Does anybody know if Homer is thinking about scheduling a game against one of the top teams in the nation again this next year? i don't see the benefit in going to cameron indoor or the dean dome to go get crushed. sure, i guess you could say it's a nice experience for the players, but at the cost of a 30 point blowout. i noticed in the discussion about butler that we got to the topic about playing and possibly beating middle of pack or lower tier teams from the power six conferences. is it possible that we may get games like that? like IU since they have been down, or Iowa, wake forest, iowa state, minnesota, ole miss, arizona state, NC state, etc. just throwing names out there. i mean, maybe from those schools' perspective, there is not much to gain from playing us because beating us doesn't mean much to them, and losing to us would make them look bad.
Depaul and South Florida are teams we could destroy.(with Wood) Maybe Rutgers too.
I don't know what the team is looking for in scheduling, but I'm pretty sure they have tried some of this stuff over the years. Scheduling is not an easy thing to do, and just because you want to do a certain thing doesn't mean you will be able too. I hope we can upgrade within reason, but these mid level power conference schools don't want to play us either, especially at our place. Butler can get some of those games because they have had success of late, they have a larger seating capacity then we, and they have access to a much larger media area. Unless we can get a really big name, Chicago basically ignores us, so a NC State or someone like that doesn't give us much play. Duke, North Carolina and Notre Dame did, and we made a great profit on those games. Was it worth it? Not my decision to make....
I realize that scheduling is difficult but Valpo needs to be willing to play anyone, anywhere. Even if that means we don't get a return game. If we want to play with the big boys we play on their terms. It's not fair but it's the facts of life for a mid-major.
Look at Oakland's schedule this past season: at West Virginia, at Purdue, at Illinois, Michigan State, at Tennessee, at Michigan, at Ohio State. How were they able to schedule all of those teams? I mentioned before going to play teams out West. Maybe we have a better chance at scheduling a team outside the Midwest who might not be as familiar with Valpo.
Quote from: mj on April 11, 2011, 09:24:58 PM
I realize that scheduling is difficult but Valpo needs to be willing to play anyone, anywhere. Even if that means we don't get a return game. If we want to play with the big boys we play on their terms. It's not fair but it's the facts of life for a mid-major.
Look at Oakland's schedule this past season: at West Virginia, at Purdue, at Illinois, Michigan State, at Tennessee, at Michigan, at Ohio State. How were they able to schedule all of those teams? I mentioned before going to play teams out West. Maybe we have a better chance at scheduling a team outside the Midwest who might not be as familiar with Valpo.
If we did that, then we would have to schedule some home games that we can win, which is what some of our fans are complaining about. Can we continue without a good home schedule? I'd rather see us schedule MVC, OVC and MAC teams that would come to our place once in a while. I think what we all agree on is that Division II and NAIA schools need to go....This means of course, anyway you slice it, we have more of a chance of losing....will our fans accept that? I wonder
If we did that, then we would have to schedule some home games that we can win, which is what some of our fans are complaining about. Can we continue without a good home schedule? I'd rather see us schedule MVC, OVC and MAC teams that would come to our place once in a while. I think what we all agree on is that Division II and NAIA schools need to go....This means of course, anyway you slice it, we have more of a chance of losing....will our fans accept that? I wonder
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As a fan, YES...I'd rather them play more equal competition that will actually help the SOS and RPI vs. beating IUN and PNC by 50 points and really having nothing to show for it.
Quote from: sectionee on April 11, 2011, 09:43:31 PM
If we did that, then we would have to schedule some home games that we can win, which is what some of our fans are complaining about. Can we continue without a good home schedule? I'd rather see us schedule MVC, OVC and MAC teams that would come to our place once in a while. I think what we all agree on is that Division II and NAIA schools need to go....This means of course, anyway you slice it, we have more of a chance of losing....will our fans accept that? I wonder
As a fan, YES...I'd rather them play more equal competition that will actually help the SOS and RPI vs. beating IUN and PNC by 50 points and really having nothing to show for it.
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i agree. how many of us really like seeing us play pnc? c'mon. it's better to get like kent state or something like that. i would even like to see drexel, davidson, or creighton. the MVC is fairly respected now so i would love to us play those kinds of teams from the MAC or MVC at the ARC. here's another question. how big of an effect does playing at the ARC have for getting good teams to play us there? we had purdue, but we had to play them a few times in w. lafayette first.
Can someone tell me why we can't schedule a home/home series with Baylor? I heard our coach may have an inside source there that can help with scheduling.
Quote from: PatVU07 on April 12, 2011, 05:11:35 AM
Can someone tell me why we can't schedule a home/home series with Baylor? I heard our coach may have an inside source there that can help with scheduling.
Homer has stated that the only way that Valpo will play Baylor is if it's in the NCAA Tournament or another post season tournament. It is just an issue that Homer has of playing against family.
Quote from: DMvalpo18 on April 11, 2011, 10:04:04 PM
Quote from: sectionee on April 11, 2011, 09:43:31 PM
Quote from: rlh on April 11, 2011, 09:06:26 PM
If we did that, then we would have to schedule some home games that we can win, which is what some of our fans are complaining about. Can we continue without a good home schedule? I'd rather see us schedule MVC, OVC and MAC teams that would come to our place once in a while. I think what we all agree on is that Division II and NAIA schools need to go....This means of course, anyway you slice it, we have more of a chance of losing....will our fans accept that? I wonder
As a fan, YES...I'd rather them play more equal competition that will actually help the SOS and RPI vs. beating IUN and PNC by 50 points and really having nothing to show for it.
i agree. how many of us really like seeing us play pnc? c'mon. it's better to get like kent state or something like that. i would even like to see drexel, davidson, or creighton. the MVC is fairly respected now so i would love to us play those kinds of teams from the MAC or MVC at the ARC. here's another question. how big of an effect does playing at the ARC have for getting good teams to play us there? we had purdue, but we had to play them a few times in w. lafayette first.
Also, the biggest factor for Purdue wanting to play at the ARC was that they had Moore from East Chicago and Hummel from Valparaiso and Painter was giving those players a game near their hometowns. Robbie Hummel unfortunately did not get to play due to his injury. Who knows if Painter would have scheduled a game at the ARC without those two players on his team.
Quote from: valpofan11 on April 11, 2011, 08:45:59 PM
Depaul and South Florida are teams we could destroy.(with Wood) Maybe Rutgers too.
My guess is you would have said the same thing about Toledo...Umm...
Quote from: PatVU07 on April 12, 2011, 05:11:35 AM
Can someone tell me why we can't schedule a home/home series with Baylor? I heard our coach may have an inside source there that can help with scheduling.
One of the toughest games, emotionally, for Homer was when VU played against Toledo in the Hilo Invitational back in 1995. Toledo had Casey Shaw, at the time the boyfriend/fiancee of Dana Drew. Homer had to devise a game plan to stop Casey, who was Toledo's best player. Valpo ended up winning the game, but it took a big toll out of Homer and he still remembers it. The emotional toll of having to beat even a "future" family member was tough. It would be even worse for him if he had to play Scott's team. That's why it's not going to happen unless a tournament bracket dictates it.
I would be interesting to see if the Horizon League and Missouri Valley Conference could sign an agreement where they agreed to schedule games against each other. Every year you'd get one home and one away game with an MVC opponent. It wouldn't have to be the same team in each game either. If it was a 10 year agreement, then every team in one conference would get to play every team in the other conference twice.
Quote from: mj on April 12, 2011, 02:15:45 PM
I would be interesting to see if the Horizon League and Missouri Valley Conference could sign an agreement where they agreed to schedule games against each other. Every year you'd get one home and one away game with an MVC opponent. It wouldn't have to be the same team in each game either. If it was a 10 year agreement, then every team in one conference would get to play every team in the other conference twice.
:clap:
Quote from: StlVUFan on April 12, 2011, 05:12:16 PM
Quote from: mj on April 12, 2011, 02:15:45 PM
I would be interesting to see if the Horizon League and Missouri Valley Conference could sign an agreement where they agreed to schedule games against each other. Every year you'd get one home and one away game with an MVC opponent. It wouldn't have to be the same team in each game either. If it was a 10 year agreement, then every team in one conference would get to play every team in the other conference twice.
:clap:
seconded :thumbsup:
Quote from: mj on April 12, 2011, 02:15:45 PM
I would be interesting to see if the Horizon League and Missouri Valley Conference could sign an agreement where they agreed to schedule games against each other. Every year you'd get one home and one away game with an MVC opponent. It wouldn't have to be the same team in each game either. If it was a 10 year agreement, then every team in one conference would get to play every team in the other conference twice.
I am a big fan of this idea, however I don't see it happening. Not sure that the MVC gains enough to make this worth doing for them.
Quote from: milanmiracle on April 12, 2011, 09:31:43 PM
Quote from: mj on April 12, 2011, 02:15:45 PM
I would be interesting to see if the Horizon League and Missouri Valley Conference could sign an agreement where they agreed to schedule games against each other. Every year you'd get one home and one away game with an MVC opponent. It wouldn't have to be the same team in each game either. If it was a 10 year agreement, then every team in one conference would get to play every team in the other conference twice.
I am a big fan of this idea, however I don't see it happening. Not sure that the MVC gains enough to make this worth doing for them.
I'd like to see the HL AD get some agreements with other leagues such as MVC, OVC, MAC, CAA, Summit, etc. The HL could have 2-3 agreements with each conference, getting similarily rated programs a home and home for the next two or three years (allowing for the second game to be two seasons later). I could also see where a double header game between conferences at a neutral venue, especially in the fan base area of all teams involved.
Quote from: covufan on April 13, 2011, 12:41:39 PM
Quote from: milanmiracle on April 12, 2011, 09:31:43 PM
Quote from: mj on April 12, 2011, 02:15:45 PM
I would be interesting to see if the Horizon League and Missouri Valley Conference could sign an agreement where they agreed to schedule games against each other. Every year you'd get one home and one away game with an MVC opponent. It wouldn't have to be the same team in each game either. If it was a 10 year agreement, then every team in one conference would get to play every team in the other conference twice.
I am a big fan of this idea, however I don't see it happening. Not sure that the MVC gains enough to make this worth doing for them.
I'd like to see the HL AD get some agreements with other leagues such as MVC, OVC, MAC, CAA, Summit, etc. The HL could have 2-3 agreements with each conference, getting similarily rated programs a home and home for the next two or three years (allowing for the second game to be two seasons later). I could also see where a double header game between conferences at a neutral venue, especially in the fan base area of all teams involved.
I was with you until the neutral site double header thing. We all saw how empty the stadium in Milwaukee looked during the tournament for the majority of those games. I have a real hard time believing these smaller school teams could fill up a neutral court.
Some kind of arrangement between conferences would be outstanding, and could eliminate the need for the bracket buster (which it seems most people feel was part of the reason for our downfall late this year).
Quote from: sectionee on April 13, 2011, 02:30:08 PM
Quote from: covufan on April 13, 2011, 12:41:39 PM
Quote from: milanmiracle on April 12, 2011, 09:31:43 PM
Quote from: mj on April 12, 2011, 02:15:45 PM
I would be interesting to see if the Horizon League and Missouri Valley Conference could sign an agreement where they agreed to schedule games against each other. Every year you'd get one home and one away game with an MVC opponent. It wouldn't have to be the same team in each game either. If it was a 10 year agreement, then every team in one conference would get to play every team in the other conference twice.
I am a big fan of this idea, however I don't see it happening. Not sure that the MVC gains enough to make this worth doing for them.
I'd like to see the HL AD get some agreements with other leagues such as MVC, OVC, MAC, CAA, Summit, etc. The HL could have 2-3 agreements with each conference, getting similarily rated programs a home and home for the next two or three years (allowing for the second game to be two seasons later). I could also see where a double header game between conferences at a neutral venue, especially in the fan base area of all teams involved.
I was with you until the neutral site double header thing. We all saw how empty the stadium in Milwaukee looked during the tournament for the majority of those games. I have a real hard time believing these smaller school teams could fill up a neutral court.
Some kind of arrangement between conferences would be outstanding, and could eliminate the need for the bracket buster (which it seems most people feel was part of the reason for our downfall late this year).
i wonder, why do people feel that the bracketbuster game hurt us? we beat MO state pretty soundly and it was a fun game to be at. maybe because the rhythm of conference play was interrupted?
Quote from: sectionee on April 13, 2011, 02:30:08 PM
Quote from: covufan on April 13, 2011, 12:41:39 PM
Quote from: milanmiracle on April 12, 2011, 09:31:43 PM
Quote from: mj on April 12, 2011, 02:15:45 PM
I would be interesting to see if the Horizon League and Missouri Valley Conference could sign an agreement where they agreed to schedule games against each other. Every year you'd get one home and one away game with an MVC opponent. It wouldn't have to be the same team in each game either. If it was a 10 year agreement, then every team in one conference would get to play every team in the other conference twice.
I am a big fan of this idea, however I don't see it happening. Not sure that the MVC gains enough to make this worth doing for them.
I'd like to see the HL AD get some agreements with other leagues such as MVC, OVC, MAC, CAA, Summit, etc. The HL could have 2-3 agreements with each conference, getting similarily rated programs a home and home for the next two or three years (allowing for the second game to be two seasons later). I could also see where a double header game between conferences at a neutral venue, especially in the fan base area of all teams involved.
I was with you until the neutral site double header thing. We all saw how empty the stadium in Milwaukee looked during the tournament for the majority of those games. I have a real hard time believing these smaller school teams could fill up a neutral court.
Some kind of arrangement between conferences would be outstanding, and could eliminate the need for the bracket buster (which it seems most people feel was part of the reason for our downfall late this year).
I was thinking of a Butler-Indiana St and Valpo-Evansville doubleheader at Conseco, or a UIC-Illinois St and Loyola-Southern Ill or Bradley game at Allstate Arena. Since most of these schools have alumni in those areas, it could be sold to alumni. I'm sure there could be some other examples. If the game were scheduled for a Saturday or Sunday afternoon, it could allow for those that wanted to make the drive to attend. I'm think before the main part of the league schedule - sometime between Thanksgiving and New Year's. The schools could also the game to meet with potential students - "come to the games and meet with admissions people from four universities". Just throwing out some ideas. I would take a neutral site game like this over a home game versus a non-Division I team.
Quote from: mj on April 11, 2011, 09:24:58 PM
I realize that scheduling is difficult but Valpo needs to be willing to play anyone, anywhere. Even if that means we don't get a return game. If we want to play with the big boys we play on their terms. It's not fair but it's the facts of life for a mid-major.
Look at Oakland's schedule this past season: at West Virginia, at Purdue, at Illinois, Michigan State, at Tennessee, at Michigan, at Ohio State. How were they able to schedule all of those teams? I mentioned before going to play teams out West. Maybe we have a better chance at scheduling a team outside the Midwest who might not be as familiar with Valpo.
They were able to schedule those teams because they were willing to play them on the road. The only home games that Oakland had this year were Summit League games, Valparaiso, and a non-Division I team (Rochester, MI). Oakland was willing because they knew that they would have a good team this year. They rolled the dice and won at Tennessee. Valpo is not interested in going on the road that much, nor should they.
QuoteThey were able to schedule those teams because they were willing to play them on the road. The only home games that Oakland had this year were Summit League games, Valparaiso, and a non-Division I team (Rochester, MI). Oakland was willing because they knew that they would have a good team this year. They rolled the dice and won at Tennessee. Valpo is not interested in going on the road that much, nor should they.
The way college basketball is set up, the big boys won't play us at home. A mid-major team is going to have to play on the road if they want to play a good team. Why shouldn't Valpo go on the road that much? Do we think we deserve having big teams come play at our place?
How do you suggest we schedule better teams? Do you think we should continue with our current scheduling? It's true, Valpo might have to play a crappy home schedule a few years. But I think giving up a few games against mediocre opponents is worth the cost.
Quote from: mj on April 13, 2011, 07:10:06 PM
QuoteThey were able to schedule those teams because they were willing to play them on the road. The only home games that Oakland had this year were Summit League games, Valparaiso, and a non-Division I team (Rochester, MI). Oakland was willing because they knew that they would have a good team this year. They rolled the dice and won at Tennessee. Valpo is not interested in going on the road that much, nor should they.
The way college basketball is set up, the big boys won't play us at home. A mid-major team is going to have to play on the road if they want to play a good team. Why shouldn't Valpo go on the road that much? Do we think we deserve having big teams come play at our place?
How do you suggest we schedule better teams? Do you think we should continue with our current scheduling? It's true, Valpo might have to play a crappy home schedule a few years. But I think giving up a few games against mediocre opponents is worth the cost.
Then you can't complain about our record not being what our fans want it to be.
Quote
Why shouldn't Valpo go on the road that much?
I don't know how important the revenue is. But, to build and support the fan base, I assume it's important to have a significant home schedule. Or, do you suggest that Valpo-area fans should just check-in for Horizon League play?
The revenue does help, but if we can't get the bottom-tier high majors to come to the ARC, we'll be stuck with the non D-1s, NAIAs, Toledos, Chicago St.s, and the other RPI bottom-dwellers who only see their home courts in November and December for practices. I don't know what some of their concerns are. I mean do the Marylands, Virginia/Virginia Techs, NC States, really think that they'll only get good games if they schedule bottom feeders to come to their home courts all the time, only to have it play terribly to how they'll do in ACC play? I mean if the big 6 conferences want to see more of their own kind in the Sweet 16 and above levels of the NCAA tourney, then they need to start playing some of the mid-majors that are about equal to them for more than just a guaranteed home money draw.
Here's the non-conference home schedule for the last 4 years. Excluding exhibition and Bracketbuster games.
10-11: IU Northwest, PNC, Purdue, IPFW, Ball State
09-10: IU South Bend, Toledo, Concordia WI
08-09: Elmhurst, Marian, UCF, IPFW, North Park
07-08: Grace, Western Michigan, Ball State, Evansville, Chicago State, Indiana Wesleyan
Out of 19 home games, 9 are against non Division 1 teams. What exactly are we giving up if we schedule road games instead of those home games?
There is constantly complaining about the quality of the schedule. Yes, it's bad but here are some considerations.
1. The games against non-D1 teams have no effect on RPI and are in essence preseason games. It's nice once in awhile to have a game that you can work on things without the pressures of it counting against your RPI or that "you have to win". Fans like blow outs and dunks and showtime. Everyone gets their work in and you (hopefully) have a win. Everyone schedules these including BCS schools.
2. Competitive mid-majors should want home and homes with Valpos, UWMs, Cleveland States, etc. but they also need wins and are concerned about their RPIs. What some mid-majors have learned is that playing other good mid-majors can actually help you. They also need a few good games at home for their fan base to get excited. Hence the idea of certain high-level mid-major conferences banding together to play each other is a great idea. But, what happens when you have a down year and you're playing a down Drake or Georgia State. Not everyone gets the top 3 teams in the other conference. Your RPI isn't any better than playing Toledo or Chicago State.
3. BCS schools don't have any interest in playing competitive mid-majors. Some do because of relationships or that their coaches do understand that it can help later. But those coaches are rare (the late Skip Prosser would always schedule away games to help his team prepare for road ACC venues and Dino picked that up -- it led to them breaking BYU's home winning streak, playing Bucknell (Skip's son was an assistant, and a couple recent games against CAA opponents at their venues.) Those programs also need wins at home to please the fan base and they need home games to pay for the program. Hence, the BigLeast rarely goes on the road. Syracuse has to fill the Carrier Dome and does so against cupcakes, occasionally one of those rise up and bite them. By the way, when the whole conference plays cupcakes and starts 12-0, 11-1, 13-2 then the conference season starts with high RPIs playing high RPIs. And ultimately leads to a bunch of mediocre BigLeast teams in the Dance each year only to lose in the first or second round. But good mid-majors also don't mind the paydays from taking games at these locations. It's serious money and there can be a tension there between the ADs budget concerns and the coach's W-L % concerns.
4. With Bracketbuster, every other year you should have a good mid-major in town in you had a good opponent the year before. We will go on the road to Mo St this year or next. That actually may work for us because with Cuonzo gone, there may be a couple year adjustment period.
5. Tournaments help your schedule because you may get some good games on neutral floors and some of them may not count against your # of game requirements. Remember with the Horizon, we only have about 9-10 non-conference games without exempted games. This year we had two tourneys -- one that included the Kansas road game, and then two good neutral court games, and the Oakland tourney which gave us two good games. These help your battle toughness, prepare you for conference tourney and give the kids a road trip hopefully to a fun and sunny place. So check off a couple games there and you are down to about 7-8 non-conference games. Now, add in a couple previously scheduled home and homes or 2 for 1s and you see the dilemma created in scheduling.
This year's non-conf schedule was one of the better ones especially when you add in Missouri State and Iona. If we could get that every year, we should be content. This year there should be a BB return game from Bowling Green which is a MAC. Maybe a return game from Ohio (another MAC), That leaves about 1-2 home games to fill. But to get the teams you want is not going to happen until you can offer serious dollars to them to come to the ARC or there is TV money on the table. The alternative is to rise up to Butler's level in order to get the neutral sites match ups you want or the middle and bottom feeders of BCS conferences are not fearful that a loss will destroy their RPIs. Look we had a home and home scheduled with NC State a few years ago. We unfortunately didn't take advantage and win that game there. NC State was slightly down, the RBC Center was half empty and we had a decent team. NC State then delayed and eventually cancelled the return game. Huggybear for all his issues has always scheduled some home and homes, including one with Valpo and recently with Cleveland State. Coaches have to want to be fair to mid-majors remembering when they were mid-major coaches, or want to really prepare their teams for hostile environs. The good news is our home conference schedule is pretty good now with the Horizon and as the conference continues to get stronger top to bottom, the home schedule gets tougher, what coach wants a really tough non-conf when he needs to show 20 wins a year?