12/8 Valpo v. New Mexico

[valpopal]

Unbelievable: Valpo loses to a top-20 team in front of 16,000 fans on their court, and a few people here are panicked. The team stats are respectable, shooting about 50% from the field and 45% from the 3-point line, and rebounding was almost even. The difference was turnovers plus fouls, many of which resulted from the turnovers. I don't know what everyone expected, but I called it a 12-point loss in my prediction, which is what it would have been if Buggs hadn't given that last second foul. Valpo is not a top-20 team, but we will be in contention for the Horizon League championship, which is the main goal, and I don't expect to see 23 turnovers in conference games.

As I mentioned in my predictions, the week-long final exams break will be welcome, hopefully allowing players to get healthy and Dority to join the team. The span of games after finals and before the New Year will be a transition period preparing for conference play, and the real season begins with the first conference game in January. I expected nothing more nor less. In fact, the team's won-lost record at this point is exactly as I expected. Would I have liked a big upset? Sure. But realistically this team is focused on getting to the NCAA tournament through a regular season and conference tournament title, and they are still on track at this point.

You must like watching valpo play in the CBI tournament, because one loss in the conferance tourney and that's where we will be. Its not the fact that we lost to a ranked opponent. It the fact that we looked like a bad basketball team.

Exactly, one loss in the conference tournament and we don't go to the NCAA tournament, which would be true no matter what happened tonight or in any game this season! That is the realistic view. Despite a below par performance, Valpo shot better than New Mexico in field goals and 3-point shots, just about tied on rebounds, and tied on fast break points and second-chance points; but our weakness was on turnovers and foul calls, which created a 12-point difference, just about the final spread in the game. If we really were a bad basketball team, a top-20 team would have dominated all those stats.

[StlVUFan]

Unbelievable: Valpo loses to a top-20 team in front of 16,000 fans on their court, and a few people here are panicked. The team stats are respectable, shooting about 50% from the field and 45% from the 3-point line, and rebounding was almost even. The difference was turnovers plus fouls, many of which resulted from the turnovers. I don't know what everyone expected, but I called it a 12-point loss in my prediction, which is what it would have been if Buggs hadn't given that last second foul. Valpo is not a top-20 team, but we will be in contention for the Horizon League championship, which is the main goal, and I don't expect to see 23 turnovers in conference games.

As I mentioned in my predictions, the week-long final exams break will be welcome, hopefully allowing players to get healthy and Dority to join the team. The span of games after finals and before the New Year will be a transition period preparing for conference play, and the real season begins with the first conference game in January. I expected nothing more nor less. In fact, the team's won-lost record at this point is exactly as I expected. Would I have liked a big upset? Sure. But realistically this team is focused on getting to the NCAA tournament through a regular season and conference tournament title, and they are still on track at this point.

You must like watching valpo play in the CBI tournament, because one loss in the conferance tourney and that's where we will be. Its not the fact that we lost to a ranked opponent. It the fact that we looked like a bad basketball team.

Exactly no one here, least of all valpopal, likes watching Valpo playing in the CBI tournament, or even the NIT tournament.  No one yearns more for an upset over a ranked team than me.  I take a backseat to absolutely no one.

If our way of dealing with such disappointment disappoints you, that's too bad.  Speaking only for myself, I'm too busy watching this season unfold (as I try to do every season) to feel embarrassed about it.  I heard every unforced error (I even saw one or two in the GIF-like video stream I saw of the 2nd half, but that's another story), and am happy with exactly none of them.

But, since I'm not the center of the Valpo universe, I see no usefulness in ranting about how awful we are, as if I'm owed something.  I prefer to enjoy whatever I can get from the sport of Mid-Major, under-the-radar College Basketball, seeing players trying to deal with a multitude of challenges that are thrust upon them, all while going to class and earning a degree, which at the Mid-Major level I do *not* believe is a farcical idea.  I thrill at the victories and feel anguish at the defeats, but I consider all of it a gift.

Sorry for the rant.  That's just me, but I'm with valpopal and therefore presumed to feel that retort was aimed at me as well.  I don't expect you to see it the same way, of course.

[milanmiracle]

Unbelievable: Valpo loses to a top-20 team in front of 16,000 fans on their court, and a few people here are panicked. The team stats are respectable, shooting about 50% from the field and 45% from the 3-point line, and rebounding was almost even. The difference was turnovers plus fouls, many of which resulted from the turnovers. I don't know what everyone expected, but I called it a 12-point loss in my prediction, which is what it would have been if Buggs hadn't given that last second foul. Valpo is not a top-20 team, but we will be in contention for the Horizon League championship, which is the main goal, and I don't expect to see 23 turnovers in conference games.

As I mentioned in my predictions, the week-long final exams break will be welcome, hopefully allowing players to get healthy and Dority to join the team. The span of games after finals and before the New Year will be a transition period preparing for conference play, and the real season begins with the first conference game in January. I expected nothing more nor less. In fact, the team's won-lost record at this point is exactly as I expected. Would I have liked a big upset? Sure. But realistically this team is focused on getting to the NCAA tournament through a regular season and conference tournament title, and they are still on track at this point.

You must like watching valpo play in the CBI tournament, because one loss in the conferance tourney and that's where we will be. Its not the fact that we lost to a ranked opponent. It the fact that we looked like a bad basketball team.

Yep, I said as much before the season ever started...this entire year comes down to the HL tournament. Even then, who knows. You would think that winning the conference and playing the championship game on your home court would get you to the dance. We all know how that turned out.

This team is good enough to beat average to bad mid majors, but that's about it. The best win is over Kent State (RPI 149) and the lossess are vs. 79, 52, 5. They have managed to beat 241,308, 334, 281, 278 however. They're a team that beats who they are supposed to beat, and will put up a good record because of a crappy schedule but that's about it. There's only one more chance to beat a decent team (Murray State), and then the conference games begin. UIC has an RPI of 40, so that might help but...since they're a conference opponent, it's not really the same.

[milanmiracle]

Fellas, we're just not gonna have the kind of year we were expecting/hoping for.

Paul

I am starting to accept this... But I would just like to see an upset.   

We just look lost out there.   This many seniors should not turnover the ball this much.   also, other players need to step up - Ryan's back has got to be getting sore from carrying the team.

My hat's off to Ryan for tonight. He hasn't played well in the last couple of "big" games, so it was nice to see him carry Valpo tonight. He didn't have any help, but maybe that will be the spark he needs for the HL tournament. He's going to have to carry them there too.

[milanmiracle]

Unbelievable: Valpo loses to a top-20 team in front of 16,000 fans on their court, and a few people here are panicked. The team stats are respectable, shooting about 50% from the field and 45% from the 3-point line, and rebounding was almost even. The difference was turnovers plus fouls, many of which resulted from the turnovers. I don't know what everyone expected, but I called it a 12-point loss in my prediction, which is what it would have been if Buggs hadn't given that last second foul. Valpo is not a top-20 team, but we will be in contention for the Horizon League championship, which is the main goal, and I don't expect to see 23 turnovers in conference games.

As I mentioned in my predictions, the week-long final exams break will be welcome, hopefully allowing players to get healthy and Dority to join the team. The span of games after finals and before the New Year will be a transition period preparing for conference play, and the real season begins with the first conference game in January. I expected nothing more nor less. In fact, the team's won-lost record at this point is exactly as I expected. Would I have liked a big upset? Sure. But realistically this team is focused on getting to the NCAA tournament through a regular season and conference tournament title, and they are still on track at this point.

You must like watching valpo play in the CBI tournament, because one loss in the conferance tourney and that's where we will be. Its not the fact that we lost to a ranked opponent. It the fact that we looked like a bad basketball team.

Exactly, one loss in the conference tournament and we don't go to the NCAA tournament, which would be true no matter what happened tonight or in any game this season! That is the realistic view. Despite a below par performance, Valpo shot better than New Mexico in field goals and 3-point shots, just about tied on rebounds, and tied on fast break points and second-chance points; but our weakness was on turnovers and foul calls, which created a 12-point difference, just about the final spread in the game. If we really were a bad basketball team, a top-20 team would have dominated all those stats.

Wasn't it pointed out earlier that New Mexico doesn't blow people out?

[valpopal]

Fellas, we're just not gonna have the kind of year we were expecting/hoping for.

Paul

Not sure what everyone else was expecting, but this is exactly what I expected up to this point—losses to Nebraska, St. Louis, and New Mexico on their courts, wins in the other games, and I am still hoping for a 10-4 record by January, though I'd be satisfied with 9-5, plus a conference title. So far, nothing is different from what I expected in my preseason predictions (except that Bobby had surgery and Ryan has Mono). 

[valpopal]

Unbelievable: Valpo loses to a top-20 team in front of 16,000 fans on their court, and a few people here are panicked. The team stats are respectable, shooting about 50% from the field and 45% from the 3-point line, and rebounding was almost even. The difference was turnovers plus fouls, many of which resulted from the turnovers. I don't know what everyone expected, but I called it a 12-point loss in my prediction, which is what it would have been if Buggs hadn't given that last second foul. Valpo is not a top-20 team, but we will be in contention for the Horizon League championship, which is the main goal, and I don't expect to see 23 turnovers in conference games.

As I mentioned in my predictions, the week-long final exams break will be welcome, hopefully allowing players to get healthy and Dority to join the team. The span of games after finals and before the New Year will be a transition period preparing for conference play, and the real season begins with the first conference game in January. I expected nothing more nor less. In fact, the team's won-lost record at this point is exactly as I expected. Would I have liked a big upset? Sure. But realistically this team is focused on getting to the NCAA tournament through a regular season and conference tournament title, and they are still on track at this point.

You must like watching valpo play in the CBI tournament, because one loss in the conferance tourney and that's where we will be. Its not the fact that we lost to a ranked opponent. It the fact that we looked like a bad basketball team.

Exactly, one loss in the conference tournament and we don't go to the NCAA tournament, which would be true no matter what happened tonight or in any game this season! That is the realistic view. Despite a below par performance, Valpo shot better than New Mexico in field goals and 3-point shots, just about tied on rebounds, and tied on fast break points and second-chance points; but our weakness was on turnovers and foul calls, which created a 12-point difference, just about the final spread in the game. If we really were a bad basketball team, a top-20 team would have dominated all those stats.

Wasn't it pointed out earlier that New Mexico doesn't blow people out?

Yes, which is why I pointed to dominating the "stats", as the quote you highlighted clearly states.

[Smj]

Not sure what everyone else was expecting, but this is exactly what I expected up to this point—losses to Nebraska, St. Louis, and New Mexico on their courts, wins in the other games, and I am still hoping for a 10-4 record by January, though I'd be satisfied with 9-5, plus a conference title. So far, nothing is different from what I expected in my preseason predictions (except that Bobby had surgery and Ryan has Mono). 

I guess I just thought we would look a "bit" more polished as a team.   Lots of experience so I wanted to see us pull out a big win - like a bunch of other HL teams have.   Kent game was a bit of a fluke - great game to watch but we really got lucky.   If we had beat Nebraska I would probably feel different now but it is hard cuz I really want to see them do well ....   But I am DEFINITELY NOT embarrassed by this loss....

[atkins]

This game was actually closer than I had predicted.  I had Valpo losing by 20.  Valpo's shooting kept it in the game.  But giving up so many turnovers is just unacceptable for a senior-laden lineup.  I tend to agree with the posters who have expressed disappointment at Valpo's effort and progress this year.  They really aren't that much better than last year, and at times they have played much worse.  It is really perplexing how the team has appeared to regress.

We'll likely have a good Horizon season.  If we're "on" during the tournament, we will win it and get a 14 seed tops.  Then, we will be blown out in our first game.  Washed, rinsed, and repeated. 

I am looking forward to the new class of recruits, and hopefully, they will have the fire in their eyes.  They will, however, also need some help inside, and right now, we have very little to offer them. 

[rink]

Ah, more irrelevance. Just five more years and we'll reach two straight decades of NCAA nothingness. Good times. Heaven forbid that a few devoted posters express a tiny bit of impatience. I guess we all deal with disappointment differently, but my god, it's been year after year after decade after year after year of our program failing to do anything nationally recognizable as impressive. We've had the opportunities. We've had the talent. At some point it gets to be insufferable, no? Unless your aspirations are only for the mild satisfactions of modest, anonymous successes.

It would be refreshing to hear all of Valpo nation rise up and exclaim, When are we going to bleeping take advantage of one of these opportunities to reclaim some attention?

[truth219]

You have to have lowered expectations

[StlVUFan]

Heaven forbid that a few devoted posters express a tiny bit of impatience.

Nobody is forbidding any such thing.  It was one of these few "devoted posters" you cited who disparaged those of us who deal with disappointment differently.

I have no problem with you feeling the way you do about it, but try to tell me what I'm "happy with" and I'm going to correct you.  That's all.

[valpopal]

You have to have lowered expectations

You have to know the difference between "hopes" and "expectations."

[VULB#62]

 

Can we get past this and move on?  Missouri State is next -- they're 2-7 and have played an interesting mix of non names and big names.  Nuther road game.  We gonna finally snap out of this road rut? Maybe someone needs to start a fresh string.

[milanmiracle]

You have to have lowered expectations

You have to know the difference between "hopes" and "expectations."

This is way off topic, but here goes...

We have people all over the map on here with hopes and expectations. There were posts earlier saying this could be the best Valpo team ever, and there are yet others who don't think they'll make the tournament. I think most people expect them to win 20 games, and finish in the top half of the conference. After that, opinions vary wildly.

My issue with this team is they're maddingly consistent. They beat who we think they can, and lose to those teams they should. There's no real hope for doing something great...like going to the Sweet 16.

That being said, sometimes I think we overlook the facts of Valpo basketball. They had one year of NCAA success and it took an Indiana Mr. Basketball and future NBA player to do it. Since then, it's been one and done (if at all) in the NCAA tourney and blowout losses to higher seeds. The last BCS win was over Washington in some made up post season tournament. Prior to that...who knows?

I hope they have a run in them like Butler, but I expect them to lose in the HL tournament and go to either the NIT or CBI. The only saving grace is the rest of the HL is pretty bad, so there's a chance for 1 or 2 seed. They coudn't possibly lose on their home floor twice, could they? In short, those are my hopes and expectations.

[Smj]

You have to have lowered expectations

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=bHq12lIYJME&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DbHq12lIYJME

[crusaderjoe]

I admit it--I thought this team could be one of the best VU has had over the last 25 years.  I'm not one to get overzealous about expectations, but man this year I honestly thought we were going to make some major noise.  I suppose it's still possible given that we are still waiting for some missing pieces, but after we laid an egg at Nebraska, didn't even show up in St. Louis, used a miracle to win in Toldeo and beat everyone else with an RPI in the 900s, I am not sure anymore.  With what this team has as far as experience, depth and BCS talent, a 9-5 record or hell even a 10-4 record is a salvage at best, IMO.  It's not a success--no way no how.  Maybe I have too high expectations this year.

I know historically VU doesn't play well on the road against ranked opponents.  But this year it seems that Valpo really curls up into the fetal position away from home.  How is that even possible with five seniors?  Is it the 2005-2006 season all over again? 

[mj]

Considering our success last year and the fact that we returned our entire team (mostly), I felt that we had a chance to make some noise this year. The problem is that this year's team is playing like the final 2 games of last season. It's the same stupid mistakes over and over again. 23 turnovers for a team that starts 5 seniors. Really? It's the stupid turnovers like not catching passes or letting the ball go between your hands that really start to add up. Who's to blame for this? The players or the coaches?

[valpopal]

Last year, there was lots of griping on the board about losses in December to IPFW, Oakland, and IUPUI; yet, the team managed to surpass expectations once the conference regular season began. This year, the exact same kind of comments are being expressed about losses to Nebraska, St. Louis, and New Mexico. Let's hope the team follows last year's pattern and plays better during the conference season (and adds a tournament championship win). In any case, at least this year's complaints are about losses to a higher grade of opponents. I guess that is a sure signal of improvement and increased respect that bring about higher hopes and greater expectations! 

[StlVUFan]

It would be refreshing to hear all of Valpo nation rise up and exclaim, When are we going to bleeping take advantage of one of these opportunities to reclaim some attention?

If you listened to the postgame show last night, you heard exactly that from the only folks who matter: the coaching staff.  What impact the rest of us could have is beyond me.

[vu72]

OK so I began this thread by saying VU loses by 23.

My secret hope is that for once we come out with something other than a defeatist, we-can't-win attitude, play well, and hold NM to maybe a 6 or 8 point win.  Maybe that would give us something to build on going forward.

Paul

So, did you watch the game?  I did.  We were down by 3 at half and had it within 10 before having to foul to try to catch up.  Hardly a 23 point (or bigger as predicted by others).

These are very tough games all played on the road.  Anyone will tell you how difficult it is to win on the road particularly against top 20 teams.  We hung with these guys and I could see much better team play that what I saw against Nebraska or SLU.  We will get better the more we pklay together and add Dority.
No one we play this year will blow us out.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=bHq12lIYJME&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DbHq12lIYJME

EXACTLY what I was thinking, smj.  well-played.

Considering our success last year and the fact that we returned our entire team (mostly), I felt that we had a chance to make some noise this year.

I think that this is at the heart of every VU fans' regret right now.  We just expected so much for this year, especially since last year exceeded expectations, it was only natural guardedly optimistic to think "Butler 2010", but

Last year, there was lots of griping on the board about losses in December to IPFW, Oakland, and IUPUI; yet, the team managed to surpass expectations once the conference regular season began. This year, the exact same kind of comments are being expressed about losses to Nebraska, St. Louis, and New Mexico.

This is true.  And for everyone predicting a conference tourney loss, well, I have to ask:  have you SEEN the rest of this conference?

Yeah, I saw you, UIC.  And I ain't skeered.

[EddieCabot]

Game story from the Post Trib ... http://posttrib.suntimes.com/sports/16894469-556/valparaiso-puts-up-a-fight-but-turnovers-prove-costly-against-new-mexico.html .

Bryce doesn't seem too upset, points out how good the opponent was and states the team is getting better.  He's not nearly as panicked as several posters are.  The story also mentions the "challenging non-conference schedule" Valpo is facing.  That was a good move by Bryce, IMO ... by loading up the non-con schedule, he gave his team a shot to build an at-large resume and earn a top-25 ranking.  If things didn't work out (due to unknowns like Capobianco's surgery and Broekhoff's illness), he still has given his team some great experience and they will be better when the league season rolls around.

On another note, it looks like the NWI just used an AP game story ... does Oren not cover road games?

[valporun]

Paul might have had to cover high school games in the area. New Mexico is a bit of a trek for the NWI Times to have to pay the bill for.

[milanmiracle]

This is true.  And for everyone predicting a conference tourney loss, well, I have to ask:  have you SEEN the rest of this conference?

Yeah, I saw you, UIC.  And I ain't skeered.

Yea, and I also saw a disfunctional Detroit team come into Valpo and kick the tar out of them in the HL championship game too. It's not so much about the other teams as it is about Valpo.

UIC has demonstrated the ability to beat at least one decent team, while Valpo has not. Detroit still has McCallum, and while we don't care for him much, he can still get hot and take over a game. There's nobody on this roster who can guard him either. Right now UIC has 4 wins over the RPI top 200, including beating Northwestern. Valpo on the other hand has 1 win over the top 200 (Kent State).  It's a long season, and until Dority plays I am holding out hope (yes, this is hopeful, haha). I suspect that Valpo will end up with 20+ wins, but will they win when it matters. Nothing they have done so far demonstrates they can beat good/decent teams.