I don't know what has happened, but I suspect that bits and pieces may trickle out for months or years.
If anyone wants to speculate on why the whole program has exploded lets put it here. Looks to me that multiple conflicts might have been ongoing.
Golder played like trash during Feb. Was it injury or foot dragging related?
This could be dangerous because there is a lot of speculation and little facts. I do wonder what is going on behind the scenes.
If I had to guess, Lottich more of a drill Sargent who push and pushed but did not teach or break things down. Without the assistants we had last year, there was no comfort or voice of reasoning. Lottich's "work harder" more "gritt" solution to all the problems led to injuries and disgruntlement.
The players don't believe or have confidence in Lottich and that's why many are leaving.
Again, I'm not in the gym but this is my guess. Via bakari, It sounds like there were conversations on the bus rides. No wonder Lottich didn't like the travel.
I mean we can speculate and speculate but it actually doesn't matter the reasons. It is what it is.
This isn't the NBA. There's not a GM to blame for roster construction. While a head coach obviously doesn't get every player he wants, he is in complete control as to who he chooses to bring into the program. Whether Lottich ran them off with his attitude or he didn't understand the mentality when he offered them a spot, it's on him.
I think we owe VU2010 an apology:
VU2010 if you're reading this you were right and I'm sorry for doubting you...
Speculation is dangerous so I'll speculate..... :rotfl:
Sadly, I think some folks - at this point - are in a state of hibernation. Stepping away from the blogs and such. Just painful to observe what's going on right now. As for me, it's therapeutic.
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on March 21, 2019, 10:03:15 PM
Sadly, I think some folks - at this point - are in a state of hibernation. Stepping away from the blogs and such. Just painful to observe what's going on right now. As for me, it's therapeutic.
You like to see Valpo suffering?
I'm here right now because I'm pissed. I should step away but I can't. I care too much. Sadly people with actual power don't. Too bad.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 21, 2019, 03:00:22 PMThis isn't the NBA. There's not a GM to blame for roster construction. While a head coach obviously doesn't get every player he wants, he is in complete control as to who he chooses to bring into the program. Whether Lottich ran them off with his attitude or he didn't understand the mentality when he offered them a spot, it's on him.
Some or all of the blame will fall on Lottich and the guy who needs to figure everything out is Mark LaBarbera.
This is obviously a critical juncture and you can't go forward until you fully understand what just happened. The AD needs to talk at length with everybody. This includes departing players, returning players, and the fathers, mothers and guardians of all of them. Don't forget assistant coaches, media gossips ::), and he should probably spend a couple of full hours with Deion Lavender. The background and insight that Deion could provide might explain volumes. Matt should probably be interviewed last. Then he should make the call and share little or none of it with us.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 21, 2019, 10:12:58 PM
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on March 21, 2019, 10:03:15 PM
Sadly, I think some folks - at this point - are in a state of hibernation. Stepping away from the blogs and such. Just painful to observe what's going on right now. As for me, it's therapeutic.
You like to see Valpo suffering?
I'm here right now because I'm pissed. I should step away but I can't. I care too much. Sadly people with actual power don't. Too bad.
All I can say is I'd hate to be around you if your car were to break down or your HVAC would go out. You'd whine and moan so much but you would never get anything done but trash the HVAC or push the brokedown car off a hill/mountain. At some point you realize what you have and that you must make the best of the situation because you either have the money to buy a new HVAC unit or a new car or you get the brokedown car repaired or the HVAC unit repaired as best as it can be. Does whining and moaning get you anywhere at all? NO! Not one thing does whining and moaning get you. You just keep repeating the whining and moaning and you have no power to replace the car or HVAC unit.
That's what I've been saying This is a time for leadership. We need the people in charge to step up and lead us now and all we've gotten is a statement from Lottich. We don't even know if the outflow of transfers is over yet. Nobody has given us any plan or timetable for facility upgrades or asked us for or told us how we could help in any meaningful way. It could be and probably is true that everyone from top to bottom cares about the situation but what could be a lot of effort behind the scenes but is resulting in no concrete action or campaigns looks to us like they're doing nothing and don't really care. If they started a grassroots campaign collecting money at games for specific athletics purchases in 1998 after The Shot I bet at least some if not most of these problems would be solved by now with just spare change. We can't help or do anything if we don't know their goals their expected timetable and how much the cost is. They're just waiting for a big donation without telling us how big it needs to be. Again they give a strong indication that they don't care much about athletics. That's probably not true nor is it their intention but that's the way it looks. I know my generation we're not patient people. Many won't wait or even be as patient as I have. I at least gave Lottich 2.5 years and as mad as I am I'm not jumping ship but we all know something needs to be done and fast. You talk about fixing the system or the car. I'm here with tools. Let's get fixing. Tell me how to employ what little I have and I will help however I can. That's all I ask. Let's make a plan and execute it instead of all this high minded talk.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 22, 2019, 02:05:48 PM
That's what I've been saying This is a time for leadership. We need the people in charge to step up and lead us now and all we've gotten is a statement from Lottich. We don't even know if the outflow of transfers is over yet. Nobody has given us any plan or timetable for facility upgrades or asked us for or told us how we could help in any meaningful way. It could be and probably is true that everyone from top to bottom cares about the situation but what could be a lot of effort behind the scenes but is resulting in no concrete action or campaigns looks to us like they're doing nothing and don't really care. If they started a grassroots campaign collecting money at games for specific athletics purchases in 1998 after The Shot I bet at least some if not most of these problems would be solved by now with just spare change. We can't help or do anything if we don't know their goals their expected timetable and how much the cost is. They're just waiting for a big donation without telling us how big it needs to be. Again they give a strong indication that they don't care much about athletics. That's probably not true nor is it their intention but that's the way it looks. I know my generation we're not patient people. Many won't wait or even be as patient as I have. I at least gave Lottich 2.5 years and as mad as I am I'm not jumping ship but we all know something needs to be done and fast. You talk about fixing the system or the car. I'm here with tools. Let's get fixing. Tell me how to employ what little I have and I will help however I can. That's all I ask. Let's make a plan and execute it instead of all this high minded talk.
So you have no power to fix the problems with the players or pay for the renovations of the ARC. What tools do you actually have? Nothing really. You don't actually own any of the property on the Valparaiso University campus. You are as helpless as anyone on this message board to actually do anything to help fix the situation except one thing. What can you really do as a Valpo fan that would actually help the situation when you know the same head coach will most likely be back next year. What can you do to actually help the MBB situation at Valpo right this moment on this message board?
I know what you're trying to say: change the tone of my post and be more positive. That is extremely hard to do when there isn't much to be positive about. I deal in facts and reality and the reality we face is not pleasant right now in the least. Give me something to work with and I'll try to be positive and maybe get back to the optimistic poster you knew before but I need something. I can't lie. It is extremely difficult for me. I can't say everything is okay when it clearly isn't. I can't say I trust our coach and the direction of our program when I really and truly don't.
When I say this is therapeutic for me ... I'm saying it's cathartic. If for no other reason than because we can at least express our emotions here and feel some sense of relief - despite it being on deaf ears or preaching to the choir
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 22, 2019, 02:32:15 PM
I know what you're trying to say: change the tone of my post and be more positive. That is extremely hard to do when there isn't much to be positive about. I deal in facts and reality and the reality we face is not pleasant right now in the least. Give me something to work with and I'll try to be positive and maybe get back to the optimistic poster you knew before but I need something. I can't lie. It is extremely difficult for me. I can't say everything is okay when it clearly isn't. I can't say I trust our coach and the direction of our program when I really and truly don't.
So the alternative is.........................
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on March 22, 2019, 02:55:41 PMdespite it being on deaf ears or preaching to the choir
There in is the issue. Those aren't all deaf ears and some people reading this are not in the choir. Some are possible recruits looking at possibly filling spots on Valpo's MBB team or could be in the future. Robbie Hummel heard a lot of comments about the bad things about Valpo MBB before he made a decision on where to attend college.
Quote from: bbtds on March 22, 2019, 03:01:06 PMThose aren't all deaf ears and some people reading this are not in the choir. Some are possible recruits looking at possibly filling spots on Valpo's MBB team or could be in the future. Robbie Hummel heard a lot of comments about the bad things about Valpo MBB before he made a decision on where to attend college.
Are you saying that Robbie Hummel, who went to Valpo HS, didn't attend VU because of anonymous complaints on a message board?
If the message board is really that powerful, then maybe the university should reach out and help assuage our concerns. Because I'm not ok with being quiet and pretending that everything is fine, when it's clearly not.
Any player, coach, or administrator who makes a decision based on a message board should have their head examined. This is a place for FANS to react, overreact, joke, kick around ideas, and vent.
Quote from: mj on March 22, 2019, 03:14:51 PM
Quote from: bbtds on March 22, 2019, 03:01:06 PMThose aren't all deaf ears and some people reading this are not in the choir. Some are possible recruits looking at possibly filling spots on Valpo's MBB team or could be in the future. Robbie Hummel heard a lot of comments about the bad things about Valpo MBB before he made a decision on where to attend college.
Are you saying that Robbie Hummel, who went to Valpo HS, didn't attend VU because of anonymous complaints on a message board?
If the message board is really that powerful, then maybe the university should reach out and help assuage our concerns. Because I'm not ok with being quiet and pretending that everything is fine, when it's clearly not.
No, you missed the point. Robbie heard a lot of negative comments growing up in Valpo when message boards and the internet didn't mean that much. But he heard comments from the fans as a grade school student before Bryce, and the other local Valpo HS grads decided to transfer to VU. He knew the negative stuff because he had heard it over and over until it was second nature to him that Valpo's program could not rise to the level of a Purdue, Indiana or Notre Dame. The negative comments re-emphasized that Valpo would never be a program to play for. Bryce and the other VHS grads who transferred to VU changed that for a while.
Yes, the Valpo program is at a crossroads, the coach will not be changed, what can you do to help the program? It isn't to keep trashing it in front of people that will influence the decisions of youth that could actually change the program and help it build up to be as powerful as Purdue, Indiana or Notre Dame.
The timing on that doesn't add up. Robbie wasn't in middle school until Bryce graduated. Born in '89.
Oh so we're actually not allowed to say anything negative in public about the program.
Is Valpo basketball some kind of cult now? It can't fail, it can only be failed?
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on March 22, 2019, 02:55:41 PMWhen I say this is therapeutic for me ... I'm saying it's cathartic.
Your selection of words and phrasing are much improved. :thumbsup: Don't backslide.
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on March 22, 2019, 02:55:41 PMIf for no other reason than because we can at least express our emotions here and feel some sense of relief - despite it being on deaf ears or preaching to the choir
Neither the team or this choir have displayed much recent harmony. Kind of reminds me of the Geico barbershop quartet basketball commercial. Maybe they should be our top recruits?
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 22, 2019, 03:35:10 PM
The timing on that doesn't add up. Robbie wasn't in middle school until Bryce graduated. Born in '89.
Robbie was 5, 6, 7. It certainly does leave an impression.
Quote from: bbtds on March 22, 2019, 03:29:07 PMas a grade school student
Okay...I'm going to try to foray into this shattering glass case of emotions. I understand the catharsis of having a space to get some of the built up emotions out, truly we are all frustrated with the potential that the team has not lived up to over the last few seasons (starting with the Peters injury) That said, a couple of you really might want to consider taking a step back from the whole situation for your own sanity. Pro sports aren't worth getting this worked up about let alone mid major basketball. If you want to follow along, then do so, but don't go sniffing around on other team's message boards, of course their going to say things that will upset you. We said the same thing about the MVC taking Loyola over us years ago when they finished at the back of the pack and we were solidly atop the Horizon league standings. Stop torturing yourselves.
I lived through the 08-09 season in the student section. 9-22. 5-13 in the HL (2nd year in the league). Numerous injuries. Dissension in the ranks was the word on campus, players did not speak particularly well of Homer. 4 players transferred. Did you know, Valpo's conference record in it's first 2 HL seasons was 14-22? Our conference record in 2 seasons in the MVC is 13-23. Not saying that everything is how we want it to be. Finishing out this year 2-10 is egregious. All I'm saying is that we worked our way up to the top of the HL in time and it looked like a dumpster fire after year 2. Don't trust Lottich to lead the turnaround? Can't fault the feeling, but I'm not sure it's as bad as is speculated here...we simply don't know. Again, a few better executed open shots and the team easily has 4 or 5 more wins this year (coulda woulda shoulda).
Here's the reality of the moment. Add a sharpshooter and a big guy, maybe a glue guy and a sit out transfer and I think you're looking capable.
Senior
Jaume Sorrolla
Ryan Fazekas
John Kiser
Micah Bradford?
Junior
Eron Gordon
Nick Robinson
Mileek McMillan
Sophmore
Daniel Sackey
Langston Stalling
Freshman
Clay Donovan
PG Daniel Sackey
SG Eron Gordon
SF Nick Robinson
PF Ryan Fazekas
C Jaume Sorolla
6 Clay Donovan
7 Micah Bradford
8 Mileek McMillan
9 John Kiser
10 Langston Stalling
OPEN
OPEN
OPEN
OPEN
When does the other kid from VHS come back from his mission?
Quote from: M on March 22, 2019, 05:11:25 PMWhen does the other kid from VHS come back from his mission?
Steven Helm is on a two year mission, So he will be out one more year. Though, I believe he will only be an end of the bench guy
Quote from: mj on March 22, 2019, 03:45:54 PM
Oh so we're actually not allowed to say anything negative in public about the program.
Is Valpo basketball some kind of cult now? It can't fail, it can only be failed?
If you call the overwhelming "woe is me" that certain members of this message board have been exhibiting since the announced transfers "anything negative" then you are really kidding yourself. The unprecidented whining and moaning about losing players that were never actually proven is something this message board or it's previous versions had never seen before. I really wish Javon had stayed. We will miss him.
Quote from: bbtds on March 22, 2019, 09:24:58 PM
Quote from: mj on March 22, 2019, 03:45:54 PM
Oh so we're actually not allowed to say anything negative in public about the program.
Is Valpo basketball some kind of cult now? It can't fail, it can only be failed?
If you call the overwhelming "woe is me" that certain members of this message board have been exhibiting since the announced transfers "anything negative" then you are really kidding yourself. The unprecidented whining and moaning about losing players that were never actually proven is something this message board or it's previous versions had never seen before. I really wish Javon had stayed. We will miss him.
I'd have to agree with "mj". This is a forum on Valpo basketball, not a church bible study group. There is going to be negativity, I don't know what Cub Scout group existed "back when", but is this not healthy to share concerns and opinions?
For myself, via posting/reading, I've been persuaded to adjust my view point. Please don't censor the enthusiasm of fellow fans. We all have topics that get us fired up, no ones infallible.
But yeah, we all can be over the top!
In my opinion the negativity was not the earlier problem for me, people are entitled to their own opinion! Early there seemed to be a lot of attacking fellow posters for disagreeing and aiming the anger at others. That has dissipated and so, when I need a break from the negativity I just don't read the threads for a few days, but I don't feel that it's been too bad the last week or so all things considered.
Bbtds - at the board of trustee and leadership level, Valpo has no intention to be as great as Purdue, Indiana or Notre Dame. There is no commitment or vision for the university to be at that level.
Now that Robert Mueller is finished with his previous job let's bring him in to get to the bottom of these transfers.
Quote from: crusader05 on March 23, 2019, 07:27:37 AM
In my opinion the negativity was not the earlier problem for me, people are entitled to their own opinion! Early there seemed to be a lot of attacking fellow posters for disagreeing and aiming the anger at others. That has dissipated and so, when I need a break from the negativity I just don't read the threads for a few days, but I don't feel that it's been too bad the last week or so all things considered.
I'm not the only one to see it. The same posters that are fairly negative most of the time, and many times I can be just as guilty because I get frustrated too, but those posts after the announced transfers we're 1.Valpo is doomed, 2. Coach needs fired, 3. Program will forever be scared, 4. It's all the coach's fault, 5. Since so many players are transferring it must be coaches fault, 6. Won't be Valpo fan any longer, etc. We have been through meltdowns before in the 13 to 15 years I've been on the 4? versions of Valpo message boards through 3 conferences and this had to be the biggest meltdown we have ever seen. Ask the others who have posted or read these Valpo message boards for this long. It was not only to an extreme but very excessive in number of posts. The Valpo MBB program will survive and it will be great again. It may take longer than many of us want but it will happen.
Quote from: JD24 on March 23, 2019, 11:11:32 AMMaybe this is just an injury prone human being which has message board posters trying to pin every possible perceived wrong on the coach or program in general.
I believe JD24 noticed how bad the negativity got.
Oh i'm not denying the board has gotten excessively negative. What I think has improved slightly is there were a few posters who were constantly in here yelling at others for not fully agreeing with them. I feel like that has improved although it could just be that I've been less on here because of how angry everyone is in general and have posted less!
My opinion is along the same line as yours. This sucks, some things need to be looked at, but I don't feel it's the dire end AND I don't feel like we truly know or understand what happened to the team these last two seasons and may never will.
Quote from: crusader05 on March 24, 2019, 08:03:56 AM
Oh i'm not denying the board has gotten excessively negative. What I think has improved slightly is there were a few posters who were constantly in here yelling at others for not fully agreeing with them. I feel like that has improved although it could just be that I've been less on here because of how angry everyone is in general and have posted less!
My opinion is along the same line as yours. This sucks, some things need to be looked at, but I don't feel it's the dire end AND I don't feel like we truly know or understand what happened to the team these last two seasons and may never will.
It's possible that the lack of a tenured coach (Drew's) combined with a new conference has most of us even more on edge. I don't believe you can compared the HL move to this one because we felt Bryce was the golden child and would find a way out of a poor start.
Bluntly put, none of us want to become another private university that can't win in the valley (see Evansville). There is a real chance we are looking at a moderate to long downturn and none of us want that. So it's conceivable that some of us go kicking and screaming.
Now for my opinion, time will tell. I don't blame ppl getting their therapy by venting on this forum. I started out acting like the police and I mellowed out. Maybe some of our fellow posters need to get their venting done here. However, they can't be surprised when guys that have been on this forum far longer than me knock them down a peg.
I'm entertained and learn here, keep it up all!!!
Quote from: crusader05 on March 24, 2019, 08:03:56 AM
Oh i'm not denying the board has gotten excessively negative. What I think has improved slightly is there were a few posters who were constantly in here yelling at others for not fully agreeing with them. I feel like that has improved although it could just be that I've been less on here because of how angry everyone is in general and have posted less!
My opinion is along the same line as yours. This sucks, some things need to be looked at, but I don't feel it's the dire end AND I don't feel like we truly know or understand what happened to the team these last two seasons and may never will.
Like 05, when I started seeing the intensity and lashing out, I backed away only adding a thought here and there that I thought might help get things moving in a solution solving direction. I am glad things have settled down and that cooler minds have reemerged. Having said that, my major concern is that if the program weathers this crisis, and it is a crisis in my opinion, that the "university" will breathe a sigh of relief, think "well, we got through that," and continue business as usual. In my 10 years of first lurking and then eventually participating in this forum, no series of events like this in my memory has hit so hard. If a wake up call to the powers that be every existed, this is it.
I am reminded of my late father. Back in 2000, he helped me finance a boat and got all excited about sailing in the Caribbean with us. Well, that wasn't really accurate. He got excited about "the idea of sailing." Once we had the boat, he much preferred to be on the boat while it was docked so he could putter on little projects. I hope that Valpo isn't just invested in the "idea of MVC membership" and realizes that at the MVC level it has to go all-in or lose everything.
Quote from: VULB#62 on March 24, 2019, 09:29:56 AM. I am glad things have settled down and that cooler minds have reemerged. Having said that, my major concern is that if the program weathers this crisis, and it is a crisis in my opinion, that the "university" will breathe a sigh of relief, think "well, we got through that," and continue business as usual.
One thing that the university can't deny is that attendance at the home games keeps going down and in the end it will cost the Athletic Dept in it's general fund which costs the university more to keep the Athletic Dept going. Maybe football will just add more players and make up the revenue stream from MBB attendance.
At schools like Valpo the interest in sports is dying
Look at the attendance for some of these NIT games
People are into other things. The days of fan frenzy at games...at least for us...is over
We are in a conference that none of our teams can win
It's just the nature of things
Instead of watching others play sports more people are out there doing them.
We have the same people at our games year after year with no new influx
Several reasons for this and none are easily fixed.
Quote from: Valpo2013 on March 24, 2019, 12:02:25 PM
At schools like Valpo the interest in sports is dying
Look at the attendance for some of these NIT games
People are into other things. The days of fan frenzy at games...at least for us...is over
We are in a conference that none of our teams can win
It's just the nature of things
Instead of watching others play sports more people are out there doing them.
We have the same people at our games year after year with no new influx
Several reasons for this and none are easily fixed.
The Zag fans would seem to be the outliers in MBB but I have a feeling it's not true at many MBB programs, especially the ones that are on an upswing much like Valpo WAS since winning in the HL. We are at a crossroads but have had much luck over time finding the Walt Reiners, Em Bauers, Gene Bartows and Homer Drews.
The Zags may be outliers, but 20 years ago today, they were in essentially the same spot as Valpo, with Valpo having the arguably higher name recognition and potential at that time.
One school used their first Cinderella run to reinvest seriously in their program and facilities, and built a juggernaut that eventually became a #1 seed despite never moving from their midmajor conference. The other stood pat, content to not rock the boat, only moving to a higher level when conditions worsened in their respective midmajor leagues, but let the good reputation of their coaches carry the day instead of preparing for life without them.
We're seeing the results of those very different approaches today. (And yes, there's no reason Valpo couldn't be much closer to where the Zags are today if they had shown the same institutional commitment way back then).
QuoteGonzaga by the numbers: 1999 vs. 2017
Author: Erin Robinson , KREM
Published: 11:10 AM PDT March 30, 2017
Updated: 8:43 PM PDT March 30, 2017
SPOKANE, Wash. – Quite a few things have changed at Gonzaga University between the time the Bulldogs made their first NCAA Tournament appearance and now, as they head into their first Final Four.
Gonzaga released a few key figures that have changed from 1999 to 2017.
According to Gonzaga data:
• Total enrollment has increased 86.4 percent in the last 18 years. In 1999, the student enrollment was 4,061, while it now is up to 7,572.
• Undergraduate admission applications have grown nearly 300 percent, from 1,841 applications to 7,342.
• Freshman enrollment rose 124.9 percent, from 569 to 1,280 freshmen.
• The annual budget rose 289.2 percent from $72.7 million to #283 million.
• To accommodate a larger student body, full-time faculty increased 55.5 percent from 279 to 434 faculty members, allowing Gonzaga to maintain a small average class size of 22 students (in 1999) to 24 students (2017).
Quote from: JD24 on March 25, 2019, 03:37:03 PM
QuoteGonzaga by the numbers: 1999 vs. 2017
Author: Erin Robinson , KREM
Published: 11:10 AM PDT March 30, 2017
Updated: 8:43 PM PDT March 30, 2017
SPOKANE, Wash. – Quite a few things have changed at Gonzaga University between the time the Bulldogs made their first NCAA Tournament appearance and now, as they head into their first Final Four.
Gonzaga released a few key figures that have changed from 1999 to 2017.
According to Gonzaga data:
• Total enrollment has increased 86.4 percent in the last 18 years. In 1999, the student enrollment was 4,061, while it now is up to 7,572.
• Undergraduate admission applications have grown nearly 300 percent, from 1,841 applications to 7,342.
• Freshman enrollment rose 124.9 percent, from 569 to 1,280 freshmen.
• The annual budget rose 289.2 percent from $72.7 million to #283 million.
• To accommodate a larger student body, full-time faculty increased 55.5 percent from 279 to 434 faculty members, allowing Gonzaga to maintain a small average class size of 22 students (in 1999) to 24 students (2017).
Great info. Wonder what changes to endowment occurred during those years.
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There was a very long article a few years ago that detailed the Gonzaga rise into a consistent top 25 program. I can't put my hands on it, but it was sent around and discussed heavily as a model for what VU could do if it committed to do so. Gonzaga has something that is relied on in real estate- location, location, location. They are in the West with not many basketball schools in the surrounding areas. They have more easily established a base from which to expand. Valpo is competing against multiple schools in a 50 mile radius for talent, dollars, media attention, etc. The PAC10 has declined, as Gonzaga has ascended. Top players out west have an alternative. Some might say Gonzaga is the old DePaul. They have capitalized on those strengths and with consistent wins against the power teams, recruiting has become easier and NBA type talent more readily attracted. They have then capitalized on those things with commitment from alumni. Kudos to them! Here's a story from a couple years ago (although not the more detailed one I was looking for).
http://www.espn.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/119205/how-the-basketball-program-helped-gonzaga-university-flourish (http://www.espn.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/119205/how-the-basketball-program-helped-gonzaga-university-flourish)
They do have a geographic advantage and good on them for taking advantage of it.
I'd settle for not being the fourth most popular college basketball team in our own city.
I think it'd be silly to think we couldn't learn something from Gonzaga but I also think they have situations that allow them to be the exception or over perform the rule.
I think location is a big one as I believe one stat showed that the increase in interest and enrollment often comes from people in your region or area. This is partially why it's been great fro Gonzaga, the West has less colleges with big basketball schools (per the article) and is i believe a growing area.
Valpo's success could definitely boost enrollment and engagement for sure but I think Butler, or what happens with Loyola will probably be a better measuring stick for us.
Don't usually post on this side of the board but will give my two cents.
1) Transfers could be due to a lack of student life. VU making kids live in their dorms for 3 years (2 and a half if you qaulify) has become severely outdated and laughable. When I am 21 I don't want to be forced into a 8x10 with another guy, told what hours are visitation hours, and have to receive jboard meetings if I have a beer. Laugh if you want but many 21 year olds are probably in the same boat.
2) Bryce was extremely good at gaining an extra edge by recruiting Europe and Canada. This has stopped essentially and bringing in local high school kids works, but there is competition throughout the midwest and with Valpo's declining options for graduate schools, dorm policies, level of competition, and overall amount of student body there are other alternatives.
3) Lottich came in after the school lost arguably its best senior class in recent memory, hard enough as it is to bounce back from that. The school was moved into a higher competition conference.
Lack of student life, recruiting edges, and higher competition don't usually equal success.
Like I said 2 cents, take it or leave it
Quote from: JD24 on March 25, 2019, 03:37:03 PMQuoteGonzaga by the numbers: 1999 vs. 2017 Author: Erin Robinson , KREM Published: 11:10 AM PDT March 30, 2017 Updated: 8:43 PM PDT March 30, 2017 SPOKANE, Wash. – Quite a few things have changed at Gonzaga University between the time the Bulldogs made their first NCAA Tournament appearance and now, as they head into their first Final Four. Gonzaga released a few key figures that have changed from 1999 to 2017. According to Gonzaga data: • Total enrollment has increased 86.4 percent in the last 18 years. In 1999, the student enrollment was 4,061, while it now is up to 7,572. • Undergraduate admission applications have grown nearly 300 percent, from 1,841 applications to 7,342. • Freshman enrollment rose 124.9 percent, from 569 to 1,280 freshmen. • The annual budget rose 289.2 percent from $72.7 million to #283 million. • To accommodate a larger student body, full-time faculty increased 55.5 percent from 279 to 434 faculty members, allowing Gonzaga to maintain a small average class size of 22 students (in 1999) to 24 students (2017).
Quoting oneself if probably some sort of board violation but here I am.
I am from neither the midwest or pacific northwest.
I first heard of both Valparaiso and Gonzaga right around the same time. Maybe it was even in the same year and it was because of the NCAA Tournament. There was a team who's coach's son hit a miraculous shot. Which team it was I mixed up for a few years. Coaches has similar last names...Few and Drew....but soon Valpo faded back into oblivion only to pop up once in a while. Gonzaga became Gonzaga and there's no confusion now. My opinion is that Valpo blew a golden opportunity to raise the awareness of the school while Gonzaga took advantage of it.
At the risk of doxing myself, I worked in the ticket office while I was a student at Valpo until I graduated in 99.
Throughout my senior year there was visible frustration from the athletic department toward Alan Harre for not advocating to the board that we push the athletic department.
One quote I heard (secondhand but from multiple trusted sources) was: "Don't ask for more money. You're lucky to get what you have."
So freaking myopic (the remembered quote I mean).
I've not posted before, but I wanted to see what people really mean by the perceived lack of institutional support for MBB here at Valpo. From what I can tell (I only have data publicly available DOE data, I've never had conversations with anyone on the board or anything like that), the support from the institution for the program has been consistently high for years (DOE data on the internet only goes back to 2003, so I don't know about 1999), increasing from $1,300,000 in 2003 to more than $2,600,000 in 2017 (the most recent data available). Right now Valpo is in the 12 percentile for school size in D-I, but 56 percentile for MBB spending. Of the smallest 20% of D-I schools, Valpo ranked 20th of 68 schools in MBB spending in 2017. That makes me curious about what all of you think about this. It appears to me that the school has been spending all it can through regular channels on MBB, and really needs to find large donors to make a great leap in the future.
All of that said, if Valpo wants to consistently be in the NCAA tournament, and competitive when it gets there, we probably need to spend at least another $1,500,000 per year on top of the huge budget increases the program has already seen over the last 14-16 years. Where does money like that come from, especially at a school with fewer than 4000 students, and no 7 figure athletics donors in sight?
Quote from: Valpo06 on March 26, 2019, 11:56:29 PM
I've not posted before, but I wanted to see what people really mean by the perceived lack of institutional support for MBB here at Valpo. From what I can tell (I only have data publicly available DOE data, I've never had conversations with anyone on the board or anything like that), the support from the institution for the program has been consistently high for years (DOE data on the internet only goes back to 2003, so I don't know about 1999), increasing from $1,300,000 in 2003 to more than $2,600,000 in 2017 (the most recent data available). Right now Valpo is in the 12 percentile for school size in D-I, but 56 percentile for MBB spending. Of the smallest 20% of D-I schools, Valpo ranked 20th of 68 schools in MBB spending in 2017. That makes me curious about what all of you think about this. It appears to me that the school has been spending all it can through regular channels on MBB, and really needs to find large donors to make a great leap in the future.
All of that said, if Valpo wants to consistently be in the NCAA tournament, and competitive when it gets there, we probably need to spend at least another $1,500,000 per year on top of the huge budget increases the program has already seen over the last 14-16 years. Where does money like that come from, especially at a school with fewer than 4000 students, and no 7 figure athletics donors in sight?
1. The budget compares favorably on the macro level. That said, it doesn't matter what Southern University in the SWAC spends or YSU in the HL spends, or any of hundreds of other Mid- and low major programs across the fruited plain. What does matter is how Valpo compares to sister programs in the MVC.
2. The last time I looked, Valpo's budget is somewhere in the middle of the pack in the MVC. However, doesn't the budget include tuition waiver payments paid to to university for the 13 scholarship players? Assuming that's the case, Valpo and the other privates budgets would be artificially inflated to cover much higher tuition costs. Removing that apples-to-oranges would lower Valpo's relative position.
3. While your point about Valpo having a sizable budget relative to its small size may be true, it's immaterial. When Valpo's administration decided to move to D-1, they knew full well they would be competing against universities with more resources and higher financial commitments to athletics. The same decision was made relative to move-ups to the Horizon League and MVC. You have to pay to play.
4. The same holds true for the need to revamp the ARC. According to Commissioner Elgin, Valpo verbally committed to rehabbing the ARC as a condition of joining the MVC. It's disingenuous to play the "I'm too little" card now. If the Administration knew that would be an issue going forward, they should have had a plan to accommodate it, or else decide to remain in the HL. Apparently, they thought they could have their cake and eat it too.
4. Hoping a big time donor will come along is not a plan, it's a pipe dream akin to hoping to win the Power Ball. As you say, big time donors are few and far between at a university the size of Valpo. Yet, apparently that's Valpo's only hope to bring its facility up to standard in the league it committed to.
5. I am highly skeptical of MLB's remark that they are always looking for big time donors. The fact is big time gifts were given for somewhat frivolous projects, mainly the needlessly extravagant visitors center and the new Chapel wing. The question is did these people have those very projects in mind from the get-go, or were they steered there by Heckler, the same guy that has absolutely no plan in place to rehab the ARC - short term, long term, any term.
WH--the projects you mention were not steered by Heckler.
Quote from: Valpo06 on March 26, 2019, 11:56:29 PM
I've not posted before, but I wanted to see what people really mean by the perceived lack of institutional support for MBB here at Valpo. From what I can tell (I only have data publicly available DOE data, I've never had conversations with anyone on the board or anything like that), the support from the institution for the program has been consistently high for years (DOE data on the internet only goes back to 2003, so I don't know about 1999), increasing from $1,300,000 in 2003 to more than $2,600,000 in 2017 (the most recent data available). Right now Valpo is in the 12 percentile for school size in D-I, but 56 percentile for MBB spending. Of the smallest 20% of D-I schools, Valpo ranked 20th of 68 schools in MBB spending in 2017. That makes me curious about what all of you think about this. It appears to me that the school has been spending all it can through regular channels on MBB, and really needs to find large donors to make a great leap in the future.
All of that said, if Valpo wants to consistently be in the NCAA tournament, and competitive when it gets there, we probably need to spend at least another $1,500,000 per year on top of the huge budget increases the program has already seen over the last 14-16 years. Where does money like that come from, especially at a school with fewer than 4000 students, and no 7 figure athletics donors in sight?
The significant bump in the Valpo line from about 2012-2015, represents, if I am guessing correctly, one form of program commitment: increases in Bryce's salary. Note the drop off afterward. The gradual increase afterward I would guess includes the upgrades to media required by the MVC and an increase in travel expenses due to longer distances. To me these things fall into the "mandated to maintain" category, not significant investment. But, then again, capital improvements to facililities (i.e., the ARC) wouldn't necessarily come out of the MBB budget.
Quote from: wh on March 27, 2019, 06:11:20 AMthe needlessly extravagant visitors center and the new Chapel wing.
A little harsh. I personally don't think the Visitor Center is extravagant in that it is the very first impression one gets when visiting the University. As for the Chapel addition, it was funded by two former students, now Lutheran Pastors, who met at the Chapel. Somehow new seating in the Chapel was just slightly a head of new seating in the ARC in their minds.
Quote from: vu72 on March 27, 2019, 08:21:16 AM
Quote from: wh on March 27, 2019, 06:11:20 AMthe needlessly extravagant visitors center and the new Chapel wing.
A little harsh. I personally don't think the Visitor Center is extravagant in that it is the very first impression one gets when visiting the University. As for the Chapel addition, it was funded by two former students, now Lutheran Pastors, who met at the Chapel. Somehow new seating in the Chapel was just slightly a head of new seating in the ARC in their minds.
The Visitor's Center is beautiful and has amazing curb appeal. I like it. I might even love it. That said, the law of diminishing returns comes into play at some point in glamour strategy where the cost begins to exceed the benefits. IMO the Visitors Center is a diminishing returns poster child.
By and large I don't have a problem with most of the construction projects recently. But yeah the welcome center seems....interesting. How much was it and what function does it serve? Honest question, I've never set foot in it.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 27, 2019, 09:10:49 AM
By and large I don't have a problem with most of the construction projects recently. But yeah the welcome center seems....interesting. How much was it and what function does it serve? Honest question, I've never set foot in it.
The Welcome Center is home to Admissions, Enrollment and Educational Recruiting as well as meeting and presentation spaces and I believe was completely donated by the Duesenburg family. I don't know that the cost was publicly announced, but I can't imagine that it isn't out there somewhere. The building, while being very aesthetically pleasing, functions as office space for the above mentioned departments.
Some further information.
Our admissions program used to be housed in the Administrative building, Kretzmann which is probably one of the ugliest buildings on campus. It was hard to find and depressing to walk into and became very crowded and overall unpleasing as a first experience with the university.
The admissions building was fully donated and has been a great asset and a lovely first face for everyone coming in.
I would also say the chapel addition is far from frivolous as well. It's one of the most active areas on campus, coincided with the development of the institute of leadership and service and their expanding programs which includes the very successful CAP fellowships and the bridgework conference.
I think we can criticize the amount of energy spent towards cultivating or pushing large donors towards athletics but I feel those two maybe are not the best examples.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 27, 2019, 09:10:49 AM
By and large I don't have a problem with most of the construction projects recently. But yeah the welcome center seems....interesting. How much was it and what function does it serve? Honest question, I've never set foot in it.
I seem to remember a figure of around $5 million as the family's gift for for the Duesenberg Welcome Center. I can't find any final figure that reflects the university's additional funding.
https://www.valpo.edu/welcomecenter/
From this site:
The long history of commitment to Valparaiso University by Phyllis and Richard Duesenberg was carried forward Saturday, April 28, when the University announced that the Duesenbergs had made a $5 million gift toward the construction of the Duesenberg Welcome Center..
I infer from
toward that it means other funds were also used.
I thought it was fully funded by the Dusenberg. It's a very pretty space but it's not very big and since it's mostly meeting rooms I can't imagine it had a large price Tag.
If you haven't been in it I recommend it. There's a very lovely mural lots of windows, the kissing bridge has been relocated there and there are other aspects of Valpo history around.
Quote from: valpofb16 on March 26, 2019, 02:12:23 PM
Don't usually post on this side of the board but will give my two cents.
1) Transfers could be due to a lack of student life. VU making kids live in their dorms for 3 years (2 and a half if you qaulify) has become severely outdated and laughable. When I am 21 I don't want to be forced into a 8x10 with another guy, told what hours are visitation hours, and have to receive jboard meetings if I have a beer. Laugh if you want but many 21 year olds are probably in the same boat.
2) Bryce was extremely good at gaining an extra edge by recruiting Europe and Canada. This has stopped essentially and bringing in local high school kids works, but there is competition throughout the midwest and with Valpo's declining options for graduate schools, dorm policies, level of competition, and overall amount of student body there are other alternatives.
3) Lottich came in after the school lost arguably its best senior class in recent memory, hard enough as it is to bounce back from that. The school was moved into a higher competition conference.
Lack of student life, recruiting edges, and higher competition don't usually equal success.
Like I said 2 cents, take it or leave it
I know for certain that Javon Freeman was already allowed to live off campus. I assume this was the same for the other MBB players.