December 20, 2017. UCR 73 Valpo 60.
Pay Back Time.
Highlanders current record: 2-5
Oregon State LOSS 72-59
Portland State LOSS 71-64
UNLV LOSS 72-51
UC Merced WIN 63-53
Pacific LOSS 74-54
Elon WIN.77-64
Abilene Christian LOSS 60-48
California Baptist (Play tonight 7pm PST - Big West TV - https://gohighlanders.com/schedule.aspx?path=mbball)
Valpo 12/2/2018
ROSTER
Seniors - 2
Juniors - 2
Sophs - 5
Frosh - 5
HEIGHT
Two 7 footers (one a senior from Holland and the other a freshman from New Zealand)
One 6-8
One 6-7
Five 6-5
Two 6-3
One 6-2
One 6-1
One 5-11
We need to go out and crush this team. Avenge last year's loss. Leave no doubt.
Worst loss of my entire Valpo fandom. They need to beat the crap out of this team:
Valpo 81
UCR 64
Ditto. We collapsed last year after the Burton news and just gave them a win.
Revenge!
Btw, how high can land be in Riverside?
Looking at the current Sagarin ratings, it appears Valpo might be viewed as favorites by about 11 points.
The real result better be by 20. This team needs to treat every game they play from now on as pay back. No more playing down to the level of the competition.
Quote from: VULB#62 on November 29, 2018, 10:50:13 PM
The real result better be by 20. This team needs to treat every game they play from now on as pay back. No more playing down to the level of the competition.
What does a margin of victory >20 actually do? Is it not more valuable to have a close game for us to execute our offense and defense for a full game?
Maybe I'm weird (guaranteed) but I'd rather have a well contested game with a margin between 8-12 pts throughout to keep our competition engaged. What do we learn from a >20 pt margin of victory? This is not directed at any one person, just a general ask...
P.S. Since it takes a century to type out these replies on a phone I've had time to think my argument through...I'll take a >20 pt margin of victory if 10 of those points come in the final 2-minutes 😉
I will be playing the Beat Farmers "Riverside" song to get myself fired up for a Valpo win.
Learning how to dominate a team you should is valuable in my mind.... playing a close game against lesser compitition is not a virtue. Just my two cents...
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on November 30, 2018, 07:19:27 AM
Quote from: VULB#62 on November 29, 2018, 10:50:13 PM
The real result better be by 20. This team needs to treat every game they play from now on as pay back. No more playing down to the level of the competition.
What does a margin of victory >20 actually do? Is it not more valuable to have a close game for us to execute our offense and defense for a full game?
Maybe I'm weird (guaranteed) but I'd rather have a well contested game with a margin between 8-12 pts throughout to keep our competition engaged. What do we learn from a >20 pt margin of victory? This is not directed at any one person, just a general ask...
P.S. Since it takes a century to type out these replies on a phone I've had time to think my argument through...I'll take a >20 pt margin of victory if 10 of those points come in the final 2-minutes 😉
While I was reading your post I was thinking the exact same thing as your PS. Then I got to the PS and... Tah dah. The Riverside score needs to be a statement and that certainly can come at the end. Also, we need to reflect our strength in comparison to UNLV who beat these guys by 21. If we sqeak by, some might think our win over UNLV was a fluke.
Every player that was on this team last year should take this UCR games personally. This should be a revenge game and the energy/focus should be high this game.
Respectfully, I disagree with FieldGoodie and 62. I don't think it benefits the team to have a contested game against an inferior opponent. In looking at UCR's wins and losses, it seems that we should consider them significantly inferior. Would we say that it's better for the team to have a contested game against a parks and rec league team? No. So, while we do want contested games, we don't want contested games when it should be a blowout wire-to-wire.
Maybe what you're saying is that you hope that UCR plays its best game of the year against Valpo, so that the game is marginally contested. I guess that I would want that too, so long as it ends in a win.
Quote from: VULB#62 on November 30, 2018, 08:17:40 AMThe Riverside score needs to be a statement and that certainly can come at the end.
My recommended starting lineup would be Evelyn at point, Golder at the 2, Kiser at 3, McMillan at 4, and Smits at center. I realize it is a cobbled together mess that should never be placed on the floor together but it is our healthiest combination of players that participated in last years loss. As such they should be given first crack at earning a little revenge and redemption! ;)
Quote from: justducky on November 30, 2018, 09:52:17 AM
Quote from: VULB#62 on November 30, 2018, 08:17:40 AMThe Riverside score needs to be a statement and that certainly can come at the end.
My recommended starting lineup would be Evelyn at point, Golder at the 2, Kiser at 3, McMillan at 4, and Smits at center. I realize it is a cobbled together mess that should never be placed on the floor together but it is our healthiest combination of players that participated in last years loss. As such they should be given first crack at earning a little revenge and redemption! ;)
If you really want to make it competitive, that is the lineup you want. If you want to clean their clocks, probably not so much.
Quote from: 4throwfan on November 30, 2018, 08:40:54 AM
Respectfully, I disagree with FieldGoodie and 62. I don't think it benefits the team to have a contested game against an inferior opponent. In looking at UCR's wins and losses, it seems that we should consider them significantly inferior. Would we say that it's better for the team to have a contested game against a parks and rec league team? No. So, while we do want contested games, we don't want contested games when it should be a blowout wire-to-wire.
Maybe what you're saying is that you hope that UCR plays its best game of the year against Valpo, so that the game is marginally contested. I guess that I would want that too, so long as it ends in a win.
Absolutely correct, I want every teams best during OOC.
So you could say I'm a fan of our competition playing their best game against us, AS LONG as we still win!
We need to use OOC to develop our cohesion and ability to play together...since MVC tournament is the only real shot for NCAA tournament appearances for now.
Derrick can trash talk to their center in Dutch since he's from the Netherlands.
Just wondering if they ever met when Derrick played over there during his summer breaks?
The line: Valpo -13
I am glad I am not a bookie needing to study these obscure teams and put my livelihood on it.
Quote from: crusadermoe on December 01, 2018, 07:23:39 PM
I am glad I am not a bookie needing to study these obscure teams and put my livelihood on it.
It's basically the KenPom line +/- 1 point.
What I would like to see today...
More inside out movement. As stated earlier the ball movement looked better last week. Now that Smits has the confidence to attack and score. I would like to see him occasionally kick it back out for a wide open 3 when he draws more than 1 defender. If he can master both we are going to be really good this year because our 3 point % will go up with an effective inside out game with more catch and shoot spot up 3's to go with easy buckets around the rim for Smits.
ESPN+ worked for me yesterday until later in the day when it apparently had some kind of national or regional problem. Anybody know if it is up and running today?
Quote from: justducky on December 02, 2018, 09:43:25 AMESPN+ worked for me yesterday until later in the day when it apparently had some kind of national or regional problem. Anybody know if it is up and running today?
It appears to be working right now, at least for me.
13 students and 10 band members...
Quote from: M on December 02, 2018, 12:59:35 PM
13 students and 10 band members...
Are the students on break?
Quote from: FWalum on December 02, 2018, 01:17:54 PM
Quote from: wh on December 02, 2018, 01:13:16 PM
Quote from: M on December 02, 2018, 12:59:35 PM
13 students and 10 band members...
Are the students on break?
No
Valpo is competing directly with Bears and Colts. We also don't draw well on Sundays from the students for some reason. I really don't understand the lack of student interest the last few years. Maybe it's a loss of culture or maybe Valpo is attracting or recruiting a different type of student the last few years. But 13 students is embarrassingly low attendance... If you look around the arena you can generally see them scattered around the arena not sitting in the student section. It's been happening more frequently the last few years.
This game was originally suppose to be a espn3 game but it got moved to a espn+ game for some reason. Does the MVC have any control over if it gets picked up or not?
https://twitter.com/ValleyHoops/status/1058448664635498496
An explanation from a student. They are apparently all sitting in the upper-deck for some reason. My best guess is that there is a sense that the student section is in a pretty "sad" place and they know that, so they don't to want be apart of it. If the student section was flush with attendance and rocking they would want to sit there.
https://twitter.com/jnordbrock23/status/1069314389054869504
https://twitter.com/jnordbrock23/status/1069319814701821952
Seems to me I've never wanted to sit behind the basket at any bball game. It's not good seating in my opinion.
Maybe we could put the students in section E or F (if E is too close to the opposition bench).
:deadhorse: :deadhorse:
Quote from: VU2014 on December 02, 2018, 01:38:00 PM
Quote from: FWalum on December 02, 2018, 01:17:54 PM
Quote from: wh on December 02, 2018, 01:13:16 PM
Quote from: M on December 02, 2018, 12:59:35 PM
13 students and 10 band members...
dead horse
Are the students on break?
No
Valpo is competing directly with Bears and Colts. We also don't draw well on Sundays from the students for some reason. I really don't understand the lack of student interest the last few years. Maybe it's a loss of culture or maybe Valpo is attracting or recruiting a different type of student the last few years. But 13 students is embarrassingly low attendance... If you look around the arena you can generally see them scattered around the arena not sitting in the student section. It's been happening more frequently the last few years.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on December 02, 2018, 02:15:26 PM
:deadhorse: :deadhorse:Quote from: VU2014 on December 02, 2018, 01:38:00 PM
Quote from: FWalum on December 02, 2018, 01:17:54 PM
Quote from: wh on December 02, 2018, 01:13:16 PM
Quote from: M on December 02, 2018, 12:59:35 PM
13 students and 10 band members...
dead horse
Are the students on break?
No
Valpo is competing directly with Bears and Colts. We also don't draw well on Sundays from the students for some reason. I really don't understand the lack of student interest the last few years. Maybe it's a loss of culture or maybe Valpo is attracting or recruiting a different type of student the last few years. But 13 students is embarrassingly low attendance... If you look around the arena you can generally see them scattered around the arena not sitting in the student section. It's been happening more frequently the last few years.
It may be beating dead horse but it's absolutely worth talking about. It's a glaring concern for this athletics dept and for the future of this fan-base.
Considering out of all of Paul's tweets today this one got the most engagement it's a concern to the fan-base and it absolutely reflects poorly on the fan-base, school, athletics dept, and team.
I'd like to hear Paul address it on the next Union Street Hoops episode. He's a professor and sees these students everyday on campus so he'd know better than any of us on this board. Has the student body really changed that much over the course of the last few years?
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1069306540589547526
There's maybe 8 students up here.
82-73 win for Valpo. Good offensive performance but the defense wasn't great. UCR shot well from 3 in the game which was what kept them in the game. Valpo shot 50% from 3. Valpo won the rebound battle today.
I expected Valpo to pull away earlier but they kept hanging around till the very end.
...Obviously OBVIOUSLY prefer this result to last year's debacle. Who was it that thought these frustrating close games are better than the blowouts they should be? Guh. This is a dangerous tendency to allow teams life, that Valpo has gotten away with thus far. Perhaps teams have a tendency to shoot better than normal when they play us, felt like UCR shot well (haven't looked at stats) down the stretch and would not go away...feel the same about SIUe.
Perhaps Valpo has some extra trouble at home because their are no crowds to apply added pressure. At 30-18, you want the noise of the students and their cheers/jeers to give that sinking feeling to the other team. All our opponents have to do is wait 2 seconds after a basket and the place is essentially neutral. Being so far away is very frustrating to see interest dwindle, especially among students. Of course, winning is the best medicine, and they at least did that when all is said and done today.
Here is a reason why students did not attend the game...Valpo was playing UC-Riverside! I know that the Highlanders put up a good game, but you are not going to attract student interest if you are playing a weak lower major D1 team. This is even more so when the game is on Sunday, as students have work to get done for Monday and there is competition from the Bears and the Colts (both of whom are losing to 3-8 teams). When I and a few others saw this awful home schedule come out, this was our fear of what would happen. The students haven't changed...it is just that the schedule told them, "don't bother coming out until the MVC schedule in January because we (for whatever reason) have not scheduled anyone worth coming out to see." Some people might try to blame marketing at Valpo, but you cannot market an awful product (i.e. a completely non-interesting opponent).
Quote from: vu84v2 on December 02, 2018, 02:58:50 PM
The students haven't changed...it is just that the schedule told them, "don't bother coming out until the MVC schedule in January because we (for whatever reason) have not scheduled anyone worth coming out to see." Some people might try to blame marketing at Valpo, but you cannot market an awful product (i.e. a completely non-interesting opponent).
Scheduling isn't as simple as you make it out to be. The coaches make all the phone calls to get higher profile teams to come play here but the coaching staff gets shot down at a very high rate. Scheduling is different than it was even 6-8 years ago. P5s don't want to travel or play on the road so it causes a trickle down affect.
I think our issues are deeper than just scheduling. The basketball student culture feels lost.
Quote from: VU2014 on December 02, 2018, 03:06:20 PM
Quote from: vu84v2 on December 02, 2018, 02:58:50 PM
The students haven't changed...it is just that the schedule told them, "don't bother coming out until the MVC schedule in January because we (for whatever reason) have not scheduled anyone worth coming out to see." Some people might try to blame marketing at Valpo, but you cannot market an awful product (i.e. a completely non-interesting opponent).
Scheduling isn't as simple as you make it out to be. They coaches make all the phone calls to get higher profile teams to come play here but the coaching staff gets shot down at a very high rate. Scheduling is different than it was even 6-8 years ago. P5s don't want to travel or play on the road so it causes a trickle down affect.
I think our issues are deeper than just scheduling. The basketball student culture feels lost.
Valpo inexcusably scheduled home and homes with two of the worst D1 teams in the country - SIU-E and UC-Riverside. That locked in two games this season against opponents that students are not going to come out for. The 'best' home game is against Ball State and you've got not one, but two non-D1 opponents. Students want to get excited, but what is there to get excited about? Don't think about that question from your perspective - think about it from the students' perspective.
Regardless of which position you choose to take, the basketball staff is doing a poor job of scheduling or it is just too difficult to get quality opponents, you end up in the same place - a product that is not compelling with few students willing to commit time to attend the game. It is no different than business, you can have all the reasons in the world why your product doesn't have features or you can't sufficiently lower your costs - but regardless of the reason, the customers choose to go elsewhere. Valpo has to take ownership of this scheduling issue or the problem will just continue or get worse.
Whatever... I never looked at the opponent to decide if i would support my team when I was a student. If there was a game - I went...
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
And the devoted fan would go regardless of the opponent...but I would argue that most students at Valpo are fans, but not devoted. They've always been that way and they are that way at pretty much all other schools (the exception being places like Kansas and Duke).
Look at Marquette in the last several weeks. They played Charleston Southern on Tuesday. Had maybe 100 students in the student section (undergraduate population is 8000 and Charleston Southern is a better opponent than UC-Riverside). Maybe 200 students in the student section at the previous home game against Presbyterian. Yesterday against Kansas State - probably half of the entire undergraduate student population. Students know who the opponents are and make decisions accordingly.
If Sackey ever finds his jump shot watch out
Going to be really embarrassing when Loyola shows up here with more students and those stupid scarfs than we've had all season.
A low foul, low turn over (11) game with 44 vs 22 points in the paint. Sakey again showing us why he will become a special player.
Think what you want but I am curious if Matt had intended to play either McMillan or Kiser. John only entered when there was a need for him at defense and he got 2 minutes only. Mileek did not play at all and neither saw the floor at UNLV. Absent some type of hand slap misbehavior in sin city I would have expected to see brief appearances by each in both games. BUT! Even if I am right, "what happens in Vegas- stays in Vegas". :-[
Quote from: M on December 02, 2018, 03:45:40 PM
If Sackey ever finds his jump shot watch out
He is so fast....
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Quote from: justducky on December 02, 2018, 04:02:57 PM
A low foul, low turn over (11) game with 44 vs 22 points in the paint. Sakey again showing us why he will become a special player.
Think what you want but I am curious if Matt had intended to play either McMillan or Kiser. John only entered when there was a need for him at defense and he got 2 minutes only. Mileek did not play at all and neither saw the floor at UNLV. Absent some type of hand slap misbehavior in sin city I would have expected to see brief appearances by each in both games. BUT! Even if I am right, "what happens in Vegas- stays in Vegas". :-[
Do you also believe we faked the moon landings?
It's simple - there's 80 minutes at the 4 and the 5. With Sorolla back, him and Smits are splitting the minutes at the 5. Golder and Fazekas are splitting the minutes at the 4.
Nice win.
Nice to see some offensive improvement from some players, who needed to improve.
Were some defensive lapses, which need to be reduced.
I was disappointed that when Valpo set up the trusty homerun play, UCR seemed ready for it, so a short inbound pass was made instead. Would like to hope that we can still rely on that. Nice trusty icing on the cake for the home fans.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on December 02, 2018, 03:57:41 PM
Going to be really embarrassing when Loyola shows up here with more students and those stupid scarfs than we've had all season.
To be fair, classes end in five days and finals start in 8. Students probably have a ton of work to finish and as has already been mentioned this game went directly up against prominent local football teams. Add to that a game against a program only this board the coaches and players and the Happening Hoops guys have ever even heard of and you do not have a good recipe for attendance. That said this was still our highest attended game since the exhibition which drew 2256 people a number no game has yet equalled. Here are the reported numbers:
Ex vs Indianapolis 2256
Opening night vs Concordia 2098
Nov 21 vs SIUE 1940 (day before thanksgiving)
Dec 2 UC-Riverside 2112
High Point and Ball State should be better but High Point has struggled a bit and even the Ball State game is up against what should be a good Monday Night Football game which might keep a few people home (No local team is playing so maybe I'll be wrong about this).
Part of me wonders if perhaps the team is still being punished for the UINDY game but we probably won't break 3000 until conference play. Hopefully I'm wrong and attendance will start to pick up now that we seem to have righted the ship and are on a bit of a winning streak. I think if we can get to the Ball State game at 7-3 that might get attendance back on track. Hopefully we can finish OOC play 10-3 or 9-4 and build a little excitement for Conference play. Go Valpo!
I think the whole it's fallen out of a student culture is a big thing. The Basketball team threw a pizza party in one of the first year dorms last night and we still didn't see a huge turn out. Better opponents might help, better outreach might help, but if the students don't want to come (and attendance is down in general I believe) it's going to take a student led push to get it back. The Athletic Department might look to seriously woo Greek Life to get them in the stands regularly
I think that might be the best and most significant positive step we could make. Do whatever it takes to get the fraternities and sororities to come to games frequently.
Quote from: vusupporter on December 02, 2018, 04:29:50 PMDo you also believe we faked the moon landings?
What moon landing?
Quote from: vusupporter on December 02, 2018, 04:29:50 PMIt's simple - there's 80 minutes at the 4 and the 5. With Sorolla back, him and Smits are splitting the minutes at the 5. Golder and Fazekas are splitting the minutes at the 4.
Well I know how coaches think and I can also remember how young men can think. So lets look back to last season. Mileek started 18 games and appeared in all 32. John started 3, appeared in 26 and did not play only during the 6 game Jan stretch when he was injured. I also seem to remember chef raving about McMillan playing in October practice like he was a different kid. So he started game #1 and by games #6 and 7 he doesn't even see the floor ??? I don't think so. ::) and I am sure that everybody on the board who regularly works with kids is also scratching their heads.
Coaches regularly put players in the doghouse and it is not our business to ask for explanations for everything. I trust Matt because we hired him to do the thinking. :thumbsup:
Quote from: crusader05 on December 02, 2018, 05:17:35 PM
I think the whole it's fallen out of a student culture is a big thing. The Basketball team threw a pizza party in one of the first year dorms last night and we still didn't see a huge turn out. Better opponents might help, better outreach might help, but if the students don't want to come (and attendance is down in general I believe) it's going to take a student led push to get it back. The Athletic Department might look to seriously woo Greek Life to get them in the stands regularly
Greek Life probably has a lot to do with it. I don't see many Greek letters in the stands anymore. Not sure what can be done. It may need to be a grassroots effort to restore the student section but the Athletics Dept could aid any group if necessary. That's essentially how Loyola's student section got rebuilt (and it happened before Final 4 run).
Here is a good article explaining it: http://loyolaphoenix.com/2018/02/students-take-notice-ramblers-success/
Quote
Students Take Notice of Ramblers Success
By Kyle Brown
Published February 28, 2018 12:30 p.m. CT
As the final buzzer sounded in Loyola's 68-61 victory over Illinois State, Gentile Arena fans gave the Ramblers a standing ovation. The game further separated Loyola from the rest of the Missouri Valley Conference (MVC) and marked the first time Gentile Arena has sold out since 2003.
The 4,963 people who showed up for the last home game of the year was a dramatic increase from the previous high of 3,592 earlier in the season against Missouri State University.
Loyola having its best season in 33 years played a large part in increased attendance, but another key factor is the growth of The Pack, Loyola's official student section. The Pack is led by Marty Breslin, a junior double-majoring in finance and sport management, who also interns in the athletics department.
"We thought this year The Pack's main objective would be to get people to the game," Breslin said. "But, we realized like half way through the year that people were going to come [and] we were going to get all of these students there and now it was about keeping them engaged and making them as loud as possible."
With steady growing attendance, Breslin said The Pack was able to shift its focus from drawing fans into the stadium to making more noise and energy during the game. One of the ways it went about this was the creation of the "Rambler Rules," which are five "rules" for students to follow to keep them engaged all game while also creating a rowdy environment for the visiting team. The rules include being as loud as possible, not sitting down during the game and yelling "You let the whole team down," whenever an opponent misses a free throw.
The combination of the Ramblers' success and the increased energy at the games has created a buzz around campus; this year has been special and students are taking notice.
Marisa Dickens, a sophomore dance and film major, said she's attended a few games this season.
"There has been a lot more participation in the game," Dickens said. "I performed a dance piece at halftime of one of the games and there were a lot of fans which was cool."
One way Loyola and The Pack have been able to build up student attendance and involvement is by creating unique opportunities for student participation within the game such as launching fake burritos for a Chipotle gift card, displaying unique talents such as the dance Dickens performed and shooting baskets in hopes of winning free books for a semester.
Students are aware of the impact this season is having on Loyola as a whole.
"It says that we have a lot of diverse different groups that can perform well and are a good representation of Loyola, not just in academics but athletics as well," sophomore accounting major Paul Zougras said.
Breslin said he's excited about the future of The Pack. He's set for early graduation next fall, so he won't be as involved next season. However, he remains optimistic The Pack is in good hands and will continue to grow.
"Considering where we are setting the bar, I am so excited for where we can go from here," Breslin said. "We didn't know what we were going to end up with. We knew we were going to have a good team, people were going to show up, but we didn't know that they're going to show up in this many numbers and with this passion."
The student section got relocated behind the scorers table: http://loyolaphoenix.com/2017/11/nick-knacks-students-need-start-showing-loyola-games/
I will say that it looks like we're getting better. Low turnovers. Won the rebounding battle. Balanced scoring and Evelyn and Fazekas appear to be finding their shot. I think we have a chance to have a pretty good year this year. Not going to speculate much on the end result but I think there's a good chance that most of us will be pleased. Go Valpo!
I predicted that student attendance would be a problem this semester, but I had hoped we would see more than 14 in the student section at a Sunday afternoon game with temperatures in the mid-40s. There is blame to go around: student apathy, lack of promotion, weak scheduling and, perhaps most importantly, poor game-day experience. Nevertheless, proactively addressing this situation with actions that get results is long overdue. I believe there was an announcement at the game that students will receive free t-shirts on Tuesday when Valpo plays High Point. However, I question if that incentive even works any more.
In a message I posted when the schedule was announced back in August discussing issues like the poor game-day experience, which influences student attendance and overall attendance, I also warned about this week:
"The only D-1 games on the nonconference schedule while students are in town don't occur until the end of the semester, Dec. 2 & Dec. 4, within a 3-day period during the busiest week when papers are due and just before final exams. Therefore, during the whole Fall semester, students have only a 3-day window to watch a D-1 nonconference game at the ARC. Difficult, and maybe impossible, to build momentum of fan support with this schedule."
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on December 02, 2018, 03:57:41 PM
Going to be really embarrassing when Loyola shows up here with more students and those stupid scarfs than we've had all season.
Anyone else happy we aren't also talking about dysfunction and loses!!!!!
Two things I am sort of sick of reading about
1) attendance
2) ARC renovation
I suppose if these two topics are the primary posts that means we are winning! So keep complaining about something none of us can change!
😉😉😉
As someone else mentioned, attendance announced as 2112. The average attendance for home games this year thus far is a pathetic 2101, and the highest attendance was for the exhibition game. Those attendance numbers are horrible, especially for a program that expected excitement after leaving the lowly Horizon League and joining a new (perhaps top-10) conference. Valpo's first year in the Horizon League (with a mediocre team), overall home attendance was 3666 and attendance at the 9 home conference regular season games averaged 4137 as opposed to last year's home conference average of 2781—a difference of 1356 per game! Therefore, the strength (or lack of strength) of the opposition cannot be the primary reason for the attendance drop. I will repeat what I have said before: drastic moves (none of which I have heard yet) for improving attendance must be a focus for the Athletics administration, especially if looking for an increase in funding or other forms of support. The program has stepped up in league affiliation and on-court competition, but the game-day experience and overall environment for enticing fans has not been stepped up.
Quote from: valpopal on December 02, 2018, 06:16:39 PM
As someone else mentioned, attendance announced as 2112. The average attendance for home games this year thus far is a pathetic 2101, and the highest attendance was for the exhibition game. Those attendance numbers are horrible, especially for a program that expected excitement after leaving the lowly Horizon League and joining a new (perhaps top-10) conference. Valpo's first year in the Horizon League (with a mediocre team), overall home attendance was 3666 and attendance at the 9 home conference regular season games averaged 4137 as opposed to last year's home conference average of 2781—a difference of 1356 per game! Therefore, the strength (or lack of strength) of the opposition cannot be the primary reason for the attendance drop. I will repeat what I have said before: drastic moves (none of which I have heard yet) for improving attendance must be a focus for the Athletics administration, especially if looking for an increase in funding or other forms of support. The program has stepped up in league affiliation and on-court competition, but the game-day experience and overall environment for enticing fans has not been stepped up.
Times have changed. There are way more entertainment options these days. Plus look at who we have played at home so far. Less than compelling opponents and it goes head to head with the two regional NFL teams. I do agree that this all needs to be addressed. The Athletics Dept probably already knows that but the real question is how they plan on addressing it.
I can tell you from a scheduling standpoint that next season will be MUCH better which should help out. But this issue runs deeper than just who we play and that applies with student attendance as well.
A number of good things to point out: Smits had another fine game with 18 pts. and 6 rebs. Fazekas made 4 3-point shots. Good to see Sorolla on the court and developing his game legs. Evelyn seems to be finding his shot. Freeman had another solid performance and does not look like a freshman on the court. Golder had an outstanding 16 pts. in only 19 minutes. Overall, the team shooting was fine: 60% field goal (50% from 3pt.) and 70% from the free throw line. However, the silent but significant contribution again came from Lavender: 12 points on 6-8 shooting (made all the 2-pt. shots), 7 rebounds, 7 assists, only 1 turnover, and no fouls in 31 minutes of play!
MEN'S BASKETBALL: Valparaiso beats UC Riverside, but needs 'to develop a killer instinct'
Paul Oren Times Correspondent
Dec 2, 2018 Updated 19 min ago
https://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/valparaiso-university/men-s-basketball-valparaiso-beats-uc-riverside-but-needs-to/article_4c1797fc-fd5c-5634-aca5-8ffea64c810f.html
Oh, was there ever an explanation about Fazekas's Technical in the first half?
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 02, 2018, 05:53:09 PM
I will say that it looks like we're getting better. Low turnovers. Won the rebounding battle. Balanced scoring and Evelyn and Fazekas appear to be finding their shot. I think we have a chance to have a pretty good year this year. Not going to speculate much on the end result but I think there's a good chance that most of us will be pleased. Go Valpo!
I have now watched enough of our games and competing Valley games to confirm my preseason suspicion that nobody will walk away with the title or have any major chance for an at-large. With that said a healthy VU team in February could still be in the hunt. Also the champ will have a minimum 4 losses and maybe as many as 6. Watching us and the Valley continue to improve should make for an entertaining December and conference play should be a blast!
I'm also curious about the Fazekas T...thought the whistle was going to be on Smits (I think it was) pushing on a rebound attempt, but nope.
I'm beginning to believe that this team has the potential to be a real force in the MVC this year. As others have accurately stated, there are several areas that need improvement, but this team is making strides game by game and seems hungry for more. As to not being able to put Riverside away, not all of that was lack of killer instinct. Part of it was Riverside shooting out of their minds from 3 in clutch situations with the clock running down. Earlier in the season, that might have spelled disaster, but when Riverside got hot we were able to match them basket for basket. Imagine how frustrated they must have felt, playing over their heads offensively, but unable to stop us defensively.
Pretty cool to hear Rik was at the game. I bet he could play a little.
https://twitter.com/ranta6/status/1069319119730864128
I believe the Fazekas T was for verbal activity, not physical!
Quote from: sliman on December 02, 2018, 08:30:39 PM
I believe the Fazekas T was for verbal activity, not physical!
I was driving in the car and I heard them mention on the radio that it was something verbal. Not sure what it is. It could have been something as a simple as Fazekas disagreeing with the call and the ref having a short fuze that day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo8V71x_q6A
Quote from: valpopal on December 02, 2018, 06:16:39 PM
As someone else mentioned, attendance announced as 2112. The average attendance for home games this year thus far is a pathetic 2101, and the highest attendance was for the exhibition game. Those attendance numbers are horrible, especially for a program that expected excitement after leaving the lowly Horizon League and joining a new (perhaps top-10) conference. Valpo's first year in the Horizon League (with a mediocre team), overall home attendance was 3666 and attendance at the 9 home conference regular season games averaged 4137 as opposed to last year's home conference average of 2781—a difference of 1356 per game! Therefore, the strength (or lack of strength) of the opposition cannot be the primary reason for the attendance drop. I will repeat what I have said before: drastic moves (none of which I have heard yet) for improving attendance must be a focus for the Athletics administration, especially if looking for an increase in funding or other forms of support. The program has stepped up in league affiliation and on-court competition, but the game-day experience and overall environment for enticing fans has not been stepped up.
I don't think comparisons between our move to the HL and our move to the MVC are fair. It was a different world back then.
Streaming and digital media hadn't proliferated yet
Newspaper coverage and readership were both far more extensive
Campus culture was more sport-friendly
The age and deficiencies of the ARC such as they are weren't as glaring
P5s still scheduled reasonably fairly
Realignment hadn't yet created such a sizable gap between the top leagues and the best mids
We had a ready made rival in Butler which significantly goosed those attendance numbers.
We also got 4 Saturday home games in year 1 of the HL vs just 2 in year 1 of the MVC
But here is perhaps the biggest potential reason for the early buzz for the move to the HL as compared to the MVC move: The benefits of the move were able to be seen on the screen as opposed to having to be explained with numbers and metrics. Prior to Valpo joining for the 07-08 season the following things were true of the HL:
It had placed multiple teams into the tournament two times in the previous five years (03 and 07)
Its teams had won at least their first round matchup in the NCAA Tournament in four of the previous five years (each year except 04)
Its teams had advanced to the Sweet 16 in 3 of the previous 5 years
The teams responsible for that success (Butler Milwaukee and Wright State) were still a part of that conference
By contrast, the following was true of the MVC when Valpo joined in 17-18:
All of their tournament success over the past several years save for two wins by Northern Iowa had left for other conferences and they were coming off a season in which the conference had received just one bid The perception of the MVC when we joined was no doubt lower than that of the HL of ten years ago. That's why we had to turn to numbers metrics and media coverage opportunities to make our point that this was a good move. I think we'll see a positive change in that perception following Loyola's run particularly if Loyola or somebody else follows it up with another deep run. But most importantly we have to win and make a deep run ourselves.
None of this absolves anyone of any responsibility but at least there are some reasons so we know what to counteract. What we need is to build excitement either by winning or hoping another team reaches prominence by winning. I expect people to show up for Bradley ISUr and especially Loyola If ISUb and Drake keep winning people will come see them too. We just need time for the rivalries to develop and familiarity to build.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 02, 2018, 09:00:19 PM
Quote from: valpopal on December 02, 2018, 06:16:39 PM
As someone else mentioned, attendance announced as 2112. The average attendance for home games this year thus far is a pathetic 2101, and the highest attendance was for the exhibition game. Those attendance numbers are horrible, especially for a program that expected excitement after leaving the lowly Horizon League and joining a new (perhaps top-10) conference. Valpo's first year in the Horizon League (with a mediocre team), overall home attendance was 3666 and attendance at the 9 home conference regular season games averaged 4137 as opposed to last year's home conference average of 2781—a difference of 1356 per game! Therefore, the strength (or lack of strength) of the opposition cannot be the primary reason for the attendance drop. I will repeat what I have said before: drastic moves (none of which I have heard yet) for improving attendance must be a focus for the Athletics administration, especially if looking for an increase in funding or other forms of support. The program has stepped up in league affiliation and on-court competition, but the game-day experience and overall environment for enticing fans has not been stepped up.
I don't think comparisons between our move to the HL and our move to the MVC are fair. It was a different world back then.
Streaming and digital media hadn't proliferated yet
Newspaper coverage and readership were both far more extensive
Campus culture was more sport-friendly
The age and deficiencies of the ARC such as they are weren't as glaring
P5s still scheduled reasonably fairly
Realignment hadn't yet created such a sizable gap between the top leagues and the best mids
We had a ready made rival in Butler which significantly goosed those attendance numbers.
We also got 4 Saturday home games in year 1 of the HL vs just 2 in year 1 of the MVC
But here is perhaps the biggest potential reason for the early buzz for the move to the HL as compared to the MVC move: The benefits of the move were able to be seen on the screen as opposed to having to be explained with numbers and metrics. Prior to Valpo joining for the 07-08 season the following things were true of the HL:
It had placed multiple teams into the tournament two times in the previous five years (03 and 07)
Its teams had won at least their first round matchup in the NCAA Tournament in four of the previous five years (each year except 04)
Its teams had advanced to the Sweet 16 in 3 of the previous 5 years
The teams responsible for that success (Butler Milwaukee and Wright State) were still a part of that conference
By contrast, the following was true of the MVC when Valpo joined in 17-18:
All of their tournament success over the past several years save for two wins by Northern Iowa had left for other conferences and they were coming off a season in which the conference had received just one bid The perception of the MVC when we joined was no doubt lower than that of the HL of ten years ago. That's why we had to turn to numbers metrics and media coverage opportunities to make our point that this was a good move. I think we'll see a positive change in that perception following Loyola's run particularly if Loyola or somebody else follows it up with another deep run. But most importantly we have to win and make a deep run ourselves.
None of this absolves anyone of any responsibility but at least there are some reasons so we know what to counteract. What we need is to build excitement either by winning or hoping another team reaches prominence by winning. I expect people to show up for Bradley ISUr and especially Loyola If ISUb and Drake keep winning people will come see them too. We just need time for the rivalries to develop and familiarity to build.
Even if everything you say is granted, it doesn't explain why the first year in the MVC, which presented ample opportunities for promotion of a new and exciting conference, had lower average attendance than ANY year we played in the Horizon League—before or after Butler and with good team records or mediocre team records. I still believe the program elevated its conference and competition on the court, but the promotion and game-day experience hasn't kept pace.
I'm not necessarily arguing your point I'm just trying to see if there are any factors\variables at play as well as see it from the eyes of the average fan. I don't understand why attendance didn't skyrocket when we joined the MVC. I'm trying to understand whether it's all on the administration\department the coaching staff the students the community or what. I think all share some responsibility in finding solutions but I know that the department and coaches are trying. It really might be as simple as we need a run to jumpstart the program and capture people's hearts again. That or we need to develop rivals.
Quote from: valpopal on December 02, 2018, 09:14:59 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on December 02, 2018, 09:00:19 PM
Quote from: valpopal on December 02, 2018, 06:16:39 PM
As someone else mentioned, attendance announced as 2112. The average attendance for home games this year thus far is a pathetic 2101, and the highest attendance was for the exhibition game. Those attendance numbers are horrible, especially for a program that expected excitement after leaving the lowly Horizon League and joining a new (perhaps top-10) conference. Valpo's first year in the Horizon League (with a mediocre team), overall home attendance was 3666 and attendance at the 9 home conference regular season games averaged 4137 as opposed to last year's home conference average of 2781—a difference of 1356 per game! Therefore, the strength (or lack of strength) of the opposition cannot be the primary reason for the attendance drop. I will repeat what I have said before: drastic moves (none of which I have heard yet) for improving attendance must be a focus for the Athletics administration, especially if looking for an increase in funding or other forms of support. The program has stepped up in league affiliation and on-court competition, but the game-day experience and overall environment for enticing fans has not been stepped up.
I don't think comparisons between our move to the HL and our move to the MVC are fair. It was a different world back then.
Streaming and digital media hadn't proliferated yet
Newspaper coverage and readership were both far more extensive
Campus culture was more sport-friendly
The age and deficiencies of the ARC such as they are weren't as glaring
P5s still scheduled reasonably fairly
Realignment hadn't yet created such a sizable gap between the top leagues and the best mids
We had a ready made rival in Butler which significantly goosed those attendance numbers.
We also got 4 Saturday home games in year 1 of the HL vs just 2 in year 1 of the MVC
But here is perhaps the biggest potential reason for the early buzz for the move to the HL as compared to the MVC move: The benefits of the move were able to be seen on the screen as opposed to having to be explained with numbers and metrics. Prior to Valpo joining for the 07-08 season the following things were true of the HL:
It had placed multiple teams into the tournament two times in the previous five years (03 and 07)
Its teams had won at least their first round matchup in the NCAA Tournament in four of the previous five years (each year except 04)
Its teams had advanced to the Sweet 16 in 3 of the previous 5 years
The teams responsible for that success (Butler Milwaukee and Wright State) were still a part of that conference
By contrast, the following was true of the MVC when Valpo joined in 17-18:
All of their tournament success over the past several years save for two wins by Northern Iowa had left for other conferences and they were coming off a season in which the conference had received just one bid The perception of the MVC when we joined was no doubt lower than that of the HL of ten years ago. That's why we had to turn to numbers metrics and media coverage opportunities to make our point that this was a good move. I think we'll see a positive change in that perception following Loyola's run particularly if Loyola or somebody else follows it up with another deep run. But most importantly we have to win and make a deep run ourselves.
None of this absolves anyone of any responsibility but at least there are some reasons so we know what to counteract. What we need is to build excitement either by winning or hoping another team reaches prominence by winning. I expect people to show up for Bradley ISUr and especially Loyola If ISUb and Drake keep winning people will come see them too. We just need time for the rivalries to develop and familiarity to build.
Even if everything you say is granted, it doesn't explain why the first year in the MVC, which presented ample opportunities for promotion of a new and exciting conference, had lower average attendance than ANY year we played in the Horizon League—before or after Butler and with good team records or mediocre team records. I still believe the program elevated its conference and competition on the court, but the promotion and game-day experience hasn't kept pace.
Great exchange of views, guys. Interesting and informative points.
One factor you all have not discussed regarding attendance is how much of a factor is the fact that the Drew family has moved to Nashville. A Long time Family based in Valpo with Valpo HS grad coach with lots of friends and family members are not at the ARC anymore. The local interest has to be down considerably.
Golder with only 19 minutes in this game and only averaging 22 minutes per game for the season.
Yet he is 56% from the floor and 45% from 3 for the season. I am very surprised he doesn't get more minutes.
Quote from: valpo84 on December 02, 2018, 09:48:05 PM
One factor you all have not discussed regarding attendance is how much of a factor is the fact that the Drew family has moved to Nashville. A Long time Family based in Valpo with Valpo HS grad coach with lots of friends and family members are not at the ARC anymore. The local interest has to be down considerably.
This is a great point that many may not remember is how much excitement the Drew family brought to Valpo.
I think the most frustrating thing for me is this has been a growing issue for a number of years now and I don't seem to see much has changed in our marketing approach. Maybe we're no longer in the era of local billboards and schedule cards at the counter of local businesses making much of a difference, but if I didn't follow the team on social media, my tickets would be the only reminder for any given game.
The Hammond practice was a nice, outside the box idea, it was but poorly executed and I really don't think Lake County cares about Vu. But it was an attempt. Now we need more. Try a bunch of things and something may stick.
Remember that when we were in the HL and before, we were figured to win it or at least be in the top tier of the standings almost every year. Expectations were ALWAYS high. Then last year, our first in the MVC, we were picked to finish I believe in the bottom half, at or near the bottom. We were not expected to be good and with the upgrade in competition, we were not good. Forget the pre-season wins against questionable competition. Now this year we were picked to be 7th(?). Let's face it, those numbers don't drum up much excitement after our recent successes prior to joining the MVC. Remember Loyola when they first joined the MVC? Many were making fun of their poor program, attendance, lack of success in a lesser conference, etc. WINNING PUTS BUTTS IN THE SEATS! With the demands on consumers from people trying to win the the consumer's dollars spent on entertainment, fans are looking to spend their money on a good or great product. A winning team produces results...a 15/17 record does not. I think too many of us expected way too much when we up-graded to the MVC. It takes time! While the Drew family produced many fine results in different ways, now that they are gone is not a legitimate excuse for attendance dwindling. Let's get over it folks. We are improving this year and will continue to do so. If that continues to happen, attendance and interest will improve.
I will stick to my prior one that it's been a gradual slipping of culture that started in the Drew years. While the allure of a decent Basketball team is something that could encourage people to come my guess is that for people who really cared about basketball they already had "a team". I think of my husband who went to Valpo but had already been a tried and true Michigan fan and that is what remains to this day. While "The Shot" and such were awesome, even by my time there was this feeling like it was just another story of the University, not something that meant we were all supposed to go to the game (in my time, even though we made the tournament 2x) the biggest noise around a game I remember was when Larry Bird came to scout a player from the other team.
So, since people aren't coming in necessarily looking for a team or prepped to be all about Valpo it's gotta be a student culture thing that carries the momentum, I have been around campus through the Broekoff and Peters years and I can tell you that the biggest change I've seen is not in marketing/competitors/greek life competing etc. It was the way the team interacted with the students. Vashil was the last of the crew and he graduated 5 years ago. That means there are no students left on campus who remember a team that ran to the stands to celebrate their wins. That were involved in other orgs, etc. They will need to start over and start fresh. It takes about 4 years for something to die and then 4 more years for it to regrow on a college campus where memories of the student body are short even as they are long for Alums and staff and faculty. The team this year is very much more engaged but it's going to take way more effort to include the students in game day activity and to truly get people out to support the team.
My other, small theory is that students today continue to be over-programmed and over stressed and that, asking them to find a 3 hour time to go to a game is becoming a steeper and steeper ask when evening nights and afternoons become either homework time or time for seven hundred other meetings and when they do have free time they're exhausted and just want to lie around watching tv.
valpo 64 and crusader05 - excellent posts, though I should point out that Vashil's last season at Valpo was 2015-2016, so that is much more recent. Furthermore, remember the great player-student interaction following the Rhode Island game in 2016-2017. The environment that everyone wants again existed quite recently. I have railed against the non conference schedule as that is one of the (far and away) two greatest factors that drives attendance - but the top factor is perceived quality of the team (valpo64 really hits the nail on the head). In fact, if Valpo is 'in the hunt' for the MVC championship come February, I would bet that the ARC will be close to full for key home games down the stretch. The good news is that gaining interest in today's high information world can be much faster.