Well, the long wait is over, and Keith Carter is suiting up soon in the Sunshine State. (try saying that five point four times fast)
Certainly it's a highly anticipated debut, for a number of reasons:
--it's a midseason addition to a good team (usually a team debuts all together)
--he's a transfer from a good program
--and also, HE'S GOOD you guys.
Got me thinking--who are the people whose first game in the Brown and Gold you have anxiously looked forward to? And who paid off and then some? I think back to Bryce, obviously.
Then there were people that maybe weren't as touted but should have been (Brandon Wood).
There were those that were looked forward to and maybe weren't as good as the hype, but still good (Kenny Harris).
Then those who were hyped but really could have saved us all the drama (Tony Falu, Mo Kone--maybe Rob Harden, peoples?).
Who are the people whose Crusader debuts are those to which you have MOST looked forward?
(A preposition at the end of a sentence is something up with which I will not put)
Ali Berdiel's debut was much anticipated. There was hype around him prior to wearing a Valpo jersey.
I was anticipating Moussa's debut as well. He didn't have the hype surrounding him but it had been a long time since we had a 7 footer with that type of athleticism.
I think Keith Or Alec will be one of the best to ever put on a Valpo Jersey
This year's freshmen class. Primarily because it would dictate the future of Valpo basketball and the future right now is quite bright.
To be honest, I haven't been this pumped up for a players debut since Kenny Harris. Feels like getting a Broekhoff for xmas.
There was a great deal of hype about the Falu debut...
How about:
Kenny Harris?
Kareem Abdul Jabbar Jr?
David Redmon?
I was super excited about Redmon because VHS obviously; I was excited about KA-J JR simply because of the name, and boy if that wasn't a letdown!
Casey Schmidt too.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on December 15, 2013, 08:09:01 PM
Well, the long wait is over, and Keith Carter is suiting up soon in the Sunshine State. (try saying that five point four times fast)
Certainly it's a highly anticipated debut, for a number of reasons:
--it's a midseason addition to a good team (usually a team debuts all together)
--he's a transfer from a good program
--and also, HE'S GOOD you guys.
Got me thinking--who are the people whose first game in the Brown and Gold you have anxiously looked forward to? And who paid off and then some? I think back to Bryce, obviously.
Then there were people that maybe weren't as touted but should have been (Brandon Wood).
There were those that were looked forward to and maybe weren't as good as the hype, but still good (Kenny Harris).
Then those who were hyped but really could have saved us all the drama (Tony Falu, Mo Kone--maybe Rob Harden, peoples?).
Who are the people whose Crusader debuts are those to which you have MOST looked forward?
(A preposition at the end of a sentence is something up with which I will not put)
I am not sure that your topic introduction was designed to exclude discussion of his effects on the team but if so then I'll take this opportunity to hijack it anyway and broaden the thread content.
Obviously we are not in as great a need of Carters help this year as we were in need of Doritys help last year. That is not a comment on the basketball skills of either of these players but a reflection of the 2012-13 team shortcomings. The surprising play of Lexus Williams now gives the coaching staff more time and flexibility towards finding Carters best use with the least team disruption. Since we have no immediate need of him trying to be the best player on the floor he should come off the bench unless he (over time) makes it obvious that such a move is holding back the entire team. As I have stated before just the addition of Carter as a backup player at the point and the 2 makes this a much, much better team and our upcoming results should reflect it. Above all lets remember that LaVonte was not an instant sensation and that Keith may require just as much patience.
Quote from: justducky on December 16, 2013, 03:59:42 PM
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on December 15, 2013, 08:09:01 PM
Well, the long wait is over, and Keith Carter is suiting up soon in the Sunshine State. (try saying that five point four times fast)
Certainly it's a highly anticipated debut, for a number of reasons:
--it's a midseason addition to a good team (usually a team debuts all together)
--he's a transfer from a good program
--and also, HE'S GOOD you guys.
Got me thinking--who are the people whose first game in the Brown and Gold you have anxiously looked forward to? And who paid off and then some? I think back to Bryce, obviously.
Then there were people that maybe weren't as touted but should have been (Brandon Wood).
There were those that were looked forward to and maybe weren't as good as the hype, but still good (Kenny Harris).
Then those who were hyped but really could have saved us all the drama (Tony Falu, Mo Kone--maybe Rob Harden, peoples?).
Who are the people whose Crusader debuts are those to which you have MOST looked forward?
(A preposition at the end of a sentence is something up with which I will not put)
I am not sure that your topic introduction was designed to exclude discussion of his effects on the team but if so then I'll take this opportunity to hijack it anyway and broaden the thread content.
Obviously we are not in as great a need of Carters help this year as we were in need of Doritys help last year. That is not a comment on the basketball skills of either of these players but a reflection of the 2012-13 team shortcomings. The surprising play of Lexus Williams now gives the coaching staff more time and flexibility towards finding Carters best use with the least team disruption. Since we have no immediate need of him trying to be the best player on the floor he should come off the bench unless he (over time) makes it obvious that such a move is holding back the entire team. As I have stated before just the addition of Carter as a backup player at the point and the 2 makes this a much, much better team and our upcoming results should reflect it. Above all lets remember that LaVonte was not an instant sensation and that Keith may require just as much patience.
While your praise of Lexus is noteworthy and well placed, I think we have seen several freshman mistakes of late from him. Mistakes at the point are critical. Carter will be much more than a backup and it will be much better having a guy like Lexus coming off the bench. Remember that in the last game Lexus' status was in doubt and lacking a true point backup had to add Clay to the mix. It didn't go well. In the last two games Lexus has scored 3 points with 3 assts and 4 tos.
Finally, remember that Keith Carter was runner up to Mr. Basketball while Lexus was all conference. Carter is much more of a scorer so will add another dimension.
I was eager to see Anthony Allison play when they announced him. If I remember he was highly ranked in juco. He's in my Valpo top 5. (Drew, Barton, Broekhoff, Grafs, Allison)
I think Falu lived up to the hype on the court but the gym wasn't big enough for his head.
Kone had to be the biggest hyped player. I also feel Kone was really really good but Homer didn't know how to use him and incorporate his game into Valpo's style correctly.
Now that I think about it, I never looked forward to anyone playing more than David Redmon and Casey Schmidt.
Why? Because the team was bad until they got there.
They were on campus for one year before they were eligible to play.
They were from Valpo High School.
They gave Tracy Gipson a chance to play with some good players.
And to be honest, I'm not sure we'd even be having this discussion if Dave and Casey had NOT transferred to VU. Because the program may have continued on its downward death spiral. Bryce may have gone to Notre Dame. Homer may have been fired. Who knows.
good point 89. Valpo had local players before but not like them. They sparked the interest with fans attending and got the ball rolling with being competitive. If they never made it to Valpo there's so many what ifs...
Let's hope the team chemistry continues to grow and is not disrupted.
Quote from: vu72 on December 16, 2013, 04:48:21 PM
Quote from: justducky on December 16, 2013, 03:59:42 PM
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on December 15, 2013, 08:09:01 PM
Well, the long wait is over, and Keith Carter is suiting up soon in the Sunshine State. (try saying that five point four times fast)
Certainly it's a highly anticipated debut, for a number of reasons:
--it's a midseason addition to a good team (usually a team debuts all together)
--he's a transfer from a good program
--and also, HE'S GOOD you guys.
Got me thinking--who are the people whose first game in the Brown and Gold you have anxiously looked forward to? And who paid off and then some? I think back to Bryce, obviously.
Then there were people that maybe weren't as touted but should have been (Brandon Wood).
There were those that were looked forward to and maybe weren't as good as the hype, but still good (Kenny Harris).
Then those who were hyped but really could have saved us all the drama (Tony Falu, Mo Kone--maybe Rob Harden, peoples?).
Who are the people whose Crusader debuts are those to which you have MOST looked forward?
(A preposition at the end of a sentence is something up with which I will not put)
I am not sure that your topic introduction was designed to exclude discussion of his effects on the team but if so then I'll take this opportunity to hijack it anyway and broaden the thread content.
Obviously we are not in as great a need of Carters help this year as we were in need of Doritys help last year. That is not a comment on the basketball skills of either of these players but a reflection of the 2012-13 team shortcomings. The surprising play of Lexus Williams now gives the coaching staff more time and flexibility towards finding Carters best use with the least team disruption. Since we have no immediate need of him trying to be the best player on the floor he should come off the bench unless he (over time) makes it obvious that such a move is holding back the entire team. As I have stated before just the addition of Carter as a backup player at the point and the 2 makes this a much, much better team and our upcoming results should reflect it. Above all lets remember that LaVonte was not an instant sensation and that Keith may require just as much patience.
While your praise of Lexus is noteworthy and well placed, I think we have seen several freshman mistakes of late from him. Mistakes at the point are critical. Carter will be much more than a backup and it will be much better having a guy like Lexus coming off the bench. Remember that in the last game Lexus' status was in doubt and lacking a true point backup had to add Clay to the mix. It didn't go well. In the last two games Lexus has scored 3 points with 3 assts and 4 tos.
Finally, remember that Keith Carter was runner up to Mr. Basketball while Lexus was all conference. Carter is much more of a scorer so will add another dimension.
Keith Carter is gonna start every game that he's in a Valpo uniform. Being runner up Mr. Basketball in the great state of Illinois is nothing to laugh at. Personally I think it's good for a PG to sit a bit and watch. They're the quarterback of the offense as well as the middle line backer on defense. We saw how important Buggs was to the team last year. In games he fouled out, (home vs Detroit) we were lost both offensively and defensively and subsequently squandered a rather comfortable lead.
Chances are with KC we win both the SLU game as well as the Ohio game and possibly the Illinois or Mercer game. Nothing against Lexus but he still has some learning to do, we saw that when they played SLU. If KC really is as good as they say we're gonna be great and we can't afford to have him not play 30 minutes a game. Lexus still has some learning to do, he has a lot of potential and will be a good player but a PG typically needs experience and KC has been with the team a year now, while Lexus has only been here a few months. KC came here because he wants to start not be a backup.
Let's not jinx Carter with any Falu references... :)
I'm going to keep my expectations down about Keith. You guys got me all excited about Ben Boggs a couple of years ago after he transferred from Virginia Tech and was eligible after the first semester. Not to say he wasn't a nice addition to the team, but he never played up to my expectations that I had of him.
If your expectations are down for Carter, then trust me, he'll play well beyond your expectations. He's a very special talent.
Quote from: chef on December 16, 2013, 08:15:19 PM
If your expectations are down for Carter, then trust me, he'll play well beyond your expectations. He's a very special talent.
Post of the day right here!
Quote from: chef on December 16, 2013, 08:15:19 PMIf your expectations are down for Carter, then trust me, he'll play well beyond your expectations.
My expectations have been and still are very high and I thank you for your reassurance. I have been very careful however not to expect him to walk on water what with the rising temperatures starting to thaw area ice by weeks end.
Just for a reality check I want to remind everybody that at this point Lexus has played a lot more college basketball (game situations) than Keith and that Keith may well add to better team success by playing his allocated minutes in a reserve role. Personally I think we are very likely to sweep the next 4 games no matter who starts but if we come out the gate cold in any of them Carter could be a big, very big momentum changer coming off the bench.
Whatever the choice I will understand and trust Bryces judgment because I am not certain that there is a wrong answer.
Quote from: chef on December 16, 2013, 08:15:19 PM
If your expectations are down for Carter, then trust me, he'll play well beyond your expectations. He's a very special talent.
It's been awhile since I've seen this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0QhWUd7Tv0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0QhWUd7Tv0)
Watched some KC high school games and all I can say is that our bigs need to be ready to catch the ball because there is going to be a lot of driving and dishing going on.
Quote from: FWalum on December 17, 2013, 10:11:07 AMWatched some KC high school games and all I can say is that our bigs need to be ready to catch the ball because there is going to be a lot of driving and dishing going on.
This will be the ideal way to get offensive production out of Moussa and Vashil and I predict that we will see them fouling out less frequently when the opponent is racking up fouls as least as quickly they are. (I don't know if defense-only big men ever work out that well, but when they are the floater in a mostly-zone defense, expecting them to not foul out based on pure technique seems wishful.)
Quote from: FWalum on December 17, 2013, 10:11:07 AMour bigs need to be ready to catch the ball
yikes. sometimes they don't even catch it when they know it's coming.
The biggest overhyped player in Valpo hoops history beyond any doubt had to be Rob Harden in 1983-84. They were bringing him in as the savior of the program where "next year is here." He had a great shot, but was slow and could not play defense. Also, his personality was such that he would have been kicked out of a Dale Carnegie course.
I never understood how the Valparaiso community supported him. It was embarrassing.
Quote from: usc4valpo on December 18, 2013, 08:32:28 AM
The biggest overhyped player in Valpo hoops history beyond any doubt had to be Rob Harden in 1983-84. They were bringing him in as the savior of the program where "next year is here." He had a great shot, but was slow and could not play defense. Also, his personality was such that he would have been kicked out of a Dale Carnegie course.
I never understood how the Valparaiso community supported him. It was embarrassing.
lol :lol:
Quote from: Valpo89 on December 16, 2013, 05:43:31 PM
Now that I think about it, I never looked forward to anyone playing more than David Redmon and Casey Schmidt.
Why? Because the team was bad until they got there.
They were on campus for one year before they were eligible to play.
They were from Valpo High School.
They gave Tracy Gipson a chance to play with some good players.
And to be honest, I'm not sure we'd even be having this discussion if Dave and Casey had NOT transferred to VU. Because the program may have continued on its downward death spiral. Bryce may have gone to Notre Dame. Homer may have been fired. Who knows.
Nice post. If we go from 1990 forward, IMO having those two guys transfer in and the Mid-Con regaining its automatic bid after the conference nearly collapsed are probably the two most important reasons why VU is where it is today from a basketball standpoint.
Quote from: usc4valpo on December 18, 2013, 08:32:28 AMI never understood how the Valparaiso community supported him. It was embarrassing.
Obviously because he was a huge star at VHS, that's why (though his younger brother Roger might have been even bigger).
I still remember a Sports Center Top 10 quality play I saw in person at Viking Gym when Roger flung a 3/4er court behind the back pass to Jeff Furlin who hit the center under the hoop for an easy layup that brought the house down. For all I know it was Rob instead (memory is hazy), but both Harden's owned the town and almost took VHS to the Final Four one of those years.
Quote from: StlVUFan on December 18, 2013, 07:23:28 PM
Quote from: usc4valpo on December 18, 2013, 08:32:28 AMI never understood how the Valparaiso community supported him. It was embarrassing.
Obviously because he was a huge star at VHS, that's why (though his younger brother Roger might have been even bigger).
I still remember a Sports Center Top 10 quality play I saw in person at Viking Gym when Roger flung a 3/4er court behind the back pass to Jeff Furlin who hit the center under the hoop for an easy layup that brought the house down. For all I know it was Rob instead (memory is hazy), but both Harden's owned the town and almost took VHS to the Final Four one of those years.
That's a trip down memory lane. I saw all VHS's regional and semi-state games while Rob was there. They made it to the semi-state twice, but never past the afternoon game. The '79-'80 team with both Hardens and Furlin was probably the best team they had ... lost to John Flowers' (IU/UNLV) FW South team in 3 OTs. One of the best high school games I've ever seen.
I'm still amazed that Roger H. was Mr. Basketball in '82. He averaged 26.5 for a 13-13 VHS team, while 40 miles away, Scott Skiles averaged 29 for a team that lost only once and won the state championship. If I recall, in those days the Mr. Basketball ballots were due before the state tournament. That has since changed, probably in part due to what happened in '82.
When I first started voting (the 80's), your vote had to be in after the regionals. Then Woody Austin went 6 for 30 at Hinkle in the semi-state. A week later Shawn Kemp showed at the final four that he was likely the best high school player in the country. When Austin was named Mr. Basketball it was pretty much an embarrassment. Thus the vote deadline was changed for the following year. Many believe that Glen Robinson would have lost out to Alan Henderson under the old system. However, when Robinson outplayed Henderson in the state championship game, that sealed the deal. Likewise, Bryce's performance at the 94 final four sealed the award for him.
As a 1984 graduate and going to school in Hoosier Hysteria, I learned high school basketball was a religious experience. The Rob Harden experience must have been the low point of the Tom Smith coaching tenure. They hyped up this team based on the return of a slow 5'10" guard had an non-engaging personality and did not attend class. That team started out well but defeated a bunch of ham and egger teams - including a Bradley team that had 8 players on their roster. They beat Lewis by 2 and DePauw by 1. Then came the infamous Eastern Kentucky game, where a 2-8 team beat Valpo and the joyousness of Harden's personality came out.
From that, Mr. Harden decided he would not play nice in the Valpo sandbox, and left for Reno. What disturbed me at the end of this fiasco was an article in the Torch blaming the students and the fans for putting so much pressure on Harden to succeed and the tough challenges playing in the AMCU8. My reaction was similar to Ditka's "Who're your crapping?"
Quote from: Valpower on December 17, 2013, 03:20:37 PM
Quote from: FWalum on December 17, 2013, 10:11:07 AMWatched some KC high school games and all I can say is that our bigs need to be ready to catch the ball because there is going to be a lot of driving and dishing going on.
This will be the ideal way to get offensive production out of Moussa and Vashil and I predict that we will see them fouling out less frequently when the opponent is racking up fouls as least as quickly they are. (I don't know if defense-only big men ever work out that well, but when they are the floater in a mostly-zone defense, expecting them to not foul out based on pure technique seems wishful.)
As much as I am looking forward to his attacks on the basket my defensive anticipation is even greater. I keep dreaming of the type of pressure that he and Lexus in tandem could apply when working the top of the zone together. Keep in mind that our goalie defense has the advantage of allowing us some calculated overplay and anticipation that even when not resulting in turnovers may greatly limit their open looks.
Just like the Bear teams of old sometimes the best offense is a good defense.
Quote from: zvillehaze on December 18, 2013, 08:29:27 PMlost to John Flowers' (IU/UNLV) FW South team in 3 OTs. One of the best high school games I've ever seen.
I had to settle for reading about that game (I was at Rose-Hulman at the time). The one thing I remember was Jeff Furlin missed a baseline jumper in one of the OTs that likely would have won the game. "Just missed," he said, wistfully. That's the quote I remember.
You talk about your great VHS sports families, the Furlins have to be at the top of almost any list. Almost two solid decades of giving us great players.
I remember being at a game in 1995 and Dave (the baby, then a senior) had clearly had a great game; when John Knauff read off that he had poured in 40 I was dumbfounded. One of those moments you remember right where you were when "lightning strikes".
Plus Bunny is an absolute saint. My First Communion teacher besides.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on December 19, 2013, 09:15:18 PM
You talk about your great VHS sports families, the Furlins have to be at the top of almost any list. Almost two solid decades of giving us great players.
I remember being at a game in 1995 and Dave (the baby, then a senior) had clearly had a great game; when John Knauff read off that he had poured in 40 I was dumbfounded. One of those moments you remember right where you were when "lightning strikes".
Plus Bunny is an absolute saint. My First Communion teacher besides.
I don't know the whole family, but got to know Jeff well. Played against him in HS, college and for 15+ years after college in leagues around Indy. After that, we watched our sons compete against each other. The last time I talked to him was at a volleyball game our daughters were playing in. Definitely a great guy.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on December 19, 2013, 09:15:18 PM
You talk about your great VHS sports families, the Furlins have to be at the top of almost any list. Almost two solid decades of giving us great players.
I remember being at a game in 1995 and Dave (the baby, then a senior) had clearly had a great game; when John Knauff read off that he had poured in 40 I was dumbfounded. One of those moments you remember right where you were when "lightning strikes".
Plus Bunny is an absolute saint. My First Communion teacher besides.
Hmnnnn. So unless Bunny is a guy, wouldn't it be against the church's teaching to receive instruction in the faith from a female?? :o :o :o I'm of course givng you the business! ;)
LETICIA FURLIN IS A SAINT! YOU HEAR ME? A SAINT!
(http://8.media.bustedtees.cvcdn.com/b/-/bustedtees.5145222b-4295-4431-ab10-76bc53c7.gif)
Jeff and Ray McCallum were teammates and good friends. Dave and Bryce Drew were teammates and good friends. I don't know a thing about the church, so I second the Bunny is a Saint comment.
Dorothy Mantooth is a saint and she brought pole dancing at nightclubs in San Diego. I learned that from seeing Anchorman 2 yesterday. Lots of laughs.
I was excited when Larry Doby transferred from Bradley to Valpo, but for some reason he never fit in. He was awesome at Westinghouse HS in Chicago, and DePaul and other schools were recruiting him. He had some decent moments, but I think he was in Tom Smith's doghouse. I never heard what happened to him. He was a very quiet dude.
I am looking forward to seeing what Keith Carter can do. Wow, Valpo's team is showing potential for years to come!! Exciting times ahead.
USC -- I think you meant Larry Roby.... Larry Doby played for the Cleveland Indians and was the first African-American baseball player in the American League.
Wasn't Bryce the most anticipated player? I was also eager to see Barton play and he did not disappoint in that opening weekend. Would have liked for us to have played IU in a "championship game" for that weekend. And that Western game in 95 Mid-Con Championship was incredible. That team deserved a post-game trip. Agree that Schmidt/Redmon transfers may have been the most influential recruits. The frosh class 94-95 season with Bryce and the Jenkins was also very influential. I also think the Lubos frosh class was also very important with Jason Jenkins/Jared Nuness the year before being very important because it meant that the roll would continue. The frosh class that Scott had was probably the most disappointing on many levels.
Quote from: valpo84 on December 20, 2013, 12:33:49 PMWasn't Bryce the most anticipated player?
Probably true.
True story: he had his college announcement in the choir room at VHS. Karl Berner and I snuck into the rehearsal room which adjoined both the choir room and band room so that we could eavesdrop. Knowing what we now know I am so glad Bryce had nothing to do with Digger Phelps. When the announcement came Karl and I were giddy and were jumping up and down, high-fiving, and just generally causing a ruckus.
I wonder if any of that made it into the choir room. I think we were jubilant with impunity, since we figured the rehearsal rooms were pretty well sound-proofed.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I think John MacLoad was the coach at ND at that time, not Digger.
BTW, every time I see Digger Phelps coaching highlights, it always reminds me of the great wrestling manager Booby "The Brain" Heenan.
Hey at least I did not say Reggie Roby - the great NFL punter. Sorry 84.
Phelps was apparently head coach at Notre Dame from 1977 to 1991. So, he should be the coach in question.
If you watch the video highlights pgmado posted, you can see the coaches (Homer and Digger) "handshake" at the end of the game... OH, I'm the guy in the middle of the background of that handshake.... I was a lot younger back then.
Quote from: usc4valpo on December 20, 2013, 10:54:46 AM
Dorothy Mantooth is a saint and she brought pole dancing at nightclubs in San Diego. I learned that from seeing Anchorman 2 yesterday. Lots of laughs.
I was excited when Larry Doby transferred from Bradley to Valpo, but for some reason he never fit in. He was awesome at Westinghouse HS in Chicago, and DePaul and other schools were recruiting him. He had some decent moments, but I think he was in Tom Smith's doghouse. I never heard what happened to him. He was a very quiet dude.
I am looking forward to seeing what Keith Carter can do. Wow, Valpo's team is showing potential for years to come!! Exciting times ahead.
Larry Roby actually came to us from Wabash Valley JC after one unsuccessful year at Bradley. He was effective for us averaged 10 points, 13 in the AMCU-8. He also was a black hole. He had 6 assists in almost 600 minutes. He was here for one year.
A lot of people thought Bryce might go to Notre Dame. MacLeod was the coach when Bryce was recruited (93-94). He came to see Bryce play in a game at Michigan City Rogers. Without question it was the poorest basketball game Bryce ever played. Truth is there was never any chance he was going to Notre Dame. They were still a semi-regular team on the Valpo schedule. The Crusaders had blown them right out of the Joyce Center the previous season. Bryce had no interest playing against his dad. MacLeod's trip to Michigan City was a waste of time, and in a bit of irony Bryce's poor performance was a way of saying "stop bothering me" ;D
Quote from: chef on December 20, 2013, 10:21:21 PMMacLeod was the coach when Bryce was recruited
You're so totally right, thanks. I remember that now.
There was talk of Syracuse...But Jim Boeheim grew up with my dad so that might have been window dressing?
Correct me if I am wrong, didn't Bryce also look at Stanford? For him to reject one of the best academic schools in America certainly shows his commitment to his family and Valpo.
Bryce took official visits to Stanford and Syracuse.