Valpo Hosts MVC-Leading UNI on Wednesday
http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/news/2019-20/19671/valpo-hosts-mvc-leading-uni-on-wednesday/
Waterloo Cedar Falls Courier pre-game article (with quotes from both coaches):
https://wcfcourier.com/sports/college/uni/mens_basketball/uni-freshmen-have-earned-jacobson-s-trust/article_e6b48dfc-979b-5c5b-9f83-178cd08c940a.html
A tough and daunting game... Round 2 of JFL vs Green. This is going to be a good one and I expect a big crowd even for a midweek game. Yet, given our performance in Cedar Falls I can't help but wonder if maybe we have the slightest shot of actually winning this game. If we do, our chances of avoiding Thursday go way up. This is a huge game and I hope the team comes ready. We need to do our best to stop Green but he's going to get his regardless most likely so I wouldn't make that the focus of the gameplan. What's more important is stopping their secondary scoring (Haldeman Berhow Brown). Phyfe is going to be tough to handle inside unless somebody really steps up. We need a big game from Mileek or Clay or Krikke or whoever is tasked with defending down low but we will be at a disadvantage there for sure. If Jacobson is smart he will pound the post relentlessly. We likely don't have a ready answer for Phyfe's size and skill. If Jacobson tries to put it all on Green and we can lock out the rest of their shooters we have a chance. If he recognizes and exploits his advantage UNI probably wins fairly comfortably.
Quote from: wh on February 04, 2020, 12:18:40 PMWaterloo Cedar Falls Courier pre-game article (with quotes from both coaches): https://wcfcourier.com/sports/college/uni/mens_basketball/uni-freshmen-have-earned-jacobson-s-trust/article_e6b48dfc-979b-5c5b-9f83-178cd08c940a.html
From article:
QuoteJohn Kiser and Javon Freeman-Liberty of Valparaiso rank first and second among the MVC's steal leaders with a combined total of 3.8 steals per game during league play.
This is true in conference only.
Quote from: Just Sayin link=topic=3651.msg123222#msg123222 date=1580843152
From article:
left]QuoteJohn Kiser and Javon Freeman-Liberty of Valparaiso rank first and second among the MVC's steal leaders with a combined total of 3.8 steals per game during league play.
[/left]
This is true in conference only.
Who cares? That's still a great stat and if we can turn UNI over like that we can stay in the game. Them living up to that stat and giving us four extra possessions could be key in this game.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 04, 2020, 01:16:26 PMQuote from: Just Sayin link=topic=3651.msg123222#msg123222 date=1580843152 From article:left]QuoteJohn Kiser and Javon Freeman-Liberty of Valparaiso rank first and second among the MVC's steal leaders with a combined total of 3.8 steals per game during league play.
[/left] This is true in conference only.
Who cares? That's still a great stat and if we can turn UNI over like that we can stay in the game. Them living up to that stat and giving us four extra possessions could be key in this game.
No one cares about stats. They are completely meaningless.
Quote from: Just Sayin on February 04, 2020, 01:23:59 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 04, 2020, 01:16:26 PMQuote from: Just Sayin link=topic=3651.msg123222#msg123222 date=1580843152 From article:left]QuoteJohn Kiser and Javon Freeman-Liberty of Valparaiso rank first and second among the MVC's steal leaders with a combined total of 3.8 steals per game during league play.
[/left] This is true in conference only.
Who cares? That's still a great stat and if we can turn UNI over like that we can stay in the game. Them living up to that stat and giving us four extra possessions could be key in this game.
No one cares about stats. They are completely meaningless.
That's pretty dumb don't ya think? Maybe sarcastic? Need a wink.
Quote from: Just Sayin on February 04, 2020, 01:23:59 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 04, 2020, 01:16:26 PMQuote from: Just Sayin link=topic=3651.msg123222#msg123222 date=1580843152 From article:left]QuoteJohn Kiser and Javon Freeman-Liberty of Valparaiso rank first and second among the MVC's steal leaders with a combined total of 3.8 steals per game during league play.
[/left] This is true in conference only.
Who cares? That's still a great stat and if we can turn UNI over like that we can stay in the game. Them living up to that stat and giving us four extra possessions could be key in this game.
No one cares about stats. They are completely meaningless.
Only 65% of them are.
Spread: UNI -4
O/U 148.5
Valpo 81
UNI 75
Quote from: Valpower on February 04, 2020, 03:09:29 PM
Quote from: Just Sayin on February 04, 2020, 01:23:59 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 04, 2020, 01:16:26 PMQuote from: Just Sayin link=topic=3651.msg123222#msg123222 date=1580843152 From article:left]QuoteJohn Kiser and Javon Freeman-Liberty of Valparaiso rank first and second among the MVC's steal leaders with a combined total of 3.8 steals per game during league play.
[/left] This is true in conference only.
Who cares? That's still a great stat and if we can turn UNI over like that we can stay in the game. Them living up to that stat and giving us four extra possessions could be key in this game.
No one cares about stats. They are completely meaningless.
Only 65% of them are.
It's not that stats are meaningless it's that some people only look at stats that help their cause or argument. When one looks at stats they must look at all the stats not just the ones that help them make a certain argument. That is true 100% of the time when the argument you are making is only 50% correct.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 04, 2020, 01:16:26 PM
Quote from: Just Sayin link=topic=3651.msg123222#msg123222 date=1580843152
From article:
left]QuoteJohn Kiser and Javon Freeman-Liberty of Valparaiso rank first and second among the MVC's steal leaders with a combined total of 3.8 steals per game during league play.
[/left]
This is true in conference only.
Who cares? That's still a great stat and if we can turn UNI over like that we can stay in the game. Them living up to that stat and giving us four extra possessions could be key in this game.
The other stat that must be looked at is how many of those steals turn into Valpo points. I seem to remember that many times when Valpo steals the ball they turn it over again back to the opposition.
I believe this game is PIVOTAL in terms of our confidence building into late February and St. Louis. UNI is on the cusp of an at large bid, currently a 10 seed with Lunardi and ranked top 55 in nearly everyone ranking. We played them well on their home court, JFL needs to get back on track. I think Fazekas has had enough playing time so the offense will hopefully flow. Sackey hits a couple 3s and Valpo wins. Line moved from +4.5 to +3.5 for Valpo already, money line at Valpo +140 which I'll be taking. We've got to WIN A HOME GAME vs this team. It's on Lottich IMO, Jacobson is the better coach but can Lottich prove he's right there as well. We hold Green to <16 and Valpo wins 74-67.
Deep rotations allow you to maintain fresh legs to apply intense defensive pressure, keep the shooters in a comfort zone, and make you hard to scout, but it can sometimes be at the expense of identity, which leads to inconsistency. JFL is our go-to guy offensively, but beyond him it's been murky. UNI is the opposite with the starting five logging serious minutes. AJ is their offensive leader, but when he's off there's no confusion about who's supposed to pick up the slack and that's why they're so consistent.
Fazekas' return can't be undervalued as it adds clarity, brings a new weapon, and changes the way teams defend us, which improves the output of our other players. We've seen it already. In many ways, UNI is facing a vastly different team. If we use our depth to aggressively force turnovers and work the inside game early, we should be able to endure foul trouble better than they can and test their bench strength. It should be a great game.
I just looked online for game day articles from the Post Trib and NWI Times, and couldn't find anything. Unless I'm missing them, it seems that spotty pregame coverage has become the new norm. Contrast this with the Waterloo Cedar Falls newspaper game day article I posted earlier, replete with direct quotes from both coaches.
Quote from: wh on February 05, 2020, 10:39:09 AM
I just looked online for game day articles from the Post Trib and NWI Times, and couldn't find anything. Unless I'm missing them, it seems that spotty pregame coverage has become the new norm. Contrast this with the Waterloo Cedar Falls newspaper game day article I posted earlier, replete with direct quotes from both coaches.
Sadly this is a reality. I wish it were not the case. Not sure exactly why we aren't be asked to write previews. Maybe they don't generate page clicks. Maybe we don't have enough space. Maybe if the team was in first place. I don't have the answers. Trust me when I tell you it isn't lack of effort on reporters side. It might not even be lack of effort from the sports editors. It could be the higherups or some other answer that alludes me.
It really does seem to be a chicken or the egg thing. VU averages less than 3,000 fans per game. Would they average more fans per game if we wrote more articles? Would we write more articles if more fans were at the games? I really don't know the answer and I don't even know if they two are linked.
A look at our five "most popular" sports stories today shows 1) Local football players going to VU, 2) Griffith bowling, 3) Wrestling sectionals 4) DAC Swim meet 5) Munster/Lowell boys basketball. A look at the five "most popular" at the Waterloo paper shows five high school stories.
I don't think I've said anything here that we don't already know. High school sports drive the market. If I wrote a story about three California kids committing to VU football, would it be ranked as the most popular? Definitely not. All I can ask you to do is keep reading, and I'll keep trying to put out good stuff when given the opportunity. I've got another episode of Union Street Hoops coming out in a couple hours. I hope you'll enjoy it.
Quote from: Valpower on February 05, 2020, 10:09:20 AM
Deep rotations allow you to maintain fresh legs to apply intense defensive pressure, keep the shooters in a comfort zone, and make you hard to scout, but it can sometimes be at the expense of identity, which leads to inconsistency. JFL is our go-to guy offensively, but beyond him it's been murky. UNI is the opposite with the starting five logging serious minutes. AJ is their offensive leader, but when he's off there's no confusion about who's supposed to pick up the slack and that's why they're so consistent.
Fazekas' return can't be undervalued as it adds clarity, brings a new weapon, and changes the way teams defend us, which improves the output of our other players. We've seen it already. In many ways, UNI is facing a vastly different team. If we use our depth to aggressively force turnovers and work the inside game early, we should be able to endure foul trouble better than they can and test their bench strength. It should be a great game.
Very strong point about depth being a really puzzler for establishing an identify. I believe this team is starting to understand roles and this "should" begin to
reduce the scoring droughts and defensive blunders. I still think UNI is better at nearly every position 1-5 in many ways, Green is an absolute stud and is polished offensively.
Many have said Javon is working through an injury, and I believe it. This is forcing our other players to step up when Javon is not playing with that step faster and scoring at will. That being said, here is what that has looked like going back to Fazekas return at Missouri State:
Missouri StateSackey 4/9 FG, Clay 2/9 FG, Gordon 1/9 FG, Mileek 4/8 FG, Fazekas 2/5 FG
EvansvilleMileek 6/9 FG and then 4 guys with 5+ attempts
BradleyClay 6/12, Fazekas 5/12 and then 2 guys with 5+ attempts
Illinois StateClay 5/11, Krikke 6/8 and then 4 guys with 5+ attempts
Even before Fazekas' return we had inexperienced players (with each other) and there was a goodly amount of "no . . . you score" going around with the team. With Javon seemingly not driving to the basket like the OOC schedule (being doubled & hobbled) we need others that open up the defense and allow for offensive flow. I am starting to really like Zion Morgan getting more minutes because he opens up the lanes and his drives are taken seriously. His energy and length are unmatched by most of those that guard him. I like his upside and I would like to see more minutes for Zion down the stretch. It's obvious that Sackey is a great leader, but sometimes you have to limit his minutes on these dry spells and I see coach doing just that.
With how poorly we have started games . . . what's wrong with starting Zion at PG and seeing what he can bring. Is that too big of a blow to Sackey?
Quote from: Pgmado on February 05, 2020, 11:52:59 AM
Quote from: wh on February 05, 2020, 10:39:09 AM
I just looked online for game day articles from the Post Trib and NWI Times, and couldn't find anything. Unless I'm missing them, it seems that spotty pregame coverage has become the new norm. Contrast this with the Waterloo Cedar Falls newspaper game day article I posted earlier, replete with direct quotes from both coaches.
Sadly this is a reality. I wish it were not the case. Not sure exactly why we aren't be asked to write previews. Maybe they don't generate page clicks. Maybe we don't have enough space. Maybe if the team was in first place. I don't have the answers. Trust me when I tell you it isn't lack of effort on reporters side. It might not even be lack of effort from the sports editors. It could be the higherups or some other answer that alludes me.
It really does seem to be a chicken or the egg thing. VU averages less than 3,000 fans per game. Would they average more fans per game if we wrote more articles? Would we write more articles if more fans were at the games? I really don't know the answer and I don't even know if they two are linked.
A look at our five "most popular" sports stories today shows 1) Local football players going to VU, 2) Griffith bowling, 3) Wrestling sectionals 4) DAC Swim meet 5) Munster/Lowell boys basketball. A look at the five "most popular" at the Waterloo paper shows five high school stories.
I don't think I've said anything here that we don't already know. High school sports drive the market. If I wrote a story about three California kids committing to VU football, would it be ranked as the most popular? Definitely not. All I can ask you to do is keep reading, and I'll keep trying to put out good stuff when given the opportunity. I've got another episode of Union Street Hoops coming out in a couple hours. I hope you'll enjoy it.
I blame Paul Oren for our attendance woes. Everyone with me? :)
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 05, 2020, 12:25:06 PM
Quote from: Valpower on February 05, 2020, 10:09:20 AM
Deep rotations allow you to maintain fresh legs to apply intense defensive pressure, keep the shooters in a comfort zone, and make you hard to scout, but it can sometimes be at the expense of identity, which leads to inconsistency. JFL is our go-to guy offensively, but beyond him it's been murky. UNI is the opposite with the starting five logging serious minutes. AJ is their offensive leader, but when he's off there's no confusion about who's supposed to pick up the slack and that's why they're so consistent.
Fazekas' return can't be undervalued as it adds clarity, brings a new weapon, and changes the way teams defend us, which improves the output of our other players. We've seen it already. In many ways, UNI is facing a vastly different team. If we use our depth to aggressively force turnovers and work the inside game early, we should be able to endure foul trouble better than they can and test their bench strength. It should be a great game.
Very strong point about depth being a really puzzler for establishing an identify. I believe this team is starting to understand roles and this "should" begin to reduce the scoring droughts and defensive blunders. I still think UNI is better at nearly every position 1-5 in many ways, Green is an absolute stud and is polished offensively.
Many have said Javon is working through an injury, and I believe it. This is forcing our other players to step up when Javon is not playing with that step faster and scoring at will. That being said, here is what that has looked like going back to Fazekas return at Missouri State:
Missouri State
Sackey 4/9 FG, Clay 2/9 FG, Gordon 1/9 FG, Mileek 4/8 FG, Fazekas 2/5 FG
Evansville
Mileek 6/9 FG and then 4 guys with 5+ attempts
Bradley
Clay 6/12, Fazekas 5/12 and then 2 guys with 5+ attempts
Illinois State
Clay 5/11, Krikke 6/8 and then 4 guys with 5+ attempts
Even before Fazekas' return we had inexperienced players (with each other) and there was a goodly amount of "no . . . you score" going around with the team. With Javon seemingly not driving to the basket like the OOC schedule (being doubled & hobbled) we need others that open up the defense and allow for offensive flow. I am starting to really like Zion Morgan getting more minutes because he opens up the lanes and his drives are taken seriously. His energy and length are unmatched by most of those that guard him. I like his upside and I would like to see more minutes for Zion down the stretch. It's obvious that Sackey is a great leader, but sometimes you have to limit his minutes on these dry spells and I see coach doing just that.
With how poorly we have started games . . . what's wrong with starting Zion at PG and seeing what he can bring. Is that too big of a blow to Sackey?
Solid points. Clearly we need to rely on others than just Javon and if we do, it actually will help Javon do his thing. Notwithstanding the hype about how he worked in the off season to improve his shot (no doubt he did), something is off and, as mentioned by others it may be an injury. He is 2-20 from the 3 in the last four games and 13-61( 21.3%) for the conference so far. That's the worst on the team. Forget the three ball, drive and dish! We need to get their bigs in foul trouble and/or go to a five guard lineup and run, run ,run! Should be a great game!
Quote from: vu72 on February 05, 2020, 01:05:36 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 05, 2020, 12:25:06 PM
Quote from: Valpower on February 05, 2020, 10:09:20 AM
...
...
Even before Fazekas' return we had inexperienced players (with each other) and there was a goodly amount of "no . . . you score" going around with the team. ...
... Forget the three ball, drive and dish! ...
Part of the reluctance to score and the inability to drive and dish might be that the outside threat was not taken seriously. It's difficult to space properly for it when the defense clogs the interior and dares you to shoot from the perimeter.
Quote from: valpotx on February 05, 2020, 12:44:10 PMWith how poorly we have started games . . . what's wrong with starting Zion at PG and seeing what he can bring.
Interesting idea. It would be a difficult sell for me to believe he should get starter minutes but within the general cap of 15 total min per game I'm flexible on how that might be best achieved. On defense Zion is frequently equal or superior to Sackey depending on the situation and opponent.
Quote from: Valpower on February 05, 2020, 01:20:39 PMPart of the reluctance to score and the inability to drive and dish might be that the outside threat was not taken seriously. It's difficult to space properly for it when the defense clogs the interior and dares you to shoot from the perimeter.
My point was for Javon to drive and dish. What happened last year was we didn't have anybody who could shoot with Ryan out. This year WITH Ryan and improved options in Clay, Robinson and Gordon, and even an improved Sackey, we can still make them guard. Javon needs to do what he does BEST. That's my point.
Check out Matt "all miced up"
https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1224842854436130817/pu/vid/640x360/n4YybnwZbixPXVih.mp4?tag=10
Will be watching from my hotel room tonight. Wife says it's snowing. Please tell me we're not going to be facing the best team in the conference in front of 1,200 people tonight.
Loyola is getting their butt kicked by Indiana State.
They're doing a big a student promotion but the roads were a :censored: show when I and my spouse were driving home from work. Like 30 minutes to go give miles bad. accidents everywhere.
Sig not dressed again. I'm smelling medical redshirt. If I recall, player can't play in > 30% of total games. 30% x 31 games = 9.3. Sig has played in 9. The math works.
So I'm going to apologize in advance. I just returned to my room to watch the game. Been out celebrating with some friends / colleagues on the impending sale of one of our divisions. I'm fired up and ready to vastly overreact to every little thing tonight.
About to make 1314 look like a calm, rational, unemotional member of this board tonight.
(Love you, 1314!)
Was planning to go but roads did not allow with the time constraints to travel from Illinois. Light crowd will hopefully fill in a few minutes late. Those in the seats will have to be extra loud. Go Crusaders!
A slow offensive start. I'm shocked. SHOCKED I tell you!
7 minutes and we are shooting 9%
I think there is something wrong with the west rim.
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 05, 2020, 07:14:49 PM
7 minutes and we are shooting 9%
This inept offense to start games is extraordinarily hard to watch. How do we continue to miss the rim on layups...
On pace for 12 points tonight, excellent start
I enjoy an adult beverage from time to time. I have never in my 40+ years on this earth drank enough to black out.
That streak may end tonight.
Will we get to double digits by half?
Is this the motion offense you guys were telling me about?
I'm getting close to going home. One more TO period. This just doesn't seem to be our night.
We need you, Bruce!
trust the process, we are young. Fazekas will be back soon enough. We have a motion offense. No worries.
Don't care if every single player on the roster transfers. Get rid of this coach.
Looks like the guys showed up to play tonight!
Sounds like a tough weather night. That makes me admire the 459 fans and 9 students in their section even more.
What a depressing display of offense and fan support.
Matt Lottich is like a deer in headlights. No clue how to run set plays to get players open, this is a joke and will continue to be, ML and the AD are incompetent. 9 points, 17 minutes in. Lottich just resign please. Their shots look so off, maybe something going awry in the weight room, wow this staff cant put it together.
NativeCheesehead stole VUgrad1314's password
Don't worry guys. We'll cut it to 5 in the second half before losing by 16.
Another moral victory!
NativeCheeshead, that's spot on. I was about to say that.
By the way, whats the drink of choice tonight?
Well we got 19 by half so we did get to double digits. I guess that's something.
Manhattans my friend. Manhattans in Manhattan. Poetic, yet potent.
Gordon gets elbowed to the head on his shot and is lying in pain on the court. Everyone sees it clearly on the replay as it is determined not to be a flagrant foul, but it should have been an "and one," and milquetoast Lottich doesn't even complain at all to the officials about the non-call. I give up on trying to understand this :censored: !
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 05, 2020, 07:41:16 PM
Don't worry guys. We'll cut it to 5 in the second half before losing by 16.
Another moral victory!
I'm not at all in a laughing mood, but I have to admit I chuckled when I read this.
I'm real classy tonight, Admiral Nelson and Coke. Matt's interview tells you everything you need to know. "We need to play harder" THAT STARTS WITH YOU MATT, get them going , call a timeout, get a T, DO FAWKING SOMETHING. UGHH! I wouldn't be so angry if I didnt think we had the talent, but we do IMO! ML is squandering it.
That half was so hopeless LaBarbera gave Tracy Dorow another contract extension.
It bothers me when coaches always point hard effort and not playing hard enough. That's not always the solution. We need an identity, set plays, an offense (I heard we have a motion one, but haven't seen it), teamwork, strategy.
If every time my team was losing all I came up with was to play harder, I would lose the locker room. Be smarter.
Our best player had 2 shots. Were there any plays set up for him? How many screens did we give him? You think Bruce would set back and not design something for Alec?
Quote from: valpopal on February 05, 2020, 07:48:20 PM
Gordon gets elbowed to the head on his shot and is lying in pain on the court. Everyone sees it clearly on the replay as it is determined not to be a flagrant foul, but it should have been an "and one," and milquetoast Lottich doesn't even complain at all to the officials about the non-call. I give up on trying to understand this :censored: !
Im sure you heard what Matt said in a recent postgame. He says the refs have a harder job than he does and believes they are not intentionally trying to screw us (my paraphrase). Said he just calmly asks them to explain. He may agree or disagree. You can like it. You can hate it. But that's the way it is. I will say this. I've never taken to kindly to someone yelling at me. That person will never get the response they're looking for. Matt may be on to something.
F@&$ this game. Going back to the hotel bar.
You're all awesome. Let's get rid of this coach and MAKE VALPO BASKETBALL NOT SUCK AGAIN.
This is U G L Y
https://youtu.be/PRLHbHm1tB4
Quote from: wh on February 05, 2020, 07:59:37 PM
Quote from: valpopal on February 05, 2020, 07:48:20 PM
Gordon gets elbowed to the head on his shot and is lying in pain on the court. Everyone sees it clearly on the replay as it is determined not to be a flagrant foul, but it should have been an "and one," and milquetoast Lottich doesn't even complain at all to the officials about the non-call. I give up on trying to understand this :censored: !
Im sure you heard what Matt said in a recent postgame. He says the refs have a harder job than he does and believes they are not intentionally trying to screw us (my paraphrase). Said he just calmly asks them to explain. He may agree or disagree. You can like it. You can hate it. But that's the way it is. I will say this. I've never taken to kindly to someone yelling at me. That person will never get the response they're looking for. Matt may be on to something.
Being a bit more forceful toward the officials isn't just to get to them, but it also shows your players the coach has their backs and it energizes the team. The coach can be selective, and the long lull in the first half was the perfect time for that action. However, we could just go with what Matt has said, since we can all see that has worked so well! ;)
Someday I hope we will recruit some shooters. Good athletes are good to have and all, but occasionally somebody has to make a shot.
I miss the days when Valpo basketball was fun to watch and put me in a great mood, not a pissed off/stressed mood.
Honest question.
Was there one Bryce Drew team that would lose to any of Lottich's coached teams?
This is on the players. Missed a ton of wide open 3s. That is not Lottich's fault.
Clay is good.
And the percentage of Sackey's "slashes" to the rim which are successful is ...?
This is the type of game where the players need to look at themselves in the mirror when they get home, and decide if they want to be another bottom-dwelling MVC team. That was a pathetic shooting effort, and many of the shots were uncontested or barely contested.
ALL YOU NEED IS A :rant: PULSE FROM 3!!! Christ, that is so frustrating to watch. Do you all really think that the coaching strategy is to miss at the rim and miss open 3's!?!
Hard to believe Loyola and Ill St. looked even worse on the scoreboard tonight. I just want to be pleasantly surprised one time by this team. Pattern continues in the most aggravating manner.
Me: "I'm so sick of this mediocrity!"
Fellow alum: "Mediocrity would be an upgrade."
Quote from: valpolaw on February 05, 2020, 08:32:38 PM
I miss the days when Valpo basketball was fun to watch and put me in a great mood, not a pissed off/stressed mood.
Frankly, I don't know if this was ever the case. I've been scaring the dog (actually 2 dogs now) into the other room for years because of Valpo Basketball. Yes, even the Bryce years.
This UNI team is good, and I'll give them credit.
But we have had a lot of Valpo teams over the years (not the last 3 years) that could hang and beat this team.
Vashil would have swatted everything in the paint. Alec would have hit 3's (got open by great Jubril screens) Carter/Lexus/Shane would have driven into the lane.
Or, KW/Bobby would have neutralized their big man, Rowdy would have hit 3's, Woods/Buggs/Bogan/Kenney/Boggs would have driven in to the lane.
#truth
Wow. That was tough to watch yet alone enjoy as some form of cruel irony. When will the buck stop with the coaching?
When patterns remain - even after all sorts of players transfer - and our head coach is the lone common denominator ... when will we face the music?
We have the talent. We do not come out prepared. Plain and simple. Our body language says it all. The fans, student section, etc. (or lack there of) say it all.
We are not progressing nicely. Things are not going well. Bearing other bottom of the league teams and digging ourselves out of holes for mediocrity is not good enough - is it?
I'm at the point where I don't even get upset any longer. It's become an expectation. And I'm having a hard time - apart from tradition and a financial investment - wondering why I continue wasting my time and money.
If MLB gives Matt a 4 year extension, we all need to accept this is the Valpo way. This is it and as good as it's going to get. We'll win some here and there ... beat teams out of pure talent or luck or by having a good night or by the other team not but mediocre would be a goal at this point.
That was an incredibly boring game day experience. No way administration can be there and think this is trending in the right direction.
I'm an eternal optimist but come on.
I don't want to be the guy who bangs the drum for a coaching change, but I think we've seen enough of a sample size. Yes there are roster flaws on this team but the long offensive lapse are unacceptable and have been consistent theme through Lottich's tenure.
I don't know what the answer is but this team should be playing better. They play hard, I'll give them that. There is talent on this team for sure.
I'll be honest, the Lottich era has just exhausted me and I love this team/program. I'm just tired...
The slow starts are no longer a trend, they're an epidemic. I saw the World Health Organization has a press conference scheduled for Thursday. I assume this is what they'll be talking about.
Going 3-23 from 3pt land and 16-57 FG can't be all on the coach. The shots were there. The plays were drawn up. The bottom line is the ball needs to go through the net and that didn't happen.
Kiser, Krikke 0 pts.
Sackey 1 pt.
McMillan 3 pts.
Clay 4 pts.
Each one of those players scores 1 bucket and we may be having a different conversation this morning.
The first few minutes, the shots weren't good, but after that we were just missing everything no matter how open. If this was a one game thing, fine, but this happens consistently. We only have one person that can consistently make a jump shot and that is Ryan. But at this point in most ball players career they aren't just going to transform into shooters, so while we might improve next year, I have a hard time seeing us moving up all that much. We are going to lose our only consistent shooter and maybe Clay or Krikke or Javon (if he doesn't bail) improves their shot a little but will it really be enough to make up for Ryan AND then some (or really a lot, which is what we need after another sub 15% 3pt shooting night)? I am guessing no.
Edit: To be fair, we will also be adding Ognacevic and Edwards. Ognacevic is averaging like 39 and 19, and I think I saw somehwere that he is shooting like 38% from three, which is okay but that is also from high school distance against high school competition. Edwards is supposed to be a good shooter though. So hopefully they can contribute right out of the gate.
At about 14 mins 2d half, after a run to cut to 10, we had three straight good defensive possessions and a chance to cut the lead down to around 4-5. We botched shots and shot selection. And, even after that the D continued to provide opportunities. 3 for 23 from 3. I don't know how you can be that bad. (and that wasn't our first horrible, terrible, no good shooting night from 3). I said it last year, and I said it this year. This is not a good shooting club. There are not natural shooters on this team, except Ryan. And, Ryan has problems squaring his body on a consistent basis. McMillan should be benched every time he clangs a 3. He needs to play PF and stay in the box areas and set picks. It was frustrating and all you anti-Matters, he tried everything last night except come off the bench and shoot for the team. He even went Rockets-small and that couldn't get buckets. There was plenty of motion, but the players continue to not pass quick enough, be ready to shoot when they get the ball in rhythm.
Positives -- defense held them down and gave chances, but the PLAYERS have to start converting. Matt gets 1 more year, but the incoming players better be shooters (Jacob and Edwards). Words for calm today -- Clay is still a frosh, JFL still a soph, Krikke is a frosh, Jacob and Edwards are coming. BTW, I walked out of the board last night because of all the triggers you all were posting. 8-)
Quote from: VALPO LI on February 06, 2020, 05:19:52 AMGoing 3-23 from 3pt land and 16-57 FG can't be all on the coach. The shots were there. The plays were drawn up. The bottom line is the ball needs to go through the net and that didn't happen. Kiser, Krikke 0 pts. Sackey 1 pt. McMillan 3 pts. Clay 4 pts. Each one of those players scores 1 bucket and we may be having a different conversation this morning.
Thats what makes this argument hard for me... I do think there is something with the coaching that is an issue with these slow starts. JFL not taking shots in the first half while the team is dying out there is an example of that. BUT with that being said, missed layups, sets that result in wide open threes, ball movement that gets the ball to the open mans hands shows there is some good coaching and the players just are not finishing. Made shots open up the floor and force the defense to adjust.
We have heard just about every excuse from the coach and the few remaining supporters.
I want to address one of the many excuses, "we are in a much tougher conference."
Yes, but those HL championship team we had would definitely compete and possibly win it all in the mvc.
The last 3 years of valpo mvc teams would finish middle of the pack in a bad HL.
#truth
Look I'm a huge Lottich skeptic trying REALLY HARD to see positives in this era but these Valpo teams would finish no lower than third in the current HL and you know that is true. You get no argument that Bryce fielded some teams (particularly in the Peters era) that would have competed and maybe even won the MVC but there is no way any of these Valpo MVC teams under Lottich would finish any worse than third in the HL and you can book that. It would be Wright State NKU and us fighting it out for the title every year. The tougher conference argument carries a lot of water. When is the last time we played against a team even remotely the caliber of UNI or 2018 Loyola that wasn't Butler? The third highest team in the HL in the NET is still lower than the 9th lowest MVC team and more than 50 SPOTS lower than the 8th lowest MVC team. And they get the benefit of pounding on the bottom of the HL while these MVC teams have to play each other and take more losses. The NET rewards winning first and foremost and yet the third highest HL team is lower than the 9th MVC team. Lottich would have been delivering great or at least acceptable results in the HL but it seems to be fairly clear that he is not an MVC caliber coach. Bryce probably is but we don't even know that for sure. I think his last few years at Valpo tell us that he'd probably be fine and honestly as much as I hate to say this and as much as I hate to go running back to the Drews because it means our program isn't ready we truly aren't ready to build a program without the Drews. That is so evidently clear. Our best hope for success seems to be Bryce returning on a mission of mercy to help us contend and bring back fan interest while the department and administration have a few years to get their crap together and make us a true MVC caliber program. With Bryce taking care of the big stuff maybe they can focus on these little details they seem to be having so much trouble doing (like they should have done in the first place but who's keeping score?)
I doubt it but it's a what if scenario.
Finishing top 3 HL in nothing to brag about.
I think Bryce won it more times than not.
That's precisely the point Mick. This is a much better conference. To finish in the top 3 here you have to be pretty good. You don't have to be any good to do that in the current HL. This conference is way tougher. That argument is unassailable. The debate is whether Lottich (who would definitely have done fine in the HL as he showed and as the metrics of the conference show) is an MVC caliber coach. I think we both come out on the same side of that debate though I'm looking for any reason at all to change my opinion. As Tracy Chapman once sang "Give me a reason to stay here (in this relationship ie the Lottich tenure) and I'll turn right back around." But so far we have precious little to go on I'm afraid.
Honestly, if it wasn't for that abysmal first half, I don't think I'd be upset at all with the loss or even losing by 12 to a REALLY good at large contender in UNI. Got to remember there is a lot of parity in this league. Still only 2 games out of 3rd place with 7 games to go.
In this tough stretch of 3 games, most didn't expect us to win them all.
Now the good news is based on the conference record thus far, never winning or losing two in a row, we are set for a nice victory against Loyola on Sunday on National TV.
Not a huge fan of the conference to conference comparisons. Both leagues have changed so much over just the last 5 years. But it does come back to a point I've made many times. Easy call to move to the MVC. But for the Prez to ok the move and not IMMEDIATELY start even the smallest committee or major fundraising for a ARC reno was close to institutional malpractice. We at Vu have often been accused of arrogance by our former conference mates, but the level of arrogance in assuming we could compete in this conference with our lackluster building is a new level.
Honest question. How many of us would be feeling much less frustration at these losses sitting a nice padded seat, actually hearing the PA announcer calling each basket, and walking a few hundred feet to a nice covered parking garage? Losing always sucks, but when almost every aspect of the experience is annoying and uncomfortable before the game even starts, with little hope of that experience improving on the horizon, it is exhausting as a fan.
Maybe that's my point:
We are ok with losing to a really good possibly at large team.
Shooooot, we would have been pissed in years previous. No matter which league, us as a fan base would have been disappointed and upset if we lost to anyone. Plus our previous teams wouldn't be losing to this uni team. At least not in the manner we did.
But now it's ok to lose to good teams. Didn't used to be.
Wasn't it Einstein who is credited for saying the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results?
How long will we buy this whole progressing nicely and they're young guys Narrative?
At what point do we say our expectations are higher than this? As others have pointed out, this is not the same MVC as it was a few years ago with Wichita State in it. And this isn't the same HL as the one that saw some really good rivalries Valpo had with butler, Detroit, and later Oakland.
Would we be doing better in the current HL? Who cares. That's the real answer.
That's a moot point, isn't it?
I only asked the question to put in perspective where this team is.
What I am concerned about in evaluating Matt and our move to the MVC is the focus others have had on the end of our time in the HL and those historic years before the move to the MVC.
When we moved to the HL there was an adjustment period and things were not smooth those first few years. Teams need to learn how leagues are played (HL was a very guard-orientated league), and where the top teams' talents/strengths are. You can't compete at the top without knowing what the top looks like night in night out. There is no comparison between the MVC and HL in level of play -- all metrics show this. The bottom of the HL nearly guarantees 4-6 wins a year (YSU, CSU and lately UWM, Detroit). The top of the HL when we moved had Butler with additional solid teams in UWGB and Wright State (and a brief spell of Detroit), but the MVC has teams 1-10 that have had good programs over decades with multiple bids and wins in the NCAAs.
Reality is our first 4 years in the HL were not impressive, but to use a word I have seen on the board -- mediocre, but we were seeing stuttered promise and progress of recruits and transfers-in.
Yr 1 HL 2007-08 tied-4th 9-9 (overall 22-14 with somehow a CBI invite) Lost to Butler 73-65 (A) and 71-68 (H)
Yr 2 HL 2008-09 9th 5-13 (overall 9-22) Lost to Butler 75-62 (H), 59-51 (A)
Yr 3 HL 2009-10 4th 10-8 (overall 15-17) Lost to Butler 84-67 (L), 74-69 (H)
Yr 4 HL 2010-11 4th 12-6 (overall 23-12) Lost at Butler 76-59, won 74-69 (H)
Yr 5 HL 2011-12 Bryce's first year, 1st 14-4 (overall 22-12) Beat Butler 77-71 (A), 71-59 (H), 65-46 (Tourney) lost to Detroit Finals
MVC first 3 years -- 2017-18 6-12 (overall 15-17)
2018-19 7-11 (overall 15-18)
2019-20 ?? (about .500 9-9, 10-8, 8-10; ??? overall about .500)
Also, what were some of the major points we made during those HL years Butler and AB (After Butler) -- (i) the Valpo drought from first media time out to 8 minute media time out, (ii) can't win against P5s, (iii) can't win the big games on TV (conference or non-conference).
My point is there are transitional periods. It is still hard to determine whether Matt is a high-level mid-major coach as his recruiting strategy and coaching strategy have not demonstrated a long enough track record. His primary recruits JFL, Clay, Jacob, Edwards, Krikke appear to be solid. Next year is the critical year both in the transitional period and his coaching progress. Continuity of players and coaches is a key ingredient to success in a conference. The continuity of Homer to Bryce as coaches meant continuity of personnel and Bryce's first year showed the jump in performance. The next year Butler leaves and we become the top of the conference. If we had moved the year after Bryce, our MVC record is likely placing us near the top, similar to that first year from AMCU to HL at least overall record and possibly better than 9-9. Because of the inconsistency of rosters and the jump in SOS, it is hard to understand where we should be now and where we should have been. But, the lack of individual success of the transfers from last year also tends to show maybe how good Matt did to get that team to compete last year. Moreover, the D continues to improve as they play together and develop chemistry.
After a 0-7 start against Butler, we then reeled off 4 in a row. But think how big a mental hump that was. Think about the nationally televised game where they hit the shot at the buzzer to win. We knew we were close. Loyola is that new mental hump (0-6 since the move)(we have at least beat UNI (1-5). We need to beat Loyola as a benchmark that progress is being made. But it wasn't until YEAR 4 of the HL transition that we finally beat Butler and in the 2d matchup of the season at home.
We were spoiled by those BDrew years because it seemed easy in the HL, but there was a building project that took 4-5 years to establish that high level. One of the worst things that has happened is BDREW being let go at Vandy because his shadow now projects on the ARC and Matt. That is unfair to Matt and the players. It's tough enough to follow a legend, ask Gene Bartow.
I would kill for a 4th place finish. Also everyone knew hommer was only a couple years away from handing it to Bryce. Once Bryce was ready, 1st palace in his first year. Lottich didn't get the opportunity to be an assistant or 2nd assistant as Bryce did for many years.
I don't think Valpo as a whole is committed to competing in the Valley. They are a leech in this conference in pretty much all sports. The university needs to up the ante.
Quote from: usc4valpo on February 07, 2020, 06:17:46 PM
I don't think Valpo as a whole is committed to competing in the Valley. They are a leech in this conference in pretty much all sports. The university needs to up the ante.
Now that is pretty funny. A leech? Try Evansville who hasn't been in the Valley for 3 years, but 23 years if I'm not mistaken. Their men's team is 0-11 and their women's team?? 0-10. Now there is commitment.
72 - how did Valpo generally do in all Valley sports? It was a pathetic result. It's nice to be invited to the party, but it d be nice to contribute and participate and make the party better. I agree Evansville sucks this year, but give them credit for beating Kentucky.
Quote from: usc4valpo on February 08, 2020, 09:58:14 AM
72 - how did Valpo generally do in all Valley sports? It was a pathetic result. It's nice to be invited to the party, but it d be nice to contribute and participate and make the party better. I agree Evansville sucks this year, but give them credit for beating Kentucky.
.
Not sure I would call it pathetic. The fall sports we didn't finish last in any of them. Volleyball finished 5th out of 10. Evansville was worse than we are in all sports so far--Men's and Women's soccer (Men's were 0-10) Volleyball and now both basketball teams. Yes, last year sucked but we are growing into the league. As I said earlier, a school like Evansville has no excuses. I do believe that across the board our teams are getting better. To be sure, not as fast as any of us would like.
I just hope we expect more than being committed to mediocrity. Valpo can be at the same level as UNI if there is true commitment. I don't see it with the current infrastructure.
We are being more competitive in all sports. We got 5th in Volleyball, 5th in Men's Soccer, and 5th in Women's Soccer. I believe that our Men's CC finished 5th, as well, but Women's was 9th?