The Valparaiso Beacons Fan Zone Forum

Green Bay it is.

Seems like chalk is the order of the tournament so far. Apart from making it hard for Wright State to get above RPI 150, I suppose that suits Valpo just fine.

Word from the beat writers is that Tevonn is at less than 50%, or at less than 50-50 odds to play tomorrow, depending on who you read. E Vic likely to take his starting spot.

Skara's apparently practiced, at least a little. Sounds like it'll be a game day decision how many minutes he plays.

Despite out-rebounding us at the Resch Center, Green Bay was out-rebounded by Milwaukee by seven. And that despite Milwaukee shooting an abysmal 30.5%/22.6% (Green Bay was 41.3%/27.3%, 6 for 22 from three; off their season averages of 49.3%/34.4%).

Green Bay did record 12 steals.

I believe GB had only 7 turnovers in the game.  That may be the most important stat tomorrow night; can we force more turnovers than we make, especially if Tevonn is not ready to play or play at near 100 percent.  We're going to need all hands on deck after edging them last week.

Yes taking care of the ball will be an objective tomorrow night.  I vote for Keith and max to bring the ball up. 

If T Walker and Skara either can't play or can't play effectively this could be a tough game. Hope Green Bay is gassed from having to play back to back to back. Unless we can win this game easily and rest some our starters at the end, not having T Walker and Skara will make playing Oakland in the final even tougher assuming they win their semi.

Quote from: nkvu on March 06, 2016, 06:29:59 PM
If T Walker and Skara either can't play or can't play effectively this could be a tough game. Hope Green Bay is gassed from having to play back to back to back. Unless we can win this game easily and rest some our starters at the end, not having T Walker and Skara will make playing Oakland in the final even tougher assuming they win their semi.

I think Wright State is going to beat Oakland.  In fact, based on what I saw the last few days, if Tevonn/Skara are out for the rest of this tournament, we could be in a lot of trouble.  Wright State just looks pissed, all the time.  I don't want to play them.  I am glad they are on the other side of the bracket.   

Everyone is shooting poor % from the field right now in the Joe Louis.  That favors Valpo/Wright State and Wright State knows how to beat us. 

Valpo opens as 9 point favorites over Green Bay.
Oakland opens as 4 point favorites over Wright State.

My two cents are simple: Valpo defeated Green Bay in Green Bay without Skara and with minimal time from Walker. Green Bay is tired after a physical game today and other than turnovers/steals GB is a decent matchup for us. I am bit nervous on this game but I think that it is more that this game is not at home and we will have 3 hostile fan bases going against us rather than being nervous for having a mental slip up and losing to GB. But you have to play and win this game to advance and there is no room for error...

I say play 8 with Max Joseph and have Skara and T. Walker as rested as possible for the final, if they can be available.

Driving up to Detroit tomorrow! I'll be one of the loud ones in 122! Go Valpo!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

Also, is there a team that we prefer to win the Oakland/Wright State game?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

Quote from: HailVU2014 on March 06, 2016, 08:26:44 PMMy two cents are simple: Valpo defeated Green Bay in Green Bay without Skara and with minimal time from Walker.

I forgot that Skara didn't play (he's been out a while!).  So, indeed, maybe nothing "new" here except the Joe Louis environment (I'm getting nervous at this point - wondering if Darner has a point that getting two games to test out the environment is an advantage; of course, you have to win those games!). Maybe better to have the experience against Green Bay without Tevonn, rather than try to go at Milwaukee again, with a key player missing... hard to say. I've been pretty confident about this team for most of the season - was easy to get used to double digit wins, etc. I'm finding that considerably more difficult after close games to end the season, and with a trip to the NIT as the booby prize!

Quote
Also, is there a team that we prefer to win the Oakland/Wright State game?

It's a good question. I really don't know which team we'd be better off with. Maybe I'll try to be brave and stick to my gut feeling after the second Wright State loss: both Wright State games were much better to watch, much more exciting, seemed like better basketball, than our other style of "outrebound them by 20, win by 15" type game. A final like our last Wright State game would be memorable, for sure, worthy of a tournament final, and payback would be sweet.

Hopefully this is just gamesmanship from the coaching staff and Tevo and Skara are ready to go. I'm not so concerned about tomorrow, unless we get in foul trouble, but if Oakland gets by WSU it should would be nice to have a full squad ready to go.

Quote from: HC on March 06, 2016, 08:53:38 PMHopefully this is just gamesmanship from the coaching staff and Tevo and Skara are ready to go.

This would be delightful. I'll admit to trying to decipher blurry athletes in twitter photos (Smits in uniform?).

Quote from: HailVU2014 on March 06, 2016, 08:27:37 PM
Also, is there a team that we prefer to win the Oakland/Wright State game?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

Personnaly I would prefer Wright State playing their fourth game in four days to playing Oakland in Detroit missing two of our contributors. And I don't care if that causes our rpi to take a hit. Right now all I care about is getting into the dance not what seed we are. (And if we drop a third game to these guys we don't deserve to be in the dance!)

Quote from: HailVU2014 on March 06, 2016, 08:26:44 PMValpo opens as 9 point favorites over Green Bay. Oakland opens as 4 point favorites over Wright State. My two cents are simple: Valpo defeated Green Bay in Green Bay without Skara and with minimal time from Walker. Green Bay is tired after a physical game today and other than turnovers/steals GB is a decent matchup for us. I am bit nervous on this game but I think that it is more that this game is not at home and we will have 3 hostile fan bases going against us rather than being nervous for having a mental slip up and losing to GB. But you have to play and win this game to advance and there is no room for error... I say play 8 with Max Joseph and have Skara and T. Walker as rested as possible for the final, if they can be available. Driving up to Detroit tomorrow! I'll be one of the loud ones in 122! Go Valpo! Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

Safe travels! I'll be in 121 wearing black and gold. Looking forward to catching your game before Oakland/Wright State, and I hope you have a good crowd for it. Would love to see a lot of casual fans not affiliated with any of the four schools show up to check it out. Looked like a decent number of casual fans showed up today, and hopefully a bunch of them will come back tomorrow and Tuesday.

Also remember last year when Tevonn was doubtful for the HL final, but came out of the locker room for warmups and gave us 12(?) quality minutes. Don't know if we'll see that this year or not, but he's a tough kid.

Quote from: nkvu on March 06, 2016, 09:09:04 PM

Quote from: HailVU2014 on March 06, 2016, 08:27:37 PM
Also, is there a team that we prefer to win the Oakland/Wright State game?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

Personnaly I would prefer Wright State playing their fourth game in four days to playing Oakland in Detroit missing two of our contributors. And I don't care if that causes our rpi to take a hit. Right now all I care about is getting into the dance not what seed we are. (And if we drop a third game to these guys we don't deserve to be in the dance!)

Until I read your post I've been thinking Oakland. Now I'm with you about WSU. Either you're very pursuasive or I'm easily influenced.  ;)

Quote from: nkvu on March 06, 2016, 09:09:04 PMPersonnaly I would prefer Wright State playing their fourth game in four days to playing Oakland in Detroit missing two of our contributors. And I don't care if that causes our rpi to take a hit. Right now all I care about is getting into the dance not what seed we are. (And if we drop a third game to these guys we don't deserve to be in the dance!)

I would prefer a chance at revenge to an easier route so let it be WSU.

Quote from: hailcrusaders on March 06, 2016, 10:51:20 PMAlso remember last year when Tevonn was doubtful for the HL final, but came out of the locker room for warmups and gave us 12(?) quality minutes. Don't know if we'll see that this year or not, but he's a tough kid.

My memory was more like 4 minutes of being useless but maybe I have the wrong game in mind.

Quote from: HC on March 06, 2016, 08:53:38 PM
Hopefully this is just gamesmanship from the coaching staff and Tevo and Skara are ready to go. I'm not so concerned about tomorrow, unless we get in foul trouble, but if Oakland gets by WSU it should would be nice to have a full squad ready to go.

I hope you are right on gamesmanship.  Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part, but I have to admit at least with respect to Skara, the first thing that came to mind was that this was a case of classic cat and mouse Homer Drewism on pre game injuries.  I think we tried that against Butler a few years ago with someone (can't remember the player) and Brad Stevens didn't buy it.  I doubt UWGB will either.  Hope to see both guys on the floor but I'd be more surprised about Skara.  I really hope you are right.

Here is Paul's leadin article to tonight's game.

http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/basketball/college/valparaiso-set-to-take-on-green-bay-in-horizon-semis/article_8a5051d5-49d0-5615-9f94-da5af4ac036a.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/basketball/college/valparaiso-set-to-take-on-green-bay-in-horizon-semis/article_8a5051d5-49d0-5615-9f94-da5af4ac036a.html)

Tevonn hobbling up the stairs at the Joe and saying he was 50% was the big take-away for me  :(

Quote from: justducky on March 06, 2016, 11:38:47 PM

Quote from: hailcrusaders on March 06, 2016, 10:51:20 PMAlso remember last year when Tevonn was doubtful for the HL final, but came out of the locker room for warmups and gave us 12(?) quality minutes. Don't know if we'll see that this year or not, but he's a tough kid.

My memory was more like 4 minutes of being useless but maybe I have the wrong game in mind.

Yeah, Tevonn played 4 minutes and had 1 rebound. That was it.  You might be thinking of the NCAA game where he put in 31 really quality minutes.

UWGB has some motivated seniors looking for some post season success, look out. This will be a hard game look for the seven Who have carried the load in the last few to get the majority of the time with David, Travon and Max if they can go get a little time. VU 74 UWGB 67
Bring on WSU lets settle this score.  ;D

Green Bay sets the pace early, but their legs (and the Valpo defense) don't allow them to stay in the game.

Valpo   81
GB       67

What I'd kind of like to see is Green Bay come out and try to set the tone. RP40 will work in the regular season, but when it's the 3rd game in 3 days and they really haven't had a chance to do active rest, since they were in a dog fight in both games.

KenPom has us at 78-70 winners with a 79% chance of winning.
Warren Nolan has us winning by 8.5 with a 68% chance of winning.

Personally I think this game goes double digits in the middle of the second half and then we take our foot off the gas again, causing panic here, and the resulting score is closer than the game actually was. Oh and Alec gets his 20-12 in a very quiet fashion.

Saw a picture that posted on Facebook by the athletics department...I'm not sure how to post it here...but it looks like Tevonn and Skara are both on the court.  Tevonn in a red pullover and Skara is in the gold. https://www.facebook.com/ValpoBasketball/?fref=nf (https://www.facebook.com/ValpoBasketball/?fref=nf)  Here is the link to their page.

Talksalot sighting on ESPNU.

I just cracked up when they showed the Valpo crowd!  I swear they went to the local senior center and offered free tickets complete with a Valpo sweatshirt!!  Lots of takers!!   :lol:

Down 35-32 at the half.  :(

Brutal final 4 minutes. Need to keep pressing after they overcommit on offensive rebounds.

Yet another bad first half.  What's with the terrible free throw shooting?  Alec is not having his best defensive or offensive game.  Continued poor shooting.  Too many missed layups, etc.  We are not making a strong case for an at-large bid, so let's hope we pull it out. 

What's with Fouse?  Never seen him score like this.  I believe we will see an entirely different second half...and it's about time to show why we are top dog in the HL!!

Green Bay took Valpo out of their offense on the perimeter and then sagged big time to take away the inside game. Need adjustments and more ball movement on offense.

Fouse is Jordan Aaroning Valpo.

Quote from: atkins on March 07, 2016, 07:02:17 PM
Yet another bad first half.  What's with the terrible free throw shooting?  Alec is not having his best defensive or offensive game.  Continued poor shooting.  Too many missed layups, etc.  We are not making a strong case for an at-large bid, so let's hope we pull it out. 

Our comparatively large rotation has been a double-edged sword for us. It's made it difficult for others to defend because anyone can score, but it often makes it difficult to get into an offensive flow, as well. Green Bay is confident offensively and has the huge advantage of being acclimated to the environment. I have my doubts about our perimeter game coming to the rescue tonight. At this point, we have to hope we establish something inside and that Green Bay gets tired.

4/14 3pt FGs vas GBs 10/18 tells the tail so far. Why are we not pounding it inside?

Green Bay is very well coached and when they hit 57 percent from 3 they are be difficult for anyone to beat.  Actually they look more comfortable having played the past two nights than we do with more than a week off.

What a freaking joke

I don't know who was worse in this game between Bryce's lack of defensive adjustments, E Victor thinking that he is a jump shooter, to Darien Walker's inability to do anything.  What a big disappointment that this team will be going to the NIT.  The Horizon League got what they wanted in having someone other than Valpo representing the conference in the tourney, and it will be a joke to see which team that is.

Geez, I have never seen such a crappy transition from Junior to Senior year, as we have seen from Darien this season.  He had a good stretch during the HL season of maybe 6 games, but was otherwise abysmal for us this season. 

Lack of a true point guard hurt us in ot. Have to give Green Bay credit. They hit the shots, got the rebounds and made the free throws they had to. They played with more poise and deserved to win. Sad end to what was a realistic shot at doing some damage in the dance.

Giving up 99 points. Great defense guys....

tx, give GB credit, they are outplaying and outhustling Valpo. What a disappointment, and blaming it on the neutral site is a lame excuse. Sad.

Pretty simple.  Our great defensive team gives up 99 in the loss. Fernandez disappears.  On to the NIT.

Unbelievable.

No blaming this on a neutral site. We were outplayed, outhustled, and outcoached. I blame four games against RPI #296 and #347 for costing us an at large. Rooting for Oak here on out.

I think that I'm too tired to be angry...certainly a letdown...Fouse and Love were just possessed and not going to lose to Valpo again...GB really played well and hit huge shot after huge shot...great effort from Alec...what an ending to regulation...missed Carter big time in OT...team used up its energy on the first comeback...momentum from having two games to "practice" in a different arena?  March madness begins and that's a two-edged sword when you have a target on your back and an opponent looking for revenge. 

There is no reason to blame the neutral site, though many of us will and should, but this game was pretty hard to fathom. Did anybody but Peters even look like they wanted to play the last ten minutes? Adekoya with a boneheaded three attempt near the end of regulation, careless turnovers by Nickerson and sloppiness by Hammink. Also, what in the world was up with Green Bay's shooting? They couldn't miss from the three, so why weren't we actually guarding the 3 point line instead of daring them to shoot. Unbelievable. I am sick to my stomach.

I am rooting for Billy Donlan, a fine North Shore Central Suburban League product,  and Wright State.

Not having T Walker to defend Green Bay's guards was a big factor. They penetrated at will leaving way to many wide open looks from 3 which was the difference in the game. I think he could have cut that back enough for us to win.

Green Bay was the better team on a neutral court.  I think we will see them in the Big Dance.  They deserve it. 

Peters is one tough ballplayer, but as a whole, Valpo really needs to work on physical and mental toughness. Once again, we lacked a killer instinct.  As this game illustrated, mere height and weight do not get the job done.

As was said in the ESPN studio, Valpo is done.  If I were a member of the NCAA selection team, I would have seen little tonight to warrant Valpo's at-large selection.  I would vote for Wichita State and Monmouth.  Both of them also lost, but they are better teams at this point in the season.

Quote from: usc4valpo on March 07, 2016, 08:38:29 PM
tx, give GB credit, they are outplaying and outhustling Valpo. What a disappointment, and blaming it on the neutral site is a lame excuse. Sad.

I didn't blame it on the neutral court, I was just implying that you could have pretty much given the bid to Valpo if it was still on our home court, with this team.  Therefore, the HL got what they wanted, in that no one had home court advantage.  Don't assume the intent of someone's post as anything more than the words they use...

Oren on Twitter: "Valparaiso doesn't lose this game if it's at the ARC."


Best part of the television coverage was when they showed scenes from last year's championship at the ARC. The tremendous difference in atmosphere was evident for everyone watching. I hope the Horizon League is happy!

Quote from: valpotx on March 07, 2016, 08:23:43 PM
The Horizon League got what they wanted in having someone other than Valpo representing the conference in the tourney, and it will be a joke to see which team that is.

I think it's time to stop pretending that we're some special darling that deserves anything other than what we get.  The reality is that we are NOT head and shoulders better than the rest of the Horizon league.  It's not like we've been dominating and now suddenly the carpet is getting pulled out from under us.  In the last three weeks we've lost to Wright State at home, squeaked by Oakland by two points at home, were tied with UWM at the end of regulation, and squeaked by Green Bay by two points.  A loss to Green Bay tonight shouldn't be some great surprise -- and it certainly could have happened in the ARC.  We've played like nothing more than a garden-variety upper-tier-of-a-weak-conference team since mid-February.

Lousy job by Bryce down the stretch, IMO.  Had the horses for something great.  Playing at the same level as Wright State, Oakland, UWM, and Green Bay in the end is FAR from something great.

Iona beat Monmouth twice and we beat Iona so I wouldn't say Monmouth is a much better choice than we would be and Wichita State's resume is weaker than either of us.  But, we didn't get the job done so we may have to pay the price.  If those of you at the game, taped it to watch later.  Stop watching prior to the cut to the talking heads in the studio after the game.  Once again people haven't done their homework, replying instead of what they read and hear others say.  Sorta of like saying if it's on the internet, it's true!  Despite the fact that Tevonn didn't have as much success the second time through the conference as he did earlier, it's clear we need him.

Oren may be right but GB was the better team tonight. You have to play wherever and prove you are the best, which Valpo did not. Valpo's defense was certainly lacking and Vashil was not much of a factor tonight. What a disappointment and the SI jinx strikes again.

Quote from: usc4valpo on March 07, 2016, 08:53:37 PM
Oren may be right but GB was the better team tonight. You have to play wherever and prove you are the best, which Valpo did not. Valpo's defense was certainly lacking and Vashil was not much of a factor tonight. What a disappointment and the SI jinx strikes again.

What a lame excuse to blame the SI jinx...sad.  Oh wait, I should have read that differently??

Again, no problem with the neutral court, just the way the move was done.

I am getting so drunk tonight.  >:(

Just brutal. Green Bay played amazing, we didn't. Going to be hard to watch the NIT.

I am being sarcastic tx. Valpo blew it period. I wonder how this game effects Bryce's stock as a coach.

CBS's Jerry Palm: "Hard to say what might have happened, but Horizon taking home court away from top seed may help keep best team out."

Say whatever you want but you are wrong if you think this is not bad for the horizon league.    Welcome 14 or 15 seed.

Go Valpo!

Thank you, as some of you get what I was hinting around.  When you are a one bid conference, why would you make this an immediate decision when you have a team that can legitimately beat someone in the NCAA tourney?  Of course the other ADs would outvote Valpo, as they knew that they wouldn't win the regular season, and wouldn't win the tourney on our court this season.  The attendance doesn't look like it will be any higher than it would have been under the previous format.  The other HL teams do not travel well, so if Oakland is not in the championship, you are going to have a sad showing on national TV with GB vs. Wright State, and the 500 fans in attendance.

IDK, there is a lot of hype for Felder. But this has to be one of the worst moments in Valpo hoops history. Worse than Rob Harden's one finger salute in 1984.

There's lots to say about woulda coulda shoulda, but this team came backed and willed itself to OT. It then was down 10 in OT and still had chances down the stretch. It's disappointing and we needed to win this game, but there was never a lack of effort in those 45 minutes. UWGB had one of those nights that we couldn't overcome.  This team deserves an at large but CBB is about that. We at least deserve a chance in Dayton again at Wichita State!  That is a game that deserves to be played.

ok, so what will it take for Valpo to make the tournamment? I understand there is a remote chance.

I think a USC loss to UCLA may help.

Don't want to come across as an absolute ass, but if your team couldn't win a neutral site league tournament game to Green Bay, were they really going to be successful in the NCAA Tournament?? I don't know many people who like the new format, so don't act as if only Valpo was affected.

Not going to happen.  You can't lose to Ball State, Wright State twice, and in the semi-final of the 20th ranked conference in regards to RPI.  If we were still a top 15 conference in RPI, I think that we would have a chance, as our RPI/SOS would be better.  The debate now should be what seed will we be given in the NIT?  Do we get a crappy seed, since we are from a mid-major, or do we get the #1/#2 seed in a region, since we will be one of the first few teams outside of the NCAA tourney?

I REALLY want GB and Wright state in the final... It is not right for Oakland to have home court advantage.

Go Valpo!

Quote from: valpotx on March 07, 2016, 09:03:09 PM
when you have a team that can legitimately beat someone in the NCAA tourney?

I don't get it, why* can Valpo beat teams in the NCAA tourney but other teams can't?  Over the past few weeks, haven't we have played right at the same level as Wright St, UWM, UWGB, and Oakland?  Just look at the recent games we've played!  I know we thought we were an amazing super team this season that would outshine the rest of the league, but right now we're no better than the other top teams in the conference -- which means, not very good in the big picture.

*Seeding, I guess.  But the spirit of the original comment was, "we're good enough to play with the big boys, unlike these other teams".  There's been no evidence lately that we're capable of playing with big boys ... we settled right down to the level of Wright St, UWM, UWGB, and Oakland when all was said and done.  No better.

Quote from: Goraiders93 on March 07, 2016, 09:12:40 PM
Don't want to come across as an absolute ass, but if your team couldn't win a neutral site league tournament game to Green Bay, were they really going to be successful in the NCAA Tournament?? I don't know many people who like the new format, so don't act as if only Valpo was affected.

Yes, you can look to last season when we lost to a top Maryland team by 3.  We won the league by 3 games, it wasn't even close.  Don't come on here acting like you didn't mean to be a d*ck, when you know that is why you came on here in the first place. 

Quote from: usc4valpo on March 07, 2016, 08:57:24 PMI am being sarcastic tx. Valpo blew it period. I wonder how this game effects Bryce's stock as a coach.

I don't think this was one of Bryce's better games, and it could be among his worst, but Bryce can only do so much....The guys on the court have to bring home the bacon, and they were not up to the challenge tonight.

Quote from: Goraiders93 on March 07, 2016, 09:12:40 PM
Don't want to come across as an absolute ass, but if your team couldn't win a neutral site league tournament game to Green Bay, were they really going to be successful in the NCAA Tournament?? I don't know many people who like the new format, so don't act as if only Valpo was affected.

Have you ever seen basketball before?

I view and have posted here before so that's inaccurate, just curious as to what the general perceptions would be; some are grounded and sensible, most are all emotion.

If Oregon State beats Oregon for the Pac 12 tournament title, would Valpo look better as an at-large?

Great regular season for your team, hopefully the league can tweak and improve the tournament after this year.

Nothing but the best for Valpo in the postseason.

"Fouse, Cooper & Love"

Tonight, it's like the name of the law firm that your ex-wife hired for divorce proceedings and you just found out that not only does she get half but she also gets the dog and you've got to pay 5K a month to her in alimony for the next 20 years even though she makes more than you do.

Hell of a job by UWGB.  They would have beaten Valpo anywhere.  I hope they win this thing.

Relax tx, this sucks bad but be nice.  ;)

I don't think the Raider guy meant any harm. He had a valid point.

We don't have any chance in hell of getting an at-large.  We have one quality win.  Monmouth (several wins against Power 5 teams) and Wichita State would get in over us, if we are the three being discussed.  Our non-conference SOS was fantastic, but our overall SOS is crap due to the conference this year.  Our RPI will probably end up in the mid/upper 40s, and that won't be good enough. 

I thought it would be a challenge to win without Tevonn tonight. The decline in our offense since his injury and his subsequently dubious return have been obvious. Our offense was good when he was able to penetrate and finish but inconsistent when absent. I thought we might find a new offensive flow tonight when E. Victor challenged and scored on his first two attempts. The third possession after that I saw the team pass the ball like a hot potato, completely unable to capitalize on the attention that E. Victor had drawn, and I had a sense it was going to be a loooong game.

I think we thought we should win because we've been without key players in the past and won. But the reality is that Valpo was able to win those games because the competition was relatively weak. Now, unfortunately, it was peaking and it wasn't so easy. In the end, I think the NCAA Tournament competition would have been easier because members of your own conference don't fear you nor do they generally find any great shame in losing such that it will cause them to choke.

Quote from: VUOR63 on March 07, 2016, 09:21:15 PM
If Oregon State beats Oregon for the Pac 12 tournament title, would Valpo look better as an at-large?

There was a slim chance with a championship game loss, but not now. Wichita State losing, Monmouth losing - just not good.

I didn't attack him, I just pointed out what I perceived as a fallacy in his statement.  In my view, you don't come to our forum after this loss, unless it is to soak in our tears.  I was just pointing out what seemed obvious, that you don't make a comment like that, unless you want to rub it in. 

Quote from: rink on March 07, 2016, 09:16:38 PM

Quote from: valpotx on March 07, 2016, 09:03:09 PMwhen you have a team that can legitimately beat someone in the NCAA tourney?

I don't get it, why* can Valpo beat teams in the NCAA tourney but other teams can't?  Over the past few weeks, haven't we have played right at the same level as Wright St, UWM, UWGB, and Oakland?  Just look at the recent games we've played!  I know we thought we were an amazing super team this season that would outshine the rest of the league, but right now we're no better than the other top teams in the conference -- which means, not very good in the big picture. *Seeding, I guess.  But the spirit of the original comment was, "we're good enough to play with the big boys, unlike these other teams".  There's been no evidence lately that we're capable of playing with big boys ... we settled right down to the level of Wright St, UWM, UWGB, and Oakland when all was said and done.  No better.

Aside from WSU, we beat all of those teams in their own house. There will be a half-dozen at-larges in the NCAA tournament who wouldn't have beat all three of them on the road.

sorry, but the NIT is a huge letdown. It's like winning a plastic participation trophy at a dance competition.

Quote from: valpotx on March 07, 2016, 09:14:19 PMThe debate now should be what seed will we be given in the NIT?  Do we get a crappy seed, since we are from a mid-major, or do we get the #1/#2 seed in a region, since we will be one of the first few teams outside of the NCAA tourney?

We deserve a high seed, but we won't win the NIT.  There will be too many major conference teams that can, and will, easily blow us off the court if we have one of our all-too-common slow starts and miss a bunch of first-half free throws.  Remember, as good as we were, we would not even have been in the top half of the B1G.  Plus, we arguably peaked in December.

This has been a very strange year compared to last year.  Last year the team got better as the season went on. Once Carter came back from the toe injury the rotation was pretty much set and everybody knew their roles. This year the team started out great but became unsettled particularly at the 3 slot with first D Walker starting and not getting the job done, then Skara starting and not getting the job done followed by Shane/E Victor with both seeming to be trying to play point at the same time as Carter.  It was pretty clear that by the second time through the league other teams had figured out how to score on us while our offense seemed disjointed at times.  Factor in injuries to Skara and then the even more significant one to T Walker and you end up with a team that seemed to have lost it's identity at conference tournament time, the worst possible moment. Hence the loss tonight.

Quote from: atkins on March 07, 2016, 09:35:39 PM

Quote from: valpotx on March 07, 2016, 09:14:19 PMThe debate now should be what seed will we be given in the NIT?  Do we get a crappy seed, since we are from a mid-major, or do we get the #1/#2 seed in a region, since we will be one of the first few teams outside of the NCAA tourney?

We deserve a high seed, but we won't win the NIT.  There will be too many major conference teams that can, and will, easily blow us off the court if we have one of our all-too-common slow starts and miss a bunch of first-half free throws. Remember, as good as we were, we would not even have been in the top half of the B1G.  Plus, we arguably peaked in December.

Lol, you're so ridiculous. SO RIDICULOUS.

Quote from: a3uge on March 07, 2016, 09:39:04 PM

Quote from: atkins on March 07, 2016, 09:35:39 PM

Quote from: valpotx on March 07, 2016, 09:14:19 PMThe debate now should be what seed will we be given in the NIT?  Do we get a crappy seed, since we are from a mid-major, or do we get the #1/#2 seed in a region, since we will be one of the first few teams outside of the NCAA tourney?

We deserve a high seed, but we won't win the NIT.  There will be too many major conference teams that can, and will, easily blow us off the court if we have one of our all-too-common slow starts and miss a bunch of first-half free throws. Remember, as good as we were, we would not even have been in the top half of the B1G.  Plus, we arguably peaked in December.

Lol, you're so ridiculous. SO RIDICULOUS.

I think we'd be a middle-of-the-pack Big Ten team. We peaked earlier in the year, but some of our January performances would have been good enough to handle several Big Ten teams on the road.

Valpo would also be a middle of the pack Pac 12 team. and a bottom third in the Big 12

I didn't listen to Todd but was there something wrong with D Walker as well? He was out for a long stretch and at no time looked to be himself. With no Tevonn, David looking to be 85%, we needed help from Darien. Was he sick?


If EVN had a usable wrist his senior season could have been so much different. He showed flashes tonight but when you can't control your own dribble  ???

Jubrils 3 point attempt (from the corner) had a much higher probability of going in than 3 of Alec's and 2 of Darien's shots.Keeping yourself out of a hole is much easier than digging out of one.
Any team that can uncork 13-27 or whatever they were from 3 is going to be hard to stop.

Never was much of a double bye fan. Sitting for 8 or 9 days carries its drawbacks.

What is this obsession with placing us in power conference jerseys and simulating a season? 

When Valpo joined the Horizon League it was seen as a step up from the Summit League. Also, we were again in a conference with in-state Butler with all the excitement and intensity those games would have each year. It was nice to play nearby Loyola in the Chicago market as well. In addition, the conference tournament format offered an opportunity to show off the atmosphere at Valpo games in the ARC, which would provide excellent public relations for the university and help attract recruits.


This year, instead of the first-place team being rewarded as in the past, the second-place team received the home-court advantage, and if Oakland doesn't make the finals, two distant teams will play on ESPN for the championship in front of a mostly empty arena, and I would love to see that happen. The Horizon League once even had the potential to be more than a one-bid conference, but Valpo's RPI was brought down most times it played conference teams, which removes possibility of an at-large bid.


LeCrone just spun everything in an interview, saying he was pleased with everything, including the upset of Valpo, because that shows the strength of the league. I hope he feels that way when the Horizon League's only NCAA representative receives a 14 seed. He also twisted his logic on television by saying the reason for moving to the neutral site was because the Horizon League was "known for being different," and this move proved it. 



All of those original reasons for Valpo being in the league are gone. Unfortunately, it won't happen for a while, but the sooner Valpo moves elsewhere, the better.

Quote from: justducky on March 07, 2016, 09:46:01 PMAny team that can uncork 13-27 or whatever they were from 3 is going to be hard to stop.

12 of 22 for 54.5 % vs our 9 of 27. Other than being shorthanded that was the decisive game difference.

Quote from: a3uge on March 07, 2016, 09:50:10 PMWhat is this obsession with placing us in power conference jerseys and simulating a season?

Asking ourselves if we're more or less worthy than some high-majors who will make the Dance. Obviously a pipe dream, not like we're joining the Big Ten anytime soon, but it's easy to complain about how life isn't fair when you're pissed off.

]

Quote from: a3uge on March 07, 2016, 09:50:10 PMWhat is this obsession with placing us in power conference jerseys and simulating a season?

Because we need to punch above our weight class in order to schedule decent ooc games and enhance revenue.  Power conferences get the respect and money that mid-majors don't.  Just ask Butler...They bolted to a power conference as soon as they could. 

We dominated this league in 18 games.  Only a few teams have won this league by 3 games.  We set new records for the HL.  Dominated the  season, did not in tournament game. 

I always thought that Butler fans were morons for the things that they said about LeCrone, but those statements make me think that they weren't too far off lol.  I must have still been wearing my HL-colored glasses, since we were finally out of the Mid-Con.

I was at the game tonight and I will first say, the venue is horrendous. The "Joe" had its place in hockey lore but for a team that plays in "Hockeytown" they let that arena fade. Seats are probably as old as the arena (1979), paint coming off rails and a floor that is old school theatre sticky. As the game started there were maybe 1500 fans if that. In a 20K arena for b-ball that sure makes the place look cavernous. Second, I am thinking they started giving away tickets to anyone walking by or near the JLA. About half way through the game multiple throngs of people are coming, have no idea where the sitting and just stand right in front of you as play is going on. You ask them can you move a little bit and you swear you just insulted their mother. Lastly, I am not a big fan of the double bye either and especially on a neutral court. UWGB played outstanding but we were playing in an arena not used for hoops at all except for the tournament so no one has any idea to sight lines, etc. Then you play a team that has just won consecutive games on this court. They do have an advantage. And I never bought the "fatigue" argument. you are 18-22 years old, you got mucho energy and add momentum to the equation, you got gas in your tank. At the end of the day we should've won, made an amazing comeback but lost in the end.

As for the game, difference I saw was UWGB was lights out in spurts in both the 1 and 2H from 3. They beat us, the fresher team, to more 50/50 balls which screams of desire more than anything. Not sure if the team just thought Peters would bail them out again or what but there was definite lack of intensity. Another BIG factor was UWGB shot 53 FTs I believe to our 32. I have not been impressed w/ the Horizon League officials at all this year and tonight was no exception. They'd let some physical play go for a stretch then call some ticky tack stuff. The call on Carter on the loose ball w/ like 3 to go was a joke. The screen on Adekoya in OT was an even bigger joke. I saw the whole thing right on and the UWGB kid a bad acting job and still sold it in OT no less. The only way you call anything is if it egregious enough. Peters hit the 3 and we would've been up 1 or 2 at that point and instead went down 5. Also, Adekoya's shot in the waning was not bad at all. He actually had a good look and the ball was in the cylinder rattling around and bounced out. A skoch softer and it's in and ball game is totally different.

Anyway, good season. Drew didn't help his cause for a better gig tonight, if he was looking to upgrade so that may be a blessing. I guess the frustrating part is this team was poised this year to possibly make a decent run in the tourney. Losing in the semis all but burst that bubble.

Quote from: valpopal on March 07, 2016, 09:50:34 PM
When Valpo joined the Horizon League it was seen as a step up from the Summit League. Also, we were again in a conference with in-state Butler with all the excitement and intensity those games would have each year. It was nice to play nearby Loyola in the Chicago market as well. In addition, the conference tournament format offered an opportunity to show off the atmosphere at Valpo games in the ARC, which would provide excellent public relations for the university and help attract recruits.

This year, instead of the first-place team being rewarded as in the past, the second-place team received the home-court advantage, and if Oakland doesn't make the finals, two distant teams will play on ESPN for the championship in front of a mostly empty arena, and I would love to see that happen. The Horizon League once even had the potential to be more than a one-bid conference, but Valpo's RPI was brought down most times it played conference teams, which removes possibility of an at-large bid.

LeCrone just spun everything in an interview, saying he was pleased with everything, including the upset of Valpo, because that shows the strength of the league. I hope he feels that way when the Horizon League's only NCAA representative receives a 14 seed. He also twisted his logic on television by saying the reason for moving to the neutral site was because the Horizon League was "known for being different," and this move proved it. 

All of those original reasons for Valpo being in the league are gone. Unfortunately, it won't happen for a while, but the sooner Valpo moves elsewhere, the better.

So, back aways, we were left in the dust by a bunch of present HL schools who bailed on the Mid-Con ( and Valpo's many runs to the title) leaving Valpo to stew for a few years. Then we get a invite to the HL (yippee!) but it's not the same HL it used to be, and we start to dominate the MBB championships just like we did in the Mid-Con. So the league (including the teams that bailed on us back in the Mid-Con days) kind of unilaterally changes the format to a "neutral" site in Detroit. In the first year of the revamped tournament, Valpo, the regular season champ and the team with the best RPI and SOS and the best chance to get a respectable NCAA seeding as a HL representative is upset. And the HL commissioner cites this as a great thing for the league. Ahhhh....... Don't you get the odd feeling that Valpo is not really welcome in this league and maybe never was?

WSU wins! That double bye advantage has got to be illegalized. :thumbsup:

So it's Wright State v Green Bay in the final before maybe what 500 fans unless they give out tickets for free to whoever happens by the Joe?  No best team. No POY. At best a 15 seed in the dance with little to no chance to actually win a game?  Serves the Horizon league right.

Quote from: VULB#62 on March 07, 2016, 10:58:43 PM

Quote from: valpopal on March 07, 2016, 09:50:34 PM
When Valpo joined the Horizon League it was seen as a step up from the Summit League. Also, we were again in a conference with in-state Butler with all the excitement and intensity those games would have each year. It was nice to play nearby Loyola in the Chicago market as well. In addition, the conference tournament format offered an opportunity to show off the atmosphere at Valpo games in the ARC, which would provide excellent public relations for the university and help attract recruits.

This year, instead of the first-place team being rewarded as in the past, the second-place team received the home-court advantage, and if Oakland doesn't make the finals, two distant teams will play on ESPN for the championship in front of a mostly empty arena, and I would love to see that happen. The Horizon League once even had the potential to be more than a one-bid conference, but Valpo's RPI was brought down most times it played conference teams, which removes possibility of an at-large bid.

LeCrone just spun everything in an interview, saying he was pleased with everything, including the upset of Valpo, because that shows the strength of the league. I hope he feels that way when the Horizon League's only NCAA representative receives a 14 seed. He also twisted his logic on television by saying the reason for moving to the neutral site was because the Horizon League was "known for being different," and this move proved it. 

All of those original reasons for Valpo being in the league are gone. Unfortunately, it won't happen for a while, but the sooner Valpo moves elsewhere, the better.

So, back aways, we were left in the dust by a bunch of present HL schools who bailed on the Mid-Con ( and Valpo's many runs to the title) leaving Valpo to stew for a few years. Then we get a invite to the HL (yippee!) but it's not the same HL it used to be, and we start to dominate the MBB championships just like we did in the Mid-Con. So the league (including the teams that bailed on us back in the Mid-Con days) kind of unilaterally changes the format to a "neutral" site in Detroit. In the first year of the revamped tournament, Valpo, the regular season champ and the team with the best RPI and SOS and the best chance to get a respectable NCAA seeding as a HL representative is upset. And the HL commissioner cites this as a great thing for the league. Ahhhh....... Don't you get the odd feeling that Valpo is not really welcome in this league and maybe never was?

100% right. Excellent post.

Quote from: nkvu on March 07, 2016, 11:07:50 PM
So it's Wright State v Green Bay in the final before maybe what 500 fans unless they give out tickets for free to whoever happens by the Joe?  No best team. No POY. At best a 15 seed in the dance with little to no chance to actually win a game?  Serves the Horizon league right.

Exactly! 

Geez, this will be a sad atmosphere for the championship game.  I respect Donlon and Darner, but these are not the best teams in the HL playing for the bid, and both would struggle in the NCAA tourney.

Big fat "I told you so" to the Horizon League.

I never was a fan of the double bye and you just saw why. Its just like I commented last summer. The home court advantage is the biggest factor and the double bye can be too much of a good thing.

As for March Madness these two teams have peaked at the best time and I wish them luck.

Congrats to WSU and GB. They both played great basketball tonight. The fact that they played as well as they did in their 3rd game in 3 nights against good teams with fresh legs is a real head shaker. Very impressive!

What a joke. ...   If the league gets a one game and out 15 seed and they don't admit this year's tournament was a failure then they do not understand how this all works. ...   

Also, I will watch the final on ESPN but it will probably look like a joke compared to if it was at a home team site with a sold out venue.

(Maybe everyone should be vocal on the horizon league Facebook page after the first round of the ncaa - I hope we do well but it will be an even larger up hill battle as a 15 seed.  Maybe wright state will get some credit for beating us twice. )

Go Valpo!

I would imagine the game gets flexed to espn2...

It is a sign of progress that the #3 and #4 seed are playing for the bid!!  Never mind the conference RPI ranking of 20, and the pending 15 seed that we will get.  I look forward to that packed house that Detroit will bring, since it can bring all fans together ::)

Can't wait to see all those empty seats on tv for the final. Great promo for the league. Imagine the sound people will have fun dealing with the echoes of an empty arena. Will be a challenge for the camera to find shots that make it seem that there is a crowd.

Quote from: Smj on March 07, 2016, 11:28:03 PMMaybe wright state will get some credit for beating us twice. )

Watching how much we struggled without Tevonn I wonder if I would have even considered them a favorite against WSU. Several of our poorest played games have been associated with his absence. I think we had one loss this year when we had the 9 healthy bodies.

hate to see it.  Vashil and Alec are once in a decade players for us.  We may not have such a stacked team for another 10 years.

Quick comments: I was at the game tonight and enjoyed the general atmosphere of the tournament. It wasn't as hostile as I thought it would be, but the rental Green Bay/Detroit High School Band was getting on my nerves... I mean if you are going to vote for the neutral site tournament, shouldn't you be obligated to bring your own band? The GB Band is actually quite good and was in Valpo in 2013 and 2015...

Oakland did not bring as many fans as expected and even their student section wasn't full. We clearly gave too much of a home court advantage to them. It was loud for Oakland but not home game loud.

Also, STILL haven't seen Oakland win a game in person... 0-5 when I am in attendance. Hmm...

I think tonight was the kiss of death to the double bye. The format will be the same as Arch Madness for 2017. You can bet on it now.

I could not stand the swarm of Oakland people that immediately began to overtake Section 122 after our game was over. I paid for the ticket, it's my seat. You aren't wearing Valpo, so don't expect me to move so you can sit closer to your team. This also opens up the arguement of how the HL needs to arrange seating for these games...

I cannot wait for this tourney to be at the new Detroit facility.

Donlon is a fantastic coach and should have been COY. Darner is a rising star and will be moving up quickly in the coaching ranks.

Let's destroy the NIT and get to MSG in New York at the end of the month!!! Go Valpo!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

Quote from: valpotx on March 07, 2016, 11:34:25 PMI look forward to that packed house that Detroit will bring, since it can bring all fans together

Our last hope for attendance is that LeCrone vs 1100lb Grizzly halftime wrestling match. I hope that bear hasn't been fed for a while! Will that be televised on ESPN?

So instead of a packed house and a great atmosphere in the higher seed's home court and, if it were Valpo, a likely 11 or 12 seed with a realistic chance to win a game in the dance to the benefit of the entire league we have a final in a pretty much empty arena which will result in a seed with little to no chance to win a game in the dance. Brilliant business decision Horizon league. I sure hope whatever financial arrangement the league negotiated with Detroit to move the tournament there will make up the difference for all the schools in the league.

Quote from: a3uge on March 07, 2016, 11:29:12 PM
I would imagine the game gets flexed to espn2...

It was always scheduled for espn2

Quote from: HailVU2014 on March 07, 2016, 11:52:19 PMI think tonight was the kiss of death to the double bye. The format will be the same as Arch Madness for 2017. You can bet on it now.

1.  Good.
2.  Then why did they suddenly *add* the double-byes to the women's tournament this year??

Quote from: StlVUFan on March 08, 2016, 12:20:03 AM

Quote from: HailVU2014 on March 07, 2016, 11:52:19 PMI think tonight was the kiss of death to the double bye. The format will be the same as Arch Madness for 2017. You can bet on it now.

1.  Good.
2.  Then why did they suddenly *add* the double-byes to the women's tournament this year??

Was unaware of that for the HLWBB tourney. Just like the tourney was changed within one year, I presume the the format can change just as quickly, even if the WBB double bye never sees the light of day?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

Quote from: oklahomamick on March 07, 2016, 09:59:40 PM
We dominated this league in 18 games.  Only a few teams have won this league by 3 games.  We set new records for the HL.  Dominated the  season, did not in tournament game. 

To me that says something about the coaching. Of course no one wants to criticize our respected coaching staff too much but I do feel it let us down greatly in the tournament and the two games against WSU.

Quote from: HailVU2014 on March 08, 2016, 12:23:50 AM

Quote from: StlVUFan on March 08, 2016, 12:20:03 AM

Quote from: HailVU2014 on March 07, 2016, 11:52:19 PMI think tonight was the kiss of death to the double bye. The format will be the same as Arch Madness for 2017. You can bet on it now.

1.  Good.
2.  Then why did they suddenly *add* the double-byes to the women's tournament this year??

Was unaware of that for the HLWBB tourney. Just like the tourney was changed within one year, I presume the the format can change just as quickly, even if the WBB double bye never sees the light of day?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

Yeah it can, I just don't understand why they switched if they're going to decide to scrap it

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

Quote from: bbtds on March 08, 2016, 12:40:56 AMOf course no one wants to criticize our respected coaching staff too much but I do feel it let us down greatly in the tournament and the two games against WSU.

This shorthanded loss to a hot shooting GB will not be remembered as the decider. Having no answer for the WSU defense is going to stick with me for a long time.

First off, I just want to make it clear, I'm not coming on here to rub it your faces, it was a great game. Trust me, us GB fans know how u feel. We thought the 2013-2014 team was destined for the Big Dance but a few ill timed injuries cost us a shot at that.

Now lets be honest, you guys did not lose this game because it was played at a neutral site, or because you had 8 days off and had a double bye. You were outplayed and out coached. And please quit criticizing the conference because they will have a "empty arena" for the championship game tomorrow night. Who cares, i'm sure the "National audience" will be so sad they don't get to watch a game played in a glorified high school gym. Also some of you have said the winner of tomorrow nights game will probably be a 15 seed or maybe even a 14 and go 1 and done in the tourney, and you might be right. But theirs no guarantee that Valpo would have done anything either. I understand all of you guys are upset tonight and rightfully so but these excuses and criticism of the conference are a joke. You had it all set up for you guys and unfortunately you picked a bad time to lay an egg.

1 thing I want to bring up about the game that no one is really talking about is Keith Carter fouling out. Obviously that effected you guys in OT. You guys were down 3 at the time with just under a minute to go and had you just played solid defense and got a stop would have had a chance to tie with a 3. I also get why you would foul there, make GB make FT's, (which they didn't do too well) extend the game, etc. I guess I just don't understand why Carter would intentionally foul with that much time left knowing that he would be disqualified, someone else could have easily committed the foul and kept Carter in the game.

Oh well, good luck in the NIT. Unfortunately I think we will lose tomorrow night and be headed to the CIT or CBI. Either way, still a great first year for Linc Darner. 

One of the most egregious coaching errors I've seen all year came at the end of regulation when nobody from Green Bay's bench instructed Cooper to intentionally miss the second free throw, which would have allowed Valpo nothing more than an 80 foot heave. Remember Valpo was out of timeouts and there was only 2.1 seconds left. There's never a more clear cut time to miss a free throw, yet not a single coach, player, or manager said a word to Cooper. Thus allowing Valpo the home run pass and overtime. Seconds after Peters made the layup Greg Kampe looked at me and simultaneously we said "why did he make that free throw?"

LeCrone is a clown, and a final in Detroit in front of a few hundred is  a joke. That being said, Valpo has only themselves to blame. They played flat, did not play defense like they did all season, and blaming officiating for the loss is a copout.

This sucks for the Horizon League and Valpo, but that excuse is a copout. If you want to be the champion and make it to the tournament, you have to prove it. GB outplayed us and Valpo's defense was lacking.

Quote from: StlVUFan on March 08, 2016, 12:19:15 AM

Quote from: a3uge on March 07, 2016, 11:29:12 PM
I would imagine the game gets flexed to espn2...

It was always scheduled for espn2

No.

Also, Green Bay doesn't shoot 12-22 from deep at the ARC, and Valpo likely doesn't shoot 9-29. I didn't think that was an outlandish opinion...

Slept like a baby last night. Woke up crying every two hours.

Paul

Its painful

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

Quote from: chef on March 08, 2016, 03:08:20 AM
One of the most egregious coaching errors I've seen all year came at the end of regulation when nobody from Green Bay's bench instructed Cooper to intentionally miss the second free throw, which would have allowed Valpo nothing more than an 80 foot heave. Remember Valpo was out of timeouts and there was only 2.1 seconds left. There's never a more clear cut time to miss a free throw, yet not a single coach, player, or manager said a word to Cooper. Thus allowing Valpo the home run pass and overtime. Seconds after Peters made the layup Greg Kampe looked at me and simultaneously we said "why did he make that free throw?"

I thought the same thing at the time. 1.6 seconds later I was very thankful. The thankfulness was short lived, however.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: nkvu on March 07, 2016, 08:37:25 PM
Lack of a true point guard hurt us in ot. Have to give Green Bay credit. They hit the shots, got the rebounds and made the free throws they had to. They played with more poise and deserved to win. Sad end to what was a realistic shot at doing some damage in the dance.

This game was lost by the decisions made following the loss at Wright State. Anyone who watched that game saw that Valpo needed a true backup pg who could run the offense and, more importantly, UNDERSTAND, what the defense was doing. When it was decided to stay the course with Hammink and E Vic -- while Lexus Williams sat on the bench -- you saw the result last night.

Quote from: a3uge on March 08, 2016, 05:15:43 AMAlso, Green Bay doesn't shoot 12-22 from deep at the ARC, and Valpo likely doesn't shoot 9-29. I didn't think that was an outlandish opinion...

Thats the cause of the loss.  the difference at 3pt was huge.

Quote from: Goraiders93 on March 07, 2016, 09:12:40 PM
Don't want to come across as an absolute ass, but if your team couldn't win a neutral site league tournament game to Green Bay, were they really going to be successful in the NCAA Tournament?? I don't know many people who like the new format, so don't act as if only Valpo was affected.

Go ask George Mason that question. Or better yet, ask Oregon or Oregon State.

Quote from: crusaderboy on March 08, 2016, 07:13:58 AM

Quote from: nkvu on March 07, 2016, 08:37:25 PM
Lack of a true point guard hurt us in ot. Have to give Green Bay credit. They hit the shots, got the rebounds and made the free throws they had to. They played with more poise and deserved to win. Sad end to what was a realistic shot at doing some damage in the dance.

This game was lost by the decisions made following the loss at Wright State. Anyone who watched that game saw that Valpo needed a true backup pg who could run the offense and, more importantly, UNDERSTAND, what the defense was doing. When it was decided to stay the course with Hammink and E Vic -- while Lexus Williams sat on the bench -- you saw the result last night.

Do you think this is part of a plan that favors seniors because they have "earned" their playing time by their need to "play now or it's over?" Homer was also one to reward seniors just for being there longer.

If you were Alec Peters would you think about transferring to a more loaded team (a school that seems destined to win) for 2017-18? He would have to sit out 2016-17. 

I think Bryce is enamored with 6-6, 6-7 players who are athletic, but also wild cards, at the expense of 6-foot point guards who are not flashy and won't frighten anyone getting off the bus. But the thing is, Lexus was good enough to play as a freshman, and play well. Watching him, he had that "it" quality to him. Now, I do not know how much the injury has slowed him, or if he is only a shell of the player he was two years ago, but after that Wright State game on the road, he at least deserved a chance.

As for Peters, let me ask you this: wouldn't you look around?

I actually believe, if he stays, that they can be better next season. I may be wrong, but one thing that always gnawed at me watching this team, was I never got the impression that Alec felt like this was his team. Your best player HAS TO LEAD at this level. I would like to see that side of him emerge next season.
They will miss K Carter, for sure, but everyone else was spare parts. I really do like Hammink -- he reminds me of a lefty Shawn Huff -- and I am looking forward to seeing more touches for T Walker, Skara and Jubril. Plus you add Derrick Smits to the fold and Valpo could have some serious juice next season.
It will all come down to Alec's decision.

Wait, Alec Peters is a free agent?

Quote from: a3uge on March 08, 2016, 07:51:28 AM
Wait, Alec Peters is a free agent?

I believe he will graduate in May and is free to pursue a grad transfer

To be fair, to the GB fan from above, some nice points, congrats and good luck. If you'd bothered to look around a bit, we've been bitching about this conference all year, and the outcome of one game does not change my opinion. It WILL be an embarrassment to the conference to play in front of under a thousand fans for the right to go to the big dance. And no one is saying it would have been better had we made it. Oakland losing was the key. Please do a little homework or drop the guise of "respect" and just flat out troll us. 

Quote from: a3uge on March 08, 2016, 07:51:28 AM
Wait, Alec Peters is a free agent?

Unfortunately in today's NCAA every player in every sport has the chance to transfer. This past off season was the only one that Valpo DIDN'T have a player transfer in recent memory.

I could not watch the game live and relied on Game Tracker only.  So I didn't see the ebb and flow of the game -- only the stats as they came up.

(1)  Now I am looking at the box score and what jumps out at me was that Vashil, the DPOY, only played 24 minutes while only committing 2 PFs.  And we surrender 1 shy of 100 points.  Wasn't the point of having a rim protector to enable the perimeter defenders to challenge the 3 point shot (which we apparently did not -- 12/22!) without worrying about inside?  Someone please explain?

(2)  And as I watched Game Tracker and saw Valpo 3 point attempt after 3 point attempt go clang in the second half (and GB get the DRB), I noticed in spite of that we were still managing to hang close.  So I was continually asking myself after every errant three attempt, why weren't we pounding the ball in low or at least trying to get better 2 pt looks.  If we would have made just half the 2 pt shots down low or from 15'  in place of those missed threes, we would have had a comfortable margin and better chances at ORBs.  Someone please explain?

I seem to recall some Mid-Con teams crying foul when someone with very close ties to VU signed a multi-year deal to play the conference tournament in Fort Wayne.  And there were literally dozens of people watching those games.  I guess what goes around comes around.  The current venue isn't going to wow anyone who happens to be on channel 256 when their remote control batteries run out of juice, but I think VU's play down the stretch had much more to do with the loss, than playing in an outdated venue away from home.     

ESPN bracketology has Wright St. as a 16 seed.

I can explain #1 pretty well. Green Bay frequently went with a line up that had Fouse and Hurdle as their "bigs". Vashil couldn't guard them 1 on 1 and Jubril was a better match up on the defensive end. For some reason Bryce was reluctant to go into a zone, but I really think if you put a 3-2 zone with Vashil and Alec down low I think you slow down their shooting tirade.

As for the second point, that's something Bryce and the players would have to ask. I think they'd say they weren't affected by the fact they were shooting in an 20k+ arena vs. the normal 8-10K college stadiums, but you could see it on Keith and Alec's shots in the first half.

Quote from: oklahomamick on March 08, 2016, 09:07:36 AM
ESPN bracketology has Wright St. as a 16 seed.

I really hope the winner of tonight gets a 15 seed and plays Maryland. Let's see how that goes for them.

I saw where someone thought this was the worst thing for Valpo basketball since the Harden one finger salute.  I realize the frustration and disappointment, but I still believe that this team the best team Valpo has had.  They may not have achieved their goal for the season, but should still be proud.  The 1998 team may have finished the season well, but this team played well (mostly) the whole year. 

Green Bay should be congratulated on the game they played.  They beat us, out hustled us, and had an answer for every time we had a little momentum.  Watching the game, it seemed that our team, except for Peters and sometimes Carter, did not have a sense of urgency while playing 6-7 points down most of the second half.  GB played with energy the whole game, especially after we took a short lead in OT. 

The game came down to the 3-point line - they made their shots and we didn't.  According to ESPN's BPI, we saved our worst game of the year for last night.  Also, GB played their best game of the year.  We play an average game, we win. 

While I still feel that we are worthy of an at-large berth, I'm not convinced the selection committee will think so.  RPI is not the only ranking system that the committee uses, and I hope that the committee looks at our time in the AP and USA Today polls, as we were in the top 40 for much of the last several weeks.  It would have been nice if Wichita State had won the MVC, so that is one at-large off the table.  We now need for the rest of the conference tournaments to be won by the expected team.  We also need most or all of the bubble teams to lose early in their respective conference tournaments.  This includes Vandy, Cincinnati, St. Bonaventure, Syracuse, VA Commonwealth, UConn, Temple, Gonzaga, Oregon St, Tulsa, Michigan, Florida, South Carolina and Pittsburgh.  With Monmouth also losing, I think we are competing with them and Temple for a play-in 12 seed. 

I think that a nice finish to this season would be a trip to NY.  This team can do it - I just hope that they get motivated for going on the road to have that opportunity.

I would hope that Alec stays.  His girlfriend is apparently Abby Dean based on previous posts I have seen on here, and she is a Senior.  I wouldn't put it past any Power 5 conference teams to casually mention something to him, if they know that he graduates in May. 

I think Alec has a good relationship with Bryce and wouldn't leave.  I think the odds of K. Felder leaving for NBA is higher than Alec leaving to a high major.  If I was betting...

Quote from: oklahomamick on March 08, 2016, 12:41:45 PM
I think Alec has a good relationship with Bryce and wouldn't leave.  I think the odds of K. Felder leaving for NBA is higher than Alec leaving to a high major.  If I was betting...

Taking into account your information, then he wouldn't leave...unless Bryce leaves ;).  This will be a long offseason, similar to last season.

Quote from: bbtds on March 08, 2016, 07:19:46 AMIf you were Alec Peters would you think about transferring to a more loaded team (a school that seems destined to win) for 2017-18? He would have to sit out 2016-17. 

He would not have to sit out next season.

Yes, Valpo should have won the game no matter the venue, but there is no denying that the game ends differently at the ARC. I would think after dominating conference play we would have earned the right to play that game at home, but perhaps others feel differently.

There is no guarantee that Valpo goes to the Sweet Sixteen this year. But I like their chances a hell of a lot more than GB or WSU's. I don't see either of those teams coming up in anyone's Cinderella watches. If either team wins two or more games, I'll eat my words.

Here's what's going to happen tonight. The game is Green Bay versus Wright State at the JLA, 200 miles driving distance from Dayton, and 450 miles from Green Bay. On a weeknight no less. Maybe 1000 people are going to show up (there would have been just as many were it at Valpo, and 6000+ were it at the Nutter Center), bringing the tournament total attendance to about 18,000. Half of what they were hoping for.

LeCrone and the cronies at Olympia will claim the tournament a success despite getting 50% of their attendance goal, and anointing a soon-to-be one-and-done commuter school that no one is going to think twice about in the brackets. They'll say the usual wishwash about learning a few things and looking forward to improving the experience next season, and NOTHING appreciable will change.

Vashil played only 24 minutes with 2 points, 2 blocks and 0 personal fouls. The lineup GB used forced Bryce to either play more zone or play longer stretches with Vashil on the bench. With our best team defender riding the pine, our best guard defender (Tevonn) unavailable, and their incredible 3 point (12-22) shooting; exactly what GB wanted to happen- happened. That is some solid coaching with just a dash of shooting luck.

A coach has to pick his poison. In retrospect should we have played more zone? I realize that their transition game would have sometimes prevented us from setting up.

Quote from: justducky on March 08, 2016, 03:24:00 PM
Vashil played only 24 minutes with 2 points, 2 blocks and 0 personal fouls. The lineup GB used forced Bryce to either play more zone or play longer stretches with Vashil on the bench. With our best team defender riding the pine, our best guard defender (Tevonn) unavailable, and their incredible 3 point (12-22) shooting; exactly what GB wanted to happen- happened. That is some solid coaching with just a dash of shooting luck.

A coach has to pick his poison. In retrospect should we have played more zone? I realize that their transition game would have sometimes prevented us from setting up.

Minor, insignificant correction - Vashil had 2 PFs. But you confirm a question asked and speculated upon in another string.  And when you bench the HL DPOY for half the game it suggests that he was a liability defensively, because we never feature him on offense. 20/20 hindsight also suggests that instead of benching him, surround him with a better situation i.e., zone. 

I suspect the reason for Vashil's reduced minutes had to do with Green Bay's press, and the fact Valpo was down most of the game. Jubril is handy because he can handle the ball. He's also better on offense, something which you typically need to generate a comeback.

Quote from: covufan on March 08, 2016, 10:08:24 AMI saw where someone thought this was the worst thing for Valpo basketball since the Harden one finger salute.  I realize the frustration and disappointment, but I still believe that this team the best team Valpo has had.  They may not have achieved their goal for the season, but should still be proud.  The 1998 team may have finished the season well, but this team played well (mostly) the whole year. Green Bay should be congratulated on the game they played.  They beat us, out hustled us, and had an answer for every time we had a little momentum.  Watching the game, it seemed that our team, except for Peters and sometimes Carter, did not have a sense of urgency while playing 6-7 points down most of the second half.  GB played with energy the whole game, especially after we took a short lead in OT. The game came down to the 3-point line - they made their shots and we didn't.  According to ESPN's BPI, we saved our worst game of the year for last night.  Also, GB played their best game of the year.  We play an average game, we win. While I still feel that we are worthy of an at-large berth, I'm not convinced the selection committee will think so.  RPI is not the only ranking system that the committee uses, and I hope that the committee looks at our time in the AP and USA Today polls, as we were in the top 40 for much of the last several weeks.  It would have been nice if Wichita State had won the MVC, so that is one at-large off the table.  We now need for the rest of the conference tournaments to be won by the expected team.  We also need most or all of the bubble teams to lose early in their respective conference tournaments.  This includes Vandy, Cincinnati, St. Bonaventure, Syracuse, VA Commonwealth, UConn, Temple, Gonzaga, Oregon St, Tulsa, Michigan, Florida, South Carolina and Pittsburgh.  With Monmouth also losing, I think we are competing with them and Temple for a play-in 12 seed. I think that a nice finish to this season would be a trip to NY.  This team can do it - I just hope that they get motivated for going on the road to have that opportunity.

On paper this may be the best team Valpo ever had, but in reality this team did not meet expectations when it counted, but that's basketball. GB played an A game and Valpo played a C+/C game last night. Regarding the NIT, in the grand scheme it is "who cares" scenario, where we are talking about warm fuzzies and feel good plastic trophies.

I, like all of the other fans on this board, was disappointed about last night's loss but it got me thinking that if Valpo misses the NCAA tournament (highly likely, I know--but still not completely ruled out...ask Lloyd from Dumb and Dumber), the coaches and players need to understand that the games in November and December really don't matter.  Furthermore, the league games really don't matter either.  The only thing that matters is that your team is playing their best ball over one extended weekend in early March.  Who really cares if you're a 14 or 15 seed--as long as you're in the dance?

Coming to this understanding means, as a coach you should play 12 deep throughout the season to develop your young players and make sure your senior players are well rested.  Because, again, it doesn't matter if you win games in the regular season--As an alum and fan, I'd gladly trade the 2 wins against Green Bay, or Milwaukie or UIC or anyone else for an NCAA tournament appearance.

Well at least we lost in ot to the team that won it all. I suppose that's something. Ok it's not much but it's something. I'm trying real hard here.

Quote from: Pgmado on March 08, 2016, 02:40:18 PMHe would not have to sit out next season.

If it were me and I would have a chance to go to a Power 5 and I have nba potential it's a no brainer to go.  You are gaining nothing by staying.  Your ability will always be questioned if you could play at a higher level if you stay at Valpo.

UWGB Was the best Team this weekend, good week to be good.   Nice Job! Over the last four years we have spoiled a number of weekends for GB, this weekend we were weak and ended!   ???

Congrats to UWGB they earned the tourney championship. Cooper and Fouse were to me Co-MOPs of tourney. 

Brian Wardle who?

So this is a guy who had little success and took advantage of it and put himself in a better situation in the MVC.....  8-)

I'm Watching the GB late news coverage of the GB win. Didn't realize that this is their first NCAA visit in 20 years.  Gotta a say, they did a great job of winning 4 games in 4 days. Congratulation to the Phoenix.

We now have good coaching at VU, GB, WSU, Oakland, and UWM.  The NKU coach is a go-getter and that program will rise quickly.  I think UIC will improve under their new coach as well. The CSU  coach had some really bad luck retaining some key players this year, but his teams are usually very competitive. That leaves UDM and YSU. 

We all miss the old format...this would have helped tonight. Watch the full video. Gives me chills at the end.

http://youtu.be/rfWPIlhkDKI (http://youtu.be/rfWPIlhkDKI)

Yeah, but if it was the old format, you still wouldn't have hosted.  The championship game would have been at Valpo ;).

I do have to say that in spite of my deep dislike for anything Butler, that HL semifinal game I attended at Valpo was the loudest I have ever heard the ARC.  That is saying something for one of the best environments in all of college basketball (talking about decibels here, not the look of our gym).  It was back-and-forth screaming from Butler and Valpo fans.

Quote from: valpotx on March 08, 2016, 11:43:48 PM
Yeah, but if it was the old format, you still wouldn't have hosted.  The championship game would have been at Valpo ;).

I do have to say that in spite of my deep dislike for anything Butler, that HL semifinal game I attended at Valpo was the loudest I have ever heard the ARC.  That is saying something for one of the best environments in all of college basketball (talking about decibels here, not the look of our gym).  It was back-and-forth screaming from Butler and Valpo fans.

Nope, old format would have been at the Nutter Center. Similar to 2014 when Milwaukee knocked off #1 seed Green Bay and Wright St. was the higher seed in the Championship game.

I thought we should've been playing more zone just to keep Vashil in the game...then again I haven't won a ton of Division 1 basketball games so I will trust Coach Drew's judgement even in defeat.

Quote from: Kyle321n on March 09, 2016, 08:39:11 AM

Quote from: valpotx on March 08, 2016, 11:43:48 PM
Yeah, but if it was the old format, you still wouldn't have hosted.  The championship game would have been at Valpo ;).

I do have to say that in spite of my deep dislike for anything Butler, that HL semifinal game I attended at Valpo was the loudest I have ever heard the ARC.  That is saying something for one of the best environments in all of college basketball (talking about decibels here, not the look of our gym).  It was back-and-forth screaming from Butler and Valpo fans.

Nope, old format would have been at the Nutter Center. Similar to 2014 when Milwaukee knocked off #1 seed Green Bay and Wright St. was the higher seed in the Championship game.

You didn't get my not-so-subtle hint that we would have beaten GB at the ARC ;)

Quote from: HC on March 09, 2016, 09:15:32 AM
I thought we should've been playing more zone just to keep Vashil in the game...then again I haven't won a ton of Division 1 basketball games so I will trust Coach Drew's judgement even in defeat.

......and that was a mistake....play with your strength.

http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/podtrackstg.radio.com/pts/nyc.podcast.play.it/media/d0/d0/d1/dB/d4/dG/dR/1B4GR_4.MP3?show=The+Boers+%26+Bernstein+Show&category=Sports+%26+Recreation&callsign=WSCRAM&market=Chicago&awCollectionId=793&awEpisodeId=606587 (http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/podtrackstg.radio.com/pts/nyc.podcast.play.it/media/d0/d0/d1/dB/d4/dG/dR/1B4GR_4.MP3?show=The+Boers+%26+Bernstein+Show&category=Sports+%26+Recreation&callsign=WSCRAM&market=Chicago&awCollectionId=793&awEpisodeId=606587)

I haven't listened yet, but apparently they talked about Matt Menzl getting temporarily kicked out of the game.

Bleacher Report suggest only 6 teams in the NCAA tourney being worse than Green Bay.  Good job HL, way to send the best representative of the league.   :thumbsup:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2621911-ncaa-basketball-2016-real-time-team-rankings-going-into-selection-sunday/page/11 (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2621911-ncaa-basketball-2016-real-time-team-rankings-going-into-selection-sunday/page/11)

From the article:

The Phoenix can run, but on possessions where they don't force turnovers, they don't defend well enough to hang with elite teams.

The author must not be aware that GB has 2 of the top 5 defenders in the 130-player HL, as selected by HL coaches and/or media experts. He probably just went to the NCAA's statistics page that shows GB in the bottom half of D-1 in team defense and came to a shortsighted conclusion that GB is a mediocre defensive team. I doubt if he is even aware that Alec averaged more points against GB than any other team in the HL.  Does this sound like a team that "doesn't defend well enough to hang with elite teams?"