Well, I'm going to start this one, because good things happened the only other time I started a game thread.
Anton Grady did not play vs. WSU, but did this week at UIC. Only logged 16 minutes because of fouling out, but their backup forward-type went off.
74 team points, 64 from 4 players and 10 from all else. http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400506635 (http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400506635)
Why does it seem we're the only balanced team in the conference?
Who'd have thought my 6-2 January would still be on the table at this point?
Does asking a lot of questions help promote conversation on posts?
no
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on January 23, 2014, 08:50:09 PM
Well, I'm going to start this one, because good things happened the only other time I started a game thread.
Well if we lose, I'm blaming you. I started the last one and we won @ YSU for the first time ever.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on January 23, 2014, 08:50:09 PMWell, I'm going to start this one, because good things happened the only other time I started a game thread. Anton Grady did not play vs. WSU, but did this week at UIC. Only logged 16 minutes because of fouling out, but their backup forward-type went off. 74 team points, 64 from 4 players and 10 from all else. http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400506635 (http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400506635) Why does it seem we're the only balanced team in the conference? Who'd have thought my 6-2 January would still be on the table at this point? Does asking a lot of questions help promote conversation on posts?
I don't know, does it?
Does doing just enough to win justify a 5-3 or 6-2 January?
If you had started all the game threads would it have made a difference in Valpo's January record?
Will Anton Grady make a big enough difference when he plays to push Cleveland State over Valpo?
Is it better to have balanced scoring or have over 80% of your scoring come from 4 players?
Did I ask more questions than you and does that stifle conversation on posts?
One year ago, after losing to YSU by 12, our RPI fell to 92, and we were MidMajor #10.
Looking for any milestones that might be on the ... horizon... not much.
VU Lifetime Total Points: 152,978
Vu Opponents Lifetime: 150,917
Total Lifetime Games Played: 2,413... 1,255 Wins and 1,125 Losses
We are now 67-45 in the HL regular season
We are now 10-9 on the road in regular season Ohio Games. (We have never won or lost all three in one HL season)
Bryce picked up win #60 (with 29 losses)
The game at Cleveland on Saturday will be the 22nd game of the year....
#22 2012-13: we lost at YSU, 80-68 to have our record fall to 16-6
#22 2011-12: we lost at GB, 75-60 to have our record fall to 14-8
#22 2010-11: we Beat BUTLER 85-79 (OT) to have our record improve to 16-6
#22 2009-10: we lost at Milw 85-82 to fall to 10-12
#22 2008-09: we lost at Butler 59-51 to fall to 6-16
#22 2007-08: we lost to Butler 71-68 to fall to 14-8
You have to go back to 2002-03 when we beat Chicago State 81-70 for the last time we won #22 on the road.... we are 14-13 over the past 27 years in the 22nd game of the year.
Quote from: talksalot on January 23, 2014, 09:45:15 PMVu Opponents Lifetime: 150,917
Was Valpo supposed to have a moment of silence at the ARC when one of our opponents scored the 150,000 point against us? ::)
Valpo wins by 7 if the refs call it by the new rules, Valpo losses by 7 if the refs let CSU play the way they want.
Quote from: HC on January 23, 2014, 10:37:47 PM
Valpo wins by 7 if the refs call it by the new rules, Valpo losses by 7 if the refs let CSU play the way they want.
If they do a mixture of both... OH MAN EXCITEMENT
Another tough one to pick. I'd love to say we keep the momentum going, but I think the refs will let CSU play their grab defense in this one:
CSU 75
Valpo 65
Quote from: historyman on January 23, 2014, 09:43:12 PMI don't know, does it?
Does doing just enough to win justify a 5-3 or 6-2 January?
If you had started all the game threads would it have made a difference in Valpo's January record?
Will Anton Grady make a big enough difference when he plays to push Cleveland State over Valpo?
Is it better to have balanced scoring or have over 80% of your scoring come from 4 players?
Did I ask more questions than you and does that stifle conversation on posts?
Yes, yes, no, no, the former, yes
Honestly don't know what to expect. I would imagine Bryce has them prepared for a very physical game and it won't be easy. I however do think we will pull out a win.
Dority leads the way with 22 points
Us 72
Them 66
The two top 3 point % teams going at it in this one. CSU made 10 of 15 to beat UIC by 10. Interesting that Barlow came off the bench and only scored but played 28 minutes. Perhaps he was hurt and wasn't at full strength. We will out rebound them (shocking prediction I know!) so if we can slow down Forbes we probably can win this one. Wouldn't hurt if Mr. Peters could make a few 3's (Alec, not his dad)!!
Quote from: classof2014 on January 24, 2014, 03:46:34 PMHonestly don't know what to expect. I would imagine Bryce has them prepared for a very physical game and it won't be easy. I however do think we will pull out a win.
Just once, I'd like to see us go into that place and come out of their WITHOUT A MAJOR INJURY. >:(
Injuries will depend on how much tripping, kneeing and body checking they get away with. Of course they also injure themselves along the way (same for WSU) for whatever that's worth. It's all on the coach. A chicken shxt way of coaching - abusing players on both sides in an effort to make up for an inability to compete playing straight up.
Quote from: historyman on January 23, 2014, 10:00:56 PMVu Opponents Lifetime: 150,917
Was Valpo supposed to have a moment of silence at the ARC when one of our opponents scored the 150,000 point against us? ::)
It was the 48th point scored by Mercer...I don't have the running box score...
I gather there are quite a few Valpo fans heading to Wolstein for the game... weather channel: Windy. Snow during the morning will give way to snow showers during the afternoon. High 21F. Winds WSW at 20 to 30 mph. Chance of snow 80%. Snow accumulating 2 to 4 inches. So if the Viking fans are looking for an excuse not to go out, that may be it... they drew 1700 against Oakland and 2000 against Wright State. Tickets are still available, that place seats over 13,000.
Quote from: talksalot on January 24, 2014, 08:58:50 PM
Quote from: historyman on January 23, 2014, 10:00:56 PMVu Opponents Lifetime: 150,917
Was Valpo supposed to have a moment of silence at the ARC when one of our opponents scored the 150,000 point against us? ::)
It was the 48th point scored by Mercer...I don't have the running box score...
DID SOMEBODY PAGE ME???
Second half:
13:12 Daniel Coursey made Jumper. Assisted by Langston Hall. 49-56
(how did we lose a 12 point halftime lead at home, again? ARRGH)
Point spread is Valpo +7. Sounds a little high, given our 2 recent road wins and 3-game winning streak. Plus, CSU's 4 conference wins are against teams with a combined 7-19 conf. record. In their favor, they have more experienced players (does anyone have less) and are playing in the friendly confines of their empty barn. That, and our young guys are going to have to handle their physical (borderline dirty) defensive pressure better than they did WSU's.
Update: The line has moved to Valpo +5.5. Sounds more reasonable.
Safe travels and welcome for you folks coming from Valpo. A good choice for lunch or a get-together before the game is B2B (Burgers 2 Beer) at 1938 Euclid Ave, about a block from the Wolstein Center. They have a great back room with big-screen tvs, and very good food and beer selection. They're developing a good relationship with our fans and Athletic Department, so it might be worth a word with their manager about a deal if a group of you show up. Either way let's hope for a good game. I was really glad when you joined the league and watching your team last year was a pleasure. The intelligence they showed was fantastic; like the Butler teams that used to play here. But I owe you one. Before your first visit here I told everyone in my section how cool Homer Drew was - from watching him on tv I noticed he was always laughing and relaxed, a great contrast to the usual screamers. So of course his first game here he gets two Ts and ejected. In his postgame press conference he was laughing again and said it was the first time in his career he got run. Looks like he left a great legacy in more than one way.
Is everyone healthy for this game? Here is a game where I would like to see the refs call it tight. However sometimes when they call fouls on CSU in the first half they feel like they need to even out the fouls in the second.
Want to share that today is going to be awesome - 1pm Valpo (internet: D1), 3pm UW Parkside (live home game: D2), and 7pm Carthage College (live home game: D3). Wish the order was building up instead of down but it will be a great day of bball. One more note - today Carthage is playing Illinois Wesleyan which is the team Rossi was going to play at so I was really looking forward to it - too bad no Rossi. (Only true basketball fans would understand)
As of now (and about the time we're leaving for the alumni reception, game is still on per CsU. We've had some good snow today. My son in Cleveland said about 6" overnight. http://csuvikings.com/sports/m-baskbl/2013-14/releases/20140125zexpa4 (http://csuvikings.com/sports/m-baskbl/2013-14/releases/20140125zexpa4)
Based on the inconsistent reffing we've seen so far and the mysteries that await at the Wolstein Center, here's a good article on how people have been seeing this issue and impact for March
http://tablet.sportingnews.com/2014-01-25/sn-grading-new-rules.html (http://tablet.sportingnews.com/2014-01-25/sn-grading-new-rules.html)
Yeh, Well... since January 1 there has been a huge increase in the offensive foul call vs. the block compared to what it was like in November. It's almost as if they are making up for lost time!
Quote from: CSU Fan on January 25, 2014, 08:10:25 AMLooks like he left a great legacy in more than one way.
amen and thanks for a great post.
This article confirms what most of us suspected that officials have backed off calling all the illegal defensive contact. I have especially noticed the difference on the perimeter. In the WSU game their defenders pushed and body blocked our players while fighting their way through perimeter picks. It's all about disrupting offensive flow and wearing the opponent down physically. Add to that the intentional tripping by their guards when they were beaten off the dribble (only 2 of which were called) and it becomes the source of a lot of frustration with officiating.
Will it be man or will it be zone? As good as the man has looked in recent games I have to wonder if CSU can cut it apart. On the other hand there were a few YSU posessions where our zone coverage was pretty good.
For the most part I would call this years team as quick or maybe quicker than last years version. So why has the zone given up so many easy looks? Is there enough complexity to the ameoba to explain the falloff in results (because of all the freshmen and newcomers)? Has something new been introduced? I thought I spotted some irregularity in some of the coverages against YSU?
Man vs. Zone... Hopefully one of them will work. CSU will hit their open looks from 3, where as YSU missed a lot of the open ones we gave them. If we can contest their 3 point shots, I think we will win. If we allow open looks, we lose. Pretty simple.
Up 10-5 at the first media break. How long has it been since we started off this well?
Quote from: wh on January 25, 2014, 12:09:01 PM
This article confirms what most of us suspected that officials have backed off calling all the illegal defensive contact. I have especially noticed the difference on the perimeter. In the WSU game their defenders pushed and body blocked our players while fighting their way through perimeter picks. It's all about disrupting offensive flow and wearing the opponent down physically. Add to that the intentional tripping by their guards when they were beaten off the dribble (only 2 of which were called) and it becomes the source of a lot of frustration with officiating.
While games were borderline unwatchable at the beginning of the year, I feel that most teams adapted and the games were no longer decided on toss up 50/50 charging or blocking calls. They've completely abandoned this aspect and you'll see much more flops on defense... funny how defenders are able to draw charge calls from mintor contact after tripping, shoving, grabbing etc.
4 min 16 sec. since with no FG's. 2nd media TO. Down 15-11.
Why is LVD on the bench for an extended period after a hot start? Is he hurt?
Hand checks? They are allowed? 100% of the time our guards are dribbling with a CSU holding them.
LVD on the bench for extended minutes killed all momentum. CSU on a 20-3 run, most of which occurred with LaVonte out. How can you explain that? Now we'll have to play catch-up for who knows how long.
No offense. ... No defense. .. Not a great combination . feel apart when we did our first substitution
We are getting hammered inside
We're getting hammered inside, but it still frustrates me about LVD being on the bench for so long. I hope whatever lesson he was being taught was worth the price we paid for it.
11:36 without a field goal... that's... um...
Maybe I'm frustrated that we aren't playing well, but I'm tired of playing these commuter schools in front 100 fans.
Dority has a red hot start and sits on the bench for about 8 minutes in the first half? As soon as he came out we were lost. Unless he got hurt, he should have remained in there and it is probably a different game. Also 5 points were nullified because of fouls. Lucky to only be down 11. Not an impossible comeback.
On that Lexus and Coleman fast break... how did they not call anything? They intentionally tried fouling Coleman to stop the fast break, and then Lexus got contacted mid air.
The physical play just doesn't favor us. Our bigs are easily moved and our guards are too small. I would say Capo should play a bit more, but he seems completely incapable of guarding the perimeter.
Horrible match-up zone defense. We're really slow to the ball, compared to CSU, can't shoot consistently, and have almost no offense in the post. Our rebounding is also really poor despite our height advantage. These are lingering problems that continue to show up game after game.
This debacle can't be blamed on the freshmen. Freshmen are expected to be inconsistent, but the upperclassmen are just not consistently solid. They just don't seem to be able to step it up to another level when needed.
LaVonte must be hurt. It's the only thing that makes any sense.
It is bryce's job to work the refs. He has not seemed to be disappointed with a call yet.
Quote from: atkins on January 25, 2014, 01:51:57 PM
Horrible match-up zone defense. We're really slow to the ball, compared to CSU, can't shoot consistently, and have almost no offense in the post. Our rebounding is also really poor despite our height advantage. These are lingering problems that continue to show up game after game.
This debacle can't be blamed on the freshmen. Freshmen are expected to be inconsistent, but the upperclassmen are just not consistently solid. They just don't seem to be able to step it up to another level when needed.
100% accurate observations.
I think a lot of our misses are due to hands in the face and strong defense by CSU.
Actually .. We have them right where we want them. We are down 11 at the half - seems like we like being down at half.
This 2nd half = a lot of turnovers
Capo, Yeo, Chadwick, Coleman, Carter... oh god.
The way things are going, we will be lucky to make it to 50 points.
This game is over. Bryce's loss.
Let's hope UIC beats Oakland so that Oakland doesn't make any ground on us in the standings.
I hope the lessons Bryce was teaching by benching players pays dividends down the road, because it killed any chance of a 2nd half comeback. I still have no idea what the LaVonte thing is about.
Wh - got to agree. Not outscoring them by 20 in 10 minutes. We are on target for 40 points.
Is Bobby hurt this season? He's extremely slow and seems to be struggling physically. The pace of the game is way too fast for him.
There's a reason they leave Adekoya wide open from 3...
Almost every CSU player today is shooting a higher percentage than their season average.
Quote from: wh on January 25, 2014, 02:22:41 PM
Quote from: a3uge on January 25, 2014, 02:20:17 PM
Quote from: wh on January 25, 2014, 02:17:43 PM
Bryce's loss.
???
Are you not reading my posts, or just saying you don't agree?
It's a blowout. An extra 5 minutes of Dority wasn't going to do much. Just don't see how you can blame a blowout loss on a coach when everyone on the team is doing horrible.
One out of two on the road is not bad in Ohio, yet after 3 good games this hurts!!!
Great ball movement by CSU! Their passes a quick and crisp, they move well without the ball for better passing angles, and their bigs are always ready for an interior bounce pass. I am impressed with everything they have done on both sides of the ball. Not saying we can't beat them at home, but they are better than us.
I really think that GB, WSU, and CSU are all better than us this season. I also think that we are better than everybody else. hey, a 4th place finish in the league is not so bad. We are simply not very good at handling tough, physical defense and our defense is not very good at playing tough, physical defense.
Our game plan was not right ... We started strong and then could not find the adjustment.
Just saw at 1:40 the whole team was under the basket - flat foot (will be in the game tape review)
Awful execution all the way around...maybe the worst I've seen in 7 years of watching this team. I know this team has the talent to go on a monster run, but they just can't put it all together. Very Frustrating to watch. >:(
Quote from: a3uge on January 25, 2014, 02:31:16 PM
Quote from: wh on January 25, 2014, 02:22:41 PM
Quote from: a3uge on January 25, 2014, 02:20:17 PM
Quote from: wh on January 25, 2014, 02:17:43 PM
Bryce's loss.
???
Are you not reading my posts, or just saying you don't agree?
It's a blowout. An extra 5 minutes of Dority wasn't going to do much. Just don't see how you can blame a blowout loss on a coach when everyone on the team is doing horrible.
Wasn't a blow at the time the mistake was made.
Who was out of bounds on the play where Dority drove the baseline and then passed it to Peters? Was it Dority or Peters that was called out of bounds? I couldn't believe it if they called Peters out of bounds.
Everyone looks so raw still. Jubril can't buy a bucket around the rim and his shooting is pretty poor still (look at his free throw percentage). He still has a good Horizon League body and should be pretty effective in a couple years, but right now he's only helping the team on defense. I couldn't believe how many open looks around the basket he missed.
Vashil is raw and is always going to be raw.
Peters forgot how to shoot. He's still a good passer. I would imagine his shot will return at some point.
Carter shows the most promise out of anyone, but he was practically invisible today. Lexus was pretty ineffective too. Nobody can seem to run the P&R and our bigs can't catch or get position for a good look.
Clay Yeo showed some promise, but his body is way too small and thin.
I want to be optimistic about the future, but I think we're a couple years off before we can make a run in the conference tournament, or get a 1st round bye in the tourney. We're trying to run the same offense as last year and it's not working because we don't have a big man that can catch a lob pass and shoot a layup, and our backcourt hasn't been able to distribute the ball effectively. We have the shooters, and everyone plays good enough defense... but man our offense can just flat out suck at times.
Quote from: historyman on January 25, 2014, 02:45:40 PM
Who was out of bounds on the play where Dority drove the baseline and then passed it to Peters? Was it Dority or Peters that was called out of bounds? I couldn't believe it if they called Peters out of bounds.
Peters back foot must have been drug in from the sideline. We have been getting a lot of those calls lately and everybody who shoots 3s from the corners has been guilty. This is something that may require a little special attention in practice.
Quote from: justducky on January 25, 2014, 03:30:30 PMQuote from: historyman on January 25, 2014, 02:45:40 PMWho was out of bounds on the play where Dority drove the baseline and then passed it to Peters? Was it Dority or Peters that was called out of bounds? I couldn't believe it if they called Peters out of bounds.
Peters back foot must have been drug in from the sideline. We have been getting a lot of those calls lately and everybody who shoots 3s from the corners has been guilty. This is something that may require a little special attention in practice.
Then it was a terrible call because I was watching Peters specifically on that play and he made a full step to the ball that was passed by Dority before catching it. Just a terrible call. I thought maybe Dority had stepped out of bounds but it certainly wasn't Peters.
Our point guards might as well have been playing in handcuffs because they were completely held in check. The inside- outside game has no chance to work when you can not cut and drive the ball to the middle. Credit much of this problem to their defense.
Quote from: a3uge on January 25, 2014, 03:13:39 PMClay Yeo showed some promise, but his body is way too small and thin.
Anybody who hasn't concluded that this kid will be a big part of our future success isn't watching the same things that I am. He might step on to the floor next year and supply us with the same shock value that Lexus gave us this year. All of these freshmen have some gaps in their games but all of them could improve to great career, memorable player status.
Quote from: a3uge on January 25, 2014, 03:13:39 PMit's not working because we don't have a big man that can catch a lob pass and shoot a layup, and our backcourt hasn't been able to distribute the ball effectively. We have the shooters, and everyone plays good enough defense... but man our offense can just flat out suck at times.
The best thing we accomplished today was to get Green Bay properly set up for their trip to the ARC. For some reason I have an illogical optimism about how things will go on the 29'th.
Quote from: justducky on January 25, 2014, 04:16:21 PM
Our point guards might as well have been playing in handcuffs because they were completely held in check. The inside- outside game has no chance to work when you can not cut and drive the ball to the middle. Credit much of this problem to their defense.
Quote from: a3uge on January 25, 2014, 03:13:39 PMClay Yeo showed some promise, but his body is way too small and thin.
Anybody who hasn't concluded that this kid will be a big part of our future success isn't watching the same things that I am. He might step on to the floor next year and supply us with the same shock value that Lexus gave us this year. All of these freshmen have some gaps in their games but all of them could improve to great career, memorable player status. Quote from: a3uge on January 25, 2014, 03:13:39 PMit's not working because we don't have a big man that can catch a lob pass and shoot a layup, and our backcourt hasn't been able to distribute the ball effectively. We have the shooters, and everyone plays good enough defense... but man our offense can just flat out suck at times.
The best thing we accomplished today was to get Green Bay properly set up for their trip to the ARC. For some reason I have an illogical optimism about how things will go on the 29'th.
I'm just saying Clay needs to bulk up like Kenny did to be effective. These freshman all have promise, but it's going to take at least until they're juniors before we can contend to be back in the big dance.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Quote from: SanityLost17 on January 25, 2014, 02:38:25 PM
Great ball movement by CSU! Their passes a quick and crisp, they move well without the ball for better passing angles, and their bigs are always ready for an interior bounce pass. I am impressed with everything they have done on both sides of the ball. Not saying we can't beat them at home, but they are better than us.
I really think that GB, WSU, and CSU are all better than us this season. I also think that we are better than everybody else. hey, a 4th place finish in the league is not so bad. We are simply not very good at handling tough, physical defense and our defense is not very good at playing tough, physical defense.
Quote from: govalpogo on January 25, 2014, 02:44:43 PM
Awful execution all the way around...maybe the worst I've seen in 7 years of watching this team. I know this team has the talent to go on a monster run, but they just can't put it all together. Very Frustrating to watch. >:(
They were bad today but the play against Wright State was worse and, that game was at the ARC.
Quote from: justducky on January 25, 2014, 04:16:21 PM
The best thing we accomplished today was to get Green Bay properly set up for their trip to the ARC. For some reason I have an illogical optimism about how things will go on the 29'th.
With classes canceled Monday and Tuesday, there will be plenty of time to practice for Wednesday's game!
Our biggest issue on this team is that we have ZERO post presence. Moussa and Vashil are decent defensively but offensive abilities is what they lack. The best player around the rim for us is Jubril, and he just needs some more time and by the time he's a junior he'll be a force to reckon with.
It's really sad we have players at 7', 6' 11", 6' 10", 6' 9", and 6' 8" and we can't buckets down low. This is a different game if we could get buckets around the basket. If we can establish a post it will open up 3 pointers and other shots.
I really hope we have a JUCO in line for next year that will be our interior guy. I'm not asking for KVW skills but just someone who's at least average and can catch a freaking pass. If we don't get a post player, next season will be more of the same because Vashil isn't the answer offensively.
Quote from: classof2014 on January 25, 2014, 05:58:51 PMIt's really sad we have players at 7', 6' 11", 6' 10", 6' 9", and 6' 8" and we can't {get} buckets down low.
(http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/House-Sad-Head-Nod.gif)
We lost because CSU had the dark side force with them today.
Darth Viking
https://mobile.twitter.com/NEOhiosports/status/427173978461847552/photo/1?screen_name=NEOhiosports (https://mobile.twitter.com/NEOhiosports/status/427173978461847552/photo/1?screen_name=NEOhiosports)
CSU outplayed us today. They played Wed. We had a tough, emotional/physical game Thurs. CSU has a more developed team and Lewis, Grady and Mason are really decent players. We need to see the ball, catch the ball and shoot the ball better. Bryce is coaching his heart out with these guys. He needs a hug at this stage. Every possession in this game (and to a certain extent at YSU) was a struggle. BTW< Jubril is grading pretty high on this team right now. He is in the right positions, rebounding well both ends and driving well. We are missing the bunnies we made last year. We need to be stronger and more physical. But this is a very young team -- 3 frosh starting. Jubril helped win Thurs and LVD has been big lately (not sure what happened that he came out around 15 and not back til 5 mins 1st half? In fact, we started going where's LVD and he wasn't on the bench (he had gone to scorer's table). CSU is 2d best team right now and we will finish 1st half 4-4 or 5-3. Most predicted 5-3. That could be 10-6, which I think most of us would agree is pretty good for this year. Everyone relax and enjoy the ride, rollercoasters are fun!!
why??
With classes canceled Monday and Tuesday, there will be plenty of time to practice for Wednesday's game!
[/quote]
Temperatures are projected to be -9 to -20 with wind chills in the -30 to -45 range in the upper Midwest near the Great Lakes region for both Monday and Tuesday.
I don't see how anyone could say anything negative about Adekoya. Even after todays 0-7 effort, he still has the best shooting percentage on the team (62%).
In my opinion, bobby just isn't that good. He played better last year because he was surrounded by better players. He's slow and extremely unathletic . He turns the ball over and can't dribble or pass well. He's a 5th year senior, he's had time to develop.
Lexus is young and makes mistakes, but he has a very high ceiling. He's fast, can shoot, and pass. He just gets excited and nervous.
Sent from my NX008HD8G using Tapatalk
Quote from: a3uge on January 25, 2014, 02:12:18 PMCapo, Yeo, Chadwick, Coleman, Carter... oh god.
Any time you send 5 players to the scorers table simultaneously it is a demonstration of complete coaching frustration. I still have a very clear memory of watching a long dead local coach springing to his feet, pounding his head with both hands then running down the bench wildly waving the second 5 to get out of their warm up gear and get into the game. As the starters took the bench he didn't say a word but continued to stare down on them with hands on hips as the game continued. I think the message must have been received because they looked like a different team when they returned to play in the second half. That was a case where it turned that game and that tournament completely on a dime. As an aside one of the players waived from that bench was later recruited by Bartow.
Here's a good question... what was the point of bringing Chadwick to valpo?
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he's tall and wouldn't complain about not a lot of PT.
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/2674/valparaiso-crusaders (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/2674/valparaiso-crusaders)
Click on that link and you find we're in the top 15% of D1 for PPG. For rebounding. We're in the top 11% of FG% even after today's blahsaster. We're in the top FIVE percent for rebounds allowed.
And we're 12 and 10.
I'll repeat, because it bears it: This team is top-50 in shooting, rebounding, scoring.
And we're 12-10, hovering around the top-50 PERCENT of teams.
Why? Well, multiple reasons, owing a lot to ill-defined roles and a lack of consistency in lineups, not allowing for gelling, player confidence or comfort, etc.
But mostly, the turnovers. We're really really good at scoring IF WE DON'T FRICKIN GIVE THE BALL AWAY. (And maybe the lack of familiarity with one another lends itself to that?)
We're last in the conference. 312 outta 349 D1 teams in assist-to-turnover ratio. (And it's NOT because of low assists--we're #50 in the country in assist rate!!!)
http://www.bbstate.com/teams/VALP/statprofile (http://www.bbstate.com/teams/VALP/statprofile)
Click there for the sad truth: we are 338 in D1 in TO rate. 21.6%.
TWENTY ONE POINT SIX PERCENT. We give away more than one out of every five possessions.[/i]
And you know what's particularly galling? Other teams AREN'T RECIPROCATING. Our opponent TO rate is 335th in the country! (I didn't know this until I started writing this, and I feel like banging my head against the table, but it would wake the baby.)
The soul-sucking part of this is that these are not freshmen mistakes. This is a hallmark of a Bryce Drew team.
Last year's TO rate (with The World's Oldest Team) was 21.1%. 2012 was 21.7%.
I just...I don't know, man.
What this team needs is...Nathan Stegelmann....
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I agree that Yeo will be a big part of the future. He's quick and has long arms with a sweet shot. He certainly needs to bulk-up, but when he does, watch out! It was good to see Peters hit some 3s today. Hopefully, they'll work with him during the off-season on sliding over to help and also on staying with his man. He's a decent positional rebounder and a great passer. I see him as a slightly less-skilled and less-agile Ted Kitchel, who was one of my favorite IU players. Hopefully, he can develop into the sort of player that Kitchel was.
I love how after a loss nearly everyone picks a part and blows out of proportion every little thing, while after a win we are world beaters. Coach Drew goes from COY to a guy who can't do anything right nearly on a weekly basis here. This team is inexperience at playing with each other. The highs will be real high and the lows could be pretty low.
The turnovers we are giving away and the turnovers we aren't getting back is definitely the most concerning. When/if those numbers start getting better in both directions this team will play more consistent and not give us fans so many sore legs from jumping on and off the 2014 bandwagon.
Where did we rank in turnovers for Bryce's first two years? It would be interesting to see as I would think we have a trend going. Maybe I'm wrong but it seemed last years highly experienced team coughed it up a lot.
It appears that I picked a good game to miss, instead going to a baby care class with my wife from 1-4 :).
We have now laid an egg at home, as well as on the road in conference. With the way the season has gone, I am happy to be 4-3, with the chance to be 5-3 after our home game against GB. If we beat the top team, you never know what that can do for the second half of conference!
In regards to Chadwick, I wondered the same thing about why he transferred here. Rice is not a better program than Valpo in basketball, and he was getting 7.3 minutes/game in more games than he will play this year at Valpo. Maybe he saw that KVW was leaving, and we didn't really have any bigs lined up to take his place, and then Moussa came available, eating into any minutes available at the 5. I would have to think that if he sticks around for next season, he would at least play in each game, with the lack of size we will have (unless replaced through JuCo or FR).
Quote from: atkins on January 25, 2014, 08:35:13 PMIt was good to see Peters hit some 3s today. Hopefully, they'll work with him during the off-season on sliding over to help and also on staying with his man. He's a decent positional rebounder and a great passer. I see him as a slightly less-skilled and less-agile Ted Kitchel, who was one of my favorite IU players.
An interesting comparison that maybe someone with a better memory of Teds freshman year could speak to?
Quote from: atkins on January 25, 2014, 08:35:13 PMI agree that Yeo will be a big part of the future. He's quick and has long arms with a sweet shot. He certainly needs to bulk-up, but when he does, watch out!
I will agree with you and a3uge that he does need to get stronger and a bit bulkier but to what extent might lead to some debate. Coming in to the season I thought that his ball handling deficiencies would restrict his play almost totally to the 3 position and that he would not be ready to contribute as a 2 until his sophomore year. Although I still think his best chance will be as a 3 his recent play at the 2 has begun to make me question that judgement. Matt Kenny over the years grew and developed into a very good 3 somewhat at the expense of his potential for play as either a 2 or 1 (both of which he was given some brief looks). Maybe Cleos' future best use will require an intermediate weight suitable for both positions.
Quote from: valpotx on January 25, 2014, 10:40:50 PMgoing to a baby care class with my wife from 1-4 :).
We have now laid an egg at home
I think you need to retake the class...
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on January 26, 2014, 07:16:16 AM
Quote from: valpotx on January 25, 2014, 10:40:50 PMgoing to a baby care class with my wife from 1-4 :).
We have now laid an egg at home
I think you need to retake the class...
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
I believe one of the reason for the high turnovers (not just this year, but in Bryce's time at Valpo) is the frequent substitutions. I've never seen a team sub as many players or as many times as we do. I think this leads to the turnovers.
I agree with HC that we get on and off the bandwagon too quickly on this board. It does make it fun, but the guys could be reading it.
Most of the erratic play simply comes from so many first-time players not blending. Add a mid-year player in Carter and it gets tougher, I like Bryce mixing up the lineup and making them all earn their time. He's gunning for the 2nd half and a big February.
We had gotten used to very smart play from Ryan and Kevin and a bunch of seniors like Buggs and Kenney. They were limited athletically so I know I took the bait of seeing this new more athletic team come in and guessing they coulud match last year's success.
If we can finish in the top four we will still match up with any of the top group and have a shot at the NCAAs. GB, CSU, and WSU are tough defenders who bother our new batch of players. But all 3 are very beatable in February and March. No Butler in this group. Relax.
Quote from: Chairback on January 25, 2014, 10:21:09 PMWhere did we rank in turnovers for Bryce's first two years? It would be interesting to see as I would think we have a trend going. Maybe I'm wrong but it seemed last years highly experienced team coughed it up a lot.
I posted the rates above. Last year was lower but still above 21%. His first year was just as bad as this in raw data. But you're right, rank is helpful.
Paging a3uge to figure that out?
Quote from: atkins on January 25, 2014, 08:35:13 PMthey'll work with him during the off-season on sliding over to help and also on staying with his man.
How is he supposed to do both of these at the same time? Maybe explaining with a little more clarity would help us understand what you mean.
When your man and the ball are on the same side you stay with your man. Peters gets beat from time to time on back cuts in these situations. When the ball and your man are on opposite sides of the court then you have to be able to rotate and help or double team.
Quote from: crusadermoe on January 26, 2014, 09:02:40 AM
I agree with HC that we get on and off the bandwagon too quickly on this board. It does make it fun, but the guys could be reading it.
Most of the erratic play simply comes from so many first-time players not blending. Add a mid-year player in Carter and it gets tougher, I like Bryce mixing up the lineup and making them all earn their time. He's gunning for the 2nd half and a big February.
We had gotten used to very smart play from Ryan and Kevin and a bunch of seniors like Buggs and Kenney. They were limited athletically so I know I took the bait of seeing this new more athletic team come in and guessing they coulud match last year's success.
If we can finish in the top four we will still match up with any of the top group and have a shot at the NCAAs. GB, CSU, and WSU are tough defenders who bother our new batch of players. But all 3 are very beatable in February and March. No Butler in this group. Relax.
Phew!! We sure don't need a team we have beaten the last four times we've played ruining our title run!! ;)
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on January 26, 2014, 12:04:56 PM
Quote from: Chairback on January 25, 2014, 10:21:09 PMWhere did we rank in turnovers for Bryce's first two years? It would be interesting to see as I would think we have a trend going. Maybe I'm wrong but it seemed last years highly experienced team coughed it up a lot.
I posted the rates above. Last year was lower but still above 21%. His first year was just as bad as this in raw data. But you're right, rank is helpful.
Paging a3uge to figure that out?
We only force 8.0 Turnovers per game. That's horrible.
(Note 1st out of 9 means good in both cases, 9th/9 means bad... you get it)
Turnover Per Game
2013-14: commit 14.4 (8th/9 ) - force 8.0 (9th/9) * worst
2012-13: commit 12.8 (5th/9) - force 11.9 (5th/9)
2011-12: commit 13.7 (7th/10) - force 10.6 (10th/10) * worst
Assist to T/O
2013-14: 9th/9 (0.7)
2012-13: 2nd/9 (1.2)
2011-12: 2nd/10 (1.0)
So it may be a reoccurring theme... but FG % and 3pt % is also a reoccurring theme, which may kind of explain the offense. It could also speak to whom we recruit and play - we recruit good shooters like Peters, Dority, Yeo eventually, Kenny, Broekhoff, Boggs, Bogan, Rossi, ect, all of whom don't really seem like excellent ball handlers, but in comparison to the rest of the league, are really good long range shooters.
Edit: if you want to see other turnover stat mumbo jumbo: http://statsheet.com/mcb/conferences/horizon/team_stats?season=2013-2014 (http://statsheet.com/mcb/conferences/horizon/team_stats?season=2013-2014)
Quote from: historyman on January 26, 2014, 04:05:12 PMQuote from: atkins on January 25, 2014, 08:35:13 PMthey'll work with him during the off-season on sliding over to help and also on staying with his man.
How is he supposed to do both of these at the same time? Maybe explaining with a little more clarity would help us understand what you mean.
Thanks to HC for clearly explaining what I had meant to say. However, the notion of Peters being able to do both at the same time is an appealing thought. Might make him the best defensive player ever.
Quote from: a3uge on January 26, 2014, 09:29:09 PMWe only force 8.0 Turnovers per game. That's horrible.
I did say we were ranked 335th in that.
And we're 338th in TOs committed.
And 312th in AST to TO ratio.
I was wondering where our 21.1% ranked last year and our 21.7% the year before that. BBState doesn't list the rank for past years--at least, not that I could find--just our number, the national average, and the conf avg. I think?
Quote from: vu72 on January 26, 2014, 08:23:30 PMQuote from: crusadermoe on January 26, 2014, 09:02:40 AMI agree with HC that we get on and off the bandwagon too quickly on this board. It does make it fun, but the guys could be reading it. Most of the erratic play simply comes from so many first-time players not blending. Add a mid-year player in Carter and it gets tougher, I like Bryce mixing up the lineup and making them all earn their time. He's gunning for the 2nd half and a big February. We had gotten used to very smart play from Ryan and Kevin and a bunch of seniors like Buggs and Kenney. They were limited athletically so I know I took the bait of seeing this new more athletic team come in and guessing they coulud match last year's success. If we can finish in the top four we will still match up with any of the top group and have a shot at the NCAAs. GB, CSU, and WSU are tough defenders who bother our new batch of players. But all 3 are very beatable in February and March. No Butler in this group. Relax.
Phew!! We sure don't need a team we have beaten the last four times we've played ruining our title run!! ;)
Past results are not indicative of future performance. Just because 3 years ago before Butler left the HL with each team having a totally different group of players, Valpo beat Butler four times does not mean that Valpo would beat out Butler in a conference race. This board hangs it's hat far too often on old accomplishments. Seems to me that Butler has much greater accomplishments, such as two Final Fours, to hang it's hat on than Valpo ever has. It's time to stop sighting old accomplishments that compared to our old opponent, are no where near as great. I wonder how many on this board truly think that since Valpo beat Butler 4 times in their last 4 meetings that Butler would not be a challenge to Valpo in a conference race. It's just not anywhere near realistic.
No one is being serious that just because we have beaten them 4 times in a row, that we are now the better team. All of us just like to revel in the fact that from now until the end of time, we get to say that we have beaten them 4 times in a row (since they won't ever schedule us again) ;D
Quote from: valpotx on January 27, 2014, 01:20:00 PM
No one is being serious that just because we have beaten them 4 times in a row, that we are now the better team. All of us just like to revel in the fact that from now until the end of time, we get to say that we have beaten them 4 times in a row (since they won't ever schedule us again) ;D
It's just not that great of an accomplishment in my view and really not that amusing. Now Butler's accomplishments over Valpo are much better. Not even counting the Final Fours how many straight wins did Butler have over Valpo in recent times? It really is time to stop counting on a few victories over Butler. It makes this board seem small and petty and has gone on far too long. Butler has gone on and Valpo fans can't seem to do that.
Quote from: historyman on January 27, 2014, 02:17:43 PM
Quote from: valpotx on January 27, 2014, 01:20:00 PM
No one is being serious that just because we have beaten them 4 times in a row, that we are now the better team. All of us just like to revel in the fact that from now until the end of time, we get to say that we have beaten them 4 times in a row (since they won't ever schedule us again) ;D
It's just not that great of an accomplishment in my view and really not that amusing. Now Butler's accomplishments over Valpo are much better. Not even counting the Final Fours how many straight wins did Butler have over Valpo in recent times? It really is time to stop counting on a few victories over Butler. It makes this board seem small and petty and has gone on far too long. Butler has gone on and Valpo fans can't seem to do that.
Oh come on, lighten up. We like to take digs at Butler because of their fan's egotistical attitudes. Now that they are mired in last place with three road games ahead, some of us long time fans just get a chuckle at their struggles. As for how many straight they had over us, I'm not some sort of computer that brings up old data at will but we did beat them 7 of 8 back in the early 70's. ;D
Quote from: vu72 on January 27, 2014, 03:00:14 PM
I'm not some sort of computer that brings up old data at will
DID SOMEBODY SAY MY NAME?
10 straight losses before that, dating back to 1994 (12/1), with the last win being 12/4/93.
Before THAT three straight losses, dating back to 1990 (12/6). Homer split with them in his first year. His FIRST GAME he lost by 30 and then later in the season won by TWENTY. So that's IMMEDIATE improvement. (Also beat ND that year, remember?)
But before THAT the TOM SMITH ERA was GOLDEN with wins in 7 out of 15 games. Until Bryce, our most successful coach against 'em.
Remember to add "(SI)" when using sarcasm to remind people that we vibe Butler only because we like them and would like to see the rivalry continued.
For example,
1-7 in conference. Maybe they'd like to reduce that horrific travel schedule and come back to the Horizon to be the 10th member... (SI)
or maybe not (SI).
why "SI"? because we want to support Hispanic fans?
or because we want a video of One Shining Moment and a brown-and-gold parka FREE with our paid subscription?
(http://i41.tinypic.com/t9cvfc.jpg)
"Lavonte has been sensational for us during this three-game winning streak," Drew said. "He started off the game great, but then had two or three guys around him at all times. What we needed was some other guys who could score for us. When we couldn't get that going, they kept putting multiple guys on Lavonte. We need to get back where we have other players stepping up for us."
Do these comments make any sense to anybody? LVD scores 8 points in the first five minutes. He was on fire! Then Bryce takes him out for some unknown reason and he sits for more than half the rest of the game (18 of 35 minutes). It almost sounds like Bryce is saying he took LVD out because CSU put a bunch of guys on him and rendered him ineffective, which of course makes no sense.
In 6 conference games leading up to Sat., LVD played 36, 37, 32, 31, 35, and 34 minutes. He is clearly the MVP of the team. He is a co-captain and reportedly the hardest working player on the team. He would be the last player I would expect Bryce to feel a need to sit because he won't listen or has some kind of attitude problem. There wasn't mention anywhere about his back bothering him, or anything else physical. Last, but not least, there is no way we were going to beat CSU without LVD on the court and having a big game, and yet he was only on the court half the time. Nothing about any of this makes any sense to me.
Quote from: wh on January 27, 2014, 06:57:10 PM
"Lavonte has been sensational for us during this three-game winning streak," Drew said. "He started off the game great, but then had two or three guys around him at all times. What we needed was some other guys who could score for us. When we couldn't get that going, they kept putting multiple guys on Lavonte. We need to get back where we have other players stepping up for us."
Do these comments make any sense to anybody? LVD scores 8 points in the first five minutes. He was on fire! Then Bryce takes him out for some unknown reason and he sits for more than half the rest of the game (18 of 35 minutes). It almost sounds like Bryce is saying he took LVD out because CSU put a bunch of guys on him and rendered him ineffective, which of course makes no sense.
In 6 conference games leading up to Sat., LVD played 36, 37, 32, 31, 35, and 34 minutes. He is clearly the MVP of the team. He is a co-captain and reportedly the hardest working player on the team. He would be the last player I would expect Bryce to feel a need to sit because he won't listen or has some kind of attitude problem. There wasn't mention anywhere about his back bothering him, or anything else physical. Last, but not least, there is no way we were going to beat CSU without LVD on the court and having a big game, and yet he was only on the court half the time. Nothing about any of this makes any sense to me.
Doesn' t make perfect sense to me, but it makes a good deal of sense. Seems pretty self-explanatory: he was on the floor for awhile after CSU adjusted and was getting no action at all. I'm not saying the obvious answer is to remove him, but that Bryce wanted to throw a new wrinkle at them because the LVD wrinkle was not working at all hardly seems like twilight zone thinking to me.
Quote from: StlVUFan on January 29, 2014, 10:14:18 PMDoesn' t make perfect sense to me, but it makes a good deal of sense. Seems pretty self-explanatory: he was on the floor for awhile after CSU adjusted and was getting no action at all. I'm not saying the obvious answer is to remove him, but that Bryce wanted to throw a new wrinkle at them because the LVD wrinkle was not working at all hardly seems like twilight zone thinking to me.
I have to agree. LaVonte had re-entered the CSU game and his scoring had diminished to nil before being taken out again. Bryce tried something new and it didn't work. Our balanced scoring used to be a huge asset but it seems our balanced scoring isn't so balanced anymore and is leaning heavily on Dority.
I think they are leaning on him right now because he is dangerously hot. When/if he comes back to earth the others will pick up the pace.
Been reading the forum but not commenting because I didn't want to get into debates based on what I think is a lot of over analysis. What LAA said here hits the nail on the head.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on January 25, 2014, 07:37:50 PMI'll repeat, because it bears it: This team is top-50 in shooting, rebounding, scoring.
And we're 12-10, hovering around the top-50 PERCENT of teams.
Why? Well, multiple reasons, owing a lot to ill-defined roles and a lack of consistency in lineups, not allowing for gelling, player confidence or comfort, etc.
But mostly, the turnovers. We're really really good at scoring IF WE DON'T FRICKIN GIVE THE BALL AWAY. (And maybe the lack of familiarity with one another lends itself to that?)
Love the kids, love the talent, just don't think this team has an identity yet. I don't think Bryce has been able to trim the bench to only 7-8 players that typically play at this time of the year hence the yo-yo and what seems to be a searching for the right combinations.
Quote from: FWalum on January 30, 2014, 10:50:12 AMWhat LAA said here hits the nail on the head.
Thank you.