What is the size of this year's freshman class? Are the ACT/SAT/GPA numbers better than last year? What is our overall undergraduate enrollment? Any other info. would be appreciated. Thanks!
I don't remember the exact numbers, but the class is larger than the previous year and one of the biggest in several years. The GPA/ACT/SAT numbers are higher than the previous year. I think the total undergrad number is about 3200.
I don't know that the official numbers are out yet. I think the "census" was taken just this last weekend: after people have a chance to show up, or not show up, etc. The unofficial numbers I heard for undergraduates were 712 freshmen and 175 transfers. The biggest class since 2003 (though not as big as they'd hoped).
I just came across a note from an admissions person back a month or so ago. That message indicated that the freshman class would be up 25-30 from the previous year and that transfers would be up 15-20. Both are increases for the third straight year. The totals will be the highest since 2003 and very near the 903 number from that year.
As mentioned earlier, SAT/GPA stats are higher than last year which continues a positive trend.
Did the university release the fall 2011 enrollment numbers? In the past, they would release this information a couple weeks after school started. Why is this all of a sudden top-secret information?
Paul
Quote from: 78crusader on September 30, 2011, 07:33:56 AM
Did the university release the fall 2011 enrollment numbers? In the past, they would release this information a couple weeks after school started. Why is this all of a sudden top-secret information?
Paul
The numbers from the census have probably been released, but maybe we just don't have anyone to post them. I am no longer working there, otherwise I would have the numbers.
As you say, Paul, the numbers should definitely be calculated by now. I've not seen a copy myself. I'm not sure exactly how they're handled.
They seem to be at least sort of dribbled out to the faculty (through department chairs, faculty meetings, etc.). I'm not sure if there is a comprehensive report (probably there is?) or who gets a copy. I'm also not sure how "public" the information is. It's not the sort of thing I'd expect to find, in detail, on a public admissions page. But, maybe they wouldn't object to making it available to e.g. alumni. You could certainly ask admissions.
I'll try to ask around as well, but no promises. They're certainly discussed among the faculty. Lately the hot issues have been the very ambitious growth plans, whether we're on track to meeting them, and also some concern about the retention rate. The retention rate's apparently been dipping a few percentage points in recent years. Like all data like this, it's a complicated thing, and there are many factors (economy, composition of the student body, etc, etc.). I don't think a dip of a percent or two is a huge issue, but if it becomes a trend it's a concern. And, of course, we want to attract and retain good students.
I wonder if vu72, as a member of the Valpo Admissions Network of Ambassadors at College Fairs would have these details?
Quote from: valporun on September 30, 2011, 10:59:27 AM
I wonder if vu72, as a member of the Valpo Admissions Network of Ambassadors at College Fairs would have these details?
Funny you should ask! I'm doing a college fair Monday night and just got my briefcase. Typically it includes a page of student statistics. I'll look when I get home tonight.
Quote from: vu72 on September 30, 2011, 11:19:00 AM
Quote from: valporun on September 30, 2011, 10:59:27 AM
I wonder if vu72, as a member of the Valpo Admissions Network of Ambassadors at College Fairs would have these details?
Funny you should ask! I'm doing a college fair Monday night and just got my briefcase. Typically it includes a page of student statistics. I'll look when I get home tonight.
Neat! I used to put together those briefcases a couple years ago, so if my memory serves me right, it should be one of the first pages inside the binder. I want to cover some college fairs being a young alum, but we don't attract too many students from North Dakota.
North Dakota's part of the Lutheran* heartland! But, not so densely populated.
*Of the Scandinavian, ELCA type, at least.
As for admissions, I'm told that they're actually still crunching the numbers.
I'm told that the final "common data set" will appear at
http://www.valpo.edu/registrar/statistics.php (http://www.valpo.edu/registrar/statistics.php)
sometime in the next few weeks.
I've not had a look at what that means, but you can check out the reports from the last ten years or so.
Does it contain the information you're after?
I think the page should be publicly accessible.
Just looked at the book and found that they are still using information labeled "2010-2011 Enrollment Facts".
In any event, we can at least use these as a starting point to see where changes have occurred once the new facts are released:
2010-2011 Enrollment Facts
Undergrad 2875
Grad 611
Law 575
Total 4061
Freshman Class
2970 admitted from 4070 applications. 692 enrolled.
37% Lutheran
26% Roman Catholic
48/52 male/female
Indiana residents 38%
Foreign students 3% from 11 countires.
17% minorities
Average GPA: 3.52/4.00
SAT mid-range 50% 1480-1810
ACT mid-range 23-29
32% in top 10% of graduating class
65% in top 25%
General Student Info
64% Arts and Science
14% Business
11% Engineering
11% Nursing
80 new students (from freshman class) in Christ College
30% Greek
66% live on Campus
20 programs in 11 countires for study abroad
82% freshman retention rate versus 78% nationally
74% graduate in five years versus 52% nationally
Cost
Tuition $28,590
General Fee 992
Room 5,150
Board 3,180
Total $37,912
That all I've got! I'll post new stats as soon as I see anything. President Heckler did say, at the Opening Convocation, that the new freshman class had stats that were better than these.
In my conversations with administrators at the beginning of the semester, I was told that the overall enrollment appeared to be up slightly, with some more freshmen and transfers, as well as more grad students, but that the increased enrollment was not quite as large as hoped because the retention rate was down a bit. I was also told the academic level of the incoming class, as marked by SAT & ACT scores, was a touch higher. Unfortunately, I don't remember the specific numbers that were mentioned. Perhaps final numbers will be available after October 10, which is the deadline for withdrawing from the university and still receiving partial refund.
Wow, more men than women now!
Quote from: valpotx on October 01, 2011, 12:24:52 AM
Wow, more men than women now!
Sorry guys. Got that backwards. Fixed now!
Quote from: vu72 on October 01, 2011, 08:13:50 AM
Quote from: valpotx on October 01, 2011, 12:24:52 AM
Wow, more men than women now!
Sorry guys. Got that backwards. Fixed now!
i was gonna say. lol. my freshman year (06-07), the ratio was closer to 55-45 females. that would have been a pretty drastic change in a short period of time.
Quote from: valpopal on September 30, 2011, 03:08:23 PM
Perhaps final numbers will be available after October 10, which is the deadline for withdrawing from the university and still receiving partial refund.
I believe that they're done taking data, but are still processing it. Who knows - I didn't get into all the details.
Agibson, vu72, weathernerd, okinawa, valpopal or anyone else --
why are the retention numbers relatively low compared to our peers? What is going on? What is the reason for this? And what is VU doing about it?
I've got some thoughts on why our retention numbers are where they are, but I wanted to get your input on this.
Paul
Quote from: 78crusader on October 03, 2011, 07:59:04 AM
Agibson, vu72, weathernerd, okinawa, valpopal or anyone else --
why are the retention numbers relatively low compared to our peers? What is going on? What is the reason for this? And what is VU doing about it?
I've got some thoughts on why our retention numbers are where they are, but I wanted to get your input on this.
Paul
I do not know that Valpo's retention rate is "relatively low" next to comparable schools (small, non-urban, religious, academically challenging, and very expensive). I am told there is study being done on campus about the retention rate; however, the initial reasons are believed to be the usual ones.
Valpo has a very expensive tuition difficult to maintain during an extended economic downturn. VU has recently done more outreach to minority and inner-city students whose backgrounds often include a lower economic level and high schools that did not prepare them fully for Valpo's academic challenges. Students from urban areas, particularly minorities, find themselves less comfortable in the social setting on a campus in a small Indiana town. The larger enrollment numbers of non-Lutherans do not have as much of a tie to Valpo, and the draw of a religious school is not as strong as it once was. Fewer students attending Valpo are from families who previously had Valpo grads; therefore, loyalty to Valpo is less than in the past. Finally, the current generation, used to quick Google-like results in various aspects of life, is less patient and more likely to move on quickly to examine other college options.
Quote from: valpopal on October 03, 2011, 09:08:20 AM
Finally, the current generation, used to quick Google-like results in various aspects of life, is less patient and more likely to move on quickly to examine other college options.
As we've seen on the basketball court, I suppose!
For me the retention numbers are basically a-contextual. If anyone has numbers from other schools, peers or not, I'd be curious to see them.
It's my recollection that Valpo's retention rate historically has been as good as if not better than most of its peers and probably remains that way even if it's dropped slightly in the past couple of years. I believe retention (along with graduation rate) is one of the factors used in the US News analysis for its rankings. If anyone has past copies of the magazines with the rankings they might be able to confirm or discredit my memory.
I just checked Butler and Loyola. Butler has a freshman retention rate of 88% and Loyola 83.9%. These compare to Valpo's 82%.
It is our graduation rate that is most impressive. Loyola and Butler publish 6 year graduation rates of 66.3% and 71% respectively. Valpo has a 5 year graduation rate of 74%.
Going from memory here, but I seem to recall VU's freshman retention rate in years past, as reported by US News, was around the 82-84% figure, although I think one year we dipped down to 81-82%. I also seem to remember this wasn't quite as good as the 3 or 4 schools in our category (Creighton, Butler, Xavier) that rank ahead of us -- they were all around 87-88%. There isn't much variability -- I think the vast majority of schools that rank below us are in the 75-79% retention rate. So, if we had a dip this past year to 80%, for instance, that is a big drop. I hope that's not the case.
If these figures are accurate, then even though it is a small statistical difference, it adds up -- if 5% more freshmen transfer than our peer institutions (assuming we're at 83% and, for instance, Creighton is at 88%), that's 35 more kids leaving out of a freshman class of 700. Which means, of course, that admissions has to work that much harder just to maintain enrollment, let alone increase enrollment.
I get the fact that VU costs a lot, but so do our peer institutions, so cost alone cannot be the reason we are having retention issues.
Paul
The Valpo numbers are up for the last dozen years at the website previously mentioned,
http://www.valpo.edu/registrar/statistics.php (http://www.valpo.edu/registrar/statistics.php)
(Nothing new yet, just reminding that the Valpo numbers are out there.) I'll paste the retention numbers in below. 2010 wasn't the lowest in the dataset, but 2009 and 2010 together were the lowest two years. I think that when the 2011 numbers come out, they'll be slightly lower than 2010.
I don't think it's a crisis, but as Paul says, if we want to increase enrollment, it makes the hill we have to climb a little bit higher. Every student who leaves has to be replaced by a transfer, a graduate student, a freshman, etc.
Retention numbers for last decade.
Last year's freshmen returning in 2010 81.5%
in 2009 82.9%
in 2008 84.7%
in 2007 84.9%
in 2006 81.3%
in 2005 84%
in 2004 85.9%
in 2003 86.2%
in 2002 88%
in 2001 86%
in 2000 82.5%
in 1999 86%
all i can do is speculate on this, especially since i'm no longer on campus. in many cases, the friends that i have that transferred out (which honestly isn't many) wanted a more focused degree program in an area where valpo may be a bit lacking. others had res life issues, or just decided that a small, religiously affiliated university really wasn't for them. but many times they've told me that it's a combination of factors together that ultimately result in their departure from valpo.
one number that counteracts this possible lack of retention is the incoming transfers. i know people that came in as sophomores and even a couple as juniors because the programs they wanted were stronger and/or had better opportunities than their original schools.
Living in Brandt my FR year, it seemed a lot of people in that building were from areas far outside the midwest. I had people on my floor from my state, Louisiana, NY, MD, FL, etc, not many IN/IL/MI/WI/MN. The main reason they left is that they got homesick. This could be a problem if we are going to concentrate on areas outside of the midwest to grow our enrollment.
Quote from: valpotx on October 05, 2011, 01:49:22 AM
Living in Brandt my FR year, it seemed a lot of people in that building were from areas far outside the midwest. I had people on my floor from my state, Louisiana, NY, MD, FL, etc, not many IN/IL/MI/WI/MN. The main reason they left is that they got homesick. This could be a problem if we are going to concentrate on areas outside of the midwest to grow our enrollment.
You've hit on the isssue. The midwest population is shrinking and the south is growing. If we are to maintain/grow our student numbers, over time, we simply have to reachout further than we do now. Sure we have students from most if not all states and from over 50 countries, but the majority (36% from Indiana alone) still come from the midwest.
Quote from: valpotx on October 05, 2011, 01:49:22 AM
Living in Brandt my FR year, it seemed a lot of people in that building were from areas far outside the midwest. I had people on my floor from my state, Louisiana, NY, MD, FL, etc, not many IN/IL/MI/WI/MN. The main reason they left is that they got homesick. This could be a problem if we are going to concentrate on areas outside of the midwest to grow our enrollment.
When I was a student, this was especially true in Brandt, because Brandt was one of the only dorms that stayed open during university closures (Christmas? Thanksgiving?). So, if you weren't able to go home, it's the dorm you wanted to be in.
As far as I've heard, one of the main recruiting pushes to increase enrollment _will_ be the core Great Lakes (or Midwest?) region: maybe even more specifically Indiana, Illinois, and maybe one or two others (Michigan?). If anything, I was a little disappointed to hear it - finding possibly more appeal in a national student body. But, it may be a sound strategy. Another significant push, indeed, will be international students. For example, I hear a little about a potentially large cooperative project with an Indian institution - I've not heard much detail.
About 50 countries being represented in the student body, is that accurate? I thought I just recently saw some numbers that put it at 17. I guess, maybe, that could have been just the freshman class. But, 50 would be quite a lot! Since we have significant populations from a few individual countries like China.
Quote from: agibson on October 05, 2011, 10:36:15 AM
Quote from: valpotx on October 05, 2011, 01:49:22 AM
Living in Brandt my FR year, it seemed a lot of people in that building were from areas far outside the midwest. I had people on my floor from my state, Louisiana, NY, MD, FL, etc, not many IN/IL/MI/WI/MN. The main reason they left is that they got homesick. This could be a problem if we are going to concentrate on areas outside of the midwest to grow our enrollment.
When I was a student, this was especially true in Brandt, because Brandt was one of the only dorms that stayed open during university closures (Christmas? Thanksgiving?). So, if you weren't able to go home, it's the dorm you wanted to be in.
As far as I've heard, one of the main recruiting pushes to increase enrollment _will_ be the core Great Lakes (or Midwest?) region: maybe even more specifically Indiana, Illinois, and maybe one or two others (Michigan?). If anything, I was a little disappointed to hear it - finding possibly more appeal in a national student body. But, it may be a sound strategy. Another significant push, indeed, will be international students. For example, I hear a little about a potentially large cooperative project with an Indian institution - I've not heard much detail.
About 50 countries being represented in the student body, is that accurate? I thought I just recently saw some numbers that put it at 17. I guess, maybe, that could have been just the freshman class. But, 50 would be quite a lot! Since we have significant populations from a few individual countries like China.
The seventeen number is from last year's freshman class. Overall it is 50 plus.
This is from the Valpo site:
About Valpo
Valparaiso University continues a legacy of quality education that extends throughout a proud history of more than 150 years. And at Valpo, a student's personal journey extends beyond classrooms and books.
A focus on learning through service and emphasis on broadening experiences help Valpo students develop into thoughtful leaders who work to make the world a better place.
Valparaiso University enrolls about 4,000 students from most states and more than 50 countries, constituting an international, interconnected community. Valpo offers five colleges for undergraduates — the College of Arts and Sciences, College of Engineering, College of Business Administration, College of Nursing, and Christ College (honors college) — as well as graduate studies and a law school.
Valparaiso University is an independent Lutheran institution that provides an encouraging environment for spiritual exploration by all.
The modern Harre Union (opened in 2009) and Christopher Center for Library and Information Resources (2004), and the historic Chapel of the Resurrection form the heart of campus.
Our athletics teams compete at the Division I level. Valpo's proudest sports moment is advancing to the Sweet 16 in the 1998 men's basketball NCAA tournament.
We're located in Valparaiso, Indiana, a city of 31,000 people, in Northwest Indiana just an hour east of Chicago.
There's much more to Valpo than can be described here. Explore the website, and to truly get to know us, plan a visit to campus soon.
Believe me, there is a national push for students, but they are going to start out in the 5 state Midwest region plus Minnesota mostly. I would bet that our Midwest representation goes down in the next decade or so, which I think is a positive thing. One of the biggest obstacles to recruiting south of here is you guessed it: winter.
Quote from: okinawatyphoon on October 05, 2011, 06:04:46 PM
Believe me, there is a national push for students, but they are going to start out in the 5 state Midwest region plus Minnesota mostly. I would bet that our Midwest representation goes down in the next decade or so, which I think is a positive thing. One of the biggest obstacles to recruiting south of here is you guessed it: winter.
cold/snow sucks ;)
I actually enjoyed the respite from 100+ degree heat and playing snow football :)
So they want to keep enrollment centered on the Horizon League states and Minnesota, before expanding out further? I like the idea, although you have some kids from the Dakotas and other places that will still come to Valpo because family went here, or they want to expand their horizons away from what they know.
Based on the meeting in Dallas, Pres. Heckler stated that yes, the core would still be Midwest, but the university will have to gain a much larger foothold in the Southern states, as well as international students to sustain our goal of 6,000 students. As mentioned by another poster, Midwestern populations are unfortunately shrinking, while the South is exploding, so it only makes sense that we would have to reach out more.
The admission website has been completely revamped, and I think the numbers are updated. http://www.valpo.edu/admission (http://www.valpo.edu/admission)
They don't present as many figures as they have before (maybe they just aren't ready yet), but the SAT/ACT scores stayed about the same, but the average GPA of the incoming students went from a 3.52 to a 3.63, a marked increase. Hopefully more numbers will be released soon.
The registrar's stat page at
http://www.valpo.edu/registrar/statistics.php (http://www.valpo.edu/registrar/statistics.php)
isn't yet updated.
But, that looks like a somewhat longer, bureaucratic process. It seems like some standardized report they submit to some body, etc. I'm sure it's in the works.
Quote from: valpotx on October 06, 2011, 09:38:23 AM
Based on the meeting in Dallas, Pres. Heckler stated that yes, the core would still be Midwest, but the university will have to gain a much larger foothold in the Southern states, as well as international students to sustain our goal of 6,000 students. As mentioned by another poster, Midwestern populations are unfortunately shrinking, while the South is exploding, so it only makes sense that we would have to reach out more.
I will be curious to see what Valpo does in the next years with Hispanic students - certainly a powerful demographic trend in the US. And, perhaps, especially in the South.
Yes, I forgot that he also mentioned they would need to concentrate on the Hispanic population in full to obtain their goals.
Quote from: agibson on October 01, 2011, 12:15:34 PM
Quote from: valpopal on September 30, 2011, 03:08:23 PM
Perhaps final numbers will be available after October 10, which is the deadline for withdrawing from the university and still receiving partial refund.
I believe that they're done taking data, but are still processing it. Who knows - I didn't get into all the details.
The final figures are now in. The enrollment this semester is surprisingly less than expected and somewhat lower than last year. I have seen the exact numbers, but I don't feel at liberty to reveal them until they are announced publicly. My take: obviously, due to the economy, this is a tough environment for drawing students to an expensive university like Valpo.
Interesting. This is at odds with the reports based on preliminary figures. I'll be curious to see the numbers.
Quote from: valpotx on October 06, 2011, 09:38:23 AM
Based on the meeting in Dallas, Pres. Heckler stated that yes, the core would still be Midwest, but the university will have to gain a much larger foothold in the Southern states, as well as international students to sustain our goal of 6,000 students. As mentioned by another poster, Midwestern populations are unfortunately shrinking, while the South is exploding, so it only makes sense that we would have to reach out more.
I hate to pour cold water on the whole enrollment increase initiative, but increasing enrollment by 50% is possibly the most unrealistic goal I've ever hear of. Quantum leaps like this simply do not occur anywhere in the business world (and VU is a business) short of blowing up the current business model and basically starting over. Indiana Wesleyan did it several years ago by getting into accelerated degree programs and establishing satellite facilities across the state. Now their accelerated enrollment is much higher than their on campus enrollment and they have a constant revenue stream. Accelerated programs remain very popular, but everyone and their brother are now into that market. Other than something like that, I don't see any possibility of making any significant enrollment gains in today's economy, which is expected to remain in a downturn for several years.
I think there are plans to open satellite facilities in Chicago and possibly overseas as well. Don't have a clear idea where the projected increases are going to come from but they are clearly not just undergrad. Expect to see new graduate programs and a growth in the law school.
I would wait for the admission numbers. I have received conflicting information so we'll just have to wait I think. As far as the increases in students, they are banking on a large increase in international students as well as traditional undergrad. Is it unrealistic? Maybe now, with the (again) weakness in the economy.
QuoteI think there are plans to open satellite facilities in Chicago and possibly overseas as well. Don't have a clear idea where the projected increases are going to come from but they are clearly not just undergrad. Expect to see new graduate programs and a growth in the law school.
Unfortunately that's the kind of growth that I don't want to see. Opening up satellite campuses is the kind of thing that cheapens a Valpo degree.
The law school is 4th tier as is. Expanding enrollment there means that you're allowing more kids in with lower LSAT scores and graduating more kids with huge amounts of debt and no job prospects.
The only way I see Valpo really increasing their enrollment numbers is to really jack up the number of foreign students.
MJ: I agree with you relative to the the VU Law School rep.,or lack thereof. US News listings of law schools does not include Valpo among its top 143 schools. Hell, we are unrated and yet it costs appx. $35K,not including R& B,to attend VU Law. Not a good investment.Overall,IMO, our pathetic athletic program must turn off some prospective students. Hell, we have the worst football team in the country (#246) and we are dead last in the McCafferty trophy standings and no better than #4 in Reg. U. academic rankings. So,why choose Valpo?
Quote from: setshot on October 12, 2011, 06:36:50 PM
MJ: I agree with you relative to the the VU Law School rep.,or lack thereof. US News listings of law schools does not include Valpo among its top 143 schools. Hell, we are unrated and yet it costs appx. $35K,not including R& B,to attend VU Law. Not a good investment.Overall,IMO, our pathetic athletic program must turn off some prospective students. Hell, we have the worst football team in the country (#246) and we are dead last in the McCafferty trophy standings and no better than #4 in Reg. U. academic rankings. So,why choose Valpo?
A more logical question might be: with your low opinion as to the Valpo experience and value, why do you choose to post here??
Quote from: setshot on October 12, 2011, 06:36:50 PM
MJ: I agree with you relative to the the VU Law School rep.,or lack thereof. US News listings of law schools does not include Valpo among its top 143 schools. Hell, we are unrated and yet it costs appx. $35K,not including R& B,to attend VU Law. Not a good investment.Overall,IMO, our pathetic athletic program must turn off some prospective students. Hell, we have the worst football team in the country (#246) and we are dead last in the McCafferty trophy standings and no better than #4 in Reg. U. academic rankings. So,why choose Valpo?
My son just graduated from VU Law School in May. I have no idea how law school rankings are determined, and frankly I don't care. He has a great job with a great future. His employer is paying the debt he accumulated, so what more can one ask than that? He is a proud VU alum, and I am proud of him.
My girlfriend is an Attorney down here and thinks highly of a VU law degree despite that report. She has met a few VU law people that do well for themselves, even though she went to school in Houston.
Perhaps there is one source that ranked the law school "fourth tier" but there are other rankings. Here's one that has us in the top 100. Notice that the "second tier", of which we are one, is listed in alphabetical order. Thus, we could be at the very top of that list, who knows.
http://www.lawschool100.com/ (http://www.lawschool100.com/)
I think much of the rankings have to do with location. Being in a small town in the mid-west may make it difficult to be recruited by a top firm in LA for example. Still, I know three lawyers here in Minneapolis that are Valpo Law grads. All work at the best and biggest firms and are "super lawyers". I saw another ranking done by "super lawyers" as to where they went to school. Valpo ranked 151 in this ranking. Again, with many law grads working at small firms in small towns it becomes impossible to be ranked in this category.
Let's take a look at the faculty. Surely top school grads wouldn't want to teach at Valpo would they? And if they did, could their teaching be any good? You decide.
Half of the forty full time faculty received the JD's from a law school ranked in the top 25, including 2 from the University of Chicago, 3 from Yale, 3 from NYU, 2 from Harvard, 1 from Columbia, 1 from Virginia and 1 from UCLA, 1 from Cornell, and 3 from Wisconsin and many other fine schools.
Sure looks like a "fourth Tier" faculty to me!!
I graduated from Drake Law School here in Des Moines in 1981. Drake, like VU, does not fare particularly well in these rankings. Yet Drake has, in many Iowa circles, as good a reputation as the University of Iowa. I think these law school rankings are pretty silly. Not once -- repeat, not once -- in 30 years of law practice have any lawyers that I know ever mentioned law school rankings. No one cares.
VU has, from what I've heard, a good law school. It is well respected in the profession.
Let's not get all discouraged on what may be disappointing admission numbers for this year. There are plenty of other things going on at VU for which we can be most thankful.
Paul
I can believe that many practicing attorneys don't put much stock in law school rankings. Surely, you personal experience with a particular attorney's far more relevant. Perhaps your past experience with several grads from a particular university is also more relevant.
But, I can also believe that many "top" firms, looking for the "best of the best", _do_ put some stock in these rankings. Of course, the world's much bigger than the so-called "top".
From informal discussion with a buddy who's a dean at a top-20 law school, the law schools themselves (at least the ones who want to think of themselves as near the "top", or aspiring to be) _do_ care a lot about the rankings. And work hard to engineer their way to the top. (And, lawyer's are pretty good at gaming systems...)
Heck, everyone loves to talk about how numerical rankings, whether they be US News, or SAT/ACT/LSAT scores, etc. are shallow, biased, not very informative, etc, etc. But, most everyone is happy to trumpet when they come out on top. And, we've had plenty of discussions on this board about Valpo's position in the US News regional university rankings, and many others. These things are far from the end-all and be-all. But, people do give them weight.
I have heard that the final enrollment number are several hundred less than expected. Can anyone verify this information?
Quote from: setshot on October 21, 2011, 03:12:48 PM
I have heard that the final enrollment number are several hundred less than expected. Can anyone verify this information?
I certainly hope you are wrong. Even 100 students could mean a budget shortfall of $5 Million. "Several" hundred would be a financial disaster of monumental proportions.
Quote from: setshot on October 21, 2011, 03:12:48 PM
I have heard that the final enrollment number are several hundred less than expected. Can anyone verify this information?
Quote from: wh on October 21, 2011, 06:19:40 PM
Quote from: setshot on October 21, 2011, 03:12:48 PM
I have heard that the final enrollment number are several hundred less than expected. Can anyone verify this information?
I certainly hope you are wrong. Even 100 students could mean a budget shortfall of $5 Million. "Several" hundred would be a financial disaster of monumental proportions.
There are different numbers for varying measurements. Comparing this year's enrollment to last year's real enrollment, the numbers were down significantly, close to WH's number: comparing the student population to the total dream enrollment that was targeted and desired by admissions last spring for a larger student body this year, the estimate of the shortfall from that imagined figure begins to approach but doesn't reach Setshot's number.
I've still not seen any hard numbers.
Quote from: agibson on October 22, 2011, 02:19:28 PM
I've still not seen any hard numbers.
The comments I made above are based upon the hard numbers, which I have seen and which were quite disappointing, especially considering the optimistic preliminary projections I'd heard during the summer.
Though I believe external conditions, particularly a very poor economy, are mostly responsible, perhaps the following announcement of a recent hiring of a Vice President for Enrollment Management, who began his job last Monday, is a good step forward and will help move admissions in the right direction again. However, I am not sure the extent of influence he will have over this year's recruitment of students since the process is already at the stage of sending out early acceptances, many of which have been mailed.
The announcement:
"Michael Joseph, an experienced higher education administrator and enrollment strategist, has been appointed to join Valparaiso University's senior leadership team as vice president for enrollment management beginning October 17. As the chief enrollment officer, Michael will lead the development and oversee the execution of the University's comprehensive enrollment management plan. Joseph will work closely with the University's senior leadership team to provide the vision, strategy and operational processes and direction necessary to deliver the University's growth objectives. The University's Strategic Plan calls for Valpo to grow to 6,000 students by 2015 from the current 4,100."
From what I've heard Brad Bradshaw, who held this position most recently, and came to us from St. Louis University, decided to return to St. Louis for family reasons.
Mr. Joseph comes with a very high academic reputation as he was the Senior Vice President (number 2 person) at University of Detroit and previously served as interim President of UD.
I've had some vague unease about the new VP hire, out of concern that they've recruited someone to try to implement an existing plan. In general terms, I don't know much of anything about him individually. But, they found someone who's on-board (or who feels constrained to be on-board, perhaps) with a very ambitious plan to increase enrollment. And, in principle, we're in year two of that five-year plan.
We'll see. I don't want to rain too much on ambitious, even exciting, proposals.
Didn't know where to put this so I'm posting it here! Here are the stats from this year's law school class. Very interesting and impressive group. Valpo's law school must have something good to offer! :o
http://www.valpo.edu/law/admissions/enteringclass-profile.php (http://www.valpo.edu/law/admissions/enteringclass-profile.php)
Quote from: agibson on October 24, 2011, 10:46:32 AM
I've had some vague unease about the new VP hire, out of concern that they've recruited someone to try to implement an existing plan. In general terms, I don't know much of anything about him individually. But, they found someone who's on-board (or who feels constrained to be on-board, perhaps) with a very ambitious plan to increase enrollment. And, in principle, we're in year two of that five-year plan.
We'll see. I don't want to rain too much on ambitious, even exciting, proposals.
PNC's enrollment increased by 14% from 2010 to 2011, an all-time record.
http://www.valpolife.com/index.php/community/education/13607 (http://www.valpolife.com/index.php/community/education/13607)
This is a good example of inverse proportionality. The economy falls off the cliff and PNC becomes an economic substitute for more expensive college options, as well as a popular option for non-traditional students doing something productive while waiting for the job market to improve.
PNC is to the college experience as Ponderosa is to the dining experience - decent food, lots of variety, reasonable price. Valpo, on the other hand, is a Ruth's Chris - an excellent quality, fine dining experience at a top dollar price. Restaurants like Ruth's Chris thrive when the economy is strong. Ruth's closed the day at $4.94/share, compared to their 52-week high of $7.10. In today's market and economy, the last thing Ruth's would roll out is a 5-year plan to increase the number of Ruth's Chris Restaurants by 50%.
I just shake my head at the lack of business sense shown by university administrators. Universities should be run by bright, savy business CEO's, not former educators.
Quote from: wh on October 27, 2011, 09:50:26 PM
Quote from: agibson on October 24, 2011, 10:46:32 AM
I've had some vague unease about the new VP hire, out of concern that they've recruited someone to try to implement an existing plan. In general terms, I don't know much of anything about him individually. But, they found someone who's on-board (or who feels constrained to be on-board, perhaps) with a very ambitious plan to increase enrollment. And, in principle, we're in year two of that five-year plan.
We'll see. I don't want to rain too much on ambitious, even exciting, proposals.
PNC's enrollment increased by 14% from 2010 to 2011, an all-time record.
http://www.valpolife.com/index.php/community/education/13607 (http://www.valpolife.com/index.php/community/education/13607)
This is a good example of inverse proportionality. The economy falls off the cliff and PNC becomes an economic substitute for more expensive college options, as well as a popular option for non-traditional students doing something productive while waiting for the job market to improve.
PNC is to the college experience as Ponderosa is to the dining experience - decent food, lots of variety, reasonable price. Valpo, on the other hand, is a Ruth's Chris - an excellent quality, fine dining experience at a top dollar price. Restaurants like Ruth's Chris thrive when the economy is strong. Ruth's closed the day at $4.94/share, compared to their 52-week high of $7.10. In today's market and economy, the last thing Ruth's would roll out is a 5-year plan to increase the number of Ruth's Chris Restaurants by 50%.
I just shake my head at the lack of business sense shown by university administrators. Universities should be run by bright, savy business CEO's, not former educators.
I think there may be a misconception as to what expansion will entail. Basicly, what President Heckler is saying is that there are many areas of study that could add students without diluting the student to faculty ratio in any meaningful way. Second, Valpo could add a bunch of students without any need to expand dorms etc. If all the rooms were filled, there would be an entire dorm empty at this point. I think the effort is in expanded recruiting and publicity at this point, rather than investing millions in the hope more students will show up.
As you can see from this video, the population of international students exists as one of the areas where enrollment will grow. The video also gives a great profile of the VU campus and region:
International student life at Valparaiso University (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaqiafLIHm0#ws)
Quote from: valpopal on November 01, 2011, 11:40:24 AM
As you can see from this video, the population of international students exists as one of the areas where enrollment will grow. The video also gives a great profile of the VU campus and region:
International student life at Valparaiso University (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaqiafLIHm0#ws)
More cultural diversity will bring with it more students of religions other than Christianity. Is Valpo ready for this:
The complaint, filed with the D.C. Office of Human Rights, alleges that Catholic University discriminates against Muslims by not allowing them to form a group devoted to Muslim worship. The university has a policy of not allowing official status to non-Catholic worship groups.It appears from the VU website that the only student religious organizations are Christian-based (after all it is a Christian school). Given time, there will be "in your face" demands for religious equality made by agenda-laden zealots working behind the scenes on behalf of "tolerance" and "understanding" and "acceptance" and all the PC buzzwords that they themselves never practice. Just my opinion.
There are, if memory serves, Muslim and Busdhist groups meeting on campus. As well as a variety of Christian groups from various sects. I forget the current name, but something like a Muslim student association has long been active on campus and is, presumably, "official".
So, no, I don't think we'll have any problems like Catholic University.
As long as we aren't made to change our mascot just because we are the 'Crusaders,' there is no issue with having other groups on campus. While it is a private Lutheran university, it is only fair that other religions can have their own groups to meet, as long as it doesn't change the mission of the school. I couldn't get over the calls to change our nickname when I was in school, as it is simply for athletic purposes, we are not condoning the Crusades!
I know this is my first post, so take it as you will, but I am a current student with connections that I don't feel comfortable with disclosing. From the data I got, undergraduate admission decreased from last year to this year. Not sure on overall admission.
Hopefully the University will release the actual numbers soon.
With the economy being what it is, and many students not willing to take on so much debt to attend college, when the job prospects aren't jumping out there for college grads, having a decrease in admission wouldn't be a complete and total shock at a school like Valpo. Some of the searching college students are paying attention to cost, scholarships, grants, awards that they can get before they look at loan offers from schools, but not all of these can continue to help as frequently as before. If admission numbers are down, they are down, and until the economy picks up again, we'll just have to realize that students do want to attend Valpo, but the tuition and fees may not match what kind of available funding they have.
It's official: enrollment decreased from last year to this year in both total students, undergrad students, and grad students.
2827 undergraduates, 1137 graduate students, 3964 total for the 2011-12 year
2872 undergraduates, 1184 graduate students, 4056 total for the 2010-11 year
For some reason it's not letting me post external links, but the 2011-12 numbers are up on the link posted earlier in the thread.
Thoughts? I know you guys talked about the consequences of this potentially happening, but now that it's a reality, where does the University go from here? Is it realistic to drastically increase enrollment?
A little surprising. They have recently hired a new VP of enrollment Management so hopefully that will help. As to growth, nothing will be drastic but rather gradual. There is the room for the addeds students and it just makes sense economically to maximize capacity.
Quote from: crusader1897 on December 08, 2011, 02:52:21 AM
It's official: enrollment decreased from last year to this year in both total students, undergrad students, and grad students.
2827 undergraduates, 1137 graduate students, 3964 total for the 2011-12 year
2872 undergraduates, 1184 graduate students, 4056 total for the 2010-11 year
For some reason it's not letting me post external links, but the 2011-12 numbers are up on the link posted earlier in the thread.
Thoughts? I know you guys talked about the consequences of this potentially happening, but now that it's a reality, where does the University go from here? Is it realistic to drastically increase enrollment?
These reflect the numbers I was given back in October when I said "there are different numbers for varying measurements." As I posted then, the actual decrease was close to 100, though the shortfall from expectations of an increase was a couple of hundred. However, I am told early indications are to expect a bit of a rebound in the upcoming year, though again expectations must be matched by actual numbers.
crusader1897, the forum admins made it so that new posters can't put in external links until they've posted five times, so as to counteract spammers, but thanks for the numbers. To be honest, the decrease isn't as drastic in terms of enrollment population as it is to money coming in to pay faculty, staff, and the other bills. Hopefully this economy will get back on the straight and narrow, and student loans programs won't be as risky/complicated for those that hold off from going to schools like Valpo that can challenge the areas of their intelligence that public high schools didn't touch, because they don't want the loan payments later.
Here is a piece in today's Campus Chronicle:
New Vice President of Enrollment Management Michael Joseph is expecting great growth in the future for Valparaiso University. With a strong tradition and structure in place, there is a unified belief across campus that the goals set are achievable, he said.
"Valpo is a place primed for the kind of growth that it's identified in its strategic plan," Joseph said. "We need to see that growth realized this coming fall and then use that as a platform to continue to grow."
The goal set forth in the Strategic Plan is to increase enrollment from 4,000 to 6,000 in five years. This goal is only achievable if everyone on campus is involved in the recruitment process, because students want to go to a place where they're wanted, Joseph said. He said that along with an intimate setting, beautiful campus, and great mix of programs, there is still a desire for students to have a personal touch when they are deciding on where to attend college. Professors providing opportunities to sit in on classes, contacting students and answering questions are positive influences on prospective students and their parents.
"We are receiving record numbers of high-quality inquires and applicants," Joseph said. "Now it's a matter of making sure that we are more deliberate about the effort it takes to actually enroll a student as well as retaining those students at a higher level."
Retention begins with who the University is recruiting, how those students are recruited, and who enrolls at Valpo. Focusing on retention after freshman and sophomore year is also important to maintaining the right mix in enrollment.
In this economy, affordability is a top priority for many potential students, Joseph said. Alumni-funded scholarships are crucial to keeping Valpo affordable and the top choice on a student's list.
"For a place like Valpo, alumni networks are important," Joseph said. "The number of legacies and alumni connections is the largest I've seen anywhere I've been, and that speaks well for our history and tradition. It's different in many ways from when our alumni attended, but the core values have not changed."
Joseph wants to see the international enrollment rates grow along with the overall enrollment rates. With alumni networks spreading the message of Valpo across the world, this goal is achievable, he said.
Thanks for the above info, valpopal. It is a bit disappointing that the numbers are down, but not unexpected. I believe we are outperforming our peer schools, IE Butler and others. At least the academic quality of students continues to increase.
I really hope that we are able to obtain the 6k mark in 5 years, but not sure how possible that is. The extra students would definitely benefit the university as a whole in $$
I hope that we can hit the 6k student mark in 5 years as well. The quality of incoming students needs to stay the same or increase. The quality of education will also need to stay the same. Increasing the faculty with quality and experienced professors will be a challenge. Also, an increase of nearly 50% in students will put pressure on the infrastructure: housing, parking, food, classrooms (both size and quantity), support staff, the overall Valpo community, etc. I'm sure they are thinking of these things, just not sure what the plan is going to entail.
An admission counselor friend of mine posted a few weeks ago on Facebook that the Spring class (this semester) is one of (if not THE) largest in history.
Quote from: okinawatyphoon on March 27, 2012, 12:21:51 PM
An admission counselor friend of mine posted a few weeks ago on Facebook that the Spring class (this semester) is one of (if not THE) largest in history.
Information I have received indicates Valpo can expect a spike in undergraduate and graduate admissions for the fall semester.
I sure hope so! What was the ideal year that we should be up to 6k students?
Seeing some of the data as it's come in, I think it's too soon for me to say. The numbers have been... moderately encouraging? But some policy changes make them perhaps a little difficult to interpret. I don't have enough experience with the calendar to know when the picture will be relatively clear.
This whole push to go to 6K students just baffles me. Now if we were adding graduate and doctoral programs to get to that size it might be another story (see Wake Forest). But having an undergraduate enrollment of under 3000 and a total enrollment of around 4000 adding an additional 50% to the size of the school would change our demographics considerably. Imagine class sizes increasing by 50% when you are known for your faculty to student ratio. What would have to happen to admission standards in order to accept 50% more students. Grow the endowment rather than add 50% to the student population if you are worried about future viability. Despite their HUGE increase in applications (as mentioned in other threads on this forum) since the 2 NCAA BB runs I haven't seen anything from Butler saying that they want to go from a little over 4K to 6K.
Quote from: FWalum on March 28, 2012, 12:26:17 PM
Imagine class sizes increasing by 50% when you are known for your faculty to student ratio. What would have to happen to admission standards in order to accept 50% more students.
The idea is that the size of the faculty increases along with the student body. Probably trailing student trends, slightly.
The claim is that we can do this while also _raising_, or at least holding steady, the quality of our entering classes, our admission standards, etc.
QuoteThe claim is that we can do this while also _raising_, or at least holding steady, the quality of our entering classes, our admission standards, etc.
Unfortunately I can't believe that claim. What's causing more talented students to suddenly want to go to Valpo? The union? The new ad campaign? The new Crusader? There have been some great changes to the University but are they enough to suddenly attract large numbers of high quality students?
Valpo already had a pretty high acceptance rate. I assume now they'll just admit anyone who applies. It's nothing new to have colleges fudge statistics (see law school employment rates), so it wouldn't surprise me if Valpo massaged the numbers to make it appear better than it really is.
I graduated from Valpo 4 years ago and my brother graduated last year. We both love dear old Valpo, but at the same time we recognized that for all the hype Valpo gets for being a great academic school, Valpo also admits some no-so-smart students. In fact, I remember Heckler saying that Valpo should be ready to admit students who weren't ready for college but could then take remedial classes their first year.
It is possible to increase students quickly and increase standards at the same time. Is it easy? Of course not, but it is possible with a great team, dedication from the admissions staff and administration, and commitment of resources. We've also had the discussion of acceptance rates before. On paper, Valpo has a higher acceptance rate than many schools ranked lower than it. As it turns out, many low-quality students (academically) choose not to apply to Valpo at all, leaving the admissions office with mostly quality students to choose from. When you have droves of students with poor grades and test scores applying to a school, then sure, its acceptance rate is bound to be a bit lower.
Quote from: FWalum on March 28, 2012, 12:26:17 PM
This whole push to go to 6K students just baffles me. Now if we were adding graduate and doctoral programs to get to that size it might be another story (see Wake Forest). But having an undergraduate enrollment of under 3000 and a total enrollment of around 4000 adding an additional 50% to the size of the school would change our demographics considerably. Imagine class sizes increasing by 50% when you are known for your faculty to student ratio. What would have to happen to admission standards in order to accept 50% more students. Grow the endowment rather than add 50% to the student population if you are worried about future viability. Despite their HUGE increase in applications (as mentioned in other threads on this forum) since the 2 NCAA BB runs I haven't seen anything from Butler saying that they want to go from a little over 4K to 6K.
First, let's take a look at the goal: right now we have 3000 undergrads and 1000 in grad/law school. The goal is to go to 4000 undergrad and 2000 grad/law students. Heckler has said that if we actually filled up every bed we would have an entire dorm empty--with our current enrollment. That means we have excess capacity--housing wise. I'm also told that many majors are not near capacity which means we can selectively add students without dropping student/faculty ratios. Finally, there have been several major improvements that add to capacity capabilities. First, there is the union, necessary to feed more people. Next there is the new Arts and Science's building, capable to hold more classes. Third there is the 13 million dollar engineering addition, coupled with the solar furnace. Those two changes will make Valpo's engineering programs some of the finest in the country--which they were prior to these changes.
When we were in school there were no graduate programs other than the law school. Now there are master's programs in business, engineering, nursing and several art's and science's areas. There is even a doctoral program in nursing. These programs are growing at a good clip while gaining national recognition for them in the process.
Quote from: mj on March 28, 2012, 02:41:59 PMValpo already had a pretty high acceptance rate. I assume now they'll just admit anyone who applies. It's nothing new to have colleges fudge statistics (see law school employment rates), so it wouldn't surprise me if Valpo massaged the numbers to make it appear better than it really is.
So far, during their campaign to boost enrollment, average GPA and test scores have risen. I don't have good numbers at my finger tips for acceptance rates, but I don't think they've gone up. I see some signs that they've been _down_ last year and this year - but my numbers aren't the best. Of course, that (the acceptance rate) mostly means you're attracting more applications. It doesn't, by itself, say whether they're weaker or stronger.
And, of course, we haven't yet seen a jump in enrollment.
due to the economy, it's not a terrible surprise that the jump hasn't come yet. it's hard to shell out the serious coin that it costs to go to a more expensive school. my brother had his sights set on going to auburn in the fall, but lack of scholarship money from the school and lack of additional help through fafsa led to him changing his mind in favor of a public school costing half the price.
OK......so are they are any "apples to apples" comparisons yet between 2011-2012 and next Fall (2012-2013) ?
Some of you seem to have ties to the admissions office, so how does next Fall compare to last in number of applications and number of deposits?
Obviously, those don't predict with high accuracy because more and more students seem to put down deposits at multiple schools to hedge their bets. Who wouldn't put a couple hundred into deposits when you are making a $50,000 to $100,000+ investment (depending on financial aid level). But the benchmark #s above might provide a hint.
I'm doing a college fair for Valpo next week and just received the stats for Valpo students for the 2011-12 class (last year's)
6500 applications/4400 accepted, 700 enrolled
46/54 male to female
32% Lutheran 25% Catholic
36% from Indiana
enrolled from most states and 59 foreign countries/ 3% international
SAT midrange 1470-1800
ACT " 23-29
Average High School GPA 3.64/4.00
34% in top 10% of class
Total Cost (tuition, room, board etc) $39,796
25% Greeks
I'm pretty sure these numbers have improved with this incoming class.
A few things strike me in looking at this profile information and comparing it to what I remember from a few years ago and what I remember from data published in US News: the percentage of males has declined (49-51 percent not long ago), the number of Lutherans has declined (from 39 percent), the number from Indiana may be up slightly (from 33-34 percent). The quality of the class is about what I remember although the percentage from the top 10 percent of their hs classes seems smaller. Test scores, Greek membership, etc. seems about the same.
Quote from: vu72 on September 26, 2012, 08:56:58 AM
I'm doing a college fair for Valpo next week and just received the stats for Valpo students for the 2011-12 class (last year's)
6500 applications/4400 accepted, 700 enrolled
46/54 male to female
32% Lutheran 25% Catholic
36% from Indiana
enrolled from most states and 59 foreign countries/ 3% international
SAT midrange 1470-1800
ACT " 23-29
Average High School GPA 3.64/4.00
34% in top 10% of class
Total Cost (tuition, room, board etc) $39,796
25% Greeks
I'm pretty sure these numbers have improved with this incoming class.
Your information seems just a bit incomplete. The 700 enrollment number does not include about 170 incoming transfer students last year, for a total of 870.
This year's total enrollment is close to 1,020 -- more than 800 first-year students and more than 200 transfers. I believe the application figure for this year was closer to 7,200 (4,700 accepted). The academic scores for this year's class are a bit higher than last year, and the percentage of males to females has been reversed this year (53% male -- 47% female). In addition, the incoming minority and international student population increased by 33% this year. These figures are for undergraduates and do not include a large growth of the graduate program. All in all, the VU admissions people did an excellent job this year.
http://posttrib.suntimes.com/15293502-537/nwi-campus-enrollment-on-the-rise.html (http://posttrib.suntimes.com/15293502-537/nwi-campus-enrollment-on-the-rise.html)
This has some of the stats on the newest class (and more) that valpopal just beat me to. If it hadn't taken so long to find it again... ;)
Hopefully they reverse that trend in male/female ratio lol. I remember that in considering baseball programs, that did factor into my decision :)
Quote from: valpotx on September 26, 2012, 04:06:51 PM
Hopefully they reverse that trend in male/female ratio lol. I remember that in considering baseball programs, that did factor into my decision :)
I don't know... as a college bound male, having more females than males wouldn't be a terrible thing! ;D
Quote from: valpo04 on September 27, 2012, 07:50:23 AM
Quote from: valpotx on September 26, 2012, 04:06:51 PM
Hopefully they reverse that trend in male/female ratio lol. I remember that in considering baseball programs, that did factor into my decision :)
I don't know... as a college bound male, having more females than males wouldn't be a terrible thing! ;D
I'm pretty sure he was talking about the most recent numbers and this quote from the Post-Trib article:
Another first at VU is the number of males in its freshman class outnumber women. Joseph said the
53 percent male freshman class represents a record. "It's the first time we've ever had more men than women." :o
Changes the supply/demand parameters in the dating scene :'(
Yes, I was speaking about the most recent percentages. I wouldn't have attended VU if it was 53% male :)