http://sectionee.blogspot.com/2012/12/pps-preview-oakland.html (http://sectionee.blogspot.com/2012/12/pps-preview-oakland.html)
Another opportunity at another road win. Any win on the road is a good one. Lets get this one then two at home to end out the week.
It's all about the W's, baby. Just WIN...pretty win...ugly win...the record doesn't care...just win.
NWI Times game day story:
Crusaders have lineup options with added depth
http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/valparaiso-university/crusaders-have-lineup-options-with-added-depth/article_1fa6ea85-3c3f-56bf-b9f8-b1820fe7ae45.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/valparaiso-university/crusaders-have-lineup-options-with-added-depth/article_1fa6ea85-3c3f-56bf-b9f8-b1820fe7ae45.html)
Kampe video preview:
"Grizz Vision" with Greg Kampe 12/16/12 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpzU7ggaLbQ#ws)
Oakland Press game day story:
Oakland returns from break to host former conference rival Valparaiso
http://www.theoaklandpress.com/articles/2012/12/16/sports/grizzlies/doc50ce73b445ccb342586593.txt (http://www.theoaklandpress.com/articles/2012/12/16/sports/grizzlies/doc50ce73b445ccb342586593.txt)
Vary Winnable VU 72 OU 60 learning to win on the Road!!! :)
Early line Valpo by 3.5
The W over Mo State was not impressive...ORU beat these guys by 20. So, my prediction for Oakland is:
Valpo loses by 5...a thoroughly disappointing and baffling season continues....
Paul
Quote from: 78crusader on December 16, 2012, 09:49:28 PMa thoroughly disappointing and baffling season continues...
What exactly has been thoroughly disappointing and baffling? Our 7-3 record? Our one questionable loss to Nebraska? Or are you referring to the continued poor play by several of our guys who really weren't that great last year anyways?
I guess if I had to boil it down to two things, I would say, first, that a senior-laden team such as ours, which includes an All-American, usually plays better than the previous year, if for no other reason than there are seasoned players who have been around for several years and know what to expect, how to handle the pressure, how to play together, etc. This is not the case this year -- we look lost and tentative much of the time, with way too many turnovers and what I will simply call silly mistakes. I very much doubt we will match last year's 22-12 record. Second, I had hoped this year's squad, with all of the seniors, would finally be the team that would get a win or two against a BCS team. That did not happen either.
Paul
I will agree with some of what you're saying. Way too many turnovers, Kenney and Buggs are you listening? Matt, Ben, and Will have just been awful, which means they can only get better right? I look at this way, with as poorly as we've played at times this year we have a very respectable record and our guys are learning to win when they aren't at their best. Like in MLB when a pitcher doesn't have his best stuff and just has to survive. LVD brings this team into a whole new dimension with his apparent offensive capabilities. I think the fun is just about to start in Valpo.
Quote from: HC on December 16, 2012, 10:43:34 PM
I will agree with some of what you're saying. Way too many turnovers, Kenney and Buggs are you listening? Matt, Ben, and Will have just been awful, which means they can only get better right? I look at this way, with as poorly as we've played at times this year we have a very respectable record and our guys are learning to win when they aren't at their best. Like in MLB when a pitcher doesn't have his best stuff and just has to survive. LVD brings this team into a whole new dimension with his apparent offensive capabilities. I think the fun is just about to start in Valpo.
Possible, not probable.
Valpo wins by playing good defense. They don't win by improved ball handling or making more FT's.
Valpo 66
Oakland 60
Quote from: HC on December 16, 2012, 09:56:25 PM
Quote from: 78crusader on December 16, 2012, 09:49:28 PMa thoroughly disappointing and baffling season continues...
What exactly has been thoroughly disappointing and baffling? Our 7-3 record? Our one questionable loss to Nebraska? Or are you referring to the continued poor play by several of our guys who really weren't that great last year anyways?
Nice spin. If Nebraska was a "questionable loss", then Kent was certainly a "questionable win."
As for OU, now that the pieces appear to be in place, I just hope that if we get out to a lead that we maintain it, and if we have a chance to stomp on their neck and go for the kill at some point that we actually do it so game momentum has no chance of shifting. I didn't see this at Kent and didn't see this at Missouri State either. On the road we either curl up into a ball or offer no killer instinct when we're actually in a game which ultimately makes VU have to rely on the other team's weaknesses in order to win, IMO. This has got to change for League play.
Very winnable and understably favorites. But also a big trap for many reasons.
Thank god for Dorrity who gives me more confidence that we won't run dry for long spells or give up 5-6 turnovers in a row.
Oakland and Kampe get very jacked up to play Valpo. Long-timers know that the streak of OU losses to Valpo went on forever even though the games were often close. The O-rena is tiny and really rocks when games come down to the wire. I don't know the Oakland roster at all and the big guy there is gone so it seems we really should win this one.
But we need a "take charge" physical guy in games like this to get out in front and choke off the crowd. I think Van Vijk and his put backs are the key. He's been quiet lately in the box scores.
Valpo by 3.
RPIForecast puts spread at 3.3 (the .3 are probably one of Buggs' rimming free throws) with a 61% chance of victory; RealTimeRPI says VU 69-67 with a 54.1% chance. We'll see!
...
On a somewhat-related note, LVD (note to MSU color: does not stand for "Laverne"). If this is his junior year of eligibility, doesn't he effectively lose a whole year of playing time--as though the transfer never hit "pause" for a year?
Something about the "semester" deal confuses the issue. With Capo, for example, it's easy. He played 2 years (four semesters), sat out the 1, and has 2 yrs left.
Hear me out: LVD played 3 semesters at USF (fall 10, spring 11, fall 11) and if truly a junior, 3 at VU (spring 13, fall 13, spring 14). He would only get 6 semesters = 3 years of eligibility instead of 4. What gives?
If transferring mid-year meant that you lost that entire year, why would anyone do it, unless they were truly miserable? Basically you're getting to play at a different school a semester before you otherwise would, but you're sacrificing one whole year of eligibility to do so when you wouldn't if you just toughed out a few more months.
Basically, I'm saying I want him around for another year. Even truth219 couldn't disagree with that.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on December 17, 2012, 09:32:33 AM
Hear me out: LVD played 3 semesters at USF (fall 10, spring 11, fall 11) and if truly a junior, 3 at VU (spring 13, fall 13, spring 14). He would only get 6 semesters = 3 years of eligibility instead of 4. What gives?
If transferring mid-year meant that you lost that entire year, why would anyone do it, unless they were truly miserable? Basically you're getting to play at a different school a semester before you otherwise would, but you're sacrificing one whole year of eligibility to do so when you wouldn't if you just toughed out a few more months.
I see your point, but the NCAA allows a player four "seasons of competion". Except in the case of injury, a player uses a "season of competition" once they participate in a single game. In Dority's case, his four seasons will be '10-'11, '11-'12, '12-'13 and '13-'14.
You are correct on effectively losing a season's worth of games by transferring mid-year, but that's the way it works (same thing happened with Ben Boggs, if you recall). The only other option for these guys would be to sit out the entire season to have two full seasons left. Not an option with Dority, because he's obviously needed. But if you look back, there was some discussion of holding Boggs out last year so he would have two full seasons ('12-'13 and '13-'14) left.
Somehow I don't remember being as concerned last year ;)
thanks for the clarification.
I like dority. He is a talented player. He is more of a key player than a role player
Speaking of Dority: he was just named a Horizon League Newcomer of the Week. That didn't take long!
http://www.horizonleague.org/blog/uics-barnes-loyolas-turk-and-valpos-dority-pick-up-weekly-awards.html (http://www.horizonleague.org/blog/uics-barnes-loyolas-turk-and-valpos-dority-pick-up-weekly-awards.html)
Good to see us split the 2 games while on my cruise. It sounds like we are still sloppy at times, but I believe we pull this one out in the end.
Valpo 68
Oakland 59
I'm far from disappointed with the season at this time. About where I would have expected prior to the start of the season.
Valpo 72
Oak 65
Quote from: valpotx on December 17, 2012, 11:28:53 AM
Good to see us split the 2 games while on my cruise. It sounds like we are still sloppy at times, but I believe we pull this one out in the end.
Welcome back! Did you visit St. Thomas (wh's home away from home - and paradise on earth I might add ;))?
Let's drink a champagne toast to tradition after a VU victory.
The Champagne brothers, Dan and Jon, were forwards on early Oakland teams and Jon got into a pretty serious fight with us at the ARC one time. Dan was a much better player.
Didn't take too much to get those guys to pop their cork.
Quote from: wh on December 17, 2012, 02:33:14 PM
Quote from: valpotx on December 17, 2012, 11:28:53 AM
Good to see us split the 2 games while on my cruise. It sounds like we are still sloppy at times, but I believe we pull this one out in the end.
Welcome back! Did you visit St. Thomas (wh's home away from home - and paradise on earth I might add ;))?
I will do the Eastern Caribbean next time, as this one was Western (Cozumel, Grand Cayman, Jamaica (Falmouth), and Labadee (Royal Caribbean's private portion of Haiti)). Definitely a good respite from work, but I was sad to not have any real Internet/phone access to do live stats :)
Looking a little at Oakland's schedule. It's been pretty brutal. By RPI SOS the 60th most difficult in D1. Just one win, and a couple of bad losses. But, also blowing a big lead at Pitt. And tough competition elsewhere. This will be their first D1 game at home. And then they go back on the road for four more, including a couple more reasonably tough non-conference games.
I won't be surprised if we find a hungry Oakland team, and tough competition.
other than paying has anyone found a free site to watch this game?
vu72, I haven't found anything on firstrowsports, and the vipboxsports site is still down, according to Google Chrome. If you purchased from one of the earlier games in December, it is a CBS site, so you should be able to watch it with your current subscription?
It's up on firstrowsports: http://www.thefirstrow.eu/watch/159460/1/watch-valparaiso-vs-oakland.html (http://www.thefirstrow.eu/watch/159460/1/watch-valparaiso-vs-oakland.html)
Again, let's all be smart Internet users. Don't click on any ads or download anything. :thumbsup:
Anyone follow the technicals on Dority and now Buggs? What happened?
Nice to see Capo hitting it from three. He's been pretty high percentage from their during warm-ups, at times.
How can we have 13 turnovers in the first half? (I remember a football movie where a player was forced to carry a ball everywhere because he fumbled too much - looked for a clip from "The Program". Maybe our guys should do that for a while...)
How many of them were offensive fouls?
Oakland sure made the right adjustments at the half....
We're neck and neck. But, it's going to be close. Two technicals and an intentional foul...
I just wish that Todd Ickow would show a little emotion when calling the game. :lol:
I'm going to wait for about 2 days to post. >:(
Why do we insist on running clock, instead of running the offense? When we're up by as few as five? When we're up by _one_?
Conference play is what matters. And, obviously, Dority's still figuring out his role on the team. But, a tough one to lose.
Can not believe that just happened >:(
20 turnovers is not gonna cut it against anyone. Conference play can't come soon enough granted we get our act together....
http://youtu.be/xhrn5tredQM (http://youtu.be/xhrn5tredQM)
20 TO's against a mediocre Oakland team. I am not sure we are even the best team in the Horizon.
Quote from: vuchicago on December 17, 2012, 08:06:16 PM
Can not believe that just happened >:(
20 turnovers is not gonna cut it against anyone. Conference play can't come soon enough granted we get our act together....
BIG BIG
"IF!!!"This team has shown no sign of handling the ball better and shooting the three better (except maybe Capo hitting 2 threes). Those 2 issues are really turning what was a team with a ton of potential into a very mediocre team.
This team is troubled
Letting the FT shooter get that rebound when there is no other OU player down there is a freshman mistake
Quote from: govalpogo on December 17, 2012, 08:07:22 PM
http://youtu.be/xhrn5tredQM (http://youtu.be/xhrn5tredQM)
Yes, my sentiments exactly. Someone email Bryce and ask why we do the slowdown with 5-6 minutes left and a lead of 4-8, and especially with a 1 point lead. Teams that are looking for an upset do that crap, not teams favored to win. When we run our normal offense there is usually about 8-10 seconds left anyways, so why the f&*$ do you mess with what is working?? >:(
Tough loss to Oakland by 2 points, the same result as exactly one year ago on 12/17/11 when Valpo lost to Oakland by 2 points. Also, Valpo is now 7-4, which is what they were after that Oakland game last year as well. In addition, the comments on the board seem to repeat what were written at that time. Still looking forward to the team gaining momentum as they did last year when conference play began.
Hey, if we beat Murray State on the road, then we still come out at the predicted 10-4. I highly doubt it since they are almost ranked, but maybe we pull one out of our butts :thumbsup:
Not too thrilled about the officiating tonight, but nonetheless...
Ho hum, here we go again. Another patented VU lull with a lead on the road as a result of the lack of the cultivation of a killer instinct that is required to manage game momentum and put teams away.
We escaped at Kent and Missouri State. Not tonight.
But hey, we're 7-4.
agibson, the tech on Dority may have been for taunting after a dunk. The one on Buggs was for slapping the basketball after the Oakland player threw the elbow his way. What really didn't make any sense was how the Oakland player commits the offensive foul, Buggs gets the tech, and Oakland gets the ball back after the tech free throws? It also resulted in two points. It was the difference in the halftime score, should have been tied at 32.
Quote from: valpopal on December 17, 2012, 08:16:20 PM
Tough loss to Oakland by 2 points, the same result as exactly one year ago on 12/17/11 when Valpo lost to Oakland by 2 points. Also, Valpo is now 7-4, which is what they were after that Oakland game last year as well. In addition, the comments on the board seem to repeat what were written at that time. Still looking forward to the team gaining momentum as they did last year when conference play began.
So, everything is exactly the same as last year...does that mean Valpo doesn't make the tournament again too?
Argggggghhhh!
Terrible night for the Horizon in almost identical scores.
I think Detroit needed one win against St Johns, Miami, Pitt, or Cuse. We still have Temple. However, I thought a 2 bid league was possible. It still may be, but that means UIC would have to run the table and have another team knock them off in the Championship game.
Quote from: valpopal on December 17, 2012, 08:16:20 PMStill looking forward to the team gaining momentum as they did last year when conference play began.
I still say big "if." Not a given.
Quote from: valporun on December 17, 2012, 08:19:54 PM
agibson, the tech on Dority may have been for taunting after a dunk. The one on Buggs was for slapping the basketball after the Oakland player threw the elbow his way. What really didn't make any sense was how the Oakland player commits the offensive foul, Buggs gets the tech, and Oakland gets the ball back after the tech free throws? It also resulted in two points. It was the difference in the halftime score, should have been tied at 32.
If it happened this way, did Bryce contest that they were given the ball? I only saw the last few minutes of the first half to the end. If he did not contest, this would be two really bad errors by Bryce in the game, with the other obviously going to a slowdown when we were up by 9 with 4:50 left. Play your normal offense until the end of the game in this scenario, as we always take time off the clock regardless of milking it. Only if you get up by 15+ should you run a slowdown to not rub it in, or if you are the underdog and have a 8-10 pt lead...
Quote from: valpotx on December 17, 2012, 08:18:50 PM
Hey, if we beat Murray State on the road, then we still come out at the predicted 10-4. I highly doubt it since they are almost ranked, but maybe we pull one out of our butts :thumbsup:
Since Murray State is what most would consider a good team, Valpo won't win. When you look at the combined record of Valpo's "wins", their record is 15-50 (D1 only). What Valpo has shown so far this year is the ability to schedule and beat craptastic teams. Anybody with talent and a reasonable record is a loss.
This was an epic collapse and it was sickening to watch. But how about this stat?
After Ryan Bass fouled out with 6:45 remaining, Oakland was not called for a foul the rest of the game.
Anyone understand the Boggs intentional either?
So does Bryce make switches in the starting lineup?
No offense to Coach Drew or the players, but as I've said previously, this team just_isn't_ that_good. We have some good players, yes. But they don't play well as a team. Sometimes the whole is not equal to the sum of its parts. It happens.
A 17-15 season awaits...perhaps even 16-16...followed by a quick exit in the league tourney.
Paul
Epic choke by VU. Up 9 with five minutes left, fail to score again and lose? Against a team that came in 3-7? Pitiful.
It's looking pretty clear that this team not only failed to improve during the offseason, but actually regressed. Obviously, we are only about a third of the way through the season, so there's plenty of time for VU to put things together, but I don't have a lot of confidence in the Crusaders' ability to do so, based on what they've shown me so far. As has been the case so often in the last 15 years, the Crusaders failed to put away a game when it was completely in their grasp. This team in recent years has had a maddening inability to hold onto a lead. Two words: mental toughness. VU doesn't have it and hasn't had it in a long, long time.
There is something very wrong with this team. We've seen the same mistakes over and over again, year after year. Different players, same mistakes. At some point in time you have to look at the coaching and wonder what exactly is going on.
Quote from: 78crusader on December 17, 2012, 09:28:27 PM
No offense to Coach Drew or the players, but as I've said previously, this team just_isn't_ that_good. We have some good players, yes. But they don't play well as a team. Sometimes the whole is not equal to the sum of its parts. It happens.
A 17-15 season awaits...perhaps even 16-16...followed by a quick exit in the league tourney.
Paul
Oh, I won't go that far. The Horizon League is pretty weak overall, and Valpo wouldn't have to beat anybody any good to get to a 20 win season. That doesn't mean they're getting better, just playing teams that are on the same level as they are.
Quote from: milanmiracle on December 17, 2012, 10:07:38 PMOh, I won't go that far. The Horizon League is pretty weak overall, and Valpo wouldn't have to beat anybody any good to get to a 20 win season. That doesn't mean they're getting better, just playing teams that are on the same level as they are.
So in the end the Butler fans were correct. They were the quality of the Horizon League before they left. The Bulldogs don't choke when they play against top teams, they have the better coach and a team that plays well together. Valpo does not have any one of the three mentioned. Without Butler the Horizon is a very average to poor league. Anybody else want to finally agree to the stark reality Valpo fans face? It's not too easy to swallow and the truth does hurt. We are what we are.
Go ahead, vu72. I know you will make the argument that Valpo is not as average as the reality proves them to be. How can Valpo fans face these outcomes, especially this loss to a mediocre Oakland team, thinking they will win the conference and even if they do not be a one and done in the NCAA tournament?
I don't like playing Oakland. Lot of heartbreak recently...
Quote from: milanmiracle on December 17, 2012, 08:25:34 PM
Quote from: valpopal on December 17, 2012, 08:16:20 PM
Tough loss to Oakland by 2 points, the same result as exactly one year ago on 12/17/11 when Valpo lost to Oakland by 2 points. Also, Valpo is now 7-4, which is what they were after that Oakland game last year as well. In addition, the comments on the board seem to repeat what were written at that time. Still looking forward to the team gaining momentum as they did last year when conference play began.
So, everything is exactly the same as last year...does that mean Valpo doesn't make the tournament again too?
If the team does everything it did last season and gets to the conference tournament championship, though healthy this time and with a legitimate chance to reverse last year's result, I'll be satisfied.
Quote from: valpopal on December 17, 2012, 10:36:46 PM
Quote from: milanmiracle on December 17, 2012, 08:25:34 PM
Quote from: valpopal on December 17, 2012, 08:16:20 PM
Tough loss to Oakland by 2 points, the same result as exactly one year ago on 12/17/11 when Valpo lost to Oakland by 2 points. Also, Valpo is now 7-4, which is what they were after that Oakland game last year as well. In addition, the comments on the board seem to repeat what were written at that time. Still looking forward to the team gaining momentum as they did last year when conference play began.
So, everything is exactly the same as last year...does that mean Valpo doesn't make the tournament again too?
If the team does everything it did last season and gets to the conference tournament championship, though healthy this time and with a legitimate chance to reverse last year's result, I'll be satisfied.
That's a good perspective. As I've said before, Bryce rolled the dice for an at-large bid with a brutal non-conference schedule. He knew it was a long shot to win on the road against tough teams like Nebraska, SLU and Oakland, but he was willing to take the shot. A favorable bounce here or there and Valpo would still be in the hunt for an at-large bid.
Things didn't work out, so Valpo merely needs to focus on league games to get a favorable seed for the tournament. That's now their route to the NCAA tourney.
Lost in all of this despair was maybe 10 minutes of our best basketball of the season, but then somebody woke us up and we returned to our normal level of play.
Lets see; silly fouls, mental mistakes, poor judgements, and poor executions lead to a 2 point loss instead of maybe an 10 point win. 19 turnovers by an experienced senior led team vs 9 for a young Oakland group. I rest my case.
Am I the only one that sees how bad the away refs are and that you hardly ever win on the road? The home town refs will make sure the home team wins and it was so obvious today. It seems everyone just accepts that this is how it is well I can tell you it does not happen here in Australia. We have neutral refs that don't favour the home teams and it makes for fair games. I don't know how many college games I have watched where the home refs are so bad. We were not that great but we were never going to win this game and the same against New Mexico, how many times did New Mexico go to the line? Yes we lost but you know what there are more important things going on in the world than losing a basketball game. Christmas is coming and God bless all the families that lost a child in the Sandy Hook Elementary School shootings. Yes we heard about it here and I can tell you all of Australia's hearts go out to everyone involved. So get a grip people and count your blessings that if all you have to whinge about is a game of basketball then be very thankful.
Not to make excuses but I think playing a game Saturday night 1,000 miles away in another time zone played a role in Monday nights loss.
Look good teams win on the road agaisnt sub par teams. Detroit lost to cuse by 4....we lost to oakland
I'm usually a bit of a cynic and did warn Oakland would be jacked up. All I saw was gamecast because WAKE-am link on the web played oldies. The choke was baffling because their best scorer fouled out at 6 minutes. With a 7-point lead and better rested players it should have been locked down.
But.....I did see some positives watching the states. 4 in double figures and Capo was a 9-9. He probably wore down because he was at those numbers early in 2nd half. If Boggs can step up like he did we have 5 options or at least 4 1/2. Kenney will get rolling at some point. Dorrity shot only 4-11 last I looked so once he blends in and gets in game shape, we have a big asset.
As some have said we have fewer bad losses this year to date. The missing piece is the good road win at Butler that showed our heart. I would take Capo and Dorrity over Harris and Edwards, so maybe we turn it up. Also Van Vijk got rolling too.
Quote from: koala on December 18, 2012, 04:52:47 AM
Am I the only one that sees how bad the away refs are and that you hardly ever win on the road? The home town refs will make sure the home team wins and it was so obvious today. It seems everyone just accepts that this is how it is well I can tell you it does not happen here in Australia. We have neutral refs that don't favour the home teams and it makes for fair games. I don't know how many college games I have watched where the home refs are so bad. We were not that great but we were never going to win this game and the same against New Mexico, how many times did New Mexico go to the line? Yes we lost but you know what there are more important things going on in the world than losing a basketball game. Christmas is coming and God bless all the families that lost a child in the Sandy Hook Elementary School shootings. Yes we heard about it here and I can tell you all of Australia's hearts go out to everyone involved. So get a grip people and count your blessings that if all you have to whinge about is a game of basketball then be very thankful.
Thank you, koala, for your commonsense view putting all in perspective, and also for saying something we were always taught as players not to mention (as Rowdy has also been taught), the officiating sometimes contributes to an outcome. Valpo shot well enough to win, at 51%, outscoring Oakland by 10 points in field goals. The game was lost on free throws and turnovers. Oakland had 15 more free throws, and as valpo89 mentioned, they didn't get called for a foul in almost the final seven minutes of the game. How does that happen, especiallly when a team is scratching to catch up? In addition, while Kevin had to sit much of the first half and fouled out in the second, Oakland's big guy was called for only one foul the whole game. How does someone guarding Kevin and Bobby only get called for one foul, while they get eight? Finally, a number of the turnovers were offensive foul calls that were questionable, as were some of the other calls of intentional or technical fouls, which changed the flow of the game.
I know we are never supposed to blame officiating, and we are supposed to expect it to be uneven on the road, which is one of the unfortunate subjective flaws in basketball, and we have it as an advantage at times on our home court. In addition, coaches repeat that can not be used as an excuse. However, it doesn't hurt to be objective and mention that it was a factor in this game that the team didn't quite overcome.
http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/valparaiso-university/crusaders-suffer-another-collapse-against-oakland/article_4f261506-b4be-58cc-b412-67854432b2f1.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/valparaiso-university/crusaders-suffer-another-collapse-against-oakland/article_4f261506-b4be-58cc-b412-67854432b2f1.html)
"I'm more worried about Ryan Broekhoff than anything right now," Drew said. "He's in some pain and has a lot of bruises and scratches. I'm more concerned with getting him healthy than anything else.
The Crusaders held a nine-point lead with less than five minutes remaining Monday night before the Grizzlies scored the final 11 points of the game to win 70-68 at the O'rena."
"There were a couple plays that we didn't execute," Valparaiso coach Bryce Drew said of the final five minutes. "Lavonte (Dority) hasn't been in a tight game with us and we're just getting that experience."
The Crusaders had a chance to get the ball back down one after a missed free throw with 9.1 seconds left, but Duke Mondy went one-on-four against the Valparaiso defense and came away with an offensive rebound.
773 miles. Plus they flew. They're 20-something years old. I think they can take it.
https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=oakland+university&safe=active&client=safari&ie=UTF-8 (https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=oakland+university&safe=active&client=safari&ie=UTF-8)
Say hello to a 4th place regular season finish in the league and a first round exit in the HL tourney.
This team is really, really bad.
I watch UDM lose to third ranked Syracuse by four. I watch Loyola beat Mississippi State. I watch YSU beat Georgia, and I watch this Valpo team trip over itself time and time again.
This is a really bad basketball team.
OK, I'll take the bait and be prepared to take the responses. We were awful last night, overall, but did manage a pretty terrific stretch in the second half to go up by 9, only to collapse in the end. The errors are really getting old and it starts with Erik, who has turned into a non-productive turnover prone liability.
We aren't playing as a team and the turnovers seem to tell me that they just don't know what to expect from their teammates. You'd think we brought in a whole new bunch when in fact Bobby practiced all last year and the only new guys playing or Jordan and now LaVonte.
Having said all that we still haven't lost at home and two of the four loses have been by a point or two. We're playing awful and still hanging in there on the road. Koala is right with the criticism of the refs. Whats with all the Technicals and intentionals? Is that some sort of new edict from the NCAA?
I am as disappointed as the next person but to predict a 17-17 season is pretty silly in my estimation. I fully expect the team to continue to grow together. If we can stay healthy and do that we will be fine. Let's see how the rest of the non-conference schedule and first two games of the conference goes before we throw in the towel...
I wasn't here last year, so could someone who was tell me the general mood on here? Were people excited at this point last year or was there a lot of whining then too?
In many ways, it seems the only difference between last year's team and this on is, ironically, us--and our expectations.
Quote from: crusadermoe on December 18, 2012, 07:00:41 AMThe choke was baffling because their best scorer fouled out at 6 minutes.
It was Bass that fouled out, not Bader. 7.5 ppg not 19.6. When the foul out happened I also was confused by the similar names, and breathing a sigh of relief. Alas, no.
Quote from: vuchicago on December 17, 2012, 09:12:34 PM
Anyone understand the Boggs intentional either?
So does Bryce make switches in the starting lineup?
On Boggs. I'm bad at understanding foul calls vs. non-calls, etc. But, that one looked sort of understandable to me, if I'm remembering the play correctly. It was some sort of an offensive rebound situation for them, with one of their bigs just in front of the basket surrounded by several of our players. It looked like someone, likely Boggs, just sort of wrapped their arms around him. It probably wasn't actually _that_ egregious, but it didn't look like a completely unwarranted call.
I do wonder if we failed to adjust to the officiating. Once it became clear how that was going to go, should we have been able to adjust and commit fewer fouls?
On the starting lineup. I wondered that ahead of the Oakland game. And interesting to see Bryce go with an alternate half-time lineup, for a second game in a row.
Dority's certainly playing a big role in these games. But, as Bryce alluded to in the newspaper quotes, is still finding his role.
Quote from: bbtds on December 18, 2012, 07:43:57 AM
http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/valparaiso-university/crusaders-suffer-another-collapse-against-oakland/article_4f261506-b4be-58cc-b412-67854432b2f1.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/valparaiso-university/crusaders-suffer-another-collapse-against-oakland/article_4f261506-b4be-58cc-b412-67854432b2f1.html)
"I'm more worried about Ryan Broekhoff than anything right now," Drew said. "He's in some pain and has a lot of bruises and scratches. I'm more concerned with getting him healthy than anything else.
The Crusaders held a nine-point lead with less than five minutes remaining Monday night before the Grizzlies scored the final 11 points of the game to win 70-68 at the O'rena."
"There were a couple plays that we didn't execute," Valparaiso coach Bryce Drew said of the final five minutes. "Lavonte (Dority) hasn't been in a tight game with us and we're just getting that experience."
The Crusaders had a chance to get the ball back down one after a missed free throw with 9.1 seconds left, but Duke Mondy went one-on-four against the Valparaiso defense and came away with an offensive rebound.
There's another quote in that article that I'm assuming relates in part to the offensive rebound mentioned above:
"That's something that we'll talk about," Drew said. "If you want to win on the road you have to move past the mental mistakes. This will be a learning experience from the last five minutes."I thought the late game teachable moment on mental mistakes would have already came and went when Valpo called a timeout they didn't have against Kent State in OT earlier this year, but I guess not.
Keep chest thumping...we're 7-4, right where we should be!
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on December 18, 2012, 09:17:10 AM
I wasn't here last year, so could someone who was tell me the general mood on here? Were people excited at this point last year or was there a lot of whining then too?
In many ways, it seems the only difference between last year's team and this on is, ironically, us--and our expectations.
Last year at this time maybe 25% of this group thought we might be able to reach a 2 seed double bye position. The vast majority had us as a 3 or a 4 seed including myself. WH might have been closest on the conference win-loss record (someone could check that) and at the extremes without even looking I'd wager that 72 was the most optimistic and Milan the most cynical (Setshot thought we could do pretty well in Div-II). ;) So our general expectations are much higher this year and should be.
Quote from: justducky on December 18, 2012, 12:38:38 PM
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on December 18, 2012, 09:17:10 AM
I wasn't here last year, so could someone who was tell me the general mood on here? Were people excited at this point last year or was there a lot of whining then too?
In many ways, it seems the only difference between last year's team and this on is, ironically, us--and our expectations.
Last year at this time maybe 25% of this group thought we might be able to reach a 2 seed double bye position. The vast majority had us as a 3 or a 4 seed including myself. WH might have been closest on the conference win-loss record (someone could check that) and at the extremes without even looking I'd wager that 72 was the most optimistic and Milan the most cynical (Setshot thought we could do pretty well in Div-II). ;) So our general expectations are much higher this year and should be.
Every December, the team goes through a bad stretch of not living up to expectations. Every December, the good folks on this message board need to be talked off a cliff.
So LaPorte, this is nothing new. Doesn't make it any easier though. It would be nice to finish off a winnable game.
Quote from: EddieCabot on December 17, 2012, 11:04:35 PM
Quote from: valpopal on December 17, 2012, 10:36:46 PM
Quote from: milanmiracle on December 17, 2012, 08:25:34 PM
Quote from: valpopal on December 17, 2012, 08:16:20 PM
Tough loss to Oakland by 2 points, the same result as exactly one year ago on 12/17/11 when Valpo lost to Oakland by 2 points. Also, Valpo is now 7-4, which is what they were after that Oakland game last year as well. In addition, the comments on the board seem to repeat what were written at that time. Still looking forward to the team gaining momentum as they did last year when conference play began.
So, everything is exactly the same as last year...does that mean Valpo doesn't make the tournament again too?
If the team does everything it did last season and gets to the conference tournament championship, though healthy this time and with a legitimate chance to reverse last year's result, I'll be satisfied.
That's a good perspective. As I've said before, Bryce rolled the dice for an at-large bid with a brutal non-conference schedule. He knew it was a long shot to win on the road against tough teams like Nebraska, SLU and Oakland, but he was willing to take the shot. A favorable bounce here or there and Valpo would still be in the hunt for an at-large bid.
Things didn't work out, so Valpo merely needs to focus on league games to get a favorable seed for the tournament. That's now their route to the NCAA tourney.
I'd hardly call it a brutal non conference schedule. They played 3 decent/good mid majors, and one very bad BCS team.
Nebraska
Kent State
St. Louis
New Mexico
Murray State
For comparison, let's look at Butler's out of conference schedule...
Xavier (not counted as a conference game)
Marquette
North Carolina
Illinois
Northwestern
Indiana
Vanderbilt
Or a little closer to home...Detroit...
St. John's
Miami(FL)
Bowling Green
Pittsburgh
Syracuse
Temple
Those are brutal schedules, NOT what Valpo played.
Quote from: justducky on December 18, 2012, 12:38:38 PM
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on December 18, 2012, 09:17:10 AM
I wasn't here last year, so could someone who was tell me the general mood on here? Were people excited at this point last year or was there a lot of whining then too?
In many ways, it seems the only difference between last year's team and this on is, ironically, us--and our expectations.
Last year at this time maybe 25% of this group thought we might be able to reach a 2 seed double bye position. The vast majority had us as a 3 or a 4 seed including myself. WH might have been closest on the conference win-loss record (someone could check that) and at the extremes without even looking I'd wager that 72 was the most optimistic and Milan the most cynical (Setshot thought we could do pretty well in Div-II). ;) So our general expectations are much higher this year and should be.
In fairness, I am generally the most cynical, with Setshot being over the top negative in most cases. However, I try to pick apart the teams strengths AND weaknesses when evaluating them.
I'll use Eric Buggs as an example. This is not meant to pick on Buggs, he just the most extreme example of good vs. bad traits. Some people see a very good defender (mostly true), I see a horrific shooter. What wins? Well, when you have to play 4 on 5 on offense, I tend to think the weakness outweighs the strength. As an opponent I would try to exploit that opportunity. Good teams do and sag off, eliminating penetration. It's awful hard to drive and kick to open shooters when your defender is standing on the foul line. Watch the St. Louis game, baiting him in to taking ill advised threes. On top of that, they can close out on the other three point shooters because they don't have to worry about helping off penetration. It also makes it very difficult to make an entry pass too, as many of the angles are taken away. If need be they can double off Buggs as help, no matter if you put Buggs on the weak or strong side on offense. That's how I tend to evaluate the team.
It's not just Buggs either, I can do the same thing for Ryan too. His greatest strength might also be his biggest weakness. He's a team player and doesn't take bad shots. Because he's a team player and doesn't take bad shots, he's reluctant to just take over, even if a good shot isn't there. You don't have to worry too much about him going all Kobe Bryant on somebody, because it's not the correct basketball play. That's both good and bad in some instances. There's a fine line between gunning away and taking over and influencing the momentum of the game. I'd like to see Ryan watch Rotnei Clarke and learn how to take some bad shots once in a while. Interestingly enough, I'd also have Rotnei Clarke watch Ryan for awhile and realize you don't have to shoot every time you are open.
In fairness, most people should have high expectations for a team returning almost everybody and the Horizon League POY. It's not looking good at this point, but having Dority could make a difference long term.
The biggest Question from last nights game is why was valpos least experienced player(Dority)handling the ball so much in the last five minutes of the game not your most Experienced All Conference Players (Broekhoff and VanVijk and Ben Boggs) also the best foul shooters? ???
Quote from: milanmiracle on December 18, 2012, 02:17:12 PM
Quote from: justducky on December 18, 2012, 12:38:38 PM
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on December 18, 2012, 09:17:10 AM
I wasn't here last year, so could someone who was tell me the general mood on here? Were people excited at this point last year or was there a lot of whining then too?
In many ways, it seems the only difference between last year's team and this on is, ironically, us--and our expectations.
Last year at this time maybe 25% of this group thought we might be able to reach a 2 seed double bye position. The vast majority had us as a 3 or a 4 seed including myself. WH might have been closest on the conference win-loss record (someone could check that) and at the extremes without even looking I'd wager that 72 was the most optimistic and Milan the most cynical (Setshot thought we could do pretty well in Div-II). ;) So our general expectations are much higher this year and should be.
In fairness, I am generally the most cynical, with Setshot being over the top negative in most cases. However, I try to pick apart the teams strengths AND weaknesses when evaluating them.
I'll use Eric Buggs as an example. This is not meant to pick on Buggs, he just the most extreme example of good vs. bad traits. Some people see a very good defender (mostly true), I see a horrific shooter. What wins? Well, when you have to play 4 on 5 on offense, I tend to think the weakness outweighs the strength. As an opponent I would try to exploit that opportunity. Good teams do and sag off, eliminating penetration. It's awful hard to drive and kick to open shooters when your defender is standing on the foul line. Watch the St. Louis game, baiting him in to taking ill advised threes. On top of that, they can close out on the other three point shooters because they don't have to worry about helping off penetration. It also makes it very difficult to make an entry pass too, as many of the angles are taken away. If need be they can double off Buggs as help, no matter if you put Buggs on the weak or strong side on offense. That's how I tend to evaluate the team.
It's not just Buggs either, I can do the same thing for Ryan too. His greatest strength might also be his biggest weakness. He's a team player and doesn't take bad shots. Because he's a team player and doesn't take bad shots, he's reluctant to just take over, even if a good shot isn't there. You don't have to worry too much about him going all Kobe Bryant on somebody, because it's not the correct basketball play. That's both good and bad in some instances. There's a fine line between gunning away and taking over and influencing the momentum of the game. I'd like to see Ryan watch Rotnei Clarke and learn how to take some bad shots once in a while. Interestingly enough, I'd also have Rotnei Clarke watch Ryan for awhile and realize you don't have to shoot every time you are open.
In fairness, most people should have high expectations for a team returning almost everybody and the Horizon League POY. It's not looking good at this point, but having Dority could make a difference long term.
If you look at it this way, then why wouldn't rossi get some mins. His shooting out weights whatever weaknesses has.
Quote from: truth219 on December 18, 2012, 03:26:17 PM
Quote from: milanmiracle on December 18, 2012, 02:17:12 PM
Quote from: justducky on December 18, 2012, 12:38:38 PM
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on December 18, 2012, 09:17:10 AM
I wasn't here last year, so could someone who was tell me the general mood on here? Were people excited at this point last year or was there a lot of whining then too?
In many ways, it seems the only difference between last year's team and this on is, ironically, us--and our expectations.
Last year at this time maybe 25% of this group thought we might be able to reach a 2 seed double bye position. The vast majority had us as a 3 or a 4 seed including myself. WH might have been closest on the conference win-loss record (someone could check that) and at the extremes without even looking I'd wager that 72 was the most optimistic and Milan the most cynical (Setshot thought we could do pretty well in Div-II). ;) So our general expectations are much higher this year and should be.
In fairness, I am generally the most cynical, with Setshot being over the top negative in most cases. However, I try to pick apart the teams strengths AND weaknesses when evaluating them.
I'll use Eric Buggs as an example. This is not meant to pick on Buggs, he just the most extreme example of good vs. bad traits. Some people see a very good defender (mostly true), I see a horrific shooter. What wins? Well, when you have to play 4 on 5 on offense, I tend to think the weakness outweighs the strength. As an opponent I would try to exploit that opportunity. Good teams do and sag off, eliminating penetration. It's awful hard to drive and kick to open shooters when your defender is standing on the foul line. Watch the St. Louis game, baiting him in to taking ill advised threes. On top of that, they can close out on the other three point shooters because they don't have to worry about helping off penetration. It also makes it very difficult to make an entry pass too, as many of the angles are taken away. If need be they can double off Buggs as help, no matter if you put Buggs on the weak or strong side on offense. That's how I tend to evaluate the team.
It's not just Buggs either, I can do the same thing for Ryan too. His greatest strength might also be his biggest weakness. He's a team player and doesn't take bad shots. Because he's a team player and doesn't take bad shots, he's reluctant to just take over, even if a good shot isn't there. You don't have to worry too much about him going all Kobe Bryant on somebody, because it's not the correct basketball play. That's both good and bad in some instances. There's a fine line between gunning away and taking over and influencing the momentum of the game. I'd like to see Ryan watch Rotnei Clarke and learn how to take some bad shots once in a while. Interestingly enough, I'd also have Rotnei Clarke watch Ryan for awhile and realize you don't have to shoot every time you are open.
In fairness, most people should have high expectations for a team returning almost everybody and the Horizon League POY. It's not looking good at this point, but having Dority could make a difference long term.
If you look at it this way, then why wouldn't rossi get some mins. His shooting out weights whatever weaknesses has.
Not necessarily. He might be a real liability of defense, and that could expose some others who are also a liability of defense. Can he create off the bounce? How does he rebound? How does he rotate in the zone, and can he read where to help? There are so many reason he could be on the bench, shooting is just one part of the game. Granted, it's very important part, but my guess is there is a whole lot more to the story.
Well played....but from what I've seen and I've seen every min he has played he didn't look any worse than anyone else.
Quote from: VUfan on December 18, 2012, 02:33:51 PM
The biggest Question from last nights game is why was valpos least experienced player(Dority)handling the ball so much in the last five minutes of the game not your most Experienced All Conference Players (Broekhoff and VanVijk and Ben Boggs) also the best foul shooters? ???
Of course, the officials didn't call a single foul on Oakland in the last five minutes and didn't seem inclined to do so no matter what, plus Dority
is one of the best foul shooters at above 90%.
Quote from: truth219 on December 18, 2012, 03:35:41 PMWell played....but from what I've seen and I've seen every min he has played he didn't look any worse than anyone else.
31 minutes isn't a very big sample size.
No it isn't but its big enough to know whether or not id like to see him play more. Last year after I saw hrvoje vucic play 31 mins, I had seen enough.
Hate to say this but I agree with miracle's most recent posts. :o The facts seems to point to a lack of leadership as well as stupid turnovers. If, and that is a huge if, we can somehow cut down to say, 12 per game (what did Oakland have?) we will win a lot of games. We lost by 2 and had how many? It seems to be that guys are trying to force stuff without need. Hopefully Bryce can right the ship.
VUFan, Dority
is also the team's best free throw shooter (91.7% for his college career). In fact, he'd never missed one before his first game here. (Although Ryan on the year is 93.3%; for his career, though, only 80.8%)
The ball was in his hands a lot vs. MSU and though it wasn't great end-of-game management either, he went 9-10 from the stripe for the night.
EDIT: TRUTH219:
QuoteLast year after I saw hrvoje vucic play 31 mins, I had seen enough.
DIED LAUGHING
Let's call a spade a spade! Our coaching in the OU game was a disaster!!! We have an 8-10 point lead and all of a sudden we decide to sit on it and hold the ball instead of running our offense which got us the lead. Buggs farts around for 30 seconds in the center circle and the best shot we get is a forced 3-pointer from 25 feet out - you've got to be kidding. And this happened more than once!! Buggs should be sitting a lot more. His play seems to get worse as the season progresses.
With coaching like that we wont have to worry about Bryce going to a big time job, that's for sure. We get beat by a 3-7 team, blowing a 8- 10 point lead with less than 5 minutes to go? The staff and the team should be ashamed of their performance...I know I was.
From my courtside seat:
1. Refs Friday night called tons of charging fouls, both ways. Last night, in very similar situations, they called at most one, late in the game. Something odd about that.
2. Boggs bear hugged Petros. Stupid. Also obvious. I have no idea what he was thinking.
3. Buggs: I have a feeling that's the way the rule has to be interpreted. It seems unfair, but maybe the refs can't do anything about it. Apparently Erik got suckered into a retaliation tech. Tempers were already short at that point. Bader was whining to the refs all night that Boggs was molesting him. I thought the two of them were going to go at it at one point.
4. Dority taunted the Oakland bench after the emphatic dunk in the first half. Apparently, Matt Kenney forgot to remind him about this. HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE FOR PLAYERS TO "GET THE MEMO" ON THIS???????????????????????????????
5. There were tons of hacking fouls committed by both sides. Almost none were called.
6. In short, other than the Techs, I did not see a huge amount of favoritism.
7. The missed FT bounced very quickly back to the shooter. Believe it or not, the 4 Valpo players had no chance at it. It bounced squarely off the back edge of the rim. Unlucky bounce.
Ryan did get off a fairly decent shot though contested to be sure. It may have been a bit more rushed that he would have liked.
Obviously the turnovers were huge. Oakland missed a ton of close-in shots.
The curious part of the game that I didn't figure out even though it unfolded in front of me was when they left Kevin alone 3 straight times underneath, then all of a sudden everything stopped. It happened so fast, I did not notice the reason. I'm guessing that's when Bryce decided to slow it down. I'm sure he had his reasons, and he surely knew more about the condition of his team than we do.
It was frustrating to lose, but it was also well worth 10.5 hour drive for me. The place was electric in the final minutes. Kampe said it felt like he was in Cameron Indoor Stadium.
It was a typical Oakland-Valpo game. By my count we still have a large margin in the "heartbreaking loss" category of this series. Meanwhile, they have now won 5 of the last 6. I'd say the tables have turned.
Although this comment may be blasphemous, perhaps the team is not receiving particularly strong basketball coaching at the moment. As any competent coach can attest, there is a huge difference between recruiting and motivating/coaching So far, Bryce and crew have demonstrated a superlative ability to recruit, but I have not seen anything that "wows" me with respect to in-game motivation or coaching decisions.
Bryce and Roger are still learning the coaching profession. Neither one of them is Brad Stevens, and they may never be as effective as Stevens, but we might be expecting too much of them in light of their relative inexperience.
Quote from: StlVUFan on December 18, 2012, 09:39:14 PM7. The missed FT bounced very quickly back to the shooter. Believe it or not, the 4 Valpo players had no chance at it. It bounced squarely off the back edge of the rim. Unlucky bounce.
There is a thing called "I got the shooter." Whoever is responsible for the shooter immediately steps in front of the opposing player taking the FT and prevents exactly this very thing from happening. The very reason why the team not taking the FT designates a player to block out the shooter is so this
never ever happens. It's called one of the fundamentals of basketball. The same as blocking out your designated man when a shot goes up so your man doesn't get an offensive rebound. This is another of the fundamentals of basketball.
Quote from: bbtds on December 19, 2012, 01:10:07 AM
Quote from: StlVUFan on December 18, 2012, 09:39:14 PM7. The missed FT bounced very quickly back to the shooter. Believe it or not, the 4 Valpo players had no chance at it. It bounced squarely off the back edge of the rim. Unlucky bounce.
There is a thing called "I got the shooter." Whoever is responsible for the shooter immediately steps in front of the opposing player taking the FT and prevents exactly this very thing from happening. The very reason why the team not taking the FT designates a player to block out the shooter is so this never ever happens. It's called one of the fundamentals of basketball. The same as blocking out your designated man when a shot goes up so your man doesn't get an offensive rebound. This is another of the fundamentals of basketball.
It happened so fast, the FT shooter didn't have to move. The ball literally bounced right back to the FT line.
Quote from: valpo64 on December 18, 2012, 07:38:03 PM
Let's call a spade a spade! Our coaching in the OU game was a disaster!!! We have an 8-10 point lead and all of a sudden we decide to sit on it and hold the ball instead of running our offense which got us the lead. Buggs farts around for 30 seconds in the center circle and the best shot we get is a forced 3-pointer from 25 feet out - you've got to be kidding. And this happened more than once!! Buggs should be sitting a lot more. His play seems to get worse as the season progresses.
With coaching like that we wont have to worry about Bryce going to a big time job, that's for sure. We get beat by a 3-7 team, blowing a 8- 10 point lead with less than 5 minutes to go? The staff and the team should be ashamed of their performance...I know I was.
I've said this for years. The Drews refuse to put their foot on the neck of their opponents. There seems to be a flat refusal to beat the heck out of teams. THey go into a prevent all the team, and instead of putting the game away, they hold back. And it's gonna end up killing them'
Quote from: milldew72 on December 19, 2012, 10:10:45 AM
Quote from: valpo64 on December 18, 2012, 07:38:03 PM
Let's call a spade a spade! Our coaching in the OU game was a disaster!!! We have an 8-10 point lead and all of a sudden we decide to sit on it and hold the ball instead of running our offense which got us the lead. Buggs farts around for 30 seconds in the center circle and the best shot we get is a forced 3-pointer from 25 feet out - you've got to be kidding. And this happened more than once!! Buggs should be sitting a lot more. His play seems to get worse as the season progresses.
With coaching like that we wont have to worry about Bryce going to a big time job, that's for sure. We get beat by a 3-7 team, blowing a 8- 10 point lead with less than 5 minutes to go? The staff and the team should be ashamed of their performance...I know I was.
I've said this for years. The Drews refuse to put their foot on the neck of their opponents. There seems to be a flat refusal to beat the heck out of teams. THey go into a prevent all the team, and instead of putting the game away, they hold back. And it's gonna end up killing them'
I did not see the game. From the box score and play-by-play, we went from a 9 point deficit to a 9 point lead in 10.5 minutes. Obviously very good play during that time. With a 9 point lead and 4:51 left to play, we should be able to finish that game with a win. From posts on this board, it appears that the team went into a sit and hold mode, which apparantly stalled our momentum. During the last 5 minutes, we missed 5 shots, 4 of them 3 pointers. Why does a team with the lead need to shoot three's? To finish games we need be in position for good shots, getting the ball close to the basket, where we can either get a good shot or go to the foul line. Running the normal offense and taking shots when open will finish a game more than taking time off the clock and missing a three pointer. I'm sure the team will be working these issues, as we will have many close games in HL play. Of course if we had limited our TOs, fouls and poor shot selection in the last five minutes, maybe this game would have been an 8-10 point win, and not close in the final seconds. With a team like this, we should have gone to the line 25 times, not Oakland.
Quote from: crusaderjoe on December 17, 2012, 07:38:30 AMI just hope that if we get out to a lead that we maintain it, and if we have a chance to stomp on their neck and go for the kill at some point that we actually do it so game momentum has no chance of shifting.
On the road we either curl up into a ball or offer no killer instinct when we're actually in a game which ultimately makes VU have to rely on the other team's weaknesses in order to win, IMO.
Unfortunately for Valpo the above was truly prophetic. It happened exactly opposite of the way you wanted it to happen.
if it makes anyone feel any better, Oakland is on top of West Virginia at halftime....
Paul Oren got a great quote about the Oakland game, which runs in his game day piece today,
http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/valparaiso-university/crusaders-struggling-in-close-games-this-season/article_3ea8944f-f900-57e8-b7b8-81ea3d8dd8bd.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/valparaiso-university/crusaders-struggling-in-close-games-this-season/article_3ea8944f-f900-57e8-b7b8-81ea3d8dd8bd.html)
Quote
Drew said on Wednesday that there could be some changes in the starting lineup, but one place there wouldn't be changes would be in his end-of-game philosophy. The Crusaders spent much of the final five minutes of the Oakland game slowing down the ball on offense and running time off the clock.
"We looked at the tape, and if I could go back, I'd do the same thing," Drew said. "It's something that we've done. We didn't slow it down out of transition, just off the set plays. If we make one more basket, it's probably a different outcome, and then we're talking about something different."
Thanks for asking it Paul - fantastic to hear Bryce on this.
It's something that we've done! No kidding! I hope Bryce knows something I don't here. (And, yes, of course... he might well. But...) Because, with the rest of you, it sure looks bad to see this over and over again. It just doesn't look effective.
Why wait _so long_ in the shot clock to even _start_ running the offense? But, apparently, there's more of it to come...
I'd love to see some modeling of this, if someone can somehow demonstrate that it's an effective strategy. Heck, even a plausible hand waving explanation would be nice.
Maybe it's about preventing turnovers? Our turnover rate is pretty high, so maybe just sitting on the ball _does_ turn out to be safest?
"We looked at the tape, and if I could go back, I'd do the same thing," Romney said.
"We looked at the tape, and if I could go back, I'd do the same thing," Earhart said.
"We looked at the tape, and if I could go back, I'd do the same thing," every Bills coach since Marv Levy said.
Good lord, not what I wanted to hear. We took many bad shots during that 5 minute slowdown, all because we didn't start moving until about 10 seconds left on the shot clock! Put your damn foot on the throat of the opposition, before giving them hope!!!
If we're slowing down in hopes of getting them so frustrated that we get to the free throw line, then drive the lane, and force them to foul, not wait until we're in a hurry-up offense with 10 seconds in the shot clock so we cause turnovers of our own.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on December 20, 2012, 09:58:21 AM
"We looked at the tape, and if I could go back, I'd do the same thing," Romney said.
"We looked at the tape, and if I could go back, I'd do the same thing," Earhart said.
"We looked at the tape, and if I could go back, I'd do the same thing," every Bills coach since Marv Levy said.
lol
While Bryce is a very young, inexperienced D-1 coach, I hope he'll learn from the veteran coaches who have strong teams year in and year out...a good example of keeping after it was last night 's Indiana game, they keep pushing..it seems like we back off. It's about time we start getting after it - maybe tonight and we can start performing like we should be expected to perform.
Maybe it's not quite swagger, but there has got to be a confidence that exudes. You guys who are close to the campus and attend games -- do you see that? Talent-wise, isn't that what separates Butler from us? Do they really have the talent to defeat the #1 and the #whatever team in country or is it in-bred attitude? If it is the latter, then that is what Bryce has got to draw out of the kids in the next couple of weeks. They are old enough and experienced enough to walk onto any court and believe they own it. But up to now, from a distance, that hasn't been happening. Or am I out in left field somewhere?
I don't even know what to say.... I guess I will just say
I have ALWAYS hated the slow down offensive. It is playing not to lose instead of playing to win. We were pulling away - turned a deficit into a lead. (Obviously we "were" doing something right. Usually it is the other team wants to "ice" a team.)
:twocents:
Quote from: VULB#62 on December 20, 2012, 06:36:45 PM
Maybe it's not quite swagger, but there has got to be a confidence that exudes. You guys who are close to the campus and attend games -- do you see that? Talent-wise, isn't that what separates Butler from us? Do they really have the talent to defeat the #1 and the #whatever team in country or is it in-bred attitude? If it is the latter, then that is what Bryce has got to draw out of the kids in the next couple of weeks. They are old enough and experienced enough to walk onto any court and believe they own it. But up to now, from a distance, that hasn't been happening. Or am I out in left field somewhere?
I forget who we hosted at the ARC in the post season 2 years ago (Iona maybe?), but I do remember how they just imposed their will on us from minute one. Right out of the gate they looked more confident (and more interested), played extremely physically, improvised, took shots when they were there, and in general just looked they knew exactly what they wanted to do and went out and did it. We never did match their energy level, except in short bursts. We just looked goofy. I think that's a pretty good example of exactly what you're talking about. By the way, that was the same Valpo team that only a couple of weeks earlier dominated 1st place MVC team Missouri State on that same court. This "mental" inconsistency is a longstanding problem at Valpo. I don't know what the answer is. I wish I did.
wh, it was Iona, during the CIT. We just keep going downhill in non-conference games that have some meaning to them. Tonight, you could visibly see IUPUI just fizzle away, but we could have put the game away a lot sooner. The first half struggles were probably with getting used to the new lineup, and how the ball would get passed around, since Ryan and Kevin were used to how Buggs and Bogan would be, now they are getting used to Dority and Kenney starting, that can mentally mess with your head if it's a new rotation 12 games into the season.
Quote from: wh on December 20, 2012, 10:46:59 PMI forget who we hosted at the ARC in the post season 2 years ago (Iona maybe?), but I do remember how they just imposed their will on us from minute one. Right out of the gate they looked more confident (and more interested), played extremely physically, improvised, took shots when they were there, and in general just looked they knew exactly what they wanted to do and went out and did it. We never did match their energy level, except in short bursts. We just looked goofy. I think that's a pretty good example of exactly what you're talking about. By the way, that was the same Valpo team that only a couple of weeks earlier dominated 1st place MVC team Missouri State on that same court. This "mental" inconsistency is a longstanding problem at Valpo. I don't know what the answer is. I wish I did.
Yes it was Iona, and there were if you remember; those night on the town rumors that I wouldn't confirm even if I could. You might also remember that Iona might have been the first team that totally abandonded Erik and only guarded those on our team where they could score. Cory Johnson was given plenty of room at the 3 point line as well.
If and when this coach and these players figure out what each needs to do to win then this confidence issue could turn on a dime and suddenly it might be the opposing coaching staffs having the sleepless nights. I still believe that this group of players (with its talents and limitations) will give us and the world of college basketball a pretty good idea of how good or bad Bryce is going to be at his chosen profession.