http://valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/news/2019-20/19721/mens-basketball-seeks-to-extend-winning-streak-on-wednesday/ (http://valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/news/2019-20/19721/mens-basketball-seeks-to-extend-winning-streak-on-wednesday/)
Will 3 be a charm as we seek 3 in a row and our 3rd conference road win with 3 regular-season games to follow?
Of our 4 remaining games, I would say this one has our highest chance for victory.
MoST has been on the upswing, Bradley has been playing great as of late and Indiana State is really tough at home. All of those are winnable, but I feel best about our chances against Drake.
Plus with Drake still having to play both UNI and Loyola still, a win tomorrow would give us a really good chance of keeping us above them in the final standings.
Quote from: Valpower on February 18, 2020, 07:47:50 AM
http://valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/news/2019-20/19721/mens-basketball-seeks-to-extend-winning-streak-on-wednesday/ (http://valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/news/2019-20/19721/mens-basketball-seeks-to-extend-winning-streak-on-wednesday/)
Will 3 be a charm as we seek 3 in a row and our 3rd conference road win with 3 regular-season games to follow?
Yes. Valpo will win on a three pointer by JFL (distinguished by his three initials).
I will be there to see JFL pop the trifecta and I will take him out to Jethro's BBQ after the game!
https://jethrosdesmoines.com
Quote from: usc4valpo on February 18, 2020, 10:08:45 AM
I will be there to see JFL pop the trifecta and I will take him out to Jethro's BBQ after the game!
https://jethrosdesmoines.com
Thats fine but there might be Drake fans in the kitchen so we insist you guinea pig test his food so that he comes to no harm! We don't care if you get the runs but JFL will be needed on Sat (Bradley) and Tuesday (MSU) and Sat (ISUb) again! ;)
It would be nice if we don't get a bunch of "fire Lottich" posts after this game
Such over reactions on here it's really hard to enjoy this as a distraction from accounting work all day
The guy has done as good a job as you can expect following the Drew's
Players seem to like him and we don't see many off court issues with his team
Unfortunately we as fans think that Valpo should be contending for titles year after year
Those days are over. This league is tough. No easy games. We need to be thankful to be in the middle of the pack and consider a third place finish as a huge year
As could be expected of a team with key freshmen and sophomores and transfers, this team has been consistently inconsistent. If they're consistently inconsistent against Drake, then that game will include some great play, and some terrible stretches. It seems that the deciding factor as to whether Valpo wins is whether Valpo scores more when it is playing well than Drake scores when Valpo is playing terribly. Ideally, the players buy in to the concept that inconsistent bad play can be ironed out by great defense for the full 40 minutes. If Valpo plays solid defense for the full game, but is still inconsistent on offense, then they should win.
Valpo 68
Drake 65
First team to 70 wins
Quote from: FWalum on February 15, 2020, 01:45:55 PMYes, JFL has great anticipation, is quick and long, but he is not a great on ball defender and because of his natural tendency to anticipate the defenders reaction, often is not "in front" of his man to prevent the slash or drive to the basket.
I take this all back after rewatching the second half of the last game. Now just put together 2 halves against Drake!!
JFL would have had 100 steals a year if Vashil was playing behind him. Can you imagine the chances he could take with a legit rim protector in the paint?
VU 73 Drake 68 The playoffs begin!! get to the Basket !
So inconsistent... Drake is the better team right now... We are in danger of digging another hole... This team makes me want to scream sometimes... The opportunities have been there we need to take advantage of them... We need this game...
Great start offensively, now our patented drought.
I turn the game on and immediately watch Sackey turn it over....
Live by the 3, die by the 3.
Siiiiiiigh EVERY SINGLE GAME
It takes a 16-2 run to call a timeout.
Two more unanswered two pointers and we'll have them right where we want them.
So it was a two and a three. For an 18 point lead. I guess we want to outdo our last game comeback.
Do we have to do something like this every game?
STOP SHOOTING THREES
STOP SHOOTING THREES
STOP SHOOTING THREES
STOP SHOOTING THREES
STOP SHOOTING THREES
STOP SHOOTING THREES
STOP SHOOTING THREES
STOP SHOOTING THREES
Lottich is a dumb MF, take the timeout a possession earlier, how does he have a Stanford education, moronic to put it lightly...
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Motion offense working really great here tonight
Lottich really drew up a good game plan tonight.
Save us Javon You're our only hope... Again... Do your shoulders hurt from carrying this team constantly?
Not on Lottich at this point. Our guys can't shoot worth a crap right now. Getting good looks, and missing wildly. McMillan started well, and had a miserable 3-4 minute stretch, which is why he was pulled.
I need a hug.
We had soooooo much fun digging ourselves out of a 17 point hole last time out, we've decided to do it again.
Here's to the second half comeback of a season ... I mean for the second time in 2 straight games lol.
This team .... all the potential but .... idk.
At least the halftime speech can be, "Hey guys - we've been here before."
Interesting Matt didn't call a timeout during that stretch until under a minute and had 3 TOS he couldn't take with him to half. Too many rushed 3s ... no second chance points. Seems like there were some Moments there where hitting the pause button couldn't have hurt ...
JFL gone in ... 3 months.
The good news is that shooting tends to even out but Jesus Christ can we please not fall behind by 87000 points in the last five minutes of a half? Here's hoping we have more magic in our hats. We're going to need it.
LOL MLB and ML have no clue...you want Valpo to be +500 to finish the league next season, fire Lottich and MLB, Valpo is too complacent...they're only concerned about academics, how stupid...the Valpo leadership lives in 60's...
Once again Sackey is a turnover machine and really hurts our offense...AND he can't play defense. It is amazing how our three point shooting started our 3 for 6 then nothing. It makes such a difference when JFL is in the game both offensively and defensively.
Stop blaming this on Lottich. We have no shooters on this team except Fazekas and he can't hit anything tonight. Everyone else has had WIDE OPEN looks. They have a legit rim protector and not one player can hit an open look.
So much for not going down double digits in the first half. Our shooting and defense both need to improve in the second half. This team has shown they can make the comeback - no better time than now!
Quote from: VUSL98 on February 19, 2020, 07:57:01 PMJFL gone in ... 3 months.
I really hope you're wrong but it's so hard to see him wanting to stick around with the way this team craters without him... And how terrible we are at so many stretches throughout the year... He's a winner and as such he is not the type that will tolerate extended losing and general lack of improvement. He will go somewhere where his talents can be maximized and get results and fully appreciated and actualized.... And honestly who could blame him if he does choose another place to play?
Why not put Emil in at this point?
Sackey is a turnover machine and really hurts our offense, plus he cant shoot and is a big liability on defense. What a disappointment he has been this entire year. He has really regressed this season.
Quote from: FWalum on February 19, 2020, 07:58:45 PM
Stop blaming this on Lottich. We have no shooters on this team except Fazekas and he can't hit anything tonight. Everyone else has had WIDE OPEN looks. They have a legit rim protector and not one player can hit an open look.
Thank you. I wanted to say something to this effect but didn't want to get thrown to the dogs. Just like the Missouri State game, they were getting wide open looks and just could not buy a basket. We have Nick Robinson out here 0-5 on wide open threes. We missed out last 10 three point attempts, 8 of which were good shots, and the other two being forced but still coming from our best three point shooter, Ryan.
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on February 19, 2020, 07:56:24 PMInteresting Matt didn't call a timeout during that stretch until under a minute and had 3 TOS he couldn't take with him to half. Too many rushed 3s ... no second chance points. Seems like there were some Moments there where hitting the pause button couldn't have hurt ...
Probably couldn't hurt. Remember that Bryce would have burned all of his TO's and we would have been complaining about that.
We got em' right where we want them.
Remember last year when the excuses were on the lack of team chemistry and too many "Is" ...??
What's the excuse now? Too many underclassmen and first year transfers?
Well when you lose that many guys to transfer who were allegedly selfish and so forth - what do you expect to happen?
Somebody had to replace them lol. Sooo now we'll say we suck at shooting and need more time to develop blah blah blah.
Only for another mediocre season at best ... which some of us have now accepted as the new standard.
Losing is one thing - now we dig these holes is an entirely other issue. We were able to dig out of it last time - let's see if Clay and JFL can get back in, stay out of foul trouble, and carry us to another comeback win - hope they do
But that doesn't make up for the red flags ...
It's not on Lottich unless you want to blame him for recruiting a bunch of guys who can't shoot yet refuse to attack the basket... Nevertheless it's SO FRUSTRATING to watch this team fall behind again and again and pray for a miracle...
I also didn't think our defense played poorly the second half of the half. I thought our defense was playing worse when we were winning and giving up all the points to Robbins. Since then they were forcing them to use all the shot clock and then they were just hitting their shots at the end of the shot clock after a good defensive possession. They had to have 3 or 4 makes with 3 or less seconds on the shot clock. The big problem to me was rebounding.
Okay step by step... Possession by possession... All the way back...
Ickow out here blaming the refs is the saddest aspect of this... We SUCK tonight and there is no excuse or apology for it... Stop protecting them and call it for what it is...
Quote from: VUSL98 on February 19, 2020, 07:57:01 PM
JFL gone in ... 3 months.
Not sure why anyone would "like" that quote
My reaction would be :'(
......please do not reply back saying because it is probably true.
Nothing irks me more than when our players go past someone, and then seem to believe that the defender just magically gives up on the play. They then throw a lazy pass or slow it up too much, and we have a turnover.
Quote from: VALPO LI on February 19, 2020, 08:14:31 PMQuote from: VUSL98 on February 19, 2020, 07:57:01 PMJFL gone in ... 3 months.
Not sure why anyone would "like" that quote My reaction would be :'( ......please do not reply back saying because it is probably true.
Lottich is going to have to recruit the crap out of Javon to get him to stay this offseason... He's got to be in full "Gimme a Reason to Stay here" mode...
CONGRATULATIONS JAVON!!!! ALL TIME SINGLE SEASON STEALS LEADER!!!
Three point shooting evening out... Eleven points back... We're getting there! Come on Valpo! I BELIEVE!
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 19, 2020, 08:18:01 PM
Quote from: VALPO LI on February 19, 2020, 08:14:31 PMQuote from: VUSL98 on February 19, 2020, 07:57:01 PMJFL gone in ... 3 months.
Not sure why anyone would "like" that quote My reaction would be :'( ......please do not reply back saying because it is probably true.
Lottich is going to have to recruit the crap out of Javon to get him to stay this offseason... He's got to be in full "Gimme a Reason to Stay here" mode...
He will not leave to sit out a year at this point. He would either graduate early, or would leave if NCAA rules are changed to allow 1 free transfer without having to sit out.
The next time Robinson shoots a three will be too soon...
YES JAVON!!! GO VALPO!!! I BELIEVE!!!
We should have expected this... An equally desperate team with a tougher (in terms of record) remaining schedule and home court advantage... It's not effort it's shooting... We can't shoot we can't score and we bury ourselves.... Hope that changes next year and some of the new guys coming in can shoot the ball a little... Come on Valpo! We can still make a game of this! Let's go! Keep fighting!
Just want Lottich to trust his players in the first half to not pick up three fouls instead of watching the game slip away. Can't win the game in the first half but can definitely lose it. At about 12 point deficit you have to get Javon and/or Clay back in there. Even for three minutes to stem the tide hopefully then sit them back down.
I can't get excited when we close the gap because when it feels like maybe we have a chance to get back in it I know the other team will come right back down and score.
The difference is that Drake is shooting much better than Illinois State did... Making the comeback difficult... Come on Valpo! We can do this!
SINGLE DIGITS! GO JAVON! GO CLAY! GO MILEEK! GO VALPO! I BELIEVE!!! LET'S GOOOOOOO!!!
MILEEK! GO VALPO! I BELIEVE!
Okay Shake that off Ryan Plenty of time Go Valpo! I BELIEVE!
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 19, 2020, 08:43:54 PMOkay Shake that off Ryan Plenty of time Go Valpo! I BELIEVE!
THAT'S IT RYAN!!! GREAT STUFF EVERYONE!!! KEEP IT GOING VALPO!!!! I BELIEVE!!!
Fazekas making up for his crappy layup!
Good job Javon! Now get us a stop! GO VALPO! I BELIEVE!
MILEEK! I LOVE THIS! GO VALPO! I BELIEVE!
We're okay... We can do this! One possession game and the ball! Go Valpo! I BELIEVE!!!
How many times can we try and test their 7 footer at the rim, and get nothing? He purposely lets you get around him, so he can block you from behind.
Here we go Valpo! One shot for the tie or the win! We can do this! GO VALPO! I BELIEVE!
If we win this one, I'd like to see if we can come back from 19 down next game...you know, just for yucks.
F yes! I like our chances in OT!
DONOVAN CLAY! WE GO TO OT!!! GREAT EFFORT DOWN THE STRETCH YOUNG MAN! GO VALPO! I BELIEVE! WE CAN DO THIS!
YES RYAN! NOW D UP! GO VALPO! I BELIEVE!
Robinson has played like absolute crap today
We're okay Still one possession Go Valpo! I BELIEVE! Good timeout by Lottich here
Todd... STOP WHINING ABOUT THE OFFICIALS! PLEASE!
I didn't want to call Robinson a net negative today but well Yeah he kinda has been
They have shot almost 30 more free throws.
Also, every single 50-50 call has been going Drake's way, and even their announcers keep pointing it out.
Good job Ryan! Now get a stop Valpo! We can do this! GO VALPO! I BELIVE!
Come on Donovan! Knock them down! Go Valpo! I BELIEVE!
Go up strong....holy crap...
It's okay... We can do this... Krikke needed to take that up stronger... But we can tie or win! Go Valpo! I BELIEVE!!!
Robinson cost us this game, and Krikke needs to man up
DUNK THE BALL!!!!
Krikke needs to dunk that.
Even after the phantom fifth fouls on JFL and Mileek we had our chances. Krikke needs to dunk the damn ball in that spot.
Great comeback again that came up short. When will we ever stop digging these huge holes?
Once again, our inability to make adjustments during a scoring drought costs us a game. I know some of you want to blame the players, but they don't draw up the plays when the motion isn't working.
Come to think of it, no one draws them up...
We should have won that one, in spite of the crappy final 10 minutes of the first half. At a minimum, it should have gone to double OT, if Krikke would have gone up like a man. I don't know what Robinson was doing all game on offense.
The holes... The poor shooting early.... The shorthandedness due to foul outs... Just too much to overcome... This one is heartbreaking especially with Missouri State in a battle and possibly pulling off the road win at Carver... We just started too late and didn't execute down the stretch... We're still okay as far as avoiding Thursday goes but a lot of our margin for error is now gone. It now comes down to holding serve at home and winning in Terre Haute. Go Valpo! I BELIEVE!
JFL Mileek and Clay deserved better than this outcome... I'm heartbroken for them...
Free Throw attempts.
34-9.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 19, 2020, 09:22:46 PMFree Throw attempts. 34-9.
Good point. We didn't drive to the basket nearly enough.
Winnable game.
Didn't win.
Story of the season.
Credit to their 7 footer playing good defense. Driving the lane led to a block or incredibly tough shot 90% of the time. Although more aggressiveness May have reduced it slightly he was definitely protecting the rim. Robinson looks in slow motion and far too often the offense is flowing he catches the ball makes a jab step and reversed the course which I feel completely stops any ball movement that was generated.
This loss is 1000% not on Lottich but it's a very frustrating and difficult loss that increases our chances of a third straight trip to Thursday. The fight that they show show that they respect him and want to play for him . I'm still on the pro extension side of things for Lottich because I think better results are coming if not this year but that is contingent on us not having a rash of critical transfers in the offseason.
I am sorry I did not want to have to bring this up on here and I did not think I would be using this excuse after building a 19 point deficit, but I think the leading cause of that loss was officiating. I know, it sounds like a terrible, whiny excuse, but frankly I don't care. As much as you will say "oh we built ourselves a 19 point deficit we have nobody to blame but ourselves" you could say the same thing about Drake blowing a 19 point deficit. And they blew it while receiving EVERY SINGLE 50/50 call that was to be had, to the point where the Drake announcers were questioning how the was possibly a foul called. They even said McMillan's 5th foul was exactly how the coaches teach defense. We go to overtime with a 34-5 free throw deficit (which yes I know a lot of that was Robbins being fouled on the inside). But really? We only did enough on offense to draw five free throws worth of fouls? I don't think so. As for Freeman's foul, it was all ball. Not a speck of arm was touched on that. Oh and lets talk about the chance to take the lead halfway through overtime. The ball is clearly knocked off of Drake's hand right in front of the ref. Literally 2 feet away he knocks the ball right off his hand out of bounds. Drake ball. Absolutely atrocious officiating that JUST HAPPENED to take out our 2 top scorers before/early in overtime. There is no doubt in my mind we win that game with Freeman and McMillan playing, and there is no doubt in my mind they should have been. I have already addressed the deficit. I do not necessarily think the first half was anybody's fault. We just weren't hitting our shots and they have a fantastic rim protector inside, taking away that option to drive and get inside shots at a decent pace. We stuck to our guns, and viola, the shooting evened out and we got ourselves back into the game.
Quote from: vok22 on February 19, 2020, 09:32:44 PMI am sorry I did not want to have to bring this up on here and I did not think I would be using this excuse after building a 19 point deficit, but I think the leading cause of that loss was officiating. I know, it sounds like a terrible, whiny excuse, but frankly I don't care. As much as you will say "oh we built ourselves a 19 point deficit we have nobody to blame but ourselves" you could say the same thing about Drake blowing a 19 point deficit. And they blew it while receiving EVERY SINGLE 50/50 call that was to be had, to the point where the Drake announcers were questioning how the was possibly a foul called. They even said McMillan's 5th foul was exactly how the coaches teach defense. We go to overtime with a 34-5 free throw deficit (which yes I know a lot of that was Robbins being fouled on the inside). But really? We only did enough on offense to draw five free throws worth of fouls? I don't think so. As for Freeman's foul, it was all ball. Not a speck of arm was touched on that. Oh and lets talk about the chance to take the lead halfway through overtime. The ball is clearly knocked off of Drake's hand right in front of the ref. Literally 2 feet away he knocks the ball right off his hand out of bounds. Drake ball. Absolutely atrocious officiating that JUST HAPPENED to take out our 2 top scorers before/early in overtime. There is no doubt in my mind we win that game with Freeman and McMillan playing, and there is no doubt in my mind they should have been. I have already addressed the deficit. I do not necessarily think the first half was anybody's fault. We just weren't hitting our shots and they have a fantastic rim protector inside, taking away that option to drive and get inside shots at a decent pace. We stuck to our guns, and viola, the shooting evened out and we got ourselves back into the game.
Or... Call one successful play during the scoring drought in the first half and win in regulation.
Never blame the refs (absent concrete proof of bribes). Control what you can and overcome what you can't.
Refs were bad. No doubt.
But a team set up to play on three straight Thursday night games in St Lou needs to earn some calls. We haven't. Refs didn't cause us to not score for 7 minutes.
An incredible comeback. Impressive fight without the guys who were largely responsible for the comeback. I don't blame anyone, each team has "would of, could of" plays at the end of the day. Taking a step back, Valpo has shown us over the last 4 games that they are highly competitive in the MVC. Single possession games are games of inches, you win some and lose some. If all you wanted to do was win, Valpo should've stayed in the Horizon or better yet, the MidCon/Summit. The reality is, we're here...and though there seem to be embarrassing portions of every game (which is obviously infuriating) there are highly impressive portions that are making these games close. This is apparently a team of momentum, when they're good, they're really good...and the opposite. At the end of 40 minutes it seems to average out.
I know and agree that they need to stop digging holes, every person in the organization, coaches and players included agree with you too. Losing sucks. Losing after an amazing comeback sucks. Losing such a big game in the standings sucks. We are, however, still playing meaningful games down the stretch...none of which I believe are automatic L's. I personally am noticing progress.
The official excuse is weak I'm sorry. We make a couple more free throws We make a couple of the layups we missed A couple of those around and out shots go in Krikke actually dunks the ball instead of laying it up and Sackey and Robinson aren't absolutely terrible for pretty much every minute their were out there and we're talking at least about a double OT game if not a victory. It's almost never an officials call or calls that decide a game. It's coaching (not in this game but in other games) it's effort It's execution. If we had executed a little better we win the game. It's that simple. We don't want to be that fanbase that blames officiating for losses do we? It's not a good look.
I should also add that I saw a lot of things I liked in this game. McMillan continuing to play well, something that would be a huge boost for next season after 3 years of debatable play. Clay also really played well and I think cemented the idea that he could step up and be the big contributor should Freeman leave this offseason. And if he doesn't, Clay could definitely be a second star on a very strong Valpo team. I saw Krikke take the ball in the post and make a strong move against their big 7 foot shot blocker and score on him where he shouldn't be able to. Combine that with the recruits we have coming in and I think we are set up well for the future, even if that doesn't include JFL, who I would completely understand if he decided to leave.
I hope he sees and understands what we're building and how close we really are... This team is in for an amazing year next year I think and I hope he wants to be a part of that...
By the way Missouri State lost and Indiana State plays UNI so our Thursday destiny is still pretty much in our own hands (Drake will play them later as well).
The next two home games are huge. Both will be tough but we need them both. If we can go into Terre Haute 9-8 I like our chances of holding onto a top 6 spot.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 19, 2020, 09:41:26 PM
The official excuse is weak I'm sorry. We make a couple more free throws We make a couple of the layups we missed A couple of those around and out shots go in Krikke actually dunks the ball instead of laying it up and Sackey and Robinson aren't absolutely terrible for pretty much every minute their were out there and we're talking at least about a double OT game if not a victory. It's almost never an officials call or calls that decide a game. It's coaching (not in this game but in other games) it's effort It's execution. If we had executed a little better we win the game. It's that simple. We don't want to be that fanbase that blames officiating for losses do we? It's not a good look.
We only shot 9 free throws and made 7, asking them to shoot perfect from the free throw line is not exactly a reasonable ask, but I understand your point on that, and that could be applied to multiple games we lost this year. And I would not be throwing this excuse out there if it weren't for the fact that we had our top not one but two scorers sitting on the bench for essentially the entire overtime because of not one but two critical absolutely bogus calls. I was not even considering writing that until we got to overtime and I had had enough. Freeman call, McMillan call, out of bounds call all going Drake's way with the game on the line was the breaking point for me. There is no doubt they got some home cooking. Maybe I am just sick of moral victories. This game pained me the most because I saw so many things I liked but we still lost. That's what irks me the most for this, especially with how big of a step this would've been getting a win here. 3 straight, avoid thursday, playing well, all wiped out in OT.
While i share the optimism for next year, that assumes there is no impact transfers, which is unrealistic in today's game. We're already guaranteed to lose our best three point shooter and the heart and soul of the team. Nothing is guaranteed year to year anymore.
Go 2-1 these last three and I think we avoid Thursday. MO State has to play Loyola, at Valpo, Southern Illinois. Indiana State has to play Northern Iowa, Southern Ill, and Valpo. I like both to lose two of those games, putting them at 8-10. 2-1 would put us at 9-9 and ahead of them only trailing Drake who I think will finish 9-9 but hold the tie breaker over us, unless those two losses knock them to a lower NET than us. Very close race, but we still control our own destiny, and in my mind, even with a loss.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 19, 2020, 10:01:13 PM
While i share the optimism for next year, that assumes there is no impact transfers, which is unrealistic in today's game. We're already guaranteed to lose our best three point shooter and the heart and soul of the team. Nothing is guaranteed year to year anymore.
I would say the only person besides Freeman that would be a huge hit and has a realistic chance is Clay. His stock has risen so much even since before he stepped on campus.
Funny because when the call in the end of the game went our way the last time out I didn't hear a word about it ... all about which side you're on.
Could someone who has more X's and O's experience explain something to me? Against ISU we ran the "motion" offense in the first half which gave us a 17 point deficit. In the second half we ran a lot of high on the ball screens for JFL which helped us get back in and win the game. Against Drake tonight, we ran the "motion" offense in the first half resulting in an even bigger deficit. It seemed to my untrained eye that in the second half that we again ran more high on the ball screens that resulted in drives to the rim by JFL and open threes by Mileek. Now it seems to me the high on the ball screen works, and the motion offense, well, not so much. So why do we keep with the motion offense during our regular long scoring droughts in the first half, when high on the ball screens seem to work so well? Is this a strategy, sucking in the first half, then switching up in the second half, or is it a simply coaches who refuse to make changes to their desired offensive scheme until they are so far behind they are desperate to get back in the game?
Please, someone educate me.
Live and die by the 3 pointer. Plain and simple. It masks the flaws when we're on - first part of the game and the second half.
It exposes flaws when we're off. There's no point to a motion offense (as we see in these scoring droughts) when you're not making the defenders MOVE.
Sooo when you chuck an ill-advised 3 pointer up early in a possession (especially in the motion offense) you're negating the intended effect of the offense. And, you're eradicating the power of back door cuts.
Take Mileek last night. Couldn't buy a bucket in the first half from outside the arc. Gets hot down the stretch in the second half.
Interestingly enough, Mileek makes 8 - 3 pointers and our 3 point percentage is off the charts in the second half. But then with the game on the line he can't make 2 easy bunnies inside the paint.
It once again shows me - which I've thought all along - Mileek is not a good post player. It's not natural to him. His physique is deceiving as he has the build for a great post player ... but .... that's just not his game. He's maybe a 4 .... but still prefers open looks from outside the arc. If I'm not mistaken - he's like Clay in the sense if he hit a growth spurt and I don't think he has a lot of experience in the post. Not his fault.
Which is why Krikke is our best natural post player (potential-wise). But he doesn't ***look*** like it, physically. Granted, he's got some learning to do as we saw down the stretch yesterday.
Robbins was a beast last night. Best 7 footer I've seen in the valley in some time. Rim protector. What we would've liked our twin towers to be, which they were sparingly.
Quote from: nkvu on February 19, 2020, 11:59:39 PM
Could someone who has more X's and O's experience explain something to me? Against ISU we ran the "motion" offense in the first half which gave us a 17 point deficit. In the second half we ran a lot of high on the ball screens for JFL which helped us get back in and win the game. Against Drake tonight, we ran the "motion" offense in the first half resulting in an even bigger deficit. It seemed to my untrained eye that in the second half that we again ran more high on the ball screens that resulted in drives to the rim by JFL and open threes by Mileek. Now it seems to me the high on the ball screen works, and the motion offense, well, not so much. So why do we keep with the motion offense during our regular long scoring droughts in the first half, when high on the ball screens seem to work so well? Is this a strategy, sucking in the first half, then switching up in the second half, or is it a simply coaches who refuse to make changes to their desired offensive scheme until they are so far behind they are desperate to get back in the game?
Please, someone educate me.
At the beginning of each game, Matt should approach the scorer's table and ask them to put 19 points on the board for our opponent. Only way to get them to play hard the entire game and do what works to win.
Quote from: PlumStreetBum on February 19, 2020, 09:24:21 PM
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 19, 2020, 09:22:46 PMFree Throw attempts. 34-9.
Good point. We didn't drive to the basket nearly enough.
Here is the point of this one. We only deserved 9 free throw attempts because we shot a lot of jumpers.
However, they did NOT deserve 34 attempts... 26 maybe? I am ok with a 26-9 disparity based on the way the game was played. I think that is the complaint here. We got called for a lot of fouls on great aggressive defense.
That said... Like others have said.. When you play on the road that kind of thing is going to happen. The last 8 minutes of the 1st half is what really killed us because it is too much of a deficit to come back from.
Oh well. I like what I have seen the last 4 games. We are the best 14-14 team in the country. :) haha
Funny how we don't discuss how the other coaches and teams blow 17 and 19 point leads at their homes? We should have no business coming back in these games. Interesting, that we chastise Matt for not making changes in first half, but when he does make half-time adjustments, then it's not he has potential as a coach, but he should have made them sooner. Other coaches make no adjustments to what's happening and watch 17 and 19 point leads dissipate by the 3-5 minute mark -- that takes some coaching skill.
I won't recap first half, but college basketball is always going to be about runs. Valpo started well and has been better at this the past few games. However, we had a drought, compounded by ill-advised jacking up 3s when we panicked during the drought. He did burn a TO. To compare, Bryce would have probably burned through 3 TOs and only had 1 for the 2d half. And, droughts occurred quite often from after first TV TO to about 8-9 minutes even back in the Horizon. But, competition wasn't as good and we wouldn't fall as far behind, and then we played much better than this team to close the half. Matt still had 3 for the 2d half and was able to use them judiciously at the end of the game and then OT. By the way, he got a good look at the end of OT. If he burns them all early (and they're still not effective), then there would have been criticism that he didn't save any. This was a tough game to lose, granted, on the road, home-cooking reffing, etc, and they come back from 19 and go to OT and had chances in regulation and OT to win. We continue to try to compare this team to successful teams in a way easier conference, and with a different set of players.
I'm frustrated, but the past 4 games show that this team has more talent and heart than last year. They are still gritty without Kiser so that fear is being alleviated for next year, although could have used his fouls tonight.
To a couple points raised by someone -- you are given 4 TOs at the beginning of the game for the whole game. You have a use it or lose it TO before the half. So you may only start with 3 or fewer for 2d half. They don't reset. You get 2 TOs for OT. Clay continues to improve, Krikke keeps improving (he was much more aggressive offensively on the road last night (although the 3 attempt after sitting for 20 minutes was not helpful, but he's a frosh), McMillan is like Jay Cutler -- good Mileek in 2d half, bad Mileek in 1st half. I keep hoping for more from Nick and Eron. They have that ability to settle folks down and provide more leadership, but their limitations in scoring and Gordon on D have been recently disappointing. Gordon did look a little better shooting last night. Robinson was 0/8 and many ill-advised 3s when the deficit was growing. They have also been able to get over the hump on the road starting with Loyola when coming back from the inevitable double-digit deficit (the dreaded 3 Ds, not the good 3 Ds (drive, dish, dunk/da basket), and make it 50/50 games on the road.
This teams still needs to: (i) rebound better, (ii) value the basketball -- quit the sloppy passes, quit the rushed passes, hold on to rebounds, and (iii) value possessions, particularly when breaks may be available -- we want to run, which is fine, but they must be more discerning about pulling back if numbers aren't there. One question that struck about this year while driving to work this morning was "if this was what actually happened last year, as opposed to whatever that was last year, would you feel better about the retooling post-Horizon and feel better about Matt as a coach?"
Being at the game, the fifth foul call on JFL (and possibly McMillan for that matter) was terrible. He did not mkae contact in any way and I could not understand how that was viewed. Valpo should have won that game last night and they were the better team. Poor offensive motion in the first half and lackadaiscal passing leading to turnovers led to the deficit - I see where "consistently inconsistent" remark applies.
I will say this - JFL and others do need to reduce the facial expressions and whining with the officials. It does not help their cause. I also think Lottich needs to be more assertive in these matters.
Despite the loss, Fun evening at the Knapp. They had Bulldog races at halftime which was cute, and they keep the fans pretty engaged throughout the game. I think Valpo has talent and will get better - I think Lottich can be a really good coach but there is still learning to do.
Quote from: usc4valpo on February 20, 2020, 12:24:42 PM
Being at the game, the fifth foul call on JFL (and possibly McMillan for that matter) was terrible. He did not mkae contact in any way and I could not understand how that was viewed. Valpo should have won that game last night and they were the better team. Poor offensive motion in the first half and lackadaiscal passing leading to turnovers led to the deficit - I see where "consistently inconsistent" remark applies.
I will say this - JFL and others do need to reduce the facial expressions and whining with the officials. It does not help their cause. I also think Lottich needs to be more assertive in these matters.
Despite the loss, Fun evening at the Knapp. They had Bulldog races at halftime which was cute, and they keep the fans pretty engaged throughout the game. I think Valpo has talent and will get better - I think Lottich can be a really good coach but there is still learning to do.
As I have noted a number of times in the past, the frustration and reactions of the players toward officials is understandable and directly related to observing their coach not having their backs in those instances. At the end of the game and into overtime, JFL had a phantom foul call to knock him out of the game, McMillen had a dubious foul call to knock him out of the game, and an out of bounds clearly off an opponent was judged off Gordon. In all three instances that certainly could have influenced the outcome of the game, the players were justified in expressing their frustration, particularly when Lottich did not offer forceful objections of his own to the officials. If they could depend on Lottich, they wouldn't feel a need to be as demonstrative themselves. Repeatedly, I have noted Lottich's habit of merely raising his hands in frustration as if surrendering but not being more adamant in confrontations with officials. Officials know they can make 50/50 calls against VU and they will not receive any real push-back pressure from the Valpo sideline.
As stated before, I wish Valpo would have a facility like the Knapp Center instead of a HS gym and more attention on athletics, particularly now as a MVC member. Drake and Valpo are in a similar situation.
I do not understand where people get this lottich doesn't work the refs notion. I sit behind the bench and he is talking to the refs the whole time down the court, pleading them to explain. They showed him on the tv multiple times yesterday talking to the officials after bad calls. Would you rather have him yelling in their faces and get a tech and give them 2 free throws and the ball in a tie overtime game?
Quote from: vok22 on February 20, 2020, 03:12:36 PM
I do not understand where people get this lottich doesn't work the refs notion. I sit behind the bench and he is talking to the refs the whole time down the court, pleading them to explain. They showed him on the tv multiple times yesterday talking to the officials after bad calls. Would you rather have him yelling in their faces and get a tech and give them 2 free throws and the ball in a tie overtime game?
False polarization here. There is a middle ground between requesting an explanation and shouting in their faces to get a tech. In the three most grievous examples of bad calls I cited that happened near the end of the game, I saw no strong objections by Lottich to the bad calls even after JFL, Mileek, and Eron expressed their displeasure to the officials.
Quote from: usc4valpo on February 20, 2020, 12:24:42 PMBeing at the game, the fifth foul call on JFL (and possibly McMillan for that matter) was terrible. He did not mkae contact in any way and I could not understand how that was viewed. Valpo should have won that game last night and they were the better team. Poor offensive motion in the first half and lackadaiscal passing leading to turnovers led to the deficit - I see where "consistently inconsistent" remark applies. I will say this - JFL and others do need to reduce the facial expressions and whining with the officials. It does not help their cause. I also think Lottich needs to be more assertive in these matters. Despite the loss, Fun evening at the Knapp. They had Bulldog races at halftime which was cute, and they keep the fans pretty engaged throughout the game. I think Valpo has talent and will get better - I think Lottich can be a really good coach but there is still learning to do.
I can't stand it when players whine about ref calls. Didn't many Valpo fans hate that when Smits did it incessantly? And other players now gone?
Just Stop It!
Our center attempted 8 threes? I guess trying to draw the 7 footer out?
And he hit 6 of them but it still didn't work. Robbins still threw a one man block party in the paint. It really wasn't our night at all.
Quote from: valpopal on February 20, 2020, 01:17:43 PMAs I have noted a number of times in the past, the frustration and reactions of the players toward officials is understandable and directly related to observing their coach not having their backs in those instances.
You know this how?
Quote from: JD24 on February 20, 2020, 09:30:34 PM
Quote from: valpopal on February 20, 2020, 01:17:43 PMAs I have noted a number of times in the past, the frustration and reactions of the players toward officials is understandable and directly related to observing their coach not having their backs in those instances.
You know this how?
In all three instances I cited from late in the Drake game and you cut out of your reply, I watched the players look at the coach with facial expressions and body language as if imploring for stronger support toward the officials for their cause, but that forceful back up did not materialize. I even replayed the three times the players complained to the refs about the bad calls, and their frustration was evident in each case. After other games when Lottich was questioned about bad calls on his players, he sympathized with the officials who are "only doing their job," even one time in the press conference when JFL had just stated the call clearly was wrong and Lottich could have said something as simple and mild as "that's the way I saw it as well" in a gesture of support for his star player. Lottich doesn't need to rage and get a technical foul, but he could at least be as expressive as his players on those occasions when there are blatantly bad calls so they don't have to do it, and he could voice general agreement with their concerns about the calls as a sign of solidarity.
Add another reason why we're afraid JFL might be looking elsewhere... I really hope he's not but I totally understand if he is...
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 20, 2020, 11:13:51 PM
Add another reason why we're afraid JFL might be looking elsewhere... I really hope he's not but I totally understand if he is...
Seriously guys, think about this aspect. Does JFL want to sit out a year in a transfer, heading into his JR season? The guy has professional ambitions, and if he does leave, it would probably be an early graduation type of scenario, where he can use the grad transfer rule. I am more worried about Clay leaving after his FR year, than I am with JFL leaving after a SO season, where he has to sit a year. Now, if NCAA rules change in the offseason, to allow a 1 time transfer without sitting out, I would be very worried.
Quote from: valpotx on February 21, 2020, 05:13:59 AMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on February 20, 2020, 11:13:51 PMAdd another reason why we're afraid JFL might be looking elsewhere... I really hope he's not but I totally understand if he is...
Seriously guys, think about this aspect. Does JFL want to sit out a year in a transfer, heading into his JR season? The guy has professional ambitions, and if he does leave, it would probably be an early graduation type of scenario, where he can use the grad transfer rule. I am more worried about Clay leaving after his FR year, than I am with JFL leaving after a SO season, where he has to sit a year. Now, if NCAA rules change in the offseason, to allow a 1 time transfer without sitting out, I would be very worried.
No less than the Big 10 and the ACC are pushing for that rule to be in place BY THE START OF NEXT SEASON. We should be very concerned. Because conferences of that size and influence get what they want no questions asked because they own the NCAA not the other way around. In spite of that I really hope and I pray to whatever Gods may be and may be listening that we are allowed to keep this core together and realize the benefits of their growth in the MVC to establish ourselves and our program in the post Drew era. I don't know if we've exhausted all of our karma for being screwed out of a tournament bid by our conference collapsing (thank you most of the current HL) but if we have a little bit left I would really like a deep tournament run to establish our program and boost enrollment to solve whatever financial issues we may have and spur further development of the basketball program and the athletic department. Please Please Please. Amen.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on February 20, 2020, 11:13:51 PMAdd another reason why we're afraid JFL might be looking elsewhere... I really hope he's not but I totally understand if he is...
You should pin this post as your standard comment when we lose.
Things are progressing nicely as we're all rowing in the same boat. One boat. One team!
Quote from: valpopal on February 20, 2020, 11:06:53 PMQuote from: JD24 on February 20, 2020, 09:30:34 PMQuote from: valpopal on February 20, 2020, 01:17:43 PMAs I have noted a number of times in the past, the frustration and reactions of the players toward officials is understandable and directly related to observing their coach not having their backs in those instances.
You know this how?
In all three instances I cited from late in the Drake game and you cut out of your reply, I watched the players look at the coach with facial expressions and body language as if imploring for stronger support toward the officials for their cause, but that forceful back up did not materialize. I even replayed the three times the players complained to the refs about the bad calls, and their frustration was evident in each case. After other games when Lottich was questioned about bad calls on his players, he sympathized with the officials who are "only doing their job," even one time in the press conference when JFL had just stated the call clearly was wrong and Lottich could have said something as simple and mild as "that's the way I saw it as well" in a gesture of support for his star player. Lottich doesn't need to rage and get a technical foul, but he could at least be as expressive as his players on those occasions when there are blatantly bad calls so they don't have to do it, and he could voice general agreement with their concerns about the calls as a sign of solidarity.
So you have no idea and it is your opinion and speculation on whether Lottich's perceived indifference to calls and the players reaction is related. In other words there is no "is"
Quote from: JD24 on February 21, 2020, 09:03:07 PM
So you have no idea and it is your opinion and speculation on whether Lottich's perceived indifference to calls and the players reaction is related. In other words there is no "is"
You are free to disagree, but "opinion" and "speculation" suggest no evidence. However, I offered a number of specific instances that establish a pattern, and in the past I have cited others. Therefore, unless you think they were all just coincidental and not consequential, the conclusion I presented would be regarded as logically deduced from evidence. In law this is labeled as "credible evidence," something that can't be proven beyond a reasonable doubt but which is "worthy of belief and consideration."
Quote from: valpopal on February 21, 2020, 09:33:58 PMQuote from: JD24 on February 21, 2020, 09:03:07 PMSo you have no idea and it is your opinion and speculation on whether Lottich's perceived indifference to calls and the players reaction is related. In other words there is no "is"
You are free to disagree, but "opinion" and "speculation" suggest no evidence. However, I offered a number of specific instances that establish a pattern, and in the past I have cited others. Therefore, unless you think they were all just coincidental and not consequential, the conclusion I presented would be regarded as logically deduced from evidence. In law this is labeled as "credible evidence," something that can't be proven beyond a reasonable doubt but which is "worthy of belief and consideration."
You've invented a "fact" to support a supposition on your part which backs a narrative on your part. You're free to have that opinion but at least express it as so instead of concluding it is so. Had your opinion been expressed as such, I wouldn't have said anything. However you didn't present it as opinion.
Quote from: JD24 on February 22, 2020, 08:28:41 AM
Quote from: valpopal on February 21, 2020, 09:33:58 PMQuote from: JD24 on February 21, 2020, 09:03:07 PMSo you have no idea and it is your opinion and speculation on whether Lottich's perceived indifference to calls and the players reaction is related. In other words there is no "is"
You are free to disagree, but "opinion" and "speculation" suggest no evidence. However, I offered a number of specific instances that establish a pattern, and in the past I have cited others. Therefore, unless you think they were all just coincidental and not consequential, the conclusion I presented would be regarded as logically deduced from evidence. In law this is labeled as "credible evidence," something that can't be proven beyond a reasonable doubt but which is "worthy of belief and consideration."
You've invented a "fact" to support a supposition on your part which backs a narrative on your part. You're free to have that opinion but at least express it as so instead of concluding it is so. Had your opinion been expressed as such, I wouldn't have said anything. However you didn't present it as opinion.
You can ignore the facts if you want or disagree with the conclusion based upon them, but they are not "invented." As I cited, they are visible in the replays of the games and press conferences for all to see, and they establish a pattern, which would be recognized as credible evidence not merely opinion. When a meteorologist observes the wind patterns or movement of a storm front and says it will rain tomorrow, he is not just offering an opinion, he is doing so based upon a pattern of evidence. Even if it does not rain the next day, his statement was based upon facts rather than just an opinion.
If one is actually saying that one of the reasons that we have not been more successful or won more games this year is because of Coach L's lack of complaining about the refs calls and getting more worked up on the sidelines, I think you better get a life. I have never heard of a more ridiculous statement in my life. Come on man, chill out, relax and watch this young , inexperienced team respond to Coach's leadership and improve this year as we also look forward to a more successful, fun season next year. This season has been a very highly competitive season in the MVC. Look at how closely the teams are bunched, other than IL St and EU. And I believe those 2 bottom feeders will pull a surprise or 2 before this year ends. I don't know about the rest of you on this board, but I am sick and tired of hearing the ongoing blame game on Coach L for every little thing that goes wrong this year, whether we win or lose. It takes very little intellect to be a constant critic of someone or something...it is too easy to be negative. I am not saying that Lottich does not make mistakes, and he too has had some bad games. But seriously folks, some of the things being said are uncalled for, especially on a continuing basis. It is getting old!
What a world it would be if I could get paid well into the six figures and continually perform mediocre and have others support me relentlessly lol. That's not real life for the majority of people in a results-driven, competitive, business-oriented world.
"Come on man, chill out, relax and watch this young , inexperienced team respond to Coach's leadership and improve this year as we also look forward to a more successful, fun season next year."
We've been hearing this for three years.
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on February 22, 2020, 11:20:28 AM
What a world it would be if I could get paid well into the six figures and continually perform mediocre and have others support me relentlessly lol. That's not real life for the majority of people in a results-driven, competitive, business-oriented world.
I really hope you aren't serious. He won the conference in his first year as a coach, he has a career winning record, led the transition to a much more competitive conference, and has consistently raised our win total each year in the conference. I see definite improvement and think the next two season should be the the judge, whether they turn out well for him or not. Not even a complete four seasons, including a conference championship, is hardly enough so conclude "consistent mediocrity"
Quote from: valpo64 on February 22, 2020, 11:15:17 AM
If one is actually saying that one of the reasons that we have not been more successful or won more games this year is because of Coach L's lack of complaining about the refs calls and getting more worked up on the sidelines, I think you better get a life. I have never heard of a more ridiculous statement in my life.
If a couple of calls had gone the other way, the team might have won another game or two, including the recent Loyola game and this Drake game where JFL and Mileek were forced out of playing in the overtime because of bad calls, and Valpo would not be in danger of playing Thursday night. So, yes, we might have won more games and been more successful. I say this as a fan who has always supported Lottich and wants him to do well, but who has seen his relationship with refs as one weakness throughout his tenure.
Quote from: valpopal on February 22, 2020, 12:15:10 PMIf a couple of calls had gone the other way, the team might have won another game or two, including the recent Loyola game and this Drake game where JFL and Mileek were forced out of playing in the overtime because of bad calls,
Exactly. I miss the part where Matt made the calls though.
Outside of JFL and Clay, this team doesnt have anyone that's worth getting excited about. That's my fear. If JFL transfers Valpo will be trash next year. That's a legit concern.
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How you say that? I thought this staff was good at recruiting and we had the talent.
We have 2 stars then it falls off fast. Fazekas and McMillan can shoot sometimes but thats all they are good at. Seriously average defenders. Gordon and Robinson...what are they consistently good at.
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agreed. And would add this too, Much more talent on those HL teams that we had. Not only were those teams more talented than the last 3 years at Valpo, but they were so much more talented than any of the competition in the HL. We recruited so much better than the rest of the HL. We got MVC players and played in the HL.
I remember several arguments that the HL 1st and 2nd team should just be Valpo. We had guys coming off the bench that would be stars at the other HL schools.
Quote from: truth219 on February 22, 2020, 12:43:30 PM
Outside of JFL and Clay, this team doesnt have anyone that's worth getting excited about. That's my fear. If JFL transfers Valpo will be trash next year. That's a legit concern.
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It's a legitimate concern. I hope that alone is not other fans' reason to sack Lottich.
P.S. Why are we ignoring how bad Daniel Sackey is playing? I've heard of sophomore slumps but wowza!
How many players have sacked on lottich....
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Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 22, 2020, 01:16:25 PM
Quote from: truth219 on February 22, 2020, 12:43:30 PM
Outside of JFL and Clay, this team doesnt have anyone that's worth getting excited about. That's my fear. If JFL transfers Valpo will be trash next year. That's a legit concern.
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It's a legitimate concern. I hope that alone is not other fans' reason to sack Lottich.
P.S. Why are we ignoring how bad Daniel Sackey is playing? I've heard of sophomore slumps but wowza!
Is it conceivable that a large part of our first half slumps begin with no floor General? I mean that certainly isn't all of it, but I'm sure some are wishing Micah was still around to pickup the slack.
Had Bryce Drews last team at Valpo been on the MVC, I bet they would have cracked the top 25. I know people hate looking back, but that was a fun time to be a fan. Bryce was such a icon in the community. I miss him
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Well said Truth. Several of those teams would have been sniffing top 25
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 22, 2020, 01:32:11 PM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 22, 2020, 01:16:25 PM
Quote from: truth219 on February 22, 2020, 12:43:30 PM
Outside of JFL and Clay, this team doesnt have anyone that's worth getting excited about. That's my fear. If JFL transfers Valpo will be trash next year. That's a legit concern.
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It's a legitimate concern. I hope that alone is not other fans' reason to sack Lottich.
P.S. Why are we ignoring how bad Daniel Sackey is playing? I've heard of sophomore slumps but wowza!
Is it conceivable that a large part of our first half slumps begin with no floor General? I mean that certainly isn't all of it, but I'm sure some are wishing Micah was still around to pickup the slack.
Correct we don't have a floor General, a post presence, or anyone super athletic ie shame hammik
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And if we don't have any of those things (floor general, etc.) at what point is that not just on the players but the one who is lauded for recruiting them? Take away Matt's first year with Peters & Co. - aka Bryce's players - and he DOES NOT have a winning record. 44-49 or something like that. 24 of his wins have been during the Peters era. And, how many of those wins are non-conference?....
Consider this:
16/17 = 24-9 & 14-4 in conference.
17/19 = 15-17 & 6-12 in conference.
18/19 = 15-18 & 7-11 in conference.
19/20 = 14-14 & 7-8 in conference (so far).
Total conference wins in (4) seasons to date = 34.
Total conference wins in (3) seasons to date in MVC = 20.
Total losses in (3) seasons to date in MVC = 31.
Total winning seasons in (4) seasons to date = 1 (with Peters & Bryce's Recruits)
Quote from: valpopal on February 22, 2020, 09:43:22 AMQuote from: JD24 on February 22, 2020, 08:28:41 AMQuote from: valpopal on February 21, 2020, 09:33:58 PMQuote from: JD24 on February 21, 2020, 09:03:07 PMSo you have no idea and it is your opinion and speculation on whether Lottich's perceived indifference to calls and the players reaction is related. In other words there is no "is"
You are free to disagree, but "opinion" and "speculation" suggest no evidence. However, I offered a number of specific instances that establish a pattern, and in the past I have cited others. Therefore, unless you think they were all just coincidental and not consequential, the conclusion I presented would be regarded as logically deduced from evidence. In law this is labeled as "credible evidence," something that can't be proven beyond a reasonable doubt but which is "worthy of belief and consideration."
You've invented a "fact" to support a supposition on your part which backs a narrative on your part. You're free to have that opinion but at least express it as so instead of concluding it is so. Had your opinion been expressed as such, I wouldn't have said anything. However you didn't present it as opinion.
You can ignore the facts if you want or disagree with the conclusion based upon them, but they are not "invented." As I cited, they are visible in the replays of the games and press conferences for all to see, and they establish a pattern, which would be recognized as credible evidence not merely opinion. When a meteorologist observes the wind patterns or movement of a storm front and says it will rain tomorrow, he is not just offering an opinion, he is doing so based upon a pattern of evidence. Even if it does not rain the next day, his statement was based upon facts rather than just an opinion.
There's no facts here. You've somehow become the facial recognition guru of the board but it's strictly opinion.
Quote from: truth219 on February 22, 2020, 12:43:30 PMOutside of JFL and Clay, this team doesnt have anyone that's worth getting excited about. That's my fear. If JFL transfers Valpo will be trash next year. That's a legit concern. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
I think Clay has a chance to be better than JFL but you're overall point is spot on. I think the board overrates the roster by a fair amount.
Quote from: JD24 on February 22, 2020, 05:23:20 PM
Quote from: valpopal on February 22, 2020, 09:43:22 AMQuote from: JD24 on February 22, 2020, 08:28:41 AMQuote from: valpopal on February 21, 2020, 09:33:58 PMQuote from: JD24 on February 21, 2020, 09:03:07 PMSo you have no idea and it is your opinion and speculation on whether Lottich's perceived indifference to calls and the players reaction is related. In other words there is no "is"
You are free to disagree, but "opinion" and "speculation" suggest no evidence. However, I offered a number of specific instances that establish a pattern, and in the past I have cited others. Therefore, unless you think they were all just coincidental and not consequential, the conclusion I presented would be regarded as logically deduced from evidence. In law this is labeled as "credible evidence," something that can't be proven beyond a reasonable doubt but which is "worthy of belief and consideration."
You've invented a "fact" to support a supposition on your part which backs a narrative on your part. You're free to have that opinion but at least express it as so instead of concluding it is so. Had your opinion been expressed as such, I wouldn't have said anything. However you didn't present it as opinion.
You can ignore the facts if you want or disagree with the conclusion based upon them, but they are not "invented." As I cited, they are visible in the replays of the games and press conferences for all to see, and they establish a pattern, which would be recognized as credible evidence not merely opinion. When a meteorologist observes the wind patterns or movement of a storm front and says it will rain tomorrow, he is not just offering an opinion, he is doing so based upon a pattern of evidence. Even if it does not rain the next day, his statement was based upon facts rather than just an opinion.
There's no facts here. You've somehow become the facial recognition guru of the board but it's strictly opinion.
As I noted, in the postgame press conference after JFL was fouled at Loyola in the final play but no call was made, Javon said there definitely was contact, but Lottich neglected to back his player by saying something as simple and supportive as "that's the way I saw it as well." Instead, Lottich merely said the referees were just doing their job. That is a fact, indisputable, and it has nothing to do with "facial recognition."
So much I want to respond to here... So here goes... (And yes I know this thread is dated a bit).
Quote from: valpo64 on February 22, 2020, 11:15:17 AMIf one is actually saying that one of the reasons that we have not been more successful or won more games this year is because of Coach L's lack of complaining about the refs calls and getting more worked up on the sidelines, I think you better get a life. I have never heard of a more ridiculous statement in my life. Come on man, chill out, relax and watch this young , inexperienced team respond to Coach's leadership and improve this year as we also look forward to a more successful, fun season next year. This season has been a very highly competitive season in the MVC. Look at how closely the teams are bunched, other than IL St and EU. And I believe those 2 bottom feeders will pull a surprise or 2 before this year ends. I don't know about the rest of you on this board, but I am sick and tired of hearing the ongoing blame game on Coach L for every little thing that goes wrong this year, whether we win or lose. It takes very little intellect to be a constant critic of someone or something...it is too easy to be negative. I am not saying that Lottich does not make mistakes, and he too has had some bad games. But seriously folks, some of the things being said are uncalled for, especially on a continuing basis. It is getting old!
Great post! Especially the part about the bottom of the conference pulling some surprises. Surprise #1: Illinois State over Drake pulling us back even!
Quote from: vok22 on February 22, 2020, 11:48:45 AMQuote from: GoldenCrusader87 on February 22, 2020, 11:20:28 AMWhat a world it would be if I could get paid well into the six figures and continually perform mediocre and have others support me relentlessly lol. That's not real life for the majority of people in a results-driven, competitive, business-oriented world.
I really hope you aren't serious. He won the conference in his first year as a coach, he has a career winning record, led the transition to a much more competitive conference, and has consistently raised our win total each year in the conference. I see definite improvement and think the next two season should be the the judge, whether they turn out well for him or not. Not even a complete four seasons, including a conference championship, is hardly enough so conclude "consistent mediocrity"
Fair point. We are getting better. That is an undeniable fact. Are we getting better fast enough? That remains to be seen but it feels like a lot is riding on these next two games to provide an indication of yes or no.
Quote from: truth219 on February 22, 2020, 12:43:30 PMOutside of JFL and Clay, this team doesnt have anyone that's worth getting excited about. That's my fear. If JFL transfers Valpo will be trash next year. That's a legit concern. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
I disagree. I would add Krikke to that list. And the upcoming class. McMillan has made tremendous strides in his overall game especially this year. I think we're in for a good year from him next year. I think Gordon deserves more PT to show what he can do. Morgan too if for no other reason than he defends really well.
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 22, 2020, 01:14:03 PMagreed. And would add this too, Much more talent on those HL teams that we had. Not only were those teams more talented than the last 3 years at Valpo, but they were so much more talented than any of the competition in the HL. We recruited so much better than the rest of the HL. We got MVC players and played in the HL. I remember several arguments that the HL 1st and 2nd team should just be Valpo. We had guys coming off the bench that would be stars at the other HL schools.
Were those Valpo teams really more talented than this team or were we just shining against weaker competition? I think this statement totally ignores what a step up in competition the MVC is. JFL would have DESTROYED the HL. Clay Krikke and McMillan would be stars in the HL. Sackey Gordon Robinson and Morgan would also be really good players in the HL. Competition matters. We don't have a bunch of sub 300 NET teams to play in conference anymore which is part of the reason we moved up and is a reason for patience (even though I have not always shown it). Let things build and we'll be better for it.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 22, 2020, 01:32:11 PMQuote from: FieldGoodie05 on February 22, 2020, 01:16:25 PMQuote from: truth219 on February 22, 2020, 12:43:30 PMOutside of JFL and Clay, this team doesnt have anyone that's worth getting excited about. That's my fear. If JFL transfers Valpo will be trash next year. That's a legit concern. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
It's a legitimate concern. I hope that alone is not other fans' reason to sack Lottich. P.S. Why are we ignoring how bad Daniel Sackey is playing? I've heard of sophomore slumps but wowza!
Is it conceivable that a large part of our first half slumps begin with no floor General? I mean that certainly isn't all of it, but I'm sure some are wishing Micah was still around to pickup the slack.
Sackey has played really poorly this year. There is no getting around that. But Micah Bradford despite a stretch of improved play at the end of his last year as I recall was and is no answer to this team's point guard woes. Maybe trying Gordon in that role might be?
Quote from: truth219 on February 22, 2020, 01:33:33 PMHad Bryce Drews last team at Valpo been on the MVC, I bet they would have cracked the top 25. I know people hate looking back, but that was a fun time to be a fan. Bryce was such a icon in the community. I miss him Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
I liked this for the Bryce part. However only the last two HL teams would have been anywhere near competitive in the MVC. And remember that MVC would have included Wichita State (which pretty much makes any comparisons totally irrelevant anyway).
Those teams of Bryce's in the HL beat good out of conference teams not just HL teams.
Vok24 - totally disagree. The last 3 seasons have been mediocre. There has been improvement, but at the end the record has been around or below the .500 mark. That is the definition of mediocrity and we should want to strive for more than that.
Lottich is not the problem, it is the infrastructure at Valparaiso that is the problem. Valpo basketball has done more for the university than what the university has done for the basketball team. It is past time to pay the pauper.
Quote from: usc4valpo on February 23, 2020, 07:42:34 AMVok24 - totally disagree. The last 3 seasons have been mediocre. There has been improvement, but at the end the record has been around or below the .500 mark. That is the definition of mediocrity and we should want to strive for more than that. Lottich is not the problem, it is the infrastructure at Valparaiso that is the problem. Valpo basketball has done more for the university than what the university has done for the basketball team. It is past time to pay the pauper.
Is the piper poor? If so, to pay him would be charity, not what he deserved. Just Sayin
Quote from: usc4valpo on February 23, 2020, 07:42:34 AM
Vok24 - totally disagree. The last 3 seasons have been mediocre. There has been improvement, but at the end the record has been around or below the .500 mark. That is the definition of mediocrity and we should want to strive for more than that.
Lottich is not the problem, it is the infrastructure at Valparaiso that is the problem. Valpo basketball has done more for the university than what the university has done for the basketball team. It is past time to pay the pauper.
I don't disagree necessarily. I just don't think we can already conclude that Lottich will be a consistently mediocre coach when we have players like Clay, Freeman, Krikke, and the recruits coming in all being freshman and sophomores on a team that will likely finish with a .500 league winning percentage.
In Valpo's first year in the MVC:
In Conference: MVC was the 9th best conference according to KenPom
2018
Valpo's Offensive Efficiency was 9th
Valpo's Defensvie Efficiency was 4th
eFG% 4th
2P% 4th
3P% 5th
FT% 7th
2019 MVC 15th Best Conference
OE 10th
DE 1st
eFG% 9th
2P% 5th
3Pt% 10th
FT% 8th
2020 To Date MVC 11th Best Conference
OE 7th
DE 6th
eFG% 6th
2Pt% 4th
3Pt% 9th
FT% 3rd
This is the Drake game thread...
Lets take a moment to remember how big this game would have been had we won it. This game was a real missed opportunity and would have almost assuredly kept us out of Thursday and maybe even put us in the discussion for the 5 seed.
I still think the refs hurt us in this one. Short handed the last 9ish minutes of the 1st half and short handed in OT. We played very well at all times we were not short handed at a gym that is very hard to win in. Calls in this one really didn't go our way. I am 100% confident on a neutral court we are better than Drake 8 out of 10 games.
Drake's record really regressing this year compared to last year, and they returned most of their talent. Maybe we should put their coach on the hot seat as well. Jacobson from UNI had a few really bad seasons in a row the last few years and this year their teams have had some really horrible halves. I think they scored 19 points in the 1st half in their loss the other night. Maybe put Jacobson on the hot seat as well because UNI doesn't have multiple bad seasons in a row followed by inconsistency from an experienced roster in a year they were supposed to dominate the MVC... Forgot to add coach Ford from Missouri State to the list, they have talent and were supposed to be really good this year after catching fire last year and surprising everyone. Lets also take a time machine back to when Porter Moser sucked at coaching for about a decade or more. He must just be getting lucky lately. <------ The sarcasm in this paragraph is THICK....and should be read as such. Bottom line, winning is hard, and sometimes you get momentum and overachieve and sometimes everything goes wrong and the wheels come off. #Lottich2022 Until then, just stop talking about it, at that moment we can decide how good or not good he is. Still not enough info yet.
Quote from: SanityLost17 on February 23, 2020, 09:48:41 AM
This is the Drake game thread...
Lets take a moment to remember how big this game would have been had we won it. This game was a real missed opportunity and would have almost assuredly kept us out of Thursday and maybe even put us in the discussion for the 5 seed.
I still think the refs hurt us in this one. Short handed the last 9ish minutes of the 1st half and short handed in OT. We played very well at all times we were not short handed at a gym that is very hard to win in. Calls in this one really didn't go our way. I am 100% confident on a neutral court we are better than Drake 8 out of 10 games.
Drake's record really regressing this year compared to last year, and they returned most of their talent. Maybe we should put their coach on the hot seat as well. Jacobson from UNI had a few really bad seasons in a row the last few years and this year their teams have had some really horrible halves. I think they scored 19 points in the 1st half in their loss the other night. Maybe put Jacobson on the hot seat as well because UNI doesn't have multiple bad seasons in a row followed by inconsistency from an experienced roster in a year they were supposed to dominate the MVC... Forgot to add coach Ford from Missouri State to the list, they have talent and were supposed to be really good this year after catching fire last year and surprising everyone. Lets also take a time machine back to when Porter Moser sucked at coaching for about a decade or more. He must just be getting lucky lately. <------ The sarcasm in this paragraph is THICK....and should be read as such. Bottom line, winning is hard, and sometimes you get momentum and overachieve and sometimes everything goes wrong and the wheels come off. #Lottich2022 Until then, just stop talking about it, at that moment we can decide how good or not good he is. Still not enough info yet.
I don't care if he stays or goes as long as there's a defined plan of action (change for sake of change is a bs reason). I think the only time where I really wanted him to go was the immediate aftermath of transfer gate, but since then I'm neutral on him.
That being said I wonder why you were so offended by these people posting their feelings? I admit it gets a little old at times, but as long as we aren't talking about arc renovations I'll take this bull crap for a time!!!!
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 19, 2020, 07:45:55 PM
Live by the 3, die by the 3.
So true. We blew Bradley away by the three (18). Sometimes this team can shoot very well.