Two
Oakland University basketball players -- including one NBA prospect -- were arrested Thursday morning after allegedly raping a woman in L.A., TMZ Sports has learned.
Law enforcement sources tell us, 23-year-old starting guard
Duke Mondy and 20-year-old
Dante Williams were arrested inside a Culver City hotel following an SVU investigation, and subsequently booked for rape. They are each currently being held on $100,000 bail.
Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2013/11/15/oakland-university-dante-williams-murray-mondy-arrested-rape/#ixzz2kk64n6WX (http://www.tmz.com/2013/11/15/oakland-university-dante-williams-murray-mondy-arrested-rape/#ixzz2kk64n6WX)
Oakland fired the women's basketball coach for allegedly being "too religious." Apparently, she should have been teaching some basic human values to the men's team.
This is just so ridiculous. Not just that ANYONE would possibly do such a thing, but someone that is most likely wanting to make a lot of money in their field. Do you think things like these just won't come up if you do them? Idiots....
The Sheriff's Department official said the alleged victim was "incapable of consent."
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24238764/two-oakland-basketball-players-charged-with-rape-in-la (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24238764/two-oakland-basketball-players-charged-with-rape-in-la)
(http://www.reactiongifs.com//wp-content/gallery/no/kanye-smh-no.gif)
Stuff like this is why I'm hypersensitive to recruits demeaning women in their Twitter feed.
If they're guilty, book THROWN.
OU's game plan just went from good to bader.
According to cbssports.com, Kampe told them the charges have been dropped and the two players will fly back to Michigan and miss the California and Gonzaga games remaining on their trip.
Quote"They will be appropriately suspended upon review of the situation," said Kampe, who added that Mondy and Williams met the alleged victim at Wednesday's Clippers game at Staples Center. "This was more than going past curfew, more than breaking of team policy. It's more than that. I take it very seriously, am apologetic to our fans, apologetic to college basketball that something like this would happen."
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24238764/two-oakland-basketball-players-charged-with-rape-in-la (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24238764/two-oakland-basketball-players-charged-with-rape-in-la)
Just occurred to me that Kampe didn't apologize to the victim but he may be waiting for the university's investigation.
that's ridiculous.
carlos hyde, anyone?
...except who cares about oakland BB?
Similar to how jack a$$ Steve Alford never apologized for demeaning the victim in his Iowa coaching days?
Wanna bet their "suspensions" will not last into the HL season? :-X
Totally new story - just your everyday wholesome consensual 3-way with a total stranger:
http://www.tmz.com/2013/11/15/oakland-university-rape-investigation-murray-mondy-dante-williams/ (http://www.tmz.com/2013/11/15/oakland-university-rape-investigation-murray-mondy-dante-williams/)
They may be in the our league now, but they'll never be in our
class.
(there they're still in the InContinent Conference.)
My recently earned respect for Kampe is gone: get THIS:
Quote"This became a national story. That changes everything. If you run a red light and the cops don't see you, you don't get a ticket. If they see you, you get a ticket. The whole world saw us run that red light."
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20131115/SPORTS0203/311150093/Oakland-s-Greg-Kampe-Players-were-never-charged-reported-rape?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|Sports|s (http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20131115/SPORTS0203/311150093/Oakland-s-Greg-Kampe-Players-were-never-charged-reported-rape?odyssey=mod)
that's...that's ridiculous. so he wouldn't have done anything to them if TMZ hadn't found out.
Just keep your daughters away from the Valpo motels on Feb. 9 when the Golden Grizzlies come to town. They play on Sunday afternoon but let's hope nobody's here on Mondy.
That's the bad thing about being able to make such allegations. If they are true, then it is a horrible thing to do, of course. If the allegations made against people are just because someone regrets the decision they made, then it is ridiculous that people are held in jail while waiting for it to be cleared. Look at this Winston case. It looks like the police documents state the victim says her abuser was 5'9"-5'11"...Winston is 6'4" and you would think that someone could tell the difference between such heights, but I guess it changes your perception if someone is possibly drunk
On one hand, this is another case of a woman alleging rape after making a couple of extremely poor decisions.
On the other hand, these two boys shouldn't have put themselves in this situation in the first place. A threesome the night before a big game? You're Oakland University basketball players, not Magic Johnson.
Quote from: a3uge on November 18, 2013, 09:39:39 AM
On one hand, this is another case of a woman alleging rape after making a couple of extremely poor decisions.
According to the arrest report, yes. The worst thing is: all we can really say is that it *looks* like she was not a victim. We can't say for absolute certainty.
Quote
On the other hand, these two boys shouldn't have put themselves in this situation in the first place. A threesome the night before a big game? You're Oakland University basketball players, not Magic Johnson.
Agreed. A couple of OU fans (one is a media member I think) are going back and forth on this on twitter today, debating this very point. The media guy is arguing your point, and doing just fine at it, so I haven't jumped in.
Quote from: StlVUFan on November 18, 2013, 06:03:57 PM
Quote from: a3uge on November 18, 2013, 09:39:39 AM
On one hand, this is another case of a woman alleging rape after making a couple of extremely poor decisions.
According to the arrest report, yes. The worst thing is: all we can really say is that it *looks* like she was not a victim. We can't say for absolute certainty.
Quote
On the other hand, these two boys shouldn't have put themselves in this situation in the first place. A threesome the night before a big game? You're Oakland University basketball players, not Magic Johnson.
Agreed. A couple of OU fans (one is a media member I think) are going back and forth on this on twitter today, debating this very point. The media guy is arguing your point, and doing just fine at it, so I haven't jumped in.
I think I found what you were talking about. The argument "every single player in college athletics does the exact same thing" is prrrobably incorrect. I can't exactly see Chadwick and Clay Yeo having a threesome with a random "broad" late at night in a hotel room.
Quote from: a3uge on November 18, 2013, 06:35:51 PMthreesome
how come no one's mentioned this? not just "a trois", but a *devil's 3-way*? that's awful.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on November 18, 2013, 06:54:07 PM
Quote from: a3uge on November 18, 2013, 06:35:51 PMthreesome
how come no one's mentioned this? not just "a trois", but a *devil's 3-way*? that's awful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi7gwX7rjOw
Quote from: a3uge on November 18, 2013, 06:35:51 PMI think I found what you were talking about. The argument "every single player in college athletics does the exact same thing" is prrrobably incorrect. I can't exactly see Chadwick and Clay Yeo having a threesome with a random "broad" late at night in a hotel room.
I bet if you asked them they could think of somebody that would be mutually agreeable................I digress, that obviously would never happen..............or would it.............NEVER on a road trip or before a game..............I hope.
Quote from: a3uge on November 18, 2013, 06:35:51 PM
Quote from: StlVUFan on November 18, 2013, 06:03:57 PM
Quote from: a3uge on November 18, 2013, 09:39:39 AM
On one hand, this is another case of a woman alleging rape after making a couple of extremely poor decisions.
According to the arrest report, yes. The worst thing is: all we can really say is that it *looks* like she was not a victim. We can't say for absolute certainty.
Quote
On the other hand, these two boys shouldn't have put themselves in this situation in the first place. A threesome the night before a big game? You're Oakland University basketball players, not Magic Johnson.
Agreed. A couple of OU fans (one is a media member I think) are going back and forth on this on twitter today, debating this very point. The media guy is arguing your point, and doing just fine at it, so I haven't jumped in.
I think I found what you were talking about. The argument "every single player in college athletics does the exact same thing" is prrrobably incorrect. I can't exactly see Chadwick and Clay Yeo having a threesome with a random "broad" late at night in a hotel room.
Crap, if everyone in college athletics does that, I missed out on the cool version of such a thing (no devil's 3-way)
Quote from: valpotx on November 19, 2013, 01:08:01 AM
Quote from: a3uge on November 18, 2013, 06:35:51 PM
Quote from: StlVUFan on November 18, 2013, 06:03:57 PM
Quote from: a3uge on November 18, 2013, 09:39:39 AM
On one hand, this is another case of a woman alleging rape after making a couple of extremely poor decisions.
According to the arrest report, yes. The worst thing is: all we can really say is that it *looks* like she was not a victim. We can't say for absolute certainty.
Quote
On the other hand, these two boys shouldn't have put themselves in this situation in the first place. A threesome the night before a big game? You're Oakland University basketball players, not Magic Johnson.
Agreed. A couple of OU fans (one is a media member I think) are going back and forth on this on twitter today, debating this very point. The media guy is arguing your point, and doing just fine at it, so I haven't jumped in.
I think I found what you were talking about. The argument "every single player in college athletics does the exact same thing" is prrrobably incorrect. I can't exactly see Chadwick and Clay Yeo having a threesome with a random "broad" late at night in a hotel room.
Crap, if everyone in college athletics does that, I missed out on the cool version of such a thing (no devil's 3-way)
I'm half there with you and half feeling really old because I think "casual sex" is a contradiction in terms.
Quote from: StlVUFan on November 19, 2013, 07:23:54 AM"casual sex" is a contradiction in terms
amen, brother, amen. we'll inherit the ruins and rebuild western civ together.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on November 19, 2013, 07:56:26 AM
Quote from: StlVUFan on November 19, 2013, 07:23:54 AM"casual sex" is a contradiction in terms
amen, brother, amen. we'll inherit the ruins and rebuild western civ together.
We are a rudderless ship sailing into the mystic:
Colin James- Into the Mystic (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLqJjaPChwg#)
Very alluring - until we crash.
THAT'S NOT VAN MORRISON AT ALL
(http://global3.memecdn.com/meme-center-epic-fail-department_o_287044.jpg)
*we would also have accepted Glen Hansard
Been about 4 years since I was involved at the college level. It was really hard for me to believe the activity level of a fair number of kids. I would ask them questions about whether they expected to get married and what their spouses trust level would be if they knew about their casual attitude about sex and the number of partners they hooked up with before marriage. They had no clue... it just seemed to be some kind of game for them. I know that this all happened when I was in school, but not nearly to this level.
I am sure this really makes me sound old.
Quote from: FWalum on November 20, 2013, 08:57:25 AMI am sure this really makes me sound old eminently wise.
there i fixed it for you
You mean all of you didn't double team women with your best bro in hotel rooms when you were in college? Man, this is embarrassing...
Guess you guys just don't understand the life of a college athlete.
America in decline; it's best days behind. Rotting from the inside out. No moral compass. A rudderless ship headed for the abyss.
no way dude. not yet. just split it into two, Israel in the north and Judah the south. We'll last a lot longer that way.
Pope Paul VI was prophetic in his encyclical against contraception (Humanae Vitae, 1968). And while as a Lutheran I do not strictly oppose contraceptives like "the pill", its use by younger and younger couples outside of marriage has caused a societal shift. Pope Paul predicted that contraceptive use would encourage man to lose respect for woman, considering her "as a mere instrument of selfish enjoyment, and no longer as his respected and beloved companion." Through abortion and contraception, women have been degraded to an object of sexual use. Many relationships now are devoid of any authentic interest in the other, because abortion and contraception have opened an even wider door for manipulation. I have spent the last 13 years working with and developing vital records software (birth and death records) and the changes are dramatic and IMHO the root cause of most of the cultures problems. Today nearly 60% of all births are outside of marriage, young men, unless of extremely high character, feel little or no responsibility to the children that they father because all reproductive power is perceived to be in the hands of the women, the poverty level % of young women has increase dramatically and maintaining the educational level of young single parent children is educations biggest challenge. In other words the family structure is all but caput and children bear the brunt of their parent's indifference. In rides the Government on its white horse to fix all of the symptoms while never quite understanding that the family must be preserved, promoted and incentivised in order to solve the real problem.
I relinquish the soap box.
It seems Oakland has reinstated the two players already. I wonder what signal such apparently lenient treatment offers, and I find the following Kampe quote sadly amusing:
"I am at issue with the moral connotations of what occurred, but I work at a public institution where diverse beliefs and ideals are accepted," Kampe said in a statement.
I love you, FWalum. You are the man.
(http://stlouisreview.com/sites/default/files/article-images/7/pius-vi-fr-scott.jpg)
Quote from: valpopal on November 20, 2013, 03:32:09 PM
It seems Oakland has reinstated the two players already. I wonder what signal such apparently lenient treatment offers, and I find the following Kampe quote sadly amusing:
"I am at issue with the moral connotations of what occurred, but I work at a public institution where diverse beliefs and ideals are accepted," Kampe said in a statement.
For all I know, he wanted to add (but was afraid to), "and we just had a major issue with that on our other basketball team."
According to some tweets I saw he's setting up "workshops and training sessions to address the incident and additional life skills." (Paul Kampe tweeted this today; I think he's probably got an article up on the Oakland Press talking about it).
Quote from: StlVUFan on November 20, 2013, 05:52:51 PM
Quote from: valpopal on November 20, 2013, 03:32:09 PM
It seems Oakland has reinstated the two players already. I wonder what signal such apparently lenient treatment offers, and I find the following Kampe quote sadly amusing:
"I am at issue with the moral connotations of what occurred, but I work at a public institution where diverse beliefs and ideals are accepted," Kampe said in a statement.
For all I know, he wanted to add (but was afraid to), "and we just had a major issue with that on our other basketball team."
According to some tweets I saw he's setting up "workshops and training sessions to address the incident and additional life skills." (Paul Kampe tweeted this today; I think he's probably got an article up on the Oakland Press talking about it).
"Workshops and training sessions": code language for giving the superficial appearance of doing something while doing nothing substantive. "I am at issue with the moral connotations of what occurred, but I work at a public institution where diverse beliefs and ideals are accepted": code language for apparently anything goes and I can't do a damn thing about it even though I disagree with that notion.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on November 20, 2013, 03:35:14 PMI love you, FWalum. You are the man.
Back at you LAA. Lots of hours listening to Redeemer Radio, the Catholic radio station here in Fort Wayne along with Issues Etc., Lutheran talk radio podcasts.
Quote from: valpopal on November 20, 2013, 06:28:52 PM
Quote from: StlVUFan on November 20, 2013, 05:52:51 PM
Quote from: valpopal on November 20, 2013, 03:32:09 PM
It seems Oakland has reinstated the two players already. I wonder what signal such apparently lenient treatment offers, and I find the following Kampe quote sadly amusing:
"I am at issue with the moral connotations of what occurred, but I work at a public institution where diverse beliefs and ideals are accepted," Kampe said in a statement.
For all I know, he wanted to add (but was afraid to), "and we just had a major issue with that on our other basketball team."
According to some tweets I saw he's setting up "workshops and training sessions to address the incident and additional life skills." (Paul Kampe tweeted this today; I think he's probably got an article up on the Oakland Press talking about it).
"Workshops and training sessions": code language for giving the superficial appearance of doing something while doing nothing substantive. "I am at issue with the moral connotations of what occurred, but I work at a public institution where diverse beliefs and ideals are accepted": code language for apparently anything goes and I can't do a damn thing about it even though I disagree with that notion.
Early on I predicted that the suspensions would just fall short of the HL season opener. Well, I admit I was way off. WH, I agree -- society in the toilet. And Oakland is leading the way. Boys and girls, can you say AY BOM IN A SHUN??????
Quote from: valpopal on November 20, 2013, 03:32:09 PM"I am at issue with the moral connotations of what occurred, but I work at a public institution where diverse beliefs and ideals are accepted," Kampe said in a statement.
Yeah...that's...that's the worst PC expression I've ever heard.
No beliefs or ideals are at play--just the opposite thereof. What a crock.
Is someone really going to tell me that Dick Harlan would approve of his friend any more?
Quote from: VULB#62 on November 20, 2013, 08:41:35 PM
Quote from: valpopal on November 20, 2013, 06:28:52 PM
Quote from: StlVUFan on November 20, 2013, 05:52:51 PM
Quote from: valpopal on November 20, 2013, 03:32:09 PM
It seems Oakland has reinstated the two players already. I wonder what signal such apparently lenient treatment offers, and I find the following Kampe quote sadly amusing:
"I am at issue with the moral connotations of what occurred, but I work at a public institution where diverse beliefs and ideals are accepted," Kampe said in a statement.
For all I know, he wanted to add (but was afraid to), "and we just had a major issue with that on our other basketball team."
According to some tweets I saw he's setting up "workshops and training sessions to address the incident and additional life skills." (Paul Kampe tweeted this today; I think he's probably got an article up on the Oakland Press talking about it).
"Workshops and training sessions": code language for giving the superficial appearance of doing something while doing nothing substantive. "I am at issue with the moral connotations of what occurred, but I work at a public institution where diverse beliefs and ideals are accepted": code language for apparently anything goes and I can't do a damn thing about it even though I disagree with that notion.
And Oakland is leading the way.
"leading the way"?????????????
Oh, C'mon. Following is more like it.
Society has been in the crapper for DECADES now, and we can all find worse offenders than this. I mean, I have zero sympathy for Messrs Mondy and Williams, but gee whiz, exaggerate much?
There's really nothing new under the sun. There's just a lot more sunlight now.
Quote from: StlVUFan on November 20, 2013, 10:44:03 PM"leading the way"?
Oh, C'mon. Following is more like it.
Society has been in the crapper for DECADES now, and we can all find worse offenders than this. I mean, I have zero sympathy for Messrs Mondy and Williams, but gee whiz, exaggerate much?
There's really nothing new under the sun. There's just a lot more sunlight now.
Agree. Actually about 10 to 15 years ago there was a similar situation at, of all places, Oral Roberts. Two players were accused of rape by a young woman. The woman later dropped the charges.
Quote from: bbtds on November 20, 2013, 11:35:41 PM
Quote from: StlVUFan on November 20, 2013, 10:44:03 PM"leading the way"?
Oh, C'mon. Following is more like it.
Society has been in the crapper for DECADES now, and we can all find worse offenders than this. I mean, I have zero sympathy for Messrs Mondy and Williams, but gee whiz, exaggerate much?
There's really nothing new under the sun. There's just a lot more sunlight now.
Agree. Actually about 10 to 15 years ago there was a similar situation at, of all places, Oral Roberts. Two players were accused of rape by a young woman. The woman later dropped the charges.
That reminds me: the worst part of something like that, at least for me, is that there's no comfortable conclusion to draw from that fact. It is, of course, possible that the woman was intimidated into dropping the charges, much like the young woman at Iowa when what's-his-name got his friend to stage a "Christian" intervention.
It is also *possible* that she dropped the charges because it didn't actually happen.
And no matter which conclusion we choose to draw about that, we run the risk of dehumanizing someone. How do we know someone on the coaching staff didn't try to influence the investigation to bring about the eventual disposition whereby the charges were dropped. Without knowing for sure, it can be irresponsible to seriously argue that position. But, if we extrapolate from that the necessity to draw the opposite conclusion, namely that of course they raped her (for no other reason than we don't want to risk being guilty of blaming the victim), we risk committing an equal and opposite injustice against the players. Not to say the risk is the same both ways, mind you, but there are risks with either conclusion.
Which is why, I think if I was Kampe, I'd be scorched-earth pissed at Mondy and Williams for saddling me with this impossible dilemma.
It sounds to me like Kampe is saying he's caught between a rock and a hard place. Again, that's hardly his fault. Of course, I'm an acquaintance of his, so I am hopelessly biased. That's not sarcasm, by the way. That's an admission. I like the guy. I would -- again -- point out that he's also faced with an additional dilemma because of his colleague who just got fired over imposing her values on her team. Not feeling sorry for him; he's a veteran coach and I'm sure this is not brand new territory for him. Like every other coach, and truthfully every other human being, I'm sure he's filled with a mixture of motives for everything he says and does, some good and some bad.
All I would say is that just because I would probably kick the two young men off the team permanently and revoke their scholarship doesn't make me feel superior to him because he's not going to do anything close to that. You see, it's easy for me, sitting in the peanut gallery, to say what I would do in his shoes. I'll bet my 401(k) if I *actually* was in his shoes, I'd do something very close to what he's doing. It is very tempting to feel superior to someone because they are acting in a less decisive manner than you think they should.
And while the argument can be made that these young men are still growing up, the fact remains that they did this to themselves (to say nothing of what they did or did not do to the young woman), they let down their teammates. There's a third thing just sitting out there for me to throw in there, but honestly I can't past the fact that I literally have no empathy for what apparently is a staple of "College Life" these days. Being 55, I guess I'm too old to appreciate the new normal. It boggles my mind, and I'm ill-equipped to connect with someone who thinks that way and then stumble like this. On an intellectual level, I obviously get the temptation here -- I'm not innocent. It's the matter-of-factness of it that startles me.
Good thing I'm *not* in Kampe's shoes. I'd probably get up on my high horse and just make things worse. The one beef I had with the guy fighting on the same side of that twitter conversation I mentioned the other day is that he didn't want to own up to being on his high horse. I would have said, you bet I am. You got a problem with that? But if I were a coach, I also have a responsibility to coach and teach and manage team chemistry and a lot of other things I don't fully understand. One way or the other, I'm absolutely certain I would make a worse mess out of it.
In short, I don't envy Kampe's shoes one bit, and I have a healthy respect for someone who accepts the responsibility to lead young men down the right path, knowing that one of them could spell the end of his career. He's responsible for his own actions as coach, and I'm not his apologist, which is why I haven't tried to defend what he's said and decided. I hope you'll understand if I don't join your conclusion that his training sessions are code language for sweeping things under the rug. There's always the chance that it's not.
Quote from: StlVUFan on November 21, 2013, 02:01:44 AM
In short, I don't envy Kampe's shoes one bit, and I have a healthy respect for someone who accepts the responsibility to lead young men down the right path, knowing that one of them could spell the end of his career. He's responsible for his own actions as coach, and I'm not his apologist, which is why I haven't tried to defend what he's said and decided. I hope you'll understand if I don't join your conclusion that his training sessions are code language for sweeping things under the rug. There's always the chance that it's not.
My comments about training sessions being a way of doing something superficial while avoiding something substantive were not meant as criticism of Kampe, whom I like, but as a view of academia. It was obvious from Kampe's comment he did not agree with that solution but apparently was being forced to abide by guidance from his university's administration that he found at odds with his own beliefs.
In fact, I found Kampe's comment ("I am at issue with the moral connotations of what occurred, but I work at a public institution where diverse beliefs and ideals are accepted") to be a not so hidden dig at group thinking in academia, especially in a public university, where the term "diverse" is too often used and abused to justify that almost any attitude or behavior is beyond criticism and consequence but to be "accepted."
Well, I like your interpretation better than mine--for Kampe, anyway.
Too many college athletes have intimidated women into silence--Naples High's own Carlos Hyde this fall at OSU. I don't even exempt my Michigan, what with Brendan Gibbons still kicking FGs and getting applause.
It's a shame, all the way around.
Training sessions? Training for what? Kampe already said that basically anything goes in a "diverse" public institution, so what would the training be about? Being more discreet? The dangers of unprotected sex with a complete stranger off the street? Why breaking curfew is not a "good choice?"
It certainly couldn't be about the act itself, or being a good role model, or representing Oakland University with dignity. No, no! That would be making a value judgement about the behavior itself, and who is anyone to judge another's behavior? After all, what makes one's moral standards better than another. Right?
Quote from: valpopal on November 21, 2013, 09:35:22 AM
Quote from: StlVUFan on November 21, 2013, 02:01:44 AM
In short, I don't envy Kampe's shoes one bit, and I have a healthy respect for someone who accepts the responsibility to lead young men down the right path, knowing that one of them could spell the end of his career. He's responsible for his own actions as coach, and I'm not his apologist, which is why I haven't tried to defend what he's said and decided. I hope you'll understand if I don't join your conclusion that his training sessions are code language for sweeping things under the rug. There's always the chance that it's not.
My comments about training sessions being a way of doing something superficial while avoiding something substantive were not meant as criticism of Kampe, whom I like, but as a view of academia. It was obvious from Kampe's comment he did not agree with that solution but apparently was being forced to abide by guidance from his university's administration that he found at odds with his own beliefs.
In fact, I found Kampe's comment ("I am at issue with the moral connotations of what occurred, but I work at a public institution where diverse beliefs and ideals are accepted") to be a not so hidden dig at group thinking in academia, especially in a public university, where the term "diverse" is too often used and abused to justify that almost any attitude or behavior is beyond criticism and consequence but to be "accepted."
Agree with you guys. I don't blame Kampe for this (except that maybe he needs to monitor curfew better) situation and actual agree that the quoted part of his statement was rather bold and maybe a little risky, but he probably has a lot of equity built up in his coaching account. Glad I only had to deal with kids who didn't pass our mandatory drug tests. Those situations where pretty clear cut.
The OU is disgusting...period! If you ever heard the Coach when he is on Detroit radio WJR as he is now and then, you'd think he was the model of college basketball coaching. The last time I heard him, which was as month or so ago, he gave the impression that his longevity was a real asset for him and it helps him in running his program the way he wants to do it. It just sounds like some major schools, football or basketball, programs who care more about their own individual success rather than teaching young men on lessons on life as it relates to the sport in which they participate. Someone let the air out of Coach Kampe"s chest
Things like the OU situation should really make us appreciate Bryce and his staff.
Hello Valpo fans! Always enjoy reading your board and have been lurking for awhile. Was finally time to chime in. Just wanted to bring a few more things to the table in regards to this. After reading the police report, it was stated in there that Dante Williams should never have been charged with anything. The sex with him was admitted by the alleged victim to have been consensual. That right there throws the original story for a loop. Next, Coach Kampe and the university we're put in a spot by a terrible decision by these two. However, all they were really guilty of is making incredibly stupid decisions and breaking curfew. That's the hardest part of it for coach to decide how to punish. In the legal system they are totally innocent. On the court they can still be held accountable, but it's deciding what they're being punished for. Having sex isn't illegal. I doubt there's a team rule about devils threesomes (although it's disgusting and shouldn't have to have been placed in team rules) but the end story is he's having to punish them for bringing a bad light on themselves and the university. Last night Williams returned. Duke did not. He's traveling but not playing. He watched as OU lost a late lead be could have helped protect. The team is 0-5 and could be argued with Mondy they'd have won 2 of those games. He's getting punishment. But you can't punish a kid for something they didn't do. And that's the dilemma Kampe was talking about. Now back to lurking for me. Good luck this season to you guys. Except when you play us.
Quote from: Oudrummer on November 24, 2013, 08:34:09 AMbut the end story is he's having to punish them for bringing a bad light on themselves and the university.
My guess is that at Valpo the punishment for this is a lot greater than at Oakland. And not just because of the institutional control issues.
Quote from: Oudrummer on November 24, 2013, 08:34:09 AM
Hello Valpo fans! Always enjoy reading your board and have been lurking for awhile. Was finally time to chime in. Just wanted to bring a few more things to the table in regards to this. After reading the police report, it was stated in there that Dante Williams should never have been charged with anything. The sex with him was admitted by the alleged victim to have been consensual. That right there throws the original story for a loop. Next, Coach Kampe and the university we're put in a spot by a terrible decision by these two. However, all they were really guilty of is making incredibly stupid decisions and breaking curfew. That's the hardest part of it for coach to decide how to punish. In the legal system they are totally innocent. On the court they can still be held accountable, but it's deciding what they're being punished for. Having sex isn't illegal. I doubt there's a team rule about devils threesomes (although it's disgusting and shouldn't have to have been placed in team rules) but the end story is he's having to punish them for bringing a bad light on themselves and the university. Last night Williams returned. Duke did not. He's traveling but not playing. He watched as OU lost a late lead be could have helped protect. The team is 0-5 and could be argued with Mondy they'd have won 2 of those games. He's getting punishment. But you can't punish a kid for something they didn't do. And that's the dilemma Kampe was talking about. Now back to lurking for me. Good luck this season to you guys. Except when you play us.
A fair recitation, although there's one more potential issue that you didn't cover: what if she were to get pregnant because of it? Then I'd say that while there still would be no law broken, the offense would be slightly more than simply putting the university in a bad light.
By the way, I believe Mondy played today against St. Joe's, but you're right he didn't play against ULL.
Quote from: StlVUFan on November 24, 2013, 10:10:58 PM
By the way, I believe Mondy played today against St. Joe's St Francis of Brooklyn, but you're right he didn't play against ULL.
When a school is paying for a young athlete's full education and all the perks that go with it and then his or her actions bring a bad light on that institution, why shouldn't they be punished with something more significant than a slap on the hand. While Coach Kampe is a very good coach, he is too full of himself to do anything that may hurt his program. Teaching is more than coaching a basketball program/wins and losses. My thoughts are that his longevity may have produced a better than average basketball program. But his teaching and developing young men, many of which can really use some lessons on life, leaves a lot to be desired.
Quote from: valpo64 on November 25, 2013, 10:04:06 AM
When a school is paying for a young athlete's full education and all the perks that go with it and then his or her actions bring a bad light on that institution, why shouldn't they be punished with something more significant than a slap on the hand. While Coach Kampe is a very good coach, he is too full of himself to do anything that may hurt his program. Teaching is more than coaching a basketball program/wins and losses. My thoughts are that his longevity may have produced a better than average basketball program. But his teaching and developing young men, many of which can really use some lessons on life, leaves a lot to be desired.
It's just as plausible to suggest that he wanted to, but didn't feel free to.
AGAIN: I think *either* conclusion is a bit premature.
Is it possible that Kampe didn't take action because he knows that if Mondy and Williams were innocent, and were kicked off the team before proven such, that they would sue OU and Kampe for character defamation, so Kampe was covering his butt until further notice?
Quote from: valporun on November 26, 2013, 03:31:58 PM
Is it possible that Kampe didn't take action because he knows that if Mondy and Williams were innocent, and were kicked off the team before proven such, that they would sue OU and Kampe for character defamation, so Kampe was covering his butt until further notice?
Not just his butt but the university's.
Anything is possible. It looks a lot easier from the peanut gallery ;)
Quote from: StlVUFan on November 26, 2013, 04:44:16 PM
Quote from: valporun on November 26, 2013, 03:31:58 PM
Is it possible that Kampe didn't take action because he knows that if Mondy and Williams were innocent, and were kicked off the team before proven such, that they would sue OU and Kampe for character defamation, so Kampe was covering his butt until further notice?
Not just his butt but the university's.
Anything is possible. It looks a lot easier from the peanut gallery ;)
Good points. Similar to the Dez Wells situation at Xavier. After he was expelled over allegations that led to no charges, the NCAA granted him immediate eligibility at Maryland and now he's filed suit against Xavier.
Quote from: StlVUFan on November 26, 2013, 04:44:16 PM
Quote from: valporun on November 26, 2013, 03:31:58 PM
Is it possible that Kampe didn't take action because he knows that if Mondy and Williams were innocent, and were kicked off the team before proven such, that they would sue OU and Kampe for character defamation, so Kampe was covering his butt until further notice?
Not just his butt but the university's.
Anything is possible. It looks a lot easier from the peanut gallery ;)
I am surprised that there are so many different readings on this. I thought it was pretty clear from Kampe's statement that the decision was not really made by him but for him most likely for legal/political reasons.
If any of you have heard a 10-15 minute interview with Kampe, especially this year, you may feel differently about him. While he relished the fact that they were now in the HL, he gave me a definite impression that he pulls a great amount of weight at OU. At least that is the feeling I got when listening to him addressing the upcoming season. He continued to say how tough his schedule was but that was the way he wanted it. Good for him...0-8 or whatever their record is now. They will probably waltz through their HL schedule, right? Too much pressure now that his season has started?????????
Quote from: valpo64 on November 27, 2013, 12:50:02 PM
If any of you have heard a 10-15 minute interview with Kampe, especially this year, you may feel differently about him. While he relished the fact that they were now in the HL, he gave me a definite impression that he pulls a great amount of weight at OU. At least that is the feeling I got when listening to him addressing the upcoming season. He continued to say how tough his schedule was but that was the way he wanted it. Good for him...0-8 or whatever their record is now. They will probably waltz through their HL schedule, right? Too much pressure now that his season has started?????????
Vintage Kampe. Hasn't changed over the years.
OU fans could have easily said the same thing about Homer, by the way. Anytime a coach is at one place for 30 years or so, there's a decent chance a bit of hero worship is going on.
Arrogance vs. humility.....no comparison!
As a fan of Oakland for all 30 years the coach has been here, one thing Oakland fans know, Kampe is about Oakland. Always has been. Yes, he is a promoter, but he promotes Oakland. Not himself. He has had many documented chances to leave for much more money and never has. But that is not why I answered this. Our schedule was made a year ago, before we entered the Horizon league. Kampe has been quoted saying that now that we are in the Horizon league he hopes to back down the non-conference part of the schedule. My question to 64 is. If all he cares about is his himself, why would he play the 70 some BCS schools we have played over the past 13 years? We are like 6-70 in those games. Why wouldn't he play the Alabama A&Ms of the world. That would give him a 70-6 record. (see Wright State). If he were about himself wouldn't he want wins to build his resume? Also something very telling. He reinstated the 2 kids yet he didn't play one in the next game and the game after that only half. We lost both those games to beatable teams. Hummmmmm. Maybe winning those games weren't the reason they got back on the team.
Always good to hear both sides of an issue. Grizz, you point out some valid aguments. Not having been on the board when VU and Oakland went head-to-head in the MCC, I can't comment on the past. Can't comment on Kampe either, but I do feel that athletes and coaches have to be held to a higher standard. The notariety this incident brought to OU, and by extension the HL, should, IMO, have been handled with a stronger statement by the university. Kids make mistakes. But, a OOC one game suspension for bringing very negative publicity (regardless of the actual outcome) to OU's steps, especially in light of all the national stuff flying around about an OU women's ex-coach, demanded more of a response. Can't do anything about that now, so let's just move on and play basketball.
My favorite part was his dig at Wright State, man I hate that team more then any other of our conference foes (yes, even more then Detroit).
Actually, no, schedules are made during the spring and summer. I don't think any of Oakland's non-conference games were part of multi-year contracts made before Oakland was invited to join the Horizon. And Kampe on several documented occasions tried to leave Oakland, but didn't get the job.
But that's OK, he's a good promoter and a good coach and he's made the Oakland program. He literally made a good mid-major coaching job for himself. I can't see him leaving Oakland now. Even if the University doesn't increase his budget (it should, but probably won't), he's got some significant savings on travel he can invest in recruiting, etc., or in passing up a couple of those annual "guarantee games," which tend to guarantee both a payday and a loss, for more winnable home contests.
Quote from: FWalum on November 26, 2013, 11:03:09 PMI thought it was pretty clear from Kampe's statement that the decision was not really made by him but for him most likely for legal/political reasons.
Well, FW may have been surprised that there were so many interpretations, but that's how hermeneutics works.
Just so turns out FW was right, I and others were wrong:
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140103/SPORTS0203/301030098/Speedy-Oakland-guard-Duke-Mondy-pace-historic-season?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CSports%7Cp (http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140103/SPORTS0203/301030098/Speedy-Oakland-guard-Duke-Mondy-pace-historic-season?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CSports%7Cp)
Quote"I have a real problem with what happened in California, morally, but I didn't grow up on the streets, or how he grew up," Kampe said. "The compass that I have inside of me and the compass that Duke has inside of him aren't the same. ... Duke is a good young man. We've just got to work on his compass."
From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140103/SPORTS0203/301030098#ixzz2pOnlkzvz (http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140103/SPORTS0203/301030098#ixzz2pOnlkzvz)
So, appears the only thing wrong with Coach, apart from his sadomasochistic taste in scheduling, is that he subscribes to the popular-despite-its-internal-incoherence pseudophilosophy that "I may be personally opposed, but who am I..." yada yada.
(Interesting that he would use a compass to illustrate moral relativism. All compasses, by nature, point the same direction. If they don't, then they are defective compasses. It's not "well, what does YOUR compass say?")
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on January 03, 2014, 10:06:43 PMSo, appears the only thing wrong with Coach, apart from his sadomasochistic taste in scheduling, is that he subscribes to the popular-despite-its-internal-incoherence pseudophilosophy that "I may be personally opposed, but who am I..." yada yada.
I think you're misinterpreting "we've got work on his compass" then. Obviously that part does not jibe with any sort of "who am I?" relativism.
Oh, I think that's true. At least I hope it is. But does sitting out a couple games really recalibrate this kid? He was run out of his previous college, pretty much. And what was learned? (Although, you could point out that since that didn't work on his compass at Providence, would it have again? :/ )
I guess, bottom line--perhaps many or at least several on this board will remember--the now 20-odd year old case of a VU student expelled for the mere allegation of rape. No charges were ever filed, however. I'm not wanting to rehash the specifics of that case, which went regional if not national (the Chicago Tribune Sunday mag did a huge cover story), but rather how serious mere allegations in the absence of charges were treated by a major university.
I fear that if Mondy, Williams, Sledge et al. were not basketball players, they'd have been sent home for good. Heck, JP Tenuta was sent home for less. Logan Jones too.
I would like athletes to be held to the same standards as the rest of society. I know that's a pipe dream. But it's worth pursuing.
Maybe at a Private school your right. Not a public. They did not commit a crime. No chance a normal student would be sent home. In fact a normal student would not have there named linked with it because it would not have been news. Joe average name googled the rest of his life will be blank, these two will have that article ( no matter that it was false) appear when a future employer googles them. They paid a big price.
I wonder if the slap on the hands hurt!
Quote from: Grizz on January 04, 2014, 11:20:04 AMThey paid a big price
they also learned that being able to put a ball through a hoop with a higher degree of regularity than the general populace will get all kinds of sins forgiven