Why doesn't alex rossi have a role on our team?
Quote from: truth219 on December 06, 2012, 09:39:55 AM
Why doesn't alex rossi have a role on our team?
I do not know that "role" is the best word for this but getting only 31 minutes of playing time in 8 games does raise some questions. I have not yet seen enough of his play to say anything but that his shot looks great and his defense looks a little suspect, but I would like to know more either by seeing him play and making mistakes or by the staff speaking directly to the issue. If Rossi only deserves 5 minutes per game in 6 appearances now, then obviously he should vanish completely when Dority starts playing.
Or maybe he is to be the Tommy Kurth medical mystery story of 2012-2013 in which case I would now declare that we should let the "needless speculation" begin. For added entertainment maybe Milan and I can start a brand new ****ing match with me pretending this year to be Alexs grandfather instead of last year being Tommys. ;)
Quote from: truth219 on December 06, 2012, 09:39:55 AMWhy doesn't alex rossi have a role on our team?
To me, at least, its quite simple. Jordan Coleman and Ben Boggs are getting more minutes on the perimeter than most people probably expected before the season started. The two of them are probably taking 10-15 minutes away from Alex Rossi right now.
Quote from: vubballfan10 on December 06, 2012, 01:55:50 PM
Quote from: truth219 on December 06, 2012, 09:39:55 AMWhy doesn't alex rossi have a role on our team?
To me, at least, its quite simple. Jordan Coleman and Ben Boggs are getting more minutes on the perimeter than most people probably expected before the season started. The two of them are probably taking 10-15 minutes away from Alex Rossi right now.
I think the question being asked here is: why? My sense is that we have not heard much of anything about him from the coaching staff, positive or negative. My guess would be that he's not earning the additional playing time, and we're probably never going to find out why.
Wouldn't reporters be asking the question usually?
(I have been asking tbe question for some time. I think its the defense but we have other players with obvious weaknesses that still play?)
Quote from: Smj on December 06, 2012, 07:12:46 PM
Wouldn't reporters be asking the question usually?
(I have been asking tbe question for some time. I think its the defense but we have other players with obvious weaknesses that still play?)
Good point. I myself am kicking myself I didn't ask about him last Saturday when Bryce was fielding questions.
He doesn't play any defense would be my guess. Even in his garbage time minutes he looks lost defensively. I don't know if its lack of effort or ability. I imagine once they see improved defense in practice/garbage time he will get more looks during the important parts of the game.
Ah,
material causeQuote from: vubballfan10 on December 06, 2012, 01:55:50 PMTo me, at least, its quite simple. Jordan Coleman and Ben Boggs are getting more minutes
vs
formal causeQuote from: justducky on December 06, 2012, 12:57:46 PMhis defense looks a little suspect
:)
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on December 06, 2012, 08:04:58 PM
Ah, material cause
Quote from: vubballfan10 on December 06, 2012, 01:55:50 PMTo me, at least, its quite simple. Jordan Coleman and Ben Boggs are getting more minutes
vs formal cause
Quote from: justducky on December 06, 2012, 12:57:46 PMhis defense looks a little suspect
:)
How very 16th century of you 8)
Sure sounds like everyone thinks it is defense but I think we have other players with weaknesses and they can still find a time in a game where they can work around the weakness. Sure would like to see a little more time from him or an article about his contributions/future plans. Got to be hard for him as well - he seems like a good kid.
Quote from: StlVUFan on December 06, 2012, 09:58:18 PMHow very 16th century of you
ahh, Lutherans...
shockingly, i know, amazing and wonderful things happened in the world before 1517.
that's 4th century...BC. Aristotle--and there's a guy who could shoot AND defend. Very much "the man in Form".
I'm hoping that defense is not the issue for Alex. My memory from HS senior ranking as a recruit was that his defense was 2nd best asset after shooting. He looks a little smaller than 6'5" to me.
His defense in high school could be suspect based on the style of play in high school, competition played, and how good the programs were that he played against. He might not be as ready has his high school numbers and inflated internet ranking say he really is now?
Quote from: valporun on December 07, 2012, 02:40:27 PMinflated internet ranking
Is there some reason you threw this into the conversation?
Because most internet ratings are inflated based on regional guest bloggers or eyes who sent in information to the main writer of the website. These scouts inflate things for the good of getting hits to their websites, and might have never really seen the player they rated based on words from some regional guy who sent in information.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on December 07, 2012, 07:52:21 AM
Quote from: StlVUFan on December 06, 2012, 09:58:18 PMHow very 16th century of you
ahh, Lutherans...
shockingly, i know, amazing and wonderful things happened in the world before 1517.
that's 4th century...BC. Aristotle--and there's a guy who could shoot AND defend. Very much "the man in Form".
Right, my bad. But it was used during the reformation, and also during the controversy in the early 1970s here in St. Louis.
Quote from: valporun on December 07, 2012, 02:50:17 PMBecause most internet ratings are inflated based on regional guest bloggers or eyes who sent in information to the main writer of the website.
But inflated rankings in "most" cases would almost entirely cancel itself out...i.e. if almost everyone's inflated, then it balances.
"Inflated rankings" don't explain why he received a full ride to one of the most successful Pac 12 programs this side of UCLA.
Quote from: valporun on December 07, 2012, 02:40:27 PMHis defense in high school could be suspect based on the style of play in high school, competition played, and how good the programs were that he played against. He might not be as ready has his high school numbers and inflated internet ranking say he really is now?
Understanding that you said "could be", I thought I'd try to address these points since I followed Alex Rossi (and HS Bball in the North Shore) pretty closely:
1. New Trier played in one of the toughest conferences in the state, Waukegan, Evanston, Maine South were all very good while he was there
2. Rossi was conference POY over a McDonalds All-American (Jeremy Richmond, Waukegan)
3. New Trier is known for annually playing one of the toughest non-conference schedules in the state. They routinely play the best teams from the Chicago Public league, they play in the Proviso West Holiday tournament and all this on top of playing in one of the largest school conferences in Illinois
4. Rossi played on one of the best AAU programs in the nation (Rising Stars), he was also a starter and key contributor on that team with players who have done extremely well in college including (Lenzelle Smith, starter for OH St, Rayvonte Rice who was dominate at Drake and is currently sitting at Illinois due to a transfer and Ben Brust, WI (who actually played behind Rossi)
5. Rossi had offers from ND, Virginia, Stanford, many big 10 schools and several pac 12 schools as well other High Majors
Finally, it's my guess that Bryce is content to "save" Rossi for next season, get him stronger (since he's essentially playing his freshman year right now) and play the many seniors he's got at the same position. That being said, I think at some point we need to score and with Kenney, Boggs and Bogan not doing much of that we could see Rossi get more mins (assuming he's healthy).
just my :twocents:
Quote from: wittynamehere on December 08, 2012, 08:08:50 AMFinally, it's my guess that Bryce is content to "save" Rossi for next season, get him stronger (since he's essentially playing his freshman year right now) and play the many seniors he's got at the same position
Thanks for this post/analysis. I am glad to hear it, not just because it confirms my suspicions.
However, to repeat myself once more, it's (ironically! I know!) bad for VU and perhaps for Alex too that the NCAA granted his hardship waiver. Otherwise he could be "saved" for next season without loss of eligibility, and hey! Free Master's degree too!
Alex Rossi in 2015-16 >>>> Alex Rossi this year, right? But we'll never know now. OK, I'll never repeat myself again.
I'll never repeat myself again.
I don't think Rossi would have gained another year by sitting out this year. You have to complete your 4 years of eligibility during a 5 year period. This is his 3rd year thus the 14-15 season is/was going to be he's final season of college basketball.
Quote from: chef on December 08, 2012, 11:43:24 AMI don't think Rossi would have gained another year by sitting out this year. You have to complete your 4 years of eligibility during a 5 year period.
If that were strictly true, then Greg Tonagel, Scott Martin, etc., would never have been given a 6th year.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on December 08, 2012, 03:42:35 PM
Quote from: chef on December 08, 2012, 11:43:24 AMI don't think Rossi would have gained another year by sitting out this year. You have to complete your 4 years of eligibility during a 5 year period.
If that were strictly true, then Greg Tonagel, Scott Martin, etc., would never have been given a 6th year.
Greg was granted two injury redshirt years, Scott Martin's injury redshirt year came after his transfer redshirt. I don't believe any player has ever been granted a sixth year who had already missed a year due to injury and then chose to transfer.
Yes, in most cases, 6th years are granted to players that stay at the same school, no transfers are usually allowed for that.
Hey rossi got 25 seconds tonight....
Quote from: truth219 on December 08, 2012, 10:21:57 PM
Hey rossi got 25 seconds tonight....
He was in there for the 14 point play devised just for Alex.
Why do coaches put guys in the game with less than a minute to go with no chance of winning during mop up time? What good does that do? Most of the time is spent watching FT's shot and trying to foul.
Quote from: bbtds on December 08, 2012, 11:00:45 PM
Quote from: truth219 on December 08, 2012, 10:21:57 PM
Hey rossi got 25 seconds tonight....
He was in there for the 14 point play devised just for Alex.
Why do coaches put guys in the game with less than a minute to go with no chance of winning during mop up time? What good does that do? Most of the time is spent watching FT's shot and trying to foul.
Um... to avoid piling on, to rest a starter when the game has been decided...
This concept is new to you? ???
Quote from: StlVUFan on December 08, 2012, 11:10:51 PM
Um... to avoid piling on, to rest a starter when the game has been decided...
This concept is new to you? ???
24 seconds - why bother... :crazy: I watched this game and was really thinking Rossi would get a couple minutes at the end so I could analyze his play - no such luck....
Quote from: HC on December 08, 2012, 11:21:22 PM
That was a pretty rediculous response STLVU.
It was snarky, I'll cop to that. How was it ridiculous? I guess I don't understand the question. "Garbage time" is a fairly common practice, for the reasons I cited. Am I wrong?
I guess you could say, yes, there is no point to it, but I don't understand the point of questioning it, either, I guess. What does it matter? The game's over.
Quote from: Smj on December 08, 2012, 11:34:26 PM
Quote from: StlVUFan on December 08, 2012, 11:10:51 PM
Um... to avoid piling on, to rest a starter when the game has been decided...
This concept is new to you? ???
24 seconds - why bother... :crazy: I watched this game and was really thinking Rossi would get a couple minutes at the end so I could analyze his play - no such luck....
I see your point there. Having sat on the end of bench many times, I was thrilled just to get in, but that was 8th-10th grade and this is much different. I can see where Alex might say "why bother". I'm sure he didn't come in with 2 minutes to go because Bryce still had hopes of a comeback at that point.
OK, OK. I surrender ;)
Quote from: StlVUFan on December 08, 2012, 11:10:51 PM
Quote from: bbtds on December 08, 2012, 11:00:45 PM
Quote from: truth219 on December 08, 2012, 10:21:57 PM
Hey rossi got 25 seconds tonight....
He was in there for the 14 point play devised just for Alex.
Why do coaches put guys in the game with less than a minute to go with no chance of winning during mop up time? What good does that do? Most of the time is spent watching FT's shot and trying to foul.
Um... to avoid piling on, to rest a starter when the game has been decided...
This concept is new to you? ???
No, not at all new to me. Just puzzling. Unless your team is out of players on the bench why put in a player who is fresh off the bench for less than a minute when you have another player who has already played during the game, but is not a starter, and is obviously better than the player who is fresh off the bench. What benefit is gained by that bench player seeing the floor for less than a minute?
It's not about the benefits for the bench player in this case.
Quote from: HC on December 09, 2012, 07:26:27 AM
It's not about the benefits for the bench player in this case.
What is it about? This whole thing is quite weird. From a distance, nothing seems logical. In exhibitions wasn't he involved and didn't he drain like three treys in a row in one game. Now only splinters and DBP-CD?
Quote from: VULB#62 on December 09, 2012, 08:12:37 AM
Quote from: HC on December 09, 2012, 07:26:27 AM
It's not about the benefits for the bench player in this case.
What is it about? This whole thing is quite weird. From a distance, nothing seems logical. In exhibitions wasn't he involved and didn't he drain like three treys in a row in one game. Now only splinters and DBP-CD?
Actually it's quite normal. Lots of teams do this. As an example I bring up Chris Halvorsen, a transfer from Valpo. I don't know if you remember him or not, but he came in with great credentials (albeit from Minnesota) and didn't play much at Valpo. He averaged 1 pt and 4.4 minutes a game here. He then decided to return home and walk on at Minnesota, where last year he played a grand total of 15 minutes over nine games and scored A point. Yep, one. The point being...even though there might be nothing that jumps out at you, he did not have what they need or he might be as good as he's going to get and not worth developing further. There's only so many minutes to go around, and if somebody does more things to help the team than you do, they're going to play.
All that being said, I think he could have a roll on this team, and a few minutes here and there wouldn't seem outlandish.
Quote from: VULB#62 on December 09, 2012, 08:12:37 AM
Quote from: HC on December 09, 2012, 07:26:27 AM
It's not about the benefits for the bench player in this case.
What is it about? This whole thing is quite weird. From a distance, nothing seems logical. In exhibitions wasn't he involved and didn't he drain like three treys in a row in one game. Now only splinters and DBP-CD?
That's a different question, and quite a good one, although I would assume that there must be a valid reason why he doesn't play more.
At this rate, with Rossi, he might just have to bide his time because there are only so many guard minutes, and Bryce doesn't seem to be going away from the lack of productivity on a regular basis from Boggs/Buggs/Bogan to give Rossi anymore minutes than he's already receiving. It's possible that Bryce has talked with Rossi about this for next year, as he could be our 6th man next year to replace Kenney with all the "highly touted" young pups that are supposed to get minutes next year, and score "lights out", as some posters have gone "gaga" over in the recruiting thread. Unless Rossi does something to change Bryce's mind, or an injury happens to one of the starting three guards, Rossi will be enjoying some time communicating with Nick Shelton at the end of the bench.
Quote from: bbtds on December 09, 2012, 06:43:16 AM
Quote from: StlVUFan on December 08, 2012, 11:10:51 PM
Quote from: bbtds on December 08, 2012, 11:00:45 PM
Quote from: truth219 on December 08, 2012, 10:21:57 PM
Hey rossi got 25 seconds tonight....
He was in there for the 14 point play devised just for Alex.
Why do coaches put guys in the game with less than a minute to go with no chance of winning during mop up time? What good does that do? Most of the time is spent watching FT's shot and trying to foul.
Um... to avoid piling on, to rest a starter when the game has been decided...
This concept is new to you? ???
No, not at all new to me. Just puzzling. Unless your team is out of players on the bench why put in a player who is fresh off the bench for less than a minute when you have another player who has already played during the game, but is not a starter, and is obviously better than the player who is fresh off the bench. What benefit is gained by that bench player seeing the floor for less than a minute?
None. There is no in-game benefit to be gained by anything you do at that point.
<shrug> It's a long tradition. Because there's no reason not to. Because there's nothing to be gained by putting in someone else who has already played -- because the game is over.
Why have coaches done this since the beginning of time? Other than the reasons I cited in my initial reply, the only other one I can think of is: they love to get everyone some playing time. They apologize to the end-of-benchers for not being able to give them a little more.
I think it's just traditional. I guess I'm taken aback by the question.
If the plan for Rossi is to play next year it would make sense to get him a little "experience" to bring to next year's young team. I think all of us are assuming something is keeping from playing.... We just enjoy speculating and analyzing our team. I know there is a reason - just wish I knew what it was...
In a game where you aren't getting much bench scoring he seems like an option worth trying - those 3 threes in exibihition just created more mystery for us to speculate about. Rossi is a scholarship player that"seems" like we could use at times.
(on a side note - his basketball success in the past makes me feel a bit bad for him because I am thinking that he thought he would be playing here.)
Quote from: Smj on December 09, 2012, 11:31:26 AM
If the plan for Rossi is to play next year it would make sense to get him a little "experience" to bring to next year's young team. I think all of us are assuming something is keeping from playing.... We just enjoy speculating and analyzing our team. I know there is a reason - just wish I knew what it was...
In a game where you aren't getting much bench scoring he seems like an option worth trying - those 3 threes in exibihition just created more mystery for us to speculate about. Rossi is a scholarship player that"seems" like we could use at times.
(on a side note - his basketball success in the past makes me feel a bit bad for him because I am thinking that he thought he would be playing here.)
I feel bad for anybody who doesn't get to play. I am sure he works just as hard as everyone else in practice, but doesn't get the rewards of playing in the game. He could be injured? Maybe? There was a rumor on the Cal blog that he might not have recovered from his hernia, so could that be true? I don't know? That goes all the way back to April so it's purely speculation.
Quote from: milanmiracle on December 09, 2012, 11:42:13 AM
Quote from: Smj on December 09, 2012, 11:31:26 AM
If the plan for Rossi is to play next year it would make sense to get him a little "experience" to bring to next year's young team. I think all of us are assuming something is keeping from playing.... We just enjoy speculating and analyzing our team. I know there is a reason - just wish I knew what it was...
In a game where you aren't getting much bench scoring he seems like an option worth trying - those 3 threes in exibihition just created more mystery for us to speculate about. Rossi is a scholarship player that"seems" like we could use at times.
(on a side note - his basketball success in the past makes me feel a bit bad for him because I am thinking that he thought he would be playing here.)
I feel bad for anybody who doesn't get to play. I am sure he works just as hard as everyone else in practice, but doesn't get the rewards of playing in the game. He could be injured? Maybe? There was a rumor on the Cal blog that he might not have recovered from his hernia, so could that be true? I don't know? That goes all the way back to April so it's purely speculation.
Rossi had hernia surgery too? Did not know that.
Quote from: StlVUFan on December 09, 2012, 03:42:43 PM
Rossi had hernia surgery too? Did not know that.
Interesting ... If that is it maybe he is still recovering...
As for the thoughts about defense I think it contradicts with Cal's thoughts about recruiting him and his history if it is accurate... http://www.calbears.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/rossi_alex00.html (http://www.calbears.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/rossi_alex00.html)
Quote from: StlVUFan on December 09, 2012, 03:42:43 PM
Quote from: milanmiracle on December 09, 2012, 11:42:13 AM
Quote from: Smj on December 09, 2012, 11:31:26 AM
If the plan for Rossi is to play next year it would make sense to get him a little "experience" to bring to next year's young team. I think all of us are assuming something is keeping from playing.... We just enjoy speculating and analyzing our team. I know there is a reason - just wish I knew what it was...
In a game where you aren't getting much bench scoring he seems like an option worth trying - those 3 threes in exibihition just created more mystery for us to speculate about. Rossi is a scholarship player that"seems" like we could use at times.
(on a side note - his basketball success in the past makes me feel a bit bad for him because I am thinking that he thought he would be playing here.)
I feel bad for anybody who doesn't get to play. I am sure he works just as hard as everyone else in practice, but doesn't get the rewards of playing in the game. He could be injured? Maybe? There was a rumor on the Cal blog that he might not have recovered from his hernia, so could that be true? I don't know? That goes all the way back to April so it's purely speculation.
Rossi had hernia surgery too? Did not know that.
I don't know that he had surgery, just going off speculation on a Cal blog...
http://www.californiagoldenblogs.com/2012/4/10/2939253/california-golden-bears-emerson-murray-alex-rossi (http://www.californiagoldenblogs.com/2012/4/10/2939253/california-golden-bears-emerson-murray-alex-rossi)
Quote from: milanmiracle on December 09, 2012, 06:42:52 PMI don't know that he had surgery
I
do: http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/2011/02/01/basketball-alex-rossi-has-surgery/ (http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/2011/02/01/basketball-alex-rossi-has-surgery/)
...and
that is what made me figure that he could get a
transfer redshirt since the first 'shirt was
injury-related.
BUT the NCAA -- it now strikes me thus -- must have telegraphed their desire NOT to allow him a 6th year by granting him a hardship waiver. Thus, they can now perhaps be construed to be saying, "you won't be given a 6th year, so we'll split the difference and declare you immediately eligible."
Here's CaliforniaGoldenBlog's take:
http://www.californiagoldenblogs.com/2012/4/10/2939253/california-golden-bears-emerson-murray-alex-rossi (http://www.californiagoldenblogs.com/2012/4/10/2939253/california-golden-bears-emerson-murray-alex-rossi)
Quote... hard to say what happened with Rossi. Scuttlebutt is that there was a family emergency back home and he's heading back to a school closer to Illinois. It's also quite possible that there's an unofficial reason: That his hernia injury never recovered to the point where the coaches thought he'd be able to play at a high level the next several seasons. We'll probably get our answer if Rossi transfers to another D-I program or not.
Whatever the case, it's a bigger blow than Murray, as a healthy Rossi could've provided the Bears with another shooting option to pair alongside Crabbe to free both up for better looks. Rossi has a good shooting stroke that could've opened up the three point line for us.
(No word on whether Goyle returns to be a low-post threat...)
EDIT: !!!!!!!
BONUS HARRY POTTER REFERENCE IN THE COMMENTS TO THE ABOVE BLOG
QuoteI was looking forward to making signs showing how similar Rossi looks to the actor who plays Neville Longbottom in the Harry Potter movies, but I suppose that is someone else's burden now
by Thetravesty on Apr 10, 2012 10:49 PM PDT
oh, dear lord. that's funny right there. (the hp references, for the record.)
i figured you meant HP. the only thing funny about hernias is
"Weird Al" Yankovic - Living With A Hernia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8Ow1nlafOg#)
QuoteI was looking forward to making signs showing how similar Rossi looks to the actor who plays Neville Longbottom in the Harry Potter movies, but I suppose that is someone else's burden now
by Thetravesty on Apr 10, 2012 10:49 PM PDT
Here you go, TheTravesty, here you go:
http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=1024.msg21400#msg21400 (http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=1024.msg21400#msg21400)
Quote from: wittynamehere on December 08, 2012, 08:08:50 AMFinally, it's my guess that Bryce is content to "save" Rossi for next season, get him stronger (since he's essentially playing his freshman year right now) and play the many seniors he's got at the same position. That being said, I think at some point we need to score and with Kenney, Boggs and Bogan not doing much of that we could see Rossi get more mins (assuming he's healthy).
Our choices for possible answers are
1 That he has been somewhat to vastly overrated in the past.
2 That he is essentially a freshman trying to compete with talented upperclassmen for very scarce minutes on the floor.
3 That he is not fully healthy or recovered.
4 That there is some combination of the above.
Until I am told otherwise my personal opinion is that his health or recovery has something to do with it, and that a direct question to Bryce or the staff might gain us some insight. If they once again lapse into the "working through some issues" song and dance, non- answer type answer routine then I will not be optimistic that he can make any significant contribution to the team this season.
Given post #17 on this thread (which you are quoting) I would have to say we can eliminate
1 as a possibility. Now,
in 2012, maybe he's been passed by on the developmental scale because of
a) injuries or
b) hitting the peak of his talents in HS or
c) a ton of late bloomers who blossom with improved college coaching, but I don't think there's a legitimate case to be made that he was overrated
in 2010. Not in Chicago, not with extensive AAU, not
especially in this day and age of 24-7
RECRUITZ!!! reporting/website/analysis.
I suppose it could still be
3. Obviously hernias can be vastly different in severity, so it's not fair to compare him to Bobby, or your uncle Louie or whoever you know that had one. But in February he was playing and saying this after a game (in which he was 1-3 3-pt with an assist in 7 min): http://www.calbears.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/020412aag.html (http://www.calbears.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/020412aag.html)
QuoteOn his injury recovery
"I feel good. I haven't had any hiccups, the last couple weeks. Today, when I went out there, I felt athletic. I need to work on my strength, but I am making good progress and coming along, quickly."
This is
a year after his surgery. He only played 16 min over 3 games last year, so clearly, strength/stamina were issues. I also don't feel that we can discount family "issues"--it's not as if he left Cal solely because of PT--he was granted a hardship waiver to come much, much closer to home, and there was talk of some type of family problems. I hope and pray, as I'm sure we all do, that those issues have been resolved, but maybe there's mental hurdles to overcome as well as physical ones. Certainly no one could blame him.
What seems the most logical in the light of all this is that
2...he's simply squeezed for minutes by people like Bogan, who is like 20 years older than he is, and next year we will all look back on this and laugh.
2:12 minutes in the last 4 games, though, people. All garbage time. Yikes.
Bonus: Working backward, ladies and gentlemen, Alex Rossi, this is your season!!!
UNM: entered for Vashil for the last 25 sec.
IPFW: DNP-CD
STL: entered for Boggs for the last 56 sec.
B-C: entered for Broekhoff for the last 51 sec.
CSU: entered (w/Bogan) for Vashil or Buggs at 13:10, 1st half. (probably Vashil as Bogan at point?) Picked up nothing but a foul in 3:02 exited for Buggs at 10:08.
entered (w/Coleman) for Bogan or Kenney for the last 3:54, 2nd half. Missed a 3 and had a TO.
KSU: DNP-CD
NEB: entered (w/Buggs) for Kenney or Coleman at 11:32, 1st half. No stats in 2:12. exited for Kenney or Coleman at 9:20.
entered for Boggs at 5:12. Missed a 3-ptr in 1:34. exited for Boggs at 3:38.
entered for Kenney or Coleman at 9:21, 2nd half. (probably Kenney because exited for him later) A turnover in 1:29. exited for Kenney at 7:52.
NIU: entered for ? at 8:57, 2nd half. Bunch of stats. Does not show him exiting, but he is only credited with 7 min in the box. Of course, it also claims that he entered with DAVID CHADWICK, so clearly, 7 AM starts=tired scorekeepers.
GSU: entered (w/Buggs) for Bogan or Kenney for the last 11:26 (probably Kenney b/c Bogan backup point again) Bunch of 3s and such.
DOUBLE BONUS PRESEASON ACTION:
RMU: entered for Buggs at 4:15, 2nd half. Some things happened.
SJC: entered (w/Buggs) for Broekhoff or Bogan at 14:10, 1st half. (again, probably Broekhoff, b/c Bogan point yada.) Preseason stuff happened. exited (w/3 others) probably for Kenney or Coleman at 11:05.
entered (w/Bogan) probably for Boggs at 6:30. (Buggs = Bogan etc.) Preseason fever catch it exited (w/3 others) probably for Kenney or Boggs.
entered (w/2 others) for Broekhoff or Coleman at 13:23, 2nd half. exited (w/3 others) probably for Broekhoff at 10:43.
entered (for ?) at 7:58. exited for Vashil at 4:02.
entered again for Kenney at 3:17.
TAKEAWAYS:
Call him "the Closer"--he's finished 8 of the 9 games in which he's played (NIU maybe not).
He had good games vs. NIU and GSU (great vs GSU, really).
Otherwise...no real discernible patterns (has subbed in for EIGHT different people; been subbed for only 6, but then again, he's always closing, so not being subbed).
The fact that we don't know the story about this kid is dumb. Why don't the coaches say what's going on with this young lad.
I've heard some rumors about discipline issues (I have no idea if that's off the court or during practice or what), but seeing him dressed like Chadwick for a second game and hints about health issues, I would bet that we'll hear an announcement about medical redshirt before long. Boggs was going to sit tonight, but he still was in uniform, while Alex wasn't. If anyone else has a different explanation, I'd like to hear (or read) it.
I heard that it is a serious medical issue along the lines of what Tommy Kurth was dealing with but not related exactly as far as medical conditions.
Let's just say that Alex is sitting out for medical reasons and not due to his play. The Valpo staff and Alex Rossi have decided not to reveal the medical condition.
bbtds, if this is true about Rossi, then it's understandable with HIPPA laws being what they are.
Rossi has the choice to share or withhold. It is his personal information. Just hope it is nothing too serious.
Quote from: agibson on January 05, 2013, 11:34:13 AM
OK, here it is in the Post Tribune piece
http://posttrib.suntimes.com/sports/17391869-556/mens-basketball-valpo-comes-out-firing-after-loss-players-only-meeting.html (http://posttrib.suntimes.com/sports/17391869-556/mens-basketball-valpo-comes-out-firing-after-loss-players-only-meeting.html)
Men's basketball: Valpo comes out firing after loss, players-only meeting
By Michael Osipoff 648-3137 or mosipoff@post-trib.com January 4, 2013 10:38PM
Quote
Notes: Boggs missed the game because of turf toe, a problem that has been bothering him since the Murray State game. He would have been available in an emergency, with Drew estimating his capacity at "50 percent." ... California transfer Alex Rossi, who last played against Purdue Calumet, has been dealing with "medical" issues, and will be further evaluated, with more expected to be known in the next several days, Drew said.
Quote from: Smj on January 05, 2013, 11:04:44 AM
Rossi has the choice to share or withhold.
And he is under absolutely no obligation to do so.
The National Enquirer mentality is one of the more common and regrettable extremes that sports fandom all too often lapses into these days.
It seems he has foot problems and has been getting consultations. I would anticipate more info shortly.
I would say Rossi absolutely is under obligation to share or withhold...because, after all, he can't NOT do one or the other! :P
Quote from: bbtds on January 05, 2013, 07:38:08 AM
I heard that it is a serious medical issue along the lines of what Tommy Kurth was dealing with but not related exactly as far as medical conditions.
Let's just say that Alex is sitting out for medical reasons and not due to his play. The Valpo staff and Alex Rossi have decided not to reveal the medical condition.
Quote from: humbleopinion on January 05, 2013, 10:04:06 PM
It seems he has foot problems and has been getting consultations. I would anticipate more info shortly.
Would I be reading this correctly to say that this has nothing to do with the hernia but might be similar in some way with the problem that cost Kurth both of his little toes? That might go a long way towards explaining why his defense seemed a little slow. Or from the meager clues provided should Dr Ducky conclude that he he has a very rare foot hernia that might require a fundoplication? ???
Will we ever get answers on this guy. Will he be back next year or what?
He might be the key to a very good next year or a struggling one with mixed results. I suspect that based on his espn ranking that his defensive issues were due to the foot problem. I can't remember exactly but I seem to remember the reports saying that he was a good defender. That aside, we probably won't have a problem with ball handling and with Bobby, Vashil, Adekoye and Chadwick we probably will be OK on the rebounding area as well. The question then, is how to replace the scoring and at present, that burden will fall at the feet of freshman, unless, we could find a mature kid who has already proven to some degree that he is a lights out shooter.
Bringing Peters off the bench could be much the same as bring Dunham off the bench for Butler. Just when the opposition thinks they have figured us out, we bring in a kid who can shoot lights out, and then what? Well, we certainly will have a BUNCH of unknowns going into next year. Let's just get it done this year. It is our best chance in many years.
Quote from: vu72 on January 29, 2013, 08:13:04 PMBringing Peters off the bench could be much the same as bring Dunham off the bench for Butler. Just when the opposition thinks they have figured us out, we bring in a kid who can shoot lights out, and then what?
I can't see Peters not breaking into the starting lineup.
Do you think lexus williams could start over dority
I was told more information about Rossi's foot issues that may give some insight. Evidently, one of his feet did not grow as quickly as the other. He had an operation for the condition in California, and it has taken longer to recuperate than had been anticipated. I hope that when he is compared to Kurth, the comparison does not include the debilitating complications that he experienced.
Quote from: truth219 on January 29, 2013, 08:38:13 PM
Do you think lexus williams could start over dority
No, they won't even be competing for the same position. Williams would be a backup point guard to Carter. Dority will most likely start at the shooting guard position.
Quote from: valpopal on January 29, 2013, 08:18:14 PM
Quote from: vu72 on January 29, 2013, 08:13:04 PMBringing Peters off the bench could be much the same as bring Dunham off the bench for Butler. Just when the opposition thinks they have figured us out, we bring in a kid who can shoot lights out, and then what?
I can't see Peters not breaking into the starting lineup.
My feeling relative to the Peters, Williams questions has to do with maturity. Think of Rowdy. Sure he contributed his freshman year but, unless pressed into action, re:Nuness, Kurth or Buggs, a freshman just has to adjust to a much faster and more skilled opposition. As for Dority, no way he doesn't start. He is mature, built like a brick sh..outhouse and once he gains comfort with his role and playing with his teammates, will look much better.
Carter won't be elidgible until december.
OK, we've hammered out the backcourt... who starts in the 4/5 spots? Bobby? Chadwick? Yeo?
Yeo isn't very big. He's more of a gaurd
Quote from: vu72 on January 29, 2013, 10:08:33 PMbuilt like a brick sh..outhouse
And what exactly is a sh..outhouse? Do you go there to make donkey loud noises?
Quote from: historyman on January 29, 2013, 10:59:51 PMDo you go there to make donkey loud noises?
Depends on how much fiber is in your diet. If you're eating like a donkey, you're probably OK. If you're mostly eating donkey? Then, yeah, maybe.
Quote from: talksalot on January 29, 2013, 10:11:32 PM
OK, we've hammered out the backcourt... who starts in the 4/5 spots? Bobby? Chadwick? Yeo?
Even though Bryce, like Homer, would probably lean toward starting experienced players rather than freshmen, by the time conference play begins, my speculation is that the starters would be Carter, Dority, Peters, Chadwick, Capobianco. At least, I hope Peters will be asked to play the 3 position. Yes, Peters is that good!
Of course, Coleman could develop due to his experience this year and Adekoya might be a strong challenger to Chadwick, who hasn't yet proven himself on the court in any real games. In any event, Adekoya will get a lot of minutes. Also, there are variables in place because of so many good freshmen shooters who could contribute a lot and compete to be the important sixth man—plus there is at least one spot left to fill (imagine the possibility of adding a high quality JC transfer!), Rossi's health is uncertain, and Bryce might decide to redshirt someone.
It should be fun to see how everything settles by January 2014. Rarely have I looked forward to a rebuilding year with such enthusiasm.
Mark this down for next year. I heard some rumors that Chadwick's medical history is not perfect. There is no rule that transfers have to reveal their full medical history. That is up to the school to find out before they agree to the transfer.
Just to clarify to crazy and completely unfounded rumors - 1. There is nothin wrong with Rossi's foot or feet and 2. There are certainly NO discipline issues whatsoever
Well that doesn't help any lol. Hopefully everything will be ok for him, if he is having any medical issues
Quote from: wittynamehere on January 30, 2013, 11:25:48 PM
Just to clarify to crazy and completely unfounded rumors - 1. There is nothin wrong with Rossi's foot or feet and 2. There are certainly NO discipline issues whatsoever
What you need to understand is that crazy and completely unfounded rumors are often our best and sometimes our only sources of information, and that it is not us who have chosen to be left in the dark.
It may be unfortunate that this is not a discipline or foot issue because those might be easier to resolve than what we may now suspect, but all of us wish Alex the very best in dealing with whatever this problem might be.
Paul Oren, @nwioren tweeted what's up with Rossi. Give a follow and find out.
Rossi belongs at Valpo... What could be better than having a coach who understands what he is going through. And a community that cares about the person first and the athlete second... Certainly wish him the best as he recovers.
It sure sounded like he will be back soon. Matt Kenney back to practice today as well. Get healthy and stay healthy for the stretch run!
So rossi will be back this year?
Quote from: Smj on February 04, 2013, 06:54:52 PM
Rossi belongs at Valpo... What could be better than having a coach who understands what he is going through. And a community that cares about the person first and the athlete second... Certainly wish him the best as he recovers.
Yes, Smj, you are exactly right. The explanation of Rossi's condition sounds similar to what Bryce went through when he had heart problems. Rossi could not have a better coach to understand his situation.
Can someone post what was said
He had a heart ablation procedure and should be cleared for practice soon, will play again this year.
Quote from: truth219 on February 04, 2013, 07:33:06 PM
Can someone post what was said
Oren reports Rossi had a heart ablation procedure done last month. My understanding is that if it was a catheter procedure, recovery time is very quick.
Well that's good, but at this point do you think he he will get any mins
I have Afib (atrial fibrillation) -- it's correctable by Radio Frequency Ablation (RFA). Note I say HAVE. I am asymptomatic right now, but once it surfaces you are always at risk. If ablation is what Rossi had, it takes many weeks to fully heal (yes, the incisions are tiny like an knee scope job, but it's the heart that needs more time). Ablation involves a catheter being passed up from the groin up and into the heart. The catheter punctures the wall between the ventricle and the atrium and a laser-like tip burns portions of the inner left atrium wall to correct erratic heart beats. I have gone through three such procedures in the last 5 years. The reason: Afib can recur (as it did in my case). The other element of this procedure, if this is what Rossi has undergone, is that he will be on blood thinners (warfarin) for at least 6 months after the procedure just in case there is a post-procedure issue. The primary concern is that Afib causes blood to pool in the atrium where there is a greater chance of clots forming and therefore stroke.
But he is young and the prognosis should be better for him. But don't expect him back in 2013 (i.e., if he was diagnosed with Afib). At 6 Months after my second ablation, I was biking 12-15 miles a day, so there is no reason to think his career is over. And exercise is not the causal factor in recurrence -- it just occurs (probably genetics more than anything).
According to Oren's tweet, Rossi WILL play again this year.
That's optimistic and IMO stupid (if it was Afib). Go for the med red shirt. He's lost most of the season already. He's lost his conditioning edge and will have to stress his heart to get back to game shape. Why risk it until he is 100% healthy and is off drugs.
I highly doubt they would risk his future, so maybe it's not the same as what you have expierenced.
Oren's tweet is too black and white. Look up ablation on the internet and you will see it is a treatment that is all about heart arrhythmia. Hank Gathers, Reggie Lewis come to mind. In all descriptions, Docs will not truly know whether they have been successful for months after the procedure. They are guessing -- although it's educated-- that they've zapped all the wild tissue contributing to the condition. They might also not have zapped a particular area hard enough and it regenerates in the matter of a couple of months. It is about wait and watch -- i.e., time.
But I share your feeling that they will not risk Rossi's health. I take more issue with the "he WILL play this season" prediction. This is unpredictable. I will predict, however, that if he has a clean slate by March or April he'll be given a green light to begin regular training and by June he'll be off the blood thinners.
Regardless, I wish Alex all the best.
Had the procedure done in Savannah three years ago. No problems. Feel great and to think I was born when Herbert Hoover was Pres. Ah,the miricles of modern medicine Good luck Rossi,you're young,resilient and in good hands. Go Valpo! :thumbsup:
Did you and Strom Thurmond ever go out and tee off together?
Nope! I'm originally a Jersey guy. Lived in both MD. and MA. most of my corporate life. Ran into "Jim Crow" when I was stationed at Fort Gordon,Ga. in the mid 50's. Separate drinkling fountains,restrooms, et.al. Hated Jim Crow and Strom too. Yet, I retired to the low country of SC 17 years ago. Our neighbors are basically from the NE and MW. An island of blue in a sea of red. About a dozen VU grads live here also. GO Valpo! Go Rossi! :thumbsup:
If he can get a medical red-shirt, I hope he goes that route. I'd rather that he contribute for another full season than risk an early return for the sake of a few games.
Good to hear that things should turn around for him. He could be a good addition to have a sharpshooter coming off the bench this year, or an older presence on a young team next year. He is a dead eye shooter, which we could use on occasion when everyone else is struggling from 3.
I stated that Rossi "WILL play this season" because when I asked the question of Bryce, he gave me an "Oh yeah" in a tone that made me feel silly for even asking the question once we learned he was about to be cleared. We (two reporters) had asked about Kenney and then I said "while we're on injuries, do you have a further update on Alex Rossi?" Up till this point the basketball staff had said very little about Rossi and I'll admit that I haven't asked much about it. Bryce perked up and was excitable when he talked about Rossi getting cleared. Walking out of the room, I felt the matter was very black and white.
Fascinating! Great to hear the details behind the (fairly clear) NWI Times reporting.
Reading the Post Tribune accounts vs. the Times, even this morning, it seemed like they _could_ be read differently. Or, may have just chosen different ways to say approximately the same thing.
The Post Tribune version
http://posttrib.suntimes.com/sports/18015136-556/valpo-men-back-in-national-spotlight-in-bracketbusters.html (http://posttrib.suntimes.com/sports/18015136-556/valpo-men-back-in-national-spotlight-in-bracketbusters.html)
Feb 4, 2013 Michael Osipoff
gives the Rossi news as follows:
Quote
Drew said Alex Rossi last week underwent "successful" cardiac ablation, a procedure to correct an abnormal heart rhythm, and should be cleared to return to practice later this week and play again this season. The sophomore guard who transferred from California hasn't played since the Crusaders' Dec. 22 win against Purdue Calumet. He has averaged 2.1 points in nine games, shooting 5-of-8 from 3-point range.
"He's one of our best shooters," Drew said. "If he's healthy, it's nice to have that option to put him in the game or not."
One could read that as "should be cleared to play again this season". Which is particularly interesting with Drew pointing out that, if healthy, it'd be nice to have the option to put him in... or not.
All told, the Post Tribune leaves me with a rather less certain impression than the Times.
But, that may have been unintentional!
If Rossi and Drew _do_ plan to have him play this year... presumably it's because they think the medical redshirt can't happen? Or, Rossi wants to be off campus before he'd have time to use it?
Or, they agree that the extra scoring punch might be key to making a good season really special? Or some combination?
This is sad news- best wishes to him.
However, the records show he played in 9 games this year. He would have to play in less than 20% of the total team games (45 games) to qualify for a medical redshirt. Hopefully, he will play as a junior next year, and senior the following.
Quote from: motowntitan on February 05, 2013, 04:34:27 PMHowever, the records show he played in 9 games this year. He would have to play in less than 20% of the total team games (45 games) to qualify for a medical redshirt.
I can never keep these rules straight.
But, wikipedia has got it as "Popularly known as a medical redshirt, a hardship waiver may be granted an athlete who appears in fewer than 30% of his or her team's competitions (with none coming after the midway point of the season), then suffers a season-ending injury."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redshirt_%28college_sports%29#Reasons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redshirt_%28college_sports%29#Reasons)
We'll play at least 32 games, so 30% is 9.6.
I think this is consistent with Oren's reporting, earlier. They seemed to pull him right at the boundary of where he could maintain eligibility for a medical redshirt.
I've heard through the grapevine that Rossi has made a great recovery from his procedure and actually wanted to play against UIC. He will be medically eligible to play against Cleveland State on Saturday.
That is awesome to hear, and I hope that he is given some minutes to acclimate himself to the team. I don't know if he played sparingly early on due to the health concerns, or if it was truly a depth thing, but we could use 4-5 minutes of pure shooting from time-to-time.
Sounds like pinch hitting in baseball.
It can't be easy to come in off the bench immediately dialed in to shoot. If he can so it, fantastic!
It didn't seem to bother him when he came in for a minute here or there early in the season. He seems to have a very smooth/natural shot
This is good news. Welcome back and good luck to Rossi!
I'm still a little skeptical about this time table, but if he is, indeed, (a) fully recovered from the procedure and (b) the condition is completely corrected, then I'm glad to see him back. He has such a classically smooth rhythm to his shot and he's pretty deadly accurate.
Quote from: humbleopinion on February 05, 2013, 09:32:38 AMIf he can get a medical red-shirt, I hope he goes that route. I'd rather that he contribute for another full season than risk an early return for the sake of a few games.
TOTALLY agree...have been banging that drum for a while now. Also posted what agibson posted somewhere else a while ago. The next time he steps on the floor he will be past the point in the season for a med-shirt.
Plus when you couple that with a serious health issue, I'm no doctor, let alone his, but I'd feel better about him taking the next 6 months.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on February 09, 2013, 06:35:39 AMQuote from: humbleopinion on February 05, 2013, 09:32:38 AMIf he can get a medical red-shirt, I hope he goes that route. I'd rather that he contribute for another full season than risk an early return for the sake of a few games.
TOTALLY agree...have been banging that drum for a while now. Also posted what agibson posted somewhere else a while ago. The next time he steps on the floor he will be past the point in the season for a med-shirt. Plus when you couple that with a serious health issue, I'm no doctor, let alone his, but I'd feel better about him taking the next 6 months.
From what I hear nothing, and I mean nothing, except Bryce, will keep Rossi from playing today. He wants to start hitting threes when they jump off the bus.
So I guess there's always "except Bryce"???
Was he dressed on Saturday? Did he participate in shoot-around? I didn't get a look at him. Or maybe he's always been dressed/in warmups and looked more or less ready to play?
Quote from: agibson on February 11, 2013, 04:16:15 PMWas he dressed on Saturday? Did he participate in shoot-around? I didn't get a look at him. Or maybe he's always been dressed/in warmups and looked more or less ready to play?
Hasn't been dressed in a while, always in the black sweatsuit.
So by now people close to the program must know more about Rossi's situation and health. If he is healthy he could really be a difference maker next year. So, let the updates begin!!
Pretty sure what I have heard is that this is going to be a Kurth situation. We will most likely not see him play here at Valpo again, unfortunately. This may be false info, but just relaying what I've heard.
That is unfortunate. I am sure that he will take full advantage of his education, and do well elsewhere in life!
Any new information about Rossi? I wish him good health and would love to see him play. However, if Rossi will not be playing, as some are reporting, and a transfer is recruited to take his spot on the roster, that announcement should come this next week since the new players will be on campus to begin second semester summer school on July 1. Otherwise, he remains on the roster as a non-playing member, and we basically forfeit one roster spot.
I've said it before... He has the best looking shot - pure shooters form. Would love to see him play - but if not he seems like a great kid to have as part of the team.
He won't be playing.
Odd development: Oren is reporting on Twitter that Rossi will play basketball after all ... at Illinois Wesleyan:
"Well this is interesting...Former Valpo basketball player Alex Rossi lands at Illinois Wesleyan and will play for the Titans."
Good for him. Hopefully he can end his career with a solid season at that level
Quote from: valpopal on August 28, 2013, 09:10:51 AM
Odd development: Oren is reporting on Twitter that Rossi will play basketball after all ... at Illinois Wesleyan:
"Well this is interesting...Former Valpo basketball player Alex Rossi lands at Illinois Wesleyan and will play for the Titans."
Interesting. Was his medical reasons for leaving Valpo ever released? Hopefully, he found some medical care that will allow his playing of college basketball. Wish him well. Verbal Commits has some tweets as well:
http://verbalcommits.com/players/alex-rossi (http://verbalcommits.com/players/alex-rossi)
IWU is Division III, so he shouldn't have to sit out a year. From wiki, IWU has a substantial endowment for a Div III school with only 2000 students.
Here's how Rossi was presented in Bloomington, Ill., home of Illinois Wesleyan:
http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/basketball/men/titan-basketball-team-lands-former-division-i-player/article_f8383430-0f99-11e3-bb6f-001a4bcf887a.html (http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/basketball/men/titan-basketball-team-lands-former-division-i-player/article_f8383430-0f99-11e3-bb6f-001a4bcf887a.html)
Just a shame that Alex didn't get the chance to show what he could do for VU.
Maybe his medical issues won't be as much of a problem at the slower-moving D-3 level? It says heart and hernia issues, so maybe because it is not as fast paced, he can play limited spurts at that level without issues.
IWU is a very solid D3 program coached by Ron Rose. Rose actually began his career at Valpo in 1984. I think he was on the inaugural ARC team. We were young and very bad. He bolted for IWU after one semester.
Quote from: IndyValpo on September 03, 2013, 09:06:15 AM
IWU is a very solid D3 program coached by Ron Rose. Rose actually began his career at Valpo in 1984. I think he was on the inaugural ARC team. We were young and very bad. He bolted for IWU after one semester.
I don't recall Ron Rose from that team. However, the Valpo All-Time Roster confirms that Ron Rose was on that team. I think he was a walk-on, as the highly touted incoming freshman included Jeff Rekeweg (lasted one season under Smith), Curtis Rias (also one season), Jerome Battle (three seasons), Larry Dougherty (one season) and Harry Bell (played all four years). Paul Bayne and Brett Hughes were transfers that were eligible that season after sitting out the previous year. This recruiting class was supposed to lead to better things for Smith and VU. I guess the better for VU would be getting Homer in '88!
Looking forward to watching Rossi this year because my local college plays IWU....