Can't believe we don't have a separate thread that follows Loyola in specific.
Vegas has them as 1 point dogs I believe vs. Kansas State. It looks like Vegas has learned that their spread is two or less in either direction. I have been telling my brother in law to pick them in each of the first three games after their performance in the prior one. I will never lie and say I had them going to the Sweet 16 in my bracket.
With KSU's win over Kentucky I did it again. Both teams are well coached. Loyola players just have a special ability to execute and stay disciplined. Can they dribble drive successfuly again?
Quote from: crusadermoe on March 24, 2018, 12:10:07 PMCan't believe we don't have a separate thread that follows Loyola in specific.
I would have done that long ago but every time it gets tried one of the moderators will hide it in "Around The Valley" or worse yet "Sports Talk" where they die slow deaths from lack of sunlight. :(. Now exactly who is this Loyola team you are talking about and what do they have to do with VU basketball? ::)
Just grates me to hear people call Loy-ola Lie-ola.
Quote from: justducky on March 24, 2018, 01:25:23 PM
Quote from: crusadermoe on March 24, 2018, 12:10:07 PMCan't believe we don't have a separate thread that follows Loyola in specific.
I would have done that long ago but every time it gets tried one of the moderators will hide it in "Around The Valley" or worse yet "Sports Talk" where they die slow deaths from lack of sunlight. :(. Now exactly who is this Loyola team you are talking about and what do they have to do with VU basketball? ::)
Like the MVC Coaching Changes page: http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=3120.msg98144#new
There is a reason many people don't start topics in that Around The Valley section and it's because it doesn't get much traffic. Less traffic makes for less quality discussion.
Kansas State is beatable. I'm glad Kansas State knocked Kentucky out with some red hot shooting. I'd be willing to bet if KSU played UK again it would be a different result. Kentucky's length and superior athletes would have been a bad matchup for Loyola.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 24, 2018, 04:15:39 PMKentucky's length and superior athletes would have been a bad matchup for Loyola.
I totally agree. Kentucky might have blown Loyola out but I doubt KSU will be able to.
Quote from: VU2014 on March 24, 2018, 04:11:27 PMThere is a reason many people don't start topics in that Around The Valley section and it's because it doesn't get much traffic. Less traffic makes for less quality discussion.
Maybe if crusadermoe changed the title to Loyola Elite Eight Puts Money In Our Pockets then we could completely ignore the money part and talk at length and without worry about Loyola basketball.
I had Loyola going to the sweet sixteen, but never envisioned them making the Elite Eight, or a 15 point lead in the second half of the Regional Final.
Great for them (and u$)!
Quote from: covufan on March 24, 2018, 06:30:11 PM
I had Loyola going to the sweet sixteen, but never envisioned them making the Elite Eight, or a 15 point lead in the second half of the Regional Final.
Great for them (and u$)!
Edit: a 21 point lead with 13 minutes left!
Congrats Loyola!!! Final 4!
Quote from: VU2014 on March 24, 2018, 07:39:16 PM
Congrats Loyola!!! Final 4!
They've now tied the mighty Wichita State for Final Four trips!
Time to update the thread title.
Pure class from Coach Musselman of Nevada. We should be thrilled and honored if we ever get a chance to play his team.
https://twitter.com/EricPMusselman/status/977702066075258880
This hurts to think about... Because it's true...
https://twitter.com/connerennis/status/976992171810279425
Also ahem....
https://twitter.com/chrisfallica/status/977700803480883200
Attention NCAA Selection Committee:
STOP
DISRESPECTING
THIS
CONFERENCE
And all mid majors in general...
Thank you for your time, your consideration, and (hopefully) your cooperation.
Warmest regards,
College basketball fans everywhere.
Just imagine the bump in admission applications that Loyola will get after this run! In the city of Chicago.
LOYOLA FINAL FOUR
I can't change the actual topic (only Moe can do that) but I can add a subtitle ;D
On a daily basis, I monitor the online versions of the following nationally recognized newspapers: Boston Globe, NY Times, Washington Post, USAToday. On every front page this morning the lead sports story prominently screamed LOYOLA CHICAGO. This could be Valpo in a couple of years. The university administration needs to understand this NOW, and act proactively to make that a reality in the near future. It could do wonders in terms of applications, enrollment, alumni financial support, increases to the endowment, and on and on.
First of all, congrats Loyola. Thought they had the ability to spring a few upsets...look at them go! What a ride!
This is exactly why they were selected to join the mvc the first time around. They were a sleeping giant but they were beginning to reinvest in their program. Chicago doesn't really have a #1 team and I'm not sure Loyola can be that, but they certainly are Chicago's team for at least this month. Before this weekend their bookstore sales were up 300%. The amount of press, number of applications, etc are going to be through the roof. Hopefully Loyola can keep porter Moser after all of this (who is only something like 113-110 there...)
Hopefully the people in charge at valpo are watching. This is why i was so excited when valpo joined the valley. this is a very real possibility for mvc teams and hopefully this gets them to reinvest in our program too.
Valpo could have done the same thing two years ago? LOL
No Valpo team has ever been as good as Loyola is this year. NEVER! Even in 98. If they were that good, they would have made it to the final four. No excuses.
Now Butler was that good, but not Valpo. Get real.
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 25, 2018, 08:20:23 AM
Valpo could have done the same thing two years ago? LOL
No Valpo team has ever been as good as Loyola is this year. NEVER! Even in 98. If they were that good, they would have made it to the final four. No excuses.
Now Butler was that good, but not Valpo. Get real.
thank you for saying this. we have a long way to go to ever get back to the ncaa tournament.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
Much like tournament bids, teams make the Final 4, conferences don't. I'm not trying to dump cold water on this run, because Loyola certainly deserves to be here, and I would have bet on them to win their last 2 games (pretty sure they were favored when the lines opened for last night's game), but a tournament run doesn't validate or invalidate a season's worth of results, or mean anything on a larger scale other than a team playing well at the right time, even though the vast majority of people react this way. What if Ingram had missed that last second 3 to beat Miami? Does that mean that mid-majors should get less bids? Does Syracuse getting to the Sweet 16 validate them getting into the tournament in the first place? I'd say no to both. That's the beauty and the awfulness of the tournament. The "best" team doesn't always win. UMBC beating Virginia doesn't mean they didn't deserve the #1 overall seed. Just that on that particular night, UMBC couldn't miss, Virginia panicked, and it was over.
It'll be interesting to see how the Ramblers play against Michigan, because the two teams are more similar to one another than they are different, but at this point, they could beat anyone and it wouldn't surprise.
What a tremendous performance by Loyola. Congrats as they go to the final 4 and I think they match well against Michigan, probably better than Florida State. This is great for Valpo in a financial matter, but my hope is that Valpo will improve and contribute in making the MVC conference great. Loyola's run is great for college basketball, the MVC, and college basketball in Chicagoland area which has truly underachieved in the past few decades.
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 25, 2018, 09:18:13 AM
What a tremendous performance by Loyola. Congrats as they go to the final 4 and I think they match well against Michigan, probably better than Florida State. This is great for Valpo in a financial matter, but my hope is that Valpo will improve and contribute in making the MVC conference great. Loyola's run is great for college basketball, the MVC, and college basketball in Chicagoland area which has truly underachieved in the past few decades.
FSU could have been an absolute nightmare for Loyola (length and blocking prowess) for a team so reliant on Points in the Paint these last games. Not to say they don't have shooters, because they do. But wow, I'm amazed at the physical specimens FSU put on the floor. Almost felt like the Oregon teams we played against during Alec's years.
I agree, but it seems that Florida State does not any offensive flow. I was not impressed with their big men. also, I was surprised they let the clock run out with 11 seconds to go being down 4 - I have seen some crazy turnarounds with that much time left.
Same Florida state program (not team) that came to the ARC and got beat up on?
Same Loyola program (not team) that we used to crush on annual basis in the HL?
We are not where we used to be but we can get back. It's all cyclical.
(Although we were never as good as Loyola is at this moment in time)
First, congratulations to Loyola. They have had great opportunities and have taken advantage of them. They have very good players, play together as a team and seem to have multiple leaders to solidify their team play. Furthermore, Moser has done a great job teaching team offense that can overcome teams with more talent.
Several people raised the question of whether Valpo has ever been this good. I would argue that in 1998 and 2016 they were as good as this Loyola team, just not as successful. There is a difference. Loyola has benefitted greatly from avoiding teams that could overwhelm them with both athleticism and talent. Loyola would seem to have a reasonable probability of beating Kentucky, Arizona, Cincinnati or Virginia - but it is pretty unlikely that they could win two or three games like that in a row. Either of those Valpo teams, faced with the opponents Loyola has, might have done the same thing. Of course, Loyola has taken advantage of every opportunity and been wildly successful.
We should also be reminded of the importance and loyalty in building a program. I did not know Moser's record at Loyola, but seeing that record indicates that Loyola is being rewarded for patience with someone who was taking time to develop something. We should probably all remember that when being critical of Coach Lottich.
Great comments on realities of VU's best teams. Loyola is more like the Butler teams (pre-Hayward) where they just outplayed and outworked and outpassed people. They drew a 7 seed and a 9 seed to reach the Final Four. Butler may have done that too had those seeds fallen to them.
I think Valpo has had some great players, but even the Grafs, Lubos team would break down and lose bad games. Loyola doesn't do that as they are too solid and smart like Butler was.
Just kudos to Loyola for now. And kudos with vindication for the MVC taking a shot on winning in the Chicago market through Loyola.
Lets hope Valpo can build a rivalry against Loyola and ride a brief wave of MVC recognition for its four Illinois teams and Valpo.
And.....you know my soapbox on adding SLU! Maybe Loyola's national recognition and success as a midwest catholic urban school finally smacks them in the head with the wisdom of joining now. The A-10 sent St. Bonaventure. Now there is a national brand!
Ok, that's the conference adds thread. Sorry.
Vu84v2 - I totally disagree and please be careful of drinking too much brown and gold kool aid. This Loyola team has better overall shoring, distributes the ball beautifully in a textbook fashion and prepared very well. I know this is blasphemous to say here, but they are better coached than a Drew team. Sure they were very fortunate to avoid Kentucky, Virginia and Cincinnati, bur they beat the SEC regular season champion, the WAC champion, and ACC and big 12 teams.
I can't speak for the 1998 team but I think 15-16 Valpo could have went on a similar type of tourney run had the seedings fallen in their favor the same way it has for Loyola this tourney run. The 17-18 Valpo team which tbh is one the worst Valpo teams in a while took Loyola down to the wire in their own building a few months ago and 15-16 team would absolutely obliterate the 17-18 Valpo team on almost any night.
In a hypothetical world it would be fun to watch the 15-16 Valpo team vs this Loyola team. It would be very competitive. Both squads are/were really good.
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 25, 2018, 03:35:30 PM
Vu84v2 - I totally disagree and please be careful of drinking too much brown and gold kool aid. This Loyola team has better overall shoring, distributes the ball beautifully in a textbook fashion and prepared very well. I know this is blasphemous to say here, but they are better coached than a Drew team. Sure they were very fortunate to avoid Kentucky, Virginia and Cincinnati, bur they beat the SEC regular season champion, the WAC champion, and ACC and big 12 teams.
That is the analysis of a number of sport outlets. YET, we lost by only 9 in our final game with them AT their house. Granted, it wasn't the Dance, but being in the MVC has made our kids different players over the second half of the season. It also had a impact on the way the coaching staff prepares our kids. So...... I do not think Valpo will need 5 years to equal LUC in getting to the MVC championship.
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 25, 2018, 04:03:11 PM
That is the analysis of a number of sport outlets. YET, we lost by only 9 in our final game with them AT their house. Granted, it wasn't the Dance, but being in the MVC has made our kids different players over the second half of the season. It also had a impact on the way the coaching staff prepares our kids. So...... I do not think Valpo will need 5 years to equal LUC in getting to the MVC championship.
It was a closer game then the final score indicated. Everything changed when Sorolla fouled out in the last few minutes of the game.
That Loyola game in their building is actually something the guys should be proud of. A loss is a loss but there were many positives to take away from that game. I'm pumped to play Loyola next year.
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 25, 2018, 04:03:11 PM
That is the analysis of a number of sport outlets. YET, we lost by only 9 in our final game with them AT their house. Granted, it wasn't the Dance, but being in the MVC has made our kids different players over the second half of the season. It also had a impact on the way the coaching staff prepares our kids. So...... I do not think Valpo will need 5 years to equal LUC in getting to the MVC championship.
BUT our esteemed university has got to remove every obstacle that might hinder Matt and his staff from recruiting the best players while at the same time bringing in a new genneration of Valpo fans. It comes down to an increased recruiting budget in conjunction with at least STARTING to (and promoting) a study to renovate the ARC to bring it up to MVC standards.
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 25, 2018, 04:11:56 PM
BUT our esteemed university has got to remove every obstacle that might hinder Matt and his staff from recruiting the best players while at the same time bringing in a new genneration of Valpo fans. It comes down to an increased recruiting budget in conjunction with at least STARTING to (and promoting) a study to renovate the ARC to bring it up to MVC standards.
President Heckler and the Board of Director's response: (https://media.giphy.com/media/rdJALMHoIvkWs/giphy.gif)
More food for thought for the Selection Committee:
https://twitter.com/boettger_eli/status/977703145852710912
I've said it before. Words are wind. If there was to be a serious administrative push for upgrades in buildings and budget it would have happened by now. The only reason we even have a competitive recruiting budget is due to a donation. Mark and Matt are doing the best they can but the lack of follow through by the board and prez can be very irritating.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 25, 2018, 04:33:32 PM
I've said it before. Words are wind. If there was to be a serious administrative push for upgrades in buildings and budget it would have happened by now. The only reason we even have a competitive recruiting budget is due to a donation. Mark and Matt are doing the best they can but the lack of follow through by the board and prez can be is very irritating.
I fixed it for you.
Valpo should look at the situation at DePaul and ensure that none of this is emulated.
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 25, 2018, 01:40:45 PM
First, congratulations to Loyola. They have had great opportunities and have taken advantage of them. They have very good players, play together as a team and seem to have multiple leaders to solidify their team play. Furthermore, Moser has done a great job teaching team offense that can overcome teams with more talent.
Several people raised the question of whether Valpo has ever been this good. I would argue that in 1998 and 2016 they were as good as this Loyola team, just not as successful. There is a difference. Loyola has benefitted greatly from avoiding teams that could overwhelm them with both athleticism and talent. Loyola would seem to have a reasonable probability of beating Kentucky, Arizona, Cincinnati or Virginia - but it is pretty unlikely that they could win two or three games like that in a row. Either of those Valpo teams, faced with the opponents Loyola has, might have done the same thing. Of course, Loyola has taken advantage of every opportunity and been wildly successful.
We should also be reminded of the importance and loyalty in building a program. I did not know Moser's record at Loyola, but seeing that record indicates that Loyola is being rewarded for patience with someone who was taking time to develop something. We should probably all remember that when being critical of Coach Lottich.
Excuses excuses. Only if..... blah, blah, brown and gold.
The bottom line is that Valpo could not and did not make it to the final four. While they were very good, they don't come close to being as good as this Loyola team.
Results matter. Virginia arguably was the best team this year. But they couldn't get it done when it counted. That's part of being the better team, showing you know how to win. Like Butler who swept Valpo. Valpo was not the better team those two years in which Butler made it to the final game.
If the 98 Valpo team beat the #8 seed Rhode Island, then the comparison in a remote perspective should be discussed. Loyola deserves enormous praise and respect - their performance against K-State yesterday was outstanding, and not in a Lou Holtz sense.
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 25, 2018, 06:02:57 PM
If the 98 Valpo team beat the #8 seed Rhode Island, then the comparison in a remote perspective should be discussed. Loyola deserves enormous praise and respect - their performance against K-State yesterday was outstanding, and not in a Lou Holtz sense.
I don't think anyone is taking away from their performance. They are a really good team.
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 25, 2018, 05:39:36 PM
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 25, 2018, 01:40:45 PM
First, congratulations to Loyola. They have had great opportunities and have taken advantage of them. They have very good players, play together as a team and seem to have multiple leaders to solidify their team play. Furthermore, Moser has done a great job teaching team offense that can overcome teams with more talent.
Several people raised the question of whether Valpo has ever been this good. I would argue that in 1998 and 2016 they were as good as this Loyola team, just not as successful. There is a difference. Loyola has benefitted greatly from avoiding teams that could overwhelm them with both athleticism and talent. Loyola would seem to have a reasonable probability of beating Kentucky, Arizona, Cincinnati or Virginia - but it is pretty unlikely that they could win two or three games like that in a row. Either of those Valpo teams, faced with the opponents Loyola has, might have done the same thing. Of course, Loyola has taken advantage of every opportunity and been wildly successful.
We should also be reminded of the importance and loyalty in building a program. I did not know Moser's record at Loyola, but seeing that record indicates that Loyola is being rewarded for patience with someone who was taking time to develop something. We should probably all remember that when being critical of Coach Lottich.
Excuses excuses. Only if..... blah, blah, brown and gold.
The bottom line is that Valpo could not and did not make it to the final four. While they were very good, they don't come close to being as good as this Loyola team.
Results matter. Virginia arguably was the best team this year. But they couldn't get it done when it counted. That's part of being the better team, showing you know how to win. Like Butler who swept Valpo. Valpo was not the better team those two years in which Butler made it to the final game.
Uh, we beat Butler in OT during the second matchup at Valpo, specific to their 2nd title game run. Does that mean our 2010-2011 team was better than our team 2 seasons ago, since they beat the national runner-up?
I heard ESPN radio last night around the dinner hour. The 2 guys talking said any mid-malor team getting to the Final Four is bad for college basketball in that it is embasrrassing to the NCAA. They continued saying the Finals should only be for the Big time powers i.e. Duke.Kansas, etc. becuase usually the small schools get whipped in the Finals. When someone asked about the Butler run of a few years ago they both agreed that that event set college basketball back 50 years!! Can you believe it?
Quote from: valpo64 on March 25, 2018, 08:22:05 PM
I heard ESPN radio last night around the dinner hour. The 2 guys talking said any mid-malor team getting to the Final Four is bad for college basketball in that it is embasrrassing to the NCAA. They continued saying the Finals should only be for the Big time powers i.e. Duke.Kansas, etc. becuase usually the small schools get whipped in the Finals. When someone asked about the Butler run of a few years ago they both agreed that that event set college basketball back 50 years!! Can you believe it?
The chance to see mid-majors pull off upsets is about the only reason I watch the tournament any more. I always pull for the underdog. Just not that exciting for me to watch the P5 teams only play each other. I have no connection to them. If they ever froze mid-majors out I suppose I would watch if any of the local school's teams were in it. Otherwise I would start to feel about it like I do about the nba. Not all that interested anymore.
Quote from: valpo64 on March 25, 2018, 08:22:05 PM
I heard ESPN radio last night around the dinner hour. The 2 guys talking said any mid-malor team getting to the Final Four is bad for college basketball in that it is embasrrassing to the NCAA. They continued saying the Finals should only be for the Big time powers i.e. Duke.Kansas, etc. becuase usually the small schools get whipped in the Finals. When someone asked about the Butler run of a few years ago they both agreed that that event set college basketball back 50 years!! Can you believe it?
Well then there's only one option...
Loyola needs to go to San Antonio... And win the whole (blanking) thing...
It's so sad that uninformed bull crap like that is allowed to drive the narrative in college sports...
Do you know what's embarrassing for the NCAA? I'll tell you:
Allowing a system where athletes are allowed to take fake classes and then not punishing the schools that engage in this practice.
Allowing schools to become so brazen and emboldened that they would so thoroughly render farcical the notion of the amateur athlete as to repeatedly offer benefits both of an illegal and immoral nature and answering with the toothless punishment of vacating past seasons. How about the loss of employment and\or outright banishment of the perpetrators or at least a postseason ban and scholarship reductions.
Repeatedly sweeping scandals under the rug to the degree that action by outside enforcement agencies became necessary
That it took until freaking 2019 for the NCAA to offer any kind of carrot or incentive whatsoever for student athletes' academic success to reward schools who do things the right way and all the while the NCAA trumpets the ideal of the student athlete
Disproportionately punishing the less-powerful for far lesser infractions than those pardoned by the NCAA for the more-powerful.
And do you know who it is saving the NCAA at least for now from having to answer for these things? It's not Duke, nor is it Kansas, nor Michigan or Villanova. It's Sister Jean, Porter Moser, and the Loyola Ramblers. The very team from the very sort of conference you're trying so hard to squeeze out of big time college athletics.
I would strongly advise the NCAA to think long and hard about what they're doing and I would advise these so-called sports journalists to deeply examine the narratives they're pushing to the masses before they allow a broken system to become irreparable and forever ruin a game and an event that millions adore.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 25, 2018, 08:57:17 PM
Quote from: valpo64 on March 25, 2018, 08:22:05 PM
I heard ESPN radio last night around the dinner hour. The 2 guys talking said any mid-malor team getting to the Final Four is bad for college basketball in that it is embasrrassing to the NCAA. They continued saying the Finals should only be for the Big time powers i.e. Duke.Kansas, etc. becuase usually the small schools get whipped in the Finals. When someone asked about the Butler run of a few years ago they both agreed that that event set college basketball back 50 years!! Can you believe it?
Well then there's only one option...
Loyola needs to go to San Antonio... And win the whole (blanking) thing...
It's so sad that uninformed bull crap like that is allowed to drive the narrative in college sports...
Do you know what's embarrassing for the NCAA? I'll tell you:
Allowing a system where athletes are allowed to take fake classes and then not punishing the schools that engage in this practice.
Allowing schools to become so brazen and emboldened that they would so thoroughly render farcical the notion of the amateur athlete as to repeatedly offer benefits both of an illegal and immoral nature and answering with the toothless punishment of vacating past seasons. How about the loss of employment and\or outright banishment of the perpetrators or at least a postseason ban and scholarship reductions.
Repeatedly sweeping scandals under the rug to the degree that action by outside enforcement agencies became necessary
That it took until freaking 2019 for the NCAA to offer any kind of carrot or incentive whatsoever for student athletes' academic success to reward schools who do things the right way and all the while the NCAA trumpets the ideal of the student athlete
Disproportionately punishing the less-powerful for far lesser infractions than those pardoned by the NCAA for the more-powerful.
And do you know who it is saving the NCAA at least for now from having to answer for these things? It's not Duke, nor is it Kansas, nor Michigan or Villanova. It's Sister Jean, Porter Moser, and the Loyola Ramblers. The very team from the very sort of conference you're trying so hard to squeeze out of big time college athletics.
I would strongly advise the NCAA to think long and hard about what they're doing and I would advise these so-called sports journalists to deeply examine the narratives they're pushing to the masses before they allow a broken system to become irreparable and forever ruin a game and an event that millions adore.
...$$$...They have it, we don't.
Interesting tweet from Paul Biancardi, once Horizon League COY with Wright State--when Valpo was in the Mid-Con, asst with Porter Moser at SLU when Rick Majerus was head coach at SLU. He was very close to Porter and Rick at this time.
Random thought. If Loyola of Chicago, did not win their conference tournament they would not have been invited to the dance! At large teams should be invited at the end of the regular season. Levels out the playing field for the non-power conferences.
11:57 AM - 25 Mar 2018
https://twitter.com/PaulBiancardi/status/977952597670858752
Background on Biancardi if that stretches your memory:
Biancardi departs Wright State by 'mutual agreement'
Mar 14, 2006
Associated Press
FAIRBORN, Ohio -- Paul Biancardi stepped down as Wright
State's basketball coach Monday, three days after the NCAA barred
him from recruiting for violating rules when he was an assistant at Ohio State.
"Paul Biancardi will no longer be employed as head coach of
men's basketball at Wright State University," Wright State and
Biancardi said in a joint statement.
"As a result of the Ohio State University public infractions
report by the NCAA, Wright State University believes it is in
everyone's best interest for the coach to move on to other
opportunities."
A message seeking comment was left for Biancardi.
The NCAA found that Biancardi passed $6,000 from former Ohio
State coach Jim O'Brien to a recruit's family in 1999 and that both
coaches acted unethically by not reporting their conduct to the school.
In a ruling Friday, the NCAA prohibited Biancardi from
recruiting until Oct. 1, 2007, with the stipulation that if he did,
Wright State would face NCAA sanctions.
Biancardi, 43, was hired at Wright State in April 2003 and led
the Raiders to a 14-14 record in the Horizon League in his first
season. Wright State finished this season 13-15 and lost in the
first round of the conference tournament to Illinois-Chicago.
Wright State said a national search for a new coach will begin immediately.
Wright State was the first head coaching job for Biancardi. He
served as O'Brien's assistant for 13 years -- seven seasons at
Boston College and six at Ohio State, where he was the recruiting
coordinator. Biancardi also has held assistant coaching jobs at
Boston University, Suffolk and Salem State.
At Wright State, Biancardi replaced Ed Schilling, who was fired
after going 75-93 in six seasons with the Raiders.
Decent idea but how do you deal with anomalies in the conference tournament; or does this proposal do away with conference tournaments entirely?
Ray Curren
For the 679th time.
Also believe that Loyola is now the first team in the modern era to make the Final Four that would not have received a bid if it weren't for an auto bid.
https://twitter.com/currenrr/status/977699715243479040
Another interesting fact from Ray Curren:
More Ray Curren Retweeted John Templon
Michigan and Loyola both played (and won) its respective conference tournaments and then had 10 days off before the NCAAs for anyone who made that argument previously.
https://twitter.com/currenrr/status/977740898816622592
QuoteUh, we beat Butler in OT during the second matchup at Valpo, specific to their 2nd title game run. Does that mean our 2010-2011 team was better than our team 2 seasons ago, since they beat the national runner-up?
I never said that. Valpo couldn't make it to the final four or the national championship game. Most teams lose a game or two during the regular season before making it to the national championship game. Those were outlier wins by inferior teams. Don't be silly.
Valpo couldn't get it done. Probably never will.
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 26, 2018, 05:49:49 AM
QuoteUh, we beat Butler in OT during the second matchup at Valpo, specific to their 2nd title game run. Does that mean our 2010-2011 team was better than our team 2 seasons ago, since they beat the national runner-up?
I never said that. Valpo couldn't make it to the final four or the national championship game. Most teams lose a game or two during the regular season before making it to the national championship game. Those were outlier wins by inferior teams. Don't be silly.
Valpo couldn't get it done. Probably never will.
Why? Valpo had a better record than Loyola did in their first year in the Missouri Valley just a few short years ago. Why can Loyola (and Butler) get to the Final Four and Valpo never will? ? ?
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-fkNBABaZwq4/TZFUAkUt-II/AAAAAAAAAVM/cxHzUDwzU3s/s1600/Negative_Thinking.jpg)
I suppose there is an exceedingly remote possibility. But I don't see it that way. Negative? I'd say realistic.
What is interesting is Valpo's Sweet 16 run as a 13 was quite remarkable at that time. They played FSU, a 12 (likely last team in), in the next round and URI, an 8, in the first Sweet 16 game. Valpo should have beaten URI. It just didn't happen, but that team then would have faced Stanford, whom Valpo had played close early in the season on a neutral court. URI lost by 2.
Matchups are the critical wildcard in every tourney. Loyola has been "blessed" by the matchups this year. Instead of UK, they got a middling Big 12 team coached by Bruce Weber. Instead of UC, they got Nevada, a mid-major. Their best win was over Tennessee. They now get Michigan, a B1G team that MVC teams tend to match up well with on a neutral court. Wagner poses issues if they post him low (wish Smits starts to play like Wagner in another year). [Aside, what was Duke thinking in the OT, never went inside to Bagley for 5 mins???]
Butler also had favorable matchups in its 2 Final Four appearances. It doesn't lessen their success or impact. Butler in 2010 was a 5 and got a 12 (UTEP) and a 13 (Murray) to get to Sweet 16. They then got a 1 seed, but it was Syracuse. A team that is always beatable (or can reel off wins) because of the zone. Butler had a scheme that matched up extremely well with a zone. Won by 4 then got Kansas State. They deserved everything they earned that year, but matchups were favorable. 2011, Butler was an 8 and barely beat ODU and then got Pittsburgh which is usually a fragile club, they eeked out the win, similar to Loyola winning a couple on last possessions, and then got Wisconsin (a 4), another slow down not high offense team. As someone said over the weekend (maybe Chuckles), you have to still score in these tournaments. Butler, like Loyola had a great offensive scheme and could score (Mack/Smith/Howard), and had seniors. Next was Florida and an OT game that was 60-60 at end of regulation. Again Butler did what they needed to do in those situations and got to 2 championship games. Loyola has earned this and should enjoy every second of it. 55 years is a long time. It's great for them, great for the MVC. But, going to make it that much harder for the MVC to find games.
The 98 team showed it could be done with the right matchups and breaks in a tourney. No, they didn't go farther, but it showed how it could be done. Scott Drew prophetically said when he became head coach in 2002 (and Paul might have the exact quote) that he wanted to take Valpo to a Final Four and believe a mid-major could do it. Now, he left before he could try to bring Valpo there, but he had the right concept and mindset that a mid-major could make the Final 4. George Mason and VCU, Butler and Loyola have now proven that it is possible. Loyola has those senior guards and that carries you far in this tourney.
And if people want to speculate about whether that 2016 team could beat this Loyola team, please speculate. I would have loved to have seen that matchup. Valpo's offensive schemes were good and we could get shots.
I think Loyola has better facilities and probably better support from the university board and trustees. The Gentile Center is nice. Also, their endowment is triple of Valpo's.
Quote from: valpo84 on March 26, 2018, 09:28:44 AM
What is interesting is Valpo's Sweet 16 run as a 13 was quite remarkable at that time. They played FSU, a 12 (likely last team in), in the next round and URI, an 8, in the first Sweet 16 game. Valpo should have beaten URI. It just didn't happen, but that team then would have faced Stanford, whom Valpo had played close early in the season on a neutral court. URI lost by 2.
Matchups are the critical wildcard in every tourney. Loyola has been "blessed" by the matchups this year. Instead of UK, they got a middling Big 12 team coached by Bruce Weber. Instead of UC, they got Nevada, a mid-major. Their best win was over Tennessee. They now get Michigan, a B1G team that MVC teams tend to match up well with on a neutral court. Wagner poses issues if they post him low (wish Smits starts to play like Wagner in another year). [Aside, what was Duke thinking in the OT, never went inside to Bagley for 5 mins???]
Butler also had favorable matchups in its 2 Final Four appearances. It doesn't lessen their success or impact. Butler in 2010 was a 5 and got a 12 (UTEP) and a 13 (Murray) to get to Sweet 16. They then got a 1 seed, but it was Syracuse. A team that is always beatable (or can reel off wins) because of the zone. Butler had a scheme that matched up extremely well with a zone. Won by 4 then got Kansas State. They deserved everything they earned that year, but matchups were favorable. 2011, Butler was an 8 and barely beat ODU and then got Pittsburgh which is usually a fragile club, they eeked out the win, similar to Loyola winning a couple on last possessions, and then got Wisconsin (a 4), another slow down not high offense team. As someone said over the weekend (maybe Chuckles), you have to still score in these tournaments. Butler, like Loyola had a great offensive scheme and could score (Mack/Smith/Howard), and had seniors. Next was Florida and an OT game that was 60-60 at end of regulation. Again Butler did what they needed to do in those situations and got to 2 championship games. Loyola has earned this and should enjoy every second of it. 55 years is a long time. It's great for them, great for the MVC. But, going to make it that much harder for the MVC to find games.
The 98 team showed it could be done with the right matchups and breaks in a tourney. No, they didn't go farther, but it showed how it could be done. Scott Drew prophetically said when he became head coach in 2002 (and Paul might have the exact quote) that he wanted to take Valpo to a Final Four and believe a mid-major could do it. Now, he left before he could try to bring Valpo there, but he had the right concept and mindset that a mid-major could make the Final 4. George Mason and VCU, Butler and Loyola have now proven that it is possible. Loyola has those senior guards and that carries you far in this tourney.
And if people want to speculate about whether that 2016 team could beat this Loyola team, please speculate. I would have loved to have seen that matchup. Valpo's offensive schemes were good and we could get shots.
Pretty much every team that makes it this far has the ball bounce their way in critical spots. Going back to the Butler runs, in 2010, they very easily could have lost to Murray State. Syracuse they got some crazy bounces (Veasley had a 3 bounce in from the wing after it hit the back of the rim, front of the rim, hit the backboard and bounced in. Nored hit a 25 footer late in the shot clock (he shot under 20% from 3 that year). Kansas State was coming off a 2OT game 2 days before against Xavier and was tired. In 2011, Matt Howard got a tap in at the buzzer after the late Andrew Smith tapped it off the backboard to him against ODU. Against Pitt Shelvin Mack committed the dumbest foul possibly in tourney history to put Pitt at the line to win the game. Not only did the Pitt player miss one, but on the rebound a Pitt player fouled Howard to put him at the line with 2 free throws in which he only needed to hit 1 to win. Against Florida, Stevens puts in Chrishawn Hopkins when they were in desperation mode down 9, he hits a 3 and dishes an assist to spark them and the rest is history.
Michigan could be sitting at home if Jordan Poole doesn't hit that 3 against Houston. Loyola's done the same against Miami, Kansas was fortunate that Allen's shot didn't go in for Duke at the end of regulation yesterday. Really the only team that's in the F4 right now without that "break" is Villanova. As long as you get into the tournament, you've got a chance.
QuoteLoyola has been "blessed" by the matchups this year.
Blessed by the matchups? LOL What games are you watching? Just another excuse and rampant speculation about why Valpo could have won. You crack me up. If anything, Loyola should have been seeded at LEAST a 10 seed, more realistically an 8 or better.
Loyola's run has been awesome to watch and is great for the MVC and great for Valpo. They are a very good team (currently 30th in the KenPom ratings). It doesn't take anything away from them to recognize the reality that they have had an unusually easy path to the Final Four, based on the outcomes of other games in their region. Five other mid-majors have recently made a Final Four (George Mason - 2006, Butler - 2010, Butler - 2011, VCU - 2011 and Wichita State - 2013). All five of those teams had to play and beat the number 1 seed in their region in order to reach the Final 4. Three of those five had to beat the number 1 and number 2 seeds. Loyola didn't have to play either.
Here's another way to put that in perspective, the 2016 Valpo team had to beat a higher ranked KenPom team (#34 St. Mary's) in order to reach the NIT SEMIS, than Loyola had to (#40 Kansas State) in order to reach the FINAL FOUR! That is astounding. For reference, here are the KenPom ranks of the 5 teams that the other mid-major Final Four participants beat in their Elite 8 match ups: 4, 6, 17, 3 and 7.
It's impossible to say what the 2016 Valpo team would have done with a chance to play in the NCAAs. But it's easy to see that a slate of match ups like the ones Loyola had this year would make a Final Four run a lot more likely for anyone. As IrishDawg pointed out, unless you are a blue-blood with overwhelming talent, a considerable amount of luck, both in how your own games play out and in the match ups you get, will be needed to reach a Final Four.
Regardless, congratulations to Loyola. They seized the opportunity put in front of them, and that is all anyone can do. Here's hoping for two more wins this weekend!
Quote from: ml2 on March 26, 2018, 10:56:11 AM
Loyola's run has been awesome to watch and is great for the MVC and great for Valpo. They are a very good team (currently 30th in the KenPom ratings). It doesn't take anything away from them to recognize the reality that they have had an unusually easy path to the Final Four, based on the outcomes of other games in their region. Five other mid-majors have recently made a Final Four (George Mason - 2006, Butler - 2010, Butler - 2011, VCU - 2011 and Wichita State - 2013). All five of those teams had to play and beat the number 1 seed in their region in order to reach the Final 4. Three of those five had to beat the number 1 and number 2 seeds. Loyola didn't have to play either.
Here's another way to put that in perspective, the 2016 Valpo team had to beat a higher ranked KenPom team (#34 St. Mary's) in order to reach the NIT SEMIS, than Loyola had to (#40 Kansas State) in order to reach the FINAL FOUR! That is astounding. For reference, here are the KenPom ranks of the 5 teams that the other mid-major Final Four participants beat in their Elite 8 match ups: 4, 6, 17, 3 and 7.
It's impossible to say what the 2016 Valpo team would have done with a chance to play in the NCAAs. But it's easy to see that a slate of match ups like the ones Loyola had this year would make a Final Four run a lot more likely for anyone. As IrishDawg pointed out, unless you are a blue-blood with overwhelming talent, a considerable amount of luck, both in how your own games play out and in the match ups you get, will be needed to reach a Final Four.
Regardless, congratulations to Loyola. They seized the opportunity put in front of them, and that is all anyone can do. Here's hoping for two more wins this weekend!
As always, great analysis ml2.
Quote from: ml2 on March 26, 2018, 10:56:11 AM
Loyola's run has been awesome to watch and is great for the MVC and great for Valpo. They are a very good team (currently 30th in the KenPom ratings). It doesn't take anything away from them to recognize the reality that they have had an unusually easy path to the Final Four, based on the outcomes of other games in their region. Five other mid-majors have recently made a Final Four (George Mason - 2006, Butler - 2010, Butler - 2011, VCU - 2011 and Wichita State - 2013). All five of those teams had to play and beat the number 1 seed in their region in order to reach the Final 4. Three of those five had to beat the number 1 and number 2 seeds. Loyola didn't have to play either.
Here's another way to put that in perspective, the 2016 Valpo team had to beat a higher ranked KenPom team (#34 St. Mary's) in order to reach the NIT SEMIS, than Loyola had to (#40 Kansas State) in order to reach the FINAL FOUR! That is astounding. For reference, here are the KenPom ranks of the 5 teams that the other mid-major Final Four participants beat in their Elite 8 match ups: 4, 6, 17, 3 and 7.
It's impossible to say what the 2016 Valpo team would have done with a chance to play in the NCAAs. But it's easy to see that a slate of match ups like the ones Loyola had this year would make a Final Four run a lot more likely for anyone. As IrishDawg pointed out, unless you are a blue-blood with overwhelming talent, a considerable amount of luck, both in how your own games play out and in the match ups you get, will be needed to reach a Final Four.
Regardless, congratulations to Loyola. They seized the opportunity put in front of them, and that is all anyone can do. Here's hoping for two more wins this weekend!
You made some valid arguments. Nice job. I will concede that Loyola has not played the higher seeded teams that previous teams you mentioned did to reach the final four. But my eye test tells me that this is the best TEAM of any of the previous teams you mentioned. No super stars, yet they play fundamentally sound basketball and beat better (on paper) and more athletic and higher-seeded teams. And the seeding process as well as the Pomeroy/Sagarin ratings are not infallible as we see every year. It's tough to make a valid comparison. I'm all in with Loyola, they've made a believer out of me. I picked Michigan to win it all but I sure would like to see Loyola beat them and win the championship game. This year is one of the most exciting tournaments I've ever watched. (Close second 1998) I don't recall seeing the remarkable parity in the entire field that we've seen this year compared to prior years. Anyone can win from top to bottom. There were some firsts such as the first 16 seed winning and the first elite 8 game between a 9 and an 11 seed. This is a crazy year for college basketball.
............... and it is just so nice to be able to say that we are in a conference that has the ability to send a team like Loyola this year (and WSU in the past) deep into the dance. I'd like to think that we (Valpo) will have that capability in the not too distant future as well. Great rooting for the Ramblers.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 25, 2018, 12:24:00 AM
This hurts to think about... Because it's true...
https://twitter.com/connerennis/status/976992171810279425
That Valpo team was good enough to beat anyone on a neutral court. Just wish they would have been given a chance to get into the tourney.
Just browsed to the Loyola site. Their opening page announces that they have sold out their ticket packages for San Antonio. Additional tickets are available for LUC fans via the NCAA Ticket Exchange. Rambler fans have really gotten into it. I wonder if it had been Valpo whether we could do that? They have so many Chicago alums compared to VU. But for years they couldn't even fill the Gentile. Funny how things can change.
Something tells me they won't have trouble filling up the GC next year, even after they jack up ticket prices.
Summer basketball camp enrollment at Loyola will increase too. I wonder also if elite Chicagoland prospects will decide to play there.
The Final USAToday Coaches Top 25 has been released. Loyola went up 21 slots from unranked to #7. They got additional exposure because of the huge leap. Interestingly, the team that lost the most ground: The Shockers who dropped 9 slots and almost drpped out of the rankings at #25.
In next year's preseaon poll, Loyola comes in at #15. Gonzaga is the top mid-major at #5 with Nevada the only other mid-major in the 2018-19 Top 25 at #13.
Nevada willl be really really good next year. I was impressed with them in the tournament, and they played well against Loyola. Well coached also.
People will be gaming on Loyola next year.