https://twitter.com/EnthusiAdams/status/859433781803069440
https://twitter.com/EnthusiAdams/status/859435194394214400
https://twitter.com/EnthusiAdams/status/859436509518286848
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/859455993410973696
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/859456461709160448
If we're the only add I wonder if MSU turned them down or they're staying at 10 for now. Smart move if it's MVC to not handcuff yourself. Leaves a lot of room to add over next few years.
I kind of hope that they don't stay at 10 per this rumor. That puts Valpo in the unenviable position of being WSU's sole replacement, and I think we'll all agree that this is no where near a 1 for 1 swap so the pressure on Valpo will be extraordinary. But I actually got comfortable with adding 2 to replace 1. Even 3. I hope Adams is wrong.
It would balance the public/private thing at 5 each. Kinda like the idea of also adding Murray but their football situation may be the deal breaker.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on May 02, 2017, 11:36:32 AM
If we're the only add I wonder if MSU turned them down or they're staying at 10 for now. Smart move if it's MVC to not handcuff yourself. Leaves a lot of room to add over next few years.
Why would Murray be so public about conference exploration just to decline?
I'm going to speculate and try to read between the lines:
If going to 11 is causing resistance, there is no way that the MVC will move to 12 this year. UWM and Omaha are out for next year.
The MVC may move to 11, but not this year.
The MVC may move to 12, but not this year.
Murray's football may be in issue since their OVC football schedule is set.
The MVFC's non MVC members are cold or luke warm on an MSU football add.
The situation remains fluid, which means that 11 (Valpo and Murray to the MVC next year) is still a possibility.
I kind of hope this guy is wrong too.
Zero chance Murray declined.
Just my gut, that if the MVC settles with only 10 this season, they will eventually ass 1-2 schools within the next couple years.
Assuming this is true:
Does this put Murray on the backburner for when Missouri State makes the move to FBS (Sun Belt/MAC/C-USA)?
Adding one to maintain the status quo makes me nervous because it indicates that the Valley is reactive instead of proactive when it comes to realignment, much like the HL has been dealing with life post-Butler. Whether we agreed with the schools chosen, the proactive/aggressive stance demonstrated by a move to 11 or 12 would make me more comfortable about the league's long term outlook.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: VULB#62 on May 02, 2017, 11:39:34 AMI kind of hope that they don't stay at 10 per this rumor. That puts Valpo in the unenviable position of being WSU's sole replacement, and I think we'll all agree that this is no where near a 1 for 1 swap so the pressure on Valpo will be extraordinary. But I actually got comfortable with adding 2 to replace 1. Even 3. I hope Adams is wrong.
If true, this is thinking SMALL on a grand scale! It would be a confirmation that both commissioners Elgin and LeCrone are indeed "peas in a pod" and should be simultaneously fired from their MVC and HL duties.
We need a big picture larger solution and this slightly upward lateral step just ain't going to get err done.
https://twitter.com/TribStarTodd/status/859458329957064704
https://twitter.com/TribStarTodd/status/859458774800769024
https://twitter.com/TribStarTodd/status/859459202225459201
https://twitter.com/TribStarTodd/status/859459462943211520
MVC Meetings In St. Louis Today
By Harry Schroeder on May 2, 2017
(St. Louis, MO) – Missouri Valley Conference basketball coaches are meeting in St. Louis today. Without a doubt the men's and women's coaches will be quizzed and informed about the latest going on related to MVC expansion.
However, I'm told this is a regularly scheduled meeting that has a standard agenda including updates on non-conference scheduling, reports on officiating, Arch Madness, marketing/promotions, media relations, NCAA tournament and updates on NCAA legislation. From what I'm told this is a standard, off-season meeting of both the men's and women's coaches.
No one I've talked to believes the university presidents have had their meeting with Commissioner Doug Elgin. If t that is true, then no true decisions have been made. However, there could be many back channel conversations going on and great movement could be taking place.
Our friend Mark Adams says he has a source saying Valparaiso is the one and only team being invited.
Meanwhile, our friend Jeff Bidwell has spoken with Murray State Athletic Director who says the presidents haven't met and MSU hasn't been sent a 'dear John' letter.
[tweet]859452307150323712[/tweet]
It is a fluid situation still today. Remember, Wichita State announced their departure less than a month ago. If an answer comes any time in the next week to ten days, it will have been both deliberate and speedy.
I'm surprised to hear Paul say he expects final word on Monday. That would seem like an unusually fast process from where we are now.
Sounds like the Presidents still have to vote, presumably then an offer has to be extended, maybe yet still negotiated, considered, etc. I wouldn't expect any official announcements until everything's done. Maybe some of this can be streamlined, but I'll be shocked if this is official on Monday.
The problem with Murray State is their last 2 seasons. Yes, they have a history of winning, but last year was really bad. We don't have any of those really bad seasons in the last 10+ years.
Weren't you guys last under .500 in 09-10? and the year before went 9-22?
Those years don't give a good account to your program and the last two seasons (after losing a coach, complete roster turnover, and an NBA lottery pick) don't give a good account of ours.
Quote from: RacerJoeD on May 02, 2017, 02:37:18 PM
Weren't you guys last under .500 in 09-10? and the year before went 9-22?
Those years don't give a good account to your program and the last two seasons (after losing a coach, complete roster turnover, and an NBA lottery pick) don't give a good account of ours.
Yep. Valid points.
Twitter isn't the most affective form for polls because there are a lot of Horizon League fans (non-Valpo Fans) voting for HL.
MVC > HL
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/859477990228537345
Well this sounds big
https://twitter.com/_amleavitt/status/859502066435321861
It would be awfully cheeky of Aaron, but it could just be confirmation of The new German signing.
Or, you know, that our first exhibition is going to be a Family Express Family Day.
Quote from: agibson on May 02, 2017, 04:24:39 PM
It would be awfully cheeky of Aaron, but it could just be confirmation of The new German signing.
Or, you know, that our first exhibition is going to be a Family Express Family Day.
Ding, Ding, Ding! on the German signing
Well at least it wasn't family express family day... but not the news we were hoping for...
https://twitter.com/_amleavitt/status/859520708988329986
https://twitter.com/Valpo_Hoops/status/859541231352918016
Quote from: agibson on May 02, 2017, 02:04:37 PM
I'm surprised to hear Paul say he expects final word on Monday. That would seem like an unusually fast process from where we are now.
Sounds like the Presidents still have to vote, presumably then an offer has to be extended, maybe yet still negotiated, considered, etc. I wouldn't expect any official announcements until everything's done. Maybe some of this can be streamlined, but I'll be shocked if this is official on Monday.
I think Monday sounds reasonable actually. I would imagine that a lot of vetting took place by the MVC when Creighton left. I believe the last team to leave the MVC before Creighton was Tulsa in 1996? (I'm sure one of our MVC friends knows for sure) so a Creighton departure probably required more due diligence since a member hadn't left in so long. The MVC only visited four schools this time around. Plus, next Monday puts us into the second week in May and sports schedules would have to start being rearranged and put together for the next year, not only by the MVC but also by the HL or the OVC (or the Summit). The A-10 only took Butler so late in May due to special circumstances. I think if we don't hear on Monday it would be very soon thereafter.
So the Valley coaches had a routine meeting today to discuss other topics. Obviously at this meeting the topic of expansion was also talked about extensively as well as that is the hot topic these days. Sounds like Mark Adams just tweeted out "the pulse of the room" according to somebody who shares info with him.
Obviously, the pulse of the coaches is not necessarily the pulse of the AD's and Presidents.
I am sure Adam's information didn't come out of thin air. Seems like a pretty respectable guy. The only leap I am willing to make at this juncture is that the coaches seem to be leaning 10 teams and Valpo.
Wow I'm pretty surprised how vocal Murray States AD is on twitter.
I like the Murray State athletics directors style.
https://twitter.com/PantherU/status/859567996074905601
https://twitter.com/MurrayStateAD/status/859568599471718400
https://twitter.com/MurrayStateAD/status/859553553756672001
https://twitter.com/MurrayStateAD/status/859553933043388416
https://twitter.com/MurrayStateAD/status/859555111378530305
https://twitter.com/MurrayStateAD/status/859556354020737024
https://twitter.com/MurrayStateAD/status/859557116302024705
https://twitter.com/MurrayStateAD/status/859557978688638977
https://twitter.com/MurrayStateAD/status/859560507224752130
https://twitter.com/MurrayStateAD/status/859563786172334081
https://twitter.com/MurrayStateAD/status/859565051421884418
One interesting theory I've heard is that this "leak" that just happened was a negotiation ploy by the MVC to try and force Murray State make concessions on some things and pressure them into agreeing to something. I never thought about that but I guess everything in life is a negotiation.
Thoughts on that "conspiracy theory"/possibility?
Some speculation someone suggested was: Reduced financial compensation for the first few years? No shares in old tournament money? Not sure Valpo would agree to that or at least the reduced compensation for a few years. I'd think I'd probably say no to that if they asked Valpo to make that concession.
https://twitter.com/EnthusiAdams/status/859573061699457024
https://twitter.com/EnthusiAdams/status/859573733618483200
https://twitter.com/EnthusiAdams/status/859575711207747588
I actually thought something related but a little different. I thought it was a test to see if the admins at Valpo could be leak proof.
No clue if it's true, but it's funny how similar the thoughts are.
I say invite both Valpo and Murray State and call it a day. Both are great
Quote from: RacerJoeD on May 02, 2017, 08:24:50 PM
I actually thought something related but a little different. I thought it was a test to see if the admins at Valpo could be leak proof.
No clue if it's true, but it's funny how similar the thoughts are.
Paul just put this out there. Quick little 2 minute bumper audio. Apparently no one at Valpo knows what the MVC is thinking seems like a big mystery to everyone. No one at Valpo seems to be talking.
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/859587454680125440
Those are the same words we heard for several days regarding Bryce going to Vandy. No one was talking back then and no one is talking now.
Video
http://www.wpsdlocal6.com/story/35325471/murray-state-ad-mvc-has-not-made-yet-made-expansion-decision
It is quite possible that the MVC has extended an invite to Valpo yesterday (5/2) and a final decision will be voted on this Friday or next Monday. Obviously, a fair amount of upgrades that have been requested by the league will have to be discussed by Valpo higherups. While this entire possibility to change conferences is solely based on men's basketball, I wish other sports would be able to weigh in on the decision behind the scenes.
Quote from: valpo tundra on May 03, 2017, 02:07:01 AM
It is quite possible that the MVC has extended an invite to Valpo yesterday (5/2) and a final decision will be voted on this Friday or next Monday. Obviously, a fair amount of upgrades that have been requested by the league will have to be discussed by Valpo higherups. While this entire possibility to change conferences is solely based on men's basketball, I wish other sports would be able to weigh in on the decision behind the scenes.
This could be the most revealing post since this whole discussion began. Stated as fact:
• ...a fair amount of upgrades
that have been requested by the league
• ...I wish other sports would be able to weigh in (point being that Olympic sports coaches were not asked about their opinions re. conference change
• ...quite possible that the MVC extended an invite to Valpo yesterday (5/2). (Pinpoints a specific date)
Most important comment - the MVC has specified improvements it wants made. It's decision time. Commit the resources necessary to take the next step, or fall behind. There is no such thing as status quo.
Tundra - I don't know who you are, but you know something, don't you?
Channel 12 in Cape Girardeau (KFVS-CBS) sure is getting themselves into some hot water with the Murray State AD.
Allen Ward
@MurrayStateAD
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Allen Ward Retweeted Jeff Bidwell
The KFVS report is not accurate. Murray State University officials have NOT confirmed those rumors! The discussion & vote has not occurred.
Channel 6 in Paducah--transmitter in Monkey's Eyebrow, KY (WPSD-NBC) is trying to be neutral.
Channel 3 with studios between Carbondale and Marion (in Carterville) and their transmitter in Harrisburg, IL (WSIL-ABC) doesn't seem to have anything on Murray State. Channel 3 covers SIU pretty extensively and you would think they would care some about MVC expansion.
http://www.wsiltv.com/category/301475/sports
Quote from: wh on May 03, 2017, 04:06:26 AMQuote from: valpo tundra on May 03, 2017, 02:07:01 AMIt is quite possible that the MVC has extended an invite to Valpo yesterday (5/2) and a final decision will be voted on this Friday or next Monday. Obviously, a fair amount of upgrades that have been requested by the league will have to be discussed by Valpo higherups. While this entire possibility to change conferences is solely based on men's basketball, I wish other sports would be able to weigh in on the decision behind the scenes.
This could be the most revealing post since this whole discussion began. Stated as fact: • ...a fair amount of upgrades that have been requested by the league • ...I wish other sports would be able to weigh in (point being that Olympic sports coaches were not asked about their opinions re. conference change • ...quite possible that the MVC extended an invite to Valpo yesterday (5/2). (Pinpoints a specific date) Most important comment - the MVC has specified improvements it wants made. It's decision time. Commit the resources necessary to take the next step, or fall behind. There is no such thing as status quo. Tundra - I don't know who you are, but you know something, don't you?
Are these only request or mandated?
Murray State AD day 2:
https://twitter.com/MurrayStateAD/status/859773375723565056
Quote from: wh on May 03, 2017, 04:06:26 AM
Quote from: valpo tundra on May 03, 2017, 02:07:01 AM
It is quite possible that the MVC has extended an invite to Valpo yesterday (5/2) and a final decision will be voted on this Friday or next Monday. Obviously, a fair amount of upgrades that have been requested by the league will have to be discussed by Valpo higherups. While this entire possibility to change conferences is solely based on men's basketball, I wish other sports would be able to weigh in on the decision behind the scenes.
This could be the most revealing post since this whole discussion began. Stated as fact:
• ...a fair amount of upgrades that have been requested by the league
• ...I wish other sports would be able to weigh in (point being that Olympic sports coaches were not asked about their opinions re. conference change
• ...quite possible that the MVC extended an invite to Valpo yesterday (5/2). (Pinpoints a specific date)
Most important comment - the MVC has specified improvements it wants made. It's decision time. Commit the resources necessary to take the next step, or fall behind. There is no such thing as status quo.
Tundra - I don't know who you are, but you know something, don't you?
Agreed, 100%.
Does Mark Adams know any of this? Because at some point a move to the MVC becomes economically untenable. The only question is what that dollar amount threshold is to make it untenable. If an entrance fee, an exit fee, and "a fair amount of upgrades" is part of the move, I would be really curious to know what dollar amount threshold (either realized or projected) it would take for the Administration to say "no thanks...this move makes no economic sense, and we're fine in the HL."
I guess that's the million, or millions of dollars question, if that post was accurate.
Quote from: valpo tundra on May 03, 2017, 02:07:01 AM
It is quite possible that the MVC has extended an invite to Valpo yesterday (5/2) and a final decision will be voted on this Friday or next Monday. Obviously, a fair amount of upgrades that have been requested by the league will have to be discussed by Valpo higherups. While this entire possibility to change conferences is solely based on men's basketball, I wish other sports would be able to weigh in on the decision behind the scenes.
Unless this person is an insider, breaking the cone of silence (which no one else at any of the schools seems to have done), every word of this is speculation and opinion. I am not reading too much into this.... that's my opinion, speculation, guess ..... whatever >:( damn I wish this was over!
Quote from: VU2014 on May 02, 2017, 10:50:33 AM
https://twitter.com/EnthusiAdams/status/859433781803069440
If this is really what is happening then to me the move to the MVC becomes much less inviting. My main reason for wanting the move is to get into a conference that has the potential to be a multi-bid league, is proactive in achieving that goal and building a strong mid-major conference. If the invite is to only one school then the presidents and commissioner are only reacting to the WSU loss and not thinking big picture. In other words, this is just a rehash of what we currently have. There are other reasons this move makes sense, more traditional rivalries, like-minded private schools, a
slightly higher profile conference and a better tournament atmosphere. I am not sure that the additional expense of moving to a weakened MVC would outweigh some of the issues discussed earlier by Paul Oren.
I have said it here and over at the Murray State board, but it bears repeating;
If the MVC adds either Valpo or Murray, but not both, it has failed.
Quote from: VU2014 on May 03, 2017, 09:31:45 AM
Murray State AD day 2:
https://twitter.com/MurrayStateAD/status/859773375723565056
https://twitter.com/Jim_Connell_NL/status/859552470225367042
If I was this Jim Connell guy I think I might delete that tweet. I doubt that the Murray AD would deliberately make himself look stupid. Journalism in the digital age sure is "interesting" :crazy:
Why would he tweet about an unsubstantiated report?? I must be confused with what that means....
Quote from: M on May 03, 2017, 10:51:19 AM
Why would he tweet about an unsubstantiated report?? I must be confused with what that means....
Because if you don't tweet it first, you become 'old' news if and when the truth is known.
Quote from: RacerJoeD on May 03, 2017, 10:33:42 AM
I have said it here and over at the Murray State board, but it bears repeating;
If the MVC adds either Valpo or Murray, but not both, it has failed.
I agree, I don't understand what they feel the unwarranted risks might be to building an 11 or 12 team league that would
potentially just maintain their previous status. Are they afraid of throwing some of the other leagues into turmoil?? Would there be a potential backlash?? Perhaps there are contractual issues that could cause potential problems?? Are they afraid that more teams mean smaller shares??? The perception and I would think revenue potential of the MVC would definitely take a huge hit if only one team is added.
Quote from: FWalum on May 03, 2017, 11:03:14 AM
Quote from: RacerJoeD on May 03, 2017, 10:33:42 AM
I have said it here and over at the Murray State board, but it bears repeating;
If the MVC adds either Valpo or Murray, but not both, it has failed.
I agree, I don't understand what they feel the unwarranted risks might be to building an 11 or 12 team league that would potentially just maintain their previous status. Are they afraid of throwing some of the other leagues into turmoil?? Would there be a potential backlash?? Perhaps there are contractual issues that could cause potential problems?? Are they afraid that more teams mean smaller shares??? The perception and I would think revenue potential of the MVC would definitely take a huge hit if only one team is added.
I completely agree. Four years ago the MVC "brain-trust" pulled one of the biggest blunders in NCAA history when they replaced 1 of the most dominant mid-major programs in the nation with another mid-major conference's 2nd worst program. Now they want to replace their 1 remaining mid-major power with just Valpo, or just Murray State? These people are hapless fools. Both Valpo and Murray State should tell the MVC to GFY, and sit back and watch them implode after they add the Horizon League's current dumpster fire - Milwaukee. That would be another addition by subtraction for the HL, and the end of the MVC as we know it.
https://twitter.com/EnthusiAdams/status/859799894449688578
Anyone else get the sense that Valpo officials are sitting in a quiet confidence right now while Murray St. AD and President seem anxious and nervous with their tweets? Granted I would also be upset if someone reported a supposedly false story about my school. But we are getting absolutely nothing out of ML while their AD is tweeting back to fans of other MVC schools? Just seems odd to me.
So Mark Adams is standing by a tweet which may or may not be true. It's almost like his tweet was of absolutely no value. Thanks for nothing there Mark.
Quote from: valpo4life on May 03, 2017, 11:40:26 AM
Anyone else get the sense that Valpo officials are sitting in a quiet confidence right now while Murray St. AD and President seem anxious and nervous with their tweets? Granted I would also be upset if someone reported a supposedly false story about my school. But we are getting absolutely nothing out of ML while their AD is tweeting back to fans of other MVC schools? Just seems odd to me.
There is absolutely no need for ML and Valpo to manage messages right now...when things are breaking your way, you just sit tight and let them unfold. The desperate responses coming out of Murray AD aren't a good look. That being said, the meltdown (and PantherU's) have been entertaining.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: FWalum on May 03, 2017, 10:32:41 AMIf this is really what is happening then to me the move to the MVC becomes much less inviting. My main reason for wanting the move is to get into a conference that has the potential to be a multi-bid league, is proactive in achieving that goal and building a strong mid-major conference. If the invite is to only one school then the presidents and commissioner are only reacting to the WSU loss and not thinking big picture. In other words, this is just a rehash of what we currently have. There are other reasons this move makes sense, more traditional rivalries, like-minded private schools, a slightly higher profile conference and a better tournament atmosphere. I am not sure that the additional expense of moving to a weakened MVC would outweigh some of the issues discussed earlier by Paul Oren.
What if they plan to add Murray State or another school for the 18-19 season?
Quote from: wh on May 03, 2017, 11:31:03 AM
Quote from: FWalum on May 03, 2017, 11:03:14 AM
Quote from: RacerJoeD on May 03, 2017, 10:33:42 AM
I have said it here and over at the Murray State board, but it bears repeating;
If the MVC adds either Valpo or Murray, but not both, it has failed.
I agree, I don't understand what they feel the unwarranted risks might be to building an 11 or 12 team league that would potentially just maintain their previous status. Are they afraid of throwing some of the other leagues into turmoil?? Would there be a potential backlash?? Perhaps there are contractual issues that could cause potential problems?? Are they afraid that more teams mean smaller shares??? The perception and I would think revenue potential of the MVC would definitely take a huge hit if only one team is added.
I completely agree. Four years ago the MVC "brain-trust" pulled one of the biggest blunders in NCAA history when they replaced 1 of the most dominant mid-major programs in the nation with another mid-major conference's 2nd worst program. Now they want to replace their 1 remaining mid-major power with just Valpo, or just Murray State? These people are hapless fools. Both Valpo and Murray State should tell the MVC to GFY, and sit back and watch them implode after they add the Horizon League's current dumpster fire - Milwaukee. That would be another addition by subtraction for the HL, and the end of the MVC as we know it.
By the way, the fact that the MVC is even considering Milwaukee as a 3rd option is laughable and shows that they learned absolutely nothing from the Loyola debacle. In addition to having a gawd-awful men's basketball program for the past several years, Milwaukee is easily the most dysfunctional program in the HL. They've gone through more athletic directors in a short time than probably any university in the country and their current AD is divisive and completely in over her head. They are a mere shadow of their former selves and there is nothing to warrant the optimistic rhetoric coming from Jimmy and others up there. Any fan of any failed program anywhere can spin up a tale that their program is on the rise. It's totally meaningless. They are where they are for a reason, and slick talking rhetoric isn't going to change anything. As to the MVC buying into the Milwaukee narrative, it goes to show how clueless they really are.
You want to see something exciting - add Murray State, Valpo and Oakland. Now you have a change that's worth something.
Quote from: FWalum on May 03, 2017, 11:03:14 AM
I agree, I don't understand what they feel the unwarranted risks might be to building an 11 or 12 team league that would potentially just maintain their previous status. Are they afraid of throwing some of the other leagues into turmoil?? Would there be a potential backlash?? Perhaps there are contractual issues that could cause potential problems?? Are they afraid that more teams mean smaller shares??? The perception and I would think revenue potential of the MVC would definitely take a huge hit if only one team is added.
I can't get inside their heads, but the biggest concern almost has to be NCAA tournament share revenue and their fear that adding 2 or 3 schools right now is going to dilute an ever-shrinking pool of tournament shares for leagues that don't consistently see 3 or more of their teams go to the tournament each year. Looking over the history of Kenpom (16 seasons, and it's easy to gather historical data), I went through and totaled up the number of bids and tourney records the remaining MVC teams had and compared Valpo, Murray and UWM (since UNO's story is a short one with no NCAA tournament bids). Over that 16 year stretch, all 3 teams are somewhat comparable. Murray has the edge in bids (5 vs. 4 for UWM and Valpo), UWM has the best tourney record (3-4 vs. 2-5 for MSU and 0-4 for Valpo), and Murray State has the best average Kenpom rating over that time (123 vs. 126 for Valpo and 144 for UWM).
If you knock that down to the last 5 years though, Valpo is by far the best option, with an average rating of 88, while Murray comes in at 136 and UWM is at 211. The overall problem though, is that of the remaining teams in the MVC, only 2 have a better NCAA tourney and bid track record (SIU and UNI), and UNI is the only school in the league that has been consistently good, with an average 16 season rating of 89.5, and in the past 5 years it's been 83.2. The problem is that to consistently get multiple bids as the league did in 2002-07 and 2012,2013,2015 and 2016, the league needs multiple teams in the top 50 unless the league gets a new bell cow that tanks it in the conference tourney. Historically, that's been more the exception than the rule for the remaining programs, as well as for the schools they are looking at. SIU leads with 5 times being ranked in the top 50, but all of those were 2007 and prior. Here are the remaining schools and the year(s) they accomplished the feat. Kenpom is a much better rating system than the RPI, and a better predictor of tourney success as well.
Bradley - 1 (2006)
Drake - 1 (2008)
Evansville - 0
Illinois St. - 1 (2017)
Indiana St. - 0
Loyola - 0
Missouri St. - 2 (2006, 2007)
Northern Iowa - 4 (2005, 2006, 2010, 2015)
SIU - 5 (2002, 2004 - 2007)
Murray - 1 (2012)
UNO - 0
UWM - 1 (2005)
Valpo - 2 (2002, 2016)
Especially when considering how hard it is for mid-major schools to get good home games against major programs, this doesn't bode well for any league outside of the top 7-8. While past performance doesn't always predict future success, it is difficult to foresee a scenario in which the MVC adding any or all of these schools significantly and consistently improves their chances of getting 2-3 teams in the tourney each and every year. Doesn't mean it can't happen, just that on a yearly basis the league would be more likely to have one bid than multiple based on each school's history.
Quote from: Valpo49 on May 03, 2017, 11:55:18 AMSo Mark Adams is standing by a tweet which may or may not be true. It's almost like his tweet was of absolutely no value. Thanks for nothing there Mark.
What would you like him to do?
Quote from: VU2624 on May 03, 2017, 01:39:13 PM
Quote from: Valpo49 on May 03, 2017, 11:55:18 AMSo Mark Adams is standing by a tweet which may or may not be true. It's almost like his tweet was of absolutely no value. Thanks for nothing there Mark.
What would you like him to do?
He said it wasn't just one source. I'm not sure what the fuss is about him reporting what he heard. It's completely unreasonable for him to give up his sources like some MVC fans are calling for on Twitter. He even said it was a fluid situation, but said Valpo looks like the leader.
I think most fans are annoyed that he said 10. Most everyone seems to want at least 11 being Valpo and Murray State.
Everything has been deathly quiet. Mark may be tuned in, but why would a source or two or however many start speaking all of a sudden?
Valpo has been quiet. UWM for the most part was quiet. Murray State up until the last two days or so has been quiet besides their public board meeting. And MVC officials have said nothing all along.
Could the source be speculating? Could it be a planned/controlled leak?
Whatever it is, Something weird is going on, especially with Murray State AD turning public and going after "false reports "
Quote from: wh on May 03, 2017, 11:31:03 AMI completely agree. Four years ago the MVC "brain-trust" pulled one of the biggest blunders in NCAA history when they replaced 1 of the most dominant mid-major programs in the nation with another mid-major conference's 2nd worst program. Now they want to replace their 1 remaining mid-major power with just Valpo, or just Murray State? These people are hapless fools. Both Valpo and Murray State should tell the MVC to GFY, and sit back and watch them implode after they add the Horizon League's current dumpster fire - Milwaukee. That would be another addition by subtraction for the HL, and the end of the MVC as we know it.
Couldn't have stated it any better except I hate using abbreviations. :)
Mark Adams' tweets based on sources could be true even if they appear uncertain or contradictory. Perhaps the MVC will add Valpo as the 10th team for the upcoming season, but move to 11 or 12 teams in the following year. It would be easy to schedule one team for 2017-2018 by just subbing Valpo for Wichita State. However, because of Murray State football and the difficulties of scheduling more teams—especially a divisional schedule if going to 12 teams and working out the MVC vs MWC challenge—planning and negotiations would require waiting until 2018-2019 entry for the additional schools. This scenario would fit with Adams' messages.
Not that I want to plug my twitter, but those of you who know it go check my rant on Mark Adams today.
All I'll say here is what he did was completely irresponsible and nothing but damaging.
Quote from: IrishDawg on May 03, 2017, 12:32:48 PMEspecially when considering how hard it is for mid-major schools to get good home games against major programs, this doesn't bode well for any league outside of the top 7-8. While past performance doesn't always predict future success, it is difficult to foresee a scenario in which the MVC adding any or all of these schools significantly and consistently improves their chances of getting 2-3 teams in the tourney each and every year. Doesn't mean it can't happen, just that on a yearly basis the league would be more likely to have one bid than multiple based on each school's history.
Many of us are now sold on the 12 team floating super division scheduling concept which would magnify SOS and RPI. With the haves (like your Butler buddies) unwilling to play us, the old status quo approach is about to be trashed. If Doug Elgin and the MVC are not smart enough to recognize the need for this major overhaul then why should we want to join?
MID- MAJORS UNITE :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
The whole Podcast is MVC talk. Mark Adams is the first interview of the Podcast.
http://www.nwitimes.com/digital/audio/union-street-hoops/podcast-union-street-hoops-episode/audio_0a5ad0ce-3038-11e7-8305-0767c2051a1a.html
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/859869799064760320
Quote from: bbtds on May 03, 2017, 03:11:04 PM
Quote from: wh on May 03, 2017, 11:31:03 AMGFY,
Go for Youngstown?
Not the words I was thinking of, but they do fit all the MVC's criteria:
• Terrible basketball program
• Nice venue - looks like new on TV - most seats have never been used
• Only 65 miles from Pittsburgh - whole new media market and recruiting area
• Added bonus - New coach with high expectations
They fit like a glove. :thumbsup:
...... and already a MVFC member!
Quote from: bbtds on May 03, 2017, 12:08:03 PM
Quote from: FWalum on May 03, 2017, 10:32:41 AMIf this is really what is happening then to me the move to the MVC becomes much less inviting. My main reason for wanting the move is to get into a conference that has the potential to be a multi-bid league, is proactive in achieving that goal and building a strong mid-major conference. If the invite is to only one school then the presidents and commissioner are only reacting to the WSU loss and not thinking big picture. In other words, this is just a rehash of what we currently have. There are other reasons this move makes sense, more traditional rivalries, like-minded private schools, a slightly higher profile conference and a better tournament atmosphere. I am not sure that the additional expense of moving to a weakened MVC would outweigh some of the issues discussed earlier by Paul Oren.
What if they plan to add Murray State or another school for the 18-19 season?
I am not saying that if we are the only invite we should pass, it just deserves a lot more thought. IMHO a 10 team MVC just causes a ton of uncertainty. WSU's move is causing a ripple effect and every mid major conference should be on guard. I don't think it is written in stone that Murray or anybody else will be available next year. It seems all of the conferences are just as chicken as the HL and MVC when it comes to this stuff, but maybe someone will grow some balls and try to do something exciting like a HL OVC merger. Who knows at this point, I sure don't.
The MVC needs to be aggressive here. It needs to "kill" the Horizon and Summit. Start strangling the life out of other MM conferences that might want to start looking at teams to add. Make it so that the MVC is CLEARLY a head of any of the MMs conferences. Be the best by simply killing off everyone else. Want to do that? Grab Valpo (and sadly UWM) from the Horizon and Murray State from the OVC. The Horizon makes a run at PUFW and IUPUI. That puts the Horizon way behind where they are now, effectively killing them. The Summit is left on life support with just 7 members and has to make a run a places like UMKC, UIC, Southern Utah, Northern Colorado, hope, etc... or stay at 7 and wait for their death to come later down the road. The OVC has to replace a football and basektball member. They may take WIU out of the Summit to fill that all sports member. That kills the Summit off even further. Maybe that grab an ASUN member, or something like that. Leaving the Summit and OVC further behind where it was.
Be aggressive and kill anyone that *could* be a threat
The MVC has to become the A10 of mid-America. So you are spot on, UNIFTW, the only way that happens is to be aggressive. I can't speak for any other school that is in play at this point, but I'd bet that ........
IF the MVC extends an invitation to Valpo .......
And IF Valpo accepts (the key IMO) ........
Short of building a new BB arena, Valpo will commit the resources necessary to meet any MVC conditions and on our side VU will put things into place that ensure that we are competitive immediately in MBB.
I like this mindset.
Clearly there is a chance to dominate the nation's interior in M.M. basketball. In reply to Big East and Big West, I suggest that the MVC add teams and call itself the BIG MIDWEST.
If there is no substance to the Mark Adams report, why would the MSU A.D. care a bit about a rumor passing through "MONKEY'S EYEBROW, Kentucky" (SEE BELOW).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Allen Ward Retweeted Jeff Bidwell
The KFVS report is not accurate. Murray State University officials have NOT confirmed those rumors! The discussion & vote has not occurred.
Channel 6 in Paducah--transmitter in Monkey's Eyebrow, KY (WPSD-NBC) is trying to be neutral.
Quote from: UNIFTW on May 03, 2017, 04:33:23 PM
The MVC needs to be aggressive here. It needs to "kill" the Horizon and Summit. Start strangling the life out of other MM conferences that might want to start looking at teams to add. Make it so that the MVC is CLEARLY a head of any of the MMs conferences. Be the best by simply killing off everyone else. Want to do that? Grab Valpo (and sadly UWM) from the Horizon and Murray State from the OVC. The Horizon makes a run at PUFW and IUPUI. That puts the Horizon way behind where they are now, effectively killing them. The Summit is left on life support with just 7 members and has to make a run a places like UMKC, UIC, Southern Utah, Northern Colorado, hope, etc... or stay at 7 and wait for their death to come later down the road. The OVC has to replace a football and basektball member. They may take WIU out of the Summit to fill that all sports member. That kills the Summit off even further. Maybe that grab an ASUN member, or something like that. Leaving the Summit and OVC further behind where it was.
Be aggressive and kill anyone that *could* be a threat
Kill the Summit and the HL? C'mon, man stop it. Not going to happen. Even if the MVC were to take VU, MSU and UWM, they'd both certainly survive.
Regarding the Summit, did North Dakota vanish? UND will join the Summit in 2018, so even if IUPUI and Fort Wayne were to join the HL as you suggest, the Summit would still be at eight members soon enough anyway. If the Summit wanted to draw UMKC as team #9, I'm sure they would be able to get them from the WAC as insurance. And Western Illinois to the OVC? Dude, you come from a football school. Now there's good football in the OVC, but why would WIU trade that for games against NDSU, Youngstown, UNI and Illinois State if the Summit still has 8 or 9 members? The MVFC is the premier FCS conference, isn't it?
My $.02.
I interpreted "kill" as create an insurmountable gap between the MVC and any other middle of the country mm conferences. And I agree that should be the goal.
QUALIFICATION TO MY REPLY: If Valpo joins the MVC. ;D
Otherwise all bets are off.
Question directed at our MVC visitors: if being aggressive is a good thing, then what other steps has the MVC taken over, say, the last 5 years to specifically develop the conference into a multi-bid conference beyond riding WSU and other members' (UNI, Creighton, etc.) coattails?
On the down side, it caved in to WSU on exit fees and as I understand it, they trashed scheduling mandates.
Looking here for an up side.
When did Northern Illinois join the MVC?
Quote from: VULB#62 on May 03, 2017, 06:04:16 PMQuestion directed at our MVC visitors: if being aggressive is a good thing, then what other steps has the MVC taken over, say, the last 5 years to specifically develop the conference into a multi-bid conference beyond riding WSU and other members' (NIU, Creighton, etc.) coattails?
Not much from what I see. MVC fans are frustrated and they are just hoping the conference turns Wichita leaving into an opportunity to get better.
Quote from: bsmith21 on May 03, 2017, 06:37:32 PM
There's no team or group of teams that the MVC can add to make this a multi bid league most years. It could get multi bids about once every 3 or 4 years.
I guess that is one opinion and a pretty broad statement. Who knows how this would work out if VU and Murray were in the MVC. All we can do is look historically and say "what if" to see what might happen in the future. This is just an example of what the MVC would have looked like in 2015 without WSU and with VU and Murray added.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/l-jB1jjCsFEr9wJRCI4rG6eNiz4Umvo3coxx2hRkwBCbCl2SjrjPWJtQXMyNZFuISts0jhwOTLOD5PT8qe3abNyA8kOyXyvZV1jSU2R2dmEaEiOjvujia3dw06GS_s3FBZKV8kvzGihQIcirRFEdmiAiWZ5d0PB35zdgXxdkvftx8MlVsgZb8YfjME5rEgeQFe-fEqudpWb8HKa7dTbmNi2bYnW1xY0cXv7X3a6jcr-KQmxV_F5k2lb3ewuYSTD2QaYFc_APV47DxEWwI3CVmPNR7IanXuLN3cX99eeqzMTul8GPsRmH-RTE-pG92UeEG8HMyQdz80OsjHgelLKF7jfgI7YZwB0wMXKV46hx4msB_jpwjc5_BL2v2i1gPAOGeCMAF-lAVWgpwuv2jxqITYtisxebtEa5QCRp9I1dTJOVSWpC4nH94JkzOUzPkwOFzfGaRi8PJhJ4462E58OYHrttUzZ7mXozFg_4AZU9ilW7AK_HsIDEvRCy7OGKW_52Zt8rN7ijiin52zy5u4LifQ_zgi4_rA17NfVhEF2nSH_n00p0qLFpwjlCi3aKhXHXQbl30NaS71kfCmwWNnh4bMe6QY_XbcRYG675ZFwaaATKzdvrh3qQ=w434-h264-no)
Here is what the Horizon looked like that same year, a year we went to the NCAA as a 13
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/uJKtyAKjfAktvNS6B70qVGrWYbA20gIBN-iVHgH75N2KrDKFjzxVmvN8RW7HbpAelP-x_QdcMEmjC_cG8Ce_yVmk5rG-So1qb3DRiqy8h4LagcTqm9hhNz4-YX21VuSi6ReF1ThIqeyu0_XgO7fOLvoCm9A7xtefcaRkKdhJ7KSVE80NqcpbsqqfvJS6kE2Kd5SPmUAhXOs8112EmUbbYmQRaYw7UAAKMuQrGvrrfaztH9H9HU5LTIRXqIBRdEs97Ly2oHtqTdo4gr24MP8YosfyfpYIHFA-HFvV1f93VdwuQ7xWlNipBaedKOWdQ7tHi-pnbyKZdNc9gWcFhn32sxVlHop3BfvPYc0yT0e4bluzmpvJ-ZZeP1IwjeTaV5KPGKh7xpvdHvnlR7jJUsTLwPpfJ1uap7j_ynqzi-4peVNXSEyw3KpR71gDm6N0MeeKQbSYWvc_delJwPBVvQIObklhR06DzFtyG-D-KUjFMYWPOx1fVGaJk2VgsDj9V57cgnyTicPL6BE3wsJz_mOWIuUSm63BU76x1hOSzvqTeTIRZsUs6qFdsL4RWofLUZF6UboqUHkAtj6uadD4he9S8ex6q3la7_DodRR1tHMCsZShfRtcTmla=w465-h224-no)
I think that playing 5 top 100 teams in the "2015 MVC" bumps up the RPI of both VU and Murray. In a conference with that make up I think potentially 3 teams go to the tournament. If we go then we are probably not a 13 seed. Even without WSU, the top half of the MVC is better than the HL and the lower half is generally not as bad. I know this is a "one off" comparison, but I think it could pan out to be a multi-bid conference more often than every 3-4 years.
Quote from: VULB#62 on May 03, 2017, 06:04:16 PM
Question directed at our MVC visitors: if being aggressive is a good thing, then what other steps has the MVC taken over, say, the last 5 years to specifically develop the conference into a multi-bid conference beyond riding WSU and other members' (NIU, Creighton, etc.) coattails?
On the down side, it caved in to WSU on exit fees and as I understand it, they trashed scheduling mandates.
Looking here for an up side.
TV deals.
NIU = Northern Illinois
UNI = Northern Iowa.
Quote from: ISUBird on May 05, 2017, 11:16:21 AM
Quote from: VULB#62 on May 03, 2017, 06:04:16 PM
Question directed at our MVC visitors: if being aggressive is a good thing, then what other steps has the MVC taken over, say, the last 5 years to specifically develop the conference into a multi-bid conference beyond riding WSU and other members' (UNI, Creighton, etc.) coattails?
On the down side, it caved in to WSU on exit fees and as I understand it, they trashed scheduling mandates.
Looking here for an up side.
TV deals.
Fixed it.
Latest on Adams' poll asking his readers about the 10th MVC team.
[tweet]860578995909406720[/tweet]
Based on the comparative sizes of each school (MuSU and Valp) and the number of alumni each has that's pretty close. Adams is estounded by the volume of votes. UWM is actually losing out to UNO, but the numbers are so low that it doesn't make much difference.
Adams also tweets that he wants to get this poll in the hands of MVC decision makers.
[tweet]860560233579634688[/tweet]
Pretty telling that voters for both Murray and Valpo have stated that both teams should be added, 11 teams be damned.