The Valparaiso Beacons Fan Zone Forum

First game, albeit an exhibition, to open the 2012-13 women's basketball season tonight vs. Holy Cross (Ind.). How well do you think we'll do this season? In case you'd like some info before voting, here's some quick hits...

Last season: 10-21 overall, 5-13 league (T-8th/10 Horizon), HL First Round win @ No. 8 UWM, HL Quarterfinal loss @ No. 1 Green Bay

Notable losses from last year: 5th/Sr. F Ashley Varner (double figure scorer, led team in rebounds, charges taken); Sr. G Ashley Timmerman (Off guard, team's leading 3-point shooter); G Betsy Adams, C Stef Lang, F Mallory Ladd (mid-season) transferred; HC Keith Freeman & AHC Greg Kirby

Notable returners: Jr. F Tabitha Gerardot (Preseason 2nd Team All-Horizon League, 13 PPG, 6.8 RPG last year); Sr. F Gina Lange (Starting post, roughly 9 PPG); Sr. G Laura Richards (Point guard, 4.7 PPG, 3.6 APG); G Jessica Carr (Main reserve) and Shaquira Scott (December ACL injury)

"New"comers: R-Jr. G Charae Richardson (Vincennes transfer ruled ineligible for last season before offseason trip to China); Freshmen guards Abby Dean, Lexi Miller, Sarah Godwin, Jessi Wiedemann

Big non-conference games: Indiana (regular season opener, home), Duke (road), Louisville (road), Michigan (road)

Preseason Poll results: 9th/9 46 points, trailing Youngstown State (8th; 77) *Note: assuming my match is correct, unanimous last would be 27 points if it makes a difference

It will really depend on what type of system our new coach plays, as we really don't have the height that prior successful VU teams had and depended on.  We were successful when I was in school with Marlous Nieuwveen and Tamra Braun in the middle for a several year period, but haven't been able to duplicate that success since that time.  It seems that if you get a solid big in the middle for a mid-major, you will have success (Zane Teilane at WIU when I was in school).  If you don't have that big, you need scorers who don't consistently miss lay-ups.  Whenever I watched a WBB game the last few years, we miss way too many open looks and lay-ups.  Here's hoping we are more disciplined this year.

No audio, but watching Gametracker. The women are shooting about 50% from the field, and have been to the free throw line 10 times in the first half. Is this a more aggressive style of women's basketball we're seeing, or is it just a matter of it being NAIA Holy Cross that we're playing? I'm liking the stats I'm seeing so far.

Tough to tell after one half of play vs. an NAIA opponent, but I'd go with you, run, that this team is going to be more aggressive. Heard a few interviews, seeing the #'s climb, and reading pgmado's tweets, and it seems that we're picking up the tempo this season compared to play under Freeman

Update: About 12 MIN left, and I'm sure we've scored well past last season's average. We could be on pace for 80+ points tonight!

98-49 win vs.  Holy Cross tonight. Year-by-year results do not include exhibitions, but this could be our highest scoring game since we defeated Purdue-Calumet on December 9th, 1998. The score... also 98-49. Solid double up tonight. Gerardot had a great game, and Ieva Jansone was a surprise by leading all scorers with 22 points w/ near perfect shooting all-around

Nice tune up to get everyone going. I think all but a couple of players saw some action, and everyone scored. Can't put a yardstick on this one as it was HC. The true litmus test will be Friday. We should get a good idea of where we are at, and what we need to work on. Take aways from tonight: we need to work on finishing inside. Missed too many bunnies. And free throws. Missed a bunch early on. I think with our lack of size, and the up tempo game it appears we'll play, we'll have some opportunities to get to the stripe. We have to make them count.
Great effort from all tonight. Nice start for the coaching staff.

I didn't go to the game tonight but a friend who I talked to on the phone before retiring for the night couldn't get over the fact that Ieva Jansone shot extremely well and scored over 20 points. My friend kept thinking that if only Freeman had found a way to play Jansone on a depleted team last season what a huge difference it would have made.

Hope Ieva finds someway to showcase to Keith exactly what he missed on when Valpo plays Wright State for the first time.

Didn't Oren speak fairly often last year about Jansone being one of our better shooters?  I thought my old RA was crazy because of the stats she put out, but maybe Keith just had no clue on how to play her style of basketball

valpotx, don't forget Freeman used to always love to scream at players, regardless of how good they might be, since they weren't doing exactly what he wanted them too. Marlous and Mayella were two of his major points of screaming during our time at VU, so I'm guessing something Jansone he just didn't like about her game, like not playing how he wanted her to, which was his way or the highway(bench).

I'll be providing a full analysis at a later time, but this ain't your grandparents Lady 'Saders y'all!  Coach Dorow had the LS'ers playing hot...almost as hot as she is!  :drool:

This team is going to win 18 games.

Good start for the L'ders, even against an NAIA team. A coach who plays to his players strength...Can we introduce the womens basketball coach to the football coach?

GO L'DERS!

Quote from: milanmiracle on November 06, 2012, 08:57:54 PM
Good start for the L'ders, even against an NAIA team. A coach who plays to his players strength...Can we introduce the womens basketball coach to the football coach?

GO L'DERS!

A few questions, milan...

1) How do you feel about the impact Richards will make this year?  Will she finally go from zero to hero?

2) How many wins do YOU see the Lady Saders picking up?

3) More of a personally note...on a scale of 1-10, how do you rate Coach Dorow----first on coaching ability, second on hotty-ness? lol

GO L'DERS!!!!

I won't rate Coach Dorow, but I can definitely say that your standards are quite a bit different than mine

Quote from: valpotx on November 07, 2012, 10:43:36 PM
I won't rate Coach Dorow, but I can definitely say that your standards are quite a bit different than mine

It's not JUST about looks...she has certain intangible qualities.

You're used to getting that Los Angeles, big league tail...I understand we are on different ballfields, so to speak. ;)

All I care about is her turning the program back into what I remember watching at Valpo, competitive each time out, even against the big teams.  We used to play the Notre Dame and Purdue's of the world closely, even beating one or both at some point I believe

Oh, what a bummer the Duke game is during Thanksgiving break!  I thought I was gonna be able to bring my gold student section shirt out of retirement...alas.

Quote from: SadersofthelostArc on November 07, 2012, 09:54:24 PM

Quote from: milanmiracle on November 06, 2012, 08:57:54 PM
Good start for the L'ders, even against an NAIA team. A coach who plays to his players strength...Can we introduce the womens basketball coach to the football coach?

GO L'DERS!

A few questions, milan...

1) How do you feel about the impact Richards will make this year?  Will she finally go from zero to hero?

2) How many wins do YOU see the Lady Saders picking up?

3) More of a personally note...on a scale of 1-10, how do you rate Coach Dorow----first on coaching ability, second on hotty-ness? lol

GO L'DERS!!!!

Basically this is the evaluation period, and I like to give the coach time to adapt to the players and the conference. Along those lines I am certainly not ready to rate on coaching, and I certainly don't rate on "hotty-ness"...If they're a good coach (male or female), they could be purple for all I care.

If the women could drag their game out a little extra tonight I'd greatly appreciate it.  Maybe an overtime game or a game close enough to warrant some fouling, can't make the second game until about 8:15.  Go get um Valpo

"Holy Cow!" A double digit win over a Big 10 school - Fanf-----gtastic! We want more. CONGRATULATIONS! GO VALPO! :thumbsup:

Good start to the season, though IU did look like a pretty poor Big 10 team

Wonderful confidence builder for the women.  I don't care if IU ends up being the worst team in the BIG 10, any time you can beat someone from one of the BCS conferences I will take it!

IU only won about 6 or 7 games last season, and they've never been a big name team in the B1G on the women's side. I'm happy with the win, but we need to keep it up especially with the schedule we have this season.

Still, they are a BIG team and we won impressively not on a desperation 3 against a much bigger team.  Very good effort.  Let's hope it continues.

New thread open to discuss the game....jump on in over there, the water's fine!!!!

Is it too early for this?   Based on first impressions by those of you who saw the opener and are also familiar with recent past Valpo WBB teams, care to share an analysis of this team in comparison to previous teams? The MBB side of the basketball forum is filled with that kind of thing.  Be nice to have someone do a good analysis of talent, style of play, conditioning, attitude, etc.

IU is not a great team but this is a big win for us. This years team will play at a pace we haven't seen for years.  Richards strength is that she can run all game long.  She will be much better in this offense over the slow version we have had in recent memory.

We are not very big so running is a good way to hide that.

Dorow got more last night from Horton and Jansone than Freeman got in 2 years (Horton) and last year (Jansone). 

It is very early but we are headed in the right direction.

I am sure that all of you have heard this before, but confidence is just huge in basketball as it is in every performance based activity.  Winning this game could go a long way in bolstering the confidence of some players that haven't had much to be confident about in recent years.  I give Coach Dorow a lot of credit for injecting a no fear attitude so quickly into this team.  I am sure that most people looked at this game on the schedule and thought that here we go again, another B1G vs small blowout. So glad the coaching staff and team didn't think that.

PS  IU has one of the best players to come out of Concordia Lutheran High School on their team.  I don't know if VU recruited Andrea Newbauer out of high school, but she and Angie Doerffler (VU softball) were a very good back court for the 3A state champion Lady Cadets.

We saw the women's game and believe me Newbauer isn't anything special that's for sure...we were disappointed...she did not start from what I understand... we didn't see the first half but our kids were a fightin' bunch that's for sure...we were ahead the entire game...it was a great win vs. a big name school, even tho IU is not a big time program right now...by the way, IU plays a 6'6" girl in the middle

Quote from: FWalum on November 09, 2012, 09:38:21 PM
Wonderful confidence builder for the women.  I don't care if IU ends up being the worst team in the BIG 10, any time you can beat someone from one of the BCS conferences I will take it!

Ding ding ding!!! I couldn't agree more!

Hot start to the season has not only cooled off, it's currently frozen solid. Eerily reminiscent of 2009-10 when VU had a program-best 3-0 start and proceeded to lose 9 straight, this year's team has in a similar funk.

As a recap, VU opened the season with wins against Indiana and Purdue Calumet, and now has lost five straight (IUPUI, Butler, #4 Duke, Western Illinois, St. Louis). Valpo lost 53-47 to the Billikens today despite getting a great start, leading 22-11 at one point. Good deal of VU turnovers, mostly on long passes across the court, transition plays. St. Louis did a much better job taking care of the ball and capitalizing on Valpo's mistakes. One positive though was the return of Laura Richards after missing 3 games (concussion). Also, Gerardot was pretty good in spurts today, almost nabbing a double-double.

Quote from: KL31NY on December 01, 2012, 03:23:09 PMHot start to the season has not only cooled off, it's currently frozen solid. Eerily reminiscent of 2009-10 when VU had a program-best 3-0 start and proceeded to lose 9 straight, this year's team has in a similar funk.

I think the more interesting item is that we beat IU.  This is going to be a tough season.  In watching us play against Butler I was struck by one glaring weakness.  We have an almost entire team that can not shoot.  Other than Weidemann and perhaps Dean any shot over about 8 feet out looks like it will be an adventure. 

It will be interesting to see what kind of players the new coach brings in.  Apparently we did not sign any in the early signing period.

indyValpo, it's understandable that the women's team hasn't signed anyone in the early signing period. Other than believing in words, what did Coach Dorow have to show a recruit about how she'll fit in the Valpo Basketball program, when the recruit had seen Valpo play a game yet. I can't wait to see what players do sign later in the season, once Valpo has some conference games under their belts. It will be a tough selling point, but eventually the women's team will be back in the discussion of recruits that will consider Valpo regularly.

I think it will be a tough,learning experience for Dorow and her staff. It'll take time to figure out what the players strengths are, and play to them. One thing she does have, that Freeman didn't is healthy bodies. Someone mentioned we don't have shooters. I feel we do, but they aren't being played, and put into possitions to score. I suspect that will come. The substitution patterns seem a bit odd at times as well. I like the fact that they have scheduled some quality competition early on, but they may have overdone it a bit. Sometimes, those beat downs can have an adverse affect on a young and developing team. We'll see how Saturday goes.

Quote from: jack on December 06, 2012, 06:39:03 AMSomeone mentioned we don't have shooters. I feel we do, but they aren't being played, and put into possitions to score.

Dorow is playing 12 of our 13 players every game so is our shooter the 13th?  I do agree we have not figured out who can do what. I like the fact that she is playing a lot of people trying to figure that out.  This will help us out in the long run.

Quote from: jack on December 06, 2012, 06:39:03 AMThe substitution patterns seem a bit odd at times as well

I agree but think it relates back to assessing the players.

It'll be intersting to see how she approaches the Loiusville game. I have notice times where, in her rotations, she only has 1 or 2 actual shooters on the floor. I think Richards is seeing this too, and trying to put up more shots then she's comfortable with. One thing I have notice is the reduced playing time for Carr. There are games when she sees less than 5 minutes of playing time. If memory serves, she set scoring records at her high school, which was one of the big reasons Freeman brought her on board. Unfortunately she was hurt and forced to play a lot of minutes last season due to lack of healthy bodies, and didn't put up consistent numbers scoring, but I believe she is healthy now, though I could be wrong. Jansone is the type of player that gets better with minutes played, but she gets very few at a time. Horton can get hot, if we give her the ball in scoring possition.  We have a couple of the freshman that put up some good numbers at their high schools as well. Watching them play though, it just doesn't appear that we run plays that would set up a shooter. Richardson does well at penetration, but she seems to force up something inside rather then kick out to a waiting shooter. I like the fact that we are holding our own on the boards, but if our second chance opportunities come up empty, we are gaining anything. I'm also not a big fan of the massive substitutions that Dorrow does in the final few minutes of a game. I have yet to see a benefit with that approach. 

Good to know that the {a former} Crusaders can beat a BCS school on the road.

http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2012/dec/16/Womens12_16_12---fgcu_whoops/ (http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2012/dec/16/Womens12_16_12---fgcu_whoops/)

Never understood her dismissal from the squad. Congrats Betsy.

I don't think she was dismissed. If I recall, she graduated last spring, and used the Graduate transfer year, after she didn't play last season?

That's what someone said on the forum at least.  She graduated, and was essentially recruited to that school where a former assistant coach is

Add that to last year's list of Things Messed Up With a Capital F, somewhere after Skyler Gick's Back:

the returning captain would rather graduate and take her game elsewhere than take an injury redshirt and star for the same messed up team again.

way to land on her feet, though:  perfect weather here, close-to-perfect women's program.  gah.

LaPorte, not sure if Valpo had the master's program she wanted, and obviously Florida Gulf Coast did, plus had a former assistant coach (Abby Scharlow?) that she liked, so why not go where she can be successful in her last year before becoming a coach somewhere?

Hey, I don't blame her.  I came down here too and it's way better than NWI.  I'm just saying you know things are bad in your program when she'd rather start over somewhere else.

The graduate transfer rule helped that decision though. If Valpo didn't have the program she wanted for a masters, then why not go somewhere that does, and allows her to play her final season. Yes, it sucks not having her bringing the ball downcourt for the Crusaders, but we have the cards we're dealt with. I just hope that Coach Dorow is out there recruiting some height so we don't look like midgets in the future.

Anyone follow Western Michigan tonight? Apparently we shot over 50% from the field, 9-12 from the behind the arc, scored a go-ahead basket with 8 seconds to go, but lost by one after giving up a winning basket with 2 seconds left.

That's exactly what happened. The women really wanted this game, especially since Michigan will be a tough turnaround game tomorrow. I honestly think Coach Dorow planned to play tonight as the big game, since tomorrow night was going to be tough at the U of Mich. For those that do care, the women's game will be on B1G Ten Network tomorrow at 6PM ET, or 5PM CT.

I think we need to start calling Coach Dorow "Coach Swiffer" because she has spent most of her time cleaning up the previous regime's mess!!! 

We have been good at the ARC this year...unfortunately, we've played all of four games at the ARC.  Hard to blame Coach Dorow for not being able to win consistently on the road with this bunch.  It's almost as if the schedule was set up to sabotage her opening season.  Hmmm...anyone know how much input Keith (more importantly Kirby) had on the scheduling for this year? 

A win tomorrow at Michigan would go a long way to solidifying our spot on the NCAA bubble.  We downed a very solid Indiana team, the IPFW win will carry weight, and we battled to top 10 teams and the scores were not indicative of just how close those games were.  Believe me, a win tomorrow night will put the NCAA goon squad (read: tourney selection committee) on notice.

Quote from: SadersofthelostArc on December 19, 2012, 11:30:37 PM
I think we need to start calling Coach Dorow "Coach Swiffer" because she has spent most of her time cleaning up the previous regime's mess!!! 

We have been good at the ARC this year...unfortunately, we've played all of four games at the ARC.  Hard to blame Coach Dorow for not being able to win consistently on the road with this bunch.  It's almost as if the schedule was set up to sabotage her opening season.  Hmmm...anyone know how much input Keith (more importantly Kirby) had on the scheduling for this year? 

A win tomorrow at Michigan would go a long way to solidifying our spot on the NCAA bubble.  We downed a very solid Indiana team, the IPFW win will carry weight, and we battled to top 10 teams and the scores were not indicative of just how close those games were.  Believe me, a win tomorrow night will put the NCAA goon squad (read: tourney selection committee) on notice.

Ah...... the morning chuckle provided by Sader.  A year later and still clueless about the NCAA and the bubble.

More like Sader is clueless to the fact that the women's selection committee doesn't pick mid-major at-larges. They will most assuredly go for at-large money-making high majors because the tournament doesn't make money on their side.

Quote from: SadersofthelostArc on December 19, 2012, 11:30:37 PM
I think we need to start calling Coach Dorow "Coach Swiffer" because she has spent most of her time cleaning up the previous regime's mess!!! 

We have been good at the ARC this year...unfortunately, we've played all of four games at the ARC.  Hard to blame Coach Dorow for not being able to win consistently on the road with this bunch.  It's almost as if the schedule was set up to sabotage her opening season.  Hmmm...anyone know how much input Keith (more importantly Kirby) had on the scheduling for this year? 

A win tomorrow at Michigan would go a long way to solidifying our spot on the NCAA bubble.  We downed a very solid Indiana team, the IPFW win will carry weight, and we battled to top 10 teams and the scores were not indicative of just how close those games were.  Believe me, a win tomorrow night will put the NCAA goon squad (read: tourney selection committee) on notice.

You've spent way too much time in Washington or Colorado lately - smoking too much of something.  This team is playing OK, but will not be on the selection committee's radar.  Massey and RTR have the team winning 9 or 10 games this season. 
http://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=8361&s=193574 (http://www.masseyratings.com/team.php?t=8361&s=193574)
http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_281_Women.html (http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_281_Women.html)

For the first year with Coach Dorow, if this team gets to 12 or 13 wins before the HL tournament I'd say that we have some good seasons in the near future.

All I'm saying is that Coach D has been quite an...asset...to our program.

Also, valporun, I know you are probably in the know about how the NCAA cross country selection committee works, but how about leavin' the hoops talk to the big boys (aka those of us "in the know)?

Quote from: SadersofthelostArc on December 20, 2012, 01:11:10 PM
All I'm saying is that Coach D has been quite an...asset...to our program.

Also, valporun, I know you are probably in the know about how the NCAA cross country selection committee works, but how about leavin' the hoops talk to the big boys (aka those of us "in the know)?

:lol:  :crazy: :rotfl:

You do realize you are a cartoon character, right?

Quote from: StlVUFan on December 20, 2012, 02:54:36 PM

Quote from: SadersofthelostArc on December 20, 2012, 01:11:10 PM
All I'm saying is that Coach D has been quite an...asset...to our program.

Also, valporun, I know you are probably in the know about how the NCAA cross country selection committee works, but how about leavin' the hoops talk to the big boys (aka those of us "in the know)?

:lol:  :crazy: :rotfl:

You do realize you are a cartoon character, right?

:clap: :bowdown:

The Horizon League is not in the women's basketball radar after Green Bay. They don't look at the Horizon League for teams to fill more than the automatic bid in their 64-team field. An cross country doesn't really give too many at-large bids, unless the team is outside of the top 25, and didn't qualify from the regional they ran.

Women's basketball is even more biased toward the big schools than Men's basketball is.

By. A. Mile.

There is no hype whatsoever for mid-majors, outside of South Dakota State a few years ago, Green Bay, etc.  Sort of like how a few Men's pundits are aware of Xavier, Butler, Gonzaga, and Memphis and nothing else.  But most Men's pundits are keenly aware of lots more than that.

No Women's powerhouses are ever afraid to come play a mid-major on their home court because they know the stands are going to be at least half-empty.

It is not too hard to imagine that recruits favor the big schools by a MUCH wider margin in Women's basketball than in Men's basketball.

A couple of years ago, Green Bay got an at-large bid.  Valpo is not even in the same galaxy with Green Bay when it comes to the bubble.  Detroit is the closest thing to a rival for the Phoenix, and Detroit is not in the same galaxy either.  You think Butler owned this conference on the Men's side?  Not even close, compared to Green Bay on the Women's side.

There's nothing wrong with fantasy, of course.  I'm all for declining to prematurely close a book before the story is over, so to speak, but just as I try not to predict demise, I also try not to predict success.  Why even get worked up over March before January even begins?

Quote from: StlVUFan on December 20, 2012, 02:54:36 PM

Quote from: SadersofthelostArc on December 20, 2012, 01:11:10 PM
All I'm saying is that Coach D has been quite an...asset...to our program.

Also, valporun, I know you are probably in the know about how the NCAA cross country selection committee works, but how about leavin' the hoops talk to the big boys (aka those of us "in the know)?

:lol:  :crazy: :rotfl:

You do realize you are a cartoon character, right?

I AM?!?  I had no idea.  It feels like you and I have had this conversation before.  /deja vu

For those who get the B1G Ten Network on your cable or dish systems, the women play the University of Michigan Wolverines at 5PM CT, or in about 10 minutes.

For those of you who don't know, since clearly everyone is confused about the whole Betsy Adams situation, she didn't leave the program Coach Dorow released her. Crazy right? They told her that the incoming freshmen with no college experience were better then her and she wouldn't see the floor. She wasn't given a chance to stay they just took away her scholarship after all she has done for the program. You are telling me that a three year captain, a three year starter, the leader on and off the floor wouldn't play? This girl bleeds brown and gold, respected by her team, and has so much heart. She would never just hang up her jersey and leave. She wouldn't do that to her team or the program. I am happy though that she is actually at a successful program and is doing great. She deserves a great last year at a great school. And after watching these crusaders play I don't see any of the newcomers playing over her.The half time report for this Michigan game talked about how Valpo is lacking leadership and experience, there is Betsy Adams for ya. But good for her I hope to see her in the NCAA tournament, something she would have never experienced at VU.

i think the biggest bit of irony to come from sader's comments here are that he was such an avid supporter of freeman before and right after his firing, and now all of a sudden, he's saying the new coach has to clean up his 'mess.'

GSmith, I do have to agree with you. Why Richards and Carr over Adams doesn't make sense. I mean Carr was a shooter in high school, but she's not D-I shooting material, and Richards is like Buggs, an offensive liability. Adams was more of an all-around player than these two.

Quote from: covufan on December 20, 2012, 02:57:21 PM

Quote from: StlVUFan on December 20, 2012, 02:54:36 PM

Quote from: SadersofthelostArc on December 20, 2012, 01:11:10 PM
All I'm saying is that Coach D has been quite an...asset...to our program.

Also, valporun, I know you are probably in the know about how the NCAA cross country selection committee works, but how about leavin' the hoops talk to the big boys (aka those of us "in the know)?

:lol:  :crazy: :rotfl:

You do realize you are a cartoon character, right?

:clap: :bowdown:

And here come the lemmings...

Quote from: valporun on December 20, 2012, 03:25:39 PM
The Horizon League is not in the women's basketball radar after Green Bay. They don't look at the Horizon League for teams to fill more than the automatic bid in their 64-team field. An cross country doesn't really give too many at-large bids, unless the team is outside of the top 25, and didn't qualify from the regional they ran.

I appreciate the history lesson re: the cross country.  No sports fans really follow competitive running, so it is an eye-opener for the rest of us to see how that activity functions.

But, if you think the NCAA goon squad doesn't have an eye on the Horizon, then you are more out of the loop than I thought.  My guy with ties to the selection committee has mentioned that they often discuss Horizon and other mid-majors as alternatives for those low at-larges.  Coach D doesn't take this job otherwise. 

Quote from: vuweathernerd on December 20, 2012, 06:12:35 PM
i think the biggest bit of irony to come from sader's comments here are that he was such an avid supporter of freeman before and right after his firing, and now all of a sudden, he's saying the new coach has to clean up his 'mess.'

Keith and I are not on speaking terms, so you do the math. 

Quote from: GSmithINBB8 on December 20, 2012, 06:05:34 PM
For those of you who don't know, since clearly everyone is confused about the whole Betsy Adams situation, she didn't leave the program Coach Dorow released her. Crazy right? They told her that the incoming freshmen with no college experience were better then her and she wouldn't see the floor. She wasn't given a chance to stay they just took away her scholarship after all she has done for the program. You are telling me that a three year captain, a three year starter, the leader on and off the floor wouldn't play? This girl bleeds brown and gold, respected by her team, and has so much heart. She would never just hang up her jersey and leave. She wouldn't do that to her team or the program. I am happy though that she is actually at a successful program and is doing great. She deserves a great last year at a great school. And after watching these crusaders play I don't see any of the newcomers playing over her.The half time report for this Michigan game talked about how Valpo is lacking leadership and experience, there is Betsy Adams for ya. But good for her I hope to see her in the NCAA tournament, something she would have never experienced at VU.

Good to see Betsy's grandma checking in with the board!  Welcome aboard, Granny Adams!

(Or, it's just Keith on a ghost account trolling us and Coach D)

Quote from: valporun on December 20, 2012, 06:24:47 PM
GSmith, I do have to agree with you. Why Richards and Carr over Adams doesn't make sense. I mean Carr was a shooter in high school, but she's not D-I shooting material, and Richards is like Buggs, an offensive liability. Adams was more of an all-around player than these two.

Let me put this in terms you can understand...

Keeping Adams around would have been like trying to enter a 5k distance jogger into the 800 meter dash....ain't gonna do it, ain't gonna work.  And the way Coach D wants to have these girls get-up-and-go, fast paced "O," it's like the 800m dash on crack...this is a 5 x 94 ft relay and she needs her horses.

Make sense?

Whether I am or am not related to Betsy doesn't matter. Which I am not. I am just a fan just like you. I wasn't attacking anyone anyways I was just letting everyone know what actually happened. But it's ok it doesn't matter, would you like to know why? It'll tell ya anyway....because you'll see her in the NCAA tourney while VU doesn't get through the horizon league tourney. But you are saying that VU doesn't need her when she is playing at a better school, with a better program, doing very well...ok? You are also saying she is too slow? Have you watched FGCU play? You do realize they run a faster paced offense then VU does right?

Tonight's 73-32 L to Michigan on the Big Ten Network is scheduled to re-air at midnight central time and I think it might air 8am central when more people will be awake. I know that doesn't sound like a very interesting proposition for most. Just out of love for broadcasting and the rarity of seeing a VUWBB on any format other than HLN or in person, I'm gonna give it a look.

Quote from: KL31NY on December 20, 2012, 11:00:37 PM
Tonight's 73-32 L to Michigan on the Big Ten Network is scheduled to re-air at midnight central time and I think it might air 8am central when more people will be awake. I know that doesn't sound like a very interesting proposition for most. Just out of love for broadcasting and the rarity of seeing a VUWBB on any format other than HLN or in person, I'm gonna give it a look.

C'mon man, give us hardcore fans at least a LITTLE credit. :)

Saying FGCU is a 'great school' is an absolute joke.  If you are speaking about their women's basketball program only, then great...but let's not say 'great school' overall...

Good school maybe when you talk about facilities and funding.  They have a very nice athletics complex and are pretty competitive in most of their sports.  Men's Soccer is usually in the regional rankings every year. Atlantic Sun Conference.

Quote from: valporun on December 20, 2012, 06:24:47 PM
GSmith, I do have to agree with you. Why Richards and Carr over Adams doesn't make sense. I mean Carr was a shooter in high school, but she's not D-I shooting material, and Richards is like Buggs, an offensive liability. Adams was more of an all-around player than these two.

It is a puzzler why we let her go, however,  Richards and Carr are PG's while Adams was a SG.  I never saw Carr play in HS but she must have made alot of points on layups because she is not an outside shooter.

At one point last night we had Richards, Carr and Miller on the floor at the same time against a zone.  3 PG's, none who can shoot passing the ball around the perimeter. That combo will never work.

Luckily we only have a few more months of Richards left, and not sure that Carr will stay in the future plans. I'm not familiar enough with Miller yet to know where she fits. The women need some shooters, besides Lange and Gerardot. Of course, Lange graduates, but after that, not sure what shooters we have in this system.

Quote from: valporun on December 21, 2012, 10:33:31 AM
Luckily we only have a few more months of Richards left, and not sure that Carr will stay in the future plans. I'm not familiar enough with Miller yet to know where she fits. The women need some shooters, besides Lange and Gerardot. Of course, Lange graduates, but after that, not sure what shooters we have in this system.

Well, that's an unneccessary slam.

Non-conference season ending soon. We host Ball State Saturday and then NIU the following weekend. The rest of my update will consist of a quick summary of the current season and a throwback to last year's heroic win over the Cards...

I feel like every year for last five years or so that I keep saying this team is better than its record. While it keeps getting watered down with extended use, I feel that's true this season. We're only 3-8, and have lost eight of our last nine. We've been blown out by some good teams, but we also came close to wins against Saint Louis, at IUPUI, and at Western Michigan. And we're much deeper this year than we were last year, which takes me back to Ball State.

Last year in Muncie, we dressed only seven players and only five at 100% health despite having a 15-player roster to open the year (Richardson and Jansone ineligible (NCAA), Adams, S. Lang, and Callaway out for the season with injuries, E. Lang and Ladd had left the team (offseason, 6 games in respectively), Horton out for BSU (concussion) ~ Timmerman (shin) and Carr (hip) played through). In the first half, we lost Scott to an ACL tear during a contested layup. In the second half, Gerardot fouled out. Yet despite all that adversity, we won 67-53 finishing with just five players. We played a phenomenal game on both ends of the floor, and now this year we have the home court and many more active players dressing as advantages. Hope this year's VU-BSU meeting, like last year's, provides another shining moment and a quick spark moving forward

The coaching staff continues to tweek with the starting line up with no luck. If we lose this one, you have to put the loss on the coaches. It's a given that we are struggling with the shot this year. So why in the world won't the coaches hold shooting practices? These ladies need to get back to the basics. I don't believe I've seen another D1 Ladies team that lack the fundamental basics of shooting, like this squad does. It's kind of embarrasing to watch really. So the ladies a few days off for the holidays and come back to a long practice to do what? Run, run, and run some more Really? I don't think running is our problem, and it probably wore these ladies out after the break they had. It's obvious they have no energy today. We need to coach smarter, period.  That was probably one of the most pathetic halves I've seen in a long time. The anouncers are stating they don't look like they have any flow. Ya think? Watch the substitution pattern and that question can be quickly answered.
The damage done by playing the likes of Duke, Michigan, and Louisville, and the other power houses we've played to this point it growing evident. You have taken a young group, with a new coaching staff, who all have struggled with their confidence, and re-assured them that they probably have much to worry about. Does anyone here see a value in playing the schedule we have played thus far? We lost to Western Michigan - should not have happened. Lost to Butler. should not have happened. Now we are trying to lose to the worst team we've played yet.
Continuing to try and convince yourself that next season will be better is getting old. Until this coaching staff gets these ladies back to the basics of shooting, all the running in the world isn't going to help. You can't continue to ask Tabitha to carry the load.
The first 5 minutes of the second half will tell the tale here. Lets find out exactly what kind of coaching we have.

Jack, I am with you.  I watched the first half and it was probably the worst half I have ever seen.  Apparantly in the second half someone actually ran some plays to get Weidemann some shots.  She is our best bet besides Geradot to actually make an occasional basket.  Richards and Richardson play real hard but they simply can not shoot.  Probably the two poorest shooting starting guards in D1. But they did win and they really needed that.

The same minds that schedule football must have dreamed up this one as well. 

It is still early in the Dorow era but there are definitely some concerns.  Not signing anyone in the early signing period is extemely troubling.  More so than the men's side, almost all of the decent talent on the women's side goes early.  Certainly no one with size and ability is still out there. 

Maybe if the Lady 'Saders weren't counted on to be road warriors early on in the season, things would look a little brighter.  They are 3-1 at home with wins over Indiana and Ball State.  Unfortunately, we have had to play 8 times on the road already and Duke, Louisville and Michigan were three of those games.  IUPUI and Western Michigan were disappointing losses, but understandable on the road.  Given the rebuilding process, learning the new system, etc, what did you guys expect?  They are 4-8 and could very easily be 6-6 (maybe if we didn't schedule heavyweights like Louisville and Duke we'd even be above .500).

And don't worry about recruiting....Coach D will bring in talent...she is taking care of getting the program on the floor going the right direction at the moment.  And it is headed that way...let's talk again on Selection Sunday and see where we REALLY are.

It's time for reality Sader. "We could be" and "If" don't work. Are you watching the same games we are? We are heading in the wrong direction. Helm is the only coach on the sidelines that has a clue what it takes to play at this level. You mention wins at home vs IU and the latest vs Ball State. IU does not belong competing in the big ten. They are, by far, the worst team that has cmpeted in that conference in many years. Given that, they are better than Ball State, who had us down 25 - 8 early. That should never happen. Our squad couldn't have come in less prepared, and the coaches had 3 days to get prepared. This Ball State squad was weaker than last years, and we went down there and competed with 6 ladies, lost Scott for the season, and beat them handely on their own floor. Watching these ladies play, I see one very telling thing. They show no confidence in anything they are doing. That comes from coaching. This squad isn't buying into what this coaching staff is trying to do, and watching them, I don't think I'm clear on what that is either. Again, I think it was a huge mistake to take this young team on the road to get waxed by these first rate teams. There is no arguement I can see to the contrary. If it was done to see where these ladies were from a competitive standpoint, It was a huge mistake. The home game vs a very weak Ball State team told us all what we needed to know there. We need shooters, period. I believe we have shooters, but we aren't getting a plan together to run an offense that puts them in a good possition to shoot. We don't have quick, sharp passing, and we have a couple of pt guards that don't see the floor well enough to find the shooters. In the Ball State game, we had a couple of players that looked to be dribbling the air out of the ball. Get rid of it! move it around. Darrow has this knack for pulling players if even one mistake is made, rather then letting them get into the flow of the game. I also feel she tries to hard to convince everyone that the recruit she brought with her is ready for this level. I haven't seen it yet.
The coaches, more so than the players, have a lot of work to do to get this thing turned around. We have some talent, but we need to play to it's strengths. We will always be the smallest team on the floor, so we better learn how to harness our speed and run the floor. Up tempo will be the only plan that will work for us. If we're not concentrating on that, then why do we spend countless hours running in practice, rather than shooting? Many questions to ponder at this point.

What I don't see on this team is the one thing that Coach Dorow has seemed to push aside. I don't see a true floor leader on this team. We had a true floor leader in the one player that she so visibly pushed away in Betsy Adams. She was our best option at getting this team to work together. The only real reason I'll accept that Dorow forced her out was because she was too much of a Freeman disciple that she wouldn't work in the system. I'm sorry, but I just don't see any leadership on this team, and I'm still not interested in Richards play any further, she's about as good as Buggs, which isn't for much anymore.

I think Adams departure was mutual. Dorow wanted to "rid" the team of a major Freeman influence, and Adams didn't like the direction they would head, with a few other changes that were made. I'm glad it worked out for Adams.

I don't see how you are able to blame a first year coach for the season thus far. They have been in a position in every game (minus versus the 3 powerhouses) in the late 2nd half to win. They just haven't been able to finish a game off. She has to do whatever she can with what Freeman had there, which isn't the best of talent. In the future, I believe things will be better because Dorow was able to get girls of D1 quality to a D2 school, so she has to be able to recruit well. And also I believe if I am not mistaken there actually is one girl committed to Valpo next year.

Jack, normally, I agree with you.  I think you are WAY too quick to judge Dorow and this team.  "If" and "we could be" do matter here....how would we ever compete with Duke or Louisville in the first year of rebuilding?  Those are absurd games to have on our schedule.  And the win over IU is meaningful.  Yes, they have been down for a couple of years.  They also won 50+ games from 2007-2010 including 28 games in the Big 10.  Don't be so short-sighted when it comes to IU.  They will be back and it is a very good win for VU and where we are right now.


I'm watching the same games you guys are watching.  I just will wait at least until the end of the season to judge Coach's methods.  And to say the coaches have a lot more work to do than the girls, well....we will just have to agree to disagree.  Unless you think the 66 losses over the last three years were all the coaches' faults and these super-talented players are just being held back? 

Quote from: SadersofthelostArc on December 30, 2012, 11:42:39 PM
Jack, normally, I agree with you.  I think you are WAY too quick to judge Dorow and this team.  "If" and "we could be" do matter here....how would we ever compete with Duke or Louisville in the first year of rebuilding?  Those are absurd games to have on our schedule.  And the win over IU is meaningful.  Yes, they have been down for a couple of years.  They also won 50+ games from 2007-2010 including 28 games in the Big 10.  Don't be so short-sighted when it comes to IU.  They will be back and it is a very good win for VU and where we are right now.


I'm watching the same games you guys are watching.  I just will wait at least until the end of the season to judge Coach's methods.  And to say the coaches have a lot more work to do than the girls, well....we will just have to agree to disagree.  Unless you think the 66 losses over the last three years were all the coaches' faults and these super-talented players are just being held back?

how would we ever compete with Duke or Louisville in the first year of rebuilding?  Those are absurd games to have on our schedule.
You are making my point. Who do you think scheduled these games?? It wasn't Freeman. This is why I question some decisions by this staff.
Please show me where I refered to these ladies as "super talented". Never happened. In fact, I feel we have the least amount of talent at key possitions then most teams in our conference. Given that, we are not putting these players in the best possition, based on their available talents to have success. For most teams, their success runs through their guard possitions, whether it be distributing the ball, or shooting. We start the game with Richards, and Richardson. Richards strenth is deffence, but she does a decent job of getting the ball up the floor. She passes the ball around the perimeter, but you rarely see her snap it inside to a cutting player for a bucket. Next time we play, concentrate on this aspect. She's 1 step slow of getting it to the open player. We dribble too much, and end up forcing up a perimeter shot when the clock runs down. Richardson does a decent job of getting the ball up the floor, but when it comes to the other players, she has tunnel vision. I don't feel she sees the floor well, and she's not a good enough shooter to be counted on to score. She does a decent job of driving the basket, but you'll never see her kick it out to an open shooter. She forces way too many shots inside, with very little success. Again, her and Richards are defensive players, but they do little to generate offense. We had some nice stops agains a lot of teams this season, but we rarely make them count on the other end. We have players that see the floor better, and could be counted on to score more if we could get the ball to them through some designed plays. We're starting off each game trying to run an offense with defensive players.
Jansone is never put in with a purpose. She's always in to spot another player. That's a mistake. She needs to be in at a 3 or 4, with plays designed for her slicing to the hole. I haven't seen that yet. She has talent, but when she plays 2 minutes here, and 2 minutes there, it's impossible to get any potential out of her. It's tough for us to sub in and out based on match ups with the opposing teams subs, because we just don't have enough of a flow to match up well with anyone. Even still, we don't seem to sub with a purpose. Horton is starting to play well, and could probably help out more if given more minutes. I would start her in the next game and give her a chance to show she deserves it. So much of this game, more so with the ladies, is about confidence, and you can't expect much confidence from players that see the floor in short spurts, if that.
I'll say it again. We must work to our strengths to be successful this season. Our best strength is speed. We aren't utilizing it properly. We have the horses to run the floor for an entire game, if we sub properly. We should be leading the league in fast break points. That also comes down to seeing the floor. How often do you see our starting guards getting the ball out in front? They typically dribble the air out of it, and then pass it around the perimeter.
I'm not trying to over-simplify things, or call any specific players out on their performance, as it always comes down to the coaches realizing what's going on, and adapting accordingly. I am also one to give any new coach their fair shot at getting things going. Dorow did inherit Freeman's players, but like Freeman, I don't see her getting the most from what she has. Size will be an issue moving forward to next year. I'm sure she sees that and will do her best to get some bigs to commit. 

Good luck today Ladies.

Lady 'Saders win again at home!  Whaddaya know, they struggle on the road but win at home...where have I heard that before? 

Where are all the Lady Sader Haters now?!?! 

Beating Northern Illinois isn't that impressive. I'm happy with the win, but I don't know if the women can really handle that early scoring pace they started with. Somewhere in there, they fell apart, and couldn't get some of the layups they needed to fall. I do like rotating some of the freshmen into games, but we're still missing a real, honest floor leader. I haven't seen her in action yet. Hopefully, Coach Dorow is recruiting her, otherwise I'm going to be holding out hope for a floor leader in this program for a few more years. Also, we need to be more physical inside, with less finesse on layups, and more attack of the backboard to get layups in the nylon. Yeah, I know a few people aren't going to like my opinion of yesterday's game, but the opponent didn't impress me, nor did our play after that initial scoring pace we put on.

Instead of being a naysaying pessimist, why not be happy that they strung together a strong offensive showing early in the game?  Maybe that is what we are headed towards, rather than it being a fluke. 

Again, Dorow can only work with what she has at the moment.  She didn't sign these players.  Keith did, and who knows how much influence Kirby had on that??  (That's a conversation for another time.)  Expecting her to have a floor general and banger downlow with the same collection we had from last year is silly.  Give her a couple of years of recruiting and development and then assess.  In the meantime, don't be surprised if Coach D sneaks us into a postseason tourney or two ;) 

Unrelated note, how long do you guys think it will be until Tracy begins to get some endorsement deals in NWI and Valpo?  She obviously has the right looks for it, and now that she is starting to pile up the wins I have a feeling we will see her face slapped all over local products and billboards.  Thoughts??

Quote from: SadersofthelostArc on January 06, 2013, 05:54:41 PM
Instead of being a naysaying pessimist, why not be happy that they strung together a strong offensive showing early in the game?  Maybe that is what we are headed towards, rather than it being a fluke. 

Again, Dorow can only work with what she has at the moment.  She didn't sign these players.  Keith did, and who knows how much influence Kirby had on that??  (That's a conversation for another time.)  Expecting her to have a floor general and banger downlow with the same collection we had from last year is silly.  Give her a couple of years of recruiting and development and then assess.  In the meantime, don't be surprised if Coach D sneaks us into a postseason tourney or two ;) 

Unrelated note, how long do you guys think it will be until Tracy begins to get some endorsement deals in NWI and Valpo?  She obviously has the right looks for it, and now that she is starting to pile up the wins I have a feeling we will see her face slapped all over local products and billboards. Thoughts??

Yes, it was way to early to bwe hitting the sauce.

Quote from: SadersofthelostArc on January 06, 2013, 05:54:41 PMUnrelated note, how long do you guys think it will be until Tracy begins to get some endorsement deals in NWI and Valpo?  She obviously has the right looks for it, and now that she is starting to pile up the wins I have a feeling we will see her face slapped all over local products and billboards.  Thoughts??

If you're being really serious I always used to think that Keith Freeman should have gotten a commercial. Now there's a guy who could have made a an "Old Spice" commercial. Seriously!




:)

Beating NIU in the women's game helps us in our record versus them at least.  We are now a whopping 2-17 all-time versus NIU  ???

Quote from: SadersofthelostArc on January 06, 2013, 05:54:41 PM
Instead of being a naysaying pessimist, why not be happy that they strung together a strong offensive showing early in the game?  Maybe that is what we are headed towards, rather than it being a fluke. 

Again, Dorow can only work with what she has at the moment.  She didn't sign these players.  Keith did, and who knows how much influence Kirby had on that??  (That's a conversation for another time.)  Expecting her to have a floor general and banger downlow with the same collection we had from last year is silly.  Give her a couple of years of recruiting and development and then assess.  In the meantime, don't be surprised if Coach D sneaks us into a postseason tourney or two ;) 

Unrelated note, how long do you guys think it will be until Tracy begins to get some endorsement deals in NWI and Valpo?  She obviously has the right looks for it, and now that she is starting to pile up the wins I have a feeling we will see her face slapped all over local products and billboards.  Thoughts??

How do you expect to be taken seriously, when you say things like "piling up the wins".
It was a good win from a confidence standpoint, but as mentioned, it was against a fairly weak NIU team. It was good to see richardson get some points, but we still lack a flow to our offense. Against a formidable apponent, we would have been in trouble. Not being a naysayer, just stating my observations. I get a bit concerned when the coach says " I thought we executed our offense well." I've been around this game a long, long time, and I would not make that assesment. Not once during the contest did we slash and feed a cutter to the hole. We have the speed and agility to do this throughout the game, we just don't. Richardson was able to knock down some buckets, but that isn't a re-accuring theme. We still spend a lot of time dribbling and passing around the perimeter. If Youngstown State takes a good look at this game film, we could be in for a long game. I'll not elaborate on that for obvious reasons. As others have mentioned, we just don't have a true floor leader out there when we start these games. I believe we have players that can assume this role, but they haven't been asked to, and I don't believe the coaching staff has honed in on this aspect yet. It could make a ton of difference heading into conference play.

Quote from: SadersofthelostArc on January 06, 2013, 11:06:10 AMWhere are all the Lady Sader Haters now?!?! 

This is all in your mind.  I'm sure that no one on this board actually "Hates" the Valparaiso Women's Basketball Team or the players. 

Quote from: covufan on January 08, 2013, 01:38:23 PM

Quote from: SadersofthelostArc on January 06, 2013, 11:06:10 AMWhere are all the Lady Sader Haters now?!?! 

This is all in your mind.  I'm sure that no one on this board actually "Hates" the Valparaiso Women's Basketball Team or the players.

Not sure anyone here would spend the time with the input if they truly hated the program, or it's players. On the contrary. I've been a fan for some time now, and have always been a fan of the game, and have coached for several years on the ladies side. I think the players we have, especially from last season, are very hard working, passionate, and skilled. I'm still trying to evaluate the newbies, and the role they should be playing. I believe the team just needs more direction right now. I'm not saying it won't come with the current staff, but I have seen some missed opportunities to improving our offensive output. We do a pretty good job on defense, but we are almost always undersized for our opponent, which adds another degree of difficulty to our game. at the end of the day, we must get more offensive output to stay in games. I haven't looked at the numbers, but I don't believe we have beaten a team yet this season that has a winning season going of their own. The frustration for me, and others comes from their passion for Valpo and the team. calling us haters couldn't be further from the truth.

Quote from: jack on January 08, 2013, 07:28:33 AM
How do you expect to be taken seriously, when you say things like "piling up the wins".

based on 2/3 of what he says, i'm pretty sure sader has absolutely no desire to be taken seriously.

Quote from: vuweathernerd on January 08, 2013, 07:20:27 PM

Quote from: jack on January 08, 2013, 07:28:33 AM
How do you expect to be taken seriously, when you say things like "piling up the wins".

based on 2/3 of what he says, i'm pretty sure sader has absolutely no desire to be taken seriously.

Gosh, I'd thought everyone had gotten the memo on that ;)

Can anyone please address my second paragraph remarks?  Please and thank you.

I'm looking at you, run.

Quote from: SadersofthelostArc on January 08, 2013, 11:17:46 PM
Can anyone please address my second paragraph remarks?  Please and thank you.

I'm looking at you, run.

I'll simply say this team has no floor leader, and a good coach would look for that first, especially in trying to implement her program/system. Unfortunately, the one player who would have been that floor leader, regardless of who she had allegiances to, was kicked out of the program for another point guard who can't control the ball well enough to find the passing lanes on the fastbreak, or to get the ball to the intended target of the play called. In terms of a banger downlow, that should be Gina Lange, but she's too soft to even attempt to go in hard on a layup.

I just don't see this team doing anything close to going to the NCAA tournament. We have ZERO height, and timid shooters, to be able to contend with the Detroits and the Green Bays of the Horizon League schedule, and get into any postseason tournament play. The Women's NCAA Tournament committee doesn't look to the HL for an at-large bid, unless that team happens to be equal to or slightly better than Green Bay. Valpo isn't that team this year.

Quote from: valporun on January 09, 2013, 12:51:50 AM

Quote from: SadersofthelostArc on January 08, 2013, 11:17:46 PM
Can anyone please address my second paragraph remarks?  Please and thank you.

I'm looking at you, run.

I'll simply say this team has no floor leader, and a good coach would look for that first, especially in trying to implement her program/system. Unfortunately, the one player who would have been that floor leader, regardless of who she had allegiances to, was kicked out of the program for another point guard who can't control the ball well enough to find the passing lanes on the fastbreak, or to get the ball to the intended target of the play called. In terms of a banger downlow, that should be Gina Lange, but she's too soft to even attempt to go in hard on a layup.

I just don't see this team doing anything close to going to the NCAA tournament. We have ZERO height, and timid shooters, to be able to contend with the Detroits and the Green Bays of the Horizon League schedule, and get into any postseason tournament play. The Women's NCAA Tournament committee doesn't look to the HL for an at-large bid, unless that team happens to be equal to or slightly better than Green Bay. Valpo isn't that team this year.

I'd have to agree with this assesment at this point in the season. I'd still have to add, that these coaches have yet to work to these players strengths. As an example, I look to who starts, and who is sitting. I feel we are starting of games with 2 defensive minded guards, which is where some leadership should come from. I'm not sure why, or even if, Carr has fell out of favor with this coach, but when she's healthy, I think she probably does the best job of running the offense. She seems to see the floor better then some of the others, and gets the ball out quicker to the open players. I know after Keith recruiter her, I got to catch her in action in a couple of tournaments, and frankly, I was impressed with her leadership. She was actually changing up plays based on the defenses, in leu of what the coach was putting in. I'm not saying she's the answer to our problems, but it just seems to be a waste for her to be sitting most of the games when she has something to offer. Health may be an issue, but she seems to be moving OK when in there. I think she only got in for a couple of minutes vs NIU. I fear with her, and maybe a few others, this coach is breaking their spirit, and confidence to a point. Jansone is another. Very athletic, and has a decent shot. I recall a game early on where she racked up 22pts. Had a great game. Now, she get's in around the end of the half, makes a mistake, and gets yanked. Win or lose, I'd like to see Horton get some quality minutes in. She missed last season, and we have to get her ready to go down the stretch. In my opinion, she is probably one of our best shooters for a big. We need to elevate her confidence, and get her comfortable to play quality minutes, and she isn't going to improve sitting on the bench. I can go on about others as well, but i realize it's much easier to be an "spectator coach" then to be there in the mix. If we were 8 -4, I'd say we were locking in on a good winning formula, but we aren't. We are 4 - 8, with the 4 "W"s coming against inferior teams. I think it's time to evaluate What we are doing, and who we are trying to do it with. Saturday is going to be a huge test, agaist a quality 10 -3 team who, if they watched film on us, know what they need to do to get out of the ARC with a win. I say we change things up a little and show them something they haven't seen from us yet.   

The last couple of players named by jack (Carr, Jansone, Horton) all have one thing in common that I feel like people overlook. They cannot play solid enough defense for an extended period of time. That's where players lose or earn more playing time. Horton does a good job on the offensive end and is fully in the rotation so I have no clue what you are saying about her not getting enough minutes. She just gets taken out in critical times because I believe in that situation Coach Dorow is looking for her best defensive lineup. Jansone does have nice athletic ability but just looks lost out there most of the time. And Carr still isn't fully healthy in my opinion. She sat the WMU game so that she could play the next day at U of M, doesn't sound like a 100% healthy player to me.

Quote from: valpo4life on January 09, 2013, 01:09:55 PM
The last couple of players named by jack (Carr, Jansone, Horton) all have one thing in common that I feel like people overlook. They cannot play solid enough defense for an extended period of time. That's where players lose or earn more playing time. Horton does a good job on the offensive end and is fully in the rotation so I have no clue what you are saying about her not getting enough minutes. She just gets taken out in critical times because I believe in that situation Coach Dorow is looking for her best defensive lineup. Jansone does have nice athletic ability but just looks lost out there most of the time. And Carr still isn't fully healthy in my opinion. She sat the WMU game so that she could play the next day at U of M, doesn't sound like a 100% healthy player to me.

I don't totally agree that they can't play solid defense. Of the three, I think Jansone may be a little weak on D. I feel when Carr is picking up on point, she does a solid job of disrupting what the "O" is trying to do. She may still not be at 100% and unable to D up for long stretches, but I think her court awareness on offense is worth the trade off. Horton needs a little better foot speed, but her size helps out in the paint. She can provide some much needed O as well. I disagree that shes seeing the minutes she should be. She has seen extended minutes on a few occassions, but nothing consistent enough, in my opinion. As a team, we lack on help D, and are a bit to late on our switches. I think this is where teams are dominating us. It's easy to figure out what O an opponent should run when you watch our D. I really don't think the D side of things is where we struggle the most. We have to design plays to get our shooters opened, and we MUST finish under the basket. We spend far too much time dribbling around, and passing it around the perimeter, and not enough time slashing and cutting to the hole. Again, I think our guards are missing opportunities by holding the ball too long. We don't pass inside with authority. Just watch this aspect of our offense on Saturday. So many times we have a player opened inside for a split second, and by the time our guards realize it, it's gone. As I alluded to previously, I think Carr does as good a job as any getting the ball to an open player, but as you mention she may not be up to speed healthwise at this point. I hope that's the reason she is sitting. As for Jansone, more than any of these players, I think her confidence is the most affected by lack of playing time. When she had the one big game early, she kept getting stronger with each passing minute, and success. I think the only way to be able to count on her down the road is to give her more minutes. She's shown what she is capable of. I would also let Horton know now she is starting Saturday, and start her. I think they would be surprized at the output they get from her. And it'll be apparent early on if she's ready for the roll.   

Good luck Saturday Ladies. Let's start conference off with a W.

It may be a tough one to start with, but I see at least a middle of the pack finish for this squad

Saturday should tell the coaching staff where they stand, and what they need to work on most. It's probably best we start with YS.

What a great comeback for the women, winning 67-59 over what seemed to be a solid YSU team.  I believe that we were down by 15 at one point in the first half.  Tabitha with another monster game of 26 and 17

Ready to jump on the bandwagon yet, jack and tx?  I see valporun and KLNY13 are conspiculously absent.

Uh, I haven't said negative things about our women's team.  I said just a few posts up that I see AT LEAST a middle of the pack finish for us, which is a HUGE improvement over last year

Apparently my "absence" has attracted attention. Sorry for having other pertinent matters on my schedule.

Can't comment too much on the game since I was unable to watch it today. Based on the numbers though, obviously Tab was doing it big again today. Our inside game is pretty good when she and Gina are playing well.

And.......

(HINT: acknowledge that Coach Dorow is getting the job done and we can all move on!!!!!!)

Quote from: valpotx on January 12, 2013, 04:39:00 PM
Uh, I haven't said negative things about our women's team.  I said just a few posts up that I see AT LEAST a middle of the pack finish for us, which is a HUGE improvement over last year

Sorry about that...I didn't realize you'd already jumped on the bandwagon yesterday.  My apologies, Tom.

Quote from: SadersofthelostArc on January 12, 2013, 04:13:26 PM
Ready to jump on the bandwagon yet, jack and tx?  I see valporun and KLNY13 are conspiculously absent.

There you go again Sader. Never was off the bandwagon. I suspect I've forgotten more about this game then you'll know. You seem to be more fixated on Dorrow then the game itself. Having said that, it was a great effort, and a huge win for the ladies to start the conference. Another monster game from Geradot. Her rebounding stats were definitely enhanced by Lange's stellar job of blocking out. probably one of Lange's best outputs this season. She's doing the dirty work they don't have stats for. I think there was another key to tonight's game, that also won't show up on the stat sheets. I felt Carr's minutes (25+ probably) were key. She doesn't put up the big stats, but I feel the O flows better with her out there, and it takes some of the preasure off of Richards to slide into an offense. I hope this is a confidence boost for her. She made good decisions with the ball tonight. We will need her as the season progresses.
I felt the coaching staff made a critical decision to stay with the zone, and not drop off into the man to man. I don't think YS was ready for that. Nice springboard game into the conference.
Congrats to Geradot, for a huge game, the coaches for adjusting according, and the team as a whole. They played better team ball tonight then I've seen in a while. They also played with a lot of energy. Keep it rolling ladies.

jack, can we please have a truce?  I admit I was just fired up that people seemed to be a little too quick to judge Coach.

I agree that you and I are the biggest LSers' fans around.  Please accept my most humble apologies and let's team up to support this team against all of the haters.

(All joking aside, let's drop the "forgotten more than you'll know line..."  That's just silly.)

Probably been a fan longer then you knew where Valpo was, and spent many years coaching the game. But I digress. I've always contended we had the talent as long as it's utilized properly. I felt tonight the coaches did well to recognize who was in the flow. I don't think you can under estimate the importance of this win. We just beat a team that was slatted to do well in conference, and if we can keep things rolling, this could be a factor later on. We can't get complacent when we face Loyola though. We need to keep the hammer down and play as hard as we did tonight. Loyola will be a great opportunity to get a lot of players some minutes. Got to prepare for down the road.

So, is that a yes or no on the truce?

I've got no issues with you Sader. This team needs all the cheerleaders it can get. You just need to be prepared to accept some scrutiny if you want to label anyone who follows the game, and comments on what they see as Sader Haters. I love these ladies, and think if the coaches are opened to adjusting as needed, we could have some success this season. It's all good! ;)

Saders, I, like KL, wasn't home to watch the game, so I have no comments about the game until I have a chance to see it on archive.

I was never off the bandwagon regarding our women's team.  I have always been a big proponent of that program, attending every home game while I was in school, while having many friends on the team's of years past.  On the other hand, I was not a fan of Freeman's, but never gave up hope on our team.  Football nowadays, that is another story

Quote from: jack on January 12, 2013, 09:34:18 PM
I've got no issues with you Sader. This team needs all the cheerleaders it can get. You just need to be prepared to accept some scrutiny if you want to label anyone who follows the game, and comments on what they see as Sader Haters. I love these ladies, and think if the coaches are opened to adjusting as needed, we could have some success this season. It's all good! ;)

Thanks for the kind words, jack.  I loved these ladies and their coach and only want the best for them.  We both bring a ton of passion and knowledge to the conversation, glad we are back on the same page!!!

Quote from: valporun on January 12, 2013, 09:46:51 PM
Saders, I, like KL, wasn't home to watch the game, so I have no comments about the game until I have a chance to see it on archive.

Watched the game yet?  Can't wait to see your thoughts/criticisms!

Quote from: valpotx on January 13, 2013, 02:18:33 AM
I was never off the bandwagon regarding our women's team.  I have always been a big proponent of that program, attending every home game while I was in school, while having many friends on the team's of years past.  On the other hand, I was not a fan of Freeman's, but never gave up hope on our team.  Football nowadays, that is another story

Don't let VULB hear that!! LOL

But I hear ya.  I wish you could have known Keith personally, but I could see how he rubbed people the wrong way.  The Kirby thing didn't help, of course.

Glad we are on the same page and are back to being good friends.

Thought people might like to read about a female Crusader going to the NCAAs...of course, no one currently on the team.

betsy adams, come on down:
http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2013/jan/09/womens-basketball-transfer-betsy-adams-adjusting/ (http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2013/jan/09/womens-basketball-transfer-betsy-adams-adjusting/)

and thanks for being the ringleader in setting the NCAA record for most 3-pointers by a team:
http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2013/jan/13/womens-basketball-eagles-do-ncaa-record-about-3/ (http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2013/jan/13/womens-basketball-eagles-do-ncaa-record-about-3/)

TWENTY-FIVE POINTS PEOPLE.   IN FOURTEEN EFFING MINUTES.  IF SHE PLAYED THE WHOLE GAME THAT WOULD BE SEVENTY-ONE POINTS IN FORTY.

And if she were a McCallum SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN LEFT IN TO KEEP HITTING 'EM.

Wish you were still hitting 'em here.

EDIT:  BTW, if you think "only fourteen minutes!  well!"  just know that FGCU is pretty unlike anyone you've ever seen, and 11 average double-digit minutes.  So there.

FGCU usually leads the country in 3-pointers made, 3-pointers attempted, percentage of total shots that are 3-pointers...

They'll own all the records some day if they don't already. It's just like how Grinnell (IA) College will consistently get guys like Jack Taylor 100+ points in a game

Quote from: KL31NY on January 14, 2013, 09:13:02 AM
FGCU usually leads the country in 3-pointers made, 3-pointers attempted, percentage of total shots that are 3-pointers...

They'll own all the records some day if they don't already. It's just like how Grinnell (IA) College will consistently get guys like Jack Taylor 100+ points in a game

I'm happy for Betsy. She definitely wanted to avoid any talk about Valpo basketball that is happening now. Still miss her in this lineup, with her fearless ability to shoot.

Also, about Jack Taylor from Grinnell, he'll be away from basketball shooting for a little while, he broke his wrist this weekend, and is out the rest of the season, but no fear, he has time to comeback, he's only a sophomore.

We could have used Betsy's outside shot this year.  We don't shoot a ton of 3s, which may just be the way Dorow likes it.  Very different than the 3 pointer happy teams of yesteryear.  I believe we are around 15/game this year, whereas we probably average 20+/game each season before this one

My understanding is that Coach Dorow is a fan of the three-ball, but doesn't feel we have the shooters to consistently make shots. 

Well, we had one. 

But she's down here by me now.

For those of you that picked the "10-14 wins" options, be aware that Valpo has lost five straight attempts to claim "Win #10." All that remains is Detroit and the Tournament.

We're nearly locked into the 8/9 first round game. Should we win against Detroit (a good upset for this team), we have a slim shot at the #7 seed and a bye through that opening round. Should we lose against Detroit, we need Milwaukee to lose to UIC and Green Bay to host the Panthers in the tournament's first game next Monday (we have the tiebreaker past head-to-head).

Some happy WBB news for a change...

http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2013/mar/05/womens-basketball-fgcus-record-regular-season-to/ (http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2013/mar/05/womens-basketball-fgcus-record-regular-season-to/)

QuoteThe Eagles also have been buoyed by the addition of Betsy Adams. After three years playing at Valparaiso, the senior transferred to FGCU, and was eligible this year. With 62 3-pointers, Adams is the leading long-range shooter on a team that is second in the NCAA in 3s per game.

"Coach Smesko has expectations and standards for us," Adams said. "He doesn't lower those for any reason, even with so many new girls. He's put the bar up there. Through a lot of preseason workouts, we've risen to that."
...
FGCU struggled to a 6-5 mark early, an aberration for a team that averaged just five losses a year in Smesko's first 10 seasons.

But when the players finally clicked, there was no stopping them.

"There was one practice (around Christmas) where we all came out hyped up and ready to go, and you could just tell," Meador said. "It was glorious."

It was around the time the Eagles had one of the biggest regular-season wins in their young history. FGCU beat defending Southeastern Conference champion LSU at home on Dec. 28. It was the first of the Eagles' current streak of 19 straight victories.