Hello all, long time reader, first time poster here. I am a former manager of the basketball team and graduated in 2014. Besides the huge tuition I am still paying for, I am heavily invested in Valpo basketball. I have been reading the forums for quite some time now and look forward to participating in the future. I am here to discuss the possibility of bolting the Horizon League. We cannot subject ourselves to this one bid conference any longer. It is unfair to Coach Drew and our players. Playing in that dump called Joe Louis is ridiculous and should be reason enough to seek other options. I actually created a group on facebook that hopefully will push the envelope to move to another conference and improve our aging facilities. It can be found when searched "Crusaders Supporting Departure from Horizon League".
Thanks Guys!
Welcome! It has been brought up MANY times on this forum, but unfortunately, it isn't likely to happen at any time in the near future. Most on here would love to be in the MVC long-term, some prefer the A-10 or Big East.
Welcome! You can find moving conference discussions/facilities discussions in pretty much every thread[emoji14]
I agree. If there was a Midwest equivalent of the West Coast Conference (all private, mid-sized universities in the true mid-major mold) that would be perfect, but it doesn't exist.
Quote from: bsmith21 on March 09, 2016, 12:57:39 PM
I might be a complete moron for even asking this question but is the Big East even close to an option? They have Depaul and Butler and the three teams that they added recently were somewhat necessary for them to keep a league. All those teams (Butler, Creighton, and X) have had tournament success and much bigger and better facilities. What I think might be the biggest problems is that all of those schools were strategic in some way; Butler got them a recruiting rich Indianapolis and Indiana, X got them in Ohio and Creighton got them west. All of them are also in sizable cities more or less. I understand that we could compete with them in basketball but I don't see the Big East as an option. I would the A-10 might want a good Indiana school or the MVC to add another good team to help the leagues RPI.
Valpo to the Big East is about as likely as UWM going to the Big 10.
Quote from: HinsdaleVUguy on March 08, 2016, 07:59:50 PM
Hello all, long time reader, first time poster here. I am a former manager of the basketball team and graduated in 2014. Besides the huge tuition I am still paying for, I am heavily invested in Valpo basketball. I have been reading the forums for quite some time now and look forward to participating in the future. I am here to discuss the possibility of bolting the Horizon League. We cannot subject ourselves to this one bid conference any longer. It is unfair to Coach Drew and our players. Playing in that dump called Joe Louis is ridiculous and should be reason enough to seek other options. I actually created a group on facebook that hopefully will push the envelope to move to another conference and improve our aging facilities. It can be found when searched "Crusaders Supporting Departure from Horizon League".
Thanks Guys!
Simple question. How do we get invited to a conference that would be multi-bid?
Quote from: bsmith21 on March 09, 2016, 11:11:28 PM
A good place to start is to win a ncaa tournament game this millenia. That and invest some money in improving our facilities.
On that second point you're preaching to a choir that has gone horse singing that very tune to apparently deaf ears. :deadhorse:
A quick observation, and this thread seems as good a place as any.
In the last couple of weeks, I've been surprised to run across mentions from more than one opposing fan base along the same lines. It seems that a _lot_ of teams, or at least their fans, think that they deserve a "better" conference than the Horizon League.
Fans are upset with the Horizon. All fingers point to LeCrone, maybe this league could be what it was when we entered if we had different leadership.
Quote from: agibson on March 23, 2016, 01:07:02 PM
A quick observation, and this thread seems as good a place as any.
In the last couple of weeks, I've been surprised to run across mentions from more than one opposing fan base along the same lines. It seems that a _lot_ of teams, or at least their fans, think that they deserve a "better" conference than the Horizon League.
If you don't mind listening to a lot of UWM and Cleveland State talk, with some others thrown in, the HoriZone podcasts by Bob McDonald and Jimmy Lemke go over some league history information that proves a good background for some of this discontent.
I know we tend to focus on the MVC around these parts, but which league has a better chance of being a two bid league in the near future--the HL or the MAAC? You know outside of geography, the make up of the MAAC actually fits the profile of Valpo better than the HL. I'm not saying that we should leave the HL but the MAAC does sit at 11...
The HL is ranked higher than the MAC most years. The MAC has not been constant multi-bid league like the MVC. The MAC is focused more on football when the MVC (they have football too) is more focused on basketball.
The ONLY advantage is see in the HL is that most of our alumni and student recruiting comes from states within the HL. Although the HL and MVC share states within their respected footprints, MVC does not have teams or games in Michigan. Valpo several alumni living in Michigan. Same goes for Wisconsin and Ohio. MVC has teams in Iowa and Kansas but VU does not have a strong presence in those states.
MVC tournament is a more neutral site than HL's Motor City Madness. Is St. Louis more convenient for our fans and alumni than Detroit? Would we have more fans there than we would at Detroit?
Are you guys talking about the MAAC - or the MAC?
The MAAC.
QuoteThe HL is ranked higher than the MAAC most years.
True, but with or without a Valpo add? Look, don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to make VU out to be a white knight and argue that a Valpo add would make the MAAC an instant two bid league year in and year out by any means. Yes, the preference is the MVC if we explore available options. Yes, the HL has been ranked higher than the MAAC. But what about the future?
Valpo, Monmouth, Siena, Iona...now that's some pretty good mid major basketball right there just off the top of my head. Again, I'm not saying the HL is hot garbage. I'd like to see the HL become a consistent two bid league. Which though has a better possibility of doing so--the HL or the MAAC in the future? Just throwing this out there for discussion sake.
I would selfishly love Valpo in the MAAC! Many more games that I'd get to attend from my North Jersey setting ;D. Not sure that it makes much sense for other sports to have regular bus trips in the neighborhood of 12 plus hours, though.
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 24, 2016, 10:15:25 AM
The HL is ranked higher than the MAC most years. The MAC has not been constant multi-bid league like the MVC. The MAC is focused more on football when the MVC (they have football too) is more focused on basketball.
The ONLY advantage is see in the HL is that most of our alumni and student recruiting comes from states within the HL. Although the HL and MVC share states within their respected footprints, MVC does not have teams or games in Michigan. Valpo several alumni living in Michigan. Same goes for Wisconsin and Ohio. MVC has teams in Iowa and Kansas but VU does not have a strong presence in those states.
MVC tournament is a more neutral site than HL's Motor City Madness. Is St. Louis more convenient for our fans and alumni than Detroit? Would we have more fans there than we would at Detroit?
I'd love to see Valpo in the MVC, one I live in Des Moines so I get to see them in Drake and UNI. Also the conference is significantly stronger. You pick up the whole state of Illinois which still includes Chicago as well as central and southern Indiana which currently has 0 HL teams. I think more people would be willing to go to St. Louis over Detoilet any day of the week.
Yes you lose Michigan and Wisconsin but your cheeseheads can still easily travel southward to Chicago for Loyola; the only ones who get screwered are your Michiganders, which sucks for them. You basically pick up the rest of the state of Illinois, with Bradley and Southern Illinois; as well as the rest of Indiana with Indiana State and Evansville. The Illinois+Indiana populations of Valpo fans greatly outweighs the Michigan+Wisconsin fans.
I've been a proponent for Valpo going to the MVC ever since they were looking to pick up another school. Hopefully the MVC is looking to expand this season and take a good long look at Valpo.
Oh, the MAAC, I thought you meant the MAC. MAAC would be too much travel. I understand its just a fun discussion but little reality or chance.
They may not be looking. But we have to be aggressive and convince them.
No to the MAAC.
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 24, 2016, 10:15:25 AMThe MAC is focused more on football when the MVC (they have football too) is more focused on basketball.
The MVC does not have football. The Missouri Valley Football Conference is separate from the MVC.
Both the MAAC and MAC are illogical. The closest team in the MAAC would be Canisius at 7 hours and 30 minutes away. The athletic budget would have to triple for that to happen - chartering the volleyball team to New Jersey? And every team in that conference would have to fly into Valpo for a conference game... Just doesn't make sense for either party.
The MAC also isn't logical as it's a football conference and we aren't a football school.
Yes, I was meaning a lot of those schools have basketball and football.
I agree--the MAAC is too far. Too much travel.
So let's look at the possibilities. The Big East? Nada Surf. The A-10? Nein. The OVC? Fuggetabadit. Interest by the MVC to move beyond 10? Blue Horseshoe loves Anacott Steel. The MAAC? Live long and prosper.
Close up shop boys, this thread's over.
Let's be the Butler of the current Horizon and make it so strong that good schools will want to join like Valpo did when BU was the exemplary member.
Quote from: bbtds on March 25, 2016, 11:03:16 AM
Let's be the Butler of the current Horizon and make it so strong that good schools will want to join like Valpo did when BU was the exemplary member.
We already seem to be pretty good at the "we're too good for this nothing conference" part.
Creighton's AD has announced that he'll propose Big East expansion to include Wichita State (!) and Gonzaga (?!).
Gonzaga maybe, but no way regarding Wichita State. They would be going against the entire desire they had to create a private-only conference with religious affiliations.
Quote from: valpotx on March 25, 2016, 06:54:24 PM
Gonzaga maybe, but no way regarding Wichita State. They would be going against the entire desire they had to create a private-only conference with religious affiliations.
Gonzaga in the Big East. You might as well have 14 teams in the B1G and 10 teams in the Big 12.
I can't see Gonzaga in the Big East for obvious map reasons. I talked to Creighton folk on spring break and the other non-hoops teams hate being in the Big East.
I would see SLU getting a Big East invite before Gonzaga.
If I was the Big East, I would look at Siena. Catholic school averaging around 8k per game and good bball program, fits in geographically.
We should be lobbying for Big East if they're looking for expansion partners!
Quote from: bsmith21 on March 26, 2016, 10:32:14 PMI don't care how much lobbying we do we are not getting into the Big East
I would settle for the summit over the HL right now.
Happy Easter!!!!
I take the HL over the Summit. I still think the MVC is a future possibility.
Losing to GB in semis is not helping the argument of evalating to a better conference.
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 27, 2016, 09:02:52 AMLosing to GB in semis is not helping the argument of evalating to a better conference.
No but 4 out of 5 League Championships do. Throw in a NIT final four.
We are not going to the Big East no matter how bad DePaul performs, they are building a state of the art arena South of the Loop that will seat 11K. The MVC decided Loyola, with their Gentile Center is their "Chicago" in. Our only real option is the A 10 if they expand or trying to "recruit" other better Mid Majors to form a better conference. Otherwise we are "stuck" Ladies and Gents and deal with what we have now.
I have to wonder why Chicago is so stupid to build an 11K arena for that inept DePaul program especially with the budget deficit and problems they have.
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 28, 2016, 06:56:24 AM
I have to wonder why Chicago is so stupid to build an 11K arena for that inept DePaul program especially with the budget deficit and problems they have.
They are taking DePaul basketball out of Rosemont and putting back into the city where many think it truly belongs. The building will get used by many, many other city elements. Like the airports, the cabs and ubers will pay an extra $5 to the city when they pick up at this location.
Gonzaga to the Big East? You have got to be kidding! Coast to coast for a conference game...I don't think so. When BU made the move they were hoping to increase attendance by selling out conference games. I have only seen a few attendance numbers for a couple of their home conference games and they were in the 7,000 range...of course they get some big TV money I believe. I just wonder how many of their fans care about watching LaSalle, Seton Hall or St. Joe, etc. If we can't even fill up the ARC for Detroit or Oakland, does anyone really think we would do so with LaSalle and other Big East teams? Who cares about those East coast teams other than Villanova? Other than the HL, I think the MVC is the only move that would make sense if we consider moving.
Quote from: valpo64 on March 28, 2016, 01:10:48 PM
Gonzaga to the Big East? You have got to be kidding! Coast to coast for a conference game...I don't think so. When BU made the move they were hoping to increase attendance by selling out conference games. I have only seen a few attendance numbers for a couple of their home conference games and they were in the 7,000 range...of course they get some big TV money I believe. I just wonder how many of their fans care about watching LaSalle, Seton Hall or St. Joe, etc. If we can't even fill up the ARC for Detroit or Oakland, does anyone really think we would do so with LaSalle and other Big East teams? Who cares about those East coast teams other than Villanova? Other than the HL, I think the MVC is the only move that would make sense if we consider moving.
You're pretty misguided here... La Salle is in the A10. Butler is in the Big East.
Very very small chance but if Missouri St. ups their football program like they want and get into the Sun Belt like they want.....Valpo slides in... :thumbsup:
If we ever get our wish and join another conference, I wonder what school the HL would go after.
Probably IPFW, as they are having some success in various sports, and are within the HL footprint.
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 29, 2016, 02:29:12 PM
If we ever get our wish and join another conference, I wonder what school the HL would go after.
I'd imagine IPFW or IUPUI.
Actually at this point, I wouldn't mind either school. We'd probably recruit Indy and Fort Wayne better with both schools being a road stop there.
I still like the idea of creating a mid-major super conference with the likes of UNI, SDSU, Wichita State (that'd be tough), Evansville, maybe Oakland...
It's only a pipe-dream at this point but one can dream
How pissed would the other universities be to lose Valpo and add IPFW. Just as we would be pissed to lose another conference member to later add one of the alphabet schools we thought we were distancing ourselves from.
Quote from: hailcrusaders on March 29, 2016, 04:40:49 PMI still like the idea of creating a mid-major super conference with the likes of UNI, SDSU, Wichita State (that'd be tough), Evansville, maybe Oakland... It's only a pipe-dream at this point but one can dream
Not Oakland! I'm exhausted by them. So much hype, probably more espn coverage than us and their push for the conference tourney to be in Detroit. I still don't understand how they have so much pull and LeCrone's ear.
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 29, 2016, 10:47:09 PMQuote from: hailcrusaders on March 29, 2016, 04:40:49 PMI still like the idea of creating a mid-major super conference with the likes of UNI, SDSU, Wichita State (that'd be tough), Evansville, maybe Oakland... It's only a pipe-dream at this point but one can dream
Not Oakland! I'm exhausted by them. So much hype, probably more espn coverage than us and their push for the conference tourney to be in Detroit. I still don't understand how they have so much pool and LeCrone's ear.
I was just spitballing on potential members with winning programs located in the Midwest. Oakland annoys me just as much. But they'd have no LeCrone in their bed!
The reason the city of Chicago is building the arena is DePaul is fronting half the cost, same reason for Depaul as the city picks up half the tab. The only thing DePaul gets is naming rights (good luck with that) and concessions during games. Still the city could more with a $100MM than build another arena. They, DePaul administration, think they're going to sell these luxury suites to corporate buyers. Working for a large international corporation in the heart of downtown Chicago, I can say this, many corporations are giving up their tickets to Cubs, Bears, Bulls and Blackhawks games as the costs associated outweigh the business benefits.
Does everyone remember how vocal and aggressive Oakland was about getting out of the Summit for the HL? It was clear to everyone and I wish our administration did the same.
Some of you keep jumping on the Wichita St. bandwagon, but I don't see WSU being anything worth talking about in the next couple of years. With Baker, Van Vleet, and the FINAL FOUR class having finished their careers, what do the Shockers have that screams them leaving the MVC? I just don't see anyone stepping in to make WSU have a better next four years than the FINAL FOUR class had.
Also, I don't see a conference that is a stronger financial fit for all of our teams than the bus league HORIZON LEAGUE. What other Valpo teams do we have that make the university need to pull the trigger to find a better conference for the sake of our RPI and record in Men's Basketball? I just don't see any good financial fits that save money on travel for all of our Jon-revenue generating teams.
Quote from: valporun on April 03, 2016, 11:13:01 AM
Some of you keep jumping on the Wichita St. bandwagon, but I don't see WSU being anything worth talking about in the next couple of years. With Baker, Van Vleet, and the FINAL FOUR class having finished their careers, what do the Shockers have that screams them leaving the MVC? I just don't see anyone stepping in to make WSU have a better next four years than the FINAL FOUR class had.
Also, I don't see a conference that is a stronger financial fit for all of our teams than the bus league HORIZON LEAGUE. What other Valpo teams do we have that make the university need to pull the trigger to find a better conference for the sake of our RPI and record in Men's Basketball? I just don't see any good financial fits that save money on travel for all of our Jon-revenue generating teams.
You are no doubt correct about this. However, Men's basketball is the straw that stirs the drink, ask Butler, whose other teams are no better and mostly worse than ours, or even a better and more crazy example like Creighton.
Right on VU72. I've been a big believer that we should seek membership in the MVC. It took us a 3-4 years before we were competitive but as of now we are the leaders of the HL in MBB (the sport that gives us most name recognition). Now imagine if we did the same higher up on the latter in the MVC. That's the positive and the negative is that MVC is a little more travel than the HL. We wouldn't want what has happened to Creighton in the BE. They had a little run in the MVC similar to us in the HL except they won NCAAT games. But i'm only looking at conference performance. They graduated several studs and have not been competitive in the their new league. This can very easily happen to us, graduate Vashil and Carter then Alec. So Creighton finds themselves traveling all over the place in all their sports just because they wanted a better league, and they are not competitive in that league
comparing productivity within each respected conference. They controlled their conference MVC just as Valpo has controlled their conference HL. Difference is the occ and NCAAT but I was only talking about conference performance.
Creighton was 9-9 this year
Creighton was 4-14 last year
Creighton was 14-4 first year of the BE
So they are .500.
run - let's be serious. If Valpo gets an opportunity to join the MVC it is a no brainer that we should join. It is a significantly better league than the Horizon, which I think is on the downward trend. Regarding travels finances, I think that is something Valpo can accommodate.
Quote from: valporun on April 03, 2016, 11:13:01 AM
Some of you keep jumping on the Wichita St. bandwagon, but I don't see WSU being anything worth talking about in the next couple of years. With Baker, Van Vleet, and the FINAL FOUR class having finished their careers, what do the Shockers have that screams them leaving the MVC? I just don't see anyone stepping in to make WSU have a better next four years than the FINAL FOUR class had.
Ok I'm a shocker fan lurking cause Vandy fans are annoying and I hope they don't get Drew.
Regarding WSU. This was their 5th straight NCAA, they were a 5 seed the year before the final four team and won the NIT the year before that. Won 4 out of last 5 MVC season titles. Only year it took away leagues auto bid they were a 1 seed so pretty sure they didn't need auto any of 5 years. They have won 25 or more games 7 straight seasons. Marshall makes 3.2 mil and it bumps to 3.5 mil a year in 2018. Basketball budget is north of 6 mil now, have I don't know how many straight years of selling out Koch arena (10,500). Pretty dang good team lined up next year as well, 4star/ MVC freshman of the year mcduffle. 4 star SG who looked better than Mcduffie but got hurt and redshirted last year Shamet. Redshirt Texas a&am transfer Peyton Allen, A juco top 10 recruit PF who averaged 18/10, and plenty of juniors to be who all played a ton of minutes and contributed. Point being is Ron baker Fred van vleet was special but WSU was winning before them and Marshall has this thing rolling. WSU had a final 4, Elite 8, and sweet 16 all in different decades before Marshall was around so it has proven it can succeed over the long haul. The 90's really hurt WSU bad but the last 15 years have really been solid under Turguen and Marshall.
UNI pays Jacobson 1.2 mil I think and as long as he stays they will usuall be good as well.
Anyways that was long winded and I don't make a habit to post on other peoples forums. I wouldn't mind Valpo, wish it was u guys instead of Loyola, 20/20 I guess.
Quote from: bsmith21 on April 03, 2016, 09:43:07 PMQuote from: oklahomamick on April 03, 2016, 08:57:13 PMcomparing productivity within each respected conference. They controlled their conference MVC just as Valpo has controlled their conference HL. Difference is the occ and NCAAT but I was only talking about conference performance. Creighton was 9-9 this year Creighton was 4-14 last year Creighton was 14-4 first year of the BE So they are .500.
I'm not saying that they are doing as good as they would've had they still been in the MVC but I would argue that they are competitive
I understand and my point was that we move to the MVC and we are competitive but not winning league championships like we were in the HL. Would we be okay with that?
absolutely! competing in the MVC is more challenging that the Horizon, which I think has weak leadership and may be on the downslide. I think if Valpo competes well in the MVC, the goal the winning a championship has more significance than winning every year in the Horizon over weaker competition. Valpo fans with the understanding of sport and strong competition will understand that.
I don't understanding the reasoning why it would be better for Valpo to stay in the Horizon. I think the right attitude is to grow and get better, and the MVC provides an opportunity for that.
Regarding conference changing, timing is everything. Butler and Creighton moved to the big East while losing valuable pieces (star players, coaches) while Xavier made it while they had a core of great young talent. Xavier moved and had immediate success while Butler and Creighton Both slightly struggled initially but seem to have it figured out now. Moving into the bigger leagues mean bigger financial commitment so thatd be priority #1 for valpo. Stability at coaching position would be nice as well, and #2, but that is difficult to do as a mid major. #3 ideally, you have great young talent so you give yourself 2 to 3 years to recruit better talent/build depth without losing much instead of being behind the 8 ball from the get go. Success breeds success. If you finish 3 or 4 in the MVC you can still get dancing and get NCAAT money, whereas we all know what we need to do staying in the HL.
Quote from: oklahomamick on April 04, 2016, 06:36:12 AM
Quote from: bsmith21 on April 03, 2016, 09:43:07 PMQuote from: oklahomamick on April 03, 2016, 08:57:13 PMcomparing productivity within each respected conference. They controlled their conference MVC just as Valpo has controlled their conference HL. Difference is the occ and NCAAT but I was only talking about conference performance. Creighton was 9-9 this year Creighton was 4-14 last year Creighton was 14-4 first year of the BE So they are .500.
I'm not saying that they are doing as good as they would've had they still been in the MVC but I would argue that they are competitive
I understand and my point was that we move to the MVC and we are competitive but not winning league championships like we were in the HL. Would we be okay with that?
And it is a valid point. We bitch about being a big fish in a small pond and that the pond is restricting us, but we are an auto bid away from the NCAAT pretty much every year now. If the wished-for alignment of stars would occur and we were to receive and accept an invite to the MVC, we would have a lesser chance of getting a title (or an at-large), IMO, than if we stayed in th HL. Would we be content with being #3-#5 most of the time with an occasional run at the top in what for us would be breakthrough years? We certainly can't match the WSU and NIU BB budgets and facilities and the revenue that comes with them. We also might have an unequal playing field in admission standards to overcome (we have that in the HL, but the other two factors are not as big) in getting more of the next level of players. Ta Town gave us some WSU perspective -- they are just reloading next year. Success breeds success. We've experienced that in the HL, but replicating that in the MVC will take a major and immediate upswing in effort, investment and commitment. I'm not sure the administration is willing to go that route and stay that course over time.
Quote from: elephtheria47 on April 04, 2016, 07:42:18 AMIf you finish 3 or 4 in the MVC you can still get dancing and get NCAAT money, whereas we all know what we need to do staying in the HL.
Evansville was 2nd in MVC and didn't play in the post season anywhere.
Illinois State was 3rd in MVC and didn't play in the post season anywhere
Southern Illinois-Carbondale was 4th in MVC and didn't play in the post season anywhere
Northern Iowa was 5th in MVC at 23-13 won the Arch Madness in St Louis and upset Texas in the first round of the NCAA tournament. Some teams in the MVC have performed well (Wichita State and Northern Iowa) but just finishing 3rd or 4th in the MVC does not guarantee anything.
Precisely. Perhaps the HL, despite its issues and our concerns, still might be our best option.
The HL would be a great option if it was more like the league that we entered as. It seemed UWM, Detroit, WSU were all better programs at that time. The tournament was being held on campuses. Much much better league back then, even when Butler wasn't winning the league and producing NCAAT (last two years of their membership) it was a much much better league.
Face it - the current configuration is a modern version of the old, old Mid-Continent Conference circa early 1990s.
Valpo, UIC, Green Bay, Milwaukee, Wright State, Cleveland State and Youngstown - all good old Mid-Con members and even a few Association of Mid-Continent Universities originals.
Oakland joined the Mid-Con when it first joined Division I in the 1998-99 range.
Detroit - can't remember if the Titans were ever in the league but VU played them in the late 80s, early 90s.
Northern Kentucky - a new version of Western Illinois?
Heck, that's all we're missing is Western Illinois and it's not far off from the Mid-Con of the early 90s.
Let's just go back to the Mark of the Quad Cities for the conference tournament!
I think the formula to getting into a better (multi-bid) conference is "simple".
-First and foremost we has to keep winning and pray we hold onto Bryce for another year or two (looking less likely).
-A big second is that we need MUCH better facilities. I love the ARC for all its character and its a really fun place to watch games but its a joke when conference exc's, other coaches, and recruits come to visit. We need a new building and leave the ARC as a intramural sports center for students.
-I know my third point is already in the process, but increasing the student body population. I forget what the University's student body population target # is for the future but the plan is to grow. That has more to do with the macro-college landscape to help reduce costs and tuition, for the long-term health of the university more then anything. But an increasing to the student body would help increase attendance to games which would be much more appealing to larger conferences.
-Another factor that the MVC, A-10 and Big East (never going to happen unless Valpo really grows) is the TV ratings. Valpo doesn't have the huge draw for the area in terms of TV ratings. It compete's with ND, IU, Purdue, etc. for fanbase and eyeballs. We'll never win that battle, but we can chip away at it if we somehow become a true Mid-Major powerhouse that is a perennial NCAA conference bid team and make a ton of deep runs in the Tourney like WSU, Dayton and Creighton has and our marketing department can create a brand of "Northwestern Indiana's College Basketball team".
Just a couple of my thoughts. I know some of my suggestion maybe a little out there but a fan can dream.
Quote from: oklahomamick on April 04, 2016, 09:06:25 AM
The HL would be a great option if it was more like the league that we entered as. It seemed UWM, Detroit, WSU were all better programs at that time. The tournament was being held on campuses. Much much better league back then, even when Butler wasn't winning the league and producing NCAAT (last two years of their membership) it was a much much better league.
The league across the board had a recruiting boost from Butler's/the Horizon's tournament success. Recruiting across the board was better than the MAC, Summit, OVC, etc. The league was still good when Butler had their down year before moving to the A10 and the few years after. Once the NCAA tournament wins dried up (due to poor seeds, sending the "wrong" team, etc), recruiting dried up. The all-freshman team was a joke this year, which is really sad since younger players have had opportunities with the amount of bottom dwelling teams in the league. I thought last year's freshman class was also weak.
Getting fresh coaching talent is important to the success of the league. Bannen and McClain have actually recruited pretty well in their first year. I would imagine Nagy would be a better recruiter than Donlon (which is not saying much). The league can definitely turn around, but there's going to be some growing pains along the way.
McClain has actually recruited extremely well. UIC will be a force in the HL with this years recruiting class. McClain has always been a lights out recruiter. I don't want to be rude but I don't think he's anything close to an elite X's & O's coach. If McClain lands Marcus Ottey (Canadian guard) then that team will probably be a top the Horizon in a year or two. Ottey actually has an offer from Valpo but he eliminated us already. I actually think he's going UIC because his teammate just signed with UIC and their in his top 3. Ottey has the makings of kahlil felder 2.0.
McClain is a good recruiter. I wonder how he does it.....
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With Bryce leaving let's stay in the HL for a little bit longer. Don't need a new coach and a new league. That doesn't sound fun to me.
agree, we now have other problems besides our conference affiliation.
Now with most of the coaching situation solved, this conference switch talk is amusing but not practical. First of all, this discussion only points out mens basketball. Yes, that is where the revenue and a lot of interest comes from but there are 16 other sports that Valpo has to consider in the Horizon League. We are competitive in several, not competitve in several others, and aside from mens basketball, we are only the best in mens tennis this year. In fact, top to bottom, Oakland dominates the league when all sports are considered-think McCafferty Trophy. Valpo is perfectly situated geographically within the Horizon League. Sending our non revenue sports to the East Coast for almost every match is not going to happen. We don't offer the same number of scholarships for the other sports as most of the other schools so that would have to change. And how about academic standards? I would much rather have our current model where all of our students can read their diplomas. We compete very well in the game of scholar athletes but imagine being the smallest university already, then needing to bring on average students who may be better athletes. Which brings us to size-President Heckler came in and rather quickly talked about doubling the size of VU from 4,000 to 8,000 and just as quickly reduced that goal to 6,000. Now with the Law school enrollment plummeting, international students declining, student debt and default at unsustainable levels nationwide, we are happy to keep present levels and quality. Don't forget a budget deficit recently of 3 plus million and staff cuts. I know this doesn't fit in with the sexy talk of conference upgrades but I just wanted to bring in the reality of more than just mens basketball. All that being said, I think a move to the Missouri Valley would be attractive and with that upgrade comes better recruits and better results. Thanks for listening.
Valpo had a budget deficit of $3m recently?
Quote from: valpotx on April 10, 2016, 11:33:35 PM
Valpo had a budget deficit of $3m recently?
I believe the number only goes red once you account for depreciation of buildings. But, yes, the number was something like that. It's meant to be about zero for the upcoming year.
Somewhat hesitant to post this here because it's message board banter (but hey what are these boards for?), but an interesting comment was made by one of their posters on the NMSU board regarding HL "interest" in the Aggies:
http://www.scout.com/college/new-mexico-state/forums/2377-sports-trough/14678495-wac-still-looks-at-10-teams
Given how geographically compact the HL is, any "interest" seems odd to me. I can see "interest" by the Summit for sure, but not the HL, at least as a stand alone school.
I like the 'unknown schools' comment tied to the HL
Their moaning about their commissioner has been copied and pasted from our board. Couldn't they be a bit more original?
Wichita St. has gone public in their interest in the MWC. WSU wants to fund football (ask New Mexico St and Idaho for advice) and join the MWC. The MWC has 12 football schools right now with an option to add New Mexico St. and Idaho if they wanted. Don't think the MWC wants either so why would they want a new program in Wichita St? Is WSU basketball program attractive enough for the MWC to warrant a new football program?
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/dennis-dodd/25576548/wichita-state-interested-in-joining-mountain-west-may-bring-back-football (http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/dennis-dodd/25576548/wichita-state-interested-in-joining-mountain-west-may-bring-back-football)
The Big12 is also rumored to add two programs. http://www.vanquishthefoe.com/2016/5/3/11576606/byu-football-big-12-expansion-texas-tcu-memphis (http://www.vanquishthefoe.com/2016/5/3/11576606/byu-football-big-12-expansion-texas-tcu-memphis) Like them or not, options are Memphis, Cincinnati, BYU, Boise St. Houston. I don't know how this would effect the HL. Maybe a domino effect where the American Conference takes one or Wichita St. or a A10 school in which forces the A10 to take one or two. Who knows.
Would be nice to have a Big East type of league with the smaller players. Something more similar to the Big West. Valpo, Detroit, Belmont, Evansville, SLU, Loyola, Drake, Oral Roberts.
Quote from: oklahomamick on May 04, 2016, 10:11:55 AMThe Big12 is also rumored to add two programs. http://www.vanquishthefoe.com/2016/5/3/11576606/byu-football-big-12-expansion-texas-tcu-memphis Like them or not, options are Memphis, Cincinnati, BYU, Boise St. Houston.
If the Big12 is serious about football, they need at least twelve teams for a Big12 Championship Game. If they want to increase their footprint, everyone but Houston would be a good choice.
Quote from: oklahomamick on May 04, 2016, 10:11:55 AMThe Big12 is also rumored to add two programs. http://www.vanquishthefoe.com/2016/5/3/11576606/byu-football-big-12-expansion-texas-tcu-memphis
Yesterday, Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby, ahead of some significant league meetings, told reporters that the consultants the league hired determined that a 12-team conference with eight conference games gives the Big 12 the best chance at making the College Football Playoff.
https://twitter.com/ChuckCarltonDMN/status/727237743386853376?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Said consultancy came up with an oddly specific number as well:
How this group managed to come up with exactly 4-5%, given that we have a sample size of exactly two, based on the subjective opinions of a dozen or so people on a secret ballot...well, that's beyond me. That's why I am a humble writer, and not a high-paid college football consultant. SBNation.com wrote a little bit this morning about why trying to assign some statistical probability to this feels pretty silly, and I have to admit, I agree.
You have got to be kidding me! Can anyone with half a brain send an invoice to Bowlsby to collect their consultancy fee? Sounds more like Bowlsby was buying drinks for a couple of friends. Or strangers.
If the Wichita St. leaves the MVC, I'm not sure I would want Valpo to leave the HL for MVC if we got an invite. It's conference is already watered down with Creighton leaving and with WSU leaving it would look worse. I'm not sure its realistic but the A-10 invite would be the absolute best situation for Valpo. I don't think it's going to happen though.
I sort of wish the we could form our own conference with other schools and make a junior Big East type mid-major conference with midwestern mid-major power houses.
Quote from: VU2014 on May 04, 2016, 11:54:26 AM
If the Wichita St. leaves the MVC, I'm not sure I would want Valpo to leave the HL for MVC if we got an invite. It's conference is already watered down with Creighton leaving and with WSU leaving it would look worse. I'm not sure its realistic but the A-10 invite would be the absolute best situation for Valpo. I don't think it's going to happen though.
I sort of wish the we could form our own conference with other schools and make a junior Big East type mid-major conference with midwestern mid-major power houses.
Agreed.
The MVC is geographically viable (wouldn't need to double our budget just for travel), and contains schools with much bigger budgets than the Horizon. Valpo to the MVC is a no brainier for us; I'm not sure if it's a no brainer for them.
Unfortunately in the current college athletics landscape biggest factor in getting an invite to a larger conference has to being in a particular geographical region and trying to tap that region for viewers for TV contract ratings. NWI is about 823,388-1M roughly (depending on how many counties decide to include as "Northwest-Indiana"), plus the population of NWI is shrinking (even though Valpo is growing from what I've heard). Also Indiana is a pretty unique midwestern state that it has 2 Big Ten teams and Notre Dame as a powerhouse in sports that will always remain king in terms of media attention and viewership/fan loyalty. It's just tough for Valpo to gain traction, unless Valpo went on a historic Butler like run and forces attention and viewership on the program.
Horizon League part of NMSU survey?
http://www.lcsun-news.com/story/sports/college/blogs/cruces-sports-extra/2016/05/04/nmsu-survey-regarding-conference-alignment-horizon-league/83937868/
Seriously, we got relegated to the 'others' portion of the statement speaking about the HL, when we are really the only team with national name recognition? The HL is like the WAC? What interesting comments!
The Horizon League is in conversations with NMSU????? ??? ???
Will NMSU be covering the bill for all the non-bread winning sports to fly all the way out there? That is a ton of travel expenses. I could see adding east coast team or two but it never crossed my mind that a team that far away could possibly join the conference.
They'd be the only FBS football school in the HL -- unless they drop down to FCS (doubtful). They'll keep football.
Quote from: crusaderjoe on May 04, 2016, 06:42:31 PM
Horizon League part of NMSU survey?
http://www.lcsun-news.com/story/sports/college/blogs/cruces-sports-extra/2016/05/04/nmsu-survey-regarding-conference-alignment-horizon-league/83937868/
I don't see this happening. NMSU needs to perform a very real assessment of their athletic department, and the commitment needed to perform/play at the FBS level. Only 3 winning seasons in the last 40? They need to move to the Big Sky, and fully commit to FCS football. The HL and FBS Independent is not a real option.
If I were NMSU, I'd downgrade to FCS and go Big Sky along with Idaho.
Quote from: VULB#62 on May 05, 2016, 10:43:31 AM
If I were NMSU, I'd downgrade to FCS and go Big Sky along with Idaho.
NMSU staying at FBS:
http://www.lcsun-news.com/story/sports/college/nmsu/2016/05/05/chair-nmsu-football-staying-course-fbs/83978532/
I wonder if the Big Sky will let them place their oly sports there without football. My guess is "no" since they gave Idaho an ultimatum. Plus, there's the baseball issue, too. The Big Sky doesn't sponsor baseball. Where would NMSU baseball go? Summit affiliate? HL affiliate? They wouldn't leave the WAC for all sports except baseball.
Why is everything so complicated? >:(
Are you sure they are talking about NMSU - New Mexico State University and not Northern Michigan State University? They heard the conference tourney was in Detroit.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChyNYlcWUAAvWtO.jpg)
Quote from: oklahomamick on May 06, 2016, 02:37:13 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChyNYlcWUAAvWtO.jpg)
Gross
What's an Exapansion?
It kind of looks like the Mid-Con and NSMU subbed in for Southern Utah.
Time for the best MVC and the best Horizon to partner up.
Obviously we don't really know the level of "interest" that the HL has with NMSU and vice versa, but I gotta say you know, I'm starting to warm to the possibility of an NMSU add. I think it could work so long as two understandings are in place from the beginning: 1) that everyone understands that an NMSU add is a short or medium term addition in that once they get the call from an FBS conference for all sports, they are gone; and 2) that the HL add no one else in the west with them--for now. Forget travel partners. See #1 above on why.
NMSU brings some benefits. Very solid basketball--they will not be an RPI drain and should help IMO. Most likely better weather for baseball and softball. Expansion of the HL geographical footprint, which, IMO is a good thing. You can't get too conservative with geographical compactness--see the SWC for guidance in that respect. Put travel subs in place. Travel of course is the elephant in the room but I don't see it as being that terrible for Valpo at any rate. I mean if we're going to cry about having some (note some, not all) of our teams having to travel once a year to Las Cruces, then maybe we shouldn't be D-I. National travel sometimes comes with D-I territory. It's not like Valpo hasn't traveled west before for a conference game either. Southern Utah is holding on line #2 in case anyone has forgotten.
I'm starting to become intrigued by this. An FBS member joining a league like the HL wouldn't be unheard of...BYU, UMass and Hawaii as FBS members have this oly arrangement currently. It could work, maybe.
Quote from: oklahomamick on May 05, 2016, 08:15:37 PM
Are you sure they are talking about NMSU - New Mexico State University and not Northern Michigan State University? They heard the conference tourney was in Detroit.
Northern Michigan is in Marquette, MI over 450 miles from Detroit. Valpo, UIC and Milwaukee are all closer to Detroit than NMU. Green Bay and Marquette, MI are 180 miles apart.