The Valparaiso Beacons Fan Zone Forum

General Sports => Sports Talk => Topic started by: setshot on December 15, 2012, 03:46:42 PM

Title: BUTLER
Post by: setshot on December 15, 2012, 03:46:42 PM
Hell of a game. Butler beating IU,Wow! I'm sure glad we don't play the dogs this year as IMO they'd eat us alive . Better coached and superior players. Next year? ???
Title: Re: BUTLER
Post by: KL31NY on December 15, 2012, 03:49:39 PM
That was such a thrilling game. Don't necessarily like seeing Butler win, but if it means No. 1 Indiana losing, I'm all for it!
Title: Re: BUTLER
Post by: wh on December 15, 2012, 03:51:07 PM
Congratulations to the Butler players and coaches.  That was an amazing performance!
Title: Re: BUTLER
Post by: crusaderjoe on December 15, 2012, 04:11:12 PM
Butler may have just solidified their place as the only non Catholic school in the new Catholic conference.  One hell of a job by those guys this afternoon.
Title: Re: BUTLER
Post by: justducky on December 15, 2012, 04:27:53 PM
Just shows how you can take a good team that brings most everbody back then fill in a missing piece or two (Clarke and the freshman) and with great and I mean great coaching turn them from pumkins into princesses. For decades I was a hard core Hoosier follower and could have cared less about Butler, but today there wasn't an instant where I was hoping for an IU run. Great game-great job
Title: Re: BUTLER
Post by: zvillehaze on December 15, 2012, 04:32:20 PM
I appreciate the kind comments, especially from wh.  ;)  But can someone please move this to the "Sports Talk" section before historyman shows up?  Thank you.
Title: Re: BUTLER
Post by: VULB#62 on December 15, 2012, 04:46:08 PM
Yeah, but who else have they beaten?

Oh, that's right, Marquette, North Carolina and Northwestern so far -- plus Indiana. 

Gotta admit that they are worthy of the hype they get.

Crusaderjoe:  Re: "God's Conference" undergrad enrollments (with Butler included):

Butler          4034
Providence   4769
Seton Hall    5200
Villanova      6293
Marquette     8293
St. Johns     15,720
Georgetown  17,130
DePaul        25, 398

Title: Re: BUTLER
Post by: LaPorteAveApostle on December 15, 2012, 07:18:02 PM
Butler in "God's Conference"??

Oh well, even the Garden of Eden had a snake...
Title: Re: BUTLER
Post by: atkins on December 15, 2012, 09:58:55 PM
I think Stevens could teach Bryce a few things about coaching.  Hopefully, in a few years, Valpo will be able to win big games like Stevens' teams do.  Somehow, Butler beats teams that would destroy us by at least 30.  I hate to say it, but I think if Valpo played IU, the mercy rule would have to intervene. 
Title: Re: BUTLER
Post by: historyman on December 15, 2012, 10:20:56 PM
Quote from: zvillehaze on December 15, 2012, 04:32:20 PMI appreciate the kind comments, especially from wh.    But can someone please move this to the "Sports Talk" section before historyman shows up?  Thank you.



(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQoYV5qlARBBU48qlOOSh1E3kqkrWTbeevwrzeTtjX2k6l4lLv_Zg)
Title: Re: BUTLER
Post by: milanmiracle on December 15, 2012, 11:08:28 PM
Quote from: justducky on December 15, 2012, 04:27:53 PM
Just shows how you can take a good team that brings most everbody back then fill in a missing piece or two (Clarke and the freshman) and with great and I mean great coaching turn them from pumkins into princesses. For decades I was a hard core Hoosier follower and could have cared less about Butler, but today there wasn't an instant where I was hoping for an IU run. Great game-great job

Hey, we agree on something...man what a great game to watch! I also agree with your coaching assessment. Let's not forget they kicked off their projected starting point guard right before the season began. Scary when you think about how good Brad Stevens really is...
Title: Re: BUTLER
Post by: usc4valpo on December 16, 2012, 08:48:16 AM
Wow, these guys continue to shock the college hoops world.  Love them or hate them, they get it done.  On a national perspective, Brad Stevens does not get the credit he deserves.  He has to be rated the best coach in America based on what he has done with the resources he has had.  They do not have the cash and talent that Indiana and Duke and Kentucky have.
Title: Re: BUTLER
Post by: valpo64 on December 16, 2012, 03:24:15 PM
Stevens a much better coach than Bryce?  Well I hope so, how long have they each been coaching?  A most unfair comparison to say the least.
Title: Re: BUTLER
Post by: EddieCabot on December 16, 2012, 05:51:51 PM
Quote from: valpo64 on December 16, 2012, 03:24:15 PM
Stevens a much better coach than Bryce?  Well I hope so, how long have they each been coaching?  A most unfair comparison to say the least.

Good point.  Despite being two years older than Stevens, Bryce entered coaching 5 years after Stevens did due to his NBA career.  He's also just in his 2nd season as a head coach, while Stevens is in his 6th.  It would be much fairer to compare what Bryce did last year and is doing this year to what Stevens accomplished his first two seasons.  Remember, Stevens didn't get Butler to the National Championship game until his third and fourth seasons.
Title: Re: BUTLER
Post by: bbtds on December 16, 2012, 06:17:38 PM
Quote from: EddieCabot on December 16, 2012, 05:51:51 PM
Quote from: valpo64 on December 16, 2012, 03:24:15 PM
Stevens a much better coach than Bryce?  Well I hope so, how long have they each been coaching?  A most unfair comparison to say the least.

Good point.  Despite being two years older than Stevens, Bryce entered coaching 5 years after Stevens did due to his NBA career.  He's also just in his 2nd season as a head coach, while Stevens is in his 6th.  It would be much fairer to compare what Bryce did last year and is doing this year to what Stevens accomplished his first two seasons.  Remember, Stevens didn't get Butler to the National Championship game until his third and fourth seasons.

So you believe that once Bryce gets his 5 years more coaching experience then Valpo will be playing in the national championship game twice (2018 & 2019) and beating the #1 team in the country (2020)? You really believe that?
Title: Re: BUTLER
Post by: wh on December 16, 2012, 08:31:06 PM
Quote from: bbtds on December 16, 2012, 06:17:38 PM
Quote from: EddieCabot on December 16, 2012, 05:51:51 PM
Quote from: valpo64 on December 16, 2012, 03:24:15 PM
Stevens a much better coach than Bryce?  Well I hope so, how long have they each been coaching?  A most unfair comparison to say the least.

Good point.  Despite being two years older than Stevens, Bryce entered coaching 5 years after Stevens did due to his NBA career.  He's also just in his 2nd season as a head coach, while Stevens is in his 6th.  It would be much fairer to compare what Bryce did last year and is doing this year to what Stevens accomplished his first two seasons.  Remember, Stevens didn't get Butler to the National Championship game until his third and fourth seasons.

So you believe that once Bryce gets his 5 years more coaching experience then Valpo will be playing in the national championship game twice (2018 & 2019) and beating the #1 team in the country (2020)? You really believe that?


I hope this doesn't burst anyone's bubble, but no Mid Major will ever play in the National Championship game again in our life times, including Butler.  No sense in even thinking about it.
Title: Re: BUTLER
Post by: StlVUFan on December 16, 2012, 09:03:57 PM
wh, the only way your prophesy carries any weight with me is if the NCAA tournament is hijacked by the power conference teams so that mid-majors are excluded from the tournament, as I keep hearing NBA fan columnists dream about once a year.

Unless I'm failing to read the tea leaves of this new Catholic conference and all the other crap that's happening at the top of the pyramid, I will continue to believe that a mid-major making it to the national championship game will continue to be just as probable as it always has been: scant, yes; nil, no.
Title: Re: BUTLER
Post by: HC on December 16, 2012, 09:26:02 PM
http://cbbpps.wordpress.com/2012/12/16/indiana-vs-butler-1-falls/ (http://cbbpps.wordpress.com/2012/12/16/indiana-vs-butler-1-falls/)
Title: Re: BUTLER
Post by: LaPorteAveApostle on December 17, 2012, 09:02:03 AM
Quote from: atkins on December 15, 2012, 09:58:55 PMI think Stevens could teach Bryce a few things about coaching.

Gosh, I hope that Bryce was paying attention the first three times they crossed paths, then.
Title: Re: BUTLER
Post by: wh on December 17, 2012, 02:42:28 PM
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on December 17, 2012, 09:02:03 AM
Quote from: atkins on December 15, 2012, 09:58:55 PMI think Stevens could teach Bryce a few things about coaching.

Gosh, I hope that Bryce was paying attention the first three times they crossed paths, then.

Surgical precision... :)
Title: Re: BUTLER
Post by: valpo95 on December 17, 2012, 03:00:13 PM
Quote from: wh on December 17, 2012, 02:42:28 PM
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on December 17, 2012, 09:02:03 AM
Quote from: atkins on December 15, 2012, 09:58:55 PMI think Stevens could teach Bryce a few things about coaching.

Gosh, I hope that Bryce was paying attention the first three times they crossed paths, then.

Surgical precision... :)


Ouch, that is certain to leave a mark.
Title: Re: BUTLER
Post by: LaPorteAveApostle on December 17, 2012, 03:13:38 PM
...a three-and-oh mark ;)
Title: Re: BUTLER
Post by: setshot on December 18, 2012, 10:12:11 AM
BUTLER is now ranked 19/25 in the two major polls and #25 by Sagarin. Valpo? Sagarin has us ranked #111. We don't deserve to be ranked this highly! >:(
Title: Re: BUTLER
Post by: milanmiracle on December 18, 2012, 02:46:31 PM
Quote from: wh on December 16, 2012, 08:31:06 PM
Quote from: bbtds on December 16, 2012, 06:17:38 PM
Quote from: EddieCabot on December 16, 2012, 05:51:51 PM
Quote from: valpo64 on December 16, 2012, 03:24:15 PM
Stevens a much better coach than Bryce?  Well I hope so, how long have they each been coaching?  A most unfair comparison to say the least.

Good point.  Despite being two years older than Stevens, Bryce entered coaching 5 years after Stevens did due to his NBA career.  He's also just in his 2nd season as a head coach, while Stevens is in his 6th.  It would be much fairer to compare what Bryce did last year and is doing this year to what Stevens accomplished his first two seasons.  Remember, Stevens didn't get Butler to the National Championship game until his third and fourth seasons.

So you believe that once Bryce gets his 5 years more coaching experience then Valpo will be playing in the national championship game twice (2018 & 2019) and beating the #1 team in the country (2020)? You really believe that?


I hope this doesn't burst anyone's bubble, but no Mid Major will ever play in the National Championship game again in our life times, including Butler.  No sense in even thinking about it.

A whole lot of that statement will revolve around the status of the NCAA tournament. With conference realignment, there might not be an NCAA tournament anymore. I know it sound crazy now, but if the BCS schools have all the money and all the influence, why do they need the NCAA? If things mostly stay the same, it's very likely a Mid Major will not only get to the National Championship game, but somebody's going to win the whole thing! I'll take that bet. Butler, George Mason, VCU, the list keeps growing. You keep letting them knock on the door, eventually somebody's going to come in.
Title: Re: BUTLER
Post by: StlVUFan on December 18, 2012, 09:44:00 PM
Quote from: setshot on December 18, 2012, 10:12:11 AM
BUTLER is now ranked 19/25 in the two major polls and #25 by Sagarin. Valpo? Sagarin has us ranked #111. We don't deserve to be ranked this highly! >:(
Sagarin is a mathematical formula, not a poll.  We deserved to be "ranked" exactly there because that's what the formula says.
Title: Re: BUTLER
Post by: vu72 on December 19, 2012, 06:58:42 PM
Quote from: atkins on December 15, 2012, 09:58:55 PM
I think Stevens could teach Bryce a few things about coaching.  Hopefully, in a few years, Valpo will be able to win big games like Stevens' teams do.  Somehow, Butler beats teams that would destroy us by at least 30.  I hate to say it, but I think if Valpo played IU, the mercy rule would have to intervene. 

So Bryce, in his FIRST year, after beating Stevens three straight times and being named Coach of the Year, will learn things from Stevens? He took a team predicted to be fourth or fifth to a two games lead and the Conference regular season title.

Somehow if had beaten Nebraska, St. Louis and New Mexico this guy would be saying "yeah, but nothing compared to who Butler beat".  Look, Butler is playing great team basketball no doubt. My hats off to them.  Just don't write off the Crusaders like the Butler fans did after getting beat up by Xavier.  BTW, they were also significantly questioning Brad's coaching and in particular his recruiting "failures."
Title: Re: BUTLER
Post by: zvillehaze on December 19, 2012, 09:07:07 PM

I agree with vu72 ... Bryce seems like he's doing just fine and is a good fit for Valpo. 
Title: Happy New Year!
Post by: EddieCabot on January 01, 2013, 11:14:05 AM

Off topic, but thought I'd just tack on here instead of starting a new thread.  A friend shared some tweets from Valpo beat writer / professor Paul Oren ... looks like he was enjoying his New Year's Eve celebration last night.

Paul Oren ‏@NWIOren
As you celebrate your new year, remember its been 730 days since @ValpoBasketball lost to Butler. #domination

Paul Oren ‏@pauloren
Happy New Year. If you didn't catch it on @NWIOren, it's been 730 days since Butler beat Valpo. @iameb15 @BigBobCapo @rbroekhoff45

FWIW, I understand why Paul is so proud of those wins over Butler as it was quite an accomplishment for Valpo and needs to be mentioned more often.  Hats off to Valpo, because they really came to play in those matchups. 

Disappointng that they don't play this year, but it's a win-win of sorts as Valpo is having a great year as the Horizon League favorite and Butler's been able to recover from the Valpo domination and seems to have avoided the fall to irrelevancy and mediocrity predicted by many on this board.  As someone who follows both teams, it's nice to see them doing so well.  For those hoping for a Valpo - Butler game this year, maybe we'll see one come March!

Happy New Year to all and best of luck in 2013!
Title: Re: BUTLER
Post by: vuweathernerd on January 02, 2013, 09:55:40 AM
i wouldn't mind giving the seniors one last shot at butler before they graduate. with the improved chemistry as the season has gone on, i think it'd be a very good game, regardless of where they'd play.
Title: Re: BUTLER
Post by: HC on January 06, 2013, 11:47:25 AM
http://cbbpps.wordpress.com/2013/01/06/butler-bulldogs-are-they-for-real/ (http://cbbpps.wordpress.com/2013/01/06/butler-bulldogs-are-they-for-real/)

Butler doesn't have the star power (Clarke isn't a star IMO), but they don't hurt themselves and they play great defense.  Are they a top 20 team? 
Title: Re: BUTLER
Post by: EddieCabot on January 06, 2013, 05:45:29 PM
Quote from: HC on January 06, 2013, 11:47:25 AM
http://cbbpps.wordpress.com/2013/01/06/butler-bulldogs-are-they-for-real/ (http://cbbpps.wordpress.com/2013/01/06/butler-bulldogs-are-they-for-real/)

Butler doesn't have the star power (Clarke isn't a star IMO), but they don't hurt themselves and they play great defense.  Are they a top 20 team?

Interesting analysis ... can't wait to see what happens when Butler plays some "solid teams".
Title: Re: BUTLER
Post by: HorizonFan on January 06, 2013, 06:41:17 PM
Butler isn't a top 20 team, however, Valpo is!
Title: Re: BUTLER
Post by: valporun on January 06, 2013, 06:59:07 PM
Butler isn't exactly a top 20 team, I'll agree, but let's see how they do after a few weeks of conference play.
Title: Re: BUTLER
Post by: VULB#62 on January 08, 2013, 05:00:14 PM
Man, their OOC schedule is pretty brutal.  Now they have A-10 teams to contend with, but they haven't lost since November 21 to U of I in Maui.  They're doing something right.  Hard to believe it reasonably the same team we kicked around last year  Great example of melding new players with vets and not losing much in the transition.  I'm not aware of Stevens' coaching style.  Is he a disciplinarian, forceful and demanding, or is he a little more low key?  From a distance, I tend see Bryce as more of the latter and a "teacher" type rather than the authoritarian type.  There are good things to be said for both styles.  And then you have John Wooden who was, ironically, all of the above.
Title: Re: BUTLER
Post by: vu72 on January 31, 2013, 10:03:22 PM
Wow! Just watched St. Louis beat the dawgs like we did in the tourney last year, maybe worse. 21 tos and a 19? point win which was really worse than that.  They certainly do get peoples best shot and they got it tonight.  No disrespect intended, it might be similar to Duke getting drilled the other night.  They are beatable, but still a very good team.
Title: Re: BUTLER
Post by: StlVUFan on February 01, 2013, 01:40:45 AM
Quote from: vu72 on January 31, 2013, 10:03:22 PM
Wow! Just watched St. Louis beat the dawgs like we did in the tourney last year, maybe worse. 21 tos and a 19? point win which was really worse than that.  They certainly do get peoples best shot and they got it tonight.  No disrespect intended, it might be similar to Duke getting drilled the other night.  They are beatable, but still a very good team.
From my seat in section 102 across from the Butler bench, I saw SLU play very stifling defense, and Butler's point guards were not up to the task, more often than not.  I don't know if I've ever seen more of a lock-down defensive effort.

Khyle Marshall had a pass late in the 1st half that would have made Lubos Barton throw up: served it right on a silver platter for Jake Barnett.  I thought Stevens was going to plunge the fingers of one hand clean through the palm of his other hand calling the timeout.

Actually, SLU probably should have beat them by 40, considering all the layups they missed, but I was impressed at how they kept the pedal to the metal until garbage time (the last 3 minutes by my estimation).  Needless to say, Butler laid an egg tonight.  There were small stretches where Butler caught SLU napping, but the home team recovered fairly quickly.