No better way to start the conference season than to beat Oakland at the O'rena. Go Crusaders!
Quote from: bbtds on December 30, 2014, 09:49:41 PM
Other than a home game against an inebriated UIC, No better way to start the conference season than to beat Oakland at the O'rena. Go Crusaders!
fixed it for you
Quote from: bbtds on December 30, 2014, 09:49:41 PM
No better way to start the conference season than to beat Oakland at the O'rena. Go Crusaders!
I don't know, three years ago we knocked off Butler (the preseason favorite) in Hinkle to start league play. That was pretty sweet. But I guess we'll just have to settle for Bader-less Coach Kampe and Co.
I'm a little skeptical yet on this one. We never seem to play well against Oakland. On the other hand, if we come out guns ablazin like yesterday, it could get ugly. In a good way.
Petros sucks.
Valpo 71
Oakland 64
Just a quick reminder that this game is on ESPN 3.
http://www.horizonleague.org/schedule.html (http://www.horizonleague.org/schedule.html)
http://espn.go.com/watchespn/index#type/upcoming/sport/basketball/startDate/20150102/ (http://espn.go.com/watchespn/index#type/upcoming/sport/basketball/startDate/20150102/)
WHAT IS WITH THE DEMISE OF THE HL NETWORK?
WAS CONVENIENCE TOO MUCH TO ASK OF oh right $.
Valpo by 14, 82-68.
I like the ESPN3 deal. More fun watching on the big screen then on this iPad screen.
DirecTV just struck a deal with ESPN3, so that's good news.
A couple predictions:
Valpo 71
Oakland 55
16 point lead by halftime which holds. This team is special, and that will become evident on Friday with the start of the Conference season, if it hasn't already become obvious!
I'm not expecting much of a challenge from the conference. I've followed RealTime RPI for years, and normally their prediction system is nearly spot on for predicting the HL conference outcome. They've got Valpo at 15-1 with a loss by 3 at GB.
If we can win our next 2, we will be 15-2 (12-2 official), and either in the top 25 or right on the verge.
Fun season so far!
Quote from: WiscoCrusader on December 31, 2014, 10:27:10 AM16 point lead by halftime which holds.
Reminds me...one of the things I was most proud of about Monday night is that we had a 24-pt lead at halftime. And we won the 2nd half comfortably too, rather than give them even that.
In fact it was almost about to be the score of last year (81-49) before a late miss on our part and the late three on theirs made it 79-52.
To me, that's the sign of a good team playing well, that there is no "off the accelerator" moment we've been accustomed to in seasons past, where the opposition makes a threatening run after we've had a 20-something point lead.
Alec Peters is gonna score 37 points in this game as we blow away Oakland. Petros will be no match for Vashil and Felder will have fits with KC, thus there offense will be decimated and they don't play defense so I think we win by 25.
Us - 85
Them - 60
Guys, I hate to break it to you but this isn't going to be an easy game. I've said that before, but this time it's legitimately going to be a tough game. We have never gone to Oakland and won "easily" even when we had a tournament team.
In our last 10 games against Oakland we are 4-6 and 2 of those wins were on the road. One game was decided by double digits, January 2, 2006, a 31 point win at home for us (it should be noted we lost the rematch later that season at the O'rena 95-89). The average margin for the rest of the 9 games is 4 points. In 2012-13, our best year in recent history, we lost at the O'Rena to a team that finished 10-6 in a very bad Summit League and later went on to lost to YSU (7-9 in conference play that season) in the first round of the CIT.
I wouldn't be shocked if we lose this game, but I think we come out with a single digit victory and later in the season we say "How did we only win by 5 points". I say 79-77 Valpo.
| Year | Day | Location | Result | Valpo | Oakland | Pt Dif |
| 2014 | Sun, Feb 9 | Home | W | 63 | 60 | 3 |
| 2014 | Sat, Jan 4 | Away | L | 70 | 75 | 5 |
| 2013 | Mon, Dec 17 | Away | L | 68 | 70 | 2 |
| 2012 | Sat, Dec 17 | Home | L | 80 | 82 | 2 |
| 2011 | Tue, Dec 21 | Away | W | 103 | 102 | 1 |
| 2007 | Thu, Jan 11 | Home | L | 76 | 81 | 5 |
| 2007 | Sat, Feb 10 | Away | L | 61 | 64 | 3 |
| 2006 | Mon, Jan 2 | Home | W | 95 | 64 | 31 |
| 2006 | Thu, Jan 26 | Away | L | 89 | 95 | 6 |
| 2005 | Mon, Jan 10 | Away | W | 87 | 78 | 9 |
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on December 31, 2014, 10:49:12 AM
Quote from: WiscoCrusader on December 31, 2014, 10:27:10 AM16 point lead by halftime which holds.
Reminds me...one of the things I was most proud of about Monday night is that we had a 24-pt lead at halftime. And we won the 2nd half comfortably too, rather than give them even that.
In fact it was almost about to be the score of last year (81-49) before a late miss on our part and the late three on theirs made it 79-52.
To me, that's the sign of a good team playing well, that there is no "off the accelerator" moment we've been accustomed to in seasons past, where the opposition makes a threatening run after we've had a 20-something point lead.
What's even more impressive is that we built the lead in the 2nd half with 6 non-starters playing nearly half the minutes (45 of 100).
Petros looked pretty solid against Pittsburgh and Kampe seems to have our number. I'll give the edge to Oakland unless we shoot lights out.
Quote from: valpotx on December 31, 2014, 12:36:38 AM
Petros sucks.
Valpo 71
Oakland 64
Petros struggles against tall, long athletic guys who play above the rim. Last year in both games, he consistently was getting his shot thrown back into his face or into the stands.
Perhaps this is a game that Vashil can brake his own block record?
Quote from: oklahomamick on December 31, 2014, 12:06:12 PMPetros struggles against tall, long athletic guys who play above the rim.
If Vashil can battle Petros to a draw or better then we win. So I am hoping for the refs to let 2 of the best centers in the league settle it on the court. If Vashil gets into early foul trouble then getting a win will be much more difficult but still possible. VU by 1.
Quote from: oklahomamick on December 31, 2014, 12:06:12 PMLast year in both games, he consistently was getting his shot thrown back into his face or into the stands.
That was moussa's 7 block game last year. thanks for the memories! :)
We lose by 9.
Oakland has played a tough schedule and has gone night after night against top teams. Some of them they played really well against. Plus they are at home.
We have 13 wins but the quality of the teams we have played is laughable. I think everyone is looking past the quality we have played against and just focused on the 13 W's.
I still "see" the team as the ones that lost to New Mexico at home. That was our last quality opponent and a true measure of where we stand against good teams.
Also, this team cannot function at all without Alec out there.
Quote from: Chairback on December 31, 2014, 05:00:27 PMWe have 13 wins but the quality of the teams we have played is laughable.
the caliber of teams we have played is pretty similar to oakland. the teams they have played aren't similar to us. who is better suited?
Quote from: Chairback on December 31, 2014, 05:00:27 PMAlso, this team cannot function at all without Alec out there.
how many teams can without their star? ask tom thibodeaux whether that makes a difference.
but besides, it's not as if we've done poorly without him either. that's how come he's played far fewer minutes this year than last.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on December 31, 2014, 05:38:23 PMthe caliber of teams we have played is pretty similar to oakland. the teams they have played aren't similar to us. who is better suited?
I would say Oakland would have 11 wins with our schedule. Our SOS is 239 and close to being dead last in the Horizon.
We win by 8. No doubt we will win.
Quote from: Chairback on December 31, 2014, 05:00:27 PMWe lose by 9.
Also, this team cannot function at all without Alec out there.
Debby Downer. What makes you think that Alec wouldn't play enough minutes to beat Oakland? We played a poor game last year and still were close through out most of the game and Oakland played a tough schedule last year.
It may stay even for a good portion of the game but I think it will be Valpo that pulls away at the end. The Crusaders are much better than last year.
Quote from: historyman on December 31, 2014, 06:49:37 PMDebby Downer
I know...I know...
I think their game plan will be to limit Alex only to shots down low and get Vashil in very early foul trouble. 2 fouls in the first 4-5 mins. I think they will feed Petros constantly over and over early on.
This game will be the best barometer of how we will do in the conference. After this game the next 3 are at home and will be W's. After the road trip the week of 1/17 thur 1/23 we will know if we are going to win the conference or not.
Quote from: Chairback on December 31, 2014, 06:20:15 PM
I would say Oakland would have 11 wins with our schedule. Our SOS is 239 and close to being dead last in the Horizon.
That's a ludicrous supposition, Chairback. Playing power-conference foes somewhat close does not translate into wins against supposed lesser opponents; it just doesn't. Valpo has won most of the games it's scheduled and Oakland has not, which tells us, simply, that Valpo's knows how to win and Oakland doesn't. Once again, because of Kampe's get-paid scheduling, we know little about Oakland's ability to win and, as LaPorteAvenueApostle alluded, the debate over whether this prepares them for conference play rages on.
You're correct that this game will be a barometer of preparedness, though.
Bottom line:
Chairback for some inexplicable reason is trying to do rpi in his head instead of just using one of the many excellent rpi resources available on the public internet.
Rpi uses math where Chair is using what seems to be intuition, and frankly I'll take math nearly every time.
Realtimerpi has Valpo at 50 rpi. Oakland, with its 200 plus Rpi, already lost at home to 284 rpi western Carolina. This really isn't even up for debate. Valpo wins by 25 or by 5, but we certainly don't lose by 8.
Quote from: Chairback on December 31, 2014, 07:49:28 PM
Quote from: historyman on December 31, 2014, 06:49:37 PMDebby Downer
I know...I know...
I think their game plan will be to limit Alex only to shots down low and get Vashil in very early foul trouble. 2 fouls in the first 4-5 mins. I think they will feed Petros constantly over and over early on.
This game will be the best barometer of how we will do in the conference. After this game the next 3 are at home and will be W's. After the road trip the week of 1/17 thur 1/23 we will know if we are going to win the conference or not.
Dude, you obviously haven't watched Petros play against Valpo in his career. The guy is absolutely terrible against our bigs. I don't care how he plays against the rest of the league, he hasn't done JACK SH!+ against Valpo, and won't do anything against us this year either. I have said it many times, but I beg for him to shoot against us, as he looks like an extremely unathletic turd against us. Yes, there are athletic turds out there, just ask Ray Jr. :)
Quote from: historyman on December 31, 2014, 06:49:37 PM
Quote from: Chairback on December 31, 2014, 05:00:27 PMWe lose by 9.
Also, this team cannot function at all without Alec out there.
Debby Downer. What makes you think that Alec wouldn't play enough minutes to beat Oakland? We played a poor game last year and still were close through out most of the game and Oakland played a tough schedule last year.
It may stay even for a good portion of the game but I think it will be Valpo that pulls away at the end. The Crusaders are much better than last year.
His Paternal Grandfather passed away and visitation is tomorrow with services Saturday
Quote from: PantherFan on January 01, 2015, 06:32:58 AMHis Paternal Grandfather passed away and visitation is tomorrow with services Saturday
I have no idea exactly what Alec will do. I do know that he will be doing it in honor of his grandfather on Friday and Saturday. I also heard he was in Valpo for the women's game on Tuesday.
http://www.courierpapers.com/obituaries/article_b91a6b64-9036-11e4-ab01-af309b824ed1.html (http://www.courierpapers.com/obituaries/article_b91a6b64-9036-11e4-ab01-af309b824ed1.html)
(http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/courierpapers.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/e/6d/e6d7caf6-9036-11e4-906f-fb8bd7cc2ab7/54a2c40d4794c.image.jpg?resize=300%2C312)
John A. Peters, 68, passed away at 1:10 a.m., Monday, December 29, 2014 at Proctor Hospital in Peoria.
John was born on February 8, 1946 in Peoria to Glenwood and Matilda (Flohr) Peters. He married his Pleasant View Grade School classmate, Kathleen Lay, on March 16, 1968 in Minier. Kathleen survives.
Also surviving are their four beautiful children, Jonathan (Elke) Peters and their children, Liesl and Grant, Jeffrey (Carrie) Peters and their children, Austin, Alec, Ashlyn and Anne, Janeen (Jason) Chave and their children, Dolleena, Brayden, Taryn and Kyler, and Kevin (Anna) Peters and their children, Lydia and Kaylee and one brother, Steven (Jean) Peters, Sr., all of Washington.
John was a lifelong farmer in Tazewell County. In 1964 he was awarded the Illinois State Star Farmer Award by the FFA.
He was a 1964 graduate of Washington Community High School and after high school, entered the Army Reserves where he attained the rank of Sergeant.
Besides farming, John was also very active in St. Mark's Lutheran Church in Washington where he served as an usher for more than 50 years and as head usher for the past 30. John also had served on the church council, the worship and music committee and had been property chairman for the church.
John enjoyed snowmobiling in Wisconsin.
Funeral services for John will be held at 11 a.m., Saturday, January 3, 2015 at St. Mark's Lutheran Church with Pastors John Bates, Dick Hanson and Youngshim Mason officiating. Visitation will be from 5 to 7 Friday at Mason-White Funeral Home and one hour prior to services at the church on Saturday. Burial will follow in St. Peters Lutheran Cemetery in Benson.
Memorials for John may be directed to either St. Mark's Lutheran Church or the Wounded Warrior Project.
Online condolences may be made to the family at masonfuneralhomes.comI think the Valpo community should find a way to honor Mr. Peters, one of God's faithful servants.
http://www.masonfuneralhomes.com/memsol.cgi?user_id=1488616 (http://www.masonfuneralhomes.com/memsol.cgi?user_id=1488616)
Quote from: bbtds on January 01, 2015, 07:10:55 AM
I have no idea exactly what Alec will do.
I haven't spoken to any of the family yet so neither do I. Just answering the question on why he may not get minutes.
I saw Alec at the women's game on Tuesday. He was very subdued and everyone was offering condolences. As Alec said in response, his grandfather "is in a better place." I understand Alec will attend the funeral Saturday, but he will play in the Friday and Sunday games. The weekend surely will be difficult and tiring for him; but as we have seen in the past, Alec is a mature young man who handles challenges well, and apparently he is dedicating his play to his grandfather.
Quote from: valpopal on January 01, 2015, 09:56:35 AMI saw Alec at the women's game on Tuesday. He was very subdued and everyone was offering condolences. As Alec said, his grandfather "is in a better place." I understand Alec will attend the funeral Saturday, but he will play in the Friday and Sunday games. The weekend surely will be difficult and tiring for him, but he is dedicating his play to his grandfather.
The Team bus will probably get back to Valpo about 1:00 or 2:00 am on early Saturday morning and Alec will have to hop in a car (hopefully he has somebody else to drive) and get to Washington about 5:00 a.m. The Funeral is at 11:00 a.m. My guess is Alec will be there most of the day and then drive the 3 hours back to Valpo that evening. Then he will play another game (YSU) at 1:35 p.m.on Sunday. No matter what that would be an extremely emotional and exhausting few days for anyone not including playing 2 games in 3 days.
Thank you and blessings, Alec, for your dedication to Valpo during this trying time. Our condolences.
I scraped this from the VU Pre-game release:
"Sophomore guard Kahlil Felder - last year's HL Freshman of the Year - paces OU with 16.4 points and 7.1 assists per game."
I know Alec is dealing with a lot right now, but I'm thinking that this little nugget may be a driver for him tomorrow despite this not being a 1-on-1 situation. I'm thinking KC and Alec combine to create a large statistical delta between Alec and Felder in this game -- like maybe Felder 10 pts, 4 assists; Peters 24 pts and 9 RBs.
The team is going to rally around Alec, feed him, and do whatever it takes to help him honor his granddad with a tremendous effort. To quote the movie Ice Age: " It's whatcha do in a herd."
EDIT: There, I fixed it.
Alec.....it's Alec! C'mon man!
Quote from: VULB#62 on January 01, 2015, 04:04:32 PM
I scraped this from the VU Pre-game release:
"Sophomore guard Kahlil Felder - last year's HL Freshman of the Year - paces OU with 16.4 points and 7.1 assists per game."
I know Alex is dealing with a lot right now, but I'm thinking that this little nugget may be a driver for him tomorrow despite this not being a 1-on-1 situation. I'm thinking KC and Alex combine to create a large statistical delta between Alex and Felder in this game -- like maybe Felder 10 pts, 4 assists; Peters 24 pts and 9 RBs.
The team is going to rally around Alex, feed him, and do whatever it takes to help him honor his granddad with a tremendous effort. To quote the movie Ice Age: " It's whatcha do in a herd."
Oakland is always going to have guys with inflated numbers because of Kampe's "play till you drop" philosophy. Felder is number one in all of D-1 basketball in playing time with a ridiculous 39 MPG average. He is 6th in the HL in PPG but only 15th in PP40. In contrast, Alec is 2nd in PPG (19) and 1st in PP40 (28) because he does his damage in only 26 MPG. By the way, Petros and Williams are ranked 2nd and 10th respectively in the HL in MPG. I heard that Kampe's pre-game instructions to his bench players is always the same - "Have a seat and make yourself comfortable." ;)
Quote from: wh on January 01, 2015, 05:13:03 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on January 01, 2015, 04:04:32 PM
I scraped this from the VU Pre-game release:
"Sophomore guard Kahlil Felder - last year's HL Freshman of the Year - paces OU with 16.4 points and 7.1 assists per game."
I know Alex is dealing with a lot right now, but I'm thinking that this little nugget may be a driver for him tomorrow despite this not being a 1-on-1 situation. I'm thinking KC and Alex combine to create a large statistical delta between Alex and Felder in this game -- like maybe Felder 10 pts, 4 assists; Peters 24 pts and 9 RBs.
The team is going to rally around Alex, feed him, and do whatever it takes to help him honor his granddad with a tremendous effort. To quote the movie Ice Age: " It's whatcha do in a herd."
Oakland is always going to have guys with inflated numbers because of Kampe's "play till you drop" philosophy. Felder is number one in all of D-1 basketball in playing time with a ridiculous 39 MPG average. He is 6th in the HL in PPG but only 15th in PP40. In contrast, Alec is 2nd in PPG (19) and 1st in PP40 (28) because he does his damage in only 26 MPG. By the way, Petros and Williams are ranked 2nd and 10th respectively in the HL in MPG. I heard that Kampe's pre-game instructions to his bench players is always the same - "Have a seat and make yourself comfortable." ;)
Slocum has been known to do this at YSU as well. They've had a few years where not a single non-starter averaged more than 10 mpg. Hopefully it comes back to bite them in physical, late game situations under tired legs. Also, teams like this dont tend to play defense well. Or, if we aren't afraid of Petros, we can try driving the basket and getting their top players in foul trouble, knowing their bench is likely soft and inexperienced
Quote from: wh on January 01, 2015, 05:13:03 PMOakland is always going to have guys with inflated numbers because of Kampe's "play till you drop" philosophy. Felder is number one in all of D-1 basketball in playing time with a ridiculous 39 MPG average. He is 6th in the HL in PPG but only 15th in PP40. In contrast, Alec is 2nd in PPG (19) and 1st in PP40 (28) because he does his damage in only 26 MPG. By the way, Petros and Williams are ranked 2nd and 10th respectively in the HL in MPG. I heard that Kampe's pre-game instructions to his bench players is always the same - "Have a seat and make yourself comfortable."
I remember Kampe saying that he learned that having a strong bench was important in the HL and Greg was going to recruit with that in mind. Now it seems that extensive playing time for the Golden Grizzlies' starters is more important.
I guess scheduling winnable non-conference games is not the only thing Kampe decided against for this season.
Quote from: Chairback on December 31, 2014, 05:00:27 PM
We lose by 9.
Oakland has played a tough schedule and has gone night after night against top teams. Some of them they played really well against. Plus they are at home.
We have 13 wins but the quality of the teams we have played is laughable. I think everyone is looking past the quality we have played against and just focused on the 13 W's.
I still "see" the team as the ones that lost to New Mexico at home. That was our last quality opponent and a true measure of where we stand against good teams.
Also, this team cannot function at all without Alec out there.
I don't even know where to start...
The spread: opened Valpo -2 1/2; current Valpo -3 1/2
http://www.valpofanzone.com/2015/01/02/horizon-league-the-non-con-2014/ (http://www.valpofanzone.com/2015/01/02/horizon-league-the-non-con-2014/)
Yep, time for the old non-con blog post of 2014. now i can go back to whatever it is I do.
Hope you enjoy it!
Well done, Apostle! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Quote from: valpopal on January 02, 2015, 01:49:28 AM
Well done, Apostle! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Guess who "liked" this post?
(http://sleeperlist.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/adore-me.png)
what? it's a thank you for a thank you. happens a lot this time of year.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on January 02, 2015, 08:21:02 AM
what? it's a thank you for a thank you. happens a lot this time of year.
Yep, a common and polite practice in social media. Maybe next suggestion will be the need for a "Thank You" button. ;)
nice job Thanks
To: bbtds Loved your posted picture/cartoon... that was King Kampe", wasn't it?
So we know who Oakland's main guys are right? Well let's take a look at what KenPom says.
Ranked: 199/351
What they do well: Offensive Effenciency: 106.1 (51st)
They don't really turn the ball over, they shoot a solid percentage, they got a lot of assists per field goal, and they make threes. That leads to an efficient offense, the best in the league.
What they don't do well: Prevent teams from _____
Seriously fill in the blank and teams do it well against them. Their effective FG% is ranked 332nd, turnovers is ranked 340th, blocked shot % is 340th, 3P% is 321st, 2P% is 321st, steal % is 281st. Hell teams shoot better from the FT line against them. Needless to say, their strength of schedule is 13th hardest in the country so some of these number might be skewed by the quality of opponent.
Who they have:
Kahlil Felder is their go-to-guy this season and if that shocks you then let me tell you bet you who Valpo's is. Felder plays 95.4% of the minutes available to him which is good for 4th highest in the country. When he's on the court (when isn't he?) he takes 25.5% of the teams shots. He's going to take 8 shots, 4 of them will be threes and he'll hit a Jordan Aaron-esque percentage. He's not the dead-eye that Bader was, but we still need to get a hand in his face. He also gets to the line, and he drains them when he gets them. Vashil be aware, he will try to draw you in, he will float it over your outstretched arms and you will foul him. Don't do this, stand there and take the charge.
Petros is their #2 guy obviously. He plays slightly less Felder (90.4%, 30th in the nation, 2nd in conference) and like him or not he's efficient. He has an offensive rating of 108.5. He shoots 59.2% from the field and he gobbles up 10% of the potential ORebounds that are available. His effective FG% is the same as his FG% which means he doesn't shoot 3s. Do not defend him if he's behind the arc. I repeat Vashil, do not go out and chase him, he is of no threat to you there.
So who replaced Bader?
The simple answer is to look at Felder, but it's not him. It's actually two guys. Dante Williams is outstanding inside the arc (55.3% from 2) and simply average from beyond the arc (35.5%) but that gives him an eFG% of 53.9 which is solid. He doesn't get rebounds or assists and has a lower TORate. Sounds like Bader huh? Well wait til you see Max Hooper's line. The kid who sounds like he belongs in Hoosiers has shot 2/4 from 2 point field goals this year, yet averages 6 PPG. How? Because he's taken 72 threes. I really wish KenPom broke it down to see how has the highest percentage of field goals from 3, but Max has to be the top person in the nation. I see these guys being guarded by Walkers and Skara all night, so hopefully they are ready to hound them at the 3 point line.
Do they have an X Factor?
Tommy McCrune is the third best player and the guy Alec will be guarding. He has more an inside game and he's an athletic tweener. He shoots a good percentage (54.5 eFG) and gets to the line (just over 5 FT/G) but he doesn't hit them too well (67.2%). His FT% seems like an aberration as he hit 82.4% last year He had a big game against W. Michigan earlier this season and against us last year he had a solid 15 minutes of play with 8 points. I'd look for Kampe to use him to try to tire Alec out on the defensive end so that he's less effective when VU has the ball.
Bench? Sit on it.
Jalen Hayes and Femi Olujobi take their minutes when McCrune and Hooper sit. Hayes will take 2-3 shots while Olujobi eats minutes and turns the ball over (his TORate is about the same as Moussa's last season). These guys will get about 10-15 MPG. Ralph Hill has also seen action in every game and only gotten ~10 MPG. They seem to use a 7 man rotation occasionally sprinkling Hill in similarly to Max Joseph for us.
Key Match Ups
This is a battle of the Horizon League's best offense vs. the 2nd best defense. Unfortunately for them we also get to play offense and while the 3rd best offense is on the court, the league's worst defense is out there. Does this mean high scoring? Hah, nope because while they have the 2nd fastest tempo in the league it still means there will be around 65-66 possessions and neither team is going to be running up and down the court. This won't be the slog that our game vs. Cleveland State looks to be (good god they are a slow paced team) but I see the score staying in the 70s.
Prediction: I said 79-77 earlier and I think I'll stick to that. Valpo squeaks one out as we have a 5 point lead with a minute to go and we hit FTs to keep it a 2 point lead with their barrage (and occasional makes) of 3s.
What's that say about the HL when the second fastest-paced team still averages only ~66 possessions per game.
I think it comes down to Oakland's 3 pt shooting. Valpo will score points, and if Vashil plays smart, Petros will have his hands full. If Oakland hits from outside, it'll be an 80-77 shootout. If they don't, Valpo by 15.
Quote from: hailcrusaders on January 02, 2015, 03:00:42 PM
What's that say about the HL when the second fastest-paced team still averages only ~66 possessions per game.
I think it comes down to Oakland's 3 pt shooting. Valpo will score points, and if Vashil plays smart, Petros will have his hands full. If Oakland hits from outside, it'll be an 80-77 shootout. If they don't, Valpo by 15.
They are actually 3rd behind Detroit (48th in the country) and YSU (97th). They are ranked 147th and we are 256th (2nd slowest in conference).
I hope we get out on their shooters. We are ranked 236th in the country in 3P FG% allowed.
70-75
68-70
80-82
103-102
61-64
Our last five games at Oakland are listed above. We are 1-4 as you can see.
I don't care what the "spread" is or what KenPom says (whatever that is). All I know is that Oakland has had our number up there, and Oakland always seems to circle this game on their calendar. I hope we win but I think the odds are against it.
Paul
This will be a close game. Kampe will work the refs all night with the focus of getting as many fouls called on Carter as possible. He knows we lack depth at the point position. Carter will need to play 34 minutes of this game if we want to win (3 minute break per half).
Chadwick is not dressed for the game.
line has moved to -5 Valpo.
Throwing up 3's and missing like its our job. Sometimes without making 3 passes.
What was the bench warming Bryce received?
Wow oakland is hot and we are starting off slow not looking good.
4-17, ouch.
They are making shots they never dreamed of...don't know if their eyes are even open. Especially the guard Nick Daniels
Down by 16.....
They can't keep shooting like this. Neither can we. Still a lot of game left to play!!
That could not have been our game plan to start the game with the 2 Walkers and Carter throwing up 3's at will early in the shot clock and Peters never getting a touch. Now Oakland is playing completely loose and hitting everything they throw up. Totally self-inflicted misery on our part.
espn 3 video feed sucks tonight. anyone else with difficulties?
Good lord that first 10 minutes was like watching 4 Marshall Hendersons.
Quote from: oklahomamick on January 02, 2015, 06:42:08 PM
espn 3 video feed sucks tonight. anyone else with difficulties?
Yes very it is horrible.
I hate computer TV...
This steam is unacceptable. ESPN needs to fix their sh**
I have more difficulties with espn 3 than I ever did with the HL network.
video sucks... I thought it was my Internet but all the other games on espn3 play fine. ...
yeah it's like claymation with the stop-action. stupid feed. never a problem on the hln.
i'll take being down 5 as poorly as we played at times early.
winning on the road ain't ever easy, even when we think it will be. but I'm still thinking we've got a much better half in store.
Same here - the feed was choppy for 10 minutes, now it can't even connect.
I really like Felder's game. Guys like him and Alec are great additions to the league.
Does anyone even watch to see if it is working? It is like a chef not tasting the food. (The Mazda commercial is working perfectly.... Now even the underwear commercial is working ....)
Time for Valpo to own the second half, and win by 6-7 :). Btw, have I ever said that Petros sucks? He is constantly proving me correct ;).
Quote from: oklahomamick on January 02, 2015, 06:42:08 PM
espn 3 video feed sucks tonight. anyone else with difficulties?
Feed is horrible and it is most definately on their end. I connect hard wired to a gigabit switch and a 50mbps internet connection and just speed checked my end and everything is ok here. Started out kind of ok and went downhill as the half went on. Hope the second half is better. Great to be only down 5 after the horrible start.
ESPN commercials and studio stuff is good, stuff coming from Oakland feed appears to be the problem.
Does the league pay ESPN for this feed? If so they should demand a refund! Just plane painfull to watch.
everyone ... screen is now saying technical difficulties. ....
Video feed is terrible here too - was good for the first 10 minutes of the half...then awful
I do not understand why Valpo just kept jacking up the threes early in the possessions at the beginning of the half. Seems like they may have gotten it together and worked the ball more.
the feed came back. It seems to be playing smoothly again.
Awful feed jumps around I think I might have a seizure
momentum. ... valpo
BTW, I have used tune-in radio to listen to Todd. It allows me to pause the radio, so I can sync it with the video feed.
glad to see we learned at halftime...oh no wait, a guy whose shot is clearly off tonight still jacking 3s early in the shot clock.
and a foul on peters. just great.
...is it just me, or is Darien Walker KILLING us tonight? geddimouttathere!
...One thing we are doing well tonight is moving the ball, though. 11 assists on 15 FG? that's darn good.
now, about those TURNOVAS...
You all know I do not complain about refs - but these refs suck
You'd think after closing the gap to 5 they'd come out of the half strong.
If we don't get Alec involved offensively, we're dead.
Stashing Peters in the post on offense seems like a terrible strategy. Also, I don't miss horizon league refs at all.
we are shooting 40% from the free throw line......
Darien Walker is one streaky shooter. Unfortunately tonight he is really off.
perfect....alec misses a bunny and then picks up a foul.
I hope one day we move to the MVC simply so we don't have to put up with the garbage like that foul called on peters grabbing the rebound.
Felder has an ability to drive the lane....
Carter coming up big time! But you have to like how Adekoya has stepped up. Big rebounds and strong inside play.
Anyone see Carter mouthing Felder during the time out after he hit his 3???
Is this the Keith Carter we've all been waiting on?
Biggest reason Jubril doubters need to quiet themselves, is because of games like today. He doesn't do much on offense, but he doesn't stop playing regardless of being on offense or defense.
We're trying our hardest to throw this game away.
last three possessions are turnovers....
Keith Carter!!!!!
Now Alec will step up in ot.
Bryce had some terrible play calls over those last 3 possessions. Luckily, Keith bailed us out. We need Alec to go off in OT, and not foul out.
wow. keith carter. thank the good LORD.
(OREN with the timely PROFILE!)
i'm so glad because i was ready to firebomb the Darien Walker brick. How is he any better than the fourth option on a team with Peters, Carter, and T. Walker?
The whole double the big guy down low strategy needs to end immediately.
Why the heck are we still double-teaming Petros???
STOP THAT DOUBLE TEAMING THEM DOWN LOW
I was under no impressions that we would get ANY benefit from the refs here.
I didn't think it would be so one-sided, though.
Bail out call, that was a crap call
we need some bigs...
That foul on Vashil was a classic horizon league call. Uh he miss! Must be a foul!
If we pull out of this place with a win, I'll be surprised. Playing horrible!!!
we're actually playing not that bad for our first conference road game. but the refs are really making it hard.
i'm not one to blow that horn unnecessarily, but this is ridiculous.
So we spend all night trying to find Peters down low in the post and the first time we find him, his shot gets blocked. Bryce's coaching is suspect this game.
24-12 in fouls...
Man, Peters was crap in this game. Bryce's last minute play calling was suspect as well. This is a team we should have beaten by 8-10...
That's probably it. Remember we started conference 0-1 and ended up winning the whole league hosting the HL tournament.
I wish HL refs called shoves on rebounds. How was that not a foul on Walker's putback
yeah. it's really bad that the last 9 minutes of this game (counting OT) are ending on a 23-8 run.
And I don't think it was the case of "spent so much energy just getting back in it".
We're the better team, but we didn't play like it. If it were at home, I'd be apoplectic, but we're not going to win on the road that often. Half the time would be excellent.
Quote from: wh on January 02, 2015, 07:16:15 PM
If we don't get Alec involved offensively, we're dead.
And I repeat...
BRYCE BRINGING THE FIRE!
i like it. but too little too late.
...we gonna have to dress chadwick to finish the game with 5 players?
I know some of it was fouling in last minutes, but 41 FTs to 12 for Valpo.
Also, Petros still sucks. He was 3/11 with 8 pts and 12 rbs. He can get himself into position for rebounds, I will give him that, but I beg for him to shoot whenever he touches the ball.
This is our worst loss in a long, long time over a team that won't finish in the top half of the HL. But give Oakland credit. This is the best game they've played all year. We were totally out coached and out played.
:censored: Oakland, :censored: Kampe, :censored: these Refs. Let's get out of the god damn Horizon League already!!!! >:(
The result of this game is invalid. A travesty. 41-12 free throws? Horizon League should be ashamed.
You're right, we need to leave this league if we're ever going to feel like we didn't just suffer a mafia hit.
KCarter hit the three to put us up 7, and I thought that'd've broken their backs.
Instead they end the game on a 31-10 run in 8 1/2 minutes, which is a pace of almost 160 points in a game.
Defense let us down more than the offense.
Also the refs.
(http://www.quickmeme.com/img/2e/2ea6e24199013f84e12c25e6bfac840a03c03c138c438d3f8e65dc91ec7a3fb7.jpg)
Alec Peters has to play better than this...that was an inexcusable loss.
That's true. He has had a very difficult week, though, so I'll give him a pass.
We need him to become the vocal leader that we always wanted Rowdy to be. To call for the ball, to settle people, etc.
Can he be that guy or is that out of character, do we think?
Refs could have called over the back on Oakland on the rebound at the end of regulation.
Also, Petros looks like more of a puss with the beard...
Quote from: Valpofan00 on January 02, 2015, 08:17:43 PM
:censored: Oakland, :censored: Kampe, :censored: these Refs. Let's get out of the god damn Horizon League already!!!! >:(
We need to start winning the league on a regular basis. Currently we have won it 2 out of the last 3 years and that's a good start. The only leagues we need to be looking for are with schools that are similar to us and get away form these commuter state schools.
Peters will be fine. He played poorly today, but is still the top player in the HL.
I thought that it was ridiculous watching how any time Felder initiated any type of contact, standing or in mid-air, they gave the foul to Oakland. The dude ended up 19/24 from the FT line. They received a lot of bail out calls that we didn't get (Tevonn Walker offensive rebound and put back, where he was shoved from behind). If I were Bryce, I would have been tossed long before he got his T, as it was ridiculous to watch the disparity. I never chalk up a loss to the refs, but they did not call this one down the middle at all. We were getting slapped on our arms on some of those bunnies we missed (Peters and Vashil), yet if Felder pushes off, he gets to go to the line. We will get our redemption when we beat the crap out of Oakland at home by 20...
Disaster. Keith was terrific but Felder was better. We now see what the rest of the conference will do against Alec. Tough loss, but not the end of the world.
1.Alec struggled the whole game after he missed the bunny they should of look to get carter and T. Walker more looks .2 why call a play at crunch time for vashil he has no post moves .3 cant complain about the refs the turnovers killed us
Quote from: vu72 on January 02, 2015, 08:26:30 PM
Disaster. Keith was terrific but Felder was better. We now see what the rest of the conference will do against Alec. Tough loss, but not the end of the world.
Oakland put an athlete on Alec. We tried posting up Alec. It didn't work and I expect other teams to put an athlete on him.
Sorry but horizon league refs suck..... I have watched a lot of basketball already and right when the season starts - refs show that they can't consistently call a game. It is not just me ... Kampe was all over them and Bryce was called for a tech when he noticed the lopsided calling. (announcers started saying refs will probably call a foul this time down the court - like they have a foul calling plan.)
i love valpo basketball but i want to watch good basketball and horizon league work to make the refs part of the show. Sorry but it is just horrible - maybe the replacement NFL refs could do better.
If we burn our wings
Flying too close to the sun
If the moment of glory
Is over before it's begun
If the dream is won
Though everything is lost
We will pay the price
But we will not count the cost
When the dust has cleared
And victory denied
A summit too lofty
River a little too wide
If we keep our pride
Though paradise is lost
We will pay the price
But we will not count the cost
"What's that jargle? Scritcher? Are you quotin' Scritcher?" (http://www.hrwiki.org/wiki/A_Folky_Tale)
Normally would say the the difference in fouls would be because we were not aggressive going to the basket, but that was not the case tonight. Maybe we did not throw ourselves at the defender the way Felder does, but that should not make a difference in the way the game is called. Any newbie ref should be able to discern between a legitimate attempt to score versus an attempt to concoct a foul. No way in the second half does a team only commits 5 fouls in 25 minutes of play in a tight game, a game that went into OVERTIME, I repeat, NO STINKING WAY. This crew needs to be shunned by the league office.
Did we play great? NO
Did we foul 28 times? Probably
Did they foul only 5 times in the second half and overtime? With complete certainty I can say NO
Bad ref job (they were bad in the UIC/YSU game too, not this bad) that horse has been beat just about enough....bad three point shooting (1st half especially)....horrid defense, can double the freshman, not Petros though...hard to win any road game in the HL.
OU Gameplan...
Play 1:
Felder aggressively drives to the basket for either a layup or a foul call. Kampe knows the HL refs love to blow the whistle, and Bryce must of forgotten this, because we did not drive with the same aggression. We had 13 more shot attempts, but far more jump shots.
Play 2:
Dribble to the left side and dump it to Petros in the post. He waits for the double team and then dumps it down to a cutting Hayes for a layup or Petros kicks it out for an open 3 pointer from one of their guards. This play worked all night and Bryce kept with the double team, which I just don't understand.
That said. OAKLAND IS BAD AT DEFENSE AND WE MISSED A LOT OF WIDE OPEN SHOTS. It was almost as if their defense was so bad that we couldn't help but shoot wide open jump shot after wide open jump shot. I mean, I understand it. When you are open you are supposed to shoot it. The problem is they are still lower percentage shots than getting to the basket and in this league you must go to the basket because the refs WILL reward you.
Let's go to the MVC? A10?
Because we can just go ahead and do that whenever we as fans would like? One loss and some of ya'll go coo-coo crazy.
I'm looking forward to seeing a whoopin on Sunday when Valpo beats up the Penguins.
To every one wishing for MVC refs please go to their forums and read comments after a loss. There aren't great CBB refs in the mid-majors.
That said outstanding game from Keith and I give this team a shitload of credit for the comeback and forcing it to overtime. They were clearly out of gas in OT and the loss was disappointing. But in a building we've lost in even as a tournament team, we've shown resiliency and heart. I still like this team to finish 2nd in the league
Quote from: Kyle321n on January 02, 2015, 09:17:26 PMThere aren't great CBB refs in the mid-majors.
(http://i.imgur.com/drAVH90.gif)
It's always difficult to win on the road. In the 2012 season we were only 5-4 away from the ARC during league play.
Not a lot of things went our way tonight. Peters (understandable) and Walker had off nights. Several players got into foul trouble. The officiating was questionable on either end of the court. None of that excuses a loss, but this was a tough to win game against a no-slouch opponent who was on their game in front of a home crowd, and we fell just short. I'm still confident that we'll compete, and we'll learn a thing or two about this team's tenacity on Sunday.
I'll go against popular opinion and give my "€@¢& you" of the day to the demise of the HLN rather than tonight's referees.
Oh and ESPN3 on my 4g phone worked perfectly fine while I had drinks at Franklin House. Not sure the complaint there.
Quote from: SanityLost17 on January 02, 2015, 08:57:33 PM
That said. OAKLAND IS BAD AT DEFENSE AND WE MISSED A LOT OF WIDE OPEN SHOTS. It was almost as if their defense was so bad that we couldn't help but shoot wide open jump shot after wide open jump shot. I mean, I understand it. When you are open you are supposed to shoot it. The problem is they are still lower percentage shots than getting to the basket and in this league you must go to the basket because the refs WILL reward you.
Logically you are correct, but what do bad defenses normally do? They normally committ bad fouls. That is why OU is averaging over 19.8 fouls a game. Could we have been more aggressive... sure, but I think our guards took the ball to the rack pretty well tonight. To have only 12 fouls, with the opposition having nearly double that many in a game that went into overtime, is unusual. Refs should not reward players who throw themselves into the defense in order to create fouls. That happened several times tonight. Even in the blow out games that we played there was never more than an 8 or 9 foul differece between the teams. The difference tonight was 16.
Now that I have calmed down a bit in playing with my 8 month old, it has been good to see Tevonn find his stroke from 3 over the last few games. He was shooting pitifully from 3 before these last 4 games, and he wasn't shy about shooting them. He has gotten up to 26%, and seems much more confident taking quality shots. He still does the Lavonte Dority every now and then, when he runs 'balls on fire' straight into the defense, having you saying 'what the heck are you doing...never mind, great job Tevonn!'
Quote from: Kyle321n on January 02, 2015, 09:42:29 PM
Oh and ESPN3 on my 4g phone worked perfectly fine while I had drinks at Franklin House. Not sure the complaint there.
well you were drinking. jerky distorted video seems par for the franklin house course ;)
2nd half was much better for me--anyone else?
This whole week has been so interesting reading what you guys have said about this game. You will win by 5 and then look back and say how did that ever happen. Peters will have 37, Class2014 you were only off the final margin by 39 points, you got the player of the year, the defender of the year ect ect ect. Bottom line..... we have beaten your 6 of the last 8 and Bryce(best coach in the league) is 1-5 vs us. The one win was a last second shot by a freshman who never played and left the team. Then one of your idiots like some 5 year old comes on our message board and says yea but we will still finish a head of you in the standings. The only thing missing was a na na na. By the way your center got 0 blocks, your stud had 7 points ( of course our defense will never get credit for that.) and even though you blew through the 225 best schedule in the country you are 0-1. Deal with it. Oh, I know, you got cheated. And for the guy who thinks Petros sucks, why did your coach think he's good enough to double every time he touch the ball, allowing a freshmen to score 16 on lay ups. Why, because he's the best center in the league!
Yeah while I probably have the most reasoned thoughts pregame, I will completely disagree with Petros as the best center in the league. That title belongs to Bobby Hain right now.
Quote from: Grizz on January 02, 2015, 10:56:45 PMOh, I know, you got cheated.
Hey, at least he admitted it. Big of him.
Kyle; you weren't even close in your write up about us. You had Jalen Hayes coming off the bench. If you knew what you we talking about you would have know that he had 16 against Pitt and 12 against Maryland and was a starter. Heck he's been the Freshman of the week in the league the last 2 weeks. But why would you want to deliver the facts. Also, Corey's numbers are against real comp. 4 of the top 20 teams in the country and Pitt and Clemson. Not against the crap comp that Youngstown and Valpo have played. I know, Bader was just a chucker. And you got cheated. For those who don't know, Terry Wymer did the game tonight and he has only done the last 2 final 4"s so I really don't know what league you could go in to get away from him.
Also interesting that you all are saying your guys were out of gas in overtime, yet we had one guy play 45 mins, one play 44 and one play 41. oh yea, our coach has no idea what he is doing, just trying to get good stats for our guys.
Quote from: Grizz on January 02, 2015, 10:56:45 PM
Then one of your idiots like some 5 year old comes on our message board
*he says as he comes on our message board*
Quote from: Grizz on January 02, 2015, 10:56:45 PM
but we will still finish a head of you in the standings.
Oh we will. Of that I'm confident. Go ahead and gloat in your victory today, we'll take our season over yours. And our last few seasons. And our next few seasons.
On a related note, it'd be nice to see a little rivalry develop here. The games are sure competitive enough.
Haha, you are delusional. Did you actually watch Petros? I don't care that our coach did something stupid and double teamed him. That made absolutely no sense to all of us when he did it, as Vashil was OWNING Petros all game. The best center in the league? What a friggin' joke! The dude was 3/11......let me put this in bigger font for you so that you can understand...3...for...11 ;D. Look at his history against Valpo, he has blown chunks of $h!+ from his hands, as his shots spray everywhere but through the net! I don't watch other Oakland games, but he apparently plays out of his mind against the other HL teams, as he looks like a SWAC player against Valpo each season.
Oakland is not a better team than Valpo, and whoever went on your site to say that we will be ahead of you in the standings, is correct. Yes, you have won 7 of the last 9, but enjoy it while you can, as that will change dramatically later this season and over the next few seasons. We appreciate you posting, but you also said last season that there wasn't any reason that you couldn't win the HL in your first season. Your credibility is zilch...
Peters was 3-11. What are you saying. He sucks. We didn't double him. Our 3-11 was against a double team.
No it wasn't. He was only double-teamed on a few possessions in the second half, and he always passed out of those situations. The shots he actually took were solo coverage by Vashil or Jubril. He would throw up a brick off the side of the backboard! I will say that he is smart enough to know what to do when he is double-teamed, as I kept hoping that he would try and shoot it instead. You are correct, in that Peters had no excuse for his shooting today. However, in the return game, you will see what he can really do, while Petros will put up the same lame @$$ performance. Felder is a good player, so again, my comments aren't about Oakland or other players. I have been saying for 4 seasons now that Petros is not good, and beg for him to shoot when he touches the ball. My posts can back me up here, and his performances against Valpo vindicate me as well. Petros was 9/24 last season for 11.5 ppg in 38.5 mpg, and on the other end, Peters was 10/18 against you guys last year for 12.5 ppg in 27.5 mpg, and showed that he is efficient.
Also, you mentioned that our last second win was by a little-used FR. That again shows your credibility is 0, as Clay Yeo was used quite a bit when he wasn't injured.
I wasn't going to join this discussion until I looked at the stat sheet and saw that Carter, D. Walker, and Peters played a combined 98 minutes and drew 0 fouls! I watched those three drive the basket a number of times (maybe they had even more when the ESPN streaming was frozen) and get hit, yet they did not receive a single foul shot in nearly 100 minutes of play. That is almost impossible to occur. On the other hand, Felder shoots 24 free throws playing less than half the time. Even given the fact that Felder manages to draw more free throws than most players, his average number of free throws coming into the game was only 5.7 not 24, while the combined average of free throws for the Valpo trio is 6.7. I look forward to the Feb. 8 game at the ARC!
Quote from: valpotx on January 03, 2015, 12:05:10 AMYou are correct, in that Peters had no excuse for his shooting today.
I would differ on this point. Given his family situation, Peters can be excused for however he plays in either game this weekend.
Valpopal, from what you have seen of Peters, do you seriously think that he was thinking of his grandfather's passing during the game? I can almost guarantee that he is the type of guy that once he gets on the court, he is focused on the task at hand.
Quote from: valpotx on January 03, 2015, 12:25:29 AM
Valpopal, from what you have seen of Peters, do you seriously think that he was thinking of his grandfather's passing during the game? I can almost guarantee that he is the type of guy that once he gets on the court, he is focused on the task at hand.
I didn't mean that he was thinking about his grandfather or his grieving family during the game, though I'm sure he did at times. I saw Alec the other evening, and I mentioned his subdued demeanor in a previous post. I wondered then whether the emotional strain and demands on Alec's time this week, including traveling back and forth to his home in Illinois while also traveling to Oakland, would drain him emotionally and physically. Knowing Alec, he would never make an excuse nor accept me claiming one here, but the situation would take a lot out of anyone, even this mature nineteen-year-old.
Oren re-tweeted the following head-scratching message, which certainly adds emphasis to my point above about the oddity of the officiating.
[tweet]551265121595834368[/tweet]
Quote from: valpopal on January 03, 2015, 12:38:49 AM
Quote from: valpotx on January 03, 2015, 12:25:29 AM
Valpopal, from what you have seen of Peters, do you seriously think that he was thinking of his grandfather's passing during the game? I can almost guarantee that he is the type of guy that once he gets on the court, he is focused on the task at hand.
I didn't mean that he was thinking about his grandfather or his grieving family during the game, though I'm sure he did at times. I saw Alec the other evening, and I mentioned his subdued demeanor in a previous post. I wondered then whether the emotional strain and demands on Alec's time this week, including traveling back and forth to his home in Illinois while also traveling to Oakland, would drain him emotionally and physically. Knowing Alec, he would never make an excuse nor accept me claiming one here, but the situation would take a lot out of anyone, even this mature nineteen-year-old.
Couldn't agree with you more Valpopal. A death in the immediate family is always physically taxing, at least to me. I don't care how competitive you are, the physical effects of grief are very real.
Quote from: Grizz on January 02, 2015, 11:19:14 PMFor those who don't know, Terry Wymer did the game tonight and he has only done the last 2 final 4"s so I really don't know what league you could go in to get away from him.
Terry Wymer had a bad game too Friday. Just like some of the Valpo players. Felder shooting 24 free throws is ridiculous. If someone on an opposing team shot 24 free throws against OU in a game where both teams were driving the lane you would be saying the same thing about the refs. One player should not get the benefit of 14 calls when both teams were driving the lane. That doesn't say anything about Felder's great play. It says something about the refs poor calls on both teams. 24 free throws by one player---jeeez man---you can't say that was an even way to call the game--no way!!! Whether you reffed final fours or not.
Quote from: valpotx on January 03, 2015, 12:25:29 AMValpopal, from what you have seen of Peters, do you seriously think that he was thinking of his grandfather's passing during the game? I can almost guarantee that he is the type of guy that once he gets on the court, he is focused on the task at hand.
I believe Peters was distracted by something. It may have been the fact that his family is grieving in central Illinois or not. But he had an awful time getting involved in the offensive play. His defender from OU had an excellent game.But he has learned to get open against excellent defenders before. Friday he didn't have it in him to be successful on the offensive end.
I missed all the fun! What happened?
Well I said after the New Mexico loss that we would lose a minimum of 4 HL games and it was always in the back of my mind that this could be one of them. I am not going to comment on a game I didn't see but my high expectations for the rest of this year and for next remain unshaken! So I hope we are working on putting together more of an Oakland-like schedule for next season!
To the person who asked about the bench warning, Bryce was warned because he was jumping all over the officials for a missed illegal screen by OU on an inbounds pass. He was very close to getting a tech on this. In fact, the ref who called the warning stopped the game to issue the warning.
In terms of our play, we ALWAYS struggle to pull out victories at the O-rena. It doesn't matter who our star player is, the entire team struggles to pull out a victory against this team. To Oakland, playing Valpo at the O-rena is the game they always circle on their schedule because it is the game for their fans that indicates where they are as a program. Look at all the games since they joined the Mid-Con/Summit and now the HL against Valpo at the O-rena, I don't recall any of these games being blowouts for a full game. Oakland gets up for this game, like a rivalry game, and Valpo just shows up and makes it a game. Even the year we played at Oakland as a part of their non-conference tourney, where we won in OT, it was a very competitive game that played out as an entertaining game. Tonight, we came out cold chucking from 3, then we regrouped and got back into the game, eventually taking the lead. I'm going to say that the pace of the game late and the fouls got to our heads and gassed us from putting this game away. Even if Alec was focused more on family than the game, Oakland took him out of the game by making sure that they left the wrong shooter open, who thankfully for the Grizz, to miss the 3-ball or turn the ball over.
Quote from: oklahomamick on January 02, 2015, 07:38:00 PM
Felder has an ability to drive the lane....
let me finish that for you
....and get 13 fouls called in his favor. You have to wonder how many times that has happened in all of NCAA basketball.
(http://media2.wxyz.com/photo/2014/02/18/Oakland%20basketball_1392749262913_3025730_ver1.0_640_480.PNG)
Kampe: Come on Terry, call the foul!
Wymer: Why not? Whose going to complain? Bryce Drew? Ha ha ha ha ha ha!!
Even with the foul and free throw disparity we were up by 7 with 4 minutes to go. I thought we were going to pull it off.
Like I said before, we lost our first HL game of the season against UIC at home and still won the conference.
Quote from: Grizz on January 02, 2015, 11:36:43 PMyou all are saying your guys were out of gas in overtime
oh right. everybody's saying that? nobody said that.
you must be related to the refs--you have the same highly selective eyesight.
This loss is on Bryce. He did not adjust to the way the refs called the game. Otherwise, Carter would not have taken 12 3 pointers. Those represent many opportunities to drive the lane. T. Walker was the most aggressive and was rewarded with 7 foul shots. One of sets of throws on a phantom call BTW, but again the refs were rewarding the attack of the basket. Kampe out coached Bryce, and has done so the last few years. He is a very experienced coach and Bryce still has a lot to learn.
Despite all this, had we hit just a few of our wide open 3's, it would not have mattered. I know, you could say that after any loss, but this one stands out more because we had some really amazing looks. D. Walker is officially in a shooting slump from 3 point land and in our offense his position must hit a few a game.
EKU, Murray, Portland, Missouri, NM, and ETSU are all better than Oakland as far as the eye test is concerned so it is not like our schedule did not prepare us for this game.
As a one-time math major, I thought I'd place in perspective this statistical aberration: according to Pomeroy, Felder's 24 free throws was the most by a D-1 player this year, which currently includes about 4,000 games. In his career of 47 games, only once has Felder ever even had 10 free throw attempts in a game.
We hit just 6 of 12 free throws for 50 percent. If we hit just one more we win in regulation. Just sayin.
You have to remember that of the 24 free throws 10 were in overtime, and all 10 of them Valpo fouled on purpose or 2 from the tech. Looking at it that way he shot 14 in regulation, is that a lot, yes, but would not be the highest on the year in our league. Valpo choose to foul him on purpose the last 2 1/2 minutes of overtime. So, like all stats, you can use them for what ever point you want to make. My question, Kay leads the league in free throw %, why would the best coach in the league keep putting him on the line in overtime?
Quote from: Grizz on January 03, 2015, 11:21:31 AMis that a lot, yes
At least he admits it. Big of him.
Enough sour grapes. Just kill 'em in Valpo and wake up to the intensity of the Mid-Con season.
Makes me think back to the Champagne brothers in 2000-ish at the ARC when they started slugging like Defensemen after they got behind by 25-ish.
Adding Oakland to the HL was good. They have a baseball team, they won a NCAA tourney game in Men's soccer and the swimming and diving teams dominate the conference just as our bball team once did in the Mid-con.
However I hate Oakland because their non conference scheduling (prostitution), Kempe working and/or crying to refs, large state school and subpar academic rankings/reputation.
I think I like Detroit more. Rivalry has decreased since the graduation of our goon and their Jr. They haven't been as competitive in the HL since they beat us in the conference final. Unfortunatilly our rivalry with the only other private school in the HL is losing it's fire.
It's not sour grapes from last night or all the times they beat me on the soccer field when I was attending Valpo. Kempe is good, I don't like his style or philosophy. Are they good for the HL? Yes. However, its just another state school in the HL that doesn't have the same philosophy or goals as Valpo does.
We did not play well, but still had a chance to win. As someone else pointed out, we only needed one more FT in regulation. Our team FT% will come up again in other close HL games.
According to ESPN's BPI, our three worst games are also our only losses:
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/bpi?id=2674&year=2015 (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/bpi?id=2674&year=2015)
Before last night Oakland was 3-4 against mid-major competition. They had 1 win against a team with a winning record. They have already suffered 3 home losses - WMU, Georgia State and 3-8 Western Carolina.
The reality is that we lost to a very mediocre mid-major team last night. Yes, the officiating was inexcusable, and yes, a guy had a career night he'll never have again, but this loss was all on us. Let Grizz have his day; it doesn't matter. At best, Oakland will finish somewhere between 5th and 7th in conference and time will prove that out. The important thing for us is to learn from this loss and get back to the business of competing for a championship.
All crap aside, what does it mean to have the same mission. Aren't both schools trying to educate kids. Teach them values they can take with them in life, ( since a very small % will make money playing basketball), be roll models, give back to the community and go forward in life a better person. Just because a school is founded for different reasons, shouldn't all basketball programs be able to say that. Having been around Oakland for so long I can tell you that is their mission. The amount of community service they do is amazing. I would guess what I know of your school the same is true. So why would you not want to be associated with us.
History lesson to those on this board who were born after 1990.
The Valpo-Oakland rivalry dates back to when Oakland first joined Division I and the Mid-Continent Conference in 1999.
Greg Kampe said back then, our goal is to "beat Valpo" and "be Valpo." He deserves a ton of credit for navigating Oakland's move from a premier Division II program to a very competitive Division I program.
He's a great guy, and he speaks the truth like just about no other coach in the Horizon outside of Billy Donlon.
Valpo won the first 17 games against Oakland. That ate at Kampe for many, many years. It also ate at the Grizz, who used to be a frequent poster on other incarnations of this Valpo message board.
It took a long time for Oakland to finally beat Valpo, and since that time the Grizzlies have pretty much had Valpo's number. And yes, a lot of it may be because Kampe still circles that game on the schedule for his kids. For Valpo, I'm sure the players get a lot of warning from the coaching staff. But until they actually experience it, and the vitriol and hatred at the O'Rena, it's going to be tough to beat them.
The rematch at the ARC will be fun to watch.
Might be a rivalry dating back to when I was born in 83. I respect Oakland as a university and athletic programs. I admire how quickly they went from Dii to playing in the NCAA tournament.
However, would I rather be linked to small private liberal art schools that rank the same and hold the same amount of endowment?
When I put on a valpo shirt in oklahoma and they ask who is in our conference (even though okc was the site where valpo made the sweet 16) I would rather answer with schools more like valpo. That way they don't get the impression we are a large commuter school similar to our conference foes. Drake, Evansville, Detroit, Loyola are schools I would rather be grouped with. And to be fair more similar to us.
With exception of northwestern, most big 10 schools are very similar.
Of course has nothing to do with the bball game last night. Apologies if I got off topic.
Quote from: Grizz on January 03, 2015, 01:47:52 PMbe roll models
maybe our missions are actually very different after all.
(http://www.jerrytchan.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Roll-Models-Teaser.jpg)
It's just frustrating losing to a team that has no interest in winning the league. Their schedule means the best possible seed they'd ever get would be 15. Due to Oakland's poor record, this really hurts Valpo's RPI. We haven't lost a game to a bad team yet this year, and it sucks losing the first one in conference.
And bravo to Grizz for the epic troll job.
Quote from: oklahomamick on January 03, 2015, 02:39:22 PM
Might be a rivalry dating back to when I was born in 83. I respect Oakland as a university and athletic programs. I admire how quickly they went from Dii to playing in the NCAA tournament.
However, would I rather be linked to small private liberal art schools that rank the same and hold the same amount of endowment?
When I put on a valpo shirt in oklahoma and they ask who is in our conference (even though okc was the site where valpo made the sweet 16) I would rather answer with schools more like valpo. That way they don't get the impression we are a large commuter school similar to our conference foes. Drake, Evansville, Detroit, Loyola are schools I would rather be grouped with. And to be fair more similar to us.
With exception of northwestern, most big 10 schools are very similar.
I was born in 1981, and didn't think of Oakland as a semi-rival until the last 2-3 years. Since all we did was go 10-0 or 11-0 against Oakland while I was in school, they were more of an afterthought for me in regards to basketball. Playing against them in baseball, it was pretty similar, where we usually beat Oakland as well.
Quote from: Grizz on January 02, 2015, 11:48:35 PM
Peters was 3-11. What are you saying. He sucks. We didn't double him. Our 3-11 was against a double team.
I can't believe you just said that. Any statement you make from now on is sh1t. That just proves how ignorant you are. I sure hope you were talking out of anger.
What occurred after we came all the way back from 16 down to take a 7 point lead late in the game was pretty bizarre. We clearly had them on the ropes, and somehow they turned around and hit back-to-back 3's. I remember just shaking my head in wonderment, thinking - what are the odds? I think I've answered my own question. First, there is a 1 in 3 chance that a 33% 3-pt. shooter will hit the first 3. Then, they hit a second consecutive 3. That is a probability of 1 in 10 (1/3 x 1/3). Then, think about last year's game up there, when Mondy (a 30% 3-pt. shooter) was 4-4 from 3, including 2 critical 3's late, and had a season high 24 points.
Some things just can't be explained.
Stuff happens. I remember thinking a lot of times Oakland just threw the ball at the basket and somehow the shots went in. It happens. But when you have free throws that no one can contest and you don't convert? That's on you. Stuff we could control? Free throws we could have made we didn't. Plays we could have run to get Peters a look from 3? I think I counted 3 the whole game. He converted 1. You can't control how the game is refereed. Hit free throws and run plays that free up your best shooter. We didn't do that and we still took the game to ot. We flat out sucked in ot. Learn from it and move on. And please, somehow figure out a way to hit 70 percent of our free throws!
Yeah, that FR that had 16 points threw a one-handed shot at the basket that clanged off the back of the rim, and stuck for a microsecond, before just dropping in. It was one of those 'thud' baskets, where you just shake your head and laugh.
1. The officials had a pretty bad night, but from my perch 6 rows behind the Valpo bench I do *not* believe the screwups were one-sided at all. I remember the horrendous blocking foul called on a stationary Peters in the first half (outside the semi-circle no less). I remember Carter getting plowed at half-court, no call. I also remember Carter getting fouled on that layup in the 2nd half and that was missed. I did not see the illegal screen that Bryce screamed about, but I suspect it was there. I also saw Petros get hacked several times with no call, I saw us get away with a travel and a double-dribble. That lack of continuation that Kampe screamed about is often awarded in that situation. There are others I'm probably forgetting. It wasn't home-cooking. It wasn't 5-on-8. It was 5-on-5-on-3. I remember a game exactly like that at the ORena back in 2003 and we won that one, so I guess it was their turn.
2. All coaches work the refs, even Homer did, and Bryce is even more forceful about it. Kampe is just more colorful than some. ORU fans hated him too, and I'm not overly impressed with their attitude either, as if Scott Sutton never ever worked the refs (yeah right).
3. They brought their A game and we brought our C-/D+ game, they had us by 16 because they shot unbelievably well and we looked lost at times. We fought back and sent it OT. I tip my cap to Kampe on this game.
4. His scheduling can be critiqued, but I refuse to join in any excoriation of him over it because there really is no good way for a mid-major to schedule these days.
5. Comparing fouls and FT attempts is no way to argue that the officiating was one-sided. It is at best circumstantial evidence. It *might* be enough for a warrant, but it's not enough for an arrest. In this game, you have no case, as Grizz ably pointed out. All they did was shoot FTs in the OT because all we were doing was fouling (even after the game was statistically over, by the way). I do remember in the 2nd half at one point it was 7-1 on the fouls, to which someone is entitled to respond: "Feel free not to foul so much." The problem was not the disparity in the fouls, the problem was that plenty of fouls were missed and others were called on the wrong team. And I'm sorry, but I thought almost all of the fouls Felder drew were legitimate. He was simply too much for us to handle. Both Bryce and Greg have ample reason to complain to the league office about this one, in my opinion.
We have to remember that Stl is a friend of Kampe's, when considering his comments ;). Only 12 of the FTs were because we fouled on purpose. That still puts it at a 29-12 FT advantage to Oakland (I refuse to call them OU, as that is Oklahoma). Some of the fouls on Felder were legitimate, several others were not.
We have to remember that Tex was not a math major when considering his comments.
Only 8 FT were because we fouled on purpose; 2 more were for the technical.
GOOD! LAYUP by Hayes, Jalen [PNT] 02:27 76-73 H 3
02:22 TIMEOUT 30sec
02:06 MISSED 3 PTR by PETERS, Alec
02:06 REBOUND (OFF) by WALKER, Tevonn
REBOUND (DEF) by Petros, Corey 02:01 MISSED LAYUP by WALKER, Tevonn
GOOD! JUMPER by Felder, Kahlil 01:37 78-73 H 5
REBOUND (DEF) by Felder, Kahlil 01:24 MISSED 3 PTR by CARTER, Keith
GOOD! FT SHOT by Felder, Kahlil 01:20 79-73 H 6 FOUL by NICKERSON, E. Victor (P2T17)
MISSED FT SHOT by Felder, Kahlil 01:20 REBOUND (DEF) by PETERS, Alec
01:20 SUB IN : WALKER, Darien
01:20 SUB OUT: NICKERSON, E. Victor
REBOUND (DEF) by Petros, Corey 01:07 MISSED JUMPER by PETERS, Alec
GOOD! DUNK by Williams, Dante [FB/PNT] 01:01 81-73 H 8
ASSIST by Daniels, Nick 01:01
00:53 TURNOVR by PETERS, Alec
STEAL by Felder, Kahlil 00:51
GOOD! FT SHOT by Felder, Kahlil 00:50 82-73 H 9 FOUL by CARTER, Keith (P5T18)
GOOD! FT SHOT by Felder, Kahlil 00:50 83-73 H 10
00:50 SUB IN : NICKERSON, E. Victor
00:50 SUB IN : SKARA, David
00:50 SUB OUT: CARTER, Keith
00:50 SUB OUT: PETERS, Alec
GOOD! FT SHOT by Felder, Kahlil 00:45 84-73 H 11 FOUL TECHNCL by the bench
GOOD! FT SHOT by Felder, Kahlil 00:45 85-73 H 12
SUB IN : McCune, Tommie 00:45 SUB IN : JOSEPH, Max
SUB OUT: Petros, Corey 00:45 SUB IN : DAVIDSON, Nick
00:45 SUB OUT: NICKERSON, E. Victor
00:45 SUB OUT: WALKER, Tevonn
REBOUND (DEF) by Felder, Kahlil 00:37 MISSED 3 PTR by WALKER, Darien
GOOD! FT SHOT by Felder, Kahlil 00:32 86-73 H 13 FOUL by SKARA, David (P3T19)
GOOD! FT SHOT by Felder, Kahlil 00:32 87-73 H 14
00:26 87-75 H 12 GOOD! LAYUP by WALKER, Darien [PNT]
GOOD! FT SHOT by Felder, Kahlil 00:19 88-75 H 13 FOUL by SKARA, David (P4T20)
GOOD! FT SHOT by Felder, Kahlil 00:19 89-75 H 14
REBOUND (DEF) by McCune, Tommie 00:14 MISSED JUMPER by WALKER, Darien
Oakland 89, Valparaiso 75
I love proving you wrong, Saders, as we all need to remember that Saders did not major in attention to detail when reading his comments ;). You conveniently forgot the 4 FTs taken at the end of regulation that were fouls to position us to stay in the game. BOOM (drops mic on LAA):
Turnover by PETERS,ALEC 00:37
00:36 Steal by DANIELS,NICK
Foul by CARTER,KEITH 00:35
00:35 68-70 FELDER,KAHLIL made free throw
Full timeout 00:35
00:35 FELDER,KAHLIL missed free throw
Defensive rebound by PETERS,ALEC 00:35
Sub In: ADEKOYA,JUBRIL 00:35
Sub Out: FERNANDEZ,VASHIL 00:35
WALKER,DARIEN missed 3-pointer 00:23
00:23 Defensive rebound by DANIELS,NICK
Foul by CARTER,KEITH 00:20
00:20 68-71 DANIELS,NICK made free throw
00:20 DANIELS,NICK missed free throw
Defensive rebound by ADEKOYA,JUBRIL 00:20
CARTER,KEITH made 3-pointer 00:11 71-71
00:02 FELDER,KAHLIL missed 3-pointer
Defensive rebound by TEAM 00:02
Hey ... don't blame the ref's... they had a place to catch to work the Lions-Cowboys game... :) :o
Quote from: valpotx on January 04, 2015, 03:38:21 PMThat still puts it at a 29-12 FT advantage to Oakland
And that's still the wrong argument to make. Like I said, "feel free to not foul so much."
Quote from: StlVUFan on January 04, 2015, 11:00:38 PM
Quote from: valpotx on January 04, 2015, 03:38:21 PMThat still puts it at a 29-12 FT advantage to Oakland
And that's still the wrong argument to make. Like I said, "feel free to not foul so much."
Your advice "to not foul so much" would make sense if Valpo had a record of fouling teams or if Felder had a record of causing a tremendous amount of free throws. However, in its 16 other games, Valpo has averaged just 16 fouls per game and their opponents have averaged just 15 free throws per game. Also, in his 47-game career, the most free throws Felder had in any game was 10, only once. Felder's career average for free throws is 4.3 per game. His average this season not counting Valpo: 5.7
Quote from: StlVUFan on January 04, 2015, 11:00:38 PM
Quote from: valpotx on January 04, 2015, 03:38:21 PMThat still puts it at a 29-12 FT advantage to Oakland
And that's still the wrong argument to make. Like I said, "feel free to not foul so much."
He may be looking at the stats wrong but I do believe that Felder was given a huge advantage in the fouls called department. If Valpo wasn't pushing down the lane the same as Felder than I would have believed there was more fouls by Valpo. We will just have to agree to disagree.
I truly believe that Bryce must have said something to Wymer that was similar to what another coach said to him at another game and it ticked him off royally. Once he gave the warning the game seemed to favor Oakland in the foul category by a great deal. I believe you can watch it again. The contact on the Valpo players driving the lane was the same as the contact on Felder.
Quote from: talksalot on January 04, 2015, 08:42:01 PM
Hey ... don't blame the ref's... they had a place to catch to work the Lions-Cowboys game... :) :o
Not to threadjack, but if I ruled the world I would definitely have a forensic accountant look into that ref's bank accounts as well as Jerry Jones's. Detroit got totally hosed on that flag pickup on the pass interference non-call and it cost them the game. Shameful.
That wasn't my only argument, I was just pointing out that without the fouls we meant to commit, that was the true difference. I had earlier pointed out that our players drove the lane just as much as Oakland, and the same contact that was called for fouls on Valpo, was not called against Oakland. My examples were when Tevonn got an offensive rebound in mid-air, and was blatantly pushed/launched by an Oakland player, as well as a phantom foul on Peters after a rebound. It seemed that because Felder is 5'9"/very small for basketball, that he was given a major benefit in that any contact he caused, looked a lot more like a foul against the defense than it should have been. The defensive player has just as much right to stand their ground in a certain point on the court, as the offensive player does in trying to get to the basket.
I'm not going to dispute the fact that the refs weren't great, they really weren't, but I want to point out to those who think Felder drew an inordinate amount of fouls from us, he draws an average of 5.9 Fouls/40 which is second in the league. Get ready to be mad at how many FTs Jay Harris gets Thursday.
Quote from: Kyle321n on January 05, 2015, 10:41:41 AMGet ready to be mad at how many FTs Jay Harris gets Thursday.
Against Cleveland State Jay Harris shot 3 of 14 (0 of 4 from three) but 7 of 7 FTs for a total of 13 points. Against YSU Harris had 32 points on 13 for 13 FTs. If there is anyone on UIC you don't want to commit a lot of fouls against it's Jay Harris. Not fouling Jay made the difference in the margin of victory (5) for CSU.
http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/ilch/sports/m-baskbl/auto_pdf/2014-15/box_score/stats_20150104aaa.pdf (http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/ilch/sports/m-baskbl/auto_pdf/2014-15/box_score/stats_20150104aaa.pdf)
Quote from: Kyle321n on January 05, 2015, 10:41:41 AM
I'm not going to dispute the fact that the refs weren't great, they really weren't, but I want to point out to those who think Felder drew an inordinate amount of fouls from us, he draws an average of 5.9 Fouls/40 which is second in the league. Get ready to be mad at how many FTs Jay Harris gets Thursday.
If Felder had anywhere near his average of free throws in the Oakland game, I doubt anyone would be mad. The same is true for Harris, whose average is 5.2 free throws per game, especially since on average Valpo is not a team that gives opponents a ton of free throws.
I was not able to watch this game. From the box score the disparity of fouls generally indicates one team being woefully out of position, extremely lethargic, or the refs really blew it. I'm going with the latter. As others have said, we had a 7 point lead with under four minutes remaining. This is when we need to put these games away. In the last 3:54 of the game, we had 4 fouls to their 0, 3 TO's to their 1, attempted 4 shots to their 6, and no FT attempts to their 6. With a lead, we should be finding a way to the FT line. Oakland also had two ORebounds to our zero. Overall, our FG%, 3-pt % and FT% kept Oakland in the game, and gave them a chance at Overtime. One could say that Oakland's defense may have had something to do with our FG%, but we should have hit more FTs, keeping the game from OT. These are the type of games we need to finish and win to be a top 50 team.
If someone had told me we'd be 14-3 at this point of the season, I would have taken it very quickly. This is a good team, and will find ways to win in the future. They need to win out at home and pick up an unexpected road win.
I found this statement today from the League to be quite interesting
QuoteFelder was 19-of-24 from the foul line in the contest, setting the Oakland and Horizon League record for free throw attempts and matching the League record for free throws made.
Quote from: FWalum on January 05, 2015, 01:30:41 PM
I found this statement today from the League to be quite interesting QuoteFelder was 19-of-24 from the foul line in the contest, setting the Oakland and Horizon League record for free throw attempts and matching the League record for free throws made.
My comment to the league would be a quote borrowed from Chevy Chase: "Nothin' to be proud of, Rusty!"
"Can hardly see the line, can you, Kahlil?"
I went back and watched the whole game and noted all the foul calls and non-calls that I felt could have gone either way or were obviously missed with the time on the clock noted. There were definitely some that went Valpo's way for sure. There were not nearly as many fouls called, when Felder was driving the lane, that I thought had been called and were not fouls as I thought there were. The most controversy, I felt, were in the fouls not called on the Grizzlies. Remember I counted anything that could have been called or was called that could have gone either way or was obviously a bad call.
first half:
Valpo 17 calls/non calls against
Oakland 7 calls/non calls against
second half:
Valpo 22 calls/non calls against
Oakland 8 calls/non calls against
Overtime:
Valpo 5 calls/non calls against
Oakland 2 calls/non calls against
Total:
Valpo 44 calls/non calls against
Oakland 17 calls/non calls against
Even if my bias showed that is still 3 times as many calls/non calls against Valpo. I realize that the home team is expected to get most of the calls but not in that heavy handed fashion. Wymer and refing crew had a lousy game.
Here are the real controversial calls in my view:
First half:
1. 17:37 Felder drives Vashil slaps his wrist lightly-ends in three point play
2. 15:33 Bryce given bench warning for arguing offensive foul on Valpo.
3. 7:26 Darien possibly fouled from behind driving lane on fast break ball knocked out of bounds
4. 6:38 Tavonn called for foul on three point shot by Felder--makes 2 of 3 FTs
5. 5:02 Carter drove lane and scored no foul called could have been 3 point play--Bryce argued no call
6. 3:47 Carter drove lane slapped at by 3 Oakland players--no call--Bryce argued no call
7. 0:06.8 Daniels drove lane and foul called--Bryce argued call
The last 3 minutes of the 1st half and halftime is when the broadcast had technical difficulties as the broadcast started freezing.
it had been fixed by the start of the 2nd half.
second half:
8. 19:30 Hayes takes pass in lane foul called on Peters (his 3rd foul) both FTs made
9. 18:55 Peters drove outside lane Petros blocks shot but looked like he got a lot of body on Peters
10. 16:18 Tevonn run over by Hayes near center of court--worst call of night--no foul--then Nickerson called for much lighter foul on Hayes.
11. 14:23 Adekoya called for foul in scrum on floor for loose ball (14:21 Announcers mention that the foul differential is 5-1 and expect foul to be called on Oakland)
12. 13:50 Nickerson driving lane balled knocked away--no foul call--Bryce argued no call
13. 12:43 Carter scores on drive on edge of lane--announcer said a foul should have been called for three point play--no foul called--Bryce argued no call
14. 10:43 Peters rebounds--misses put back--possible foul--no call--terrible call--announcers mention that could have been foul.(10:15 Announcers mention foul differential of 7-1 and yet no fouls called on Oakland in last few minutes--surprising--expect foul on Oakland)
15. 7:36 Felder drives lane Carter called for foul for light slap on wrist--Kampe goes irate because he thought foul should have been called on shot that Felder made but refs had called foul on floor. In essence Kampe was admitting there was no foul on floor. Kampe gets so irate he twirls around and ends up by tunnel. BAD CALL
16. 3:25 Offensive foul called on Vashil on screen--much like other screens Vashil sets--Bryce argues call.
17. 2:28 Felder drove lane knocks Carter out of bounds with his butt--much contact--announcers mention too much contact--no call.
OVERTIME:
18. 3:50 Tevonn drove lane--possible foul--no call--BAD CALL--Bryce argues call
19. 3:15 Petros gets pass in lane--foul called on Vashil (his fifth foul)--Bryce argues call and eventually gets Technical Foul called on him.
20. 2:03 Tavonn got rebound and goes up for put back--looked like foul--announcers mention possible foul--no call
Quote from: valpotx on January 04, 2015, 08:10:08 PMTurnover by PETERS,ALEC 00:37
00:36 Steal by DANIELS,NICK
Foul by CARTER,KEITH 00:35
00:35 68-70 FELDER,KAHLIL made free throw
Full timeout 00:35
00:35 FELDER,KAHLIL missed free throw
Defensive rebound by PETERS,ALEC 00:35
Sub In: ADEKOYA,JUBRIL 00:35
Sub Out: FERNANDEZ,VASHIL 00:35
WALKER,DARIEN missed 3-pointer 00:23
00:23 Defensive rebound by DANIELS,NICK
Foul by CARTER,KEITH 00:20
It was Darien Walker's miss with :23 seconds left that really hurt us in this game. Darien had missed 6 previous threes while Keith Carter had hit his proceeding three shot. If Keith had nailed a three with 20-some seconds left along with the three at the end of the game it would have really launched him into Valpo record books as the hero of this season. Too bad. Keith has really deserved it.
Dude... That is a great summary of the game. Too bad the refs probably do not care.
bbtds ... When was the obvious over the back?
Quote from: historyman on January 05, 2015, 07:46:55 PMIt was Darien Walker's miss with :23 seconds left that really hurt us in this game.
I tell you what, you're right, and the only thing that has saved that guy is KC's shot later.
I was already composing a DIATRIBE of Tremendous Proportion where I was going to say Things That Cannot Be Taken Back like "THIS GUY IS JORDAN AARON IN BROWN AND GOLD" and such.
Here's his season. Look at his shot numbers in November, and then compare them to THE REST OF THE SEASON.
At some point, it's not a slump; it's who you are.
(http://s8.postimg.org/auj0mrsjp/Screen_Shot_2015_01_05_at_9_44_07_PM.png)
(http://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-there-was-a-little-girl-who-had-a-little-curl-right-in-the-middle-of-her-forehead-when-she-henry-wadsworth-longfellow-248028.jpg)
I do think Tavonn and Keith should be taking more of Darien shots. Of course with the Oakland announcers they just kept calling both Tavonn and Darien "Walker" and you weren't sure who they were talking about. The color guy kept saying that Darien was a "giant killer to the Grizzlies" and I truly believe he was confusing Darien with Tavonn because Darien hadn't hit many two pointers and no threes most of the game until he started making a few lay-ups at the end of regulation.
Man, I knew that Darien had struggled over the last 5-6 games, but didn't know that it was just about every game in December! He does good things outside of scoring in order to contribute, but hopefully finds that November touch again. Maybe he came back to Earth, but hopefully he is somewhere in-between what we have seen.
Let's put this in perspective.
In 7 of our games, he had more points than shots.
One game they were equal.
IN NINE GAMES HE HAD MORE SHOTS TAKEN THAN POINTS SCORED.
That's a clear message that you shouldn't be shooting so much. you're WASTING POSSESSIONS.
As much as I hate to say it, Jordan Aaron (ca. 2012-13) now plays for VU.
Alec Peters has 3 such games (more shots than points) for reference.
T Walker has 4. As does KC.
D Walker has 9. Is shooting 36.7%.
As I said during the game about that 3 with 23 sec left: how is he any better than the 4th option on the court with those three guys?
In the chat room on Sunday we talked a little about Darien. I said at that time "He has gotten it into his head that we need him to score and I think he is forcing it". It was great in those early games to have him really take over that #2 scoring position behind Alec. We were all wondering how this kid got away from some of the other programs and was hanging around late without signing with anyone else. Now that Tevonn and Keith have become more acclimated, Darien should just let the game come to him, no need to force, he doesn't HAVE to score. I think that "forcing it" has allowed some "shooting mechanics" issues to pop up as it looks like he is flinging the ball at the basket with a lot more elbow than he did earlier. Keep doing the good stuff like playing great defense and rebounding let the play come to you and good things will happen again for Darien.
Fwalum, I was just discussing this same thing with my wife. We looked at his shooting form and noticed that he was really loading up before his shots back in November and wondered if someone was trying to "help" him get a quicker release. We see him fling the ball lately. (In golf, when someone messes with an ugly but successful swing it often becomes an ugly unsuccessful swing.)
I would say that many players (and fans) think the sign of success is scoring statistics but sometimes it is the quiet player that impacts the game significantly...
Quote from: Smj on January 05, 2015, 07:55:56 PM
bbtds ... When was the obvious over the back?
I don't remember that call or non-call of "over-the-back." Wasn't that in the YSU game on Sunday?
Quote from: Smj on January 06, 2015, 03:20:14 PMFwalum, I was just discussing this same thing with my wife. We looked at his shooting form and noticed that he was really loading up before his shots back in November and wondered if someone was trying to "help" him get a quicker release.
So the wife helps analyse shooting mechanics??? Lucky man!
That was the ysu game. I actually posted something about it on that thread when it happen as a I was astandished by the play.
Quote from: Smj on January 06, 2015, 03:20:14 PMFwalum, I was just discussing this same thing with my wife. We looked at his shooting form and noticed that he was really loading up before his shots back in November and wondered if someone was trying to "help" him get a quicker release. We see him fling the ball lately.
Quote from: FWalum on January 06, 2015, 09:09:50 PMSo the wife helps analyse shooting mechanics??? Lucky man!
I'm not saying that this is what happens with Smj and his wife but in many marriages the wife likes to be interested in things that the husband is interested in. She learns a few things and this makes the husband happy which makes the wife happy that the husband is happy. When Smj points out to his wife some problems in shooting mechanics that Darien has she files that in her head. When Smj brings it up again during the Oakland live internet feed she mentions that which Smj mentioned earlier about Darien's shooting habits and is happy she can talk with her husband about something he is interested in. All the ideas come from Smj while his wife listens and repeats his ideas and that makes Smj happy and therefore makes his wife happy. It's similar to what my wife does but if you asked her what her opinion of a certain player or team was she would always repeat my opinion because that keeps me happy.
If I'm wrong then please let me know but I've noticed this pattern in my own marriage many times.
Sometimes husbands are even more guilty of this when they try to be interested in things that their wives are passionate about.
If you really pay attention to your marriage you will see it sometimes happening which, of course, is not a bad thing.
My wife has taken to calling fouls even if it's on us. I have to remind her that we're rooting for Valpo and if the refs called fouls on us it wouldn't be good. She just wants fair calls on both sides.
Quote from: bbtds on January 05, 2015, 03:43:49 PM
I went back and watched the whole game and noted all the foul calls and non-calls that I felt could have gone either way or were obviously missed with the time on the clock noted. There were definitely some that went Valpo's way for sure. There were not nearly as many fouls called, when Felder was driving the lane, that I thought had been called and were not fouls as I thought there were. The most controversy, I felt, were in the fouls not called on the Grizzlies. Remember I counted anything that could have been called or was called that could have gone either way or was obviously a bad call.
first half:
Valpo 17 calls/non calls against
Oakland 7 calls/non calls against
second half:
Valpo 22 calls/non calls against
Oakland 8 calls/non calls against
Overtime:
Valpo 5 calls/non calls against
Oakland 2 calls/non calls against
Total:
Valpo 44 calls/non calls against
Oakland 17 calls/non calls against
Even if my bias showed that is still 3 times as many calls/non calls against Valpo. I realize that the home team is expected to get most of the calls but not in that heavy handed fashion. Wymer and refing crew had a lousy game.
Here are the real controversial calls in my view:
First half:
1. 17:37 Felder drives Vashil slaps his wrist lightly-ends in three point play
2. 15:33 Bryce given bench warning for arguing offensive foul on Valpo.
3. 7:26 Darien possibly fouled from behind driving lane on fast break ball knocked out of bounds
4. 6:38 Tavonn called for foul on three point shot by Felder--makes 2 of 3 FTs
5. 5:02 Carter drove lane and scored no foul called could have been 3 point play--Bryce argued no call
6. 3:47 Carter drove lane slapped at by 3 Oakland players--no call--Bryce argued no call
7. 0:06.8 Daniels drove lane and foul called--Bryce argued call
The last 3 minutes of the 1st half and halftime is when the broadcast had technical difficulties as the broadcast started freezing.
it had been fixed by the start of the 2nd half.
second half:
8. 19:30 Hayes takes pass in lane foul called on Peters (his 3rd foul) both FTs made
9. 18:55 Peters drove outside lane Petros blocks shot but looked like he got a lot of body on Peters
10. 16:18 Tevonn run over by Hayes near center of court--worst call of night--no foul--then Nickerson called for much lighter foul on Hayes.
11. 14:23 Adekoya called for foul in scrum on floor for loose ball (14:21 Announcers mention that the foul differential is 5-1 and expect foul to be called on Oakland)
12. 13:50 Nickerson driving lane balled knocked away--no foul call--Bryce argued no call
13. 12:43 Carter scores on drive on edge of lane--announcer said a foul should have been called for three point play--no foul called--Bryce argued no call
14. 10:43 Peters rebounds--misses put back--possible foul--no call--terrible call--announcers mention that could have been foul.(10:15 Announcers mention foul differential of 7-1 and yet no fouls called on Oakland in last few minutes--surprising--expect foul on Oakland)
15. 7:36 Felder drives lane Carter called for foul for light slap on wrist--Kampe goes irate because he thought foul should have been called on shot that Felder made but refs had called foul on floor. In essence Kampe was admitting there was no foul on floor. Kampe gets so irate he twirls around and ends up by tunnel. BAD CALL
16. 3:25 Offensive foul called on Vashil on screen--much like other screens Vashil sets--Bryce argues call.
17. 2:28 Felder drove lane knocks Carter out of bounds with his butt--much contact--announcers mention too much contact--no call.
OVERTIME:
18. 3:50 Tevonn drove lane--possible foul--no call--BAD CALL--Bryce argues call
19. 3:15 Petros gets pass in lane--foul called on Vashil (his fifth foul)--Bryce argues call and eventually gets Technical Foul called on him.
20. 2:03 Tavonn got rebound and goes up for put back--looked like foul--announcers mention possible foul--no call
Good job.
What happened to the horrible blocking foul on Peters in the first half?
Quote from: StlVUFan on January 07, 2015, 05:34:52 PMWhat happened to the horrible blocking foul on Peters in the first half?
I believe your thinking of this foul in the second half.
14. 10:43 Peters rebounds--misses put back--possible foul--no call--terrible call--announcers mention that could have been foul.(10:15 Announcers mention foul differential of 7-1 and yet no fouls called on Oakland in last few minutes--surprising--expect foul on Oakland)I didn't notice that any other calls against Peters that seemed really bad or controversial in the first half. What can I say?
Quote from: bbtds on January 07, 2015, 06:14:57 PM
Quote from: StlVUFan on January 07, 2015, 05:34:52 PMWhat happened to the horrible blocking foul on Peters in the first half?
I believe your thinking of this foul in the second half.
14. 10:43 Peters rebounds--misses put back--possible foul--no call--terrible call--announcers mention that could have been foul.(10:15 Announcers mention foul differential of 7-1 and yet no fouls called on Oakland in last few minutes--surprising--expect foul on Oakland)
I didn't notice that any other calls against Peters that seemed really bad or controversial in the first half. What can I say?
No, I'm thinking of a blocking foul called on Peters in the first half (happened on the same side as the Valpo bench and the section I was sitting in. He was standing perfectly still and he was outside the semi-circle. It should have been a charge.
That happened against YSU. 0:39 of the highlights. http://youtu.be/CqJ4TZgpFUQ (http://youtu.be/CqJ4TZgpFUQ)
Actually guys.... I am super lucky - my wife loves basketball and used to play point guard. She probably knows more about the game than I do.
Quote from: Grizz on January 03, 2015, 01:47:52 PM
All crap aside, what does it mean to have the same mission. Aren't both schools trying to educate kids. Teach them values they can take with them in life, ( since a very small % will make money playing basketball), be role models, give back to the community and go forward in life a better person. Just because a school is founded for different reasons, shouldn't all basketball programs be able to say that. Having been around Oakland for so long I can tell you that is their mission. The amount of community service they do is amazing. I would guess what I know of your school the same is true. So why would you not want to be associated with us.
All educational institutions have the mission to teach values, be roll models and give back to the community. Only some are better than others at practicing that mission. Grizz, you mention the amount of community service at Oakland. I know there are several rankings out there but I could not find any that included Oakland. Washington Monthly designated Valpo as #3 in the nation for its efforts in the community. There are so many categories and different rankings today. I find Valpo to get the notch over Oakland in several of these rankings and categories. The two schools are very different in public vs. private, student size, community service, academics, etc.
In my opinion, the basketball programs are very different. As of late, Valpo basketball has seen an increase for incoming transfers. However, none of the incoming transfers have been dismissed from their previous schools. Valpo's program doesn't go to tournaments and return with players suspended due to rape allegations.
Grizz, I think the two schools and basketball programs are a little different despite having the same mission. I respectively disagree with you.
Quote from: vusupporter on January 07, 2015, 09:47:39 PM
That happened against YSU. 0:39 of the highlights. http://youtu.be/CqJ4TZgpFUQ (http://youtu.be/CqJ4TZgpFUQ)
It *also* happened against YSU. It absolutely happened at Oakland.
And in the YSU game, it was actually the right call. I was behind the basket, and he did move.