I'm guessing we will have a lot to discuss over the next 94+ hours to tip off in the ARC...
The 26th game of the season continues to be a lucky number as we have now won more of those games than any other game counter; and we continue our Dominance on February 12th games at 7-1 over the past 20 years.
Now, let's talk about game #27. Not a bright spot in the annuls of basketball numerology at Valpo. We have lost 5 straight game #27. BUT! Every one of those has been on the road! Each time, it was a different HL team... we have never played Detroit in game #27.
In the ARC over the past 20 years we are 5-2, including these events;
'06-07, Homer's 300th win at Valpo 80-56 over Western Illinois
'03-04, 74-66 win over Chicago State that CLINCHED #1 SEED IN MID CON!
Win it for Koala!!
Looks like tickets are selling fairly well. Maybe not _quite_ as well as Coach Gore suggested ;) But fairly well. If you want three seats together, you're upstairs. And even the mezzanine is filling in pretty nicely.
I wonder if they'll do anything for faculty+staff+students, like they used to do with the Butler games - giving out printed tickets in advance, instead of just walking in.
Hopefully this game is completely full, as it should be this late in the season for a 1/2 matchup! Especially considering what Detroit did last year, we need the fans into the game from the opening tip. I think we pull it out, and win by double digits, with the Rays leaving town with their egos bruised and battered.
Valpo 82
Detroit 70
Btw, in another 30 pt blowout, Ray Jr plays 37 minutes...
KVW had 20 and 9 tonight. Given that Detroit has absolutely no one that can stop him, he might be headed for his 2nd POW honors.
Quote from: valpotx on February 12, 2013, 09:16:28 PM
Btw, in another 30 pt blowout, Ray Jr plays 37 minutes...
They are an embarrassment to themselves, their fans, and the Horizon League.
Play-by-Play shows Detroit's starters did not come out of the game until 1:46 left. Detroit was leading by 34 points. Classless.
Their behavior may ultimately come back to bite them when they need to play four games and their thin lineup in beat to heck. Time will tell...
Quote from: vu72 on February 12, 2013, 11:08:17 PM
Their behavior may ultimately come back to bite them when they need to play four games and their thin lineup in beat to heck. Time will tell...
You really believe Detroit will finish 4th or lower? Remember that the 3rd place finisher gets a single bye in this year's HL tournament.
This game is extremely important beyond that its Detroit and we hate them.
Detroit is on the road at Loyola and UIC (should be wins for them). We still have to play YSU @ home (lost to them before) play @ Loyola (lost to them before) and then finish @ Greeny Bay (difficult to win in Green Bay)
I don't want to put bad thoughts out there and I believe we will win as we are the better team. BUT, if we lose this one and another, Detroit wins out (as they should) What would happen? We would be tied for 1st with Detroit. I don't want to mention if we lose against Detroit and another two....(its possible with the schedule)
Sorry to be Debbie Downer.......
Can we all slow down, the Horizon conference season is a "game at a time" conference. Detroit is the only game that matters right now. We can worry about YSU, Loyola and Green Bay later (although YSU and Loyola are different clubs than when we last saw them). Detroit is one game on the schedule. Win or lose. We just won 2 games on the road in the middle of February. Enjoy. CSU still has a bracketbuster trip and Temple plus the rest of conference season. We need to only worry about us.
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 13, 2013, 07:08:15 AM
This game is extremely important beyond that its Detroit and we hate them.
Detroit is on the road at Loyola and UIC (should be wins for them). We still have to play YSU @ home (lost to them before) play @ Loyola (lost to them before) and then finish @ Greeny Bay (difficult to win in Green Bay)
I don't want to put bad thoughts out there and I believe we will win as we are the better team. BUT, if we lose this one and another, Detroit wins out (as they should) What would happen? We would be tied for 1st with Detroit. I don't want to mention if we lose against Detroit and another two....(its possible with the schedule)
Sorry to be Debbie Downer.......
Your comments point out pretty clearly that there are still roadblocks ahead that are not going to be easy to overcome. Let me offer up something on the other side of the coin. IF we were to run the table - 4 conf. games, BB, and 2 HL Tournament wins, I estimate that our RPI will improve by another 15 points. We would also end the regular season on an 11 game winning streak, and won 17 of our final 18 games. I think that would put us in solid contention for a 13 seed. I don't think our SOS is good enough to get us anything better, but as others have pointed out a 13 is hugely important toward getting out of the 1st round.
Quote from: wh on February 12, 2013, 09:42:12 PMQuote from: valpotx on February 12, 2013, 09:16:28 PMBtw, in another 30 pt blowout, Ray Jr plays 37 minutes...
They are an embarrassment to themselves, their fans, and the Horizon League.
A blogger on their website justified the large minutes for the starters in the 30 point blowout; as they were trying to get Jason 1,000 points.
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 13, 2013, 09:04:41 AM
Quote from: wh on February 12, 2013, 09:42:12 PMQuote from: valpotx on February 12, 2013, 09:16:28 PMBtw, in another 30 pt blowout, Ray Jr plays 37 minutes...
They are an embarrassment to themselves, their fans, and the Horizon League.
A blogger on their website justified the large minutes for the starters in the 30 point blowout; as they were trying to get Jason 1,000 points.
Really?? Was this the kids final game?? How friggin weak. I hope the are exhausted on Saturday.
Quote from: valpo84 on February 13, 2013, 08:32:01 AM
Can we all slow down, the Horizon conference season is a "game at a time" conference. Detroit is the only game that matters right now. We can worry about YSU, Loyola and Green Bay later (although YSU and Loyola are different clubs than when we last saw them). Detroit is one game on the schedule. Win or lose. We just won 2 games on the road in the middle of February. Enjoy. CSU still has a bracketbuster trip and Temple plus the rest of conference season. We need to only worry about us.
seconded. let's just take care of business to close out the season, and then worry about the conference tourney.
Quote from: vu72 on February 13, 2013, 09:24:48 AM
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 13, 2013, 09:04:41 AM
Quote from: wh on February 12, 2013, 09:42:12 PMQuote from: valpotx on February 12, 2013, 09:16:28 PMBtw, in another 30 pt blowout, Ray Jr plays 37 minutes...
They are an embarrassment to themselves, their fans, and the Horizon League.
A blogger on their website justified the large minutes for the starters in the 30 point blowout; as they were trying to get Jason 1,000 points.
Really?? Was this the kids final game?? How friggin weak. I hope the are exhausted on Saturday.
absolutely disgraceful. i'd say sr must really be scared of his bench coughing up a 30 point lead, but it was the starters that did it against us. so there's really no excuse.
You could say that Detroit is a disgRAYce to good sportsmanship :)
Quote from: vu72 on February 13, 2013, 09:24:48 AMReally?? Was this the kids final game?? How friggin weak. I hope the are exhausted on Saturday.
They won't be. Detroit is an unbelievably streaky team, emotion rules the day for them so the key to Saturday comes down to playing well in each half before the under 12 media breaks. If we have starts like the last two games it will go a long way to winning this game. When they get up and play loose care free unstructured ball is when they are most dangerous. Get them down early and let the
crowd apply the pressure and they could fold. I don't think UDM is particularly mentally tough on the floor or on the bench.
Nobody's commented on SC Top 10 this morning... so I will also ignore the #1 play on the 5:50am Central Time...(I was at the fitness center getting in my workout... )
Quote from: talksalot on February 13, 2013, 09:59:58 AM
Nobody's commented on SC Top 10 this morning... so I will also ignore the #1 play on the 5:50am Central Time...(I was at the fitness center getting in my workout... )
Inquiring minds want to know! Please fill in the non-ESPN watchers among us.
(Do they archive these things? I would also like to see their riff on KVW's shot from his derriere.)
Quote from: wh on February 13, 2013, 08:45:00 AMIF we were to run the table - 4 conf. games, BB, and 2 HL Tournament wins, I estimate that our RPI will improve by another 15 points.
rpiforecast.com runs the numbers on these things periodically. Of course, there's speculation involved since it depends on not just our own record, but on the record of lots of other teams.
Their latest is from Feb 11. http://www.rpiforecast.com/teams/Valparaiso.html (http://www.rpiforecast.com/teams/Valparaiso.html)
At that time, before the Wright State game, they gave us a 7.4% chance of winning out the regular season. (I guess that now jumps to at least 17%, since we overcame one of the biggest hurdles last night. Though they predict other hurdles are about as high, and UWGB is higher.) And, if that happens, they predict our RPI would be at #53.
Their prediction for us winning out the regular season _and_ the conference tourney was... actually a slightly lower RPI rank (53.2 vs. 53.1). And a 3.86% probability (maybe that's now 8.97%). I'd have thought that two more wins would help our RPI at least a little, but I guess the ranks get pretty dense up in the 50's. They're home games, of course, but presumably against decent teams...
I've not tried any big bracket forecasting yet. But, a 53 RPI and a strong record (even if it lacks any signature wins...) sure sounds better than an RPI in the 70's or 80's (or worse) with several conference losses.
Doug Anderson had two huge alley oop dunks last night and one of them is No. 1 on the SportsCenter top 10.
I wonder what our friend Gary Waters had to say in the press conference after taking the shellacking. It had to have been Cleveland State's poor defensive game plan, and inability to make layups.
Say, that reminds me. The team that makes the most baskets wins. ;)
Anderson's dunk, featuring commentary. Note the nice no-look pass from Bruinsma to make the play possible
URULE of the NITE: Doug Anderson Alley-Oop Almost Takes the Rim Off (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOhhCpiAWA4#ws)
Edit: Since this is SC's Top Play, it's up for "Best of the Best" against Jadeveon Clowney's hit from the Outback Bowl. I just noticed the screen of the voting page said it was an alley-oop from Ray McCallum to Doug Anderson. The video clearly shows it's Calliste ooping it to Doug with Junior standing behind Doug. Yet, even the box score play-by-play gives the assist to Junior. I made such a comment in the "Could This Happen Again" Detroit thread in the "Horizon" section, but how bad can the stats guys at Detroit be?
Quote from: vuweathernerd on February 13, 2013, 09:46:08 AM
Quote from: valpo84 on February 13, 2013, 08:32:01 AM
Can we all slow down, the Horizon conference season is a "game at a time" conference. Detroit is the only game that matters right now. We can worry about YSU, Loyola and Green Bay later (although YSU and Loyola are different clubs than when we last saw them). Detroit is one game on the schedule. Win or lose. We just won 2 games on the road in the middle of February. Enjoy. CSU still has a bracketbuster trip and Temple plus the rest of conference season. We need to only worry about us.
seconded. let's just take care of business to close out the season, and then worry about the conference tourney.
Quote from: vu72 on February 13, 2013, 09:24:48 AM
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 13, 2013, 09:04:41 AM
Quote from: wh on February 12, 2013, 09:42:12 PMQuote from: valpotx on February 12, 2013, 09:16:28 PMBtw, in another 30 pt blowout, Ray Jr plays 37 minutes...
They are an embarrassment to themselves, their fans, and the Horizon League.
A blogger on their website justified the large minutes for the starters in the 30 point blowout; as they were trying to get Jason 1,000 points.
Really?? Was this the kids final game?? How friggin weak. I hope the are exhausted on Saturday.
absolutely disgraceful. i'd say sr must really be scared of his bench coughing up a 30 point lead, but it was the starters that did it against us. so there's really no excuse.
Here's a quick peak at the play-by-play where some of the starters are still on the court late, including the bucket that Calliste surpassed 1000 points with...
QuoteGOOD! FT SHOT by MINNERATH, Nick 03:09 83-57 H 26 FOUL by MASON, Marlin (P3T8)
GOOD! FT SHOT by MINNERATH, Nick 03:09 84-57 H 27
REBOUND (DEF) by MINNERATH, Nick 03:01 MISSED LAYUP by DOUGLAS, Sebastian
GOOD! LAYUP by McCALLUM, Ray [PNT] 02:37 86-57 H 29
REBOUND (DEF) by BRUINSMA, Evan 02:28 MISSED 3 PTR by FORBES, Bryn
GOOD! 3 PTR by CALLISTE, Jason [FB] 02:18 89-57 H 32
Quote from: KL31NY on February 13, 2013, 10:39:37 AMAnderson's dunk, featuring commentary. Note the nice no-look pass from "Thrift Shop" to make the play possible
Wow! That's an _amazing_ play. From the outlet pass on to the end. Definitely worthy. Anderson really is amazing to watch. Reminds me of the Norris Cole to Lebron James play the other night, except the setup is probably more impressive.
My only point of doubt is the initial steal. Was it actually a steal? Or did the ball handler, under pressure, just sort of lose the ball at an odd angle?
Thanks for the link.
(Any love for the KVW footage?)
Quote from: valpo84 on February 13, 2013, 08:32:01 AMCSU still has a bracketbuster trip and Temple plus the rest of conference season. We need to only worry about us.
When is Cleveland State playing Temple? Remember, "scrutiny" is our middle name. ;)
This came from the Detroit blog. They want Nick 1st team HL. He did have a career night against us. Went for over 30 points....My problem is they have no respect for Kevin.
He is better than any big man in the HL. But will the HL push Alec Brown (no slouch) because the NBA scouts are watching him and it wouldn't help his chances for the NBA without that on his record? Avercamp has nice numbers, but its with Loyola and Nick is better. Eargle has not impressed me. Van Wijk -- nope. I'll take Nick again.
I think Ray and Broekoff are the 2 best players in the conference and it may come down to which teams wins the conference tournament to name a POY, but I put Nick as a solid 3rd best player in the conference. Anything less than 1st team HL will be a major shaft.
Your thoughts.
Quote from: KL31NY on February 13, 2013, 10:39:37 AM
I just noticed the screen of the voting page said it was an alley-oop from Ray McCallum to Doug Anderson. The video clearly shows it's Calliste ooping it to Doug with Junior standing behind Doug. Yet, even the box score play-by-play gives the assist to Junior. I made such a comment in the "Could This Happen Again" Detroit thread in the "Horizon" section, but how bad can the stats guys at Detroit be?
In addition to trying to "get Doug 1000 pts" they are also trying to get little Ray 200 assists for the season. The official scorer is just trying to do his (her) part. You have to remember that cheating at Detroit Mercy is no big deal. Just ask their former A.D. and asst coach.
Quote from: bbtds on February 13, 2013, 11:16:09 AMQuote from: valpo84 on February 13, 2013, 08:32:01 AMCSU still has a bracketbuster trip and Temple plus the rest of conference season. We need to only worry about us.
When is Cleveland State playing Temple? Remember, "scrutiny" is our middle name. ;)
Detroit plays Temple, game after BB
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 13, 2013, 11:24:08 AM
This came from the Detroit blog. They want Nick 1st team HL. He did have a career night against us. Went for over 30 points....My problem is they have no respect for Kevin.
This would be a good time to plug my PER ratings :) http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=1201 (http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=1201) http://tinyurl.com/021013PER (http://tinyurl.com/021013PER)
Using my numbers as a guide and thinking things through, I'd have Rowdy, Junior, Perry, and Van Wijk for sure. Averkamp or Minnerath would be my 5th. Depends on whether you prefer the player with the better numbers or impact with a better team.
Quote from: wh on February 13, 2013, 11:34:49 AM
In addition to trying to "get Doug 1000 pts" they are also trying to get little Ray 200 assists for the season. The official scorer is just trying to do his (her) part. You have to remember that cheating at Detroit Mercy is no big deal. Just ask their former A.D. and asst coach.
Ooooooh, that's a nice shot. Point well taken.
Good catch, meant Detroit.
wh, I thought the original 1,000 point mention was for Caliste, not Anderson? It would take a few hundred more truckloads of dunks for "ANDERSON" to be near 1,000 points, wouldn't it?
Quote from: valporun on February 13, 2013, 12:42:13 PM
wh, I thought the original 1,000 point mention was for Caliste, not Anderson? It would take a few hundred more truckloads of dunks for "ANDERSON" to be near 1,000 points, wouldn't it?
I meant Jason. I've got "Doug" on the brain right now after watching that dunk. :)
Quote from: KL31NY on February 13, 2013, 11:53:35 AMQuote from: oklahomamick on February 13, 2013, 11:24:08 AMThis came from the Detroit blog. They want Nick 1st team HL. He did have a career night against us. Went for over 30 points....My problem is they have no respect for Kevin.
This would be a good time to plug my PER ratings :) http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=1201 (http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=1201) http://tinyurl.com/021013PER (http://tinyurl.com/021013PER) Using my numbers as a guide and thinking things through, I'd have Rowdy, Junior, Perry, and Van Wijk for sure. Averkamp or Minnerath would be my 5th. Depends on whether you prefer the player with the better numbers or impact with a better team.
I've got to ask, how much does Kevin's FG% inflate his PER? The 4.7 boards per game seems awfully low for a guy playing his position and at his size, especially when a bench guy playing 6 minutes less per game is grabbing more. I feel like that will hurt KVW's 1st team chances.
Quote from: Kyle321n on February 13, 2013, 12:54:12 PMI've got to ask, how much does Kevin's FG% inflate his PER? The 4.7 boards per game seems awfully low for a guy playing his position and at his size, especially when a bench guy playing 6 minutes less per game is grabbing more. I feel like that will hurt KVW's 1st team chances.
It's sort of like he and Rowdy have a contract. Normally Rowdy scoops up the routine defensive boards (with authority!). Last night this was somewhat violated...
Bobby seems to take more of the "routine" defensive rebounds than KVW, for some reason.
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 13, 2013, 11:24:08 AMI think Ray and Broekoff are the 2 best players in the conference and it may come down to which teams wins the conference tournament to name a POY, but I put Nick as a solid 3rd best player in the conference. Anything less than 1st team HL will be a major shaft.
I think you're still quoting the Detroit fan here.
Don't they decide the all-conference awards _before_ the tournament?
Last year's announcement is here
http://www.horizonleague.org/blog/horizon-league-announces-mens-basketball-award-winners.html (http://www.horizonleague.org/blog/horizon-league-announces-mens-basketball-award-winners.html)
the day before the first round games.
So, yeah, it may well come down to who wins the regular season. And, it seems like Rowdy's numbers and his team performance are likely to be more impressive. Sweeping the competition, instead of splitting with them (especially if the better half of the split had to overcome a huge deficit), would sure help the cause.
Bobby has become a nice role player. I think we definitely would have beat Nebraska if he had been healthy and playing the minutes he gets now.
However, he does have a puzzling lack of ability to finish down low. Can that be taught or is he just a step slow? It just seems like he backs away instinctively even though he is 250+ pounds. Maybe this horse was beaten already. I was away from this board a lot in December.
Quote from: Kyle321n on February 13, 2013, 12:54:12 PM
I've got to ask, how much does Kevin's FG% inflate his PER? The 4.7 boards per game seems awfully low for a guy playing his position and at his size, especially when a bench guy playing 6 minutes less per game is grabbing more. I feel like that will hurt KVW's 1st team chances.
It's definitely a factor, arguably the biggest one. Made shots are worth about 3 times more than missed shots in my shorthand formula. So KVW's awesome FG%, plus his good FT shooting, bump up his PER a couple notches above the other forwards in the league. If he were shooting say 50% FG, he'd be about even with Anderson, below Averkamp and Eargle
Also, playing just 22 minutes/game increases his PER. Since PER is basically an average, and minutes is a key part to setting that average, there's a smaller number to divide by...
Quote from: Kyle321n on February 13, 2013, 12:54:12 PM
Quote from: KL31NY on February 13, 2013, 11:53:35 AMQuote from: oklahomamick on February 13, 2013, 11:24:08 AMThis came from the Detroit blog. They want Nick 1st team HL. He did have a career night against us. Went for over 30 points....My problem is they have no respect for Kevin.
This would be a good time to plug my PER ratings :) http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=1201 (http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=1201) http://tinyurl.com/021013PER (http://tinyurl.com/021013PER) Using my numbers as a guide and thinking things through, I'd have Rowdy, Junior, Perry, and Van Wijk for sure. Averkamp or Minnerath would be my 5th. Depends on whether you prefer the player with the better numbers or impact with a better team.
I've got to ask, how much does Kevin's FG% inflate his PER? The 4.7 boards per game seems awfully low for a guy playing his position and at his size, especially when a bench guy playing 6 minutes less per game is grabbing more. I feel like that will hurt KVW's 1st team chances.
I think Ryan, Jr, Perry and Avercamp are locks for the first team. Avercamp is 4th in scoring, 3rd in rebounds and 5th in blocks. Minnerath is having a very good year, but so are a few others including KVW. These awards are given after the regular season and before the tourney, so if we win KVW will probably get the nod. Alec Brown is the one who is having an off year.
Quote from: wh on February 13, 2013, 01:36:49 PM
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 13, 2013, 11:24:08 AM
This came from the Detroit blog. They want Nick 1st team HL. He did have a career night against us. Went for over 30 points....My problem is they have no respect for Kevin.
He is better than any big man in the HL. But will the HL push Alec Brown (no slouch) because the NBA scouts are watching him and it wouldn't help his chances for the NBA without that on his record? Avercamp has nice numbers, but its with Loyola and Nick is better. Eargle has not impressed me. Van Wijk -- nope. I'll take Nick again.
I think Ray and Broekoff are the 2 best players in the conference and it may come down to which teams wins the conference tournament to name a POY, but I put Nick as a solid 3rd best player in the conference. Anything less than 1st team HL will be a major shaft.
Your thoughts.
I used Stat Sheet's comparison feature to show stats side-by-side for KVW, Minnerath and Brown:
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=alec-brown&p1=kevin-van-wijk&p2=nick-minnerath (http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=alec-brown&p1=kevin-van-wijk&p2=nick-minnerath)
KVW and Minnerath are difficult to compare because they are 2 completely different kinds of players. Kevin is strictly a low post, back to the basket center with great post moves and an uncanny ability to finish. Minnerath is not really a center at all; he's a 4 and a very good one. While Minnerath was very hot in game-1 and had a career game, Kevin ate him up on the other end and had a career game himself. KVW and Brown play similar positions. Brown is a better outside shooter, but KVW is far superior in finishing around the basket. Based on the numbers, I think KVW holds a definite edge over Brown. Comparing KVW and Minnerath is apples to oranges - who knows?
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 13, 2013, 11:24:08 AM
This came from the Detroit blog. They want Nick 1st team HL. He did have a career night against us. Went for over 30 points....My problem is they have no respect for Kevin.
He is better than any big man in the HL. But will the HL push Alec Brown (no slouch) because the NBA scouts are watching him and it wouldn't help his chances for the NBA without that on his record? Avercamp has nice numbers, but its with Loyola and Nick is better. Eargle has not impressed me. Van Wijk -- nope. I'll take Nick again.
I think Ray and Broekoff are the 2 best players in the conference and it may come down to which teams wins the conference tournament to name a POY, but I put Nick as a solid 3rd best player in the conference. Anything less than 1st team HL will be a major shaft.
Your thoughts.
the conference tournament will not have a role in determining who wins player of the year. it'll be voted on before they get to that point. i think that this game on saturday will go a long way in determining who gets it. if jr can avenge the chokejob from game 1, he'll get some points back. but if rowdy has his usual game and ray jr looks similar to game 1, that may well just about seal it up for ryan. if it was up to me, the race would already be just about over - nothing short of jr dropping 30+ and averaging a triple-double for the rest of the year would get him caught up.
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 13, 2013, 11:24:08 AM
This came from the Detroit blog. They want Nick 1st team HL. He did have a career night against us. Went for over 30 points....My problem is they have no respect for Kevin.
He is better than any big man in the HL. But will the HL push Alec Brown (no slouch) because the NBA scouts are watching him and it wouldn't help his chances for the NBA without that on his record? Avercamp has nice numbers, but its with Loyola and Nick is better. Eargle has not impressed me. Van Wijk -- nope. I'll take Nick again.
I think Ray and Broekoff are the 2 best players in the conference and it may come down to which teams wins the conference tournament to name a POY, but I put Nick as a solid 3rd best player in the conference. Anything less than 1st team HL will be a major shaft.
Your thoughts.
What Detroit blog did it come from?
Quote from: StlVUFan on February 13, 2013, 02:55:49 PM
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 13, 2013, 11:24:08 AM
This came from the Detroit blog. They want Nick 1st team HL. He did have a career night against us. Went for over 30 points....My problem is they have no respect for Kevin.
He is better than any big man in the HL. But will the HL push Alec Brown (no slouch) because the NBA scouts are watching him and it wouldn't help his chances for the NBA without that on his record? Avercamp has nice numbers, but its with Loyola and Nick is better. Eargle has not impressed me. Van Wijk -- nope. I'll take Nick again.
I think Ray and Broekoff are the 2 best players in the conference and it may come down to which teams wins the conference tournament to name a POY, but I put Nick as a solid 3rd best player in the conference. Anything less than 1st team HL will be a major shaft.
Your thoughts.
What Detroit blog did it come from?
By "blog", I think he meant "message board". http://detroittitanhoops.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=511 (http://detroittitanhoops.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=511) It's all on the interwebs, so why does nomenclature matter? ;D
In addition to disrespecting Kevin, we have this wonderful statement:
YES!!! What else does he have to do? Would you trade Nick for Averkamp or Broekoff? I would not. Dismiss me as a hopeless homer, but this time I'm right.
Minerath > Broekhoff? I don't think so.
Quote from: jloose128 on February 13, 2013, 04:28:41 PM
In addition to disrespecting Kevin, we have this wonderful statement:
YES!!! What else does he have to do? Would you trade Nick for Averkamp or Broekoff? I would not. Dismiss me as a hopeless homer, but this time I'm right.
Minerath > Broekhoff? I don't think so.
Ryan is hands down the best player in the HL - not even a close call. Everyone knows it. Some just don't want to admit it.
By the way, let us not forget that Ryan was named the Mid Major player of the year. He should never be in someone's brain at the same time they're thinking about players like Minerath and Averkamp.
Quote from: wh on February 13, 2013, 04:41:33 PMBy the way, let us not forget that Ryan was named the Mid Major player of the year.
Just at midseason.
http://www.horizonleague.org/blog/broekhoff-named-mid-major-midseason-player-of-the-year-by-collegeinsidercom.html (http://www.horizonleague.org/blog/broekhoff-named-mid-major-midseason-player-of-the-year-by-collegeinsidercom.html)
The real deal comes later.
Quote from: wh on February 13, 2013, 11:34:49 AMIn addition to trying to "get Doug 1000 pts" they are also trying to get little Ray 200 assists for the season. The official scorer is just trying to do his (her) part. You have to remember that cheating at Detroit Mercy is no big deal. Just ask their former A.D. and asst coach.
+1
:thumbsup:
A trip down memory lane:
2010 (One of my favorite games as a student)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGPDXoD2fug# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGPDXoD2fug#)
2011
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRIyGmTB55c# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRIyGmTB55c#)
2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiCSa-gdNoY#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiCSa-gdNoY#ws)
Quote from: govalpogo on February 13, 2013, 05:24:12 PM
2010 (One of my favorite games as a student)
Did commentary for that game for WVUR. That game, and specifically the play starting at 1:52, was when I thought at the time that it would be the birth of a nice rivalry. I had no way of knowing then how big this would grow in just a few years. It's epic now! It's even better than VU-BU, looking at it from both sides IMO
Quote from: govalpogo on February 13, 2013, 05:24:12 PM2011
ValpoHoops, that wasn't by any chance you doing the color commentary on this particular game, was it?
Quote from: StlVUFan on February 13, 2013, 06:56:49 PM
Quote from: govalpogo on February 13, 2013, 05:24:12 PM2011
ValpoHoops, that wasn't by any chance you doing the color commentary on this particular game, was it?
No, never did any mens games.
Quote from: KL31NY on February 13, 2013, 05:39:23 PM
Quote from: govalpogo on February 13, 2013, 05:24:12 PM
2010 (One of my favorite games as a student)
Did commentary for that game for WVUR. That game, and specifically the play starting at 1:52, was when I thought at the time that it would be the birth of a nice rivalry. I had no way of knowing then how big this would grow in just a few years. It's epic now! It's even better than VU-BU, looking at it from both sides IMO
I definitely like telling people that Butler is our rival (and that we have 4 straight wins against them) more because they know who Butler is. Also like the Intrastate rival aspect, the historical aspect, etc. I'd say that Butler is our "historic rival"
I also like the Detroit rivalry because it has a sort of Batman vs Joker aspect to it, meaning that we are opposites that
hate one another and make a good/close fight in the process. It's a battle of teamwork vs. individual glory, fundamentals vs. pure skill, humility vs. ego, Lutheran vs Jesuit ;), and its almost always a good show full of dominating runs, improbable comebacks, and gutty endurance. It's a battle of area codes, true mid-majors, and the coach's son vs. the coach's dream. It's a battle that has been set on a national stage thrice in a row (and may be four times come HL tourney time). Valpo could say, "well...Butler's good enough that we should be proud to have made it close." Valpo cannot say that about Detroit, nor Detroit about Valpo. Thus, it's always a game with one team seeking revenge and that's what makes it a good rivalry. It's Valparaiso. It's Detroit [no]Mercy. It's this Saturday. It's on ESPN 2. Get pumped.
Quote from: govalpogo on February 13, 2013, 07:35:11 PM
Quote from: KL31NY on February 13, 2013, 05:39:23 PM
Quote from: govalpogo on February 13, 2013, 05:24:12 PM
2010 (One of my favorite games as a student)
Did commentary for that game for WVUR. That game, and specifically the play starting at 1:52, was when I thought at the time that it would be the birth of a nice rivalry. I had no way of knowing then how big this would grow in just a few years. It's epic now! It's even better than VU-BU, looking at it from both sides IMO
I definitely like telling people that Butler is our rival (and that we have 4 straight wins against them) more because they know who Butler is. Also like the Intrastate rival aspect, the historical aspect, etc. I'd say that Butler is our "historic rival"
I also like the Detroit rivalry because it has a sort of Batman vs Joker aspect to it, meaning that we are opposites that hate one another and make a good/close fight in the process. It's a battle of teamwork vs. individual glory, fundamentals vs. pure skill, humility vs. ego, Lutheran vs Jesuit ;), and its almost always a good show full of dominating runs, improbable comebacks, and gutty endurance. It's a battle of area codes, true mid-majors, and the coach's son vs. the coach's dream. It's a battle that has been set on a national stage thrice in a row (and may be four times come HL tourney time). Valpo could say, "well...Butler's good enough that we should be proud to have made it close." Valpo cannot say that about Detroit, nor Detroit about Valpo. Thus, it's always a game with one team seeking revenge and that's what makes it a good rivalry. It's Valparaiso. It's Detroit [no]Mercy. It's this Saturday. It's on ESPN 2. Get pumped.
[/b]
Wow! super well written. All you need now is the guy with the deep voice from NFL films reading this prior to game time! yep, I'm pumped!!
Quote from: vu72 on February 13, 2013, 07:46:34 PM
Quote from: govalpogo on February 13, 2013, 07:35:11 PM
Quote from: KL31NY on February 13, 2013, 05:39:23 PM
Quote from: govalpogo on February 13, 2013, 05:24:12 PM
2010 (One of my favorite games as a student)
Did commentary for that game for WVUR. That game, and specifically the play starting at 1:52, was when I thought at the time that it would be the birth of a nice rivalry. I had no way of knowing then how big this would grow in just a few years. It's epic now! It's even better than VU-BU, looking at it from both sides IMO
I definitely like telling people that Butler is our rival (and that we have 4 straight wins against them) more because they know who Butler is. Also like the Intrastate rival aspect, the historical aspect, etc. I'd say that Butler is our "historic rival"
I also like the Detroit rivalry because it has a sort of Batman vs Joker aspect to it, meaning that we are opposites that hate one another and make a good/close fight in the process. It's a battle of teamwork vs. individual glory, fundamentals vs. pure skill, humility vs. ego, Lutheran vs Jesuit ;), and its almost always a good show full of dominating runs, improbable comebacks, and gutty endurance. It's a battle of area codes, true mid-majors, and the coach's son vs. the coach's dream. It's a battle that has been set on a national stage thrice in a row (and may be four times come HL tourney time). Valpo could say, "well...Butler's good enough that we should be proud to have made it close." Valpo cannot say that about Detroit, nor Detroit about Valpo. Thus, it's always a game with one team seeking revenge and that's what makes it a good rivalry. It's Valparaiso. It's Detroit [no]Mercy. It's this Saturday. It's on ESPN 2. Get pumped.
[/b]
Wow! super well written. All you need now is the guy with the deep voice from NFL films reading this prior to game time! yep, I'm pumped!!
how about our very own adam amin? it could be turned into an athletics commercial.
I like everything about this!!!!!!!!!
Rob Cavanaugh in a late pinch after the Adam Amin got called up to the Big Leagues. BTW: Paul Oren on color this Saturday.
QuoteQuoteA blogger on their website justified the large minutes for the starters in the 30 point blowout; as they were trying to get Jason 1,000 points.
Really?? Was this the kids final game?? How friggin weak. I hope the are exhausted on Saturday.
At home, dummy. They wanted him to hit 1000 points at home. Their next two games are on the road.
Quote from: Pathfinder on February 14, 2013, 08:13:35 AM
QuoteQuoteA blogger on their website justified the large minutes for the starters in the 30 point blowout; as they were trying to get Jason 1,000 points.
Really?? Was this the kids final game?? How friggin weak. I hope the are exhausted on Saturday.
At home, dummy. They wanted him to hit 1000 points at home. Their next two games are on the road.
Still weak...but not as weak as calling someone "dummy."
Quote from: valpo04 on February 14, 2013, 08:20:03 AMQuote from: Pathfinder on Today at 08:13:35 AMQuote (selected)Quote (selected)A blogger on their website justified the large minutes for the starters in the 30 point blowout; as they were trying to get Jason 1,000 points. Really?? Was this the kids final game?? How friggin weak. I hope the are exhausted on Saturday.At home, dummy. They wanted him to hit 1000 points at home. Their next two games are on the road.Still weak...but not as weak as calling someone "dummy."
This happens
ALL THE TIME at (insert school here around the nation).
There are two reasons they do it this way:
1) Do it at home in front of friends, family and where they can make a big deal out of it in the arena
2) Get it over with so the focus can be on the next game, rather than on someone needing a couple points for a milestone
Not saying that I necessarily agree with it, but I can in all honesty say that I've been guilty of doing it. ESPECIALLY when the next opponent is a really big game...if they were playing The Little Sisters of the Poor on Saturday (especially at home), they probably wouldn't have done it. However, they are playing the conference leaders, on the road, on national TV...
Good Lord, I think I just defended Detroit...excuse me while I go to church...
Just checked the ticket site and it appears that the lower deck is sold out (for two tickets together) with the exception of court side at $43.75 per ticket. Moving to the upper deck I needed to go to row PP in section CC to find two together.
Quote from: chef on February 14, 2013, 01:47:14 AM
Rob Cavanaugh in a late pinch after the Adam Amin got called up to the Big Leagues. BTW: Paul Oren on color this Saturday.
Ah yes, that does ring a bell, now that you mention it.
Quote from: vu72 on February 14, 2013, 09:43:19 AM
Just checked the ticket site and it appears that the lower deck is sold out (for two tickets together) with the exception of court side at $43.75 per ticket. Moving to the upper deck I needed to go to row PP in section CC to find two together.
Good to see advanced ticket sales ticking along. Should be a good crowd.
Pack the dang ARC!!!! I hate Detroit's players/coach so much. I don't mind their fans, though they appear very ignorant if they take Minnerath versus Rowdy. All Minnerath does is score, not the extras that Rowdy does. Rowdy wins POY over Ray this year if all continues as it has been. Regardless of how how much Sr tries to stuff the ballots for Jr by playing him 37 minutes in every 30 pt blowout, it won't work.
Detroit feeds off energy. They are an emotional team that will enjoy the taunts and heckling of the VU crowd. Detroit reminds me of an AND 1 basketball team.
Hopefully a few hundred come and buy tix on game day...as of right now there are plenty of seats available. Nothing like when butler would come to town
Quote from: Pathfinder on February 14, 2013, 08:13:35 AMAt home, dummy. They wanted him to hit 1000 points at home. Their next two games are on the road.
Great, genius. That explains Calliste.
Care to explain what ALL THE OTHER STARTERS WERE STILL DOING IN THEN?
In fact, if they REALLY wanted Calliste to get the points, then PULL ALL THE OTHER STARTERS.
With your crappy, crappy bench, he'd be the only plausible scoring option, and then surprise! He could get his lame points and go sit down.
But no.
Another wonderful post on the Detroit message board:
As for Valpo, I read the other teams' message boards from time to time, mainly before doing game previews but now and then other times, too. It's hard to hate or even dislike Valpo, a small, private, Lutheran school (I teach at a small, private Lutheran school) with high standards, and a group of players who seem to be really good kids who work hard.
But the fans on their message board are the worst in the Horizon, and sure make me want to hate them. As someone on the Youngstown board summed them up, "a bunch of pompous hayseeds." They're total homers, with zero ability to recognize their team's deficiencies or other team's pluses, like they've never seen a game outside of Valparaiso. They've got this huge chip on their shoulders about "respect." You sense that if you were to note that Ryan Broekhoff is not the greatest player in Horizon - no, Indiana college basketball - history, they'd go crazy. They think everybody else cheats (they even accuse Detroit statisticians of cheating to boost Ray's stats). But when Bobby Capobianco mugs Doug Anderson on an open dunk, they call that the play of the game and argue he should get a standing ovation at the next home game. They've got zero sense of proportion - especially where UD is concerned. They are constantly outraged when the Titans win big that we didn't play the bench more, while the fans of the teams we've beaten see it as part of the game. But when the bench does play, they are outraged when they score points. They are currently in high dudgeon over the Titans leaving a couple starters in the CSU game to help Jason get his 1000th point at home. It's not just toward UD - though they hate us most of all - but toward pretty much every team in the Horizon, not to mention Butler. There seem to be a few level headed folks there, but for the most part they really come across as a bunch of, well, pompous hayseeds.
Anderson wasn't mugged by Bobby, as it has been mentioned very often. Even if it was the other way around and Anderson did the same thing to Bobby, I would not call that a flagrant. It was a hard foul because of the situation Anderson created in stopping to do a showboat dunk, and Bobby not having quick enough reflexes to change where he was swatting. Any level-headed person would see it as such a thing.
Rowdy is the best overall player in the HL, hands-down. No one thinks he is the greatest player in Indiana college basketball history. That poster needs to quit being such a drama queen.
In regards to running up the score, do you truly think that the fans of the other conference teams 'see it as part of the game??' What a moron to say such a thing. Any athletic fan who has played any sport in their history knows that their are unspoken rules in regards to running up the score with your starters once you have a large lead. If you do it with your bench guys who rarely play, then fine, that is one thing. It is a COMPLETELY different situation to keep your starting five out there for 35-36 minutes when the game has been at 20-30 points for 10-15 minutes. You will notice that when we get this big of a lead, Bryce takes out several of his starters to rotate the lineups until the end of the game, never keeping but 2 or 3 starters on the court at one time, due to our lack of having more than 9 guys able to play each game.
I think that we point out our team's deficiencies very often on here, as well as the positives of our group. Obviously, Buggs is a liability if teams sag off of him and he doesn't find another way to get to the basket. KVW can't shoot outside of an 8-10 foot area on a consistent basis, Rowdy can struggle to create his own shot at times, Bobby can be quicker to the basket, etc. Any casual fan would take Valpo's lineup over Detroit's, any given day of the week. This is why Detroit will lose on Saturday, as they are not a team, but a bunch of individuals.
The one thing he did get correct is that we hate them most of the HL teams :thumbsup:
I'm not quite sure what they mean by "pompous hayseeds". It as an evocative phrase - I'll give them that. I'm not sure I've ever been compared to some sort of country bumpkin before! Perhaps it's a part of the Hoosier experience that I should get used to.
They do, perhaps, have a point here:
Quote from: jloose128 on February 14, 2013, 11:54:50 AMThey're total homers
But, what would you expect for a fan message board? And, as he admitted, it's not unilateral.
A lot of the rest is sort of weird hyperbole. Rowdy's very good. One of the best players in Valpo history, probably. One of the best players in the Horizon League, currently. A very solid POY candidate - though I think many of us could admit that there are arguments to be made for others (or at least one other).
Best player in the history of the Horizon League? Huh?
I don't think I've even heard anyone argue that he should go to the NBA straight out of Valpo. (Though, with a tourney run, who knows!)
I am intrigued by the scorer's report. It should be pretty clear from video who made the assist on the alley-oop, no?
Quote from: truth219 on February 14, 2013, 11:22:28 AM
Hopefully a few hundred come and buy tix on game day...as of right now there are plenty of seats available. Nothing like when butler would come to town
One big difference is Butler used to bring a ton of fans, making sellouts pretty easy. I did a quick count of rows last night. It looked like there were about a thousand seats still available. Between advance sales today and tomorrow, and (hopefully) heavy game time sales on Sat., I'm guessing we will still be close to a sellout. I'm also picturing an overflow student section with students standing on the track due to lack of student section seating. Add in the intangibles and subplots - national TV, battle of good vs. evil, payback for the McCallum dunk, 313, etc. - and the atmosphere should be electric. I cannot wait!
Quote from: valpotx on February 14, 2013, 12:18:44 PMAnderson wasn't mugged by Bobby, as it has been mentioned very often. Even if it was the other way around and Anderson did the same thing to Bobby, I would not call that a flagrant. It was a hard foul because of the situation Anderson created in stopping to do a showboat dunk, and Bobby not having quick enough reflexes to change where he was swatting. Any level-headed person would see it as such a thing.
I saw it the same way. No showboat and Bobby has a chance to get that ball. Good hustle on his part.
Although I don't agree completely with what the detroit fan posted, I will say there are times where this board focuses to much attention on the wrong decisions or things other coaches/players say or perform. If you don't like the way ray coaches that's fine, or what waters said after the csu game. But really it has no effect on valpo. I think it would be nice if we were as tough on our own team as we are on otheres. For instance, I like what waters said after the game. Bryce drew is so vanilla and so is the rest of the coaching staff. They never say anything out of the usual after a bad loss. I just wish he showed more personality when we lose then the same ol let's get them next time. As for rowdy, he is good but so are other players in the conference. Is he the best, well that's hard to say. The next few weeks will determine that. Rowdy has been streaky this year and a lot of our role players have helped us get to where we are. It hasn't been a one man show. We should win out the rest of the season. Regaurdless of the already mentioned reason why we could lose. Let's face the fact we have the most mature/talented team. Good teams find a way to win at home or on the road the clunkers are behind us.
Quote from: jloose128 on February 14, 2013, 11:54:50 AM
Another wonderful post on the Detroit message board:
As for Valpo, I read the other teams' message boards from time to time, mainly before doing game previews but now and then other times, too. It's hard to hate or even dislike Valpo, a small, private, Lutheran school (I teach at a small, private Lutheran school) with high standards, and a group of players who seem to be really good kids who work hard.
But the fans on their message board are the worst in the Horizon, and sure make me want to hate them. As someone on the Youngstown board summed them up, "a bunch of pompous hayseeds." They're total homers, with zero ability to recognize their team's deficiencies or other team's pluses, like they've never seen a game outside of Valparaiso. They've got this huge chip on their shoulders about "respect." You sense that if you were to note that Ryan Broekhoff is not the greatest player in Horizon - no, Indiana college basketball - history, they'd go crazy. They think everybody else cheats (they even accuse Detroit statisticians of cheating to boost Ray's stats). But when Bobby Capobianco mugs Doug Anderson on an open dunk, they call that the play of the game and argue he should get a standing ovation at the next home game. They've got zero sense of proportion - especially where UD is concerned. They are constantly outraged when the Titans win big that we didn't play the bench more, while the fans of the teams we've beaten see it as part of the game. But when the bench does play, they are outraged when they score points. They are currently in high dudgeon over the Titans leaving a couple starters in the CSU game to help Jason get his 1000th point at home. It's not just toward UD - though they hate us most of all - but toward pretty much every team in the Horizon, not to mention Butler. There seem to be a few level headed folks there, but for the most part they really come across as a bunch of, well, pompous hayseeds.
The Detroit fan diatribe aside, what I really find humorous is the reference to a comment from the YSU board. They usually go about 5 days between posts over there. Why waste a rare post talking about Valpo fans? :)
Feel the hatred flow! We must be doing something right ;)
Seriously though, I could see us being uppity in the eyes of the rest of the league (Especially since we are, indeed, highly educated individuals 8) Careful wh, words like "diatribe" will send them to urban dictionary). Gee, am I now contributing to the pomp? But again, it's an online message board for fans of a specific team, would one expect otherwise?
Let's see what claims the Detroit fan is making:
1. We believe Rowdy is the best player in the Horizon league. Well, he was the league's Player of the Year last year; he has been the league's Player of the Week 4 times this year; he is currently the leading candidate to repeat as Player of the Year in the league; he was named the best Mid-Major player in the nation at mid-season. Okay, you got us: we're guilty of believing he is the best player in the Horizon League!
2. We applauded Bobby for hustling to catch a Detroit player who was about to try a windmill dunk to embarrass the Valpo team but was too obsessed with his own theatrics to realize he could be caught from behind and that he caused the collision to be harder because of his pulling the ball back for the windmill. Okay, guilty again!
3. We find the way Detroit runs up the score on opponents by leaving in their starters and keeping their feet on the gas even when they have a 30+ point lead and less than 3 minutes remain in the game is inexcusable, especially when it seems they are doing so to stuff stats. Okay, we believe in displaying class in victory as well as defeat, which also means we don't like a player dunking at the buzzer of a championship game when everyone else had begun to walk off the floor and shake hands. Guilty once more!
4. We are called "pompous hayseeds," i guess because we have a different set of standards, including one that doesn't allow us to criminally vandalize the neighborhood of our opponent. Proudly guilty!
Quote from: valpopal on February 14, 2013, 12:56:23 PM
Let's see what claims the Detroit fan is making:
1. We believe Rowdy is the best player in the Horizon league. Well, he was the league's Player of the Year last year; he has been the league's Player of the Week 4 times this year; he is currently the leading candidate to repeat as Player of the Year in the league; he was named the best Mid-Major player in the nation at mid-season. Okay, you got us: we're guilty of believing he is the best player in the Horizon League!
2. We applauded Bobby for hustling to catch a Detroit player who was about to try a windmill dunk to embarrass the Valpo team but was too obsessed with his own theatrics to realize he could be caught from behind and that he caused the collision to be harder because of his pulling the ball back for the windmill. Okay, guilty again!
3. We find the way Detroit runs up the score on opponents by leaving in their starters and keeping their feet on the gas even when they have a 30+ point lead and less than 3 minutes remain in the game is inexcusable, especially when it seems they are doing so to stuff stats. Okay, we believe in displaying class in victory as well as defeat, which also means we don't like a player dunking at the buzzer of a championship game when everyone else had begun to walk off the floor and shake hands. Guilty once more!
4. We are called "pompous hayseeds," i guess because we have a different set of standards, including one that doesn't allow us to criminally vandalize the neighborhood of our opponent. Proudly guilty!
Pompous hayseeds! Love it. Well see how they feel when their graduates are working for our graduates! ;) Oh, and their former President is now a Vice President at Valpo! ;D Let's settle this on the court!
Quote from: jloose128 on February 14, 2013, 11:54:50 AM
As for Valpo, I read the other teams' message boards from time to time, mainly before doing game previews but now and then other times, too. It's hard to hate or even dislike Valpo, a small, private, Lutheran school (I teach at a small, private Lutheran school) with high standards, and a group of players who seem to be really good kids who work hard.
But the fans on their message board are the worst in the Horizon, and sure make me want to hate them. As someone on the Youngstown board summed them up, "a bunch of pompous hayseeds." They're total homers, with zero ability to recognize their team's deficiencies or other team's pluses, like they've never seen a game outside of Valparaiso. They've got this huge chip on their shoulders about "respect." You sense that if you were to note that Ryan Broekhoff is not the greatest player in Horizon - no, Indiana college basketball - history, they'd go crazy. They think everybody else cheats (they even accuse Detroit statisticians of cheating to boost Ray's stats). But when Bobby Capobianco mugs Doug Anderson on an open dunk, they call that the play of the game and argue he should get a standing ovation at the next home game. They've got zero sense of proportion - especially where UD is concerned. They are constantly outraged when the Titans win big that we didn't play the bench more, while the fans of the teams we've beaten see it as part of the game. But when the bench does play, they are outraged when they score points. They are currently in high dudgeon over the Titans leaving a couple starters in the CSU game to help Jason get his 1000th point at home. It's not just toward UD - though they hate us most of all - but toward pretty much every team in the Horizon, not to mention Butler. There seem to be a few level headed folks there, but for the most part they really come across as a bunch of, well, pompous hayseeds.
I have been waiting for well over a year to use this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M#)
I'd rather be in the position where I can be pompous about my school, rather than embarrassed that students of my school found it necessary to write an area code on the doors of some random nearby apartment buildings.
A real good current interview with Ryan Broekhoff on the Horizon League website. Easy to see why the Detroit fan says we have good kids.
Hey Detroit:
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQbmS51S4_JB4Y3SfVV7PXJVhgUQZznIPnC4jVzMnB9EC3XaACU)
Quote from: vu72 on February 14, 2013, 01:11:27 PMPompous hayseeds! Love it. Well see how they feel when their graduates are working for our graduates! Oh, and their former President is now a Vice President at Valpo! Let's settle this on the court!
Not to mention that our endowment is five times larger than UDM
Quote from: jloose128 on February 14, 2013, 11:54:50 AMThey're total homers, with zero ability to recognize their team's deficiencies or other team's pluses, like they've never seen a game outside of Valparaiso. They've got this huge chip on their shoulders about "respect." You sense that if you were to note that Ryan Broekhoff is not the greatest player in Horizon - no, Indiana college basketball - history, they'd go crazy. They think everybody else cheats (they even accuse Detroit statisticians of cheating to boost Ray's stats).
I can't disagree with everything he states in his post. There are always a wide variety of different kinds of posters on all message boards. I tend to think many on this board go overboard criticizing Detroit for their running up the score. We don't need all the posts that have continually mentioned it. I believe it's somehow retribution for when Detroit beat Valpo at the ARC in last year's HL championship game by 20 and Ray McCallum decided to rub it in Valpo fans' collective faces by dunking on the last play of the game and the graffitti that was sprayed on some Valpo homes.
Quote from: bbtds on February 14, 2013, 01:56:48 PM
Quote from: jloose128 on February 14, 2013, 11:54:50 AMThey're total homers, with zero ability to recognize their team's deficiencies or other team's pluses, like they've never seen a game outside of Valparaiso. They've got this huge chip on their shoulders about "respect." You sense that if you were to note that Ryan Broekhoff is not the greatest player in Horizon - no, Indiana college basketball - history, they'd go crazy. They think everybody else cheats (they even accuse Detroit statisticians of cheating to boost Ray's stats).
I can't disagree with everything he states in his post. There are always a wide variety of different kinds of posters on all message boards. I tend to think many on this board go overboard criticizing Detroit for their running up the score. We don't need all the posts that have continually mentioned it. I believe it's somehow retribution for when Detroit beat Valpo at the ARC in last year's HL championship game by 20 and Ray McCallum decided to rub it in Valpo fans' collective faces by dunking on the last play of the game and the graffitti that was sprayed on some Valpo homes.
The problem is not that we keep bringing up something that happened once, the problem is they keep doing it.
Quote from: vu72 on February 14, 2013, 02:30:18 PMThe problem is not that we keep bringing up something that happened once, the problem is they keep doing it.
I don't see the difference. We aren't going to change anything anyway if we keep mentioning it no matter how many times they do it. All we have done is antagonize a teacher at a Lutheran school in the Detroit area and the other Titan fans.
Quote from: bbtds on February 14, 2013, 02:34:51 PM
Quote from: vu72 on February 14, 2013, 02:30:18 PMThe problem is not that we keep bringing up something that happened once, the problem is they keep doing it.
I don't see the difference. We aren't going to change anything anyway if we keep mentioning it no matter how many times they do it. All we have done is antagonize a teacher at a Lutheran school in the Detroit area and the other Titan fans.
You're being naive. The school teacher and his friends know full well that the team they support is everything we say they are. But, they have learned to turn their heads to it, rationalize it, support it, and finally embrace it - all for the sake of laying claim to a winning basketball program. They're only mad at us because every claim we make reminds them that they have compromised their collective value system. It's kind of pathetic, actually.
Quote from: bbtds on February 14, 2013, 02:34:51 PM
Quote from: vu72 on February 14, 2013, 02:30:18 PMThe problem is not that we keep bringing up something that happened once, the problem is they keep doing it.
I don't see the difference. We aren't going to change anything anyway if we keep mentioning it no matter how many times they do it. All we have done is antagonize a teacher at a Lutheran school in the Detroit area and the other Titan fans.
This board would be pretty deserted if we only mentioned things once ;)
85 posts (and over 1000 hits) on the game thread and we're still 25+ hours from game time.
Yeah, I'd say this is a rivalry game.
Now, let's handle the rest of this thread the Valpo way. Pull our 5 starters (valpotx, vu72, agibson, valporun, and HC) and let wh finish this off so he can get to the 1000-post level at home against Detroit.
LEGEN
wait for it
Quote from: wh on February 14, 2013, 02:57:46 PMThey're only mad at us because every claim we make reminds them that they have compromised their collective value system.
I've definitely wondered about this before. Over here, we definitely seem to have some sort of Luke Skywalker + Obi Wan against Darth Vader and the Emperor, or some such, narrative going on. Clearly a good guys vs. bad guys sort of vibe.
What does this feel like from the other side? I really want a Jimmy Stewart sort of experience to help figure this out.
For example, I think we _are_ perceived as very physical, probably overly physical, sometimes thuggish. And, man, KVW can definitely fight for position down low. Bobby has his moments as well.
Do they see us getting all the calls because we're the top ranked team, because we have all-league, players?
With Scott now down at Baylor we've had a better look at what others can think about a Drew (sketchy recruiting tactics, etc.). I really wonder what we look like to the rest of the league.
And, I wonder who's got the right narrative. (Of course, there's not usually a simple answer to this question.)
Quote from: valpotx on February 14, 2013, 03:23:33 PM
Quote from: bbtds on February 14, 2013, 02:34:51 PM
Quote from: vu72 on February 14, 2013, 02:30:18 PMThe problem is not that we keep bringing up something that happened once, the problem is they keep doing it.
I don't see the difference. We aren't going to change anything anyway if we keep mentioning it no matter how many times they do it. All we have done is antagonize a teacher at a Lutheran school in the Detroit area and the other Titan fans.
This board would be pretty deserted if we only mentioned things once ;)
Yeah, pretty much every thread mentions at least once that UDM is comprised of scummy people, as well as other reoccurring topics like conference realignment, Butler, and what our RPI would be if various teams win or lose.
At least Bugg's horrible free throw shooting has been less of a hot-button issue than it was last year.
Quote from: chef on February 14, 2013, 01:26:23 PMA real good current interview with Ryan Broekhoff on the Horizon League website. Easy to see why the Detroit fan says we have good kids.
I think this link works
Broekhoff Interview on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/59601552)
Or, as most of you have probably seen, it's on the HL home page at the moment.
Quote from: valpotx on February 14, 2013, 03:23:33 PM
Quote from: bbtds on February 14, 2013, 02:34:51 PM
Quote from: vu72 on February 14, 2013, 02:30:18 PMThe problem is not that we keep bringing up something that happened once, the problem is they keep doing it.
I don't see the difference. We aren't going to change anything anyway if we keep mentioning it no matter how many times they do it. All we have done is antagonize a teacher at a Lutheran school in the Detroit area and the other Titan fans.
This board would be pretty deserted if we only mentioned things once ;)
The board's half as busy when Apostle goes on vacation and doesn't post. I do see what you mean though.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on February 14, 2013, 03:38:16 PM
85 posts (and over 1000 hits) on the game thread and we're still 25+ hours from game time.
Yeah, I'd say this is a rivalry game.
Now, let's handle the rest of this thread the Valpo way. Pull our 5 starters (valpotx, vu72, agibson, valporun, and HC) and let wh finish this off so he can get to the 1000-post level at home against Detroit.
LEGEN
wait for it
Given the topic, I'll try to make each one a bone-jarring, rim-rattling, crowd-pleasing "slam." ;)
Sweet made the starting lineup! My internet has not been connected at my new house, hopefully today...hopefully my production will bounce back quickly.
Anyways, I'll take Valpo to win this one by 15. :thumbsup:
Tickets don't appear to selling very well. Not sure why that would be, given the importance of this game.
Paul
Quote from: 78crusader on February 14, 2013, 04:53:51 PM
Tickets don't appear to selling very well. Not sure why that would be, given the importance of this game.
Paul
Details?
This post seems contrary to what has been already said in this thread.
I'm just going by the VU athletics website, where you can click on tickets and then see section by section what seats remain for sale. The upper deck is not anywhere close to being full. Last year when I bought two tickets for the Butler game I could hardly buy a decent seat. I realize that was Butler and this is Detroit, but still...this is a big game.
Paul
Maybe Section EE can answer this, but how many rows (what letter does it end at) in the upper deck. I can't find a seat by seat chart so can't really tell how many tickets have been sold, but to get four together in CC (presumably the best seats--center court, you have to go up to row SS.
Any idea what's up with coleman...no mins last game...I don't buy the match up thing either...
Quote from: bbtds on February 14, 2013, 04:14:58 PMThe board's half as busy when Apostle goes on vacation and doesn't post.
look, dude, i'm sorry you're not in the starting five. but you're the first off the bench, although with your work updating the opponent's scoreboard, and HC's relative lack of performance lately, you're just 5 posts away from a starter's spot. wh is in the 7-man rotation, and after that, it's
--valpopal
--weathernerd
--Stl
--yours truly
--#62
--covufan is the last of the 13 scholarship players.
then the walk-ons would start with milanmiracle, which...anyone seen him lately?
Quote from: truth219 on February 14, 2013, 06:24:05 PM
Any idea what's up with coleman...no mins last game...I don't buy the match up thing either...
Its quite crowded in the front court. While I believe we'd be best off starting Buggs-Kenney-Boggs with Coleman and Dority first off the bench and Bogan being a situational defender and 3pt specialist. I'm probably in a minority here thinking that.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on February 14, 2013, 03:38:16 PM
85 posts (and over 1000 hits) on the game thread and we're still 25+ hours from game time.
Yeah, I'd say this is a rivalry game.
Now, let's handle the rest of this thread the Valpo way. Pull our 5 starters (valpotx, vu72, agibson, valporun, and HC) and let wh finish this off so he can get to the 1000-post level at home against Detroit.
LEGEN
wait for it
Sorry, I'm a little slow today
DARY!!!!!!!
Legen mir bitte. (when I actually checked the translation it means "Add me please.")
Actually, I was going to wait until WH hit the "legend" mark and then post something like
(http://globial.com/globialtalksbusiness/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/dairy-products.jpg)
but last time i posted funny images images I thought were funny it wasn't really understood, so thanks for saving me that :)
The students might still be waiting for the big Butler game.
Quote from: vu72 on February 14, 2013, 06:09:16 PM
Maybe Section EE can answer this, but how many rows (what letter does it end at) in the upper deck. I can't find a seat by seat chart so can't really tell how many tickets have been sold, but to get four together in CC (presumably the best seats--center court, you have to go up to row SS.
You can get the map if you click on the sections, in the graphic at
http://www.etix.com/ticket/online/performanceSearch.jsp?performance_id=1656602&cobrand=valpo (http://www.etix.com/ticket/online/performanceSearch.jsp?performance_id=1656602&cobrand=valpo)
(Detroit game, or any game, default choice of selecting by "seating chart").
It goes to ZZ, for 24 rows (no II, no OO).
Maybe not too many have sold in BB or DD in the last ten hours. But, CC continues to fill in.
And, in the 24 hours before that, all three mezzanine sections were filling it.
I don't think it'll sell out in advance (indeed, I'm rather hoping I can get a seat in AA walk-up). But, I won't be at all surprised if it's recorded as a sell out on the day of.
Quote from: agibson on February 14, 2013, 12:22:42 PMI'm not quite sure what they mean by "pompous hayseeds". It as an evocative phrase - I'll give them that. I'm not sure I've ever been compared to some sort of country bumpkin before! Perhaps it's a part of the Hoosier experience that I should get used to.
As one of the few dirt under the nails true nothwest Indiana "country bumkins" on this message board, I kind of resent being lumped in with all you white collar, multiple degree types. This guilt by association could unnecessarily give all of us true "hayseeds" a bad name. :)
What does "pompous" mean anyway? ???
Quote from: agibson on February 14, 2013, 08:30:12 PM
Quote from: vu72 on February 14, 2013, 06:09:16 PM
Maybe Section EE can answer this, but how many rows (what letter does it end at) in the upper deck. I can't find a seat by seat chart so can't really tell how many tickets have been sold, but to get four together in CC (presumably the best seats--center court, you have to go up to row SS.
You can get the map if you click on the sections, in the graphic at
http://www.etix.com/ticket/online/performanceSearch.jsp?performance_id=1656602&cobrand=valpo (http://www.etix.com/ticket/online/performanceSearch.jsp?performance_id=1656602&cobrand=valpo)
(Detroit game, or any game, default choice of selecting by "seating chart").
It goes to ZZ, for 24 rows (no II, no OO).
Maybe not too many have sold in BB or DD in the last ten hours. But, CC continues to fill in.
And, in the 24 hours before that, all three mezzanine sections were filling it.
I don't think it'll sell out in advance (indeed, I'm rather hoping I can get a seat in AA walk-up). But, I won't be at all surprised if it's recorded as a sell out on the day of.
Thanks! I knew there was a way. I count them up and give a full report in the am!!
i do have to give the guy props for correct usage and spelling of the word "dudgeon" (no, I won't make a "dragon" pun here).
it must be that "pathfinder" guy who's always on here. wonder what his SN on their board is..."pathfound"? "capomustdie"? "carlosbriggs02"?
The latest award for Ryan and a great interview here:
Broekhoff Interview on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/59601552)
Heavens, a few hyper-fanatical Titan fans hate us more than anything in the world. You could say the same thing about a few hyper-fanatical ORU fans back in the day.
If those few fans think we're not used to this, they're crazy. Meanwhile, I'm going to guess that the majority of fans over there are far more rational.
For the record, the only anger I have is for the vandals from last March, whoever the hell they are. My reaction to the showboating and the rubbing salt in the wound is not anger but disappointment. I'll leave anger to Matt Kenney, Erik Buggs, Ryan Broekhoff, Kevin Van Wijk, Bryce Drew, and anybody else who chooses to be. They were the ones that got punked on National TV.
My comment has always been this: why give other teams reason to hate you for very little return. Ray-Ray, you engaged in a high-risk, low-reward tactic last March. What, 70-50 with an exclamation-point, look-at-me dunk is somehow worth more in the grand scheme of things than a 68-50 respectful beating that brings mostly expressions of grudging admiration? Really??? For one moment of pure ecstasy that is now gone, you bought yourself a year or two of animosity likely to play out on the court. Yeah, that sounds like a great trade to me. Meanwhile the HL streak of 7 straight years with at least one NCAA win is over without much more than a whimper. I don't blame you for losing to Kansas, but forgive me for thinking you were still so hyped up over winning the tourney that you weren't quite ready to take on the Jayhawks (mentally, at least).
P.S. The dunk wasn't even shown on TV, so you can't watch it over and over again and revel in it. Even ESPN's cameraman was expecting the respectful handshake line to begin. In short, it was what we like to call a "cheap thrill".
P.P.S. The one thing that worries me is that he might think he's getting more reward out of it: he *needs* enemies, and he *thrives* on being the bad guy. And they might continue to be a handful and a half. They might figure out whatever it was that got them all discombobulated in January. And you can bet they're going to take out their aggression on Bobby whenever they see an opportunity to. They have succeeded in casting themselves as the victim, and there's no guarantee that isn't the fuel they need. Nick Minnerath is a beast, by the way. It's not my thing to rank players, but he's scary. In short, I have no idea what's going to happen on Saturday. I only know I will be there to see it. I do feel confident that the Crusaders will be prepared for the challenge both Saturday and in March.
Isn't Bryce the best player in Indiana college history.... (SI) and we haven't even picked on Ray Sr lately.
Can't wait to see this one in person Saturday.
An interesting article from the Detroit newspaper regarding the Catholic 7 and UMD's desire to join. Of course it mentions Valpo and also has quotes from Ray Sr.
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130215/OPINION03/302150339/-Catholic-Seven-move-would-benefit-Detroit-resources-lacking?odyssey=tab (http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130215/OPINION03/302150339/-Catholic-Seven-move-would-benefit-Detroit-resources-lacking?odyssey=tab)|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE
I'd just like to comment very quickly on this whole thread...
I love how we still have more than 24 hours til game time and we've got five pages going on six pages in this thread. Love the quantity and quality of discussion thus far!
Gonna be hanging out in Valpo today. Wish I could stay for the game but I have work Saturday afternoon. I'll be watching on ESPN2 and cheering my best. See the rest of you in the chat room! 219 > 313
this thread is why i love this board. and i'm friggin pumped for this game. trying to talk typhoon into coming over and watching it, but we'll see. i'll be watching regardless.
as for that detroit fan's post, i can see where they might be coming from with some of it. i do wonder sometimes if we aren't a little bit 'holier than thou' in our mentality. perhaps even slightly hypocritical. the students love running up the score. we used to get pissed when we didn't break 100, even if we were playing someone like st. joes or purdue cal and won by 35. as for the poy comments - he's got no beef. nobody in their right mind is saying jr's better than rowdy this year. except maybe sr to inflate his kid's ego. last year, the comparison was closer - this year those critics have no ammo.
now for the game itself - gonna be back and forth, and physical as hell. cheap shots may well be the norm instead of the exception, and possibly on both sides. refs are gonna need to understand the recent history between these two. call it tight, and don't be afraid to use the technical if necessary. detroit's gonna be looking for some revenge after choking away their massive lead and losing at their place, but we've got better ft shooters, and in the end, i'm looking for about a 10 point win on the strength of valpo fts closing it out. valpo 84-75
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 15, 2013, 06:56:52 AM
An interesting article from the Detroit newspaper regarding the Catholic 7 and UMD's desire to join. Of course it mentions Valpo and also has quotes from Ray Sr.
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130215/OPINION03/302150339/-Catholic-Seven-move-would-benefit-Detroit-resources-lacking?odyssey=tab (http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130215/OPINION03/302150339/-Catholic-Seven-move-would-benefit-Detroit-resources-lacking?odyssey=tab)|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE
I would have to say that Valparaiso has more name recognition than the University of Detroit on a national scale. Even though their school has 'Detroit' in it, most anyone I speak to has no clue that there is a university named after the city. They at least know of Valpo and our 'Shot,' if they know nothing else.
In regards to the C-7, HAHAHAHAHA, Detroit, you have to do something first, and you haven't in YEARS! This writer is just stupid: 'One phone call is all it takes to change the Titans?' Is he just trying to fill the page? One phone call and these schools LAUGH at you as well.
Quote from: valpotx on February 15, 2013, 09:56:03 AM
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 15, 2013, 06:56:52 AM
An interesting article from the Detroit newspaper regarding the Catholic 7 and UMD's desire to join. Of course it mentions Valpo and also has quotes from Ray Sr.
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130215/OPINION03/302150339/-Catholic-Seven-move-would-benefit-Detroit-resources-lacking?odyssey=tab (http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130215/OPINION03/302150339/-Catholic-Seven-move-would-benefit-Detroit-resources-lacking?odyssey=tab)|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE
I would have to say that Valparaiso has more name recognition than the University of Detroit on a national scale. Even though their school has 'Detroit' in it, most anyone I speak to has no clue that there is a university named after the city. They at least know of Valpo and our 'Shot,' if they know nothing else.
In regards to the C-7, HAHAHAHAHA, Detroit, you have to do something first, and you haven't in YEARS! This writer is just stupid: 'One phone call is all it takes to change the Titans?' Is he just trying to fill the page? One phone call and these schools LAUGH at you as well.
The Catholics did a very good job of grabing the city name for their universities. St. Louis, Detroit, Dallas, San Francisco, San Diego, Boston, Dayton, etc., etc. etc.
Quote from: valpotx on February 15, 2013, 09:56:03 AMIn regards to the C-7, HAHAHAHAHA, Detroit, you have to do something first, and you haven't in YEARS! This writer is just stupid: 'One phone call is all it takes to change the Titans?' Is he just trying to fill the page? One phone call and these schools LAUGH at you as well.
I wasn't quite sure what he meant. I assumed _not_ a phone call _from_ Detroit.
Maybe one phone call from the proto-commissioner of the C-7?
One phone call from a wealthy donor to endow the basketball program enough to take it to that hypothetical next level?
wh, on your trek to 1,000 posts, be careful that someone like motowntitan doesn't come along, and put in a flagrant foul on your quest for that "slam" post in this thread. :lol: :thumbsup:
In terms of the article, Detroit, as a market, would be a fit in the C7, based more on religious qualification (certainly not values/morals/ethics), but after Jr. leaves, what do the Titans have as basketball pull to get excited about playing Marquette, DePaul, Georgetown, St. John's, and the leftovers of the "Conference Formerly Known as 'Relevant only during Conference Tournament Week', the Big Least"? I don't see anything about Detroit Titan basketball post-Ray Jr. that screams deserving of a spot in a conference with a big boy table. Honestly, will Detroit have anything worthy of being in the C7, as more than the doormat in 5 years? Think about it, Valpo left the Summit League for monetary purposes, not because we felt that we were better than everyone else. Detroit is getting caught up in a "Butler Complex" right now, where they think they'll be the next Butler, but they don't exactly have the name or ability to be seen outside of the greater Detroit area, if the greater Detroit area is even looking...
Detroit seems too unstable for an immediate invitation to the C7. Their best player is leaving this year (or at least after next year), and it's not like they have an NBA caliber player in the works. They have a new AD who may or may not get Sr out the door, and assistants have been dropping out of the program. They aren't dominating Horizon League play (this year, or any previous year) in a way that Butler did.
But maybe the C7 is looking a just big markets, and they hope that a C7 program in itself will drive recruits to Detroit. I'm not quite buying it.
And no, I'm not arguing Valpo should ever get invited to this C7.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on February 14, 2013, 06:44:33 PMlook, dude, i'm sorry you're not in the starting five. but you're the first off the bench, although with your work updating the opponent's scoreboard, and HC's relative lack of performance lately, you're just 5 posts away from a starter's spot. wh is in the 7-man rotation, and after that, it's
--valpopal
--weathernerd
--Stl
--yours truly
--#62
--covufan is the last of the 13 scholarship players.
then the walk-ons would start with milanmiracle, which...anyone seen him lately?
Just got a return PM from milan to assure us that he is fine, is staying in top shape, and will be ready to rejoin the team just as soon as he gets a chance to catch his breath.
Quote from: justducky on February 15, 2013, 12:49:29 PMJust got a return PM from milan to assure us that he is fine, is staying in top shape, and will be ready to rejoin the team just as soon as he gets a chance to catch his breath.
Oh good to know. He'll be back up to game-speed in no time.
And bbtds is just one post behind HC now for top 5. Like Bryce--we keep 'em guessing as to who the starting 5'll be :)
Quote from: agibson on February 12, 2013, 08:52:17 PMI wonder if they'll do anything for faculty+staff+students, like they used to do with the Butler games - giving out printed tickets in advance, instead of just walking in.
Sounds like it's only slightly special. No upgrades or discounts, like I guess are available for other games. But, it's just walk up and show your ID for sections AA and EE - as it is for other games. (For Butler they would print and distribute tickets in advance for Section AA and EE.)
Looks like advanced ticket sales, overall, are slowing down a bit. Those front court seats did go. A small block in section A (behind the Crusader bench) opened up. A few other singles downstairs - otherwise you're well up in the mezzanine in BB, CC, or DD.
Seems like there will likely be a couple of hundred tickets for sale at the door - we'll see. Hopefully, by game time, a full house! I expect it will be.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on February 15, 2013, 02:20:42 PMAnd bbtds is just one post behind HC now for top 5. Like Bryce--we keep 'em guessing as to who the starting 5'll be :)
I hadn't checked _those_ stats in ages. I'm pleased to see TX has me beat by a comfortable margin - and with baseball season just getting started.
I can handle top 5 or top 10. Number one overall? I think I'd be pretty nervous.
I apparently just get on and post a bunch, and then sign-off. I'm not even in the top 10 for time online
Just checked and there are 6 seats available in the lower level, all individual. Upper deck has 427 available but they have EE and AA listed as unavailable but we know that isn't true. They may be the elast attractive but still I'm going to guess another 200 in each for roughly 850 seats to be filled.
Got my Internet finally back at e new house! Thinking about giving away a piece of the old ARC court...what do you guys think?
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on February 15, 2013, 02:20:42 PM
Quote from: justducky on February 15, 2013, 12:49:29 PMJust got a return PM from milan to assure us that he is fine, is staying in top shape, and will be ready to rejoin the team just as soon as he gets a chance to catch his breath.
Oh good to know. He'll be back up to game-speed in no time.
And bbtds is just one post behind HC now for top 5. Like Bryce--we keep 'em guessing as to who the starting 5'll be :)
I kind of liked coming in off the bench as the 6th man and sparking the team. Oh, shoot, this means I might be in the starting line-up now. ;)
Hold the presses. HC has posted just above this post, :thumbsup: so thank God I'm still the 6th man.
Quote from: vu72 on February 15, 2013, 04:30:31 PMThey may be the elast attractive but still I'm going to guess another 200 in each for roughly 850 seats to be filled.
How do those sections (AA, EE) work? Can the general public buy a ticket there? Or is it strictly for folks with university ID's and courtesy cards, on a walk-in basis?
Quote from: agibson on February 15, 2013, 04:54:43 PM
Quote from: vu72 on February 15, 2013, 04:30:31 PMThey may be the elast attractive but still I'm going to guess another 200 in each for roughly 850 seats to be filled.
How do those sections (AA, EE) work? Can the general public buy a ticket there? Or is it strictly for folks with university ID's and courtesy cards, on a walk-in basis?
Good question. I suspect they are held out for the visitors and the people you mentioned and then released as the game approaches.
Quote from: vu72 on February 15, 2013, 05:30:48 PMGood question. I suspect they are held out for the visitors and the people you mentioned and then released as the game approaches.
But, with the exception of e.g. Butler last year, they don't even ticket them. If you've got the right credentials they just wave you in.
Maybe they're effectively general admission? So, once BB, CC, and DD sell out they might then sell additional general admission tickets? Good for a seat in AA or EE, if you can find one, or for the track, the bleachers by the concession stand, etc?
The NWI Times game day piece is up
http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/basketball/college/vu-men-face-detroit-with-chance-to-clinch-championship/article_bb023474-d648-58fd-b12b-9d636f649de2.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/basketball/college/vu-men-face-detroit-with-chance-to-clinch-championship/article_bb023474-d648-58fd-b12b-9d636f649de2.html)
Kudos to Paul for putting a human face on the evil empire! With quotes like
Quote
"We're looking up at Valpo right now and we understand that this is a great opportunity for us," Detroit coach Ray McCallum Sr. said. "This will be one of the best environments in college basketball for this game."
and
Quote
"All of the accolades that Broekhoff has received are ones that he's earned," McCallum Sr. said. "He makes the team better. If he needs to get 17 rebounds, he'll do that. If he needs to score 30, he can do that. He's important for us."
(OK - that one, ending the piece, is a bit of a non sequitur. He's important for us... to guard? To neutralize? To mitigate?)
All that said, Go Valpo! Beat Detroit! 219 > 313
Tickets still available, buy yours now!
Just looked outside, and its a beautiful day to #beatdetroit! :thumbsup:
I'd say about 600 seats left in BB, CC and DD at 9:30 am
Still quite a few seats. Can someone post the article from the times. Not the link but the actual article me phone is being difficult
Today is Visit Day for many high school seniors considering enrolling at Valpo in the fall. I hope some of them and their families get a chance to experience a great example of VU student spirit at the game tonight, and maybe a big win as well.
VU men face Detroit with chance to clinch championship
15 hours ago • Paul Oren Times Correspondent(0) Comments
Horizon League
Detroit (17-9, 9-4) at Valparaiso (20-6, 10-2)
When: 5 p.m. today.
Radio/TV/Internet: WAKE-AM (1500), WEFM-FM (95.9), WJOB-AM (1230)/ESPN2/valpoathletics.com.
Notes: The Crusaders have won six of their last seven meetings with the Titans, including an 89-88 come-from-behind victory at Calihan Hall earlier this season. ... Valparaiso can clinch at least a double bye in the Horizon League tournament with a win and could possibly clinch the right to host the tournament depending on other conference games this weekend. ... Valparaiso's Ryan Broekhoff has been named the Horizon League Player of the Week four times this season. He never won the award last year despite earning Player of the Year honors. -- Paul Oren
VALPARAISO | The last time Detroit was in the Athletics-Recreation Center, the Valparaiso men's basketball team failed in its bid to win a championship.
The Crusaders have another title on the line Saturday afternoon as Valparaiso can lock up at least a share of the Horizon League regular season championship and get one step closer to securing the right to host the conference tournament.
Standing in their way will be the Titans, Valparaiso's newest rival and perhaps toughest hurdle between the Crusaders and an NCAA tournament berth.
"We're looking up at Valpo right now and we understand that this is a great opportunity for us," Detroit coach Ray McCallum Sr. said. "This will be one of the best environments in college basketball for this game."
The Crusaders have a 10-4 record against Detroit since joining the Horizon League six years ago and have won six of the last seven games between the two squads. The one loss came when it hurt the most, a 70-50 defeat in last season's Horizon League title game, sending the Titans to the NCAA tournament.
"We had two championship teams battling each other on the floor that night," McCallum said. "Fortunately we played our best game of the season when it counted and we came out ahead."
Valparaiso's rivalry with Detroit stems just as much from conference tournament losses (The Crusaders were upset by the Titans in 2010) as it does from regular season wins. It's been more than three years since Valparaiso has lost to Detroit in the regular season and two of the wins at Calihan Hall have featured unbelievable heroics. Will Bogan connected on seven 3-pointers last season and Erik Buggs went coast-to-coast for a game-winning layup at the buzzer to win 73-71 last season.
The Crusaders trailed by 22 points in the second half at Detroit this season before rallying to score the final 12 points of the game and win 89-88.
"We had a great first half and then Valpo had a great second half," McCallum said. "It was a game that came down to the last possession. We had the ball and a chance to win."
Saturday's contest will feature a rematch of two of the best individual performances in the Horizon League this season. Detroit's Nick Minnerath had a career-high 36 points in the Jan. 17 loss to the Crusaders while Kevin Van Wijk added a career-high 31 points for Valparaiso.
The contest will also feature the two best players in the Horizon League. Reigning conference Player of the Year Ryan Broekhoff scored 18 points on just 10 shots against the Titans while Preseason Player of the Year Ray McCallum Jr. had just six points on 11 shots. McCallum led Detroit with 21 points in last season's Horizon League title game.
"All of the accolades that Broekhoff has received are ones that he's earned," McCallum Sr. said. "He makes the team better. If he needs to get 17 rebounds, he'll do that. If he needs to score 30, he can do that. He's important for us."
Valparaiso can clinch share of title with win against rival Detroit
By Michael Osipoff 648-3137 or mosipoff@post-trib.com February 15, 2013 11:28PM
The Big Number
Jordan Coleman played in every game but one this season. The junior guard didn't see the court on Tuesday at Wright State.
"It was an in-game decision," Crusaders coach Bryce Drew said. "The other players were playing well. We decided to go bigger, playing Bobby (Capobianco) a little more, playing him and Kevin (Van Wijk) together."
The Bonus
Ryan Broekhoff's mother and stepfather, Jo and Kevin Toebelman, arrived in town last week from Australia. They're staying nearby in a fully furnished two-bedroom apartment.
"They're here for about four more weeks, which is really great," Broekhoff said. "I've had a couple home-cooked meals, stuff like that you miss from home. I do a bit of cooking around the house, but it's just so nice to get some of Mom's cooking and kind of be taken care of again, and just get that sense of home and family again. It's really nice, and they came at a great time of the year.
"It's been really great having them in the stands, and being able to go out after the game and see family, as well as everyone else."
They attended the Crusaders' games at both Cleveland State and Wright State, remaining in Ohio in between. They last visited around this time during Broekhoff's sophomore season, along with his brother, Daniel.
"A lot's changed since then. We're in a good position now, and hopefully we can keep building on it," Broekhoff said.
Updated: February 16, 2013 2:01AM
VALPARAISO — When last these teams played at the Athletics-Recreation Center, Ray McCallum was dunking to punctuate Detroit's win over Valparaiso in last season's Horizon League Tournament championship game.
If the first-place Crusaders defeat the second-place Titans on Saturday night at the ARC, they will be on the verge of forcing Detroit — or any other league opponent — to again have to beat them on their home floor in the league tournament to deny them a trip the NCAA Tournament. A win would clinch at least a share of the regular-season conference title for Valparaiso (20-6, 10-2 Horizon League), oh-so-close to guaranteeing it would host the league tournament. With both Youngstown State (against Milwaukee) and Green Bay (at Cleveland State) both winning on Friday night, the Crusaders, even with a win against the Titans (17-9, 9-4), cannot clinch the outright title and be assured to host, though they could reduce their "magic number" to one.
"We're still pretty far away from what we really want to achieve, but it's a good feeling, because everybody worked so hard — coaches, staff, players," Kevin Van Wijk said. "Everyone has put extra time into our goals.
"A lot of guys have a lot of memories about them (the Titans), thoughts behind what this game means. I think the guys have a little more motivation, because it's called a rivalry — it kind of helps you get more motivated than you already are. There will be a great vibe in the building, and it's great to feel that."
The game will be televised by ESPN2, as part of "Rivalry Week." A sellout crowd was anticipated at the ARC.
"You try to approach each game the same," Ryan Broekhoff said. "But tomorrow, when the ARC is packed out and the environment's really good, all of us will get a little more adrenaline and a little more excitement through us than maybe another game.
One of the Titans' big men on the bench, Lippert, has tweeted that he didn't make the trip to Valpo but stayed behind in Detroit. I don't know the reason, and he usually doesn't play much, but from his messages it doesn't sound like an injury. If the refs call a tight game, as expected, and players get in foul trouble, and if Detroit has one less big body on the bench, that could be a factor.
The line right now is Detroit -4 as a dog.
Here's a little preview I've whipped up for the occasion, it's essentially a repackaging of highlights from Youtube. Be nice, I only have windows movie maker to work with on this computer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WWrWQQAVUs# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WWrWQQAVUs#)
This post might piss some readers off. I was not going to post for a while because I felt bad that a Detroit fan thought poorly of valpo fans. However today I finally realized I don't care.
I call it as i see it.... He calls it as he sees it.... Chances are we are never going to agree - and an even bigger chance we would never really need to. We are fans of our teams. This is a fan site for valpo fans and I am not probably going to say things that an opponent's fan is going to love reading.
There is definitely a rivalry been these teams and I see no reason to appologize for that.
Quote from: govalpogo on February 16, 2013, 12:41:28 PM
Here's a little preview I've whipped up for the occasion, it's essentially a repackaging of highlights from Youtube. Be nice, I only have windows movie maker to work with on this computer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WWrWQQAVUs# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WWrWQQAVUs#)
Wow! Nicely done. :clap: :clap: :clap: Three cheers!!! And to think, I had a hard enough time just trying to get my columns straight on a recent post! ???
I believe Detroit has all the confidence in the world playing in our place. They came into our gym when it counted the most and beat the hell out of us. They are very athletic compared to us and we struggle against athletic teams. I feel we will be chasing them the whole game trying to take the lead. They force turnovers and we turn the ball over a ton even against average teams. Not a good combo.
One thing that irks me is does it really matter if Ray J dunked it in our faces at the end of the game? The whole second half they rubbed it in our faces so who cares about the end of the game dunk. Our collapse in the second half is more distrubing than that. The kid is young and he was headed to the NCAA tourney, he got excited. I do not take it as a slap in the face but as immaturity. The kid is a competitor and I'd love to have him at Valpo. Imagine how good he'd be if he didn't play for his dad.
Detroit 72 Valpo 65. I hope I'm wrong and our guys play the way they are supposed/expected/should play but we struggle in big games.
Quote from: valpopal on February 16, 2013, 12:09:59 PM
One of the Titans' big men on the bench, Lippert, has tweeted that he didn't make the trip to Valpo but stayed behind in Detroit. I don't know the reason, and he usually doesn't play much, but from his messages it doesn't sound like an injury. If the refs call a tight game, as expected, and players get in foul trouble, and if Detroit has one less big body on the bench, that could be a factor.
5 MPG, probably less in league play. Played two minutes against us - a rebound, a foul, shot 1-2, and got an "and one". Still, who knows? For want of a nail...
Quote from: valpopal on February 16, 2013, 10:23:02 AM
Today is Visit Day for many high school seniors considering enrolling at Valpo in the fall. I hope some of them and their families get a chance to experience a great example of VU student spirit at the game tonight, and maybe a big win as well.
I was at parts of the Christ College visit event today. It sounded like the game hadn't been previously mentioned. I talked it up a bit, and got a little polite interest, but no obvious takers.
Quote from: govalpogo on February 16, 2013, 12:41:28 PMHere's a little preview I've whipped up for the occasion
Awesome, man. thanks.
So enrollment staff doesn't see the game as a selling point? No wonder admissions plods along. Gaining but not dramatically
Quote from: crusadermoe on February 16, 2013, 03:27:10 PM
So enrollment staff doesn't see the game as a selling point? No wonder admissions plods along. Gaining but not dramatically
My perspective's fairly narrow - who knows, for other constituencies they may have promoted it. But, it seems not to have figured in the Christ College package.
Looks like about 480 seats still available. I would think walk-up sales will cover those. Getting ready to head out the door. Go Crusaders!
My daughter, who attends games occasionally, just texted me to say that she's already in line outside the ARC. If that's any indication, the student section should be packed.
Quote from: Chairback on February 16, 2013, 01:35:57 PM
I believe Detroit has all the confidence in the world playing in our place. They came into our gym when it counted the most and beat the hell out of us. They are very athletic compared to us and we struggle against athletic teams. I feel we will be chasing them the whole game trying to take the lead. They force turnovers and we turn the ball over a ton even against average teams. Not a good combo.
One thing that irks me is does it really matter if Ray J dunked it in our faces at the end of the game? The whole second half they rubbed it in our faces so who cares about the end of the game dunk. Our collapse in the second half is more distrubing than that. The kid is young and he was headed to the NCAA tourney, he got excited. I do not take it as a slap in the face but as immaturity. The kid is a competitor and I'd love to have him at Valpo. Imagine how good he'd be if he didn't play for his dad.
Detroit 72 Valpo 65. I hope I'm wrong and our guys play the way they are supposed/expected/should play but we struggle in big games.
So if they are so athletic and force turnovers etc, why did we win at THEIR place? You are underestimating Valpo and how good they have become over the last several games. We are coming into our own. Valpo wins 66-62
Quote from: govalpogo on February 16, 2013, 12:41:28 PMHere's a little preview I've whipped up for the occasion, it's essentially a repackaging of highlights from Youtube. Be nice, I only have windows movie maker to work with on this computer.
Very nice.
Could someone please ssk dority to stop forcing ugly shots...? Drive and dish or throw it back out...
First half in the books and couldn't have gone any better, unless you're truth ;)
let's blow 'em out in the second. enough drama in the last one to not need any tonight! :)
I could definitely do without drama in this game.
Uhh what the hell has happened?
17 turnovers against an average Detroit team. Absolutely no rebounding. Horrible defense with Detroit scoring in the paint at will. Ryan a non-factor so far. This game has highlighted Valpo's many weaknesses. We'll see who wins, but this is awful. If we were playing a top 30 team, we'd be blown out by now. Not a very good showing before a national audience -- Typical Valpo.
I've said it before and I will say it again....dority isn't a good point gaurd. He actually isn't good at much. Turns it over he can't finish at the hoop and forces the ball everytime. He has brought us down. Say what you will but he hasn't helped much
And the rivalry continues to build....dammit.
I guess it's better than losing at home in the conference championship game...
we choked. game management in the second half was absolutely terrible. that's the biggest problem bryce has, in my mind. but we really have to give credit to detroit for ramping up their defensive pressure when it mattered. they simply shut our offense down for over 6 minutes, and we couldn't respond with stops of our own. that said, those of you who live near campus need to go sit in your rocking chairs on your porches with a beer in one hand and a shotgun in the other, lest the vandals come back out.
Quote from: truth219 on February 16, 2013, 07:12:05 PM
I've said it before and I will say it again....dority isn't a good point gaurd. He actually isn't good at much. Turns it over he can't finish at the hoop and forces the ball everytime. He has brought us down. Say what you will but he hasn't helped much
Wow, I have defended you to many on this board, but then you go and make a comment like this and affirm what everyone says about you.
Cool Ranch is in his first half-season with the Saders...he's averaging double figures, very solid FT shooter, decent 3 pt shooter, turns the ball over less than Buggs, etc etc. We're 14-4 since he joined the squad, so I think he has helped out plenty and has not "brought us down."
Quote from: vuweathernerd on February 16, 2013, 07:24:23 PM
we choked. game management in the second half was absolutely terrible. that's the biggest problem bryce has, in my mind. but we really have to give credit to detroit for ramping up their defensive pressure when it mattered. they simply shut our offense down for over 6 minutes, and we couldn't respond with stops of our own. that said, those of you who live near campus need to go sit in your rocking chairs on your porches with a beer in one hand and a shotgun in the other, lest the vandals come back out.
It is legal to defend your home with a gun in TX, is it in IN? lol
Quote from: SadersofthelostArc on February 16, 2013, 07:27:42 PM
Quote from: truth219 on February 16, 2013, 07:12:05 PM
I've said it before and I will say it again....dority isn't a good point gaurd. He actually isn't good at much. Turns it over he can't finish at the hoop and forces the ball everytime. He has brought us down. Say what you will but he hasn't helped much
Wow, I have defended you to many on this board, but then you go and make a comment like this and affirm what everyone says about you.
Cool Ranch is in his first half-season with the Saders...he's averaging double figures, very solid FT shooter, decent 3 pt shooter, turns the ball over less than Buggs, etc etc. We're 14-4 since he joined the squad, so I think he has helped out plenty and has not "brought us down."
Dority has a lot of skill but he is impatient and forces things a bit too much. Needs to keep under control on the drive so he can do something with it. I think a couple times i saw Bryce "coaching" him... Dority is a good player - just seems like he drives and heaves it up or hopes for a foul.
All in all, this game won't matter in the end. We will still be the #1 seed, and all will be rectified come the rematch
Quote from: valpotx on February 16, 2013, 07:35:56 PM
Quote from: vuweathernerd on February 16, 2013, 07:24:23 PM
we choked. game management in the second half was absolutely terrible. that's the biggest problem bryce has, in my mind. but we really have to give credit to detroit for ramping up their defensive pressure when it mattered. they simply shut our offense down for over 6 minutes, and we couldn't respond with stops of our own. that said, those of you who live near campus need to go sit in your rocking chairs on your porches with a beer in one hand and a shotgun in the other, lest the vandals come back out.
It is legal to defend your home with a gun in TX, is it in IN? lol
no idea. don't live there anymore. but i don't see what the problem is if you're just sitting there on the porch. you're not actually brandishing it at anyone.
I was thinking - rather they beat us now and we win the next time....
Quote from: Smj on February 16, 2013, 07:37:25 PM
Quote from: SadersofthelostArc on February 16, 2013, 07:27:42 PM
Quote from: truth219 on February 16, 2013, 07:12:05 PM
I've said it before and I will say it again....dority isn't a good point gaurd. He actually isn't good at much. Turns it over he can't finish at the hoop and forces the ball everytime. He has brought us down. Say what you will but he hasn't helped much
Wow, I have defended you to many on this board, but then you go and make a comment like this and affirm what everyone says about you.
Cool Ranch is in his first half-season with the Saders...he's averaging double figures, very solid FT shooter, decent 3 pt shooter, turns the ball over less than Buggs, etc etc. We're 14-4 since he joined the squad, so I think he has helped out plenty and has not "brought us down."
Dority has a lot of skill but he is impatient and forces things a bit too much. Needs to keep under control on the drive so he can do something with it. I think a couple times i saw Bryce "coaching" him... Dority is a good player - just seems like he drives and heaves it up or hopes for a foul.
I don't disagree with this assessment. I disagree with the absurd notion that Dority has "brought us down" or is "not good at anything."
Frustrated for sure with that. Felt that with 10 minutes left we went into "play not to lose" mode instead of putting them away.
However, as the resident voice of reason (well, I'll think of myself that way anyways), we still are alone in first place and still control our own destiny for the title. Have to learn from it and get ready for Tuesday and take out the frustration of tonight and the first loss to Loyola on them then.
Quote from: SadersofthelostArc on February 16, 2013, 07:50:13 PM
I don't disagree with this assessment. I disagree with the absurd notion that Dority has "brought us down" or is "not good at anything."
I disagree with that as well....
HERE IS THE INTERESTING THING
Can you believe the parallels in this game to our last win over them.... Come back from a double digit deficit in the second half - after a flagrant foul call.....
Losing the 15 point lead from the 9 minute mark to 5 minute mark is definitely something new to see, but it has a lot to do with Bryce's unwillingness to step on the other team's throat when it is still not a blowout. Don't slow down what we have been doing, keep at it until you get to 20, then maybe you can slow it down.
I think we will beat Loyola on their turf, as they have been brought back to earth. We win at home against EKU and YSU, and hopefully, the game at GB won't matter. If WSU ends up in third, it won't matter what we do against GB, as we will hold the tiebreaker over Detroit in having swept them. In short, we want WSU to win the rest of their games, and us win the next 2 conference games, to secure the #1 seed.
No need to panic at all, as as long as we win the next 2 conference games, we should still be the champs, as we should be.
Ugh.....
Anyone know why Anderson sat all half? Or why Coleman seems to be in the doghouse?
I really liked how Detroit defended KVW and Ryan. I was hoping that the hot shooting of Matt and Will was going to be enough....too many TOs and they did a good job converting those into points. I'd love to see our guys stop jumping to pass the ball after they drive the lane and have nowhere to go.
side note: it was really nice meeting koala tonight.
2nd side note: could Jr be anymore of a freak show with how he acts on the court?
3rd side note: great turnout by the students. I'm the first to criticize but want to be sure to acknowledge there great turnout and energy. :thumbsup:
Quote from: HC on February 16, 2013, 08:09:20 PM2nd side note: could Jr be anymore of a freak show with how he acts on the court?
please eluicidate; please enumerate. we (watching on tv) are curious indeed.
I thought it was embarrassing when we were outscored by Detroit by 20+ pts in the second half of the Horizon League final. Then they went and got outscored by 25 points in the last 9.5 minutes of the game today and lost a 15-point lead in a little more than five minutes. Nothing short of atrocious. Seemed like we were really hurt when Buggs got into foul trouble.
On another note, despite the fact that Valpo was ahead for the entire game before Detroit's run, Bryce Drew managed to use all of Valpo's timeouts with four minutes left in the game. How does that happen? On multiple instances, Bryce called a timeout right before a media timeout. I hope he realizes how poorly he managed his timeouts.
The way it's jumps around beats his chest and taunts the crowd. Lots of players will do it for a second or two, this kid acts like he is possessed or something. He is jumping around half court while his teammates are just about back to the bench.
I do like Minneraths game...he is a good player
Quote from: HC on February 16, 2013, 08:26:24 PM
The way it's jumps around beats his chest and taunts the crowd. Lots of players will do it for a second or two, this kid acts like he is possessed or something. He is jumping around half court while his teammates are just about back to the bench.
he was pounding on the floor at one point after a made bucket too
What happened with the flagrant, I was watching the shot go through the hoop?
Quote from: HC on February 16, 2013, 09:06:42 PM
What happened with the flagrant, I was watching the shot go through the hoop?
Whoever it was that fouled bobby got his elbow up into Bobby's face/throat.
FG % - 12.5
3Pt FG% - 0
FT% - 50
TO - 1
Too much dribbling
Bad passes
Why, oh why, does someone with these numbers see the floor?
Game definitely turned when Erik got his fourth foul. He was outplaying McCallum on both sides of the court. Tough loss, but got to give credit to Detroit, especially Minerath, for never giving up. Both teams have now stolen one on the other's court; however, Valpo still has control of its own fate. Time to put this behind and move on to the business of winning the rest of the conference games. Nobody thought it would be easy. I know I never expected us to have less than 3 losses. In fact, I had predicted 12-4 with a split against Detroit.
Meanwhile, a highlight from the student section:
Valparaiso University Harlem Shake (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-STAL0aNko#ws)
I don't care what you say about my comments. Dority was aweful tonight. He had a lot of clunkers. He isn't a good point gaurd. When he is bringing the ball down the court I have a gut feeling that says we are not going to score, and most of the time it is true. Wear your blinders if you want, but he isn't good. He isn't even a good back up. He can't lose anyone with his ball handling skills. He can't even make space to shoot. He goes to the hoop and either puts up a lay up that hits the bottom of the back board or throws it away. Drink the koolaid if you want but I don't but it. He went 1-8.....that's aweful. Look at his previous games and sure they are decent but that's against sub par teams. He isn't a starting d1 point gaurd for a team that wants to have sucess and that's a fact.
Simply put Detroit out played Valpo in all respects in the second half, they took over the court we got pushed all over!! when push came to shove they wanted the game more,good Game Detroit!!!.
Now forget this game get ready for LU on the road,hope the team wants that game more!!. >:(
They didn't outplay Valpo in the second half, just the last 9 minutes :)
Quote from: truth219 on February 16, 2013, 10:53:59 PMI don't care what you say about my comments. Dority was aweful tonight. He had a lot of clunkers. He isn't a good point gaurd. When he is bringing the ball down the court I have a gut feeling that says we are not going to score, and most of the time it is true. Wear your blinders if you want, but he isn't good. He isn't even a good back up. He can't lose anyone with his ball handling skills. He can't even make space to shoot. He goes to the hoop and either puts up a lay up that hits the bottom of the back board or throws it away. Drink the koolaid if you want but I don't but it. He went 1-8.....that's aweful. Look at his previous games and sure they are decent but that's against sub par teams. He isn't a starting d1 point gaurd for a team that wants to have sucess and that's a fact.
What exactly are you trying to accomplish with all this animosity towards the rest of the posters on this board? If you don't agree with what the majority of posters believe about the team maybe it would be good to find another group of fans to converse with about Valpo hoops. Unless always being the guy who antagonizes the rest of the crowd is your thing.
Good point
I believe that we will still get the #1 seed, as our guys will win the next 3, and come out to play at GB. I believe this, not only because I think that this will be a learning game, but because I really don't want to fly into Detroit, or stay in the city! I apologize to any of you living in Detroit, but it is just a depressing city, essentially a sign of the economy's struggles. It was bad before the economy tightened up, and I can only imagine it now. I put it up there with that Cleveland video that was floating around. Maybe I am spoiled because Texas hasn't been affected by the strained economy, I don't know. I go into Dallas/Fort Worth, Houston, San Antonio, and Austin, and I see clean cities with clean buildings/streets, and booming populations filled with excitement (4 of the top 10 US areas for job growth and growing populations). I think of Detroit as the exact opposite.
Quote from: valpotx on February 17, 2013, 12:35:19 AM
I believe that we will still get the #1 seed, as our guys will win the next 3, and come out to play at GB.
+1 I believe in this team. They will bounce back. Tonight was tough. but we're still in the driver's seat.
Quote from: valpotx on February 17, 2013, 12:35:19 AM
I believe that we will still get the #1 seed, as our guys will win the next 3, and come out to play at GB. I believe this, not only because I think that this will be a learning game, but because I really don't want to fly into Detroit, or stay in the city! I apologize to any of you living in Detroit, but it is just a depressing city, essentially a sign of the economy's struggles. It was bad before the economy tightened up, and I can only imagine it now. I put it up there with that Cleveland video that was floating around. Maybe I am spoiled because Texas hasn't been affected by the strained economy, I don't know. I go into Dallas/Fort Worth, Houston, San Antonio, and Austin, and I see clean cities with clean buildings/streets, and booming populations filled with excitement (4 of the top 10 US areas for job growth and growing populations). I think of Detroit as the exact opposite.
Just so I have a point of reference, when was the last time you traveled to Detroit and saw a game at Detroit-Mercy?
I haven't ever been to a game at Detroit-Mercy, but have been to the city itself just a few years ago, outside of the few times I was there in college. I am saying that I don't want to fly to Detroit because I plan on going to the conference tournament again. It was easy for me to ask my fiancee if she wanted to go to Chicago last year, and also see the school I played baseball at. I asked her today if she would be up for a trip to Detroit, and I got an, 'ewww, why??' ;)
Is it nice around their school then?
Quote from: valpotx on February 17, 2013, 03:09:18 AM
Is it nice around their school then?
It's not as bad as some other parts of the city but not anywhere as nice as Rochester where Oakland is located. I think overall Calihan Hall is pretty decent. There is a great deal of security on the campus so it's not a problem there. But I wouldn't go walking around the neighborhood that surrounds UDM.
A few observations:
Detroit made some very good adjustments at half. Van Vijk had a monster first half, and was all but shut down in the second.
No one can convince me that Buggs isn't important to this team. When he went out, the team was deflated, and the writing was on the wall.
Not since Dennis Rodman left Detroit has the city had a player like Minnerath. He's a jerk, he plays dirty, but he gets it done on the court. Opening up his game was another good half-time adjustment by Sr.
Although Jr's chest-thumping went on a bit longer than I would have liked, I did get a peak into his personality when he fell into a Crusaderette and madensure that she wasn't hurt before he went back onto the court.
I wondered if we should have had Bogan running the point again after Buggs went out. Maybe some of the early season chemistry would have emerged.
Rossi still in a warm-up? I hope he can get on the floor soon. Ryan was covered closely all night long -- we need to have someone else getting attention.
We will miss Matt Kenney.
Quote from: truth219 on February 16, 2013, 10:53:59 PM
I don't care what you say about my comments. Dority was aweful tonight. He had a lot of clunkers. He isn't a good point gaurd. When he is bringing the ball down the court I have a gut feeling that says we are not going to score, and most of the time it is true. Wear your blinders if you want, but he isn't good. He isn't even a good back up. He can't lose anyone with his ball handling skills. He can't even make space to shoot. He goes to the hoop and either puts up a lay up that hits the bottom of the back board or throws it away. Drink the koolaid if you want but I don't but it. He went 1-8.....that's aweful. Look at his previous games and sure they are decent but that's against sub par teams. He isn't a starting d1 point gaurd for a team that wants to have sucess and that's a fact.
This is just "aweful."
I know this is akin to liking your own Facebook status or mentioning yourself in your own tweet, but here's a couple cents. Post in the chatroom when we were up 12 with 8+ minutes to go before Minnerath's 2-pointer and Bryce's TO
QuoteKL31NY: we're only doing enough just to stay ahead on 'em. we gotta drive 'em outta the gym now
We went 8:29 w/out a field goal from Kenney's bucket prior to the above dialogue that put us up 15 to Dority's layup with under a minute to go. During our field goal drought, Detroit scored on 12 of its 13 possessions. Unreal! Give 'em credit. We left the front door open and they blasted it through the living room to the back of the kitchen.
I think you are all disregarding the truth in truth219's assessment of the guard situation.
If you couldn't see things weren't working when Buggs was not on the court, you haven't seen enough basketball.
I haven't been a huge supporter of Dority's all season. He just seems like he's going to be the next Tony Falu, in my opinion. I know I shouldn't mention his name, but that's just what I feel like Dority will be, when he's not getting his points or touches to be the leading scorer every game.
In terms of the flagrant foul called on Calliste's elbows to be Bobby's throat, based on the graphic ESPN showed, the only way that Calliste could have been ejected was if he had done this same action to Will, because it was Bogan who had the ball at the time. What Calliste did, according to the rules is equivalent to an off-the-ball foul, just with a little more intention than a simple hand check.
Last night was definitely a frustrating final quarter of basketball, and I hope Bryce takes some time to analyze what he did with his coaching in this game, about substitution rotations and management of timeouts. The first TO he called in the first half made sense to give our guys an extra breather, plus getting subs in, but after that, he needed to be reallly careful with how he used his timeouts, and must work on this in the remaining conference games, so this same stuff doesn't happen in the tournament. I would sure like to be a fly on the wall during some of the team film sessions immediately after games, just to hear what kinds of dialogue the players have with the coaching staff about how things were handled, or what the players believe could have been done better than what they were, just to see what kind of court knowledge the team really has.
Quote from: valporun on February 17, 2013, 10:27:01 AMIn terms of the flagrant foul called on Calliste's elbows to be Bobby's throat, based on the graphic ESPN showed, the only way that Calliste could have been ejected was if he had done this same action to Will, because it was Bogan who had the ball at the time. What Calliste did, according to the rules is equivalent to an off-the-ball foul, just with a little more intention than a simple hand check.
You must have read the ESPN graphic wrong (or they used a different graphic than they have used all season). A flagrant foul is a flagrant foul, no matter who it is committed on. A player for Oregon was DQ'd last night for an off-the-ball foul.
Either that, or you don't know what "making a play on the ball" means in terms of a flagrant foul. When a player has the ball, you must make an attempt to get the ball (usually to block a layup or dunk), rather than just take someone out. That line has no meaning as to whether a player has the ball or not.
Per NCAA Rule Book:
c. Flagrant 1 personal foul. A flagrant 1 personal foul shall be a personal
foul that is deemed excessive in nature and/or unnecessary, but not based
solely on the severity of the act. Examples include, but are not limited to:
1. Causing excessive contact with an opponent while playing the ball;
2. Contact that is not a legitimate attempt to play the ball or player,
specifically designed to stop or keep the clock from starting;
3. Pushing or holding a player from behind to prevent a score;
4. Fouling a player clearly away from the ball who is not directly
involved with the play, specifically designed to stop or keep the clock
from starting; and
5. Contact with a player making a throw-in. (Women) This act shall also
serve as a team warning for reaching through the boundary. (See Rule
4-17.1.g.)
6. Illegal contact with an elbow that occurs above the shoulders of an
opponent when the elbows are not swung excessivelyd. Flagrant 2 personal foul. A flagrant 2 personal foul shall be a personal
foul that involves contact with an opponent that is not only excessive, but
also severe or extreme while the ball is live.
What happened is clearly part of c-6, so correctly ruled a Flagrant 1. Had he, for example run past Bobby and thrown an elbow into the side of his head while not involved in "basketball activity", that would have qualified as a Flagrant 2. Even though he got his elbow up, he was running through a screen, which qualifies as a "basketball play", but with the elbow its flagrant.
To Dority, he was bad. There's no other way to say it. When Buggs got in foul trouble, that was the turning point...we had no backup PG last night that was capable.
Quote from: vuweathernerd on February 16, 2013, 08:35:05 PM
he was pounding on the floor at one point after a made bucket too
Absolutely no room for this in the game.
I also noticed that Detroit played their starters until the end and kept extending the lead by scoring 10 points in the last minute of the game.
Not sure I have any problems with how Detroit conducted themselves. Steve Wojo and Chris Collins used to slap the floor all the time at Duke (at all points of the game) and they were universally praised (except by Carolina) fans for being gritty, hard-nosed players. Suddenly Junior does it and everyone is upset? I don't even have a problem with McCallum pounding his chest after he led his team back from a 15-point deficit in their biggest game of the year. He's got 1,200 students screaming "Daddy's Boy" every time he touches the ball, of course he is going to react.
Unless we find out that the fans were on a spray-painting rampage after the game last night, not sure you can criticize much about Detroit with the exception of Calliste's flagrant. They kept their starters in at the end because they aren't a very deep team and it was a five-point game down the stretch.
This was just a great college basketball game, great atmosphere and it will be a shame if these two teams don't play again.
The whole team played poorly in the Second half, not just Dority. Some of our leaders were hard to find, Dority is uncertain of his role, Buggs tried to do too much, not so good clock management, when the flagrant foul occurred the team did not respond as a team. A bad 10 minutes, Detroit responded by playing together. Lets forget, move on to Loyola, they have won their last two and we have not beaten this year the road only gets steeper from here on out!!
Go for a walk!! ::)
Oakland, part deux.
Have to say I cringe when Dorrity drives the lane too. Somehow Buggs finds a way even at 5'10" to put it in the hoop when he doesn't dish off.
It is frustrating when they sag off Buggs and he doesn't shoot well, but I'm not sure how much better Dorrity's shooting has been. He sure doesn't hesitate to shoot. Maybe he should.
Quote from: atkins on February 16, 2013, 06:54:13 PMAbsolutely no rebounding.
Well, we did outrebound them 24-12 in the first half. A tale of two halves, clearly. (Or a tale of a.. six minute?... scoring drought and everything that came with it.)
In that first half we held Detroit to fewer points than anyone but Syracuse.
Quote from: valpopal on February 16, 2013, 10:35:50 PM
Meanwhile, a highlight from the student section:
Valparaiso University Harlem Shake (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-STAL0aNko#ws)
This happened during Bryce's TO that extended to a timeout on the floor. We were up 63-53 with just over 8 minutes left and we lost. Do we dare blame the students or specifically "The Harlem Shake Meme" for losing this game? ;)
I agree that LaVonte did not have a very good game. What I had hoped for was a point who could come in when the other team was sagging off Erik and knock down the three. He has done that some, but I would prefer that role be filled by Will, who is as good of a ballhandler and a lights out shooter.
When Dority has the ball I do cringe expecting a miscue or turnover but last night he had 3 assts and 1 to, but his shooting, or choice of shots was not good.
Erik Buggs is in a class of his own. Ex-his shooting, he is as good as any point in most leagues. His defense, ball handling and passing are fantastic. He has got to be the quickest player to ever wear the brown and gold. We have been spoiled. The performance of the team is less tied to Ryan and mostly tied to Erik. I hope Carter is close to as good.
We did everything well last night except the turnovers. Somehow I don't see that changing and will be our ultimate downfall.
I haven't read any of the posts written after this game finished last evening.
I don't much about basketball unlike many posters on this board.
Two things stood out, for me anyway, while watching the game last night. First: that Minnerath guy is really good. He looks like he could play for any Big 10 team. Second: I don't intend for this to be a mean comment, but Dority is not a good player, and if he is the point guard for next year, we are in for a long season.
Paul
Quote from: Pgmado on February 17, 2013, 11:14:32 AM
Not sure I have any problems with how Detroit conducted themselves. Steve Wojo and Chris Collins used to slap the floor all the time at Duke (at all points of the game) and they were universally praised (except by Carolina) fans for being gritty, hard-nosed players. Suddenly Junior does it and everyone is upset? I don't even have a problem with McCallum pounding his chest after he led his team back from a 15-point deficit in their biggest game of the year. He's got 1,200 students screaming "Daddy's Boy" every time he touches the ball, of course he is going to react.
Unless we find out that the fans were on a spray-painting rampage after the game last night, not sure you can criticize much about Detroit with the exception of Calliste's flagrant. They kept their starters in at the end because they aren't a very deep team and it was a five-point game down the stretch.
This was just a great college basketball game, great atmosphere and it will be a shame if these two teams don't play again.
Eddie was being a smart a$$ about keeping the starters in. He likes to come on the board and act like he roots for both Valpo and Butler, but he is just here to be a smart a$$ ;)
Quote from: truth219 on February 16, 2013, 10:53:59 PMHe went 1-8.....that's aweful. Look at his previous games and sure they are decent but that's against sub par teams. He isn't a starting d1 point gaurd for a team that wants to have sucess and that's a fact.
Overall I think LaVonte is slightly better at the 2 and slightly worse at the 1 than I was expecting. This comparison may have been made before but he reminds me a bit of a younger Brandon McPherson, but with a less accurate 3 point shot.
Would Jay Harris have played better backup point against that pressure? Don't think so and he is long gone. Will? Probably not. Maybe Jordan, or Matt or Ben? Nooooo not likely.
Dority is our best option at this point and should continue to improve as the rest of the season plays out. This is one of the teams biggest vulnerabilities and is going to require a little more work. Maybe Eastern Kentucky will do us a favor and press and overplay for 40 minutes because we could use the extra practice. First order of business is revenge at Loyola!
Quote from: justducky on February 17, 2013, 06:26:35 PM
Would Jay Harris have played better backup point against that pressure? Don't think so and he is long gone.
That ship has sailed. It's been discussed over and over ... Harris and Edwards left because they knew they couldn't get minutes ahead of Dority and Capobianco. Could they help at times? Possibly ... but they chose not to stay around and accept diminished roles.
Justducky is just right. I have wanted to stay out of this discussion about Dority because I thought the best thing was to put the game behind and focus on the future since Valpo still controls its fate. However, the number of posts pointing fingers at Dority has gotten to the level one sometimes sees when people are looking to find a scapegoat. Nobody expected Dority to be "a starting d1 point guard." His best position is at the 2 guard. He should be the starting 2-guard next year beside Carter when he is eligible. Dority has been playing back-up point guard this year out of necessity, but that is not his strength. His strength is driving to the basket and scoring or drawing fouls and shooting better than 80% at the free throw line. Look at the three games where Dority led the team in scoring and you will see this.
Dority would be the first to acknowledge he had a bad game last night. In fact, he was almost apologetic in a tweet this morning, stating that he knows he is better than what he showed. However, nobody has mentioned it (and to his credit Dority hasn't used this as an excuse), but he was playing on a bad ankle. He spent the whole week up to game time treating the ankle and trying to recuperate. He is not as strong as Buggs on defense, but he is better than shown in the last couple of games where he has been a step to a half-step slow and showing some difficulty in lateral movement.
Look at the game two weeks ago against UIC as well as the two before that just before he injured his ankle and compare them to the last two games after his injury (Wright State and Detroit) that occurred only one week before the Detroit game. The difference is like night and day. The kid was matched up against "the preseason Player of the Year and future NBA player" while sporting an ankle that was being iced all week.
Quote from: justducky on February 17, 2013, 06:26:35 PM
Quote from: truth219 on February 16, 2013, 10:53:59 PMHe went 1-8.....that's aweful. Look at his previous games and sure they are decent but that's against sub par teams. He isn't a starting d1 point gaurd for a team that wants to have sucess and that's a fact.
Overall I think LaVonte is slightly better at the 2 and slightly worse at the 1 than I was expecting. This comparison may have been made before but he reminds me a bit of a younger Brandon McPherson, but with a less accurate 3 point shot.
Would Jay Harris have played better backup point against that pressure? Don't think so and he is long gone. Will? Probably not. Maybe Jordan, or Matt or Ben? Nooooo not likely.
Dority is our best option at this point and should continue to improve as the rest of the season plays out. This is one of the teams biggest vulnerabilities and is going to require a little more work. Maybe Eastern Kentucky will do us a favor and press and overplay for 40 minutes because we could use the extra practice. First order of business is revenge at Loyola!
On a brighter note, the newest class of Valpo's Athletic Hall of Fame was inducted yesterday and introduced at halftime of the game. As you can see, the class was led by former basketball star Katie Boone. I was fortunate to meet and have dinner with a couple of the honorees, and I enjoyed hearing stories about Valpo's sports teams of the 1950s and 1960s, as well as reflections on campus life more than 50 years ago. After the disappointing end of the game, those stories helped put things in a better perspective. Here is a photo I took of the inductees being introduced.
(http://i50.tinypic.com/vg78uh.jpg)
Quote from: valpopal on February 17, 2013, 07:05:22 PMNobody expected Dority to be "a starting d1 point guard."
erm...i don't know...seems to me a lot of people did. Scott Drew, Stan Heath, (possibly) Bill Self and Tom Crean. Bo Ryan. Steve Alford. If they count for anything as far as knowing what a d1 point is. Stan Heath
made him a starting d1 point guard.
Let's not rewrite history here! LVD has played the point in college so far (USF), and in high school (Simeon), and probably since biddy ball. Just because he
might make a better 2 than a 1
now doesn't mean he was "never a point guard". Perhaps because we are used to Erik, an old-school pass-first one (not to mention predecessors like him, e.g. Jared Loyd), we don't think of someone who is new-school (in the Chauncey Billups mode of looking to shoot or create as much as to pass) as a "point guard".
Yet that is what he is and what he was brought in for. Whether he's been effective--in the games he hasn't been injured for--is, of course, another discussion.
Let's just not rewrite the facts and write him off in doing so yet.
Sorry, I guess I should have been more precise. I wasn't including those in Dority's past. I was referencing those here who have observed the situation. This year Dority was expected to be the back-up complementing Buggs, especially useful late in the game when other teams might try to foul Erik, and a part-time 2-guard. Next year, as Chef has pointed out elsewhere, the coaching staff is projecting Carter as the starting point guard and Dority as starting at the 2 position, though once again he might be called upon because of necessity to play point guard in some of the games before Carter is eligible.
OK, that's all well and good.
In other news, who doesn't love Katie Boone?
I'm going to stop myself right there before people think I'm just Saders with better taste.
I don't know if I agree with how negative the discussion is around Doritity now. It is almost like fans want to write him off.
Yes, he struggled and I think I started this because I said someone needs to work with him on shot selection and not forcing plays....
HOWEVER, I think that Dority has a lot of talent for the team to work with - I think he will get wiser. Bryce was definitely "coaching" him during the game.
All the fingers are pointing at dority because we all watched the same game. When buggs drives....he either finishes at the hoop, dishes, or dribbles back out. Dority can't finish as well, hogs the ball and seems like never wants to pass, and doesn't have the skills to dribble back out. We are fans...I'm not doritys mother. I call it how I see it. I'm not being mean and saying dority is a bad person. Being a fan I have to praise for the good and talk about the bad. Valpos weakness still is no back up point gaurd. Which we all thought dority would be. I hope lexus williams is good
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on February 17, 2013, 09:00:30 PM
OK, that's all well and good.
In other news, who doesn't love Katie Boone?
I'm going to stop myself right there before people think I'm just Saders with better taste.
Very nice girl, and was a great player for us
Quote from: truth219 on February 17, 2013, 09:42:40 PM
We are fans...I'm not doritys mother. I call it how I see it.
We are all fans, but some see it with a more complete perspective than you do. You also said: "Wear your blinders if you want, but he isn't good. He isn't even a good back up." You are the one with blinders. As a back up coming off the bench, Dority has the third leading scoring average on the team, just behind Ryan and Kevin. Also, as I said in my past message, you seem to be blind to the fact he was playing on a bad ankle wrapped in ice all week against a player called "the preseason Player of the Year and a future NBA player." Call it the way you see it, but be sure to view the whole picture.
3rd in scoring true but his field goal % is 36 worst on the team....his 3 point shooting % is 28 good enough for 2nd worst on the team. He averages 2.1 assists per game but also gives up 2.2 turnovers but yes he is the 3rd leading scorer
Quote from: justducky on February 17, 2013, 06:26:35 PM
Quote from: truth219 on February 16, 2013, 10:53:59 PMHe went 1-8.....that's aweful. Look at his previous games and sure they are decent but that's against sub par teams. He isn't a starting d1 point gaurd for a team that wants to have sucess and that's a fact.
agree!
Will? Probably YES. Maybe Jordan, or Matt or Ben?.
Dority is not our best option at this point and PROBABLY WON'T improve as the rest of the season plays out. This is one of the teams biggest vulnerabilities and is going to require a little more work.
i FIXED YOUR POST FOR YOU, DUCKY.
Dority is also 4th in most shots attempted (even though he didn't play til december)...and 8th in minutes played....shoots too much for worst shooting percentage on the team
Quote from: KL31NY on February 17, 2013, 02:33:12 PM
Quote from: valpopal on February 16, 2013, 10:35:50 PM
Meanwhile, a highlight from the student section:
Valparaiso University Harlem Shake (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-STAL0aNko#ws)
This happened during Bryce's TO that extended to a timeout on the floor. We were up 63-53 with just over 8 minutes left and we lost. Do we dare blame the students or specifically "The Harlem Shake Meme" for losing this game? ;)
yes, i do put the blame on this happening.
and it doesn't bother me that they still had their starters in at the end, because we were trying to cut the deficit, in single digits, and fouling as well. if they had been up by 20 again, it'd have been a different story.
wouldn't be a complete thread without truth ragging on someone playing hurt.
I MEAN REALLY HOW DARE THEY MISS A SHOT! PULL THEIR SCHOLARSHIP! THIS TEAM IS LOSING IN THE FIRST ROUND ARRGH ARRGH MISSPELLED WORDS
Definitely no love on this board for Dority, who clearly played a bad game. However, our stars did not step up when it counts. Ryan was streaky/inconsistent. Kevin looked lost and out-muscled after the first half. In games like this, Ryan and Kevin should have put the load on their shoulders, but they did not do so. Can't blame Buggs or Capo for this loss. Both of them played a great game (except for Buggs' ridiculous three-point shot, which came at an inopportune time), and it's too easy to blame the "new guy" (i.e., Dority). Let's keep in mind that he did not play lights-out at USF, either, so perhaps we expected too much. However, when it comes down to it, leaders step up in big games (ala Butler's leadership), but our leaders are not stepping up consistently. As any student of college basketball knows, streaky play does not win games.
After waiting a couple of days to let my frustrations with Saturday's game moderate, I've been reading the post-game comments and agree with many of them. Detroit simply outplayed us in the second half on both ends of the floor, especially in the final 10 minutes. I thought Junior handled himself decently (and I agree that Buggs may have outplayed him for the first 30 minutes); the only time I was a bit bothered by his behavior was his reaction when he made a flat-footed put-back after the ball had been batted around following his missed shot, a basket that seemed put Detroit solidly in control. As for slapping the floor, teams have been doing that for years as a sign of their commitment to playing defense; perhaps we should have tried slapping the floor in the final quarter! While I think some of the attacks on Dority (who attended Foreman, not Simeon, BTW) have been a bit vicious, I also have been disappointed that he hasn't been consistently more valuable. Is this because he hasn't been playing up to the level of his ability or because we expect too much from him? While recognizing there may be some truth in the former, I also believe many have expected too much from him since pre-season chatter began. We (using the term collectively) seem to think that any transfer from a "BCS" school should be an instant star here when in reality a player not seeing significant minutes at a BCS school is seldom going to be an instant star in the Horizon League. I still believe Dority can be an asset to us, but it most likely will be after Bryce and staff have the off-season to work with him, helping him understand and improve his weaknesses while teaching him that he doesn't have to take a lot of shots to help the team. Let's not burden the transfers that become eligible next year with expectations so high that we're all talking about how disappointing they are. For now, let's hope the players are focused and sharp for tomorrow night's game; Loyola more often than not seems to give us trouble regardless of the comparative records.
If he's hurt why didn't coleman play when dority was at the 2. Him having the worst scoring percentage on the team is for the course of the season, but you guys are right he's in his first half season so of course he isn't going to make shots
Quote from: Chairback on February 16, 2013, 01:35:57 PMI do not take it as a slap in the face but as immaturity.
Which has been my precise point. I don't hate him because he dunked. I'm disappointed in him for going for a cheap thrill that lasts 2 seconds in exchange for an entire season of backlash that could conceivably disrupt his own game, fire up the Crusaders, make the venue even more hostile, you name it. Very bad trade-off, and not very business-like. Last year I was ready to hope that it would be chalked up as "lesson learned". Now I'm thinking he might have done it intentionally, hoping we all would hate him. As a Valpo fan, that scares me. As a sports fan, its a huge turn-off. I also can't help wondering how such a mentality can serve one when they graduate from sports to some other lifestyle.
I'm theorizing here, I'm not jumping to conclusions. It would please me to no end if I'm reading him incorrectly.
Dority appears to be Ali Berdiel version 2013 -- ya know, "high risk, high reward", except we haven't progressed to the high reward part yet. But he does look like he forces it too much and thinks more highly of his abilities than he should. His drive to end the half was successful, so it's not always a fail, and he is more of a 3-pt threat than Erik is, and I think he's a better FT shooter than Erik.
Several people have pointed out the biggest reason why Valpo lost, at least on the Valpo side of the ledger: Erik Buggs foul trouble.
I would like to point out the biggest reason I think from the Detroit side of the ledger: they are stronger and more athletic than we are, in my humble opinion, and Saturday night, they found their groove. It seems to me Detroit's most powerful enemy is itself. If they defeat that enemy, I'm not sure there's much Valpo can do to stem the tide.
Perhaps Erik is the key to both of those things, and that is where the whole outlook of a rematch hinges. If Erik is a force throughout the game (and doesn't commit two really stupid fouls), perhaps Detroit remains discombobulated, and Valpo prevails.
I have zero problem with players slapping the floor. I love it when I see my team do that.
This is where we realize that we've already reached the point where we're having the same conversations again.
Dority brings something no one else on the active roster possesses: the belief that he can make something happen. He has the talent, as do others on the team, but none of them have that mentality, the scorer's mentality, and it showed in the second half.
People haven't been willing to get on KVW and Rowdy for basically disappearing (KVW after his putback early in the 2nd half; 8 reb 1st half, 1 2nd; Rowdy basically after the first couple minutes).
Put Dority's head on Rowdy's shoulders, and that man-strosity would not have allowed us to lose that game.
He has scorers mantality but not enough skill to make enough shots to be effective his numbers show that. Erik is this teams captain and leader when he went out so did our chance of winning neither rowdy or kvw are leaders or coach on the floor no one is besides buggs.
Well, then, maybe you could spend some of your time calling out seniors for not leading, instead of piling on the new guy playing hurt.
Anyone who watched the game could see that while Dority did not play like he can, he certainly could not be the scapegoat for the collapse.
It'd be like watching The Usual Suspects and blaming Benicio del Toro for letting it all fall apart.
Why play him when he is hurt. Coleman had zero mins
Quote from: truth219 on February 18, 2013, 01:26:19 PM
Why play him when he is hurt. Coleman had zero mins
I believe there is another story about why Coleman is not playing that has not come out yet. It must be the reason he did not play against Detroit.
Seriously, does no one in the local media have any idea what is going on with Coleman?
We don't get a whole lot more then the associated press gives from our beat writers
Quote from: truth219 on February 18, 2013, 01:48:17 PM
We don't get a whole lot more then the associated press gives from our beat writers
We have more than one beat writer?
Quote from: a3uge on February 18, 2013, 02:04:46 PMWe have more than one beat writer?
NWI: Oren
P-T: Osipoff
Paul Jankowski often does pieces for the Times as well.
Let's set the O/U at 2.5.
I have something that has temporarily taken my focus away from our beloved Crusaders. I hope to get back into all-things-VU-bb within a few days. I just want to briefly say that I want to give Detroit their due - they played an awesome 2nd half of bb and clearly deserved the win. Second, the student section was amazing - probably the best in years. Lastly, I still believe this team will win the H.L tournament on the same floor they lost on Sat. Go Crusaders!
The lack of play from Coleman is shocking to say the least. He was in to take some PG duties when Dority got hurt and Buggs needed rest against YSU and didn't look terrible. God help us if Bogan if running the point. Granted against YSU we didn't look good either so...
I got to the game early so I could watch some of the warmups and see how Coleman looked. He was moving around fine, shot looked pure as usual and didn't seem to hobble or limp when in the layup line and when running in and out of the ARC. Sure wish there was an explanation for his absence.
Quote from: Kyle321n on February 18, 2013, 04:13:38 PMSure wish there was an explanation for his absence.
There was a little buried in the Post Tribune sidebar before the Detroit game.
http://posttrib.suntimes.com/sports/colleges/18262176-556/valparaiso-can-clinch-share-of-title-with-win-against-rival-detroit.html (http://posttrib.suntimes.com/sports/colleges/18262176-556/valparaiso-can-clinch-share-of-title-with-win-against-rival-detroit.html)
Quote
The Big Number
Jordan Coleman played in every game but one this season. The junior guard didn't see the court on Tuesday at Wright State.
"It was an in-game decision," Crusaders coach Bryce Drew said. "The other players were playing well. We decided to go bigger, playing Bobby (Capobianco) a little more, playing him and Kevin (Van Wijk) together."
I notice they listed attendance at 5,166.
http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/boxscore/2012-13/3251/detroit-vs-valpo-02-16-2013/ (http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/boxscore/2012-13/3251/detroit-vs-valpo-02-16-2013/)
Not a record, apparently, but I'm not sure what the record is. (Feb 5, 2008 against Butler was listed at 5,432.)
They did sell (or at least distribute) tickets in Section AA up at least as high as JJ - which was at least a smidge awkward for the people sitting in those seats.
I haven't ever seen more than 5,432. We had that many in attendance at several games while I was in school, and the place was completely packed. I imagine that is our official 'sell out of all space possible' attendance figure (including track), rather than just seat sell out.
Quote from: agibson on February 18, 2013, 05:09:30 PM
Quote from: Kyle321n on February 18, 2013, 04:13:38 PMSure wish there was an explanation for his absence.
There was a little buried in the Post Tribune sidebar before the Detroit game.
http://posttrib.suntimes.com/sports/colleges/18262176-556/valparaiso-can-clinch-share-of-title-with-win-against-rival-detroit.html (http://posttrib.suntimes.com/sports/colleges/18262176-556/valparaiso-can-clinch-share-of-title-with-win-against-rival-detroit.html)
Quote
The Big Number
Jordan Coleman played in every game but one this season. The junior guard didn't see the court on Tuesday at Wright State.
"It was an in-game decision," Crusaders coach Bryce Drew said. "The other players were playing well. We decided to go bigger, playing Bobby (Capobianco) a little more, playing him and Kevin (Van Wijk) together."
Fresh off the "tweety bird"
5:22pm
@NWIOren For Valparaiso, Jordan Coleman is not hurt and it's been Bryce's decision not to play him. Drew said he liked rhythm of guys on the floor
5:23pm
@NWIOren I didn't point this out on Saturday, but Jordan Coleman and Vashil Fernandez immediately began working out on the floor after the game.
That is just ridiculous. You like the rhythm of the guys on the floor, when you are in the middle of an opponent's 15-0 run to tie the game, that became 19-0? Nowhere in there do you figure, 'maybe I should try Jordan in the game, to see if we can regain what we are obviously losing?' That is weak, just weak. There has to be something else to it, as Jordan could have at least been useful for a few minutes in that sequence where it was TO, TO, TO, etc. The dude is athletic, can get offensive rebounds, and block the occasional shot with his hops...
The positive is obviously that Jordan and Vashil care enough that they are going above and beyond to try and get better.
Dority was our best option.......
I did see that in the Post, now that you mention it.
Quote from: truth219 on February 18, 2013, 06:07:19 PMDority was our best option.......
Agreed. Bringing Coleman in cold 87% thru the game would have been unfair.
Plus as you can see a lot of people would have been down on him for missing any of his shots.
After buggs fouled out, this is what I would have done. I would have put the remaining 5 seniors out there bogan boggs kenney rowdy and kvw. Sure no true point gaurd but at least you could put it on their shoulders. Let them be responsible for the teams fate on Saturday night.
After watching notre dame...bryce should have got a technical foul in the seconf half for some reason to fire up the team
Quote from: truth219 on February 18, 2013, 07:34:53 PM
After buggs fouled out, this is what I would have done. I would have put the remaining 5 seniors out there bogan boggs kenney rowdy and kvw. Sure no true point gaurd but at least you could put it on their shoulders. Let them be responsible for the teams fate on Saturday night.
Well Rowdy would have been good as a point forward
Quote from: truth219 on February 18, 2013, 01:48:17 PM
We don't get a whole lot more then the associated press gives from our beat writers
Ouch.
I've asked about Coleman each of the last two games. Both times it's been the same answer. "The guys we had in there were playing well, it was an in-game decision." "Jordan hasn't done anything wrong." "We like the rhythm of this group out there."
Look, would he have helped during that run against Detroit? Maybe in hindsight. Valpo was blowing out UIC or Milwaukee a few weeks back and they moved Coleman to the point in the second half. It didn't go very well from what I remember. Jordan isn't the answer at the point and you're not going to take out Bogan or Kenney when they were shooting like they were at that point. I still think Coleman will help this team this season.
This better be the last melt down because this season can't take many more
Quote from: truth219 on February 18, 2013, 08:57:25 PMThis better be the last melt down because this season can't take many more
Somewhere Tracey Gipson is shaking his head at this pampered generation.
Quote from: Pgmado on February 18, 2013, 08:53:44 PM
Quote from: truth219 on February 18, 2013, 01:48:17 PM
We don't get a whole lot more then the associated press gives from our beat writers
Ouch.
I wouldn't take too much stock in what Truth is saying. You've done a fantastic job. I think we're more frustrated over the rotation decisions than the reporting of said decisions.
Quote from: Pgmado on February 18, 2013, 08:53:44 PM
I've asked about Coleman each of the last two games. Both times it's been the same answer. "The guys we had in there were playing well, it was an in-game decision." "Jordan hasn't done anything wrong." "We like the rhythm of this group out there."
Look, would he have helped during that run against Detroit? Maybe in hindsight. Valpo was blowing out UIC or Milwaukee a few weeks back and they moved Coleman to the point in the second half. It didn't go very well from what I remember. Jordan isn't the answer at the point and you're not going to take out Bogan or Kenney when they were shooting like they were at that point. I still think Coleman will help this team this season.
I agree with the way Bogan and Kenney were playing, you don't take them out for Coleman. I'd love to see an extended period with Coleman at point and Dority at the 2.
Quote from: Kyle321n on February 18, 2013, 09:22:51 PMI'd love to see an extended period with Coleman at point and Dority at the 2.
And then we can add Rowdy at the 5, Bogan at 4, and KVW at the 3. I know it's 'just basketball', but these are positions these two have grown up playing for years.
It's a little like saying, "hey tanner, try pitching, it's just baseball and you're so good at it" or "zobeck, get out in the field and lead the attack". It just might work, but then again we could just trust the coaches that are with these guys like every single day.
http://umuac.org/threeweeks/Volume2.5/plan.html (http://umuac.org/threeweeks/Volume2.5/plan.html)
Greg Wood catching passes. Steve Bartholomew running sprints. Joylyn Ichiyama-Drewry throwing in the circle. Taylor Root spiking the ball.
OMG, the ideas and criticisms of these couch potato coaches are just ridiculously stupid. I am rolling on the floor here. I am glad to see from some of the other sarcastic remarks that a few other posters on this board understand the craziness of these critics and their answers/suggestions.
Get back to me after you've coached your first season of college ball.
Quote from: FWalum link=topic=1240.msg26417#msg26417
Get back to me after you've coached your first season of college ball.
We can't criticize a coach unless we coached college basketball? Am I not allowed to criticize a movie unless I've directed one? Can I not think a song sucks unless I have one playing on the radio? So basically any criticism of anything should only be warranted if you have a profession in the same field.
Quote from: FWalum on February 18, 2013, 10:57:43 PM
OMG, the ideas and criticisms of these couch potato coaches are just ridiculously stupid. I am rolling on the floor here. I am glad to see from some of the other sarcastic remarks that a few other posters on this board understand the craziness of these critics and their answers/suggestions.
Get back to me after you've coached your first season of college ball.
So if I was a volunteer assistant coach for 2 years on a College World Series participant team, can I still comment on basketball? ;)
I have played "NCAA Basketball 2010" and "NBA Jam" on my son's X-Box so I think I should be approved to comment....
Quote from: Smj on February 19, 2013, 07:45:27 AM
I have played "NCAA Basketball 2010" and "NBA Jam" on my son's X-Box so I think I should be approved to comment....
NBA Jam on XBox? It only counts if its NBA Jam Tournament edition on SNES or Sega Genesis.
Quote from: FWalum on February 18, 2013, 10:57:43 PMGet back to me after you've coached your first season of college ball.
If FW were truly serious, he'd be pretty much the only person commenting on this board. But what he means is that when you haven't sat in the seat, you are more prone to come up with cockamamie theories and off-the-wall criticisms. Everybody thinks they have the answer, but you should take car advice from your mechanic more often than your accountant.
And yes, my graduate degree and years of experience make what my criticism of music more valid than most. Basketball? Never higher than assistant coach on the CYO girls' runner-up, so I stick to numbers ;)
I think I had basketball on my old Activision console or my Atari - would that count?
(just wanted to be clear - I am just joking. I agree that you get a much better perspective once you "do" something. Also, to be clear - I would be horrible in a coaching role. I am a better "thinker" - give me 24 hours and I can come up with great insights - - - heat of the moment, not so much.)
Quote from: FWalum on February 18, 2013, 10:57:43 PM
OMG, the ideas and criticisms of these couch potato coaches are just ridiculously stupid. I am rolling on the floor here. I am glad to see from some of the other sarcastic remarks that a few other posters on this board understand the craziness of these critics and their answers/suggestions.
Get back to me after you've coached your first season of college ball.
.
If this were the case espn wouldn't exsist. The local news would be able to cover sports.I know I push the bill a lot but at least they are talking points this is just silly
Quote from: truth219 on February 19, 2013, 09:32:49 AM
Quote from: FWalum on February 18, 2013, 10:57:43 PM
OMG, the ideas and criticisms of these couch potato coaches are just ridiculously stupid. I am rolling on the floor here. I am glad to see from some of the other sarcastic remarks that a few other posters on this board understand the craziness of these critics and their answers/suggestions.
Get back to me after you've coached your first season of college ball.
.
If this were the case espn wouldn't exsist. The local news would be able to cover sports.I know I push the bill a lot but at least they are talking points this is just silly
I fear a subtle component of FW's point is just being completely missed. He didn't just come on here and decide to castigate *all* couch potato coaches who have ever criticized coaching decisions. He was *provoked* by some of the criticisms offered *here* *in this thread* in the aftermath of Saturday's game.
Context is important, people.
Most of us just wanted to respond sarcastically ;)
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on February 19, 2013, 08:54:49 AMIf FW were truly serious, he'd be pretty much the only person commenting on this board. But what he means is that when you haven't sat in the seat, you are more prone to come up with cockamamie theories and off-the-wall criticisms. Everybody thinks they have the answer, but you should take car advice from your mechanic more often than your accountant.
And yes, my graduate degree and years of experience make what my criticism of music more valid than most. Basketball? Never higher than assistant coach on the CYO girls' runner-up, so I stick to numbers
Thanks LaPorteAveApostle, you said it better than I did at the time. I don't think it is unreasonable that a critic has some modicum of expertise on the subject they are criticizing. I may have an opinion on how good or bad a movie is but I wouldn't consider myself a movie critic.
I am sure valpotx heard enough uninformed criticism while coaching at that high a level to at least be able to understand where I am coming from.
Opinion is one thing, criticism is another. As far as I know none of us that regularly post on this board are privy to the day to day goings on of the men's basketball program. We aren't in the huddle and we don't know the instructions given to a player as he enters the game as a starter or coming off the bench. I don't have problems with posters questioning why things are happening or strategic decisions, what I have problems with are the criticisms directed at specific players and criticism of coaching decisions made with out at least some proper analysis and consideration of how your statements affect the team, of which you are supposedly a fan, and also the school they and you represent. truth219, maybe it is just the tone with which you make your statements, which in my opinion are inflammatory, that bugs me because I think it invites a less reasoned response, kind of like my response in my previous post which some of you seemed to think was so silly. If you want to have a discussion then present your "talking points" in a way the promotes talk and comment.
Quote from: FWalum on February 19, 2013, 11:56:20 AMwhat I have problems with are the criticisms directed at specific players and criticism of coaching decisions made with out at least some proper analysis and consideration of how your statements affect the team
QuoteIf you want to have a discussion then present your "talking points" in a way the promotes talk and comment.
:clap:
Though I'm not sure comments here should ever affect the team (I know we've had that discussion before, so I won't rehash it).
I would like to see this thread be more stimulating than afternoon sports talk on WSCR, that's for sure (where people call in with opinions high on flame and low on substance).
Part of the fun in a fans forum is the ability to play that armchair coach occasionally, though as you mention, hopefully not in an aggressive manner. I definitely heard a lot about our coaches at TCU, but since we won a lot more often than not those 2 years, it was fairly limited criticism. I just really want to know more about the Jordan Coleman situation in my case, as he hasn't been overly bad in games to warrant not playing at all these past 2 games (again, my opinion). If we are experiencing a huge scoring drought, it can help to put in someone new at times, even if they are supposedly 'cold' from not playing all game. Usually when someone hasn't played, they at least bring some extra energy when they come into the game, which could rub off on the rest of the team.
Quote from: truth219 on February 18, 2013, 01:00:53 PMHe has scorers mantality but not enough skill to make enough shots to be effective his numbers show that. Erik is this teams captain and leader when he went out so did our chance of winning neither rowdy or kvw are leaders or coach on the floor no one is besides buggs.
Quote from: truth219 on February 18, 2013, 01:48:17 PMWe don't get a whole lot more then the associated press gives from our beat writers
Quote from: truth219 on February 18, 2013, 08:57:25 PMThis better be the last melt down because this season can't take many more
I agree with what FW Alum says. These statements are emphatic "my way or the highway" statements. If you don't leave any room for discussion all your doing is making statements to the rest of the posters. What good is that on a discussion board. You may not agree with another posters comments but just state why and stop making these emphatic statements.These are all opinions but the way you state them there is no room for debating them.
Quote from: valpotx on February 19, 2013, 12:35:53 PM
Part of the fun in a fans forum is the ability to play that armchair coach occasionally,.... I just really want to know more about the Jordan Coleman situation in my case, as he hasn't been overly bad in games to warrant not playing at all these past 2 games (again, my opinion). If we are experiencing a huge scoring drought, it can help to put in someone new at times, even if they are supposedly 'cold' from not playing all game. Usually when someone hasn't played, they at least bring some extra energy when they come into the game, which could rub off on the rest of the team.
I agree that mixing things up can sometimes produce results. I also think that we have 3 pretty decent coaches on the sidelines in Drew, Powell and Gore, and that Bryce is not an autocrat when it comes to game time coaching. I would have to believe that if Powell or Gore had said "hey, why don't we try Coleman..." he would have been in the game. I surmise they had some reason for not making that call, most likely the match up didn't make sense. I certainly am not putting him in the game at point against the guy who is #2 in the league in steals. IMO he certainly has something to offer in the right situation and I think we will see his role expand in the future.
Please don't overlook Jake Diebler on the sidelines. He's well beyond his years on basketball knowledge and has made the call on many set plays that have led to easy baskets over the last two seasons.
The other funny thing is earlier in the season we were talking about KVW & Capo and wishing they would get played together for a bigger lineup that would allow Rowdy to move to 3.
Then when it happens we complain about it.
Well while we're celebrating Festivus late, I'd like to air my grievance about Shannon Flavin from 20 years ago.
Quote from: chef on February 19, 2013, 02:13:20 PM
Please don't overlook Jake Diebler on the sidelines. He's well beyond his years on basketball knowledge and has made the call on many set plays that have led to easy baskets over the last two seasons.
Thanks for that insight chef. Wasn't trying to short change anyone. As I suspected, it sounds as if Bryce is willing to listen and trust his staff.
Bryce has great faith in his staff and leans on them accordingly.
Quote from: Smj on February 19, 2013, 08:55:59 AM
I think I had basketball on my old Activision console or my Atari - would that count?
For me it was Double Dribble on the NES! I never owned a copy, but loved to play at my friend's house.
Quote from: agibson on February 19, 2013, 06:05:18 PM
Quote from: Smj on February 19, 2013, 08:55:59 AM
I think I had basketball on my old Activision console or my Atari - would that count?
For me it was Double Dribble on the NES! I never owned a copy, but loved to play at my friend's house.
If that will allow us to coach, my strategy would be to shoot from the top corner 3 every time ;)
Quote from: valpotx on February 19, 2013, 02:20:56 AM
Quote from: FWalum on February 18, 2013, 10:57:43 PM
OMG, the ideas and criticisms of these couch potato coaches are just ridiculously stupid. I am rolling on the floor here. I am glad to see from some of the other sarcastic remarks that a few other posters on this board understand the craziness of these critics and their answers/suggestions.
Get back to me after you've coached your first season of college ball.
So if I was a volunteer assistant coach for 2 years on a College World Series participant team, can I still comment on basketball? ;)
I think your World Series' title gives you plenty of street cred, Tom. ;)