Figured I'd go ahead and start this topic. This isn't to discuss who we want to play or don't want to play, but more of a running thread of who we are actually going to play as it gets leaked out.
Via Indiana State's beat writer, we will be playing a game there next season. Assuming he knows his stuff, I'm glad to have them on the schedule.
I like that
Quote from: valpo4life on March 25, 2015, 05:48:33 PMVia Indiana State's beat writer, we will be playing a game there next season. Assuming he knows his stuff, I'm glad to have them on the schedule.
This would be good news and if true would indicate that our OOC schedule will have at least one D1 opponent. ;) Considering the long history and short distance these teams should strive to play 4 of every 10 years.
As for competition they lose only 2 seniors Gant and Kitchel who combined for 16 points and 52 minutes of playing time. They might be a top 100 RPI team next year.
Glanced at some of their attendance figures and they drew only 5500 for Butler and 4600 for Northern Iowa but they were only 15-16 on the season.
Quote from: justducky on March 25, 2015, 09:11:21 PMKitchel
Is that the South Central kid?
EDIT: yes, Jake Kitchell (valpo native!)
http://www.gosycamores.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=15200&ATCLID=204968628 (http://www.gosycamores.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=15200&ATCLID=204968628)
Career stats: http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/51743/jake-kitchell (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/51743/jake-kitchell)
When you said "16 points and 52 minutes" i thought you meant total, not per game. I feel much better for Jake Kitchell knowing you were talking about per game.
I hope we trade some 2 away games for 1 home game to get good tests for us.
Murray State?
Indiana State also losing Etherington and Bennett as they are transferring.
I graduated from south central in 2004 with jake kitchells sister. Went to same church as well sacred heart in wanatah. Nice family
Quote from: truth219 on March 26, 2015, 12:12:02 PMWent to same church as well sacred heart in wanatah
Man, I hope THAT kid was on the altar at Sacred Heart.
"At ALTAR SERVER, 6'7' and STILL in EIGHTH GRADE...JAcobbbb....KITCHELLL!!!
At cantor, in her eightieth year of eligibility, ..."
Quote from: valpo4life on March 25, 2015, 05:48:33 PM
Figured I'd go ahead and start this topic. This isn't to discuss who we want to play or don't want to play, but more of a running thread of who we are actually going to play as it gets leaked out.
Via Indiana State's beat writer, we will be playing a game there next season. Assuming he knows his stuff, I'm glad to have them on the schedule.
Valparaiso apparently has made a 4-year deal with Indiana St. The first and last years will be in Terre Haute, the middle two years at Valpo.
Quote from: valpopal on March 27, 2015, 05:53:17 PM
Valparaiso apparently has made a 4-year deal with Indiana St. The first and last years will be in Terre Haute, the middle two years at Valpo.
Nice! One of our most frequent opponents all-time, but it's been a while. And we're due a few wins. Great to get them on the books.
Back to topic of the thread. We really have not clue of the OOC teams beyond Indiana State now do we? Probably some dialog with MAC and MVC schools in the works. Loyola makes sense, but rule of the thread is not who we "should play". So see you all in July?
The holiday tournaments are always a big mystery. Hopefully we snag a high profile one this year since that would be 3 decent games rather than a Portland-Maine kind of thing in Nashville. But the Nashville thing was wise last year. Would be great to go up against power teams to get a yardstick early.
Quote from: crusadermoe on March 30, 2015, 08:22:07 AM
Back to topic of the thread. We really have not clue of the OOC teams beyond Indiana State now do we? Probably some dialog with MAC and MVC schools in the works. Loyola makes sense, but rule of the thread is not who we "should play". So see you all in July?
The holiday tournaments are always a big mystery. Hopefully we snag a high profile one this year since that would be 3 decent games rather than a Portland-Maine kind of thing in Nashville. But the Nashville thing was wise last year. Would be great to go up against power teams to get a yardstick early.
There may be a conference challenge. Gary Waters said that they are working on a challenge with the West Coast Conference is my memory is correct.
We'll play our usual B1G opponent, last year it was Mizzou from the SEC but you get the idea.
These are teams that I think we should be looking at for the 2015-16 or later years:
Wichita State
UNI
Notre Dame
Butler
Providence
VCU
Xavier
Davidson
San Diego St
SF Austin
Dayton
Purdue
Colorado St
Buffalo
Stanford
Temple
ODU
St. Mary's
Murray State
Richmond
Tulsa
Illinois St
La Tech
Harvard
Georgia St
Cent Michigan
Penn State
Memphis
Creighton
Bowling Green
Akron
Northwestern
Kent
William & Mary
E. Kentucky
From this year's schedule:
IPFW
Ball State
ETSU
Drake
Not sure why Evansville is not on your list. Would love to see us pick them up. They are in the CIT semifinals versus UT-Martin tomorrow night. D J Balentine is having a stellar tournament averaging 30 pts per game and shooting over 60% from 3. They were 5th in the MVC this year and only graduate one senior who did not start and did not contribute significantly (4.1ppg and 1.5 reb). They could be top 3 in the MVC next year with Illinois State losing Daishon Knight to graduation. Evansville should start 2 juniors and 3 seniors next year and perhaps have their best team in the Marty Simmons era. Having been on one of boards down there when my daughter was in school, I know that the administration would be eager for us to play on a regular basis.
Quote from: FWalum on March 30, 2015, 11:16:42 AM
Not sure why Evansville is not on your list. Would love to see us pick them up. They are in the CIT semifinals versus UT-Martin tomorrow night. D J Balentine is having a stellar tournament averaging 30 pts per game and shooting over 60% from 3. They were 5th in the MVC this year and only graduate one senior who did not start and did not contribute significantly (4.1ppg and 1.5 reb). They could be top 3 in the MVC next year with Illinois State losing Daishon Knight to graduation. Evansville should start 2 juniors and 3 seniors next year and perhaps have their best team in the Marty Simmons era. Having been on one of boards down there when my daughter was in school, I know that the administration would be eager for us to play on a regular basis.
I've always thought that Evansville would make a good every other year team. My list should also include: E'Ville, Belmont, Marquette, W. Michigan, E. Michigan, W. Kentucky, Loyola-Chicago, N Dakota St., Chattanooga, Middle Tenn St., and Portland.
These are teams that are in the top 150 or so RPI or other ranking systems. Some of which don't require a plane flight.
OK....the "shoulds" are more fun. Especially since we won't know much for certain til late summer.
Agreed on all the schools. But shoot higher than Top #76-150 whenever the chance opens up. Evansville is great. North Dakota State feels really Mid-Conny even though they are good. We are finally getting our location aligned for the public with Midwest cities. North Dakotapolis feels like Bark Charkley checking into the hotel or driving through Annapolis.
Quote from: vu72 on March 30, 2015, 09:03:39 AMThere may be a conference challenge. Gary Waters said that they are working on a challenge with the West Coast Conference is my memory is correct.
I have more confidence in the tooth fairy than I do for the HL to put together a long term successful conference challenge. We need to be early and aggressive in our OOC scheduling holding nothing in reserve for a challenge that will probably never be duct taped together.
At this point it looks like VU and Oakland will be sitting on top of the HL for the next 2 seasons. Could these 2 schools set aside one long weekend and look for 2 common opponents in the same general area (such as Tulsa and ORU)? We could do this east or west coast and anywhere in between that has 2 schools willing to give VU and Oakland return games.
Oakland isn't playing any team that isn't giving them a big time payday. :twocents: :twocents:
Quote from: crusadermoe on March 30, 2015, 08:22:07 AMThe holiday tournaments are always a big mystery. Hopefully we snag a high profile one this year since that would be 3 decent games rather than a Portland-Maine kind of thing in Nashville.
Nashville was Portland-Murray State-Drake, which was a very good draw in my opinion. Maine was at CMU, along with UAPB.
Quote from: HC on March 30, 2015, 02:00:22 PM
Oakland isn't playing any team that isn't giving them a big time payday. :twocents: :twocents:
That is not true. Only 6 (that sounds like an oxymoron) of the Grizzlies OOC games were to schools in big six conferences. The other 8 games were against mid-major or lower teams. They played Western Michigan, Eastern Michigan, Western Carolina, Chicago State, Toledo, Georgia State, Rochester College and Morehead State. That is more mid-majors than big conference opponents in the OOC schedule. You may have meant RPI-improving games in the OOC that are not big pay days.
I meant it as a joke
Oakland has been criticized often for scheduling unwinnable payday games against high major schools. Yet how often will high majors actually give a good mid major team a game in a situation where they could win. There is just no incentive. If the high major wins they're supposed to. No gain. If they should lose it goes down as a bad loss and hurts their RPI. Big loss for them. Probably for us only the best of the high majors will play us as even though we were good this year and will be better next year they still don't consider us a threat. But they will play us only at their place and never give us a return game. Middling high majors won't want to play us even at home as there will be a decent chance that we could win.
So I wonder if next year we won't have to take some of the same type games that Oakland was criticized for if we want the team to get experience against high major competition. Otherwise we are left with trying to schedule games with the best mid-majors we can with little chance of improving our RPI much next year over this year.
I don't envy the coaches trying to put together a decent schedule next year.
Quote from: nkvu on April 02, 2015, 02:21:00 PM
Oakland has been criticized often for (and should stop) scheduling so many unwinnable payday games against high major schools. Yet I understand the challenge; how often will high majors actually give a good mid major team a game in a situation where they could win. There is just no incentive. If the high major wins they're supposed to. No gain. If they should lose it goes down as a bad so-called "bad" loss and hurts their RPI boosts their RPI (for having played a team with a better record or, at the very least, on the road), demonstrates their weakness, harms their ranking, and diminishes their TV exposure. Big loss for them. Probably for us only the best of the high majors will play us as even though we were good this year and will be better next year they still don't consider us a threat. But they will play us only at their place and never give us a return game. Middling high majors won't want to play us even at home as there will be a decent chance that we could win.
So I wonder if next year we won't have to should, given that we're a much better team, take some of the same type games that Oakland was criticized for and shouldn't have been taking if we want the team to get the kind of invaluable experience against high major competition that is most constructive when there is a better-than-laughable chance of winning. Otherwise we are left with trying to schedule games with the best mid-majors we can with little chance of improving our RPI much next year over this year.
I don't envy the coaches trying to put together a decent schedule next year but I would mind having their salary ;).
Quote from: Valpower on April 02, 2015, 05:31:39 PM
I don't envy the coaches trying to put together a decent schedule next year but I would not mind having their salary ;).
[/quote]
I fixed it for you. ;)
Quote from: Valpower on April 02, 2015, 05:31:39 PM
Quote from: nkvu on April 02, 2015, 02:21:00 PM
Oakland has been criticized often for (and should stop) scheduling so many unwinnable payday games against high major schools. Yet I understand the challenge; how often will high majors actually give a good mid major team a game in a situation where they could win. There is just no incentive. If the high major wins they're supposed to. No gain. If they should lose it goes down as a bad so-called "bad" loss and hurts their RPI boosts their RPI (for having played a team with a better record or, at the very least, on the road), demonstrates their weakness, harms their ranking, and diminishes their TV exposure. Big loss for them. Probably for us only the best of the high majors will play us as even though we were good this year and will be better next year they still don't consider us a threat. But they will play us only at their place and never give us a return game. Middling high majors won't want to play us even at home as there will be a decent chance that we could win.
So I wonder if next year we won't have to should, given that we're a much better team, take some of the same type games that Oakland was criticized for and shouldn't have been taking if we want the team to get the kind of invaluable experience against high major competition that is most constructive when there is a better-than-laughable chance of winning. Otherwise we are left with trying to schedule games with the best mid-majors we can with little chance of improving our RPI much next year over this year.
I don't envy the coaches trying to put together a decent schedule next year but I would mind having their salary ;).
No, it hurts their RPI -- "their" being the high major team that loses to the mid-major. I think you misunderstood "their" in that sentence.
Quote from: StlVUFan on April 02, 2015, 06:08:12 PM
No, it hurts their RPI -- "their" being the high major team that loses to the mid-major. I think you misunderstood "their" in that sentence.
I'm alluding to the fact that scheduling a bad RPI team is the first thing that hurts your RPI, but losing to them hurts the same as losing to any other team (except for the home vs road difference). Remember, if you play Duke and Chicago State, both home games, and you lose one and win the other, your RPI will be the same regardless of whom you beat.
Quote from: Valpower on April 02, 2015, 11:23:47 PM
Quote from: StlVUFan on April 02, 2015, 06:08:12 PM
No, it hurts their RPI -- "their" being the high major team that loses to the mid-major. I think you misunderstood "their" in that sentence.
I'm alluding to the fact that scheduling a bad RPI team is the first thing that hurts your RPI, but losing to them hurts the same as losing to any other team (except for the home vs road difference). Remember, if you play Duke and Chicago State, both home games, and you lose one and win the other, your RPI will be the same regardless of whom you beat.
But that's not what nkvu meant by "hurts their RPI". He was explaining the reasons why the high major refuses to schedule you.
Quote from: StlVUFan on April 03, 2015, 12:39:23 PM
Quote from: Valpower on April 02, 2015, 11:23:47 PM
Quote from: StlVUFan on April 02, 2015, 06:08:12 PM
No, it hurts their RPI -- "their" being the high major team that loses to the mid-major. I think you misunderstood "their" in that sentence.
I'm alluding to the fact that scheduling a bad RPI team is the first thing that hurts your RPI, but losing to them hurts the same as losing to any other team (except for the home vs road difference). Remember, if you play Duke and Chicago State, both home games, and you lose one and win the other, your RPI will be the same regardless of whom you beat.
But that's not what nkvu meant by "hurts their RPI". He was explaining the reasons why the high major refuses to schedule you.
Actually a 50 RPI Valpo team that finishes 25-5 is substantially better for a direct opponent's RPI and SOS than a 48 RPI UCLA team that finishes 20-13.
Its not the threat of a bad RPI they're afraid of, its the unneeded threat of losing at home. Power Conference teams can schedule 200+ RPI cupcakes with no repercussions because their conference will carry their RPI and SOS load.
Quote from: HC on April 02, 2015, 12:50:46 PMI meant it as a joke
It's called a smiley ( :) )
Would it be better if I took it as a joke when you were serious?
I'm being serious about the use of smileys(sp?). ;)
I'm seriously not using smileys.
Quote from: HC on April 03, 2015, 03:18:08 PMI'm seriously not using smileys.
I can't tell if you're serious or not.
That's part of what makes me great, and also very difficult to live with (I'm told).
Quote from: HC on April 03, 2015, 07:10:34 PM
That's part of what makes me great, and also very difficult to live with (I'm told).
(http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/329/132/128.png)
Quote from: historyman on April 03, 2015, 01:03:43 PM
Quote from: HC on April 02, 2015, 12:50:46 PMI meant it as a joke
I'm being serious about the use of smileys(sp?). ;)
This is starting to sound like an argument about vermouth. HC can't stand the stuff.
I like a _glass_ of vermouth, on ice, just fine as a summer apertif (in France it's what you get when you order a martini - a glass of Martini and Rossi!).
Humor might sometimes be best when it's not dripping with the stuff.
But, surely it's a matter of taste.
Quote from: Valpower on April 02, 2015, 11:23:47 PMI'm alluding to the fact that scheduling a bad RPI team is the first thing that hurts your RPI, but losing to them hurts the same as losing to any other team (except for the home vs road difference). Remember, if you play Duke and Chicago State, both home games, and you lose one and win the other, your RPI will be the same regardless of whom you beat.
For a single "major" team in isolation, what you're saying makes some sense. If you only schedule low RPI patsies you're not going to wind up with a good RPI.
But, don't forget about the special sauce of conference play. If _everybody_ plays patsies OOC, and comes in to conference play with a nice, shiny W-L record (even if it _shouldn't_ mean much) it's going to help boost all of their conference mates' RPI with the big, fat, 0.5*(opponents' W-L record) contribution to RPI. And, everybody (in the conference) wins (and plays in the NCAA at-large or NIT) in the end.
Granted, that strategy works better when they play half-decent teams OOC. But, probably only if they can win the games.
I've not run the numbers, but that seems to be about how it goes...
Word seems to be that the Crusaders will make an international exhibition trip later this summer.
Maybe the West Coast??
[tweet]603228754899513345[/tweet]
It's Canada.
Quote from: valpopal on May 26, 2015, 02:53:23 PM
It's Canada.
Could it be maybe around the Montreal area? That would be a good move for Max and Tevonn.
Watch for a game or 2 on the West Coast.
USC - Valpo?
Or could it be UCLA?? You know, one Indiana Mr. Basketball doing a favor for another??
It could also be the Canadian West Coast, after the Montreal area, in this preseason trip.
Pepperdine, St Mary's.
Quote from: a3uge on May 29, 2015, 04:16:10 PM
Pepperdine, St Mary's.
Cal, UC Irvine, UC Davis, and Santa Barbara would be nice as well. SD State might be a nice test, with a possible return trip to the ARC?
Could this be part of a Horizon-West Coast Challenge?
Quote from: vu72 on June 05, 2015, 12:25:47 PM
Could this be part of a Horizon-West Coast Challenge?
Mid major challenges don't work and don't exist.
Quote from: a3uge on June 05, 2015, 12:58:31 PM
Quote from: vu72 on June 05, 2015, 12:25:47 PM
Could this be part of a Horizon-West Coast Challenge?
Mid major challenges don't work and don't exist.
Well, Gary Waters was quoted in saying that the Horizon was working on a challenge with the West Coast. Maybe you know something he doesn't! :o
So what exactly doesn't work? We schedule games against good mid-major teams, thus reducing scheduling issues. Sounds like a plan to me...
Unless the Horizon League and West Coast Conference can get a tv deal worked out with CBS or ESPN with some travel money involved for each program during the length of the contract, money would be an issue with going from California or Washington to Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, or Ohio for a few of the West Coast teams, or even a small handful of the HL teams, as they don't have a vast athletic budget to handle it. Plus, the lost ticket revenue because fans of Pepperdine or Santa Clara aren't going to fly to Detroit or Youngstown for a game, if they can stay home and watch on tv. You also won't see a lot of fans from Oakland University or Wright State flying to a game at St. Mary's or San Francisco. It just doesn't look financial feasible or worth the time, when most of both of these conferences aren't a financial/revenue boom based on ticket sales to their arenas. Plus, I'm not real interested in an HL-WCC basketball challenge anyway.
Quote from: vu72 on June 05, 2015, 05:21:48 PM
Quote from: a3uge on June 05, 2015, 12:58:31 PM
Quote from: vu72 on June 05, 2015, 12:25:47 PM
Could this be part of a Horizon-West Coast Challenge?
Mid major challenges don't work and don't exist.
Well, Gary Waters was quoted in saying that the Horizon was working on a challenge with the West Coast. Maybe you know something he doesn't! :o
So what exactly doesn't work? We schedule games against good mid-major teams, thus reducing scheduling issues. Sounds like a plan to me...
Scheduling and potentially giving up buy games make these impossible. If, say NKU gets a date with Duke on November 16th, they're not going to want to give that up to fly to Oregon to play Pacific University. Works the other way around too... Gonzaga isn't going to play at the ARC when they could find an easy 200 RPI team to beat up at home or play a top 10 team on the road. You also have to take into account other preseason tournaments schools have worked out that guarantees 2 or 3 neutral court games, some against really good opponents. You're then throwing away 3 dates for one game.
Just doesn't work out and hasn't worked out forever. Every time its been tried it fails.
I guess perhaps the WCC is a bad idea but how about the MAC? Look, we can't sit around complaining about scheduling D2 and/or D3's if a conference challenge is out of the question. Scheduling is only going to get harder as we keep winning.
Pacific (or at least the one in the WCC) is in Stockton, CA. Doesn't change the arguments at all, just wanted to put that out there.
Quote from: aevans12 on June 08, 2015, 01:08:53 PM
Pacific (or at least the one in the WCC) is in Stockton, CA. Doesn't change the arguments at all, just wanted to put that out there.
Guess it's University of the Pacific, not Pacific University. Nonetheless, a very irrelevant basketball program.
Quote from: a3uge on June 08, 2015, 12:21:13 PMScheduling and potentially giving up buy games make these impossible. If, say NKU gets a date with Duke on November 16th, they're not going to want to give that up to fly to Oregon to play Pacific University. Works the other way around too... Gonzaga isn't going to play at the ARC when they could find an easy 200 RPI team to beat up at home or play a top 10 team on the road. You also have to take into account other preseason tournaments schools have worked out that guarantees 2 or 3 neutral court games, some against really good opponents. You're then throwing away 3 dates for one game.
Just doesn't work out and hasn't worked out forever. Every time its been tried it fails.
Difficult yes, totally unworkable well maybe not! Think bigger and lets also broaden our thinking to all 10 team conferences for simplicity.
First off forget any 1 game per year challenge and jump to 2. Each league would then require its members to keep open dates for a predetermined Friday, Saturday, Sunday 2 road or home game weekend (under the 2 game challenge) where say the 1'st, 3'rd, 5'th, 7'th and 9'th best HL teams would hit the road to play their equivalent ranked opponents with the idea that those same teams would then switch the home vs road designation in the following season. Should be able to rerank those 5 road and 5 home groupings each year in order to provide for the strongest match ups.
That said, a MVC matchup might be easier and some flexibility for substitution might need to be introduced to minimize travel.
Quote from: justducky on June 08, 2015, 02:57:50 PM
Quote from: a3uge on June 08, 2015, 12:21:13 PMScheduling and potentially giving up buy games make these impossible. If, say NKU gets a date with Duke on November 16th, they're not going to want to give that up to fly to Oregon to play Pacific University. Works the other way around too... Gonzaga isn't going to play at the ARC when they could find an easy 200 RPI team to beat up at home or play a top 10 team on the road. You also have to take into account other preseason tournaments schools have worked out that guarantees 2 or 3 neutral court games, some against really good opponents. You're then throwing away 3 dates for one game.
Just doesn't work out and hasn't worked out forever. Every time its been tried it fails.
Difficult yes, totally unworkable well maybe not! Think bigger and lets also broaden our thinking to all 10 team conferences for simplicity.
First off forget any 1 game per year challenge and jump to 2. Each league would then require its members to keep open dates for a predetermined Friday, Saturday, Sunday 2 road or home game weekend (under the 2 game challenge) where say the 1'st, 3'rd, 5'th, 7'th and 9'th best HL teams would hit the road to play their equivalent ranked opponents with the idea that those same teams would then switch the home vs road designation in the following season. Should be able to rerank those 5 road and 5 home groupings each year in order to provide for the strongest match ups.
That said, a MVC matchup might be easier and some flexibility for substitution might need to be introduced to minimize travel.
Again, if a team like Wisconsin is looking for a home game on a specific weekend and call up UIC, why would UIC turn that down to play LMU? Scheduling is already difficult, so as much as you think it would be awesome for Valpo to play Wichita State and UNI at home, it's just not worth it for the bottom of each league to handcuff a weekend to play another 200+ RPI team. It also doesn't make sense for Wichita State to waste a weekend playing a decimated Green Bay team when they could have the opportunity to schedule, say a Big East school that weekend. As great as it may seem on paper, there's too many moving parts and too many mouths to feed in order for this to be practical.
Quote from: justducky on June 08, 2015, 02:57:50 PMThat said, a MVC matchup might be easier and some flexibility for substitution might need to be introduced to minimize travel.
This upcoming season the MVC is restarting their conference challenge with the MWC (previously held 2009-2012). Unlike other challenges, it is being held over multiple weeks instead of just one week/weekend to better accommodate already scheduled games.
http://www.mvc-sports.com/mbasketball/news/2014-15/8021/mvc-and-mountain-west-renew-challenge-series/#.VXY74M_BzGe (http://www.mvc-sports.com/mbasketball/news/2014-15/8021/mvc-and-mountain-west-renew-challenge-series/#.VXY74M_BzGe)
Quote from: a3uge on June 08, 2015, 03:48:28 PMAgain, if a team like Wisconsin is looking for a home game on a specific weekend and call up UIC, why would UIC turn that down to play LMU?
I acknowledge the problems so please don't take this rebuttal as one of my standard arguments. ;) But ------ all mid major conferences are having great difficulties finding worthwhile opponents for home and home series, so if The HL required UIC to travel to Portland for a Friday night Nov 20 game followed by a flight from there to take on LMU that Sunday 11-22 then UIC would either have to do this or face penalty or expulsion. Many of us have championed HL minimum scheduling requirements and this could be incorporated into those rules. In return UIC could expect 2 following season home games against similarly seeded WCC conference opponents who might be traveling from or to maybe GB, VU or UWM for the second game of their long weekend road trip.. These would be the rules and even Oakland would have to follow.
Quote from: a3uge on June 08, 2015, 03:48:28 PMso as much as you think it would be awesome for Valpo to play Wichita State and UNI at home, it's just not worth it for the bottom of each league to handcuff a weekend to play another 200+ RPI team. It also doesn't make sense for Wichita State to waste a weekend playing a decimated Green Bay team when they could have the opportunity to schedule, say a Big East school that weekend. As great as it may seem on paper, there's too many moving parts and too many mouths to feed in order for this to be practical.
This is another instance where a preseason AD, coaches and or sportswriters poll might be necessary towards establishment of each conferences team seeding. If you don't want to host two of the worst teams in the WCC then strengthen your recruiting and instantly the HL could respond with stronger opponents.
This would be a good challenge, and adds a nice every other year trip to the West Coast. Unless you're going to do something with the A10/14 or Big Least, there aren't a lot of conferences laying around with the types of players/teams/coaches that the WCC has if MVC, MWC, ACC, B1G and others are tied up.
It would be nice to see teams like St Marys, BYU, San Diego (Jenny Craig Arena), Santa Clara at Valpo. There's been some fun players too -- potential NBA Finals MVP Matt "Delly" Dellavedova (another AIS player too), Big Country Bryant, Tyler Haws, a little floppy haired PG named Steve Nash, Michael Olowokandi.
Plus they have a tradition with SF (Bill Russell anyone or Bill Cartwright) and now former Valpo assistant Rex Walters as Coach.
And little ol Pacific was in the tourney 4 times since 2004.
Big Country was an Eddie Sutton guy at Oklahoma State. Even with the rich history of WCC basketball going to the NBA, there would have to be an almost tournament-like setup for this to be worth it for any of the commuter school HL teams to make the trip to the West Coast valuable for them. Plus, I'd almost suspect that this would have be a challenge that happened on Thansgiving weekend, just so teams wouldn't have to miss class time for travel to and from wherever the game(s) would be played. If not a tournament-like event, then each WCC school would need another Midwest game, and each HL school would need another West Coast game, otherwise a there and back challenge would be worthless. I still don't see this working out, especially without a tv contract that makes this possibility feasible for every one of the schools involved.
Someone mentioned the MAC, and I don't believe that will happen either, as the MAC values basketball about as well as John Calipari values education.
Quote from: valporun on June 10, 2015, 08:13:58 AM
Big Country was an Eddie Sutton guy at Oklahoma State. Even with the rich history of WCC basketball going to the NBA, there would have to be an almost tournament-like setup for this to be worth it for any of the commuter school HL teams to make the trip to the West Coast valuable for them. Plus, I'd almost suspect that this would have be a challenge that happened on Thansgiving weekend, just so teams wouldn't have to miss class time for travel to and from wherever the game(s) would be played. If not a tournament-like event, then each WCC school would need another Midwest game, and each HL school would need another West Coast game, otherwise a there and back challenge would be worthless. I still don't see this working out, especially without a tv contract that makes this possibility feasible for every one of the schools involved.
Someone mentioned the MAC, and I don't believe that will happen either, as the MAC values basketball about as well as John Calipari values education.
[/b]
Yeah, it was me. You are right about the MAC being a football conference but still, they ended up being more highly ranked in basketball then the Horizon. To me this is all about getting a better schedule via good mid-majors then having to schedule D2 and D3 teams. Looking at the year end Sagarin rankings, the MAC East division finished rated #11! The MAC West division finished 13th. The Horizon ended up 18th. :(
Individually, The higher rated teams were from the MAC,were as follows: Buffalo 63rd, Central Michigan 86th, Toledo 91st, Akron 115th and Kent St 116th. I stopped there because all of those teams were ranked higher then our third best team, CSU, which ended ranked 119th. Valpo and GB would fit in at number 2 and 3 with rankings at 68 and 75.
The result of a MAC-Horizon challenge would be several close games with quality mid-major opponents. Cost is minimal as travel for most match-ups would be a bus ride.
Quote from: vu72 on June 10, 2015, 09:48:14 AM
Quote from: valporun on June 10, 2015, 08:13:58 AM
Big Country was an Eddie Sutton guy at Oklahoma State. Even with the rich history of WCC basketball going to the NBA, there would have to be an almost tournament-like setup for this to be worth it for any of the commuter school HL teams to make the trip to the West Coast valuable for them. Plus, I'd almost suspect that this would have be a challenge that happened on Thansgiving weekend, just so teams wouldn't have to miss class time for travel to and from wherever the game(s) would be played. If not a tournament-like event, then each WCC school would need another Midwest game, and each HL school would need another West Coast game, otherwise a there and back challenge would be worthless. I still don't see this working out, especially without a tv contract that makes this possibility feasible for every one of the schools involved.
Someone mentioned the MAC, and I don't believe that will happen either, as the MAC values basketball about as well as John Calipari values education.
[/b]
Yeah, it was me. You are right about the MAC being a football conference but still, they ended up being more highly ranked in basketball then the Horizon. To me this is all about getting a better schedule via good mid-majors then having to schedule D2 and D3 teams. Looking at the year end Sagarin rankings, the MAC East division finished rated #11! The MAC West division finished 13th. The Horizon ended up 18th. :(
Individually, The higher rated teams were from the MAC,were as follows: Buffalo 63rd, Central Michigan 86th, Toledo 91st, Akron 115th and Kent St 116th. I stopped there because all of those teams were ranked higher then our third best team, CSU, which ended ranked 119th. Valpo and GB would fit in at number 2 and 3 with rankings at 68 and 75.
The result of a MAC-Horizon challenge would be several close games with quality mid-major opponents. Cost is minimal as travel for most match-ups would be a bus ride.
The MAC was ranked so high because their OOC SOS was the second worst in all of D1. Since every team had a poor SOS, each team's Sagarin, RPI, etc improved because they were playing each other in conference twice. The horizon suffered because they had the 4th ranked SOS. The problem isn't the lack of scheduling quality mid majors. The problem is the majority of Horizon League teams are scheduling way too tough. I had a post a while ago detailing the MAC's scheduling and how they gamed the system... I think their highest RPI win was like 90 or something.
Quote from: a3uge on June 10, 2015, 10:48:07 AM
The MAC was ranked so high because their OOC SOS was the second worst in all of D1. Since every team had a poor SOS, each team's Sagarin, RPI, etc improved because they were playing each other in conference twice. The horizon suffered because they had the 4th ranked SOS. The problem isn't the lack of scheduling quality mid majors. The problem is the majority of Horizon League teams are scheduling way too tough. I had a post a while ago detailing the MAC's scheduling and how they gamed the system... I think their highest RPI win was like 90 or something.
The HL SOS was artificially inflated by the "Oakland effect" of obscene over scheduling. It's kind of like saying the per capita income in Charlotte NC is $20 M/yr based on a random sampling of 10 people, 1 of which happens to be Michael Jordan (exaggerated to make a point). The problem for several of the other 8 programs is not over scheduling, but under performing. Right now about half the league recruits, coaches and plays at a low major level.
Quote from: wh on June 10, 2015, 12:53:39 PM
Quote from: a3uge on June 10, 2015, 10:48:07 AM
The MAC was ranked so high because their OOC SOS was the second worst in all of D1. Since every team had a poor SOS, each team's Sagarin, RPI, etc improved because they were playing each other in conference twice. The horizon suffered because they had the 4th ranked SOS. The problem isn't the lack of scheduling quality mid majors. The problem is the majority of Horizon League teams are scheduling way too tough. I had a post a while ago detailing the MAC's scheduling and how they gamed the system... I think their highest RPI win was like 90 or something.
The HL SOS was artificially inflated by the "Oakland effect" of obscene over scheduling. It's kind of like saying the per capita income in Charlotte NC is $20 M/yr based on a random sampling of 10 people, 1 of which happens to be Michael Jordan (exaggerated to make a point). The problem for several of the other 8 programs is not over scheduling, but under performing. Right now about half the league recruits, coaches and plays at a low major level.
True, Oakland pulled everyone down a significant amount, but the Horizon still had 7 of 9 schools with a SOS below 200 while the MAC had only 2 of 12. 5 MAC schools had a +300 OOC SOS while the Horizon had 0. Even take Oakland out, and the SOS average is too low. No reason why Detroit needed a top 50 schedule. Gotta have everyone try to finish above .500.
Quote from: a3uge on June 10, 2015, 01:10:50 PM
Quote from: wh on June 10, 2015, 12:53:39 PM
Quote from: a3uge on June 10, 2015, 10:48:07 AM
The MAC was ranked so high because their OOC SOS was the second worst in all of D1. Since every team had a poor SOS, each team's Sagarin, RPI, etc improved because they were playing each other in conference twice. The horizon suffered because they had the 4th ranked SOS. The problem isn't the lack of scheduling quality mid majors. The problem is the majority of Horizon League teams are scheduling way too tough. I had a post a while ago detailing the MAC's scheduling and how they gamed the system... I think their highest RPI win was like 90 or something.
The HL SOS was artificially inflated by the "Oakland effect" of obscene over scheduling. It's kind of like saying the per capita income in Charlotte NC is $20 M/yr based on a random sampling of 10 people, 1 of which happens to be Michael Jordan (exaggerated to make a point). The problem for several of the other 8 programs is not over scheduling, but under performing. Right now about half the league recruits, coaches and plays at a low major level.
True, Oakland pulled everyone SOS a significant amount, but the Horizon still had 7 of 9 schools with a SOS below 200 while the MAC had only 2 of 12. 5 MAC schools had a +300 OOC SOS while the Horizon had 0. Even take Oakland out, and the SOS average is too low. No reason why Detroit needed a top 50 schedule. Gotta have everyone try to finish above .500.
First you said, "The problem is the majority of Horizon League teams are scheduling way too tough." Now you're saying, "the Horizon still had 7 of 9 schools with a SOS below 200 (which supports my counter point)." I'm confused.
Quote from: wh on June 10, 2015, 01:27:12 PM
Quote from: a3uge on June 10, 2015, 01:10:50 PM
Quote from: wh on June 10, 2015, 12:53:39 PM
Quote from: a3uge on June 10, 2015, 10:48:07 AM
The MAC was ranked so high because their OOC SOS was the second worst in all of D1. Since every team had a poor SOS, each team's Sagarin, RPI, etc improved because they were playing each other in conference twice. The horizon suffered because they had the 4th ranked SOS. The problem isn't the lack of scheduling quality mid majors. The problem is the majority of Horizon League teams are scheduling way too tough. I had a post a while ago detailing the MAC's scheduling and how they gamed the system... I think their highest RPI win was like 90 or something.
The HL SOS was artificially inflated by the "Oakland effect" of obscene over scheduling. It's kind of like saying the per capita income in Charlotte NC is $20 M/yr based on a random sampling of 10 people, 1 of which happens to be Michael Jordan (exaggerated to make a point). The problem for several of the other 8 programs is not over scheduling, but under performing. Right now about half the league recruits, coaches and plays at a low major level.
True, Oakland pulled everyone SOS a significant amount, but the Horizon still had 7 of 9 schools with a SOS below 200 while the MAC had only 2 of 12. 5 MAC schools had a +300 OOC SOS while the Horizon had 0. Even take Oakland out, and the SOS average is too low. No reason why Detroit needed a top 50 schedule. Gotta have everyone try to finish above .500.
First you said, "The problem is the majority of Horizon League teams are scheduling way too tough." Now you're saying, "the Horizon still had 7 of 9 schools with a SOS below 200 (which supports my counter point)." I'm confused.
7 of 9 HL schools had OOC SOS's between 1 and 200. Lower = tougher schedule.
Clearly the horizon has taken huge steps backwards and the one constant is LeCrone. I'll use Sagarin for results but I'm confident rpi or others would create the same results.
The Horizon League finished last year ranked 18th in the Sagarin's. There has been a steady decline as follows: 2013-2014: 13 2012-2013: 12 2011-2012: 12 2010-2011: 10
I next looked at the individual team rankings and then, to be fair, and to take into account rebuilding years, used an average of the last five years final rankings. Here are the results:
Valpo #107
CSU #119
GB #122
Det #144
Oak #156
WSU #170
Mil #185
YSU #213
UIC #260
There have been a total of 10 teams finishing ranked in the top 100. Valpo, 3 times, CSU 3 times, GB, twice, Detroit, once, and Oakland once.
Draw your own conclusions...
So is there anybody else in North America other than Indiana State, the HL, and the Montreal area YMCA ;) who is willing to play us? Its June 10th and we have one OOC game confirmed? Hope ISU doesn't catch wind of our latest rumor or they might decide to renege.
@valporun You are correct that there was Big Country Bryant Reeves who played for Sutton, OKSTU and the Memphis Grizzlies, but I was specifically referring to Santa Clara's WCC POY Big Country John Bryant, whom I had the chance to see play live at UNC one year. He was big but nimble. He clearly has embraced the nickname Big Country as his twitter handle is @Big54Country.
http://www.santaclarabroncos.com/sports/m-baskbl/2005-06/releases/012106aaa.html (http://www.santaclarabroncos.com/sports/m-baskbl/2005-06/releases/012106aaa.html)
I guess I don't WCC basketball enough to remember that name.
Quote from: a3uge on June 10, 2015, 01:10:50 PMNo reason why Detroit needed a top 50 schedule.
Remember Detroit was predicted for third or fourth last year in the league. A lot of people thought they'd be pretty good. It's easy to know Oakland's schedule last year was too tough, but very often it's tough to know in advance how hard you need to schedule. Another reason this ain't so easy.
Apparently, as part of a West Coast swing during Thanksgiving break, Valpo will play at Oregon on Nov. 22.
Look for Oregon State also
Looks like a home game vs UTSA (12-16 last year)
Quote from: a3uge on June 14, 2015, 11:22:04 AMLooks like a home game vs UTSA (12-16 last year)
If this is your typical home and road series then it would almost seem impolite not to pay a brief visit to Scott sitting in nearby Waco. Scheduling UTSA doesn't make too much sense unless you can make it a two game road trip.
Quote from: justducky on June 14, 2015, 03:49:11 PM
Quote from: a3uge on June 14, 2015, 11:22:04 AMLooks like a home game vs UTSA (12-16 last year)
If this is your typical home and road series then it would almost seem impolite not to pay a brief visit to Scott sitting in nearby Waco. Scheduling UTSA doesn't make too much sense unless you can make it a two game road trip.
Face it. It isn't going to happen no matter how much we moan, groan and quibble because as previously stated the preferences of the Drew brothers and their family is to not play a game between Valpo and Baylor unless it scheduled by the NCAA tournament.
Let's see a home-and-home against TCU!
Quote from: valpotx on June 14, 2015, 11:02:28 PMLet's see a home-and-home against TCU!
Well Fort Worth is a bit further from San Antonio than Waco but TCU could also meet the needs for another quality opponent and travel efficiencies. No reason in the world for a one game road trip to UTSA.
As a temporary escape from the local rain and flooding i wandered over to Racer Nation to see what they might be discussing. Same old story as nobody will travel to Murray and at-large quality bigs will not even host them for good pay day games. Sound familiar? I hope Bryce is developing better results but I find it hard to get optimistic. Saw no speculation of us staying or reappearing on the MSU schedule but with their new coach who knows. (maybe Prohm will want to give us a game with Iowa State so he can get some revenge? Na! Much too risky!)
So if year in and year out you have phone records of lengthy conversations with every top 100 team in the nation all of which are unwilling to play you (for anything less than larcenous terms and conditions) will the NCAA finally realize that the system is broken? Isn't it adding insult to injury for any top mid-major to cobble together the best OOC schedule they can find only to be told after NCAA bids and seeding that it wasn't strong enough and you just haven't been able to beat any of those teams that you haven't been able to schedule.
OK so obviously I need a week of sunshine to cheer me up or maybe some confirmed scheduling announcements so that I can put on my happy face. :)
Quote from: valpo64 on June 13, 2015, 01:33:14 PM
Look for Oregon State also
Confirmed by Jon Rothstein this morning.
[tweet]610778572974915584[/tweet]
Terrible game for Valpo. There is no upside to scheduling road games vs bottom dwelling power conference teams. None.
Yep, no upside to scheduling a game against a team which went 14-2 at home last year, including 7-2 in Pac-12 play, and rose to 7th in the final Pac-12 standings under a first-year head coach, just one game out of fifth. And has one of the nation's top recruiting classes coming in next year.
Quote from: a3uge on June 16, 2015, 12:30:27 PM
Terrible game for Valpo. There is no upside to scheduling road games vs bottom dwelling power conference teams. None.
I dunno, I'd be pretty pleased if Valpo won. Oregon State beat UCLA, Arizona. An RPI of 133 in the PAC-12 isn't fantastic, but it's not like loss there will kill our RPI.
Quote from: agibson on June 16, 2015, 01:09:57 PM
Quote from: a3uge on June 16, 2015, 12:30:27 PM
Terrible game for Valpo. There is no upside to scheduling road games vs bottom dwelling power conference teams. None.
I dunno, I'd be pretty pleased if Valpo won. Oregon State beat UCLA, Arizona. An RPI of 133 in the PAC-12 isn't fantastic, but it's not like loss there will kill our RPI.
After looking at their schedule last year, Oregon State did actually finish above .500 and doesn't lose anybody next year... So I guess it's not that terrible if Oregon State isn't a bottom dweller anymore.
Gut reaction was that it was another Missouri/Nebraska scheduling, which were both lose-lose games.
Quote from: vusupporter on June 16, 2015, 01:04:13 PM
Yep, no upside to scheduling a game against a team which went 14-2 at home last year, including 7-2 in Pac-12 play, and rose to 7th in the final Pac-12 standings under a first-year head coach, just one game out of fifth. And has one of the nation's top recruiting classes coming in next year.
Looked like they had no seniors and finished the year at 133 RPI. Oregon at 27 RPI lost 4 seniors.
I am glad that both are scheduled (is Oregon official?). We can not cherry pick our opponents like an Indiana or ND can. We will have to take what we can get and then learn to win in some difficult places. We have a team that needs to be tested so be prepared to throw standard cautions to the wind.
I saw that Kentucky announced their OOC and we were not on it. That didn't disappoint me but somebody here was wanting them.
Keep lining them up! I hope that UTSA will be the easiest game that we play.
"What doesn't kill ya, makes ya stronger"
Opinion of a non-RPI guy: This group of players is on the verge of being a really, really good team. But they have got to get battle-hardened. Short of pulling a Kampe and selling your soul for a gazillion guarantee games, this young group has to be put in OOC situations where they learn how to confidently play away from home and compete/win against power conference talent in large arenas with rough crowds. No more Ark-Pine Bluffs, IU South Bends, etc. Time to challenge some big boys. Maybe the season record won't be as shiny, but the possibility of going deeper into post season certainly would be strengthened.
Quote from: VULB#62 on June 16, 2015, 02:44:38 PM
"What doesn't kill ya, makes ya stronger"
Opinion of a non-RPI guy: This group of players is on the verge of being a really, really good team. But they have got to get battle-hardened. Short of pulling a Kampe and selling your soul for a gazillion guarantee games, this young group has to be put in OOC situations where they learn how to confidently play away from home and compete/win against power conference talent in large arenas with rough crowds. No more Ark-Pine Bluffs, IU South Bends, etc. Time to challenge some big boys. Maybe the season record won't be as shiny, but the possibility of going deeper into post season certainly would be strengthened.
Only one point to correct you on. This is NOT a young group. It is a very mature, very experienced team that has played together for at least a whole season. Time to shine even more then last year.
These are the guys who will see the bulk of the action:
Vashil (if truly back) 5th year senior
Keith Senior
Darien Senior
E. Victor 5th year senior
Alec Junior
Shane 4th year Junior
Jubril Junior
Lexus 3rd year Sophomore
David Sophomore
Tevon Sophomore
Derrik Freshman
Quote from: a3uge on June 16, 2015, 12:30:27 PMTerrible game for Valpo. There is no upside to scheduling road games vs bottom dwelling power conference teams. None.
Why is this a terrible game for VU? Most posters want an upgraded OOC schedule, and here is a good game against a quality opponent, a game that gives VU, with perhaps its most talented and deepest team in years, a chance to break a long losing streak against power conference teams. If we are what we say we are -- a really good team -- then we should be able to win our fair share of the games against the Oregon States of the world.
Paul
Quote from: 78crusader on June 16, 2015, 04:11:59 PM
Quote from: a3uge on June 16, 2015, 12:30:27 PMTerrible game for Valpo. There is no upside to scheduling road games vs bottom dwelling power conference teams. None.
Why is this a terrible game for VU? Most posters want an upgraded OOC schedule, and here is a good game against a quality opponent, a game that gives VU, with perhaps its most talented and deepest team in years, a chance to break a long losing streak against power conference teams. If we are what we say we are -- a really good team -- then we should be able to win our fair share of the games against the Oregon States of the world.
Paul
Quote from: a3uge on June 16, 2015, 01:16:19 PM
Quote from: agibson on June 16, 2015, 01:09:57 PM
Quote from: a3uge on June 16, 2015, 12:30:27 PM
Terrible game for Valpo. There is no upside to scheduling road games vs bottom dwelling power conference teams. None.
I dunno, I'd be pretty pleased if Valpo won. Oregon State beat UCLA, Arizona. An RPI of 133 in the PAC-12 isn't fantastic, but it's not like loss there will kill our RPI.
After looking at their schedule last year, Oregon State did actually finish above .500 and doesn't lose anybody next year... So I guess it's not that terrible if Oregon State isn't a bottom dweller anymore.
Gut reaction was that it was another Missouri/Nebraska scheduling, which were both lose-lose games.
Sent from my XT1095 using Tapatalk
[quote author=vu72 link=topic=2152.msg59800#msg59800 date=1434486168
Only one point to correct you on. This is NOT a young group. It is a very mature, very experienced team that has played together for at least a whole season. Time to shine even more then last year.
These are the guys who will see the bulk of the action:
Vashil (if truly back) 5th year senior
Keith Senior
Darien Senior
E. Victor 5th year senior
Alec Junior
Shane 4th year Junior
Jubril Junior
Lexus 3rd year Sophomore
David Sophomore
Tevon Sophomore
Derrik Freshman
[/quote]
I definitely agree with experienced cuz so many played as freshmen/sophs. They frequently played with a maturity beyond their chronological ages, but they overall, IMO, are still young in the sense that they, as a team, have a way still to go and they'll make dumb errors that they would get away with against lesser competition. That's why I think pushing them against stiffer competition is good and will increase team maturity faster.
72, if you're wondering, my definition of a "Not Young" team would be the Rowdy-KVW 2012-13 team where basically the first 6 or 7 on the floor were seniors. This team is a blend of experienced youth (my bold) and senior maturity. But there will be times when there will not be a senior on the floor. I would definitely be more than willing to remove the 'young' tag next season though ;D
All quiet on the scheduling front. :snore: How should this be interpreted? ??? Is there still hope for a good OOC lineup :thumbsup:; or should we start to panic? :o
Don't panic...I think we will be OK on a nice OOC schedule
So we're looking at home against UTSA and away against Indiana State, Oregon and Oregon State so far. Correct?
I am told that Missouri State will play at the ARC on Saturday, December 19. Unfortunately, most students will be gone from campus for that game. Confirmed that the road games dates in Oregon will be Oregon on November 22 and Oregon State on November 24.
http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/notes-on-valparaiso-men-s-basketball---schedule/article_61e3bbc8-24e4-11e5-8377-cb0b97a5c115.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/notes-on-valparaiso-men-s-basketball---schedule/article_61e3bbc8-24e4-11e5-8377-cb0b97a5c115.html)
I hope the Belmont series is for real!
Quote from: SanityLost17 on July 07, 2015, 09:17:12 PM
http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/notes-on-valparaiso-men-s-basketball---schedule/article_61e3bbc8-24e4-11e5-8377-cb0b97a5c115.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/notes-on-valparaiso-men-s-basketball---schedule/article_61e3bbc8-24e4-11e5-8377-cb0b97a5c115.html)
I hope the Belmont series is for real!
My early take is that we need to find some good competition for our final 4 or 5 openings or we will have very little chance of an at-large bid if we total 5 losses. Looks like Oregon, Oregon St, and Oakland are our only near certain top 100 opponents with Belmont listed as somewhat likely and UWM, Ind St, and Missouri St. all with some potential for that type of significant rise.
OK. If the rest of our schedule is filled with twiddle-dum or twiddle-dee type programs could we get an at-large bid with losses at Oregon, Oregon St and Oakland coupled with a loss to Oakland in the HL championship game? Would only 4 losses coupled with almost no significant wins get us in?
Not sure that I understand Oren's thought that we may end up with 1 or 2 non d-1's on the schedule. With the addition of NKU we have 2 fewer OOC opponents to line up than a year ago. Moreover, ml is on record as saying they need to do a better job of OOC scheduling, including moving away from playing non D-1's. IMO there is no justification for bringing anyone into the ARC other than a D-1. The "no one wants to play us at the ARC" excuse is getting pretty tired. Other good mids make it happen - so should we.
Quote from: wh on July 08, 2015, 04:12:06 PM
Not sure that I understand Oren's thought that we may end up with 1 or 2 non d-1's on the schedule. With the addition of NKU we have 2 fewer OOC opponents to line up than a year ago. Moreover, ml is on record as saying they need to do a better job of OOC scheduling, including moving away from playing non D-1's. IMO there is no justification for bringing anyone into the ARC other than a D-1. The "no one wants to play us at the ARC" excuse is getting pretty tired. Other good mids make it happen - so should we.
Agree with wh ... we all understand the challenges faced, but if you have a good team, you do everything possible to put together a decent schedule. Depending on their draw in the Diamond Head Classic, Northern Iowa has put together an excellent non-con slate. They got lucky in getting UNC at home, but even excluding that game, their schedule is very good.
http://unipanthers.com/schedule.aspx?path=mbball (http://unipanthers.com/schedule.aspx?path=mbball)
Quote from: wh on July 08, 2015, 04:12:06 PMNot sure that I understand Oren's thought that we may end up with 1 or 2 non d-1's on the schedule.
2014-15: IU-South Bend, Trinity International, Goshen
2013-14: North Park, Cincinnati Christian
2012-13: Purdue Calumet
2011-12: Holy Cross, IU-Kokomo
2010-11: IU-Northwest, Purdue North Central
2009-10: IU-South Bend, Concordia
2008-09: Marian, North Park
2007-08: Grace, Indiana Wesleyan
"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." -- Albert Einstein
Quote from: valpo64 on July 06, 2015, 11:18:27 AMDon't panic...I think we will be OK on a nice OOC schedule
I saw nothing in the Oren article that greatly calms my nerves so panic time is getting very close. So far I see maybe one top 50 game along with perhaps another 5 top 100. That leaves no margin for error on an at-large bid and gives us very little chance for an 8 or 9 seed that any top 35 team in the country should have a shot at.
Quote from: wh on July 08, 2015, 04:12:06 PMIMO there is no justification for bringing anyone into the ARC other than a D-1. The "no one wants to play us at the ARC" excuse is getting pretty tired. Other good mids make it happen - so should we.
If it is fully true that almost no one of quality will play us (anywhere) and we have to schedule 2 non D-1s just to find 5 OOC home games then maybe we need to document and record all texts, e-mail and phone conversations with rejecting parties towards proving to the NCAA that almost nothing in scheduling remains in our (or any mid majors) control except mediocrity. The NCAA has been a silent accomplice while this scheduling power grab has progressed off the charts (haves vs have nots) and eventually the NCAA may have to reign it back to some reasonable level for the good of the game.
What are the OOC home schedules like for other mid-majors? I looked at Bradley and Drake just to see.
Here is the Bradley home OOC schedule last year:
UT Arlington
Robert Morris
Central Michigan
Eureka
Here is Drake's:
Bowling Green
IUPUI
North Dakota
Jackson State
Simpson
Same kinda deal as what VU has. I agree with Oren that we are headed for 1 and probably 2 home games against non-D1 opponents. If true, can't we at least play some teams that are really good, or at least with whom we have some history? Maybe Wabash, or Augustana (27-5 last year), or Wheaton. Rather see these guys than, for instance, Cincinnati Christian or Purdue North Central.
Paul
ps why don't the mid-majors just fill their OOC home schedules with other mid-majors?
Quote from: 78crusader on July 09, 2015, 07:47:37 AM
What are the OOC home schedules like for other mid-majors? I looked at Bradley and Drake just to see.
Here is the Bradley home OOC schedule last year:
UT Arlington
Robert Morris
Central Michigan
Eureka
Here is Drake's:
Bowling Green
IUPUI
North Dakota
Jackson State
Simpson
Same kinda deal as what VU has. I agree with Oren that we are headed for 1 and probably 2 home games against non-D1 opponents. If true, can't we at least play some teams that are really good, or at least with whom we have some history? Maybe Wabash, or Augustana (27-5 last year), or Wheaton. Rather see these guys than, for instance, Cincinnati Christian or Purdue North Central.
Paul
ps why don't the mid-majors just fill their OOC home schedules with other mid-majors?
I agree with your thoughts on scheduling folks with whom we have some history, kind of like--if we are distended to play a couple of non D1s then why not reinstitute the "Crusader Classic" where we used to bring in three other Lutheran colleges and then whoop up on them so everyone remembered that we were the top of the Lutheran stack! Kinda of kidding here. Still, I agree with Paul that some name recognition might be a little bit helpful. I guess Valpo would be in the same boat as the Bigs when, if they lose to Valpo, they are in a lose/lose situation. If Valpo loses to a very solid D3, we gain nothing and lose a bunch, even when it comes to recruiting. You know, "you lost to who???????"
Quote from: justducky on July 08, 2015, 11:41:33 PMThat leaves no margin for error on an at-large bid and gives us very little chance for an 8 or 9 seed
Rather be a 11-12 seed. Difference in quality of first round opponent (a 5 or 6 seed vs. an 8-9 seed) is pretty insignificant, it's typically a major conference team with 9-10 losses, a team that can be beat. Then the second round opponent (a #3-4 seed) is likely to be much more beatable than the #1 seed that the 8-9 plays in the second round.
Quote from: 78crusader on July 09, 2015, 07:47:37 AMps why don't the mid-majors just fill their OOC home schedules with other mid-majors?
Because the high majors demand to play the vast majority of their games at home. The mid-majors, if they want to play high majors at all (and sometimes to fill their coffers) have to play "guarantee" games and "exempt tournament" games on the high major courts. So every mid-major starts with about 4-5 games on the road. If you fill out your schedule with only home and homes against other mid-majors, you'll effectively play about 4 home and 9 road games a games in non-conference. A lot of coaches, players, fans, and administrators don't want to do that. So to balance it out a bit, you've got to buy a couple games. But mid-majors can't afford to write $90,000 guarantee checks. So you either buy a MEAC or SWAC team or something like that, or you buy a D-II or D-III team. The latter is cheaper, won't hurt your RPI, and is probably no less a draw than a low D-I team (how many fans would know, for example, that Delaware State is D-I and Kentucky State is D-II, that Tennessee Tech is D-I and Indiana Tech is NAIA, or that Presbyterian is D-I and Catholic is D-III?).
Quote from: Pathfinder on July 09, 2015, 10:28:41 AM
Quote from: justducky on July 08, 2015, 11:41:33 PMThat leaves no margin for error on an at-large bid and gives us very little chance for an 8 or 9 seed
Rather be a 11-12 seed. Difference in quality of first round opponent (a 5 or 6 seed vs. an 8-9 seed) is pretty insignificant, it's typically a major conference team with 9-10 losses, a team that can be beat. Then the second round opponent (a #3-4 seed) is likely to be much more beatable than the #1 seed that the 8-9 plays in the second round.
Well argued! I just don't think you should ever cap your ambition and potential for the hope of stumbling to an easier route. If we can play a schedule that might take us to an 8 seed vs one that might only get us to an 11 then I'll take the stronger opponents. Plus- Preparation for tournament atmosphere, pressure, and competition are always factors for success.
I think I first said that we shoot for an 8 or 9 seed (for 15-16) prior to the start of last season and with a good schedule and a couple big wins that seeding ceiling might still be lowered. Somebody correct me if I am wrong but wasn't Murray St a 6 or 7 seed when Butler eventually ended their great run?
Interesting article about Valpo opponent Oregon, "Ticket Sales Soar as Interest in Men's Basketball Improves: better teams and cheaper tickets."
http://oregon.247sports.com/Article/Ticket-Sales-Soar-as-Interest-in-Mens-Basketball-Improves-38120477 (http://oregon.247sports.com/Article/Ticket-Sales-Soar-as-Interest-in-Mens-Basketball-Improves-38120477)
http://www.goldengrizzlies.com/sports/m-baskbl/sched/oakl-m-baskbl-sched.html (http://www.goldengrizzlies.com/sports/m-baskbl/sched/oakl-m-baskbl-sched.html)
Oakland recently dropped their lone non-D1 game and put Georgia on their schedule instead. Also, because Georgia has several Detroit area players on their team, they will be visiting the O'rena next year for a rare road game against a mid-major.
Comparing theirs to ours (so far) in rough descending of quality opponents:
Virginia / Oregon
Michigan St. / Oregon St.
Georgia / Belmont
Washington / Belmont
Colorado St. / Indiana State
Toledo / Missouri State
Obviously, their schedule is quite a bit harder (so far).
Quote from: justducky on July 08, 2015, 11:41:33 PM
Quote from: valpo64 on July 06, 2015, 11:18:27 AMDon't panic...I think we will be OK on a nice OOC schedule
I saw nothing in the Oren article that greatly calms my nerves so panic time is getting very close. So far I see maybe one top 50 game along with perhaps another 5 top 100. That leaves no margin for error on an at-large bid and gives us very little chance for an 8 or 9 seed that any top 35 team in the country should have a shot at.
Quote from: wh on July 08, 2015, 04:12:06 PMIMO there is no justification for bringing anyone into the ARC other than a D-1. The "no one wants to play us at the ARC" excuse is getting pretty tired. Other good mids make it happen - so should we.
If it is fully true that almost no one of quality will play us (anywhere) and we have to schedule 2 non D-1s just to find 5 OOC home games then maybe we need to document and record all texts, e-mail and phone conversations with rejecting parties towards proving to the NCAA that almost nothing in scheduling remains in our (or any mid majors) control except mediocrity. The NCAA has been a silent accomplice while this scheduling power grab has progressed off the charts (haves vs have nots) and eventually the NCAA may have to reign it back to some reasonable level for the good of the game.
Not going to happen. The NCAA has absolutely no power when it comes to the power conferences anymore. These conferences can just go off and form their own collegiate league, rather than submitting to the hundreds of 'have nots.' In this century, we have basically no say in what the power conference teams want to do, and simply need to play along in order to eat at the same table.
Quote from: Pathfinder on July 09, 2015, 10:42:31 AM(how many fans would know, for example, that Delaware State is D-I and Kentucky State is D-II, that Tennessee Tech is D-I and Indiana Tech is NAIA, or that Presbyterian is D-I and Catholic is D-III?).
Found this a little funny, in 2009 I briefly discussed with Luke about getting Indiana Tech on the OOC schedule for the 2009-2010 year. Then all hell broke loose at Tech and that was all she wrote.
Quote from: SanityLost17 on July 09, 2015, 12:17:58 PMOakland recently dropped their lone non-D1 game and put Georgia on their schedule instead. Also, because Georgia has several Detroit area players on their team, they will be visiting the O'rena next year for a rare road game against a mid-major.
Comparing theirs to ours (so far) in rough descending of quality opponents:
Virginia / Oregon
Michigan St. / Oregon St.
Georgia / Belmont
Washington / Belmont
Colorado St. / Indiana State
Toledo / Missouri State
Obviously, their schedule is quite a bit harder (so far).
Given the opportunity I would trade them in a heartbeat.
Unlike some I have no problem with IPFW and weaker Ball St teams sometimes being on our schedule, but this is a year I wish that both could disappear. With the hope that they might return to respectability we seem to have signed Missouri St based mostly on their willingness to come to the ARC but was that a good enough reason? The same goes for UTSA. (How come Oren didn't mention them?) So as much as I wanted Bradley (for Alec) I now hope that it doesn't happen, because we have all the 200+ RPI teams that we need.
OK. I will take a deep breath and try to relax, but keep in mind that we now are positioned for maybe only third or lower for HL OOC strength of schedule. Is that where we wanted to be?
What ever happened with the conference challenge that was floated by Gary Waters and others? Is that still a possibility for this season?
Quote from: aevans12 on July 09, 2015, 02:10:04 PM
What ever happened with the conference challenge that was floated by Gary Waters and others? Is that still a possibility for this season?
Long discussion starting on page 3 of this thread. Doubt it will happen ever.
Quote from: vu72 on July 09, 2015, 02:26:55 PMQuote from: aevans12 on Today at 02:10:04 PM What ever happened with the conference challenge that was floated by Gary Waters and others? Is that still a possibility for this season? Long discussion starting on page 3 of this thread. Doubt it will happen ever.
Definitely not this year because Oakland and Detroit have announced their schedules.
For that Oakland schedule, all of those are road games, except Michigan State which is at the Palace of Auburn Hills ("neutral"). Oakland will be lucky to go 1-5 in those games. While we should at a minimum be 4-2, with a hope of a split out west. Would not trade them for that schedule.
If the non-conference schedule is Oregon, Oregon State, Belmont (twice), Indiana State, Missouri State, Ball State, UTSA and IPFW plus three other low to mid major teams, Valpo will only be able to afford 3 or (at most) 4 losses prior to the conference tournament to make the NCAA tournament without winning the conference tournament. There is just not enough strength of schedule. Furthermore, there is no 'they beat ________' that would make up for the 175 to 200th most difficult schedule.
Quote from: vu84v2 on July 16, 2015, 04:20:59 PMIf the non-conference schedule is Oregon, Oregon State, Belmont (twice), Indiana State, Missouri State, Ball State, UTSA and IPFW plus three other low to mid major teams, Valpo will only be able to afford 3 or (at most) 4 losses prior to the conference tournament to make the NCAA tournament without winning the conference tournament. There is just not enough strength of schedule. Furthermore, there is no 'they beat ________' that would make up for the 175 to 200th most difficult schedule.
I mentioned this elsewhere but I am not certain that a 3 loss regular season coupled with a HL championship game loss to Oakland would guarantee an at large bid. If you play a weak schedule and do not beat any good teams then getting an at large is not and should not be easy. It doesn't mean anything for us to know this should be a top 35 team because we still have the need and responsibility to go out and prove it to the world.
Quote from: valpo84 on July 13, 2015, 10:57:20 AMFor that Oakland schedule, all of those are road games, except Michigan State which is at the Palace of Auburn Hills ("neutral"). Oakland will be lucky to go 1-5 in those games. While we should at a minimum be 4-2, with a hope of a split out west. Would not trade them for that schedule.
Their game with Georgia will be at Oakland so they might go 2-4 with a small chance at 3-3. (This could be their best team ever, by far.) So I would still trade them in a heartbeat because we might be able to do 4-2 against their schedule and thus build our at large bid potential. If ever there were a need for an Oakland like schedule this is the year! If we take a few lumps along the way then so be it. The HL isn't apt to properly prepare us for the post season so we still have some scheduling work to do.
Oakland's game is at Georgia this year, at the O'Rena next year.
Quote from: valpopal on July 09, 2015, 11:47:40 AM
Interesting article about Valpo opponent Oregon, "Ticket Sales Soar as Interest in Men's Basketball Improves: better teams and cheaper tickets."
http://oregon.247sports.com/Article/Ticket-Sales-Soar-as-Interest-in-Mens-Basketball-Improves-38120477 (http://oregon.247sports.com/Article/Ticket-Sales-Soar-as-Interest-in-Mens-Basketball-Improves-38120477)
Ranking the 10 Best 'Small Ball' Lineups in NCAA Basketball for 2015-16
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2521971-ranking-the-10-best-small-ball-lineups-in-ncaa-basketball-for-2015-16/page/5 (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2521971-ranking-the-10-best-small-ball-lineups-in-ncaa-basketball-for-2015-16/page/5)
Quote from: wh on July 19, 2015, 11:51:55 PMRanking the 10 Best 'Small Ball' Lineups in NCAA Basketball for 2015-16 http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2521971-ranking-the-10-best-small-ball-lineups-in-ncaa-basketball-for-2015-16/page/5 (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2521971-ranking-the-10-best-small-ball-lineups-in-ncaa-basketball-for-2015-16/page/5)
So your saying we have a chance.
Quote from: oklahomamick on July 20, 2015, 04:19:11 PM
Quote from: wh on July 19, 2015, 11:51:55 PMRanking the 10 Best 'Small Ball' Lineups in NCAA Basketball for 2015-16 http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2521971-ranking-the-10-best-small-ball-lineups-in-ncaa-basketball-for-2015-16/page/5 (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2521971-ranking-the-10-best-small-ball-lineups-in-ncaa-basketball-for-2015-16/page/5)
So your saying we have a chance.
Actually, Mick, I wasn't trying to make a correlation between their height and our chances. I don't know enough about their talent level to make that judgement. I just thought it's interesting to ponder how far we've come as a program, where we are now in a position to create height/size matchup problems for a Power 5 opponent.
Quote from: oklahomamick on July 20, 2015, 04:19:11 PM
Quote from: wh on July 19, 2015, 11:51:55 PMRanking the 10 Best 'Small Ball' Lineups in NCAA Basketball for 2015-16 http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2521971-ranking-the-10-best-small-ball-lineups-in-ncaa-basketball-for-2015-16/page/5 (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2521971-ranking-the-10-best-small-ball-lineups-in-ncaa-basketball-for-2015-16/page/5)
So your you're saying we have a chance.
There, I fixed it for you and anyone else who confuses the possessive "your" with the contraction "you are."
And while I am on grammar, another thing that irritates me to no end is when people refer to a person and use "that." The correct term to use is "who," not "that." Things, animals and groups of people can be referred to as "that," but a person is a who. For example: "Bryce Drew, the head coach at Valpo, who is famous for 'the shot'......" Not "Bryce Drew, the head coach of Valpo, that is famous for 'the shot'...." I see all these releases from the VU athletic department and quotes from coaches and they continually refer to people as things with the use if 'that.' But, maybe due to a failure to teach good grammar early in schools and the acceptance of misspelled words and poor grammar in emails and texts, this has come to be an acceptable bastardization of the language. Just my opinion.
Quote from: VULB#62 on July 20, 2015, 07:56:08 PM
Quote from: oklahomamick on July 20, 2015, 04:19:11 PM
Quote from: wh on July 19, 2015, 11:51:55 PMRanking the 10 Best 'Small Ball' Lineups in NCAA Basketball for 2015-16 http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2521971-ranking-the-10-best-small-ball-lineups-in-ncaa-basketball-for-2015-16/page/5 (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2521971-ranking-the-10-best-small-ball-lineups-in-ncaa-basketball-for-2015-16/page/5)
So your you're saying we have a chance.
There, I fixed it for you and anyone else who confuses the possessive "your" with the contraction "you are."
And while I am on grammar, another thing that irritates me to no end is when people refer to a person and use "that." The correct term to use is "who," not "that." Things, animals and groups of people can be referred to as "that," but a person is a who. For example: "Bryce Drew, the head coach at Valpo, who is famous for 'the shot'......" Not "Bryce Drew, the head coach of Valpo, that is famous for 'the shot'...." I see all these releases from the VU athletic department and quotes from coaches and they continually refer to people as things with the use if 'that.' But, maybe due to a failure to teach good grammar early in schools and the acceptance of misspelled words and poor grammar in emails and texts, this has come to be an acceptable bastardization of the language. Just my opinion.
Your wrong.
:rotfl: :rotfl:
Love it.
We can add a road game at Rhode Island on Nov. 17.
Quote from: valpopal on July 21, 2015, 01:05:53 PM
We can add a road game at Rhode Island on Nov. 17.
:rant: dang, if I still lived in the Boston area I could have jumped in my car and been at the game in under an hour. Oh, well.
BTW URI is the #7 of the small ball teams that WH posted about earlier. Oregon is #8. (Butler BTW is #6). From BleacherReport:
University of Rhode IslandPG: Jarvis Garrett (6'0")
SG: Jared Terrell (6'3")
SF: E.C. Matthews (6'5")
PF: Kuran Iverson (6'9")
C: Hassan Martin (6'7")
6th Man: Four McGlynn (6'2")
Rhode Island got bigger when it added 6'9" Memphis transfer Kuran Iverson. However, he's much more of an oversized small forward than an undersized center, so don't expect the Rams to suddenly start mowing down the opposition in the paint.
In fact, they may play even smaller than last season, now that they no longer have Gilvydas Biruta. In his senior season, the 6'8" forward was their best offensive rebounder and one of their most efficient offensive weapons.
Now, it's pretty much Hassan Martin or bust in the paint, which is actually more promising than it sounds. The 6'7" center averaged 11.4 points, 7.7 rebounds and 3.1 blocks per game last year. He attempted 7.2 two-point field goals per game and converted on 61.1 percent of them. In a 59-47 win over La Salle in early January, he came one rebound away from recording a triple-double. He was kind of a big deal.
Rather than worrying about Martin's ability to handle himself down low, the bigger unknown for the Rams is whether they'll actually be able to shoot the ball this year. This has been a poor-shooting team for the past six years, but 2014-15 was particularly bad, as Rhode Island shot 30.3 percent from three-point range.
E.C. Matthews, Jared Terrell and Jarvis Garrett were responsible for more than 80 percent of the team's three-point attempts last season, but not one of them converted more than 32.5 percent of the attempts. If one of them gets hot this year, Rhode Island is a tournament team. If all three improve considerably, look out.
Quote from: valpopal on July 21, 2015, 01:05:53 PMWe can add a road game at Rhode Island on Nov. 17.
Looks like a difficult but winnable road game to help prepare us for our Oregon swing. Will we get a chance to welcome the Rams back to the ARC?
Awesome. Rhode Island will have a great W/L record, will be great for our RPI, and will still be a winnable game. This is a great team to have on the schedule.
http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/107690/looking-ahead-rhode-island-rams (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/107690/looking-ahead-rhode-island-rams)
Looks like they are one of the favorites to win the A10, and have arguably the best returning player in the A10.
They may not have the name recognition of an Oregon or Oregon St., but they will probably be just as good.
Any chance our old rivals Southern Utah will make a visit. They play at Butler on 12/22.
Quote from: SanityLost17 on July 22, 2015, 09:34:53 AM
http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/107690/looking-ahead-rhode-island-rams (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/107690/looking-ahead-rhode-island-rams)
Looks like they are one of the favorites to win the A10, and have arguably the best returning player in the A10.
They may not have the name recognition of an Oregon or Oregon St., but they will probably be just as good.
Not a BCS school tho. Give us Tennessee instead.
This game is kind of ironic. We obviously lost to RI in the Sweet 16, giving them most likely their longest run into March (was our longest run as well). RI apparently hasn't been to the tourney since that following year in 1999, and has high hopes of being a Cinderella once again. Valpo has made the tourney in 2 of the last 3 seasons, but wants to have a longer run this year as well. I enjoyed our game in the 1999-2000 season where we beat the Rams at home. Both schools have realistic chances to tick off the Power 5 in March. Seems like we were destined to meet again :).
Quote from: IndyValpo on July 22, 2015, 09:59:53 AMAny chance our old rivals Southern Utah will make a visit. They play at Butler on 12/22.
If last seasons 305 RPI is any indication of their ability then I hope they do not. Butler has a strong enough schedule to allow for them to come to Hinkle but we do not.
A quick comparison of the Rhode Island vs Butler scheduling mentality is the order of the day. One may be a fringe bubble team and looks at us as a big challenge and a great opportunity. The other views us only as a danger that can be avoided by bringing in someone like Southern Utah instead. Very interesting!
There were lots of connections with the 98 URI and Valpo teams. Jim Harrick was coaching URI, Jim Harrick JR was a Valpo ass't coach. JHJr then went to coach with his dad. Valpo had Bryce, who was drafted in the 1st round by Houston. Houston also had another 1st rounder, Cuttino Mobley, who played on 98 URI. BTW, 99 URI team had Lamar Odom, which means it's all connected to the Kardashians.
Quote from: valpo84 on July 23, 2015, 08:52:06 AM
There were lots of connections with the 98 URI and Valpo teams. Jim Harrick was coaching URI, Jim Harrick JR was a Valpo ass't coach. JHJr then went to coach with his dad. Valpo had Bryce, who was drafted in the 1st round by Houston. Houston also had another 1st rounder, Cuttino Mobley, who played on 98 URI. BTW, 99 URI team had Lamar Odom, which means it's all connected to the Kardashians.
At least someone was "Keeping Up"... :lol: :thumbsup:
There's a rumor going around our URI board that your game against us will be at 10 am ET as part of ESPN's 24 hours of college basketball. And as of now we are scheduled to play at Valpo next season.
Sounds good. Hope it is true. Good pub for both URI and Valpo.
Love this matchup. A great early season test against the best team in the A-10 at their place on national TV. OOC scheduling doesn't get much better than this.
Quote from: SanityLost17 on July 09, 2015, 12:17:58 PMVirginia / Oregon
Michigan St. / Oregon St.
Georgia / Belmont
Washington / Belmont
Colorado St. / Indiana State
Toledo / Missouri State
On the Oakland vs VU schedule comparison front the addition of Rhode Island has certainly pushed us closer to parity but we are not there yet. My early take on Indiana St might put them in the 90 to 140 RPI range and Belmont could be what maybe 75 to 125?
Personally I would like to see minimum one additional recognized top 40 opponent (anywhere) plus get another known top 100 talked into coming to the ARC. With that kind of schedule and some key wins we could build a much better case for an at large inclusion. Seeding would also be helped.
This is the year and these are the players. All we need now is the schedule.
Quote from: justducky on August 02, 2015, 05:41:03 PMPersonally I would like to see minimum one additional recognized top 40 opponent (anywhere) plus get another known top 100 talked into coming to the ARC.
Good suggestions on strategies to compel such teams to agree to come to the ARC would, I'm sure, be quite welcome by the AD and the head coach. Ya know, suggestions they may not have thought of yet.
Quote from: StlVUFan on August 02, 2015, 09:50:49 PMGood suggestions on strategies to compel such teams to agree to come to the ARC would, I'm sure, be quite welcome by the AD and the head coach. Ya know, suggestions they may not have thought of yet.
Not sure if they have thought of bribery but with what we pay them they would likely have to ask us for help. Forcing a signature at gunpoint is another strategy that might not have occurred to them and the rule of thumb for that tactic is "The larger the caliber the larger the compliance". :o
I have to wonder if the Vashil cat now being out of the bag might actually help us in our last minute negotiations. Suddenly we have gone from being a top 40 wanna be to being a highly respected team before we ever take the floor.
With the addition of NKU will the HL return to starting conference play in December? If so is there a designated weekend set aside for those games?
I find it interesting that the Valpo athletic site is now advertising season ticket for sale even though the schedule hasn't been released and will be "in the coming weeks". As a result the brochure tantalizes the fans with a schedule that will include Belmont! Nice game, but hardly the thing that will get folks off their butts to run to buy tickets. At least they are recognizing the buzz around this years team and getting the tickets out sooner rather then later.
Putting together some data on our OOC opponents:
(http://i.imgur.com/Dh4bXFl.jpg)
For comparison, Valpo returns 98.46% of their minutes, and 98.82% of their points. I'm presuming that's #1 in all of college basketball.
Quote from: a3uge on August 25, 2015, 10:18:49 AM
Putting together some data on our OOC opponents:
(http://i.imgur.com/Dh4bXFl.jpg)
For comparison, Valpo returns 98.46% of their minutes, and 98.82% of their points. I'm presuming that's #1 in all of college basketball.
If these listed games are official we are now at 18 conference and 10 OOC for 28 total. It would appear that the multi team MTE event we will host at the ARC might be our only loose end? Help me out. Would we be limited to 2 more games if constructed as an exempt tournament or could it grow to 3?
Quote from: justducky on August 26, 2015, 09:13:01 PM
Quote from: a3uge on August 25, 2015, 10:18:49 AM
Putting together some data on our OOC opponents:
(http://i.imgur.com/Dh4bXFl.jpg)
For comparison, Valpo returns 98.46% of their minutes, and 98.82% of their points. I'm presuming that's #1 in all of college basketball.
If these listed games are official we are now at 18 conference and 10 OOC for 28 total. It would appear that the multi team MTE event we will host at the ARC might be our only loose end? Help me out. Would we be limited to 2 more games if constructed as an exempt tournament or could it grow to 3?
Here's the way I see it. The season ticket package is for 16 games. So, at this point we are waiting to hear about 3 more home opponents (presumably the tournament that has been talked about). That would give us 16 home and 15 road games for a total of 31 - exactly the same as last year.
If this is accurate, it also means no exhibition game(s) or non D-1 opponents.
And two are probably D2? So we're looking at one D1 home game vs someone like IUPUI?
IUPUI has a pretty decent schedule, although loaded with road games, but we're not on it.
Quote from: justducky on August 26, 2015, 09:13:01 PM
If these listed games are official we are now at 18 conference and 10 OOC for 28 total. It would appear that the multi team MTE event we will host at the ARC might be our only loose end? Help me out. Would we be limited to 2 more games if constructed as an exempt tournament or could it grow to 3?
The NCAA allows a maximum of a.) 29 regular season games, or b.) 27 regular season games plus up to 4 games in a MTE event.
If the 28 games listed above are solid AND Valpo is hosting a MTE, then one of those games must be part of the MTE (assuming my math skilz are correct). UCF and IPFW are not associated with a MTE yet, so I guess they are both possibilities.
Quote from: zvillehaze on August 27, 2015, 08:41:24 AM
Quote from: justducky on August 26, 2015, 09:13:01 PM
If these listed games are official we are now at 18 conference and 10 OOC for 28 total. It would appear that the multi team MTE event we will host at the ARC might be our only loose end? Help me out. Would we be limited to 2 more games if constructed as an exempt tournament or could it grow to 3?
The NCAA allows a maximum of a.) 29 regular season games, or b.) 27 regular season games plus up to 4 games in a MTE event.
If the 28 games listed above are solid AND Valpo is hosting a MTE, then one of those games must be part of the MTE (assuming my math skilz are correct). UCF and IPFW are not associated with a MTE yet, so I guess they are both possibilities.
I just uncovered one more possibility. I read that Oregon State was finalizing a 5-team MTE that they would host. Valpo could be part of that MTE, where 4 teams would each play at OSU, then convene at Valpo to complete the remainder of the games. Similar to when Valpo played at Nebraska a few years back, then hosted Chicago State, Bethune Cookman and Neb-Omaha in the "Valpo Sub-Region" of the MTE. Just a thought.
Quote from: zvillehaze on August 27, 2015, 09:18:07 AMI just uncovered one more possibility. I read that Oregon State was finalizing a 5-team MTE that they would host. Valpo could be part of that MTE, where 4 teams would each play at OSU, then convene at Valpo to complete the remainder of the games. Similar to when Valpo played at Nebraska a few years back, then hosted Chicago State, Bethune Cookman and Neb-Omaha in the "Valpo Sub-Region" of the MTE.
Any hopes I had for some additional quality games just took a nosedive. Cal Fullerton and Loyola Marymount will both play at OSU and are not listed in an exempt tournament so they might be candidates? Both were very weak last year.
But---I am way overdue for some kind of pleasant surprise so I will just relax and see how the cards fall. We should get the full story soon.
This tells me that we are struggling to close out our schedule. Are multiple non D-1 home games in our future?
[tweet]638054415975493632[/tweet]
Quote from: wh on September 01, 2015, 07:34:41 PMThis tells me that we are struggling to close out our schedule. Are multiple non D-1 home games in our future? [tweet]638054415975493632[/tweet]
No. You've got 10 definite games scheduled assuming Belmont is H&H this year. You'll probably schedule 1 non-DI game at home to round out the schedule (you get 11 non-conference games since you are not in an exempt tournament). That you haven't announce the schedule suggest that you are still trying to get a DI opponent. So it's 1 non-DI at most. Assuming Belmont.
http://udtitanbasketball.freeforums.net/post/3977/thread (http://udtitanbasketball.freeforums.net/post/3977/thread)
You can't blame other NCAA teams from being scared ;). You bring back an entire team that lost to Maryland by 3 (who is a pre-season #1 candidate), and add more quality players. Big schools run!
Quote from: valpotx on September 02, 2015, 12:13:45 PM
You can't blame other NCAA teams from being scared ;). You bring back an entire team that lost to Maryland by 3 (who is a pre-season #1 candidate), and add more quality players. Big schools run!
Sure I can. It's weak and timid.
I wish I already had an OOC schedule but this MTE must be holding the whole thing up. Looks like maybe 90 D-1 schools not yet placed in exempt tournaments so many various options may yet be open but should be closing fast.
As followup to an Iona game rumor I checked into their board to see what I could find. No confirmation but they are one of those 90, have been talking of an unknown Indiana destination swing, and also had UCF on and now off their schedule. Add this together and I would think they are part of the MTE field but who knows? With the way these exempt tournaments are now cobbled together any rational discussion on who, when, and where all of these games may be played is a waste of time but if Iona is in (and I suspect they are) I am somewhat more optimistic about the rest of the field. Perhaps we will not have any of those D-2 or D-3 games we were afraid of.
Quote from: justducky on September 06, 2015, 02:17:20 PMI am somewhat more optimistic about the rest of the field. Perhaps we will not have any of those D-2 or D-3 games we were afraid of.
So Joel Osteen-like. ;D
Conference schedule is now online.
Quote from: a3uge on August 25, 2015, 10:18:49 AM
Putting together some data on our OOC opponents:
(http://i.imgur.com/Dh4bXFl.jpg)
For comparison, Valpo returns 98.46% of their minutes, and 98.82% of their points. I'm presuming that's #1 in all of college basketball.
Valpo doesn't appear to be on UCF's schedule. http://www.ucfknights.com/sports/m-baskbl/sched/ucf-m-baskbl-sched.html (http://www.ucfknights.com/sports/m-baskbl/sched/ucf-m-baskbl-sched.html)
Quote from: zvillehaze on September 08, 2015, 01:30:00 PM
Quote from: a3uge on August 25, 2015, 10:18:49 AM
Putting together some data on our OOC opponents:
(http://i.imgur.com/Dh4bXFl.jpg)
For comparison, Valpo returns 98.46% of their minutes, and 98.82% of their points. I'm presuming that's #1 in all of college basketball.
Valpo doesn't appear to be on UCF's schedule. http://www.ucfknights.com/sports/m-baskbl/sched/ucf-m-baskbl-sched.html (http://www.ucfknights.com/sports/m-baskbl/sched/ucf-m-baskbl-sched.html)
Well that's good to hear.
Can't find the post, but I believe someone reported it :?
Quote from: StlVUFan on September 02, 2015, 07:49:46 PM
Quote from: valpotx on September 02, 2015, 12:13:45 PM
You can't blame other NCAA teams from being scared ;). You bring back an entire team that lost to Maryland by 3 (who is a pre-season #1 candidate), and add more quality players. Big schools run!
Sure I can. It's weak and timid.
Looks to me that UCF chose the weak and timid route. They have a 29 game schedule and appear to have decided against an exempt tournament participation that could have issued them some severe lumps. Our OOC schedule is already better than theirs and might improve even more.
Oh well. We already knew nobody wanted to play us.
It is truly embarrassing to DePaul and Northwestern that they will not play Valpo. The last time they played was the 79-80 season. Truly unbelievable.
Quote from: usc4valpo on September 08, 2015, 07:20:06 PM
It is truly embarrassing to DePaul and Northwestern that they will not play Valpo. The last time they played was the 79-80 season. Truly unbelievable.
I'd rather not play two teams that are pretty much guaranteed to finish below .500. Other than "pride", not much upside.
Quote from: a3uge on September 08, 2015, 10:49:10 PM
Quote from: usc4valpo on September 08, 2015, 07:20:06 PM
It is truly embarrassing to DePaul and Northwestern that they will not play Valpo. The last time they played was the 79-80 season. Truly unbelievable.
I'd rather not play two teams that are pretty much guaranteed to finish below .500. Other than "pride", not much upside.
DePaul should host a double header - Valpo against DePaul and Northwestern against Loyola. Get all of these teams some time on local/Midwestern TV and local news, and a chance for our Chicago based alumni to attend a game. We could also leave out DePaul, rent the AllState Arena and include Marquette - two local teams and two teams with many alumni in the Chicagoland area.
Quote from: a3uge on September 08, 2015, 10:49:10 PM
Quote from: usc4valpo on September 08, 2015, 07:20:06 PM
It is truly embarrassing to DePaul and Northwestern that they will not play Valpo. The last time they played was the 79-80 season. Truly unbelievable.
I'd rather not play two teams that are pretty much guaranteed to finish below .500. Other than "pride", not much upside.
In Philadelphia there is such a thing as the Big 5: Villanova (Big East), Penn (Ivy), St. Joseph and LaSalle (A-10) and Temple (AAC).
Here's a snip from their website. http://www.philadelphiabig5.org/about/index.html (http://www.philadelphiabig5.org/about/index.html)
The official announcement of the formation of the Big 5 was made by University of Pennsylvania president Dr. Gaylord Harnwell at Penn's Houston Hall on November 23, 1954.The Big 5 was touted as a chance for Philadelphia to present the best basketball it had to offer with the schools sharing the profits evenly after Penn was paid for the Palestra's upkeep. The formation of the Big 5 was conceived by Penn athletic director Jerry Ford. Penn sports information director Bob Paul and the Quaker's business manager John Rossiter worked to put the round-robin format together. The other athletic directors who worked together to form the Big 5 were LaSalle's Jim Henry, St. Joseph's George Bertelsman, Temple's Josh Cody and Villanova's Ambrose (Bud) Dudley. Little did these men know that the Big 5 would become college basketball's most storied tradition and unique rivalry.
For more than three decades, Philadelphia Big 5 — LaSalle, Pennsylvania, St. Joseph's, Temple and Villanova — waged college basketball's biggest, most envied, unique, and frenetic, intracity rivalry. No other city in the nation ever had as many major universities competing so feverishly for such a coveted title as did the City of Brotherly Love.
The Big 5 was housed at the Palestra, a venerable red brick building on the campus of the University of Pennsylvania. That building hosted more fans at more games over more seasons than any other college arena in history. This musty, high-ceilinged, 75-year-old arena is still regarded by many people as the best basketball facility in the country.They are still going strong. Here's the 2014-15 results
Tue. Nov. 25: Temple 76, Penn 67 (Liacouras Center)
Wed. Dec. 3: Saint Joseph's 58, Temple 56 (Hagan Arena)
Wed. Dec. 3: Villanova 84, La Salle 70 (Tom Gola Arena)
Sat. Dec. 6: Villanova 74, Saint Joseph's 46 (The Pavilion)
Sat. Dec. 6: Temple 58, La Salle 57 (The Palestra)
Sun. Dec. 14: Villanova 85, Temple 62 (The Pavilion)
Tue. Dec. 30: La Salle 84, Penn 67 (Tom Gola Arena)
Sat. Jan. 17: Villanova 62, Penn 47 (The Palestra)
Sat. Jan. 24: Penn 56, Saint Joseph's 52 (The Palestra)
Tue. Jan. 27: La Salle 53, Saint Joseph's 48 (Tom Gola Arena)
The Big-5 helped to make college basketball thrive in Philly. Maybe something like that could work in Chicago? There is a similar situation in the Chicago area with Loyola (MVC), NU (B1G), DePaul (Big East) and Valpo and UIC (Horizon). Traditions have to start sometime. It just takes 5 ADs who can think a bit more broadly than just their own programs. If it works all teams benefit and Chicago area players would stay closer to home.
Quote from: wh on September 01, 2015, 07:34:41 PMThis tells me that we are struggling to close out our schedule. Are multiple non D-1 home games in our future?
Most schedules have been released and many fewer candidates for MTE are still open.
I can imagine frantic last minute activity in an attempt to accomplish the task.
I would disagree with you on that comment. Games like that draw local fans and interest. The game also brings in Chicagoland Valpo alums, more so than many of the teams they are facing this year. I think players would enjoy those matchups. It would be a win-win for all in the long term. Home and home games should be scheduled - the problem is Northwestern and most particularly DePaul have overinflated and unrealistic egos with their athletics.
Quote from: usc4valpo on September 09, 2015, 08:36:57 PM
I would disagree with you on that comment. Games like that draw local fans and interest. The game also brings in Chicagoland Valpo alums, more so than many of the teams they are facing this year. I think players would enjoy those matchups. It would be a win-win for all in the long term. Home and home games should be scheduled - the problem is Northwestern and most particularly DePaul have overinflated and unrealistic egos with their athletics.
And most likely would lose a game with Valpo this year. If they signed up for more than one year, they might lose more games to us. Very little upside for them. As a basketball fan, I think it would be great for the Chicagoland area.
Iona is now on the Oregon State schedule and that is almost a total confirmation that they are in our MTE. UC Santa Barbara looks like another potential member of that field. Anybody hear any rumors about them?
Quote from: justducky on September 10, 2015, 09:16:59 PM
Iona is now on the Oregon State schedule and that is almost a total confirmation that they are in our MTE. UC Santa Barbara looks like another potential member of that field. Anybody hear any rumors about them?
The Oregon State schedule has 29 games, which is the max without any MTE games. Reading between the lines, they aren't part of any MTE this year.
Quote from: zvillehaze on September 10, 2015, 10:03:41 PMThe Oregon State schedule has 29 games, which is the max without any MTE games. Reading between the lines, they aren't part of any MTE this year.
So if the OSU end of it didn't come together is it a safe bet that we will not be hosting any part of an exempt tournament?
If so you can see the vicious circle. We need to host in order to get in line for a spot in a neutral site tournament next year but UCF drops out, nobody wants to come to the ARC, so now are we back at square one?
Quote from: justducky on September 10, 2015, 10:40:32 PMQuote from: zvillehaze on September 10, 2015, 10:03:41 PMThe Oregon State schedule has 29 games, which is the max without any MTE games. Reading between the lines, they aren't part of any MTE this year.
So if the OSU end of it didn't come together is it a safe bet that we will not be hosting any part of an exempt tournament? If so you can see the vicious circle. We need to host in order to get in line for a spot in a neutral site tournament next year but UCF drops out, nobody wants to come to the ARC, so now are we back at square one?
Couldn't we just pay a team to come?
oklahomamick, are you ponying up the money to rent the United Center for a game against Notre Dame or Kentucky? I mean when Valpo pays a team to come in, we get IUSB or Purdue-Cal, not a mid-major or high major team.
No time to link but Iona fills UCF gap on 15'th. Much other speculation. Go to Iona pro boards for additional detail.
I like the idea of making up for that awful CIT game against Iona...all that aside I think they fit our quality mid major opponent goal quite well.
It's official we're playing Iona at the ARC and they also have a game in Corvallis in November. Both are listed as being part of the "Hardwood Classic" so looks like we have our Tourney.
http://www.icgaels.com/SportSelect.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=14900&SPID=7099&SPSID=64319 (http://www.icgaels.com/SportSelect.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=14900&SPID=7099&SPSID=64319)
Iona plays at Rhode Island as well. Could a season tipoff marathon game count in an exempt tourney as well?
Quote from: Kyle321n on September 14, 2015, 01:22:04 PM
It's official we're playing Iona at the ARC and they also have a game in Corvallis in November. Both are listed as being part of the "Hardwood Classic" so looks like we have our Tourney.
http://www.icgaels.com/SportSelect.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=14900&SPID=7099&SPSID=64319 (http://www.icgaels.com/SportSelect.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=14900&SPID=7099&SPSID=64319)
I suspect what we have is an exempt tournament attempt that fell short. Looks to me that Oregon State and Valpo were in from the start, Iona was soon on board, and UCF went deep into the negotiations. I hope we get the full story soon.
Oregon / Oregon St. / Rhode Island / Iona / Belmont / Belmont
Looks like 6 games against teams that could/should be in the top 75 for RPI. I guess Belmont might be a stretch...not really sure what they return? Either way, I will take it! Now we just have to play well!
How about a home and home with Wofford? jj/setshot would like that game.
Why not a series with Wagner? Mid-major, semi-Lutheran, NYC, previous home of Jay Harris, great view of New York harbor and the Narrows Bridge. Then pick up Iona as well on that trip for a return game in New Rochelle -- home of Rob Pettrie (Dick VD and Mary Tyler Moore for the younger posters) and, for 4 years, VULB#62. Next year we should beat both in a New York minute :lol:
So when will the schedule be released?
Quote from: ValpoFan on September 14, 2015, 10:31:19 PMSo when will the schedule be released?
We seem to be stuck on 28 games.
Wait! Maybe College Of Faith also has a basketball team!
Quote from: justducky on September 15, 2015, 12:32:19 AMWait! Maybe College Of Faith also has a basketball team!
http://www.gofaithwarriors.com/basketball.html (http://www.gofaithwarriors.com/basketball.html)
Quote from: SanityLost17 on September 14, 2015, 06:00:18 PM
Oregon / Oregon St. / Rhode Island / Iona / Belmont / Belmont
Looks like 6 games against teams that could/should be in the top 75 for RPI. I guess Belmont might be a stretch...not really sure what they return? Either way, I will take it! Now we just have to play well!
Just to wet your appetites College Sports Madness- Men's Basketball Top 144 Previews is now down to #60 with Oregon, Oregon St, and Rhode Island yet to be ranked. Of interest to us they have UWM at#136, Indiana St at#101, Oakland at#92, Belmont at #90, VU at #67, and Iona at #63. Why don't one of you smart young fellows go over and link that? ???
Quote from: justducky on September 15, 2015, 03:44:31 PM
Why don't one of you smart young fellows go over and link that? ???
You can't copy and paste the URL at the top of your browser?
here ya go sports fans:
http://www.collegesportsmadness.com/mens-basketball/top-144-previews (http://www.collegesportsmadness.com/mens-basketball/top-144-previews)
I am probably a little more of a realist / pragmatist than others on this website, but I think that this Valpo team looks like a top 40 team in the country. #67 is just too low.
I see a lot of Big 12 basketball. With all of the talent returning plus Bryce's good coaching, my opinion is that this Valpo team would hyopthetically win between 9 and 11 games (inclusively) in the Big 12 (out of 18 games). A team like that would probably be in the top 30 in the country.
I'm all for flying under the radar as much as possible. Like many, I'm a little concerned about the high expectations and the target on our team's back if we are widely believed to be a top 30 team. I guess it's good that I'm not the one on the court! Anxiously awaiting the release of the schedule and seeing what this group can do against some solid opponents!
Quote from: vu84v2 on September 15, 2015, 04:59:42 PMI am probably a little more of a realist / pragmatist than others on this website, but I think that this Valpo team looks like a top 40 team in the country. #67 is just too low.
I think we'll be in the top 40. But to start the season I'd say that #67 is OK, when using previous season rankings/ratings. We need to win games to show that we are top 40, but this is the team that could do it!
Looks like Belmont will bookend our December with games on 12/3 @ Valpo and 12/28 @ Belmont. Looking at the Bruins schedule, they too have major issues scheduling home games: a rousing schedule of Western Kentucky, Lipscomb, and Ouachita Baptist...oh and Valparaiso. http://www.belmontbruins.com/sports/m-baskbl/2015-16/schedule (http://www.belmontbruins.com/sports/m-baskbl/2015-16/schedule)
At Ball St Nov 28. Trip to Indiana St still unknown.
Somebody dropped a west coast name months ago that still looks like a theoretical possibility. Don't want to create another jinx like I did with UCF, so for the record that particular name has escaped my memory. Might just be wishful thinking anyway.
Just FYI, game @ Indiana State slated for December 9, per ISU official schedule page.
Damn we can basically figure out the schedule from other team's releases. It sure would be nice to finish this up, get a couple 150 RPI games in the ARC and then close this out.
Sun, Nov 15 vs. Iona
Tue, Nov 17 @Rhode Island
Sun, Nov 22 @Oregon
Tue, Nov 24 @Oregon State
Sat, Nov 28 @Ball State
Thu, Dec 3 vs. Belmont
Wed, Dec 9 @Indiana State
Sat, Dec 19 vs. Missouri State
Mon, Dec 28 @Belmont
Conference schedule starts January 2
That's 27 games right now. We'll probably get a home game between Belmont and ISU and 2 games between ISU and Mizzou St. and one game between Mizzou St. and Belmont. That would be 31 games. There's room I suppose between Rhode Island and Oregon and Ball St. and Belmont, but those aren't long breaks between games. We've got to get at least 1 game before Iona to get to 33 games like last season.
Quote from: Kyle321n on September 18, 2015, 09:17:06 AM
FRI, Nov 13 vs. IPFW Thought everyone knew about that one, but I was obviously mistaken
Sun, Nov 15 vs. Iona
Tue, Nov 17 @Rhode Island
Sun, Nov 22 @Oregon
Tue, Nov 24 @Oregon State
Sat, Nov 28 @Ball State
Thu, Dec 3 vs. Belmont
Wed, Dec 9 @Indiana State
Sat, Dec 19 vs. Missouri State
Mon, Dec 28 @Belmont
Conference schedule starts January 2
I forgot about the IPFW game. Thanks! So that's 4 home non-con games and 9 conference games. The flyer they sent out for season tickets said something about 16 home games, so there needs to be 3 more. Oh look at that, enough room for 3 non-D1 games!
Quote from: Kyle321n on September 18, 2015, 09:55:57 AM
I forgot about the IPFW game. Thanks! So that's 4 home non-con games and 9 conference games. The flyer they sent out for season tickets said something about 16 home games, so there needs to be 3 more. Oh look at that, enough room for 3 non-D1 games!
Please, no college of faith!!!!
Blog post from the NWI Times:
http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/inside-vu-sports/unofficial-valparaiso-men-s-basketball---schedule/article_3aeac856-5e26-11e5-bd52-8305e81f9d20.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/inside-vu-sports/unofficial-valparaiso-men-s-basketball---schedule/article_3aeac856-5e26-11e5-bd52-8305e81f9d20.html)
@ Chicago State.
Oof.
Quote from: covufan on September 18, 2015, 10:48:07 AM
Quote from: Kyle321n on September 18, 2015, 09:55:57 AM
I forgot about the IPFW game. Thanks! So that's 4 home non-con games and 9 conference games. The flyer they sent out for season tickets said something about 16 home games, so there needs to be 3 more. Oh look at that, enough room for 3 non-D1 games!
Please, no college of faith!!!!
Nope, no college of faith - just IU-Kokomo, Trinity Christian and Chicago State. >:(
First blush at the games we didn't know of.
-Chicago St, well there's an RPI drain. They might have 3 OOC wins and will be lucky to have 1 before we play them.
-Wed., Nov. 18 vs. IU-Kokomo and Thur., Nov. 19 vs. Trinity Christian
We couldn't spread out these games any? I mean we could sit our starting 5 for the whole game and win, but we will have played in Rhode Island at 9 am the day before and are traveling out to Oregon on the 22nd, and those are our biggest non-con games this season. It's not like these schools were holding us to the fire by saying "oh no we can't play these games you're paying us to play in December" right? Arrrgh!
-They went to the NFL school of scheduling and are counting the "exhibition" against D2 UIndy as a home game for the season ticket holders. Well done.
Quote from: Kyle321n on September 18, 2015, 01:46:04 PM-They went to the NFL school of scheduling and are counting the "exhibition" against D2 UIndy as a home game for the season ticket holders. Well done.
My :twocents:
If you paid for a season ticket package, you shouldn't be charged for the UIndy, Kokomo, and Trinity games. In fact, I think the season ticket holders should receive double or triple the amount of their normal tickets for these games - give them away and fill a few extra seats.
I'm sure it was difficult to schedule for this season, especially once the rumors of Vashil returning were out there. Even if we pulled a page out of the Oakland scheduling guide, we might have to take a reduced fee to go into a major's home arena. I'm also sure that there were schools willing to play us, but their schedules and ours did not align.
It's true that having multiple non D1 opponents on the home schedule is disappointing for season ticket holders. These games are poorly attended and the atmosphere is better suited for the Christopher Center than the ARC. In fairness the fact that the scheduling process dragged on as long as it did is probably a good indicator that a significant effort was made to bring in better opponents, but we just couldn't make it happen.
On balance I think the OOC D-1 schedule is better than we've had in recent memory. We have several quality opponents with good reputations and name recognition. We've got a lot to look forward to. Time to get happy again. :)
The 2015-16 schedule is now official.
http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/news/2015-16/14868/crusaders-announce-2015-16-schedule/#.VgLXCrS4ko8 (http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/news/2015-16/14868/crusaders-announce-2015-16-schedule/#.VgLXCrS4ko8)
Hope the players and coaches have their Frequent Flyer programs up to date.
Great to see that they're making a trip to the Pacific Northwest to play the Ducks and the Beavers. Are any fans making a trip to Eugene or Corvallis for either of these two games?
Can't recall a time when a VU BB team flew to both coasts and played 5 games all within 7 days. We will certainly see what this team is made of right from the get go.
In case anyone wanted to download the schedule for their calendar here is a link to the iCAL file which will load in Outlook, Google Calendar and whatever Apple devices use.
https://www.google.com/calendar/ical/tcsv0ao2lh890uf6j2u3oqako4%40group.calendar.google.com/public/basic.ics (https://www.google.com/calendar/ical/tcsv0ao2lh890uf6j2u3oqako4%40group.calendar.google.com/public/basic.ics)
Just realized that Will Phipps is no longer listed as a coach. Very nice person, sorry to see him go. He is now the Executive Director of the Greater Waco Sports Commission. Guess he wanted to get back to Texas.
Quote from: vu72 on September 23, 2015, 01:09:37 PM
Just realized that Will Phipps is no longer listed as a coach. Very nice person, sorry to see him go. He is now the Executive Director of the Greater Waco Sports Commission. Guess he wanted to get back to Texas.
And no Director of Basketball Operations listed, yet.
What are the guesses for the next Director of Basketball Operations?
Quote from: covufan on September 23, 2015, 03:24:40 PM
Quote from: vu72 on September 23, 2015, 01:09:37 PM
Just realized that Will Phipps is no longer listed as a coach. Very nice person, sorry to see him go. He is now the Executive Director of the Greater Waco Sports Commission. Guess he wanted to get back to Texas.
And no Director of Basketball Operations listed, yet.
What are the guesses for the next Director of Basketball Operations?
Vacent in 2015-16, Vashil in 16-17
Lets see....Keep in mind that 30 second shot clock = faster paced games...
7 games in 12 days to start the season...4 of which will be really hard games to win...Plenty of travel time mixed in. Doesn't sound like a recipe for success to me.
Tough game against Iona followed by losing an hour in the trip to Rhode Island and having to play at 9am Eastern.
After all that we get 2 games against nobodies and then have to jump on a plane to the west coast. Not much time to practice or do any scouting.
Prediction: We start the season 2-3 against D1 opponents. A couple of weeks ago I would have said the exact opposite, but after seeing our crammed together schedule, I am not optimistic.
Quote from: SanityLost17 on September 23, 2015, 06:18:35 PM
Lets see....Keep in mind that 30 second shot clock = faster paced games...
7 games in 12 days to start the season...4 of which will be really hard games to win...Plenty of travel time mixed in. Doesn't sound like a recipe for success to me.
Tough game against Iona followed by losing an hour in the trip to Rhode Island and having to play at 9am Eastern.
After all that we get 2 games against nobodies and then have to jump on a plane to the west coast. Not much time to practice or do any scouting.
Prediction: We start the season 2-3 against D1 opponents. A couple of weeks ago I would have said the exact opposite, but after seeing our crammed together schedule, I am not optimistic.
At least I doubt we will be playing a 7 or 8 man rotation.
The final schedule filler games still have me completely bummed. I thought we could find at least one more game that had some importance.
So
Quote from: a3uge on September 18, 2015, 01:19:01 PM
@ Chicago State.
Oof.
Why not? If they played us here nobody would come anyway so lets head to Chicago spot them the 6 point home advantage and hope they can make it competitive.
Quote from: SanityLost17 on September 23, 2015, 06:18:35 PMTough game against Iona followed by losing an hour in the trip to Rhode Island and having to play at 9am Eastern.
After all that we get 2 games against nobodies and then have to jump on a plane to the west coast. Not much time to practice or do any scouting.
If there is any concern about fatigue or classwork a coach could almost randomly assign 3 or 4 players to skip the Wed game and pick a different 3 or 4 to miss the Thursday contest (assuming we are 14 players strong). Not trying to belittle any opponent but I would rather see 9 guys playing hard than 14 guys sleepwalking.
Rhode Island, Oregon St, Indiana St, and both Belmont contests are weekdays. We seem to have a lot of OOC open weekend nights.
Has it occurred to anybody else that we might have no game with Oregon if it wasn't for the coincidence that Scott and Baylor pay them a visit just a few days earlier? Might he have helped enable our visit?
How is the Lexus rehab going and will Shane be playing against Iona?
Quote from: vu72 on September 23, 2015, 01:09:37 PM
Just realized that Will Phipps is no longer listed as a coach. Very nice person, sorry to see him go. He is now the Executive Director of the Greater Waco Sports Commission. Guess he wanted to get back to Texas.
They all come back ;)
Quote from: VULB#62 on September 23, 2015, 12:28:04 PM
Can't recall a time when a VU BB team flew to both coasts and played 5 games all within 7 days. We will certainly see what this team is made of right from the get go.
A week before December arrives we should already have a good idea of our highest seed and at large potential. Much of the suspense will have been removed a full month before we even think about our HL opponents. As a group Iona, Rhode Island, Oregon, Oregon St and VU all have considerable returning talent and all should be able to hit the ground running at full strength.
What a stretch of challenges!
Quote from: a3uge on September 18, 2015, 01:19:01 PM@ Chicago State. Oof.
The best way of looking at it is to think that if the Crusaders play well enough to be ranked, at least they'll be playing in Chicago, which could be beneficial exposure. If they don't, then playing against Chicago State would be less of an affront.
Just picked up a copy of Lindy's College Basketball prediction magazine. Here is what they think about our opponents:
Team Conference/Division Place First Team All Conference Players
IPFW 4-9 None
Iona 1st AJ English POY & Shadrac Casimir
Rhode Island 2nd EC Matthews POY
Oregon 5-12 None
Oregon State 6-12 Gary Patton II
Ball State Last in Division None
Belmont 1st in Division Craig Bradshaw POY& Evan Bradds
Indiana State 6-10 None
Missouri State 7-10 None
Here is what they think about Valpo:
1st, Alec Peters POY , Vashil Fernandez 1st Team, Darian Walker 2nd Team
Quote from: justducky on September 24, 2015, 12:54:08 AMHow is the Lexus rehab going and will Shane be playing against Iona?
Yeah, do we know what our injury list looks like these days?
Re: Shane. I believe it's a 2 game suspension and I would think the exhibition vs. Indianapolis doesn't count. Iona is the second game :censored: If that's the case he comes back for URI.
Quote from: agibson on September 24, 2015, 02:31:09 PMYeah, do we know what our injury list looks like these days?
[tweet]647204955586170880[/tweet]
[tweet]647204992672251904[/tweet]
[tweet]647205622862249984[/tweet]
[tweet]647205781398536192[/tweet]
I'd seen E. Vic in the cast, but didn't want to say anything. I was somehow hoping it was _very_ minor!
On the road again...
(http://i57.tinypic.com/cojls.jpg)
Quote from: agibson on September 24, 2015, 09:39:39 PM
I'd seen E. Vic in the cast, but didn't want to say anything. I was somehow hoping it was _very_ minor!