I thought we might want to create a new Topic specifically to discuss what's happening around the Valley.
Valley Exhibition/Scrimmage News:
-Braves' 87-57 wins over Robert Morris
https://twitter.com/CJCunningham3/status/925901885374164992
Loyola almost beat Northwestern in a "secret-scrimmage". It's only a scrimmage but that's impressive because Northwestern is suppose to be a Top 25 Team.
https://twitter.com/Catch_N_Shoot/status/926246791280029696
https://twitter.com/Catch_N_Shoot/status/926249069864988672
MVC Injury News:
-Illinois State 7-footer Ndiaye out 6 weeks with stress fracture
-Illinois State freshman guard Elijah Clarance, also sidelined with a stress fracture
http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/illinois-state/isu--footer-ndiaye-out-six-weeks-with-stress-fracture/article_aad123e4-2e2d-5b31-b5d7-c3485901d08c.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=user-share
http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/injuries-mounting-in-mvc/
https://twitter.com/THefferman/status/926201037626728451
UNI almost lost to D2 team in a exhibition game today... Some media members were giving UNI 1st place votes in the MVC.
https://twitter.com/CJCunningham3/status/927279908920987653
https://twitter.com/CJCunningham3/status/927304582472093696
https://twitter.com/CJCunningham3/status/927278791956852736
Illinois State also played an exhibition against D2 Lewis University today. I caught part of the game and Taylor Bruninga didn't look bad. Illinois State is really short handed because of injuries and one of their players is away for undisclosed "personal reasons". They only dressed 8 scholarship players.
https://twitter.com/Pg_Benson/status/927291350009118720
Quote from: VU2014 on November 05, 2017, 07:08:16 PM
UNI almost lost to D2 team in a exhibition game today... Some media members were giving UNI 1st place votes in the MVC.
Wow. It's telling that many teams are struggling with D2 teams, but Valpo dominated D2 Robert Morris. Show how little media nows.
Quote from: EddieCabot on November 05, 2017, 07:19:42 PMShow how little media nows.
Your right! Media nows more than it knows and never says "no"s to now news, ;)
Quote from: EddieCabot on November 05, 2017, 07:19:42 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on November 05, 2017, 07:08:16 PM
UNI almost lost to D2 team in a exhibition game today... Some media members were giving UNI 1st place votes in the MVC.
Wow. It's telling that many teams are struggling with D2 teams, but Valpo dominated D2 Robert Morris. Show how little media (k)nows.
I think style of play and match ups will greatly influence who Valpo plays well against and who Valpo struggles against.
Three men short (starters 6-8 thik Bol, 6-5 PG Marcus Bartley and 6-8 PF Austin Weiher (a reserve), 6-5 guard Armon Fletcher 15, 6-9 reserve center Rudy Stradnieks 11 and PG Eric McGill looked great as a sub for Bartley with 10 points, 6 assists and 5 steals.
SIU got good news on Bol--he had a small tear in his Meniscus (Knee) but was already at game walking (albeit slowly) without aid (no crutched or even a cane)--he will be back by December--as will Bartley
Robert Morris is NAIA D2 - big difference from NCAA D2
I definitely think it is too early to get super excited. As we know, Chicago State is a dumpster fire and Robert Morris is NAIA D2. A lot of the other MVC teams do have injury problems right now which account for their rough starts in exhibition/scrimmages. I am sure we will have our fair share of injuries this year, all teams go through rough stretches on health.
I am pleased to see we have taken care of business early, but I am just not sure it means anything yet. I would like to see how we do in our 1st 3 true D1 regular season games before over analyzing anything.
Quote from: SanityLost17 on November 06, 2017, 09:39:06 AMI am sure we will have our fair share of injuries this year, all teams go through rough stretches on health.
In case you didn't read it or notice, Micah Bradford is day-to-day with a foot/ankle injury. Valpo seems to have an abundance of guards at this time so it is not nearly hurting the Crusaders as much as when both Keith Carter and Lexus Williams were both injured. Valpo has the ability to get through the injuries with it's current depth.
Quote from: SanityLost17 on November 06, 2017, 09:39:06 AM
I definitely think it is too early to get super excited. As we know, Chicago State is a dumpster fire and Robert Morris is NAIA D2. A lot of the other MVC teams do have injury problems right now which account for their rough starts in exhibition/scrimmages. I am sure we will have our fair share of injuries this year, all teams go through rough stretches on health.
I am pleased to see we have taken care of business early, but I am just not sure it means anything yet. I would like to see how we do in our 1st 3 true D1 regular season games before over analyzing anything.
I agree with all of this. I'd also like to see how we do against higher level competition. I want to see how this team defends good half court offenses. RMU was just clearly less talented & they were pressing the whole game. I wasn't at the CSU game but it sounds like their offense heavily involved setting screes for Sims Jr. and he just wasn't making shots. CSU only shot 15% (3-20) from 3 and they had a horrendous Field Goal % of 24.1% (13-58).
Judging from the post game comments from Coach Lottich he was very happy with the defensive effort of the team as a whole. How much of that do we attribute to the Valpo's Defense and how much do we attribute to CSU being an awful team and were they just missing open looks? I don't know because I wasn't at the game.
https://twitter.com/JeffEisenberg/status/927908465644675072
https://sports.yahoo.com/ranking-new-college-basketball-seasons-strongest-leagues-1-12-135213481.html
Ranking this college basketball season's strongest leagues from 1 to 12
Jeff Eisenberg
Nov 7, 2017
1. ACC
2. BIG 12
3. BIG EAST
4. BIG TEN
5. SEC
6. PAC-12
7. AMERICAN ATHLETIC CONFERENCE
8. ATLANTIC 10
9. WEST COAST CONFERENCE
10. MOUNTAIN WEST
11. MISSOURI VALLEY CONFERENCE
Pick to win the league title: Missouri State
Projected NCAA tournament teams: 1 (Missouri State)
Three players to watch: Alize Scott, F, Missouri State; Bennett Koch, F, Northern Iowa; Donte Ingram, G/F, Loyola
Coach under the most pressure: Barry Hinson, Southern Illinois
Outlook: Creighton left for the Big East four years ago. Wichita State bolted for the American Athletic Conference this past spring. With its two former flagship programs now playing elsewhere, the Missouri Valley Conference appears in jeopardy of becoming a perennial one-bid league. Missouri State could be the class of the league this season, but the Bears didn't assemble a strong enough non-league schedule to give themselves realistic hope of an at-large NCAA tournament bid. Northern Iowa and Illinois State are the league's strongest remaining brands, but the Panthers have some holes in their backcourt and the Redbirds were decimated by offseason transfers. Wichita State kept the Valley nationally relevant the past five years by producing a Final Four, an undefeated regular season and 10 NCAA tournament victories. An heir apparent may someday emerge, but for now the Shockers appear irreplaceable.
12. CONFERENCE USA
They're sleeping on Tevonn and I'd argue even though Valpo Basketball just joined the Conference, I think we're already one of the League's strongest "brands" nationally.
Quote from: VU2014 on November 07, 2017, 12:44:35 PMQuoteNorthern Iowa and Illinois State are the league's strongest remaining brands, but the Panthers have some holes in their backcourt and the Redbirds were decimated by offseason transfers. Wichita State kept the Valley nationally relevant the past five years by producing a Final Four, an undefeated regular season and 10 NCAA tournament victories. An heir apparent may someday emerge, but for now the Shockers appear irreplaceable.
12. CONFERENCE USA
They're sleeping on Tevonn and I'd argue even though Valpo Basketball just joined the Conference, I think we're already one of the League's strongest "brands" nationally.
In fairness, he did say "remaining" but in not mentioning us at all, he did, effectively dismiss our potential impact.
Respect is earned, and in the MVC we've earned nothing.
Good news is.....we'll have the chance.
A bold statement. He's saying that Loyola will be better then Illinois. It could be possible.
https://twitter.com/MattNorlander/status/928095960185692160
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on November 07, 2017, 01:03:50 PM
Respect is earned, and in the MVC we've earned nothing.
Good news is.....we'll have the chance.
Let's be honest. We didnt even know what we had until after destroying a couple of exhibition opponents. Now we think we're going to be good - possibly very good. That doesn't mean anyone else knows it, or even wants to know it. The last thing anyone in the MVC wants is for newcomer Valpo to assume the mantle from Creighton and WSU. No one is going to pay any attention to us until they have to.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on November 07, 2017, 01:03:50 PM
Respect is earned, and in the MVC we've earned nothing.
Good news is.....we'll have the chance.
Agreed respect is earned but brand is a whole different item. Valpo is already one of the best "brands" in the conference. Brand doesn't mean we're the best, it just means people recognize the program.
Quote from: wh on November 08, 2017, 01:09:58 PM
Let's be honest. We didnt even know what we had until after destroying a couple of exhibition opponents. Now we think we're going to be good - possibly very good. That doesn't mean anyone else knows it, or even wants to know it. The last thing anyone in the MVC wants is for newcomer Valpo to assume the mantle from Creighton and WSU.
We're going to need to go on a tourney run to be in the same conversation as Creighton and WSU. I'm not sure there is anyone in the conference who will turn into the perennial powerhouse they were. But they're are programs that have the potential to. In all reality WSU has only been a powerhouse till recently when the caught fire with Marshall and they had the financial backing from donors and the top of their admin to advance the program.
Quote from: wh on November 08, 2017, 01:09:58 PM
No one is going to pay any attention to us until they have to.
I guarantee you MVC fans will be watching us very closely this season. We're the new kids and the block and we don't want to be the weak link in the conference. We unfortunately will be getting compared to WSU and Murray State through out the season.
I definitely think we can surpass the 6th place media predictions.
https://twitter.com/FatherHarry1/status/928632242804490240
MVC – Fighting For Relevance
by Harry Schroeder
November 9, 2017
(St. Louis, MO) – When you lose two top 25 teams in four years, your national image takes a hit. Now the Missouri Valley Conference has the task of rebuilding the brand, growing its programs and becoming a significant part of the college basketball conversation once again.
Make no mistake, the nation's second oldest basketball conference is respected, and respectable, but the logo has taken a few hits over the past half decade. Even while major conference programs are facing scandal, indictments and firings, the Valley is faced with huge issues.
Can the Valley be a 'Multi-Bid League' Again?
......... (give the rest a click & read)
http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/mvc-fighting-for-relevance/
https://twitter.com/bradleyhoops/status/928371213134524416
Valparaiso a perfect fit for the Valley
By Dave Reynolds
Journal Star sports reporter
Posted Nov 8, 2017 at 3:00 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on November 09, 2017, 10:50:33 AM
https://twitter.com/bradleyhoops/status/928371213134524416
Valparaiso a perfect fit for the Valley
By Dave Reynolds
Journal Star sports reporter
Posted Nov 8, 2017 at 3:00 PM
I'm not sure anyone will be interested enough in reading the article to buy a monthly/annual subscription to the pjstar in order to access it.
How bout a copy/paste of the text?
Quote from: VU2014 on November 08, 2017, 01:47:54 PM
Agreed respect is earned but brand is a whole different item. Valpo is already one of the best "brands" in the conference. Brand doesn't mean we're the best, it just means people recognize the program.
Brand is a tricky concept to measure, but I got some interesting results looking at Google Trends. Below is a rating based on number of Google searches for a school's men's basketball team from within the US over the last 90 days. All school's values are relative to Valpo, which I gave a value of 1.000. So a score of .5000 would be half as popular as Valpo and a score of 2.0000 would be twice as popular as Valpo. Anyone over 1.000 was more popular than Valpo and anyone under 1.000 was less popular. Here's how we stacked up relative to the rest of the MVC
UNI - 1.5455
ISUb - 1.3636
MSU - 1.1600
SIU - 1.0000
Bradley - .9706
ISUr - .8621
LUC - .7500
Evansville - .6667
Drake - .6111
Here are the Chicago area schools - something to think about when considering how much coverage Valpo does/does not get from Chicago media.
Notre Dame - 23.8889
Northwestern - 11.0000
Illinois - 9.0000
DePaul - 2.5385
UIC - 1.1538
NIU - .8000
Loyola - .7500
Chicago State - .3611
And lastly some other random programs that I thought people might be interested to see:
Butler - 5.4000
Xavier - 4.1667
Dayton - 2.2857
SLU - 1.4444
Oakland - 1.0857
Murray State - .8333
Belmont - .6429
NKU - .3333
Quote from: wh on November 09, 2017, 11:42:26 AM
I'm not sure anyone will be interested enough in reading the article to buy a monthly/annual subscription to the pjstar in order to access it.
That's weird. The first time I opened the article it was free (open to the public view). Maybe they just changed it.
Valparaiso a perfect fit for the ValleyBy Dave Reynolds
Journal Star sports reporter
Posted Nov 8, 2017 at 3:00 PM
Valparaiso coach Matt Lottich chuckled when a question was posed in jest whether his team was up to replacing Wichita State, the national powerhouse program whose vacancy opened a spot in the Missouri Valley Conference for the Crusaders.
"That would be pretty daunting," Lottich said. "We're not going to replace Wichita State. But we fit what a Valley school is – we have a tough arena for (opponents) to play in (a record of 47-4 at home the last three years), we defend and we play the right way. We'll be a hard team to beat."
That was the consensus of every MVC coach queried about the men's basketball program at the small Lutheran-affiliated private university in northwest Indiana during last month's Valley media day in St. Louis.
"I don't think we could've found anybody better," said Evansville coach Marty Simmons. "The Missouri Valley hit a grand slam. They'll step in and compete right out of the gate."
Said Missouri State coach Paul Lusk, whose team lost at home to the Crusaders last year: "Valpo is a very good basketball program. It's a great addition for us."
Unfortunately for central Illinois fans, the player most responsible for Valpo's great success of late – Alec Peters of Washington – has moved on to the NBA.
Peters led the team to three consecutive Horizon League championships his last three seasons. The Crusaders went 82-22 and earned one NCAA tournament bid and a pair of NIT berths. Two years ago, in Peters' junior season, Valpo reached the NIT championship game, losing to George Washington.
But there was recent success prior to Peters as well.
From 1995-2013, Valparaiso earned seven NCAA bids and two NIT appearances along with 11 league crowns.
The highlight during that stretch, of course, was in 1998 when the 13th-seeded Crusaders reached the NCAA Sweet 16, capped by the iconic last-second 3-pointer by Bryce Drew to upset Ole Miss.
The Shot, as it's still called, is often replayed on NCAA promos as a classic example of Cinderella triumphing at The Ball.
"Valpo is not looking to come into our league as a middle-of-the-pack team," said MVC commissioner Doug Elgin. "They're looking to come in as a championship contender and win our league."
Considering all the firepower the Crusaders lost from last year's 24-9 NIT squad – aside from Peters' averages of 23 points and 10 rebounds, second-leading leader Shane Hammink, who contributed 15 points per game is also graduated – this might not be the year.
But don't tell Lottich that.
He returns his top defender, senior guard Tevonn Walker, who also averaged 11.9 points and 5.6 rebounds last season.
No other full-time starter is back, but several rotation guys are, including a pair of 7-footers who share the center spot, Jaume Sorolla and Derrick Smits.
A pair of Power 5 conference transfer guards – 6-6 Joe Burton from Oklahoma State and 6-2 Bakari Evelyn from Nebraska – figure to be valuable additions.
"You don't expect one person to replace Alec's numbers," Lottich said. "But collectively, we have guys who can contribute. I like our talent and the way everyone's buying into coaching. If we can defend, rebound, make free throws and take care of the basketball, we'll be in every game."
Aside from its basketball fit in the MVC, the Valpo-Valley marriage has much else in common.
Valparaiso, Ind., is just 51 miles east of Chicago, making it a perfect women's basketball travel partner for Loyola and a ready-made rivalry. Loyola was also a Horizon League member before joining the Valley in 2013.
"It's great for us having them in the league," said Loyola coach Porter Moser. "I saw first-hand what a close proximity Valley rivalry can be when I was at Illinois State."
Valpo, which also includes a law school within the university, is also a peer institution with Bradley, Loyola, Evansville and Drake, linking students among the schools. There is also a historical statewide connection with Indiana State and Evansville.
"Valpo fans are excited about being in the Valley," said Paul Oren, Valpo's beat writer for The Times of Northwest Indiana and a Valparaiso graduate. "There will be a lot more bragging rights than there was in the Horizon League."
So while losing Wichita State was a blow to the Missouri Valley Conference from a national perspective, by all accounts, the league couldn't have done better in choosing a new 10th member.
"When you sit with the Valley ADs and coaches, it's clear they have a passion for basketball and want to get better," said Valparaiso athletics director Mark LaBarbera. "That's a group you want to be with. I'm a firm believer that history is a good indicator of what people can achieve moving forward."
Quote from: VU2014 on November 09, 2017, 12:18:58 PM
Quote from: wh on November 09, 2017, 11:42:26 AM
I'm not sure anyone will be interested enough in reading the article to buy a monthly/annual subscription to the pjstar in order to access it.
That's weird. The first time I opened the article it was free (open to the public view). Maybe they just changed it.
Valparaiso a perfect fit for the Valley
By Dave Reynolds
Journal Star sports reporter
Posted Nov 8, 2017 at 3:00 PM
Valparaiso coach Matt Lottich chuckled when a question was posed in jest whether his team was up to replacing Wichita State, the national powerhouse program whose vacancy opened a spot in the Missouri Valley Conference for the Crusaders.
"That would be pretty daunting," Lottich said. "We're not going to replace Wichita State. But we fit what a Valley school is – we have a tough arena for (opponents) to play in (a record of 47-4 at home the last three years), we defend and we play the right way. We'll be a hard team to beat."
That was the consensus of every MVC coach queried about the men's basketball program at the small Lutheran-affiliated private university in northwest Indiana during last month's Valley media day in St. Louis.
"I don't think we could've found anybody better," said Evansville coach Marty Simmons. "The Missouri Valley hit a grand slam. They'll step in and compete right out of the gate."
Said Missouri State coach Paul Lusk, whose team lost at home to the Crusaders last year: "Valpo is a very good basketball program. It's a great addition for us."
Unfortunately for central Illinois fans, the player most responsible for Valpo's great success of late – Alec Peters of Washington – has moved on to the NBA.
Peters led the team to three consecutive Horizon League championships his last three seasons. The Crusaders went 82-22 and earned one NCAA tournament bid and a pair of NIT berths. Two years ago, in Peters' junior season, Valpo reached the NIT championship game, losing to George Washington.
But there was recent success prior to Peters as well.
From 1995-2013, Valparaiso earned seven NCAA bids and two NIT appearances along with 11 league crowns.
The highlight during that stretch, of course, was in 1998 when the 13th-seeded Crusaders reached the NCAA Sweet 16, capped by the iconic last-second 3-pointer by Bryce Drew to upset Ole Miss.
The Shot, as it's still called, is often replayed on NCAA promos as a classic example of Cinderella triumphing at The Ball.
"Valpo is not looking to come into our league as a middle-of-the-pack team," said MVC commissioner Doug Elgin. "They're looking to come in as a championship contender and win our league."
Considering all the firepower the Crusaders lost from last year's 24-9 NIT squad – aside from Peters' averages of 23 points and 10 rebounds, second-leading leader Shane Hammink, who contributed 15 points per game is also graduated – this might not be the year.
But don't tell Lottich that.
He returns his top defender, senior guard Tevonn Walker, who also averaged 11.9 points and 5.6 rebounds last season.
No other full-time starter is back, but several rotation guys are, including a pair of 7-footers who share the center spot, Jaume Sorolla and Derrick Smits.
A pair of Power 5 conference transfer guards – 6-6 Joe Burton from Oklahoma State and 6-2 Bakari Evelyn from Nebraska – figure to be valuable additions.
"You don't expect one person to replace Alec's numbers," Lottich said. "But collectively, we have guys who can contribute. I like our talent and the way everyone's buying into coaching. If we can defend, rebound, make free throws and take care of the basketball, we'll be in every game."
Aside from its basketball fit in the MVC, the Valpo-Valley marriage has much else in common.
Valparaiso, Ind., is just 51 miles east of Chicago, making it a perfect women's basketball travel partner for Loyola and a ready-made rivalry. Loyola was also a Horizon League member before joining the Valley in 2013.
"It's great for us having them in the league," said Loyola coach Porter Moser. "I saw first-hand what a close proximity Valley rivalry can be when I was at Illinois State."
Valpo, which also includes a law school within the university, is also a peer institution with Bradley, Loyola, Evansville and Drake, linking students among the schools. There is also a historical statewide connection with Indiana State and Evansville.
"Valpo fans are excited about being in the Valley," said Paul Oren, Valpo's beat writer for The Times of Northwest Indiana and a Valparaiso graduate. "There will be a lot more bragging rights than there was in the Horizon League."
So while losing Wichita State was a blow to the Missouri Valley Conference from a national perspective, by all accounts, the league couldn't have done better in choosing a new 10th member.
"When you sit with the Valley ADs and coaches, it's clear they have a passion for basketball and want to get better," said Valparaiso athletics director Mark LaBarbera. "That's a group you want to be with. I'm a firm believer that history is a good indicator of what people can achieve moving forward."
Doesn't that suggest that Milwaukee would be a dumpster fire?
Milwaukee's history is tough to gauge They've gone from terrible to good to very good to good back to terrible again Not sure what I'd expect of them as a new MVC member They feel like a Loyola add that could really pay off but would take a solid four years to bear fruit Plus the travel partner thing is messy I can't see Milwaukee getting an invite unless the MVC explores a 14 or 16 team model that includes one of UIC or Green Bay or Oakland gets added to be our travel partner That last quote about history is exactly why this is a good fit for us and exactly why Murray State is an ideal expansion candidate the question is where and who is that worthy 12th team to tie it all together?
Quote from: VU2014 on November 08, 2017, 01:47:54 PMthey had the financial backing from donors and the top of their admin to advance the program.
Something majorly important to success for the athletic program which in turn breeds success and notoriety for the school. Unfortunately, at times, it seems, Valpo has not totally embraced the connection between the two.
The good years you speak of at UWM were mostly the cheating years of Bruce Pearl......? Of course they were good during that era.
Excellent point Yet another reason to just say no We've got enough Panthers to worry about in this league with UNI anyway
Quote from: oklahomamick on November 09, 2017, 01:49:19 PM
The good years you speak of at UWM were mostly the cheating years of Bruce Pearl......? Of course they were good during that era.
Pearl, BTW, is under pressure from the Auburn administration to cooperate with an internal investigation related to the FBI probe or lose his job.
Hmmm maybe all that pressure and turnoil can help Indiana State score a big early season win against a Power 5 team
Quote from: bbtds on November 09, 2017, 01:47:27 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on November 08, 2017, 01:47:54 PMthey had the financial backing from donors and the top of their admin to advance the program.
Something majorly important to success for the athletic program which in turn breeds success and notoriety for the school. Unfortunately, at times, it seems, Valpo has not totally embraced the connection between the two.
Sometimes, the donors are on the level of king-makers with backing that dwarfs the administration's own and an agenda that may not match. At that point, the administration has the choice to not trip in getting the hell out of the way or to risk losing it by specifying conditions.
Yeah. it comes down to principles.
BTW, Pitino is sinking in the quicksand of the FBI investigation.
and it looks like Bruce Pearl may be caught up in that same quicksand. Over the years I don't really think that Pearl has changed how he operates his program.
Wasn't he caught up in some questionable behavior before he ended up at Auburn?
Quote from: valpo64 on November 09, 2017, 06:00:27 PM
and it looks like Bruce Pearl may be caught up in that same quicksand. Over the years I don't really think that Pearl has changed how he operates his program.
Wasn't he caught up in some questionable behavior before he ended up at Auburn?
Yep he was fired from Tennessee for recruiting violations and then denying the violations and later getting caught lying.
Auburn's program is in chaos right now. I believe they are sitting to high profile players and they gave up 100(!) points in a exhibition game loss to a D2 school. I don't know how Pearl walks away with his job by the end of the year. He's under both FBI and NCAA investigation right now (but not like the NCAA investigation actually lead to anything unless your a mid-major).
Unless he goes to jail, he will retire with approximately a couple of a million. Not great, but not bad. Damn, I wish I could be at that [financial] level
Too little time. Too much to see and experience.
http://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/video/javon-freeman-soars-sick-dunk (http://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/video/javon-freeman-soars-sick-dunk)
Hadn't seen this dunk until tonight!!! Javon has been cleared for liftoff...
https://twitter.com/FatherHarry1/status/928979700080312320
Missouri Valley Conference Recruiting Splash
By Harry Schroeder
November 10, 2017
(St. Louis, MO) – The Missouri Valley Conference will be just fine thank you. That is if Wednesday's national signing day is any indication. No fewer than seven players have been tabbed as impact players by the ratings services from the Valley's incoming freshmen class.
There are numerous players that will pass the 'airport test' and of the nine teams reporting signings, Drake reported the most National Letters of Intent with five.
........
http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/missouri-valley-conference-recruiting-splash/
Indiana State is beating Indiana right now by 30 in bloomington. Wow. I knew IU wouldn't be good this year but they absolutely laid an egg on opening night... credit to ISUb's offense for lighting up IU.
Quote from: VU2014 on November 10, 2017, 08:03:32 PM
Indiana State is beating Indiana right now by 30 in bloomington. Wow. I knew IU wouldn't be good this year but they absolutely laid an egg on opening night... credit to ISUb's offense for lighting up IU.
Indeed. Other than UNI losing to NC by 17 (not a bad showing!), The Missouri Valley went undefeated tonight with SIU beating Winthrop, Evansville beating Arkansas St, Missouri St beating Western Kentucky and Loyola over Wright State. Nice start!!
Come on guys, we need to get used to saying UNI. This isn't Milwaukee fans wanting to get away from UWM, but simply the name of the school.
Quote from: valpotx on November 10, 2017, 09:49:29 PM
Come on guys, we need to get used to saying UNI. This isn't Milwaukee fans wanting to get away from UWM, but simply the name of the school.
Fixed it! Anything else?
I'm watching the Illinois State vs FCGU game and damn Bruninga looks like a player. less then half way through 2nd half and he has 14pts (3pt: 4-6) coming off the bench...
Illinois State is going to be a good team this year and likely one of the top offensive teams in the conference. They looked good today shorthanded. FCGU won 98-87. Keyshawn Evans and Phil Fayne looked really good. They're freshman Bruninga looked strong offensively but didn't look like world beater on the defensive end (fouled out).
They're an athletic bunch. But they were really shorthanded today. They were down to 6 players by the end of the game. They're potential star freshman player Elijah Clarance (from Sweden) is injured.
They lost 4 of 5 starters from last year. That team is still very strong. They lost to a very good FGCU team.
I don't know how I missed this on the thread from ML2. Some interesting data from Google search.
Valpo Basketball holds it own pretty well for being a smaller private school when stacking it up to much larger public schools in terms the google searches.
The one school that I found interesting was Butler's 5.4000. Butler has obviously been on an incredible run since 2010 and thats apparently when their popularity skyrocketed due to the Finals appearances. I was recently talking to my uncle who is a Butler grad from back in the 80s and he mentioned how back when he went to school they hardly ever sold out Hinkle and he mention how they only reached this level of popularity till after the tourney runs when a bunch of casuals or bandwagoners hopped on. Their attendance really jumped up the last 6-7 years apparently.
It makes you wonder what affect another Sweet 16 type tourney run could do for Valpo Basketball in terms of popularity these days.
QuoteBrand is a tricky concept to measure, but I got some interesting results looking at Google Trends. Below is a rating based on number of Google searches for a school's men's basketball team from within the US over the last 90 days. All school's values are relative to Valpo, which I gave a value of 1.000. So a score of .5000 would be half as popular as Valpo and a score of 2.0000 would be twice as popular as Valpo. Anyone over 1.000 was more popular than Valpo and anyone under 1.000 was less popular. Here's how we stacked up relative to the rest of the MVC
UNI - 1.5455
ISUb - 1.3636
MSU - 1.1600
SIU - 1.0000
Bradley - .9706
ISUr - .8621
LUC - .7500
Evansville - .6667
Drake - .6111
Here are the Chicago area schools - something to think about when considering how much coverage Valpo does/does not get from Chicago media.
Notre Dame - 23.8889
Northwestern - 11.0000
Illinois - 9.0000
DePaul - 2.5385
UIC - 1.1538
NIU - .8000
Loyola - .7500
Chicago State - .3611
And lastly some other random programs that I thought people might be interested to see:
Butler - 5.4000
Xavier - 4.1667
Dayton - 2.2857
SLU - 1.4444
Oakland - 1.0857
Murray State - .8333
Belmont - .6429
NKU - .3333
Bruninga would have been a great add and help in our 3 point shooting in which I think is our downfall. Having some 3 point shooters would stretch the floor and let our athletic swing men get to the hoop.
I trust the coaching staff in the guys they brought in and the guys they did not.....Can't wait to play some Varsity teams. Here we go!
Quote from: oklahomamick on November 12, 2017, 02:58:15 PM
Bruninga would have been a great add and help in our 3 point shooting in which I think is our downfall. Having some 3 point shooters would stretch the floor and let our athletic swing men get to the hoop.
I trust the coaching staff in the guys they brought in and the guys they did not.....Can't wait to play some Varsity teams. Here we go!
I think we have a handful who are good 3pt shooters and then a group of not so great shooters.
Bakari - I don't know if he's a knockdown shooter but we've heard he can make them if you leave him open
Burton - a very strong shooter. Todd mention that he could be over 45% 3pt shooter which is just ridiculously good for a guy with his size
Tevonn - we've heard he worked real hard on his 3pt shooting this offseason & we've seen mixed results so far. He might be more of streaky 3pt threat
Max - not a guy you want shooting the ball but he's a smart player that has very good shot selection
Micah - Honestly who knows. He shot below 30% last year but looked great in the first game. He needs to be consistent shooter this season. That was one of Paul's O/U's will Micah shoot over 33.33%? IDK. He's 2 for 6 so far this season.
Kiser - He was 1 for 9 from behind the arc last season
Golder - was a pretty good 3pt shooter in JUCO last year and has is 2-for-2 in 3pt attempts on Friday
McMillan - surprisingly a good 3pt shooter for a guy his size and position. He drained two 3s in one of the exhibition games and had really good form.
Linssen - has a nice mid-range game but I don't if he has 3pt range
Hazen - he can make 3s but I'm not sure that is one of his strengths yet. I saw a few of his games in HS and I didn't like the look of his 3pt jump shot then but take my opinion with a grain of salt.
Smits - Surprisingly he has a nice looking jump shot for a guy who 7-2. I've seen him make 3s during shoot-arounds before games. I'm not sure the coaches trust his 3pt shot enough to incorporate it into the offense. Dream scenario is if he follows the same development path as former Green Bay player Alec Brown in college.
Sorolla - not his game.
Fazekas (redshirt) - an elite shooter. I've seen him just drain 3s. I'm excited for Fazekas next season. I believe he's still recovering from the injury this summer so no contact for him still but the jumper looks great.
Javon Freeman-Liberty - he's more of slasher but apparently he made strides with his 3pt shot this summer.
Bruninga has a quick quick release similar to AP. That's relatively difficult to guard, we are going to have our hand full with him on the offensive end.
He looked quite lost on defense though against FGCU this weekend. Illinois State has some skilled players and we will have difficulty with them this year. Their PF is a heck of an athlete and their starting PG can shoot the 3-ball. Athletic team.
A strong first weekend for the Valley!
http://barttorvik.com/trankslice.php?year=2018&conyes=1
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/930101153043501057
I didn't see the HL or the SL?
Horizon League #18 Summit League #25 I'd also like to point out for Belmont's smug administration that thinks they're too good for the MVC that their precious OVC sits at #24 BEHIND the conference they left (The ASun which checks in at #23)
Let's be fair here... I don't think Belmont has ever posited that they or the OVC are "too good" for the MVC. I think they've specifically expressed something that Valpo used to do back in the late 90s/early 00s when we remained tied at the hip with the Mid-Con: remaining in the OVC is their best and easiest route to consistent tournament bids.
If anything, they're saying they're *too good* for the rest of their own conference.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on November 13, 2017, 12:56:35 PM
Let's be fair here... I don't think Belmont has ever posited that they or the OVC are "too good" for the MVC. I think they've specifically expressed something that Valpo used to do back in the late 90s/early 00s when we remained tied at the hip with the Mid-Con: remaining in the OVC is their best and easiest route to consistent tournament bids.
If anything, they're saying they're *too good* for the rest of their own conference.
I agree with bigmosmithfan1 on this one. It's the cowards path, imo, but they have pretty much made it clear that they prefer beating up a weak conference to get automatic bids. Coach Byrd has pretty much stated he think the MVC is no longer at 2-bid league (which I disagree with. MVC can be during strong years, imo). The OVC is already not great but if they potentially lose Murray State to the MVC then the OVC is even worse. I absolutely hate their strategy.
They ARE too good for the OVC which is why they need to move up And that excuse is such a coward's way to run a program I just can't respect that line of thinking Fewer but higher quality shots at the tournament with the occasional at Large and a consistent ability to get one or more NIT home games will do much more for your program than praying you win three games in March every year and don't run into a hot team that's already seen you twice and knows your game plan
Saluki fan here will be watching you guys on ESPN3 tonight . I know it's a weaker opponent, but put on a good show!!
Quote from: underdawg on November 13, 2017, 04:28:38 PM
Saluki fan here will be watching you guys on ESPN3 tonight . I know it's a weaker opponent, but put on a good show!!
Thanks, underdawg. I have been a fan of your program from the moment I watched what became my favorite coaching rant of all time. Barry broke every cultural norm in snowflake heaven and made his players uncomfortable in their safe place, yet lived to tell about it. I still can't believe the campus Milquetoasts didn't run him out of town.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQKbLsoCt28
Good luck this year to the Salukis!
Barry Hinson, one of my favorite Oklahomans......
https://www.facebook.com/St-Louis-Christian-Academy-106386922885183/
Signing pics from yesterday's inking of 6-9 220 Amadou Fall of St. Louis Christian Prep
Quote from: underdawg on November 15, 2017, 12:48:18 PM
https://www.facebook.com/St-Louis-Christian-Academy-106386922885183/
Signing pics from yesterday's inking of 6-9 220 Amadou Fall of St. Louis Christian Prep
St Louis Christian Academy which happens to be fairly close to Scottrade Center. SLCA is at Compton & Lafayette, which is very close to MVC headquarters also. Many people in the Lou wouldn't set foot in that area but it really is an area that has become gentrified and bloosoming into a progressive neighborhood.
Quote from: bbtds on November 15, 2017, 01:10:02 PM
Quote from: underdawg on November 15, 2017, 12:48:18 PM
https://www.facebook.com/St-Louis-Christian-Academy-106386922885183/
Signing pics from yesterday's inking of 6-9 220 Amadou Fall of St. Louis Christian Prep
St Louis Christian Academy which happens to be fairly close to Scottrade Center. SLCA is at Compton & Lafayette, which is very close to MVC headquarters also. Many people in the Lou wouldn't set foot in that area but it really is an area that has become gentrified and bloosoming into a progressive neighborhood.
Who is this guy and who did he sign with?
Amadou Fall and he signed with SIU The person who posted that link is a Saluki fan
This is ... impact... their RPI when it's all said and done.
SPRINGFIELD, Mo. (AP) J.T. Miller scored 16 points, Alize Johnson had 10 points, 14 rebounds and five assists, and Missouri State beat Southern 86-58 on Wednesday night.
The Bears are 35-1 in home openers in their Division I era, including all 10 at JQH Arena.
Jarrid Rhodes added 13 points for Missouri State (2-0) and Ryan Kreklow had 11.
Missouri State opened the game with a 9-0 run and extended it to 49-26 at halftime after shooting 53 percent. The Bears finished at 45 percent, including 9 of 24 from distance.
Brendon Ganaway scored 11 points for Southern (0-3), which has lost three games by a total of 84 points. Eddie Reese added 10.
The Jaguars shot just 27 percent in the first half, finished at 30 and turned it over 16 times.
From MVC fans.com:
Re: MVC Games 11/13-11/16
Postby valleyclimber » November 15th, 2017, 10:53 pm
3-0 tonight for Valley teams. Congrats out to MSU (28 point smackdown win), Valpo (25 point curbstomp win on the road), and to UNI for putting up another W.
So that's 16-2 (11-2 vs. D1) out of the gates for the MVC. Smoking hot start for the conference...
Tomorrow's games will be interesting with the Redbirds tipping off the day (10:30 a.m.) against the South Carolina Gamecocks who went to the Final Four last season, and the Sycamores go against Auburn. Go get 'em ISUs.
Aces and Ramblers are also both on tap tomorrow with winnable games. Looking forward to the all the hoops across the Valley...oooo yeah.
KEEP IT ROCKIN' MVC!! :Cheers:
Nice to see Valpo finally getting some mentions on the MVCfans.com. They have basically ignored us at the start of the season, probably because we were playing non-D1 teams. Would certainly help if we had more posters making the crossover.
It will take some adjustment after being in a league with a fan forum that was nearly stagnant. MVCFans is whole different animal.
Quote from: wh on November 16, 2017, 04:44:02 AM
From MVC fans.com:
Re: MVC Games 11/13-11/16
Postby valleyclimber » November 15th, 2017, 10:53 pm
3-0 tonight for Valley teams. Congrats out to MSU (28 point smackdown win), Valpo (25 point curbstomp win on the road), and to UNI for putting up another W.
So that's 16-2 (11-2 vs. D1) out of the gates for the MVC. Smoking hot start for the conference...
Tomorrow's games will be interesting with the Redbirds tipping off the day (10:30 a.m.) against the South Carolina Gamecocks who went to the Final Four last season, and the Sycamores go against Auburn. Go get 'em ISUs.
Aces and Ramblers are also both on tap tomorrow with winnable games. Looking forward to the all the hoops across the Valley...oooo yeah.
KEEP IT ROCKIN' MVC!! :Cheers:
First time I've heard the expression "curbstomp."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiRAwIYstuE
Now I know. ;)
Bradley is currently beating a very good Vermont team.
https://twitter.com/DaveReynolds2/status/931565896891543552
You can watch Ill. St versus Boise St and Lexus, live on ESPN3 (12:30) Lexus hit a 3 and the announcer said that was a good thing as he is only shooting 20% so far this season.
Brutal day for the conference Bradley loses a heartbreaker and Illinois State is getting run off the floor hopefully Indiana State can salvage some pride for the MVC against Old Dominion and Drake can almost redeem the day singlehandedly if they can bring the conference another P5 victory by beating Wake Forest
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 17, 2017, 12:44:40 PMDrake can almost redeem the day singlehandedly if they can bring the conference another P5 victory by beating Wake Forest
I will be at a Concordia Girls high school game tonight so I guess the Wake Forest gear will remain in the closet. Glad no other MVC teams play Wake because I don't know if I can root against the Demon Deacons. As an undergrad my daughter did a kinesiology study on the Wake BB team and would go running with a group of people that would often include Skip Prosser whom she got to know quite well. She was very upset when he passed away shortly after one such run. I really enjoyed her time at WF. They were very good in basketball and the football team also went to the Orange Bowl when she was there. A very good school.
Indiana State gets another big transfer. Wow. Indiana State has a pretty talented backcourt next season.
https://twitter.com/cwill_20/status/932401103190228992
Great get but given ISUb's early season performance I'd say nothing is guaranteed with them. They'll be talented though.
https://twitter.com/EnthusiAdams/status/932436261461266432
https://twitter.com/kenpomeroy/status/932442943654207488
https://twitter.com/kenpomeroy/status/932443266053582849
3 MVC schools in the top 100 7 in the top 130 8 in the top 150 and all 10 MVC schools are in the KenPom top 200 right now. Not too shabby for a conference many had pronounced dead with the departure of Wichita State and whose highest ranked team in the metric is 90. May we all continue to climb higher and prove how badly underestimated this conference was. Go MVC!
For reference the MVC's lowest ranked team is still rated higher than HALF THE HORIZON LEAGUE As well as 2 A10 members 2AAC members 1MWC school and 1P5 school..
can someone post the kenpon ranking of all the mvc teams?
Quote from: oklahomamick on November 20, 2017, 11:06:30 AM
can someone post the kenpon ranking of all the mvc teams?
Nothing fancy but here it is:
Illinois St - 91
Loyola - 92
Valpo - 100
Missouri St - 105
Northern Iowa - 115
Bradley - 122
Southern Illinois - 127
Evansville - 146
Indiana St - 184
Drake - 199
That chart is a thing of beauty right there Hope we can keep it up! Go MVC!
So Missouri State loses to Georgia Southern yesterday. And now trails Manhattan at halftime. Time to start questioning what seemed to be the consensus favorite to win the league. They simply cannot shoot it from outside, 27% from 3 so far. Going to be tough to consistently win games when your opponents can pack it in and dare you to hit jump shots.
Are they missing any key players or are there injuries in the equation?
FWIW, MVC is now #9 in Kenpom conference rankings - just ahead of Atlantic 10.
Top of the Atlantic 10 is better, but the middle and bottom sections of the MVC are much stronger.
Quote from: VULB#62 on November 21, 2017, 11:26:28 AM
Are they missing any key players or are there injuries in the equation?
They escaped with a 69-65 win. It does not seem as if they are missing anyone through initial research.
Happy we left the HL? :-X
11/21
11 Missouri Valley
14 Mid-American
18 Ohio Valley
19 Summit League
28 HORIZON LEAGUE
Individual HL Team RPI's
46 Oakland
113 Milwaukee
138 Northern Kentucky
239 Cleveland State
__________________
:o :o :o :o :o
305 Detroit Mercy
312 Wright State
314 UIC
326 Youngstown State
335 IUPUI
337 Green Bay
Wow, the HL is terrible.
Citing RPI 10% of the way into the season is silly, considering it's a purely mathematical formula with a very small sample size.
true, lets see how it plays out.
However I think the point I'm trying to make will also be obvious in March, and you know my point. :thumbsup:
My understanding is that the Horizon League will be better than ever this year, and Valpo was leaving because we would no longer be top dog, with Oakland in the conference! Source: HL fan boards
Quote from: valpotx on November 21, 2017, 04:20:19 PM
My understanding is that the Horizon League will be better than ever this year, and Valpo was leaving because we would no longer be top dog, with Oakland in the conference! Source: HL fan boards
Don't you feel a little silly taking shots at them? Who cares what they say, they have no say on our current or future.
I'm moving on and looking inward. Afterall, it's clear this forum needs more "sky is falling" guys like me! (Maybe not).
Glad to have found the forum, great place to sound off and get insight. You guys are a fun part of my day....even if I'm not the most optimistic poster.
No, not at all, but thank you for asking ;). I still hate Oral Roberts, due to always playing and losing to them in baseball. I can make fun of our past opponents all I want, while still looking forward, and being extremely happy about our conference situation. Also, Buck Futler and Petros sucks :)
Evansville takes down Fresno State of the MWC 59-57 to run their record to 5-0.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 21, 2017, 09:37:50 PM
Evansville takes down Fresno State of the MWC 59-57 to run their record to 5-0.
How 'bout the privates pulling their weight? ;)
Although there appears to be a fairly significant difference in strength of schedule in favor of the publics right now I do find it amusing that every private school is ahead of all public schools in this conference after all the complaints that the private schools aren't competitive enough. Even more amusing is that one of the leading voices beating the drum against the private schools was Sycamores beat writer Todd Aaron Golden (the same man who had Valpo 9th and Illinois State 6th in his preseason poll) whose Sycamores currently bring up the rear in the MVC.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 21, 2017, 10:33:43 PM
Although there appears to be a fairly significant difference in strength of schedule in favor of the publics right now I do find it amusing that every private school is ahead of all public schools in this conference after all the complaints that the private schools aren't competitive enough. Even more amusing is that one of the leading voices beating the drum against the private schools was Sycamores beat writer Todd Aaron Golden (the same man who had Valpo 9th and Illinois State 6th in his preseason poll) whose Sycamores currently bring up the rear in the MVC.
Indeed on the schedule strength, but I couldn't resist the partisan jab because the MVC has got me in a good mood.
Aces just miss winning the Cancun challenge as they were sunk by a late 3 by LaTech 63-61. But UNI scores a big victory over AAC foe
SMU 61-58. Next up: the NC State Wolfpack who beat#2 ranked Arizona today. If they win that they'll get the Villanova-Tennessee winner. Atlantis has been weird this year. Two of the three ranked teams lose and the third got pushed nearly to the limit by Western Kentucky.
https://twitter.com/ValleyHoops/status/933727594184347648
https://twitter.com/ValleyHoops/status/933725794236592135
https://twitter.com/TribStarTodd/status/933881535719239682
Holy cow. What a great quote.
This speaks so well to top-to-bottom conference depth. All MVC teams have to keep winning in the OOC phase. Then we kill each other in conference play, but that still will pump up everyone's RPI, right?
BTW, where is the HL?
The MVC Hoops preseason is shaping up nicely. The MVC will be competitive each night and at every location. Should be a fun season to watch.
My prediction is that the first team to 13 wins will win the MVC regular season. Valpo will be that team!
UNI is keeping it close with Villanova
https://twitter.com/UNImbb/status/934115427545993216
Go Panthers!
https://twitter.com/MVCsports/status/934129790000525314
Panthers kept it close, but couldn't close the gap. I didn't see the game but the box score shows that the Panthers didn't get to the line once! :o
Quote from: Valpower on November 24, 2017, 12:56:39 PM
Panthers kept it close, but couldn't close the gap. I didn't see the game but the box score shows that the Panthers didn't get to the line once! :o
I watched the game. Villanova is one of the best teams in the nation at not fouling their opponents on defense (18th in the nation going into the game), so I didn't think it was an issue of refs missing foul calls. Neither team shot well from deep, Villanova did a better job taking care of the ball and getting turnovers. UNI's passing was sporadic at best. McCloud spent too much time dribbling throughout the shot clock in my opinion.
Quote from: VU2014 on November 23, 2017, 08:19:10 PM
https://twitter.com/TribStarTodd/status/933881535719239682
Thanks to the Valpo and Loyola wins the MVC has moved up to 5th.
http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2018/conferencerpi
Quote from: wh on November 24, 2017, 10:26:26 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on November 23, 2017, 08:19:10 PM
[tweet]933881535719239682[/tweet]
Thanks to the Valpo and Loyola wins the MVC has moved up to 5th.
http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2018/conferencerpi (http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2018/conferencerpi)
Horizon League barely hanging on at 30th out of 32. ::)
;D
https://twitter.com/happeninghoops/status/934280166079164416
Quote from: SanityLost17 on November 06, 2017, 09:39:06 AMI am pleased to see we have taken care of business early, but I am just not sure it means anything yet. I would like to see how we do in our 1st 3 true D1 regular season games before over analyzing anything.
What do you think now after beating Kent?
Quote from: historyman on November 24, 2017, 11:35:10 PM
Quote from: SanityLost17 on November 06, 2017, 09:39:06 AMI am pleased to see we have taken care of business early, but I am just not sure it means anything yet. I would like to see how we do in our 1st 3 true D1 regular season games before over analyzing anything.
What do you think now after beating Kent?
Still hard to tell how good this team is but they've exceeded my expectations so far. The games against Samford & Kent State have been closer then the score indicates. They've been somewhat tough tests & have given this team an opportunity to learn how to win games. Smart scheduling by the Coaching Staff. The depth really is the strength of the team. When guys are struggling we've had bench guys step up the last 2 games.
Fun Matchup Tomorrow: SIU vs potential future MVC team Murray State. Should be a good game. It's a big game for Murray because they'll be under the microscope. They're trying to put their best foot forward. I'd say Murray is the better team but that SIU team is no slouch.
Saturday is a day full of interesting midmajor matchups across the MVC:
Ball State @ Indiana State Let's see if the Sycamores can right the ship against an in-state foe.
Georgia Southern @ Bradley Was the Eagles victory over Missouri State an anomaly or are they for real? Can the Braves keep it rolling after a successful 2-1 trip to the Bahamas?
The Crusaders and Ramblers look to stay perfect in Savannah as they take on UNC-Wilmington and Kent State respectively.
SIU @ Murray State This may be my favorite MVC matchup of the day as SIU will be tested on the road by a very hungry Racers team I expect a very close game here
Charleston Southern @ Illinois State game 2 of a 2 game lull in an otherwise brutally tough nonconference schedule. Hopefully the Redbirds can avoid the trap before the level of competition ratchets up again.
Lookslike a day full of tough but winnable matchups. Hope all MVC teams are ready for their opponents. Go MVC!
Another good conference win - Bradley just beat Georgia Southern 62-57 to go 6-1. GSU (5-2) had beaten Missouri State earlier.
Quote from: wh on November 25, 2017, 03:33:30 PM
Another good conference win - Bradley just beat Georgia Southern 62-57 to go 6-1. GSU (5-2) had beaten Missouri State earlier.
I caught part of the game. Bradley was underrated coming into the season. They have a lot of experience on that team. Koch Bar their Center is going to be a handful to deal with. He's only sophomore and he's developing into a stud. He has a really high ceiling. He brought down 13 rebounds today.
Well that's embarrassing. This erases a lot of goodwill they built up in Myrtle Beach...
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game?gameId=400989619
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 25, 2017, 10:08:24 PM
Well that's embarrassing. This erases a lot of goodwill they built up in Myrtle Beach...
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game?gameId=400989619
Yikes... that is a brutal loss
https://twitter.com/Pg_Benson/status/934636037678170113
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 25, 2017, 10:08:24 PM
Well that's embarrassing. This erases a lot of goodwill they built up in Myrtle Beach...
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game?gameId=400989619
I think it shows that MVC teams have to show up every game and when they have some players with bad games or at least bad shooting games then other players must step up and 7-0 Valpo has done just that. BTW, who is Ja-ma Sore-ella? Could he have screwed up a Spaniard's name any worse?
The commercial for Crystal Burger did go well, though.............What? That wasn't a commercial for Crystal Burger?
Quote from: bbtds on November 26, 2017, 05:49:39 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 25, 2017, 10:08:24 PM
Well that's embarrassing. This erases a lot of goodwill they built up in Myrtle Beach...
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game?gameId=400989619
I think it shows that MVC teams have to show up every game and when they have some players with bad games or at least bad shooting games then other players must step up and 7-0 Valpo has done just that. BTW, who is Ja-ma Sore-ella? Could he have screwed up a Spaniard's name any worse?
The commercial for Crystal Burger did go well, though.............What? That wasn't a commercial for Crystal Burger?
You make a good point about players having off games, that's what may get a lot of teams. Maybe it bites us less with this depth. Bakari/Burton/Golder/Walker can all go for 30 pts.
I'm a little nervous with the lack of a go-to this early with this young team. But that's got to develop. On last years team if Alec or SHANE/Tevonn were off we were much more suspect.
It's never advantageous to lose an Alec or Hammink, but to gain a Bakari/Burton/Golder makes us more versatile when combined with Hazen/McMillan/Linssen.
If we are to fight for the MVC title we will do it by wearing down our opponent through our depth. Clearly our shooting is just as sporadic as last year. Man it would be amazing if Fazekas was eligible!!!
To come away 2-0 was better than expected, but maybe I need to recalibrate my expectations. Nice job Valpo! Now pass like a team and shoot better 😜😊🤔
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 25, 2017, 10:08:24 PM
Well that's embarrassing. This erases a lot of goodwill they built up in Myrtle Beach...
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game?gameId=400989619
From the stat line it looks like Clarance is back from injury but limited playing only 3 minutes, but remember that 7' starting center Ndiaye is still out till at least mid December. This makes their recent short handed performances even more impressive because they may not be at full strength until the conference portion of the season.
Quote from: FWalum on November 26, 2017, 09:14:47 AMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on November 25, 2017, 10:08:24 PMWell that's embarrassing. This erases a lot of goodwill they built up in Myrtle Beach... http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game?gameId=400989619
From the stat line it looks like Clarance is back from injury but limited playing only 3 minutes, but remember that 7' starting center Ndiaye is still out till at least mid December. This makes their recent short handed performances even more impressive because they may not be at full strength until the conference portion of the season.
Your point is well-taken but shorthanded or not you can't take a loss to Charleston Southern,especially on your home floor. You just can't. Not as a mid-major that has to fight for everything anyway.
https://twitter.com/fatherharry1/status/935159351265890306
'Must Win Week' in the Valley
by Harry Schroeder November 27, 2017
(St. Louis, MO) – The Missouri Valley Conference is off to an historic start to the season. The Valley has won over 74% of its games (46-16), with Valparaiso (7-0), Loyola (7-0), Bradley (6-1) and Drake (4-1) starting the season with historic success.
........ http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/a-must-win-week-in-the-valley/
https://twitter.com/MrMattCraig/status/935558337692880897
https://twitter.com/JCTSports/status/935668998691282945
MSU threatening to snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory in their match against Colorado State. They had a huge halftime lead.
Boise state is up 56-27 on Loyola. Lexus has 9 so far
Yeah, Boise State is taking Loyola to the woodshed, with Lexus leading the way.
Most beat Cost 77-67, but the Ramblers are being wrecked...in the town of blue smurf turf.
did I mention that Valpo is 8-0?
I miss Lexus. He was always my favorite player. I am glad he is in a good situation at Boise. I wonder how he would fit into our lineup had he stayed?
It is too bad for the MVC that they didn't pick Valpo over Loyola several years back. Both Valpo and Illinois State were the "last team out" each of the last 2 years for an at large bid. If Valpo was in instead of Loyola both probably would have had just enough of an RPI boost to get that very last spot. That said, Loyola has really stepped up their game since coming over, so that is good.
I teach at a high school in Tulsa that has a student who signed a letter of intent to play basketball with Boise St next year. I asked him about his official visit and how he liked the team. He said his favorite player was Lexus Williams.
I still have a hard time thinking of Loyola as good due to them being pretty bad for so long. Interested to see how we do against them this year.
5 Missouri Valley Conference
12 Western Athletic Conference
14 Summit League
15 Mid-American Conference
17 Ohio Valley Conference
29 HORIZON LEAGUE
Individual HL Team RPI's
90 Milwaukee
107 NKU
151 Oakland
229 Detroit Mercy
235 Wright State
290 IUPUI
314 UIC
317 Green Bay
334 Cleveland State
348 Youngstown State
Have to be happy with the move based on the above numbers. However, If we were in the HL I think it would be ours for the taking. Even though this is a rebuilding year for us and Oakland has a lot of guys back, I think we would win our 6th out 7th conference title back in the HL.
Quote from: oklahomamick on November 29, 2017, 12:18:06 PM
29 HORIZON LEAGUE
Individual HL Team RPI's
90 Milwaukee
107 NKU
151 Oakland
229 Detroit Mercy
235 Wright State
290 IUPUI
314 UIC
317 Green Bay
334 Cleveland State
348 Youngstown State
Have to be happy with the move based on the above numbers. If we were in the HL I think it would be our if the taking. Even though this is a rebuilding year for us and Oakland has a lot of guys back, I think we would win our 6th out 7th conference title back in the HL.
(https://i.giphy.com/media/acttIrNAHaoco/giphy.webp)
I think the Horizon's RPI will go up over what it's at right now.... But man, an expected RPI of 26 is dreadful, especially after LeCrones comments about trying to get a team below the 9 seed line.
Drake laid an egg against a Omaha (1-7) team. MVC teams shouldn't lose to terrible teams like that.
Drake is MVCINO
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UNI with a solid win over UNLV. That is going to be an exciting 2 games for us/them each year.
SIU may be back to full strength with 6-5 starting PG Marcus Bartley and starter 6-8 PF Thik Bol who was second in blocks in MVC last year coming back by the last week in December. As it is Bol's replacement 6-7 Jonathan Wiley is averaging 7.4 rebounds per game--so I don't know how you take him out and new starting Center 6-10 240 Kavion Pippen is averaging 12.2 ppg/7.8 rpg and 2.2 blocks per game.
You guys looked good in the games I have been able to watch-- if you can rebound with Purdue, you'll give them a game--they are not a tremendous Offensive team. By the way, didn't know if you guys realized Purdue's head coach Matt Painter was SIU's about 13 years ago
Quote from: underdawg on November 30, 2017, 01:49:57 PMSIU may be back to full strength with 6-5 starting PG Marcus Bartley and starter 6-8 PF Thik Bol who was second in blocks in MVC last year coming back by the last week in December. As it is Bol's replacement 6-7 Jonathan Wiley is averaging 7.4 rebounds per game--so I don't know how you take him out and new starting Center 6-10 240 Kavion Pippen is averaging 12.2 ppg/7.8 rpg and 2.2 blocks per game.
Way too early for me to worry about our games on Jan 6 and Feb 3. Shorter term it looks like it might be up to SIU to earn a draw in the MVC/MWC challenge. Are you healthy enough to get that done?
4,546 is a disappointment?
https://twitter.com/Brett_Crawford/status/936092813216878592
I'd like to point out that their ticket prices were only $5 for a UNI vs UNLV game is a great deal. When is the last time Valpo's ticket prices were that low? And how much would reducing prices increase Valpo's attendance? I believe Valpo charged $12 for a bleacher ticket to a non-D1 opponent.
https://twitter.com/benbrustkern/status/936098499392876544
4500 is a massive disappointment.
Wednesday night home games are the worst.
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Quote from: VU2014 on November 30, 2017, 03:55:55 PMI'd like to point out that their ticket prices were only $5 for a UNI vs UNLV game is a great deal. When is the last time Valpo's ticket prices were that low? And how much would reducing prices increase Valpo's attendance? I believe Valpo charged $12 for a bleacher ticket ticket to a non-D1 opponent.
Could be worth an experiment to charge $5 for e.g. the top half of BB, CC, and DD. Obviously if it didn't fill in below that, they could move down.
We're getting 2,000 or 2,500 fans for these non-D1's. So, there's some chance of lost revenue if you gamble with low prices. But, it could well be worth the experiment.
I'd love to see free tickets (maybe one free adult with child), or buy-one-get-one-free, or similar handed out at places like Hilltop, Boys and Girls, maybe even at public schools for certain games. Maybe they already do some of this.
to justducky: SIU will probably be favorites even with out Bol or Bartley---although San Jose State is pretty big--couple of 6-11 guys, but we've got home court :)
Good to see Valley teams getting some love in the national press:
www.midmajormadness.com/2017/11/30/16718524/northern-iowa-is-making-the-valleys-grandest-statement-carlson-koch-basketball-mvc-pickford-mccloud
I didn't realize UNI was able to get UT-Arlington and Xavier to play them at their house. UNI did a really good job on their they're schedule
Quote from: oklahomamick on December 01, 2017, 09:09:18 AM
I didn't realize UNI was able to get UT-Arlington and Xavier to play them at their house. UNI did a really good job on their schedule
Let's be honest. They're (or Their ;)) schedule puts ours to shame.
Quote from: wh on December 01, 2017, 09:16:15 AM
Quote from: oklahomamick on December 01, 2017, 09:09:18 AM
I didn't realize UNI was able to get UT-Arlington and Xavier to play them at their house. UNI did a really good job on their schedule
Let's be honest. They're schedule puts ours to shame.
And Indiana State got Butler to come to the Hulman Center. That was one of the things that excited me most about MVC membership: the prospect of getting home dates with Big East schools. I hope Valpo gets some of these starting someday soon.
Quote from: wh on December 01, 2017, 09:16:15 AM
Quote from: oklahomamick on December 01, 2017, 09:09:18 AM
I didn't realize UNI was able to get UT-Arlington and Xavier to play them at their house. UNI did a really good job on their schedule
Let's be honest. They're schedule puts ours to shame.
It does, especially from a fan entertainment value perspective. Those are great opponents. How the heck do we get a team like Xavier to come to the ARC? I'm assuming those games that UNI have landed were built through coaching relationships and the "bigger" teams were trying to help out Coach Jacobson who is very well respected in the coaching community.
As annoying as some of the bad opponents have been early on it makes sense for our team because of roster turnover. This team needed tune up games and that probably has helped. Probably wouldn't have been a good idea to throw them to the wolves in November. The schedule greatly picks up in December with a lot of road good games.
I'd love to see some home-&-homes with some strong fellow mid-major program next season.
When we played SLU was it 2 away 1 home? And Rhode Island?
Quote from: oklahomamick on December 01, 2017, 10:25:39 AM
When we played SLU was it 2 away 1 home? And Rhode Island?
Both SLU and Rhode Island were 1-for-1 series.
Remember UNI and IN ST have been on the "bigger stage"(MVC) much longer than us. I think it taskes time to get a good reputation at a higher level. Let's face it, the MVC is well ahead of the Horizen or Summit Leagues.
:lol:Urk! the Dawgs may lose a fourth starter in that Jonathan Wiley (7.4 rpg) hurt his non-shooting hand in the win over SIU-E--at least it's his non-shooting hand, I guess :'(
Three MVC teams would be in the NIT according to this projection but the seeding is just depressing:
UNI a 3? Missouri State a 7? Loyola an 8? Come on.
http://www.nycbuckets.com/2017/12/nit-bracketology-dec-1-edition/
Quote from: SanityLost17 on November 29, 2017, 08:13:33 AM
I miss Lexus. He was always my favorite player. I am glad he is in a good situation at Boise. I wonder how he would fit into our lineup had he stayed?
It is too bad for the MVC that they didn't pick Valpo over Loyola several years back. Both Valpo and Illinois State were the "last team out" each of the last 2 years for an at large bid. If Valpo was in instead of Loyola both probably would have had just enough of an RPI boost to get that very last spot. That said, Loyola has really stepped up their game since coming over, so that is good.
I believe the committee was set on shafting all the better mid-majors last year. It wouldn't have mattered if Valpo and Illinois St would have been in the same conference.
Loyola crushed uic by 24. Something wrong at uic
Quote from: oklahomamick on December 02, 2017, 06:23:29 PM
Something wrong at uic
Coaching. Effort. Roster Formation (to many iso players). Coaching.
Quote from: oklahomamick on December 02, 2017, 06:23:29 PM
Loyola crushed uic by 24. Something wrong at uic
Went to Loyola-UIC game today. My 1st Loyola game day experience. Will post thoughts later.
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Just another day at the office for the MVC. 5-1 all games. 4-1 D-1 games.
Im still trying to get used to all this winning.
Glad that we made the jump when we did. Even though it is still early, after many more losses today, the HL is in the bottom 5 conferences in RPI
Gotta take the opportunity to advance while it's there. The program really needed this to keep the momentum going. Even if the chances for an at-large aren't great (I still don't believe that personally) they are certainly greater than they were in the HL. To me that was one of the greatest and most convincing arguments in favor of the move: I'll take a puncher's chance at an at-large over no-chance at all, especially since it raises our floor as well as our ceiling. All other things being equal we will land in better postseason tournaments (and in-season tournaments for that matter) with higher seeds in those tournaments as members of the MVC than as members of the HL.
Even though this is a rebuilding year we probably could win a 6th out of 7 HL conference title.
Quote from: oklahomamick on December 02, 2017, 10:34:12 PM
Even though this is a rebuilding year we probably could win a 6th out of 7 HL conference title.
Do we want to be Belmont safe in our little non-competitive bubble and just be happy we made it or do we want to try to follow the path of Gonzaga\ Butler\Creighton\Xavier\Wichita State\UNI etc. and become a top mid major power that actually wins once they get there? Thankfully it looks like we've chosen the more difficult more competitive path. This choice will have lasting benefits for our athletics.
Quote from: valpolaw on November 29, 2017, 10:38:38 AM
I still have a hard time thinking of Loyola as good due to them being pretty bad for so long. Interested to see how we do against them this year.
Much like MO ST, Loyola will get some big wins and some bad losses but they won't be nearly as consistent as Valpo due to the Crusaders deep depth.
More fantastic MVC numbers:
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/937377748011634688
If you're scoring at home that's:
4 top 100 teams
7 top 130 teams
and all 10 in the top 200
Hopefully Bradley keeps it rolling today. Go MVC!
Quote from: vufan75 on December 02, 2017, 07:16:36 PM
Quote from: oklahomamick on December 02, 2017, 06:23:29 PM
Loyola crushed uic by 24. Something wrong at uic
Went to Loyola-UIC game today. My 1st Loyola game day experience. Will post thoughts later.
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First trip to renovated Loyola's Gentile Arena yesterday. A few things I noticed that have been discussed on the forum.
Game ticket posted prices were $25/$20/$12. Event parking in nearby parking garage was $10. Saw 2 concession areas on lower level concourse. Noticed beer and wine sold from tables set up in several areas around concourse. Rest rooms accessed from concourse or in larger hallway outside arena.
One of my daughter's works for Loyola Medicine in Maywood in the Ortho Dept. Yesterday was sponsor day at the game, so we rec'd complimentary game tickets and were hosted in a stadium area called Lions Den. Had a nice sandwich, dessert, drink spread for sponsor guests. It was an area up above general admission seats about midcourt. Someday they hope to have suites there.
Had opportunity to speak awhile with recently hired Assistant AD/ Director of Development for Athletics, which he said was a new position for Loyola. He is a fundraiser for athletics. He previously was at DePaul. Nice guy. One bit of info he shared was he said he coached the Jenkins twins when they were younger. He joked that he takes a little credit for the Valpo win vs. Ole Miss and the Jenkins play. [emoji6]
I asked about the pep band. He said at Loyola in order to participate you had to take one music class. Regarding pay, he said he thought they received maybe $8-$10 per event played from something he called the student services fund. It looked like the pep band had a director, as one person not in the band definitely was leading the band.
I am a bit confused by marketing at Loyola though. The official team nickname is Ramblers, the mascot is dressed in a wolf head, and we sat in what was known as the Lion's Den area?
As far as the game itself, Loyola looks pretty good. Look forward to the Valpo games against them! UIC has talent but just doesn't play well together it seemed.
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Joe Lunardi has the MVC as 1-bid league right now. Kind of a bummer but also understandable. I'd love for the Conference to become 2-bid league again.
https://twitter.com/ESPNLunardi/status/937809929947308032
Quote from: historyman on December 03, 2017, 02:34:31 AMLoyola will get some big wins and some bad losses but they won't be nearly as consistent as Valpo due to the Crusaders deep depth.
Boda-bing!
Bad news for Bradley. He was a good defender.
https://twitter.com/DaveReynolds2/status/938804597333942272
Reaction of Bradley fans appears to be almost positive. The only concern among the fans commenting on MVCFans is that it may hurt the Braves' depth but other than that most fans seem to think this could be a case of addition by subtraction.
In order to be a multi bid league we really need to rack up as many Big wins as we can right now and can't afford bad losses. Even the Mountain West is struggling to get multiple bids and they have 5 schools in KenPom's top 80 and a 6th team just outside the top 100. Boise State's thumping of Loyola could prove costly. We only have two teams in the top 80 but could possibly double that with a perfect 2-0 night tonight.
So now Loyola beats number 5 Florida-- :crazy: Great victory for the Ramblers
Here are the RPI Numbers:
UNI 28
Valpo 54
Missouri State 61
Loyola 69
Illinois State 95
Evansville 99
Bradley 119
Southern Illinois 178
Drake 193
Indiana State 215
We need more big wins Valpo needs at least two of the next three no blowout losses and no bad losses to get strong consideration Missouri State and Loyola probably need to surprise some teams in conference and have no bad losses and the bottom of the league needs to get better
For those concerned about MVC expansion here are some numbers among possible candidates:
South Dakota State 65 but I think Daum is a senior
Belmont 86 in a bad year Impressive
South Dakota 88
North Dakota State 92 Split with Bears close loss to USC
Milwaukee 93 Maybe the Montana State loss (RPI 77) isn't so bad
Murray State 110 Big games still to come
Northern Kentucky 137 Sweeping East Tennessee State instead of splitting with them and beating Vermont and Memphis would have REALLY helped them
New Mexico State 138
SLU 163
Grand Canyon 214
Oral Roberts 270
UIC 305
Another strong win for UNI.
https://twitter.com/ValleyHoops/status/938968573820760069
Quote from: VU2014 on December 07, 2017, 09:11:56 PM
Another strong win for UNI.
https://twitter.com/ValleyHoops/status/938968573820760069
That's a better win than IN ST over IU, but it won't get the recognition. Great job. I wish mid major fans respected other mid majors and treated these wins more seriously.
UTA is known for baseball, and that is it :). It is a commuter campus, so they get no publicity in DFW for anything other than that typically.
Quote from: valpotx on December 07, 2017, 10:07:05 PMUTA is known for baseball
Who? UTA?(http://s1.ibtimes.com/sites/www.ibtimes.com/files/styles/lg/public/2013/01/03/cowboys-news-four-changes-dallas-owner-jerry-jones-should-make.jpg)
Also, they haven't fielded a football team since some time in the 1980's, but they maintain the football field for their T&F team, HS football, and HS band competitions.
UTA may not be UT Austin, but would be a good team for a home and home series.
Our 6-8 second team MVC PF Thik Bol isn't fairing well and will be re-evaluated in two weeks--a shame but thems the breaks. At least we got our 6-5 PG back --first game he played in 1.8 years he had 12 points and two assists but our 6-10 center Pippen fouled out with 3:35 to go and we were a mess underneath after that being out scored 12-6 for the 6 point loss to SLU
I think about this sometimes, are we ratcheting up the expectations a few degrees simply because of the move to The Valley?
What was the general expectation with Alec's freshmen class? I suppose some of this is the absurd records we've put up the last 3 years consecutively.
Peters last 3-years (82-22)
Broekhoff last 3-years (71-32)
What year begins the next 3-years of dominance class?
I'd argue Dan Oppland (last year 2005/06) was the one before Broekhoff. That was a big gap of mediocrity 2006/07-2010/11. Had only one season in the 20 win range during that time.
Is it Bakari, starting this year?
Is it Javon Freeman starting next year?
The real test for us will be overlapping studs. Avoiding down years in between.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on December 08, 2017, 05:33:41 PMI think about this sometimes, are we ratcheting up the expectations a few degrees simply because of the move to The Valley? What was the general expectation with Alec's freshmen class? I suppose some of this is the absurd records we've put up the last 3 years consecutively. Peters last 3-years (82-22) Broekhoff last 3-years (71-32) What year begins the next 3-years of dominance class? I'd argue Dan Oppland (last year 2005/06) was the one before Broekhoff. That was a big gap of mediocrity 2006/07-2010/11. Had only one season in the 20 win range during that time. Is it Bakari, starting this year? Is it Javon Freeman starting next year? The real test for us will be overlapping studs. Avoiding down years in between.
Your point on the need for overlapping studs to avoid down years is well-taken and I think we're starting to see that emerge. Peters had plenty of help, Tevonn has support, Freeman-Liberty will have a solid group around him, etc.To answer your first question, yes. The conference move plus the strong performance of the Broekhoff-Peters years are the main reasons why my expectations are so high, and they should be. That's a sustained period of excellence that we as a fanbase should make clear that we expect to continue. We're not in the mid-con anymore; we're in a conference that expects its teams to perform and excel on big stages. Yet some act like this is still a mid-con team that should be happy to be there whenever they make the tournament. That's not an MVC mentality, and that's not the mentality a program that is as successful as ours has been should have.
Loyola getting some love on WBEZ, Chicago Public Radio, this morning. Even a brief quote from Moser. Based on their 9-1 record, and somehow on game day of their game against 0-8 Norfolk State.
We've talked about not wanting RPI 313 teams like Norfolk State on our schedule. But, maybe it's OK to have some in the conference? The win may hurt Loyola's RPI (which isn't great for us, as it makes a win or a loss against Loyola look worse). But, it'll help the rest of the conference's RPI by virtue of boosting Loyola's W-L...
I get what your general statement is around the Mid-Con expectations, but I do want to point out that several of those Valpo teams from my time in school would take this team to the woodshed. Yes, the conference was crap, but we still had similar caliber teams back then.
https://twitter.com/CBB_Central/status/939993585688203270
I now don't feel so bad about our 30 point loss to Purdue, or our last second loss at Ball State. I can at least rationalize those outcomes, but Missouri State losing to an Oral Roberts team that is terrible nowadays? Yikes! This isn't the Oral Roberts of old, but some version that is 1/4 the talent specific to the days of Caleb Green and Ken Tutt.
From the MVCFANS board first posted December 7th: Looks like Wardle's past is reemerging (at least from the perspective of one player's family).
The story began with the dismissal of JoJo McGalston from the Bradley squad. But apparently there was some smoke beforehand -- this started brewing back in early November.
http://www.mvcfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4844
[tweet]938583463745044480[/tweet]
[tweet]938830668183650304[/tweet]
But apparently there was some smoke beforehand -- this started brewing back in early November.
[tweet]931652791751213056[/tweet]
[tweet]927017132591685634[/tweet]
There are always two sides to every story, but this one seems eerily similar to the events that transpired in GB not so long ago.
I've talked to a few Bradley fans about this and they were totally fine with letting him go because the kid had a history. We don't know what happened. This a non-story, imo. If you can't follow team rules then the coach has every right to cut a kid. He should be grateful that the University is still allowing him to have his scholarship.
This kid is going to be a handful for years to come. Krutwig is incredibly polished for a freshman. He sort of has the same frame as Marten Linssen but I'd say Krutwig is a little lighter on his feet and more nimble but doesn't have Marty's mid-range potential. Those 2 are going to be fun to watch the next 4 years. I'd like to see Marty put on lean muscle during the offseason to help his lateral movement and maybe it will help with his "explosiveness" when grabbing those 50-50 rebounds. It will be interesting to see how Krutwig matches up with Valpo and our height from inside. He may be smaller but he move better then our 7 footers.
https://twitter.com/ValleyHoops/status/940310218994569216
[tweet]938830668183650304[/tweet]
Someone who finds it worth the trouble might want to inform the Bradley player's mom that the bullying allegation at GB involved a white player, and was attested to by another white player. The entire roster of black players fully supported Wardle.
Quote from: wh on December 11, 2017, 02:47:58 PM
Someone who finds it worth the trouble might want to inform the Bradley player's mom that the bullying allegation at GB involved a white player, and was attested to by another white player. The entire roster of black players fully supported Wardle.
Yeah bringing race into it was pretty uncalled for. Also comparing "verbal abuse" from a coach to sexual assault is quite a stretch. "Verbal abuse" is a very subjective thing. I'm not willing to criticize Coach Wardle especially when we have no clue what was said and when the player that got kicked off the team has a track record of breaking team rules.
As mentioned there are always two sides to every story. Here is the link to the Bradley Fan Forum that discusses this item in even greater depth. https://bradleyfans.com if anyone is interested. Lots of interesting comments on the kid's previous history at Utah State and the changes Wardle has brought to Braves basketball.
https://twitter.com/MVCsports/status/940628060499533825
QuoteI get what your general statement is around the Mid-Con expectations, but I do want to point out that several of those Valpo teams from my time in school would take this team to the woodshed. Yes, the conference was crap, but we still had similar caliber teams back then.
We actually didn't. I'm not saying the Sweet 16 team wasn't capable of beating our current squad (because obviously, they could beat a number of P5 squads on a given night), but they'd be overmatched by our current squad most games. I think you're severely underselling how much a terrible Mid-Con allowed those 90's teams a huge margin for error and also how much more talented our recent squads have been compared to that era.
The 1998 team, as much as I love them, were blown out in their two non-conference games against HL opponents (Green Bay and UIC - back when the league was still called the Midwest Collegiate Conf.) They lost to Bethel. YSU beat them in early February. They came together at the right time and we will always love them for that, but don't sell short that we are at a significantly different level now, in recruiting and otherwise.
We're 8-2, with one bad loss to a ranked Big Ten team at their place and a one-point loss on the road to the likely MAC Champ minus our best player. It's gonna be okay.
I have positive expectations about this team, but I don't think you have to downgrade the '98 team to make the point about this year's team. Comparing eras is difficult in sports, because athletes are getting better, faster, stronger, etc.
If you look at context (where the '98 team was relative to DI basketball in '98), can we really say that this team is better? The '98 team had a recruit who chose Valpo over Syracuse. The '98 team had a someone who played 5-6 years in the NBA. I'm not criticizing the current team when I say that they don't have anyone in Bryce's league. The '98 team went toe-to-toe with Stanford (which won the St. Louis region and went to the Final Four). While the '98 team did lose a number of games, it's probably a stretch to say that they'd be overmatched by the current team.
I agree, 8-2 is better than I expected at this stage. I am just going to enjoy the ride.
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on December 12, 2017, 03:35:51 PM
QuoteI get what your general statement is around the Mid-Con expectations, but I do want to point out that several of those Valpo teams from my time in school would take this team to the woodshed. Yes, the conference was crap, but we still had similar caliber teams back then.
We actually didn't. I'm not saying the Sweet 16 team wasn't capable of beating our current squad (because obviously, they could beat a number of P5 squads on a given night), but they'd be overmatched by our current squad most games. I think you're severely underselling how much a terrible Mid-Con allowed those 90's teams a huge margin for error and also how much more talented our recent squads have been compared to that era.
The 1998 team, as much as I love them, were blown out in their two non-conference games against HL opponents (Green Bay and UIC - back when the league was still called the Midwest Collegiate Conf.) They lost to Bethel. YSU beat them in early February. They came together at the right time and we will always love them for that, but don't sell short that we are at a significantly different level now, in recruiting and otherwise.
We're 8-2, with one bad loss to a ranked Big Ten team at their place and a one-point loss on the road to the likely MAC Champ minus our best player. It's gonna be okay.
Sorry man, this is complete crap. I am not down on this team, but we need to be realistic here. I am not even referencing the 1998 team, but the teams during my tenure from the 1999-2000 season to 2003-2004. Several of those teams would SMOKE this team. We had our 2001-2002 team lose by less than 5 at both #14 Arizona and #2 Kansas, by 1 or 2 against #6 Notre Dame on a neutral court in 2002-2003, etc. You are severely overvaluing the conference change, and not looking at the talent we had. Having witnessed each home game during my days at Valpo, and watching all games online since we started Streaming, you can't say that there is a large difference in overall talent. I would take that 2001-2002 team any day over this year's team. Again, I think that we are good, but let's not pretend that just because it was 15 years ago, that those teams would not beat any of our recent teams, just because of their conference affiliation.
Quote from: valpotx on December 13, 2017, 01:42:17 AM
Quote from: bigmosmithfan1 on December 12, 2017, 03:35:51 PM
QuoteI get what your general statement is around the Mid-Con expectations, but I do want to point out that several of those Valpo teams from my time in school would take this team to the woodshed. Yes, the conference was crap, but we still had similar caliber teams back then.
We actually didn't. I'm not saying the Sweet 16 team wasn't capable of beating our current squad (because obviously, they could beat a number of P5 squads on a given night), but they'd be overmatched by our current squad most games. I think you're severely underselling how much a terrible Mid-Con allowed those 90's teams a huge margin for error and also how much more talented our recent squads have been compared to that era.
The 1998 team, as much as I love them, were blown out in their two non-conference games against HL opponents (Green Bay and UIC - back when the league was still called the Midwest Collegiate Conf.) They lost to Bethel. YSU beat them in early February. They came together at the right time and we will always love them for that, but don't sell short that we are at a significantly different level now, in recruiting and otherwise.
We're 8-2, with one bad loss to a ranked Big Ten team at their place and a one-point loss on the road to the likely MAC Champ minus our best player. It's gonna be okay.
Sorry man, this is complete crap. I am not down on this team, but we need to be realistic here. I am not even referencing the 1998 team, but the teams during my tenure from the 1999-2000 season to 2003-2004. Several of those teams would SMOKE this team. We had our 2001-2002 team lose by less than 5 at both #14 Arizona and #2 Kansas, by 1 or 2 against #6 Notre Dame on a neutral court in 2002-2003, etc. You are severely overvaluing the conference change, and not looking at the talent we had. Having witnessed each home game during my days at Valpo, and watching all games online since we started Streaming, you can't say that there is a large difference in overall talent. I would take that 2001-2002 team any day over this year's team. Again, I think that we are good, but let's not pretend that just because it was 15 years ago, that those teams would not beat any of our recent teams, just because of their conference affiliation.
I'd take Raits and Anti (developed) over DEREK and Sorolla personally. This is only their sophomore years, but if we are talking comparative...
Lubos was a better shooter and skilled player than any of our shooters right now.
I'm not sure we even need to go beyond those (3) players to make our point. I agree with Tex.
Quote from: valpotx on December 13, 2017, 01:42:17 AM
Sorry man, this is complete crap. I am not down on this team, but we need to be realistic here. I am not even referencing the 1998 team, but the teams during my tenure from the 1999-2000 season to 2003-2004. Several of those teams would SMOKE this team. We had our 2001-2002 team lose by less than 5 at both #14 Arizona and #2 Kansas, by 1 or 2 against #6 Notre Dame on a neutral court in 2002-2003, etc. You are severely overvaluing the conference change, and not looking at the talent we had. Having witnessed each home game during my days at Valpo, and watching all games online since we started Streaming, you can't say that there is a large difference in overall talent. I would take that 2001-2002 team any day over this year's team. Again, I think that we are good, but let's not pretend that just because it was 15 years ago, that those teams would not beat any of our recent teams, just because of their conference affiliation.
Not that this should be the end-all, be all of arguments, but Pomeroy's rankings had the 2001-02 team ranked at #47 in the country that year. Valpo this year is currently at #86, which supports your argument for that team. Your argument weakens the more you go toward 2003-04 as they were ranked #152 that year. The year before (02-03) they were ranked #93, so at least a close comparison to this year's group. As a hypothetical exercise, if this year's team were to play the #47 team at the ARC, Valpo would likely be a 1-2 point underdog with about a 45% chance of victory.
All rankings from the Ken Pomeroy era (01-02 through this year) for Valpo teams:
01-02: #47
02-03: #93
03-04: #152
04-05: #196
05-06: #175
06-07: #148
07-08: #119
08-09: #226
09-10: #183
10-11: #95
11-12: #138
12-13: #65
13-14: #163
14-15: #64
15-16: #42
16-17: #104
17-18: #86 (thus far)
The biggest difference between earlier teams and today's team is athleticism. Today's team is far more athletic and fast. They are also as big as any team we have ever had and will be even more so next year when we graduate two guys who are 6' and add a 6'4" and a 6'8" to the available roster. How that translates to wins remains to be seen but clearly Matt is going for athleticism first.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 07, 2017, 11:35:51 AMthis could be a case of addition by subtraction.
Have you ever noticed that no one ever says when a new player is acquired that it
could be a case of subtraction by addition?
It's not till that player leaves the program that the quote is used.
I will agree that this year's team is by far the most athletic I have ever seen at Valpo, but that doesn't translate to overall success and competitiveness. I do have to contradict the assertion that our recruits are of a higher caliber than what we had in the Mid-Con days. How quickly some will forget that when Scott Drew was our main recruiter, we had a few top 25 recruiting classes, 'back in my day' ;).
It's all subjective. In the mid con days, valpo would get hype for those games because it was their only/few chance to prove they were good/belonged. Did Kansas or notre dame put extra emphasis on playing a mid-con team?
Now that valpo is in the MVC (perceived better talented league), and recent history of success, these teams know they just can't show up and win the game.
I don't think the team this year is one of the better ones in valpo history...but i think the standard norm of expectations have increased since the mid con days. Wish there was a way to let the 2 battle it out on the hardwood.
Quote from: elephtheria47 on December 14, 2017, 07:52:06 AM
It's all subjective. In the mid con days, valpo would get hype for those games because it was their only/few chance to prove they were good/belonged. Did Kansas or notre dame put extra emphasis on playing a mid-con team?
Now that valpo is in the MVC (perceived better talented league), and recent history of success, these teams know they just can't show up and win the game.
I don't think the team this year is one of the better ones in valpo history...but i think the standard norm of expectations have increased since the mid con days. Wish there was a way to let the 2 battle it out on the hardwood.
I think everyone (at least most) is saying that this team has THE POTENTIAL to be one of the best in Valpo history, but at the moment they are one of THE YOUNGEST teams in Valpo history. If there is a silver lining to having Tevonn go down it is that the remainder of the team will be essentially what the team will look like next year.
Ten freshman and sophomores is a lot of youth and clearly that inexperience is showing particularly in turnovers. But, when you have a team like Ball State beat (ex last second heroics)--on the road and against a team that beat a top 10 team, at this stage, I think this looks very promising !(is that a run on sentence or what!)
UWM 73 - Loyola 56 yesterday. Tryin to get the MVC's attention?
Quote from: VULB#62 on December 17, 2017, 08:09:00 AM
UWM 73 - Loyola 56 yesterday. Tryin to get the MVC's attention?
I watched this game and it was more of a factor that Loyola didn't come to play. You can tell the players weren't excited to play UWM and it was a very cold shooting night for LU & UWM had a hot one. UWM didn't even win the rebounding differential. UWM looks better this season compared to last season.
Quote from: VU2014 on December 17, 2017, 09:01:23 AM
Quote from: VULB#62 on December 17, 2017, 08:09:00 AM
UWM 73 - Loyola 56 yesterday. Tryin to get the MVC's attention?
I watched this game and it was more of a factor that Loyola didn't come to play. You can tell the players weren't excited to play UWM and it was a very cold shooting night for LU & UWM had a hot one. UWM didn't even win the rebounding differential. UWM looks better this season compared to last season.
Which is a shame for them because that loss is a significant blow to any at-large hopes they may have had. To be fair to them, however, the Ramblers are quite shorthanded right now. I said this in another thread and I'll say it again: Milwaukee is a deeply flawed potential MVC add and are last among the realistic options in my eyes. However, they've got a lot going for them. I could see them as another Loyola type addition that takes a few years to get their feet under them but afterwards proves to be a creditable add.
To get back to the thread title, while you're all focusing (some of you way too much, IMO ;)) on one of our former conference mates, one of our current conference mates had a pretty good day yesterday: Illinois State beat Ole Miss, 101-97.
Quote from: VULB#62 on December 17, 2017, 08:09:00 AM
UWM 73 - Loyola 56 yesterday. Tryin to get the MVC's attention?
Whoever said Loyola was going to be inconsistent was so right. Of course Milwaukee is the epitome of an inconsistent team.
Nice win by my Salukis 71-61 over RPI 84 Lamar (8-2)--but got another player hurt--Back up PG Eric McGill--possible broken hand--yes that makes at least 6 players hurt this season including three starters--our 6-8 all-conference PF Thik Bol will finally make it back the beginning of January---so I'm not too upset over 6-4 record although we probably should have two more wins.
Lamar was averaging 80.5 ppg prior to last weekends game with the Salukis
Quote from: underdawg on December 18, 2017, 07:42:32 PM
Nice win by my Salukis 71-61 over RPI 84 Lamar (8-2)--but got another player hurt--Back up PG Eric McGill--possible broken hand--yes that makes at least 6 players hurt this season including three starters--our 6-8 all-conference PF Thik Bol will finally make it back the beginning of January---so I'm not too upset over 6-4 record although we probably should have two more wins.
Lamar was averaging 80.5 ppg prior to last weekends game with the Salukis
Nice win, indeed. I haven't kept up with all your injuries. How many guys are out right now? Other than the broken hand, is anyone returning any time soon?
For some reason Salukis players have been hitting their hands on our playing surface at a rapid rate :lol: We got our starting 6-5 PG Bartley back from a broken wrist a week or so ago but the idiot hit it again somehow--but He just will have to play with pain (it wasn't broken). Also banging up their hands were 6-10 Kavion Pippen (still can play) and Rudy Stradnieks (ok) However, back up PG Eric McGill probably broke his Hand> Dig this--all those three players mentioned injured those hands IN THE SAME GAME.
Our starting PF Thik Bol may be back, after the first of the year--so won't be able to play against powerhouse Nevada Friday in a Vegas Tournament
Sorry about whining so much--but I've never seen 6-7 injuries in one season
SIU over North Caroline A&T 102-64---Wish we'd saved this offensive game for Friday and Nevada
:o
https://twitter.com/patmhickey/status/943645923434954752
Looking at the Evansville - Duke score, is the difference between decent mid-majors and high majors that great? My guess is that these enormous blowouts are outliers, but - wow - there have been quite a few of these.
Reminder: Duke lost to a hot shooting Boston College recently. Er.... Boston College?
104-40... not a good showing on ESPN2...just playing them makes the Ace's RPI go up
Not the case on the west coast for us tonight.
Missouri Valley Conference play starts Friday 12/22...
Loyola At Missouri State
Saturday 12/23...
Illinois State at Evansville
Quote from: talksalot on December 20, 2017, 10:40:25 PM
104-40... not a good showing on ESPN2...just playing them makes the Ace's RPI go up
Not the case on the west coast for us tonight.
[/quote
I watched part of this game and Evansville had four players out including their top two scorers and dressed only 9.
https://twitter.com/Pg_Benson/status/944015429168697344
What last night did for our image among Valley fans...
https://twitter.com/CowboyTroy1533/status/944035055520944128
Quote from: VU2014 on December 21, 2017, 08:43:05 PM
What last night did for our image among Valley fans...
https://twitter.com/CowboyTroy1533/status/944035055520944128
We sorta do right now. But I'm unworried, have as young a team as seems possible.
Every team has a few stinkers--look what happened to the Tar Hills---if they played that game a 100 times, NC would win big 99
Illinois State fans have no room to talk. They lost to an even worse Charleston Southern team, and just beat UIC by 1, both at home...
https://twitter.com/YaleSportsGroup/status/943695844339077120
http://sports.sites.yale.edu/value-switching-conferences
Paul was talking Valpo Basketball on MVC podcast
https://twitter.com/ValleyHoops/status/944277609445249024
For future reference on games that are broadcast on ESPN3 if the games are on NBC Sports Chicago, you'll be blacked out if you're from IN, IL, MO and Iowa.
https://twitter.com/ValleyHoops/status/944404957054332929
Quote from: VU2014 on December 21, 2017, 08:43:05 PM
What last night did for our image among Valley fans...
https://twitter.com/CowboyTroy1533/status/944035055520944128
From his Twitter Page: "Continuing my education and pursuing my bachelors degree at Illinois State University!"
Does it really matter what some silly kid who makes a disparaging comment thinks? We have a long and proud history of making people eat words like these.
Yeah I normally don't care what others think but I'd be lying if I didn't want us to put our best foot forward and show we belong this season to other Valley fans. Loyola was literally catching grief for 4 years for their subpar performance in the league. Now they're finally take that next step as a program this season after Porter Moser started recruiting at a higher level and their University really started investing in their program with renovations to Gentile and boosted their budget over time. He'll definitely be eating crow in the future once we get healthy and this young team gets more experience playing together under its belt.
https://twitter.com/FatherHarry1/status/944371586148257798
Wonder who the 12th is
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 23, 2017, 09:58:26 PM
Wonder who the 12th is
Belmont please. I'd like the conference to remain a 50-50 Public-Private split.
Hope one of the private schools (Belmont or SLU) comes to their senses but I feel increasingly certain that #12 will be a public school from the Horizon League (Milwaukee or Northern Kentucky Probably Milwaukee).
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 24, 2017, 08:41:46 PM
Hope one of the private schools (Belmont or SLU) comes to their senses but I feel increasingly certain that #12 will be a public school from the Horizon League (Milwaukee or Northern Kentucky Probably Milwaukee).
If the MVC operates on the premise that promotions should be earned, Milwaukee has no chance.
Quote from: wh on December 24, 2017, 10:01:13 PMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on December 24, 2017, 08:41:46 PMHope one of the private schools (Belmont or SLU) comes to their senses but I feel increasingly certain that #12 will be a public school from the Horizon League (Milwaukee or Northern Kentucky Probably Milwaukee).
If the MVC operates on the premise that promotions should be earned, Milwaukee has no chance.
They don't though (see: Loyola) Milwaukee offers many of the same potential draws as Loyola. And if Belmont and SLU keep saying no what's the conference to do?
https://twitter.com/Catch_N_Shoot/status/946083247452250112
It looks like the MVC is going to hold steady at #8 in the conference RPI rankings, as we held a 0.010 lead over the MWC for the better part of a month, but are now increasing that lead.
https://twitter.com/FatherHarry1/status/948999136757641218
Here's the article. Some key points:
Murray State has to be a frontrunner Commissioner Elgin stated that Murray State felt like an MVC institution and even had the support of some of the coaches.
Basketball success is a driving factor but so are academics
11 teams is a no-go Any expansion will be to 12 teams
Expansion process will be slow methodical and well thought out Not necessarily taking effect next year
Possibility of not expanding at all exists but is unlikely
SLU NOT mentioned as viable option
Public\Private split purported to be important to commissioner Elgin but not listed as important factor in article
Geography and proximity to St Louis matter For conference tournament and missed class time purposes
Market size is important but not as much as you might think
Schools with easy air travel options will be considered
Teams mentioned in article: Milwaukee NKU Belmont UT-Arlington Denver Grand Canyon South Dakota State Oakland SEMO I assume there are even more schools not mentioned here that are under consideration and that this list is not exhaustive. I think UT-Arlington is a name to watch here.
http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/whats-next-on-mvc-expansion/
Personally although Arlington and GCU are appealing I'm all for just keeping it simple: Murray and Belmont and if Belmont says no take NKU and call it a day.
Missouri State and Northern Iowa play tonight at 8:00CT on CBSSN If anyone's interested in watching them.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 04, 2018, 05:44:54 PM
Missouri State and Northern Iowa play tonight at 7:00CT on CBSSN If anyone's interested in watching them.
Glad you posted, I'm tuning in. Shows 8PM CT though?
My mistake. It's 8
UNI is pulling a Valpo on offense...
https://twitter.com/ValleyHoops/status/949113301837012993
Alize Johnson is incredible. I feel a lot less bad about the beating the Bears handed us on New Year's Eve. They look like they're going to do that to a lot of teams in this conference. This game also shows what a brutally physical league the MVC is. You need to bring your physicality and your defensive intensity every single night or you're gonna get whupped.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 04, 2018, 09:11:47 PM
Alize Johnson is incredible. I feel a lot less bad about the beating the Bears handed us on New Year's Eve. They look like they're going to do that to a lot of teams in this conference. This game also shows what a brutally physical league the MVC is. You need to bring your physicality and your defensive intensity every single night or you're gonna get whupped.
After seeing MSU handle UNI like this, I'm thinking a sweep against UNI looks pretty probable.
62-55 the final out of Springfield...
This game was a good one for us all to watch for perspective. I'm glad I did:
The dismantling by Missouri State had much more to do with how good Missouri State is than how bad Valpo is.
Even the preseason darlings have thrown up some clunkers (Loyola UNI Illinois State)
Any team in this league is capable of beating anyone else every night
Teams like Indiana State are better than most gave them credit for
0-3 sucks but we have plenty of company there and something in me doubts we'll be the last MVC team with a bagel in the win column
This really is a baptism by fire for these freshman and sophomores. They'll adjust as the season goes on and for next season (they need to)
I know moral victories don't count for much but we really aren't that far from being 2-1. The wins will come. I think we can beat Southern Illinois.
As good as Drake has looked I wouldn't be surprised if we handed them a loss
I know that this is a huge departure from my posts usually. I'm passionate, emotional and wear my heart on my sleeve. So I say a lot of things when I'm fired up. But sometimes it's good on an off day to watch the competition and get a feel for how good they are. You might learn as I did that a lot of our struggles have more to do with the strength of the league and aren't the product of a letdown by the program. I'll be there Saturday and next Tuesday and I hope many of you will be as well. Keep packing the ARC. The wins will come and I believe they'll start to come soon. If there's one thing I've always believed was true that Coach Lottich said it's this: We're going to be a good tough team come March. Go Valpo!
All teams in top 165 All on the + of AdjEM Just beautiful numbers
https://kenpom.com/
UT-Arlington needs to quit being mentioned as an expansion candidate. They are completely irrelevant in DFW. The MVC will not gain relevance in TX, just because they bring in UTA.
Here are some of my thoughts on MVC expansion taken from some of my posts on MVCFans:
Maybe Belmont was just playing it cool and just wanted to see how we'd adjust post-Wichita and now they like what they see and want to join. I say keep it simple: Murray and Belmont and if Belmont says no add NKU.
I would be absolutely shocked if Murray State got left at the altar after how intense the courtship between them and the MVC got last year. The article even took time to mention that Murray State "fel like an MVC Institution" and even had the support of some MVC Coaches. Schools are always going to choose a school closer to their footprint than schools further away especially if that school would be isolated. Plus the further you stray from your footprint the more likely it is that a school gets poached. Murray State is already in at #11. Accept it. Embrace it. It's going to happen. I think it'll be between Belmont NKU and Milwaukee for the 12th spot. Quite frankly, that wouldn't make for a bad 14 team league if they were all on board. For all their warts Milwaukee is rising and would be a great upside addition to gamble on amid multiple quality additions.
SEMO and Denver are barftacular. SDSU GCU Oakland and UT-Arlington just don't make sense without another team The article spoke about Murray State as though they were a frontrunner. If they wanted Milwaukee they could have just taken them. This is between Belmont and Northern Kentucky. I take this article as a sign that Belmont may be coming around or that they are beginning to take NKU seriously, Either outcome is brilliant for the MVC.
I'll believe the notion that the MVC is considering the membership of far-flung teams accessible by airports or just one Dakota school when GCU UT-Arlington or SDSU join the conference Until then I'm going to assume that geography matters as much as academics and basketball and that this is a four horse race between Murray State (the frontrunner) Belmont Northern Kentucky and Milwaukee. If they really wanted Milwaukee we'd be at 12 already. This is all a ploy to shake Belmont loose (hence the reason public private split wasn't mentioned. They are perfectly content as they should be to take Northern Kentucky as #12 and call it a day. They just want to give Belmont one final chance to come to their senses. Frankly they should take site visits to both if it gets to that point and if you like NKU too and both are interested take a 14th team (Milwaukee or UIC). At that point it really wouldn't matter who you add as long as it makes geographic sense. I'd probably go for the new market although UIC would be a boon to everything but hoops and might mean even greater broadcast presence in Chicago.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 05, 2018, 12:36:00 AM
Here are some of my thoughts on MVC expansion taken from some of my posts on MVCFans:
Maybe Belmont was just playing it cool and just wanted to see how we'd adjust post-Wichita and now they like what they see and want to join. I say keep it simple: Murray and Belmont and if Belmont says no add NKU.
I would be absolutely shocked if Murray State got left at the altar after how intense the courtship between them and the MVC got last year. The article even took time to mention that Murray State "fel like an MVC Institution" and even had the support of some MVC Coaches. Schools are always going to choose a school closer to their footprint than schools further away especially if that school would be isolated. Plus the further you stray from your footprint the more likely it is that a school gets poached. Murray State is already in at #11. Accept it. Embrace it. It's going to happen. I think it'll be between Belmont NKU and Milwaukee for the 12th spot. Quite frankly, that wouldn't make for a bad 14 team league if they were all on board. For all their warts Milwaukee is rising and would be a great upside addition to gamble on amid multiple quality additions.
SEMO and Denver are barftacular. SDSU GCU Oakland and UT-Arlington just don't make sense without another team The article spoke about Murray State as though they were a frontrunner. If they wanted Milwaukee they could have just taken them. This is between Belmont and Northern Kentucky. I take this article as a sign that Belmont may be coming around or that they are beginning to take NKU seriously, Either outcome is brilliant for the MVC.
I'll believe the notion that the MVC is considering the membership of far-flung teams accessible by airports or just one Dakota school when GCU UT-Arlington or SDSU join the conference Until then I'm going to assume that geography matters as much as academics and basketball and that this is a four horse race between Murray State (the frontrunner) Belmont Northern Kentucky and Milwaukee. If they really wanted Milwaukee we'd be at 12 already. This is all a ploy to shake Belmont loose (hence the reason public private split wasn't mentioned. They are perfectly content as they should be to take Northern Kentucky as #12 and call it a day. They just want to give Belmont one final chance to come to their senses. Frankly they should take site visits to both if it gets to that point and if you like NKU too and both are interested take a 14th team (Milwaukee or UIC). At that point it really wouldn't matter who you add as long as it makes geographic sense. I'd probably go for the new market although UIC would be a boon to everything but hoops and might mean even greater broadcast presence in Chicago.
This exactly reflects my thinking as well. :thumbsup:
Yikes. The MVC down all the way at #18 in the ranking. 4–20 record for Adj. Eff. During Specific Periods vs. top teams.
http://barttorvik.com/trankslice.php?year=2018&sort=&conlimit=All&conyes=1&begin=20171101&end=20180501&top=&quad=1&mingames=3&venue=All&type=N
https://twitter.com/totally_t_bomb/status/949379168957030401
Quote from: VU2014 on January 05, 2018, 03:03:47 PM
Yikes. The MVC down all the way at #18 in the ranking. 4–20 record for Adj. Eff. During Specific Periods vs. top teams.
http://barttorvik.com/trankslice.php?year=2018&sort=&conlimit=All&conyes=1&begin=20171101&end=20180501&top=&quad=1&mingames=3&venue=All&type=N
https://twitter.com/totally_t_bomb/status/949379168957030401
Every night I go to bed worried about our conference's Adj. Eff. During Specific Periods vs. top teams (adj. for venue) Minimum 3 games ranking.
Quote from: a3uge on January 06, 2018, 05:20:37 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on January 05, 2018, 03:03:47 PM
Yikes. The MVC down all the way at #18 in the ranking. 4–20 record for Adj. Eff. During Specific Periods vs. top teams.
http://barttorvik.com/trankslice.php?year=2018&sort=&conlimit=All&conyes=1&begin=20171101&end=20180501&top=&quad=1&mingames=3&venue=All&type=N
https://twitter.com/totally_t_bomb/status/949379168957030401
Every night I go to bed worried about our conference's Adj. Eff. During Specific Periods vs. top teams (adj. for venue) Minimum 3 games ranking.
Boom. Face!
Me too a3uge. BTW, anyone notice Drake is 4-0 going into our game with them this coming week?
Quote from: VULB#62 on January 06, 2018, 05:26:15 PM
Me too a3uge. BTW, anyone notice Drake is 4-0 going into our game with them this coming week?
The conference winner is going to be 9-7 in the regular season and end up with at least a 13 seed. That's pretty amazing since we won the conference easily in 2014 and got a 13, whereas the 3-10 teams would be 15 seeds at best.
Tomorrow would be a good day to get some scouting in on future opponents with two MVC games on national TV.
Missouri State plays at Illinois State at 1:00PM on CBSSN and following that game
Loyola plays at Northern Iowa at 3:00PM on ESPNU
Looks like two great games. I know I'll be tuning in.
Missouri State plays at Illinois State at 1:00PM on CBSSN and following that game
>>>>>>>Most favored by 4.5
Loyola plays at Northern Iowa at 3:00PM on ESPNU
>>>>>>>Panthers favored by 4.5
Before the MVC season started, if someone had told me that after four games Drake would be on top with a 4-0 record and UNI would be last at 0-4, I'd have said norfolk'in way.
Beat Drake!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Jan. 8, 2018 Men's Basketball Coaches Teleconference
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HB89w46jyDQ
https://twitter.com/ValleyHoops/status/950410472087605248
https://twitter.com/SInow/status/950396747498557441
Milik Yarbrough and Alize Johnson are 2 of the 5 Mid-Major players getting NBA attention this season according to Sports Illustrated.
UNI fans are not happy right now. Looks like they're questioning their Head Coach who if there is anyone who deserves the benefit of the doubt it's their head coach.
https://twitter.com/Brett_Crawford/status/951278145277255680
https://twitter.com/NicoleUbben/status/951278412269850625
https://twitter.com/williebatabego/status/951465710689181696
Indiana State absolutely crushed Illinois State today. Indiana State is better then most people thought and they have heavy reinforcements coming next season with Cooper Neese and Deavion Washington being eligible for them next season.
https://twitter.com/IndStMBB/status/954819436980076546
And the upcoming renovations to the Hulman Center. Watch out, because Indiana State appears to be on the path to being really good really soon.
The lowest RPI in the MVC is now 149 and that is GREAT! :thumbsup:
Unfortunately we are that dead last 149 RPI team. :'(
I had us pegged as Top 150 team at the beginning of the season. We're an average to a slightly above average team this season. When you consider us losing Joe Burton Midseason, having the 149th best RPI isn't actually that bad. It's really a testament to the quality of the conference.
The best part of watching the standings in the MVC...there are no teams currently looking like its impossible to move up in the standings. Drake and Loyola only have 2 losses, Missouri State and Indiana State have 3 losses, Bradley, Illinois State, and Southern Illinois have 4 losses, with Valpo and Northern Iowa having 5 losses. Evansville is pulling up the reins at 6 losses, but NO is looking like there is no shot of being left out of a chance to change the outlook of the conference going into February. I love this, and it makes watching other MVC games more exciting because you just don't know who is going to win any of the matchups.
Quote from: justducky on January 20, 2018, 06:46:32 PMThe lowest RPI in the MVC is now 149 and that is GREAT! Unfortunately we are that dead last 149 RPI team.
Remember, it's an unbalanced schedule... RPI 67 and 94 in conference we have not played yet. We'll take care of one of the 67s today.... that would be the league-leading-rpi Ramblers. They will drop by just playing us; we will go up by just playing them. and go up a lot with a win.
Quote from: talksalot on January 21, 2018, 07:15:03 AM
Quote from: justducky on January 20, 2018, 06:46:32 PMThe lowest RPI in the MVC is now 149 and that is GREAT! Unfortunately we are that dead last 149 RPI team.
Remember, it's an unbalanced schedule... RPI 67 and 94 in conference we have not played yet. We'll take care of one of the 67s today.... that would be the league-leading-rpi Ramblers. They will drop by just playing us; we will go up by just playing them. and go up a lot with a win.
Loyola's opponents' winning percentage will improve by playing us.
RPI after MVC Round 8/18
61 Loyola
70 Missouri State
93 Illinois State
107 Bradley
121 Southern Illinois
127 Evansville
134 Northern Iowa
138 Drake
140 Indiana State
160 Valparaiso
It's been a brutal 24 hours for Illinois State. They lost their best player to a toe injury and their recruit decommits from them.
https://twitter.com/THEchrispayton/status/955903089827045377
Quote from: VU2014 on January 23, 2018, 06:51:52 PM
It's been a brutal 24 hours for Illinois State. They lost their best player to a toe injury and their recruit decommits from them.
https://twitter.com/THEchrispayton/status/955903089827045377
Yikes. His newest twitter follower is Javon Freeman-Liberty... I really hope Javon doesn't decommit from Valpo...
I don't suppose he's trying to get intel on Valpo is he? Hopefully they're just friends but this could be bad.
Javon signed his NLI. He's locked into at least a year barring a release.
Did Chris Payton already sign, or was it verbal?
Quote from: valpotx on January 23, 2018, 08:12:25 PM
Did Chris Payton already sign, or was it verbal?
Yep (edit: verbal). He was a 2019 recruit. There was always sense he could change his mind because he is a arguably a Top 5 recruit in the state of Illinois in that class and there is a rumor that the U of I staff developed a liking to his game and that may or may not be a why he reopened his recruitment.
Quote from: VU2014 on January 23, 2018, 08:26:48 PM
Quote from: valpotx on January 23, 2018, 08:12:25 PM
Did Chris Payton already sign, or was it verbal?
Yep. He was a 2019 recruit. There was always sense he could change his mind because he is a arguably a Top 5 recruit in the state of Illinois in that class and there is a rumor that the U of I staff developed a liking to his game and that may or may not be a why he reopened his recruitment.
Are we sure a Junior can sign an NLI?
I assume he means "yep" to the verbal. A junior cannot sign an NLI.
Quote from: VU2014 on January 23, 2018, 08:26:48 PM
Quote from: valpotx on January 23, 2018, 08:12:25 PM
Did Chris Payton already sign, or was it verbal?
Yep. He was a 2019 recruit. There was always sense he could change his mind because he is a arguably a Top 5 recruit in the state of Illinois in that class and there is a rumor that the U of I staff developed a liking to his game and that may or may not be a why he reopened his recruitment.
Wow, this video is pure cheese. Explains the NLI and when it can be signed.
https://youtu.be/tRP91VDjVQk (https://youtu.be/tRP91VDjVQk)
Bradley put a whoopin on Missouri State tonight (they were a little short handed)....I'm pretty sure any team can beat any team on any night in this league.
That's part of what makes this league so great and also what will hurt us this year come selection time.
Quote from: M on January 23, 2018, 08:59:49 PMI'm pretty sure any team can beat any team on any night in this league.
Yes, a great thing about this conference.
Hoping for Valpo and a bunch of away teams tonight!
We would be 5th best in the hL this year...
Fourth at best...
Quote from: covufan on January 24, 2018, 10:19:38 AMHoping for Valpo and a bunch of away teams tonight!
Illinois State 72 Northern Iowa 83
Indiana State 77 Southern Illinois 82
Loyola 80 Drake 57
we are 2-7 and looking up at everyone else...
Samford and SeLa lost, UCRiv is down early to Irvine... the only bright spot today is the Utah State Aggies clobbering the Air Force 71-49.
Valpo's RPI tumbled to 176...SOS at 144
All this time we were worried about RPI anchors and celebrating being away from them and it turns out in this league WE are the anchor.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 24, 2018, 09:51:05 PM
All this time we were worried about RPI anchors and celebrating being away from them and it turns out in this league WE are the anchor.
Well it's clear you don't know how RPI works...
I know enough to know that my statement isn't false. We have the conference's lowest RPI... By far... That makes us the anchor weighing down the league right now ... That is a position Valpo should NEVER be in... I may not be privy to the mathematical formula but I know bad basketball when I see it and what we are playing is bad basketball especially on offense.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 24, 2018, 10:04:25 PM
I know enough to know that my statement isn't false. We have the conference's lowest RPI... By far... That makes us the anchor weighing down the league right now ... That is a position Valpo should NEVER be in... I may not be privy to the mathematical formula but I know bad basketball when I see it and what we are playing is bad basketball especially on offense.
Every team plays each other twice. Win or lose both games vs Evansville, it affects Missouri State the same since they also play Evansville twice.
a3uge is right. As far as the other Valley school's RPIs are concerned all that really matters is what we did in the non-conference. It's hard to believe now but we actually had the second BEST RPI in the league based just on non-conference results. You can see the numbers here on ESPN's RPI ranking under the column NCRP.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/rpi/_/groupId/18 (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/rpi/_/groupId/18)
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on January 24, 2018, 09:51:05 PMand it turns out in this league WE are the anchor.
Just not as big an anchor as the big anchors in the HL.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_9m97YZ72RyI/Sq_5FnY8VwI/AAAAAAAAAzU/hGDn0KaoAqc/s400/Anchor+%28for+taking+pictures+with%29.jpg)(http://www.pxleyes.com/images/contests/ship-anchor/fullsize/Big-anchor-50fad5cfbfd26_hires.jpg)(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0c/3a/38/0c3a38fd0e6dd7bb401b3e81f76222a6.jpg%5Bimg%5D%5Bimg%5Dhttp://l7.alamy.com/zooms/5e0d653f959e482d8f35d6b07ba68343/giant-anchor-on-display-at-the-nyhavn-canal-in-copenhagen-denmark-ab32mx.jpg)
Valpo in the MVC(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/5e/65/b8/5e65b8e7ab18a433b3dab3af89cbd37b--anchor-tattoo-small-anchor-ankle-tattoos.jpg)
We aren't the anchor. We actually performed well in the Non-Conference, so us struggling now doesn't hurt our Conference-mates this season. We could be a bad loss for one of the top teams but we won't really hurt anyone this season. There really isn't a team with a good shot at a at-large bid. Maybe Loyola.
But it's embarrassing to see this proud program at the bottom of the Conference in it's first season. Embarrassing is the best word I can think of to define this teams play since the UC-Riverside game.
Don't forget...our ENTIRE roster was recruited based on needs for the Horizon League. NONE of our roster came here because we are in the MVC now. They came because of our win ability in the HL. Now, we're seeing the realities of having to take our lumps, be the new kid on the block, and take our losses, learn from them, and get our guys working together. Confidence is hard to build when you're the new kid, but we'll get there. We just have to keep doing what we're doing, win or lose, and get our heads into what we have to do to be competitive in the MVC. Yes, our non-conference schedule didn't help us as much as it looked, but we were playing a bunch of "wins", not really learning a whole lot about our team and how to grow. We're just so used to being at the top that we don't know how to lose and rebuild/reload. We'll have to take our lumps for a couple of years, like we did in the HL, but we'll get back there. Like the Philadelphia 76ers, we'll just have to "TRUST THE PROCESS".
I hope our guys are putting in the extra work when people aren't looking.
https://twitter.com/BUBrianWardle/status/958043465702617089
A healthy reminder that College Basketball Teams are cyclical and Coaches whose teams were pretty pedestrian or bad just a few years ago are now some of the top teams in the conference. Wardle's team had 5 wins a few seasons ago. This is going to be the first season Loyola is over .500 in conference play. It takes times to build teams. Hinson's has been with SIU for 6 seasons and his teams are starting to hit its stride.
We're in the midst of a disappointing season but the future could be very bright for this young team.
https://twitter.com/FatherHarry1/status/960539021419143170
Illinois State's star player Milik Yarbrough was arrested this morning. No word if he'll be uniform tomorrow against SIU tomorrow or against Valpo on Sunday. ISU also just lost Keyshawn Evans who will be out for a few weeks.
If Yarbrough isn't in uniform it could have a huge impact on the game against us on Sunday.
https://twitter.com/Pg_Benson/status/961339978289700866
Andy Kennedy has been fired by Ole Miss. That means Bradley and Illinois State should be very concerned that they are about to suffer the same fate as Loyola this year and have their home half of a P5 home and home ripped away from them with nothing to show but cash.
Andy Kennedy's base salary is 1.9 million dollars a year, times three years left on his salary means that Ole Miss will be paying about 5.7 million dollars to fire their all time winningest coach. Given that, they certainly won't bat an eye when their next coach asks for 80k-100k to buy out each of their games at Bradley and Illinois State. Too bad, those would have been great home games for the conference next year.
Man this sucks. NCST backing out this year probably cost Loyola any shot at an at-large bid and now Ole Miss may have the potential to do the same to Illinois State and/or Bradley both of whom I think are going to be really good next year along with much of the rest of the conference. I wish there was more we could do to force these P5 schools to honor their agreements and play both sides of a home and home but I guess without these buyouts, teams in conferences like ours wouldn't even get a chance at P5 home games.
Are we not schdeduled to do a home & home with Vanderbilt starting next year?
I wouldn't be so sure that Ole Miss backs out of that, given all of the media attention that series got when Ole Miss accepted ISU's Twitter challenge. (And actually, the amount of money they're throwing around in buyout cash and new salary makes it more likely that the AD is gonna not want to throw away an extra 100k to avoid playing two road games in a rebuilding season, not less).
Regardless, it sucks, and speaks to the need for midmajors to try and get the home game upfront in these deals (or in the middle if it's a 2-for-1). Utah famously backed out of a scheduled game at Ball State last year *in August* after BSU had already played the front two games of a 2-for-1 in Salt Lake City. Utah had to pay 200K for backing out so late, but it was still too late for BSU to find a D-1 opponent at that point.
Quote from: valpo64 on February 12, 2018, 04:18:48 PM
Are we not schdeduled to do a home & home with Vanderbilt starting next year?
Heard it's in the works but I'm not sure if it starts next season or not. We have a series with Oral Roberts coming up I believe.
(http://coacheshotseat.com/iStock_000001596704Small.jpg)
https://twitter.com/Standard_Sports/status/963465360006680576
Lusk won't win out. He has a bunch of talent but like Kampe, either he is bringing in talented head cases or he can't coach.
Seeding probabilities.
https://twitter.com/MVCfans/status/963786475643994112
We will beat UNI at home, so we are probably going to be the #9
Quote from: valpotx on February 14, 2018, 01:13:13 PM
We will beat UNI at home, so we are probably going to be the #9
I'm not sure it's a given but we certainly should play better at home then we did at their place.
I think we have a solid chance to steal one at Drake. Our strong defensive wings are a good matchup for their heavy motion guard based offense.
I feel like this guy takes joy in Indiana school's struggling other then his beloved butler.
https://twitter.com/Tom101010/status/964362194375753728
He's just a troll looking for clicks. Best to ignore him.
Looking at the bottom 5 teams in the Valley... and who they have left on the schedule. Think seeding for Thursday under the Arch
Missouri State 7-8 Drake Bradley Northern Iowa
Evansville 6-9 Loyola Indiana State Southern Illinois
Indiana State 6-9 Southern Illinois Evansville Bradley
Northern Iowa 5-10 Illinois State Valpo Missouri State
Valpo 4-11 Bradley Northern Iowa Drake
so... if...they would wind up...
MOST L L W 9-9
EVAN L L L 6-12
INDS L W L 7-11
UNIA L L L 5-13
VALP W W W 7-11
The winner of the Evansville / Ind St game next Wednesday could go either way and they could flip. We lose the tie breaker to Evansville based on Head-to-head competition, and we win the tie-breaker over Indiana State based on RPI ...we are 180 they are 181 ! Well, that really doesn't matter if my predictions are right... the 8-9 teams play each other.
We need UNI to lose 2 of their last 3... and one of those losses has to be in the ARC next Tuesday night.
Tom Davis.....what an a**hole.
I feel like Indiana State is a better matchup for us then Evansville for the opening round of Arch Madness on Thursday. Not to mention that could get the rivalry going.
When T. Davis' team, Butler, has problems, he never says a word...just attacks other schools of mid-major caliber. Don't bother with him, especially now that his News-Sentinel no longer publishes an afternoon paper in FW.
Father Harry dropping truth and going in hard on Joe Lunardi and P5 bias:
https://twitter.com/FatherHarry1/status/964614987896455174
https://twitter.com/FatherHarry1/status/964616012715954178
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 17, 2018, 11:43:54 AM
Father Harry dropping truth and going in hard on Joe Lunardi and P5 bias:
https://twitter.com/FatherHarry1/status/964614987896455174
https://twitter.com/FatherHarry1/status/964616012715954178
Lunardi is predicting what the selection committee will do. This isn't his opinion bracket. What evidence is there to suggest the committee won't favor P5 programs over mid majors? Lunardi has actually been pretty supportive of mid majors.
Quote from: valpo64 on February 16, 2018, 08:53:33 PM
When T. Davis' team, Butler, has problems, he never says a word...just attacks other schools of mid-major caliber. Don't bother with him, especially now that his News-Sentinel no longer publishes an afternoon paper in FW.
Davis isn't exactly loved on our message board either. He provided consistent coverage, but would block Butler fans on twitter for simply disagreeing with the way he saw things (FWIW, I'm not on twitter).
I was watching this Texas this morning, and thinking that they will be in the NIT, and was very surprised to see them included on any NCAA bracket list.
Quote from: valpotx on February 17, 2018, 06:49:46 PM
I was watching this Texas this morning, and thinking that they will be in the NIT, and was very surprised to see them included on any NCAA bracket list.
Texas is projected to be 8-10 in the toughest league in the NCAA, and against the 7th toughest schedule in the nation. They have wins over Butler, Texas Tech, Alabama, TCU and two over Oklahoma. Now I know that outside of their Texas Tech win that none of the other teams have a spectacular league record, but all of those teams have a better Kenpom rating than Loyola does. They have zero bad losses. Loyola has a good away win over Florida, but they also have a loss to Milwaukee and a home loss to Indiana State hurting them.
I'm not saying it's fair, but realistically Loyola doesn't get in without winning the conference tourney. Illinois State didn't last year, and basically had the same resume as Loyola does this year, without the Indiana State level home loss.
This is an even stronger argument for mid-major leagues to want to move away from the RPI and simply go to a straight up analytics-based ranking system, and at-large teams are simply chosen based on who has the highest ranking in that system once the league champs are in. For example, Nevada has a kenpom rating of 17, and would be safely in under that system. However, under the current system, while they might still get in (wins against URI and Boise State twice) without winning the conference tourney, they likely wouldn't get the seed line they deserve under either circumstance. Under this system, it wouldn't even matter if the big boys wouldn't schedule you. If you prove yourself to a certain level against your schedule, you get in, and are seeded according. Now, that might make selection Sunday a little boring, but honestly, to get the best at-large teams in the field, this is a much better way than the current system.
Hey nothing is as expected this year... Today: Vandy beat Florida and Baylor beat Texas Tech... and Valpo beat Bradley
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 17, 2018, 11:43:54 AM
Father Harry dropping truth and going in hard on Joe Lunardi and P5 bias:
https://twitter.com/FatherHarry1/status/964614987896455174
https://twitter.com/FatherHarry1/status/964616012715954178
Father Harry forgot to take into account that Loyola's non-conference SOS is 279. They disqualified themselves from at-large consideration the day their schedule was published.
I kind of feel for LU though because they had a 2-for-1 with NC State but once Keats took over the job he just bought out the away game at Loyola. That really hurt LU before the season even started. They had a very good win over a up-&-down Florida team in their own building. Unfortunately it might not be enough for Loyola, because they had a overall weak OOC schedule and got blown out by Boise State (Custer didn't play that game but the committee won't be giving a mid-major the benefit of the doubt).
I think Loyola pretty much needs to win Arch Madness to get in now, because they've lost too many Conference games (Bradley, ISUb, MSU). I could see a scenario where they are part of one of the "first 4 out," depending on how Conference Tournaments shake out.
ISU-red was left out (2017) with 7 losses (NIT included). Loyola now has 5 with trips to SIU, Evansville and home with the redbirds still remaining. Should they win out then lose late in the tournament to another top MVC foe it will be very difficult for the selection committee to keep them out.
Unfortunately every last in coin toss ends up tails for the mid major.
Actually it may not be. Illinois State had an RPI of 33 against an SOS of 124 Loyola presently has an RPI of 49 against an SOS of 154. ISUr had six losses after Arch Madness against 27 wins.Loyola would also be 27-6 if they won out until the Finals of Arch Madness. Illinois State's worst losses were @Tulsa and @Murray State similar to Loyola's losses @Milwaukee and Vs Indiana State. Illinois State got blown out twice by Wichita State and lacked a signature non-conference win (best win was home against the Shockers) Loyola has a signature non-conference win @Florida but was also blown out in Boise. But they do have a win over a likely conference champion in Wright State. They also need to factor in Custer's injury which covers the Milwaukee and ISUb losses I think. (I've heard they will pay more attention to injuries as a factor). What may save them is the collective strength of the MVC this year. We've gone from 12th in RPI to 8th with 3 top 100 teams. (The MVC had only two last year with the third highest RPI being Southern Illinois at 145.) Last year the MVC had 6 sub 180 RPI teams 4 under 200 and 1 under 300. This year the LOWEST RPI in the conference is 185 with 7 teams ABOVE 150. That's a HUGE jump. Loyola still has 3 top 125 opponents left, two on the road, and they'll very possibly get 3 more in the MVC tournament. If they win 5 of those they'll see a big bump in their metrics especially if their loss is a narrow one to anybody in the top 4-5. I think an at-large is in play for Loyola but the argument against them is (unfortunately) easy enough to make depending upon how the P5 bubble teams do in their tournaments. Further complicating matters is teams like theGonzaga\St Mary's loser New Mexico State (if they don't win the WAC tournament) St. Bonaventure (who has a strong non-con resume and a win over Rhode Island) URI if they don't win the A-10 tourney and Boise State and Nevada who are a combined 4-0 vs the top 3 of the MVC. Although our conference is stronger as a whole than the Mountain West their top teams clearly bested our top teams giving them a big edge in the at-large pecking order unless the Broncos really stumble down the stretch. Loyola needs to be nearly perfect down the stretch and get a little help in order to be in the at-large conversation.
Quite a thoughtful look at where the MVC stands. Have you shared this with MVCFANS ?
I haven't yet but I might.
Lunardi's job is to predict what the committee will do, not offer what he thinks it *should* do (though you could make the argument that he's giving the committee an easy out by reinforcing their past bias in favor of the P5).
That said, he's gone on record this year commenting that the committee has trended too far in over-valuing strength of schedule. He said the pendulum has gone too far where it's now devaluing winning, to the benefit of the haves and detriment of midmajors. So he's the wrong tree to bark up on this one.
I don't give a fat crap about Loyola's non-conference SOS, particularly when one of the P5 teams they are competing with for a spot on the bubble chickened out of a scheduled game at Gentile Arena at the last minute. If their schedule made them a weak team, then NC State should have been *itching* to play them for an easy record-padding W.
The Ramblers would run any of those P5 mediocrities out of the gym, and that's a FACT. (And that's also why the committee doesn't want them in the tournament -- can't have the brand names getting beat. It's bad for business).
I hope the committee brings up NCST's cowardice when debating them vs. Loyola. The at-large phase is all about getting the best teams right? Well what does it say when one bubble team is afraid to go on the road to play another in a lower but still strong conference and backs out of the game to protect its own resume while denying the other team a critical opportunity? I know what it says, and I hope the committee does too. #SendTheRightMessage #RamblersOverWolfpack.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 18, 2018, 09:28:02 PM
I hope the committee brings up NCST's cowardice when debating them vs. Loyola. The at-large phase is all about getting the best teams right? Well what does it say when one bubble team is afraid to go on the road to play another in a lower but still strong conference and backs out of the game to protect its own resume while denying the other team a critical opportunity? I know what it says, and I hope the committee does too. #SendTheRightMessage #RamblersOverWolfpack.
I am pretty sure that Loyola will lay an egg and end up with another regular season loss. BUT lets say they don't and maybe they end up with a bubble RPI of say 36 and NCS lands alongside at 44. Now we know what we would do but what would the geniuses on the selection committee do? Would this be the last straw that opened up a total revolt?
I don't know how much more the mid majors will be able to stand after Murray State Monmouth Valpo Illinois State and Loyola (or some comparable team) all get monumentally snubbed in a span of four years.
Oh also:
NCST: 0-1 vs UNI
Loyola: 2-0 vs UNI
So give the common opponents edge to the Ramblers as well, #RamblersOverWolfpack
I've said this elsewhere, yet one simple change would help all mid-majors:
To get an at large bid, any team must finish with either a) A winning record in their conference season. b) Make (not necessarily win) their conference tournament game. If a team can't finish in the top half of their conference, or be playing well enough to make their championship game, they shouldn't play in the NCAA tournament.
By the way, right now Lunardi is projecting 10 ACC teams, 8 SEC teams, and 8 Big12 teams. There is no way 66% of the teams from those three conferences should make the tournament.
I wonder how many teams who finished in the bottom half of their league yet earned an at large bid have made the elite 8, final four, been a champion.
Quote from: M on February 19, 2018, 12:47:12 PM
I wonder how many teams who finished in the bottom half of their league yet earned an at large bid have made the elite 8, final four, been a champion.
I don't know the complete answer to that. The one example that might fit best UCONN in 2010-11, who finished 9-9 in the Big East regular season, won the Big East tournament, and won the national championship. Still, they would have been eligible under the criteria I outlined above.
So with one game left I thought I would take a look at the predicted finish of teams versus the current status.
Predicted versus Current:
1. Missouri State 1. Loyola
2. UNI 2. SIU
3. Loyola 3. Illinois State
4. Illinois State 4. Drake
5. SIU 5. Bradley
6. Valpo 6. Missouri State
7. Bradley 7. Indiana State
8. Indiana State 8. Evansville
9. Evansville 9. UNI
10. Drake 10. Valpo
So the best performer is clearly Drake and my guess is Medved will be COY. The worst performer is UNI followed by Missouri State and then Valpo. My guess is Lusk is gone, Jacobsen is safe just because he is Jacobsen and Simmons should be gone but he did slightly better than predicted so may survive but the Aces fans are restless.
The eye test says Loyola is a tourney team but in this current era we're in, they'll be snubbed. Yes the MVC is better (the league is much deeper) this season but I don't think they'll be able to make it as a at-large. I hope I'm wrong. I'm hoping Loyola loses in the finals, so we could see what the Committee would do.
https://twitter.com/FanSided/status/966662648103342080
We are getting absolutely trashed on MVCFans right now. Fans are pining after Murray State and wishing they were added instead of us. They think the MVC has buyer's remorse right now. We deserve some criticism but some of this feels like too much.
The last place team in the MVC has an RPI under 190. A simple thank you would suffice. You are welcome MVC, you got 2 very winnable games against a team that was not an RPI drag.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 22, 2018, 11:34:55 AM
We are getting absolutely trashed on MVCFans right now. Fans are pining after Murray State and wishing they were added instead of us. They think the MVC has buyer's remorse right now. We deserve some criticism but some of this feels like too much.
I imagine the same thing happened the first year Loyola was in the Valley but instead of Murray State they were pining for us!! We'll be on top quicker then Loyola. Then we'll see...
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 22, 2018, 11:34:55 AM
We are getting absolutely trashed on MVCFans right now. Fans are pining after Murray State and wishing they were added instead of us. They think the MVC has buyer's remorse right now. We deserve some criticism but some of this feels like too much.
There are some intelligent people on the MVCFans board and there are also some very lazy hot take people on there. Loyola was getting trashed for literally 5 years till the beginning of this season. There will be skeptics till we finish near the top. It's just the way it's going to go. We aren't great this season but we aren't a drag on the Conference either. It's not like we're getting completely run out of the gym other then that ISUr game and the MSU game early in conference play. It is what it is. We'll have our chance to silence critics the next few seasons.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 22, 2018, 11:34:55 AM
We are getting absolutely trashed on MVCFans right now. Fans are pining after Murray State and wishing they were added instead of us. They think the MVC has buyer's remorse right now. We deserve some criticism but some of this feels like too much.
I enjoy your posts, but who cares what ppl think about VU based on one season. That's mighty short sighted of them.
We sucked ___ this year. Based on a sample size of nearly 1 season, can we argue? Sure, we can argue for a larger sample size.....that's about it though.
I have to admit this is personal to me. I grew up here I was educated here all the way through graduate school. I don't see myself ever leaving here. Seeing this town and this school do well is a huge part of my identity. I love Valpo. I want others to love and respect Valpo as much as I do. I'm a vocal person and I vociferously defend the people and things I love. Admittedly it was a lazy take from that UNI fan and I feel like I got a good factual rebuttal in and even brought up some information about his program and their performance the past couple years that I'm sure he's not proud of. They've really stunk since they lost in the 2016 tournament yet it seems so many in that fanbase still strut around like none of that has happened and they're still dominating.
Quote from: VU2014 on February 22, 2018, 01:21:30 PMThere will be skeptics till we finish near the top.
...This league will never amount to anything as long as Valpo is in it...
That's a quote from the head coach... at Cleveland State following their departure from the AMCU to the Mid-Western Cities League...
Always fun to think back on THAT comment.
Interestingly I wouldn't be surprised if a team like NKU were to say that about Cleveland State these days when the Norse leave for a better conference
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 22, 2018, 02:21:10 PM
I have to admit this is personal to me. I grew up here I was educated here all the way through graduate school. I don't see myself ever leaving here. Seeing this town and this school do well is a huge part of my identity. I love Valpo. I want others to love and respect Valpo as much as I do. I'm a vocal person and I vociferously defend the people and things I love. Admittedly it was a lazy take from that UNI fan and I feel like I got a good factual rebuttal in and even brought up some information about his program and their performance the past couple years that I'm sure he's not proud of. They've really stunk since they lost in the 2016 tournament yet it seems so many in that fanbase still strut around like none of that has happened and they're still dominating.
I appreciate your passion, keep it up!
Having your last place team lose only 4 non conference games is a blessing for the entire league. Usually the last team in a mid major conference is a big RPI drag. Do MVC fans really want the entire league to be 8-8? Not sure why they'd be complaining about that.
Quote from: VU2014 on February 22, 2018, 10:50:53 AMThe eye test says Loyola is a tourney team but in this current era we're in, they'll be snubbed.
Loyola (32 RPI) at home today against ISU-red. They still sit with only 5 losses. Boise St now has 6.
I do not think Loyola will win at St. Louis so this could get interesting.
Would be awesome to see 2 mvc bids. That's what we thought we were getting when joining the HL. During our 10 years did we ever experience multiple bids?
Quote from: M on February 19, 2018, 12:47:12 PM
I wonder how many teams who finished in the bottom half of their league yet earned an at large bid have made the elite 8, final four, been a champion.
UCLA did well that year many thought they should have been left out of the Big Dance. I'm thinking it was two years ago but maybe I'm wrong. That doesn't mean that the mid-major that would have replaced them would not have done just as well.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 22, 2018, 11:34:55 AMWe are getting absolutely trashed on MVCFans right now. Fans are pining after Murray State and wishing they were added instead of us. They think the MVC has buyer's remorse right now. We deserve some criticism but some of this feels like too much.
We got a ton of support from other fanbases. It was great to see. I didn't see a single post agreeing with that UNI fan. Also for all the crap VU gets RE: athletic facilities, and all the praise I've seen UIC get, I encourage you all to read about the gameday experience the poster called "MissouriValleyUnite" had when he visited the Pavilion last night to take in NKU @UIC. It's amazing. And you thought our gameday experience was bad. Here's his post:
Went to NKU/UIC last night. First thing was parking. Short, but slow line. Once it got to my turn, it took a couple minutes. Cashier was using dimes to match singles because he was running out of change. Next step was walk-up's. Waited 15 minutes outside behind just 7 people until the line moved. Computers broke and no Plan B. Next order was finding my seat. I walked to my 200 section only for it to be roped off and the usher tell me "they're not supposed to be selling those seats". I was sold seats that were closed off! Then I went for food. Only 1 food stand open and there were 40+ people in line. Checked again in 2nd half, 30+ people in line. Checked again 2 minutes left, 10 people in line so I waited only for them to be out of the 2 things I wanted. Darkest arena. Scoreboard 80 ft behind basket. Rafters maze of thick dust. Still had fun (what D1 game isn't?!). Decent team (McClain's really improved the Flames since I watched them trail 43-10 @NKU 2 months ago). Good crowd. Great music (90s night). Excellent school. But of 19 venues I've attended this year, their gameday ops were an umitigated trainwreck.
Quote from: bbtds on February 24, 2018, 01:33:06 PM
Quote from: M on February 19, 2018, 12:47:12 PM
I wonder how many teams who finished in the bottom half of their league yet earned an at large bid have made the elite 8, final four, been a champion.
UCLA did well that year many thought they should have been left out of the Big Dance. I'm thinking it was two years ago but maybe I'm wrong. That doesn't mean that the mid-major that would have replaced them would not have done just as well.
Iowa 2004-05
"The Hawkeyes finished 21–12 with a 7–9 conference record in the 2004–05 regular season, but they won their first two Big Ten Tournament games against Purdue and Michigan State before losing the third game to Wisconsin, 59–56. They earned an at-large invitation to the 2005 NCAA Tournament as a #10 seed, where they lost 76–64 to Cincinnati in the first round. During the season, leading scorer Pierre Pierce was dismissed from the team amid charges of sexual abuse; Pierce ultimately served one year in prison."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iowa_Hawkeyes_men%27s_basketball
Depending on what the NCAA does regarding this FBI investigation, there may be many spots opened up for mid-majors this season.
Quote from: valpotx on February 24, 2018, 07:21:55 PM
Depending on what the NCAA does regarding this FBI investigation, there may be many spots opened up for mid-majors this season.
They won't start looking to dealing out punishments till after April 2nd. They'll come out with whatever excuse they need to not get the powerhouses in the tourney.
Loyola is in Seth Davis' top 25. I want to believe Loyola could make it as a at-large but my gut says no.
https://twitter.com/ValleyHoops/status/967970211197485056
Illinois State ending up 3rd hurt. It means they lost another chance at a top 100 win. The best path they can hope for resume wiseis Evansville\Bradley\ISUr or SIU. They need strong showings in the conference tournament from Wright State and Florida to make those wins look better and Milwaukee needs a decent showing to make that loss look better. They would also benefit from Boise State playing their way onto the right side of the bubble. I think they have to get to the finals lose close and get some help as I mentioned before.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 25, 2018, 10:49:49 PM
Illinois State ending up 3rd hurt. It means they lost another chance at a top 100 win. The best path they can hope for resume wiseis Evansville\Bradley\ISUr or SIU. They need strong showings in the conference tournament from Wright State and Florida to make those wins look better and Milwaukee needs a decent showing to make that loss look better. They would also benefit from Boise State playing their way onto the right side of the bubble. I think they have to get to the finals lose close and get some help as I mentioned before.
It's dumb. Say Valpo and Indiana State split their games vs each other and lost the rest. Overall conference RPI would be identical. Loyola's RPI would be unchanged. The only thing that would change is that Bradley becomes a "top 100" win for Loyola, and SIU and Illinois State become top 75 wins. Wins over Indiana State and Valpo go from 170/175 to 200+ RPI wins, which are perceived the same anyway.
It's almost more impressive that Loyola finished with only 3 conference losses without any easy 200+ RPI cupcakes on the schedule, but since the league played each other relatively equally, they don't get any of these "quadrant" wins.
The solution to RPI being a flawed metric isn't to use it in a more illogical way.
Podcast with MVC Commish Doug Elgin.
https://twitter.com/pjstarsports/status/968223277196877824
Quote from: VU2014 on February 26, 2018, 06:41:11 PM
Podcast with MVC Commish Doug Elgin.
https://twitter.com/pjstarsports/status/968223277196877824
Some very interesting conversations conversation in here about Non-Conference scheduling. The commish pretty much explicitly says teams need to schedule better. Also puts an emphasis on the need to get in early season Tournaments. Remember we got screwed by the Great Alaskan Shootout being canceled.
He says no one can schedule bottom 100 programs: Chicago State, SIUE, UC Riverside...
I think the Conference should introduce scheduling standards and hold each other accountable. Including ourself. We weren't in a position to benefit from scheduling a really tough non-conf.
Also interesting to hear that fellow Valley schools have shied away from playing in CITs and CBIs in recent history. I wonder if we'd pay to be in one this season. Is it even worth it at this point? Maybe it's worth the extra practice time and it teaches them how to prep for a Tournament.
They also talk about MVC expansion.
A Tale of Two Leagues:
32 Loyola-Chicago
87 Illinois State
91 Southern Illinois
106 Wright State
107 N. Kentucky
114 Bradley
133 Missouri State
138 Evansville
141 Northern Iowa
159 Drake
172 Indiana State
177 Valparaiso
179 Oakland
234Milwaukee
236 UIC
289 IUPUI
306 Detroit
309 Green Bay
311 Cleveland State
319 Youngstown State
A few things come to mind:
• If still in the HL, Valpo would be 1 of the front runners in the chase for a tournament championship. (Just an observation about the dramatic difference in quality of the 2 leagues - zero interest in returning)
• 5 of 10 HL teams are among the 100 worst RPI's in D-1, which means they won't be considered as potential MVC opponents next year. (Could be 6 of 10 if UIC goes 0-1 in the HL tournament.)
• Valpo has a better RPI than 6 of 12 OVC teams, and better than 4 of 6 in Murray State's Division.
• There are tons of easy wins in both the HL and OVC. There are no easy wins in the MVC - zero.
Thanks for the post wh...well put and a great observation of analysing the 2 leagues.
WH, you got my curiosity up about the OVC, so I added them to your list in red.
Quote from: wh on February 27, 2018, 01:00:05 AM
A Tale of Two Leagues:
32 Loyola-Chicago
67 Murray State
76 Belmont
87 Illinois State
91 Southern Illinois
106 Wright State
107 N. Kentucky
114 Bradley
133 Missouri State
138 Evansville
141 Northern Iowa
159 Drake
159 Tenn Tech
170 Austin Peay
171 J'Ville State
172 Indiana State
175 Tenn State
177 Valparaiso
179 Oakland
234 Milwaukee
236 UIC
253 SE MO State
262 Eastern Illinois
270 Eastern KY
282 SIU-E
288 Morehead State
289 IUPUI
306 Detroit
308 Tenn- Martin
309 Green Bay
311 Cleveland State
319 Youngstown State
A few things come to mind:
• If still in the HL, Valpo would be 1 of the front runners in the chase for a tournament championship. (Just an observation about the dramatic difference in quality of the 2 leagues - zero interest in returning)
• 5 of 10 HL teams are among the 100 worst RPI's in D-1, which means they won't be considered as potential MVC opponents next year. (Could be 6 of 10 if UIC goes 0-1 in the HL tournament.)
• Valpo has a better RPI than 6 of 12 OVC teams, and better than 4 of 6 in Murray State's Division.
• There are tons of easy wins in both the HL and OVC. There are no easy wins in the MVC - zero.
About easy wins to prove your point: Valpo plays
seven (7) MVC teams that are in the RPI Top 150 ----
TWICE. In the OVC, the two leaders are the only ones in the RPI Top 150 - basically 2 games. The 2 HL leaders also have only themselves to play in the RPI Top 150.
It became clear in early January that the HL in its current state offered us a lot more cushion and margin for error than the MVC ever will. And that's a good thing (although bad for us right now). No off nights in the Valley, and if you have one, expect to get beat. Think about how many times we were able to dig ourselves out of a hole in an HL game the past few years when we didn't bring our A game... yeah, we can't plan on doing that very often now.
Time to rise to the challenge.
The Horizon League is historically bad this season and has fallen off a cliff. The Horizon League was 19th in RPI last season and now it's either the 27th or 28th. I think part of it has to do with replacing Valpo with IUPUI but also some HL teams are having a absolutely brutal year.
The MVC is top to bottom just a better league and has better coaches and better athletes. There are no "cupcake" games in the MVC. Even Valpo who is the last place team this season took Loyola a Top 30 team down to the wire in their own building.
Quote from: wh on February 27, 2018, 01:00:05 AMA Tale of Two Leagues:
The former Mid-Con, now Summit League might be another comparison. The SL has upped their game after we left.
Quote from: wh on February 27, 2018, 01:00:05 AMThere are tons of easy wins in both the HL and OVC. There are no easy wins in the MVC - zero.
As we humbly found out this year. :(
We went 6-4 against the #2-6 teams in the MVC. We went 0-6 against 7-9. Much of that is skewed by how badly Northern Iowa and Missouri State tanked it in conference play. The additional top 150 opportunities this league can provide will help immensely. I can't help but marvel at how solid this league is and how much more solid it can get with Murray State and another solid program in the fold. This is what I meant when I told people in terms of relative strength increase this move to the MVC is as significant for us coming from the Horizon as moving up to the AAC was for the Shockers.
That's an excellent catch.
Other than Loyola, we can beat anyone on any given night. Illinois State would probably be the next tallest task for us.
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 27, 2018, 01:47:03 PM
WH, you got my curiosity up about the OVC, so I added them to your list in red.
Quote from: wh on February 27, 2018, 01:00:05 AM
A Tale of Two Leagues:
32 Loyola-Chicago
67 Murray State
76 Belmont
87 Illinois State
91 Southern Illinois
106 Wright State
107 N. Kentucky
114 Bradley
133 Missouri State
138 Evansville
141 Northern Iowa
159 Drake
159 Tenn Tech
170 Austin Peay
171 J'Ville State
172 Indiana State
175 Tenn State
177 Valparaiso
179 Oakland
234 Milwaukee
236 UIC
253 SE MO State
262 Eastern Illinois
270 Eastern KY
282 SIU-E
288 Morehead State
289 IUPUI
306 Detroit
308 Tenn- Martin
309 Green Bay
311 Cleveland State
319 Youngstown State
A few things come to mind:
• If still in the HL, Valpo would be 1 of the front runners in the chase for a tournament championship. (Just an observation about the dramatic difference in quality of the 2 leagues - zero interest in returning)
• 5 of 10 HL teams are among the 100 worst RPI's in D-1, which means they won't be considered as potential MVC opponents next year. (Could be 6 of 10 if UIC goes 0-1 in the HL tournament.)
• Valpo has a better RPI than 6 of 12 OVC teams, and better than 4 of 6 in Murray State's Division.
• There are tons of easy wins in both the HL and OVC. There are no easy wins in the MVC - zero.
About easy wins to prove your point: Valpo plays seven (7) MVC teams that are in the RPI Top 150 ---- TWICE. In the OVC, the two leaders are the only ones in the RPI Top 150 - basically 2 games. The 2 HL leaders also have only themselves to play in the RPI Top 150.
:thumbsup:
That alone confirms that the choice to go to the MVC was so freaking correct.
https://twitter.com/FatherHarry1/status/971012920795688961
A good article about Paul Lusk getting canned at Missouri State. The pressure to win at this level is real. It also just shows how hard it is to restore a struggling program. Missouri State was a really strong program has some strong history in the late 80's and 90's. NCAA Tournament appearances: 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1992, 1999 (S16). They've also had some big name coaches but have never been able to fully restore the program back to it's glory days.
Steve Alford (4 seasons, 78-48), 1995–1999, 1 NCAA Sweet 16 Appearance and 1 NIT Appearance
Barry Hinson (9 seasons, 169-117), 1999-2008 4 NIT Appearances (1 NIT Quarterfinal)
Cuonzo Martin (3 seasons, 61-41), 2008–2011 1 CIT Appearance (Champions), 1 NIT appearance (2nd round)
Paul Lusk, (7 seasons, 106-121) 2011–2018 1 CIT Appearance (1st round)
Lusk is a lot like our buddy Greg Kampe. Able to attract good athletes but not able to coach them. Could it be the athletes lack character? Could it be the athletes bring skills that aren't complimentary to others on the team? Or could it be the coaches just can't coach? ???
Vu72, you can throw UIC's Steve McClain into that group.
We were in a recruiting battle for some of the same players. I wonder if those players who chose UIC over Vapo would have produced the same, more, or less if they chose VU?
I know I'm going to sound very envious and slightly petty but I'm getting a little annoyed with how much attention Loyola is getting from the chicago sports media. I'm happy for Loyola getting their moment but it annoys me knowing if we won Arch Madness and the MVC we'd hardly get any publicity from the big Chicago news papers and sports talk radio and we are semi part of Chicagoland. There is no chance the Indianapolis media would give us any serious attention because they are too consumed with all things Butler, IU, and Purdue. Chicago sports media really doesn't have anything to talk about or write because we're well into Cubs/Sox spring training and there are no real interesting stories there. The Blackhawks are bad this season and as is the Bulls who are in full tank mode. There are no other Illinois schools in the Tourney so they flock to Loyola this season, which is "good" for the conference but also annoying because they are writing the same story 10 times. It's the look at how good and cute Loyola is puff pieces. Yes I know I'm being slightly petty. Northwest Indiana is a weird spot in the midwest. The NWI considers itself part of the greater Chicagoland but the Chicago media completely doesn't acknowledge it other then for weather updates (yet the NWI accounts for a sizable portion of their viewership/readership) and Indianapolis for the most part doesn't acknowledge as part of Indiana. The "Region" really is a fitting nickname.
They're the only good team in the whole state and they're in Chicago. Let them have their 15 minutes (or 40 or 80 or however long they stay alive).
Coach Roger Powell might end up coaching against Valpo in the near future. I think he'd be a slam dunk hire for any midwest mid-major because he can really coach and RECRUIT.
I still wonder sometimes if Mark LaBarbera offered Roger Powell first but chose to head to Nashville with Bryce instead as his top assistant. I don't think the search ever expanded passed Powell, Lottich and Gore. I think that is one of the "perks" of becoming an assistant of a program like Valpo is that we have a track record of hiring from within and ML has publicly stated that in the past. It helps Valpo attract top assistants because if Lottich achieves Bryce Drew level of success he'll get calls for bigger/higher paying jobs one day and our assistants will have a good chance to land the job if they impress.
https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN/status/972219591140216837
Coach Powell actually interviewed for the Missouri State job.
https://twitter.com/FatherHarry1/status/972521555745017856
Good for him, as he deserves a shot. He can really recruit, but I have no idea on his coaching prowess.
Quote from: valpotx on March 10, 2018, 04:02:40 PM
Good for him, as he deserves a shot. He can really recruit, but I have no idea on his coaching prowess.
It makes me nervous with him potentially joining the conference and taking the leading job at conference rival. Powell may run a similar system to VU and will likely be competing for the same recruits in Chicago. Good for him because he does deserve a opportunity but I wouldn't mind if he took a opportunity outside of the MVC.
http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/whos-next-missouri-state/
https://twitter.com/FatherHarry1/status/972594277552402432
Quote from: VU2014 on March 09, 2018, 09:59:12 PM
I know I'm going to sound very envious and slightly petty but I'm getting a little annoyed with how much attention Loyola is getting from the chicago sports media. I'm happy for Loyola getting their moment but it annoys me knowing if we won Arch Madness and the MVC we'd hardly get any publicity from the big Chicago news papers and sports talk radio and we are semi part of Chicagoland. There is no chance the Indianapolis media would give us any serious attention because they are too consumed with all things Butler, IU, and Purdue. Chicago sports media really doesn't have anything to talk about or write because we're well into Cubs/Sox spring training and there are no real interesting stories there. The Blackhawks are bad this season and as is the Bulls who are in full tank mode. There are no other Illinois schools in the Tourney so they flock to Loyola this season, which is "good" for the conference but also annoying because they are writing the same story 10 times. It's the look at how good and cute Loyola is puff pieces. Yes I know I'm being slightly petty. Northwest Indiana is a weird spot in the midwest. The NWI considers itself part of the greater Chicagoland but the Chicago media completely doesn't acknowledge it other then for weather updates (yet the NWI accounts for a sizable portion of their viewership/readership) and Indianapolis for the most part doesn't acknowledge as part of Indiana. The "Region" really is a fitting nickname.
Not jealous or petty at all, IMO. The lack of attention that Valpo gets from the Chicago, Indianapolis and Fort Wayne media is sad and unfair.
My thoughts on the MVC right now
We need a stronger top of the conference and better scheduling. Multiple conferences with lower ratings than us are getting multiple bids. The MWC and WCC will get two each the A10 will get three in a terrible year. The MVC had a great renaissance and will still only get one. Here's what needs to happen:
Missouri State needs a better coach and more aggressive scheduling
UNI needs to act like conference play matters and not just show up to play whenever they feel like it
Valpo Bradley Loyola Southern Illinois and Evansville need to schedule better
Illinois State needs to do a better job holding on to the talent they bring in.
EVERYONE needs to keep getting better
We need to drop this defeatist "it's all about Arch Madness" attitude that I have heard WAY TOO MUCH from TOO MANY coaches and administrators who should know better.
Murray State NEEDS to be added. If there is no suitable 12th that's fine. Tell the non revenue sports to deal with it. This is a BASKETBALL conference. BASKETBALL drives the bus.
When is the last time the #8 conference was a one bid league? This shouldn't happen, and we need to work hard to make sure it never happens again.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 11, 2018, 03:16:07 PM
My thoughts on the MVC right now
We need a stronger top of the conference and better scheduling. Multiple conferences with lower ratings than us are getting multiple bids. The MWC and WCC will get two each the A10 will get three in a terrible year. The MVC had a great renaissance and will still only get one. Here's what needs to happen:
Missouri State needs a better coach and more aggressive scheduling
UNI needs to act like conference play matters and not just show up to play whenever they feel like it
Valpo Bradley Loyola Southern Illinois and Evansville need to schedule better
Illinois State needs to do a better job holding on to the talent they bring in.
EVERYONE needs to keep getting better
We need to drop this defeatist "it's all about Arch Madness" attitude that I have heard WAY TOO MUCH from TOO MANY coaches and administrators who should know better.
Murray State NEEDS to be added. If there is no suitable 12th that's fine. Tell the non revenue sports to deal with it. This is a BASKETBALL conference. BASKETBALL drives the bus.
When is the last time the #8 conference was a one bid league? This shouldn't happen, and we need to work hard to make sure it never happens again.
How would a tougher schedule by Valpo, Bradley Loyola, Southern Illinois, and Evansville have helped the MVC get to two bids?
If teams in the MVC scheduled harder, they wouldn't be 8th in RPI. The A10 is ranked 11th because they scheduled the 2nd hardest schedule. Harder scheduling means more losses, which means a worse league RPI. Similar to the MVC, the mountain west was 9th in RPI and is only a 1 bid league (sans a loss by their best team in the conf tournament).
Looking at the A10, two teams were top 20 in ooc RPI. One team is in the first four (complete joke) and the other is a 7 seed. Those teams finished with 5, and 3 conference losses (plus a conf tournament loss).
The MVC had ZERO teams with a top 50 ooc RPI. The top RPI team won the conference tournament, so they weren't eligible for an at-large. The #2 team had an RPI of 85. They (Illinois State) were already 11th in ooc sos, and finished 5-6. The 3rd team in RPI finished with an RPI of 100, but only finished with an ooc RPI of 148, with a 7-5 record. I don't see how scheduling harder would have solved anything this year. If Valpo, Bradley, Evansville, etc had a harder schedule, they would all have more losses, and the top of the league would have a worse RPI.
You've got to think Belmont may be changing it's mind about the MVC now. Wins over Vanderbilt Western Kentucky Middle Tennessee State and Murray State in addition to close losses to Washington and Providence and a 24-9 record still isn't good enough for an NIT at large. I think they may reevaluate their conference situation now.
Belmont was in a similar position last season where they won the regular season but they lost in the tourney.
I've heard their HOF Coach Byrd talk about a potential conference switch as recently as this summer and was pretty blunt that they are staying put in the OVC. Belmont doesn't seem to have many aspirations to be in a better conference unless it's a obvious multi-bid league. The MVC currently isn't one but it has the best potential out of any of the Mid-Major conferences not named: A10, MWC, and WCC to be one again. There is rumors that Gonzaga is in talks to move to the MWC which would firmly make the WCC a 1-bid conference and St. Mary's would be forced to change their OOC scheduling ways.
I don't think Belmont is leaving the OVC. It sounds like they want to be the big fish in a very tiny pond. They may welcome the thought of Murray State leaving. The only way I see them leaving is if the OVC's future tv rights deal is in a really bad spot and it forces them to look elsewhere.
Yeah the WCC is heading for perennial 1 bid status. BYU has started that they would enter negotiations to follow Gonzaga out the door. As for Belmont and the OVC when the AD of you strongest historical member and a charter member at that pounds the table as hard as Murray State's AD did to leave the conference that has to give any TV executive major pause before throwing out any kind of lucrative deal. Then you look at what the conference has left: Belmont the second to fourth fiddle in the Nashville market, Jacksonville State (wants to leave) EKU (Wants to leave) Morehead State (would leave if they could), yeah let's televise those games said no one ever. Most of the people who consume OVC content are probably Murray State fans anyway. I think there's at least a chance Belmont will be looking to increase its national profile. They already do a ton of recruiting in Indiana Illinois and Kentucky so why not play more games in those states? As for Byrd's denial he would have to do so until the move is done anyway. Denial means nothing. Remember this: If Gonzaga can leave the WCC anyone can move. Gonzaga is the ultimate team that has no need to move if it doesn't want to and it's been trying hard for years to get out. Why? Because Gonzaga's fish to pond ratio is so out of whack that the fish that is Gonzaga can't even move it just lays there gasping for air. It's the same for Murray State and Belmont in their even tinier pond.
Maybe I missed the discussion, but, is it really just Loyola and Drake in the post-season?
This must be by choice, rather than by a lack of invitations/possibilities?
I've been out of touch for a week or so. But, last I heard, Valpo was still thinking about the CBI - going to have conversations with players, etc. Did we ever hear anymore about that?
I thought Paul or someone tweeted out that Lottich said it was a No to any post season at this point.
Quote from: agibson on March 12, 2018, 01:18:53 PM
Maybe I missed the discussion, but, is it really just Loyola and Drake in the post-season?
This must be by choice, rather than by a lack of invitations/possibilities?
I've been out of touch for a week or so. But, last I heard, Valpo was still thinking about the CBI - going to have conversations with players, etc. Did we ever hear anymore about that?
Valpo chose not to accept a invite to the CBI and yes only Drake/Loyola decided to pursue postseason opportunities. The NIT field is pretty stacked this year with good teams. Illinois State and SIU said they wouldn't accept anything less then a NIT bid this offseason. It seems that has been a common thread among Valley teams in recent years for whatever reason.
To be honest I can't blame schools for not wanting to cough up a significant amount $ to play in these postseason tournaments. It can sometimes make sense to play in the CBI/CIT if you have a young team to groom them for some postseason experience later on (ex: AP, JA, and LW's freshman season). Drake specifically entered the CIT because they have a senior laden roster that never had the opportunity to play in the postseason so that's why they chose to accept a invite to the CIT. The last time Drake played in a postseason tourney was 2012 (CIT).
Quote from: crusader05 on March 12, 2018, 01:55:09 PM
I thought Paul or someone tweeted out that Lottich said it was a No to any post season at this point.
Ah there it is. Way back on March 5. Earlier in the week than I'd imagined.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 12, 2018, 01:58:59 PM
Valpo chose not to accept a invite to the CBI and yes only Drake/Loyola decided to pursue postseason opportunities. The NIT field is pretty stacked this year with good teams. Illinois State and SIU said they wouldn't accept anything less then a NIT bid this offseason. It seems that has been a common thread among Valley teams in recent years for whatever reason.
To be honest I can't blame schools for not wanting to cough up a significant amount $ to play in these postseason tournaments. It can sometimes make sense to play in the CBI/CIT if you have a young team to groom them for some postseason experience later on (ex: AP, JA, and LW's freshman season). Drake specifically entered the CIT because they have a senior laden roster that never had the opportunity to play in the postseason so that's why they chose to accept a invite to the CIT. The last time Drake played in a postseason tourney was 2012 (CIT).
The finances are tricky. I don't really know what $$ to put on participation in these tournaments. I imagined that at least some teams were able to play for free/cheaply, that the costs were usually on the home teams. But, I'm not really sure.
In general, I didn't mind the Horizon League approach to them, which seemed some flavor of "play early, play often". If teams can get motivated for them (certainly not always a given) the extra practice times and games presumably has value, and winning a couple of games seems like a nice way to cap off a not-horrific-by-historical-standards season.
For Valpo, this year, I could have gotten into a CBI game. If the coaching staff thought the players would be into it (maybe they wanted to end the season...). At least to the tune of going to the ARC, or watching a stream, or even paying $5-10 for a stream.
It seems very strange for the 8th conference in RPI to send only two teams to the post-season.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 12, 2018, 11:28:34 AM
Belmont was in a similar position last season where they won the regular season but they lost in the tourney.
I've heard their HOF Coach Byrd talk about a potential conference switch as recently as this summer and was pretty blunt that they are staying put in the OVC. Belmont doesn't seem to have many aspirations to be in a better conference unless it's a obvious multi-bid league. The MVC currently isn't one but it has the best potential out of any of the Mid-Major conferences not named: A10, MWC, and WCC to be one again. There is rumors that Gonzaga is in talks to move to the MWC which would firmly make the WCC a 1-bid conference and St. Mary's would be forced to change their OOC scheduling ways.
I don't think Belmont is leaving the OVC. It sounds like they want to be the big fish in a very tiny pond. They may welcome the thought of Murray State leaving. The only way I see them leaving is if the OVC's future tv rights deal is in a really bad spot and it forces them to look elsewhere.
Who can blame them, we are now in the MVC which is a 1 bid league in a year where they are #8 in conference RPI.
Really hope we don't regret this move...
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on March 12, 2018, 04:06:27 PM
Really hope we don't regret this move...
With that mentality we'd still be in the old mid-con (SL) playing the Chicago States of the world twice a year, which would be miserable. As a fan I know I won't. I was tired of beating up garbage Horizon League teams.
From a University standpoint and even from a non-basketball recruiting viewpoint, who you hang around with matters. We are hanging with Drake, Evansville, Loyola, Bradley, Northern Iowa, Illinois State etc when we used to hang with Youngstown State, Cleveland State, Green Bay, Oakland, Milwaukee etc. Really no comparison academically.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 12, 2018, 04:15:46 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on March 12, 2018, 04:06:27 PM
Really hope we don't regret this move...
With that mentality we'd still be in the old mid-con (SL) playing the Chicago States of the world twice a year, which would be miserable. As a fan I know I won't. I was tired of beating up garbage Horizon League teams.
Change for the sake of change does not make progress. I'll be tepid with this move until we prove we can make the NCAA tournament with relative frequency. For conversation sake I'll say 1x per 4-year class. I think it's reasonable to say that was our trajectory in the HL.
We gave up a lot with this move to the MVC that the HL and Summit gave us.
All I know is that relatively few at-large bids historically come from mid-majors. BUT 100% of the time the Summit and HL send forth their champion.
No matter how I look at this our chances to get 1x in a 4-year class are sizably diminished in the MVC.
Now if the argument is conference longevity and strong conference affiliates with similar institutions then heck yeah it was a great move. I remain cautiously optimistic but certainly not fully with the move to the MVC just yet.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on March 12, 2018, 06:33:13 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on March 12, 2018, 04:15:46 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on March 12, 2018, 04:06:27 PM
Really hope we don't regret this move...
With that mentality we'd still be in the old mid-con (SL) playing the Chicago States of the world twice a year, which would be miserable. As a fan I know I won't. I was tired of beating up garbage Horizon League teams.
Change for the sake of change does not make progress. I'll be tepid with this move until we prove we can make the NCAA tournament with relative frequency. For conversation sake I'll say 1x per 4-year class. I think it's reasonable to say that was our trajectory in the HL.
We gave up a lot with this move to the MVC that the HL and Summit gave us.
All I know is that relatively few at-large bids historically come from mid-majors. BUT 100% of the time the Summit and HL send forth their champion.
No matter how I look at this our chances to get 1x in a 4-year class are sizably diminished in the MVC.
Now if the argument is conference longevity and strong conference affiliates with similar institutions then heck yeah it was a great move. I remain cautiously optimistic but certainly not fully with the move to the MVC just yet.
I don't even know how to respond to this, there is so much more to a conference affiliation other than just basketball and making the tournament and getting clobbered as a 14, 15 or 16 seed.
We didn't get clobbered by Maryland while in the HL auto bid spot. I'm telling you guys, Evansville has had a tough go in this conference. What makes us any different?
I'd welcome learning on this subject. Because on the surface we were fine in the HL. I'm sick of us belittling the likes of Belmont for sticking to the OVC.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on March 12, 2018, 06:48:53 PM
We didn't get clobbered by Maryland while in the HL auto bid spot. I'm telling you guys, Evansville has had a tough go in this conference. What makes us any different?
I'd welcome learning on this subject. Because on the surface we were fine in the HL. I'm sick of us belittling the likes of Belmont for sticking to the OVC.
The Horizon League has regressed pretty far even since that time and I am not sure they can make it back even if we had stayed. Have been on a board at UE and knowing some of the admins there, I can tell you that they feel being in the MVC is a feather in their cap and would not entertain a move down to the HL.
The Horizon League was historically bad this season. The 28th worst out of 32 conferences. The Horizon League served it purpose for us and was a stepping stone but we were ready to move on. We are just naturally a better fit for the MVC when it comes to basketball, academics and it also brings a prestige that the Horizon League doesn't offer. FieldGoodie05, if we didn't take this next step there were plenty of Horizon League schools who would have been thrilled to take our spot.
I conducted an unscientific poll at work (three participants, one with SEC ties, one with Big Ten ties, and one with A-10 ties). I asked, "If you were a Valpo fan, would you rather be in the MVC or the Horizon?" Two people said "The MVC", and the third said "Remind me again who is in the Horizon." When I recited the likes of Wright State, Green Bay, Detroit, etc., he said "Moving to the MVC was the smartest thing Valpo could have done."
Perception does matter, whether in terms of recruiting athletes, recruiting general students, forming rivalries etc. As VU 72 suggests, the academic quality of your conference peers does and should matter. Give Valpo some time, and it will be in the mix for conference championships, which will be even more meaningful in the MVC.
Quote from: craftyrighthander on March 12, 2018, 07:34:13 PM
I conducted an unscientific poll at work (three participants, one with SEC ties, one with Big Ten ties, and one with A-10 ties). I asked, "If you were a Valpo fan, would you rather be in the MVC or the Horizon?" Two people said "The MVC", and the third said "Remind me again who is in the Horizon." When I recited the likes of Wright State, Green Bay, Detroit, etc., he said "Moving to the MVC was the smartest thing Valpo could have done."
Perception does matter, whether in terms of recruiting athletes, recruiting general students, forming rivalries etc. As VU 72 suggests, the academic quality of your conference peers does and should matter. Give Valpo some time, and it will be in the mix for conference championships, which will be even more meaningful in the MVC.
I agree with academic and geography. But if you asked anyone today if they knew about Valpo.....it's because of our NCAA tournament success. It goes hand in hand with public awareness of our school.
I live in Chicago and my co-workers and friends know Valpo mostly due to post season success. Not academics, not anything else. Being a perennial 5th place team in the MVC sure won't help if that's our future.
I'd like to think we are headed for contention but we have a world of work ahead of us to get there. I don't want you all to agree with me tonight, but please respect that this conference move isn't all you protest it to be YET.
and the Valley is 1-0 in the post season as the Bulldogs beat Abilene Christian 80-73, in Overtime.
That is an interesting bracket setup... 4 games today; the winners today play the 4-bye teams in a geographically-re-seeded arrangement; so if San Diego wins tonight, they will probably head to Portland State; if not, Drake will probably head to the coast for that one.
===========================================================
THE CLASSICS on MONDAY, March 12th
Winners will play Wofford (21-12), Northern Colorado (22-12), Portland State (20-13) and Sam Houston State (19-14)
Hugh Durham Classic - CBS Sports Network - Scoreboard
Central Michigan 94, Fort Wayne 89
Lou Henson Classic - CBS Sports Network - Scoreboard
Drake 80, Abilene Christian 73
Jim Phelan Classic- 6:00 PM EST on CBS Sports Network - Scoreboard
Liberty 65, North Carolina A&T 52
Riley Wallace Classic 10:00 PM EST on CBS Sports Network - Scoreboard
Hartford (19-13) @ San Diego (18-13)
============================================
There are 3 other first round games on Wednesday and one Thursday
WEDNESDAY MARCH 14
Saint Francis PA (18-12) @ UIC (17-15)
Niagara (19-13) @ Eastern Michigan (21-12)
Lamar (19-13) @ UTSA (19-14)
THURSDAY MARCH 15
UL Monroe (16-15) @ Austin Peay (18-14)
==========================================
that will reduce the number of teams to 8...
QUARTERFINALS
March 22-25
SEMIFINALS
March 28
7:00 PM EST on CBS Sports Network
9:00 PM EST on CBS Sports Network
CHAMPIONSHIP
March 30
7:00 PM EST on CBS Sports Network
So I thought I read somewhere that Javon's Whitney Young team plays Simeon tomorrow in the super sectional. Is that usually televised?
The Valley also hasn't shown us its full potential yet. This coming year could be big for the conference. Also, I respectfully submit that programs aren't maintained or grown by being overly conservative and never taking risks. Look at the past several examples of realignment for basketball schools:
Butler Xavier and Creighton are better off in the Big East
Loyola is better off in the MVC
Wichita State is better off in the AAC
VCU George Mason and Davidson are better off in the A10 (just remember that Jim Larranaga and Shaka Smart were leaving anyway and coaches of that caliber are hard to replace. These programs are in much better position to attract the talent needed to rebound where they are.)
College of Charleston Elon and Northeastern are better off in the CAA
I close with a quote from a member of the Board of Regents at Murray State: "You are who you compete against" And that's true as a university as well as a program. Bear in mind that no less than Gonzaga is shopping for a new home. I've said it before and I'll say it again If Gonzaga--they of 20 straight tournament appearances and all of those tournament wins--can move, anyone can (and should when presented with an opportunity)
The MVC is a forever conference for a school like Valpo...the HL is not.
Also, I'd think that MVC schools have a better chance at competing in the tournament no matter who they are which means more tournament money making it's way to Valpo even if they're not the ones making it to the tournament every year.
Quote from: FWalum on March 12, 2018, 06:44:38 PMI don't even know how to respond to this, there is so much more to a conference affiliation other than just basketball and making the tournament and getting clobbered as a 14, 15 or 16 seed.
I consider Loyola's 11 seed a definite sign for hope in the MVC. Even if the MVC and the Horizon remain mostly one-bid conferences, that's a better seed than anybody not named Butler got in our time in the Horizon.
(And, Loyola was, what, 2nd out of the at-large? In a year with a lot of MVC parity that's not _too_ bad...)
Now if we can just get Murray State and Belmont to come aboard we'd be in business
Quote from: crusader05 on March 13, 2018, 08:34:58 AM
Also, I'd think that MVC schools have a better chance at competing in the tournament no matter who they are which means more tournament money making it's way to Valpo even if they're not the ones making it to the tournament every year.
Or any year if we are not careful. Big Big Big move up in competition means we better wear our big boy pants. Because otherwise, welcome obscurity....
Quote from: agibson on March 13, 2018, 11:10:25 AMI consider Loyola's 11 seed a definite sign for hope in the MVC. Even if the MVC and the Horizon remain mostly one-bid conferences, that's a better seed than anybody not named Butler got in our time in the Horizon.
Loyola of the 8'th best conference, was under seeded. They lost 3 of 5 games without their MVC Player Of The Year Clayton Custer. This is supposed to be taken into account for seeding. I have seen zero evidence that the committee even considered it.
Don't get me wrong the 11 was not unexpected and I like their chances against Miami. BUT they and we should take this as an insult. Remember that next year or 2020 or both, we could be wearing their shoes and I will guarantee we would be screaming about the same circumstances.
Go Ramblers!
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on March 13, 2018, 01:10:14 PM
Quote from: crusader05 on March 13, 2018, 08:34:58 AM
Also, I'd think that MVC schools have a better chance at competing in the tournament no matter who they are which means more tournament money making it's way to Valpo even if they're not the ones making it to the tournament every year.
Or any year if we are not careful. Big Big Big move up in competition means we better wear our big boy pants. Because otherwise, welcome obscurity....
The thing is many of our previous teams could have always been competitive in the MVC. Valpo was 5-0 vs MVC teams the previous 3 year before joining the conference. Night in and night out, it's more competitive but it's not like our previous teams would be completely outclassed by most MVC teams. I'd be shocked and very disappointed if we are bottom dwellers in the MVC again next season. It was a rebuild year this year where we finished 6-12 without out our best scorer (Burton) and our best player was recovering from mono for a large part of the beginning of the 1st half of the conference season. This team could have very well have finished in the Top half of the league with Burton.
Too many people too scared of change and in need of too many guarantees. Too many fans and programs in small leagues not wanting to move unless it's a surefire multibid league not realizing that their presence will help make it one. Do you think Gonzaga and their fans are worried about whether the Mountain West will be a multibid league every year? No because they know that they are propping up the numbers of the WCC and their presence in the MWC makes it an easy 2-3 bid league without any upsets in the tournament. In much the same way Belmont and Murray State would have not only further enhanced Loyola's resume but also would have had a similar effect on SIU Illinois State etc. Murray State even beat both of those teams meaning they probably would have had an RPI of at least 25-30 with several Q1 wins in the MVC. Our league would have had AT LEAST 5 top 100 schools in Murray Loyola ILST SIU and Bradley and who knowsif it would have been enough to get Evansville or Missouri State (or if Belmont) would have been a sixth or more The Mountain West without Gonzaga had 4 with two knocking right on the door. If Belmont weren't a bunch of yellow-bellied cowards we'd have a league just a shade below if not at parity with the MWC and we'd still be in striking distance even after they added Gonzaga because a lot of the MVC teams would be getting better. This is why I'm constantly blasting Belmont and will continue to do so until they grow a set. Their cowardice isn't just hurting their program (notice they missed both the tournament and the NIT despite a strong nonconference schedule and good wins because everyone except them seems to know that the OVC sucks so much for the big fish small pond theory) but also the MVC and mid majors and even college basketball as a whole. A program and institution of Belmont's caliber belongs among other top flight regional colleges not with a bunch of Podunk Tennessee schools in constant APR trouble. Next year we start getting units for that. Belmont has so much money to make by making this move that they can't make in the OVC. Travel and scholarship costs will be more than offset especially if the conference goes to divisions, yet everyone seems to see this but them. My conclusion is that they're either cowards or run by idiots but either way they deserve to be ridiculed because their stance in today's college basketball climate is utterly ridiculous.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 13, 2018, 01:34:47 PMQuote from: FieldGoodie05 on March 13, 2018, 01:10:14 PMQuote from: crusader05 on March 13, 2018, 08:34:58 AMAlso, I'd think that MVC schools have a better chance at competing in the tournament no matter who they are which means more tournament money making it's way to Valpo even if they're not the ones making it to the tournament every year.
Or any year if we are not careful. Big Big Big move up in competition means we better wear our big boy pants. Because otherwise, welcome obscurity....
The thing is many of our previous teams could have always been competitive in the MVC. Valpo was 5-0 vs MVC teams the previous 3 year before joining the conference. Night in and night out, it's more competitive but it's not like our previous teams would be completely outclassed by most MVC teams. I'd be shocked and very disappointed if we are bottom dwellers in the MVC again next season. It was a rebuild year this year where we finished 6-12 without out our best scorer (Burton) and our best player was recovering from mono for a large part of the beginning of the 1st half of the conference season. This team could have very well have finished in the Top half of the league with Burton.
Absolutely. Top half of the league was what? 9-9 this year? It only takes a couple crucial buckets to turn the road games at SIU Evansville and Missouri State into wins. Burton himself or the pressure he would have taken off the rest of the team would very likely have found those buckets and more for us. At a minimum we're likely right there with Bradley for the 5 seed. If you believe as I do that Burton's absence also contributed to those slow starts that doomed us against Indiana State Bradley and Evansville the first time aeouar in league play then we could very possibly have turned those into wins as well. If that happens we jump up to second in the conference at 21-11 RPI somewhere around 100 (we probably could have snatched away at least one UNI game and we surely don't lose to Riverside.) and end up 2nd in the MVC.MAnd all of this despite Walkers mono and getting nothing from several players throughout much of the year. Burtons loss was huge probably the biggest factor in the teamst struggles by far
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 13, 2018, 02:25:04 PM
Too many people too scared of change and in need of too many guarantees. Too many fans and programs in small leagues not wanting to move unless it's a surefire multibid league not realizing that their presence will help make it one. Do you think Gonzaga and their fans are worried about whether the Mountain West will be a multibid league every year? No because they know that they are propping up the numbers of the WCC and their presence in the MWC makes it an easy 2-3 bid league without any upsets in the tournament. In much the same way Belmont and Murray State would have not only further enhanced Loyola's resume but also would have had a similar effect on SIU Illinois State etc. Murray State even beat both of those teams meaning they probably would have had an RPI of at least 25-30 with several Q1 wins in the MVC. Our league would have had AT LEAST 5 top 100 schools in Murray Loyola ILST SIU and Bradley and who knowsif it would have been enough to get Evansville or Missouri State (or if Belmont) would have been a sixth or more The Mountain West without Gonzaga had 4 with two knocking right on the door. If Belmont weren't a bunch of yellow-bellied cowards we'd have a league just a shade below if not at parity with the MWC and we'd still be in striking distance even after they added Gonzaga because a lot of the MVC teams would be getting better. This is why I'm constantly blasting Belmont and will continue to do so until they grow a set. Their cowardice isn't just hurting their program (notice they missed both the tournament and the NIT despite a strong nonconference schedule and good wins because everyone except them seems to know that the OVC sucks so much for the big fish small pond theory) but also the MVC and mid majors and even college basketball as a whole. A program and institution of Belmont's caliber belongs among other top flight regional colleges not with a bunch of Podunk Tennessee schools in constant APR trouble. Next year we start getting units for that. Belmont has so much money to make by making this move that they can't make in the OVC. Travel and scholarship costs will be more than offset especially if the conference goes to divisions, yet everyone seems to see this but them. My conclusion is that they're either cowards or run by idiots but either way they deserve to be ridiculed because their stance in today's college basketball climate is utterly ridiculous.
Your entitled to your wrong opinion 😜
It will take at least five years to fully evaluate the move to the MVC. In the short-term, I see more Pros than Cons:
Pros:
MVC is 8th ranked conference in Men's Basketball.
Better competition.
MVC better overall fan support.
MVC "Arch Madness" far surpasses the Horizon tourney.
MVC has stronger reputation in other sports (e.g., Women's basketball, volleyball, baseball)
Road trip possibilities are better for Valpo fans and students in MVC. Wouldn't you rather road trip to a game at Illinois State instead of Cleveland State?
MVC has more TV games.
MVC has better academics.
Cons:
Valpo finished 10th in its first year. Frankly, that's all I see.
For some of us younger fans, Evansville since the MVC is a cautionary tale. Read a bit on their dominance in D2 and the original HL. Then see 1 NCAA appearance while in the MVC since 1999.
Maybe our Evansville guest can chime in on his experience. We are very similar programs I think, as a student of history I'd welcome others Valpo fans who know more here.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evansville_Purple_Aces_men's_basketball (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evansville_Purple_Aces_men's_basketball)
Before there were NCAA divisions there was a University and Small College split. E'ville was a monster in the Small College arena. Over time they were not able to sustain that dominance. They have the arena, past history and rabid fans to turn this around.
The Evansville message board is talking about the idea of hiring away Coach Ragland in a lateral move to become their assistant to whoever their new Head Coach would be. Coach Rags is a Evansville native but would he really make that lateral move just get closer to home? I'd think if he interviews for the Head Coaching job he wouldn't want to be an assistant there unless the new head coach made him the associate HC and gave him a pay raise. I hope Coach Ragland doesn't leave this offseason. He's valuable member of our program and would be a blow if we lost him.
http://www.purpleacesfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1320
Quote from: VU2014 on March 14, 2018, 11:09:22 AM
The Evansville message board is talking about the idea of hiring away Coach Ragland in a lateral move to become their assistant to whoever their new Head Coach would be. Coach Rags is a Evansville native but would he really make that lateral move just get closer to home? I'd think if he interviews for the Head Coaching job he wouldn't want to be an assistant there unless the new head coach made him the associate HC and gave him a pay raise. I hope Coach Ragland doesn't leave this offseason. He's valuable member of our program and would be a blow if we lost him.
http://www.purpleacesfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1320
Interesting to see that Greg Tonagel's name was also mentioned in the Courier & Press article.
As to E'ville, I wrote this around January 19:
"Just a quick comment on this. Evansville was never in the Horizon. It was in the old MCC (Midwestern Cities Conference), which was a multi-bid league for many years and had some of the best basketball in the Midwest during the mid-late 1980s thru about early 1990s. It then broke apart with teams going to the new Horizon League (with poached AMCU-8 schools Green Bay, Milwaukee, Wright State, CSU), and some going other places like E-Ville to the MVC, SLU to the Great Midwest/Conf USA. Maybe E-ville should have went with the HL, but those teams of the late 80s/early 90s were really good. Jim Crews was the head coach through that era, and in 88-89 they had a young Chris Mack (who would later transfer to X), Scott Hafner, Olaf Blab (yes, uwe's brother), in 91-92 they had Parrish Casebier averaging 25 and Scott Shreffler who was one of the better all-around guards in those days who started for 4 years, and 92-93 had Parrish and Scott. Scott also appeared in Blue Chips (like Shane Hammink's Dad). The MCC was one of the most competitive leagues around and we went to a lot of X games during that period along with the conference tourneys held at Dayton. Dayton, X, SLU, EVille, Detroit, Loyola all had outstanding players, teams and coaches. X was running off multiple NCAA bids with guys like Larkin, Ty Hill, Derek Strong, Jamal Walker etc. Butler was in the conference and rebuilding (later with Barry Collier as coach). So, Eville's issues aren't all because it moved to MVC. So, I'm not sure that is the strongest comparison to where we are now or will be. We need to be competing against like minded schools that helps raise our competitiveness. Remember there were a lot less D1 schools in those days too."
The Evansville tradition goes back to Jerry Sloan in the 1960s. Jim Crews was a major factor in E'Ville 1980s-90s competitiveness. It is an example that a strong coach can impact a program and a weak coach can set it back at the mid-major level. The Marty Simmons Experiment did not reinvigorate the program although it continues to play good basketball (hey remember Bouchie?). Anyway, E'Ville has that critical decision to make -- go young coach to build or find a retread. Tonagel would be a great hire because he has a system, knows the state, and can flat out coach. But this is the dilemma that we faced 2 years ago when we ran out of Drews. Lottich is the young coach out of your coaching tree (the Butler Way if you will). We also have nearly 25 years of success (with a couple of down rebuilding seasons). Evansville has a "history," but like UCLA and some other schools that were coach-dependent, the coach leaves and it can become barren land for many years. For the conference, we hope that they make the right hire. A Tonagel hire is a testament to what he has built at IWU, but it is also an indication that the Valpo Way and the Drew coaching tree are spreading their roots. With Bryce, Scott, Matt and possible Greg and Roger getting HC gigs, that will be 5 D1 men's head coaches currently from this program with Jake Diebler certain to be headed to a MAC or HL school at some point for his first HC gig.
What seems to be Evansville's greatest problem since their glory days has been coaching and recruiting. Jim Crews had some good success earlier in his tenure at Evansville during the late 80's/early 90's but success curtailed. Steve Merfeld sounds like he was a awful hire. Marty Simmons had a few good seasons but never achieve a great amount of conference regular season success in the MVC in his 11 seasons there. Apparently Evansville has the smallest basketball budget in the MVC. Marty was only make $250,000 (which is a small salary at this level of basketball).
I'm not sure having a rich basketball history at the D2 level in the 50s/60s/70s will help them in the hiring process outside of candidates native to the area or from the greater Indiana area.
The candidate with the most smoke around his name is Calbert Cheaney. I understand the connection to the area but he has only a few years of experience in coaching, but the same could have been said about Coach Lottich but the jury is still out on if Coach Lottich was the right hire even if there has been some positive signs the last 2 seasons.
If Tonagel emerges as the dark-horse winner for the Evansville job and he carried over his success from the NAIA level to D1/MVC and end up consistently beat Valpo, then someone in our Athletics Department would have egg all over their face. There are a lot of "ifs" in that scenario but it would be a really terrible look if that scenario played out.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 14, 2018, 01:38:29 PMApparently Evansville has the smallest basketball budget in the MVC.
This is incorrect, they were 4th in the most recent reporting from 2015. Take out Wichita State and they are actually 3rd. They certainly were not last. I am not sure if new numbers are out, but I doubt they would have dropped very far.
2015 men's basketball budgets
Missouri Valley
$6,920,933, Wichita State
$3,128,419, Bradley
$2,899,699, Northern Iowa
$2,899,667, Evansville
$2,745,553, Loyola
$2,666,213, Valparaiso
$2,472,212, Drake
$2,452,961, Illinois State
$2,279,917, Missouri State
$2,241,413, Southern Illinois
$1,832,975, Indiana State
Quote from: FWalum on March 14, 2018, 05:00:41 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on March 14, 2018, 01:38:29 PMApparently Evansville has the smallest basketball budget in the MVC.
This is incorrect, they were 4th in the most recent reporting from 2015. Take out Wichita State and they are actually 3rd. They certainly were not last. I am not sure if new numbers are out, but I doubt they would have dropped very far.
2015 men's basketball budgets
Missouri Valley
$6,920,933, Wichita State
$3,128,419, Bradley
$2,899,699, Northern Iowa
$2,899,667, Evansville
$2,745,553, Loyola
$2,666,213, Valparaiso
$2,472,212, Drake
$2,452,961, Illinois State
$2,279,917, Missouri State
$2,241,413, Southern Illinois
$1,832,975, Indiana State
Interesting that 5 of the top 6 spenders are private -- but that's probably due to the higher tuition, R&B, and fees incurred at a private university compared to state schools.
Team budgets include the cost of each of the 12 student-athletes scholarships to attend school for 1 years tuition, room and board fees, books, meal plans, stipends, etc. Private schools generally cost more to attend then public schools. That's what causes the skew.
Some Missouri State news. Roger Powell is no longer in consideration for the MSU head coaching job. It sounds like it was on Roger's end who pulled his name from consideration.
https://twitter.com/joehoopsreport/status/973230087230377984
I would have stayed put as well, with the amount of 5 star recruits coming in next season. He will have better opportunities after that season.
Interesting news
https://twitter.com/CoachingChanges/status/974377345892143106
check this out lol
https://twitter.com/WyattWheeler_NL/status/974370317501165569
https://twitter.com/CoachingChanges/status/974370697215660032
https://twitter.com/CoachingChanges/status/974371156831727616
LOYOLA WINS AT THE BUZZER!!!! Fantastic effort!! :cheers:
Fantastic win for Loyola. Hung tough the entire game and their guy made the shot of the tournament.
Quote from: valpotx on March 15, 2018, 12:27:36 PM
I would have stayed put as well, with the amount of 5 star recruits coming in next season. He will have better opportunities after that season.
I'm wondering if the Vandy Associate HC salary would be greater than MVC new HC salary.
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 15, 2018, 04:35:07 PM
Fantastic win for Loyola. Hung tough the entire game and their guy made the shot of the tournament.
W for the MVC!!! Has Loyola had success in NCAA tournament in the past?
Smits wasn't even in Dallas and Krutwig still scored on him three times.
Extremely Happy for Loyola and the MVC. I get so So SO tired of listening to the P5 bull crap during this tournament that it is wonderful to shut them up. Kept referring to Loyola as the underdog not once mentioning that they were virtually ranked even with Miami (above in some) in most of the metrics. :cheers: :clap: :thewave:
So happy to be in the MVC!!
Quote from: FWalum on March 15, 2018, 04:50:07 PM
Extremely Happy for Loyola and the MVC. I get so So SO tired of listening to the P5 bull crap during this tournament that it is wonderful to shut them up. Kept referring to Loyola as the underdog not once mentioning that they were virtually ranked even with Miami (above in some) in most of the metrics. :cheers: :clap: :thewave:
So happy to be in the MVC!!
Amen! Well said. Can't wait for the JFL matchup vs Loyola' s Lucas Williamson the next few years. I think they were teammates at WY in high school. Fun stuff!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
Awesome win for Loyola!
Quote from: covufan on March 15, 2018, 04:38:34 PM
Quote from: valpotx on March 15, 2018, 12:27:36 PM
I would have stayed put as well, with the amount of 5 star recruits coming in next season. He will have better opportunities after that season.
I'm wondering if the Vandy Associate HC salary would be greater than MVC new HC salary.
I'm guessing Coach Powell got a nice raise to stick around for another year or 2. He has a chance to boost his stock if Vandy goes on a deep run the next few years.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on March 15, 2018, 04:39:20 PM
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 15, 2018, 04:35:07 PM
Fantastic win for Loyola. Hung tough the entire game and their guy made the shot of the tournament.
W for the MVC!!! Has Loyola had success in NCAA tournament in the past?
Sure have! Won the whole thing in 1963!! You mean other than that?? :lol: :lol:
Sweet 16 in 1985 as well.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 15, 2018, 06:20:33 PM
Sweet 16 in 1985 as well.
[/b]
True but haven't been in the tournament since then.
Tonight definitively closes the debate on two things:
1. Loyola was a fantastic addition to the MVC and shows the tremendous quality and foresight of the conference leadership.
2. The move to the MVC was absolutely the right move for Valpo. This could be us in a couple years. Every MVC school needs to have this same mentality. This shows what belief and commitment to your program can accomplish.
Quote from: vu72 on March 15, 2018, 06:01:50 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on March 15, 2018, 04:39:20 PM
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 15, 2018, 04:35:07 PM
Fantastic win for Loyola. Hung tough the entire game and their guy made the shot of the tournament.
W for the MVC!!! Has Loyola had success in NCAA tournament in the past?
Sure have! Won the whole thing in 1963!! You mean other than that?? :lol: :lol:
I remember listening to that game on the radio because I don't think it was even televised. I mean why else would dad and I and a couple of my brothers have been huddled around a radio? Ok yes we were a catholic family. ;)
Quote from: VU2014 on March 13, 2018, 01:34:47 PMQuote from: FieldGoodie05 on March 13, 2018, 01:10:14 PMQuote from: crusader05 on March 13, 2018, 08:34:58 AMAlso, I'd think that MVC schools have a better chance at competing in the tournament no matter who they are which means more tournament money making it's way to Valpo even if they're not the ones making it to the tournament every year.
Or any year if we are not careful. Big Big Big move up in competition means we better wear our big boy pants. Because otherwise, welcome obscurity....
The thing is many of our previous teams could have always been competitive in the MVC. Valpo was 5-0 vs MVC teams the previous 3 year before joining the conference. Night in and night out, it's more competitive but it's not like our previous teams would be completely outclassed by most MVC teams. I'd be shocked and very disappointed if we are bottom dwellers in the MVC again next season. It was a rebuild year this year where we finished 6-12 without out our best scorer (Burton) and our best player was recovering from mono for a large part of the beginning of the 1st half of the conference season. This team could have very well have finished in the Top half of the league with Burton.
The Peters teams would all have been very competitive in the MVC. Timing of the move from a basketball competitiveness standpoint wasn't good as this was a weak Valpo squad and would have been in the HL as well. However you have to go when you have to go. It'll take a couple of years to move through the MVC but it likely would have in the HL as well. The MVC is clearly the better conference to be in.
Interesting news re: Evansville Ryan Taylor. Wonder if he'd be interested in playing grad transfer year close to home, still in MVC at Valpo? Or if Valpo would have interest? He's from Michigan City I believe. Would pair nicely with Fazekas and take some pressure off JFL his frosh year. Would he qualify as a "home run" or is our need for a PF too great at this point?
Per twitter account of Jeff Goodman....
"Evansville guard Ryan Taylor told ESPN he will explore other options and possibility of transferring. Led the Missouri Valley in scoring this season at 21.2. Immediately eligible as a grad transfer."
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First off I think he's going to land at a high major school but I wouldn't take Taylor because I wouldn't want to set a precedent of taking in other MVC Team's transfers. It's also rare to see in conference transfers, but it did happened in the MVC last season: Matt Chastain transferred from Loyola to Illinois State and redshirted last season. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure I remember hearing they didn't have a scholarship for him so he paid out of pocket this season.
I just don't see it happening. Another thing to factor is that Taylor's offensive numbers are inflated because the system Evansville ran under Marty Simmons. Most of the offense ran through one key offensive player every season. He'll be a grad transfer so he can go wherever he wants with no restrictions but I wouldn't think he'll transfer here.
He should try and find the best fit possible and not just go somewhere where he'll be berried on the bench. Look at what happened to Mark Alstork this season... an absolute disaster of a grad transfer scenario. It probably hurt his pro prospects. He should have just stayed at Wright State...
Quote from: VU2014 on March 15, 2018, 08:39:20 PM
First off I think he's going to land at a high major school but I wouldn't take Taylor because I wouldn't want to set a precedent of taking in other MVC Team's transfers. It's also rare to see in conference transfers, but it did happened in the MVC last season: Matt Chastain transferred from Loyola to Illinois State and redshirted last season. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure I remember hearing they didn't have a scholarship for him so he paid out of pocket this season.
I just don't see it happening. Another thing to factor is that Taylor's offensive numbers are inflated because the system Evansville ran under Marty Simmons. Most of the offense ran through one key offensive player every season. He'll be a grad transfer so he can go wherever he wants with no restrictions but I wouldn't think he'll transfer here.
He should try and find the best fit possible and not just go somewhere where he'll be berried on the bench. Look at what happened to Mark Alstork this season... an absolute disaster of a grad transfer scenario. It probably hurt his pro prospects. He should have just stayed at Wright State...
Good points.VU2014. I think our need at PF is far greater than at SG. I think our shooting guard position will be fine with Javon, Evelyn, and Golder (if necessary).
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Loyola has had a great basketball history as their 1963 season says it all.
It's been a while since Loyola has been good and if you talk to any of their alums they'll tell you the basketball culture was lost for quite a while but this season could be the start of a revival. They've been trying like hell to get members from the community to support the team and they have been unsuccessful for the most part up until their couple final few home games. They sold out Gentile for the first time years on their senior night. They were still really struggling to drive turnout this season. They've been very successful at driving the student turnout the last 2 seasons though. Loyola has received more publicity with Chicago sports media the last 2 weeks then they have the last 2 decades combined. I'm not even exaggerating. They've had an article on the front page of the Chicago Tribune pretty much every day for the last week. If Porter Moser sticks around they're going to receive a huge local recruiting boost from all of this.
I have to say that I am very happy for Loyola and their performance today. They have decent players and very poised and well coached. It's great for the MVC and it is great for Chicago college basketball which desperately needs a boost. It may also provide a spark in the behind of the DePaul administration to make desperately needed changes.
Worth the read. The Journal Star's columnist Kirk Wessler that covers the Valley wrote about Bradley not accepting a Invitation to the CBI/CIT. Valpo turned down a invitation to the CBI and there was some debate if it was worth paying to play a few more games.
http://www.pjstar.com/sports/20180315/wessler-bradley-basketball-wise-to-avoid-cbi-and-cit
Quote from: VU2014 on March 16, 2018, 09:05:52 AM
Worth the read. The Journal Star's columnist Kirk Wessler that covers the Valley wrote about Bradley not accepting a Invitation to the CBI/CIT. Valpo turned down a invitation to the CBI and there was some debate if it was worth paying to play a few more games.
http://www.pjstar.com/sports/20180315/wessler-bradley-basketball-wise-to-avoid-cbi-and-cit
'Happening Hoops' is trying pick a fight with a very well respected MVC and HOF journalist, because he disagrees with his article. :crazy:
https://twitter.com/happeninghoops/status/974665523110793217
https://twitter.com/happeninghoops/status/974666211173773313
https://twitter.com/KirkWessler/status/974668993213747201
God I wish those guys would just shut up sometimes. They make Valpo students and fans look so bad every time they open their mouths. Bradley is a respected program with a rich tradition and a proud history in which they have accomplished much. They don't need some kid from the new team on the block telling them how to run a program. Frankly the attitude Wessler espouses in his article is the correct one for an MVC school to have. Our goals as programs should be an RPI comfortably inside the top 100 and an NIT berth at minimum.
Although I believe in the merits of additional games and practice time Wessler's article was fair and raised many valid points worthy of consideration. Paying to play sucks and so does the competition most of the time. I suspect they didn't even read the article before spouting off. Great "journalism" guys. It's clear that these guys have no respect whatsoever for history, tradition, or for their elders within the profession. Once again these guys portray the Valpo fanbase in a bad light. This is AT LEAST the third time they've done so this year and it's starting to get upsetting.
It just shows how broken the system is
https://twitter.com/ESPNLunardi/status/974299538197549058
Did they even do at large back then?
Quote from: M on March 17, 2018, 08:19:33 AMDid they even do at large back then?
In '79 there were 40 teams with 1-6 having first round byes and, for example, 7-10 and 8-9 playing for the pleasure of facing 1 and 2. That was they year St. John's and Penn beat Duke and North Carolina on the same day. They ended up playing each other in the Regional Final with Penn winning and eventually getting destroyed by Magic.
Loyola wins!!! It sure is nice to have your conference teams actually win games and not just get close!! They are really a well coached team. :cheers:
Moser will probably be gone now. Nonetheless, congrats to Loyola!!
Quote from: valpotx on March 17, 2018, 07:43:43 PM
Moser will probably be gone now. Nonetheless, congrats to Loyola!!
I could see him sticking around for 1 more season. I could imagine he'll interview for a few jobs but if he doesn't find a fit this offseason or get the right offer he may just sign a massive extension (for this level) and wait till next offseason. No matter what he's going to get PAID. Maybe he signs a similar deal as Ben Jacobson ($1 million per year) this offseason with a nice buyout for Loyola. I'd imagine Loyola's President and AD have been on the phone with their biggest booster pleading for them to step up (which they have in the recent past with the Gentile reno/new practice facility).
Porter Moser: (https://media.giphy.com/media/9HQRIttS5C4Za/giphy.gif)
Loyola President says they want to pay competitively to keep good people.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-spt-loyola-porter-moser-haugh-20180316-story.html
Pretty crazy to think how far they've come since the Horizon League days and since their first few seasons in the MVC. Side Note: that's a crazy amount of $ to spend on 4 CBI tournaments games...
https://twitter.com/darrenrovell/status/975163903306092549
Quote from: VU2014 on December 23, 2017, 11:35:01 AM
Yeah I normally don't care what others think but I'd be lying if I didn't want us to put our best foot forward and show we belong this season to other Valley fans. Loyola was literally catching grief for 4 years for their subpar performance in the league. Now they're finally take that next step as a program this season after Porter Moser started recruiting at a higher level and their University really started investing in their program with renovations to Gentile and boosted their budget over time. He'll definitely be eating crow in the future once we get healthy and this young team gets more experience playing together under its belt.
And now Moser and the Ramblers have matched Valpo's best run ever with 2 wins in the Big Dance, which btw is very financially rewarding for the whole MVC. Maybe not quite the windfall that Wichita State's runs in the NCAA tournament did for the Valley but Doug Elgin has to be very satisfied with the way things turned out for the Valley this season after losing the Shockers.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 17, 2018, 08:23:55 PMI'd imagine Loyola's President and AD have been on the phone with their biggest booster pleading for them to step up (which they have in the recent past with the Gentile reno/new practice facility).
Who does Sister Jean know or has influenced with all her recent TV time to donate big bucks to Loyola's athletic budget for the head coaching salary? I think it was mentioned that Moser is a really great fit at Loyola. Those condos with Lake Michigan views on the beach in Rogers Park are certainly not cheap.
Can't we find some a reverend, a guildy lady or someone from Deaconess to give Valpo a boost from up above?
As for Moser, it will be interesting, but Loyola has some wealthy alums that may be able to sweeten the post. I am also assuming that he is competent enough not to take a potential opening at DePaul.
Congrats to the Loyola Ramblers as they have awaken college basketball in Chicago.
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 18, 2018, 08:42:24 AM
Can't we find some a reverend, a guildy lady or someone from Deaconess to give Valpo a boost from up above?
Catholics only.
Quote from: vu72 on March 17, 2018, 07:22:50 PM
Loyola wins!!! It sure is nice to have your conference teams actually win games and not just get close!! They are really a well coached team. :cheers:
Valpo will definitely benefit from Loyola's run ... both in terms of $ and recognition for the MVC! A rising tide raises all boats.
In the Horizon, Valpo got none of that ... teams just laid eggs when they got to the tourney. Just another reason why the move made so much sense.
Agreed, but I want to see Valpo contribute and bring wins, success and cash to the MVC. We do not want To be a leach like DePaul in the Big East
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 18, 2018, 08:42:24 AM
Can't we find some a reverend, a guildy lady or someone from Deaconess to give Valpo a boost from up above?
Well, my aunt should fill the bill. 97 years old, hasn't missed a home game in 50 years and, although not clergy, she was a Lutheran school teacher and her dad was a pastor. Close enough?
https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-1/c27.0.160.160/p160x160/10489797_10202373911108252_6578604408106070776_n.jpg?oh=21e7dd8ee3bf0463016583fdf27c743b&oe=5B4855A0
Mark Adams compiled the budgets in the MVC and we are currently the 7th highest budget in the MVC and the lowest among our fellow private institution in the MVC. Public schools tend to have lower budgets because the cost of attending is lower and if they recruit a kid from their home state the scholarship counts as 'in-state' tuition, so they incur some saving there that probably can be redirected to other places like recruiting, equipment, accommodations, coaching salaries, etc.
https://twitter.com/EnthusiAdams/status/975218330146615296
I thought I heard in recent past years that P. Moser was on the hot seat at Loyola. They were bottom feeders when they joined the MAC with bad teams, poor attendance, etc. Now when he gets one good club he is someone everyone wants? What about all those past years when they sucked?
Quote from: valpo64 on March 18, 2018, 07:04:02 PM
I thought I heard in recent past years that P. Moser was on the hot seat at Loyola. They were bottom feeders when they joined the MAC with bad teams, poor attendance, etc. Now when he gets one good club he is someone everyone wants? What about all those past years when they sucked?
Things have really turned around the last 2 seasons. Last season you could start to see signs that Loyola was developing a young core and they lost a significant player in Doyle but replaced him by adding Custer (red-shirt Transfer), Townes (red-shirt transfer), Krutwig (impact freshman), and Lucas Williamson (impact freshman). They had a major talent influx this season and they learned Moser's system. Honestly it is really impressive to see the ball movement on that team. They have a lot of experience on that team but they've have received major production from their freshman.
Porter Moser has went on the record and said he's a better coach now then when he started with Loyola.
Some news on the Evansville head coaching search. It sounds like E-ville has conducted it's first round of phone interviews and Valpo assistant David Ragland was one of the handful of candidates. It seems like Calbert Cheaney is still the frontrunner if they can meet his asking price. EU has some heavy hitting Power Conference assistant coaches on that list.
https://twitter.com/patmhickey/status/975167002972164098
https://twitter.com/patmhickey/status/975370215692357632
Quote from: justducky on March 15, 2018, 07:00:32 PM
Quote from: vu72 on March 15, 2018, 06:01:50 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on March 15, 2018, 04:39:20 PM
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 15, 2018, 04:35:07 PM
Fantastic win for Loyola. Hung tough the entire game and their guy made the shot of the tournament.
W for the MVC!!! Has Loyola had success in NCAA tournament in the past?
Sure have! Won the whole thing in 1963!! You mean other than that?? :lol: :lol:
I remember listening to that game on the radio because I don't think it was even televised. I mean why else would dad and I and a couple of my brothers have been huddled around a radio? Ok yes we were a catholic family. ;)
According to someone on WGN radio, which I listen to online and while traveling, the National Championship game in 1963 was shown tape delayed IN CHICAGO (the home of the Ramblers) at 10:30 p.m. after the news.
I would think Lewis would be a good candidate. I think he played at IU and is from southern Indiana.
Quote from: bbtds on March 19, 2018, 09:48:27 AMAccording to someone on WGN radio, which I listen to online and while traveling, the National Championship game in 1963 was shown tape delayed IN CHICAGO (the home of the Ramblers) at 10:30 p.m. after the news.
They probably didn't want to go head to head with Walt Disney, Jack Benny, Laurence Welk or Ed Sullivan. ::) Might that game have been on WGN radio? I don't think there was a louder or clearer radio signal in Northwest Indiana.
My gut telling me Coach Ragland is going to land the Evansville job.
https://twitter.com/patmhickey/status/975878327780233216
Random but I've looking through the Evansville message board and there is a rumor that the frontrunner Calbert Cheaney wants Coach Ragland as his #1 assistant. Very rarely do you see assistant leave for a lateral move in the same conference. You typically only see mid-major assistants only leave to become P5 assistants for really big $ or take the HC position of a low to mid-major. I be pretty bummed to see Coach Ragland leave.
Unsurprisingly Coach Rags interviewed well. Interesting to hear he may be in play to become an assistant there. It would be really disappointing to see Coach Ragland leave to be an assistant of a in-state conference rival. You can make the case he's the best recruiter on our coaching staff. He was the lead recruiter on many of NKU's best players, he was a strong recruiter at Indiana State and Coach Ragland was the Coach that discovered Markus Golder. He's also a good coach.
https://twitter.com/patmhickey/status/976150792930344960
Quote from: VU2014 on March 19, 2018, 06:41:52 PM
Very rarely do you see assistant leave for a lateral move in the same conference. You typically only see mid-major assistants only leave to become P5 assistants for really big $ or take the HC position of a low to mid-major. I be pretty bummed to see Coach Ragland leave.
Coach Ragland's most recent move was from NKU to Valpo. He had previously been an assistant at BGSU and Indiana State, so he's made several moves between similar positions at similar mid-major schools. I don't know the details behind each move, but it would seem a move to be an assistant at UE wouldn't be "rare" given his history.
EddieCabot, good point. How does the old adage go? "If you want to be a coach you better build a house on wheels"
Quote from: vu72 on March 18, 2018, 01:05:28 PM
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 18, 2018, 08:42:24 AM
Can't we find some a reverend, a guildy lady or someone from Deaconess to give Valpo a boost from up above?
Well, my aunt should fill the bill. 97 years old, hasn't missed a home game in 50 years and, although not clergy, she was a Lutheran school teacher and her dad was a pastor. Close enough?
https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-1/c27.0.160.160/p160x160/10489797_10202373911108252_6578604408106070776_n.jpg?oh=21e7dd8ee3bf0463016583fdf27c743b&oe=5B4855A0
Connie Bretscher could work. I had no idea she was a math major!
Note that she _does_ cheer enthusiastically (I think her "Uh Oh, you're in *foul* trouble" may be my favorite). And is not a chairback.
Quote from: agibson on March 20, 2018, 04:03:45 PM
Quote from: vu72 on March 18, 2018, 01:05:28 PM
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 18, 2018, 08:42:24 AM
Can't we find some a reverend, a guildy lady or someone from Deaconess to give Valpo a boost from up above?
Well, my aunt should fill the bill. 97 years old, hasn't missed a home game in 50 years and, although not clergy, she was a Lutheran school teacher and her dad was a pastor. Close enough?
https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-1/c27.0.160.160/p160x160/10489797_10202373911108252_6578604408106070776_n.jpg?oh=21e7dd8ee3bf0463016583fdf27c743b&oe=5B4855A0
Connie Bretscher could work. I had no idea she was a math major!
Note that she _does_ cheer enthusiastically (I think her "Uh Oh, you're in *foul* trouble" may be my favorite). And is not a chairback.
She recently touch a German class at the U in preparation for her trip to German for the Reformation and until recently also took piano lessons at the U and taught them privately at her home. Did I mention she is my God mother? ;D
https://twitter.com/CoachingChanges/status/976307516408655873
@CoachingChanges has been wrong in the past but they are hearing Walter McCarty will be Evansville's next head coach. He went to the same high school as Coach Ragland, Harrison. There have rumors that Evansville may want Coach Ragland as a Top Assistant. Obviously that will be up to the next head coach and if Coach Ragland will be willing to take an assistant job from the guy they hired over him. That happened in Valpo with Coach Gore but Luke had been with the Program for 14 straight years at that point.
Sounds like a done deal for McCarty. There has been speculation David Ragland might be brought on as his associate HC.
https://twitter.com/patmhickey/status/976489048025059328
https://twitter.com/patmhickey/status/976491032320905222
The Evansville beat reporter Pat Hickey who has been on top of the EU coaching search, says he's coming out with a David Ragland feature piece. Even if he doesn't land the head coaching job it's starting to feel like he may land on that staff one way or another. I hope Coach Rags stays but we may be in the market for a new assistant coach. We should find out soon. The official press conference will be Friday and the new coach will probably have come to a verbal commitment with his assistants by then also.
https://twitter.com/patmhickey/status/976583312121745408
https://twitter.com/patmhickey/status/976585039248011264
https://twitter.com/patmhickey/status/976592885951942656
Could David Ragland win a consolation prize in UE basketball coaching search?
Pat Hickey, pat.hickey@courierpress.com
March 21, 2018
https://www.courierpress.com/story/sports/college/evansville/2018/03/21/could-david-ragland-win-consolation-prize-ue-basketball-coaching-search/446724002/
If anyone is familiar with Naperville, Illinois you'll know how much it has grown in the past 20-30 years. Moser's ancestors were some of the original settlers of that area and bought up tons of farmland. Porter has bucks. He lives and breathes Loyola so for him it's not a money issue. For him it'll be how much he wants to stay close to his roots, which I hear is a lot. I hope he stays, if's he wants bigger pastures to hone his craft so be it but I hope he stays because he and Loyola will make this a better conference and help collective and conference RPI.
Well it's official. Now we're on Coach Rags watch to see if he'll join the Evansville staff. Here's hoping, Coaching Ragland stays with Valpo.
https://twitter.com/patmhickey/status/976834773711716352
Just heard a rumor that Coach Ragland is going to join the Evansville staff. Also WFIE reported Coach Rags could be E-ville's top assistant yesterday. Coach Ragland also just follow the guy who reported it on twitter yesterday
https://twitter.com/Randy14News/status/976539660368404480
Loyola Wins!! More money for Valpo and hopefully some fans show up next year for the games!! Fantastic effort by Loyola! Very well deserved! Much more prestige for the conference!
Losing Ragland is a major blow. Especially because he seems to be the only interpersonal rah-rah guy on staff. Sad. And for Coach L to say he's never been described as mellow or whatever he said on Union Street Hoops.....??? Ya, idk bout that. 🧐
Quote from: VU2010 on March 22, 2018, 08:21:35 PM
Losing Ragland is a major blow. Especially because he seems to be the only interpersonal rah-rah guy on staff. Sad. And for Coach L to say he's never been described as mellow or whatever he said on Union Street Hoops.....??? Ya, idk bout that. 🧐
It's depressing watching you guys argue every little point. Anything positive to say? I'm excited about Valpo future with Fazekas and Freeman / Winnipeg Jet coming to town.
I truly don't care about coaching antics on the sideline. That's just amazingly short sighted to condemn a coach for not getting technical fouls. I'm glad you "pro technical" guys aren't in any control of our program.
Best of luck to Ragland if he moves on, we appreciate his contributions. But he's not a huge reason for success or failure. He's simply an assistant coach.
Anyone notice how little we hear from Gore these days. Is that because Drew never talked to media and Gore was more vocal in his stead? Seems like Lottich is far more media friendly, possible Gore is taking a more reserved public role with this staff.
Quote from: vu72 on March 22, 2018, 08:18:55 PM
Loyola Wins!! More money for Valpo and hopefully some fans show up next year for the games!! Fantastic effort by Loyola! Very well deserved! Much more prestige for the conference!
Great for the conference! I hope Valpo's players are watching and envisioning what could happen over the next few years when they will be the most talented team in the MVC.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on March 22, 2018, 08:36:42 PM
Best of luck to Ragland if he moves on, we appreciate his contributions. But he's not a huge reason for success or failure. He's simply an assistant coach.
Anyone notice how little we hear from Gore these days. Is that because Drew never talked to media and Gore was more vocal in his stead? Seems like Lottich is far more media friendly, possible Gore is taking a more reserved public role with this staff.
We can agree to disagree on assistant coaches not being a major contributors to a teams successes and failures. Assistants are crucial to any programs recruiting, scouting, development and game planning. I'm not saying we're going to fall apart without Coach Ragland but he was quite possibly our best recruiter reputationally and he's also a good coach. I wish him well if he decides to move on. Fingers crossed he ends up staying.
Coach Gore was fairly active during the season doing the pre and postgame interview with during every game. I also remember Coach Gore handling one or two of the media availabilities with Paul and Michael this season. Coaches not involved in the postseason seem to be doing a lot of recruiting right now.
Great win for Loyola! They're going to be playing either Kentucky or Kansas State (playing right now).
Quote from: VU2014 on March 22, 2018, 08:57:54 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on March 22, 2018, 08:36:42 PM
Best of luck to Ragland if he moves on, we appreciate his contributions. But he's not a huge reason for success or failure. He's simply an assistant coach.
Anyone notice how little we hear from Gore these days. Is that because Drew never talked to media and Gore was more vocal in his stead? Seems like Lottich is far more media friendly, possible Gore is taking a more reserved public role with this staff.
We can agree to disagree on assistant coaches not being a major contributors to a teams successes and failures. Assistants are crucial to any programs recruiting, scouting, development and game planning. I'm not saying we're going to fall apart without Coach Ragland but he was quite possibly our best recruiter reputationally and he's also a good coach. I wish him well if he decides to move on. Fingers crossed he ends up staying.
Coach Gore was fairly active during the season doing the pre and postgame interview with during every game. I also remember Coach Gore handling one or two of the media availabilities with Paul and Michael this season. Coaches not involved in the postseason seem to be doing a lot of recruiting right now.
Maybe with the $100,000+ annual proceeds from Loyola's amazing run we can hire an effective assistant to replace Rags 😜😜😜
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on March 22, 2018, 09:20:58 PM
Maybe with the $100,000+ annual proceeds from Loyola's amazing run we can hire an effective assistant to replace Rags 😜😜😜
If we were Arizona we'd probably take that $100k and buy some players ;)
If he leaves does that make him the assistant coaching equivalent of Brandon Wood?
How effective of a recruiter can a guy be skipping from team to team every couple of years?
So how much more does the typical top assistant coach make than the other assistants on a team?
Many of NKU's best players were Coach Ragland's recruits. Also he is the coach that really found Golder who is a hidden gem and was one of the best players by seasons end.
He wouldn't be the BW of assistants because E-ville is his hometown and it sounds like he might be an associate HC and would probably get a raise. Coach Rags is a first class guy.
A 9 versus a 11 in the elite 8! First time ever. A real shot to make the final 4.
Interesting that in the Kenpom rankings Loyola is #34 and Kansas St #39.
Quote from: VU2010 on March 22, 2018, 08:21:35 PMAnd for Coach L to say he's never been described as mellow or whatever he said on Union Street Hoops..... Ya, idk bout that. 🧐
Having interacted with him a bit in person, Lottich's very intense. Seems like a real competitor. He may not jump up and down on the sidelines, or scream at refs, but I think he's got a real edge.
Quote from: agibson on March 23, 2018, 03:46:25 AM
Quote from: VU2010 on March 22, 2018, 08:21:35 PMAnd for Coach L to say he's never been described as mellow or whatever he said on Union Street Hoops..... Ya, idk bout that. 🧐
Having interacted with him a bit in person, Lottich's very intense. Seems like a real competitor. He may not jump up and down on the sidelines, or scream at refs, but I think he's got a real edge.
Second this. He's an intense competitor.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 22, 2018, 10:27:02 PM
Many of NKU's best players were Coach Ragland's recruits. Also he is the coach that really found Golder who is a hidden gem and was one of the best players by seasons end.
He wouldn't be the BW of assistants because E-ville is his hometown and it sounds like he might be an associate HC and would probably get a raise. Coach Rags is a first class guy.
I think losing Ragland would be a blow. Losing Ragland to an in-state rival who is in the conference is an even bigger blow.
Doesn't really matter though. I think Ragland will be a head coach somewhere in the next 5 years based on what everyone says about him. So we were not going to keep him forever. Good for him. Gets to go back home and maybe take over if the current coach doesn't work out. Probably a dream situation for him.
Quote from: SanityLost17 on March 23, 2018, 11:00:01 AM
Gets to go back home and maybe take over if the current coach doesn't work out. Probably a dream situation for him.
I don't think he would get to take over if the current coach doesn't work out. Schools usually don't hire assistants off of staffs that haven't had success. For the heir apparent position to be appealing you need to believe that the current head coach you will be working for will be both successful and interested in moving on when success comes.
Quote from: ml2 on March 23, 2018, 11:27:15 AM
Quote from: SanityLost17 on March 23, 2018, 11:00:01 AM
Gets to go back home and maybe take over if the current coach doesn't work out. Probably a dream situation for him.
I don't think he would get to take over if the current coach doesn't work out. Schools usually don't hire assistants off of staffs that haven't had success. For the heir apparent position to be appealing you need to believe that the current head coach you will be working for will be both successful and interested in moving on when success comes.
Nailed it ML2. McCarty would need to communicate his aspirations to move on from Evansville to a bigger job. Evansville is in a total rebuild and it wouldn't be hard to imagine it taking at least 3, maybe 4-5 years to get back to competing for the top MVC regular season championships. I doubt McCarty is going to be leaving that program for a bigger job anytime soon and Coach Rags would have to be "the coach in waiting" for a long time. I'd think he'd get a opportunity to be a HC somewhere before the Evansville job comes open again. If things don't work out with McCarty 4-5 years down the road you can almost guarantee the Evansville admin is going to hire from within the McCarty coaching ranks.
You can make the case that the Valpo Head Coach job is further along to reopening then the Evansville Head Coaching job. I like Coach Lottich a lot and think he has a bright future but I'm under no elusions that if we reach Loyola type success or go on a deep tourney run, that he's going to stay and take less money to stay at Valpo. Bryce is a native son of Valparaiso and his father is essentially the patriarch of the program and he didn't even stay. Nor do I blame him. Our Athletics Director and Administration has stated publicly that they want to hire their head coaches from within the program if a coach moves on. That helps attract good assistants who know they'll potentially have a shot to take over the program one day. Maybe that factors into Coach Ragland's decision to stay or go.
Young professionals in all careers want to work at a company where they know they have a chance to rise through the ranks and get promoted. Valpo is a program where coaches have a chance to rise or use their positions as a spring board to "bigger jobs". I'm not sure Evansville supplies the same opportunity to him to rise in the near term or is as good of a program to spring board to a "bigger job". Just something to keep in mind.
https://twitter.com/patmhickey/status/977256410038898688
https://twitter.com/rick57614/status/977256091955449856
This tweet makes it sound like it's happening.
https://twitter.com/patmhickey/status/977258941456494593
I want EVERYONE from President Heckler to the University Board; from the Athletic Department to the coaches and athletes themselves; and from the students\alumni to the fans in the community to read this tweet, understand it, and believe in it. This tweet is 100% true. WE NEED YOUR SUPPORT in whatever ways you can give it; and if we get it, someday soon it could be us doing the very thing Loyola is doing right now! Loyola did it in 5 years. How's that for a master plan? Let be just like them! Go Valpo!
https://twitter.com/TribStarTodd/status/977705880010526720
Good to see excitement enthusiasm and the seeds of rejuvenation being planted in Evansville.
http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/mccarty-party-has-started/
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 25, 2018, 04:23:46 PM
Good to see excitement enthusiasm and the seeds of rejuvenation being planted in Evansville.
http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/mccarty-party-has-started/
One thing that was great to hear is that he plans on scheduling tough games in OOC every season. Good to hear because playing good opponents will help their team's RPI even if they are losses in many cases, which will boost the Conference RPI. That seemed to be a major grievance with Marty Simmon's tenure.
Now if only Barry Hinson would do the same at SIU... He has a good team this year... No excuses...
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 25, 2018, 12:11:46 AM
I want EVERYONE from President Heckler to the University Board; from the Athletic Department to the coaches and athletes themselves; and from the students\alumni to the fans in the community to read this tweet, understand it, and believe in it. This tweet is 100% true. WE NEED YOUR SUPPORT in whatever ways you can give it; and if we get it, someday soon it could be us doing the very thing Loyola is doing right now! Loyola did it in 5 years. How's that for a master plan? Let be just like them! Go Valpo!
https://twitter.com/TribStarTodd/status/977705880010526720
Copy and paste into an email to MH.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 25, 2018, 04:49:14 PM
Now if only Barry Hinson would do the same at SIU... He has a good team this year... No excuses...
Barry actually scheduled some solid teams this season like: Louisville, SLU, Murray and the got into the Las Vegas Classic and played Nevada, but SIU always plays their fair share of cupcakes. TBH we did too this season with SIUE and UC Riverside. That UC Riverside could be the low point in my time of being a fan. That game will stick with me till my dying days. Never again should we ever lose to a team like that. Last season schedule was weak for a few reasons that had to do with the conference switch, but on the bright side it sounds like the 2018-19 schedule might be coming along nicely.
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 25, 2018, 05:14:27 PM
https://twitter.com/TribStarTodd/status/977705880010526720
Copy and paste into an email to MH.
[/quote]
Keep us posted if he responds.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 25, 2018, 05:17:53 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 25, 2018, 04:49:14 PM
Now if only Barry Hinson would do the same at SIU... He has a good team this year... No excuses...
Barry actually scheduled some solid teams this season like: Louisville, SLU, Murray and the got into the Las Vegas Classic and played Nevada, but SIU always plays their fair share of cupcakes. TBH we did too this season with SIUE and UC Riverside. That UC Riverside could be the low point in my time of being a fan. That game will stick with me till my dying days. Never again should we ever lose to a team like that. Last season schedule was weak for a few reasons that had to do with the conference switch, but on the bright side it sounds like the 2018-19 schedule might be coming along nicely.
I hope stronger schedules become the new normal around here.
I believe that there are so many Valpo fans that are just waiting to explode, but the dull, conservative and reserved approach to our membership in the MVC is causing negative emotions rather than positive and effusive emotions —- at least among posters on this forum. I also believe that this is a viable indicator that the administration needs to be attentive to.
Higher education has devolved into a business. We CAN enter into that environment and still maintatin our integrity. But we have to enter, and so far, we have historically failed to (1) recognize the opportunity or (2) even if we recognized it, didn't have the guts to act on it. Just my :twocents:
Just heard some good news for Valpo. You'll be able to connect the dots soon enough. FWIW it has nothing to do with recruiting.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 26, 2018, 09:26:31 PM
Just heard some good news for Valpo. You'll be able to connect the dots soon enough. FWIW it has nothing to do with recruiting.
Just maybe a a tiny hint to help us out? Must be our fav topic after recruiting....facilities! [emoji6]
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
Is "Forever Valpo" ending?
Haha I wish it was about facilities, but it sounds like someone will likely be sticking around for at least another season. :)
Quote from: VU2014 on March 26, 2018, 10:02:59 PM
Haha I wish it was about facilities, but it sounds like someone will likely be sticking around for at least another season. :)
Rags is staying!! If so great news!!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk
Quote from: vufan75 on March 26, 2018, 10:05:56 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on March 26, 2018, 10:02:59 PM
Haha I wish it was about facilities, but it sounds like someone will likely be sticking around for at least another season. :)
Rags is staying!! If so great news!!
Ragland must have seen that as many as there are being invited to the Purple McCarty Party not many will be showing up and the better situation is not in the southwest part of the state but to stay in the northwest part of the state.
Big congratulations to the MVC's foresight in choosing Loyola to join the conference 5 years ago. It was a big risk and for a while it looked like they made a mistake, but now the MVC has a post WSU/Creighton final 4 team. Somebody in the front office needs a raise!
NOW, I am going to make an attempt to argue that it was still a mistake to chose Loyola over Valparaiso 5 years ago.
1. Valpo was much further along in "The Process" than Loyola was at the time.
2. Although I do not believe any Valpo team in the last 5 years was capable of making the final 4, I do believe our team from 2 years ago was a sweet 16 team and I believe that the added bonus of recruiting to the MVC instead of the Horizon might have given us a 2nd team capable of making the tournament because lets face it, 5 years of recruiting The Valley would have made us better last year and this year and that is a FACT.
3. Also, because Valpo was further along in "The Process", I think that having 2 quality games against Valpo last year might have been just enough to push Illinois State into the tournament and give the MVC multiple bids last year as well as the year before when Valpo would have had just enough of a scheduling bump to be an at large team during Peter's junior season. Not to mention the fact that I think we would have been better this year, but lets say we were still in rebuilt mode this year after Peter's departure.
4. Perhaps a multi-bid league year in and year out make Wichita's decision to leave harder. Same goes for Bryce if things are still humming along here. You just never know.
I know, all of my opinions are taking some liberties on things that never happened. But it doesn't change the fact there was a 3 year period there that we were really really good and anybody who tries to dispute that is a moron. Definitely MVC caliber (WE WERE NOT YET THERE THIS YEAR IN A REBUILDING YEAR). But ask yourself where the MVC would be today if they chose Valpo instead of Loyola. To me the answer is that they WOULD NOT have a final 4 team, but what they would have are several multi-bid seasons with mutiple round of 32 and sweet 16 teams and IN THE AGGREGATE would have just as much NCAA money to distribute and a better conference top to bottom.
Now, perhaps with the choice of Loyola going forward the MVC is better off having chosen Loyola based on what we have seen this year. However, over the last 5 years it was still a mistake.
Boy I hate to beat a dead horse. But don't you think it was commitment to facilities? They had a key donor lined up to do big things for them.
And the MVC said it was a TV market decision too. If it was all current hoops performance they would have picked MSU or Valpo. Easier fly-in than Valpo for travel too.
But it all turned out best for ALL!
It's silly to rehash the MVC's decision to take Loyola over us 5 years ago. Clearly Loyola has proven itself over time to be a good addition even if they were a punching bag for the rest of the MVC their first few years. Clearly they've more then made up for it. Valpo probably would have returned the most immediate return back in 2012 but this really is a pointless exercise at this point. I think we'll prove in time to be a good addition to the conference.
Quote from: crusadermoe on March 27, 2018, 11:37:30 AM
Boy I hate to beat a dead horse. But don't you think it was commitment to facilities? They had a key donor lined up to do big things for them.
Getting their facilities renovated had a huge impact on their recruiting, as well as being in the MVC. Being in the MVC opens doors to recruits that previously wouldn't have considered you if you were in the Horizon League.
Brian Wardle just got a contract extension after 3 seasons at Bradley. They locked him up (unless a P5 is willing to buy him out) till 2022-23.
https://twitter.com/DaveReynolds2/status/978674989984632832
Wardle was making $465,427 per year in his original contract. Coach Lottich is going to be going into his 3rd season as the head coach next season. Do you think the University tries to give him a similar extension to Wardle? I forgot when Bryce signed his extension. I believe it was after his 3rd season. I think if we have a strong year next year they'll try and sign him to a fair extension with a good solid buyout protection.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 27, 2018, 12:13:31 PM
Brian Wardle just got a contract extension after 3 seasons at Bradley. They locked him up (unless a P5 is willing to buy him out) till 2022-23.
https://twitter.com/DaveReynolds2/status/978674989984632832
Wardle was making $465,427 per year in his original contract. Coach Lottich is going to be going into his 3rd season as the head coach next season. Do you think the University tries to give him a similar extension to Wardle? I forgot when Bryce signed his extension. I believe it was after his 3rd season. I think if we have a strong year next year they'll try and sign him to a fair extension with good a solid buyout protection.
With the teams Valpo will have the next two years (and beyond), the university would be smart to lock him up now before he becomes a "hot candidate" after making tourney runs.
Quote from: EddieCabot on March 27, 2018, 12:18:45 PMWith the teams Valpo will have the next two years (and beyond), the university would be smart to lock him up now before he becomes a "hot candidate" after making tourney runs.
I believe our MVC projected NCAA revenue share is already $800,000+ from the Loyola run. If we think Matt is on the right track (and I do) then some of this bonus needs to be steered in his direction.
If the team makes the strides we think they're capable of next year, I think a 3-5 year extension is appropriate.
A midwest Big East job just opened up. Maybe this is a gig that could interest Porter Moser if they offered. From all his interviews he's making it sounds like he's coming back. We'll see.
https://twitter.com/CoachChrisMack/status/978718866338713601
Quote from: SanityLost17 on March 27, 2018, 10:45:23 AM
Big congratulations to the MVC's foresight in choosing Loyola to join the conference 5 years ago. It was a big risk and for a while it looked like they made a mistake, but now the MVC has a post WSU/Creighton final 4 team. Somebody in the front office needs a raise!
NOW, I am going to make an attempt to argue that it was still a mistake to chose Loyola over Valparaiso 5 years ago.
1. Valpo was much further along in "The Process" than Loyola was at the time.
2. Although I do not believe any Valpo team in the last 5 years was capable of making the final 4, I do believe our team from 2 years ago was a sweet 16 team and I believe that the added bonus of recruiting to the MVC instead of the Horizon might have given us a 2nd team capable of making the tournament because lets face it, 5 years of recruiting The Valley would have made us better last year and this year and that is a FACT.
3. Also, because Valpo was further along in "The Process", I think that having 2 quality games against Valpo last year might have been just enough to push Illinois State into the tournament and give the MVC multiple bids last year as well as the year before when Valpo would have had just enough of a scheduling bump to be an at large team during Peter's junior season. Not to mention the fact that I think we would have been better this year, but lets say we were still in rebuilt mode this year after Peter's departure.
4. Perhaps a multi-bid league year in and year out make Wichita's decision to leave harder. Same goes for Bryce if things are still humming along here. You just never know.
I know, all of my opinions are taking some liberties on things that never happened. But it doesn't change the fact there was a 3 year period there that we were really really good and anybody who tries to dispute that is a moron. Definitely MVC caliber (WE WERE NOT YET THERE THIS YEAR IN A REBUILDING YEAR). But ask yourself where the MVC would be today if they chose Valpo instead of Loyola. To me the answer is that they WOULD NOT have a final 4 team, but what they would have are several multi-bid seasons with mutiple round of 32 and sweet 16 teams and IN THE AGGREGATE would have just as much NCAA money to distribute and a better conference top to bottom.
Now, perhaps with the choice of Loyola going forward the MVC is better off having chosen Loyola based on what we have seen this year. However, over the last 5 years it was still a mistake.
This is very well thought out. I hadn't even thought about WSU possibly staying if the MVC had added Valpo, but it makes some sense. Fun to play "what if", but all Valpo can do is now is move forward and take full advantage of the recruiting and scheduling benefits MVC membership provides. The Loyola run should help with both of these, but also with the budget.
I think it's funny half this board had our coach gone back in February and are now offering him extensions.
Maybe Thad Matta will go back to X. Another name there is former assistant under Prosser, Pat Kelsey.
Quote from: valpo84 on March 28, 2018, 06:51:49 AM
Maybe Thad Matta will go back to X. Another name there is former assistant under Prosser, Pat Kelsey.
John Brannen from NKU is being mentioned as a candidate as well. He is a local guy who grew up just across the river in Northern KY, and Cincinnati schools love their local guys.
Quote from: valpo84 on March 28, 2018, 06:51:49 AM
Maybe Thad Matta will go back to X. Another name there is former assistant under Prosser, Pat Kelsey.
Rumor is the X assistant Steele is in the mix. He was rumored to have been considering interviewing for the Evansville job but once it became clear that Mack was headed to Louisville he withdrew his name from consideration.
Quote from: nkvu on March 28, 2018, 09:14:42 AM
John Brannen from NKU is being mentioned as a candidate as well. He is a local guy who grew up just across the river in Northern KY, and Cincinnati schools love their local guys.
He may get consideration but that's a big step up. I heard he was briefly considered for the Dayton job after Archie left last year.
Quote from: M on March 27, 2018, 06:56:12 PM
I think it's funny half this board had our coach gone back in February and are now offering him extensions.
It is ironic but it's just the reality that mid-majors need to deal with. If the Athletics Department thinks they have a young potential rising star Head Coach you need to lock him up to an extension with increased buyout protections for when a P6 schools come looking to hire him away. If Coach Lottich and the team has a strong season (what determines a strong season is up for debate) next year it might be wise to extend him. Also having a coach locked up may help with recruitment and hiring quality assistants, to let them know the University is committed long-term to the coach. Next season won't be a make or break season for him but be in terms of his prospects of earning and securing an extension.
I understand the beenfits of extending coaches...Point of my comment was mild humor at the mood swings on this board.
We're fans. We only offer rational, well thought out opinions, never change our minds, and always get along with each other.
Drake hired a new HC. Devries is a long time assistant of Creighton.
There's a link to the story in the Around the Valley string under the topic "MVC Coaching changes."
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 29, 2018, 10:26:10 AM
There's a link to the story in the Around teh Valley String --- Coaching changes.
It should be moved back to the Valpo Basketball section, imo.
Interesting article on Loyola's tournament run and what it means for the MVC.
http://awfulannouncing.com/ncaa/loyolas-final-four-run-means-years-of-increased-revenue-for-missouri-valley-conference-members.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 30, 2018, 01:00:37 AM
Interesting article on Loyola's tournament run and what it means for the MVC.
http://awfulannouncing.com/ncaa/loyolas-final-four-run-means-years-of-increased-revenue-for-missouri-valley-conference-members.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Hopefully, the revenue Valpo receives will be put squarely where it belongs, in the men's basketball fund. Something tells me that won't happen.
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 30, 2018, 05:49:44 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 30, 2018, 01:00:37 AM
Interesting article on Loyola's tournament run and what it means for the MVC.
http://awfulannouncing.com/ncaa/loyolas-final-four-run-means-years-of-increased-revenue-for-missouri-valley-conference-members.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Hopefully, the revenue Valpo receives will be put squarely where it belongs, in the men's basketball fund. Something tells me that won't happen.
Amen. Reinvest in the program & the University's greatest marketing asset!
More reasons why elite mids need more bids:
https://twitter.com/bobbyballcoach/status/979042490262147077
https://twitter.com/bobbyballcoach/status/979043513114521605
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 30, 2018, 05:16:41 PM
More reasons why elite mids need more bids:
https://twitter.com/bobbyballcoach/status/979042490262147077
https://twitter.com/bobbyballcoach/status/979043513114521605
I'm not so sure about the math here. He is saying that there have been 69 Mid-Major at-large berths to the NCAA tournament. That translates to 7 at large berths per year. He then goes on to say that the P5 at large berths are 70 - also an average of 7 per year. Some years a given conference has that many at-large berths.
Quote from: covufan on March 30, 2018, 07:01:53 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 30, 2018, 05:16:41 PM
More reasons why elite mids need more bids:
https://twitter.com/bobbyballcoach/status/979042490262147077
https://twitter.com/bobbyballcoach/status/979043513114521605
I'm not so sure about the math here. He is saying that there have been 69 Mid-Major at-large berths to the NCAA tournament. That translates to 7 at large berths per year. He then goes on to say that the P5 at large berths are 70 - also an average of 7 per year. Some years a given conference has that many at-large berths.
I'm all for mid-majors getting a far shake, but I agree that this data is odd. Comparing performance of all mid-major at-large teams to just the worst P5 at-larges seems to be cherry picking a bit. But again, if this helps mids get more bids, I'm all for it.
The data actually makes sense: He's comparing the performance of the last seven "bubble" teams from the Power conferences who received at-large bids over each of the past 10 years against that of the mid major teams (teams from conferences below the AAC) who received at-large bids over the same span. Admittedly it's something of a cherry-picked argument, though the data is pretty telling: Among bubble teams, mid majors win more games and even tend to go slightly deeper in the tournament.
Wow what an embarrassing capitulation by the WCC This is good news for the Valley though.
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/aztecs/sd-sp-gonzaga-mountain-west-wcc-20180331-story.html
This article says much while saying nothing.
http://www.espn.com/blog/ncbrecruiting/on-the-trail/insider/post?id=18612
Losing Ingram Richardson and Jackson is going to be a blow but with Custer Townes Krutwig and Williamson still around and plenty of talent ready to step into new roles plus a shotblocking center ready to come aboard, Loyola is going to be just fine. Don't be surprised if the Ramblers make another deep run next year; hopefully, as part of a multibid MVC.
Quote from: M on March 27, 2018, 06:56:12 PMI think it's funny half this board had our coach gone back in February and are now offering him extensions.
Something to keep in mind here:
https://twitter.com/JasonBelzer/status/980253805584543744
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 31, 2018, 11:31:28 PM
Wow what an embarrassing capitulation by the WCC This is good news for the Valley though.
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/aztecs/sd-sp-gonzaga-mountain-west-wcc-20180331-story.html
The WCC knows if Gonzaga leaves, they basically have no ability to generate revenue for the conference, either through TV or tournament revenue, and BYU most likely wouldn't want to stick around in a league without Gonzaga. It might have been an embarrassing move if the league actually had any leverage in this situation, but I don't think they do.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 01, 2018, 08:44:19 AM
This article says much while saying nothing.
http://www.espn.com/blog/ncbrecruiting/on-the-trail/insider/post?id=18612
Losing Ingram Richardson and Jackson is going to be a blow but with Custer Townes Krutwig and Williamson still around and plenty of talent ready to step into new roles plus a shotblocking center ready to come aboard, Loyola is going to be just fine. Don't be surprised if the Ramblers make another deep run next year; hopefully, as part of a multibid MVC.
They should be fine next season, but I doubt they'll be as efficient of team. They lose some key veterans. It will depend if their inexperienced players can step in right away and fill some big shoes but I doubt they'll be quite as dominant during conference play next season. Illinois State has a chance to be a really good team next season. Bradley might be taking another step as a program and Valpo should be better also. Drake and MSU are probably going to take a step back next season.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 31, 2018, 11:31:28 PM
Wow what an embarrassing capitulation by the WCC This is good news for the Valley though.
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/aztecs/sd-sp-gonzaga-mountain-west-wcc-20180331-story.html
The WCC has to be a toxic environment with what all the other members gave up in that deal on top of Gonzaga already getting a much larger piece of the TV pie then the other schools. They should rename the conference: Gonzaga & Co. I bet the Zags only stick around till the end of the TV contract, which runs out in 2018-19. If the rest of the members don't bend the knee even further to Gonzaga they'll join the MWC. The WCC just doesn't sound like they're long-term home. They're just squeezing every dollar out of it that they can while they're still there.
Come to think of it, commissioner Thompson of the MWC seemed as though he wasn't closing the door on Gonzaga joining in the future. If the WCC is smart they will take this opportunity to expand and try to get some more depth in conference\tap into some larger markets to look more attractive in future media negotiations. Doing so would also give Gonzaga more exposure. They should look to add at least two (if not all) of the following: GCU Denver Seattle and Cal Baptist. Denver and GCU would be best because they have the most money but Seattle and Cal Baptist look to have potential as well. Doing this would provide many benefits to the WCC:
1. It effectively kills the WAC
2. It sends the Summit scrambling as they are already losing their eastern members.
3. It gives the WCC at least one potential bellwether program in the event that Gonzaga and BYU bolt
4. It keeps membership numbers strong to guard against future realignment.
The other schools may not like the idea of sharing an ever-shrinking pie after the Gonzaga Concessions or the increased travel costs but it is the right long-term move for the conference, and would at least give them a chance of being strong enough to keep Gonzaga and BYU around. If the WCC is going to fail in their attempts to do so they may as well fail boldly.
FANTASTIC news for the MVC!
https://twitter.com/Pg_Benson/status/980532897366134784
Quote from: VU2014 on March 25, 2018, 05:17:53 PMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on March 25, 2018, 04:49:14 PMNow if only Barry Hinson would do the same at SIU... He has a good team this year... No excuses...
Barry actually scheduled some solid teams this season like: Louisville, SLU, Murray and the got into the Las Vegas Classic and played Nevada, but SIU always plays their fair share of cupcakes. TBH we did too this season with SIUE and UC Riverside. That UC Riverside could be the low point in my time of being a fan. That game will stick with me till my dying days. Never again should we ever lose to a team like that. Last season schedule was weak for a few reasons that had to do with the conference switch, but on the bright side it sounds like the 2018-19 schedule might be coming along nicely.
Did you see this? Make or break time for Barry.
http://siusalukis.com/news/2018/3/31/general-tommy-bell-monthly-newsletter-march-edition.aspx
Wow. The SIU AD just put Barry on notice with that statement. SIU probably could afford to consistently schedule better season to season but I thought he did a great coaching job this season considering all the injuries that dealt with throughout the season. The SIU AD might be seeing all the new season ticket purchases and fan rejuvenation down in Evansville and it could be influencing him. TBH I think SIU and ISUr had at least a case to be in the NIT.
He absolutely did a fantastic job given the circumstances, but remember this is a proud program with extremely high expectations: before Wichita State was a thing, Southern Illinois was Wichita State. They are among the most successful programs in the MVC since they joined. His under scheduling very possibly cost them an NIT berth. In a 7 game stretch they played 2 lower tier OVC teams (SEMO and SIU-Edwardsville) 1 Southland team (Lamar) 1 SWAC team (Jackson State) 1 MEAC team (North Carolina A&T) and the worst team by far in the Mountain West (San Jose State). That is BRUTAL. Mind you, he had a team that many expected to be pretty good. If Valpo ever scheduled that badly with a team expected to contend we would be demanding answers and change. Barry deserves the heat he is taking because he ducks competition for lousy home games to pad his win total.
We are officially in a conference in which being past the first round (once) is no longer note worthy.
Wikipedia states the following MVC teams have made Final Four appearances:
Bradley (2)
Drake (1)
Indiana State (1)
Loyola IL (2)
(Wichita State (2))
Signs that we need to hit reset mentally on thinking we are any way deserving of respect.
Which means all of the stuff we have been saying about scheduling and facilities and such becomes even more pressing so that we can builda tradition that wins us the respect of our MVC peers. I hope weare up to the challenge and have a plsn in place to achieve this. The reported baseball upgrades and progress on the rec center are both encouraging developments but more is needed and everyone knows this.
The MVC can exhale... Gonzaga is staying put...
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/23006651/gonzaga-remain-west-coast-conference-rather-move-mountain-west-athletic-director-mike-roth-says
But it may not be over forever.
https://1360sports.iheart.com/featured/the-mark-and-rich-show/content/2018-04-02-mark-zeigler-with-the-latest-on-gonzaga-rumors/
Reading between the lines on the MWC Commish's comments, it sure seems like he's congratulating Gonzaga on carving out a sweetheart deal for themselves in the WCC. Which means the rest of the teams in that conference likely got taken to the cleaners.
His comments also left open the possibility of future negotiations between the two parties. Sounds like Gonzaga can have a spot in the MWC anytime it would like. And I wonder if the next round of TV negotiations will possibly put more pressure on Gonzaga to move.
Here's what Gonzaga got:
2 more OOC games
Elimination of the double round robin
Scheduling mandate for conference members (less non D1s More home games than away all teams must play in an MTE All "buy games" must be approved)
A bye directly into the conference tournament semifinals for the top two seeds
$1million per year in back tournament credits
A greater share of future tournament credits that they earn
Yes the rest of the conference absolutely got taken badly. Gonzaga got literally everything. And they still might bolt in the near future.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 02, 2018, 09:16:52 PM
The MVC can exhale... Gonzaga is staying put...
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/23006651/gonzaga-remain-west-coast-conference-rather-move-mountain-west-athletic-director-mike-roth-says
But it may not be over forever.
https://1360sports.iheart.com/featured/the-mark-and-rich-show/content/2018-04-02-mark-zeigler-with-the-latest-on-gonzaga-rumors/
Admittedly haven't been paying attn to Gonzaga's drama. But why should the MVC have been holding its breath?
Here's why that move mattered for the MVC:
The MVC barely edged out the Gonzagaless MWC in RPI and has struggled in recent years to get at-large bids. As things stand right now, the leagues are roughly comparable. Add Gonzaga to the MWC and the MVC has even less room to breathe in the at-large landscape because the MWC becomes a surefire 2-4 bid league every year. The need for the MVC to act to get better would become even more pressing lest it be left behind and further ignored by the committee.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on April 03, 2018, 06:21:22 AM
Admittedly haven't been paying attn to Gonzaga's drama. But why should the MVC have been holding its breath?
Maybe if WCC is only a 1 bid league these days and more likely then not Gonzaga will win the WCC auto-bid and it's going to be tough for St. Mary's and BYU to earn a at-large bid in this current era of CBB. If Gonzaga moves the the MWC it's a tougher path through that Conference Tournament and it's likely that Gonzaga will have a very good chance to earn a at-large bid every year as long as Mark Few is the head coach. Maybe it makes a tougher path for other mid-majors to earn a at-large. I don't know.
One benefit of Gonzaga joining the MWC would be them participating in the MWC/MVC challenge if it were re-upped. The chance for MVC teams to host Gonzaga every other season would be a great opportunity.
The most important thing for the MVC is to raise the bottom of the MVC and have everyone be strong at the same time. The lowest ranked Kenpom team was Drake at 155, Valpo at 150, Illinois State 140, and Indiana State at 138. We need more team to be closer to 100 or above. There isn't one perfect metric, but essentially we need to raise the floor of the conference and help the Top teams get quality wins during Conference play. I hate all the new quadrant garbage the committee made because it essentially limits Mid-Majors from ever scheduling a Q1 game and Q2 opponents are still tough to schedule and it's not like Mid-majors will ever be able to play them on a home court. Best case scenario is the MVC teams get into the neutral site tournaments and get 1 or 2 cracks at a Q1/Q2 team on neutral court.
The MVC as whole needs scheduling standards. Coaches should be strictly capped on how many cupcake games they get to schedule. Avoid sub-200 teams if at all possible.
Quote from: VU2014 on April 03, 2018, 10:49:39 AMCoaches should be strictly capped on how many cupcake games they get to schedule. Avoid sub-200 teams if at all possible.
I'll be curious to see how the WCC enforces that "MTE" rule for their coaches. Valpo was in that Savannah Shootout and wound up with cupcakes on the schedule. I think the only one we could have avoided was UCRiverside. Certainly nobody thought Santa Clara would be as bad as they wound up...
and I'm having a little problem with the math that requires all schools to schedule more home games than away on the OOC and a BUY-game has to be approved by the conference. I'm really interested to see how that works out. If all of the top-15-RPI conferences did the same thing... we'd run out of schools!
All of this sounds like an agreement destined to fail. I still think Gonzaga moves sometime within the next few years.
https://twitter.com/KevinPetschow/status/981571059186053120
8 mid-major basketball teams who could be next season's Loyola-Chicago
Which mid-major could make a magical run to the Final Four next season?
By Sean Keeley on April 4, 2018
http://thecomeback.com/ncaa/loyola-chicago-8-mid-majors-next-final-four.html
Rumor has it that GCU is coming to Cedar Falls to play UNI. Saw the post on MVCFans.
Quote from: VU2014 on April 03, 2018, 10:49:39 AM
The most important thing for the MVC is to raise the bottom of the MVC and have everyone be strong at the same time. The lowest ranked Kenpom team was Drake at 155, Valpo at 150, Illinois State 140, and Indiana State at 138. We need more team to be closer to 100 or above. There isn't one perfect metric, but essentially we need to raise the floor of the conference and help the Top teams get quality wins during Conference play. I hate all the new quadrant garbage the committee made because it essentially limits Mid-Majors from ever scheduling a Q1 game and Q2 opponents are still tough to schedule and it's not like Mid-majors will ever be able to play them on a home court. Best case scenario is the MVC teams get into the neutral site tournaments and get 1 or 2 cracks at a Q1/Q2 team on neutral court.
The MVC as whole needs scheduling standards. Coaches should be strictly capped on how many cupcake games they get to schedule. Avoid sub-200 teams if at all possible.
This year was an exceptionally good year for the MVC's bottom, and the league member average as a whole per Kenpom (124.9). In terms of average ratings for its current members, it's the best average rating as a whole since 2013 (120.4). Several of the teams performed well above their average Kenpom rating if you look at the last 10 years. If you throw out the Horizon League years for Loyola and Valpo, teams had an average improvement over their years in the MVC of 22.62 spots, with the majority of that from Loyola (107 spots above their MVC average) and Bradley (73.8 spots above their MVC average).
The reason for that is largely based on the experience of the MVC's teams and/or their continuity of minutes from the previous season. For example, one team who performed well above their average in Bradley, didn't have a ton of experience (they only lose 1 Sr. off of this year's team that was a significant contributor), they were 26th in minutes continuity (guys who played in 16-17 who are also playing in 17-18). On the opposite end, there was Illinois State, who had neither experience nor continuity of minutes (rated 265th and 295th respectively) and finished 34 spots below their average kenpom rating over the past 10 years. The one team that underperformed relative to those ratings and their previous averages was Northern Iowa, who was just above average in experience, top 100 (93rd) in continuity and still was 38.9 spots below their average rating over the past 10 years.
Expecting the teams at the bottom of the league to remain this high I think is unrealistic, as the league members over the past 10 years have never had a season where the lowest rated teams were close to this high (previous best was 2013 where the lowest rated teams were 177th and 212th). Heck, even if you look at the major conferences, only the Big 12 (103rd), Big East (99th), SEC (108th), and Big Ten (130th) had bottoms of the league that were better than the MVC. Even the ACC (227th) and Pac-12 (244th) were worse. The good news is that while I expect teams like Drake and Missouri State to take a big step back next year, teams like Bradley and Illinois State should be able to make up for it based on everything they have coming back.
Don't forget Southern Illinois. If healthy they should be very good. Also I'm not sure Missouri State will fall as far as many think. I expect Loyola to remain about the same with slight regression and improvement from Indiana State and Valpo. As for Evansville I'm taking a wait and see approach while Drake probably regresses.
Good article on the future of the MVC.
http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/why-the-valleys-best-days-are-ahead/
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 05, 2018, 07:13:44 PM
Good article on the future of the MVC.
http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/why-the-valleys-best-days-are-ahead/
I still think McMillan is a year away and will shine bright as a junior. He needs to come off the bench as a sophomore. We are a solid stretch 4 grad transfer starter away from being a very competitive team next season.
Quote from: SanityLost17 on April 06, 2018, 07:27:08 AM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 05, 2018, 07:13:44 PM
Good article on the future of the MVC.
http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/why-the-valleys-best-days-are-ahead/
I still think McMillan is a year away and will shine bright as a junior. He needs to come off the bench as a sophomore. We are a solid stretch 4 grad transfer starter away from being a very competitive team next season.
100% agree, but Loyola seemed to get away with a 6'5" or 6'6" athletic SF guarding the PF slot. Because we still have Fazekas, Mileek and Linssen to take 25 mpg we could also consider an athletic SF type like was Burton.
I'm more inclined to take a SF because we already have heavy PF investment in Linssen and Mileek.
I was listening to the Loyola AD on the radio on my commute to work this morning and he had some interesting things to say:
-They are working on an extension for Moser (other schools have reached out to Moser to gauge interest (I'm presuming no P6 schools))
-Loyola plans on throwing their whole weight behind the program after this F4 run in terms of infrastructure and support. (I'm so jealous as a Valpo fan to hear that. That is almost unthinkable to ever hear someone like President Heckler making a statement or proclamation like that.)
-The Loyola AD said going forward Loyola is not comparing itself to other teams in the Missouri Valley Conference. He said they are comparing themselves to schools like Butler, VCU and Wichita State. Some very interesting statements... Makes you think if they have aspirations beyond being in the MVC. Comments like that will tick some other MVC fans off.
-Loyola is confirmed to be playing Nevada at Gentile in the MVC/MWC Challenge. Loyola is in the works to be in one the Bahamas Neutral site Tournaments. The are really trying to schedule the best teams possible next season.
Quote from: VU2014 on April 06, 2018, 09:16:19 AM
I was listening to the Loyola AD on the radio on my commute to work this morning and he had some interesting things to say:
-They are working on an extension for Moser (other schools have reached out to Moser to gauge interest (I'm presuming no P6 schools))
-Loyola plans on throwing their whole weight behind the program after this F4 run in terms of infrastructure and support. (I'm so jealous as a Valpo fan to hear that. That is almost unthinkable to ever hear someone like President Heckler making a statement or proclamation like that.)
-The Loyola AD said going forward Loyola is not comparing itself to other teams in the Missouri Valley Conference. He said they are comparing themselves to schools like Butler, VCU and Wichita State. Some very interesting statements... Makes you think if they have aspirations beyond being in the MVC. Comments like that will tick some other MVC fans off.
-Loyola is confirmed to be playing Nevada at Gentile in the MVC/MWC Challenge. Loyola is in the works to be in one the Bahamas Neutral site Tournaments. The are really trying to schedule the best teams possible next season.
Next year Loyola should have a good team as well, but it'll be interesting to see where they go beyond that. The difference between those schools that he mentioned and Loyola is the consistency of success before their Final 4 runs. I think it's great that they feel this way, but I do think their situation is unlike any of the schools that he mentions. They literally hadn't made a tournament in 35 years, and while they were certainly a solid team last year, this run literally came out of nowhere. Even George Mason had made a couple of tournament appearances within a few years of their Final 4 run.
I wouldn't take this talk too personally as a member of the MVC. This is how every smaller program feels once they make a run like this. The one thing they do have going for them is that their endowment is absolutely big enough to throw behind the program and go places.
1. Agreed on the jealousy. Again, Valpo's admin has talked the talk, but as yet, not a whole lotta walk. Comments like this from the Loyola AD coming AFTER seeking out and finding the funding for a new practice facility really put the two together.
2. Correct, consistency is the next step to really elevating your program. Butler did it. GM and VCU, not so much. LU will have a target on their backs next year.
Quote from: VU2014 on April 06, 2018, 09:16:19 AM
I was listening to the Loyola AD on the radio on my commute to work this morning and he had some interesting things to say:
-They are working on an extension for Moser (other schools have reached out to Moser to gauge interest (I'm presuming no P6 schools))
-Loyola plans on throwing their whole weight behind the program after this F4 run in terms of infrastructure and support. (I'm so jealous as a Valpo fan to hear that. That is almost unthinkable to ever hear someone like President Heckler making a statement or proclamation like that.)
-The Loyola AD said going forward Loyola is not comparing itself to other teams in the Missouri Valley Conference. He said they are comparing themselves to schools like Butler, VCU and Wichita State. Some very interesting statements... Makes you think if they have aspirations beyond being in the MVC. Comments like that will tick some other MVC fans off.
-Loyola is confirmed to be playing Nevada at Gentile in the MVC/MWC Challenge. Loyola is in the works to be in one the Bahamas Neutral site Tournaments. The are really trying to schedule the best teams possible next season.
Of course they feel that way. They have had one year in a row of great success! ::)
I don't know why VCU made that shortlist. They're already pretty much there in terms of conference prestige and tournament success. Maybe they're signalling to the A10 or AAC that they're interested if a spot should open up. If UCONN ever finds its way to the Big East Loyola could be part of the chain of moves. It is critical that the MVC stay ahead of the A10 and at least get close to the AAC to stave off further poaching of the league.
Look, let it be said up front that I *LOVE* the comments from the Loyola AD. That is exactly how a program should be thinking after a Final Four run -- how to best capitalize on that momentum, and sustain that level of national success moving forward. I didn't read it as "we're too good for the Valley" or any of that nonsense. More of "the bar has been raised higher than conference championships as a result of this, and we recognize that."
If VU had that level of foresight after the Sweet 16 run, where could we be right now?
All that said, right now, they are way more analagous to George Mason than Butler, VCU or Wichita -- three programs that had some sustained success and regular tournament appearances and at-large bids prior to their Final 4 run. Mason didn't go to the postseason the year prior to their run and hadn't been to the tourney in 5 years (where they were a 14 seed). That's not a knock on Loyola -- far from it, actually! Just that it's not an apples-to-apples comparison.
One thing that a Final Four run will do: it WILL get easier for Loyola to schedule in the non-conference for the next few years, at minimum. That has been an across-the-board outcome for every mid-major that's made it to the Final Four. The cachet that comes along with that makes it far less likely for P6's and other good teams will duck you, because the "no upside for us" has been taken out of the equation, as well as a good chunk of the downside. If you lose, hey, you lost to a team that just went to the Final Four (and beat the ACC, SEC and Big 12 along the way)! If you win, hey, you just beat a Final Four program! It changes the narrative around your scheduling completely.
Quote from: vu72 on April 06, 2018, 12:19:48 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on April 06, 2018, 09:16:19 AM
I was listening to the Loyola AD on the radio on my commute to work this morning and he had some interesting things to say:
-They are working on an extension for Moser (other schools have reached out to Moser to gauge interest (I'm presuming no P6 schools))
-Loyola plans on throwing their whole weight behind the program after this F4 run in terms of infrastructure and support. (I'm so jealous as a Valpo fan to hear that. That is almost unthinkable to ever hear someone like President Heckler making a statement or proclamation like that.)
-The Loyola AD said going forward Loyola is not comparing itself to other teams in the Missouri Valley Conference. He said they are comparing themselves to schools like Butler, VCU and Wichita State. Some very interesting statements... Makes you think if they have aspirations beyond being in the MVC. Comments like that will tick some other MVC fans off.
-Loyola is confirmed to be playing Nevada at Gentile in the MVC/MWC Challenge. Loyola is in the works to be in one the Bahamas Neutral site Tournaments. The are really trying to schedule the best teams possible next season.
Of course they feel that way. They have had one year in a row of great success! ::)
Agreed. Pathetic when a program gets all arrogant after just one lucky run in the NCAA tourney. I know they've now made 3 sweet 16s and 2 Final Fours, but that was spread over 55 years. They've not had the sustained excellence that Valpo has displayed in recent years.
Quote from: EddieCabot on April 06, 2018, 04:25:10 PM
Quote from: vu72 on April 06, 2018, 12:19:48 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on April 06, 2018, 09:16:19 AM
I was listening to the Loyola AD on the radio on my commute to work this morning and he had some interesting things to say:
-They are working on an extension for Moser (other schools have reached out to Moser to gauge interest (I'm presuming no P6 schools))
-Loyola plans on throwing their whole weight behind the program after this F4 run in terms of infrastructure and support. (I'm so jealous as a Valpo fan to hear that. That is almost unthinkable to ever hear someone like President Heckler making a statement or proclamation like that.)
-The Loyola AD said going forward Loyola is not comparing itself to other teams in the Missouri Valley Conference. He said they are comparing themselves to schools like Butler, VCU and Wichita State. Some very interesting statements... Makes you think if they have aspirations beyond being in the MVC. Comments like that will tick some other MVC fans off.
-Loyola is confirmed to be playing Nevada at Gentile in the MVC/MWC Challenge. Loyola is in the works to be in one the Bahamas Neutral site Tournaments. The are really trying to schedule the best teams possible next season.
Of course they feel that way. They have had one year in a row of great success! ::)
Agreed. Pathetic when a program gets all arrogant after just one lucky run in the NCAA tourney. I know they've now made 3 sweet 16s and 2 Final Fours, but that was spread over 55 years. They've not had the sustained excellence that Valpo has displayed in recent years.
We need to guard against that very thing. It's been 20-years since "Bruce".
Though we have had tournament appearances, those aren't the runs that get us noticed nationally.
Our names being in the brackets often must have paid some dividends as to get us into the HL then MVC.
I long for this program to prove to the nation that it is more than "the shot." I think we will soon. The MVC is the perfect league to do it from.
Relax Loyola people...one year doth not maketh a National power and program. We are all happy for LU's success, but before all the talk about the greatest coach and program, let's see what happens over the next year or 2. Remember George Mason, or VCU? Let's face it not everybody even remembers Valpo as a big time program after our Sweet 16 run. I will let my judgement wait for a year or 2. Afterall it was only a year or two ago that the Loyola people were clammering for a coaching change...now he is one of the top guys in the Country???
I am curious how the top 7 conferences in college basketball treat Loyola going forward as far as scheduling.
Does a Final 4 for Loyola:
A: Make it ok to schedule them for Home and Aways due to the fact a loss to them not hurting so bad.
B: Will they be shut out completely in attempt to suppress a future potential yearly at-large bid stealer.
C: Somewhere in-between
Quote from: SanityLost17 on April 07, 2018, 05:04:10 PM
I am curious how the top 7 conferences in college basketball treat Loyola going forward as far as scheduling.
Does a Final 4 for Loyola:
A: Make it ok to schedule them for Home and Aways due to the fact a loss to them not hurting so bad.
B: Will they be shut out completely in attempt to suppress a future potential yearly at-large bid stealer.
C: Somewhere in-between
If we look at Wichita State from 2013-2017 (post Final 4) they landed some nice Home-&-Homes. They didn't get any of the perennial powerhouses to schedule them but they had series with Alabama, SLU, Tulsa, Seaton Hall, Utah, Oklahoma, and Oklahoma State. Another big thing was they got into some great neutral site tournaments post Final 4. Wichita State has some serious $ backing their program that will likely far exceed what Loyola can afford to do.
I wouldn't be so quick to sell Loyola short from a financial standpoint. They may not have Koch money but their endowment is massive and they have numerous alumni with deep pockets.
Word from MVCFans has it that former Drake commit Messiah Jones is visiting Bradley this week. Not sure why we aren't in on him.
Walter McCarty is building himself a pretty solid looking staff with strong connections to Butler. His staff includes ex Bulldogs (and Iowa Hawkeyes) coach Todd Lickliter and ex South Alabama coach and former Butler assistant Matthew Graves This tells me two things: 1. The Aces are probably going to try to recruit Indianapolis and the surrounding area hard and 2. They'll probably get a series with Butler started sometime soon. That would be a good get for them.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 13, 2018, 01:16:11 PM
Walter McCarty is building himself a pretty solid looking staff with strong connections to Butler. His staff includes ex Bulldogs (and Iowa Hawkeyes) coach Todd Lickliter and ex South Alabama coach and former Butler assistant Matthew Graves This tells me two things: 1. The Aces are probably going to try to recruit Indianapolis and the surrounding area hard and 2. They'll probably get a series with Butler started sometime soon. That would be a good get for them.
We'll see on the series, but generally speaking, staffs with those kinds of personal connections (and there are a bunch) don't like to hurt each other's careers. It'll definitely be a couple years anyway as Butler has home and homes with Ole Miss and Florida this season and next season.
I have not heard anything on McCarty as a coach, ass't or whatever he has been doing until now. Was he a "big" name candidate? And now with the hiring of Lickleiter and Graves I am really confused. They are 2 experienced coaches working for a guy who is basically an unknown quantity??
First of all McCarty isn't completely unknown to the college game. He spent 3-4 years as an assistant at Louisville. I think 2007-2010 or 2011. Secondly, McCarty is a local guy with ample NBA experience as both a player and a coach. This will play well with recruits. I think McCarty's NBA and Brad Stevens connections were big here. Lickliter Graves and McCarty all have deep connections to Butler/Brad Stevens and/or the NBA. Graves was an assistant under Stevens at Butler Lickliter was replaced by Stevens at Butler after he took the job at Iowa where he failed miserably and has experience I believe as an NBA scout, while McCarty was an assistant under Stevens with the Celtics ( and under Jim O'Brien with the Pacers). Because of these connections the three probably felt better about working together. In addition to his local ties, one reason McCarty appeals to a program like Evansville that has been down for so long is because unlike his two lead assistants who may have equal or better qualifications is because he doesn't have the same stigma of being a coaching retread. Had the Aces gone that route even for someone with a resume like Lickliter who was very successful at Butler I doubt the fanbase would be as excited. As for why these men chose to join up with McCarty is likely due to Stevens and timing. Having washed out at South Alabama Graves I'm sure was eager to continue his career and nobody was going to offer him a HC job. Same with Lickliter, his Iowa tenure was really bad and he had been away from the college game for awhile. He definitely would need to prove he can still recruit in order to become a HC again which I think is his goal.
McCarty is wise to get two assistants with previous HC experience. That is not a bottom MVC staff. I'm sure we'll see some of the Evansville players that originally asked to transfer coming back to the program. The MVC in 2019 just got tougher.
Quote from: covufan on April 13, 2018, 08:15:35 PM
McCarty is wise to get two assistants with previous HC experience. That is not a bottom MVC staff. I'm sure we'll see some of the Evansville players that originally asked to transfer coming back to the program. The MVC in 2019 just got tougher.
Not a bad staff, but I don't think it will change their fortunes in 2019. They'll probably be a bottom dweller next season. Dru Smith and Ryan Taylor won't be coming back to Evansville. It's a rebuild down there.
It may take some time to start seeing results but this much is clear: For the first time since Crews roamed the sidelines Evansville fans have legitimate reason to believe that the program is being stewarded by people who will lead it somewhere good. Big time upgrade over Marty Simmons and his staff.
VUgrad I appreciate your insight and info on the U of E coaching situation. However it still seems a little bit unusual what has come together there. Hopefully it will work out for them. One thing for sure it isn't the smooth Butler way to put together a staff. Different strokes for different folks.
Well, Evansville doesn't have the same level of sustained success, stability, and continuity that Butler has either. Gotta start somewhere. I agree that it is a strange way to put together a staff. I'm betting Lickliter especially will be leaned upon heavily if McCarty should need any help. As I said, Evansville benefited greatly from timing here. Neither Lickliter nor Graves was likely to get a HC offer, but it's clear they wanted to get back into coaching preferably in a place where they're comfortable and are known (both have strong midwest ties). Furthermore Evansville presented a great opportunity because they could play an important and prominent role in a turnaround that, if successful, would be a huge boon to their careers. If it's not successful, at least their names are back out there as they pursue other jobs.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 14, 2018, 07:06:38 PM
Well, Evansville doesn't have the same level of sustained success, stability, and continuity that Butler has either. Gotta start somewhere. I agree that it is a strange way to put together a staff. I'm betting Lickliter especially will be leaned upon heavily if McCarty should need any help. As I said, Evansville benefited greatly from timing here. Neither Lickliter nor Graves was likely to get a HC offer, but it's clear they wanted to get back into coaching preferably in a place where they're comfortable and are known (both have strong midwest ties). Furthermore Evansville presented a great opportunity because they could play an important and prominent role in a turnaround that, if successful, would be a huge boon to their careers. If it's not successful, at least their names are back out there as they pursue other jobs.
It's outstanding to see strong opportunities like the Evansville hires in our new conference. Even better that the private school portion of the MVC has a brighter future and present (Loyola).
Now it's Valpo's job to hold up its end of the bargain. We sure could use a Top 5 finish this coming year to wipe out the mess that was 2017/18.
https://twitter.com/HoopvilleAdam/status/1016690308334215169
2017-18 MVC Post-Mortem
July 6, 2018
@HoopvilleAdam
http://www.hoopville.com/2018/07/06/2017-18-mvc-post-mortem/
Is it too early to start a poll on our mvc finish this year? I know I know, our schedule won't be published until September....😂 so a poll in July might be early.