around the conference. Somehow the interest on campus' in the Horizon League is really piss poor. Tonight, while hosting the best team in the conference, a school with 16,000 kids draws 1985? Huh? Valpo, with a student body of 4000 draws 5000 for the Detroit game.
When we played at Detroit, with the two best teams playing, they drew 3418 (not bad!) At Cleveland State they drew 2403. If, you can believe the box scores.
Here's my point: These are major cities with absolutely no interest in the Horizon League. We should hope for an eventual departure to the Valley where folks in smaller towns seem to really back their teams. 1985? A third full for a league leader? Sad.
72, I agree with your points but I do want to point out that the 16,000 students of Loyola are spread across all of their campuses. The main campus has significantly fewer than that (maybe someone knows the actual number?).
Quote from: vu72 on February 19, 2013, 09:51:21 PMValpo, with a student body of 4000 draws 5000 for the Detroit game.
I think we should acknowledge the great job that has been done promoting this game to students and the general public. The t-shirt contest among a ton of social media has really increased the student turn out!
From their Lake Shore Campus website: "Residence halls that house more than 3,200 students"... with 85,000 alumni living in Chicago.
DePaul is drawing about 7500 per game this year...
So Loyola's enrollment includes IL, MD, etc?
Loyola just isn't good and hasn't been good for quite some time, so you can kind of see how they'd have bad attendance. They have the biggest endowment numbers in the Horizon, and they are a decent private school. Being in an urban setting might have something to do with it. Detroit has mediocre attendance, despite being a smaller Jesuit school with a large metro area.
Everyone else in the Horizon is a commuter school. It's not all that surprising school spirit is low among a school like UWM... I'm not even sure half their student population is aware they have a D1 basketball team. They'll chalk up excuses like "there's more to do in our big city" but really, not a lot of alumni pride with these schools. Valpo is 4th in the Horizon in endowment, despite being the smallest school (UWGB's is 209,947 lol). I believe if YSU ever became a decent basketball program, they'd have okay attendance. Their football team is generally well supported, and they 15k kids that go to the school
Quote from: valpotx on February 19, 2013, 10:15:09 PM
So Loyola's enrollment includes IL, MD, etc?
No, that's all Chicago. But, a bunch is grad students. And, it's all spread around ~6 campuses around the Chicago area.
Apparently 3,200 students live on the Lakeshore campus. I bet most of the rest of the 10,000 undergrads are on or around the Rogers Park campus?
I think while the students are on break that local high schoolers should get free admission with a student id. Just to have some people where the student section is.
Quote from: vu72 on February 19, 2013, 09:51:21 PM
around the conference. Somehow the interest on campus' in the Horizon League is really piss poor. Tonight, while hosting the best team in the conference, a school with 16,000 kids draws 1985? Huh? Valpo, with a student body of 4000 draws 5000 for the Detroit game.
When we played at Detroit, with the two best teams playing, they drew 3418 (not bad!) At Cleveland State they drew 2403. If, you can believe the box scores.
Here's my point: These are major cities with absolutely no interest in the Horizon League. We should hope for an eventual departure to the Valley where folks in smaller towns seem to really back their teams. 1985? A third full for a league leader? Sad.
There are still a lot of codependent HL fans that miss Daddy Butler. He abused them unmercifully for years, both physically and emotionally, belittled them, mocked them, but he was all they knew. Suddenly Daddy deserts the family and they act like there's no longer a reason to get out of bed in the morning. I've never seen a group of people so infatuated by someone else's success - and so lost without it. Maybe it IS time to move on to a place with less dysfunction and dependency.
Quote from: truth219 on February 19, 2013, 10:23:45 PM
I think while the students are on break that local high schoolers should get free admission with a student id. Just to have some people where the student section is.
I take it Valpo's 2-week spring break is soon since it's the middle of February... is it Feb 23rd to March 9thish? Or does it start March 2nd? If we win regular season, I'd hate to see the student section on spring break during the championship game. And I think LaBarbera should be fired if he allows an opposing student section to fill twice as many seats as the home team again. Maybe not LaBarbera, but someone should get fired for that monstrosity last year.
Quote from: a3uge on February 19, 2013, 10:43:43 PM
I take it Valpo's 2-week spring break is soon since it's the middle of February... is it Feb 23rd to March 9thish? Or does it start March 2nd? If we win regular season, I'd hate to see the student section on spring break during the championship game.
From the Valpo Registrar site: Fri. Mar. 1 - 6:30PM: Spring recess begins --- Mon. Mar. 18 8:00AM: Spring recess ends
Also wh, I decided to check out this guitar solo in your signature... the video's been taken down :'(
When did that happen? I believe for the conference tournament, each school has equal access to tickets/seats
Keep in mind that even though we are the home team, it is "technically" a neutral site game hosted by the Horizon League. Tickets are set up in a certain way...and the students are placed near their team benches...hence why Deteot hs their students in the student section last year.
Quote from: vu72 on February 19, 2013, 09:51:21 PM
around the conference. Somehow the interest on campus' in the Horizon League is really piss poor. Tonight, while hosting the best team in the conference, a school with 16,000 kids draws 1985? Huh? Valpo, with a student body of 4000 draws 5000 for the Detroit game.
When we played at Detroit, with the two best teams playing, they drew 3418 (not bad!) At Cleveland State they drew 2403. If, you can believe the box scores.
Here's my point: These are major cities with absolutely no interest in the Horizon League. We should hope for an eventual departure to the Valley where folks in smaller towns seem to really back their teams. 1985? A third full for a league leader? Sad.
First of all, if Valpo has a chance to bolt for the MVC, I'd say to go for it. It seems odd that that would happen at the same time Evansville is looking to move to the Horizon, but I admittedly haven't been following it very closely.
Despite being mediocre last season (your evaluation, not mine), almost 5,300 on average showed up to see Butler play their 9 road games in the Horizon. Strange that suddenly fans around the Horizon have lost interest in watching basketball.
On a related note, Butler has played six A-10 road games in front of six sellouts. VCU will be #7 and UMass (nearly 10,000 capacity) will either sellout or be very close. Butler has also faced at least two "t-shirt" games so far, so apparently Valpo isn't their only "rival". ;) I guess their timing was impeccable ... moving on just as they were beginning to be "dominated" by Valpo. Tip of the hat to Barry Collier for being a visionary.
Quote from: valpotx on February 19, 2013, 10:52:28 PM
When did that happen? I believe for the conference tournament, each school has equal access to tickets/seats
For Detroit and Butler last year, they bussed in students and filled them in the spot where the student section normally sits, and then placed Valpo fans in the makeshift bleachers under the opposing basket.
Already at a disadvantage as it is with the spring break schedule.
And I don't care what stupid rule they come up with why it has to be that way, flip the benches around or something. It shouldn't be this difficult.
Quote from: KL31NY on February 19, 2013, 10:51:06 PM
Also wh, I decided to check out this guitar solo in your signature... the video's been taken down :'(
Fixed. Thanks for pointing it out. :)
Quote from: wh on February 19, 2013, 10:42:49 PM
There are still a lot of codependent HL fans that miss Daddy Butler. He abused them unmercifully for years, both physically and emotionally, belittled them, mocked them, but he was all they knew. Suddenly Daddy deserts the family and they act like there's no longer a reason to get out of bed in the morning. I've never seen a group of people so infatuated by someone else's success - and so lost without it. Maybe it IS time to move on to a place with less dysfunction and dependency.
Don't exempt Valpo fans from this ... 5,237 showed up to see Butler last season, yet just over 3,000 have shown up to see the best team in the Horizon play this year. I encourage Valpo to explore their options, because the quality of opponents does make a difference. Butler is drawing significantly bigger crowds for A-10 games than they did for Horizon opponents.
Quote from: vu72 on February 19, 2013, 09:51:21 PM
around the conference. Somehow the interest on campus' in the Horizon League is really piss poor. Tonight, while hosting the best team in the conference, a school with 16,000 kids draws 1985? Huh? Valpo, with a student body of 4000 draws 5000 for the Detroit game.
When we played at Detroit, with the two best teams playing, they drew 3418 (not bad!) At Cleveland State they drew 2403. If, you can believe the box scores.
Here's my point: These are major cities with absolutely no interest in the Horizon League. We should hope for an eventual departure to the Valley where folks in smaller towns seem to really back their teams. 1985? A third full for a league leader? Sad.
You've stated on this board many times in the past that there is no reason to expand the ARC capacity-wise. Yet we should now hope for an eventual departure to a higher rated conference where fan support is stronger than the HL and whose membership may actually draw more fans to games. Thanks for clearing that up.
Quote from: crusaderjoe on February 20, 2013, 04:18:45 AM
Quote from: vu72 on February 19, 2013, 09:51:21 PM
around the conference. Somehow the interest on campus' in the Horizon League is really piss poor. Tonight, while hosting the best team in the conference, a school with 16,000 kids draws 1985? Huh? Alpo, with a student body of 4000 draws 5000 for the Detroit game.
When we played at Detroit, with the two best teams playing, they drew 3418 (not bad!) At Cleveland State they drew 2403. If, you can believe the box scores.
Here's my point: These are major cities with absolutely no interest in the Horizon League. We should hope for an eventual departure to the Valley where folks in smaller towns seem to really back their teams. 1985? A third full for a league leader? Sad.
You've stated on this board many times in the past that there is no reason to expand the ARC capacity-wise. Yet we should now hope for an eventual departure to a higher rated conference where fan support is stronger than the HL and whose membership may actually draw more fans to games. Thanks for clearing that up.
Huh?? The reason not to expand the ARC (in any significant way) is the keep the atmosphere intact. The point is to not have a 10,000 seat arena and have 3000 in attendance. Most importantly, I was referring to other schools lack of interest. If we joined the Valley OTHER schools would have better attendance and so would we. As a result instead of 2500-3500 for lesser teams we sellout. Not such a bad thing. Does that "clear things up" for you??
Quote from: zvillehaze on February 19, 2013, 11:28:46 PM
Quote from: wh on February 19, 2013, 10:42:49 PM
There are still a lot of codependent HL fans that miss Daddy Butler. He abused them unmercifully for years, both physically and emotionally, belittled them, mocked them, but he was all they knew. Suddenly Daddy deserts the family and they act like there's no longer a reason to get out of bed in the morning. I've never seen a group of people so infatuated by someone else's success - and so lost without it. Maybe it IS time to move on to a place with less dysfunction and dependency.
Don't exempt Valpo fans from this ... 5,237 showed up to see Butler last season, yet just over 3,000 have shown up to see the best team in the Horizon play this year. I encourage Valpo to explore their options, because the quality of opponents does make a difference. Butler is drawing significantly bigger crowds for A-10 games than they did for Horizon opponents.
On average, yes. The draw for the rest of the conference is about the same as when Butler was around. Yes, the Butler game was always pretty much a sellout but so was the Detroit game last week,and a very solid showing(over 4000) for the Green Bay game. The point is Valpo fans show up for league leaders (Butler or Detroit), and the other schools could care less.
If valpo went to the MVC, that would be awesome. I can't see any negatives from that
I like the idea of the mvc. It would be longer bus trips though (not much, but longer)
I heard Detroit fans state that their players are the like the fab 5 when it comes to reacting and playing in front of crowds. They play much better in front of large passionate crowds.
I just don't see us going anywhere in the next few years. Other teams have more of a claim to the MVC than us, mainly NDSU or SDSU. Larger schools that already dominate that football conference, and show that they are committed to successful D-1 sports
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 20, 2013, 09:51:57 AM
I like the idea of the mvc. It would be longer bus trips though (not much, but longer)
I would assume MBB would fly to the longer ones, but most of the other sports probably wouldn't be so lucky. Could you imagine going from Valparaiso, Indiana to Wichita, Kansas by BUS?!?!? oofta!
Quote from: valpotx on February 20, 2013, 09:55:58 AM
I just don't see us going anywhere in the next few years. Other teams have more of a claim to the MVC than us, mainly NDSU or SDSU. Larger schools that already dominate that football conference, and show that they are committed to successful D-1 sports
As a member of the UNI Panther message board as well, I've seen a few discussions like this already. We'd be a good fit in the conference from a competition standpoint, but some UNI fans like the Dakota schools due to proximity and the football connection. I'm one of the few people this year that has even mentioned Valpo on that board in general, let alone adding us...
If the Dakotas leave, thats it for the summit. I only want the MVC because it would be closer to myself. I don't want a water down A-10 with more travel. Hopefully we can make the HL stronger. We need higher RPI ranking teams and fans that attend the games. Detroit is a fun team to watch with nba talent and they never get close to selling out.
Quote from: KL31NY on February 20, 2013, 10:08:33 AM
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 20, 2013, 09:51:57 AM
I like the idea of the mvc. It would be longer bus trips though (not much, but longer)
I would assume MBB would fly to the longer ones, but most of the other sports probably wouldn't be so lucky. Could you imagine going from Valparaiso, Indiana to Wichita, Kansas by BUS?!?!? oofta!
Quote from: valpotx on February 20, 2013, 09:55:58 AM
I just don't see us going anywhere in the next few years. Other teams have more of a claim to the MVC than us, mainly NDSU or SDSU. Larger schools that already dominate that football conference, and show that they are committed to successful D-1 sports
As a member of the UNI Panther message board as well, I've seen a few discussions like this already. We'd be a good fit in the conference from a competition standpoint, but some UNI fans like the Dakota schools due to proximity and the football connection. I'm one of the few people this year that has even mentioned Valpo on that board in general, let alone adding us...
Quote from: valpotx on February 20, 2013, 09:55:58 AM
I just don't see us going anywhere in the next few years. Other teams have more of a claim to the MVC than us, mainly NDSU or SDSU. Larger schools that already dominate that football conference, and show that they are committed to successful D-1 sports
Two completely different conferences. The Valley already has Evansville (no football), Drake (PFL), Creighton (no football) Wichita State (no football) and Bradley (no football). That's half of the conference as it sits now. The Missouri Valley Football Conference is way different and includes the Dakota schools as well as YSU.
If Creighton left, we would be a very good replacement. And oh yeah, the correct spelling id UFF DA not OFFTA!! (Take it from a former Minnesotan!!)
OK, how about this: The Valley adds the Dakotas and The Horizon then takes the non-football, non-scholarship football schools, namely Bradley, Evansville, Drake and Creighton (if they were available) or Wichita State if they weren't willing to step up and play scholarship football. A nice combo deal!! Now I wonder how the Valley folks would feel about this trade--oh yeah, they would also add YSU because of their strong football team!! Sign us up!!!!!!!
Quote from: vu72 on February 20, 2013, 11:09:03 AM
If Creighton left, we would be a very good replacement.
I would agree that we would be a good fit, but for now, I think we're better off in the HL. When it comes to that scenario, I want to provide some extra perspective on CU since I've been working within the MVC this year...
Creighton leaving the MVC would be a bigger blow for that league as a whole than Butler leaving the HL... not even close. Sure, Creighton hasn't been to any national title games recently like Butler, but they still have a top team in a very good basketball conference (the MVC gets its title game on CBS, "Arch Madness" branding, good parity with Wichita St, Indiana St). The McDermotts have made a really name for this school these last couple years. In addition to its men's basketball, Creighton women's basketball is the best team in the league. They're in 2nd right now, but they're very good and built much like GB in our WBB league. Plus, Creighton has an amazing men's soccer program that goes deep in the national tourney, a volleyball team built to top the table and make the NCAAs for the next few seasons, a decent softball team, and baseball plays at TD Ameritrade Park, home of the College World Series.
In a simple scenario where we fill in for Creighton and the rest of the MVC remains the same, we not replace CU as the top dog. Wichita State is consistently with Creighton for tops in most of the big league sports. If we were to move in, that would be a fun new rivalry though. At this point, I'm content to keep our position in the HL. The geography works well, we're getting a nice foothold in some of our sports. Once we get a nice 10th school to fill our league (hopefully w/ baseball to keep the auto bid), our overall stock could grow greatly over the next few years
I think VU72's theory is actually pretty good. I'm guessing that Bradley, Drake, and Evansville aren't salivating at the chance to play Youngstown St., but an east-west alignment of Bradley and Evansville makes good sense.
Football probably still drives everything, so the Dakotas might be a fit with the Valley in all sports since they are already lined up with them in football.
I'm not saying that we aren't a fit for the MVC, just that we won't be first in line. I think that we would compete very well in all sports in the MVC.
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 20, 2013, 10:55:44 AM
If the Dakotas leave, thats it for the summit. I only want the MVC because it would be closer to myself. I don't want a water down A-10 with more travel. Hopefully we can make the HL stronger. We need higher RPI ranking teams and fans that attend the games. Detroit is a fun team to watch with nba talent and they never get close to selling out.
I feel this is all unnecessary discussion until we find out who is/are the school or schools that the Horizon League is adding which will be soon. It's probably about 2 to 3 weeks away.
Quote from: valpotx on February 20, 2013, 12:39:51 PM
I'm not saying that we aren't a fit for the MVC, just that we won't be first in line. I think that we would compete very well in all sports in the MVC.
OK, now you have me wondering, is there any relationship between the football and non-football conferences? I doubt it. The Dakotas (NDSU and SDSU) aren't going to leave the football conference because of the revenue. As a result they would be joining for the other sports and geographically they don't fit anywhere near as well as Valpo. From a basketball standpoint we would add a much better profile than the Dakotas and are now ranked 77th in the Sagarins vesus their 94 and 98. Baseball, Volleyball and softball wise we would compete very well.
Quote from: vu72 on February 20, 2013, 01:26:25 PMOK, now you have me wondering, is there any relationship between the football and non-football conferences?
The only real relationship is that they are run out the same St Louis office that says Missouri Valley Conference on it. Until rather recently the football conference was known as the Gateway Conference (in reference to St Louis) while it has always been run by the same people who run the Missouri Valley in the same offices.
From wikipedia: (it's a long convoluted explanation which also involes the Mid-Con/Summit)
The Missouri Valley Football Conference has a convoluted history that involves three other conferences:
Missouri Valley Conference (MVC): A long-established conference, in existence since 1907, that sponsored football until 1985. In its last years as a football conference, it was a hybrid league that included teams in NCAA Divisions I-A (today's FBS) and I-AA (now FCS).
Gateway Collegiate Athletic Conference (Gateway): A women's sports conference founded in 1982 by MVC member schools.[1][2]
Association of Mid-Continent Universities (AMCU): An all-sports conference, also founded in 1982, that sponsored football at the I-AA level through the 1984 season. The AMCU had absorbed the Mid-Continent Athletic Association, a football-only league founded in 1978. (After dropping football, the AMCU later became the Mid-Continent Conference, and is now The Summit League.)
In 1985, the MVC stopped sponsoring football. At that time, the two remaining I-AA members from the MVC (Illinois State and Southern Illinois) joined Eastern Illinois, Northern Iowa, Southwest Missouri State, and Western Illinois from the AMCU and together became a football conference under the Gateway's auspices.[3] Indiana State, which had left MVC football after the 1981 season to become a Division I-AA independent while remaining a full MVC member, would join the next year.[4]
In 1992, when the Gateway Collegiate Athletic Conference merged with the MVC,[1] the football conference kept the Gateway charter, with a minor name change to Gateway Football Conference. After Eastern Illinois joined the Ohio Valley Conference for football in 1995, Youngstown State joined in 1997 and was followed by Western Kentucky University (WKU) in 2001. Southwest Missouri State changed its name to Missouri State in 2005. The Gateway changed its name to the Missouri Valley Football Conference in 2008.
On November 2, 2006, WKU's Board of Regents approved a proposal by the school's president to upgrade the Hilltoppers football program to the Division I Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS; formerly Division I-A). WKU left the GFC after the 2006 season, went through the two-year "reclassification" period mandated by the NCAA for schools moving from the FCS to the FBS, and became a football member of its all-sports conference, the Sun Belt Conference, in 2009.[5]
Due to WKU's move, the Gateway was left with 7 members for the 2007 season. However, Great West Football Conference members North Dakota State and South Dakota State were asked to submit information about themselves and to attend the conference presidents' meeting.[6] On March 7, 2007, the conference announced that both schools would join the conference beginning with the 2008 season.[7]
On June 6, 2008, the Gateway Football Conference changed its name to the Missouri Valley Football Conference, effective immediately. This change aligns the conference with the Missouri Valley Conference, a conference in which five of the nine Missouri Valley Football schools participate. The conferences will share the "Missouri Valley" name but will remain separate administratively.[8]
On November 4, 2010, the University of South Dakota was invited as the 10th member. This renewed an in-state rivalry with fellow MVFC member South Dakota State.
Yes, bbtds is correct in what he cites. The Gateway changed to the MVFC to better show that they are essentially run by the same people. On another note, the commissioner for the MVFC is the same as the commissioner for the PFL.
Shared name but not shared revenue.
Quote from: ValpoHoops on February 19, 2013, 10:55:45 PMKeep in mind that even though we are the home team, it is "technically" a neutral site game hosted by the Horizon League. Tickets are set up in a certain way...and the students are placed near their team benches...hence why Deteot hs their students in the student section last year.
No Kidding! You should see the script and the instructions I get for the home games. such as "all voice inflections must be equal" "all player introductions must be neutral" "absolutely no favoritism is tolerated" As Mark Lazerus wrote a few years ago... "it's got to be killing me" You Bet! But the HL staff are right there beside me or within earshot every minute of every game.
Your reward for winning the league: home court advantage!
EXCEPT NOT REALLY HOME COURT ADVANTAGE
NEUTRAL COURT ADVANTAGE!!!!1!
I wonder if the other leagues that have their #1 seed host, have the same restrictions?
Quote from: valpotx on February 20, 2013, 05:02:27 PM
I wonder if the other leagues that have their #1 seed host, have the same restrictions?
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on February 20, 2013, 04:40:43 PM
Your reward for winning the league: home court advantage!
EXCEPT NOT REALLY HOME COURT ADVANTAGE
NEUTRAL COURT ADVANTAGE!!!!1!
Wouldn't the Horizon League be better suited to give the home team an absolute advantage? Last year Detroit won and ended with a 15 seed. Valpo with a 13-14 seed could have been better represented the Horizon League. If Valpo drops the next two games and Detroit or whatever hosts, the Horizon League would be better suited to give an absolute advantage to Detroit rather than Valpo who could end in a 14-15 seed.
And I still believe Valpo could do something about the stands situation. Hell put the same makeshift bleachers on both sides, the current student section seats fold down. You shouldn't be able to GIVE A FLIPPING ADVANTAGE TO THE AWAY TEAM when hosting the tournament.
Quote from: talksalot on February 20, 2013, 04:08:41 PMNo Kidding! You should see the script and the instructions I get for the home games. such as "all voice inflections must be equal" "all player introductions must be neutral" "absolutely no favoritism is tolerated" As Mark Lazerus wrote a few years ago... "it's got to be killing me" You Bet! But the HL staff are right there beside me or within earshot every minute of every game.
Yes and if you can't perform as scripted then we will have to find somebody that can. We would have to start with somebody that has no Horizon League connection and is bored :snore: almost to tears :'( by even the HL's best. Hey! What is Z-ville doing the 9th and the 12th?
Quote from: justducky on February 20, 2013, 06:17:10 PMHey! What is Z-ville doing the 9th and the 12th?
*dying laughing
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on February 20, 2013, 07:27:26 PM
Quote from: justducky on February 20, 2013, 06:17:10 PMHey! What is Z-ville doing the 9th and the 12th?
*dying laughing
I'm flattered. Can't make the 9th (Butler-X game and alumni event), but I'm definitely free on the 12th! I think I could be impartial, although I must admit to being a huge fan of Jeff Simmons and Mo Smith when they were playing for Coach Rochlitz. :thumbsup:
The Rule is... I have to be the SAME... so if I pump up a Valpo play... I have to pump up the opposition's play as well. So I tried that last year... Ray McCalleum for THREE!!! (Crickets chirping).... Ryan Broekhoff for THREE!! Eruption... and looks from the HL folks.... On the other hand, it would be easier to announce someone else's tournament, where I don't have an opinion on the winner.
Quote from: a3uge on February 20, 2013, 05:44:29 PMWouldn't the Horizon League be better suited to give the home team an absolute advantage? Last year Detroit won and ended with a 15 seed. Valpo with a 13-14 seed could have been better represented the Horizon League. If Valpo drops the next two games and Detroit or whatever hosts, the Horizon League would be better suited to give an absolute advantage to Detroit rather than Valpo who could end in a 14-15 seed.
That's the way it might often work, yes. With the SOS situation this year, Detroit will likely have the best RPI no matter what happens down the stretch and in the tournament. So, one could argue that this year it's _not_ the #1 seed that would get the best NCAA seed...
Quote from: agibson on February 21, 2013, 08:35:23 AM
Quote from: a3uge on February 20, 2013, 05:44:29 PMWouldn't the Horizon League be better suited to give the home team an absolute advantage? Last year Detroit won and ended with a 15 seed. Valpo with a 13-14 seed could have been better represented the Horizon League. If Valpo drops the next two games and Detroit or whatever hosts, the Horizon League would be better suited to give an absolute advantage to Detroit rather than Valpo who could end in a 14-15 seed.
That's the way it might often work, yes. With the SOS situation this year, Detroit will likely have the best RPI no matter what happens down the stretch and in the tournament. So, one could argue that this year it's _not_ the #1 seed that would get the best NCAA seed...
However, the committee looks at more than just rpi. It looks at hiow many games were played on the road, key injuries, recent performance etc. There are big conference teams with good rpi's that will not make the tourney because they didn't play any non-conference games away from home. Having said that, I think Detroit has played a good non-conference schedule (better than us) and if they beat us twice at our place will end up with a better seed than what we might receive.
I look forward to next year's home schedule. If we don't get a lot of fans for most of these games, something is wrong. We should have the below if all return the game:
Murray State
New Mexico
St. Louis
Loyola Marymount
Missouri State
Oakland
Obviously, it depends on what each team is losing from this year's group, but those are at least better name programs to hopefully entice the locals.
Quote from: valpotx on February 21, 2013, 11:39:29 AMWe should have the below if all return the game:
Murray State
New Mexico
St. Louis
Loyola Marymount
Missouri State
Oakland
It'll be a great home schedule next year...I've been pumped about it since they announced this years schedule. Though I don't believe Missouri State will be returning next year. Our game this year was a return game from a bracketbuster 2 years ago. (The one where we wooped them in front of Dickie V) Also, I believe I heard the Oakland deal was up? Or I could be completely wrong on that. (Who knows, it might be a conference game against them ;) )
Quote from: valpotx on February 21, 2013, 11:39:29 AMObviously, it depends on what each team is losing from this year's group, but those are at least better name programs to hopefully entice the locals.
It'll depend on what our young team is doing, also. But, hopefully we're at least able to provide good, competitive games.
Quote from: agibson on February 21, 2013, 03:57:03 PM
Quote from: valpotx on February 21, 2013, 11:39:29 AMObviously, it depends on what each team is losing from this year's group, but those are at least better name programs to hopefully entice the locals.
It'll depend on what our young team is doing, also. But, hopefully we're at least able to provide good, competitive games.
Well, we won'y be the oldest team in D1 as we are now, but we will be young and old. On the "Old" front we will have Bobby, as a 5th year Senior, Jorda and LaVonte as Seniors, David Chadwick as a 4th year Junior, Vashil as a Junior and Keith Carter as a Sophomore. Then you add in the six freshman. So our starting lineup could very well include three seniors a junior and a sophomore. What happens after that that is the experience question!! Of course we still have one openning and possibly Bryce can add an experienced guy who could play right away. We'll see
Quote from: vu72 on February 21, 2013, 04:30:41 PM
Quote from: agibson on February 21, 2013, 03:57:03 PM
Quote from: valpotx on February 21, 2013, 11:39:29 AMObviously, it depends on what each team is losing from this year's group, but those are at least better name programs to hopefully entice the locals.
It'll depend on what our young team is doing, also. But, hopefully we're at least able to provide good, competitive games.
Well, we won'y be the oldest team in D1 as we are now, but we will be young and old. On the "Old" front we will have Bobby, as a 5th year Senior, Jorda and LaVonte as Seniors, David Chadwick as a 4th year Junior, Vashil as a Junior and Keith Carter as a Sophomore. Then you add in the six freshman. So our starting lineup could very well include three seniors a junior and a sophomore. What happens after that that is the experience question!! Of course we still have one openning and possibly Bryce can add an experienced guy who could play right away. We'll see
Don't forget about Rossie who will be a Sophomore or Junior, will he get the redshirt or not?
No Missouri State next year.... our game there was the return engagement of the BBuster a few years ago.
(unless we get another home and home against them... I doubt it; if the league goes up to 12 teams, we will lose 6 non-conference opportunities (assuming we play everyone H/A)
Quote from: talksalot on February 21, 2013, 04:39:50 PM
No Missouri State next year.... our game there was the return engagement of the BBuster a few years ago.
(unless we get another home and home against them... I doubt it; if the league goes up to 12 teams, we will lose 6 non-conference opportunities (assuming we play everyone H/A)
You really think the Horizon would go to 22 league games? I don't see any other conference playing that many, but I guess the Horizon could opt to do that since teams will also be replacing a bracketbuster game.
Most conferences that are 12+ teams either use divisions or play some sort of unbalanced schedule.
I'm thinking year one... maybe... so everyone is on equal par...who's going to complain about not having to play _____fill in the blank___
see if we can develop some rivalry and road trips...
Quote from: talksalot on February 21, 2013, 04:39:50 PMwe will lose 6 non-conference opportunities
wouldn't that be a GOOD thing? nobody plays the Chicago States, NIUs of the world. think of the possibilities...
I'd think either Peters or Adekoya or perhaps both will be starters from the get go.
Quote from: chef on February 21, 2013, 11:51:21 PMI'd think either Peters or Adekoya or perhaps both will be starters from the get go.
Wow! That's high praise (we know they're good, but they aren't coming into a total vacuum)--now do you see them as a 3 and 4 respectively, with Bobby at the 5, or as a 4 and 5 with a Rossi or Yeo at 3, f'rinstance?
Where does Chadwick fit in this mix?
Carter at the 1, Dority at the 2, and Capobianco at the 5. The other 2 spots are the most wide open. Coleman, Peters and Adekoya are the most likely candidates. During the first month when Carter is not eligible, Coleman could very well start in the backcourt. Thus, the comment that Peters and/or Adekoya could start from the get go. These two are extremely highly touted players for a mid-major. Remember both could have gone to BCS schools. Not saying they're going to be all-conference players right away, but the plan is for both to have an impact the moment they step onto campus.
Quote from: chef on February 22, 2013, 12:53:36 PM
Carter at the 1, Dority at the 2, and Capobianco at the 5. The other 2 spots are the most wide open. Coleman, Peters and Adekoya are the most likely candidates. During the first month when Carter is not eligible, Coleman could very well start in the backcourt. Thus, the comment that Peters and/or Adekoya could start from the get go. These two are extremely highly touted players for a mid-major. Remember both could have gone to BCS schools. Not saying they're going to be all-conference players right away, but the plan is for both to have an impact the moment they step onto campus.
Are the other freshman viewed as needing some muscle, experience or both before they can contribute or is it a matter of not enough minutes to go around? And what about Rossi and Chadwick? Neither came to Valpo to ride the pines, they could have done that where they were.
I don't think a coach is ever going to bring in a player that he doesn't think can make the rotation. However, Bryce is never going to have a 12 or 13 man rotation. That's not realistic for any D-I school. So it becomes a numbers game. The hope is all these freshman will contribute at some time. Next year, and this is my opinion - Carter, Dority, Coleman, Rossi, Adekoya, Peters, Capobianco and Fernandez will all be given a shot early on. A few others can be in the mix and that will depend on what happens in October. Sometimes a player shows up and exceeds expectations (Dwayne Toatley and Chris Ensminger). Other players have come in ranked very high and they fail to live up to expectations (Jimmie Miles and Jay Harris). Recruiting is a real crap shoot. Right now, the expectations are high for Peters and Adekoya.
Very good freshmen usually make contributions but it is difficult to expect big things from them. Consistency is a key factor. They are playing against more more physically mature players. If a freshman is physically ready to play in this conference, quite often they are recruited to a higher conference....
Look at Ryan's freshman year for example. Not bad, but he exploded on the scene his junior season. Of course part of that was the pecking order at the time.
I agree, Peters seems to be the one freshman that will be ready to make an impact with Adekoya being in the rotation.
lowposter
I personally don't think we need to up the capacity at all. Let's be honest we don't sell out often so its not like there are fans that are ready to fill seats that aren't available. If we stayed around 4k seats that would be fine. We do however need a bowl shape with out bleachers. My back and bottom always hurt by the second half. If we had a capacity of 4k with a bowl shaped regular chairbacks I don't think anyone would complain. Its a shame only 3300 turned out for a Saturday nationally televised game. Regaurdless of what was on the line we had that many at one of our exhibition games......the crusaders need more loyoal fans and stop changing the price of tickets for no reason
Quote from: truth219 on February 24, 2013, 02:09:54 PM
I personally don't think we need to up the capacity at all. ...... We do however need a bowl shape with out bleachers. ...... chairbacks ..... . stop changing the price of tickets for no reason
- Agree, I don't understand the discussion around increasing capacity...
- Bowl shape is okay but I don't really like sitting in the corners... (Also more lower seats sometimes makes a place look even more empty.)
- Had chair backs for the last game and I did not like it as much as bleacher style...
- totally agree on the pricing ... It is stupid. Fine you can make more money but it is frustrating and probably keeps some away from the game... (I think they need more deals if tickets are not selling so they can fill er up...)
No the chairbacks we have now are awful. There isn't any room in the chairbacks. You are shoulder to shoulder and its all senior citizens no offense but its an old crowd. If they revamped the arc they would have to make them comfortable chairbacks with some space...like cleveland states got just a smaller arena. Until they do something with the arc however, I think you should be able to get season tickets in the upper deck for 100 bucks...
Quote from: truth219 on February 24, 2013, 05:43:15 PM
No the chairbacks we have now are awful. There isn't any room in the chairbacks. You are shoulder to shoulder and its all senior citizens no offense but its an old crowd. If they revamped the arc they would have to make them comfortable chairbacks with some space...like cleveland states got just a smaller arena. Until they do something with the arc however, I think you should be able to get season tickets in the upper deck for 100 bucks...
100 bucks - - - truth, I think the place would really be empty. (if we had 3000 attendance they would be pulling in $300,000 a game....)
Season tickets for the upper deck now are currently 175....I think it would be nice if they were 100 even.
I think Smj misunderstood...$100 for the year, not per game.
Thought you added a zero.......
There is a forecast for a big storm on Tuesday with possibility of 6 inches of snow by game time. I hope this doesn't diminish the crowd for senior night:
"Snow, possibly mixed with sleet, is expected to begin late Tuesday morning and continue through Tuesday night before tapering off early Tuesday night, with winds gusting to 40 mph."
Here's my thought on the forecast
Folks heading out to the game, allow yourself some extra time for travel. Take care heading over and back to your homes, bundle up and stay warm. Students, you're probably already complaining Tuesday's weather. Suck it up and go to your classes, and if you truly love basketball and this team in particular, "brave the elements" one more time to have some fun and watch some hoops. The guys love your attendance and enthusiasm, and our seniors specifically deserve a good crowd and a nice send-off heading into Green Bay and the Horizon League Tournament.
Make it happen #CrusaderNation
Quote from: valpopal on February 25, 2013, 10:25:43 AM
There is a forecast for a big storm on Tuesday with possibility of 6 inches of snow by game time. I hope this doesn't diminish the crowd for senior night:
"Snow, possibly mixed with sleet, is expected to begin late Tuesday morning and continue through Tuesday night before tapering off early Tuesday night, with winds gusting to 40 mph."
Had also planned on doing some work in Valpo on Tuesday and staying for the game. If the storm is coming don't really want to be driving 100 miles on US 30. Can we get a confirmation from vuweathernerd? :)
Quote from: FWalum on February 25, 2013, 10:43:49 AM
Quote from: valpopal on February 25, 2013, 10:25:43 AM
There is a forecast for a big storm on Tuesday with possibility of 6 inches of snow by game time. I hope this doesn't diminish the crowd for senior night:
"Snow, possibly mixed with sleet, is expected to begin late Tuesday morning and continue through Tuesday night before tapering off early Tuesday night, with winds gusting to 40 mph."
Had also planned on doing some work in Valpo on Tuesday and staying for the game. If the storm is coming don't really want to be driving 100 miles on US 30. Can we get a confirmation from vuweathernerd? :)
Valpo is not going to get much snow from this. I don't know where valpopal's forecast is from, but the NWS (http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?map.x=291&map.y=146&site=lot&zmx=1&zmy=1) has this:
Tuesday: Snow before 9am, then snow and sleet between 9am and noon, then rain and snow after noon. High near 36. Breezy, with a east northeast wind 15 to 25 mph, with gusts as high as 30 mph. Chance of precipitation is 100%. New snow and sleet accumulation of less than a half inch possible.
Tuesday Night: Rain and snow, becoming all snow after 9pm. Low around 29. East northeast wind 5 to 15 mph becoming north after midnight. Winds could gust as high as 20 mph. Chance of precipitation is 80%. New snow accumulation of 1 to 2 inches possible.The storm track and current setup is such that Valpo and vicinity will be too warm for any major snowfall.
Quote from: valpo04 on February 25, 2013, 11:07:33 AM
Quote from: FWalum on February 25, 2013, 10:43:49 AM
Quote from: valpopal on February 25, 2013, 10:25:43 AM
There is a forecast for a big storm on Tuesday with possibility of 6 inches of snow by game time. I hope this doesn't diminish the crowd for senior night:
"Snow, possibly mixed with sleet, is expected to begin late Tuesday morning and continue through Tuesday night before tapering off early Tuesday night, with winds gusting to 40 mph."
Had also planned on doing some work in Valpo on Tuesday and staying for the game. If the storm is coming don't really want to be driving 100 miles on US 30. Can we get a confirmation from vuweathernerd? :)
Valpo is not going to get much snow from this. I don't know where valpopal's forecast is from, but the NWS (http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?map.x=291&map.y=146&site=lot&zmx=1&zmy=1) has this:
Tuesday: Snow before 9am, then snow and sleet between 9am and noon, then rain and snow after noon. High near 36. Breezy, with a east northeast wind 15 to 25 mph, with gusts as high as 30 mph. Chance of precipitation is 100%. New snow and sleet accumulation of less than a half inch possible.
Tuesday Night: Rain and snow, becoming all snow after 9pm. Low around 29. East northeast wind 5 to 15 mph becoming north after midnight. Winds could gust as high as 20 mph. Chance of precipitation is 80%. New snow accumulation of 1 to 2 inches possible.
The storm track and current setup is such that Valpo and vicinity will be too warm for any major snowfall.
I hope you are right. I got the forecast from our own NWI Times: http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/illinois/winter-storm-could-dump-inches-of-snow-tuesday/article_ea720c7f-d427-5305-a6a6-361f2e6e0d2d.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/illinois/winter-storm-could-dump-inches-of-snow-tuesday/article_ea720c7f-d427-5305-a6a6-361f2e6e0d2d.html)
Even that article doesn't sounds so bad.
Quote
the worst conditions will take place between late morning and late afternoon
Here is the key paragraph in that story on the weather in Valpo:
Cook, Will and LaPorte counties are under a winter storm watch all day Tuesday, but Izzi said he anticipates a winter weather advisory will be issued for those counties and all others in Northwest Indiana by day's end Monday.
It sounds like the worst of the storm goes over Illinois then over Lake Michigan and into LaPorte County in Indiana with Valpo and Porter County getting the lesser of the storm which will mainly will pass over the lake. It also sounds like the storm will be downgraded in severity on tonight (Monday) due to the temperature rising above the freezing mark.
been worried about this all day but the Chicago area forecast was already downgraded from what it was earlier today and hopefully I can get on the road before the snow is supposed to start here at 3 or 4.
Not missing this game for the world!
Bought my tickets and planning to drive from the milwaukee area.... If it is too ugly I will be unable to make the 3 hour trip. I would be very disappointed... (However, bad weather on my drive home could make for a VERY long drive home.)
In regards to the main topic of this thread.
I would argue that the main reason why attendance has been down this year is that this team did not build up any local interest from November into mid-January. There was not a single home game while school was in session against a quality opponent. As I have ranted about before on this site, this was a major mistake by the program since there are six seniors that people really like. I would argue that the Detroit turnout was an exception and that the paltry crowd for the EKU game was the norm this season. Getting the conference tourney would reduce the impact of the poor scheduling...but the team really needs to get to the NCAAs (and at least play well) to build some attendance momentum.
One last comment - it is really shame that these seniors (especially Buggs, Broekhoff and Kenney who have been here for four years) were rewarded with such poor home schedules for their junior and senior season. It is great that they have all just kept playing hard regardless of where they have been playing.
Quote from: vu84v2 on February 26, 2013, 09:13:43 AM
In regards to the main topic of this thread.
I would argue that the main reason why attendance has been down this year is that this team did not build up any local interest from November into mid-January. There was not a single home game while school was in session against a quality opponent. As I have ranted about before on this site, this was a major mistake by the program since there are six seniors that people really like. I would argue that the Detroit turnout was an exception and that the paltry crowd for the EKU game was the norm this season. Getting the conference tourney would reduce the impact of the poor scheduling...but the team really needs to get to the NCAAs (and at least play well) to build some attendance momentum.
One last comment - it is really shame that these seniors (especially Buggs, Broekhoff and Kenney who have been here for four years) were rewarded with such poor home schedules for their junior and senior season. It is great that they have all just kept playing hard regardless of where they have been playing.
These points are well made. People can make excuses that the league's "last minute" decision to force Butler's hand to leave a year early threw scheduling into a pickle (which it probably did to some extent), the fact remains that the non-conference home schedule did nothing to attract "casual" fans and build momentum for the conference season. That combined with huge missed opportunities to publicly promote "the returning HL champs with the returning POY" in a major marketing campaign have resulted in the best kept secret in Northwest Indiana.
I would have to think that opposing coaches noticed that we were returning just about our entire team, and would have 6 seniors on the roster. Unless your team is going to win regardless of who you play, would you have scheduled to play at our place this year? I bet that the teams we played on the road this year are perfectly fine returning the game next year when we are a majority FR team, which is why it was at their place this year, rather than the other way around. I am not sure how the BB return games work, but maybe even Loyola Marymount put off the return requirement until next season for the same reason. They are terrible this year, and we would have won by 30.
Quote from: vu84v2 on February 26, 2013, 09:13:43 AMI would argue that the main reason why attendance has been down this year
Is that actually true? I've not seen the aggregate numbers, but attendance hasn't particularly felt _worse_.
If it is numerically worse, is that still true if you take out the two Butler games at the ARC last year?
Quote from: agibson on February 26, 2013, 11:29:59 AM
Quote from: vu84v2 on February 26, 2013, 09:13:43 AMI would argue that the main reason why attendance has been down this year
Is that actually true? I've not seen the aggregate numbers, but attendance hasn't particularly felt _worse_.
If it is numerically worse, is that still true if you take out the two Butler games at the ARC last year?
Kind of.
Avg Home Attendance of Every Game
2011-2012: 3,312.74 (3,174.59 sans HL tourney)
2012-2013: 3,042.00
Avg Home Attendance of Conference Games
2011-2012: 3,543.89 (3332.25 sans butler)
2012-2013: 3,751.86
So as of now, it's down technically on average, but given a good night tonight (attendance and a win), avg attendance should be higher than last year, despite not having that one Butler game.
Edit - flobbed up some numbers
That's definitely an interesting fact. Good to see that we are at least making some headway in the community again, even without Butler
looks to me like our non-con lack of anything impressive schedule hurts our overall numbers, but last year's championship may have led to some more people showing for conference games. hopefully both numbers trend upwards next year.
Quote from: valpotx on February 26, 2013, 12:01:19 PM
That's definitely an interesting fact. Good to see that we are at least making some headway in the community again, even without Butler
Tex, you've said it yourself before. When you were in school students and the community showed up regardless of who we played. That should be happening now - and more, but it isn't.
Think about it. We are the premier team in the HL, we are the defending regular season champions, we have the returning HL POY and another returning 1st teamer, we have numerous transfers from BCS conferences, we are in 1st place in the HL, we already have 20 wins, we are on track to have one of the best W/L records in the history of the program, we have locked in the best recruiting class in the history of the program for next year, last year's runner-up to the top player in IL just transferred in, the best and most popular player in the history of the program is our coach (who was also the best player in the history of the local high school), we have been on national TV numerous times, we have 2 local newspapers that cover our every move, we have free, convenient parking practically across the street, we have dirt cheap concessions compared to our competitors, the conference and competition we play in is by far superior to the one we used to be in, etc., etc., etc.
And yet - we only draw 3000 people? Are you kidding? The ARC should be packed every night. It shouldn't matter whether it's Youngstown State or Ohio State because people should be excited to see US, not our opponent. The student section should be filled to capacity every game. "Valpo wear" should be in demand everywhere in the community. No one should ever have to ask some waiter at BW's or Wings, Etc. to pretty please turn on the VU game. They should be so in tune to when we are playing that it would automatically be on along with food and drink promotions on game night.
These things should be common place - but they're not. This is about the best this program is ever going to be and this is what we have to show for it?
This is a colossal Valparaiso University Athletic Department failure. Put the blame where it belongs. Bryce Drew assembles one the top Mid Major programs in the United States and they can't sell it to the community or their own students. I'm sure they have 50 pat excuses; sadly, that's all they'll ever have.
Well, I definitely agree with what you say as well. I was more speaking to the fact that our conference attendance is up this year, in spite of our rival Butler no longer playing us. That is at least 1 positive development going for the program. However, as you mention, we would just about sell out EVERY game back then. It didn't matter that we didn't care about Southern Utah, Centenary, Kansas City, or even the mighty Cougars of Chicago State, it was a great environment filled with 4k-5k fans. What will it take to get back to that??
I would also say that this is the best overall incoming class of recruits we have ever had, along with Keith Carter. These are local midwest guys as well. Nothing against the international guys, as they have been absolutely awesome for our program, but if the community/students can't rally behind local IN/IL kids, what will they rally behind?
I am sure that we will be discussing this next year and the few years after as well, when we should keep on with the winning tradition. Even though we may struggle at the beginning of next season, I think that our new guys will get it together to have another 20 win season. Say that we ended up in the top 25 for a few years. What excuse will the students and community use at that time to not show up?
Bryce is definitely doing his part in getting top quality prospects, and extends his hand out to the community and students. I can understand the community if the prices have gone up, but the students? It is free to attend, and regardless of how many excuses you can come up with, you have a lot more time on your hands than the normal adult who can manage to be what I call a 'true fan.' If I can go to school full-time, play/practice baseball 20-40 hours per week, maintain a 3.7+ GPA, and still catch every home game (outside of road trips in baseball of course), then so can any of you.
Just got back home to Valpo from Michigan City...it's slick out there. The weather/roads/high school sectional play (unless its cancelled) could definitely hurt attendance tonight.
Quote from: valpotx on February 26, 2013, 02:43:10 PMI would also say that this is the best overall incoming class of recruits we have ever had
Huh - I'm a little surprised that you guys are _so_ enthusiastic about these guys. I mean, consensus seems to be it's a pretty solid class, but, best ever?
If memory serves, the scouting agencies seem not to necessarily agree?
Quote from: agibson on February 26, 2013, 03:26:47 PM
Quote from: valpotx on February 26, 2013, 02:43:10 PMI would also say that this is the best overall incoming class of recruits we have ever had
Huh - I'm a little surprised that you guys are _so_ enthusiastic about these guys. I mean, consensus seems to be it's a pretty solid class, but, best ever?
If memory serves, the scouting agencies seem not to necessarily agree?
That's what you took away from my sermon? ???
Quote from: agibson on February 26, 2013, 03:26:47 PM
Quote from: valpotx on February 26, 2013, 02:43:10 PMI would also say that this is the best overall incoming class of recruits we have ever had
Huh - I'm a little surprised that you guys are _so_ enthusiastic about these guys. I mean, consensus seems to be it's a pretty solid class, but, best ever?
If memory serves, the scouting agencies seem not to necessarily agree?
Well, we probably have two Indiana All Stars in Davidson and Yeo, that's a pretty good start. Peters will be a First Team All Stater in Illinois and Adekoya probably an all Chicago area pick at the least. Don't know what to say about Lexus Williams as I just don't know. Add to these guys Keith Carter, a First Team all Stater from Illinois and runner-up for Mr. Basketball, and I'd say, on paper, it's the best. Other classes have had as much glitch (Miles, Harris et al) but they obviously didn't work out.
Quote from: agibson on February 26, 2013, 03:26:47 PM
Quote from: valpotx on February 26, 2013, 02:43:10 PMI would also say that this is the best overall incoming class of recruits we have ever had
Huh - I'm a little surprised that you guys are _so_ enthusiastic about these guys. I mean, consensus seems to be it's a pretty solid class, but, best ever?
If memory serves, the scouting agencies seem not to necessarily agree?
Not sure about scouting agencies, but I am convinced the incoming group of freshmen for next year has the most potential of any overall freshman class Valpo has had—then you add Carter, Chadwick, a healthy Rossi, and the possibility of one more addition to the mix. The only other times in Valpo history I have seen as much excitement about freshmen recruits were with the signings of Kenny Harris and, of course, Bryce.
Quote from: wh on February 26, 2013, 02:26:56 PMQuote from: valpotx on February 26, 2013, 12:01:19 PMThat's definitely an interesting fact. Good to see that we are at least making some headway in the community again, even without Butler
Tex, you've said it yourself before. When you were in school students and the community showed up regardless of who we played. That should be happening now - and more, but it isn't. Think about it. We are the premier team in the HL, we are the defending regular season champions, we have the returning HL POY and another returning 1st teamer, we have numerous transfers from BCS conferences, we are in 1st place in the HL, we already have 20 wins, we are on track to have one of the best W/L records in the history of the program, we have locked in the best recruiting class in the history of the program for next year, last year's runner-up to the top player in IL just transferred in, the best and most popular player in the history of the program is our coach (who was also the best player in the history of the local high school), we have been on national TV numerous times, we have 2 local newspapers that cover our every move, we have free, convenient parking practically across the street, we have dirt cheap concessions compared to our competitors, the conference and competition we play in is by far superior to the one we used to be in, etc., etc., etc. And yet - we only draw 3000 people? Are you kidding? The ARC should be packed every night. It shouldn't matter whether it's Youngstown State or Ohio State because people should be excited to see US, not our opponent. The student section should be filled to capacity every game. "Valpo wear" should be in demand everywhere in the community. No one should ever have to ask some waiter at BW's or Wings, Etc. to pretty please turn on the VU game. They should be so in tune to when we are playing that it would automatically be on along with food and drink promotions on game night. These things should be common place - but they're not. This is about the best this program is ever going to be and this is what we have to show for it? This is a colossal Valparaiso University Athletic Department failure. Put the blame where it belongs. Bryce Drew assembles one the top Mid Major programs in the United States and they can't sell it to the community or their own students. I'm sure they have 50 pat excuses; sadly, that's all they'll ever have.
The one thing that is lacking and the difference between Bryce's playing days and his coaching days is that the team has not made the NCAA tournament since 2004. If Valpo can make it to the Big Dance the fans can see their team play for all the marbles. When they finally make the Big Dance the fans will be back.Now that is something the Athletic Dept should be able to sell.
With Valpo HIGH playing in the Michigan City Sectional tonight ... some of the locals have a difficult decision to make. The Valparaiso team is favored to win both games...maybe the weather will keep some people in town to hit the ARC
speaking of weather... you can check out the webcam on top of the Christopher Center... oh wait...
http://www.valpo.edu/union/webcam.php (http://www.valpo.edu/union/webcam.php)
maybe we can get someone up on the roof with a squeegie.
Quote from: talksalot on February 26, 2013, 04:41:34 PM
With Valpo HIGH playing in the Michigan City Sectional tonight ... some of the locals have a difficult decision to make. The Valparaiso team is favored to win both games...maybe the weather will keep some people in town to hit the ARC
Sectionals at
Michigan City (Portage, Valpo, Chesterton, LaPorte),
Kankakee Valley (Andrean, KV, Knox, Calumet),
Plymouth (New Prairie, SB St. Joseph),
Winamac (North Judson, Winamac, North Newton, Rochester), among others that are outside the region (not that Plymouth really counts...) have already been postponed for the evening.
I wouldn't be shocked to see some others (Kouts, Wheeler, Hammond, Gary West Side) get pushed back this evening as well.
(http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/4849/chart1r.png)
Based off of http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/NCAA/Resources/Stats/M+Basketball/Attendance/index.html (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/NCAA/Resources/Stats/M+Basketball/Attendance/index.html)
(http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/8856/screenshotfrom201302261b.png)
The rest of the numbers based off of wikipedia (don't know how accurate either of those numbers are)
Here's the full spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aj_IFiP8d0E1dFVEVEVHYk9oeFJQcHhTcG10V0FnVFE&usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aj_IFiP8d0E1dFVEVEVHYk9oeFJQcHhTcG10V0FnVFE&usp=sharing)
Yep, I was spoiled during my time. I was in school starting 1999-2000 and ending 2003-2004.
Here at the game.....very poor turnout. Upperdeck has maybe 50 people as well as the student section.
Quote from: a3uge on February 26, 2013, 05:53:47 PM
seems like the attendance dropped off when the uh, ten Dance tickets expired.
Attendance until the last half dozen years or so was totally estimated by a person facing the chairback seats who felt it was important to recruiting to indicate a big crowd at every game, so we should view attendance figures with suspicion. No way we were averaging more than 80 percent capacity in those years (nearly 90 percent one year). Now, if we want to argue that we should be averaging that, it's another story.
Quote from: sliman on February 26, 2013, 10:43:57 PM
Attendance until the last half dozen years or so was totally estimated by a person facing the chairback seats who felt it was important to recruiting to indicate a big crowd at every game, so we should view attendance figures with suspicion. No way we were averaging more than 80 percent capacity in those years (nearly 90 percent one year). Now, if we want to argue that we should be averaging that, it's another story.
If the purpose of your comment is to try to convince people that there hasn't been a significant fall off in attendance, you're completely distorting reality and doing a great disservice to addressing a real problem. As someone who attends every home game and has for more than 20 years, I know full well that attendance has fallen off the table from what it was at its high point in the first few years following "the shot." I only hope that ML isn't buying this line, since he wasn't here back in the day. There's a pretty easy way to get to the truth. Look at ticket revenues year by year, adjust them for price changes, and do an apples-to-apples comparison. Then set goals for improvement, hold people to account to make it happen, and make personnel changes if it doesn't.
I can vouch that the numbers during my time are pretty accurate. The mezz was full for pretty much every game I was at...
Attendance tonight was officially listed at 3,410 (officially more than EKU game, and officially higher than every OOC game minus Georgia Southern).
It was actually the 5th highest attended game this year (out of 18).
Officially.
Attendance isn't necessarily people sitting in seats, I believe it's mostly tickets sold. The ARC seemed more empty than usual, so I'm thinking there were a fair number of no-shows due to the snow. The student section was fairly weak, but given the snow and probably the lack of promotions, it doesn't surprise me. I never got why they give out T-Shirts to the Detroit/Butler games where it's going to be packed anyways, and don't do anything for weekday games which obviously will struggle with student attendance. I understand it's the week before spring break, so there's probably a lot of finals and dumb projects crammed in that the students procrastinated on. Not really an excuse, but it shouldn't be all that surprising.
It also didn't appear that the football team was there in the front row like last game. Hopefully that clown who wrote the article on them being fans didn't sour them on going to the games. Don't think they were studying either.
And don't blame the TV. Two of the top three highest attended games were on the ESPN family, and that top game was Detroit, which would have had great attendance anyway. This game wasn't on ESPNU and more tickets were sold tonight than the EKU game. The second highest attended game was Wright State with 4860, and that was just on HLN.
Quote from: talksalot on February 26, 2013, 04:42:53 PM
speaking of weather... you can check out the webcam on top of the Christopher Center... oh wait...
http://www.valpo.edu/union/webcam.php (http://www.valpo.edu/union/webcam.php)
maybe we can get someone up on the roof with a squeegie.
Who did you "talk" into going up on the Christopher Center to squeegie the webcam? The view from that camera is much clearer now, although not exactly clear. Your power of persuasion is amazing, talksalot.
05-06 and 06-07 had great crowds. It had been a few years since I had been to games (outside of the Butler/Conference tourny games) and this season was kind of a smack in the face on how small the crowd has gotten.
Amen!! to your sermon, wh !!!!
The oddity in the attendance history to me is that the big drop happened in the first year of Horizon League. Why would fewer fans come out to see the Horizon teams than to see the UMKC Kangaroos, Southern Utah and Chicago State?
It seems that the new A.D. brought a great new league to Valpo. But did he also bring really poor marketing techniques? I agree with other posters that the upper deck tells all no matter what the reported attendances say. WH is correct that the buck stops there. No more excuses. The players deserve better turnouts and the athletics department deserves more revenue.
As for the students.....can we take the students' violins away on game nights? Or recruit some students who want future school name recognition on their resumes? What works to get them to take a free ticket? Maybe golf cart their lazy a**es from the dorms...or maybe golf cart them from the VUCA?
Quote from: crusadermoe on February 27, 2013, 10:38:56 AM
As for the students.....can we take the students' violins away on game nights? Or recruit some students who want future school name recognition on their resumes? What works to get them to take a free ticket? Maybe golf cart their lazy a**es from the dorms...or maybe golf cart them from the VUCA?
Agree to the 2nd half, not so much the first. Not all 4000+ students would be interested in attending a basketball game. If some students dedicate their time to academics and their other hobbies to attending sports events, I'm fine. If a student needs the 2+ hours of time a game takes for homework, a project, test prep, a night class, that's okay. It's the students that use that as an excuse to stay in and play video games or watch the game online I have a problem with. Or they could simply do that already without needing an excuse. You'd like to think that we could get a couple hundred students to come to our games, especially when the tickets are free and the games are fun. You can play video games when we aren't at the ARC!
Uconns pep band has more students than our entire student section averages. The don't have classes or weather or electronics there obviously
I've come to accept e fact that both our student population and the population of the city itself is probably quite a bit smaller then most other colleges, and definitely smaller then our conference rivals. We all like it when the kids show up and bring the noise, hopefully with continued success on the court and in enrollment the number of students at the game will keep rising.
I don't buy the argument that kids are too busy with academics that they can't go to the games. It's 2 hours out of your night. Unless you have a major test or paper due the next day, you should be able to spare some time. Maybe Valpo is recruiting the wrong type of kids who go to the university?
MJ, that's my bottom-line fear and concern for my alma mater. The trend in the student attendance started even back to the early 2000s.
Does VU recruit and bring in "joiners" any more? When I attended, people had some loyalty to organizations. Maybe too much so sometimes in frathernities etc. But those students became leaders later in life even though they weren't A students. They tuned into what was important to their "community" and got out to see their peers a lot. In coming back to homecoming in the 90s, there just didn't seem to be any group energy anywhere. Football games, songfest, parades etc. Kids seemed to be lone wolves. Fewer kids are legacy students too (kids of alumni). There just didn't seem to be any school pride. The Valpo team was lousy in the late 80s but kids came out strong to watch them beat Notre Dame on a night that I think was on finals week or just prior.
The prosecution rests.
Quote from: crusadermoe on February 27, 2013, 07:31:02 PM
MJ, that's my bottom-line fear and concern for my alma mater. The trend in the student attendance started even back to the early 2000s.
Does VU recruit and bring in "joiners" any more? When I attended, people had some loyalty to organizations. Maybe too much so sometimes in frathernities etc. But those students became leaders later in life even though they weren't A students. They tuned into what was important to their "community" and got out to see their peers a lot. In coming back to homecoming in the 90s, there just didn't seem to be any group energy anywhere. Football games, songfest, parades etc. Kids seemed to be lone wolves. Fewer kids are legacy students too (kids of alumni). There just didn't seem to be any school pride. The Valpo team was lousy in the late 80s but kids came out strong to watch them beat Notre Dame on a night that I think was on finals week or just prior.
The prosecution rests.
Whoa whoa pump the brakes fellas! First off, If ND came back to the ARC, the students would show up...even during finals week. And if Valpo returns to form and becomes a perennial NCAA/NIT participant, the students will show up percentage wise like they do at Duke (Whose student sections are also filled from the pool of 8000+ grad students, like myself, who attend).
I would also like to contend that current students both at Valpo and around the country are in fact, "over joiners." Students are pressured into outrageous amounts of extracurricular activities starting even before high school to boost that resume for college. Once they get to college it's second nature and the resume building process restarts for grad school/job searching. For its size, Valpo offers an extremely large amount of student activities from radio to television broadcasting, Chapel and other on campus religious activities, multicultural events, singing groups, fine/performing arts, intramurals, honors societies, Greek life, Union events that run the gambit, etc. etc. Free time burns into the college student as time "wasted" or as a sign of sloth. I was seen as crazy for refusing to do homework after 11PM and as an old man for going to bed at midnight on week nights. I had roommates who literally had every minute of some days booked. This is the college norm now, not the exception. You want to know why campus is quiet on weekends? Because students are sleeping and trying to recover or their off campus helping with habitat for humanity or some Greek philanthropy. I personally am against such over commitment and the long term effect of not taking any kind of Sabbath, but I participated in it too! It's almost impossible not to.
Valpo students and Grads compared to many schools have an immense amount of school pride. I can see it in our NC alumni and even within those of us who are now at the Divinity School at Duke. In our field as in many others, people know that Valpo turns out an exceptional brand of student and person who appreciates the journey they've taken during their college experience and is well prepared for their next stage of life, my wife experienced the same thing in the Social Work field. Just because the school pride is not always manifest in sports fanaticism should not be counted against the current students.
The student attendance yesterday would have actually been pretty good for my soph-senior year (08-11) so I am encouraged that it's slowly getting better since the 9-22 debacle of a season which set us back. I remember standing and screaming with as little as 30 other students (a Sunday matinee vs Green Bay), and believe me, that's embarrassing. It's been worse, it's getting better, give the current group of sophmores and freshman time to build a reputation, an identity as a student section, and a culture of loving Valpo basketball. But for goodness' sake, don't "prosecute" the entire student body because of a disappointing Senior night on a Tuesday night and because of your 90's homecoming experience.
Oh, and the students are more isolated now because we're not legacy students? Seriously? Maybe Setshot is right to be criticizing the University's nepotism. Take it from a non-legacy Methodits student who married a legacy Lutheran student: Valpo has a special place in the hearts of both families.
The Defense Rests.
Quote from: govalpogo on February 27, 2013, 09:16:38 PMAnd if Valpo returns to form and becomes a perennial NCAA/NIT participant, the students will show up percentage wise like they do at Duke
Again, I think govalpogo hit the nail on the head with this one. Those former students on this board recalling their memories of the their Valpo teams remember their Valpo teams went to the NCAA tournament almost every year. The general public talked about Valpo in the NCAA tournament every year. Today's Valpo students don't have those recollections and memories of a dominating Valpo team. They heard about those teams when they were in elementary school but they haven't experienced it at Valpo yet. With God's help maybe this is the year these current Valpo students experience the thrill of traveling to an NCAA tournament game along with these Valpo student/athlete seniors playing in an NCAA tournament game.
Quote from: mj on February 27, 2013, 07:20:44 PMMaybe Valpo is recruiting the wrong type of kids who go to the university?
I don't think kids come to Valpo for the basketball team. If kids primary goal in college was to go to sporting events they would most likely choose a less expensive school in the big ten or similar. Speaking as a parent of two current Valpo students, I can tell you that they could have both gone to big name big team schools for much less. I don't think my oldest child there had any idea of what the sports situation was at Valpo when making the choice. I can assume this is similar experience for many kids at Valpo. The joy we have found in following this team has been purely a bonus.
Quote from: letsgovu on February 28, 2013, 07:42:39 AM
Quote from: mj on February 27, 2013, 07:20:44 PMMaybe Valpo is recruiting the wrong type of kids who go to the university?
I don't think kids come to Valpo for the basketball team. If kids primary goal in college was to go to sporting events they would most likely choose a less expensive school in the big ten or similar. Speaking as a parent of two current Valpo students, I can tell you that they could have both gone to big name big team schools for much less. I don't think my oldest child there had any idea of what the sports situation was at Valpo when making the choice. I can assume this is similar experience for many kids at Valpo. The joy we have found in following this team has been purely a bonus.
As someone who went to Valpo shortly after "the shot," the basketball team was most certainly a factor in my decision.
I was looking at other smaller schools with meteorology programs and none of them could offer me the chance to attend D1 basketball games.
Quote from: letsgovu on February 28, 2013, 07:42:39 AM
Quote from: mj on February 27, 2013, 07:20:44 PMMaybe Valpo is recruiting the wrong type of kids who go to the university?
I don't think kids come to Valpo for the basketball team. If kids primary goal in college was to go to sporting events they would most likely choose a less expensive school in the big ten or similar. Speaking as a parent of two current Valpo students, I can tell you that they could have both gone to big name big team schools for much less. I don't think my oldest child there had any idea of what the sports situation was at Valpo when making the choice. I can assume this is similar experience for many kids at Valpo. The joy we have found in following this team has been purely a bonus.
Your story is what it is, and I don't take issue with it. That said, Butler is an example of an academic institution very similar to Valpo (size, cost, enrollment, private) that
has parlayed its success on the basketball court into increased enrollment, and correspondingly more revenue. The following article from the Indianapolis Business Journal offers some supporting evidence:
http://www.ibj.com/hoops-success-helps-butler-avoid-enrollment-decline/PARAMS/article/36111 (http://www.ibj.com/hoops-success-helps-butler-avoid-enrollment-decline/PARAMS/article/36111)
I was talking to a bunch of law students circa 2001. They ALL said they had never heard of Valpo before "the shot". Thus, if not for "the shot", none of them would have been Valpo law students.
FROM THAT ARTICLE:
Butler University has seen applications spike 43 percent over the last two years even though its 2009 strategic plan warned against a coming enrollment decline.
The big difference? March Madness.
The private secular college will welcome 1,111 freshman students on Saturday, its largest class ever. Two years ago, Butler enrolled 1,067 freshmen. And before that, its freshman classes were all below 1,000 students. The school has more than 4,600 students in total.
Meanwhile, the GPAs and test scores of the incoming freshman have risen slightly over the past two years. Incoming freshman this year sport average high school grade point averages of 3.8, up from 3.7 two years ago. SAT scores have held steady at an average of about 1,740.
This reflects the benefit of such exposure - similar to the Flutie Factor at BC back in the day. Apps went through the roof there even though the cost to go to BC was approaching Harvard-like levels. The larger app pool allows for greater selectivity at the same time it enables enrollment growth. Greater selectivity allows admission to freshmen with better academic credentials. Better student credentials boosts the college's academic status. It's an impressive upward spiral. And it starts with that exposure that draws kids to a school in the first place. But a school must be proactive and ride that pony when it presents itself.
Athletics are a big marketing tool for universities all over the nation. simple as that.
Part of my decision to go to Valpo was due to the Division 1 basketball. I was excited to attend a school, in a state where basketball reigns king, where the entire town came out to support the team and the games had a great atmosphere. This was back in 2004, right at the tail end of the NCAA appearances.
Quote from: mj on February 28, 2013, 10:08:00 AMThis was back in 2004, right at the tail end of the NCAA appearances.
Was that because the Mid-con was weak? Would we have made that run of NCAA tournaments in the HL? We had some good team back then, but would we have made the NCAA's if we were in the HL?? How would those teams fair in the HL today?
I think those teams would have done well in the HL. Each squad still would have challenged for the HL title in my school years, especially the 2001-2002 squad. We had some dominating teams for a mid-major from my FR 1999-2000 to 5th year SR 2003-2004. You can't compare the HL today to our Mid-Con teams back then, only MCC/HL to Mid-Con in the same years. Butler was winning that conference, we were winning ours, and it would have been good battles each game between the two. A good example of this is that we BEAT BCS teams in my time, including a Michael Redd OSU team in the Alaskan Shootout.
In regards to college choice, I wasn't going to play baseball at a school that didn't have football or basketball as well. Therefore, in addition to academics, sports was a large factor in my decision as well.
Quote from: govalpogo on February 27, 2013, 09:16:38 PMThe Defense Rests.
.. for GoValpoGo... I hope not on this Saturday or Next Saturday or a week from Tuesday.
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 28, 2013, 09:26:19 AMAthletics are a big marketing tool for universities all over the nation. simple as that.
On the other hand I think we can all agree that Valpo, specifically, doesn't use athletics as much as other universities as a big marketing tool. Think back to the last marketing tool you saw on Valpo (video, brouchure, TV commercial, etc.). Do you remember much about the athletic dept being mentioned?
Since Valpo wants to separate itself from other universities that use athletics as a "big marketing tool" there is a feeling among the administration group that they can't over emphasize athletics. Athletics is just one part of the dynamic that is Valpo. When prospective students find that athletics is overly important to them in a college choice those are
not the prospective students that the Valpo administrative group is targeting especially hard.
Quote from: bbtds on February 28, 2013, 01:46:55 PMQuote from: oklahomamick on February 28, 2013, 09:26:19 AMAthletics are a big marketing tool for universities all over the nation. simple as that.
On the other hand I think we can all agree that Valpo, specifically, doesn't use athletics as much as other universities as a big marketing tool. Think back to the last marketing tool you saw on Valpo (video, brouchure, TV commercial, etc.). Do you remember much about the athletic dept being mentioned? Since Valpo wants to separate itself from other universities that use athletics as a "big marketing tool" there is a feeling among the administration group that they can't over emphasize athletics. Athletics is just one part of the dynamic that is Valpo. When prospective students find that athletics is overly important to them in a college choice those are not the prospective students that the Valpo administrative group is targeting especially hard.
Thats called Diii
Quote from: bbtds on February 28, 2013, 01:46:55 PM
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 28, 2013, 09:26:19 AMAthletics are a big marketing tool for universities all over the nation. simple as that.
On the other hand I think we can all agree that Valpo, specifically, doesn't use athletics as much as other universities as a big marketing tool. Think back to the last marketing tool you saw on Valpo (video, brouchure, TV commercial, etc.). Do you remember much about the athletic dept being mentioned?
Since Valpo wants to separate itself from other universities that use athletics as a "big marketing tool" there is a feeling among the administration group that they can't over emphasize athletics. Athletics is just one part of the dynamic that is Valpo. When prospective students find that athletics is overly important to them in a college choice those are not the prospective students that the Valpo administrative group is targeting especially hard.
I see Brandon Wood taking a FT about 100 times during Valpo games, and same with a softball player taking a swing :)
Quote from: wh on February 28, 2013, 08:46:30 AMYour story is what it is, and I don't take issue with it. That said, Butler is an example of an academic institution very similar to Valpo (size, cost, enrollment, private) that has parlayed its success on the basketball court into increased enrollment, and correspondingly more revenue. The following article from the Indianapolis Business Journal offers some supporting evidence:
http://www.ibj.com/hoops-success-helps-butler-avoid-enrollment-decline/PARAMS/article/36111 (http://www.ibj.com/hoops-success-helps-butler-avoid-enrollment-decline/PARAMS/article/36111)
I guess the solution is that we should just win it all this year and get some incoming students who are big fans of this team.
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 28, 2013, 02:02:53 PMQuote from: bbtds on February 28, 2013, 01:46:55 PMQuote from: oklahomamick on February 28, 2013, 09:26:19 AMAthletics are a big marketing tool for universities all over the nation. simple as that.
On the other hand I think we can all agree that Valpo, specifically, doesn't use athletics as much as other universities as a big marketing tool. Think back to the last marketing tool you saw on Valpo (video, brouchure, TV commercial, etc.). Do you remember much about the athletic dept being mentioned? Since Valpo wants to separate itself from other universities that use athletics as a "big marketing tool" there is a feeling among the administration group that they can't over emphasize athletics. Athletics is just one part of the dynamic that is Valpo. When prospective students find that athletics is overly important to them in a college choice those are not the prospective students that the Valpo administrative group is targeting especially hard.
Thats called Diii
Maybe the Valpo administrators are using DIII thinking for Div.I athletics. Haven't we heard that complaint before?
Honestly when I was looking at colleges (Sophomore at VU now, so within the last 3-4 years) the DIII schools actually did promote their athletics more than Valpo in the stuff that they mailed out. Granted at this time Valpo hadn't yet won a HL title in any sport so there was a little less to advertise than there is currently. But DI athletics for free definitely influenced my decision to come to VU, which is probably not the norm on campus as of now.
Quote from: valpo04 on February 28, 2013, 08:07:13 AM
Quote from: letsgovu on February 28, 2013, 07:42:39 AM
Quote from: mj on February 27, 2013, 07:20:44 PMMaybe Valpo is recruiting the wrong type of kids who go to the university?
I don't think kids come to Valpo for the basketball team. If kids primary goal in college was to go to sporting events they would most likely choose a less expensive school in the big ten or similar. Speaking as a parent of two current Valpo students, I can tell you that they could have both gone to big name big team schools for much less. I don't think my oldest child there had any idea of what the sports situation was at Valpo when making the choice. I can assume this is similar experience for many kids at Valpo. The joy we have found in following this team has been purely a bonus.
As someone who went to Valpo shortly after "the shot," the basketball team was most certainly a factor in my decision.
I was looking at other smaller schools with meteorology programs and none of them could offer me the chance to attend D1 basketball games.
I'll say this...look at the increase in applications to ANY university after an NCAA tournament run. They increase, and by a big number. Why? The basketball program. People want to be a part of a winning team, even if they're not directly involved.
One would think Tuesday nights game should be a sell out? Thoughts
Just checked for 2 of the "best available tickets"... Section BB, Row CC, 8&9... LOTS of seats available!!
This valpo team doesn't get love from the community
Quote from: truth219 on March 10, 2013, 09:32:22 PM
This valpo team doesn't get love from the Community
(http://www.easymemes.com/uploads/memes/78365_AZwYdgtHKPILlMH.jpg)
Yes the people on this board and fans that come to the games are fans, but I figured the espn coverage this weekend would have spiked ticket sales
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9Rnmo5JDiEw/T7FTDidALcI/AAAAAAAABII/jbwLY0Ynz8c/s1600/jesus+facepalm.jpg)
Apart from preorders, which weren't all that well publicized, tickets have been on sale for less than 24 hours.
What talksalot saw looks probably to have been a fluke. CC is 60+% sold. BB and DD are each about half sold. AA and EE are both for sale, and selling a few. Downstairs is sold out to pairs.
200 free student tickets made available were gone in under 24 hours. hopefully we'll have a raucous crowd.
Relying on the ticketing web site for mezzanine availability, the mezzanine is a little more than 1/2 sold. Relying on some assumptions for the rest of the house, overall, about 80% of the tickets are sold.
Quote from: agibson on March 11, 2013, 12:59:23 PMRelying on the ticketing web site for mezzanine availability, the mezzanine is a little more than 1/2 sold. Relying on some assumptions for the rest of the house, overall, about 80% of the tickets are sold.
Entire lower section is sold, except for a single seat in E.
Upper section
AA 25%... 102 of capacity 408
BB 75%.... 342 of capacity 456
CC 79%.... 341 of capacity 432
DD 58%.... 250 of capacity 432
EE 17%.... 65 of capacity 384
-----
All 52% 1100 of capacity 2112
http://www.etix.com/ticket/online/performanceSearch.jsp?performance_id=1705724&cobrand=valpo (http://www.etix.com/ticket/online/performanceSearch.jsp?performance_id=1705724&cobrand=valpo)
Click on the section.
Well, I wasn't going to go into the details ;)
But, my numbers were 1097 sold in the mezzanine (estimated), of 2136 total (calculated, from the ticketing site you mention). DD looks to me like a mirror image of BB, with 456 seats.
I'm not sure about a few other factors. Blocks of tickets reserved for WSU, blocks reserved for students, etc. And I'm not actually sure what capacity is for the tournament configuration. So my "80% sold overall" number is definitely an estimate.
Quote from: agibson on March 11, 2013, 01:45:02 PM
Well, I wasn't going to go into the details ;)
But, my numbers were 1097 sold in the mezzanine (estimated), of 2136 total (calculated, from the ticketing site you mention). DD looks to me like a mirror image of BB, with 456 seats.
I'm not sure about a few other factors. Blocks of tickets reserved for WSU, blocks reserved for students, etc. And I'm not actually sure what capacity is for the tournament configuration. So my "80% sold overall" number is definitely an estimate.
I estimated the tickets sold as well.. we're pretty close in that number.
I actually counted the number of seats in each row per section
AA 17*24
BB 19*24
CC 18*24
DD 18*24
EE 16*24
Sounds like we had about the same methodology. But, DD, like BB, is 19 seats across, right? Seats 2 to 20?
Quote from: agibson on March 11, 2013, 02:27:49 PM
Sounds like we had about the same methodology. But, DD, like BB, is 19 seats across, right? Seats 2 to 20?
In my defense, it's much harder to count on Mondays.
it's conversations like this that make me sure that you two and I would have a good time at pas(s)( )times.
unless you're not hall of froth members yet.
One of my weaknesses, perhaps.
(I trust you heard that Pastimes is no more?
http://www.yelp.com/biz/stacks-bar-and-grill-valparaiso (http://www.yelp.com/biz/stacks-bar-and-grill-valparaiso)
I'm told they have something similar to the old hall of froth. A library card or similar. I've not been in yet.)
(http://www.easymemes.com/uploads/memes/78600_F1G0lgTd4qgC57C.jpg)
I heard from alums, on Facebook, who were Hall of Froth members that Pass Times is now called "Stacks", with more of a library theme, so I'm guessing really quiet, people studying/reading, with legal pads or laptops all over getting work done with their "library cards" of beer drinking being tagged?
dumb...then just call it "the library", as in, "sorry, mom and dad, call you later, gotta go back to The Library"
Quote from: valporun on March 12, 2013, 10:22:35 AMI heard from alums, on Facebook, who were Hall of Froth members that Pass Times is now called "Stacks", with more of a library theme, so I'm guessing really quiet, people studying/reading, with legal pads or laptops all over getting work done with their "library cards" of beer drinking being tagged?
I've been there a few times and really like it. It's kind of quiet but there's not people reading or studying. The walls are covered in books and there's those little library ladders. The "Library Card" is a list of 50 beers that you can drink to join the Hall of Froth. I think it's still called the hall of froth and they have the Passtimes list up, but I haven't checked since I wasn't a Hall member.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on March 12, 2013, 10:39:08 AM
dumb...then just call it "the library", as in, "sorry, mom and dad, call you later, gotta go back to The Library"
I think it's a clever name.
Sounds like they are copying another's idea :). There have been several The Library bars around the nation over the last decade: Dallas, Chicago, etc. It is a different name, but if they have books to stare at all over, it has been done on a larger scale ;)
"Stacks" Library bar sounds like something straight out of the show Bar Rescue.
Quote from: valpotx on March 12, 2013, 11:38:56 AMit has been done on a larger scale
(http://image.spreadshirt.com/image-server/v1/compositions/16687893/views/1,width=280,height=280,appearanceId=376.png/women-s-everything-is-bigger-in-texas-t-shirt-red_design.png)
Looks like about 601 seats remaining in the mezzanine, almost all in EE and AA. For a 72% sold out mezzanine, and a house that's about 88% sold.
Hopefully a walk-up crowd takes the rest. Shouldn't be too hard.
This is just something I've thought about and I know its impossible, but if a new arc was built off campus would that increase attendance. For instance, by where the newer holiday inn express is by 49. Sometimes I wonder if turn out is poor because people simply don't know where the arc is. That may sound dumb but I'm sure its possible.
Quote from: truth219 on March 12, 2013, 12:57:46 PMThis is just something I've thought about and I know its impossible, but if a new arc was built off campus would that increase attendance. For instance, by where the newer holiday inn express is by 49. Sometimes I wonder if turn out is poor because people simply don't know where the arc is. That may sound dumb but I'm sure its possible.
Then the students wouldn't show... nope can't use that argument I guess.
I'm sure vline or even the university would provide a shuttle bus.
Quote from: truth219 on March 12, 2013, 01:12:17 PMI'm sure vline or even the university would provide a shuttle bus.
Maybe I'm wrong, but aren't you the guy that doesn't want to hear excuses from students as to why they can't come?
And you want to give them a really good one?
I didn't have the students in mind when I made this comment, I was thinking about the public. Sorry should have stated that, but if the students didn't come I could understand
milwaukee had a similar deal when they played at us cellular off campus in downtown milwaukee. and it didn't do crap for them most of the time.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on March 12, 2013, 12:27:06 PM
Quote from: valpotx on March 12, 2013, 11:38:56 AMit has been done on a larger scale
(http://image.spreadshirt.com/image-server/v1/compositions/16687893/views/1,width=280,height=280,appearanceId=376.png/women-s-everything-is-bigger-in-texas-t-shirt-red_design.png)
I was actually speaking to the chain of bars known as The Library being fairly widespread, not making another Texas comment ;D
Quote from: vuweathernerd on March 12, 2013, 01:41:04 PM
milwaukee had a similar deal when they played at us cellular off campus in downtown milwaukee. and it didn't do crap for them most of the time.
They have the same student turnout now that they moved back on campus - roughly 5 students per game. Except now no community goes to the games. The parking is terrible down there and looking for the place is like doing a Highlights Magazine picture puzzle.
I guess bringing up Milwaukee keeps attendance in perspective. In a city of 31,730 people and a school of 2,875 undergrads, we're able to consistently outdraw a school of 25,271 undergrads in a city of 594,833 people. As for the student section - we're the only team in the conference that has a student section of over 20 people on a consistent basis. 17k students go to Wight State and Cleveland State, but there's more students pictured in the creepy mural behind the basket than the other side of the court. The only time an HL school student seemingly starts to care about their team is if their team is in the conference tournament. It's only after then that they're able to bring 1% of their student population to the game.
But hey, I guess that's more #CommuterSchoolProblems than anything.
Quote from: a3uge on March 12, 2013, 03:08:47 PM17k students go to Wight State
come on, man, that's not very creative. dayton chants that at us all the time. i thought vaalpo students were more creative than that.
by now, though, that's water off a yak's back.
;)
(great post, btw)
Hope a lot of walk ups come out tonight section ee has a lot of seats available
Actually 2/3rds of Wright State freshman live on campus and half of the student body lives on or near campus.
Quote from: a3uge on March 12, 2013, 03:08:47 PMthere's more students pictured in the creepy mural behind the basket than the other side of the court.
this...if ValpoHoops would permit it...i would induct into the new VUFZ Clause Hall of Fame, right after we add the Sentence addition.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on March 12, 2013, 04:18:06 PM
Quote from: a3uge on March 12, 2013, 03:08:47 PMthere's more students pictured in the creepy mural behind the basket than the other side of the court.
this...if ValpoHoops would permit it...i would induct into the new VUFZ Clause Hall of Fame, right after we add the Sentence addition.
Hey! Don't bring me into this or you're banned for 37 hours! :rotfl: :lol:
Quote from: ValpoHoops on March 12, 2013, 04:20:43 PMHey! Don't bring me into this or you're banned for 37 hours!
:) please do note that I said AFTER we build the SENTENCE HoF for your induction :)
This is so simple boys and girls...start making the NCAA's every year and have an NBA player on your roster and attendance will improve. ;D
The championship game has been called a "sellout." Can anyone confirm? It looked pretty full from TV.
The game stats on our website have 4,457...it sure looked like a sellout from the camera angles though
Here's what it looked like to me. About 20 spots open in AA, 50 in EE, and 50 in the WSU student section. There were about 40 people standing on the track and pretty much every other seat was taken.
Based on the number of empty rows toward the top of AA and EE and scattered empty seats elsewhere, including in the Wright State student area, plus seating taken for media and bands, I think the announced attendance is pretty accurate. Since everyone paid, the count should be much more accurate than our regular home games where student/faculty passes make it necessary to estimate attendance.
Dragging up a very old thread...
I attended the football game yesterday, the first game that I have attended in years. I was impressed by the number of students who were in the stands to watch a team that had mustered only one victory this season. I hope that this is a harbinger for students' willingness to show up for basketball.
BTW, it was a fun game to watch.