Let's kill all talk of an at-large, by speaking about the NIT. What seed should we expect? Hopefully our guys come ready to play this time, rather than the big letdown at Miami a few seasons back. If we can get a few quality wins in this tournament, it could help recruiting. Not as much as the NCAA would have, but it can't hurt to put up a banner with a deep NIT run.
I have to think it will be tough to motivate this team to play in the NIT after all the expectations and hype for a run in the NCAAs. Seriously I don't think I've bothered watching an NIT game since the last time Valpo was in it. It will be a challenge to motivate the kids. But that's what coaches are for, right? And a win or two in the NIT is better than playing in one of the other alphabet tournaments or not playing at all I suppose.
Peering past the darkness of defeat in Detroit, on the bright side an NIT appearance means a home game for fans to watch this team in person again perhaps against an interesting opponent. In addition, there is motivation for the team to do well and possibly get to play in New York at Madison Square Garden.
No offense to any of you all. I'm all for supporting the team in whatever tournament they play in.
But I hate that this thread exists.
Quote from: valpopal on March 08, 2016, 12:52:05 AM
Peering past the darkness of defeat in Detroit, on the bright side an NIT appearance means a home game for fans to watch this team in person again perhaps against an interesting opponent. In addition, there is motivation for the team to do well and possibly get to play in New York at Madison Square Garden.
It also sets up the chance for a last second loss to a team such as Columbia which further instills a "what could have been" disappointment that many of us are feeling at this time. Wow! I'm just feeling debby downer at this time so bad.
vs Top 50: Hofstra 1-0, Monmouth 2-2, Valpo 1-1, Wichita St. 1-3. Vs Top 100: Hofstra 6-3, Monmouth 4-3. Valpo 4-2, Wichita St 4-7.
Why is everyone on Wichita St. at-large band wagon?
The slate has been wiped clean. This is a fifth season for the seniors, and everyone needs to buy in to getting the seniors to NY City! They can do this!
Quote from: covufan on March 08, 2016, 10:25:40 AM
The slate has been wiped clean. This is a fifth season for the seniors, and everyone needs to buy in to getting the seniors to NY City! They can do this!
Agreed. I was vomiting last night like the rest of us. The NIT still gets plenty of TV and press coverage. Several regular season winners have lost in tournament play and there will be a bunch of Power 5 teams in the field. Not sure about a home game, this isn't the CBI or CIT.
I'm sure Bryce has talked to Scott, who has done well in his last two NITs. The team needs to join together and get to NY.
Quote from: vu72 on March 08, 2016, 10:53:38 AM
Quote from: covufan on March 08, 2016, 10:25:40 AM
The slate has been wiped clean. This is a fifth season for the seniors, and everyone needs to buy in to getting the seniors to NY City! They can do this!
Agreed. I was vomiting last night like the rest of us. The NIT still gets plenty of TV and press coverage. Several regular season winners have lost in tournament play and there will be a bunch of Power 5 teams in the field. Not sure about a home game, this isn't the CBI or CIT.
I believe that the NIT is seeded like the NCAA. We could theoretically be seeded as a #1 or #2. I think the better seeds host.
While I fully understand that some might not like that this thread exists, it is our reality. It is extremely unlikely that the many teams in front of us on most prognosticator's 'bubble watch,' all lose early games in their conference tournament. We at least have a better RPI/SOS than Monmouth now, but Wichita State has that recent history with NCAA tournament success, that some seem to factor in.
Quote from: IndyValpo on March 08, 2016, 11:32:25 AM
Quote from: vu72 on March 08, 2016, 10:53:38 AM
Quote from: covufan on March 08, 2016, 10:25:40 AM
The slate has been wiped clean. This is a fifth season for the seniors, and everyone needs to buy in to getting the seniors to NY City! They can do this!
Agreed. I was vomiting last night like the rest of us. The NIT still gets plenty of TV and press coverage. Several regular season winners have lost in tournament play and there will be a bunch of Power 5 teams in the field. Not sure about a home game, this isn't the CBI or CIT.
I believe that the NIT is seeded like the NCAA. We could theoretically be seeded as a #1 or #2. I think the better seeds host.
My understanding is that Valpo already has been guaranteed a home game if they slip to the NIT.
It's not as fun as Lunardi, but BigAppleBuckets (http://www.nycbuckets.com/current-nit-bracketology/) does a pretty good job with NIT bracket coverage. They have us at... last 8 teams IN the the NCAA Tourney. Monmouth is out of the NCAA and a 1 seed. So it looks like anything less than a 2 seed in the NIT would be a slight (as it stands right now)
We have to be optimistic because why not?
Here is why Valpo deserves an at large bid. No bad losses. Worst loss is to Ball State who turned out to a bit better than even the MAC expected. Valpo played very well in the OOC with wins at Rhode Island, and Oregon State. Monmouth lost to 3 teams above 200 RPI. Wichita St. had an injury much like Valpo and even though they didn't have any bad losses they are only 4-7 against top 100 RPI teams where Valpo is 3-2. The shockers SOS is better than Valpo's and Valpo's is better than Monmouth's. I don't know the inner workings of scheduling but from what I hear no one would schedule Valpo because there was a lot hype surrounding the program. I believe we did just enough to get in. Optimistic prediction: Valpo and Wichita St. in, Monmouth out. Am I right? Not likely, but definitely possible!
We were included in a handful of brackets on bracketmatrix - which was nice to see. Wouldn't hold my breath. I guess if Oregon State wins the Pac12, St Mary's the WCC, a bunch of the decent a10 and aac teams lose early, Temple becomes ineligible for recruiting violations... Ugh, my head hurts.
Quote from: a3uge on March 08, 2016, 12:26:04 PM
We were included in a handful of brackets on bracketmatrix - which was nice to see. Wouldn't hold my breath. I guess if Oregon State wins the Pac12, St Mary's the WCC, a bunch of the decent a10 and aac teams lose early, Temple becomes ineligible for recruiting violations... Ugh, my head hurts.
C'mon 8 more teams having Louisville scandals! Is there a coach who could potentially pull a Chicago Sunroof?
Tough lesson learned in Detroit. But next season starts today in my mind.
I have a sense we will have a bit less combined talent next year, but the pieces may fit better as a whole. Skara reminded me in Detroit why he was so helpul and versatile. TeVonn is simply the second best player and maybe best athlete on the team. Has great instincts and toughness as well as skill.
Yes, we lose a great point guard in Keith, but maybe Smits can replace Vashil as rim protector (and possibly be a better passer out of the post), Nickerson and Darien had some great moments, but ultimately it got crowded for them with Shane in the mix and the timing seemed off kilter. Every possession seemed to have 2 or 3 hesitations to shoot or to pass. No rhythm.
I'm ready for next year already. NIT is icing on the cake.
I concur about the potential for next year with Smits added into the equation. If Derrik gives us 50% of what Vashil gave us on defense near the hole, and he also brings his much softer hands and better shooting both near the basket and from 15' , overall, next year's team will have a generally improved offense along with a pretty darned good D.
I also watched the minutes played by our opponents throughout the season, because I was curious about rotations. We, many times, went 9 deep while opponents generally stayed around 7 or 7.5 deep. Unlike Valpo that was not only rotating lots of players but also rotating their positions as well, most opponents played a pretty pat standard lineup and subs actually functioned as subs in designated roles (granted, this is a generality unsupported by stats -- just basic eyeballing). Next year, the "need" to get a lot of players enough minutes will not be an issue. The lineup can be locked in and roles more narrowly defined. That adds to stability and consistency and provides a platform for continuous improvement throughout the season -- a lack of which was noted by numerous other posters.
Quote from: Kyle321n on March 08, 2016, 12:39:39 PMIs there a coach who could potentially pull a Chicago Sunroof?
Yeah, but Cleveland State fired him years ago...
Better Call Saul
Reports that I have heard from the basketball offices are that the program is pushing extremely hard for Keith to be granted another year.
That would be nice.
Whatever Smits can give us in his time here may be a bonus. Wasn't he injured in high school and then again this year? I just hope he isn't an injury plagued big guy.
Getting Keith back would be pretty fantastic.
Our newcomer Micah is reported to bring solid shooting skills. I hope he'll be able to contribute already next year.
Quote from: humbleopinion on March 08, 2016, 02:48:46 PM
Our newcomer, Micah, is reported to bring solid shooting skills. I hope he'll be able to contribute already next year.
don't want to sway from the NIT topic, but 1st priority should be a rim protector. We have had good teams in the past but now have seen how much a shot blocker can put you over the top.
USAToday still has us in the at large hunt despite our loss. They've penciled in WSU as the AB at 15.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2016/03/08/ncaa-tournament-bracketology-bubble-teams-monmouth-wichita-state/81475146/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2016/03/08/ncaa-tournament-bracketology-bubble-teams-monmouth-wichita-state/81475146/)
Quote from: humbleopinion on March 08, 2016, 02:48:46 PM
Our newcomer Micah is reported to bring solid shooting skills. I hope he'll be able to contribute already next year.
Micah Bradford is the real deal. Lightning quick, a slasher and able to score. It will be hard to keep him off the floor. Derrik is a completely different player than Vashil. Let's face it, Vashil has a shooting range of less than 1 foot. He misses many layups. Derrik will be able to pull guys away from the rim but can't be nearly as good of a shot blocker. Our offense will change as will our defensive strategy.
But even 50% of Vashil by Derrik will be upside.
I'm looking at both Big Apple Buckets and USA Today and neither one of them has us in the NCAA tourney. The former has us an NIT 1 seed and the latter has us under Others considered for at-large.
Quote from: valpopal on March 08, 2016, 11:46:50 AM
Quote from: IndyValpo on March 08, 2016, 11:32:25 AM
Quote from: vu72 on March 08, 2016, 10:53:38 AM
Quote from: covufan on March 08, 2016, 10:25:40 AM
The slate has been wiped clean. This is a fifth season for the seniors, and everyone needs to buy in to getting the seniors to NY City! They can do this!
Agreed. I was vomiting last night like the rest of us. The NIT still gets plenty of TV and press coverage. Several regular season winners have lost in tournament play and there will be a bunch of Power 5 teams in the field. Not sure about a home game, this isn't the CBI or CIT.
I believe that the NIT is seeded like the NCAA. We could theoretically be seeded as a #1 or #2. I think the better seeds host.
My understanding is that Valpo already has been guaranteed a home game if they slip to the NIT.
As long as there's still basketball to be played, I'm still interested. A home game against a quality opponent (especially someone from a major conference) could draw very well. I love this group and hope they can find some redemption in a successful NIT run!
A good run could also keep Bryce and major contributors with us another season (AP and KC). If Keith gets an extra year and we have a good NIT run, it will drive them to do even better next season. Then again, it could also drive them straight to the same decision that many top HL players have been making when they have this option, straight into Tom Izzo's arms :'(
Unless some of these teams get at-large bids into the NCAAs, the NIT is full of auto-bids at the moment, 11 as 8:45pm CT on March 9th:
North Florida- Atlantic Sun
High Point- Big South
Hofstra- Colonial
Valparaiso- Horizon
Monmouth- MAAC
Wichita State- Missouri Valley
Wagner- Northeast
Belmont- Ohio Valley
Bucknell- Patriot
Fort Wayne- Summit
St. Mary's- West Coast
Quote from: HailVU2014 on March 09, 2016, 08:51:42 PM
Unless some of these teams get at-large bids into the NCAAs, the NIT is full of auto-bids at the moment, 11 as 8:45pm CT on March 9th:
North Florida- Atlantic Sun
High Point- Big South
Hofstra- Colonial
Valparaiso- Horizon
Monmouth- MAAC
Wichita State- Missouri Valley
Wagner- Northeast
Belmont- Ohio Valley
Bucknell- Patriot
Fort Wayne- Summit
St. Mary's- West Coast
We are better than every one of those teams, unless we are injured, or shoot poorly, play bad defense, have too many turnovers and it's an end of the year win-or-go-home tournament.
you have many "unless" conditions in your assessment, and the others on the list could say the same thing. I would say St. Mary's, Belmont and Valpo are pretty similar...
32-teams
4-regions
top four teams in each region host a game
Highest seed survives to play at home until NYC.
(Here's the 2015 bracket)
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/ncaa-tournament/brackets/viewable_nit (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/ncaa-tournament/brackets/viewable_nit)
If I counted correctly 10 of the 32 were Power-5 teams... and 2 of the opening round games were between power-5 schools...Pitt was the only one of the 10 to lose in the opening round... at home to GW.
Arena size doesn't matter... St Mary's only seats about 3,000 on a good day...
Quote from: talksalot on March 10, 2016, 07:04:32 AMArena size doesn't matter... St Mary's only seats about 3,000 on a good day...
What is a "bad" day for St Mary's arena? When about 500 fat people decide to show up and it only seats 2,500?
As much as I think we deserve an at large bid, holy crap do I want three power 5 schools to have to come to Valpo. When's the last time a top 100 RPI power 5 school came to Valpo? I think it was Purdue in 2011. Since that game the non-con top 100 (via KenPom) opponents we've had at the ARC:
2011-- #66 Iona
2011-- #71 Missouri St.
2012-- #69 Akron
2014-- #35 Saint Louis
2014-- #86 Mercer
2016-- #70 Iona
Let's get Kansas St, VaTech, and Ohio St to come to the ARC. They played a combined 4 true road OOC games this season, so let's see if they deign to play in the ARC.
Quote from: Kyle321n on March 10, 2016, 08:57:05 AM
As much as I think we deserve an at large bid, holy crap do I want three power 5 schools to have to come to Valpo. When's the last time a top 100 RPI power 5 school came to Valpo? I think it was Purdue in 2011. Since that game the non-con top 100 (via KenPom) opponents we've had at the ARC:
2011-- #66 Iona
2011-- #71 Missouri St.
2012-- #69 Akron
2014-- #35 Saint Louis
2014-- #86 Mercer
2016-- #70 Iona
Let's get Kansas St, VaTech, and Ohio St to come to the ARC. They played a combined 4 true road OOC games this season, so let's see if they deign to play in the ARC.
There have been 5 "power" conference games at the ARC since the turn of the century, and I'm even stretching that to include New Mexico since the Mountain West was a lot stronger then.
New Mexico
Marquette
Cincinnati
Purdue (twice)
Quote from: historyman on March 10, 2016, 07:10:33 AMQuote from: talksalot on Today at 07:04:32 AM
Arena size doesn't matter... St Mary's only seats about 3,000 on a good day...
What is a "bad" day for St Mary's arena? When about 500 fat people decide to show up and it only seats 2,500?
Or Playing Stanford or Gonzaga at home as their only sell-outs...
St Mary's Home Games with attendance
11/13/15 SAN FRANCISCO ST 2589
11/16/15 MANHATTAN 2242
11/22/15 STANFORD 3500
11/29/15 CSU BAKERSFIELD 2340
12/04/15 UC DAVIS 2506
12/06/15 UC IRVINE 2333
12/14/15 CAL POLY 2183
12/16/15 SOUTHERN UTAH 1836
12/21/15 SAN FRANCISCO 2408
12/28/15 UTAH VALLEY 2113
12/31/15 BRIGHAM YOUNG 3183
01/02/16 UNIVERSITY OF SAN DIEGO 2185
01/14/16 PACIFIC 2983
01/21/16 GONZAGA 3500
01/23/16 PORTLAND 3338
02/11/16 PEPPERDINE 3340
02/13/16 LOYOLA MARYMOUNT 3165
02/25/16 SANTA CLARA 3165
03/01/16 GRAND CANYON UNIV 2735
John Templon drops us to a two seed (seems more realistic; hopefully conference tournaments don't further erode it). Still could mean two games at the ARC, maybe one against a "power" conference team. First round almost certainly against an AQ, if we keep a 1 or 2 seed.
Bracketmatrix has 7 of almost 100 brackets still including us as an at-large. Good for probably a 2-seed NIT or maybe squeaking into a one.
I'd overlooked Purdue playing twice at the ARC this century!
Quote from: talksalot on March 10, 2016, 09:48:27 AM
Quote from: historyman on March 10, 2016, 07:10:33 AMQuote from: talksalot on Today at 07:04:32 AM
Arena size doesn't matter... St Mary's only seats about 3,000 on a good day...
What is a "bad" day for St Mary's arena? When about 500 fat people decide to show up and it only seats 2,500?
Or Playing Stanford or Gonzaga at home as their only sell-outs...
St Mary's Home Games with attendance
11/13/15 SAN FRANCISCO ST 2589
11/16/15 MANHATTAN 2242
11/22/15 STANFORD 3500
11/29/15 CSU BAKERSFIELD 2340
12/04/15 UC DAVIS 2506
12/06/15 UC IRVINE 2333
12/14/15 CAL POLY 2183
12/16/15 SOUTHERN UTAH 1836
12/21/15 SAN FRANCISCO 2408
12/28/15 UTAH VALLEY 2113
12/31/15 BRIGHAM YOUNG 3183
01/02/16 UNIVERSITY OF SAN DIEGO 2185
01/14/16 PACIFIC 2983
01/21/16 GONZAGA 3500
01/23/16 PORTLAND 3338
02/11/16 PEPPERDINE 3340
02/13/16 LOYOLA MARYMOUNT 3165
02/25/16 SANTA CLARA 3165
03/01/16 GRAND CANYON UNIV 2735
They trended +3000 once they started really winning in conference -- that's kinda like filling the O'Rena
Quote from: HailVU2014 on March 09, 2016, 08:51:42 PM
Unless some of these teams get at-large bids into the NCAAs, the NIT is full of auto-bids at the moment, 11 as 8:45pm CT on March 9th:
North Florida- Atlantic Sun
High Point- Big South
Hofstra- Colonial
Valparaiso- Horizon
Monmouth- MAAC
Wichita State- Missouri Valley
Wagner- Northeast
Belmont- Ohio Valley
Bucknell- Patriot
Fort Wayne- Summit
St. Mary's- West Coast
Just checked the Sagarin rankings where we have dropped to #51. At the moment, of the teams listed above, we have the 3rd best ranking behind Wichita St (#25) and St. Mary's (#32). I don't see another conference leader with a lower ranking then us. The committee will no doubt add a couple of Power 5 teams ranked higher than us--possibly a Vanderbilt (record 19-12 #19) or Michigan (record 19-11 #37) or even Florida St. (record 19-13 #44). I see us as a 2.
Currently we are all over the place. I have seen us as a NCAA 11 or 12 or a NIT 1 or 2.
Note there are still several conference champions alive that may be in the NIT:
Temple American
VCU A 10
AR-Little Rock Sun Belt
San Diego St MW
Hawaii Big West
Akron MAC
SF Austin Southland
Stony Brook Am. East
UAB C-USA
Weber State Big Sky
New Mexico St WAC
Texas Southern SWAC
Hampton MEAC
Quote from: IndyValpo on March 10, 2016, 12:11:03 PM
Currently we are all over the place. I have seen us as a NCAA 11 or 12 or a NIT 1 or 2.
Note there are still several conference champions alive that may be in the NIT:
Temple American
VCU A 10
AR-Little Rock Sun Belt
San Diego St MW
Hawaii Big West
Akron MAC
SF Austin Southland
Stony Brook Am. East
UAB C-USA
Weber State Big Sky
New Mexico St WAC
Texas Southern SWAC
Hampton MEAC
So if more regular conference champions lose does that improve our chances of getting into the NCAAs? Almost all of those leaders would have seeds lower than we would. It pushes worse teams higher in the seeding but does it help us? One thing is for sure and that is the more conference champs losing in their tournaments the less interesting the NIT will be. The more lower seeds the fewer spots available for Big 5 teams. No disrespect, but the fans at the ARC would much rather see a Big 5 team then Wagner or High Point.
Quote from: vu72 on March 10, 2016, 02:43:57 PMNo disrespect, but the fans at the ARC would much rather see a Big 5 team then Wagner or High Point.
Somebody like a Belmont or an IPFW could happen in the first round (do they avoid rematches?), if we're a two seed. A one seed probably is that Wagner or High Point, or Hampton, etc.
The second round could perhaps be more interesting (gotta win first, obviously), and more likely to depend on how many conference champs get bumped down.
I'll be curious to see how the NIT evaluates the "bubble". It would seem there's a non-zero chance that we get bumped down to a 3 seed or so. It would be hard to imagine playing on the road, but...
And, welcome, UAB.
Quote from: vu72 on March 10, 2016, 02:43:57 PMSo if more regular conference champions lose does that improve our chances of getting into the NCAAs?
Look at it this way:
Is the team that lost a team that would be an at-large team if they weren't a conference champ?
If they are, it would hurt us as it makes the bubble smaller (or at least puts another team on it).
If they aren't, it won't matter, they simply replace one team with another in the "auto-bid only" category.
At this point, we need bubble teams that lead one-bid leagues to win to help whatever tiny chance we may still have. If they are going to be in anyways, don't let another team from that league get in.
Quote from: agibson on March 10, 2016, 02:53:01 PMIt would seem there's a non-zero chance that we get bumped down to a 3 seed or so. It would be hard to imagine playing on the road, but...
Top 4 seeds in each region get home games. If we were a 2, we would be guaranteed two home games, provided we won the first, and could get three if the #1 lost along the way.
As a #3, we would get one, and possibly two or three, again provided we win.
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 10, 2016, 06:19:55 AM
you have many "unless" conditions in your assessment, and the others on the list could say the same thing. I would say St. Mary's, Belmont and Valpo are pretty similar...
It was a very facetious comment.
Seems like a first-round rematch against IPFW or maybe even Belmont -could- happen if that's the best balance of competitive balance, geography, and trying to avoid the rematch (in that order).
A second round home game would be tricky, maybe not impossible, because of the Lutheran Junior High basketball tournament.
If they can't make it work I wonder if they'd consider VHS or the UIC pavilion (hopefully less controversial than the Trump rally!) or something rather than playing a true road game.
Quote from: agibson on March 12, 2016, 12:51:58 PM
Seems like a first-round rematch against IPFW or maybe even Belmont -could- happen if that's the best balance of competitive balance, geography, and trying to avoid the rematch (in that order).
A second round home game would be tricky, maybe not impossible, because of the Lutheran Junior High basketball tournament.
If they can't make it work I wonder if they'd consider VHS or the UIC pavilion (hopefully less controversial than the Trump rally!) or something rather than playing a true road game.
If, for one night or afternoon, Valpo was not playing in the ARC, it would not be right, IMO. For that 3-4 hour time block,
move the LHS tournament to VHS.
Uh, a high school floor isn't the same size. That wouldn't happen.
If we hosted a NIT game, would we draw over 1,500 fans? I'd have to say no.
Quote from: Chairback on March 12, 2016, 04:39:18 PMIf we hosted a NIT game, would we draw over 1,500 fans? I'd have to say no.
A first round game vs a weak automatic qualifier might not do very well but a second round game against Ohio St, Florida St, Virginia Tech, or Alabama might bring in a couple fans.
Quote from: Valpo89 on March 12, 2016, 03:05:00 PM
Uh, a high school floor isn't the same size. That wouldn't happen.
An 84 foot court could be like moving to six fouls. You know, experimentation.
(Wouldn't six fouls have been nice in the semi-final!)
NIT bracketology....
http://www.nycbuckets.com/current-nit-bracketology/ (http://www.nycbuckets.com/current-nit-bracketology/)
Showing the impact of the San Diego State loss last night... bumping us to 2-seed...
hate this bracket since we can't host the second game... if the seeds hold, we would be back in Columbus...as the HOST team against the Buckeyes...
High Point Panthers... (21-10 RPI 158), lost to Texas Tech by 4, lost to Georgia by 3, Lost to NC State by 3... lost to #261 Liberty twice... lost in conference semi's to NCAsheville by 11...
Other 2-seeds: Florida, Syracuse and George Washington
Other 7-seeds: Wagner (21-10, RPI 184), Belmont (19-11, RPI 95) and North Florida (19-11, RPI 161)
.
This NIT Bracketologist has us as a 1-seed...
http://www.dratings.com/predictor/bracketology/ (http://www.dratings.com/predictor/bracketology/)
Other 1-seeds: St. Bonnie, Temple and GW
8-seeds: North Florida, Bucknell, Texas Southern and Wagner
so geographically, we would get Texas Southern
and one more...
http://bracketproject.blogspot.com/ (http://bracketproject.blogspot.com/)
As a 1-seed against North Florida.
Game two being against the winner of Georgia and Creighton...
This one comes with some family fun time for me... Also in the NIT:
Michigan: Daughter works there, son in law alum
Ohio State: Daughter works there, son in law alum
Bucknell: Sister Alum
Syracuse: Nephew Alum
So we would miss our opportunity to host a Big 10 team or Ben Simmons due to a grade school basketball tournament?
Quote from: a3uge on March 13, 2016, 10:16:29 AM
So we would miss our opportunity to host a Big 10 team or Ben Simmons due to a grade school basketball tournament?
Oren article has Valpo still looking at options. But, it would be sad.
http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/valparaiso-university/crusaders-appear-headed-for-nit/article_16df9f44-5c5a-5b96-8c48-9e4f3ee6022e.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/valparaiso-university/crusaders-appear-headed-for-nit/article_16df9f44-5c5a-5b96-8c48-9e4f3ee6022e.html)
And quotes Bryce:
"We've told our guys to plan on playing on Tuesday," Valparaiso coach Bryce Drew said. "Either in Dayton (in NCAA tournament) or in Valpo for the NIT. There's a lot of teams that would love to be in the NIT. There's still a lot to play for."
Quote from: talksalot on March 13, 2016, 08:58:17 AMand one more... http://bracketproject.blogspot.com/ (http://bracketproject.blogspot.com/) As a 1-seed against North Florida. Game two being against the winner of Georgia and Creighton... This one comes with some family fun time for me... Also in the NIT: Michigan: Daughter works there, son in law alum Ohio State: Daughter works there, son in law alum Bucknell: Sister Alum Syracuse: Nephew Alum
And N.Florida has Matt Drisco who I ran into at the airport last year and he coached at Valpo with Scott Drew. Just one more connection for you.
I cannot imagine that the Valparaiso University men's basketball team would be forced to forego an opportunity to host a game in the National Invitation Tournament because of a grade school tournament. We're talking about an opportunity to host - and win - 2 or 3 games in the NIT - the freaking NIT! - for the first time in program history, and we would throw that away because we can't figure out alternative arrangements to meet the needs of a grade tournament for 1 evening? If someone thinks winning games in the NIT isn't important to the program, they should think again. The NIT isn't the CBI or one these other Johnny-come-lately tournaments. It has a rich tradition with some of the biggest names in college basketball having participated. Unlike these other consolation tournaments, the NIT is still followed by the national press. The finals are on national TV and played in one of the greatest basketball venues of all time in the number 1 media market in the United States. If we're not serious about this (and throwing away a home game opportunity would say we're not) then don't get in it at all. I hope we're better than that.
Well said WH. Rental of gyms in town for that 4 hour block should not be a problem But better yet, just plain shutting down the tournament for that block and giving the Lutheran BB teams free tix to the game would be a simple solution. Imagine how big and round those kids' eyes would be be seeing a real, meaningful college game as a part of their participation in their tournament.
I'd like to know why Valpo scheduled the National Lutheran Basketball Tournament when there was a possibility of hosting a game in the NIT or one of the other post season tournaments.
Did the Valpo Athletic Dept feel so assured that the men's basketball team was destined for the NCAA tournament that the idea of hosting an NIT game was not a real possibility? That is certainly not using your noodle to look at the whole realm of possibilities.
In Valpo's, defense, they run this tournament every year, and it's actually fun to check it out. However, this CANNOT be a reason we pass on what could be one of the bigger home games in a long time. If we were too shortsighted to have a rider in the contract to account for this then it is something the AD needs to answer for. I spent all week getting myself revved up for the NIT, and i'm there. I am really and truly excited to go back to the ARC and see this very good team play another game. I will be really upset and disappointed if we have to pass on a March home game for this reason. You have fieldhouses that could handle a half day's worth of games at TJ, BF, and VHS. Not to mention The Courts right on 49. No excuse to not get this done.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 13, 2016, 12:15:30 PM
In Valpo's, defense, they run this tournament every year, and it's actually fun to check it out. However, this CANNOT be a reason we pass on what could be one of the bigger home games in a long time. If we were too shortsighted to have a rider in the contract to account for this then it is something the AD needs to answer for. I spent all week getting myself revved up for the NIT, and i'm there. I am really and truly excited to go back to the ARC and see this very good team play another game. I will be really upset and disappointed if we have to pass on a March home game for this reason. You have fieldhouses that could handle a half day's worth of games at TJ, BF, and VHS. Not to mention The Courts right on 49. No excuse to not get this done.
I happen to know some of the Lutheran educators that have previously been involved in the National Lutheran Basketball Tournament and they have, over the years, become Valpo fans because of the time they have spent at Valpo when Rod Moore, who is a NLBT director, speaks about the Valpo team and the NLBT players see Valpo play on TV and see Rod, himself, on Valpo's bench during his time taking care of Valpo's training needs. I believe these educators involved with the NLBT would do whatever was needed to help Valpo host a home game in the NIT.
I would imagine that Valpo is contractually obligated to host each game at this point. There really should have been a contingency plan already in place for this situation. The fact that the University didn't think this through after a couple decades of this tournament being run is kind of concerning. Or maybe they did and the contingency plan is to just play a road game.
To be honest we'd be screwing the tons of grade school kids who look forward and work hard to get to this event every year. Don't we have a plaque area at the ARC that lists the winners each year. I believe so. I also have to assume we get a facility fee that might be better than anything we get from the NIT.
The NIT is not what it was 15-20 years ago. No one cares about it. It's completely irrelevant.
Not going to the NCAA this year is a huge setback for our program. Probably one of the biggest in the last 20 years. I think it will effect our recruiting big time.
Is there a contract with the grade school teams? Are they paying to use the facilities? Just curious about the terms. ???
Quote from: Chairback on March 13, 2016, 01:02:27 PM
To be honest we'd be screwing the tons of grade school kids who look forward and work hard to get to this event every year. Don't we have a plaque area at the ARC that lists the winners each year. I believe so. I also have to assume we get a facility fee that might be better than anything we get from the NIT.
Honestly who gives a crap about the grade kids. It's Valpo's home court. Even though the NIT wasn't what it was it's still a chance to host a game at home and potentially against a big name, power conference school. You can't tell me that if Valpo is playing at home against Ohio State people aren't going to show up. If Valpo does get to host a game, you reschedule the high school tournament on short notice. You're not screwing the kids out of this tournament. Instead of playing during time A; you play during time B the next day. The Valpo players should without a doubt get precedence over anything that doesn't have to do with Valpo basketball; especially something that has nothing to do with the school. You reschedule the high-schoolers. Plain and simple, if they don't like it too bad.
Quote from: classof2014 on March 13, 2016, 01:22:59 PM. You can't tell me that if Valpo is playing at home against Ohio State people aren't going to show up.
We wouldn't come close to selling it out if they came. Again, no one cares about the NIT. Our season ended with our loss to GB. It's a reality.
Quote from: Chairback on March 13, 2016, 01:02:27 PMThe NIT is not what it was 15-20 years ago. No one cares about it. It's completely irrelevant.
Multiple wins against power conference teams could work some wonders. It took Butler 20 years to become BUTLER and you have to start from where you are standing.
FYI Just saw NIT selection show will be on ESPNU at 7:30.
I don't even pay attention to the NIT and don't really know anyone that does either. I agree our season ended with the loss to Green Bay if we don't somehow sneak into the tourny
Quote from: Chairback on March 13, 2016, 01:29:02 PM
Quote from: classof2014 on March 13, 2016, 01:22:59 PM. You can't tell me that if Valpo is playing at home against Ohio State people aren't going to show up.
We wouldn't come close to selling it out if they came. Again, no one cares about the NIT. Our season ended with our loss to GB. It's a reality.
Can't wait to read your post whining about not being able to beat a "BCS" team when they play on the road.
Also, if we did make the tournament, I'm sure not winning a game would be an enormous setback as well.
I share a lot of disappointment, but here's how I feel about the NIT.
It's going to be played. Someone's got to win. Why not us?
Go Valpo!
Quote from: valpolaw on March 13, 2016, 02:05:23 PM
I don't even pay attention to the NIT and don't really know anyone that does either. I agree our season ended with the loss to Green Bay if we don't somehow sneak into the tourny
You may not care about post season tournaments other than the NCAA, but the coaches and players do. Hardly anyone gives a crap about those garbage December bowl games between 6-6 FBS football teams either but what they do actually provide is extra time for practice and player development prior to next year's spring ball when the season otherwise would have ended for those teams. While basketball and football are apples and oranges the concept applies here in some respects. You're necessarily playing for next year, which is a benefit. String wins along in the NIT to get to the semi-final and you've extended your season by two weeks in a tournament environment. How could this not help?
Dittos on that, Joe. I just had to add some "moe-joe".
I don't know all of the history, but the Lurheran Junior High basketball tournament seems to be a big deal for the LCMS and a reasonably big deal for Valpo. It's history likely predates Valpo being D1. It brings hundreds of junior high schoolers and their coaches and some parents from across the country. They'll have made travel iteneraries and likely many of them won't easily be able to extend their stays by a day.
I suspect that many of the coaches would be very sympathetic to Valpo, surely the flagship of Lutheran basketball, hosting a post-season game. Maybe they'd be open to moving to high schools, middle schools, etc. but it's a lot of logistics to organize. (We may be talking about several games simultaneously for most of the day.)
I don't know how much court time Valpo and the visiting team need, for practice, for setup, for the game, etc.
I have some hope that the problems would be eased I'd Valpo could host the game on what looks like the last day of the second round window, the day after the JH tournament, but there would still be some conflict.
I suspect Valpo would be lucky to get 3,000 on a weeknight even for Ohio State.
I wouldn't love it, but there may be a hard decision made that seeding home team advantage is better than alienating a long-term VU constituency. I would, of course, hope that they talk it over with that constituency first. Maybe Valpo would even prefer the road game to the short turnaround that would come from playing on the last day of the second round window. *shrug*
I don't know how regular this conflict is, and I'm a little surprised it hasn't come up before. Is it maybe linked to Easter, not to the solar calendar? And is Easter awkwardly placed this year?
LBAA IS a big deal to the participants. I officiated in that tournament for almost 30 years. It is also a big deal to the area economy. They block out almost every hotel room in Lake Porter and LaPorte county.... for 4 days. It starts with a tremendous church service in the Chapel for all of the participants on Thursday night.
http://lbaa.org/lbaa-history/ (http://lbaa.org/lbaa-history/)
Let's hope the scheduling issue is actually just a hypothetical. If Valpo does receive a high seed that necessitates a home game, I would hope that everyone will work together to minimize disruptions to all involved teams. I suspect the NIT's flexibility is restricted because of television commitments, but maybe not.
In the end, Valparaiso University is a D-1 UNIVERSITY. As such, university athletics -- especially a postseason invitational tournament -- must have priority. Valpo should have known the general NIT time window years in advance and anticipated the possibility that Valpo could host a tournament as a high seed in the NIT. I suspect something will be worked out to accommodate everyone. It might be a tight-squeeze, but such is life.
They titled it strangely ("Close but NIT") on the selection show, but it seems likely Valpo and Monmouth were "Last Four Out" and thus #1 NIT seeds.
Here's John Templon's take on the bracket, after that news.
[tweet]709156678722314240[/tweet]
But he admits it's tricky to figure out the geography for Valpo, making some attempt to avoid the IPFW and Belmont rematches, but favoring geography. Maybe IPFW anyway? (His pick.) Maybe Bucknell? Maybe Akron?
LSU has announced they won't be participating in the post-season.
Hope not IPFW. They always play us close regardless.
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 13, 2016, 06:37:35 PM
Hope not IPFW. They always play us close regardless.
You're not wrong. Losing as a #1 seed would be a pretty horrible way to end what should have been (still could be, a little?) an epic season. I imagine it's happened before, unlike the NCAA...
Quote from: agibson on March 13, 2016, 06:45:20 PM
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 13, 2016, 06:37:35 PM
Hope not IPFW. They always play us close regardless.
You're not wrong. Losing as a #1 seed would be a pretty horrible way to end what should have been (still could be, a little?) an epic season. I imagine it's happened before, unlike the NCAA...
Not sure IPFW should drop that low but they should work to avoid regular season rematches anyway.
If they see that we've already played them...probably not going to happen... I'm guessing Texas Southern
Lost in all this is the obvious question. Can Tevonn play?
Quote from: justducky on March 13, 2016, 07:34:00 PMLost in all this is the obvious question. Can Tevonn play?
Yes, it was said that all players were prepared and ready to play post season (NCAA or NIT).
Quote from: talksalot on March 13, 2016, 06:51:29 PM
If they see that we've already played them...probably not going to happen... I'm guessing Texas Southern
damn what a good guess... winner to get Florida State / Davidson... all right... I'll be the first to say it... Fla State falls after we win the first one!
Valpo leaked it on twitter. Texas Southern. Well done, talksalot.
[tweet]709175585495490560[/tweet]
A couple of minutes before the selection show said it.
But, man, late tip. 8:15 PM central.
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 13, 2016, 07:37:25 PM
Quote from: justducky on March 13, 2016, 07:34:00 PMLost in all this is the obvious question. Can Tevonn play?
Yes, it was said that all players were prepared and ready to play post season (NCAA or NIT).
That was part of a full-court press lobbying effort. I expect them to dress, but it'll be interesting to see what the roster is.
Bryce talking about it now on ESPNU.
Tevonn expected to play - didn't give more specifics. Nothing about the Jr. High basketball tournament yet.
[tweet]709177236155453441[/tweet]
Belmont rematch in third round? Third times the charm? Would be (back?) at Valpo, unless we can find another conflict.
LSU apparently notified the NIT committee they weren't going to play, not vice versa. They were definitely under consideration.
If Valpo had to play the second game on the road instead of at home, this would be a major failure of leadership in two ways. First, there was no contingency in the contract with the Boys' basketball tournament to protect the flagship athletic program at Valpo. Second, that leadership was not able to find a solution that allowed both events to go on in Valparaiso when other options would seem to be available (obviously at a cost).
For those of you that hadn't noticed this yet, Texas Southern won at Michigan State and Kansas State last year.
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 13, 2016, 08:23:45 PM
For those of you that hadn't noticed this yet, Texas Southern won at Michigan State and Kansas State last year.
and they lost 11 of their 12 OOC games this year... then practically swept all of the 200+Rpi teams in their conference.... including losses to RPI 334 and 333... they did not play a home game until January 2nd!
Just give free upper level tickets to any participant in the LBA tourney...it'll put butts in the seats and keep them happy about having to rearrange their schedule.
Months before the season started it was said we couldn't get a home game in the league tournament. Now we have a chance to host 3 NIT games?
NIT has home games in the tournament? Can we join that conference? :-X :crazy:
It appears that the NIT may have scheduled by true seeding order? Sliding the seeding to avoid travel does not appear to have been their major objective. How does St Mary's get bracketed with us unless we were considered the 4th best and they were the 5th? Also the Florida St - Davidson winner might play here while Akron-Ohio St winner would go elsewhere?
I notice already in the first round there's a top-4 seed on the road:
#2 Florida will play at #7 North Florida due to O'Connell Center renovations.
Quote from: justducky on March 13, 2016, 08:44:10 PMSliding the seeding to avoid travel does not appear to have been their major objective. How does St Mary's get bracketed with us unless we were considered the 4th best and they were the 5th? Also the Florida St - Davidson winner might play here while Akron-Ohio St winner would go elsewhere?
The language in their guidelines includes, "The priority for the committee will be to achieve the best-possible competitive balance in each region, while placing teams as close to their areas of natural interest as possible."
A lot of the first round match-ups are reasonable (and then there's IPFW to San Diego State). But, after that... I'm not sure how much it feels like a "Valparaiso regional" (and I think that's more or less the term they'd use). IPFW probably belonged in our region, playing at St. Mary's.
Can anybody post the full NIT bracket? This could be exciting if we get two or three Big 5 teams at the ARC. We would end up getting more publicity and local acknowledgement if we win those games and get to NYC then playing and winning one game in the NCAAs. The NIT games will be played during the week, not in competition with the NCAA tourney. We might just end up better off. I know, that blasphemy, just my feeling, but first we need to live up to our expectation and get the NYC.
[tweet]709183056612032512[/tweet]
[tweet]709183228167524353[/tweet]
To me, a Monday 2nd round game seems a likely scenario. As #1 seed, we'd host the 3rd round too, so the short turn around is maybe not too big of a deal.
Still need to worry about practice time: for us for four days, and probably an official session for the visitors, but it seems like that should probably be manageable.
Frankly, I don't want to hear another word about a middle school tournament. We are a division one basketball program, number one seed in the NIT, which we have never done before.
The tournament can move, cancel, cry. I don't give a damn. Time to grow up and stop being so small time.
Quote from: vu72 on March 13, 2016, 09:10:37 PMCan anybody post the full NIT bracket?
Not the best, but here's one version
[tweet]709182382839037952[/tweet]
Or
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_National_Invitation_Tournament
Hosting the ACC would be fun, but Davidson has some nice mid-major story lines, and hosting a PFL team would be amusing.
Follow it with the SEC, I suppose. Or Belmont a third time would be a little bizarre. Good mid-major story lines again with St. Mary's, and Aussie connections.
NIT is allowing 6 fouls per player before being DQ'd. Vashil is smiling right now.
Here's a somewhat better, still embeddable, bracket
[tweet]709182529425817600[/tweet]
or
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CdeFwKiWEAAXEGZ.jpg:large
Certainly a tournament we could win. Obviously it would be a pretty sweet run to manage it, five games and all. But, we're a completely legitimate #1 seed. St. Mary's and Monmouth surely both feel like they should win it too, but this could be a good competition. If we can get up for it.
I have said it in the past, but a big danger to losing Bryce has happened. TCU has fired Trent Johnson. A faith-based school in a Power 5, in talent rich DFW and a load of cash to spend/invest with great facilities. It will be an interesting offseason, but I look forward to winning the NIT!
Oren expresses what many of us are feeling: "What is the point?"
http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/inside-vu-sports/valpo-basketball-what-is-the-point/article_6cb44156-e9a3-11e5-b221-a3559337dfe2.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/inside-vu-sports/valpo-basketball-what-is-the-point/article_6cb44156-e9a3-11e5-b221-a3559337dfe2.html)
Another good article:
https://thecauldron.si.com/nevermonmouth-6d2e8a71ea27#.uo7cjckjq
Talks about the fallacy of bad losses, how majors game RPI and then the committee ignores RPI anyways when convenient.
Quote from: valpotx on March 13, 2016, 11:37:32 PM
I have said it in the past, but a big danger to losing Bryce has happened. TCU has fired Trent Johnson. A faith-based school in a Power 5, in talent rich DFW and a load of cash to spend/invest with great facilities. It will be an interesting offseason, but I look forward to winning the NIT!
This is a scary proposition. A power-5 job where Bryce can continue to "openly" live his Christian faith in a major metropolitan area only 87 miles from Baylor. Moreover, he could literally take the entire treasure chest with him, including AP, KC?, and Shane (all eligible to play immediately) and anyone/everyone from the coaching staff. Bryce's stock has continued to rise. He actively pursued the Iowa State job a year ago and nearly got it. This could be his time.
Where that would leave Valpo men's basketball is anyone's guess. At a minimum we would probably still have Derrik, Tevonn, David, Max and Lexus to build around.
Quote from: valpotx on March 13, 2016, 11:37:32 PMI have said it in the past, but a big danger to losing Bryce has happened. TCU has fired Trent Johnson. A faith-based school in a Power 5, in talent rich DFW and a load of cash to spend/invest with great facilities. It will be an interesting offseason, but I look forward to winning the NIT!
I saw that and thought the same thing...But would he like playing his brother two times year and recruiting against him?
Quote from: wh on March 14, 2016, 07:22:53 AM
Quote from: valpotx on March 13, 2016, 11:37:32 PM
I have said it in the past, but a big danger to losing Bryce has happened. TCU has fired Trent Johnson. A faith-based school in a Power 5, in talent rich DFW and a load of cash to spend/invest with great facilities. It will be an interesting offseason, but I look forward to winning the NIT!
This is a scary proposition. A power-5 job where Bryce can continue to "openly" live his Christian faith in a major metropolitan area only 87 miles from Baylor. Moreover, he could literally take the entire treasure chest with him, including AP, KC?, and Shane (all eligible to play immediately) and anyone/everyone from the coaching staff. Bryce's stock has continued to rise. He actively pursued the Iowa State job a year ago and nearly got it. This could be his time.
Where that would leave Valpo men's basketball is anyone's guess. At a minimum we would probably still have Derrik, Tevonn, David, Max and Lexus to build around.
And what's to keep any of these guys from following Bryce by transferring and sitting out a year?
I would hope that Bryce wouldn't give Valpo a death knell, by taking our best players away (unless they really want to leave Valpo). Hopefully, he would be ok with starting fresh with TX recruits. If I left my alma mater, I wouldn't feel good unless I was leaving behind a solid team for one of my assistants to continue.
Quote from: valpotx on March 13, 2016, 11:37:32 PM
I have said it in the past, but a big danger to losing Bryce has happened. TCU has fired Trent Johnson. A faith-based school in a Power 5, in talent rich DFW and a load of cash to spend/invest with great facilities. It will be an interesting offseason, but I look forward to winning the NIT!
I don't quite see it the same way. The Drews have been on record saying that they don't like the prospect of playing each other. I doubt he seriously looks at TCU, as that would mean playing Scott 2 or 3 times a year.
Games we'll be watching (and providing scores) on Tuesday night...
TUESDAY
March 15, 2016 6 p.m. ESPNU No. 1 South Carolina vs. No. 8 High Point
March 15, 2016 6 p.m. ESPN No. 3 Ohio State vs. No. 6 Akron
March 15, 2016 6 p.m. ESPN2 No. 4 Florida State vs. No. 5 Davidson
March 15, 2016 8 p.m. ESPN No. 4 Creighton vs. No. 5 Alabama
March 15, 2016 8 p.m. ESPNU No. 2 Florida vs. No. 7 North Florida
March 15, 2016 8 p.m. ESPN2 No. 3 Washington vs. No. 6 Long Beach State
March 15, 2016 8:15 p.m. ESPN3 No. 1 Valparaiso vs. No. 8 Texas Southern
March 15, 2016 9 p.m. ESPN3 No. 2 San Diego State vs. No. 7 IPFW
March 15, 2016 10 p.m. ESPN2 No. 2 St. Mary's (CA) vs. No. 7 New Mexico State
NCAA ROUND 1
March 15, 2016 5:40p.m. CBS-GROUP No.16 FGCU (20-13) vs No.16 Fairleigh Dickinson (18-14)
March 15, 2016 8:10p.m. CBS-GROUP No.11 Vanderbilt (19-13) vs. No. 11 Whchita State (24-8)
WEDNESDAY
March 16, 2016 6 p.m. ESPN3 No. 1 St. Bonaventure vs. No. 8 Wagner
March 16, 2016 6 p.m. ESPN2 No. 3 Georgia vs. No. 6 Belmont
March 16, 2016 6:30 p.m. ESPN3 No. 1 Monmouth vs. No. 8 Bucknell
March 16, 2016 7 p.m. ESPNU No. 3 Virginia Tech vs. No. 6 Princeton
March 16, 2016 7 p.m. ESPN3 No. 4 George Washington vs. No. 5 Hofstra
March 16, 2016 8 p.m. ESPN2 No. 4 Georgia Tech vs. No. 5 Houston
March 16, 2016 9 p.m. ESPNU No. 2 BYU vs. No. 7 UAB
NCAA Round 1
March 16, 2016 5:40pm CBS Group No.16 Holy Cross (14-19) vs. No. 16 Southern (22-12)
March 16, 2016 8:10pm CBS Group No.11 Michigan (22-12) vs No.11 Tulsa (20-11)
The columns cited above by valpopal and a3uge are very insightful.
With the relative historical parity in today's D-1 college basketball, is there such a creature as a 'bad loss"?
It is the US News effect: Name recognition and reputation (no matter how outdated) supercedes all else.
Quote from: valpopal on March 14, 2016, 02:19:19 AM
Oren expresses what many of us are feeling: "What is the point?"
http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/inside-vu-sports/valpo-basketball-what-is-the-point/article_6cb44156-e9a3-11e5-b221-a3559337dfe2.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/inside-vu-sports/valpo-basketball-what-is-the-point/article_6cb44156-e9a3-11e5-b221-a3559337dfe2.html)
This was a solid piece. More than a little gut-wrenching by the end.
Paul also wrote another piece on the snub and #1 NIT seed. In it he brought up the LBAA conflict. I hope this is resolved by game time tomorrow so that people at the game and those of us watching on ESPN3 will be informed about the next game.
Quote from: WiscoCrusader on March 13, 2016, 09:27:23 PM
Frankly, I don't want to hear another word about a middle school tournament. We are a division one basketball program, number one seed in the NIT, which we have never done before.
The tournament can move, cancel, cry. I don't give a damn. Time to grow up and stop being so small time.
I share this opinion - every word of it.
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 14, 2016, 05:01:32 PM
Paul also wrote another piece on the snub and #1 NIT seed. In it he brought up the LBAA conflict. I hope this is resolved by game time tomorrow so that people at the game and those of us watching on ESPN3 will be informed about the next game.
I [!] don't have much history with following the second rounds of these things. Is it possible that the schedule would need to be discussed first with the second round opponent? So, even if Valpo was ready to host, it might first have to be confirmed.
Quote from: covufan on March 14, 2016, 10:40:27 AM
Quote from: valpotx on March 13, 2016, 11:37:32 PM
I have said it in the past, but a big danger to losing Bryce has happened. TCU has fired Trent Johnson. A faith-based school in a Power 5, in talent rich DFW and a load of cash to spend/invest with great facilities. It will be an interesting offseason, but I look forward to winning the NIT!
I don't quite see it the same way. The Drews have been on record saying that they don't like the prospect of playing each other. I doubt he seriously looks at TCU, as that would mean playing Scott 2 or 3 times a year.
Bryce interviewed for the Iowa State job, correct?
Good to see that at least one major publication tied to a coaching opening, does not see Bryce as a possibility. It seems like Bryce is usually on everyone's list, but the press down here seems to think that TX ties is more important than anything that Bryce could offer.
http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/college/big-12/texas-christian-university/article65924937.html (http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/college/big-12/texas-christian-university/article65924937.html)
LBAA Tournament brackets and game times
https://lbaatournament.org/brackets/?tourn_id=7
https://lbaatournament.org/brackets/?tourn_id=8
Quote from: WiscoCrusader on March 13, 2016, 09:27:23 PM
Frankly, I don't want to hear another word about a middle school tournament. We are a division one basketball program, number one seed in the NIT, which we have never done before.
The tournament can move, cancel, cry. I don't give a damn. Time to grow up and stop being so small time.
I really hope you don't have to explain it to the boys at St Paul's in Fort Wayne, like FWAlum might be forced to do, when they move their tournament away from Valpo.
Members of the St Paul Ft Wayne basketball team
Marks, Isaac
Pancake, Will
Goodwin, Caleb
Evan, Johnston
Baker, Lennox
Gutman, Joe
Sims, Drew
Walker, Rod
Quintana, Chayanne
Craig, Cleevas
Coach Jerry Ratzburg
Look them in the eye and tell them you decided to move their tournament. It's not these boys' fault.
AML talked about the second round game being on the 17th or the 21st. Those dates would not conflict with the tournament.
I got this.
Dear boys of St. Paul,
You're about to live in a country run by someone named either Donald, Ted, Hillary, or Bernie. Whatever the outcome, you should probably get used to disappointment. Also, Christmas is canceled this year.
Thanks!
Vu
Quote from: humbleopinion on March 15, 2016, 06:04:49 AM
AML talked about the second round game being on the 17th or the 21st. Those dates would not conflict with the tournament.
I don't think Thursday the 17th is an option, from the NIT. Last year 2nd round games were Sunday and Monday, with a couple Friday and Saturday. This year's window is the same (last I checked).
Monday may be an option (subject to availability of the court for practice, etc.).
Quote from: bbtds on March 15, 2016, 04:07:51 AM
Quote from: WiscoCrusader on March 13, 2016, 09:27:23 PM
Frankly, I don't want to hear another word about a middle school tournament. We are a division one basketball program, number one seed in the NIT, which we have never done before.
The tournament can move, cancel, cry. I don't give a damn. Time to grow up and stop being so small time.
I really hope you don't have to explain it to the boys at St Paul's in Fort Wayne, like FWAlum might be forced to do, when they move their tournament away from Valpo.
Members of the St Paul Ft Wayne basketball team
Marks, Isaac
Pancake, Will
Goodwin, Caleb
Evan, Johnston
Baker, Lennox
Gutman, Joe
Sims, Drew
Walker, Rod
Quintana, Chayanne
Craig, Cleevas
Coach Jerry Ratzburg
Look them in the eye and tell them you decided to move their tournament. It's not these boys' fault.
Yes, I would catch a lot of flak if this disrupts the LBAA tournament. Not only am I involved with St Paul's but my Godson plays on the Fort Wayne Holy Cross team that I would have to think is a favorite to win the tournament. It is obvious that most of the forum members have no idea what a big deal this tournament is and the good impression it makes for VU on hundreds of kids and their parents. There will be teams from California, Texas, Florida and other far flung locations competing in this tournament. Changing times and locations is not really an option. It has been held continuously at VU for the last 45 years. The tournament started in 1946 and was held at various places including VU prior to 1971 http://lbaa.org/lbaa-history/ (http://lbaa.org/lbaa-history/). If you live in the VU area I would recommend that you go see for your self what a 64 (32 boys and 32 girls teams) team tournament with a winner and consolation bracket looks like, especially the first two days with games going simultaneously on 4 courts in the ARC. The Olympic type processional and devotion in the Chapel on Thursday night is also a real treat. I was shocked the first time I went and was told I needed to get to the Chapel an hour to 45 minutes early if I wanted a good seat. When was the last time you saw the Chapel this full other than graduation?
(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/t31.0-8/11888616_746007702176566_6321262800167135089_o.jpg)
Check out their Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/LutheranBasketballNationalTournament (https://www.facebook.com/LutheranBasketballNationalTournament)
Quote from: FWalum on March 15, 2016, 08:40:39 AMWhen was the last time you saw the Chapel this full other than graduation?
Off the top of my head, Vespers and the opening of the fall semester are always "sell outs" at the Chapel. I joked 2 years ago at Vespers that if half those people showed up to the basketball game I'd be shocked. There were under 2500 people at the ARC at the next day against Loyola Marymount.
Honestly, Valparaiso cannot just cancel the basketball tournament. Beyond the ethical nature of cancelling, there are likely contract issues too. That being said, Valpo cannot play a second round NIT game anyplace other than the ARC. Playing Monday seems like a great option (also has the benefit of not being on the same day as NCAA tournament games). If that cannot be worked out (and don't underestimate the power and inflexibility of TV contracts), then the basketball tournament needs to accept moving to another venue, changing times, etc. Valpo needs to bring options and the basketball tournament needs to be flexible. Keep everything friendly, but a lot of effort needs to be put forth with considerations on future years included in the discussion.
My fear is that the people involved will not put forth the effort and funds necessary to make this all work. Options like moving one of the day's games will require paying for the alternative facilities, busing, etc. These are costs that Valpo would need to cover and should cover if it comes to that. I said before that not finding a workable solution for all parties is a failure of leadership...where leadership requires working effective relationships, developing a wide set of feasible options, and having the resources necessary to execute on the optimal solution.
All kidding aside, there has to be a workable solution, and if the university and LBAA have that good a relationship i'm sure they can make it happen. Start a little earlier in the day, end a little later, half day of games at BF's fieldhouse. Something. With the hostile political climate out there, this is an excellent chance for both sides to show their christianity and work with each other.
All I know is if i'm Bryce and after all i've been through the past few weeks, and ML tells me I have to give up the home court i've earned....i'm having my agent call Stanford that night.
How many of us have looked at the brackets that were previously posted below? If you haven't, please do. And then you try to find a way to make this all work. I confess that it was not until today that I did and was struck by the enormity and tight scheduling involved.
They are not your simple one-and-done brackets. Sunday is jam packed with games from morning to the Boys final starting at 3:30 On Sunday, Hilltop Gym is going full tilt as well as the ARC floor. It's not just a question of moving 1 or 2 games. There are boys and girls finals, 3rd & 4th place games, consolation round finals, etc. -- all on Sunday. The 64 teams represent nearly 1000 players plus coaches and parents. A good portion of that population will be in action in Sunday's events.
There is no room (floor space or locker room) for a game day morning shoot-around/practice much less time to set up for an evening NIT game. And if what was said about LABB travelers taking up every hotel room in a 30 mile radius, any visiting team would not find convenient hotel space except for maybe in Chicago.
I originally thought it would be a simple arrangement to just move the Sunday LABB Finals to VHS to clear Sunday. No way. So, I am now convinced that a Monday night game is the way to go.
I agree that a Monday night second round game is the best option. That said, if TV (or any other party that runs the NIT) does not allow that you must find a solution where Valpo can play at home on Sunday. Anything else sends the wrong message not only to Bryce (and I agree that he may be on the phone to his agent if Valpo cannot play at home), but to any current or future players. It is not hard to imagine Valpo's players taking the court on the road (when they earned the right to play at home) thinking "man, this should be on our home court". Coaches recruiting against Valpo are going to tell future recruits, "what a nice thing Valpo did to not disrupt the middle school basketball tournament. They really are nice people. It is really unfortunate though that they had to make their flagship athletic team play on the road and create such a disadvantage for their players".
Potential attendance at the second round game is not very relevant. The message it sends about the program is most relevant. Additionally, wouldn't it be significantly better to play in front of 2000-2500 Valpo fans without traveling instead of in a foreign stadium with 2000-4000 of their fans?
Hotels? Solve the problem.
All of the other issues (which are admittedly complex)? Solve the problems.
Good leaders solve problems in situations like this. And solving the problems requires enough money to solve them.
Valpo fans should be extremely disappointed if Valpo comes out and says, "we tried to work with ESPN and the NIT to play the game on Mpnday, but they could not support this and unfortunately we will need to play at _____________. We encourage everyone to support Valpo as they try to further advance in the NIT". If this happens, call or send letters to ML and the university president. However, if they work out a solution Valpo fans should contact them and commend them on working through a tough situation.
Quote from: Kyle321n on March 15, 2016, 08:49:17 AMOff the top of my head, Vespers and the opening of the fall semester are always "sell outs" at the Chapel.
Add MLK day, at least. But great to see so many kids in the chapel!
I'm glad FWalum is able to give us a first-person account of the importance and history of the LBAA tournament.
A tough situation, I have good (pretty good?) confidence that the parties involved will work/have worked to find an amicable solution.
I am not as optimistic. KU had ESPN schedule their final home game/senior day at the same time as the Kansas caucuses. Given the caucus times, you could not go to the game and vote in the Democratic caucus and had really tight timing to vote in the Republican caucus. KU asked ESPN to change it and ESPN declined. ESPN will solely make the call on whether Monday is acceptable and has no sympathy towards other issues.
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 15, 2016, 11:38:13 AMESPN will solely make the call on whether Monday is acceptable and has no sympathy towards other issues.
In 2015 the second round was all ESPN/ESPN2/ESPNU. No ESPN3, which the first round utilized, in part (this year and last year). I don't know if it's a _rule_ that second round can't be ESPN3. Presumably ESPN cares less about the game time if it's on ESPN3 (though I do wonder how we got the late tip tonight).
VU might be flexible about the game time on Monday, if practice times can be worked out Sunday (assuming that's mandatory). And Monday should be one of ESPN's two big target days (Sunday/Monday). It seems like reasonable parties (VU and LBAA, if not ESPN?) should be able to figure something out; maybe even if ESPN's not being particularly cooperative.
Can we win tonight's game first?
Remember the Mantra:
_________ THINGS _________
Monday seems like the most logical day to play a second-round game anyway.
Why would ESPN want to go up against NCAA games Thursday through Sunday?
I'm sure VU and Davidson/Florida State could practice somewhere else on Sunday - VHS, BF, The Courts - and then be able to use the ARC Monday morning.
Quote from: talksalot on March 15, 2016, 01:50:50 PM
Can we win tonight's game first?
Remember the Mantra:
__GOOD_ THINGS __HAPPEN__
Alright, instead of baseless speculation let's look at what happened last season in round two games.
| Friday (1 game): | Wednesday team played Wednesday team |
| Saturday (1 game): | Tuesday team played Tuesday team |
| Sunday (3 games): | Tuesday team played Tuesday team |
| Wednesday team played Wednesday team |
| Tuesday team played Wednesday team |
| Monday (3 games): | Tuesday team played Tuesday |
| Tuesday team played Tuesday |
| Wednesday team played Wednesday |
We'd be a Tuesday vs. Tuesday game so there's a 50-50 shot of them playing on Monday vs. Saturday/Sunday. Last year there were 9 Tuesday games and 7 Wednesday games, and we're set up the exact same way. Since there's the LBAA tourney on Sunday, then we'll almost assuredly play on Monday. It's not going to look like we're pushing the game back for a youth basketball tournament, but that's because that's how the NIT works.
Man, the ARC would be bursting at the seams if they could somehow coordinate the LBAA tourney and keep the Valpo v. Davidson/FSU game either Saturday or Sunday night. Wouldn't it be some kind of consolidation if VU said "sorry for the last minute reshuffle, but here's a couple of tickets to get the kids to see Valpo play an ACC team prime time"?
I think the kids could get over that pretty quick... What an unexpected, but great, experience!
I stand by my former statement. If Valpo advances to a game which conflicts with the Middle School tournament, and does not move or cancel the Middle School tournament, myself and thousands of other Valpo fans are done with this program.
You don't forfeit an advanced round NIT home game for anything that has "Middle School" associated with it. You can list all the names you want, they will get over it. Consider it a "life lesson".
THE ANNOUNCERS JUST STATED THAT IF WE WIN TONIGHT WE WILL FACE DAVIDSON FSU ON THURSDAY NIGHT.
Oh my crisis averted...everyone can breathe 8-)
Crisis not only averted... but just think of the 1500 people in town for the LBAA can get tickets to an NIT game... There are a handful of teams from Florida coming in! 6pm tip. Same announcers... not sure of the network.
OH... reported attendance tonight 2,912 Incredible !! and the chairback people were really into the game !!!!!
Quote from: bsmith21 on March 15, 2016, 11:03:20 PM
Valpo and st marys are gonna have to rep for the mid majors. Every mid major that played a major lost today
Wichita State? :)
Quote from: bsmith21 on March 15, 2016, 11:13:37 PM
I thought it was implied that I was talking NIT
Yes, just nice seeing Vanderbilt lose.
Quote from: talksalot on March 15, 2016, 10:46:55 PMCrisis not only averted... but just think of the 1500 people in town for the LBAA can get tickets to an NIT game... There are a handful of teams from Florida coming in! 6pm tip. Same announcers... not sure of the network.
OH... reported attendance tonight 2,912 Incredible !!
That reported attendance appears to have been a true attendance. Looking around my estimate was 3800 which may highlight how inaccurate our regular season announced attendance is.
Quote from: valpo84 on March 15, 2016, 10:29:40 PM
Oh my crisis averted...everyone can breathe 8-)
I do wonder if it was easy or hard.
Network is ESPN News (?!). I was surprised to learn I got it.
Does it require some adjustment to the junior high schedule? Don't they start Thursday?
ESPN/NCAA/NIT don't make a big deal about the windows for games on their web sites, but I thought this was a day before their window. Obviously a day before any of the games last year. I wonder if it was some sort of compromise.
Paul Oren suggests going up against St. Patrick's day and the NCAA will be tough.
Unexpectedly good crowd in the ARC tonight - hopefully holds true Thursday as well. Big chance against an ACC team.
Quote from: justducky on March 15, 2016, 11:19:29 PMThat reported attendance appears to have been a true attendance. Looking around my estimate was 3800 which may highlight how inaccurate our regular season announced attendance is.
3000 might be about right. My thought was 3000 maybe 3500. Bottom of the mezzanine was jammed, but upper part relatively empty.
I was pleasantly surprised, pulling up, how full the parking was. Early arriving too - almost no one walking in when I was, for the last of the VU lineup announcements.
I'm glad so many of you are getting back into this season. Although the NIT is not the dance, it is a well respected forum for displaying who we are as a university and a BB program. It certainly is not a "losers tournament" that the cgi, cit OT whatever they call them are. The NIT field is essentially a mid major showcase and the 32 slots some people advocate as the true first round to the NCAA -- except it's freakin after the fact.
During the telecast a graphic came up of the the winners of I think it was the last 5 NIT champions and three of the five went on to NCAA tourney wins or more the following year. Premise: the NIT is a proven springboard to future success.
Quote from: talksalot on March 15, 2016, 10:46:55 PM
Crisis not only averted... but just think of the 1500 people in town for the LBAA can get tickets to an NIT game... There are a handful of teams from Florida coming in! 6pm tip. Same announcers... not sure of the network.
OH... reported attendance tonight 2,912 Incredible !! and the chairback people were really into the game !!!!!
This could be a very cool thing with all the kids and parents on campus.
Quote from: justducky on March 12, 2016, 05:13:00 PM
Quote from: Chairback on March 12, 2016, 04:39:18 PMIf we hosted a NIT game, would we draw over 1,500 fans? I'd have to say no.
A first round game vs a weak automatic qualifier might not do very well but a second round game against Ohio St, Florida St, Virginia Tech, or Alabama might bring in a couple fans.
Did I spot a disguised Chairback trying to sneak in? Well maybe not but if anybody sees him sneaking around Thursday remind him that he should be home watching the NCAA. ::)
Quote from: Chairback on March 12, 2016, 04:39:18 PM
If we hosted a NIT game, would we draw over 1,500 fans? I'd have to say no.
2,900
Quote from: historyman on March 16, 2016, 12:32:10 AMQuote from: Chairback on March 12, 2016, 04:39:18 PMIf we hosted a NIT game, would we draw over 1,500 fans? I'd have to say no.
2,900
2,900 Joe Louis estimate or for real?
4,000 against Florida St Thursday?
Quote from: justducky on March 15, 2016, 11:19:29 PM
Quote from: talksalot on March 15, 2016, 10:46:55 PMCrisis not only averted... but just think of the 1500 people in town for the LBAA can get tickets to an NIT game... There are a handful of teams from Florida coming in! 6pm tip. Same announcers... not sure of the network.
OH... reported attendance tonight 2,912 Incredible !!
That reported attendance appears to have been a true attendance. Looking around my estimate was 3800 which may highlight how inaccurate our regular season announced attendance is.
The paid attendance for regular season games includes all season ticket holders, whether they show or not. That could account for part of the difference.
NIT SCORES
Tuesday 3/15
St Bonaventure Bracket
4 Creighton 72
5 Alabama 53
Valparaiso Bracket
1 Valpo 84
8 Texas Southern 73
4 Florida State 84
5 Davidson 74
2 St Marys 58
7 New Mexico State 56
South Carolina Bracket
1 South Carolina 88
8 High Point 66
3 Washington 107
6 Long Beach State 102
2 San Diego State 79
7 Fort Wayne 55
Monmouth Bracket
3 Ohio State 72
6 Akron 63 OVERTIME
2 Florida 97
7 North Florida 68
As one of the more outspoken people about the potential conflict with hosting the second round game, I commend the 'parties at be' for finding a very workable solution. I have no idea how difficult it was to work that out, but the Thursday night game solution seems like the best option for all parties. I would think most people have ESPNews (I have it...but had to look) and I am sure that the game is also on ESPN3. While the NCAA first round games and St. Patrick's create a conflict, the potential to include the kids and families from the basketball tournament in the second round NIT game is a bonus. Give them free or $1 tickets! Fill the stadium!
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 16, 2016, 08:48:51 AM
While the NCAA first round games and St. Patrick's create a conflict,
I have a conflict on what to wear. Do you think they'll sell green Valpo gear? I know I'll have my shamrock shirt on, but unfortunately it's not VU related. I might need to wear my Valpo winter hat...
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 16, 2016, 08:48:51 AM
the potential to include the kids and families from the basketball tournament in the second round NIT game is a bonus. Give them free or $1 tickets! Fill the stadium!
I say free to any player or coach and $5 for the families. Get them in the upper deck and we might fill the stadium. I'm sure a family of 4 would love to see a power 5 conference for $15.
Think it would be a great idea to get some of the LBAA familes/players in. Does anyone with a little inside info know if we're actually pushing this? Even if we can't/won't give them discounts are they at least being told?
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 16, 2016, 09:47:05 AM
Think it would be a great idea to get some of the LBAA familes/players in. Does anyone with a little inside info know if we're actually pushing this? Even if we can't/won't give them discounts are they at least being told?
Rod Moore is on the Board of Directors for the LBAA, as is Amanda Johnson (Valpo Undergrad Assistant Director of Admissions).
An e-mail to the parents would be a step toward them knowing. And if we helped book a block of rooms, a letter in the room saying "Welcome to Valpo, come out and support the Crusaders in the NIT vs. Florida St. Thursday, blah blah blah..." would be awesome as well.
Unfortunately, according to the LBAA Facebook page, the opening ceremonies are still going to be held at 6PM in the Chapel. Parking on Campus will be at a premium with both events going on at the same time. Maybe we should let people in free after halftime.
Quote from: FWalum on March 16, 2016, 11:00:13 AM
Unfortunately, according to the LBAA Facebook page, the opening ceremonies are still going to be held at 6PM in the Chapel. Parking on Campus will be at a premium with both events going on at the same time. Maybe we should let people in free after halftime.
Isn't that always the practice?
Quote from: humbleopinion on March 16, 2016, 11:36:19 AM
Quote from: FWalum on March 16, 2016, 11:00:13 AM
Unfortunately, according to the LBAA Facebook page, the opening ceremonies are still going to be held at 6PM in the Chapel. Parking on Campus will be at a premium with both events going on at the same time. Maybe we should let people in free after halftime.
Isn't that always the practice?
Hopefully (1) the service only lasts an hour (or less?) and (2) they will make an announcement at the service that admission to the VU/FSU game id free and to get their butts over there.
Quote from: humbleopinion on March 16, 2016, 11:36:19 AM
Quote from: FWalum on March 16, 2016, 11:00:13 AM
Maybe we should let people in free after halftime.
Isn't that always the practice?
That's my understanding. (Also probably doesn't show up in the attendance statistics; but that's obviously a secondary factor. A distant second!)
Quote from: FWalum on March 16, 2016, 11:00:13 AMUnfortunately, according to the LBAA Facebook page, the opening ceremonies are still going to be held at 6PM in the Chapel.
Perhaps, as a start, someone facebook-savy could comment on their page and invite them to join the game after their opening service?
Quote from: agibson on March 16, 2016, 11:49:23 AM
Quote from: FWalum on March 16, 2016, 11:00:13 AMUnfortunately, according to the LBAA Facebook page, the opening ceremonies are still going to be held at 6PM in the Chapel.
Perhaps, as a start, someone facebook-savy could comment on their page and invite them to join the game after their opening service?
Just did it.
Yesterday: These middle school kids can go shove off!
Today: How can we get these guys to buy tickets to our game?
Like being in high school and seeing the girl you like hanging out with another guy. "(Expletive) him!" "That's her brother." "Hey, man! Come hang out with us!"
Whatever is in Vu's best interest. :)
Quote from: a3uge on March 16, 2016, 01:56:13 PM
Yesterday: These middle school kids can go shove off!
Today: How can we get these guys to buy tickets to our game?
Yep, as long as you're not using the floor when we need it (despite having a signed contract) you guys are all our best buddies.
Virginia Tech up a few over Princeton on ESPNU (7 minutes to go). Take a look at that crowd . Looks to be 80% or better filled.
Quote from: historyman on March 16, 2016, 05:00:40 PMQuote from: a3uge on March 16, 2016, 01:56:13 PMYesterday: These middle school kids can go shove off! Today: How can we get these guys to buy tickets to our game?
Yep, as long as you're not using the floor when we need it (despite having a signed contract) you guys are all our best buddies.
So tired of hearing about this signed contract. I guarantee there is an out clause for significant Division One basketball use of the ARC, and unless you've seen the contract it's ridiculous to assume that out clause doesn't exist.
Quote from: WiscoCrusader on March 16, 2016, 09:38:51 PM
Quote from: historyman on March 16, 2016, 05:00:40 PMQuote from: a3uge on March 16, 2016, 01:56:13 PMYesterday: These middle school kids can go shove off! Today: How can we get these guys to buy tickets to our game?
Yep, as long as you're not using the floor when we need it (despite having a signed contract) you guys are all our best buddies.
So tired of hearing about this signed contract. I guarantee there is an out clause for significant Division One basketball use of the ARC, and unless you've seen the contract it's ridiculous to assume that out clause doesn't exist.
I don't think I've ever seen someone get so worked up over the NIT before.
Quote from: justducky on March 16, 2016, 08:42:10 PMVirginia Tech up a few over Princeton on ESPNU (7 minutes to go). Take a look at that crowd . Looks to be 80% or better filled.
Virginia Tech won 86-81 in OT. I looked it up and Cassell Coliseum holds 9,847 and they called it a packed house. That might turn out to be the best crowd of the NIT tournament. My only point is that not everybody thinks the NIT is a worthless consolation prize.
Quote from: bsmith21 on March 16, 2016, 10:18:07 PMI'd still rather be in the play in game instead of winning the NIT. I don't feel like I'm alone in that opinion.
My son was asking about NCAA-equivalents of winning the NIT.
My initial reaction was that it'd be pretty special, equivalent (in basketball difficulty terms, if not publicity terms) to a sweet sixteen run. Maybe that was too much.
But, I'm pretty sure it'd be better than being on the losing end of a 13-4 game in the NCAA.
It'd be a pretty shiny trophy in the case.
Quote from: a3uge on March 16, 2016, 09:46:52 PM
Quote from: WiscoCrusader on March 16, 2016, 09:38:51 PM
Quote from: historyman on March 16, 2016, 05:00:40 PMQuote from: a3uge on March 16, 2016, 01:56:13 PMYesterday: These middle school kids can go shove off! Today: How can we get these guys to buy tickets to our game?
Yep, as long as you're not using the floor when we need it (despite having a signed contract) you guys are all our best buddies.
So tired of hearing about this signed contract. I guarantee there is an out clause for significant Division One basketball use of the ARC, and unless you've seen the contract it's ridiculous to assume that out clause doesn't exist.
I don't think I've ever seen someone get so worked up over the NIT before.
Maybe you guys aren't aware? This issue has already been resolved, seemingly to the satisfaction of all parties involved. Time to relax and enjoy the moment. :)
Quote from: bsmith21 on March 16, 2016, 10:18:07 PMIf MSG doesn't get more than that it would look pathetic.
Wasn't counting MSG but that is a neutral site so don't anticipate too much better.
Quote from: bsmith21 on March 16, 2016, 10:18:07 PMI'm sure creighton got alot of fans too, but that doesn't change the facts.
BYU also looked near packed.
Quote from: bsmith21 on March 16, 2016, 10:18:07 PMI'd still rather be in the play in game instead of winning the NIT. I don't feel like I'm alone in that opinion.
I don't think you are necessarily wrong but if we had made the NCAA with Tevonn at 70% it is a fair question to ask how far we could advance or if we could advance at all. At the ARC against FSU I like our chances even if Tevonn doesn't leave the bench.
#1 seed St Bonaventure gone! :o Wagner with a 79-75 win.
So two Lutheran schools advance. Huzzah, huzzah.
Quote from: WiscoCrusader on March 16, 2016, 09:38:51 PM
Quote from: historyman on March 16, 2016, 05:00:40 PMQuote from: a3uge on March 16, 2016, 01:56:13 PMYesterday: These middle school kids can go shove off! Today: How can we get these guys to buy tickets to our game?
Yep, as long as you're not using the floor when we need it (despite having a signed contract) you guys are all our best buddies.
So tired of hearing about this signed contract. I guarantee there is an out clause for significant Division One basketball use of the ARC, and unless you've seen the contract it's ridiculous to assume that out clause doesn't exist.
I do happen to know former members of the LBAA board of directors and in the past they have told me how they had to make adjustments to their schedule for the Valpo basketball team. I can't say there is not some kind of "out clause" in the contract but I do know that Rod Moore, being involved in both the Valpo men's basketball team and a director of the LBAA would not have accepted the position on the LBAA board without Valpo being protected from a scheduling issue. Have you ever talked to Rod about this yourself? I have.
I wish you would stop talking about issues you know nothing about.
http://lbaa.org/lbaa-board-of-directors/ (http://lbaa.org/lbaa-board-of-directors/)
Quote from: vu72 on March 16, 2016, 12:03:53 PM
Quote from: agibson on March 16, 2016, 11:49:23 AM
Quote from: FWalum on March 16, 2016, 11:00:13 AMUnfortunately, according to the LBAA Facebook page, the opening ceremonies are still going to be held at 6PM in the Chapel.
Perhaps, as a start, someone facebook-savy could comment on their page and invite them to join the game after their opening service?
Just did it.
I don't see anything on the lbaa facebook page. ... did it get deleted?
Go Valpo!
Quote from: bsmith21 on March 16, 2016, 10:18:07 PM
If MSG doesn't get more than that it would look pathetic. NIT is absolutely a consolation prize. I'msure creighton got alot of fans too, but that doesn't change the facts. I'd still rather be in the play in game instead of winning the NIT. I don't feel like I'm alone in that opinion.
Quote from: bsmith21 on March 16, 2016, 10:51:02 PM
So does the CBI CIT and some tournament that that I played in when I was 8. Ask any tournament team they will tell you that theyd rather get a shot
Wow you are really covering some new ground here. Thanks for enlightening the masses.
As it stands today we are in the NIT and I think you will find that everyone, and I mean everyone, here understands the difference between that and the Big Dance without the lesson from you. It doesn't mean we should not support the team and enjoy that tourney.
Quote from: Smj on March 17, 2016, 06:45:42 AM
Quote from: vu72 on March 16, 2016, 12:03:53 PM
Quote from: agibson on March 16, 2016, 11:49:23 AM
Quote from: FWalum on March 16, 2016, 11:00:13 AMUnfortunately, according to the LBAA Facebook page, the opening ceremonies are still going to be held at 6PM in the Chapel.
Perhaps, as a start, someone facebook-savy could comment on their page and invite them to join the game after their opening service?
Just did it.
I don't see anything on the lbaa facebook page. ... did it get deleted?
Go Valpo!
Russ' heads-up can be found in the "Guest Comments" to the left.
Quote from: IndyValpo on March 17, 2016, 07:09:38 AM
Quote from: bsmith21 on March 16, 2016, 10:18:07 PM
If MSG doesn't get more than that it would look pathetic. NIT is absolutely a consolation prize. I'msure creighton got alot of fans too, but that doesn't change the facts. I'd still rather be in the play in game instead of winning the NIT. I don't feel like I'm alone in that opinion.
Quote from: bsmith21 on March 16, 2016, 10:51:02 PM
So does the CBI CIT and some tournament that that I played in when I was 8. Ask any tournament team they will tell you that theyd rather get a shot
Wow you are really covering some new ground here. Thanks for enlightening the masses.
As it stands today we are in the NIT and I think you will find that everyone, and I mean everyone, here understands the difference between that and the Big Dance without the lesson from you. It doesn't mean we should not support the team and enjoy that tourney.
I might add that in terms of overall potential impact on the program, the snub factor for the last 4 out has kept Valpo in the headlines a lot longer than if we had gotten an at-large. And if we would have gotten a bid to the NCAAT, we would be buried right now among the big name Power 5 schools in terms of publicity. We probably could have gotten an upset win in game one, and some notoriety, but chances are that we'd endure a round of 32 elimination and rapidly disappear from the national radar screen. By receiving the #1 seed in the NIT we have sustained greater national publicity and exposure this week. If we beat the Seminoles tonight, we will be doing it on a national stage and remain on the national radar. If we make it to MSG in NYC we will get primetime national exposure. The Valpo "Brand" has the potential of actually getting more exposure through the NIT than a one and done or even an optimistic two and done in the NCAAT. Bsmith21, you simply cannot lump the NIT in with the other alphabet, pay-to-get-in tournaments that only the participants care about. Yes, it is not the NCAAT, but the NIT, for those who really follow college basketball carries a substantial level of respect and for us right now it might be an even better forum.
But we have to get by the Seminoles first. We did it in 1998. Lets do it in 2016.
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 17, 2016, 08:04:58 AM
Quote from: Smj on March 17, 2016, 06:45:42 AM
Quote from: vu72 on March 16, 2016, 12:03:53 PM
Quote from: agibson on March 16, 2016, 11:49:23 AM
Quote from: FWalum on March 16, 2016, 11:00:13 AMUnfortunately, according to the LBAA Facebook page, the opening ceremonies are still going to be held at 6PM in the Chapel.
Perhaps, as a start, someone facebook-savy could comment on their page and invite them to join the game after their opening service?
Just did it.
I don't see anything on the lbaa facebook page. ... did it get deleted?
Go Valpo!
Russ' heads-up can be found in the "Guest Comments" to the left.
That does not appear in my mobile facebook. ...
Go Valpo!
I went to lookup Lutheran Basketball's facebook page. I put in LBAA facebook and got the Lady Bass Anglers Association's page. Maybe vu72 invited the female bass catchers to the NIT by mistake. ;D
If anyone is interested in watching the live video from the LBAA held at Valpo here is the website:
http://video.lbaatournament.org/ (http://video.lbaatournament.org/)
Quote from: bbtds on March 17, 2016, 09:24:55 AM
I went to lookup Lutheran Basketball's facebook page. I put in LBAA facebook and got the Lady Bass Anglers Association's page. Maybe vu72 invited the female bass catchers to the NIT by mistake. ;D
If anyone is interested in watching the live video from the LBAA held at Valpo here is the website:
http://video.lbaatournament.org/ (http://video.lbaatournament.org/)
No, the Lady Bass Anglers would only be interested in the UDM game. That's because they would have only been interested in catching Paris Bass. ;)
Quote from: a3uge on March 16, 2016, 09:46:52 PM
Quote from: WiscoCrusader on March 16, 2016, 09:38:51 PM
Quote from: historyman on March 16, 2016, 05:00:40 PMQuote from: a3uge on March 16, 2016, 01:56:13 PMYesterday: These middle school kids can go shove off! Today: How can we get these guys to buy tickets to our game?
Yep, as long as you're not using the floor when we need it (despite having a signed contract) you guys are all our best buddies.
So tired of hearing about this signed contract. I guarantee there is an out clause for significant Division One basketball use of the ARC, and unless you've seen the contract it's ridiculous to assume that out clause doesn't exist.
I don't think I've ever seen someone get so worked up over the NIT before.
And I don't think I've ever seen someone who calls himself a Valpo basketball fan get so NOT worked up over the NIT #1 seed before. Looks like home court advantage was something worth fighting for, doesn't it?!?
March 17 7 p.m. ESPNEWS No. 1 Valparaiso 81 No. 4 Florida State 69
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :)
March 18 9:30 p.m. ESPNU No. 2 BYU vs. No. 3 Virginia Tech
March 19 Noon ESPN No. 8 Wagner vs. No. 4 Creighton
March 20 Noon ESPN No. 2 Florida vs. No. 3 Ohio State
March 20 7:30 p.m. ESPNU No. 2 St. Mary's (CA) vs. No. 3 Georgia
March 21 7 p.m. ESPN No. 1 Monmouth vs. No. 4 George Washington
March 21 9 p.m. ESPN No. 1 South Carolina vs. No. 4 Georgia Tech
March 21 11:30 p.m. ESPN2 No. 2 San Diego St. vs. No. 3 Washington
Maybe covered on the other thread, but apparently $1 tickets were offered after the LBAA service. Hundreds came in at half time. Filling most I'd the empty seats in the ARC, with more standing than I remember seeing.
Hopefully good memories for many players, coaches, and families.
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 17, 2016, 08:30:35 AM
Quote from: IndyValpo on March 17, 2016, 07:09:38 AM
Quote from: bsmith21 on March 16, 2016, 10:18:07 PM
If MSG doesn't get more than that it would look pathetic. NIT is absolutely a consolation prize. I'msure creighton got alot of fans too, but that doesn't change the facts. I'd still rather be in the play in game instead of winning the NIT. I don't feel like I'm alone in that opinion.
Quote from: bsmith21 on March 16, 2016, 10:51:02 PM
So does the CBI CIT and some tournament that that I played in when I was 8. Ask any tournament team they will tell you that theyd rather get a shot
Wow you are really covering some new ground here. Thanks for enlightening the masses.
As it stands today we are in the NIT and I think you will find that everyone, and I mean everyone, here understands the difference between that and the Big Dance without the lesson from you. It doesn't mean we should not support the team and enjoy that tourney.
I might add that in terms of overall potential impact on the program, the snub factor for the last 4 out has kept Valpo in the headlines a lot longer than if we had gotten an at-large. And if we would have gotten a bid to the NCAAT, we would be buried right now among the big name Power 5 schools in terms of publicity. We probably could have gotten an upset win in game one, and some notoriety, but chances are that we'd endure a round of 32 elimination and rapidly disappear from the national radar screen. By receiving the #1 seed in the NIT we have sustained greater national publicity and exposure this week. If we beat the Seminoles tonight, we will be doing it on a national stage and remain on the national radar. If we make it to MSG in NYC we will get primetime national exposure. The Valpo "Brand" has the potential of actually getting more exposure through the NIT than a one and done or even an optimistic two and done in the NCAAT. Bsmith21, you simply cannot lump the NIT in with the other alphabet, pay-to-get-in tournaments that only the participants care about. Yes, it is not the NCAAT, but the NIT, for those who really follow college basketball carries a substantial level of respect and for us right now it might be an even better forum.
But we have to get by the Seminoles first. We did it in 1998. Lets do it in 2016.
This is an older post, but it's not true:
(http://i.imgur.com/7s6c8Dy.jpg)
Nothing beats having your name appear on a bracket and having thousands of people look up your school. You literally get more exposure as a 16 seed than being one of the last 4 out and playing deep in the NIT.
Florida leading Ohio St 39-32 early in second half. Covered on ESPN.
Can't argue with statistics. Good call. However, it might be interesting to continue that graph through the NIT finals. I would suspect that Valpo's recognition factor will continue to steadily improve while Iona and APU will plummet after their one and outs. VV Probably will not spike as sharply as those guys, but we will have improving exposure over a longer period --- just my guess. And yes, if we got an at-large and made it to the Round of 32, we' be up there with them or past them. Another contributing factor for the Iona and AP spikes could also be that Valpo actually might have a better recognition factor already among curious fans --- "the Shot" played over and over at every NCAAT and the fact that we got a lot of good publicity coming into the selection process. Not worth further discussion, but I am seeing many posters' opinion of the NIT's status improve as they see the games on TV or online. Crowds are pretty good and into it. As I mentioned very early on, the NIT should never be confused with those other alphabet play to play tournaments.
Quote from: a3uge on March 19, 2016, 04:22:42 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 17, 2016, 08:30:35 AM
Quote from: IndyValpo on March 17, 2016, 07:09:38 AM
Quote from: bsmith21 on March 16, 2016, 10:18:07 PM
If MSG doesn't get more than that it would look pathetic. NIT is absolutely a consolation prize. I'msure creighton got alot of fans too, but that doesn't change the facts. I'd still rather be in the play in game instead of winning the NIT. I don't feel like I'm alone in that opinion.
Quote from: bsmith21 on March 16, 2016, 10:51:02 PM
So does the CBI CIT and some tournament that that I played in when I was 8. Ask any tournament team they will tell you that theyd rather get a shot
Wow you are really covering some new ground here. Thanks for enlightening the masses.
As it stands today we are in the NIT and I think you will find that everyone, and I mean everyone, here understands the difference between that and the Big Dance without the lesson from you. It doesn't mean we should not support the team and enjoy that tourney.
I might add that in terms of overall potential impact on the program, the snub factor for the last 4 out has kept Valpo in the headlines a lot longer than if we had gotten an at-large. And if we would have gotten a bid to the NCAAT, we would be buried right now among the big name Power 5 schools in terms of publicity. We probably could have gotten an upset win in game one, and some notoriety, but chances are that we'd endure a round of 32 elimination and rapidly disappear from the national radar screen. By receiving the #1 seed in the NIT we have sustained greater national publicity and exposure this week. If we beat the Seminoles tonight, we will be doing it on a national stage and remain on the national radar. If we make it to MSG in NYC we will get primetime national exposure. The Valpo "Brand" has the potential of actually getting more exposure through the NIT than a one and done or even an optimistic two and done in the NCAAT. Bsmith21, you simply cannot lump the NIT in with the other alphabet, pay-to-get-in tournaments that only the participants care about. Yes, it is not the NCAAT, but the NIT, for those who really follow college basketball carries a substantial level of respect and for us right now it might be an even better forum.
But we have to get by the Seminoles first. We did it in 1998. Lets do it in 2016.
This is an older post, but it's not true:
(http://i.imgur.com/7s6c8Dy.jpg)
Nothing beats having your name appear on a bracket and having thousands of people look up your school. You literally get more exposure as a 16 seed than being one of the last 4 out and playing deep in the NIT.
Quick---what were last years' 6 Sixteen seeds (including play-in losers) in the NCAA men's basketball tournament?
Just one of them?
Quote from: historyman on March 20, 2016, 02:08:56 PM
Quick---what were last years' 6 Sixteen seeds (including play-in losers) in the NCAA men's basketball tournament?
Just one of them?
North Florida? Vermont?
But who was in last year's NIT finals?
Stanford beat Miami.
Seems like one of those programs used the title game as a boost, while the other is currently searching for a coach.
I want to say Old Dominion and Temple were the other semi-finalists, but maybe I just need to watch less basketball...
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 20, 2016, 01:01:11 PMan't argue with statistics. Good call. However, it might be interesting to continue that graph through the NIT finals. I would suspect that Valpo's recognition factor will continue to steadily improve while Iona and APU will plummet after their one and outs. VV Probably will not spike as sharply as those guys, but we will have improving exposure over a longer period --- just my guess.
Might be good to look at "Valpo" too, but "Valparaiso" and "Valpo" are probably correlated.
I'm new to the google trends interface. Fun to play with! Looking quickly at Valpo, it had significant up ticks in two one-week periods last year, around the NCAA. A relative 100 (it normalizes) the week of the game, and a 48 the week before (March 8-14, 2015). Back to a 36 the week after, possibly consistent with the usual non-event affected range.
March 6-12, 2016 was a 47 on that same scale. March 13-19 lists as a 54, but it warns "partial data". If we win again, we'll see...
Looking over a broader range... you'd want to do some background subtraction, because the "normal" rate of searches on "Valpo" has tripled over the past ten years. (Not sure if that's just the rate of google searches increasing, or says something about Valpo.) But, the biggest-seeming one months spikes are... March 2004 (debatable? data seems to go back only to January 2004 so it's hard to get the context), March 2013, and March 2015. March 2016 (partial data; and OK, that would be any HL tourney attention, bubble watch, etc.) gets an 89 in the monthly view, relative to March 2015's 100.
It does seem that an NCAA appearance doubles our monthly average search hits for "Valpo". But, this year's events have also had a significant effect.
Those three peaks (March 2004, 2013, 2015) are maybe clearer in "Valparaiso", but this year's less so. Google will also try to tailor its results to your topic. For the university, the March 2004, 2013, and 2015 peaks are very clear, but not (yet?) 2016. For the basketball team the current peak is more significant than 2013, and an 81 (already?) compared to 2015's 100.
Interestingly, "Valpo" has sloped distinctly upward over the years, but the other searches I mention have a relatively flat background. Has the nickname become more ubiquitous?
Hard to know how these searches correlate with overall good things for the university. But, it's got to be some flavor of good, valuable, publicity.
Quote from: agibson on March 20, 2016, 02:55:23 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 20, 2016, 01:01:11 PMan't argue with statistics. Good call. However, it might be interesting to continue that graph through the NIT finals. I would suspect that Valpo's recognition factor will continue to steadily improve while Iona and APU will plummet after their one and outs. VV Probably will not spike as sharply as those guys, but we will have improving exposure over a longer period --- just my guess.
Might be good to look at "Valpo" too, but "Valparaiso" and "Valpo" are probably correlated.
I'm new to the google trends interface. Fun to play with! Looking quickly at Valpo, it had significant up ticks in two one-week periods last year, around the NCAA. A relative 100 (it normalizes) the week of the game, and a 48 the week before (March 8-14, 2015). Back to a 36 the week after, possibly consistent with the usual non-event affected range.
March 6-12, 2016 was a 47 on that same scale. March 13-19 lists as a 54, but it warns "partial data". If we win again, we'll see...
Looking over a broader range... you'd want to do some background subtraction, because the "normal" rate of searches on "Valpo" has tripled over the past ten years. (Not sure if that's just the rate of google searches increasing, or says something about Valpo.) But, the biggest-seeming one months spikes are... March 2004 (debatable? data seems to go back only to January 2004 so it's hard to get the context), March 2013, and March 2015. March 2016 (partial data; and OK, that would be any HL tourney attention, bubble watch, etc.) gets an 89 in the monthly view, relative to March 2015's 100.
It does seem that an NCAA appearance doubles our monthly average search hits for "Valpo". But, this year's events have also had a significant effect.
Those three peaks (March 2004, 2013, 2015) are maybe clearer in "Valparaiso", but this year's less so. Google will also try to tailor its results to your topic. For the university, the March 2004, 2013, and 2015 peaks are very clear, but not (yet?) 2016. For the basketball team the current peak is more significant than 2013, and an 81 (already?) compared to 2015's 100.
Interestingly, "Valpo" has sloped distinctly upward over the years, but the other searches I mention have a relatively flat background. Has the nickname become more ubiquitous?
Hard to know how these searches correlate with overall good things for the university. But, it's got to be some flavor of good, valuable, publicity.
I believe the 2004 uptick was actually in November - I think a student at Valparaiso high school was running around with a machete in school or something like that, and it made national news.
Quote from: a3uge on March 20, 2016, 02:24:32 PM
Quote from: historyman on March 20, 2016, 02:08:56 PM
Quick---what were last years' 6 Sixteen seeds (including play-in losers) in the NCAA men's basketball tournament?
Just one of them?
North Florida? Vermont?
But who was in last year's NIT finals?
Hampton, Manhattan, North Florida, Robert Morris, Coastal Carolina & Lafayette.
Quote from: a3uge on March 20, 2016, 03:08:53 PMI believe the 2004 uptick was actually in November - I think a student at Valparaiso high school was running around with a machete in school or something like that, and it made national news.
The March 2004 is 62, relative to March 2015's 100. The November peak is "only" 54.
(http://i.imgur.com/5YQT5MT.png)
Here's Valpo (resolution of calendar months)
(http://i.imgur.com/5iUFN6y.png)
And here's the weekly level since last February
(http://i.imgur.com/yvazogv.png)
This "valparaiso" business is tricky with the city in Chile, of course. Not to mention the city in Indiana. Restricting to the US helps, but, after that, does one trust google to distinguish?
It seems like the NIT so far is probably doing something for "valpo" (more sports related?). But, it does seem like, so far, it's not nearly as impressive as an NCAA bid.
Just two more graphs, at least for now!
Comparing to the other schools mentioned, on the 10-year time frame (calendar month data points):
(http://i.imgur.com/mX5Rv4U.png)
and the last 13 months or so, weekly data points:
(http://i.imgur.com/Claz6eL.png)
(Yeah! Data!)
er uh.... back on target... looks like Valpo may be the only #1 seed to survive the Round of 16...
St. Bonnie gone in Round 1 to Wagner
Monmouth gone in round 2 to Geo Washington 87-71
So Carolina is about to be gone in Round 2 to GaTech... Wreck leading 67-36 with 10:30to play
Region 1:
Tuesday Night: #4 Creighton @ #2 BYU
Region 3:
#4 Georgia Tech will travel to either #2 San Diego State or #3 Washington on Wednesday night
Region 4:
#4 George Washington travels to Gainesville to take on the #2 Gators
Quote from: talksalot on March 21, 2016, 09:30:46 PMMonmouth gone in round 2 to Geo Washington 87-71
It was not close. I think the Massey number on Monmouth (about 62nd ?) was better than the selection committees opinion.
Quote from: talksalot on March 21, 2016, 09:30:46 PMSo Carolina is about to be gone in Round 2 to GaTech... Wreck leading 67-36 with 10:30to play
South Carolina suspended a number of players for this game and it shows.
I fear #2 St Mary's then #2 BYU then #2 Florida. All will be very very difficult.
South Carolina suspended a number of players for this game and it shows.
Here's the story...
http://www.thestate.com/sports/college/university-of-south-carolina/usc-mens-basketball/article66217612.html (http://www.thestate.com/sports/college/university-of-south-carolina/usc-mens-basketball/article66217612.html)
This is shaping up to be a fun final 8. I would look forward to us playing any of these teams.
Quote from: talksalot on March 21, 2016, 09:50:19 PM
South Carolina suspended a number of players for this game and it shows.
Here's the story...
http://www.thestate.com/sports/college/university-of-south-carolina/usc-mens-basketball/article66217612.html (http://www.thestate.com/sports/college/university-of-south-carolina/usc-mens-basketball/article66217612.html)
I encourage you to listen to Frank Martin talk about the privilege of playing basketball at a division 1 school. I wish more college coaches thought like Frank Martin. It has to be about more than just winning.
Quote from: justducky on March 21, 2016, 09:43:10 PM
South Carolina suspended a number of players for this game and it shows.
For the whole post-season, apoarently, from talksalot's link. Backup PG, redshirted, role players. But it has to be a big psychological hit and meant they only dressed 9.
Elsewhere in the NIT, in the (very) late game San Diego State beat Washington by 15 in San Diego, apparently on the strength of stifling interior defense. So, all of the other brackets end in 2-4 matchups.
FWIW: CBS sportscaster Frank Cusumano reports St. Louis has contacted Bryce's representatives about their coaching position, but nothing happens until Valpo finishes with the NIT.
Saw Monmouth's gym on TV, and it's actually pretty awesome. It was build in the past 10 years, but is set up kind of like the ARC. All the seats actually contract to set up a large practice area. The seats appear to be plastic, so nothing too fancy.
(http://www.irwinseating.com/assets/Uploads/install-images/Arenas/_resampled/SetWidth800-Monmouth-Univ-wide.jpg)
(http://www.irwinseating.com/assets/Uploads/install-images/Arenas/_resampled/SetWidth800-Monmouth-Univ-PSM.jpg)
(http://www.monmouth.edu/uploadedImages/Content/University/faculty-and-staff/offices-and-services/campus-planning/MNMTHU033.jpg)
(http://www.nj.gov/state/njfilm/images/mon_West-Long-Branch_Monmouth-University-Multipurpose-Activity-Center-1.jpg)
(http://www.nj.gov/state/njfilm/images/mon_West-Long-Branch_Monmouth-University-Multipurpose-Activity-Center-2.jpg)
Valpo could totally do this with the ARC. They'd just need to move concessions to a proper area.
Great pics. I agree something like this could work in the ARC. In truth, for all the talk, we don't need a new arena. More and more schools when they build something new build off campus. I love the location(could use a little more parking). Strip the lower level and do something similar to Monmouth or the Orena. Build a concession stand that opens up on the track above the loading dock or chairback entrance, and add that new LED style lighting. Great, glad that's cleared up. Everyone get in your couch cushions and see if we can rustle up a few mil.
Quote from: valpopal on March 22, 2016, 11:43:07 AM
FWIW: CBS sportscaster Frank Cusumano reports St. Louis has contacted Bryce's representatives about their coaching position, but nothing happens until Valpo finishes with the NIT.
I would hope that he wouldn't leave us for a St. Louis. While they have a solid stadium, are in a large city, and have that private school freedom that he would enjoy, I don't see it as much of a step up over our program. He can do better than St. Louis, and if he were to leave, I would hope that it is for a Power 5, not an A-10 school.
Quote from: valpotx on March 22, 2016, 01:55:18 PM
Quote from: valpopal on March 22, 2016, 11:43:07 AM
FWIW: CBS sportscaster Frank Cusumano reports St. Louis has contacted Bryce's representatives about their coaching position, but nothing happens until Valpo finishes with the NIT.
I would hope that he wouldn't leave us for a St. Louis. While they have a solid stadium, are in a large city, and have that private school freedom that he would enjoy, I don't see it as much of a step up over our program. He can do better than St. Louis, and if he were to leave, I would hope that it is for a Power 5, not an A-10 school.
I agree. I don't think Saint Louis fits Bryce any better than DePaul.
SLU is a better job than DePaul. DePaul's hoop rpgram is a complete travesty.
Didn't SLU pay Majerus close to $750,000 or something like that? If the money is right - Bryce will leave. Everyone has a price. With that said, Bryce has a permanent, low pressure job here at Valpo. I don't think he'd leave for SLU.
Quote from: a3uge on March 22, 2016, 04:53:03 PMDidn't SLU pay Majerus close to $750,000 or something like that?
Thats sounds about right, consistent with their IRS 990 from a few years back. I don't see Crews on their more recent forms, putting him below $660k or so, probably. But, of course, comepnsation packages and accounting can be complicated.
Bryce has had bigger financial offers before, right?
But, this seriously belongs in its own thread. Which I can then attempt to ignore.
Quote from: bbtds on March 22, 2016, 04:08:07 PM
Quote from: valpotx on March 22, 2016, 01:55:18 PM
Quote from: valpopal on March 22, 2016, 11:43:07 AM
FWIW: CBS sportscaster Frank Cusumano reports St. Louis has contacted Bryce's representatives about their coaching position, but nothing happens until Valpo finishes with the NIT.
I would hope that he wouldn't leave us for a St. Louis. While they have a solid stadium, are in a large city, and have that private school freedom that he would enjoy, I don't see it as much of a step up over our program. He can do better than St. Louis, and if he were to leave, I would hope that it is for a Power 5, not an A-10 school.
I agree. I don't think Saint Louis fits Bryce any better than DePaul.
Although Homer grew up in Webster Groves, a suburb of St Louis, I don't believe Bryce has any St Louis connections.
Quote from: valpopal on March 22, 2016, 11:43:07 AM
FWIW: CBS sportscaster Frank Cusumano reports St. Louis has contacted Bryce's representatives about their coaching position, but nothing happens until Valpo finishes with the NIT.
If I'm Bryce, I at least think about the St Louis job. I'm not sure it is a full step ahead of where he has the Valpo program at this time.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That's a cool stadium and I could see the ARC being renovated to look like that. I noticed the luxury sweets.
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 22, 2016, 09:37:51 PM
That's a cool stadium and I could see the ARC being renovated to look like that. I noticed the luxury sweets.
Sort of like the box of chocolates that Billy Donlon had to deal with. ;)
If Valpo wins the NIT, there has to be serious actions for a significant ARC upgrade. The school is growing and the basketball program represents the school very well. The program and the university needs an upgraded athletics facility.
I'd say if Valpo was a finalist, win or lose.......
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 23, 2016, 08:08:42 AM
I'd say if Valpo was a finalist, win or lose.......
Is that what the chinese think? How do you say that in Mandarin? Wontonese? ;)
Time for bed?
I have no idea. Just managing hello and thank you are major efforts. Can't even get to Google translator here otherwise I would have written GO VALPO in Mandarin ;D
So no high majors making the trip to NYC? Representatives from the Horizon, WCC, A10, and MWC. I thought the CIT and CBI were the "mid-major tournaments!" ;)
Quote from: govalpogo on March 23, 2016, 10:58:31 PMSo no high majors making the trip to NYC? Representatives from the Horizon, WCC, A10, and MWC. I thought the CIT and CBI were the "mid-major tournaments!"
Well if teams like Pitt, Michigan, Syracuse and Vanderbilt had been in the NIT where they belonged then the BIGs might have been a bit more competitive. :thumbsup:
Quote from: govalpogo on March 23, 2016, 10:58:31 PM
So no high majors making the trip to NYC? Representatives from the Horizon, WCC, A10, and MWC. I thought the CIT and CBI were the "mid-major tournaments!" ;)
Make no mistake, when you look at national fan bases, enrollment, facilities and athletic programs, BYU is a major competing in a mid major conference. Football independence put them there. Even though they are technically not P5, I see it as Valpo competing against its second P5 program in this tournament.
Bryce at NIT Press Conference.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaCp7tHT3tQ
GW reminds me a bit of Wright State. Not terribly athletic but disciplined and fundamentally sound. Of course the fact that SDS couldn't hit a shot if the basket was six feet wide may be making GW look better than they are.
George Washington wiping the floor with SDSU. Definitely not what I was expecting. GW doesn't have the flash of BYU but they're playing so well.
SDS playing maybe the worst offensive game I've seen this year. Their shooting beyond about 5feet is virtually non existent. And their defense based on this game is highly overrated. Hard to say how good GW really is.
Quote from: nkvu on March 29, 2016, 09:57:44 PMSDS playing maybe the worst offensive game I've seen this year. Their shooting beyond about 5feet is virtually non existent. And their defense based on this game is highly overrated. Hard to say how good GW really is.
Unless SDSU pulls a TA&M, GW will have won 4 in a row over quality opponents. If nothing else, they have momentum (as we do too)
I hope Valpo's experience against BYU's 1-3-1 defense prepared them for GW because they will definitely see it. But I have to say SDS had plenty of open looks from three that they bricked or didn't take. We are a much better shooting team than SDS that went what 3 for 22 from 3? If we hold GW under 70 in the final I like our chances.
I agree, looks like we better work on our offense against the 1 3 1 zone. Thought it really gave us fits against BYU and if I were GW I would continue doing exactly what they did against SDSU.
We will need to do more than just lobbing over the top (which never worked) or shooting 3's.
I can only say this about GW, DePaul best them ' nuff said. All kidding aside, they were playing a team like us, with a contrasting style. San Diego St., is a defensive minded team and from what I saw from some earlier games, does not have the ability to come from behind when dealt a huge deficit.
We are like SD St. in that we are defensive minded but we more offensive skill that can help us if needed if we fall behind early. On the other hand, can GW deal with our size down low and if we jump on them early, can they find it within to comeback? To me, this is the opponent I want and an opponent we can beat. I felt BYU was the toughest matchup wise for us out of the 4 remaining.
It seemed from the posts I've read that all of the semi finalists had trouble with FG accuracy. That could be the MSG environment. The bowl there is rather flatish. That plays mind tricks with depth and background. But GW and Valpo now have a game under their belts in that venue, so I look for a better FG% from us a least, and if we play lock down D, it won't matter on the GW side. Alec will not have that cold a night twice in a row.
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 30, 2016, 03:04:35 AM
It seemed from the posts I've read that all of the semi finalists had trouble with FG accuracy. That could be the MSG environment. The bowl there is rather flatish. That plays mind tricks with depth and background. But GW and Valpo now have a game under their belts in that venue, so I look for a better FG% from us a least, and if we play lock down D, it won't matter on the GW side. Alec will not have that cold a night twice in a row.
That was the narrative from the HL tournament - but did it hold true for the NIT? I've not compared with season averages, but I didn't think that Valpo or even BYU had _particularly_ poor shooting numbers (turnovers, yes). Sounds like San Diego State did have a horrible shooting night.
Quote from: agibson on March 30, 2016, 01:12:30 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 30, 2016, 03:04:35 AM
It seemed from the posts I've read that all of the semi finalists had trouble with FG accuracy. That could be the MSG environment. The bowl there is rather flatish. That plays mind tricks with depth and background. But GW and Valpo now have a game under their belts in that venue, so I look for a better FG% from us a least, and if we play lock down D, it won't matter on the GW side. Alec will not have that cold a night twice in a row.
That was the narrative from the HL tournament - but did it hold true for the NIT? I've not compared with season averages, but I didn't think that Valpo or even BYU had _particularly_ poor shooting numbers (turnovers, yes). Sounds like San Diego State did have a horrible shooting night.
Overall, probably not I guess, but that last 8 minutes was really frustrating as I watched game tracker record miss after miss (except for David's three at the end ;D ). We did hit FGs for 51% in the first half, but, not seeing the game, I don't know if that was because of a lot of easy close-in FGs in the first half vs. longer shots in the second or what. But there was a definite accuracy drop off in the second half. We didn't hit FTs like we usually do either :(
From the box score:
FGs1st half - 15/29 51.7% 2nd half -
11/32 34.4% TOTAL - 26/61 42.6%
3PT FGs1st half - 7/12 58.3% 2nd half -
4/16 25.0 % TOTAL - 11/28 39.3%
FTs1st half -
7/13 53.8% 2nd half -
2/4 50.0% TOTAL -
9/17 52.9%
Glancing quickly back at google trends. I've not looked at all systematically but, the picture on "overall searches for the university" may not have changed so much. Some uptick, but nothing as significant as an NCAA appearance.
But, here's one fun one. Google's own identification of searches (no idea of definition) specifically for the basketball team. I don't think I posted this search in the last batch, but my recollection is that it's improved considerably since that time.
The spike is the month of March, 2016. Nearly as may as our all-time high, in March 2015, our last NCAA appearance.
(http://i.imgur.com/dri1Y3U.png)
These comments are more than a little late, but I've been contemplating them for a while. It has to do with the overall impact of the NIT on Valpo's reputation and, more importantly, Valpo's image with future students and their parents.
When we started out as an NIT invite, we all thought we had been passed by and, for the most part, our chance to showcase our school and team to the nation had been last. in hindsight, that couldn't be farther from reality, and here's why.
Valpo is viewed by most, as the preeminent Lutheran university in the country in the same way as ND is to Catholics or Baylor is to Baptist. You can add appropriate schools, but you get the picture. Before people start getting their spikes on to jump on me, I'm not saying Valpo has a national reputation like ND or Baylor, just that from a Lutheran standpoint it stands at a level above other Lutheran institutions. Again, not saying that all of our academic programs are superior to, say, a St. Olaf, but from a recognition standpoint, probably exclusively because of our basketball program, we are at a different level.
From an enrollment standpoint Valpo has at least as many Lutheran students as any other school but that pool is shrinking for all institutions. While many here may not care about the Lutheran enrollment at Valpo, it remains a big part of our stated goals and very important to many influential alumni. So back to the NIT.
To me, the most important game was the win over Florida State. Sure, the run to NYC was cool and we also gained lots of TV exposure which will no doubt help with recruiting. Still, the FSU game was more important and here's why:
The Lutheran grade school tourney was in town and those folks packed the ARC. Those folks were mostly Lutheran with Lutheran kids. I'm guessing that many of the parents, and many of the kids as well, didn't really know that Valpo played basketball at the highest level. They might have known that Valpo played basketball and that at some distant point in the past something happened which people at their work may remember. But that walk from the chapel to the ARC on that cold evening, looking for something to do to fill the night, opened their collective eyes to what Valpo basketball and part of the Valpo college experience were all about. No visit in the future to other Lutheran campus' will provide such an experience. The ARC was packed, that was cool. Someone mentioned that the game was on ESPN, that was really cool. Then they realized that Valpo wasn't playing Concordia River Forest. Valpo was playing, and soundly beating frickin FLORIDA STATE!! They won't forget that.
So that's it. From a core appeal to future Lutheran students, that game may have had a much bigger impression than going to the NCAAs and even winning a game. It was a once in a lifetime chance to appeal to hundreds of kids and their parents in a way that may or may not get them to look further at Valpo but their conversations when reaching home may do as much, if not more in that regard.
Good point 72. And then some of those Luderans followed Valpo to MSG on national TV and said to themselves: Wow, we were on campus there. Its a cool place.
Quote from: VULB#62 on May 02, 2016, 10:22:08 PMLuderans
Is that the Swedish/Norwegian pronunciation?
Quote from: vu72 on May 02, 2016, 09:31:12 PMThe ARC was packed, that was cool. Someone mentioned that the game was on ESPN, that was really cool. Then they realized that Valpo wasn't playing Concordia River Forest. Valpo was playing, and soundly beating frickin FLORIDA STATE!! They won't forget that.
I know that my Godson and his friends who played in the tournament thought that it was really cool and he has asked for and received several Valpo apparel items since that time!
George Washington coach under fire for his handling of players.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/gw-basketball-players-report-coachs-verbal-and-emotional-abuse-many-fled-school/2016/07/21/b7d5bd12-4dae-11e6-a7d8-13d06b37f256_story.html#comments (https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/gw-basketball-players-report-coachs-verbal-and-emotional-abuse-many-fled-school/2016/07/21/b7d5bd12-4dae-11e6-a7d8-13d06b37f256_story.html#comments)
http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2016/07/21/report-gw-players-allege-verbal-emotional-abuse-from-lonergan/ (http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2016/07/21/report-gw-players-allege-verbal-emotional-abuse-from-lonergan/)
USAToday picked it up too.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2016/07/21/george-washington-basketball-players-report-verbal-emotional-abuse-mike-lonergan/87384568/
Surprised that players would play so hard for a coach that they thought was treating them in the manner described in those articles.
are millenial feelings being hurt?
Quote from: usc4valpo on July 26, 2016, 09:03:32 PM
are millenial feelings being hurt?
I would call it a generational difference in ways of relating the needs of a basketball team. Those coaches who don't adjust such as Lonergan and Swoopes will suffer the consequences.
Quote from: bbtds on July 27, 2016, 01:02:46 AM
Quote from: usc4valpo on July 26, 2016, 09:03:32 PM
are millenial feelings being hurt?
I would call it a generational difference in ways of relating the needs of a basketball team. Those coaches who don't adjust such as Lonergan and Swoopes will suffer the consequences.
Booooo to you two! The players are complaining about behavior that, if true, is inappropriate and hostile. It was certainly not a part of any coaching experience I've had.
We discussed this re: Wardle and there was pretty uninimity that his behavior was totally unprofessional and unacceptable. There are ways to motivate and really push today's players to be the best they can be. Personal denegration is not one of them
The team that we lost to in the NIT finals George Washington just fired their head coach Mike Lonergan for being verbally and emotionally abusive to his players. They've been a pretty good team the last few years and I just thought pass it a long.
https://twitter.com/ESPNAndyKatz/status/776989012590366720
https://twitter.com/ESPNAndyKatz/status/776990843299258368
https://twitter.com/ESPNAndyKatz/status/777001453865013248
https://twitter.com/ESPNAndyKatz/status/777124235487698944
https://twitter.com/hajjmalikturner/status/777121114371854337
https://www.instagram.com/p/BKdPoBqATEN/
https://www.instagram.com/p/BKdPMcqg31H/?taken-by=hajjmalikturner
Mike Lonergan fired as George Washington head coach amid probe
ESPN.com news services
George Washington has fired men's basketball coach Mike Lonergan, sources with direct knowledge of the situation confirmed to ESPN's Andy Katz on Friday night.
As of Saturday morning multiple coaches on the staff and the players had not been informed by the school of Lonergan's firing, according to a source.
The decision comes two months after the university opened an investigation into allegations Lonergan was verbally and emotionally abusive to his players.
The university brought in outside counsel as part of the investigation, saying it was "undertaking a Title IX review" but that "some of the reported allegations go beyond the scope of Title IX."
In a report by The Washington Post in July, multiple former players and staff members said Lonergan, 50, routinely abused his players verbally and emotionally in his assessments and critiques of them, creating an offensive environment and causing many of them to leave the program as a result.
According to The Post, Lonergan told one athlete he belonged in a "transgender league" and suggested that another's son would forever rely on public assistance.
One former player, according to The Post, said he needed therapy to cope after his time playing for Lonergan.
Lonergan's attorney, Scott Tompsett, denied the allegations, telling ESPN in July that the Post article was "full of lies and half-truths."
USA Today was first to report news of Lonergan's firing on Friday.
The move left members of the George Washington staff in shock, sources told ESPN's Katz.
According to the sources, the team -- which has eight new players, including seven freshmen -- and staff had developed great chemistry during a summer trip to Japan and were excited about the upperclassmen leadership for the season.
A source told ESPN that Lonergan left campus at midday Friday and didn't tell anyone why. George Washington also had a recruit on campus for an official visit Friday and Lonergan unexpectedly didn't show up for dinner with him, a source said.
If the Colonials keep the job in house on an interim basis the favorite would be associate head coach Hajj Turner, according to a source.
Lonergan led the program to the NCAA tournament in 2014 and the NIT championship last season. Thirteen players transferred from George Washington in Lonergan's five-year tenure.
Information from ESPN's Jeff Goodman, Jeff Borzello and Myron Medcalf was used in this report.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/17566497/mike-lonergan-fired-george-washington-men-basketball-coach