Nice team win over the hapless 'guins. Moving on down the road and changing venues with the Crusader Women.
Here's the Viking box score from their 59-54 loss to UIC
http://www.csuvikings.com/sports/m-baskbl/2016-17/boxscores/20170112_nk0j.xml
Cleveland State 39% from the field and 46% from the line.
They packed in 1393 at the Wolstein Center.
One of their starters (Anthony Wright) only played 7 minutes... gotta be a story there.
78-54 winner, lots of rest for the starters before the return home!
Valpo 75
Cleveland State 61
I would have thought by now that we'd break out of the 3-pt shooting slump. Maybe the next few games.
Valpo 77
Clev St 59
Quote from: covufan on January 13, 2017, 11:16:04 AM
I would have thought by now that we'd break out of the 3-pt shooting slump. Maybe the next few games.
We had that very good three game stretch:
11 of 22 against Indiana State
10 of 26 against Santa Clara (*sigh*)
9 of 19 against Chicago State
even 9 of 25 at Missouri State.
But then 4 of 15 (27%) was the best we'd done in conference until 6 of 18 at Youngstown.
31% for 317th in the country is not good.
Alec drove that good 3/4 game stretch, with multiple makes in each game and 40%+. But it's been mostly pretty grim otherwise. I was heartened to read, in the Bleacher Report piece, that in the opinion of one scout his 3P% this season is no big deal and that his three/four year arc speaks for itself. That he'd be one of the best shooters in the NBA from day one (that, at least, seems hyperbolic). Hopefully it's true. Certainly he's been playing a whole other ball game this year.
At least Tevonn's doing OK. 1.2 makes a game is second only to Alec, and 40% is much better than anyone but Jubril.
Not to be the rain/sleet/ice on this 3 discussion, but for those expecting a 3 pt improvement, it is not coming. This is not a good 3 pt shooting team. Period. AP drives the % and he is slumping. Shane, Tevonn, Micah, etc. are inconsistent at best and that's with wide open looks. Lexus has actually shot the 3 the 2d best on this team. Jubril's % is also not playing so that's driving it down too. There are no pure shooters on this team other than AP. It is amazing that this has happened to a Valpo team. Skara's % also was pretty good and we lost that too. Hopefully, we get some knock down 3 shooters (or Burton is one) or the prospects don't improve next year. It shows the tenacity of this team inside the paint that we are where we are at 13-4.
Quote from: covufan on January 13, 2017, 11:16:04 AM
I would have thought by now that we'd break out of the 3-pt shooting slump. Maybe the next few games.
Valpo 77
Clev St 59
I may be wrong, but it always seems that we shoot poorly at Cleveland State. I've wondered if it's that background of the photo of the fans.
Maybe it's just me, but I miss the days when Cleveland State was good. Makes things much more interesting.
QuoteMaybe it's just me, but I miss the days when Cleveland State was good. Makes things much more interesting.
I feel like Cleveland State has been treated like a funnel school the last few years since the Norris Cole days. They've recruited some very talented players but they all transfer it feels like.
Just for information here's the results so far for CSU MBB:
CLEVELAND STATE 2016-17 SCHEDULE
N KENT STATE L 74-79
N Canisius W 67-64
@ Ten. Martin L 74-85
@ Kentucky L 70-101
@ Duquesne L 71-78
@ Arkansas State L 51-78
H Bethune-Cookman W 73-62
H Western Michigan W 85-62
@ Purdue L 53-77
@ Ohio U. L 53-71
H Lake Erie W 79-62
@ Belmont L 62-79
H UWGB L 75-76
H UWM W 62-53
@ Wright State L 51-54
@ NKU L 75-83
H UIC L 54-59
H Valpo ? ??-??
500 people at the game? Of wich 250 are crusader fans.
Do teams without strong guard play tend to have long stretches without scoring over most other deficiencies ? I suppose my question is...are the 1-3 positions proportionally important OR decidedly more important?
CSU is trying something new to the game of basketball. I think they called it "full court press" or something like that. You can sure tell this is our first time ever seeing it.
We got a good dose of it from Detroit. It's fair to say we are sloooow. Don't look very athletic either. I'm talking about positions 1-3.
To be fair we lost Keith, walker, E victor and skara. That's a lot.
Bradford is wild, no body control. Hope he has an amazing off season because we need him to put on 20 lbs of muscle and calm the ______ down.
Based on his facial expressions, Smits has never been guilty of the fouls called on him. Similarly, Hammink shows a lot of negative expressions toward calls against him. This is not helpful, maybe even detrimental because refs are watching, and I don't remember that being a characteristic of our teams in the past. A sign of the target on our back?
Ok, putting it all in perspective. It's clear that the HL has (4) of the nations best full court press D's. I mean UIC, UDM, OU and now CSU...
This is a joke.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on January 14, 2017, 04:21:16 PMOk, putting it all in perspective. It's clear that the HL has (4) of the nations best full court press D's. I mean UIC, UDM, OU and now CSU... This is a joke.
I think there comes a point where it just gets in our heads. Instead of moving the ball forward, you'll see guys picking up their dribble with open floor ahead of them, or passing backwards when they could have advanced it. They get to the point where they think they're playing hot potato, and that's where trouble happens.
Agreed hammicks body language has not been good
Quote from: hailcrusaders on January 14, 2017, 04:27:43 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on January 14, 2017, 04:21:16 PMOk, putting it all in perspective. It's clear that the HL has (4) of the nations best full court press D's. I mean UIC, UDM, OU and now CSU... This is a joke.
I think there comes a point where it just gets in our heads. Instead of moving the ball forward, you'll see guys picking up their dribble with open floor ahead of them, or passing backwards when they could have advanced it. They get to the point where they think they're playing hot potato, and that's where trouble happens.
Well put, there was a large degree of hesitancy by our guards. You can see it in their entry passes to the post as well. We really are playing on pins and needles with the ball. JOSEPH had a quiet good game 8 pts 4 assists and 3 steals, showed of late. Tevonn is playing efficient and well, he's a beast on the boards. Sorolla 8 boards in the first half...Smits big pts in the second half.
I suppose my trepidation is strictly related to ball movement. Only getting 15 seconds on the shot clock to set our offense is not good.
Two, double-digit wins on the NE Ohio trip. Any Drew coach would have loved that... we "survived", now a 5-hour bus ride and some rest. Too bad Alec couldn't get that last rebound. 30-9 is not a bad stat line!
We really miss Jubril in the press D. He often came in at the 5 for Vahsil when opponents pressed us. It's ideal because he is tall enough to catch the third to half court pass and, if he has to put it on the deck, has the handles of a decent 3. Made good decisions, never rushed. Combine with the departure of four guys playing the 1-3, we fortunate the be where we are. As the season continues, I would expect smits and sorolla to develop against the press. I am sure bradford will improve as well, but I am really struggling to see why he is getting so many minutes right now. Moving lexus to the bench gives us some 6th man energy, and it may be that he is starting to wear down physically...
We shot 19% from 3 point. If I coached against the Crusaders I would dial up the full court press and then just pack it in forcing Valpo too have to settle for 3's. Very Very poor 3 point shooting team.
Quote from: oklahomamick on January 14, 2017, 05:18:32 PM
We shot 19% from 3 point. If I coached against the Crusaders I would dial up the full court press and then just pack it in forcing Valpo too have to settle for 3's. Very Very poor 3 point shooting team.
I'm far from a coach, but I wonder at what point we just go with works.... hard to argue with making 30 free throws and two big guys with way above average post offense for freshmen... why we don't do more of this is beyond me... at what point do we quit the threes
of course, as oklahomamick mentions, any coach with half a brain will press us all season.... High TO count, poor 3 point shooting, shallow bench. A recipe for the press...
For example, this is (in a tie) the worst we have shot the 3 in the 17 seasons ESPN provides data for.
We shot 11 3's today. That's just one off our low in a single game over the last two years. 4 of them were from Walker, who came into the game hitting 40% from 3. 4 of them from Peters.
Our turnover rate today was our second-lowest of the season, only topped by the Southern Utah game.
Quote from: JPEven on January 14, 2017, 05:45:53 PM
For example, this is (in a tie) the worst we have shot the 3 in the 17 seasons ESPN provides data for.
Good point. This team is shooting the best free throw percentage of any of our teams in the 17 seasons for which ESPN provides data. We are shooting 7.1% better than our previous best year (06-07) and an incredible 19.4% better than our worst year (08-09)!!
Here's the box score...
http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/boxscore/2016-17/5940/at-cleveland-state-01-14-2017/
Good minutes-distribution... Need the crowd in the ARC on Monday to bring this one home!
One of my favorite plays from the game was when Shane drove the lane and just went up and over everyone. He drew the foul but he went in there with bad intentions for the rim. That's what I want him to do when he drives.
Quote from: talksalot on January 14, 2017, 07:02:39 PM
Here's the box score...
http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/boxscore/2016-17/5940/at-cleveland-state-01-14-2017/
Good minutes-distribution... Need the crowd in the ARC on Monday to bring this one home!
SHANE Hammink 1 Reb @ 6'7"...seem like lack of hustle is a cause for this? Bad bounces? Bad attitude?
Solid road wins, good amount of work needed to be competitive against GB. Hopefully we continue to mature and keep that "fire in the belly" that we had BYU ALABAMA URI ISU etc
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on January 14, 2017, 07:20:01 PMSHANE Hammink 1 Reb @ 6'7"...seem like lack of hustle is a cause for this? Bad bounces? Bad attitude? Solid road wins, good amount of work needed to be competitive against GB. Hopefully we continue to mature and keep that "fire in the belly" that we had BYU ALABAMA URI ISU etc
Could be, but maybe they aren't sending him to the boards? It would seem weird to me too, but with Smirolla, Peters and, apparently, Tevon crashing the boards, the game plan could be to send Shane back on D... not a bad guy to send back - can stop ball or, if he has too, match up in the post until AP and Smirolla get back down the court.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on January 14, 2017, 04:21:16 PMOk, putting it all in perspective. It's clear that the HL has (4) of the nations best full court press D's. I mean UIC, UDM, OU and now CSU...
Anyone know what our scout team looks like? How's their press?
I see the reported attendance: 1831
based on the pictures on ESPN3... I'm guessing someone missed a hyphen. it was 18 on one side and 31 on the other.
Quote from: talksalot on January 14, 2017, 08:16:31 PM
I see the reported attendance: 1831
based on the pictures on ESPN3... I'm guessing someone missed a hyphen. it was 18 on one side and 31 on the other.
Maybe it included the "students " sitting in the end.
I was just able to watch the full replay of the game. Did anyone see that hustle play where Derrik help save the ball from going out of bounds and cause him to lose balance and fall into a few people sitting on the sideline? First great hustle. Second, at the very end of the game on the replay when they zoom out to show the whole court and while everyone is leaving to the locker room you can see Derrik running up to the people he fell into at the end of the game to apologize and make sure they were okay. Shows some great character. Rik and his wife raised their son the right way. Pretty proud to call him a Valpo Crusader.
The fan actually tweeted about the moment.
https://twitter.com/abbymcc13/status/820402598587072513
http://www.espn.com/watchespn/#type/replay/
Valpo dropped 6 spots after beating CSU last night. CSU actually moved up 7 spots. After oak lands loss to Detroit we are the only HL team in top 100. Although Oakland will probably be returning. Incoming Green Bay has the leagues 3rd best at 128.
i always thought CSU regardless if the talent was there or if it transferred, always fouled and hand checked. I never cared to watch these games because the refs couldn't keep up with the amount of fouls. They had 29 fouls last night.
Glad to see Alec put up great scoring numbers. It is too bad that he couldn't have had one more rebound to keep his double-double streak going. I hope he continues to get 15 or more field goal attempts a game along with increasing his 3-point tries. What a treat and pleasure to watch this outstanding young man play.
The way he conducts himself both on and off the court is truly exemplary.
Quote from: agibson on January 14, 2017, 07:37:36 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on January 14, 2017, 04:21:16 PMOk, putting it all in perspective. It's clear that the HL has (4) of the nations best full court press D's. I mean UIC, UDM, OU and now CSU...
Anyone know what our scout team looks like? How's their press?
It's fairly easy to fix the full court press opposition in practice. Put 6 or 7 guys pressing instead of 5.