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Per ESPN NCAA tournament bracket guru, Valpo gets favorable mention.

Started by vufan7501, December 14, 2015, 09:44:47 PM

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bbtds

Quote from: a3uge on December 15, 2015, 04:20:49 PMWe're not even remotely close to A10 consideration.

Have you seen LaSalle or Fordham's facilities? I don't think you have thought this out. Oakland's got a better facility than half of the A-10. That is the way it is out east.

http://www.goexplorers.com/sports/2011/6/14/GEN_0614112339.aspx?id=13
Tom Gola Arena has 3 courts-seats 3,400, has exit doors beyond the end baskets
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Gola_Arena

http://fordhamsports.com/sports/2013/7/17/GEN_0717130925.aspx?id=9
Rose Hill Gym (not even an arena)--3,200 seats--built in 1925
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose_Hill_Gymnasium

rink

Quote from: wh on December 15, 2015, 03:47:46 PM
Vandy's probably the best comparison. UMass, UConn, Penn, Nova and Bama come kind of close, yet unlike Valpo and Vandy they are simply a truncation of the full name.

Ole Miss?

crusaderjoe

Quote from: vu72 on December 15, 2015, 04:55:02 PM
Quote from: a3uge on December 15, 2015, 04:20:49 PM
Valpo's facilities aren't good enough for the MVC, let alone the A10. We're not even remotely close to A10 consideration.
[/b][/b]

I gotta love this over the top reaction.  What knowledge do you have of A-10 facilities?  Based on arena size we would be in the middle of the pack. Enrollment size we would be near the middle being bigger then Davidson, Richmond and St. Bonnie and about the same size as LaSalle.  Academically we are a very good fit and we sure aren't in the Horizon. We play all their sports except Women's LaCrosse (probably next new sport at Valpo), Field Hockey (they have associate members in this sport so some of their schools don't play this either), and rowing.  Both St. Louis and Dayton are Catholic so would fit nicely into the Big East.  Now that we have a track, if we do a renovation to the ARC I think we certainly would get a serious look if St. Louis or Dayton bolted.[/b]

Doubtful, IMO, especially without the presence of a Midwestern travel partner now that LUC is in the MVC.  What incentive would the A-10 have to expand to NW Indiana?  None.  We're not delivering Chicago.  SLU is a geographic outlier already.  We would need a Final Four run just to get a look by ourselves, and even then it would probably be just a passing glance.  A packaged deal of Detroit and Valpo would probably garner more interest--assuming of course that the A-10 would want to get back to 14 if SLU and Dayton left.

Valpower

Quote from: crusaderjoe on December 15, 2015, 10:24:41 PM
Doubtful, IMO, especially without the presence of a Midwestern travel partner now that LUC is in the MVC.  What incentive would the A-10 have to expand to NW Indiana?  None.  We're not delivering Chicago.  SLU is a geographic outlier already.  We would need a Final Four run just to get a look by ourselves, and even then it would probably be just a passing glance.  A packaged deal of Detroit and Valpo would probably garner more interest--assuming of course that the A-10 would want to get back to 14 if SLU and Dayton left.
Nobody's assuming that we get invited if we are one and done in the NCAA Tourney.  If we look at Butler as the model, we have to assume at most two NCAA Championship games, back to back, but honestly, a couple of Elite Eights might do the trick IF coupled with a defection, good marketing, and successful recruiting.  At that point, the neither-here-nor-there marketing quality of Northwest Indiana can be overcome by good branding.

crusaderjoe

Quote from: Valpower on December 15, 2015, 10:50:37 PM
Quote from: crusaderjoe on December 15, 2015, 10:24:41 PM
Doubtful, IMO, especially without the presence of a Midwestern travel partner now that LUC is in the MVC.  What incentive would the A-10 have to expand to NW Indiana?  None.  We're not delivering Chicago.  SLU is a geographic outlier already.  We would need a Final Four run just to get a look by ourselves, and even then it would probably be just a passing glance.  A packaged deal of Detroit and Valpo would probably garner more interest--assuming of course that the A-10 would want to get back to 14 if SLU and Dayton left.
Nobody's assuming that we get invited if we are one and done in the NCAA Tourney.  If we look at Butler as the model, we have to assume at most two NCAA Championship games, back to back, but honestly, a couple of Elite Eights might do the trick IF coupled with a defection, good marketing, and successful recruiting.  At that point, the neither-here-nor-there marketing quality of Northwest Indiana can be overcome by good branding.

Good points, but let me throw this out there.  I still don't see the incentive.  Why would the A-10 come back to Indiana when a school like Siena, which is far more geographically relevant, is already on deck now?  I believe the A-10 has had only one school in Indiana—Butler, and that was for one year.  Why would they come back here?

Absolutely, sustained tournament success is an ingredient in this analysis, and the other factors you mentioned are also relevant for sure, but we also have to remember that Butler's move came at a time in which there were national major conference realignment shifts taking place. Not to take anything away from Butler, but these shifts were clearly significant on a number of levels—at a minimum they produced splits in established conference entities (Big East / AAC) and nearly choked to death a historical FBS conference so much so that it had to cease football operations altogether (WAC).   

Butler's move to the A-10 provided a nice geographical corridor between SLU and the Ohio schools when it was made.  With SLU and Dayton gone, that need wouldn't exist.  So again, what would be the A-10's incentive to come back here, even with two or three Elite Eights in Valpo's back pocket, without massive realignment taking place?

agibson

Quote from: crusaderjoe on December 16, 2015, 07:42:47 AMeven with two or three Elite Eights in Valpo's back pocket

It's fun to dream big!  And great to have a season going where it doesn't seem patently absurd (except after a bad loss).

vu72

The logic of big time college basketball many times eludes me.  Why would the A-10 be interested in Valpo?  Maybe for the same reason the Big East wanted Creighton. A good travel partner for another member?  Uh, nope. Final Fours?  Nope.  Major market?  Nope.  High level of basketball?  Yep.  Quality academic school?  Yep.  As a practical matter, if St. Louis left and we replaced them, we would be 259 miles from Dayton and 412 miles from Pittsburgh.  Creighton's closest conference team is in Chicago at 465 miles and Milwaukee at 506 miles.  Of course, you'll respond, The Big East has the TV contract!  Perhaps.  Creighton has a high academic reputation.  If they think their student athletes can not be hindered by all the travel then I suspect Valpo would entertain an affiliation with the A-10. 

If St. Louis left, who would the A-10 go after?  Let's face it folks, it is ALL about basketball success.  Who has better name recognition who isn't already in a better conference?  Looking at the Sagarin's this morning, Valpo, ranked 43rd, would be a help right now as St. Louis is ranked 148!  We'd be ranked third behind only Dayton and GW.

Did somebody say Siena? Really?  Iona is ranked higher at 106 and Siena is at 125.  Over the last several years the results are similar. Last year's final ranking had us at 68 while Creighton was 85 and St. Louis was 261!  This year Creighton is currently at 54.  I hope the Big East didn't decide to take Creighton based on them finding another Doug McDermott!
Season Results: CBI/CIT: 2008, 2011, 2014  NIT: 2003,2012, 2016(Championship Game) 2017   NCAA: 1962,1966,1967,1969,1973,1996,1997,1998 (Sweet Sixteen),1999, 2000, 2002, 2004, 2013 and 2015

oklahomamick

CRUSADERS!!!

a3uge

The A10 isn't going to kick teams with poor facilities out, so looking at the facilities of teams that were added in the 70s misses the point. Look at the last 4 teams that were added (not going to get into the 2005 realignment when SLU and Charlotte were added).

Davidson pledged a $15 million addition to their sports complex in 2013 that included new practice courts for their basketball team. Their basketball stadium isn't the best in the A10, but it's still above the ARC - certainly the majority of their seating aren't bleachers. Their soccer stadium has an attached concourse and locker rooms and seats over 2,000. They have a separate football stadium as well.

George Mason renovated their sports complex in 2009 and have great facilities across the board. They have a 10,000 seat arena, a gymnasium solely for athletes, and a rec center for students and athletes. They've started funding for renovations to their baseball and football stadium.

VCU is building a $25 million training complex for basketball alone. They play in the 7,600 Seigel Center, built in '99 and have plans ($12 million upgrade) to increase the capacity to 10,000. They recently added $4 million in luxury suites. Their baseball team plays in a minor league stadium. Their soccer/track field is also impressive.

Butler had facilities good enough for the Big East. Hinkle Fieldhouse, already a gem, received a $34 million upgrade that began in 2011.

Facilities are more than just the basketball arena - its the practice facilities, locker rooms, pool, track, weight room, soccer fields, baseball diamonds, etc. When the MVC looked to replace Creighton in 2013, they added Loyola and raved about their facilities. I can't imagine they were all that impressed with the empty space around the track at Valpo. If Valpo wanted an invite to the MVC, they would have had to prove that they're not a Bryce Drew job offer from spiraling into irrelevancy. The fact they chose a hope that a crappy program would turn around over a program with consistent success said a lot. Valpo had an unfair advantage to begin with, of course, because they aren't directly in a large city, but the MVC obviously needed better reasons than having a good basketball team.

And this was just the MVC, let alone the A10, who would need to justify to Rhode Island and UMass why their volleyball teams now have to travel to northwest Indiana every year when SLU and Dayton may win up in the Big East in a couple of years.


VULB#62

If what the articles suggests is true....

My guess is that.....

They would have to first institute a FBS FB program (recruit for a year then play independent -- or be an associate FBS member somewhere [Sunbelt?] - for a couple of years -- and get their butts kicked ) while expanding Cessna Stadium or building a new one.  But what low FBS conference would take them knowing they will opt out soon?

Then..... apply to an FBS conference with a strong BB program (i.e., full membership) but I doubt any major FBS conference will take them as BB (without FB) and a promise of FB in the future)

That's all years down the pike.  Valpo would not be in that conversation over that period.

crusaderjoe

Quote from: vu72 on December 16, 2015, 12:04:42 PM
The logic of big time college basketball many times eludes me.  Why would the A-10 be interested in Valpo?  Maybe for the same reason the Big East wanted Creighton. A good travel partner for another member?  Uh, nope. Final Fours?  Nope.  Major market?  Nope.  High level of basketball?  Yep.  Quality academic school?  Yep.  As a practical matter, if St. Louis left and we replaced them, we would be 259 miles from Dayton and 412 miles from Pittsburgh.  Creighton's closest conference team is in Chicago at 465 miles and Milwaukee at 506 miles.  Of course, you'll respond, The Big East has the TV contract!  Perhaps.  Creighton has a high academic reputation.  If they think their student athletes can not be hindered by all the travel then I suspect Valpo would entertain an affiliation with the A-10. 

If St. Louis left, who would the A-10 go after?  Let's face it folks, it is ALL about basketball success.  Who has better name recognition who isn't already in a better conference?  Looking at the Sagarin's this morning, Valpo, ranked 43rd, would be a help right now as St. Louis is ranked 148!  We'd be ranked third behind only Dayton and GW.

Did somebody say Siena? Really?  Iona is ranked higher at 106 and Siena is at 125.  Over the last several years the results are similar. Last year's final ranking had us at 68 while Creighton was 85 and St. Louis was 261!  This year Creighton is currently at 54.  I hope the Big East didn't decide to take Creighton based on them finding another Doug McDermott!

I'd love to see VU in the A-10, but I am also realistic about the possibility.  My point about Siena is that the A-10 has a ton of options at its disposal if any school were to leave, many of whom do not provide outlier status geographically like Valpo does.  You may think my example of Siena is a hot garbage dumpster fire of an example and that is your prerogative.  However, given that the point raised was largely geographical, in an indirect way you've kind of proven my point by bringing up Iona as a school that might fit the A-10 profile even better.  The A-10 has options.

Siena is a private, Catholic school located in New York, has a decent basketball history, and plays in a facility that seats 15K.  Yes, you read that right, 15K.  That alone right there is a hell of a lot for a school from Indiana to complete with absent the backdrop of major conference realignment, IMO.  And Siena is but just one example of the competition that would be out there for any A-10 invite.


vu72

Quote from: crusaderjoe on December 16, 2015, 06:51:26 PM
Quote from: vu72 on December 16, 2015, 12:04:42 PM
The logic of big time college basketball many times eludes me.  Why would the A-10 be interested in Valpo?  Maybe for the same reason the Big East wanted Creighton. A good travel partner for another member?  Uh, nope. Final Fours?  Nope.  Major market?  Nope.  High level of basketball?  Yep.  Quality academic school?  Yep.  As a practical matter, if St. Louis left and we replaced them, we would be 259 miles from Dayton and 412 miles from Pittsburgh.  Creighton's closest conference team is in Chicago at 465 miles and Milwaukee at 506 miles.  Of course, you'll respond, The Big East has the TV contract!  Perhaps.  Creighton has a high academic reputation.  If they think their student athletes can not be hindered by all the travel then I suspect Valpo would entertain an affiliation with the A-10. 

If St. Louis left, who would the A-10 go after?  Let's face it folks, it is ALL about basketball success.  Who has better name recognition who isn't already in a better conference?  Looking at the Sagarin's this morning, Valpo, ranked 43rd, would be a help right now as St. Louis is ranked 148!  We'd be ranked third behind only Dayton and GW.

Did somebody say Siena? Really?  Iona is ranked higher at 106 and Siena is at 125.  Over the last several years the results are similar. Last year's final ranking had us at 68 while Creighton was 85 and St. Louis was 261!  This year Creighton is currently at 54.  I hope the Big East didn't decide to take Creighton based on them finding another Doug McDermott!

I'd love to see VU in the A-10, but I am also realistic about the possibility.  My point about Siena is that the A-10 has a ton of options at its disposal if any school were to leave, many of whom do not provide outlier status geographically like Valpo does.  You may think my example of Siena is a hot garbage dumpster fire of an example and that is your prerogative.  However, given that the point raised was largely geographical, in an indirect way you've kind of proven my point by bringing up Iona as a school that might fit the A-10 profile even better.  The A-10 has options.

Siena is a private, Catholic school located in New York, has a decent basketball history, and plays in a facility that seats 15K.  Yes, you read that right, 15K.  That alone right there is a hell of a lot for a school from Indiana to complete with absent the backdrop of major conference realignment, IMO.  And Siena is but just one example of the competition that would be out there for any A-10 invite.



Your points are well taken and fair.  I'm probably smoking the Valpo pipe a little too much.  It would be a very good fit for Valpo and the only possible way that even might happen is for us to continue to win and keep getting national exposure.  That, ultimately is what college basketball is all about.
Season Results: CBI/CIT: 2008, 2011, 2014  NIT: 2003,2012, 2016(Championship Game) 2017   NCAA: 1962,1966,1967,1969,1973,1996,1997,1998 (Sweet Sixteen),1999, 2000, 2002, 2004, 2013 and 2015

VULB#62

But what are their attendance figures over time?  Gotta admit that Albany NY is a really live market though.  ::) But then, so is Olean, NY (St. Bonaventure).

vu72

Speaking of the A-10, St. Louis just lost to UT Martin (OVC) 82-76 in St. Louis!  I would think Coach Crews in on a very short leash now that the Majarus recruits have graduated or left.  I think Keith Carter made a very smart move!!   :thewave:
Season Results: CBI/CIT: 2008, 2011, 2014  NIT: 2003,2012, 2016(Championship Game) 2017   NCAA: 1962,1966,1967,1969,1973,1996,1997,1998 (Sweet Sixteen),1999, 2000, 2002, 2004, 2013 and 2015

vu84v2

I read all of this about needing a new or renovated arena. I read about how people want Valpo to spend money to keep Bryce. I read about desires to move to the A-10 or MVC. In all of these discussions, no one talks about attendance at games with quality opponents. Iona had 2700. Belmont had a stated attendance of 3300, but the picture on Valpo's website of a play by David Skara shows a mostly empty upper deck (so I am doubtful if 3300 is real). I am sure that most here are more loyal fans, but the honest truth is that people are not spending their money and time to go to games. Any sane executive decision maker is going to ask why spend a lot of money when there is not sufficient interest.

I honestly do not believe that better PR and marketing will make the difference. I read an academic study recently that looked at a mid-major program and how to increase attendance. The  significant factors that drive attendance are perceived quality of the team and perceived quality of the opponents. You need to solve these issues to get consistent attendance that will, in turn, drive a business plan that supports a major capital spend. Trying to market a game against a non-D1 opponent or a non-respected opponent like IPFW or Chicago State is not going to help.

My recommended plan (in order):
1. Pay Bryce to keep him, but have a strong backup plan (Powell?)
2. Win
3. Win in the tournament and advance - this must be done multiple times.
4. Play anyone anywhere and build an even stronger national reputation.
5. Succeeding in these four areas (not easy) will drive up attendance and thus create justification for the spend.

Promoting any idea of 'build it and they will come' is essentially not much different than 'we want lots of stuff and want someone else to pay for it'

a3uge



Quote from: VULB#62 on December 16, 2015, 07:19:25 PM
But what are their attendance figures over time?

Much better than Valpo - 7,853 in their peak tournament years, and 6,027 last year. And that's in the relatively poor MAAC. They play off campus, but are raising money for a $15-20 million basketball practice facility on campus. They fit great in the geographical footprint of the A10 and were rumored for inclusion until Davidson joined. Beyond Siena, the College of Charleston and Boston University have all gotten a look at some point. With SLU and Dayton on the brink of leaving to the Big East, it would be insane to target a school as far west as Valpo. If UMass goes to the AAC, I think you'll probably see either Siena, or the league stay put.

a3uge



Quote from: vu84v2 on December 16, 2015, 10:00:45 PM
I read all of this about needing a new or renovated arena. I read about how people want Valpo to spend money to keep Bryce. I read about desires to move to the A-10 or MVC. In all of these discussions, no one talks about attendance at games with quality opponents. Iona had 2700. Belmont had a stated attendance of 3300, but the picture on Valpo's website of a play by David Skara shows a mostly empty upper deck (so I am doubtful if 3300 is real). I am sure that most here are more loyal fans, but the honest truth is that people are not spending their money and time to go to games. Any sane executive decision maker is going to ask why spend a lot of money when there is not sufficient interest.

I honestly do not believe that better PR and marketing will make the difference. I read an academic study recently that looked at a mid-major program and how to increase attendance. The  significant factors that drive attendance are perceived quality of the team and perceived quality of the opponents. You need to solve these issues to get consistent attendance that will, in turn, drive a business plan that supports a major capital spend. Trying to market a game against a non-D1 opponent or a non-respected opponent like IPFW or Chicago State is not going to help.

My recommended plan (in order):
1. Pay Bryce to keep him, but have a strong backup plan (Powell?)
2. Win
3. Win in the tournament and advance - this must be done multiple times.
4. Play anyone anywhere and build an even stronger national reputation.
5. Succeeding in these four areas (not easy) will drive up attendance and thus create justification for the spend.

Promoting any idea of 'build it and they will come' is essentially not much different than 'we want lots of stuff and want someone else to pay for it'

Simple: instead of scheduling Chicago State at home, Valpo should schedule Duke or Kentucky.

ValpoFan

I am not sure why we scheduled Chicago state but I will try to play devil's advocate:
1 - It could possibly be part of a H & H deal and we are getting chicago state next year at home. Obviously Duke or Kentucky will never do that.
2 - We want to play in chicago since we recruit there while Durham, NC and Lexington, KY are not so much.

vu84v2

I think that you are misreading my points. Let me try to restate:

-I always see comments about the need for better PR and marketing for Valparaiso basketball. My point is that marketing games like Chicago State, IPFW or non D1 opponents has little chance of success regardless of how good the marketing people are. This is what the study that I referenced said. Giveaways and promotions do not drive up attendance because 99% of them do not have sufficient value to change the decision making of most people.
-I never meat to imply that Valpo could get Duke or Kentucky to play at Valpo. What I was saying is that Valpo is scheduling good opponents such as Belmont and Iona and not getting attendance results. People can make the claim that Valpo needs better marketing, but the truth is that potential attendees are making the decision that Belmont and Iona are not quality opponents and/or that Valpo is not a high enough quality team to make them go to the games rather than do something else.
-My greatest point is that while some marketing of games against better opponents could be helpful, there needs to be a long term strategy. Gonzaga is the model here and (perhaps) Butler too. Great coaching is the foundation, but in the free market for coaches you always need to have a succession plan. You need to then build a national reputation which is based on wins and playing (and winning) nationally publicized games. Valpo has had some success building a national reputation, but it needs to go much further.

Bottom line: when I see consistent attendance of 5000 for conference and good non-conference games (Iona, Belmont, etc.), then I would endorse renovating the ARC or building a new stadium. And that is how the decision makers should and will view it as well.

a3uge



Quote from: vu84v2 on December 17, 2015, 07:47:52 AM
I think that you are misreading my points. Let me try to restate:

-I always see comments about the need for better PR and marketing for Valparaiso basketball. My point is that marketing games like Chicago State, IPFW or non D1 opponents has little chance of success regardless of how good the marketing people are. This is what the study that I referenced said. Giveaways and promotions do not drive up attendance because 99% of them do not have sufficient value to change the decision making of most people.
-I never meat to imply that Valpo could get Duke or Kentucky to play at Valpo. What I was saying is that Valpo is scheduling good opponents such as Belmont and Iona and not getting attendance results. People can make the claim that Valpo needs better marketing, but the truth is that potential attendees are making the decision that Belmont and Iona are not quality opponents and/or that Valpo is not a high enough quality team to make them go to the games rather than do something else.
-My greatest point is that while some marketing of games against better opponents could be helpful, there needs to be a long term strategy. Gonzaga is the model here and (perhaps) Butler too. Great coaching is the foundation, but in the free market for coaches you always need to have a succession plan. You need to then build a national reputation which is based on wins and playing (and winning) nationally publicized games. Valpo has had some success building a national reputation, but it needs to go much further.

Bottom line: when I see consistent attendance of 5000 for conference and good non-conference games (Iona, Belmont, etc.), then I would endorse renovating the ARC or building a new stadium. And that is how the decision makers should and will view it as well.

My comment was a bit over the top, but I get your point. For starters, winning is indeed the best way to increase attendance. If Valpo went to the Sweet 16, you'd see attendance over 4500 the next year for every game.

As for scheduling better opponents: it's pretty much impossible for a mid major like to schedule decent home games. Home games are expensive and top power conference teams already only play 1-3 OOC road games a year. Most of these road games are against other top power conference teams because it helps their RPI and SOS. Top mid majors also have a hard enough time scheduling lower mid majors because obviously we don't pay as well as a team like Kentucky.

Considering scheduling is so difficult, it would be more advantageous to be in a conference where ranked opponents can appear on the schedule every year - for free! And I think you could get that with the MVC, but it's not possible to join the MVC at this point, partly because our facilities are below par. And if Valpo got serious about practice facilities, I think we'd get more 2-3 star recruits walking in through door. They do a great job of developing players and finding gems (Peters and Broekhoff both weren't even ranked on ESPN's recruiting database), but it doesn't seem as sustainable, especially if Bryce ever leaves.

vu72

Quote from: a3uge on December 17, 2015, 01:03:24 PM


Quote from: vu84v2 on December 17, 2015, 07:47:52 AM
I think that you are misreading my points. Let me try to restate:

-I always see comments about the need for better PR and marketing for Valparaiso basketball. My point is that marketing games like Chicago State, IPFW or non D1 opponents has little chance of success regardless of how good the marketing people are. This is what the study that I referenced said. Giveaways and promotions do not drive up attendance because 99% of them do not have sufficient value to change the decision making of most people.
-I never meat to imply that Valpo could get Duke or Kentucky to play at Valpo. What I was saying is that Valpo is scheduling good opponents such as Belmont and Iona and not getting attendance results. People can make the claim that Valpo needs better marketing, but the truth is that potential attendees are making the decision that Belmont and Iona are not quality opponents and/or that Valpo is not a high enough quality team to make them go to the games rather than do something else.
-My greatest point is that while some marketing of games against better opponents could be helpful, there needs to be a long term strategy. Gonzaga is the model here and (perhaps) Butler too. Great coaching is the foundation, but in the free market for coaches you always need to have a succession plan. You need to then build a national reputation which is based on wins and playing (and winning) nationally publicized games. Valpo has had some success building a national reputation, but it needs to go much further.

Bottom line: when I see consistent attendance of 5000 for conference and good non-conference games (Iona, Belmont, etc.), then I would endorse renovating the ARC or building a new stadium. And that is how the decision makers should and will view it as well.

My comment was a bit over the top, but I get your point. For starters, winning is indeed the best way to increase attendance. If Valpo went to the Sweet 16, you'd see attendance over 4500 the next year for every game.

As for scheduling better opponents: it's pretty much impossible for a mid major like to schedule decent home games. Home games are expensive and top power conference teams already only play 1-3 OOC road games a year. Most of these road games are against other top power conference teams because it helps their RPI and SOS. Top mid majors also have a hard enough time scheduling lower mid majors because obviously we don't pay as well as a team like Kentucky.

Considering scheduling is so difficult, it would be more advantageous to be in a conference where ranked opponents can appear on the schedule every year - for free! And I think you could get that with the MVC, but it's not possible to join the MVC at this point, partly because our facilities are below par. And if Valpo got serious about practice facilities, I think we'd get more 2-3 star recruits walking in through door. They do a great job of developing players and finding gems (Peters and Broekhoff both weren't even ranked on ESPN's recruiting database), but it doesn't seem as sustainable, especially if Bryce ever leaves.

Ryan certainly while Tevonn and possibly Max are other examples of finding unranked gems.  Alec may not have been ranked by ESPN but everybody knew about him.  He had something like 20 offers including many from major conferences.
Season Results: CBI/CIT: 2008, 2011, 2014  NIT: 2003,2012, 2016(Championship Game) 2017   NCAA: 1962,1966,1967,1969,1973,1996,1997,1998 (Sweet Sixteen),1999, 2000, 2002, 2004, 2013 and 2015

agibson

Quote from: vu72 on December 17, 2015, 01:17:58 PMAlec may not have been ranked by ESPN but everybody knew about him.  He had something like 20 offers including many from major conferences.

Lots of offers for sure.  Were there a bunch of high majors?

Here's one list
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/player-Alec-Peters-142859

Butler, St. Louis, Utah, Rice?

vu72

Quote from: agibson on December 17, 2015, 05:04:36 PM
Quote from: vu72 on December 17, 2015, 01:17:58 PMAlec may not have been ranked by ESPN but everybody knew about him.  He had something like 20 offers including many from major conferences.

Lots of offers for sure.  Were there a bunch of high majors?

Here's one list
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/player-Alec-Peters-142859

Butler, St. Louis, Utah, Rice?

Add Boston College, Tennessee, Illinois State and others.
Season Results: CBI/CIT: 2008, 2011, 2014  NIT: 2003,2012, 2016(Championship Game) 2017   NCAA: 1962,1966,1967,1969,1973,1996,1997,1998 (Sweet Sixteen),1999, 2000, 2002, 2004, 2013 and 2015

covufan

Quote from: vu72 on December 17, 2015, 05:15:58 PM
Quote from: agibson on December 17, 2015, 05:04:36 PM
Quote from: vu72 on December 17, 2015, 01:17:58 PMAlec may not have been ranked by ESPN but everybody knew about him.  He had something like 20 offers including many from major conferences.

Lots of offers for sure.  Were there a bunch of high majors?

Here's one list
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/player-Alec-Peters-142859

Butler, St. Louis, Utah, Rice?

Add Boston College, Tennessee, Illinois State and others.

An impressive list!  Hopefully, we'll get another like him this year!