Next up is Drake. They pounded Davidson 51-14 today. But Valpo has had a history of playing Drake tough - especially at Brown Field.
Drake is 3-3 coming into Brown Field. They opened the season suffering a 22-45 drubbing at the hands of National D-II power Grand View and then bounced back against NAIA Truman State 13-7. They've lost to WIU and JU as well.
Common opponents:
Western Illinois -- Both lost: Valpo 45-6, Drake 38-13
Marist -- Drake won 21-6; Valpo lost 35-7 (Marist switched QBs for Valpo and their offense started to click and we killed ourselves)
PFL scores that might shed some light on possible opportunities:
Drake 51 Davidson 14
Dayton 31 Marist 21
USD 31 Stetson 23 -- this is a bit surprising and says that maybe USD is not as good as the pre-season polls said they were. It also says that in their second season, Stetson has greatly improved.
JU 45 Morehead 26 -- Morehead can score, no doubt about it -- they laid 42 on us last year and 76 the year before
UPSET OF THE WEEK:
Campbell 28 Butler 9 -- BU was not dominating in their win over D-III Wittenberg in OOC games and have lost to YSU (44-13), JU (35-7) and now Campbell. Stetson scored 41 on them as Butler won by only 8.
Des Moines Second Finest 28
Valpo 24
If you haven't ever watched the game previews with Todd and Coach with the closed caption on, give it a shot :). It is hilarious this time to see what cc comes up with. It is exactly like those videos on NFL players mouthing something, but a voiceover giving a completely different take on what they are saying.
Valpo 21
Drake 35
Drake 42
VU 10
We aren't there yet. Paul
Drake 48
Valpo 13
On the right track, but lose this one as well.
Drake 31
Valpo 23
Will this game be streamed on Saturday and if so what the link.. This should be a great game for us to win..
Quote from: NuPudge on October 15, 2014, 11:56:02 AM
Will this game be streamed on Saturday and if so what the link.. This should be a great game for us to win..
There is no indication that the game will be streamed at this time.
I don't understand, the alumni who attended there for years and supported the football program wants to still watch the game even if we live in another state. I will even pay for the game but allow me a option. Same old Valpo, not thinking outside the box.. New coach, new track, new facilities, new dorms, etc.. and same mindset about football.. So sad.
According to this story at the beginning of the season, it will be. http://www.valpoathletics.com/athletics/news/2014-15/13828/valparaiso-announces-fall-hln-offerings-new-digital-presence/ (http://www.valpoathletics.com/athletics/news/2014-15/13828/valparaiso-announces-fall-hln-offerings-new-digital-presence/)
Also, IIRC, the story with the link video typically doesn't appear until game day, since it's not something linked through the Horizon League site with football not being an HL sport.
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 11, 2014, 09:37:11 PMThey opened the season suffering a 22-45 drubbing at the hands of National D-II power Grand View and then bounced back against NAIA Truman State 13-7.
Hello Crusader fans -
Grand View is actually the NAIA team (defending national champ). Truman is a very average D-II.
Drake ran the ball over 60 times last week. We'll see if that's a new trend.
There is nothing here that indicates a lack of support for Valpo football, just because a game might not be streamed. As mentioned by vusupporter, football is NOT a Horizon League sport. The fact that we even have a few games on HLN for a non-Horizon League sport, shows that Valpo DOES support football. What you should be saying is that the Pioneer Football League isn't supporting their teams, as there isn't a PFLN to deliver content.
Based on the last couple of weeks, I think the Pioneer football league and the Horizon, with collaboration with Valpo, could do a better job promoting their product.
tx brought up a really good point last week during the broadcast - the Horizon league ads still included Butler and Loyola. I sure hope at a national level that they do not use those anyone as it would be embarrassing! I know the broadcast is on the web, and maybe a few hundred see it worldwide. Nevertheless, they should not show those old Horizon league ads. Show the Crusader mascot walking around campus, show Ginger Zee and her pride for Valpo, but please quit showing archaic Horizon league ads. Let's live in 2014.
Regarding the Pioneer league - who the heck knows. The website is awful. I am sure the administrators of the league are not paid handsomely. But I think the conference tries to meet a purpose, which is to gather a bunch a non-scholarship, "let's have football just as a part of our university portfolio" teams and place them together to face one another. I am guessing the marketing budget for the PFL is very minimal.
There is now a video link for the Drake at Valpo PFL football game today.
http://www.valpoathletics.com/football/news/2014-15/13852/watch-valpo-footballs-game-vs-drake-live/#.VEJ8SWddXh4 (http://www.valpoathletics.com/football/news/2014-15/13852/watch-valpo-footballs-game-vs-drake-live/#.VEJ8SWddXh4)
If you can't watch, I'll be tweeting some updates @pjankvalpo as I will be covering the game for The Times in the absence of Professor Oren.
At the quarter -- VU 6 - Drake 0. VU had the wind. We're playing them nose to nose so far.
Drake bobbled punt snap. Valpo drove to 4 but holding call negated TD settled for FG. Valpo 9 - Drake 0.
Drake - missed FG!
Lehman appears out with a head injury. Staal in.
Drake has managed a FG. With 45 secs left it is VU 9 Drake 3.
At the half 9-3 Valpo.
Defense is playing well so far, but the rain is obviously helping as well.
They fixed the HL ad to reflect current teams! Also, the PFL Commissioner and MVFC Commissioner is the same person. I believe that it is still Patty Vivierto (sp?).
Start of the 4th. Drake scores. 10-9
Valpo D starting to get worn down.
Staal 2/9 on passing so far.
Staal is absolutely terrible. If we end up losing, it is because Lehman got knocked out of the game, and we had to put in a QB who cannot throw. We can also put it on our defensive subs, as we have now been caught twice with 12 men on the field in key situations, when Drake didn't make any subs.
I mean seriously, quit throwing like a 5 year old! Every pass is short or batted down by the defensive line
Worst...QB...in...Valpo...history
What happened after the blocked punt? I had to leave for a few minuites? Did we pick one? Took to teh last minute for Drake to p[ut the nail in teh coffin,
We couldn't have even tried two of the FR at QB at some point in the second half? If you didn't watch this game, Staal just lobs 20 mph softballs to our WRs, with absolutely no speed on it, and he can't throw past 5 yds. Our defense played fantastic, but we didn't give them any shot in the second half once Lehman went down. Lehman isn't great, but he is at least average, and can throw the ball downfield. This is a game that we should have won based on how it was played in the first 3 quarters. If we even had a 3 (on a scale of 10) at QB in the second half, we win this game. Instead, we ended up with a 1, and lose.
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 18, 2014, 03:37:19 PM
What happened after the blocked punt? I had to leave for a few minuites? Did we pick one? Took to teh last minute for Drake to p[ut the nail in teh coffin,
We blocked their FG on that drive after they blocked our punt. It didn't matter though, as we had no air game in the second half without Lehman.
Let's take it easy on the kid. Some were saying the same thing about Ben after St. Joes. Scott Staal is the reserve. He's had no reps to speak of. If he is the starter next week due to Ben's injury, then we can better assess his skills. Right now I am just happy we stayed in the game. Hats off to the Defense. This was a competitive loss. In year one of any rebuild, this is what we need to look for. The key is how do we respond next week after coming so close? We go to Morehead. Do we build on the positives and correct the negatives? Do we come out and play for a win or do we get depressed about the loss and never recover? The teams the past four years fell into the latter category.
Did you watch his passes? It has nothing to do with reps, he has no arm strength. Every single pass was 2-3 yds short or behind the WRs, even on basic 5 yd slant routes that were wide open. My criticism is not because he wasn't going through his options, which would have more to do with not getting game reps. It is simply that he did not demonstrate any ability to literally throw a quality pass to a wide open WR. I imagine that he is a smart kid, can read a defense, etc, but can he throw a pass 10 yds in the air?
BTW, just a hunch, but Ben's mobility is why he's in there and I'm thinking the freshman from FL, fits the mobile QB model. Mobile BS (who can throw darts), I'm guessing, are key to Cecchini's Offense.
Quote from: valpotx on October 18, 2014, 03:51:50 PM
Did you watch his passes? It has nothing to do with reps, he has no arm strength. Every single pass was 2-3 yds short or behind the WRs, even on basic 5 yd slant routes that were wide open. My criticism is not because he wasn't going through his options, which would have more to do with not getting game reps. It is simply that he did not demonstrate any ability to literally throw a quality pass to a wide open WR. I imagine that he is a smart kid, can read a defense, etc, but can he throw a pass 10 yds in the air?
Coming out of preseason camp, most observers said Scott had the strongest arm in camp and in the final scrimmage he made the starting QB choice tough for the staff. My personal opinion is that he is nervous and uncomfortable right now. What you saw out there was stage fright. And smart? 4.00 in the business school and Cecchini says he's the smartest QB he's ever coached. But that all is negated if he's so nervous he can't control the ball. Dollars to donuts, if you and I were in a pickup flag FB game against him, and it was purely fun, he'd destroy us. BUT this ain't pickup games. The truly great ones have ice in their veins from the time they come out of the womb (Doug Flutie). The next level of greatness comes from learning from experience and then the ice kicks in. Tom Brady is my exhibit A on the latter. Just like our whole team, let's see how Scott responds going forward. BTW, could you tell I'm from New England?
I have no issue with Lehman. He is a serviceable QB
I didn't either. I was kind of mystified by the early criticism myself. I love mobility in a QB (even if it is never used). It's just one more thing the D has to prepare for. That why I like Aaron Rogers so much -- can you tell I'm living in Wisconsin now?
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 18, 2014, 04:04:40 PM
Quote from: valpotx on October 18, 2014, 03:51:50 PM
Did you watch his passes? It has nothing to do with reps, he has no arm strength. Every single pass was 2-3 yds short or behind the WRs, even on basic 5 yd slant routes that were wide open. My criticism is not because he wasn't going through his options, which would have more to do with not getting game reps. It is simply that he did not demonstrate any ability to literally throw a quality pass to a wide open WR. I imagine that he is a smart kid, can read a defense, etc, but can he throw a pass 10 yds in the air?
Coming out of preseason camp, most observers said Scott had the strongest arm in camp and in the final scrimmage he made the starting QB choice tough for the staff. My personal opinion is that he is nervous and uncomfortable right now. What you saw out there was stage fright. And smart? 4.00 in the business school and Cecchini says he's the smartest QB he's ever coached. But that all is negated if he's so nervous he can't control the ball. Dollars to donuts, if you and I were in a pickup flag FB game against him, and it was purely fun, he'd destroy us. BUT this ain't pickup games. The truly great ones have ice in their veins from the time they come out of the womb (Doug Flutie). The next level of greatness comes from learning from experience and then the ice kicks in. Tom Brady is my exhibit A on the latter. Just like our whole team, let's see how Scott responds going forward. BTW, could you tell I'm from New England?
Whoa whoa whoa, let's not assume too much on his ability to destroy me passing. Before I ended up at Valpo due to Tommy John surgery, I was being recruited by top 25 baseball programs ;). As a 33 year old man post-TJ surgery, sure, but with what I was originally given, no contest lol
But not a FB player coming out of HS, right? :)
No, not a QB in HS, but I could definitely throw it downfield a distance. We threw footballs daily to build arm strength in HS. Maybe that is why I needed surgery lol.
Worst QB in Valpo history? Wow, now that is a intriguing discussion as there are many candidates.
Fine, worst since the 1999 season that was my FR year. I can't speak to before that season
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 18, 2014, 03:47:31 PMScott Staal is the reserve. He's had no reps to speak of. If he is the starter next week due to Ben's injury, then we can better assess his skills.
At the beginning of the year Staal and Lehman were both getting reps because there was no clear cut starting QB. Then Lehman won the job and Staal became the second string QB. That is a poor statement to say that Staal had no reps unless you're only talking about the last few games.
I agree that Staal did a poor job and has regressed since the beginning of the year.
I was very glad to see the defense playing better and getting the takeaways that kept Valpo in the game. Unfortunately Valpo had little offense at all in the second half and once the rain stopped Drake regrouped their offense and was able to put a scoring drive together to win the game. The final TD was due to Staal's poor passing.
I didn't see the game.
I saw this:
STAAL E 7-20 52 yds 2 INT
1) THAT IS TWO POINT SIX YARDS PER ATTEMPT. That is beyond pathetic. (For reference, Tim Tebow's career was 10.4 ypa, 3rd all time). Eastern Michigan is last in FBS this year with 4.6.
2) When weather is an issue, and also the fact that THIS GUY CLEARLY CAN'T THROW, WHY did they keep trying to? Remember Einstein's definition of insanity.
The only worse line I can remember off the top of my head from a QB is Derek Anderson with Cleveland, who was 2 of SEVENTEEN for 23 yards and a pick in like 2008 (edit: 2009). And somehow Cleveland won the game, but I don't want to talk about it.
To someone looking at the stats--not at the game, but remember that statistics exist to quantify and confirm the eye test--this is a game that could have been turnaround win, but instead was lost for want of a QB. 10 points given up on defense should win you 8 or 9 outta 10.
Ugly for sure. A referendum on the backup QB? Might be a bit early for that. Lets session how he does with a week of reps with the first team. Hard to compare the starter vs. backup. Same thing happened to Butler at Campbell. More concern should be on Bens condition--looks like a concussion.
Quote from: VUDad on October 18, 2014, 05:22:52 PM
Ugly for sure. A referendum on the backup QB? Might be a bit early for that. Lets session how he does with a week of reps with the first team. Hard to compare the starter vs. backup. Same thing happened to Butler at Campbell. More concern should be on Bens condition--looks like a concussion.
Totally concur.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on October 18, 2014, 04:53:56 PM
I didn't see the game.
I saw this:
STAAL E 7-20 52 yds 2 INT
THIS GUY CLEARLY CAN'T THROW, WHY did they keep trying to? Remember Einstein's definition of insanity.
I watched most of the game -- between cutting the lawn and raking leaves. In the second half after Ben went down, they tried very hard to establish a running game to reduce the need to pass. But there is a reason Drake is #4 in rush defense in the PFL, #2 in scoring defense and #3 in total defense. They took away our rushing attack in the second half and that forced Scott to be a thrower. And, yes, my earlier reference to reduced snaps was since Ben was named the starter. Scott also slowed jitters in his other earlier appearances -- again, a reps and confidence thing.
I was at the game today and the defense played very well the whole game.... Unfortunately, the offense couldn't move the ball at all. Definitely a game that Valpo should have won. I know the defense is playing some younger players because of injuries and the kids stepped up today. So when the original starters get healthy again, I feel the defense can compete much better than earlier in the season. The defense only gave up 10 points and one TD actually came after a turnover by our offense in the Drake red zone. The last score by Drake to get them to 17 on the scoreboard was a pick 6..... I think Coach Cecc needs to try some younger players on offense because if your defense can hold an opponent to 10 points or less then you should win the game.
I know that the Valpo QB is taking a lot of heat today but from my seat in the stands 50% of the problem was the receivers weren't really open either. Often the QB would be scrambling and the receivers would be standing watching him run versus trying to get open or breaking off their routes.
I think that's probably true--it's a team game, so it's on the line and the receivers too--but Lehmann posted like a 133 rating with the same receivers and line versus the same defense...while Staal racked up like a 37.
I just feel the coaches are supposed to put players in the position to succeed. You wouldn't make Peyton Manning run the read-option. There has to be some bubble screen or something that the kid can do well rather than stuff he can't (especially in the wind).
serviceable is usually not a characteristic that will get you to the promised land...
Lehman may not be sitting in the QB seat if he doesn't not clear the concussion test this week. So Staal maybe the driving the team. As far as the freshman QB' they would not be ready to play and why would you want to blow a red shirt. Bottom line poor play calling second half.
Well it may not seem like it from our record but overall the team looks better to me. I know I'm in the minority but I think the play calling and coaching looks good just the offensive execution wasn't there. True you don't "want" to ruin a redshirt with 5 games left at this point but if Ben doesn't play next week you will still need another QB for back up for Staal. Often things don't go as planned especially in football when injuries are so prevalent; that's why teams have a "next man up" philosophy.
I'm with the Herm Edwards philosophy on football...."You play to win the game."
Link to the post-game press conference will shed some light on the QB situation.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_8tAH4jGT08&feature=youtube_gdata
I liked what valpochgo posted. These guys are getting better and they are a better coached team. Yes they make mistakes, but not the ones we laughed about in the past 4 or 5 years. However, for a non-scholarship program, should losing a redshirt year really matter? I would think several of these guys want to graduate in four years if they have to fork out a significant portion of the expenses. The freshmen may want to play, who knows. Also, there are chances of underclassman transferring out, which we have seen.
I agree with usc4valpo about kids not caring about redshirting "as much" at a non-scholarship program. Also, I don't keep up with all of the game stats but if Ben had a 133 QBR was that against Marist or Campbell? If it was against a D2 or NAIA school I'm not sure you are giving Drake enough credit as they had a pretty good defense and also seemed well coached. When we give up 34 and 39 points in our first 2 PFL games and only 10 (without the pick 6) today against Drake, I just feel there has been some improvement in the team.
You people need to give Staal a break already. Anyone who's watched practicee the last few weeks will know that his reps in practice have been diminished over the last few weeks by a ton due to Lehman asserting the starting role - I talked to one of the offensive lineman who said they ran plays Staal hadn't even got reps on! (talk about poor play calling if thats the case...)
As far as saying he has no arm, are you joking? Anyone familiar with the team knows that he has a MUCH better arm.
And when you're constantly put in 3rd and long situations as a result of no running game, how can you expect to succeed when the #2 ranked DEF knows you've got to throw long...
Let's also keep in mind that the two int's came in desperation time when we were losing as a result of a blocked PAT...
Also, if anyone watched the big scrimmage before the season started, you can see how that kid can throw the ball.
Quote from: GOVALPO42 on October 18, 2014, 10:53:42 PM
You people need to give Staal a break already. Anyone who's watched practicee the last few weeks will know that his reps in practice have been diminished over the last few weeks by a ton due to Lehman asserting the starting role - I talked to one of the offensive lineman who said they ran plays Staal hadn't even got reps on! (talk about poor play calling if thats the case...)
As far as saying he has no arm, are you joking? Anyone familiar with the team knows that he has a MUCH better arm.
And when you're constantly put in 3rd and long situations as a result of no running game, how can you expect to succeed when the #2 ranked DEF knows you've got to throw long...
Let's also keep in mind that the two int's came in desperation time when we were losing as a result of a blocked PAT...
Also, if anyone watched the big scrimmage before the season started, you can see how that kid can throw the ball.
From the press conference here is what Coach Cecchini said about Scott Staal:
Scott couldn't develop that rhythm. He did not play the way he's capable of playing. He needs to learn to have a short memory. Scott had a couple of poor reads and a couple of poor throws. He didn't step up when we needed him to. Coach C also said that Scott started off completing some passes and didn't look too bad. But in the 4th quarter the line did not play well and the running game was stopped. In this case the back up QB must step up and complete some of those third down, crucial plays, which Ben did do in the first half.
As LaPorte said Ben was able to have some success against the same line and with the same receivers and Staal just didn't compete nearly as well as Lehman.
FYI, the Valpo defense was extremely tough on the Drake offense in the first half and in that fowl weather did show that Drake did not play like a duck type team. But in the end Drake bulldogged out a win, unfortunately.
Maybe he has an arm, but I have only seen him play in the regular season, so that is my sample size. He had several throws on 1st and 2nd downs, that just didn't make it to their targets 5-10 yds downfield. These were the times he wasn't rushed too. There was one throw in particular that stands out on a screen pass attempt to Kuramata. He went too far back on his drop before turning around to try and dump it off to Tanner, and it was batted down. Maybe he does better in the next few games, but my opinion is based on what I saw today. His last INT was in desperation time, but the first one was with 1 minute left on 2nd and 9 at our own 40, trying to go down for the go-ahead drive. We still had 1-2 timeouts. That is not desperation, but a winning drive opportunity. Also, he threw 20 times, so a lot of those third and long situations weren't because of our running game.
I heard the same things that GOVALPO42 shared, and also heard that Stahl hurt his foot on the first play he was in the game but kept going. The guys on the team have faith in him. While this fan board allows folks to vent, keep in mind that many parents and even some players read your posts. Pretty sure comparing a guys first time having more than two series in a game with the career stats of Tim Teboe or making judgment on his overall worthiness to play QB at Valpo is less than fair. And listen to all the coachs comments because he also said the he has confidence in Stahl and believe he has the talent to win games this year for Valpo. We all want him to gain his confidence before next Saturday.
Wasn't comparing him to Tebow--just giving his admittedly excellent number so that people have an idea of the high end of the scale. It used to be yards per completion that was an important stat; now we are migrating to yards per attempt as a more accurate assessment (cf. Woody Hayes' 'three things happen when you pass'). I gave EMU's number so people have an idea of what the other end of the scale is (which still looks good from here).
Coaches can't call things kids don't know how to run and expect anything good.
Quote from: ole skol baller 2 on October 18, 2014, 08:40:39 PMLehman may not be sitting in the QB seat if he doesn't not clear the concussion test this week. So Staal maybe the driving the team. As far as the freshman QB' they would not be ready to play and why would you want to blow a red shirt. Bottom line poor play calling second half.
Just to clear this topic up a little. Clarke has already played this year as a QB vs. Missouri Baptist and several games as the long snapper so he was available. They are trying to redshirt Stokes. My guess, next week if we Lehman does not play Clarke will get in at some point if Staal continues to struggle.
I agree with VUDad. A lot of parents and players read the post and many of the people that post don't attend, watch, listen or really support the team unless they are winning. A lot of folks that post on here are negative and seems they want the football program to end. I was at the game also spoke with some players on the team and they are frustrated. Most feel that all of there weapons are not being used to include freshmen to the 5th year Seniors. As far are Clarke, don't think he will get that many snaps in practice or next Saturdays game. Just my opinion.
Great job by the defense. Forced turnovers, 4th down holds! Football is a TEAM game. In some games, the offense will carry the D and vice versa. Here's hoping that we can see both sides of the ball put it together soon.
Scott didn't play anywhere near his potential yesterday, and while that's been made abundantly clear by several on this forum no one is more aware or more embarrassed by it then him (full disclosure--I'm Scott's dad). He has it in him to make a big bounce, though, for next week's game and however long it takes for Ben to recover. Why? If all of you knew even a portion of how much he's had to overcome just to be able to run on his own legs out onto the field, then you'd appreciate what's inside him--a depth and drive that maybe only his dad will ever truly know. He's come a long way, and yes, he still has a ways to go before playing up to his potential. No matter what's said about him, I'm proud of #12.
Quote from: FloridaFootball on October 19, 2014, 09:43:33 AM
Great job by the defense. Forced turnovers, 4th down holds! Football is a TEAM game. In some games, the offense will carry the D and vice versa. Here's hoping that we can see both sides of the ball put it together soon.
I want to echo this comment. I was at the game, though rain limited the number of photos I took. Despite the offense faltering in the second half, the defensive performance was as fine as I have seen in a while. Ryan Singh led the tough defense with gritty play, getting 13 tackles (7 solo, 6 assists).
(http://i59.tinypic.com/r7t9jq.jpg)
Quote from: 2Crusaders on October 19, 2014, 10:21:14 AM
Scott didn't play anywhere near his potential yesterday, and while that's been made abundantly clear by several on this forum no one is more aware or more embarrassed by it then him (full disclosure--I'm Scott's dad). He has it in him to make a big bounce, though, for next week's game and however long it takes for Ben to recover. Why? If all of you knew even a portion of how much he's had to overcome just to be able to run on his own legs out onto the field, then you'd appreciate what's inside him--a depth and drive that maybe only his dad will ever truly know. He's come a long way, and yes, he still has a ways to go before playing up to his potential. No matter what's said about him, I'm proud of #12.
To 2Crusaders: Scott was put into a difficult situation. It is always tough to be thrown into a situation like Scott faced yesterday... Just know that the player's parents are fully behind Scott and have confidence that he will play to his potential next Saturday! The player's stand behind Scott too. Just tell him to keep his head held high and not let his confidence waiver. I have more of an issue with the playcalling on the offensive of side of the ball.
Quote from: ole skol baller 2 on October 19, 2014, 09:35:20 AMmany of the people that post don't attend, watch, listen or really support the team unless they are winning.
I very much object to this statement. The people that post have been suffering with this team since it was winning which hasn't been for quite a while now. We have suffered through the Adams and Carlson, "Osteen quoter," regimes. We have followed this team despite all the losing. If you want to lose any support that Valpo has on this board then piss off the true supporters. I think it shows we care because we do want them to win badly and we will rejoice when the team finally wins on a regular basis. I do think Cecchini is going in a positive direction but very slowly and it really hurt when a game was winnable but the team couldn't pull out the victory. Sometimes that hurts a lot more than getting beat by 70 points.
I think we all have to remember a couple of things that make football a different fan and player experience:
This is not the NFL, FBS or even FCS football -- this is non-scholarship "play for the love of it" football.
These are kids trying the best they can -- no one out on that field yesterday was not playing their heart out within their ability range.
Rome was not built in a day. This new program did not bring in a flood of 3 star scholarship players. This is only the 7th game this particular program has had under it's belt. In the previous 4 years we would have been almost happy with the overall level of competitiveness to date.
As I indicated yesterday afternoon immediately after the game, I have to go along with those on the forum who echo that it is unfair to single out individual players and place the responsibility for a loss like this on one player's shoulders. A number of team factors contribute to any loss just like they do for a win. Drake put more pressure on the QB rushing only 4 because they were over powering our OL. That left 7 to defend. The combination of pressure and coverage is hard to throw against. The fact that our run game was ineffective further challenged the passing attack.
There are 5 games ahead: @ Morehead, @ Dayton, Butler, @ USD and Davidson. Of those five, Morehead and Davidson have been bottom feeders like Valpo for the last few years. Those two games are games against "equals." We could come away with a win in each game (or not), but the true indicator is how close the scores are. Dayton (beat MSU 41-7 Saturday) and USD (won @ Butler 27-21) are among the PFL elite. I would expect to lose both as they are also road games. But again, how close will the scores be? If we hang in and lose by two scores, we show vast improvement over the previous 5 seasons. Then there is Butler @ home. They have come down to earth from the Lancaster years (they beat us 72-12 last year after which Carlson was let go) and are now a middle of the pack team. That could be a toss-up game.
So if we are judging this team (which this forum does quite well), IMO, it comes down to how we finish the season. I would submit that the only judgmental criteria we should use from this point forward this season are the following:
Did we compete
Did we reduce stupid errors
Did we earn our opponents' respect
-- none of which happened in the last 5 years.
If we win a game or two along the way that puts icing on the cake.
Amen! I think we're all a little sore because it was so close...and slipped from our grasp.
However, where were these games the past few years? Last year we had 3 conference games that were as close as 2 scores. You have to get back TWO years to get a one-score conference loss (Davidson; also in 2011 a one-score loss).
We are improving. That is largely on coaches, but as I said before, a lot of this loss is on them too. It wasn't quite "charge of the light brigade" of course, but sending the under equipped into battle they weren't adequately prepared for? That's not fair to the kids.
(I echo the whole 'redshirt' thing...I hope whoever has to redshirt is on academic scholarship. Reminds me of talking to Carl Gioia's dad probably ten years ago...I said "your son plays football for Notre Dame. That's gotta make a Catholic father's heart swell with pride." "No," he replied. "But a scholarship would." A week later, Ty Willingham called Carl into the office and gave him the news his father wanted to hear : )
Oh, and as far as "wanting to drop the program", that's just setshot. Please don't lump us all in with him.
Here's the NWIT account:
http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/valparaiso-university/crusaders-suffer-heart-breaking-pfl-loss-to-drake/article_c26d60ec-5da4-5728-ac3a-c2152fc3afc6.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/valparaiso-university/crusaders-suffer-heart-breaking-pfl-loss-to-drake/article_c26d60ec-5da4-5728-ac3a-c2152fc3afc6.html)
And the Post-Trib:
http://posttrib.suntimes.com/sports/colleges/30519819-556/drake-defense-too-much-for-valparaiso.html#.VEPypr4XKgE (http://posttrib.suntimes.com/sports/colleges/30519819-556/drake-defense-too-much-for-valparaiso.html#.VEPypr4XKgE)
Fine, after settling down a bit, I will revise my statement to say that it was just the worst QB performance in a game that I have seen since my FR year of 1999. My revised statement has nothing to do with the fact that parents and players might read this forum. Having been a VU athlete, I wouldn't have cared if forum posters were saying that I suck, had a terrible game, etc. Truthfully, we knew that there was a forum even back then, but thought that it was funny :). Generally, I am one of the more positive posters on this board across our sports, and I follow everything and anything Valpo sports from a long distance (Texas)! I have seen similar numbers put up, but because of video nowadays, I am actually able to watch it as it happens. It used to just be via radio and live stats. Maybe that is why it is more frustrating nowadays related to watching our football team. I have absolutely no issues with our coaching staff like I did with the previous regime. I never warmed to Carlson, but am loving Coach C so far.
I felt that even with the unfortunate injuries on defense it did bring a bright spot. Ryan Singh who is a reserve played great! Even in the rain you could here him "hitting" in the stands as he plays very physical football. Melvin is also very good player so I think there is some good depth at the safety position that I was unaware we had. I'm not sure why Ryan hasn't played more in past games but I hope the coaches keep playing him moving forward.
please, no more comparisons to Tim Tebow. We can do better than that...
OK, you guys need to lighten up a little bit. It was a tough loss, but these guys are improving and showing potential. The games are more competitive, they are much better coached than under Osteen, and now we are getting mad over close games. That is a better attitude than last year. We are not seeing 72-12 losses. Guys, this is going to take time. The talent pool is low and this team does not have a lot of depth - let's be realistic here. There cup board was not exactly full when Cecchini got here.
Campbell is a better team this year. Drake could have been a nice W, but if the defense continues to play like that, they will win a couple more games. Staal will be better I am sure.
As for the critiquing, I want them to win but I am a realist. There was no way this team would win 6 or 7 games. Again, a 4 win season would exceed expectations. After that, then Cecchini can focus on getting players that meet his needs.
Quote from: valpochgo on October 19, 2014, 01:34:15 PM
I felt that even with the unfortunate injuries on defense it did bring a bright spot. Ryan Singh who is a reserve played great! Even in the rain you could here him "hitting" in the stands as he plays very physical football. Melvin is also very good player so I think there is some good depth at the safety position that I was unaware we had. I'm not sure why Ryan hasn't played more in past games but I hope the coaches keep playing him moving forward.
Despite the tough loss, the defense did have a fine game. Here is a photo I took in the rain that gives an indication about how hard the defense was hitting on every play. (Missing from the image are the grunts and pounding of pads that were clearly audible.) In this picture are Singh, Moffitt, and Hall.
(http://i57.tinypic.com/126eddu.jpg)
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 19, 2014, 11:29:34 AMI think we all have to remember a couple of things that make football a different fan and player experience: This is not the NFL, FBS or even FCS football -- this is non-scholarship "play for the love of it" football. These are kids trying the best they can -- no one out on that field yesterday was not playing their heart out within their ability range. Rome was not built in a day. This new program did not bring in a flood of 3 star scholarship players. This is only the 7th game this particular program has had under it's belt. In the previous 4 years we would have been almost happy with the overall level of competitiveness to date. As I indicated yesterday afternoon immediately after the game, I have to go along with those on the forum who echo that it is unfair to single out individual players and place the responsibility for a loss like this on one player's shoulders. A number of team factors contribute to any loss just like they do for a win. Drake put more pressure on the QB rushing only 4 because they were over powering our OL. That left 7 to defend. The combination of pressure and coverage is hard to throw against. The fact that our run game was ineffective further challenged the passing attack. There are 5 games ahead: @ Morehead, @ Dayton, Butler, @ USD and Davidson. Of those five, Morehead and Davidson have been bottom feeders like Valpo for the last few years. Those two games are games against "equals." We could come away with a win in each game (or not), but the true indicator is how close the scores are. Dayton (beat MSU 41-7 Saturday) and USD (won @ Butler 27-21) are among the PFL elite. I would expect to lose both as they are also road games. But again, how close will the scores be? If we hang in and lose by two scores, we show vast improvement over the previous 5 seasons. Then there is Butler @ home. They have come down to earth from the Lancaster years (they beat us 72-12 last year after which Carlson was let go) and are now a middle of the pack team. That could be a toss-up game. So if we are judging this team (which this forum does quite well), IMO, it comes down to how we finish the season. I would submit that the only judgmental criteria we should use from this point forward this season are the following: Did we compete Did we reduce stupid errors Did we earn our opponents' respect -- none of which happened in the last 5 years. If we win a game or two along the way that puts icing on the cake.
I agree with your idea for focusing on those three. When the fans/alums/forum posters start feeding on individual players that we're supposed to support, something doesn't feel quite right.
Dad, I think you are being overly sensitive. One player - Staal - was being critiqued by one person. He had a bad game, and that cannot be sugarcoated. Staal will tell you he had a crappy game and that he could play better. I heard he was hurt; maybe he'll recover next week. I thought tx's critique was a little overboard and a little humorous, but so what (In all fun, I disagree with his comment - there were some really, really bad QBs who played at Valpo in the 80's). In reality, he cares about the team and wants them to be successful. We all want to see this team succeed.
Think of it this way - if no one critiques, then no one really cares.
Good point received, USC. I tend to cheer for underdogs. Time to move on to Morehead St.
no problem my friend - this team is growing. At the end your son and these guys will be just fine.
Quote from: usc4valpo on October 19, 2014, 04:52:32 PM
Dad, I think you are being overly sensitive. One player - Staal - was being critiqued by one person. He had a bad game, and that cannot be sugarcoated. Staal will tell you he had a crappy game and that he could play better. I heard he was hurt; maybe he'll recover next week. I thought tx's critique was a little overboard and a little humorous, but so what (In all fun, I disagree with his comment - there were some really, really bad QBs who played at Valpo in the 80's). In reality, he cares about the team and wants them to be successful. We all want to see this team succeed.
Think of it this way - if no one critiques, then no one really cares.
I call it as I see it. I don't think that I went overboard at all in the moment, as I was being honest about what I was watching, That truthfully was the worst VU QB performance I have watched since I came to know VU in 1999. Then again, before we received video, it had been a few years since I was able to watch a game, versus radio/live stats. Therefore, I had to read into Todd's vocal tone on passes, to see if they were truly terrible passes or not, from the 2004 season until around 2009/2010.
I do it with myself as well in my adult baseball league. I hit a HR my first AB today, and then struck out on a really crappy curveball, and gave myself as much sh!t as I gave Staal ;). Overall, as said before, I thought that our defense played fantastic, and the team has gotten better on a whole.
I used to get called out for having 'brown and gold-colored' glasses, now I make an honest critical comment, and I am not supportive. Give me a break lol.
I recommend that we all transition over to the Game #8 post and start looking ahead. The water that went under the bridge is miles downstream.
BBTDS/LAA ---- time for an imbedded image: maybe a covered Vermont bridge, the Hoover dam, the Gallatin River outside of Bozeman, Montana, whatever.
(http://cdn.bozemannet.com/images/content/2284_3113_Gallatin_River_Canyon_Bozeman_Montana_md.jpg)
Gallatin River, Bozeman
Looks calming and serene.
The Defensive players should have been featured on the post game press conference. And you cant tell me that one of the best receivers in the PFL last year cant get a sniff on this years team after all of the drop passes that I saw on Saturday. We need to stretch the field for the underneath game to work with our small slot receivers to work. Are there that many receivers on this team better than Gladney? Do you want to win now or are you playing your guys to get experience for next year coach?
no biigie tx - you were correct on your assessment. He had a bad day. Some members are a little upset. We will survive.
(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/5461452.jpg)
i'd say that covers it
Quote from: FloridaFootball on October 19, 2014, 08:33:42 PM
The Defensive players should have been featured on the post game press conference. And you cant tell me that one of the best receivers in the PFL last year cant get a sniff on this years team after all of the drop passes that I saw on Saturday. We need to stretch the field for the underneath game to work with our small slot receivers to work. Are there that many receivers on this team better than Gladney? Do you want to win now or are you playing your guys to get experience for next year coach?
This is the type of crap that must stop. Every pass examined, every decision questioned. The notion that the coach is on a very short lease or that he and his staff have an agenda toward one player or the next only serves to further divide an already precarious football legacy. We need to give the coach and his staff a fair shake, plain and simple.
Quote from: usc4valpo on October 19, 2014, 02:49:24 PM
OK, you guys need to lighten up a little bit. It was a tough loss, but these guys are improving and showing potential. The games are more competitive, they are much better coached than under Osteen, and now we are getting mad over close games. That is a better attitude than last year. We are not seeing 72-12 losses. Guys, this is going to take time. The talent pool is low and this team does not have a lot of depth - let's be realistic here. There cup board was not exactly full when Cecchini got here.
Campbell is a better team this year. Drake could have been a nice W, but if the defense continues to play like that, they will win a couple more games. Staal will be better I am sure.
As for the critiquing, I want them to win but I am a realist. There was no way this team would win 6 or 7 games. Again, a 4 win season would exceed expectations. After that, then Cecchini can focus on getting players that meet his needs.
Quote from: usc4valpo on October 19, 2014, 02:49:24 PM
OK, you guys need to lighten up a little bit. It was a tough loss, but these guys are improving and showing potential. The games are more competitive, they are much better coached than under Osteen, and now we are getting mad over close games. That is a better attitude than last year. We are not seeing 72-12 losses. Guys, this is going to take time. The talent pool is low and this team does not have a lot of depth - let's be realistic here. There cup board was not exactly full when Cecchini got here.
Campbell is a better team this year. Drake could have been a nice W, but if the defense continues to play like that, they will win a couple more games. Staal will be better I am sure.
As for the critiquing, I want them to win but I am a realist. There was no way this team would win 6 or 7 games. Again, a 4 win season would exceed expectations. After that, then Cecchini can focus on getting players that meet his needs.
I have been a Valpo FB Dad for 5 seasons. This season's defense has shown a lot of improvement, but the offense has declined. There is a lot more experience, talent and depth at WR than we have seen this season. Hoffman didn't always recognize when to throw the ball away, but he did a good job of distributing the ball to many different receivers. Using multiple receivers spreads the defense, creates more favorable match ups and opens up holes for the RBs. The inconsistency with the passing game, and interceptions may be a product of the QB trying to force the ball to 1 or 2 receivers every play (in multiple coverage). Rotating receivers promotes player development, and ensures that WRs have fresher legs than the DBs in the 4th quarter. :twocents:
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on October 19, 2014, 09:21:16 PM
(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/5461452.jpg)
i'd say that covers it
(http://www.rellimzone.com/images/movies/beetlejuice-1988-movie-02.png)
(http://images4.static-bluray.com/reviews/730_2.jpg)
Well I guess we are finding out that quite a few people (players, parents, etc.) read the forum but don't generally post or perhaps even register.
If you watch the postgame press conference I felt Coach Cecc was honest and accurate about what happened in the second half of the game. He stated that Drake's defensive line was dominant over our offensive line and they were able to rush with 4 and drop 7 players into coverage. That explains why it was difficult for the Valpo receivers to get open.
I actually told my friends at halftime that the failed extra point and us having to settle for a field goal instead of a TD when we were deep inside the redzone could cost us the game. I still feel that those 5 points cost us as Valpo would have been leading 14-3 at halftime vs. being up only 9-3. There wouldn't have been a need to pass late in the 4th quarter and we would have won 14-10. In my opinion Drake got lucky getting out of Brown Field with a victory; yet winning is a mindset and our team has to believe they are winners before it will actually start happening on a regular basis.
Campbell has really turned their program around in their coaches second year and I think Valpo can have similar success in time.......