Valpo to Visit Loyola in Nationally-Televised Matchup
http://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/news/2019-20/19677/valpo-to-visit-loyola-in-nationally-televised-matchup/
Super tall order. We need this game (probably the next two) to have a good shot at getting into the top 6. I just don't see us beating Loyola on the road. Hope I'm wrong.
Loyola 72
Valpo 60
Loyola just got spanked...I hope they're still numb so the spanking Valpo is going to deliver won't hurt as much. Valpo wins 78-61!
This has the feel of a blowout.
Valpo 54
Loyola 79
Krutwig 21 pts. 15 Rbs. 5 assists.
Valpo 4-27 from 3.
I really hate that those of you who are predicting a double digit loss are probably far closer to right than wrong. Krutwig is going to eat inside and open up a lot for their shooters. They have a huge advantage. We're going to have to be perfect to steal a win.
I'll be surprised if this game is close but I hope it is
This game is winnable. Just depends on how we show up and what adjustments are made along the way. If we dig ourselves into another big hole - especially since it's supposed to be a sell out crowd - watch out.
If we keep it competitive, make adjustments out of time outs and after half, and get a good game out of Clay, Freeman, a big (idc who), Mileek stays out of foul trouble and works Krutwig in the paint to draw some fouls, and Ryan hits his shots - we can steal this one.
What concerns me is what I saw against UNI. Not the loss. But some of the body language and contention between players. Also the lack of resolve by the coaching staff. Gotta be willing to call time outs and have a plan of attack when coming out of them.
I'm not terribly hopeful for this game. If we have our usual agonizingly slow start and go like 1 for 12 from three in the first half, I see us losing by 15 to 20. If somehow we go 4 for 12 from three and keep our turnovers to 5-6 while turning them over 8-9 in the first half, then I think we have a shot. But our usual course if we did have a good first half would be to stink it up the first 10 minutes of the second half, so even then I'm not very hopeful. I am however prepared to be pleasantly surprised should we somehow manage to put together a complete game and pull off the upset. Come on team, SURPRISE ME!
With Indiana State Drake and Missouri State all taking losses tonight this game has taken on an added importance for us. The opportunity to move into 6th place is right there if we can grab it! Come on Valpo. If you're going to pull one of those surprising upsets now is the time! It's up to us to decide who we are and who we want to be. If we can get hot toward the end of this year we can build on that and have a very special year. If we sputter to the finish once again, that future is less secure.
Just curious? Do they stay the night before in Chicago or drive up same day?
Is there a bus (buses) leaving Valpo heading to Chicago this year for the students and fans?
I believe the University did this last year. I still remember the thorn that Loyola left in my side from last year when they bussed their fans to Valpo.
Last year there was a bus, alumni event and food and drinks before the game. It was really well done. I wasn't able to make it but a couple classmates said it was fantastic. Saw no mention of something similar this year but possible I missed it.
Quote from: VALPO LI on February 09, 2020, 07:42:21 AM
Is there a bus (buses) leaving Valpo heading to Chicago this year for the students and fans?
I believe the University did this last year. I still remember the thorn that Loyola left in my side from last year when they bussed their fans to Valpo.
Bus for students.
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Doubt many students will end up going, but love that this is in place for if/when we build our following again.
Hogwarts 79
Valpo 64
the line is at 8 (down from 9 early this morning) o/u is 136. most of the money is on the home team. most of the money is on the under.
6 minutes to play... Aces and braves tied at 52. so much for lines.
Holy cow that new floor looks awful on TV. I understand what they're trying to do but uggg.
Krutwig reminds me of a guy who just came off the couch after crushing a pizza and some beer, but yet still comes out and dominates somehow
Quote from: talksalot on February 09, 2020, 02:55:07 PMthe line is at 8 (down from 9 early this morning) o/u is 136. most of the money is on the home team. most of the money is on the under. 6 minutes to play... Aces and braves tied at 52. so much for lines.
That Evansville is going to jump up and surprise somebody or a couple of teams. I really thought they were going to do it too. Would have opened up the PIG race big time. That said we still have a shot if we can get a win today. So far not bad. We're hanging in well. Go Valpo!
Pretty pass! Great cut by Ben!
Finally a solid start. Gives us a real chance
Lottich gonna put on a coaching clinic tonight.
First time in a long time that we are not down 10 minutes in. Good job guys.
I really like our offense when it works it's really great to watch. I just hope we don't fall in love with the three.
Looks like a fun environment to play in.
As I was typing we need to limit our 3's, Sackey missed an open look and JFL clanked one up.
I love Krikke's ability to generate and 1s. He's awesome!
And 2 points off an inbound play. We have seen some of that from time to time. Very sparse. However, we never saw it last year or year before. I'll take small steps.
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 09, 2020, 03:22:23 PMAnd 2 points off an inbound play. We have seen some of that from time to time. Very sparse. However, we never saw it last year or year before. I'll take small steps.
Three points really. It was an and 1.
We have no answer to Krutwig. How he doesn't get touches on the block every possession is beyond me.
Javon just hasn't been right the past several games... This drought isn't on Lottich our shot selection has not been great the past few minutes and now we're in trouble.
Well, being in the game was fun while it lasted......
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 09, 2020, 03:37:48 PM
Javon just hasn't been right the past several games... This drought isn't on Lottich our shot selection has not been great the past few minutes and now we're in trouble.
When you can't guard the dribble drive layup without help you will lose most games.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 09, 2020, 03:29:18 PM
We have no answer to Krutwig. How he doesn't get touches on the block every possession is beyond me.
Don't blame the freshmen centers. Mileek fouled himself to the bench with 2 fouls in the first 5 minutes. Totally let his team down.
Quote from: wh on February 09, 2020, 03:42:50 PMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on February 09, 2020, 03:29:18 PMWe have no answer to Krutwig. How he doesn't get touches on the block every possession is beyond me.
Don't blame the freshmen centers. Mileek fouled himself to the bench with 2 fouls in the first 5 minutes. Totally let his team down.
Not blaming anybody. It's just a fact. We have no answer to Krutwig. All things considered I'm actually happy with where we are right now in the game. This could have been so much worse. We need to execute better on offense and hope their shooters cool off a bit. If the Javon we've been used to seeing could show up and get us some buckets that would be great too. Come on Javon We need you.
If they counted hockey assists I think Krutwig would average 15+ a game. Green and JFL may be the top two POY candidates, but there's no doubt in my mind Krut is the most valuable player in the conference.
A better first half than I expected. Too many turnovers and not being able to guard Krutwig at all hurts but at least we're still in the game. I expect they'll ride Krutwig even more in the second half. We need to take better care of the ball and continue to score to stay in this. No ten minute drought to start the second half.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 09, 2020, 03:51:07 PMIf they counted hockey assists I think Krutwig would average 15+ a game. Green and JFL may be the top two POY candidates, but there's no doubt in my mind Krut is the most valuable player in the conference.
Having a big man of his caliber makes everything so much easier on offense. That said the POY race is over. It's Green in a runaway Javon is a distant second and if he doesn't have another big game soon his grip on second (for whatever that's worth) could be in jeopardy.
They have 5 guys with 14 or more minutes. We have 3. We are deeper. IF we can stay close in the 1st 10 minutes, easier hoops and Loyola fouls could carry us down the stretch.
Quote from: valpolaw on February 08, 2020, 05:58:55 PM
I'll be surprised if this game is close but I hope it is
Good call. Surprised?
Our first hole. If this lead grows, the game's over.
Quote from: bbtds on February 09, 2020, 04:00:02 PM
Quote from: valpolaw on February 08, 2020, 05:58:55 PM
I'll be surprised if this game is close but I hope it is
Good call. Surprised?
What's your definition of close? 4 possessions or less? I've never seen so many layups and open 3 point attempts.
I was surprised the first half but 2nd half not starting so hot
Krutwig doesn't look like he has an oz of athleticism in his body but he is eating us alive.
I'm done having any expectations for this team ever again. I expect us to be a Thursday team every year from now on that way if we're even mediocre I can be pleasantly surprised. We are and will continue to be a drain on this conference and never contribute. We are a one family and one tournament moment program and that's it. That's all we'll ever be. STEP UP AND DO SOMETHING VALPO! MAKE ME BELIEVE AGAIN!
Chances of winning this game retreating faster than Krutwig's hairline.
valpo guards seem more worried about steal stats then keeping anyone in front of them. A little ball pressure would help the bigs as they try to keep the ball away from Krutwieg.
And we were all so upset when Loyola got picked over us back in 2013... LOL. Looks really ridiculous now doesn't it? I wonder how many MVC presidents wish they had voted for Murray State instead by now. Probably everyone.
Fazekas and freeman both got fouled on their last few possessions and nothing called.
Quote from: M on February 09, 2020, 04:27:00 PMFazekas and freeman both got fouled on their last few possessions and nothing called.
It's totally the refs fault we're losing...
Not saying that all ....it's our shytty play...they were still both fouled.
L3333k!!!
NBA, and some college teams, run analytics that rate the quality of a shot attempt by where it is, who's taking it, distance from nearest defender, how deep in the shot clock, etc. Would LOVE to see those stats on this team.
Where is Gordon?
Maybe he doesn't fit into Lottich's sophisticated and tremendously successful motion offense but I'm wondering why he has barely touched the court.
#trusttheprocess
Loyola was a bottom feeder for a very very long time in the HL.
Maybe those no calls did make a difference.
Nice comeback - so close to turning that corner.
Someone want to explain how that wasn't a foul at the end there.
That was complete :censored:.
Lottich should run these officials off the floor. They're going to keep screwing us until he stands up for himself and his players.
The replay shows there was no doubt that Javon was fouled on that final play! I have said it before, Lottich's lack of fire toward the officials has created a situation where there is little respect; therefore, other coaches and teams get the crucial calls. Throughout the game, Valpo's players were fouled a number of times and there were no calls. Javon was clearly pissed. Lottich needs to show he has his players backs with the officials, but he never does.
Brutal non-call at the end there.
But, we were thoroughly outplayed, and Loyola let us stay in it with their poor foul shooting.
Very disappointed in this team's body language and attitude around fouls (or lack thereof) this afternoon. That's a reflection on Lottich's lack of fire.
Needs to be addressed in the post game interviews.
Those no calls were as bad as wh's takes on McMillian's play.
Here's an idea How about we stop sucking and falling into double digit holes all the time so that maybe we can build a lead comfortable enough that a non call at the end doesn't matter? It's amazing to me how we can play like crap for 15 minutes in the second half and then one furious rally makes you all forget that fact and focus on the officials or whatever the issue down the stretch was. Play a full 40 minutes and we'll win our fair share of games. But we can't ever do that.
Valpo should be forced to read this poem and commit it to memory Because this sums up the ENTIRE LOTTICH ERA
http://www.basketballsbest.com/onlyonepossession.htm
I'm not encouraged by this performance because of how we got back in the game. McMillan and Kiser hit a slew of threes..not really their thing, and Loyola missed a lot of free throws. Our defense was good. This game shouldn't have been as close as it was. It was a lot more fun being a fan when we were good. The current state of our basketball program is crap. If Lottich stays....we will have player turnover...just a prediction.
Played a decent first half. Dug ourselves a hole in the second. Battled back to make it close. Couldn't pull it out at the end.
Sound familiar?
Frankly, being the best "close losers" in the conference is getting a little old.
I said before this stretch began that the WLWLWLWL pattern in conference was going to get broken and not in the way we would like... I hate being right... And now we get to play the hottest team in the conference followed by a team that is really good at home... It's impossible to predict when our next win will come. Hopefully it's SIU but I'm not holding my breath... Maybe we'll complete the sweep of Illinois State (I hope we do)...
To me nothing is any different. Same story only this time we were a little closer....and it's Loyola.....and there was a foul at the end that should have been called.
But really it's the same story, get out played come back but not enough.
Remember when northern Kentucky jumped from the A-sun to the horizon. And they hired a new coach. Was it the 3rd years they won the HL?
Watch the video of the final play posted by Paul on Twitter. Pause it at the 8-second mark and the hard shoulder contact against Javon is clear. Then watch Lottich's reaction in the background. He will raise his hands as if in the national sign of surrender, as he did elsewhere in the game and always does, and as usual that's about it. Contrast that with the more aggressive actions of Moser or some other conference coaches. No wonder the officials show Lottich no respect.
Quote from: valpopal on February 09, 2020, 05:29:48 PM
Watch the video of the final play posted by Paul on Twitter. Pause it at the 8-second mark and the hard shoulder contact against Javon is clear. Then watch Lottich's reaction in the background. He will raise his hands as if in the national sign of surrender, as he did elsewhere in the game and always does, and as usual that's about it. Contrast that with the more aggressive actions of Moser or some other conference coaches. No wonder the officials show Lottich no respect.
I'm sorry but this is the least of our issues... Getting a couple more calls here and there won't make any difference if we have stretches throughout the game where we don't play any defense or we can't make shots to save our lives... Dan Muller is a super demonstrative coach and so is Greg Lansing and their teams perennially underachieve.
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 09, 2020, 05:26:52 PMRemember when northern Kentucky jumped from the A-sun to the horizon. And they hired a new coach. Was it the 3rd years they won the HL?
What do you bet if NKU or Wright State were called up to the MVC they'd start whipping Matt's butt on a consistent basis in a year or two as well? I certainly wouldn't put it past them...
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 09, 2020, 05:32:37 PM
Quote from: valpopal on February 09, 2020, 05:29:48 PM
Watch the video of the final play posted by Paul on Twitter. Pause it at the 8-second mark and the hard shoulder contact against Javon is clear. Then watch Lottich's reaction in the background. He will raise his hands as if in the national sign of surrender, as he did elsewhere in the game and always does, and as usual that's about it. Contrast that with the more aggressive actions of Moser or some other conference coaches. No wonder the officials show Lottich no respect.
I'm sorry but this is the least of our issues... Getting a couple more calls here and there won't make any difference if we have stretches throughout the game where we don't play any defense or we can't make shots to save our lives... Dan Muller is a super demonstrative coach and so is Greg Lansing and their teams perennially underachieve.
You might think this is the least of our issues, but it is an issue that has cost us a couple conference games, which would make the difference between being in the bottom half of the standings or the top half with an avoidance of a Thursday game in the tournament. I agree with you on the other issues, but looking at one problem does not preclude others from being present as well.
Quote from: valpopal on February 09, 2020, 05:46:19 PMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on February 09, 2020, 05:32:37 PMQuote from: valpopal on February 09, 2020, 05:29:48 PMWatch the video of the final play posted by Paul on Twitter. Pause it at the 8-second mark and the hard shoulder contact against Javon is clear. Then watch Lottich's reaction in the background. He will raise his hands as if in the national sign of surrender, as he did elsewhere in the game and always does, and as usual that's about it. Contrast that with the more aggressive actions of Moser or some other conference coaches. No wonder the officials show Lottich no respect.
I'm sorry but this is the least of our issues... Getting a couple more calls here and there won't make any difference if we have stretches throughout the game where we don't play any defense or we can't make shots to save our lives... Dan Muller is a super demonstrative coach and so is Greg Lansing and their teams perennially underachieve.
You might think this is the least of our issues, but it is an issue that has cost us a couple conference games, which would make the difference between being in the bottom half of the standings or the top half with an avoidance of a Thursday game in the tournament. I agree with you on the other issues, but looking at one problem does not preclude others from being present as well.
True but fixing the execution issue will make the officiating issue a heck of a lot less relevant and also give him more of a leg to stand on with officials if he did choose to get demonstrative. I seriously bet that the officials would laugh right in Lottich's face if he tried to get on them because of how poorly the team plays for significant stretches in almost every game. I would if I were an official. I'd be like "Seriously? You're getting on me for doing a bad job? Your team has never been ready to play a full 40 minutes in any game I've ever done. Maybe you should fix that first before worrying about how I'm doing my job. Notice the plank in your own eye first before worrying about the speck in mine."
Complete horseshit no call on that last possession, not even letting us have an opportunity to tie/win. I was hosting the Valpo Club of DFW watch party at BWWs, and we couldn't hear, but were the ESPNU announcers agreeing that it should have been called? It took them long enough to run the replay, but it looked like a clear foul. Complete BS.
I don't recall the announcers acknowledging the foul but also slammed some stuff around quickly and turned it off.
Has Lottich ever gotten a T? I vaguely remember one but could be wrong.
I'd be interested in seeing him get two T's and get himself tossed early from a game. Not because he'd be standing up for his players though that's a good thing too but to see if we'd actually play BETTER without him on the sidelines... At this point it's a legitimate thing to wonder. For the purposes of this experiment the earlier in the game it happens the more instructive it would prove.
Another thing to notice in Paul's posted video of the final play is that the official was standing right next to the camera, so there is no excuse that he was out of position. He saw the same thing we do but swallowed the whistle
[tweet]1226642662180212740[/tweet]
Even the Loyola fans are saying that was a foul.
Honest question. Why does this one sting worse than any loss this year?
This program is a joke. No other way to put it. The Lottich-apologists will be the only ones left on the boat when it's all said and done... alongside the eternal optimists ... and us long-time Valpo faithful. But, make no mistake about it - the boat has been taking on water for some time now with no real signs of stopping. We need a change. We've almost entirely turned over our roster. What's the only remaining variable? The coaching staff. A 4-year extension at this point would be celebrating what? Another below-average season? Blown opportunities? Declining attendance? More excuses? Give me a break. Many folks have said THIS IS THE YEAR!!! Well, we're now 5-7 in the conference.
In conference, we beat:
1. Evansville (x2). They are now 9-16
2. Drake. They are now 16-9
3. Indiana State. They are now 14-9
4. Illinois State. They are now 8-16
What good non-conference wins do we have .. apart from being 5-7 in the conference?
1. Toledo (back on 11/5). They're now 11-13.
2. SIUE? (back on 11/12). They're now 6-19
3. Grand Canyon (back on 11/22). They're now 10-13
4. Trinity Christian (back on 11/27). They're not even D-1...
5. Central Michigan (back on 12/8). They're 13-9 (So, I guess that's a good one...)
6. High Point (back on 12/18). They're 7-17
What has Lottich done to deserve a new contract?
Sackey with only 11 minutes and Gordon totaled only 6. Neither of them appeared to match up too well with their Loyola counterparts. Matt brought Robinson outside as a a combo 1 or 2 guard instead. In some respects this worked as he picked up 9 assists. We might see more of this going forward but it still didn't get us a win. :(
Morgan didn't play.Was this a coaching decision or something more serious? His defense might have been helpful.
Freeman might now be our worst 3 point shooter. The difference in his pre and post ISUb outside shooting has been huge. We need the old Javon back.
When Mileek knows he is open deep his offerings can really look good. In contrast Krikke must have passed on 12 wide open 3 point opportunities which might have connected ??? If we are going to call Ben a stretch 5 then shouldn't he be doing some stretching? Our offense really stagnated when Krutwig was laying off of him 9 feet.
Please come back Bryce. Maybe we can start a gofundme or something
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 09, 2020, 07:05:22 PM
Honest question. Why does this one sting worse than any loss this year?
One reason is that part of the revival in excitement and energy for the Valpo program requires a strong rivalry with a team in the conference, and that logically would be Loyola. However, because VU is 0-7 against Loyola since entering the conference, it seems foolish to suggest that rivalry really exists. You have to win some of the games. Had Valpo won the two winnable games against Loyola this season, things would be different. A second reason is that many of us who have been longtime Valpo fans remember past rivalries in the Horizon League, first with Butler and then with Loyola, and it stings to witness how both of those programs have surpassed Valpo in recent years either in success on the court or, as seen by Lottich's postgame comment today wishing Valpo had an arena like the Gentile Center, in updated facilities. Consequently, today's loss is like poking at an old and festering wound.
During the offseason somebody needs to pull Javon aside and make him totally rethink his basket runner-rim attack approach. Learning proper high off glass heavy backspin shots will eventually yield him more points and more rebounds. Wherever his pro game might eventually take him this is something needing basic practice and legwork for him to be successful. :thumbsup:
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on February 09, 2020, 07:12:38 PM
This program is a joke. No other way to put it. The Lottich-apologists will be the only ones left on the boat when it's all said and done... alongside the eternal optimists ... and us long-time Valpo faithful. But, make no mistake about it - the boat has been taking on water for some time now with no real signs of stopping. We need a change. We've almost entirely turned over our roster. What's the only remaining variable? The coaching staff. A 4-year extension at this point would be celebrating what? Another below-average season? Blown opportunities? Declining attendance? More excuses? Give me a break. Many folks have said THIS IS THE YEAR!!! Well, we're now 5-7 in the conference.
In conference, we beat:
1. Evansville (x2). They are now 9-16
2. Drake. They are now 16-9
3. Indiana State. They are now 14-9
4. Illinois State. They are now 8-16
What good non-conference wins do we have .. apart from being 5-7 in the conference?
1. Toledo (back on 11/5). They're now 11-13.
2. SIUE? (back on 11/12). They're now 6-19
3. Grand Canyon (back on 11/22). They're now 10-13
4. Trinity Christian (back on 11/27). They're not even D-1...
5. Central Michigan (back on 12/8). They're 13-9 (So, I guess that's a good one...)
6. High Point (back on 12/18). They're 7-17
Hey Golden. have another drink.
Sorry folks. The whining has become overwhelming. The sky is falling for sure. Enjoy your pity party. I'm out.
After reading the following excerpt about the postgame conference in Paul's report, I think it is "high" time Lottich take a different "road":
"There was contact, but I'm not a ref," Freeman-Liberty said.
Valparaiso coach Matt Lottich took the high road when discussing the final play of the game, citing his oft-repeated statement that referees have a hard job.
"We have to do our job and they have to do theirs," Lottich said. "Unfortunately for us, it didn't bounce our way tonight."
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on February 09, 2020, 07:12:38 PM
This program is a joke. No other way to put it. The Lottich-apologists will be the only ones left on the boat when it's all said and done... alongside the eternal optimists ... and us long-time Valpo faithful. But, make no mistake about it - the boat has been taking on water for some time now with no real signs of stopping. We need a change. We've almost entirely turned over our roster. What's the only remaining variable? The coaching staff. A 4-year extension at this point would be celebrating what? Another below-average season? Blown opportunities? Declining attendance? More excuses? Give me a break. Many folks have said THIS IS THE YEAR!!! Well, we're now 5-7 in the conference.
In conference, we beat:
1. Evansville (x2). They are now 9-16
2. Drake. They are now 16-9
3. Indiana State. They are now 14-9
4. Illinois State. They are now 8-16
What good non-conference wins do we have .. apart from being 5-7 in the conference?
1. Toledo (back on 11/5). They're now 11-13.
2. SIUE? (back on 11/12). They're now 6-19
3. Grand Canyon (back on 11/22). They're now 10-13
4. Trinity Christian (back on 11/27). They're not even D-1...
5. Central Michigan (back on 12/8). They're 13-9 (So, I guess that's a good one...)
6. High Point (back on 12/18). They're 7-17
Excellent research. Most were willing to give him one more year. Well, this was it.
I can't handle any more.
Passing on Tonagel 4 years ago was a huge error.
Quote from: vu72 on February 09, 2020, 08:00:14 PM
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on February 09, 2020, 07:12:38 PM
This program is a joke. No other way to put it. The Lottich-apologists will be the only ones left on the boat when it's all said and done... alongside the eternal optimists ... and us long-time Valpo faithful. But, make no mistake about it - the boat has been taking on water for some time now with no real signs of stopping. We need a change. We've almost entirely turned over our roster. What's the only remaining variable? The coaching staff. A 4-year extension at this point would be celebrating what? Another below-average season? Blown opportunities? Declining attendance? More excuses? Give me a break. Many folks have said THIS IS THE YEAR!!! Well, we're now 5-7 in the conference.
In conference, we beat:
1. Evansville (x2). They are now 9-16
2. Drake. They are now 16-9
3. Indiana State. They are now 14-9
4. Illinois State. They are now 8-16
What good non-conference wins do we have .. apart from being 5-7 in the conference?
1. Toledo (back on 11/5). They're now 11-13.
2. SIUE? (back on 11/12). They're now 6-19
3. Grand Canyon (back on 11/22). They're now 10-13
4. Trinity Christian (back on 11/27). They're not even D-1...
5. Central Michigan (back on 12/8). They're 13-9 (So, I guess that's a good one...)
6. High Point (back on 12/18). They're 7-17
Hey Golden. have another drink.
I guarantee he's not drinking what you are. I know there are extremists on both sides, but the facts are that after 25 games, Valpo has 12 wins with 8 of those against 200+ KenPom teams or non-DIs and only 1 against a KenPom top 100 (Ind St at 98 :dance:).
I'm not close to being aboard the "sky is falling" train, but it's hard to not to be a little disappointed after insiders like you, Oren, wh and the radio guy hyped the team so much.
Quote from: M on February 09, 2020, 05:01:50 PM
Those no calls were as bad as wh's takes on McMillian's play.
In case you forgot, it's a 40 minute game. He was a solid B to B- in the 2nd half (A offensively/C defensively and an F for fouling out so once again he was MIA when we were trying to close the gap. And where would he have been had we forced OT? At the end of the bench done for the day.
He was flat out F in the 1st half (his usual 2 fouls in the 1st 5 minutes followed by 15 minutes wasted on the bench while we struggled to stay in the game). For God sakes, he's a frick'n junior with a ton of game experience, yet he cannot - that's CANNOT - figure out a way to play the game of basketball without getting himself in foul trouble. Most of the time he makes positive contributions offensively, but he may have the lowest basketball I've ever seen at this level. Ask yourself. Would you excuse anyone else for getting into constant foul trouble for huge parts of the game other than Mileek? Would it be ok if Javon did it, or Ryan, or even 1st year player/starter Donovan Clay? Anyone? You're so blind to Mileek's deficiencies I'm starting to wonder if your his dad or mom - same first letter.
Quote from: EddieCabot on February 09, 2020, 08:15:47 PM
Quote from: vu72 on February 09, 2020, 08:00:14 PM
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on February 09, 2020, 07:12:38 PM
This program is a joke. No other way to put it. The Lottich-apologists will be the only ones left on the boat when it's all said and done... alongside the eternal optimists ... and us long-time Valpo faithful. But, make no mistake about it - the boat has been taking on water for some time now with no real signs of stopping. We need a change. We've almost entirely turned over our roster. What's the only remaining variable? The coaching staff. A 4-year extension at this point would be celebrating what? Another below-average season? Blown opportunities? Declining attendance? More excuses? Give me a break. Many folks have said THIS IS THE YEAR!!! Well, we're now 5-7 in the conference.
In conference, we beat:
1. Evansville (x2). They are now 9-16
2. Drake. They are now 16-9
3. Indiana State. They are now 14-9
4. Illinois State. They are now 8-16
What good non-conference wins do we have .. apart from being 5-7 in the conference?
1. Toledo (back on 11/5). They're now 11-13.
2. SIUE? (back on 11/12). They're now 6-19
3. Grand Canyon (back on 11/22). They're now 10-13
4. Trinity Christian (back on 11/27). They're not even D-1...
5. Central Michigan (back on 12/8). They're 13-9 (So, I guess that's a good one...)
6. High Point (back on 12/18). They're 7-17
Hey Golden. have another drink.
I guarantee he's not drinking what you are. I know there are extremists on both sides, but the facts are that after 25 games, Valpo has 12 wins with 8 of those against 200+ KenPom teams or non-DIs and only 1 against a KenPom top 100 (Ind St at 98 :dance:).
I'm not close to being aboard the "sky is falling" train, but it's hard to not to be a little disappointed after insiders like you, Oren, wh and the radio guy hyped the team so much.
I'll have to go back and see if I "hyped" the team. I remember saying that I didn't know if this team would be any better than last year, but that they'd be a lot more fun to watch. I think that has held true.
How can you say this team is fun to watch. Losing and beating crappy teams isn't fun. Having to park half a mile away because I don't give thousands of dollars is a joke. The pcc tournament at hebron high school was a better game day experience....sorry but calling this team fun to watch is absurd
He's one of the main reasons they made the comeback they did. He had one bad foul in the second half. He can't guard Krutwieg by himself and stop all the guards who continually drive to the lane past our guards who seem more concerned with trying for steals then staying in front of their man.
I don't know why you have such an agenda against the kid.
Terrible call, and I wish Lottich would quit acting so passive. If he were not at Valpo, his job would be on the line.
Quote from: Pgmado on February 09, 2020, 09:10:15 PM
Quote from: EddieCabot on February 09, 2020, 08:15:47 PM
Quote from: vu72 on February 09, 2020, 08:00:14 PM
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on February 09, 2020, 07:12:38 PM
This program is a joke. No other way to put it. The Lottich-apologists will be the only ones left on the boat when it's all said and done... alongside the eternal optimists ... and us long-time Valpo faithful. But, make no mistake about it - the boat has been taking on water for some time now with no real signs of stopping. We need a change. We've almost entirely turned over our roster. What's the only remaining variable? The coaching staff. A 4-year extension at this point would be celebrating what? Another below-average season? Blown opportunities? Declining attendance? More excuses? Give me a break. Many folks have said THIS IS THE YEAR!!! Well, we're now 5-7 in the conference.
In conference, we beat:
1. Evansville (x2). They are now 9-16
2. Drake. They are now 16-9
3. Indiana State. They are now 14-9
4. Illinois State. They are now 8-16
What good non-conference wins do we have .. apart from being 5-7 in the conference?
1. Toledo (back on 11/5). They're now 11-13.
2. SIUE? (back on 11/12). They're now 6-19
3. Grand Canyon (back on 11/22). They're now 10-13
4. Trinity Christian (back on 11/27). They're not even D-1...
5. Central Michigan (back on 12/8). They're 13-9 (So, I guess that's a good one...)
6. High Point (back on 12/18). They're 7-17
Hey Golden. have another drink.
I guarantee he's not drinking what you are. I know there are extremists on both sides, but the facts are that after 25 games, Valpo has 12 wins with 8 of those against 200+ KenPom teams or non-DIs and only 1 against a KenPom top 100 (Ind St at 98 :dance:).
I'm not close to being aboard the "sky is falling" train, but it's hard to not to be a little disappointed after insiders like you, Oren, wh and the radio guy hyped the team so much.
I'll have to go back and see if I "hyped" the team. I remember saying that I didn't know if this team would be any better than last year, but that they'd be a lot more fun to watch. I think that has held true.
You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but you are flat out wrong. This program is not a joke. We're a young team, and, yes, we're getting better. We were an eyelash away today against a very good conference opponent on their court. I was at the game in full Valpo gear sitting among a bunch of Loyola diehards, and they were very complimentary about our Crusaders. The game was thoroughly entertaining, and I was proud of our guys. We're headed in the right direction, and next year at this time we're going to be riding high. The best is yet to come.
Opinions and feelings aside, here's the reality ...
In conference, we beat:
1. Evansville (x2). They are now 9-16
2. Drake. They are now 16-9
3. Indiana State. They are now 14-9
4. Illinois State. They are now 8-16
What good non-conference wins do we have .. apart from being 5-7 in the conference?
1. Toledo (back on 11/5). They're now 11-13.
2. SIUE? (back on 11/12). They're now 6-19
3. Grand Canyon (back on 11/22). They're now 10-13
4. Trinity Christian (back on 11/27). They're not even D-1...
5. Central Michigan (back on 12/8). They're 13-9 (So, I guess that's a good one...)
6. High Point (back on 12/18). They're 7-17
Quote from: wh on February 09, 2020, 09:47:51 PMWe're headed in the right direction, and next year at this time we're going to be riding high. The best is yet to come.
You might be right but the clock is ticking. Matt must finish this season on a high note. A healthy roster with promising talents still has to have the leadership necessary to win. Thumbs up or thumbs down should become very clear, very soon! Meanwhile the SIU game needs to be a win and the bigger the better!
Quote from: VALPO LI on February 09, 2020, 07:42:21 AMIs there a bus (buses) leaving Valpo heading to Chicago this year for the students and fans? I believe the University did this last year. I still remember the thorn that Loyola left in my side from last year when they bussed their fans to Valpo.
https://twitter.com/AlBillets/status/1226549401973338112
https://twitter.com/AlBillets/status/1226585925897146368
Quote from: valpopal on February 09, 2020, 05:29:48 PMWatch the video of the final play posted by Paul on Twitter. Pause it at the 8-second mark and the hard shoulder contact against Javon is clear. Then watch Lottich's reaction in the background. He will raise his hands as if in the national sign of surrender, as he did elsewhere in the game and always does, and as usual that's about it. Contrast that with the more aggressive actions of Moser or some other conference coaches. No wonder the officials show Lottich no respect.
https://twitter.com/AlBillets/status/1226713500254457858
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on February 09, 2020, 07:12:38 PM
This program is a joke. No other way to put it. The Lottich-apologists will be the only ones left on the boat when it's all said and done... alongside the eternal optimists ... and us long-time Valpo faithful. But, make no mistake about it - the boat has been taking on water for some time now with no real signs of stopping. We need a change. We've almost entirely turned over our roster. What's the only remaining variable? The coaching staff. A 4-year extension at this point would be celebrating what? Another below-average season? Blown opportunities? Declining attendance? More excuses? Give me a break. Many folks have said THIS IS THE YEAR!!! Well, we're now 5-7 in the conference.
In conference, we beat:
1. Evansville (x2). They are now 9-16
2. Drake. They are now 16-9
3. Indiana State. They are now 14-9
4. Illinois State. They are now 8-16
What good non-conference wins do we have .. apart from being 5-7 in the conference?
1. Toledo (back on 11/5). They're now 11-13.
2. SIUE? (back on 11/12). They're now 6-19
3. Grand Canyon (back on 11/22). They're now 10-13
4. Trinity Christian (back on 11/27). They're not even D-1...
5. Central Michigan (back on 12/8). They're 13-9 (So, I guess that's a good one...)
6. High Point (back on 12/18). They're 7-17
Who in the hell said "this is the year"?
Quote from: wh on February 09, 2020, 09:09:46 PMQuote from: M on February 09, 2020, 05:01:50 PMThose no calls were as bad as wh's takes on McMillian's play.
In case you forgot, it's a 40 minute game. He was a solid B to B- in the 2nd half (A offensively/C defensively and an F for fouling out so once again he was MIA when we were trying to close the gap. And where would he have been had we forced OT? At the end of the bench done for the day. He was flat out F in the 1st half (his usual 2 fouls in the 1st 5 minutes followed by 15 minutes wasted on the bench while we struggled to stay in the game). For God sakes, he's a frick'n junior with a ton of game experience, yet he cannot - that's CANNOT - figure out a way to play the game of basketball without getting himself in foul trouble. Most of the time he makes positive contributions offensively, but he may have the lowest basketball I've ever seen at this level. Ask yourself. Would you excuse anyone else for getting into constant foul trouble for huge parts of the game other than Mileek? Would it be ok if Javon did it, or Ryan, or even 1st year player/starter Donovan Clay? Anyone? You're so blind to Mileek's deficiencies I'm starting to wonder if your his dad or mom - same first letter.
Change a few things and this argument could apply so so well to Lottich... It is amazing to me how you consistently defend one person while scapegoating the other...
No one said, 'this is the year.' We had a crap ton of turnover, and a lot of unknowns, outside of JFL. If we steal 1 or 2 on the road and end up around .500 in conference, I call that a win.
The question that I become increasingly fearful of is this: with our inability to close the deal especially against the top of the conference are we going to be able to avoid massive roster turnover at the end of the year and actually get a chance to build our program? It is simultaneously difficult and easy to see the reasons for hope for the next year or two but so much depends on whether the players can see that hope or whether they will look for greener pastures and on Lottich improving on the sidelines and the players getting better in his system. There's still a lot of ifs for this program going forward and the answers aren't easy and depend on a lot of other factors.
If everyone stays, a team without John and Ryan - replaced by 2 solid freshmen - *should* be a better team
Clay is good. Javon is good. Krikke has the potential. Eron and Nick should be good role players. Would like to see Siggy get more set shots from 3 with Ryan graduated. Do not know enough about Freese yet. Mileek will be a 4 year starter if I'm not mistaken. So he should be a good dependable player. Sackey will be a junior and should have learned his role and know how to cut down on the turnovers. I like the chemistry when Zion, Javon, Clay, and Gordon or Nick are on the court with a solid big.
Idk - we've got the talent. Not sure if or when it'll all come together.
I don't care. Just get results. Don't get results get replaced. That's the world we live in, especially if you are making that kind of money.
Just have to define what results are. My opinion results should not be any lower than what they have been the last 10 years.
We were not perfect yesterday, but outside of one 6 minute stretch I really liked what I saw.
I think we are going to win out at home and steal 1 on the road for a .500 finish. Hell, I am 50% confident we steal 2 on the road. Robinson didn't score yesterday but he had 9 assists, I really like him as the starting PG instead of Sackey. We shot the ball pretty well yesterday. JFL is making a lot of bad decisions right now and forcing some shots trying to get back on track. He won't stay cold forever. I think Lottich screwed up playin EV in the 1st half when Krikke and McMillan only had 3 fouls between them. Shoulda stuck with Krikke longer with 1 foul. Close road games can't have sub par players out there for long stretches. I think the refs did play a small role but that is normal on the road. We had a few questionable calls go our way but just like any road game, most of the close calls or no calls went to the home team. Can't really complain about it, that is just the way it is. Our mental mistakes down the stretch played a much larger role in this loss.
Loyola is a terrible matchup for us because Krut is just so much better than anybody we can throw at him. By doubling and tripling him they did get a lot of open 3 point looks and although they are not a great 3 point shooting team, they had enough open ones they were going to hit a decent percentage.
Quote from: Valpower on February 10, 2020, 12:46:05 AM
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on February 09, 2020, 07:12:38 PM
This program is a joke. No other way to put it. The Lottich-apologists will be the only ones left on the boat when it's all said and done... alongside the eternal optimists ... and us long-time Valpo faithful. But, make no mistake about it - the boat has been taking on water for some time now with no real signs of stopping. We need a change. We've almost entirely turned over our roster. What's the only remaining variable? The coaching staff. A 4-year extension at this point would be celebrating what? Another below-average season? Blown opportunities? Declining attendance? More excuses? Give me a break. Many folks have said THIS IS THE YEAR!!! Well, we're now 5-7 in the conference.
In conference, we beat:
1. Evansville (x2). They are now 9-16
2. Drake. They are now 16-9
3. Indiana State. They are now 14-9
4. Illinois State. They are now 8-16
What good non-conference wins do we have .. apart from being 5-7 in the conference?
1. Toledo (back on 11/5). They're now 11-13.
2. SIUE? (back on 11/12). They're now 6-19
3. Grand Canyon (back on 11/22). They're now 10-13
4. Trinity Christian (back on 11/27). They're not even D-1...
5. Central Michigan (back on 12/8). They're 13-9 (So, I guess that's a good one...)
6. High Point (back on 12/18). They're 7-17
Who in the hell said "this is the year"?
Probably the same person who said, "finally we are at full strength."
I love everybody's passion on here, and will never bemoan fans for showing their displeasure when a team hasn't met their expectations. However, the one thing I disagree with is the complaints about Matt's sideline behavior. I understand he doesn't act like a ranting maniac like Musselman, and that's a good thing, but he does work the officials, and does it in an almost identical way that Bryce Drew always did. I don't think with :05 to go when Javon gets run over and there's a no call, that veteran officials like Terry Wymer and Roger Ayers are swallowing their whistle because they don't think Matt has been riding them enough, and I also don't think it's a factor in our record this year. I think now that Nick and Ryan are both finally healthy, and yesterday's game was a step forward. Here's hoping you'll all see a nice late season run.
Quote from: chef on February 10, 2020, 09:52:33 AM
I love everybody's passion on here, and will never bemoan fans for showing their displeasure when a team hasn't met their expectations. However, the one thing I disagree with is the complaints about Matt's sideline behavior. I understand he doesn't act like a ranting maniac like Musselman, and that's a good thing, but he does work the officials, and does it in an almost identical way that Bryce Drew always did. I don't think with :05 to go when Javon gets run over and there's a no call, that veteran officials like Terry Wymer and Roger Ayers are swallowing their whistle because they don't think Matt has been riding them enough, and I also don't think it's a factor in our record this year. I think now that Nick and Ryan are both finally healthy, and yesterday's game was a step forward. Here's hoping you'll all see a nice late season run.
I respect your view, and I might agree if this were an isolated incident. However, Lottich has displayed a pattern in the past, including other games this season, of not forcefully supporting his players with officials after obvious fouls. Look at when Gordon got clocked in the head, was lying on the court, and no foul was called in a previous game. I watched: Lottich didn't even complain to the officials. This has to be disheartening to players. Bryce was much more forceful and at times deliberately baited the officials to get a technical. Here is a description of one situation I easily found: "Drew tossed his jacket into the bench, incessantly yelled into the referee's ear and once chased the official up the sideline while shouting and pumping his fist over a disputed no-call." Here is another: "Drew's jacket came off; his jacket went back on. The game got physical, and so did Drew's body language. 'They foul all the time!' he pleaded with a ref. When there was no foul after Valparaiso's point guard drew contact on a fairly out-of-control drive to the rim, Drew went nuts. 'This is terrible!' he shouted six times, before refs finally called him for a technical." I remember other games where Bryce purposely drew technical fouls. Lottich's repeated postgame comment that the officials are just doing their job is also weak. As for impacting the record. If the calls were made in this game, Valpo might have won, and that can be said about at least one other game. That would mean a top half standing in the conference and avoidance of a Thursday tournament game.
Concur with much of Chef's poignant insight. Let me add a couple other points:
1. 0-7 vs Loyola; 0-7 vs Butler when we entered the respective conferences.
2. With about 3 minutes left, we had 3 empty possessions with a chance to cut the lead to 1 possession. We eventually broke through that barrier and gave ourselves a shot. That was a huge milestone for this team versus top competition. We couldn't break that barrier versus UNI the other night. The D in this game kept giving the O chances, and there was finally some conversion.
3. Congrats to Mileek on his 2d half. The frustrating part for many of us with Mileek, and I said it to Mrs84 during the game, he looks like a basketball player. 6'8" 250 power forward who started his HS career as a guard. He still has not had the switch go off to be a power forward. His footwork and positioning on D still has not met what he should be doing. Krikke on O and D is way ahead of him and looks more natural (BTW, he had to come out in 1st half and V come in because he needed a blow). Mileek's release was much better in 2d half. He reminds me of Tristan Thompson, who can be likewise frustrating on O and D. Actually, Mileek might want to watch video of Darryl Thomas (in the game below) and his game around the basket (yes he would disappear for long periods too).
4. In that game, with every point critical, did we really want Matt to get a T and give up 2 points and the ball? Bryce could afford the very rare T because our talent level was above the competition, and we could make those points up more easily. And, maybe Chef can help, but how many total Ts did Bryce have in his Valpo coaching career? How many in first few years? By the way, at one point early 2d half, I said to Mrs84 that Matt needed to break that whiteboard on the scorer's table (maybe seeing Knight at Assembly Hall Saturday reminded me of something like that -- LSU v IU 1987 phone slam, about 13 minutes into the tape on youtube).
5. There seems to be a predisposition of some members of this board against Matt and to be fired since last year. Every mistake is now magnified to prove whatever their points are. I get it. And now with Bryce allegedly available, there is a "simple solution" available. But, Bryce is not coming through that ARC entrance. Why would he? In fact, Chris Collins should be looking over his shoulder at NU for Bryce. (BTW would love for the Nance kid to transfer to VU). It also does nothing positive for Matt or this program's recruiting. The talk of it is nonsense. And, quite frankly (and I love the Drews immensely), the program must move forward. I do agree that there are lots of program graduates that could be potential hires going forward -- Nuness, Buggs, Diebler, Powell (seeking higher calling), Tonagel and Peters in the future -- and might be better coaches, but we still need to see what Matt does this year, and next. Although any major transfers and I reserve the right to join those calling for his firing.
6. Good question on Zion -- Chef any information?
Quote from: Pgmado on February 09, 2020, 09:10:15 PM
Quote from: EddieCabot on February 09, 2020, 08:15:47 PM
Quote from: vu72 on February 09, 2020, 08:00:14 PM
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on February 09, 2020, 07:12:38 PM
This program is a joke. No other way to put it. The Lottich-apologists will be the only ones left on the boat when it's all said and done... alongside the eternal optimists ... and us long-time Valpo faithful. But, make no mistake about it - the boat has been taking on water for some time now with no real signs of stopping. We need a change. We've almost entirely turned over our roster. What's the only remaining variable? The coaching staff. A 4-year extension at this point would be celebrating what? Another below-average season? Blown opportunities? Declining attendance? More excuses? Give me a break. Many folks have said THIS IS THE YEAR!!! Well, we're now 5-7 in the conference.
In conference, we beat:
1. Evansville (x2). They are now 9-16
2. Drake. They are now 16-9
3. Indiana State. They are now 14-9
4. Illinois State. They are now 8-16
What good non-conference wins do we have .. apart from being 5-7 in the conference?
1. Toledo (back on 11/5). They're now 11-13.
2. SIUE? (back on 11/12). They're now 6-19
3. Grand Canyon (back on 11/22). They're now 10-13
4. Trinity Christian (back on 11/27). They're not even D-1...
5. Central Michigan (back on 12/8). They're 13-9 (So, I guess that's a good one...)
6. High Point (back on 12/18). They're 7-17
Hey Golden. have another drink.
I guarantee he's not drinking what you are. I know there are extremists on both sides, but the facts are that after 25 games, Valpo has 12 wins with 8 of those against 200+ KenPom teams or non-DIs and only 1 against a KenPom top 100 (Ind St at 98 :dance:).
I'm not close to being aboard the "sky is falling" train, but it's hard to not to be a little disappointed after insiders like you, Oren, wh and the radio guy hyped the team so much.
I'll have to go back and see if I "hyped" the team. I remember saying that I didn't know if this team would be any better than last year, but that they'd be a lot more fun to watch. I think that has held true.
I revisited your pre-season over/under picks and you were very balanced in your selections. Please accept my apologies!
Homer had such a good reputation he had to WORK to get a tech when he felt it was needed. I remember he was 10 feet out onto the court in Oakland years ago while the ball was in play and they wouldn't call it. He shrugged and stormed out to half court when the ball went out of bounds. Finally they called it.
The berating of officials is overrated. Ben Jacobson is clearly the best coach in the league and far and away the most successful. He doesn't berate officials. Jay Wright doesn't berate officials, and neither does Tony Bennett. I'd take those two over any coach in the country on teams that exceed their talent level year in year out. Bryce picked up about 1 technical a year. I understand the point about standing up for your players, and I think Matt does that more than he's given credit for. As for the post game, nothing good comes from ripping the refs in the press conference. In fact, only bad things come from it. I think Zion's minutes were lost yesterday because Nick was playing so well in the backcourt.
Quote from: EddieCabot on February 09, 2020, 08:15:47 PM
Quote from: vu72 on February 09, 2020, 08:00:14 PM
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on February 09, 2020, 07:12:38 PM
This program is a joke. No other way to put it. The Lottich-apologists will be the only ones left on the boat when it's all said and done... alongside the eternal optimists ... and us long-time Valpo faithful. But, make no mistake about it - the boat has been taking on water for some time now with no real signs of stopping. We need a change. We've almost entirely turned over our roster. What's the only remaining variable? The coaching staff. A 4-year extension at this point would be celebrating what? Another below-average season? Blown opportunities? Declining attendance? More excuses? Give me a break. Many folks have said THIS IS THE YEAR!!! Well, we're now 5-7 in the conference.
In conference, we beat:
1. Evansville (x2). They are now 9-16
2. Drake. They are now 16-9
3. Indiana State. They are now 14-9
4. Illinois State. They are now 8-16
What good non-conference wins do we have .. apart from being 5-7 in the conference?
1. Toledo (back on 11/5). They're now 11-13.
2. SIUE? (back on 11/12). They're now 6-19
3. Grand Canyon (back on 11/22). They're now 10-13
4. Trinity Christian (back on 11/27). They're not even D-1...
5. Central Michigan (back on 12/8). They're 13-9 (So, I guess that's a good one...)
6. High Point (back on 12/18). They're 7-17
Hey Golden. have another drink.
I guarantee he's not drinking what you are. I know there are extremists on both sides, but the facts are that after 25 games, Valpo has 12 wins with 8 of those against 200+ KenPom teams or non-DIs and only 1 against a KenPom top 100 (Ind St at 98 :dance:).
I'm not close to being aboard the "sky is falling" train, but it's hard to not to be a little disappointed after insiders like you, Oren, wh and the radio guy hyped the team so much.
Yes, and I will continue to hype the team. Sometime back I said we're running a 2-year marathon. The finish line is the end of next season. What I observed yesterday is a young team that took a top-3 MVC team to the wire at their place. That would not have happened even a few games ago. We're getting there. For those who insist on bursting a blood vessel because they're tired of near misses, have at it.
Here's some food for thought that might bring the temperature in the room down a little. Loyola's best conference record in its first 4 years in the MVC was 8-10. Their worst was 4-14. They finished 10th, 6th, 8th and 5th, before a 15-3 1st place finish in their 5th year. This was all under the great Porter Moser. I wonder if Loyola fans were calling for his head every time they lost a game in those first 4 years? Were they constantly slamming his coaching ability? Were they claiming he was out coached every time they lost a game? Were they saying he was yelling at the refs too much and alienating them - that he needed to tone it down? Was his offense stagnant and lacked creativity? Were his players playing out of position and his substitution patterns sucked? How many times had he "lost the team" in those days? Were they asking why he still couldn't win after the university spent millions of dollars on Gentile Center renovations?
Quote from: chef on February 10, 2020, 02:01:10 PM
The berating of officials is overrated. Ben Jacobson is clearly the best coach in the league and far and away the most successful. He doesn't berate officials. Jay Wright doesn't berate officials, and neither does Tony Bennett. I'd take those two over any coach in the country on teams that exceed their talent level year in year out. Bryce picked up about 1 technical a year. I understand the point about standing up for your players, and I think Matt does that more than he's given credit for. As for the post game, nothing good comes from ripping the refs in the press conference. In fact, only bad things come from it. I think Zion's minutes were lost yesterday because Nick was playing so well in the backcourt.
I don't think anyone has asked for "berating" of officials, nor is anyone asking for many technical fouls. That is introducing red herrings into the discussion. Instead, it would be refreshing to see more forceful challenging of bad calls or non-calls and a selective technical at least once or twice during a season, as you acknowledge Bryce did. Something more than simply raising one's hands in exasperation. Likewise, nobody is requesting that Lottich "rip" into refs in the postgame. However, when Javon acknowledged there was contact in the postgame conference, Matt could have simply backed his player by saying that's the way he saw it as well, rather than merely repeating his excuse that the refs are just doing their job.
wh--yes, they were asking if Porter should be fired prior to the improvements in years 4 and 5 in the MVC. History is a terrible thing to waste.
Porter was fired from Illinois State after 4 miserable years and a cumulative record of 51-67 and 2 10th place finishes in the MVC.
He was 22-39 his first 2 years, which were in the HL with a 10th and 7th place finish before the move.
He was 57-66 in the first 4 years of Loyola in the MVC and 89-105 in his first 6 years at Loyola. His cumulative MVC record even with 3 really good years is 67-82.
WH - Loyola's best conference record in its first 4 years in the MVC was 8-10. Their worst was 4-14. They finished 10th, 6th, 8th and 5th, before a 15-3 1st place finish in their 5th year. This was all under the great Porter Moser.
Loyola was coming over from the HL with those same results.
Valpo coming over from the HL with 1st place, 1st place, 1st place. I think there a couple more 1st places....
Quote from: wh on February 10, 2020, 02:18:08 PM
Quote from: EddieCabot on February 09, 2020, 08:15:47 PM
I'm not close to being aboard the "sky is falling" train, but it's hard to not to be a little disappointed after insiders like you, Oren, wh and the radio guy hyped the team so much.
Yes, and I will continue to hype the team. Sometime back I said we're running a 2-year marathon. The finish line is the end of next season. What I observed yesterday is a young team that took a top-3 MVC team to the wire at their place. That would not have happened even a few games ago. We're getting there. For those who insist on bursting a blood vessel because they're tired of near misses, have at it.
Here's some food for thought that might bring the temperature in the room down a little. Loyola's best conference record in its first 4 years in the MVC was 8-10. Their worst was 4-14. They finished 10th, 6th, 8th and 5th, before a 15-3 1st place finish in their 5th year. This was all under the great Porter Moser. I wonder if Loyola fans were calling for his head every time they lost a game in those first 4 years? Were they constantly slamming his coaching ability? Were they claiming he was out coached every time they lost a game? Were they saying he was yelling at the refs too much and alienating them - that he needed to tone it down? Was his offense stagnant and lacked creativity? Were his players playing out of position and his substitution patterns sucked? How many times had he "lost the team" in those days? Were they asking why he still couldn't win after the university spent millions of dollars on Gentile Center renovations?
I'm AOK with that. Like I said, there's reason for concern, but no need to jump off the ledge. My only point of contention might be that the "huge step up in conference" excuse might be a bit overstated. IMO, Valpo had several teams in the HL (2013,2016) that would have been at the top of this year's MVC. I realize Valpo won't dominate the MVC like it did the MidCon or Horizon, but I'd like to see them back to being "as good" as those teams were in metrics like KenPom.
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 10, 2020, 04:02:14 PM
WH - Loyola's best conference record in its first 4 years in the MVC was 8-10. Their worst was 4-14. They finished 10th, 6th, 8th and 5th, before a 15-3 1st place finish in their 5th year. This was all under the great Porter Moser.
Loyola was coming over from the HL with those same results.
Valpo coming over from the HL with 1st place, 1st place, 1st place. I think there a couple more 1st places....
Ben Jacobson, the man many seem to think is the best coach in the MVC, is also going on a 4 year cycle. "16-17" 14-16, "17-18" 16-16, "18-19" 16-18 and was coaching with what should be MVC caliber players and knowing the conference teams like the back of his hand. In our first two years in the conference NIU at 16-20 was 3 games better than VU at 13-23 with advantages we didn't have. Ben is having a great year but I guess he was human the 3 previous.