With all the talk of the legacy of the graduating players and the beginning of the Bryce Era II upon us, I thought it might be fun to discuss our All-Time Starting 5's...you can only pick 5 and you have to list by the traditional positions---G, G, F, F, C
G- Bryce Drew
G- Lubos Barton
F- Casey Schmidt
F- Dan Oppland
C- Raitis Grafs
I know my team is fairly young, but that is a product of seriously following the program for only 20 years or so. Would love to hear what you guys think, who your five would be, and why.
I hope this sparks some interesting off-season talk!
I think I might replace Casey, move Lubos to the 3 and add Bruce Lindner at the 2. Dick Jones also needs to be considered for G. Joel Oberman was a rebounding machine as defense and rebounding need help unless this is solely scoring. Zoran may have had more toughness than Raitis and had a bit more D. Mo Smith is another all-around forward. And you have to look at Don Bielke who played in the 50s at F too.
In the Homer Drew era, I think DC is correct. The five best players were Drew, Barton, Schmidt, Oppland and Grafs.
Anyway you cut it Bruce Lindner has to be in the top 5, and I could make arguments for many others too. But just think about Bruce for a moment.
He averaged 27.9 ppg in his senior season and this was BEFORE the three point shot. He also shot 89% from the foul line and scored 51 in a single game. I would venture a guess that half of those points were made from distance so, with today's 3 point line that 51 could have more like 60! One hell of a guy and player. Say hello to him some time. He's a season ticket holder.
Quote from: vu72 on May 20, 2011, 06:20:49 AM
Anyway you cut it Bruce Lindner has to be in the top 5, and I could make arguments for many others too. But just think about Bruce for a moment.
He averaged 27.9 ppg in his senior season and this was BEFORE the three point shot. He also shot 89% from the foul line and scored 51 in a single game. I would venture a guess that half of those points were made from distance so, with today's 3 point line that 51 could have more like 60! One hell of a guy and player. Say hello to him some time. He's a season ticket holder.
VU72, I appreciate your input and I know Lindner was a good player. I never saw him play, and I wish I would have. Your argument about the numbers also makes a lot of sense.
However I just think it's too difficult to compare eras, especially from the 1960s when the game was much, much more "run and gun" and officials actually called a foul a foul - not allowing today's "lock-down" defense.
I have no doubt, however, that Lindner could be considered one of VU's all-time best - just as Rick Mount is probably considered Purdue's all-time best player. Mount still has the all-time Purdue scoring record, without benefit of the 3-pointer. But I don't think he had that great of an NBA career.
The 3-point shot totally changed the game, and not necessarily for the better other than allowing physically inferior teams to get hot and upset better teams. But without doing research, I'm also pretty sure that scoring has gone DOWN since the 3-point shot was added in 1986-87. So, Lindner's 27 ppg may be the equivalent of 20 ppg now - still pretty darn good, obviously.
As for my starting five, I'd say the five mentioned by the chef is a good list, although I've never quite been as infatuated with Dan Oppland as others. In the Homer era, the others to be considered have to be Redmon and Zoran. And maybe Brian Sommer. :)
I haven't seen them all but I have a hard time not having David Redmon in my top 5.
Drew
Redmon
Barton
Allison
Grafs
Quote from: Valpo89 on May 20, 2011, 08:41:10 AM
Quote from: vu72 on May 20, 2011, 06:20:49 AM
Anyway you cut it Bruce Lindner has to be in the top 5, and I could make arguments for many others too. But just think about Bruce for a moment.
He averaged 27.9 ppg in his senior season and this was BEFORE the three point shot. He also shot 89% from the foul line and scored 51 in a single game. I would venture a guess that half of those points were made from distance so, with today's 3 point line that 51 could have more like 60! One hell of a guy and player. Say hello to him some time. He's a season ticket holder.
VU72, I appreciate your input and I know Lindner was a good player. I never saw him play, and I wish I would have. Your argument about the numbers also makes a lot of sense.
However I just think it's too difficult to compare eras, especially from the 1960s when the game was much, much more "run and gun" and officials actually called a foul a foul - not allowing today's "lock-down" defense.
I have no doubt, however, that Lindner could be considered one of VU's all-time best - just as Rick Mount is probably considered Purdue's all-time best player. Mount still has the all-time Purdue scoring record, without benefit of the 3-pointer. But I don't think he had that great of an NBA career.
The 3-point shot totally changed the game, and not necessarily for the better other than allowing physically inferior teams to get hot and upset better teams. But without doing research, I'm also pretty sure that scoring has gone DOWN since the 3-point shot was added in 1986-87. So, Lindner's 27 ppg may be the equivalent of 20 ppg now - still pretty darn good, obviously.
As for my starting five, I'd say the five mentioned by the chef is a good list, although I've never quite been as infatuated with Dan Oppland as others. In the Homer era, the others to be considered have to be Redmon and Zoran. And maybe Brian Sommer. :)
As always 89, your imput is valuable and I'm not really in a position to challenge the notion about the game changing. I will say that there was a big difference between how Homer ran his teams, for the most part and how Gene Bartow ran his.
I did see the 66-67 team play, which included Tommy Smith at the point and Dick Jones at the 2. Also on that team was Steve Cook at the 5 who was maybe 6'6". That team holds the all time scoring record, again, without benefit of the 3 pt shot. They ran like crazy and I wish you guys could have seen Tom Smith distribute the ball. By the way, Smith was maybe 5'8" but could run and shoot. Anyway, at one game I was at Smith is racing down the floor suddenly looked into the stands and let a pass go which ended up in the hands of another streaking in for a break away layup. I swear, the people in the crowd actually ducked, thinking they were going to have the ball in their laps. He was that kind of a player, yet the glory went to guys like Cook and Jones. To add to the story Steve Cook, to this day still holds the 100 yard dash record at 9.9 I think, so you get the idea about what kind of athletes were on that team. That was the year Valpo beat Purdue, although rlh would say it was an off year for the Boilers.
Players worked extremely hard to better their game even with limited ability. And they ran and ran like soccer players. They also didn't have their heads filled with ideas from coaches that they were the greatest thing in short shorts headed for the NBA. Coaches like Wooden and Bartow treated them with gentlemenly respect.
Quote from: bbtds on May 20, 2011, 10:08:43 AM
Players worked extremely hard to better their game even with limited ability. And they ran and ran like soccer players. They also didn't have their heads filled with ideas from coaches that they were the greatest thing in short shorts headed for the NBA. Coaches like Wooden and Bartow treated them with gentlemenly respect.
And, parents probably weren't breathing down the necks of every recruiter/coach who came around. Or harassed the coaching staff. Different era in many regards.
72 - if Tom Smith had been as good of a coach as he was a player, maybe we wouldn't be discussing Homer and Bryce at all. :)
Actually, I think Smith has had a lot of success at the NAIA in Missouri. Maybe he didn't get the same support that Homer got once he arrived.
That's why I think it would be cool to see footage of the games from back then.
Now I'll tell you another Tom Smith story that addresses your point.
I ran into Tom in Minneapolis probably not long after Homer was hired. His attitude had nothing to do with Homer, but he wasn't a happy camper relative to Valpo or Valpo's chances of success at the D1 level. so here's the story: This goes back to Cleveland State's success in the tourney in what? 1989? Anyway, Tom was talking to the then President of Valpo and telling him about how everyone in the conference shared the money and so it was a good thing for Valpo athletics. so you'd think the President would have encourage Tom and said how it would be good for Valpo to gain similar success in basketball. Wrong. Instead the president said, "Well, let's hope that Cleveland State continues to do well then". True story.
Great story. Cleveland State's NCAA run was in 1986. They beat IU in the first round. It was my freshman year at IU and very embarrassing, but I knew Cleveland State was good, knowing their history at the time of being in the Mid-Con and playing against VU.
Of course, the next year IU had a little bit more success in the tournament. :)
I went to high school with Todd Smith. Good guy.
Just a different time for VU. Tom Smith didn't get a lot of help from the administration, and of course there's stories that Tom used to have a lot of "fun" as coach. :)
Funny you guys should bring this up. I'll have something interesting on my NWI blog in the next day or so about looking at some of the past teams. We may very well see how Oppland and Grafs would fare against each other. Harris against Nelke. Wood against Falu.
Quote from: Pgmado on May 20, 2011, 01:45:32 PM
Funny you guys should bring this up. I'll have something interesting on my NWI blog in the next day or so about looking at some of the past teams. We may very well see how Oppland and Grafs would fare against each other. Harris against Nelke. Wood against Falu.
Terrific. I'll look forward to it. Also, could you hurry up and report that two bigs have committed to Valpo??
Quote from: vu72 on May 20, 2011, 12:37:33 PM
Now I'll tell you another Tom Smith story that addresses your point.
I ran into Tom in Minneapolis probably not long after Homer was hired. His attitude had nothing to do with Homer, but he wasn't a happy camper relative to Valpo or Valpo's chances of success at the D1 level. so here's the story: This goes back to Cleveland State's success in the tourney in what? 1989? Anyway, Tom was talking to the then President of Valpo and telling him about how everyone in the conference shared the money and so it was a good thing for Valpo athletics. so you'd think the President would have encourage Tom and said how it would be good for Valpo to gain similar success in basketball. Wrong. Instead the president said, "Well, let's hope that Cleveland State continues to do well then". True story.
That adds weight to my already pretty low opinion of Alan Harre. I know he did (was around for) a lot of important things for Valpo but I always thought he was kind of obtuse.
This is a fun and interesting thread. Good choices so far, and while I can't necessarily disagree with any of the names posted, for me it's difficult to have an all-time list without Tracey Gipson on it. Before Bryce, he was VU's all-time leading scorer and was really fun to watch. He sometimes gets lost in the crowd because he played right before the VU program turned the corner in the mid 90's. When you think about what he was able to do with very little around him (no disrespect to anyone on those teams), he is definitely on my list. It would've been really interesting to think what he would have been able to accomplish if he had the opportunity to play with some of the players that came right after him (Casey, Dave, Bryce, etc.)
Quote from: vurich on May 20, 2011, 02:54:39 PM
This is a fun and interesting thread. Good choices so far, and while I can't necessarily disagree with any of the names posted, for me it's difficult to have an all-time list without Tracey Gipson on it. Before Bryce, he was VU's all-time leading scorer and was really fun to watch. He sometimes gets lost in the crowd because he played right before the VU program turned the corner in the mid 90's. When you think about what he was able to do with very little around him (no disrespect to anyone on those teams), he is definitely on my list. It would've been really interesting to think what he would have been able to accomplish if he had the opportunity to play with some of the players that came right after him (Casey, Dave, Bryce, etc.)
Although I would agree with the starting five mentioned at the top of this thread, and I would include Redmon as a sixth man (my favorite to watch play because he could score from anywhere after passing the half-court line), I was hoping someone would mention Tracy Gipson. During those years before team success, Gipson's play was the main reason for enjoyment when attending VU games.
Tracy Gipson was an absolute delight to watch. He carried that team when there wasnt much talent. The kid could flat out play...and had considerable hops. Does anyone know where he is these days?
We started attending in 1984 or so. Dan Palumbezio of Ball State came in for a game and we attended, then the next year picked up season tix. There was a group of four families and we had a blast. When Bryce came along, they kicked us out of the chairbacks and we ended up behind the scorers table and had even more fun.
Does anyone recall the Harry Bell/Jim Ford era? Both undersized (6'4 & 6'5), they were the bigs of the mid 80's.
I am going to say that my VU team would include one of the Jenkins twins for mental and physical toughness. Those young men were intense. No, they didnt score huge numbers, but they were players.
Chris Emsminger will probably not make the team, but has there every been a young man that improved as much as he did?
Lubos Barton was a little too slow to be a guard, but as a #3...just about perfect. Anthony Allison could flat out score at the #3. Dave Redmon was very talented. When VU was winning MidCon yearly, we always had the leagues best small forward. Always.
I have nothing to base this on other than childhood admiration back in the 60's, but I was a big fan of Chuck Christian (I believe he played for Coach Meadows) and Rich Enon a few years later.
Quote from: humbleopinion on May 20, 2011, 07:51:09 PM
I have nothing to base this on other than childhood admiration back in the 60's, but I was a big fan of Chuck Christian (I believe he played for Coach Meadows) and Rich Enon a few years later.
That would be Chuck Kriston and yes, he still shows up on some top Valpo stats. I was a high schooler when Chuck graduated and he was our boss at Camp Concordia in Michigan. A wonderful man and a great player!
Quote from: vu72 on May 20, 2011, 07:56:16 PM
Quote from: humbleopinion on May 20, 2011, 07:51:09 PM
I have nothing to base this on other than childhood admiration back in the 60's, but I was a big fan of Chuck Christian (I believe he played for Coach Meadows) and Rich Enon a few years later.
That would be Chuck Kriston and yes, he still shows up on some top Valpo stats. I was a high schooler when Chuck graduated and he was our boss at Camp Concordia in Michigan. A wonderful man and a great player!
Thanks. I guess I've been mispronouncing his name for nearly fifty years. And sometime we'll talk about Camp Concordia.
BTW, was I right about Meadows? I can't remember exactly when he left.
Quote from: valpofan56 on May 20, 2011, 02:17:59 PM
Quote from: vu72 on May 20, 2011, 12:37:33 PM
Now I'll tell you another Tom Smith story that addresses your point.
I ran into Tom in Minneapolis probably not long after Homer was hired. His attitude had nothing to do with Homer, but he wasn't a happy camper relative to Valpo or Valpo's chances of success at the D1 level. so here's the story: This goes back to Cleveland State's success in the tourney in what? 1989? Anyway, Tom was talking to the then President of Valpo and telling him about how everyone in the conference shared the money and so it was a good thing for Valpo athletics. so you'd think the President would have encourage Tom and said how it would be good for Valpo to gain similar success in basketball. Wrong. Instead the president said, "Well, let's hope that Cleveland State continues to do well then". True story.
That adds weight to my already pretty low opinion of Alan Harre. I know he did (was around for) a lot of important things for Valpo but I always thought he was kind of obtuse.
Actually Alan took office in 1989 and the man in question was not Harre but his predessor, Robert Schnabel. Schnabel was a true academic, the first non-clergy President and a graduate of Harvard I think. Basketball was far from his high priority list at that time.
Guys, I'm really enjoying the history lesson here. I know relatively little about the early days of Valpo basketball, but I eat this stuff up. Thanks for posting!
Quote from: vu72 on May 20, 2011, 08:15:46 PM
Quote from: valpofan56 on May 20, 2011, 02:17:59 PM
Quote from: vu72 on May 20, 2011, 12:37:33 PM
Now I'll tell you another Tom Smith story that addresses your point.
I ran into Tom in Minneapolis probably not long after Homer was hired. His attitude had nothing to do with Homer, but he wasn't a happy camper relative to Valpo or Valpo's chances of success at the D1 level. so here's the story: This goes back to Cleveland State's success in the tourney in what? 1989? Anyway, Tom was talking to the then President of Valpo and telling him about how everyone in the conference shared the money and so it was a good thing for Valpo athletics. so you'd think the President would have encourage Tom and said how it would be good for Valpo to gain similar success in basketball. Wrong. Instead the president said, "Well, let's hope that Cleveland State continues to do well then". True story.
That adds weight to my already pretty low opinion of Alan Harre. I know he did (was around for) a lot of important things for Valpo but I always thought he was kind of obtuse.
Actually Alan took office in 1989 and the man in question was not Harre but his predessor, Robert Schnabel. Schnabel was a true academic, the first non-clergy President and a graduate of Harvard I think. Basketball was far from his high priority list at that time.
Ahh, my bad. I thought I remembered that Harre started in '87.
This is sort of off-topic, but how do you guys see the new president working with athletics? I know he is a bit younger, but have we seen things in him that lead you to believe support for athletics will change?
Everyone was close, but Alan Harre was president from 1988-2008.
President Heckler understands the marketing value of athletics and the importance of successful mind, body and spirit. He believes that athletics can be a front porch for a University so that it has to be both tended to, supported and nurtured but be under control and meeting its mission. Successful teams are a very important part of that equation. But also important is having facilities that all students can benefit from, eg the bookstore weight training facility and hopefully a state of the art student athletic facility.
Quote from: valpo84 on May 24, 2011, 01:01:36 AM
President Heckler understands the marketing value of athletics and the importance of successful mind, body and spirit. He believes that athletics can be a front porch for a University so that it has to be both tended to, supported and nurtured but be under control and meeting its mission. Successful teams are a very important part of that equation. But also important is having facilities that all students can benefit from, eg the bookstore weight training facility and hopefully a state of the art student athletic facility.
This sounds good...has he made any practical application of that mentality?
I have enjoyed my contact with both Harre and Heckler. Each has been good for VU, but they definitely have differing styles and interests.
I always admired the regular attendance and enthusiasm at games by Harre and his wife, who made a habit of keeping a scorecard. Since their season-ticket seats were right near mine, I would know they were there and sometimes spoke with them about the games. They were certainly fans of VU basketball.
I haven't seen Heckler as a regular attendee at basketball games; although, I don't mean this to be a criticism since he may have sat somewhere I didn't notice, and I am sure he is very busy. Also, I have seen Heckler very active in attending a number of other campus events, especially those concerning various arts and theater, where I expressed to him my appreciation for his support of those activities.
Quote from: vurich on May 20, 2011, 02:54:39 PM
This is a fun and interesting thread.
Thanks for your support! Really trying to up the level of posting around here
I'm only applying my Valpo lineup from 1999-present because I didn't really see some of the guys who really helped build the Valpo basketball program, but I would go this route with my five guys...
G-Diebler--always keeping his eye on the ball, and playing wherever the ball is going. He might not have been a big time scorer, but as a ballhandler, I'll take his point guard work and defense over a point guard that will just shot the ball when he has the open shot.
G-Barton--I put Lubos at the 2 because he could score the ball from anywhere. He put a lot out of the court, and did what had to be done to keep us in games.
F-Stovall--Milo might have been more of a 2 than a 3, but Stovall wasn't afraid to get inside and be a tough boarder when we needed him to get in and get some boards for us. He could shoot as well, but with Barton and my next two picks, he didn't have to bear a huge scoring load on this team.
F-Dan Oppland--He never met a shot he wouldn't take, and he would bang to get them. He also never met a ball he wouldn't try to get to. He had a scoring touch that really kept in games in the late Mid-Con years that I was happy to have on the roster. He also got in and challenged the boards for rebounds that he could get nice, hard put backs with.
C-Grafs--Raitis might have never been the best, but he came in as a kid who was ready for the college game, unlike a lot of foreign recruits from countries where soccer(futbol) is the major sport. He wasn't afraid to bang, could have used a little bigger body, but he was a good kid, and awesome to watch play.
6th man--I would have to go with Greg Tonagel because he had so much court vision and ability to keep the team in the game with his ball smarts and floor leadership. Sure, most 6th men are 4 or 5s that can bang on the inside, but I don't remember too many like this from the time frame I made, so I went for Greg because he would be a great floor coach/ball handler.
Quote from: valporun on May 24, 2011, 03:38:07 PM
6th man--I would have to go with Greg Tonagel because he had so much court vision and ability to keep the team in the game with his ball smarts and floor leadership. Sure, most 6th men are 4 or 5s that can bang on the inside, but I don't remember too many like this from the time frame I made, so I went for Greg because he would be a great floor coach/ball handler.
Greg Tonagel was the only VU player I remember seeing who I thought was very reliable on two important aspects of the game: (1) crisp passing, and (2) moving to the pass. I swear, even with Butler, I see lots of one-handed long-arm passes that look casual, maybe because that's the way the game is played now. I never saw an opponent steal a pass meant for Greg Tonagel. He knew how to cut off the attempt by moving *to* the ball.
My experience begins in 2001, of course, so I can't speak for earlier seasons.
Quote from: valporun on May 24, 2011, 03:38:07 PM
I'm only applying my Valpo lineup from 1999-present because I didn't really see some of the guys who really helped build the Valpo basketball program, but I would go this route with my five guys...
G-Diebler--always keeping his eye on the ball, and playing wherever the ball is going. He might not have been a big time scorer, but as a ballhandler, I'll take his point guard work and defense over a point guard that will just shot the ball when he has the open shot.
G-Barton--I put Lubos at the 2 because he could score the ball from anywhere. He put a lot out of the court, and did what had to be done to keep us in games.
F-Stovall--Milo might have been more of a 2 than a 3, but Stovall wasn't afraid to get inside and be a tough boarder when we needed him to get in and get some boards for us. He could shoot as well, but with Barton and my next two picks, he didn't have to bear a huge scoring load on this team.
F-Dan Oppland--He never met a shot he wouldn't take, and he would bang to get them. He also never met a ball he wouldn't try to get to. He had a scoring touch that really kept in games in the late Mid-Con years that I was happy to have on the roster. He also got in and challenged the boards for rebounds that he could get nice, hard put backs with.
C-Grafs--Raitis might have never been the best, but he came in as a kid who was ready for the college game, unlike a lot of foreign recruits from countries where soccer(futbol) is the major sport. He wasn't afraid to bang, could have used a little bigger body, but he was a good kid, and awesome to watch play.
6th man--I would have to go with Greg Tonagel because he had so much court vision and ability to keep the team in the game with his ball smarts and floor leadership. Sure, most 6th men are 4 or 5s that can bang on the inside, but I don't remember too many like this from the time frame I made, so I went for Greg because he would be a great floor coach/ball handler.
Loved all of these guys...not sure I could totally agree that each was the best at his position, but I would not be afraid to go to battle with that crew. Good selections and thoughts
Quote from: StlVUFan on May 24, 2011, 04:53:36 PM
Quote from: valporun on May 24, 2011, 03:38:07 PM
6th man--I would have to go with Greg Tonagel because he had so much court vision and ability to keep the team in the game with his ball smarts and floor leadership. Sure, most 6th men are 4 or 5s that can bang on the inside, but I don't remember too many like this from the time frame I made, so I went for Greg because he would be a great floor coach/ball handler.
Greg Tonagel was the only VU player I remember seeing who I thought was very reliable on two important aspects of the game: (1) crisp passing, and (2) moving to the pass. I swear, even with Butler, I see lots of one-handed long-arm passes that look casual, maybe because that's the way the game is played now. I never saw an opponent steal a pass meant for Greg Tonagel. He knew how to cut off the attempt by moving *to* the ball.
My experience begins in 2001, of course, so I can't speak for earlier seasons.
Started GOING to VU in 2001 or started WATCHING in 2001? What led you to VU basketball?
Tonagel was one of the smartest and most dependable ball handlers VU has had, and he was like another coach on the floor, which may be why I'm not surprised by his subsequent success as a head coach. I always had confidence when he brought the ball across half court, and when he was fouled, there was no need to worry about him making the charity shots. However, Greg could have been a Valpo legend had he made that one last-second shot in Chicago to beat Notre Dame. I can visualize the arc and angle of the shot from where I was sitting at the United Center, and as I freeze the ball in my mind, I still think he is going to make it.
GT was the most underrated player at Valpo over the last 20 years. He decision making was second to none. He did so many little things that went often overlooked.
I will add that GT is a great guy and Christian...doesn't change his play on the floor, but he was the whole package of basketball leadership.
I'll add to the Greg Tonagel celebration here. He was a fantastic player and I often wonder what could have been if his body held up. He learned alot of what he knew on the court from his father Hugh who was also a fantastic human being. Hugh played at Purdue before injuries cut his career short. There's a whole generation of basketball players in LaPorte who owe their game to Hugh. He taught without lecturing, and helped you even if you weren't his kid.
I think there were a lot of things that contributed to Greg's game, but in the end he played the game the way it should be played.
Quote from: dcvalpo on May 24, 2011, 05:05:01 PM
Quote from: StlVUFan on May 24, 2011, 04:53:36 PM
Quote from: valporun on May 24, 2011, 03:38:07 PM
6th man--I would have to go with Greg Tonagel because he had so much court vision and ability to keep the team in the game with his ball smarts and floor leadership. Sure, most 6th men are 4 or 5s that can bang on the inside, but I don't remember too many like this from the time frame I made, so I went for Greg because he would be a great floor coach/ball handler.
Greg Tonagel was the only VU player I remember seeing who I thought was very reliable on two important aspects of the game: (1) crisp passing, and (2) moving to the pass. I swear, even with Butler, I see lots of one-handed long-arm passes that look casual, maybe because that's the way the game is played now. I never saw an opponent steal a pass meant for Greg Tonagel. He knew how to cut off the attempt by moving *to* the ball.
My experience begins in 2001, of course, so I can't speak for earlier seasons.
Started GOING to VU in 2001 or started WATCHING in 2001? What led you to VU basketball?
Started being a serious fan in 2001. What led me to VU basketball is the obvious: The Shot.
Quote from: StlVUFan on May 24, 2011, 08:58:49 PM
Quote from: dcvalpo on May 24, 2011, 05:05:01 PM
Quote from: StlVUFan on May 24, 2011, 04:53:36 PM
Quote from: valporun on May 24, 2011, 03:38:07 PM
6th man--I would have to go with Greg Tonagel because he had so much court vision and ability to keep the team in the game with his ball smarts and floor leadership. Sure, most 6th men are 4 or 5s that can bang on the inside, but I don't remember too many like this from the time frame I made, so I went for Greg because he would be a great floor coach/ball handler.
Greg Tonagel was the only VU player I remember seeing who I thought was very reliable on two important aspects of the game: (1) crisp passing, and (2) moving to the pass. I swear, even with Butler, I see lots of one-handed long-arm passes that look casual, maybe because that's the way the game is played now. I never saw an opponent steal a pass meant for Greg Tonagel. He knew how to cut off the attempt by moving *to* the ball.
My experience begins in 2001, of course, so I can't speak for earlier seasons.
Started GOING to VU in 2001 or started WATCHING in 2001? What led you to VU basketball?
Started being a serious fan in 2001. What led me to VU basketball is the obvious: The Shot.
With your knowledge and message board savvy, I assumed you had been a lifer! Well, glad to have you aboard!
as i hear about all these past valpo greats, it makes me wish i could have been there to watch them play. i have not been a follower of the program for too long, as i started following just a few years ago. i look forward to many great years as a valpo fan though!
Quote from: DMvalpo18 on May 24, 2011, 09:18:56 PM
as i hear about all these past valpo greats, it makes me wish i could have been there to watch them play. i have not been a follower of the program for too long, as i started following just a few years ago. i look forward to many great years as a valpo fan though!
Well, you're in the right place if you want to learn! With guys like rlh, 72, Stl, sectionee, and myself, among others, there is a great deal of knowledge here on this board. We are always glad to help out and talk about the good ol' days!
Found this thread from a couple years back interesting - guessing there's another player who's a much bigger part of the conversation now...
what happened to this "dcvalpo"?
You have to include Bielke,Dille and Doerhman(sp.)in the mix. Hell, Bielke almost single handily beat Villanova in the Palestra back in '53. And Dille,he was the best of the lot. Book it! :thumbsup:
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on January 21, 2013, 03:55:37 PM
what happened to this "dcvalpo"?
Apostle, it is kind of a long story....
Ha, he may still be lurking these parts under an assumed name
Admittedly, I have only seen Valpo basketball since the early 80s
G - Drew (sort of obvious)
G - Stovall (his all-around game was great)
F - Barton (I think Broekhoff is great, but have to give a slight edge to Lubos)
F - Schmidt
C - Viskovic
2nd Team
C - Ensminger (Grafs was good, but Ensminger worked harder than anyone and was the best rebounder ever)
G - Redmon
G - Sykes (a really smart clutch player - though I certainly could have gone with Gipson)
F - Broekhoff
F - D. Oppland
John Wolfenberg got Valpo to it's first NCAA. Best range of any Valpo big I've ever seen.
I don't think this is going out on a limb, but Broekhoff is the 2nd best player to put on a Valpo uniform in the Drew era.
Quote from: chef on January 21, 2013, 06:00:00 PMI don't think this is going out on a limb, but Broekhoff is the 2nd best player to put on a Valpo uniform in the Drew era.
You really thought Tony Falu was that good, huh?
Alright for sake of argument I'll give you my top 7 in order. I chose 7, because I think these 7 are clearly a notch above the rest.
1. Drew
2. Broekhoff
3. Barton
4. Oppland
5. Grafs
6. Schmidt
7. Viskovic
Quote from: chef on January 21, 2013, 06:19:20 PM
Alright for sake of argument I'll give you my top 7 in order. I chose 7, because I think these 7 are clearly a notch above the rest.
1. Drew
2. Broekhoff
3. Barton
4. Oppland
5. Grafs
6. Schmidt
7. Viskovic
The original poster asked for the top 5. Stop trolling.
Quote from: vusupporter on January 21, 2013, 03:36:07 PM
Found this thread from a couple years back interesting - guessing there's another player who's a much bigger part of the conversation now...
Thanks for resurrecting this! I would love to go back and see some of the other gems from dcvalpo...this is a great conversation and I wouldn't be surprised if there is more gold from this guy.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on January 21, 2013, 03:55:37 PM
what happened to this "dcvalpo"?
I do wonder the same thing. He seems like a guy that you would get along with REALLY well, Apostle. Almost a little TOO well. Seems like you came on the scene when he disappeared.....things that make ya go hmmmmmmmmm.
all right all right.
anyway, this is classic offseason stuff. let's save it for the six months of the year we DON'T have actual happening basketball to speak of.
Apostle, hit us with a new interesting thread! I'm up for some conversation, but the game threads tend to be a drag sometimes. You always post great stuff and I think it would do the board some good to loosen up and have a little fun.
Yeah, like Apostle is the one who needs to loosen up! Just read his posts.
This is an interesting topic, one that made me rejoin the forum.
I have missed probably 6 games since 1984 (missed Brett Blizzard with UNCW and was pissed) and I think Chef is dead on. The only change I would make is Grafs ahead of Oppland.
No doubt Ryan is #2 best ever in a Valpo uni. Even off the court this kid ranks high as one of the best representations of Valpo athletics. Talking to him and hearing his interviews on ESPN he's a super kid. He really represents the university well.
Grafs and Lubos should have won a tourney game. I rank them as the most underachieving team of all time with the Oppland, Howard, Ali, Kone team at second.
I'll chime in with a list of "Game Changers" ... in their day.
Bryce
Tracy Gipson (I remember saying that when he left in 10-years everyone will remember him...it's been about 20 and I still do.
Lindner
Ensminger
Vern Curtis (led the team in scoring and rebounding
dcvalpo caused Chairback to rejoin the forum...that is really neat.
Quote from: chef on January 21, 2013, 06:00:00 PM
I don't think this is going out on a limb, but Broekhoff is the 2nd best player to put on a Valpo uniform in the Drew era.
chef and I have had these debates before, but this time, I'll agree! The other players are obviously Dan Oppland and Lubos Barton. Dan is third all time in scoring and rebounding and Lubos is 1st all time in steals, four in scoring and fourth in rebounding. Lubos puts up one heck of a resume.
Once the dust settles Ryan may have the single season record for free throw % as well as 3 pt %. He will in all likelihood be at or near the top of rebounding (passing both Dan and Lubos).
Where he ends up in points is beyond me and I'll look to apostle for judgement here.
In spite of the accomplishments of Dan and Lubos, I think it is fair to say Ryan is number two. the other factor to consider is their impact on the team with which they played. Remember that Lubos, in particular, played directly in the shadow of Bryce. He was a freshman the year after Bryce graduated. So he comes in and drops something like 25 on South Carolina in his freshman debut. That has to be the greatest entry game at Valpo in history!
Nonetheless, when judging the full impact of the body of work, I'll go with Ryan. Now, history will be the final judge and that may ride on the season result. Lubos took the team to the NCAAs, can Ryan get it done??
Quote from: vu72 on January 21, 2013, 07:53:03 PMThat has to be the greatest entry game at Valpo in history!
For a freshman, most likely; but for a Valpo player, don't forget the debut of Michigan State's Best Player.
Bump...seems someone else might be in the conversation now...
Besides the obvious...what about Vashil? He's certainly in the team photograph.
1st Team:
Bryce Drew
Bruce Lindner
Lubos Barton
Alec Peters
Ratis Grafs
2nd Team:
Tracy Gipson
David Redmon
Ryan Broekhoff
Dan Oppland
Chris Ensminger
Drew
Broekoff
Barton
Peters
Grafs
Bench:
Oppland
Lindner
Mo Smith
Gipson
Redmon
Fernandez
Viskovic
Simmons
Harre started in 1988, and I thought he did well, Shorty Schnabel was very much an academic enabler who did not care about athletics.
I really like where Heckler's vision however - just need to upgrade or replace the ARC.
No all time VU team would be complete without Bob Dille and Dick Jones.
Paul
OK, how about the worst or infamous players in VU history?
Rob Harden
Greg Mostello
JP Tenuta would go on the infamous list
I would think that Antonio Falu would go on that infamous list. He seems to have turned things around since then.
Kelvin Henderson
Bryce drew
Scott Anselm
Rob Cavanaugh
Casey Schmidt
Mike Jones
Dave Redmond
Todd Smith
Quote from: valpospartan on June 02, 2016, 05:16:07 PM
Bryce drew
Scott Anselm
Rob Cavanaugh
Casey Schmidt
Mike Jones
Dave Redmond
Todd Smith
Funny you should list Todd as I thought his dad was a much better player and one of the most exciting small points you'll ever have watched play. I'm with talksalot in also mentioning Vern Curtis. That team,including Tom Smith and Dick Jones, averaged over 90 points BEFORE the 3 point line came into play. Bruce Lindner has also have to be in the top 10.
Quote from: vu72 on June 02, 2016, 06:05:26 PM
Quote from: valpospartan on June 02, 2016, 05:16:07 PM
Bryce drew
Scott Anselm
Rob Cavanaugh
Casey Schmidt
Mike Jones
Dave Redmond
Todd Smith
Funny you should list Todd as I thought his dad was a much better player and one of the most exciting small points you'll ever have watched play. I'm with talksalot in also mentioning Vern Curtis. That team,including Tom Smith and Dick Jones, averaged over 90 points BEFORE the 3 point line came into play. Bruce Lindner has also have to be in the top 10.
Let's mention Rich Eynon and Steve Cook and center Ken Rakow to complete the note.
Quote from: vu72 on June 02, 2016, 06:05:26 PM
Quote from: valpospartan on June 02, 2016, 05:16:07 PM
Bryce drew
Scott Anselm
Rob Cavanaugh
Casey Schmidt
Mike Jones
Dave Redmond
Todd Smith
Funny you should list Todd as I thought his dad was a much better player and one of the most exciting small points you'll ever have watched play. I'm with talksalot in also mentioning Vern Curtis. That team,including Tom Smith and Dick Jones, averaged over 90 points BEFORE the 3 point line came into play. Bruce Lindner has also have to be in the top 10.
I guess I have to come clean: I was listing my all former Valpo high school team.
Quote from: VULB#62 on June 02, 2016, 06:33:55 PM
Quote from: vu72 on June 02, 2016, 06:05:26 PM
Quote from: valpospartan on June 02, 2016, 05:16:07 PM
Bryce drew
Scott Anselm
Rob Cavanaugh
Casey Schmidt
Mike Jones
Dave Redmond
Todd Smith
Funny you should list Todd as I thought his dad was a much better player and one of the most exciting small points you'll ever have watched play. I'm with talksalot in also mentioning Vern Curtis. That team,including Tom Smith and Dick Jones, averaged over 90 points BEFORE the 3 point line came into play. Bruce Lindner has also have to be in the top 10.
Let's mention Rich Eynon and Steve Cook and center Ken Rakow to complete the note.
Good point 62. I remembered the Steve Cook was also a track star. So I checked the record book and, yeah, he was a star to say the very least. To this day he holds school records in 55 and 60 yard indoor hurdles as well as 110 meters and 330 yard hurdles outdoors and tied for the 100 yard dash record. Amazing.
Quote from: FWalum on June 01, 2016, 10:42:05 PM
I would think that Antonio Falu would go on that infamous list. He seems to have turned things around since then.
This probably belongs in the "Where Are They Now" thread but here is what Falu is doing today. Salsa anyone?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8oacgC5sQY
I forgot that he was 6'6". For some reason, I remember him as being 6'2"-6'3".
valpotx, who was Tenuta's little buddy, Rob something, from LaPorte, wasn't it?
Quote from: valporun on July 30, 2016, 10:46:04 AM
valpotx, who was Tenuta's little buddy, Rob something, from LaPorte, wasn't it?
Rob Kesler perhaps. I think he was from Warsaw.
Quote from: IndyValpo on July 30, 2016, 12:45:50 PM
Quote from: valporun on July 30, 2016, 10:46:04 AM
valpotx, who was Tenuta's little buddy, Rob something, from LaPorte, wasn't it?
Rob Kesler perhaps. I think he was from Warsaw.
Yes, it was Rob Kesler. Once I saw the last name, the name rang the bell.