Michigan just made a run to the national championship game with several kids from the region. They weren't the only team with region impact. So, Valpo is getting the Times Player of the Year in Nick Davidson...
Makes you want to say hmmmm...
I think we're gonna start seeing local kids coming to Valpo. Seems like Bryce likes the local flavor: Davidson, Yeo, Carter, Williams, Adekoya are all from within 50 or so miles of Valpo. The furthest kid is Peters from the Peoria area. Love what Bryce and the boys are doing going local! Such a talent rich area in our backyard! Represent #219!!!!
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Spike Albrecht told me two weeks ago that he never really had any contact with Valparaiso during the recruiting process.
It's one thing to go down swinging, but it's another to never take the bat off your shoulder.
Update: Just got done reading this PT article.
http://posttrib.suntimes.com/sports/19362462-556/morrissey-michigans-spike-albrecht-reason-we-love-ncaa-tournament.html (http://posttrib.suntimes.com/sports/19362462-556/morrissey-michigans-spike-albrecht-reason-we-love-ncaa-tournament.html)
Apparently, Albrecht only had one other D-1 offer (mid major) when Michigan offered. So, everyone missed. Have to give Beilein credit for finding a diamond in the rough.
VU absolutely refuses to recruit the DAC. Here is another outstanding player that wasnt even looked at by the Crusaders. His older brother just finished up at Brown and was quite a player.
Let's look back at recent "misses"...Jared Jones from Michigan City - 6'8" four year starter at Ball State, the complete mishandling of Novak (four year contributor/starter at Michigan who averaged 29 ppg as a senior at Chesterton and had his offer pulled from VU), no interest in Hayden Humes from VHS, no interest in Brad Karp (2000 career points at NAIA level in 3 years) and others.
Are they even looking at the Simmons kid from Michigan City (6'6" junior all DAC with 40" vertical who was referred to as a "high major sleeper" this past weekend at Milwaukee)?
These kids are all outstanding players who play in the toughest conference north of Indianapolis...a complete meat grinder physical in your face double round robin brawl.
What is missed with these young men, in addition to their talents is the ability to bring people into the ARC. Twenty years ago VU heavily recruited the DAC and at one time their entire starting lineup consisted of players from within 25 miles. Today...name the most recent player from the conference...
How is it Michigan can find the talent in NW Indiana? They are already recruiting a 6'5" freshman from VHS...
lowposter
Quote from: lowposter on April 09, 2013, 07:29:21 AM
How is it Michigan can find the talent in NW Indiana? They are already recruiting a 6'5" freshman from VHS...
lowposter
Conner Tenhove?
Played exclusively on JV as a freshman (which Hummel and Martin didn't even do), saw mop-up varsity minutes. I think he'll have a huge impact on the VHS varsity as a sophomore. Will be fun to watch his development.
To say Valpo refuses to recruit the DAC is a gross overstatement. They recruited Tonagel and staff spent many hours watching and recruiting Hummel and Martin, to name a few. My feeling is that they want to be careful and recruit only local basketball players that they feel are assured of success. You can create a major PR problem if you recruit a local athlete who sits because he didn't turn out to be as good as expected. And, yes, that means you overlook some in the "inexact science" of recruiting.
And really, back in the late 80s and early 90s when Homer basically had a "DAC All-Star team" of guys like Gipson, Beesley, Cavanaugh and others - look at the W-L of those teams. They didn't have quality big men back then, which was a problem. Things didn't turn around until Schmidt and Redmon transferred "back home." Can't say I blame the VU staff for "missing" on Albrecht. McGary and Robinson were almost always high-major recruits, as were Hummel and Martin. I do think they missed out on not only Brad Karp but also Brent Kimmel from VHS. Brent was the Times Player of the Year in 2004 after leading Valpo to its only Class 4A semistate, and had a solid career at an NAIA school in Oklahoma. I'm pretty sure they tried to get a kid or two from Merrillville (Edward Seay and Jeremiah Jones) but I don't think the VU-MV relationship is very good and those didn't pan out.
Over the last 10 seasons I took note on players who I consider local, from the Chicagoland area. Here the are
Dority: Chicago
Rossi: Winnetka
Harris: Aurora
Little: Chicago
Loyd: Lincolnwood
Howard: Chicago
Humphrey: Chicago
Miles: Country Club Hills
Harris: Griffith
Tonagel: LaPorte
Hawkins: Gary
Only 11 players over the past 10 years from one of the most basketball rich parts of the country. That's only one commit a season, which is pretty sad.
This year we have 4 commits coming directly from the Chicago area:
Adekoya: Tinley Park
Carter: Maywood
Davidson: Merrillville
Williams: Chicago
And Yeo is from the Plymouth area which is pretty local with Peters being the furthest away from Peoria. Love to see the cheap trips into the Chicago area for recruiting. Some of the best basketball players have come out of Chicago and if a majority of our recruits start to come from the Chicago area/NWI I think we'll see a much more consistent winning team here in Valpo.
Correct me, if I'm wrong, and valpotx might be able to support me on this one, but I thought Jason Hawkins was a walk-on? He didn't see a lot of playing time, using his time on the bench to become a coach-in-training.
JHawk was definitely a walk on, and you missed Ali Berdiel. Yes, he is originally from Puerto Rico, but he played at least his last season at Andrean.
Quote from: valpotx on April 09, 2013, 11:30:51 AM
JHawk was definitely a walk on, and you missed Ali Berdiel. Yes, he is originally from Puerto Rico, but he played at least his last season at Andrean.
Even with Berdiel that's just 12 guys from the Chicago area. Still not much of a difference between 11 and 12 players over the past 10 years from one of the most talent rich areas in the country, if not the world. Up until recently Valpo has just been mediocre and I think this plays a big reason, only 10-12 players from the Chicago area, however way you put it. I think we got lucky with Broekhoff and Van Wijk helping us get back to the tourney and being a great stepping stone for future Valpo teams to come. Nothing against international players, but it's really expensive to go to Australia, Africa, Europe to go recruiting and not to mention pretty difficult. I'm sure the Valpo coaches were able to go to multiple games as the season went on to see how good their recruits are. While 1-2 weeks overseas is just not enough time to fully judge talent.
I'm sure the coaching staff over the years has enjoyed their "recruiting trips" to Australia, Africa, Europe and the Caribbean where I'm sure they coached teams and held clinics which they called "working trips." Isn't it a lot more enjoyable to go overseas when you get the opportunity than drive around Chicagoland and NW Indiana all summer. There are no clinics or teams to coach locally except grade school kids. You can do those clinics in the ARC. I'm sure Chris Sparks loved New Zealand. Especially when it netted Cameron Witt, who was a project like many of the others.
So, it appears that Greg Tonnagel is the last DAC player at VU. If you are going to include Ali Berdiel of Andrean (that is REALLY a stretch BTW) then you must include the Hawkins from LaLamiere from about 5 years ago.
I understand VU recruited Martin and Hummel about 6 years ago, but since then they have pretty much avoided the area. Coach Powell will be able to open doors (and sign recruits) in Illinois, but do not expect him to remain here very much longer unless there is a compelling reason to stay.
Kimmel and Albretch were/are both Greg Tonnagel type players...coaches on the floor that while they look as if they should be singing in the church choirs, in reality are stone cold assassins on the floor.
I agree recruiting is quite an art. The Simmons kid from City is an amazing athlete and would fit in academically here. If you get a chance review his game, if you think Yeo is athletic, Simmons raw abilities will be eye opening.
lowposter
I teach in MC...most of our athletes are very athletic, many just aren't coachable. I haven't heard much about Simmons' game other then the athleticism aspect.
VU was looking at Holba from Chesterton, but he has moved down to the Indy area I believe.
Boyd is making progress. I respect him, but have some issues with the physical nature of the game he encourages. At times, his teams resemble a Big East team with hard fouls and chippiness. Not just my opinion but others also.
Quote from: lowposter on April 09, 2013, 05:15:54 PM
Boyd is making progress. I respect him, but have some issues with the physical nature of the game he encourages. At times, his teams resemble a Big East team with hard fouls and chippiness. Not just my opinion but others also.
You have to wonder if Dr. Naismith would have asked about last night's National championship game, "Are they playing football? It's being played in a football stadium, isn't it? I haven't seen a better tackle of a player with a ball. No foul?"
A friend of mine without pro-Michigan bias characterized Louisville's 2nd half strategy as "hack away! they can't call EVERYTHING!"
Quote from: bbtds on April 09, 2013, 06:27:56 PM
Quote from: lowposter on April 09, 2013, 05:15:54 PM
Boyd is making progress. I respect him, but have some issues with the physical nature of the game he encourages. At times, his teams resemble a Big East team with hard fouls and chippiness. Not just my opinion but others also.
You have to wonder if Dr. Naismith would have asked about last night's National championship game, "Are they playing football? It's being played in a football stadium, isn't it? I haven't seen a better tackle of a player with a ball. No foul?"
I agree that the amount of permissible body contact in today's collegiate game is ridiculous. If big time collegiate scorers of yesteryear like Pete Maravich and Rick Mount played today, they would never average anywhere close to what they did back in the day, despite having a 3-pt line. They never had to worry about chest bumping, hand checking, jersey holding, extended knees, tripping, face (body) guarding, moving screens, being ridden out of bounds along the baseline, hard fouls, or even charging calls. Heck, no one even worked out with weights in those days for fear of losing their shooting touch. Players were lighter, weaker and lacked the same degree of stamina. College basketball has become another gladiator sport.
In the immortal words of Russell Crowe in Gladiator: "On my signal, unleash hell."
I'll leave it to Apostle to post the appropriate video ;D
BTW, for a couple of years the NE Patriots used that video snip as a part of the pre-game intros at Gillette Stadium. It rocked the place like you can't imagine and gave me goose bumps.
Quote from: bbtds on April 09, 2013, 02:49:43 PM
I'm sure the coaching staff over the years has enjoyed their "recruiting trips" to Australia, Africa, Europe and the Caribbean where I'm sure they coached teams and held clinics which they called "working trips." Isn't it a lot more enjoyable to go overseas when you get the opportunity than drive around Chicagoland and NW Indiana all summer. There are no clinics or teams to coach locally except grade school kids. You can do those clinics in the ARC. I'm sure Chris Sparks loved New Zealand. Especially when it netted Cameron Witt, who was a project like many of the others.
Just because they were fun trips, doesn't mean it was the best for the basketball program. We got damn lucky in finding two gems in Rowdy and KVW. Since the 02-03/03-04 seasons was when we had players who really made a difference on the team, who were truly international and never played in the US. Most of our international flavor actually was found in the US, whether they played prep school, transferred, or JUCO they were already here in the states. Most of these expensive trips we come back with one or two players. As you pointed out going to New Zealand and getter Cameron Witt, who didn't do much in a Valpo uniform. The only 2 who have been highly productive are Broekhoff and Van Wijk, but both are anomalies compared to many of the other players who were home grown international. Some have been good not great, some did next to nothing, I don't believe it was the best way to invest their recruiting in going overseas and it showed between 04-13 without a ncaa tourney appearance. Now, we are investing our money in the local area and we can see many more players, than going to New Zealand, Australia, Europe, etc... Let's not forget the style of international basketball is much difference then the style here. Yes, for some it can translate over but for many it does not.
Yes, driving around the Great Lakes/Midwest all summer is not as fun as driving around Australia or Europe but driving around Gary Indiana might be much more beneficial to the program, because it costs much less to go into Gary and come back with nobody than it does to go to New Zealand or Europe and come back with somebody who isn't very good or coming back with nothing at all. I think a reason we have one of the best incoming recruiting class in history because we made the short, cheap, easy, trips into Chicago and elsewhere in the Midwest and saw many more kids than we would have investing our money in going to a foreign country for just a few weeks and try to judge the talent there and almost need to bring somebody back with you for all that money.
Quote from: classof2014 on April 09, 2013, 09:31:12 PManomalies
hey, you were right, the kids do love them some anomaly. mea culpa.
2014, I am not sure whether bbtds was (ever) serious, as clearly overseas work trips can be difficult, whereas driving around the Region is pretty simple.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on April 09, 2013, 10:43:24 PM
Quote from: classof2014 on April 09, 2013, 09:31:12 PManomalies
hey, you were right, the kids do love them some anomaly. mea culpa.
2014, I am not sure whether bbtds was (ever) serious, as clearly overseas work trips can be difficult, whereas driving around the Region is pretty simple.
Am I not always serious?
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(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS5PTo4YnzNn8dYzT9knoNwmFN28rs8FywY-3s7xRFP-dc1Yh3fHg)
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTptonaIHfJkIf-cQS7aXxBOgp875PyWVXpo0X9T4GhzxkZekMc)
(http://www.blindfiveyearold.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Spock-Smiling.png)
Does anyone know much about McGary and Albrecht? It appears that they graduated out east, Brewster Academy and Northfield Mt. Hermon, respectively. Did they just attend their last year of HS? Did they graduate HS in NW Indiana, then attend a year of prep school? Maybe that is why VU may have missed out with them, especially Albrecht. McGary was still a major recruit. I'm sure a few coaches at Indiana colleges are wondering if they should have recruited them a little more...
No, VU has no excuse, other than they probably never really had a chance with Mitch because he was destined for bigger/better things.
McGary left Chesterton after his junior year, and spent two years at Brewster. At one time he was the #2 overall recruit in the 2012 class.
But Albrecht played all four years at CP, was an absolute stud, and they never gave him a call. Of course, nobody other than Appalachian State did, either, and he was going to go to Brown and play with his brother, but missed their ACT athlete cut-off by one. Hence a "post-grad" year at NFMH.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on April 10, 2013, 12:59:18 PM
No, VU has no excuse, other than they probably never really had a chance with Mitch because he was destined for bigger/better things.
McGary left Chesterton after his junior year, and spent two years at Brewster. At one time he was the #2 overall recruit in the 2012 class.
But Albrecht played all four years at CP, was an absolute stud, and they never gave him a call. Of course, nobody other than Appalachian State did, either, and he was going to go to Brown and play with his brother, but missed their ACT athlete cut-off by one. Hence a "post-grad" year at NFMH.
OK, thanks. Agree, McGary was going to a big-time program. I'm still surprised that Michigan had three Freshmen from the region. Good for Beilein.
Quote from: classof2014 on April 09, 2013, 09:31:12 PMThe only 2 who have been highly productive are Broekhoff and Van Wijk
Valpo's only two highly productive internationals ever both happen to be on the team right now?
Really?
Mitch played three years at Chesterton but then two in Prep School. His grades were awful, and I mean the worst you can possibly get from what I heard, at Chesterton.
I looked up his statistics on etpearl.com, which is a great web site for local high school basketball history. He scored 11 points as a 6-7 freshman for a 19-3 team in 2007-08 that lost by two points to Crown Point in the second round of the sectional. He scored 267 points for a 11-10 team in 08-09 as a soph, and 186 points as a junior in 9-10 for a team that underachieved at 7-14. I think Mitch missed a lot of that season with foot injuries.
He definitely made the right decision playing in Prep school. So he was a freshman in college this year, but old enough to be a sophomore. Same with Spike, I believe.
It's crazy that VU hasn't had a DAC player since Greg Tonagel, who graduated from LaPorte in 1997 the last year of the single-class state tournament.
Quote from: agibson on April 10, 2013, 03:57:41 PM
Quote from: classof2014 on April 09, 2013, 09:31:12 PMThe only 2 who have been highly productive are Broekhoff and Van Wijk
Valpo's only two highly productive internationals ever both happen to be on the team right now?
Really?
Never said ever. Just over the past 10 or so seasons Broekhoff and Van Wijk have by far been the two best true international players to have never played some sort of organized basketball in the states prior to Valpo. Most of the international players haven't done much or maybe had a good season but none were among the leagues best players at what they did, like Broekhoff and Van Wijk.
Quote from: classof2014 on April 10, 2013, 04:10:28 PM
Quote from: agibson on April 10, 2013, 03:57:41 PM
Quote from: classof2014 on April 09, 2013, 09:31:12 PMThe only 2 who have been highly productive are Broekhoff and Van Wijk
Valpo's only two highly productive internationals ever both happen to be on the team right now?
Really?
Never said ever. Just over the past 10 or so seasons Broekhoff and Van Wijk have by far been the two best true international players to have never played some sort of organized basketball in the states prior to Valpo. Most of the international players haven't done much or maybe had a good season but none were among the leagues best players at what they did, like Broekhoff and Van Wijk.
Uh, you are way off on this comment. Though Rowdy was very good, we have had several international players that had similar effects the last 10 years, and Rowdy/KVW were not 'by far' better than them. Just because they played in the HL versus the Mid-Con, does not automatically mean they were better. Having been able to watch all of our players live from 1999-2000 to 2003-2004, and on video since that time, I can say that the below people were very good players for us. Please do not discount our international player heritage, as they have been excellent contributors for us:
Lubos Barton (last season 2001-2002) - absolute stud, just outside of the 10 year period you mentioned
Raitis Grafs (last season 2002-2003)
Joaquim 'Kikas' Gomes (last season 2003-2004)
Ali Berdiel (last season 2005-2006, I believe) - I hate saying this one, but he was good overall
Shawn Huff (last season 2007-2008)
There are other solid players in this time period as well (Michael Rogers, Stalin Ortiz, Roberto Nieves, Mohammed Kone, Samuel Haanpaa, etc), but they don't meet your several consistent years requirement.
I understand that your sample pool is a lot smaller than the rest of us if you graduate next year, but respect the program history son ;)
Ah, 2014, sorry, I did miss part of your original comment
Quote
Since the 02-03/03-04 seasons was when we had players who really made a difference on the team, who were truly international and never played in the US.
Maybe Shawn Huff is the chief counter-example, depending on how we want to slice and dice your boundary date. Unless you're saying his American farther made him less than "truly international".
Quote from: valpotx on April 10, 2013, 04:51:30 PM
Quote from: classof2014 on April 10, 2013, 04:10:28 PM
Quote from: agibson on April 10, 2013, 03:57:41 PM
Quote from: classof2014 on April 09, 2013, 09:31:12 PMThe only 2 who have been highly productive are Broekhoff and Van Wijk
Valpo's only two highly productive internationals ever both happen to be on the team right now?
Really?
Never said ever. Just over the past 10 or so seasons Broekhoff and Van Wijk have by far been the two best true international players to have never played some sort of organized basketball in the states prior to Valpo. Most of the international players haven't done much or maybe had a good season but none were among the leagues best players at what they did, like Broekhoff and Van Wijk.
Uh, you are way off on this comment. Though Rowdy was very good, we have had several international players that had similar effects the last 10 years, and Rowdy/KVW were not 'by far' better than them. Just because they played in the HL versus the Mid-Con, does not automatically mean they were better. Having been able to watch all of our players live from 1999-2000 to 2003-2004, and on video since that time, I can say that the below people were very good players for us. Please do not discount our international player heritage, as they have been excellent contributors for us:
Lubos Barton (last season 2001-2002) - absolute stud, just outside of the 10 year period you mentioned
Raitis Grafs (last season 2002-2003)
Joaquim 'Kikas' Gomes (last season 2003-2004)
Ali Berdiel (last season 2004-2005, I believe) - I hate saying this one, but he was good overall
Shawn Huff (last season 2008-2009?)
There are other solid players in this time period as well (Michael Rogers, Stalin Ortiz, Roberto Nieves, Mohammed Kone, Samuel Haanpaa, etc), but they don't meet your several consistent years requirement.
I understand that your sample pool is a lot smaller than the rest of us if you graduate next year, but respect the program history son ;)
I do have a lot of respect for the international history but I think it's time to start moving away from international and become a local powerhouse. We have never been a big destination for NWI kids and Chicago kids and I think to succeed in the future we need to go after these kids. Over the past 10 or so years it has been harder and harder to come by great international players who flew under the radar because they weren't playing here in America. I think you can see that over the past 10 seasons, prior to the 03-04 season we had multiple great international players on our team. After that we didn't make an ncaa tourney for another 10 years because it is harder to come by the Lubos Barton's, Ratis Grafs's, Joaquim Gomes's type players. The international players have played a vital role over recent Valpo basketball history, I although think it's time to move on and look local, like we did with this incoming class.
I will give you your point that it is much harder to recruit solid international players nowadays, as each program has overseas scouts, whereas we used to be one of the only programs doing it years ago. Programs of our size are typically only in play for players that have a solid athletic skill set, but need some seasoning. Rowdy was one of these players, and he blossomed very nicely into a stud player. I remember reading that only Pacific University gave him some looks, but no other serious suitors. Kind of funny that both Valpo and Pacific made the NCAA tourney this year, when neither had been in it for awhile (last one was 2005-2006 for Pacific).
It will always be hard for a school like Valpo to do really well in NW IN and Chicago due to the amount of D-1 basketball programs in IL/IN that recruit the area, as well as the other national programs (Michigan, Duke, etc). It is kind of like cities in TX regarding football and baseball. Just about every D-1 program has their hands in the pot of recruiting Texans for these sports, and just about every program in basketball tries to recruit IL/IN.
Quote from: valpotx on April 10, 2013, 05:29:03 PMIt will always be hard for a school like Valpo to do really well in NW IN and Chicago due to the amount of D-1 basketball programs in IL/IN that recruit the area, as well as the other national programs (Michigan, Duke, etc). It is kind of like cities in TX regarding football and baseball. Just about every D-1 program has their hands in the pot of recruiting Texans for these sports, and just about every program in basketball tries to recruit IL/IN.
The one advantage Valpo has right now is being the best Chicagoland basketball school. Out of: Northern Illinois, Northwestern, Loyola, UIC, and DePaul; Valpo has by far been the best Chicagoland school over the past few seasons which does help. Especially since not everybody wants to travel too far from home. I think it played a big roll in getting some of the most recent transfers in: Dority, Rossi, and possibly even Carter somewhat. I know he left for some other reasons but maybe a reason he chose Valpo was because he was from Maywood and didn't want to be too far away.
I know for this recruiting class it played somewhat of a roll for some of the players. Especially Davidson who really seemed like he wanted to stay close so his family can watch him play. Obviously this isn't the case for everybody and it is hard no matter what for a mid-major program to pick up guys the B1G type conferences are recruiting. But to the kid who is high-quality mid-major type player, will possibly look to Valpo first because it isn't too far away.