The Valparaiso Beacons Fan Zone Forum

Not hearing any intel in STL.

If you know the whereabouts of Paul the next 3 days, this thread is open.

There has to be a change. Truly unbelievable that they've allowed this to continue this long

11-21 with a weak schedule. Except for cash, how can you not expect a change?

Guessing at what kind of guy Matt is, I'd place a (very - hell I'm retired) small wager that he will negotiate a resignation package favorable to Valpo's financial situation that keeps his family afloat while he pursues an assistant job at an established D-I program.  I'm sure he could get a good DII or DIII HC job, but he needs more learning.

No one can criticize his values and integrity. He just wasn't ready and was continually faced with distractions and crap that had a lot to do with his restricted growth progressions. Not excusing stuff, but this whole thing had the hint of a cluster from the outset.  It is dismaying.

62, on that note, I would point out that most agree that there is no nefarious or scandalous issue at hand, and we should be thankful for that.  So, things could be worse.  Valpo could be in a pre-Drew Baylor situation or a Pitino - Louisville situation, or be in a situation where sanctions are imminent.  VU's only problem is deterioration.  Character and integrity of the program is still intact.  We can thank the current staff for being a good caretaker of that.

Simply pointing out that Matt has done a good job in some respects, and should lauded for that.   

I posted these sentiments on another thread; however, they equally apply here:

Another Thursday Arch Madness game. This time, however, against a team that's beaten you 2x (both of which went down to the wire). One of which was a mere matter of days ago. We cannot blame the loss on Valpo having a quick turnaround compared to their opponent since they played each other the last time out. This time around, however, it's an absolute blowout. What an embarrassing way to finish. And, we cannot continue chalking the losses to Murray State up to their former NBA talent. The key word is "former" ... there's no Ja Morant on this team. We didn't even have our band there. We're a shell of a program. A bottom feeder in the valley. Not even competitive tonight against a 7 seed. 28 point loss where Murray State cleared the bench down the stretch. A team that's 17-14. 3 of the 17 wins, by the way, are v. Valpo. Take Valpo out of the equation and they're a 14-14 team. 25 pts in the 1st half & 25 pts in the 2nd half. To a team that's in its first year as a member of the Valley ... playing in its first game of Arch Madness.

Valpo comes to a close with an 11-21 record on the season.

How much worse can it get?

The problem is that it can get much worse.  It may get worse if something is not done to change course.

VU could drop to single digit wins with a still-declining enrollment.  The problem will be harder to correct then.

The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again, thinking that another result will come.

Don't forget, out of the 11 wins, two were non-Division I. So the record is really 9-21.

Quote from: 4throwfan on March 02, 2023, 08:59:26 PM
62, on that note, I would point out that most agree that there is no nefarious or scandalous issue at hand, and we should be thankful for that.  So, things could be worse.  Valpo could be in a pre-Drew Baylor situation or a Pitino - Louisville situation, or be in a situation where sanctions are imminent.  VU's only problem is deterioration.  Character and integrity of the program is still intact.  We can thank the current staff for being a good caretaker of that.

Simply pointing out that Matt has done a good job in some respects, and should lauded for that.

Absolutely. I didn't realize that my words were dissing him. I have great respect for Matt the person.  I am merely saying that he needs to gain more varied experiences to reach his potential. And I, like many on this board, are rooting for him. But he, himself, has got to get out of Valpo, wipe his own slate clean and move on.

Apologies, didn't mean to insinuate that you were dissing.  Rather, I was agreeing with you.

This is the lowest moment of the program's history since some time before guys like Redmon, Schmidt, and Barker donned a VU jersey. And it could get worse.

But sometimes it takes a defeat this resounding to remove any uncertainty about the need for a change. I don't know how it happens or when it happens, but if there are any doubts, maybe someone can put together a highlight reel of that 2 for 23 shooting performance from three-point land. Wow.

TALK

President Padilla:

"We have to be bold and lean into these challenges.  Part of that is capitalizing on our strengths, which include our strong national brand in basketball.  But as you know, we haven't lived up recently to the legacy of Homer and Bryce Drew.  We're going to have to get much better in that area".

Interview with D1 Ticker: 3/21/22

Q: "How much of a priority is it to you that we get back to the level of success that we've had in the past?"
A: "It is a large priority for me. Because first of all I know what we are capable of doing. ...We punch above our weight and we can continue to do that.  We are gonna have to do a better job of it.
You know, I give all the credit in the world to coach Lottich and what he's done, but the bottom line is that we have to live up to our legacy. And to do that we are going to have to be much more competitive on the basketball floor. So it's very important to me. You know, we're not going to do it all costs of course. But again, I want us to be in situation where somebody will suffer if they ever take us for granted on the basketball court.....  Steph, ...it's always good to be interviewed by a Latina."


ACTION:

None to date.

Wonder if the 24 hour rule is in place on announcing something.

You have to think the quicker you announce something, either way, the better.

No way these discussions or plans, either way, are not waiting for the ok to hit the send button.   

Quote from: Chairback on March 03, 2023, 11:44:15 AM
Wonder if the 24 hour rule is in place on announcing something.

You have to think the quicker you announce something, either way, the better.

No way these discussions or plans, either way, are not waiting for the ok to hit the send button.   

The phrase "just rip off the band-aid" comes to mind. Although I did vote No above.

(https://i.chzbgr.com/full/9619740672/h4E7460A7/nope-not-gonna-happen-today)

Quote from: VULB#62 on March 02, 2023, 08:23:20 PMGuessing at what kind of guy Matt is, I'd place a (very - hell I'm retired) small wager that he will negotiate a resignation package favorable to Valpo's financial situation that keeps his family afloat while he pursues an assistant job at an established D-I program.  I'm sure he could get a good DII or DIII HC job, but he needs more learning. No one can criticize his values and integrity. He just wasn't ready and was continually faced with distractions and crap that had a lot to do with his restricted growth progressions. Not excusing stuff, but this whole thing had the hint of a cluster from the outset.  It is dismaying.

I've seen the "Matt's a nice guy so he'll play along with Valpo" scenario brought up from a few posters. No offense to anyone but I think this is complete nonsense. As a coach he better be a very competitive person and thus in his mind feel that he can improve the situation. If he doesn't, he's in the wrong field. He doesn't owe it to anyone to do anything but accept what is coming to him. If the school was foolish enough to negotiate a contract that did not explore a downside, then they are the fools who have to deal with it.

If the school can't afford the coaching change then they shouldn't be in the business of providing the sport in the first place. It's all part of the game.

Quote from: Chairback on March 03, 2023, 11:44:15 AMWonder if the 24 hour rule is in place on announcing something. You have to think the quicker you announce something, either way, the better. No way these discussions or plans, either way, are not waiting for the ok to hit the send button.

Isn't there a weather issue in Valpo today? There was something about it on social media. That could affect an announcement.

If there is a change, there will probably be a simple statement released. I wouldn't anticipate a press conference until a new coach is named. So any announcement could come almost at any time. My guess would be Monday if it comes.

If he's staying, there will be no announcement at all. We'll get an interview with Brandon which will touch on whatever positives Lottich can come up with. There will be an interview with Paul which will probably have a little bit more sass to it. Then we move into next year.

Quote from: 4throwfan on March 02, 2023, 08:59:26 PM
62, on that note, I would point out that most agree that there is no nefarious or scandalous issue at hand, and we should be thankful for that.  So, things could be worse.  Valpo could be in a pre-Drew Baylor situation or a Pitino - Louisville situation, or be in a situation where sanctions are imminent.  VU's only problem is deterioration.  Character and integrity of the program is still intact.  We can thank the current staff for being a good caretaker of that.

Simply pointing out that Matt has done a good job in some respects, and should lauded for that.   

While I agree with you, let's not act like Dave Bliss Baylor situations are exactly common. Lottich isn't breaking rules, which is a bare minimum expectation.

Quote from: JD24 on March 03, 2023, 01:53:08 PMIf the school can't afford the coaching change then they shouldn't be in the business of providing the sport in the first place. It's all part of the game.

I'm afraid Valpo is getting periously close to having to abandon athletics altogether. The administration could still save the athletics programs.

Brass tax:

Lottich is staying, Valpo has dropped sports. The major investment into Bball as the marquee sport has not worked and is not sustainable.

Need to find equilibrium for student cost / enrollment quick.

I think Valpo. (As said in many a forums). Should find where they are profiting most and quadruple down on that.

Might not be bball, not saying it's football either. If it's Engineering! Let's load up the Engineering school and get as many future alums into it as possible

I'm sorry but a slump of 5 years and people here are saying we need to abandon athletics or aren't a real d1 team if we don't do X right away? It sucks right now but we may be extrapolating just a bit.

You can be mad about it and demand better but some of you all need to step away from the board and reorient yourself for a bit.

Quote from: crusader05 on March 03, 2023, 03:57:44 PMI'm sorry but a slump of 5 years and people here are saying we need to abandon athletics or aren't a real d1 team if we don't do X right away? It sucks right now but we may be extrapolating just a bit. You can be mad about it and demand better but some of you all need to step away from the board and reorient yourself for a bit.

I'm quite oriented and the general feeling seems to be not that a slump should have the school abandon athletics, it is not having the ability to rectify the situation financially which should give us pause as to what's really happening here.

Is the university really in that bad of financial shape? I mean I've read it on the board, but if the school is squabbling over 300-400k to buyout a basketball coach, then the entire university has to be in very deep trouble financially. Don't get me wrong 300-400k is a lot but to a university it shouldn't make or break it. If they can't afford to do that, then I won't be surprised if the whole place is closed within 5 years. Between the law school debacle, ridiculous mascot/name change, basketball in the dumps, they aren't really doing much to change the course.

I think the school would be able to swallow the funds whether it liked it or not, I think the issue would be the optics with the selling of the paintings even though it's two really separate matters.

Whether they choose to is different though. We all have decided that X decision means Y. But that's just an opinion and an arbitrary line in the sand we are drawing. If in 2 years Lottich is replaced and we start winning again and a new arena is being fundraised for per the strategic plan what would that mean?

So much anger and disappointment right now. It's been a fall from the Rowdy, Buggs, Kenny and Peters years. Seems to be consensus on the pink elephant in the room right now. The real question, will PO get the breaking news first or Jeff Goodman?
The president and AD is in tough position right now. The university has had to let go a lot of top notch professors (law school as well) not making nearly the same coin as the basketball coach. However basketball is one of the most marketable things the university has. The revenue comes back with more butts in seats consistently. Would justify a change. With a misstep and hire the wrong person. Yikes
A successful sweet 16 run/team has if I'm not mistaken boosts applications, enrollment. See George Mason, St. Peters etc. Didn't the Valpo sweet 16 team boost enrollment at VU?

The doom and gloom here reflects how the sharp decline of the MBB program and some genuine challenges facing VU have dovetailed. However, other than the immediate $$$ question of whether Valpo can afford to buy out its current HC, the issues can be somewhat distinguished and compartmentalized.

Overall, I think that avoiding rash decisions is important right now. Like people, institutions can make bad decisions under the spotlight of stress and anxiety.

So....for the MBB coach decision, I don't think that silence on Monday, or Wednesday, or next Friday, is necessarily a bad thing. If folks need a short bit of time to assess, that's OK. If negotiations are taking place, they can easily eat up a week.

Crusader05 - a change needs to be made as the coach is not successful. Almost every division 1 basketball program would remove their coach is they have proven to be successful after a sufficient period. If we are cash strapped in a situation like this, then we are not cut out for Div. 1 basketball. Unless ML shows promise and should not be removed - but I hear the crickets for that.

Quote from: David81 on March 03, 2023, 07:32:52 PMSo....for the MBB coach decision, I don't think that silence on Monday, or Wednesday, or next Friday, is necessarily a bad thing. If folks need a short bit of time to assess, that's OK. If negotiations are taking place, they can easily eat up a week.

I kind of agree but I wouldn't do this in complete silence. Let it drift out that discussions with players, coaches, and administrators are going on behind every closed door. Add that the future course of Valpo basketball is the topic. While we try to interpret the meaningless double-talk they get their extra week to sort out their mess.  ;)  Meanwhile we can try to keep our minds from turning to jello by interacting on this forum.

What's there left to assess? Why would they need more time so as not to act emotionally? It's not like this hasn't been a year-over-year problem that's yet to provide tangible evidence of there being sustained growth or improvement. They're not progressing nicely in any way, shape, or fashion.

I think that if Matt is out it will be announced by the end of next week. If we hear nothing by then I expect he will serve out his contract, and we will continue to suck until it ends. We are close but haven't quite hit bottom yet. If they were serious about letting Matt go, they would have worked out how to go about it already.  Give it a week to work out the details, then announce it.  Personally I will be surprised if they were to bite the bullet and buy out his contract given the university's financial situation, but I expect we will find out relatively quickly.   With Matt if Krikke and King come back we might win 10 games next year. If one or the other don't, I think the high side could be 4 or five wins.  Then we will have hit rock bottom.  With a new coach, who knows, but I'm afraid we will have to see rock bottom before we see a change.

Quote from: Dr. T on March 03, 2023, 09:26:18 PM
What's there left to assess? Why would they need more time so as not to act emotionally? It's not like this hasn't been a year-over-year problem that's yet to provide tangible evidence of there being sustained growth or improvement. They're not progressing nicely in any way, shape, or fashion.

Were it not for the controversy over the art sales, a coaching buyout might not be as dicey a situation. But to say you can afford to pay a terminated coach the equivalent of a small academic department's worth of faculty salaries for one or two years, while claiming that (1) layoffs and pay cuts were necessary; and (2) you have to sell the art museum's most valuable works to pay for capital improvements, isn't a very good look to already demoralized faculty and staff, in particular. So...responses from all major constituencies need to evaluated before making a final decision.

And let's not overlook that if a change is in the offing, Matt Lottich may need a few days to talk with family, review/negotiate terms, and possibly meet with an attorney/financial/tax advisor to ensure that i's are dotted and t's are crossed, etc. Even if his best efforts fell short of the mark, he deserves to be treated with basic courtesy.

Quote from: nkvu on March 04, 2023, 12:34:25 AMWith Matt if Krikke and King come back we might win 10 games next year. If one or the other don't, I think the high side could be 4 or five wins.  Then we will have hit rock bottom.  With a new coach, who knows, but I'm afraid we will have to see rock bottom before we see a change.

As a VU basketball fan I don't have an unbroken bone left in my body. But that is fine because our ER administrators are about to assure me that I can be admitted and treated just as soon as the old janitorial contracts expire. As a near lifeless gob of jello, I'm feeling better already.  :)

Valpo is trying to stay afloat by selling artwork. How much impact does this really have on faculty morale?
- does Valpo need upgrades on residential facilities to remain competitive?
- does Valpo need to pay competitive salaries to faculty members?
- how important is the flagship athletic program at Valpo? If it is, how do we address it?
- what is the importance of Valpo providing degrees in art, theatre and creative writing to a selective few?
- should Valpo focus on strengths and double down on those instead of trying to meet everyone's needs?
-  if Valpo cannot grow or even sustain operations, what is the purpose of keeping art?

Time to prioritize gang. And BTW, to the theatre and creative writing majors marching to the presidents office over the possible art sale, there's nothing negative about being portrayed as a tech school. MIT is a technical school, and they also have outstanding humanities education.

I really hate to be this person especially since I understand and respect the reasoning behind the rebranding and the mascot change but if our financial situation was THAT dire then why in God's name did we spend all that money on the rebranding when we could have spent it to actually hire a decent coach and potentially advance the program and the university forward in ways that would have a greater impact than the rebranding? It was just such short-sighted thinking to do it now even if it is right or justifiable on principle.

USC4Valpo

Yes I think at this point if it's really that bad the only way forward is to either double down on Valpo's strengths and pour money into those or to try to replicate what Gonzaga did insofar as that is even possible. Or both if it is somehow possible to do both. One route is significantly more risky than the other. As a risk averse person I know the route I would choose. It just sucks that we really are what many MVC fans feared: another Evansville who coincidentally is facing many of the same problems but to their credit still hasn't lost community support. I also hate how we jeopardized the long-term health of the program for a one year shot at short term gain by hiring Matt in the first place instead of actually trying to find the best candidate for the job but I guess I understand it and what's done is done anyway.

1314 - the student president at the time was woke, thus the loud voice and the result. I am not sure how much money it cost to rebrand, but this topic was well reviewed in the recent South Park episode with the Prince and Meagan Markle and the Worldwide Privacy Tour.

I'm a big fan of Strength Finders where you place your energy on what you are good at and make it even better.

Quote from: David81 on March 04, 2023, 01:06:27 AMSo...responses from all major constituencies need to evaluated before making a final decision. And let's not overlook that if a change is in the offing, Matt Lottich may need a few days to talk with family, review/negotiate terms, and possibly meet with an attorney/financial/tax advisor to ensure that i's are dotted and t's are crossed, etc. Even if his best efforts fell short of the mark, he deserves to be treated with basic courtesy.

I really don't get what the issue(s) is/are here. There's no need or should be no need to evaluate the situation currently. The Prez and AD have had a season's worth of games and prior year video if desired to view to come to a conclusion about the head coach's future. The decision should have been made certainly prior to this week and probably some weeks or months back. If the decision wasn't made prior to now then the problem is far larger than anyone on this board can come up with. That goes for keeping him or letting him go.

If he's being let go, then let him go. This is done in the sports world all the time. Why Matt Lottich has to be treated with kid gloves because he seems to be a nice guy with a family I have no idea. If the choice is to fire him, let him know and the lawyers can do their thing. Even a "mutually agreed to part ways" discussion can happen in 10 mins with a negotiation afterwards.

This isn't difficult.

JD24 - Boom and bang on. A change should not be shocking, all parties know where this storm has been heading. Show some strength and move on for all parties.

As sanguine as the head coach has been during the season, he is a Stanford grad, so he's a reasonably bright guy, one would expect. I think he's aware of the teams performance and would understand in most professions, that your job is in jeopardy if you're not meeting expectations. He will be called into the principals office Monday or Tuesday if something were to happen.

Quote from: AB on March 04, 2023, 10:10:12 AM
As sanguine as the head coach has been during the season, he is a Stanford grad, so he's a reasonably bright guy, one would expect. I think he's aware of the teams performance and would understand in most professions, that your job is in jeopardy if you're not meeting expectations. He will be called into the principals office Monday or Tuesday if something were to happen.

Can we get the principals office bugged before he returns from St Louis?    My treat.

Quote from: usc4valpo on March 04, 2023, 07:40:28 AM
Valpo is trying to stay afloat by selling artwork. How much impact does this really have on faculty morale?
- does Valpo need upgrades on residential facilities to remain competitive?
- does Valpo need to pay competitive salaries to faculty members?
- how important is the flagship athletic program at Valpo? If it is, how do we address it?
- what is the importance of Valpo providing degrees in art, theatre and creative writing to a selective few?
- should Valpo focus on strengths and double down on those instead of trying to meet everyone's needs?
-  if Valpo cannot grow or even sustain operations, what is the purpose of keeping art?

Time to prioritize gang. And BTW, to the theatre and creative writing majors marching to the presidents office over the possible art sale, there's nothing negative about being portrayed as a tech school. MIT is a technical school, and they also have outstanding humanities education.

Even MIT recognizes the importance of the arts: 

https://arts.mit.edu/

Quote from: JD24 on March 04, 2023, 09:42:39 AM

Quote from: David81 on March 04, 2023, 01:06:27 AMSo...responses from all major constituencies need to evaluated before making a final decision. And let's not overlook that if a change is in the offing, Matt Lottich may need a few days to talk with family, review/negotiate terms, and possibly meet with an attorney/financial/tax advisor to ensure that i's are dotted and t's are crossed, etc. Even if his best efforts fell short of the mark, he deserves to be treated with basic courtesy.

I really don't get what the issue(s) is/are here. There's no need or should be no need to evaluate the situation currently. The Prez and AD have had a season's worth of games and prior year video if desired to view to come to a conclusion about the head coach's future. The decision should have been made certainly prior to this week and probably some weeks or months back. If the decision wasn't made prior to now then the problem is far larger than anyone on this board can come up with. That goes for keeping him or letting him go.

If he's being let go, then let him go. This is done in the sports world all the time. Why Matt Lottich has to be treated with kid gloves because he seems to be a nice guy with a family I have no idea. If the choice is to fire him, let him know and the lawyers can do their thing. Even a "mutually agreed to part ways" discussion can happen in 10 mins with a negotiation afterwards.

This isn't difficult.

Actually, it can get very difficult when an agreement in principle falls apart before everyone signs on the dotted line. If conditions still need to be negotiated, that can easily happen. And because VU cannot afford to assume anything absent a signed agreement (given that upwards of $750-800k in contract obligations are at stake), no one with any intelligence is going to share anything publicly until everything is finalized, even if fans like us are impatient for decisive news.

For the sake of understanding why some who oppose the art sale are so deeply passionate about it, it may be instructive to observe how many people on this board are still upset about the mascot change. Both topics have quickly become matters of both substance and symbol. If you can see that, then you can understand how this art sale will likely create a breach with otherwise loyal VU denizens that will endure for years, maybe permanently.

(For the sake of transparency, I was fairly agnostic on the mascot change. I keep in touch with a good number of fellow VU alums, and it wasn't a big deal for any of us. When it comes to making VU a more inclusive place, the mascot change is not the hill I'd be willing to die on to make some statement on diversity.)

And if folks can downplay the importance of the humanities and creative & performing arts to a university like VU and suggest that these majors should be eliminated because they're not sufficiently ROI viable, then you can understand why others may believe that VU should drop its D1 status because it's getting too expensive to compete successfully in the new ROI-type environment for top college-bound players. Hey, the ARC may be a disincentive for D1 recruits, but it works fine for D3 recruits -- and a drop to D3 probably means that millions of $$$ otherwise earmarked for a new/gut rehabbed sports facility can be diverted to creating (drum roll) better residence halls.

But all of this, coming from different constituencies of the University, eventually creates deep divisions and becomes a race to the bottom, to the point where the eventual "winner" is like the Black Knight in the Monty Python movie. VU's future as a fulsome university, albeit precariously balancing legitimate if not harmonious interests, as opposed to a severely and continually diminished one, is on the line right now.

Quote from: David81 on March 04, 2023, 01:09:46 PM

Quote from: JD24 on March 04, 2023, 09:42:39 AM

Quote from: David81 on March 04, 2023, 01:06:27 AMSo...responses from all major constituencies need to evaluated before making a final decision. And let's not overlook that if a change is in the offing, Matt Lottich may need a few days to talk with family, review/negotiate terms, and possibly meet with an attorney/financial/tax advisor to ensure that i's are dotted and t's are crossed, etc. Even if his best efforts fell short of the mark, he deserves to be treated with basic courtesy.

I really don't get what the issue(s) is/are here. There's no need or should be no need to evaluate the situation currently. The Prez and AD have had a season's worth of games and prior year video if desired to view to come to a conclusion about the head coach's future. The decision should have been made certainly prior to this week and probably some weeks or months back. If the decision wasn't made prior to now then the problem is far larger than anyone on this board can come up with. That goes for keeping him or letting him go. If he's being let go, then let him go. This is done in the sports world all the time. Why Matt Lottich has to be treated with kid gloves because he seems to be a nice guy with a family I have no idea. If the choice is to fire him, let him know and the lawyers can do their thing. Even a "mutually agreed to part ways" discussion can happen in 10 mins with a negotiation afterwards. This isn't difficult.

Actually, it can get very difficult when an agreement in principle falls apart before everyone signs on the dotted line. If conditions still need to be negotiated, that can easily happen. And because VU cannot afford to assume anything absent a signed agreement (given that upwards of $750-800k in contract obligations are at stake), no one with any intelligence is going to share anything publicly until everything is finalized, even if fans like us are impatient for decisive news.

So seemingly every other sports entity whether pro or collegiate can get through a coaching change effectively, decisively and quickly but Valpo has to tip-toe through the tulips to get something done. If this is the case, and I really doubt it is, then there's a high degree of ineptitude within the walls of the school.

Quote from: JD24 on March 04, 2023, 02:35:22 PM

Quote from: David81 on March 04, 2023, 01:09:46 PM

Quote from: JD24 on March 04, 2023, 09:42:39 AM

Quote from: David81 on March 04, 2023, 01:06:27 AMSo...responses from all major constituencies need to evaluated before making a final decision. And let's not overlook that if a change is in the offing, Matt Lottich may need a few days to talk with family, review/negotiate terms, and possibly meet with an attorney/financial/tax advisor to ensure that i's are dotted and t's are crossed, etc. Even if his best efforts fell short of the mark, he deserves to be treated with basic courtesy.

I really don't get what the issue(s) is/are here. There's no need or should be no need to evaluate the situation currently. The Prez and AD have had a season's worth of games and prior year video if desired to view to come to a conclusion about the head coach's future. The decision should have been made certainly prior to this week and probably some weeks or months back. If the decision wasn't made prior to now then the problem is far larger than anyone on this board can come up with. That goes for keeping him or letting him go. If he's being let go, then let him go. This is done in the sports world all the time. Why Matt Lottich has to be treated with kid gloves because he seems to be a nice guy with a family I have no idea. If the choice is to fire him, let him know and the lawyers can do their thing. Even a "mutually agreed to part ways" discussion can happen in 10 mins with a negotiation afterwards. This isn't difficult.

Actually, it can get very difficult when an agreement in principle falls apart before everyone signs on the dotted line. If conditions still need to be negotiated, that can easily happen. And because VU cannot afford to assume anything absent a signed agreement (given that upwards of $750-800k in contract obligations are at stake), no one with any intelligence is going to share anything publicly until everything is finalized, even if fans like us are impatient for decisive news.

So seemingly every other sports entity whether pro or collegiate can get through a coaching change effectively, decisively and quickly but Valpo has to tip-toe through the tulips to get something done. If this is the case, and I really doubt it is, then there's a high degree of ineptitude within the walls of the school.

If VU had easy money to cover the remainder of Coach Lottich's contract, the decision might've been announced yesterday. But it does not, and as I explained above, there are now intersecting optics with the controversy over the proposed art sale. In any event, assuming VU is going in this direction, negotiations may very well be underway to announce a coaching departure. We're very likely talking days, not months, to close out one chapter correctly, in order to clear the way for the much bigger challenge of finding the right new HC.

So if that's what you mean by doing a "tip toe through the tulips," then I guess we can cue up the music.  :) YouTube link for those who want the Tiny Tim version:
https://youtu.be/zcSlcNfThUA (https://youtu.be/zcSlcNfThUA)

If Valpo has made up their mind to dismiss Coach Lottich, it would be appropriate to wait until one or a few days after the MVC tournament ends. Nothing lost by waiting a few more days.

Quote from: David81 on March 04, 2023, 05:02:49 PM

Quote from: JD24 on March 04, 2023, 02:35:22 PM

Quote from: David81 on March 04, 2023, 01:09:46 PM

Quote from: JD24 on March 04, 2023, 09:42:39 AM

Quote from: David81 on March 04, 2023, 01:06:27 AMSo...responses from all major constituencies need to evaluated before making a final decision. And let's not overlook that if a change is in the offing, Matt Lottich may need a few days to talk with family, review/negotiate terms, and possibly meet with an attorney/financial/tax advisor to ensure that i's are dotted and t's are crossed, etc. Even if his best efforts fell short of the mark, he deserves to be treated with basic courtesy.

I really don't get what the issue(s) is/are here. There's no need or should be no need to evaluate the situation currently. The Prez and AD have had a season's worth of games and prior year video if desired to view to come to a conclusion about the head coach's future. The decision should have been made certainly prior to this week and probably some weeks or months back. If the decision wasn't made prior to now then the problem is far larger than anyone on this board can come up with. That goes for keeping him or letting him go. If he's being let go, then let him go. This is done in the sports world all the time. Why Matt Lottich has to be treated with kid gloves because he seems to be a nice guy with a family I have no idea. If the choice is to fire him, let him know and the lawyers can do their thing. Even a "mutually agreed to part ways" discussion can happen in 10 mins with a negotiation afterwards. This isn't difficult.

Actually, it can get very difficult when an agreement in principle falls apart before everyone signs on the dotted line. If conditions still need to be negotiated, that can easily happen. And because VU cannot afford to assume anything absent a signed agreement (given that upwards of $750-800k in contract obligations are at stake), no one with any intelligence is going to share anything publicly until everything is finalized, even if fans like us are impatient for decisive news.

So seemingly every other sports entity whether pro or collegiate can get through a coaching change effectively, decisively and quickly but Valpo has to tip-toe through the tulips to get something done. If this is the case, and I really doubt it is, then there's a high degree of ineptitude within the walls of the school.

If VU had easy money to cover the remainder of Coach Lottich's contract, the decision might've been announced yesterday. But it does not, and as I explained above, there are now intersecting optics with the controversy over the proposed art sale. In any event, assuming VU is going in this direction, negotiations may very well be underway to announce a coaching departure. We're very likely talking days, not months, to close out one chapter correctly, in order to clear the way for the much bigger challenge of finding the right new HC.

So if that's what you mean by doing a "tip toe through the tulips," then I guess we can cue up the music.  :) YouTube link for those who want the Tiny Tim version:
https://youtu.be/zcSlcNfThUA (https://youtu.be/zcSlcNfThUA)

"Negotiations may very well be underway..." Negotiating with whom, David? Are you referring to contract negotiations with a new coach? Are you speculating? Do you know something?

Quote from: wh on March 04, 2023, 07:21:24 PM

Quote from: David81 on March 04, 2023, 05:02:49 PM

Quote from: JD24 on March 04, 2023, 02:35:22 PM

Quote from: David81 on March 04, 2023, 01:09:46 PM

Quote from: JD24 on March 04, 2023, 09:42:39 AM

Quote from: David81 on March 04, 2023, 01:06:27 AMSo...responses from all major constituencies need to evaluated before making a final decision. And let's not overlook that if a change is in the offing, Matt Lottich may need a few days to talk with family, review/negotiate terms, and possibly meet with an attorney/financial/tax advisor to ensure that i's are dotted and t's are crossed, etc. Even if his best efforts fell short of the mark, he deserves to be treated with basic courtesy.

I really don't get what the issue(s) is/are here. There's no need or should be no need to evaluate the situation currently. The Prez and AD have had a season's worth of games and prior year video if desired to view to come to a conclusion about the head coach's future. The decision should have been made certainly prior to this week and probably some weeks or months back. If the decision wasn't made prior to now then the problem is far larger than anyone on this board can come up with. That goes for keeping him or letting him go. If he's being let go, then let him go. This is done in the sports world all the time. Why Matt Lottich has to be treated with kid gloves because he seems to be a nice guy with a family I have no idea. If the choice is to fire him, let him know and the lawyers can do their thing. Even a "mutually agreed to part ways" discussion can happen in 10 mins with a negotiation afterwards. This isn't difficult.

Actually, it can get very difficult when an agreement in principle falls apart before everyone signs on the dotted line. If conditions still need to be negotiated, that can easily happen. And because VU cannot afford to assume anything absent a signed agreement (given that upwards of $750-800k in contract obligations are at stake), no one with any intelligence is going to share anything publicly until everything is finalized, even if fans like us are impatient for decisive news.

So seemingly every other sports entity whether pro or collegiate can get through a coaching change effectively, decisively and quickly but Valpo has to tip-toe through the tulips to get something done. If this is the case, and I really doubt it is, then there's a high degree of ineptitude within the walls of the school.

If VU had easy money to cover the remainder of Coach Lottich's contract, the decision might've been announced yesterday. But it does not, and as I explained above, there are now intersecting optics with the controversy over the proposed art sale. In any event, assuming VU is going in this direction, negotiations may very well be underway to announce a coaching departure. We're very likely talking days, not months, to close out one chapter correctly, in order to clear the way for the much bigger challenge of finding the right new HC.

So if that's what you mean by doing a "tip toe through the tulips," then I guess we can cue up the music.  :) YouTube link for those who want the Tiny Tim version:
https://youtu.be/zcSlcNfThUA (https://youtu.be/zcSlcNfThUA)

"Negotiations may very well be underway..." Negotiating with whom, David? Are you referring to contract negotiations with a new coach? Are you speculating? Do you know something?

:lol: :lol: :lol: I assure you that I'm about as "outsider" as one can be. I'm in Boston and the closest thing I have to inside info is The Victory Bell, which I highly recommend, btw.

I'm talking about a severance agreement. Those are often negotiated, especially when the incumbent has a reported 2 more years to go on his contract.

As for a new coach, I can't imagine they're even close to that decision, unless something has been in the works and miraculously nothing leaked.

Doesn't the AD sit down each year with the HC to set performance goals for improvement? If so, I'm guessing Lottich is not meeting those goals. Hasn't been for years in my view. Fireable offense.

Both men's and women's programs are awful
Ask the former president and AD to help pay off contracts since they were the ones who created this debacle.   

"Austin Peay has parted ways with head coach Nate James, source told @stadium . The former Duke assistant was 21-39 in two seasons at the helm.


https://www.tennessean.com/story/sports/college/apsu/2023/03/05/nate-james-fired-austin-peay-mens-basketball-asun-duke/69975019007/

There is no mention of the length of Nate James' contract but my guess is he probably only had a two year contract at Austin Peay because there is no mention of having to buy out any years on a contract.

It is very rare a D1 coach is hired without a 4-year contract. You could all but guarantee that APSU coachhad 4 years.

Quote from: historyman on March 06, 2023, 06:26:38 AM
"Austin Peay has parted ways with head coach Nate James, source told @stadium . The former Duke assistant was 21-39 in two seasons at the helm.


https://www.tennessean.com/story/sports/college/apsu/2023/03/05/nate-james-fired-austin-peay-mens-basketball-asun-duke/69975019007/

There is no mention of the length of Nate James' contract but my guess is he probably only had a two year contract at Austin Peay because there is no mention of having to buy out any years on a contract.

"Apr 6, 2021 — James will make $295,000 for the first two years of a five-year contract. That will be bumped to $300,000 in Year 3 and $310,000 in years four and five."

Can someone let Dot know that some Mid Majors fire coaches after two years..seven is more than fair.

Quote from: wh on March 06, 2023, 08:22:00 AM

Quote from: historyman on March 06, 2023, 06:26:38 AM
"Austin Peay has parted ways with head coach Nate James, source told @stadium . The former Duke assistant was 21-39 in two seasons at the helm.


https://www.tennessean.com/story/sports/college/apsu/2023/03/05/nate-james-fired-austin-peay-mens-basketball-asun-duke/69975019007/

There is no mention of the length of Nate James' contract but my guess is he probably only had a two year contract at Austin Peay because there is no mention of having to buy out any years on a contract.

"Apr 6, 2021 — James will make $295,000 for the first two years of a five-year contract. That will be bumped to $300,000 in Year 3 and $310,000 in years four and five."

It appears that APU will be paying James $650,000 to buy out his contract.

Termination Without Cause: In the event of termination without cause, the University shall pay Coach James the remaining value of his contract if terminated between 3/22/21 and 6/30/2022. If terminated between 7/1/2022 and 6/30/2023 the University shall pay Coach James $650,000. If terminated between 7/1/2023 and 6/30/2024 the University shall pay Coach James $400,000 and if terminated between 7/1/2024 and 4/30/2025 the University shall pay Coach James $300,000 and if terminated between 7/1/2025 and 4/30/2026 the remaining base salary value on the contract at time of termination. This will be payable over a 24-month period subject to applicable taxes.

Termination for Cause: If terminated for cause, Coach James shall be entitled to receive compensation through the last day of the calendar month in which his employment terminates.

https://html.scribdassets.com/56t60u7yyo8ne26j/images/5-f56af6225b.jpg

Anyone have any compromising pictures of Coach Lottich? Maybe making an angry face during a kids soccer game or something sinister such as that?

When will we hear something?

I highly recommend everyone read Paul's latest TVB:  A Way Too Early Look at 2023-24 Valpo Men's Basketball.

His assessment about both Lotich's and Krikke's presence or non-presence weighs heavily in the maneuvering that could be taking place involving Smart and Padilla, and also he prudently spotlights the Final Four as probably the key point in time for anything that might happen with respect to a coaching change. So inquiring minds should probably drink a shot of patience — for now.

But you have to read his full take on that (as well as how the transfer portal operates) to get the full impact of the story.

Most schools seem to make a change at the conclusion of the season
Why wait till the final 4?
Just seems as though we will be status quo with coaches.
Really doesn't matter - so few people really care anymore it's not a big deal

The annual national coaches' convention is during the Final Four. Until a few years ago, that was traditionally where a lot of hiring of new coaches went on, since all of the ADs agents, and coaches are in one spot and interviews can take place in private conference rooms or hotel suites (or heck even out in the open) without anyone thinking much of it, since everyone is socializing with one another. That doesn't make sense to wait to relieve a coach of his duties until then, though.

Making my annual visit to say a couple of things...

1. The fiscal issues facing the university are 100% NOT an excuse to continue on our current path with the current HC. If you somehow have basketball reasons (that nobody else is seeing) to keep Lottich and his staff in place, fine, tell us them so we can agree or disagree. But Division 1 schools do not let their LONE revenue sport, and one that was a signature attraction to the university, languish because of financial issues further up the chain. Doesn't happen. Can't happen. Further, it's self-defeating. It'd be like the university stopping spending on marketing or advertising until all of the fiscal issues are resolved--you damage your enrollment worse than you do by spending that money. Athletics are marketing for VU, like it or not, and they need to be tended as such. Find the damn money, amortize the buyout, do what you have to do here. Basketball isn't the university nor what makes it, but it is the front porch of the university, and if the front porch is in disrepair, people tend to think the house is as well.

2. This is also an area where the university's traditional lack of engaging the town in fundraising efforts is hurting them. The most successful institutions don't just focus on alumni giving, but philanthropy from friends, supporters and corporations in the communities they call home. Valpo is an affluent city, and the university has not emphasized a sense of ownership/connection with local residents who might be inclined to financially support the university in their hometown. That needs to change, no matter the coaching decision.

3. It's WELL past time for some creative thinking on the part of the university regarding the facilities they've been promising to upgrade (but haven't lifted a finger on) for nearly 20 damn years now. Because a) any new coach worth their salt will demand VU finally get off it's butt and do so and b) without said facility renovations/new arena, the long-term trajectory of this program is gonna be exactly what it is right now. If I were a MVC official or president, I'd be furious and feel lied to by Valpo. Heck, even if some of the ideas don't work out, at least TRY. Talk to the city, see if there's interest in putting a multi-use arena/entertainment facility on the old hospital property they might want to partner on. Having a facility like that within walking distance of all the downtown dining and attractions might be something the city and it's business community would interested in right now. Maybe not. But MAKE THE EFFORT AND SEE IF THEY ARE RATHER THAN DISMISSING IT AND SAYING "WE CAN'T." "We Can't" has practically become the university motto over the past decade and a half.

I don't think most people understand how perilously close we are this program is to sinking into long-term apathy like the one it was in where Tom Smith resigned. He CHOSE to leave NOT because he was about to get fired, but because as he put it, nobody cared enough to even talk about firing him! The program was directionless, nobody cared and he didn't want to continue in a losing situation. Let's not go back to that.

If finances are a concern, I see no reason why ML & Co. should be attending the Final 4 or the National Coaches Conference. If he's the coach for the next 1-2 years until his contract ends, it's not like there will be substantive changes gleaned from clinics that alter his coaching philosophy. The only reason Padilla or Small should attend is if they're in the market for a new HC! In that case, they should bring their bobbers and put some lines out there ... see what sorts of bites they can get! This would mean it must be made clear that ML is not being retained.

Quote from: Dr. T on March 06, 2023, 09:32:52 PM
If finances are a concern, I see no reason why ML & Co. should be attending the Final 4 or the National Coaches Conference. If he's the coach for the next 1-2 years until his contract ends, it's not like there will be substantive changes gleaned from clinics that alter his coaching philosophy. The only reason Padilla or Small should attend is if they're in the market for a new HC! In that case, they should bring their bobbers and put some lines out there ... see what sorts of bites they can get! This would mean it must be made clear that ML is not being retained.

The contract for ML and Co. may include paying for annual trips to the Final four or the National Coaches Conference. Or the contract may include a discretionary annual travel budget. Not saying that the contract includes these terms, but I would not be surprised if they were included.

Quote from: vu84v2 on March 06, 2023, 10:42:36 PM

Quote from: Dr. T on March 06, 2023, 09:32:52 PM
If finances are a concern, I see no reason why ML & Co. should be attending the Final 4 or the National Coaches Conference. If he's the coach for the next 1-2 years until his contract ends, it's not like there will be substantive changes gleaned from clinics that alter his coaching philosophy. The only reason Padilla or Small should attend is if they're in the market for a new HC! In that case, they should bring their bobbers and put some lines out there ... see what sorts of bites they can get! This would mean it must be made clear that ML is not being retained.

The contract for ML and Co. may include paying for annual trips to the Final four or the National Coaches Conference. Or the contract may include a discretionary annual travel budget. Not saying that the contract includes these terms, but I would not be surprised if they were included.

Pretty sure Valley holds coaches meetings at the F4 every year. I know most conferences do that from what I understand.

Waiting for the Final 4 is pointless. If those making this decision need that much more time to decide then it is they who need to be dismissed as well.

The move, if it is going to be made should have been made today. The fact that it was not has my "they're keeping him" meter at about a 90 percentile at this point.

Based on the last few responses, A 2 year buyout compared to  big picture success described by BigMoeSmith (awesome alias BTW) is petty. Do the right thing for all parties for Valpo.

Quote from: JD24 on March 06, 2023, 11:00:54 PM
Waiting for the Final 4 is pointless. If those making this decision need that much more time to decide then it is they who need to be dismissed as well.

The move, if it is going to be made should have been made today. The fact that it was not has my "they're keeping him" meter at about a 90 percentile at this point.

Agree that waiting to after the Final Four makes no sense, but it is reasonable that working this out would extend through this week (but not much further).

You guys need to go on with life. This is what is going to happen.




(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61l7gOusn0L.jpg)

(https://media.tenor.com/X755f9sHpVIAAAAC/nada-zero.gif)

(https://s3.memeshappen.com/memes/Ich-bin-Doch-NICHT-Gereizt-meme-35518.jpg)




No way, Jose!

Quote from: bigmosmithfan_2 on March 06, 2023, 09:17:17 PMThis is also an area where the university's traditional lack of engaging the town in fundraising efforts is hurting them. The most successful institutions don't just focus on alumni giving, but philanthropy from friends, supporters and corporations in the communities they call home. Valpo is an affluent city, and the university has not emphasized a sense of ownership/connection with local residents who might be inclined to financially support the university in their hometown. That needs to change, no matter the coaching decision.

3. It's WELL past time for some creative thinking on the part of the university regarding the facilities they've been promising to upgrade (but haven't lifted a finger on) for nearly 20 damn years now.

Welcome back bigmo.  A couple of things to point out as it seems you aren't following Valpo basketball as you once did.  Charles Small is the new AD and has made it very clear in his monthly AD talks that Valpo has launched an initiative with the local community to raise funds for among other things, NIL efforts.  This is going to be a key part of recruitment, especially for more highly sought after players.
As for no efforts in the last 20 years thing, remember that during that time Mark L. raised the funds to renovate Hilltop into a first rate practice facility--including air conditioning.  Is it a new arena? certainly not but, it is also well known that a feasibility assessment in under way by a Columbus, Ohio architect firm which should be available by June.  This will give the Administration choices as to whether or not a new arena is built on the hospital grounds or a major renovation is done to the ARC.  President Padilla has said publicly that he favors a new arena but we'll just have to wait a little longer to find out which direction is taken.  Remember, Padilla and Small inherited this mess, they didn't preside over it for years like others have.

Quote from: vu84v2 on March 07, 2023, 06:55:26 AM

Quote from: JD24 on March 06, 2023, 11:00:54 PMWaiting for the Final 4 is pointless. If those making this decision need that much more time to decide then it is they who need to be dismissed as well. The move, if it is going to be made should have been made today. The fact that it was not has my "they're keeping him" meter at about a 90 percentile at this point.

Agree that waiting to after the Final Four makes no sense, but it is reasonable that working this out would extend through this week (but not much further).

What's to work out? If the decision is to move on then fire him. Any negotiations with him at that point would not be affected by the termination.

Quote from: vu84v2 on March 07, 2023, 06:55:26 AM

Quote from: JD24 on March 06, 2023, 11:00:54 PM
Waiting for the Final 4 is pointless. If those making this decision need that much more time to decide then it is they who need to be dismissed as well.

The move, if it is going to be made should have been made today. The fact that it was not has my "they're keeping him" meter at about a 90 percentile at this point.

Agree that waiting to after the Final Four makes no sense, but it is reasonable that working this out would extend through this week (but not much further).

Waiting until the Final Four to fire Lottich would be nonsensical. They'd want to have some time to line up conversations prior to flying to Houston. If Lottich is still the head coach next week, I think he'll be back for another season.

For the guys holding out hope.

University isn't going to break tradition and fire a coach prematurely. They sure are not going to do it and pay an additional 690k.

Quote from: valpofb16 on March 07, 2023, 12:57:39 PM
For the guys holding out hope.

University isn't going to break tradition and fire a coach prematurely. They sure are not going to do it and pay an additional 690k.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRdfX7ut8gw

I hope I am wrong, but I really doubt that our butts in the seats revenue is that high in relation to the direct expense of  traveling D-1 teams.  Let's just guess prices and numbers at 800 chairbacks at $180 season tickets ($154,000) and 500 bleachers at 15 ($7,500.)

Direct profit/loss has been a point of contention across the country outside the Power 5 and their vast TV income. We can argue the indirect benefits to enrollment, name recognition, and loss of students who would not come to VU save for joining a team on a D-1 program. i maintain those indirect benefits are real in football vs 5 road games per year. With empty dorm rooms there really isn't a cost to offer that to the players. Fewer schools than you think generate a net profit in basketball.  I think there were 3 dozen on a list someone on this board found 4-5 years ago. Dr. Small has his work cut out for him.  A sugar daddy (or momma) may need to not only build an arena, but also underwrite some athletics annual spending until the larger VU ocean liner is turned. 

I wonder whether the school has an analysis that shows the difference in revenue, either through enrollment, ticket sales, shirt sales, TV revenue, etc., as between a winning MBB program and a losing MBB program. 

Where I'm going with this is: I wonder whether the cost of NOT making a change is greater than the sunk cost of making a change.

To be clear, I have no idea, so not suggesting one way or the other.

Quote from: 4throwfan on March 07, 2023, 03:45:01 PMI wonder whether the cost of NOT making a change is greater than the sunk cost of making a change.

My very uneducated analysis showed that over the last two year attendance has fallen an average of about 1200 per game since the last time we had a winning record.  I used an average ticket price of $20 which may or may not be accurate.  Part of the decline, no doubt, has to do with the opponent and week scheduling but if I'm even close the revenue lost over two years approaches $500,000.

Thanks, vu72, and in no way do I blame President Padilla or AD Small for this predicament that they inherited. My ire is directed at some of the other folks who led us to this point and who always kicked the can down the road, or pulled the "we don't fill the seats we have now," or "we're winning without a good facility, why do we need one?"

QuoteUniversity isn't going to break tradition and fire a coach prematurely. They sure are not going to do it and pay an additional 690k.

Tradition?! Where is this tradition? There has been one, and exactly one, coach in VU's Division I history who was in a position to be fired "prematurely." That was Homer Drew early in his career... 30+ years ago now. When the program had no resources, no investment, an unstable conference, and no fanbase. And if Homer hadn't landed two P5-level transfers from Valpo High who decided to come home from far-flung schools seeking playing time, he might well have been. Because without those two guys showing the program could turn around, Bryce almost certainly takes the scholarship offer from Jim Boeheim and is a Syracuse legend today.


The remainder of our D-1 history? Ken Rochlitz, who left on his own to go coach a JUCO in Wyoming, because that was a program with better commitment than VU at the time. Tom Smith, who resigned because no one cared enough to put him on the hot seat to go take a D-2 HC job in Missouri, where he went on to become a Hall of Famer for that university. Scott Drew, who coached one year before being hired away by Baylor. Homer, who retired as an all-time coaching legend. And Bryce, who took us to two NCAA tourneys and got hired away by a P5 school.


There is no "tradition" of not firing coaches at VU. It's one coach, who had only been year five years instead of Lottich's seven, who was given another year when he landed two big-time local transfers at a time when the university was averaging three-figure attendance and invested a fraction of the money in sports it does now. There are TWICE as many coaches who have left VU for lower-division jobs of their own volition because of the university's lack of commitment to hoops, than there are coaches who were saved by this "tradition" of not firing coaches early.


To reiterate my theme from the other night, if there is an unwritten policy that VU doesn't fire coaches before contracts are up, say that. Tell your fanbase, donors and stakeholders that.


Finally, 690K is a literal drop in the bucket for any four-year university (yes, even a "broke" one). It's an inconsequential sum for a school with VU's operating budget. It is absolutely a small investment for an athletic department one of the top-rated mid-major leagues in the country. If that is the reason given why the university can't make a change, then they should do everyone a favor and just drop to D-3 or NAIA now.

Yeah, at the end of the day I think if ML stays it's because of some desire to give him more time for some reason or another that may never be articulated to the fans OR in light of the Art Sale they may think the blowback from faculty wouldn't be worth it.

But I think the university could easily budget that money especially as next year they will not have the yearly payout for some staff and faculty that came from the early retirement incentive on the books

I just hope Valpo is transparent about their reasoning on the decision they make.

Quote from: crusader05 on March 08, 2023, 08:14:47 AM
Yeah, at the end of the day I think if ML stays it's because of some desire to give him more time for some reason or another that may never be articulated to the fans OR in light of the Art Sale they may think the blowback from faculty wouldn't be worth it.

But I think the university could easily budget that money especially as next year they will not have the yearly payout for some staff and faculty that came from the early retirement incentive on the books

I did a very quick and undoubtedly very inaccurate analysis of Valpo sports revenue and decided the gross ticket receipts coupled with two buy games from football came in around $1.4 million. When considering that about 20% of total enrollment comes from athletes, and that many of those athletes pay part or full tuition, it points out the incredible importance of athletics to the university.  Winning is really important and is reflected in the ticket sales.  For example, Volleyball, with a winning tradition, averaged 600 in attendance per contest while Woman's basketball, with a losing tradition, only drew 358 on average per game.  Football, with a program moving forward in a positive direction, drew 2147 per game including only 419 on a miserable day for the Drake game, while Men's basketball, again with a losing tradition of late, only drew 1625 per game.

The financial decision for a change can be justified on several fronts, dollars shouldn't be the issue holding back on a change.

VU72, I know the discussion is very superficial, and is not inclusive all factors.  Nonetheless, I do point out a factor that I think must also be considered.  If there is a change, the revenue recovery is not guaranteed, nor will it be immediate.  However, your thinking can possibly still be justified with a present value calculation based on projected improvement.

I'm out of my lane here, so any 'numbers guys' on the board should feel free to correct me.

the apathy of the basketball program has higher ramifications than just ticket sales. A no change decision implies that Valpo does not care about the program. That also reflects the attitude of the university that wants to promote an inclusive, homey atmosphere. A $700K buyout is crumbs compared to the bigger picture.

This decision should not be difficult.

Quote from: crusader05 on March 08, 2023, 08:14:47 AM
Yeah, at the end of the day I think if ML stays it's because of some desire to give him more time for some reason or another that may never be articulated to the fans OR in light of the Art Sale they may think the blowback from faculty wouldn't be worth it.

But I think the university could easily budget that money especially as next year they will not have the yearly payout for some staff and faculty that came from the early retirement incentive on the books

See, I don't think there's any desire to give him more time. To look at the results since joining the Missouri Valley and think he needs more time would fall under the definition of insanity. He's had one great weekend, one okay season and a whole lot of losing.

Quote from: usc4valpo on March 08, 2023, 10:46:13 AM
the apathy of the basketball program has higher ramifications than just ticket sales. A no change decision implies that Valpo does not care about the program. That also reflects the attitude of the university that wants to promote an inclusive, homey atmosphere. A $700K buyout is crumbs compared to the bigger picture.

This decision should not be difficult.

USC - I'm with you in spirit, but not in truth. As much as I love Valpo bb and as much as I want to see it return to its rightful place among the elite mid-major programs, spending $700K to buyout the bb coach pales in comparison to investing in critical facility needs like enhanced dorm features and nursing facilities (VU's largest academic program). As a donor, I have earmarked contributions to athletics over academics in the past. Not next time. I simply can't justify it in the grand scheme of needs. In fact, if Valpo were to start a capital fundraising campaign for nursing and dorm facilities, I would probablly jump right on board. That said, I want you to know that I LOVE your passion for Valpo bb, along with everyone who shares your opinion. wh

Finances and the unexpected political optics of the art sale may have more to do with the decision than the merits of the team's on-the-court performance. On the latter, the blowout loss against Murray State settled that question. It was a statement game in the worst way possible.

wh - in this era of Div. 1 college athletics, a $700K decision is minimal for almost every program. This is why we should consider stepping down. The committment is not there to excel.

Quote from: wh on March 08, 2023, 12:18:45 PM

Quote from: usc4valpo on March 08, 2023, 10:46:13 AMthe apathy of the basketball program has higher ramifications than just ticket sales. A no change decision implies that Valpo does not care about the program. That also reflects the attitude of the university that wants to promote an inclusive, homey atmosphere. A $700K buyout is crumbs compared to the bigger picture. This decision should not be difficult.

USC - I'm with you in spirit, but not in truth. As much as I love Valpo bb and as much as I want to see it return to its rightful place among the elite mid-major programs, spending $700K to buyout the bb coach pales in comparison to investing in critical facility needs like enhanced dorm features and nursing facilities (VU's largest academic program). As a donor, I have earmarked contributions to athletics over academics in the past. Not next time. I simply can't justify it in the grand scheme of needs. In fact, if Valpo were to start a capital fundraising campaign for nursing and dorm facilities, I would probablly jump right on board. That said, I want you to know that I LOVE your passion for Valpo bb, along with everyone who shares your opinion. wh

I think you're supporting USC's point here.

Quote from: JD24 on March 08, 2023, 02:24:35 PM

Quote from: wh on March 08, 2023, 12:18:45 PM

Quote from: usc4valpo on March 08, 2023, 10:46:13 AMthe apathy of the basketball program has higher ramifications than just ticket sales. A no change decision implies that Valpo does not care about the program. That also reflects the attitude of the university that wants to promote an inclusive, homey atmosphere. A $700K buyout is crumbs compared to the bigger picture. This decision should not be difficult.

USC - I'm with you in spirit, but not in truth. As much as I love Valpo bb and as much as I want to see it return to its rightful place among the elite mid-major programs, spending $700K to buyout the bb coach pales in comparison to investing in critical facility needs like enhanced dorm features and nursing facilities (VU's largest academic program). As a donor, I have earmarked contributions to athletics over academics in the past. Not next time. I simply can't justify it in the grand scheme of needs. In fact, if Valpo were to start a capital fundraising campaign for nursing and dorm facilities, I would probablly jump right on board. That said, I want you to know that I LOVE your passion for Valpo bb, along with everyone who shares your opinion. wh

I think you're supporting USC's point here.

Apparently, we have different takes on the meaning of his post, which was:

"A no change decision implies that Valpo does not care about the program. That also reflects the attitude of the university that wants to promote an inclusive, homey atmosphere. A $700K buyout is crumbs compared to the bigger picture."

I'm afraid I'm still interrupting it the same way; that is, "the cost" is a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things so go ahead and do it. Had he said "the importance" or "the benefit" is a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things, I would have thought of it differently. Maybe USC can clarify for us.

I can live with the word change, just make the right decisions and not commit to mediocrity.

Quote from: wh on March 08, 2023, 03:07:08 PM

Quote from: JD24 on March 08, 2023, 02:24:35 PM

Quote from: wh on March 08, 2023, 12:18:45 PM

Quote from: usc4valpo on March 08, 2023, 10:46:13 AMthe apathy of the basketball program has higher ramifications than just ticket sales. A no change decision implies that Valpo does not care about the program. That also reflects the attitude of the university that wants to promote an inclusive, homey atmosphere. A $700K buyout is crumbs compared to the bigger picture. This decision should not be difficult.

USC - I'm with you in spirit, but not in truth. As much as I love Valpo bb and as much as I want to see it return to its rightful place among the elite mid-major programs, spending $700K to buyout the bb coach pales in comparison to investing in critical facility needs like enhanced dorm features and nursing facilities (VU's largest academic program). As a donor, I have earmarked contributions to athletics over academics in the past. Not next time. I simply can't justify it in the grand scheme of needs. In fact, if Valpo were to start a capital fundraising campaign for nursing and dorm facilities, I would probablly jump right on board. That said, I want you to know that I LOVE your passion for Valpo bb, along with everyone who shares your opinion. wh

I think you're supporting USC's point here.

Apparently, we have different takes on the meaning of his post, which was: "A no change decision implies that Valpo does not care about the program. That also reflects the attitude of the university that wants to promote an inclusive, homey atmosphere. A $700K buyout is crumbs compared to the bigger picture." I'm afraid I'm still interrupting it the same way; that is, "the cost" is a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things so go ahead and do it. Had he said "the importance" or "the benefit" is a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things, I would have thought of it differently. Maybe USC can clarify for us.

I think his post was more in line of the school not making a change because, in a sense, they can't afford to is a problem from a few different points of view.

Could be waiting on Popovich season to end with the Spurs....

Quote from: valpofb16 on March 08, 2023, 06:32:05 PMCould be waiting on Popovich season to end with the Spurs....

Boeheim's available.

Bobby Knight?   The chairbacks are bolted down.

The school can change their name faster than they can change a coach..... LOL.


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Quote from: crusadermoe on March 08, 2023, 07:24:40 PM
Bobby Knight?   The chairbacks are bolted down.

But not the actual chairs that the players, coaches and staff sit on.

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GrouchyIckyBlacklemur-size_restricted.gif)

Quote from: crusadermoe on March 08, 2023, 07:24:40 PM
Bobby Knight?   The chairbacks are bolted down.

Forgive this tangent, but I was in high school in NW Indiana when Bobby Knight was all the rage (pun intended). Let's just say there were more than a few high school and junior high b-ball coaches who thought that emulating his emotional excesses ("Be Like Bob!") would somehow turn them into great coaches, when in reality they were just rageaholics who sucked at coaching, too.

And now I return you to our Valpo Vigil....

Mark Adams of Texas Tech is out after using scripture to "help" some of his players.

Basketball coach? Scripture? Sounds like a perfect fit!!!

Absolutely unreal we have gone a week without a peep. Not even a "We'll be meeting with Coach Lottich soon to discuss the direction of the program."

Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 09, 2023, 02:45:53 PM
Absolutely unreal we have gone a week without a peep. Not even a "We'll be meeting with Coach Lottich soon to discuss the direction of the program."

Time to get on with your life, okay. Believe me! Nothing is going to happen with Coach Lottich. All is being handled privately. There will be no announcements till September/October as is usual. Student/Athlete movement will be in the media as usual.

What's the ol' idiom declare ?... "No news is good news." Recognizing the relativity of the word "good" - I suppose we can take the "good" news, either way, we'd like ... ???

Quote from: historyman on March 09, 2023, 03:11:18 PMTime to get on with your life, okay. Believe me! Nothing is going to happen with Coach Lottich. All is being handled privately.

Got it. Should we sound the death knell now or wait until fan interest has fallen to zero? All of us would like to pay our final respects so would you like to take the honor of opening our basketball program eulogy thread?

Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 09, 2023, 02:45:53 PM
Absolutely unreal we have gone a week without a peep. Not even a "We'll be meeting with Coach Lottich soon to discuss the direction of the program."

I have a feeling there will be no "peeps," and it will be business as usual.
Apathy will continue.

Look, both Smart and Padilla have certain public responsibilities with respect to the end of the season. Smart is at Hoops in the Heartland where he damn well should definitely be. Padilla may be there as well.

Don't think for a second that they have put the Lottich decision way back on a back burner until these responsibilities are completed.  Give these guys some credit for some realization that right now our women need total attention but behind the scenes there is activity. Any delay may well be just for one game, but a few days either way will not make a difference as to whether an announcement/communication is made and John Calipari immediately bails on Kentucky and philanthropically comes to Valpo to turn our program around.  🙄

Shoot, The Final Four is weeks away and there is plenty of time to state a position and either open the doors for applicants (and there will be many) or stand behind their man. Our impatience don't mean squat to Smart or Padilla, and they don't owe us a friggin thing until decisions are firmly made along their timeline and not ours. Let's breathe deeply, lower our blood pressure and wait. It's not gonna be long. Patience my friends.

What will the decision be?

Swami predicts:

Dormitory upgrades, reallocation of budget lines to upgrade faculty compensation as well as student aid in conjunction with the hiring of a new head men's basketball coach all in motion by the fall of 2023.

The arena feasibility study will recommend a new multi-use arena that will be built on the Porter Hospital land in partnership with the city and a major regional business entity whose name will adorn the facility that will seat 5,000 for BB games and concerts. The arena will include a conference/convention center and possibly an adjoining hotel. Monster Trucks and Vince Gill will visit Valparaiso in 2025. 

The Swami knows all, and he envisions Valpo going all-in and winning. Take it to the bank, my friends.

The longer this goes the less likely a change will be made.

Cal just sacked their guy one day after their season ended. We are now a week in. 

And moments ago Patrick

It's simple. No decision, no season tickets or walk-ins to games.
That's an easy decision. Plus you won't have to get frustrated with what you will see next year if Matt is retained. Who needs that as a fan? There hasn't been any progress, nicely or otherwise.

Money talks.

I like where 62 is going and maybe there is a level of leadership efficiency with Small  going on. Let's assume Valpo's women's  team loses tonight. Then a 3 hour drive from Moline back to Valpo.  Then the next day, within an hour, Lottich and Evans get canned. Evans at 9 AM. Lottich at 9:30 AM. Boom.

USC, wanna edit your post below???

Quote from: usc4valpo on March 09, 2023, 07:34:41 PMI like where 62 is going and maybe there is a level of leadership efficiency with Small  going on. Let's assume Valpo's women's  team loses tonight. Then a 3 hour drive from Moline back to Valpo.  Then the next day, within an hour, Lottich and Evans get canned. Evans at 9 AM. Lottich at 9:30 AM. Boom.

The one hope I have in Lottich being replaced is that the school is waiting for the women to finish their tournament before making any announcement...not necessarily about the women's coach...just Lottich.

As has been mentioned though, coaches have been fired as they walked off the court over the last few days. Not sure why Valpo can't do what is customary.

Quote from: Valpo89 on March 09, 2023, 04:01:01 PM

Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 09, 2023, 02:45:53 PM
Absolutely unreal we have gone a week without a peep. Not even a "We'll be meeting with Coach Lottich soon to discuss the direction of the program."

I have a feeling there will be no "peeps," and it will be business as usual.
Apathy will continue.

WRONG!!!


There's somw peeps.


(http://images7.memedroid.com/images/UPLOADED140/551e03cbc0e18.jpeg)

Ok, two embarrassing blowouts, seasons are over, time to make changes. This is embarrassing and depressing.

Quote from: VULB#62 on March 09, 2023, 04:46:11 PM
Smart is at Hoops in the Heartland where he damn well should definitely be. Padilla may be there as well.

Padilla has been in Washington this week. He was making the rounds of all the Indiana politicians' offices, apparently from the look of this picture, not to boast about the success of the branding change from Crusaders to Beacons.
[tweet]1633917884563968000[/tweet]

Quote from: valpopal on March 10, 2023, 09:47:49 AM

Quote from: VULB#62 on March 09, 2023, 04:46:11 PM
Smart is at Hoops in the Heartland where he damn well should definitely be. Padilla may be there as well.

Padilla has been in Washington this week. He was making the rounds of all the Indiana politicians' offices, apparently from the look of this picture, not to boast about the success of the branding change from Crusaders to Beacons.
[tweet]1633917884563968000[/tweet]

That logo was so much better than the lighthouse....

I was really confident throughout the season a change would be made after the season ended.

I'm getting really nervous now.

Quote from: may know on March 10, 2023, 10:16:15 AM
I was really confident throughout the season a change would be made after the season ended.

I'm getting really nervous now.

Again, it's time to get on with your life. There will be no coaching change at Valpo this off season. No reason for you or anyone else to get your hopes up.

Quote from: historyman on March 10, 2023, 11:43:16 AM

Quote from: may know on March 10, 2023, 10:16:15 AM
I was really confident throughout the season a change would be made after the season ended.

I'm getting really nervous now.

Again, it's time to get on with your life. There will be no coaching change at Valpo this off season. No reason for you or anyone else to get your hopes up.

Agree. [emoji3581]

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

Quote from: valpopal on March 10, 2023, 09:47:49 AM
Padilla has been in Washington this week. He was making the rounds of all the Indiana politicians' offices, apparently from the look of this picture, not to boast about the success of the branding change from Crusaders to Beacons.

A damaging, unforced error, orchestrated by a faction of myopic adults and petulant children, manipulating a weak, ineffective interim president helplessly paralyzed in fear. Where are these people now? The interim has presumably returned to her day job in accounting or whatever. The junior social justice warriors are long gone and hopefully living productive lives devoid of Marxist influence. As to the myopic adults, I would suspect not much has changed - still congregating in the faculty lounge, blaming everyone but themselves for the current financial crisis and everything else unfair in the world.

Quote from: wh on March 10, 2023, 01:16:51 PM

Quote from: valpopal on March 10, 2023, 09:47:49 AM
Padilla has been in Washington this week. He was making the rounds of all the Indiana politicians' offices, apparently from the look of this picture, not to boast about the success of the branding change from Crusaders to Beacons.

A damaging, unforced error, orchestrated by a faction of myopic adults and petulant children, manipulating a weak, ineffective interim president helplessly paralyzed in fear. Where are these people now? The interim has presumably returned to her day job in accounting or whatever. The junior social justice warriors are long gone and hopefully living productive lives devoid of Marxist influence. As to the myopic adults, I would suspect not much has changed - still congregating in the faculty lounge, blaming everyone but themselves for the current financial crisis and everything else unfair in the world.

A couple clarifications, WH, that contradict your comments.


1) I can assure you removal of the Crusader mascot and nickname was Padilla's decision, and he is proud of it. The interim president made the announcement months after Padilla was hired and only a couple weeks before he took over. She would not have made the announcement without his approval. To do so would have been unconscionable for an interim with only 15 days left before departing. It was just more politically expedient for the announcement to come before Padilla officially moved into his office. If anyone manipulated her for his own sake, it was Padilla.


2) Sami Khorbotly, the major faculty spokesperson in favor of the sale and ally of Padilla, quoted in both the Chicago Tribune and the New York Times, was also the most outspoken faculty member promoting the removal of the Crusader. Paul even had him as a guest on Union Street Hoops, and one of Sami's main arguments for dropping the Crusader was...wait for it...the change would increase enrollment, which did not happen, and that is the same argument he is making for the sale of the artwork.

Quote from: valpopal on March 10, 2023, 01:46:26 PMI can assure you removal of the Crusader mascot and nickname was Padilla's decision, and he is proud of it.

Let me take a wild, wild guess: You don't like President Padilla.  Just a guess... ::)

Quote from: vu72 on March 10, 2023, 01:59:01 PM

Quote from: valpopal on March 10, 2023, 01:46:26 PMI can assure you removal of the Crusader mascot and nickname was Padilla's decision, and he is proud of it.

Let me take a wild, wild guess: You don't like President Padilla.  Just a guess... ::)

Just making a clarification based upon fact. There is nothing personal in my comment nor in my agreement or disagreement with his decisions. Maybe that's how you operate, but I don't. I disagreed with many of the faculty, some my best friends, who joined Padilla and supported removal of the Crusader.

Quote from: wh on March 10, 2023, 01:16:51 PM

Quote from: valpopal on March 10, 2023, 09:47:49 AM
Padilla has been in Washington this week. He was making the rounds of all the Indiana politicians' offices, apparently from the look of this picture, not to boast about the success of the branding change from Crusaders to Beacons.

A damaging, unforced error, orchestrated by a faction of myopic adults and petulant children, manipulating a weak, ineffective interim president helplessly paralyzed in fear. Where are these people now? The interim has presumably returned to her day job in accounting or whatever. The junior social justice warriors are long gone and hopefully living productive lives devoid of Marxist influence. As to the myopic adults, I would suspect not much has changed - still congregating in the faculty lounge, blaming everyone but themselves for the current financial crisis and everything else unfair in the world.

Thank you and if you need a hand getting down from your soapbox I'd be glad to help.  :)

Meanwhile, I have had continual problems with my ESPN+ subscription and am wondering if I should even renew it should Lottich stay? I only viewed about half of our BB games this year along with a little VB and portions of a couple FB. With no bottom in sight for our BB program should we cut back this unnecessary expense to make certain to balance our own budgets? I'm also thinking that maybe a full year away from basketball might completely cure my lifelong addiction? Thoughts?

Pal's version of the nickname is supported in our old threads on that topic.  Padilla made it clear that the final choice of our new identity would be HIS. He was gonna put his stamp on the university, dammit. He unfortunately chose Lighthouses, er, Beacons.  I'm sure he also had final say on the two DunePuppies we now have as complementary (huh?) mascots. Hey, no way do you want to have a comical lighthouse or a guy with his hair on fire running around the ARC, right? This does not change the fact that before Padilla got here, the Crusader was already toast as a result of the movement that began way back when the blow-up ARC Crusader disappeared never to return. Btw, that thing was so cool, because he was so damn big.  He really was impressive on TV.

I know. I am posting this reply at the risk of giving USC a massive mascot-induced coronary, but it is what it is. 🙄

Let me add this as an edit. His ultimate decision shocked me. Why?

>> He came from a Catholic institution that was known as the Blue freakin DEMONS for god's sake.
>> He is an inveterate sports fan and understands the athletic context of a nickname, identity and mascot. He damn well knew that a school's nickname applies to, and only would be used for, athletic teams, not the university as a whole.
>> He is not ministerial, evangelical or whatever; he's more of a business person.

My only conclusion is that, coming in new, he felt he nneeded to show a certain constituency that he was in their corner. But he inexplicably went too far. The name change faction would have been perfectly happy with Dune Hawks as long as the bird mascot didn't wear armor.

Quote from: justducky on March 10, 2023, 02:12:01 PMMeanwhile, I have had continual problems with my ESPN+ subscription

Thanks for the reminder.  I always cancel my subscription after Arch Madness.

St. John's lets go Mike Anderson and South Florida lets go Brian Gregory.

Valpo twiddle twaddles.

Being let go after poor performance can actually be a positive experience. It causes deeper self-examination and a broadening of vistas. Think of all the coaches who have been fired and got second chances that panned out. Bryce for instance. He's kicking butt at GCU.

On the flip side, not being fired in the face of continual poor performance reinforces in the coach's mind that he is performing well and needn't adjust what he's doing or think outside the box. That's a formula for continual failure.

I say this with sincerity, Matt is a good guy who deserves the opportunity to learn from a termination.

We've reached the point where not only have plenty of schools have both fired former coaches and hired their replacements. Yet complete silence from our AD.
If we're sticking with Lottich for whatever reason, we should have put out some kind of statement by now. If we're still 'evaluating the situation', then at least let us know that!

At this point, unless we see a mass rush for the exits by players in the next few weeks I would say nothing is changing. Also, I highly doubt there will be a release saying as much but we might get a  response to a reporter question asking if ML is the coach for next year.

I'd assume that if he stays there might be a shake up in Assistant Coaching or a private conversation about what is expected for the next season.

Quote from: valpo22 on March 14, 2023, 10:21:58 AM
Question.. Is it normal to issue a 'we're not laying off' pronouncement? Wouldn't the assumption be that silence = status quo, or is it actually typical for universities to each year indicate both the green or red light?

Sometimes an athletic director will issue a statement to indicate support for the head coach moving forward, but it's not like it happens in every hot seat instance. At this point, it would feel pretty surprising to see Valpo move on. It's getting late.

Embarrassing. If Lottich remains, it is a clear indicator Valpo is apathetic and not committed to successful D1 basketball. Tell me where I'm wrong on this statement.

If we cannot afford $700k, which is crumbs in D1 sports, we should quit pretending and drop to D3.

I gotcha. It is very frustrating. My feeling is that they can make the move if they really wanted to and cared about the program after all it has done for the university. It's really sad.

I also wish there would be some level of transparancy on what they are going to do.

[Imagine here that emoji of a guy beating a dead horse]

:twocents:    It's actually like $1.5+ million over the next two years (and probably more like $1.6 or $1.7).  That is, if you factor in the cost of the replacement coach's salary and bennies, as well as any concession/incentive expenditures on the program to attract the guy to sign. That's quite a pill to swallow in only 24 months, especially when you consider how hard it's gonna be to build attendance back up to Drew era numbers.

If Small and Padilla can't find a creative way to see Lottich out I think the conversation needs to be moved to them. A lot of talk about athletics being a priority and zero action across the board. I'm not expecting a new 40m facility, just remove people who are not doing their job.

One thing that has been a key piece in all this is that the base foundation of a lot of things maybe needs to be built up. I want our Basketball team to win and I want a coach that makes it happen. BUT it could be that Padilla and Small are looking at a bigger picture that makes them think a new coach right now is not the best investment in resources. if they have 1.7 million to throw at something is it their view that it's a better investment to do a buyout and hope the next coach can improve even with subpar resources or is it to build up the resources now to make the job more attractive and better resourced overall?

Valpo has been doing too much with too little for too long. We've gotten used to some pretty good top of the line results over the years and we want those back but not at the expensive of continuing to rebuild on a shakey foundation.

Cutting is always viewed as "bad" but what if you cut so you can finally give your strengths the support they need. Being able to brag about how many D-I sports we have doesn't do any good if they're all in subpar facilities vs cutting some to hopefully see the others bear better fruit and continue to be reinvested in. Cutting lower producing programs or those that are top heavy in costs so that you can start to roll back cuts and give out merit raises and hire in at higher salaries in the areas you already have interest and strength is also good.

I'm want to see new investments if we're not going to buy out. But I also want to see proof that we are investing smartly ( I tend ot think both new dorms and new athletic facilities meet that goal)

Quote from: valpo22 on March 14, 2023, 10:21:58 AMQuestion.. Is it normal to issue a 'we're not laying off' pronouncement? Wouldn't the assumption be that silence = status quo, or is it actually typical for universities to each year indicate both the green or red light?

This would be my expectation. No comment means status quo. So....highly likely status quo.

There should be an expectation that Dr. Small will have to put out some bs response to a question addressing the coaching situation from an intrepid reporter or two.

Quote from: VULB#62 on March 14, 2023, 11:14:03 AM
[Imagine here that emoji of a guy beating a dead horse]

:twocents:    It's actually like $1.5+ million over the next two years (and probably more like $1.6 or $1.7).  That is, if you factor in the cost of the replacement coach's salary and bennies, as well as any concession/incentive expenditures on the program to attract the guy to sign. That's quite a pill to swallow in only 24 months, especially when you consider how hard it's gonna be to build attendance back up to Drew era numbers.

I do not buy the argument that a buyout would be that expensive. If we assume $700K (two years salary) and benefits, I don't see how that is more than $800K. And that assumes that you can't negotiate it down. If we assume a new coach would be paid a bit more - say $400K per year, which would be in the upper half of MVC coaching salaries (I think),and the benefits are the same - the incremental two-year spend would be about $100K. I'll add in some higher salaries for the new assistants versus the current assistant, so add another $100K per year ($200K total over two years). Incentives would be based on performance (I hope!), so no added cost that would not likely be offset by greater revenues (though increased revenues from ticket sales will lag performance improvements). That totals to about $1.1M over two years(so 62's premise that the costs would be higher is likely valid). But, you also need to factor in the windfall from the New Mexico State buy game, which is probably around $300K. Thus, the net cost, in my view, is about $800K over two years. Not an insignificant amount, but not $1.6M.

Regardless, I think that no action from the AD so far indicates continuing with the status quo. Frankly, there is no way to sell this (though there might be some cursory attempt, like replacing an assistant coach or promoting someone like Tevonn Walker). Continuing with the status quo means not implementing a system in which you then recruit players who fit that system...which is a far stronger recipe for success than what has been done with the current coaching staff.

Valpo22, I get your point, but, I disagree with your analogy below a little bit.  The expenditure on a new coaching staff, while paying the existing is not like buying a toy, although I imagine that the non-sports fan portion of the VU Family would view it that way.  Rather, I view it as an investment.  Theoretically, an improved coaching staff would lead to more wins, and some prospective students would elect to come to VU, and there would be greater tickets sales and TV coverage.  Maybe your analogy should have been that the teen is throwing a fit because they weren't allowed to use their money for a new car for their Uber job.  Theoretically, the new car would lead to better revenue, but there is still an affordability problem.  I think a replacement of the coaching staff is simply a B/C ratio.  I imagine that the internal VU dispute is on the 'B'.

i just don't get how pitching a fit over Valpo not dropping $700K on a buy-out right now is helpful. it's like a teenager throwing a fit because they don't get an Xbox for Christmas when the parents were just trying to make sure there was a ham and electricity on for Christmas eve. if Valpo can't afford it, Valpo can't afford it.

Quote from: vu84v2 on March 14, 2023, 12:50:05 PM

Quote from: VULB#62 on March 14, 2023, 11:14:03 AM
[Imagine here that emoji of a guy beating a dead horse]

:twocents:    It's actually like $1.5+ million over the next two years (and probably more like $1.6 or $1.7).  That is, if you factor in the cost of the replacement coach's salary and bennies, as well as any concession/incentive expenditures on the program to attract the guy to sign. That's quite a pill to swallow in only 24 months, especially when you consider how hard it's gonna be to build attendance back up to Drew era numbers.

I do not buy the argument that a buyout would be that expensive. If we assume $700K (two years salary) and benefits, I don't see how that is more than $800K. And that assumes that you can't negotiate it down. If we assume a new coach would be paid a bit more - say $400K per year, which would be in the upper half of MVC coaching salaries (I think),and the benefits are the same - the incremental two-year spend would be about $100K. I'll add in some higher salaries for the new assistants versus the current assistant, so add another $100K per year ($200K total over two years). Incentives would be based on performance (I hope!), so no added cost that would not likely be offset by greater revenues (though increased revenues from ticket sales will lag performance improvements). That totals to about $1.1M over two years(so 62's premise that the costs would be higher is likely valid). But, you also need to factor in the windfall from the New Mexico State buy game, which is probably around $300K. Thus, the net cost, in my view, is about $800K over two years. Not an insignificant amount, but not $1.6M.

Regardless, I think that no action from the AD so far indicates continuing with the status quo. Frankly, there is no way to sell this (though there might be some cursory attempt, like replacing an assistant coach or promoting someone like Tevonn Walker). Continuing with the status quo means not implementing a system in which you then recruit players who fit that system...which is a far stronger recipe for success than what has been done with the current coaching staff.

You are looking at the "additional" cost of a coaching change. As you described it, I agree. Two years @$365k = $730k that will probably be negotiated down a bit.  Add the other additional stuff you cite and $800k on top of the current budget makes sense.

However, I was looking at the total cost that the university must budget for over the next 24 months in the face of declining game attendance. And, just like the heralded move to the MVC in 2017, I'll bet there are going to be unknown (or known but conveniently ignored) hidden costs. I also have no insider info on how the university will use the NMSU windfall. I don't know if that income has already disappeared into the general fund or is held onto by the athletic department, so I'd be reluctant to make that a factor.

I will say, though, that one way to recoup some of the cost should a change occur would be to schedule a bunch of buy (body bag) P5 games, like Kampe used to do, just to get an improved revenue stream going. No more non-D-Is. As a matter of fact, regardless if Matt is back or not, until the program is back on its financial feet, shouldn't that be the scheduling philosophy?

62 - I would not assume getting a lot of buy games is possible. Major conferences have increased their number of conference games and have increased "challenges" with other conferences. For a team in a Power 6 conference, they have probably gone from 10 buy games in a season to around 6. Further, there is a greater emphasis in games that could count as Quad 1 or Quad 2 games...and Valpo is far away from that.

If the NMSU windfall was applied to the university's general finances, I (and I hope many) would have a real problem with that. If the university takes most or all of the margin dollars from ventures pursued by the athletic department or individual colleges, then why should those entities pursue them? If the athletic department retains most or all of those funds and chooses to use them for a different (likely special) purpose, that would seem to be fully within their right.

Yeah, probably.  But ya gotta try 😀

Quote from: vu84v2 on March 14, 2023, 12:50:05 PM

Quote from: VULB#62 on March 14, 2023, 11:14:03 AM
[Imagine here that emoji of a guy beating a dead horse]

:twocents:    It's actually like $1.5+ million over the next two years (and probably more like $1.6 or $1.7).  That is, if you factor in the cost of the replacement coach's salary and bennies, as well as any concession/incentive expenditures on the program to attract the guy to sign. That's quite a pill to swallow in only 24 months, especially when you consider how hard it's gonna be to build attendance back up to Drew era numbers.

I do not buy the argument that a buyout would be that expensive. If we assume $700K (two years salary) and benefits, I don't see how that is more than $800K. And that assumes that you can't negotiate it down. If we assume a new coach would be paid a bit more - say $400K per year, which would be in the upper half of MVC coaching salaries (I think),and the benefits are the same - the incremental two-year spend would be about $100K. I'll add in some higher salaries for the new assistants versus the current assistant, so add another $100K per year ($200K total over two years). Incentives would be based on performance (I hope!), so no added cost that would not likely be offset by greater revenues (though increased revenues from ticket sales will lag performance improvements). That totals to about $1.1M over two years(so 62's premise that the costs would be higher is likely valid). But, you also need to factor in the windfall from the New Mexico State buy game, which is probably around $300K. Thus, the net cost, in my view, is about $800K over two years. Not an insignificant amount, but not $1.6M.

Regardless, I think that no action from the AD so far indicates continuing with the status quo. Frankly, there is no way to sell this (though there might be some cursory attempt, like replacing an assistant coach or promoting someone like Tevonn Walker). Continuing with the status quo means not implementing a system in which you then recruit players who fit that system...which is a far stronger recipe for success than what has been done with the current coaching staff.

It could just be me, but I'm having a hard time following your math logic. Could you please clarify. Specifically, what is your bottom line TOTAL ADDED COST OVER THE NEXT 2 YEARS to buy out ML's contract at $350k/year x 2, while also paying a new coach the same amount, or more?

Valpo22, I agree with all of that.

But, simply I think that your thinking is unfortunate (no reflection on you).  Seems that there is a lack of confidence as to the leadership being able to capably make a commitment that requires a significant allocation of revenue where there is risk (i.e., all of your 'what-ifs').

My own (very uneducated) view is that there is a cultural issue in leadership that has resulted in recent failures.  It will take a lot to change that, and it is very unfortunate that VU is where it is.  But the current issues have resulted in pessimism common in posts like yours.

It's very unfortunate.

I only check this forum daily now to see when Lottich will be let go. It is unbelievable that nothing has been done yet

When you have booster clubs with deep pockets and million dollar athletics donors it goes fast. When you have neither, it's gonna take a bit longer.

Quote from: wh on March 14, 2023, 01:39:26 PM

Quote from: vu84v2 on March 14, 2023, 12:50:05 PM

Quote from: VULB#62 on March 14, 2023, 11:14:03 AM
[Imagine here that emoji of a guy beating a dead horse]

:twocents:    It's actually like $1.5+ million over the next two years (and probably more like $1.6 or $1.7).  That is, if you factor in the cost of the replacement coach's salary and bennies, as well as any concession/incentive expenditures on the program to attract the guy to sign. That's quite a pill to swallow in only 24 months, especially when you consider how hard it's gonna be to build attendance back up to Drew era numbers.

First, my estimates are essentially done on a cocktail napkin.

My argument is that the two-year cost would be ~$1M if they paid the new coach the same as Matt Lottich. My guess is that they would need to pay $50K more per year, so my guess on two-year cost with additional pay is $1.1M.

I do not buy the argument that a buyout would be that expensive. If we assume $700K (two years salary) and benefits, I don't see how that is more than $800K. And that assumes that you can't negotiate it down. If we assume a new coach would be paid a bit more - say $400K per year, which would be in the upper half of MVC coaching salaries (I think),and the benefits are the same - the incremental two-year spend would be about $100K. I'll add in some higher salaries for the new assistants versus the current assistant, so add another $100K per year ($200K total over two years). Incentives would be based on performance (I hope!), so no added cost that would not likely be offset by greater revenues (though increased revenues from ticket sales will lag performance improvements). That totals to about $1.1M over two years(so 62's premise that the costs would be higher is likely valid). But, you also need to factor in the windfall from the New Mexico State buy game, which is probably around $300K. Thus, the net cost, in my view, is about $800K over two years. Not an insignificant amount, but not $1.6M.

Regardless, I think that no action from the AD so far indicates continuing with the status quo. Frankly, there is no way to sell this (though there might be some cursory attempt, like replacing an assistant coach or promoting someone like Tevonn Walker). Continuing with the status quo means not implementing a system in which you then recruit players who fit that system...which is a far stronger recipe for success than what has been done with the current coaching staff.

It could just be me, but I'm having a hard time following your math logic. Could you please clarify. Specifically, what is your bottom line TOTAL ADDED COST OVER THE NEXT 2 YEARS to buy out ML's contract at $350k/year x 2, while also paying a new coach the same amount, or more?

My guess is that the two-year cost, assuming that a new coach is paid the same as Matt Lottich, is $1M. My guess is that they would need to pay $50K more per year, so $1.1M. Of course, this is a cocktail napkin estimate.

Quote from: vu84v2 on March 14, 2023, 09:24:20 PM

Quote from: wh on March 14, 2023, 01:39:26 PM

Quote from: vu84v2 on March 14, 2023, 12:50:05 PM

Quote from: VULB#62 on March 14, 2023, 11:14:03 AM
[Imagine here that emoji of a guy beating a dead horse]

:twocents:    It's actually like $1.5+ million over the next two years (and probably more like $1.6 or $1.7).  That is, if you factor in the cost of the replacement coach's salary and bennies, as well as any concession/incentive expenditures on the program to attract the guy to sign. That's quite a pill to swallow in only 24 months, especially when you consider how hard it's gonna be to build attendance back up to Drew era numbers.

First, my estimates are essentially done on a cocktail napkin.

My argument is that the two-year cost would be ~$1M if they paid the new coach the same as Matt Lottich. My guess is that they would need to pay $50K more per year, so my guess on two-year cost with additional pay is $1.1M.

I do not buy the argument that a buyout would be that expensive. If we assume $700K (two years salary) and benefits, I don't see how that is more than $800K. And that assumes that you can't negotiate it down. If we assume a new coach would be paid a bit more - say $400K per year, which would be in the upper half of MVC coaching salaries (I think),and the benefits are the same - the incremental two-year spend would be about $100K. I'll add in some higher salaries for the new assistants versus the current assistant, so add another $100K per year ($200K total over two years). Incentives would be based on performance (I hope!), so no added cost that would not likely be offset by greater revenues (though increased revenues from ticket sales will lag performance improvements). That totals to about $1.1M over two years(so 62's premise that the costs would be higher is likely valid). But, you also need to factor in the windfall from the New Mexico State buy game, which is probably around $300K. Thus, the net cost, in my view, is about $800K over two years. Not an insignificant amount, but not $1.6M.

Regardless, I think that no action from the AD so far indicates continuing with the status quo. Frankly, there is no way to sell this (though there might be some cursory attempt, like replacing an assistant coach or promoting someone like Tevonn Walker). Continuing with the status quo means not implementing a system in which you then recruit players who fit that system...which is a far stronger recipe for success than what has been done with the current coaching staff.

It could just be me, but I'm having a hard time following your math logic. Could you please clarify. Specifically, what is your bottom line TOTAL ADDED COST OVER THE NEXT 2 YEARS to buy out ML's contract at $350k/year x 2, while also paying a new coach the same amount, or more?

My guess is that the two-year cost, assuming that a new coach is paid the same as Matt Lottich, is $1M. My guess is that they would need to pay $50K more per year, so $1.1M. Of course, this is a cocktail napkin estimate.

Got it. Thanks!

Still not a peep?  Mr Oren, I'm assuming you've reached out to Dr Small for comment, but is there any indication if/when a statement is coming?  Or not coming?

Well...... no news is good no news. 

I have resigned myself to the fact that the basketball program got caught in an unexpected perfect storm of three simultaneous events coming together: 

>> The Art Sale Fiasco hitting at the same time as....
>> A very real need for a coaching change evolving over the past three years, which is impacted by.....
>> An unwisely long contract extension still requiring an excessive 2 year buy-out.

If I was in the President's shoes right now, I'd view the Art Sale as the flaming PR fire it is which needs immediate response and a fire hose.  The MBB coach situation OTOH, while a flashpoint for many, is still not on fire and threatening to spread across the campus and alumni community. That has to wait. If it's another bad year in the MVC, so be it.

Save a rich alum willing to significantly help with a buy-out, Padilla's choice is not an either/or or both. And Small has no unilateral power to make this one particular coaching change happen.

Looks Iike Georgetown is close to a deal with a new coach.   Lottich?


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I think the best situation is if a higher major hires Matt as an assistant coach and he leaves voluntary.  I don't think he will be offered a head job at this point.  And Valpo can't afford to terminate his contract.   Best future bet for Matt is to find a position as a high level assistant.

Ideally, all of the coaches would receive offers from other universities so that their new salary would off-set buy-outs.

Maybe new positions are being explored now, and that's what is going on behind the scenes.

Quote from: chgovalpofan on March 21, 2023, 08:16:36 AM
I think the best situation is if a higher major hires Matt as an assistant coach and he leaves voluntary.  I don't think he will be offered a head job at this point.  And Valpo can't afford to terminate his contract.   Best future bet for Matt is to find a position as a high level assistant.

He definitely is not leaving a HC position to become an assistant at a P5. A) that's not in his nature to quit, B) he might not make the same money as an assistant Coach. Everyone assumes all big school assistants make hundreds of thousands of dollars but from my understanding it varies greatly between programs.

Opening at Oral Robers Matt. Get it while it's hot.

https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1638291782457761792

ORU invests less than Valpo in its BB program. This guy can coach.  He'll do well at WSU.

Ed Cooley to Georgetown, Rick Pitino to St. John's, Tobin Anderson to Iona, Mike Brey to South Florida.

Valpo searching for someone to pass the tin cup.

WTH? Rick Pitino, a supreme bum of a human being, has more lives than a litter of cats. (I had to stop myself from typing "cat litter.") Sheesh.

If you win, you get a second chance. Bruce Pearl, Kelvin Sampson, Mark Godfried, Will Wade etc...The Guy is a Freakn Phoenix! I guess you could say he got a punishment. Was outta coaching for a minute, went over seas and now is back at his second Catholic institution in the NY Metro area. Maybe Louisville Kentucky has a more exotic night life than in Queens, NY resulting in more liberal recruiting practices by his coaching staff! That must be it.

Quote from: JD24 on March 21, 2023, 11:09:44 PMEd Cooley to Georgetown, Rick Pitino to St. John's, Tobin Anderson to Iona, Mike Brey to South Florida. Valpo searching for someone to pass the tin cup.

Mike Brey is not going to South Florida. Some bad reports on that one. He's still available for Valpo.

Brey said hes pursuing tv for a year

ORU has invested a lot in the program.  This is not the ORU of the Mid-con days.  They keep adding wings to the Mabee Center. 

ORU hired within.  We shall see. 

I would be perfectly happy with having a really good coach and him leaving in 4-5 years.  As mid-majors we should expect that.  As mid-majors if your coach isn't getting poached, then your program isn't doing well.  Matt isn't getting poached. 

Maybe some D-2 programs would be interested if they know that ML is sitting on a hot seat and he gets let go or leaves on his own.

If Lottich "has" to stay for some wild reasons his contract at the very least better be restructured so next year is his last season.

Quote from: NotBryceDrew on March 23, 2023, 03:37:29 PM
If Lottich "has" to stay for some wild reasons his contract at the very least better be restructured so next year is his last season.

The point of having a contract is that the terms of employment are clear for both sides. A re-structuring like this would only occur if there is some sort of benefit to Coach Lottich, like "we'll give you a $100,000 raise next year, yet Valpo can terminate the contract at the end of the year without an additional buyout." Or, "We'll add a $250,000 bonus for winning the MVC tournament, yet your future buyout is reduced by 50% at the end of the 2023-24 season." Otherwise, there is no reason for any coach to restructure.

Note that this is different than re-structuring a contract of an athlete, say in football. In that case, it is often shifting more guaranteed money forward, or the player taking pay cut now to avoid being cut from the roster entirely. Or,  a player agrees to defer non-guaranteed salary in order for the team to sign a top free agent that will make the team much better. The big difference is that most football contracts are year to year and are not guaranteed.

Today!

He's gone!

Wow!