Poll
Question:
How many players on our current roster will transfer?
Option 1: None
votes: 3
Option 2: One
votes: 11
Option 3: Two
votes: 17
Option 4: Three
votes: 11
Option 5: More then (than) three
votes: 19
I'm not sure how I feel about speculating who will, won't, should or shouldn't transfer (I can be swayed either way). I see no harm in speculating how many may head out looking elsewhere.
Luckily nobody on this team is irreplaceable. We have no stars...we don't even have a fan favorite...maybe John kiaser. I love Valpo but i find it hard to support this coach and most of the players....i just want to see improvements. I want to see development. I want to see plays getting ran successfully. If our current roster returns minus Dion and we develope like we have..i see us in the lower half of the conference next season.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
Well-said, 219. Well-said. Agreed.
Quote from: truth219 on March 08, 2019, 02:32:40 PMIf our current roster returns minus Dion and we develope like we have..i see us in the lower half of the conference next season.
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on March 08, 2019, 02:46:59 PMWell-said, 219. Well-said. Agreed.
I sense that you two are younger guys who are probably unable to wager and lose large sums. If I have misjudged your resources I think you will find most of the rest of the board lining up to place bets on your assessment. ;)
I hope we don't lose either Javonn or Sackey.
My thoughts are one of Derrick or Jaume. either to play for money abroad or just a change of scenery.
My other thought is either Bakari or Micah if injury is that bad for them.
We couldn't compete in a down year in the MVC. If the conference bounces back next year, we will have to make that much more if a stride forward.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
Quote from: wh on March 08, 2019, 02:56:49 PMHe was give an opportunity, and I'm sure he's worked hard to improve his game. That's all anyone can ask. My problem isn't with him. It's with the coaching staff (especially the main recruiter) and possibly some clueless Merrillville and Duneland Conference people who clearly misassessed his value.
I've already thrown in his towel. Mileek was an interesting gamble but we haven't seen enough progress to stick with him. Even if he improves dramatically he will face reduced minutes. I'm not seeing how he should stay either from his or the VU point of view.
Adding Eron Gordon, Nick Robinson, and Donovan Clay. All three are supposed to be 3 point threats. Add that to a healthy Bradford (if he returns) and healthy Fazekas, we might have solved our three point shooting problem, which I think is really causing our offensive problems. Every game we seemed to have a stretch where we would show promise of driving to the hoop, and the offense would look like it is going to catch on, but then the other team would switch to zone and shut down any of that momentum, and we would have no way to break that zone because we had no (healthy/available) three point shooters. The defense was not an issue at all this year, in fact I would say it was a good defense, but the inability to have any offensive momentum really killed us. Having options from deep next year will be a huge boost in my opinion and could really open up the offense and allow us to control how we want to plain the offensive end.
Quote from: crusader05 on March 08, 2019, 03:04:50 PMMy other thought is either Bakari or Micah if injury is that bad for them.
I think Bakari stays and provides fewer but stronger bench minutes.
If Micah is still in pain his whole basketball future is open to question. Granted it took Lexus over 2 years to return to his pre injury form but Micah will not be given that kind of time. I'm hoping his situation gets clarified in the near future. An accurate description of his progress would be very helpful.
Bakari has already transferred once. Unless he's graduated I don't think he'd even consider it. He also seemed to be a favorite of Lottich's.
Outside the two 7'ers Mileek is the only size Valpo has. I don't see him going anywhere either especially if one of them leaves.
Should be an interesting month or two or however long it takes for these things to shake out.
The goal right now should be to pull out all stops to keep Smits on board for next year. He's grad-transfer eligible and you know he has plenty of schools sniffing around him now that the season is over. Hopefully those P5 schools be a bit more classy and tactful about it than they were with Alec.
(That said, I have heard the fact that said P5 schools basically treated Alec like a piece of meat who'd automatically bail on his teammates because of the brand name on their jerseys was one of the things that helped to keep him at Valpo. So maybe we're rooting for P5 fans and coaches to be as crass and arrogant about this as they've always been).
Smits improved significantly this season and there's no reason to think he won't be a dominant Valley player next year. ML would be wise to put a full-court press on to keep him around.
Quote from: M on March 08, 2019, 04:48:41 PMOutside the two 7'ers Mileek is the only size Valpo has. I don't see him going anywhere either especially if one of them leaves.
Mileek with 5 fouls in 10 minutes. I recall none on offense. You can argue that he was defending good scorers but that is my exact point. ML thinks defense first and McMillan can't cut it.
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on March 08, 2019, 05:27:11 PM
"I sense that you two are younger guys who are probably unable to wager and lose large sums. If I have misjudged your resources I think you will find most of the rest of the board lining up to place bets on your assessment. ;)"
I have no idea what this means. Other than trying to play the good ol' ageism card in an effort to puff up your own chest? No idea. Like, I seriously must be an idiot because I have NO idea what you're talking about. Sorry for my incompetence. Please forgive me, leader of the world.
Translation
If you want side bets on VU finishing bottom half for 2019-20 you'll find all the takers you want and you won't have to look far to find them.
I think Smits is the canary in the coal mine for this program. If he jumps ship for a P5 school, then maybe the outlook for next year isn't all that it's cracked up to be.
Maybe a bottom dweller power 5
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
Like Vanderbilt 🤔😂
I feel like Smits would worry me the least as even if we had a decent season I could see him being lured away.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on March 08, 2019, 06:10:19 PM
The goal right now should be to pull out all stops to keep Smits on board for next year. He's grad-transfer eligible and you know he has plenty of schools sniffing around him now that the season is over. Hopefully those P5 schools be a bit more classy and tactful about it than they were with Alec.
(That said, I have heard the fact that said P5 schools basically treated Alec like a piece of meat who'd automatically bail on his teammates because of the brand name on their jerseys was one of the things that helped to keep him at Valpo. So maybe we're rooting for P5 fans and coaches to be as crass and arrogant about this as they've always been).
Smits improved significantly this season and there's no reason to think he won't be a dominant Valley player next year. ML would be wise to put a full-court press on to keep him around.
Smits is a gump who can't guard MVC level players let alone P5...I'm not worried even if he decides to leave. He is the least self aware defender on the court (except for when McMillan enters the game for his prerequisite 5-and-2...five minutes and two fouls).
Still excited to see what we have with our three new guys for next season.
I'm not sure what he's suppose to say in this circumstance and it's probably best not to be 100% candid but there is no way he hasn't thought about it.
I hope he stays and helps lead Valpo to a special season. We need our perimeter player to get better at hitting their outside shots to help Smits and Sorolla down low. Loyola was just crashing the paint and disrespecting our backcourt and it was a smart strategy that ever Valley team was doing towards the end of the season to us. Guys need to work on their shooting this offseason, among other things.
https://twitter.com/nwioren/status/1104129126447894528?s=21
I went with two transfers. I think a few individuals who frequent this board know something and they weren't will to share during the season for worry of creating a bunch of further speculation and now that the season is over it will be interesting to see if they're willing share with us all.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on March 08, 2019, 08:25:09 PMQuote from: bigmosmithfan1 on March 08, 2019, 06:10:19 PMThe goal right now should be to pull out all stops to keep Smits on board for next year. He's grad-transfer eligible and you know he has plenty of schools sniffing around him now that the season is over. Hopefully those P5 schools be a bit more classy and tactful about it than they were with Alec. (That said, I have heard the fact that said P5 schools basically treated Alec like a piece of meat who'd automatically bail on his teammates because of the brand name on their jerseys was one of the things that helped to keep him at Valpo. So maybe we're rooting for P5 fans and coaches to be as crass and arrogant about this as they've always been). Smits improved significantly this season and there's no reason to think he won't be a dominant Valley player next year. ML would be wise to put a full-court press on to keep him around.
Smits is a gump who can't guard MVC level players let alone P5...I'm not worried even if he decides to leave. He is the least self aware defender on the court (except for when McMillan enters the game for his prerequisite 5-and-2...five minutes and two fouls). Still excited to see what we have with our three new guys for next season.
Call me crazy but I still believe in McMillan if he ever learns to control and use his body without fouling he will be a force.
I like McMillan too. He could be really good if he didn't foul so much. What's the deal with Micah's injury?
Was Micah in St. Louis?
I did not see him but injured players typically don't travel
Quote from: truth219 on March 08, 2019, 02:32:40 PM
Luckily nobody on this team is irreplaceable. We have no stars...we don't even have a fan favorite...maybe John kiaser. I love Valpo but i find it hard to support this coach and most of the players....i just want to see improvements. I want to see development. I want to see plays getting ran successfully. If our current roster returns minus Dion and we develope like we have..i see us in the lower half of the conference next season.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
Dude, have you not followed the physical issues surrounding this team? Do you think a healthy Ryan Fazekas won't help the team? Do you think adding a guy like Eron Gordon, a top five kid coming out of Indiana or Nick Robinson, a top ten kid coming out of illinois or adding Donovon Clay, a 6'7" freaky athletic kid, won't make this a successful team? I don't know either, but if you can't see the possibility of success then perhaps you should follow a different team.
And as far as fan favorites, I vote for an all freshman, all defensive team kid. I'm pretty sure his name is Javon Freeman.
Quote from: valpolaw on March 08, 2019, 09:20:01 PM
I like McMillan too. He could be really good if he didn't foul so much. What's the deal with Micah's injury?
[/b]
Darn good question. I have wondered this as well. What kind of injury that keeps you out of uniform for basicly the entire year, doesn't require surgery? And if it does, why didn't the surgery already occur? My guess is, and that is all it is, is that he and the coach have decided that in all likelihood, given the added depth at guard, that his playing time would be very limited to zero and so why not preserve a year of eligibility and allow him to play someplace else. It is the only thing that makes sense given what we know--(which is ZERO) ???
Quote from: vu72 on March 09, 2019, 08:24:25 AM
Dude, have you not followed the physical issues surrounding this team? Do you think a healthy Ryan Fazekas won't help the team? Do you think adding a guy like Eron Gordon, a top five kid coming out of Indiana or Nick Robinson, a top ten kid coming out of illinois or adding Donovon Clay, a 6'7" freaky athletic kid, won't make this a successful team? I don't know either, but if you can't see the possibility of success then perhaps you should follow a different team.
And as far as fan favorites, I vote for an all freshman, all defensive team kid. I'm pretty sure his name is Javon Freeman.
I would definitely have faith in Robinson's ability to produce at a level that Valpo can use immediately. He's already done it, and he didn't use a high volume of possessions at Saint Joseph's (which is perfect given how balanced Valpo could be offensively next year), and is a solid 3 point shooter. I do think I would pump the brakes a bit on Gordon's ability to fill it up at the college level until you see him in action next year. He barely played at Seton Hall, and rarely shot it.
As for Fazekas, you certainly hope that he can remain healthy for a full season, but some guys are just snake-bitten when it comes to illnesses/injuries, and it seems like Ryan has been plagued by that for the 4 years he's been in college basketball.
Clay, again, I would just hold off judgement until you see him in action next year. Given that Valpo currently has Robinson, Golder and Fazekas all primed to play on the wing next year, I think Clay is probably a year away from making any offensive impact, barring transfers or injuries. He could be impactful on the defensive end though, which is a good way (as Freeman and Sackey showed) for him to be impactful without asking the world of him.
While this year didn't wind up how you would hope, there is a lot of theoretical flexibility with positions in the lineup next year. Really the only spot where the team might be a bit thin going into next year is at point guard, as Sackey is really the only guy coming back who has shown the ability to play the role of distributor at the college level.
What would Derrik hope to gain by transferring? He doesn't fit the definition of a mid-major star looking to move up to validate his abilities. Nor is he a bench rider looking to go where he can play a more active role before his playing career ends. That's not to say that high majors won't try to sell him a bill of goods. A lot of programs could be interested in rounding out next year's roster with a once-and-done 7' role player.
What would Derrik hope to gain by transferring? He doesn't fit the definition of a mid-major star looking to move up to validate his abilities. Nor is he a bench rider looking to go where he can play a more active role before his playing career ends. That's not to say that high majors won't try to sell him a bill of goods. A lot of programs could be interested in rounding out next year's roster with a once-and-done 7' back-up center.
If it's a back injury though those can be really tricky and you want to avoid surgery on the back at all costs. If he was having MRIs done it might be a slipped disc and the idea was to give him as much time to heal as possible.
Quote from: wh on March 09, 2019, 08:53:47 AMWhat would Derrik hope to gain by transferring? He doesn't fit the definition of a mid-major star looking to move up to validate his abilities. Nor is he a bench rider looking to go where he can play a more active role before his playing career ends. That's not to say that high majors won't try to sell him a bill of goods. A lot of programs could be interested in rounding out next year's roster with a once-and-done 7' role player.
Tend to agree here. Unless he found a coach he was absolutely certain (in his eyes) could help him improve and keep the playing time he'd get at Valpo. If he were to go to a P5 conference, I think he gets eaten alive and would serve him no purpose whatsoever. However we are not he and he may have other thoughts. I think he can certainly help Valpo next season although I do agree that he sometimes grinds things to a halt offensively and needs to improve defensively.
Overall I think the team will be deeper next season which will eliminate the need for Kiser types to play any significant minutes (or at least should). Freeman is the player I worry about transferring at some point. He has a chance to be a very very good player. If he goes, the program will be set back significantly. I think the program can survive if any other player leaves.
QuoteWhat would Derrik hope to gain by transferring?
The experience of playing basketball in a major conference? The opportunity to attend a large school? Better weather? There are tons of reasons why you might want to leave Valpo.
Look at Richie Edwards, who transferred to ASU from Valpo when he had one year of eligibility left.
You stick at Valpo if you think there's a chance the team can be special. You leave if you think Valpo is going nowhere. That's why I said that Smits is a barometer of where this program is at.
In a way, the student section is also a good indicator. We wonder why hardly any students attend the games. Maybe living on campus, they have a better viewpoint of where the program is at...
Quote from: mj on March 09, 2019, 11:33:56 AMQuoteWhat would Derrik hope to gain by transferring?
The experience of playing basketball in a major conference?
It would be the "playing" that could be the issue.
Quote from: mj on March 09, 2019, 11:33:56 AM
You stick at Valpo if you think there's a chance the team can be special. You leave if you think Valpo is going nowhere. That's why I said that Smits is a barometer of where this program is at.
Players will stay/leave for various reasons. Players who have no shot at meaningful playing time due to all the studs becoming eligible next year will either leave for greener pastures or stay around to enjoy what should be one of the best seasons in Valpo history, even if they are watching it from the bench.
Can't stop thinking about the potential transfers we might see this offseason and wondering how the staff might go about filling these scholarships.
Does anyone else think we could use another experienced PG if Micah does end up transferring at some point. Micah might end up staying because there is a glaring need for a true floor general after Lavender's graduation. I'm not sure Sackey is ready to be the primary PG. He has a lot of work to put in this offseason. He needs to play more controlled this season. I loved his defensive tenacity this season but he needs to improve on offense like his shooting and free throw shooting badly, particularly because his athleticism is going to get him to the FT line a lot the next 3 seasons.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 10, 2019, 11:04:00 PM
Can't stop thinking about the potential transfers we might see this offseason and wondering how the staff might go about filling these scholarships.
Does anyone else think we could use another experienced PG if Micah does end up transferring at some point. Micah might end up staying because there is a glaring need for a true floor general after Lavender's graduation. I'm not sure Sackey is ready to be the primary PG. He has a lot of work to put in this offseason. He needs to play more controlled this season. I loved his defensive tenacity this season but he needs to improve on offense like his shooting and free throw shooting badly, particularly because his athleticism is going to get him to the FT line a lot the next 3 seasons.
Might Javon play more on the point or is Eron going to be the primary point? He was listed as Seton's backup point. My guess is they are trying to find a shooter or another big so Ryan can play more three rather than the four.
I sure hope we are looking for a shooter(s)!
The MVC message board doesn't believe in the Valpo roster for next year and suggest the transfer bug may hit us.
With that said, it's not only our fan base that see's the luckluster ability of the coach.
Nobody understands the inside like an insider. The team should have a near perfect understanding of what Robinson and Gordon can or can not deliver. They should be able to gauge their playing time potentials with reasonable accuracy. They should also have a good understanding of how well the Lottich offense might function with a full roster of healthy players.
So lets watch the transfers. Departures by McMillan or Bradford might signify nothing. Anybody else going and I'll start to sweat. Two from this group looks like a vote of no confidence. A stampede for the exits looks like a coaching change waiting to happen.
If I were Micha I'd look at the Div2 teams in the nine states that have legalized weed 8-) He wouldn't have to put up with the Valpo POlice and their strong armed tactics :thumbsup:
Quote from: justducky on March 11, 2019, 11:22:36 AM
Nobody understands the inside like an insider. The team should have a near perfect understanding of what Robinson and Gordon can or can not deliver. They should be able to gauge their playing time potentials with reasonable accuracy. They should also have a good understanding of how well the Lottich offense might function with a full roster of healthy players.
So lets watch the transfers. Departures by McMillan or Bradford might signify nothing. Anybody else going and I'll start to sweat. Two from this group looks like a vote of no confidence. A stampede for the exits looks like a coaching change waiting to happen.
I don't think McMillan will transfer and I hope he doesn't. I still believe in him and his abilities. It's been a slow process but there are some improvements in his game. I know we all sound like a broken record but he needs to learn not to foul. He has these glimpses of brilliance but he just puts himself in foul trouble and other teams know this and can exploited that at times.
After giving it some thought, my hope is that nobody transfers. Despite some tough times this year, I never got the sense that any players were unhappy. I assume the team realizes the tremendous opportunity they have for a special season in '19-'20 and hope they all want to stay and be a part of it.
On a side note, if everyone stays, the only "new" player next year will be the incoming freshman. I'm looking forward to a season free from excuses (explanations?) involving mentions of "new players" and "young team". I can dream, right?
Quote from: EddieCabot on March 12, 2019, 07:35:30 AMOn a side note, if everyone stays, the only "new" player next year will be the incoming freshman. I'm looking forward to a season free from excuses (explanations?) involving mentions of "new players" and "young team". I can dream, right?
There is always injuries such as Fazekas ankle or a new injury for Ryan or the laundry still needs to be done. It will be interesting to see if Lottich ever comes around to pointing the finger at himself.
I am just glad Valpo is not this team (See attachment -- I hope the file attached).
I mean look at that brutal 11 game stretch. A bunch of bad losses and only 2 narrow victories against crap teams where they trailed good portions of the game. That team needs to move on from that coach and players need to transfer because there is no way a team like that is ever going to make the NCAA tournament.
(Yes....The sarcasm is THICK in this post)
For the past 2 seasons, Matt has changed starting lineups and rotations from the first game to the last. Obviously, some of it was due to ongoing injuries, but not all. For example, Bakari and Deion went from starters to back ups, then back to starters just before the tournament. Daniel's role changed when theirs changed. Mileek went from starter to backup to out of the rotation. Derrik and Jay switched frequently. Even Kiser was inserted in the starting lineup occasionally to shake things up. With only 1 new player we should be able to get the starting lineup right before the first exhibit game and hit the ground running. Even if we have injuries along the way , we shouldn't have to go back to the drawing board and start from scratch. Establish some givens right up front. #1. Bakari is too wildly inconsistent to ever be counted on as a starter. It Derrik's indifferent attitude toward playing defense improves during the off-season, start him every game because overall he is more skilled than Jay. If it doesn't, never start him. If he doesn't get it as a 5th year senior, he never will.
Good programs simply do not have this level of game to game chaos all season long.
Quote from: wh on March 12, 2019, 12:45:07 PM
For the past 2 seasons, Matt has changed starting lineups and rotations from the first game to the last. Obviously, some of it was due to ongoing injuries, but not all. For example, Bakari and Deion went from starters to back ups, then back to starters just before the tournament. Daniel's role changed when theirs changed. Mileek went from starter to backup to out of the rotation. Derrik and Jay switched frequently. Even Kiser was inserted in the starting lineup occasionally to shake things up. With only 1 new player we should be able to get the starting lineup right before the first exhibit game and hit the ground running. Even if we have injuries along the way , we shouldn't have to go back to the drawing board and start from scratch. Establish some givens right up front. #1. Bakari is too wildly inconsistent to ever be counted on as a starter. It Derrik's indifferent attitude toward playing defense improves during the off-season, start him every game because overall he is more skilled than Jay. If it doesn't, never start him. If he doesn't get it as a 5th year senior, he never will.
Good programs simply do not have this level of game to game chaos all season long.
Starting five:
Gordon at the point
Javon at the 2
Smits/Jay at the 5
Ryan at the 4
Robinson at the 3
Second five:
Daniel at the point
Bakari at the 2
Smits/Jay at the 5
Kiser/Mileek at the 4
Golder at the 3
Wild cards? Micah and Clay.. If Micah comes back and find himself again, he is a very good point who can make a 3.Can he defend? Clay is a long, very solid defender who also can drive the lane. Who knows how his game will react to D1. That 13 guys who can play roles and/or be leaders.Who steps their game up and who will end up at the end of the bench? If we collapse only one person can be blamed.
If Daniel doesn't handle the ball any better or shoot any better than he did this year, he should be our third option at the point.
Quote from: vu72 on March 12, 2019, 01:29:45 PM
Quote from: wh on March 12, 2019, 12:45:07 PM
For the past 2 seasons, Matt has changed starting lineups and rotations from the first game to the last. Obviously, some of it was due to ongoing injuries, but not all. For example, Bakari and Deion went from starters to back ups, then back to starters just before the tournament. Daniel's role changed when theirs changed. Mileek went from starter to backup to out of the rotation. Derrik and Jay switched frequently. Even Kiser was inserted in the starting lineup occasionally to shake things up. With only 1 new player we should be able to get the starting lineup right before the first exhibit game and hit the ground running. Even if we have injuries along the way , we shouldn't have to go back to the drawing board and start from scratch. Establish some givens right up front. #1. Bakari is too wildly inconsistent to ever be counted on as a starter. It Derrik's indifferent attitude toward playing defense improves during the off-season, start him every game because overall he is more skilled than Jay. If it doesn't, never start him. If he doesn't get it as a 5th year senior, he never will.
Good programs simply do not have this level of game to game chaos all season long.
Starting five:
Gordon at the point
Javon at the 2
Smits/Jay at the 5
Ryan at the 4
Robinson at the 3
Second five:
Daniel at the point
Bakari at the 2
Smits/Jay at the 5
Kiser/Mileek at the 4
Golder at the 3
Wild cards? Micah and Clay.. If Micah comes back and find himself again, he is a very good point who can make a 3.Can he defend? Clay is a long, very solid defender who also can drive the lane. Who knows how his game will react to D1. That 13 guys who can play roles and/or be leaders.Who steps their game up and who will end up at the end of the bench? If we collapse only one person can be blamed.
Lots of quality pieces, but that roster still appears to be lacking outside threats. Valpo shot 31% from three this year, good for 309th "best" in DI. Gordon, Robinson, Freeman, Bradford and Sackey are perimeter players who have career 3P% of under 30%. Fazekas was great this year when healthy, but he's going to need some help next season.
Pure inference here but Daniel strikes me as the kind of guy who IS going to work on his flaws. How much he can improve upon them is to be determined. But, his progress won't be halted by a lack of effort to try and get better.
The fact of the matter is that it'll be a good thing if these are the sorts of conversations we're having at the beginning of next season as well as during the season. That would mean guys are competing for playing time and in turn making one another (and themselves) better. That's a win for all of us.
Quote from: EddieCabot on March 12, 2019, 02:58:01 PMLots of quality pieces, but that roster still appears to be lacking outside threats. Valpo shot 31% from three this year, good for 309th "best" in DI. Gordon, Robinson, Freeman, Bradford and Sackey are perimeter players who have career 3P% of under 30%. Fazekas was great this year when healthy, but he's going to need some help next season.
Looking at roster balance we don't need another guard unless one leaves, but we do need better guard production. If one transfers then yes we already know what we need.
As for our point guard rotation I would expect Robinson to play 5 to 10 minutes of point no mater who starts. He did some of that at St Joseph so this will give us a point Hammink situational changeup look. This should allow us to match up better with our stronger OOC foes.
It sounds like Lottich doesn't expect any transfers but I wouldn't expect him to say otherwise publicly.
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1105527389931614209
Remember that we've been blindsided before (Linssen Skara)
He also didn't say "no movement" he said "a lot of movement". He's not gonna bite on questions that ask him about who they have their eye on without an actual announced transfer. It would be disrespectful to the team members. But, my guess is he knows enough to know that with multiple grad transfer options and just the nature of basketball some might come.
Reading Paul's tweets with Lottich does not leave me with a comfortable feeling...
Osipoff's tweets seem to include some things Paul's didn't.
Specifically that they want to look into strength and conditioning regarding ankles.
I also got the vibe that at least in his perspective, he sees a difference between this year's team and last year's team, as well as in this team before xmas and after, in regards to attitude and skill level,which can be why he seems to focus on the injuries. Also, he seems to also notice they need to work better as a team.
He also seems to be working to not let sky high expectations surround the two transfers, I wonder if he recognized that was an issue with both Bakari and Fazekas
Quote from: EddieCabot on March 12, 2019, 02:58:01 PMGordon, Robinson, Freeman, Bradford and Sackey are perimeter players who have career 3P% of under 30%.
I thought I could get Eddie on this one but no. :'( Robinson shot .348 from 3 during 17-18 (16 of 46) but he was only 10 for 44 and .227 as a freshman. :'(
So we still won't be able to shoot and still won't be able to run... Super... At least those sample sizes are small and Robinson is trending the right way...
Quote from: justducky on March 12, 2019, 05:12:06 PM
Quote from: EddieCabot on March 12, 2019, 02:58:01 PMGordon, Robinson, Freeman, Bradford and Sackey are perimeter players who have career 3P% of under 30%.
I thought I could get Eddie on this one but no. :'( Robinson shot .348 from 3 during 17-18 (16 of 46) but he was only 10 for 44 and .227 as a freshman. :'(
I may be old, but I do have access to Al Gore's World Wide Web. I logged onto Netscape and used WebCrawler to find a Usenet group with current stats. Infallable!
Quote from: Valpo Joe on March 11, 2019, 10:07:55 PM
If I were Micha I'd look at the Div2 teams in the nine states that have legalized weed 8-) He wouldn't have to put up with the Valpo POlice and their strong armed tactics :thumbsup:
I predict that Micah will be gone.
Quote from: valpospartan on March 13, 2019, 10:42:22 PM
Quote from: Valpo Joe on March 11, 2019, 10:07:55 PM
If I were Micha I'd look at the Div2 teams in the nine states that have legalized weed 8-) He wouldn't have to put up with the Valpo POlice and their strong armed tactics :thumbsup:
I predict that Micah will be gone.
I do think the coaches are anticipating a surprise transfer simply because they happen often and they will be concentrating on getting a guard with the shooting ability of Fazekas or better.
I actually hope we have at least 1 transfer. Look at some of the sharp shooters Drake was able to score on short notice.
Grab a JUCO sharp shooter.
Agree, Sanity.
Grabbing a defender, a rebounder, and a free-throw shooter might be nice too.
Quote from: 4throwfan on March 15, 2019, 10:41:31 AM
Grabbing a defender, a rebounder, and a free-throw shooter might be nice too.
Does anybody get recruited for only their FT shooting or were you saying to recruit a player with all those qualities?
bbts, you're giving me too much credit. I didn't give it that much thought. I was simply ranting.
However, that being said, to clarify my mindless rant, I don't think simply getting another shooter will solve the problems. I think they're more widespread.
Smits leaving, per his AAU coach.
The exodus begins......
I actually think Jay could thrive as the primary big man. We'll lose some inside scoring of course but I won't miss watching guards run around Derrik for a rebound.
I also don't hold this transfer against Lottich as D was one of the last true Bryce recruits on the roster.
https://twitter.com/JWReamer/status/1107671245649334274
Welp not really surprised but I'm really going to miss watching him complain after every foul and brick free throws
Not sad at all. Good luck to him. This could really open up the offense now.
Earlier this month I said that Smits is the canary in the coal mine for this program. Where he eventually ends up will tell us even more about the state of this program.
Also worth noting that we've now lost our top 2 rebounders from last year.
Chris Ensminger couldn't do anything his first year. He had two left feet and was a huge project. But he developed into a very good big.
His senior numbers:
Chris Ensminger SR C 6-11 13.8 Pts, 11.5 Reb, 1.5 Ast
Smits improved scoring in his last year but he didn't come close to Ensminger in rebounds or assists.
I don't think we are going to notice him not being there next year. I don't see him leaving as any knock against the coaches or the program at VU. Lets fill his spot with a shooter or a decently athletic big who likes rebounding/defending.
Quote from: mj on March 18, 2019, 11:58:58 AM
Earlier this month I said that Smits is the canary in the coal mine for this program. Where he eventually ends up will tell us even more about the state of this program.
Also worth noting that we've now lost our top 2 rebounders from last year.
Those two players also averaged 20 points per game (30% of the team's scoring) on what seemed to be an already anemic offense. I got to know Derrik away from the ARC and in my experiences found him to be a good citizen of the university, although I expected the transfer, which I think is the best thing for him. I am admittedly biased, but I will miss him next semester on and off the court. I will follow him wherever he goes and wish him well!
His best bet is a similarly sized school with a huge need at center. He won't sniff the NBA but could play for 10 years in Europe if he stays healthy.
I know it puts me in the minority on the board, but I'm disappointed to see Derrik go and think his post scoring will be difficult to replace. I wish him the best at his next stop, wherever that might be.
I do think that the reality is that with 2 7 footers who had alternative strengths one of them leaving for the last year was inevitable if only so they can go somewhere where they could be the definitive starter and get even more solid minutes and time on the court.
He is going to be a hot commodity on the transfer market.
This is some very unfortunate news.
https://twitter.com/michaelosipoff/status/1107690198861783042?s=21
I would assume that zone leaning coaches might show the greatest interest.
The only way I would really get angry is if he suddenly develops into a great defender. :o
The fact that Derrik led the team in scoring says more about the rest of the team's ability to score than it does about him. He had become more of a threat on the offensive end, but he had not proven himself as a total player.
Already two years ago it was apparent that whichever seven footer expected to see less time as a senior would be expected to transfer. As it turned out, neither was dominant, and, evidently, Derrik figured that playing time would be shared again.
It would be great if we could get a legitimate backup at center. Mileek had moments when he looked competent this year, but those were moments when he was playing the four. As a center, he struggled. Perhaps this frees Matt up to implement a different looking offense.
Oh please find a good shooting small ball center that doesn't foul every 40 seconds...
We still have the one outstanding offer to 6'10" David Skogman. He has a ton of offers but has not committed yet. Hope we double down on our recruitment of him.
Wish him the best of luck.
Some of his scoring will be missed. Inconsistency in scoring and other lapses won't be missed.
So long as departures doesn't turn epidemic, this could have a silver lining for 2020-2021. Since there was a scheduled massive turnover after next year, this could allow for another recruit or JUCO transfer that could give some consistency after next year's departures. If VU gets a one-and-done grad-transfer replacement, then this benefit is lost. I don't see the coaches doing that.
Quote from: VUBBFan on March 18, 2019, 01:26:21 PM
We still have the one outstanding offer to 6'10" David Skogman. He has a ton of offers but has not committed yet. Hope we double down on our recruitment of him.
This could open up things for him. He now would be competing with a senior and couyld beat him out and be a 4 year starter.
With Derrick's transfer, I am feeling better about getting a good young big man for next year, hopefully from the current graduating class and not a graduate transfer I believe the "silver lining" comment is right on the money. Hopefully this will add to some continuity to the offense next year.
I think it shows that the 1 year sitting after transferring rule should not be changed because if you don't have to sit out a year a player is much, much more likely to transfer and suddenly the NCAA would probably have 25% more transfers than they already do now.
I would rather you can transfer only once without penalty. You get one lateral or upward to DI transfer without having to sit. After that you can transfer but lose a year of eligibility. I think that keeps some power with the student athlete without hanging the schools out to dry completely.
Not surprised by the transfer. He seemed to be positioning himself to be available to transfer at the end of this season, and with the split playing time and his clear desires to move to the next level after college, it was bound to happen. He made some big strides this year. Hopefully for him, he can transfer to a program that can do a better job of developing bigs. My uneducated guess is that he will want to move up to a larger program. May not be the best move for him but can't fault him for that desire, especially if he has pro aspirations.
I'd guess we will still see 1-2 more transfers, and despite that I would not take that as an indication of the programs direction but rather just a sign of the times in college basketball. Hopefully the rest of the core team sticks together though.
Lol@ Smits declaring for the draft. Can't shoot threes Can't rebound Can't defend What a joke. He'll play in Europe maybe even at an upper division but the NBA?Pffft He's wasting his time and that of anyone who takes time to evaluate him.
1. I wonder what smits's reasonings for transferring was. Is it coaching? Playing time? Want something different?
We can only speculate which is not good.
2. I'm not happy or upset that he is transferring. However if he goes somewhere and doesn't get playing time, then I will be pissed because we have a lot coming back are "supposed" to be be good.
3. If others transfer I think that answers my 1st question.
4. Most importantly. If 4-5 transfer then does Lottich even get a 4th year opportunity?
I'd like to know No. 1 as well.
Seems that if the program were humming on all cylinders, then he wouldn't transfer. The last time that VU had a lot of seniors coming in (Broekhoff, Buggs, Bogan, Boggs, Kenney, etc.) there wasn't even a hint of transfers. I think that group felt that they were NCAA bound going into their final year, which turned out to be a pretty good prediction. If Smits is transferring, then I don't think he has that same prediction. A mid-major team with a lot of seniors can't afford to lose their leading scorer. That's not an indication of humming on all cylinders.
So Paul's article says Derrik wants to "hopefully play better competition."
My first reaction was "Like the fire. Can't blame him."
But then thinking a bit, Derrik was overall a B-/C+ player in the MVC, constantly getting bullied on the defensive end by guys 4-6 inches shorter than him. Does he think playing at a higher level will be better. If someone like Illinois gives him a shot does he really think playing one end of the floor will fly at a P5 school?
At the end of the day it's his career and he should do what he feels is best for him. And in his shoes I would likely do the same. If he wants to play in the pros he needs to go somewhere where he's not in a timeshare. But he's be better off going to somewhere like Northern Kentucky where there's a big hole with McDonald graduating.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 18, 2019, 04:20:29 PM
Lol@ Smits declaring for the draft. Can't shoot threes Can't rebound Can't defend What a joke. He'll play in Europe maybe even at an upper division but the NBA?Pffft He's wasting his time and that of anyone who takes time to evaluate him.
What he is actually doing is taking advantage of the current system. Anything he picks up along the way can't hurt. Then he returns to college. I agree he will not play in the NBA.
He could be a good get for Europe especially if he doesn't count as a US player. Not exactly sure how that works .
Quote from: VUBBFan on March 18, 2019, 01:26:21 PM
We still have the one outstanding offer to 6'10" David Skogman. He has a ton of offers but has not committed yet. Hope we double down on our recruitment of him.
I wouldn't get your hopes up.
So is this just Smits or is this the beginning of a mass Exodus. Is anyone else grad transfer eligible?
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 18, 2019, 05:00:18 PM
So Paul's article says Derrik wants to "hopefully play better competition."
Wow, it's not like he made 1st or 2nd team all-MVC. Good luck.
Quote from: M on March 18, 2019, 12:11:38 PM
I don't think we are going to notice him not being there next year. I don't see him leaving as any knock against the coaches or the program at VU. Lets fill his spot with a shooter or a decently athletic big who likes rebounding/defending.
This is also my belief.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 18, 2019, 05:26:04 PM
So is this just Smits or is this the beginning of a mass Exodus. Is anyone else grad transfer eligible?
Grad-Transfer Elgible:
-Micah Bradford
-Bakari Evelyn
-Markus Golder
Not sure if Jay Sorolla is elgible or not. I doubt with a engineering course load that Kiser is and I doubt he'd transfer anyways. Not sure about Ryan Fazekas' status but I don't think he's a likely transfer either.
I feel confident Golder will stay. Not sure about Bakari. Micah Bradford is a mystery but he's maybe the most speculated about potential transfer in VU recent history. I feel good about Jay staying, but I know nothing.
Wish him well. As I've said before, I don't blame kids for transferring. They only get one shot at this whole college thing. Paul seems pretty convinced Micah will transfer. I hope he does transfer, honestly. But, idk that he'd get a lot of looks if his medical health is up in the air with his back. Then again, I'm sure he could show xrays that could show he's fully recovered if that's the case.
I don't feel comfortable having Sarolla be our main center. Then again, maybe we will shift our playing style and he'll be a non-factor. 2 7-footers hasn't been an advantage thus far anyhow.
"Wow, it's not like he made 1st or 2nd team all-MVC."
Or 1st team all-Valpo, once the season was on the line.
Not sure why people are okay with Smits leaving...I feel like there nights he was our best player. Averaged the most points. Was he inconsistent? Sure. But, we need someone to put the ball in the hoop and he was getting pretty good at that this year.
I would agree that he isnt going to go anywhere "major;" he could very well end up on the bench somewhere. But that's his decision to make. Curious to see who else, if anyone, is going to be following him out. Nucleus of a healthy fazekas, Freeman, sackey, and golder with sorolla providing the def is still a pretty solid foundation.
I don't think losing Smits will be a catastrophic blow to next season but I don't think we'll be better for it either. Losing an experienced 7 footer doesn't make us better.
I think the offense will be more efficient at times though. When Smits was on the court he had to have the ball in iso scenario to make him a net benefit on the court. When we were injured and inefficient on offense at times he was a safety net when we had nothing else going for us.
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1107772537281413120
Doesn't have immediate eligibility but the type of guy I'd like to see us go after. A sharp shooter with size (6-5).
https://twitter.com/boettger_eli/status/1107856899116916737
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 18, 2019, 05:00:18 PM
So Paul's article says Derrik wants to "hopefully play better competition."
My first reaction was "Like the fire. Can't blame him."
But then thinking a bit, Derrik was overall a B-/C+ player in the MVC, constantly getting bullied on the defensive end by guys 4-6 inches shorter than him. Does he think playing at a higher level will be better. If someone like Illinois gives him a shot does he really think playing one end of the floor will fly at a P5 school?
At the end of the day it's his career and he should do what he feels is best for him. And in his shoes I would likely do the same. If he wants to play in the pros he needs to go somewhere where he's not in a timeshare. But he's be better off going to somewhere like Northern Kentucky where there's a big hole with McDonald graduating.
Not really, NKU has a 7 footer in Vogt (7' 1"). He already fills the position that Derrik would take and he would be splitting time again. Actually in my view Vogt is already better than Derrik
on defense but maybe, only maybe better on offense next season and Vogt is going to be a junior. They also have Adheke at 6' 10" who is much better athletically.
It looks like Smits is the first of several to go. At least those who stay will have a good time in Costa Rica this Summer. Derrik is a top notch human being and I wish him well.
Quote from: valpo tundra on March 19, 2019, 02:02:57 AM
It looks like Smits is the first of several to go. At least those who stay will have a good time in Costa Rica this Summer. Derrik is a top notch human being and I wish him well.
With individual meetings wrapping up, I would guess we'll hear names by the end of the week.
If there's a mass Exodus coming of key contributors Lottich needs to follow them out the door. This is the year we were supposed to be good and it's being derailed before it even begins.
Yes, but we suspected this.....
Quote from: valpo tundra on March 19, 2019, 02:02:57 AMAt least those who stay will have a good time in Costa Rica this Summer.
What is that suppose to mean? Did I miss something?
If we lose any combo of Bakari, Micah, or Mileek I'll be less worried than if we also lose Jay, or either of our freshman, or Golder.
From Golder's twitter posts, it seems that he is looking forward to returning.
https://twitter.com/EvanDaniels/status/1108080901148151808?s=19
Next season is already over.
Quote from: jloose128 on March 19, 2019, 02:28:09 PMhttps://twitter.com/EvanDaniels/status/1108080901148151808?s=19 Next season is already over.
Smits I saw, this I didn't... huge blow. But again, I can't fault him for it. He showed he had elite talent this year. Hard to stay at a program that had a down year when you know you will have bigger teams courting you.
This one hurts. Hopefully they can fill the spots with some shooters and guys that can move the ball. JFL was never that program changing recruit, so hoping we find a diamond in the rough with these open scholarships.
Bakari gone as well.
Curious to know - those of you who believe in Matt Lottich, has the spate of transfers changed your mind? Or does he deserve more time to prove he can build a program? Let's remember that Lottich's take was that there would be very little movement.
I don't think I'm alone when I say that, since we've now lost Smits, Evelyn and Freeman, we might as well blow it up now and start a real coaching search.
The next 4-6 years could really, really suck. Might as well suck in the pursuit of rebuilding the program instead of drowning with what we have in place now.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 19, 2019, 03:07:02 PM
Bakari gone as well.
This one is actually good news in what's going to be a rebuilding year.
Where the heck is Bakari going?, I sure didn't see JFL leaving but we are replacing one first team Illinois all stater with a bigger version. Perhaps Gordon and Robinson are that good that Bakari saw his playing time down the drain. Welcome to this version of college basketball. It isn't Matt's fault, it is the AAU coaches constantly in the ear of these kids. It started with Skara. We just might be surprised by who fills these slots.
The AAU coaches have been a part of this game for 30 years. Part of being a coach is managing this. This is completely on Matt.
Seems from Twitter that Micah will be graduating in May. Was that widely known?
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 19, 2019, 08:37:37 AM
If there's a mass Exodus coming of key contributors Lottich needs to follow them out the door. This is the year we were supposed to be good and it's being derailed before it even begins.
I'm done.
Somebody let me know when I should start bringing in the recking balls and leveling the ARC. I want to make sure that everybody is safely transferred out so they don't get hit with falling debris.
I'd bet a pretty penny that a bigger program or three got into JFL's ear.
Bakari and Smits aren't huge losses. JFL had his flaws but I was hoping he'd be a staple. Not sure the exodus is over.
Honestly it doesn't matter how good players are if you're losing 3-4-5 guys this offseason that's a bad look for your program.
Looks like he'll be alright to play next year. We may need him if he doesn't transfer too.
https://twitter.com/barrybradford3/status/1108063185909805056
Quote from: VUBBFan on March 19, 2019, 04:19:47 PM
Looks like he'll be alright to play next year. We may need him if he doesn't transfer too.
https://twitter.com/barrybradford3/status/1108063185909805056
One of the twitter responses mentions transferring, but it could just be a misunderstanding on that guy's part. FWIW, Oren said on his podcast yesterday that he expected Micah to be leaving.
Been hearing from reliable people since January that Micah is as good as gone.
Quote from: M on March 19, 2019, 03:50:13 PM
I'd bet a pretty penny that a bigger program or three got into JFL's ear.
Bakari and Smits aren't huge losses. JFL had his flaws but I was hoping he'd be a staple. Not sure the exodus is over.
Honestly it doesn't matter how good players are if you're losing 3-4-5 guys this offseason that's a bad look for your program.
Totally agree, but, it happens and the guys out on the ledge are overreacting. Look at Drake (and here it comes: "sure, but they have a GREAT coach")(lost four starters and three out-bound transfers AND, their head coach) Then they lose their 4 star point guard. I think they were down to two guys coming back and ended up tied for 1st. Now we will find out about the staff's ability to recruit in bunches!
Lottich if he stays will recruit great talent... Then blow every close game imagineable. He needs to go. No defense no excuses End of story.
At least someone new will be jacking up the last second dumba$$ 3s at the end of halves from now on.
A lot of us here don't see it in Lottich. Several fans from other schools think he is bad too. But what's more telling for you believers out there is his very own team doesn't see it.
JFL should go to a team like Wisconsin. He plays their type of ball and will shine in their system.
Smits will have lots of teams asking for his services. Teams are always looking for size that can score.
Not sure where Bakari will end up. Might struggle to get with the type of team he wants to get with after an injury laden season. But I think a team in need of experience will grab him based on his sophomore stats.
As for Lottich. Losing JFL looks really bad and seems like it could impact future recruiting of the Chicago suberbs. He came from a well respected AAU team and was from a basketball family. That paints a picture that Valpo is not the place for high level recruits and that is not good.
He probably needs one last year to prove himself.... but transfers or not the pressure is on and if next year is a dud the AD needs to pull the trigger this time next year and have somebody in mind to fill roster spots for Kiser, sorolla, RF, golder. That is a good year to hire a new coach if need be with 4 scholarships available to immediately go out and get your type of guys.
With the graduation of Lavender plus transfers by Freeman, Smits, and Evelyn, Valpo so far loses 60% of the points, 52% of the rebounds, 65% of the assists, 60% of steals, and 55% of the minutes per game from this year's already weak numbers.
:whiteflag:
I'm hoping Golder doesn't transfer. I know he was tight with Bakari. The one team I'd be worried about him going to would be Utah State because Coach Ragland is out there now and he was super close with Golder. It's also out west. I don't think this program could take another blow.
If Golder were to transfer then you might as well blow it up and hand the keys over to a new Coach at that point to allow him to recruit the future. This of course is assuming the AD didn't believe in Lottich anymore, but I don't even know why I'm bring this up because it will never happen.
This sounds like a advertisement to coaches. It seems like Micah is going to be moving on. Potentially 4 transfers in one offseason. That's a lot of scholarships to fill.
https://twitter.com/barrybradford3/status/1108063185909805056
And you were worried about 2020...
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/1108167681692307456
Quote from: vu72 on March 19, 2019, 04:32:29 PM
Quote from: M on March 19, 2019, 03:50:13 PM
I'd bet a pretty penny that a bigger program or three got into JFL's ear.
Bakari and Smits aren't huge losses. JFL had his flaws but I was hoping he'd be a staple. Not sure the exodus is over.
Honestly it doesn't matter how good players are if you're losing 3-4-5 guys this offseason that's a bad look for your program.
Totally agree, but, it happens and the guys out on the ledge are overreacting. Look at Drake (and here it comes: "sure, but they have a GREAT coach")(lost four starters and three out-bound transfers AND, their head coach) Then they lose their 4 star point guard. I think they were down to two guys coming back and ended up tied for 1st. Now we will find out about the staff's ability to recruit in bunches!
I like vu72's attitude. It's likely that Sorolla+Clay+Robinson+Gordon > Smits+Freeman+Evelyn+Bradford. Now, let's see what ML does with those newly available scholarships!
Some people could poop their pants and find a bright side to it i guess...
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
They say it is always darkest before the dawn. I hope that is true and that Dawn is coming soon because it is feeling pretty gosh darn dark right now. I mean I don't even need to see Lottich fired right now really if they could just announce a plan to get our facilities up to snuff. Just something to give us some hope a silver lining to let us know that everything will be okay. Instead of the cold you get nothing and like it but please keep supporting us attitude that we get. We need to donate to make our dreams come true yes but the school can and should help us out by investing too and giving us a campaign to assist and get excited about. Just something that says we hear you we feel you and we're going to get better. Why is that so much to ask for?
https://www.verbalcommits.com/transfers/Melvin%20Morgan
Here is an updated list of all the transfers, their new school when announced, and whether or not they are immediately eligible.
Good gracious, there are already 200 names on the list. Last year there were a thousand. Yes, Matt is partially to blame but at the same time there is a rot in college basketball and it is really starting to smell.
Quote from: EddieCabot on March 19, 2019, 09:14:32 PMQuote from: vu72 on March 19, 2019, 04:32:29 PMQuote from: M on March 19, 2019, 03:50:13 PMI'd bet a pretty penny that a bigger program or three got into JFL's ear. Bakari and Smits aren't huge losses. JFL had his flaws but I was hoping he'd be a staple. Not sure the exodus is over. Honestly it doesn't matter how good players are if you're losing 3-4-5 guys this offseason that's a bad look for your program.
Totally agree, but, it happens and the guys out on the ledge are overreacting. Look at Drake (and here it comes: "sure, but they have a GREAT coach")(lost four starters and three out-bound transfers AND, their head coach) Then they lose their 4 star point guard. I think they were down to two guys coming back and ended up tied for 1st. Now we will find out about the staff's ability to recruit in bunches!
I like vu72's attitude. It's likely that Sorolla+Clay+Robinson+Gordon > Smits+Freeman+Evelyn+Bradford. Now, let's see what ML does with those newly available scholarships!
Fazekas
Gordon
Robinson
Golder
Sorolla
Sackey 6th
Still sounds like a damn good starting 5 to me pending how Gordon and Robinson pan out. But if I was a betting man, I would say Bakari saw his role decline a bit this year and with those guys coming up next year and he saw the writing on the wall that he was in for a smaller role in a year where he could transfer and find a better fit without having to sit.
Vunny, those names on the paper might be good. But you have to have someone to coach them. Lottich is not a teacher or coach. There is no identity or strategy.
I'm actually happy for those kids who are transferring. All of the current players would look even better than they are given a better system. Or just a system at all....Javon on Drake or Missouri State would have been a all-conference player.
Fazekas - Solid when healthy, can't stay healthy
Gordon - Didn't really play enough to know what we're getting
Robinson - Actually really high on this kid, think he could be a day one star
Golder - He will bounce back next year
Sorolla - Still underdeveloped as a big. Like the potential but unproven as a 30 mpg guy.
Sackey - Major potential. Also a turnover machine who can't shoot.
Quote from: vu72 on March 20, 2019, 08:52:58 AMGood gracious, there are already 200 names on the list. Last year there were a thousand. Yes, Matt is partially to blame but at the same time there is a rot in college basketball and it is really starting to smell.
While this is overreaction central at the moment, what needs to be taken into consideration that the landscape of the game has changed considerably over the last few years particularly for the mid majors who will have a tough time hanging on to their better players when looked at it collectively.
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 20, 2019, 09:48:14 AMVunny, those names on the paper might be good. But you have to have someone to coach them. Lottich is not a teacher or coach. There is no identity or strategy.
I'm actually happy for those kids who are transferring. All of the current players would look even better than they are given a better system. Or just a system at all....Javon on Drake or Missouri State would have been a all-conference player.
If you hate this program so much why don't you support some other team. We don't need this type of support. Do you know anything about this sport or the situations that coaches find themselves in? How many college games have you coached and what "system" did you use? To come on a public forum for this school and team and then tell our players that they would have been better off at other schools is not what I expect when I come on this board to support a school that I love very much. I don't have a problem with constructive criticism, but this is not constructive at all. Instead of coming on here and publicly making our whole program sound like a s :-X t show why don't you call up MLB and tell him what you really think and save your public castration of our program for the MVC forum.
I think the frustration we've had as fans the last two years is now coming out in the transfers. I'm sure the coaching staff is equally frustrated.
Yes, the move to the MVC has been tough. I believe we've had the talent, but have been horribly inconsistent. Is that on the coaches or players, or is it a combination of both. I don't know, and don't have an immediate solution.
Being inconsistent, frustrated, and losing has to enter each of these players minds. To the point that you might ask yourself 'is the grass greener elsewhere'? It is a question that many division 1 basketball athletes ask every spring. And many will transfer.
I could see three from this team transfer, especially with injuries and expected playing time next year. I just didn't see these three making the decision so quickly.
This does seem to be more the norm these days, but we've been lucky at Valpo in the past. Not so this year.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Grab up the trio (I think it was a trio) of Northwestern kids, lol
Quote from: vuny98 on March 20, 2019, 09:24:37 AM
Quote from: EddieCabot on March 19, 2019, 09:14:32 PMQuote from: vu72 on March 19, 2019, 04:32:29 PMQuote from: M on March 19, 2019, 03:50:13 PMI'd bet a pretty penny that a bigger program or three got into JFL's ear. Bakari and Smits aren't huge losses. JFL had his flaws but I was hoping he'd be a staple. Not sure the exodus is over. Honestly it doesn't matter how good players are if you're losing 3-4-5 guys this offseason that's a bad look for your program.
Totally agree, but, it happens and the guys out on the ledge are overreacting. Look at Drake (and here it comes: "sure, but they have a GREAT coach")(lost four starters and three out-bound transfers AND, their head coach) Then they lose their 4 star point guard. I think they were down to two guys coming back and ended up tied for 1st. Now we will find out about the staff's ability to recruit in bunches!
I like vu72's attitude. It's likely that Sorolla+Clay+Robinson+Gordon > Smits+Freeman+Evelyn+Bradford. Now, let's see what ML does with those newly available scholarships!
Fazekas
Gordon
Robinson
Golder
Sorolla
Sackey 6th
Still sounds like a damn good starting 5 to me pending how Gordon and Robinson pan out. But if I was a betting man, I would say Bakari saw his role decline a bit this year and with those guys coming up next year and he saw the writing on the wall that he was in for a smaller role in a year where he could transfer and find a better fit without having to sit.
We are bound to pick up a fifth year senior with all the openings and remember, if we can keep Clay, we MAY have a star in the making. Both Javon and Donovan were First Team All State in Illinois. Donovan is a 6'7" guard/forward who guarded the opponent's best player. How will he fit in? Where will he play? Is he as good as advertised? We were asking the same questions about Javon at this time last year. Before we collectively jump off a bridge, perhaps we should wait until the dust settles and we see who is coming in to add to some serious talent left after all the departed.
What we're seeing is that the Drew family, through force of personality and skill, was able to outcoach a level of complacency and mismanagement in other areas of the athletic dept. and we're paying the price for it now. How many times over the years did you hear some form of "we don't need to spend money on X because we're winning without that" or "we don't need a better facility when we don't sell out every game now" or "the ARC ain't pretty but it's a tough place to play for opponents!"
All those years of letting stuff slide are coming back around now. And spare me the "landscape has changed" stuff. We've known that for several years now. We've known it since P5s spent the entirely of Alec's junior year salivating and openly recruiting him. If Lottich wasn't addressing that reality until the season was over, especially when anyone with a set of eyes could tell you that Freeman would have had much bigger opportunities had he not signed early, then again, that's on our staff, not the "landscape." Players aren't dumb -- they can see when a staff and administration have no plan or commitment.
Rather than asking Valpo fans to swallow another season of certain mediocrity because they are too timid to cut their losses when they should, it'd be nice if they gave us some reason to believe that they get it and will invest in the program like we're in the Valley instead of the old Mid-Con.
Alec Peters appears to have hidden a lot of warts and that is with more than one coaching regime.
Remember this from one week ago? I was concerned at the time about the lack of awareness expressed. How quickly things have changed.
[tweet]1105532815586791428[/tweet]
Valpo pal - funny thing is ... I'm sure Matt 100% still believes it. And, I'm just waiting for posters to get roasted again my Paul on USH lol. He'll continue to defend, justify, etc.
I hope I'm wrong. Don't be an enabler to this nonsense.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on March 20, 2019, 11:27:25 AM
What we're seeing is that the Drew family, through force of personality and skill, was able to outcoach a level of complacency and mismanagement in other areas of the athletic dept. and we're paying the price for it now. How many times over the years did you hear some form of "we don't need to spend money on X because we're winning without that" or "we don't need a better facility when we don't sell out every game now" or "the ARC ain't pretty but it's a tough place to play for opponents!"
All those years of letting stuff slide are coming back around now. And spare me the "landscape has changed" stuff. We've known that for several years now. We've known it since P5s spent the entirely of Alec's junior year salivating and openly recruiting him. If Lottich wasn't addressing that reality until the season was over, especially when anyone with a set of eyes could tell you that Freeman would have had much bigger opportunities had he not signed early, then again, that's on our staff, not the "landscape." Players aren't dumb -- they can see when a staff and administration have no plan or commitment.
Rather than asking Valpo fans to swallow another season of certain mediocrity because they are too timid to cut their losses when they should, it'd be nice if they gave us some reason to believe that they get it and will invest in the program like we're in the Valley instead of the old Mid-Con.
Very appropriate criticisms of the general VU atmosphere towards the MBB program. I can remember having conversations as an Alumni Director with the AD and Homer about moving back down from D1 when Homer was 24-87 after his first 4 years. Then came conversations with Dr. Harre about building the expectations of VU fans in the Mid-Con and his fear that moving to a better conference might be disappointing if the perception was that we were less competitive and did not win the conference and go to the NCAA tournament as often. It appears that this fear has finally been realized with the move to the MVC and the removal of the Drew safety blanket.
To me the blame falls mainly on the Board of Directors and Administrations that have not taken advantage of our successes, and increased visibility, brought mainly to the university by the MBB program. We have been in the MVC for almost 2 years, we knew that upgrades were needed and most likely required, but nothing more than a hint of upgrades has been mentioned by... not a VU admin, but by an MVC staffer. Commitment must be first shown before it can be received. My wife and I have been very excited by the new lab on campus, she was a double major in Biology and Chemistry at VU and is currently the head of the Life Sciences department at a local college. Our personal tour shortly after the building was dedicated also showed the excitement the faculty had for the new programs and possibilities brought about by this new academic space. I agree that academics and student housing are very important, but I also believe that the university needs to invest in its premier brand
which has become MBB.
I was extremely happy and proud of the move to the MVC and my expectations were very high for that first year. I felt Matt had held it together very well in his freshman season with all the commotion surrounding Alec, does he stay or go, Keith Carter not getting the expected 5th year, almost all of us agreed with his firm stance in the David Skara, Don Bosco Prep, Ivan Vujic fiasco. He then had to deal with the Jubril suspension and despite all of that, if Alec remains healthy, he has a very good chance at an NCAA tournament berth and a first season win total similar to Bryce and the previous season. I could go back on the forum and post examples of support for Matt at the start, middle and end of that year. Do I believe he bears responsibility for the current state of the current state of the program? Yes, he bears responsibility for the things he can control.
I believe from experience, that the academic issues with Joe Burton were the first domino starting a cascade that results in where we are today. How did Joe Burton fail academically? We knew that he was a risk and he still failed? This was a situation were we had a player, as Jubril stated in his USH interview, Burton was a basketball freak, a highly rated player that would rarely commit to a program like Valpo's. This was the program that Javon committed to, the program that started (yes I know the schedule was suspect) 8-0 with a healthy Tevonn and Joe finding his way, the program that then imploded when he left and Tevonn probably not fully recovered until we made the late season surge. Burton's departure hung over the program even for this year because (and it really worries me for this year) it is very hard to recruit quality senior players after the first of the year. There was little time to develop relationships that late in the game for 2018 and especially now for 2019, and coming to a school like VU, as we have heard many times from recruits, requires the building of relationships. I believe that the team would have been much better this year if we had remained healthy. Do I like the "system" Matt runs? I don't really know what that means, are we talking offensive and defensive philosophy's... defense is pretty darn good for the most part, I have to admit I am not a huge fan of the 4 out 1 in offense style that IMO can get very stagnant and is an offense that requires good outside shooting or superior 1 on 1 interior play. We had problems with both. I also think Matt might have done better with a more consistent starting group, taking into account the problems with injuries and illness. I am very disappointed with Javon's departure, but not surprised because this is a much different team than the one he committed to and his ceiling has been raised much higher than I think he even expected 18 months ago. Some of that credit goes to Matt, his talent evaluation and his confidence in a freshman player helped give Javon the opportunity for his stellar season. I don't think Matt will be fired, and I am OK with that because program fortunes can change drastically from year to year. I also believe that Sorolla+Clay+Robinson+Gordon > Smits+Freeman+Evelyn, but Matt will have to make it happen next year. Going beyond the coaching staff, the university needs to step up to the plate as quickly as possible and show support for the future of this program with some
announced major facility upgrades showing commitment to the program, especially if it expects commitment from its players and fans.
Which USH episode did Paul roast posters on? Need a laugh in these trying times.
New episode coming shortly. I can assure you there's no roasting of posters. There's a thoughtful look at the entire situation. Lots of questions, fewer answers. I even give you some of my favorite cooking recipes.
Maybe I'm the only one that isn't 100% down on Lottich. Do I think he is a particularly good coach, no. I saw the team play well at times and I saw at times where it looked like they had no clue. A lot of that is on the coach. His attitude at times also has to be questioned. But we are a mid-major program, with poor facilities, lack of administration support and playing in the first 2 years of a MUCH better conference. There have been a ton of injuries and issues in his tenure that he has had to deal with. A better coach may not have had much better results. A first time head coach having to deal with all of that, we should expect it to be bumpy.
And players often disagree with a coach. Everyone on this board crushed Bakari for his poor attitude on the court at times and now he has something negative to say about the coach and we act like he is the voice of reason.
Lottich has brought in some solid recruits. He has yet to have a roster of his guys that is built for the MVC. If he was fired would it be justified, sure. Would I fire him if I were the AD, no, not unless there were something under the surface that we are not aware of. Firing him now could be much much worse than riding it out a bit and hoping he can right the ship. Grass is not always greener.
Amen and well stated, VUNY98.
On a very bright note today, a close look at our transfer Nick Robinson on paper says that this guy is a potential star in the MVC. He did not need to leave another D-1 team to get "playing time." I have not seen him practice.
In the A-10 conference season as a sophomore at St. Joe he averaged 9.5 points and 5.7 rebounds at 6'5." He was 2nd team All-State in Illinois. He sounds like a versatile player who can create some plays and guard a lot of positions.
I don't think the cupboard is bare and as I said on the "Should he lose his job" thread, I don't see the 3 departures as on all on him. Agreed next year needs to prove he can coach though. And show some fire (genuinely) so we know he cares!
I
Crusadermoe, my thoughts exactly. Cupboard isnt bare. Things haven't gone as planned and ML gets the brunt of it, as he should being HC, but a lot of it is outside him. If he lands a grad transfer or two things will be back on the fast track. He needs another year before this conversation is in earnest. I know it's more difficult and detailed than what I'm going to say, but if theres 1,000 transfers now days and roughly 350 d1 programs, that's about 3 per team. That's not counting people declaring for NBA drafts. Just a lot of turnover on teams now days and I'd imagine definitely more towards low/mid major teams, especially ones who have struggled.
I get fan boards are for the diehards and come with wide range of emotions, usually involving the people actually ponying up $$ to support the program,
Valpo has been lucky in recent years not to have the transfer carousel hit. Now that the rules have changed permitting student-athletes to notify they want to transfer, rather than having to ask for permission, many are seeing it as an easier out with less obstacles. This is not all that different than other schools.
Right now, there are over three hundred student-athletes in Division I Basketball who have been added to the NCAA's transfer portal. I can tell you with confidence, that number will sky rocket as teams are knocked out of various post season tournaments. It should not be a shock that Javon has requested to transfer - he has proven to be an incredible player who will more than likely have the chance to play for someplace with more money and better facilities (not to say that that the grass will be greener, but it sure looks it). With each transfer that leaves for greener pastures, others will come Valpo's way after seeing the greenery where they came from isn't all that spectacular.
Give it some time. Doing things above board and within the rules takes time, but I would consider giving Matt and his crew another year.
This may be nothing but Markus Golder's Mom just started following the associate head coach of McNeese State (Southland Conference) on twitter and a coach from Utah State (home to former Valpo assistant David Ragland) is her last twitter follower...
Interesting...
I've always had this thought about Golder and Evelyn that if one of them transferred the other would transfer too. They seem to be close friends. Reallllly hope I'm wrong.
Can we just do a 3-player swap with Northwestern, and they throw in a bag of balls (because based on this Board, they're probably all flat and slick) and a home and home series?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-spt-northwestern-basketball-transfers-20190320-story.html (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-spt-northwestern-basketball-transfers-20190320-story.html)
Quote from: valpo84 on March 21, 2019, 07:57:27 AM
Can we just do a 3-player swap with Northwestern, and they throw in a bag of balls (because based on this Board, they're probably all flat and slick) and a home and home series?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-spt-northwestern-basketball-transfers-20190320-story.html (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-spt-northwestern-basketball-transfers-20190320-story.html)
Interesting. Maybe getting a guy like Chris Collins or Bryce Drew isn't the answer. Maybe playing in a brand new arena isn't the answer. Maybe is comes with the territory of dealing with kids who have been told all along that they are stars and should be treated accordingly. Who knows... ???
I agree that the cupboard is not bare.... Robinson/Gordon/Golder/Sackey/Sorolla/Fazekas/Clay/McMillan/Micah?/
Robinson can be a star, I expect he can shoot the 3..
Sackey will improve his shot because he is that kind of guy that has the will to do so...
Sorolla at the very least is a solid defensive center...More PT might improve his offense.
McMillan will get more PT which will give us a 5 man that can shoot the 3...
If Fazekas is healthy he will hit 45%+ from 3....
Golder was doing really well before that ankle injury and can be explosive and at times can shoot the 3.
Gordon was a stud in high school, but is a question mark based on his work at SH...
If Micah stays and his back fully heals I still think the dude can ball. Might have thought about transferring but might stay now knowing playing time will be available...
Clay seems like a solid recruit...
AND we now have 3 scholarships to help fill the holes. Get a big guy, and a few 3 point shooters. Hope at least 2 of them have immediate eligibility.
I am not saying we are going to be GREAT but I think that team could be pretty good. Lottich and the staff have things they need to fix. Each player has things they need to work on... If everyone does their homework we could be a solid team.
Quote from: truth219 on March 19, 2019, 09:27:44 PM
Some people could poop their pants and find a bright side to it i guess...
If you were constipated, then yes. :-)
Somebody take down the 1 next to "Days without a transfer".
Paul Oren
Verified account
@NWIOren
Follow Follow @NWIOren
More
Valparaiso's Markus Golder tells @NWI that he is "exploring a grad transfer." Golder added he wouldn't be making any additional comments at this time. #MVCHoops
11:49 AM - 21 Mar 2019
I checked out the list of transfers this morning and the only other MVC team with transfers is Indiana State. And they have one.
I get that the new transfer rules make life hard for mid-majors, but there doesn't seem to be the same type of exodus at other MVC schools.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 20, 2019, 09:35:12 PM
This may be nothing but Markus Golder's Mom just started following the associate head coach of McNeese State (Southland Conference) on twitter and a coach from Utah State (home to former Valpo assistant David Ragland) is her last twitter follower...
Interesting...
Well...
https://twitter.com/nwioren/status/1108772660908044288?s=21
You can be fair to Coach Lottich and the staff in certain aspects but this looks awful and reflects poorly on them.
There could be something deeper and at work and the authority figures at the University and Athletics Dept need to evaluate the root cause.
Not looking good.
https://twitter.com/AlBillets/status/1108787827259641859
Wooowww, and we are what? 1-2 weeks into the off season? Who's next?
So we're just going to send Lottich back out on the recruiting trial to get the next wave of guys who will bail.
Hard pass. Time to hit the reset button.
And is Sorolla next?
That is a legit and reasonable question
I would think Jay wouldn't transfer, just go back home and go pro.
The rift that Evelyn mentioned continues to intrigue me.
https://twitter.com/AlBillets/status/1108801368289173504
Quote from: humbleopinion on March 21, 2019, 12:10:54 PM
Paul Oren
Verified account
@NWIOren
Follow Follow @NWIOren
More
Valparaiso's Markus Golder tells @NWI that he is "exploring a grad transfer." Golder added he wouldn't be making any additional comments at this time. #MVCHoops
11:49 AM - 21 Mar 2019
No confidence in coach. Some still are in denial. Some would support Lottich if the entire team bolted. smdh
Quote from: humbleopinion on March 21, 2019, 01:43:32 PM
The rift that Evelyn mentioned continues to intrigue me.
I've been wondering about this as well. He mentioned something about the injuries causing a rift because certain guys were forced to play out of position? I'm not sure how seriously I take every word Bakari says because he just gives off the vibe of being a bit bitter about some things. What did he want to be the primary ballhandler and be the go to PG? I can't blame Lottich for having him play off the ball so much because Bakari doesn't have great handles for a 1. As much as I find the amount of injuries with the ankles curious but he seemed to take a shot at the training staff on the way out. I can't give a educated opinion about the trainers qualifications, but sometimes guys like him are just injury prone as is Fazekas. 3 ankle surgeries sound like a chronic injury.
If guys were mad about playing out of position with as many injuries as we had this season then Lottich might be right about a few them being selfish. It's a team sport and the world doesn't revolve around what one individual player wants to do.
Bakari was the worst of the bunch that are leaving and it's not even close. Idk where he's going to go and get as many opportunities after so many let downs. Maybe he bounces back...maybe not.
I'll bet he winds up at oakland or Detroit.
Quote from: M on March 21, 2019, 10:38:09 PMBakari was the worst of the bunch that are leaving and it's not even close. Idk where he's going to go and get as many opportunities after so many let downs. Maybe he bounces back...maybe not. I'll bet he winds up at oakland or Detroit.
And has a great season. When healthy he was a really good player.
Quote from: M on March 21, 2019, 10:38:09 PM
Bakari was the worst of the bunch that are leaving and it's not even close. Idk where he's going to go and get as many opportunities after so many let downs. Maybe he bounces back...maybe not.
I'll bet he winds up at oakland or Detroit.
It's never good to lose 4 players at once, but it's good 3 of those were going to be seniors in what's obviously now a rebuilding year. Bakari had a terrible year - a 5.7 PER in conference. Handing the keys over to anyone not on last year's roster seems like a decent start for a rebuild.
Quote from: a3uge on March 21, 2019, 11:11:14 PMQuote from: M on March 21, 2019, 10:38:09 PMBakari was the worst of the bunch that are leaving and it's not even close. Idk where he's going to go and get as many opportunities after so many let downs. Maybe he bounces back...maybe not. I'll bet he winds up at oakland or Detroit.
It's never good to lose 4 players at once, but it's good 3 of those were going to be seniors in what's obviously now a rebuilding year. Bakari had a terrible year - a 5.7 PER in conference. Handing the keys over to anyone not on last year's roster seems like a decent start for a rebuild.
Does that include giving the keys to the whole operation to someone other than Lottich?
I think if Bakari gets healthy and find the right fit with a team, he could have a nice season. Needs to get that ankle right.
Mass transfers means there's something fundamentally wrong with the coaching staff and program. Period. Find one healthy program who has lost this many transfers in one season. You can't.
Sorry, but anything short of a full cleaning of the house at this point is a reshuffling of the deck chairs on the Titanic.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 21, 2019, 11:26:47 PM
I think if Bakari gets healthy and find the right fit with a team, he could have a nice season. Needs to get that ankle right.
Perhaps. His game took a major step back this year, but he was nowhere near as bad in 2017-18. Either way, I'm not sure a NCAA tournament worthy team will find him all that intriguing with that very poor year. It's not like he'd be a strong, consistent veteran presence.
Sometimes I wonder if some of the posters on this board are conspiring to bring the basketball program and the university to its knees. If a potential recruit would read their posts he (assuming we're talking about the men's bball program) would believe that the facilities are miserable, the coach has no clue, the athletic department refuses to support the program, and the university administration has no time for athletics. Of course, we're seeing the same few posters repeating these themes dozens of time per day.
I would like recruits to think of Valpo as a program that can show that individuals and teams can persevere in times of adversity; a program that identifies areas for player and team (and even coaches') development; a program that has a history of consistently being in the top 100 despite its challenges; a program that values academics and moral development; and a program that values its players as individuals.
We need players who share those values and believe that they will be appreciated for their contributions. We have a good core of players; I hope we can build on our core. No one has said that our coach isn't smart; I believe that he can identify his own challenges and, perhaps with help, determine what changes he needs to make.
I was raised Lutheran, and I was required to put much of the Small Catechism to memory. Luther's explanation of the eighth commandment states that when we deal with another we should "speak well of him, and put the best construction on everything." As such, I work to believe that all of the posters at heart want what is best for the university. Still, for the good of recruiting, the program, and the university, I would like everyone on this board to pay heed to Luther's admonition.
I can assure you there's no collusion.
Quote from: humbleopinion on March 22, 2019, 07:16:40 AM
Sometimes I wonder if some of the posters on this board are conspiring to bring the basketball program and the university to its knees. If a potential recruit would read their posts he (assuming we're talking about the men's bball program) would believe that the facilities are miserable, the coach has no clue, the athletic department refuses to support the program, and the university administration has no time for athletics. Of course, we're seeing the same few posters repeating these themes dozens of time per day.
I can see why you think that way. It's the same 3 or 4 posts by the same posters several times a day, with nothing really added to the discussion.
Our grad's transfer....Not Oakland. All 3 coming back for 5th year. Cleveland St. used to have this problem. Actually, I don't think 4 teammates did it at the same time immediately after the season.
With that said, I want to announce my transfer. I'm transferring my time, donations (little, but I do it) and care to something else. For 20 years I was a fan. When I was 1,000 miles away I made sure I had espn plus and would pick two games to fly too.
In a year, when things are worse, I will come back to tell the few "followers" I told you so. I just hope that in a year there isn't so much damage that the program can't overcome. This program has seen a lot of success the last 2 decades, I hope it doesn't get erased and it can get back to how it was. Until then....
Quote from: humbleopinion on March 22, 2019, 07:16:40 AM
Sometimes I wonder if some of the posters on this board are conspiring to bring the basketball program and the university to its knees. If a potential recruit would read their posts he (assuming we're talking about the men's bball program) would believe that the facilities are miserable, the coach has no clue, the athletic department refuses to support the program, and the university administration has no time for athletics. Of course, we're seeing the same few posters repeating these themes dozens of time per day.
I would like recruits to think of Valpo as a program that can show that individuals and teams can persevere in times of adversity; a program that identifies areas for player and team (and even coaches') development; a program that has a history of consistently being in the top 100 despite its challenges; a program that values academics and moral development; and a program that values its players as individuals.
We need players who share those values and believe that they will be appreciated for their contributions. We have a good core of players; I hope we can build on our core. No one has said that our coach isn't smart; I believe that he can identify his own challenges and, perhaps with help, determine what changes he needs to make.
I was raised Lutheran, and I was required to put much of the Small Catechism to memory. Luther's explanation of the eighth commandment states that when we deal with another we should "speak well of him, and put the best construction on everything." As such, I work to believe that all of the posters at heart want what is best for the university. Still, for the good of recruiting, the program, and the university, I would like everyone on this board to pay heed to Luther's admonition.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 19, 2019, 05:29:39 PM
A lot of us here don't see it in Lottich. Several fans from other schools think he is bad too. But what's more telling for you believers out there is his very own team doesn't see it.
Exact same things were said about Homer Drew, Gene Bartow, Bill Purden, Scott Drew (2002-lost Mid-Con championship game to IUPUI---
IUPUI!!!) Some players bailed on those coaches too.
The question for me is: does anything change. That's my whole argument for a fourth year. New coach, lotta outside stuff, but obviously he missed things or recruited players that had skills but didn't fit in his style. What happens next?
Micah is next. Maybe the other big. Book it.
As a manager in my past life, I always told those who I worked with that id there is a problem, just don't identify the issue and walk away. Always come armed with idas for a solution to that isue. Here goes.
In light of all that's happened this week, and if the AD were to have brought me in as a consultant to assist in dealing with this situation, I would suggest that the first step that should be taken by the Athletic Director is to perform an in-depth, structured, root cause analysis of the current crisis and make that ONE element of developing a comprehensive "Strategic Plan for the Reinvigoration of Valpo Athletics" to be shared with the President and B of T.
The first, and most immediate step would be to perform an assessment, totally independent of the MBB program, of why the sudden exit of so many quality athletes at this crucial time in the team's history. Essential to that assessment is a series of exhaustive (perhaps 90 minutes) and consistently presented, private exit interviews with the five departing players (including Deion as a graduating player).
I am not talking about the typical "what did you enjoy and what are your recommendations for improvement" type of cursory sessions. No. I am talking about a detailed script of very important questions, in several categories, that needs to be followed, in full confidence, with each transfer and Deion. To wit (this is just a flight of ideas and, of course, it needs to be fine tuned by smarter people than me, but it serves as an example):
THE UNIVERSITY
What attracted you to Valpo in the first place?
How did you find the academic experience?
Were you able to balance BB and academic responsibilities? Why/why not?
How was the social experience?
What were the highlights of your entire stay on campus?
What were the disappointments of your stay?
THE BASKETBALL PROGRAM
OVERALL:
What one thing attracted you to Valpo BB?
RECRUITING:
Overall, how would you assess how your recruitment went?
Were any promises (if any) made to you? Were they kept?
What expectations did you form coming into the program? Were they fulfilled? If not, what do you think caused that to happen?
INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS OF COACHING STAFF
What is your assessment of the coaching staff as a whole?
Was the staff as a whole always on the same page?
What was your relationship with each coach, and what do you consider the strengths and weaknesses of each?
Derek Bol – S&C
Matt Bowen – Special Assistant
Rob Holloway –Assistant
Todd Townsend – Assistant
Luke Gore – Associate Head Coach
Matt Lottich – Head Coach
OFFENSE
What is your assessment of the offense employed by Valpo?
Were you satisfied with the role you were given? Why?
What can be improved?
DEFENSE:
What is your assessment of the defense employed by Valpo
Were you satisfied with the role you were given? Why?
What can be improved?
PRACTICES
Were in-season practices well run and specific to opponent game plans?
Was there sufficient opportunity for personal skill development?
Did practices bing out the best in you?
TEAMMATES AND TEAM ENVIRONMENT/CULTURE
On a scale of 1-5 (with 1 being poor and 5 being great) how would you assess the VUBB team culture?
If less than a 5, what should be done to improve the team culture?
Was there a culture of comradeship among players? If not, why?
Were there cliques?
FACILITIES
On a 1-5 rating scale (with 1 being poor and 5 being great) how pleased were you with the BB locker room and support facilities for MBB?
If less than a 5, what should be done to improve the team facilities?
On a 1-5 rating scale (with 1 being poor and 5 being great) how pleased were you with the ARC playing facilities for MBB?
If less than a 5, what should be done to improve the ARC?
On a 1-5 rating scale (with 1 being poor and 5 being great) how pleased were you, as a player, with the game day atmosphere in the ARC?
If less than a 5, what should be done to improve the environment?
MVC AND SCHEDULE
How was playing in the MVC?
What is your assessment of the Out-of-Conference portion of the schedule?
Thoughts on scheduling?
TRAVEL
Considering the mid-major level of our program, on a 1-5 rating scale (with 1 being poor and 5 being great) how pleased were you with the travel arrangements, timing and experience for MBB?
If less than a 5, what should be done to improve the travel experience?
FINALLY:
If your best friend tells you he has a scholarship offer from Valpo to play basketball, what would you tell him?
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 22, 2019, 11:34:41 AM
As a manager in my past life, I always told those who I worked with that id there is a problem, just don't identify the issue and walk away. Always come armed with idas for a solution to that isue. Here goes.
In light of all that's happened this week, and if the AD were to have brought me in as a consultant to assist in dealing with this situation, I would suggest that the first step that should be taken by the Athletic Director is to perform an in-depth, structured, root cause analysis of the current crisis and make that ONE element of developing a comprehensive "Strategic Plan for the Reinvigoration of Valpo Athletics" to be shared with the President and B of T.
The first, and most immediate step would be to perform an assessment, totally independent of the MBB program, of why the sudden exit of so many quality athletes at this crucial time in the team's history. Essential to that assessment is a series of exhaustive (perhaps 90 minutes) and consistently presented, private exit interviews with the five departing players (including Deion as a graduating player).
I am not talking about the typical "what did you enjoy and what are your recommendations for improvement" type of cursory sessions. No. I am talking about a detailed script of very important questions, in several categories, that needs to be followed, in full confidence, with each transfer and Deion. To wit (this is just a flight of ideas and, of course, it needs to be fine tuned by smarter people than me, but it serves as an example):
THE UNIVERSITY
What attracted you to Valpo in the first place?
How did you find the academic experience?
Were you able to balance BB and academic responsibilities? Why/why not?
How was the social experience?
What were the highlights of your entire stay on campus?
What were the disappointments of your stay?
THE BASKETBALL PROGRAM
OVERALL:
What one thing attracted you to Valpo BB?
RECRUITING:
Overall, how would you assess how your recruitment went?
Were any promises (if any) made to you? Were they kept?
What expectations did you form coming into the program? Were they fulfilled? If not, what do you think caused that to happen?
INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS OF COACHING STAFF
What is your assessment of the coaching staff as a whole?
Was the staff as a whole always on the same page?
What was your relationship with each coach, and what do you consider the strengths and weaknesses of each?
Derek Bol – S&C
Matt Bowen – Special Assistant
Rob Holloway –Assistant
Todd Townsend – Assistant
Luke Gore – Associate Head Coach
Matt Lottich – Head Coach
OFFENSE
What is your assessment of the offense employed by Valpo?
Were you satisfied with the role you were given? Why?
What can be improved?
DEFENSE:
What is your assessment of the defense employed by Valpo
Were you satisfied with the role you were given? Why?
What can be improved?
PRACTICES
Were in-season practices well run and specific to opponent game plans?
Was there sufficient opportunity for personal skill development?
Did practices bing out the best in you?
TEAMMATES AND TEAM ENVIRONMENT/CULTURE
On a scale of 1-5 (with 1 being poor and 5 being great) how would you assess the VUBB team culture?
If less than a 5, what should be done to improve the team culture?
Was there a culture of comradeship among players? If not, why?
Were there cliques?
FACILITIES
On a 1-5 rating scale (with 1 being poor and 5 being great) how pleased were you with the BB locker room and support facilities for MBB?
If less than a 5, what should be done to improve the team facilities?
On a 1-5 rating scale (with 1 being poor and 5 being great) how pleased were you with the ARC playing facilities for MBB?
If less than a 5, what should be done to improve the ARC?
On a 1-5 rating scale (with 1 being poor and 5 being great) how pleased were you, as a player, with the game day atmosphere in the ARC?
If less than a 5, what should be done to improve the environment?
MVC AND SCHEDULE
How was playing in the MVC?
What is your assessment of the Out-of-Conference portion of the schedule?
Thoughts on scheduling?
TRAVEL
Considering the mid-major level of our program, on a 1-5 rating scale (with 1 being poor and 5 being great) how pleased were you with the travel arrangements, timing and experience for MBB?
If less than a 5, what should be done to improve the travel experience?
FINALLY:
If your best friend tells you he has a scholarship offer from Valpo to play basketball, what would you tell him?
Thank you, ::) no disrespect but in the Requiem thread I had already boiled down everything you said into 7 sentences and 120 words. Brevity is good, :thumbsup: and many of our posters have short attention spans. I hope our AD will put in the weeks of inquiry that both of us have suggested.
Point taken Ducky, but i purposely went into excruciating detail to illustrate that in the past, IMO, there has been a lack of structure, attention to detail, and consistent discipline to address fundamental deficiencies in most aspects of the university's approach to athletics. Those characteristics have to be instituted now. And at a level of detail similar to theexample I threw out there.
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 22, 2019, 12:25:50 PM
Point taken Ducky, but i purposely went into excruciating detail to illustrate that in the past, IMO, there has been a lack of structure, attention to detail, and consistent discipline to address fundamental deficiencies in most aspects of the university's approach to athletics. Those characteristics have to be instituted now. And at a level of detail similar to theexample I threw out there.
VULB#62 I hope you are sending this to Mark LaBarbera. I'm sure he has his hands full but he may very well find this interesting. This is the type of constructive things we need to be focusing on.
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 22, 2019, 08:07:29 AM
Our grad's transfer....Not Oakland. All 3 coming back for 5th year. Cleveland St. used to have this problem. Actually, I don't think 4 teammates did it at the same time immediately after the season.
With that said, I want to announce my transfer. I'm transferring my time, donations (little, but I do it) and care to something else. For 20 years I was a fan. When I was 1,000 miles away I made sure I had espn plus and would pick two games to fly too.
In a year, when things are worse, I will come back to tell the few "followers" I told you so. I just hope that in a year there isn't so much damage that the program can't overcome. This program has seen a lot of success the last 2 decades, I hope it doesn't get erased and it can get back to how it was. Until then....
Were you hoping for a mic drop moment here? We will be texting about Valpo well into our elder years you crazy Sooner 😉😉😉
FWIW - hot chatter around Butler is that Joey Brunk will be transferring. Actually a lot like Derrik Smits in terms of a big that is a good offensive player, but needs to improve on his ball screen defense.
Quote from: IrishDawg on March 23, 2019, 10:22:48 AM
FWIW - hot chatter around Butler is that Joey Brunk will be transferring. Actually a lot like Derrik Smits in terms of a big that is a good offensive player, but needs to improve on his ball screen defense.
If Butler fans are anything like ours I would think they would be calling for the coaches head!
They probably are... LaVall hasn't done much for Butler in his tenure. One thing they aren't complaining about however is facilities and administrative commitment. They'll be fine. One transfer isn't going to sink them. Ultimately that's true of Valpo too. Losing JFL hurts more than anything else but hopefully they can rally soon.
Just visited the MVCFans forum to see how our crisis is being discussed. The main thread title? "EMERGENCY: Valpo Nuclear Implosion"
It's not an unfair title especially from outside sources who only see how this looks to them and may not know much about the me first vs we first struggle this team seems to be facing according to Coach Lottich.
I'm now back on board with giving him another season. After reflecting on some of your (and my) comments I reached the conclusion that there is enough reasonable doubt as to who is at fault for the team's struggles to warrant giving him another year. He deserves a one year referendum on whether it's his coaching or lousy attitudes/mental midgets on the roster. Maybe it's just resignation maybe I'm just grasping at straws but why not play this out. IF he's right there is still hope for the program. If he's not and this team still sucks then he must go. No young team excuse No tough transition allowances Not injuries scheduling or travel. Nothing. Though if it is something like injuries then we really need to look at strength and conditioning as the problem and make changes there or look at what in our facilities is causing these injuries if anything.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 23, 2019, 12:48:24 PM
I'm now back on board with giving him another season. After reflecting on some of your (and my) comments I reached the conclusion that there is enough reasonable doubt as to who is at fault for the team's struggles to warrant giving him another year. He deserves a one year referendum on whether it's his coaching or lousy attitudes/mental midgets on the roster. Maybe it's just resignation maybe I'm just grasping at straws but why not play this out. IF he's right there is still hope for the program. If he's not and this team still sucks then he must go. No young team excuse No tough transition allowances Not injuries scheduling or travel. Nothing. Though if it is something like injuries then we really need to look at strength and conditioning as the problem and make changes there or look at what in our facilities is causing these injuries if anything.
Welcome back, my friend.
Quote from: wh on March 23, 2019, 01:12:01 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 23, 2019, 12:48:24 PM
I'm now back on board with giving him another season. After reflecting on some of your (and my) comments I reached the conclusion that there is enough reasonable doubt as to who is at fault for the team's struggles to warrant giving him another year. He deserves a one year referendum on whether it's his coaching or lousy attitudes/mental midgets on the roster. Maybe it's just resignation maybe I'm just grasping at straws but why not play this out. IF he's right there is still hope for the program. If he's not and this team still sucks then he must go. No young team excuse No tough transition allowances Not injuries scheduling or travel. Nothing. Though if it is something like injuries then we really need to look at strength and conditioning as the problem and make changes there or look at what in our facilities is causing these injuries if anything.
Welcome back, my friend.
...To the show that never ends (for older members with a nod to Emerson, Lake, and Palmer)
Well it looks like Golder is still hanging around VU right now at least.
https://twitter.com/barrybradford3/status/1109517691210121216
I do not think he should have one more year but I know he'll have at least that so I'm rooting hard for him to have a great summer of recruiting.
The next 3 years of this program will likely be determined before we even take the floor next year.
I do hope MLB does what was suggested and begins to really take stock of the program as a whole. One way or another the next 12 months will go a long way to defining his legacy.
I was never on the fire Lottich bandwagon. There are bigger problems at Valpo that are not being addressed.
From the outside, who wouldn't think valpo is exploding? Especially if they come to our board to learn more information and see over half the people here completely against Lottich. While he is the HC, a lot of things HAVE been, and still are, out of his control. I'm hoping it's addition by subtraction so far, and he can grab a solid player or two this offseason, and we can be a solid team next year. Valpo is STILL a name most players are familiar with and Loyola just went to the Final 4 last year...grad players want to play and the MVC was a complete toss up this year...playing time is available and NCAA bid is not completely unattainable. Time to strike.
Quote from: VUBBFan on March 23, 2019, 01:26:00 PM
Well it looks like Golder is still hanging around VU right now at least.
https://twitter.com/barrybradford3/status/1109517691210121216
Is this correct? Marcus has never formally stated he IS FOR SURE transferring. His only statement was that he was "exploring" tranferring and had no further comment.
So..... is there still a remote chance he will stay?
It's not like guys who are transferring just pack up and leave school. Still have to go to class and graduate.
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 23, 2019, 02:11:30 PM
Is this correct? Marcus has never formally stated he IS FOR SURE transferring. His only statement was that he was "exploring" tranferring and had no further comment.
So..... is there still a remote chance he will stay?
ML and staff should be pulling out all the stops to "re-recruit" Markus to Valpo. I hope that once he see's who else has interest in him, he decides to return.
Quote from: EddieCabot on March 23, 2019, 02:22:57 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 23, 2019, 02:11:30 PM
Is this correct? Marcus has never formally stated he IS FOR SURE transferring. His only statement was that he was "exploring" tranferring and had no further comment.
So..... is there still a remote chance he will stay?
ML and staff should be pulling out all the stops to "re-recruit" Markus to Valpo. I hope that once he see's who else has interest in him, he decides to return.
Per NCAA rule if you transfer to another 4-year school and do not practice or compete you can use an exception to compete immediately at your first school.......for what it's worth. Basically it must mean that if these guys enter the transfer portal it's akin to testing the NBA waters.
I don't think most of these guys are even considering taking their name off the transfer market, but it would not appear final until we fill their vacant (last) scholarship or they practice/compete with the 2nd school. Again, for what it's worth.
Quote from: VUBBFan on March 23, 2019, 01:26:00 PM
https://twitter.com/barrybradford3/status/1109517691210121216
It feels like it's been forever since Micah last played. I don't know where he's at in his recovery or overall development, but he should have a golden opportunity to be a difference-maker next year.
Quote from: wh on March 23, 2019, 06:41:44 PM
Quote from: VUBBFan on March 23, 2019, 01:26:00 PM
https://twitter.com/barrybradford3/status/1109517691210121216
It feels like it's been forever since Micah last played. I don't know where he's at in his recovery or overall development, but he should have a golden opportunity to be a difference-maker next year.
He may never be the Steph Curry-espe style type player we hoped he could be when he was an incoming freshman but if he can run the offense efficiently and be a stabilizing force on the court he could be a difference maker. He had a really good connection with Sorolla when they were on the court together. He was a solid distributor the 2nd half of that season. He just needed to fix his free throw shooting and develop a consistent jump shot to keep defenders honest.
If Bradford and Golder stayed, they'd have all of the opportunity in the world to help run this team. However, I imagine that both end up transferring.
Quote from: valpotx on March 23, 2019, 10:06:43 PM
If Bradford and Golder stayed, they'd have all of the opportunity in the world to help run this team. However, I imagine that both end up transferring.
Yeah I don't see Golder coming back. Micah I'm not so sure about.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on March 23, 2019, 04:32:06 PM
Quote from: EddieCabot on March 23, 2019, 02:22:57 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 23, 2019, 02:11:30 PM
Is this correct? Marcus has never formally stated he IS FOR SURE transferring. His only statement was that he was "exploring" tranferring and had no further comment.
So..... is there still a remote chance he will stay?
ML and staff should be pulling out all the stops to "re-recruit" Markus to Valpo. I hope that once he see's who else has interest in him, he decides to return.
Per NCAA rule if you transfer to another 4-year school and do not practice or compete you can use an exception to compete immediately at your first school.......for what it's worth. Basically it must mean that if these guys enter the transfer portal it's akin to testing the NBA waters.
I don't think most of these guys are even considering taking their name off the transfer market, but it would not appear final until we fill their vacant (last) scholarship or they practice/compete with the 2nd school. Again, for what it's worth.
Hard not to be excited about Micah's return after watching that video! :thewave:
Quote from: VU2014 on March 23, 2019, 10:26:12 PMQuote from: valpotx on March 23, 2019, 10:06:43 PMIf Bradford and Golder stayed, they'd have all of the opportunity in the world to help run this team. However, I imagine that both end up transferring.
Yeah I don't see Golder coming back. Micah I'm not so sure about.
As I said before, I thought that if either Evelyn or Golder left the other would follow suit. Right now I see Golder as testing the waters first before officially transferring. I believe he wants to play somewhere nearer his home town and family. It seems, at least to me, he is leaving the door open to remain at Valpo and maybe taking some extra time to think about it.
If he doesn't find the right fit he still has the option of staying. I would love for him to be here next year but I'm not very optimistic of that happening.
I see this like sending out resumes to test the waters. You may not really be totally upset with your current job but first want to see if there is something better before giving your formal resignatiion
Hopefully the coaches are recruiting to replace him...if they find someone they like and he hasn't made up his mind they will have to make it for him. If they can't or maybe they'd rather recruit him to stay.
Good riddance to Markus. If he doesn't want to be a valpo then leave. Why would you want to have a kid around who would rather be elsewhere.
Quote from: vu72 on March 23, 2019, 11:09:27 AM
Quote from: IrishDawg on March 23, 2019, 10:22:48 AM
FWIW - hot chatter around Butler is that Joey Brunk will be transferring. Actually a lot like Derrik Smits in terms of a big that is a good offensive player, but needs to improve on his ball screen defense.
If Butler fans are anything like ours I would think they would be calling for the coaches head!
You might be surprised. It ain't that bad. Jordan seems to get kinda of a pass, not from everybody, because he was schooled in the Butler Way and doesn't have a mental disease.
https://butlerhoops.com/forum/index.php?threads/big-east-coaches-aka-lj-is-better-than-you-think.2452/
Let me get this fantasy scenario straight. Golder wants to put his name out there, shop his services around, talk to other coaching staffs, maybe take a visit or two, discuss it with mom, then decide if he wants to stay or go? Is that it? In the meantime what do we do? Wait for his decision before recruiting a replacement while all the good transfer candidates and JC players get snapped up by other programs? Or, do we make someone an offer contingent on Golder leaving? I'm sure that would work well. Or, do we go full speed ahead and offer someone, even though Golder is still on scholarship, has elegibility left, and might want to come back?
As if current our current situation isn't unsettling enough, this would be a whole new, self-inflicted chaotic mess. There is 1, and only 1, next step - tell Golder good bye and good luck and get someone in here who's excited to be a Crusader, has a great attitude, and fills a pressing need.
Drake nearly had to start from scratch last spring. Look how things turned out for them this year. If they did it, we can too.
Paul
Quote from: wh on March 24, 2019, 11:06:56 AM
Let me get this fantasy scenario straight. Golder wants to put his name out there, shop his services around, talk to other coaching staffs, maybe take a visit or two, discuss it with mom, then decide if he wants to stay or go? Is that it? In the meantime what do we do? Wait for his decision before recruiting a replacement while all the good transfer candidates and JC players get snapped up by other programs? Or, do we make someone an offer contingent on Golder leaving? I'm sure that would work well. Or, do we go full speed ahead and offer someone, even though Golder is still on scholarship, has elegibility left, and might want to come back?
As if current our current situation isn't unsettling enough, this would be a whole new, self-inflicted chaotic mess. There is 1, and only 1, next step - tell Golder good bye and good luck and get someone in here who's excited to be a Crusader, has a great attitude, and fills a pressing need.
I'd amend it slightly to something like "Marcus, we realize you need to work through this, but in fairness to Valpo, the longer this drags on the bigger predicament the BB program is placed into. Please give us a stay or go by April 1st [5th, 15th, whatever, but soon]. At that point we will recruit to replace you unless you make a full commitment to Valpo."
Quote from: wh on March 24, 2019, 11:06:56 AMLet me get this fantasy scenario straight. Golder wants to put his name out there, shop his services around, talk to other coaching staffs, maybe take a visit or two, discuss it with mom, then decide if he wants to stay or go? Is that it? In the meantime what do we do? Wait for his decision before recruiting a replacement while all the good transfer candidates and JC players get snapped up by other programs? Or, do we make someone an offer contingent on Golder leaving? I'm sure that would work well. Or, do we go full speed ahead and offer someone, even though Golder is still on scholarship, has elegibility left, and might want to come back? As if current our current situation isn't unsettling enough, this would be a whole new, self-inflicted chaotic mess. There is 1, and only 1, next step - tell Golder good bye and good luck and get someone in here who's excited to be a Crusader, has a great attitude, and fills a pressing need.
I hadn't thought of this but, if a player indicates he wishes to transfer without a final decision, can the school revoke his scholarship in the interim and give it to another player so that when the potential transfer comes in and says "I'm back" the school can say "see ya"?
Guys we have no idea what was said or has been said. The piling on Marcus seems unnecessary.
Quote from: Valpofan15 on March 24, 2019, 09:51:57 AM
Good riddance to Markus. If he doesn't want to be a valpo then leave. Why would you want to have a kid around who would rather be elsewhere.
Good riddance? Really?? A bit harsh?
Say what you want about Golder's game but he always played hard and gave effort when he was out there. He wasn't a perfect player but he always played hard.
Maybe you should think twice about your choice of words next time... I'm not happy about his transfer either but it's not like he's a bad kid.
Quote from: JD24 on March 24, 2019, 01:06:33 PMI hadn't thought of this but, if a player indicates he wishes to transfer without a final decision, can the school revoke his scholarship in the interim and give it to another player so that when the potential transfer comes in and says "I'm back" the school can say "see ya"?
I think the answer is "yes". It seems the scholarship offers are on an annual basis, not for four years.
On a side not, I wonder if we have a shot at one of the three Northwestern transfers, two of which are immediately eligible.
Jordan Ash, 6'3" 3* from Westchester IL, played for the Illinois Wolves
Barret Benson 6'10" 3.3* from Chicago " " " " "
Aaron Falzon 6'8" 3.7* NOT Eligible
Quote from: vu72 on March 24, 2019, 01:26:54 PMI think the answer is "yes". It seems the scholarship offers are on an annual basis, not for four years.
This I'm aware of but is there a specific point in time that all parties would need to have their decisions made?
My guess is that once the tournament is over you'd want to have a final idea of scholarships available with at least a few of them close to if not already filled. Right now with four available if you count Marcus my guess is you work on getting 3 people who can play at once and start looking at the transfer sit one market to have people to choose from if Marcus leaves or anyone else does. You also may work on trying to have a cohesiveness to the players you recruit. Peters was a star recruit but he was also successful because that incoming class included Lexus, Jubril and Nick. Not necessarily because of all the talent but because they became the core of the team. We have been more more focused on slotting random players vs rebuilding a core again so this could be an opportunity to do so.
The other piece is that in today's world there's not keeping anything a secret. Maybe Golder just wanted to see what was out there, knew it would get out and so that's why we got the no comment statement vs the others who are were much more definitive on leaving
Quote from: VU2014 on March 24, 2019, 01:25:09 PM
Quote from: Valpofan15 on March 24, 2019, 09:51:57 AM
Good riddance to Markus. If he doesn't want to be a valpo then leave. Why would you want to have a kid around who would rather be elsewhere.
Good riddance? Really?? A bit harsh?
Say what you want about Golder's game but he always played hard and gave effort when he was out there. He wasn't a perfect player but he always played hard.
Maybe you should think twice about your choice of words next time... I'm not happy about his transfer either but it's not like he's a bad kid.
If that's their feelings then what do they have to think about? I'd like to see Markus finish out at Valpo though.
IDK, Bryce got away with rescinding his offer to the foreign/private Virginia school recruit when the NCAA gave Vashil Fernandez another year of eligibility.
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 23, 2019, 11:47:33 AM
Just visited the MVCFans forum to see how our crisis is being discussed. The main thread title? "EMERGENCY: Valpo Nuclear Implosion"
I think that thread title was mostly due to the over reaction on this message board.
Absolutely. The original thread title was Smits Transferring and eventually morphed to this.
Quote from: bbtds on March 24, 2019, 04:07:44 PM"EMERGENCY: Valpo Nuclear Implosion"
I was referring to this thread title from the MVCFans message board.
Quote from: bbtds on March 24, 2019, 07:56:30 PM
Quote from: bbtds on March 24, 2019, 04:07:44 PM"EMERGENCY: Valpo Nuclear Implosion"
I was referring to this thread title from the MVCFans message board.
Yes. That one MVCFans string title morphed over several days as posters changed it in their posts.
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 24, 2019, 04:36:41 PM
Absolutely. The original thread title was Smits Transferring and eventually morphed to this.
The original title of this thread was, and still is, "transfers". It was intended to track our guys transferring as well as potential transfer targets to replace them. I believe I started this thread right at seasons end before Smits announced anything.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
https://twitter.com/ColinBarnard_/status/1110276960700256256
https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1110284413290639360
https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1110283873886326784
More transfers on the market
Quote from: JD24 on March 24, 2019, 01:40:07 PM
Quote from: vu72 on March 24, 2019, 01:26:54 PMI think the answer is "yes". It seems the scholarship offers are on an annual basis, not for four years.
This I'm aware of but is there a specific point in time that all parties would need to have their decisions made?
The NCAA rules allow a school to cancel a scholarship at the end of the semester that a student requests transfer (this was the part B to the new transfer rule). His aid would be in play until the end of spring and then would not be renewed for the coming year. Valpo has a policy for this - if Markus decided to stay, then Matt could decide he would give him back his roster spot and his scholarship.
Regarding transfers this is a blast from the past. After the 1984-85 Valpo had 4 freshmen either quit or transfer out from an outstanding freshmen class. Larry Dougherty was a 6'4 guard from Kansas that lead the team in scoring with 14.2 pts/game. Jeff Rekeweg was a 6'6 forward from Kendallville In. who averaged 6.5 pts/gm and transferred to Nebraska. Curtis Rias was a 6'2 guard who averaged 5.8 pts/gm and played at Bishop Noll. Ron Rose was a 6'1 guard from Morton IL who only played 8 games but averaged 3.5 pts/gm before he quit. What this lead to was incoming recruit James Farr deciding not to come to VU. He was MVP of the 1984 class 2A championship game in Illinois playing for Chicago Mt. Carmel. Went on to have a decent career at Creighton. By the way the freshmen that decided to stay that year had fine careers at VU. Harry Bell, Jerome Battle and Todd Smith.
Quote from: RS on March 25, 2019, 07:11:25 PM
Regarding transfers this is a blast from the past. After the 1984-85 Valpo had 4 freshmen either quit or transfer out from an outstanding freshmen class. Larry Dougherty was a 6'4 guard from Kansas that lead the team in scoring with 14.2 pts/game. Jeff Rekeweg was a 6'6 forward from Kendallville In. who averaged 6.5 pts/gm and transferred to Nebraska. Curtis Rias was a 6'2 guard who averaged 5.8 pts/gm and played at Bishop Noll. Ron Rose was a 6'1 guard from Morton IL who only played 8 games but averaged 3.5 pts/gm before he quit. What this lead to was incoming recruit James Farr deciding not to come to VU. He was MVP of the 1984 class 2A championship game in Illinois playing for Chicago Mt. Carmel. Went on to have a decent career at Creighton. By the way the freshmen that decided to stay that year had fine careers at VU. Harry Bell, Jerome Battle and Todd Smith.
Harry Bell was awesome! I think he played in Hungary.
Goodman's list is now up to 350 today, and saw that Indiana State has 2 names on the list.
Guys this is a very bad sign...
Snow isn't some random dude on the internet. This has to raise a slight alarm with the AD when things like this are mentioned by people with some form of credibility.
I hope Mark LaBarbera was able to have a private and truthful exit interview with the exiting interview to get to the bottom of it. Particularly for Golder. I could see the rational for Smits and Javon but the Golder one really is the one I'd put the most stock into.
https://twitter.com/bsnow247/status/1110593905379012608?s=21
What do you expect him to say? This doesn't happen very often especially to programs ad established and respected as Valpo It's impossible to spin this positively. Hopefully this Spurs the changes we need in the institutional commitment/facilities department and puts needed pressure on the leadership to perform. One way or another I want this to spark a new and betterera in Valpo Athletics. If that happens all this pain and turmoil will have been worth it
Just got on twitter...#bringbrycehome is a thing
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
Tim Miles is leaving Nebraska. I wonder if former Valpo recruit Nana Akenten will test the transfer market. He was suspended on March 20th from the team for undisclosed reasons. Which I know will be an automatic rule out for consideration by some on this board. Not sure if the coaching staff would be willing to take a risk at this point. He's been a bit disappointing there but has been somewhat buried on the bench at times.
My gut says they don't go after red shirt guys because the coaches are in win now mode or probably should be for their jobs sake. Whatever they do I hope they keep the future of the team in mind when filling out the roster. Maybe they'll be gun shy on going after the future upside player in favor of the lowering ceiling player that could probably help immediately. Probably best to have a healthy mix of both on the roster. They need to find unselfish guys who want to play a team oriented game.
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1110617603012247552
Quote from: truth219 on March 26, 2019, 05:59:18 PM
Just got on twitter...#bringbrycehome is a thing
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
emails and letters to MLB, Heckler and the board members would be more effective at getting the point across. I know I've seen people @ing Mark LaBarbera (@ValpoAD) since the Bryce news on twitter
Let's get the two transfers from Bradley and two from Indiana State and we are done and can move forward.
Why stop there? Pretty sure LeBron has some eligibility left.
LeBron's eligibility drove away in a Hummer 17 years ago.... And, you complained about the offense this year.... Plus, he would want to be the coach and GM, too, and we saw what he did to the Lakers this year.... 8-)
Quote from: VU2014 on March 26, 2019, 06:02:53 PM
Tim Miles is leaving Nebraska. I wonder if former Valpo recruit Nana Akenten will test the transfer market. He was suspended on March 20th from the team for undisclosed reasons. Which I know will be an automatic rule out for consideration by some on this board. Not sure if the coaching staff would be willing to take a risk at this point. He's been a bit disappointing there but has been somewhat buried on the bench at times.
My gut says they don't go after red shirt guys because the coaches are in win now mode or probably should be for their jobs sake. Whatever they do I hope they keep the future of the team in mind when filling out the roster. Maybe they'll be gun shy on going after the future upside player in favor of the lowering ceiling player that could probably help immediately. Probably best to have a healthy mix of both on the roster. They need to find unselfish guys who want to play a team oriented game.
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1110617603012247552
You could not be more correct. We just parted ways with Freeman (who I would welcome back in a heartbeat) and 3 malcontents. Turning the program around and heading north next year will be critical for Matt and his entire coaching staff, and more importantly the program at large. I want nothing short of 4 quality players with choir boy reputations.
[tweet]1110944353667682304[/tweet]
Grand Canyon could be a good spot for Derrik. It is in a conference ranked above the MVC. The coach is a well-known former NBA player. The school is close to his family's new home. Verbal Commits shows no centers on the team. Great facilities. They have won more than 20 games each of the past three years. The game atmosphere is considered one of the best, and the student body turnout is legendary: see below. Makes me want to transfer there, or at least wish that Valpo's atmosphere was like this!
Happening Hoops would join you and Derrik on the next flight out. I've never seen somebody with no connection to a school shill harder for that school than he does for GCU.
I mentioned this on another thread but I'll repeat it here: If Smits didn't like playing for Lottich he will hate playing for Majerle who is very hard on his players also I don't think the WAC will outperform the MVC next year. Dixie State is joining and there will be a transition phase learning curve UMKC lost a lot and Chicago State is Chicago State. Meanwhile Bradley Missouri State UNI and Evansville are rising and Drake and Loyola should be solid
Quote from: valpopal on March 27, 2019, 12:55:07 PM
[tweet]1110944353667682304[/tweet]
Grand Canyon could be a good spot for Derrik. It is in a conference ranked above the MVC. The coach is a well-known former NBA player. The school is close to his family's new home. Verbal Commits shows no centers on the team. Great facilities. They have won more than 20 games each of the past three years. The game atmosphere is considered one of the best, and the student body turnout is legendary: see below. Makes me want to transfer there, or at least wish that Valpo's atmosphere was like this!
Which ranking places the WAC above the MVC?
Quote from: a3uge on March 27, 2019, 01:20:03 PM
Quote from: valpopal on March 27, 2019, 12:55:07 PM
[tweet]1110944353667682304[/tweet]
Grand Canyon could be a good spot for Derrik. It is in a conference ranked above the MVC. The coach is a well-known former NBA player. The school is close to his family's new home. Verbal Commits shows no centers on the team. Great facilities. They have won more than 20 games each of the past three years. The game atmosphere is considered one of the best, and the student body turnout is legendary: see below. Makes me want to transfer there, or at least wish that Valpo's atmosphere was like this!
Which ranking places the WAC above the MVC?
I was just going by the fact that the WAC had a better non-conference winning record than the MVC, and its highest NET rating was 40 (New Mexico State) while the MVC's highest NET rating was 127 (Drake). In fact, the WAC had three teams (including Grand Canyon) in the top 100 NET ratings, while the MVC had none.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 26, 2019, 06:02:53 PMThey need to find unselfish guys who want to play a team oriented game.
This, I believe, is something you not only recruit for but also takes some games to develop. When certain teams go on summer trips to foreign lands, including Canada, the effect on the team can be extremely helpful for team cohesiveness during the season. Of course this is not something new.
Some food for thought from a Loyola fan on MVCFans....
After Loyola's first year in the valley (Moser's third at LU) the entire front court transferred, I think it ended up being 6 players leaving the program. Seemed like the sky was falling. They replaced those departed players with Ben Richardson, Donte Ingram, Montel James (Second team all valley), and Earl Peterson(CBI MVP). That following year LU won 24 games and won the CBI. Which might not sound glamorous but in reality it really catapulted the team forward. Sometimes it's about finding talented guys who are really bought in; could be a blessing in disguise for Valpo.
I have definitely thought about this and this is partly why I think we need to give Lottich some time. I think there's a difference between recruiting a player with a high level of skills and recruiting a player you know how to motivate and coach.
It could really just be that Lottich had players around him that were not going to click wit his coaching style. He may have to learn some different techniques but he also may need to look at other signs of what time of player is going to engage positively with his team culture.
He really praised Kiser and Sackey seemed to respond. He also had really positive things to say about Mileek's work ethic. I think he may respond better to players who are going to grind it out, dig deeper, and not respond to frustration with a more volatile attitude. Some other players may need some help finding that motivation to overcome adversity but he seemed baffled when players, frustrated with their play, shut down and didn't just dig deeper.
MLB made it very clear that Matt IS the guy. So, no more discussion is needed. It is what it is. Take it or leave it. Might as well move on and start talking about how to make the most of it. I'll do my best not to say anything more about my thoughts regarding the situation. People know by know that I don't think he's the guy. I think there were definitely issues in all sides. Attitudes, me mentalities, etc. - but, I also have yet to see how Matt possesses the leadership skills and competence and charisma needed to take this program to the next level. His assistants leave. His players leave. The students leave. The fans leave. But, alas it's MLB's guy. I don't support it, but I don't matter. It is what it is. The whole team could transfer and he'd be the guy. Along with his sucky offense and lack of ingenuity. Buckle up folks, it's gonna be a boring ride as we drive in circles around the Land of Mediocrity.
Last post on the topic. Because it doesn't matter. We don't know anything.
Quote from: crusader05 on March 28, 2019, 10:58:41 AM
I have definitely thought about this and this is partly why I think we need to give Lottich some time. I think there's a difference between recruiting a player with a high level of skills and recruiting a player you know how to motivate and coach.
It could really just be that Lottich had players around him that were not going to click wit his coaching style. He may have to learn some different techniques but he also may need to look at other signs of what time of player is going to engage positively with his team culture.
He really praised Kiser and Sackey seemed to respond. He also had really positive things to say about Mileek's work ethic. I think he may respond better to players who are going to grind it out, dig deeper, and not respond to frustration with a more volatile attitude. Some other players may need some help finding that motivation to overcome adversity but he seemed baffled when players, frustrated with their play, shut down and didn't just dig deeper.
This season I'm sure tested even Matt's resolve. I can't blame a single kid that got down or disheartened. Those home losses down the stretch--each one a kidney shot--and a 2-10 finish. At some point the answer isn't just dig deeper. Sometimes there's no place left to dig. That's what I think happened to Javon (and Markus if he leaves). They gave their absolute all and there was nothing left to give.
I agree that this was a rough seasons. I think it's more just that coaches have different styles that work with different types of players. I don't know if Matt knows how to the coach the more emotional or reactive types of players.
You learn to handle different situations, types of players, in-game, and between game issues and challenges and successes from coaching. When you enter your division 1 head coaching experience with three total years of coaching at the end of the bench, why would any of us (myself included) expect him to know how to deal with stuff? Someday he will. It may be a long, painful road until that day. But, someday.
An earlier comment said something about maybe we don't know anything. I have to agree...some comments made recently show that some don't know anything, or very little at best.
Quote from: valpo64 on March 28, 2019, 08:56:46 PMAn earlier comment said something about maybe we don't know anything. I have to agree...some comments made recently show that some don't know anything, or very little at best.
Care to contribute something that isn't just taking a shot at people with valid concerns about the program and its direction but with whom you disagree?
"Some food for thought from a Loyola fan on MVCFans....
After Loyola's first year in the valley (Moser's third at LU) the entire front court transferred, I think it ended up being 6 players leaving the program. Seemed like the sky was falling. They replaced those departed players with Ben Richardson, Donte Ingram, Montel James (Second team all valley), and Earl Peterson(CBI MVP). That following year LU won 24 games and won the CBI. Which might not sound glamorous but in reality it really catapulted the team forward. Sometimes it's about finding talented guys who are really bought in; could be a blessing in disguise for Valpo."
I see the self-anointed MOST police are trying to censor you again. Your posts are always informative and researched and actually the reason I read that site. :) That guy's quite self-absorbed to want to control what's allowed because it doesn't suit his reading needs.
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on March 28, 2019, 01:38:54 PM
You learn to handle different situations, types of players, in-game, and between game issues and challenges and successes from coaching. When you enter your division 1 head coaching experience with three total years of coaching at the end of the bench, why would any of us (myself included) expect him to know how to deal with stuff? Someday he will. It may be a long, painful road until that day. But, someday.
Not sure why you want to limit Matt's experience to the 3 years as an assistant. His experience as a high level DI player and 9 years as a professional player for 4 different organizations and at least 4 different coaches doesn't count for anything?? Players don't pickup any knowledge from the coaches they played for or the experiences they had with the interactions of coaches and teammates? If that is true then there are a lot of coaches running around without much experience.
Quote from: FWalum on March 29, 2019, 12:03:55 PM
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on March 28, 2019, 01:38:54 PM
You learn to handle different situations, types of players, in-game, and between game issues and challenges and successes from coaching. When you enter your division 1 head coaching experience with three total years of coaching at the end of the bench, why would any of us (myself included) expect him to know how to deal with stuff? Someday he will. It may be a long, painful road until that day. But, someday.
Not sure why you want to limit Matt's experience to the 3 years as an assistant. His experience as a high level DI player and 9 years as a professional player for 4 different organizations and at least 4 different coaches doesn't count for anything?? Players don't pickup any knowledge from the coaches they played for or the experiences they had with the interactions of coaches and teammates? If that is true then there are a lot of coaches running around without much experience.
You may be right on added experience but just because you're a good sales person (with good mentors as you are saying) doesn't mean that managing people is even remotely understood. Managing ppl is difficult, managing cocky 20 somethings is quite another level.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on March 29, 2019, 12:40:57 PM
Quote from: FWalum on March 29, 2019, 12:03:55 PM
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on March 28, 2019, 01:38:54 PM
You learn to handle different situations, types of players, in-game, and between game issues and challenges and successes from coaching. When you enter your division 1 head coaching experience with three total years of coaching at the end of the bench, why would any of us (myself included) expect him to know how to deal with stuff? Someday he will. It may be a long, painful road until that day. But, someday.
Not sure why you want to limit Matt's experience to the 3 years as an assistant. His experience as a high level DI player and 9 years as a professional player for 4 different organizations and at least 4 different coaches doesn't count for anything?? Players don't pickup any knowledge from the coaches they played for or the experiences they had with the interactions of coaches and teammates? If that is true then there are a lot of coaches running around without much experience.
You may be right on added experience but just because you're a good sales person (with good mentors as you are saying) doesn't mean that managing people is even remotely understood. Managing ppl is difficult, managing cocky 20 somethings is quite another level.
I agree, I don't think that we have seen enough from Matt yet to make a determination on his abilities. His first year went very well considering the situations that were thrown at him. His management of the team during the controversial Jubril suspension kept things together and the team winning. I don't think there were many if any people saying that he was out of his depth after the first year. He is experiencing similar trends to many of the coaches we have talked about on the board as being good coaches, Porter Moser and Ben Jacobson. Would we be talking about Loyola if they had let Moser go after his first 5 years and a record of 71-91? I haven't been over to the MVC forum lately, but are the NIU posters going crazy about Jacobson being 46-50 the last 3 years?
Am I happy about the last 2 years, absolutely not, improvements need to be made in all areas, not just coaching, but two years of unacceptable wins and losses does not make a coaching career.
Quote from: FWalum on March 29, 2019, 01:09:07 PMduring the controversial Jubril suspension
Did we ever learn why he was suspended?
Quote from: mj on March 29, 2019, 09:33:45 PM
Quote from: FWalum on March 29, 2019, 01:09:07 PMduring the controversial Jubril suspension
Did we ever learn why he was suspended?
Something academic involving him and David Skara. That is why Skara was suspended for 9 games during the 17-18 season.
P.J. Carlesimo was the color commentator on radio for the Kentucky/Houston game. After both teams started 1-5 from 3, he said it's more important for Houston to pick up their outside shooting. He said Kentucky was big enough and strong enough to score inside even when Houston packed their defense in.
That got me thinking that we absolutely need to recruit a physically strong powerful forward who can score and mix it up inside inside. To Carlesimo's point, its 1 thing to have 3 cold perimeter shooters; it's entitely different to have 4.
So, it's been all quiet on the transfer front for almost 2 weeks ... is it safe to assume that no one else is leaving? I sure hope that's the case. Also, has anyone heard whether Markus has made a decision yet?
I haven't heard anything outside of people posting on this board. Markus definitely seemed less "i'm leaving for sure" than the others and more of a "i'm looking into it/seeing what's out there" but I'm going to assume he's gone just for my state of mind.
I'd think that this week we will start seeing more movement so I think if we don't have at least one announcement then i'm gonna get nervous.
I think Markus is gone. I don't know anything but it's just a gut feeling.
Anymore updates on Markus' transfer. I'm afraid we'll be a bit browner and a little less Golder next season but I don't want us to be.
Be interesting if we got a transfer named Brown or Browner.
Based on the Tournament schedule, if there is not any announcements by Wednesday, probably will be quiet until Tuesday. Folks will be heading to Atlanta for the Final 4 and the annual coaches meetings that are contemporaneous with the Final Four.
Quote from: valpo84 on April 02, 2019, 11:01:46 AM
Based on the Tournament schedule, if there is not any announcements by Wednesday, probably will be quiet until Tuesday. Folks will be heading to Atlanta for the Final 4 and the annual coaches meetings that are contemporaneous with the Final Four.
If so they will be pretty lonely. The Final Four is in Minneapolis!
As a side note, I just checked Verbal Commits and found that there are currently 585 D1 transfers. I believe there are 341 D1 programs who have 13 scholarships each. That makes 4,433 scholarship players. Assuming further that 20% graduated, that would leave 3,546 underclassmen eligible for transfer. So, at the present then, approximately 17% of those folks are on the market...and the number increases daily. Scary stuff but should leave us with plenty of players to chose from who actually want to play for Valpo!
My thought on Markus is that he is looking to transfer to a west coast team to be closer to his home town of Portland. If he can't find that perfect spot he's left the door open to return to VU.
However with his abilities and talent he show cased at Valpo, he should not have too much trouble getting some interest from schools out there. So I don't really see him coming back next year. I wish he would stay because he was so much fun to watch, but at this point I'm resigned to see him leave
Just saw that Tim Finke is transferring from Grand Canyon. I think we were recruiting him out of Champaign Illinois. He played for Alec's old team, Illinois Irish. 6'6" 4*!!!
Good catch 72, a year ahead in my mind...
Quote from: vu72 on April 02, 2019, 02:44:35 PM
Just saw that Tim Finke is transferring from Grand Canyon. I think we were recruiting him out of Champaign Illinois. He played for Alec's old team, Illinois Irish. 6'6" 4*!!!
I looked back and can't find any evidence that Valpo offered him during his original recruitment, however, I've read that he's "wide open" in terms of where he might be heading next. 247 Sports had him ranked #8 in Illinois for the 2018 recruiting class, 2 spots behind Javon.
I don't think they offered him but I think Drew went to go see him play a few times at least.
Pretty good list of offers for Finke if accurate.... http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/216556/tim-finke (http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/216556/tim-finke)
Also, 14 discussed him in the Recruiting 2018 discussion -- https://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=2221.200 (https://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=2221.200) Apparently from that he played for meanstreets with Javon... hmmm. Northwestern? Last year, NW was also looking at Talen Horton-Tucker (NBA bound?). https://www.insidenu.com/2017/4/24/15404876/northwestern-basketball-recruiting-update-cormac-ryan-lead-ayo-dosunmu-talen-horton-tucker-tim-finke (https://www.insidenu.com/2017/4/24/15404876/northwestern-basketball-recruiting-update-cormac-ryan-lead-ayo-dosunmu-talen-horton-tucker-tim-finke)
Quote from: vu72 on April 02, 2019, 02:44:35 PM
Just saw that Tim Finke is transferring from Grand Canyon. I think we were recruiting him out of Champaign Illinois. He played for Alec's old team, Illinois Irish. 6'6" 4*!!!
He just couldn't hit shots last year or he would have played a lot more than he did.
Quote from: vu72 on April 02, 2019, 02:44:35 PM
Just saw that Tim Finke is transferring from Grand Canyon. I think we were recruiting him out of Champaign Illinois. He played for Alec's old team, Illinois Irish. 6'6" 4*!!!
I can't wait to read Paul's future article titled, "Is Finke the next Peters?" ;) sorry Paul
The Valpo staff task of filling four slots seems daunting and maybe more so with the loss of Javon and Derrik. But, it is the way things are across D1 and could be a lot worse. Someone mentioned UMKC and there wholesale exits. Northwestern lost 3 plus 3 to graduation. Kent State lost 3 plus 4 to graduation. Even Butler lost 2 and 2 more to graduation.
Perhaps misery love company. In any event, given the vast number of potential players to fill our openings, I am hopeful. Will be more so when we get the first name...
Quote from: vu72 on April 03, 2019, 03:52:00 PM
The Valpo staff task of filling four slots seems daunting and maybe more so with the loss of Javon and Derrik. But, it is the way things are across D1 and could be a lot worse. Someone mentioned UMKC and there wholesale exits. Northwestern lost 3 plus 3 to graduation. Kent State lost 3 plus 4 to graduation. Even Butler lost 2 and 2 more to graduation.
Perhaps misery love company. In any event, given the vast number of potential players to fill our openings, I am hopeful. Will be more so when we get the first name...
Over the years, I've inherited people with attitude problems who would have been doing me a big favor by "looking for greener pastures." It could well be that that's how Matt is feeling right now, Freeman not withstanding. There are worse things sometimes than bringing in new blood. As Jim Collins says in Good to Great, the first thing an organization has to do to make a major step change is get the wrong people off the bus, and get the right people on the bus.
Drake picks up a 6'10" grad transfer:
[tweet]1113818520188542984[/tweet]
One player on this list has some interest in Valpo. Saw this on Google today regarding Indian Hills juco transfers. Tweet below by Matthew Bain.
"Also on the topic of Indian Hills transfers ... I talked with coach Hank Plona earlier today for the latest on his players. These lists aren't final, but here are schools some of his top unsigned guys are considering right now:" https://t.co/P1ra9gVMvA
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
Quote from: vufan75 on April 04, 2019, 03:36:50 PM
One player on this list has some interest in Valpo. Saw this on Google today regarding Indian Hills juco transfers. Tweet below by Matthew Bain.
"Also on the topic of Indian Hills transfers ... I talked with coach Hank Plona earlier today for the latest on his players. These lists aren't final, but here are schools some of his top unsigned guys are considering right now:" https://t.co/P1ra9gVMvA
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_X-W9RRMPQ
Torrey Patton appears to have went to Indian Hills from Akron. His Indian Hills roster page and his stats are below.
Appears to be a good scorer and rebounder, but his 3-point shooting % needs to improve.
https://indianhills.prestosports.com/sports/mbkb/2018-19/bios/patton_torrey_144d
Quote from: VU2014 on April 04, 2019, 06:50:35 PM
Quote from: vufan75 on April 04, 2019, 03:36:50 PM
One player on this list has some interest in Valpo. Saw this on Google today regarding Indian Hills juco transfers. Tweet below by Matthew Bain.
"Also on the topic of Indian Hills transfers ... I talked with coach Hank Plona earlier today for the latest on his players. These lists aren't final, but here are schools some of his top unsigned guys are considering right now:" https://t.co/P1ra9gVMvA
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_X-W9RRMPQ
3 point = 26.8%??? Yowza
http://www.indianhillsathletics.com/sports/mbkb/2018-19/bios/patton_torrey_144d (http://www.indianhillsathletics.com/sports/mbkb/2018-19/bios/patton_torrey_144d)
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on April 04, 2019, 07:11:18 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on April 04, 2019, 06:50:35 PM
Quote from: vufan75 on April 04, 2019, 03:36:50 PM
One player on this list has some interest in Valpo. Saw this on Google today regarding Indian Hills juco transfers. Tweet below by Matthew Bain.
"Also on the topic of Indian Hills transfers ... I talked with coach Hank Plona earlier today for the latest on his players. These lists aren't final, but here are schools some of his top unsigned guys are considering right now:" https://t.co/P1ra9gVMvA
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_X-W9RRMPQ
3 point = 26.8%??? Yowza
http://www.indianhillsathletics.com/sports/mbkb/2018-19/bios/patton_torrey_144d (http://www.indianhillsathletics.com/sports/mbkb/2018-19/bios/patton_torrey_144d)
Yeah his shooting mechanics aren't pretty or consistent. He has some nice tools and looks like he's skilled around the rim but for the love of God we need shooters. Maybe they think they can fix it but he's going to be a junior so I don't feel confident that he'll magically become a good shooter within the next 2 seasons.
Interesting story about the changing relationship between coaches and players. Coaches afraid of their players (https://larrybrownsports.com/college-basketball/geno-auriemma-coaches-afraid-their-players/490242)
Quote from: FWalum on April 05, 2019, 07:59:50 AM
Interesting story about the changing relationship between coaches and players. Coaches afraid of their players (https://larrybrownsports.com/college-basketball/geno-auriemma-coaches-afraid-their-players/490242)
The pussification of coaches, ADs, and the administration. Political correctness and lack of intestinal fortitude has made wusses out of some college basketball coaches. And the entitlement mentality that has been fostered because of this cowardice has enabled a growing number of young people to think they are owed something. This is a nationwide trend found in elementary, junior high, and high schools as well as in colleges and universities. It's quite disgusting to observe how little respect for authority so many young people have. But these are the fruits of liberalism.
Quote from: FWalum on April 05, 2019, 07:59:50 AM
Interesting story about the changing relationship between coaches and players. Coaches afraid of their players (https://larrybrownsports.com/college-basketball/geno-auriemma-coaches-afraid-their-players/490242)
Interesting article and I agree that coaches have to be more careful in order to retain players (or even keep them engaged in the team concept).
I would argue, however, that some kids questioned coach's tactics of yelling at or degrading players many years ago. In one instance, I knew a guy in high school in the late 1970s who was a top basketball player in Illinois. Great guy, 4.0 student, was second or third team All-state, team went to state quarterfinals his senior year. He was a tough defender and always played hard. He had a recruiting visit to Indiana and you would think that he would be the ideal player for Bob Knight. He came back and said, "why would I put up with that?" He ended up playing four years at Michigan, where he was always in the rotation, but seldom started.
https://twitter.com/rwweinstein/status/1114169220583919618
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1114170505119043584
Jaume is reportedly transferring.
Suddenly the "Last one out turn off the lights" joke isn't funny anymore.
To me, Sorolla leaving (after Smits, Freeman, etc. announced that they are leaving) is the last straw. This is a clear indication that the program is in shambles. A key aspect of coaching and leadership is that you attract, develop and retain talent. I tend to be more patient in calling for dismissal, but Matt Lottich needs to be dismissed immediately in as professional a manner as possible. With skilled and respected players leaving (and I know that not all players leaving fit this definition), it is very unrealistic to expect that a Valpo team coached by Matt Lottich can attract talent that will make Valpo competitive (or better) in the MVC.
I do also wonder if there might be reverse causality at play here. In other words, the players believe that Matt Lottich is leaving and are therefore deciding to leave themselves. I have no way of knowing if this is true - just throwing out an alternative idea.
It obviously isn't about playing time. He would have seen 30 to mid 30s in minutes every game. He was gonna be "The Man" in the middle. :(
The absolute worst case scenario here is Matt cobbles together a roster that wins 12-14 games, MLB decrees progress and gives him a contract extension.
Lottich is what he is. I actually still think he's got a really good career in front of him. But he's not ready. He needs at least another 5-7 years as an assistant.
The leadership question goes higher. Many on this board have astutely suggested that MLB meet with as many of the current and (soon to be) former players and get a bead on what the hell is happening in that locker room. I imagine we wouldn't know if/when that happened. But if it hasn't, there's your leadership failure.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on April 05, 2019, 09:45:00 AM
The absolute worst case scenario here is Matt cobbles together a roster that wins 12-14 games, MLB decrees progress and gives him a contract extension.
Lottich is what he is. I actually still think he's got a really good career in front of him. But he's not ready. He needs at least another 5-7 years as an assistant.
The leadership question goes higher. Many on this board have astutely suggested that MLB meet with as many of the current and (soon to be) former players and get a bead on what the hell is happening in that locker room. I imagine we wouldn't know if/when that happened. But if it hasn't, there's your leadership failure.
I thought ML had a 4 year deal but I thought I remember Michael mentioning it was a 5 year deal.
Quote from: VULB#62 on April 05, 2019, 09:37:11 AM
It obviously isn't about playing time. He would have seen 30 to mid 30s in minutes every game. He was gonna be "The Man" in the middle. :(
It's about money. He graduated. He goes back to Spain (or where ever) and starts earning a pay check. The same thing every student who graduates does. I think we may be picking kids who can graduate in three years and that creates a grad transfer situation or a grad go to work situation. I was reading somewhere about a Valpo player who, after playing professionally, came back to Valpo to finish his degree. That means he didn't graduate in four years.
What a mess...
Quote from: VULB#62 on April 05, 2019, 09:37:11 AM
It obviously isn't about playing time. He would have seen 30 to mid 30s in minutes every game. He was gonna be "The Man" in the middle. :(
Wow I didn't see that coming-
Time for the next man to step up McMillan and Kiser or do we try to recruit another big?
Quote from: vu72 on April 05, 2019, 10:05:32 AM
Quote from: VULB#62 on April 05, 2019, 09:37:11 AM
It obviously isn't about playing time. He would have seen 30 to mid 30s in minutes every game. He was gonna be "The Man" in the middle. :(
It's about money. He graduated. He goes back to Spain (or where ever) and starts earning a pay check. The same thing every student who graduates does. I think we may be picking kids who can graduate in three years and that creates a grad transfer situation or a grad go to work situation. I was reading somewhere about a Valpo player who, after playing professionally, came back to Valpo to finish his degree. That means he didn't graduate in four years.
What a mess...
I saw Jay on campus yesterday and I learned this news, but I waited until it was made official. Despite my belief all along that Jay would graduate at the end of the semester and go pro in Europe, my understanding now is that he wants to see if he can be a grad transfer to a good situation.
I'd agree that it was all about the money for Jay except it says he is transferring and not going pro so this situation isn't all about the money. It's something else that he was unhappy about apparently. He was going to play substantial minutes next year and decided to transfer :crazy: Makes you wonder why and what in the world is going on. We could very well see another transfer.....maybe Micah?
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on April 05, 2019, 09:45:00 AMThe leadership question goes higher. Many on this board have astutely suggested that MLB meet with as many of the current and (soon to be) former players and get a bead on what the hell is happening in that locker room. I imagine we wouldn't know if/when that happened. But if it hasn't, there's your leadership failure.
I no longer have any confidence in Lottich.
Many early indicators suggest that MLB has fallen far short as well.
Fire everybody. Start over.
I took in open gym last night. Micah, Sackey and Mileek where there and all played very well....guess they're about all we got left now.
I guess on the bright side I'd say that only 1 out of the 5 transfers will be an impact player at their next location.
Quote from: valpopal on April 05, 2019, 10:14:18 AMmy understanding now is that he wants to see if he can be a grad transfer to a good situation.
What is the veiled/not so veiled meaning here? P5? Nope. More playing time? Nope. Softer coach? Better teammates? Brighter colored uniforms? Bigger beds?
He wants to do less laundry.
Taller female population.
Quote from: vu72 on April 05, 2019, 11:00:49 AM
Quote from: valpopal on April 05, 2019, 10:14:18 AMmy understanding now is that he wants to see if he can be a grad transfer to a good situation.
What is the veiled/not so veiled meaning here? P5? Nope. More playing time? Nope. Softer coach? Better teammates? Brighter colored uniforms? Bigger beds?
I am not so sure that Soralla won't end up at a P5/Big East team if he is realistic (meaning that he understands that he is a role player and not the star). He has good defensive skills and 'you cannot teach big'. In fact, I would not be surprised to see he or Smits end up at Butler.
I would love to know if MLB is having exit interviews and what these players are saying. Because none of us really know the exact nature of what is going on here without that intel. Was there 1 or 2 dynamic personality in the locker room creating a negative feedback loop that led us here or is Lottich really that bad of a coach that players felt like they had to leave.
Take this with a grain of salt as I coach a different sport at a different level, I can tell you I have had 4 players all give up on me and their teammates around the same time due to 1 negative voice in the locker room using every waking moment to spout on to friends and family about how bad a coach I was despite the fact that every player that bought in to the program was having success. A negative voice that I should have removed long before I let it effect the attitudes of their teammates, parents, etc.
Maybe it is Lottich's fault and he needs to go, but being a coach that has seen unwarranted mutiny, I can't say for sure he is entirely to blame although I know that is the easiest conclusion to reach.
I wish I knew what the players who are not transferring are thinking as well. Is there a sense of relief or terror? If there is a sense of relief it is because all players not bought in are gone and its time to get to work. If there is a sense of terror than that points to Lottich driving players away. Either way NONE of us have all the info and probably never will. If MLB is doing he job he should have all this info so that he can make a wise decision on how to proceed.
Any of you who are still holding out hope ... God bless you for your optimism. Sorry - I can't be with you. I jumped off this wagon many months ago. Wish I had a reason to come back on.
So instead of playing big minutes in hopes of a big season to line up a big payday Sorolla leaves Not good The decision to keep Lottich only looks worse I'm sorry it's just a fact
Sorry Coach Lottich...I'm going to have to vote no confidence. I hate to be over reactive here, but who survives (5) transfers and back-2-back losing seasons anymore?
If he stays it's because our Board of Directors is short term minded and not medium/long term (financially) on athletics.
I'm tired of saying wait and see here, and yes this is all emotions. The real question is can we recruit a coach of any caliber with our budget and facilities. If the answer is "maybe" then .......I just don't know. It's backwards to say "fire him" without having a good idea of what's next.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on April 05, 2019, 12:45:44 PMIt's backwards to say "fire him" without having a good idea of what's next.
Then call me backwards. Lottich should be fired and everybody else including MLB should offer their resignations. The only thing we have left to salvage is the future of our program.
This situation has reached a point, if not beyond, where something dramatic needs to be done in order to offer hope to the fans. Lottich doesn't have time to rebuild with a freshman class or transfers that have to sit out, and he must know he has to roll the dice. He might have to try to fill the five transfer openings with an all-star fab five of grad transfers or juco players to add immediately with Gordon, Robinson, Fazekas, Kiser, McMillan, Sackey, and the incoming freshman, Clay. To me, Bradford is still questionable. Explaining this strategy of immediate impact to the prospective players could help get commitments. Maybe it would be a team that surprises everyone. The only chance moving forward is to get lucky with the transfers enough to post a decent year that will entice future recruits. Also, from a public relations standpoint, it would be better if the new players were announced sooner rather than later in order to turn around the current negative direction of momentum.
I'm still for letting him coach next year but my Lord is this just one giant mess. 5 guys left. FIVE. I don't want to hear any BS or spin job about this just being CBB these days. 5 transfer are NOT normal!! This falls on the staff.
Mark LaBarbra better be looking into coaching candidates for next offseason starting now. Coach Lottich better pull a rabbit out of his hat next season and having a shockingly good season to justify saving his job. I don't mean mediocre. I mean clearly arrow pointing up season with young future impact talent players (that currently don't even exist on this roster).
I've seriously had enough of this. I'll plug my nose and tolerate next season but after that we better be headed in a new direction at the top if he doesn't have a surprisingly good season.
Time for a restart. We need to clean house from the top down. Some things just don't always work out as planned. When it doesn't, it's best to be realistic and start over fresh. We can't accept being mediocre for the next 5 years. We've accepted it the last few years and enough is enough.
I would like this thread to start talking more about transfers in than transfers out. It would have to raise morale for the players still in the gym to hear about some new team mates.
Another loser. Go home to mommy. We don't need you.
Clearly, he never progressed past his Freshman year. He's just a big stiff who might shoot 50% on an uncontested layup. He won't be hard to replace at all. Another good opportunity to improve our overall player quality. This is getting better by the day. Kudos to Matt for getting rid of all the deadwood.
It's not like the 5 we lost are world beaters...if more then 1 of them makes a major impact at their new location I will be shocked. That said...we need some news about incoming guys very soon.
Quote from: wh on April 05, 2019, 02:35:55 PM
Another loser. Go home to mommy. We don't need you.
Clearly, he never progressed past his Freshman year. He's just a big stiff who might shoot 50% on an uncontested layup. He won't be hard to replace at all. Another good opportunity to improve our overall player quality. This is getting better by the day. Kudos to Matt for getting rid of all the deadwood.
This degree of turnover is usually an indicator of poor leadership (in firms, organizations and government).
I sincerely hope that there is an influx of good talent, but I strongly doubt that will happen for two reasons: 1. if there were good players 'in waiting', Valpo would have announced at least one player with good talent and potential signing on to Valpo. They have not. 2. Any well-regarded high school player or JUCO is going to look at this degree of turnover and assume that there is something significantly wrong...and will thus not want to be a part of it.
Quote from: M on April 05, 2019, 02:37:51 PM
It's not like the 5 we lost are world beaters...if more then 1 of them makes a major impact at their new location I will be shocked. That said...we need some news about incoming guys very soon.
Freeman has the best chance to have a major impact. Smits and Sorolla can be role players at the 5 at a team from the Top 8 conferences and possibly set themselves up for a career in Europe.
Quote from: wh on April 05, 2019, 02:35:55 PM
Another loser. Go home to mommy. We don't need you.
Kudos to Matt for getting rid of all the deadwood.
Apparently the deadwood on this teams was the 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 7th leading scorers.
Quote from: mj on April 05, 2019, 04:49:12 PM
Quote from: wh on April 05, 2019, 02:35:55 PM
Another loser. Go home to mommy. We don't need you.
Kudos to Matt for getting rid of all the deadwood.
Apparently the deadwood on this teams was the 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 7th leading scorers.
Thank you for saying this...some people love these kids until they transfer....this team is in trouble....the fans need answers
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
Comical to listen to... they're not the ones getting paid. They're kids. Kids on scholarship - yes. But, the buck isn't supposed to stop with unpaid college athletes. It's gotta stop with those who are well-paid employees hired to find, develop, and retain talented young athletes. And when they do that - sure you'll lose some games. Sure, you're not guaranteed a winning record. Sure, you'll still lose some guys here and there. I didn't see people upset after Parker and Marten transferred. At this point, many are starting to raise their eyebrows and ask: what's going on? Especially when you tag on the back-to-back losing seasons filled with blown leads and all sorts of ups and downs but mostly question marks.
More players looking to transfer? This whole offseason has been embarrassing.
https://twitter.com/JKroft5/status/1114262312054087680
https://twitter.com/JKroft5/status/1114263549629685763
As of right now, our returning players are: Fazekas, McMillian, Kaiser, and Sackey. That's a very very bad Division 1 team.
According to Verbal Commits, Valpo is one of twenty-two D1 teams who have had five or more players transfer. I guess it isn't as uncommon as I thought.
Quote from: truth219 on April 05, 2019, 04:54:55 PM
Quote from: mj on April 05, 2019, 04:49:12 PM
Quote from: wh on April 05, 2019, 02:35:55 PM
Another loser. Go home to mommy. We don't need you.
Kudos to Matt for getting rid of all the deadwood.
Apparently the deadwood on this teams was the 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 7th leading scorers.
Thank you for saying this...some people love these kids until they transfer....this team is in trouble....the fans need answers
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
It's perfectly natural to think differently about a player after they quit the team. And by the way, these aren't "kids." They're all 18-22 year old adults. If they were working instead of attending college, they would be nothing more than immature, spoiled young employees who think far more of themselves and their contributions to the workplace than they should. The boss doesn't appreciate them, management is stupid, blah, blah, blah. So they start job hopping until they finally come to the realization that maybe they didn't have it as bad as they thought, and need to let some air out of their inflated egos.
It must be hard rooting for a team where you actually hate all of the players.
I'm not sure I'd call the players transferring immature or spoiled. If you look at it like a job with the players being the employees and ML and the AD being the boss, the players have voiced displeasure of some sort by all leaving otherwise they'd have stayed. Every job I've had with people leaving or heard of people leaving in masses was when people were not been happy with the leadership or overall structure. Rather than blaming those leaving, we need to look at why they are all leaving and fix it.
I think J has a ton of potential but we could not develop him further. He had a great freshman year and went backwards.
I'm hearing there is 1 more transfer coming that's not Bradford which is expected.
Quote from: mj on April 05, 2019, 06:49:47 PM
It must be hard rooting for a team where you actually hate all of the players.
You nailed it, mj; it's all about hate. You're an amazingly perceptive person.
Quote from: wh on April 05, 2019, 07:15:03 PMYou nailed it, mj; it's all about hate. You're an amazingly perceptive person.
Gotta thank my Valpo education for that.
Quote from: wh on April 05, 2019, 06:08:07 PMIt's perfectly natural to think differently about a player after they quit the team. And by the way, these aren't "kids." They're all 18-22 year old adults. If they were working instead of attending college, they would be nothing more than immature, spoiled young employees who think far more of themselves and their contributions to the workplace than they should. The boss doesn't appreciate them, management is stupid, blah, blah, blah. So they start job hopping until they finally come to the realization that maybe they didn't have it as bad as they thought, and need to let some air out of their inflated egos.
Excellent rebuttal. :thumbsup: We invested time, energy and financial resources in these guys and our payback is embarrassing. If Lottich or LaBarbera walked away from any conversations and exit interviews feeling snowed or deceived then I will excuse them in advance for whatever their responses.
Meanwhile we still need a new AD and coach. Lottich couldn't see this coming and LaBarbera couldn't or can't recognize that operating with blind spots never works.
Had these players all stayed, we would be replacing 1 player this year and 6 next (nearly half the team). Instead, we're replacing 5 this year and 2 next. It's basically a wash.
Moreover, had the current group stayed in tact, I have little faith that next year would turn out much differently than the last 2, given the negativity and hard feelings exhibited by certain players. Instead, we have an opportunity to rebuild now around 3 very good veteran players, and what will hopefully be a gifted freshman. This whole development could very well get this program back on track sooner than it otherwise would have.
Sure, we may just push up our rebuild a year, but if the underlying issues aren't addressed what's to prevent it from happening again?
And do we have faith in this coaching staff to develop and integrate the guys they do bring in.
You can put lipstick and a pretty dress on a pig but it's still a pig.
We will probably be replacing more then 2 next year. Gotta believe at least one of these incoming players will be a senior grad transfer.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: wh on April 05, 2019, 07:15:03 PM
Quote from: mj on April 05, 2019, 06:49:47 PM
It must be hard rooting for a team where you actually hate all of the players.
You nailed it, mj; it's all about hate. You're an amazingly perceptive person.
It must be hard living living in the world when you generalize and hate all 18-22 year olds. Two points: (1) you are wrong about your generalization of 18-22 year olds (and I guarantee that I spend more time with them than you do), (2) I really hope that you are not in any job in which you manage or work with 18-22 year olds.
Quote from: vu84v2 on April 06, 2019, 07:52:31 AM
Quote from: wh on April 05, 2019, 07:15:03 PM
Quote from: mj on April 05, 2019, 06:49:47 PM
It must be hard rooting for a team where you actually hate all of the players.
You nailed it, mj; it's all about hate. You're an amazingly perceptive person.
It must be hard living living in the world when you generalize and hate all 18-22 year olds. Two points: (1) you are wrong about your generalization of 18-22 year olds (and I guarantee that I spend more time with them than you do), (2) I really hope that you are not in any job in which you manage or work with 18-22 year olds.
Amazing how easily my response to mj went over your head. mj, in his usual effort to discredit the author of a contrary opinion, labeled me a hater because I dared to hold the players accountable for their own actions, which flew in the face of the all too predictable "its all someone else's fault (in this case Lottich's) blame shifting that's so in vogue in today's me-centered culture. Rather than defend myself against such nonsense, I simply used sarcasm.
Does that help?
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on April 06, 2019, 07:02:18 AM
Sure, we may just push up our rebuild a year, but if the underlying issues aren't addressed what's to prevent it from happening again?
And do we have faith in this coaching staff to develop and integrate the guys they do bring in.
Bingo
Quote from: wh on April 06, 2019, 08:46:05 AMI dared to hold the players accountable for their own actions, which flew in the face of the all too predictable "its all someone else's fault (in this case Lottich's) blame shifting that's so in vogue in today's me-centered culture.
IIRC, Lottich is a prime example of a "blame shifter." Team was tired, team traveled too much, team had laundry to do, blah, blah, blah.
Also, I'm not sure how bashing players online, after they leave, is holding them "accountable."
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on April 06, 2019, 07:02:18 AM
Sure, we may just push up our rebuild a year, but if the underlying issues aren't addressed what's to prevent it from happening again?
And do we have faith in this coaching staff to develop and integrate the guys they do bring in.
A fair question. I would answer it this way. If the coaching staff does successfully integrate the guys they bring in, and if that integration translates into a successful season, then that says a lot about the players who left. Conversely, if they don't successfully integrate the guys they bring in, and suffer through a third consecutive frustrating, underachieving season, then that says a lot about Matt Lottich and staff. That's also the way I would put it to Matt if I were his boss - "You're telling me the guys who left had attitude problems and weren't coachable. Ok, next year is the final year of your 3-year contract. I think it's only fair to give you another year to turn the program around with a roster chocked full of players that you and your staff personally recruited. Here are my expectations for that year... Good luck."
Apparently he's got two years left according to Osipoff
The problem with Valpo athletics is that mediocrity gets rewarded by the folks in leather chairs with furniture with mahogany smell. I want to be excellent, not competitive with near 500 records. To do that, there needs to be a plan and some calculated risk.
I really believe the university does not want to succeed in athletics, which is a shame.
I'd say this along with what was said if I'm MLB:
You do one of the following in order to keep your job:
1. Win the regular season
2. Win the MVC tournament
3. Get into the NCAA tournament
4. Get an NIT birth.
5. Win 25+ games
I think it all depends on the contract length. We do not buy out contracts. If it's a five year deal he'll be here at least two more years.
also, if we're still trying to decode random student athletes tweets this one was just retweeted by Stallings
https://twitter.com/scubasmitty/status/1114142451562950656
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on April 07, 2019, 10:28:27 AM
I think it all depends on the contract length. We do not buy out contracts. If it's a five year deal he'll be here at least two more years.
So Carlson's contract just happened to end after the Butler debacle? Or did his contract say that the contract would end if he lost by 70 to anybody? :rotfl:
Quote from: vu72 on April 07, 2019, 11:22:23 AM
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on April 07, 2019, 10:28:27 AM
I think it all depends on the contract length. We do not buy out contracts. If it's a five year deal he'll be here at least two more years.
So Carlson's contract just happened to end after the Butler debacle? Or did his contract say that the contract would end if he lost by 70 to anybody? :rotfl:
Honestly as someone at that game his contract should have ended at half time.
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on April 07, 2019, 10:04:02 AMI'd say this along with what was said if I'm MLB: You do one of the following in order to keep your job: 1. Win the regular season 2. Win the MVC tournament 3. Get into the NCAA tournament 4. Get an NIT birth. 5. Win 25+ games
There probably isn't a coach in the country who could meet any of these requirements. You really think any of these is a reasonable expectation for next season?
The sad part is that those used to be reasonable expectations at valpo
Carlson should have been let go after 2 years, and no more than 3. I think he had a 5 year contract.
Quote from: valpolaw on April 07, 2019, 12:57:31 PMThe sad part is that those used to be reasonable expectations at valpo
So after 2009-10 your reasonable expectation was amongst the listing presented? There is a sense of entitlement with this program which is far from earned.
I think a goal for consistent excellence is good. At this stage, I hate to say that the Saders have a long road ahead.
I'm worried about the Tom Smith era coming back.
Quote from: JD24 on April 07, 2019, 01:05:33 PMQuote from: valpolaw on April 07, 2019, 12:57:31 PMThe sad part is that those used to be reasonable expectations at valpo
So after 2009-10 your reasonable expectation was amongst the listing presented? There is a sense of entitlement with this program which is far from earned.
Fine how about this, can we please at least not be a punching bag in EVERY SPORT including our flagship sport that got us into this great conference? Can we at least bring SOMETHING to the table on a consistent basis? If that's entitled then there's a problem. Right now we have one sport (Women's Volleyball) that performed anywhere near acceptability (maybe the soccer programs I can't remember their records off hand). We are not adding much to the MVC right now and fans on all sides are rightly getting annoyed. It's not entitlement to expect that your team finish in at least the top 4-6 of every sport and occasionally compete for and bring home a conference title while consistently adding value in the flagship sport. We are doing none of that right now. Yes I understand it's year two but in this "what have you done for me" world leashes with fanbases are incredibly short. We need to improve a bunch and in a hurry.
Isn't it obvious we don't belong in this conference?
We don't have the resources or support from the administration and we certainly don't have the facilities
I yearn for the Horizon League days
Yes yearn for the days of playing in half empty gyms against apathetic fan bases who didn't travel and against irrelevant teams who got no coverage in their hometowns.
Yearn for the days of 5 win programs rolling into the ARC on a consistent basis.
Yearn for the days of one and done tournament money.
Yearn for the days of getting screwed out of an at large because our conference sucks.
If you want a program that is content to beat up on the little sisters of the poor that's fine but that's not what I signed up for and that's not the program I root for. If that's what our administration and leadership wants you can expect me to get very strident with my calls for their ouster both on this board and at events. There will be fire______________signs if necessary.
That statement is exactly what the administration and the board wants to hear. It's the same low ambition big fish in a small pond that gets teams nowhere (Don't even try me with the Gonzaga example. That's a program that should have multiple championships by now but they don't because their tomato can conference doesn't prepare them for teams with size and length who can defend and they can't recruit the athletes necessary to beat those teams because coaches use how crappy the WCC is against Gonzaga in recruiting.)
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 07, 2019, 01:51:39 PMYes yearn for the days of playing in half empty gyms against apathetic fan bases who didn't travel and against irrelevant teams who got no coverage in their hometowns. Yearn for the days of 5 win programs rolling into the ARC on a consistent basis. Yearn for the days of one and done tournament money. Yearn for the days of getting screwed out of an at large because our conference sucks. If you want a program that is content to beat up on the little sisters of the poor that's fine but that's not what I signed up for and that's not the program I root for. If that's what our administration and leadership wants you can expect me to get very strident with my calls for their ouster both on this board and at events. There will be fire______________signs if necessary. That statement is exactly what the administration and the board wants to hear. It's the same low ambition big fish in a small pond that gets teams nowhere (Don't even try me with the Gonzaga example. That's a program that should have multiple championships by now but they don't because their tomato can conference doesn't prepare them for teams with size and length who can defend and they can't recruit the athletes necessary to beat those teams because coaches use how crappy the WCC is against Gonzaga in recruiting.)
You didn't sign up for anything except, presumably, an education.
Finally a big
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1114971363939422214
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1114971371723984897
Based on his highlights, the young lad can make a layup.
Avg 4.2 pts and 2.5 reb in about 12 mins per game in Danish League. 1-14 from 3 point land. This was in 2018.
7.8 pts and 3 rebs in 18mins during U18 FIBA.
Quote from: JD24 on April 07, 2019, 03:02:09 PMBased on his highlights, the young lad can make a layup. Avg 4.2 pts and 2.5 reb in about 12 mins per game. 1-14 from 3 point land.
Which some of our former 7 footers had trouble with at times.
I like that we're bringing in an inexperienced big to develop and hopefully contribute down the road. That said, we still need at least 1 true center and 1 athletic PF that like to mix it up inside on both ends to round out next year's rotation.
Here's what I said:
"I'd say this along with what was said if I'm MLB: You do one of the following in order to keep your job: 1. Win the regular season 2. Win the MVC tournament 3. Get into the NCAA tournament 4. Get an NIT birth. 5. Win 25+ games"
I'm still trying to make sense of this comment:
"There probably isn't a coach in the country who could meet any of these requirements. You really think any of these is a reasonable expectation for next season?"
Seriously?????????
No coach in the country could do ONE of the following????
1. Win the regular season
2. Win the MVC tournament
3. Get into the NCAA tournament
4. Get an NIT birth.
5. Win 25+ games
Are you implying no coach in the country could come into Valpo and do ONE of these things???
How is that possible?
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1115004974021398534
and we've got another
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on April 07, 2019, 04:22:05 PMHere's what I said: "I'd say this along with what was said if I'm MLB: You do one of the following in order to keep your job: 1. Win the regular season 2. Win the MVC tournament 3. Get into the NCAA tournament 4. Get an NIT birth. 5. Win 25+ games" I'm still trying to make sense of this comment: "There probably isn't a coach in the country who could meet any of these requirements. You really think any of these is a reasonable expectation for next season?" Seriously????????? No coach in the country could do ONE of the following???? 1. Win the regular season 2. Win the MVC tournament 3. Get into the NCAA tournament 4. Get an NIT birth. 5. Win 25+ games Are you implying no coach in the country could come into Valpo and do ONE of these things??? How is that possible?
Next season no.
I like the avoidance of the likely temptation to bring in transfers with a limited period of eligibility.
Quote from: crusader05 on April 07, 2019, 04:39:05 PM
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1115004974021398534
and we've got another
Either Lottich knew what was coming (Transfer Palooza) or he's scrapping the bottom of the barrel. Hmm...
we are competing against incarnate word for recruits......we are screwed.
5-11 slow PG who on the video will be eaten alive by MVC guards. We are grabbing whatever we can at this point.
As long as the PG can shoot 3's we will be fine. He also got an offer from Montana State.
Also I think over seas recruitment is a bit different so i'm less likely to judge who recruits them.
Quote from: crusader05 on April 07, 2019, 04:39:05 PM
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1115004974021398534
and we've got another
North Pole Hoops shows him as a 6-9 Center. I think 6-7 was from a year ago.
http://northpolehoops.com/players/ben-krikke/
Not sure whether to be excited about the new recruits or worried that no other schools really appear to have been recruiting them.
Quote from: JD24 on April 07, 2019, 02:16:15 PMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on April 07, 2019, 01:51:39 PMYes yearn for the days of playing in half empty gyms against apathetic fan bases who didn't travel and against irrelevant teams who got no coverage in their hometowns. Yearn for the days of 5 win programs rolling into the ARC on a consistent basis. Yearn for the days of one and done tournament money. Yearn for the days of getting screwed out of an at large because our conference sucks. If you want a program that is content to beat up on the little sisters of the poor that's fine but that's not what I signed up for and that's not the program I root for. If that's what our administration and leadership wants you can expect me to get very strident with my calls for their ouster both on this board and at events. There will be fire______________signs if necessary. That statement is exactly what the administration and the board wants to hear. It's the same low ambition big fish in a small pond that gets teams nowhere (Don't even try me with the Gonzaga example. That's a program that should have multiple championships by now but they don't because their tomato can conference doesn't prepare them for teams with size and length who can defend and they can't recruit the athletes necessary to beat those teams because coaches use how crappy the WCC is against Gonzaga in recruiting.)
You didn't sign up for anything except, presumably, an education.
This attitude right here: this "my school right or wrong" attitude right here; Is precisely why people like me and many folks I talk to as well as a growing segment of people on this board are growing concerned anxious and losing hope. That's exactly the type of thing you say when you don't care about or are content with how things are going despite rampant underperformance and less than stellar commitment. If you're fine with that God bless you but I'm not. I want better. and I want the people in charge of the school that I gave five years of my life to to want better as well.
Quote from: valpolaw on April 07, 2019, 06:31:05 PMNot sure whether to be excited about the new recruits or worried that no other schools really appear to have been recruiting them.
We asked him to do something. I guess this is something? So I guess this is progress? Part of the process? Or something? I don't know. I just hope this guys are good and can win some games. If not we're in a world of hurt and may not recover from this for a long time. Go Valpo! But count me as concerned...
Quote from: valpopal on April 05, 2019, 01:49:16 PM
This situation has reached a point, if not beyond, where something dramatic needs to be done in order to offer hope to the fans. Lottich doesn't have time to rebuild with a freshman class or transfers that have to sit out, and he must know he has to roll the dice. He might have to try to fill the five transfer openings with an all-star fab five of grad transfers or juco players to add immediately.... Also, from a public relations standpoint, it would be better if the new players were announced sooner rather than later in order to turn around the current negative direction of momentum.
As I mentioned in the previous message, something "dramatic" needed to be done and Lottich had to "roll the dice." However, I thought he'd be looking for a quick fix from a fab-five of grad transfers or juco players (and he might with the few slots still open). Nevertheless, the strategy thus far seems to be to find a few international diamonds in the rough, players not heavily sought and pleased to be selected by Valpo, who will work hard as a unit and not be selfish. I'm guessing that the thinking of the coaching staff must be these players have traveled widely and played against international competition, so they will be more mature and seasoned than most high school recruits. Additionally, I imagine Lottich believes these international players have a lot of untapped potential that will materialize when they get here with the coaches and in the weight room. I hope it happens quickly. If so, this could be the beginning of a strong nucleus for the future four years. If not, he may not get four years. I like that he appears to be gambling with a determined strategy , and I look forward to seeing if the gamble pays off.
Say what you will of Lottich Even if nobody else believes in his abilities he sure believes in himself. I don't know if I would have had the heart or the stomach for a gamble like this.
I guess I respect the gamble. We're either two years from the top of the MVC or two years from a new coach (and AD).
I mean we've tried the 3/4 star disaffected transfer route and that didn't get us anywhere. At least one of these guys if not two sound like they'd had contact with even during the season so they are not necessarily coming out of nowhere and with the other two spots I'd expect(hope) to see a grad transfer or two.
Have been checking out Ben Krikke on internet. Shoots the 3. Not a bad handle for a big guy and willing to drive the basket. Did have an offer from South Alabama. Reminds me of David Skara in many ways but with a larger frame. Lets give these new guys a break
I think Ryan Broekhoff and Kevin Van Wijk might have a thing or two to say about under recruited international players. ::) Time will tell. Definitely seems like Lottich is focusing on building a culture.
Quote from: RS on April 07, 2019, 07:50:45 PM
Have been checking out Ben Krikke on internet. Shoots the 3. Not a bad handle for a big guy and willing to drive the basket. Did have an offer from South Alabama. Reminds me of David Skara in many ways but with a larger frame. Lets give these new guys a break
Well said. Three young men are absolutely thrilled to have received an offer from Valparaiso University and can't wait to begin their new journey. They sound like hard workers with great attitudes about wanting to get better, helping the team improve, etc. It isn't fair to prejudge them just because we're in a collective foul mood over something they had no connection to. We should be welcoming them with open arms and wishing them our very best.
Quote from: govalpogo on April 07, 2019, 07:58:29 PM
I think Ryan Broekhoff and Kevin Van Wijk might have a thing or two to say about under recruited international players. ::) Time will tell. Definitely seems like Lottich is focusing on building a culture.
This times 1,000! Rowdy mentioned to us after the game on Friday, that no one recruited him, and he had really only 1 other D1 option. He hadn't heard of Valpo when Chris Sparks recruited him, but that sure paid off for us! It was cool that Chris was also in town to watch him play, so that connection stayed true.
Anyone still trying to spin this as "look at all these selfish players" completely has their head in the sand. An exodus of this size is ENTIRELY on the coaching staff's incompetence and they need to be replaced. Name one, just one, successful program that has had this level of turnover and continued to be successful. You can't. Because there isn't one. (And no, smart guy, one-and-dones at an elite P5 program don't count. Those players are leaving for a *giant paycheck,* not because of dissatisfaction with their college coach/program).
There is one answer staring everyone in the face here, and no one wants to own up to it. You have several guys, all at different phases of development, all from different backgrounds, all determining at once that their futures are best served somewhere, anywhere, that they aren't being coached by Matt Lottich. Any AD who lets this debacle continue on their watch is as complicit as the head coach.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on April 07, 2019, 09:49:10 PM
Anyone still trying to spin this as "look at all these selfish players" completely has their head in the sand. An exodus of this size is ENTIRELY on the coaching staff's incompetence and they need to be replaced. Name one, just one, successful program that has had this level of turnover and continued to be successful. You can't. Because there isn't one. (And no, smart guy, one-and-dones at an elite P5 program don't count. Those players are leaving for a *giant paycheck,* not because of dissatisfaction with their college coach/program).
There is one answer staring everyone in the face here, and no one wants to own up to it. You have several guys, all at different phases of development, all from different backgrounds, all determining at once that their futures are best served somewhere, anywhere, that they aren't being coached by Matt Lottich. Any AD who lets this debacle continue on their watch is as complicit as the head coach.
Hopefully, one thing we can all agree on, yourself included, is that you are proven wrong.
Herman...is that you?
I hope you are vindicated and we are able to look back at this era and my postings (rantings? ravings?) with laughter at their utterly stupid and reactionary character because the alternative isn't funny for anyone, it's just sadness and misery for years...
Schools with 4 or more outbound transfers in 2018 that appeared in the NCAA or NIT tournaments this year (data per Verbal Commits):
Sam Houston State - 6 transfers - NIT
Iona - 5 transfers - NCAA
LSU - 5 transfers - NCAA
New Mexico State - 5 transfers - NCAA
Buffalo - 4 transfers - NCAA
Campbell - 4 transfers - NIT
Dayton - 4 transfers - NIT
Montana - 4 transfers - NCAA
Murray State - 4 transfers - NCAA
NC State - 4 transfers - NIT
North Carolina Central - 4 transfers - NCAA
Northern Kentucky - 4 transfers - NCAA
Texas Tech - 4 transfers - NCAA championship game
Washington - 4 transfers - NCAA
Wichita State - 4 transfers - NIT
Quote from: Valpo06 on April 07, 2019, 11:53:05 PM
Schools with 4 or more outbound transfers in 2018 that appeared in the NCAA or NIT tournaments this year (data per Verbal Commits):
Sam Houston State - 6 transfers - NIT
Iona - 5 transfers - NCAA
LSU - 5 transfers - NCAA
New Mexico State - 5 transfers - NCAA
Buffalo - 4 transfers - NCAA
Campbell - 4 transfers - NIT
Dayton - 4 transfers - NIT
Montana - 4 transfers - NCAA
Murray State - 4 transfers - NCAA
NC State - 4 transfers - NIT
North Carolina Central - 4 transfers - NCAA
Northern Kentucky - 4 transfers - NCAA
Texas Tech - 4 transfers - NCAA championship game
Washington - 4 transfers - NCAA
Wichita State - 4 transfers - NIT
Did any one of those schools have nearly every one of their starting five leave? Or did they leave for the typical reasons of not playing and sitting on the bench?
Yeah I think the transfer situation is a case by case thing. Parker Hazen leaving is a lot different from Javon Freeman leaving.
Quote from: Valpo06 on April 07, 2019, 11:53:05 PM
Schools with 4 or more outbound transfers in 2018 that appeared in the NCAA or NIT tournaments this year (data per Verbal Commits):
Sam Houston State - 6 transfers - NIT
Iona - 5 transfers - NCAA
LSU - 5 transfers - NCAA
New Mexico State - 5 transfers - NCAA
Buffalo - 4 transfers - NCAA
Campbell - 4 transfers - NIT
Dayton - 4 transfers - NIT
Montana - 4 transfers - NCAA
Murray State - 4 transfers - NCAA
NC State - 4 transfers - NIT
North Carolina Central - 4 transfers - NCAA
Northern Kentucky - 4 transfers - NCAA
Texas Tech - 4 transfers - NCAA championship game
Washington - 4 transfers - NCAA
Wichita State - 4 transfers - NIT
Who are these four transfers from Texas Tech?
A recent list doesn't show any transfers FROM Texas Tech: https://watchstadium.com/news/comprehensive-list-of-college-basketball-players-transferring-12-29-2018/
TT transfer IN were Owens and Mooney THIS SEASON.
EDIT: My bad. You made it clear these were 2018 transfers.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 07, 2019, 11:47:23 PM
I hope you are vindicated and we are able to look back at this era and my postings (rantings? ravings?) with laughter at their utterly stupid and reactionary character because the alternative isn't funny for anyone, it's just sadness and misery for years...
It's very possible we could be doing some of both. We might get a middling result from Lottich and coaching staff and your reaction is still (in your words) utterly stupid and reactionary character of rantings and ravings.
Quote from: Valpo06 on April 07, 2019, 11:53:05 PM
Schools with 4 or more outbound transfers in 2018 that appeared in the NCAA or NIT tournaments this year (data per Verbal Commits):
Sam Houston State - 6 transfers - NIT
Iona - 5 transfers - NCAA
LSU - 5 transfers - NCAA
New Mexico State - 5 transfers - NCAA
Buffalo - 4 transfers - NCAA
Campbell - 4 transfers - NIT
Dayton - 4 transfers - NIT
Montana - 4 transfers - NCAA
Murray State - 4 transfers - NCAA
NC State - 4 transfers - NIT
North Carolina Central - 4 transfers - NCAA
Northern Kentucky - 4 transfers - NCAA
Texas Tech - 4 transfers - NCAA championship game
Washington - 4 transfers - NCAA
Wichita State - 4 transfers - NIT
2020 Valpo national championship game confirmed.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on April 08, 2019, 08:00:19 AM
Yeah I think the transfer situation is a case by case thing. Parker Hazen leaving is a lot different from Javon Freeman leaving.
Javon came and went with Dildy, I'm not the least bit surprised. I thought we had a chance to retain Javon if we had a strong year but we took a crap and this is the result.
Better to get out of a sinking ship on the first life raft. We could end up plugging the holes, but Javon only had the "liberty" of seeing the Valpo program in the vacuum of one year of chaos and he made the right call potentially.
Let's hope it works out and this is the new start we desperately need. It's a matter of constants and variables. If Matt is the constant and the players are the variables, one of two things can happen.
1. The players who left are the problem. Whether it be attitude, effort, skill, or a combo of any of these.
2. The players who left are not the problem as much as the smart ones who got out while they could and we're left with the same issues resulting in underperformance.
Now, I predict what this *does* do in a lot of ways is provide Matt with a safety net.
1. If things go well, he can say - told you so. It was the darn players and their attitudes. Me-mentalities.
2. If it doesn't go well and we get more of the same, he can say - well, you've gotta trust the process. They're new. They're young. They haven't played b-ball in the U.S.
It's a win-win for him more so than a gamble on his behalf. Likely secures him a contract extension either way given the remakes we've heard from administration.
Hopefully - worst case scenario - he learns how to become a head coach over these years of Valpo fans struggling to stay optimistic. And maybe it'll pay off down the road.
Best case scenario - ironically - he matures into a really good coach someday OR strings together some injury-free seasons full of all the right breaks that lands him an opportunity to move up in the ranks lol. Shoot, he's only in his mid-30's.
In that event, we are the only losers in the deal. If we could get Bryce to stay at Valpo and afford him, why would we be able to coerce another winning coach whose last name isn't Drew to stay?
I'd also say there's a middle place between 1 and 2 where neither the players or coaches were the "problem" but that expectations and reality didn't meet and issues were discovered.
I think that we recruited a bunch of players who had the talent but also maybe had different expectations (win a lot, star of the program, flashier and brasher, etc) and when they didn't gel we found out that Matt's current coaching strategy and culture didn't mesh well with motivating and leading that type of player. I think it's a skill he will need to learn but we definitely had chippier players in higher quantities than I think we have ever had in the past.
Some of that is recruiting, some of that is player attitude, and some of that is coaching strategy. Coaching is something you learn from and grow from over time but you need to recruit the types of players you know you can work with best first and I think you need to figure out what type of culture and team mentality you want and start from the ground up. I do not think every single player that left had an attitude problem and the all of the 5 we will bring in plus the 2 coming off the bench don't all have attitude problems either so if we see some of the red flags of frustration, lack of cohesiveness and failure to perform consistently I think you can say that it's on the coaching staff. If we don't and we perform well and seem like a team and things look to be on an upward trajectory I won't think that Matt all of a sudden did a 180 on coaching but I will think he figured out how to recruit for the team culture he wants to have and the other stuff will grow and develop over time.
Looks like he might may end up closer to his home and family.
https://twitter.com/WildcatReport/status/1118246657483784192
Looking for my shocked face....
Accepting graduate transfers could come at higher pricehttps://www.nwitimes.com/sports/basketball/college/accepting-graduate-transfers-could-come-at-higher-price/article_8828984d-8356-55b8-b4df-0c98f7c33cc6.html
QuoteThe NCAA Division I Council is expected to vote by Friday on an amendment that would require a grad transfer to count against a team's scholarship total for two years, no matter how much eligibility the player has left when they arrive. An exception would be made for athletes who complete graduate degree requirements before the start of the second year./www.nwitimes.com/sports/basketball/college/accepting-graduate-transfers-could-come-at-higher-price/article_8828984d-8356-55b8-b4df-0c98f7c33cc6.html
Quote from: Just Sayin on April 17, 2019, 05:40:37 AM
Accepting graduate transfers could come at higher price
https://www.nwitimes.com/sports/basketball/college/accepting-graduate-transfers-could-come-at-higher-price/article_8828984d-8356-55b8-b4df-0c98f7c33cc6.html
QuoteThe NCAA Division I Council is expected to vote by Friday on an amendment that would require a grad transfer to count against a team's scholarship total for two years, no matter how much eligibility the player has left when they arrive. An exception would be made for athletes who complete graduate degree requirements before the start of the second year./www.nwitimes.com/sports/basketball/college/accepting-graduate-transfers-could-come-at-higher-price/article_8828984d-8356-55b8-b4df-0c98f7c33cc6.html
I doubt it passes, but I guess we'll see. I like the part where it would require them to complete the grad degree in order to eliminate the 2 season scholarship penalty.
Quote from: VUBBFan on April 16, 2019, 08:49:40 PM
Looks like he might may end up closer to his home and family.
https://twitter.com/WildcatReport/status/1118246657483784192
Here I thought his goal was to make it to the NCAAs! Apparently those top notch facilities made a great impression!
D1 transfers now at 659. We've got a ways to go as every year since 2015 there have been 800 or more. Joey Brunk to Indiana.
Tracey Ramsey from Valpo High School and Don Bosco is transferring from Maryland....
Quote from: vu72 on April 17, 2019, 08:21:45 AM
Quote from: VUBBFan on April 16, 2019, 08:49:40 PM
Looks like he might may end up closer to his home and family.
https://twitter.com/WildcatReport/status/1118246657483784192
Here I thought his goal was to make it to the NCAAs! Apparently those top notch facilities made a great impression!
Makes as much sense as saying he wants to transfer to Duke to get more playing time. :crazy:
"The Wildcats received their only invitation to the NCAA Tournament in 2017, after 78 straight years without a bid. The Wildcats have won two Big Ten conference championships (1931 and 1933)." Wikipedia
I like Trace Ramsey. Sits out a year and takes over after Ryan and Jon graduate. Knows Meleek, Helm, and Langston.
Quote from: tiny707 on April 17, 2019, 12:38:11 PM
I like Trace Ramsey. Sits out a year and takes over after Ryan and Jon graduate. Knows Meleek, Helm, and Langston.
He may have four years of eligibility as he only played a total of 10 minutes and managed to score 1 point! :o
Others are showing early interest in Ramsey, but I have to think Valpo would be a preference for him and his family.
[tweet]1118586542220546048[/tweet]
Shot at Hilltop Gym - Trace Ramsey HS Workout video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teJBsFC5U1I
Quote from: wh on April 17, 2019, 04:08:49 PM
Shot at Hilltop Gym - Trace Ramsey HS Workout video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teJBsFC5U1I
Great find! Donovan Clay is also a lefty. Could be a nice fit for us. Gotta love Hilltop! What a beautiful practice facility.
Quote from: vu72 on April 17, 2019, 01:02:19 PMTrace Ramsey
So no lingering effects from his serious back issue during high school? Seems really strange that he would only play 10 minutes the entire season.
I liked what I saw in Ramsey's workout video at the Hilltop Gym; however, like too many other athletes' videos, I had to turn off the soundtrack, which had numerous horrible and offensive lyrics that would result in me getting kicked off this board if I quoted them.
Quote from: vu72 on April 17, 2019, 04:13:42 PM
Great find! Donovan Clay is also a lefty. Could be a nice fit for us. Gotta love Hilltop! What a beautiful practice facility.
Didn't realize Clay was a lefty (I haven't watched much video), but he uses his right hand pretty well too! Always a plus.
https://twitter.com/valpo_hoops/status/1118650451350687744?s=21
It's been a very long and injury plagued road for this young man. It would be quite poetic if he found success with Valpo if he landed here.
Someone refresh me on Zion Morgan....
Freshman Trace Ramsey plans to leave Maryland men's basketball
https://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/terps/bs-sp-trace-ramsey-maryland-basketball-transfer-0417-story.html
He was a guard, played 2 I believe that we recruited around the same time as Micah and ended up going to, I believe, UNLV. Unsure how long he stayed there. This is just off the top of my head and it only sticks cause I believe he people though he decommitted after Micah came on board because they both played the same position.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on April 17, 2019, 06:06:28 PM
Someone refresh me on Zion Morgan....
He played at Kenwood with Nick Robinson at high school. He committed to Valpo while Bryce was still the Head Coach, but decommitted to Valpo once Micah Bradford committed because it was rumored that he wanted to play PG. He was going to play for a prep school to up his offers but former UWM coach Rob Jeter got fired and went to UNLV and recruited him there. He didn't have stellar freshman season. He injured his knee and left UNLV. I think he's been playing Wabash somewhere ever since. I'm not sure if the athleticism ever came back, but I haven't seen him play. I'm not sure there is a ton of upside here, but I guess we need to trust the coaches. If I remember correctly he had good length and was more of slasher than a shooter.
Stats: http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/4066783/zion-morgan
Wabash stats: http://njcaa.org/sports/mbkb/2018-19/div1/players/zionmorgangxpd
http://www.wvcwarriorathletics.com/sports/mbkb/2018-19/bios/morgan_zion_ofeh?view=bio
Wabash Highlights:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaNPGPxHlmQ
HS Highlights:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOGlvhM2Pq8
https://www.suntimeshighschoolsports.com/2015/10/09/henricksen-kenwoods-zion-morgan-chooses-valparaiso/
https://www.prephoops.com/2015/11/zion-morgan-decommits-from-valpo/
https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/highschool/ct-spt-0513-prep-basketball-morgan-unlv-20160512-story.html
Quote from: crusader05 on April 17, 2019, 06:53:14 PM
He was a guard, played 2 I believe that we recruited around the same time as Micah and ended up going to, I believe, UNLV. Unsure how long he stayed there. This is just off the top of my head and it only sticks cause I believe he people though he decommitted after Micah came on board because they both played the same position.
I'd be ok with us passing on him this time around. Do we need more G that can't shoot from deep?
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on April 17, 2019, 07:37:15 PMQuote from: crusader05 on April 17, 2019, 06:53:14 PMHe was a guard, played 2 I believe that we recruited around the same time as Micah and ended up going to, I believe, UNLV. Unsure how long he stayed there. This is just off the top of my head and it only sticks cause I believe he people though he decommitted after Micah came on board because they both played the same position.
I'd be ok with us passing on him this time around. Do we need more G that can't shoot from deep?
He didn't exactly light up the stats in JC. Doesn't mean he can't be/isn't a good player, but I'm not exactly jumping out of my seat here. From his stats, looks to be primarily a true PG, more of a distributor than a shooter. Doesn't foul much. Could be a good fit as I am assuming Robinson/Gordon/Fazekas will all need their shots and we may want a better ball handler than Sakey to run the show. .
Would he have 3 years left? Or 2?
Have we expressed interest in any available transfers?
Quote from: valpo64 on April 18, 2019, 02:56:15 PM
Have we expressed interest in any available transfers?
Jordan Ash and the kid from Idaho State
Any word on the Zion Morgan visit? Maybe they brought him in to work him out and get a feel for if it would be a fit? Maybe we won't end up offering.
The official visit day info/tweet i thought mentioned Monday. Question i had was which Monday. This past Monday 4/15 or next Monday 4/22?
https://twitter.com/YkZmo_/status/1118648708659326978?s=19
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
Quote from: vufan75 on April 18, 2019, 10:42:25 PM
The official visit day info/tweet i thought mentioned Monday. Question i had was which Monday. This past Monday 4/15 or next Monday 4/22?
https://twitter.com/YkZmo_/status/1118648708659326978?s=19
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
Don't most say "this past Monday" if they meant 4/15? This is future tense to me...
Agreed. I took the tweet as meaning Monday 4/22 but wasn't positive when the question about the visit was asked. Good point you make though!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
My guess is if Ramsey would decide to transfer here he could probably be eligible immediately because at this point the NCAA pretty much grants immediate eligibility to everyone who "moves closer to home" for whatever reason players/families make up. Think about how many MVC players got immediate eligibility after transferring into the conference this season. Think MoSt who somehow managed to get Da Silva/Dixon/Ridder all immediately eligible. Think about how bad they would have been this year if all 3 had to sit out a year.
If he goes elsewhere he likely would have to sit out a year. So, perhaps this would be a good destination for that reason alone.
Transfer proposal shot down:
even the NCAA realizes the [Existing] graduate transfer rule is a good one
QuoteThe issue was the graduate transfer rule, which allows a student-athlete upon completion of his degree to transfer to another institution and enroll in a graduate program and finish out his athletic eligibility without having to sit out a season before doing so. It's a popular measure, one that 125 Division I basketball players used this past season.
That was too many, in the eyes of some, who saw the rule as being overused by student-athletes who cared more about the athletic than the academic component. These critics proposed that if the student-athlete did not finish his or her graduate degree in a year, then the school would lose a scholarship the following year.
....Case in point, a Stanford grad who played basketball at Kentucky this past season. We're talking Reid Travis, a major asset to the Cats on the floor and surely a contributor in the classroom. The 6-foot-8 forward from Minneapolis impressed everyone with his skill and maturity. While Travis made no bones that he was using the rule to help his chances of playing professionally, so what? That's his choice.
As B. David Ridpath argued in Forbes, Travis and his brethren are not really graduate transfers, they're graduate students. Having fulfilled their obligation by graduating, they are free to enroll at any school and graduate program that will have them. They're not transferring. They're free to move on to the next step in furthering their academic, and in his case athletic, development.
https://www.kentucky.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/john-clay/article229500834.html
https://twitter.com/scottybscout/status/1120021817182134272?s=21
Quote from: VU2014 on April 21, 2019, 06:07:54 PM
https://twitter.com/scottybscout/status/1120021817182134272?s=21
Doesn't sound like a good fit:
"Akenten appeared in 28 games this season, averaging 4.3 points and 2.5 rebounds per game. He shot 36.4% from the field and 30.4% from behind the arc.
Akenten was suspended indefinitely by former coach Tim Miles after the Michigan State game March 5 for a violation of team rules. He didn't play in the final six games.
Nebraska coaches said Monday that Akenten was still with the program but dealing with academic issues."
Yeah we have had our fair share of those issues and don't need anyone who can't make the grades
https://twitter.com/jucorecruiting/status/1120135779718709251?s=21
Quote from: wh on April 21, 2019, 07:00:43 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on April 21, 2019, 06:07:54 PM
https://twitter.com/scottybscout/status/1120021817182134272?s=21
Doesn't sound like a good fit:
"Akenten appeared in 28 games this season, averaging 4.3 points and 2.5 rebounds per game. He shot 36.4% from the field and 30.4% from behind the arc.
Akenten was suspended indefinitely by former coach Tim Miles after the Michigan State game March 5 for a violation of team rules. He didn't play in the final six games.
Nebraska coaches said Monday that Akenten was still with the program but dealing with academic issues."
Stats don't tell the whole story. Take a look at Lavonte Dority's stats before coming to Valpo... worked out pretty well in the end. But I hear what you're saying about the "off the court" stuff but we don't know the whole story but I'm willing to bet the coaches will find out and know what went down. They had a huge strike out with Burton but I'm hoping the that is an outlier in judgement. As long as Nana showed up to class he'd be a 100% improvement from Burton. Need to trust the coaching staffs judgement.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/lavonte-dority-1.html
Quote from: VU2014 on April 21, 2019, 10:18:59 PM
https://twitter.com/jucorecruiting/status/1120135779718709251?s=21
Blake Furcron sounds very interesting and tape looks pretty good as well. A pretty effective shooting stroke. Also some really nice finishing ability at the rim and shows he's willing to fight for boards and tip in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h99h6ljDCsQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JAIgPR7QFM
Heard NKU might be a landing spot for Bakari. Their assistants have reached out. Ironically they don't have a HC yet but they might promote from within.
They must have been persuaded by replays of all bakari's game ending winning shots..... :crazy:
Quote from: valpolaw on April 22, 2019, 09:36:13 PM
They must have been persuaded by replays of all bakari's game ending winning shots..... :crazy:
I think I saw those Bakari videos.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3Dt0I4mTEdAf8&ved=2ahUKEwiYwe2WreXhAhUR2qwKHWN8B3UQwqsBMAF6BAgHEAo&usg=AOvVaw3QeDXA2ZA0zj92EsCldfl-
Heard the Valpo staff is showing interest
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/kareem-south-1.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1W-iLP51Dw
[tweet]1120908855456800768[/tweet]
Quote from: valpopal on April 24, 2019, 09:38:12 AM
[tweet]1120908855456800768[/tweet]
He would make us an immediate contender and would be perfect to allow Freese-Vilien a year to mature.
I'm hearing Zion Morgan has committed to Valpo.
Quote from: valpopal on April 24, 2019, 01:22:10 PM
I'm hearing Zion Morgan has committed to Valpo.
Confirmed:
[tweet]1121112610559135744[/tweet]
Sit one, play two?
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on April 24, 2019, 01:34:11 PM
Sit one, play two?
Should be immediately eligible since he was at junior college.
From skunk flower to roses. This could be the best job of spring cleaning this program has ever done.
OK now we have added some freshmen, transfer(s) going and coming....where does the roster stand for the coming season? Who will be on picture for the 2019-20 season? It sure has been a wild off season...are we done yet as far as additions go? Next season could be very interesting for us and all around the MVC.
Who is on first...?
Here's what I've got - feel free to correct what I've missed on
1 year left: Ryan Fazekas, John Kizer
2 years left: Eron Gordan, Micah Bradford*, Nick Robinson, Zion Morgan, Mileek McMillian
3 years left: Daniel Sackey
4 years left: Donovan Clay, Sigurd Lorange, Ben Krikke, Emil Freese-Vielin
Missed the Ash signing...isn't he the kid from Northwestern?
Did we offically get Ash?
Thanks for the update, "M"
That means Jordan Ash is out (I'm guessing!) Need to add a big now!
Quote from: M on April 24, 2019, 02:26:04 PM
Here's what I've got - feel free to correct what I've missed on
1 year left: Ryan Fazekas, John Kizer
2 years left: Eron Gordan, Jordan Ash, Nick Robinson, Zion Morgan, Mileek McMillian
3 years left: Daniel Sackey
4 years left: Donovan Clay, Sigurd Lorange, Ben Krikke, Emil Freese-Vielin
I believe you need to remove Ash and for now put Bradford on the list with a question mark.
Quote from: valpopal on April 24, 2019, 03:08:54 PM
Quote from: M on April 24, 2019, 02:26:04 PM
Here's what I've got - feel free to correct what I've missed on
1 year left: Ryan Fazekas, John Kizer
2 years left: Eron Gordan, Jordan Ash, Nick Robinson, Zion Morgan, Mileek McMillian
3 years left: Daniel Sackey
4 years left: Donovan Clay, Sigurd Lorange, Ben Krikke, Emil Freese-Vielin
I believe you need to remove Ash and for now put Bradford on the list with a question mark.
So size wise we currently go 6'11", 6'8", 6'7", 6'7",6'7", 6'5", 6'5", 6'4",6'3", 6'2",5'11", 5'10".
Yes you're right...I misread the Ash part on verbal commits. I will update my original post.
Some good quotes in here. He sounds like a very confident kid.
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/1121192203030806528
Is Sackey referring to Bakari?
https://twitter.com/dsackey_4/status/1121205706147995648
Given Sackey wore 4 in HS and has 4 in his Twitter handle, I'm guessing that means he wears #4 next year.
Zion sounds like a good get. Hopefully this means our marijuana bandit is gone now. Maybe this spring cleaning will be a good change of pace with fresh and hungry guys.
Transfergate is going to be a blessing in disguise.
God I hope you're right... I really do... As much as I complain and get angry about the state of the program I cannot and never would actually go away forever. I love my school and this team too much. Go Valpo! Hopefully we've got a hungry and talented group that can contend in the Valley!
Quote from: M on April 24, 2019, 07:38:11 PM
Transfergate is going to be a blessing in disguise.
Agreed to a degree but losing both centers was tough because of the amount of inexperience it left us. If Sorolla would have stayed we'd be in a better spot than currently.
I kinda get why the others left, but Sorrolla is a little confusing to me. Was there ever an explanation on him? If he's headed back to Europe, then I understand.
But if he transfers to another D1, that seems odd. Apologies if I missed some obvious news on this. That's the one that suggested to me that there was some problem with the program.
Quote from: M on April 24, 2019, 07:38:11 PM
Transfergate is going to be a blessing in disguise.
Gotta give credit where credit's due. Matt and the rest of the staff have done an amazing job of retooling - practically overnight. Zion is the icing on the cake.
The talent wasnt there. Is it there now? Tbd. But we have/had a chance to improve. I think the core is there. Ideally we land a solid big yet and iirc we have one spot open yet. Regardless of the immediate season, we could be onto something in 2 seasons.
What am I missing here? There's a lot of talk about the team being re-tooled overnight and seemingly improved. I just don't see it--I think we have taken huge steps backwards. I want the team to be great and if we needed a culture change, ok, but what has been done that has you guys thinking positively here?
Quote from: ARCInsider on April 24, 2019, 10:02:35 PM
What am I missing here? There's a lot of talk about the team being re-tooled overnight and seemingly improved. I just don't see it--I think we have taken huge steps backwards. I want the team to be great and if we needed a culture change, ok, but what has been done that has you guys thinking positively here?
I'll also need convincing on this newly assembled team. We don't have a serviceable PF or C...Mileek flat out sucks if he can't play minutes without fouling. He's a huge disappointment because he's the last big standing and has done zilch in two years.
VU might lose every game and learn they have a severe lack of talent (I don't believe this will happen)...
But if instead of having to see Bakari wasting possessions, Smits crying after every call, Golder not dribbling with his left or making a selfish play on a fast break, or Sorolla be completely inept on offense I get to see these new guys play hard, unselfish, and not complain I guarantee I will enjoy next season more then this past one.
Hopefully this last scholarship (and in reality hopefully it's two open scholarships) go to a big guy who can play and contribute right away.
I don't know... Maybe we are better...
Gordon replaces Javon
Robinson replaces Golder
Ash replaces Micah (unconfirmed)
Zion replaces Bakari
We have a potential Smits replacement
Then we add in our other signings... Maybe we are better...
No more 4 on 5 on offense with Sorolla. No more 4 on 5 on defense with Smits No more awful shot selection by Bakari. I've said it before and I'll say it again: the only player we will miss and will struggle to replace is Javon and to a lesser extent Golder. As for the rest of them? Deuces.
Quote from: M on April 24, 2019, 10:43:12 PM
VU might lose every game and learn they have a severe lack of talent (I don't believe this will happen)...
But if instead of having to see Bakari wasting possessions, Smits crying after every call, Golder not dribbling with his left or making a selfish play on a fast break, or Sorolla be completely inept on offense I get to see these new guys play hard, unselfish, and not complain I guarantee I will enjoy next season more then this past one.
Hopefully this last scholarship (and in reality hopefully it's two open scholarships) go to a big guy who can play and contribute right away.
I'm on board with seeing these guys compete without crying, undoubtedly. That alone is worth no Bakari and Smits.
Quote from: valpopal on April 24, 2019, 01:30:59 PM
Quote from: valpopal on April 24, 2019, 01:22:10 PM
I'm hearing Zion Morgan has committed to Valpo.
Confirmed:
[tweet]1121112610559135744[/tweet]
I hope Zion isn't
lion this time and follows through.
As I imagine sitting in the stands, it will be interesting watching what amounts to a whole new team on the floor. I see Mileek, Kiser, and Sackey being role players with the lineup.
I liked some things that I saw from Mileek this year, but he has to play forward. It was when he was asked to be a backup center that he immediately got into foul trouble.
Quote from: 4throwfan on April 24, 2019, 09:21:03 PM
I kinda get why the others left, but Sorrolla is a little confusing to me. Was there ever an explanation on him? If he's headed back to Europe, then I understand.
But if he transfers to another D1, that seems odd. Apologies if I missed some obvious news on this. That's the one that suggested to me that there was some problem with the program.
Sorrolla is being handled (I don't necessarily mean that in a negative Skara way) by the Spanish national team. This was made very apparent by his trip back to Spain for treatment when he had the ankle injury early in the season. His allegiance there is very understandable because, lets face it, that is where his future in basketball will be determined. When Smits left and he would no longer be competing on a daily basis against another 7 footer, I speculate that his Spanish coaches probably said, "Hey he has a degree and can transfer without sitting a year, lets see if we can put him in a more competitive situation". If they don't get what they think is a good fit then I suspect he would go back to Spain and play there. There really is no pressure to do one thing or the other.
Quote from: ARCInsider on April 24, 2019, 10:02:35 PM
What am I missing here? There's a lot of talk about the team being re-tooled overnight and seemingly improved. I just don't see it--I think we have taken huge steps backwards. I want the team to be great and if we needed a culture change, ok, but what has been done that has you guys thinking positively here?
Let me give it a try. Last year we ended the year starting Sorolla, Freeman, Lavender, Golder and Kiser. None of them shot 30% from the 3. Ex-Sorolla, no one was taller than 6'5". This year, (presumably) we are much deeper, bringing back our best shooter in Ryan at 6'7" together with Nick Robinson at 6'5", a proven A-10 player, Eron Gordon, one of the highest ranked players out of high school to even come to Valpo and now add Zion, also at 6'5". We bring in a very good shooting freshman from Canada at 6'7" a First Team Illinois player also at 6'7" as well as a point who can score and a 6'11" guy with soft hands! At the same time we bring back, with a year of maturity, the fastest guy in the league and of course, reliable John Kiser and...we still have one (maybe two slots open).
So it looks to me like one of the freshman get a start--(my guess is Krikke or Clay) together with probably McMillan, Gordon, Robinson and Fazekas. We will be deep--very deep. We will have 12 or 13 scholarship players available. Last year we started with 11, then lost Micah and then Ryan. That left us with 9 scholarship players. We can't help but be better.
How's that? ;D
Not bad, 72. I've stepped a couple of inches back off the ledge.
I agree with 72 that there is no need to feel horrible and think the world of Valpo MBB had gone to h*ll. A feeling that over took this message board for a while when several posters thought the coach should be fired because certain players decided to transfer due to their individual situations and kept posting and posting and posting the same thing. It was evident that some of these players transferring we're not team players and only cared about their individual situation which was on display during games.
OTOH, we know very little about how the players coming in will play as a team and what their individual talent will be on the floor. It might be an even worse team than last year. That is possible. But there is no use throwing our hands up and saying "Woe is us, we are horrible and our coach should be fired." That just is not accurate when Valpo MBB could be a good group of team players that truly excel.
Patience is needed to wait out to see in the end what this VUMBB team ends up being.
Quote from: vu72 on April 25, 2019, 08:33:37 AM
Quote from: ARCInsider on April 24, 2019, 10:02:35 PM
What am I missing here? There's a lot of talk about the team being re-tooled overnight and seemingly improved. I just don't see it--I think we have taken huge steps backwards. I want the team to be great and if we needed a culture change, ok, but what has been done that has you guys thinking positively here?
Let me give it a try. Last year we ended the year starting Sorolla, Freeman, Lavender, Golder and Kiser. None of them shot 30% from the 3. Ex-Sorolla, no one was taller than 6'5". This year, (presumably) we are much deeper, bringing back our best shooter in Ryan at 6'7" together with Nick Robinson at 6'5", a proven A-10 player, Eron Gordon, one of the highest ranked players out of high school to even come to Valpo and now add Zion, also at 6'5". We bring in a very good shooting freshman from Canada at 6'7" a First Team Illinois player also at 6'7" as well as a point who can score and a 6'11" guy with soft hands! At the same time we bring back, with a year of maturity, the fastest guy in the league and of course, reliable John Kiser and...we still have one (maybe two slots open).
So it looks to me like one of the freshman get a start--(my guess is Krikke or Clay) together with probably McMillan, Gordon, Robinson and Fazekas. We will be deep--very deep. We will have 12 or 13 scholarship players available. Last year we started with 11, then lost Micah and then Ryan. That left us with 9 scholarship players. We can't help but be better.
How's that? ;D
Quote from: bbtds on April 25, 2019, 09:45:02 AM
I agree with 72 that there is no need to feel horrible and think the world of Valpo MBB had gone to h*ll. A feeling that over took this message board for a while when several posters thought the coach should be fired because certain players decided to transfer due to their individual situations and kept posting and posting and posting the same thing. It was evident that some of these players transferring we're not team players and only cared about their individual situation which was on display during games.
OTOH, we know very little about how the players coming in will play as a team and what their individual talent will be on the floor. It might be an even worse team than last year. That is possible. But there is no use throwing our hands up and saying "Woe is us, we are horrible and our coach should be fired." That just is not accurate when Valpo MBB could be a good group of team players that truly excel.
Patience is needed to wait out to see in the end what this VUMBB team ends up being.
Excellent posts. Logical, reasonable, hopeful.
I must say that I was ready to give up on the program, but Matt Lottich's hustling to restore the roster has to be commended.
Now, we will really see if he's a good coach. I'm not sure if I've ever been qualified enough to judge a coach, but if the team is successful this coming season (top 4 in the league, credible performance in MVC tourney) Lottich will probably be a candidate for conference coach of the year.
On the other hand, if they suck again, we'll be back to where we were all feeling about 3-4 weeks ago.
If we land a seasoned big as part of this recruiting effort the guy needs to change his name from Matt Lottich to Matt Lazarus with his resurrection of personnel.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26530279/college-basketball-transfer-rankings-2019-20-2020-21
We should be all in on #10 though that would seem unlikely. A more likely choice is #40 he started at Drake.
The landing of Zion is a good and hopeful sign. But let's be clear, there are no excuses left for Lottich. This is now entirely his roster. NCAA tourney or bust next year. Win and win now, or make a change before we are fully dragged into the muck of long-term mediocrity.
I keep going back to the fact that Lavender was a very solid player for us last year after being a relative nobody at every stop along the way before putting on a Valpo uniform. Seriously, we kept him from going D2 because nobody really wanted him.
Perhaps he was just a guy that truly bought in to what Lottich was selling while many of the others did not.
The question is.... Are all the new faces Lavender type guys? Lavender was not a super athlete, wasn't all that fast, not a great shooter, was an average ball handler, yet he still found ways to make the team better.
Also, we need Lavender type guys that can shoot. Because yeah, that was our biggest problem last year. I don't care how hard the team tries, if they can't hit shots it doesn't matter.
In fact, I would say if Golder decided to return to the team he may find he plays better being surrounded by teammates with a common mission all bought into the goals of the team. Because I like Golder, I think he was negatively influenced by players like Bakari.
Quote from: IndyValpo on April 25, 2019, 12:28:45 PM
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26530279/college-basketball-transfer-rankings-2019-20-2020-21
We should be all in on #10 though that would seem unlikely. A more likely choice is #40 he started at Drake.
I'd be thrilled if we could get the big from Northwestern, a Chicago kid.
If we would land a decent BIG, I could see us having a very interesting season. On paper we're pretty solid except at center.
Hopefully with our last spot we can get someone like the transfer from Northwestern (Benson), Skogman from Milwaukee that we have an offer on the table for, or the kid Prosper who is visiting us.
If we could get anyone of those, I would be very happy and excited for the upcoming season.
Quote from: SanityLost17 on April 25, 2019, 12:33:48 PM
I keep going back to the fact that Lavender was a very solid player for us last year after being a relative nobody at every stop along the way before putting on a Valpo uniform. Seriously, we kept him from going D2 because nobody really wanted him.
Perhaps he was just a guy that truly bought in to what Lottich was selling while many of the others did not.
The question is.... Are all the new faces Lavender type guys? Lavender was not a super athlete, wasn't all that fast, not a great shooter, was an average ball handler, yet he still found ways to make the team better.
Also, we need Lavender type guys that can shoot. Because yeah, that was our biggest problem last year. I don't care how hard the team tries, if they can't hit shots it doesn't matter.
In fact, I would say if Golder decided to return to the team he may find he plays better being surrounded by teammates with a common mission all bought into the goals of the team. Because I like Golder, I think he was negatively influenced by players like Bakari.
Golder isn't coming back from what I hear. He also deleted Valpo basketball from his twitter profile
Quote from: VUBBFan on April 25, 2019, 02:12:36 PM
If we would land a decent BIG, I could see us having a very interesting season. On paper we're pretty solid except at center.
Hopefully with our last spot we can get someone like the transfer from Northwestern (Benson), Skogman from Milwaukee that we have an offer on the table for, or the kid Prosper who is visiting us.
If we could get anyone of those, I would be very happy and excited for the upcoming season.
Are we actually linked to benson by a credible source? The only person I've heard say Benson's name was that one MVC Hoops twitter account.
Quote from: VU2014 on April 25, 2019, 06:55:54 PM
Quote from: SanityLost17 on April 25, 2019, 12:33:48 PM
I keep going back to the fact that Lavender was a very solid player for us last year after being a relative nobody at every stop along the way before putting on a Valpo uniform. Seriously, we kept him from going D2 because nobody really wanted him.
Perhaps he was just a guy that truly bought in to what Lottich was selling while many of the others did not.
The question is.... Are all the new faces Lavender type guys? Lavender was not a super athlete, wasn't all that fast, not a great shooter, was an average ball handler, yet he still found ways to make the team better.
Also, we need Lavender type guys that can shoot. Because yeah, that was our biggest problem last year. I don't care how hard the team tries, if they can't hit shots it doesn't matter.
In fact, I would say if Golder decided to return to the team he may find he plays better being surrounded by teammates with a common mission all bought into the goals of the team. Because I like Golder, I think he was negatively influenced by players like Bakari.
Golder isn't coming back from what I hear. He also deleted Valpo basketball from his twitter profile
I heard Golder was at the softball double header with Indiana State. He didn't last long on a cold windy day, most of the crowd was wearing polar vortex gear, but he did show for a while.
Quote from: bbtds on April 25, 2019, 07:49:13 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on April 25, 2019, 06:55:54 PM
Quote from: SanityLost17 on April 25, 2019, 12:33:48 PM
I keep going back to the fact that Lavender was a very solid player for us last year after being a relative nobody at every stop along the way before putting on a Valpo uniform. Seriously, we kept him from going D2 because nobody really wanted him.
Perhaps he was just a guy that truly bought in to what Lottich was selling while many of the others did not.
The question is.... Are all the new faces Lavender type guys? Lavender was not a super athlete, wasn't all that fast, not a great shooter, was an average ball handler, yet he still found ways to make the team better.
Also, we need Lavender type guys that can shoot. Because yeah, that was our biggest problem last year. I don't care how hard the team tries, if they can't hit shots it doesn't matter.
In fact, I would say if Golder decided to return to the team he may find he plays better being surrounded by teammates with a common mission all bought into the goals of the team. Because I like Golder, I think he was negatively influenced by players like Bakari.
Golder isn't coming back from what I hear. He also deleted Valpo basketball from his twitter profile
I heard Golder was at the softball double header with Indiana State. He didn't last long on a cold windy day, most of the crowd was wearing polar vortex gear, but he did show for a while.
It's hard to even guess what he thinks he's going to get with another program that he didn't already have at Valpo. He's an average shooter, at best. His penetration moves are predictable and easy to stop. I can't imagine many D-1 programs are beating down his door. The more we're learning about how long the coaching staff has been pursuing new recruits for openings "that didn't exist," the more I'm thinking that Golder leaving was a mutual decision. It happens all the time at higher level programs and no one gives it a second thought.
Quote from: VU2014 on April 25, 2019, 06:58:23 PMQuote from: VUBBFan on April 25, 2019, 02:12:36 PMIf we would land a decent BIG, I could see us having a very interesting season. On paper we're pretty solid except at center. Hopefully with our last spot we can get someone like the transfer from Northwestern (Benson), Skogman from Milwaukee that we have an offer on the table for, or the kid Prosper who is visiting us. If we could get anyone of those, I would be very happy and excited for the upcoming season.
Are we actually linked to benson by a credible source? The only person I've heard say Benson's name was that one MVC Hoops twitter account.
That's the source I'm relying on. It is usually very reliable. Think its a long shot that I won't hold my breath on it happening, but I think it would be a good get for us
https://twitter.com/hoops_mvc/status/1120908855456800768
Quote from: wh on April 25, 2019, 08:59:02 PM
Quote from: bbtds on April 25, 2019, 07:49:13 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on April 25, 2019, 06:55:54 PM
Quote from: SanityLost17 on April 25, 2019, 12:33:48 PM
I keep going back to the fact that Lavender was a very solid player for us last year after being a relative nobody at every stop along the way before putting on a Valpo uniform. Seriously, we kept him from going D2 because nobody really wanted him.
Perhaps he was just a guy that truly bought in to what Lottich was selling while many of the others did not.
The question is.... Are all the new faces Lavender type guys? Lavender was not a super athlete, wasn't all that fast, not a great shooter, was an average ball handler, yet he still found ways to make the team better.
Also, we need Lavender type guys that can shoot. Because yeah, that was our biggest problem last year. I don't care how hard the team tries, if they can't hit shots it doesn't matter.
In fact, I would say if Golder decided to return to the team he may find he plays better being surrounded by teammates with a common mission all bought into the goals of the team. Because I like Golder, I think he was negatively influenced by players like Bakari.
Golder isn't coming back from what I hear. He also deleted Valpo basketball from his twitter profile
I heard Golder was at the softball double header with Indiana State. He didn't last long on a cold windy day, most of the crowd was wearing polar vortex gear, but he did show for a while.
It's hard to even guess what he thinks he's going to get with another program that he didn't already have at Valpo. He's an average shooter, at best. His penetration moves are predictable and easy to stop. I can't imagine many D-1 programs are beating down his door. The more we're learning about how long the coaching staff has been pursuing new recruits for openings "that didn't exist," the more I'm thinking that Golder leaving was a mutual decision. It happens all the time at higher level programs and no one gives it a second thought.
I wouldn't go as far as to say it was mutual, since Lottich made Golder the face of the program at media day for the MVC prior to the start of the season. But I have a feeling Lottich knew a lot of players were unhappy and as the season went on that unhappiness grew and spread, much like the average fan unhappiness did.
I do agree that several players who have transferred may find themselves at a lower level D1 program as the game of musical chairs does not end in their favor. I think Smits/Freeman will find good homes and will have good success. Golder is a toss up. No way Bakari finds what he is looking for. Same with Sorolla. Both would do well to land at the best team in lower level league so that they can have a chance to make the NCAA tourney.
Quote from: wh on April 25, 2019, 08:59:02 PM
Quote from: bbtds on April 25, 2019, 07:49:13 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on April 25, 2019, 06:55:54 PM
Quote from: SanityLost17 on April 25, 2019, 12:33:48 PM
I keep going back to the fact that Lavender was a very solid player for us last year after being a relative nobody at every stop along the way before putting on a Valpo uniform. Seriously, we kept him from going D2 because nobody really wanted him.
Perhaps he was just a guy that truly bought in to what Lottich was selling while many of the others did not.
The question is.... Are all the new faces Lavender type guys? Lavender was not a super athlete, wasn't all that fast, not a great shooter, was an average ball handler, yet he still found ways to make the team better.
Also, we need Lavender type guys that can shoot. Because yeah, that was our biggest problem last year. I don't care how hard the team tries, if they can't hit shots it doesn't matter.
In fact, I would say if Golder decided to return to the team he may find he plays better being surrounded by teammates with a common mission all bought into the goals of the team. Because I like Golder, I think he was negatively influenced by players like Bakari.
Golder isn't coming back from what I hear. He also deleted Valpo basketball from his twitter profile
I heard Golder was at the softball double header with Indiana State. He didn't last long on a cold windy day, most of the crowd was wearing polar vortex gear, but he did show for a while.
It's hard to even guess what he thinks he's going to get with another program that he didn't already have at Valpo. He's an average shooter, at best. His penetration moves are predictable and easy to stop. I can't imagine many D-1 programs are beating down his door. The more we're learning about how long the coaching staff has been pursuing new recruits for openings "that didn't exist," the more I'm thinking that Golder leaving was a mutual decision. It happens all the time at higher level programs and no one gives it a second thought.
Seeing how quickly open spots have been filled, its fairly obvious that Lottich was planning to clean house at the end of the season. Out with the malcontents and guys recruited for the Horizon League and in with some MVC level talent.
I'd love to see Jayce Johnson
Barret Benson making a visit to SIU today:
[tweet]1121834412138815488[/tweet]
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on April 25, 2019, 12:31:30 PM
The landing of Zion is a good and hopeful sign. But let's be clear, there are no excuses left for Lottich. This is now entirely his roster. NCAA tourney or bust next year. Win and win now, or make a change before we are fully dragged into the muck of long-term mediocrity.
From worst to 1st in 1 year? Sounds like a good stretch goal, but not an either/or else ultimatum.
Quote from: EddieCabot on April 26, 2019, 09:24:02 AM
Seeing how quickly open spots have been filled, its fairly obvious that Lottich was planning to clean house at the end of the season. Out with the malcontents and guys recruited for the Horizon League and in with some MVC level talent.
We're the spots filled that quickly? I seem to remember that several posters here we're getting impatient that there were still spots open and Lottich was not announcing anything. I think it might have been that announcements, once they were made, came quickly but I don't think the spots were filled that quickly.
Quote from: bbtds on April 27, 2019, 04:29:54 PMQuote from: EddieCabot on April 26, 2019, 09:24:02 AMSeeing how quickly open spots have been filled, its fairly obvious that Lottich was planning to clean house at the end of the season. Out with the malcontents and guys recruited for the Horizon League and in with some MVC level talent.
We're the spots filled that quickly? I seem to remember that several posters here we're getting impatient that there were still spots open and Lottich was not announcing anything. I think it might have been that announcements, once they were made, came quickly but I don't think the spots were filled that quickly.
I wouldn't use this board of a barometer of patience.
To me, it appeared the slots were filled fairly quickly. I thought it obvious that some preliminary work was done which would tie in to the original point about Lottich preparing for an exodus of some sort.
Assuming Micah is likely no longer with the program it frees up another scholarship. That leaves 2 scholarships. What type of player would you guys like the staff to pursue with these scholarships?
My opinion:
I'm holding out hope that Jay returns and offers VU an experienced defensive minded big man and frees up a scholarship for the 2020 class. For the final scholarship I'd like us to pursue a high impact red-shirt transfer or hold onto the scholarship for a high impact mid-season transfer. What do you guys think? The only glaring hole I see is the Center position right now. I think we need to let Sackey and Siggy get the chunk of the minutes at PG and we could play Zion at the 1 in a pinch but he'll most likely play the 2. We're pretty set in the backcourt.
Roster: (no particular order of the depth chart)
1: Sackey (So), Siggy (Fr)
2: Gordon (Jr), Z Morgan (Jr), Stalling (WO So)
3: Fazekas (Sr), Robinson ((Jr) can defend multiple positions & play with multiple lineups), Clay Donovan (Fr)
4: Mileek (Jr), Krikke (Fr), Kiser ((Sr) is more of a SF but Lottich has been forced to play him at PF in the past)
5: Freese-Vilien (Fr)
edited: added Clay Donovan
Quote from: VU2014 on April 28, 2019, 02:34:13 PM
Assuming Micah is likely no longer with the program it frees up another scholarship. That leaves 2 scholarships. What type of player would you guys like the staff to pursue with these scholarships?
My opinion:
I'm holding out hope that Jay returns and offers VU an experienced defensive minded big man and frees up a scholarship for the 2020 class. For the final scholarship I'd like us to pursue a high impact red-shirt transfer or hold onto the scholarship for a high impact mid-season transfer. What do you guys think? The only glaring hole I see is the Center position right now. I think we need to like Sackey and Siggy get the chunk of the minutes at PG and we could play Zion at the 1 in a pinch but he'll most likely play the 2. We're pretty set in the backcourt.
Roster: (no particular order of the depth chart)
1: Sackey (So), Siggy (Fr)
2: Gordon (Jr), Z Morgan (Jr), Stalling (WO So)
3: Fazekas (Sr), Robinson ((Jr) can defend multiple positions & play with multiple lineups)
4: Mileek (Jr), Krikke (Fr), Kiser ((Sr) is more of a SF but Lottich has been forced to play him at PF in the past)
5: Freese-Vilien (Fr)
Unless we find a quality big (no project) like the Northwestern kid or even Skogman, Matt will hold it for the right fit, probably at mid-season. There are still hundreds of kids who haven't found a home. Right now the total transfer list is at 731 and I would guess at least half are homeless. Failing a good big, I would think Matt has to go with Mileek at the 5 coupled with the freshman.
Quote from: vu72 on April 28, 2019, 02:50:04 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on April 28, 2019, 02:34:13 PM
Assuming Micah is likely no longer with the program it frees up another scholarship. That leaves 2 scholarships. What type of player would you guys like the staff to pursue with these scholarships?
My opinion:
I'm holding out hope that Jay returns and offers VU an experienced defensive minded big man and frees up a scholarship for the 2020 class. For the final scholarship I'd like us to pursue a high impact red-shirt transfer or hold onto the scholarship for a high impact mid-season transfer. What do you guys think? The only glaring hole I see is the Center position right now. I think we need to like Sackey and Siggy get the chunk of the minutes at PG and we could play Zion at the 1 in a pinch but he'll most likely play the 2. We're pretty set in the backcourt.
Roster: (no particular order of the depth chart)
1: Sackey (So), Siggy (Fr)
2: Gordon (Jr), Z Morgan (Jr), Stalling (WO So)
3: Fazekas (Sr), Robinson ((Jr) can defend multiple positions & play with multiple lineups)
4: Mileek (Jr), Krikke (Fr), Kiser ((Sr) is more of a SF but Lottich has been forced to play him at PF in the past)
5: Freese-Vilien (Fr)
Unless we find a quality big (no project) like the Northwestern kid or even Skogman, Matt will hold it for the right fit, probably at mid-season. There are still hundreds of kids who haven't found a home. Right now the total transfer list is at 731 and I would guess at least half are homeless. Failing a good big, I would think Matt has to go with Mileek at the 5 coupled with the freshman.
Mileek at the 5 isn't a good solution, imo. He should probably should only be defending the 5 when in a pinch. Interestingly Lottich has said that Krikke could be played as undersized 5 in some of his comments. I just don't like relying so heavily on these freshman bigs as much as we might need to. McMillan badly needs to take the next step in his development. He can't foul guys like he has in the past. Maybe he takes that next step this offseason. I really think the best solution is holding out hope Sorolla doesn't leave. There aren't many quality grad-transfer bigs on the market and competition for them is very high. even high major programs are recruiting many of these lackluster grad-transfer big men because there aren't many big bodies out there.
Quote from: VU2014 on April 28, 2019, 02:34:13 PM
Assuming Micah is likely no longer with the program it frees up another scholarship. That leaves 2 scholarships. What type of player would you guys like the staff to pursue with these scholarships?
My opinion:
I'm holding out hope that Jay returns and offers VU an experienced defensive minded big man and frees up a scholarship for the 2020 class. For the final scholarship I'd like us to pursue a high impact red-shirt transfer or hold onto the scholarship for a high impact mid-season transfer. What do you guys think? The only glaring hole I see is the Center position right now. I think we need to let Sackey and Siggy get the chunk of the minutes at PG and we could play Zion at the 1 in a pinch but he'll most likely play the 2. We're pretty set in the backcourt.
Roster: (no particular order of the depth chart)
1: Sackey (So), Siggy (Fr)
2: Gordon (Jr), Z Morgan (Jr), Stalling (WO So)
3: Fazekas (Sr), Robinson ((Jr) can defend multiple positions & play with multiple lineups)
4: Mileek (Jr), Krikke (Fr), Kiser ((Sr) is more of a SF but Lottich has been forced to play him at PF in the past)
5: Freese-Vilien (Fr)
I don't see Clay listed. If he is indeed a Javonn with more size, that puts all sorts of depth at the 3/4 position.
As I've mentioned before, I believe that Mileek can play the 4 without getting into foul trouble but not the 5. Finding someone 6'10" or taller who can defend a center is the glaring need.
Quote from: humbleopinion on April 28, 2019, 03:24:24 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on April 28, 2019, 02:34:13 PM
Assuming Micah is likely no longer with the program it frees up another scholarship. That leaves 2 scholarships. What type of player would you guys like the staff to pursue with these scholarships?
My opinion:
I'm holding out hope that Jay returns and offers VU an experienced defensive minded big man and frees up a scholarship for the 2020 class. For the final scholarship I'd like us to pursue a high impact red-shirt transfer or hold onto the scholarship for a high impact mid-season transfer. What do you guys think? The only glaring hole I see is the Center position right now. I think we need to let Sackey and Siggy get the chunk of the minutes at PG and we could play Zion at the 1 in a pinch but he'll most likely play the 2. We're pretty set in the backcourt.
Roster: (no particular order of the depth chart)
1: Sackey (So), Siggy (Fr)
2: Gordon (Jr), Z Morgan (Jr), Stalling (WO So)
3: Fazekas (Sr), Robinson ((Jr) can defend multiple positions & play with multiple lineups)
4: Mileek (Jr), Krikke (Fr), Kiser ((Sr) is more of a SF but Lottich has been forced to play him at PF in the past)
5: Freese-Vilien (Fr)
I don't see Clay listed. If he is indeed a Javonn with more size, that puts all sorts of depth at the 3/4 position.
As I've mentioned before, I believe that Mileek can play the 4 without getting into foul trouble but not the 5. Finding someone 6'10" or taller who can defend a center is the glaring need.
Just added Clay to my original post. If Clay has much of a impact as Javon had his freshman season it would be a huge plus. Is Donovan as polished as Javon was coming out high school?
Donovan Clay was Class 4A all-state pick. He is supposed to be a great sign. Max preps has him ranked 198 nationally and 10 in Illinois.
Quote from: humbleopinion on April 28, 2019, 03:57:47 PM
Donovan Clay was Class 4A all-state pick. He is supposed to be a great sign. Max preps has him ranked 198 nationally and 10 in Illinois.
Many of those rankings seem to be based on future potential. It sounds like he has a bright future and was a nice recruiting get but is he ready to immediately make an impact? I just don't think we can hold him to the same standard as what Javon brought to the table last season. It's pretty rare for a freshman to be as impact from the get-go as Javon was. Hopefully he can be, but I just tend to have low expectations from freshman even if I think they can be pretty good players one day.
Quote from: VU2014 on April 28, 2019, 02:59:22 PMMileek at the 5 isn't a good solution, imo
Totally agree but, we may not have a very good option. Remember that at the beginning of last season Matt saw enough from Mileek to start him over Jay and that Butler kid. Given as you have said, how difficult it will be to find a big at this point, we need to be very grateful for Matt's recruiting chops if in fact they can land one.
I'm annoyed with people continuing to have high hopes for mileek this upcoming season. The only reason people do that is because there's been some rumors that he has the highest ceiling by chef imo. He is literally the worst player on this team. He cant even stay in the game, he does absolutely nothing. Why people put that fact aside and continue to act like he will produce is beyond me. I'd throw a party if he transferred. There is no reason to believe he will magically turn from the worst player to a stud in the next two years. He is another bust by lottich. Our 4 and 5 spots are the biggest issue by far. If we don't find a PF or center before next season, we will struggle big time.
I'm annoyed that the only thing you've brought the table here in 26ish months is 12 posts of complaining.
Mileek could be a very good contributor on this team....IF he learned how to play without fouling. That hasn't happened yet.
Mileek has shown potential. I recall a few games where he was doing really well when he stayed out of foul trouble. Unfortunately, it hasn't been often that he's stayed out of foul trouble.
Mileek couldn't guard without fouling his first two years, but he showed some ability to step out and hit the three. Vashil couldn't touch the ball without turning it over his first two years but he showed some ability to block shots. In year three, Vashil learned to at least hang on to the ball. Maybe Mileek will learn to defend a bit without fouling in year three. If he does we might have something. If he doesn't and we don't add a defensive minded 5 we will struggle.
Quote from: nkvu on April 28, 2019, 10:14:50 PM
Mileek couldn't guard without fouling his first two years, but he showed some ability to step out and hit the three. Vashil couldn't touch the ball without turning it over his first two years but he showed some ability to block shots. In year three, Vashil learned to at least hang on to the ball. Maybe Mileek will learn to defend a bit without fouling in year three. If he does we might have something. If he doesn't and we don't add a defensive minded 5 we will struggle.
Well said NKVU. I'm not giving up on Mileek. It's not uncommon for guys to turn the corner their Junior year. He definitely has shown the potential. To say he hasn't shown any potential is dumb. It really just comes down to not fouling as much as he has his first two seasons
Quote from: VU2014 on April 28, 2019, 10:33:37 PMQuote from: nkvu on April 28, 2019, 10:14:50 PMMileek couldn't guard without fouling his first two years, but he showed some ability to step out and hit the three. Vashil couldn't touch the ball without turning it over his first two years but he showed some ability to block shots. In year three, Vashil learned to at least hang on to the ball. Maybe Mileek will learn to defend a bit without fouling in year three. If he does we might have something. If he doesn't and we don't add a defensive minded 5 we will struggle.
Well said NKVU. I'm not giving up on Mileek. It's not uncommon for guys to turn the corner their Junior year. He definitely has shown the potential. To say he hasn't shown any potential is dumb. It really just comes down to not fouling as much as he has his first two seasons
Vashil was a freakish athlete with very little experience playing basketball growing up. Mileek is a big body, with a decent shot that one would have to assume has played basketball most of his life. I hope he makes some strides, but expecting to do what Vashil did or even comparing them is a bit of a stretch. Mileek is a good role player that may shine here or there in games, but I don't expect him to be a key piece of the puzzle.
There have been many good D-1 teams that play successfully without a big/5 guy. There is no reason we cannot do the same without Mileek playing in the middle.
Quote from: AlecPeters101 on April 28, 2019, 09:04:34 PM
I'm annoyed with people continuing to have high hopes for mileek this upcoming season. The only reason people do that is because there's been some rumors that he has the highest ceiling by chef imo. He is literally the worst player on this team. He cant even stay in the game, he does absolutely nothing. Why people put that fact aside and continue to act like he will produce is beyond me. I'd throw a party if he transferred. There is no reason to believe he will magically turn from the worst player to a stud in the next two years. He is another bust by lottich. Our 4 and 5 spots are the biggest issue by far. If we don't find a PF or center before next season, we will struggle big time.
I think your chef tank is mileeking. I believe McMillan has a foul problem but if he can cure that he will be an explosive guy who can turn games with unexpected production.
Quote from: bbtds on April 29, 2019, 11:13:33 AM
Quote from: AlecPeters101 on April 28, 2019, 09:04:34 PM
I'm annoyed with people continuing to have high hopes for mileek this upcoming season. The only reason people do that is because there's been some rumors that he has the highest ceiling by chef imo. He is literally the worst player on this team. He cant even stay in the game, he does absolutely nothing. Why people put that fact aside and continue to act like he will produce is beyond me. I'd throw a party if he transferred. There is no reason to believe he will magically turn from the worst player to a stud in the next two years. He is another bust by lottich. Our 4 and 5 spots are the biggest issue by far. If we don't find a PF or center before next season, we will struggle big time.
I think your chef tank is mileeking. I believe McMillan has a foul problem but if he can cure that he will be an explosive guy who can turn games with unexpected production.
The problem is evidence doesn't show that he has a better handle on how to stay out of foul trouble at the end of year-2 than he did at the beginning of year-1.
Neither did Vashil....Mileek was also playing a different position for much of year 2 which probably didn't help.
Sorry, I don't post a lot. So when I do it tends to be something that gets on my nerves. That's the only thing that motivates me to post. Besides, isn't that what a forum is for? I obviously hit a soft spot for mileek.
Barret Benson has committed to Southern Illinois.
Quote from: AlecPeters101 on April 29, 2019, 02:42:01 PM
Sorry, I don't post a lot. So when I do it tends to be something that gets on my nerves. That's the only thing that motivates me to post. Besides, isn't that what a forum is for? I obviously hit a soft spot for mileek.
Fan forums remind me of a horrible movie (Private Parts).
"
Researcher: The average radio listener listens for eighteen minutes a day. The average Howard Stern fan listens for - are you ready for this? - an hour and twenty minutes.
Kenny: How could this be?
Researcher: Answer most commonly given: "I want to see what he'll say next."
Kenny: : All right, fine. But what about the people who hate Stern?
Researcher: Good point.
The average Stern hater listens for two and a half hours a day.I'd imagine that times of strife (Bryce leaving the program and our recent downturn in the new conference) has us glued in greater numbers to the fan forum than most of the 20 win seasons ever did.
Just looking at the Forum Stats, the stat for Most Online Ever was 100 unique users (March 04 2017) at a time when we had just lost our HC. In addition, there are always far more "readers" than "posters" as a stat on the forum.
Not that anyone cares but I read the forum for a long time before deciding to dip my toes in. You can thank OklahomaMick for shaming me into contributing! I guarantee despite all his proclamations that he is still "reading" this forum and just not contributing as well. He is a Lottich hater, so undoubtedly he reads for "2.5 hours a day" . . . haha
Haha I've been reading this forum for the past 5 years almost daily. I don't necessarily hate lottich I'm just not all in on him. Our offense has been stagnant every season since he's become our coach. I'm a huge vu fan not just some angry troll. But I do get angry at some opinions/things here and there and that's when I decide to post. This forum seems like if you don't post here all the time/tend to agree with everything the majority says and you're not well recognized by all the posters you must be some angry troll or some hater.
It's official. Probably best for all parties.
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/1123422601714515969
Major losses to Xfers this year, with Smits going to Butler I'll say this utlimately shows where pride and tradition of bball is headed
Mark L will probably sit on his hands and wait until two years too late to fire Lottich.
It is a reeeeeeeeeal shame Valpo did not have a better AD in '05-'12 range.
Quote from: valpofb16 on April 30, 2019, 10:14:54 PM
Major losses to Xfers this year, with Smits going to Butler I'll say this utlimately shows where pride and tradition of bball is headed
Mark L will probably sit on his hands and wait until two years too late to fire Lottich.
It is a reeeeeeeeeal shame Valpo did not have a better AD in '05-'12 range.
If Paul and Todd were pretty much acknowledging Coach Lottich is coaching for his job next season it's probably the case. Tbh, I'm fine with giving Lottich next season with a blank slate. But the arrow needs to be clearly pointing up for the program after next season. It's not a good look to fire a coach after 4 years and it can affect future coaches wanting to take the job, if it doesn't work out with Lottich. It really is a prove it year for Lottich.
If only it was like that all the time.
Quote from: VUBBFan on April 30, 2019, 10:49:10 PMhttps://twitter.com/ExampleSports3/status/1123430984509284353
Now fill the two remaining spots with centers or power forwards. :)
At the end of the day, this young man went to college and graduated with his degree. Congratulations and best wishes. Now, transfer to a state where marijuana is legal and he may have a great final 2 seasons!
Quote from: elephtheria47 on May 01, 2019, 06:46:44 AMAt the end of the day, this young man went to college and graduated with his degree. Congratulations and best wishes.
:thumbsup: I'm hoping his back pain is permanently gone. If so he still has a future at a D-1 mid major level.
Quote from: elephtheria47 on May 01, 2019, 06:46:44 AMNow, transfer to a state where marijuana is legal and he may have a great final 2 seasons!
At best marijuana use is still a major training violation. Wherever his new home might be I doubt if Micah will be able to go bird watching in the woods without someone demanding a urine sample from every time he hides behind a tree. :o
I think at this point D2 or NAIA make much more sense for Bradford.
Quote from: valpofb16 on April 30, 2019, 10:14:54 PMMajor losses to Xfers this year, with Smits going to Butler I'll say this utlimately shows where pride and tradition of bball is headed Mark L will probably sit on his hands and wait until two years too late to fire Lottich. It is a reeeeeeeeeal shame Valpo did not have a better AD in '05-'12 range.
Smits going to Butler says nothing about the program in my eyes. Sucks because, well its Butler, but he made a calculated decision, one I may have made myself. He had a good enough year to be looked at by major programs and has eligibility to play immediately. If he were to stay, at best Valpo turns it around next year and he is still just a piece of the puzzle on a good mid major program. At worst Valpo has a rebuilding year and he is stuck at a losing mid-major program again. If he wants to have any shot at a NBA career, he needed to jump up to a larger division where he could start and that plays a system where his talents can shine. That program just happened to be Butler (which is also near his home town, so win-win for him). There are other reasons to feel down about the program. Smits going to a "Rival" (in quotes because hard to be a rival when we dont actually play them) is not one of them.
Quote from: IndyValpo on May 01, 2019, 09:05:56 AMI think at this point D2 or NAIA make much more sense for Bradford.
He is still talented enough to play D1, but that will be a hard sell on his part to get a program to use a scholarship on him. Injury prone, not great stats last time he played and the two arrests. I could see a lower level D1 program taking a flyer on him because he still has two years eligibility left and can play right away.
Quote from: vuny98 on May 01, 2019, 09:17:56 AM
Quote from: IndyValpo on May 01, 2019, 09:05:56 AMI think at this point D2 or NAIA make much more sense for Bradford.
He is still talented enough to play D1, but that will be a hard sell on his part to get a program to use a scholarship on him. Injury prone, not great stats last time he played and the two arrests. I could see a lower level D1 program taking a flyer on him because he still has two years eligibility left and can play right away.
Isn't that the type of player that Kampe always used to recruit? :)
Quote from: Valpo89 on May 01, 2019, 10:13:51 AM
Quote from: vuny98 on May 01, 2019, 09:17:56 AM
Quote from: IndyValpo on May 01, 2019, 09:05:56 AMI think at this point D2 or NAIA make much more sense for Bradford.
He is still talented enough to play D1, but that will be a hard sell on his part to get a program to use a scholarship on him. Injury prone, not great stats last time he played and the two arrests. I could see a lower level D1 program taking a flyer on him because he still has two years eligibility left and can play right away.
Isn't that the type of player that Kampe always used to recruit? :)
No Kampe recruited guys who committed domestic/sexual assault. Bradford is too much of a choir boy for him lol
So when guys transfer that we don't want to transfer we're firing the coach and AD and when guys transfer that we're practically begging to transfer do so we're firing the coach and AD?
Can we get through 3 or 4 posts without firing the coach and AD for virtually any reason possible considering neither is going to happen prior to, at least, after next season?
Matt's coaching next year. It is what it is. Like it or not. Same vanilla offense? Let's hope not. Give the reigns over to an assistant maybe? Idk. Kind of like college football - or pros for that matter. Offensive and defensive coordinators. Both of whom can focus their attention on one part of the game. Matt can coach D. On offense, he looks at a little notecard or something and calls a routinely boring and predictable offense. Give the responsibility over to someone. Don't have someone on staff who can handle it? Then get rid of someone and bring a guy or girl in.
Very cryptic
https://twitter.com/aintujavon/status/1123661740531752966?s=21
https://twitter.com/nwioren/status/1123667167407431681?s=21
The offense is going to be different next year, simply because there won't be a need to have a 7-footer on the court the whole game. Guessing it opens things up a bit and leads to more 5-out offense.
Before this gets off the rails, I don't know anything. I saw the tweet and it gave me pause for a moment, as I'm sure it did for the rest who saw it.
I'm not sure what's to interpret. He's made a decision and presumably will announce soon. Would still be shocked if it's not NW, unless Illinois stepped up late.
Yeah that looked like a standard tweet kinda hyping up his announcement of where he's going next.
Quote from: JD24 on May 01, 2019, 10:48:25 AM
So when guys transfer that we don't want to transfer we're firing the coach and AD and when guys transfer that we're practically begging to transfer do so we're firing the coach and AD?
Can we get through 3 or 4 posts without firing the coach and AD for virtually any reason possible considering neither is going to happen prior to, at least, after next season?
Micah's dealer... ;)
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/TvFCUSiRUfeIU/giphy.gif)
Valpo was rumored to have interest.
https://twitter.com/Bo_Buckets/status/1123734779374055424
Quote from: valpofb16 on April 30, 2019, 10:14:54 PM
Major losses to Xfers this year, with Smits going to Butler I'll say this utlimately shows where pride and tradition of bball is headed
Mark L will probably sit on his hands and wait until two years too late to fire Lottich.
It is a reeeeeeeeeal shame Valpo did not have a better AD in '05-'12 range.
This is not a loss.
Can we get through 3 or 4 posts without firing the coach and AD?
No, not until the coach is fired.
Quote from: oklahomamick on May 01, 2019, 09:20:38 PM
Can we get through 3 or 4 posts without firing the coach and AD?
No, not until the coach is fired.
The winnowing is over, Mick.
It's over? Want to put a wager on it that it's not? 10 games into the season I bet there will several on the forum calling for the job.....I will be patient.
Continuously calling for him to be fired is not what I would call "being patient."
Last post I brought up coach's job was a month ago.....I won't say it again until 10 games in. I promise. But if more fans, alumni, and donors were louder about wanting Lotich fired.....AD might have to listen. But I will take your approach and be mute. Change will surely happen if everyone is mute. :-X :thumbsup:
Quote from: oklahomamick on May 02, 2019, 09:57:26 AM
Last post I brought up coach's job was a month ago.....I won't say it again until 10 games in. I promise. But if more fans, alumni, and donors were louder about wanting Lotich fired.....AD might have to listen. But I will take your approach and be mute. Change will surely happen if everyone is mute. :-X :thumbsup:
The fans (here) have been vocal in giving Matt another year. Just because they don't agree with you doesn't make them mute.
My mistake, I didn't know I was in the minority on Lottich's approval rating and job status.
Well, when he fails next year, the ones who decided to support him with another should go mute....Until that day comes, I will not bring it up again.
Quote from: oklahomamick on May 02, 2019, 11:03:29 AM
My mistake, I didn't know I was in the minority on Lottich's approval rating and job status.
Well, when he fails next year, the ones who decided to support him with another should go mute....Until that day comes, I will not bring it up again.
If you believe Matt should be fired now, in essence you are predicting another dismal season ahead. Correct? And, if that's the case, can we at least agree that we all hope you're wrong (you included)?
Quote from: vu72 on May 02, 2019, 10:40:40 AMThe fans (here) have been vocal in giving Matt another year.
I am resigned to his continued employment. Nothing more!
If we were to word a poll asking if this was the best solution I sense that Matt would lose in a close vote. The totals for Mark might be a bit uglier. He announced his decision before I would have been done with my research. That really wobbled my confidence in the independence of his thinking.
WH, I hope I'm wrong. I'm wrong a lot, but on this one I highly doubt it. Keep supporting the wrong guy and make things worse....I suppose
VU72, you suggest I'm in the minority on firing Lottich. I bet it's close as justducky mentioned.
Again, when we cross that bridge and I'm correct, I will call you out.
Valpo will never fire as they can't afford to eat a salary. Vandy had an Alum picked up the tab on Bryce's salary. It is what it is. Time to move on and see what happens. Other than Smits, I don't see anyone pounding on our transfer doors for a scholarship.
Unbelievable news?
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/1124018208397250562
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1124019110864654337
Holy Cow.
That's incredibly interesting and I can't wait to hear more about the underlying story. Guess I was wrong to be dismissive of the Todd comment and the tweet 2014 highlighted earlier.
Happy to be wrong, that's for sure.
So we go from the conversation on if ML should or should not be fired, in part because of all the transfers and feeling he lost the team... to getting arguably the best player from last year (at least most promising future) to recommit to the team, after he said he was going to leave... If that's not a strong vote of confidence I don't know what is.
Jaume Sorrolla
Crusader nation turns it's lonely eyes to you
Looking forward to the extension Coach and AD have just earned.
A job well done!!!!
lol. From fired to extension in 15 minutes.
Let's see how all this translates to wins before we do either.
Sounds to me like JFL likes the new guys and is happy to see that some others left the program.
We will be better next year even if we don't find another big man.
Go with FV, Krikke, McMillan at the 5, because we are going to play a 4 guard lineup and we are stacked at the guard position (assuming Clay/Robinson/Gordon/Lorange/Morgon are as good as advertised and Fazekas/Javon can stay healthy)
Seriously don't see how Kiser/McMillan get much playing time with this roster....again...IF observations are correct about the new guys. Which, you never know.
This is fantastic...and unlike the other guys who have left I'm happy that it was reported that he really didn't want to leave. That leaves us with 1 open scholarship I believe. Would like to see a 5th year big personally.
I'm excited with the group of players and hopeful (maybe foolishly so) that we will see some up tempo offense.
I agreed to not talk about Lottich coaching status. But I need to say one more thing. Sign Lottich to an extension....
Obviously I'm kidding. SanityLost said it best, Javon must not have liked a couple that left and now see's Valpo's team as more enjoyable and possibly being more successful.
Or he wasn't getting the interest from the big schools as he thought he would. Which I don't understand why he wouldn't.
I wonder if we will see a Golder or Sorolla return...one scholarship open. I wouldn't think Golder would come back, but Sorolla maybe.
Let the speculation begin:
Do you suppose that the departure of Micah had something to do with his decision to stay?
Why would Micah's departure affect Javon's decision to come back? Micah really was a very limited person on the team, almost absent. Didn't travel or train with the team.
What is Golder's status? I haven't seen or heard anything on him. I actually think today is his birthday according to his twitter.
I think if anything it was putting his toes into the big water while still having a positive feeling about Valpo helped him truly realize how much more opportunity he will have if he stays. He hadn't written Valpo off but maybe thought he "should" leave and then was better able to realize no, this was the right choice. Especially since he committed so early he might have just needed to see what it was like out there. He also may have realized sitting a year just was not what he wanted to do.
I'm quite content with Golder being gone. As much as I could be excited with his athleticism, I don't feel he represented the name on the uniform well.
Yeah if we had to pick someone to stick around Jay would be my pick because we need help at his position and his lack of offense would hopefully be less of hinderance if some of our guards and forwards can pick up the scoring. Plus having him in the post and Javon also on defense would be a big plus
Holy Cow! I look away for a couple of hours to get some work done, and the whole world changes. I won't let that happen again! :)
This has been a truly wild off-season. :crazy:
Quote from: VUBBFan on May 02, 2019, 01:31:31 PM
Unbelievable news?
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/11240182
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1124019110864654337
https://giphy.com/gifs/crying-omg-kid-3ohzdMk3uz9WSpdTvW
Wildcat my @ss!
I knew talking to him wouldn't hurt. (just kidding)
I hope a few posters on this board have learned a little at least. But I suppose someone will find something wrong with JFL's return to the fold. It should also enlighten some folks about the problems a few guys caused last season and the job Matt L has done in regrouping the troops and overcome some major roadblocks last year. Enough of the negative! It appears that ML was a better coach than many thought, especially in the manner in which he handled the personnel problems of last season. Welcome back Javon! GO VALPO!
Freeman essentially takes Bradford's scholarship. I call that a huge win! My excitement is returning!
Quote from: valpo64 on May 02, 2019, 03:53:36 PM
I hope a few posters on this board have learned a little at least. But I suppose someone will find something wrong with JFL's return to the fold. It should also enlighten some folks about the problems a few guys caused last season and the job Matt L has done in regrouping the troops and overcome some major roadblocks last year. Enough of the negative! It appears that ML was a better coach than many thought, especially in the manner in which he handled the personnel problems of last season. Welcome back Javon! GO VALPO!
I was going to root on Valpo regardless of the outcome, but I have to say that so little of what took place since March 15th has anything to do with his coaching ability. He still has to have the players he puts on the court execute and win.
He's still largely not proven he can win. I'm excited for 2019 again though...boy it was rough sitting on the side line as this thing unfolded. Until a couple weeks ago we were a side show...now we are just a 9th place team with a breath of fresh air.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on May 02, 2019, 04:31:49 PMHe's still largely not proven he can win. I'm excited for 2019 again though...boy it was rough sitting on the side line as this thing unfolded. Until a couple weeks ago we were a side show...now we are just a 9th place team with a breath of fresh air.
Not really picking on FieldGoodie05's comment because many others have said the same thing, but why does everyone dismiss Matt's first year at the helm. In my mind winning 24 games and only loosing 9 after thinking we would potentially have Carter back, the mess with Skara, the loss of Jubril and then the coup de gras with the injury to Alec, was a pretty good indicator that with the right type of players the guy can coach. Frankly, if Alec doesn't go down he has the potential to have as good a season as Bryce had the year before, even after the Jubril debacle. Don't come back and say that anybody could have coached that team because if that were true then Bryce is not the coaching savant we have made him out to be. Maybe Bryce is a great recruiter, but then I guess we will find out what kind of evaluator and recruiter Matt is with this new group.
Wow. Great news. I like Freeman, a lot. Hes a baller. This is gonna be a fun season.
ML did a great job retooling the team. When you're bad, which we were, gotta make changes, and he did. He now has a lot of his players that he recruited to run his system, and guys who dont want to be here arent. We have talent. We will see how it all unfolds.
Did I say how happy I am Freeman came back.
According Scott Burgess Valpo is showing interest in Former 4-star recruit Tim Finke. Transferring from GCU. He's a shooter. He knows the Peters family
https://twitter.com/scottybscout/status/1114560052789227525?s=21
This would be a huge get... Hope it happens...
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 02, 2019, 07:09:02 PM
This would be a huge get... Hope it happens...
The fit makes sense too with Fazekas and Kiser set to graduate after this season
Staying put: Javon Freeman steps back from transfer plans, decides to remain at Valparaiso University
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/post-tribune/sports/ct-ptb-spt-mens-basketball-valparaiso-javon-freeman-st-050319-story,amp.html
Quote from: VU2014 on May 02, 2019, 06:44:30 PM
According Scott Burgess Valpo is showing interest in Former 4-star recruit Tim Finke. Transferring from GCU. He's a shooter. He knows the Peters family
https://twitter.com/scottybscout/status/1114560052789227525?s=21
Do we need more tall G on this roster in two seasons?
ROBBIE WEINSTEIN: With Freeman-Liberty back, Valpo is one player away
https://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/valparaiso-university/robbie-weinstein-with-freeman-liberty-back-valpo-is-one-player/article_f283d992-413f-5a0f-b8cc-c47517172fc9.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1
Here is what I know...Dildy stayed in close contact with the family after he left. Basically said if Javon isn't happy we have a place for him here at NU (kinda shady but this is big time college hoops). Javon and the family listened. They saw what happened to their program (transfer exodus) and he talked with Illinois. At Illinois he'd be 7-8 man off the bench plus they are going to recruit over him as they target 150 ranked players on in. Plus he'd have to sit a year and who knows what Underwood brings in. Here, at Valpo, he can show off his skill set wayyyyyyyy better than playing subpar minutes in the Big10 and always worrying about being recruited over as he plays a position that is very attractive to high Major programs. I'm glad he is staying for a myriad of reasons and the most is he stays with us, Valpo U.
He visited NU saw grass ain't greener and you will get looks playing for "little" Valpo U. I think his uncle, Marcus Liberty, played a big part in his staying as when I saw him and talked woth him he was always on high on his nephew and Valpo U. He's an Illinois alum and played in the Big10. Honestly, I think he talked his sister and nephew off the ledge and told them this is where he should be and is needed the most. There is some credence that he looked, visited NU. But in the end realized I get serious minutes here and if I build on what I've done this can be a special place.
Now others leaving may have played a role too. He or his family will never acknowledge and why? All we know he is staying and we just got better for it. #GoValpo
And if you look at his twitter post his uncle, Marcus, handle give me liberty Tells him now that's over, let's go to work Kid!!! That says volumes. Like the second comment down.
Quote from: ValpoDad89 on May 02, 2019, 09:59:54 PM
Here is what I know...Dildy stayed in close contact with the family after he left. Basically said if Javon isn't happy we have a place for him here at NU (kinda shady but this is big time college hoops). Javon and the family listened. They saw what happened to their program (transfer exodus) and he talked with Illinois. At Illinois he'd be 7-8 man off the bench plus they are going to recruit over him as they target 150 ranked players on in. Plus he'd have to sit a year and who knows what Underwood brings in. Here, at Valpo, he can show off his skill set wayyyyyyyy better than playing subpar minutes in the Big10 and always worrying about being recruited over as he plays a position that is very attractive to high Major programs. I'm glad he is staying for a myriad of reasons and the most is he stays with us, Valpo U.
He visited NU saw grass ain't greener and you will get looks playing for "little" Valpo U. I think his uncle, Marcus Liberty, played a big part in his staying as when I saw him and talked woth him he was always on high on his nephew and Valpo U. He's an Illinois alum and played in the Big10. Honestly, I think he talked his sister and nephew off the ledge and told them this is where he should be and is needed the most. There is some credence that he looked, visited NU. But in the end realized I get serious minutes here and if I build on what I've done this can be a special place.
Now others leaving may have played a role too. He or his family will never acknowledge and why? All we know he is staying and we just got better for it. #GoValpo
An excellent post! I hope you start posting more going forward.
Really good story of the last month and a half.
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/1124167222950334465
Thanks WH and don't lose the positivity brother. I know 2 guys pretty well, one better than the other, that coach lower level AAU ball for some good Chicago based programs. The one texted me around 3:45 today saying Freeman is staying put. I was like what? I couldn't talk to him until later tonight as I started a new gig yesterday and we were going out for a "team" dinner tonight.
He did visit NU and was not enamored. Both mom and uncle had concerns about the transfers there as well as the direction Collins has going and uncle Marcus, due to Illinois ties, reached out to them. They didn't like what they heard there either but he wanted to play closer to home for mom to see him. Sometimes the devil you know is far better than the devil you don't.
I think people would be surprised by the level and amount of teams showing interest in Jay right now. If we could bring Jay back it would be pretty big for the team next season. We won't find a better experienced 7-footer on the grad-transfer market. I really hope he comes back.
Quote from: VU2014 on May 03, 2019, 12:42:44 AM
I think people would be surprised by the level and amount of teams showing interest in Jay right now. If we could bring Jay back it would be pretty big for the team next season. We won't find a better experienced 7-footer on the grad-transfer market. I really hope he comes back.
Most of our guards/small forwards should all be really good on defense. Sackey/Freeman/Morgan are all very aggressive defenders. Clay was said to be a defensive minded guy and he is a tall guard. Robinson was a very good defender at St. Joe. Not sure about Gordon/Lorange/Krikke. Fazekas is average.
But for the most part we have the ability to play great defense and take some of the pressure off not having a true defensive center.
Part of me thinks Lottich doesn't want a true 7 foot post and wants to play a PF at the center position... I think he wants Krikke and McMillan to be undersized centers that stretch the D and can hit the 3.
Thats right people... We may actually be able to run an offense. I am not sure Sorolla is the answer, part of me really wants to see how Lottich runs the offense without him/smits.
Welcome to college basketball today.
Glad to hear Javon is returning. This will be a dig in defensive team. I still want to know who our knock down 3 shooters are to ease the congestion in the middle so the slashers can find some room. Ryan is still a question mark because of injuries, and we still need more solid offensive rebounding. You can play 5 out, but someone has to be dependable from outside when you run pick and roll, and brush screens in a motion or weave. If we could land Skogman can get Sorolla back, this then becomes a contending team in MVC for not just this year but a window opens up. We have to look more attractive to him as well.
Skogman just committed to Buffalo but I believe both Gordon and Robinson are expected to have decent 3 percentages as well as two of the transfers.
Wow! You have to wonder what a guy like Zion Morgan is thinking this morning. The guard rotation just got a lot more crowded. We are now DEEP, VERY DEEP!! :o
Thanks 05, fixed it. Probably should have read all the threads from last night. Do not understand going to Buffalo. But I'll get to see him play in the MAC. Really nice kid and family.
Quote from: vu72 on May 03, 2019, 08:50:36 AM
Wow! You have to wonder what a guy like Zion Morgan is thinking this morning. The guard rotation just got a lot more crowded. We are now DEEP, VERY DEEP!! :o
Zion was kinda billed as the Javon replacement, but seems like he could just as easily be billed as the Lavender replacement.
This is why we are going to play a 4 guard lineup and shift Krikke, McMillan, Kiser, FV, and occasionally Fazekas all to the "center" position and play it by committee. Plenty of room for Javon/Gordon/Robinson/Morgan/Clay/Fazekas if we go to a 4 guard lineup. Throw fresh guys out there to play aggressive and double team the post.
1. A few injuries won't kill us this year like it killed us last year
2. Plenty of fouls to give at the "center" position against poor FT shooting big men
3. We should press or half court trap this year for 40 minutes. Sub early and often and run and gun on offense off turnovers.
4. Yes, by playing undersized guys at the 5 we will give up some points, but I think the added offense and the fact that our guards are good defenders will more than make up for teams big men scoring more post points. We will just have to be quick on double teams and rotations out of double teams.
Quote from: vu72 on May 03, 2019, 08:50:36 AM
Wow! You have to wonder what a guy like Zion Morgan is thinking this morning. The guard rotation just got a lot more crowded. We are now DEEP, VERY DEEP!! :o
One benefit will be that Javon won't need to play 35+ minutes like he was at the end of last season. He may even be splitting time with Clay, who was first team all state in Illinois, is 4 inches taller than Javon and is a much better shooter.
Quote from: vu72 on May 03, 2019, 08:50:36 AM
Wow! You have to wonder what a guy like Zion Morgan is thinking this morning. The guard rotation just got a lot more crowded. We are now DEEP, VERY DEEP!! :o
You never know. Zion was the last addition and may have been the last mental straw that broke the camel's back to change Javon's mind to come back to Valpo.
This offseason flipped in a hurry. Javon was always the one whose (previously announced but no longer valid) departure was the one that really was a kick to the gut and read like a bad verdict on the direction of the program. The grad transfer market is what it is, and the Sam Haanpa situation has always left me expecting our Euro guys to head home for a pro contract at the first opportunity, but one of our most talented freshmen in years choosing to bail on top of that? That was gonna be hard to recover from.
Now, ML still has to go out and win, which he has not proven he can do yet with his own roster. But I'm way more optimistic about that possibility than I was just 24 hours ago.
I strongly recommend everyone checking out Sylvester Ogbonda a 6-10 C grad transfer from Georgia Tech. He is from Nigeria, Strong Christian, from Nigeria, and Valedictorian of his high school class. Looks very athletic.
Quote from: tiny707 on May 03, 2019, 01:33:05 PM
I strongly recommend everyone checking out Sylvester Ogbonda a 6-10 C grad transfer from Georgia Tech. He is from Nigeria, Strong Christian, from Nigeria, and Valedictorian of his high school class. Looks very athletic.
Every champion was once a contender that refused to finish up at Georgia Tech.Adrian!!!!!!--Sly Ogbone
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tad3NI68dKA
Quote from: SanityLost17 on May 03, 2019, 09:56:36 AMZion was kinda billed as the Javon replacement, but seems like he could just as easily be billed as the Lavender replacement.
I'm still sorting out our guard surplus and the more I look at Morgan the better I'm liking what he brings. He will sponge minutes from our 6 other guys in the mix for floor time at the 1, 2 and 3. Predicting playing time will be difficult but Sakey will likely see a reduced but better targeted role while Lottich might limit Freeman to 33 minutes because that should be all we need. :thumbsup: As a group the bunch should offer equal rebounding, better experience, defense, shooting and abilities to attack the rim. They still could be only average from 3 but going from near bottom to middle of pack is a significant step forward.
Quote from: SanityLost17 on May 03, 2019, 09:56:36 AM3. We should press or half court trap this year for 40 minutes. Sub early and often and run and gun on offense off turnovers.
If all these new guards are as good as their indications and they stay injury free--- then maybe this wouldn't be a bad idea.
I think next year we're looking at a lot of 4 guard lineups and what should be or maybe better said, could be, a very good defensive team. I might even consider going Nolan Richardson or Huggy Bear on teams. Of course that's more of an attitude than simple strategy.
Lottich may have to figure out how to get Siggy in the lineup if his shot is as good as advertised.
Quote from: justducky on May 03, 2019, 05:36:45 PM
Quote from: SanityLost17 on May 03, 2019, 09:56:36 AM3. We should press or half court trap this year for 40 minutes. Sub early and often and run and gun on offense off turnovers.
If all these new guards are as good as their indications and they stay injury free--- then maybe this wouldn't be a bad idea.
Didn't Shaka Smart change things with "40 minutes of chaos" at VCU (or was it ODU?)? It was in VA anyway. Could we do the same? I'd love to see that.
Quote from: VULB#62 on May 03, 2019, 09:59:32 PM
Quote from: justducky on May 03, 2019, 05:36:45 PM
Quote from: SanityLost17 on May 03, 2019, 09:56:36 AM3. We should press or half court trap this year for 40 minutes. Sub early and often and run and gun on offense off turnovers.
If all these new guards are as good as their indications and they stay injury free--- then maybe this wouldn't be a bad idea.
Didn't Shaka Smart change things with "40 minutes of chaos" at VCU (or was it ODU?)? It was in VA anyway. Could we do the same? I'd love to see that.
Well, Virginia is a commonwealth and it is the "Old Dominion" state but VCU was where S(c)haka "Khan" (Out)Smart was coach.
Jordan Ash to Wright State.
https://twitter.com/valpo_hoops/status/1126625824399069184?s=21
Now up to 813 transfers in D1. I didn't think it would make it to 800 but a bunch have decided recently. Not since 2014 have there been lees than 800. If we get Sorolla back we will be at 3,
Which is very average in today's world. :(
I don't see Sorolla returning if he indeed is graduating. I would think the D1 college market for grad transfer bigs is strong. Either he tries it elsewhere for a year or heads back to a pro career in Europe is my guess.
Hoping we find a defensive oriented PF/C 6-8 to 6-10 who is a strong rebounder and can get his scoring done inside around the basket. We have enough perimeter guys and need a bigger body with experience. Either a juco or grad transfer works to give our 6-10 freshman recruit time to adjust and learn the college game.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
Southern Illinois is now up to five transfers. With five seniors and a grad student on their 2018-19 roster, it will be a totally rebuilt team for next year.
I wonder what some of our Negative, 'get rid of whomever" posters would say if they were SIU fans. That situation would be hard to take, and their coach is already gone.
I'm one of "get rid of the coach not whomever" and I can't speak for the others but I would say the SIU program held on to a lame coach for too many years and therefore will feel the negative consequences for several years. It will be difficult for SIU to get back where they used to be. Not to mention the difficulties the university is having. SIU hoops program will be at the bottom for a long time.
Wow, reading Oklahomamick's take on SIU could almost be the same said for VU. I hope i am wrong -
Correct. The problem with SIU is that they waited too long to make the move. And I personally think they will be at the bottom of the conference. For one year. Mullins has as good of a pedigree as you could hope to get to our level, and I would be willing to bet he turns them around very quickly.
I hope it doesn't come to this....but when I'm correct I will be coming after Valpo64 and a couple others. You have lost any credibility you may have had when it comes to college hoops and this program.
Quote from: oklahomamick on May 10, 2019, 02:08:23 PM
I hope it doesn't come to this....but when I'm correct I will be coming after Valpo64 and a couple others. You have lost any credibility you may have had when it comes to college hoops and this program.
I imagine that I will be one of those that don't agree with your "sky is falling" scenario. Maybe you would feel better if you read more of the board from Matt's first year. Here you go... Lottich's first year (https://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?action=search2;params=eJw9zkkOwyAMQNG7dNONFyENTW-DHIMCFUME7hCJwxfaqDu_L9ky6idGMrqeq6inWgxmsrxvpoWxheAirh3zMHTi-0chv15y3xxhhgsImEDCFW4gJhCyX7PppSiFzRvuSz09lrshVin6_Sgpc5ucVqGsh5V2uTUs9P-p0SdmR_YDTUVBNQ..;start=30)
Quote from: FWalum on May 10, 2019, 06:45:14 PM
Quote from: oklahomamick on May 10, 2019, 02:08:23 PM
I hope it doesn't come to this....but when I'm correct I will be coming after Valpo64 and a couple others. You have lost any credibility you may have had when it comes to college hoops and this program.
I imagine that I will be one of those that don't agree with your "sky is falling" scenario. Maybe you would feel better if you read more of the board from Matt's first year. Here you go... Lottich's first year (https://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?action=search2;params=eJw9zkkOwyAMQNG7dNONFyENTW-DHIMCFUME7hCJwxfaqDu_L9ky6idGMrqeq6inWgxmsrxvpoWxheAirh3zMHTi-0chv15y3xxhhgsImEDCFW4gJhCyX7PppSiFzRvuSz09lrshVin6_Sgpc5ucVqGsh5V2uTUs9P-p0SdmR_YDTUVBNQ..;start=30)
Just reading through some of the old posts. Where has guys like agibson been the last few months? MIA. Need to get some these great contributors back the board
Quote from: oklahomamick on May 10, 2019, 02:08:23 PM
I hope it doesn't come to this....but when I'm correct I will be coming after Valpo64 and a couple others. You have lost any credibility you may have had when it comes to college hoops and this program.
Mick, regardless of how you mean this, there is no place for this kind of dialog on this board. Please rethink.
Golder may have found a landing spot closer to his Portland home.
https://twitter.com/happeninghoops/status/1127033500736065536
Quote from: VUBBFan on May 10, 2019, 09:23:08 PM
Golder may have found a landing spot closer to his Portland home.
https://twitter.com/happeninghoops/status/1127033500736065536
Washington State has 6 or 7 transfers this off season I believe
Quote from: VULB#62 on May 10, 2019, 08:26:12 PM
Quote from: oklahomamick on May 10, 2019, 02:08:23 PM
I hope it doesn't come to this....but when I'm correct I will be coming after Valpo64 and a couple others. You have lost any credibility you may have had when it comes to college hoops and this program.
Mick, regardless of how you mean this, there is no place for this kind of dialog on this board. Please rethink.
I'd not take it too seriously, he's a passionate guy that only means he plans on gloating if he's (for once) found correct. Trust me, when we went to VU he mostly ate crow 🤷🏻♂️
Geez, that would be a bad move for Marcus, to go somewhere for his last season, where he is thought of as the 8th/9th guy, and more of an energy guy.
Quote from: valpotx on May 11, 2019, 04:24:25 AMGeez, that would be a bad move for Marcus, to go somewhere for his last season, where he is thought of as the 8th/9th guy, and more of an energy guy.
Yeah. I thought that kind of strange as well.
Quote from: VULB#62 on May 10, 2019, 08:26:12 PM
Quote from: oklahomamick on May 10, 2019, 02:08:23 PM
I hope it doesn't come to this....but when I'm correct I will be coming after Valpo64 and a couple others. You have lost any credibility you may have had when it comes to college hoops and this program.
Mick, regardless of how you mean this, there is no place for this kind of dialog on this board. Please rethink.
Oh grow up and cut the PC nonsense. smdh
Quote from: Just Sayin on May 11, 2019, 09:50:21 AMQuote from: VULB#62 on May 10, 2019, 08:26:12 PMQuote from: oklahomamick on May 10, 2019, 02:08:23 PMI hope it doesn't come to this....but when I'm correct I will be coming after Valpo64 and a couple others. You have lost any credibility you may have had when it comes to college hoops and this program.
Mick, regardless of how you mean this, there is no place for this kind of dialog on this board. Please rethink.
Oh grow up and cut the PC nonsense. smdh
I think the need for a poster to grow up here is misplaced since it belongs with mr toughguy poster.
"I'm coming after you!" ::)
Ok pal. You do that. We're all waiting for it.
Quote from: JD24 on May 11, 2019, 10:47:40 AM
Quote from: Just Sayin on May 11, 2019, 09:50:21 AMQuote from: VULB#62 on May 10, 2019, 08:26:12 PMQuote from: oklahomamick on May 10, 2019, 02:08:23 PMI hope it doesn't come to this....but when I'm correct I will be coming after Valpo64 and a couple others. You have lost any credibility you may have had when it comes to college hoops and this program.
Mick, regardless of how you mean this, there is no place for this kind of dialog on this board. Please rethink.
Oh grow up and cut the PC nonsense. smdh
I think the need for a poster to grow up here is misplaced since it belongs with mr toughguy poster.
"I'm coming after you!" ::)
Ok pal. You do that. We're all waiting for it.
Like I said. PC crap. We all knew what he meant.
::)
Maybe I should have said
"I'm not going to forget about it when I'm right and you are wrong....."
Or
"I'm going to call you out"
First I doubt I can beat anyone up. Secondly I'm not going to do it over a difference of opinion (even though I'm right and time will tell).
I will go back and delete if it makes you feel better.
When Lottich leaves valpo its not going to because he took a big contract at p5 like our last two coaches. You keep believing and when the day comes that his contract has expired (and we try to rebuild like southern Illinois) I will be coming after you I mean call you out that you were wrong.
Quote from: JD24 on May 11, 2019, 10:47:40 AM
Quote from: Just Sayin on May 11, 2019, 09:50:21 AMQuote from: VULB#62 on May 10, 2019, 08:26:12 PMQuote from: oklahomamick on May 10, 2019, 02:08:23 PMI hope it doesn't come to this....but when I'm correct I will be coming after Valpo64 and a couple others. You have lost any credibility you may have had when it comes to college hoops and this program.
Mick, regardless of how you mean this, there is no place for this kind of dialog on this board. Please rethink.
Oh grow up and cut the PC nonsense. smdh
I think the need for a poster to grow up here is misplaced since it belongs with mr toughguy poster.
"I'm coming after you!" ::)
Ok pal. You do that. We're all waiting for it.
I'm not sure what's more annoying, the ingrown nose hair in my left nostril or the lack of substantive topics on this forum during the off-season.
Quote from: oklahomamick on May 11, 2019, 12:36:50 PMMaybe I should have said "I'm not going to forget about it when I'm right and you are wrong....." Or "I'm going to call you out" First I doubt I can beat anyone up. Secondly I'm not going to do it over a difference of opinion (even though I'm right and time will tell). I will go back and delete if it makes you feel better. When Lottich leaves valpo is not going to because he took a big contract at p5 like our last two coaches. You keep believing and when the day comes that his contract has expired (and we try to rebuild like southern Illinois) I will be coming after you I mean call you out that you were wrong.
We' shakin'. We're shakin'. ;D
Ya - I checked the message board to see if there's any updates on transfers. Haven't been on in awhile. But, alas - haven't missed a beat. Those who question Matt as the leader of this team at this time - are still roasted and ridiculed.
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on May 12, 2019, 08:46:12 AM
Ya - I checked the message board to see if there's any updates on transfers. Haven't been on in awhile. But, alas - haven't missed a beat. Those who question Matt as the leader of this team at this time - are still roasted and ridiculed.
"Victim playing (also known as playing the victim, victim card, or self-victimization) is the fabrication of victimhood for a variety of reasons such as to justify abuse of others, to manipulate others, a coping strategy, or attention seeking."
There are no victims here. When players started to announce they were leaving, and the list continued to grow, there were those who immediately called for heads to roll. That's was their opinion and that was fine. Unfortunately, some didn't stop there. They had to belittle anyone who disagreed, saying they obviously didn't care about winning, they needed to personally call out LaBarbara and Lottich, call for their resignation, etc., etc. Then the tables began to turn. It became obvious that Matt was fully prepared for an exodus and had been actively recruiting new players, which he subsequently signed. Things were beginning to look up. Suddenly out of the blue, Javon reverses course and we start talking about being 1 big man away from possibly competing for a conference championship. Now it was the former group of Matt supporters turn to crow a little. And suddenly, the former Matt haters are all offended? If you want to call people out (I've done my share over the year), expect to be called out. People have long memories when you make it personal. Hey, I've had guys dig up posts I wrote 2 years earlier and smack me around with them. I just try to give them their due and laugh it off. Don't be so dramatic.
Quote from: wh on May 12, 2019, 10:16:18 AM
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on May 12, 2019, 08:46:12 AM
Ya - I checked the message board to see if there's any updates on transfers. Haven't been on in awhile. But, alas - haven't missed a beat. Those who question Matt as the leader of this team at this time - are still roasted and ridiculed.
"Victim playing (also known as playing the victim, victim card, or self-victimization) is the fabrication of victimhood for a variety of reasons such as to justify abuse of others, to manipulate others, a coping strategy, or attention seeking."
There are no victims here. When players started to announce they were leaving, and the list continued to grow, there were those who immediately called for heads to roll. That's was their opinion and that was fine. Unfortunately, some didn't stop there. They had to belittle anyone who disagreed, saying they obviously didn't care about winning, they needed to personally call out LaBarbara and Lottich, call for their resignation, etc., etc. Then the tables began to turn. It became obvious that Matt was fully prepared for an exodus and had been actively recruiting new players, which he subsequently signed. Things were beginning to look up. Suddenly out of the blue, Javon reverses course and we start talking about being 1 big man away from possibly competing for a conference championship. Now it was the former group of Matt supporters turn to crow a little. And suddenly, the former Matt haters are all offended? If you want to call people out (I've done my share over the year), expect to be called out. People have long memories when you make it personal. Hey, I've had guys dig up posts I wrote 2 years earlier and smack me around with them. I just try to give them their due and laugh it off. Don't be so dramatic.
I'm still on the fence with this current coaching staff. On paper they can recruit, in real world "wins" matter....so that's a big TBD.
Just so guys like Golden and Oklahoma are aware, others too are dissatisfied. Truthfully their craziness in posting takes the brunt of the glass "permanently" half full types and guys like me can just smile in the background.
For what it's worth, the middle ground is only established once the outer limits are tested and found too extreme. I'd not silence them, after all this is a forum to post opinions sprinkled in with some facts.
P.S. My weakness and where I'm unrelenting is with those that ignore reality in favor of eternal optimism. That's my weakness and unfortunately I can be a bit harsh with those types (as witnessed in the past and probably again in the future).
Let's keep sprinkling in some facts each week to get some of us through the lack of "watchable" summer sports!!!
I'm wondering if there is another signing or if it is getting too late. I looked back and saw that Eron was signed on May 18 so I guess we still have waiting to do.
I hope the naysayers (myself included right now) are completely wrong and the tables turn for this team. I'd love to see a complete turn around and successful 2019-2020. If so, I will welcome getting roasted and called out for being completely wrong. However, at this point, the naysayers have been more right than wrong.
Quote from: vu72 on May 12, 2019, 12:03:53 PMI'm wondering if there is another signing or if it is getting too late. I looked back and saw that Eron was signed on May 18 so I guess we still have waiting to do.
When your anticipating something, time seems to go so slowly. Last year we didn't fill our last two spots until July. Robinson 7/9 and Lavender 7/18. So I guess it's not too late
Sometimes you just got to be patient. I for one, am going crazy waiting for the last puzzle piece to fall so we know what we got for next year. :coffeetime:
Quote from: VUBBFan on May 12, 2019, 12:19:13 PM
Quote from: vu72 on May 12, 2019, 12:03:53 PMI'm wondering if there is another signing or if it is getting too late. I looked back and saw that Eron was signed on May 18 so I guess we still have waiting to do.
When your anticipating something, time seems to go so slowly. Last year we didn't fill our last two spots until July. Robinson 7/9 and Lavender 7/18. So I guess it's not too late
Sometimes you just got to be patient. I for one, am going crazy waiting for the last puzzle piece to fall so we know what we got for next year. :coffeetime:
Agreed VUBBFan. I feel like this has been somewhat of a strange year for the transfer market. A lot of coaching staffs were waiting to make offers to kids till they could see if the NCAA was going to pass the new grad-transfer rule, which would have impacted their long-term roster construction plans (even if they wouldn't have went into affect this offseason).
I think there are plenty of interesting unsigned transfers on the market. I think the staff is being very particular with that last scholarship. There are dozens of kids still entering the transfer portal.
A little Taoist philosophy (and I studied Taoism briefly at Valpo!):
A Chinese farmer gets a horse, which soon runs away. A neighbor says, "That's bad news." The farmer replies, "Good news, bad news, who can say?"
The horse comes back and brings another horse with him. Good news, you might say.
The farmer gives the second horse to his son, who rides it, then is thrown and badly breaks his leg.
"So sorry for your bad news," says the concerned neighbor. "Good news, bad news, who can say?" the farmer replies.
In a week or so, the emperor's men come and take every able-bodied young man to fight in a war. The farmer's son is spared.
Good news, of course.
----------------------------------------------
I made initial comments about the massive turnover being indicative of major problems in the program and that the degree of turnover indicates poor performance by the senior person. This, of course, is a generalization and there are exceptions. I can see possible good news or bad news about the number of players that signed, though I do see Freeman coming back as a positive indicator. None of these new players really seemed to be well known which could be a negative indicator, but (of course) there have been great finds of unknown talent and hidden potential by many teams over the years.
Whether all of this is good news or bad news ... who can say right now?
What does this say about the Coaching staffs trust level in their young PGs Sackey and Siggy? I'm not as concerned about the level of where the kid is coming from but instead that the coaches feel the need to have 3 PGs on one roster next season. Maybe they don't trust the youth. The coaches know this roster better than any of us but it just seems a little odd to me. Maybe they have more faith in the frontcourt than most of us do.
That last scholarship is still sitting out there.
https://twitter.com/mymshowcase/status/1128464951037788161?s=21
Quote from: VU2014 on May 15, 2019, 06:54:44 PM
What does this say about the Coaching staffs trust level in their young PGs Sackey and Siggy? I'm not as concerned about the level of where the kid is coming from but instead that the coaches feel the need to have 3 PGs on one roster next season. Maybe they don't trust the youth. The coaches know this roster better than any of us but it just seems a little odd to me. Maybe they have more faith in the frontcourt than most of us do.
That last scholarship is still sitting out there.
https://twitter.com/mymshowcase/status/1128464951037788161?s=21
It sounds like he just committed to a JUCO for next season, so he wouldn't be on Valpo's roster until the following season.
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on May 12, 2019, 08:46:12 AM
Ya - I checked the message board to see if there's any updates on transfers. Haven't been on in awhile. But, alas - haven't missed a beat. Those who question Matt as the leader of this team at this time - are still roasted and ridiculed.
As they should be. It's the same argument and Matt has been legitimized more by one possible transfer staying put and some recruiting finds. When the pendulum swings the other way and your argument is the same you expose yourself to more criticism.
One of my favorite student-athletes in a long time. Exciting, a great kid and played his heart out every time.
Sad to see him go but I'm rooting for him.
https://twitter.com/thereal_mg3/status/1129007483706576897?s=21
https://twitter.com/thereal_mg3/status/1129053101313413120?s=21
I am sad to see Markus go as well but we have transfers eligible and in place to pick up the slack.
As far as PG is concerned, it is the most paramount position in today's college game. I know that the NBA has influenced "fluid" positioning but college is still a bit different. Different clock, both time and shot, halves instead of quarters which make it a "shorter" game, playing teams with different styles (I.e. UNC versus Virginia). PG excellence, especially those that can distribute, create and shoot present mismatches and set tempo for the offense. They are the firsthand line of attack after a shot to stop ball. To me, every good program needs at least 3 as they expend a TON of energy. Now it's up to Matt to equate minutes but if you have 3 that are competent, or in the very least competent in some of the 3 disciplines (shooting, distributing and / or defense) you utilize those resources.
And Mick, while it pains me to say this as they are a fellow MVC member, SIU will be back under Mullins. Stud when he played there which means he has some leniency from a fan / admin POV. Assistant HC (and lead recruiter) to a FF team less than 2 years ago and his father runs the Illinois Wolves AAU Program which has increased their Talent muscle in the last few years especially. He will have that program back in short order. But isn't that good for all???
#YouwannaBeTheBestBEATTheBest
Quote from: VU2014 on May 16, 2019, 06:09:21 PM
One of my favorite student-athletes in a long time. Exciting, a great kid and played his heart out every time.
Sad to see him go but I'm rooting for him.
https://twitter.com/thereal_mg3/status/1129007483706576897?s=21
https://twitter.com/thereal_mg3/status/1129053101313413120?s=21
Gone because he's accepted a scholarship elsewhere?
OR
Gone because we aren't allowing him back? (Don't think it's this one, but I'm unsure)
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on May 16, 2019, 07:43:55 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on May 16, 2019, 06:09:21 PM
One of my favorite student-athletes in a long time. Exciting, a great kid and played his heart out every time.
Sad to see him go but I'm rooting for him.
https://twitter.com/thereal_mg3/status/1129007483706576897?s=21
https://twitter.com/thereal_mg3/status/1129053101313413120?s=21
Gone because he's accepted a scholarship elsewhere?
OR
Gone because we aren't allowing him back? (Don't think it's this one, but I'm unsure)
Heard he could be PAC12 bound. Closer to home and a P5 stage.
Just a wild thought that I'm going to throw out there is what if Valpo pursued Isaiah Brock (former OU PF/C)? Uber athletic, good rebounder, great shot blocker, tendency to foul. He was playing at the D2 level last I heard, but man would he fit on this roster. Also love the back story of being mature and a military veteran. I think he'd have one year of eligibility left. I don't think he's in the transfer portal but that is the type of guy I'd love to see land at Valpo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y27jB_a7Pdc
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on May 16, 2019, 07:43:55 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on May 16, 2019, 06:09:21 PM
One of my favorite student-athletes in a long time. Exciting, a great kid and played his heart out every time.
Sad to see him go but I'm rooting for him.
https://twitter.com/thereal_mg3/status/1129007483706576897?s=21
https://twitter.com/thereal_mg3/status/1129053101313413120?s=21
Gone because he's accepted a scholarship elsewhere?
OR
Gone because we aren't allowing him back? (Don't think it's this one, but I'm unsure)
Gone because he graduated...where he winds up is secondary...
Quote from: VU2014 on May 16, 2019, 08:07:28 PMHeard he could be PAC12 bound. Closer to home and a P5 stage.
After the ankle injury Marcus looked more like a Horizon League player than one that could play PAC12. If he suddenly leaps to the big stage and delivers then somebody really needs to answer some basic questions about his injury, recovery, and maybe his attitude ???. Nothing about his late season play made much sense if he was at full strength as he contended.
I am very close to adding Golder to my bad memory list unless someone can flesh out the mitigating factors for his decline. Somebody should step up and defend him if I am getting something wrong.
Quote from: justducky on May 16, 2019, 09:11:06 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on May 16, 2019, 08:07:28 PMHeard he could be PAC12 bound. Closer to home and a P5 stage.
After the ankle injury Marcus looked more like a Horizon League player than one that could play PAC12. If he suddenly leaps to the big stage and delivers then somebody really needs to answer some basic questions about his injury, recovery, and maybe his attitude ???. Nothing about his late season play made much sense if he was at full strength as he contended.
I am very close to adding Golder to my bad memory list unless someone can flesh out the mitigating factors for his decline. Somebody should step up and defend him if I am getting something wrong.
Golder's ankle wasn't right for most of the latter half of the season. Just because people say they are healthy doesn't mean they really are. He gutted through injuries when he probably should have rested the ankle. If you remember Golder went down with the injury and they rested him and he came back too early and tweaked it again if I remember correctly
I really think the true answer for Markus is in the phrase "has trouble playing with others." How many fast breaks do you remember that you muttered the words "Pass the ball, Markus!"
Unfortunately that attitude of not trusting your teammates is part of Markus' me-first generation but can't happen on a basketball court on a team trying to win conference tourney games.
Quote from: bbtds on May 17, 2019, 04:33:38 AM
I really think the true answer for Markus is in the phrase "has trouble playing with others." How many fast breaks do you remember that you muttered the words "Pass the ball, Markus!"
Unfortunately that attitude of not trusting your teammates is part of Markus' me-first generation but can't happen on a basketball court on a team trying to win conference tourney games.
I also have that nagging feeling that he wasn't going to be the teammate that VU needed with last years roster. He might be a good person, I'll never know.
As much as I liked his fire and athleticism, he was regressing. Maybe his ceiling was achieved in Year 1. We cannot forget he was not injured for the first 65% of the season.
His ability to dribble and shoot is not PAC12 and was 50% percentile in MVC.
But man alive he could energize with his dunks!!!
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on May 17, 2019, 06:18:31 AM
Quote from: bbtds on May 17, 2019, 04:33:38 AM
I really think the true answer for Markus is in the phrase "has trouble playing with others." How many fast breaks do you remember that you muttered the words "Pass the ball, Markus!"
Unfortunately that attitude of not trusting your teammates is part of Markus' me-first generation but can't happen on a basketball court on a team trying to win conference tourney games.
I also have that nagging feeling that he wasn't going to be the teammate that VU needed with last years roster. He might be a good person, I'll never know.
As much as I liked his fire and athleticism, he was regressing. Maybe his ceiling was achieved in Year 1. We cannot forget he was not injured for the first 65% of the season.
His ability to dribble and shoot is not PAC12 and was 50% percentile in MVC.
But man alive he could energize with his dunks!!!
29% from three point
43% FG which is decent
Had something like 0.65 A/TO
Rebounding will def be missed, between Smits/Lavender/Golder we lose around 15 rpg
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on May 17, 2019, 06:24:16 AMQuote from: FieldGoodie05 on May 17, 2019, 06:18:31 AMQuote from: bbtds on May 17, 2019, 04:33:38 AMI really think the true answer for Markus is in the phrase "has trouble playing with others." How many fast breaks do you remember that you muttered the words "Pass the ball, Markus!" Unfortunately that attitude of not trusting your teammates is part of Markus' me-first generation but can't happen on a basketball court on a team trying to win conference tourney games.
I also have that nagging feeling that he wasn't going to be the teammate that VU needed with last years roster. He might be a good person, I'll never know. As much as I liked his fire and athleticism, he was regressing. Maybe his ceiling was achieved in Year 1. We cannot forget he was not injured for the first 65% of the season. His ability to dribble and shoot is not PAC12 and was 50% percentile in MVC. But man alive he could energize with his dunks!!!
29% from three point 43% FG which is decent Had something like 0.65 A/TO Rebounding will def be missed, between Smits/Lavender/Golder we lose around 15 rpg
The main issue in my mind is we needed him to be "the guy" last year and that's not the role he plays best. He is high energy, plays well in transition, but not a take over the game, create is own shot in half court set type of player. Especially when our go to move was throw the ball into the post and wait around to see what happens. That takes Golder out of his game and rhythm. A different team dynamic/no injury and Golder could have shined again liked we expected him to. Just didn't pan out that way. I'll forgive the end of year decline because the team was a mess and he was not 100%, so can't put that all on him.
He is not at the Conference of Champions level as a starter.
Quote from: usc4valpo on May 17, 2019, 11:03:25 AMHe is not at the Conference of Champions level as a starter.
So you're saying he's starter material in the Pac-12?
I'm a big fan of Markus the person and the player. Is he the perfect player? No, but he's the type of kid you want on your team. He plays hard, brings energy off the bench, good defender, athletic, can shoot well from deep (when he's right), etc. He's probably never going to be the best player on a good team but he's a very valuable bench player/6th man on a good team. I really hope lights it up next season. He's a great kid and an exciting player. He'll be playing pro ball after he finishes school somewhere in europe.
Quote from: VU2014 on May 17, 2019, 07:29:26 PM
I'm a big fan of Markus the person and the player. Is he the perfect player? No, but he's the type of kid you want on your team. He plays hard, brings energy off the bench, good defender, athletic, can shoot well from deep (when he's right), etc. He's probably never going to be the best player on a good team but he's a very valuable bench player/6th man on a good team. I really hope lights it up next season. He's a great kid and an exciting player. He'll be playing pro ball after he finishes school somewhere in europe.
I'm a big fan of players that play for Valpo. Later Golder.
Good luck to him. I was also in the camp yelling 'pass the damn ball' on fast breaks when he would take it 1 on 2 or 3 with someone else open, and also got tired of his showboating/mouthing off to opponents. Appreciate his time at Valpo, but this is for the best, in regards to team synergy.
Today is graduation. Presuming that Jaume is going to be walking across the stage (or at least will have earned his diploma), I would have to believe that we would have heard if he plans to stick around. Perhaps someone closer to the situation knows if he, like other grads, is packing up belongings and vacating his apartment.
My hope at this point is that the coaches have some skilled giant from some far-flung locale who has decent English and has not attracted the attention of the power conferences.
I likely missed them but didnt see Smits or sorolla name mentioned in the program. Maybe its only if they're walking?
Edit: found sorolla name mentioned in the graduation program.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on May 16, 2019, 07:43:55 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on May 16, 2019, 06:09:21 PM
One of my favorite student-athletes in a long time. Exciting, a great kid and played his heart out every time.
Sad to see him go but I'm rooting for him.
https://twitter.com/thereal_mg3/status/1129007483706576897?s=21
https://twitter.com/thereal_mg3/status/1129053101313413120?s=21
Gone because he's accepted a scholarship elsewhere?
OR
Gone because we aren't allowing him back? (Don't think it's this one, but I'm unsure)
Or both.
What, no unconditional love for the administration, coach and the coaching staff Markus, just UL for the fans and community?
Quote from: elephtheria47 on May 19, 2019, 12:50:41 PM
I likely missed them but didnt see Smits or sorolla name mentioned in the program. Maybe its only if they're walking?
Edit: found sorolla name mentioned in the graduation program.
I believe reading that Smits had already graduated last December.
Quote from: EddieCabot on May 19, 2019, 03:02:10 PMQuote from: elephtheria47 on May 19, 2019, 12:50:41 PMI likely missed them but didnt see Smits or sorolla name mentioned in the program. Maybe its only if they're walking? Edit: found sorolla name mentioned in the graduation program.
I believe reading that Smits had already graduated last December.
Yes, he did graduate in December and has been in post grad classes since then.
Bakari was the only one who walked today, sorolla and markus didnt show up but were listed to have graduated. Glad these young men earned their valpo diploma.
Quote from: elephtheria47 on May 19, 2019, 05:58:45 PMBakari was the only one who walked today, sorolla and markus didnt show up but were listed to have graduated. Glad these young men earned their valpo diploma.
One other.
https://twitter.com/barrybradford3/status/1130252876071153665
I'm still holding out hope that Sorrolla reconsiders and comes back next season. The grad transfer market for big guys is drying up quickly. I hope the staff have contacted Eric Hamilton (UNCG) or Kelvin Jones (Idaho St.), as both look like they would be good additions.
Quote from: EddieCabot on May 20, 2019, 12:58:28 PMI'm still holding out hope that Sorrolla reconsiders and comes back next season. The grad transfer market for big guys is drying up quickly. I hope the staff have contacted Eric Hamilton (UNCG) or Kelvin Jones (Idaho St.), as both look like they would be good additions.
Looking at Kelvin Jones there may be an attitude problem either with him or his father towards coaching staffs in his career (maybe not IDK).
The one transfer I think looks good for Valpo is 6'10" Sylvester Ogbonda from Georgia Tech. Seems to be of good high character. Don't know anything, but on paper looks like a good fit. Have not hear if Valpo has contacted or is interested in him.
Yes, VUBBFan Sylvester Ogbonda is who we need. Hope coaches are on this one!
Quote from: truth219 on March 08, 2019, 02:32:40 PM
Luckily nobody on this team is irreplaceable. We have no stars...we don't even have a fan favorite...maybe John kiaser. I love Valpo but i find it hard to support this coach and most of the players....i just want to see improvements. I want to see development. I want to see plays getting ran successfully. If our current roster returns minus Dion and we develope like we have..i see us in the lower half of the conference next season.
There you go. Lottich somehow didn't let that happen and yet was chastised for it. I know we have a big unknown team going into next season but the possibilities are so much better.
https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1130983595638689792
Don't we play Nevada next year? Would find it pretty funny if he went there and lost to valpo.
He's a below average rebounder, way below average on offense, decent man to man defender, not a good help defender. I'd welcome him on the opponents team.
Quote from: valpolaw on May 21, 2019, 07:15:22 PMDon't we play Nevada next year? Would find it pretty funny if he went there and lost to valpo.
Possibility we could play Cincinnati at the paradise jam tournament.
Quote from: M on May 21, 2019, 07:56:44 PM
He's a below average rebounder, way below average on offense, decent man to man defender, not a good help defender. I'd welcome him on the opponents team.
Oren stated on Twitter that a return to Valpo is still a possibility ... comments like this make me wonder if that's a positive or a negative?
His experience would be a positive...I'm no expert just call it how I see it. He is good vs his man, but he did not deter teams from attacking the paint. Always was a step slow on help defense and when that guy did miss his man was left to get an offensive rebound (maybe not entirely his fault)....if he leaves no biggie if he stays that's fine too (it's only a year and we could use his 5 fouls at that position).
Right now I'd take him to give our freshman big some time to develop. I would hope Matt et al are out looking hard for a replacement. I would like nothing more than J deciding to come back only to find the spot filled. Right now we are a backup plan and that doesn't sit well with me.
I still believe if Derrik and Jaume had gone to different schools and was each's primary C for 4 years, Jay would have had a much better and more well rounded career, all else being equal.
Well this one we won't get. I really would have liked him at Valpo. Don't know if we had a chance or interest. On to the next prospect.
https://twitter.com/iaresylvester/status/1131263293656580096
I think that if Sorolla came back to VU and was healthy for the entire season we would see a big improvement to his overall game. Remember that he had a severe ankle injury at the start of the season which obviously hampered his game for quite some time when he came back. I didn't think he looked right until the last third of the conference season when Smits started having the back issue and Jay played a lot more. Really feel that his offensive game would improve as the main 5.
Why would those two schools be excited about someone that averaged 4 ppg and a few rebounds each game at Valpo? He would be a backup or third string big man. He is best going to another true mid-major, or staying at Valpo.
Quote from: valpotx on May 22, 2019, 09:55:24 PM
Why would those two schools be excited about someone that averaged 4 ppg and a few rebounds each game at Valpo? He would be a backup or third string big man. He is best going to another true mid-major, or staying at Valpo.
You can't teach size. He's a one year commitment not tying up scholarships and there is room for the upside if he remains healthy.
The transfer market for big men is very thin and that's why all schools are willing to "reach" for players they might not normally recruit as guys coming out of HS.
Quote from: VU2014 on May 23, 2019, 07:16:50 AMQuote from: valpotx on May 22, 2019, 09:55:24 PMWhy would those two schools be excited about someone that averaged 4 ppg and a few rebounds each game at Valpo? He would be a backup or third string big man. He is best going to another true mid-major, or staying at Valpo.
You can't teach size. He's a one year commitment not tying up scholarships and there is room for the upside if he remains healthy. The transfer market for big men is very thin and that's why all schools are willing to "reach" for players they might not normally recruit as guys coming out of HS.
Any one looking to have Sorolla on their team, us included, is not looking for scoring, but rather a big body in the middle that can play defense. Any points you get out of him is a bonus.
Quote from: vuny98 on May 23, 2019, 08:43:20 AM
Quote from: VU2014 on May 23, 2019, 07:16:50 AMQuote from: valpotx on May 22, 2019, 09:55:24 PMWhy would those two schools be excited about someone that averaged 4 ppg and a few rebounds each game at Valpo? He would be a backup or third string big man. He is best going to another true mid-major, or staying at Valpo.
You can't teach size. He's a one year commitment not tying up scholarships and there is room for the upside if he remains healthy. The transfer market for big men is very thin and that's why all schools are willing to "reach" for players they might not normally recruit as guys coming out of HS.
Any one looking to have Sorolla on their team, us included, is not looking for scoring, but rather a big body in the middle that can play defense. Any points you get out of him is a bonus.
Is it really too much to ask that we find someone who can make an uncontested layup, score off an offensive rebound instead of cowering with the ball directly under the basket before throwing it to someone 25 feet away, and take up a little space on defense?
Quote from: wh on May 23, 2019, 10:38:47 AMQuote from: vuny98 on May 23, 2019, 08:43:20 AMQuote from: VU2014 on May 23, 2019, 07:16:50 AMQuote from: valpotx on May 22, 2019, 09:55:24 PMWhy would those two schools be excited about someone that averaged 4 ppg and a few rebounds each game at Valpo? He would be a backup or third string big man. He is best going to another true mid-major, or staying at Valpo.
You can't teach size. He's a one year commitment not tying up scholarships and there is room for the upside if he remains healthy. The transfer market for big men is very thin and that's why all schools are willing to "reach" for players they might not normally recruit as guys coming out of HS.
Any one looking to have Sorolla on their team, us included, is not looking for scoring, but rather a big body in the middle that can play defense. Any points you get out of him is a bonus.
Is it really too much to ask that we find someone who can make an uncontested layup, score off an offensive rebound instead of cowering with the ball directly under the basket before throwing it to someone 25 feet away, and take up a little space on defense?
That's crazy talk. Get your fantasy land dreams off this message board.
I suppose that Jethro heard that we have a scholarship open. Could there be any other explanation for him transfering? ;)
http://verbalcommits.com/players/jethro-tshisumpa-mbiya
Quote from: humbleopinion on May 24, 2019, 03:19:34 PMI suppose that Jethro heard that we have a scholarship open. Could there be any other explanation for him transfering? ;) http://verbalcommits.com/players/jethro-tshisumpa-mbiya
This would be a dream come true get. We all dream don't we and Disney says dreams do come true.
The longer this open season on transfers continues, the more desperate transferees are going to be to find a new home. For one thing, some number of vacancies are being filled by high school recruits (think about the 3 we signed), others by JC players, and yet others will remain unfilled. This creates a game of musical chairs for the original transfer pool, with extra chairs being pulled all along the way. The end result is a lot of players who originally announced their intent to transfer are not going to find a place to land.
Quote from: VUBBFan on May 24, 2019, 04:56:04 PM
Quote from: humbleopinion on May 24, 2019, 03:19:34 PMI suppose that Jethro heard that we have a scholarship open. Could there be any other explanation for him transfering? ;) http://verbalcommits.com/players/jethro-tshisumpa-mbiya
This would be a dream come true get. We all dream don't we and Disney says dreams do come true.
Great shot blocker, but he wasn't a good rebounder at Arizona State, and then was on an awful defensive rebounding team last year in Mississippi State and didn't play a single minute. Honestly I think Sorolla would be a better option as a big, but not sure how likely it is that he might come back.
Quote from: IrishDawg on May 25, 2019, 01:55:44 PMand then was on an awful defensive rebounding team last year in Mississippi State and didn't play a single minute.
Do you have any more information on that? How a player could go from being a 4-star recruit ranked the #3 center by Rivals to being glued to the bench for an entire season is a mystery. I didn't see any articles explaining it.
Quote from: humbleopinion on May 25, 2019, 04:39:55 PM
Quote from: IrishDawg on May 25, 2019, 01:55:44 PMand then was on an awful defensive rebounding team last year in Mississippi State and didn't play a single minute.
Do you have any more information on that? How a player could go from being a 4-star recruit ranked the #3 center by Rivals to being glued to the bench for an entire season is a mystery. I didn't see any articles explaining it.
Looks to me like he redshirted last season. It appears he is a graduate transfer with 2 years of eligibility remaining.
Quote from: humbleopinion on May 25, 2019, 04:39:55 PM
Quote from: IrishDawg on May 25, 2019, 01:55:44 PMand then was on an awful defensive rebounding team last year in Mississippi State and didn't play a single minute.
Do you have any more information on that? How a player could go from being a 4-star recruit ranked the #3 center by Rivals to being glued to the bench for an entire season is a mystery. I didn't see any articles explaining it.
Yeah I got nothing, but it is telling that currently the only big coming back is having surgery and will be out until October and Jethro is still leaving with 2 years of eligibility left. He did just join Twitter though in April, so someone could ask him. https://twitter.com/j_tshisumpa
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1133020089161322497
https://twitter.com/thereal_mg3/status/1133491935472017408?s=21
Quote from: VU2014 on May 28, 2019, 05:02:04 PM
https://twitter.com/thereal_mg3/status/1133491935472017408?s=21
I think some people need to really reevaluate their evaluation of Golder last season. He really gutted through injuries last season. Wishing Markus well and a speedy recovery!
Quote from: VU2014 on May 28, 2019, 06:36:20 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on May 28, 2019, 05:02:04 PM
https://twitter.com/thereal_mg3/status/1133491935472017408?s=21
I think some people need to really reevaluate their evaluation of Golder last season. He really gutted through injuries last season. Wishing Markus well and a speedy recovery!
This is not intended as a slight, but there are two sides to all stories. Without Valpo is he still at a junior college? Injuries are unfortunate but how long did he actually play with an injury? 5-7 games....come on, he's an adult. He better get used to adversity in the real world because playing with an injury hardly makes him a martyr.
Thanks Markus, but adios. These drama queens...
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on May 28, 2019, 07:30:36 PM
This is not intended as a slight, but there are two sides to all stories. Without Valpo is he still at a junior college? Injuries are unfortunate but how long did he actually play with an injury? 5-7 games....come on, he's an adult. He better get used to adversity in the real world because playing with an injury hardly makes him a martyr.
Thanks Markus, but adios. These drama queens...
Speaking of drama; in theater, Markus' tweet would be referred to as "breaking the fourth wall" and, sadly, doing so to silence a critic is counterproductive. There are many fan perspectives on his play and calling out the negative ones makes him seem thin-skinned and a touch narcissistic. Also, and this too is not meant as a slight, but this cliché of "two sides" to a story may be the kind of thinking that makes people (including Markus) defensive rather than reflective.
Golder - I played hurt, and I didn't get credit for it. They call me selfish, but I'm not. Smits - I think I played pretty well today (in a game we got blown out). The guys did a good job of getting me the ball (so I could eat up the clock making my post move). Bakari - I'm being played out of position (which explains why I can't hit a 3 to save my soul). Playing hurt? Im the one playing hurt!
Three yards and a cloud of excuses. I'm so ready to see new faces.
Quote from: Valpower on May 29, 2019, 01:30:43 AM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on May 28, 2019, 07:30:36 PM
This is not intended as a slight, but there are two sides to all stories. Without Valpo is he still at a junior college? Injuries are unfortunate but how long did he actually play with an injury? 5-7 games....come on, he's an adult. He better get used to adversity in the real world because playing with an injury hardly makes him a martyr.
Thanks Markus, but adios. These drama queens...
Speaking of drama; in theater, Markus' tweet would be referred to as "breaking the fourth wall" and, sadly, doing so to silence a critic is counterproductive. There are many fan perspectives on his play and calling out the negative ones makes him seem thin-skinned and a touch narcissistic. Also, and this too is not meant as a slight, but this cliché of "two sides" to a story may be the kind of thinking that makes people (including Markus) defensive rather than reflective.
Golder was far from a "chucker" or "ball hog" but could be a bit selfish with the ball in key circumstances. Specifically on fast breaks. That says nothing about him as a person, just him as a player. Nobody has called him a selfish person...at least I hope not. For him to not make that distinction makes me a little sad. I think 100% of the people on this board liked his personality. Lottich obviously did too, as he made him the face of the program by sending him to MVC media day.
If he was that injured why didn't he defer to teammates on all those 2 on 1 and 3 on 1 fast breaks instead of almost always taking it himself and messing the play up. Thanks for you efforts, but I won't be attending the pity party.
As an aside, I went to Golder's twitter feed to see if I could see more to the conversation as to who he felt was calling him the most selfish player, and while I didn't see anything on that front, I did see a video that he posted of some guys performing on a commuter train. It was really kinda cool. Suggest checking it out.
Quote from: 4throwfan on May 29, 2019, 09:32:08 AMAs an aside, I went to Golder's twitter feed to see if I could see more to the conversation as to who he felt was calling him the most selfish player, and while I didn't see anything on that front, I did see a video that he posted of some guys performing on a commuter train. It was really kinda cool. Suggest checking it out.
I believe he probably got the idea from reading this forum. There certainly were a lot of comments on here saying that.
Quote from: VUBBFan on May 29, 2019, 10:28:30 AM
Quote from: 4throwfan on May 29, 2019, 09:32:08 AMAs an aside, I went to Golder's twitter feed to see if I could see more to the conversation as to who he felt was calling him the most selfish player, and while I didn't see anything on that front, I did see a video that he posted of some guys performing on a commuter train. It was really kinda cool. Suggest checking it out.
I believe he probably got the idea from reading this forum. There certainly were a lot of comments on here saying that.
The minute you are compensated for _______ is the minute you go professional. An education is an item with a dollar amount the market pays, I'm not concerned with his feelings. I don't recall any overly harsh words about Markus. A little criticism is expected, let this be a lesson or (heck) even a motivator for his next stop!
Javon was 31-0 last year in out working his opponent. Tevonn was about 140-0 in the same category. We could be 20 points up or 20 points down, they never changed in intensity. By the time any game they played in was over, I was surprised they had enough left in the tank to get to the locker room. They seldom talked. They never bragged. Give me 13 Javon/Tevonn's, and Ill gladly live with the results every time.
Quote from: VUBBFan on May 29, 2019, 10:28:30 AM
Quote from: 4throwfan on May 29, 2019, 09:32:08 AMAs an aside, I went to Golder's twitter feed to see if I could see more to the conversation as to who he felt was calling him the most selfish player, and while I didn't see anything on that front, I did see a video that he posted of some guys performing on a commuter train. It was really kinda cool. Suggest checking it out.
I believe he probably got the idea from reading this forum. There certainly were a lot of comments on here saying that.
I thought that Markus always played hard and was certainly a fan favorite. I think he at times tried to do too much or make plays more difficult than they needed to be, but I took that as poor decision making ... not selfishness or bad attitude.
I wish him the best at his next stop.
I don't recall comments saying that he was "most selfish" as he seems to refer. That's what I was curious about. All high-level ballplayers need to be a little selfish, otherwise they're not as aggressive on offense as they need to be. If the team is completely unselfish, then they all wait for someone else to take the shot.
I'm not sure that Markus was "most selfish". He might have been a little "too selfish" at times, but not dramatically so.
Quote from: EddieCabot on May 29, 2019, 02:39:53 PMI thought that Markus always played hard and was certainly a fan favorite. I think he at times tried to do too much or make plays more difficult than they needed to be, but I took that as poor decision making ... not selfishness or bad attitude.
I wish him the best at his next stop.
I concur with EddieCabot, Markus was a player that brought energy to the floor whenever he played. He was our most athletic player and maybe our best finisher, so in those fastbreak situations I think he was expected to attempt to make those plays and this was not always the best option. As EddieCabot said, bad decision making much more that than selfishness or attitude. I think that Markus normally had a very good attitude and I wish him well at his next program.
Looks like Bakari has received a lot of interest from several schools.
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1133822720880332801
Quote from: VUBBFan on May 29, 2019, 03:47:41 PM
Looks like Bakari has received a lot of interest from several schools.
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1133822720880332801
If he can get those ankle right he should be a nice role player.
Awwww poor Markus. How dare someone hurt his feelings
If you want to be the man, whether it's in a sport or job, you have to put up with criticism. If he doesn't like it, maybe he should watch from the stands. So tired of coming on here and reading about these guys transferring from valpo. Good luck to them wherever they end up but I won't be paying attention.
I guess we'll know about Sorolla soon.
https://twitter.com/rwweinstein/status/1133864473121492993 (https://twitter.com/rwweinstein/status/1133864473121492993)
I think people don't understand that Markus was having some fun with that tweet. And yes he was taking a subtle shot at you guys who thought that he wasn't injured and was just playing poorly. I'm all for it. He is sticking up for himself and having a little fun with it. I wouldn't take it personally. He has a big heart for Valpo and Valpo fans.
Quote from: humbleopinion on May 29, 2019, 06:56:20 PM
I guess we'll know about Sorolla soon.
https://twitter.com/rwweinstein/status/1133864473121492993 (https://twitter.com/rwweinstein/status/1133864473121492993)
I know he isn't the perfect player but he is a fit and we definitely could use him and I think Valpo could be good for him as well next season. He'd be getting a big bulk of the minutes.
Quote from: VU2014 on May 29, 2019, 08:00:03 PMI think people don't understand that Markus was having some fun with that tweet. And yes he was taking a subtle shot at you guys who thought that he wasn't injured and was just playing poorly.
I get that lying about the severity of injuries is an accepted part of the game. I also get that 10 weeks have passed since season end and nobody put any serious effort into cleaning things up by admitting the obvious. So he helps lure us into suspecting that maybe he was foot dragging and somehow that is supposed to be funny?
That is just about as funny as me calling him Marcus (not Markus) for just one last time. ;)
I am actually very relieved to know that his injury hadn't properly healed. If he had been playing that badly just to spite the coach, team or program then my memory of him would have been permanently stained.
Quote from: wh on May 29, 2019, 06:39:12 AM
Golder - I played hurt, and I didn't get credit for it. They call me selfish, but I'm not. Smits - I think I played pretty well today (in a game we got blown out). The guys did a good job of getting me the ball (so I could eat up the clock making my post move). Bakari - I'm being played out of position (which explains why I can't hit a 3 to save my soul). Playing hurt? Im the one playing hurt!
Three yards and a cloud of excuses. I'm so ready to see new faces.
A local media guy agrees with your opinion on the transfers.
[tweet]1114549034465861632[/tweet]
Quote from: EddieCabot on May 30, 2019, 10:19:02 AM
Quote from: wh on May 29, 2019, 06:39:12 AM
Golder - I played hurt, and I didn't get credit for it. They call me selfish, but I'm not. Smits - I think I played pretty well today (in a game we got blown out). The guys did a good job of getting me the ball (so I could eat up the clock making my post move). Bakari - I'm being played out of position (which explains why I can't hit a 3 to save my soul). Playing hurt? Im the one playing hurt!
Three yards and a cloud of excuses. I'm so ready to see new faces.
A local media guy agrees with your opinion on the transfers.
[tweet]1114549034465861632[/tweet]
Good reference. Although I mostly agree with him, the comment about none being NBA material is hardly worth pointing out. If that were the case then there would be zero need for 99% of the hoopla surrounding recruits and player transferring. Sounds like he is just being a contrarian.
P.S. Javon Freeman (at the time) leaving was a major black eye for Valpo, because he was fresh off a Top 2 freshman in the MVC type of season. But of course him leaving was a nothing burger if you think that mid-majors aren't worth following.
Quote from: VU2014 on May 29, 2019, 08:02:59 PM
Quote from: humbleopinion on May 29, 2019, 06:56:20 PM
I guess we'll know about Sorolla soon.
https://twitter.com/rwweinstein/status/1133864473121492993 (https://twitter.com/rwweinstein/status/1133864473121492993)
I know he isn't the perfect player but he is a fit and we definitely could use him and I think Valpo could be good for him as well next season. He'd be getting a big bulk of the minutes.
Completely agree VU2014, he is in a sorely needed position for us (5-fouls with size). That is not meant as snarky, because I don't think he would ever average north of 9 ppg based on his skills around the hoop. Somehow I feel that despite his injury heading into the non-conference part of the season, that he and Mileek were being oversold to us by ppl (regarding offensive skills and development last summer).
If we can get 10-12 ppg out of the C position this coming season that is a huge win. I think it will take him coming back for that to happen. But more than anything, we could easily have gotten 10-12 ppg out of Smits, but how many dunks and layups would we have to give up in order for him to be on the court long enough to establish that many ppg?
I am sure there are metrics for these things (there are metrics for everything), but what would have been Smits +/- for strictly points scored in the paint while he was on the court? He was the anti-Vashil in sooooo many ways . . .
Quote from: wh on May 29, 2019, 12:49:03 PM
Javon was 31-0 last year in out working his opponent. Tevonn was about 140-0 in the same category. We could be 20 points up or 20 points down, they never changed in intensity. By the time any game they played in was over, I was surprised they had enough left in the tank to get to the locker room. They seldom talked. They never bragged. Give me 13 Javon/Tevonn's, and Ill gladly live with the results every time.
Great analogy (Javon vs. Tevonn). And I disagree with the media comment that includes Javon as average at best. Great motor, and the talent is there with lots of upside.
But, I would really like to see Sorolla decide to come back. He might play at Nevada because they lost of a ton of talent, but he will be a 8-10 minute per game backup at Cincinnati.
Right now Sorrolla is shopping for something better, and VU presumably is too. If Sorrolla comes back, then that means that he found nothing better, and neither did VU.
My hope on Sorrolla coming back is purely conditioned on VU not finding someone at least 90% as good. If we get Sorrolla back, and he is only equal to last year, then VU has lost something because it now has a player no better than before, but also openly doesn't want to be here. If we get someone 85% as good as Sorrolla, I think we have to welcome Sorrolla back if he wants to come. If we find someone 10% better, but has 2 years left, and has to sit a year, may also need to welcome Sorrolla back.
Ideally, both Sorrolla and VU find something better, and it works out well for both.
Quote from: wh on May 29, 2019, 06:39:12 AM
Golder - I played hurt, and I didn't get credit for it. They call me selfish, but I'm not. Smits - I think I played pretty well today (in a game we got blown out). The guys did a good job of getting me the ball (so I could eat up the clock making my post move). Bakari - I'm being played out of position (which explains why I can't hit a 3 to save my soul). Playing hurt? Im the one playing hurt!
Three yards and a cloud of excuses. I'm so ready to see new faces.
In the world of college basketball where the players are often getting exploited, I personally enjoy hearing from the players directly. They should have a voice. And let's be honest, he makes a pretty good point with his statement. People on here are being a little too harsh. The guy is venting his frustrations, cut him some slack. Players are way too often belittled and told to "just play basketball." And, if players were to not be honest, the same people on here would say "uh just another cliché"... I understand people can disagree with his statement, but there is no need to call him drama queen and throw out over-the-top platitudes.... If you can vent your frustrations, you shouldn't have a problem with him venting his! Keep the same energy!
Quote from: mp91 on May 30, 2019, 02:53:45 PM
Quote from: wh on May 29, 2019, 06:39:12 AM
Golder - I played hurt, and I didn't get credit for it. They call me selfish, but I'm not. Smits - I think I played pretty well today (in a game we got blown out). The guys did a good job of getting me the ball (so I could eat up the clock making my post move). Bakari - I'm being played out of position (which explains why I can't hit a 3 to save my soul). Playing hurt? Im the one playing hurt!
Three yards and a cloud of excuses. I'm so ready to see new faces.
In the world of college basketball where the players are often getting exploited, I personally enjoy hearing from the players directly. They should have a voice. And let's be honest, he makes a pretty good point with his statement. People on here are being a little too harsh. The guy is venting his frustrations, cut him some slack. Players are way too often belittled and told to "just play basketball." And, if players were to not be honest, the same people on here would say "uh just another cliché"... I understand people can disagree with his statement, but there is no need to call him drama queen and throw out over-the-top platitudes.... If you can vent your frustrations, you shouldn't have a problem with him venting his! Keep the same energy!
Appreciate your contribution, nice to get differing opinions. My main concern with this is that the minute you receive compensation for any type of work (college scholarships included here, even college aid) you are now accountable to a higher degree. Social media is pure toxic and allows guys that would otherwise vent to friends to make a fool of themselves to a vast audience.
The minute I pressed send here I left myself open to disagreement and so did he. Please don't excuse poor decisions such as picking a fight with fans. He is a professional because he received years of free tuition and board, end of story for me. I am not allowed to go out and make derogatory remarks on my social media account with impunity, my boss has every right to find me unfit in my role as __________.
Sadly I think some of these young men pretty much grew up with social media of one form or another and therefore think it's perfectly ok to act in this manner. And to a degree it is, when you are not beholden to a company or university and expecting to go to another university or company for another job. REPERCUSSIONS MARKUS. And I also realize this argument is wayyyyy bigger than Markus, because what he said was fairly innocuous. So let me be clear that I am talking big picture beyond just Markus here.
P.S. I am 36-years old and technically a millennial, so arguing that I am out of touch won't land from the age perspective. I have watched my peers do just as stupid posting and just shake my head. I will admit to being an "old" 36, so that punch will land!
Quote from: 4throwfan on May 30, 2019, 01:51:43 PM
Right now Sorrolla is shopping for something better, and VU presumably is too. If Sorrolla comes back, then that means that he found nothing better, and neither did VU.
My hope on Sorrolla coming back is purely conditioned on VU not finding someone at least 90% as good. If we get Sorrolla back, and he is only equal to last year, then VU has lost something because it now has a player no better than before, but also openly doesn't want to be here. If we get someone 85% as good as Sorrolla, I think we have to welcome Sorrolla back if he wants to come. If we find someone 10% better, but has 2 years left, and has to sit a year, may also need to welcome Sorrolla back.
Ideally, both Sorrolla and VU find something better, and it works out well for both.
We may want him back for more than just that reason. Wasn't UD (Detroit) put on tournament probation for graduation rate / retention? It's my understanding that the more players transfer out and do not get a degree it becomes a mark against VU.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on May 30, 2019, 04:44:54 PM
Quote from: 4throwfan on May 30, 2019, 01:51:43 PM
Right now Sorrolla is shopping for something better, and VU presumably is too. If Sorrolla comes back, then that means that he found nothing better, and neither did VU.
My hope on Sorrolla coming back is purely conditioned on VU not finding someone at least 90% as good. If we get Sorrolla back, and he is only equal to last year, then VU has lost something because it now has a player no better than before, but also openly doesn't want to be here. If we get someone 85% as good as Sorrolla, I think we have to welcome Sorrolla back if he wants to come. If we find someone 10% better, but has 2 years left, and has to sit a year, may also need to welcome Sorrolla back.
Ideally, both Sorrolla and VU find something better, and it works out well for both.
We may want him back for more than just that reason. Wasn't UD (Detroit) put on tournament probation for graduation rate / retention? It's my understanding that the more players transfer out and do not get a degree it becomes a mark against VU.
I believe all those transfers graduated...🧐🤓
Quote from: cornonthe on May 30, 2019, 07:18:37 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on May 30, 2019, 04:44:54 PM
Quote from: 4throwfan on May 30, 2019, 01:51:43 PM
Right now Sorrolla is shopping for something better, and VU presumably is too. If Sorrolla comes back, then that means that he found nothing better, and neither did VU.
My hope on Sorrolla coming back is purely conditioned on VU not finding someone at least 90% as good. If we get Sorrolla back, and he is only equal to last year, then VU has lost something because it now has a player no better than before, but also openly doesn't want to be here. If we get someone 85% as good as Sorrolla, I think we have to welcome Sorrolla back if he wants to come. If we find someone 10% better, but has 2 years left, and has to sit a year, may also need to welcome Sorrolla back.
Ideally, both Sorrolla and VU find something better, and it works out well for both.
We may want him back for more than just that reason. Wasn't UD (Detroit) put on tournament probation for graduation rate / retention? It's my understanding that the more players transfer out and do not get a degree it becomes a mark against VU.
I believe all those transfers graduated...🧐🤓
Very good point, I must admit I don't pay attention to their academics or status once they choose to leave. That's on me
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1134469670508138497
Portland State appears to be a big step down for Markus. Sagarin had Portland State ranked 275, while Valpo was 196 last year. The Big Sky conference was rated at #28 compared to the Missouri Valley rating of #13. However, he will be returning home.
Quote from: valpopal on May 31, 2019, 10:07:58 AMPortland State appears to be a big step down for Markus. Sagarin had Portland State ranked 275, while Valpo was 196 last year. The Big Sky conference was rated at #28 compared to the Missouri Valley rating of #13. However, he will be returning home.
Close to home and he should get the opportunity to play big minutes and a large role there. Probably a good landing spot for him.
Good decision on his part, as he needs to go somewhere where he will play and be a main focus. He gets that at Portland State. Isn't that where Paul Guede ended up transferring, as well?
Quote from: valpotx on June 01, 2019, 02:12:47 AM
Good decision on his part, as he needs to go somewhere where he will play and be a main focus. He gets that at Portland State. Isn't that where Paul Guede ended up transferring, as well?
Yes, and he had a decent two years there too...
Quote from: cornonthe on June 01, 2019, 01:15:14 PM
Quote from: valpotx on June 01, 2019, 02:12:47 AM
Good decision on his part, as he needs to go somewhere where he will play and be a main focus. He gets that at Portland State. Isn't that where Paul Guede ended up transferring, as well?
Yes, and he had a decent two years there too...
I remember Paul Guede, but don't recall the sequence of events that led to him moving on...
Can someone fill us in please.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on June 01, 2019, 02:30:42 PM
Quote from: cornonthe on June 01, 2019, 01:15:14 PM
Quote from: valpotx on June 01, 2019, 02:12:47 AM
Good decision on his part, as he needs to go somewhere where he will play and be a main focus. He gets that at Portland State. Isn't that where Paul Guede ended up transferring, as well?
Yes, and he had a decent two years there too...
I remember Paul Guede, but don't recall the sequence of events that led to him moving on...
Can someone fill us in please.
I remember that it had to do with academics...but I think it was more that he did not like the classes...but this seems longer ago than it really was...
Per his Twitter Jay has chosen to join the Cincinnati Bearcats. Leaves Valpo with 1 schollie to fill.
Per Jaume Sorolla (Jay) @jay_sorolla
Ready for the next level...GoBearcats[emoji1377] https://t.co/nNDAmiiDXc
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
Quote from: vufan75 on June 02, 2019, 08:26:29 AM
Per his Twitter Jay has chosen to join the Cincinnati Bearcats. Leaves Valpo with 1 schollie to fill.
Per Jaume Sorolla (Jay) @jay_sorolla
Ready for the next level...GoBearcats[emoji1377] https://t.co/nNDAmiiDXc
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
Think he's out kicked his coverage...heck, even in the MVC he was borderline. Though I liked his defensive presence.
Quote from: vufan75 on June 02, 2019, 08:26:29 AM
Per his Twitter Jay has chosen to join the Cincinnati Bearcats. Leaves Valpo with 1 schollie to fill.
Per Jaume Sorolla (Jay) @jay_sorolla
Ready for the next level...GoBearcats[emoji1377] https://t.co/nNDAmiiDXc
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
Though if there was a player from last years team that I think was under utilized, that's Jay.
We were forced to run Smits more because our G couldn't make a bucket. So Jay was more situational which makes it hard to develop offensively. I still liked Jay WAY better than Mrs Smits.
Quote
Think he's out kicked his coverage...heck, even in the MVC he was borderline. Though I liked his defensive presence.
Or... it's much more likely that our coaching staff did not develop or utilize him properly, much like they did with Smits. Both ended up at much higher-profile destinations and conferences, so maybe it's possible the scouting acumen of this board is clouded by its tendency to immediately throw players under the bus as selfish.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on June 02, 2019, 11:00:49 AM
Quote
Think he's out kicked his coverage...heck, even in the MVC he was borderline. Though I liked his defensive presence.
Or... it's much more likely that our coaching staff did not develop or utilize him properly, much like they did with Smits. Both ended up at much higher-profile destinations and conferences, so maybe it's possible the scouting acumen of this board is clouded by its tendency to immediately throw players under the bus as selfish.
Read my second post please. A similar concept to yours meaning situations/decisions occurred that may have left him under utilized or under developed. Take your bus elsewhere sir. 🥴
well Valpo's front court could be in some major foul trouble next season.... generally not good if you have to rely on a freshman at the 5 and Mileek isn't best suited there either. Also Kiser's smarts and grit can only help him so far in defending the post.
Valpo needs a big man who can hold his own on defense.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on June 02, 2019, 10:20:07 AM
Quote from: vufan75 on June 02, 2019, 08:26:29 AM
Per his Twitter Jay has chosen to join the Cincinnati Bearcats. Leaves Valpo with 1 schollie to fill.
Per Jaume Sorolla (Jay) @jay_sorolla
Ready for the next level...GoBearcats[emoji1377] https://t.co/nNDAmiiDXc
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
Though if there was a player from last years team that I think was under utilized, that's Jay.
We were forced to run Smits more because our G couldn't make a bucket. So Jay was more situational which makes it hard to develop offensively. I still liked Jay WAY better than Mrs Smits.
Eh, I don't think that argument holds water once Sorolla was healthy enough to be on the floor. During conference play, Smits played 21 minutes per game, and Sorolla played 18 minutes a game. Sorolla was a better defender than Smits (Sorolla had the 2nd best defensive efficiency rating, while Smits was tied for 3rd), but Smits was much better offensively than Sorolla (or any option outside of Fazekas) that Valpo had, which is why his usage was so high, which is probably why you think Sorolla (who was used very little offensively, but at a similar level to previous seasons) was only used in situations even though they played similar minutes.
Sorolla's offense was likely impacted all year by his injury issues considering how much worse he was this year than previous years, but a big part of his offensive decline also was that because Valpo's guards couldn't hit perimeter shots, teams were more likely to double the post, which caused Sorolla's turnovers to spike and his free throw rate to drop as well. His shooting percentages were similar to previous seasons, as were his rebounding numbers.
My guess is that some of you will think I'm only saying this because Smits is at Butler, but it's really not. Now that Sorolla is officially off to Cincy, I think it might make Valpo a much more fun team to watch without a lumbering 7 footer out there, you may see a more free-flowing offense since they don't really have a true low post threat.
Do I detect a hint of bitterness or enjoyment from Bakari from the fact that Jay isn't coming back to Valpo...? ??? What could this be all about...?
I think he's just referring to himself as the last one that hasn't announced where he's going to next.
So I wonder where we go from here. I think we could use an experienced guy with some size, but it has to be the right fit. 1 scholarship remains.
I am hoping that Matt has someone in mind, and he was just waiting for Jay to make up his mind before sealing the deal.
I wish him luck, but believe that he could have picked a better school for his level. He struggled in the MVC, so he will be a 5-10 mpg guy in the AAC, mainly used for defensive situations.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on June 02, 2019, 11:00:49 AMQuoteThink he's out kicked his coverage...heck, even in the MVC he was borderline. Though I liked his defensive presence.
Or... it's much more likely that our coaching staff did not develop or utilize him properly, much like they did with Smits. Both ended up at much higher-profile destinations and conferences, so maybe it's possible the scouting acumen of this board is clouded by its tendency to immediately throw players under the bus as selfish.
or maybe size is more in demand than the acumen of one poster would like to recognize.
Could Valpo be a potential landing spot for former SLU PF Elliott Welmer? High risk (injuries) high reward potentially. One article says he probably is done playing but you never know. He has a year left of eligibility and wants to pursue his MBA. He could play closer to home and work on his MBA here and if things don't workout, maybe he becomes a grad assistant. Just a thought.
Status: Left team for Personal Reasons from Saint Louis
Year: 2015 (RS JR)
Position: PF
Height: 6-9
Weight: 220
Hometown: Columbus, IN
High School: Columbus North High School
AAU Team: Eric Gordon All-Stars Keeton
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/elliott-welmer-1.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YK298uKGQLo
https://www.stltoday.com/sports/college/slu/four-foot-fractures-later-slu-s-welmer-holds-out-hope/article_90431b25-8530-57b0-a0ec-f1e1e81f2005.html
http://www.therepublic.com/2019/01/23/bad_break__north_graduate_hopes_to_return_from_fourth_foot_fracture/
If Welmer's injury concerns are that bad why would we waste our time? If he wants to walk on sure. I'm all for it. But we need somebody in the frontcourt who will actually play for the last scholarship or if it's a sit out transfer a potential impact player.
Coach Gore usually works with the bigs. He has a LONG history of bigs getting better every single year. BTW, Smits is no exception as he improved eevery single year he was here, having a huge breakout season last year.
Jay did not really improve. Why? I don't know, perhaps injuries. But again I think it is not fare to blame the coaching staff here since Gore is the go to guy for developing project bigs and he has proven himself very effective in doing so.
I for one am very excited about how the team will operate without Smits/Sorolla. Perhaps it will be a disaster, but it will be different, and considering how the team has looked the last 2 years, I am just ready for different.
Just watching some video on Krikke (spelling?)... I think he might be the sorta PF that can play center and stretch the floor and really open things up.
Quote from: humbleopinion on June 02, 2019, 02:48:01 PM
I am hoping that Matt has someone in mind, and he was just waiting for Jay to make up his mind before sealing the deal.
I'm wondering whether or not the departures of J and Derrik were more of a reaction to a changed philosophy on offense. Clearly, in J's situation, if a change in offensive style wasn't in the works, why would he leave? He didn't go to Cincy to gain additional playing time versus his existing situation at Valpo.
If, on the other hand, the offense has or will change to an uptempo run and gun, press all over the floor style, then a slow 7'er may not see the time previously allocated or see the ball constantly given to the guy in the middle with the direction to make something happen.
The new big is a Euro type and we now have guys like Robinson, Morgan and Clay--all with size and defensive prowess, to go with a guys like Freeman and Sackey. I suspect we will see an entirely different offensive scheme. Let's hope so!
Quote from: vu72 on June 03, 2019, 08:19:45 AM
Quote from: humbleopinion on June 02, 2019, 02:48:01 PM
I am hoping that Matt has someone in mind, and he was just waiting for Jay to make up his mind before sealing the deal.
I'm wondering whether or not the departures of J and Derrik were more of a reaction to a changed philosophy on offense. Clearly, in J's situation, if a change in offensive style wasn't in the works, why would he leave? He didn't go to Cincy to gain additional playing time versus his existing situation at Valpo.
If, on the other hand, the offense has or will change to an uptempo run and gun, press all over the floor style, then a slow 7'er may not see the time previously allocated or see the ball constantly given to the guy in the middle with the direction to make something happen.
The new big is a Euro type and we now have guys like Robinson, Morgan and Clay--all with size and defensive prowess, to go with a guys like Freeman and Sackey. I suspect we will see an entirely different offensive scheme. Let's hope so!
I hope you're right about changing the style. The roster is loaded with versatile guards and wings, so I hope the coach uses a system that exploits that talent and covers up what appears to be a lack of experience at the center position.
I am very interested to see our new style of play. Please let us be a better 3pt shooting team this season. Even the bigs have the chance to space the floor with Mileek, Freese-Villien, and Krikke. Coach mentioned that Krikke can play some undersized center as well but I'm really corncern about foul trouble from all 3. Krikke comes with fairly high praise for his potential future on offense but I'm not sure about his defense. I'd like to see us land a solid grad transfer center who can play reliable D but is slim pickings out there
Quote from: VU2014 on June 03, 2019, 12:59:13 PM
I am very interested to see our new style of play. Please let us be a better 3pt shooting team this season. Even the bigs have the chance to space the floor with Mileek, Freese-Villien, and Krikke. Coach mentioned that Krikke can play some undersized center as well but I'm really corncern about foul trouble from all 3. Krikke comes with fairly high praise for his potential future on offense but I'm not sure about his defense. I'd like to see us land a solid grad transfer center who can play reliable D but is slim pickings out there
Agree on having a grad transfer if possible but looking at our current roster, we have EIGHT guys 6'5" or taller. Four 6'7" or taller. A combo of shooting and athleticism can more than make-up for pure size. Butler has for many years won games with no true center or at least not one who dominates in the paint. Think of Kelan Martin at 6'7", Andrew Chrabascz at 6'7", Tyler Wideman at 6'8" or even Rossevelt Jones at 6'4" ! Not saying our guys are that good but they may be!
I guess, but like to have someone who can hold their own against a guy like Krutwig. I don't expect a guy to be a Vashil who can can be a stud down at defense in the paint but a guy who won't get taken to school on 75% of possessions and get in foul trouble. Help defense can only help so much. I'm interested to see what the freshman bring on defense
Quote from: VU2014 on June 03, 2019, 04:00:50 PM
I guess, but like to have someone who can hold their own against a guy like Krutwig. I don't expect a guy to be a Vashil who can can be a stud down at defense in the paint but a guy who won't get taken to school on 75% of possessions and get in foul trouble. Help defense can only help so much. I'm interested to see what the freshman bring on defense
I think anyone would like someone who could hold their own against the best player in the conference one on one, but it's not like the league is filled with guys like that. I would be concerned at the lack of experience in the post, but the lack of size isn't going to be an issue all that often in league play, IMO.
Quote from: IrishDawg on June 03, 2019, 07:18:12 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on June 03, 2019, 04:00:50 PM
I guess, but like to have someone who can hold their own against a guy like Krutwig. I don't expect a guy to be a Vashil who can can be a stud down at defense in the paint but a guy who won't get taken to school on 75% of possessions and get in foul trouble. Help defense can only help so much. I'm interested to see what the freshman bring on defense
I think anyone would like someone who could hold their own against the best player in the conference one on one, but it's not like the league is filled with guys like that. I would be concerned at the lack of experience in the post, but the lack of size isn't going to be an issue all that often in league play, IMO.
Solid point, though it's a different story when you are devoid of a serviceable PF/C.
Fazekas is a SF
Clay is a SF
Kiser is a SF who doesn't shoot
Belgium is a Freshman (6'10")
Canada is a Freshman (6'8")
Mileek is a football player
Quote from: SanityLost17 on June 03, 2019, 08:06:26 AMBelgium is a Freshman (6'10") Canada is a Freshman (6'8") Mileek is a football player
Freese-Vilien I'll guess will struggle defending the post early but he could make teams pay on the offensive end. His stats don't reflect a lot of 3 point production but the tape I've seen of him make it appear he has a shot in the making. Ball looks good coming out of his hand. Of course, Krikke looks awkward in almost everything he does including his 3 pointers but it goes in which is all that counts. I just think Krikke as a 6-7 freshman (unless the reports of 6-9 we saw at one point are true) is really going to have problems trying to defend a post player.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on June 03, 2019, 09:10:04 PM
Quote from: IrishDawg on June 03, 2019, 07:18:12 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on June 03, 2019, 04:00:50 PM
I guess, but like to have someone who can hold their own against a guy like Krutwig. I don't expect a guy to be a Vashil who can can be a stud down at defense in the paint but a guy who won't get taken to school on 75% of possessions and get in foul trouble. Help defense can only help so much. I'm interested to see what the freshman bring on defense
I think anyone would like someone who could hold their own against the best player in the conference one on one, but it's not like the league is filled with guys like that. I would be concerned at the lack of experience in the post, but the lack of size isn't going to be an issue all that often in league play, IMO.
Solid point, though it's a different story when you are devoid of a serviceable PF/C.
Fazekas is a SF
Clay is a SF
Kiser is a SF who doesn't shoot
Belgium is a Freshman (6'10")
Canada is a Freshman (6'8")
Mileek is a football player
Belgium, Canada, Football Player, and Former Walk-On will be just fine as long as our 4 guard lineup lives up to defensive expectations, and most importantly, can hit a consistent above average percentage from 3. If they don't, we are going to suck with or without a true center. How our 1-4 play will make or break this team. The 4 horsemen at center won't make or break us.
Quote from: SanityLost17 on June 03, 2019, 10:25:39 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on June 03, 2019, 09:10:04 PM
Quote from: IrishDawg on June 03, 2019, 07:18:12 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on June 03, 2019, 04:00:50 PM
I guess, but like to have someone who can hold their own against a guy like Krutwig. I don't expect a guy to be a Vashil who can can be a stud down at defense in the paint but a guy who won't get taken to school on 75% of possessions and get in foul trouble. Help defense can only help so much. I'm interested to see what the freshman bring on defense
I think anyone would like someone who could hold their own against the best player in the conference one on one, but it's not like the league is filled with guys like that. I would be concerned at the lack of experience in the post, but the lack of size isn't going to be an issue all that often in league play, IMO.
Solid point, though it's a different story when you are devoid of a serviceable PF/C.
Fazekas is a SF
Clay is a SF
Kiser is a SF who doesn't shoot
Belgium is a Freshman (6'10")
Canada is a Freshman (6'8")
Mileek is a football player
Belgium, Canada, Football Player, and Former Walk-On will be just fine as long as our 4 guard lineup lives up to defensive expectations, and most importantly, can hit a consistent above average percentage from 3. If they don't, we are going to suck with or without a true center. How our 1-4 play will make or break this team. The 4 horsemen at center won't make or break us.
Canada (Krikke) seems slow of foot and usually the freshman indecisiveness exacerbates that. Speed of the game could truly bewilder Canada (Krikke) and Belgium (Freese-Villien).
I see where you are coming from, but the guards we play need defense at a level where our bigs aren't required to stop dribble drive. I fear that and pick and rolls with freshman.
So much is up in the air, could be a hair pulling non conference. Just to be completely honest, Mileek turning the corner this year .....how likely is that? I don't have high hopes for him as a contributor on the court. Yes, he's not been asked to give 20 mpg but in the same breath, he hasn't made it that far without significant foul trouble. He's got the spirit, just not the basketball awareness / IQ to not body slam his opponent. No matter how you chalk it up, (to this point) he's just not getting it.
Golder had surgery today
https://twitter.com/jlg5297/status/1136345024109486080
https://twitter.com/TheReal_MG3/status/1136392307333140480
Quote from: VU2014 on June 05, 2019, 06:31:58 PM
Golder had surgery today
https://twitter.com/jlg5297/status/1136345024109486080
https://twitter.com/TheReal_MG3/status/1136392307333140480
Hopefully his insurance covered it all. I don't remember anyone needing major surgery while I was at VU. Were athletes covered by Valpo's insurance or were we expected to claim under our parents (under 25 years old etc)?
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on June 05, 2019, 08:31:26 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on June 05, 2019, 06:31:58 PM
Golder had surgery today
https://twitter.com/jlg5297/status/1136345024109486080
https://twitter.com/TheReal_MG3/status/1136392307333140480
Hopefully his insurance covered it all. I don't remember anyone needing major surgery while I was at VU. Were athletes covered by Valpo's insurance or were we expected to claim under our parents (under 25 years old etc)?
It felt like half the women's team needed ACL surgeries last season. I'm not sure how the insurance policies work with college athletics. I know AP and Lex needed some surgeries. I think I remember hearing Jay went back to Spain when he had that really bad ankle injury to start the season. Derrik also was out his whole true freshman season. Kiser had multiple broken noses while at VU
If there are any current students on the board they can confirm this has not ended but every fulltime student has as part of their student payments a health insurance policy unless they opt out of it.
Looks like there are six centers left that could play immediately:
1.) Moustaphan Diadne, Western Kentucky University, 6-9
2.) Kelvin Jones, Idaho State, 6-11
3.) Colin McManus, Penn, 6-10
4.) Demola Onifade, Delaware State, 6-9
5.) Patrick Szpir, Chicago State, 6-9
6.) Jethro Shusuwpa Mbiya, Mississippi State, 6-10
Happy to hear that Golder's surgery went well....what was the problem?
Quote from: tiny707 on June 07, 2019, 09:12:51 AM
Looks like there are six centers left that could play immediately:
1.) Moustaphan Diadne, Western Kentucky University, 6-9
2.) Kelvin Jones, Idaho State, 6-11
3.) Colin McManus, Penn, 6-10
4.) Demola Onifade, Delaware State, 6-9
5.) Patrick Szpir, Chicago State, 6-9
6.) Jethro Shusuwpa Mbiya, Mississippi State, 6-10
Add Dusan Kovacevic 6-10 Davidson
Jalen Williams 6-8 245 Furman
Jones is easily the best however there must be a story keeping him unsigned because lots of less talented bigs have signed. His next stop will be his third.
Quote from: IndyValpo on June 07, 2019, 10:38:49 AMQuote from: tiny707 on June 07, 2019, 09:12:51 AMLooks like there are six centers left that could play immediately: 1.) Moustaphan Diadne, Western Kentucky University, 6-9 2.) Kelvin Jones, Idaho State, 6-11 3.) Colin McManus, Penn, 6-10 4.) Demola Onifade, Delaware State, 6-9 5.) Patrick Szpir, Chicago State, 6-9 6.) Jethro Shusuwpa Mbiya, Mississippi State, 6-10
Add Dusan Kovacevic 6-10 Davidson Jalen Williams 6-8 245 Furman Jones is easily the best however there must be a story keeping him unsigned because lots of less talented bigs have signed. His next stop will be his third.
Here's an article that has some info on his first transfer and his Father's role in it. This may be a factor in the transfer decision.
https://www.theprospectordaily.com/2017/10/21/kelvin-jones-departs-from-utep-basketball-program/
Quote from: tiny707 on June 07, 2019, 09:12:51 AMLooks like there are six centers left that could play immediately: 1.) Moustaphan Diadne, Western Kentucky University, 6-9 2.) Kelvin Jones, Idaho State, 6-11 3.) Colin McManus, Penn, 6-10 4.) Demola Onifade, Delaware State, 6-9 5.) Patrick Szpir, Chicago State, 6-9 6.) Jethro Shusuwpa Mbiya, Mississippi State, 6-10
I'll add one more to the list.
3.7 star Kerry Blackshear 6'10" from Pennsylvania
Quote from: VUBBFan on June 07, 2019, 01:06:34 PM
Quote from: tiny707 on June 07, 2019, 09:12:51 AMLooks like there are six centers left that could play immediately: 1.) Moustaphan Diadne, Western Kentucky University, 6-9 2.) Kelvin Jones, Idaho State, 6-11 3.) Colin McManus, Penn, 6-10 4.) Demola Onifade, Delaware State, 6-9 5.) Patrick Szpir, Chicago State, 6-9 6.) Jethro Shusuwpa Mbiya, Mississippi State, 6-10
I'll add one more to the list.
3.7 star Kerry Blackshear 6'10" from Pennsylvania
Blackshear thought he was headed for the NBA but didn't get a combine invite so he is looking at major schools like UK and UNC as well as returning to VT. He is way over our head.
1.) Moustaphan Diadne, Western Kentucky University, 6-9
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/moustapha-diagne-2.html
2.) Kelvin Jones, Idaho State, 6-11
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/kelvin-jones-1.html
3.) Colin McManus, Penn, 6-10
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/collin-mcmanus-1.html
4.) Demola Onifade, Delaware State, 6-9
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/demola-onifade-1.html
5.) Patrick Szpir, Chicago State, 6-9
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/patrick-szpir-1.html
6.) Jethro Shusuwpa Mbiya, Mississippi State, 6-10
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jethro-tshisumpa-1.html
7.) Dusan Kovacevic 6-10 Davidson
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/dusan-kovacevic-1.html
8.) Jalen Williams 6-8 245 Furman Jones
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jalen-williams-1.html
9. ) 3.7 star Kerry Blackshear 6'10" from Pennsylvania
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/kerry-blackshearjr-1.html
Quote from: Just Sayin on June 07, 2019, 08:18:06 PM
1.) Moustaphan Diadne, Western Kentucky University, 6-9
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/moustapha-diagne-2.html
2.) Kelvin Jones, Idaho State, 6-11
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/kelvin-jones-1.html
3.) Colin McManus, Penn, 6-10
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/collin-mcmanus-1.html
4.) Demola Onifade, Delaware State, 6-9
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/demola-onifade-1.html
5.) Patrick Szpir, Chicago State, 6-9
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/patrick-szpir-1.html
6.) Jethro Shusuwpa Mbiya, Mississippi State, 6-10
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jethro-tshisumpa-1.html
7.) Dusan Kovacevic 6-10 Davidson
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/dusan-kovacevic-1.html
8.) Jalen Williams 6-8 245 Furman Jones
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jalen-williams-1.html
9. ) 3.7 star Kerry Blackshear 6'10" from Pennsylvania
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/kerry-blackshearjr-1.html
I'm waiting on word about:
10. ) Shavkat Undertheradar 6'11" from Uzbekistan State University
Quote from: VUBBFan on June 07, 2019, 11:47:30 AM
Quote from: IndyValpo on June 07, 2019, 10:38:49 AMQuote from: tiny707 on June 07, 2019, 09:12:51 AMLooks like there are six centers left that could play immediately: 1.) Moustaphan Diadne, Western Kentucky University, 6-9 2.) Kelvin Jones, Idaho State, 6-11 3.) Colin McManus, Penn, 6-10 4.) Demola Onifade, Delaware State, 6-9 5.) Patrick Szpir, Chicago State, 6-9 6.) Jethro Shusuwpa Mbiya, Mississippi State, 6-10
Add Dusan Kovacevic 6-10 Davidson Jalen Williams 6-8 245 Furman Jones is easily the best however there must be a story keeping him unsigned because lots of less talented bigs have signed. His next stop will be his third.
Here's an article that has some info on his first transfer and his Father's role in it. This may be a factor in the transfer decision.
https://www.theprospectordaily.com/2017/10/21/kelvin-jones-departs-from-utep-basketball-program/
That is quite a story about leaving UTEP. I wouldn't want to deal with his family. Sounds like a player who was in the women's program, once upon a time.
Yeah it's a bit of a red flag, but as long as the kid is a good teammate and accepts his role, I could care less about his dad. There is less risk with him being a 1 yr grad-transfer. The coaches would need to really know the kid's character and makeup before offering with the family baggage. But who knows if they're even looking at this guy.
Which player on the women's team? Just curious.
Anybody heard where Micah might be heading? I haven't seed anything about him taking any visits.
Another helicopter parent from hell, just like Lori Laughlin.
I for one am glad Micah is gone. One of our biggest recruiting disappointments since Jay Harris. We were told we were getting a guy that could shoot and create and with the exception of a brief stretch during our first MVC season where he showed some promise as a distributor we saw neither.
Quote from: valpotx on June 08, 2019, 01:16:47 PM
Which player on the women's team? Just curious.
Stefanie Lang.
I couldn't remember her name yesterday. Had to look it up.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 09, 2019, 03:21:02 PM
I for one am glad Micah is gone. One of our biggest recruiting disappointments since Jay Harris. We were told we were getting a guy that could shoot and create and with the exception of a brief stretch during our first MVC season where he showed some promise as a distributor we saw neither.
I hope that makes you feel better.
Quote from: EddieCabot on June 09, 2019, 01:49:50 PMAnybody heard where Micah might be heading? I haven't seed anything about him taking any visits.
I'm assuming any coach with interest would need to see some kind of complete workout along with passing a team physical. That might be a little tricky if still dealing with any lingering back issues. The longer this silence lasts the less optimistic I am about his basketball future.
Bakari to Iowa. Golder to Portland State. Sarolla to Cindy. Smitts to Butler. Sure seems like these "selfish" no-good-for-nothing players are hitting the upgrade button, if you ask me. Will be interesting to see how this season ends up. Nobody to blame at this point if most our players left and we're still a bottom feeder in the league. Will we get to 500? Is that an accomplishment? Idk ...
Good point, 87, three of our so-called "selfish" transfers ended up at high-major schools (two of which were in the tourney last year) and a fourth ended up at a D1 midmajor school in his hometown, playing a brand-new arena. Clearly other coaching staffs saw their value.
Like you said, no more excuses left for Lottich. If he doesn't start winning with the roster he crafted immediately, it'll be clear that the problem didn't lie with the players who departed.
I wouldn't get too worked up about where these guys landed until we see what kind of role they play and what kind of numbers they produce, as well as how their replacements play for Valpo.
If Evelyn and Sorolla have anything more than bit roles on their new teams I will be absolutely shocked.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on June 09, 2019, 09:20:54 PM
Good point, 87, three of our so-called "selfish" transfers ended up at high-major schools (two of which were in the tourney last year) and a fourth ended up at a D1 midmajor school in his hometown, playing a brand-new arena. Clearly other coaching staffs saw their value.
Like you said, no more excuses left for Lottich. If he doesn't start winning with the roster he crafted immediately, it'll be clear that the problem didn't lie with the players who departed.
I'd say immediately is pretty vague, please elaborate on this idea.
I would say a sub 500 season and one that showed little or no progress should result in a replacement. four years is enough time to give a coach a opportunity to be successful.
Markus' mom says that the injuries at Valpo we're not managed properly. That is a very serious accusation but one that many of injured players seem to think was the case. Valpo needs to reevaluate their strength/conditioning/training staff if it's the case or at the very least do a self audit. Maybe it was just bad luck but it's something the athletics department needs to look into.
https://twitter.com/jlg5297/status/1137958959535366145?s=21
Quote from: M on June 09, 2019, 09:44:08 PM
I wouldn't get too worked up about where these guys landed until we see what kind of role they play and what kind of numbers they produce, as well as how their replacements play for Valpo.
That's correct. Remember, Chris Halvorsen left us to go play for Minnesota! ;)
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on June 09, 2019, 08:15:18 PMBakari to Iowa. Golder to Portland State. Sarolla to Cindy. Smitts to Butler. Sure seems like these "selfish" no-good-for-nothing players are hitting the upgrade button, if you ask me. Will be interesting to see how this season ends up. Nobody to blame at this point if most our players left and we're still a bottom feeder in the league. Will we get to 500? Is that an accomplishment? Idk ...
I stand by my post in another thread as to why some of these guys are going to bigger programs (Smits is the only I think that had really 'earned' that bump up):
"So the only explanation I have here is that a guy that has experience and only takes a scholarship up for 1 year is a nice thing to have on a team that has a space open. You need to fill that space with a warm body, so might as well take someone that you can throw in the game if needed. Bakari had a good year the season before last, last year was rough on several levels, but he has likely shown enough to know he can hold his own on the court. Just like we took Lavendar for a year (and he played a bigger role than we would have expected/hoped he would). Bakari, Markus, Sorolla. They are all looking at bigger schools and will likely land with one, not because they have dominated the lower competition, but because they are serviceable and a known quantity and at only a 1 year scholarship, low "cost"/risk."
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on June 09, 2019, 08:15:18 PM
Bakari to Iowa. Golder to Portland State. Sarolla to Cindy. Smitts to Butler. Sure seems like these "selfish" no-good-for-nothing players are hitting the upgrade button, if you ask me. Will be interesting to see how this season ends up. Nobody to blame at this point if most our players left and we're still a bottom feeder in the league. Will we get to 500? Is that an accomplishment? Idk ...
Can you at least wait till the season begins before getting all negative and being Debbie Downer about this program? Let's see what we actual have first, huh?
Quote from: bbtds on June 10, 2019, 10:26:04 AMCan you at least wait till the season begins before getting all negative and being Debbie Downer about this program?
No! I have gone from expecting a MVC championship contender to being resigned to another season of mediocrity. That is a big change and nobody really shouldered much responsibility. It will be very difficult for me to get excited until I can witness some early season signs of life.
Any rumors about a summer trip?
I thought you were a Belmont fan now.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 10, 2019, 12:06:06 PM
I thought you were a Belmont fan now.
I am a diehard fan of quality mid-major basketball. It is a real shame that no such programs exist in northwest Indiana. :'( :'(
root for Gonzaga?
We can cross out Kelvin Jones as a possible transfer candidate. He has transferred to Creighton.
The pool continues to get smaller
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/1142219398528294918
Just win. That's all we want. Start winning again.
If that isn't a veiled shot at some of the folks that are no longer with our program, I don't know what is lol.
Quote from: valpotx on June 24, 2019, 02:49:59 PM
If that isn't a veiled shot at some of the folks that are no longer with our program, I don't know what is lol.
Couldn't agree more, wanted someone else to say it first!!!
Truth.
Sorry if I offended some of you by using that word.
When Paul Oren writes a book in the future about the history of the Valpo Basketball program (I'm wishfully hoping), I expect at least a few pages explaining what the heck happened to the 18-19 team internally. The coaches and players did a hell of a job fooling fans/media that things were all kumbaya in that locker-room but in reality there seemed to be some infighting or at least angst about roles on the team. I don't know what the truth is.
How else could that team that had real talent have cratered like they did? That was embarrassing. I hope we never deal with that again.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 24, 2019, 09:41:10 PM
How else could that team that had real talent have cratered like they did? That was embarrassing. I hope we never deal with that again.
The team was filled with talented roll players with maybe one exception. As the injuries and, still unexplained, poor production by some of the team leaders began to mount, the team without all of the proper cogs in place began to break down. That is when the finger pointing and other attitude issues started.
Quote from: FWalum on June 25, 2019, 08:38:35 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 24, 2019, 09:41:10 PM
How else could that team that had real talent have cratered like they did? That was embarrassing. I hope we never deal with that again.
The team was filled with talented roll players with maybe one exception. As the injuries and, still unexplained, poor production by some of the team leaders began to mount, the team without all of the proper cogs in place began to break down. That is when the finger pointing and other attitude issues started.
The healthy and confident team of early January could have met my 12-6 MVC expectation. Our February team condition and attitude reverted us back to maybe a 5-13 level of potential. So much of team success is just the mutual belief and trust in one another. When that goes wins are difficult to manufacture. If I live to 100 I will still be having nightmares about our February imposters pretending to be a Valpo basketball team.
Quote from: Just Sayin on June 07, 2019, 08:18:06 PM
1.) Moustaphan Diadne, Western Kentucky University, 6-9
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/moustapha-diagne-2.html
2.) Kelvin Jones, Idaho State, 6-11
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/kelvin-jones-1.html
3.) Colin McManus, Penn, 6-10
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/collin-mcmanus-1.html
4.) Demola Onifade, Delaware State, 6-9
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/demola-onifade-1.html
5.) Patrick Szpir, Chicago State, 6-9
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/patrick-szpir-1.html
6.) Jethro Shusuwpa Mbiya, Mississippi State, 6-10
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jethro-tshisumpa-1.html
7.) Dusan Kovacevic 6-10 Davidson
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/dusan-kovacevic-1.html
8.) Jalen Williams 6-8 245 Furman Jones
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jalen-williams-1.html
9. ) 3.7 star Kerry Blackshear 6'10" from Pennsylvania
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/kerry-blackshearjr-1.html
#8 to Cleveland State, #9 to Florida
Quote from: IndyValpo on June 27, 2019, 09:03:49 AMQuote from: Just Sayin on June 07, 2019, 08:18:06 PM1.) Moustaphan Diadne, Western Kentucky University, 6-9 https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/moustapha-diagne-2.html 2.) Kelvin Jones, Idaho State, 6-11 https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/kelvin-jones-1.html 3.) Colin McManus, Penn, 6-10 https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/collin-mcmanus-1.html 4.) Demola Onifade, Delaware State, 6-9 https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/demola-onifade-1.html 5.) Patrick Szpir, Chicago State, 6-9 https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/patrick-szpir-1.html 6.) Jethro Shusuwpa Mbiya, Mississippi State, 6-10 https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jethro-tshisumpa-1.html 7.) Dusan Kovacevic 6-10 Davidson https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/dusan-kovacevic-1.html 8.) Jalen Williams 6-8 245 Furman Jones https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jalen-williams-1.html 9. ) 3.7 star Kerry Blackshear 6'10" from Pennsylvania https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/kerry-blackshearjr-1.html
#8 to Cleveland State, #9 to Florida
And # 2 to Creighton.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/27169560/iowa-adds-valparaiso-graduate-transfer-evelyn (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/27169560/iowa-adds-valparaiso-graduate-transfer-evelyn)
Iowa is in trouble, if they expect Evelyn to be an upgrade. He was terrible last season, and as others have said, seemed to be extremely selfish.
Quote from: valpotx on July 12, 2019, 01:27:22 AM
Iowa is in trouble, if they expect Evelyn to be an upgrade. He was terrible last season, and as others have said, seemed to be extremely selfish.
There still seems to be things about Evelyn's frustrating performance last year that are unexplained. I wonder whether the whole story will every be made public, it would be nice to know, as I think many of us suspect, if there were other extenuating circumstances or issues. I will say that it was nice to see him participate and really celebrate his VU graduation unlike many of the other spring basketball graduates that did not show at graduation. Perhaps the "full" story will come out if Paul ever does another Union Street Hoops. ;)
Perhaps we get a hint when Bakari talked about how his new coach will back his players. I would guess that Lottich tried to get him to act a bit more maturely on the court. I f that's the case, it may speak to a couple other transfers.
Quote from: valpotx on July 12, 2019, 01:27:22 AM
Iowa is in trouble, if they expect Evelyn to be an upgrade. He was terrible last season, and as others have said, seemed to be extremely selfish.
Evelyn may flourish under a different coach, in a different system, with different teammates but the fact that this is his third team casts reasonable doubt. Lottich's strategy, system, and personality management are by no means proven so I would imagine it was easy for certain "spirited" players (especially those with vocal and active handlers) to challenge him as if they were franchise players. The results were predictable; discord, poor performance, and the realization that an inexperienced mid-major coach will insist on establishing his system because he'll be dependent upon it more than on finding an NBA first-round pick. Time will tell if Lottich was inflexible or incapable, but I will say that, based on my taste for emotionally-disciplined players, I won't miss some of the departed players (while still wishing them well). The best outcome will be that they turn out to be good players because they're playing in the right system and that Valpo does better with a less-hyped but more team-oriented squad.
Might this be a kid we could take a chance on and redshirt?
http://www.verbalcommits.com/players/samba-kane
Quote from: vu72 on July 13, 2019, 08:46:52 AM
Might this be a kid we could take a chance on and redshirt?
http://www.verbalcommits.com/players/samba-kane
Valpo has a good history of being a good landing spot for young Senegal big men
Quote from: VU2014 on July 13, 2019, 12:58:37 PM
Quote from: vu72 on July 13, 2019, 08:46:52 AM
Might this be a kid we could take a chance on and redshirt?
http://www.verbalcommits.com/players/samba-kane
Valpo has a good history of being a good landing spot for young Senegal big men
And his first name is not Moussa! :-)
Unfortunately, I think the days of redshirting players for their own good are over.
Quote from: humbleopinion on July 12, 2019, 10:47:23 AM
Perhaps we get a hint when Bakari talked about how his new coach will back his players. I would guess that Lottich tried to get him to act a bit more maturely on the court. I f that's the case, it may speak to a couple other transfers.
His new coach will "back his players".
I repeat. Lottich kept playing Bakari after every fan had given up on him, continuing to put him in key situations when all of us would have had him on the bench. If that is not the definition of having a players back I don't know what it is. Actions are louder than words. Perhaps that is Lottich's fatal flaw, he backs his players with his actions and not his words, but he is a coaching a generation who needs constantly reminded with words. It is the affirmation generation.
Quote from: SanityLost17 on July 15, 2019, 07:44:12 AM
Quote from: humbleopinion on July 12, 2019, 10:47:23 AM
Perhaps we get a hint when Bakari talked about how his new coach will back his players. I would guess that Lottich tried to get him to act a bit more maturely on the court. I f that's the case, it may speak to a couple other transfers.
His new coach will "back his players".
I repeat. Lottich kept playing Bakari after every fan had given up on him, continuing to put him in key situations when all of us would have had him on the bench. If that is not the definition of having a players back I don't know what it is. Actions are louder than words. Perhaps that is Lottich's fatal flaw, he backs his players with his actions and not his words, but he is a coaching a generation who needs constantly reminded with words. It is the affirmation generation.
Would you please posting the link to the article where Evelyn said that? I don't see any mention of his new coach having his back in the story linked a few posts up.
Quote from: wh on July 15, 2019, 09:02:34 AM
Quote from: SanityLost17 on July 15, 2019, 07:44:12 AM
Quote from: humbleopinion on July 12, 2019, 10:47:23 AM
Perhaps we get a hint when Bakari talked about how his new coach will back his players. I would guess that Lottich tried to get him to act a bit more maturely on the court. I f that's the case, it may speak to a couple other transfers.
His new coach will "back his players".
I repeat. Lottich kept playing Bakari after every fan had given up on him, continuing to put him in key situations when all of us would have had him on the bench. If that is not the definition of having a players back I don't know what it is. Actions are louder than words. Perhaps that is Lottich's fatal flaw, he backs his players with his actions and not his words, but he is a coaching a generation who needs constantly reminded with words. It is the affirmation generation.
Would you please posting the link to the article where Evelyn said that? I don't see any mention of his new coach having his back in the story linked a few posts up.
I really wish I could. When I posted, I had been linked to a story that talked about McCaffery's emotional style and had the quote from Evelyn about feeling good about being backed by his coach. Now I can't find it. Bizarre.
Let's move on from Bakari, he's moved on from us.
I'm happy to help. Everyone click on the story!!!
https://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/valparaiso-university/former-valpo-guard-bakari-evelyn-joins-iowa-hawkeyes/article_37fbf213-71a6-564d-b4c9-452a73622532.html
Bakari said about his new coach: "What I know for sure is that he fights for his players. He has the back of his team and his players." He is not saying anything different than those on this board have said in the past. We all want a coach who will stand up for his players. His reference may have nothing to do with Lottich; however, how many times did some of us criticize Lottich for not being more forceful with officials, especially after horrible calls against Valpo players? Lottich is entering his fourth year as head coach and, unless I missed something, we're still waiting to see his first technical foul.
Than
Quote from: Pgmado on July 15, 2019, 12:27:21 PM
I'm happy to help. Everyone click on the story!!!
https://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/valparaiso-university/former-valpo-guard-bakari-evelyn-joins-iowa-hawkeyes/article_37fbf213-71a6-564d-b4c9-452a73622532.html
Thanks, Paul. I feel better about my sanity.
Quote from: valpopal on July 15, 2019, 03:46:08 PM
Bakari said about his new coach: "What I know for sure is that he fights for his players. He has the back of his team and his players." He is not saying anything different than those on this board have said in the past. We all want a coach who will stand up for his players. His reference may have nothing to do with Lottich; however, how many times did some of us criticize Lottich for not being more forceful with officials, especially after horrible calls against Valpo players? Lottich is entering his fourth year as head coach and, unless I missed something, we're still waiting to see his first technical foul.
I don't dislike Bakari at all, but it's tough for a coach to argue for every foul-(no)call Bakari complained about the last 2 years. Lottich would lose all credibility if he did that. I think Lottich was way too apprehensive when it came to disagreeing with the refs his 1st season in the MVC but less so last year. It is pretty surprising that a guy as competitive as Lottich hasn't got T'd up yet. But to be honest, a lot of people are so "fed up" (non-believers) in Lottich that we're close to people start knit picking the guy for neck-tie selections on game night. The pendulum has swung to being way too overly critical from some fans, imo.
Side note: It's been interesting to see how the narrative about Lottich around the league among other fan-bases has largely been influenced by the negativity on this board and by some people on twitter.
I'm not defending Lottich, but he's had some tough breaks that many are quick to forget about or don't want to acknowledge. Bottomline, he and the team need to be better, but I don't think he's the lost cause many seem to believe he is. It certainly should be a make or break year. He doesn't need to win the league to keep his job, but the program sure as hell better point in the right direction or else he will become a sad foot-note in Valpo Basketball history.
Quote from: VU2014 on July 15, 2019, 05:12:27 PM
Quote from: valpopal on July 15, 2019, 03:46:08 PM
Bakari said about his new coach: "What I know for sure is that he fights for his players. He has the back of his team and his players." He is not saying anything different than those on this board have said in the past. We all want a coach who will stand up for his players. His reference may have nothing to do with Lottich; however, how many times did some of us criticize Lottich for not being more forceful with officials, especially after horrible calls against Valpo players? Lottich is entering his fourth year as head coach and, unless I missed something, we're still waiting to see his first technical foul.
I don't dislike Bakari at all, but it's tough for a coach to argue for every foul-(no)call Bakari complained about the last 2 years. Lottich would lose all credibility if he did that. I think Lottich was way too apprehensive when it came to disagreeing with the refs his 1st season in the MVC but less so last year. It is pretty surprising that a guy as competitive as Lottich hasn't got T'd up yet. But to be honest, a lot of people are so "fed up" (non-believers) in Lottich that we're close to people start knit picking the guy for neck-tie selections on game night. The pendulum has swung to being way too overly critical from some fans, imo.
Side note: It's been interesting to see how the narrative about Lottich around the league among other fan-bases has largely been influenced by the negativity on this board and by some people on twitter.
I'm not defending Lottich, but he's had some tough breaks that many are quick to forget about or don't want to acknowledge. Bottomline, he and the team need to be better, but I don't think he's the lost cause many seem to believe he is. It certainly should be a make or break year. He doesn't need to win the league to keep his job, but the program sure as hell better point in the right direction or else he will become a sad foot-note in Valpo Basketball history.
He's also only likely in the $250k range (made $225k his first season) for salary, and Bryce was making less than $500k in his last year, so it's not like Valpo's going to break the bank for a head coach. I think patience is definitely needed. JFL is going to be a stud, and Donovan Clay certainly has the athleticism to turn some heads as well.
Quote from: VU2014 on July 15, 2019, 05:12:27 PM
Quote from: valpopal on July 15, 2019, 03:46:08 PM
Bakari said about his new coach: "What I know for sure is that he fights for his players. He has the back of his team and his players." He is not saying anything different than those on this board have said in the past. We all want a coach who will stand up for his players. His reference may have nothing to do with Lottich; however, how many times did some of us criticize Lottich for not being more forceful with officials, especially after horrible calls against Valpo players? Lottich is entering his fourth year as head coach and, unless I missed something, we're still waiting to see his first technical foul.
I don't dislike Bakari at all, but it's tough for a coach to argue for every foul-(no)call Bakari complained about the last 2 years. Lottich would lose all credibility if he did that.
Nobody expected Lottich to argue every bad call to the extent of a technical...but
at least once in three years would have been nice, and it didn't have to be Bakari, backing any of the players would have been fine.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on July 15, 2019, 10:21:17 AM
Let's move on from Bakari, he's moved on from us.
Backaree who?
Give me Lottich any day over a coach who gets suspended for chasing down a referee and cursing him out after a game is over.
Quote from: vusupporter on July 16, 2019, 09:17:53 AM
Give me Lottich any day over a coach who gets suspended for chasing down a referee and cursing him out after a game is over.
There is a middle ground between a milquetoast and a madman. Plus the idea of backing players goes beyond arguing with officials to receive a technical foul. Let's not have short memories. How many times last season did folks on this board criticize Lottich's lack of fire or support for players in post-game conferences?
Quote from: valpopal on July 16, 2019, 09:36:32 AM
Quote from: vusupporter on July 16, 2019, 09:17:53 AM
Give me Lottich any day over a coach who gets suspended for chasing down a referee and cursing him out after a game is over.
There is a middle ground between a milquetoast and a madman. Plus the idea of backing players goes beyond arguing with officials to receive a technical foul. Let's not have short memories. How many times last season did folks on this board criticize Lottich's lack of fire or support for players in post-game conferences?
To come full circle. Bakari's new HC can be a madman. He throws tantrums on the court.
I don't think Bakari know Fran yet. You don't get to know who people really are after 1-2 times talking to them in an office setting. I think anyone can attest to this but you find a persons true stripes when $hit hits the fan.
Quote from: bbtds on July 16, 2019, 12:43:16 AMBackaree who?
Backareeeeevelyn
it's all one word.
Quote from: VUBBFan on June 27, 2019, 05:28:32 PM
Quote from: IndyValpo on June 27, 2019, 09:03:49 AMQuote from: Just Sayin on June 07, 2019, 08:18:06 PM1.) Moustaphan Diadne, Western Kentucky University, 6-9 https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/moustapha-diagne-2.html 2.) Kelvin Jones, Idaho State, 6-11 https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/kelvin-jones-1.html 3.) Colin McManus, Penn, 6-10 https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/collin-mcmanus-1.html 4.) Demola Onifade, Delaware State, 6-9 https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/demola-onifade-1.html 5.) Patrick Szpir, Chicago State, 6-9 https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/patrick-szpir-1.html 6.) Jethro Shusuwpa Mbiya, Mississippi State, 6-10 https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jethro-tshisumpa-1.html 7.) Dusan Kovacevic 6-10 Davidson https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/dusan-kovacevic-1.html 8.) Jalen Williams 6-8 245 Furman Jones https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jalen-williams-1.html 9. ) 3.7 star Kerry Blackshear 6'10" from Pennsylvania https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/kerry-blackshearjr-1.html
#8 to Cleveland State, #9 to Florida
And # 2 to Creighton.
#3 to Farleigh Dickinson
Note that #8 is available, he like several others have bailed on Cleveland State after Felton was fired.
-As the start of the pre-season trip nears, it looks increasingly that we won't be adding another player--opting instead to hold the scholarship for a possible mid-season transfer, who knows.
I did want to address the whole transfer thing, which is happening at an alarming rate and continues even at this writing. I just checked Verbal Commits and the total for this year is now up to 952!!!!! That is an increase of 200 over just 5 years ago. There are 351 D1 teams with 13 scholarships. That totals 4,563 possible players so 952 equals over 20%. That is chaos pure and simple. The redshirt year is a thing of the past, particularly at the mid and low-major level. We need a rule change.
If a team is losing 2-3 players per year to graduation, and 2-3 players per year to transfer (which may go up if there are several graduate transfers in a given year), then that is quite an attrition rate per year. With that kind of rate of transfer, it suggests that a majority of students would not graduate with the school that they started with.
I wonder if the transfer rate is high in mid-major and low-major conferences? I also wonder what the transfer percentage rate was for the MVC this year.
I have two reasons for asking those two questions. First, VU lost 5 players (almost 6) players to transfer. Most are graduate transfers. If that is average in relation to VU's peers, then I'm not sure that we can say that the number transfers this year was a valid knock against VU coaches. Second, this may further upset the balance of power between power conferences and lower conferences. Lower conferences have always relied on seasoned seniors to compete against P5 schools. If it cannot develop seniors, then it will be at a disadvantage. Plus, a larger part of an already smaller budget must be used on recruiting.
I agree, there needs to be a rule change. Otherwise, I could see non-P5 college basketball being in trouble.
Quote from: vu72 on July 26, 2019, 01:17:01 PMQuote from: vu72 on July 26, 2019, 01:17:01 PM-As the start of the pre-season trip nears, it looks increasingly that we won't be adding another player--opting instead to hold the scholarship for a possible mid-season transfer, who knows. I did want to address the whole transfer thing, which is happening at an alarming rate and continues even at this writing. I just checked Verbal Commits and the total for this year is now up to 952!!!!! That is an increase of 200 over just 5 years ago. There are 351 D1 teams with 13 scholarships. That totals 4,563 possible players so 952 equals over 20%. That is chaos pure and simple. The redshirt year is a thing of the past, particularly at the mid and low-major level. We need a rule change.
Correction: There are 353 D1 teams.
https://twitter.com/courtneyhoops90/status/1169775709365178369?s=21
https://twitter.com/courtneyhoops90/status/1169790660741873669?s=21
I don't think we really need another 6'1" shooting guard. That would really surprise me if we actually offered.
Quote from: vu72 on September 06, 2019, 01:06:41 PMI don't think we really need another 6'1" shooting guard. That would really surprise me if we actually offered.
Looks like he is going to ul-lafayette
Quote from: Just Sayin on July 27, 2019, 10:43:07 AM
Quote from: vu72 on July 26, 2019, 01:17:01 PMQuote from: vu72 on July 26, 2019, 01:17:01 PM-As the start of the pre-season trip nears, it looks increasingly that we won't be adding another player--opting instead to hold the scholarship for a possible mid-season transfer, who knows. I did want to address the whole transfer thing, which is happening at an alarming rate and continues even at this writing. I just checked Verbal Commits and the total for this year is now up to 952!!!!! That is an increase of 200 over just 5 years ago. There are 351 D1 teams with 13 scholarships. That totals 4,563 possible players so 952 equals over 20%. That is chaos pure and simple. The redshirt year is a thing of the past, particularly at the mid and low-major level. We need a rule change.
Correction: There are 353 D1 teams.
Update: 353 D1 teams time 13 players equals 4,589 players. The Verbal Commits site now has 1,002 transfers so that is almost 22% or almost 3 per team. Something has to change. Crazy stuff. An increase of 250 players (so far) in five years.
Comments from D Smits about his role at Valpo.
https://twitter.com/indystar/status/1185272698697650176?s=20
Glad they have a lot of players who can go off every night. I'm also glad we finally have the same situation.
Quote from: vu72 on November 02, 2019, 07:22:21 PM
Glad they have a lot of players who can go off every night. I'm also glad we finally have the same situation.
Eh, not really based on the exhibition results (for Butler).
Can someone post the article?
It will be an interesting exercise to look back at the end of the year at the players that left vs how we did as a team. Until then, I don't give a s*** about anyone not wearing a Crusader jersey.
A live look at Bakari's 2019-20 season...
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/8yfIqHvBX2C0E/giphy.gif)
...
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/f1137d08b487057b5a23c51296edc5ed/tenor.gif?itemid=8853565)
...
https://media3.giphy.com/media/9rapM0g7Hd4Kepm6mi/giphy.gif
...
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/Wvo6vaUsQa3Di/giphy.gif)
Quote from: VU2014 on November 02, 2019, 07:17:44 PM
Comments from D Smits about his role at Valpo.
https://twitter.com/indystar/status/1185272698697650176?s=20
Found this on Derrik's play during their two exhibition games in the Indy newspaper. Sound familiar?
Starting with Derrik Smits, the 7-foot-1 graduate transfer from Valparaiso showed some flashes of his skill but was limited to just 17 total minutes due to foul trouble and inconsistency. He was the only player on the roster to record a negative plus-minus in both contests. This is definitely concerning considering the Dawgs will need their true center to play significant minutes against bigger opponents. With that said, though, his performances should not send the fanbase into a negative frenzy.
Several roster members praised Smits for his leadership and attitude during a preseason media session and that should not be overlooked simply by two poor exhibition games. He is a veteran collegiate player that will not be dissuaded by a small sample size of struggle. Smits clearly wasn't a major offensive threat in the preseason but his post scoring should be a very minor worry. The biggest keys for him will be continued defensive development and improving his willingness to pass.
Quote from: vu72 on November 03, 2019, 08:28:11 AM7-foot-1 graduate transfer from Valparaiso showed some flashes of his skill but was limited to just 17 total minutes due to foul trouble and inconsistency. He was the only player on the roster to record a negative plus-minus in both contests. This is definitely concerning considering the Dawgs will need their true center to play significant minutes against bigger opponents. With that said, though, his performances should not send the fanbase into a negative frenzy.
Several roster members praised Smits for his leadership and attitude during a preseason media session and that should not be overlooked simply by two poor exhibition games. He is a veteran collegiate player that will not be dissuaded by a small sample size of struggle. Smits clearly wasn't a major offensive threat in the preseason but his post scoring should be a very minor worry. The biggest keys for him will be continued defensive development and improving his willingness to pass.
I think that quote did a great job of pretty much summing up Derek's complete Valparaiso career. Not sure why Butler would think they were getting anything different.
Quote from: FWalum on November 03, 2019, 09:22:26 AM
I think that quote did a great job of pretty much summing up Derek's complete Valparaiso career. Not sure why Butler would think they were getting anything different.
I don't think they do, but given that their Center position consists of sophomore Bryce Golden and freshman John-Michael Mulloy and an undersized Bryce Nze, they need Smits' experience and size. His exhibition performances were far below what he accomplished at Valpo, but it is an extremely small sample size. As long as he's a serviceable big on the offensive end, as a Butler fan, I'd consider that a successful season for him. Defensively he'll see far more 7 footers in the Big East, so that shouldn't be the issue that it could be in the MVC.
Quote from: IrishDawg on November 03, 2019, 11:16:05 AM
Quote from: FWalum on November 03, 2019, 09:22:26 AM
I think that quote did a great job of pretty much summing up Derek's complete Valparaiso career. Not sure why Butler would think they were getting anything different.
I don't think they do, but given that their Center position consists of sophomore Bryce Golden and freshman John-Michael Mulloy and an undersized Bryce Nze, they need Smits' experience and size. His exhibition performances were far below what he accomplished at Valpo, but it is an extremely small sample size. As long as he's a serviceable big on the offensive end, as a Butler fan, I'd consider that a successful season for him. Defensively he'll see far more 7 footers in the Big East, so that shouldn't be the issue that it could be in the MVC.
So knowing Butlers intentions, do you question why Smits accepted that roll?
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on November 03, 2019, 11:20:19 AM
Quote from: IrishDawg on November 03, 2019, 11:16:05 AM
Quote from: FWalum on November 03, 2019, 09:22:26 AM
I think that quote did a great job of pretty much summing up Derek's complete Valparaiso career. Not sure why Butler would think they were getting anything different.
I don't think they do, but given that their Center position consists of sophomore Bryce Golden and freshman John-Michael Mulloy and an undersized Bryce Nze, they need Smits' experience and size. His exhibition performances were far below what he accomplished at Valpo, but it is an extremely small sample size. As long as he's a serviceable big on the offensive end, as a Butler fan, I'd consider that a successful season for him. Defensively he'll see far more 7 footers in the Big East, so that shouldn't be the issue that it could be in the MVC.
So knowing Butlers intentions, do you question why Smits accepted that roll?
Smits was lazy defensively and selfish offensively. He wasn't committed to the program or his teammates (remember the "1 foot in/1 foot out" comment by Eron). Thus, I don't care why he went where he went or what his role is now that he's there. He's yesterday's news.
Quote from: wh on November 03, 2019, 02:33:36 PMSmits was lazy defensively and selfish offensively. He wasn't committed to the program or his teammates (remember the "1 foot in/1 foot out" comment by Eron). Thus, I don't care why he went where he went or what his role is now that he's there.
I think wh is expecting and hoping that Derrik can take to Butler exactly what he provided at Valpo. :popcorn: If---BIG IF---he suddenly becomes a controlled and disciplined contributor then I may have to rethink my position on Lottich.
Quote from: wh on November 03, 2019, 02:33:36 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on November 03, 2019, 11:20:19 AM
Quote from: IrishDawg on November 03, 2019, 11:16:05 AM
Quote from: FWalum on November 03, 2019, 09:22:26 AM
I think that quote did a great job of pretty much summing up Derek's complete Valparaiso career. Not sure why Butler would think they were getting anything different.
I don't think they do, but given that their Center position consists of sophomore Bryce Golden and freshman John-Michael Mulloy and an undersized Bryce Nze, they need Smits' experience and size. His exhibition performances were far below what he accomplished at Valpo, but it is an extremely small sample size. As long as he's a serviceable big on the offensive end, as a Butler fan, I'd consider that a successful season for him. Defensively he'll see far more 7 footers in the Big East, so that shouldn't be the issue that it could be in the MVC.
So knowing Butlers intentions, do you question why Smits accepted that roll?
Smits was lazy defensively and selfish offensively. He wasn't committed to the program or his teammates (remember the "1 foot in/1 foot out" comment by Eron). Thus, I don't care why he went where he went or what his role is now that he's there. He's yesterday's news.
No argument here, I was constantly torn between being frustrated with Smits or Evelyn more the last few years.
By the end of the year we'll know if the problem was them, Lottich, both, or neither. But y'all acting like a spurned ex girlfriend with these posts.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on November 03, 2019, 09:05:19 PM
By the end of the year we'll know if the problem was them, Lottich, both, or neither. But y'all acting like a spurned ex girlfriend with these posts.
Maybe. I don't really know. I think it's fair to take a shot at both players on court demeanors. As for Lottich, I tend to agree that we'll know if he's the right guy for the job, but there is just so much turnover with the roster I think we need to grade more on progress and development then wins and losses with this team.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on November 03, 2019, 09:05:19 PM
By the end of the year we'll know if the problem was them, Lottich, both, or neither. But y'all acting like a spurned ex girlfriend with these posts.
Of all people Cheese, you know the emotion of disgust as well or better. You enjoyed these two guys?
Let's be clear: I am glad each and every one of these guys are gone. But most of these attacks are moving into personal territory, for players that are no longer Crusaders.
This team has been stressful enough recently without worrying about guys that are no longer here. And if you think I'm emotional now, you should see the stuff I write out but don't post.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on November 04, 2019, 11:37:51 AM
Let's be clear: I am glad each and every one of these guys are gone. But most of these attacks are moving into personal territory, for players that are no longer Crusaders.
This team has been stressful enough recently without worrying about guys that are no longer here. And if you think I'm emotional now, you should see the stuff I write out but don't post.
Haha, wouldn't be enjoyable without your honesty!
Just wanted to say that I have a niece that was is in Derrik's class (she is currently interning at the Schlosskirche in Wittenberg) that said he was a really nice, easy to get along with guy. I don't want to disparage the young man personally, but as a former coach I would have to say that my athletic expectations were not met. I think that Derrik will continue to improve and barring injury will probably end up having a nice professional career and as a Valpo Alumnus I will continue to support his teams and accomplishments (well maybe not Butler so much). Is it true that without Derrik we would have been pretty awful... yes, did we have any other choice after Fazekas went down... no. Wouldn't it have been wonderful if Derrik had been a taller version of Kevin van Wijk, would that have been too much to ask? ::)
2019-2020 Big East Preseason Rankings
by Aidan Curran
Oct 20, 6:50 PM
8. Butler
2018-19 Record: (16-17, 7-11)
2018-19 Big East Finish: T-8th
"The Bulldogs are hoping that 7'2" Valparaiso grad transfer Derrik Smits can help shore up a defense that took a step back last season."
https://www.google.com/amp/s/247sports.com/college/georgetown/Article/2019-2020-Big-East-Preseason-Rankings-137132736/Amp/
Smits line score for the Butler win over IUPUI: DNP - coach used a 7-man rotation.
Smits line score for the Exh game with UIndy: 5 minutes, 1-3 shooting, 2 points, 0 rebounds, 0 turnovers, 0 assists.
hope that's what he intended.
Quote from: talksalot on November 07, 2019, 06:56:28 AM
Smits line score for the Butler win over IUPUI: DNP - coach used a 7-man rotation.
Smits line score for the Exh game with UIndy: 5 minutes, 1-3 shooting, 2 points, 0 rebounds, 0 turnovers, 0 assists.
hope that's what he intended.
Smits was unavailable due to a knee injury.
Sorolla. Cincinnati at Ohio State. 23 minutes, 3-3 for 6-points, 4 rebounds. In their exh game, he was 3-4 for 6pts in 16 minutes. Next up for Cincy is Drake.
Quote from: talksalot on November 07, 2019, 07:30:11 AMSorolla. Cincinnati at Ohio State. 23 minutes, 3-3 for 6-points, 4 rebounds. In their exh game, he was 3-4 for 6pts in 16 minutes. Next up for Cincy is Drake.
Looked like he played a bit more than he typically would have with their starting Center fouling out with only 13 minutes. Still, he had a nice game against a really good opponent.
I am very happy with the team we have now, but I do hope all the transfers have good years with their new teams.
Micah Bradford - #13 for Southern University.
Exhibition game against Wiley College.
Started. Fouled Out in 13.5 minutes, 1-2 (it was a 3). 2 assists, no turnovers...
Regular Season against Loyola-New Orleans.
Started 14 minutes, 1-4 from the field, 0-2 from 3pt, missed his free throw attempt, 2 rebounds, 2 assists, 4 turnovers, 1 block, 1 foul
(Coach played all 13 rostered players, won by 17 but it was close until late second-half
Bakari Evelyn #4 - University of Iowa
Played one Exhibition game against Lindsey Wilson College (Columbia, KY) and won 96-58
Bakari played 16:46 in the game, was 0-2 shooting, both were 3-ptrs. Had no rebounds, 2 fouls, 1 steal and 1 block, a +14 on the efficiency chart. He was 4th player off the bench.
Their season opener is against SIUE on Friday night at Carver-Hawkeye.
Joining the three redshirts on the roster this season will be newcomers: Bakari Evelyn, Joe Toussaint, Patrick McCaffery, and Aidan Vanderloo. Evelyn is a graduate transfer from Valparaiso, while
Toussaint, McCaffery and Vanderloo (walk-on) are true freshmen.
Fran McCaffery enters his 10th season as head coach of the Hawkeyes and signed his first graduate transfer this past July. Bakari Evelyn, a naÅ ve of Detroit, played the previous two seasons
at Valparaiso (2017-18) and his freshman year at Nebraska (2016).
Last season at Valparaiso, Evelyn tied for first on the team in 3-pointers made (48), ranked second in assists (68) and fifth in scoring (8.4 ppg). He led the team in steals and assists in six
games, and scoring three games. As a sophomore, Evelyn was a Missouri Valley Conference All Newcomer Team selection and was named co-MVP of the Savannah
Invitational. He was the only Crusader to start all 32 games, ranking second on the team in scoring (12.6 ppg) and first in assists (93). Evelyn saw limited action in 18 games as a freshman at Nebraska.
Quote from: vuny98 on November 07, 2019, 09:05:48 AM
Quote from: talksalot on November 07, 2019, 07:30:11 AMSorolla. Cincinnati at Ohio State. 23 minutes, 3-3 for 6-points, 4 rebounds. In their exh game, he was 3-4 for 6pts in 16 minutes. Next up for Cincy is Drake.
Looked like he played a bit more than he typically would have with their starting Center fouling out with only 13 minutes. Still, he had a nice game against a really good opponent.
I am very happy with the team we have now, but I do hope all the transfers have good years with their new teams.
Jay is the backup center behind Chris Vogt, a junior transfer from NKU who received an immediate eligibility waiver. How Vogt managed that I don't quite understand as NKU is less than 10 miles from UC, so don't see a hardship issue. Jay held his own against Ohio State's bigs, doing pretty much the same things he did for Valpo, setting screens, scoring the occasional put back or dunk off the pick and roll, getting an assist by making a backdoor pass. Nothing spectacular, but serviceable.
Quote from: nkvu on November 07, 2019, 05:54:17 PM
Quote from: vuny98 on November 07, 2019, 09:05:48 AM
Quote from: talksalot on November 07, 2019, 07:30:11 AMSorolla. Cincinnati at Ohio State. 23 minutes, 3-3 for 6-points, 4 rebounds. In their exh game, he was 3-4 for 6pts in 16 minutes. Next up for Cincy is Drake.
Looked like he played a bit more than he typically would have with their starting Center fouling out with only 13 minutes. Still, he had a nice game against a really good opponent.
I am very happy with the team we have now, but I do hope all the transfers have good years with their new teams.
Jay is the backup center behind Chris Vogt, a junior transfer from NKU who received an immediate eligibility waiver. How Vogt managed that I don't quite understand as NKU is less than 10 miles from UC, so don't see a hardship issue. Jay held his own against Ohio State's bigs, doing pretty much the same things he did for Valpo, setting screens, scoring the occasional put back or dunk off the pick and roll, getting an assist by making a backdoor pass. Nothing spectacular, but serviceable.
Of all our transfers, Jay was the only one I really hoped would change his mind. Serviceable is a quality we still need at C. Good player imo.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on November 07, 2019, 06:16:03 PMOf all our transfers, Jay was the only one I really hoped would change his mind.
My thoughts exactly. I'm not sure he would have made us that much better as a team but he could have broadly expanded our strategic options.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on November 07, 2019, 06:16:03 PMQuote from: nkvu on November 07, 2019, 05:54:17 PMQuote from: vuny98 on November 07, 2019, 09:05:48 AMQuote from: talksalot on November 07, 2019, 07:30:11 AMSorolla. Cincinnati at Ohio State. 23 minutes, 3-3 for 6-points, 4 rebounds. In their exh game, he was 3-4 for 6pts in 16 minutes. Next up for Cincy is Drake.
Looked like he played a bit more than he typically would have with their starting Center fouling out with only 13 minutes. Still, he had a nice game against a really good opponent. I am very happy with the team we have now, but I do hope all the transfers have good years with their new teams.
Jay is the backup center behind Chris Vogt, a junior transfer from NKU who received an immediate eligibility waiver. How Vogt managed that I don't quite understand as NKU is less than 10 miles from UC, so don't see a hardship issue. Jay held his own against Ohio State's bigs, doing pretty much the same things he did for Valpo, setting screens, scoring the occasional put back or dunk off the pick and roll, getting an assist by making a backdoor pass. Nothing spectacular, but serviceable.
Of all our transfers, Jay was the only one I really hoped would change his mind. Serviceable is a quality we still need at C. Good player imo.
That's not including the one transfer that DID change his mind right? ;)
Sometimes you get addition by subtraction and in the case of Smits and Evelyn I believe that to be the case. It will open up opportunities for others to step up. What I saw, especially last year, was both were given several opportunities and touches and minutes and the production just was not there. I have nothing personal against either of these young men and in the case of Smits my daughter had a similar experience as FWAlum's niece, Derrick gave her a ride to her apartment after class on a very cold and rainy day. As a father I appreciate that but I think they're in better situations personally and I think Valpo is better off as well. Hey a win/win!!!
Might as well fill out the dance card on our departed xfers with Marcus Golder.
Portland State opened its season with an exhibition against Evergreen State. Marcus was not listed in the box score (injured??)
First regular season game was 11/5 vs. Puget Sound 94-69 WIN
GOLDER:
15 min (tied for 2nd fewest minutes in the game). Slowly coming off injury????,
2-4 FG, 1-2 FT = TOT 5 Points
1 TO, 1 Blk, 1 Stl
He didn't get granted a waiver until hours before their regular season opener.
Quote from: VULB#62 on November 08, 2019, 03:09:13 PM
Might as well fill out the dance card on our departed xfers with Marcus Golder.
Portland State opened its season with an exhibition against Evergreen State. Marcus was not listed in the box score (injured??)
First regular season game was 11/5 vs. Puget Sound 94-69 WIN
GOLDER:
15 min (tied for 2nd fewest minutes in the game). Slowly coming off injury????,
2-4 FG, 1-2 FT = TOT 5 Points
1 TO, 1 Blk, 1 Stl
Huh? Grad transfer, right? No brainer, right? Almost automatic, right? Someone at PSU asleep at the switch?
Even if his waiver didn't show up till hours before, shouldn't he have been in game shape from practicing all summer and participating in preseason practices while waiting? Could it be that he is actually #7 or #8 there?
Hmmm. Those were all questions. Didn't realize it until I reread what I was going to post. Even so, I wonder if they are valid (that's a statement, not a question ;D ).
Marcus had surgery on June 5th to repair the ankle he injured last season. I am sure that would have an affect on early playing time. There was also some talk on Twitter about VU and a graduation issue that was not really explained.
#4 Bakari Evelyn... and to also give a little preview of game #3... the Iowa box score on their 87-60 win over SIUE
https://hawkeyesports.com/documents/2019/11/8//SIUE_IOWA.pdf
5pts (one three pointer and 2-FTs, a rebound, an assist and a turnover in 15 minutes... third player off the bench.
SIUE had 11 players with between 17 and 23 minutes of playing time...and all of those 11 were negative in the efficiency +/-
I think Golders team is back in state prepping to get pounded by IU.
Quote from: FWalum on November 09, 2019, 12:57:19 AM
Marcus had surgery on June 5th to repair the ankle he injured last season. I am sure that would have an affect on early playing time. There was also some talk on Twitter about VU and a graduation issue that was not really explained.
OK, that explains the minutes and results. Given the standard post-surgery recovery time plus carefully transitioning back to his usual style of play, he, indeed, must be playing his way back onto game shape. Always enjoyed the kid's enthusiasm and athleticism. BTW, I checked his Twitter feed yesterday and noticed he posted a shout out to VUBB on the Toledo win.
Marten Linssen had 10 points for UNCW as they hosted North Carolina last night.
Quote from: vusupporter on November 09, 2019, 08:22:03 AM
Marten Linssen had 10 points for UNCW as they hosted North Carolina last night.
I'm not surprised. Even as a raw Freshman, he was way more active around the rim than either Smits or Sorolla. I predict he will be a very good mid major player by his senior year, if not before.
I bet JFL is breathing a sigh of relief today... RIP Northwestern.
Flipping around on ESPN briefly watched Middle Tennessee- Lipscomb. Spotted Parker Hazen right away. Playing some back up center he has 4 rebounds at halftime. Looks to be playing good defense. I certainly wish him the best. :thumbsup:
Remember Tate Hall who we were in on when he transferred from U Indy? Well feast your eyes on these numbers. This kid is good.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/4289536/tate-hall
Second leading scorer on Loyola
Second leading rebounder
Leading 3 PT shooter
Leads team in Steals.
With the news that Sorolla was leaving Cincinnati, I thought I'd take a look to see how the transfers from last year are doing on their new teams (This year top row, last year at Valpo second row).
Sorolla - Cincinnati
GP MIN FG% 3P% FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
15 10.9 58.3 0.0 61.5 2.4 0.6 0.1 0.1 1.0 0.5 3.3
27 17.5 51.1 100. 61.5 3.1 0.5 1.3 0.4 2.4 1.0 4.1
Smits - Butler
GP MIN FG% 3P% FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
12 11.1 53.3 0.0 76.5 2.0 0.6 0.1 0.1 1.8 1.0 3.8
32 21.8 59.4 0.0 61.3 5.7 0.8 1.0 0.4 3.0 2.0 12.2
Golder - Portland State
GP MIN FG% 3P% FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
23 17.4 43.7 28.0 72.2 3.3 0.5 0.5 0.7 2.2 1.2 6.0
31 25.0 43.0 29.8 75.0 3.8 0.9 0.2 0.8 1.6 1.1 9.2
Evelyn - Iowa
GP MIN FG% 3P% FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
22 16.0 26.9 27.0 81.8 1.4 1.8 0.0 0.4 1.6 1.2 2.1
32 28.7 33.6 30.6 76.9 2.4 2.1 0.1 0.6 1.9 2.0 8.4
Bradford - Southern
GP MIN FG% 3P% FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
22 24.6 36.1 32.9 74.2 2.0 3.5 0.0 0.9 2.7 2.0 8.6
1 3.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 1.0 0.0
31 16.4 34.2 27.5 49.0 1.5 2.2 0.1 0.7 1.9 1.2 5.1
Quick! Make Kiser a walk on again and grab Sorolla for the stretch run! (Kidding You made your bed Jay Sleep in it)
Quote from: vuny98 on February 04, 2020, 12:05:16 PMWith the news that Sorolla was leaving Cincinnati, I thought I'd take a look to see how the transfers from last year are doing on their new teams (This year top row, last year at Valpo second row).
Sorolla - Cincinnati
GP MIN FG% 3P% FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
15 10.9 58.3 0.0 61.5 2.4 0.6 0.1 0.1 1.0 0.5 3.3
27 17.5 51.1 100. 61.5 3.1 0.5 1.3 0.4 2.4 1.0 4.1
Smits - Butler
GP MIN FG% 3P% FT% REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
12 11.1 53.3 0.0 76.5 2.0 0.6 0.1 0.1 1.8 1.0 3.8
32 21.8 59.4 0.0 61.3 5.7 0.8 1.0 0.4 3.0 2.0 12.2
Looked up the final numbers for Derrik and I believe he was injured for a while. Anyway he appeared in only 17 games for a total of 164 minutes played. 53 total points, 29 RBs, 8 assists, 17 TOs, 1 steal and 4 blocks. Certainly not the season he or we would have wished for him.
And yes, I have forgiven him for jumping ship.
Who cares? We're clearly better off without him. I hope he does well in his future endeavors but it's clear that the transfer was bad for him and terrific for us.
Just Ducky said:
And yes, I have forgiven him for jumping ship.
So DS finally jumped.
In some alternate universe our senior bigs stayed and we never got Krikke on scholarship and McMillan never got enough playing time to improve (which he did improve...A LOT...although he has a ways to go). Sorolla/Smits leaving was huge as I think Krikke is going to be great and McMillan will have a very solid senior season.
Valpo won that offseason by hundreds of miles. It's totally clear now. We should be thankful each and every one of them left. The only one we needed to stay was JFL and he did. Now he's the most integral part of our team going forward and we have one of the brightest futures of any team in the country. I am excited and everyone else should be too! Go Valpo! I BELIEVE!
Is Nick Robinson for sure transferring? He has an extra year of eligibility but with all the mid season drama, I'm wondering if he was confirmed transferring or not? He's a Dad now so I'm not sure if he wants to start working as soon as possible. But I'd certainly welcome him back. At first I took Nick's side 100% but I see both sides position in hindsight. Valpo was playing covid hot spots every week and you can't have guys practicing and not playing because it steals the focus of the team and you need continuity especially for that team at that point in the season and they did play a lot better when when they were out of quarantines and able to finally practice. But I 100% support Nick's decision to sit out the rest of the season because of the health concerns for his son and partner. It's quite admirable. I just wish everything could have been kept in house and not aired any business to the public. Nick didn't quit on the Team and Coach Lottich didn't quit on the Nick. He helped set him up in a safer apartment for him and his apartment when his Son was born. Just a tough situation.
I'd love to see Nick back but reading the tea leaves I'm not sure that's possible. I think it would really benefit Nick by getting another year to show scouts his talent and be a senior leader with Zion on the Team. Do players only get an extra year of eligibility with their current Teams? Anyone know?
I believe I saw a tweet earlier that Nick had entered the Transfer Portal. That letter felt like he had cut ties with the program to me but nothings permanent until it's official, I guess.
Yes you only get the extra year with your current team.
Tons of players in the portal already. Going to be wild.
Quote from: crusader05 on March 08, 2021, 04:27:21 PM
I believe I saw a tweet earlier that Nick had entered the Transfer Portal. That letter felt like he had cut ties with the program to me but nothings permanent until it's official, I guess.
Yep you are correct. Nick has left the program officially. If this was his last year of eligibility, how would he get an additional year if not with Valpo? Maybe he didn't play enough game(?) but I thought that only applies to injuries.
https://twitter.com/jakelieberman2/status/1360347265471139840?s=21
Elephtheria47,
Yes agree it's going to be a wild offseason for transfers. I'n hoping Valpo doesn't get bit with the transfer bug again. Valpo fans have some scar tissue.
I'm bracing myself for transfers because we've been burned before. The best way of building a program at the Mid-Major level is obviously having talent but then keeping that young talent together until they are Seniors in order to build chemistry and learn/grow together. We have the young talent and more on the way, but will they stay and grow together? That's the important thing.
Quote from: elephtheria47 on March 08, 2021, 06:24:25 PM
Yes you only get the extra year with your current team.
Tons of players in the portal already. Going to be wild.
https://twitter.com/goodmanhoops/status/1369002996311470080?s=21
Everyone gets the extra year, regardless of whether they transfer or not. If they stay at the same school for their extra year, their scholarship does not count against the 13-scholarship limit. If they transfer, they still get the extra year, but their scholarship will count against their new school's limit of 13.
So just to clarify. Nick's transferring doesn't open up another spot for us to recruit right? In order for us to have another spot it would need to be someone who wasn't a senior already?
Quote from: crusader05 on March 09, 2021, 10:41:05 AM
So just to clarify. Nick's transferring doesn't open up another spot for us to recruit right? In order for us to have another spot it would need to be someone who wasn't a senior already?
I believe that's correct. We have 9 returning scholarship players and 4 freshman recruits that have signed LOI's for a total of 13. Unless someone transfers out, every player in their final year of eligilibility that returns under the COVID exception adds to our 13. That said, increasing scholarships above 13 only applies to this year. For example, Daniel will be a senior next year. If he decides to return for a 5th season under the COVID exception, he will have to fill 1 of our 13 total scholarships.
Quote from: wh on March 09, 2021, 11:19:08 AMQuote from: crusader05 on March 09, 2021, 10:41:05 AMSo just to clarify. Nick's transferring doesn't open up another spot for us to recruit right? In order for us to have another spot it would need to be someone who wasn't a senior already?
I believe that's correct. We have 9 returning scholarship players and 4 freshman recruits that have signed LOI's for a total of 13. Unless someone transfers out, every player in their final year of eligilibility that returns under the COVID exception adds to our 13. That said, increasing scholarships above 13 only applies to this year. For example, Daniel will be a senior next year. If he decides to return for a 5th season under the COVID exception, he will have to fill 1 of our 13 total scholarships.
This is going to cause such a mess for the next four years...
Looks like Steven Helm has put his name in the transfer portal too
and. Sigurd Lorange
Over 300 names in the portal.
Neither of those two surprise me. Siggy just isn't going to get the minutes. Steve doesn't have a scholarship here so why not throw your name out there and see if someone bites. I wonder this year too if we see a lot more people who look to transfer but don't have options.
It's a huge gamble, in my opinion. Grass is not always greener.
Yeah it's always a gamble for sure. But it's not like Siggy got much playing time here and Steve loses nothing really. He's a walk-on not paying anything to go to school here.
Quote from: crusader05 on March 09, 2021, 05:44:55 PM
Neither of those two surprise me. Siggy just isn't going to get the minutes. Steve doesn't have a scholarship here so why not throw your name out there and see if someone bites. I wonder this year too if we see a lot more people who look to transfer but don't have options.
Both of these guys need to step down a level if they want real playing time.
Speaking of transfers ... Indiana State has 2 of their top sophomores on the portal ... Jake LaRavia and Tre Williams plus 2 more. That hurts. Did see an interesting name on the list ... Jimmy Boeheim a 6'8 power forward from Cornell who was leading scorer, a Senior graduate transfer. Averaged 16.7 a game. He would be worth a look see.
Heard a name we're potentially recruiting, Kevionn Taylor. Grad transfer non-D1 out of Winona-state. Not sure how serious the interest is. He's a 6-5 wing.
Good for Helm and Siggy. They deserve to see if they can get any bites elsewhere. It would be tough if ISUb loses LaRavia and/or Williams. Unfortunately, that is what the transfer system has become. Go to a mid-major to get playing time, and see if you get any interest from a P5 after playing 1-2 seasons. If it were me, I would take it as a slight that they never looked at me in the first place, and want to beat those schools. To each, their own.
Certainly the ISUb transfers are in no small part driven by their coach getting let go.
I feel like using a perceived slight by power 5 teams during your recruiting is a poor reason to limit your professional basketball opportunities. If I knew I was not heading to the NBA, but that snagging 15 minutes a game at Clemson would net me $50k more in a Greek league versus playing in Puerto Rico? Yeah I'll take that.
I don't think we always put ourselves in the shoes of the athlete. They are making decisions based on a lot more factors than who sent them a pamphlet when they were 17.
ISU up to four in the portal. No shock about Siggy or Steve. I wouldn't be shocked in Daniel enters either. We have a LOAD of talent entering in this new class and its all on the perimeter.
Big Hit Clay just put his name in the Transfer Portal
https://twitter.com/DonovanClay11/status/1369712031570538496
Next to announce: D. Clay.
Will miss his defensive flexibility, won't miss his 20% 3 point shooting or 2+ turnovers per game. Best of luck to him, and lets find an upgrade.
Didn't see that coming. But perhaps it opens us up to picking up a power forward or center.
I am numb at this point
https://twitter.com/donovanclay11/status/1369712031570538496?s=21
I know some will shrug this off due to his regression this year and his dad's Twitter account. But man, this just can't keep happening year after year after year. As PO eluded to, experience matters in this conference. And Clay is basically a two year starter with 50 games under his belt.
That being said this is the nature of the D1 game right now. But we absolutely CANNOT lose another key contributor between now and next season.
I'm pretty sure Clay is being courted by P5 teams. He may come off the bench for them. I wish him the best.
It's so hard for Valpo, a small private school, to compete with the big conferences in terms of facilities, funding, and other benefits. Let's hope we find some quality replacements to supplement what we have.
Hopefully this is it. Goodness if he stays could be a pivotal player. He stated on his Twitter page that h just wants to play. Now that Clay is gone, his opportunities have grown exponentially.
Felt like this has been in the works for awhile. Had a disappointing offensive season and I don't think he or his Dad were happy that he wasn't a feature of the offense like Krikke was this past season. Combine that middling finish in the standings it felt like a real possibility.
It so damn hard build rosters that grow together in college basketball these days. Donovan is making a decision that he thinks is best for him and I can't fault that but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed...
His numbers had regressed so probably dad thought he needed different coaching. This is the reason why you'll never see a mid-major redshirt anybody.
WELCOME TO THE PRISON COLONY OF MID-MAJOR BASKETBALL, WHOSE PRISONER YOU ARE AND FROM WHICH THERE IS NO ESCAPE.
Ughhhh... I mean we could all see this coming but still... What is the point of Matt's supposed recruiting chops if he can't keep them once they're here? What value has Matt Lottich honestly brought to this program? Without Clay we're going to be in for yet ANOTHER inconsistent mediocre year with a "young team." We're always a young team because he can never keep anybody more than like two years! This NEVER happened under the Drews. I'm not there yet but I'm getting close to being a permanent member of the Fire Lottich faction...
I know this is difficult but we need to try to prioritise recruiting guys who want to be a student at valpo as well as to play on the basketball team. Given how easy it is to transfer now, no wonder we keep losing guys who have, from an outsider's point of view, little affinity to valpo outside of sport and basketball. I would be interested to see the statistics of how many of our recent impact non-grad transfers were kiniseology/sports management majors.
That's unfair of Lottich, as the college environment has changed so much since the Drews.
Even though we are struggling right now, it's why it was so important to bump up to the Missouri Valley. The Valley still has bright lights and can offer an avenue the majority of players are looking for (TV games, professional opportunities). Hoping Drake can squeeze their way into NCAAT this year too...Look at how few conferences are getting two or more into the NCAAT anymore. At least being in the MVC, we can get transfers transferring up and down (while also being able to lose players up and down). We just need to make it a point of getting into the top tier and then consistently staying there.
It's the new reality, and who can blame them when coaches could always move year to year but the players couldn't. It allows for more flexibility to fix your weak spots but also tougher to "build your team". I like D. Clay and was excited to see his potential. But, now that he put his name in the portal, there's nothing to make me believe that we can't recruit someone equally as talented. The first two made sense. Clay is disappointing, but it's not the falling of the sky.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 10, 2021, 01:01:10 PM
Ughhhh... I mean we could all see this coming but still... What is the point of Matt's supposed recruiting chops if he can't keep them once they're here? What value has Matt Lottich honestly brought to this program? Without Clay we're going to be in for yet ANOTHER inconsistent mediocre year with a "young team." We're always a young team because he can never keep anybody more than like two years! This NEVER happened under the Drews. I'm not there yet but I'm getting close to being a permanent member of the Fire Lottich faction...
Not sure it would help. In the last 9 years transfers have gone from 577 to 1030 and we are already over 300 now. Homer's last season 2010-2011 if I'm not mistaken so maybe there were a couple of hundred transfers his last year. We scout out underrecruited talent and hope their heads or their manager's head isn't too big. Thank goodness we're got big shooters coming in. That may have played a role as well. He knows he's got a shooting problem and when your bringing in guys as tall who can shoot, finally your playing time goes down and so does your chance to be "the star".
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 10, 2021, 01:01:10 PM
Ughhhh... I mean we could all see this coming but still... What is the point of Matt's supposed recruiting chops if he can't keep them once they're here? What value has Matt Lottich honestly brought to this program? Without Clay we're going to be in for yet ANOTHER inconsistent mediocre year with a "young team." We're always a young team because he can never keep anybody more than like two years! This NEVER happened under the Drews. I'm not there yet but I'm getting close to being a permanent member of the Fire Lottich faction...
I think regardless of who leaves and comes to this team next year, next season needs to be (for me at least) the final chance for Lottich. He'll have had 5 recruiting classes/offseasons to get the team he wants assembled. We have nothing but one lucky run to the conference finals to show for it. I'm glad we're in the Missouri Valley as the competition level as well as the perception of this league vs. the Horizon League is higher, but we need a coach that can not only recruit at this level, but retain his guys as well as be an X's and O's guy. I know everyone is going to say Lottich is locked in til the end of his contract, but I'm at the point of calling on Lottich being fired if the team doesn't show the needed progress next season. For me, that means at the very least a top 4 seed in the MVC as well as a postseason tournament appearance.
QuoteI know this is difficult but we need to try to prioritise recruiting guys who want to be a student at valpo as well as to play on the basketball team. Given how easy it is to transfer now, no wonder we keep losing guys who have, from an outsider's point of view, little affinity to valpo outside of sport and basketball. I would be interested to see the statistics of how many of our recent impact non-grad transfers were kiniseology/sports management majors./quote]
I really do think this is a part of the answer. If you want to recruit basketball first and only guys you need to give them something to stay in your slightly dimmer lights year in and year out.
The first is obviously high levels of success and higher levels of status. We used to have the first and now we have the second but I really think we need both still
The second is other avenues to inroads and success in the basketball world and I think this was a part of what helped Bryce out. To be coached by a former NBA player who still had connections and knew people? That type of networking or a coach with a little star power themselves can definitely help out in these situations.
I really do think at this point the goal needs to be good basketball IQ and solid players that are coachable and able to be built up have to be what you bring in next time around. This is becoming more and more of a businesses which is why I don't begrudge a single person who transfers necessarily but it's also why we may have to change up how or who we recruit cause just being a "family" isn't gonna be enough (nor should it be) for certain players
Donovan's offensive stats were miserable, yet Matt played him heavy minutes the entire season. What more could a coach do show his support and loyalty. Apparently, Donovan's dad (and probably Donovan) felt the offensive scheme didn't fit his game? I'll be interested in seeing what kind of offense turns a 20% 3-point shooter into 40%.
There are plenty of fish in the sea. Next man up.
At some point Donovan has to cut the cord and be his own person. Is dad going go with him on his Foot Locker interview in a couple of years?
Recruit kids like JO, who shoots 3's incessantly on his own every day of his life to improve his game and increase his value to the team, and the rest will take care of itself.
One other piece that I wouldn't' be surprised to see just effect a larger number of transfers in general is that, let's be honest, this entire year sucked. Obviously the level it sucked probably changed for each individual but there might have been just a large number of players out there that just didn't have a great year and that could lead to transferring whether it be to be closer to home, or start over someplace new or just put a gray cloud over everything. Plus the extra year just takes away any real penalty to transfer and i'll bet that for how loose the transfer market is this year it's gonna be super tight next year when those caps on scholarships really start taking effect and so it might have been a now or never year.
Quote from: wh on March 10, 2021, 01:54:42 PM
Recruit kids like JO, who shoots 3's incessantly on his own every day of his life to improve his game and increase his value to the team, and the rest will take care of itself.
Who actually wants to be at Valpo!
At some point one has to wonder why so many of our players who've played plenty of minutes keep transferring out. Is it simply bad luck? Lack of culture or leadership? I realize that transferring is so much more commonplace than it once was, but it certainly feels like an indictment of our program right now if it isn't a place that good players want to stick around.
I expect at least one more player to leave. But like it has been pointed out earlier the culture has changed in college basketball quite a bit over the past decades. Obviously Valpo needs to move on and fill these spots. So I'll put out this question ... what would you like to see brought in for a year or so to help stabilize the team. Graduate Seniors who are immediately cleared to play? More freshmen? Transfers who will need to sit out a year? some big questions to resolve obviously. With a freshman class that already has 4 players do we need to keep adding more and in the long run have a team that is top heavy in a single recruiting class? Interested to hear others thoughts.
Quote from: RS on March 10, 2021, 02:18:08 PM
I expect at least one more player to leave. But like it has been pointed out earlier the culture has changed in college basketball quite a bit over the past decades. Obviously Valpo needs to move on and fill these spots. So I'll put out this question ... what would you like to see brought in for a year or so to help stabilize the team. Graduate Seniors who are immediately cleared to play? More freshmen? Transfers who will need to sit out a year? some big questions to resolve obviously. With a freshman class that already has 4 players do we need to keep adding more and in the long run have a team that is top heavy in a single recruiting class? Interested to hear others thoughts.
It would appear that we will have plenty of good shooting guards and wings. I would think we need a "banger" on the inside like Prin. 6'9" 250# BOOM! We needed rebounds last year and though Donovan's rebounds were identical to the previous year, it still was 5.5 per game. I'd take an immediately eligible grad transfer before adding another freshman. Besides, the talented freshman candidates have already signed with other schools.
I agree. We need someone tough who can get in the paint, box out hard and get the rebounds. Someone who is physical and won't get pushed around. And can hopefully finish under the basket.
Quote from: vu72 on March 10, 2021, 01:21:01 PM
Not sure it would help. In the last 9 years transfers have gone from 577 to 1030 and we are already over 300 now. Homer's last season 2010-2011 if I'm not mistaken so maybe there were a couple of hundred transfers his last year. We scout out underrecruited talent and hope their heads or their manager's head isn't too big. Thank goodness we're got big shooters coming in. That may have played a role as well. He knows he's got a shooting problem and when your bringing in guys as tall who can shoot, finally your playing time goes down and so does your chance to be "the star".
72 is right. As much I would like to have Donovan Clay stay around, there are so many factors. It seems unlikely that the offense will be designed around him, especially with the competition for playing time. Would the team be better if he stayed? Absolutely, and wish him all the best in his next location.
It is too easy to blame the coach when players leave, as others have mentioned this is now fairly common. A case in point: Was it the coach's fault that Liam Robbins left Drake and had a successful year at Minnesota? Would Drake have been better this year with Robbins in uniform? Probably, yet we'll never know.
When your a star player at mid major, you tend to have more needs/or a very influential parent behind the scenes. Brandon Wood's dad, JFL's uncle etc...Sometimes a star player will use a mid major to develop and look for greener pastures (The Robbins kid at Drake). The difficult part is not landing the star player at a mid major, but developing that star player, when he goes through struggles on the court. In his fathers eyes Clay never looked comfortable in the role he played on offense, which contributed to his decline in numbers so we are going to explore our options. Is that the coaching staff's fault for not figuring out a role/court positioning that allowed his offense to blossom. Is it the opposing team's game planning for Clay? Or is the player's fault for a decline in statistics? Coaches can't shoot the ball for them.
I think it depends on if we end with just these 2 or if we end up with 3+ spots. I agree that we may see one or two more especially if say Morgan sticks around.
If Mileek doesn't come back or you lose Emil you try to find an experienced player with size for under the hoop and then you balance between graduate transfer experienced shooters who can drive the lane as well and a transfer or freshman with size as well.
I will miss Donovan but parents wanting to control every step that is taken are never a program loss when they get lost.
Quote from: vu72 on March 10, 2021, 02:30:05 PM
Quote from: RS on March 10, 2021, 02:18:08 PM
I expect at least one more player to leave. But like it has been pointed out earlier the culture has changed in college basketball quite a bit over the past decades. Obviously Valpo needs to move on and fill these spots. So I'll put out this question ... what would you like to see brought in for a year or so to help stabilize the team. Graduate Seniors who are immediately cleared to play? More freshmen? Transfers who will need to sit out a year? some big questions to resolve obviously. With a freshman class that already has 4 players do we need to keep adding more and in the long run have a team that is top heavy in a single recruiting class? Interested to hear others thoughts.
It would appear that we will have plenty of good shooting guards and wings. I would think we need a "banger" on the inside like Prin. 6'9" 250# BOOM! We needed rebounds last year and though Donovan's rebounds were identical to the previous year, it still was 5.5 per game. I'd take an immediately eligible grad transfer before adding another freshman. Besides, the talented freshman candidates have already signed with other schools.
Jake LaRavia, come on up!2020-21 SEASON STATS
(plays Donovan's position), Sophomore
6-9, 228 lbs. (Donovan 6-7, 205 lbs.)
PTS 12.3 (D 10.1)
REB 6.3 (D 5.5)
AST 2.3 (D 2.3)
FG% 47.3 (D 39.1)
3FG% 31.3 (D 20.2)
I don't think Emil will go - he's an engineering major and the only center on our roster
Critique him how you want, but Clay hands down was our best player. How many rushed shots did he have to put up because our offense is crap.
Something is fundamentally wrong with the Valpo program. We can spin this and say it's a national trend and the norm but we have some big issues.
Something tells me this will not be the last and will be a wild week with transfers.
Quote from: Chairback on March 10, 2021, 04:02:02 PMCritique him how you want, but Clay hands down was our best player. How many rushed shots did he have to put up because our offense is crap. Something is fundamentally wrong with the Valpo program. We can spin this and say it's a national trend and the norm but we have some big issues. Something tells me this will not be the last and will be a wild week with transfers.
Hands down our best player?? No. That is Krikke.
I would say we had 5 players that I did not want to transfer (Clay, Krikke, Jo, Edwards, Barrett), but as long as we keep Krikke and 2 others I am happy. Transfers are the norm, and we are in the unlucky spot of being right in the middle, so our good players want to move up and our players that aren't getting playing time want to move down. Can't fault the players for that nor can you put that all on Valpo when nearly every school deals with it. As a mid major, unless you are stacked and looking like a top 50 team thats a shoe in for the tournament (i.e. Loyola) you are going to get the transfer bug almost every year.
This doesn't really affect me, to be honest. It does not at all feel like JFL leaving, or Alec entering the portal. Clay was an offensive liability, outside of his occasional drives. His jump shot is really bad, and most of his looks were not rushed, as mentioned above. He missed plenty of wide open or earlier shot clock shots, which often came at critical times. He is a stellar defensive player, but if he goes P5, he is going to be a bench player that struggles to find an offensive rhythm, unless given the shot freedom like he had with VU.
I wish him luck and appreciate his 2 years, but I am not going to miss him as much, as I would have if he had left after a solid FR season last year.
Edit: I will add that I mentioned during several games, that Clay had completely checked out at times. This transfer is not a surprise. As to other posters mentioning that it is or is not ML's fault, it is hard to say. The amount of transfers nowadays is absolutely ridiculous. It is a generational change. It is the same attitude for many folks that graduated over the last few years, and always looking for the next best thing, versus trying to make a career at a single company.
Always tough to see a good player leave but I'm not going to blame Clay. I'm more upset at the NCAA for creating this situation in the first place. Just another example of the rich getting richer and the big getting bigger (See MLB and the minor league realignment)
Thinking back to something I said earlier about Donovan's dad's critical comments on Twitter, I should not have done that. When I was growing up I played sports year round, and my dad and mom never came to any of my games in anything. Finally, during basketball season of my senior year my dad was in the barber shop and happened to over hear someone talking about me. He mentioned it when he came home, so I said why don't you come to a game, and he did, and brought my mom. That was about half way through the season. They never missed another game. It meant the world to me. The last thing I should ever do is criticize parents for being overly involved.
Quote from: crusader05 on March 09, 2021, 05:51:25 PM
Yeah it's always a gamble for sure. But it's not like Siggy got much playing time here and Steve loses nothing really. He's a walk-on not paying anything to go to school here.
Helm also has the option to transfer his free tuition to another school if there is a tuition remission opening under the tuition remission program that Valpo is involved in. I wonder how many on this message board has used this program. A good friend of mine who's father was once a Vice President at Valpo used it.
I'd rather have someone who wants to be there and work hard on the team. The grass isn't always greener elsewhere. Clay was given a ton of minutes and a lot of opportunities this year, but he didn't have a good year and won't be hard to replace. I'll be interested to see where he ends up and wish him well. I can't see him moving to power 5 with the year he had and his jump shot.
Quote from: valpolaw on March 10, 2021, 08:42:00 PM
I'd rather have someone who wants to be there and work hard on the team. The grass isn't always greener elsewhere. Clay was given a ton of minutes and a lot of opportunities this year, but he didn't have a good year and won't be hard to replace. I'll be interested to see where he ends up and wish him well. I can't see him moving to power 5 with the year he had and his jump shot.
I think that he could have a Skara kind of career at a lower to mid level P5 school. Come off the bench for a year, get some starts the next primarily as a defensive specialist scoring the occasional basket. A contributor but not the focus, unless of course he finds his shot somehow. Then his ceiling could be higher. It would have to be at a school that is confident they can help him find it.
Thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to play ball. I love the university, the coaches, my fellow players, and the fans. I also love the university.
That being said, I'm getting the hell out of here.
Quote from: nkvu on March 10, 2021, 09:06:34 PMQuote from: valpolaw on March 10, 2021, 08:42:00 PMI'd rather have someone who wants to be there and work hard on the team. The grass isn't always greener elsewhere. Clay was given a ton of minutes and a lot of opportunities this year, but he didn't have a good year and won't be hard to replace. I'll be interested to see where he ends up and wish him well. I can't see him moving to power 5 with the year he had and his jump shot.
I think that he could have a Skara kind of career at a lower to mid level P5 school. Come off the bench for a year, get some starts the next primarily as a defensive specialist scoring the occasional basket. A contributor but not the focus, unless of course he finds his shot somehow. Then his ceiling could be higher. It would have to be at a school that is confident they can help him find it.
As we saw with Bakari a few years ago, a P5 team will take a guy like Clay in a heart beat. He has proven that he can play college basketball, has some skills and can complement a team. That being said, he likely won't start, but probably get a good 10-15 mins a game. The gamble on his end would be can he prove enough to work himself into a starting position. Assuming he goes to a lower level P5 school, I don't see why he couldn't over time if he finds his shot. Players like Clay sometimes need another guy to be the #1 and take the pressure off. This year, he was getting a lot of the defensive attention. He won't have that at a P5 school, so he may have the opportunity to take 5 shots a game, play good defense, and be a good role player. But he won't be the star.
Quote from: vuny98 on March 11, 2021, 08:20:14 AMso he may have the opportunity to take 5 shots a game, play good defense, and be a good role player. But he won't be the star.
Totally agree. With Bakari, he wasn't even starting at Valpo. I just don't understand the thinking unless it is people telling Donovan that he WILL be a star at a higher level. Otherwise
, why wouldn't he stay and be a starter. I guess the same could be said about JFL. He had some good games and did start but not being THE guy will not get him into a high level Euro league.
Bradley just lost three guys including Terry Nolan and McAdoo, two guys who beat us up pretty well.
And Bradly, although they struggled this year, is coming off two back to back years of winning the conference tournament(even if they missed out on dancing last year).
Just wanted to edit to add this tweet that was just sent out. It seems for this player at least some of it may have to do with how things were handled?
https://twitter.com/MLBLarry/status/1370028893134938112
I don't disagree with Terry, at all. Assuming that he was fully cleared, as he mentions, the current social climate calls for any sexual allegation to immediately cast guilt on the accused, once it hits the public eye. To be fair, it used to be the other way around years ago, where the accuser was ignored and belittled, which does still happen a bit. There has to be a middle ground where until you have some type of legitimate reason/proof to withhold playing time, that these players aren't immediately suspended.
And now we are officially have no seniors unless some of our current seniors come back. Sacky is in the portal. I get emotionally invested in these kids so it's hard to see them go. I am sure we will get equivalent pieces to replace the ones were lost (except maybe Donovan), and our freshmen will have lots of opportunities to become leaders on the court.
Quote from: bb33 on March 12, 2021, 11:18:53 AM
And now we are officially have no seniors unless some of our current seniors come back. Sacky is in the portal. I get emotionally invested in these kids so it's hard to see them go. I am sure we will get equivalent pieces to replace the ones were lost (except maybe Donovan), and our freshmen will have lots of opportunities to become leaders on the court.
Not shocked. The handwriting was on the wall--seriously reduced playing time. Indiana State has a flood is transfers including Cooper Neese.
Mileek just hit the portal too. Although it's not that much of a hit since he was a senior. We just don't get an extra year from him.
The transfer bug is now a pandemic. Thanks NCAA.
I currently share this view point right now.
https://twitter.com/TSeghetti11/status/1370430193282773001
I think the numbers are what's overwhelming but when you realize two are graduating seniors, one's a walk one and the other one only sees garbage minutes, it looks less overwhelming.
I think Good News can help the team a lot next year, so I hope he sticks around.
I agree only Clay was a real hit. He marks all the boxes and he has yet to realize his full potential. I think teams are going to take a chance on him. The seniors will get chances since they are immediately eligible. For the others, it's a big gamble. But maybe they were told to look at their options.
I do wonder if there's a feeling like (and I believe I said this already before) that this is the year to enter before the scholarship constraint really hits in and you need to be exceptional to get the spot or settle for transferring down.
So we are going to be young again?
I feel for Matt. Recruiting is the worst part of college coaching. Now, not only do you have to recruit players into your program but you have to recruit them to stay.
All these players transferring out over the years will hurt our APR if they don't graduate from the institution they end up landing at.
I mean still young but at least 4 of our incoming class got good minutes and showed signs. If we Keep Krikke, and have a Morgan or Gordon stay on. and recruit some post players with experience I don't think we'll lose that much.
Every frickin year this happens to Valpo. I'm so tired of the transfers. Sackey wasn't perfect but he's a very experienced senior PG. you can't make up for experience. And he was a team leader this hurts.
https://twitter.com/verbalcommits/status/1370418408093847555?s=21
I am very afraid of what this tweet means... after today's news
https://twitter.com/sheldonnn13/status/1370351870045216771?s=21
I can see Gordon staying. He's already in grad school and has one more year.
There are almost 380 names in the portal. I am sure the coaches are already looking for some quality replacements.
Cant afford Edwards leaving. He has a high ceiling.
If we lose Edwards and one of Kirke or JO, does Lottich get some heat? Or does he get a pass because a lot of programs lose players to the transfer portal.
While I appreciate everything Mileek and Sackey have contributed over their time here, this is of zero concern to me. I've been critical of both over the last few years, so this is not just a case of sour grapes for them leaving.
Sackey was not good this year. He wasn't much better before this year. Whether said to him explicitly or if he sensed it, he was not going to be a starter next year. He was given every opportunity to hold onto that spot and it did not work out.
Mileek was never during his time here able to give us consistency. He would foul out in 10 mins on the floor. Was hot and cold shooting and his defense and rebounding was not what it needs to be. He also was given every opportunity to hold a starting position and it did not work out. (one thing I will say in his defense is that he played out of position for much of his time here out of necessity, but that's also likely the reason he was given so many chances and minutes)
It would be nice to have either of them off the bench for depth, but late in their college career, I'm sure they want more than that. Either come off the bench some where bigger or start and play big minutes somewhere smaller.
The Crusader has now entered the Transfer Portal. ::)
Quote from: bb33 on March 12, 2021, 12:19:40 PMI can see Gordon staying. He's already in grad school and has one more year. There are almost 380 names in the portal. I am sure the coaches are already looking for some quality replacements.
Gordon is also on the Crusader name change committee, so I would suspect he accepted that role with some sense of commitment to the University.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 12, 2021, 12:16:37 PM
I am very afraid of what this tweet means... after today's news
https://twitter.com/sheldonnn13/status/1370351870045216771?s=21
Click on the tweet, and this reply pops up:
https://twitter.com/coachmikesouza/status/1370407132600930309
Some player development coach in Florida who obviously knows Sheldon well. "Talked with
coach yesterday." (What coach? Who?) "So happy for you
and what's to come." (What the heck does that mean?)
Putting his tweet and that reply together, my guess is he's gone. Sure hope I'm wrong.
If Lottich was totally honest with the players in their end-of-season meetings, I'm sure that both Mileek and Daniel would have heard that they should not expect to have increased playing time in the coming year. Some of you have a better idea than I do what happens in those meetings but I can certainly imagine that these two players were not pleased with what they heard.
Had to log in to my 5 year old account just to share some inside knowledge. I know some kids on the team. I hear players f*>'king hate Matt lottich. Dudes a douche. Take that how you will. Thank you, I will be taking no further questions.
Quote from: valpopal on March 12, 2021, 12:28:33 PMThe Crusader has now entered the Transfer Portal. ::)
I think he entered a few weeks ago. (Sorry, too soon. And yes I'm still bitter about it)
In all seriousness, these are names of players who've played a lot of minutes in a Valpo uniform, so it sure doesn't feel good to hear about them leaving. The silver lining is that they are not the future of the team. I do think next season will be very telling: we need to show some substantial improvement instead of just treading the waters of mediocrity as we have been since Peters graduated. imo bets are off this season given the circumstances, but we need wins and a relative lack of transfer-outs by this time next year for players, recruits, and us fans to feel confidence and excitement about the future of the program. If that doesn't happen, then we need to think hard about how to change the culture here.
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1370452693316206594?s=20
Breathe for at least one moment friends
Quote from: IndyEIT777 on March 12, 2021, 01:18:32 PMhttps://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1370452693316206594?s=20 Breathe for at least one moment friends
Maybe his cryptic tweet was more of a positive. Maybe Lottich sat him down and said with Clay gone, we want you to be the focal point of the offense.
Quote from: vuny98 on March 12, 2021, 01:36:14 PMQuote from: IndyEIT777 on March 12, 2021, 01:18:32 PMhttps://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1370452693316206594?s=20 Breathe for at least one moment friends
Maybe his cryptic tweet was more of a positive. Maybe Lottich sat him down and said with Clay gone, we want you to be the focal point of the offense.
I've heard this before... (Cough JFL Cough)... Yeah... I'm bracing for a transfer here and hoping I'm wrong...
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 12, 2021, 01:37:34 PM
Quote from: vuny98 on March 12, 2021, 01:36:14 PMQuote from: IndyEIT777 on March 12, 2021, 01:18:32 PMhttps://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1370452693316206594?s=20 Breathe for at least one moment friends
Maybe his cryptic tweet was more of a positive. Maybe Lottich sat him down and said with Clay gone, we want you to be the focal point of the offense.
I've heard this before... (Cough JFL Cough)... Yeah... I'm bracing for a transfer here and hoping I'm wrong...
Trust me, this is still in the back of my mind. However, JFL transferred supposedly due to family reasons. We have no further information regarding his transfer reasons so I'll trust him on that. It does seem like Sheldon based on his twitter action is more invested in the Valpo experience than JFL was.
I do agree with vuny98 that Lottich probably told him he's the guy on offense next year so that might be enough to entice him to stay.
Quote from: AlecPeters101 on March 12, 2021, 01:00:28 PM
Had to log in to my 5 year old account just to share some inside knowledge. I know some kids on the team. I hear players f*>'king hate Matt lottich. Dudes a douche. Take that how you will. Thank you, I will be taking no further questions.
Just looked at your old posts. Two things come to mind - you've hated Matt Lottich from the beginning, and I don't think you know anyone on the team or even anyone who knows anyone on the team. That doesn't make you all bad. In 2017 you called anyone who thought the university should get rid of the Crusader a pxxsy. Based on that post alone, I hope you start posting more often. ;)
Quote from: IndyEIT777 on March 12, 2021, 01:18:32 PM
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1370452693316206594?s=20
Breathe for at least one moment friends
I just took my first breath!!
It would break my heart if Connor or Sheldon (or JO) leave. Especially for the two guys who took a prep year, after not being not recruited too hard, Valpo took a chance on all three of these men. To me, our entire success as a program is built on these "diamond in the rough" type players and stories. To leave after having a season with some individual success would feel like a slap to the face.
Quote from: AlecPeters101 on March 12, 2021, 02:34:42 PM
I'm a college kid who went to vhs, I think that should narrow down who I know and what I know lol. Wouldnt make it up. Also I was a dumb high schooler then. I don't hold a lot of the same opinions from 2017 lol. The name change opinion I do still hold though 😎
Welcome back. :thumbsup:
Quote from: AlecPeters101 on March 12, 2021, 02:34:42 PM
I'm a college kid who went to vhs, I think that should narrow down who I know and what I know lol. Wouldnt make it up. Also I was a dumb high schooler then. I don't hold a lot of the same opinions from 2017 lol. The name change opinion I do still hold though 😎
So Steve Helm told you they fu##king hate Matt Lottich? Right, so very believable.
I don't care if you believe me, doesn't make it any less true. Just thought I'd share something from someone who is involved in the very thing we post about on this board.
I mean I'm not saying he's right but it could be legit. It would explain the player retention issues and the fact that Matt rarely takes responsibility for repeated poor performance with the same issues night in night out and repeatedly getting outcoached. Those are the hallmarks of one who would be disliked by those around him who probably know him best. Again I'm not saying he's right or that Matt is as described here but it certainly would explain a lot.
Good for Mileek. I don't take that as a loss on my side. It would be great if he returned, but I wasn't expected him back anyways, due to graduation. Sackey, same thing, but more tied to how much his skill set seemed to degrade this season. The guy cannot shoot...at all. He missed wide open layups...often. I have enjoyed his overall leadership and genuine affinity for the university, but if he needs a change of scenery to get rid of 'the yips' in his shot, more power to him. Still not worried at this point. I will actually worry if Sheldon, JO, Barrett, or Krikke announce such a thing.
Here's how the Sackey transfer search will go.
Sackey – Hi, I would like to play for your team
Coach – Great, tell me about yourself
Sackey – Well I'm really really fast
Coach – Awesome, so a great ball handler?
Sackey – Well, not really, but I am fast like I said
Coach – So you must have a great shot?
Sackey – Not so much no, but really, I am fast.
Coach – Can you at least hit a layup consistently?
Sackey – I can run to the basket fast, but could you define what you mean by consistently?
Coach – Ummm, let's try something else... You're fast, so you must be a lock down defender right?
Sackey – Well I can catch up to people and chase them around the court, you know, because of my speed. But I have some trouble defending due to my height.
Coach – Your height? Why how tall are you?
Sackey – I am 5'8", but I am listed as 5'9"
Coach - ...
Sorry that was mean... He seems like a great kid and I hope he finds success at his next stop. He hustles and puts in a lot of hard work. But he is not a starter at this level for what we need. As a role player off the bench he would be great.
Quote from: AlecPeters101 on March 12, 2021, 01:00:28 PMHad to log in to my 5 year old account just to share some inside knowledge. I know some kids on the team. I hear players f*>'king hate Matt lottich. Dudes a douche. Take that how you will. Thank you, I will be taking no further questions.
Thank you for sharing ;D
@Alecpeters101
I agree with your reporting. It's clear that the players don't respond/admire him the same way that they did for Bryce. I've also heard some rumblings about not connecting well with the coaching staff.
Just curious – do you have any information to further elaborate about why they think he is a "douche"? Is it a personality thing, like he is a jerk, or is it more of a basketball thing like they don't respect his coaching/knowledge/concepts/style?
Honestly don't know, I haven't had an extensive conversation surrounding it. Just kind of came up and I was surprised when I heard what was said.
Pretty interesting to hear this from a former Valpo Bryce Drew Manager & Graduate Assistant... "better situation". Hopefully it was not meant personally and is just referring to playing time.
https://twitter.com/kwo4/status/1370438751269314567?s=21
https://twitter.com/goodnewskpegeol/status/1368224522856435717?s=21
https://twitter.com/nwioren/status/1370507242445897729?s=21
Quote from: VU2014 on March 12, 2021, 05:25:31 PM
https://twitter.com/goodnewskpegeol/status/1368224522856435717?s=21
https://twitter.com/nwioren/status/1370507242445897729?s=21
Hmm, 12 different updates. Cryptic? How about 8 remaining scholarship players from this year's roster + 4 new recruits = 12?
Look you can put you name in and take it out. Let's not get too worked up about what we see right now until we see how the dust settles. I'm not sold that everyone that has their name in will leave.
On a positive note, there's been chatter that something very great could happen for us regarding transferring in it's early but will see if it happens. Stay positive guys.
Interesting that the transfer portal site already lists their prediction as 100% SLU for Clay.
don't be a tease :) If you know some info at least drop a breadcrumb or two for us to pore over and chase down rabbit holes
Still not too concerned. As others have mentioned, Sankey seemed to be detrimental to the team. Might be addition by subtraction.
Clay is obviously the biggest one. And I believe we will be able to sign someone equally as talented. It's a historic amount of transfers for a reason, everyone is putting their name in. And who knows how many may legit want to get back closer to home after a season with no fans, no social life, or even worse, family was allowed but your family was eight hours away.
Valpo still has name recognition. We play in the Valley. We have solid returning players. We have lots to offer and can be close to or at the top. It's always the sky is falling when the names out are announced, but now we have to make sure the names in are moving the needle and a good fit.
No comment or input on Matt Lottich as a person, other than I don't think he is the most personable guy, but that doesn't mean he can't relate or is a douche or anything else. As a coach I think he may be slightly improving and it's hard to gage with the turnover.
Guys, which is it? You can't have it both ways.....
You either have a transfer out problem at Valpo or we aren't recruiting good enough.
Sackey and McMillian can transfer, they aren't good enough.....Well then we shouldn't have recruited them or start them and play them so many games if they aren't good enough.
Look, players transferring out of Valpo at the rate they are is a problem, whether they are good or bad players. First of all, we are experiencing good and bad players leaving our treasured program. Second of all, maybe Lottich needs to recruit better players.
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 12, 2021, 08:39:59 PMGuys, which is it? You can't have it both ways..... You either have a transfer out problem at Valpo or we aren't recruiting good enough. Sackey and McMillian can transfer, they aren't good enough.....Well then we shouldn't have recruited them or start them and play them so many games if they aren't good enough. Look, players transferring out of Valpo at the rate they are is a problem, whether they are good or bad players. First of all, we are experiencing good and bad players leaving our treasured program. Second of all, maybe Lottich needs to recruit better players.
Or thirdly maybe Valpo needs to recruit a better coach but they won't because it's too expensive. Strap in everyone We've got like three more years of this...
It's also the imbalance in transfers in vs out. We seem to lose key contributors each year and the guys that transfer in aren't balancing that out. Clayton Custer transferred IN to Loyola, and Drake's whole team under this coach is built on transfers IN to the program.
Recruiting isn't just done in high school. And to be fair to Lottich he's brought some guys in from P5's. They just haven't really become key contributors.
We have, what, 2 or 3 open scholarships now. What I would be looking for is a Deion Lavender type point guard to come in and bring really solid overall play and a veteran presence at the one. With one of the other scholarships I would like to see a guy that can rebound and defend the paint. I'd be more flexible with that big guy because I know that isn't really the style our game-plan is centered around. But I think those two additions along with the freshmen coming in would make a respectable more consistent team that also has a bright future.
We need to be fair to Mileek, guys. He was very good last season, and showed tremendous improvement from his FR to JR seasons. The ONLY reason that he took a step backwards this season, is that he was playing hurt ALL season. The only reason I say that he is not a loss, is because he was expected to graduate and be done anyways, so it would have been a bonus if he came back to play for a fifth full season. I very much like Mileek, he is a Valpo guy, and I hope that he gets his Valpo degree, before finding great success as a Grad Transfer next season.
Perhaps someone can answer this question:
How many players who put their names in the transfer portal end up transferring?
The transfer portal has certainly increased the visibility for players who might be interested in a transfer, and the numbers taking this option have dramatically increased. Yet at least some might end up back at their original teams, and/or withdraw their names from the portal.
Part of the transfer portal "problem" is that it has become the thing to do. It's the college version of the obnoxious high schooler putting on the hat on NSD. Very much a "look at me I'm important" type of situation. So a player unhappy for nearly any reason announces that he's in the portal to allow him to feel better about himself.
Frankly, it is effin annoying and that is not at all a Valpo thing on my part. However Valpo must learn to play the game the players are playing and they need to play it better.
Basically, every year every teams roster must be re-recruited in its entirety.
https://twitter.com/nwioren/status/1370481202382172163?s=21
Not sure if I saw this posted here. So that's one "extra". Curious about Morgan as I feel like he has finally started to come into his own.
Quote from: JD24 on March 13, 2021, 09:40:52 AM
Part of the transfer portal "problem" is that it has become the thing to do. It's the college version of the obnoxious high schooler putting on the hat on NSD. Very much a "look at me I'm important" type of situation. So a player unhappy for nearly any reason announces that he's in the portal to allow him to feel better about himself.
Frankly, it is effin annoying and that is not at all a Valpo thing on my part. However Valpo must learn to play the game the players are playing and they need to play it better.
Basically, every year every teams roster must be re-recruited in its entirety.
I don't see the same trend we are seeing at Valpo of losing starters at Loyola. The new transfer rules don't seem to be affecting them. Wonder why.
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 13, 2021, 10:19:58 AMI don't see the same trend we are seeing at Valpo of losing starters at Loyola. The new transfer rules don't seem to be affecting them. Wonder why.
I've been hard on Lottich in the past but I'm not going to hold this against him. The NCAA has allowed the transfer bug to spread unchecked and mid majors across the board are being decimated. I think Loyola is the exception rather than the rule.
Quote from: mj on March 13, 2021, 10:37:27 AM
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 13, 2021, 10:19:58 AMI don't see the same trend we are seeing at Valpo of losing starters at Loyola. The new transfer rules don't seem to be affecting them. Wonder why.
I've been hard on Lottich in the past but I'm not going to hold this against him. The NCAA has allowed the transfer bug to spread unchecked and mid majors across the board are being decimated. I think Loyola is the exception rather than the rule.
I don't see very many teams who have had transfers of their starters or sig contributors bailing en masse for reasons other than a coaching change. Valpo has six in the transfer portal this year and several since the new transfer rules. I would venture to say that there are not many teams in any conference, mid or major, who have that many transfers excluding coaching changes and "not enough playing time" as the reason for the transfers. There definitely is something rotten within the Valpo coaching staff to have that many disgruntled contributors.
I've been off the grid a bit and out of the loop. Haven't posted on here this season but did watch all season. Wasn't healthy for me to be so negative about things and so forth when I recognized it doesn't really matter how I feel in the big scope of things.
That said, just wondering — was I see a lot of comments about having ML as our coach for 3 more years. Did he officially sign a contract extension? Assuming so based on these comments but just didn't know. I know it's a private school so details are known but just curious.
Hope everyone is well. Been a rough year in our world.
From "Mens Mid Major Top 25" collegeinsider.com Ranking and the number of players in the transfer portal:
1. Gonzaga 0
2. Loyola Chi 0
3. Winthrop 0
4. BYU 0
5. Drake 0
6. Liberty 0
7. Morehead State 0
8. Southern Utah 1
9. Toledo 1
10. Belmont 0
11. Abilene Christian 0
12. GA State 0
13. UCSB 0
14. Sam Houston 0
15. UNCG 1
16. E. Washington 0
17. Wright State 0
18. S. Dakota St. 1
19. Buffalo 1
20. Colgate 2
21. Texas St. 0
22. E. KY 3
23. Akron 0
24. Weber St. 0
25. Prairie View 0
26. Missouri State 0
27. Cleveland St. 0
28. Furman 0
29. St. Mary's 0
30. Wofford 3
31. Kent St. 2
32. Navy 1
33. Vermont 2
34. Ohio 0
35. Grand Canyon 0
36. Loyola Marymount 1
37. Norfolk St. 0
38. Pepperdine 1
39. UC Irvine 0
40. Stephen F. Austin 1
41. UC Riverside 1
42. Bryant 1
43. Utah Valley 0
44. Bowling Green 1
45. Nicholls St. 1
46. Louisiana 0
47. Siena 2
48. Jackson St. 0
49. N. Alabama 1
50. UMBC 2
51. Mercer 1
52. Pacific 0
Valpo: 6
I'm going to dumb this down for every college basketball player who is considering this year as a great year to explore for a transfer.
Just imagine D-1 basketball as being a 12' python with a fixed annual appetite approximating 2,310,000 available minutes. (Approx 350 teams X 33 games X 200 minutes per game) Relaxation of the redshirt transfer rules already had this serpent better fed than it ever had been. Then the NCAA covid ruling expands the potential food supply from 4,550 players (350 teams X 13 scholarships) to 5,688 (which is a 25% increase to the 4,550 base number) So picture this constrictor as just having swallowed a medicine ball sized turkey of mature talents (seniors with added eligibility). :o
So we now have Siggy, Nick, Mileek, Daniel, Donovan and thousands of others testing fate to see if the monster is still hungry. That pot of gold just over the horizon is more likely to be a rusted tin cup for most.
Good to see that Gordon is going to use the extra year to pursue/finish a graduate degree, and stay at Valpo. Seems like a kid that has a good head on his shoulders, and has his moments of good play. I think that he had an off-year shooting the 3, as he seems to be capable of being closer to 35-40%. We needed a veteran leader, and this gives us such a guarantee.
The only transfers that can be used to compare and contrast Valpo to other D-1 programs are Donovan, Siggy, and Daniel. A non-scholarship player announcing he wants to transfer is meaningless beyond description. As to this silly 5th year NCAA nanny state cluster fxxk, there are over 1000 players that could opt for another year. Some will, some won't (likely the majority). What if Nick and Mileek had simply chosen to get on with their lives. No one would have given that a second thought. But because they decided to extend their college career and want to do it where they can be a bigger cog in the wheel, that's somehow a negative reflection on Matt Lottich? Uh, no. For the same reason, our transfer number can't be compared to anyone else's transfer number. No one on this board has the slightest idea what to make of anyone else's players' decisions.
Quote from: valpotx on March 13, 2021, 01:08:59 PM
Good to see that Gordon is going to use the extra year to pursue/finish a graduate degree, and stay at Valpo. Seems like a kid that has a good head on his shoulders, and has his moments of good play. I think that he had an off-year shooting the 3, as he seems to be capable of being closer to 35-40%. We needed a veteran leader, and this gives us such a guarantee.
What if Eron had decided instead to take his diploma and move forward on his life's journey? Would that have been Matt Lottich's fault? Just asking for a friend.
Good points wh. Even if Nick and Mileek wanted to stay along with Eron and Zion do really think Valpo would have payed for extra scholarship players. I don't think so. With Aron staying Valpo will have at least one player to lead the younger players into the riggers of college basketball.
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 13, 2021, 12:01:22 PMFrom "Mens Mid Major Top 25" collegeinsider.com Ranking and the number of players in the transfer portal: 1. Gonzaga 0 2. Loyola Chi 0 3. Winthrop 0 4. BYU 0 5. Drake 0 6. Liberty 0 7. Morehead State 0 8. Southern Utah 1 9. Toledo 1 10. Belmont 0 11. Abilene Christian 0 12. GA State 0 13. UCSB 0 14. Sam Houston 0 15. UNCG 1 16. E. Washington 0 17. Wright State 0 18. S. Dakota St. 1 19. Buffalo 1 20. Colgate 2 21. Texas St. 0 22. E. KY 3 23. Akron 0 24. Weber St. 0 25. Prairie View 0 26. Missouri State 0 27. Cleveland St. 0 28. Furman 0 29. St. Mary's 0 30. Wofford 3 31. Kent St. 2 32. Navy 1 33. Vermont 2 34. Ohio 0 35. Grand Canyon 0 36. Loyola Marymount 1 37. Norfolk St. 0 38. Pepperdine 1 39. UC Irvine 0 40. Stephen F. Austin 1 41. UC Riverside 1 42. Bryant 1 43. Utah Valley 0 44. Bowling Green 1 45. Nicholls St. 1 46. Louisiana 0 47. Siena 2 48. Jackson St. 0 49. N. Alabama 1 50. UMBC 2 51. Mercer 1 52. Pacific 0 Valpo: 6
Gonzaga?
LOL!
At any rate, it is expected that up to 1500 players will enter the portal this offseason and it is near 400 at the moment. I realize you're a "you see, you see" type of poster however give it time. I'm not saying that Lottich is any good merely just that the transfer issue is one across all of college basketball...particularly mid majors....and ignoring that fact is ignoring the problem. As I said, Valpo has to get better at dealing with it. Of course, because of the "you see, you see" that needs to be included you completely skipped that part.
Quote from: valpopal on March 12, 2021, 12:28:33 PM
The Crusader has now entered the Transfer Portal. ::)
The Valparaiso Transfers?
Transfers make first Big Dance in 7 years
Quote from: wh on March 13, 2021, 02:00:40 PMWhat if Eron had decided instead to take his diploma and move forward on his life's journey? Would that have been Matt Lottich's fault? Just asking for a friend.
Eron's brother, Eric, just got hurt and will be out 4-6 weeks from the Houston Rockets. I don't know who influences Eron in making decisions but there will probably be some very influential phone calls from a guy who dumped Illinois easily and played 1 year at Indiana.
Quote from: bbtds on March 13, 2021, 03:42:48 PM
Quote from: valpopal on March 12, 2021, 12:28:33 PM
The Crusader has now entered the Transfer Portal. ::)
The Valparaiso Transfers?
Transfers make first Big Dance in 7 years
So as a requirement for our scholarships we should require a written pledge that every player enter the portal every year. :thumbsup: Crusaders out---Mercenaries in ::)
Quote from: wh on March 13, 2021, 02:00:40 PM
Quote from: valpotx on March 13, 2021, 01:08:59 PM
Good to see that Gordon is going to use the extra year to pursue/finish a graduate degree, and stay at Valpo. Seems like a kid that has a good head on his shoulders, and has his moments of good play. I think that he had an off-year shooting the 3, as he seems to be capable of being closer to 35-40%. We needed a veteran leader, and this gives us such a guarantee.
What if Eron had decided instead to take his diploma and move forward on his life's journey? Would that have been Matt Lottich's fault? Just asking for a friend.
Not sure why you are addressing this to me, as I explicitly said in an earlier post, that these transfers aren't on ML, but rather how the youngest generation views stability, and even tying it to what happens in the workplace. Answering your question, no, I would not have blamed Lottich if Gordon decided to see if he would use the free year to level up, or just graduated and move into the business world.
Also, anyone remember what Wichita State went through last offseason? How did they end up doing this season? ;)
Cleveland St in the mid-major top 25?
I doubt we would finish top 5 in the HL.
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 13, 2021, 09:52:21 PMCleveland St in the mid-major top 25? I doubt we would finish top 5 in the HL.
That's a bit of an exaggeration isn't it? Cleveland State did well in conference but they were horrid in the non-conference again. They also played a whopping 21(!) Q4 games to Valpo's 7. In terms of the NET Valpo's NET would have been 5th in the HL trailing Wright State Cleveland State NKU and UDM. And playing against this conference schedule as opposed to the MVC seems to suggest that Valpo would have done a little better if they were in the HL than they did in the MVC. I mean don't get me wrong we have absolutely stunk up the joint since joining the MVC but to say we wouldn't even be top 5 in the HL just seems off base to me.
Also ranking systems are pretty useless to be honest because all you have to do to be on them is win and it doesn't matter who you play. Belmont almost had a top 25 ranking and now won't sniff an at large bid after a few losses because all they did was beat up on a bunch of Q4 schools. Belmont played 29 games A whopping 28 of them were Q3 and Q4. The majority of them 18-10 were in Q4 And NONE were in Q1. And yet they were on the doorstep of the top 25 and are ranked 10 in this mid major poll despite being nowhere near the bubble. The mid major top 25 is even more useless because it excludes a bunch of other teams.
Quote from: valpotx on March 13, 2021, 07:04:34 PM
Quote from: wh on March 13, 2021, 02:00:40 PM
Quote from: valpotx on March 13, 2021, 01:08:59 PM
Good to see that Gordon is going to use the extra year to pursue/finish a graduate degree, and stay at Valpo. Seems like a kid that has a good head on his shoulders, and has his moments of good play. I think that he had an off-year shooting the 3, as he seems to be capable of being closer to 35-40%. We needed a veteran leader, and this gives us such a guarantee.
What if Eron had decided instead to take his diploma and move forward on his life's journey? Would that have been Matt Lottich's fault? Just asking for a friend.
Not sure why you are addressing this to me, as I explicitly said in an earlier post, that these transfers aren't on ML, but rather how the youngest generation views stability, and even tying it to what happens in the workplace. Answering your question, no, I would not have blamed Lottich if Gordon decided to see if he would use the free year to level up, or just graduated and move into the business world.
Also, anyone remember what Wichita State went through last offseason? How did they end up doing this season? ;)
I wasn't addressing it to you. I was on the lecture circuit at the time I spotted your post, so I piggybacked on it to add support to a point I was making in a different post. I completely agree with everything you said in your post.
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 13, 2021, 12:01:22 PM
From "Mens Mid Major Top 25" collegeinsider.com Ranking and the number of players in the transfer portal:
1. Gonzaga 0
2. Loyola Chi 0
3. Winthrop 0
4. BYU 0
5. Drake 0
6. Liberty 0
7. Morehead State 0
8. Southern Utah 1
9. Toledo 1
10. Belmont 0
11. Abilene Christian 0
12. GA State 0
13. UCSB 0
14. Sam Houston 0
15. UNCG 1
16. E. Washington 0
17. Wright State 0
18. S. Dakota St. 1
19. Buffalo 1
20. Colgate 2
21. Texas St. 0
22. E. KY 3
23. Akron 0
24. Weber St. 0
25. Prairie View 0
26. Missouri State 0
27. Cleveland St. 0
28. Furman 0
29. St. Mary's 0
30. Wofford 3
31. Kent St. 2
32. Navy 1
33. Vermont 2
34. Ohio 0
35. Grand Canyon 0
36. Loyola Marymount 1
37. Norfolk St. 0
38. Pepperdine 1
39. UC Irvine 0
40. Stephen F. Austin 1
41. UC Riverside 1
42. Bryant 1
43. Utah Valley 0
44. Bowling Green 1
45. Nicholls St. 1
46. Louisiana 0
47. Siena 2
48. Jackson St. 0
49. N. Alabama 1
50. UMBC 2
51. Mercer 1
52. Pacific 0
Valpo: 6
You're saying teams that are still playing sports don't have players leaving before sport ends? Who would have thought?
Quote from: a3uge on March 13, 2021, 10:27:15 PMQuote from: Just Sayin on March 13, 2021, 12:01:22 PMFrom "Mens Mid Major Top 25" collegeinsider.com Ranking and the number of players in the transfer portal: 1. Gonzaga 0 2. Loyola Chi 0 3. Winthrop 0 4. BYU 0 5. Drake 0 6. Liberty 0 7. Morehead State 0 8. Southern Utah 1 9. Toledo 1 10. Belmont 0 11. Abilene Christian 0 12. GA State 0 13. UCSB 0 14. Sam Houston 0 15. UNCG 1 16. E. Washington 0 17. Wright State 0 18. S. Dakota St. 1 19. Buffalo 1 20. Colgate 2 21. Texas St. 0 22. E. KY 3 23. Akron 0 24. Weber St. 0 25. Prairie View 0 26. Missouri State 0 27. Cleveland St. 0 28. Furman 0 29. St. Mary's 0 30. Wofford 3 31. Kent St. 2 32. Navy 1 33. Vermont 2 34. Ohio 0 35. Grand Canyon 0 36. Loyola Marymount 1 37. Norfolk St. 0 38. Pepperdine 1 39. UC Irvine 0 40. Stephen F. Austin 1 41. UC Riverside 1 42. Bryant 1 43. Utah Valley 0 44. Bowling Green 1 45. Nicholls St. 1 46. Louisiana 0 47. Siena 2 48. Jackson St. 0 49. N. Alabama 1 50. UMBC 2 51. Mercer 1 52. Pacific 0 Valpo: 6
You're saying teams that are still playing sports don't have players leaving before sport ends? Who would have thought?
Let me know when most (any?) of these schools have six transfers. And have about that many in multiple years in a short span. Like it or not player retention at Valpo is a huge problem. Or recruiting is a problem. Or coaching is a problem. Or commitment is a problem. Either way something is wrong in the program right now and needs to be addressed if we want to remain relevant. The window feels like it's closing fast. We need to right the ship soon or all the Drews did to build this program will be for naught.
Look, having six transfers this year is not what it seems. The COVID year makes this look much worse than it is. Robinson and Malik should have been done this year anyway. A walk on transfers. Nice kid. Wish him well. So what? Left with three. Siggy never gonna play. Needs to go low D1 or D2. Sackey is a one trick pony. Fast. That's it. Should be low D1, maybe D2. Clay is only real loss, and we have similar player in Young coming in. Ok we trade a junior for a freshman, but maybe this freshman can shoot better than 20% from 3. Given the huge number of players in the transfer portal this year, just maybe we can fill some holes with transfers. A point with some experience. A big or two who can maybe set picks, rebound (I am sick of getting killed on the boards every game), and defend the post. Frankly, I think we are clearing out a lot of dead wood with these transfers and maybe we can come out ahead if we can attract some transfers who fit specific needs. Now if all we can get is a bunch of 6' to 6'3" wings who can't hit from three, then I will be really disappointed. But there is opportunity here as well.
If those guys transferring out are no lose (and I agree) then Lottich should never have recruited them.
Only recruit guys that you want in your program NOT to leave.
Don't recruit guys that should be low D1 or D2.
Either it's a recruiting problem or a transferring out problem.
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 14, 2021, 08:19:58 AM
If those guys transferring out are no lose (and I agree) then Lottich should never have recruited them.
Only recruit guys that you want in your program NOT to leave.
Don't recruit guys that should be low D1 or D2.
Either it's a recruiting problem or a transferring out problem.
The problem is, you just don't know how talent at the high school level equates to the D1 level. Think back to a guy like Dwane Toatley. Came to Valpo as a walk-on and ended up as a starter. Then there's John Kiser, same thing. On the other side is...a bunch of guys like Tommy Kurth, Jay Harris, Logan Jones, Chris Halversen, Joe Burton, Parker Hazen...the list is endless.
Quote from: vu72 on March 14, 2021, 08:33:15 AMQuote from: oklahomamick on March 14, 2021, 08:19:58 AMIf those guys transferring out are no lose (and I agree) then Lottich should never have recruited them. Only recruit guys that you want in your program NOT to leave. Don't recruit guys that should be low D1 or D2. Either it's a recruiting problem or a transferring out problem.
The problem is, you just don't know how talent at the high school level equates to the D1 level. Think back to a guy like Dwane Toatley. Came to Valpo as a walk-on and ended up as a starter. Then there's John Kiser, same thing. On the other side is...a bunch of guys like Tommy Kurth, Jay Harris, Logan Jones, Chris Halversen, Joe Burton, Parker Hazen...the list is endless.
Exactly. The NFL and NBA can't draft sure fire bets, what makes you think we can? Especially when as one other poster said, we have made a living finding those diamonds in the rough... sometimes they are in the rough for a reason. And on the flip side, a kid that was under recruited, dreams of playing for a big time school but couldn't get that opportunity out of high school for whatever reason. After proving himself for a few years showing he does belong or at the very least, showing enough to warrant a look. Can't blame a kid for chasing his dream.
So here's some total speculation on my part--something is going on in Green Bay. If I counted correctly, there are now 9 players in the transfer portal. What if, as a result, Cade Meyer changes his mind about going to Green Bay and decides instead to join his friend Cam Palesse at Valpo? That would be nice. ::)
If we assume that Zion should go ??? then we have 2 available scholarships. Is that correct? With the extra large pool of portal talent now available the upside opportunity for net player quality gains might be greater than many of you think.
Quote from: nkvu on March 14, 2021, 12:29:14 AMFrankly, I think we are clearing out a lot of dead wood with these transfers and maybe we can come out ahead if we can attract some transfers who fit specific needs.
Because of the expanded player pool many transfers who normally could be moving up will be considering sideways shuffles instead. Most at the Donovan, Milleek and Nick level can only move UP by scaling their playing time expectations DOWN. In chaos there is opportunity. I hope Matt has his shopping list ready.
Zion staying or leaving won't affect our scholarship. At this point we have 3 scholarships to give if all of Clay, Daniel, and Siggy stay in the portal.
The other question coaches will be balancing is: Do you take grad transfers who have one year left so you're not adding even more people to the bump up against the scholarship cap, do you hold scholarships over or do you try to take scholarships away.
One advantage Valpo has is we are freshman and sophomore heavy which means we have 2-3 years before we know if these guys are going to stay their extra year. so that gives us 2 years to balance freshman recruits with transfers that won't be hanging around for 3 years themselves.
I agree with every poster who suggested that Clay is the only real loss here. Everyone else is replaceable.
Sackey actually had flashes of brilliance. His sophomore year MVC tournament run he was nothing short of spectacular at times. But he simply can't shoot and every other team adjusted and basically left him as a liability on the court.
Bottom line: Everyone who transferred, including Clay, can't shoot. None of them. Not a single transfer was a consistent outside threat.
My Opinion: I think Lottich has a game plan that involves live and die by the 3. He recruited guys who don't fit the mold because he is young an inexperienced. Hell, even JFL couldn't hit 3's. He seems to be recruiting guys that are a better fit for his game plan this time around. Hopefully it works, because if we don't get things turned around soon we could be in trouble. Our name recognition will only last for so long before any success we had is too far in the rearview mirror to help promote future success.
I am cautiously optimistic. Even though our overall record wasn't great we have SLOWLY been moving up the MVC standings every year. If we can finish 5th next year that will be 1 more step up the ladder. Gonna be tricky next year since other teams had a lot more senior talent than we did. So if guys return for their "free" year other teams will be helped out more than we were. I love Gordon's leadership and Morgan's tenacity but man, Morgan really is not an MVC level player and Gordon is a great 6th man role player glue guy at the MVC level.
still hard to believe people have a problem with the transfers. i think it's great they are leaving to find a better fit.
in professional employment, if you have an employee that can't do their job or is toxic, you get rid of them. ML realizing the players can't play at this level and having discussions about maybe finding a better opportunity is mutually beneficial. Having them stick around for another year or two isn't going to help Valpo win games, which is what we all want. With covid, no tournament $, and no/limited attendance this season, i don't see many universities terminating their coaches which would allow the player to reopen their recruitment, so hitting the transfer portal is imperative this offseason.
Success breeds success. Who wants to leave when your team is ranked/national attention/winning championships/going dancing. If we start consistently winning the players will stick around.
Quote from: wh on March 09, 2021, 11:19:08 AMUnless someone transfers out, every player in their final year of eligilibility that returns under the COVID exception adds to our 13. That said, increasing scholarships above 13 only applies to this year. For example, Daniel will be a senior next year. If he decides to return for a 5th season under the COVID exception, he will have to fill 1 of our 13 total scholarships.
So Eron could be a 14'th scholarship if we have the money to do so. Do we? With fixed playing time is it even a good idea? Should Zion even be considered? I mean 15 scholarships :o. Thats crazy! And Mileek and Nick are shopping for playing time while competing for fixed 13 scholarships positions elsewhere? Good luck!
Quote from: SanityLost17 on March 14, 2021, 10:45:22 AMI agree with every poster who suggested that Clay is the only real loss here. Everyone else is replaceable. Sackey actually had flashes of brilliance. His sophomore year MVC tournament run he was nothing short of spectacular at times. But he simply can't shoot and every other team adjusted and basically left him as a liability on the court. Bottom line: Everyone who transferred, including Clay, can't shoot. None of them. Not a single transfer was a consistent outside threat. My Opinion: I think Lottich has a game plan that involves live and die by the 3. He recruited guys who don't fit the mold because he is young an inexperienced. Hell, even JFL couldn't hit 3's. He seems to be recruiting guys that are a better fit for his game plan this time around. Hopefully it works, because if we don't get things turned around soon we could be in trouble. Our name recognition will only last for so long before any success we had is too far in the rearview mirror to help promote future success. I am cautiously optimistic. Even though our overall record wasn't great we have SLOWLY been moving up the MVC standings every year. If we can finish 5th next year that will be 1 more step up the ladder. Gonna be tricky next year since other teams had a lot more senior talent than we did. So if guys return for their "free" year other teams will be helped out more than we were. I love Gordon's leadership and Morgan's tenacity but man, Morgan really is not an MVC level player and Gordon is a great 6th man role player glue guy at the MVC level.
I really don't love the idea of living and dying by the 3 a low percentage shot even with good shooters and getting crushed on the glass most every night. It just doesn't feel like a winning strategy that has any real consistency but maybe I'm wrong. I mean Golden State made it work in the NBA and became more or less a dynasty. Maybe Valpo can make it work at the NCAA level.
Our women had some good success with the 'live or die' by the 3. Injuries and a short bench killed their season, but they were on pace to do something special.
I understand coaches aren't going to hit on on every recruit.
But give me a staff that has a better percentage on hitting on recruits.
Last two point guards have been bad. And some of the reason we have been bad
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 14, 2021, 04:12:24 PM
I understand coaches aren't going to hit on on every recruit.
But give me a staff that has a better percentage on hitting on recruits.
Last two point guards have been bad. And some of the reason we have been bad
I sort of agree they haven't been able to find a great PG but I am very optimistic about Darius DeAveiro (Incoming Freshman PG) and Cam Palesse (more of a combo guard but can play PG). One caveat to this is that the offense was meant to run through Javon Freeman Liberty who acted as the primary ball handler while he was at Valpo and it was fairly successful. They also brought in Lavender as grad transfer and he was solid. The Coaches have done well at finding shooting guards.
But I agree that they haven't found the next Keith Carter of this program. Maybe they did in the up coming class. I understand the appeal with Sackey with the speed and athleticism but it didn't translate at the next level. The speed didn't make up for the jump shot and the difficulty of driving to the paint and getting blocked or having to difficultly put up a lay up. But I will give Sackey some credit, he became a much better distributor the last few years. We haven't had a pure PG traditional since Keith Carter and Lexus Williams.
I'm really hoping the Coaching Staff can bring in a grad transfer PG with experience. We can't rely of the freshman PGs, because that is a lot to ask out of a couple young kids. They need to be eased into bigger roles ideally.
If your ok with someone in your program Leaving then you probably shouldn't have had them in your program to begin with
Hindsight is always 20/20. Is there any company or program in the world, that hits on every new recruit? Do you know how many people leave Amazon after less than 2 years, or just after 2 years? For as cool as they sound, they have terrible turnover in their IT ranks.
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 14, 2021, 06:46:37 PM
If your ok with someone in your program
Leaving then your probably shouldn't have had them in your program to begin with
Did you ever go out with a girl. And she was really cute, and cool and fun at first. And you thought maybe it could be something special. And then after a few dates she annoyed the hell out of you. The way she talked during movies, or the way she was always late, or how she nagged you about every little thing. Well that's how many of us feel about the people that are leaving. Meanwhile you are that one friend that's saying after the fact, "Dude, you never should have went out with her"...
Interesting comments that Sackey gave to Oren about leaving Valpo. Seems like both parties realized that it was time to move on.
I get not every recruit is going to work out but Lottich has been been wrong more often than not on recruits lately. We have to have a better hit ratio on recruits. At the end of the day, he is the leader of this program and has to take responsibility for the product on the court and the results. We haven't had a solid point guard in what seems like years. We all knew Sackey wasn't the answer long ago.
I agree with the others that Clay is the real loss here but even then he had a rough year. When we can lose so many players and only one might have had a real impact, then that's a problem and raises the question why Lottich had them here to begin with.
Quote from: mj on March 14, 2021, 07:38:22 PM
Interesting comments that Sackey gave to Oren about leaving Valpo. Seems like both parties realized that it was time to move on.
I hope that Sackey realizes his limitations, and transfers to a little bit lower level. If he tries for a level up, he isn't going to play. He should do as Micah Bradford did, and transfer to a low mid-major program, and find his spot.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 14, 2021, 02:09:51 PMQuote from: SanityLost17 on March 14, 2021, 10:45:22 AMI agree with every poster who suggested that Clay is the only real loss here. Everyone else is replaceable. Sackey actually had flashes of brilliance. His sophomore year MVC tournament run he was nothing short of spectacular at times. But he simply can't shoot and every other team adjusted and basically left him as a liability on the court. Bottom line: Everyone who transferred, including Clay, can't shoot. None of them. Not a single transfer was a consistent outside threat. My Opinion: I think Lottich has a game plan that involves live and die by the 3. He recruited guys who don't fit the mold because he is young an inexperienced. Hell, even JFL couldn't hit 3's. He seems to be recruiting guys that are a better fit for his game plan this time around. Hopefully it works, because if we don't get things turned around soon we could be in trouble. Our name recognition will only last for so long before any success we had is too far in the rearview mirror to help promote future success. I am cautiously optimistic. Even though our overall record wasn't great we have SLOWLY been moving up the MVC standings every year. If we can finish 5th next year that will be 1 more step up the ladder. Gonna be tricky next year since other teams had a lot more senior talent than we did. So if guys return for their "free" year other teams will be helped out more than we were. I love Gordon's leadership and Morgan's tenacity but man, Morgan really is not an MVC level player and Gordon is a great 6th man role player glue guy at the MVC level.
I really don't love the idea of living and dying by the 3 a low percentage shot even with good shooters and getting crushed on the glass most every night. It just doesn't feel like a winning strategy that has any real consistency but maybe I'm wrong. I mean Golden State made it work in the NBA and became more or less a dynasty. Maybe Valpo can make it work at the NCAA level.
The problem with living or dying, as it is put, by the 3 for Valpo has been the lack of players who were quality three point shooters. In fact, Valpo just hasn't had players who have demonstrated much of an offensive game overall since Peters left. JFL to some degree but even he forced a lot at times. Offense always looks terrible when shots aren't falling plus it doesn't help the defense.
Quote from: valpolaw on March 14, 2021, 07:47:39 PMI get not every recruit is going to work out but Lottich has been been wrong more often than not on recruits lately. We have to have a better hit ratio on recruits. At the end of the day, he is the leader of this program and has to take responsibility for the product on the court and the results. We haven't had a solid point guard in what seems like years. We all knew Sackey wasn't the answer long ago. I agree with the others that Clay is the real loss here but even then he had a rough year. When we can lose so many players and only one might have had a real impact, then that's a problem and raises the question why Lottich had them here to begin with.
Pretty much it.
I understand you aren't going to hit on every recruit. But Lottich needs a better hit/miss ratio on recruiting. Hasn't recruited a point guard yet....
Quote from: vuny98 on March 14, 2021, 07:25:49 PMDid you ever go out with a girl. And she was really cute, and cool and fun at first. And you thought maybe it could be something special. And then after a few dates she annoyed the hell out of you.
I don't think any of our dates with Donovan exposed significant incompatibilities. :) Maybe it was more of a future in-law problem? ;) If her dad says hit the road then grab your hat and coat. I say that from first hand experience and maybe this will be an equal blessing. ;)
I understand that transferring is part of the college game these days, but Valpo's departures or potential ones seem to be excessive over the past few years. What makes a kid "fall in love" with Valpo as a program and an academic institution when committing to the squad, then head for the hills a short time later?
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 14, 2021, 08:08:05 PM
I understand you aren't going to hit on every recruit. But Lottich needs a better hit/miss ratio on recruiting. Hasn't recruited a point guard yet....
[/b]
Really? Or maybe you meant "a successful point guard". We've got two guys coming in next year who either play the point or can play the point. Can't wait to see BIG guys handling the ball!
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 14, 2021, 08:08:05 PMLike (1 people liked this)
I actually think his recruits have done quite well. Not all have worked out for us or players I would necessarily want on the team again, but doesn't mean they weren't good players or bad recruits.
Smitts, Sorolla - Both talented players that moved up. Smitts was a great get, wouldn't want him on the team again, but can't say he was a bad recruit at the time.
Kiser - Not most talented but great team guyGolder/Evelyn - Both good players and good transfers in, just didnt work outJoe Burton - Great player, but academic issues. That season and maybe the next would have been different had he stayed on track and not gotten kicked off the team.
JFL - obviously a great getFezakas - one of the best 3 pt shooters in our history. If he stayed healthy could have been real special.Robinson/Gordon - Both good transfers in as role players
Clay - Very good playerKrikke - Very good, could be great by Senior year
This years freshman class - all seem to have great upsides, played well as freshmen.
There have been some duds as well, some project players that didn't pan out and some that played more minutes then there talent suggested. But if you look at the list, it's not bad at all. A lot of injuries, some character/team chemistry issues in there as well. But you can't 100% control those things. If Fazakes wasn't hurt half the year last year, we could have been a top 4 team in the MVC. I'd say the same thing if JFL didn't leave this year.
I happened to channel surf to the Illinois State Championship game from JFL's senior year that was being rebroadcast. There was an interview with JFL's uncle. He said that Valpo was a great fit for JFL because he could play as a freshman -- nothing about the values of the university or coaching staff. I know I heard that same interview years ago, but this time, with the knowledge of what happened, it seemed clear that Valpo was never intended to be a four year choice for JFL.
I think it's fair to say that retention has been a bit of an issue in the Lottich era and that doesn't necessarily mean he's a bad coach. It mean's he what he is. A really young head coach. Promoting a 3rd assistant to head coach is just asking for growing pains and I actually do think lots of the issues we have seen can be attributed to that.
It's one thing to be good at recruiting but you have to learn who to target and when.
It's one thing to have a good idea for a motion offense, it's another to learn how to help the players see it.
It's one thing to be able to sell Valpo as home, it's another to figure out how to make it feel both like a home and an intense competitive program.
A lot of these things are intangibles that some people do innately have and others absolutely have to learn. I think at some point we need the players to move from liking Valpo and each other to fighting for Valpo and each other. We need not just individually competitive drives but have the team be equally competitive together. Sometimes they just seemed lazy, like they were out playing with each other for fun. That's honestly the attitude that worries me the most watching the team. Cause eventually they get older and realize they want more out of their basketball career more than liking their school and their teammates.
I'm not on the Fire Lottich team but I think it's fair to say there's room for improvement and some of that might just take time as he continues to learn and grow as a coach. We may not want to wait but I don't see a ton of stuff with Lottich that i'm willing to say is set in stone just yet just based on how young he is in head coaching experience. Plus, as someone said on here earlier, Bryce was not known to be a great delegator so I don't know how much tutelage those under him got if you weren't his right hand man.
I do think that both this freshman class and his incoming class seem more cohesiveness and point towards a clearer team identity and I just hope that he figures out the team chemistry stuff soon as well cause that's probably going to be the only thing to prevent players feeling like they've outgrown the program before their four years are up
https://twitter.com/kreyme8/status/1371514784324141057?s=21
https://twitter.com/nwioren/status/1371515789862440962?s=21
https://twitter.com/nwioren/status/1371561579179872267?s=21
So are we supposed to be reading something between the lines with all this or........
Awaiting your return, Javon. And, bring Charlie Moore with you!
Javon with 2 more years eligibility, Charlie with 1. Each averaged 14.4 PPG. That should equate to 35-40 points on a typical MVC night.
Quote from: crusader05 on March 15, 2021, 03:46:50 PMSo are we supposed to be reading something between the lines with all this or........
It's not like I said Valpo is getting good news.
That would be amazing. But what are the chances of it materializing? But if it did, Javon could rule the MVC. Big investments to the ARC would have to start now.
Quote from: wh on March 15, 2021, 03:51:53 PM
Awaiting your return, Javon. And, bring Charlie Moore with you!
Javon with 2 more years eligibility, Charlie with 1. Each averaged 14.4 PPG. That should equate to 35-40 points on a typical MVC night.
I love your thinking, but I think there would be two major "firsts" associated with this.
1. Has a player ever transferred back to a school that he left?
2. Has a player ever played for four schools?
If this happens we'd be an at large contender no matter who else comes back in the Valley and I would want us to schedule like it!
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 15, 2021, 05:20:33 PM
If this happens we'd be an at large contender no matter who else comes back in the Valley and I would want us to schedule like it!
If Javon came back and Donovan withdrew his name from the portal we'd be MVC favorites to win the Conference and maybe an at-large bid.
Maybe if Javon returned Clay would change his mind but you'd think those guys all still talk right? If there was a chance he was returning you'd think Clay would know that already right or Sackey?
Maybe i'm wrong but I'd think the answer is he's either not coming back and all our conversations can continue on the way they've been going or he is coming back but that's not going to solve whatever reason Clay et al have for leaving but will still maybe help the conversations on this board from being too dire. Would also be interesting if he did come back to have someone on the team who tried for the greener grass and can say, nah it's not worth it. But again this would all be on if he did come back which seems pretty unprecedented
I think Mileek just wants to go somewhere that he can play the 4 and not the 5 honestly.
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 15, 2021, 04:38:36 PM2. Has a player ever played for four schools?
Brandon Woods Southern Illinois, Some JC, Valpo, Michigan St
Logan Jones may have hit 5 :o but I'm not interested enough to research it. ;)
I'd be shocked if JFL came back. He's had some success, he could go to another P5 if he wanted. (Plus we've been told ML is a d****e!)
But, if he did come back, that is fun to think about the possibilities. Esp with JO just standing in the corner making it rain.
Quote from: justducky on March 15, 2021, 06:50:17 PM
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 15, 2021, 04:38:36 PM2. Has a player ever played for four schools?
Brandon Woods Southern Illinois, Some JC, Valpo, Michigan St
Logan Jones may have hit 5 :o but I'm not interested enough to research it. ;)
I meant to say four D1 schools.
It's sad that we think he would come back. We've hit rock bottom.
How many times can you be dumped and think you still have a chance.
I'm with chairback here. There is a zero point zero chance he is coming back but I would love to be proven wrong on that
Probably not going to happen but the speculation is fun
It's all in lighthearted fun.
Exactly. Why in the world would JFL come back? lol Let's speculate on some folks that legitimately want to play at Valpo. I wouldn't want him on our team, which seems to be moving more towards jump shots, rather than creating open space for drives.
Speaking of the JFL or Clay's of the world, you are taking a risk when taking on someone that wants to play right away, and has legitimate talent to immediately compete as a FR. It worked out in AP's case, but both JFL and Clay seemed to want to use the first 2 years as a JuCo equivalent, to get additional eyes their way for a move up. Similar to how the top P5 programs have the 1-and-done, it seems that solid mid-majors have the 2-and-done.
Valpo has not hit rock bottom. Are we where we want to be? Absolutely not but guys there are pieces on this Team that are very good. It hurts with the transfers the last few years but it's not a nail in the coffin. We were a middle of the road young roster that could hardly practice this year due to covid. We have a very strong recruiting class coming and lost transfers (other than Clay) that have the chance to upgrade their open positions. Are things perfect? No they are not. There are things to be critical of. Are we at rock bottom? Absolutely not.
It's ok to not be happy but try to see the big picture. There is a chance that 1/4th+ of the eligible D1 players this offseason will be leaving their current schools which is absolutely nuts to think about. Kids quit much easier these days or aren't willing to stick it out and not getting playing time like they use to. Don't give me the Homer and Bryce didn't have this many transfers crap. It is a totally different sport and landscape compared to 5-10 years ago. Times have changed. Yes you can point to outliers schools holding onto more players the last few years but that what they are.
OUTLIERS.
I've been hot and cold about The Matt Lottich tenure but I can't gripe about too much right now. He needs to stop those insane scoring draughts and recruit better shooters but I think the way the roster is trending, I think he knows and his young players are much more capable shooters. He's been learning on the fly and definitely has made mistakes in recruiting (as does everyone) but I feel better about our recruiting than I ever have under his tenure. Time will tell.
We won 8 games last year, I guess winning less than that would be rock bottom? I don't count PNW and Judson. We have to be in the 1% club with amount of transfers the last 3-4 years. Sure transfers are the norm now but not a complete overhaul twice.
We are saying the exact same things we said after the first exodus. Let's replace them, we can upgrade, etc. We blame the players and not the coaches.
I bet the majority of the reasons for the transfers is our offensive system blows. It's bad and the players have shown they cannot adapt to it. It's a clueless offensive and then we panic and force shots to beat the shot clock. Every game...
The first half of the MVC conf game against MS was a complete joke.
Quote from: Chairback on March 16, 2021, 02:15:40 PM
We won 8 games last year, I guess winning less than that would be rock bottom? I don't count PNW and Judson. We have to be in the 1% club with amount of transfers the last 3-4 years. Sure transfers are the norm now but not a complete overhaul twice.
We are saying the exact same things we said after the first exodus. Let's replace them, we can upgrade, etc. We blame the players and not the coaches.
I bet the majority of the reasons for the transfers is our offensive system blows. It's bad and the players have shown they cannot adapt to it. It's a clueless offensive and then we panic and force shots to beat the shot clock. Every game...
The first half of the MVC conf game against MS was a complete joke.
We beat the number 24 ranked team in the nation once and nearly twice. We got screwed by the refs in the Loyola game who was ranked #21 at the time on the road. We were winning most of the Purdue game on the road who is now a ranked Top 25 team.
Valpo hasn't been consistent, which he is an issue
You are choosing to look at the negatives and none of the positives.
Also, this is not a complete overhaul. We essentially lost 2 regular players...I don't understand why some people are insistent on making this a doomsday scenario when we lost 1 of our 5 main pieces (Clay, Krikke, JO, Edwards, Barrett)
I agree. We really only had one key transfer, and that's a kid who is being told that some P5 schools are interested - I think it would be to come off the bench but who knows. He probably wants to the perks of a P5 conf. Valpo can't compete. The others saw playing time decreasing. Not sure Siggy would play that much given what is coming in unless he was shooting lights out. And grad transfers don't count. nor should a walk-on. If you were at a small school, wouldn't you use your second chance to try someone new? Eron and Zion have already seen the other side so they are good to stay. The future IS bright. You have to be optimistic because the alternative will just get you down.
Zion is staying another year?
Quote from: VU2014 on March 16, 2021, 02:39:00 PMI bet the majority of the reasons for the transfers is our offensive system blows. It's bad and the players have shown they cannot adapt to it. It's a clueless offensive and then we panic and force shots to beat the shot clock. Every game...
Our current offensive system allows, in my opinion, an extreme amount of latitude to the player, hence the number of 3's taken and shots taken early in the shot clock. Most young players like that kind of wide open offense were it appears that they make the decisions and too often play one on one basketball. Clay played the most minutes of any player in the MVC and had the most scoring opportunities of any player on our team. I don't think he is transferring because he wants fewer opportunities to display his talents. This is all about the "handlers" thinking the player is at the wrong level and that they would do better on another team in a different conference. How did that work out for JFL, Smits, Sorolla etc.
JFL would have easily contended with Krutwig for POY in the MVC, played in 9 more games and perhaps even had a chance to go dancing, if not this year then next. Yes he played in the Big East against really good competition but that is all he can really say that he did. Next year he will have an uncertain situation with a new coach and most likely a new offense, doubtful they contend for a spot in the bracket. He would have been better off staying put, his "handlers" blew it.
https://twitter.com/travisbranham_/status/1371876608068497409?s=21
Quote from: valpotx on March 16, 2021, 04:05:25 PM
Zion is staying another year?
I've not seen anything saying that. Typically PO has that scoop and he hasn't tweeted anything yet.
https://twitter.com/jeffborzello/status/1371930292299128834?s=20
Good move by Laravia, and he can play at that level. Great school, too.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 16, 2021, 04:20:44 PM
https://twitter.com/travisbranham_/status/1371876608068497409?s=21
This would be a great get for us. Experienced point guard that can score, shoot the three (36%) and rebound. All around player at the most important position that would instantly make us much better. Don't think the odds are in our favor, though.
Quote from: FWalum on March 16, 2021, 04:14:58 PMClay played the most minutes of any player in the MVC and had the most scoring opportunities of any player on our team. I don't think he is transferring because he wants fewer opportunities to display his talents. This is all about the "handlers" thinking the player is at the wrong level and that they would do better on another team in a different conference. How did that work out for JFL, Smits, Sorolla etc.
Good "handlers' are far more uncommon than "mis handlers". We have had a pretty long list in the second category.
Quote from: vu72 on March 16, 2021, 04:22:07 PM
Quote from: valpotx on March 16, 2021, 04:05:25 PM
Zion is staying another year?
I've not seen anything saying that. Typically PO has that scoop and he hasn't tweeted anything yet.
I see little value for him and perhaps less for the team so my best guess remains "no".
I heard somewhere Zion is staying.
Jake LaRavia from Indiana State just committed to Wake Forest. That was a good pick up for WF
I think a grad transfer point guard with coaching ambition would be of great benefit to help the freshman point guards develop. I suppose Gordon and Morgan could serve that role, but I don't think either are natural point guards. Absent a transfer in I guess either Gordon or Morgan or both will get most of the minutes at the point in the beginning of the season. If so, then the team's success may depend on how quickly one of the freshmen can play their way into getting large minutes at the point.
If Zion has any professional ambitions in basketball, he would be making a good decision in using the extra year, while furthering his education as a backup. If Oumar Sylla can eventually play professional basketball, and the Zion of the last month shows up for a full year, he could also do so. Guys that can confidently possess the ball and distribute have a place overseas, even if they aren't great shooters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgTUeOqdYCE
Interesting point
Maybe that's part of the situation at hand. Not necessarily a matter of "falling in love" if you don't have a lot of suitors perhaps. How many of our players, like many lower to average mid-major programs, recruit players who didn't have many other D-1 offers?
Many factors at play even for highly sought after recruits but if you only have one or two or at most a handful of offers and haven't gotten much attention from the "experts" who rank prospects and such, it may be a matter of settling, being thankful for the opportunity itself, and/or figuring it's a matter of getting one's foot in the door before (at best) transferring to a bigger program with more exposure thereafter.
Not necessarily a 4 year commitment at this point. Could be related to academic degrees offered and such too obviously.
Wasn't Faulkner an original NKU commit who left when Brannen left or am I mistaken? Did he have a brother who played for NKU?
Yes Faulkner was an original NKU recruit. He was a freshman the last year VU was in Horizon League and probably played against VU.
Quote from: RS on March 16, 2021, 09:51:49 PMYes Faulkner was an original NKU recruit. He was a freshman the last year VU was in Horizon League and probably played against VU.
Weird that NKU is after him now after he left them. Maybe you can go back to where you transferred from. (Not getting my hopes up for anyone in particular or anything :) )
Saw this on transfer portal today ... Xavier Casteneda a Junior transferring from South Florida. VU offered him a scholarship 3 years ago. Played along with Javon Freeman at Whitney Young. A 6'1 Point guard that shot over 35% from 3 point line and averaged 8.3 pts.
Quote from: RS on March 17, 2021, 01:07:05 PM
Saw this on transfer portal today ... Xavier Casteneda a Junior transferring from South Florida. VU offered him a scholarship 3 years ago. Played along with Javon Freeman at Whitney Young. A 6'1 Point guard that shot over 35% from 3 point line and averaged 8.3 pts.
His best overall FG% was this season- 36%. That's all we need is another point guard that can't keep the defense honest.
Quote from: wh on March 17, 2021, 01:36:49 PM
Quote from: RS on March 17, 2021, 01:07:05 PM
Saw this on transfer portal today ... Xavier Casteneda a Junior transferring from South Florida. VU offered him a scholarship 3 years ago. Played along with Javon Freeman at Whitney Young. A 6'1 Point guard that shot over 35% from 3 point line and averaged 8.3 pts.
His best overall FG% was this season- 36%. That's all we need is another point guard that can't keep the defense honest.
That may be true, yet Daniel Sackey shot 6-41 (14.6%) from three this year, and Donovan Clay shot 20-98 (20.4%) from three this year. A 35% shooter would be a remarkable improvement on that dimension.
Quote from: valpo95 on March 17, 2021, 03:55:36 PMQuote from: wh on March 17, 2021, 01:36:49 PMQuote from: RS on March 17, 2021, 01:07:05 PMSaw this on transfer portal today ... Xavier Casteneda a Junior transferring from South Florida. VU offered him a scholarship 3 years ago. Played along with Javon Freeman at Whitney Young. A 6'1 Point guard that shot over 35% from 3 point line and averaged 8.3 pts.
His best overall FG% was this season- 36%. That's all we need is another point guard that can't keep the defense honest.
That may be true, yet Daniel Sackey shot 6-41 (14.6%) from three this year, and Donovan Clay shot 20-98 (20.4%) from three this year. A 35% shooter would be a remarkable improvement on that dimension.
It's sad to think that as much as we complained about how horrible Sackey was from three... Clay, our "best" player, was only 6 percentage pts better...
wh good point about his fg percentage but he shot almost 39% from 3pt range. Not saying he is the perfect fit or even a fit for the team but he would keep teams from sagging off on him which is something everyone complained about Sackey and Clay
Quote from: vuny98 on March 17, 2021, 03:59:34 PM
Quote from: valpo95 on March 17, 2021, 03:55:36 PMQuote from: wh on March 17, 2021, 01:36:49 PMQuote from: RS on March 17, 2021, 01:07:05 PMSaw this on transfer portal today ... Xavier Casteneda a Junior transferring from South Florida. VU offered him a scholarship 3 years ago. Played along with Javon Freeman at Whitney Young. A 6'1 Point guard that shot over 35% from 3 point line and averaged 8.3 pts.
His best overall FG% was this season- 36%. That's all we need is another point guard that can't keep the defense honest.
That may be true, yet Daniel Sackey shot 6-41 (14.6%) from three this year, and Donovan Clay shot 20-98 (20.4%) from three this year. A 35% shooter would be a remarkable improvement on that dimension.
It's sad to think that as much as we complained about how horrible Sackey was from three... Clay, our "best" player, was only 6 percentage pts better...
Clay's shot from three seemed to me to be off line more often than not. Shots inside the three point line often came up short. The image that came to my mind all season was a golfer with the yips. I kept waiting for him to hit a few shots and come out of his slump and get some confidence but with the exception of a game or two, he didn't. On the other hand I had no confidence Sackey would hit a shot and he seldom disappointed me. I hated when the shot clock would wind down and too often he would end up with the ball. He was as likely to miss everything as even hit the backboard. Yes Clay's shooting percentage may not have been that much better than Sackey's this year, but at least there was hope.
Quote from: valpo95 on March 17, 2021, 03:55:36 PM
Quote from: wh on March 17, 2021, 01:36:49 PM
Quote from: RS on March 17, 2021, 01:07:05 PM
Saw this on transfer portal today ... Xavier Casteneda a Junior transferring from South Florida. VU offered him a scholarship 3 years ago. Played along with Javon Freeman at Whitney Young. A 6'1 Point guard that shot over 35% from 3 point line and averaged 8.3 pts.
His best overall FG% was this season- 36%. That's all we need is another point guard that can't keep the defense honest.
That may be true, yet Daniel Sackey shot 6-41 (14.6%) from three this year, and Donovan Clay shot 20-98 (20.4%) from three this year. A 35% shooter would be a remarkable improvement on that dimension.
Daniel
42% 2PT FG 14% 3PT FG
Xavier 34% 2PT FG
39% 3PT FGYes, we could trade 1-dimensional Daniel for 1-dimensional Xavier, but wouldn't it be nice to find a PG that can do both for a change?
Quote from: wh on March 17, 2021, 06:27:21 PM
Quote from: valpo95 on March 17, 2021, 03:55:36 PM
Quote from: wh on March 17, 2021, 01:36:49 PM
Quote from: RS on March 17, 2021, 01:07:05 PM
Saw this on transfer portal today ... Xavier Casteneda a Junior transferring from South Florida. VU offered him a scholarship 3 years ago. Played along with Javon Freeman at Whitney Young. A 6'1 Point guard that shot over 35% from 3 point line and averaged 8.3 pts.
His best overall FG% was this season- 36%. That's all we need is another point guard that can't keep the defense honest.
That may be true, yet Daniel Sackey shot 6-41 (14.6%) from three this year, and Donovan Clay shot 20-98 (20.4%) from three this year. A 35% shooter would be a remarkable improvement on that dimension.
Daniel 42% 2PT FG 14% 3PT FG
Xavier 34% 2PT FG 39% 3PT FG
Yes, we could trade 1-dimensional Daniel for 1-dimensional Xavier, but wouldn't it be nice to find a PG that can do both for a change?
While I agree it would be nice to have a point guard that can actually shoot, first and foremost, I want a point guard that it good at handling the ball/dribbling, can execute good passes and actually facilitate an offense. Maybe it was because Sackey wasn't much of a shooting threat, but the offense usually felt more stagnant with him out there. Too many times when Sackey drove inside, not only was he out of control and either get blocked or bricked a layup, but he did get the ball stripped a lot (to be fair, a lot of the team needs to work on ball handling).
My point is, during the Broekhoff years, Buggs wasn't a big offensive threat, but he did everything else to be a solid point guard. Would I love to have a point guard that can shoot 50/40/80? Of course. But let's not get just a shooter at the expense of all the other tools a successful point guard needs to have. Hopefully either Palesse or Devario are the full package.
Quote from: wh on March 17, 2021, 01:36:49 PMQuote from: RS on March 17, 2021, 01:07:05 PMSaw this on transfer portal today ... Xavier Casteneda a Junior transferring from South Florida. VU offered him a scholarship 3 years ago. Played along with Javon Freeman at Whitney Young. A 6'1 Point guard that shot over 35% from 3 point line and averaged 8.3 pts.
His best overall FG% was this season- 36%. That's all we need is another point guard that can't keep the defense honest.
The weird thing is that he shot better from 3 than he did from 2. He shot 38% from 3. He's not a shooter though.
Speaking of teams with lots of transfers, the University of Cincinnati has six players in or have announced their intention to go into the transfer portal. Four freshman (including their best), one sophomore, and a seldom used red shirt junior. They also currently have zero commits for next year. Former NKU head coach John Brannon will have some work to do to fill out his roster for next year.
Mid majors in the transfer portal ranked by the % of minutes they played.
349 listed. At bottom, click on "show 100 more" a few times. Can be sorted by conference.
https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?link=y&sIndex=4&showfull=1&cvalue=Mid&xvalue=trans&year=2021&minmin=0&start=20201101&end=20210501
Quote from: nkvu on March 18, 2021, 09:41:54 AMSpeaking of teams with lots of transfers, the University of Cincinnati has six players
Penn State 8
Portland 8
Green Bay 9
UT Martin 12
Coaching changes on any of those?
We can only hope that some transfers-in could make the difference for us next year.
Witness Drake with Hemphill coming in from Green Bay to be their leading scorer and Penn previously transferring in from Siena. Then there's Loyola with Norris transferring in from Oakland and Hall coming in from Indianapolis. Throw in a couple of JC guys and they have combined had a big impact on their program. Bradley always has a few.
Let's hope Matt et al can pull in a couple of guys to put us in a position to finally get over the top half hump. Like it or not, it is a big part of college basketball.
Well crap, JO is now in the transfer portal as well. Thats a big loss.
I think that's a serious red flag for the program. Promising freshman who got a good amount of playing time and developed well over the course of the year deciding to jump ship...
You can't justify seven players entering the transfer portal as a normal part of college basketball. Clearly, something is very wrong within the program right now. It's a shame that Lottich received a contract extension based off of one miracle weekend. Looks like it could be a long couple of winters in NWI.
I have a feeling big time programs came calling, You know they reach out before a lot of these kids enter the portal. So much behind the scenes recruiting happens all the time. He will be great and still has four years. This one hurts the most. I really enjoyed his game.
Breaking News: Valpo Fans consider entering the Transfer Portal. Asked to comment, a representative stated: "This is a difficult decision. I have nothing against Valpo. The community—students, faculty, athletics department, fellow fans, the pep band, the ushers, the Crusader, Culver's ice cream people, etc.—has been good, and any possible transfer of loyalty will be friendly. However, times change (even if the ARC hasn't) and circumstances certainly are different. The facilities may look the same as they always have, but this program does not resemble what it once was. Although there may be a physical departure, many fond memories will remain."
WTF. The ship is taking on water...QUICKLY. I doubt President Padilla will be OK with all the stuff going on. If Ray Brown is an example, expect heads to roll.
Quote from: vu72 on March 22, 2021, 11:03:59 AMWTF. The ship is taking on water...QUICKLY. I doubt President Padilla will be OK with all the stuff going on. If Ray Brown is an example, expect heads to roll.
Nothing will happen, assuming it does, until after "it" is settled and we see the results of that settling. So we're talking at least a year from now. I'm referring specifically to the 7 in the portal issue.
I've been waffling back and forth regarding ML the last few months, but I'm starting (again) to be in the camp that something is very wrong and this time I may not be able to be persuaded back out of it. I wonder what actually happened with Nick Robinson and if some of these is a result of that fallout. You can replace the other players, but you don't replace a 6'8" sniper. This one sucks. With him and Krikke we had two excellent long term players, but with this news it feels like we're going to be back at the bottom. And that's not good. On the recruiting trail ML now has to overcome the questions of being at the bottom, the instability, and the facilities. Tough to get quality players that our peers (or better) want when we have to be jumping those hurdles now and those coaches can easily say...why go to Valpo, look at them?
Quote from: vu72 on March 22, 2021, 11:03:59 AMWTF. The ship is taking on water...QUICKLY. I doubt President Padilla will be OK with all the stuff going on. If Ray Brown is an example, expect heads to roll.
I've seesawed between calling for Lottich to be fired and giving him the benefit of the doubt. But I think this is the last straw. There needs to be an explanation of why we can't keep talent on our roster.
At this point, just give the job to Jake Diebler.
Wow. Just wow. I don't know what to say. This is crushing.
https://twitter.com/nwioren/status/1374010128261865477?s=21
Pal's post is both hilarious and hits pretty close to home.
Even putting aside the W/L record and transfers, there is a serious culture problem at the ARC. Barring 2-3 high level INCOMING transfers next season just picture what a ghost town the arena will be for the opener against A&T Tech State Northwest next November. Student attendance and interest declines every year and there doesn't seem to be a will or a plan to combat it. The pep band was barely 15 strong playing the same songs from when I was at Vu. The facilities are part of the problem, but they don't tell the whole story. JO, Clay, JFL, all knew what our facilities were when they signed. And before someone goes on a rant about "kids these days" I hope you watched ORU yesterday. They brought more kids to a tourney game hours away in a pandemic than Vu has brought to the ARC in three years, AND had a packed arena watching at home. Winning is a HUGE part of that of course, but without a good infrastructure to interest students and involve them you wouldn't see those levels.
Paul's tweets during Arch Madness about having experienced teams was spot on. You need upperclassmen who can spend 2-3 seasons growing and learning TOGETHER to get where we want to be. So what's the path? How does this program go from where it is today, with yet another offseason of roster gutting, to having an experience-laden roster ready for postseason success. I just don't see a path under this head coach.
The question needs to be asked why. Why are kids transferring?
The AD needs to do a thorough investigation.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 22, 2021, 11:59:13 AMPal's post is both hilarious and hits pretty close to home. Even putting aside the W/L record and transfers, there is a serious culture problem at the ARC. Barring 2-3 high level INCOMING transfers next season just picture what a ghost town the arena will be for the opener against A&T Tech State Northwest next November. Student attendance and interest declines every year and there doesn't seem to be a will or a plan to combat it. The pep band was barely 15 strong playing the same songs from when I was at Vu. The facilities are part of the problem, but they don't tell the whole story. JO, Clay, JFL, all knew what our facilities were when they signed. And before someone goes on a rant about "kids these days" I hope you watched ORU yesterday. They brought more kids to a tourney game hours away in a pandemic than Vu has brought to the ARC in three years, AND had a packed arena watching at home. Winning is a HUGE part of that of course, but without a good infrastructure to interest students and involve them you wouldn't see those levels. Paul's tweets during Arch Madness about having experienced teams was spot on. You need upperclassmen who can spend 2-3 seasons growing and learning TOGETHER to get where we want to be. So what's the path? How does this program go from where it is today, with yet another offseason of roster gutting, to having an experience-laden roster ready for postseason success. I just don't see a path under this head coach.
While the coach may be an issue, the culture questions are spot on. I don't think the facilities matter all that much but attendance and enthusiasm for the program do. Part of that can be on the coach, players, AD. Part of that can also be due to the makeup of student body.
Is this transfer and play immediately stuff just this year or is this the way it will be permanently? If so, I guess we will look to be a minor league developmental team for the big guys. Bring kids in, develop them for a year or two, the best ones leave, wash and repeat. Maybe you pick up some players who want to transfer down who have comparable talent, but then your best players never have more than a year or two in a system which maybe limits what kind of schemes you can run. If this becomes the norm for mid-majors I think the overall quality of play will diminish as you won't have those teams with talented seniors who have three years in a system. Then the gap between mid-majors and P-5 only gets bigger. Hate to see it.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 22, 2021, 12:01:43 PM
The question needs to be asked why. Why are kids transferring?
The AD needs to do a thorough investigation.
This is a serious issue. How could players after 1 year of being at this school already want out? I get that some of these guys are talented and may think eventually they can move up a level, but I don't get how larger schools could pick off our guys after just one season of play. If these schools are using 1 year as evidence, then why weren't they recruited straight out of high school? This just doesn't add up to me.
My gut says there is a serious problem within the program and it starts with the coach. His offensive scheme just does not work, who knows what else in addition to the Robinson situation has gone on in the locker room and from a results standpoint, all Lottich has to show for the last 5 years is an NIT birth which he was gifted and a lucky run to the conference title once. 5 years of this is enough for me. Lottich needs to go, who in the administration has the guts to right the ship?
Keep in mind this is the AD who gave Tracy Dorow an extension after 4 years and a 33-90 record when her contract was set to expire and he could have moved on without any financial issues.
Quote from: nkvu on March 22, 2021, 12:24:24 PMaybe you pick up some players who want to transfer down who have comparable talent
I sure don't know what the answer is let alone what the problem is. I think Matt can coach but can he communicate? Remember his team beat a full strength Drake team and nearly beat Loyola on the road. As for transfers, some transfer "down" and some transfer "up". Remember that Drake's leading scorer came from Green Bay as did Loyola's Norris from Oakland and Tate Hall from Indianapolis. These guys would certainly be considered to have transferred "Up"
Remember this is a national trend so it's ok....nothing to do with Lottich.
I can't wait to see how some of us justify this transfer. Can't say shooting, or a parent, etc. There is an fundamental issue with the program
Can you imagine if 50% of your co-workers left every other year. how successful would your company be.
I think there have been pretty justifiable reasons for the majority of our transfers...JO leaving is different. Lottich and company have to be better at recruiting the guys we have in order to retain them. It has become more and more difficult not to enter the fan transfer portal as I think someone hinted at earlier.
JO is the only surprise to me. If he is just trying to transfer up, it is just another example of a mentality that I don't understand. All of the big programs overlooked you, because they thought you played against crap competition, and instead of trying to beat those BS programs, you want to join them? I would take such a thing as a slight, much like AP did.
This data from the NCAA website is pretty telling about the current generation:
That said, about 40% of all men's basketball players who enter Division I directly out of high school depart their initial school by the end of their sophomore year.
I asked this before, yet I still don't know how many of players who enter the transfer portal end up transferring, especially with the remarkable growth in the transfer portal numbers. Does anyone have any insight into those statistics?
If there is a coaching change, it is now pretty common for almost all of the players to enter the portal, then try to get "recruited" back to their existing school by the incoming coach.
It may also be that programs are far more careful with the behind the scenes "recruiting" of players and are encouraging them to put their name in the portal. In the past, the P5 coach would have had an off the record phone call or two about transferring, either with the player or representatives. Now, a coach is expected to do more, and it would be hard to hide a string of text messages for example. Thus, the first thing the player is asked to do is enter the portal, with or without pulling the trigger on the transfer itself.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 22, 2021, 11:53:03 AM
Wow. Just wow. I don't know what to say. This is crushing.
https://twitter.com/nwioren/status/1374010128261865477?s=21
Well, '72, the last time we posted about JO we cited him as an example of players who choose Valpo for all the right reasons. Now he's gone (presumably). As someone who has been fiercely loyal to Matt, I will wait to see how our final roster shakes out before passing judgement, but admittedly I'm feeling uneasy at the moment.
Last straw for me. We have an issue and it needs addressed. I might enter the fan transfer portal if we do nothing.
He's even Lutheran lol. Not sure how Matt could have recruited a better fit for Valpo. I will also be interested to see who ends up pulling their name out of the portal, once they hear from potential suitors. Is there any reason why only Donovan Clay shows as being in the 247sports portal, or is there another link with the official portal?
Quote from: valpotx on March 22, 2021, 03:30:01 PM
He's even Lutheran lol. Not sure how Matt could have recruited a better fit for Valpo. I will also be interested to see who ends up pulling their name out of the portal, once they hear from potential suitors. Is there any reason why only Donovan Clay shows as being in the 247sports portal, or is there another link with the official portal?
https://www.verbalcommits.com/transfers/2021
Quote from: valpopal on March 22, 2021, 10:35:44 AM
Breaking News: Valpo Fans consider entering the Transfer Portal. Asked to comment, a representative stated: "This is a difficult decision. I have nothing against Valpo. The community—students, faculty, athletics department, fellow fans, the pep band, the ushers, the Crusader, Culver's ice cream people, etc.—has been good, and any possible transfer of loyalty will be friendly. However, times change (even if the ARC hasn't) and circumstances certainly are different. The facilities may look the same as they always have, but this program does not resemble what it once was. Although there may be a physical departure, many fond memories will remain."
News Update: Learning about the restlessness of Valpo fans, and knowing the current poor economic state of the university, Matt Lottich and Luke Gore have decided the only route to success lies in rounding up their own transfers, seven tough gunslingers with deadly shooting and no-holds barred attitudes, to replace the seven players who have entered the transfer portal. Rather than develop talent from freshmen to seniors, the coaches will enlist the help of experienced mercenaries with expectations of future rewards to come to the rescue. A sneak peak video foreshadowing the Lottich/Gore plan was leaked to the press:
Quote from: justducky on March 22, 2021, 03:17:53 PM
Last straw for me. We have an issue and it needs addressed. I might enter the fan transfer portal if we do nothing.
I officially entered the fan transfer portal at 3:30 and by 3:35 had received offers from Oakland, Wright St., Southern Illinois and Grand Canyon. :o Butler and Loyola have also expressed interest! I must be a hot commodity!
I will not be surprised if we hear some "bad news" soon.
Quote from: Chairback on March 22, 2021, 04:14:00 PMI will not be surprised if we hear some "bad news" soon.
What could possibly be bad news at this point.
Quote from: Chairback on March 22, 2021, 04:14:00 PMI will not be surprised if we hear some "bad news" soon.
So what you're saying is that Krikke and Edwards are leaving? Or Keyondre Young has decomitted?
Cmon man, please don't post that kind of cryptic crap.
Isn't this kid a strong Lutheran or at least comes from a strong Lutheran family. I hate to believe that the mascot change had anything to do with this... but... Either way now we have impact FRESHMEN leaving the program after one year. This is bad. Very very very bad. And there's no way out of this for like 3 years. This extension was a mistake and is very likely to harm the program. I just hope the damage is reparable.
The scary part is will there by any more transfers?
Have we ever had a player announce he was transferring and ended up staying? I would think once you enter the portal you're pretty much set on moving on at that point.
Quote from: wh on March 22, 2021, 03:05:49 PMWell, '72, the last time we posted about JO we cited him as an example of players who choose Valpo for all the right reasons. Now he's gone (presumably). As someone who has been fiercely loyal to Matt, I will wait to see how our final roster shakes out before passing judgement, but admittedly I'm feeling uneasy at the moment.
I'm truly perplexed wh, Of all the kids leaving JO would have been my last guess. There is clearly trouble in paradise and it starts and stops with Matt. The only hope, and last gasp for his time at Valpo is that he finds a Tank Hemphill to join the remaining guys. At the moment we still have two starters back plus Goodnews, Connor, Zion and Eron plus a very talented group of freshman. Add one inside, experienced guy and we could make a go of it. If not, we lose Ben and others and the pitch forks and torches come out.
Quote from: Chairback on March 22, 2021, 04:14:00 PM
I will not be surprised if we hear some "bad news" soon.
In 1945 the Chicago Cubs were cursed with bad luck when the Billy Goat was banned from Wrigley Field, which became The Curse of the Billy Goat that lasted until 2016. Valparaiso has seemed to be cursed with bad luck since the university's banning of the inflatable Crusader from the ARC and now the mascot itself. Conspiracy theorists wonder: How long will The Curse of the Canceled Crusader last?
Quote from: valpolaw on March 22, 2021, 04:59:56 PM
The scary part is will there by any more transfers?
Have we ever had a player announce he was transferring and ended up staying? I would think once you enter the portal you're pretty much set on moving on at that point.
My guess is that Chairback is referencing Goodnews leaving? That also wouldn't surprise me, as it didn't seem like he and Lottich saw eye-to-eye, unless he had various injuries throughout the season.
JFL entered the portal after his FR season and came back. Hopefully, JO is salvageable, as that is a loss.
Quote from: valpotx on March 22, 2021, 05:39:39 PM
Quote from: valpolaw on March 22, 2021, 04:59:56 PM
The scary part is will there by any more transfers?
Have we ever had a player announce he was transferring and ended up staying? I would think once you enter the portal you're pretty much set on moving on at that point.
My guess is that Chairback is referencing Goodnews leaving? That also wouldn't surprise me, as it didn't seem like he and Lottich saw eye-to-eye, unless he had various injuries throughout the season.
JFL entered the portal after his FR season and came back. Hopefully, JO is salvageable, as that is a loss.
Just putting it out there that it's possible JO is transferring for personal and not basketball related reasons...
Seemed like he enjoyed his time at Valpo and Team, or at least as much as you could during a covid ridden season... could be a Clay Yeo situation of wanting to be closer to home. Maybe he moves To a school closer to home like Green Bay, Milwaukee or if Marquette hires Porter Moser, he recruits JO.
Just extremely disappointing. JO really developed during the 2nd half of the season.
When I said, I'm hot and cold on Lottich. It's hasn't changed. The guy can recruit but can't retain. Partially a college basketball problem. Partially a program issue. I don't know. I'm just exhausted of this era. Too many lows and not enough highs. Not enough accountability from an AD.
Loyola needs to keep winning so the rest of the MVC is distracted from what a dumpster fire Valpo has been and continues to be. Remember when so many of us Valpo fans were absolutely livid when they were chosen over us for the MVC spot that opened up when Creighton left? Yeah... Once again the fundamental difference is when they got here they got serious and committed and we didn't and we see the results. Loyola went from also-ran to juggernaut in a hurry while we are in danger of becoming the Fordham of the MVC.
At this point I would say that it does not matter if Lottich has been unlucky, if the college basketball landscape has conspired against him, or if he is just truly a terrible coach and leader.
He had his chance, it has not worked out, he needs to be fired and a new coach needs to be given a chance. Someone who can better navigate basketball in the '20s.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 22, 2021, 06:42:36 PMJust putting it out there that it's possible JO is transferring for personal and not basketball related reasons...
Not many reasons where I might give Matt a pass but this would be one. If not then my faith in Matt and loyalty to the program are at their ends. I am just not mentally structured to embrace any roster that completely turns over on a routine basis. I have to know players and watch their developments to maintain a ticket buying, ESPN following interest. If we are just another one and done collection of transfer mercenaries then I'm gone and others on this board will likely reach the same conclusion. Maybe I will go back to regular HS basketball viewing or limit myself strictly to the VU girls team (better program, better coach). Time for some soul-searching.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 22, 2021, 08:14:01 PM
Loyola needs to keep winning so the rest of the MVC is distracted from what a dumpster fire Valpo has been and continues to be. Remember when so many of us Valpo fans were absolutely livid when they were chosen over us for the MVC spot that opened up when Creighton left? Yeah... Once again the fundamental difference is when they got here they got serious and committed and we didn't and we see the results. Loyola went from also-ran to juggernaut in a hurry while we are in danger of becoming the Fordham of the MVC.
We have more wins in the MVC in our first 4 years, versus what Loyola did. How is that committing to something more than what we have done? They got a Krutwig, and that changed the program...
Once again the fundamental difference is when they got here they got serious and committed and we didn't and we see the results.
When we got here, we committed....
We committed to the assistant coach, second assistant coach, ok third assistant coach to be our leader of a program that has had storied success. Then we re-committed to the third assistant by giving an extension based on a 3 game rally in the MVC tourney last year.
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 22, 2021, 11:49:33 PM
Once again the fundamental difference is when they got here they got serious and committed and we didn't and we see the results.
When we got here, we committed....
We committed to the assistant coach, second assistant coach, ok third assistant coach to be our leader of a program that has had storied success. Then we re-committed to the third assistant by giving an extension based on a 3 game rally in the MVC tourney last year.
What did Loyola commit with, outside of getting lucky with Krutwig, Custer, and Richardson, much as we did with Rowdy and AP? Since the Final Four run, sure, but when they first entered the MVC? Other schools were questioning why the hell they were added.
Couple of thoughts the day after:
-I wonder how much not being able to really have a fall practice season or out of conference tourneys had an impact on the high number of transfers. There wasn't really many "bonding" opportunities this season to connect to your fellow teammates and even travel accommodations, hotel arrangements, and food were done with social distancing/limiting the spread in mind.
-Along those lines, how many want to be closer to home. If teams allowed "friends and family " into the games but your family lives 8+ hours away, I can imagine it'd be tough to see other team members getting to see their families while you don't and thinking about transferring closer back home so it could happen.
-im curious to see if the NCAA grants another immediate waiver eligibility or if the first time transfer eligibility happens. Otherwise some of these players could be out of normal/standard basketball for two full seasons. Will teams be willing to have someone use up a scholarship this upcoming season? (Which may make sense for teams who have a player coming back for their "extra " year)?
I think two things can be true:
1. Valpo needs to do more to retain its players and it's on the coaching staff and AD to figure it out. There are always going to be individual reasons that make sense for any player to transfer but but where are the reasons to stay and why are they not canceling them out. We can't control for everything but we can control for some things and whether we learn and get better is important and needs to happen.
2. This season really does have a LOT of compounding factors that may make it hard to truly assess what's going on. Two years ago we had a bunch but it also seemed that the coach was aware there were issues and the year after they had the "one team, one boat" mentality that led to better play and a conference run and the transfer of only one, a star player who clearly had people in his ear urging him to leave and the skill set that was always going to make him a transfer risk. Now we have this year with 7. Was last year the fluke or was this year just a lot of stuff that we weren't fully prepared for or aren't ideally suited to weather. There are a lot of factors encouraging transfers this year and I think that actually transferring successfully is going to be a lot harder over the next two years while the caps on scholarships shake out.
One year before the invite, Loyola made a huge facelift on the basketball facility. I could not find how much it costs but there are significant upgrades. Loyola has also done something to be able to keep the coach.
These are all great questions that are being asked by the Valpo fans and enthusiasts but I feel there is a lot of speculation.
Anyone have the means of putting these questions in front of the powers to be that would shed some light on the current situation before the majority of fans loose their minds?
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 23, 2021, 08:58:01 AM
One year before the invite, Loyola made a huge facelift on the basketball facility. I could not find how much it costs but there are significant upgrades. Loyola has also done something to be able to keep the coach.
About 20 years ago I was a faculty senator and I proposed that the university needed to create a longterm plan to elevate and promote men's basketball as its flagship sport that could create national attention. The burst of publicity from Bryce's shot and the Sweet Sixteen run three years earlier had died down, and I was concerned that nothing substantial had been done to capitalize on the event. Gonzaga had just appeared in the Sweet Sixteen two straight years and were on their way to a 29-win season at the time. They also were making the most of their success, recognizing the importance of their basketball program as an asset to the university. They were beginning plans to build a new arena as a down payment toward future investments and to establish stability. I recommended that the university form a committee to examine the success at Gonzaga (a religious institution with roughly the same number of students as Valpo then) and emulate some of their practices. I don't have to detail for you the negative responses to my proposal. Since then, Gonzaga has appeared in the NCAA tournament more than 20 straight years and they are currently ranked number 1. The return on investment for their university has been enormous. On the other hand, we can see what has happened at Valpo. Four years ago, I renewed my call for an examination of the longterm success of the basketball program at Valpo with a hope to exploit publicity surrounding entrance into the MVC. Again, nothing substantial has happened.
It kills me seeing ORU in the Sweet 16. We missed our chance to capitalize on our Sweet 16 and then missed the chance when we pulled off 5 of 6 HL championships and an invite to the MVC.
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 23, 2021, 11:03:10 AMWe missed our chance to capitalize on our Sweet 16 and then missed the chance when we pulled off 5 of 6 HL championships and an invite to the MVC.
Hard to realize at the time, when you're living in the glory days. We used our HL success to move into the MVC. Maybe we could have done more, but we didn't completely squander things.
Also, there are a lot of what if's for a few of those Valpo teams. What if Keith Carter makes that 3 at the buzzer and we beat Maryland in 2015? What if we make the tournament in 2016? How far does that team go? What if the wheels don't fall off in 2017 and we play all year with Jubril? What if Keith Carter plays a 5th year in 2017?
https://twitter.com/coachmcmurray/status/1374427629109932037?s=21
:o
They are finally starting to get it.
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 23, 2021, 03:25:23 PM:o They are finally starting to get it.
What do you mean?
I'm proud to be a "denier" and speak for Lottich and LaBarbera. Krikke is their best player and is staying at Valpo unless I missed something. Everyone else but Clay had some big holes in their game.
Someone put their finger on an issue that strikes me as critical. I've never met Lottich, but he is perceived to be very competitive and focused. Perhaps he is not that relatable or fun. I don't know. But in either case I think his job is more difficult by poor campus culture. You have tumbleweeds blowing through a huge overbuilt campus even without COVID, a quiet small town dark winter vibe, and a campus culture that seems very uninterested in sports. I personally learned from the CoVID games on TV that sports really aren't an exciting concept if there are not a lot of people enjoying a game experience with you. Bouncing a ball around and throwing it in a hoop or across an end zone in an empty building doesn't mean much if you aren't sharing the experience with friends or classmates. And if no one on campus cares a wit outside the games that can't be much fun either.
It's clear that Lottich and co have done a nice job of recruiting talented enough players to compete in the Valley, (Donovan, JFL, JO, Krike etc..) maybe not consistent title games, but we did get to one last year. Yes their have been some recruiting misses, but what program doesn't. As Horizon league members we were the better team than Loyola, defeated Missouri State four straight times (badly 3 of them) and spanked Drake by like 20 in the Music City challenge So clearly we had enough talent to go against the MVC teams then (small sample size) and now. Landing the talent hasn't been the issue at Valpo, keeping them is the issue for a variety of reasons. Yes many many teams have transfers, but Valpo has had more than it should of late. Companies have employees leave all the time, but in general low turnover it isn't always about the pay. Job satisfaction etc.. What's clear, Loyola, Drake, Northern Iowa are not having a lot of transfers. Why is that? Is Lottich a better evaluator of talent then Bryce? Did Bryce and staff develop players from start to finish better? Did he have as many transfer? More importantly, managing player personalities in practice, figuring out how to talk to each player one on one, defining roles on the court, getting players to execute and trust that roll. Since none of us are in practice we have no idea how Lottich's personalty and coaching style mesh with the players on and off the court. Remember how Bryce cleverly worked E Victor Nickerson into a Point guard role. He looked comfortable in that role and the team seemed to trust that decision. No attempts to cast aspersions on the current staff or insinuate Bryce did a better job with different players. Just have more questions than answers.
Quote from: crusadermoe on March 23, 2021, 05:06:40 PM
I'm proud to be a "denier" and speak for Lottich and LaBarbera. Krikke is their best player and is staying at Valpo unless I missed something. Everyone else but Clay had some big holes in their game.
Someone put their finger on an issue that strikes me as critical. I've never met Lottich, but he is perceived to be very competitive and focused. Perhaps he is not that relatable or fun. I don't know. But in either case I think his job is more difficult by poor campus culture. You have tumbleweeds blowing through a huge overbuilt campus even without COVID, a quiet small town dark winter vibe, and a campus culture that seems very uninterested in sports. I personally learned from the CoVID games on TV that sports really aren't an exciting concept if there are not a lot of people enjoying a game experience with you. Bouncing a ball around and throwing it in a hoop or across an end zone in an empty building doesn't mean much if you aren't sharing the experience with friends or classmates. And if no one on campus cares a wit outside the games that can't be much fun either.
Honestly, this is just a terrible comment.
Krikke and Clay don't have holes in their games? Krikke is a big man, who cannot rebound. Clay is primarily a perimeter player, who cannot shoot. There are very obviously glaring holes in both of Krikke and Clay's games. A simple look at their stats bears that out nicely.
And suggesting as long as a program doesn't lose its best player to transfer, then everything is hunky-dory, is completely asinine. How will a team develop its best players of the future if it consistently loses good, young players, like JO, to transfer. This is simply unsustainable if winning is the eventual goal. Furthermore, Valpo did lose its best player to transfer just a year ago. Or did you already forget?
Lottich is perceived as being competitive and focused? Says who? Anyway, such qualities should be an absolute baseline for any collegiate coach, of any sport, at any level -- let alone the D1 coach of a mens basketball program having NCAA tournament aspirations. It is not enough if Lottich is competitive and focused. He has proven to be a loser, which is the only thing that really matters.
His job is made more difficult by an unenthused campus culture, a quiet small town dark vibe? You have got to be kidding me. Well, given these evidently insurmountable obstacles perhaps Valpo should just give up, scrap the mens bball program completely. In fact, lets do away with athletics all together. Clearly athletes cannot compete in such an environment...
>:( ???
If I didn't know better I would have thought that this was the same blog like the old IU fans had talking about Bob Knight after he left Indiana. It is over, Bryce is gone. Get a life folks...I am tired of hearing about Bryce Drew.
I see 11 transfers in the portal that are 7'0" or greater. I am sure that there is no competition for their services... :)
We finally get a transfer into Valpo...6'5 G/F grad transfer from Winona State. Averaged 20.5 ppg and shot 34% from three. Per Paul Orens twitter. Interesting to see what his role would be. 21 ppg is no joke no matter what level.
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1375121660098002951
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1375122244846899205
http://www.oudaily.com/sports/ou-football-sooner-guard-trey-phipps-enters-ncaa-transfer-portal/article_f4a6beb2-8d78-11eb-988d-a73d4855ddc3.html (http://www.oudaily.com/sports/ou-football-sooner-guard-trey-phipps-enters-ncaa-transfer-portal/article_f4a6beb2-8d78-11eb-988d-a73d4855ddc3.html)
Valpo needs shooters. Trey can hit the 3 ball, its in his name. He was a former student of mine and played with All-American Bryce Thompson who is at KU'. As a kid, Trey has been to the ARC many times. His father was on staff at ORU and Trey would accompany him to Valpo most years. He has a lot of respect for Valpo (prior to ML years).
Well that's a start.
6'5" 220. Good size. 35/104 on 3s over 13 games for about 3 a game. Had 12 steals on the season (1/game) but noticed he also had 35 turnovers.
Always a spot on the team for someone who can bomb away.
and a grad transfer using his extra year with us so we won't have to worry about him taking a scholarship cap.
Quote from: vok22 on March 25, 2021, 11:22:54 AMWe finally get a transfer into Valpo...6'5 G/F grad transfer from Winona State. Averaged 20.5 ppg and shot 34% from three. Per Paul Orens twitter. Interesting to see what his role would be. 21 ppg is no joke no matter what level.
35% and 39% behind the arc the last two years and over 85% from the free throw line the last two years. Verbal which I hope sticks.
Much needed veteran presence for 1 season, which was a dire need. We've seen other schools have great success with top D2 players transferring up. I will hope for the same here!
Honestly wouldn't be that frustrated with this off-season if it wasn't for what I heard about lottich and Jacob transferring. Even what I head about Matt could be passed over if it wasn't for Jacob. Everyone transferring besides Jacob and Donavon were role players so it's whatever. Donavon could be an anomaly. Losing a talented freshman fuckkk1ng hurts though.
Quote from: AlecPeters101 on March 25, 2021, 09:08:32 PM
Honestly wouldn't be that frustrated with this off-season if it wasn't for what I heard about lottich and Jacob transferring. Even what I head about Matt could be passed over if it wasn't for Jacob. Everyone transferring besides Jacob and Donavon were role players so it's whatever. Donavon could be an anomaly. Losing a talented freshman fuckkk1ng hurts though.
We should wait to hear what the reason is for JO transferring, before we cast judgment on Lottich.
I seem to recall that the P-5 schools that recruited Alec Peters were looking for him to be a guy who stood at the three point line and got an occasional kick out three pointer. Valpo got him by promising to develop his inside game so he could be a more complete player. I'm afraid that if JO goes to a P-5 school they will look at him as a bench player to be used when they need a three point shooter to get them back into a game. JO needs a lot of work to develop his inside game against D-1 level players. I doubt P-5 teams will give him the opportunity to develop his entire game when they can recruit far more athletic bigs. At the same time I will be disappointed if he goes to another mid-major because I can't see him getting more playing time than he would have next year if he stayed at Valpo. I wonder if he considers the motion offense to be a good fit for his game as it doesn't seem to give him as many opportunities to get his three off as other offensive schemes might. It will be interesting to see what his reasons are for transferring if we ever find out.
Quote from: nkvu on March 25, 2021, 11:42:12 PM
I seem to recall that the P-5 schools that recruited Alec Peters were looking for him to be a guy who stood at the three point line and got an occasional kick out three pointer. Valpo got him by promising to develop his inside game so he could be a more complete player. I'm afraid that if JO goes to a P-5 school they will look at him as a bench player to be used when they need a three point shooter to get them back into a game. JO needs a lot of work to develop his inside game against D-1 level players. I doubt P-5 teams will give him the opportunity to develop his entire game when they can recruit far more athletic bigs. At the same time I will be disappointed if he goes to another mid-major because I can't see him getting more playing time than he would have next year if he stayed at Valpo. I wonder if he considers the motion offense to be a good fit for his game as it doesn't seem to give him as many opportunities to get his three off as other offensive schemes might. It will be interesting to see what his reasons are for transferring if we ever find out.
Depends where he goes. At a place like Wisconsin, they will definitely develop all aspects of his game (some of this is up to him as well), as schools like them and Villanova will post their guards up along with their bigs. Plus, since he's just a freshman, I would doubt they or any other school would pigeon-hole him into a role and prevent him from developing other areas of his game. Peters would have been more likely to have a certain role since it was a 1 year deal, and given that in his 1 NBA season he shot 3.6 times as many 3 pointers a game as 2 pointers, it seems like those P5 programs were right in a way.
Very troubling news. These are comments from Jacob published in the Sheboygan Press:
When Jacob Ognacevic committed to Valparaiso to play NCAA Division I basketball in August of 2019 he cited faith as a factor in his decision.
The Sheboygan Lutheran alum entered the transfer portal Monday after completing his freshman season because sometimes even faith isn't enough.
"Throughout the year, a lot of little things added up. The school wasn't what I thought it was," Ognacevic said. "When I was recruited I was sold on something the school wasn't. Players weren't held responsible like I expected them to be, got away with a lot."
Despite appearing in all 28 games for Valparaiso, the 6-8 forward was ninth in minutes, but he says playing time was not a factor in his decision to enter the transfer portal.
"I saw and heard some things, on and off the court, which were alarming," Ognacevic said. "Everyone in our locker room saw the issues. We've got seven guys leaving, that's why we were so inconsistent."
Ognacevic declined to offer details on what those issues were, saying there wasn't any one thing but a variety of little things during his time on campus.
"With a year under my belt I'll know which questions to ask," Ognacevic said. "What's the food and living situations, offseason program and everything. I'll see if coaches are being real with me or if they're fake."
Quote from: vu72 on March 26, 2021, 10:45:56 AM
Very troubling news. These are comments from Jacob published in the Sheboygan Press:
When Jacob Ognacevic committed to Valparaiso to play NCAA Division I basketball in August of 2019 he cited faith as a factor in his decision.
The Sheboygan Lutheran alum entered the transfer portal Monday after completing his freshman season because sometimes even faith isn't enough.
"Throughout the year, a lot of little things added up. The school wasn't what I thought it was," Ognacevic said. "When I was recruited I was sold on something the school wasn't. Players weren't held responsible like I expected them to be, got away with a lot."
Despite appearing in all 28 games for Valparaiso, the 6-8 forward was ninth in minutes, but he says playing time was not a factor in his decision to enter the transfer portal.
"I saw and heard some things, on and off the court, which were alarming," Ognacevic said. "Everyone in our locker room saw the issues. We've got seven guys leaving, that's why we were so inconsistent."
Ognacevic declined to offer details on what those issues were, saying there wasn't any one thing but a variety of little things during his time on campus.
"With a year under my belt I'll know which questions to ask," Ognacevic said. "What's the food and living situations, offseason program and everything. I'll see if coaches are being real with me or if they're fake."
I also remember clays dad posting on Twitter once "you have to hold your players accountable" or something along that line. Would really like to know the details here.
What in the world is going on with that coaching staff?
This program has become a joke.
"Program" is the key and it's possible it is not a "has become".
Regardless of whether it is true or not, it says a lot about the player who bashes his current team in the paper. All he had to say was it wan't the right fit. He can have a conversation with the AD about the actual reasons he left so they can be addressed.
It would be interesting to know why players needed to be held accountable. What happened? We will probably never know what is really happening. This is the only transfer that caught me by surprise. You also have to wonder what his expectations were compared to what he actually realized. And this was a strange strange year.
Quote from: JD24 on March 26, 2021, 11:48:39 AM
"Program" is the key and it's possible it is not a "has become".
?
Sounds to me like Jacob expected a Lutheran experience and that is not what he got. Unfortunately that does not surprise me.
Quote from: JBC1824 on March 26, 2021, 11:57:54 AMQuote from: JD24 on March 26, 2021, 11:48:39 AM"Program" is the key and it's possible it is not a "has become".
?
The kid referenced a number of issues....most of which have been brought up here at one time or another.
Top down. How invested is the University itself in the sports programs in general and basketball program specifically. I've never gotten the impression the board is and we have had at least a poster and maybe more than a poster chime in here that they are aware of and been in the position to be fully aware of the lack of interest the board has in the sports programs. This may be THE overall issue. This trickles down to a lot of the rest of the problem.
Facilities. If you've been to other campuses at the same level and even below the level the basketball program likes to think it is at, we're behind here. It's not just the Arc which, if a lot of the other stuff was improved could be used as the "charm" of the campus. Training facilities? Food and nutrition? Off season programs (which of course include both of those)? Housing? These are all a level down.
The AD? Is he and should he be the guy? I don't know but things have deteriorated over the last few years and there seems to be no stopping the bleeding. He could be simply doing what he's told. In that case he's the guy.
Coach and staff. Everyone or too many want to blame it all on the coach or even most of it. I'm not sure that's the case. He and they may certainly be an issue but too many look back 5 years and think of what was instead of what is. The college basketball landscape has also changed in the sense that, as soon as something goes south for these kids, they're in the transfer portal. Also, what puts one kid who's unhappy about something into the transfer portal may not be the same issue that puts another kid in the transfer portal. Thus the kid who's upset, possibly, about his Lutheran experience may be accompanied by another kid who perceives an over focus on the Lutheran experience. I'm actually aware of this exact situation in one other sport some years ago. To listen to the parents of these two kids, you'd have thought they were attending different schools. The problem now is that the kid just puts his name in the portal instead of talking to the staff.
The final piece is the campus environment which, from a number of sources including a bit of observation myself, there isn't all that much enthusiasm for the basketball program or any other sport and this does go back to the end of the Drew years. I'm really not sure why this is but it is and has been discussed on this board.
So, anyone looking at this as a single source issue is going to be significantly disappointed when not much changes with the next guy in the door even if that is, in my opinion, likely called for at this point......yet won't be acted on at least right now.
Agree that the program's issues do not simply begin and end with the coach. I wish it were that simple. The overall situation seems quite bleak.
Quote from: FWalum on March 26, 2021, 12:03:49 PM
Sounds to me like Jacob expected a Lutheran experience and that is not what he got. Unfortunately that does not surprise me.
When was the last time Valpo had a Lutheran coach?
I know it was a covid year, but I never saw Jacob in chapel.
Quote from: FWalum on March 26, 2021, 12:03:49 PM
Sounds to me like Jacob expected a Lutheran experience and that is not what he got. Unfortunately that does not surprise me.
There is nothing in what he said that was associated with religion or a Lutheran experience at Valpo. Lots of other concerning statements though.
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 26, 2021, 12:40:32 PMThere is nothing in what he said that was associated with religion or a Lutheran experience at Valpo. Lots of other concerning statements though.
I agree with what you say about what the kid was quoted as saying however....and this may be the writers interpretation or he simply left some of the players words:
QuoteWhen Jacob Ognacevic committed to Valparaiso to play NCAA Division I basketball in August of 2019 he cited faith as a factor in his decision.
The Sheboygan Lutheran alum entered the transfer portal Monday after completing his freshman season because sometimes even faith isn't enough.
"Throughout the year, a lot of little things added up. The school wasn't what I thought it was," Ognacevic said. "When I was recruited I was sold on something the school wasn't. Players weren't held responsible like I expected them to be, got away with a lot."
So the writer seems to have walked away with the impression there was a faith, in this case likely Lutheran, issue.
Quote from: JD24 on March 26, 2021, 12:49:42 PM
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 26, 2021, 12:40:32 PMThere is nothing in what he said that was associated with religion or a Lutheran experience at Valpo. Lots of other concerning statements though.
I agree with what you say about what the kid was quoted as saying however....and this may be the writers interpretation or he simply left some of the players words:
QuoteWhen Jacob Ognacevic committed to Valparaiso to play NCAA Division I basketball in August of 2019 he cited faith as a factor in his decision.
The Sheboygan Lutheran alum entered the transfer portal Monday after completing his freshman season because sometimes even faith isn't enough.
"Throughout the year, a lot of little things added up. The school wasn't what I thought it was," Ognacevic said. "When I was recruited I was sold on something the school wasn't. Players weren't held responsible like I expected them to be, got away with a lot."
So the writer seems to have walked away with the impression there was a faith, in this case likely Lutheran, issue.
Maybe someone else with specific knowledge will chime in on this issue, now that he has put this out there. To me, I know that faith was a big reason that he selected Valpo, and he is unlikely to have gotten what he wanted on that side, from most of his teammates or other athletes. I can never think of a time where religion was discussed while around my teammates.
The operational sentence, which supported the premise that he was sold on Valpo being something it was not, was: "Players weren't held responsible like I expected them to be, got away with a lot." That does not sound like a religion issue, that sounds like a discipline (or lack thereof) issue.
Quote from: FWalum on March 26, 2021, 12:03:49 PM
Sounds to me like Jacob expected a Lutheran experience and that is not what he got. Unfortunately that does not surprise me.
Huge difference between Lutheran ELCA and Lutheran LCMS. VU has drifted toward the liberal ELCA flavor over the years.
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 26, 2021, 01:35:59 PM
The operational sentence, which supported the premise that he was sold on Valpo being something it was not, was: "Players weren't held responsible like I expected them to be, got away with a lot." That does not sound like a religion issue, that sounds like a discipline (or lack thereof) issue.
Agreed. He went on to say that he is considering Green Bay and Milwaukee (among others), both obviously non-religious, because family could see him playing. Here is that section of the article:
He's heard from two schools in his home state, the University of Wisconsin-Green Bay and UW-Milwaukee, along with Power Five program Virginia Tech.
Ognacevic isn't going to let himself be awed by hearing from teams from larger conferences.
"Would be really cool," Ognacevic said of transferring to either school in Wisconsin. "I'm really big on family and it'd be pretty sweet to have my family at every game."
What is a "Lutheran Experience"? Did he think he was going to be playing with all Lutheran players?
I think some people are misinterpreting the article here. It says he chose the school because of faith, but that sometimes faith is not enough.
This seems to imply it was not a religious issue., but was unrelated to religion. I don't think anyone is going to leave Valpo because it's not Lutheran enough lol.
The school and staff was probably just not what he was looking for. It's as simple as that. It's unfortunate. But, this kind of thing happens all the time.
This isn't good no matter how anyone slices it. We recruit Wisconsin a lot. Bad press for the university or the coaching staff in this area is not going to help us at all especially when it's a rising freshman star who chose Valpo for perhaps the simplest best most wholesome reason possible: his faith. Something stinks here and I don't know if it's Lottich or something bigger but something needs to be done in light of this. Even with the transfer epidemic being what it is: 5+ transfers twice in three years is NOT NORMAL for a program especially one as respected as Valpo. Something is very wrong and I am sorry that I am so negative and pessimistic but I really feel like this better reflects the actual present reality of the situation than the sunny optimism that some are choosing.
Jon Rothstein today talking about the transfer issue and that there could be ultimately be between 1500 and 2000 in the portal and, if so, he expected that anywhere from 300-500 of those in the portal would be left without teams to play for or scholarships when it all settles. Also said it is going to make a bad situation for the mid majors even worse.
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 26, 2021, 01:35:59 PM
The operational sentence, which supported the premise that he was sold on Valpo being something it was not, was: "Players weren't held responsible like I expected them to be, got away with a lot." That does not sound like a religion issue, that sounds like a discipline (or lack thereof) issue.
Faith and activities outside of sports, can sometimes go hand-and-hand. Again, I believe that patience is required here, before jumping to conclusions. Once he announces the school that he is transferring, I can only guess that more specific reasons might come to light, from those that might know more to the story. I have to believe that would be the same for Clay and Sackey. Helm, Siggy, Mileek, and Nick, all make sense as is.
JO's public comments in that article really leave me with little to no faith in Lottich and Co.
These comments from him are really embarrassing and leave me with a bad perspective of Lottich. This coupled with Nick Robinsons decisions for leaving have soured me against Lottich's leadership. I have not been sold sold on his coaching ability, so this only adds to my distaste of his impact on the program.
Valpo basketball was a huge part of my undergraduate experience, with some of my best memories of Valpo related to the basketball program. It is in many ways heartbreaking to have to witness this implosion of something I did hold dear.
Quote from: VUSERF on March 26, 2021, 05:51:54 PMThese comments from him are really embarrassing and leave me with a bad perspective of Lottich. This coupled with Nick Robinsons decisions for leaving have soured me against Lottich's leadership. I have not been sold sold on his coaching ability, so this only adds to my distaste of his impact on the program.
For me, it's not the fact that we have a lot of transfers but it's the circumstances surrounding Robinson and J.O. How many teams have two players go to the media in order to explain their decision?
Just came across this, thought it was interesting:
https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/college/university-of-cincinnati/2021/03/26/cincinnati-basketball-uc-ad-cunningham-announces-program-review/7012496002/
It amazes me that people are taking the words of a disgruntled transfer as one who has all the answers to a particular team's problem, coaching, etc. I believe that the words coming from a 19 or 20 year old athlete should not be used to pronounce judgement on a particular situation without further evaluation. These good young athletes usually value themselves highly and often need to think before opening up their mouths. This transfer thing is getting waaaay out of hand as we all know. The number of players entering the portal is astounding, including several teams in the Valley last year and the number of transfers on some teams this year including both large majors and mid-majors. Isn't it something that Sackey never had a negative word concerning Valpo, including the coaches and team members even as he entered the portal. If anyone perhaps should be upset it would be him, even though the reduction in his playing time was justified. And he has been around for 3 years! I would value his comments much more than JO's. Yet some take the word of a freshman transfer as "gospel". Some people appear to know alot about Matt Lottich but probably know little or nothing about the make-up of JO. Yet some have already pronounced judgement. Let's be honest, between the Covid thing and screwed up schedule both on and off the floor this past season, along with the ridiculous transfer rule, this past year has been a mess. Some need to engage their brain before opening their mouth, including young college basketball players and posters on this blog. Let's get the facts first!
Those of you who say "I'm not gong to take the words from a disgruntled 20 year old"
Those of you who say "I'm not worried, because he was just a roll player at best"
Gentleman, there is a problem. Too many people leaving the program (players and coaches) Coaching staff has had a large turnover since ML took over too. Players are leaving, good, bad and roll players.
ML wasn't ready......
Quote from: valpo64 on March 26, 2021, 08:08:41 PM
some take the word of a freshman transfer as "gospel". Some people appear to know alot about Matt Lottich but probably know little or nothing about the make-up of JO.
I did get to know JO, and I will not reveal anything about private interactions, almost none concerning basketball anyway, so I haven't commented before on this, but I will merely say I consider him to be a fine young man that I'm sorry to see VU lose.
Quote from: valpo64 on March 26, 2021, 08:08:41 PMIt amazes me that people are taking the words of a disgruntled transfer as one who has all the answers to a particular team's problem, coaching, etc. I believe that the words coming from a 19 or 20 year old athlete should not be used to pronounce judgement on a particular situation without further evaluation. These good young athletes usually value themselves highly and often need to think before opening up their mouths. This transfer thing is getting waaaay out of hand as we all know. The number of players entering the portal is astounding, including several teams in the Valley last year and the number of transfers on some teams this year including both large majors and mid-majors. Isn't it something that Sackey never had a negative word concerning Valpo, including the coaches and team members even as he entered the portal. If anyone perhaps should be upset it would be him, even though the reduction in his playing time was justified. And he has been around for 3 years! I would value his comments much more than JO's. Yet some take the word of a freshman transfer as "gospel". Some people appear to know alot about Matt Lottich but probably know little or nothing about the make-up of JO. Yet some have already pronounced judgement. Let's be honest, between the Covid thing and screwed up schedule both on and off the floor this past season, along with the ridiculous transfer rule, this past year has been a mess. Some need to engage their brain before opening their mouth, including young college basketball players and posters on this blog. Let's get the facts first!
Okay but how about the words of like 15-17 or so players who have left this program in the last three years? If we could get most or all of their comments would that be enough? I think the perspective of folks who have actually played for Matt Lottich (like Golder JO Clay and JFL for instance all of whom have or have had family members vocally criticize Lottich) is worth a lot more than the perspective of any of us or anyone who has a vested interest (I.E. the administration and AD) in not admitting that the Lottich era has been a failure. If multiple productive players have transferred and have either themselves or through their families vocally criticized Lottich then the problem is probably Lottich whether we care to admit it or not.
This is a direct quote from the Indiana State Basketball message board. Take this with a grain of salt cause we have no idea of the accuracy of this, but anyone can go to their message board and see that this was posted. Again take it as you will.
"Its getting hard to enjoy mid-major basketball when everybody transfers that's worth half a **** And it takes a 27-3 record with NO bad loses to be on the good side of the bubble. It's getting ridiculous.
as a side note, I work in valpo with some guys that know a player on Valpos team and their source says it's a complete divide in the VU locker room. No accountability, players show up 30 min late to required team events, back talk in practice, etc."
Quote from: mj on March 26, 2021, 06:42:31 PM
Quote from: VUSERF on March 26, 2021, 05:51:54 PMThese comments from him are really embarrassing and leave me with a bad perspective of Lottich. This coupled with Nick Robinsons decisions for leaving have soured me against Lottich's leadership. I have not been sold sold on his coaching ability, so this only adds to my distaste of his impact on the program.
For me, it's not the fact that we have a lot of transfers but it's the circumstances surrounding Robinson and J.O. How many teams have two players go to the media in order to explain their decision?
I have to believe that JO's hometown paper reached out to him, and not the other way around. Nick legitimately went public on his own, however. Even with that in mind, I am withholding judgment on Lottich, until we hear both sides of the stories, as it relates to Clay, JO, and Sackey.
Clay is most likely because he wanted to be more like the JFL role, in a guard-focused position, but it was his own fault that they had to play him in multiple positions on offense, as he can't shoot! Lottich has to turn lemons into lemonade, when a SG who can't shoot, is so athletic and still deserves playing time, so you have to play him anywhere to get some type of production.
Sackey? Couldn't buy a 3, layups were always a circus, and his speed worked against him, much of the time. He sees the writing on the wall that his playing time was going to decline, and wants to position himself for some type of pro career elsewhere.
JO will be the interesting one. Again, if you were expecting some type of mass activities around faith, just by attending Valpo, you are going to be disappointed. Players of all sports go out and party (guilty), people cuss during practices/games, and we don't sit around a campfire singing top Christian/Gospel music at all times. He seems like a pretty straight-laced guy, and if he was hoping for experiences around his faith, it's going to be hard to get that at the D-1 level.
"The school wasn't what I thought it was". What in the world does that mean? On it's face that statement would make you think that he thought given his "faith" emphasis that the school didn't emphasize the Lutheran connection enough. Yet later, he is talking about how nice it would be to play for Green Bay (a state school with how many transfers out?) or Milwaukee, another state (non Lutheran) school. Even when I was at Valpo 50 years ago yes the university was Lutheran affiliated but they didn't jam it down your throat. You could be as "Lutheran" as you wanted to be, but nobody took attendance at chapel services. So unless JO wants to go to a southern evangelical (non Lutheran) school somewhere, what's left? A non D1 school like St. Olaf's? They have a great choral music program but I haven't heard that JO is a singer. Or maybe the faith stuff is BS and it's all team and coaching stuff. Maybe that's what the university should look into.
I think part of it, and maybe a lot of it, is based on the lack of respect shown to teammates/coaches that set him off. Coming from a small Lutheran High School, my guess is that his experiences were WAY different than what he saw at Valpo dealing with D1 athletes from a variety of backgrounds. Who knows.
Quote from: nkvu on March 27, 2021, 01:52:12 AM
"The school wasn't what I thought it was". What in the world does that mean? On it's face that statement would make you think that he thought given his "faith" emphasis that the school didn't emphasize the Lutheran connection enough. Yet later, he is talking about how nice it would be to play for Green Bay (a state school with how many transfers out?) or Milwaukee, another state (non Lutheran) school. Even when I was at Valpo 50 years ago yes the university was Lutheran affiliated but they didn't jam it down your throat. You could be as "Lutheran" as you wanted to be, but nobody took attendance at chapel services. So unless JO wants to go to a southern evangelical (non Lutheran) school somewhere, what's left? A non D1 school like St. Olaf's? They have a great choral music program but I haven't heard that JO is a singer. Or maybe the faith stuff is BS and it's all team and coaching stuff. Maybe that's what the university should look into.
Quote from Chitwood:
"I think some people are misinterpreting the article here. It says he chose the school because of faith, but that sometimes faith is not enough. This seems to imply it was not a religious issue, but was unrelated to religion."
Quote from VU Basketball page:
"High school coach Nick Verhagen said Ognacevic's work ethic was unlike anyone he'd ever seen except for Sam Dekker."
Quote from JO:
"Players weren't held responsible like I expected them to be, got away with a lot."
Quote from: valpotx on March 26, 2021, 11:33:10 PM
Quote from: mj on March 26, 2021, 06:42:31 PM
Quote from: VUSERF on March 26, 2021, 05:51:54 PMThese comments from him are really embarrassing and leave me with a bad perspective of Lottich. This coupled with Nick Robinsons decisions for leaving have soured me against Lottich's leadership. I have not been sold sold on his coaching ability, so this only adds to my distaste of his impact on the program.
For me, it's not the fact that we have a lot of transfers but it's the circumstances surrounding Robinson and J.O. How many teams have two players go to the media in order to explain their decision?
He [JO] seems like a pretty straight-laced guy, and if he was hoping for experiences around his faith, it's going to be hard to get that at the D-1 level.
To mention a few, he'll get that at:
Grand Canyon
Liberty
Abilene Christian University
Quote from: valpopal on March 27, 2021, 08:57:10 AMQuote from: nkvu on March 27, 2021, 01:52:12 AM"The school wasn't what I thought it was". What in the world does that mean? On it's face that statement would make you think that he thought given his "faith" emphasis that the school didn't emphasize the Lutheran connection enough. Yet later, he is talking about how nice it would be to play for Green Bay (a state school with how many transfers out?) or Milwaukee, another state (non Lutheran) school. Even when I was at Valpo 50 years ago yes the university was Lutheran affiliated but they didn't jam it down your throat. You could be as "Lutheran" as you wanted to be, but nobody took attendance at chapel services. So unless JO wants to go to a southern evangelical (non Lutheran) school somewhere, what's left? A non D1 school like St. Olaf's? They have a great choral music program but I haven't heard that JO is a singer. Or maybe the faith stuff is BS and it's all team and coaching stuff. Maybe that's what the university should look into.
Quote from Chitwood: "I think some people are misinterpreting the article here. It says he chose the school because of faith, but that sometimes faith is not enough. This seems to imply it was not a religious issue, but was unrelated to religion." Quote from VU Basketball page: "High school coach Nick Verhagen said Ognacevic's work ethic was unlike anyone he'd ever seen except for Sam Dekker." Quote from JO: "Players weren't held responsible like I expected them to be, got away with a lot."
As mentioned above, you can have players transferring for completely different interpretations of the same issue. These are kids and many (not necessarily JO) are often supported by helicopter parents who will believe and act on anything the kid says which is all sourced in youth sports.
For instance, Robinson complained that he wasn't supported and essentially told he needed to show up, practice and play. He didn't want to....whether for a legit reason or not....left and complained about it. JO says the players weren't held responsible like he expected them to be. He left and complained about it.
So which is it? Maybe there's inconsistency here but, again, we're dealing with kids who if they don't get the extra three musketeers bar they were expecting one day will declare that they are transferring in this current atmosphere.
Should it be looked into? Sure.
Quote from: nkvu on March 27, 2021, 01:52:12 AM
"The school wasn't what I thought it was". What in the world does that mean? On it's face that statement would make you think that he thought given his "faith" emphasis that the school didn't emphasize the Lutheran connection enough. Yet later, he is talking about how nice it would be to play for Green Bay (a state school with how many transfers out?) or Milwaukee, another state (non Lutheran) school. Even when I was at Valpo 50 years ago yes the university was Lutheran affiliated but they didn't jam it down your throat. You could be as "Lutheran" as you wanted to be, but nobody took attendance at chapel services. So unless JO wants to go to a southern evangelical (non Lutheran) school somewhere, what's left? A non D1 school like St. Olaf's? They have a great choral music program but I haven't heard that JO is a singer. Or maybe the faith stuff is BS and it's all team and coaching stuff. Maybe that's what the university should look into.
He still wouldn't get that experience at St. Olaf. Both of my parents graduated from there, as well as one of my cousins. You are not required to conduct religious activity, any more than what I did at Valpo.
These are also young people making decisions and thinking that they know the world, for which they certainly do not. I and all of us can say the same when we were that age, but maybe not to the magnitude of the entitlement they require.
It's sad that these guys cannot leave gracefully, not fully understand the circumstances in their words, and throw people and programs under the bus. Their words can haunt them in their future endeavors whatever they are.
Why are we bashing these kids right now? We have no idea what is going on inside of that locker room. They do.
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 28, 2021, 09:05:49 AM
These are also young people making decisions and thinking that they know the world, for which they certainly do not. I and all of us can say the same when we were that age, but maybe not to the magnitude of the entitlement they require.
It's sad that these guys cannot leave gracefully, not fully understand the circumstances in their words, and throw people and programs under the bus. Their words can haunt them in their future endeavors whatever they are.
It seems odd to me that there are numerous posts on this board seeking to find out why so many players are leaving the program or speculating about their motives; however, when a player offers an explanation, it is met with antagonism and skepticism by some. I think the more reasonable route would be asking for free speech to take place all around. A reporter or university administrator could question the coaches about the recent amount of transfers or specific players' public statements following departure and request a public response.
Quote from: vok22 on March 28, 2021, 12:37:38 PM
Why are we bashing these kids right now? We have no idea what is going on inside of that locker room. They do.
Because Lottich supporters would rather not know the truth.
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 28, 2021, 01:06:47 PM
Quote from: vok22 on March 28, 2021, 12:37:38 PM
Why are we bashing these kids right now? We have no idea what is going on inside of that locker room. They do.
Because Lottich supporters would rather not know the truth.
That's an unnecessary cheap shot - kids transfer all the time for any number of reasons.
Of course, winning league titles and making the NCAAs reduce the likelihood of transferring. Yet I'm sure VU's athletic director is a lot closer to the situation than anyone on this board, and he's the one who has to make decisions about the future of every head coach.
That doesn't mean we don't want the truth, or are blindly supporting the coach. We all want to see long-term improvement, and at some point everyone knows that consistent 0.500 or below performance will get any MBB coach fired. Yet look at Porter Moser's tenure at Loyola - he has gone from a poor to a mediocre to an excellent record and suddenly he's the hot coaching candidate for destination programs.
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 28, 2021, 01:06:47 PM
Quote from: vok22 on March 28, 2021, 12:37:38 PM
Why are we bashing these kids right now? We have no idea what is going on inside of that locker room. They do.
Because Lottich supporters would rather not know the truth.
I would say the same for the #FireLottich crowd. You are just looking at it from a high level, and because you don't like our record, assuming that it has to be ML. As another poster mentioned, let's see what happens after each officially transfers, and if we get additional information from each situation. I only care about learning more about Clay, Sackey, and JO, and I am sure that we will hear about it in the coming weeks/months.
.500 record or below - check
several players transfer, role, good and bad - check
coaching staff turnover every other year - check
Repeat.
No there's nothing wrong here....
Quote from: VUSERF on March 26, 2021, 05:51:54 PM
JO's public comments in that article really leave me with little to no faith in Lottich and Co.
These comments from him are really embarrassing and leave me with a bad perspective of Lottich.
JO violated the equivalent of a basic employer/employee convention that you simply don't badmouth a former employer in a public forum or a job interview, unless there are extremely extenuating circumstances (something like racial discrimination).
Why? Because it raises questions in prospective employer's minds that you don't want there. Questions like:
• What's the other side of this story?
• Is this person impossible to please?
• Do they not have reasonable expectations of their manager?
• Will they be a pain in the neck to have on staff?
• Are they going to quit here too the first time something happens that they don't like?
• Are they going to be badmouthing me someday too?
• Why doesn't this person realize that you don't say things like that? Is what they "told out of school" reflective of their overall maturity?
JO will find a place, but unquestionably he committed an unforced error that serves no one's best interests.
Figured I'd chime in here since there's enough veiled shots at "maybe a reporter could..."
I called JO the day he went in the portal. He asked for a couple of days because he was busy, but confirmed name was in the portal. I waited a couple of days, I reached out again. He asked if we could talk the next day. Sure. The story in local paper comes out that night.
I reach out the next morning. He says we'll touch base later in the day. He messages as I'm walking into a wedding. We agreed to talk yesterday.
We spoke and he completely walked back the comments he made in his local paper. A lot of "i don't want to get into it," and "I'm very grateful for the coaches and my entire experience at Valpo." I asked him to elaborate on some of the comments. He said he would rather not. I pressed one more time and that was it.
I've got a big transfer data story coming out later this week and I'm saving the quotes for that.
Here is my take. Some of these guys are leaving because they don't like Lottich. It should be noted that some of these guys are staying because the like Lottich. Some of these guys are leaving because this wasn't what they signed up for. Some of these guys are leaving because they have vastly different perceptions of their talent/role than the coaches do. I'm sure that could be said for transfers all over the place. Some of these guys are transferring because they are seniors and they were set to leave anyway.
Quote from: Pgmado on March 28, 2021, 04:53:56 PM
Figured I'd chime in here since there's enough veiled shots at "maybe a reporter could..."
I called JO the day he went in the portal. He asked for a couple of days because he was busy, but confirmed name was in the portal. I waited a couple of days, I reached out again. He asked if we could talk the next day. Sure. The story in local paper comes out that night.
I reach out the next morning. He says we'll touch base later in the day. He messages as I'm walking into a wedding. We agreed to talk yesterday.
We spoke and he completely walked back the comments he made in his local paper. A lot of "i don't want to get into it," and "I'm very grateful for the coaches and my entire experience at Valpo." I asked him to elaborate on some of the comments. He said he would rather not. I pressed one more time and that was it.
I've got a big transfer data story coming out later this week and I'm saving the quotes for that.
Here is my take. Some of these guys are leaving because they don't like Lottich. It should be noted that some of these guys are staying because the like Lottich. Some of these guys are leaving because this wasn't what they signed up for. Some of these guys are leaving because they have vastly different perceptions of their talent/role than the coaches do. I'm sure that could be said for transfers all over the place. Some of these guys are transferring because they are seniors and they were set to leave anyway.
Speaking of "veiled shots": I'll assume this was partially directed at my comment. ;)
However, I was not addressing questioning a player, but the coach, and I specified "a reporter or university administrator" could ask for a public response: "It seems odd to me that there are numerous posts on this board seeking to find out why so many players are leaving the program or speculating about their motives; however, when a player offers an explanation, it is met with antagonism and skepticism by some. I think the more reasonable route would be asking for free speech to take place all around. A reporter or university administrator could question the coaches about the recent amount of transfers or specific players' public statements following departure and request a public response."Essentially, I was requesting obtaining a response from Lottich about these recent and more significant developments the way he replied when asked about Robinson's remarks, though quotes from Lottich didn't seem to deny Robinson's take on the situation.
When it comes to Lottich I believe we are officially in the same mode as most politically minded folks out there.
Most of us have made up our minds, which means we're only going to seek out information that confirms our beliefs, ignore any contradictory evidence, and personally attack those that disagree with us.
https://twitter.com/wisbbyearbook/status/1375501296929808385?s=21
https://twitter.com/evan_flood/status/1374876459215519748?s=21
https://twitter.com/manimalelite/status/1375824186552254466?s=21
Quote from: valpopal on March 28, 2021, 05:20:39 PMQuote from: Pgmado on March 28, 2021, 04:53:56 PMFigured I'd chime in here since there's enough veiled shots at "maybe a reporter could..." I called JO the day he went in the portal. He asked for a couple of days because he was busy, but confirmed name was in the portal. I waited a couple of days, I reached out again. He asked if we could talk the next day. Sure. The story in local paper comes out that night. I reach out the next morning. He says we'll touch base later in the day. He messages as I'm walking into a wedding. We agreed to talk yesterday. We spoke and he completely walked back the comments he made in his local paper. A lot of "i don't want to get into it," and "I'm very grateful for the coaches and my entire experience at Valpo." I asked him to elaborate on some of the comments. He said he would rather not. I pressed one more time and that was it. I've got a big transfer data story coming out later this week and I'm saving the quotes for that. Here is my take. Some of these guys are leaving because they don't like Lottich. It should be noted that some of these guys are staying because the like Lottich. Some of these guys are leaving because this wasn't what they signed up for. Some of these guys are leaving because they have vastly different perceptions of their talent/role than the coaches do. I'm sure that could be said for transfers all over the place. Some of these guys are transferring because they are seniors and they were set to leave anyway.
Speaking of "veiled shots": I'll assume this was partially directed at my comment. ;) However, I was not addressing questioning a player, but the coach, and I specified "a reporter or university administrator" could ask for a public response: "It seems odd to me that there are numerous posts on this board seeking to find out why so many players are leaving the program or speculating about their motives; however, when a player offers an explanation, it is met with antagonism and skepticism by some. I think the more reasonable route would be asking for free speech to take place all around. A reporter or university administrator could question the coaches about the recent amount of transfers or specific players' public statements following departure and request a public response." Essentially, I was requesting obtaining a response from Lottich about these recent and more significant developments the way he replied when asked about Robinson's remarks, though quotes from Lottich didn't seem to deny Robinson's take on the situation.
I would expect the only response to be, and this is from any coach, some form of "it just didn't work out here and we wish him luck in the future". A complete waste of time.
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 28, 2021, 02:59:42 PM
.500 record or below - check
several players transfer, role, good and bad - check
coaching staff turnover every other year - check
Repeat.
No there's nothing wrong here....
Not going to comment on the player transfer comment but instead the Coaches leaving comment.
Assistants leave all the time in college basketball (especially at the mid-major level). Under Lottich how many Assistants have we had leave Coach Dildy, Coach Ragland, & Coach Townsend?
Coach Dildy was offered a Big 10 gig with Northwestern. Much more $, got go back to his hometown in Chicago to live (I know Evanston is Chicago but real close). Nothing to see here. Good initial hire.
Coach Ragland left for Utah State in the MWC and probably also got a pay raise. Coach Ragland if you look at his track record, job hops from opportunity to opportunity and has been quite successful at it. Valpo was a successful stepping stone in his coaching career. I know he has no hard feels with Valpo. A great guy by the way. I thought he should been a top candidate for the Evansville and Indiana State head coaching gigs.
Coach Townsend also left but that was for personal family related reasons I believe. His family was in Wisconsin while he was Coaching in Valparaiso. That's tough on the family. Coach Lottich and him are like Brothers. I highly encourage everyone read Paul's article about Coach Townsend and Coach Lottich. When Coach Townsend left, Coach Bowen was promoted.
I believe Coach Chad Warner was a special assistant Lottich's first or 2nd season. He came in with head coaching experience and I think was an advisor to Lottich about being a new head coach. I believe that was also going to be temporary after 1 year. He left to go become a head coach at a non-D1 in Florida, Flagler University.
I don't see any correlation with the Assistant turnover and read that a few times in the forum.
Coach Lottich seems like a very competitive, tough and emotional guy. Maybe that doesn't jive with some kids. He might not be the warm and fuzzy guy that some kids want. And might be unlikable to some kids. I don't know him well enough to know one way or another. Just reading the tea leaves.
There are things to like and not like about Coach Lottich as an outside observer. I do think he's a very high character individual. But I'm just not sure this tenure is work out the way Mark LaBarbera intended it would. If a squad full of Juniors: Alec Peters, Shane H, Jubril Adekoya didn't have one more year of eligibility to run it back, would he have still used the "Butler Method" of hiring from within? I don't think it would have been as important to him. Roger Powell turned down the job after Bryce left, and it came down on to Gore or Lottich. He went with Lottich and the results as what they are. Alec Peters' senior year didn't go as planned but he did come back, which had LaBarbera hired someone AP was unfamiliar with, he like would have been a grad-transfer. I'm sure Lottich was good in the interview process. But the results are what they are. He got some kind of extension after the Arch Madness run before the Covid Lockdowns. I heard it was a 4 year extension, but I can't verify that.
I'm trying to be fair. If all his players never transferred this team would have a legit at-large chance with JFL, Clay, & JO. Transfers are part of the game. What I'm concerned about is the same offensive challenges and draughts. From the 2017 Milwaukee Horizon League game (which there were injury/illness circumstances in that game that no one likes to talk about with Shane being sick, no Jubril.l, no AP, Lexus was hurt I think) to the 2021 Missouri State Arch Madness game and everything in between. Is he a little over his skies? I don't know but the results haven't been consistent.
Maybe Lottich will be a great head coach and it will all come together. I don't know. Maybe he's in a similar situation as Porter Moser at Illinois State. Porter was a young head coach with ISU and failed and got fired. He took a job at SLU as an assistant under the legend Rick Majerus and learned next to him before getting the Loyola gig and rising to become one of the best Mid Major Coaches in the game. Maybe he just wasn't ready. I don't know. I just hope that the AD can look objectively at the situation and learn to admit a mistake if he feels he made one. Sometimes it's easier just to rip off the band aid when you know it's going to hurt in the shirt term but will help the wound heal later on. I don't know what the answer is guys.
All I know is the fan base isn't happy or content with the results and they shouldn't be. We should expect better results. I like the recruiting class coming in. We need results.
Lottich's teams have shown significant improvements from the beginning of the season to the end... But let's be real, there are some problems with in-game adjustments and, most importantly, it's clear most of the team does not respond well to him.
Everyone that was around the Bryce-era knows that he did a great job motivating and empowering his players. They always played w/ energy and joy. That has been significantly tampered down of late. In the college basketball world, fun is often undervalued as a criteria for success. If you look at successful teams (even the most disciplined), they all have fun.
I think this is what he needs to work on. Man management. If the players were empowered and enjoying their experience, they would be less likely to transfer. Plain and simple.
I would agree that he appears to be a competitive minded coach. But, I get the impression as a neutral observer that he does not appear to have full control of the team.
Finally, some people on here are being extremely unfair to younger generations. From disregarding their opinions to saying they need "warm and fuzzy" coaching and cannot handle tough coaching. I think this is completely inaccurate. If we listen to the players, they tell us that Lottich's main problem is that he is not tough enough. If he doesn't have control of the team, no wonder why people want to leave.
Quote from: Chitwood on March 29, 2021, 10:42:55 AMIf we listen to the players, they tell us that Lottich's main problem is that he is not tough enough. If he doesn't have control of the team, no wonder why people want to leave.
I've heard two different things. One player is leaving because he thinks the coaching staff was too hard on him. Another is leaving because he thinks the coaching staff wasn't hard enough. Now extrapolate that out to 17 people on the team. Some need sugar and some need spice.
Quote from: Pgmado on March 29, 2021, 05:07:41 PM
Quote from: Chitwood on March 29, 2021, 10:42:55 AMIf we listen to the players, they tell us that Lottich's main problem is that he is not tough enough. If he doesn't have control of the team, no wonder why people want to leave.
I've heard two different things. One player is leaving because he thinks the coaching staff was too hard on him. Another is leaving because he thinks the coaching staff wasn't hard enough. Now extrapolate that out to 17 people on the team. Some need sugar and some need spice.
Nailed it. People are different and need to be managed differently. I'm sure it's tough managing egos and different personalities for a group of talented young men that have different motivations.
Chitwood, to your point about not enjoying the experience. This must have been a pretty miserable season. Guys were locked their dorm rooms quarantining several times throughout the season. I'm not sure what Lottich or the Coaches could do to make it more "enjoyable" for them. Daniel Sackey spent Christmas in dorm room away from his family. I think a lot of College Athletes didn't have a great college experience this year and that is why we may be seeing more transfers. And chances are because we'll be hopefully passed this Covid pandemic by next Winter (I really hope so), they will have a better and more fulfilling college experience! It's been a $H@t year.
As to the empowering comment, please elaborate. No offense but that sounds like fluffy type comment that HR tells employees during a mandatory office meeting. Sounds great but what does that even mean? Coach Lottich wasn't giving the Team free reign during a pandemic where there are mandatory health protocols and strict practice protocols of what kids can and can't do. The whole offense gives a ton leeway to players to take open 3s even if ill-advised at times. Lottich offense gives lot's of autonomy to the players and that was a selling point to recruits. (Listen to Paul's podcast with the most recent recruiting class, Cameron Palesse mentions it). Motivated and empowered easy things for us fans to comment about win the Team is in a rut. There were times where energy lacked on the court but I'd play devils advocate that they looked tired and gassed because they were coming off several weeks of quarantine and no conditioning in their dorm rooms. Like I've said I'm hot and cold on Lottich. I have my concerns but I also know people never take a look at the whole picture (I want to emphasize myself included).
Quote from: Pgmado on March 29, 2021, 05:07:41 PMQuote from: Chitwood on March 29, 2021, 10:42:55 AMIf we listen to the players, they tell us that Lottich's main problem is that he is not tough enough. If he doesn't have control of the team, no wonder why people want to leave.
I've heard two different things. One player is leaving because he thinks the coaching staff was too hard on him. Another is leaving because he thinks the coaching staff wasn't hard enough. Now extrapolate that out to 17 people on the team. Some need sugar and some need spice.
Said the same thing a couple of days ago.
Quote from: FWalum on March 26, 2021, 12:03:49 PM
Sounds to me like Jacob expected a Lutheran experience and that is not what he got. Unfortunately that does not surprise me.
It does sound something like when certain Lutheran students don't like Valpo because their experiences with Lutheran schools is a lot different. One must always remember that there are two very different branches of the Lutheran church and some young people don't find that out until they get to Valpo.
Jacob MAY be looking for Div. 1 basketball with a conservative Lutheran experience. I'm not sure that is left in the United States. Valpo has changed over time.
Yesterday the number of Div I student-athletes who have entered the transfer portal surpassed 1000 (1011 as I type this). The number keeps rising
By my count, there are seventy-one teams who have five or more athletes who have entered the portal -- that's 20% of all DI teams!
Quote from: bbtds on March 30, 2021, 03:33:33 AMJacob MAY be looking for Div. 1 basketball with a conservative Lutheran experience. I'm not sure that is left in the United States. Valpo has changed over time
If he is looking for D1 basketball at a Lutheran university, He's down to Wagner as his only choice.
Quote from: bbtds on March 30, 2021, 03:33:33 AM
Quote from: FWalum on March 26, 2021, 12:03:49 PM
Sounds to me like Jacob expected a Lutheran experience and that is not what he got. Unfortunately that does not surprise me.
It does sound something like when certain Lutheran students don't like Valpo because their experiences with Lutheran schools is a lot different. One must always remember that there are two very different branches of the Lutheran church and some young people don't find that out until they get to Valpo.
Jacob MAY be looking for Div. 1 basketball with a conservative Lutheran experience. I'm not sure that is left in the United States. Valpo has changed over time.
Quote from Chitwood: "I think some people are misinterpreting the article here. It says he chose the school because of faith, but that sometimes faith is not enough. This seems to imply it was not a religious issue, but was unrelated to religion." Quote from VU Basketball page: "High school coach Nick Verhagen said Ognacevic's work ethic was unlike anyone he'd ever seen except for Sam Dekker." Quote from JO: "Players weren't held responsible like I expected them to be, got away with a lot."
Quote from: bbtds on March 30, 2021, 03:33:33 AM
It does sound something like when certain Lutheran students don't like Valpo because their experiences with Lutheran schools is a lot different. One must always remember that there are two very different branches of the Lutheran church and some young people don't find that out until they get to Valpo.
...Valpo has changed over time.
The Lutheran experience would be very different today than from many alumni. According to the numbers I have, this is the percentage of undergrads who identify as Lutheran:
1970 67%
1980 51%
1990 52%
2000 40%
2009 35.2%, split as follows 13.9% ELCA, 18.1% LCMS, 3.0% other Lutheran
2019 20.7% split as follows 4.3% ELCA, 8.8% LCMS, 7.6% other Lutheran
Quote from: valpopal on March 30, 2021, 08:30:45 AMQuote from: bbtds on March 30, 2021, 03:33:33 AMQuote from: FWalum on March 26, 2021, 12:03:49 PMSounds to me like Jacob expected a Lutheran experience and that is not what he got. Unfortunately that does not surprise me.
It does sound something like when certain Lutheran students don't like Valpo because their experiences with Lutheran schools is a lot different. One must always remember that there are two very different branches of the Lutheran church and some young people don't find that out until they get to Valpo. Jacob MAY be looking for Div. 1 basketball with a conservative Lutheran experience. I'm not sure that is left in the United States. Valpo has changed over time.
Quote from Chitwood: "I think some people are misinterpreting the article here. It says he chose the school because of faith, but that sometimes faith is not enough. This seems to imply it was not a religious issue, but was unrelated to religion." Quote from VU Basketball page: "High school coach Nick Verhagen said Ognacevic's work ethic was unlike anyone he'd ever seen except for Sam Dekker." Quote from JO: "Players weren't held responsible like I expected them to be, got away with a lot."
Agree, I think everyone focusing on the Lutheran piece is missing the whole point of why he left. It may have been a factor in why he choose Valpo (Probably not the biggest factor), but not the reason he is leaving nor does it necessarily dictate where he will go. Part of the reason I chose Valpo was its Engineering program, but by the end of my Freshman year I was transferring to the business program. If I were to have left, I would not have chosen a new school based on its Engineering program. That's not to say JO is quitting being a Lutheran, just an example that your decision criteria changes after you have some experience. JO said as much in the article:
"With a year under my belt I'll know which questions to ask," Ognacevic said. "What's the food and living situations, offseason program and everything. I'll see if coaches are being real with me or if they're fake."
lots of players entering the portal but doesn't seem to be a lot of action in schools picking up players. Is it usually this quiet this long? Most teams are done playing so it's not that, curious if or why teams are being cautious in filling spots.
Quote from: bbtds on March 30, 2021, 03:33:33 AM
Quote from: FWalum on March 26, 2021, 12:03:49 PM
Sounds to me like Jacob expected a Lutheran experience and that is not what he got. Unfortunately that does not surprise me.
It does sound something like when certain Lutheran students don't like Valpo because their experiences with Lutheran schools is a lot different. One must always remember that there are two very different branches of the Lutheran church and some young people don't find that out until they get to Valpo.
Jacob MAY be looking for Div. 1 basketball with a conservative Lutheran experience. I'm not sure that is left in the United States. Valpo has changed over time.
Let me expound a little on my comment. I have been involved with Lutheran schools all the way from grade school, high school, university and seminary. At least here in a MSL, somewhat conservative environment, a student/athlete would expect a disciplined and respectful environment. Yes, that is changing as things get more progressive, but I would wager that JO's experience in high school was much more disciplined and potentially religiously structured than what he perceived to happen at VU. As has been said many times in commercials, it is all about perception.
Quote from: vu72 on March 30, 2021, 08:08:10 AMQuote from: bbtds on March 30, 2021, 03:33:33 AMJacob MAY be looking for Div. 1 basketball with a conservative Lutheran experience. I'm not sure that is left in the United States. Valpo has changed over time
If he is looking for D1 basketball at a Lutheran university, He's down to Wagner as his only choice.
I'm sure planting him on Staten Island will cheer him up.
So the total is now 1043, already a head of the all time record set last year at 1026. The good news is that we no longer have the most as Indiana State is at 8. A total of 28 so far in the Valley.
Quote from: vuny98 on March 30, 2021, 10:37:45 AM
Quote from: valpopal on March 30, 2021, 08:30:45 AMQuote from: bbtds on March 30, 2021, 03:33:33 AMQuote from: FWalum on March 26, 2021, 12:03:49 PMSounds to me like Jacob expected a Lutheran experience and that is not what he got. Unfortunately that does not surprise me.
It does sound something like when certain Lutheran students don't like Valpo because their experiences with Lutheran schools is a lot different. One must always remember that there are two very different branches of the Lutheran church and some young people don't find that out until they get to Valpo. Jacob MAY be looking for Div. 1 basketball with a conservative Lutheran experience. I'm not sure that is left in the United States. Valpo has changed over time.
Quote from Chitwood: "I think some people are misinterpreting the article here. It says he chose the school because of faith, but that sometimes faith is not enough. This seems to imply it was not a religious issue, but was unrelated to religion." Quote from VU Basketball page: "High school coach Nick Verhagen said Ognacevic's work ethic was unlike anyone he'd ever seen except for Sam Dekker." Quote from JO: "Players weren't held responsible like I expected them to be, got away with a lot."
Agree, I think everyone focusing on the Lutheran piece is missing the whole point of why he left. It may have been a factor in why he choose Valpo (Probably not the biggest factor), but not the reason he is leaving nor does it necessarily dictate where he will go. Part of the reason I chose Valpo was its Engineering program, but by the end of my Freshman year I was transferring to the business program. If I were to have left, I would not have chosen a new school based on its Engineering program. That's not to say JO is quitting being a Lutheran, just an example that your decision criteria changes after you have some experience. JO said as much in the article:"With a year under my belt I'll know which questions to ask," Ognacevic said. "What's the food and living situations, offseason program and everything. I'll see if coaches are being real with me or if they're fake."
Just my opinion the more I hear about the JO transfer I'm not sure he's coming from a fully mature opinion on things. I mean credit to him for know what he wants out a Coach, School, religious institution, meal plan.... but he had really high expectations for what he wanted Valparaiso University to be and it wasn't in this covid riddled year. The students who attended Valparaiso University this year did not get the College experience I did because there were so many covid and health protocol restrictions that never existed when I went there. That is EVERY school!
Look I don't want to knock an 18-19 year old kid. My perspective has grown dramatically from when I was that age. He seems really bitter and a bit childish the more I find out. Life isn't perfect and just because it was a crappy experience your freshman year doesn't mean it would be that way your next 3years.
I hope he finds what he's looking for. If we are passed covid by next Winter, he will have a better experience just by the nature of society getting passed this pandemic. He's so young, I don't blame him for not having the life experience to look at things that way.
Quote from: FWalum on March 30, 2021, 01:25:37 PMLet me expound a little on my comment. I have been involved with Lutheran schools all the way from grade school, high school, university and seminary. At least here in a MSL, somewhat conservative environment, a student/athlete would expect a disciplined and respectful environment. Yes, that is changing as things get more progressive, but I would wager that JO's experience in high school was much more disciplined and potentially religiously structured than what he perceived to happen at VU. As has been said many times in commercials, it is all about perception.
I've gone to or been affiliated with Lutheran schools my entire life. I don't generally associate with being Lutheran. My father became a Methodist pastor when I was 19 and that was always the church I went to growing up.
I went to Concordia University Wisconsin coming out of high school. Every year, four of the Concordia schools (Wisconsin, Chicago, St. Paul and Seward, Nebraska) would play basketball in the CIT (Concordia Invitational Tournament). It was the biggest athletics event of the year. There was lots of good-hearted trash talk between the four schools and one of the things that was often said about Seward is that was where the real Bible thumpers went to school. That said, Concordia Wisconsin had their fair share. I believe there was a cross in every classroom. I got dumped by a girl I dated for a few months at Concordia because she "didn't have a firm enough relationship with God" and she wanted to lock that down before she explored a relationship with another human. (She was married before she finished college) Most of the athletes that I encountered at Concordia Wisconsin went to the school because of the Lutheran connection and they just happened to play sports as well.
Then I transferred to Valparaiso, "The National Lutheran University," as it was known. I can tell you as someone who has spent three years here as a student and 16 as an educator, God is hardly ever talked about in the classroom. I've taught public speaking at Valpo and I never bring up religion. Yet, when I took public speaking at Concordia, the class was used as a way to get pastors more comfortable talking in front of congregations. Most of the athletes that I encounter at Valpo didn't pick the school because of the Lutheran connection. They play sports at Valpo and the school just happens to be religious as well.
I say all that to say this...there seems to be a question as to whether or not Valparaiso is a religious enough school for some. The answer is whatever you want it to be. Everything is put on hold in the morning so the entire campus can come together and worship...or, as one athlete told me, "Chapel Break is for Breakfast." Every student is required to take theology as part of their course work...or, you only have to take two religion classes, the same as foreign language, science and social science.
So if the question is whether or not the coaches were real or fake with him, that is open to interpretation. If students want to come here and get religion as part of their daily lives, it is available to them. If students want to come here and not get religion as part of their daily lives, that is available to them as well. As is living in the middle, which is what most of the students seem to do.
Quote from: vuny98 on March 30, 2021, 10:37:45 AM
Quote from: valpopal on March 30, 2021, 08:30:45 AMQuote from: bbtds on March 30, 2021, 03:33:33 AMQuote from: FWalum on March 26, 2021, 12:03:49 PMSounds to me like Jacob expected a Lutheran experience and that is not what he got. Unfortunately that does not surprise me.
It does sound something like when certain Lutheran students don't like Valpo because their experiences with Lutheran schools is a lot different. One must always remember that there are two very different branches of the Lutheran church and some young people don't find that out until they get to Valpo. Jacob MAY be looking for Div. 1 basketball with a conservative Lutheran experience. I'm not sure that is left in the United States. Valpo has changed over time.
Quote from Chitwood: "I think some people are misinterpreting the article here. It says he chose the school because of faith, but that sometimes faith is not enough. This seems to imply it was not a religious issue, but was unrelated to religion." Quote from VU Basketball page: "High school coach Nick Verhagen said Ognacevic's work ethic was unlike anyone he'd ever seen except for Sam Dekker." Quote from JO: "Players weren't held responsible like I expected them to be, got away with a lot."
Agree, I think everyone focusing on the Lutheran piece is missing the whole point of why he left. It may have been a factor in why he choose Valpo (Probably not the biggest factor), but not the reason he is leaving nor does it necessarily dictate where he will go. Part of the reason I chose Valpo was its Engineering program, but by the end of my Freshman year I was transferring to the business program. If I were to have left, I would not have chosen a new school based on its Engineering program. That's not to say JO is quitting being a Lutheran, just an example that your decision criteria changes after you have some experience. JO said as much in the article:"With a year under my belt I'll know which questions to ask," Ognacevic said. "What's the food and living situations, offseason program and everything. I'll see if coaches are being real with me or if they're fake."
This is the public information that he has put out, yes. Let's see how it compares to any future information that might come from the coaching staff.
This year's portal is going to become musical chairs with more contestants than seats.
Quote from: wh on March 30, 2021, 03:14:26 PM
This year's portal is going to become musical chairs with more contestants than seats.
On the bright side for them, there's tons of spots open for a certain school in northwest indiana.
Quote from: a3uge on March 30, 2021, 03:19:17 PMQuote from: wh on March 30, 2021, 03:14:26 PMThis year's portal is going to become musical chairs with more contestants than seats.
On the bright side for them, there's tons of spots open for a certain school in northwest indiana.
Question for some of these players is....when the music stops is there a seat for them?
Quote from: wh on March 30, 2021, 03:14:26 PMThis year's portal is going to become musical chairs with more contestants than seats.
Sounds like a buyers market for us.
I would be worried if I was a freshman or sophomore in the portal just because most schools are going to be thinking about that extra year and want to keep balance in their classes.
If all of edwards, barrett and Jacob(or if we replaced Jacob with another freshman) stayed plus our 4 new guys that would put one class at 7 people with 4 years of eligibility left next year and then you have 6 more scholarships to spread over years 3-1. If I was a coach i'd want to replace with either lights out home runs recruits if they'll have 3 or more years left OR people who will have no more than 2 years. You're gonna want to bring in new players and in my mind better to wait and focus on a top recruit and make sure you have space for them in 2022/2023 than bring in an avg freshman/sophomore player and risk not having enough spots to bring more people in. There's going to be a backlog somewhere and at some point and I really think transferring is gonna get harder over the next year or two because there are going to be a lot of under recruited high school students to fill open roster slots.
Quote from: vu72 on March 30, 2021, 02:17:10 PM
So the total is now 1043, already a head of the all time record set last year at 1026. The good news is that we no longer have the most as Indiana State is at 8.
Of course, Indiana State's coach had already been placed in the transfer portal as well. ;)
Would love to land a guy like Cooper at Valpo. He struggled coming back from injury but a lights out shooter. I don't see us going after former MVC that are transferring directly from another MVC school.
I'm wondering what we'll do at PG. I think our only true PG is an incoming freshman which isn't ideal. Kevion is a shooting guard I believe
Quote from: VU2014 on March 30, 2021, 04:11:54 PM
Would love to land a guy like Cooper at Valpo. He struggled coming back from injury but a lights out shooter. I see us going after former MVC that are transferring directly from another MVC school.
I'm wondering what we'll do at PG. I think our only true PG is an incoming freshman which isn't ideal. Kevion is a shooting guard I believe
A couple of freshman can play there but I've heard they want Eron or Sheldon to play the point. Either of them will add a shooter and size which we have really lacked.
Quote from: FWalum on March 30, 2021, 01:25:37 PM
Quote from: bbtds on March 30, 2021, 03:33:33 AM
Quote from: FWalum on March 26, 2021, 12:03:49 PM
Sounds to me like Jacob expected a Lutheran experience and that is not what he got. Unfortunately that does not surprise me.
It does sound something like when certain Lutheran students don't like Valpo because their experiences with Lutheran schools is a lot different. One must always remember that there are two very different branches of the Lutheran church and some young people don't find that out until they get to Valpo.
Jacob MAY be looking for Div. 1 basketball with a conservative Lutheran experience. I'm not sure that is left in the United States. Valpo has changed over time.
Let me expound a little on my comment. I have been involved with Lutheran schools all the way from grade school, high school, university and seminary. At least here in a MSL, somewhat conservative environment, a student/athlete would expect a disciplined and respectful environment. Yes, that is changing as things get more progressive, but I would wager that JO's experience in high school was much more disciplined and potentially religiously structured than what he perceived to happen at VU. As has been said many times in commercials, it is all about perception.
Nail - Head
Quote from: vu72 on March 30, 2021, 08:08:10 AM
Quote from: bbtds on March 30, 2021, 03:33:33 AMJacob MAY be looking for Div. 1 basketball with a conservative Lutheran experience. I'm not sure that is left in the United States. Valpo has changed over time
If he is looking for D1 basketball at a Lutheran university, He's down to Wagner as his only choice.
As Wagner is ELCA, not that closely associated anymore with the ELCA and on Staten Island which is nothing like Wisconsin, I don't think Wagner is the place for Jacob.
It wouldn't shock me if he landed at Green Bay
I'm thinking Concordia - Mequon Div. III might be what Jacob is looking for but at the same time if Div. I basketball is what he truly wants he may feel GCU, Baylor, Liberty, ORU, etc. are the schools for him and that the rest of the US is not as Lutheran as Wisconsin / Minnesota.
Saw that three Syracuse players are entering the transfer portal, two with significant minutes. Freshman PG Kadary Richmond (who got three starts when Buddy Boeheim was out) would look pretty good in a Valpo uniform.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/31167739/syracuse-orange-kadary-richmond-robert-braswell-john-bol-ajak-leaving-program (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/31167739/syracuse-orange-kadary-richmond-robert-braswell-john-bol-ajak-leaving-program)
Quote from: bbtds on March 30, 2021, 07:33:05 PM
I'm thinking Concordia - Mequon Div. III might be what Jacob is looking for but at the same time if Div. I basketball is what he truly wants he may feel GCU, Baylor, Liberty, ORU, etc. are the schools for him and that the rest of the US is not as Lutheran as Wisconsin / Minnesota.
We have very little to go on as to why JO left Valpo, so even suggesting Mequon is unnecessary. It sure seems that Div. I is in his future, though it could be closer to home.
interesting quote from the Syracuse article:
"We're going to have to adjust to it and start recruiting in the transfer portal," Boeheim said. "Being able to transfer and play right away means if you have any issue at all, any issue, you're going to leave."
How do coaches adjust to a world where they don't have as much structure keeping the guys around to work through issues or concerns.
Quote from: crusader05 on March 30, 2021, 09:11:09 PMinteresting quote from the Syracuse article: "We're going to have to adjust to it and start recruiting in the transfer portal," Boeheim said. "Being able to transfer and play right away means if you have any issue at all, any issue, you're going to leave."
Coaches arent the only ones who'll have to adjust. Fans will also. Make sure these guys are getting that extra Three Musketeers bar because, if they don't, off they go.
QuoteHow do coaches adjust to a world where they don't have as much structure keeping the guys around to work through issues or concerns.
The $64,000 question.
Say Valpo is a heathen university and JO starts every game and is the focal point of the offense instead of backing up a noticably lazy player who sometimes has more fouls every other possession, does he still leave?
Let it sink in that JO was 7th in minutes played but had the highest PER on the team, the most points p/40, highest FG%, and by far the most capable 3pt shooter. Who wouldn't feel burned riding the bench when your team loses 18 games?
Lottich hasn't pulled down 3 or 4 star recruits, or anyone near NBA-caliber. The recruits that turn out to be good have quickly transferred out. What are we doing here?
Loyola just joined the teams with a transfer. Cooper Kaifes is in the portal.
Quote from: vu72 on March 31, 2021, 09:00:35 AM
Loyola just joined the teams with a transfer. Cooper Kaifes is in the portal.
That must be a misprint. ;)
Quote from: a3uge on March 31, 2021, 08:11:30 AMSay Valpo is a heathen university and JO starts every game and is the focal point of the offense instead of backing up a noticably lazy player who sometimes has more fouls every other possession, does he still leave? Let it sink in that JO was 7th in minutes played but had the highest PER on the team, the most points p/40, highest FG%, and by far the most capable 3pt shooter. Who wouldn't feel burned riding the bench when your team loses 18 games? Lottich hasn't pulled down 3 or 4 star recruits, or anyone near NBA-caliber. The recruits that turn out to be good have quickly transferred out. What are we doing here?
I'd argue his recruiting has been pretty good. However, his rotations and his reluctance to take minutes away from players who's play doesn't deserve it is one of my biggest gripes about Lottich. Sackey should not have played the minutes he did. Mileek should not have started, let alone starting over a kid that has actual promise like JO. Goodnews would have a big game one night and then sit the bench for most of the next game. I don't want a coach that will bench a guy from one bad night, but the issues with Sackey and Mileek goes back years. If I am Goodnews or JO, I may question my place on the team as well.
The more I think about JO's comments about accountability from Lottich, the more I think its maybe directed at one player in particular.
For what it is worth, I believe one of JO's teammates at Sheb Luth is at Concordia- Wisc(Mequon). This whole transfer thing is a total joke. I think it has more to do with today's more immature teenagers, perhaps excessive egos, already "know it all" attitudes, lack of building mature interactions with fellow students and coaches, among a slew of other things that are causing this mass exodus of today's college players including frosh through senior years. In listening to the NCAA games it seems like EVERY team has at least one transfer getting significant minutes...and these players come from a variety of schools both large and small.
The situation is very depressing and I feel sorry for the coaches going through this thing. Let's not think that this transfer thing is so unique to Valpo...it is happening at all levels of competition and conferences, big schools and small and happens every year with many schools, from the MVC to the Power 5 conferences. Lets hope we end up with some good kids coming in when the dust settles.
Did the transfer rule ever get changed? The 1080+ and growing number of transfers obviously think they are going to be able to play right away. The grad transfers will - which is why Mileek leaving makes sense. Go try something completely different. With the extra year for seniors next year, many schools may opt not to pick up transfers and expand their rosters purely from a financial perspective. Most mid and low majors are struggling financially.
I also think some of these kids (JO especially) don't realize that smaller universities are doing the best they can. But resources are slim. I heard (complete hearsay) that Valpo has no extra athletic funds right now. Covid testing has hurt many programs The players want MORE but the school doesn't have more to give them. I am sure they would if they could.
Quote from: bb33 on March 31, 2021, 01:14:23 PMDid the transfer rule ever get changed? The 1080+ and growing number of transfers obviously think they are going to be able to play right away. The grad transfers will - which is why Mileek leaving makes sense. Go try something completely different. With the extra year for seniors next year, many schools may opt not to pick up transfers and expand their rosters purely from a financial perspective. Most mid and low majors are struggling financially. I also think some of these kids (JO especially) don't realize that smaller universities are doing the best they can. But resources are slim. I heard (complete hearsay) that Valpo has no extra athletic funds right now. Covid testing has hurt many programs The players want MORE but the school doesn't have more to give them. I am sure they would if they could.
Assuming a good number of the Seniors take the extra year, you are going to have ~20-25% more players than a typical year. That means less opportunity, less spots, more competition. If you were on a team and had a good amount of playing time/positive outlook for the next year on the team, I would think long and hard before entering the transfer market. JO is a perfect example. He would likely get a good 20+ mins a game next year at Valpo. He's got skills, but any lateral/step up moves comes with it the risk that he will be fighting for his place on a team vs having it already somewhat secured.
Quote from: vuny98 on March 31, 2021, 12:29:37 PM
The more I think about JO's comments about accountability from Lottich, the more I think its maybe directed at one player in particular.
I remember someone in an interview with Matt noting that he assumed Valpo hadn't experienced the same level of COVID issues that teams in larger areas with higher COVID rates were experiencing. Matt said yeah you would think that, but it turned out not to be the case. I would bet money there were "local" players (Mileek and Nick are top of mind) who didn't stay away from family/friends when they should have and had to quarantine for extended periods. Also, what was up with Ben being quarantined on multiple occasions? Did he go home when he should have stayed here? I don't remember fellow Canadian Daniel having any problems. Something never did compute with that whole never ending COVID MIA issue.
Ben goes over his quarantining procedure in one of the Paul's podcast episodes.
There were several for travel but it sounds like exposure was also an issue.
I've heard that most of the team and coaching staff have had it at some point.
I do know that there have been high tensions across campuses because of frustrations at those who don't take precautions as seriously as well as difficulty balancing how much leniency may be required due to extra issues and stress around the pandemic. It wouldn't be shocking if those played out in a smaller scale within the locker room. COVID is one reason why i'm reserving judgement on everything until we see how next year goes but while it's easy to act like it's all the kids being able to jump ship the reality is we still have a high amount of players transferring with clear signs pointing towards perhaps inconsistency in applying accountability and that is on the coaching staff. Not saying they're responsible for every single transfer(my guess is Mileek and Clay were probably always out) but maybe there were one or two that would have been willing to stay if they felt more confidence in the staff or there wasn't added turbulence in the locker room on top of the added turbulence of the year.
Quote from: crusader05 on March 31, 2021, 01:42:19 PMBen goes over his quarantining procedure in one of the Paul's podcast episodes.
I wrote to Mark L and asked about why volleyball players wear masks and basketball players don't.
Here is what he said:
The masks have to do with the NCAA testing recommendations. Both men's and women's basketball are classified as high risk for COVID due to the proximity of the players from opposing teams during games. The high risks sports are required to be COVID tested 3 times a week.
Volleyball is also considered a high risk sport, unless they wear face coverings. Then they are considered a moderate risk sport. This is because the teams stay on their own sides of the net and the interaction between players of opposing teams is significantly less than basketball. Moderate risk sports are COVID tested once a week.
So three times a week is a lot of testing and if one tests positive they all have to quarantine. I don't think Ben ever had it.
The sky is falling at Loyola! There are up to two! Baylor Hebb (a 3*) is in the portal!
Quote from: vu72 on March 31, 2021, 03:40:59 PM
The sky is falling at Loyola! There are up to two! Baylor Hebb (a 3*) is in the portal!
I think at one point Valpo might have recruited this young man.
Upon further review, per Rivals he was rated 3 star PG. Valpo is shown as one of many schools who recruited him.
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
Quote from: vu72 on March 31, 2021, 03:40:59 PM
The sky is falling at Loyola! There are up to two! Baylor Hebb (a 3*) is in the portal!
Add a third: Franklin Agunanne, a 3+ star junior out of LaLumiere
Quote from: vufan75 on March 31, 2021, 03:47:15 PM
Quote from: vu72 on March 31, 2021, 03:40:59 PM
The sky is falling at Loyola! There are up to two! Baylor Hebb (a 3*) is in the portal!
I think at one point Valpo might have recruited this young man.
Upon further review, per Rivals he was rated 3 star PG. Valpo is shown as one of many schools who recruited him.
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
Well, now another is in the portal. 6'9" 245# PF, Franklin Agunanne. ESPN had him a 4 Star! Probably means some of their bigs are coming back so limited playing time.
Wow! Time to get rid of Moser...can't keep players! And he needs them because of the seniors on this year's team(unless they stay another year).
The grass is always greener on the other side.
I don't mind if all of our players transfer like Loyola......
Can we win like Loyola too???
If they all transfer to Loyola, Loyola could win like Valpo?
when we make two sweet 16s in three tournaments like Loyola has then maybe these snarky comments might have some basis but right now if you're trying to deflect from Valpo's problem by saying "Loyola must have serious problems too because their bench players are transferring," it's not a good look and comes off as pretty ignorant. Might it hurt them in the short run? Maybe. But let's not compare losing Kaifes Hebb or Agunanne at Loyola to losing JFL Clay or Ognacevic for us. The two situations aren't remotely comparable.
I think Loyola given their recent successes in the dance will attract a higher level of transfers in than we will. I expect they will be able to replace their transfers out with equal or better players than they lost. I think we can replace all but two of our transfers out with equal or better players. Finding equal or better players than Clay and JO will be far more difficult, and may determine how successful a season we have next year.
"Coach didn't say hi to me this morning so I'm putting my name in the transfer portal. Don't need his permission, and I don't have to sit a year to play. What's to lose? I'll show him."
Just out of curiosity (and it's cold outside this morning), I decided to see the distribution of the transfers among class levels.
Freshman: 154
RS Freshman: 55
Sophomore: 196
RS Sophomore: 65
Junior: 194
RS Junior: 140
Senior: 217
RS Senior: 103
I would have predicted more juniors than other classes, but overall, I would have expected that he weight would have been greater to upperclassmen. I would guess that the percentage of younger students transfering has changed over the last few years.
'1314 - No one is claiming that Valpo is as successful as Loyola at present. We're simply poking fun at a handful of posters and their premature claims that Loyola players are far more loyal to their "winning" cause and their "amazing" coach.
I did see that Loyola has picked up two from the portal... one from Princeton and one from Dartmouth... must be something about the "Ivy" and being close to Wrigley.... Happy Opening Day comment.
Quote from: wh on April 01, 2021, 09:37:27 AM
'1314 - No one is claiming that Valpo is as successful as Loyola at present. We're simply poking fun at a handful of posters and their premature claims that Loyola players are far more loyal to their "winning" cause and their "amazing" coach.
Have Loyola players not shown more loyalty to their program/coach than Valpo's over the past few years or am I missing something?
Could it be that Loyola underclassmen entering the transfer portal means they see limited playing time because two seniors will elect to stay for another year?
Illinois State just lost DJ Horne to the transfer portal. They weren't very good with him. He averaged 15.1 ppg and shot 42% from the 3. That's five for Il St and 31 for the conference. He scored 19 and 20 against us.
Drake's Joseph Yesufu has just put his name in transfer portal
Thanks for your understanding, wh. We are on the same page. I guess some will never understand.
Quote from: RS on April 01, 2021, 04:39:31 PMDrake's Joseph Yesufu has just put his name in transfer portal
That's a crushing loss. So much for everyone on Drake running it back.
What a monster the NCAA has created with the new transfer rules. Ridiculous.
Definitely a monster Just Sayin. Perhaps they think another school like Gonzaga will take them in ( like Aaron Cook from S. Illinois at Gonzaga ) and have a chance to win a national championship.
Quote from: valpo64 on April 01, 2021, 04:53:44 PM
Thanks for your understanding, wh. We are on the same page. I guess some will never understand.
Help us.
Yesufu got hot after Penn went down, and definitely played himself onto some team's radars.
1,170+ names now listed in transfer portal. Yeehaw!
Per NCAA
(https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/MBB-LineChart-REP-Feb2021.jpg)
Roy Williams has indicated that part of his retirement decision is because of the transfer epidemic. Now with Porter Moser "transferring" to Oklahoma, we see that it works both ways. Porter could have gone the Mark Few way and been happy to have respect in building and maintaining a solid mid-major program while being king of the campus. However, the allure of even bigger money and power has proven to be too much once again.
Everyone chases after the money. Even people we worship.
Loyola offered a contract starting at 2.2 million per year and increasing, paired with other incentives such as season tickets to Cubs games. Maybe he just wanted to coach at the power 5 level. Whether it is more of a challenge, a career goal, a better chance to win a title. There are a million reasons someone might want to take a job as head coach of power 5 over in the MVC, and only one of those can be money.
Moser knows that what happened to Bradley this year after representing the MVC in the tournament the 2 prior years could well happen to Loyola next year. He'll never be more marketable than he is right now.
He deserves a lot of credit for giving the MVC a big boost following the loss of Creighton and Wichita State. I wish him the best as he continues on life's journey.
Interesting, I didn't know that Loyola's Baylor Hebb is from my HS. Good to see him transfer away from a rival :)
https://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/valparaiso-university/does-valparaiso-have-a-transfer-problem-or-is-it-simply-catching-up-with-the-times/article_d9d5137d-d942-5dc8-a7b7-7982d7a6683b.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1
Quote from: Pgmado on April 03, 2021, 10:33:13 AM
https://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/valparaiso-university/does-valparaiso-have-a-transfer-problem-or-is-it-simply-catching-up-with-the-times/article_d9d5137d-d942-5dc8-a7b7-7982d7a6683b.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1
Wow! What a great article! It covers so many aspects of transfers and includes effective interview with several people so close to the issue (and close to Valpo).
I find the comment at the end by Lexus Williams to be very insightful...that his generation does not stay with a company/organization/etc. for very long. What I believe is that many who jump around (from team-to-team, company-to-company, etc.,) miss how much personal value that they develop within the organization that is not transferrable to other organizations. Few people (players, etc.) have so much talent that it overrides the challenges from starting over in developing relationships, organizational knowledge, tacit knowledge, etc. As the article points out, some transfers turn out well for the player - but my guess is that a majority do not.
One piece of context for recent generations is that many of them may have seen parents lose jobs during the recession. There's a lot of talk about loyalty to a company but the reality is many people don't believe their company will be loyal to Them. It's not just that the kids have changed it's that in many ways the work environment has too. And it extends to colleges as well.
That was a terrific article that shed great light on the issue. I now see it as less of a Lottich issue than I did previously. I do wonder what programs like Purdue that have had comparatively fewer transfers are doing that other programs aren't and how we can possibly emulate that in order to keep our talent here so that we can build.
Yes, the transfer portal can be extremely frustrating for teams and fans, but it's also important for players rights. Not every player is going to be in the right situation and the portal offers a way for them to get a fresh start. Every other student can transfer without a penalty and it's important that athletes have this right as well. Again, there is definitely an element of frustration for program building, but it's also important to remember that it serves a very important purpose for players especially since they aren't compensated. Will be interesting to see how potential name, image, and likeness compensation opportunities impact the portal.(Also, workplace mobility is common for millennial and zoomer generations. We were even taught in school that more than likely we are going to have several employers. Mobility is a factor of the free market as securing talent is a driving factor in competitive balance. That's just the modern world)
Good points all-around. Nice to see how Capobianco & Lexus reflect on their time and transfer reasoning, and they are definitely correct that this youngest generation views 2 years at one company as an 'eternity.' As someone whose primary function is hiring talent at my company, this youngest generation just confuses the hell out of me lol. I have been with my company for 10+ years now, and you can create long-term wealth when you are loyal to a company, and that company returns that loyalty to you. Granted, they have good points that a company can just lay you off if there is a change in technology/business strategy, so why have the same loyalty to that company? I've had many former SiriusXM + Pandora employees reach back out to me after leaving, to mention what a mistake it was to leave, but it is very rare that a company will rehire you, if you leave after only 1-3 years. I'd be interested to see if there are any schools where someone leaves, and eventually finds their way back. It seemed like a few transfers this year, were considering their original school. I believe 1 was for Northern Kentucky.
In the end, why recruit the HS kids, except to get on their radar for a future transfer into your program?
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 03, 2021, 03:13:05 PM
That was a terrific article that shed great light on the issue. I now see it as less of a Lottich issue than I did previously. I do wonder what programs like Purdue that have had comparatively fewer transfers are doing that other programs aren't and how we can possibly emulate that in order to keep our talent here so that we can build.
I appreciate the article within its perspective and the thesis in its title: "Does Valparaiso Have a Transfer Problem, or Is It Simply Catching Up with the Times?" However, it is not an either/or proposition; it is more complicated. The stats are discussed well, and they could suggest Valpo is caught up in a transition like other universities that have similar numbers of transfers. That is an easy answer. However, it is possible that the complexity of the issue is that along with the changing times, Valpo also has a problem. For instance, some of the transfers are likely because of conflicts players had with coaching personalities or tactics. Certainly, the article indicates that was likely the case with Robinson and JO since they were outspoken, though neither is quoted in the article, plus other past players are suspected of leaving for similar reasons even if they did not publicly state so and may have said the right things when leaving. You can supply possible names from conversations on this forum at the time. I applaud Kampe for being so outspoken in the article, as he always has been in the past. However, he cannot address issues at Valpo. Moreover, Lottich's two instances of quotes in the article lack any substance or response to suggestions of conflict or other problems within the program. They are generic: "We're hitting what really appears to be a perfect storm...It's getting to the point where instead of the idea of building programs, you're building teams, and that's really unfortunate." "We are going to have to adapt...It's something that we'll have to embrace." These sound like so many of his non-specific comments in press conferences, especially following losses, and I say this as someone who is not anti-Lottich and was a supporter at the time of Lottich's hiring. I just want to hear better answers.
I think the expectation of anything other than non-specific comments coming from any coach is one which is going to go unfulfilled.
And if we want to look at this topic against an even broader backdrop, consider that approximately 1/3 of college students overall will transfer to another school before earning a degree. Many of us on this board are probably 4-year VU alums, but the reality is that changing schools is quite common, for a variety of reasons.
https://www.bestcolleges.com/blog/top-reasons-students-transfer-colleges/ (https://www.bestcolleges.com/blog/top-reasons-students-transfer-colleges/)
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 03, 2021, 03:13:05 PM
That was a terrific article that shed great light on the issue. I now see it as less of a Lottich issue than I did previously. I do wonder what programs like Purdue that have had comparatively fewer transfers are doing that other programs aren't and how we can possibly emulate that in order to keep our talent here so that we can build.
The simple answer IMO is culture and recruiting to it. Everyone knows what kind of guy fits in at Purdue and with few exceptions, those are the guys they get. Now that's a lot easier to do at a P5 because of obvious reasons, but that's essentially how they mostly avoid issues with transfers.
I saw that one-time Valpo recruit Xavier Castaneda, has committed to Akron, after transferring from USF. I wonder if we reached out to him again.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/stats/_/id/4396641/xavier-castaneda
Quote from: valpotx on April 05, 2021, 06:14:30 PMI saw that one-time Valpo recruit Xavier Castaneda, has committed to Akron, after transferring from USF. I wonder if we reached out to him again. https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/stats/_/id/4396641/xavier-castaneda
Didn't he have shooting issues last year? I have a feeling (I hope) Matt wants a PG who can shoot as well as distribute.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 05, 2021, 06:35:25 PM
Quote from: valpotx on April 05, 2021, 06:14:30 PMI saw that one-time Valpo recruit Xavier Castaneda, has committed to Akron, after transferring from USF. I wonder if we reached out to him again. https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/stats/_/id/4396641/xavier-castaneda
Didn't he have shooting issues last year? I have a feeling (I hope) Matt wants a PG who can shoot as well as distribute.
I would have taken his slash line of 36%/38%/88% any day of the week, from a PG.
Quote from: valpotx on April 06, 2021, 01:24:59 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 05, 2021, 06:35:25 PM
Quote from: valpotx on April 05, 2021, 06:14:30 PMI saw that one-time Valpo recruit Xavier Castaneda, has committed to Akron, after transferring from USF. I wonder if we reached out to him again. https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/stats/_/id/4396641/xavier-castaneda
Didn't he have shooting issues last year? I have a feeling (I hope) Matt wants a PG who can shoot as well as distribute.
I would have taken his slash line of 36%/38%/88% any day of the week, from a PG.
Compared to Sackey, certainly, and it's not awful, but still isn't ideal considering he shot more 2's than 3's and didn't get to the foul line all that much. He also shot 24% on shots at the rim, which is actually worse than Sackey (43%). Also had a 20% turnover rate which is barely better than Sackey's. Also not ideal is his defensive box plus minus which is near the worst on USF's team. Really his biggest upside is his 3 point shooting, which was 7-8 percentage points better than his previous 2 seasons, so at least in my mind there would be some question as to whether he could maintain that.
There are certainly worse guys to take a chance on, just playing devil's advocate and pointing out where there may be some concerns.
Guards Pre Lottich
Ben Boggs
Jay Harris
Matt Kenney
Eric Buggs
Will Bogan
Keith Carter
E. Victor
Lexus Williams - transferred
Tevon Walker
Guards Lottich Era
Micah Bradford - transferred
Bakari Evelyn - transferred
Marcus Golder - transferred
Joe Burton - Kicked out
Deion Lavender
Daniel Sackey - transferred
Eron Gordon
Nick Robinson - transferred
Javon Liberty-Freeman - transferred
Sheldon Edwards
Zion Morgan
Liam Robbins is back in the transfer portal. Back to Drake?? Crazy stuff.
Quote from: oklahomamick on April 06, 2021, 09:05:03 AM
Guards Pre Lottich
Ben Boggs (transferred in)
Jay Harris (Transferred out)
Matt Kenney
Eric Buggs
Will Bogan (transferred in)
Keith Carter (transferred in)
E. Victor (transferred in)
Lexus Williams - transferred
Tevonn Walker
Darien Walker
Guards Lottich Era
Micah Bradford - transferred
Bakari Evelyn - transferred (after transferring in)
Marcus Golder - transferred (after transferring in)
Joe Burton - Kicked out (after transferring in)
Deion Lavender (transferred in)
Daniel Sackey - transferred
Eron Gordon (transferred in)
Nick Robinson - transferred (after transferring in)
Javon Liberty-Freeman - transferred 2x
Sheldon Edwards
Zion Morgan (transferred in)
Added some other information relating to the players. Not sure what the point was or how to react to this information other than "guards are fungible and highly transitory." Also, wasn't there a Darien Walker, pre-Lottich who stayed all 4. And how far back "pre"? For example, was David
should we count JFL as transferring 2x if he entered and then pulled his name out again?
Quote from: oklahomamick on April 06, 2021, 09:05:03 AMGuards Pre Lottich Ben Boggs Jay Harris Matt Kenney Eric Buggs Will Bogan Keith Carter E. Victor Lexus Williams - transferred Tevon Walker Guards Lottich Era Micah Bradford - transferred Bakari Evelyn - transferred Marcus Golder - transferred Joe Burton - Kicked out Deion Lavender Daniel Sackey - transferred Eron Gordon Nick Robinson - transferred Javon Liberty-Freeman - transferred Sheldon Edwards Zion Morgan
Any look at transfer history has to allow for the change in the rules. I think a look at a lot of programs over the last 4 years would show a higher and probably much higher rate of transfer than for any time prior.
I think the pre Lottich area of guards were 10x better players than the current Lottich guards.
It was meant for a comparison of talent, not transferring.
Quote from: oklahomamick on April 06, 2021, 09:05:03 AM
Guards Pre Lottich
Ben Boggs
Jay Harris
Matt Kenney
Eric Buggs
Will Bogan
Keith Carter
E. Victor
Lexus Williams - transferred
Tevon Walker
Guards Lottich Era
Micah Bradford - transferred
Bakari Evelyn - transferred
Marcus Golder - transferred
Joe Burton - Kicked out
Deion Lavender
Daniel Sackey - transferred
Eron Gordon
Nick Robinson - transferred
Javon Liberty-Freeman - transferred
Sheldon Edwards
Zion Morgan
Micah Bradford committed to Valpo (LOI) in Nov. 2015. Bryce left for Vanderbilt in April 2016. Bradford was a Bryce Drew recruit, not a Matt Lottich recruit.
I could switch it and the guard talent still heavily favors prior coaching regime.
The point guard is important and I think a lot of ML troubles are because he hasn't had enough talent at point guard.
Quote from: oklahomamick on April 06, 2021, 03:42:39 PM
I could switch it and the guard talent still heavily favors prior coaching regime.
The point guard is important and I think a lot of ML troubles are because he hasn't had enough talent at point guard.
Don't be too quick to blow off the Micah Bradford recruiting failure. Bryce was very high on 3-star Micah. Matt tried everything to make Bryce's prize recruit work, including switching him from 1 to 2 and back again, but 3 years and 2 pot busts later he was gone. That was probably Bryce's biggest recruiting failure and Matt, not Bryce, paid the price for it.
Quote from: wh on April 06, 2021, 04:59:25 PMDon't be too quick to blow off the Micah Bradford recruiting failure. Bryce was very high on 3-star Micah. Matt tried everything to make Bryce's prize recruit work, including switching him from 1 to 2 and back again, but 3 years and 2 pot busts later he was gone. That was probably Bryce's biggest recruiting failure and Matt, not Bryce, paid the price for it.
Come on man! You've clearly remembered his pot busts but spaced off his injury. :crazy: He finished that one season impressively and might have developed just like Bryce had envisioned. To be fair to both Micah and Bryce you have to remember the whole story.
Quote from: justducky on April 06, 2021, 05:24:07 PM
Quote from: wh on April 06, 2021, 04:59:25 PMDon't be too quick to blow off the Micah Bradford recruiting failure. Bryce was very high on 3-star Micah. Matt tried everything to make Bryce's prize recruit work, including switching him from 1 to 2 and back again, but 3 years and 2 pot busts later he was gone. That was probably Bryce's biggest recruiting failure and Matt, not Bryce, paid the price for it.
Come on man! You've clearly remembered his pot busts but spaced off his injury. :crazy: He finished that one season impressively and might have developed just like Bryce had envisioned. To be fair to both Micah and Bryce you have to remember the whole story.
Here's Bradford's career stats. Maybe someone can make sense of what you're saying. I can't. He played 2 years at Valpo before his injury year. He then played a season at Southern followed by another full year lost by injury. Also, bear in mind the difference in competition between 31st ranked SWAC and 11th ranked MVC.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/4067452/micah-bradford
I recall Bradford playing well at the end of a season after returning to his pg position. Overall I'd rank him in the bust category for whichever coach you want to put him with. Would he have been a bust had Drew been in charge of his development and not Matt? Who knows.
I remember he made a few good passes to Sorolla at the end of the season and that was it. Maybe 10 passes and everyone thought he was improving.
You can't say he wasn't given the opportunity to shine. He just didn't.
He might have been our best February player on an admittedly bad team. If you want to go to the trouble to dig up those stats and prove me wrong then have at it. I haven't been proved wrong today yet but there is still time. :o
What I clearly remember is that his play was never the same post injury (even with what I saw of his SWAC play); so I gave him the benefit of the doubt just like I handed Tommy Kurth. Either way the injury was of much greater playing significance than the pot use and wh seemed to forget that it even happened.
I think he was a bust. But put him on Bryce's plate and Bryce's guards are still way better than what ML has been recruiting.
The point is that guard play is important and that's where we have been lacking ever since ML has taken over.
Bradford had demonstrated over the last month of that season, that he is a better distributor, than a shooter. I had high hopes that he would be a decent PG the following season.
Quote from: vu72 on April 06, 2021, 10:54:00 AM
Liam Robbins is back in the transfer portal. Back to Drake?? Crazy stuff.
With Depaul's coaching change, they have 9 players in the transfer portal. How do you think JFL feels? lol
Quote from: valpotx on April 07, 2021, 12:58:26 AM
With Depaul's coaching change, they have 9 players in the transfer portal. How do you think JFL feels? lol
At least he's close to home for emotional support. ;)
Is JFL among them?
Wow! Yesufu formerly of Drake lands at Kansas!
So yes, we lost JFL and Donovan to the transfer portal but even a highly regarded coach like Drakes lost Robbins and Yesufu. Stuff happens...
Good for Yesufu. He would not have been able to land at Kansas, if it weren't for the increased shot load that he received, after Roman Penn went down.
Very interesting. Indiana State just received 3 transfers from D2 Lincoln Memorial, in Simon Wilbar, Cameron Henry, and Xavier Bledson.
I said this before but I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of transfers left with nothing as people grab one and done SR D2s or underecruited HS Seniors to take up some of their slots
Quote from: crusader05 on April 07, 2021, 03:50:04 PM
I said this before but I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of transfers left with nothing as people grab one and done SR D2s or underecruited HS Seniors to take up some of their slots
Someone referred to this as a game of musical chairs...which seems like an apt analogy.
Are there going to be enough open spots for all these transfers? Or enough minutes to even get a chance to play?
Seems like it's easy to transfer but also very risky as you could be putting yourself in a situation to be the odd man out.
I am sure every year there are people who don't get spots b/c they don't want to transfer down or people pull in international players/un-recruited HS or pull up D2 players to fill slots. This year I think there's also the issue of the extra year without a scholarship cap increase which is just going to add an extra layer of chaos and the unknown. You're going to want to keep your classes balanced and there are the 2022 recruits out there that teams have been cultivating relationships with that they want to make sure they have space for next year.
between all of this plus just the large amount of transfers it really will be a chaotic mess and I think you're seeing it in how few announcements about new commitments that have been made so far.
Coaches will probably recruit fewer high school players and focus their recruiting efforts on the portal since building a program from the bottom up and keeping young players will prove to be fruitless given their likelihood of transferring. Recruit experience in the portal.
Quote from: valpotx on April 07, 2021, 03:47:03 PM
Very interesting. Indiana State just received 3 transfers from D2 Lincoln Memorial, in Simon Wilbar, Cameron Henry, and Xavier Bledson.
Coach taking players with him.
Seems to me coaches will need to manage your team like you manage your portfolio, with a balanced blend. You have a percentage you recruit from HS hoping they are high performers (which a portion may get sold - traded - if they perform beyond expectation -- this number is also probably lower now then in previous times), and an increased percentage from the transfer portal, who have already used up their one year transfer. These guys can be a mix of young and experienced. Also looking at developed D2D3 athletes who became quality players in college and come with experience, and who know how to win. There will be fewer projects. This is going to make it hard for recruits because why take a chance on an unknown freshman when you can get an experienced sophomore who already has college experience and shows promise. You also have a history of how well they are doing academically.
The ARC and other facilities does hold us back. Which means we need more. The school also needs to do more. When Illinois hired their new AD they understood that better sports equates to increased applications, . Sports is one of the best marketing tools for a university. That's what so many invest in them. It can put you on the map so people can see all the other amazing pieces to the university.
I know it will never be done, but a D1 school that signs a transfer from another D1 school should have to add that school to their schedule within 2 years or have to pay a "transfer fee" of $100,000 (cost of 2 years scholarship at most colleges).
Wait so if someone decided to say Leave Purdue and transfer to Valpo WE should have to pay Purdue?
Quote from: crusader05 on April 08, 2021, 09:40:29 AM
Wait so if someone decided to say Leave Purdue and transfer to Valpo WE should have to pay Purdue?
According to the idea, we'd have to be willing to schedule Purdue in order to avoid paying them money.
okay and if say Purdue refused to schedule us than nothing happens?
Quote from: bb33 on April 08, 2021, 09:07:16 AMThe ARC and other facilities does hold us back.
I think this is way overblown. 18 and 19 year kids don't wonder what it would be like is the fans had softer seats or more urinals. They want good food and air-conditioning for practice--plus coaches they can relate to and care about them. Our practice facility is first class and we have also added improved nutrition. Does anybody really think that if the ARC had more of a bowl setting and better concessions that any of the guys who transferred would still be on the team? Likewise, why would anybody coming from a Power 5 conference ever transfer to Valpo if it had anything to do with the ARC? I discussed this once with Brandon Wood and he confirmed that facilities have little to do with their individual decisions.
Quote from: vu72 on April 08, 2021, 10:31:11 AMQuote from: bb33 on April 08, 2021, 09:07:16 AMThe ARC and other facilities does hold us back.
I think this is way overblown. 18 and 19 year kids don't wonder what it would be like is the fans had softer seats or more urinals. They want good food and air-conditioning for practice--plus coaches they can relate to and care about them. Our practice facility is first class and we have also added improved nutrition. Does anybody really think that if the ARC had more of a bowl setting and better concessions that any of the guys who transferred would still be on the team? Likewise, why would anybody coming from a Power 5 conference ever transfer to Valpo if it had anything to do with the ARC? I discussed this once with Brandon Wood and he confirmed that facilities have little to do with their individual decisions.
I 100% think that the appearance of the arena they play in plays a factor in their decision. It may not be the #1 factor, but it certainly is in their mind. You don't think a football recruit comes to Valpo, looks at the field and says "This is D1??? My high school stadium was better than this..." Same for basketball. You walk in the ARC and you don't get that Wow factor. It looks like a nice high school gym. Now when its packed, its a great atmosphere don't get me wrong. But most recruits wont see that. It also shows some level of the commitment the university has towards the program.
Also, I don't think our practice facility is first class. I think it is acceptable and the updates made were to keep it from becoming unacceptable.
As for a Power 5 transfer coming to Valpo. Those are guys typically that just want to play. The facilities are further down on their decision list. but an 18 year old 3 star high school senior that is getting looks from high mid majors will look at Valpo vs some of our peers and yes, the glitz and glamour of some vs the ARC will play a role in that decision.
I've said it before. The ARC doesn't need to be gutted completely, just like the practice facility, make it so its acceptable vs unacceptable. Turn the lower level into a bowl and chair backs throughout. It wouldn't be that expensive.
College basketball coaches furious with 'wild west' transfer portal
https://nypost.com/2021/04/03/college-basketball-coaches-furious-with-wild-west-transfer-portal/
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1380211283715325955
https://twitter.com/Evan_Flood/status/1380207449983057920
Interesting. Good for him in getting a 6th year to play more minutes, akin to what he did at GB in his FR season of 2016-2017. He is familiar with our program/past, and though he had a bad game against us, seems to be pretty solid. He must have been injured for the second game.
http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/boxscore/2016-17/5941/green-bay-vs-valpo-01-16-2017/
http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/boxscore/2016-17/5946/valpo-vs-green-bay-02-04-2017/
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/stats/_/id/4067425/trevor-anderson
Look at Peters numbers for that game. Wow.
Plus our largest lead was 32.
On the video on Trevor Anderson...
-He seems like a nice transfer for Valpo to get.
-It would be really nice if his teammate (#10) decided to join him at Valpo (one can dream).
-The Stevens Point fans look pretty hohum cheering on a team with three future major conference D1 players.
wh to Trevor: We need a guard who can score the basketball. You shot over 50% from both 2 and 3 last year but didn't shoot that much. You were born to score. Shoot the freaking ball!! We will win a lot of games, the fans will embrace you, and you will use Valpo's great European connections to go on to the next level. Welcome and best of luck!
This is good transfer news. He's a solid player who should do well at the MVC level. Better yet he probably only has one more year of eligibility so there's no risk of losing him. Maybe this is how we're going to have to play the transfer game from now on. He should definitely be an upgrade over our point guards last year.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 08, 2021, 04:24:52 PM
This is good transfer news. He's a solid player who should do well at the MVC level. Better yet he probably only has one more year of eligibility so there's no risk of losing him. Maybe this is how we're going to have to play the transfer game from now on. He should definitely be an upgrade over our point guards last year.
247 had him a three star #5 point guard in Wisconsin coming out of high school. He is from the same high school as Leah Ernest. I presume the thinking is for him to help teach the freshman about college ball so they are ready for the transfer portal. :(
Good get.
Would like to see a PF/C, as we are thin at that position. No room for injury/sickness.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: covufan on April 08, 2021, 05:33:43 PM
Good get.
Would like to see a PF/C, as we are thin at that position. No room for injury/sickness.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Screw that! Let's concentrate on 3-pt shooters, and bring back the Bo Kimble Loyola Marymount days!
Quote from: vu72 on April 08, 2021, 04:39:09 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 08, 2021, 04:24:52 PM
This is good transfer news. He's a solid player who should do well at the MVC level. Better yet he probably only has one more year of eligibility so there's no risk of losing him. Maybe this is how we're going to have to play the transfer game from now on. He should definitely be an upgrade over our point guards last year.
247 had him a three star #5 point guard in Wisconsin coming out of high school. He is from the same high school as Leah Ernest. I presume the thinking is for him to help teach the freshman about college ball so they are ready for the transfer portal. :(
I could be thinking of someone else, but wasn't he a Mr. Basketball or some equivalent? I remember everyone thinking he was a great pick up for GB.
Edit: Never mind, I just answered my own question. According to Wikipedia he was Co-Mr. Basketball in 2016 with teammate Sam Hauser.
Yes a good transfer who can shoot the 3 ball. With how things went in the tournament the importance of 3 point shooting was a key to many victories. Yes we still need a power forward / center. we had one that could shoot lights out from 3. With 3 Wisconsin natives now on the roster does anyone think JO will change his mind. He certainly would have a major role in the team.
Would love to see JO back just like the Indiana players who returned after entering the transfer portal. That sure would make for a fun season next year.
Quote from: covufan on April 08, 2021, 05:33:43 PM
Good get.
Would like to see a PF/C, as we are thin at that position. No room for injury/sickness.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
There are over 300 guys 6-8 or taller in the portal. Let's hope we can find one guy with size.
If nothing else, the makeover on the team this year keeps things fresh for the public address announcer. Hope he doesn't slip up. Hah! Since we are a Wisconsin heavy roster do we need to change the school name in addition to the mascot?
Quote from: valpo64 on April 08, 2021, 08:57:57 PM
Would love to see JO back just like the Indiana players who returned after entering the transfer portal. That sure would make for a fun season next year.
Never say never, but doesn't sound likely. There seems to be some bitterness surrounding the transfer from JOs side.
I wonder what Lottich did to screw that up. JO felt like a Valpo recruit through and through.
It would be great to have JO back, though very unlikely, if for nothing else than to annoy the crap out of our conference mates, as they hate it when Todd says 'Sheboygan Sharpshooter.'
Maybe Scott Drew/Jared Nuness or Roger Powell can put in a good word for us with these recent transfer portal big men? :)
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/stats/_/id/4277885/tristan-clark
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/stats/_/id/4431731/pavel-zakharov
Tristan was 3.7 star, while Pavel was a 4 star.
05, I was throwing out something that came to me (I'm an idea guy -- tuna, mayo in some container) and clearly thinking more about players moving up, but you're and humble's comments and condition does balance it out -- if the other school refuses the invite for the game, or makes it impossible to schedule, then the "transfer fee" is waived. The idea was to compensate the mid-majors for the development work and to improve scheduling for those schools, but it would work the other way. The big schools can also just say thanks for the player and here's your check (somewhat like a waiver wire claim in MLB or when MLB teams sign Japanese baseball league players). Also, if we're going to cover more situations, then grad transfers would be exempt from the "transfer fee."
BTW, academic research article on transfers my son sent to me yesterday -- http://csri-jiia.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/RA_2021_09.pdf (http://csri-jiia.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/RA_2021_09.pdf)
We are at 13 scholarships for next year now. Are we done or do we get two extra from Zion and Eron staying on board? And if we do have 2 extra, is that something we think the team is planning to use?
Good question about whether we are done. Considering the state of VU's athletic fund i would find it difficult to have the extra scholarships made available. Has there actually been any word on whether Zion is staying for another year. With 3 new point guards coming into the program would there be a need to have four although Zion could definitely play the 2 or 3 spot.
we have 2 scholarships still available since Zion and Eron wouldn't count against the cap.
My guess is we use at least one more. The overall cost of 2 extra scholarships for a year isn't going to be a big deal. I don't think we should just use them to use them but if we could get a big man with size or if we someone changes their mind in the transfer portal we should use them.
Quote from: crusader05 on April 09, 2021, 09:29:28 AM
we have 2 scholarships still available since Zion and Eron wouldn't count against the cap.
My guess is we use at least one more. The overall cost of 2 extra scholarships for a year isn't going to be a big deal. I don't think we should just use them to use them but if we could get a big man with size or if we someone changes their mind in the transfer portal we should use them.
PO specifically tweeted that Eron is returning, but I don't recall him doing that for Zion. Do we know for certain that he is returning? Maybe he just decided to get on with his life.
I don't think he's specifically said he was but it seems like all parties are acting like he will be here. one of the new transfer recruits indicated that he had long conversations with both Eron and Zion about being on next year's team and what they want to do it.
I think it is save to say that we have significantly upgraded the point position with the trade of Daniel, Steven and Sigurd for Anderson and Taylor plus we still have two draft picks! ;D
Quote from: IndyValpo on April 08, 2021, 09:34:26 PM
Quote from: covufan on April 08, 2021, 05:33:43 PM
Good get.
Would like to see a PF/C, as we are thin at that position. No room for injury/sickness.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
There are over 300 guys 6-8 or taller in the portal. Let's hope we can find one guy with size.
I also hope we can get a big through the portal. I'm really getting tired of getting out rebounded constantly. That said, does anyone have a feel for whether Emil could be a contributor next year? He only played like a minute in two games this year as he was hurt(sick?). Would he get a medical redshirt for this year? Would he even need one as I guess he gets an extra year regardless due to COVID? I just have no feel for whether he can be a contributor.
Quote from: nkvu on April 09, 2021, 11:29:48 AM
...does anyone have a feel for whether Emil could be a contributor next year? He only played like a minute in two games this year as he was hurt(sick?). Would he get a medical redshirt for this year? Would he even need one as I guess he gets an extra year regardless due to COVID? I just have no feel for whether he can be a contributor.
I don't know, but I hope so for his sake. He has been here for two years with little return. A lot of guys in his position would pull out at this point, and no one would blame them. Yet, apparently Emil is going to stay the course. No crying about favoritism or special treatment. No disparaging comments about the Valpo experience not being what it was portrayed to be. No accusations of intolerance or mistreatment by fellow students toward a foreign student with a significant language barrier. Apparently, he actually values a great education at an outstanding American university, all while working to develop his basketball skills and wait for his opportunity. IMO that demonstrates qualities that seem to be in short supply these days - respect for the process, loyalty, and a sense of gratitude. There is no one on this team that I will be pulling for more than Emil.
Quote from: AB on April 08, 2021, 09:55:24 PM
If nothing else, the makeover on the team this year keeps things fresh for the public address announcer. Hope he doesn't slip up. Hah! Since we are a Wisconsin heavy roster do we need to change the school name in addition to the mascot?
If you sit where we do, you wouldn't have to worry what John Bowker is saying, because you wouldn't be able to understand him because the PA system sucks (and has for years).
https://twitter.com/jakelieberman2/status/1380351766382829568?s=21
Quote from: wh on April 09, 2021, 01:36:19 PMI don't know, but I hope so for his sake. He has been here for two years with little return.
Well, he is an engineering student so while he has been waiting he is getting one of the best undergrad educations anywhere. Decent return on investment! I would think that is why he is still here. Probably doesn't have his sights set on a pro career and at the same time possibly will round into someone capable of playing significant minutes.
Quote from: VU2014 on April 09, 2021, 01:48:32 PM
https://twitter.com/jakelieberman2/status/1380351766382829568?s=21
A better example of selective statistical referencing, I have not seen lol. Yeah, averaged double figures, on really crappy shooting %...but still double figures. All kidding aside, I appreciate his 2 years, and hope that he is able to live up to his true potential somewhere else, wherever that might be. Go somewhere you can play, otherwise your shot won't improve.
His defense is definitely what a team should recruit him for. His offense, not so much.
MEN'S BASKETBALL
Valparaiso gets commitment from Wisconsin transfer Trevor Anderson
https://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/valparaiso-gets-commitment-from-wisconsin-transfer-trevor-anderson/article_46f54e52-6fa0-5b46-a7ca-99c70bc9fb29.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true
Have fun with this one guys
https://twitter.com/jeffborzello/status/1380651954112765959
Bring him on!! Transfers to a school in the same conference...I guess it's starting to get down and dirty in "The Valley".
Hopefully Valpo will exercise it's option to not let Clay play immediately next year. No need to roll over on this.
Quote from: jloose128 on April 09, 2021, 05:41:53 PM
Have fun with this one guys
https://twitter.com/jeffborzello/status/1380651954112765959
He's someone who used to play here, now he doesn't. He was given every opportunity to shine, but he didn't. We're not worse without him; Missouri State is no better with him. It has no more meaning than that to me.
Can't help but feel as though his decision screams, "screw you, Valpo/Lotttich."
Who cares? He's an offensive liability and will be at MoSt too. Get to guard them 5-4 on that end and let him shoot all day.
It is close to his home, this is not a total surprise. If he would have landed at SLU, that would have also not surprised me. Don't exercise any bar to him playing, as that just gives him an extra year to mature/improve, and come back at us with even more vengeance in mind. Let him play the next 2 seasons. This does not scare me in the least, and I think that we have improved with the transfers that we are gaining/losing.
Having one of our better players transfer in conference stings and doesn't feel like a good look for us especially in the eyes of our conference matess. For all of his warts he was still a key piece of this team and when he was right he put up dominant numbers. Maybe some of the recruits will make his loss sting less or even be irrelevant but let's also remember that they will be freshmen so we will be a "young team" again with all that that may entail.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 09, 2021, 09:44:53 PM
Having one of our better players transfer in conference stings and doesn't feel like a good look for us especially in the eyes of our conference matess. For all of his warts he was still a key piece of this team and when he was right he put up dominant numbers. Maybe some of the recruits will make his loss sting less or even be irrelevant but let's also remember that they will be freshmen so we will be a "young team" again with all that that may entail.
They aren't all going to be freshmen. Take a look at this Sheldon tweet anticipating next year's Valpo/MSU matchup. Then look at the reply by Trevor Anderson. It's apparent they know a bush league move by Clay and Ford when they see it, and don't like it. Hopefully, we can pack the ARC and teach a few people some manners.
https://mobile.twitter.com/sheldonnn13/status/1380665123904352256
Quote from: wh on April 09, 2021, 10:08:27 PMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on April 09, 2021, 09:44:53 PMHaving one of our better players transfer in conference stings and doesn't feel like a good look for us especially in the eyes of our conference matess. For all of his warts he was still a key piece of this team and when he was right he put up dominant numbers. Maybe some of the recruits will make his loss sting less or even be irrelevant but let's also remember that they will be freshmen so we will be a "young team" again with all that that may entail.
They aren't all going to be freshmen. Take a look at this Sheldon tweet anticipating next year's Valpo/MSU matchup. Then look at the reply by Trevor Anderson. It's apparent they know a bush league move by Clay and Ford when they see it, and don't like it. Hopefully, we can pack the ARC and teach a few people some manners. https://mobile.twitter.com/sheldonnn13/status/1380665123904352256
I like it! Some of these kids have fire! That's good! I hope they pay it off and light it up against the Bears. Having someone with inside knowledge of the offensive and defensive schemes on a conference opponent isn't the most comforting thought though. Hopefully Lottich is going to work during the offseason to add some new wrinkles we and they haven't seen before so that Clay's information is rendered dated and unhelpful.
It wouldn't surprise me if Clay is a big part of why JO said that people were not held accountable. No inside information here, but there were too many games where he just didn't seem to care or give 100%. When he showed up ready to play, even if he couldn't hit a shot, he was very valuable. Other times, it was like he just stood there and pouted.
That's not good coaching then. If what you are saying is true and not holding Clay accountable is what ended up costing us both Clay and JO when we didn't have to lose both then JO's transfer is completely on Lottich and that is a bad sign this many years into coaching for him. Hopefully he has it figured out and it won't be an issue going forward but it's sad that it cost us a recruit of JO's caliber for him to learn that lesson if what you are saying is true.
Should he have stopped playing Clay altogether? You can't force someone to care...
Quote from: valpotx on April 10, 2021, 02:16:27 AMShould he have stopped playing Clay altogether? You can't force someone to care...
No but he could have cut his minutes when he saw him disengaging to send the message that not even the core players can afford to slack off. If that was the takeaway Ognacevic received that certain players got treated with kid gloves and it cost us his services then the takeaway is that Lottich should have done more to hold players who were giving less effort accountable. Not taking away Clay's minutes entirely but to do enough to show that that won't be tolerated. Again I am operating from the assumption raised potentially by you that Lottich's inability to do this cost us both Clay and Ognacevic. If that's the case then it was a huge mistake that Matt needs to learn from and I hope he does.
If Clay is an engineering student, why transfer to Missouri State? Honestly, the quality of education is better at Valpo.
I know, he's 20, and does not have priorities straight.
Quote from: usc4valpo on April 10, 2021, 06:14:58 AM
If Clay is an engineering student, why transfer to Missouri State? Honestly, the quality of education is better at Valpo.
I know, he's 20, and does not have priorities straight.
And if he wants player development, Mo St seems to be an odd choice. The Bears seem to consistently underperform given their talent.
Quote from: valpotx on April 09, 2021, 07:38:59 PM
It is close to his home, this is not a total surprise. If he would have landed at SLU, that would have also not surprised me. Don't exercise any bar to him playing, as that just gives him an extra year to mature/improve, and come back at us with even more vengeance in mind. Let him play the next 2 seasons. This does not scare me in the least, and I think that we have improved with the transfers that we are gaining/losing.
Springfield is an hour closer to his home than Valpo, but it is still three and a half hours from Alton. SLU would have been close.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 09, 2021, 09:44:53 PMso we will be a "young team" again
Not really. If Zion comes backs we will have four five to six year Seniors plus Ben and Goodnews are Juniors and now Conner and Sheldon are Sophomores. That is not a "young" team!
Quote from: usc4valpo on April 10, 2021, 06:14:58 AM
If Clay is an engineering student, why transfer to Missouri State? Honestly, the quality of education is better at Valpo.
I know, he's 20, and does not have priorities straight.
Because he was a Sports Management Student not Engineering. Emil is the Engineering student.
If Clay had a "screw you, VU" attitude, that is his problem. It is time for some to realize that just because a player(s) leaves a program it is not always the coach's fault. If that were true there sure are alot of D-1 coaches that are lousy and don't deserve the job they have. I wonder if other boards, especially those in the MVC, are seeing the same comments as often expressed on this board proclaiming their coach should be gone because of the transfer epidemic. Granted there are exceptions (Cincinnati). Many of these kids, and I mean kids, need to grow up and realize they cannot have everything they want and when they want it and in some case perhaps they are not as good as they think they are.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 10, 2021, 03:02:24 AM
Quote from: valpotx on April 10, 2021, 02:16:27 AMShould he have stopped playing Clay altogether? You can't force someone to care...
No but he could have cut his minutes when he saw him disengaging to send the message that not even the core players can afford to slack off. If that was the takeaway Ognacevic received that certain players got treated with kid gloves and it cost us his services then the takeaway is that Lottich should have done more to hold players who were giving less effort accountable. Not taking away Clay's minutes entirely but to do enough to show that that won't be tolerated. Again I am operating from the assumption raised potentially by you that Lottich's inability to do this cost us both Clay and Ognacevic. If that's the case then it was a huge mistake that Matt needs to learn from and I hope he does.
I don't know whether to call this conjecture or confabulation, but you're making up facts and then debating people around them to make our coach look bad. We have no idea what JO was referring to with his irresponsible diatribe. All we know is JO's "truth," which may be far from THE truth.
I'm on the fence on whether Valpo should block Clay from playing immediately. His move to Missouri State seems like such a lateral move, not one that I would personally make. It seems to be the equivalent of switching to a competing employer for basically the same amount of pay, gonna make a lot of people mad and not bring much overall benefit in my opinion. I'm not that old but the younger generation baffles me.
The deciding factor for me on whether to block him from playing immediately would be what happened behind the scenes. If he was the one always whining and not being held accountable, then I say block him. If, however, it wasn't him and he had nothing to do with it, then I say let him play. My gut tells me he was a whiner but maybe I'm wrong. He seemed to have an off year and would simply go missing at times. His dad was always whining in his tweets too. Won't miss that.
I think he wanted bigger fish and they didn't come biting.
However, from strictly a basketball point, Missouri State is still slightly above Valpo and he still gets the familiarity of the MVC. MoSt has a $67m arena that just opened in 2008, spends $3.1m/yr on MBB (4th highest in MVC, vs 2.7m/yr by Valpo for 4th lowest), and average 4500-5100 attendance the last three seasons vs Valpos approx 2700.
Academically, I can't imagine MoSt is better but I didn't look that up. (Edited to reflect he is not an engineering student)
I'm not losing much sleep over him, but I am still disappointed in JO. Let him play. Valpo doesn't have anything to gain if they can force him to sit out, and it can be a PR nightmare if it becomes public that Valpo is not letting him play right away. (Several national writers hype these scenarios and the team usually ultimately backs down...and other coaches use it in negative recruiting). Does MVC have any criteria for interconference transfers? ML have already signed off on it?
Quote from: elephtheria47 on April 10, 2021, 10:17:14 AMAcademically, if he's an engineer student
He is not an engineering student. He was studying Sport Management at Valpo.
It is fun reading the Missouri State forum. They are in for a surprise, if they think that they have found their stretch 4. Clay has no desire to play in the post. They also seem to think that his low shooting % is due to not getting open looks from 3. Most of his looks from 3 were wide open, regardless of whether they were early or later in the shot clock. He did have a few contested 3's, just like anyone else, but the majority were wide open and just missed. They are correct, however, on gaining a stellar defender that can guard all 5 positions, as well as rebounder and distributor.
Clay was a good defensive player when he seemed to want to be. He was a poor offensive player as his shot not only didn't go in, but never looked like it was going in. He's just not a natural shooter. That cut down on his chances for acting as more of a slasher. His disappearing act during some games was nearly criminal although I don't know what the coach is supposed to do about it. You can't win without the guy the team is depending on whether he's on the court or he's on the bench.
I don't look at him as any great loss and I'm not sure why anyone would feel any sort of insult that he transferred in conference.
It looks like a decent amount of kids are selecting schools now. It will be an interesting next few weeks.
Quote from: wh on April 10, 2021, 09:26:52 AMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on April 10, 2021, 03:02:24 AMQuote from: valpotx on April 10, 2021, 02:16:27 AMShould he have stopped playing Clay altogether? You can't force someone to care...
No but he could have cut his minutes when he saw him disengaging to send the message that not even the core players can afford to slack off. If that was the takeaway Ognacevic received that certain players got treated with kid gloves and it cost us his services then the takeaway is that Lottich should have done more to hold players who were giving less effort accountable. Not taking away Clay's minutes entirely but to do enough to show that that won't be tolerated. Again I am operating from the assumption raised potentially by you that Lottich's inability to do this cost us both Clay and Ognacevic. If that's the case then it was a huge mistake that Matt needs to learn from and I hope he does.
I don't know whether to call this conjecture or confabulation, but you're making up facts and then debating people around them to make our coach look bad. We have no idea what JO was referring to with his irresponsible diatribe. All we know is JO's "truth," which may be far from THE truth.
At least be fair before you jump down my throat. I'm not the one who "made up facts" I only took the situation Valpotx described in an earlier post and then extrapolated that if that's what Ognacevic is talking about and that's what caused him to transfer then Lottich definitely mishandled and bungled that situation. That's not "trying to make the coach look bad" because I never once suggested that it is true. The key word I used was that IF it's true then that's not a good job of coaching by Lottich. I fail to see why that is a controversial statement. It might be untrue and I hope it is but if that is the reason we lost JO then Lottich deserves culpability there and could have (should have) done more. I get it. That's really easy for me to say because I don't coach and I'm not optimistic about this program's future under Lottich and I want nothing more than to eat every single one of these words but right now I am seeing precious little evidence that Matt Lottich will lead us to become anything more than a middling MVC team. I hope that's not what we're stuck with and that's not the best we're willing to be.
1315 was very clearly responding to a previous poster's hypothetical and addressing such along hypothetical lines. He was not asserting that any of what was discussed in his post or the post he was referring to had indeed happened.
Furthermore, no one needs to "make" our coach look bad. He very obviously looks bad all on his own. Arguably the program's second best player made a lateral transfer to a conference foe, in a rather apparent "F you" to the coach/school. This comes on the heels of another player who should have been one of our best players of the future having decided to transfer and on his way out being as publicly critical of his coaches as I can recall any D1 college athlete being....
Then there's the wider backdrop of the mens bball program having lost a total of seven players to transfer this offseason, which is high even amidst the current transfer climate, and having lost far more transfers over the past few years than any of our conference foes. It's also a safe bet someone would be hard-pressed to come up with more than a handful of other programs having lost as many players to transfer as Valpo has during Lottich's tenure -- a tenure which most notably of all though has been characterized by losing basketball games.
To suggest we have "no idea" what JO was referring to is silly. His "diatribe" may have been irresponsible behavior for a young man in his position, but it was specific.
It is also equally as likely that JO's "truth" accurately reflects the current atmosphere inside the Valpo mens bball program. And honestly, common sense would suggest there is some level of truth to what he had to say. Each and every one of us has wondered what has been "off" with this program these past few years. JO's comments provide a very plausible indication as to what this could be: unaccountability. To dismiss his comments completely as you appear to have done is being intentionally mindless.
WH, I understand it's your stated interest to keep the posts on this forum positive so potential recruits viewing the forum might not be turned off from joining the program. But the lengths to which you go to consistently turd polish each obviously negative thing which happens to the program are becoming a bit much.
I do appreciate your pertinacity.
Quote from: valpotx on April 09, 2021, 07:38:59 PMIt is close to his home, this is not a total surprise. If he would have landed at SLU, that would have also not surprised me. Don't exercise any bar to him playing, as that just gives him an extra year to mature/improve, and come back at us with even more vengeance in mind. Let him play the next 2 seasons. This does not scare me in the least, and I think that we have improved with the transfers that we are gaining/losing.
Let's do the math.
Alton, IL to Springfield, MO is 238 miles.
Alton, IL to Valpo is 308 miles.
Not all that huge of a difference.
Alton, IL to SLU is 24 miles
That is a huge difference.
Quote from: JBC1824 on April 10, 2021, 07:48:42 PMBut I do appreciate your pertinacity.
In case you are like me and had not heard this word "pertinacity" in a while here is the definition.
Pertinacity is a quality of sticking with something, no matter what. It's a type of persistent determination. People who have pertinacity won't give up, and they stick with things doggedly. Pursuing a difficult career requires pertinacity. Pertinacity is a mix of courage, conviction, and a little stubbornness.
When I think about what a couple of posters have speculated concerning Lottich's use of Clay and JO, I don't disagree with either nor do I offer an answer, but I do remember the Drake game that Valpo blew. The Crusaders (they still were) led at halftime 43-35 thanks to a great first half by JO. He scored 11 points (3 3-pointers) had two rebounds and a block in only 7 minutes of play. Oren noted JO was shouting for the ball with confidence. During the first half Clay had 0 points. Nevertheless, in the second half Clay played 17 minutes and scored only 6 points, while JO sat on the bench except for less than 3 minutes and never even got a single shot, plus he was not in the game during the 4-minute drought at the end of the game when Drake scored 11 straight points that caused the 80-77 loss against a #25 ranked team. I am not going to further speculation about what happened between Lottich and JO or Clay, but I will state unequivocally, as I did on the board then, that was the turning point in the season for me.
"WH" has hit the nail on the head. Some of us are getting tired of the constant negative comments regarding Coach Lottich. Whenever some negativity regarding our program arises it is always Coach's fault. Everyone's criticisms, including players, are correct in their respective assessments ...the critics are always right and the fault is always in the program and the Coach. Some appear to go to great lengths to find fault. It would be interesting to hear some of our posters to go on other school's boards and access their problems with a teams successes/failures, player movement, coaches performance, and who and where to place the blame for negative outcomes in the respective program. The glass is not always half empty.
Quote from: bbtds on April 10, 2021, 08:04:52 PM
Quote from: valpotx on April 09, 2021, 07:38:59 PMIt is close to his home, this is not a total surprise. If he would have landed at SLU, that would have also not surprised me. Don't exercise any bar to him playing, as that just gives him an extra year to mature/improve, and come back at us with even more vengeance in mind. Let him play the next 2 seasons. This does not scare me in the least, and I think that we have improved with the transfers that we are gaining/losing.
Let's do the math.
Alton, IL to Springfield, MO is 238 miles.
Alton, IL to Valpo is 308 miles.
Not all that huge of a difference.
Alton, IL to SLU is 24 miles
That is a huge difference.
Congrats, you can do the maths :thumbsup:.
The general point was that it is close to home, when you look at D-1 universities within a certain radius from his hometown. It is 70 miles closer than Valpo, and 3 1/2 hours is not a far distance for someone to travel for college. This is coming from someone that did the 19-20 hour drive from DFW to Valpo.
Quote from: valpo64 on April 10, 2021, 09:21:29 PM
"WH" has hit the nail on the head. Some of us are getting tired of the constant negative comments regarding Coach Lottich. Whenever some negativity regarding our program arises it is always Coach's fault. Everyone's criticisms, including players, are correct in their respective assessments ...the critics are always right and the fault is always in the program and the Coach. Some appear to go to great lengths to find fault. It would be interesting to hear some of our posters to go on other school's boards and access their problems with a teams successes/failures, player movement, coaches performance, and who and where to place the blame for negative outcomes in the respective program. The glass is not always half empty.
The constancy of the negative comments proportionately reflects the constancy of negative things happening to the Valpo mens bball program.
Many ascribe blame to Lottich specifically because on more than on occasion players and their family members have specified him in their complaints. Then, there is the matter of him being the head coach of the program and thus ultimatley being more responsible than any other individual for its successes and failures.
I'm afraid no one has had to go to very great lengths at all to find fault with Lottich. He inhereited an almost perennial 20 win per season program and aside from one good year with the old coach's players as well as a flash in the pan postseason run to the conference championship game, he has turned the very same program into a reliable bottom-feeder, with no end in sight to the losing. It's apparent no great lengths are required.
One must simply look up the team's record to find good cause to be critical, or the number of players fleeing en masse from the program each offseason. The constant criticism is not born out of contrivance but fundamental indications of failure.
Honestly, in the case of Valpo mens bball, the glass is niether half-full nor half-empty. That would suggest an equal amount of good and bad, and individuals' perceptions about such being the only real disparity. But there is far more bad than good here. However, if it makes you feel better, perhaps we could say the glass is something along the lines of 1/8 "full" -- which seems far more appropriate than to say half-full.
Here's a good line for you: how can we reasonably act as though the glass were half-full when just days ago the roster was half-full because of all the transfers?
Since joining the MVC, Valpo has one non-losing regular season record. The exception being when we went .500 a couple of years ago. We have lost far more than we have won in our new conference and have demostrated no meaningful progress towards sustained improvement. Every offseason there is a mass exodus of talent. This offseason we lost almost half of our roster, and players have very publicly called out the coach in humiliating fashion. What is there to be positive about exactly?
As I'm sure you expected, I couldn't have less of an interest in what happens with the other teams in the conference. I'm not a fan of their programs.
Furthermore, there is objectively far more to take issue with regarding Valpo bball than the rest of our conference foes with very few exceptions.
Quote from: JBC1824 on April 10, 2021, 07:48:42 PM
1315 was very clearly responding to a previous poster's hypothetical and addressing such along hypothetical lines. He was not asserting that any of what was discussed in his post or the post he was referring to had indeed happened.
Furthermore, no one needs to "make" our coach look bad. He very obviously looks bad all on his own. Arguably the program's second best player made a lateral transfer to a conference foe, in a rather apparent "F you" to the coach/school. This comes on the heels of another player who should have been one of our best players of the future having decided to transfer and on his way out being as publicly critical of his coaches as I can recall any D1 college athlete being....
Then there's the wider backdrop of the mens bball program having lost a total of seven players to transfer this offseason, which is high even amidst the current transfer climate, and having lost far more transfers over the past few years than any of our conference foes. It's also a safe bet someone would be hard-pressed to come up with more than a handful of other programs having lost as many players to transfer as Valpo has during Lottich's tenure -- a tenure which most notably of all though has been characterized by losing basketball games.
To suggest we have "no idea" what JO was referring to is silly. His "diatribe" may have been irresponsible behavior for a young man in his position, but it was specific.
It is also equally as likely that JO's "truth" accurately reflects the current atmosphere inside the Valpo mens bball program. And honestly, common sense would suggest there is some level of truth to what he had to say. Each and every one of us has wondered what has been "off" with this program these past few years. JO's comments provide a very plausible indication as to what this could be: unaccountability. To dismiss his comments completely as you appear to have done is being intentionally mindless.
WH, I understand it's your stated interest to keep the posts on this forum positive so potential recruits viewing the forum might not be turned off from joining the program. But the lengths to which you go to consistently turd polish each obviously negative thing which happens to the program are becoming a bit much.
I do appreciate your pertinacity.
A quick scan of your 25 posts over your short 3 month history as a member of this forum are pretty revealing. You haven't made so much as 1 positive comment about anything related to Valpo basketball - winning game performances, individual accomplishments, new recruits, nothing. You have an obsession with trashing our coach, our program, and piling on when others do the same. You breed negativity.
Maybe you would care to explain why you're so venomous. I might be able to help. Or, in case you're a friend/family member of a "mistreated" player, you might want to consider quietly bowing out and finding a healthier outlet for your frustrations. Good luck to you.
Quote from: wh on April 10, 2021, 10:19:04 PM
Quote from: JBC1824 on April 10, 2021, 07:48:42 PM
1315 was very clearly responding to a previous poster's hypothetical and addressing such along hypothetical lines. He was not asserting that any of what was discussed in his post or the post he was referring to had indeed happened.
Furthermore, no one needs to "make" our coach look bad. He very obviously looks bad all on his own. Arguably the program's second best player made a lateral transfer to a conference foe, in a rather apparent "F you" to the coach/school. This comes on the heels of another player who should have been one of our best players of the future having decided to transfer and on his way out being as publicly critical of his coaches as I can recall any D1 college athlete being....
Then there's the wider backdrop of the mens bball program having lost a total of seven players to transfer this offseason, which is high even amidst the current transfer climate, and having lost far more transfers over the past few years than any of our conference foes. It's also a safe bet someone would be hard-pressed to come up with more than a handful of other programs having lost as many players to transfer as Valpo has during Lottich's tenure -- a tenure which most notably of all though has been characterized by losing basketball games.
To suggest we have "no idea" what JO was referring to is silly. His "diatribe" may have been irresponsible behavior for a young man in his position, but it was specific.
It is also equally as likely that JO's "truth" accurately reflects the current atmosphere inside the Valpo mens bball program. And honestly, common sense would suggest there is some level of truth to what he had to say. Each and every one of us has wondered what has been "off" with this program these past few years. JO's comments provide a very plausible indication as to what this could be: unaccountability. To dismiss his comments completely as you appear to have done is being intentionally mindless.
WH, I understand it's your stated interest to keep the posts on this forum positive so potential recruits viewing the forum might not be turned off from joining the program. But the lengths to which you go to consistently turd polish each obviously negative thing which happens to the program are becoming a bit much.
I do appreciate your pertinacity.
A quick scan of your 25 posts over your short 3 month history as a member of this forum are pretty revealing. You haven't made so much as 1 positive comment about anything related to Valpo basketball - winning game performances, individual accomplishments, new recruits, nothing. You have an obsession with trashing our coach, our program, and piling on when others do the same. You breed negativity.
Maybe you would care to explain why you're so venomous. I might be able to help. Or, in case you're a friend/family member of a "mistreated" player, you might want to consider quietly bowing out and finding a healthier outlet for your frustrations. Good luck to you.
Over the past three months there have been pretty "revealing" developments as it relates to Valpo mens bball, or have there not been?
Should someone commenting on the state of the program over these past few months have had negative or positive things to say?
The answer is obvious.
I'm also getting tired of the "Lottich is," or "Lottich isn't," on every topic here, and I say this as a member of Team Lottich Isn't. Can we all just agree with the returning roster, incoming freshmen, and experienced transfers that next year is THE year where we find out if he's the guy or not?
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on April 10, 2021, 11:20:59 PM
I'm also getting tired of the "Lottich is," or "Lottich isn't," on every topic here, and I say this as a member of Team Lottich Isn't. Can we all just agree with the returning roster, incoming freshmen, and experienced transfers that next year is THE year where we find out if he's the guy or not?
No one is singing Matt's praises and riling the naysayers. These discussions begin with a small number of Matt haters blaming him for every development, siding without exception with the quitters, taking their word as gospel, accusing him for being in over his head, running the wrong offense, promoting the claims of some 18-year-old somewhere who said Matt can't relate to the players, that the players don't like him, blah, blah, blah. Not one of these people has the slightest clue whether any of it is true, but like 10 year olds think it must be so because otherwise why would players be leaving the program. This nonsense is projected on this board on a daily basis for the world to see - friends, foes, recruits, players families, everyone. They do this knowing full well that Matt is not in a position to tell his side of the story or set the record straight. It's cowardly, unfair, and irresponsible, but it seems to be the order of the day on forums where people operate in anonymity. Others of us see this for what it is and aren't willing for these people to go unchecked and mislead everyone who follows this board that these are the prevailing beliefs of Crusader fans when they're not. When the incessant critics knock off their crap, no one will need to set the record straight. It's that simple.
Quote from: wh on April 11, 2021, 12:20:52 AMQuote from: NativeCheesehead on April 10, 2021, 11:20:59 PMI'm also getting tired of the "Lottich is," or "Lottich isn't," on every topic here, and I say this as a member of Team Lottich Isn't. Can we all just agree with the returning roster, incoming freshmen, and experienced transfers that next year is THE year where we find out if he's the guy or not?
No one is singing Matt's praises and riling the naysayers. These discussions begin with a small number of Matt haters blaming him for every development, siding without exception with the quitters, taking their word as gospel, accusing him for being in over his head, running the wrong offense, promoting the claims of some 18-year-old somewhere who said Matt can't relate to the players, that the players don't like him, blah, blah, blah. Not one of these people has the slightest clue whether any of it is true, but like 10 year olds think it must be so because otherwise why would players be leaving the program. This nonsense is projected on this board on a daily basis for the world to see - friends, foes, recruits, players families, everyone. They do this knowing full well that Matt is not in a position to tell his side of the story or set the record straight. It's cowardly, unfair, and irresponsible, but it seems to be the order of the day on forums where people operate in anonymity. Others of us see this for what it is and aren't willing for these people to go unchecked and mislead everyone who follows this board that these are the prevailing beliefs of Crusader fans when they're not. When the incessant critics knock off their crap, no one will need to set the record straight. It's that simple.
The perception argument about the potential effect that these comments may or may not have on recruiting or overall feelings toward the university and the Valpo experience cuts both ways wh. Suppose everyone reacted to the news of a transfer in the manner that you and those who take a more optimistic view of things would find most in accordance with reality and be quick to call any kid who decides to transfer spoiled entitled emblematic of the ills of his generation disloyal questioning their motives or even whether their attitude is conducive to success in life all without knowing the reasons behind their transfer all of which I have seen in some form or fashion insinuated by posters more keen to take Matt's side on things. Does this language seem responsible to you? Might that language be perhaps a little unfair? How would you feel as a player to have to read some of these posts about guys who have transferred? Sit down shut up don't question anything or voice concerns or we'll call you every name under the sun and question the truth of your reasons if and when you decide to leave and explain the potential reasons why? Yeah great. Sign me up. This is the fanbase I want to play for.
I am well-aware that this cuts both ways. People undermining Lottich and wanting the university to invest more in the program and questioning the school's commitment to success in basketball might have a negative effect on recruits and potential recruits. But, those who have transferred know far more about what Matt is like as a coach how he treats them and other players how he conducts himself whether his offensive and defensive schemes or gameplanning are up to snuff and everything else than any of us on either side of the argument. Like it or not, being a Lottich defender doesn't inherently make one the fount of all wisdom and when posters go around bashing players and questioning players without acknowledging even the faintest possibility that maybe the coaching staff had some influence on why a given recruit decided to transfer that likewise is an opinion that cannot go unchecked and unchallenged lest it be incorrectly seen as the prevailing belief of the fanbase. In a strange way, the optimists and the pessimists need each other so that others might see the truth even if we who are more or less set in our opinions on either side refuse to or are unable to see it.
I reiterate, When somebody who is getting minutes and given every chance to contribute and by most accounts is reasonably successful decides "I'm outta here," it raises some questions especially when they didn't transfer up to a bigger program (Clay) or seemed perfect for the University (JO). It should also be pointed out that those who take the more optimistic view also operate within the realm of conjecture and at best an incomplete view of the facts. It's likely that the truth is messy and somewhere between the poles of abject negativity and positivity. And how do you suppose our fanbase is perceived when those who disagree with certain views suggest that a person who holds those views be medicated (not your words but those of another poster) or act like 10 year olds? (Your words just now)? That sort of messaging betrays and belies your stated goal of promoting a family ethos among the fanbase and program and sends the very message of disunity and instability that you are trying to prevent or ignore. Unfortunately, the facts are what they are: Yes, in this climate where transfers are more frequent recruiting and team building have become harder and instability and uncertainty among the roster is increased. That does not fully explain or excuse however the amount and degree of turnover we have experienced in the Lottich era. We have stars key contributors and guys playing heavy minutes saying thanks but no thanks. We have a kid who should have been tailor made for Valpo (JO he went to a Lutheran High School for Christ's Sake) decide to leave after ONE SEASON. We had our minutes leader who also happens to be our second leading scorer leading rebounder and second in assists transfer within our conference. It's possible it could have been to be closer to home but that doesn't really wash because SIU Bradley Illinois State Indiana State and Evansville are all closer to his hometown than Missouri State is.
Even if we can believe the argument that we have recruited to accommodate the loss of Clay (and it can certainly be argued that that is true) it is unlikely that losing Clay will result in more wins in the short run even with his offensive limitations. Yes, we should want people who want to be here, but when we are losing so many players even key contributors and have had 5+ transfers in two of the last three seasons that suggests and issue that goes beyond loyalty entitlement and speaks to a need to examine the culture (or lack thereof perhaps?) within the program. I don't remember seeing many other programs have to completely overhaul their roster twice in three years due to transfer and never due to graduation or a coach's departure. No question the Lottich era has been fraught with adversity and difficult circumstances maybe even some bad luck. Yes, it's certainly a tough climate Matt is recruiting and coaching in but I think it's fair to wonder if perhaps he is creating some of his own problems. At this point I believe that serious questions and concern about the direction and leadership of the program are more than fair and totally warranted. It's not pedantic or controversial or disloyal to voice these concerns.
Am I a bit harsh and forceful in my criticisms? Perhaps. Should I moderate my tone a little bit? Maybe. But that doesn't mean I'm totally out of step with reality or "siding with the quitters." Unfortunately, your attempt to "set the record straight" as you put it is plagued and beset by the very same slanted misperceptions you were attempting to correct, albeit from a different side of the issue. I might be wrong especially since as you stated Matt is limited in his ability to give his side of the story to give us a fuller and more accurate reflection of the record and I readily believe that it may indeed be the case that I am wrong but that doesn't make you right or innocent of some of the very charges you have laid at the feet of the Lottich detractors.
Quote from: JBC1824 on April 10, 2021, 07:48:42 PMThen there's the wider backdrop of the mens bball program having lost a total of seven players to transfer this offseason, which is high even amidst the current transfer climate,
To be fair, seven is NOT like seven transferring from Indiana State or Green Bay. We lost one walk-on, one Senior, one fifth year Senior who left the team mid-season and one 100% bench player. So three is a fair number and well within the norm during this seismic shift.
Negativity or positivity regarding the program should not be the issue here. What we should be more concerned with is how we are treating each other on this board when other posters say things we do not agree with.
I enjoy reading both the positive and negative posts here, because they help me see both perspectives on the state of the program. What I hate as a member of this community are posters responding so negatively towards one another.
We are all here because of our connection to this university.
I have been an active reader of this board since 2014. I only joined this year to post because of my concern for the direction of the program outweighed my distaste of social media. Someone involved on this board for 10 minutes or 10 years should not be how we judge their connection to the university or the relevance of their opinion.
Quote from: wh on April 11, 2021, 12:20:52 AM
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on April 10, 2021, 11:20:59 PM
I'm also getting tired of the "Lottich is," or "Lottich isn't," on every topic here, and I say this as a member of Team Lottich Isn't. Can we all just agree with the returning roster, incoming freshmen, and experienced transfers that next year is THE year where we find out if he's the guy or not?
No one is singing Matt's praises and riling the naysayers. These discussions begin with a small number of Matt haters blaming him for every development, siding without exception with the quitters, taking their word as gospel, accusing him for being in over his head, running the wrong offense, promoting the claims of some 18-year-old somewhere who said Matt can't relate to the players, that the players don't like him, blah, blah, blah. Not one of these people has the slightest clue whether any of it is true, but like 10 year olds think it must be so because otherwise why would players be leaving the program. This nonsense is projected on this board on a daily basis for the world to see - friends, foes, recruits, players families, everyone. They do this knowing full well that Matt is not in a position to tell his side of the story or set the record straight. It's cowardly, unfair, and irresponsible, but it seems to be the order of the day on forums where people operate in anonymity. Others of us see this for what it is and aren't willing for these people to go unchecked and mislead everyone who follows this board that these are the prevailing beliefs of Crusader fans when they're not. When the incessant critics knock off their crap, no one will need to set the record straight. It's that simple.
I respect other posters calls for restraint and decency. However, I will not not be living up to them on this occasion....
WH now appears to be having a minor meltdown because of all the mean things posters have had to say about Matt Lottich and the current state of the bball program.
But who is responsible for developments related to the mens bball program if not its head coach?
According to WH, if Matt were to tell "his side of the story," he would be "setting the record straight." But when a player tells his side of the story, he should be mocked and suffer character defamation....
This is called hypocrisy.
In a variety of ways some of this forum's posters have said Matt Lottich is a bad basketball coach, and because of this these posters are "cowards," being "unfair," and even "irresposible?" Give me a break.
Matt Lottich sucks. I don't give a damn what his side of the story is as to why he cannot assemble a competative roster. Furthermore, you seem to be representing his side of the argument quite doggedly. But you cannot reasonably expect others to pretend the coach here is good simply because you choose to do so.
Do you really consider yourself to have been "checking" people? Apparently you've been turd polishing your own takes inside of your head, too.
There is also no longer any such thing as a Valparaiso "Crusader" fan.
Keep "setting the record straight," you turd polisher you.
Quote from: vu72 on April 11, 2021, 08:12:36 AM
Quote from: JBC1824 on April 10, 2021, 07:48:42 PMThen there's the wider backdrop of the mens bball program having lost a total of seven players to transfer this offseason, which is high even amidst the current transfer climate,
To be fair, seven is NOT like seven transferring from Indiana State or Green Bay. We lost one walk-on, one Senior, one fifth year Senior who left the team mid-season and one 100% bench player. So three is a fair number and well within the norm during this seismic shift.
A brief statement of fact: seven players on the 2020-2021 Valpo mens bball team have decided to transfer this offseason in order to play bball for another school next season.
Your comment also ignores the years prior to this, when we have lost large numbers of players to transfer as well. Valpo has suffered more transfers than any of our conference foes during Lottich's tenure. I would also challenge anyone to find more than a handful of other DI mens bball programs amongst the 350 or so across the country which have lost more players to transfer than Valpo has during this time. Part of me doubts there are any.
Quote from: JBC1824 on April 11, 2021, 04:52:21 PM
Quote from: vu72 on April 11, 2021, 08:12:36 AM
Quote from: JBC1824 on April 10, 2021, 07:48:42 PMThen there's the wider backdrop of the mens bball program having lost a total of seven players to transfer this offseason, which is high even amidst the current transfer climate,
To be fair, seven is NOT like seven transferring from Indiana State or Green Bay. We lost one walk-on, one Senior, one fifth year Senior who left the team mid-season and one 100% bench player. So three is a fair number and well within the norm during this seismic shift.
A brief statement of fact: seven players on the 2020-2021 Valpo mens bball team have decided to transfer this offseason in order to play bball for another school next season.
Your comment also ignores the years prior to this, when we have lost large numbers of players to transfer as well. Valpo has suffered more transfers than any of our conference foes during Lottich's tenure. I would also challenge anyone to find more than a handful of other DI mens bball programs amongst the 350 or so across the country which have lost more players to transfer than Valpo has during this time. Part of me doubts there are any.
I think we've heard this about 50 times before, said in 50 different ways. Thank you for beating a dead horse.
Quote from: wh on April 11, 2021, 05:36:04 PM
Quote from: JBC1824 on April 11, 2021, 04:52:21 PM
Quote from: vu72 on April 11, 2021, 08:12:36 AM
Quote from: JBC1824 on April 10, 2021, 07:48:42 PMThen there's the wider backdrop of the mens bball program having lost a total of seven players to transfer this offseason, which is high even amidst the current transfer climate,
To be fair, seven is NOT like seven transferring from Indiana State or Green Bay. We lost one walk-on, one Senior, one fifth year Senior who left the team mid-season and one 100% bench player. So three is a fair number and well within the norm during this seismic shift.
A brief statement of fact: seven players on the 2020-2021 Valpo mens bball team have decided to transfer this offseason in order to play bball for another school next season.
Your comment also ignores the years prior to this, when we have lost large numbers of players to transfer as well. Valpo has suffered more transfers than any of our conference foes during Lottich's tenure. I would also challenge anyone to find more than a handful of other DI mens bball programs amongst the 350 or so across the country which have lost more players to transfer than Valpo has during this time. Part of me doubts there are any.
I think we've heard this about 50 times before, said in 50 different ways. Thank you for beating a dead horse.
When WH cannot polish a turd, he doesnt want to hear about it.
Quote from: wh on April 11, 2021, 05:36:04 PM
Quote from: JBC1824 on April 11, 2021, 04:52:21 PM
Quote from: vu72 on April 11, 2021, 08:12:36 AM
Quote from: JBC1824 on April 10, 2021, 07:48:42 PMThen there's the wider backdrop of the mens bball program having lost a total of seven players to transfer this offseason, which is high even amidst the current transfer climate,
To be fair, seven is NOT like seven transferring from Indiana State or Green Bay. We lost one walk-on, one Senior, one fifth year Senior who left the team mid-season and one 100% bench player. So three is a fair number and well within the norm during this seismic shift.
A brief statement of fact: seven players on the 2020-2021 Valpo mens bball team have decided to transfer this offseason in order to play bball for another school next season.
Your comment also ignores the years prior to this, when we have lost large numbers of players to transfer as well. Valpo has suffered more transfers than any of our conference foes during Lottich's tenure. I would also challenge anyone to find more than a handful of other DI mens bball programs amongst the 350 or so across the country which have lost more players to transfer than Valpo has during this time. Part of me doubts there are any.
I think we've heard this about 50 times before, said in 50 different ways. Thank you for beating a dead horse.
I just hope in a few years we're not worried that other teams are beating a dead program. We need to show life and more importantly keep our players around this year. If we can do that, if we can finish in the top 4-6 and not lose any significant transfers so that it's easy to see a path to becoming consistently competitive you would see a different tenor to my posts. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way. I said if we could avoid Thursday I would consider it a successful season. We did. And I was all set to be excited for the future. We had the building blocks in place had recovered decently from JFL's departure and another seemingly strong class coming in. Now losing Clay and (especially given the players we've recruited) JO there are a lot of concerns as to whether we're going backwards again. I am very concerned that we will be a Thursday team again this year unless this incoming freshman class is as good as advertised. Again I hope I eat all of these words and can get excited that success is just around the corner but I just don't see the path right now and I just don't feel like Lottich is the person who can get us on that path. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Prove me wrong Matt. Prove me wrong and build this program into a consistent winner at the MVC level and you won't find a more ardent supporter than me. It's not personal and has nothing to do with you or who you are. I just frankly don't think you can do it.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 11, 2021, 06:34:29 PMand not lose any significant transfers
Apparently you've missed that fact that now over 1300 players have transferred which are effecting EVERY team Big 10 or otherwise. If simply is part of the future and if the coach does a good job of developing a player then there is all the more reason why that said player is movin on up. It is just part of reality. Not automatically on the coach. Duke has transfers, Baylor has transfers, GCU has transfers. Get the picture?
Quote from: vu72 on April 11, 2021, 07:56:39 PMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on April 11, 2021, 06:34:29 PMand not lose any significant transfers
Apparently you've missed that fact that now over 1300 players have transferred which are effecting EVERY team Big 10 or otherwise. If simply is part of the future and if the coach does a good job of developing a player then there is all the more reason why that said player is movin on up. It is just part of reality. Not automatically on the coach. Duke has transfers, Baylor has transfers, GCU has transfers. Get the picture?
How many of those teams have had the following happen t0 them over the past 3 years?
Have had to turn over the entire roster.. (5+ transfers). Twice...
Lost their leading scorer and rebounder all three years...
Have lost at least one player to a conference rival...
It was easy to accept or at least understand the rash of transfers two offseasons ago because
1. Most of those kids transferred up
2. There were legitimate culture questions that made it fairly easy to give Matt the benefit of the doubt
3. Some of these (I believe) were Bryce's recruits
It was easy to accept or at least understand JFL's departure because...
1. He was moving closer to home and
2. He transferred up
This wave of transfers is particularly disconcerting because:
1. These are all unequivocally Matt's players who were recruited to play for Matt
2. Not a single one of these players has transferred up (pending Ognacevic and your perception of Missouri State's program) suggesting multiple recruiting whiffs by Matt
3. We lost a key contributor to a conference rival suggesting that we are perceived as being inferior to our new peers
4. We lost a kid who came to Valpo for non-basketball reasons because he didn't think enough of Matt as a coach or some other aspect of the program even after being recruited by him and getting to know him in High School. And we lost him after one season potentially to a team in a lesser conference.
Think about that: Clay would rather play alongside Mosley and Prim (assuming Prim comes back) meaning less shots and less scoring than potentially reprise his role as a leader at Valpo. Ognacevic who should have been a hand in glove fit for Valpo. That should have been a slam dunk recruit on which Matt could potentially start to rebuild the program and now he's gone after one season. We'll never truly know why but it seems to me that his perception of Matt Lottich played a role. I don't know how many more times or different ways I can say this: If you're content to just consider it part of the modern culture and not feel concerned about the direction of the program then I don't believe you're seeing the whole picture. This has to be the do or die year for Matt Lottich. We can't afford to continue to be mired in mediocrity for too much longer.
A few points.
I don't think any of the Lottich supporters are saying he's not responsible at all for the departures. Of course he plays a role and he probably has driven a few players away. You don't think the same could be said about Izzo, or Krzyzewski or Knight or almost any coach? If we were winning at a high rate, people put up with it. If were not, especially in these times, kids leave. Lottich is young, still figuring it out and likely has an abrasive personality. Its not the best mix.
I think Clay going to Missouri State says more about him than it does Valpo, IMO. I believe he had his eyes set on a bigger conference, but I am to assume none came calling. So he made a lateral move, and probably in part because MoSt had history with him and knew what he was potentially capable of, and also knowing he wouldn't be needed to play a large offensive role on their team.
All this talk about JO being a perfect fit for Valpo is conjecture. He went to a Lutheren High School and faith is important to him = Perfect Fit. And don't get me wrong, maybe he is a great kid and maybe he was a perfect fit. But he also could be a selfish A-hole for all I know. The former is probably true, but we are all going on about how losing him is a clear sign that Lottich can't cut it. I'm not happy about losing him, I think it sucks, but sometimes people just don't work out. I will say I was not happy about JO's role on the team and games where he would shoot the lights out and then sit the bench the 2nd half was infuriating. And his comments do shed light on what is likely a real issue. But it is also one persons opinion and the posters on this board take it as fact (vs the opinion that it is) and couple it with the perfect fit argument to spin it into this huge red flag.
I said months ago, there are 5 players I did not want to lose but if we keep 3 of the 5 I am happy. We kept 3 of those 5, so I am still sticking with what I said and I am happy. Now I assumed Clay would leave and I would maybe have preferred JO stay vs Barret (If Barrett had not gotten hurt this may be different), but otherwise, Edwards and Krikke are clearly the leaders of the team. I think we reupped with some good transfers that can shoot the ball and I am very excited about the incoming Freshman. Regardless of what happens, next year we will lose another 4+ players to transfers and we will argue the same thing. I have no doubt about that.
None of this is to say I don't think there is an issue and that we should just ignore it or not complain about it. Lottich is far from perfect and he needs to get better if we want to win. But to WH's point, we should be more cognizant about what we say and how we say it. There is bashing and there is constructive criticism. I am as guilty as any of us about sometimes bashing (especially when it came to the play of certain players). And I probably give Lottich more leeway and forgiveness than I should. But I do think the program is making progress that we should be hopeful about. It's hard for me to advocate an overhaul and take the risk that we start from scratch when we are improving, albeit slowly.
What are some facts we know? Players transfer all the time, the number of players entering the transfer portal is increasing, and players transfer for any number of reasons.
In the case of Donovan Clay, we don't know. Did he think that he should be getting more opportunities? Did he see himself like Joseph Yesufu, who averaged 9 minutes a game as a freshman and still only 23 minutes per game as a sophomore, then transferred to Kansas?
Missouri State is a good team, and depending on who comes back they could be very good next year. Perhaps some in his circle thought Clay would get offers to go to a Big 10 program, a Big 12 program, or even to SLU, and when it became clear those were not going to happen, Missouri State was the best option available that was somewhat close to home. Again, we just don't know.
Coaches get evaluated by wins and losses, and by running a program that positively represents their university. My *guess* is that we'll see where things are for Coach Lottich a year from now based on those dimensions.
Quote from: vuny98 on April 12, 2021, 08:52:42 AM
All this talk about JO being a perfect fit for Valpo is conjecture. He went to a Lutheren High School and faith is important to him = Perfect Fit. And don't get me wrong, maybe he is a great kid and maybe he was a perfect fit. But he also could be a selfish A-hole for all I know. The former is probably true...
Yes, the former is true. As I have stated previously, I did get to know JO, and I will not reveal anything about private interactions, almost none concerning basketball anyway, so I haven't commented in detail on this, but my view is not based upon conjecture. I will merely say I consider him to be a fine young man that I'm sorry to see VU lose.
I would just point out that a perfect fit for Valpo the University may not mean a perfect fit for the Valpo Basketball Team. It's easier to be a fit on a campus than it is to be a fit on a tightly controlled/small group on a campus. Most students have the ability to pick and choose who they associate with and how or to leave an org if it's not a culture fit for them. That's not the case for our athletes. Those not on scholarship or on partial scholarships who picked Valpo with the campus as a whole more in mine than some of our other athletes might find it easy/economical to quit the sport and immerse themselves in other places on campus but for those that choose Valpo with the idea of playing their preferred sport as the main focus for picking college/their college experience a fit on a team can matter more than an overall campus fit.
I would like to hear the comments from those who seem to know all the facts and where to place blame for kids transferring from a school comment on some of the other MVC schools such as Drake, Illinois State, Southern Illinois, even Loyola now and perhaps others who also either have lost or continue to lose players in recent years to the transfer portal. Some of you must think that the coach at Drake should lose his job also, after all he lost the best big man in The Valley last year then this year lost one of the best, maybe the best, point guard in the league.
I will be interested in learning where JO lands and what makes it the new perfect fit.
I do know for a fact that Clay was contacted by 2 SEC schools and 1 B10 school. Contacted does not mean offered -- and considering he went to MSU, I would assume he didn't get the offers. I think he thought he was going big time, and that didn't pan out. MSU has a bigger budget and better facilities,. But Valpo has things that are not easily replicated, especially at a public school -- which is why the posters on here are so passionate.
We won 8 games last year. That is the only fact I care about.
We can spin it on Lottich or the players and pontificate all day on it. At some point a change has to happen. Hopefully leadership at Valpo are having those discussions.
I wouldn't be surprised if JO ends up in the Valley. Seems like the only whacky thing that hasn't happened. Wouldn't that be something.
Quote from: valpo64 on April 12, 2021, 10:39:40 AMI would like to hear the comments from those who seem to know all the facts and where to place blame for kids transferring from a school comment on some of the other MVC schools such as Drake, Illinois State, Southern Illinois, even Loyola now and perhaps others who also either have lost or continue to lose players in recent years to the transfer portal. Some of you must think that the coach at Drake should lose his job also, after all he lost the best big man in The Valley last year then this year lost one of the best, maybe the best, point guard in the league.
I don't recall any of these teams having to turn over their entire roster. Illinois State is not a feather in the cap for your argument as that team has been mediocre for years to the point where even we have pretty consistent success against them. Pretty much that entire fanbase wants Muller gone. As for SIU, SIU lost Cook to Gonzaga. Not much they could have done about that. I don't recall them losing anyone else recently that really hurt them. Loyola lost some depth pieces but if the seniors come back they'll be more than fine and if not I have confidence that they will reload. That confidence could be misplaced but two Sweet 16s (and one final four both of which Valentine was on the bench for) in four years says a lot and kids will want to go there.
Now let's look at Drake... Drake lost Robbins to a school that had his uncle (I believe) on staff and Yesufu to Kansas in part because the seniors who played for DeVries think so much of him that they all want to come back. I don't know if a starting role would have been enough to keep Yesufu from Kansas but that loss while painful is not as crushing as one might think because of the overall nucleus still in place (at least for this year). Moreover they just added a 4 star recruit this offseason (granted it was DeVries's son). His son could have gone to Oregon Creighton or Iowa State and chose to play for his father in part because he also believes in him as a coach. Drake is a really bad comp to our situation and not good for your argument because DeVries assembled a patchwork roster (from players from our own backyard mostly I might add) and proceeded to win 20+ games 3 straight years finish in the top 2 of the MVC twice and make the postseason twice including winning a game in the NCAA Tournament. Matt has NEVER won 20 games with his own players nor has he finished higher than T-5th and has had only one .500 season. DeVries's WORST MVC mark is 8-10. We've only been better than that once under Lottich (9-9) Right now, he's a lesser version of what Mike Davis was at IU. If we were performing as well as Drake and still losing key contributors then I would say "Yeah I guess it's part of the culture" but we're not. There are problems that simple "Entitlement" or "generational cultural differences" simply can't explain and I don't believe it's wise to simply choose to ignore them just because it makes you feel better.
Quote from: bb33 on April 12, 2021, 11:21:57 AM
I do know for a fact that Clay was contacted by 2 SEC schools and 1 B10 school. Contacted does not mean offered -- and considering he went to MSU, I would assume he didn't get the offers. I think he thought he was going big time, and that didn't pan out. MSU has a bigger budget and better facilities,. But Valpo has things that are not easily replicated, especially at a public school -- which is why the posters on here are so passionate.
Quote from: Chairback on April 12, 2021, 12:54:12 PM
We won 8 games last year. That is the only fact I care about.
We can spin it on Lottich or the players and pontificate all day on it. At some point a change has to happen. Hopefully leadership at Valpo are having those discussions.
I wouldn't be surprised if JO ends up in the Valley. Seems like the only whacky thing that hasn't happened. Wouldn't that be something.
I agree it's time to put up or shut up. With the possible exception of JO, there isn't 1 player who transferred out that was going to help get us there based on their current season stats. Blame it on bad recruiting/player development, blame it on them, or whatever suits your fancy. They were the definition of insanity. There's no doubt in my mind that we have finally transitioned to MVC-level talent. If Matt can't deliver the goods with this new bunch, he is going to become the definition of insanity a year from now.
So just for fun I checked the transfer portal to find out there are now 1317 in the portal and of those, 383 have found a new home. Musical chairs indeed! What is perhaps overlooked in all this is the fact that there are probably the same amount of kids on the D2 transfer portal. Verbal Commits does not have a total but it looks as big as D1. So given that clearly there are kids who played D2 who can contribute to a D1 team (we signed one already), Matt has about 1500 kids to evaluate!! Fun stuff... :o
It is now 1,325. Liam Robbins now at Vanderbilt.
Quote from: vuny98 on April 12, 2021, 08:52:42 AM
A few points.
I don't think any of the Lottich supporters are saying he's not responsible at all for the departures. Of course he plays a role and he probably has driven a few players away. You don't think the same could be said about Izzo, or Krzyzewski or Knight or almost any coach? If we were winning at a high rate, people put up with it. If were not, especially in these times, kids leave. Lottich is young, still figuring it out and likely has an abrasive personality. Its not the best mix.
I think Clay going to Missouri State says more about him than it does Valpo, IMO. I believe he had his eyes set on a bigger conference, but I am to assume none came calling. So he made a lateral move, and probably in part because MoSt had history with him and knew what he was potentially capable of, and also knowing he wouldn't be needed to play a large offensive role on their team.
All this talk about JO being a perfect fit for Valpo is conjecture. He went to a Lutheren High School and faith is important to him = Perfect Fit. And don't get me wrong, maybe he is a great kid and maybe he was a perfect fit. But he also could be a selfish A-hole for all I know. The former is probably true, but we are all going on about how losing him is a clear sign that Lottich can't cut it. I'm not happy about losing him, I think it sucks, but sometimes people just don't work out. I will say I was not happy about JO's role on the team and games where he would shoot the lights out and then sit the bench the 2nd half was infuriating. And his comments do shed light on what is likely a real issue. But it is also one persons opinion and the posters on this board take it as fact (vs the opinion that it is) and couple it with the perfect fit argument to spin it into this huge red flag.
I said months ago, there are 5 players I did not want to lose but if we keep 3 of the 5 I am happy. We kept 3 of those 5, so I am still sticking with what I said and I am happy. Now I assumed Clay would leave and I would maybe have preferred JO stay vs Barret (If Barrett had not gotten hurt this may be different), but otherwise, Edwards and Krikke are clearly the leaders of the team. I think we reupped with some good transfers that can shoot the ball and I am very excited about the incoming Freshman. Regardless of what happens, next year we will lose another 4+ players to transfers and we will argue the same thing. I have no doubt about that.
None of this is to say I don't think there is an issue and that we should just ignore it or not complain about it. Lottich is far from perfect and he needs to get better if we want to win. But to WH's point, we should be more cognizant about what we say and how we say it. There is bashing and there is constructive criticism. I am as guilty as any of us about sometimes bashing (especially when it came to the play of certain players). And I probably give Lottich more leeway and forgiveness than I should. But I do think the program is making progress that we should be hopeful about. It's hard for me to advocate an overhaul and take the risk that we start from scratch when we are improving, albeit slowly.
The issue with the transfers is that Valpo has possibly lost more players to transfer than any other program in the entire country during the past five years. This clearly indicates there is a Valpo-specific problem as it relates to transfers. Simply because something happens on a lesser scale elsewhere, and amongst even the best programs, this does not excuse it happening here at quite possibly the highest rate in all of college bball. Your argument completely ignores the extent to which this has been an issue here as compared to these succesful programs or other programs generally.
For instance, if were were talking about the murder rate in cities across the globe, and we were residents of Tijuana, Mexico (the city with the highest murder rate in the world according to some sources), we as Tijuana residents would not say to ourselves, "sure there are a lot of murders here in Tijuana, but what's the big fuss over? Even the safest cities in the world have some murders." This is however the exact logic you're employing.
Yes, if we were winning all of us would gladly put up with the high transfer rate. But we are not winning.
Nearly everything you had to say about the situation involving Clay is itself conjecture, which is the exact basis on which you dismiss others' suggestions that JO was a perfect fit here at Valpo. Be consistent with your standards about what makes for a good argument.
Personally, I have given no indication I believe JO's word as fact. However, I have said and still believe it is more likely than not there is some truth to what he had to say. The public criticism of the coach has also not come from just JO; Clay and his family as well as Robinson made their feelings known publicly. What they all have said taken as a whole does suggest there is a larger issue. It's the whole, "when there's smoke, there's fire" line of thinking. And if you then consider all of this public criticism in the context of us losing more transfers than likely any other program in the country during Lottich's tenure, then yes, this is something of a red flag.
Simply because we happened to retain some of players you like this go 'round does not mean the rate of players transfering away from Valpo is not still a problem. If we continue to lose transfers at this rate we will eventually lose too many players we all like.
Your arguments do seem to suggest we ignore there is problem and not complain about it.
I'm sorry but I will not pretend things are any better than they are at a given time.
We are definitionally not making progress or improving. We had our worst overall record since joining the MVC and second worst conference record this past season.
Quote from: valpo95 on April 12, 2021, 09:17:07 AM
What are some facts we know? Players transfer all the time, the number of players entering the transfer portal is increasing, and players transfer for any number of reasons.
In the case of Donovan Clay, we don't know. Did he think that he should be getting more opportunities? Did he see himself like Joseph Yesufu, who averaged 9 minutes a game as a freshman and still only 23 minutes per game as a sophomore, then transferred to Kansas?
Missouri State is a good team, and depending on who comes back they could be very good next year. Perhaps some in his circle thought Clay would get offers to go to a Big 10 program, a Big 12 program, or even to SLU, and when it became clear those were not going to happen, Missouri State was the best option available that was somewhat close to home. Again, we just don't know.
Coaches get evaluated by wins and losses, and by running a program that positively represents their university. My *guess* is that we'll see where things are for Coach Lottich a year from now based on those dimensions.
Again, the rate at which Valpo loses players to transfer as compared with the other 350 or so D1 college bball programs in the country matters. Unfortunately, we have very likely lost more transfers than anyone else since Lottic became our head coach.
We do know Clay and his family must have vehemently disliked the head coach. Of course one player and his family's feelings are not a big deal, but again, other players have also been publicly critical. Thus a hard look at the situation is warranted -- particularly in light of the rate at which we're losing these transfers.
But if we evaluate Lottich based on those dimensions and on his track record up until this point, how should we characterize the job he has done? To decide we should begin evaluating him next year as opposed to now or any other time is somewhat arbitrary. I understand however you seem to want to give him another year before coming to any conclusions, and that is fair.
Quote from: valpo64 on April 12, 2021, 10:39:40 AM
I would like to hear the comments from those who seem to know all the facts and where to place blame for kids transferring from a school comment on some of the other MVC schools such as Drake, Illinois State, Southern Illinois, even Loyola now and perhaps others who also either have lost or continue to lose players in recent years to the transfer portal. Some of you must think that the coach at Drake should lose his job also, after all he lost the best big man in The Valley last year then this year lost one of the best, maybe the best, point guard in the league.
Yet again, you are ignoring the amount of transfers Valpo has lost as compared with other programs since Lottich became our head coach.
Yes, every program loses some players to transfer each offseason. But we have lost more than any of the other 350 D1 college bball programs over the past five years. This is indeed a problem, is it not?
Moreover, I don't think this is even the first time other players' families have been critical of the program and Lottich or his gameplanning specifically. I remember this being an issue in previous years as well. It's easy to dismiss when it's just one family at one specific time but when there are others voicing similar opinions that is an issue.
Honestly, I have seen some parents who don't have their heads on straight for their kids. I was at some Valpo football games where parents constantly chew out and stalk the officials throughout the game. Very sad indeed. I take parents feedback with a grain of salt as there is emotion in the decision making.
Quote from: JBC1824 on April 12, 2021, 06:51:39 PMQuote from: vuny98 on April 12, 2021, 08:52:42 AMA few points. I don't think any of the Lottich supporters are saying he's not responsible at all for the departures. Of course he plays a role and he probably has driven a few players away. You don't think the same could be said about Izzo, or Krzyzewski or Knight or almost any coach? If we were winning at a high rate, people put up with it. If were not, especially in these times, kids leave. Lottich is young, still figuring it out and likely has an abrasive personality. Its not the best mix. I think Clay going to Missouri State says more about him than it does Valpo, IMO. I believe he had his eyes set on a bigger conference, but I am to assume none came calling. So he made a lateral move, and probably in part because MoSt had history with him and knew what he was potentially capable of, and also knowing he wouldn't be needed to play a large offensive role on their team. All this talk about JO being a perfect fit for Valpo is conjecture. He went to a Lutheren High School and faith is important to him = Perfect Fit. And don't get me wrong, maybe he is a great kid and maybe he was a perfect fit. But he also could be a selfish A-hole for all I know. The former is probably true, but we are all going on about how losing him is a clear sign that Lottich can't cut it. I'm not happy about losing him, I think it sucks, but sometimes people just don't work out. I will say I was not happy about JO's role on the team and games where he would shoot the lights out and then sit the bench the 2nd half was infuriating. And his comments do shed light on what is likely a real issue. But it is also one persons opinion and the posters on this board take it as fact (vs the opinion that it is) and couple it with the perfect fit argument to spin it into this huge red flag. I said months ago, there are 5 players I did not want to lose but if we keep 3 of the 5 I am happy. We kept 3 of those 5, so I am still sticking with what I said and I am happy. Now I assumed Clay would leave and I would maybe have preferred JO stay vs Barret (If Barrett had not gotten hurt this may be different), but otherwise, Edwards and Krikke are clearly the leaders of the team. I think we reupped with some good transfers that can shoot the ball and I am very excited about the incoming Freshman. Regardless of what happens, next year we will lose another 4+ players to transfers and we will argue the same thing. I have no doubt about that. None of this is to say I don't think there is an issue and that we should just ignore it or not complain about it. Lottich is far from perfect and he needs to get better if we want to win. But to WH's point, we should be more cognizant about what we say and how we say it. There is bashing and there is constructive criticism. I am as guilty as any of us about sometimes bashing (especially when it came to the play of certain players). And I probably give Lottich more leeway and forgiveness than I should. But I do think the program is making progress that we should be hopeful about. It's hard for me to advocate an overhaul and take the risk that we start from scratch when we are improving, albeit slowly.
The issue with the transfers is that Valpo has possibly lost more players to transfer than any other program in the entire country during the past five years. This clearly indicates there is a Valpo-specific problem as it relates to transfers. Simply because something happens on a lesser scale elsewhere, and amongst even the best programs, this does not excuse it happening here at quite possibly the highest rate in all of college bball. Your argument completely ignores the extent to which this has been an issue here as compared to these succesful programs or other programs generally. For instance, if were were talking about the murder rate in cities across the globe, and we were residents of Tijuana, Mexico (the city with the highest murder rate in the world according to some sources), we as Tijuana residents would not say to ourselves, "sure there are a lot of murders here in Tijuana, but what's the big fuss over? Even the safest cities in the world have some murders." This is however the exact logic you're employing. Yes, if we were winning all of us would gladly put up with the high transfer rate. But we are not winning. Nearly everything you had to say about the situation involving Clay is itself conjecture, which is the exact basis on which you dismiss others' suggestions that JO was a perfect fit here at Valpo. Be consistent with your standards about what makes for a good argument. Personally, I have given no indication I believe JO's word as fact. However, I have said and still believe it is more likely than not there is some truth to what he had to say. The public criticism of the coach has also not come from just JO; Clay and his family as well as Robinson made their feelings known publicly. What they all have said taken as a whole does suggest there is a larger issue. It's the whole, "when there's smoke, there's fire" line of thinking. And if you then consider all of this public criticism in the context of us losing more transfers than likely any other program in the country during Lottich's tenure, then yes, this is something of a red flag. Simply because we happened to retain some of players you like this go 'round does not mean the rate of players transfering away from Valpo is not still a problem. If we continue to lose transfers at this rate we will eventually lose too many players we all like. Your arguments do seem to suggest we ignore there is problem and not complain about it. I'm sorry but I will not pretend things are any better than they are at a given time. We are definitionally not making progress or improving. We had our worst overall record since joining the MVC and second worst conference record this past season.
Let me reiterate a few things... I clearly said "None of this is to say I don't think there is an issue and that we should just ignore it or not complain about it.". I do think this is a problem and I am not happy about it. I also clearly stated that Lottic was an issue "I don't think any of the Lottich supporters are saying he's not responsible at all for the departures. Of course he plays a role and he probably has driven a few players away." " Lottich is far from perfect and he needs to get better if we want to win."
For the Clay comments, you may have missed the key words, so let me retype them. "I think" "I believe" "IMO" "Assume". All of those in 3 sentences (albeit one was a run on). Yes its conjecture, and I prefaced my comments there to reflect that. I have no problem with people posting their beliefs or opinion. I do it all the time. Its a message board. I was merely pointing out the JO is a perfect fit argument is an opinion and we should treat those comments as such.
I also said in relation to JO, "And his comments do shed light on what is likely a real issue." So clearly I am not dismissing it.
Simply because we happened to retain some of players you like this go 'round does not mean the rate of players transfering away from Valpo is not still a problem. - Never it wasn't a problem, just that I knew we would lose several to transfers this year and I had hoped that at least 3 of the 5 that I viewed as key pieces stayed. Just because I am happy with the outcome doesn't mean you need to be.
Your arguments do seem to suggest we ignore there is problem and not complain about it. " Again "None of this is to say I don't think there is an issue and that we should just ignore it or not complain about it.". It's like you read what I wrote and then just typed the opposite.
We are definitionally not making progress or improving. We had our worst overall record since joining the MVC and second worst conference record this past season. - Agree to disagree. Given the loss of JFL, and the bright spots that were the Freshman class and the play of Krikke, and being in a top heavy MVC and playing those top teams well. I think we did alright. Very inconstant. Not a successful year or a year I'd like to repeat, but I see the building blocks. Record will only tell you so much. Eventually we need to win, that I agree.
Simply put we need Gordon and Zion if he's back to lead Krikke and the Sophomores to keep improving and we need the freshmen to be as good as advertised. If that happens I think a lot of people's opinions will start to turn more positively toward Lottich. Get better. Crack .500. Avoid Thursday again. Show a happy team that likes to play together and who are likely to stay together as much as can be hoped for in this climate and we can all finally cast hopeful eyes toward the future and do so not wistfully but with good reason for that optimism. That's all I want. I don't want to have to force myself to feel hopeful in the face of overwhelming evidence that I shouldn't be. I want genuine reasons for optimism about the program again. Give me that and I am completely fine sticking by and supporting Lottich. But if he can't do that he needs to go. It's that simple.
Quote from: usc4valpo on April 12, 2021, 09:05:07 PM
Honestly, I have seen some parents who don't have their heads on straight for their kids. I was at some Valpo football games where parents constantly chew out and stalk the officials throughout the game. Very sad indeed. I take parents feedback with a grain of salt as there is emotion in the decision making.
As you rightly should.
Quote from: JBC1824 on April 12, 2021, 07:10:26 PMQuote from: valpo64 on April 12, 2021, 10:39:40 AMI would like to hear the comments from those who seem to know all the facts and where to place blame for kids transferring from a school comment on some of the other MVC schools such as Drake, Illinois State, Southern Illinois, even Loyola now and perhaps others who also either have lost or continue to lose players in recent years to the transfer portal. Some of you must think that the coach at Drake should lose his job also, after all he lost the best big man in The Valley last year then this year lost one of the best, maybe the best, point guard in the league.
Yet again, you are ignoring the amount of transfers Valpo has lost as compared with other programs since Lottich became our head coach. Yes, every program loses some players to transfer each offseason. But we have lost more than any of the other 350 D1 college bball programs over the past five years. This is indeed a problem, is it not?
Your comment also ignores the years prior to this, when we have lost large numbers of players to transfer as well. Valpo has suffered more transfers than any of our conference foes during Lottich's tenure.
I would also challenge anyone to find more than a handful of other DI mens bball programs amongst the 350 or so across the country which have lost more players to transfer than Valpo has during this time. Part of me doubts there are any.Your comment also ignores the years prior to this, when we have lost large numbers of players to transfer as well. Valpo has suffered more transfers than any of our conference foes during Lottich's tenure. I would alsochallenge anyone to find more than a handful of other DI mens bball programs amongst the 350 or so across the country which have lost more players to transfer than Valpo has during this time. Part of me doubts there are any.The preceding Bold statements are incorrect or misleading as
fact checked by an independent third party. There are many programs that have more transfers than Valpo (19) over the past 5 years 92017-2021. Following is a partial list of schools that had more (did not include ties) transfers than Valpo's 19. I quit when I got to the letter I cause I got tiered so it is only about 1/3 of the way though the alphabet, but enough to challenge the writer's assumptions:
Akron 21
Albany 24
Bryant 21
Central Conn St 21
Chattanooga 20
Cleveland St 20
Detroit Mercy 23
DePaul 23
Eastern Michigan 21
ETSU 20
Fairfield 20
Florida Gulf Coast 22
Idaho 23
Just because a wrong statement is said over and over does not make it true, but the longer it goes on unchallenged, the more people begin to think that it is true.
vuny98,
To be honest I found your comments confusing and self-contradictory. I will readily admit I likely did not fully understand the arguments you were trying to make or the intent behind them. I'm going to choose not to go through every detail of the disagreement on this one. We will have to agree to disagree.
Quote from: VUBBFan on April 12, 2021, 10:35:15 PM
Quote from: JBC1824 on April 12, 2021, 07:10:26 PMQuote from: valpo64 on April 12, 2021, 10:39:40 AMI would like to hear the comments from those who seem to know all the facts and where to place blame for kids transferring from a school comment on some of the other MVC schools such as Drake, Illinois State, Southern Illinois, even Loyola now and perhaps others who also either have lost or continue to lose players in recent years to the transfer portal. Some of you must think that the coach at Drake should lose his job also, after all he lost the best big man in The Valley last year then this year lost one of the best, maybe the best, point guard in the league.
Yet again, you are ignoring the amount of transfers Valpo has lost as compared with other programs since Lottich became our head coach. Yes, every program loses some players to transfer each offseason. But we have lost more than any of the other 350 D1 college bball programs over the past five years. This is indeed a problem, is it not?
Your comment also ignores the years prior to this, when we have lost large numbers of players to transfer as well. Valpo has suffered more transfers than any of our conference foes during Lottich's tenure. I would alsochallenge anyone to find more than a handful of other DI mens bball programs amongst the 350 or so across the country which have lost more players to transfer than Valpo has during this time. Part of me doubts there are any.
The preceding Bold statements are incorrect or misleading as fact checked by an independent third party. There are many programs that have more transfers than Valpo (19) over the past 5 years 92017-2021. Following is a partial list of schools that had more (did not include ties) transfers than Valpo's 19. I quit when I got to the letter I cause I got tiered so it is only about 1/3 of the way though the alphabet, but enough to challenge the writer's assumptions:
Akron 21
Albany 24
Bryant 21
Central Conn St 21
Chattanooga 20
Cleveland St 20
Detroit Mercy 23
DePaul 23
Eastern Michigan 21
ETSU 20
Fairfield 20
Florida Gulf Coast 22
Idaho 23
Just because a wrong statement is said over and over does not make it true, but the longer it goes on unchallenged, the more people begin to think that it is true.[/size][/font][/size][/font][/size]
I have made the point about Valpo suffering more transfers than other programs in the country many times, as I'm sure you've noticed.
Every single time I have said something along the lines of "Valpo seems likely to have lost more...."
You have highlighted the one occasion I believe when I accidentally wrote this as if I intended to assert the point with certainty. I apologize for that oversight.
We have still lost more transfers than any of our conference opponents, and more than the vast, vast majority of the programs across the country. It is still not a good look.
Quote from: JBC1824 on April 12, 2021, 10:45:58 PMI have made the point about Valpo suffering more transfers than other programs in the country many times, as I'm sure you've noticed. Every single time I have said something along the lines of "Valpo seems likely to have lost more...." You have highlighted the one occasion I believe when I accidentally wrote this as if I intended to assert the point with certainty. I apologize for that oversight. We have still lost more transfers than any of our conference opponents, and more than the vast, vast majority of the programs across the country. It is still not a good lo
[/b]
Now this I agree with.
VUBBFan,
That is indeed enough to challenge my assumptions.
I would also like to give you or whomever looked the information up a lot of credit for the diligent work.
I will say I am surprised there are as many other programs out there with such high transfer numbers. But if you had gotten about 1/3 through the list as you suggested, then I would guess there then figures to be roughly just thirty or fourty programs in the country amongst the three hundred and fifty with more transfers than Valpo over the past five seasons. Therefore, we would be operating in the bottom tenth percentile.
Admittedly this means there are slightly more than a "handful" of other programs having suffered more transfers than us.
However, to an extent I believe we are splitting hairs here.
We cannot expect to establish ourselves as a competitive program again unless the problem with all of the lost transfers is resolved. Being in the bottom ten percent for this particular issue is inexcusable.
Good article in WSJ today about transfers. Some good stats.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/ncaa-college-basketball-transfer-portal-11618246228?st=b3e135ewet18tdk&reflink=article_email_share (https://www.wsj.com/articles/ncaa-college-basketball-transfer-portal-11618246228?st=b3e135ewet18tdk&reflink=article_email_share)
Also, Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, former NBA player, had some interesting comments about the role of parents in today's athletics and how it relates to some of the comments above and transfers, on his twitter April 10 (@TeamRHJAZ).
The one thing that bothers my about this article is the quote from Villanova. They are not the ones who are severely impacted by the transfer rules. It is the mid majors. Many people only look at the athletes in the P5 conference...who are rightly being used to make a lot of money for their schools. It's the mid majors, who could ultimately become farm programs for the high majors. I can see these schools saying, spend a year to two in the mids and if you do well, we will come and get you. So yes, they will change how they do things. The P5s will only become stronger because they can pull great mid major talent and not have to make room for the underclassmen who need development. They can essentially outsource that development time.
Quote from: bb33 on April 13, 2021, 09:39:07 AM
The one thing that bothers my about this article is the quote from Villanova. They are not the ones who are severely impacted by the transfer rules. It is the mid majors. Many people only look at the athletes in the P5 conference...who are rightly being used to make a lot of money for their schools. It's the mid majors, who could ultimately become farm programs for the high majors. I can see these schools saying, spend a year to two in the mids and if you do well, we will come and get you. So yes, they will change how they do things. The P5s will only become stronger because they can pull great mid major talent and not have to make room for the underclassmen who need development. They can essentially outsource that development time.
True enough but it works both ways. Valpo has had transfers from places like Indiana, Virginia Tech, Alabama, Marquette, Charlotte, Rice, Iowa State and, most recently, Wisconsin. There are plenty of top 200 players who start out at a power 5 and then realize that playing time won't be what they thought or that the coach is crazy or whatever and decide to move "down".
That's true. I'm just afraid with the new rule, assuming it passes, will make it a more formalized process than it already is.
As of yesterday there were 1305 transfers listed on Verbal Commits. 19 of those were transfers up. Here is the amazing stat out of 358 D1 or transitioning schools 340 have at least one transferring.
By school
16 transfers - 1 school
12 - 1
10 - 2
9 - 5
8 - 14
7 - 21
6 - 20
5 - 43
4 - 57
Of course that was yesterday, more today I am sure. I see that Neese of Ind State is off the list so he must be returning.
Those transfer downs all had to sit out a year didn't they? Brave new world now.
Based on the numbers cited in the article, an average of nearly 4 scholarship players per team have entered the portal. We're on the high side with 6. Most everyone in the know expects this trend to continue. Many coaches and analysts indicate that recruiting the portal will become more important than traditional recruiting.
The Valpo coaching staff has been doing a stellar job of traditional recruiting over the past 2 years. I think they have already hit a home run in recruiting this year's transfer portal with Trevor Anderson. And they may not be done yet. Matt Bowen's name keeps coming up, especially connected to Wisconsin and Minnesota (Goodnews). Luke seems to have a good Canadian connection, and Matt seems to be great at closing the deal. I also love that we pulled Keyondre from Oklahoma and Sheldon from Florida. Those have to be from special, personal connections. IMO this is all pretty exciting and will hopefully pay dividends in our climb to the top of the conference.
Is not sitting out a year if you transfer just a 2021 one time thing or going forward also? Not sure if it changed forever.
What is the current rule? Not interested in speculation on what could happen.
Quote from: JBC1824 on April 12, 2021, 10:37:14 PMvuny98, To be honest I found your comments confusing and self-contradictory. I will readily admit I likely did not fully understand the arguments you were trying to make or the intent behind them. I'm going to choose not to go through every detail of the disagreement on this one. We will have to agree to disagree.
Your a manager at your job. You have an employee that is new and young and taking over a role that was previously held by several high performers. He has shown some signs of strength but also several weaknesses. He is currently struggling a bit with a certain issue. But many of his peers are also struggling with the same issues, just not to the same extent. Your boss comes to complain about this employee to you.
Do you say:
- I agree, his work is unacceptable. I will fire him right away and find someone new and better.
- There is no problem at all, everyone at his position is having these issues. He is doing fine. No matter who was in these shoes it would be the same.
- Yes I agree he needs to do a better job, But I will remind you he is young and new and many of his peers have similar issues. I am continuing to work with him and if we don't see progress, eventually we will need to make a change.
I went with option #3. It may seem self contradictory or confusing that I can on one hand criticize and complain about the program/coach while also pointing out facts in support of them and optimism for the direction, but that's my perspective.
Loyola just lost another, now up to three. Joey Brunk from Indiana is now in the portal. That would be a great get for us.
How many years have to go by before option 3 is no longer eligible to be selected?
Well the assumption with 3 is that you set a timeline or standards for improvement to be met. right now we have 2 years of high transfers and 2 years of low transfers. The question is what does Mark and Matt's convo look like and what has Mark decided is long enough.
My guess is that there's some attempt to investigat3e this within the athletic department but we won't be privy to it until 1. Mark decides he has not improved or 2. continued and growing pressure from donors/fans convince him that his timeline was too long and he needs to adjust
Sackey ends up at New Orleans
Quote from: VUBBFan on April 13, 2021, 02:25:50 PM
Sackey ends up at New Orleans
Well, if one of their seniors comes back he won't be the shortest player. One is listed at 5'6" AND shot 28.4% from the three!
It's getting lonely at DePaul as Charlie Moore their stud point guard is now in the portal.
isn't the new coach bringing a couple of players from Oregon or did I just make that up in my head?
Quote from: vu72 on April 13, 2021, 02:41:42 PM
It's getting lonely at DePaul as Charlie Moore their stud point guard is now in the portal.
Maybe he'd do better with better coaching, but he (and frankly a lot of the DePaul roster under Leitao) has had a lot of empty calorie production in his collegiate career. With the talent they have on that roster, they certainly should have been better than they were, even with their Covid issues to start the year.
DePaul literally has 3 guys returning from last year and they're still waiting to hear if the 2 HS players that signed LOIs in the fall are still coming. So there's always someone who's worse off.
New Orleans could be a great fit for Sacky. I think his playing time was going down. This is one situation where i think the transfer portal is a good thing for everyone. I wish him the best.
Good choice by Sackey. He will get the playing time at a lower level program, that he would have lost at Valpo.
I'm glad Sackey was able to stay D1 and find a better fit. He is a really good person it just didn't work out here on the court. I'm rooting for him and wish him the bet of luck!
Besides, playing in New Orleans for free while a college student? I can think of worse places to be playing. Good for him.
I think we can micro analyze each transfer in or out and make our cases for and against this coaching staff. Ultimately, the record doesn't lie. We finished outside the bottom four for the first time last season. It's small progress, but it's progress nonetheless. Now it's time for a top 4 finish. If we're there, great. If we're back on Thursday it's time for the HC and AD to go.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on April 13, 2021, 08:59:51 PMI think we can micro analyze each transfer in or out and make our cases for and against this coaching staff. Ultimately, the record doesn't lie. We finished outside the bottom four for the first time last season. It's small progress, but it's progress nonetheless. Now it's time for a top 4 finish. If we're there, great. If we're back on Thursday it's time for the HC and AD to go.
Even with his checkered record of success in hiring coaches I would be very leery of making a change at the AD position. MLB is the best AD we've had by a good margin and we might be thinking the grass is greener on the other side but it actually isn't especially when so many of us question the school's overall commitment to athletics. We might not truly know how good MLB is because he is hamstrung and constrained in some way(s) by the administration. He did a great job with the women's basketball hire I think he would deserve another chance at choosing the next leader for the basketball program if Lottich ultimately doesn't work out.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 13, 2021, 11:04:47 PM
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on April 13, 2021, 08:59:51 PMI think we can micro analyze each transfer in or out and make our cases for and against this coaching staff. Ultimately, the record doesn't lie. We finished outside the bottom four for the first time last season. It's small progress, but it's progress nonetheless. Now it's time for a top 4 finish. If we're there, great. If we're back on Thursday it's time for the HC and AD to go.
Even with his checkered record of success in hiring coaches I would be very leery of making a change at the AD position. MLB is the best AD we've had by a good margin and we might be thinking the grass is greener on the other side but it actually isn't especially when so many of us question the school's overall commitment to athletics. We might not truly know how good MLB is because he is hamstrung and constrained in some way(s) by the administration. He did a great job with the women's basketball hire I think he would deserve another chance at choosing the next leader for the basketball program if Lottich ultimately doesn't work out.
I like MLB, but found this comment funny. MLB is the best AD we've had...out of 2 total in the last 30-35 years :)
https://twitter.com/VerbalCommits/status/1382172540102139904
Quote from: valpotx on April 13, 2021, 11:34:44 PMI like MLB, but found this comment funny. MLB is the best AD we've had...out of 2 total in the last 30-35 years
Actually it's 2 in the last 42 years and only 3 in the last 64 years!
Quote from: nkvu on April 09, 2021, 11:29:48 AM
I also hope we can get a big through the portal. I'm really getting tired of getting out rebounded constantly.
I understand this is a priority, and I am expecting it to be addressed in the near future.
The sit-a-year rule for MBB and football officially gone.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/31258180/ncaa-allow-transfers-play-college-football-basketball-sitting-season-report-says
Who is this Trevor Anderson guy that transferred from Wisconsin ? Seems like a good get, but I know nothing about him!
Did a little research , UWGB commit , got injured , transferred to UW. Played 12 minutes a game. Old senior lol. He could definitely produce for us!
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on April 14, 2021, 04:44:42 PM
The sit-a-year rule for MBB and football officially gone.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/31258180/ncaa-allow-transfers-play-college-football-basketball-sitting-season-report-says
Honestly, it seemed like this was already the case for mid-majors a few years back. If you transferred up to a P5, you were likely to get a 'hardship waiver.' This just makes it official.
Quote from: valpotx on April 14, 2021, 07:29:08 PM
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on April 14, 2021, 04:44:42 PM
The sit-a-year rule for MBB and football officially gone.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/31258180/ncaa-allow-transfers-play-college-football-basketball-sitting-season-report-says
Honestly, it seemed like this was already the case for mid-majors a few years back. If you transferred up to a P5, you were likely to get a 'hardship waiver.' This just makes it official.
I fear we have entered a world where if we somehow recruit an exceptional talent, we can only expect to have him for one, maybe two years before he "moves up" to a P5 team where he can play immediately. So maybe our strategy should be to recruit freshman projects who might be more content to sit while they are coached up to contribute as juniors/seniors, while filling the roster with P5 players who want to "move down" for playing time, or D2 players who want to move up. I suppose that could lead to some decent teams, particularly if the other MVC teams have the same experience, but I fear the days of following a Rowdy or an Alec for four years, guys who potentially could lead the team to the dance may be over.
Quote from: valpotx on April 14, 2021, 07:29:08 PMQuote from: NativeCheesehead on April 14, 2021, 04:44:42 PMThe sit-a-year rule for MBB and football officially gone. https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/31258180/ncaa-allow-transfers-play-college-football-basketball-sitting-season-report-says (https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/31258180/ncaa-allow-transfers-play-college-football-basketball-sitting-season-report-says)
Honestly, it seemed like this was already the case for mid-majors a few years back. If you transferred up to a P5, you were likely to get a 'hardship waiver.' This just makes it official.
As a Valpo fan I don't like it, but I actually agree with it. If a kid is in a bad situation or has a chance to better himself or whatever the reason they have, they should have the freedom to move without the punishment of sitting a year and having that force their hand. Now the flip side is that this will be abused by both other schools and the student athletes and create a mess, but freedom can be messy. It will work itself out in time.
Quote from: VUBBFan on April 12, 2021, 10:35:15 PMJust because a wrong statement is said over and over does not make it true,
There's a certain ex-president and his political cronies who I wish could recognize this. They can't.
Quote from: vu72 on April 14, 2021, 09:44:15 AM
Quote from: valpotx on April 13, 2021, 11:34:44 PMI like MLB, but found this comment funny. MLB is the best AD we've had...out of 2 total in the last 30-35 years
Actually it's 2 in the last 42 years and only 3 in the last 64 years!
Does anybody remember when John Krause was AD? I do.
Quote from: bbtds on April 14, 2021, 11:15:58 PM
Quote from: vu72 on April 14, 2021, 09:44:15 AM
Quote from: valpotx on April 13, 2021, 11:34:44 PMI like MLB, but found this comment funny. MLB is the best AD we've had...out of 2 total in the last 30-35 years
Actually it's 2 in the last 42 years and only 3 in the last 64 years!
Does anybody remember when John Krause was AD? I do.
I only go as far back as when Bill Steinbrecher and his family lived in Wehrenberg Hall. In exchange for serving a faculty member on site they were given free lodging -- an important supplement to his meager salary.
Quote from: VUSWIM08-12 on April 14, 2021, 05:25:40 PM
Who is this Trevor Anderson guy that transferred from Wisconsin ? Seems like a good get, but I know nothing about him!
The press release say he was Mr. Basketball in Wisconsin for 2016. I know Bryce was a Mr. Basketball but have we had any others?
Good to see the transfers have signed their letters of intent. Should be an improvement over last years 3 point shooting along with the incoming freshmen. But still very concerned about rebounding and interior defense. With only Ben a proven inside presence and only Emil being the only backup we could have a very serious problem. I know some have posted that hopefully a transfer or two will solve that problem but i wonder if the athletic department will go along with 2 more scholarship players since we already have 13. True that Gordon and Morgan do not count towards the scholarship allotment but will the athletic department go along with the money for the extra players. Oh to have JO change his mind. i Wonder if some of the issues that JO was concerned about have left the program. Its still early in the signing period but quality big men are moving along fast and there was no hint in Matt's statement yesterday that they are pursuing any more players.
From what i've understood from those closer to the program they're still out there looking. Also JO was the last one to declare so my thought is that if there was a singular individual or individuals he didn't like they're still on the team. Also we don't know exactly what the main reason for him leaving was and just because one or two things change doesn't mean that's the one that's gonna sway him to come back.
JO sealed his fate the minute he publicly trashed the head coach and the university. He's history.
One thing that I haven't noticed mentioned is that some transfers occur because the player has been told that his playing time will be reduced.
Quote"The decision to come to Valpo really came down to Coach Lottich and the relationship that I've built with him," Anderson said. "He seems to have his players' best interests at heart through and through. Coach Bowen was an important factor as well because when he was at Minnesota Duluth, I had three or four buddies play for him, and he got rave reviews as a coach and as a person. They will have my back for this final year of basketball and in my life moving forward."
"Valpo was very transparent, honest and trustworthy with me through the recruiting process," Taylor said. "Coach Lottich was with me from the start as soon as I entered the portal. I made it hard on him because I asked a lot of questions about how I would fit, and he didn't give up on me and was willing to explain his vision in great detail. Joining Valpo's program will present me with a new challenge. It felt right, and I'm excited to be a part of Valpo Basketball."
I think it is very interesting to hear two 5th year mature players coming onto the team saying these things about our program and staff. Is it that their expectations are more tempered by their experience and age?
Certainly refreshing to hear the positive comments. However, I think it's too soon. If you go car shopping and choose a salesman/dealership, of course you're going to say good things about the experience and why you chose them.
People are transferring out early in their careers. I can't help but wonder if there is a difference between what is being pitched during recruitments and reality after being on campus, whatever that may be. Hopefully these player are still making positive public comments once their playing days are over.
And we better be looking for interior help yet. We're an upper D1 program. If there's spots to fill, you go fill them if a player can make the team better. The cost of a scholarship is relatively low and easily recoupable if the spot fixes a glaring issue. If they aren't filled, it will be another frustrating decision.
Quote from: VUBBFan on April 12, 2021, 10:35:15 PMThe preceding Bold statements are incorrect or misleading as fact checked by an independent third party. There are many programs that have more transfers than Valpo (19) over the past 5 years 92017-2021. Following is a partial list of schools that had more (did not include ties) transfers than Valpo's 19. I quit when I got to the letter I cause I got tiered so it is only about 1/3 of the way though the alphabet, but enough to challenge the writer's assumptions:
Akron 21
Albany 24
Bryant 21
Central Conn St 21
Chattanooga 20
Cleveland St 20
Detroit Mercy 23
DePaul 23
Eastern Michigan 21
ETSU 20
Fairfield 20
Florida Gulf Coast 22
Idaho 23
Just because a wrong statement is said over and over does not make it true, but the longer it goes on unchallenged, the more people begin to think that it is true.
I just wanted to also point out that the 19 transfers cited above includes at least one none scholarship player and according to my research a player by the name of John Middleton who supposedly transferred from Valpo to Palm Beach State College. I have never heard of this player and can not see any evidence that he was on the roster in 2017, so that would put our number at 17 not 19, 18 if you want to include Steve Helm.
I am sure that most on the forum believe me to be in the "keep Lottich camp". I would say that I just want posters to understand more of the complexities that go into putting a college team together and if that makes me a member of that camp then so be it. However, I do find the JO transfer disturbing for a number of reasons.
- I did think that this was the perfect fit for a higher level Lutheran kid to come and play ball for the "National Lutheran University"
- This seems to signal that the environment was not what I thought it was or perhaps should be
- Something very disturbing must have happened either on the academic/campus side or in the basketball program. I am not sure how a freshman could make this decision in a year when everything was so abnormal and not say to themselves "I need to stick this out and see what a normal season is like" unless things were just unpalatable
I hope Matt, the staff and the school in general are doing an evaluation in regards to the reasons for JO's transfer.
Quote from: FWalum on April 16, 2021, 02:37:05 PM
Quote from: VUBBFan on April 12, 2021, 10:35:15 PMThe preceding Bold statements are incorrect or misleading as fact checked by an independent third party. There are many programs that have more transfers than Valpo (19) over the past 5 years 92017-2021. Following is a partial list of schools that had more (did not include ties) transfers than Valpo's 19. I quit when I got to the letter I cause I got tiered so it is only about 1/3 of the way though the alphabet, but enough to challenge the writer's assumptions:
Akron 21
Albany 24
Bryant 21
Central Conn St 21
Chattanooga 20
Cleveland St 20
Detroit Mercy 23
DePaul 23
Eastern Michigan 21
ETSU 20
Fairfield 20
Florida Gulf Coast 22
Idaho 23
Just because a wrong statement is said over and over does not make it true, but the longer it goes on unchallenged, the more people begin to think that it is true.
I just wanted to also point out that the 19 transfers cited above includes at least one none scholarship player and according to my research a player by the name of John Middleton who supposedly transferred from Valpo to Palm Beach State College. I have never heard of this player and can not see any evidence that he was on the roster in 2017, so that would put our number at 17 not 19, 18 if you want to include Steve Helm.
I am sure that most on the forum believe me to be in the "keep Lottich camp". I would say that I just want posters to understand more of the complexities that go into putting a college team together and if that makes me a member of that camp then so be it. However, I do find the JO transfer disturbing for a number of reasons.
- I did think that this was the perfect fit for a higher level Lutheran kid to come and play ball for the "National Lutheran University"
- This seems to signal that the environment was not what I thought it was or perhaps should be
- Something very disturbing must have happened either on the academic/campus side or in the basketball program. I am not sure how a freshman could make this decision in a year when everything was so abnormal and not say to themselves "I need to stick this out and see what a normal season is like" unless things were just unpalatable
I hope Matt, the staff and the school in general are doing an evaluation in regards to the reasons for JO's transfer.
Counting non-scholarship players like Steve Helm and whoever the other guy that no one ever heard of makes about as much sense as counting a student manager. And, as '72 keeps saying, counting Mileek and Robinson who in any other year would be done anyway and who no one in their right mind would want them as part of next year's roster is equally senseless, but whatever it takes to paint a dark picture, right naysayers?
naysayers? We won 8 games.
Quote from: Chairback on April 16, 2021, 05:50:15 PM
naysayers? We won 8 games.
Until the switch to the MVC, Valpo had a proud winning tradition and a national reputation as an elite mid major program. Believe me, I understand the frustration about what has happened since. I also agree that "the buck stops here" when it comes to holding the head coach responsible for where we are.
What I don't agree with is how certain posters in expressing their frustrations about where we are have made up facts and spun narratives to show Matt in the worst possible light. Someone went so far as to call Matt a used car salesman that distorts the truth when talking to recruits. Others with a similar mind set signaled their approval with "likes." That's character assassination. It's also potentially damaging to the program whether people like to admit it or not.
These are the "naysayers" to whom I'm referring. Anyone who fits in that shoe, feel free to wear it. Anyone who doesn't, which applies to most, this isn't about you.
Someone else has found a new home.
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1383231705901780994
Good for him! I wish him the best of luck! Maybe we can and should play them starting at the ARC so the fans can give him the senior day sendoff he missed out on last year. I know we shouldn't make the OOC schedule all MAC teams but this is an important exception. I thought that players could only play for their own school for the extra year of eligibility and weren't allowed to use it in a transfer. I guess I was misinformed on that.
Nope if they stay at their school their scholarship doesn't count against the 13. Which is why we could have 15 scholarship players next year if Zion also stays and we fill our other two spots
Quote from: VUBBFan on April 16, 2021, 08:38:37 PM
Someone else has found a new home.
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1383231705901780994
I just noticed on Paul's Twitter feed that he is suffering a debilitating reaction to COVID shot no. 2. My best for a speedy recovery, Paul!
A former Valpo recruit lands with Bryce
https://twitter.com/iamwalterellis/status/1383227680393367555?s=21
Congrats to Mileek, and I think that is a great school for him to land, in order to get playing time. He wouldn't have played much at a higher level program.
Walter Ellis is the son of LaPhonso, who always seemed to have an affinity for Valpo.
Quote from: wh on April 16, 2021, 03:52:25 PM
Quote from: FWalum on April 16, 2021, 02:37:05 PM
Quote from: VUBBFan on April 12, 2021, 10:35:15 PMThe preceding Bold statements are incorrect or misleading as fact checked by an independent third party. There are many programs that have more transfers than Valpo (19) over the past 5 years 92017-2021. Following is a partial list of schools that had more (did not include ties) transfers than Valpo's 19. I quit when I got to the letter I cause I got tiered so it is only about 1/3 of the way though the alphabet, but enough to challenge the writer's assumptions:
Akron 21
Albany 24
Bryant 21
Central Conn St 21
Chattanooga 20
Cleveland St 20
Detroit Mercy 23
DePaul 23
Eastern Michigan 21
ETSU 20
Fairfield 20
Florida Gulf Coast 22
Idaho 23
Just because a wrong statement is said over and over does not make it true, but the longer it goes on unchallenged, the more people begin to think that it is true.
I just wanted to also point out that the 19 transfers cited above includes at least one none scholarship player and according to my research a player by the name of John Middleton who supposedly transferred from Valpo to Palm Beach State College. I have never heard of this player and can not see any evidence that he was on the roster in 2017, so that would put our number at 17 not 19, 18 if you want to include Steve Helm.
I am sure that most on the forum believe me to be in the "keep Lottich camp". I would say that I just want posters to understand more of the complexities that go into putting a college team together and if that makes me a member of that camp then so be it. However, I do find the JO transfer disturbing for a number of reasons.
- I did think that this was the perfect fit for a higher level Lutheran kid to come and play ball for the "National Lutheran University"
- This seems to signal that the environment was not what I thought it was or perhaps should be
- Something very disturbing must have happened either on the academic/campus side or in the basketball program. I am not sure how a freshman could make this decision in a year when everything was so abnormal and not say to themselves "I need to stick this out and see what a normal season is like" unless things were just unpalatable
I hope Matt, the staff and the school in general are doing an evaluation in regards to the reasons for JO's transfer.
Counting non-scholarship players like Steve Helm and whoever the other guy that no one ever heard of makes about as much sense as counting a student manager. And, as '72 keeps saying, counting Mileek and Robinson who in any other year would be done anyway and who no one in their right mind would want them as part of next year's roster is equally senseless, but whatever it takes to paint a dark picture, right naysayers?
Because the picture isn't dark all on its own??
I sincerely hope this team is better going forward, as we all do, but they've basically blown since switching conferences. Try to get over it.
Im curious why counting Mileek and Robinson into the numbers is senseless? (Whether we want them back is another question). It was a possibility for them to come back, and we are going to be playing other teams next year who brought some players back for their extra year, so I don't understand the reasoning that in a normal year they would be gone so its okay. (Look at Butler, all five seniors are returning for their extra year.) With them not counting against the scholarship limit, there's no reason *not* to bring them back if for no other reason than for depth and experience. But in any fashion, there was a decision to move on and it may have been mutual for all that I know. But to me, they definitely get counted as people leaving. I agree with the Steve Helm reasoning.
We're all here because we are invested and enjoy VU MBB. I think it's fair that we have all been frustrated with the last few seasons, and we all want the team and university to have success. Differences in opinions lead to healthy debate and discussion. As a whole, there are people who believe the current regime will get it done, there are some who don't, and a lot in the middle who fluctuate. With the current state of the program and recent results on the court, I think all three sides have valid reasonings to support their stance as well.
As others have said, Western Michigan is a great spot for Mileek. The top of the MAC always has quality teams/talent; unfortunately for the MAC, their bottom teams are definitely bottom teams. Should be a great experience for him and still close enough his family can get to some games.
I wouldn't say counting senior transfers as "senseless", but I also don't think their leaving is a black mark against the program.This is an opportunity to try something different than a small school. Both Eron and Zion transferred to Valpo so they already had an alternative experience -- and appreciate the value of Valpo. Mileek was here for four years. This is all he has had a chance to experience. I'm happy for him and wish him nothing but the best.
https://twitter.com/jakelieberman2/status/1383436382845038594?s=21
Illinois State's DJ Horne lands at Arizona State
Quote from: valpotx on April 17, 2021, 12:14:23 AMCongrats to Mileek, and I think that is a great school for him to land, in order to get playing time.
Not a bad choice in a sideways or down move. Fresh start, short family drive to Kalamazoo, equally good conference and hopefully he will regain playing time. On the other hand they were 4-16 overall with a 299 NET. They are a close D-1 and we have met maybe twice in recent years? :crazy:
Quote from: valpopal on April 14, 2021, 02:48:34 PM
Quote from: nkvu on April 09, 2021, 11:29:48 AM
I also hope we can get a big through the portal. I'm really getting tired of getting out rebounded constantly.
I understand this is a priority, and I am expecting it to be addressed in the near future.
And here it is: this is the big I'd been advised to watch:
[tweet]1383930887411146759[/tweet]
Chose us over Indiana, Nebraska, and Clemson. Averaged 2.4 points and 2.5 rebounds per game for MSU this year. Played in 29 games and started 14 of them. Only payed 10 minutes per game as a part time starter though...interesting. Says he is a good defender. Averages about 10 and 10 per 40 minutes. Very confusing stat line of starting 14 goes but only averaging 10 mins per game, 2.4 points, and 2.5 rebounds. Not really sure what to make of that but very excited to see it!
Quote from: valpopal on April 18, 2021, 07:08:42 PM
Quote from: valpopal on April 14, 2021, 02:48:34 PM
Quote from: nkvu on April 09, 2021, 11:29:48 AM
I also hope we can get a big through the portal. I'm really getting tired of getting out rebounded constantly.
I understand this is a priority, and I am expecting it to be addressed in the near future.
And here it is: this is the big I'd been advised to watch:
[tweet]1383930887411146759[/tweet]
Not bad... He should put up pretty decent numbers on pretty good minutes in the MVC. I like this addition! How many years of eligibility for him? Two with the extra COVID year right?
Is he the "player to be named (much) later" for Brandon Wood?
Let's hope that this is a good move for everyone.
Replacing Siggy, Sackey, Clay and JO with Anderson, Taylor, Kithier seems to be no worse than a wash in terms of talent and quite possibly a net positive.
Quote from: mj on April 18, 2021, 09:08:20 PMReplacing Siggy, Sackey, Clay and JO with Anderson, Taylor, Kithier seems to be no worse than a wash in terms of talent and quite possibly a net positive.
Factor in the recruiting class and I think I can get behind this statement assuming they're as good as advertised. Our guard play and shooting should be way better our rebounding should be better and as long as our defense is at least as good we should be a better team. I don't know if we're top of the MVC good but a solid probably avoiding Thursday team is a reasonable expectation right now. We still have one more scholarship. I'm interested to see how we use it. (my fingers are crossed somewhat for a JO return but if that's not going to happen I wouldn't mind another big or a veteran wing.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 18, 2021, 09:23:56 PM
Quote from: mj on April 18, 2021, 09:08:20 PMReplacing Siggy, Sackey, Clay and JO with Anderson, Taylor, Kithier seems to be no worse than a wash in terms of talent and quite possibly a net positive.
Factor in the recruiting class and I think I can get behind this statement assuming they're as good as advertised. Our guard play and shooting should be way better our rebounding should be better and as long as our defense is at least as good we should be a better team. I don't know if we're top of the MVC good but a solid probably avoiding Thursday team is a reasonable expectation right now. We still have one more scholarship. I'm interested to see how we use it. (my fingers are crossed somewhat for a JO return but if that's not going to happen I wouldn't mind another big or a veteran wing.
If JO is allowed to return, I will lose all confidence in Matt's leadership ability.
Quote from: vok22 on April 18, 2021, 07:18:49 PM
Chose us over Indiana, Nebraska, and Clemson. Averaged 2.4 points and 2.5 rebounds per game for MSU this year. Played in 29 games and started 14 of them. Only payed 10 minutes per game as a part time starter though...interesting. Says he is a good defender. Averages about 10 and 10 per 40 minutes. Very confusing stat line of starting 14 goes but only averaging 10 mins per game, 2.4 points, and 2.5 rebounds. Not really sure what to make of that but very excited to see it!
I think Kithier will be a good get for VU. He is a hustler, and was decent offensively in the BIG. One down side is his propensity to committing fouls. As you might expect, I am looking forward to seeing him playing at VU.
JO isn't returning. Stop buying into this narrative.
I hope Kithier brings the Michigan State rebounding margin attitude to Valpo. I really hope it rubs off on us.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Kithier seems like a quick 6'7/6'8 guy. Short video snippets, but if he can give us 2/3 the effort that KVW brought, I like this addition a lot.
One of the best balanced articles I could find on Kithier. I think he will do fine at Valpo. He does everything he's asked, he hustles, (Big Jake Diebler) and he is a finisher around the rim.
Michigan State Men's Basketball 2020-2021 Report Card: Thomas Kithier
https://www.theonlycolors.com/2021/4/10/22375124/michigan-state-spartans-basketball-2020-2021-report-card-thomas-kithier
QuoteTHE GOOD
During his junior year, Thomas Kithier was basically the same player he has always been at Michigan State. And this is someone who does quite a few things very well in his rather limited role. The big man always plays with a lot of energy and hustle, puts his body on the line and never shies away from doing the "dirty work." He gives 100 percent effort every time he's out on the floor and you can count on him not making a lot of mental mistakes. Kithier in general is a very smart player, he understands concepts, how to position himself or what the team needs him to do at any given moment. Things like setting screens, moving the ball swiftly, getting open underneath the basket (shoutout to "The Invisible Man") or putting pressure on the opponent by running the floor are all traits that don't look that impressive at first glance, or don't always show up on the stat sheet, yet help a team a ton beyond the box score. It's probably the reason why Kithier started 14 out of 26 games he played in during the 2020-2021 campaign.
Kithier was a strong offensive rebounder this past season, and gained MSU plenty of extra possessions with his work down low. He continued to finish at a very high rate whenever the ball found him in the paint, even if it seemed that he missed some bunnies at times. Over the last offseason, Kithier must have worked a ton on his free throw shooting as he upped his average from 46.2 percent as a sophomore to almost 77 percent as a junior. This is an impressive feat, even if it came at a very small sample size of just 13 shots taken.
THE BAD
Unfortunately, in terms of his weaknesses, Kithier has been just as consistent as he has been with the things he does well. He basically remains the same kind of player he was as a freshman and hasn't truly developed a great deal over the course of three years. As a junior, he still was a very limited player athletically and that hampered his chances for more impactful minutes. Kithier just isn't strong enough to really keep big bodies out of the paint nor is he athletic enough to challenge opponents at the rim. Even with all his instincts and a strong basketball IQ, he struggled to consistently make his presence felt on either end of the floor. Instead, his lack of foot speed, size and strength often forced MSU into a disadvantage up front and it made it hard for certain lineups to really impose their will on the opposing team.
On offense, Kithier just has never developed any kind of game outside of close range and at times even gets desperate to get rid of the ball as soon as it finds his hands. That makes it extremely tough on his teammates, as the Spartans sometimes had to operate four on five with him out there, even if he creates the occasional space by cutting smartly. On defense, Kithier's lack of physical traits has forced him to work extremely hard for positioning, often resulting in early foul trouble (2.4 fouls in just about 11 minutes per game, and 8.8 fouls per 40 minutes). Over the course of the year, Kithier's minutes were reduced, and toward the end of the season he was barely part of the rotation.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 18, 2021, 09:23:56 PMQuote from: mj on April 18, 2021, 09:08:20 PMReplacing Siggy, Sackey, Clay and JO with Anderson, Taylor, Kithier seems to be no worse than a wash in terms of talent and quite possibly a net positive.
Factor in the recruiting class and I think I can get behind this statement assuming they're as good as advertised. Our guard play and shooting should be way better our rebounding should be better and as long as our defense is at least as good we should be a better team. I don't know if we're top of the MVC good but a solid probably avoiding Thursday team is a reasonable expectation right now. We still have one more scholarship. I'm interested to see how we use it. (my fingers are crossed somewhat for a JO return but if that's not going to happen I wouldn't mind another big or a veteran wing.
Maybe I am in the minority here but I hope we do not use that last scholarship (unless there is an absolute home run or a true project that we don't expect to play right away). Just because we have it doesn't mean we should use it. We are already at 14 scholarships and minutes will be hard to allocate. One of my biggest gripes about Lottich is his rotations and I worry trying to spread minutes to 15 people will be a challenge (already a challenge at 13).
Quote from: vuny98 on April 19, 2021, 08:33:05 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 18, 2021, 09:23:56 PMQuote from: mj on April 18, 2021, 09:08:20 PMReplacing Siggy, Sackey, Clay and JO with Anderson, Taylor, Kithier seems to be no worse than a wash in terms of talent and quite possibly a net positive.
Factor in the recruiting class and I think I can get behind this statement assuming they're as good as advertised. Our guard play and shooting should be way better our rebounding should be better and as long as our defense is at least as good we should be a better team. I don't know if we're top of the MVC good but a solid probably avoiding Thursday team is a reasonable expectation right now. We still have one more scholarship. I'm interested to see how we use it. (my fingers are crossed somewhat for a JO return but if that's not going to happen I wouldn't mind another big or a veteran wing.
Maybe I am in the minority here but I hope we do not use that last scholarship (unless there is an absolute home run or a true project that we don't expect to play right away). Just because we have it doesn't mean we should use it. We are already at 14 scholarships and minutes will be hard to allocate. One of my biggest gripes about Lottich is his rotations and I worry trying to spread minutes to 15 people will be a challenge (already a challenge at 13).
To me it comes down to whether Emil will be a contributor next year or not. If so, we could get by with three bigs and we could play two together. With just two you have a problem rotation wise, unless Matt sees four guards and one big on the floor at all times. If the four guards can all shoot this might work on offense, but on defense one of the guards will have to guard the 4. Maybe Goodnews could do that, but I think the others would struggle. Yes Young has the height, but he has a high jumpers body and they don't call him "Slim" for nothing. We would be at a disadvantage on the boards almost every game. I would feel better if we could pick up another decent big to shore up the rotation, but if we can't then we need Emile to really step up.
Quote from: nkvu on April 19, 2021, 09:08:08 AMQuote from: vuny98 on April 19, 2021, 08:33:05 AMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on April 18, 2021, 09:23:56 PMQuote from: mj on April 18, 2021, 09:08:20 PMReplacing Siggy, Sackey, Clay and JO with Anderson, Taylor, Kithier seems to be no worse than a wash in terms of talent and quite possibly a net positive.
Factor in the recruiting class and I think I can get behind this statement assuming they're as good as advertised. Our guard play and shooting should be way better our rebounding should be better and as long as our defense is at least as good we should be a better team. I don't know if we're top of the MVC good but a solid probably avoiding Thursday team is a reasonable expectation right now. We still have one more scholarship. I'm interested to see how we use it. (my fingers are crossed somewhat for a JO return but if that's not going to happen I wouldn't mind another big or a veteran wing.
Maybe I am in the minority here but I hope we do not use that last scholarship (unless there is an absolute home run or a true project that we don't expect to play right away). Just because we have it doesn't mean we should use it. We are already at 14 scholarships and minutes will be hard to allocate. One of my biggest gripes about Lottich is his rotations and I worry trying to spread minutes to 15 people will be a challenge (already a challenge at 13).
To me it comes down to whether Emil will be a contributor next year or not. If so, we could get by with three bigs and we could play two together. With just two you have a problem rotation wise, unless Matt sees four guards and one big on the floor at all times. If the four guards can all shoot this might work on offense, but on defense one of the guards will have to guard the 4. Maybe Goodnews could do that, but I think the others would struggle. Yes Young has the height, but he has a high jumpers body and they don't call him "Slim" for nothing. We would be at a disadvantage on the boards almost every game. I would feel better if we could pick up another decent big to shore up the rotation, but if we can't then we need Emile to really step up.
Fair point. I do think Taylor fills this gap a bit though. At 6'5" and 220 lbs, hes got some size and has shown he can rebound pretty well at his last school. Gordon has also shown he can rebound well from the guard position. Anything out of Emil would be great. I have no idea about the Freshman, but Woodward may be the only one that can play inside out of the bunch.
Charlie Moore (DePaul) to Miami, so assuming JFL stays at DePaul, he may get what he wants, which is a large focus on him in the offense.
Chris Vogt in the portal, now that Brannan is out. He has really cemented himself as a P5 player, after leaving NKU as really just a guy with height. He will get some high major looks.
https://www.verbalcommits.com/players/chris-vogt
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/stats/_/id/4279252/chris-vogt
If you think we have problems, how about the mess at DePaul. Sure would like to know how JFL really feels down deep about his move.
Cool to see BWood chime in:
https://twitter.com/BrandonWood30/status/1384158780921839621
Quote from: nkvu on April 19, 2021, 09:08:08 AMTo me it comes down to whether Emil will be a contributor next year or not.
I think we have forgotten that there were several games his Freshman year in November were he played significant minutes and really contributed and then the injuries started. I think that he can contribute, for me the question is can he be healthy enough. The first two seasons don't bode well in answering that question in the affirmative.
We seem to have some very strong additions coming in. I hope that everyone gels early in the season. The veteran leadership from the guys coming in with 1 season remaining, could be vital to our success next season.
I meant to post this earlier, but didn't know exactly where it should go. Its a fun little tool that looks at the statistical changes expected by adding transfers.
https://barttorvik.com/rostercast.php?team=Valparaiso&run=1&player=&transfers=&seniors=&recruits=&everyone=
People who follow Michigan State seem to believe that there's a strong chance their Guard Transfer Foster Loyer may also be heading our way.
Quote from: crusader05 on April 20, 2021, 08:58:23 AMPeople who follow Michigan State seem to believe that there's a strong chance their Guard Transfer Foster Loyer may also be heading our way.
We are very guard heavy, I wonder why they all believe that. He would be a great addition though. Not a huge scorer but should be able to play the point well.
My guess is some of it is just because we already picked up one transfer. But there were some who claimed to have "knowledge" that he is coming to us.
We are guard heavy but we also have had the worst luck in guards. Maybe the staff is trying not to put too many eggs in the freshman basket and are hoping some veteran guards can help them grow?
He's a 4 star out of high school and was playing in the big 10. Who on our roster would really scare him from playing time if he was interested in coming here?
And thats the beauty of the MVC. Assuming he or someone wants to "drop down a level" but wants to stay somewhat close to home (he's from Michigan), what are the other options? The A10 really isn't based out of the Midwest and the MVC is ahead of the horizon, MAC, etc. Still have a great chance of making a run in the NCAAT if you get there... with all of the p5 schools in the area/state, I think these types of players are exactly the type of players to target. Valpo has strong academics. If we can get to winning consistently, we have the ability to become a very attractive landing spots for transfers.
With that said, I prefer a big other than a guard, but trust the staff to get the best players available for our needs. Interested to see if there's fire to the smoke.
Quote from: elephtheria47 on April 20, 2021, 10:03:05 AM
He's a 4 star out of high school and was playing in the big 10. Who on our roster would really scare him from playing time if he was interested in coming here?
And thats the beauty of the MVC. Assuming he or someone wants to "drop down a level" but wants to stay somewhat close to home (he's from Michigan), what are the other options? The A10 really isn't based out of the Midwest and the MVC is ahead of the horizon, MAC, etc. Still have a great chance of making a run in the NCAAT if you get there... with all of the p5 schools in the area/state, I think these types of players are exactly the type of players to target. Valpo has strong academics. If we can get to winning consistently, we have the ability to become a very attractive landing spots for transfers.
With that said, I prefer a big other than a guard, but trust the staff to get the best players available for our needs. Interested to see if there's fire to the smoke.
Loyer will get plenty of playing time if he arrives on the scene, and other players won't. 15 players (including a glut of guards) will eventually turn into an 8-man rotation with table scraps for the other 7. There's nothing wrong with that. It's what everyone's trying to do - find an experienced hired gun through the portal that will have an immediate impact. But, it will breed a lot of discontent, especially among younger, less experienced players. A year from now, many of them will be in the portal. It's what the experts are referring to as the new normal. As obvious as that should be to most of us, I want our interminable program critics (you know, the only ones who really care about winning) to get prepared to blame Matt again when a new crop of players pull out a year from now.
Quote from: wh on April 20, 2021, 10:56:24 AMLoyer will get plenty of playing time if he arrives on the scene, and other players won't.
Exactly! This is why I am so uncertain as to his overall long term value. My instincts have me leaning toward no.
Quote from: justducky on April 20, 2021, 11:37:07 AM
Quote from: wh on April 20, 2021, 10:56:24 AMLoyer will get plenty of playing time if he arrives on the scene, and other players won't.
Exactly! This is why I am so uncertain as to his overall long term value. My instincts have me leaning toward no.
I agree, I think we have more than enough guards and it is going to be hard to share playing time as it is. No matter what happens, we will lose young players next year to transfer, but I feel like we have a decent balance now. I think if the experienced transfers can lead us to a solid, winning season, while still giving enough playing time to the freshmen, we could show them that VU can win in the Valley while still convincing them to stick around. Adding another guard to the mix now, unless it was an absolute star, feels like it would just be taking away time from people that might need it if we want them to stick around.
Posters have repeatedly said that at the end of the day Matt's future as head coach comes down to wins and losses. That said, I think the choice is easy. Get the best players you can get and win as many games as you can win. Lose some number of dissatisfied players thereafter and recruit the portal again next year. That's how AAU and youth and adult leagues of every sport work. Play for today and worry about tomorrow tomorrow.
The other thought behind bringing in another guard could be that 1. We are going to l have at least 3 of our guards for sure be gone after next year leaving us with only Edwards and Goodnews with more than one year under their belt. bringing in another experienced Guard with 2 years left could help make sure we are balancing it out in case any of our freshman guards struggle.
As far as playing time goes it's not like we haven't seen people leave after getting significant playing time or limited playing time so predicating what might make people want to leave is probably a fools errand. This Foster kid also seems to have strong leadership skills that might be beneficial to step in as we did seem to have a slight vacuum in on court leadership when we lost Kiser
Quote from: wh on April 20, 2021, 01:07:19 PM
Posters have repeatedly said that at the end of the day Matt's future as head coach comes down to wins and losses. That said, I think the choice is easy. Get the best players you can get and win as many games as you can win. Lose some number of dissatisfied players thereafter and recruit the portal again next year. That's how AAU and youth and adult leagues of every sport work. Play for today and worry about tomorrow tomorrow.
Well argued even when or if you are just playing devil's advocate :)
I really don't want another huge wave of transfers especially among the young guards who are showing so much promise... I would much prefer we get a big man with our last available scholarship. We could definitely use the help up front much more than another candidate at the PG position.
I highly doubt Loyer is in the cards. Heard the speculation myself. My guess is that Valpo aims big with final scholarship. It is the need remaining. These positions aren't definite and the players are in no particular order.
PG: Anderson, Morgan, DeAveiro
SG: Edwards, Gordon, Taylor, Palesse
SF: Barrett, Kpegeol, Young, Woodyard,
PF: Krikke,
C: Kithier, Freese-Vilien
Walk-on: Ruedinger, Pappas, Morrill, Fricke
Do we have confirmation that Morgan is coming back? I am still surprised that Goodnews did not enter the portal. It seemed like he and Lottich did not gel, but maybe it was more tied to injuries (low PT at times)?
Quote from: valpotx on April 20, 2021, 06:03:17 PMDo we have confirmation that Morgan is coming back? I am still surprised that Goodnews did not enter the portal. It seemed like he and Lottich did not gel, but maybe it was more tied to injuries (low PT at times)?
I have seen no confirmation either and have wondered about this myself but I think if Paul put him in the depth chart then it's a pretty safe bet he's coming back.
Quote from: Pgmado on April 20, 2021, 05:15:08 PM
I highly doubt Loyer is in the cards. Heard the speculation myself. My guess is that Valpo aims big with final scholarship. It is the need remaining. These positions aren't definite and the players are in no particular order.
PG: Anderson, Morgan, DeAveiro
SG: Edwards, Gordon, Taylor, Palesse
SF: Barrett, Kpegeol, Young, Woodyard,
PF: Krikke,
C: Kithier, Freese-Vilien
Walk-on: Ruedinger, Pappas, Morrill, Fricke
If we see Kpegeol (SF) Krikke (PF) and Kithier (C) as an inside lineup, will we call that the "Special K" unit?
Quote from: valpopal on April 20, 2021, 07:48:38 PM
Quote from: Pgmado on April 20, 2021, 05:15:08 PM
I highly doubt Loyer is in the cards. Heard the speculation myself. My guess is that Valpo aims big with final scholarship. It is the need remaining. These positions aren't definite and the players are in no particular order.
PG: Anderson, Morgan, DeAveiro
SG: Edwards, Gordon, Taylor, Palesse
SF: Barrett, Kpegeol, Young, Woodyard,
PF: Krikke,
C: Kithier, Freese-Vilien
Walk-on: Ruedinger, Pappas, Morrill, Fricke
If we see Kpegeol (SF) Krikke (PF) and Kithier (C) as an inside lineup, will we call that the "Special K" unit?
Yeah...we probably don't want to be looping in those last name first letters in any special way......
Quote from: Pgmado on April 20, 2021, 05:15:08 PMI highly doubt Loyer is in the cards. Heard the speculation myself. My guess is that Valpo aims big with final scholarship. It is the need remaining. These positions aren't definite and the players are in no particular order. PG: Anderson, Morgan, DeAveiro SG: Edwards, Gordon, Taylor, Palesse SF: Barrett, Kpegeol, Young, Woodyard, PF: Krikke, C: Kithier, Freese-Vilien Walk-on: Ruedinger, Pappas, Morrill, Fricke
In a particular order I see It more like this:
PG: Anderson, Palesse, DeAverios
SG: Edwards, Barrett, Morgan
SG: Gordon, Young, Kpegeol
F: Krikke, Taylor, Woodward
F: Kithier, Freese-Villan
I see Taylor more of a SF than a G, and think he can fill in the role kind of how Kiser did. Hopefully Woodward can as well. Morgan could maybe fill in at PG if needed, but if the Freshmen play well I see him as the odd man out. If Young is as good as we hope, I could see him moving up over Gordon in the starting lineup. Goodnews will need to fight for minutes.
Freese-Villan is the wildcard here. If the coaches feel good that he can play, maybe we don't need to use that last scholarship. But if they have doubts (which they probably should based on his health track record) then another big body would help.
Right now I think things would pan out like this:
PG: Anderson, Gordon, Palesse/DeAverio
SG: Edwards, Palesse/Morgan, Goodness
SF: Taylor, Barrett/Woodyard/Young
PF: Krikke, Young/Woodyard
C: Kithier, Krikke, Emil
I think Taylor has the capability to be a go-to double digit scorer for us, honestly. Scored 21 ppg at D-2 level and not just on volume. I do admit it has been hard to find clips of him playing so I am not completely sure, just don think he regresses THAT far from 21 ppg with the jump up. Maybe I am overly optimistic but I could see him scoring 13 a game. I know Palesse and Young will definitely get minutes, so I am not sure how that is going to be divided up among everybody. All the sudden we have a lot of people on the team, and a lot of experience. But there is also a lot of young talent that needs to get playing time so it is going to be a real juggling and and there is not doubt that we will lose some really good talent next offseason, whether it is because they didnt perform up to expectations or (in the best case), there is simply too much young talent and not enough minutes.
Quote from: vok22 on April 21, 2021, 09:07:11 AMI think Taylor has the capability to be a go-to double digit scorer for us, honestly. Scored 21 ppg at D-2 level and not just on volume. I do admit it has been hard to find clips of him playing so I am not completely sure, just don think he regresses THAT far from 21 ppg with the jump up. Maybe I am overly optimistic but I could see him scoring 13 a game.
I should back this up by saying he scored 25 against Loyola in an exhibition his sophomore year. I know not apples to apples as they got blown out and he was probably fed the ball, but 25 points against Loyola is 25 points...he can score at this level.
Quote from: vok22 on April 21, 2021, 09:19:07 AMQuote from: vok22 on April 21, 2021, 09:07:11 AMI think Taylor has the capability to be a go-to double digit scorer for us, honestly. Scored 21 ppg at D-2 level and not just on volume. I do admit it has been hard to find clips of him playing so I am not completely sure, just don think he regresses THAT far from 21 ppg with the jump up. Maybe I am overly optimistic but I could see him scoring 13 a game.
I should back this up by saying he scored 25 against Loyola in an exhibition his sophomore year. I know not apples to apples as they got blown out and he was probably fed the ball, but 25 points against Loyola is 25 points...he can score at this level.
I did not know this... This is good and encouraging information... Thank you...
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 21, 2021, 09:23:10 AM
Quote from: vok22 on April 21, 2021, 09:19:07 AMQuote from: vok22 on April 21, 2021, 09:07:11 AMI think Taylor has the capability to be a go-to double digit scorer for us, honestly. Scored 21 ppg at D-2 level and not just on volume. I do admit it has been hard to find clips of him playing so I am not completely sure, just don think he regresses THAT far from 21 ppg with the jump up. Maybe I am overly optimistic but I could see him scoring 13 a game.
I should back this up by saying he scored 25 against Loyola in an exhibition his sophomore year. I know not apples to apples as they got blown out and he was probably fed the ball, but 25 points against Loyola is 25 points...he can score at this level.
I did not know this... This is good and encouraging information... Thank you...
I'll admit I didnt find this myself, think it was on POs twitter when he signed but not positive.
It seems everyone is saying we have 1 scholarship open. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe we have 3 open and available.
Currently we have 14 committed scholarship players on the roster. Of those, I believe 4 of them (Gordon, Morgan, Anderson, and Taylor) fall under the covid 5th year exemption and don't count against the 13 player limit. If this is the case that means we have filled 10 of the allowed 13, and have 3 spots left, if we wanted to fill them. Although that would really bloat the roster beyond a reasonable management level.
I would not expect us to use all 3, but I would like to know if my assumptions are correct. Can anyone help me out?
Quote from: VUBBFan on April 21, 2021, 09:49:01 AM
It seems everyone is saying we have 1 scholarship open. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe we have 3 open and available.
Currently we have 14 committed scholarship players on the roster. Of those, I believe 4 of them (Gordon, Morgan, Anderson, and Taylor) fall under the covid 5th year exemption and don't count against the 13 player limit. If this is the case that means we have filled 10 of the allowed 13, and have 3 spots left, if we wanted to fill them. Although that would really bloat the roster beyond a reasonable management level.
I would not expect us to use all 3, but I would like to know if my assumptions are correct. Can anyone help me out?
I believe only your own count as exemptions not those from other schools.
Quote from: IndyValpo on April 21, 2021, 10:01:32 AMQuote from: VUBBFan on April 21, 2021, 09:49:01 AMIt seems everyone is saying we have 1 scholarship open. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe we have 3 open and available. Currently we have 14 committed scholarship players on the roster. Of those, I believe 4 of them (Gordon, Morgan, Anderson, and Taylor) fall under the covid 5th year exemption and don't count against the 13 player limit. If this is the case that means we have filled 10 of the allowed 13, and have 3 spots left, if we wanted to fill them. Although that would really bloat the roster beyond a reasonable management level. I would not expect us to use all 3, but I would like to know if my assumptions are correct. Can anyone help me out?
I believe only your own count as exemptions not those from other schools.
That sounds right. I think I asked this question when I asked about whether Krutiwig and Williamson would be allowed to transfer to OU if they wanted to (I had mistakenly believed that they could ONLY play for LUC It turns out that that was wrong they CAN play for OU BUT OU would not benefit from their scholarships not counting against the cap in the same way Loyola would. I think this is the same thing here.
Yes as others have sad only players that stay with their team for their 5th year don't count. any new players coming in, even if they're using their fifth year of eligibility count towards the 13.
Quote from: crusader05 on April 20, 2021, 08:58:23 AM
People who follow Michigan State seem to believe that there's a strong chance their Guard Transfer Foster Loyer may also be heading our way.
Loyer was a great shooter in HS, and showed it only a little at State - I think that he lost confidence in his shot. He was lost when defending Big Ten guards, which was probably the main reason for his losing PT.
https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1385328883776606211
Quote from: crusader05 on April 22, 2021, 03:38:01 PM
https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1385328883776606211
As long as he doesn't want to play as a guard then I am probably good with it. ;D Sight and statistics unseen this likely says something about Emil as well.
Speculation on minute distribution can now officially begin.
Finally! Some size! No more getting outrebounded I hope with Kithier and Hedstrom to go with Krikke and Emil! Nice to know that if Emil still isn't ready to contribute we still likely won't be hurting! So there's our roster! Not too bad hopefully the transfers can make an immediate impact!
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 22, 2021, 03:52:10 PMFinally! Some size! No more getting outrebounded I hope with Kithier and Hedstrom to go with Krikke and Emil! Nice to know that if Emil still isn't ready to contribute we still likely won't be hurting! So there's our roster! Not too bad hopefully the transfers can make an immediate impact!
I mean, Hedstrom only played 1.7 mins a game in 9 games last year, so he may not be so ready to contribute much either. But he did shoot an amazing 100% from three last year (1 attempt).
He will be a nice big body to put into games and provide some rebounding and defense that's for sure. Any offense he provides will be a bonus. Also, he is only a sophomore, so we have him for two more years which is nice.
Also having more big bodies at practice is helpful for all playing the 4/5. Vashil credited having a year battling Gueye in practice was really helpful for his development.
I think this really opens up Ben and he is going be even better.
Hard to assess how much he will add. He only appeared in nine games for the Badgers, and those appearances were at the end of games. He only saw the court for a total of 29 minutes in his two seasons.
I gotta a feeling all those who were lamenting the transfer portal are now smiling broadly. We traded a productive 6'7" forward who couldn't shoot for a 6'5" guy who put 25 on Loyola as a sophomore and points to his three point shooting as a strength. Then we traded a 5'8" (maybe) point guard who couldn't shoot plus a walk-on point plus an often injured point who never played--for a Wisconsin Mr. Basketball who played regularly in the Big Ten. Then we traded a 6'8" guy who on occasion was decent in the paint for a 6'8" banger who started at Michigan State--and now, we add size with some Big Ten experience.
Oh yeah, the freshman coming in are pretty good from what I've read. ;D
Quote from: vuny98 on April 22, 2021, 03:59:10 PMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on April 22, 2021, 03:52:10 PMFinally! Some size! No more getting outrebounded I hope with Kithier and Hedstrom to go with Krikke and Emil! Nice to know that if Emil still isn't ready to contribute we still likely won't be hurting! So there's our roster! Not too bad hopefully the transfers can make an immediate impact!
I mean, Hedstrom only played 1.7 mins a game in 9 games last year, so he may not be so ready to contribute much either. But he did shoot an amazing 100% from three last year (1 attempt). He will be a nice big body to put into games and provide some rebounding and defense that's for sure. Any offense he provides will be a bonus. Also, he is only a sophomore, so we have him for two more years which is nice.
Isn't it three? This year doesn't count right?
Yep he has 3 years of eligibility
I'm not looking for much on offense from a 7 footer. Very few MVC teams have those. Rebound block shots and just score passably in the post and this will be just fine!
If this big dude can eat up some minutes, allowing Krikke to be more of a PF, it is very valuable.
Based strictly on Joe's WI stats, it's hard to imagine that he will make a significant contribution any time soon. That said, no one knows more about his potential than Trevor. Without his support, Joe wouldn't be here. That's good enough for me.
Until shown otherwise I'm picturing the 21-22 group as a witches brew of experimental chemistry which could implode, explode or be banned from the Valley before it ever takes the floor. :o
Stay tuned for further updates!
Quote from: wh on April 22, 2021, 05:10:41 PM
Based strictly on Joe's WI stats, it's hard to imagine that he will make a significant contribution any time soon. That said, no one knows more about his potential than Trevor. Without his support, Joe wouldn't be here. That's good enough for me.
I would take a similar track to this :):
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/cory-johnson-1.html
Quote from: wh on April 22, 2021, 05:10:41 PM
Based strictly on Joe's WI stats, it's hard to imagine that he will make a significant contribution any time soon. That said, no one knows more about his potential than Trevor. Without his support, Joe wouldn't be here. That's good enough for me.
I also wonder if there is a connection to Jarryd Nuness. They both went to Hopkins High.
Quote from: humbleopinion on April 22, 2021, 04:07:13 PM
Hard to assess how much he will add. He only appeared in nine games for the Badgers, and those appearances were at the end of games. He only saw the court for a total of 29 minutes in his two seasons.
He had a knee injury that ended his season last year in mid-December.
Arden Skogland also went to Hopkins.
Quote from: valpotx on April 22, 2021, 05:48:19 PM
Quote from: wh on April 22, 2021, 05:10:41 PM
Based strictly on Joe's WI stats, it's hard to imagine that he will make a significant contribution any time soon. That said, no one knows more about his potential than Trevor. Without his support, Joe wouldn't be here. That's good enough for me.
I would take a similar track to this :):
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/cory-johnson-1.html
If Hedstrom increases his time by a factor of three, he'll go from 1.7 minutes a game to 5 minutes a game. We really need at least 12 mpg
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If he comes anywhere close to Cory Johnson's level of production I will be beyond thrilled. I loved watching him when I was in school! Great player!
Quote from: RS on April 22, 2021, 06:38:28 PM
Arden Skogland also went to Hopkins.
Obviously not all of the players from Hopkins turn out to be great players, yet Hopkins has one of the best HS basketball programs in Minnesota. NBA players from Hopkins include Amir Coffey, Kris Humphries, and Zeke Nnaji. You also might have heard of Paige Bueckers (UConn.)
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 22, 2021, 04:33:25 PM
Quote from: vuny98 on April 22, 2021, 03:59:10 PMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on April 22, 2021, 03:52:10 PMFinally! Some size! No more getting outrebounded I hope with Kithier and Hedstrom to go with Krikke and Emil! Nice to know that if Emil still isn't ready to contribute we still likely won't be hurting! So there's our roster! Not too bad hopefully the transfers can make an immediate impact!
I mean, Hedstrom only played 1.7 mins a game in 9 games last year, so he may not be so ready to contribute much either. But he did shoot an amazing 100% from three last year (1 attempt). He will be a nice big body to put into games and provide some rebounding and defense that's for sure. Any offense he provides will be a bonus. Also, he is only a sophomore, so we have him for two more years which is nice.
Isn't it three? This year doesn't count right?
Doesn't he have 4 years remaining?
4 years of eligibility - Redshirt last year - Do-over this year = 4 years of eligibility remaining
https://youtube.com/watch?v=N7Ba_4VyCpw&feature=share
Knowing he could be a 4-year player for us has me a whole lot more curious about him. Joe averaged 10 PPG in his senior year. He was ranked the No. 5 player in Minnesota. Rivals rated him 3 stars. He was not rated by anyone else, meaning his 2-star VC rating is bogus, which is commonplace over there. The fact that he spent 2 years under the tutelage of the WI coaching staff and practiced against quality bigs is a welcome bonus.
Well we've got one fan of the team's work in the portal so far! I really hope he's right!
https://twitter.com/hoops_mvc/status/1385338822662184960
https://twitter.com/hoops_mvc/status/1385339489548214275
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 23, 2021, 01:58:16 AM
Well we've got one fan of the team's work in the portal so far! I really hope he's right!
https://twitter.com/hoops_mvc/status/1385338822662184960
https://twitter.com/hoops_mvc/status/1385339489548214275
Does this mean I should withdraw my name from the fan transfer portal?
I better wait. Better safe than sorry. Beside that I am now primarily a Valpo girls basketball fan so I have that extra margin of safety. ;)
Quote from: wh on April 22, 2021, 09:56:25 PMDoesn't he have 4 years remaining?
4 years of eligibility - Redshirt last year - Do-over this year = 4 years of eligibility remaining
By my count, he should have used one year of eligibility:
2018-19 Redshirt
2019-20 Injury
2020-21 Do over year
Quote from: humbleopinion on April 23, 2021, 05:35:29 AM
Quote from: wh on April 22, 2021, 09:56:25 PMDoesn't he have 4 years remaining?
4 years of eligibility - Redshirt last year - Do-over this year = 4 years of eligibility remaining
By my count, he should have used one year of eligibility:
2018-19 Redshirt
2019-20 Injury
2020-21 Do over year
I would be surprised if he would stay even 3 years. Academically he will most likely be at least a senior next year and could complete a Masters in his 2nd year. That would be enough for almost every kid, unless you are Vashil. ;)
Quote from: vu72 on April 22, 2021, 06:16:15 PM
Quote from: humbleopinion on April 22, 2021, 04:07:13 PM
Hard to assess how much he will add. He only appeared in nine games for the Badgers, and those appearances were at the end of games. He only saw the court for a total of 29 minutes in his two seasons.
He had a knee injury that ended his season last year in mid-December.
I like this addition. From the video he looks like a big, not just tall body. If he can come back from the knee injury, I would expect him to be really motivated to compete for minutes so he can show what he can do. It will be interesting to see how the coaching staff fits all these new pieces together. At the very least I expect us to be a much better rebounding and three point shooting team.
Quote from: humbleopinion on April 23, 2021, 05:35:29 AM
Quote from: wh on April 22, 2021, 09:56:25 PMDoesn't he have 4 years remaining?
4 years of eligibility - Redshirt last year - Do-over this year = 4 years of eligibility remaining
By my count, he should have used one year of eligibility:
2018-19 Redshirt
2019-20 Injury
2020-21 Do over year
According to this SB Nation article, https://www.buckys5thquarter.com/pages/joe-hedstrom he "gray shirted" in his freshman year (2018-19), meaning he wasn't officially part of the team. That would mean his eligibility clock didn't begin until 2019-20. If the author's interpretation is correct, last year would be a redshirt year and this year a do-over year, leaving him with 4 years of eligibility at this moment. It could also be that the author doesn't know what he's talking about. As Ft. Wayne points out, it's probably a moot point anyway.
I sent am email to a good friend in Minnesota who writes a prep evaluation piece covering Minnesota players. He replied that "Joe can help Valpo" and he is glad that Joe has three years of eligibility. Not exactly a long winded response but still good knowing how Minnesotans tend to be rather restrained!
As for me, having watched his high school tape, I really liked his use of both hands and his willingness to take it to the hoop. We haven't had that in a while.
Obviously the tape is a couple years ago. But a few quick observations, as said seems to have good hands, good body control for a 7', meaning he knows where he is in space and moves effortlessly to ball (fluidity). He was very muscular for a HS player, expect even more development with 2 years in B1G program. Has a nice wing span--long reach to certain rebounds. Completes dunks (limited set but assertive--go strong to rack). Moves well without the ball, the pick-n-roll seemed natural (not everyone knows how to roll) and he caught a low ball pass (again not natural). Was present in rebounding weakside (couple examples on tape). There are bigs who don't do this (e.g. Smits). Showed quickness in keeping up on defense and making the play without fouling (now there could be 20 examples we aren't seeing where he fouls or the player scores). Areas for improvement (and would be good to see some Wisky practice tape to see if they worked on them)--(i) brings the ball down too low, the smurfs will attack it or block the put back, we didn't see much shooting from 8-10 foot area (made one from 8 and form looked good), his release angle is too flat away from basket (the little hook and the jumper right side of lane) (can get away with it because playing against shorter players). Coming in his skill level is way above most bigs we have had in past 25 years. He is at or above Smits (before 2 yrs at Wisky) coming in, Bouchie had some of these innate skills. Vashii, Ensminger, Gomes all were projects coming in. He seems more natural than Antii coming in. Maybe closest to Raitis, who was extremely polished coming in. KVW is another comparison, although he had some stiffness. Will be interesting to see how he has developed at UW and how the above actually translates into real action. For now, they're video clips.
Joe was ranked number 5 (number 2 Center) in Minnesota coming out of high school.
https://www.prephoops.com/minnesota/rankings/2018-rankings/
Quote from: valpo84 on April 23, 2021, 11:05:37 AM
Obviously the tape is a couple years ago. But a few quick observations, as said seems to have good hands, good body control for a 7', meaning he knows where he is in space and moves effortlessly to ball (fluidity). He was very muscular for a HS player, expect even more development with 2 years in B1G program. Has a nice wing span--long reach to certain rebounds. Completes dunks (limited set but assertive--go strong to rack). Moves well without the ball, the pick-n-roll seemed natural (not everyone knows how to roll) and he caught a low ball pass (again not natural). Was present in rebounding weakside (couple examples on tape). There are bigs who don't do this (e.g. Smits). Showed quickness in keeping up on defense and making the play without fouling (now there could be 20 examples we aren't seeing where he fouls or the player scores). Areas for improvement (and would be good to see some Wisky practice tape to see if they worked on them)--(i) brings the ball down too low, the smurfs will attack it or block the put back, we didn't see much shooting from 8-10 foot area (made one from 8 and form looked good), his release angle is too flat away from basket (the little hook and the jumper right side of lane) (can get away with it because playing against shorter players). Coming in his skill level is way above most bigs we have had in past 25 years. He is at or above Smits (before 2 yrs at Wisky) coming in, Bouchie had some of these innate skills. Vashii, Ensminger, Gomes all were projects coming in. He seems more natural than Antii coming in. Maybe closest to Raitis, who was extremely polished coming in. KVW is another comparison, although he had some stiffness. Will be interesting to see how he has developed at UW and how the above actually translates into real action. For now, they're video clips.
Excellent, in-depth analysis.
If I was an NCAA basketball coach in today's transfer climate, I would only recruit HS players tied to future transfer potential. Focus on the guys that have P5 dreams, but might not fit that mold, and have a high likelihood of transferring 'down' after 1-3 years. Sprinkle in a few high potential HS guys on occasion, that can commit to at least 2 years, and anything past that is a benefit. Essentially, you need to operate more like a JuCo coach, and hope for 2 years from someone.
Some great stories about Joe Hedstrom. I'll highlight a few quotes:
https://247sports.com/Article/Hopkins-2018-Center-Joe-Hedstrom-Commits-to-Wisconsin-Badgers-108782383/
I just really, really trust the coaching staff. I'd be taught by one of the best programs, if not the best at developing big men in the country.
https://247sports.com/college/wisconsin/Article/Badgers-Recruiting-Hopkins-MN-2018-center-Joe-Hedstrom-commits-to-Wisconsin-basketball-108784171/
"One thing that all the coaches say is how I run the floor very well, and that's something I take pride in myself," Hedstrom said. "I feel like footwork always stays with you as I get stronger and quicker. I feel like (I have) that ability to outrun bigs because I can get a lot of points just by sprinting out off the rebounds and getting a dunk.
Assuming we are done with bringing in transfers and done losing transfers.
Who was the biggest loss?
Clay, JO, Robinson, Mileek, Sackey, Helm, Lorange
Who was the biggest gain?
Anderson, Taylor, Kithier, Hedstrom
And overall an upgrade vs downgrade?
Quote from: vuny98 on April 23, 2021, 01:56:38 PM
Assuming we are done with bringing in transfers and done losing transfers.
Who was the biggest loss?
Clay, JO, Robinson, Mileek, Sackey, Helm, Lorange
Who was the biggest gain?
Anderson, Taylor, Kithier, Hedstrom
And overall an upgrade vs downgrade?
Sackey/Helm/Lorange ---> Anderson. I would say upgrade. Helm and Lorange don't really count in my mind and a Big 10 backup point guard that played 14 minutes a game with 50+% from three and a great assist to turnover ratio is absolutely better than Sackey.
Clay/Robinson ---> Taylor. Not really sure about this one. I was never a big fan of Robinson. I think there was a game or two he might've carried us through but they were against unimpressive competition. Clay was a great defender and rebounder, and I know we are taking a step down in that regard, but I do think it is likely that Tayor is a better offensive player than either than them. We shall see.
JO/Mileek ---> Kithier/Hedstrom. This is absolutely an upgrade in my mind. I was excited for JO but I can't say for sure we lost a future Valpo star, but I think he was going to be good. Mileek on the other hand was a disaster this season. Kithier was a big 10 starter. He is going to be able to defend and rebound better than JO, and that is what we need. We also have him for only 1 less year than we had left on JO, yet are getting much more experience, and more of what we need from our big men. It is nice to have JO out there being able to knock down threes, but it looks like our team three point shooting should be a lot better this year, and I will sacrifice having a big that can shot if it means we can improve out rebounding and post defense too. Hedstrom I am not sure on but I think he will come in and be the backup center. I saw some people wondering if he would play a lot, and I think the answer is absolutely. I dont think he will start but I definitely think he will be our primary bench 5 that plays every game. He was behind some great bigs at Wisconsin and might have been recruited bit above his level, coupled with the injury.
I think the new guys will prove to be upgrades over what we lost, but that might be wishful thinking. It's not like we were winning with the guys that were here. Hoping for the best!
Quote from: vuny98 on April 23, 2021, 01:56:38 PM
Assuming we are done with bringing in transfers and done losing transfers.
Who was the biggest loss?
Clay, JO, Robinson, Mileek, Sackey, Helm, Lorange
Who was the biggest gain?
Anderson, Taylor, Kithier, Hedstrom
And overall an upgrade vs downgrade?
Biggest loss, I'm going with JO just because he has the most upside potential. Clay took a step back last year and until he can show that he can shoot consistently from outside, his ability to go to the rim will be blunted by defenders playing off him. He is a good defender and hustle rebounder but I think the two big transfers will more than make up for what we lose on the boards. For the others, I think the players coming in will be an improvement.
Biggest gain, I'm going with Anderson as I think our biggest need was an upgrade at point. He brings experience and maturity and can hopefully mentor the young guards. That takes nothing away from the other three who address our other needs.
Overall, I'm going to be optimistic and say this is an upgrade. We address our biggest negatives - point guard, three point shooting, and rebounding. As I've said previously, I look forward to seeing how the coaches fit all these new pieces together.
Quote from: vuny98 on April 23, 2021, 01:56:38 PM
Assuming we are done with bringing in transfers and done losing transfers.
Who was the biggest loss?
Clay, JO, Robinson, Mileek, Sackey, Helm, Lorange
Who was the biggest gain?
Anderson, Taylor, Kithier, Hedstrom
And overall an upgrade vs downgrade?
I would like to think the overall impact would be an upgrade, but that would honestly be a guess because of so many uncertainties to be determined in the actual play of the transfers. As importantly, given so many options available in the transfer portal and the ability for seniors to return, did most other MVC teams also improve as a result?
Quote from: vuny98 on April 23, 2021, 01:56:38 PM
Assuming we are done with bringing in transfers and done losing transfers.
Who was the biggest loss?
Clay, JO, Robinson, Mileek, Sackey, Helm, Lorange
Who was the biggest gain?
Anderson, Taylor, Kithier, Hedstrom
And overall an upgrade vs downgrade?
All 7 fall into 1 or more of the following categories:
• not talented enough to play
• enough talent to play, but lousy numbers to show for it
• selfish (as in demanding to play guard and pouting, yelling at the coach, and giving a halfhearted effort if told to play another position)
• thought the coaching staff didn't exhibit enough spiritual leadership (the type you might expect to see at evangelical or fundamentalist colleges). Also thought the coach should have disciplined a certain selfish player, but supposedly didn't
All 7 are addition by subtraction. I like our new guys a lot.
Point number 3 on your list is easy to attribute to a Mr. Clay. I am glad that someone else noticed and is aware of how much crap he caused. It was evident on the court.
biggest loss was Donovan. Defensively he was fine, offensively was interchangeable and likely would have fixed his jump shot. Bigger upside than JO. All this is a moot point, however. Unknown which newcomer will make the biggest impact. What is known......too many players and only one ball. A few will be the odd man out of the rotation. This reminds me of the older team/complimentary players assembled around Rowdy, (Bogan, Boggs, Capo, Coleman) Not sure who the center piece of this team will be.
Quote from: AB on April 23, 2021, 10:10:33 PM
biggest loss was Donovan. Defensively he was fine, offensively was interchangeable and likely would have fixed his jump shot. Bigger upside than JO. All this is a moot point, however. Unknown which newcomer will make the biggest impact. What is known......too many players and only one ball. A few will be the odd man out of the rotation. This reminds me of the older team/complimentary players assembled around Rowdy, (Bogan, Boggs, Capo, Coleman) Not sure who the center piece of this team will be.
I think Donavan suffered most from the JFL transfer. When JFL was the defensive focus, Donovan had room to go to the hoop. He didn't shoot particularly well as a freshman, and he shot worse as a sophomore even when he had open looks. Maybe he can fix this but I think his missed shots were off left to right more than short or long, and that may be tougher to fix. Maybe if he is not the defensive focus he can again find those seams where he can operate. We will miss his defense and that's one area where I am concerned that we may be taking a step back with the new guys. I agree with you that there is only one ball and that there will be some guys who will be disappointed that they end up being the odd man out of the rotation. My feeling is that if it is close, go with the young guys in hopes that they stick around so in the next year or two we can have teams who have guys who have experience in the system. But if we are in the era of building yearly teams instead of programs, then play the guys who give you the best chance of winning now, and then build a new team next year. Personally, I hate that approach, but what can you do?
Valparaiso lands 7-foot Wisconsin transfer Joe Hedstrom
Paul Oren Apr 23, 2021 Updated 8 hrs ago
https://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/valparaiso-lands-7-foot-wisconsin-transfer-joe-hedstrom/article_6b9f8312-7043-52cf-9173-3ae416266bf4.html
So what's the rotation going to look like? Who starts and who subs in and out.
Looks like multiple scenarios. Will be interesting to see how Connor fits in this with him starting last year.
Quote from: Chairback on April 24, 2021, 10:14:43 AM
So what's the rotation going to look like? Who starts and who subs in and out.
Looks like multiple scenarios. Will be interesting to see how Connor fits in this with him starting last year.
Good question. I would guess that three transfers start (Kithier, Anderson and Taylor) together with Ben and Eron. Next 5 would be Goodnews, Sheldon, Hedstrom, Cam and Keyondre. Oh man, some guys are not going to be happy. :o
Quote from: nkvu on April 24, 2021, 12:23:56 AM
I think Donavan suffered most from the JFL transfer. When JFL was the defensive focus, Donovan had room to go to the hoop. He didn't shoot particularly well as a freshman, and he shot worse as a sophomore even when he had open looks. Maybe he can fix this but I think his missed shots were off left to right more than short or long, and that may be tougher to fix. Maybe if he is not the defensive focus he can again find those seams where he can operate. We will miss his defense and that's one area where I am concerned that we may be taking a step back with the new guys. I agree with you that there is only one ball and that there will be some guys who will be disappointed that they end up being the odd man out of the rotation. My feeling is that if it is close, go with the young guys in hopes that they stick around so in the next year or two we can have teams who have guys who have experience in the system. But if we are in the era of building yearly teams instead of programs, then play the guys who give you the best chance of winning now, and then build a new team next year. Personally, I hate that approach, but what can you do?
I'm hoping Matt is flexible enough to adjust his system to suit the talent he has and to be learnable in the amount of time that today's turnover affords.
Don't underestimate Keyondre. I watched all 3 of his state tournament games against the best competition in the state. He dominated all 3 games, hit clutch baskets down the stretch, hit over 40% from 3, played aggressive defense. His team wins state and he's named MVP.
Then he decides to go out for track and the first time he has ever high jumped clears the bar at 6-8, no. 1 jump in the state. BTW 6-8 is the no. 1 jump in the MVC when I checked it at the time. So there's that.
Quote from: wh on April 24, 2021, 11:26:25 AM
Don't underestimate Keyondre. I watched all 3 of his state tournament games against the best competition in the state. He dominated all 3 games, hit clutch baskets down the stretch, hit over 40% from 3, played aggressive defense. His team wins state and he's named MVP.
Then he decides to go out for track and the first time he has ever high jumped clears the bar at 6-8, no. 1 jump in the state. BTW 6-8 is the no. 1 jump in the MVC when I checked it at the time. So there's that.
I'm not nor would I discount Cam. the more I think about it, even before the transfers in, the handwriting was on the wall for even Donovan regarding reduced playing time.
Quote from: vu72 on April 24, 2021, 10:51:45 AM
Quote from: Chairback on April 24, 2021, 10:14:43 AM
So what's the rotation going to look like? Who starts and who subs in and out.
Looks like multiple scenarios. Will be interesting to see how Connor fits in this with him starting last year.
Good question. I would guess that three transfers start (Kithier, Anderson and Taylor) together with Ben and Eron. Next 5 would be Goodnews, Sheldon, Hedstrom, Cam and Keyondre. Oh man, some guys are not going to be happy. :o
I think it would more likely to see Gordon backing up Anderson at the 1, and Sheldon starting at the 2. At least I hope so for the sake of keeping Sheldon around. If he isn't playing well as a starter, then demote him. They'll know more based on offseason practice performance, but I hope that is how it turns out. Before all the transfers, I was hoping Palesse would be good enough to start out of the gate but that is unrealistic now with the depth and experience at PG. However, he should be safe to stay if he performs well off the bench given that the two people ahead of him at PG (Anderson and Gordon) will be gone after next season. The 3 guard/Small forward situation is where it gets consfusing. You have Barrett who started his freshman year, Kevin Taylor who scored 21 ppg last year, 3 star recruit Trey Woodyard, and Keyondre young who we all are excited about. All of those people are probably coming in with the intention of earning heavy playing time, and starting at some point in the career down the line. 3 of them probably want to start this year with only one spot available (because Krikke will be playing the 4 spot).
Don't we have something like 19 players, counting walk-ons. That isn't a basketball team, it's a camp. Practices are going to be crazy. And picture games. 5 guys playing and 14 guys sitting on the bench hoping to hear their name called.
Best of luck to JO at Lipscomb where he joins senior and former VU player Parker Hazen if he stays for an extra year!
[tweet]1386093834157838347[/tweet]
Good for him, and the appropriate level for him to continue to learn. I don't know Lipscomb well enough, but maybe he will get that overall faith-based experience that he was hoping for in the basketball program.
A bit surprised he ended up transferring down but that does make me feel better about losing him. I understand Lipscomb is pretty strongly faith based so he probably will find what he's looking for. Best of luck to him. Since they've now taken two recent transfers of ours maybe we should consider playing them especially if they can get their NET up to decent levels which could be a bit of a challenge in the revamped A-Sun.
My expected starting 5:
PG: Anderson
SG: Edwards
SG: Eron
PF: Krikke
PF: Kithier
By end of year, Eron takes a back seat to Young.
Taylor, Hedstrom, Barrett, and 2-3 of the Freshmen will contribute big minutes as well.
Odd men out: Morgan, Goodnew, EFV
22 seconds into the video:
Q: Why is Valparaiso the right place for Darius DeAveiro?
A: I'm in a good spot to play big minutes my first year...
https://youtube.com/watch?v=V729Tun5YWM&feature=share
The transfer portal and an extra year of eligibility for current players changes everything.
Lipscomb is a Church of Christ school. I visited their when I lived in Nashville to watch Valpo play them in baseball. Their facilities are very nice. The Church of Christ is a loosely knit group of congregations primarily based in the deep South. They are WAY different than Lutherans and as an example, they do not believe in musical instruments being used during worship, including the organ. All music is sung a cappella. The teaching is based on "if it isn't specifically spelled out in the Bible it's a no go.
This is a small, safe environment for JO. Given what he said about family it is a bit surprising as it is no where near home for him. A strange choice in my estimation (unless he is a country music fan!)
https://www.sheboyganpress.com/story/sports/college/2021/04/25/sheboygan-lutherans-jacob-ognacevic-transfer-ncaa-di-lipscomb/7371494002/
Quote from: vu72 on April 25, 2021, 08:12:37 AM
Lipscomb is a Church of Christ school. I visited their when I lived in Nashville to watch Valpo play them in baseball. Their facilities are very nice. The Church of Christ is a loosely knit group of congregations primarily based in the deep South. They are WAY different than Lutherans and as an example, they do not believe in musical instruments being used during worship, including the organ. All music is sung a cappella. The teaching is based on "if it isn't specifically spelled out in the Bible it's a no go.
This is a small, safe environment for JO. Given what he said about family it is a bit surprising as it is no where near home for him. A strange choice in my estimation (unless he is a country music fan!)
Additionally, they have no sororities or fraternities, and students are required to attend chapel twice a week. As '72 noted they want student life to be compatible with their religious belief, which as a private university is certainly their right. Valpo doesn't purport to be anything like that, which is perfectly fine, as well. It's what I like about private universities over cookie cutter public universities. All of this said, had JO and his family spent more time vetting Valpo, they would have realized that Valpo was not going to be 4 more years of his local conservative Lutheran high school. He could have avoided a year of unhappiness and frustration, and Valpo's coaching staff wouldn't have invested a year helping to develop him, only to get publicly trashed on JO's way out the door. Hopefully, someone who cares about him will help him get his thinking straight that you hold yourself responsible for the decisions you make instead of portraying yourself as a victim.
Quote from: wh on April 25, 2021, 09:11:59 AM
All of this said, had JO and his family spent more time vetting Valpo, they would have realized that Valpo was not going to be 4 more years of his local conservative Lutheran high school. He could have avoided a year of unhappiness and frustration, and Valpo's coaching staff wouldn't have invested a year helping to develop him, only to get publicly trashed on JO's way out the door. Hopefully, someone who cares about him will help him get his thinking straight that you hold yourself responsible for the decisions you make instead of portraying yourself as a victim.
Speaking about trashing someone on his way out the door...
Quote from: wh on April 25, 2021, 07:43:21 AMThe transfer portal and an extra year of eligibility for current players changes everything.
Guys, gals, bigs and mids, the covid aftermath will leave a lot of hopeful and promising freshmen largely watching as bench spectators.
Quote from: vu72 on April 25, 2021, 08:12:37 AMThis is a small, safe environment for JO. Given what he said about family it is a bit surprising as it is no where near home for him. A strange choice in my estimation
The free market scramble for new homes is ending as I expected. Static demand coupled with a 25% oversupply has resulted in JO and Clay essentially moving sideways, Mileek and Daniel have stepped downward and Sigurd and Nick are unlikely to fare any better. This same oversupply has netted us a D-2 star and 3 Big-10 transfers down. BUT-----Other Valley teams may also improve.
Quote from: valpopal on April 25, 2021, 09:41:00 AM
Quote from: wh on April 25, 2021, 09:11:59 AM
All of this said, had JO and his family spent more time vetting Valpo, they would have realized that Valpo was not going to be 4 more years of his local conservative Lutheran high school. He could have avoided a year of unhappiness and frustration, and Valpo's coaching staff wouldn't have invested a year helping to develop him, only to get publicly trashed on JO's way out the door. Hopefully, someone who cares about him will help him get his thinking straight that you hold yourself responsible for the decisions you make instead of portraying yourself as a victim.
Speaking about trashing someone on his way out the door...
I'll stand by what I said, and you and a few others will stand by what you said in buying the kid's story hook, line and sinker and using it as ammunition to claim Matt Lottich needs to be fired.
Re: JO...wh I totally agree with your assessment...well said. I must say that I hope the transfer works out for him but it was rather obvious that JO showed some immaturity in dealing with his situation involving Valpo. His transfer was probably better for all involved.
Quote from: wh on April 25, 2021, 10:26:32 AM
Quote from: valpopal on April 25, 2021, 09:41:00 AM
Quote from: wh on April 25, 2021, 09:11:59 AM
All of this said, had JO and his family spent more time vetting Valpo, they would have realized that Valpo was not going to be 4 more years of his local conservative Lutheran high school. He could have avoided a year of unhappiness and frustration, and Valpo's coaching staff wouldn't have invested a year helping to develop him, only to get publicly trashed on JO's way out the door. Hopefully, someone who cares about him will help him get his thinking straight that you hold yourself responsible for the decisions you make instead of portraying yourself as a victim.
Speaking about trashing someone on his way out the door...
I'll stand by what I said, and you and a few others will stand by what you said in buying the kid's story hook, line and sinker and using it as ammunition to claim Matt Lottich needs to be fired.
You seem to be making another assumption and jumping to another conclusion. I have never called for Lottich to be fired. As for "the kid's story": what are the specific details on which you have based your sweeping judgment?
Quote from: valpo64 on April 25, 2021, 10:50:32 AM
Re: JO...wh I totally agree with your assessment...well said. I must say that I hope the transfer works out for him but it was rather obvious that JO showed some immaturity in dealing with his situation involving Valpo. His transfer was probably better for all involved.
On what basis or specific evidence are you concluding that JO showed immaturity?
To be fair pal, Jacob was quoted in his local newspaper saying, in part, the following:
roughout the year, a lot of little things added up. The school wasn't what I thought it was," Ognacevic said. "When I was recruited I was sold on something the school wasn't. Players weren't held responsible like I expected them to be, got away with a lot."
"I saw and heard some things, on and off the court, which were alarming," Ognacevic said. "Everyone in our locker room saw the issues. We've got seven guys leaving, that's why we were so inconsistent."
Now, one could say that these comments were "immature" or "publicly trashing" Valpo but at the very least they show naivete on Jacob's part.
Quote from: valpopal on April 25, 2021, 11:03:33 AM
Quote from: valpo64 on April 25, 2021, 10:50:32 AM
Re: JO...wh I totally agree with your assessment...well said. I must say that I hope the transfer works out for him but it was rather obvious that JO showed some immaturity in dealing with his situation involving Valpo. His transfer was probably better for all involved.
On what basis or specific evidence are you concluding that JO showed immaturity?
We are now officially living in parallel universes relative to this topic.
Quote from: vu72 on April 25, 2021, 01:23:14 PM
To be fair pal, Jacob was quoted in his local newspaper saying, in part, the following:
roughout the year, a lot of little things added up. The school wasn't what I thought it was," Ognacevic said. "When I was recruited I was sold on something the school wasn't. Players weren't held responsible like I expected them to be, got away with a lot."
"I saw and heard some things, on and off the court, which were alarming," Ognacevic said. "Everyone in our locker room saw the issues. We've got seven guys leaving, that's why we were so inconsistent."
Now, one could say that these comments were "immature" or "publicly trashing" Valpo but at the very least they show naivete on Jacob's part.
When players offer phony reasons for leaving, we are fine with that action? However, when a player gives an honest answer to a reporter's question, we object and criticize. I admire honesty. "The school wasn't what I thought it was," Ognacevic said. "When I was recruited I was sold on something the school wasn't. Players weren't held responsible like I expected them to be, got away with a lot." If those two frank generalizations in replying to a question that show discretion in not naming names or details are now considered "trashing," then I underestimated the hypersensitivities of some readers on this forum.
Quote from: wh on April 25, 2021, 01:32:51 PM
Quote from: valpopal on April 25, 2021, 11:03:33 AM
Quote from: valpo64 on April 25, 2021, 10:50:32 AM
Re: JO...wh I totally agree with your assessment...well said. I must say that I hope the transfer works out for him but it was rather obvious that JO showed some immaturity in dealing with his situation involving Valpo. His transfer was probably better for all involved.
On what basis or specific evidence are you concluding that JO showed immaturity?
We are now officially living in parallel universes relative to this topic.
Yes, those of us unwilling to speculate or jump to conclusions based upon assumptions, and those who apparently are willing to tarnish the personal character of a player without knowledge of all the facts.
Quote from: valpopal on April 25, 2021, 02:09:35 PM
Quote from: wh on April 25, 2021, 01:32:51 PM
Quote from: valpopal on April 25, 2021, 11:03:33 AM
Quote from: valpo64 on April 25, 2021, 10:50:32 AM
Re: JO...wh I totally agree with your assessment...well said. I must say that I hope the transfer works out for him but it was rather obvious that JO showed some immaturity in dealing with his situation involving Valpo. His transfer was probably better for all involved.
On what basis or specific evidence are you concluding that JO showed immaturity?
We are now officially living in parallel universes relative to this topic.
Yes, those of us unwilling to speculate or jump to conclusions based upon assumptions, and those who apparently are willing to tarnish the personal character of a player without knowledge of all the facts.
If you folks are dedicated to this boot pissing exchange then let the rest of us know so we can grab a case of beer and join in. ;) Nothing like a good pissing match to relieve the off season basketball boredom. In my heyday very few could beat me!
Quote from: vu72 on April 25, 2021, 01:23:14 PM
To be fair pal, Jacob was quoted in his local newspaper saying, in part, the following:
roughout the year, a lot of little things added up. The school wasn't what I thought it was," Ognacevic said. "When I was recruited I was sold on something the school wasn't. Players weren't held responsible like I expected them to be, got away with a lot."
"I saw and heard some things, on and off the court, which were alarming," Ognacevic said. "Everyone in our locker room saw the issues. We've got seven guys leaving, that's why we were so inconsistent."
Now, one could say that these comments were "immature" or "publicly trashing" Valpo but at the very least they show naivete on Jacob's part.
Those quotes are inflammatory, mean-spirited, vindictive, and potentially damaging to Valparaiso University generally and more specifically to its men's basketball program's efforts to recruit top players. They were made knowing that Valparaiso University and his former coach would never be in a position to directly refute any of his claims, especially his most damaging claim of showing favoritism to some players over other players. Nope, Lottich is left to wear that label now, rightly or wrongly, fairly or unfairly.
Of the 1300+ players in the portal, JO's the only one that I'm personally aware of that pulled a stunt like this and badmouthed his former university and coach in a formal press interview. Like I said before, he can't undo the damage he's caused, it's going to have to wear off in time. What he can do is recognize that what he did was unacceptable and use it as a learning experience.
The post transfer results would indicate to me that JO's transfer had less to do with basketball and more to do with environment and surroundings. Everyone has a comfort zone and hopefully he has found his.
Quote from: vu72 on April 24, 2021, 10:51:45 AM
Quote from: Chairback on April 24, 2021, 10:14:43 AM
So what's the rotation going to look like? Who starts and who subs in and out.
Looks like multiple scenarios. Will be interesting to see how Connor fits in this with him starting last year.
Good question. I would guess that three transfers start (Kithier, Anderson and Taylor) together with Ben and Eron. Next 5 would be Goodnews, Sheldon, Hedstrom, Cam and Keyondre. Oh man, some guys are not going to be happy. :o
I'd have Sheldon instead of Taylor, but who knows? Taylor is new to DI, so I'd like to see how he adjusts to big time ball in the MVC.
Quote from: wh on April 23, 2021, 06:40:45 PM
Quote from: vuny98 on April 23, 2021, 01:56:38 PM
Assuming we are done with bringing in transfers and done losing transfers.
Who was the biggest loss?
Clay, JO, Robinson, Mileek, Sackey, Helm, Lorange
Who was the biggest gain?
Anderson, Taylor, Kithier, Hedstrom
And overall an upgrade vs downgrade?
All 7 fall into 1 or more of the following categories:
• not talented enough to play
• enough talent to play, but lousy numbers to show for it
• selfish (as in demanding to play guard and pouting, yelling at the coach, and giving a halfhearted effort if told to play another position)
• thought the coaching staff didn't exhibit enough spiritual leadership (the type you might expect to see at evangelical or fundamentalist colleges). Also thought the coach should have disciplined a certain selfish player, but supposedly didn't
All 7 are addition by subtraction. I like our new guys a lot.
I won't argue with any of this. You had a very similar evaluation of the Evelyn/Smits et al departures a few years ago.
I will ask this ... if all the recent departures are due to deficiencies in the talent/attitude/character of the players, does any of that fault fall with the coaching staff who recruited them to campus? I don't have an opinion either way, but just curious what the group thinks.
Things have definitely changed, with kids showing much less patience to put in work while waiting their turn. It's also true that some % of kids just never develop into the player you thought they would be when you offered a scholarship to them at age 16. All programs make recruiting mistakes ... could it be that Lottich is more honest and more aggressive in moving on from his mistakes?
Quote from: wh on April 25, 2021, 02:41:03 PM
Quote from: vu72 on April 25, 2021, 01:23:14 PM
To be fair pal, Jacob was quoted in his local newspaper saying, in part, the following:
roughout the year, a lot of little things added up. The school wasn't what I thought it was," Ognacevic said. "When I was recruited I was sold on something the school wasn't. Players weren't held responsible like I expected them to be, got away with a lot."
"I saw and heard some things, on and off the court, which were alarming," Ognacevic said. "Everyone in our locker room saw the issues. We've got seven guys leaving, that's why we were so inconsistent."
Now, one could say that these comments were "immature" or "publicly trashing" Valpo but at the very least they show naivete on Jacob's part.
Those quotes are inflammatory, mean-spirited, vindictive, and potentially damaging to Valparaiso University generally and more specifically to its men's basketball program's efforts to recruit top players. They were made knowing that Valparaiso University and his former coach would never be in a position to directly refute any of his claims, especially his most damaging claim of showing favoritism to some players over other players. Nope, Lottich is left to wear that label now, rightly or wrongly, fairly or unfairly.
Of the 1300+ players in the portal, JO's the only one that I'm personally aware of that pulled a stunt like this and badmouthed his former university and coach in a formal press interview. Like I said before, he can't undo the damage he's caused, it's going to have to wear off in time. What he can do is recognize that what he did was unacceptable and use it as a learning experience.
Okay, let me use your own words to describe what I see in your comments about this topic on the forum: "inflammatory, mean-spirited, vindictive, and potentially damaging" words about a player who is not "in a position to directly refute" them, which is "unacceptable" and why I am responding. JO's comment: "When I was recruited I was sold on something the school wasn't. Players weren't held responsible like I expected them to be, got away with a lot." I need clarity: Do you really think he's lying and made it all up, so that he could choose to transfer down and move to a school farther away from home, or are you just afraid he was telling the truth and transferring down is evidence he is following his principles, but you wish he hadn't because it is not good press? I will repeat what I have said before: I admire honesty.
Quote from: wh on April 25, 2021, 07:43:21 AM22 seconds into the video: Q: Why is Valparaiso the right place for Darius DeAveiro? A: I'm in a good spot to play big minutes my first year... https://youtube.com/watch?v=V729Tun5YWM&feature=share The transfer portal and an extra year of eligibility for current players changes everything.
I suspect an early entry into next year's transfer portal.
Quote from: valpopal on April 25, 2021, 03:31:38 PMI suspect an early entry into next year's transfer portal.
It has gotten very difficult to imagine DeAveiro or Woodyard playing significant minutes in 21-22 and they should be warned of this pronto. Matt must approach the season aggressively and tailor his expectations, strategies and individual development plans with what he sees happening on the court. This could take us many different directions but the expected freshman playing time for Young and Pelesse could easily trump out the hopes for the aforementioned duo. It is painful to say this before they even suit up for their first shoot around but barring the unforeseen it will be a season of watching and working. Sorry boys but 15 is an unworkable number!
Quote from: valpopal on April 25, 2021, 03:31:38 PM
Quote from: wh on April 25, 2021, 02:41:03 PM
Quote from: vu72 on April 25, 2021, 01:23:14 PM
To be fair pal, Jacob was quoted in his local newspaper saying, in part, the following:
roughout the year, a lot of little things added up. The school wasn't what I thought it was," Ognacevic said. "When I was recruited I was sold on something the school wasn't. Players weren't held responsible like I expected them to be, got away with a lot."
"I saw and heard some things, on and off the court, which were alarming," Ognacevic said. "Everyone in our locker room saw the issues. We've got seven guys leaving, that's why we were so inconsistent."
Now, one could say that these comments were "immature" or "publicly trashing" Valpo but at the very least they show naivete on Jacob's part.
Those quotes are inflammatory, mean-spirited, vindictive, and potentially damaging to Valparaiso University generally and more specifically to its men's basketball program's efforts to recruit top players. They were made knowing that Valparaiso University and his former coach would never be in a position to directly refute any of his claims, especially his most damaging claim of showing favoritism to some players over other players. Nope, Lottich is left to wear that label now, rightly or wrongly, fairly or unfairly.
Of the 1300+ players in the portal, JO's the only one that I'm personally aware of that pulled a stunt like this and badmouthed his former university and coach in a formal press interview. Like I said before, he can't undo the damage he's caused, it's going to have to wear off in time. What he can do is recognize that what he did was unacceptable and use it as a learning experience.
Okay, let me use your own words to describe what I see in your comments about this topic on the forum: "inflammatory, mean-spirited, vindictive, and potentially damaging" words about a player who is not "in a position to directly refute" them, which is "unacceptable" and why I am responding. JO's comment: "When I was recruited I was sold on something the school wasn't. Players weren't held responsible like I expected them to be, got away with a lot." I need clarity: Do you really think he's lying and made it all up, so that he could choose to transfer down and move to a school farther away from home, or are you just afraid he was telling the truth and transferring down is evidence he is following his principles, but you wish he hadn't because it is not good press? I will repeat what I have said before: I admire honesty.
I'll stand with the other 1299+ players who wisely and responsibly chose to keep their mouths shut and move on.
Perhaps the transfer portal will lose its allure. As of now, a quick look indicates that 2/3 of the D1 basketball players who entered the portal have not found a new home.
Quote from: justducky on April 25, 2021, 04:31:17 PM
Quote from: valpopal on April 25, 2021, 03:31:38 PMI suspect an early entry into next year's transfer portal.
It has gotten very difficult to imagine DeAveiro or Woodyard playing significant minutes in 21-22 and they should be warned of this pronto. Matt must approach the season aggressively and tailor his expectations, strategies and individual development plans with what he sees happening on the court. This could take us many different directions but the expected freshman playing time for Young and Pelesse could easily trump out the hopes for the aforementioned duo. It is painful to say this before they even suit up for their first shoot around but barring the unforeseen it will be a season of watching and working. Sorry boys but 15 is an unworkable number!
Outside the 3 (or 4 if Emil is healthy) bigs, competition for playing time will be fierce. I expect Anderson will get the majority of minutes at point. Beyond that I expect the older guys will get most of of the pt early. If the younger guys can muscle their way into increased time then that will only be good for the team's prospects. Gorden and Morgan, for example, play at a certain level. If they see the floor less later in the season, it will mean that the young guys have taken the team to a higher level. I have no idea which of the young guys might break through. I hope some do.
Quote from: vu72 on April 25, 2021, 01:23:14 PM
Now, one could say that these comments were "immature" or "publicly trashing" Valpo but at the very least they show naivete on Jacob's part.
When you consider all of the knuckle-headed, foolish actions of college students in general and college athletes in particular, answering a reporter's question honestly (if inadvisably) is pretty low on the list of offenses. We've had students who have been arrested, sanctioned or alleged to have participated in underage drinking, drug use/possession, assault and academic integrity issues, and those are just the ones we know about.
Beyond that, we've all done or said things we regret, especially at say 19 years of age. Thus, we on this fan board would be wise to dial back the outrage.
I think vu72 is right that this reflects some naivete in talking to a reporter on the record, yet I'm more than willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. My guess is that Mr. Ognacevic apologized to Coach Lottich for bringing this out in the open, and both have moved on. We should do the same.
I believe PO posted here earlier that he spoke to JO and he somewhat walked back the comments he made. I agree it was a sign of immaturity, saying too much to a reporter, maybe not understanding the impact or how it would come across. Not to mention his expectations were probably unrealistic.
That being said, he's young and made a mistake and realized it which is why he walked the comments back and didn't expound upon them when he talked with PO.
I have no ill will towards him. Hope the best for him. He learned a lesson and hopefully it can be an opportunity for the coaching staff as well to get better.
Quote from: humbleopinion on April 25, 2021, 05:29:58 PMPerhaps the transfer portal will lose its allure. As of now, a quick look indicates that 2/3 of the D1 basketball players who entered the portal have not found a new home.
That actually could end up working. You can transfer but if you weren't playing in particular, that could mean all teams have lost interest particularly with the added class of HSers and prep schoolers coming in.
However, I don't trust many if not most of these guys to have the self awareness to realize it is they without the chair when the music stops and not the other guys.
Quote from: vuny98 on April 25, 2021, 09:32:18 PM
I believe PO posted here earlier that he spoke to JO and he somewhat walked back the comments he made. I agree it was a sign of immaturity, saying too much to a reporter, maybe not understanding the impact or how it would come across. Not to mention his expectations were probably unrealistic.
That being said, he's young and made a mistake and realized it which is why he walked the comments back and didn't expound upon them when he talked with PO.
I have no ill will towards him. Hope the best for him. He learned a lesson and hopefully it can be an opportunity for the coaching staff as well to get better.
There are consequences for the things we say. If we say them to friends or small groups maybe they are negligible. If we say them to a wider audience they are greater. The more people realize this and consider the possible impact of what they say, the better off everyone will be. What I took from JO's interview was that he felt that the Valpo people recruiting him intentionally mislead him about the team and the university. Otherwise, why would he have said that now with a year's experience he would be able to tell if recruiters were lying to him? His comment struck publicly at the integrity of the people recruiting him, and by extension, the university. As a result, Valpo needs to insure that the coaching staff is presenting an accurate picture of the university to athletes they are recruiting. At the same time, by attempting to walk back his comments, I think JO may have realized he went too far in rationalizing his decision to leave. There are two sides to this and we will never know all the details. For me, I have moved on from JO. I wish him well. He has some skills and a higher ceiling if he works hard at the things he needs to improve. Maybe the religious aspects of his new school will meet his needs better. Regardless, I am excited about the new guys coming in and can't wait to see how the team comes together next fall.
I will never fault anyone for comments or antics in their late teens/early 20s. Pgmado is aware of some of the crap that my friends were involved at Valpo, and I was lucky that I was never much of a drinker, so I didn't get in trouble. Now, that doesn't mean that my best friend and I didn't climb onto the roof of the Neils Science Center, among other stupid things :)
Regarding Jos comments, I think EVERY college freshman could say that this year was not what they expected or how a college/university presented itself. We are in the middle of a world pandemic. Nothing is as it normally would be. And given the circumstances, it could be, as is true in many academic settings, the concern for the mental well being of kids may lead to giving kids more freedom. Plus the additional financial burden of Covid could have changed how they did things.
This was a hard year for kids. I think we all just need to get through it. Next year should be more normal.
My questions is if everyone is allowed one free transfer, does that make getting your second transfer much more difficult? If so, I hope all the transferring athetes are making the right decisions in selecting schools. At least our students are getting a great education, which, at the end of the day is the most important thing.
The more I read about Joe Hedstrom the more excited I am. At a legit 7' 240#, he not only got a scholarship to Wisconsin but also could have played in the PAC-12 at Utah, who also offered.
This article was written four years ago much of which was spent with the Wisconsin coaching staff.
http://www.ny2lasports.com/article_one.aspx?articleid=3747
We were just manhandled by guys like Gaige Prim, Cameron Krutwig, Elijah Childs and Darnell Brodie. Joe, together with Thomas Kithier will totally change our approach or vulnerabilities.
Quote from: bb33 on April 26, 2021, 10:12:40 AMRegarding Jos comments, I think EVERY college freshman could say that this year was not what they expected or how a college/university presented itself. We are in the middle of a world pandemic. Nothing is as it normally would be. And given the circumstances, it could be, as is true in many academic settings, the concern for the mental well being of kids may lead to giving kids more freedom. Plus the additional financial burden of Covid could have changed how they did things. This was a hard year for kids. I think we all just need to get through it. Next year should be more normal.
As a college freshman who decided to go 9 hours away from home (Valpo) to school, I can say this is absolutely correct. I go to a large school, so it has been a little manageable, but I imagine it is even harder at a small school like Valpo. Either way I came within hours of just packing up and leaving school and going home midway through the semester, and heavily considered just transferring closer to home. Unfortunately for me, the school I go to is the only school in the country that has my major, so my options are limited. All that being said, I have no doubt my current school is the right choice for me long term, but this year tried its best to change my mind. Things will be back to normal for the most part by next school year it seems, but I know not a single friend or fellow student that didn't have a very rough time. In fact, many students I talked to about this mentioned how they "wished they went (somewhere else)". That somewhere else was different for almost everybody, usually dependent on where they were from or what they are accustomed to. Students had a very uncomfortable year (like everybody else, too) and likely desired to be somewhere they were more in a comfort bubble, whether it was closer to home with more friends, or in JOs case, a more strictly religious school. I think a lot of these people, myself included, figured the grass was definitely greener somewhere else. In reality, it sucked everywhere, for everyone. I think it would be foolish to assume that this same sentiment doesn't apply to student-athletes as well, especially freshmen.
I agree with Vok, this year was straight trash for college students whether they were able to be on campus or have their sport or whatnot. There were no good choices and none of them were fun. Students on campus had to deal with quarantines and getting sick, students off campus didn't have friends nearby and were stuck learning over computers.
Sporting events were held with no attendees, travel sucked with back to back games, conditioning was lost and opportunities for team bonding were probably limited.
All of that could absolutely exacerbate and magnify other frustrations. Dorm food is worse when you can't go out to eat and restaurants or there aren't as many events with food at them, The housing is even worse when you're trapped in it, personality clashes increase and it pushed people into different ways of coping. Some wanted things to look as normal as possible, others wanted greater flexibility and rules relaxed and those two were in conflict all the time. One student grateful for relaxed standards in one class may have had a prof in another class refusing to give an inch to "keep things normal" while another may have been frustrated that other students seemed to view this year as a mulligan or not work as hard.
Last year was anything but normal and not at all indicative of what college life really is. As a result any new freshman was subjective to an unreal college/campus experience.
Coach Gore lamented about this in a recent pod-cast. He expressed his frustration in not being able to connect and interact with players. It made his job of coaching so much harder. Because there was no famillarity or expectations between each other. It becomes almost impossible to forge relationships/friendships when you are regulated and isolated to the walls of a dorm room for days or weeks at a time.
Hopefully this next year will get back to normal and players will be able to gel together, experience real campus life and forge lasting friendships. Thus becoming a real part of the college.
Quote from: VUBBFan on April 26, 2021, 02:28:00 PMCoach Gore lamented about this in a recent pod-cast. He expressed his frustration in not being able to connect and interact with players.
What podcast was that? Would love to listen.
So, when everything is said and done, won't about a third of these athletes end up with no scholarship or school to attend?
Quote from: tjjvalpo on April 26, 2021, 10:17:08 PM
So, when everything is said and done, won't about a third of these athletes end up with no scholarship or school to attend?
Yes, there is a large risk for those athletes who remain unsigned. This is probably why some of our transfers in/out made the school decisions that they did, versus waiting any longer.
Saw this video clip on another message board. What Jerry Seinfeld said regarding professional sports is becoming apropos of college basketball.
https://vimeo.com/47283296
:)
Quote from: wh on April 27, 2021, 03:49:27 AM
Saw this video clip on another message board. What Jerry Seinfeld said regarding professional sports is becoming apropos of college basketball.
https://vimeo.com/47283296
:)
I mean, it was true before this latest wave of transfers in college sports. There is turnover in professional sports, but college sports, especially at places like Duke and Kentucky, half the team is turning over every year. Heck, even at Butler, there were 7 new scholarship players (5 freshmen, 2 transfers) this past season. College sports has always been about rooting for the name on the front of the jersey more than the names on the back. You can get attached to guys when they're good players and good fits at your program, but the real attachment is to the school or the program itself.
I do find the discussion on recruiting in the era of transfers, especially at a mid-major level pretty fascinating. It will be interesting to see how the programs that make it work are utilizing it.
Quote from: FWalum on April 26, 2021, 06:50:06 PMQuote from: VUBBFan on April 26, 2021, 02:28:00 PMCoach Gore lamented about this in a recent pod-cast. He expressed his frustration in not being able to connect and interact with players.
What podcast was that? Would love to listen.
It was the pod cast "jack vita show". He was interviewing coach Gore about the sweet 16. It's rather long and they don't say much about Valpo until the last 1/4 of the pod cast.
Tom Izzo on Thomas Kithier:
https://247sports.com/Video/Izzo-starts-Kithier-because-he-does-every-little-thing-right-10134261/
Quote from: vu72 on April 27, 2021, 09:45:19 AMTom Izzo on Thomas Kithier: https://247sports.com/Video/Izzo-starts-Kithier-because-he-does-every-little-thing-right-10134261/
Seems like Kiser was for us. From a pure talent standpoint, probably not talented enough to play at the level he was, but did everything right and such a good team player that he raised the level of play for the others and earned his playing time that way. I think with the step down, Kithiers talent should be on par with the competition and if he maintains the work ethic and team play mentality he exhibited at MSU he could be special for us. He should help open up Krikke a lot too.
If I drink too much, my pronunciation of "Kithier" might sound a lot like "Kiser". The two players may be that similar!
In a job situation, at a public level a mature person leaving is cordial, wishes everyone the best and moves on with their life. At the bar, that may differ, but when moving on , be nice and move on. No need to burn bridges - who knows, you may need their assistance inthe future.
In general, sounds like what a 19-20 year old would do. Sometimes you go to a place that is a square peg in a round hole.
Interesting. I see that Micah Bradford is in the transfer portal. I had thought he finished after last year at Southern. It looks like he got injured this season, and gets to keep his last year.
Former SIU and current Gonzaga player, Aaron Cook, is now in the portal. Interesting. Taking advantage of a 6th year, since he didn't get the PT he thought he would in transferring up:
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/stats/_/id/4067063/aaron-cook
Quote from: valpotx on April 27, 2021, 06:29:07 PMFormer SIU and current Gonzaga player, Aaron Cook, is now in the portal. Interesting. Taking advantage of a 6th year, since he didn't get the PT he thought he would in transferring up:
Is it safe for us to assume he will be transferring down? ;D
Quote from: justducky on April 27, 2021, 08:23:05 PMQuote from: valpotx on April 27, 2021, 06:29:07 PMFormer SIU and current Gonzaga player, Aaron Cook, is now in the portal. Interesting. Taking advantage of a 6th year, since he didn't get the PT he thought he would in transferring up:
Is it safe for us to assume he will be transferring down? ;D
Interesting decision to transfer. With Suggs leaving you'd think that would have opened up more playing time for Cook.
Hunter Sallis is a higher rated recruit to Gonzaga than Suggs was. I'm sure the Zags are expecting Sallis to get the Suggs time.
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1385380704146628612?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1385380704146628612%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-2130060169321337924.ampproject.net%2F2104170104001%2Fframe.html
Quote from: wh on April 28, 2021, 08:58:56 AM
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1385380704146628612?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1385380704146628612%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-2130060169321337924.ampproject.net%2F2104170104001%2Fframe.html
Got to know Steven's father a bit over the winter so I guess I will have to try and catch a few games next season to see how Steven performs. I suspect he will get a fair amount of playing time. Having coached at Tech I continue to follow the program so I can say that their Head Coach Ted Albert should make Steve feel at home. Albert played and was an assistant previously at Cornerstone University in Grand Rapids. Cornerstone is a strong Christian university and I suspect that Albert's team incorporates those principles. Albert has been very successful in his 4 years at Tech and this years team ended up 22-9. They are very big with 7 players in the 6'6"-6'10' range and had no seniors, so at least one player must be transferring or the NAIA is doing something similar with the extra scholarship year.
The school, on the other hand, will be significantly different from Valpo. I hope that Steven does well and I look forward to seeing him play in person!
Quote from: VUBBFan on April 27, 2021, 09:26:31 AM
Quote from: FWalum on April 26, 2021, 06:50:06 PMQuote from: VUBBFan on April 26, 2021, 02:28:00 PMCoach Gore lamented about this in a recent pod-cast. He expressed his frustration in not being able to connect and interact with players.
What podcast was that? Would love to listen.
It was the pod cast "jack vita show". He was interviewing coach Gore about the sweet 16. It's rather long and they don't say much about Valpo until the last 1/4 of the pod cast.
Interesting, a Valpo Alum with a Christian based sports podcast who occasionally interviews other Valpo alums and coaches. Seems to me that this should be a little more widely advertised on the forum... I also liked the interview with Paul Oren, but haven't listened to the show where Jack spends some time talking about the Valpo mascot issue. Here is his website, from which you can get the podcast info. Jack Vita website with the Podcast link (https://www.jackvita.com)
Congrats to Helm, and appears to be the right level for him to finish his career.
Quote from: valpotx on April 28, 2021, 01:03:19 PM
Congrats to Helm, and appears to be the right level for him to finish his career.
where did you see that? its not on verbal commits yet.
4-5 posts above :)
Quote from: vu72 on April 28, 2021, 01:24:12 PM
Quote from: valpotx on April 28, 2021, 01:03:19 PM
Congrats to Helm, and appears to be the right level for him to finish his career.
where did you see that? its not on verbal commits yet.
@INTechMBB tweeted it out last Thursday.
:o :o :-X
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1387517876966469632
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1387518402986758150
Actually feel sorry for Kpegeol and Morgan, things just aren't normal whether it be basketball or school. Both of these players have never really found a college home or team. I can't imagine that because my experience at Valpo was such a big part of my life and I don't think I would be the same if I bounced around from school to school. At least Morgan is graduating and seems to have something to fall back on. I thought that Goodnews might finally seem to fit into the scheme of things given a normal year, he was a very passionate player when he was on the floor, he just sometimes seemed lost and I had hoped a real year of being with the team and practicing might have made a difference.
Blessings, Godspeed and best of luck to both of them!
Well that's two open scholarships we can use right? Best of luck to them both! Was hoping to see what they could do next year but I think minutes would be hard for Kpegeol especially to come by. Zion was really coming on at the end of last year and his absence might be felt a bit but it'll be interesting to see how Matt chooses to use the two scholarships we have open now.
Quote from: valpotx on April 28, 2021, 01:03:19 PM
Congrats to Helm, and appears to be the right level for him to finish his career.
I agree but let's be honest he started at Carroll in Montana transferred to Valpo, took a two year mission came back to Valpo now off to Indiana Tech theoretically still a soph if NCAA like rules apply. He still could have a couple of stops left in him.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 28, 2021, 05:30:14 PM
Well that's two open scholarships we can use right? Best of luck to them both! Was hoping to see what they could do next year but I think minutes would be hard for Kpegeol especially to come by. Zion was really coming on at the end of last year and his absence might be felt a bit but it'll be interesting to see how Matt chooses to use the two scholarships we have open now.
Only one. Zion, as a senior, doesn't free up a scholarship.
Robinson moves to the Southern Conference, ranked 10 in this past year's NET list with Missouri Valley ranked 11, but to possibly that league's weakest team.
[tweet]1387520423001219079[/tweet]
I think Zion is moving on from basketball. He has his eye on other things now. Good for him.
I will miss GoodNews. He played with a lot of heart.
That puts my count at 13 eligible scholarship players and this might be a great time to stop. OK maybe a whale jumps in our boat but other than that I think we are good. We have gotten by with 11 so why would we ever need 14? Without Morgan and Kpegeol then Woodyard and DeAveiro should at least have some opportunities to play and maybe impress. Like I asked on the girl's thread "Is too much of a good thing still a good thing?"
I am impressed with our former players and their transfer selections. Each made what seems like the correct decision tied to the level that they can play. I hope that each gains the playing time that they seek, to finish out their careers. Morgan being done is not a surprise, though it is unfortunate about Goodnews. He did seem to play with a lot of energy, though the optics were that he and ML did not get along. It was either that, or Goodnews was playing hurt, and ML didn't want to chance further injury.
Quote from: justducky on April 28, 2021, 06:41:21 PM
That puts my count at 13 eligible scholarship players and this might be a great time to stop. OK maybe a whale jumps in our boat but other than that I think we are good. We have gotten by with 11 so why would we ever need 14? Without Morgan and Kpegeol then Woodyard and DeAveiro should at least have some opportunities to play and maybe impress. Like I asked on the girl's thread "Is too much of a good thing still a good thing?"
Wow, I step away from the board for the afternoon, and the roster changes yet again. Anyway, I completely agree with every point in this post. We're there (short of ducky's whale).
Hard to accept 9 is normal for these days.
Goodnews I believe was expected to transfer.
Quote from: Chairback on April 28, 2021, 08:12:11 PM
Hard to accept 9 is normal for these days.
Goodnews I believe was expected to transfer.
Nine is an inflated number IMO. McMillan, Morgan and Robinson weren't expected to be on the roster next year anyway. Helm is a walk-on. Takes the number down to five. Lorange couldn't get healthy and probably isn't a D1 player. Kpegeol never seemed to fit in. The three big ones hurt. Clay, Ognacevic and Sackey.
Quote from: Pgmado on April 28, 2021, 08:23:09 PMQuote from: Chairback on April 28, 2021, 08:12:11 PMHard to accept 9 is normal for these days. Goodnews I believe was expected to transfer.
Nine is an inflated number IMO. McMillan, Morgan and Robinson weren't expected to be on the roster next year anyway. Helm is a walk-on. Takes the number down to five. Lorange couldn't get healthy and probably isn't a D1 player. Kpegeol never seemed to fit in. The three big ones hurt. Clay, Ognacevic and Sackey.
I think you could also say Morgan and Goodnews may have stayed had they not seen the people we brought in. I said in a previous post, Goodnews and Morgan looked like they may be the odd men out of the rotation with all the transfers and promising freshmen on the roster. They may have sensed that as well and left/"retired" because they didn't want to spend another year sitting the bench.
Quote from: vuny98 on April 28, 2021, 08:37:58 PM
Quote from: Pgmado on April 28, 2021, 08:23:09 PMQuote from: Chairback on April 28, 2021, 08:12:11 PMHard to accept 9 is normal for these days. Goodnews I believe was expected to transfer.
Nine is an inflated number IMO. McMillan, Morgan and Robinson weren't expected to be on the roster next year anyway. Helm is a walk-on. Takes the number down to five. Lorange couldn't get healthy and probably isn't a D1 player. Kpegeol never seemed to fit in. The three big ones hurt. Clay, Ognacevic and Sackey.
I think you could also say Morgan and Goodnews may have stayed had they not seen the people we brought in. I said in a previous post, Goodnews and Morgan looked like they may be the odd men out of the rotation with all the transfers and promising freshmen on the roster. They may have sensed that as well and left/"retired" because they didn't want to spend another year sitting the bench.
I guess that means we can retire the argument that Matt isn't honest with his players. For all of his issues that doesn't appear to be one of them. Which makes sense because dishonesty would not square with how religious he is and also wouldn't fly at a school like Valpo.
Of our transfers out, Clay may be the only one to move upward to a stronger team or conference. Even that is arguable given the stature of our new faces.
Best of luck to each departing player. They came in as Crusaders and I will remember 20-21 as the last crusade.
Quote from: Pgmado on April 28, 2021, 08:23:09 PM
Quote from: Chairback on April 28, 2021, 08:12:11 PM
Hard to accept 9 is normal for these days.
Goodnews I believe was expected to transfer.
Nine is an inflated number IMO. McMillan, Morgan and Robinson weren't expected to be on the roster next year anyway. Helm is a walk-on. Takes the number down to five. Lorange couldn't get healthy and probably isn't a D1 player. Kpegeol never seemed to fit in. The three big ones hurt. Clay, Ognacevic and Sackey.
Of course you're right, but that doesn't support the "Matt has a problem" narrative, especially given that the average is almost 4 now.
What's up with Joe Hedstrom? He isn't listed on the roster and no news about his signing his papers. Some glich?
I believe he's only a verbal commit at this time but hasn't officially signed and until he does so the university cant acknowledge him
Goodnews officially in the transfer portal. Can't fault him, with the amount of talent that we are bringing in. He was probably hoping for a starting role with the folks leaving, and that quickly changed in the last few weeks.
I think this could have been expected for Goodnews. With his lack of consistency, I don't believe he would have been asked to to contribute much on game days. It has to be difficult to keep a team together: freshmen recruits are lured by the prospect of immediate playing time, and upperclassmen are not content if they aren't in the starting lineup or are getting significant minutes. I guess the bench is much more uncomfortable than it has been in the past.
I see that Illinois State's Abdou Ndiaye has entered the portal as well. As I see names, I wonder which are those of players looking to transfer up and which are athletes hoping for more playing time. Ndiaye seemed to have strong potential. Unless the Redbirds have brought in someone to play in front of him, I would presume that he is looking for an upgrade.
Quote from: humbleopinion on April 30, 2021, 05:34:15 AM
I think this could have been expected for Goodnews. With his lack of consistency, I don't believe he would have been asked to to contribute much on game days. It has to be difficult to keep a team together: freshmen recruits are lured by the prospect of immediate playing time, and upperclassmen are not content if they aren't in the starting lineup or are getting significant minutes. I guess the bench is much more uncomfortable than it has been in the past.
I see that Illinois State's Abdou Ndiaye has entered the portal as well. As I see names, I wonder which are those of players looking to transfer up and which are athletes hoping for more playing time. Ndiaye seemed to have strong potential. Unless the Redbirds have brought in someone to play in front of him, I would presume that he is looking for an upgrade.
Illinois State appears to be in free fall. They were young last year but now have lost over half of their points to transfer. Is Muller long for this coaching world?
Ndiaye is heading to Cal St Fullerton -- I hope he doesn't think of that as an upgrade!
PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT
Packer fans, you are hereby put on notice. My Bears finally drafted an elite QB (and great team leader), Justin Fields. No more "game managers." Your days are numbered.
RETURNING NOW TO REGULAR PROGRAMMING
Coach's take on transfers
https://twitter.com/FatherHarry1/status/1388462502862860288
Finally Joe is in the house!
http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/news/2020-21/20474/hedstrom-ruedinger-to-join-valpo-basketball-program/
In this chaos is it fair to say Valpo is in a better situation talentwise?
Quote from: usc4valpo on May 01, 2021, 11:14:16 AM
In this chaos is it fair to say Valpo is in a better situation talentwise?
I would say, ABSOLUTELY!! Think about it. What were our biggest problems last year? Well, first, we had point guards (Sackey and Zion) who shot a combined 8-47 from the three. The other guys lost to transfer (Helm, Siggy and Goodnews) shot a combined 7-44. Obviously we also lost our best three point shooter too. We have added a fifth year senior and three freshman who all shoot over 40%, plus, they are BIG.
So then another problem was rebounding. For the season we were out rebounded by a margin of 4 per game. We lost Donovan's 5.5 rpg but add two guys who played in the Big 10 who have man sized bodies.
So then we had scoring problems and added a senior who averaged over 20 points per game and freshman who can really score plus we keep Sheldon and get Connor back.
My guess is that we will be significantly better and of course, VERY deep.
I can't believe I'm about to say this with how negatively I reacted to the transfers of Clay and JO especially but yes. Our PGs now have size and can shoot which will help us and (I hope and believe) we should stop getting abused on the boards and in the front court. These were our two biggest most glaring weaknesses and hindered us a great deal in many games. The MVC is loaded this year but I have to believe that we'll be more competitive this year. I don't know if it will translate into wins because of how good the top of the conference is but we should be competitive in every game.
Great interview by Harry, second only to our own Paul Oren's group interview with our new recruiting class. Making a zoom conversation click with 4 high schoolers who you don't know and don't know each other was impressive, to say the least.
I would be very disappointed if we don't greatly improve our three point shooting and rebounding with the guys that are coming in. I expect our point guard play to be greatly improved as well. I think our defense may take a step back as Clay and Morgan were above average defenders and I don't have a feel for how good the new guys will be on defense. When Hedstrom is on the floor we may have a rim protector that we haven't had, so it may be a wash. Where we finish in conference will depend on how quickly the coaches can put all the pieces together. If the players mesh we could do very well. If they don't we'll be mediocre once again.
So If we have improved our talent significantly over last year, what is the expectation for next season?
To me middle of the pack doesn't cut it.
Quote from: Chairback on May 01, 2021, 06:27:19 PM
So If we have improved our talent significantly over last year, what is the expectation for next season?
To me middle of the pack doesn't cut it.
Just win, baby!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: Chairback on May 01, 2021, 06:27:19 PM
So If we have improved our talent significantly over last year, what is the expectation for next season?
To me middle of the pack doesn't cut it.
IMO we hit a home run in the portal after a home run recruiting class. Add in our key returning players, and I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect better than middle of the pack. Now's the time.
Quote from: Chairback on May 01, 2021, 06:27:19 PMSo If we have improved our talent significantly over last year, what is the expectation for next season?
With the length of the Barrett injury and with Emil rarely suited up we have only 3 fully familiar faces returning. :o We have nothing to compare this with and very little team play style successes we can build on. On paper we look great but sight unseen I don't want to place any bets!
Ask me again while I am eating my thanksgiving turkey. ;)
Quote from: wh on April 30, 2021, 02:06:06 PM
PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT
Packer fans, you are hereby put on notice. My Bears finally drafted an elite QB (and great team leader), Justin Fields. No more "game managers." Your days are numbered.
RETURNING NOW TO REGULAR PROGRAMMING
Always funny to watch bears fans every 3-4 years think they finally have a decent quarterback. You'd think they'd have learned their lesson by now, but it's an amusing tradition dating back to Sid Luckman.
Remember, this is Bears management, and they will find a way to mess this up.
Could the issue with some Bear QBs is the coaching and development ant not the actual mold of clay brought to the team? That may have been the issue with Trubisky, Grossman, etc.
Between one-and-done in the Power 5 and the impact of the transfer portal on just about everyone, it appears that building a cohesive roster over a period of seasons has been supplanted by 1-2 year mini-plans. Not good for mid-majors who traditionally have developed players who missed out on the top tier but grew into quality DI starters.
Does this mean that VU's best chance to get back into the tourney is for lightning to strike with a transfer or two, while somehow managing to hold on to a talented player or two who was developed from scratch -- followed by rinse-and-rebuild the next year?
Quote from: David81 on May 02, 2021, 12:22:08 PM
Between one-and-done in the Power 5 and the impact of the transfer portal on just about everyone, it appears that building a cohesive roster over a period of seasons has been supplanted by 1-2 year mini-plans. Not good for mid-majors who traditionally have developed players who missed out on the top tier but grew into quality DI starters.
Does this mean that VU's best chance to get back into the tourney is for lightning to strike with a transfer or two, while somehow managing to hold on to a talented player or two who was developed from scratch -- followed by rinse-and-rebuild the next year?
It is the new reality but one that Valpo can use to its advantage. Over the last two years we have lost players (the talented ones) who either didn't fit or had bigger plans (or at least their managers did). So how will it work for mid-majors? I think just fine. Valpo has a long history of bringing in transfers from Power 5 conferences who performed at a very high level once they landed at Valpo. Think of guys like Cory Johnson with 15 ppg and 6 boards after barely getting playing time at Iowa State. The guys we have added this off season, in my humble opinion, have significantly improved our chances because of the maturity and experience they bring. If you lose a kid after their freshman year, most have a ways to go before being able to fully assess their talent. We know full well what guys like Kithier, Anderson or Taylor can do. I, like many here, felt like the sky was falling but now think the sun may be shining brightly!
Quote from: David81 on May 02, 2021, 12:22:08 PM
Between one-and-done in the Power 5 and the impact of the transfer portal on just about everyone, it appears that building a cohesive roster over a period of seasons has been supplanted by 1-2 year mini-plans. Not good for mid-majors who traditionally have developed players who missed out on the top tier but grew into quality DI starters.
Does this mean that VU's best chance to get back into the tourney is for lightning to strike with a transfer or two, while somehow managing to hold on to a talented player or two who was developed from scratch -- followed by rinse-and-rebuild the next year?
I think that's it in a nutshell. That said, with 2 recruiting periods per year (traditional and portal) instead of one, advantage goes to programs with the best recruiting skills. I'll put Valpo's staff right up with the best mids based on what I see right now. These Wisconsin/Minnesota/Canada/Oklahoma/Florida connections seem to be broader than any other MVC program. Now, it's a matter of adjusting schemes and style of play to match your player skill set. Scott Drew has become a master at that. It's never one size fits all at Baylor.
When does the portal close? Or does it? Also, are there time limits on when someone in the portal can return to his original team?
I don't think the portal ever really closes although there are recruiting windows in the Spring and a brief one during the season. I believe there is no limit on time to return to the original school if that is what both parties desire but there has to be an opening for the player. Someone else can correct any wrong information but I think I understand this correctly.
If they aren't going to fill that last spot, could they reward Brock for being a 4th year walk on? I am not sure how that all works, but those walk ons usually bust their butt in practice for the sole purpose of bettering the team. They already have academic scholarships (so I assume) so the marginal cost isn't that significant.
Brock's Mom works in the Education Department... he's on Tuition Remission...(and she attends EVERY game in the ARC.)
Our extra scholarship might become a valuable asset and holding one in our pockets could pay off big. Until then we should watch, wait and listen. This is a great year and setup for something to come out of nowhere and if it does then we should know instantly!
Quote from: a3uge on May 01, 2021, 09:16:44 PM
Quote from: wh on April 30, 2021, 02:06:06 PM
PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT
Packer fans, you are hereby put on notice. My Bears finally drafted an elite QB (and great team leader), Justin Fields. No more "game managers." Your days are numbered.
RETURNING NOW TO REGULAR PROGRAMMING
Always funny to watch bears fans every 3-4 years think they finally have a decent quarterback. You'd think they'd have learned their lesson by now, but it's an amusing tradition dating back to Sid Luckman.
Sad, but true. It's like falling for the same April Fool's joke every year. Unfortunately, my euphoria has been tempered by my concern for Aaron Rodgers and the disgraceful way he has been treated by GB management. I wouldn't blame him at all if he decides to go somewhere else, possibly the other conference, like Brady did.
Did we know this about Thomas Kithier?
Paul Oren tweeted: Kithier committed to Valpo over offers from Indiana, Nebraska and Clemson. #MVCHoops :o
Quote from: vu72 on May 04, 2021, 02:22:08 PMDid we know this about Thomas Kithier? Paul Oren tweeted: Kithier committed to Valpo over offers from Indiana, Nebraska and Clemson. #MVCHoops :o
His role at Indiana, Nebraska and Clemson likely would have been much like it was at MSU. So it doesn't surprise me that he moved down if what he wanted was more playing time and to be more of a focal point.
That said, I really like the fact that he was offered Power 5 programs. Shows he is looked at very highly and likely on the same level of a mid-major star that is looking to move up.
Quote from: vuny98 on May 04, 2021, 03:39:50 PM
Quote from: vu72 on May 04, 2021, 02:22:08 PMDid we know this about Thomas Kithier? Paul Oren tweeted: Kithier committed to Valpo over offers from Indiana, Nebraska and Clemson. #MVCHoops :o
His role at Indiana, Nebraska and Clemson likely would have been much like it was at MSU. So it doesn't surprise me that he moved down if what he wanted was more playing time and to be more of a focal point.
That said, I really like the fact that he was offered Power 5 programs. Shows he is looked at very highly and likely on the same level of a mid-major star that is looking to move up.
Why should we assume he moved down? Dare to dream big! I'll guarantee our B10 transfers are.
It will be interesting to see how the bigs share minutes at the 4 & 5. Starting out, I see Krikke & Kithier getting 60 plus between them with Hedstrom getting most of the rest and Emile getting a minute or two here and there if he is healthy. I think it might take Hedstrom a while to work himself into serious game minutes as I think he didn't get many at Wisconsin given injuries and the guys he was playing behind. The time off due to injury has set Emile even farther behind, and I don't expect much from him in terms of contributing in games next year. Young may actually see more minutes at the 4 if one or more of the other bigs get in foul trouble. He has the height for it, but that slender body will likely get pushed around by bigger bodied 4s. It will be interesting to see how the rotation of the bigs develops over the season.
Quote from: wh on May 04, 2021, 05:35:06 PM
Quote from: vuny98 on May 04, 2021, 03:39:50 PM
Quote from: vu72 on May 04, 2021, 02:22:08 PMDid we know this about Thomas Kithier? Paul Oren tweeted: Kithier committed to Valpo over offers from Indiana, Nebraska and Clemson. #MVCHoops :o
His role at Indiana, Nebraska and Clemson likely would have been much like it was at MSU. So it doesn't surprise me that he moved down if what he wanted was more playing time and to be more of a focal point.
That said, I really like the fact that he was offered Power 5 programs. Shows he is looked at very highly and likely on the same level of a mid-major star that is looking to move up.
Why should we assume he moved down? Dare to dream big! I'll guarantee our B10 transfers are.
This seems like a good time to ask a difficult question. Both Kithier and Anderson should arrive with clear mental pictures of what expanded roles, expectations and limits should now surround them. One article suggested Kithier will have the green light much further from the basket and that is fine as long as they go in but what if they don't? Matt may have made some real or implied promises that could easily lead to future misunderstanding with particular individuals or even team wide. Clarity and communication have always been important and perhaps even more so with this "free agency" approach. Thought?
Quote from: justducky on May 05, 2021, 10:59:30 AM
Quote from: wh on May 04, 2021, 05:35:06 PM
Quote from: vuny98 on May 04, 2021, 03:39:50 PM
Quote from: vu72 on May 04, 2021, 02:22:08 PMDid we know this about Thomas Kithier? Paul Oren tweeted: Kithier committed to Valpo over offers from Indiana, Nebraska and Clemson. #MVCHoops :o
His role at Indiana, Nebraska and Clemson likely would have been much like it was at MSU. So it doesn't surprise me that he moved down if what he wanted was more playing time and to be more of a focal point.
That said, I really like the fact that he was offered Power 5 programs. Shows he is looked at very highly and likely on the same level of a mid-major star that is looking to move up.
Why should we assume he moved down? Dare to dream big! I'll guarantee our B10 transfers are.
This seems like a good time to ask a difficult question. Both Kithier and Anderson should arrive with clear mental pictures of what expanded roles, expectations and limits should now surround them. One article suggested Kithier will have the green light much further from the basket and that is fine as long as they go in but what if they don't? Matt may have made some real or implied promises that could easily lead to future misunderstanding with particular individuals or even team wide. Clarity and communication have always been important and perhaps even more so with this "free agency" approach. Thought?
No doubt Matt has a whole new bunch of challenges given the "brave new world" he faces. Hopefully his experience together with his staff will be up to those challenges. The good news is guys like Anderson and Kithier are fifth year seniors coming from first class big time programs. I would hope that a kid with years of experience under a coach like Tom Izzo wouldn't be a lose cannon. These guys coupled with guys like Eron and Emil and even Connor and Sheldon, should make the new guys blend in. It isn't the case that any of the freshman will think that they are the "savior" so "give me the ball", at least until they have proven that their shots go in at a clip faster than guys who are 23 years old!
Whatever the blend next season, Coach will have a huge challenge in molding a good unit that plays as a team, especially considering how many new faces will be there in key positions. I am anxious to see how the team develops as I am sure it will take a few games to get a good feel for the talent, what type of offense and defense is best for this group. It should be a fun season.
[/quote]
No doubt Matt has a whole new bunch of challenges given the "brave new world" he faces. Hopefully his experience together with his staff will be up to those challenges. The good news is guys like Anderson and Kithier are fifth year seniors coming from first class big time programs. I would hope that a kid with years of experience under a coach like Tom Izzo wouldn't be a lose cannon. These guys coupled with guys like Eron and Emil and even Connor and Sheldon, should make the new guys blend in. It isn't the case that any of the freshman will think that they are the "savior" so "give me the ball", at least until they have proven that their shots go in at a clip faster than guys who are 23 years old!
[/quote]
I've never heard any negative stories about Kithier in the years he played at Michigan State. I don't think he should be anything but a good team mate.
Big Ten U might not be done in the portal yet.
Quote from: NotBryceDrew on May 06, 2021, 02:41:14 PM
Big Ten U might not be done in the portal yet.
Thank you, thank you! Anything to distract me from the podcast nonsense.
Any word on who we might be looking at? If I had to guess it would be another big man right? Maybe someone to reprise the role JO was supposed to play as a stretch big?
This is an interesting twist to the transfer mess.
Valley new Commissioner is quoted concerning NCAA clarification on transfers: Jackson says players that have transferred previously and are not graduate students, have already used up their ability to transfer without eligibility impunity.
I presume this means a guy like Goodnews is going to have to sit a year. That is the case with many in the portal.
Quote from: vu72 on May 10, 2021, 08:19:18 AMValley new Commissioner is quoted concerning NCAA clarification on transfers: Jackson says players that have transferred previously and are not graduate students, have already used up their ability to transfer without eligibility impunity.
I presume this means a guy like Goodnews is going to have to sit a year. That is the case with many in the portal.
Should Hedstrom blossom to significance will this incentivize his staying for at least 2 seasons?
Not if he is on pace to graduate early, and utilize the Grad Transfer rule.
Quote from: justducky on May 10, 2021, 10:31:55 AMShould Hedstrom blossom to significance will this incentivize his staying for at least 2 seasons?
Quote from: valpotx on May 10, 2021, 11:48:09 PMNot if he is on pace to graduate early, and utilize the Grad Transfer rule.
Nothing Hedstrom specific but we all know the difficulties involved in center development and getting even any payoff on our center project efforts. If Joe is more project than substance I would be cautious about feeding him minutes. Obviously this is a call for Matt and not us but when the door to leave is wide open and penalty free; then how much of recruiting and retention is just going with gut instincts? Gut instinct is not a very reliable business model for success!
Going forward every potential recruit should be vetted to determine if they possess 2 character traits that seem to be in short supply:
• a strong internal locus of control
• an indelible sense of gratitude
"Cultivate the habit of being grateful for every good thing that comes to you, and to give thanks continuously. And because all things have contributed to your advancement, you should include all things in your gratitude."
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Quote from: wh on May 11, 2021, 06:30:01 PM"Cultivate the habit of being grateful for every good thing that comes to you, and to give thanks continuously. And because all things have contributed to your advancement, you should include all things in your gratitude."
Ralph Waldo Emerson
So is Hedstrom a great-great-great grandson of Emerson?
Quote from: justducky on May 11, 2021, 06:59:24 PM
Quote from: wh on May 11, 2021, 06:30:01 PM"Cultivate the habit of being grateful for every good thing that comes to you, and to give thanks continuously. And because all things have contributed to your advancement, you should include all things in your gratitude."
Ralph Waldo Emerson
So is Hedstrom a great-great-great grandson of Emerson?
Let's hope every member of the current roster is a "descendant" of Emerson. That would be a welcome change.
Quote from: wh on May 11, 2021, 10:50:36 PM
Let's hope every member of the current roster is a "descendant" of Emerson. That would be a welcome change.
A welcome change, yet I'd settle for them knowing who Emerson was.
Quote from: wh on May 11, 2021, 06:30:01 PM
Going forward every potential recruit should be vetted to determine if they possess 2 character traits that seem to be in short supply:
• a strong internal locus of control
• an indelible sense of gratitude
"Cultivate the habit of being grateful for every good thing that comes to you, and to give thanks continuously. And because all things have contributed to your advancement, you should include all things in your gratitude."
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Wow! You never know where the intellectual side of the discussion in this forum will go. Psychological characteristics and Emerson!
Beyond the validity of being grateful for all things that have contributed to one's advancement, the internal locus of control comment is also very valid. Internal locus of control is positively associated with many outcomes – performance, latitude of action, strategic change. Believing that your decisions and actions will not affect outcomes is a very unhealthy way to pursue your life and it would be very hard to lead any organization that is heavily comprised of externals.
Quote from: vu84v2 on May 12, 2021, 09:18:32 AM
Quote from: wh on May 11, 2021, 06:30:01 PM
Going forward every potential recruit should be vetted to determine if they possess 2 character traits that seem to be in short supply:
• a strong internal locus of control
• an indelible sense of gratitude
"Cultivate the habit of being grateful for every good thing that comes to you, and to give thanks continuously. And because all things have contributed to your advancement, you should include all things in your gratitude."
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Wow! You never know where the intellectual side of the discussion in this forum will go. Psychological characteristics and Emerson!
Beyond the validity of being grateful for all things that have contributed to one's advancement, the internal locus of control comment is also very valid. Internal locus of control is positively associated with many outcomes – performance, latitude of action, strategic change. Believing that your decisions and actions will not affect outcomes is a very unhealthy way to pursue your life and it would be very hard to lead any organization that is heavily comprised of externals.
I would argue that the military (especially the enlisted) is based on external locus of control -- you don't think, you just do as ordered or trained to do. (Ours is not to reason why...)
Wisconsin Crusaders Alumni Playing In College
"Jacob Ognacevic - Sheboygan Lutheran - Valparaiso, IN - D-1"
https://www.missionbasketball.org/page/show/2889483-wisconsin-crusaders-alumni
Interesting coincidences that Jacob Ognacevic, who went to Sheboygan LUTHERAN and coincidentally played for the Wisconsin CRUSADERS and then coincidentally the Valparaiso CRUSADERS, coincidentally quit Valpo in the year the CRUSADER was coincidentally axed and stated coincidentally that the university misrepresented itself.
I had a hard time hearing and accepting the mass exodus. I guess I just wanted Daniel and Mileek and the others to be successful after watching them for the last few years. You become invested in them as a fan.
However I have a overwhelming amount of anticipation for next year and more excited about seeing Valpo play than I've had had in many many years. I don't know why. Maybe it feels like a fresh new start with the team or maybe not being able to see games at the ARC in person. But man do I have very strong interest in next season.
Quote from: Chairback on May 17, 2021, 07:15:29 PM
I had a hard time hearing and accepting the mass exodus. I guess I just wanted Daniel and Mileek and the others to be successful after watching them for the last few years. You become invested in them as a fan.
However I have a overwhelming amount of anticipation for next year and more excited about seeing Valpo play than I've had had in many many years. I don't know why. Maybe it feels like a fresh new start with the team or maybe not being able to see games at the ARC in person. But man do I have very strong interest in next season.
Or maybe just maybe we've finally turned the corner and will begin to get our legs under us in this conference in a significant way next year. With how good the MVC should be I will take a fifth place finish but I obviously hope for more.
Quote from: Chairback on May 17, 2021, 07:15:29 PM
I had a hard time hearing and accepting the mass exodus. I guess I just wanted Daniel and Mileek and the others to be successful after watching them for the last few years. You become invested in them as a fan.
However I have a overwhelming amount of anticipation for next year and more excited about seeing Valpo play than I've had had in many many years. I don't know why. Maybe it feels like a fresh new start with the team or maybe not being able to see games at the ARC in person. But man do I have very strong interest in next season.
Hold up...who are you, and what did you do with Chairback? ;)
Quote from: Chairback on May 17, 2021, 07:15:29 PMI had a hard time hearing and accepting the mass exodus
Mass exodus indeed. But, we were hardly alone. The current total in the transfer portal is 1603. For those scoring at home that is a 56.5% increase over last year. Having said that, I'm with chairback on the hope for better days ahead and the positive outlook for Valpo basketball. Hopefully it will be a very exciting time.
Life just got a little bit easier. Elijah Childs is in the transfer portal.
Am I correct that everyone who played last year received an extra year meaning the transfer portal will be buzzing for 3 more years. I assume only grad transfers being instantly eligible.
Also individual career records could be broken by guys/gals playing 5 years. Do they get an *?
Quote from: vu72 on May 20, 2021, 09:33:27 AM
Life just got a little bit easier. Elijah Childs is in the transfer portal.
He needed a new start anyways, as his reputation was going to travel along with him every stop in the MVC...
So, the general feeling is that we upgraded with the players that we are bringing in versus who we have lost. I am curious-has anyone looked at how we compare to other teams in MVC?
I can't imagine the transfer portal will be humming along this much over the next year or two just because the constraint on spots is just going to get worse as coaches wnat to bring in high school recruits as well.
Quote from: crusader05 on May 21, 2021, 07:05:34 AM
I can't imagine the transfer portal will be humming along this much over the next year or two just because the constraint on spots is just going to get worse as coaches wnat to bring in high school recruits as well.
I agree. It appears that about 40% of the athletes that have entered the portal have not yet found a new school.
I tend to think that eventually this transfer portal will level out, it will most likely always be higher than it was but as coaches learn to recruit with the portal in mind and it becomes a more risky proposition I could see the numbers dipping down.
Programs will develop to either live and die by the portal and others will adjust their recruiting to be more cautious about types of players they bring in.
Quote from: humbleopinion on May 21, 2021, 08:07:37 AM
Quote from: crusader05 on May 21, 2021, 07:05:34 AM
I can't imagine the transfer portal will be humming along this much over the next year or two just because the constraint on spots is just going to get worse as coaches wnat to bring in high school recruits as well.
I agree. It appears that about 40% of the athletes that have entered the portal have not yet found a new school.
It appears that some players are going to understand for the first time that they have been getting "paid" to play college basketball in the form of free tuition, housing, fees, food, etc., when they're on the outside looking in.
My new hypothesis about the transfer portal and NCAA transfer rules, as applied to mid-majors:
1. Stars (e.g., JFL) and budding stars (e.g., JO) at mid-majors will be increasingly hot commodities both for P6 schools looking to bolster their rosters and for other mid-majors who can offer a seemingly better fit. This may become the mid-major equivalent of one-and-done, or maybe two-and-through, faced by big name programs with their top recruits looking to the NBA draft.
2. Role and bench players at P6 schools will increasingly look to mid-majors as second chances to be successful starters, but most will not be genuine stars at their new schools. Instead, they will most likely be solid starters and key reserves. The ones who become standouts could be the difference between a decent season and an NCAA tournament season.
3. Roster construction at the mid-major level will be an annual re-sorting exercise, changing on a dime, rather than a multi-year planning process. The mid-major that retains its star players for 4 years will be among the unusual, lucky ones.
Quote from: David81 on May 22, 2021, 09:29:15 AM
My new hypothesis about the transfer portal and NCAA transfer rules, as applied to mid-majors:
1. Stars (e.g., JFL) and budding stars (e.g., JO) at mid-majors will be increasingly hot commodities both for P6 schools looking to bolster their rosters and for other mid-majors who can offer a seemingly better fit. This may become the mid-major equivalent of one-and-done, or maybe two-and-through, faced by big name programs with their top recruits looking to the NBA draft.
2. Role and bench players at P6 schools will increasingly look to mid-majors as second chances to be successful starters, but most will not be genuine stars at their new schools. Instead, they will most likely be solid starters and key reserves. The ones who become standouts could be the difference between a decent season and an NCAA tournament season.
3. Roster construction at the mid-major level will be an annual re-sorting exercise, changing on a dime, rather than a multi-year planning process. The mid-major that retains its star players for 4 years will be among the unusual, lucky ones.
I don't disagree with these points, but I also contend that mid-majors in their recruiting may place a greater emphasis on finding players who are more likely to stay with their program for three or four years (prioritizing that, to some degree, over talent). Most of the mid-major teams who have advanced in the NCAA tournament over the last 20 years have had quite a few players who had been with that program for two or three years.
Quote from: David81 on May 22, 2021, 09:29:15 AM
My new hypothesis about the transfer portal and NCAA transfer rules, as applied to mid-majors:
1. Stars (e.g., JFL) and budding stars (e.g., JO) at mid-majors will be increasingly hot commodities both for P6 schools looking to bolster their rosters and for other mid-majors who can offer a seemingly better fit. This may become the mid-major equivalent of one-and-done, or maybe two-and-through, faced by big name programs with their top recruits looking to the NBA draft.
2. Role and bench players at P6 schools will increasingly look to mid-majors as second chances to be successful starters, but most will not be genuine stars at their new schools. Instead, they will most likely be solid starters and key reserves. The ones who become standouts could be the difference between a decent season and an NCAA tournament season.
3. Roster construction at the mid-major level will be an annual re-sorting exercise, changing on a dime, rather than a multi-year planning process. The mid-major that retains its star players for 4 years will be among the unusual, lucky ones.
Yep, multi-year recruiting plans will become basically extinct. Historically, recruiting has revolved around a known variable - players in their final year of eligibility. That will still be important, but may in fact become secondary to recruiting the portal in the 30-60 day period following the end of the season. Why? Because, in most cases, incoming transfers will have more impact on next year's season than incoming freshmen.
Once we get past the extra year of eligibility anomaly, when the deck gets reshuffled with transfers moving from 1 program to another, theoretically half of all programs will have improved their prospects; the other half will be worse off. Recruiting the portal will become a critical recruiting component.
As to Valpo, IMO there is little doubt that next year's "post-portal" roster is significantly better than our "pre-portal" roster. Not only are we among the "winners, we could be in the top half of that half. '1314 stated that he would settle for 5th and hope for more. Personally, I expect a top 3 finish, but will begrudgingly settle for 4th.
Here's what "turning on a dime" doesn't mean. It doesn't mean that it's ok to lose early season games because we haven't had time to work on certain offensive or defensive schemes, as Bryce used to be famous for saying. Or, treating early season losses as if they're meaningless exhibition games with dismissive Matt/Luke quips like "what counts is who's playing the best basketball in March, or "it may not show on the scoreboard, but we're getting better." Those lines may have worked in the Horizon or Mid Con, but they ring pretty hollow in a league where winning or losing early season games becomes critical in deciding at-large bids. It's also incumbent on every team in the Valley to win as many OOC games as possible to raise the league's NET. However difficult it was in the past to get the players fully prepared from game-1, it's going to be more difficult now than ever before, but never more important.
Two instances of losing games due to lack of preparation are "indelible in my hippocampus." They are unique, given that both occurred at the end of the season, not the beginning. They happened to different coaches, yet were identical in nature.
Can anyone guess the games I'm referring to? If no one comes up with the answer, I'll add some hints.
Quote from: wh on May 25, 2021, 09:39:53 AM
Two instances of losing games due to lack of preparation are "indelible in my hippocampus." They are unique, given that both occurred at the end of the season, not the beginning. They happened to different coaches, yet were identical in nature.
Can anyone guess the games I'm referring to? If no one comes up with the answer, I'll add some hints.
Our loss to Loyola on 2/17 and SIU's loss to us on 2/21?
Good guess, but not the games I'm thinking of.
Hint: These identical coaching blunders happened in back-to-back seasons under 2 different head coaches.
I am thinking the loss to Miami (FL) in the NIT is one of them, so given that it is two different coaches I will say that the other is the CIT tournament game against Iona the year before. But this is just a guess.
Quote from: wh on May 25, 2021, 10:27:08 AM
Good guess, but not the games I'm thinking of.
Hint: These identical coaching blunders happened in back-to-back seasons under 2 different head coaches.
Not what I'm thinking of, 84v2, but actually a very good guess given the limited amount of information you had to work with. This next hint may add some clarity.
New hint:
• 2 games
• identical blunders
• 2 different coaches
• back-to-back seasons
• end of the season, not the beginning
• NEW HINT - These identical coaching blunders occurred in preparation for the game, not during the game itself.
I believe it's not using the extra day of shoot around time for the final Horizon League conference game under Bryce's last year and Matt not doing it either under his first season
Quote from: crusader05 on May 25, 2021, 11:34:52 AM
I believe it's not using the extra day of shoot around time for the final Horizon League conference game under Bryce's last year and Matt not doing it either under his first season
...and the winner is crusader05!!! :thumbsup:
• Inexplicably, Bryce decided not to go up to Detroit a day early and use their scheduled shoot around on a court we had never played on before. We lost to GB in OT. We were heavily favored.
• Incredibly, Matt pulled exactly the same blunder the next year. We lost by 2 to a hapless Milwaukee team that we drummed twice during the regular season.
If it's 2 seasons with 2 coaches, can it be someone else's fault other than the coach? AD? Higher admin?
Does the coach get to decide when the team travels to the tournament? Could AD/higher admin look to save an extra day of travel etc? I honestly don't know.
Quote from: elephtheria47 on May 25, 2021, 12:20:08 PM
If it's 2 seasons with 2 coaches, can it be someone else's fault other than the coach? AD? Higher admin?
Does the coach get to decide when the team travels to the tournament? Could AD/higher admin look to save an extra day of travel etc? I honestly don't know.
As inexplicable as it was then, imagine it happening now. This board would be on fire. lol
Quote from: wh on May 25, 2021, 10:54:27 PMQuote from: elephtheria47 on May 25, 2021, 12:20:08 PMIf it's 2 seasons with 2 coaches, can it be someone else's fault other than the coach? AD? Higher admin? Does the coach get to decide when the team travels to the tournament? Could AD/higher admin look to save an extra day of travel etc? I honestly don't know.
As inexplicable as it was then, imagine it happening now. This board would be on fire. lol
Less we forget the game against Milwaukee, I believe the fact Peters was out and it was either Tevon or Shane played with the Flu were a major factors in that loss.
Lol right. Id be the first one harping too lol.. If that's what it was, we have a higher hill to climb than I thought, and really inexcusable in any scenario, then or now. Just know the university is cash strapped and was wondering if it was a coach decision or university decision .
Lorange has transferred to Converse College soon to be University and admitting men for the first time next fall, D2 school in S.C.
Quote from: IndyValpo on June 07, 2021, 12:49:57 PM
Lorange has transferred to Converse College soon to be University and admitting men for the first time next fall, D2 school in S.C.
Obviously then, we made a HUGE mistake is giving him a D1 scholarship.
Quote from: vu72 on June 07, 2021, 01:41:43 PMQuote from: IndyValpo on June 07, 2021, 12:49:57 PMLorange has transferred to Converse College soon to be University and admitting men for the first time next fall, D2 school in S.C.
Obviously then, we made a HUGE mistake is giving him a D1 scholarship.
Hindsight is 20/20. I don't fault them taking a shot at a project with the hope that he could turn into something good (the need for a sharpshooter at 3 was a big need at the time). Valpo has made a living at finding the diamond in the rough, so they need to take these risks sometimes. That said, he didn't pan out and from a pure basketball standpoint not sad to see him leave. Just another example that of all transfers we had this year, there were really only a few that should "count".
Quote from: vuny98 on June 07, 2021, 03:41:53 PM
Quote from: vu72 on June 07, 2021, 01:41:43 PMQuote from: IndyValpo on June 07, 2021, 12:49:57 PMLorange has transferred to Converse College soon to be University and admitting men for the first time next fall, D2 school in S.C.
Obviously then, we made a HUGE mistake is giving him a D1 scholarship.
Hindsight is 20/20. I don't fault them taking a shot at a project with the hope that he could turn into something good (the need for a sharpshooter at 3 was a big need at the time). Valpo has made a living at finding the diamond in the rough, so they need to take these risks sometimes. That said, he didn't pan out and from a pure basketball standpoint not sad to see him leave. Just another example that of all trasfers we had this year, there were really only a few that should "count".
Don't forget the musical chairs factor unique to this season - more players in the portal than available positions. Some number of players toward the bottom of the pecking order were destined to be on the outside looking in.
Quote from: vu72 on June 07, 2021, 01:41:43 PMQuote from: IndyValpo on June 07, 2021, 12:49:57 PMLorange has transferred to Converse College soon to be University and admitting men for the first time next fall, D2 school in S.C.
Obviously then, we made a HUGE mistake is giving him a D1 scholarship.
Wasn't he injured a lot? I never looked at him as a high end recruit and for a marginal player I'd think playing time/practice time would be monumentally important.
I always thought that he was just too short to have success as a shooter in the MVC. He would need a couple more yards of space to get a shot off without it getting blocked than shooters in the 6' 4" range, and he wasn't quick enough to create that much space. I hope he excels at Converse.
Check out the picture of Luke Gore at the White Sox game. It sure looks like some players are either in town or decided to meet Luke at the game. I see Thomas Kithier and Joe Hedstrom and maybe Keyondre Young? Connor Barrett? Kevion Taylor? Darius DeAveiro? Preston Ruedinger?
https://twitter.com/ValpoBasketball
https://twitter.com/hoops_mvc/status/1405298731499536390?s=20
I know more about Valpo players to watch than whoever put this list together. There's no valid reason to leave Joe Hedstrom off. Therefore, he is officially included in my list of transfers to watch.
Quote from: wh on June 18, 2021, 02:07:55 AM
https://twitter.com/hoops_mvc/status/1405298731499536390?s=20
I know more about Valpo players to watch than whoever put this list together. There's no valid reason to leave Joe Hedstrom off. Therefore, he is officially included in my list of transfers to watch.
Well, he'll be hard to miss.
Quote from: wh on June 18, 2021, 02:07:55 AMThere's no valid reason to leave Joe Hedstrom off. Therefore, he is officially included in my list of transfers to watch.
Put me in the "wait and see" camp concerning Hedstrom. Best case I can imagine him being a solid contributor and still getting under 18 minutes per game. :o. Our fall "over-under" projections should be interesting. None of us have adequate information to properly sort it out!
Quote from: justducky on June 19, 2021, 10:35:11 AM
Quote from: wh on June 18, 2021, 02:07:55 AMThere's no valid reason to leave Joe Hedstrom off. Therefore, he is officially included in my list of transfers to watch.
Put me in the "wait and see" camp concerning Hedstrom. Best case I can imagine him being a solid contributor and still getting under 18 minutes per game. :o. Our fall "over-under" projections should be interesting. None of us have adequate information to properly sort it out!
Preach!
Indiana State loses another starter to transfer. Randy Miller Jr. scored 27 in two games versus us last season. Grand total now up to 1684. Every time I think it is over another one or two hit the portal. Amazing process.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/madison.com/sports/college/basketball/men/listen-now-badgers-dmitrik-trice-trevor-anderson-vent-to-coach-greg-gard/video_e82f27b1-3036-5293-8b48-2914a15f21fa.amp.html (https://www.google.com/amp/s/madison.com/sports/college/basketball/men/listen-now-badgers-dmitrik-trice-trevor-anderson-vent-to-coach-greg-gard/video_e82f27b1-3036-5293-8b48-2914a15f21fa.amp.html)
We are becoming Southern Wisconsin
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1409990077590220805
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1409989146484039688
This is great news.
Greg Gard's players clearly have issues with his coaching style and personality.
Geez. I am trying to not get too excited about this next season...but that has become very difficult
Wowser!! What a collection of talent on the roster!! Hope they mesh together well and quickly!! Kobe King per Verbal Commits was a 3.7 star recruit and Wisconsin Mr. Basketball coming out of high school.
Wonder if anybody will use a redshirt season? Would love to watch the upcoming team scrimmages in the battle for PT!!
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
I'm trying not to be hyperbolic here but WOW! This might be the biggest most impactful transfer (in terms of prior resume before coming to Valpo) we've EVER gotten! This is HUGE! We might have a real shot at being a top 4 MVC team now! I'm so excited!
Am I reading the article correctly that King will need to sit out the first semester? Also, here is a video that was posted when it appeared King was headed to Nebraska:
Awesome news. I'm thinking maybe we should just go by the Valparaiso Badgers!
Quote from: valpotx on June 29, 2021, 05:56:19 PM
Geez. I am trying to not get too excited about this next season...but that has become very difficult
Exciting News!!!! :thumbsup:
Can't wait to see how this plays out.
I'm drinking the kool-aid now.
So why does he have to sit most of the non-con out? Does anybody know?
When do I send in my money for season tickets?
We don't have enough minutes to go around. I would have never thought we would be in this situation when people started leaving.
If you do a comparison of who left vs who came in it's not just a little improvement, it's multiple levels improvement.
Will be interesting to see how Lottich does with this team and how he manages it.
IS it related to the half season he played at Wisconsin?
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on June 29, 2021, 08:15:33 PM
So why does he have to sit most of the non-con out? Does anybody know?
Someone knows, but I don't. My guess is he has to serve some sort of suspension because he signed with an agent. That normally erases any remaining NCAA eligibility, but it sounds like he appealed and was reinstated. I assume sitting out a few games was his negotiated "penalty".
I believe it's because he signed with an agent. Will get official word once he is officially signed.
My guess is that he plays one season with us, and either goes pro, or uses a graduate transfer. Smart move on his behalf, to go somewhere where he can be a focal point, since he didn't play last season.
So this is beyond bizarre and how the team messes through all this will be VERY interesting to say the least.
So if I'm not mistaken, up to this season we have had exactly ONE former Mr. Basketball from any state play for us. That was a guy named Bryce Drew. This season we will have THREE on the team all at once! Top four expectation need to be upgraded.
All I know is we now have a Wisconsin Associated Press First Team All State player on our team--as a WALK-ON!!!
Quote from: vu72 on June 30, 2021, 08:13:19 AMSo this is beyond bizarre and how the team messes through all this will be VERY interesting to say the least. So if I'm not mistaken, up to this season we have had exactly ONE former Mr. Basketball from any state play for us. That was a guy named Bryce Drew. This season we will have THREE on the team all at once! Top four expectation need to be upgraded. All I know is we now have a Wisconsin Associated Press First Team All State player on our team--as a WALK-ON!!!
I totally get that optimism but mostly I'm tempering things right now because we haven't seen how they play together and also out of respect for how good some of the rosters are and will be in this league. We could definitely challenge for the top (which means I hope we're trying to schedule better) but right now I'd say it's far from a given. Loyola Drake UNI Missouri State and perhaps SIU are all going to be really good this year. This is going to be a really fun year and we definitely have the talent to compete here.
King is buddies with Trevor Anderson, and I think that had a lot to do with him coming to Valpo. He's hugely talented. One of the most talented kids ever to play at the prep level in Wisconsin, for sure. Good kid, just had some emotional struggles at Madison. He looked like a sure-fire NBA guy, maybe even a 1-and-done, and when that doesn't happen sometimes the pressure and disappointment gets to guys.
If he has his head in a good place, watch out. He's skilled and a spectacular athlete.
I expect the beginning of the season to be a little rough as the team works toward cohesiveness. I am optimistic that come January, the team will have their roles figured out and will be a force to be reckoned with. With the team trip to the Bahamas, there should be plenty of time for team bonding, which always helps down the road. It will be exciting for sure. Just hope the ARC is packed with all the excitement.
Quote from: bb33 on June 30, 2021, 10:18:59 AMI expect the beginning of the season to be a little rough as the team works toward cohesiveness. I am optimistic that come January, the team will have their roles figured out and will be a force to be reckoned with. With the team trip to the Bahamas, there should be plenty of time for team bonding, which always helps down the road. It will be exciting for sure. Just hope the ARC is packed with all the excitement.
This is likely to an issue across the sport with the number of transfers which have occurred. That said, Valpo has nearly a completely new roster so it could affect the Lottich's more.
Only One basketball with many scoring options this year. Taylor, Sheldon, Barrett, Anderson, Palesse, Gordon, now King.
Who's the alpha male of this group. Also Young isn't just a back to the basket player in the post. Will be interesting to see how we share the ball and handle playing time/roles.
You forgot to add Ben who was the alpha last year. And I'm sure he has improved again.
I agree that this level of talent creates a lot of potential for the upcoming season. But with Valpo, as well as some other teams that have signed transfers this late in offseason, I wonder about the reactions of existing players whose roles may suddenly be changing. In this case, let's say that a player believes in April that he will be starting and playing 30 minutes per game in the upcoming season. The player was not planning to transfer and that expectation makes his commitment to stay stronger (likely aided by the coach giving him an idea of where he stands). Then, in late June a transfer is signed who will (at a minimum) take half of that playing time - and possibly a lot more. The player is now relegated to maybe 15 minutes per game as a role player off the bench. Does that player try to transfer late in the game? I know that this has always happened to some degree, but it seems like this will happen a lot more with the new transfer rules.
I don't mean to be a downer when Valpo signs a high quality transfer - and I hope that it works out great at Valpo. It just seems on a national level that many more players' roles on their teams are changing than has ever happened before. And with the deadline to drop out of the NBA draft much later this year, there is another shakeout forthcoming.
Quote from: Chairback on June 30, 2021, 02:43:18 PM
You forgot to add Ben who was the alpha last year. And I'm sure he has improved again.
I just hope that the young guys understand the unique situation for this coming year and that the log jam will subside once the five and six year guys leave and free up some playing time. The paper did say that King will have two years of eligibility but Eron, Kevion, and Trevor will be one and done.
A lot of kids today expect immediate gratification. Hopefully, if they are not getting the minutes they expected, that we are at least winning, and they in turn are learning. This year a lot of freshmen are lucky to get a seat at the table, much less play. This will for most be a learning and adapting year. For upperclassmen, that could be a harder pill to swallow. Hopefully Lottich and staff can build a strong sense of team, and no matter how much you play, you feel you are a contributor to something bigger.
Quote from: vu84v2 on June 30, 2021, 03:14:27 PM
I agree that this level of talent creates a lot of potential for the upcoming season. But with Valpo, as well as some other teams that have signed transfers this late in offseason, I wonder about the reactions of existing players whose roles may suddenly be changing.
Team chemistry. One of the most important, and also one of the most overlooked, factors in a team's success.
Paul
Quote from: justducky on April 28, 2021, 06:41:21 PMThat puts my count at 13 eligible scholarship players and this might be a great time to stop. OK maybe a whale jumps in our boat but other than that I think we are good. We have gotten by with 11 so why would we ever need 14?
That whale I was talking about just jumped in our boat. Was Matt actually recruiting him hard or did he just want to rejoin his teammates in a comfortable situation? Either way we need a bigger boat! :o
Wait! I'd forgotten that we already have an ARC. :thumbsup:
Quote from: vu72 on June 30, 2021, 08:13:19 AM
So this is beyond bizarre and how the team messes through all this will be VERY interesting to say the least.
So if I'm not mistaken, up to this season we have had exactly ONE former Mr. Basketball from any state play for us. That was a guy named Bryce Drew. This season we will have THREE on the team all at once! Top four expectation need to be upgraded.
All I know is we now have a Wisconsin Associated Press First Team All State player on our team--as a WALK-ON!!!
Adding to your comment, of our 10* players who played HS basketball in the U.S., 5 were 1st team all-state and 1 2nd team all-state:
1st Team All-State
1. Trevor Anderson - Wisconsin, 2016 - Mr. Basketball
2. Kobe King - Wisconsin, 2017 - Mr. Basketball
3. Sheldon Edwards - Florida, 2019
4. Keyondre Young - Oklahoma, 2021 - Mr. Basketball
5. Preston Ruedinger - Wisconsin, 2021
2nd Team
6. Cam Palesse -Wisconsin, 2021
*Tom Kithier did not play bb in his senior year.
Quote from: wh on July 02, 2021, 10:40:26 PM
Quote from: vu72 on June 30, 2021, 08:13:19 AM
So this is beyond bizarre and how the team messes through all this will be VERY interesting to say the least.
So if I'm not mistaken, up to this season we have had exactly ONE former Mr. Basketball from any state play for us. That was a guy named Bryce Drew. This season we will have THREE on the team all at once! Top four expectation need to be upgraded.
All I know is we now have a Wisconsin Associated Press First Team All State player on our team--as a WALK-ON!!!
Adding to your comment, of our 10* players who played HS basketball in the U.S., 5 were 1st team all-state and 1 2nd team all-state:
1st Team All-State
1. Trevor Anderson - Wisconsin, 2016 - Mr. Basketball
2. Kobe King - Wisconsin, 2017 - Mr. Basketball
3. Sheldon Edwards - Florida, 2019
4. Keyondre Young - Oklahoma, 2021 - Mr. Basketball
5. Preston Ruedinger - Wisconsin, 2021
2nd Team
6. Cam Palesse -Wisconsin, 2021
*Tom Kithier did not play bb in his senior year.
Impressive. No excuses for Matt this year. Let's hope he has learned from his past mistakes as head coach and can show us what he's truly made of which so many here think is of the right stuff. I remain skeptical. However, even I am starting to get excited about this year's team.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves at this stage of the game...this will be team of MANY new faces that have not played together and we need to be patient especially at the beginning of the season as the guys and the coaches get to know each other. All in all it should be an exciting season watching the team develop and mature together. It will be as huge challenge for the Staff to get the job done. GO CRU..or, aah, Knigh... or....GO VALPO!
These are experienced players and not a bunch of freshman. They will work together just fine. We can and should expect good things from jumpstreet. This is Matt's opportunity to prove himself after having such a bad track record. Let's stop making excuses for eight division 1 wins. There is no reason with a roster of three Mr. Basketballs (an all star team) that we shouldn't be at the top of the heap next year.
On a larger scale, Kentucky often has a very talented group of freshman from all over the country and they find ways to be very successful with only Mr. Basketball freshman on their team. It's nonsense to lower expectations for these Valpo players and "give them time to work together" nonsense. If Matt can't get it done with this group, he can't get it done with any group.
The potential problem is no one knows how these individuals work with in a team setting. Hopefully they will play well together. In any event. it wouldn't be the first time a group of top flight players of even National acclaim didn't work out. Every year many top flight programs bomb out with a number of very highly ranked players who just do not pan out in a team setting...example Kentucky, Indiana among others last season. Let's all hope for the best.
I'm excited to see how things go, and clearly there will be some work and practice to get everyone on the same page.
The good news is that the transfers were getting substantial minutes for their teams (obviously when not injured or not on the roster). This is not the case of players averaging say 5 minutes per game, never starting and transferring down to see the court. Several of the transfers were getting solid minutes in the Big 10, so their high-level experience should be a big plus. Adding in the current players and the new freshmen, the battles in practice could be epic. Barring injury, this could be the deepest team Valpo has put on the court in a long time.
Quote from: Just Sayin on July 03, 2021, 01:41:22 PMThese are experienced players and not a bunch of freshman. They will work together just fine. We can and should expect good things from jumpstreet. This is Matt's opportunity to prove himself
As good as Young and Palesse look I'm guessing our freshman group get severely shortchanged on total minutes played. Too many experienced upperclassmen for it to work out any other way. By mid February we should should know pretty well if Matt can coach or motivate BIG talent. As of now I haven't got a clue.
2 of the last 6 Wisconsin Mr. Basketballs on next season's roster is crazy in it's own right, but to also have this year's Oklahoma Mr. Basketball is ridiculous. I would be shocked if another mid major has ever had 3 POY's on the same roster (or the vast majority of Majors for that matter).
Quote from: Just Sayin on July 03, 2021, 01:41:22 PMOn a larger scale, Kentucky often has a very talented group of freshman from all over the country and they find ways to be very successful with only Mr. Basketball freshman on their team.
Do you remember Evansville beating Kentucky early in the season a couple years ago?
Quote from: humbleopinion on July 04, 2021, 06:02:19 AM
Quote from: Just Sayin on July 03, 2021, 01:41:22 PMOn a larger scale, Kentucky often has a very talented group of freshman from all over the country and they find ways to be very successful with only Mr. Basketball freshman on their team.
Do you remember Evansville beating Kentucky early in the season a couple years ago?
You know if one of the NAIA, Div II or III teams beats Valpo in an exhibition or early season game it might make this team a whole lot better in the end. Wasn't it the 1998 Sweet Sixteen team that lost to Bethel in an exhibition game?
I don't think this has been posted before but if it has it's still worth another look.
Here is an extended background video on Thomas Kithier. I really think he will be a game changer for us. The more I see him the more I'm thinking "Matt Howard".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sU1FVAlbrkI
Quote from: vu72 on July 06, 2021, 11:12:06 AM
I don't think this has been posted before but if it has it's still worth another look.
Here is an extended background video on Thomas Kithier. I really think he will be a game changer for us. The more I see him the more I'm thinking "Matt Howard".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sU1FVAlbrkI
It's fascinating to get such a detailed look into their journey together as a family, their rock solid value system framed around gratitude (something that seems to be in short supply among millennials), expressing appreciation for wisdom garnered from a teammate, etc. From the outside looking in, I find Isso's harsh approach a little off putting, but he always seems to squeeze out every ounce of potential from his players. It will be interesting to see how he responds to Matt's much more mellow coaching style.
Quote from: bbtds on July 04, 2021, 06:23:12 AM
Quote from: humbleopinion on July 04, 2021, 06:02:19 AM
Quote from: Just Sayin on July 03, 2021, 01:41:22 PMOn a larger scale, Kentucky often has a very talented group of freshman from all over the country and they find ways to be very successful with only Mr. Basketball freshman on their team.
Do you remember Evansville beating Kentucky early in the season a couple years ago?
You know if one of the NAIA, Div II or III teams beats Valpo in an exhibition or early season game it might make this team a whole lot better in the end. Wasn't it the 1998 Sweet Sixteen team that lost to Bethel in an exhibition game?
That team lost to Bethel by ten in the first regular season game. Still, I would not endorse losing to a non-D1 as a positive indicator of good things to come.
Quote from: vu84v2 on July 07, 2021, 01:48:51 PM
Quote from: bbtds on July 04, 2021, 06:23:12 AM
Quote from: humbleopinion on July 04, 2021, 06:02:19 AM
Quote from: Just Sayin on July 03, 2021, 01:41:22 PMOn a larger scale, Kentucky often has a very talented group of freshman from all over the country and they find ways to be very successful with only Mr. Basketball freshman on their team.
Do you remember Evansville beating Kentucky early in the season a couple years ago?
You know if one of the NAIA, Div II or III teams beats Valpo in an exhibition or early season game it might make this team a whole lot better in the end. Wasn't it the 1998 Sweet Sixteen team that lost to Bethel in an exhibition game?
That team lost to Bethel by ten in the first regular season game. Still, I would not endorse losing to a non-D1 as a positive indicator of good things to come.
Wasn't Bryce injured and didn't play in that game?
Quote from: vu72 on July 07, 2021, 01:52:28 PM
Quote from: vu84v2 on July 07, 2021, 01:48:51 PM
Quote from: bbtds on July 04, 2021, 06:23:12 AM
Quote from: humbleopinion on July 04, 2021, 06:02:19 AM
Quote from: Just Sayin on July 03, 2021, 01:41:22 PMOn a larger scale, Kentucky often has a very talented group of freshman from all over the country and they find ways to be very successful with only Mr. Basketball freshman on their team.
Do you remember Evansville beating Kentucky early in the season a couple years ago?
You know if one of the NAIA, Div II or III teams beats Valpo in an exhibition or early season game it might make this team a whole lot better in the end. Wasn't it the 1998 Sweet Sixteen team that lost to Bethel in an exhibition game?
That team lost to Bethel by ten in the first regular season game. Still, I would not endorse losing to a non-D1 as a positive indicator of good things to come.
Wasn't Bryce injured and didn't play in that game?
Yes, and he missed the next game against Purdue as well.
Quote from: wh on July 06, 2021, 12:56:06 PM
Quote from: vu72 on July 06, 2021, 11:12:06 AM
I don't think this has been posted before but if it has it's still worth another look.
Here is an extended background video on Thomas Kithier. I really think he will be a game changer for us. The more I see him the more I'm thinking "Matt Howard".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sU1FVAlbrkI
It's fascinating to get such a detailed look into their journey together as a family, their rock solid value system framed around gratitude (something that seems to be in short supply among millennials), expressing appreciation for wisdom garnered from a teammate, etc. From the outside looking in, I find Isso's harsh approach a little off putting, but he always seems to squeeze out every ounce of potential from his players. It will be interesting to see how he responds to Matt's much more mellow coaching style.
WH, Tom Izzo (not Isso) certainly is an intensely passionate coach, whose emotions range from harsh, to caring. What he does do is care deeply for his players, which is returned by them, as evidenced by the large number who stay close to the program well after they leave MSU. I have no doubt that Tom will do just fine at VU.
King in the house! This could be a special year! Welcome Kobe!!
http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/news/2021-22/20551/kobe-king-joins-valpo-mens-basketball-program/
Quote from: vu72 on July 08, 2021, 09:50:47 AM
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 6651
Total likes: 2287
Re: Transfers
« Reply #1834 on: Today at 09:50:47 AM »
Quote (selected)
King in the house!
Final exams and the first semester end Dec 17. Is it safe to assume this is his eligibility date? If so can we have a home game that night? :thumbsup:
IIRC, if it ends on the 17th, the first date of eligibility would be the 18th. So maybe we should wait until then to schedule a game :) but yes, he will be able to play right around there. Welcome aboard!
Quote from: vu72 on July 08, 2021, 09:50:47 AM
King in the house! This could be a special year! Welcome Kobe!!
http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/news/2021-22/20551/kobe-king-joins-valpo-mens-basketball-program/
If I wasn't excited about this team before (and I was), I certainly am now. I'm already looking forward to ordering season tickets. BTW I have new wh family connection to Valpo. One of my grandsons will be a member of this year's freshman class. I'm greatly looking forward to having him around for the next 4 years. He loves basketball, so I don't think it will take much to get him hooked.
[emoji106]to wh grandson!! GoValpo!! [emoji459][emoji91]
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
Thrilled to be making a post about basketball.
Here's a look at how Trevor Anderson helped craft a bulk of the 2021-22 Valparaiso basketball roster. -- https://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/wisconsin-transfer-trevor-anderson-works-behind-the-scenes-in-valpos-recruiting-process/article_c131bade-316b-5c97-8be4-0a24035b2da9.html
Here is a podcast episode with those transfers sharing their stories -- https://omny.fm/shows/union-street-hoops/the-valparaiso-fab-five-episode
Quote from: Pgmado on July 08, 2021, 08:27:23 PM
Thrilled to be making a post about basketball.
Here's a look at how Trevor Anderson helped craft a bulk of the 2021-22 Valparaiso basketball roster. -- https://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/wisconsin-transfer-trevor-anderson-works-behind-the-scenes-in-valpos-recruiting-process/article_c131bade-316b-5c97-8be4-0a24035b2da9.html
Here is a podcast episode with those transfers sharing their stories -- https://omny.fm/shows/union-street-hoops/the-valparaiso-fab-five-episode
Absolutely outstanding interview.
Quote from: wh on July 08, 2021, 10:43:04 PM
Quote from: Pgmado on July 08, 2021, 08:27:23 PM
Thrilled to be making a post about basketball.
Here's a look at how Trevor Anderson helped craft a bulk of the 2021-22 Valparaiso basketball roster. -- https://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/wisconsin-transfer-trevor-anderson-works-behind-the-scenes-in-valpos-recruiting-process/article_c131bade-316b-5c97-8be4-0a24035b2da9.html (https://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/wisconsin-transfer-trevor-anderson-works-behind-the-scenes-in-valpos-recruiting-process/article_c131bade-316b-5c97-8be4-0a24035b2da9.html)
Here is a podcast episode with those transfers sharing their stories -- https://omny.fm/shows/union-street-hoops/the-valparaiso-fab-five-episode (https://omny.fm/shows/union-street-hoops/the-valparaiso-fab-five-episode)
Absolutely outstanding interview.
Yes, an excellent interview by Paul. Those of us who have moderated numerous Zoom sessions can appreciate the way he got all five involved and engaged with various issues. It is a juggling act, and Paul never fumbled.
Great to be talking basketball again! Well done Paul!
Makes you wonder about the starting lineup.
Could it be the all transfer team of:
PG Anderson
SG King
C Hedstrom
PF Kithier
SF Taylor
Or Maybe the all Freshman/Returning team of:
PG Gordon
SG Edwards
C Krikke
PF Young
SF Palesse
or maybe...Some VERY nice options!
That will be as daunting job to get these guys together and come up with a starting 5. I'm glad I don't have to do it. But it should be a fun season ahead.
Valpo should dominate the all newcomer team this year. If we don't then I would say something went wrong this year. Too much talent incoming not to be excited and hopeful of at least a top 4 finish (sixth at the absolute lowest). As good as Loyola and Drake will be it is reasonable to believe they will both take steps back without Krutwig and Yesufu respectively). I think they're both more talented but we match up very well with Drake and Hutson is solid but he's no Krutwig which could give us a real chance against the Ramblers if we gel in time. UNI is a giant wildcard both in terms of health and performance. They might be the most talented (or second most talented) team in the conference but they have undeniably underachieved with all that talent so far. Missouri State has perhaps the best duo in the conference with Mosley and Prim and they did add Clay but unless Clay added an outside shot they could have issues again this year. The Bears might be more talented (I think it's probably close between us) but we should be deeper I think. SIU should be solid but I think we have more overall talent than them. The question will be bringing it all together. Valley teams look like they're scheduling up this year and that's a good thing. I hope we're ready to take on some very good and battle tested squads this year and are scheduling up ourselves. It seems we have a fairly solid start to our schedule I just hope it will finish that way. The excitement is palpable. This team SHOULD BE very competitive. Go Valpo!
Will be interesting to see how the offense flows. Last year their was a lot of standing around and chugging shots to beat the shot clock. They looked completely confused on offense.
Quote from: Chairback on July 09, 2021, 02:05:42 PM
Will be interesting to see how the offense flows. Last year their was a lot of standing around and chugging shots to beat the shot clock. They looked completely confused on offense.
Should be an entirely different situation. We had a starting lineup that probably shot a combined 20% from the three particularly late in the year with Barrett out. Knock down a few of those shots and things will open up.
Quote from: vu72 on July 09, 2021, 04:31:28 PMWe had a starting lineup that probably shot a combined 20% from the three particularly late in the year with Barrett out. Knock down a few of those shots and things will open up.
We could start the year with a bunch of players having the green light to take open 3's. Better penetration and King posting could open all kinds of additional open outside looks. Could we be over 33% team from 3?
The battle for playing time should be fierce at the 2 & 3. We have a lot of possibilities if we need to go small, but some guys who saw the court a lot last year are going to see it a lot less next. I expect Hedstrom and the two K's will take most of the minutes at the 4 & 5 in various combinations except when one or more get into early foul trouble, then maybe Young breaks through. Anderson should see the most minutes at point with Gordon getting most of the rest. Going to be tough for any of the freshmen to see a lot of playing time, but if one or more does you know they are going to be really, really good. Just hope the freshman are patient because they have a lot of experienced guys ahead of them now. Would hate to see a lot of transfers from them because they didn't get a lot of playing time right away.
I'm ready for Paul and Todd's yearly over/under podcast episode. Will be a good one.
I don't follow anything Big 10, but even I remember the press that Kobe King was receiving at the end of the 2019-2020 season. I am really excited to see what he can do in the MVC!
Sharing the ball, understanding rolls and who is this years alpha male? Every team has to have one or two. Did we really have one consistently last year? That also means closing games, getting buckets in the crunch time. Right now it's a honeymoon time, but come late December its a 9 man rotation likely.
Do we have a Keith Carter type to organize our offense when we have to play half court grind it out in the 50's? Sackey wasn't it, Gordon is a 2.
Quote from: AB on July 09, 2021, 09:54:22 PMDo we have a Keith Carter type to organize our offense when we have to play half court grind it out in the 50's? Sackey wasn't it, Gordon is a 2.
There is just one reason why Matt wanted Trevor Anderson and he is the guy to do what you are looking for. For his career he is better than a 2/1 assist to turnovers while shooting 39% from the 3.
Nice story from the Madison paper on the Wisconsin transfers. Clearly the faith element of the Coaching staff is a big reason why we are attracting players like Sheldon,Trevor and Joe.
https://madison.com/wsj/sports/college/basketball/men/why-three-former-badgers-men-s-basketball-players-are-together-again-at-valparaiso/article_87eecc8f-f938-51f0-bbea-28367de46fee.html#tncms-source=login
Who's ever playing the best in practice should start, no matter who they are if winning is the focus
Quote from: 96 on July 11, 2021, 09:02:22 PM
Who's ever playing the best in practice should start, no matter who they are if winning is the focus
1000% correct. Put the highest performing players on the court and let the chips fall where they may. If that means that 6th year player Eron Gordon plays behind 1st year player Cam Palesse, so be it. The same goes for everyone else.
Quote from: wh on July 12, 2021, 07:11:57 AM
Quote from: 96 on July 11, 2021, 09:02:22 PM
Who's ever playing the best in practice should start, no matter who they are if winning is the focus
1000% correct. Put the highest performing players on the court and let the chips fall where they may. If that means that 6th year player Eron Gordon plays behind 1st year player Cam Palesse, so be it. The same goes for everyone else.
I was discussing this with another Valpo fan and I do believe that if Canadian Ben Krikke has not made a good improvement over last season he may find himself sitting on the bench a lot more than he did this coming season.
Ben made a significant leap from his freshman year and I actually think he will be even better with players who can actually shoot. He had to do everything last year.
He wasn't a bench player in the big ten but was one of the most talented in the MVC last year.
Ben is going to be ready good. Even better with practicing against the transfers vs Mileek
Krikke was MVC Third team all conference and Sheldon was all freshman team. I expect both to be very significant parts of the success coming up!
Ben averaged 12 ppg over the final 8 games of the season with 9 being his low and 15 his high. 12 ppg was his season average as well. That's called consistency!
Quote from: Chairback on July 12, 2021, 11:50:07 AM
Ben made a significant leap from his freshman year and I actually think he will be even better with players who can actually shoot. He had to do everything last year.
He wasn't a bench player in the big ten but was one of the most talented in the MVC last year.
Ben is going to be ready good. Even better with practicing against the transfers vs Mileek
Third team all conference last year plus conference most improved team selection. If any of the new players can put him on the bench they will have to be a first team all conference level player. I expect him to just get better and better. The only thing he didn't do well last year was shoot the three, and with the shooters we have now, we may only need him to show he will shoot it occasionally. I agree that playing with players who can hit from three will only open up the inside more to allow him to operate in the post. I see him getting 25-30 minutes per game, averaging 14-16 points and 6-8 rebounds.
Quote from: wh on July 12, 2021, 07:11:57 AM
Quote from: 96 on July 11, 2021, 09:02:22 PM
Who's ever playing the best in practice should start, no matter who they are if winning is the focus
1000% correct. Put the highest performing players on the court and let the chips fall where they may. If that means that 6th year player Eron Gordon plays behind 1st year player Cam Palesse, so be it. The same goes for everyone else.
Another point related to putting the highest performing players on the court, regardless of experience. Someone mentioned that the program appears to be heading in the right direction. I'm not sure there's any way of assessing that anymore. All we know is what we have at this moment, and it apperars to be pretty good. Next year could be completely different, depending on who decides to hit the transfer portal, and who doesn't. The same goes for every other team in the MVC. Every year is a brand new game of musical chairs with possible new winners and losers. Bottom line - live for the moment and make the best of it. That's all we have.
I'm starting with the three Mr Basketball, and go from there
Quote from: Chairback on July 12, 2021, 11:50:07 AMBen is going to be ready good. Even better with practicing against the transfers vs Mileek
Mileek couldn't defend or consistently score against Valley competition. That is why he chose to move on to Western Michigan. Ben chose to stay because he can produce at both ends and should continue with improvements.
Quote from: nkvu on July 12, 2021, 01:10:17 PMI see him getting 25-30 minutes per game, averaging 14-16 points and 6-8 rebounds.
I think you are high but only because of our extreme depth of talent and experience. I'm having trouble seeing us in a 9 man rotation with 5 eligible scholarship players viewing only from the bench. How can we not play some of these guys?
Quote from: wh on July 12, 2021, 04:40:20 PMEvery year is a brand new game of musical chairs with possible new winners and losers. Bottom line - live for the moment and make the best of it. That's all we have.
Living only for the moment has never been part of my game plan and free agency will eventually evaporate my interest. That said I am fully on board for this year, thinking it might be my (our) last hurrah. No I am not dying but my interest in the guy's game could be if we have another mass exodus.
Quote from: bbtds on July 12, 2021, 10:48:29 AMQuote from: wh on July 12, 2021, 07:11:57 AMQuote from: 96 on July 11, 2021, 09:02:22 PMWho's ever playing the best in practice should start, no matter who they are if winning is the focus
1000% correct. Put the highest performing players on the court and let the chips fall where they may. If that means that 6th year player Eron Gordon plays behind 1st year player Cam Palesse, so be it. The same goes for everyone else.
I was discussing this with another Valpo fan and I do believe that if Canadian Ben Krikke has not made a good improvement over last season he may find himself sitting on the bench a lot more than he did this coming season.
This just struck me as odd but why the necessity to mention that Krikke is Canadian? Didn't seem to add to the comment unless we're deporting him if he doesn't improve.
Quote from: JD24 on July 12, 2021, 10:55:30 PMThis just struck me as odd but why the necessity to mention that Krikke is Canadian? Didn't seem to add to the comment unless we're deporting him if he doesn't improve.
I have an admiration for Ben Krikke because he came a long way from Canada and chose to stick it out at Valpo through all the Covid related protocols. In general I like most things Canadian and he was our only Canadian, which is an identifying thing, for a time, until the freshman from Ottawa decided to come to Valpo. Actually things should be a lot easier for Ben because vaccinated Canadians will be able to move more easily between the US and Canada without all the quarantine time after July 21.
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said today that Canada has no plans to open its borders to unvaccinated tourists in the foreseeable future because the pandemic isn't over yet.
"That's not going to happen for quite a while," Trudeau told a news conference in Coquitlam, B.C. "We're not quite out of this pandemic yet. We still have to be careful, we still have to be vigilant."
Canada has relaxed some of its border restrictions in recent weeks as COVID-19 case counts and other health metrics have steadily improved since the spring.
For example, the country no longer requires fully vaccinated Canadian citizens and permanent residents to quarantine for 14 days after arriving in the country.
However, fully vaccinated international tourists are not yet permitted to enter the country, though officials have said that restriction will soon be coming to an end.
Is there any other mid-major with as many moving, tantalizing parts largely due to the transfer portal as VU?
There may be growing pains, as the players get to know each other on the court and the coaches determine what the rotation should be. And then Kobe King enters the picture. But this team could gel in an exciting way during the conference schedule and hits its peak just as Arch Madness approaches.
Quote from: bbtds on July 12, 2021, 11:24:06 PMPrime Minister Justin Trudeau said today that Canada has no plans to open its borders to unvaccinated tourists in the foreseeable future because the pandemic isn't over yet.
For two years running Canada has banned me from crossing the border to go fishing. In retaliation I suggest that Ben Krikke be banned from playing more than 40 minutes of basketball per contest. Take that--big boy! >:(
Quote from: justducky on July 13, 2021, 02:12:18 PM
Quote from: bbtds on July 12, 2021, 11:24:06 PMPrime Minister Justin Trudeau said today that Canada has no plans to open its borders to unvaccinated tourists in the foreseeable future because the pandemic isn't over yet.
For two years running Canada has banned me from crossing the border to go fishing. In retaliation I suggest that Ben Krikke be banned from playing more than 40 minutes of basketball per contest. Take that--big boy! >:(
I know you're kidding but like in any situation where the competition for playing time has increased a great deal those that previously did not have the increased competition should be able to step up their game a level in order to justify their higher position on the team.
https://twitter.com/hoops_mvc/status/1415346035627634698?s=20
Quote from: bbtds on July 13, 2021, 05:41:26 PM
I know you're kidding but like in any situation where the competition for playing time has increased a great deal those that previously did not have the increased competition should be able to step up their game a level in order to justify their higher position on the team.
We hope not, of course. That would be sandbagging. What we hope is that the competition raises the level of performance across the board.
Quote from: bbtds on July 13, 2021, 05:41:26 PM
I know you're kidding but like in any situation where the competition for playing time has increased a great deal those that previously did not have the increased competition should be able to step up their game a level in order to justify their higher position on the team.
Valpower:
QuoteWe hope not, of course. That would be sandbagging. What we hope is that the competition raises the level of performance across the board.
I know we always rate a team on the quality each player brings to a team. But it is a team game and an individual player can only reach certain heights of quality if the other players on the team allow for that individual player to excel to his highest quality. I do believe Ben Krikke was held back somewhat by the inconsistency of the other players on the team and Ben will need to adjust to the increased quality of his new teammates or there is the possibility of him getting a bit less playing time than last season. I did not in anyway think Ben was sandbagging during last season. On the contrary I think Ben may have been the one giving the greatest effort last season if measured in a quantitative way. Ben, this coming season does have a higher potential.
I would think Ben would be competing primarily with Hedstrom and Kithier for playing time. I'll need to see a few games and watch our newcomers put up some 3's before I predict how some of this sorts out. Four or five guard attacks might also cost him some time on the floor.
Getting antsy for more BB news and GAMES! I don't remember seeing any video of Kobe King so I thought this might get us out of the political doldrums. Must say I am drooling a little watching this.
Nice highlights, :oat this point I think it's about defense
The way Kobe is able to post up and back down bulky Big Ten defenders with size, he should have a field day against MVC SG's.
Where did Goodnews and Robinson end up at? I think I missed hearing where they landed. Just wondering with school starting in a few weeks.
Robinson is at Western Carolina
Quote from: Chairback on August 04, 2021, 08:32:05 PM
Where did Goodnews and Robinson end up at? I think I missed hearing where they landed. Just wondering with school starting in a few weeks.
He hasn't landed yet. So have A LOT of others.
Kinda like the draft...players only see the green grass on the other side. Lots of good players with wrong info who will be left without a seat this year.
Quote from: vu72 on August 05, 2021, 08:17:15 AMHe hasn't landed yet. So have A LOT of others.
Quote from: elephtheria47 on August 05, 2021, 06:23:59 PMLots of good players with wrong info who will be left without a seat this year.
I don't remember all the details but it sounded like immediate eligibility might only be available if he transferred down below D-1. That would truly be a case of painting yourself into a corner. ???
https://twitter.com/verbalcommits/status/1425160884066742274?s=21
Hopefully he gets what he needs in the next stop. No ill feelings towards Goodnews. He just saw all of the talent coming in, and lost his place.
Quote from: valpotx on August 11, 2021, 03:46:08 AM
Hopefully he gets what he needs in the next stop. No ill feelings towards Goodnews. He just saw all of the talent coming in, and lost his place.
Hopefully. It is his FIFTH stop since high school and he is still at a JUCO.
Quote from: justducky on August 05, 2021, 07:27:44 PMI don't remember all the details but it sounded like immediate eligibility might only be available if he transferred down below D-1.
https://twitter.com/VerbalCommits/status/1425160884066742274?s=20
Why sit now? Might as well play at a JUCO instead of just sitting out basketball.
Over 400 players still without schools of which about 300 are underclassmen. Next year maybe more players will think twice before entering the transfer portal.
In looking back through this thread by this time last year we had 3 players in the portal with 2 more to join in the next two days. We were also posting about other players from the MVC teams joining.
Be interested to see how this year shakes out both for us and other MVC teams or if a lot of players felt a "it's now or never" moment last year and pulled the trigger maybe a year early.
Haven't heard any rumblings about anyone leaving yet but also haven't been around anyone who would know.
Quote from: crusader05 on March 09, 2022, 09:13:19 AM
In looking back through this thread by this time last year we had 3 players in the portal with 2 more to join in the next two days. We were also posting about other players from the MVC teams joining.
Be interested to see how this year shakes out both for us and other MVC teams or if a lot of players felt a "it's now or never" moment last year and pulled the trigger maybe a year early.
Haven't heard any rumblings about anyone leaving yet but also haven't been around anyone who would know.
Right now there are 218 names in the portal with Evansville, UIC, Murray, Missouri State and Indiana State all with one. The one for Indiana State is Tyreke Key. As an aside, JO may be in for another big shuffle at Lipscomb now has four in the portal already.
https://www.verbalcommits.com/transfers/2022
I just think the whole transfer portal craze is so damn sad for college basketball, except for the few blessed programs that don't have to compete for transfers or fear losing current key players.
I don't know if anyone has done a study of successful vs. unsuccessful transfer outcomes, from both the players' and the colleges' perspectives. I wouldn't be surprised if the players experience a net benefit on the whole, but many suffer deep disappointments, and overall it comes at the expense of the culture and continuity of the college game.
My thinking about transfers has been evolving. If you think back over the years, there have been around three Valpo players each year who had not worked out and were counseled to find a situation where they would find playing time. For those players, it's nice that they don't have to sit out a year, and it makes an easier argument for the coaches. The resulting open scholarships allow the team to bring recruits (perhaps from the transfer portal) who can bolster the lineup. When you think of it, for all of the hand-wringing last year, that was the case for all of the transfers other than Donovan and possibly JO (even though JO couldn't find a starting position on 272nd ranked Lipscomb), and Donovan's attitude was toxic in the locker room.
After the tournament, the team separates to go on spring break where they can spend time with friends and family. For team members like Sheldon who cannot see their family during the school year due to distance, it might be tough to envision another year with such distance. When school starts again, the coaches will have time to conduct post-season interviews with each player, and it would be at that meeting that they may be shown greener pastures elsewhere by the staff. I'm sure that the coaches are keeping an eye on the portal for opportunities to put a better team on the floor next year.
Does not appear that the transfer option is slowing down as there are already 377 in the portal. Nothing new from the Valley schools. Several schools are in free fall with 4 and 5 transfers already.
https://verbalcommits.com/transfers/2022
From what I can figure from reading this thread from last year, by this date at least four Valpo players had entered the portal, Donovan entered on the 16th, and JO a week later. I would guess that at the end of spring break there will be meetings with the coaches, and I wonder if any of the team members will be counseled out. It would be nice to be able to have another slot or two to upgrade the roster.
Whether it helps or hurts individual players I know that it damaged my level of interest in the games. I only knew Ben Krikke from the prior year. And I watched a grand total of 2 non-tournament games. And then watched just the quarters vs. Mo State. I can't speak for others. Maybe the new guys were better than the last ones. But I didn't feel connected. Or maybe I was just busier.
Crusadermoe, I know what you are saying, this was the first time in 25 years that I didn't get there early or stay late for Senior Night.
Now seven Valley players in the portal with the big news being that Shamar Givance from Evansville now in. He was clearly the leader on an already bad team.
For the level of the typical athlete in the MVC and any other Mid Major, I've never understood the appeal of the transfer portal. The typical transfer isn't going to go pro, that's just a fact. The number of schools where transferring actually could turn you into a lottery pick can be counted on your fingers with probably a few left over. So why would you not stay where you're most likely to get an education to make you successful afterwards? In that regard, VU should be just about at "blue chip" level. Unfortunately, alot of these young men don't have realistic expectations for life, and have bad influences in their ears...
Spring break is over, and students have returned to campus. I would presume that starting today team members will have meetings with the coaches. I would not be surprised to see a couple players being counseled to look for a situation in which they will get playing time.
I'm not going to speculate about who would be included in the group who will be told to face reality, but I would not be surprised to see a couple names in the portal by the end of the week.
Be interesting to see what happens. It feels like we may have avoided the masse exodus issue of last year but it's still early.
Ones that I could see go into the Portal:
Barrett
Palesse
Young
Illinois State is losing Antonio Reeves to the portal. That hurts for the Redbirds...
Sheldon and Keyondre in the portal. Can't wait for Lottich to replace them with 2 high major transfers just to continue sucking.
It starts..
I put this graphic on the board awhile back and it has held true to form.
(https://i.imgur.com/gES6qKc.jpg)
:(
Can Lottich enter himself in the transfer portal.
https://twitter.com/sheldonnn13/status/1506335264217526274?s=21
https://twitter.com/nwioren/status/1506336487217971211?s=21
Quote from: vok22 on March 22, 2022, 01:37:22 PMSheldon and Keyondre in the portal.
Ouch!
Sheldon was anticipated; Keyondre is a surprise.
I want to know why. I hope they have an exit interview with the AD without the coaches in the room. Do they think they are not getting coached at an acceptable level? Not a fit for the school? Too far away from home?
It's critical for the Athletics Department to know this things.
My first thought is coaching but it may be different.
Honestly I want Lottich out of here at this point. 6 years of mediocrity and demoralizing of the fanbase. I'm sick of it. He's going to get another year but honestly I'm sick of investing emotionally into this program with him at the helm of it. I've had enough
Why in the world did Lottich red shirt young? He could have helped the team. The little we saw of him was exciting. Yet another poor decision by the program. Wishing him nothing but the best.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 22, 2022, 03:20:25 PMI want to know why.
The reason for Sheldon transferring is geographical. His family is in Florida, and he wants to be closer to them. I presume that Paul's information in The Victory Bell will support that.
Quote from: chgovalpofan on March 22, 2022, 03:21:21 PM
Why in the world did Lottich red shirt young? He could have helped the team. The little we saw of him was exciting. Yet another poor decision by the program. Wishing him nothing but the best.
He had a broken thumb. So he gets a full yearof education at a top notch school paid for and, a red-shirt so still has four years of eligibility. And we get Zilch. Thanks for playing. At least Sheldon gave us three good years. I wish him well.
Sheldon only played for two years, but he truly was a meaningful player and with only two years was one of our veteran players (how sad is that). Will be interested in where he ends up, Definitely cheering for him.
Won't spoil the content, but Paul's piece on the transfers is very damning of this coaching staff. It's time for a change. As in, immediately.
Sheldon's tweet after the road Bradley game was pretty damning.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 22, 2022, 05:41:51 PM
Won't spoil the content, but Paul's piece on the transfers is very damning of this coaching staff. It's time for a change. As in, immediately.
What a surprise that this is your interpretation of the article!
Please share your interpretation of the article if it differs.
I had a gut feeling that Young would be leaving. I think it was his somewhat late arrival coupled with his failure to return from his injury.
The fact that Edwards is leaving is damming of Lottich. It's also concerning that it a lot of talented African-American players have left the program.
At this point, I think you have to fire Lottich and go with an interim coach for a year. I can't see the program being any worse off.
This is like watching the same movie over and over.
We are long overdue for a breath of fresh air and a change
Why would you fire him and pay his buyout just to have an interim coach?
Quote from: humbleopinion on March 22, 2022, 02:37:52 PMQuote from: vok22 on March 22, 2022, 01:37:22 PMSheldon and Keyondre in the portal.
Ouch! Sheldon was anticipated; Keyondre is a surprise.
This from me in mid - Oct when it was apparent Young was either going to not play much over the spectacular transfers or was going to redshirt.
Quote from: JD24 on October 17, 2021, 11:33:01 PM
Should I just forward Keyondre Young's name to the portal people now and get it over with?
I don't know if the guy was healthy during the year but if he was it was inexcusable to not play him.
Young is not a surprise on my side. When he wasn't playing while healthy, you could see his posture on the bench. He didn't think that he should be sitting, and I don't think that he should have been sitting. Also notice that JFL was one of those to comment on Sheldon's Tweet.
Quote from: valpotx on March 23, 2022, 07:09:28 AM
Young is not a surprise on my side. When he wasn't playing while healthy, you could see his posture on the bench. He didn't think that he should be sitting, and I don't think that he should have been sitting. Also notice that JFL was one of those to comment on Sheldon's Tweet.
JFL is close with Sheldon.
Sheldon probably saw the success JFL had and Nick Robinson and decided to move on.
Like you said, the tweet after the Bradley game was telling.
Provided we have the necessary budget and we have out in the contract, Lottich is coaching for his job next season, which is how it should be.
That interview where Coach Lottich's name was dropped and President Padilla mentioned, we can't be anyone's doormat, should be a wake up call.
Disappointing news. If it's any consolation, we aren't the only Valley team taking a hit. Illinois State loses a first teamer in Reeves and Missouri State loses two projected starters in JaMonta Black and Sharp. Evansville loses their team leader in Shamar Givance and Indiana State is up to 4 transfers including Tyreke Key.
What we need to find is a way to get where UNI is. Zero transfers. I'd settle for where Belmont, Murray, Southern Illinois and Bradley are with one transfer each. That's a combination of coaching style and players chosen to begin with.
I'm gonna wait to see where we end up with either just these two or how many more if any.
I liked Edwards a lot but, as many people on this board have commented before, he didn't always play like he was working with the team (too many late shots, trying to singlehandedly win the game etc etc) if that's the type of player he wants to be than good on him for recognizing that and not trying to be a square peg in a round hole. Same for Young. Now, I think there's something to be said for "why couldn't the coaching staff get him on board or bring him along or come up with a different scheme" and I think that warrants some consideration. Lottich seems to be pretty inflexible when it comes to his system and it's clear players get playing time based on how much they just keep their mouth shut and play. My guess is: when yourteam wins it's easier to get player buy in, when it's not happening than players aren't going to be happy (could also speak to what has been happening on the women's team this year where many commentators indicated that Evans seems unwilling to make changes). It's clear that the soft skills of team management seem to be a weak spot for this coaching staff right now.
We also don't know if maybe there was an honest conversation between Edwards and the coaching staff where he was encouraged to look elsewhere. It wouldn't make sense to us on paper maybe, but if it's clear the fit wasn't there....
Quote from: crusader05 on March 23, 2022, 09:51:38 AMWe also don't know if maybe there was an honest conversation between Edwards and the coaching staff where he was encouraged to look elsewhere. It wouldn't make sense to us on paper maybe, but if it's clear the fit wasn't there....
When some posters mention that there should be some conversation with the staff and players with some players encouraged to look elsewhere, they probably don't think that the conversation may be as above as well.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 23, 2022, 08:54:07 AMSheldon probably saw the success JFL had and Nick Robinson and decided to move on.
If Edwards saw anything comparable in a basketball sense from JFL to he, he's completely delusional.
More transfers to come. You can book it. I still stand at my five plus Emil early graduate.
I don't want lame duck Mark doing the exit interviews as he was part of the problem...
If Padilla is as serious as he played in that video, he should reach out to these transfers. It might be enlightening.
Too much freedom given to some players past and present on the court. Allowed Sackey too many mistakes etc..JFL was super high IQ, new how to play in the system and was allowed his own freedoms. Players need defined roles, how to use their talents with in the system. Sheldon improved on that this year, but lacked some basketball IQ in crucial situations. Bakari Evelyn mentioned similar thoughts on his role, positioning. He felt out of position. At Iowa he was not looked at to be the main guy, but looked comfortable on the court in his role. What was Eron Gordon's role this year? He should have been consistently 3 and D. If Young was healthy enough to play, that was an enormous mistake not playing him. He was prolly about the most athletic guy on the team. He may or may not have left this year, but he would have helped us win a game or 2 and developed as a player. Jay Wright stoped worrying about recruiting the most talented guy and focused more on recruiting guys that fit his "culture".
I agree that this is just the beginning. It is sad situation. How to you support a program without supporting its coach? The boys need the love of the fans. If fans leave them, then why would anyone come here. But we have one or unfortunately two with our current coach because I don't think he has the grace to step down. I am beginning to think his competitive nature (desire to personally win) is blinding him to the fact that he is just not good at this.
Quote from: vu72 on March 23, 2022, 09:14:42 AM
What we need to find is a way to get where UNI is. Zero transfers.
Noah Carter of UNI is transferring per Verbal Commits as of today (3/23).
In the long run, winning fixes much of the transfer issue. If players know they are likely to win, it makes it much easier to stay. Of course, some will still transfer to be closer to home, to get more playing time, or to play in a power conference. The big problem is if VU is seeing more than average transfers as compared to its peers over time. Remember that players like Casey Schmidt and Brandon Wood began their careers elsewhere.
This is for PO -
It's a generational thing. Gen Z has commitment issues :)
I'm not sure what Edwards is looking for in a transfer. If he wants to be closer to home I can understand it. If he transfers to another mid-major outside Florida/Georgia/Alabama then what's the point. I don't see his skill level as one that would star at a P5 school so if he wants to be a bench player like so many guys that have transferred up from Valpo over the years (I'm talking to you Smits, Sorolla etc.) well, ok. That would tell me it's a coaching/program issue and a continuation of the reasons we had mass transfers last year. Same for Young whom I was really looking forward to watching next year. If he transfers to a school closer to Oklahoma, I'd chalk it up to homesickness, and that's not on the coaches. But if he ends up outside the southwest, then it is. The only way this program can move out of, at best, mediocrity is to keep it's best players together for more than one-two years. We are not Kentucky. We can't bring in an almost new team of 4/5 star players every year who can get by on talent alone and make the NCAA tournament almost every year. We need a program that instills loyalty in it's players so they can build towards success over time. We can't be successful rebuilding a team from scratch every year.
Quote from: valpo95 on March 23, 2022, 07:53:36 PMNoah Carter of UNI is transferring per Verbal Commits as of today (3/23).
In the long run, winning fixes much of the transfer issue. If players know they are likely to win, it makes it much easier to stay
These two comments don't seem to fit together. Noah Carter's transfer sends notice that even starters on teams that are in the top tier of the MVC can be malcontented with their current situation. Carter entered the portal for a few days last year as well; I guess that he didn't get the attention that he wanted last year. Maybe he can find the equivalent of DePaul near Dubuque.
The new reality of college basketball is you're going to deal with transfers each and every year. Some going in, some going out. Where we run into trouble is each year 3-5 of our top 8 players head out. You have to have some continuity on the mid major level. For example, current tourney darling St Peters: Top six scorers are either juniors or seniors.
Quote from: humbleopinion on March 24, 2022, 06:07:06 AM
Quote from: valpo95 on March 23, 2022, 07:53:36 PMNoah Carter of UNI is transferring per Verbal Commits as of today (3/23).
In the long run, winning fixes much of the transfer issue. If players know they are likely to win, it makes it much easier to stay
These two comments don't seem to fit together. Noah Carter's transfer sends notice that even starters on teams that are in the top tier of the MVC can be malcontented with their current situation. Carter entered the portal for a few days last year as well; I guess that he didn't get the attention that he wanted last year. Maybe he can find the equivalent of DePaul near Dubuque.
Perhaps they don't entirely fit together.
I have no knowledge of the Noah Carter situation, just was responding to the previous post that said, "What we need to find way to get to where UNI is. Zero transfers." Now it is one transfer of a very good player for UNI. At least in recent years, UNI has done a better job keeping players than has Valpo. Part of that is due to UNI's winning record over that time.
The bottom line is that transfers happen for many reasons. I agree with NativeCheesehead's post that mid majors need continuity, keeping most of their best players to remain competitive.
The portal is red hot, now up to 726 and the latest is Micah Thomas, a part time starter at Indiana State. ISU now up to 5 in the portal.
You can add Trey Woodyard now.
Quote from: nkvu on March 23, 2022, 10:16:05 PMI'm not sure what Edwards is looking for in a transfer. If he wants to be closer to home I can understand it. If he transfers to another mid-major outside Florida/Georgia/Alabama then what's the point. I don't see his skill level as one that would star at a P5 school so if he wants to be a bench player like so many guys that have transferred up from Valpo over the years (I'm talking to you Smits, Sorolla etc.) well, ok. That would tell me it's a coaching/program issue and a continuation of the reasons we had mass transfers last year. Same for Young whom I was really looking forward to watching next year. If he transfers to a school closer to Oklahoma, I'd chalk it up to homesickness, and that's not on the coaches. But if he ends up outside the southwest, then it is. The only way this program can move out of, at best, mediocrity is to keep it's best players together for more than one-two years. We are not Kentucky. We can't bring in an almost new team of 4/5 star players every year who can get by on talent alone and make the NCAA tournament almost every year. We need a program that instills loyalty in it's players so they can build towards success over time. We can't be successful rebuilding a team from scratch every year.
The Paul Oren's Victory Bell interviews ( if you want to keep up with VU sports subscribe to his site. It's worth it) are very telling why they transferred. Seems Sheldon was uncomfortable with the system as it pertained to him and not allowing him to play his game, along with how he was subbed in and out. Per Vivtory Bell he wants to "
be somewhere that I can play my game". Said being closer to home not a factor in leaving. There for I take it he was not happy with Matt's scheme of play calling/system and how he was used.
To me it seems Young felt the same as Sheldon. He stated in the same interview "
I see my game being a lot like Shell and seeing how the subbing was going, I didn't really see it changing with me". Sounds like he wants to be a main starter and focus on a team. Being closer to home doesn't seem to be a priority either. Shame he couldn't play more and maybe he would have had a different view. I think if he had stayed he might have become a main cog and go to guy, but we will never know now. To me his leaving was bigger than Sheldon. One year with essentially no playing time and the potential to be an impact player for us.
Both players said they liked the school along with the other players and coaches. I take it they didn't like the system and it's results of losing (a winning record may have changed their minds). So until we start having winning seasons I see the transfer portal as an big open avenue for players to exit the team.
Another vote of no confidence in the coaching staff...
https://twitter.com/nwioren/status/1507026034666971144?s=21
Woodyard isn't a loss and should move down a level. Such a great shooter who couldn't ever get his shot off. My guess is that if Conner makes it back that the handwriting was on the wall regarding playing time. He made 5 3's in 27 game appearances.
Quote from: vu72 on March 24, 2022, 11:23:34 AM
Woodyard isn't a loss and should move down a level. Such a great shooter who couldn't ever get his shot off. My guess is that if Conner makes it back that the handwriting was on the wall regarding playing time. He made 5 3's in 27 game appearances.
When I saw his name, I thought that he could be counted as a player counseled into the portal by the coaching staff. In addition to his struggles on offense, he just couldn't guard his man in our conference. I hope he lands in a spot where he can shine.
I don't think this was mentioned; Murray State's coach, Matt McMahon, has transferred to LSU. I wonder if the team will stick around when the new coach is named
I thought Woodward was young and had a lot of potential. This year, the league was filled with players who had played for 6 years. Trevor was 24. A huge difference. I think he could have been a contributor with some extra muscle. The game is so much faster than HS. For some, it takes a few years to adjust. But we need the administration to identify and fix the problems. We obviously have a leak or two. We can only speculate on its location, although it appears quite obvious.
I am a little disappointed that someone actually posted so many specifics from Paul's article. Let Paul have his little domain of information that he gets paid to reveal. He certainly works for it.
Not that this has anything definitively to do with the transfers, but it probably didn't help. There were A LOT of students whose One Cards were disabled on Sunday for not have the covid booster. This denied them access to the dorms, classrooms and food service. I am pro vaccine, but given the current state of the virus, this was probably not the appropriate way to ensure compliance. If I was on the bubble, and they locked me out my dorm, it would definitely push me over.
Quote from: vu72 on March 24, 2022, 11:23:34 AM
Woodyard isn't a loss and should move down a level. Such a great shooter who couldn't ever get his shot off. My guess is that if Conner makes it back that the handwriting was on the wall regarding playing time. He made 5 3's in 27 game appearances.
He's a freshman. You can't expect much but I really like his potential. He's a D1 player for sure. He's the type a guy you'd love stay and develop but wouldn't get instant minutes
Quote from: VUBBFan on March 24, 2022, 11:04:23 AM"be somewhere that I can play my game". Said being closer to home not a factor in leaving. There for I take it he was not happy with Matt's scheme of play calling/system and how he was used
He didn't like how he was used when there were times, particularly early in the year, when I was thinking to myself "get his ass out of there"?
I'm all for a coaching change however some of these guys really need a dose of reality.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 24, 2022, 02:00:10 PMHe's a freshman. You can't expect much but I really like his potential
Tell it to the non-scholarship guy who ended up being a starter. There are lots of freshman who are productive and not just the Alec Peters of the world. I agree that freshman typically need development but I really think a kid like Darius has a much higher ceiling.
Quote from: vu72 on March 24, 2022, 02:28:14 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on March 24, 2022, 02:00:10 PMHe's a freshman. You can't expect much but I really like his potential
Tell it to the non-scholarship guy who ended up being a starter. There are lots of freshman who are productive and not just the Alec Peters of the world. I agree that freshman typically need development but I really think a kid like Darius has a much higher ceiling.
Yes, Preston was impressive but guys instantly contributing as freshman probably isn't the best standard.
Maybe it should be because so many guys transfer these days, that you want guys who have experience and can instantly contribute because there is so much risk of guys not stuck around 4 years, but look at a guy like Howard Little who barely saw the court his freshman year and ended up being a key player in his upperclassmen years . I get it, it's a different era and guys don't stick around for quite as long.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/howard-little-1.html
Trey would do well at a low mid-major in D1. I echo being too slow at this point in his development, both in footwork and in shot release.
I hope we are all over Matthew Mors who is transferring from WI.
We are at 3 open then right?
Max and Trevor are stepping in for Trevor/Kevion so these 3 transfers are 3 open spots?
Be interesting to see if they go for an underrecruited high school senior, a DII move up or something else.
Wouldn't shock me if the coaches go heavy on experience in terms of recruiting. The writing is on the wall and this is as hot as a seat can get at Valpo with a new AD coming in and a new President who has seen Matt's teams play for the last 1.5 years and has openly stated he doesn't want to be a doormat.
If there is an out in the contract after next season it will likely be used to fire him.
Matt Lottich will try to recruit guys who are instant contributors this offseason. Self preservation mode and make himself look as best as possible for the next job.
"I hope we are all over Matthew Mors who is transferring from WI."
____
No chance. He's homesick and heading home to S. Dakota. He's made that pretty clear.
Given Matt's inabilities, he would be wise to continue the trend of experienced contributors. The portal is actually our friend. Look for D2 standouts looking for fifth year like Kevion or even the JC standout. Bradley did well here. Valpo has a lot to offer. It seems like most of the boys who come to play here, even if they do leave, still have a close connection with the university, or at least theirteammates. Look at JFL, Sacky, and even Donavon. We need to build on that.
How about getting these transfers:
1.) SG, Garrett Covington from Youngstown State, Carmel, IN, Bosco Institute.
2.) SG, Tyre Eady, ND State, from Middleton, WI.
3.) SG, De Andre Gholston, Milwaukee University, Gary, IN.
4.) SG, Courvoisier McCauley, De Paul University, from Indy, Redemption Christian Academy.
5.) SG, Zion Young, Oakland University, Simeon High School, Chicago, IL
North Dakota State has something going on, as they have like 5-6 transfers.
Quote from: valpotx on March 25, 2022, 05:47:50 PM
North Dakota State has something going on, as they have like 5-6 transfers.
My supposition is that transferring is easy it is Fargo, ND in the winter and they finished 2-16 dead last in the Summit.
Quote from: historyman on March 25, 2022, 08:10:50 PM
Quote from: valpotx on March 25, 2022, 05:47:50 PM
North Dakota State has something going on, as they have like 5-6 transfers.
My supposition is that transferring is easy it is Grand Forks, ND in the winter and they finished 2-16 dead last in the Summit.
That was the University of North Dakota. NDSU was second in the Summit League at 23-10 (13-5)
Quote from: valpotx on March 25, 2022, 08:33:59 PM
Quote from: historyman on March 25, 2022, 08:10:50 PM
Quote from: valpotx on March 25, 2022, 05:47:50 PM
North Dakota State has something going on, as they have like 5-6 transfers.
My supposition is that transferring is easy it is Grand Forks, ND in the winter and they finished 2-16 dead last in the Summit.
That was the University of North Dakota. NDSU was second in the Summit League at 23-10 (13-5)
You are correct. I did confuse North Dakota State with North Dakota.
The MVC New-Comer of the Year wants to have the chance to win that honor again in a different conference; Bradley's Terry Roberts is in the portal.
I wonder if the NCAA will review this rule. It has to have shifted how coaches look at building a team. There is really no reason for a mid-major to recruit a high schooler with a strong upside that needs development. All players recruited need to be able to contribute immediately, because in the longer term it can be presumed that they will be gone.
The Peacocks' win last night was important for demonstrating to players that there is a route to success outside of the P5. Still, the money to be made through NIL may tempt athletes to larger markets or to teams who have supporters willing to attract high performers.
Steve Prohm returns to coach Murray State.
Quote from: humbleopinion on March 24, 2022, 11:49:08 AM
I don't think this was mentioned; Murray State's coach, Matt McMahon, has transferred to LSU. I wonder if the team will stick around when the new coach is named
Quote from: valpopal on March 26, 2022, 08:43:08 AM
Steve Prohm returns to coach Murray State.
Quote from: humbleopinion on March 24, 2022, 11:49:08 AM
I don't think this was mentioned; Murray State's coach, Matt McMahon, has transferred to LSU. I wonder if the team will stick around when the new coach is named
Prohm is another example of a very successful mid-major coach who struggled at the high major level. It's just a different level and different pressures from wealthy alumni.
It is time for some of us to quit bashing Valpo like we are one of only a few schools in the on-going movement of players in the transfer portal. It happens every year to many, many schools, and the
players move for a variety of reasons. The rule is ridiculous and should be eliminated. It doesn't seem to matter if the respective school has a good winning record, mediocre record or a poor won and loss record. It is time to quit kissing these players --- and get on with a good rule/rules for transfer. Example: Charlie Moore, guard for Miami, is now at his 4th or 5th school. It's a joke. Somed schools benefit in getting transfers while others suffer when new players transfer in. It is another whole new coaching dimension that today's coaches have to deal with. Could we really have expected a better season outcome this past year when at times we started 4 or maybe even 5 players who never played together before and they all came from different schools and systems? Some coaches handled this problem better than others but many couldn't get the job done...Matt was one of those having trouble getting it put together but he sure wasn't alone in dealing with it.
Quote from: vu72 on March 26, 2022, 09:22:56 AM
Quote from: valpopal on March 26, 2022, 08:43:08 AM
Steve Prohm returns to coach Murray State.
Quote from: humbleopinion on March 24, 2022, 11:49:08 AM
I don't think this was mentioned; Murray State's coach, Matt McMahon, has transferred to LSU. I wonder if the team will stick around when the new coach is named
Prohm is another example of a very successful mid-major coach who struggled at the high major level. It's just a different level and different pressures from wealthy alumni.
I think we have a 3-0 record against Prohm but I'm not expecting that dominance to continue. :(
The transfer portal is making a mockery of the idea of the student-athlete. This is becoming complete free agency, with no obligation to a school beyond the current year. It's an annual blend of trade-up and musical chairs.
Let's not forget that a full scholarship is part of the deal, too...the kind of money that serious students from modest backgrounds would bleed to get.
And I'm sorry, but the endless array of tweets about consulting God and family as explanation for transferring leave me cold -- unless, of course, God pointed them to School A and then a year or two later to School B, in which case I missed that piece in Sunday School. ;D
Just venting a bit.
Exactly, the people that say that the cost of a free education is not worth it, have no desire to actually use their education. Every other student would love to have that full ride. You can say that the NCAA makes a ton of money from Football and Men's Basketball, but those revenue sports support all other NCAA sports. Unless you are a P5 raking in money, it isn't like these are huge profit centers, either. All of it gets reinvested back to students and athletes, outside of the very highly paid coaches out there.
With this current system, you get guys that view low and mid-major schools as their Juco, stay 1-2 years, and hope for better. They never really buy into the program, as they already have this plan in mind. If it doesn't work out for them personally, they sour the mood in the team room, and burn the program on the way out (Clay).
Quote from: valpotx on March 26, 2022, 04:08:12 PM
Exactly, the people that say that the cost of a free education is not worth it, have no desire to actually use their education. Every other student would love to have that full ride. You can say that the NCAA makes a ton of money from Football and Men's Basketball, but those revenue sports support all other NCAA sports. Unless you are a P5 raking in money, it isn't like these are huge profit centers, either. All of it gets reinvested back to students and athletes, outside of the very highly paid coaches out there.
With this current system, you get guys that view low and mid-major schools as their Juco, stay 1-2 years, and hope for better. They never really buy into the program, as they already have this plan in mind. If it doesn't work out for them personally, they sour the mood in the team room, and burn the program on the way out (Clay).
It would be one of the manifestations of the way Missouri State handled the transfers if Keaton Hervey transferred to Valpo. They are very vulnerable but I don't think in any way Hervey will come to Valpo. Of course Valpo is vulnerable too but our team didn't deserve the Clay traitorous decision and it's now extremely clear why a lot of conferences won't allow transfers within a conference.
Really good comments and the transfer rule needs to be reevaluated.
A few things:
The term student-athlete, particularly at the P5 schools, is an oxymoron. No player at Duke, USC or Stanford would ever make general admission standards.
I would propose if a coach leaves, the player can transfer without waiting a year.
64 is right, the transfer dilemma is happening at all schools. That being said, this should not prevent the discussion that head coach and the team needs to be held accountable to perform better.
usc4valpo, I agree on the accountability thing w/o a doubt.
By this time last year, all of our transfers had entered the portal. Let's hope that this year's team has followed that model.
If that's the case, then this thread can shift to replacing players rather than lamenting their loss.
According to Twitter, Young has heard from: Oral Roberts, Jacksonville State, Omaha, Southern Indiana, and Louisiana Monroe
Edwards has interest from: FAU, FIU, USF, Stetson, Grand Canyon, Santa Clara, Loyola Chicago, BYU, App State, Duquesne, Charlotte, Loyola Marymount, Indiana State, Georgia State.
Quote from: mj on March 28, 2022, 10:21:13 AM
According to Twitter, Young has heard from: Oral Roberts, Jacksonville State, Omaha, Southern Indiana, and Louisiana Monroe
Edwards has interest from: FAU, FIU, USF, Stetson, Grand Canyon, Santa Clara, Loyola Chicago, BYU, App State, Duquesne, Charlotte, Loyola Marymount, Indiana State, Georgia State.
None of those programs mentioned so far would be a step up for Young, but a step down. It would be interesting if Edwards wound up at Loyola or we got to see how he would do coached by Bryce at Grand Canyon.
What are you talking about. More than half of those mentioned are a step up. You living in the past.
Yeah Jacksonville made it to the NCAA tournament this year
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 28, 2022, 01:40:06 PMWhat are you talking about. More than half of those mentioned are a step up. You living in the past.
For young ??? No. Oral Robets the past 3 years maybe but far from sustained. This isn't just about what team had the better record last year. It's about competition and exposure. All of those conferences are steps down as far as competition and expose.
Quote from: 96 on March 28, 2022, 02:01:35 PM[size=78%] Yeah Jacksonville made it to the NCAA tournament this year [/size]
[/size][/size][size=78%]They also lost to us. [/size]
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 28, 2022, 01:40:06 PMMore than half of those mentioned are a step up.
I'll give you Oral Roberts and Jacksonville State were rated higher than VU at the end of the season (though their conferences certainly weren't, and Keyondre was concerned about that), but what would be the third? Southern Indiana, which hasn't played a game in D1 yet?
Maybe D2 Southern Indiana may be better than Valpo right now. I would guarantee Northwest Missouri State would defeat Valpo by double digits.
I think that FAU, FIU, or Stetson, make sense for Sheldon. As much as I hate to say it, Young should go to ORU.
There all a better school if it comes with game time
None of the schools listed for Edwards or Young are much of a step up. Most are lateral to a downgrade. Some are better teams sure, but its like saying moving from Northwestern to St Peters is an upgrade because the team had a better year. That being said, many may provide a better experience/fit or more playing time.
I hope Sheldon finds what he is looking for. I do think he was given every opportunity to be the star here. He had the third most total minutes on the team, third most field goal attempts, most three point attempts... had the ball put in his hands at the end of games several times. I don't think he should have came off the bench, if nothing else for optics, but he was certainly given plenty of freedom and opportunity from my perspective. But Lottich's system/coaching may have hindered him even if he was given the freedom. He's a good player, and will be missed.
I wish we got to see Young play, but hope he finds a good landing spot as well. If I were him, I would have gutted it out for another year, get some playing time and prove yourself before using up your free transfer. Right now he wont get many bigger schools looking at him and likely looking to move down a bit.
Woodward I'm not shocked at. With such a limited sample to see, it's hard to really tell how much upside he has.
I'm pretty confident that we can replace what we lost in transfers if it stops with those three. King, Krikke, Kithier are three good pieces to build around.
Some interesting transfers from the daily count. Murray State has 5 players transferring, Jayson Kent a 6'7 Fr is transferring from Bradley to Indiana State. David Skogman a 6'10 RS FR from Buffalo ( hometown Waukesha WI ) is in portal. VU offered him 2 years ago. Averaged 8 Pts and 6.3 RPG also shooting 37.5 % from 3 point range. Bennett Vander Plas 6'8 Center from Ohio U ( hometown Ripon WI ) is transferring. Grad transfer who has scored 1594 points in his career at Ohio U. Might be worth a try getting those guys especially with our Wisconsin connections
Agree with most of what's been posted regarding transfers. But The NCAA made it way too easy with the not having to sit out a year if it is your first time transferring.
Other majors losing players to the portal: Purdue, Vanderbilt, West Virginia, Illinois. Who is next to lose? Something has to be done to change this rule.
Despite the chaos it causes, I actually like the transfer rule allowing them to play without sitting if its their first transfer. Whether its a good move, or a selfish one, or a stupid short sighted one, the players should have the freedom to move to a new school like anyone else. Its a mess for sure, and if there is a way to improve it all the better, but it was the right move to make IMO.
ORU was in the sweet 16 a year ago. They play offense! They play in front of fans. Better facilities. Sounds like a step up.
Same with GCU except no sweet 16, just a NCAAT last year.
Murray State is up to six transfers; I wonder if any will follow their coach to LSU. It seems that Prohm hasn't won over the team, or he is cleaning house to create room for players he wants to bring into the program. The Racers' role in the MVC may be different from what had been anticipated.
Meanwhile The Racers' old coach, McMahon, has landed in LSU where there have been three transfers so far including Shaq's son, Shareef.
LSU has some Level 1 rules violations coming down on them so players will be looking for a more stable future elsewhere.
Quote from: vuny98 on March 28, 2022, 09:07:36 PMDespite the chaos it causes, I actually like the transfer rule allowing them to play without sitting if its their first transfer. Whether its a good move, or a selfish one, or a stupid short sighted one, the players should have the freedom to move to a new school like anyone else. Its a mess for sure, and if there is a way to improve it all the better, but it was the right move to make IMO.
I used to agree, but you have to remember they are students first. As a student, they do have the ability to transfer to another school immediately like everybody else. Has nothing to do with the fact their eligibility to play sports might be delayed by a year.
Sarcastically but in many cases realistically, I am not sure they are students first. Also, these are students on athletic scholarships.
If the world were beautiful, if the player has to sit out a year, then the new coach has to sit out a year. Players primarily come to school based on the coaching and program, and if that coach that recruits him or her leaves, he is stuck in an uncertain situation.
The solution is not easy.
Easy solution: If your coach leaves, you can leave without sitting out a year.
Otherwise, if you transfer, you have to sit a year just like in the old days.
I suppose there would have to be deadlines involved, which would make it more difficult.
Quote from: Valpo89 on March 29, 2022, 11:31:27 AMEasy solution: If your coach leaves, you can leave without sitting out a year. Otherwise, if you transfer, you have to sit a year just like in the old days. I suppose there would have to be deadlines involved, which would make it more difficult.
Coach leaves
After your freshman year (should allow for them to reassess their choice from when they were in high school after having been in college/with that team and coach for a year)
If you red shirted that year and essentially sat out anyway
Grad transfer (as it always was)
I could get behind a free transfer with those restrictions. The freshman one allows kids that are in a bad situation or were sold a bill of goods by a coach that wasn't accurate a chance to get to a better situation. Mostly it will be guys like Woodward or Young that weren't getting playing time or not happy with their potential role with the team. They should get that opportunity to move. You'll loose a few of those standout freshman stars that have earned the right to play at a higher level, but mostly it will be the later.
Quote from: JD24 on March 24, 2022, 02:16:01 PM
Quote from: VUBBFan on March 24, 2022, 11:04:23 AM"be somewhere that I can play my game". Said being closer to home not a factor in leaving. There for I take it he was not happy with Matt's scheme of play calling/system and how he was used
He didn't like how he was used when there were times, particularly early in the year, when I was thinking to myself "get his ass out of there"?
I'm all for a coaching change however some of these guys really need a dose of reality.
In terms of your "these guys really need a dose of reality" take, I think it's the exact opposite. I think these guys understand more than ever their "reality." If you're not good enough or don't believe the current system fits your best attributes, then going somewhere that is a better situation for you personally is actually a pretty mature and practical decision. It is certainly better than staying in a situation where you are unhappy and never play or never succeed and end up having regrets down the road. Might as well make the most of your college experience.
As for the transfer rule, maybe it's a millennial thing, but I like freedom of choice. You are only in college for 4-5 (maybe 6) years. So, why not go somewhere where you can best fulfill your college goals? I know it sucks from a fan perspective not being able to see guys develop and is rough on coaches not having continuity, but I would rather have players have more freedom than less. With a limited shelf life, they might as well have every opportunity to pursue their happiness.
Quote from: mp91 on March 29, 2022, 01:43:46 PMQuote from: JD24 on March 24, 2022, 02:16:01 PMQuote from: VUBBFan on March 24, 2022, 11:04:23 AM"be somewhere that I can play my game". Said being closer to home not a factor in leaving. There for I take it he was not happy with Matt's scheme of play calling/system and how he was used
He didn't like how he was used when there were times, particularly early in the year, when I was thinking to myself "get his ass out of there"? I'm all for a coaching change however some of these guys really need a dose of reality.
In terms of your "these guys really need a dose of reality" take, I think it's the exact opposite. I think these guys understand more than ever their "reality." If you're not good enough or don't believe the current system fits your best attributes, then going somewhere that is a better situation for you personally is actually a pretty mature and practical decision.
I actually agree with your point. My point to the poster I responded to was, if this was the case with Edwards, I have no idea what he'd be looking for since he was given seemingly a lot of free reign particularly early in the year and I thought gummed up a good portion of it. Maybe his issues are other than at the basketball end and he is more interested in being closer to home in which case a lateral, at best, move makes sense.
Quote from: humbleopinion on March 29, 2022, 05:19:40 AMMurray State is up to six transfers; I wonder if any will follow their coach to LSU. It seems that Prohm hasn't won over the team, or he is cleaning house to create room for players he wants to bring into the program. The Racers' role in the MVC may be different from what had been anticipated. Meanwhile The Racers' old coach, McMahon, has landed in LSU where there have been three transfers so far including Shaq's son, Shareef.
Murray State is losing KJ Williams and Justice Hill who are probably their best players.
Murray State is up to nine. Complete rebuild for next year. welcome to our world.
Open scholarships are still impacted by Covid as the 2021 and 2022s fight for a piece of the crowded space. Valpo can definitely be a beneficiary from the transfer portal, getting at least as much as we lose. Love to see another Kevion or two to compliment Kobe (hopefully) and Ben. I'd be surprised if TK plays next year due to his back.
Anyone have a crystal ball?
Quote from: JD24 on March 29, 2022, 03:11:25 PM
Quote from: humbleopinion on March 29, 2022, 05:19:40 AMMurray State is up to six transfers; I wonder if any will follow their coach to LSU. It seems that Prohm hasn't won over the team, or he is cleaning house to create room for players he wants to bring into the program. The Racers' role in the MVC may be different from what had been anticipated. Meanwhile The Racers' old coach, McMahon, has landed in LSU where there have been three transfers so far including Shaq's son, Shareef.
Murray State is losing KJ Williams and Justice Hill who are probably their best players.
When we lost a bunch of guys last year, many were never meant to play D1 to begin with. Murray has lost (so far) four of their top five scorers and Williams would make Prim look bad.
Murray State apparently has 1 scholarship player committed for next season. Their top recruit bailed as well.
It will be a complete rebuild. Still like the add to the MVC but it might be a rough year 1. They rehired their old Coach who left them for Iowa State back in 2015, which is an interesting dynamic...
https://twitter.com/wyattwheeler_nl/status/1508903445193019402?s=21&t=CakvJZWw63nn8MX5hLvYAg
So maybe a strategy would be to fill most of your open scholarships with transfers using their one freebie who might be more likely to stay if they would have to sit out to transfer again? Let some other school deal with freshman drama and maybe look to have players for two or three years rather than hoping for four.
I see that another Badger, Ben Carlson, is in the portal. Can we send Trevor on a recruiting trip?
One Edwards out and another Edwards in. Transfer Nick Edwards commits to Valpo:
More than 1,000 players in the transfer portal. Mind boggling. With 350-some teams that play D1 hoops, that's gonna be about 3 players per team, on average.
Another 850-some in the girls portal.
So we're in the neighborhood of 1,900 basketball players, total, in the portal. That's just D1.
Crazy.
Interesting that he seems to have a high-flying and decent 3-pt style, similar to Sheldon. The one difference seems to be that he looks to distribute, in addition to those other areas.
Nice write-up on Nick Edwards in The Victory Bell tonight. An excellent pass-first but able to score guy in D2, with assist numbers seldom seen in college hoops. Maybe the successful Kevion "experiment" has opened up a one-year grad transfer path to VU for strong D2 players.
Spent the Duke NC Halftime on Verbal Commits...
Valley School Transfer count as of 8:30pm Saturday 4/2:
Bradley Count 2
Belmont Count 2
Drake Count 1
Evansville Count 4
Illinois State Count 3
Indiana State Count 6
Missouri State Count 3
Murray State Count 10
Northern Iowa Count 1
Southern Illinois Count 2
UIC Count 5
Valparaiso Count 3
Who are they?
Name Class Previous School
Jayson Kent FR Bradley
Terry Roberts SO Bradley
Bradley Count 2
JaCobi Wood FR Belmont
Will Richard FR Belmont
Belmont Count 2
Jordan Kwiecinski FR Drake
Drake Count 1
Emmette Page JR Evansville
Jawaun Newton JR Evansville
Shamar Givance JR Evansville
Troy Boynton FR Evansville
Evansville Count 4
Abdou Ndiaye RS SO Illinois State
Alston Andrews FR Illinois State
Antonio Reeves SO Illinois State
Illinois State Count 3
Dearon Tucker SO Indiana State
Micah Thomas FR Indiana State
Nick Hittle FR Indiana State
Quimari Peterson FR Indiana State
Simon Wilbar RS FR Indiana State
Tyreke Key SR Indiana State
Indiana State Count 6
Demarcus Sharp JR Missouri State
Ja'Monta Black SO Missouri State
Keaton Hervey RS JR Missouri State
Missouri State Count 3
Justice Hill RS SO Murray State
Damiree Burns SO Murray State
DaQuan Smith RS SO Murray State
Dionte Bostick FR Murray State
Elijah Farr RS SO Murray State
Jackson Sivills FR Murray State
K.J. Williams JR Murray State
Matt Smith RS FR Murray State
Nicholas McMullen FR Murray State
Trae Hannibal SO Murray State
Murray State Count 10
Noah Carter SO Northern Iowa
Northern Iowa Count 1
Kyler Filewich FR Southern Illinois
Sekou Dembélé RS SO Southern Illinois
Southern Illinois Count 2
Jalen Johnson JR UIC
Marcus Larsson SO UIC
Maurice Commander JR UIC
RayQuawndis Mitchell JR UIC
Zion Griffin JR UIC
UIC Count 5
Keyondre Young FR Valparaiso
Sheldon Edwards FR Valparaiso
Trey Woodyard FR Valparaiso
Valparaiso Count 3
Three Transfers have announced they are coming INTO the Valley:
player From To
Jayson Kent Bradley Indiana State
Nick Edwards Glenville State Valparaiso
Sardaar Calhoun Texas Tech Drake
All D1 Schools with 5 or more transfers
La Salle Count 12
Alabama State Count 11
LSU Count 11
Murray State Count 10
Texas–Rio Grande Valley Count 10
Hartford Count 9
Prairie View A&M Count 9
Green Bay Count 8
New Hampshire Count 8
Southern Miss Count 8
Tarleton State Count 8
Binghamton Count 7
George Mason Count 7
IUPUI Count 7
Northeastern Count 7
Pittsburgh Count 7
Radford Count 7
The Citadel Count 7
Western Carolina Count 7
William & Mary Count 7
Indiana State Count 6
Cal State Bakersfield Count 6
Delaware State Count 6
Dixie State Count 6
Eastern Illinois Count 6
Idaho Count 6
Incarnate Word Count 6
Kansas State Count 6
Loyola Marymount Count 6
Marist Count 6
Missouri Count 6
North Dakota State Count 6
Northern Arizona Count 6
Portland Count 6
Rhode Island Count 6
San José State Count 6
South Carolina Count 6
South Dakota Count 6
Tennessee Tech Count 6
UIC Count 5
Alabama A&M Count 5
Arkansas State Count 5
Ball State Count 5
Cal State Northridge Count 5
Charleston Southern Count 5
Coppin State Count 5
Eastern Washington Count 5
ETSU Count 5
Holy Cross Count 5
Iowa State Count 5
James Madison Count 5
Kennesaw State Count 5
McNeese Count 5
Montana Count 5
Nevada Count 5
Niagara Count 5
North Dakota Count 5
Northern Illinois Count 5
Northwestern State Count 5
Ole Miss Count 5
Presbyterian Count 5
Princeton Count 5
Rice Count 5
Rider Count 5
Saint Joseph's Count 5
Southeastern Louisiana Count 5
St. Francis Brooklyn Count 5
Stanford Count 5
Temple Count 5
UC Davis Count 5
UMBC Count 5
UNC Asheville Count 5
USC Upstate Count 5
Utah Count 5
West Virginia Count 5
Western Illinois Count 5
Wichita State Count 5
Wofford Count 5
Youngstown State Count 5
By my count, we have 11 scholarship players (assuming one is given to Ruedinger, which it should be)
Are we back to 13 for next year or do we still get extra from Covid?
I find it interesting that the best teams may look to refine their roster with transfers, not turn their roster over dramatically. Two data points are Kansas and North Carolina. North Carolina had two high profile transfers come in - Manek (who starts and plays big minutes) and Garcia (who has been on leave since January). Kansas has two transfers (Coleman-Lands and Yesufu) who play minimally. The core for both teams is comprised of players who have been at their school for at least two years.
Knocking on wood, as I type this, but if TK plays another year, and Kobe is granted another season, I think that we are in good position, all things considered. With limited video examples, I think that Nick Edwards is a good replacement for Sheldon leaving, and if Connor can return to his FR form, the loss of Keyondre/Trey is minimized. We would need someone to step up to replace what Kevion brought, however.
Quote from: valpotx on April 03, 2022, 01:58:09 PM
Knocking on wood, as I type this, but if TK plays another year, and Kobe is granted another season, I think that we are in good position, all things considered. With limited video examples, I think that Nick Edwards is a good replacement for Sheldon leaving, and if Connor can return to his FR form, the loss of Keyondre/Trey is minimized. We would need someone to step up to replace what Kevion brought, however.
[/b]
Maximus Nelson. 6'8" 200# SF, Rival 3 star, who shoots the 3 at about 35%, maybe a little better. Kevion shot 38%
Yes, but wasn't Trey a sharpshooter, as well? He was too slow in his release, so we can't put too much into HS stats.
Quote from: vu84v2 on April 03, 2022, 01:01:01 PM
I find it interesting that the best teams may look to refine their roster with transfers, not turn their roster over dramatically. Two data points are Kansas and North Carolina. North Carolina had two high profile transfers come in - Manek (who starts and plays big minutes) and Garcia (who has been on leave since January). Kansas has two transfers (Coleman-Lands and Yesufu) who play minimally. The core for both teams is comprised of players who have been at their school for at least two years.
Point of reference, Remy Martin was a super-senior transfer to Kansas from ASU. He has been their tempo difference-maker since the Big 8 err 12 Conference Tourney.
Quote from: valpo84 on April 04, 2022, 08:19:50 AM
Quote from: vu84v2 on April 03, 2022, 01:01:01 PM
I find it interesting that the best teams may look to refine their roster with transfers, not turn their roster over dramatically. Two data points are Kansas and North Carolina. North Carolina had two high profile transfers come in - Manek (who starts and plays big minutes) and Garcia (who has been on leave since January). Kansas has two transfers (Coleman-Lands and Yesufu) who play minimally. The core for both teams is comprised of players who have been at their school for at least two years.
Point of reference, Remy Martin was a super-senior transfer to Kansas from ASU. He has been their tempo difference-maker since the Big 8 err 12 Conference Tourney.
Can't believe that I missed that (and I am also a Kansas alum and fan). You are absolutely correct.
Loyola and GCU...?
Seriously? What a kick in the nuts to Valpo Fans...
I think Sheldon is going to the one that gives him a soft guarantee or most likely chance of starting + playing time.
https://twitter.com/sheldonnn13/status/1511038718978764802?s=21&t=3nHI9E94iVp4gMRZaxRwPQ
Guess Edwards wasn't homesick after all.
To be fair to Edwards. He indicated in his interview with Paul that this wasn't about wanting to be closer to home or feeling homesick but feeling like he didn't quite fit into the style of basketball that Valpo plays and wanted to go somewhere he felt he would fit more.
I think there can be a habit of wanting to either fully blame the coach or act like the players are lying/unreasonable. But many commenters on here talked badly about Edward's style of play and maybe it's because he never quite fit.
You can criticize him for wanting to play a different style but I feel like if he wants to try something or someplace different that's his right and his choice. As far as I can tell none of his family have every trash talked valpo. He's showed up and played and did his thing for Valpo. If it's not a fit or he feels like he has a limited amount of time to have a college basketball career and wants to do it somewhere else I feel like he can make that decision without anyone being at fault or "wrong" in these situations.
Quote from: crusader05 on April 04, 2022, 02:09:49 PM
To be fair to Edwards. He indicated in his interview with Paul that this wasn't about wanting to be closer to home or feeling homesick but feeling like he didn't quite fit into the style of basketball that Valpo plays and wanted to go somewhere he felt he would fit more.
I think there can be a habit of wanting to either fully blame the coach or act like the players are lying/unreasonable. But many commenters on here talked badly about Edward's style of play and maybe it's because he never quite fit.
You can criticize him for wanting to play a different style but I feel like if he wants to try something or someplace different that's his right and his choice. As far as I can tell none of his family have every trash talked valpo. He's showed up and played and did his thing for Valpo. If it's not a fit or he feels like he has a limited amount of time to have a college basketball career and wants to do it somewhere else I feel like he can make that decision without anyone being at fault or "wrong" in these situations.
If Bryce Drew thinks Sheldon Edwards can play in his system, I have faith in him being a fit there.
Maybe it was our lack of a system/scheme that helped push him out the door. Also need to keep in mind that Sheldon is very active on social media and he see all the hate and negativity surrounding Lottich from Fans bashing his "system" (or lack there of) and add on top of his tweet after the Bradley game, makes me think he wasn't a fan Lottich's offensive scheme. Plus, I think he'd still be around if we were winning. It's easier to sacrifice minutes and swallow playing a role (coming off the bench) you're not crazy about, when you're winning games. Winning is fun and I don't need to tell anyone on this board, we haven't been doing a lot of consistent winning in the Lottich era... (here's hoping he gets the boot after next season...).
Quote from: VU2014 on April 04, 2022, 02:59:42 PMTo be fair to Edwards. He indicated in his interview with Paul that this wasn't about wanting to be closer to home or feeling homesick but feeling like he didn't quite fit into the style of basketball that Valpo plays and wanted to go somewhere he felt he would fit more
And to be fair to Lottich I can't imagine Drew didn't put in a call to his former assistant before recruiting Edwards.
Edwards was homesick like JFL was homesick.
Those are actually great fits for Edwards.
Valpo needs to get in on some of these IU rejects.
Let's become what Nevada was a couple years ago and build a roster around other program's transfers. Become a steppingstone team for a couple years to become competitive and increase name/brand awareness. Then, once you have a little success and a foundation, you can build internally. Go full English Premier League. Let's become West Ham.
Quote from: valpo22 on April 05, 2022, 10:23:40 AM
All this transferring seems so chaotic, and has got to be so demoralizing for the team members left behind.
For some, yes. But, most of these guys are friends and understand a guy's reasoning/motivation for transferring – and, therefore, are fine with it. For others, they are happy a guy is gone because they complain a lot, etc. And, yes, it's definitely frustrating for some. But, being around a lot of players over the years, it's typically not that big of a deal. It's just the way it is.
Yeah I think that for those of us who are not fully plugged in there's an assumption of more "drama" around transferring than the players feel. BUT these are players who have or have had friends jump from AAU Team to AAU team, transfer schools, go to prep school etc etc etc. They know a lot of them are chasing the biggest opportunity with a short time clock to execute within and don't judge them.
In reality college basketball is just now catching up to a structure many of them are used to. They also now have so many more professional opportunities with over-seas basketball that it's no longer really a pro or not pro debate which may increase pressure on players who now feel like they have a shot but they need more exposure etc. Or some of them really just want to go to the tournament or play before a big crowd before their career is over and if they're not getting it from the school they're at why wouldn't they look elsewhere?
So at this point, relative to other Valley schools, Valpo is doing very well in the transfer-out portal.
I took a look at MVC Blog's guess at starting lineups--if everybody came back, and there are some major losses for several teams. This also takes into account those lost to graduation.
Here is their rankings if nobody left:
1. Northern Iowa Starters lost: 2 Carter and Green
2. Murray State Starters lost: 4 only Brown returns
3. Drake Starters lost: NONE
4. Missouri State Starters lost: 3 Black, Sharp and Moseley
5. Belmont Starters lost: 1 Richard
6. Bradley Starters lost: 1 Roberts
7. Southern Illinois Starters lost: 1 Verplincken
8. Illinois State Starters lost: 4 Reeves, Chapman, Strong and Freeman
9. Valpo Starters lost: 1 Edwards
10. Indiana State Starters lost: NONE
11.Evansville Starters lost: 3, Givance, Sisley and Newton
12.UIC Starters lost: 2, Griffin and Johnson
So based on just losses, Drake should be the overwhelming favorite followed by Belmont, Northern Iowa, Missouri State, Southern Illinois, Valpo, Indiana State, Bradley, Illinois State, Murray State, and a tie for worst between Evansville and UIC.
So there you have it! I'm going with Valpo finishing 6th, not playing on Thursday!
Quote from: vu72 on April 06, 2022, 09:46:44 AMo there you have it! I'm going with Valpo finishing 6th, not playing on Thursday!
With twelve teams, I believe we would have to finish in the top four to avoid Thursday.
Quote from: vu72 on April 06, 2022, 09:46:44 AMSo at this point, relative to other Valley schools, Valpo is doing very well in the transfer-out portal. I took a look at MVC Blog's guess at stating lineups--if everybody came back, and there are some major losses for several teams. Here is their rankings if nobody left: 1. Northern Iowa Starters lost: Carter 2. Murray State Starters lost: 4 only Brown returns 3. Drake Starters lost: NONE 4. Missouri State Starters lost: 2 Black and Sharp 5. Belmont Starters lost: NONE 6. Bradley Starters lost: 1 Roberts 7. Southern Illinois Starters lost: NONE 8. Illinois State Starters lost: 2 Reeves and Strong 9. Valpo Starters lost: 1 Edwards 10. Indiana State Starters lost: NONE 11.Evansville Starters lost: 2, Givance and Newton 12.UIC Starters lost: 2, Griffin and Johnson So based on just losses, Drake should be the overwhelming favorite followed by Belmont, Northern Iowa, Missouri State, Southern Illinois, Valpo, Indiana State, Bradley, Illinois State, Murray State, and a tie for worst between Evansville and UIC. So there you have it! I'm going with Valpo finishing 6th, not playing on Thursday!
This doesn't account for players lost to graduation though too... Anderson (when healthy) and Taylor were key starters for us... Edwards only started 10 of 32 games, so you could make the argument he wasn't even a starter (although he certainly played starter level minutes).
Quote from: vuny98 on April 06, 2022, 10:20:48 AM
Quote from: vu72 on April 06, 2022, 09:46:44 AMSo at this point, relative to other Valley schools, Valpo is doing very well in the transfer-out portal. I took a look at MVC Blog's guess at stating lineups--if everybody came back, and there are some major losses for several teams. Here is their rankings if nobody left: 1. Northern Iowa Starters lost: Carter 2. Murray State Starters lost: 4 only Brown returns 3. Drake Starters lost: NONE 4. Missouri State Starters lost: 2 Black and Sharp 5. Belmont Starters lost: NONE 6. Bradley Starters lost: 1 Roberts 7. Southern Illinois Starters lost: NONE 8. Illinois State Starters lost: 2 Reeves and Strong 9. Valpo Starters lost: 1 Edwards 10. Indiana State Starters lost: NONE 11.Evansville Starters lost: 2, Givance and Newton 12.UIC Starters lost: 2, Griffin and Johnson So based on just losses, Drake should be the overwhelming favorite followed by Belmont, Northern Iowa, Missouri State, Southern Illinois, Valpo, Indiana State, Bradley, Illinois State, Murray State, and a tie for worst between Evansville and UIC. So there you have it! I'm going with Valpo finishing 6th, not playing on Thursday!
This doesn't account for players lost to graduation though too... Anderson (when healthy) and Taylor were key starters for us... Edwards only started 10 of 32 games, so you could make the argument he wasn't even a starter (although he certainly played starter level minutes).
The MVC Blog I mentioned, posted their projected starters for NEXT year. all graduations were taken into account. Our projected starters were Thomas, Ben, Preston, Kobe and Sheldon.
Sheldon didn't feel comfortable in Lottich's system??? He should have known the system before he signed a NLI! Come on guys...this is just another case of the me, me, me thing just like so many other players and be sure to say/post something nice when leaving. This transfer thing has got to go in the form it is in. Who is kidding who? The Murray State fiasco losing basically their whole team and now St.Peter's losing 3 guys. A number of schools have loaded up on guys coming in from the portal and while some teams had success with a team of transfers many have had problems developing continuity and consistency, as in our case, when getting carried away with signing these "portal guys". I guess we need to develop HR Departments in our NCAA basketball programs to keep track of player personnel coming and going so the coaches can concentrate on coaching instead of giving personality tests along with mental health evaluations.
Quote from: humbleopinion on April 06, 2022, 09:50:35 AM
Quote from: vu72 on April 06, 2022, 09:46:44 AMo there you have it! I'm going with Valpo finishing 6th, not playing on Thursday!
With twelve teams, I believe we would have to finish in the top four to avoid Thursday.
Good question as to how they set up the tournament. One option is the last two don't make the tournament at all, then 7-10 play on Thursday etc. Another option would be for the bottom four to play on campus sites, with the winners getting to the tourney. They would then need five wins to get to the NCAAs. Who knows!
Quote from: valpo64 on April 06, 2022, 10:25:51 AM
This transfer thing has got to go in the form it is in. Who is kidding who? The Murray State fiasco losing basically their whole team and now St.Peter's losing 3 guys.
I can't blame players at these two schools when both of their coaches left for other programs.
Quote from: valpopal on April 06, 2022, 11:38:11 AM
Quote from: valpo64 on April 06, 2022, 10:25:51 AM
This transfer thing has got to go in the form it is in. Who is kidding who? The Murray State fiasco losing basically their whole team and now St.Peter's losing 3 guys.
I can't blame players at these two schools when both of their coaches left for other programs.
Agree but at Murray their old coach is coming back. His record was very good but perhaps his reputation with his players was less than stellar. Just seems odd that with a known coach with many years of ties to the school that basically the entire team bails.
Did he ever coach the players that are leaving? Just cause he has a history with Murray State doesn't mean that the players care about that.
I forgot that both of those coaches left which does somewhat change the situation. However, I still believe those scenarios are ridiculous. Are you serious? Almost the entire team wants to leave! Sorry, I don't get it.
Quote from: valpo64 on April 06, 2022, 07:33:01 PMI forgot that both of those coaches left which does somewhat change the situation. However, I still believe those scenarios are ridiculous. Are you serious? Almost the entire team wants to leave! Sorry, I don't get it.
Maybe the players didn't get why the coach is leaving?
2018 PF Patrick Cartier (6-8, 220, 2★) has received an offer from Valparaiso.
Played at D2 Hillsdale. Was a D2 All American. Also received offer from Toledo.
For me, this is another story about how awful this transfer portal has become: Three of St. Peter's leading players from their wondrous Elite 8 run have entered the portal, days after their coach jumped to Seton Hall.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/saint-peters-basketball-trio-enters-152402504.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/saint-peters-basketball-trio-enters-152402504.html)
OK, so I get a coach returning to his alma mater, assuming that was a dream job all along. As for the players, however, how do you just ditch the school that brought you together for one of the most memorable Cinderella stories in NCAA history?
Quote from: vuny98 on April 07, 2022, 07:36:40 AM
2018 PF Patrick Cartier (6-8, 220, 2★) has received an offer from Valparaiso.
Played at D2 Hillsdale. Was a D2 All American. Also received offer from Toledo.
Wondering...does he get an extra COVID season too? (He already played 3 years + RS year at Hillsdale.)
Also wondering if this confirms concerns about Kithier's health.
I completely understand it. Let's be honest, St. Peter's is not going to be as good next year, so why not leave and improve your situation? If you have the opportunity to go to Seton Hall with your old coach or even just go to a more competitive team (or a better school academically), you might as well take advantage of the situation. They are still going to be legends at St. Peter's even if they leave.
Think of it like a regular job. If you're an accountant at a small firm in the middle of nowhere, even if your boss was nice, wouldn't you leave to go to a bigger firm with a better salary in a better city? Mobility is a good thing. If you can improve your situation, you should always do it (if you want to).
Quote from: David81 on April 07, 2022, 10:52:01 AMQuote from: vuny98 on April 07, 2022, 07:36:40 AM2018 PF Patrick Cartier (6-8, 220, 2★) has received an offer from Valparaiso. Played at D2 Hillsdale. Was a D2 All American. Also received offer from Toledo.
Wondering...does he get an extra COVID season too? (He already played 3 years + RS year at Hillsdale.) Also wondering if this confirms concerns about Kithier's health.
Apparently a grad student with
two years of eligibility remaining.
Looks to be more of a scorer than Kithier, so may fit well together if Kithier is healthy. May be a good replacement to the role Taylor played.
Over his career, shot 65% from the field, 44% from three (only taking about 1 per game so take with a grain of salt) and averaged about 20 ppg.
Now its D2 and he is 6'8" so I am sure a lot of those points are easy layups and close shots which may have inflated his numbers a bit, but 44% from three (total sample of 100 shots) still shows he has a good shot from the outside.
Lorne Bowman II is transferring from Wisconsin. Wants to be closer to home. Valpo is closer to Detroit. Didn't we recruit him or offer him? Can't remember.
Quote from: vuny98 on April 07, 2022, 01:44:32 PMQuote from: David81 on April 07, 2022, 10:52:01 AMQuote from: vuny98 on April 07, 2022, 07:36:40 AM2018 PF Patrick Cartier (6-8, 220, 2★) has received an offer from Valparaiso. Played at D2 Hillsdale. Was a D2 All American. Also received offer from Toledo.
Wondering...does he get an extra COVID season too? (He already played 3 years + RS year at Hillsdale.) Also wondering if this confirms concerns about Kithier's health.
Apparently a grad student with two years of eligibility remaining. Looks to be more of a scorer than Kithier, so may fit well together if Kithier is healthy. May be a good replacement to the role Taylor played. Over his career, shot 65% from the field, 44% from three (only taking about 1 per game so take with a grain of salt) and averaged about 20 ppg. Now its D2 and he is 6'8" so I am sure a lot of those points are easy layups and close shots which may have inflated his numbers a bit, but 44% from three (total sample of 100 shots) still shows he has a good shot from the outside.
Video of him playing at Hllsdale https://youtu.be/ke1p-rGNBR8[/size]
Report that I have seen (within Marquette fan base) show that Patrick Cartier has interest from Colorado and Marquette.
Quote from: vu84v2 on April 10, 2022, 12:00:18 PMReport that I have seen (within Marquette fan base) show that Patrick Cartier has interest from Colorado and Marquette.
I saw someplace on the interwebs....which I've heard is never wrong...that there was interest from Wisconsin as well.
Quote from: tiny707 on April 09, 2022, 07:56:51 AMLorne Bowman II is transferring from Wisconsin. Wants to be closer to home. Valpo is closer to Detroit. Didn't we recruit him or offer him? Can't remember.
He has committed to Oakland University
Quote from: VUBBFan on April 10, 2022, 10:32:44 AM
Quote from: vuny98 on April 07, 2022, 01:44:32 PMQuote from: David81 on April 07, 2022, 10:52:01 AMQuote from: vuny98 on April 07, 2022, 07:36:40 AM2018 PF Patrick Cartier (6-8, 220, 2★) has received an offer from Valparaiso. Played at D2 Hillsdale. Was a D2 All American. Also received offer from Toledo.
Wondering...does he get an extra COVID season too? (He already played 3 years + RS year at Hillsdale.) Also wondering if this confirms concerns about Kithier's health.
Apparently a grad student with two years of eligibility remaining. Looks to be more of a scorer than Kithier, so may fit well together if Kithier is healthy. May be a good replacement to the role Taylor played. Over his career, shot 65% from the field, 44% from three (only taking about 1 per game so take with a grain of salt) and averaged about 20 ppg. Now its D2 and he is 6'8" so I am sure a lot of those points are easy layups and close shots which may have inflated his numbers a bit, but 44% from three (total sample of 100 shots) still shows he has a good shot from the outside.
Video of him playing at Hllsdale https://youtu.be/ke1p-rGNBR8[/size]
He's got that little hitch in his shot, kinda like Kevion. Must be a D2 thing!
Patrick Carter seems like a great fit with our program. He is probably a good student if he was attracted to Hillsdale. His home in Wisconsin so perhaps will draw more fans to see his games and stay for both of his two years. Crazy to think that I just said the last sentence. But it's a different world.
Quinton Green 6'7" D II guard transfers to Valpo:
Green scored 23 points when Cedarville played VU in an exhibition game in October 2019. He had 7 rebounds and shot 3 of 4 from 3 point range. VU won 85 to 65
Between Edwards and Green, I feel that we have replaced Sheldon and Kevion pretty well, with folks that can immediately replace their productivity. Who cares about the season after next, we can't depend on developing HS kids at this point. If we keep 1-2 FR each year and fill in with transfers, that seems to be all that we can do. I wonder how this is impacting D3. A decent amount of top D2 players take the final year for D1, and I have to believe top D3 players take the step up to D2.
With his size and shooting ability he reminds me of what we expected from Young, although he appears to be bigger, thicker, body wise.
Look at Quinton Green's D2 stats and you'll see a guy steadily averaging 12-13 ppg. Very solid player on strong teams. By comparison, Kevion was a D2 star scoring at 20 ppg the year before he arrived at VU. So I see Green as a quality rotation player who offers some scoring punch, but unlikely to match Kevion's production.
Nick Edwards, however, could be the best pure point guard that Valpo has seen in some time, a great passer who can score.
What?
https://twitter.com/RuedingerP/status/1515724334823874568?cxt=HBwWkIC9qY_Q94gqAAAA&cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjcw%3D%3D&refsrc=email
Could this just be an academic thing where Slim just couldn't cut it at Valpo? Weird.
I too was thinking maybe it was academic . Schools may have said get your grades up and we will revisit you. He's got so much potential.
Yeah, he would have no limit on D-1 schools interested in his services. It has to be something else outside of playing basketball.
No he was a 3.0 student, sometimes you have to start all over to get where you want to be
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trevor_Hudgins
Insane long shot, but he would awesome.
In Young's situation, if it is not an academic issue I find it a stranger situation than if it was.
Hopefully it all works out for him.
Recurring theme, which has played out on the court last few years. Players roles on the court, uncertain. Most the of transfers have been lateral the last 3, 4 years, except Bakari and JFL. Over a 1,000 transfers, some guys are gonna slip through the cracks. Really no highlights to speak of from Young last year. His stellar senior year in high school is a distant memory evidently. He's not transferring for better facilities or competition.
My only basketball knowledge of Triton is that a talented walk on from SIU transferred there after his freshman year and is now playing D2 in Florida. He can definitely prove himself. He has a high ceiling. Glad he is doing well in school. I am amazed someone knows his GPA.
Triton was a fantastic Juco for Baseball, 'back in my day' :)
Quote from: AB on April 18, 2022, 11:08:52 AMRecurring theme, which has played out on the court last few years. Players roles on the court, uncertain. Most the of transfers have been lateral the last 3, 4 years, except Bakari and JFL. Over a 1,000 transfers, some guys are gonna slip through the cracks. Really no highlights to speak of from Young last year. His stellar senior year in high school is a distant memory evidently. He's not transferring for better facilities or competition.
...and aside from JFL really had no affect on...well...anybody. Not the outgoing players, not the program and not the incoming players. It's just re-shuffling the deck.
That said....this one is still odd.
Find it disturbing that people who don't know Slim whatsoever think he's leaving because of academics. Maybe he transferred to Triton to develop his game more for a better D1 fit. No offense but folks on here think Valpo is this elite IVY institution. It's a nice school, but it's not all that academically.
Lottich's Valpo Team have just made me numb...
It's getting harder and harder to emotionally invest in his Team's and players. What a kick in the 🥜
https://twitter.com/sheldonnn13/status/1516218251763765252?s=21&t=UrhiVQjx6Eneu0KNwF5VAg
I don't mind it, as much. They are moving to the A-10, and have experienced more success than Valpo in recent years. I would care more if it was Butler, versus Loyola. I like Sheldon overall, but his 1-on-1 style is not a fit for Valpo.
Quotebut his 1-on-1 style is not a fit for Valpo.
Is his 1-on-1 style really going to fit it at Loyola? I thought they played more as a team.
Sheldon to Gryffindor stings a bit. But it's probably a good fit. He is a talented player and Loyola is doing now what Vu did in the 90s and early 00s. Build a system and a culture. Insert talented players. Rinse. Repeat. Not everyone works out, of course, but you'll end up competing more years than not.
Quote from: mj on April 19, 2022, 06:28:51 AM
Quotebut his 1-on-1 style is not a fit for Valpo.
Is his 1-on-1 style really going to fit it at Loyola? I thought they played more as a team.
Loyola emphasizes team-oriented offense and defense more than most teams. Sheldon will either need to change his style or his minutes will be limited. His defensive and rebounding skills should work well within Loyola's system. I do hope that he does well.
QuoteLoyola emphasizes team-oriented offense and defense more than most teams. Sheldon will either need to change his style or his minutes will be limited. His defensive and rebounding skills should work well within Loyola's system. I do hope that he does well.
I also wish Shelton well, he always spoke well of the team, coaches and fellow players when interviewed. However, I got tired of hearing what a great defender he was. Yes, his athleticism allowed him to defend one on one, but his team concept of defense was sorely lacking. Sheldon had a tendency to be a ball watcher. If the player he was defending didn't have the ball he often became disinterested and lost focus on the overall defensive team scheme. Give me Trevon Walker defensively over Sheldon any day. Don't get me wrong, Sheldon is an unbelievable athlete, and that athleticism allowed him to hide many of his deficiencies. If his basketball IQ improves along with his ballhandling skills, he could be one heck of a player. I hope that's what happens.
https://twitter.com/MatthewBain_/status/1516813642683060228
Great observation on Sheldon, FWalum. There is no question that he will need to change his game if he wants to play minutes for Loyola.
Now as far as those posters who appear to know, or think they know, all about these portal circumstances, what are your thoughts about the A J Green announcement?
Quote from: valpo64 on April 20, 2022, 12:07:40 PM
Great observation on Sheldon, FWalum. There is no question that he will need to change his game if he wants to play minutes for Loyola.
Now as far as those posters who appear to know, or think they know, all about these portal circumstances, what are your thoughts about the A J Green announcement?
t was obvious to me ( a true non-expert) that AJ was an NBA talent from the first time I saw him. His injury may have changed that some but I doubt it. All the NBA scouts know about AJ. The only question is how he will hold up against tougher talent. If they are convinced then he'll go in the draft. If not, then they may want him to move up a conference or two to convince the powers that he can play.
More importantly to us is how this development translates to the Valley. I saw them as a top 2 or 3 team, with Belmont--both following Drake. UNI also lost another starter in Carter. If we can somehow find some extra talent that doesn't take till late February to jell, based on all the conference guys in the portal, we certainly should be in discussions for the upper half.
AJ is definitely an NBA talent. His shot is pure gold
As of today, there have been 1448 Division 1 players who have entered the portal. That number exceeds an average of four players per team.
What a joke! What kind of obligations do players have these days? Not many in my book...wine, cry, complain and transfer. Then as many of our posters do, blame the coach.
64, the players should have a choice to transfer for that one chance. Coaches are leaving for other jobs, and players should have that right.
That being said, I would get rid of the graduate transfer rule. For the graduate transfer, The degrees most of these players have received are a joke.
Just give everyone one chance to transfer and leave it at that.
I know there are some drawbacks and transferring those put an additional strain on coaches/programs. But, the one transfer and/or sit out a year rules were overly prohibitive and unnecessary. I personally don't see the problem with giving players more freedom. If they want to transfer, let them transfer. You only have 4/5 years of eligibility, why not make the most of it.
Yes, the numbers themselves appear rather large. But, I think the claims of catastrophic effects of the transfer rules are largely overblown.Last year was a super exciting college basketball season. The transfer portal didn't ruin it.
(Side-note: I think it's a little much to call people unloyal, uncommitted, or whiners if they transfer. Maybe some. But, let's be real, if you had the opportunity to go from playing in Manhattan, Kansas to Miami and earn an extra $800,000, you would transfer too. Sometimes in life you just have to seize opportunities)
I see that Missouri State is up to eight transfers. So far, Donovan is remaining loyal to the Bears.
Predictions for the 22-23 MVC season may be challenging to make.
Quote from: mp91 on April 25, 2022, 03:26:43 PM
I know there are some drawbacks and transferring those put an additional strain on coaches/programs. But, the one transfer and/or sit out a year rules were overly prohibitive and unnecessary. I personally don't see the problem with giving players more freedom. If they want to transfer, let them transfer. You only have 4/5 years of eligibility, why not make the most of it.
Yes, the numbers themselves appear rather large. But, I think the claims of catastrophic effects of the transfer rules are largely overblown.Last year was a super exciting college basketball season. The transfer portal didn't ruin it.
Jerry Seinfeld once joked that "we don't root for players, we root for laundry." These initial outcomes from a far more open transfer policy seem to support that.
Quote from: vu84v2 on April 26, 2022, 03:42:09 PMJerry Seinfeld once joked that "we don't root for players, we root for laundry."
I am a total misfit for this generalization and as board participation decreases it becomes more obvious that for board, program and institutional success we need both "laundry" and basketball "player development" lovers. Devoid of most serious continuity I'm hoping I can find a way to take interest in our incoming talents.
It has yet to happen.
I am waiting for the post Lottich age before getting truly excited about Valpo basketball, but it seems to me that the athletic department needs to market the team to fans. You need a way to get to know these new guys so you want to be there to cheer for them. The players need to get out there and get the students excited! The portal is here to stay. And the portal isn't all bad. If players are unhappy with a program , they don't have to stay, be miserable, and bring everyone else down. You get new blood who is excited and ready to go. The landscape has changed and we all have to adjust with it.
Quote from: chgovalpofan on April 26, 2022, 04:53:53 PMIf players are unhappy with a program , they don't have to stay, be miserable, and bring everyone else down.
The problem, of course, is that unhappiness with a program can have multiple causes and solutions. A system where commitment means little can stunt growth and changing programs may not bring happiness, relieve misery, or eliminate negative influence if the problem is NOT the program.
I hear what folks are saying about a player's right to seek out the best situation, but there are unfortunate dynamics that are enabled by current transfer policies:
-Supplanting the idea of a student-athlete with a policy of pro-like free agency, while vastly under appreciating the opportunities provided by a full-ride scholarship and an accompanying four-year course of study, especially where the school (e.g., VU) offers a high-quality undergraduate education;
-The use of social media for performative pronouncements invoking faith, family, and terms like "gratitude" to explain transfer decisions, when the real priorities are usually playing time and -- mostly in their wildest dreams -- chances at NBA glory;
-The net negative effect on the game itself, undermining the ability to build a team over a course of seasons, because the end of each season now involves a massive resetting of the deck chairs.
I understand that not all transfer decisions implicate these dynamics. But especially with the transfer portal, many do.
Quote from: David81 on April 27, 2022, 09:48:24 AMThe net negative effect on the game itself, undermining the ability to build a team over a course of seasons, because the end of each season now involves a massive resetting of the deck chairs.
I have been a hard core fan of college basketball since the mid 1960's and it has taken this to temp me to abandon interest in the game. If I abandon VU basketball then I will not be looking for a replacement because the same issues are everywhere.
Moseley from Missouri state now in portal. Some unhappy peeps in bearland.
I wonder if maybe Mosely saw Antonio Reeves land at Kentucky and feels he can make the jump to a major P5 program as well?
Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
Quote from: RS on April 28, 2022, 08:39:31 PM
Moseley from Missouri state now in portal. Some unhappy peeps in bearland.
For all the concerns expressed about transfers away from Valpo, at least so far, Valpo is WAY better than some in the Valley. Witness what has happened at Missouri State where three projected starters are now gone and one of them was perhaps the best player in the league. Or how about Northern Iowa where two projected starters are now in the portal and one of them is the best if not the second best player in the league. Or how about Murray State where four projected starters are now gone or Illinois State losing Reeves and Strong or even lowly Evansville losing three starters including Givance, Newton and Sisley.
The league is going to be a complete unknown, other than of course, Drake and Belmont, which should be very tough and will be the undoubted projected top two teams.
I know Moseley was offered some very strong NIL incentives to try to keep him. Those fans have to be burning. They did everything they could and STILL came up short to keep him. This is the part of the portal I really don't like. I don't think he was unhappy. MSU was very good to him.
I really hope that they make it hard to transfer a second time and get immediate playing time. Once I can deal with, but they have to be more stringent on the team jumpers. This year we will see if the eligibility process changes. If it's a free for all then the entire process is worthless and it is total free agency. That would be sad.
I love that this is happening to Clay, after his actions in our MVC tournament game. Karma.
Mosley can be in the NBA now.
Mid majors cannot compete with the power 5 schools in guaranteed extra money for promotional activities, etc. This is one of the main reasons why this rule, including the ability to transfer, is so stupid. These top flight mid-major guys are out looking for cash while playing at the college level. Valley schools cannot compete with the Kentuckys, Iowas, etc. when it comes to giving the player the opportunity to earn extra cash. That is why the big schools should be by themselves and the mid-majors, etc, should have their own division in the NCAA. The NCAA is nothing but a pawn oof the major conferences no matter what they try to convey to the public in general. Something has got to change!
Mark Emmert was a wimpy, pathetic leader and could not stand on anything and complete arrogant scumbag. His solution was to form a committee and wait 5 years to get an answe. Good riddance to him.
Case in point with this Miami player (Wong) having his 'NIL Agent' go public with a demand for more NIL, otherwise he will enter the transfer portal. How did these folks not seeing this coming? Absolutely ridiculous...
Quote from: valpo64 on April 29, 2022, 01:59:23 PM
Mid majors cannot compete with the power 5 schools in guaranteed extra money for promotional activities, etc. This is one of the main reasons why this rule, including the ability to transfer, is so stupid. These top flight mid-major guys are out looking for cash while playing at the college level. Valley schools cannot compete with the Kentuckys, Iowas, etc. when it comes to giving the player the opportunity to earn extra cash. That is why the big schools should be by themselves and the mid-majors, etc, should have their own division in the NCAA. The NCAA is nothing but a pawn oof the major conferences no matter what they try to convey to the public in general. Something has got to change!
I understand and share the frustration here. For the most part, mid-major conferences cannot compete with the big schools for NIL - which is going to foster ever increasing transfers. This is somewhat offset by there being one ball and 200 minutes available on the court, as well college basketball being a team game.
However, I do not agree with dividing into separate divisions. The best example of why this would be bad is FBS and FCS football, in which the FCS television rights are likely a few percent of what it is for FBS. If there were such a split, the "non mid-major" group would be much more like D2 basketball is now. If there ever were a move by the big schools to try to split D1 basketball, I would hope and expect the ~250 schools that would be left out of the top division to file an anti-trust lawsuit against the big conference schools (since they would be denied the right to fairly compete).
If there were two divisions, the upper division would continue to poach from the lower division, so it would do nothing to solve the problem.
Do bigger schools have someone in the program whose job includes lining up NILs for players, or does that have to happen under the table?
It certainly poses a new set of problems, but it also creates a new set of advantages. Scholarships in college basketball are mostly a 0 sum game. In order for these mid major stars to go up, some people have to go down. Open up the possibility to nab maybe some more talented players that haven't performed yet.
It sucks that schools like us have become a farm to develop players and not get to reap the benefits of their junior and senior years, but we will also likely cash in with transfer ups from D2. We did with Kevion last year, and our 3 transfer ups this year looks really promising. I have to give credit to Lottich this off-season. Handled the transfer situation much better than most schools. Hopefully his in game coaching experiences an equally dumbfounding improvement this coming season.
Well we are at May 2 with only 3 transfers. I would say that is a success given past history. Hopefully the new players are coming in with something to prove. We need team chemistry as we will not get much from strategy side. I continue to cheer for the program, even though I am very disappointed in the current leadership.
Quote from: chgovalpofan on May 02, 2022, 09:55:29 AM
Well we are at May 2 with only 3 transfers. I would say that is a success given past history. Hopefully the new players are coming in with something to prove. We need team chemistry as we will not get much from strategy side. I continue to cheer for the program, even though I am very disappointed in the current leadership.
If Matt had been fired we certainly would have had a mass exodus. Look what happened at Murray and Illinois State. Even Missouri State with the same coach has had something like 8 players transfer. All in all, I expect a much better result next year--caveat--IF, as you suggest, chemistry is working. On paper we have added a very experienced point guard, which we lacked once Anderson went down, a 6'7" shooter, who should be a matchup problem, and an athletic big who can take pressure off Ben and Thomas. These facts coupled with the departure of two of the leagues best players, should help our chances.
When does the portal close?
Humbleopinion
Purdue is currently looking for the following position
Director Of NIL (Name, Image, Likeness) Engagement – Purdue University - Purdue
Position Overview: Purdue University Athletics Department is looking for a dynamic and passionate leader for the newly created, Director, NIL Engagement. This position will report to the Chief Executive Officer and work closely with Purdue Athletics leadership on all NIL related topics. In addition, they will build relationships with business leaders, corporate partners, donors, and all external constituents interested in NIL opportunities.
Portal deadline was May 1 for fall and winter sports.
Quote from: valpo84 on May 02, 2022, 02:21:23 PMPurdue is currently looking for the following position
Director Of NIL (Name, Image, Likeness) Engagement – Purdue University - Purdue
Position Overview: Purdue University Athletics Department is looking for a dynamic and passionate leader for the newly created, Director, NIL Engagement. This position will report to the Chief Executive Officer and work closely with Purdue Athletics leadership on all NIL related topics. In addition, they will build relationships with business leaders, corporate partners, donors, and all external constituents interested in NIL opportunities.
So the goal of this hire is to make Purdue athletes the best paid in the Big Ten, or is that a bit too cynical?
All things considered only 3 transfers is a reall ygood outcome. This is the year we will finally see if Lottich can lead. He has had relative stability for once. The team should have plenty of experience playing together and the league is wide open with the transfers experienced by UNI Missouri State and Murray State. Dare I say that there is reason for optimism that our long coveted top 4 finish might not be far off? If Lottich really is a good coach simply the victim of bad luck he should be able to do it this year. If we're mediocre again I think the questions and criticisms are more than fair at this point and the time to look in a different direction will be here.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on May 10, 2022, 07:30:34 PM
All things considered only 3 transfers is a reall ygood outcome. This is the year we will finally see if Lottich can lead. He has had relative stability for once. The team should have plenty of experience playing together and the league is wide open with the transfers experienced by UNI Missouri State and Murray State. Dare I say that there is reason for optimism that our long coveted top 4 finish might not be far off? If Lottich really is a good coach simply the victim of bad luck he should be able to do it this year. If we're mediocre again I think the questions and criticisms are more than fair at this point and the time to look in a different direction will be here.
This is a good post. And welcome back from the Darkside.....over 2 months without a peep had me worried old friend ;)
This could be the turning point for Valpo in the MVC. It took us 5 years in the HL, I will take 6 years in the MVC...
Apologies if I missed it, but Connor Barrett? I realize we have very few beat reporters covering the team, but not a even one substantial rumor. Is he or is not on the team anymore? Certainly not expecting him to be the savior of the program, but showed good promise during covid times (freshman year).
He hasn't declared for the transfer portal so my assumption is he's still on the team. Same as Emil and Cameron and others.
https://twitter.com/ADavidHaleJoint/status/1524071293917835265
Brey is awesome. Glad someone finally said it. Way too much complaining going on over this.
Quote from: mp91 on May 12, 2022, 01:42:22 PM
https://twitter.com/ADavidHaleJoint/status/1524071293917835265
Brey is awesome. Glad someone finally said it. Way too much complaining going on over this.
Is it possible that Mike Brey has an alumni base willing and able to pay the very best athletes to play for Notre Dame?
:) :) One usually complains when something is not right...ND is one of many schools that have big money bases and we now have a sophisticated form of play for pay. Let's not kid ourselves...like it or not...it is what it is. It may take awhile but soon the big boys will control it all and everyone will have to adjust to the new norm.
Quote from: valpo64 on May 02, 2022, 01:36:26 PM
When does the portal close?
Opening hours
Monday: 11:00 AM – 9:00 PM
Tuesday: 11:00 AM – 9:00 PM
Wednesday: 11:00 AM – 9:00 PM
Thursday: 11:00 AM – 9:00 PM
Friday: 11:00 AM – 10:00 PM
Saturday: 11:00 AM – 10:00 PM
Sunday: 11:00 AM – 7:30 PM
https://usarestaurants.info/explore/united-states/kentucky/harlan-county/harlan/the-portal-606-573-0505.htm
I like it :)
Trey Woodyard to New Hampshire
Good for him, and keeps him in D-1, but within a lower tier conference that seems like a better fit.
Went to new hampshire last summer time. Beautiful state. Wish my basketball (in)abilities took me there for a couple of years.
Quote from: humbleopinion on May 12, 2022, 03:17:38 PM
Quote from: mp91 on May 12, 2022, 01:42:22 PM
https://twitter.com/ADavidHaleJoint/status/1524071293917835265
Brey is awesome. Glad someone finally said it. Way too much complaining going on over this.
Is it possible that Mike Brey has an alumni base willing and able to pay the very best athletes to play for Notre Dame?
Except, they do not have the very best athletes playing for Notre Dame basketball. They have not dominated the transfer portal. They still have subpar talent considering the program's previous stature. So, I don't think name, image, likeness has really had much impact on the team (at least not of yet). Plus, almost every team in their conference has nearly as powerful of alumni.
https://twitter.com/jucorecruiting/status/1538719352085782528?s=21&t=le4xMnzRSaYBM1SWl-wYsA
That's an interesting development. I didn't understand the JuCo route for him and undershooting his talent, but Missouri offering seems a bit like overshooting. He was also offered by New Mexico State, which might serve him better initially. How is he considered part of Triton, if he will never play for them?
Quote from: valpotx on June 20, 2022, 06:30:33 AM
That's an interesting development. I didn't understand the JuCo route for him and undershooting his talent, but Missouri offering seems a bit like overshooting. He was also offered by New Mexico State, which might serve him better initially. How is he considered part of Triton, if he will never play for them?
Despite the dramatic difference in conference strength, one could make a pretty good argument that New Mexico State has been better than Missouri in recent years.
Congrats to Jake LaRavia on being drafted in the first round by the Minnesota Timberwolves! A rare individual to step up in conference, and improve his draft stock significantly.
https://insider.espn.com/nbadraft/results/player/_/id/106055
For those of you who thought the transfer trend would slow down after 1741 transferred in 2021, surprise! The current total in 2022 is...1741!! :o
Quote from: VU2014 on June 20, 2022, 12:31:52 AM
https://twitter.com/jucorecruiting/status/1538719352085782528?s=21&t=le4xMnzRSaYBM1SWl-wYsA
I am assuming this is for next season. Mizzou's new coach is putting together quite a mid major program. This season they added one from Noarthern Iowa, Missouri State and UWM plus 4 came with him from Cleveland State. It will be interesting to see how they do. In total 12 news faces.
Quote from: vu72 on July 18, 2022, 10:45:43 AM
For those of you who thought the transfer trend would slow down after 1741 transferred in 2021, surprise! The current total in 2022 is...1741!! :o
I believe that would be called a level change.
Are there not more division I schools this season than last? Would that not make it a lower percentage?
Sure glad I was wrong on my prediction of "more than three" for the Valpo MBB poll above.
2021-22 Transfer Portal Stats
1 out of 12 players who transferred this year went up in the portal, the rest transferred lateral or down.
46% of NCAA players who entered the portal this year will not play NCAA basketball in the upcoming 2022-23 season.
https://mobile.twitter.com/TP4PT/status/1554216422515113986
Obviously portaling is a great option for some players, but with numbers like these, hopefully the numbers will be tampered in the future ?
Quote from: historyman on July 19, 2022, 01:25:41 PM
Quote from: vu72 on July 18, 2022, 10:45:43 AM
For those of you who thought the transfer trend would slow down after 1741 transferred in 2021, surprise! The current total in 2022 is...1741!! :o
I believe that would be called a level change.
Are there not more division I schools this season than last? Would that not make it a lower percentage?
Sure glad I was wrong on my prediction of "more than three" for the Valpo MBB poll above.
Accept the new total is 1792, so up 51 from the previous year. Yes, there are more D1's. The current total is 363, so that is an average of 4.94 transfers per school. Valpo at 3 is very solid.
Quote from: elephtheria47 on August 01, 2022, 10:20:25 PM2021-22 Transfer Portal Stats 1 out of 12 players who transferred this year went up in the portal, the rest transferred lateral or down. 46% of NCAA players who entered the portal this year will not play NCAA basketball in the upcoming 2022-23 season. https://mobile.twitter.com/TP4PT/status/1554216422515113986 (https://mobile.twitter.com/TP4PT/status/1554216422515113986)HERE (https://betpokies.co.nz/instant-banking-casinos) Obviously portaling is a great option for some players, but with numbers like these, hopefully the numbers will be tampered in the future ?
It turns out that about half of the players are not in demand in the market. Is it their level so low or does the league have high demands?
QuoteIt turns out that about half of the players are not in demand in the market. Is it their level so low or does the league have high demands?
I think it's an issue of limited rosters spots and fungible talent. Guys overvalue themselves when they're actually replacement level players.
Quote from: mj on October 11, 2022, 09:51:04 AM
QuoteIt turns out that about half of the players are not in demand in the market. Is it their level so low or does the league have high demands?
I think it's an issue of limited rosters spots and fungible talent. Guys overvalue themselves when they're actually replacement level players.
I think DI rosters spots are in shorter supply for a couple of reasons. First, many players are staying around for a 5th season by using the "Covid Year" exemption. After the first year, those guys count as one of your 13 scholarships, so fewer spots for incoming freshman and transfers. Secondly, many high major players are staying in school longer because they can make as much in NLI money as they would playing professionally overseas.