And maybe part of the anwser on the possible transfer. Just saw this posted by VUTV:
BREAKING NEWS FROM THE 15 AT 5 NEWSROOM: 4 Students (including 2 Men's Basketball players) arrested and booked in the Porter County Jail on Drug Charges. Find out more information this evening on 15 News at 5.
Micah was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Just like last time....
And the hits just keep come for Valpo Basketball.
https://twitter.com/AlBillets/status/1120394343477596160
I'll spare this thread the politics but I'll just say this: If it's weed I really don't care. Stupid, very stupid, but not worthy of dismissal in and of itself.
Appears both have been charged with possessing marijuana (misdemeanor)....could they have been celebrating a popular day this weekend?
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on April 22, 2019, 01:39:56 PMI'll spare this thread the politics but I'll just say this: If it's weed I really don't care. Stupid, very stupid, but not worthy of dismissal in and of itself.
The charges are for possession of: MJ/HASH/SALVIA. Which I believe is Weed. Arrested along with Micah was Nailah Bush. I think that is his girlfriend and was previously arrested with him last year.
This is Micah's second time being in trouble with the police while at VU. I don't think this is going to work out very well with him staying on the team.
What's been the punishment for this in the past? Sit 2 games, sit 2 weeks? Is this Micah's send offense for the same thing? His punishment worse then Mileek's?
I believe his charges were dropped last time so this is only his first charge in regards to violations I believe.
Was the "sit two weeks" punishment for alcohol? Is an illegal narcotic possession different (politics aside)?
Does the team/athletics dept/university have a set policy?
This is just another terrible reflection on the coaching staff. Players with terrible judgement but not very well supervised or instructed in the first place.
I'm sure there's something in the rule book. Still just a misdemeanor, hard for me to get that worked up about it, unless Lottich specifically told him one more time and he's gone.
How about we wait to hear all the details? We seem to get ourselves in trouble when we jump to conclusions. Myself included.
Who's the second person?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: rustnvrsleeps@yahoo.com on April 22, 2019, 02:37:01 PM
Who's the second person?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/roster/2018-19/10059/mileek-mcmillan/
Were Mileek and Micah auditioning for Dumb and Dumber? How can they be so foolish, especially Micah for a second time? :crazy:
They have to be smarter. Micah should face a stiffer team punishment since it's his second offense.
Even if it's just weed they need to be better representatives for the program. This isn't a good look on the coaching staff either. Clean it up and act more professional. If these guys want to go home pro they need to grow up and treating they're amateur basketball careers with more professionalism.
Quote from: VUBBFan on April 22, 2019, 01:31:44 PM
And the hits just keep come for Valpo Basketball.
https://twitter.com/AlBillets/status/1120394343477596160
They look wasted.
Details on the arrest:
https://valpovutv.org/2019/04/22/breaking-news-recent-arrests/
I'm not making excuses, but when I was in college, the police would have driven on without calling in back up or sniffing at doors.
https://twitter.com/rwweinstein/status/1120454522537639944
Quote from: vu72 on April 22, 2019, 02:24:26 PM
This is just another terrible reflection on the coaching staff. Players with terrible judgement but not very well supervised or instructed in the first place.
I think we can rest assured they've "been instructed" ad nauseum. Beyond that, what are the coaches supposed to do? They live a life away from the ARC 95% of the time. They either stay away from trouble, or they don't.
I agree the charge does not seem like a major deal. However, it's still criminal activity that is now publicized and will scrutinize everyone involved with the team. Obviously, they're their own individuals but they have to be smarter. It was the biggest pot smoking day of the year (4/20); of course the police are going to be on the lookout for marijuana use. As others have said, the process has to play out but they are representatives of the university. I'd venture to guess there are graduated actions to take if there are founded violations. Disappointment for Mileek and frustration for Micah who just went through this ordeal last year. Who knows what conditions or actions were taken last year with Micah, but on the surface I'd imagine they would be similar with Mileek for a first (known) violation. Have a sitdown with them, give them a drug test to see if it is in their system, and take appropriate actions. Ultimately, they could be completely cleared of any wrongdoing. The more frustrating aspects are that players on the team are continuing to engage in known/publicized activities that are more selfish than team oriented, that it's another negative headline in a season filled with them and during a time where there shouldnt be any more, and that this broke and the coaches had to handle it while a potential recruit (zion) was on campus. The team isnt going to come closer together when individuals are participating in this type of activity. At what point are the problems individualized or systematic? Do other players on the team think they can get a "free pass" the first time?
Not happy with VUTV breaking the story...not promoting the "Valpo Brand". They should be banned from our NCAA news conference next year.
Don't get me wrong, these guys, if nothing else, do deserve a little public embarrassment. But why does VUTV report on this? I don't follow them so I don't know how they operate. Do they report every student's arrest?
This is a direct reflection of our program. An absolute mess. I could care less if you are pro weed or not, but these players have again put themselves above the team. How dumb do you have to be to put yourself in this situation, and for Bradford twice. Given a world of opportunity and could care less. Mileek has such high talent and potential that as a fan who wants this kid to be successful is so disappointing.
Goodbye Bradford and I hope to god Ryan doesn't leave.
I read the police report and noticed that Mileek was listed at 6'8" and 220 lbs., which is exactly the same as the VU roster, but Micah is listed at 6'0" 140 lbs., more believable than the 6'2" and 155 lbs. on the VU roster. On a more serious note, the police report also states that Micah is the resident of the building where the activity occurred, and it indicated that Micah's girlfriend, with whom he was arrested last year, provided the marijuana. The facts suggest that Micah did not learn anything when he was given a second chance last year, and I agree with chairback that I would not be upset to see the program say goodbye to Micah.
It's just embarrassing on all fronts right now. I'm sorry I'm totally disgusted by virtually everything to do with this program at the moment. Everything just screams "turn off" and revulsion for the fanbase. I will still be a fan but I can feel my connection waning and becoming more distant. I don't want to waste my time and energy on players and an administration that don't/doesn't love me back. I don't need that kind of one way relationship in my life right now. Maybe I'll get more excited as the season draws closer but I don't know. Something in me doubts it.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on April 22, 2019, 07:10:13 PMverything just screams "turn off" and revulsion for the fanbase. I will still be a fan but I can feel my connection waning and becoming more distant.
It's not just you, it's a lot of us who feel the same way. I've have been going to games since the early 80's as a kid and have never felt this way about the program.
I know. People I talk to are disgusted as well. One of my friends has decided against buying season tickets because of this mess. I know he can't be the only one.
Like I said in an earlier post, I don't hold the coaching staff responsible for players smoking weed in a backyard shed supplied by some idiot girlfriend. But let me be clear. If Bradford isn't immediately dismissed from the program, I will hold LaBarbera and Lottich fully accountable as accessories after the fact.
Quote from: wh on April 22, 2019, 07:51:24 PM
Like I said in an earlier post, I don't hold the coaching staff responsible for players smoking weed in a backyard shed supplied by some idiot girlfriend. But let me be clear. If Bradford isn't immediately dismissed from the program, I will hold LaBarbera and Lottich fully accountable as accessories after the fact.
When I complete the fan survey, MLB had better be prepared for some sharply worded observations!
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1120495476258820096
Honest question: At this point, should MLBs fate be tied to Lottich's? I find myself going back and forth on this. Curious what others think.
Right about now seems fine. Changes need to be made quick fast and in a hurry. Fix this embarrassing joke of a program immediately before you chase off the fans and undo everything the Drews built. If MLB can't or won't do it we need to find someone who will. The problem is I don't trust this administration to make the move and even if they do I don't trust them to make a hire that will move this athletic department forward and make it competitive at the MVC level.
I am glad to see the prompt decision by the School in the indefinite and 2-game suspensions for these 2 characters. Micah should be dismissed from the team as far as I am concerned. Stupidity is the name of this latest episode. I am sure the players knew the rules so let's not blame ML or MLB for this fiasco.
As my grumpy cat calendar reads this month
"I'm judging you....Guilty! Your crime: Stupidity"
Quote from: VUBBFan on April 22, 2019, 08:17:11 PM
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1120495476258820096
Doesn't sound like Micah's going anywhere. They would have cut him if they were going to do it, instead of "indefinitely" suspending him.
I understand kids make mistakes but he is already on thin ice from last season, has a serious back injury and has arguably been a sub-par college basketball player. If the coaches kicked him off the team and he lost his scholarship, I'm not sure coaches would be rushing to sign him... He has just put himself in a terrible position. He needs to run with a different crowd. The same girl he got busted with last year got pinched in this arrest. Someone needs to talk to this kid and set him straight because he's blowing an amazing opportunity for himself.
I get the "representing the university" stuff. I also understand the harsh criticism and what not.
But if the 4 of them would have been sitting in the shed pounding beers and listening to music there would have been no problem. Even if McMillan isn't 21 the cops would have left them alone because they would have had no reason to approach the shed.
As a college kid who was a college athlete representing my college, who also hung out in a lot of strange places pounding beers, I am just glad I went with a culturally acceptable drug of choice in the offseason as to not bring the wrath of the "never sinned" community.
He didn't beat up a girl, this wasn't a DUI, not a hit a run or a violent act. Just because Micah likes weed doesn't make him a bad person.
Switch to beer Micah, most everyone on the board can at least relate to that drug.
Just my 2 cents.
Couple of different thoughts on this story.
First, I think this is overcharged by the police. It's worth noting that no marijuana was found either on Mileek or Micah or in the storage shed. Wouldn't surprise me to see this plead down to paraphernalia or dismissed completely. Because going by the police report, this case is a dog.
Second, not sure why Micah didn't learn his lesson after last year's incident. Matt Lottich isn't responsible for all the action's of his players or keeping tabs on them at all times, but I think it's fair to ask how he addressed the issue previously. Is this an issue with the coach or the player? As VU2014 pointed out, Micah is blowing an amazing opportunity to play college basketball. Why?
Quote from: SanityLost17 on April 22, 2019, 09:05:45 PMI get the "representing the university" stuff. I also understand the harsh criticism and what not. But if the 4 of them would have been sitting in the shed pounding beers and listening to music there would have been no problem. Even if McMillan isn't 21 the cops would have left them alone because they would have had no reason to approach the shed. As a college kid who was a college athlete representing my college, who also hung out in a lot of strange places pounding beers, I am just glad I went with a culturally acceptable drug of choice in the offseason as to not bring the wrath of the "never sinned" community. He didn't beat up a girl, this wasn't a DUI, not a hit a run or a violent act. Just because Micah likes weed doesn't make him a bad person. Switch to beer Micah, most everyone on the board can at least relate to that drug. Just my 2 cents.
you are a fool. all anyone cares about is they put themselves above the team and didn't follow the rules and it has a major impact on the program. Any law or team rule not followed is selfish. If you were college athlete you should know this. Even in the Twenge days this was preached and it was a wild bunch.
Can the Micah Bradford experiment please be over now???? Pretty sure we saw enough to know it wasn't working out several years ago when he couldn't make a shot or hit a free throw. We can do much better. Time to tell him to move on and hit the road.
Quote from: chairback on April 22, 2019, 09:27:29 PM
Quote from: SanityLost17 on April 22, 2019, 09:05:45 PMI get the "representing the university" stuff. I also understand the harsh criticism and what not. But if the 4 of them would have been sitting in the shed pounding beers and listening to music there would have been no problem. Even if McMillan isn't 21 the cops would have left them alone because they would have had no reason to approach the shed. As a college kid who was a college athlete representing my college, who also hung out in a lot of strange places pounding beers, I am just glad I went with a culturally acceptable drug of choice in the offseason as to not bring the wrath of the "never sinned" community. He didn't beat up a girl, this wasn't a DUI, not a hit a run or a violent act. Just because Micah likes weed doesn't make him a bad person. Switch to beer Micah, most everyone on the board can at least relate to that drug. Just my 2 cents.
you are a fool. all anyone cares about is they put themselves above the team and didn't follow the rules and it has a major impact on the program. Any law or team rule not followed is selfish. If you were college athlete you should know this. Even in the Twenge days this was preached and it was a wild bunch.
I am sure lots and lots of your favorite former players put themselves above the team on dozens and dozens of occasions, you just never knew its so your opinion of them was never tarnished.
I may be a fool, but that makes 2 of us.
Quote from: mj on April 22, 2019, 09:15:49 PMI am sure lots and lots of your favorite former players put themselves above the team on dozens and dozens of occasions, you just never knew its so your opinion of them was never tarnished. I may be a fool, but that makes 2 of us.
Exactly.
wasn't Micah a starter for most of the games he played at Valpo?
This program is in shambles. Shell of what it once was. Matt has to go! Can't manage the team!
Quoteyou are a fool. all anyone cares about is they put themselves above the team and didn't follow the rules and it has a major impact on the program. Any law or team rule not followed is selfish.
Look at Johnny Hardass over here. Lighten up, Francis. It's a plant.
Quote from: JD24 on April 22, 2019, 09:43:28 PM
Quote from: mj on April 22, 2019, 09:15:49 PMI am sure lots and lots of your favorite former players put themselves above the team on dozens and dozens of occasions, you just never knew its so your opinion of them was never tarnished. I may be a fool, but that makes 2 of us.
Exactly.
Back in the day, the off season was the off season. After football and before track started up, a beer from the frat beer machine in the basement was a nothing burger whether you were legal or not. It actually was a rite of passage. As long as you were not publicly intoxicated and, importantly, arrested by the VPD (there was no VUPD in those days) there were no problems. Though many of us lived off campus, we took care of our own.
Generally, our country has become accepting of recreational weed in private settings which blurs expectations as well as interpretations and may be a bit confusing for young minds.
Today in Valpo, however, it appears the wiff of an "intoxicant" in the air, the concept that DI players are in season all year, and what appears to be a very rigid VUPD enforcement procedure, have come together to produce a less reasonably tolerant environment.
Knowing all this I have two observations. 1) all students, but especially athletes because they are high profile representatives of the university, need to have drummed into their youthful brains that Valpo is not a "what you think is a normal" place. And 2) to not recognize that and make repeated mistakes is purely stupid and deserves consequences beyond an indefinite suspension (essentially a loss of scholarship).
If this doesn't necessitate removal from the team, idk what does. I'm out as a season ticket holder until changes are made. Enough is enough.
Quote from: chairback on April 22, 2019, 09:27:29 PM
Quote from: SanityLost17 on April 22, 2019, 09:05:45 PMI get the "representing the university" stuff. I also understand the harsh criticism and what not. But if the 4 of them would have been sitting in the shed pounding beers and listening to music there would have been no problem. Even if McMillan isn't 21 the cops would have left them alone because they would have had no reason to approach the shed. As a college kid who was a college athlete representing my college, who also hung out in a lot of strange places pounding beers, I am just glad I went with a culturally acceptable drug of choice in the offseason as to not bring the wrath of the "never sinned" community. He didn't beat up a girl, this wasn't a DUI, not a hit a run or a violent act. Just because Micah likes weed doesn't make him a bad person. Switch to beer Micah, most everyone on the board can at least relate to that drug. Just my 2 cents.
you are a fool. all anyone cares about is they put themselves above the team and didn't follow the rules and it has a major impact on the program. Any law or team rule not followed is selfish. If you were college athlete you should know this. Even in the Twenge days this was preached and it was a wild bunch.
Why do you list the Twenge days as a 'wild bunch?' You are speaking about me and my experiences in that comment, so I am curious to know what you are accusing us of.
Didn't the article say Valparaiso Police, not Valparaiso University Polic?
I knew there was a VU tv station but I didn't know there was a VUTV news department.
As for Micah I would kick him out of school. One violation, shame on you, two violations, shame on me.
Mileek can learn a good lesson and become a good example of a Valpo student athlete. It's what happens to Micah that has the greatest chance of teaching Mileek a hard learned lesson.
These days, I think police have higher priorities than arrest people for cannibus possession.
That being said, Despite this moronic law bringing us back to the I like Ike days, these players should have known better.
How much worse do things need to get before we do something about it? First, Jubril. Then, Joe. Go ahead and blame them. Fair enough.
Then, more players leave last year. Ok fine Parker and Linssen are meh. So, whatever. Life moves on.
Meanwhile, we post a losing season after a promising start.
First year in the mvc. So, fair enough. We'll get better. Micah makes a mistake and gets arrested. Still play him in the mvc tournament. Lose first game. Season over.
This year. Great start in mvc play. Then ouch. Injuries. Laundry. Blown lead after blown lead. But, we kept hearing about the players being gritty and united. Even heard it from Matt during his speech at senior night. Keep believing - couldn't be prouder of these guys.
Then, we win our first Mvc tournament game. Yaaaayyyy all is well.
Then we get beat down by Loyola. Ok time they went to the final four last year.
It's all good - despite another losing season - look at how many seniors we'll have. This is our moment. Give Matt another year.
And then transfergate. But it's all good cuz those same players he raced about being selfless and so forth are "me-oriented."
Then we sign 3 guys from overseas with zero other scholarship offers. Still have 2 openings.
Now two more arrests. In addition to losing 5 players.
One of whom had his second offense. AND THEY DID IT ON 4/20. How ignorant. Now folks are justifying. Boo hoo. They broke the rules and got caught! It's still illegal here! Quit making excuses. That's a me-mentality.
If they don't want to follow the rules - then don't play. While everyone else pays for their schooling, these guys get full rides.
That comes with responsibility. Go around signing autographs for kids and bringing them in to play at halftime. And set this example for them??????
Stand up for what's right, MLB. Do something. Don't enable the problem.
Golden, while I may also be in the camp that Lottich is not the guy, ranting about firing him now does no good. He's going to get (at least) one more year. And to be honest, I'm not sure what you're going to get at this point in the offseason to replace him. In fact, I think the argument could be made that if MLB feels his fate is tied to Matt's, he may be inclined to give him as much rope as possible.
Maybe the new travel uniforms should be orange! ;)
Just a question because I don't know: does suspended indefinitely mean "dismissed" in practical terms? Kind of like in baseball "designated for assignment" essentially means "released." I'm not sure how the University discipline system works.
To me, it seems practical that Mileek would get a punishment, and Micah would get dismissed. However, I think that Mileek got the same punishment as a person who gets caught drinking under age. Seems like the punishment should be at least incrementally greater since there was an illegal substance involved.
If Micah isn't "dismissed", I think his best choice is to transfer. I would suspect that if we took a poll among fans, most would vote for his permanent departure. Given that the fanbase doesn't want him, for his own sake, a fresh start (even at a much lesser program) might do some good. On the flip side, if he were to remain in the program and have a huge year (doubtful), he could become a fan favorite, and that small victory in life may be valuable some day. That's looking at it purely from his eyes.
From the coaches eyes, I think a clear message on the discipline would be best. Indefinite suspension seems to fall a little short.
Quote from: vu72 on April 23, 2019, 08:58:41 AM
Maybe the new travel uniforms should be orange! ;)
They could give Mileek a section of US 30/Morthland that he would need to clean up all by himself. Two positives. Or join a group from the ISP in Michigan City to clean up a section of busy I-80/94/Borman. He would have to wear the same uniform that the inmates wear.
Quote from: 4throwfan on April 23, 2019, 09:00:37 AM
Just a question because I don't know: does suspended indefinitely mean "dismissed" in practical terms? Kind of like in baseball "designated for assignment" essentially means "released." I'm not sure how the University discipline system works.
To me, it seems practical that Mileek would get a punishment, and Micah would get dismissed. However, I think that Mileek got the same punishment as a person who gets caught drinking under age. Seems like the punishment should be at least incrementally greater since there was an illegal substance involved.
If Micah isn't "dismissed", I think his best choice is to transfer. I would suspect that if we took a poll among fans, most would vote for his permanent departure. Given that the fanbase doesn't want him, for his own sake, a fresh start (even at a much lesser program) might do some good. On the flip side, if he were to remain in the program and have a huge year (doubtful), he could become a fan favorite, and that small victory in life may be valuable some day. That's looking at it purely from his eyes.
From the coaches eyes, I think a clear message on the discipline would be best. Indefinite suspension seems to fall a little short.
I think the suspended indefinitely is part of Micah's due process. It allows Micah to get a lawyer/representative and argue in a university hearing for his reinstatement.
Quote from: bbtds on April 23, 2019, 09:08:03 AMsuspended indefinitely
Was there an official announcement on this?
Thanks bbtds,
So, it means that the administration wants to dismiss, but they have to go through a process? Since Mileek received a punishment without that, does it mean that different punishment levels do and do not get due process?
I'm assuming that, since VU is a private institution, it would only owe due process under its own rules. I just don't know what the rules are, so I appreciate your thoughts.
It's just disappointing.
Quote from: 4throwfan on April 23, 2019, 09:23:25 AM
Thanks bbtds,
So, it means that the administration wants to dismiss, but they have to go through a process? Since Mileek received a punishment without that, does it mean that different punishment levels do and do not get due process?
I'm assuming that, since VU is a private institution, it would only owe due process under its own rules. I just don't know what the rules are, so I appreciate your thoughts.
I believe you are correct. I also think that the decision maker is MLB, the AD, and he probably wants some distance between the incident and his decision. He will consult with Lottich and will probably give him guidance on avoiding these situations in the future. I think Mark will be as even handed as possible because he now has all the athletes in his department's attention.
If I recall, Malik Yarbourough (sp?) was suspended 'indefinitely' multiple times at ISUr and never missed a game.
No clue if pain management has a place in the Micah story but allow me to make that leap just to bring his story full circle.
Micah red-shirted because of chronic back pain. Fine! At 85 or even 90% he could not and will not help the program get back on track. Matt needed to steer him to a lower level program if he could not return at 100%. So if this is about pain he has my full legal support but he should transfer if he wants to continue with basketball.
On the other hand if this has nothing to do with pain then it has to be about rule violations, discipline and ignorance. Acting as both judge and jury I pronounce Micah guilty, guilty, and guilty.
Either way Micah needs to make a fresh start.
If he is dismissed, I would think this might help getting Jordan Ash or Zion Morgan on board.
Not that my vote matters, but I vote for his dismissal. It's not like he exactly tore it up when he did play. Plus, he took a year off due to back pain from a car accident. He now apparently weighs 140 lbs. I can't imagine he will come back and tear it up. We need to learn to move on and cut our losses when needed and this is one of those situations.
Quote from: justducky on April 23, 2019, 10:49:38 AM
No clue if pain management has a place in the Micah story but allow me to make that leap just to bring his story full circle.
Micah red-shirted because of chronic back pain. Fine! At 85 or even 90% he could not and will not help the program get back on track. Matt needed to steer him to a lower level program if he could not return at 100%. So if this is about pain he has my full legal support but he should transfer if he wants to continue with basketball.
On the other hand if this has nothing to do with pain then it has to be about rule violations, discipline and ignorance. Acting as both judge and jury I pronounce Micah guilty, guilty, and guilty.
Either way Micah needs to make a fresh start.
Interesting. I'm willing to hear the evidence if Micah or his representative can present a valid case. Although it is clear that medical marijuana is illegal in Indiana.
When you elect to participate in an ncaa regulated sport, you're responsible. If you want to partake in doing drugs, you are putting your eligibility and responsibilities as a teammate in jealousy.
Plain and simple. He admitted in the report to smoking weed. Clearly didn't learn from the first offense.
I'm not so much concerned about these 2 players returning, staying or being suspended. It is just another dagger to an already beat up team (sorry rebuilding team). They were not key contributors to this program last year anyway. I am concerned that this may be an excuse to schedule poorly. I would be extremely disappointed if we see us open up against a subpar non D1 program followed with games like Chicago State and UNC-Asheville because we have players suspended. Sounds all to familiar.
Evidently, there is a policy. The policy should be followed regardless of a player's value to the team.
I wonder if Indiana's cannabis laws will make recruiting more difficult. It won't be long before this would not be an issue in Illinois (if they were 21).
Quote from: VALPO LI on April 23, 2019, 12:42:13 PMIt is just another dagger to an already beat up team (sorry rebuilding team).
Clearly this is a problem in that where is the discipline? What were these young men thinking? Did they consider how there actions may have affected there teammates? Having said that, and for those posters who lament the players being signed have no other offers (not sure if that is true), please consider that in Ryan, we bring back a kid who hopefully will stay healthy for the whole year. As for offers, Ryan had offers from Northwestern and Providence and was a 3*. Nick had offers from Cal and DePaul and was a 3*. Eron was a 3.7* player with too many offers to list but just a few include Indiana, Purdue, LSU, Arizona State and Auburn. If we can get Jordan Ash, he also was a 3* with offers from Purdue and Iowa before choosing Northwestern.
We are not going to be the dregs of the league, relax.
I believe that dismissed from the team indefinitely means that he has no team/athlete privileges for the time being. Think meals, trainer, access to athletic department, etc. Part of the process.
He'll most likely be reinstated at a time when the legal process plays out.
Just a guess on my part.
Good thread to read:
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1120737184238252032
Also:
https://twitter.com/GreggDoyelStar/status/1100036680935985152
I kind of equate smoking weed and underage drinking as about the same. It's something that happens all the time. News of this happening on College campuses and parties are not surprising events. It is almost a rite of passage for College students to participate in these activities. It's been glamorized and made fun of in so many movies ( Animal House, American Pie, etc. )
Going to College is more than just education. It's a time to grow up on one's own. To have fun, socialize, make stupid mistakes and learn from them to become responsible adults.
We can debate about the justiciability of using marijuana or underage drinking, but it still comes down to the fact that it is unlawful at this time and there are consequences to doing such. Also if one wishes to participate or be part of something they must be prepared to abide by the rules that apply to their participation.
As I said before College kids tend to make bone headed decisions ( Lord knows I made enough myself ), so I believe they should be given a little slack or second chance to prove themselves capable of learning and taking responsibility for their actions (for minor infractions).
As such I feel Mileek's punishment is just and he deserves a second chance as long as he learns from it.
For Micah I feel so disappointed in him. He was given a chance to stay clean and out of trouble but obviously did not, therefore jeopardizing his future and scholarship. For a person who has been given gifts or opportunities, to take them so lightly, means that they didn't deserve them in the first place.
I wish them well but please gain some practical knowledge from this experience. If you don't learn from your mistakes you are doomed to failure.
Marijuana is a gateway drug and should not be legalized except in rare instances where it has been proven to be effective in the treatment of serious medical conditions.
I might feel differently about legalization if this country had a track record of moderation in the use of consumer products, but we don't.
It is only a matter of time before some guy who is high plows into a group of seven year olds waiting for a school bus, killing several and maiming others. Then we will see how popular legalization is.
Paul
About two dozen DUI related deaths per day. Back to prohibition then.
Quote from: VUBBFan on April 23, 2019, 02:04:19 PMI kind of equate smoking weed and underage drinking as about the same. It's something that happens all the time. News of this happening on College campuses and parties are not surprising events. It is almost a rite of passage for College students to participate in these activities. It's been glamorized and made fun of in so many movies ( Animal House, American Pie, etc. ) Going to College is more than just education. It's a time to grow up on one's own. To have fun, socialize, make stupid mistakes and learn from them to become responsible adults. We can debate about the justiciability of using marijuana or underage drinking, but it still comes down to the fact that it is unlawful at this time and there are consequences to doing such. Also if one wishes to participate or be part of something they must be prepared to abide by the rules that apply to their participation. As I said before College kids tend to make bone headed decisions ( Lord knows I made enough myself ), so I believe they should be given a little slack or second chance to prove themselves capable of learning and taking responsibility for their actions (for minor infractions). As such I feel Mileek's punishment is just and he deserves a second chance as long as he learns from it. For Micah I feel so disappointed in him. He was given a chance to stay clean and out of trouble but obviously did not, therefore jeopardizing his future and scholarship. For a person who has been given gifts or opportunities, to take them so lightly, means that they didn't deserve them in the first place. I wish them well but please gain some practical knowledge from this experience. If you don't learn from your mistakes you are doomed to failure.
Thanks for the reasonable post
I assume everyone here is against driving while impaired. In the case of alcohol, there is an identifiable parameter to determine impairment -- 0.08 BAC in most states. There is no adequate parameter to police marijuana use since there is no set limit of the level of THC that renders one impaired. This problem is magnified since THC can linger in the bloodstream for several weeks.
Paul
I am curious to see who gets punished worse:
Robert Kraft by the NFL
or
Micah Bradford by Valpo University
If Robert Kraft gets a fine from the NFL and continues to be allowed to be an owner of an NFL team and Micah is removed from the team/university, it will say a lot about our country on a multitude of levels that are too extensive to discuss on this message board.
Criminalizing cannibus at this day and age is an absolute joke and a waste of tax money.
Quote from: 78crusader on April 23, 2019, 04:59:45 PM
I assume everyone here is against driving while impaired. In the case of alcohol, there is an identifiable parameter to determine impairment -- 0.08 BAC in most states. There is no adequate parameter to police marijuana use since there is no set limit of the level of THC that renders one impaired. This problem is magnified since THC can linger in the bloodstream for several weeks.
Paul
Canada has started using a saliva test. As the opportunity for profit arises, I'm sure companies will come up with effective products.
https://nationalpost.com/cannabis/federal-government-approves-first-device-for-testing-drivers-saliva-for-cannabis
So how many tweets by the VUTV account on Micah and Mileek in the last two days?
Today a student was arrested for filming other students in the shower and posting it online.
Nothing.
I don't recall the cries for the resignation or firing of the Basketball, Football, M&W Soccer and Volleyball programs back in 2013(?) when half the athletic program was nailed for underage drinking.
I realize this type of situation is fodder for the self righteous amongst us but a small amount of perspective is needed for some.
The other thing is on those who fault the coach for not having a grip on the situation. I have been on and near campus and witnessed parents of athletes doing exactly what our fine members of the basketball team have been accused of. This isn't saying anything about the parents of the athletes involved here but is more of a retort to the opinion of what a coach can control and what he can't.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on April 23, 2019, 07:07:44 PMSo how many tweets by the VUTV account on Micah and Mileek in the last two days? Today a student was arrested for filming other students in the shower and posting it online. Nothing.
Correct. 2nd of a similar incident identified in the last couple of weeks. We have a student lurking in the woman's dorms in one case and another student filming other students in the shower and posting it online. I'm a lot more concerned about the personal safety issues than a couple of basketball players chiefing up.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on April 23, 2019, 07:07:44 PMSo how many tweets by the VUTV account on Micah and Mileek in the last two days? Today a student was arrested for filming other students in the shower and posting it online. Nothing.
If you watch the VUTV broadcast they also talk about that after the Micah Mileek story.
After the Ball players smoking weed.
I can tell you which I would be more concerned about as a parent.
Quote from: JD24 on April 23, 2019, 07:32:14 PM
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on April 23, 2019, 07:07:44 PMSo how many tweets by the VUTV account on Micah and Mileek in the last two days? Today a student was arrested for filming other students in the shower and posting it online. Nothing.
Correct. 2nd of a similar incident identified in the last couple of weeks. We have a student lurking in the woman's dorms in one case and another student filming other students in the shower and posting it online. I'm a lot more concerned about the personal safety issues than a couple of basketball players chiefing up.
Anyone remember JP Tenuta?
Quote from: valpotx on April 23, 2019, 09:03:13 PMQuote from: JD24 on April 23, 2019, 07:32:14 PMQuote from: NativeCheesehead on April 23, 2019, 07:07:44 PMSo how many tweets by the VUTV account on Micah and Mileek in the last two days? Today a student was arrested for filming other students in the shower and posting it online. Nothing.
Correct. 2nd of a similar incident identified in the last couple of weeks. We have a student lurking in the woman's dorms in one case and another student filming other students in the shower and posting it online. I'm a lot more concerned about the personal safety issues than a couple of basketball players chiefing up.
Anyone remember JP Tenuta?
Lord of the Dance!
Quote from: tiny707 on April 22, 2019, 06:15:23 PM
Not happy with VUTV breaking the story...not promoting the "Valpo Brand". They should be banned from our NCAA news conference next year.
Perhaps Brian Wardle can come over to Valparaiso and provide some consulting on how to control the media.
Quote from: 78crusader on April 23, 2019, 04:27:37 PMIt is only a matter of time before some guy who is high plows into a group of seven year olds waiting for a school bus, killing several and maiming others. Then we will see how popular legalization is.
Sure thing. It would kinda be like Sandy Hook and all those kids killed. We immediately took action! Oh wait...that was New Zealand.
Me already anticipating the next three pages of this thread.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/tyqcJoNjNv0Fq/giphy.gif)
Quote from: JD24 on April 23, 2019, 09:41:32 PM
Quote from: valpotx on April 23, 2019, 09:03:13 PMQuote from: JD24 on April 23, 2019, 07:32:14 PMQuote from: NativeCheesehead on April 23, 2019, 07:07:44 PMSo how many tweets by the VUTV account on Micah and Mileek in the last two days? Today a student was arrested for filming other students in the shower and posting it online. Nothing.
Correct. 2nd of a similar incident identified in the last couple of weeks. We have a student lurking in the woman's dorms in one case and another student filming other students in the shower and posting it online. I'm a lot more concerned about the personal safety issues than a couple of basketball players chiefing up.
Anyone remember JP Tenuta?
Lord of the Dance!
Wow, didn't know he went that direction. His was a video scandal before there were video scandals.
I don't understand any discussion about Micah that does not address the fact he was arrested last year and given a second chance—carried by the team even as an injured player thus taking up a valuable scholarship slot—yet repeated the exact same actions again, but also drew his teammate Mileek into the mess this time. I don't care what the infraction was, what people think about the law or its enforcement, or any attempts by some to mitigate his actions. What I care about is Micah's refusal to recognize the opportunity he was given and his betrayal of the trust offered after his previous behavior, a signal of disrespect to all who displayed support for him, including the coaching staff. I'd be in complete agreement if the decision of the program were that he has forfeited his place on the roster.
Quote from: valpopal on April 24, 2019, 10:33:35 PMI don't understand any discussion about Micah that does not address the fact he was arrested last year and given a second chance—carried by the team even as an injured player thus taking up a valuable scholarship slot—yet repeated the exact same actions again, but also drew his teammate Mileek into the mess this time. I don't care what the infraction was, what people think about the law or its enforcement, or any attempts by some to mitigate his actions. What I care about is Micah's refusal to recognize the opportunity he was given and his betrayal of the trust offered after his previous behavior, a signal of disrespect to all who displayed support for him, including the coaching staff. I'd be in complete agreement if the decision of the program were that he has forfeited his place on the roster.
I agree with it all except the part about dragging Mileek into it. Who knows what the dynamics are in this case.
Quote from: JD24 on April 25, 2019, 03:17:53 PM
Quote from: valpopal on April 24, 2019, 10:33:35 PMI don't understand any discussion about Micah that does not address the fact he was arrested last year and given a second chance—carried by the team even as an injured player thus taking up a valuable scholarship slot—yet repeated the exact same actions again, but also drew his teammate Mileek into the mess this time. I don't care what the infraction was, what people think about the law or its enforcement, or any attempts by some to mitigate his actions. What I care about is Micah's refusal to recognize the opportunity he was given and his betrayal of the trust offered after his previous behavior, a signal of disrespect to all who displayed support for him, including the coaching staff. I'd be in complete agreement if the decision of the program were that he has forfeited his place on the roster.
I agree with it all except the part about dragging Mileek into it. Who knows what the dynamics are in this case.
I was just going by what I read in the police report, which stated the activity happened at a site of Micah's residence and Micah's girlfriend supplied the substance. Of course, Mileek was at fault as well for participating.
Tracking this thread as well as the newspaper articles and found some interesting views. 1. It says the 1st arrest against Bradford was dismissed (either wrongfully arrested or not enough evidence to charge with any possession charge or otherwise) 2. The 2nd arrest neither player (Mileek or Bradford) were found with possession and no substance was found in or on the players property which sounds like an even lesser accusation than the 1st. The young lady involved is said to be a friend to multiple players in the program (no specific relationship to anyone particular) and was allegedly found with what was said to be ashes of a substance and thereby probably should've been the only one arrested legally. Contrary to what was said in one report I understand that the players did not admit smoking anything. 3. On a comical note someone said Micah's license said he was 6'0 and 140 the information seems to be when he 1st got his license at 16yrs old and is neither here nor there but comical.
I do however find it a bit harsh that although these players put or allowed themselves to be regarded in this light from an accusation standpoint most are imputing an ultimate penalty when legally there have been 0 convictions. The 1st suspension Micah received was for missing the appeals meeting of which he was in a team workout and missed his time slot (not very smart or responsible) and was therefore forced to serve 2 game suspension not because he was arrested.
Mileek and Micah should've made sure to never allow themselves to be in these situations without a doubt but being accused of things and convicted of things are drastically different and condemning the players as a result of accusations seems a bit harsh.
In this day and time we have to be careful what we put together as facts from Social Media and some Media outlets and regard them as information we use to judge others!
Quote from: Fantofan on April 26, 2019, 05:01:23 AM
Tracking this thread as well as the newspaper articles and found some interesting views. 1. It says the 1st arrest against Bradford was dismissed (either wrongfully arrested or not enough evidence to charge with any possession charge or otherwise) 2. The 2nd arrest neither player (Mileek or Bradford) were found with possession and no substance was found in or on the players property which sounds like an even lesser accusation than the 1st. The young lady involved is said to be a friend to multiple players in the program (no specific relationship to anyone particular) and was allegedly found with what was said to be ashes of a substance and thereby probably should've been the only one arrested legally. Contrary to what was said in one report I understand that the players did not admit smoking anything. 3. On a comical note someone said Micah's license said he was 6'0 and 140 the information seems to be when he 1st got his license at 16yrs old and is neither here nor there but comical.
I do however find it a bit harsh that although these players put or allowed themselves to be regarded in this light from an accusation standpoint most are imputing an ultimate penalty when legally there have been 0 convictions. The 1st suspension Micah received was for missing the appeals meeting of which he was in a team workout and missed his time slot (not very smart or responsible) and was therefore forced to serve 2 game suspension not because he was arrested.
Mileek and Micah should've made sure to never allow themselves to be in these situations without a doubt but being accused of things and convicted of things are drastically different and condemning the players as a result of accusations seems a bit harsh.
In this day and time we have to be careful what we put together as facts from Social Media and some Media outlets and regard them as information we use to judge others!
Welcome to the board! You make a lot of solid points here. I think it is wise to let the legal process play out before anyone (Valpo athletic department included) draws conclusions.
So well said. Being on scholarship is a privilege. After the first offense and then sitting out an entire year due to injury - he had an opportunity to redeem himself. And blew it. Suspended indefinitely is hopefully due to the need for due process. However, the report clearly states his admittance to the offense. Even if things get dropped, he deserves to be dismissed from the team. It will help - in the big scheme of things - to either teach him a lifelong lesson OR prove this is the way he does business. We live in a state where it's illegal. If you don't like it, go somewhere else. Also, these athletes choose to sign on the dotted line when accepting a scholarship and membership of an ncaa-regulated athletic team. First offense - fine. Doesn't learn from it and does it again? Goodbye.
Mileek and Micah will both be at The Courts as instructors in a free kids basketball clinic tonight. Planning to take my 8 year old son. Hope they're only teaching on the court activities.
The case against Micah from last year was dismissed on 10/30/2018. Mycase.in.gov Micah Bradford (https://public.courts.in.gov/mycase/#/vw/CaseSummary/eyJ2Ijp7IkNhc2VUb2tlbiI6Ik1tWTNOREV5T1RFMk1qUXdPakl6TnpJNE56a3laRGM9In19)
It seems that the University is punishing Micah as a second time offender despite the fact that the State dismissed all of the charges from the 2018 arrest. I find that interesting in today's climate of reduced responsibility and victimhood culture. This is probably a good thing.
Quote from: FWalum on April 26, 2019, 01:01:04 PM
The case against Micah from last year was dismissed on 10/30/2018. Mycase.in.gov Micah Bradford (https://public.courts.in.gov/mycase/#/vw/CaseSummary/eyJ2Ijp7IkNhc2VUb2tlbiI6Ik1tWTNOREV5T1RFMk1qUXdPakl6TnpJNE56a3laRGM9In19)
It seems that the University is punishing Micah as a second time offender despite the fact that the State dismissed all of the charges from the 2018 arrest. I find that interesting in today's climate of reduced responsibility and victimhood culture. This is probably a good thing.
Micah entered a Pretrial Diversion Program and the charges were dropped once he successfully completed the program. It appeared to be a 6 month program based on the timing of the court's actions. (I assume the first charges can't be reinstated due to the 2nd arrest, but I don't know that for sure).
I'll defer to the lawyers who post here, but it's my understanding that in order to participate in a Diversion program, the individual must first make a written admission of the offense. So, despite having the charges dropped, he likely did admit to the charges.
It might be splitting hairs, but I view that situation a little differently than having charges dismissed due to lack of evidence or legitimate doubt of whether an illegal act took place. In any case, that might be why the University is considering his latest arrest as a 2nd offense.
Quote from: FWalum on April 26, 2019, 01:01:04 PM
The case against Micah from last year was dismissed on 10/30/2018. Mycase.in.gov Micah Bradford (https://public.courts.in.gov/mycase/#/vw/CaseSummary/eyJ2Ijp7IkNhc2VUb2tlbiI6Ik1tWTNOREV5T1RFMk1qUXdPakl6TnpJNE56a3laRGM9In19)
It seems that the University is punishing Micah as a second time offender despite the fact that the State dismissed all of the charges from the 2018 arrest. I find that interesting in today's climate of reduced responsibility and victimhood culture. This is probably a good thing.
If I'm reading the documents correctly, it looks like he didn't get his $1500 bond back. Could be akin to the actor in Chicago getting his charges dropped though he forfeited his bail. (But what do I know! ???)
Quote from: EddieCabot on April 26, 2019, 01:25:39 PMMicah entered a Pretrial Diversion Program and the charges were dropped once he successfully completed the program.
Yes, I see that now, should've looked at it a little bit more carefully. You're probably right when you say the university would see that as a second offense and not a true dismissal of the charges. Good catch.
I may be off on this, so correct me if I am, but the university has it's own rules of conduct and standards that they can punish or discipline students for. It doesn't necessarily mean that students have to break a state or federal law to be penalized for something. Cheating on an exam is not against the law, but there are repercussions that the student will probably have to face from the university. I believe that the university looks at these situations and how they reflect on the school to determine what disciplinary action it takes. As such their punishment to a student doesn't necessarily mean that they broke the law.
VUBBFan, one thing that bolsters your point is that Mileek has not been convicted, but he has already received his sentence of punishment from the University.
Right - I hope for both of their sakes that the cases can be dropped legally. As for basketball, we have to uphold standards for codes of conduct violations. First time offenses are one thing - repeated offenses that do not show a change in behavior are something very different. They're kids. They don't need these things to impact their futures after their VU bball days are over. It's an entirely different story for repeat offenders when it comes to privileges they have as scholarship athletes.
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on April 26, 2019, 03:25:44 PM
Right - I hope for both of their sakes that the cases can be dropped legally. As for basketball, we have to uphold standards for codes of conduct violations. First time offenses are one thing - repeated offenses that do not show a change in behavior are something very different. They're kids. They don't need these things to impact their futures after their VU bball days are over. It's an entirely different story for repeat offenders when it comes to privileges they have as scholarship athletes.
I totally agree. In this case I'm viewing the weed use as nothing more than a training violation, but training rules are established to be followed. Marijuana use might conceivably help a golfer with his putting, or maybe a bowler with his release but its effects on basketball individual and team development can not be good! Or so I hear.
;) ::)
I'm glad they are in good spirits. Micah and Mileek may have screwed up and made a mistake but both are still good kids.
https://twitter.com/dreadedupG/status/1121938551506112512
Quote from: vu72 on April 26, 2019, 01:47:29 PMQuote from: FWalum on April 26, 2019, 01:01:04 PMThe case against Micah from last year was dismissed on 10/30/2018. Mycase.in.gov Micah Bradford (https://public.courts.in.gov/mycase/#/vw/CaseSummary/eyJ2Ijp7IkNhc2VUb2tlbiI6Ik1tWTNOREV5T1RFMk1qUXdPakl6TnpJNE56a3laRGM9In19) It seems that the University is punishing Micah as a second time offender despite the fact that the State dismissed all of the charges from the 2018 arrest. I find that interesting in today's climate of reduced responsibility and victimhood culture. This is probably a good thing.
If I'm reading the documents correctly, it looks like he didn't get his $1500 bond back. Could be akin to the actor in Chicago getting his charges dropped though he forfeited his bail. (But what do I know! ???)
Did he put up $1500 or 10% of $1500 (typical of bond) or $150. That would be held by the court to cover court costs and/or the cost of the diversion program.
The Student-Athlete handbook outlines that a diversion for this type of offense is treated as a class II misconduct of the code of conduct for athletes.
This may also be a violation of the student athlete drug policy even though he has not likely failed a test. The punishment for drug positives as laid out in the handbook are with no other code of conduct violation a referral to OADE and a meeting with AD and Coach. With a previous CoC violation also adds a suspension. A second drug test failure refers you to OADE, no meeting and another suspension. Third failure and your gone from the school. So, despite the hard asses wishes, it appears a second suspension is what Bradford should receive unless we're going to ignore the guidelines. If we ignore them, why have them?
Quote from: VU2014 on April 26, 2019, 07:49:46 PMI'm glad they are in good spirits. Micah and Mileek may have screwed up and made a mistake but both are still good kids. https://twitter.com/dreadedupG/status/1121938551506112512
To their credit it would have been easy to bail on this to stay out of sight.
https://twitter.com/dreadedupG/status/1121945304289480706
You pay the complete cash bond in Indiana and 10% of a surety bond. So Micah, or someone on his behalf, posted the $1500 cash bond for him. And since it was a cash bond, after the case was dismissed after the pretrial deferment, the cash bond got sent back to him. (The bondsman keeps a surety bond.) Also in Indiana, you dont need to stipulate to the facts of the case to participate in a pretrial diversion, if you fail and the State redockets the case, they still need to prove you guilty. As was mentioned, the university has it's own criteria for violations and just because a criminal case is dismissed doesnt mean a university violation didnt happen. Be curious to see what happens with Micah If this is actually his second (known) violation. For all we know now, he may have passed a drug test and the case may be dismissed in the future. If that is the case, and I'm not saying it is, then IMO that's not right and could be a lawsuit. I think thats why hes suspended indefinitely and will be until the case is disposed of, or there is clear and convincing evidence that something either happened, or did not happen, during this ordeal.
Out of curiosity and because I was tired of speculating I reached out to see if I could get some insight. Was told Micah did the Pre trial diversion program because his lawyer told him it would be cheaper and because he was innocent and it would be dismissed over the same course of time as going to trial it was the most cost efficient way to go. Said there was never any admittance to smoking anything and that he passed 3 drug test during that period. (1 NCAA and 2 from University). Sounds like pre trial diversion program may be a money getter for those who can't afford to go to trial not realizing that in cases like this it can comeback and look bad from the outside as if it's a repeat offender which may not be the case in all situations. Again the reason I'm hesitant to claim facts from such a far distance away and render my own verdict without it all being conclusive.
Now unless I've been given false information which I'm not sure why that would be the case it paints an entirely different perspective.
Was also told the newspaper initially printed an article with the wrong charges because they jumped the gun to beef up the article and that the police went back and changed the report which may happen again in this case. I looked back at the article and it was edited to suggest the same.
I guess we can do what we want with it from an opinion standpoint but again I suggest being cautious when relying on Media totally for an informative standpoint when rendering judgement!! Great discussion points on this board by the way!!!
Serious question, what exactly has Micah done to give us a reason to keep him? Regardless of the debate on marijuana and whether it should be a crime, he's been arrested twice and put the program in a negative light. To the casual fan or reader, seeing VU basketball players' mugshots in the news is not a good look. When Micah did play a few years ago, all I recall is poor three point and free throw shooting. We wasted a scholarship on him now for several years and it appears as though he's going to stick around again.
Can we not do better or are we still accepting mediocrity around here?
Part of the reason for the pre-trial diversion is to eventually (I think it is 6 months following dismissal in IN) have the case expunged from the record. I don't think there is any requirement to admit guilt to enter a program particularly for a misdemeanor. The schools perspective is that the initial case was a violation of the Student-Athlete Code of Conduct so this would be a second violation although the true "legalities" of the cases muddle things a bit.
Quote from: valpolaw on April 27, 2019, 09:25:08 AMSerious question, what exactly has Micah done to give us a reason to keep him? Regardless of the debate on marijuana and whether it should be a crime, he's been arrested twice and put the program in a negative light. To the casual fan or reader, seeing VU basketball players' mugshots in the news is not a good look. When Micah did play a few years ago, all I recall is poor three point and free throw shooting. We wasted a scholarship on him now for several years and it appears as though he's going to stick around again. Can we not do better or are we still accepting mediocrity around here?
I know I asked this question a few weeks ago but when are scholarships for next year "locked in" if that's the correct word?
There are two roads to travel down with this situation. The first is what are the guidelines written into the S-A CoC. The second is whether the player is worth the scholarship. My thoughts would be that the CoC gives him a suspension of 3-4 games. The scholarship issue I agree with. The guy has provided what amounts to negative energy into the program and I'm not sure moving forward he's a guy to count on.
Thanks for all of the posts about legal procedure and university proceedings. It helps to put things in perspective.
One thing that we should all understand is that most of us don't know many of the facts. It's possible that we don't know MOST of the facts. That's why it's better to hand out penalties on the basis of a factfinding inquiry rather than in the court of public opinion.
If Micah leaves or comes back, we should trust that the decision maker acted reasonably. Since we don't know as many facts as they will likely have received, then we're simply not qualified to offer a better opinion.
Once again a Valpo sports story was undercut by poor judgment on the part of some players. VUTV news presented coverage of the spring football game on Saturday afternoon this evening with tape of the play and the postgame interview. However, immediately following that they reported a story that a dozen students had been arrested Saturday night on alcohol related charges, including four Valpo football players, and they named all of those arrested while displaying their mugshots.
Quote from: valpopal on April 29, 2019, 10:25:33 PMOnce again a Valpo sports story was undercut by poor judgment on the part of some players. VUTV news presented coverage of the spring football game on Saturday afternoon this evening with tape of the play and the postgame interview. However, immediately following that they reported a story that a dozen students had been arrested Saturday night on alcohol related charges, including four Valpo football players, and they named all of those arrested while displaying their mugshots.
Dopiest law on the books and the way law enforcement handles it is even dopier. My understanding is that LEOs have the option of issuing a citation but rarely if ever do. They must like the show.
Alcohol related charges? What happened? A 20 year old had a Bud Light? The nanny state at Valpo strikes again.
I know Paul is/was in that department. Even if he has nothing to do with the TV station I'd be curious his thoughts on the newsworthiness of 19 and 20 year old college students drinking beer. This is what I was referring to earlier in the thread. If I'm a student I'm far more interested in how the VUPD are going to keep cameras out of my shower, the justification for jacking up tuition this year, or what they're going to do with that soon to be empty law school.
I will defend the coverage on VUTV of criminal activities by Valpo athletes and other students. The job of the news staff is to present various stories of events, activities, people, and organizations on campus or influencing campus life. The arrests of individuals connected with the university, especially those figures who represent the university in their academic or athletic roles, seems a legitimate story alongside all the other good news or bad news items presented in the television broadcast. This is particularly true when the incident investigated involved at least two dozen in a nearby neighborhood. The arrests and appearance of the story with mug shots in a local newspaper negatively impact the image of the university and add to already existing tension between town and gown relations, and that makes for a legitimate news story. Rather than point fingers at the news staff or the police, who also are doing their jobs, we must remind athletes who publicly represent the university that they must hold themselves to a high standard, whether they like it or not. I believe such guidance on expected behavior is given to players at the start of each academic year and sport's season, and they are responsible for following the rules outlined by their coaches and advisors.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on April 30, 2019, 07:05:58 AM
I know Paul is/was in that department. Even if he has nothing to do with the TV station I'd be curious his thoughts on the newsworthiness of 19 and 20 year old college students drinking beer. This is what I was referring to earlier in the thread. If I'm a student I'm far more interested in how the VUPD are going to keep cameras out of my shower, the justification for jacking up tuition this year, or what they're going to do with that soon to be empty law school.
I have nothing to do with the television channel on campus. That said, I think there's an interesting discussion to be had about just who gets the "mugshot treatment" on campus media. Obviously to the outside media (Times, Post, etc) there is a notable interest in things like men's basketball and deviant crime like filming people in the shower. For campus (or in-house) media, does the president of a fraternity or sorority deserve a news story if they are arrested? What about a member of a theater production? What if a television anchor gets arrested for underage drinking? Would they also get their mugshot thrown up on the screen? Interesting ethical discussions that take place daily around these parts.
Reporting needs to get priorities straight. Pot smoking and beer drinking -- oh the tragedy!!
Appreciate the insight, Paul. Will be interesting to watch in the future.
Quote from: usc4valpo on April 30, 2019, 09:58:33 AM
Reporting needs to get priorities straight. Pot smoking and beer drinking -- oh the tragedy!!
Actually, the reporters at VUTV did get their priorities straight, which is to report the news no matter their own (or your) feelings about any laws or rules infractions. The reporters objectively gave an account of all the students getting arrested, being booked, and facing court appearances. They stuck to the facts of the case. The story is important because of its legal aspects, its influence on university relations with the surrounding community, the image of the university presented in local media, the impact on specific students, especially athletes who will be suspended, and the value of cautioning other students about possible repercussions to such actions. To ignore or brush aside such a story would be journalistic malpractice.
I would just say this:
Most of these students will probably enter a program where their charges are dropped and no longer appear on their record and I think that is Good.
However, now, whether that happens or not their mug shots will always be out there and may have increased visibility if they are published in various news media. This is unfortunate as the presence of a mug shot does not equal guilty but has a negative connotation. Couple that with this being a misdemeanor and I do think there should be a debate in news rooms whether, in our era of digital foot prints, it is responsible to put those images even more further out there into the internet eco system when they do not add anything to the story.
Quote from: crusader05 on April 30, 2019, 11:28:39 AMI would just say this: Most of these students will probably enter a program where their charges are dropped and no longer appear on their record and I think that is Good. However, now, whether that happens or not their mug shots will always be out there and may have increased visibility if they are published in various news media. This is unfortunate as the presence of a mug shot does not equal guilty but has a negative connotation. Couple that with this being a misdemeanor and I do think there should be a debate in news rooms whether, in our era of digital foot prints, it is responsible to put those images even more further out there into the internet eco system when they do not add anything to the story.
The football players will sit for a game assuming it is their first such offense with the possible exception of one of the players who picked up a distributing alcohol to "minor" charge. Maybe he gets two. I don't know.
While I understand that we all have to follow the rules, I have to disagree with LEO just "doing their jobs". Now maybe those arrested were being obnoxious and thus aggravated the situation however this is a "crime" which can be handled with a citation which keeps the mugshot (absolutely a ridiculous procedure for this particular offense) out of the public eye. The police choose not to handle the "crime" in this fashion as it is in a number of states......as are minor marijuana offenses.
As to the media and their treatment of those arrested, did vutv also list the non athletes (or at least non football players) who were arrested along with their mugshots? I do agree with wondering that if 5 or 6 students out of the nursing program were arrested for underage drinking whether it would make vutv but I don't know that it wouldn't but I have my doubts.
Quote from: JD24 on April 30, 2019, 12:00:37 PM
As to the media and their treatment of those arrested, did vutv also list the non athletes (or at least non football players) who were arrested along with their mugshots?
Yes.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26740141/judge-suppresses-video-kraft-solicitation-case
As I suspected...
Micah will have a tougher punishment than Robert Kraft from a legal standpoint, an institution of representation standpoint (Valpo vs. NFL), and a public perception standpoint (Valpo fans vs. NFL football fans), all for a MUCH MUCH lesser crime. "I hope Micah learns a lesson".... I do too. Micah, socioeconomic status and race matter in this country. Sorry buddy. I feel for you.
I would compare Kraft's situation less to Micah and more to Epstein. We've seen the Florida standard for justice in those kinds of crimes.
The Kraft situation is a money thing. He has the dollars to fight this as far as he wants. Most people don't.
Hopefully Kraft is able to keep that video from getting out...nobody wants to see that!
With the way the offseason has gone so far, I fully expect the next breaking news to be LaVall Jordan being announced as Michigans new coach, resulting in Derrik Smits rescinding his commitment to Butler and announcing he's coming back to Valpo, only to be received by the staff at the same time as Sorolla walking in to let them know he plans to return. They will then hold a best-of-three arm wrestling tournament that is open to the public to determine who actually gets the last spot. It's been that kind of a crazy few months.
Quote from: elephtheria47 on May 14, 2019, 01:22:36 PM
With the way the offseason has gone so far, I fully expect the next breaking news to be LaVall Jordan being announced as Michigans new coach, resulting in Derrik Smits rescinding his commitment to Butler and announcing he's coming back to Valpo, only to be received by the staff at the same time as Sorolla walking in to let them know he plans to return. They will then hold a best-of-three arm wrestling tournament that is open to the public to determine who actually gets the last spot. It's been that kind of a crazy few months.
Some how I think Michigan may be aiming a little higher. Jordan hasn't exactly lit it up at that school south of Valpo. It would be hilarious if it actually happened though!
Would be Butler's 5th different coach in the last 8 years if it did happen, only one of which (Miller) was let go, and that was because he disappeared off face of the Earth for months (and basically has completely done so since). Not sure any program in the country has had that kind of turnover. I'd be happy for him though. I think he's a solid coach, and he and his staff are only going to get better as time goes on. Plus the people on Butler's message board have been advocating for him to lose his job basically since he was hired, so that would at least be mildly entertaining to watch.
Quote from: IrishDawg on May 14, 2019, 08:49:31 PM
Would be Butler's 5th different coach in the last 8 years if it did happen, only one of which (Miller) was let go, and that was because he disappeared off face of the Earth for months (and basically has completely done so since). Not sure any program in the country has had that kind of turnover. I'd be happy for him though. I think he's a solid coach, and he and his staff are only going to get better as time goes on. Plus the people on Butler's message board have been advocating for him to lose his job basically since he was hired, so that would at least be mildly entertaining to watch.
Friends from church have said Miller has been seen visiting Franciscan health services in Greenwood but I don't know what he does for a living if he does anything. Of course all rumor.
Quote from: justducky on May 15, 2019, 12:11:13 PM
Quote from: bbtds on May 15, 2019, 12:03:18 PMFriends from church
:o You have friends?
You would be very surprised at the former VU presidents and vice presidents that are my friends. Unfortunately more have passed away than are currently living.