Conference realignment has already pillaged two charter members and the marquee basketball program from the Horizon League in recent years. Both Loyola and Butler departed before the first few rounds of realignment settled to a halt.
Now, with rumors of the Big 12 looking to add members, conference realignment may become a reality once more. Any moves the Big 12 may make would be based on what a school could do to enhance the conference's football profile. Certainly no schools in the Horizon League even come close to fulfilling the Big 12's football needs. But, the trickle down effect of Big 12 expansion could result in the Horizon League losing schools to other conferences looking to replenish their ranks.
Which schools are the likely movers? Just about every school would jump at the chance to move to a higher profile basketball conference. But who is currently poised to make the leap?
Milwaukee Panthers :crazy:
The Panthers could be a target for conferences looking to expand. Milwaukee basketball is generally around the top of the Horizon League standings and would add value to a basketball-centric conference. But, realignment is heavily based on the potential media market each school brings. Milwaukee is big enough city to get the Panthers in that discussion, but with Marquette and Wisconsin nearby, it could be an obstacle.
Milwaukee could be a fit for the Missouri Valley should they decide to expand. Wichita State has recently expressed a desire to bring back its football program and leave the Missouri Valley. The conference would likely want to replace Wichita State or could bring in teams preemptively.
Valparaiso Crusaders :thumbsup:
Valparaiso certainly has seen a great deal of success on the basketball court in recent years. They bring a high profile name among mid-major circles to the table. Valparaiso also is close enough to potentially draw some of the interest from the Chicago media market. Valparaiso's athletic facilities would likely need to improve for a conference to consider adding the Crusaders though.
Rumor had it that Valparaiso was among the final schools considered by the Missouri Valley the last time they expanded. Of course, Loyola was ultimately chosen, but Valparaiso would once again be a quality choice if the Missouri Valley does decide to expand.
UIC Flames :crazy:
Like Valparaiso, UIC was rumored to be a finalist in the last round of Missouri Valley expansion. The Flames have excellent athletic facilities and are located in Chicago, which would make them a prime candidate. Unfortunately, UIC has also struggled on the basketball court recently, but they have the resources to make a comeback in a big way.
While the Missouri Valley was previously interested in UIC, the conference already added cross-town rival Loyola. They may not be looking to another school in Chicago.
Overall
Two potential scenarios seem to put the Horizon League in danger of losing programs once again to realignment. The first would be the chain reaction set off by the Big 12 and then the AAC expanding. If those conferences suddenly start adding members of other conferences, it could quickly open up movement in Conference USA, the MAC, and other leagues across the conference. As a result, the Horizon League could suddenly be an option.
The other scenario is the Missouri Valley looking to beef up its numbers as a preventive measure to Wichita State departing. The MVC was rumored to have courted several Horizon League schools during the last expansion and could turn to the league again. Keep an eye out for further developments on both scenarios in the coming weeks as conferences hold yearly meetings.
http://www.midmajormadness.com/2016/6/10/11890236/could-any-horizon-league-teams-conference-expansion-missouri-valley-big-12-aac (http://www.midmajormadness.com/2016/6/10/11890236/could-any-horizon-league-teams-conference-expansion-missouri-valley-big-12-aac)
Quote from: oklahomamick on June 10, 2016, 10:55:26 AM
Conference realignment has already pillaged two charter members and the marquee basketball program from the Horizon League in recent years. Both Loyola and Butler departed before the first few rounds of realignment settled to a halt.
Now, with rumors of the Big 12 looking to add members, conference realignment may become a reality once more. Any moves the Big 12 may make would be based on what a school could do to enhance the conference's football profile. Certainly no schools in the Horizon League even come close to fulfilling the Big 12's football needs. But, the trickle down effect of Big 12 expansion could result in the Horizon League losing schools to other conferences looking to replenish their ranks.
Which schools are the likely movers? Just about every school would jump at the chance to move to a higher profile basketball conference. But who is currently poised to make the leap?
Valparaiso Crusaders :thumbsup:
Valparaiso certainly has seen a great deal of success on the basketball court in recent years. They bring a high profile name among mid-major circles to the table. Valparaiso also is close enough to potentially draw some of the interest from the Chicago media market. Valparaiso's athletic facilities would likely need to improve for a conference to consider adding the Crusaders though.
Rumor had it that Valparaiso was among the final schools considered by the Missouri Valley the last time they expanded. Of course, Loyola was ultimately chosen, but Valparaiso would once again be a quality choice if the Missouri Valley does decide to expand.
Two potential scenarios seem to put the Horizon League in danger of losing programs once again to realignment. The first would be the chain reaction set off by the Big 12 and then the AAC expanding. If those conferences suddenly start adding members of other conferences, it could quickly open up movement in Conference USA, the MAC, and other leagues across the conference. As a result, the Horizon League could suddenly be an option.
The other scenario is the Missouri Valley looking to beef up its numbers as a preventive measure to Wichita State departing. The MVC was rumored to have courted several Horizon League schools during the last expansion and could turn to the league again. Keep an eye out for further developments on both scenarios in the coming weeks as conferences hold yearly meetings.
http://www.midmajormadness.com/2016/6/10/11890236/could-any-horizon-league-teams-conference-expansion-missouri-valley-big-12-aac (http://www.midmajormadness.com/2016/6/10/11890236/could-any-horizon-league-teams-conference-expansion-missouri-valley-big-12-aac)
Valpo competes in 19 D-I varsity sports (plus Robotic FB, Ultimate Frizzbe and possibly Ice Hockey as club sports). The MVC competes in 17 of those sports (Bowling is not listed for MVC and Football is a separate MVC Football conference). Valpo has excellent facilities for all MVC sports except one, and only one -- MBB. Valpo's home attendance for this year was 3,500+ per game.
Here's the MVC attendance figures (Conference Av = 5210):
WSU - 10,805
Bradley - 5953
UNI - 5378
SIU - 5277
Ill State - 5199
E'ville -5147
Mizzu State - 4140
Ind State - 3672
Drake - 3087
Loyola - 1831
Without Wichita State the conference av drops to 4409
Here's where Valpo would rank if it replaces WSU:
Bradley - 5953
UNI - 5378
SIU - 5277
Ill State - 5199
E'ville -5147
Mizzu State - 4140
Ind State - 3672
VU - 3572Drake - 3087
Loyola - 1831
Conference av would then be 3968 (or a slight drop of 500 from the WSU-less MVC.
IF.... the MVC comes calling again, IMO it would not be unreasonable for VU to commit, as a condition to an invitation, to upgrading the ARC and expand capacity to 6000 within a 5 (?) year time frame. With the upgrade, improved competition, greater brand recognition I could see our average attendance be closer to 5K than 4K which would put us in the middle of the MVC pack.
Is that a multi bid league without Wichita State? I'm not so sure it is.
Doubtful that the Big 12 expands anytime soon, IMO. Where is Wichita going? The MWC? With C-USA's rolled out media deal, I'm surprised UTEP or Rice don't have one foot out the door already--there is more money to be made elsewhere. WSU could certainly fit in the AAC with football, but so could Southern Miss and others. I would imagine that any AAC movement would require Big 12 movement first. Lack of interest by the MVC in NMSU tells me they have no plans to beef up as a preventative measure either.
Las Cruces, NM doesn't buy the MVC anything.
Quote from: VULB#62 on June 10, 2016, 12:20:42 PMQuote from: oklahomamick on June 10, 2016, 10:55:26 AMConference realignment has already pillaged two charter members and the marquee basketball program from the Horizon League in recent years. Both Loyola and Butler departed before the first few rounds of realignment settled to a halt. Now, with rumors of the Big 12 looking to add members, conference realignment may become a reality once more. Any moves the Big 12 may make would be based on what a school could do to enhance the conference's football profile. Certainly no schools in the Horizon League even come close to fulfilling the Big 12's football needs. But, the trickle down effect of Big 12 expansion could result in the Horizon League losing schools to other conferences looking to replenish their ranks. Which schools are the likely movers? Just about every school would jump at the chance to move to a higher profile basketball conference. But who is currently poised to make the leap? Valparaiso Crusaders :thumbsup: Valparaiso certainly has seen a great deal of success on the basketball court in recent years. They bring a high profile name among mid-major circles to the table. Valparaiso also is close enough to potentially draw some of the interest from the Chicago media market. Valparaiso's athletic facilities would likely need to improve for a conference to consider adding the Crusaders though. Rumor had it that Valparaiso was among the final schools considered by the Missouri Valley the last time they expanded. Of course, Loyola was ultimately chosen, but Valparaiso would once again be a quality choice if the Missouri Valley does decide to expand. Two potential scenarios seem to put the Horizon League in danger of losing programs once again to realignment. The first would be the chain reaction set off by the Big 12 and then the AAC expanding. If those conferences suddenly start adding members of other conferences, it could quickly open up movement in Conference USA, the MAC, and other leagues across the conference. As a result, the Horizon League could suddenly be an option. The other scenario is the Missouri Valley looking to beef up its numbers as a preventive measure to Wichita State departing. The MVC was rumored to have courted several Horizon League schools during the last expansion and could turn to the league again. Keep an eye out for further developments on both scenarios in the coming weeks as conferences hold yearly meetings. http://www.midmajormadness.com/2016/6/10/11890236/could-any-horizon-league-teams-conference-expansion-missouri-valley-big-12-aac (http://www.midmajormadness.com/2016/6/10/11890236/could-any-horizon-league-teams-conference-expansion-missouri-valley-big-12-aac)
Valpo competes in 19 D-I varsity sports (plus Robotic FB, Ultimate Frizzbe and possibly Ice Hockey as club sports). The MVC competes in 17 of those sports (Bowling is not listed for MVC and Football is a separate MVC Football conference). Valpo has excellent facilities for all MVC sports except one, and only one -- MBB. Valpo's home attendance for this year was 3,500+ per game. Here's the MVC attendance figures (Conference Av = 5210): WSU - 10,805 Bradley - 5953 UNI - 5378 SIU - 5277 Ill State - 5199 E'ville -5147 Mizzu State - 4140 Ind State - 3672 Drake - 3087 Loyola - 1831 Without Wichita State the conference av drops to 4409 Here's where Valpo would rank if it replaces WSU: Bradley - 5953 UNI - 5378 SIU - 5277 Ill State - 5199 E'ville -5147 Mizzu State - 4140 Ind State - 3672 VU - 3572 Drake - 3087 Loyola - 1831 Conference av would then be 3968 (or a slight drop of 500 from the WSU-less MVC. IF.... the MVC comes calling again, IMO it would not be unreasonable for VU to commit, as a condition to an invitation, to upgrading the ARC and expand capacity to 6000 within a 5 (?) year time frame. With the upgrade, improved competition, greater brand recognition I could see our average attendance be closer to 5K than 4K which would put us in the middle of the MVC pack.
With the ARC only being at 71.44% capacity through out the year adding seats is not the answer. The ARC is difficult place to play, lets keep it that way. Just improve the locker rooms, bathrooms, concessions and add a couple VIP lounges/suites on the track. :twocents:
Quote from: M on June 10, 2016, 12:25:03 PM
Is that a multi bid league without Wichita State? I'm not so sure it is.
Is the MVC a multi bid league without Creighton?
They were last year and both teams won a game I believe. I know it was a fluke, but this looks like it's take more then a fluke to be a two bid league. That said, I'd probably still go to the MVC as it could be a stepping stone to better things in the future.
QuoteWith the ARC only being at 71.44% capacity through out the year adding seats is not the answer. The ARC is difficult place to play, lets keep it that way. Just improve the locker rooms, bathrooms, concessions and add a couple VIP lounges/suites on the track. :twocents:
To a great degree I agree with the intent of your comment - the ARC
must maintain it's character and it
must continue be a pit for visiting teams. But averaging almost 72% over the whole season is very good in comparison to a lot of D-I teams. I'm guessing most MVC teams can't say they reach that %age. And by being at 72% it indicates some games pushed the capacity limits. With that in mind and purely from an MVC standpoint (the MVC evaluators who will pass judgement and maybe extract some commitments), I believe THEY want to see a commitment that shows some increase in capacity (along with all the things you mention). If I were them that's what I'd do -- they feel like they are in the driver's seat.
The ARC will be even more intimidating IF, as the 30 year plan indicates, an addition is built on the north wall of the ARC to include more locker rooms, training room facilities, lavatories, concessions, offices, etc., at the ground level. Above that would be constructed another activity/gym area that on game nights would mirror the upper bleachers on the south side with moveable bleachers that would expand over that area. That would enable the two lower sections to be upgraded to nicer chair backs on both sides and the east side could then (because of the relocation of the concessions) have larger roll-out permanent bleachers that would allow for 2 student sections. Homer Drew Court and the closeness of the fans wouldn't change -- there'd just be 500 more people in a sell-out. And as you point out, perhaps some VIP boxes could be shoehorned in on the east and west ends on the track level. Then, if it is known in advance that a particular game is far from a sellout, the new north bleachers could remain closed and the ARC becomes its old cozy self again.
Quote from: VULB#62 on June 10, 2016, 05:27:52 PMI believe THEY want to see a commitment that shows some increase in capacity
I don't know....I thought the HL had a requirement that the bball stadium had to be 5,000. That was probably because campuses hosted the tournament. Anyhow, they ignored it and let Oakland in.
I believe mid-major conference should get away from looking at the "market" or facilities and go after successful programs with consistent good rpi's
Quote from: oklahomamick on June 21, 2016, 10:59:42 PM
I don't know....I thought the HL had a requirement that the bball stadium had to be 5,000. That was probably because campuses hosted the tournament. Anyhow, they ignored it and let Oakland in.
I believe mid-major conference should get away from looking at the "market" or facilities and go after successful programs with consistent good rpi's
100% correct. It's the only way to improve a conference and increase revenues. Selecting a consistently mediocre team with good facilities is like recruiting a 98-pound middle linebacker because he owns a XXL shirt. Consistently good teams with mediocre facilities in a lesser conference have the greatest potential to benefit from conference upgrades and have demonstrated that they have the culture required to win.
Quote from: Valpower on June 22, 2016, 12:31:04 PM
Quote from: oklahomamick on June 21, 2016, 10:59:42 PM
I don't know....I thought the HL had a requirement that the bball stadium had to be 5,000. That was probably because campuses hosted the tournament. Anyhow, they ignored it and let Oakland in.
I believe mid-major conference should get away from looking at the "market" or facilities and go after successful programs with consistent good rpi's
100% correct. It's the only way to improve a conference and increase revenues. Selecting a consistently mediocre team with good facilities is like recruiting a 98-pound middle linebacker because he owns a XXL shirt. Consistently good teams with mediocre facilities in a lesser conference have the greatest potential to benefit from conference upgrades and have demonstrated that they have the culture required to win.
Got to admit Loyola getting into the MVC was an aberration and much was made of their facilities commitment in that invitation. But the real attraction was the Chicago market. Sample the MVC forum now and you'd see much second guessing and eye rolls about that decision. Learning from this, the next addition to the MVC will have had a history of solid RPI finishes FIRST AND FOREMOST -- they will have to replace WSU for gosh sakes. Can't do that with a UIC (though they do have the Pavilion and draw better than Loyola ::) ). At the time Loyola got the bid, Valpo could not point to 5 years of solid RPI ratings and multiple HL titles. It can now. It also has an NIT finalist banner to point at -- but, alas, no first round NCAA wins :( That makes Valpo, despite its criticized facilities, IMO, a very attractive replacement for WSU -- if, that is, WSU goes to the MWC as rumored. This next year will be key year in that respect. We have to maintain our winning tradition and good RPI standing. We also need to get that first NCAA win under our belt. However, if an opening comes to be, the MVC will once again do their due diligence, make their visits to candidate schools, and finally extend an invitation. Assuming no other school can match our record, I believe, that invitation will go to us based on our record of competitiveness and the quality of the people and players in the Athletic Department and especially the MBB program. If there is another school that is comparable in terms of record and location within the MVC foot print, it will come down to facilities and we'd lose. But if that invitation comes thorough, I also believe that invitation will come with at least two conditions, because that is what conferences do in order to upgrade at every possible occasion:
(1) That within a reasonable time period -- 5 years? -- significant steps will have been taken to ensure that attendance at Valpo MBB conference games will average around 5,000/game. From an MVC standpoint that is logical (as they lose a team that averaged 10k spectators a game). For Valpo to do that, they would need to increase their advertising and marketing efforts AND expand to at least 6,000 seats to allow for the average to get that high. That's where the 30 year plan-proposed north addition to the ARC and upper level comes into play.
(2) That within that same reasonable time period, all other varsity sports must improve their overall competitiveness to be competitive within the MVC level of competition. We appear to be going in that direction recently. But continued improvement requires additional scholarship aid and, perhaps, better coaches salaries. Again from an overall MVC perspective, I believe they will want a new member that adds more than just to MBB. In the first few years in the HL Valpo was the worst in the McCafferty ratings. This is changing, so this commitment is not as challenging as the first.
When Mid-Major Conferences are searching for new members they are not solely about the quality of RPI and a schools tradition of winning. There are so many factors that play a roll in inviting new schools to the conference. Much of it has to do with
-TV revenue (targeting regions to max eyeballs and rev),
-School size (enrollment, alumni base population, etc.)
-public or private school (is a factor for some conferences)
-can the conference establish a recruiting footprint in your geographic regions
-Cost effective scheduling for other schools to travel (specifically the none bread winning sports travel costs),
-the schools commitment to the athletic department (is the school willing to invest $$$ in the programs?),
-stadium capacity, quality of facilities (also in non-basketball or non-breadwinning sports facilities up to par?) When the MVC came scouting our campus we didn't even have a track at the time)),
-ease of travel for other schools fans to get to your campus,
-commitment of the surrounding community to your athletics program,
- and of course does the team have a history of winning and making it further in national tournament to allow current schools to get a piece of the $$ pie your program generates
-The biggest factor in getting an invite comes down to simple economics. If the conference thinks that inviting your school to the conference will grow conference revenue then you are MUCH more likely and probable to get an invite or be under consideration. It comes down to $$$
Quote from: VU2014 on June 22, 2016, 03:44:01 PM
When Mid-Major Conferences are searching for new members they are not solely about the quality of RPI and a schools tradition of winning. There are so many factors that play a roll in inviting new schools to the conference. Much of it has to do with
- TV revenue (targeting regions to max eyeballs and rev), NOPE
- School size (enrollment, alumni base population, etc.) VU would be the smallest
- public or private school (is a factor for some conferences) N/A
- can the conference establish a recruiting footprint in your geographic regions YES - already has
- Cost effective scheduling for other schools to travel (specifically the none bread winning sports travel costs), YES - already has
- the schools commitment to the athletic department (is the school willing to invest $$$ in the programs?), YES - if that was a condition and VU accepted that condition
- stadium capacity, quality of facilities (also in non-basketball or non-breadwinning sports facilities up to par?) When the MVC came scouting our campus we didn't even have a track at the time)), YES - see previous
- ease of travel for other schools fans to get to your campus, YES - no worse than Loyola (with better parking)
- commitment of the surrounding community to your athletics program, Better than Loyola, Indiana State but not rabid
- and of course does the team have a history of winning and making it further in national tournament to allow current schools to get a piece of the $$ pie your program generates NOT YET
-The biggest factor in getting an invite comes down to simple economics. If the conference thinks that inviting your school to the conference will grow conference revenue then you are MUCH more likely and probable to get an invite or be under consideration. It comes down to $$$
I like your assessment and threw some comments of mine in. We don't hit on all cylinders. And we come up $hort on being the next pot of conference gold at the end of the rainbow. A school like South Dakota State {{{already in the MVC Football Conference, building a new 19,000 capacity FB stadium, 10K students, 6,500 seat arena, always in the Summit's top three in MBB (though they just lost their HBB coach to Wright State), and are the only show in Brookings, SD }}} could probably match up with your check list pretty good too, and they have much better facilities and have thrown much more money into the athletic program.
Just something to keep an eye on. This could start a chain reaction for other conferences losing and gaining schools. (We obviously won't be moving to the BIG12 but this could open up spots for smaller schools at "better" conferences then the Horizon down the road.)
Bob Bowlsby to begin contacting schools to gauge interest in Big 12
Jake Trotter
ESPN Staff Writer
IRVING, Texas -- The Big 12 Conference announced Tuesday that it has authorized commissioner Bob Bowlsby to begin exploring expansion candidates.
The Big 12 board of directors met in Irving, Texas, and deliberated on the merits of expansion, hearing presentations from two paid consultants on the issue.
Bowlsby is expected to begin contacting schools to gauge their interest in the Big 12 in the coming days.
"It's a forward step, a positive step," said Oklahoma president and board chair David Boren, who has been the most outspoken proponent for Big 12 expansion. "Not yet a decision ... but it shows momentum on the board to consider [expansion] as a possibility."
Boren said expansion by both two and four schools will be on the table moving forward.
Numerous schools have been pitching the Big 12 behind the scenes for months, including American Athletic Conference members Cincinnati Connecticut, Memphis, Houston and Central Florida, along with BYU, Colorado State and others.
"We've been contacted by a number of institutions, and I would imagine after this news breaks we'll be contacted again," Bowlsby said.
Big 12 leaders have acknowledged that none of the available schools is a natural fit. None is guaranteed to deliver both highly competitive teams -- especially football teams -- as well as large new markets to increase the value of future media deals.
"We are looking for members that will grow over time as we grow," Bowlsby said. "That bring stability. That have a high top end."
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/17108512/big-12-begin-exploring-expansion-candidates
A lot of talk on the radio down here about the possibility of Baylor being shown the door (Chicago St. style). Don't forget this is the same Baylor where the bball coach tried covering up a murder on the team (S Drew getting his big chance). And now this? I don't think Baylor will be strong armed out but Big 12 commissioner said actions can be taken towards baylor. All indications trend hard toward Big 12 expanding, but Nobody flip flops more than the Big 12.
The question is what moves if any could help VU chances on moving up? If the Big 12 takes a couple American conference programs, will there be a domino effect?
If MVC in facts chooses a candidate based on mens basketball performance, rpi of last 8 years and national name with a midwest location, Valpo has to be that candidate. If the MVC looks at facilities and markets we might be in trouble. But that criteria should be held for the big 12 not a mid-major. Markets don't matter without a conference network
Quote from: oklahomamick on June 21, 2016, 10:59:42 PMI believe mid-major conference should get away from looking at the "market" or facilities and go after successful programs with consistent good rpi's
Sure, the only people thinking like that are people who can't get their schools to provide the money for the better facilities. DePaul isn't worried about facilities. They just worry that there is no room in Lincoln Park and will the fans get on the red line to get to their facilities.
Quote from: oklahomamick on July 20, 2016, 07:46:34 AM
A lot of talk on the radio down here about the possibility of Baylor being shown the door (Chicago St. style). Don't forget this is the same Baylor where the bball coach tried covering up a murder on the team (S Drew getting his big chance). And now this? I don't think Baylor will be strong armed out but Big 12 commissioner said actions can be taken towards baylor. All indications trend hard toward Big 12 expanding, but Nobody flip flops more than the Big 12.
The question is what moves if any could help VU chances on moving up? If the Big 12 takes a couple American conference programs, will there be a domino effect?
If MVC in facts chooses a candidate based on mens basketball performance, rpi of last 8 years and national name with a midwest location, Valpo has to be that candidate. If the MVC looks at facilities and markets we might be in trouble. But that criteria should be held for the big 12 not a mid-major. Markets don't matter without a conference network
Living in Dallas it is a regular topic on sports radio. The leading candidates from what I've heard include BYU, Memphis, Cincinatti, Houston and most recently Colorado State.
Baylor is not going to be kicked out of the Big 12. It will probably add Houston, Memphis, and if they go to 14, UCF and Cincinnati.
Quote from: valpotx on July 31, 2016, 07:07:36 PMBaylor is not going to be kicked out of the Big 12. It will probably add Houston, Memphis, and if they go to 14, UCF and Cincinnati.
They won't get kicked out, but a lot of fans wouldn't mind if they did....So the big 12 adds some mid-major commuter schools. I wish OU would leave the big12.
If big12 adds 3 from AAC, then AAC will add from either CUSA, MAC, or even Wichita St. themselves (granted they are getting a football team)
Anyone else think Belmont would be a prime candidate to add to the Horizon League?
Belmont is currently a party of the Ohio Valley Conference which it moved to from the Atlantic Sun Conference in 2012 which is an odd fit being the smallest school in the conference and the only private school and one of the only school that doesn't have football program. Seems like a fit on paper.
I think they'd be a solid fit.
-Belmont is in Nashville (close enough for travel)
-adds another big market for TV/advertising and recruiting
-Private school
-School enrollment in line with the size of the rest of the conference at 7,771
-no football program
-Belmont has tradition and has a great basketball program increase the competitiveness of the conference.
-Belmont is already in the Horizon for soccer.
Belmont would be great for the Horizon League, but would the Horizon League be ideal for Belmont? If I were the AD at Belmont, I would be targeting....the MVC.
I was thinking the same thing ^^^
QuoteIf I were the AD at Belmont, I would be targeting....the MVC.
I guess it would depend on travel cost and how much $ each conference is pulling in. I'm not saying the Horizon League is the cream of the crop but going forward in the future I'd rather be in the Horizon League over the OVC. The Ohio Valley isn't a great conference, and I'd think they'd benefit from finding a new conference. Agreed I'd rather be in the MVC than the Horizon though. I'm sure there are quite a few politics and logistics that go into adding teams and switching conferences that make things very complicated.
Many of these mid-major conferences are one or two schools away from being a really ugly conference. The top conferences keep on poaching schools to expand every so often, like the Big East has done with Butler and Creighton.
Then pull the 3 most consistant programs from the midmajor ranks and make a little big east.
QuoteThen pull the 3 most consistant programs from the midmajor ranks and make a little big east.
I wish this could be done.
I wish could make an ideal conference for Valpo from the mid-major conferences in the area, it would be:
-Valpo
-Belmont
-Dayton
-Wichita State
-Northern Iowa
-VCU
-Illinois State
-URI
-St. Johns
-UIC or Loyola (need a Chicago school take your pick)
-Oakland (Need a school from Michigan)
-Another Indiana school for In state rivalry (ball state or Indiana State)
-maybe a wisconsin team (unfortunately I can't think of a great mid-major program from there (maybe UWM...))
This is all hypothetical and not going to happen for so many reasons to count. Just thinking of what would make a good "Little Big East" conference
-
Quote from: VU2014 on January 23, 2017, 05:42:04 PM
I wish could make an ideal conference for Valpo from the mid-major conferences in the area, it would be:
-Valpo
-Belmont
-Dayton
-Wichita State
-Northern Iowa
-VCU
-Illinois State
-URI
-St. Johns
-UIC or Loyola (need a Chicago school take your pick)
-Oakland (Need a school from Michigan)
-Another Indiana school for In state rivalry (ball state or Indiana State)
-maybe a wisconsin team (unfortunately I can't think of a great mid-major program from there (maybe UWM...))
This is all hypothetical and not going to happen for so many reasons to count. Just thinking of what would make a good "Little Big East" conference
-
Add Butler, would love to be in the same conference again. Oh how about Duke?
again, i don't think i could have emphasized the "This is all hypothetical and not going to happen for so many reasons to count," anymore.
This is from the PFL Fan Board posted by someone from Drake. The focus is, of course the PFL, but ........
Could Realignment Affect the PFL?
The college basketball season is nearing an end, and there is talk of non-football expansion in the American Athletic Conference--possibly including Dayton. Of particular interest is Wichita State, currently a member of the Missouri Valley Conference. As you may know, the Valley operates the (nonscholarship) Pioneer Football League and the (scholarship) Missouri Valley Football Conference.
If Wichita State leaves the Valley, what's the chance of a divorce between the conference's scholarship football schools and the other members? Could the Drake-Bradley-Loyola-Evansville group not only break away, but also find four other like minded schools for a new conference? Or could they simply replace Valley-bound Dakota schools in the Summit?
More importantly for the PFL, would this be an opportunity for the PFL to ditch Patty V. and her St. Louis crew, in favor of new administrators (e.g. the Summit League)?
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 07, 2017, 03:36:46 PMThis is from the PFL Fan Board posted by someone from Drake. The focus is, of course the PFL, but ........ Could Realignment Affect the PFL? The college basketball season is nearing an end, and there is talk of non-football expansion in the American Athletic Conference--possibly including Dayton. Of particular interest is Wichita State, currently a member of the Missouri Valley Conference. As you may know, the Valley operates the (nonscholarship) Pioneer Football League and the (scholarship) Missouri Valley Football Conference. If Wichita State leaves the Valley, what's the chance of a divorce between the conference's scholarship football schools and the other members? Could the Drake-Bradley-Loyola-Evansville group not only break away, but also find four other like minded schools for a new conference? Or could they simply replace Valley-bound Dakota schools in the Summit? More importantly for the PFL, would this be an opportunity for the PFL to ditch Patty V. and her St. Louis crew, in favor of new administrators (e.g. the Summit League)?
How many Valley-bound Dakota schools are in the Summit? To my knowledge, NDSU, SDSU, and USD (plus Western Ill.) are the only Summit teams with MVFC ties, and I'm not aware that any of them are leaving the Summit in any non-football sport. Or is that part of the speculation?
Even if that did work out, I don't know that Drake/Loyola/Evansville/Bradley are an appreciably better mix of programs than what we have in the HL. The basketball appeal in the MVC (at least to me) is Wichita State, Illinois State, UNI, Missouri State, all (hypothetically) with scholarship football programs.
I know we are talking basketball but sure like Bradley drake Evansville and Loyola academics.
Being from Oklahoma and telling people I went to valpo they ask who is in our conference. I used to say butler, but I don't know of a HL program that has any clout in basketball or academics.
The new Big East has demonstrated that a football-free league can make a go of it. The WCC is another one. The four mentioned plus Valpo and St. Louis U would be an excellent core of like minded private schools. The footprint is quite compact (which might entice SLU). That league would need to lure 2 initially, eventually 4, similar schools. Anybody want to play what if?
Drake
Bradley
Loyola
Valpo
Evansville
St. Louis
Belmont
Lipscomb
BTW, I watched some of the WCC gig in Las Vegas. First, both St. Mary's and Gonzaga looked really good (when I left the restaurant the Zags had a 10 point lead) but I was really impressed by the attendance. It was very, very good considering all teams and fans have to fly in -- kinda like Detroit (not).
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 07, 2017, 10:07:23 PM
Drake
Bradley
Loyola
Valpo
Evansville
St. Louis
Belmont
Lipscomb
Why on earth would SLU leave the A10 for that? Why would Valpo leave the Horizon for that?
62 - the crowd was also great because you had 2 excellent rival teams facing each other. Gonzaga plays serious defense!
So back to the topic - I really hate to say this but recently Valpo's stock has dropped a little to make a case to upgrade to a better conference. The other issue that has bothered me is the attendance and the bogus excuses for it such as the Greek system. You would not hear that excuse at Wichita St., UNI, Bradley, ISU,etc. If Valpo joined the Valley I would want them to be at least in the upper half.
Watch the Summit League Championship game...I think the announcer said the overall attendance was greater than 9K for that game!
this is true but 2 things come to mind -
1. The proximity was very close for the South Dakota State fans.
2. What else is there to do in South Dakota in early March?
Quote from: a3uge on March 07, 2017, 10:41:22 PMQuote from: oklahomamick on March 07, 2017, 10:07:23 PMDrake Bradley Loyola Valpo Evansville St. Louis Belmont Lipscomb
Why on earth would SLU leave the A10 for that? Why would Valpo leave the Horizon for that?
You think the HL is better than that spread?
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 07, 2017, 10:07:23 PM
Drake
Bradley
Loyola
Valpo
Evansville
St. Louis
Belmont
Lipscomb
You're losing it, bro.
If we're talking about a hypothetical private school break away conference formed as a result of scholarship FCS football (as referenced by '62 above), you'd probably be more likely to see:
Valpo
Detroit
Evansville
Drake
Bradley
Loyola
Oral Roberts
This would take simultaneous movement from three conferences. Won't happen.
agreed, none of the conference realignments will happen.
Belmont can't be happy its moving from Nashville to Evansville. Statement from Evansville AD Mark Spencer in response to Evansville hosting the OVC tourney.
"The University of Evansville is 100 percent committed to the Missouri Valley Conference and is not looking at other conference affiliations in any way, shape or form. UE is excited about a long future in the MVC."
If AAC, MVC or others are needing members, do not forget that recent HL champ, NKU, has a new facility, excellent baseball park and 15000 students in a good TV market (Cincinnati). Also, not sure what MVC provides Valpo. It is likely a 1-bid league this year as Ill St hopes are fading off the bubble and it's record this year was nearly Valpo's and without the wins we had. Travel costs jump. The best team in the league is likely bolting so it brings all RPIs down. And as to football, YSU might want to consider an alternative conference that gives them a better football conference if a Cincinnati moves up, although YSU would be best in the MAC. The HL is at a big fork in the road. It is not stable and either needs to be aggressive with schools like Drake, Belmont, Duquesne, Bradley and add them to Detroit, Oakland, and any remaining HL teams and create a more "private-school" conference; or Valpo will need to be aggressive and find a stable home for all of its programs. With the lack of leadership from LeCrone, we better take things into our own hands and have an exit strategy with the A10/14, Big East, and even the MVC. If BYU leaves the WCC, maybe we should join that.
Okay this is better. Still dreaming.
West
SLU
Dayton
Evansville
Bradley
Drake
Loyola
Valpo
East
Davidson
Richmond
LaSalle
St. Joe's
St. Bonaventure
Fordham
Duquesne
The football schools of the mvc would join with the football schools of the summit
Illinois State
Indiana State
Missouri State
North Dakota
North Dakota State
Northern Iowa
South Dakota
South Dakota State
Southern Illinois
Western Illinois
Actually, that ain't bad Mick. Makes sense geographically for both FB and non-FB schools.
The new "A-14" West footprint would include IN, IL, IA, Detroit, MI, and OH. The longest spread would be about 600 miles (Drake to Dayton or UDM). Drake to EU is 516 miles. EU to Loyola/VU 290 miles. EU to Detroit is ~460 and to Dayton ~275. St. Louis is 167 to E'ville, ~300 to Chicago/Valpo, Peoria 170, Detroit 550, Dayton ~350 and Drake 350. Bradley's longest trip is to Detroit 420 miles. From a basketball air travel standpoint all flights are under 2 hours (most 1 -1.5 hrs.)
The East footprint is slightly smaller: Pittsburgh north to Olean, NY (219) and east to NYC (371); North Carolina north through VA and Philly to NYC (625). NC to Pittsburg 430, and Olean 640.
That begs the issue of divisional cross-over games, of course (Drake vs. Fordham for instance). Sports other than BB could cross-over but those games could be scheduled with travel costs in mind i.e., Fordham would maybe cross-over to E'ville, UDM, Dayton, but hardly ever to St. Louis or DesMoines.
Of course the remnants of the HL and Summit are left in the dust. And we are assuming Wichita State is off to a bigger and better universe. The current A-10 will also become more of a public school (UMass, George Mason, VCU... ) conference -- we'll call it the Colonial Athletic Association. Wait, there already is a CAA:
1. UNC Wilmington
2. College of Charleston
3. Towson
4. William & Mary
5. Elon
6. Northeastern
7. James Madison
8. Hofstra
9. Delaware
10. Drexel
Boy, this is a lot of scrambling in multiple leagues. Maybe this is not that practical ::)
Within a year or so I think Ft. Wayne(IPFW) will no longer be a member of the SL .
Quote from: valpo64 on March 08, 2017, 12:47:59 PM
Within a year or so I think Ft. Wayne(IPFW) will no longer be a member of the SL .
And they will be going................?
With the recent announcement of re-alignment of this regional campus, where Purdue will be in change and the school name will reflect as such, their athletic programs will really be in a state of flux. A former, retired coach of another sport at the school said he thought they wound end up in Div. 2 or 3, or perhaps in the NAIA once all the changes are completed. According to a recent article in a FW newspaper, among the new names being mentioned is "Purdue Northeast". Time will tell.
http://www.jconline.com/story/news/college/2017/02/24/ipfw-undergo-name-change/98270910/
http://www.news-sentinel.com/news/local/Challenges-plenty-for-athletics-as-IPFW-transition-looms
The chancellor didn't exactly commit to Division I with her answer here, either:
http://www.news-sentinel.com/news/local/NEWS-SENTINEL-EXCLUSIVE--Part-II-of-Q-A-with-IPFW-Chancellor-Vicky-Carwein
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 08, 2017, 08:07:49 AM2. What else is there to do in South Dakota in early March?
Probably more to do than in Valpo but less than in Indy or Detroit. ;) Think about it.
At least at Valpo you are an hour away from civilization!
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 07, 2017, 10:01:48 PM
The new Big East has demonstrated that a football-free league can make a go of it. The WCC is another one. The four mentioned plus Valpo and St. Louis U would be an excellent core of like minded private schools. The footprint is quite compact (which might entice SLU). That league would need to lure 2 initially, eventually 4, similar schools. Anybody want to play what if?
Every time we would play Saint Louis someone should call it the annual "Keith Carter Lost Year Memorial" game. A reminder of Keith's lost year should be held up on a sign.
That's a given.... :(
But at some point we have let it go.
Let's talk about SLU for a moment. Yes, they aren't leaving the A-10 for anything other than a solid conference at the moment. But also, yes, they are not happy in a league where they are essentially out on an island, with the closest conference mate 365 miles away, and the second closest more than 600 miles away. Many SLU fans attribute their current struggles to this geographic disconnect. I've heard it from friends in that area over and over again. I'm stunned the MVC hasn't tried to pry them away.
Perhaps if WSU leaves, SLU would be their #1 invite. It does make sense geographically and their past RPI (certainly not now, but.... ) would help that league if they can get back to what they were. And being in the MVC would be a recruiting booster. Their facilities and arena are very good and they bring the St. Louis market. Of course they then would neutralize the "neutralness" of Arch Madness and be the de facto permanent host :lol: Enrollment is 13K and the alumni/fan base is heavily local and much larger than Valpo's. On pretty much all counts (except recent RPI) they compare much more favorably than Valpo. But then Loyola was a HL drag and still got an invite over VU to secure the Chicago market.
Many people thought they'd be a shoe-in for the new Big East but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore.