The NCAA has released attendance figures for this past season. Unfortunately, the list of schools is not broken down by conference, and I'm not motivated enough right now to find everybody, rank them, etc. Going by memory, our average home game attendance of 3173 sounds similar to 2011-12. If anyone is picking up that I am hoping someone will do a little number crunching, you would be correct. ;)
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2013.pdf (http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2013.pdf)
Here's a table of contents for other years, if anyone is interested in taking a year-by-year look:
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/NCAA/Resources/Stats/M+Basketball/Attendance/index.html (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/NCAA/Resources/Stats/M+Basketball/Attendance/index.html)
alphabetically total home games/total attendance/avg per game attendance
Cleveland St. 14 30,332 2,167
Detroit 15 33,510 2,234
Green Bay 15 46,260 3,084
Ill.-Chicago 16 46,195 2,887
Milwaukee 14 31,730 2,266
Oakland 12 29,732 2,478
Valparaiso 18 57,122 3,173
Wright St. 17 64,362 3,786
Youngstown St. 17 41,663 2,451
Loyola Chicago 14 31,888 2,278
rank
1.Wright St. 17 64,362 3,786
2.Valparaiso 18 57,122 3,173
3.Green Bay 15 46,260 3,084
4.Ill.-Chicago 16 46,195 2,887
5.Oakland 12 29,732 2,478
Loyola Chicago 14 31,888 2,278
6.Milwaukee 14 31,730 2,266
7.Youngstown St. 17 41,663 2,451
8.Detroit 15 33,510 2,234
9.Cleveland St. 14 30,332 2,167
ranking all the Div. I attendance is a mighty large task and I decided I was too lazy also.
Quote from: historyman on August 18, 2013, 07:44:54 PM
alphabetically total home games/total attendance/avg per game attendance
Cleveland St. 14 30,332 2,167
Detroit 15 33,510 2,234
Green Bay 15 46,260 3,084
Ill.-Chicago 16 46,195 2,887
Milwaukee 14 31,730 2,266
Oakland 12 29,732 2,478
Valparaiso 18 57,122 3,173
Wright St. 17 64,362 3,786
Youngstown St. 17 41,663 2,451
Loyola Chicago 14 31,888 2,278
rank
1.Wright St. 17 64,362 3,786
2.Valparaiso 18 57,122 3,173
3.Green Bay 15 46,260 3,084
4.Ill.-Chicago 16 46,195 2,887
5.Oakland 12 29,732 2,478
Loyola Chicago 14 31,888 2,278
6.Milwaukee 14 31,730 2,266
7.Youngstown St. 17 41,663 2,451
8.Detroit 15 33,510 2,234
9.Cleveland St. 14 30,332 2,167
ranking all the Div. I attendance is a mighty large task and I decided I was too lazy also.
Putting our differences aside, I have to say that Detroit deserved a much better following than that. The Titans came into the season as defending HL Tournament champs, won a bunch of games (some in high scoring fashion), had a future NBA player and the most exciting dunker in college basketball, a decent arena, etc., etc. What more can you ask for if you're a basketball fan living in that area?
having as your coach:
(http://www.udmercy.edu/giving/newsletter/2011-10/images/vitaleRoss.jpg)
Maybe Calihan Hall is a detriment to the program because of how far away the fans sit from the court? It seems, unless you're a high dollar guy in Detroit, you're sitting in the nosebleeds to watch a game there. What fan in Detroit wants to be sitting so far away during a game where their energy can't have a real effect on the home team's play in the last moments of a good game?
Here's a running summary I've been working on:
(http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/2320/9qq9.png)
(http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/4479/s69w.png)
Note: can't figure out how my averaged 2011 numbers don't match NCAA's. I tried every combination of non D1/conf tourney games.
Quote from: a3uge on August 19, 2013, 05:22:33 PM
Here's a running summary I've been working on:
(http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/2320/9qq9.png)
(http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/4479/s69w.png)
Note: can't figure out how my averaged 2011 numbers don't match NCAA's. I tried every combination of non D1/conf tourney games.
Interesting and informative. Thanks!
Amazing to see the fall since I was in school. My Jr year of 2002-2003 we averaged 4,530 according to this, which was a team similar to last year's. One that had the ability to beat someone in the NCAA tourney, but fell short. Yet, we averaged 3,173 fans? Wow...
Sad too that in the last 10 years only 2009-10 was worse in attendance. This past year, despite how good we were, we were 9th best of the last 10 and just bearly made it over 3K on average. And if you look at all 21 seasons, last season was the 18th worst. Hard to believe.
Quote from: valporun on August 19, 2013, 12:13:09 PM
Maybe Calihan Hall is a detriment to the program because of how far away the fans sit from the court? It seems, unless you're a high dollar guy in Detroit, you're sitting in the nosebleeds to watch a game there. What fan in Detroit wants to be sitting so far away during a game where their energy can't have a real effect on the home team's play in the last moments of a good game?
Have you been to Calihan Hall?
Look at where the seats are behind Dick Vitale in the picture. There are also some floor seats. What makes you think fans have to sit so far away from the action in Calihan?
Quote from: VULB#62 on August 20, 2013, 03:20:28 AM
Sad too that in the last 10 years only 2009-10 was worse in attendance. This past year, despite how good we were, we were 9th best of the last 10 and just bearly made it over 3K on average. And if you look at all 21 seasons, last season was the 18th worst. Hard to believe.
It defies logic, that's for sure. I wish I had an answer.
Sorry, I was remembering the 2001-2002 team that had NCAA win potential, not 2002-2003. Regardless, the drop is pretty dramatic.
Quote from: VULB#62 on August 20, 2013, 03:20:28 AMwe were 9th best of the last 10 and just bearly made it over 3K on average
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-rc0mwawjtUg/UGeATBxROYI/AAAAAAAABIo/bFETQ_H5zAk/s400/IMG_0800.JPG)
All this hand wringing about attendance...let's not forget that attendance figures at least at Valpo are estimated and include season tickets sold regardless of whether or not the tickets are used. Season tickets sales have been down recently. It's also possible/likely that estimates in recent years have been more accurate than in earlier years.
We have been through this before. At least during my time on campus, it was very accurate, as home games were packed, even against the woeful Cougars of Chicago State.
The number 1 rule of attendance: averages will be huge the year AFTER a championship. I expect next year to have a good average. We also have some good mid majors at home that should draw well.
I think the numbers we really should look at are the in-conference regular season numbers. We have increased this number over the past three years despite not having that 5k staple from playing Butler. I don't necessarily think that we're in freefall mode, I just think attendance numbers will fluctuate more from OOC games.
There's a lot of factors when it comes to attendance. The day of the week, weather (YSU last year), the opponent, school in session, etc. These aren't incredibly apparent in a rolling average from year to year. In 2010 Valpo hosted a Dick Vitel called Bracket Buster game on ESPN2, and OOC games against Ball State and Purdue. But the end of the year games were the two lowest attended games of the year: YSU in the conference tourney and Iona in the CIT. Looking at that season, I'm much happier where we are now.
Out of Conference figures were way down....don't you think the very weak OOC schedules have had a lot to do with it? I remember one year we played Concordia of Wisconsin!!!!! I couldn't even give my chairback seats away for that one...I think we won by about 40 or 50.
Uh, we have almost always had weak OOC home games...I remember Belmont several times (before they were good), UNC-Wilmington during a poor season for them, UW-Milwaukee, etc. The only decent home game we had in my time at VU was the Purdue game where Berdiel tripped over himself to effectively end the game.
Quote from: valpo64 on August 20, 2013, 12:52:51 PM
Out of Conference figures were way down....don't you think the very weak OOC schedules have had a lot to do with it? I remember one year we played Concordia of Wisconsin!!!!! I couldn't even give my chairback seats away for that one...I think we won by about 40 or 50.
Kind of, but we've been scheduling (not necessarily intentional) poor OOC opponents forever. In 1999, the year after Valpo went to the Sweet 16, Valpo played a December game against Wisconsin Lutheran College. Good school, but even our football team blew them out last time they played. In 1999-2000 season Valpo only had 1 D1 OOC home game (Belmont). Attendance was 4327 for the year. I imagine if they played Purdue instead of Wisconsin Lutheran, attendance average would have been even higher.
Whom you schedule does have something to do with attendance, but the implication that it's just NOW a problem is completely false.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on August 20, 2013, 09:14:02 AM
Quote from: VULB#62 on August 20, 2013, 03:20:28 AMwe were 9th best of the last 10 and just bearly made it over 3K on average
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-rc0mwawjtUg/UGeATBxROYI/AAAAAAAABIo/bFETQ_H5zAk/s400/IMG_0800.JPG)
Given the topic it seems appropriate that there are plenty of empty seats around the table. ;)
I agree with some of the comments that quality of opponents is important, but I would also argue that attendance is affected by having quality games when school is in session. Last season's home schedule was awful not only because the non-conference home games were against very poor opponents, but it was also hurt by two of the nine non-conference games being played when the students weren't there. Thus, there were only eight quality games when students were there (7 conference plus the Bracket Buster...maybe you could add the NIU game because of the novelty).
I would also argue that the effect on next year attendance after winning a championship only holds if there is "continued excitement". Nothing against the new players coming in, but it is hard to agree that last year's excitement carries over when so many players are gone.
When I get some time to play with it, I will run some linear regressions to see if there are any statistically significant causes. That of course is somewhat dubious given the attendance estimates rather than actual figures.
Quote from: wh on August 20, 2013, 02:57:02 PMGiven the topic it seems appropriate that there are plenty of empty seats around the table.
:) Chairback? More like BEARback!
This is not a Missouri State Bear--those bears didn't even show up
HEYO
Anytime I've seen Calihan Hall, whether on tv or HLN, it seemed that no one was really sitting floor level either. Even the game against Valpo at Calihan Hall didn't have a ton of fans sitting at floor level, or it's how the camera angle is positioned there that skews the look, but it just seems that Calihan Hall is a problem that Detroit needs to consider fixing, maybe ala Loyola or Chicago State arena setups?
I actually was off by a year, so my initial chart was inaccurate. I have all of the Horizon League years done, and am going back to check the day of the week/school in session averages.
(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/6344/yw8u.png)
(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/6862/d96z.png)
Maybe comparing the whole Horizon would be cool too.
Actually, there seems to be reason for some optimism here. Last season's conference regular season avg. was the 2nd highest since we joined the HL, and that was without Butler to inflate the numbers. This tells me that fan interest is there when we're competitive and the games are meaningful. It was the OOC attendance average that was dreadful, which makes sense when you consider how really bad our home OOC home line-up was. With this year's OOC home schedule projected to be MUCH better, hopefully OOC attendance will follow suit.
I agree with wh, I hope the OOC is MUCH better than the last few years, but going to hope the schedule brings out the fans, because we don't know enough about the depth of our roster, in terms of starters vs. first guy(s) off the bench, and how certain players will adapt to new roles in scoring, defense, position, plus the transfers that we don't know enough about in Chadwick and Carter in terms of what they can do after a year away from the court, and when Carter becomes eligible where he'll fit into the rotation. Like I said, I hope the schedule influences the November/December attendance, as we have too many question marks to be certain that this team will bring out the fans right away.
Quote from: wh on August 22, 2013, 11:03:09 PM
Actually, there seems to be reason for some optimism here. Last season's conference regular season avg. was the 2nd highest since we joined the HL, and that was without Butler to inflate the numbers. This tells me that fan interest is there when we're competitive and the games are meaningful. It was the OOC attendance average that was dreadful, which makes sense when you consider how really bad our home OOC home line-up was. With this year's OOC home schedule projected to be MUCH better, hopefully OOC attendance will follow suit.
I totally 100% agree with you, and this isn't something I found out until I started crunching these numbers. Our top attended OOC games was Georgia Southern last year. This year Valpo might finish .500 in conference, but I bet the attendance records will be better coming off a NCAA tourney birth, even with regular season games. Since we entered the Horizon, the previous years finishes have predicted an increase or decrease in attendance. When the finish is worse than the previous year, the attendance gets worse the NEXT year. When the finish is better than the previous year, the attendance gets better the NEXT year. Replacing Loyola with Oakland should also help slightly, since I bet a lot of people will want to see the new team coming in (this happened with other HL teams in 2007-2008 season when Valpo joined).
a3uge, not only will be the Oakland game have big attendance numbers because they are a new HL team, but a lot of the alums will remember our games against them in the Mid-Con, plus they like Greg Kampe as a person and a coach. Just ask STLVUfan about Greg Kampe.
Thanks for crunching those numbers, a3. good to see.
Quote from: valporun on August 22, 2013, 12:34:20 PM
Anytime I've seen Calihan Hall, whether on tv or HLN, it seemed that no one was really sitting floor level either. Even the game against Valpo at Calihan Hall didn't have a ton of fans sitting at floor level, or it's how the camera angle is positioned there that skews the look, but it just seems that Calihan Hall is a problem that Detroit needs to consider fixing, maybe ala Loyola or Chicago State arena setups?
Calihan Hall is fine for the purposes of the Titans and the Horizon League. I've attended 2 games at Calihan and sat in the seating on the floor twice. They just don't attract a lot of fans whatever the reason may be.
Quote from: valpotx on August 20, 2013, 01:17:52 PM
Uh, we have almost always had weak OOC home games...I remember Belmont several times (before they were good), UNC-Wilmington during a poor season for them, UW-Milwaukee, etc. The only decent home game we had in my time at VU was the Purdue game where Berdiel tripped over himself to effectively end the game.
Ummm, if you're thinking of the 2004-05 season when we came down there, that was the year we went to the Sweet Sixteen.
Quote from: bbtds on August 23, 2013, 06:04:15 PM
Quote from: valporun on August 22, 2013, 12:34:20 PM
Anytime I've seen Calihan Hall, whether on tv or HLN, it seemed that no one was really sitting floor level either. Even the game against Valpo at Calihan Hall didn't have a ton of fans sitting at floor level, or it's how the camera angle is positioned there that skews the look, but it just seems that Calihan Hall is a problem that Detroit needs to consider fixing, maybe ala Loyola or Chicago State arena setups?
Calihan Hall is fine for the purposes of the Titans and the Horizon League. I've attended 2 games at Calihan and sat in the seating on the floor twice. They just don't attract a lot of fans whatever the reason may be.
Roughly 90% of college sports fans are white. Once you know that fact, you realize that the unfortunate truth is a lot of Greater Detroit's white college basketball fans are probably too nervous to attend Detroit Titans games.
Quote from: blackpantheruwm on August 24, 2013, 01:02:20 PM
Quote from: bbtds on August 23, 2013, 06:04:15 PM
Quote from: valporun on August 22, 2013, 12:34:20 PM
Anytime I've seen Calihan Hall, whether on tv or HLN, it seemed that no one was really sitting floor level either. Even the game against Valpo at Calihan Hall didn't have a ton of fans sitting at floor level, or it's how the camera angle is positioned there that skews the look, but it just seems that Calihan Hall is a problem that Detroit needs to consider fixing, maybe ala Loyola or Chicago State arena setups?
Calihan Hall is fine for the purposes of the Titans and the Horizon League. I've attended 2 games at Calihan and sat in the seating on the floor twice. They just don't attract a lot of fans whatever the reason may be.
Roughly 90% of college sports fans are white. Once you know that fact, you realize that the unfortunate truth is a lot of Greater Detroit's white college basketball fans are probably too nervous to attend Detroit Titans games.
is it in a bad part of town? How bad?
Quote from: vu72 on August 24, 2013, 01:29:26 PM
is it in a bad part of town? How bad?
It's a dump. That is the main reason Detroit fans are so worried about Oakland. Oakland is located in the nice suburbs while Detroit is located just outside of some pretty sketchy areas.
Quote from: blackpantheruwm on August 24, 2013, 12:57:47 PM
Quote from: valpotx on August 20, 2013, 01:17:52 PM
Uh, we have almost always had weak OOC home games...I remember Belmont several times (before they were good), UNC-Wilmington during a poor season for them, UW-Milwaukee, etc. The only decent home game we had in my time at VU was the Purdue game where Berdiel tripped over himself to effectively end the game.
Ummm, if you're thinking of the 2004-05 season when we came down there, that was the year we went to the Sweet Sixteen.
I was at Valpo from 1999-2000 to 2003-2004. The game I am remembering we won 82-69 in 2001-2002. The past schedules say that we also played you at home in 2003-2004, losing 86-82. Regardless, my point was that UW-Milwaukee was not a draw at the box office, yet we still filled the stands for each game.
Never been to the UDM campus but I can tell you that the Oakland campus is beautiful. It wasn't too many years ago that OU was a community school but next year they will open several new dorms that will house several thousand students . Now they also have a new medical school. I believe they also have one or two golf courses, one of which just held a Michigan state wide tournament. It is quite a large school. I'm sure it will put a lot of pressure on UDM in many different ways, in both areas of sports and academics, and finances to support those programs.
Interesting in that I wonder how UD will survive givern the situation. US News reprts their endowment at only $25 million. Not much staying power. Their former President is now a VP at Valpo.
Quote from: vu72 on August 24, 2013, 09:05:12 PM
I wonder how UD will survive givern the situation.
the same way they always do!!! (it's ok because i'm a native of The D:)
The Office - I declare bankruptcy! Michael Scott (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuGIgf-ICHM#)
Quote from: valpo64 on August 24, 2013, 06:49:57 PM
Never been to the UDM campus but I can tell you that the Oakland campus is beautiful. It wasn't too many years ago that OU was a community school but next year they will open several new dorms that will house several thousand students . Now they also have a new medical school. I believe they also have one or two golf courses, one of which just held a Michigan state wide tournament. It is quite a large school. I'm sure it will put a lot of pressure on UDM in many different ways, in both areas of sports and academics, and finances to support those programs.
Actually,Oakland started out as Michigan State-Oakland in 1959.
Wild. I'd forgotten they were even public.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland_University (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland_University)