I think it is really great that the Athletic Department puts on a great show honoring the athletes and athletic performances of the past year. BUT, IT WAS A TERRIBLE, AWFUL, EMBARRASSING, DREADFUL athletic year.
Let's look back for a moment. I won't even bother with track or swimming, we all understand their role at Valpo, but let's do look at the key sports including Football, Men's and Women's Soccer, Men's and Women's Basketball, Volleyball, Baseball, Softball and Men's and Women's Tennis.
So here we go:
Football--2-9 finish:Tied for second last
Men's Soccer--5-8-4: 3rd out of seven------------- :clap: :dance: :clap:
Women's Soccer--5-8-3: Tied for second last
Men's Basketball--15-18: Tied for second last
Women's Basketball--8-24: Second last.
Volleyball--27-11: 4th out of 10------------- :clap: :dance: :clap:
Baseball--Currently 10-31 in Last place.
Softball--Currently 15-30 in Last Place
Men's Tennis--14-5: Finished 3rd----------- :clap: :dance: :clap:
Women's Tennis--3-17: Finished--Last
So of the 10 sports, we had TWO team with a winning record, and three teams either in last place or finished in last place with four more teams finishing in second last. Two teams had good, not great years and represented Valpo at an acceptable level.
This is as bad an athletic year as I can recall. We are WAY over our heads in The Valley. If this continues, heads need to roll or we need to go back to the Horizon.
Men's tennis went 14-5.
Golf?
Quote from: VULB#62 on May 06, 2019, 09:52:13 AM
Golf?
Good catch. Men's finished 5th of 9 and Women's added to our last place teams, finishing 10th of 10. :(
MLB has definitely left much to desire as an AD and we can leave it at that
Here we go again...who is next in line to get beat up on this Board? After 2 years we made a big mistake in upgrading to the MVC? What exactly do some of you expect from our School after 2 seasons? This repeat and repeat of negativity is getting old. Any positive thinkers out there? If so, let's hear from you!
Quote from: valpo64 on May 06, 2019, 03:56:30 PM
Here we go again...who is next in line to get beat up on this Board? After 2 years we made a big mistake in upgrading to the MVC? What exactly do some of you expect from our School after 2 seasons? This repeat and repeat of negativity is getting old. Any positive thinkers out there? If so, let's hear from you!
64.Come on. We didn't jump to the Big Ten. Based on our record we aren't even close. Seven out of 12 sports we finished second last or last. I want Valpo to succeed as much or more than anybody on the board but right now it is embarrassingly bad.
The power of POSITIVITY!!!!
BUT, IT WAS A TERRIBLE, AWFUL, EMBARRASSING, DREADFUL athletic year.
Wow really I went to a lot of Valpo athletic events and each athlete was having a blast the team work, competition, support and thrill of the game is what I saw.
Sure no team was undefeated or even close . The support of the girls basketball team gave each was always there to the last minute of every game. Seewald support for the other QB's was noticed he was always encouraging them good or bad, when Duncan made mistakes he picked himself up and went right back at it, the men basketball team played like they were winners. So lets give these student athletics positive messages nothing was embarrassing it's sports.
Absolutely nothing against the athletes full support of them. MLB is just not great.
Look at things such as team records, conference movement , non conference scheduling , player attrition, recruiting budgets etc.
Just not on the MLB train
In Division 1 sports, results are important and represent your athletic program. Nice warm fuzzies, but let's not buff a turd of a year.
Quote from: dcannon12 on May 06, 2019, 06:02:17 PM
BUT, IT WAS A TERRIBLE, AWFUL, EMBARRASSING, DREADFUL athletic year.
Wow really I went to a lot of Valpo athletic events and each athlete was having a blast the team work, competition, support and thrill of the game is what I saw.
Sure no team was undefeated or even close . The support of the girls basketball team gave each was always there to the last minute of every game. Seewald support for the other QB's was noticed he was always encouraging them good or bad, when Duncan made mistakes he picked himself up and went right back at it, the men basketball team played like they were winners. So lets give these student athletics positive messages nothing was embarrassing it's sports.
OK, Maybe I was a little overboard in my reaction. Certainly I am all for the players giving their all and supporting those efforts both via cheers and dollars. I am a frequent viewer of not only men's and women's basketball but really enjoy the action of volleyball, softball and baseball. Having said that, we already have sports where there is zero expectations of excellence, where school records get 10th place finishes. Are the athletes giving it their all? Of course.
The larger issue is are our coaches, for whatever reason, capable of attracting the level of athletes necessary to compete at The Valley level? It has only been two years and as we have discussed via Matt, having a cycle of time to bring in "your" players is only fair. I'm not calling for anybody's head including the AD. Given we are going into year 3, I certainly think improvement is expected and for starters I think both Men's and Women's basketball will get out of the basement, time will tell.
For the flagship (high profile) sports mentioned, I believe our university significantly underestimated the resources that would be required to adequately support the move to the MVC from the outset and remain relevant/competitive at that new level. That underestimate is reflected in many of the criticisms already directed at and documented about our two BB programs and the environment in which they play. It is also reflected in the rather poor records we are achieving in other sports. Somewhere (could it be the Athletics Strategic Plan?) I recall that Valpo strives for excellence on the field, in the classroom and in the community. We may be doing OK in the latter two, but in the first can we truly say we are striving toward excellence? Or paying that element more lip service than action. Thus, I would suggest that we replace "strive" with the word "wish." In today's world you cannot strive unless you put resources behind effort.
One case in point: men's soccer. In most non-FBS and non-football DI universities, that is the flagship fall sport. Technically, with our FB being nonscholarship, Valpo kind of falls into that category. Yet, we schedule and play programs that are fully funded ( i.e., fully scholarshipped). We are not. If Valpo was fully funded it would result in getting the two or three extra differences makers that would turn a generally .500 team into a team floating in and out of the nationally ranked top 25 almost every year.
Those same programs have dedicated soccer pitches that can be pointed to during recruiting as evidence of commitment. And they can be leveraged for scheduling home games. Not at Valpo. Teams that ordinarily would consider trading home and home games refuse to come to Valpo. As a result, if you check the schedule year in and year out, the team is forced to schedule a disproportionate amount of road games.
Then there is practice. MSO shares Brown Field with football in the fall and must schedule their practice time around football which is always given top priority. If you follow MSO Twitter you know that many times duriing the season the team practices at 6:00am or 7:00pm so that players can go to classes. Practicing after classes are over for the day is out, because the field is not available. In winter, the ARC is dedicated to basketball and the same scramble for practice time scraps occurs.
Does this sound like striving for excellence on the field? We should be in the thick of it when it comes to the MVC All-Sports trophy. We are no where near. Heck, you might say, it's a higher level of competition, so you can't expect that. OK, how did we do in the Horizon then as far as that All-Sports trophy. Also at or near the bottom pretty much every year we were members. The first year Oakland joined the HL, I believe they won it.
............. but we did consistently beat Oakland in MBB, so I guess we achieved that excellence.
Quote from: VULB#62 on May 07, 2019, 12:05:53 PM
For the flagship (high profile) sports mentioned, I believe our university significantly underestimated the resources that would be required to adequately support the move to the MVC from the outset and remain relevant/competitive at that new level. That underestimate is reflected in many of the criticisms already directed at and documented about our two BB programs and the environment in which they play. It is also reflected in the rather poor records we are achieving in other sports. Somewhere (could it be the Athletics Strategic Plan?) I recall that Valpo strives for excellence on the field, in the classroom and in the community. We may be doing OK in the latter two, but in the first can we truly say we are striving toward excellence? Or paying that element more lip service than action. Thus, I would suggest that we replace "strive" with the word "wish." In today's world you cannot strive unless you put resources behind effort.
One case in point: men's soccer. In most non-FBS and non-football DI universities, that is the flagship fall sport. Technically, with our FB being nonscholarship, Valpo kind of falls into that category. Yet, we schedule and play programs that are fully funded ( i.e., fully scholarshipped). We are not. If Valpo was fully funded it would result in getting the two or three extra differences makers that would turn a generally .500 team into a team floating in and out of the nationally ranked top 25 almost every year.
Those same programs have dedicated soccer pitches that can be pointed to during recruiting as evidence of commitment. And they can be leveraged for scheduling home games. Not at Valpo. Teams that ordinarily would consider trading home and home games refuse to come to Valpo. As a result, if you check the schedule year in and year out, the team is forced to schedule a disproportionate amount of road games.
Then there is practice. MSO shares Brown Field with football in the fall and must schedule their practice time around football which is always given top priority. If you follow MSO Twitter you know that many times duriing the season the team practices at 6:00am or 7:00pm so that players can go to classes. Practicing after classes are over for the day is out, because the field is not available. In winter, the ARC is dedicated to basketball and the same scramble for practice time scraps occurs.
Does this sound like striving for excellence on the field? We should be in the thick of it when it comes to the MVC All-Sports trophy. We are no where near. Heck, you might say, it's a higher level of competition, so you can't expect that. OK, how did we do in the Horizon then as far as that All-Sports trophy. Also at or near the bottom pretty much every year we were members. The first year Oakland joined the HL, I believe they won it.
............. but we did consistently beat Oakland in MBB, so I guess we achieved that excellence.
I think you are referencing this--from the Strategic Plan:
CATEGORY 2: COMPETITIVENESS
Goal 2.1: Finish in the top 3 in the McCafferty Cup while winning it at least
once every four years.
Goal 2.2: Basketball programs are regular participants in the NCAA Basketball Tournament.
Goal 2.3: Two additional sports annually compete in the NCAA
Championships.
Goal 2.4: Finish in the top 3 in the Pioneer Football League while winning
the Championship at least once every four years.
Goal 2.5: An increasing number of student-athletes and coaches participate
in NCAA Championships or win national and/or conference individual honors.
Strategy 2.A: Develop a plan of support for the University's Strategic Plan Objective 3.6 while
enhancing the vision of providing intercollegiate athletic programs that compete for team
championships, provide opportunities for student-athletes to secure individual
championships, and create exceptional student experiences.
Action step 2.A.i: Establish criteria to compete for conference championships at the
team level in the sports of Baseball, Men's and Women's Basketball, Bowling, Football,
Men's and Women's Golf, Men's and Women's Soccer, Softball, Men's and Women's
Tennis, and Volleyball.
Action step 2.A.ii Establish criteria that support students' opportunity to win individual
championships in the sports of Men's and Women's Cross Country, Men's and Women's Swimming,
Men's and Women's Track and Field.
Having found this, it is apparent that it means very little or at a minimum hasn't been looked at for over two years. The McCafferty Cup is awarded in The Horizon League. :(
Valpo has to commit to being better and not be satisfied for having athletic programs for the sake of having them exist.
Quote from: vu72 on May 07, 2019, 01:14:58 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on May 07, 2019, 12:05:53 PM
For the flagship (high profile) sports mentioned, I believe our university significantly underestimated the resources that would be required to adequately support the move to the MVC from the outset and remain relevant/competitive at that new level. That underestimate is reflected in many of the criticisms already directed at and documented about our two BB programs and the environment in which they play. It is also reflected in the rather poor records we are achieving in other sports. Somewhere (could it be the Athletics Strategic Plan?) I recall that Valpo strives for excellence on the field, in the classroom and in the community. We may be doing OK in the latter two, but in the first can we truly say we are striving toward excellence? Or paying that element more lip service than action. Thus, I would suggest that we replace "strive" with the word "wish." In today's world you cannot strive unless you put resources behind effort.
One case in point: men's soccer. In most non-FBS and non-football DI universities, that is the flagship fall sport. Technically, with our FB being nonscholarship, Valpo kind of falls into that category. Yet, we schedule and play programs that are fully funded ( i.e., fully scholarshipped). We are not. If Valpo was fully funded it would result in getting the two or three extra differences makers that would turn a generally .500 team into a team floating in and out of the nationally ranked top 25 almost every year.
Those same programs have dedicated soccer pitches that can be pointed to during recruiting as evidence of commitment. And they can be leveraged for scheduling home games. Not at Valpo. Teams that ordinarily would consider trading home and home games refuse to come to Valpo. As a result, if you check the schedule year in and year out, the team is forced to schedule a disproportionate amount of road games.
Then there is practice. MSO shares Brown Field with football in the fall and must schedule their practice time around football which is always given top priority. If you follow MSO Twitter you know that many times duriing the season the team practices at 6:00am or 7:00pm so that players can go to classes. Practicing after classes are over for the day is out, because the field is not available. In winter, the ARC is dedicated to basketball and the same scramble for practice time scraps occurs.
Does this sound like striving for excellence on the field? We should be in the thick of it when it comes to the MVC All-Sports trophy. We are no where near. Heck, you might say, it's a higher level of competition, so you can't expect that. OK, how did we do in the Horizon then as far as that All-Sports trophy. Also at or near the bottom pretty much every year we were members. The first year Oakland joined the HL, I believe they won it.
............. but we did consistently beat Oakland in MBB, so I guess we achieved that excellence.
I think you are referencing this--from the Strategic Plan:
CATEGORY 2: COMPETITIVENESS
Goal 2.1: Finish in the top 3 in the McCafferty Cup while winning it at least
once every four years.
Goal 2.2: Basketball programs are regular participants in the NCAA Basketball Tournament.
Goal 2.3: Two additional sports annually compete in the NCAA
Championships.
Goal 2.4: Finish in the top 3 in the Pioneer Football League while winning
the Championship at least once every four years.
Goal 2.5: An increasing number of student-athletes and coaches participate
in NCAA Championships or win national and/or conference individual honors.
Strategy 2.A: Develop a plan of support for the University's Strategic Plan Objective 3.6 while
enhancing the vision of providing intercollegiate athletic programs that compete for team
championships, provide opportunities for student-athletes to secure individual
championships, and create exceptional student experiences.
Action step 2.A.i: Establish criteria to compete for conference championships at the
team level in the sports of Baseball, Men's and Women's Basketball, Bowling, Football,
Men's and Women's Golf, Men's and Women's Soccer, Softball, Men's and Women's
Tennis, and Volleyball.
Action step 2.A.ii Establish criteria that support students' opportunity to win individual
championships in the sports of Men's and Women's Cross Country, Men's and Women's Swimming,
Men's and Women's Track and Field.
Having found this, it is apparent that it means very little or at a minimum hasn't been looked at for over two years. The McCafferty Cup is awarded in The Horizon League. :(
Spot on 72. In
Even in the HL Valpo failed to achieve the goals it sought.
Valpo, PUT YOUR MONEY (Resources) WHERE YOU MOUTH IS. DAMMIT.
I don't expect Valpo to be at the same overall athletic level as Stanford, UCLA or USC, but cmon man! No excuses here.
I too have been disappointed in our overall success since we joined the MVC. I also agree that we need to spend significantly more money in our sports programs, especially basketball. While we need to recognize that some already has been spent(TV capabilities, baseball field improvements, basketball practice facilities and whatever, we do need to bite the bullet and make immediate improvements in the ARC, etc. It will take time to be successful in the MVC but we need to keep pushing forward toward that goal. Look at Rutgers when they joined the Big 10, 12 or whatever it is called now. All of a sudden now we need to recruit better athletes in all sports and that takes time to develop on a consistent basis. Remember how this board used to joke about Loyola's terrible debut in MVC basketball? There are other MVC schools who are not successful in a great number of sports in MVC play. Let's hope we all keep pushing forward, including the VU Athletic Dept. and the School Administration to achieve success in the MVC. GO VALPO!
Quote from: valpo64 on May 08, 2019, 01:08:40 PM
I too have been disappointed in our overall success since we joined the MVC. I also agree that we need to spend significantly more money in our sports programs, especially basketball. While we need to recognize that some already has been spent(TV capabilities, baseball field improvements, basketball practice facilities and whatever, we do need to bite the bullet and make immediate improvements in the ARC, etc. It will take time to be successful in the MVC but we need to keep pushing forward toward that goal. Look at Rutgers when they joined the Big 10, 12 or whatever it is called now. All of a sudden now we need to recruit better athletes in all sports and that takes time to develop on a consistent basis. Remember how this board used to joke about Loyola's terrible debut in MVC basketball? There are other MVC schools who are not successful in a great number of sports in MVC play. Let's hope we all keep pushing forward, including the VU Athletic Dept. and the School Administration to achieve success in the MVC. GO VALPO!
So I imagine that we can agree that the University should push hard to find a donor or donors to fund major initiatives related to athletics - such as renovating or at least making immediate improvements to the ARC.
But let's assume for a minute that such a donor does not exist. Where do you suggest that the money come from? Take from the endowment (my guess is that there are restrictions on that)? Reduce budgets elsewhere in the university (and, if so, where)? Take out additional debt? Many say Valpo needs to 'bite the bullet', but no one ever seems to suggest where the money comes from.
I'm no money expert so I leave solving that problem to the finance/money/etc. people at the University. But I surely agree that the ARC improvements are needed now and that it should be a priority with the School to find funding for the project.
I'd like to emphasize that this string is about overall sports excellence not just basketball and facilities.
Most Valpo sports are underfunded or not funded at all scholarship-wise. That's the real dilemma we are facing. Despite average to poor facilities, if we initially gave more key sports full scholarship funding, we could still attract some better athletes in those sports raising our MVC overall sports profile considerably and putting teeth into the idea of excellence on the field, classroom and community.
I can see the need to do this in sensible stages.
Currently fully funded ( I believe): MBB, WBB, VB
Stage One: MSO, WSO, Baseball, Softball, WT, MT, WG, MG (Immediately go to NCAA maximums - MT & MG have displayed great results lately; women's counterparts move with the men)
Stage Two: T&F, CC (Phase in scholarships to reach NCAA max in 8 years - two graduation cycles)
Stage Three: Bowling, Swimming ( Start the same phasing as Stage Two but after the first graduation cycle)
What you have above is something called a plan. It would do a number of things.
One - help the university forecast costs and budget accordingly. Athletic Scholarships are accounting issues, not donor issues like getting money to build something. Essential you are charging zero to attend Valpo to play a sport which benefits the university. Let the accountants play with the numbers.
Two - It would add better athletes ( duh!)
Three - it would give our coaches some hope. Hope that they can be competitive and don't have to constantly swim upstream against programs that have the funding we don't.
Quote from: vu84v2 on May 08, 2019, 05:24:43 PM
So I imagine that we can agree that the University should push hard to find a donor or donors to fund major initiatives related to athletics - such as renovating or at least making immediate improvements to the ARC.
But let's assume for a minute that such a donor does not exist. Where do you suggest that the money come from? Take from the endowment (my guess is that there are restrictions on that)? Reduce budgets elsewhere in the university (and, if so, where)? Take out additional debt? Many say Valpo needs to 'bite the bullet', but no one ever seems to suggest where the money comes from.
Therein is the main challenge - it is easy to spend someone else's money yet the university needs to make prudent decisions.
Here are some "round number" values that show the financial position of the university. (This is from the 2017, 2016 and 2015 audited financial statements for the Lutheran University Association who is the "corporate" entity of VU.) over those years, they have had a loss of $2M to $3M per fiscal year. The operating revenue (inclusive of tuition and endowment earnings) is about $130M, the operating expenses (inclusive of depreciation and spending on new construction) are about $133M, so the loss is reasonable compared to their revenues. I note that Valpo borrowed quite a bit in 2016 and 2015 to complete some of the construction projects, and started paying it back in 2017. As of 2017, they had total notes and bonds payable of $109M: They are paying about $3.8M in interest payments on the debt, and in round numbers have to pay back $3.2M in bond principal per year. This debt is balanced by an endowment of $250M.
In addition, there must be considerable expenses related to closing down the law school that either have been paid or will be paid in 2018-19, and the tuition revenue will decrease due to not having law students.
So, perhaps the university is a fairly good credit risk because it has a much larger endowment than the current debt. Yet it is also unlikely they could dramatically increase their debt without running into fiscal challenges: It is not possible for a private entity to lose money every year, and I'm guessing that there will be a higher net loss due to the law school closure.
There are two solutions. First, an increase in donations. If a donor steps forward with a $20M gift to renovate the ARC, I'm sure it will happen quickly. Similarly, it is all well and good to talk about fully funding athletic scholarships for all sports. This would require donors to step up to endow an athletic scholarship (at $850K per scholarship). If this happens, I'm sure that those sports can increase the amount of scholarships and competitively recruit in more cases. Second, the other solution is on the revenue side: If VU can increase its enrollment by even a few students, it makes a big difference and can quickly go from an operating loss to an operating profit. Consider this simple example. If every freshman class is 50 students above the current, then this puts the total enrollment up by 200 students. 200 multiplied by $25K net per student works out to $5M per year. With even a few more students, it is much easier to fund renovations, or support borrowing more money to do so. (However, as noted above, the number of students is probably not trending up due to the law school closure. )
So 95, if we admit more students we are better off financially. To do that we probably would have to lower our admission standards. BUT.... That does not mean having to lower our academic standards. So..... If we get 200 more enrollees annually and 100 don't cut it, we are still a net 100 ahead, right. Our ratings criteria suffers temporarily, but over time, as enrollment grows and we close in on 6,000 and all programs are improving, we start returning to a tighter admissions criteria. It is a bump in the road but not a set back, and in the end it is a net gain.
Speaking of rating standards. In this current education environment the watchword is not preserving standards, it is preserving institutions i.e., survival. Valpo needs to survive and to grow. To do that it needs to increase its enrollment. Open the gates a bit wider. Admit more applicants. Roll the dice.
Wait! That would devalue our degrees say some alums. Answer: What's the value of a St. Joes degree these days?
Quote from: VULB#62 on May 08, 2019, 09:43:53 PM
So 95, if we admit more students we are better off financially. To do that we probably would have to lower our admission standards. BUT.... That does not mean having to lower our academic standards. So..... If we get 200 more enrollees annually and 100 don't cut it, we are still a net 100 ahead, right. Our ratings criteria suffers temporarily, but over time, as enrollment grows and we close in on 6,000 and all programs are improving, we start returning to a tighter admissions criteria. It is a bump in the road but not a set back, and in the end it is a net gain.
Speaking of rating standards. In this current education environment the watchword is not preserving standards, it is preserving institutions i.e., survival. Valpo needs to survive and to grow. To do that it needs to increase its enrollment. Open the gates a bit wider. Admit more applicants. Roll the dice.
Wait! That would devalue our degrees say some alums. Answer: What's the value of a St. Joes degree these days?
That's a bit unfair, and my post was already long enough. I never said VU should lower admission standards (the acceptance rate is something around 80% anyway), and doing so didn't work out for the law school. Clearly there is also some student attrition over four years. My point was to put some numbers to circumstances facing the administration, and to provide some perspective to those suggesting the university immediately fund major renovations and dozens of new scholarships when the university has been running a modest deficit.
Quote from: valpo95 on May 08, 2019, 10:58:03 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on May 08, 2019, 09:43:53 PM
So 95, if we admit more students we are better off financially. To do that we probably would have to lower our admission standards. BUT.... That does not mean having to lower our academic standards. So..... If we get 200 more enrollees annually and 100 don't cut it, we are still a net 100 ahead, right. Our ratings criteria suffers temporarily, but over time, as enrollment grows and we close in on 6,000 and all programs are improving, we start returning to a tighter admissions criteria. It is a bump in the road but not a set back, and in the end it is a net gain.
Speaking of rating standards. In this current education environment the watchword is not preserving standards, it is preserving institutions i.e., survival. Valpo needs to survive and to grow. To do that it needs to increase its enrollment. Open the gates a bit wider. Admit more applicants. Roll the dice.
Wait! That would devalue our degrees say some alums. Answer: What's the value of a St. Joes degree these days?
That's a bit unfair, and my post was already long enough. I never said VU should lower admission standards (the acceptance rate is something around 80% anyway), and doing so didn't work out for the law school. Clearly there is also some student attrition over four years. My point was to put some numbers to circumstances facing the administration, and to provide some perspective to those suggesting the university immediately fund major renovations and dozens of new scholarships when the university has been running a modest deficit.
Thus the need to grow the endowment. Adding 250,000,000 to the endowment produces, at a 5% return, 12,000,000 is free cash flow. That, in and of itself, will significantly improve the operating results and give the administration options for solving the attendance issues as well as other pressing needs.
The other possibility is selling some assets. With the closure of the law school, the entire old campus, other adjacent acquired properties, and all of Mound Street, will sit vacant, save a soccer field or two and the Sig Ep house.
IDK, but dcannon12's comments were so wrong.The warm fuzziness and participation trophy attitude is pathetic. This is a apparent gap at Valpo that needs to be addressed.The comments above are good, but saying all is well because of the joy of participation is weak.
Valpo Athletics needs to achieve again this level of excellence.
Quote from: valpo64 on May 08, 2019, 01:08:40 PMLook at Rutgers when they joined the Big 10, 12 or whatever it is called now.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9767443,-87.8686374,3a,30y,3.21h,92.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVcqzOxEMzdu5LoZt5APntw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Big 10 headquarters in Rosemont next to I-294 near O'Hare
IDK, but dcannon12's comments were so wrong.The warm fuzziness and participation trophy attitude is pathetic.
dannon12 here this does not bother me at all, but you trying to make Valp into University of Michigan type power house with athletics is pathetic.
Its a small school in Indiana that has sustained many teams by recruiting many students to play sports and attend the University. That is a success for Valp.
Stop bringing in all your big works and statistics that is pathetic.
uh, sure. Being happy with all your teams being in last place or near last place in their conference makes complete sense to me. Where do I talk about comparing Valpo to Michigan? Cripe, be at the same level as Drake or SIU! Is that asking too much?
Bravo Valpo64 - Here we go again...who is next in line to get beat up on this Board? After 2 years we made a big mistake in upgrading to the MVC? What exactly do some of you expect from our School after 2 seasons? This repeat and repeat of negativity is getting old. Any positive thinkers out there? If so, let's hear from you!
Totally agree with you all the statics, financial babel posting pictures of a win is stupid. Lets do the warm and fuzzie LOL that I think the athletics and the staff deserve and support the effort.
Kidding aside about the warm and fuzzie all schools D1, D2, D3 have terrible years and good years I say again it is SPORTS that's how it works.
I guess its all about the wins for you USC4Valpo. You brought this up sort of comparing them. The excuses is Vaplo is not this type school sports wise. We all want a win but your being a cry baby because there not winning! You act like its the end of the world for Valpo come on......
I don't expect Valpo to be at the same overall athletic level as Stanford, UCLA or USC, but cmon man! No excuses here. Your words.
This is fun, I like taking grief. I did say that - and I do not expect Valpo to have the same level of schools like those I listed. I do however, expect them to be competitive to the MVC, and right now we are far from that. Being happy to be in the cellar or near the cellar in all sports in a Division 1 conference is wrong. Right now we are far from holding our own, and if things do not improve at Valpo the MVC will have second thoughts inviting us.
I do not find the joy of the participation trophy and phony indicators of success. Saying we are successful based on participation and smiles is buffing a turd.
I don't get those who equate not going ballistic on a coach, AD or school with "being happy".
My thoughts are that the pitchforks and torches should be reserved for those higher than most discuss on this board.
I would hope the message from this particular string is not just fire good people because of lack of success. Instead, it must be to send a wake up call to the people who allocate funds to athletics as a subset of the university, that they have, perhaps, a more responsible role for our current situation. That is because their decision to reach beyond our previous comfort zone was done without recognizing that there had to be sufficient (not just minimal) additional funds invested to be successful. And that evidently has not been done.
62 - cha-Ching!
Quote from: VULB#62 on May 10, 2019, 08:17:18 PMI would hope the message from this particular string is not just fire good people because of lack of success. Instead, it must be to send a wake up call to the people who allocate funds to athletics as a subset of the university, that they have, perhaps, a more responsible role for our current situation. That is because their decision to reach beyond our previous comfort zone was done without recognizing that there had to be sufficient (not just minimal) additional funds invested to be successful. And that evidently has not been done.
I agree but I suspect a fundamental disagreement between the members of this board and the members of the board with the hammer in the University. I think there is a University board member on this board and I don't believe a picture was drawn by him giving any indication that anything is going to change.
Being consistently bad in your conference is a bad thing and celebrations for participation in Division 1 athletics is sad. What is wrong about striving for excellence?
Quote from: usc4valpo on May 11, 2019, 08:56:31 AMBeing consistently bad in your conference is a bad thing and celebrations for participation in Division 1 athletics is sad. What is wrong about striving for excellence?
Striving for excellence is not bad and the participants in the sports are doing just that. The issues with the programs save maybe a couple go above any player, coach or administrator's level. In addition to that, the level it is at will likely take a lot of time to make any changes to how sports is treated at the school.
Most fans want change in sport to happen immediately. It's why coaches are fired when it's a roster issue because changing one guy is easier than changing anywhere from 15 to 100 athletes. In this case, again maybe save a couple of sports, it's just unlikely to happen very quickly.
VULB#62 raised great points but I disagree with the point that this string (if he was making it) would provide any ammunition whatsoever to what needs to change. Change will only occur when those responsible for making change...which probably goes above the level of the President of the University....decide they
NEED to do so. That need is not going to be created on a message board.
You're right 24 that the VU Board members have see the need to more substantially fund the highest profile marketing arm it has — athletics. However, some members of the Athletic Department, some faculty and administrators and perhaps a VU board member or two occasionally see what is posted on this fan forum. Few, if any, participate, but there is some potential for alums and fans like the people on the fan forum to influence, however little, the minds of those decision makers. My feeling is that we just keep plugging away cuz it can't make anything worse than it is and may help.
Quote from: VULB#62 on May 11, 2019, 09:52:59 AMYou're right 24 that the VU Board members have see the need to more substantially fund the highest profile marketing arm it has — athletics. However, some members of the Athletic Department, some faculty and administrators and perhaps a VU board member or two occasionally see what is posted on this fan forum. Few, if any, participate, but there is some potential for alums and fans like the people on the fan forum to influence, however little, the minds of those decision makers. My feeling is that we just keep plugging away cuz it can't make anything worse than it is and may help.
Without knowing the current goals of the board, it is and has been frustrating in generating any change. Do they want to increase enrollment? Do they have any interest in directing current funds to support the athletics program in a better fashion? Are there large donor's out there which are willing but the board wants to earmark those donations to other projects?
Can we contrast how Valpo's board handles sports with how Valpo's current peers (i.e. the MVC) do the same? What are the differences if any? Do those schools scholarship other sports (taking football out of the mix)? If they don't are they any more successful than Valpo and why?
These are only a few of the questions I'd want to see an answer to. I find the thread topic in general interesting but the way it was presented and a few of the responses really unproductive as, whether it is intentional or not, the implication is the problem is with the participants (athletes, coaches, support staff and administration) when that is far from entirely true. Those people are doing what they can and should be applauded. I found the initial subject disrespectful to all those as well of some of the responses.
Back to the board and the direction of the University towards the Athletics program overall....there is at least one board member who I've seen post on this site who maybe can chime in and lend their thoughts on the subject.
I agree with what 62 and 24 are saying. I don't like the attitude that all is great because we just happily participate and treat it like it is low league intramurals. The kids try, the coaches try, the AD does what he can. I get that! We need to step it up and be competitive in the MVC. This is the responsibility of upper management.
Quote from: usc4valpo on May 11, 2019, 01:00:46 PMI don't like the attitude that all is great because we just happily participate and treat it like it is low league intramurals.
Who is making this point? You've repeatedly mentioned this against a point not being made. It is remarkably possible to both applaud the athletes presently competing as the ARC Awards do and criticize those who legitimately have the opportunity to generate change.
I think USC is focusing on his discussion with Dcannon12 back on May 6th when Cannon talked about how hard the kids worked and supported each other and that turned into what we are hearing at this point.
Quote from: JD24 on May 11, 2019, 01:52:31 PM
It is remarkably possible to both applaud the athletes presently competing as the ARC Awards do and criticize those who legitimately have the opportunity to generate change.
I think all of us (USC, dcannon12, you, me and rest of the forum) would say spot on in response to your quote above.
62 - you are correct
Eastern Kentucky's 2019 football recruiting class is ranked 11th in the Football Championship Subdivision (FCS) according to rankings by 247Sports released on Thursday.
First game is going to be-changeling hope coach uses the the QB with best mobility, mechanics and height. Has a running and passing plan and defense has to step up.
Probably a miss-hit. Deserves to be in the 2019 FB schedule string.