Might as well get this started. They will pose an entirely different challenge and I sure wish we had Capo! They are HUGE! I mean HUGE!!
Check out their roster: http://www.huskers.com/SportSelect.dbml?spid=24&spsid=23&db_oem_id=100 (http://www.huskers.com/SportSelect.dbml?spid=24&spsid=23&db_oem_id=100)
Yup they are some corn-fed farm mules for sure! We sure coulda used Bobby for this one. I have no clue on how this game goes, but if it were me...I'd let the boys give it everything for a half...if its a lost cause let Vashil bang and learn and focus on Kent State...if its game on, though game on!
Valpo plays that zone so well I only worry about rebounding. Valpo should have no problem getting looks. They will have to limit offensive rebounds if they are going to win.
Wow, 5 guys 6-10 or taller! They can't all be good tho, right? Hopefully the outside shots for Valpo will continue to fall through the hoop.
This one should be close, even without Capo. We need to hit the boards a little better than this morning.
Valpo 67
Neb 65
Nope, not close.
Valpo by 12 (although, closest game so far this year).
Quote12. Nebraska (#216 KenPom)
Last year: 12-18 (4-14 Big Ten)
Returning Starters: 1
Key Returners: C Brandon Ubel, SG Dylan Talley
Key Departures: SG Bo Spencer, SF Toney McCray, PG Brandon Richardson
Top Newcomer(s): PG Benny Parker (Rivals 3*), SG Shavon Shields (3*), PG Deverell Biggs (3*)
Nebraska, a team that fired Doc Sadler after a disappointing 4-14 Big Ten debut, now must entirely rebuild after losing four starters and returning only two players—C Brandon Ubel and SG Dylan Talley—that averaged more than 8.3 minutes per game last year. Let's just go ahead, say they'll finish last, and never speak of them again.
http://mgoblog.com/content/hoops-preview-2012-13-big-ten-outlook (http://mgoblog.com/content/hoops-preview-2012-13-big-ten-outlook)
http://journalstar.com/sports/huskers/mens-basketball/valpo-s-three-point-threats-concern-miles/article_7fb918b5-f5a2-524b-8c9a-cb963fbe0342.html (http://journalstar.com/sports/huskers/mens-basketball/valpo-s-three-point-threats-concern-miles/article_7fb918b5-f5a2-524b-8c9a-cb963fbe0342.html)
As well they should.
Money coach quote:
Quote"We don't have a whole bunch of depth and athleticism that's just going to pressure them off their spots, where you can just overwhelm them with defensive pressure. So we're going to have to play our system but limit opportunities. Byproduct of that is, they're going to drive it harder on you, they're going to be at the rim more, so we're going to have to protect the rim, stay out of foul trouble."
Look out for Ubel, who put up 21-12 on Southern in their only game so far.
Only 8 players played more than a minute.
Of their bigs: Ubel played 33 min;
Almeida, the huge (6'11" / 314) dude only played 19 min with 2 points and 2 boards (4 fouls);
That's it.
Rivers is a big guard (6'7") but that's all the height they play.
Roster looks scary, but in real life...kind of like "The Woman In Black".
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on November 13, 2012, 07:54:51 PM
Almeida, the huge (6'11" / 314) dude only played 19 min with 2 points and 2 boards (4 fouls)
sounds like a recipe for some easy points. gotta take advantage of foul-prone players when we can.
Hmmm...Does something about the "Money quote" ring familiar?
Anyway, while Nebraska has some big bodies, they are learning a new system, and probably aren't matching the necessary chemistry for the system yet. Almeida might be the "goon", like Aryes (sp?) from Milwaukee was. If we can keep the backdoor layups going, we might have the bigs out early because they'll keep hacking at us trying for the blocks, only to commit fouls all over.
MUST BEAT BCS SCHOOL. End of story. :)
BCS-schmeeseeess.
We are #106 KenPom. They are #213. We should beat anyone we're that far ahead of, home or away, bcs or no.
In fact, there are only 2 BCS schools lower-ranked. Utah is the lowest, and the other one has Richie the Tat Edwards redshirting it up.
A loss would be an upset on the almost-identical (kenpom-pythag-measured) magnitude of Colorado State beating IU.
Or us beating Duke.
(Or, for those of you Butler fans with separation anxiety, losing to Arkansas St.)
BOOK IT.
This is KenPom based on one of our games? I wouldn't put much stake in these computer rankings for a while...
They only beat Southern by 11 at home...we should win by double digits:
Valpo 65
Nebraska 52
Kevin should be aggressive and clever enough to match up with their one good big. However, if he starts out with fouls......
I saw Vashil for first time on ESPN yesterday. His footwork not ready for a polished opponent. Maybe next year. Yes, Capo would make this a more solid pick.
Hopefully we can shoot well and create a lead in first half. ESPN kept saying we had great spacing on the floor. Hope we can score 80+ because they should be slow team.
VU 78 NU 70 Wewin with quick passing, inside out passing quick tempo and tight defense. We are on the road at a Big Ten School, they are big we need to take that away. It should a good Game to watch and a chance to improve Valpo's record against the Big Ten.
Still somewhat skeptical that we can beat a BCS team, albeit a Big 10 cellar dweller, on the road....
Nebraska 70
VU 64
Paul
This is a must have win if we are to have any at large hope. Even though it is at Lincoln and we are without two future key players (Capo and Dority), we are still the better team.
If Bryce comes up with a good game plan that is executed properly and Erik and Kevin stay out of early foul trouble then all we should need is 30 to 35% 3 point shooting. So lets call us a 5 point favorite with a 62% chance of winning and 72-67 sounds about right.
This game is completely about mental toughness and confidence. The team must EXPECT to win this game.
From what I saw v. NIU, Nebraska will only see a teenie tiny microbial drop-off in talent and pressure as Valpo runs its normal rotations. Plus they will see a range of skills 1-8 or 9 that will keep them hopping to adjust. That'll be a killer for any team that can't match our depth. Wudda been nice to have Capo though.
I have seen two early Vegas lines on the game, one had it even and the other favored Valpo by 2 points. It should be a good test, especially at the beginning stage of the season. I would feel more confident if we had Bobby and this wasn't the team's first away game. Still, I am not going to pick against them:
Valpo 74
Nebraska 69
Valpo wins by double digits. How is Buggs doing after that fall he took at the end of the game.
Twitter mentions training rooms, rehab, and most recently, 7-8 hours ago:
EJ @ImJustEB15
Let me head to the training room... Finally all packed up for this road trip
Just saw a tweet from the post trib writer saying Buggs is good to go!
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/268862537276207104
Michael Osipoff @MichaelOsipoff
#Valpo PG Erik Buggs is OK, practicing this morning, after landing on his hip against Northern Illinois yesterday morning. #Valparaiso
3:46 PM - 14 Nov 12 ·
Anyone see a way that we can watch this game on TV or streaming?
Quote from: Smj on November 14, 2012, 08:13:23 PM
Anyone see a way that we can watch this game on TV or streaming?
Its on the Big Ten Network. If you don't get it at home, head for any decent sports bar and it will be on.
Quote from: vu72 on November 14, 2012, 08:15:41 PMIf you don't get it at home, head for any decent sports bar and it will be on.
I've had mixed luck getting games on request at sports bars.
I wonder if a safer version is, "If you live in the Midwest, go to any decent sports bar, and it'll be available on request, if they feel like changing a channel for you?"
I'm pleased to confirm that our Comcast package in Valpo carries it. Channel 65. Even if I'll only manage the first ~half at home. I'm having bad luck lately with class commitments and game times.
THANKS!!! I actually have the Big Ten Network... 8)
I can't wait - Go Valpo!
NWI Times game day story:
VU men's basketball team switches gears for Nebraska
http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/valparaiso-university/vu-men-s-basketball-team-switches-gears-for-nebraska/article_31c5aa97-7911-5d1f-81bb-015c2f3629a8.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/valparaiso-university/vu-men-s-basketball-team-switches-gears-for-nebraska/article_31c5aa97-7911-5d1f-81bb-015c2f3629a8.html)
Quote from: agibson on November 14, 2012, 08:23:13 PM
Quote from: vu72 on November 14, 2012, 08:15:41 PMIf you don't get it at home, head for any decent sports bar and it will be on.
I've had mixed luck getting games on request at sports bars.
I wonder if a safer version is, "If you live in the Midwest, go to any decent sports bar, and it'll be available on request, if they feel like changing a channel for you?"
I'm pleased to confirm that our Comcast package in Valpo carries it. Channel 65. Even if I'll only manage the first ~half at home. I'm having bad luck lately with class commitments and game times.
Well, I'm currently in Houston and already confirmed a tv at Buffalo Wildwings!!
Should be an interesting game...VERY contrasting styles...
Valparaiso 83
Nebraska 64
Nebraska will be lucky to win 7 or 8 games in the B1G this year...
Quote from: cornonthe on November 15, 2012, 03:47:50 AM
Should be an interesting game...VERY contrasting styles...
Valparaiso 83
Nebraska 64
Nebraska will be lucky to win 7 or 8 games in the B1G this year...
cornonthe are you a Cornhuskers fan?
Lincoln Journal Star game day story:
Offensive improvement will come over time, Miles says
http://journalstar.com/sports/huskers/mens-basketball/offensive-improvement-will-come-over-time-miles-says/article_dfbe9626-a949-5986-89af-fc4179b38938.html (http://journalstar.com/sports/huskers/mens-basketball/offensive-improvement-will-come-over-time-miles-says/article_dfbe9626-a949-5986-89af-fc4179b38938.html)
The line right now is Valpo -5. I wonder if they'll be any movement. When was the last time we were favored over a Big Ten team?
When Valpo was in the Mid-Con most of their games had no lines. Therefore, I'm guessing there was no line on the game when Valpo clobbered Penn St. Thus, to answer your question, I'd guess never.
This has got to be considered a game that Valpo should expect to win. Valpo 68 Nebraska 59. Getting good enough play out of the bigs is the greatest concern. The intensity of Buggs and other guards should be the biggest concern for Nebraska (new players and systems can have a lot of trouble finding their offensive flow if there is good defensive perimeter pressure).
Quote from: SadersofthelostArc on November 15, 2012, 08:14:25 AM
Quote from: cornonthe on November 15, 2012, 03:47:50 AM
Should be an interesting game...VERY contrasting styles...
Valparaiso 83
Nebraska 64
Nebraska will be lucky to win 7 or 8 games in the B1G this year...
cornonthe are you a Cornhuskers fan?
Nope...my screen name is just a play of words on my last name... ;D
Nice to have you here, Mr. Grill ;)
Quote from: vu72 on November 14, 2012, 08:15:41 PM
Quote from: Smj on November 14, 2012, 08:13:23 PM
Anyone see a way that we can watch this game on TV or streaming?
Its on the Big Ten Network. If you don't get it at home, head for any decent sports bar and it will be on.
I called Buffalo Wild Wings here in Tulsa and asked if they carry the Big Ten Network, expecting to get laughed at.....However, they do! Here in football country I didn't expect a sports bar to carry the Big Ten Network since they don't play football. Luckily, I was mistaken. I will be holding the fort down for Valpo at one of the Buffalo Wild Wings in Tulsa.
And I think its going to be difficult for us.
1. Valpo first road game
2. Short week - game on Tuesday, travel on Wednesday
3. Size
As the resident pessimist I am really lookin forward to this game and a Valpo victory against a BCS opponent. I not only think they have a chance to win...I think they should win! I'll be very disappointed if they don't.
A fair number of Husker fans conversing on the ESPN game page http://espn.go.com/ncb/conversation?gameId=323200158 (http://espn.go.com/ncb/conversation?gameId=323200158)
Quote from: FWalum on November 15, 2012, 05:46:50 PM
A fair number of Husker fans conversing on the ESPN game page http://espn.go.com/ncb/conversation?gameId=323200158 (http://espn.go.com/ncb/conversation?gameId=323200158)
Also, don't forget we have a chat room here!
I cannot post links, but vipboxsports.eu will have a live stream of the game tonight. Currently the feed is showing the end of the IU game.
We're really missing Capo right now
One thing I have admired about Butler (the team, not the fans) is their ability to perform on the big stage. Even last year when they were on the decline, they beat Purdue and Stanford. We have not handled big games well and so far it's more of the same. Somehow we're going to have to get over the scared rabbit syndrome if we ever hope to elevate our program. I hope we snap out of this.
Not liking the physicality of this game. Too much indimidation underneath. Really missing Capo. Not playing mentally tough. Some bad passes to nowhere.
Amen, WH. It's beginning to look like a mental issue as much as a skill/physical one. Of course, we're tough when we make 55 percent of our 3s, not so much when we miss them.
Valpo seems to be playing a lot worse than they are... missing a lot of free throws, missing some easy shots, taking some bad shots, turning the ball over too much.
Nebraska doesn't look all that great either, but they've hit some big shots.
Valpo needs to exploit that fat guy, who is a foul waiting to happen. Hopefully Ryan can charge at him and draw some fouls. Can't really find anything positive about that half. Nobody is playing well.
Reigning HL player of the year has 3 points at half. That's far from the only problem, but it sure doesn't help.
Pretty terrible performance so far. Typical of any BCS team that we play, no matter what the skill level. I think we kiss any chance at the at-large bid goodbye with this game.
Is anyone on this team going to step up?
I am sick of the same excuses.....we get bad luck and other teams get lucky. We never show any gumption against BCS teams. Suck it up and actually make a few baskets.
Really thought we would look better coming out o f half time....
The look of desperation has set in for VU while Nebraska looks confident. Has our worst fear come true? Buggs looks injured.
It's just flat out time for Ryan to step up and be the POY
Now or never...
Defense hasn't been too bad... just nobody wants to step up on offense. Valpo needs to close the gap. Can't waste any possessions.
edit- ugh KWV misses a layup and a free throw. Just can't do that.
Paging Ryan Broekhoff........
Unbelievable that Kevin has missed all the bunnies and free throws.
OK...turn off the hype machine guys. We play like this, we can lose to anybody. Three of their guys looked like Y Leaguers.
Quote from: FWalum on November 15, 2012, 09:54:42 PMUnbelievable thaKevin has missed all the bunnies and free throws.
^^^^this^^^^^
Nebraska has a decent chance to go winless in the Big 10 this year.
Paul
How disappointing... Ugly.
Quote from: 78crusader on November 15, 2012, 10:03:09 PM
Nebraska has a decent chance to go winless in the Big 10 this year.
Paul
Well any BCS team can rest assured that they will win at least one game if it is against us.
$@&?;:)&"$-/:;($&)&"@$
Time to remove the shoelaces and belts
Well that was one of the most frustrating Valpo games I've watched in a long time. 2-15 from beyond the arc? A million missed layups right under the basket? I think losing by 2 is almost worse than getting blown out.
Completely and totally unimpressed! Sooo many flaws were exposed tonight against a bottom feeder Big 10 team that will be lucky to win a conference game.
Another BCS loss. Ugh!
And sometimes you just lay an egg...The Big Conference curse continues!!! Hopefully the team will rally behind this kick in the butt and be reminded of the chip that was on their shoulder from the end of last season. SO many woulda coulda shoulda's in a 2pt loss when you play so poorly! >:( A bunny here, a layup there, a three anywhere, a respectable free throw %...woof, but the bottom line is we didn't play well and need to play better next game. Beat Kent State and play the way you know how to play boys!
Quote from: wittynamehere on November 15, 2012, 09:37:50 PM
It's just flat out time for Ryan to step up and be the POY
Quote from: wittynamehere on November 15, 2012, 09:53:59 PM
Paging Ryan Broekhoff........
I think Ryan needs to spend some time with Bryce learning how to get his own shot when the offense comes to a grinding halt. If he doesn't get open within the flow of the offense...he's not getting a good shot. The one time he did try to go on his own, he barely drew iron. He's got enough talent, just needs to work on his one on one skills.
Quote from: FWalum on November 15, 2012, 10:07:20 PM
$@&?;:)&"$-/:;($&)&"@$
That pretty much sums it up. :-X
Quote from: milanmiracle on November 15, 2012, 10:22:00 PM
Quote from: wittynamehere on November 15, 2012, 09:37:50 PM
It's just flat out time for Ryan to step up and be the POY
Quote from: wittynamehere on November 15, 2012, 09:53:59 PM
Paging Ryan Broekhoff........
I think Ryan needs to spend some time with Bryce learning how to get his own shot when the offense comes to a grinding halt. If he doesn't get open within the flow of the offense...he's not getting a good shot. The one time he did try to go on his own, he barely drew iron. He's got enough talent, just needs to work on his one on one skills.
I thought he did it just fine on the play late when he drove and got fouled. To me it seemed to be more mental/his mindset. He can't wait for things to come to him when we're on the road and down late in the game. It's time to force the action - hell take a bad shot, you're the POY if anyone should do it it's him.
Valpo plays as poorly as they possibly can, shooting 34% and only 2-15 from the arc, throwing passes out of bounds and fumbling rebounds, weak at the free throw line, Bobby is out, Buggs gets hurt and is out in the second half, only 1 player scores in double figures (Kevin gets 20 points, but he also had a poor game with the missed layups and free throws), and yet it is a two-point game, which shows how much this was a lost opportunity! Let's hope this is the low point of the season.
Quote from: wittynamehere on November 15, 2012, 10:27:25 PM
Quote from: milanmiracle on November 15, 2012, 10:22:00 PM
Quote from: wittynamehere on November 15, 2012, 09:37:50 PM
It's just flat out time for Ryan to step up and be the POY
Quote from: wittynamehere on November 15, 2012, 09:53:59 PM
Paging Ryan Broekhoff........
I think Ryan needs to spend some time with Bryce learning how to get his own shot when the offense comes to a grinding halt. If he doesn't get open within the flow of the offense...he's not getting a good shot. The one time he did try to go on his own, he barely drew iron. He's got enough talent, just needs to work on his one on one skills.
I thought he did it just fine on the play late when he drove and got fouled. To me it seemed to be more mental/his mindset. He can't wait for things to come to him when we're on the road and down late in the game. It's time to force the action - hell take a bad shot, you're the POY if anyone should do it it's him.
You can't count on gettin bailed out by a whistle every time. That particular play was fine, but he ended up with 8 points, 4 of which came on free throws.
His ability isn't the issue, but maybe hes a little too passive.
Ryan was getting countered big time all game. He couldn't get a lot going, even trying to create was impossible. We really struggled on the stat sheet, but also a lack of depth on the bench to spell Kevin or Ryan when they needed it. We have a handful of guards, most of which either can't/don't shoot often enough, or are trying to play through a hip pointer that, as Todd and Travis said, "put him in a wheelchair" at the end of the night. Kevin missed bunnies and FTs, but our 6th man, Kenney, laid an egg. (1-5 FG, 1-2 3's, and 3TO's, 3 points). Where was our energy factor off the bench? He was struggling just as much as the starters.
Can't help the hernia, but Bobby would have been huge in this game in helping Ryan get open to have his usual double-double night.
Vashil-sure he disappeared/disappointed, but the kid just needs to keep getting game repetitions and minutes in learning what Bryce wants him to do.
This "lump on the head" is going to hurt for a bit, but gotta turn it around, and use what we learned from this game against Kent State and our next 5 opponents.
Quote from: koala on November 15, 2012, 10:42:36 PM
We lose so it's blame Ryan, can't the kid have a bad game. Yes it was a poor loss, yes we played bad, yes we shot poorly but the usual bandwagon jumpers are in full swing and ready to point the finger. I am as disappointed as anyone and it was really hard to watch especially when Nebraska weren't that good we were just worse ON THE DAY! I think having Bobby would have helped the team with him banging away under the basket. We live to fight another day and the sun will rise tomorrow morning but the same schmucks will find fault with every little thing and not be happy unless they do. :snore:
Hi Koala...I'm one of the schmucks :)
I wouldn't say most of us are "blaming Ryan", we just want him to step up when the moment calls for it. He had the same issue vs. Detroit, though from what I understand illness was a factor. We all just want Valpo to do well and we know that in order for that to happen Ryan will have to be at his best. In the two most recent big games (Detroit and Nebraska) he hasn't played well and that's disappointing to us.
It's not a personal attack and we hope you don't take it as such.
Quote from: koala on November 15, 2012, 10:42:36 PM
We lose so it's blame Ryan, can't the kid have a bad game. Yes it was a poor loss, yes we played bad, yes we shot poorly but the usual bandwagon jumpers are in full swing and ready to point the finger. I am as disappointed as anyone and it was really hard to watch especially when Nebraska weren't that good we were just worse ON THE DAY! I think having Bobby would have helped the team with him banging away under the basket. We live to fight another day and the sun will rise tomorrow morning but the same schmucks will find fault with every little thing and not be happy unless they do. :snore:
I want to be clear, I'm not blaming Ryan for the loss anymore than the rest of team. However, he's the conf POY and our best player. I get that bad games happen to everyone but I'd much rather see his bad game come with a little more aggression. To whom much is given, much is expected.
Overall, he is a stud and if he just does what he did on that one drive near the end I think he gets the calls. He is a future pro so forcin the action would usually mean good things.
No doubt Bobby woulda helped and Kevin not missing those bunnies woulda helped too. It's a team game and no one player ever loses a game in my mind.
My feedback was never meant to be personal just critical and hopefully fair.
Quote from: koala on November 15, 2012, 11:04:32 PM
Why shouldn't I take it as a personal attack you can't seem to find anything nice to say about him and expect him to be a robot game in and game out and yes my schmuck was aimed at you. You make it sound like he doesn't try well you couldn't be more wrong. He bleeds Valpo and it hurts him when they lose and he takes it personally. His quote on Facebook was "Never will I or we play as bad as we did tonight, I will not allow it and that's a promise." He was ill against Detroit but didn't tell Bryce but his game still wasn't good enough for you. I think it's now time for me to bow out since it upsets me to read such tripe by so called fans.
I had no doubt the schmuck comment was aimed at me. :) expected and in some cases deserved.
However, I do want to clarify one thing...I have
never questioned his heart, desire or love for Valpo.
I think the post above mine summed it up pretty well...it's a team game and everyone played a part in this and other losses, however he is the best player on the team and a reigning HL player of the year. Because of that fact if he isn't his usual self, it's much more noticeable.
Even in our best seasons, Valpo always has had a horrible game (a real skunk), as do most teams, especially when they consist of college kids, and we must accept it will happen, maybe more than once this year, even if it is disappointing at the time, most of all for the players. Last year the conference championship was such a game.
Tonight was one of those clunkers for this season, and I'm thankful it didn't happen during conference play. I will also be interested to see how the team shows character, bounces back, and begins to build toward when Dority starts play hopefully with a healthy Bobby and Erik. I believe the players are determined and (guided by Bryce, led by Ryan) they will be able to put this loss in perspective. We should as well. It would have been nice to beat a Big-10 team, and I know we should have, but this game has not diminished my expectations, which never realistically included possibility of an at-large bid but still do anticipate a conference championship.
A solid post by Valpopal. The team has made it safely to Omaha (flying out tomorrow) and no doubt they're even more angry than everybody on here. I expect a big effort on Sunday.
I need to chime in on this because Ryan is probably my favorite Valpo player in years... Maybe since Bryce. I enjoy watching him play - especially when you see him enjoying himself.
This was 100% a team loss - an ugly game that was definitely not what any of us were expecting to see. While I am disappointed in the lost opportunity I, of course, know that the team is way more disappointed than me. I am sad for the loss but not for me - I feel bad because I know that the kids i have been watching play are unhappy with their performance on this big stage. I don't think you can "blame" any player - losses happen and basketball is a team sport...
A loss like this can be a huge motivator...
I was able to watch this game at my parent's house, as they have a DirecTV package with the Big 10 network included on it. Boy, had I wished that I did not see that game. It was very frustrating to watch, and it is true that Nebraska will be lucky to win a Big 10 game this year. They are a really bad team guys, and we laid an egg. I don't know if it was the short travel time from the last game, or playing in a more open arena than the ARC, but we looked like a SWAC team at times. Hopefully that is an early lesson for us as we tackle Kent State next. If we put up a game like that against them, we will lose by 20.
A few observations:
1) KVW needs to take the ball to the hoop like the 6'8" banger he is. He settles for the lay-ups where he is sort of fading away, which allows defenders to juke him out. The 3 missed lay-ups by him are unacceptable at this level, and if he just goes into the contact rather than shying away, he would have at least gotten a foul out of those 3.
2) Why did our guys stop charging the lane when their 3rd guy got his 3rd foul with 13:30 left? They kept rotating out the guys with the fouls, and we would have kept at it, they were more than willing to oblige us with a slap on the wrist each time. We started doing this again with 5' left and it got us back in the game.
3) We missed a lot of open 3s. I know that the announcers made it seem like all shots were contested, but a lot of the 3s we missed were the same type we absolutely drained in the first 2 games. Yes, they were quicker on defense, but it almost seemed like we rushed each shot as we expected them to come out of nowhere to block it. I think even the unflappable Rowdy didn't follow-through on a few of his for this reason. Granted, the defenders on him did a really good job of not giving him space all game.
4) This was the second game in a row that Jordan wasn't looking as a pass was thrown his way. Is he just focusing too much on where he has to go next, that he isn't even paying attention to the ballhandler?
5) Was that the first mid-range jump shot of KVW's Valpo career? He made it, but boy, was that an ugly rainbow lol. It reminded me of when Moussa started taking those mid-range shots out of nowhere his SR year.
6) Vashil's long arms appear to be causing him problems when someone passes from within 10 feet. Hopefully he develops more into his body as he gets experience, as he needs to be able to receive close passes when he is right under the hoop.
As frustrated and mad as I was that we lost to such a bad BCS team, I think this will wake up our guys. We had several duds on the road last year (IUPUI, IPFW), so hopefully they realize that we can't relax against even the worst of teams. Dang, wish we would have ended our 0-32 streak on the road against the 'big 6' conferences, but here we are at 0-33.
Go Valpo, let's get them Sunday!
Not sure if 0-33 was an exaggeration, but I believe we're 0-10 against the BCS since winning at Washington.
Quote from: valpopal on November 15, 2012, 11:45:48 PM
Even in our best seasons, Valpo always has had a horrible game (a real skunk), as do most teams, especially when they consist of college kids, and we must accept it will happen, maybe more than once this year, even if it is disappointing at the time, most of all for the players. Last year the conference championship was such a game.
Tonight was one of those clunkers for this season, and I'm thankful it didn't happen during conference play. I will also be interested to see how the team shows character, bounces back, and begins to build toward when Dority starts play hopefully with a healthy Bobby and Erik. I believe the players are determined and (guided by Bryce, led by Ryan) they will be able to put this loss in perspective. We should as well. It would have been nice to beat a Big-10 team, and I know we should have, but this game has not diminished my expectations, which never realistically included possibility of an at-large bid but still do anticipate a conference championship.
I think I'm going to glom onto this post. Always good to have a voice of reason to get past a disappointing moment.
As an impartial observer, here are some of my thoughts:
1) Tough loss against a team you clearly could have beat. Added to our loss to St. Johns, and I'm having a bad week.
2) Quit Blaming RB- any HL POY needs to have a supporting cast.
3) The lack of your your guard play is where I see your problems. Most of your sets revolve around getting the ball to RB or KWV.
4) The losses of Harris and Edwards cannot be minimized- but it is what it is.
Good Luck Sunday!
Milanmiracle you didn't say anything wrong or disrespectful. In fact, no one did. Ryan isn't above criticism.
kevin looked to me like he was hesitant in his motions and actions, and not banging around nearly as much as last year, not to mention the number of missed buckets that should've gone in. is his back feeling okay?
koala, ryan is more than entitled to the occasional bad game. i think some of the feelings on here are just assuming that he was incapable of having such a game after so many great performances. i hope you're not considering completely leave the board - we all enjoy having you here! there's just some general frustration at the performance as a whole last night.
Lots had to go wrong for Valpo to lose this game, or any game this year. Our best player had a bad game, both of our point guards either didn't play at all or didn't play much due to eligibility/injury, Capo still out with injury, and nobody could hit an easy short shot/3pointer/free thow. If one of those things goes our way it is a different outcome. That is why I'm not to hung up on this game. Hopefully, all of these factors won't go wrong at the same time again this year! Get healthy and get a win on Sunday.
This game and the Detroit - St John game will be what makes the HL a one team NCAA league.
Let's not minimize what happened last night. Nebraska is a very poor team, but they executed fairly well. The big man (Almeida?) while out of shape has footwork that Vashil could only dream of. Nebraska got a ton of in the paint points and we settled for missing 3 point shots. KVW has to finish those point blank looks and also hit a free throw.
Look, I am not going to attack RB and KVW...these are quality young men and outstanding athletes. They will do quite well in life...and basketball.
This team was not prepared to play on the road. This was not a tough environment. The folks of Nebraska seemed pretty decent and supportive of their team. Chalk this up as a bad road loss and perhaps that the VU is not quite as good as originally thought of on this forum. Personally, I might have been sipping the Crusader-Aid just a bit too much.
It is early in a long season. Plenty of time to re-coop. Just remember...this is a one team NCAA bid team now.
lowposter
Quote from: motowntitan on November 16, 2012, 06:04:55 AM
As an impartial observer, here are some of my thoughts:
1) Tough loss against a team you clearly could have beat. Added to our loss to St. Johns, and I'm having a bad week.
2) Quit Blaming RB- any HL POY needs to have a supporting cast.
3) The lack of your your guard play is where I see your problems. Most of your sets revolve around getting the ball to RB or KWV.
4) The losses of Harris and Edwards cannot be minimized- but it is what it is.
Good Luck Sunday!
2. True.
The "supporting cast" was completely shut down, as evidenced by the combined offensive stats for everyone other than Ryan and Kevin - 8-24 FG, 2-10 3pt FG, 0 FT attempts for Matt, Vashil, Alex, Jordan or Will, and 20 total points in 146 minutes (almost hard to believe).
As much talent and experience as this team has, they should not have to count on 1 or 2 guys to carry the team, especially when they're the primary focus of opposing team defensives. But that is clearly what happened last night. Ryan and Kevin had off games and not one other player picked them up.
3. True.
Our only PG Erik can penetrate and dish. When Erik's on the bench, we become a much-easier-to-defend perimeter passing team. We will continue to struggle at the 1 until Dority becomes eligible, after which I expect our guard play to look as different as night is from day. It could be worse. Butler has no point guards on their entire roster and will have to work around that problem the entire season. That has to be a coaching nightmare.
4. True - right now.
We certainly could have used them last night. That said, once Capo comes back and Dority becomes eligible, memories of those 2 guys should quickly fade.
Quote from: chef on November 16, 2012, 12:30:27 AM
Not sure if 0-33 was an exaggeration, but I believe we're 0-10 against the BCS since winning at Washington.
That was a stat from the Big 10 Network announcers
I think they were talking about the B1G's record against other football conferences this year then...
chef and valpotx, that 0-33 against BCS teams could be about regular season games, not overall (postseason included)? I kinda missed that comment, as I usually tune out the announcers during November-December on any National tv games because they are one-sided to the conference affiliates, or don't really care too much about the game their calling after about 10 minutes.
Quote from: lowposter on November 16, 2012, 07:43:52 AM
This game and the Detroit - St John game will be what makes the HL a one team NCAA league.
Let's not minimize what happened last night. Nebraska is a very poor team, but they executed fairly well. The big man (Almeida?) while out of shape has footwork that Vashil could only dream of. Nebraska got a ton of in the paint points and we settled for missing 3 point shots. KVW has to finish those point blank looks and also hit a free throw.
Look, I am not going to attack RB and KVW...these are quality young men and outstanding athletes. They will do quite well in life...and basketball.
This team was not prepared to play on the road. This was not a tough environment. The folks of Nebraska seemed pretty decent and supportive of their team. Chalk this up as a bad road loss and perhaps that the VU is not quite as good as originally thought of on this forum. Personally, I might have been sipping the Crusader-Aid just a bit too much.
It is early in a long season. Plenty of time to re-coop. Just remember...this is a one team NCAA bid team now.
lowposter
+5
Some very good points here that I agree with. No one player is to blame. Can't sugar coat what happened last night though--it was a disaster, plain and simple, IMO. Very disappointing to say the least. To say that VU played terribly and still only lost by two is purely smoke and mirrors in that it speaks more about Nebraska weaknesses than it does about our strengths. I'm still excited about this team, but if we ever had a chance at an at large this season, it died in Lincoln.
WHAT A DISAPPOINTMENT!!! Bogan is a dismal failure as p.g. but I guess we perhaps don't have any other alternative right now. We need Dority badly. Everybody has a poor game now and then and it seemed that everyone did last night. Let's put it behind us and beat Kent State.
A bruising loss, for sure. In more ways than one. I watched the first half, and got a couple of score updates through the second half as I was in a problem-solving session with students. We turned on the streaming audio for the last 30 seconds or so of game time. As I told my students, some of the bloom's off the rose, some of the shine off the apple. A little reality sets in.
But, to try to find a bit of a positive note:
Quote from: koala on November 15, 2012, 11:04:32 PMcan't seem to find anything nice to say about him
Early in the first half I made note of the broadcasters' comments on Ryan. They said he had one of the nicest releases they'd seen in-person in a long time. Called it a Dirk Nowitzki-like release (having the international comparison in mind I suppose). Complimented him on his nice _high_ release point!
I found their 0-32 or 0-33 BCS statistic a bit baffling - showing a stereotypical BCS broadcasters' ignorance of other schools.
But, the high release point comment was _hilarious_! Almost like they'd been reading our message board four years ago.
I have said the Dirk release thing since I first saw Ryan, so I can definitely see it having watched Dirk take thousands of shots in his time with the Mavs.
The BCS statistic may be correct if they are talking about regular season road games. I can't think of a BCS team we have beaten at their place. The only ones I can think about were included in holiday tournaments, so maybe they weren't counting those.
Disappointing game in all facets. Bogan is not a point guard. We need to find someone else to run the point for a few games. Ryan and Kevin are entitled to a bad game, but the mark of a successful, top team is the ability of other players to compensate for an off-night from the star(s). Although experienced, Valpo is not (yet) a top team. It's an above-average mid-major team.
Nebraska obviously did its homework before playing Valpo. The comments of Brandon Ubel (quoted on huskeronline.com) speak volumes: "Watching the tape, they ran a lot of good plays, but most of their stuff came off of transition and kind of off confusion-type plays where they're just getting wide-open looks at the basket. Good players are going to knock that down, so we were able to take that away from them tonight." Valpo either could not or did not adjust its game plan -- which is a coaching deficiency.
I've followed SLU closely this year. Like Valpo yesterday, SLU had a horrible game against Santa Clara a couple of nights ago. However, assuming that SLU has an average game against Valpo, we will be in trouble unless we bring our "A-game." If we play like we did against Nebraska, we will lose by 30+. The SLU game will be a true testament of how we match up against a big-time opponent, as that will be the most-talented team that we face until the tournament. Majerus just notified the team that he will not return this year, so Jim Crews (of Indiana fame) will guide this team for the foreseeable future.
Nebraska was a really awkward looking team. The first 3 subs and the bench looked like a high school group. Scary for them in the Big 10.
Anyway, I think we really need a bigger pivot guy (Capo?) to make that whole 3-pointer offensive pattern work well. When we rely on dribble penetration, I'm not sure all of those passes will survive against quicker opponents or who are well coached to cover their space. That includes our pre-conf. road sked and Detroit.
Two big bodies probably kept Kevin from doing that and wore him down. Really was ugly game to watch....maybe worst I've ever seen in D-1.
We need a win badly at KSU. Do they have a dominant big or two?
Kent ha a forward named Chris Evans who is averaging 19 and 8.
I know that I was very frustrated last night. I also said "Unbelievable that Kevin has missed all the bunnies and free throws." Now it is time to properly reflect on last night.
1. We looked tentative and nervous hence the passes to nowhere on several occasions. There were times when "I" thought a player had turned the corner on a defender but instead of being aggressive or taking the short jumper, like the last few games, we passed the ball back out to players that weren't ready for the pass or eager to get rid of it as quickly as possible.
2. I think that not having Capo (or Edwards) is very tough on Kevin. I really don't know how Kevin could be in game shape after the surgery, yet he played with a lot of heart. I thought he looked tired and perhaps is not as quick off the floor as early last year. Edwards was a much bigger offensive threat than Vashil and without Edwards or Capo the front line scoring falls solely on Kevin.
3. Buggs' injury really hurts us and will be a concern for a while. On the other hand, can anyone remember a time last year when Buggs had to sit and we were able to remain competitive? Coming back and playing decent D the last 7 minutes without Erik has to be a positive.
4. No one player is responsible for the loss. everything just looked a bit out of sync. Play in point, at the end of the game we have the ball out of bounds on our end line, Ryan comes off a low screen and pops out high beyond the 3 point line wide open, we eventually throw him the ball but it is a second and a half late and he had to rotate the ball instead of a wide open shot. Too many passes seemed a tad late, a tad high, behind the player or to someone who wasn't expecting the pass.
5. No at-large bid unless we beat every other bubble type mid-major on the schedule.
6. Still think this is a special team, just need to work through these early injuries and get Dority and Capo on the floor.
7. Ryan 10 rebounds... still POY in my book.
Based on watching them on TV, Kent State's size will not be a problem for us, but they are a very solid team, athletic and hard-working on defense. They appear to be better than Nebraska. We'll have a difficult time with them, especially if Buggs is out; of course we can make that statement for every game during the next month.
Quote from: atkins on November 16, 2012, 04:01:45 PM
Disappointing game in all facets. Bogan is not a point guard. We need to find someone else to run the point for a few games. Ryan and Kevin are entitled to a bad game, but the mark of a successful, top team is the ability of other players to compensate for an off-night from the star(s). Although experienced, Valpo is not (yet) a top team. It's an above-average mid-major team.
Nebraska obviously did its homework before playing Valpo. The comments of Brandon Ubel (quoted on huskeronline.com) speak volumes: "Watching the tape, they ran a lot of good plays, but most of their stuff came off of transition and kind of off confusion-type plays where they're just getting wide-open looks at the basket. Good players are going to knock that down, so we were able to take that away from them tonight." Valpo either could not or did not adjust its game plan -- which is a coaching deficiency.
I've followed SLU closely this year. Like Valpo yesterday, SLU had a horrible game against Santa Clara a couple of nights ago. However, assuming that SLU has an average game against Valpo, we will be in trouble unless we bring our "A-game." If we play like we did against Nebraska, we will lose by 30+. The SLU game will be a true testament of how we match up against a big-time opponent, as that will be the most-talented team that we face until the tournament. Majerus just notified the team that he will not return this year, so Jim Crews (of Indiana fame) will guide this team for the foreseeable future.
I don't think anybody on our schedule could beat us by anywhere near 30 points. Ryan was a teammate of one of SLU's best players, also an Australian. I suspect both players will have some insight for their respective coaches.
Quote from: FWalum on November 16, 2012, 05:33:54 PM
I know that I was very frustrated last night. I also said "Unbelievable that Kevin has missed all the bunnies and free throws." Now it is time to properly reflect on last night.
1. We looked tentative and nervous hence the passes to nowhere on several occasions. There were times when "I" thought a player had turned the corner on a defender but instead of being aggressive or taking the short jumper, like the last few games, we passed the ball back out to players that weren't ready for the pass or eager to get rid of it as quickly as possible.
2. I think that not having Capo (or Edwards) is very tough on Kevin. I really don't know how Kevin could be in game shape after the surgery, yet he played with a lot of heart. I thought he looked tired and perhaps is not as quick off the floor as early last year. Edwards was a much bigger offensive threat than Vashil and without Edwards or Capo the front line scoring falls solely on Kevin.
3. Buggs' injury really hurts us and will be a concern for a while. On the other hand, can anyone remember a time last year when Buggs had to sit and we were able to remain competitive? Coming back and playing decent D the last 7 minutes without Erik has to be a positive.
4. No one player is responsible for the loss. everything just looked a bit out of sync. Play in point, at the end of the game we have the ball out of bounds on our end line, Ryan comes off a low screen and pops out high beyond the 3 point line wide open, we eventually throw him the ball but it is a second and a half late and he had to rotate the ball instead of a wide open shot. Too many passes seemed a tad late, a tad high, behind the player or to someone who wasn't expecting the pass.
5. No at-large bid unless we beat every other bubble type mid-major on the schedule.
6. Still think this is a special team, just need to work through these early injuries and get Dority and Capo on the floor.
7. Ryan 10 rebounds... still POY in my book.
Very good assessment. Valpo clearly didn't play a very good game, but I don't expect many more like that from them.
With that said, it's still only one loss ... the rush to write off any possibility of an at-large seems a bit premature, but the margin for error certainly shrunk a little. I've said all along that this team isn't out of the at-large picture until they've lost 5 or 6 games.
Having high expectations for the team and for individuals on the team can be a double-edged sword, because it also creates a level of disappointment when the team and/or individuals don't perform up to expectations. It may not be perceived as "fair", but it comes with the territory when you want to compete at the highest level. I'm sure the team will learn from this game and improve going forward.
does anybody have a status report on Buggs? I suppose we will find out Sunday afternoon.
My thoughts on the game: We had trouble converting close in shots, but we're able to drive to the basket, which gets us to the FT line. Some made FTs at the end brought us up to a reasonable 66.7%. Some shots were not great shot selection, but we need to hit those shots without a hand in our face. Except for transfers, most VU basketball players were never offered a scholarship to a Nebraska caliber program. Sure, there are exceptions, but overall VU needs to develop talent, and rely on above average coaching. This is a team game - we win and lose as a team. When a player is having an off night, the rest of the team needs to pick up their game. The team hung in there and came back from a 14 point deficit in a low scoring game to make it interesting. They need to never forget that if they played an average game, shooting from floor-wise, they can stay with just about everyone on the schedule. Ryan was tough on the boards, as usual. KVW had a good night, looking for his shot when in good position, and getting to the FT line. Our second half defense (after the 14 point deficit) was great - needs to be that way all of the time. How did Boggs get four fouls in 10 minutes, leaving the game with just under 7 minutes left? We need to be mindful of our foul situation - a player can't help after fouling out. Two scoring stretches for Nebraska 17-6 in the last 11 minutes of the first half, and a 10-0 run in about 2 minutes in the second half, really took the air out. The first two of three timeouts in about a minute didn't seem to help. This team will grow from last night. In the past, when we had a poor shooting night in tough games like these, we also had too many senseless turnovers. I don't think that will be the case this year. We had some last night, but overall we did well on ball control. This will especially help us during league play.
I'm looking forward to watching this team grow during the season, especially with Capo coming on board in 3-4 weeks.
Still, somewhat frustrating to think that if just one of those close in shots, or one of those three's had hit...
Quote from: EddieCabot on November 16, 2012, 06:30:01 PMWith that said, it's still only one loss ... the rush to write off any possibility of an at-large seems a bit premature, but the margin for error certainly shrunk a little. I've said all along that this team isn't out of the at-large picture until they've lost 5 or 6 games.
THIS
But even then (5-6), we're still in it. More than 6, yeah, we're out, but at 29-6, no D-I team with that gaudy a record has ever not made the NCAA in the modern era.
To get to 35 games and an at-large bid is win our way to the championship and then lose. But either way, no team has ever won 29+ games and NOT made the Dance! [source: myself. http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=995.msg18627#msg18627 (http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=995.msg18627#msg18627) ]
30-5, 29-6...good enough. but in the words of Jason Bateman after Buster goes on his swearing-at-mother spree, "let's hope it doesn't come to that."
(Now is that a guarantee? Not exactly. I'd hate to be the first one to have a record that gaudy and fail. But if we win 29 games we can be no worse than 29 and 5 or 6. Or if things go amazingly well but wrong in just the right places, 29-3 with a 1st round loss. But that would be very hard to do--one conference loss and the 3 seed?!?)
(CAVEAT: all of that history and math assumes that we NEVER play as poorly as last night, too. but that goeth without saying. or should.)
After thinking it over and discussing the game with a knowledgable observer of the game who is not emotionally attached to this team, we both came to the same conclusion...Capo's injury is huge. It leaves us with no serviceable backup banger. This team relies on excellent ball movement and finding the open man. That can be defended. Nebraska's player admitted they prepared for that. We really do not have anyone who can create their own shot effectively and consistently.
Gotta hang in there til Capo returns, hope that Buggs is not injured long term, use the non conference games for fine tuning and preparation for the conference, and then take care of bidness.
lowposter
Sounds right to me. I don't know hoops that well. You just get used to watching the NBA or Kentuckys of the world. They always have guards or wings who can fake a couple of times and get off a shot without catching a good pass first.
Butler had two of them. Valpo hasn't had that many over recent 8-10 years.
Quote from: FWalum on November 16, 2012, 05:33:54 PM
I know that I was very frustrated last night. I also said "Unbelievable that Kevin has missed all the bunnies and free throws." Now it is time to properly reflect on last night.
1. We looked tentative and nervous hence the passes to nowhere on several occasions. There were times when "I" thought a player had turned the corner on a defender but instead of being aggressive or taking the short jumper, like the last few games, we passed the ball back out to players that weren't ready for the pass or eager to get rid of it as quickly as possible.
2. I think that not having Capo (or Edwards) is very tough on Kevin. I really don't know how Kevin could be in game shape after the surgery, yet he played with a lot of heart. I thought he looked tired and perhaps is not as quick off the floor as early last year. Edwards was a much bigger offensive threat than Vashil and without Edwards or Capo the front line scoring falls solely on Kevin.
3. Buggs' injury really hurts us and will be a concern for a while. On the other hand, can anyone remember a time last year when Buggs had to sit and we were able to remain competitive? Coming back and playing decent D the last 7 minutes without Erik has to be a positive.
4. No one player is responsible for the loss. everything just looked a bit out of sync. Play in point, at the end of the game we have the ball out of bounds on our end line, Ryan comes off a low screen and pops out high beyond the 3 point line wide open, we eventually throw him the ball but it is a second and a half late and he had to rotate the ball instead of a wide open shot. Too many passes seemed a tad late, a tad high, behind the player or to someone who wasn't expecting the pass.
5. No at-large bid unless we beat every other bubble type mid-major on the schedule.
6. Still think this is a special team, just need to work through these early injuries and get Dority and Capo on the floor.
7. Ryan 10 rebounds... still POY in my book.
1. I completely agree. I think that was a combination of things that will correct themselves with time. I think they got enamored with the penetrate and kick offense against lesser opponents who couldn't recover as well. I also think playing Big Ten quality players (barely), had an effect and mad them think a little too much. This too shall pass.
Vu72, I wish you were correct. However, the fact that Ryan played with a fellow SLU Australian is of minor value. I've watched all of SLU's games. If we play the way we did against Nebraska -- which is not in the same class as SLU -- we will lose by 30+. That team's main weakness is coaching instability and the fact that it recently lost its best player, Kwamain Mitchell, to injury...which of course cannot be underestimated. SLU is quick and athletic and still better than VU even with the October loss of Mitchell (Can you imagine how bad we'd be if we lost Ryan?). We are slow and relatively unathletic.
That said, I can't imagine VU having another game as horrible as the Nebraska game. We lost to the worst BCS team I've seen in a long time -- far worse than the bad Northwestern teams of the 80s/90'.
Let's hope it is up from here. If not, we're a 15 seed if we win the HL.
The Nebraska newspaper Lincoln Journal-Star speculates Valpo's shooting problems might partially have been related to the schedule that had travel after a 7 a.m. game. I would like to believe the reason was that simple. We'll see how the team shoots on Sunday:
"Nebraska defeated a team you'll probably see in the NCAA Tournament. Valpo returned five starters from a 22-win team and is picked to win the Horizon League. In other words, Nebraska beat a veteran team it really wasn't supposed to. Shots weren't falling for the Crusaders, who were 13-of-24 on three-pointers in each of their first two games. They were 2-of-15 against Nebraska. That could be the effects of traveling two days after playing a 7 a.m. game, but give Miles' bunch credit for picking up Valpo on the perimeter, especially in transition, and limiting wide-open looks."
http://journalstar.com/sports/huskers/mens-basketball/hoops-gutty-win-walk-ons-and-a-fan-rant/article_553cd198-3004-11e2-8344-0019bb2963f4.html (http://journalstar.com/sports/huskers/mens-basketball/hoops-gutty-win-walk-ons-and-a-fan-rant/article_553cd198-3004-11e2-8344-0019bb2963f4.html)
Quote from: atkins on November 17, 2012, 10:33:15 AM
Vu72, I wish you were correct. However, the fact that Ryan played with a fellow SLU Australian is of minor value. I've watched all of SLU's games. If we play the way we did against Nebraska -- which is not in the same class as SLU -- we will lose by 30+. That team's main weakness is coaching instability and the fact that it recently lost its best player, Kwamain Mitchell, to injury...which of course cannot be underestimated. SLU is quick and athletic and still better than VU even with the October loss of Mitchell (Can you imagine how bad we'd be if we lost Ryan?). We are slow and relatively unathletic.
That said, I can't imagine VU having another game as horrible as the Nebraska game. We lost to the worst BCS team I've seen in a long time -- far worse than the bad Northwestern teams of the 80s/90'.
Let's hope it is up from here. If not, we're a 15 seed if we win the HL.
SLU struggled for 35 minutes at home against University of South Carolina Upstate.
Quote from: StlVUFan on November 17, 2012, 04:27:46 PM
Quote from: atkins on November 17, 2012, 10:33:15 AM
Vu72, I wish you were correct. However, the fact that Ryan played with a fellow SLU Australian is of minor value. I've watched all of SLU's games. If we play the way we did against Nebraska -- which is not in the same class as SLU -- we will lose by 30+. That team's main weakness is coaching instability and the fact that it recently lost its best player, Kwamain Mitchell, to injury...which of course cannot be underestimated. SLU is quick and athletic and still better than VU even with the October loss of Mitchell (Can you imagine how bad we'd be if we lost Ryan?). We are slow and relatively unathletic.
That said, I can't imagine VU having another game as horrible as the Nebraska game. We lost to the worst BCS team I've seen in a long time -- far worse than the bad Northwestern teams of the 80s/90'.
Let's hope it is up from here. If not, we're a 15 seed if we win the HL.
SLU struggled for 35 minutes at home against University of South Carolina Upstate.
...and lost by 12 at home to Santa Clara, a team they were favored over by 13 points. I would imagine their fans couldn't have been any less unhappy about losing to a team at home that best the spread by 25 than we were about losing to a bad Nebraska team on the road.
Quote from: wh on November 17, 2012, 09:38:38 PM
Quote from: StlVUFan on November 17, 2012, 04:27:46 PM
Quote from: atkins on November 17, 2012, 10:33:15 AM
Vu72, I wish you were correct. However, the fact that Ryan played with a fellow SLU Australian is of minor value. I've watched all of SLU's games. If we play the way we did against Nebraska -- which is not in the same class as SLU -- we will lose by 30+. That team's main weakness is coaching instability and the fact that it recently lost its best player, Kwamain Mitchell, to injury...which of course cannot be underestimated. SLU is quick and athletic and still better than VU even with the October loss of Mitchell (Can you imagine how bad we'd be if we lost Ryan?). We are slow and relatively unathletic.
That said, I can't imagine VU having another game as horrible as the Nebraska game. We lost to the worst BCS team I've seen in a long time -- far worse than the bad Northwestern teams of the 80s/90'.
Let's hope it is up from here. If not, we're a 15 seed if we win the HL.
SLU struggled for 35 minutes at home against University of South Carolina Upstate.
...and lost by 12 at home to Santa Clara, a team they were favored over by 13 points. I would imagine their fans couldn't have been any less unhappy about losing to a team at home that best the spread by 25 than we were about losing to a bad Nebraska team on the road.
Fans who were using the restroom I was using at half time of the USC-Upstate game were pissed, I can tell you that. "Too slow" was a phrase I heard, in spite of the fact that I thought they could drive to the hoop at will in the first half. I'm guessing they were happier with the whole 2nd half, but I didn't mill around after the game was over.
Quote from: StlVUFan on November 17, 2012, 09:42:41 PM
Quote from: wh on November 17, 2012, 09:38:38 PM
Quote from: StlVUFan on November 17, 2012, 04:27:46 PM
Quote from: atkins on November 17, 2012, 10:33:15 AM
Vu72, I wish you were correct. However, the fact that Ryan played with a fellow SLU Australian is of minor value. I've watched all of SLU's games. If we play the way we did against Nebraska -- which is not in the same class as SLU -- we will lose by 30+. That team's main weakness is coaching instability and the fact that it recently lost its best player, Kwamain Mitchell, to injury...which of course cannot be underestimated. SLU is quick and athletic and still better than VU even with the October loss of Mitchell (Can you imagine how bad we'd be if we lost Ryan?). We are slow and relatively unathletic.
That said, I can't imagine VU having another game as horrible as the Nebraska game. We lost to the worst BCS team I've seen in a long time -- far worse than the bad Northwestern teams of the 80s/90'.
Let's hope it is up from here. If not, we're a 15 seed if we win the HL.
SLU struggled for 35 minutes at home against University of South Carolina Upstate.
...and lost by 12 at home to Santa Clara, a team they were favored over by 13 points. I would imagine their fans couldn't have been any less unhappy about losing to a team at home that best the spread by 25 than we were about losing to a bad Nebraska team on the road.
Fans who were using the restroom I was using at half time of the USC-Upstate game were pissed, I can tell you that. "Too slow" was a phrase I heard, in spite of the fact that I thought they could drive to the hoop at will in the first half. I'm guessing they were happier with the whole 2nd half, but I didn't mill around after the game was over.
No pun intended? ;)
"slow and relatively unathletic" Doubt this new guy know much about basketball, or has seen guys like Erik or Jordan play, and probably is a SLU fan trying to stir up trouble. We see how it turns out.
Vu72, you're correct about Buggs and Coleman, and Vashil is, of course, a stellar athlete. The others, though, are nothing special as athletes (although Ryan and Kevin are certainly very special basketball players).
I'm not a big SLU fan but like to watch college basketball and have been doing so for decades, including as many live games as possible (not just a tv BB junkie). SLU has indeed underachieved, but the injury loss of their top player and coach would do that to just about any team.
And I'm not interested in stirring up anything on this Board on behalf of SLU fans. If I were doing that, I'd be on the A-10 Boards trolling around Butler's postings, not Valpo's. By the way, Vu72, this Board can use some new posters....There are so few posters here and a dearth of Valpo posters elsewhere.
Good luck to Valpo today, and let's hope the guys rebound (literally and figuratively) form the painful loss.
Quote from: atkins on November 18, 2012, 11:21:13 AM
Vu72, you're correct about Buggs and Coleman, and Vashil is, of course, a stellar athlete. The others, though, are nothing special as athletes (although Ryan and Kevin are certainly very special basketball players).
I'm not a big SLU fan but like to watch college basketball and have been doing so for decades, including as many live games as possible (not just a tv BB junkie). SLU has indeed underachieved, but the injury loss of their top player and coach would do that to just about any team.
And I'm not interested in stirring up anything on this Board on behalf of SLU fans. If I were doing that, I'd be on the A-10 Boards trolling around Butler's postings, not Valpo's. By the way, Vu72, this Board can use some new posters....There are so few posters here and a dearth of Valpo posters elsewhere.
Good luck to Valpo today, and let's hope the guys rebound (literally and figuratively) form the painful loss.
Atkins, I understand where you are coming from, but I would like to suggest that many observers have fallen into the "athlete" trap when talking about athleticism and basketball. The obvious things are speed and jumping ability, the less obvious things are skills like spatial awareness and hand eye coordination which a player like Ryan has in spades. It is rare to find players that have athleticism in all areas. Learning or being coached properly to use your particular athletic skills is the key. Are baseball players less athletic than basketball or football players? Is someone who can jump through the roof but struggles to hit a 10' jumper more of an athlete than the vertically challenged sharpshooter? I guess it depends on your perspective.
Quote from: wh on November 17, 2012, 10:04:41 PM
Quote from: StlVUFan on November 17, 2012, 09:42:41 PM
Quote from: wh on November 17, 2012, 09:38:38 PM
Quote from: StlVUFan on November 17, 2012, 04:27:46 PM
Quote from: atkins on November 17, 2012, 10:33:15 AM
Vu72, I wish you were correct. However, the fact that Ryan played with a fellow SLU Australian is of minor value. I've watched all of SLU's games. If we play the way we did against Nebraska -- which is not in the same class as SLU -- we will lose by 30+. That team's main weakness is coaching instability and the fact that it recently lost its best player, Kwamain Mitchell, to injury...which of course cannot be underestimated. SLU is quick and athletic and still better than VU even with the October loss of Mitchell (Can you imagine how bad we'd be if we lost Ryan?). We are slow and relatively unathletic.
That said, I can't imagine VU having another game as horrible as the Nebraska game. We lost to the worst BCS team I've seen in a long time -- far worse than the bad Northwestern teams of the 80s/90'.
Let's hope it is up from here. If not, we're a 15 seed if we win the HL.
SLU struggled for 35 minutes at home against University of South Carolina Upstate.
...and lost by 12 at home to Santa Clara, a team they were favored over by 13 points. I would imagine their fans couldn't have been any less unhappy about losing to a team at home that best the spread by 25 than we were about losing to a bad Nebraska team on the road.
Fans who were using the restroom I was using at half time of the USC-Upstate game were pissed, I can tell you that. "Too slow" was a phrase I heard, in spite of the fact that I thought they could drive to the hoop at will in the first half. I'm guessing they were happier with the whole 2nd half, but I didn't mill around after the game was over.
No pun intended? ;)
Correct.
Kent State beat Nebraska by 14 last night.
So does that make our loss to Nebraska look worse or our victory over Kent St seem more impressive?
And that was at Lincoln, right? Nebraska is horrible. I think it makes our loss worse.
Our loss is MUCH worse than the win. Again, Nebraska will be lucky to win 1 game in the Big 10 this year.
Quote from: valpotx on November 25, 2012, 11:16:27 PM
Our loss is MUCH worse than the win. Again, Nebraska will be lucky to win 1 game in the Big 10 this year.
Not sure Nebraska is that bad. Bottom two of the Big Ten for sure, but will most likely have 2-3 wins in conference.
I could see Nebraska beating a Northwestern, Iowa, Penn St., or Illinois during the B1G Ten season. Illinois has a decent team, but there is always that B1G Ten trap game. Heck, the way Wisconsin is some years, they could get beat by a team like Nebraska too. Can't say they won't win at least one, maybe two, game(s) in conference this year.
Doesn't matter. Our chances for an at-large bid this year died with that loss.
Paul
Quote from: 78crusader on November 26, 2012, 03:11:22 PM
Doesn't matter. Our chances for an at-large bid this year died with that loss.
Paul
I continue to disagree. Beat Murray State, New Mexico, and SLU, in addition to the home games against IUPUI and IPFW that they should win, be #1 seed, and lose in championship game and it is very possible to squeak into an at-large bid.
Quote from: wh on November 17, 2012, 10:04:41 PMFans who were using the restroom I was using at half time of the USC-Upstate game were pissed, I can tell you that. "Too slow" was a phrase I heard, in spite of the fact that I thought they could drive to the hoop at will in the first half. I'm guessing they were happier with the whole 2nd half, but I didn't mill around after the game was over.
No pun intended?
As I always say: Better to be pissed off than pissed on...
Quote from: StlVUFan on November 26, 2012, 03:13:23 PMI continue to disagree.
And I'm with you, Stl. I keep banging the drum that no team with a gaudy W-L (at least 29-5) regardless of RPI etc. has ever been relegated to the NIT. We have 3 or 4 more "losses to burn".
Like a video game, boys. Save some for the "big bosses"
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on November 26, 2012, 07:15:51 PM
Quote from: StlVUFan on November 26, 2012, 03:13:23 PMI continue to disagree.
And I'm with you, Stl. I keep banging the drum that no team with a gaudy W-L (at least 29-5) regardless of RPI etc. has ever been relegated to the NIT. We have 3 or 4 more "losses to burn".
Like a video game, boys. Save some for the "big bosses"
Thanks ;)
Again, I have no problem with anyone who predicts that Valpo will lose one or more of those games I mentioned. I would hope they have serious reasons they can give for such a prediction, but predictions are not the issue.
It's the definitive death sentence kind of declarations that I take issue with. Sort of like Butler in 2010. I had no comment about the continued predictions that Butler would lose. What I laughed at was when they kept saying, "there's no way Butler wins".
It doesn't really affect the team, so of course it is harmless. I don't literally "object" to such statements. I just can't help countering them, that's all. Besides, 6 games is a small sample size. How well defined is this team, really, right now? There's plenty of room for improvement, and I for one prefer to let the season unfold instead of daring to write the epitaph in advance. That's part of the fun of college basketball for me, and why I generally tune out ESPN's college basketball coverage, to say nothing of bracketology everywhere it pops up. It ruins the fun for me.
That's just me. I don't expect anyone else to toe that line. Just putting my position out there. There have been 0 2-loss teams who were excluded from the NCAA tournament just because their 2nd loss was in the conference tournament (especially when it comes in the championship game).
Now, if you're really saying it's not likely, I would wholeheartedly agree. But that makes it merely a challenge. It's not yet dead.
Isn't it fun to watch a team take on a challenge and try to surmount it?
Quote from: StlVUFan on November 26, 2012, 08:07:12 PMThere have been 0 2-loss teams who were excluded from the NCAA tournament just because their 2nd loss was in the conference tournament (especially when it comes in the championship game).
That's great! (Are you just gut-certain of that statement, or is there a site or something whence you gleaned that?)
http://espn.go.com/watchespn/player/_/source/espn3/id/687456/size/condensed/ (http://espn.go.com/watchespn/player/_/source/espn3/id/687456/size/condensed/)
Replay of Murray State/Lipscomb game from Nashville, home of Lipscomb on ESPN 3.
Murray State 88, Lipscomb 79.
I didn't realize MSU had a player with a Buckwheat/Chia Pet afro. Anyone remember the Chia Pet?
(http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=picture+of+buckwheat&view=detail&id=B2060D1BBFF5496F0F63B59C2752432EC4988950&first=1)
bbtds, "Chi, Chi, Chi, Chia!!"
Quote from: valporun on November 26, 2012, 11:07:26 PM
bbtds, "Chi, Chi, Chi, Chia!!"
Well, Chia Pet hair Daniel just made Lipscomb lose in a game the Bison were ahead by 6 or so at one point in the second half. He was really outstanding. Watch out for the Artis Gilmore-haired guy.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on November 26, 2012, 08:53:06 PM
Quote from: StlVUFan on November 26, 2012, 08:07:12 PMThere have been 0 2-loss teams who were excluded from the NCAA tournament just because their 2nd loss was in the conference tournament (especially when it comes in the championship game).
That's great! (Are you just gut-certain of that statement, or is there a site or something whence you gleaned that?)
Just gut-certain. There have been 5-loss teams that were excluded, I'm fairly sure. Not quite sure about 4-loss teams.
Seeding, on the other hand, could be a bit deflating for a 2-loss team, but I'd be absolutely stunned if a 2-loss team ever was excluded from an at-large bid.
In the last few years that sounds right. 5-loss teams are occasionally excluded but no 4-loss teams have been.
Coastal Carolina (28-5) took an auto-bid to the 2011 NIT.
Likewise 26-5 Stephen F. Austin in 2008.
I went back as far as the 2007 NIT, 2009 CBI, 2010 CIT.
Keeping it at a maximum of 6 losses seems to almost, but not quite, guarantee you an NIT bid.
That said, I don't know how many small conference five loss teams make it _into_ the NCAA as at-large. Wichita State (MVC) in 2012. George Mason (26-6) in 2011. Gonzaga. CUSA. A10. Mountain West. South Alabama (26-6) in 2008. Saint Mary's (26-7) in 2008. Old Dominion (24-8) in 2007. Southern Illinois (27-6) in 2007.
For the most part, from a sub-Red Line conference, it seems that if you've managed to keep it to five or six losses you're likely to win your NCAA auto-bid.
gibson, I could have saved you the trouble:
http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=995.msg18627#msg18627 (http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=995.msg18627#msg18627)
but good to know our figures agree.
Anyway, so let's settle on 4 losses for an auto-bid. 2 are already spoken for (Nebraska + whoever in the conf. tourney) so if we can take 2 of 3 from the SLU/UNM/MSU troika, and only drop one conf road game, hold serve at home...
WE CAN DO THIS PEOPLE
But I see you had the same problem as I: how do you know the best who weren't in?
Or as Rumsfeld might put it: how do we know what we know we don't know?
I think our solution (to check the other tourneys, as anyone with that gaudy a record surely got offered to play SOMEWHERE) is as good as it gets, unless there's some site I don't know about.
Nebraska 60, at Wake Forest 40, 8:05 to play.
Just saying.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on November 27, 2012, 06:45:00 PM
But I see you had the same problem as I: how do you know the best who weren't in?
Or as Rumsfeld might put it: how do we know what we know we don't know?
I think our solution (to check the other tourneys, as anyone with that gaudy a record surely got offered to play SOMEWHERE) is as good as it gets, unless there's some site I don't know about.
Or, as Susan Rice would say about the reason for the Benghazi attack: I knew what I didn't know but I'm pretending I didn't.
Or be like Roger Clemens and just "misremember" it...
Quote from: vusupporter on November 27, 2012, 09:46:02 PM
Nebraska 60, at Wake Forest 40, 8:05 to play.
Just saying.
More power to them, though I am not sure how WF is this year. The more wins Nebraska gets, the happier I will be, but I still say that they weren't that good when we saw them
Quote from: valpotx on November 28, 2012, 01:27:15 AM
Quote from: vusupporter on November 27, 2012, 09:46:02 PM
Nebraska 60, at Wake Forest 40, 8:05 to play.
Just saying.
More power to them, though I am not sure how WF is this year. The more wins Nebraska gets, the happier I will be, but I still say that they weren't that good when we saw them
This will tell you everything you need to know about Wake this year:
QuoteIona scored the game's first eight points, led 30-3 midway through the opening half and 48-11 after Tre Bowman's basket 5 minutes, 19 seconds before halftime. The Gaels hit 18 of their first 25 shots, including eight of their first nine 3-pointers.
http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=323220314 (http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=323220314)
Nebraska will either finish 0-18 or 1-17 in the Big 10 this year.
Paul
Could we just stop obsessing about the Nebraska game? Clearly it was a game we could have (or should have!) won, but an early-season 2 point road loss to a BCS team just doesn't mean very much. At the end of the year, if this is listed as our worst loss, we should be thrilled.
Quote from: 78crusader on November 28, 2012, 07:39:36 AM
Nebraska will either finish 0-18 or 1-17 in the Big 10 this year.
Paul
That is a very bad year. Historically I would tend to think that the last place team in the conference normally has 2-3 wins.
Quote from: valpo04 on November 28, 2012, 06:04:10 AM
Quote from: valpotx on November 28, 2012, 01:27:15 AM
Quote from: vusupporter on November 27, 2012, 09:46:02 PM
Nebraska 60, at Wake Forest 40, 8:05 to play.
Just saying.
More power to them, though I am not sure how WF is this year. The more wins Nebraska gets, the happier I will be, but I still say that they weren't that good when we saw them
This will tell you everything you need to know about Wake this year:
QuoteIona scored the game's first eight points, led 30-3 midway through the opening half and 48-11 after Tre Bowman's basket 5 minutes, 19 seconds before halftime. The Gaels hit 18 of their first 25 shots, including eight of their first nine 3-pointers.
http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=323220314 (http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=323220314)
Geez, what the heck happened to Wake to make them so bad??
Quote from: valpotx on November 28, 2012, 09:48:22 AM
Geez, what the heck happened to Wake to make them so bad??
Skip Prosser died, other than that I have no explanation.
Quote from: FWalum on November 28, 2012, 11:24:35 AM
Quote from: valpotx on November 28, 2012, 09:48:22 AM
Geez, what the heck happened to Wake to make them so bad??
Skip Prosser died, other than that I have no explanation.
After Prosser passed away, Dino Gaudio coached for three years, was fired, and the AD brought in his friend Jeff Bzdelik. Went way down the first year under Bzdelik. Never understood the firing of Gaudio.
2001-02 Atlantic Coast Conference Skip Prosser 21 13 9 7 t-3rd Semifinalist NCAA 2nd Round — [1]
2002-03 Atlantic Coast Conference Skip Prosser 25 6 13 3 1st Semifinalist NCAA 2nd Round 8 [1]
2003-04 Atlantic Coast Conference Skip Prosser 21 10 9 7 t-3rd Quarterfinalist NCAA Sweet 16 17 [1]
2004-05 Atlantic Coast Conference Skip Prosser 27 6 13 3 2nd Quarterfinalist NCAA 2nd Round 5 [1]
2005-06 Atlantic Coast Conference Skip Prosser 17 17 3 13 12th Semifinalist NIT 1st Round — [1]
2006-07 Atlantic Coast Conference Skip Prosser 15 16 5 11 t-10th Quarterfinalist — — [1]
2007-08 Atlantic Coast Conference Dino Gaudio 17 13 7 9 t-7th 1st Round — — [1]
2008-09 Atlantic Coast Conference Dino Gaudio 24 7 11 5 t-2nd Quarterfinalist NCAA 1st Round 12 [1]
2009-10 Atlantic Coast Conference Dino Gaudio 20 11 9 7 t-5th 1st Round NCAA 2nd Round —
2010-11 Atlantic Coast Conference Jeff Bzdelik 8 24 1 15 12th 1st Round — —
2011-12 Atlantic Coast Conference Jeff Bzdelik 13 18 4 12 t-9th 1st Round — —
|
or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wake_Forest_Demon_Deacons_men%27s_basketball (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wake_Forest_Demon_Deacons_men%27s_basketball)
Wake fired Gaudio to "change the culture" and to win in post-season. So, they hired a coach with no experience winning in post-season. That coach has demonstrated that he his content with mid-major talent and a lack of coaching ability of that talent. It's a tough situation now. If you all are interested in more info, see www.bloggersodear.com (http://www.bloggersodear.com)
Quote from: valpo95 on November 28, 2012, 07:51:14 AM
Could we just stop obsessing about the Nebraska game? Clearly it was a game we could have (or should have!) won, but an early-season 2 point road loss to a BCS team just doesn't mean very much. At the end of the year, if this is listed as our worst loss, we should be thrilled.
When they only play 3 or 4 decent teams out of conference, you tend to obsess over them when you think they should win or have a chance to win. The record against BCS teams over the last decade or so is less than stellar. Since most of the teams in the NCAA are from BCS conferences, being able to beat one every so often would be nice.
For the record, I have zero issue with the angst over the Nebraska loss. It was a power conference team just waiting to be beat and we swung and missed. Those opportunities don't come around very often.
My disagreement is with the belief that our at-large chances are dead and buried because of it, as if the committee takes one look at that loss and stops.
Quote from: StlVUFan on November 29, 2012, 08:11:43 PM
For the record, I have zero issue with the angst over the Nebraska loss. It was a power conference team just waiting to be beat and we swung and missed. Those opportunities don't come around very often.
My disagreement is with the belief that our at-large chances are dead and buried because of it, as if the committee takes one look at that loss and stops.
Before we can even think about an at-large chance, we need to be in the top 40 or so, whether it be Sagarin, RPI or whatever your choice of ranking system. If we are outside of that, no chance for at-large berth.
If we are in the top 40 or so, a loss to Nebraska will only be graded poorly on us if Nebraska is well less than 100 in the rankings. If Nebraska improves over the course of this season, which is possible with a new coaching staff, they could easily be in the top 100, and a two point loss to them will not matter much.
Quote from: covufan on November 30, 2012, 03:16:47 PM
Quote from: StlVUFan on November 29, 2012, 08:11:43 PM
For the record, I have zero issue with the angst over the Nebraska loss. It was a power conference team just waiting to be beat and we swung and missed. Those opportunities don't come around very often.
My disagreement is with the belief that our at-large chances are dead and buried because of it, as if the committee takes one look at that loss and stops.
Before we can even think about an at-large chance, we need to be in the top 40 or so, whether it be Sagarin, RPI or whatever your choice of ranking system. If we are outside of that, no chance for at-large berth.
If we are in the top 40 or so, a loss to Nebraska will only be graded poorly on us if Nebraska is well less than 100 in the rankings. If Nebraska improves over the course of this season, which is possible with a new coaching staff, they could easily be in the top 100, and a two point loss to them will not matter much.
Agreed totally. Please don't misunderstand me: I'm not predicting an at-large bid. It would be the first one in (a) a long, long, LONG time or (b) in history. It stands to reason it's a long shot. I am *not* thinking about an at-large bid. I'm thinking about St. Louis on Sunday (and my seat in section 216; actually I'm thinking a little about dinner with Bryce first ;) )
I want to put all this in here so test my Nostradamus-ness (or should that be Elder Paisios?), from the live-chatango for this game (Thursday, Nov 15 for anyone interested in going back through the Chatango thread :
QuoteAveApostle2: --if they {N------a} win more than 2 games in the B1G this year I will post
i don't know
something embarrassing.
because it won't happen.
then
QuoteValporun: AVE, they'll get a win over Minnesota or Iowa, neither one of them is very good, and Northwestern isn't the same as they've been the last two years.
AveApostle2: Minnesota will be top half of conference. I promise you that. i will even save this chat as proof ••
so...i guess we'll see.