https://twitter.com/NJ_Joel/status/1231567911241666562
I haven't visited the off topic section in months pretty much because I have judged it to be devoid of any intelligent life. ;) This virus and its results does deserve our comment and reflection.
Yesterday I attended a wake consisting largely of folks who are 6o to 80+. So a high risk group of longest term friends, relatives and associates exchanges handshakes, kisses and hugs without cautions. With the mortality rates still uncertain could an infection among us lead to elevated deaths and a midwest panic? Don't answer yet.
How much did the fear factor depress our late season attendance? How many will cancel the trip to St Louis because of the unknowns? This question is everywhere and effecting everything with no place to hide.
Bigger picture-bigger problems. Wall St is in panic. A global bond bubble is about to explode. I can not define financial safety let alone find it. If you have any of it stockpiled in your basement could you share it with the rest of us?
I have been an active investor for over 50 years and I have never been more panicked. Chairman Powell has no clue. The world central bankers are even dumber than he is. Trump still thinks negative interest rates can save us or rather him. :'( :'( This is more a financial than a health risk and I see no logical answers or reassurances. Given that the planet would be better off with a greatly reduced human population should I jump out of the window now or let the virus do its work? Should I try to land on Just Saying so we can take our differences to a private place? Any and all comments are welcome!
This too shall pass. It would be stupid to sell any investments during this panic season.
You are welcome.
Quote from: justducky on March 03, 2020, 02:40:48 PM
I haven't visited the off topic section in months pretty much because I have judged it to be devoid of any intelligent life. ;) This virus and its results does deserve our comment and reflection.
Yesterday I attended a wake consisting largely of folks who are 6o to 80+. So a high risk group of longest term friends, relatives and associates exchanges handshakes, kisses and hugs without cautions. With the mortality rates still uncertain could an infection among us lead to elevated deaths and a midwest panic? Don't answer yet.
How much did the fear factor depress our late season attendance? How many will cancel the trip to St Louis because of the unknowns? This question is everywhere and effecting everything with no place to hide.
Bigger picture-bigger problems. Wall St is in panic. A global bond bubble is about to explode. I can not define financial safety let alone find it. If you have any of it stockpiled in your basement could you share it with the rest of us?
I have been an active investor for over 50 years and I have never been more panicked. Chairman Powell has no clue. The world central bankers are even dumber than he is. Trump still thinks negative interest rates can save us or rather him. :'( :'( This is more a financial than a health risk and I see no logical answers or reassurances. Given that the planet would be better off with a greatly reduced human population should I jump out of the window now or let the virus do its work? Should I try to land on Just Saying so we can take our differences to a private place? Any and all comments are welcome!
So I'm a Certified Financial Planner, so I, have the answer! Probably not... I will say that the investment choices are very limited. If you want yield you can get 1.02 in the 10 year Treasury.
So that leaves us equities. So where do you look? Europe? Nope. Asia? Nope. Get the picture? The US market may end up being the best looking horse at the glue factory--but it may be the only choice.
I tell clients all the time that I have no idea when a correction will happen or what will make it happen--but it WILL happen. If you've been investing for 50 years you've made it through Black Monday, 1987-- down 22.6% IN ONE DAY! (this would be the equivalent of a one day drop today of about 6500 points on the Dow) Or the financial crisis of 2008, when the market was down 30%+ for the year. Stuff happens.
So here's a plan--don't try to time the market, it doesn't work. As long as you are continuing to invest (still working), just keep investing. It's called dollar cost averaging. When the market comes back, and I have no idea when--but it will--you will be just fine. May take a few years but people will still use technology, eat stuff, buy cars and go to basketball tournaments.
It just might take a while. Be calm and let God!
S&P500 up 4.22% TODAY
YTD: Down just under 3%.
Buy from the scared, sell to the greedy.
Rebalance strategy: Scale in and out of the S&P 500 every 10% move one way or the other.
Asset allocation: 50% S&P Index Fund/50% Bond Index Fund
Quack quack.
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 04, 2020, 04:41:03 PM
S&P500 up 4.22% TODAY
YTD: Down just under 3%.
Buy from the scared, sell to the greedy.
Rebalance strategy: Scale in and out of the S&P 500 every 10% move one way or the other.
Asset allocation: 50% S&P Index Fund/50% Bond Index Fund
Quack quack.
I don't think you and 72 got my point. I still own stocks with an expanded cash liquidity position. I'm even back to using option volatility to grow positions and income. It is the 39 year old bond bubble that will create our next financial armageddon! :'( Nothing about 1/2 point rate cuts to .9% 10 year treasuries with accompanying trillion
dollar deficits can be looked at as normal. We are pumping cheap gasoline on an aging full employment economy in an attempt to further delay a slowdown. :crazy: This totally uncharted water. I don't know how this will unravel I just know that it will.
Seriously if any of you have some vision of how we ever get back to normal then please share it. I just don't see it happening without some brutal pain.
Hey the Trumpeter has one great idea. We SHOULD refinance every nickel we can at 30 year rates. That is a fantastic idea. :thumbsup: I wouldn't buy or own any of it but that is the whole point of this debate.
Quote from: justducky on March 04, 2020, 07:06:06 PMHey the Trumpeter has one great idea. We SHOULD refinance every nickel we can at 30 year rates. That is a fantastic idea. I wouldn't buy or own any of it but that is the whole point of this debate.
Un-chartered to be sure. Perhaps we should borrow $500 Billion at next to nothing and use the money to rebuild stuff. I have never seen such continued volatility in the stock market. Deficits are what makes this so troubling. We have a full employment economy and are running trillions of dollars in debt. When I studied economics at Valpo a hundred years ago, I was told that huge deficits cause two things--higher taxes and/or runaway inflation. But financially how do you prepare? This gets back to un-chartered. Stay the course, be consistent and take the Warren Buffet approach. If it is a good company and you liked it at $10 per share, you should love it at $5.
Quote from: vu72 on March 05, 2020, 09:38:19 AMPerhaps we should borrow $500 Billion at next to nothing and use the money to rebuild stuff.
Borrow now but bigger, engineer all of it and open it for bids only when the recession is in progress. That could soften the blow considerably.
Quote from: vu72 on March 05, 2020, 09:38:19 AMDeficits are what makes this so troubling. We have a full employment economy and are running trillions of dollars in debt. When I studied economics at Valpo a hundred years ago, I was told that huge deficits cause two things--higher taxes and/or runaway inflation. But financially how do you prepare?
This morning I dug out my well worn 1962 copyrighted Managerial Finance text for Finance 301 or 305 or whatever it was. But the Present value of an annuity table in the back is timeless because simple mathematics remains simple mathematics. Long story short anyone who buys long term debt at sub 2% rates loses their ass when the Kudlow fantasy of vanishing deficits is disproven, thus popping the bond bubble, thus triggering US debt to be priced as a credit risk (5 to 10% ???) Messy business! Economic fallout everywhere. And the only republican plan for that eventuality is to blame everything on the dems. :'(
Quote from: vu72 on March 05, 2020, 09:38:19 AMBut financially how do you prepare?
Banking was so over regulated last time around that their risks are now minimal. Strange combo that has lost me additional money short term but banks and the silver ETF is where I am adding. In 50 + years I have never taken a position in gold but very soon I might pull the trigger.
Another day of red ink everywhere. Blood on the streets and much of it mine! Just sold a juicy premium out of the money bank put on a position I would like to grow. Nothing like a good selling panic to heighten the senses. Sell, sell, sell or buy, buy, buy who cares because you can't take it with you.
Yes---- I realize I am a sick man. ;)
Where are my blood pressure pills? I better take the whole bottle.
Quote from: justducky on March 05, 2020, 02:42:09 PM
Another day of red ink everywhere. Blood on the streets and much of it mine! Just sold a juicy premium out of the money bank put on a position I would like to grow. Nothing like a good selling panic to heighten the senses. Sell, sell, sell or buy, buy, buy who cares because you can't take it with you.
Yes---- I realize I am a sick man. ;)
Where are my blood pressure pills? I better take the whole bottle.
LOL! up down up down up down--is that the stock market or sex? :rotfl:
A quote from Jody Lawrence (commodity adviser) concerning the Coronavirus:
"My plan is to stay at home and sample my emergency beer and bourbon stockpile until we get the all clear!" :thumbsup: Good idea. I better get down to the liquor store and beef up my supply.
More coronavirus red ink. Its hard to find a market bottom when no one yet understands the extent of the problem.
This morning Joe Terranova sp? on CNBC speculated that the fed should try to stem the government bond yield decline by selling the 10 year instead of buying. Sting the market and remind folks that owning safe debt can cost you money. :o The goal being to avoid the unknown of negative rates. Maybe more later but back to Bradley-SIU.
My spouse's company has already lost 5 million in expected revenue due to conference and other hotel cancellations (they work in hotel management) and the expectation is it's just going to get worse and will lead to at the very least furloughs if not direct lay offs.
Quote from: crusader05 on March 06, 2020, 06:28:50 PM
My spouse's company has already lost 5 million in expected revenue due to conference and other hotel cancellations (they work in hotel management) and the expectation is it's just going to get worse and will lead to at the very least furloughs if not direct lay offs.
I participated in a banquet fundraiser earlier in the week with excellent weather. We may have been 10% short in attendance with no other logical explanation. Attendance decline for the Valley tournament was similarly virus related. I am not easily scared but I am worried. In fact everybody is worried.
Buy from the scared. Scale in, not just one buy today. Save some dry powder. Scale in every 10% move. This is fun.
This is a great buying opportunity for the S&P Index Fund which is down 15% YTD.
Buy with what you say? Always keep 50% in a bond index fund which can be used to buy during times like these. Load em up incrementally. Opportunities are available when the market goes down or up.
Sell too the greedy later after the market begins to be overbought. Scale out every 10% move.
Rinse and repeat.
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 09, 2020, 01:13:43 PMBuy from the scared. Scale in, not just one buy today. Save some dry powder. Scale in every 10% move. This is fun.
:thumbsup:
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 09, 2020, 01:13:43 PMThis is a great buying opportunity for the S&P Index Fund which is down 15% YTD.
Handpicking stock sectors or companies would be better (my opinion).
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 09, 2020, 01:13:43 PMAlways keep 50% in a bond index fund which can be used to buy during times like these.
If anybody has 50% in bonds then they are braver than me. This is where the next bust will happen. We have a 39 year bull market in bonds, a global bond bubble, spreading negative interest rates, trillion dollar current deficits (growing), little monetary stimulus availability, and a growing demand for an enormous fiscal spending program. So we need a fiscal stimulus at the same time as we have 3.5% unemployment? Uh--- have any of you recently bid local construction projects? Don't be surprised if they come in 40 to 50% above budgets and expectations. Is anybody worried about inflation instead of deflation? I'm worried about both.
Somehow very soon interest rates will suddenly bolt up as people start to realize that lending governments money with no real return is a fools bet. When that happens all existing intermediate to long term bonds will discount those newer higher rates by selling off as much as 20 to 60% depending on the issuer, the maturity, and where rates stabilize.
Bonds scare me more than stocks, more than housing, more than real estate and more than gold or silver. If I lose my shirt on these convictions then oh well---it wouldn't be the first time. ;)
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 09, 2020, 01:13:43 PMBuy from the scared. Scale in, not just one buy today. Save some dry powder. Scale in every 10% move. This is fun. This is a great buying opportunity for the S&P Index Fund which is down 15% YTD. Buy with what you say? Always keep 50% in a bond index fund which can be used to buy during times like these. Load em up incrementally. Opportunities are available when the market goes down or up. Sell too the greedy later after the market begins to be overbought. Scale out every 10% move. Rinse and repeat.
Quote from: justducky on March 09, 2020, 04:12:34 PMQuote from: Just Sayin on March 09, 2020, 01:13:43 PMBuy from the scared. Scale in, not just one buy today. Save some dry powder. Scale in every 10% move. This is fun.
:thumbsup:
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 09, 2020, 01:13:43 PMThis is a great buying opportunity for the S&P Index Fund which is down 15% YTD.
Handpicking stock sectors or companies would be better (my opinion). Quote from: Just Sayin on March 09, 2020, 01:13:43 PMAlways keep 50% in a bond index fund which can be used to buy during times like these.
If anybody has 50% in bonds then they are braver than me. This is where the next bust will happen. We have a 39 year bull market in bonds, a global bond bubble, spreading negative interest rates, trillion dollar current deficits (growing), little monetary stimulus availability, and a growing demand for an enormous fiscal spending program. So we need a fiscal stimulus at the same time as we have 3.5% unemployment? Uh--- have any of you recently bid local construction projects? Don't be surprised if they come in 40 to 50% above budgets and expectations. Is anybody worried about inflation instead of deflation? I'm worried about both. Somehow very soon interest rates will suddenly bolt up as people start to realize that lending governments money with no real return is a fools bet. When that happens all existing intermediate to long term bonds will discount those newer higher rates by selling off as much as 20 to 60% depending on the issuer, the maturity, and where rates stabilize. Bonds scare me more than stocks, more than housing, more than real estate and more than gold or silver. If I lose my shirt on these convictions then oh well---it wouldn't be the first time. ;)
Handpicking stocks is riskier and more costly (transaction costs) than investing in a low-cost index fund of the S&P 500. The stock market is a zero-sum game and for every winner there is a loser. Picking a limited amount of stocks often does not pay off as one would think. Nothing more frustrating owning the best quality stocks while the S&P goes up and those prime stock stagnate or go down. You can't beat the market consistently over the long haul. Transaction costs eat you up. No so with S&P Index Fund where you can transfer in and out cost-free.
One of the nice things about a bond index fund is that it is diversified. And when the market goes down, investors flock to safety in bonds, which raises their prices. So in a situation like what we are experiencing now, my bond fund is appreciating and I can buy more stocks at much lower prices. When the market turns around, I lock in the gains and buy back the bonds with profit. Doing this only when the market moves 10% one way or the other gives me a long-horizon way to time the market and benefit whether it goes up or down.
But I am a recovering day trader, worse than a recovering alcoholic.
How various allocations of stock and bond portfolios have performed:
https://personal.vanguard.com/us/insights/saving-investing/model-portfolio-allocations
My 50/50 allocation has done better than these averages because I time the market at 10% moves in either direction. It grows substantially more over time than just buy and hold or rebalance once a year to get back to the 50/50 allocation.
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 09, 2020, 06:23:14 PMOne of the nice things about a bond index fund is that it is diversified. And when the market goes down, investors flock to safety in bonds, which raises their prices.
In my take the global bond bubble bursts as deflation is replaced by higher coupon interest rates and infla-fla-fla-flation. Been so long since we've worried about that word that I can barely pronounce it. Meanwhile bonds will remain safe until suddenly they aren't safe and folks and funds carrying long maturity debt will be handed their heads. Like I said-- Trump should sell long term government bonds now to anybody who is willing to buy--particularly if they are Chinese.
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 09, 2020, 06:23:14 PMBut I am a recovering day trader, worse than a recovering alcoholic.
Agreed and we have some common ground. I got out of options because I couldn't fully control my speculative bent. So I worked my tail off doing it only to have my buy and hold accounts consistently outperform. Unfortunately I have reentered the options market but with a bit better discipline.
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 09, 2020, 06:53:24 PMHow various allocations of stock and bond portfolios have performed:
https://personal.vanguard.com/us/insights/saving-investing/model-portfolio-allocations
Caveat to all newcomers: That when too many people start doing things the same way the tendency is for it to no longer work. Worded differently---Just as soon as you find the key to success some SOB will change the lock! I think the lock to success in bond investing has already been changed.
Quote from: justducky on March 09, 2020, 10:54:17 PMCaveat to all newcomers: That when too many people start doing things the same way the tendency is for it to no longer work. Worded differently---Just as soon as you find the key to success some SOB will change the lock! I think the lock to success in bond investing has already been changed.
The market will go where it will go. I just follow it. High beta individual stocks typically rise more than the market, but not always. High beta individual stocks in technology will drop significantly more than the market. I choose to cling closely to Mr. Market. Less risk, reasonable return. Don't have to wait longer to recover from bad stock picking choices. Everyone makes those. It's a fool's errand to think one is smarter than the market. Strategies to protect one's portfolio in highly volatile markets so that one can beat Mr. Market only serve to make brokers rich and investors poor. Even if a very large percentage of investors invested in index funds, there would still be huge bets from speculators driving prices up and down. I just go where Mr. Market goes and save a ton of transaction dough and in the long run end up beating 90% of the geniuses out there who try and outfox the other geniuses who make them pay the transaction costs which sets them back behind Mr. Market.
And when bond prices drop, holding on to bonds provide superior returns from interest assuming you have a plan to reinvest in them - when they go down - with profits made on the stock market appreciation. Thus the 10% move strategy further buys bonds at lower prices and later sells them when the stock market tanks and investors flee to safety in bonds thus driving bond prices back up. Always buying low and selling high in both bonds and stocks. And stay away from risky junk bonds.
My strategy lets me sleep at night and provides opportunities when the market goes up or down. That's why I sleep like a baby during this downturn and act according to my plan. I am not worried one bit about my portfolio right now. The market could go down another 20% and I'm licking my chops for yet another opportunity to make money.
Coronavirus COVID-19 Global Cases by the Center for Systems Science and Engineering (CSSE) at Johns Hopkins University
https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
The Lutheran Basketball Association of America has cancelled its national tournament due to concerns of bringing middle school teams from all over the country to the Valparaiso University campus. I just received this news late this evening.
As I mentioned in previous posts to another thread, Valpo has been in the midst of making a series of difficult choices this week. The first decision I can report because it has now been made public is that the university is immediately suspending its overseas programs and recalling all students to the US.
Updated Indiana cases:
https://www.in.gov/isdh/28470.htm?utm_source=agency-website&utm_medium=&utm_campaign=&utm_term=&utm_content=
43 tests given seems ridiculously low
It is official, the CBI basketball tournament has been cancelled for this year due to health concerns.
Quote from: valpopal on March 11, 2020, 11:49:17 AMIt is official, the CBI basketball tournament has been cancelled for this year due to health concerns.
Darn. Millions of fans around the country are going to be really bummed about this. They so much look forward every year to watch and attend this exciting tournament. And just think about all of the television revenue that will be lost. It's a damn shame.
Quote from: crusader05 on March 11, 2020, 09:40:52 AM43 tests given seems ridiculously low
How do you know that?
New Cases Globally on the rise:
Open the graph on the bottom right to full screen to see the trends in new confirmed and new recovered cases:
https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
I self quarantined yesterday after coming down with a cough, fever and malaise. Better safe than sorry. Fortunately for me and unfortunately for you I have no reason to believe I have the virus so I will likely survive.
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 11, 2020, 02:47:53 PM
Quote from: crusader05 on March 11, 2020, 09:40:52 AM43 tests given seems ridiculously low
How do you know that?
I heard 1000 this morning. Don't know if that is accurate either. From CNBC some of the holdup is that our test kit approval process is slower because of our regulations. Might be a spot where red tape could be cut.
Another tax cut ( I think 300 billion was floated) doesn't sound like the best fiscal stimulus response. The Federal Reserve is tasked with maximum employment while maintaining price stability. Perhaps congress should vote the size while actual spending targets are determined by a bipartisan group of economists directed by the Chairman Powell and his directors.
We are now officially in a pandemic and the 11 year bull market is now dying or dead. At the same time our projected trillion dollar deficit will steadily march up closer to 2 trillion. Are you folks ok with that? Are you folks holding 5 year or longer US Treasuries?
I was thinking about doing a little stock bottom fishing today but fortunately I talked myself out of it. Maybe with prices this low I need more of the discipline Just Sayin employs.
It seems low because we know that this is contagious even when people are asymptomatic and that identification of those infected can help with containment. Other countries are doing massive drive up testing and it's been a pretty wildly reported story that we are way behind on testing
Quote from: FWalum on March 11, 2020, 12:42:43 AM
The Lutheran Basketball Association of America has cancelled its national tournament due to concerns of bringing middle school teams from all over the country to the Valparaiso University campus. I just received this news late this evening.
That's a terrible shame but certainly a necessary move. It also hurts Valpo a lot too both in recruiting students and monetarily.
Quote from: crusader05 on March 11, 2020, 05:29:48 PM
It seems low because we know that this is contagious even when people are asymptomatic and that identification of those infected can help with containment. Other countries are doing massive drive up testing and it's been a pretty wildly reported story that we are way behind on testing
I get that other countries are spiking but we are not. I think this will taper off and much of the fear and hysteria is irrational and overblown. I could be wrong but I don't expect things to get significantly worse than where we are now. Spring is around the corner and viruses typically don't spread in warmer weather. I think it's stupid for the NCAA to prohibit fan attendance at the dance. The likely outcome of this will be to cancel the tournament. Boneheaded and gutless decision by the president of the NCAA today.
The number of tests are low because we don't have them available, The bigger problem is our incredibly small budget for health in our country.
Quote from: vu72 on March 11, 2020, 06:42:23 PM
The number of tests are low because we don't have them available, The bigger problem is our incredibly small budget for health in our country.
The President has called for significant increases for dealing with this problem and congress is working on a funding bill.
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 11, 2020, 06:23:47 PMI think this will taper off and much of the fear and hysteria is irrational and overblown.
Because this is new we have zero immunity to it. Figures today said 80 to 150 million Americans will be stricken before this runs its course. I've heard 1% mortality at least for us in the highest risk categories.
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 11, 2020, 06:23:47 PMSpring is around the corner and viruses typically don't spread in warmer weather.
They believe or maybe are certain that this will not follow that pattern. Italy is a world outbreak hotspot (warm) while South Korea (cold) seems to be winning because they reacted quickly.
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 11, 2020, 06:23:47 PMI think it's stupid for the NCAA to prohibit fan attendance at the dance. The likely outcome of this will be to cancel the tournament. Boneheaded and gutless decision by the president of the NCAA today.
Or maybe they will look like cautious geniuses.
Quote from: justducky on March 11, 2020, 08:04:34 PMQuote from: Just Sayin on March 11, 2020, 06:23:47 PMI think this will taper off and much of the fear and hysteria is irrational and overblown.
Because this is new we have zero immunity to it. Figures today said 80 to 150 million Americans will be stricken before this runs its course. I've heard 1% mortality at least for us in the highest risk categories. Quote from: Just Sayin on March 11, 2020, 06:23:47 PMSpring is around the corner and viruses typically don't spread in warmer weather.
They believe or maybe are certain that this will not follow that pattern. Italy is a world outbreak hotspot (warm) while South Korea (cold) seems to be winning because they reacted quickly. Quote from: Just Sayin on March 11, 2020, 06:23:47 PMI think it's stupid for the NCAA to prohibit fan attendance at the dance. The likely outcome of this will be to cancel the tournament. Boneheaded and gutless decision by the president of the NCAA today.
Or maybe they will look like cautious geniuses.
Looking like a genius doesn't make you one.
NBA just suspended all future games... watching the Dallas game on ESPN... Mark Cuban is saying all the right things.
NBA suspending season.More details will be coming. A player tested positive. Tom Hanks and his wife tested positive in Australia! Somebody the president came in contact with tested positive or is quarantined.
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 11, 2020, 08:26:53 PMLooking like a genius doesn't make you one.
Not a genius but going forward I will be listening carefully to what VP Pence says and ignoring the president. Much better source of unbiased information.
Quote from: justducky on March 11, 2020, 09:15:31 PM
NBA suspending season.More details will be coming. A player tested positive. Tom Hanks and his wife tested positive in Australia! Somebody the president came in contact with tested positive or is quarantined.
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 11, 2020, 08:26:53 PMLooking like a genius doesn't make you one.
Not a genius but going forward I will be listening carefully to what VP Pence says and ignoring the president. Much better source of unbiased information.
What has the president said that bothers you?
Here is the transcript of tonight's address to the nation by the president.
https://factba.se/transcript/donald-trump-remarks-live-oval-office-coronavirus-march-11-2020
You can't find anything in there that you like Ducky? If not, you have a serious case of Trump Derangement Syndrome and you should self-quarantine.
Trump doesn't know what he's doing, and the Dems want people to die so they can blame it on Trump. Why does everything always center on silly political spin??? I get that it's an election year but come on.
The fact is we have some of the most brilliant minds anywhere in the world working on this. The administration is working diligently. The CDC, private medical research companies, university medical researchers, etc. are working diligently. Emergency funding is being appropriated by Congress. I think it's a great collaborative effort, and the last thing I'm concerned about is anyone's political affiliation.
https://twitter.com/BryanDFischer/status/1237968722217684992
As I hinted in a couple messages during the past week was likely to occur, Valparaiso University's decision to move classes online at least until April 12 has now gone public. https://www.valpo.edu/coronavirus/?fbclid=IwAR3W6LO_dPrkkQ_7N9Kj00rdlOAGT961aKuUd8dVthuiOMKaUVqY2hatGm4 (https://www.valpo.edu/coronavirus/?fbclid=IwAR3W6LO_dPrkkQ_7N9Kj00rdlOAGT961aKuUd8dVthuiOMKaUVqY2hatGm4)
In Indiana since yesterday, the number of people confirmed positive increased to 12 from 10.
St. Joseph County's first positive testing. 1
Noble County 1
In Indiana, the numbers have increased as follows
Total Confirmed Positive, From 10 to 12
New County: St. Joseph 1
Noble County: No Change 1
Adams County: No Change 1
Howard County: No change 1
Boone County: No change 1
Hendricks County: No change 2
Marion County: From 1 to 2
Johnson County: No change 3
Virtually every medically trained person I have spoken with, which include a number of family members, believes the actions in limiting large gatherings is warranted for a couple of reasons.
However, if you believe this is all an overreaction because you "just think" it is not that big of a deal (the virus that is) feel free to do so.
Worldwide Confirmed Positive:
To Date 3/12/20 5am:
Mainland China 80.9k
Other 46.9
Total 127.8k
Recovered 68.3k 53.4%
Deaths 4.7k .37% 3.7%
United States
Confirmed Positive: 1,323
Recovered 8 .01%
Deaths 38 .03% 2.87%
Quote from: JD24 on March 12, 2020, 10:57:55 AMVirtually every medically trained person I have spoken with, which include a number of family members, believes the actions in limiting large gatherings is warranted for a couple of reasons. However, if you believe this is all an overreaction because you "just think" it is not that big of a deal (the virus that is) feel free to do so.
I don't need your permission to do that. But thanks anyway.
38 deaths out of 1,323 cases is just under 3% not .03%
Quote from: M on March 12, 2020, 12:32:33 PM38 deaths out of 1,323 cases is just under 3% not .03%
Thanks, corrected. Didn't have my coffee this morning.
3 weeks ago, Italy had 3 confirmed cases of the virus. Today their medical facilities are completely overrun.
Some points in just the first few minutes:
- This is just beginning in the US and will unfold for months.
- He expects that when China finally relaxes social distancing measures, it will come back to some extent, like the influenza virus.
- Transmits very easily through the air.
- Infectious before you get sick, even highly infectious in some cases before a person knows they are sick.
- Best prelim data indicates at least 10x to 15x worse than flu
- Relates the story/warning of the Milan doctor that has been mentioned in some threads here (3:00)... they are having to decide who they have to let die. Even doctors that are sick still have to work if they don't have a severe cough or fever. They are seeing an alarming number of cases in the sub-40 age range that are horrible cases.
Quote from: JD24 on March 12, 2020, 02:22:28 PM3 weeks ago, Italy had 3 confirmed cases of the virus. Today their medical facilities are completely overrun. Some points in just the first few minutes: - This is just beginning in the US and will unfold for months. - He expects that when China finally relaxes social distancing measures, it will come back to some extent, like the influenza virus. - Transmits very easily through the air. - Infectious before you get sick, even highly infectious in some cases before a person knows they are sick. - Best prelim data indicates at least 10x to 15x worse than flu - Relates the story/warning of the Milan doctor that has been mentioned in some threads here (3:00)... they are having to decide who they have to let die. Even doctors that are sick still have to work if they don't have a severe cough or fever. They are seeing an alarming number of cases in the sub-40 age range that are horrible cases.
Italy should learn from South Korea. The U.S. response will look more like South Korea's response than Italy's.
Quote from: JD24 on March 12, 2020, 02:22:28 PMSome points in just the first few minutes:
- This is just beginning in the US and will unfold for months.
- He expects that when China finally relaxes social distancing measures, it will come back to some extent, like the influenza virus.
- Transmits very easily through the air.
- Infectious before you get sick, even highly infectious in some cases before a person knows they are sick.
- Best prelim data indicates at least 10x to 15x worse than flu
- Relates the story/warning of the Milan doctor that has been mentioned in some threads here (3:00)... they are having to decide who they have to let die. Even doctors that are sick still have to work if they don't have a severe cough or fever. They are seeing an alarming number of cases in the sub-40 age range that are horrible cases.
I am a little surprised that he said that it is transmitted through the air. As per the
CDC (and confirmed by my daughter who is a doctor at the Children's National Hospital) and I quote from the CDC:
"The virus is thought to spread mainly from person-to-person.
Between people who are in close contact with one another (within about 6 feet).
Through
respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs or sneezes.
These droplets can land in the mouths or noses of people who are nearby or possibly be inhaled into the lungs."
A lot of people are confused when the word "airborne" is used in conjunction with virus transmission. The virus still needs to travel on the medium of water/respiratory droplets. It is not just out there floating around in the air by itself.
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 12, 2020, 05:48:56 PMItaly should learn from South Korea. The U.S. response will look more like South Korea's response than Italy's.
Sure it will. If nearly not at all means more like.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51860529
QuoteDr Fauci acknowledged to a congressional hearing that the US faced particular difficulties with testing. "The idea of anybody getting it [testing] easily, the way people in other countries are doing it, we're not set up for that. I think it should be, but we're not."Quote
QuoteLawmakers who attended Thursday's health briefing said that there were also problems with the supply chain for testing kits, with stocks of cotton swabs and gloves running low.
And earlier this week, the director of the CDC told a congressional hearing: "There's not enough equipment, there's not enough people, there's not enough internal capacity."
"The truth is... we've underinvested in the public health labs." Quote
QuoteRepublican lawmakers have also expressed frustration, with one senator, James Lankford (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/12/coronavirus-testing-127016) saying: "We've got a long way to go to be able to get rapid, efficient testing."Mr Lankford added that it was "not accurate" when President Trump said everyone in the US who wanted to get tested could get one. Quote
Quote
The Atlantic, which is running a project to track the number of tests (https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2020/03/how-understand-your-states-coronavirus-numbers/607921/) being conducted, estimates about 8,000 people have been tested. Meanwhile, lawmakers who went to a briefing (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/12/coronavirus-testing-127016) with health officials told Politico that fewer than 10,000 Americans had been tested.
By contrast, South Korea has tested more than 210,000 people and is testing nearly 20,000 people every day, while in the UK, more than 29,700 people have been tested, and more than 1,000 tests are being carried out per day.Quote
Blame whomever you wish but the thought that this is anything close to what's happened in South Korea is laughable.
Alex Azar tells a different story. Testing is getting better every day. CDC invented a test two weeks after China incident. Private sector getting involved. Things aren't as bad as you trump haters would like us to believe. The system we have was not ready and the same thing would have happened to the Obama administration. But trump has taken decisive action and is doing all that he can to get ahead of the curve.
From today's South Bend Tribune:
QuoteIn the U.S., influenza has caused 12,000 to 61,000 deaths annually since 2010, according to the CDC. So far this season, there have been at least 34 million flu illnesses, 350,000 hospitalizations and 20,000 deaths from flu. At least 136 of those deaths were in children.
By comparison, about 1,300 people in 45 states and Washington, D.C., had tested positive for coronavirus as of Thursday afternoon, according to a New York Times database, with at least 38 deaths. But the numbers are expected to grow and the pace of diagnosis has quickened significantly in recent weeks.
How long does the virus live on an object?
Depending on the type of surface, the virus can stay on surfaces for a few hours or up to several days, according to the WHO. A recent study by scientists in the U.S. found that viable virus could be detected up to three hours later in the air, up to four hours on copper, up to 24 hours on cardboard and up to two to three days on plastic and stainless steel.
It's possible that you can become infected if you touch your face after touching a surface or object that has the virus on it, according to the CDC. But scientists don't think surfaces are the main way that the virus spreads; the most common form of infection is from respiratory droplets spread by a person's cough or sneeze. The virus can also be transmitted by close personal contact, such as touching or shaking hands, with an infected person.
https://twitter.com/US_FDA/status/1238178287391772675
https://twitter.com/HHSGov/status/1237794169822810121
The numbers we see in Indiana and in the US for testing are significantly understated because labs such as Quest are not required to report their testing to the CDC.
Testing in the U.S.
Updated March 12, 2020
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/testing-in-us
(https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/images/lab-data-graph.png)
From Healthline:
QuoteUntil recently, all samples collected from patients who met the COVID-19 testing criteria were sent to public health labsd operated by state authorities or the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).
But over the weekend, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA)Trusted Source gave the green light to outside labs to design and conduct their own validated tests for the virus.
Now more than 70 public health labs across all 50 states and the District of Columbia are offering COVID-19 testing, reported Scott Becker, CEO of the Association of Public Health Laboratories, on Monday.
Several private labs have also begun to offer testing or have announced plans to begin testing soon. These include LabCorp and Quest Diagnostics — two of the largest clinical testing providers in the country.
According to The Seattle Times, the Gates Foundation is also funding the development of a home testing kit. The kit would allow individuals to swab their own noses at home and send the swabs to a lab for analysis.
During a White House briefing on Monday, FDA Commissioner Stephen Hahn announced that labs across the country would have the materials needed to perform "close to 1 million" COVID-19 tests by the end of this week.
Just Sayin - millions are depressed because of the CIT? Are you serious in the grand scheme of things?
Quote from: usc4valpo on March 13, 2020, 06:05:15 AMJust Sayin - millions are depressed because of the CIT? Are you serious in the grand scheme of things?
Sarcasm
Increases Since Yesterday Morning
Globally
Confirmed +8722
Deaths +340
Recovered +1340
United States
Confirmed +380
Deaths +2
Recovered +4
No change in Indiana's numbers today.
S&P down 23% year-to-date. Yeehaw. There's some fire-sale individual stock bargains out there now. (Although I would simply purchase more of the S&P Index Fund) Buy from the scared. After it recovers and spikes back up, sell to the greedy with bigger profits earned from buying from the scared.
I have been licking my chops to buy but am restrained by frequent trading time restrictions, which end this Tuesday. Then I'm loading up the truck.
https://twitter.com/SteveFDA/status/1238450460459241473
https://twitter.com/senatemajldr/status/1238231958129442818
https://twitter.com/SenatorFischer/status/1238232319456153604
Stock market up at open. Dead cat bounce?
Things are just swell.
LOL!
LOL, let the good times roll!
It's a virus, not the end of the world.
This is panic-driven hysteria and overblown fear.
From Live Science:
QuoteIn the study published Feb. 18 in the China CDC Weekly, researchers found a death rate from COVID-19 to be around 2.3% in mainland China. Another study of about 1,100 hospitalized patients in China, published Feb. 28 in the New England Journal of Medicine, found that the overall death rate was slightly lower, around 1.4%.
Still, the death rate for COVID-19 appears to vary by location and an individual's age, among other factors. For instance, in Hubei Province, the epicenter of the outbreak, the death rate reached 2.9%; in other provinces of China, that rate was just 0.4%, according to the China CDC Weekly study. In addition, older adults have been hit the hardest. The death rate soars to 14.8% in those 80 and older;
among those ages 70 to 79, the COVID-19 death rate in China seems to be about 8%;
it's 3.6% for those ages 60 to 69;
1.3% for 50 to 59;
0.4% for the age group 40 to 49;
and just 0.2% for people ages 10 to 39.
No deaths in children under 9 have been reported.
We're not all going to die people. College students have a .2% mortality rate. That's about the same as the flu. Did we cancel the tournament because of the flu? Calm down. The tournament should never have been cancelled.
If anyone should be worried, it's old farts like myself. Just don't let old farts buy tickets to the dance.
There is always something good which comes out of a crisis.
https://twitter.com/dcexaminer/status/1238248019243524102
https://twitter.com/AriFleischer/status/1238481788718272514
Can't believe CNN would do such a thing. The most trusted name in "news."
https://twitter.com/davidharsanyi/status/1238453328067125248
Sharyl Attkisson, the voice of reason in this country, not following the massive crowd of panicked lemmings who are jumping over the cliff.
QuoteCoronavirus is nothing to sneeze at. But so far, widespread panic may not be justified.
You should know:
Almost all of the reported coronavirus deaths in the U.S. happened in long-term care facilities in Washington State. And almost all of those occurred at the same facility.
Most people who get coronavirus have mild or no symptoms.
No young or middle-age people have died of coronavirus in the U.S.
Most around the world diagnosed from January-March 1 have already recovered.
Well worth reading. Sleep better at night.
Entire Article:
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/health/coronavirus-facts-vs-panic
QuoteQ: Why have there been so many coronavirus deaths in Italy?
A: Italy has reported 827 coronavirus deaths. Experts say the high number is partly because Italy has more residents in the vulnerable age category. Italy has the oldest population in Europe and more elderly per capita than the U.S. Most of the Italian deaths are in patients in their 80s and 90s. In addition, Italy has a great number of direct China contacts. Italy was the first to join China's "silk road" economic partnership project. The coronavirus is believed to have originated in China. Italy's 827 deaths are out of a population of 60 million people. Even though one death is too many, it is still a small relative number.
NEWS OLD FARTS CAN USE:
https://twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1238254166230872066
If it's an overreaction then Trump is leading the overreaction effort. He is expected to declare a National Emergency shortly.
Trump will be speaking again soon. His last speech was met by a vote of no confidence selling.
I am strongly leaning toward additional buying (stock-but definitely not bond) but it is in spite of Trump and not because of him. Maybe I'll pull the trigger after listen to him again either because or in spite of what he says.
Carl Icahn went into a 20 minute ramble on CNBC. He has spotted some REIT high yield insurers that sound a bit like the Ambac and MBIA's of 2008. Interesting.
12 years into a bull market recovery with projected trillion dollar deficits before additional tax cuts is not how this is supposed to work. Anybody want to take a bet that this deficit doubles by a year out?
As for coronavirus a bunch of us working together got sick then better under similar time frames. The testing that was done was positive----for influenza. I am optimistic we can somewhat contain this but the vaccine is the answer.
More later, Pelosi is taking her turn now.
Quote from: justducky on March 13, 2020, 01:09:47 PM
Trump will be speaking again soon. His last speech was met by a vote of no confidence selling.
I am strongly leaning toward additional buying (stock-but definitely not bond) but it is in spite of Trump and not because of him. Maybe I'll pull the trigger after listen to him again either because or in spite of what he says.
Carl Icahn went into a 20 minute ramble on CNBC. He has spotted some REIT high yield insurers that sound a bit like the Ambac and MBIA's of 2008. Interesting.
12 years into a bull market recovery with projected trillion dollar deficits before additional tax cuts is not how this is supposed to work. Anybody want to take a bet that this deficit doubles by a year out?
As for coronavirus a bunch of us working together got sick then better under similar time frames. The testing that was done was positive----for influenza. I am optimistic we can somewhat contain this but the vaccine is the answer.
More later, Pelosi is taking her turn now.
Trump's team is working on a vaccine.
Trump is declaring a national emergency which will give him the authority to get more funds to help solve the problem without having to kiss Pelosi's or Schumer's ass. He can act more swiftly to get the funds quickly to where they are most needed. Meanwhile Nancy Pelosi is sneaking in the funding for abortions in the emergency bill to deal with the virus. She is a despicable woman as are most democrats in Congress.
Quote from: justducky on March 13, 2020, 01:09:47 PM
Trump will be speaking again soon. His last speech was met by a vote of no confidence selling.
I am strongly leaning toward additional buying (stock-but definitely not bond) but it is in spite of Trump and not because of him. Maybe I'll pull the trigger after listen to him again either because or in spite of what he says.
Carl Icahn went into a 20 minute ramble on CNBC. He has spotted some REIT high yield insurers that sound a bit like the Ambac and MBIA's of 2008. Interesting.
12 years into a bull market recovery with projected trillion dollar deficits before additional tax cuts is not how this is supposed to work. Anybody want to take a bet that this deficit doubles by a year out?
As for coronavirus a bunch of us working together got sick then better under similar time frames. The testing that was done was positive----for influenza. I am optimistic we can somewhat contain this but the vaccine is the answer.
More later, Pelosi is taking her turn now.
Buying now is smart. Waiting until Trump speaks in anticipation of the stock market going down could backfire on you. The old adage buy on the rumor and sell on the news may apply here. Or expecting the market to go down after a speech just because it went down after Trump's last speech is risky. Better to buy some before the speech and some after the speech. But that's a day trader mentality. I don't do that anymore. I'm all in on Tuesday regardless of where the market is because I follow my rules. Trying to outsmart the market based on events is a fool's errand.
Quote from: vu72 on March 13, 2020, 01:01:00 PM
If it's an overreaction then Trump is leading the overreaction effort. He is expected to declare a National Emergency shortly.
Everybody is overreacting. Congress, the Senate, the media, schools, the NCAA, Trump, and other politicians. No one wants to look as though they don't care.
Just because I think they are panic-driven and overreacting doesn't mean I think nothing should be done.
....or perhaps the recommendation is separate and test.
Also much in the way of Fiduciary response.
It's all good.
QuoteCoronavirus curve shows much of Europe could face Italy-like surge within weeks
BERLIN — Some of the world's top experts tracking the spread of the coronavirus predict that in a matter of weeks, much of Europe could be facing a similar surge in cases that has locked down Italy, overwhelmed its hospitals in the north and brought the country of 60 million to a standstill.
Mathematical models developed by epidemiologists to track the virus show a sharp trajectory of infections in Spain, Germany, France and Britain. Spain, which declared a state of emergency on Friday, showed particularly concerning exponential growth, some experts said.
The modelers in Europe say a similar arc is likely in the United States, but anticipating the spread is made more difficult by the lack of widespread testing of suspected cases there. U.S. officials are working with 50 academic modeling groups across the country, The Washington Post reported, but no projections have been publicly released by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention or the White House coronavirus task force.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...760_story.html
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 13, 2020, 01:17:56 PMQuote from: justducky on March 13, 2020, 01:09:47 PMTrump will be speaking again soon. His last speech was met by a vote of no confidence selling. I am strongly leaning toward additional buying (stock-but definitely not bond) but it is in spite of Trump and not because of him. Maybe I'll pull the trigger after listen to him again either because or in spite of what he says. Carl Icahn went into a 20 minute ramble on CNBC. He has spotted some REIT high yield insurers that sound a bit like the Ambac and MBIA's of 2008. Interesting. 12 years into a bull market recovery with projected trillion dollar deficits before additional tax cuts is not how this is supposed to work. Anybody want to take a bet that this deficit doubles by a year out? As for coronavirus a bunch of us working together got sick then better under similar time frames. The testing that was done was positive----for influenza. I am optimistic we can somewhat contain this but the vaccine is the answer. More later, Pelosi is taking her turn now.
Trump's team is working on a vaccine. Trump is declaring a national emergency which will give him the authority to get more funds to help solve the problem without having to kiss Pelosi's or Schumer's ass. He can act more swiftly to get the funds quickly to where they are most needed. Meanwhile Nancy Pelosi is sneaking in the funding for abortions in the emergency bill to deal with the virus. She is a despicable woman as are most democrats in Congress.
Why would you need emergency funds or funds of any kind for a hoax?
To assist states and local governments in their efforts to protect their citizens. And to get it to them in a timely fashion. So he is not constrained by the slow-waking despicable democrats who hold the purse strings. Trump now has a pen and a phone.
Quote from: JD24 on March 13, 2020, 02:23:00 PM
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 13, 2020, 01:17:56 PMQuote from: justducky on March 13, 2020, 01:09:47 PMTrump will be speaking again soon. His last speech was met by a vote of no confidence selling. I am strongly leaning toward additional buying (stock-but definitely not bond) but it is in spite of Trump and not because of him. Maybe I'll pull the trigger after listen to him again either because or in spite of what he says. Carl Icahn went into a 20 minute ramble on CNBC. He has spotted some REIT high yield insurers that sound a bit like the Ambac and MBIA's of 2008. Interesting. 12 years into a bull market recovery with projected trillion dollar deficits before additional tax cuts is not how this is supposed to work. Anybody want to take a bet that this deficit doubles by a year out? As for coronavirus a bunch of us working together got sick then better under similar time frames. The testing that was done was positive----for influenza. I am optimistic we can somewhat contain this but the vaccine is the answer. More later, Pelosi is taking her turn now.
Trump's team is working on a vaccine. Trump is declaring a national emergency which will give him the authority to get more funds to help solve the problem without having to kiss Pelosi's or Schumer's ass. He can act more swiftly to get the funds quickly to where they are most needed. Meanwhile Nancy Pelosi is sneaking in the funding for abortions in the emergency bill to deal with the virus. She is a despicable woman as are most democrats in Congress.
Why would you need emergency funds or funds of any kind for a hoax?
Who said it was a hoax?
https://twitter.com/TheBabylonBee/status/1238525305247186945
https://twitter.com/TheBabylonBee/status/1238547889938477058
https://twitter.com/HawleyMO/status/1238566383186776065
Time to rename this entire section of the site to Just Sayin talks to himself.
Sometimes to you.
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 13, 2020, 03:47:55 PM
To assist states and local governments in their efforts to protect their citizens. And to get it to them in a timely fashion. So he is not constrained by the slow-waking despicable democrats who hold the purse strings. Trump now has a pen and a phone.
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 13, 2020, 11:18:28 AMIf anyone should be worried, it's old farts like myself. Just don't let old farts buy tickets to the dance.
That rules out many of the parents and grandparents of the student athletes. Does it not?
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 13, 2020, 03:59:33 PMWho said it was a hoax?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/five-times-the-trump-administration-downplayed-the-coronavirus-2020-3%3famp
From claiming Democrats were making the coronavirus "their new hoax" to saying "it will go away" President Donald Trump, the chosen one, has consistently tried to downplay the severity of the outbreak.
Quote from: vu72 on March 13, 2020, 06:25:57 PMQuote from: Just Sayin on March 13, 2020, 03:47:55 PMTo assist states and local governments in their efforts to protect their citizens. And to get it to them in a timely fashion. So he is not constrained by the slow-waking despicable democrats who hold the purse strings. Trump now has a pen and a phone.
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Facts are stubborn things.
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 13, 2020, 09:10:09 PM
Quote from: vu72 on March 13, 2020, 06:25:57 PMQuote from: Just Sayin on March 13, 2020, 03:47:55 PMTo assist states and local governments in their efforts to protect their citizens. And to get it to them in a timely fashion. So he is not constrained by the slow-waking despicable democrats who hold the purse strings. Trump now has a pen and a phone.
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Facts are stubborn things.
Now who didn't get the sarcasm?
Just Sayin Nonsense
My sister lives in Broomfield CO, a suburb of Denver. On Wed. she was driving to the food store and noticed that traffic was unusually heavy for the middle of the day. When she arrived at Whole Foods, the parking lot was jammed, and later when she made her daily stop at Starbucks, the car line stretched around the building and looked busy inside. She thought what's up with this; it felt more like Sat. than Wed. Finally, she realized that the difference had to be the thousands of people "working" remotely who would normally be at the office.
The irony is, of course, that these telecommuters were at greater risk of contracting the virus by mixing in crowded public settings than had they just stayed in their cube at work. As an aside, it doesn't speak well for "on the job" productivity either. Of course, if you were to ask them, they would all say they were going to make up that time later in the day. ::)
Increases Since Yesterday Morning
Globally
Confirmed +12456
Deaths +558
Recovered +2073
United States
Confirmed +474
Deaths +7
Recovered +0
Indiana
Confirmed +3
Deaths 0
Recovered Not Reported
Counties +3 (Newly reported: LaPorte County +1; Wells County +1)
Marion County +1
Who is dying from the coronavirus in the United States? Thus far, it's mostly the elderly. Why? Because the elderly, especially those with health problems, have weaker immune systems.
Below quote from
Sharyl Attkisson, Justthenews.com, as of yesterday.
QuoteAs Americans spend their first full day under a presidentially declared national state of emergency, many are wondering about the profile of those who have succumbed to the coronavirus so far.
The number of U.S. deaths has been growing since the first one reported in Washington state on Feb. 29. The victim's name was not released, nor were details of his circumstances. But officials said he lived in King County, was in his 50s, and had "underlying health conditions."
As of Friday, the total number of U.S. deaths attributed to coronavirus stood at 48. All but 11 of the deaths were in Washington state.
Of the total deaths reported through March 13, more than half (25) were from the Life Care Center nursing facility in Kirkland, Wash., where a serious outbreak occurred.
U.S. health officials said the early pattern of deaths suggests those most at risk are the elderly and those with more serious health issues like diabetes, lung disease or coronary ailments.
"If you are an elderly person with an underlying condition, if you get infected, the risk of getting into trouble is considerable. So it's our responsibility to protect the vulnerable," Dr. Anthony Fauci, America's top infectious disease expert, declared recently.
For the latest government information, visit CDC.gov. In the meantime, here are more details on the first 48 U.S. coronavirus deaths.
Thirty-seven deaths (77% of total) are in Washington state.
Newly reported on March 13, 2020
Two women in their 90s at Life Care Center died on March 6.
A woman in her 80s at Life Care Center died on March 6.
A man in his 70s at Overlake Medical Center died on March 4.
A man in his 80s at Swedish Issaquah hospital, died on March 9.
Woman in her 70s with underlying health conditions died on March 11.
Four Washington state deaths are from Snohomish County
A woman in her 70s with underlying health conditions died March 11.
Woman in her 80s with underlying health conditions died March 10.
Man in his 80s with underlying health conditions, died March 9 at the Josephine Caring Community
A man in his 40s with underlying health conditions died but the date has not been specified.
One Washington State death is from Grant County, a patient in his or her 80s.
Four deaths are in California:
A woman, 90s, in assisted living.
A woman, 60s, hospitalized in Santa Clara.
An elderly man in assisted living.
A man, 71, with underlying health conditions who had been on a Grand Princess cruise ship.
Two deaths are in Florida:
A man and woman, both in their 70s, died after returning from foreign travel.
One death is in New Jersey:
A man, 69, who is diabetic and suffered two cardiac arrests, has died.
One death is in South Dakota:
A man in his 60s with underlying medical conditions has died.
One death is in Georgia:
A man, 67, with underlying medical conditions has died.
One death is in Kansas:
A man in his 70s with underlying health conditions died at the Life Care Center in Kansas City.
One death in is Colorado:
A woman in her 80s with underlying health conditions has died.
Are we heading in the same direction and at the same rate as Italy as this doctor's post suggests? I don't know but I doubt it. The president's bold and decisive actions have made that highly unlikely:
https://twitter.com/bpcmd1/status/1238840811774713856
"The haters will never admit it, but Trump's ability to meet the moment now [response to Coronavirus] is a reminder about why he was elected and how he has managed to guide the great American jobs machine to unprecedented heights. The only mystery is why supposedly intelligent people on the left refuse to acknowledge that millions of their fellow citizens are better off now than they were four years ago." Michael Goodwin
https://twitter.com/COVID2019tests/status/1238852343787118592/photo/1
https://twitter.com/JEdward02/status/1239005661108809729
https://twitter.com/ValaAfshar/status/1238828741410906118?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1238828741410906118&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fsharylattkisson.com%2F2020%2F03%2Fa-coronavirus-quarantine-musical-interlude%2F
Increases Since Yesterday Morning
Globally
Confirmed +8562
Deaths +294
Recovered +2250
Cumulative Recovery Rate 46.48%
United States
Confirmed +777
Deaths +10
Recovered +0
Indiana Added Since Yesterday Morning
Confirmed 0
Deaths 0
Recovered Not Reported
Counties 0
Daily totals of new positive confirmations spiked worldwide 16,200 Friday and 11,600 yesterday. Friday's spike surpassed the Feb. 13th spike of 15,100, likely the China spike.
China is having very few new confirmations and is leveling off. The spike is coming from countries other than China, particularly from Europe and the Middle East.
In response to the spike the president has extended the travel ban to include these countries. Good move. Joe Biden thinks it's a bad move.
Coronavirus Nightmare Could Be the End for Europe's Borderless Dream
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/02/26/world/europe/coronavirus-european-union.amp.html%3f0p19G=0038
Hillary Clinton May 2013 speech to the Brazilian bank Banco Itau
"My dream is a hemispheric common market, with open trade and open borders, some time in the future with energy that is as green and sustainable as we can get it, powering growth and opportunity for every person in the Hemisphere."
From Karl Marx to the Frankfort School to the EU to Hillary Clinton, Sanders, and AOC. Regressive, controlling, on the wrong side of history.
We still have thousands of illegals crossing the border into the U.S. If democrats had their way, borders would be completely open.
Now that we have the threat of the coronavirus, why aren't democrats calling for testing illegals who cross our southern border? Could it be that they are willing to sacrifice the lives of Americans so that they can further their political goals of making illegals dependent on the government and voting for democrats?
Wouldn't surprise me.
Remember Kavanaugh.
Remember Adam Schiff.
Remember phony impeachment.
Nobody hates like a democrat.
Are you kidding? The Democrat party is a fanatical godless religion that expects unwavering adherence to its satanic tenants of faith. We will tell you what to think and how to feel. And the faithful said, Hail Almighty Satan!"
https://twitter.com/SharylAttkisson/status/1239342012874264581
Quote from: wh on March 15, 2020, 02:36:11 PM
Are you kidding? The Democrat party is a fanatical godless religion that expects unwavering adherence to its satanic tenants of faith. We will tell you what to think and how to feel. And the faithful said, Hail Almighty Satan!"
To all who may read this thread and the other postings of wh:
This person does not, in any way, represent Valparaiso University. As illustrated by this post and previous posts, wh lacks psychological maturity and sanity to hold any leadership position and, to my knowledge, does not hold such a position with the university. if at any time i were to learn that wh was serving or being considered for a leadership position, I would forward this person's posts to the appropriate people to insure they would see wh's character is clearly known. This person, of course, would be fully welcome to forward any and all posts that I have made.
:rotfl:
Increases Since Yesterday Morning
Globally
Confirmed +12987....Cumulative 169387
Deaths +680.........................................6513
Recovered +3289................................77257
Recovery Rate: .............................46.44%
United States
Confirmed +822.................................3774
Deaths +12...............................................69
Recovered +0...........................................12
Indiana
Confirmed +4..........................................19
Deaths 0.....................................................0
Recovered Not Reported
Counties +4 (Newly reported: Hamilton County +1)
Marion County +3....................................6
Total Tested +32....................................121
Yesterday for the first time the cumulative total confirmed worldwide other than China exceeds China's total confirmed positive.
China: 81000
Other than China: 88400
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 15, 2020, 09:36:24 PM
Quote from: wh on March 15, 2020, 02:36:11 PM
Are you kidding? The Democrat party is a fanatical godless religion that expects unwavering adherence to its satanic tenants of faith. We will tell you what to think and how to feel. And the faithful said, Hail Almighty Satan!"
To all who may read this thread and the other postings of wh:
This person does not, in any way, represent Valparaiso University. As illustrated by this post and previous posts, wh lacks psychological maturity and sanity to hold any leadership position and, to my knowledge, does not hold such a position with the university. if at any time i were to learn that wh was serving or being considered for a leadership position, I would forward this person's posts to the appropriate people to insure they would see wh's character is clearly known. This person, of course, would be fully welcome to forward any and all posts that I have made.
How perfectly Communist of you to threaten to destroy someone's career because you're offended by their criticism of your political party. And thanks for proving my point, "The Democrat party is a fanatical godless religion that expects unwavering adherence to its satanic tenants of faith. We will tell you what to think and how to feel."
Chinese tycoon vanishes after calling Xi a 'clown,' slamming government's handling of COVID-19https://www.foxnews.com/world/high-profile-chinese-tycoon-missing-after-calling-president-xi-jinping-a-clown
The only difference between destroying someone's career and killing them for harshly criticizing your political party is degree. The principle is identical, evil, and anti-American.
Quote from: wh on March 16, 2020, 08:52:20 AMQuote from: vu84v2 on March 15, 2020, 09:36:24 PMQuote from: wh on March 15, 2020, 02:36:11 PMAre you kidding? The Democrat party is a fanatical godless religion that expects unwavering adherence to its satanic tenants of faith. We will tell you what to think and how to feel. And the faithful said, Hail Almighty Satan!"
To all who may read this thread and the other postings of wh: This person does not, in any way, represent Valparaiso University. As illustrated by this post and previous posts, wh lacks psychological maturity and sanity to hold any leadership position and, to my knowledge, does not hold such a position with the university. if at any time i were to learn that wh was serving or being considered for a leadership position, I would forward this person's posts to the appropriate people to insure they would see wh's character is clearly known. This person, of course, would be fully welcome to forward any and all posts that I have made.
How perfectly Communist of you to threaten to destroy someone's career because you're offended by their criticism of your political party. And thanks for proving my point, "The Democrat party is a fanatical godless religion that expects unwavering adherence to its satanic tenants of faith. We will tell you what to think and how to feel." Chinese tycoon vanishes after calling Xi a 'clown,' slamming government's handling of COVID-19 https://www.foxnews.com/world/high-profile-chinese-tycoon-missing-after-calling-president-xi-jinping-a-clown The only difference between destroying someone's career and killing them for harshly criticizing your political party is degree. The principle is identical, evil, and anti-American.
Who would give a crap what vu84v2 says? Typical arrogant and condescending liberal who seems to make megalomaniacal comments towards those with whom he strongly disagrees. True colors of a tyrannical liberal.
Quote from: wh on March 16, 2020, 08:52:20 AM
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 15, 2020, 09:36:24 PM
Quote from: wh on March 15, 2020, 02:36:11 PM
Are you kidding? The Democrat party is a fanatical godless religion that expects unwavering adherence to its satanic tenants of faith. We will tell you what to think and how to feel. And the faithful said, Hail Almighty Satan!"
To all who may read this thread and the other postings of wh:
This person does not, in any way, represent Valparaiso University. As illustrated by this post and previous posts, wh lacks psychological maturity and sanity to hold any leadership position and, to my knowledge, does not hold such a position with the university. if at any time i were to learn that wh was serving or being considered for a leadership position, I would forward this person's posts to the appropriate people to insure they would see wh's character is clearly known. This person, of course, would be fully welcome to forward any and all posts that I have made.
How perfectly Communist of you to threaten to destroy someone's career because you're offended by their criticism of your political party. And thanks for proving my point, "The Democrat party is a fanatical godless religion that expects unwavering adherence to its satanic tenants of faith. We will tell you what to think and how to feel."
Chinese tycoon vanishes after calling Xi a 'clown,' slamming government's handling of COVID-19
https://www.foxnews.com/world/high-profile-chinese-tycoon-missing-after-calling-president-xi-jinping-a-clown
The only difference between destroying someone's career and killing them for harshly criticizing your political party is degree. The principle is identical, evil, and anti-American.
Having opinions across the spectrum of political beliefs and being able to express them is critical to a free society. Calling people satanists, saying that you would rejoice if leaders whom you disagree with were to tragically die, or any of the other similar statements that you have made in the past on this page are something very different - they suggest that you may be a psychopath or have other serious clinical psychological derangement. Someone who exhibits these psychological traits in making their arguments, regardless of where they fall on the political spectrum, should not be in a leadership position and do not represent this university.
De Blasio urges 'nationalization' of key industries, calls coronavirus outbreak a 'war-like situation'
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/de-blasio-calls-for-feds-to-take-over-industries-calls-outbreak-a-war-like-situation
"Never Allow a Crisis to Go to Waste: Barack Obama and the Evolution of American Socialism"
Book by Bart Depalma
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 16, 2020, 09:23:49 AM
Quote from: wh on March 16, 2020, 08:52:20 AM
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 15, 2020, 09:36:24 PM
Quote from: wh on March 15, 2020, 02:36:11 PM
Are you kidding? The Democrat party is a fanatical godless religion that expects unwavering adherence to its satanic tenants of faith. We will tell you what to think and how to feel. And the faithful said, Hail Almighty Satan!"
To all who may read this thread and the other postings of wh:
This person does not, in any way, represent Valparaiso University. As illustrated by this post and previous posts, wh lacks psychological maturity and sanity to hold any leadership position and, to my knowledge, does not hold such a position with the university. if at any time i were to learn that wh was serving or being considered for a leadership position, I would forward this person's posts to the appropriate people to insure they would see wh's character is clearly known. This person, of course, would be fully welcome to forward any and all posts that I have made.
How perfectly Communist of you to threaten to destroy someone's career because you're offended by their criticism of your political party. And thanks for proving my point, "The Democrat party is a fanatical godless religion that expects unwavering adherence to its satanic tenants of faith. We will tell you what to think and how to feel."
Chinese tycoon vanishes after calling Xi a 'clown,' slamming government's handling of COVID-19
https://www.foxnews.com/world/high-profile-chinese-tycoon-missing-after-calling-president-xi-jinping-a-clown
The only difference between destroying someone's career and killing them for harshly criticizing your political party is degree. The principle is identical, evil, and anti-American.
Having opinions across the spectrum of political beliefs and being able to express them is critical to a free society. Calling people satanists, saying that you would rejoice if leaders whom you disagree with were to tragically die, or any of the other similar statements that you have made in the past on this page are something very different - they suggest that you may be a psychopath or have other serious clinical psychological derangement. Someone who exhibits these psychological traits in making their arguments, regardless of where they fall on the political spectrum, should not be in a leadership position and do not represent this university.
Nice programmed response, Mr. Robot. You are so lost.
wh - It is quite notable that your responses do not state that I have misinterpreted your prior postings.
https://twitter.com/richholland4/status/1239308195958571012
Coronavirus and the daily trade and traffic from Mexicohttps://sharylattkisson.com/2020/03/watch-coronavirus-and-the-daily-trade-and-traffic-from-mexico/
QuoteIt's been said that diseases know no border. As the US grapples with its coronavirus response, one outstanding question is how to handle the daily back and forth trade and tourism between the US, and Mexico and Canada. I spoke with Congressman Henry Cuellar, a Texas democrat whose district includes the border town of Laredo.
Rep. Henry Cuellar: Let me just give you a snapshot. Laredo, Texas, 14,000 trailers a day crossing north and southbound. Number one in trucks, number one in trains, 24 trains that cross north and south. We get about 150 buses. People that will cross over, go to the malls, go to the restaurants, hotels and all that, interchanging with our folks. Not saying that there's anything wrong with Mexico, but I'm just saying what do you do when there is a large number of crossings? Are the men and women at the frontline ready to one, make sure that they're protected? Two, are they able to detect, are there medical folks that they have here?
Quote from: M on March 13, 2020, 05:03:10 PMTime to rename this entire section of the site to Just Sayin talks to himself.
Months ago I proposed a monthly breakfast club meeting where we can better discuss our differences with the greatest danger being getting some runny egg on our faces. That offer still stands (I'll buy first time) with the warning that I am a crude and sometimes rude country boy who will take vocal maybe profane exception to some of the nonsense many of you accept as fact. Forewarned that I have called myself a radical centrist because the self righteous left and right now smuggly sit with all the answers and contempt for differing opinion.
I had some stock bid offers in Friday that thankfully did not take. In anticipation of another big coronavirus selloff I decided to sleep in this morning. The worst is yet to come.
Bigger picture, worst case, bright side----Nothing would be better for the planet than a large number of the human population dying off. I have a better understanding of and empathy for the natural world in contrast to those of us who have subjugated it.
If I have to die do I get to choose one of you to go with me? ::) That could be fun although spending eternity with some of you could get old pretty quick.
Quote from: justducky on March 16, 2020, 02:29:32 PMTime to rename this entire section of the site to Just Sayin talks to himself.
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
https://twitter.com/newtgingrich/status/1239607124843474945
https://twitter.com/TheBabylonBee/status/1239612642467164163
Quote from: justducky on March 16, 2020, 02:29:32 PM
Quote from: M on March 13, 2020, 05:03:10 PMTime to rename this entire section of the site to Just Sayin talks to himself.
Months ago I proposed a monthly breakfast club meeting where we can better discuss our differences with the greatest danger being getting some runny egg on our faces. That offer still stands (I'll buy first time) with the warning that I am a crude and sometimes rude country boy who will take vocal maybe profane exception to some of the nonsense many of you accept as fact. Forewarned that I have called myself a radical centrist because the self righteous left and right now smuggly sit with all the answers and contempt for differing opinion.
I had some stock bid offers in Friday that thankfully did not take. In anticipation of another big coronavirus selloff I decided to sleep in this morning. The worst is yet to come.
Bigger picture, worst case, bright side----Nothing would be better for the planet than a large number of the human population dying off. I have a better understanding of and empathy for the natural world in contrast to those of us who have subjugated it.
If I have to die do I get to choose one of you to go with me? ::) That could be fun although spending eternity with some of you could get old pretty quick.
I have little regard for "centrists." Centrists have an annoying tendency to insist that nothing is purely black or white, when the truth is just because there are 2 sides to every story doesn't mean 1 isn't completely right and the other completely wrong. Some centrists are afraid to take a position for fear of offending others around the table. Others are ignorant. They don't understand the issue enough to take a stand. Some have a weak moral compass and simply don't care enough to take a stand. Then there are the lazy thinkers, and those who are too shy or insecure to take a stand. Last, but not least, centrists are not problem solvers, they are people pleasers, trying their best to find common ground for the sake of harmony.
Political centrism? Smug, weak and misguidedby Dick Lilly / March 14, 2019
https://crosscut.com/2019/03/political-centrism-smug-weak-and-misguided
Quote from: wh on March 16, 2020, 03:54:32 PMCentrists have an annoying tendency to insist that nothing is purely black or white, when the truth is just because there are 2 sides to every story doesn't mean 1 isn't completely right and the other completely wrong. Some centrists are afraid to take a position for fear of offending others around the table. Others are ignorant. They don't understand the issue enough to take a stand. Some have a weak moral compass and simply don't care enough to take a stand. Then there are the lazy thinkers, and those who are too shy or insecure to take a stand. Last, but not least, centrists are not problem solvers, they are people pleasers, trying their best to find common ground for the sake of harmony.
Or perhaps they have enough common sense to recognize that getting something done requires compromise. It is not the weak or ignorant or lazy that won't reach across the aisle for the good of the country, it is the stiff, block headed who are stuck in the 50's hoping for a comeback of Leave it to Beaver. Compromise--ask Reagan and O'Neal
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 16, 2020, 09:23:49 AM
Quote from: wh on March 16, 2020, 08:52:20 AM
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 15, 2020, 09:36:24 PM
Quote from: wh on March 15, 2020, 02:36:11 PM
Are you kidding? The Democrat party is a fanatical godless religion that expects unwavering adherence to its satanic tenants of faith. We will tell you what to think and how to feel. And the faithful said, Hail Almighty Satan!"
To all who may read this thread and the other postings of wh:
This person does not, in any way, represent Valparaiso University. As illustrated by this post and previous posts, wh lacks psychological maturity and sanity to hold any leadership position and, to my knowledge, does not hold such a position with the university. if at any time i were to learn that wh was serving or being considered for a leadership position, I would forward this person's posts to the appropriate people to insure they would see wh's character is clearly known. This person, of course, would be fully welcome to forward any and all posts that I have made.
How perfectly Communist of you to threaten to destroy someone's career because you're offended by their criticism of your political party. And thanks for proving my point, "The Democrat party is a fanatical godless religion that expects unwavering adherence to its satanic tenants of faith. We will tell you what to think and how to feel."
Chinese tycoon vanishes after calling Xi a 'clown,' slamming government's handling of COVID-19
https://www.foxnews.com/world/high-profile-chinese-tycoon-missing-after-calling-president-xi-jinping-a-clown
The only difference between destroying someone's career and killing them for harshly criticizing your political party is degree. The principle is identical, evil, and anti-American.
Having opinions across the spectrum of political beliefs and being able to express them is critical to a free society. Calling people satanists, saying that you would rejoice if leaders whom you disagree with were to tragically die, or any of the other similar statements that you have made in the past on this page are something very different - they suggest that you may be a psychopath or have other serious clinical psychological derangement. Someone who exhibits these psychological traits in making their arguments, regardless of where they fall on the political spectrum, should not be in a leadership position and do not represent this university.
I totally agree. Certainly Valparaiso University would not welcome wh as one of their representatives.
"Overall, the CDC estimates that 12,000 and 61,000 deaths annually since 2010 can be blamed on the flu. Globally, the World Health Organization (WHO) estimates that the flu kills 290,000 to 650,000 people per year." Health.com
https://twitter.com/brithume/status/1239607614121684992
Comparison with other viruses
For comparison, the case fatality rate with seasonal flu in the United States is less than 0.1% (1 death per every 1,000 cases).
Mortality rate for SARS was 10%, and for MERS 34%.
Virus Death Rate
Wuhan Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) 2.0%*
SARS 9.6%
MERS 34.0%
Swine Flu 0.02%
*=Estimate
QuoteMortality Rate, as discussed by the National Health Commission (NHC) of China on Feb. 4
Asked at a press conference on February 4 what the current mortality rate (or case fatality rate, CFR) is, an official with China NHC said that [7]:
The formula they are using is: cumulative current total deaths / current confirmed cases. Therefore, as of 24:00 on Feb. 3, the formula used was 425/20,438.
Based on this figure, the national mortality rate to date was 2.1% of confirmed cases.
There might be mild cases and other cases not reported.
97% of the country's total deaths (414) were in the Hubei Province.
Mortality rate in Wuhan was 4.9%.
Mortality rate in the Hubei Province was 3.1%.
Mortality rate nationwide was 2.1%.
Fatality rate in other provinces was 0.16%.
Deaths in Wuhan were 313, accounting for 74% of China's total.
Most of the cases were still mild cases, therefore there was no need to panic.
Asked why Wuhan was so much higher than the national level, the NHC official replied that it was for lack of resources, citing as an example that there were only 110 critical care beds in the three designated hospitals where most of the cases were sent.
National mortality rate was basically stable, as of Feb. 4 at 2.1%, and it was 2.3% at the beginning of the epidemic, which can be seen as a slight decline.
Front the analysis of death cases, it emerged that the demographic profile was mainly male, accounting for 2/3, females accounting for 1/3, and is mainly elderly, more than 80% are elderly over 60 years old, and more than 75% had underlying diseases present such as cardiovascular and cardiovascular diseases, diabetes and, in some cases, tumor.
Elderly people with basic diseases, as long as they have pneumonia, were clinically a high-risk factor regardless of whether it is a coronavirus or not, and the case fatality rate was also very high, so it is not that the case fatality rate of pneumonia is high because of the infection with the new coronavirus. "This point must be explained to everyone," concluded the NHC official.[7]
NHS Press Conference, Feb. 4 2020 - National Health Commission (NHC) of the People's Republic of China
Coronavirus Cases Worldwide: As of 3/17/20
187,854
Deaths: 7,478
Recovered: 80,848
Active Cases 99,528
Currently Infected Patients
93,037 (93%) in Mild Condition
6,491 (7%) Serious or Critical
Closed Cases 88,326
Cases which had an outcome:
80,848 (92%) Recovered / Discharged
7,478 (8%) Deaths
As someone who has been strongly against Trump's leadership and behavior as President, I do think that something needs to be said:
In the last few days, Donald Trump has acted like the leader that we need him to be. There is a lot of communication, reliance on and involvement of experts, far less emphasis on things that are not important (what does the media think? who said something bad?) and for more emphasis on things that are important (saving lives, attempting to deal with the massive complexity of the economic issues). We need the President, administration, legislature, and state and local governments to succeed - regardless of ideologies or party affiliations. I hope that we continue to see this (and more of it).
Worldwide Coronavirus Cases 3/18/20: 208,457
Deaths: 8,279
Recovered: 82,909
Active Cases 117,269
Currently Infected Patients in Mild Condition 110,830 (95%)
Serious or Critical 6,439 (5%)
Closed Cases 91,188
Cases which had an outcome:
82,909 (91%) Recovered / Discharged
8,279 (9%) Deaths
Pre-existing medical conditions (comorbidities)
Patients who reported no pre-existing ("comorbid") medical conditions had a case fatality rate of 0.9%. Pre-existing illnesses that put patients at higher risk of dying from a COVID-19 infection are:
COVID-19 Fatality Rate by COMORBIDITY:
*Death Rate = (number of deaths / number of cases) = probability of dying if infected by the virus (%). This probability differs depending on pre-existing condition. The percentage shown below does NOT represent in any way the share of deaths by pre-existing condition. Rather, it represents, for a patient with a given pre-existing condition, the risk of dying if infected by COVID-19.
PRE-EXISTING CONDITION
DEATH RATE
confirmed cases
DEATH RATE
all cases
Cardiovascular disease 13.2% 10.5%
Diabetes 9.2% 7.3%
Chronic respiratory disease 8.0% 6.3%
Hypertension 8.4% 6.0%
Cancer 7.6% 5.6%
no pre-existing conditions 0.9%
https://twitter.com/TheBabylonBee/status/1240359849008955399
https://twitter.com/TomCottonAR/status/1240334786247393280?s=20
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1240394725783416840?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
3/19: Worldwide Confirmed 227,764
Deaths: 9,308
Recovered: 85,985
Active Cases: 132,471 of which
125,533(95%) in mild condition
6,938(5%) Serious or Critical
Closed Cases: 95,292 of which
85,985(90%) Recovered/Discharged
9,308(10%) Deaths
Link to the report on the modelling that really started the current thoughts on virus suppression strategies. https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf (https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf)
Due to the coronavirus pandemic the university has switched to online classes and meetings, plus Admissions has to deal with various complications in the recruitment process. One path they are taking is the production of online campus tours. Also, they are sharing this introduction to the campus that highlights numerous features, which I thought those on the board might appreciate, particularly the clip depicting a scene with peak excitement and attendance at VU basketball:
[tweet]1240722011908968448[/tweet]
https://twitter.com/ToddGawronski/status/1240666150947749890
Tucker Carlson on the coronavirus' impact on higher education: 'Not enough federal bailout money in the Treasury to save every pointless university'
https://video.foxnews.com/v/6143005317001
Very concerning warning for those of us who care about traditional private universities.
Coronavirus: The Hammer and the Dance
What the Next 18 Months Can Look Like, if Leaders Buy Us Time
QuoteSummary of the article: Strong coronavirus measures today should only last a few weeks, there shouldn't be a big peak of infections afterwards, and it can all be done for a reasonable cost to society, saving millions of lives along the way. If we don't take these measures, tens of millions will be infected, many will die, along with anybody else that requires intensive care, because the healthcare system will have collapsed.
3/20: Worldwide Confirmed 253,960
Deaths: 10,408
Recovered: 89,070
Active Cases: 154,482 of which
147,017(95%) in mild condition
7,465(5%) Serious or Critical
Closed Cases: 99,478 of which
89,070(90%) Recovered/Discharged
10,408(10%) Deaths
USA
Total Confirmed Positive 14,250
Total Deaths 205
Total Recovered 121
Top 3 States with Most Deaths:
Washington 74
New York 38
California 18
3/20/20
New Deaths Since Yesterday
Spain 171
Iran 149
USA 10
S. Korea 3
Belgium 16
Sweden 1
Denmark 3
Pakistan 1
Poland 1
Indonesia 7
Ecuador 1
Peru 2
Philippines 1
India 1
Taiwan 1
Algeria 1
Costa Rica 1
Hungary 2
Morocco 1
Gabon 1
Total 380
Political correctness and Chinese propaganda spreading faster in the U.S. media than the Chinese virus aka Covid19
https://twitter.com/JerylBier/status/1237434937160142853
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 20, 2020, 08:09:33 AM3/20/20 New Deaths Since Yesterday Spain 171 Iran 149 USA 10 S. Korea 3 Belgium 16 Sweden 1 Denmark 3 Pakistan 1 Poland 1 Indonesia 7 Ecuador 1 Peru 2 Philippines 1 India 1 Taiwan 1 Algeria 1 Costa Rica 1 Hungary 2 Morocco 1 Gabon 1 Total 380
627 in Italy alone.
Without a significant slowdown in the daily increase in number cases, there could be over 150 million in the US who have the virus just within a couple of months. The curve has not shown any sign of abating to this point. In fact, it is much worse over the last few days but that is almost assuredly because of the fact that there is more testing being done.
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 20, 2020, 08:03:08 AM3/20: Worldwide Confirmed 253,960
Deaths: 10,408
Recovered: 89,070
So it is now 7 hours since this was posted.
New totals
Worldwide cases: 266,115
Deaths 11,153
Recovered: 87,363
The only thing that is being reported is the total who have tested positive. They are not reporting the total who tested negative. I read somewhere that in one country which is keeping track of this that 90% of all who were tested, tested negative and 10% tested positive. It would be helpful to know this to give people some context. If the nearly 250,000 who have tested positive represent only 10% of all who were tested, then nearly 2,250,000 tested negative if my math is correct.
It's tough times for socialists.
https://twitter.com/TheBabylonBee/status/1241095922165129217
https://twitter.com/stephenfhayes/status/1241061279147712513
https://twitter.com/SaltiAdel/status/1241129513058172935
https://twitter.com/seanmdav/status/1241123406151548928
3/21: Worldwide Confirmed 285,777
Deaths: 11,883
Recovered: 93,584
Active Cases: 180,310 of which
172,198(96%) in mild condition
8,112(4%) Serious or Critical
Closed Cases: 105,467 of which
93,584(89%) Recovered/Discharged
11,883(11%) Deaths
USA
Total Confirmed Positive 14,250
Total Deaths 205
Total Recovered 121
Top 3 States with Most Deaths:
Washington 83
New York 56
California 24
Indiana:
Confirmed Positive 79
Total Deaths 3 (1 Johnson County, 2 Marion County)
Total Tested 554
LaPorte County individual who tested positive is in Porter County Hospital
https://twitter.com/wesbury/status/1241161780618985479
Don't Panic: Some Perspective
QuoteA low probability of catching COVID-19
The World Health Organization ("WHO") released a study on how China responded to COVID-19. Currently, this study is one of the most exhaustive pieces published on how the virus spreads.
The results of their research show that COVID-19 doesn't spread as easily as we first thought or the media had us believe (remember people abandoned their dogs out of fear of getting infected). According to their report if you come in contact with someone who tests positive for COVID-19 you have a 1–5% chance of catching it as well. The variability is large because the infection is based on the type of contact and how long.
The majority of viral infections come from prolonged exposures in confined spaces with other infected individuals. Person-to-person and surface contact is by far the most common cause. From the WHO report, "When a cluster of several infected people occurred in China, it was most often (78–85%) caused by an infection within the family by droplets and other carriers of infection in close contact with an infected person.
From the CDC's study on transmission in China and Princess Cruise outbreak -
A growing body of evidence indicates that COVID-19 transmission is facilitated in confined settings; for example, a large cluster (634 confirmed cases) of COVID-19 secondary infections occurred aboard a cruise ship in Japan, representing about one fifth of the persons aboard who were tested for the virus. This finding indicates the high transmissibility of COVID-19 in enclosed spaces
Read This:https://medium.com/six-four-six-nine/evidence-over-hysteria-covid-19-1b767def5894
Quote93% of people who think they are positive aren't
Looking at the success in S. Korea and Singapore, the important tool in our war chest is measurement. If we are concerned about the general non-infected population, what is the probability those who show symptoms actually test positive? What is the chance that the cough from your neighbor is COVID-19? This "conversion rate" will show whether or not you have a cold (another coronavirus) or heading to isolation for two weeks. Global data shows that ~95% of people who are tested aren't positive. The positivity rate varies by country.
UK: 7,132 concluded tests, of which 13 positive (0.2% positivity rate).
UK: 48,492 tests, of which 1,950 (4.0% positivity rate)
Italy: 9,462 tests, of which 470 positive (at least 5.0% positivity rate).
Italy: 3,300 tests, of which 99 positive (3.0% positivity rate)
Iceland: 3,787 tests, of which 218 positive (5.7% positive rate)
France: 762 tests, of which 17 positive, 179 awaiting results (at least 2.2% positivity rate).
Austria: 321 tests, of which 2 positive, awaiting results: unknown (at least 0.6% positivity rate).
South Korea: 66,652 tests with 1766 positives 25,568 awaiting results (4.3% positivity rate).
United States: 445 concluded tests, of which 14 positive (3.1% positivity rate).
In general, the size of the US population infected with COVID-19 will be much smaller than originally estimated as most symptomatic individuals aren't positive. 93% — 99% have other conditions.
Quote1% of cases will be severe
Looking at the whole funnel from top to bottom, ~1% of everyone who is tested for COVID-19 with the US will have a severe case that will require a hospital visit or long-term admission.
Globally, 80–85% of all cases are mild. These will not require a hospital visit and home-based treatment/ no treatment is effective.
https://medium.com/six-four-six-nine/evidence-over-hysteria-covid-19-1b767def5894
QuoteLooking at the US fatality, the fatality rate is drastically declining as the number of cases increases, halving every four or five days. The fatality rate will eventually level off and plateau as the US case-mix becomes apparent.
4.06% March 8 (22 deaths of 541 cases)
3.69% March 9 (26 of 704)
3.01% March 10 (30 of 994)
2.95% March 11 (38 of 1,295)
2.52% March 12 (42 of 1,695)
2.27% March 13 (49 of 2,247)
1.93% March 14 (57 of 2,954)
1.84% March 15 (68 of 3,680)
1.90% March 16 (86 of 4,503)
1.76% March 17 (109 of 6,196)
1.66% March 18 (150 of 9,003)
1.51% March 19th (208 of 13,789)
1.32% March 20th (256 of 19,383)
Source: Worldometers.info
https://medium.com/six-four-six-nine/evidence-over-hysteria-covid-19-1b767def5894
https://twitter.com/strangeharbors/status/1241057919128526856
Jeffrey Zhang
@strangeharbors
Bureaucracy and red tape are making this hard, but if anyone knows of any hospitals or facilities that are in need of the following, please DM me:
Surgical masks
Face masks
Surgical gowns
Cover-alls
Gloves
All phones for the coronavirus hotline are jammed up, as well as all numbers from
@NYGovCuomo's press conferences. If anyone has any direct contacts on how to best supply our facilities, please let me know. It does not have to be within New York!
Please share and retweet this, we have the ability to significantly ameliorate the medical supply shortage if we can contact the right people! #CoronavirusUpdates #Covid_19
https://twitter.com/TheBabylonBee/status/1241424489675702272
Worldwide daily average of confirmed positive cases is 4,459 since 1/20/20 to 3/20/20.
Notable daily spikes since 1/20/20 are:
2/13/20: 15,100 confirmed positive
3/13/20: 16,200
3/16/20: 18,800
3/19/20: 27,800
3/20/20: 29,500
Look how far out of the mainstream Democrats are:
https://twitter.com/eyokley/status/1241391872398016513
How long do symptoms last?
Using available preliminary data, the Report of the WHO-China Joint Mission published on Feb. 28 by WHO, [5] which is based on 55,924 laboratory confirmed cases, observed the following median time from symptoms onset to clinical recovery:
mild cases: approximately 2 weeks
severe or critical disease: 3 - 6 weeks
time from onset to the development of severe disease (including hypoxia): 1 week
Among patients who have died, the time from symptom onset to outcome ranges from 2 - 8 weeks.
Symptoms observed in hospitalized patients with COVID-19
Below we list the symptoms, with percentages representing the proportion of patients displaying that symptom, as observed in hospitalized patients tested and identified as having laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 infection. These findings refer to hospitalized patients, therefore generally representing serious or critical cases. The majority of cases of COVID-19 (about 80%) is mild.
Findings from the Wang et al study published on JAMA and based on 138 hospitalized patients [2]
Common symptoms included:
(Wang et al study) [2]
Fever 98.6%
Fatigue 69.6%
Dry cough59.4%
The median time observed:
from first symptom to → Dyspnea (Shortness of breath) = 5.0 days
from first symptom to → Hospital admission = 7.0 days
from first symptom to → ARDS (Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome) = 8.0 days (when occurring)
Findings from the Huang et al study published on The Lancet and based on 41 hospitalized patients [3]
COMMON SYMPTOMS
AT ONSET OF ILLNESS
(Huang et al study) [3]
Fever 98%
Cough 76%
Myalgia (muscle pain) or Fatigue 44%
LESS COMMON SYMPTOMS:
Sputum production(coughing up material) 28%
Headache 8%
Haemoptysis(coughing up blood) 5%
Diarrhea 3%
Sources
1. Symptoms of Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) - United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)
2. Clinical Characteristics of 138 Hospitalized Patients With 2019 Novel Coronavirus–Infected Pneumonia in Wuhan, China - JAMA, Wang et al., February 7, 2020
3. Clinical features of patients infected with 2019 novel coronavirus in Wuhan, China - Huang et al., The Lancet. January 24, 2020
4. Epidemiological and clinical characteristics of 99 cases of 2019 novel coronavirus pneumonia in Wuhan, China: a descriptive study - Chen et al, The Lancet, January 30, 2020
5. Report of the WHO-China Joint Mission on Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) [Pdf] - World Health Organization, Feb. 28, 2020
Morning of 3/22: Worldwide Confirmed 317,298
Deaths: 13,642
Recovered: 95,942
Active Cases: 207,714 of which
197,572(95%) in mild condition
10,142(5%) Serious or Critical
Closed Cases: 109,584 of which
95,942(88%) Recovered/Discharged
13,642(12%) Deaths
Worldwide daily average of confirmed positive cases is 4,910 from 1/20/20 to 3/21/20.
Notable daily spikes since 1/21/20 are:
2/13/20: 15,100 confirmed positive
3/13/20: 16,200
3/16/20: 18,800
3/19/20: 27,800
3/20/20: 29,500
3/21/20: 32,400
Worldwide Top Five Most Confirmed Positive:
China 81,394
Italy 53,578
Spain 28,572
USA 26,908
Germany 23,129
Worldwide Countries Top 5 Most Deaths
Italy 4,825
Hebei China 3,144
Spain 1,720
Iran 1,556
France 562
USA
Total Confirmed Positive 26,908
Total Deaths 348
Total Recovered 178
Active Cases: 26,382, of which
25,674(97%) in Mild Condition
708(3%) Serious or Critical
Closed Cases:526
Recovered/Discharged 178(34%)
Deaths 348(66%)
Top 3 States with Most Deaths:
Washington 94
New York 76
California 28
Indiana:
Confirmed Positive 126
Total Deaths 4
Total Tested 833
LaPorte County individual who tested positive is in Porter County Hospital
https://twitter.com/Surgeon_General/status/1241689765134598144
https://twitter.com/Surgeon_General/status/1241690105905065985
https://twitter.com/Surgeon_General/status/1241690633741520896
https://twitter.com/Surgeon_General/status/1241691344512434177
https://twitter.com/Surgeon_General/status/1241692256542822401
https://twitter.com/GayPatriotOG/status/1241577191068106752/photo/1
Washington Examiner:
QuoteInflexible, bureaucratic FDA is dragging its feet on coronavirus response
by Tom Rogan
March 20, 2020 01:54 PM
President Trump is extolling his administration's coronavirus response effort. To that end, Trump says he has massively cut red tape to maximize the government's efficiency.
It sounds good, but Trump hasn't done enough on this score.
At this very moment, stockpiles of masks, hand sanitizer, and other supplies are sitting in warehouses waiting for FDA inspectors to get around to them. Where other nations are expediting these deliveries, trusting proven suppliers in their deliveries, the FDA has resorted to its favorite fetish: bureaucratic lethargy.
The problem here is not simply that the FDA is insisting that its box-checking comes before exigent needs of public health, but also that the agency doesn't have enough inspectors to get the job done quickly.
I spoke to one significant medical supplier who talked to me on the condition of anonymity, for fear of FDA retaliation. In one location on the Pacific coast, this supplier has had more than 20 pallets of coronavirus-specific medical supplies waiting in a warehouse for five days. Yes, five days.
At another depot in the south-central United States, this same supplier has had 500,000 level-three or level-four masks sitting in a warehouse for two days now. They expect the FDA delays to continue indefinitely.
And get this — some of what the supplier is delivering is supposed to be gifted to a hospital. But even in that case, the FDA has warned that the supplies cannot even be unpacked until an inspector arrives. If they are broken down before then, even if only to expedite delivery once the inspector's approval is given, fines are threatened to follow.
It's a joke.
Thus follows a critical question: Does this lethargic FDA response match up with Trump's rhetoric? It does not. And as the coronavirus continues to infect more people, the costs of this failure of government will increasingly be measured in lives lost.
The president needs to pick up the phone to call FDA Commissioner Stephen Hahn and tell him to relax the inspection protocols for trusted suppliers. Either that or Trump can admit he works for the FDA bureaucracy rather than the other way around.
C'mon Trump. If this is true, why no action?
Amen! What about the hospitals and state and local health departments? Why didn't they have a plan in place in case of a pandemic? Hospital boards should be fired and lessons should have been learned long ago before this pandemic. The federal government is not the first source you turn to, but to the state and local authorities. Trump will help where needed. The federal government is not big daddy and mommy.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1241760294776561667
https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/1241712659650707461
https://twitter.com/SaltiAdel/status/1241129513058172935
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1241753020435697671
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 22, 2020, 09:30:14 AM
https://twitter.com/GayPatriotOG/status/1241577191068106752/photo/1
https://therecount.com/watch/trump-coronavirus-calendar/2645515793
https://twitter.com/Timcast/status/1241698323792384001
Sen. Kennedy excoriates Dems.
https://twitter.com/senjohnkennedy/status/1242149906816606209?s=21
Our Grand Poobah is loosing it. He has no clue on how to handle a crisis. Hold a press conference. Trust his advisers when he should just shut up. I've seen enough of the buffoon and press conferences which are just a bunch of double talk. He constantly lies. Tell the effing truth that you don't have the answers available at this moment. Geez, a war president, come on. We would be under Nazis control if he had been president in 1941. He still basically feels that it will just disappear magically. What kind of an answer is that. Besides constantly calling it the Chinese Disease. Alright, once or twice is enough. But he constantly goes out of way to push that wording scenario. I would not be surprised if he starts firing his medical advisers becuz they are following his comments and refuting what he is saying. whether its about using some medicine that is used for malaria, arthritis and needs to be tested thoroughly before using or about telling people that are able to go back to work in a week or two when his so called stay away from each other plan ends. HE DOES NOT HAVE A CLUE.
My 2 cents. maybe he needs to take a few lessons on holding a press conference and take some pointers from Cuomo. I know we were not prepared for this. But blaming everyone else and not providing a positive example of how to be a leader is ridiculous. Republicans in congress are the real hold up. Protecting big business and not the small business people. Ball is in your corner wh and Just Sayin. Just show me your stupidity and say the buffoon is the greatest president ever.
Quote from: RS on March 23, 2020, 03:27:32 PMwhether its about using some medicine that is used for malaria, arthritis and needs to be tested thoroughly
Guess what? His followers are hoarding that medicine and people with arthritis or Lupus, who actually need it can't get it! Did you ever notice how he constantly repeats himself whenever there isn't a tel-prompter? Like--"it's a very large plan, a really big one like nobody has ever seen--really big". Geez...
Thanks 72. I knew there was another major medical issue that chloroquinine is used for. Could not remember Lupus and there is certainly a need for that medicine there. Trumps snide attacks on Tony Fauci are becoming more prevalent. I've kept my comments private to the board for quite awhile but is awful hard to watch this buffoon lie to us constantly and bend the truth.
Quote from: RS on March 23, 2020, 03:27:32 PM
Our Grand Poobah is loosing it. He has no clue on how to handle a crisis. Hold a press conference. Trust his advisers when he should just shut up. I've seen enough of the buffoon and press conferences which are just a bunch of double talk. He constantly lies. Tell the effing truth that you don't have the answers available at this moment. Geez, a war president, come on. We would be under Nazis control if he had been president in 1941. He still basically feels that it will just disappear magically. What kind of an answer is that. Besides constantly calling it the Chinese Disease. Alright, once or twice is enough. But he constantly goes out of way to push that wording scenario. I would not be surprised if he starts firing his medical advisers becuz they are following his comments and refuting what he is saying. whether its about using some medicine that is used for malaria, arthritis and needs to be tested thoroughly before using or about telling people that are able to go back to work in a week or two when his so called stay away from each other plan ends. HE DOES NOT HAVE A CLUE.
My 2 cents. maybe he needs to take a few lessons on holding a press conference and take some pointers from Cuomo. I know we were not prepared for this. But blaming everyone else and not providing a positive example of how to be a leader is ridiculous. Republicans in congress are the real hold up. Protecting big business and not the small business people. Ball is in your corner wh and Just Sayin. Just show me your stupidity and say the buffoon is the greatest president ever.
RS - First, you disparage our President and call him names, then you call Just Sayin and me stupid for defending him. I want you to know that you have really hurt my feelings. And I'm glad you don't represent my alma mater. And you don't have good leadership skills. And anyone thinking of hiring you should feel free to contact me and I'll show them your post so they know how mean you really are. And I am going to tattle on you like a little girl and get '04 involved so he can call you out for your lack of sensitivity toward Donald Trump, Just Sayin, and myself.
Just kidding, of course. Only a complete buffoon would do that. LOL On a more serious note, Im still wondering if you're a public school teacher. I've asked you a couple of times and you keep ignoring me.
wh, all nastiness aside i needed to vent and its been awhile. No I am not a public school teacher but have many friends who are. I am a VU graduate but now retired from the steel industry. I live in valpo and have worked the voting polls for several years. Registered democrat which i hope you don't take offense to. thanks for your kidding and i take it for what it was. The president just ordered 10,000 doses of the Lupus medicine to New York. I hope it works but i still feel people need to self quarantine to stem the spread. Hope you are well as Indiana I see has implemented a stay in home order starting wednesday
Quote from: RS on March 23, 2020, 06:05:34 PM
wh, all nastiness aside i needed to vent and its been awhile. No I am not a public school teacher but have many friends who are. I am a VU graduate but now retired from the steel industry. I live in valpo and have worked the voting polls for several years. Registered democrat which i hope you don't take offense to. thanks for your kidding and i take it for what it was. The president just ordered 10,000 doses of the Lupus medicine to New York. I hope it works but i still feel people need to self quarantine to stem the spread. Hope you are well as Indiana I see has implemented a stay in home order starting wednesday
Nice post, RS. Just like that, I see you in a completely different, totally positive light. I'm kind of speechless. Take care.
Quote from: vu72 on March 23, 2020, 03:58:23 PMwhether its about using some medicine that is used for malaria, arthritis and needs to be tested thoroughly
Is that the orange horse pill they gave us in Vietnam? If it is all that horded toilet paper will get used.
Actual quotes from Donald Trump, some of which are truly bizarre and inappropriate for any executive to say.
Jan 20: "I know more about viruses than anyone."
Jan 22: "We have it totally under control. It's one person coming in from China. It's going to be just fine."
Feb 2: "We pretty much shut it down coming in from China."
Feb 24: "The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA... Stock Market starting to look very good to me!"
Feb 25: "CDC and my Administration are doing a GREAT job of handling Coronavirus."
Feb 25: "I think that's a problem that's going to go away... They have studied it. They know very much. In fact, we're very close to a vaccine."
Feb 26: "The 15 (cases in the US) within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero."
Feb 26: "We're going very substantially down, not up."
Feb 27: "One day it's like a miracle, it will disappear."
Feb 28: "We're ordering a lot of supplies. We're ordering a lot of, uh, elements that frankly we wouldn't be ordering unless it was something like this. But we're ordering a lot of different elements of medical."
Mar 2: "You take a solid flu vaccine, you don't think that could have an impact, or much of an impact, on corona?"
Mar 2: "A lot of things are happening, a lot of very exciting things are happening and they're happening very rapidly."
Mar 4: "If we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get better just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work — some of them go to work, but they get better."
Mar 5: "I NEVER said people that are feeling sick should go to work."
Mar 5: "The United States... has, as of now, only 129 cases... and 11 deaths. We are working very hard to keep these numbers as low as possible!"
Mar 6: "I think we're doing a really good job in this country at keeping it down... a tremendous job at keeping it down."
Mar 6: "Anybody right now, and yesterday, anybody that needs a test gets a test. They're there. And the tests are beautiful.... the tests are all perfect like the letter was perfect. The transcription was perfect. Right? This was not as perfect as that but pretty good."
Mar 6: "I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that I understand it ... Every one of these doctors said, 'How do you know so much about this?' Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for president."
Mar 6: "I don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn't our fault."
Mar 8: "We have a perfectly coordinated and fine tuned plan at the White House for our attack on CoronaVirus."
Mar 9: "This blindsided the world."
Mar 13: "National emergency, two big words."
Mar 13: "I take no responsibility at all
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/03/26/health/usa-coronavirus-cases.amp.html
And it is a sprawling, cacophonous democracy, where states set their own policies and President Trump has sent mixed messages about the scale of the danger and how to fight it, ensuring there was no coherent, unified response to a grave public health threat.
A series of missteps and lost opportunities dogged the nation's response.
The President Is Trapped
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/presidents-character-unequal-task/608743/
Best story I have seen on why Trump should not be running this country at a time when a pandemic could wipe out millions of Americans.
For his entire adult life, and for his entire presidency, Donald Trump has created his own alternate reality, complete with his own alternate set of facts. He has shown himself to be erratic, impulsive, narcissistic, vindictive, cruel, mendacious, and devoid of empathy. None of that is new.
A former White House adviser who has worked on past pandemics told me, "This fool will bring the death of thousands needlessly. We have mobilized as a country to shut things down for a time, despite the difficulty. We can work our way back to a semblance of normality if we hold out and let the health system make it through the worst of it." He added, "But now our own president is undoing all that work and preaching recklessness. Rather than lead us in taking on a difficult challenge, he is dragging us toward failure and suffering.
But what happens to Trump psychologically and emotionally when things don't turn around in the time period he wants? What happens if the tricks that have allowed him to walk away from scandal after scandal don't work quite so well, if the doors of escape are bolted shut, and if it dawns on even some of his supporters—people who will watch family members, friends, and neighbors contract the disease, some number of whom will die—that no matter what Trump says, he can't alter this epidemiological reality?
Meanwhile, back to reality:
Gallup: Trump job approval rating matches all-time high
"The president's job approval rating has remained steady among Republicans (92 percent), but he's gained 8 points among independents (43 percent) and 6 points among Democrats (13 percent)."
It appears that Trump's handling of the coronavirus response is behind the approval rating bump. Sixty percent of voters overall said they approve of the job Trump is doing to address the epidemic, including 94 percent of Republicans, 60 percent of independents and 27
percent of Democrats.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/administration/489285-gallup-trump-job-approval-rating-matches-all-time-high%3famp
And...
WHO chief praises Trump's coronavirus 'leadership'
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2020/03/26/who-chief-praises-trumps-leadership-in-handling-coronavirus-pandemic/amp/
Take some deep breaths and relax, Trump haters. Think good thoughts, like what you want to buy with that $2400 gift you're about to receive.
That $2400 is costless from a national perspective? Much of the stimulus package is probably necessary, but it costs each man, woman and child in this country $6000. So maybe instead of looking at it as a gift, we should consider that a married couple will owe $12000.
Quote from: wh on March 26, 2020, 10:26:50 PM
Meanwhile, back to reality:
Gallup: Trump job approval rating matches all-time high
"The president's job approval rating has remained steady among Republicans (92 percent), but he's gained 8 points among independents (43 percent) and 6 points among Democrats (13 percent)."
It appears that Trump's handling of the coronavirus response is behind the approval rating bump. Sixty percent of voters overall said they approve of the job Trump is doing to address the epidemic, including 94 percent of Republicans, 60 percent of independents and 27
percent of Democrats.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/administration/489285-gallup-trump-job-approval-rating-matches-all-time-high%3famp
These surveys were taken just before Trump came up with the stupid idea that he needed to jump start an economy by a certain date, Easter, because it is a "beautiful day" not because the virus peak will be over. Trump was saying that he needed to get the economy going because his political enemies don't want the economy to recover so as to hurt his re-election chances. I think you will see the Trump approval rating go way down after the idiotic decision.
Quote from: wh on March 26, 2020, 10:41:28 PM
And...
WHO chief praises Trump's coronavirus 'leadership'
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2020/03/26/who-chief-praises-trumps-leadership-in-handling-coronavirus-pandemic/amp/
Take some deep breaths and relax, Trump haters. Think good thoughts, like what you want to buy with that $2400 gift you're about to receive.
During that same press conference, the WHO director-general warned against nations lifting their coronavirus lockdowns for the sake of economic salvation, saying the virus would only re-emerge as a result.Isn't that exactly what Trump proposed to do with his idiotic plan? It seems to me the WHO director-general is a man who must make many political moves and due to Trump's narcissistic nature he knows if he doesn't praise the US president in some way he will never get Trump to listen to him about ending the lockdown too soon.
Quote from: wh on March 26, 2020, 10:26:50 PMMeanwhile, back to reality:
Your and Trump's reality which we have proved time and time again is idiotic and stupid.
Quote from: bbtds on March 27, 2020, 11:31:06 AM
Quote from: wh on March 26, 2020, 10:26:50 PMMeanwhile, back to reality:
Your and Trump's reality which we have proved time and time again is idiotic and stupid.
In all likelihood, President Trump will be elected to a 2nd term in November. Pace yourself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSSrimkmxzI
Quote yesterday from Donald Trump:
Trump said that Pence "calls all the governors. And I tell him, I'm a different type of person, and I say, 'Mike, don't call the governor of Washington. You're wasting your time with him."
"Don't call the woman in Michigan. It doesn't make any difference what happens," Trump also said he told Pence, who leads the U.S. response to the coronavirus.
Trump says that people must praise him and commend him otherwise he is not going to take calls that would coordinate better ways to help people. Not only is that not Presidential, it is inhuman.
Donald Trump, former president, on his death bed after getting COVID-19 in March 2022.
Trump: "Melania, will you please tell the secret service to get that break through medicine we used 2 years ago on all those coronavirus patients?"
Melania: "Sorry dear. There isn't any of that medicine left."
Trump: "Just tell the secret service. I'm sure they will know how to get some."
Melania: "I'm sorry, dear, that former Michigan governor, Whitmer, is now head of Health and Human Services Vice President and she says you were not appreciative of their efforts to secure the medicine for you. She says you can't have the medicine."
Quote from: wh on March 27, 2020, 12:26:21 PM
Quote from: bbtds on March 27, 2020, 11:31:06 AM
Quote from: wh on March 26, 2020, 10:26:50 PMMeanwhile, back to reality:
Your and Trump's reality which we have proved time and time again is idiotic and stupid.
In all likelihood, President Trump will be elected to a 2nd term in November. Pace yourself.
Ok, your opinion, but that still doesn't change that fact that your and Trump's reality is idiotic and stupid.
Even Juan Williams one of the Fox News contributor/talking heads said Sunday morning that President Trump should withdraw his aspiration to have certain parts of the country return to a normal business environment by Easter Sunday. Even he knows it's idiotic.
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 28, 2020, 09:37:57 PM
Quote yesterday from Donald Trump:
Trump said that Pence "calls all the governors. And I tell him, I'm a different type of person, and I say, 'Mike, don't call the governor of Washington. You're wasting your time with him."
"Don't call the woman in Michigan. It doesn't make any difference what happens," Trump also said he told Pence, who leads the U.S. response to the coronavirus.
Trump says that people must praise him and commend him otherwise he is not going to take calls that would coordinate better ways to help people. Not only is that not Presidential, it is inhuman.
Quote from: bbtds on March 28, 2020, 09:42:21 PM
Donald Trump, former president, on his death bed after getting COVID-19 in March 2022.
Trump: "Melania, will you please tell the secret service to get that break through medicine we used 2 years ago on all those coronavirus patients?"
Melania: "Sorry dear. There isn't any of that medicine left."
Trump: "Just tell the secret service. I'm sure they will know how to get some."
Melania: "I'm sorry, dear, that former Michigan governor, Whitmer, is now head of Health and Human Services and she says you were not appreciative of their efforts to secure the medicine for you. She says you can't have the medicine."
Meanwhile, back to reality:
https://twitter.com/GovWhitmer/status/1243947801765085186
Quote from: wh on March 29, 2020, 10:29:55 AM
Meanwhile, back to reality:
https://twitter.com/GovWhitmer/status/1243947801765085186
So Trump is the problem since he needs all the governors to bow before him and show "the chosen one" their appreciation.
Rod Serling knew :
Some humor to brighten your day. Glad to see the President listening to advisors more. I feel the end of April may not be long enough. Stay safe all.
Speaking of humor, funny Larry David PSA:
https://twitter.com/cagovernor/status/1245110728199045120?s=21
Just read a report that the government is having provide extra protection for Dr. Fauci. Right-wing commentators, bloggers and pro-trump groups have been sending threatening emails and communications to him. Sad that one man who has stood up to the President receives this kind of hatred.
Just found out this afternoon that one of my friends was diagnosed with Covid-19 via TeleMed. She could not get a doctors appointment and was directed to use the Parkview Hospital TeleMed service. She had actually been sent to the ER about 8 days ago by her doctor. She was tested for the flu and told that is what she probably had. Was told today the flu test came back negative and that all her symptoms match Covid-19 and that is most likely what she has but that they would not test her unless she was admitted to the hospital, but that she should not come in unless it was an emergency. She was then prescribed Hydroxychloroquine and Azithromycin... we all know what that means. :-X
This just confirms the suspicions that the numbers for this outbreak are way off. My wife is a biochemist and chair of the Life Science Department at one of the local colleges and she has been saying the same thing for weeks. My daughter is on the first response team at Children's National Hospital and they are seeing the first pediatric patients coming in now. Starting to get real now for the wife and I.
Quote from: FWalum on April 01, 2020, 08:42:46 PM
Just found out this afternoon that one of my friends was diagnosed with Covid-19 via TeleMed. She could not get a doctors appointment and was directed to use the Parkview Hospital TeleMed service. She had actually been sent to the ER about 8 days ago by her doctor. She was tested for the flu and told that is what she probably had. Was told today the flu test came back negative and that all her symptoms match Covid-19 and that is most likely what she has but that they would not test her unless she was admitted to the hospital, but that she should not come in unless it was an emergency. She was then prescribed Hydroxychloroquine and Azithromycin... we all know what that means. :-X
This just confirms the suspicions that the numbers for this outbreak are way off. My wife is a biochemist and chair of the Life Science Department at one of the local colleges and she has been saying the same thing for weeks. My daughter is on the first response team at Children's National Hospital and they are seeing the first pediatric patients coming in now. Starting to get real now for the wife and I.
Sorry to hear that, FW. I think it's inevitable that we all will start to have similar stories, unfortunately. Best wishes to your family and my thoughts are with your daughter as she prepares for what will likely be a very trying time.
All of the worst case death scenarios are based on "models." We shutdown the greatest economy the world has ever known based on "models." We're paying our citizens to stay home with money we don't have based on models. Models have put Trump in a damned if you do, damned if you don't position that know nothing politicians Schumer and Pelosi and the rest of the rum dumbs in the "resist" party can exploit. Now these academic modelers are trying to back away from their own projections, because unlike phony climate change models that predict the end of world after we're all dead, they know the day is coming when they're going to have to answer for themselves. Screw this whole thing. Pull the plug and get back to work. Let the "resist" party bitch and moan and 2nd guess all the way to Election Day. Then kick their ass. In the meantime, let the great people of this country out of their homes and back to work.
Quote from: wh on April 03, 2020, 12:12:36 PM
All of the worst case death scenarios are based on "models." We shutdown the greatest economy the world has ever known based on "models." We're paying our citizens to stay home with money we don't have based on models. Models have put Trump in a damned if you do, damned if you don't position that know nothing politicians Schumer and Pelosi and the rest of the rum dumbs in the "resist" party can exploit. Now these academic modelers are trying to back away from their own projections, because unlike phony climate change models that predict the end of world after we're all dead, they know the day is coming when they're going to have to answer for themselves. Screw this whole thing. Pull the plug and get back to work. Let the "resist" party bitch and moan and 2nd guess all the way to Election Day. Then kick their ass. In the meantime, let the great people of this country out of their homes and back to work.
That would be a death sentence to many. Here's a reality check for you--On March 27, the number of cases in America were 98,661 with 1,516 deaths. Right now, not quit a week later, the total number of cases in America is 265,400 with 6,762 deaths. Cases almost tripling in a week and death quadrupling. But go a head, keep listening to Hannity and Rush.
On another thread, I posted a canvassing completed by the University of Chicago of about 50 of the top U.S. economists which included this question:
Question B: Abandoning severe lockdowns at a time when the likelihood of a resurgence in infections remains high will lead to greater total economic damage than sustaining the lockdowns to eliminate the resurgence risk.
How many felt that there would be less economic damage by abandoning lockdowns when there is a high likelihood of resurgence? NONE!! 14% said they were uncertain and 86% agreed with the statement above.
Yet, some people haven't learned that not listening to the experts is part of the reason why this is as bad as it is. They think that somehow Donald Trump or others who have far less knowledge on economics have better answers.
Tough call and I'm glad I don't have to make it.
I'm a small business owner and that is the extent of my knowledge of economics. That said, I simply do not think the economy can withstand a two-or three-month shutdown. It has been suggested that restrictions should be loosened for areas of the country that do not have a high level of infections. I agree with this approach. Iowa, where I live, has a couple dozen counties where there has not been a single case reported. It does not make sense to close all economic activity in these areas just because the density and urban transit usage methods have made New York City violently susceptible to the virus.
The argument is that the virus will eventually spread to rural areas so we have to act now. But that has not been the case in Washington state, where the curve has flattened.
Tough decisions need to be made. And soon.
Paul
'72, '84-2, and '78 - Being in a little calmer state than I was earlier, I have to admit your responses seem more reasonable than my tersely written post. Hopefully, our "experts" know better than we do and will strike the proper balance that doesn't make the cure worse than the illness.
"Doctors disagree about things all the time. My qualifications in terms of looking at the science is that I'm a social scientist," he told CNN's John Berman on "New Day." "I have a Ph.D. And I understand how to read statistical studies, whether it's in medicine, the law, economics or whatever."
This is from White Trade advisor Peter Navarro who claims that medical experts like Anthony Fauci are wrong in saying that a drug for treating coronavirus has not been verified as effective. This is one of the stupidest and most dangerous statements that I have ever heard of. I also have a Ph. D. and I would definitely say that while I can read statistical studies in my field, that does not in any way make me qualified to interpret quantitative results in medicine.
Quote from: wh on April 03, 2020, 06:28:32 PM
'72, '84-2, and '78 - Being in a little calmer state than I was earlier, I have to admit your responses seem more reasonable than my tersely written post. Hopefully, our "experts" know better than we do and will strike the proper balance that doesn't make the cure worse than the illness.
It is only human for all of us to have some moments during this crisis where we lose our cool. Fully agree in the hope that our experts not only know better than we do, but can work out an optimal balance as we move forward. We also need to remember that just because someone is an expert does not mean that they are right 100% of the time, and that someone is not an expert just because they are right more than 0% of the time. Listen to the experts in medicine and economics, not the person who just gives you the answer that you want to hear.
How China bends the curve:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU5Vu7XBpzg#action=share
Working at home in the basement corner, I am losing my focus and getting headaches with consecutive Skype meetings all day. I had to step out and lie down.
For those curious, it appears that Valparaiso University will receive $3,107,360 from the CARES act passed last week. Half of that amount has been released immediately and must go to students as emergency aid grants to help cover campus expenses related to disruptions caused by the pandemic.
https://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/secretary-devos-rapidly-delivers-more-6-billion-emergency-cash-grants-college-students-impacted-coronavirus-outbreak (https://www.ed.gov/news/press-releases/secretary-devos-rapidly-delivers-more-6-billion-emergency-cash-grants-college-students-impacted-coronavirus-outbreak)
The list of amounts allocated to each university is located at the following link:
https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ope/allocationsforsection18004a1ofcaresact.pdf (https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ope/allocationsforsection18004a1ofcaresact.pdf)
I see where Doctors Laura Ingrahm , Bill Barr and Donald Trump are pushing for a quicker return to normal. Perhaps before the end of the month. Glad to hear that such eminent doctors are saying things are improving greatly. I'm so encouraged.
Easy in the politics RS. Everyone has expressed stuff that is optimistic and not true. Some democrats have expressed BS comments also. Look it up.
Quote from: RS on April 09, 2020, 03:21:01 PM
I see where Doctors Laura Ingrahm , Bill Barr and Donald Trump are pushing for a quicker return to normal. Perhaps before the end of the month. Glad to hear that such eminent doctors are saying things are improving greatly. I'm so encouraged.
I have a great deal of respect for the 2 medical experts that appear at the daily briefings. It also appears that President Trump has taken their wise counsel to heart in every decision he has made to date. That said, the day will come where we have to begin turning our economy back on. That decision will be made by the person(s) the citizens of this nation elected to make those very weighty decisions - in this instance the President of the United States and our 50 state governors. If they turn the economy on too soon, it could have a terrible result. On the other hand, we can't simply continue to hole up for months on end waiting for a cure. At some point we're going to have to strike a balance. For the Trump haters (Democrat Party, Democrat controlled media, academia, Hollywood, liberal special interest groups, etc.) he will never strike the right balance, even if he does. He will either turn the economy back on too soon and have blood on his hands, or he waited too long and destroyed the economy, followed by the next impeachment hoax. With all the venom these people spew incessantly, including some in my own extended family, I don't know a Democrat personally that I would trust to express an honest, informed, fair minded opinion about anything related to the name Donald Trump (including anyone on this board). Why? Because anyone with hatred in their heart for another human being is incapable of judging that person fairly.
Amen, wh!
Yes I agree to some of your points wh especially about the economy. Yet a return to normalcy if started too soon would be disastrous. I'm retired as I've said before so going back to work does not effect me. I don't know how many of you work from home at this point and so continue to earn a living and contribute to the economy. However the pro Trump people in the media right posturing media don't seem to get it. They work in safe environments but how many would trade those jobs to go work in health service, food service, public service jobs , etc. that have to face people. I bet the Rush Limbaughs, Laura Ingrahms and Hannity's of the world would not do it. Even the President who is a known germaphobe probably would not do it. It easy to say go back to work but until more testing is done especially for antibodies is done there will be a big unknown. There are plenty of haters on the right side of politics too. I hear them on the radio all the time. its a win / lose situation right now. All we can do is listen to the experts and trust in their decisions.
"Normal", as we used to know it, won't return without a vaccine. Some version of normal can return, I suppose, particularly if we finally get the tests done that we so badly need (both to find out who has it, but more importantly, to find out who has had it, unknowingly and thus would be immune to getting it again)
Any of you who want expert information in a relatively unbiased atmosphere should view videos from Evolutionary Biologists Heather Herring and Bret Weinstein on Bret's Dark Horse Podcast YouTube channel. These are very informative in-depth discussions. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCi5N_uAqApEUIlg32QzkPlg/featured (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCi5N_uAqApEUIlg32QzkPlg/featured)
https://twitter.com/BretWeinstein/status/1247641245175799808
Some thoughts as we near the celebration of the Resurrection of our Lord. We, as a country are in deep trouble and clearly need prayers let alone political sense. Two weeks ago the National total of cases in America was under 100,000 with 1500 deaths. Today, we are at over 500,000 cases and over 20,000 deaths. I just saw a photo of what looked like a car dealer lot but it wasn't. It was a picture of hundreds of cars in line for food from a food shelf in San Antonio.
This is not going away, this week or next month. We are in a death spiral for many. Be kind, be generous. We all lose track of all the Americans who are living check to check or rely on tips to make ends meet. There are also plenty of people with good paying jobs who have been laid off with no income or even worse...not health insurance. If you get sick, can you even get care?
Political parties aside, many of us disagree on many subjects. As Valpo alums and/or followers/lovers of Dear Old Valpo, we need to come together on this. Pray, be generous and keep those friends and neighbors in mind who may be very near desperation...very soon.
Happy Easter to all...HE IS RISEN!!!
For any of you that may be interested in streaming an Easter Service, here is the link to the stream from St. Paul's Lutheran Church here in Fort Wayne. This is the church that was chiefly responsible for the Lutheran's purchasing Valparaiso University.
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=3526786380671126&id=120650154618116 (https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=3526786380671126&id=120650154618116)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/wF8QC_EvtrqSNBiDBA2fx_NvIzNkkjZPZHEhze47joYe18Sqk4mHvJpbd8kZoa34h2IInjBzc5WkiUS2SDF1opaOjcMZC5kfJIC_w-wXLnO9KLDvJZilgoOTZs1AjOsaa42Jbvtbc7rF6riy)
DEFLECT .... DENY .... DIRECT the blame elsewhere. President Trump understands those concepts fairly well. The nice little propaganda film the White House put out is a perfect example. Everyone else is to blame but his Administration on the outbreak circumstances.
To those of you who support Trump, how do you reconcile this gem that he said today?
"When somebody is President of the United States, your authority is total"
Where is this supported in the Constitution? Do you totally reject states rights? By my estimate, this is the 9,356th statement that Donald Trump has made that illustrates he is completely unfit to be President.
Getting my popcorn ready for today's chapter of the greatest show on earth. :popcorn:
Quote from: vu84v2 on April 13, 2020, 07:53:43 PM
To those of you who support Trump, how do you reconcile this gem that he said today?
"When somebody is President of the United States, your authority is total"
Where is this supported in the Constitution? Do you totally reject states rights? By my estimate, this is the 9,356th statement that Donald Trump has made that illustrates he is completely unfit to be President.
How do I reconcile it? The President said it, and I have no reason to doubt him. It's as simple as that. The fact that I have seen very little pushback since from the fake news media basically confirms it. Otherwise, more liberal heads would be exploding than just the know-nothing CBS info babe that rudely tried to take the President of United States on in yesterday's briefing.
Quote from: wh on April 14, 2020, 03:44:16 PMHow do I reconcile it? The President said it, and I have no reason to doubt him.
Come on wh, you're kidding right?
Quote from: wh on April 14, 2020, 03:44:16 PM
Quote from: vu84v2 on April 13, 2020, 07:53:43 PM
To those of you who support Trump, how do you reconcile this gem that he said today?
"When somebody is President of the United States, your authority is total"
Where is this supported in the Constitution? Do you totally reject states rights? By my estimate, this is the 9,356th statement that Donald Trump has made that illustrates he is completely unfit to be President.
How do I reconcile it? The President said it, and I have no reason to doubt him. It's as simple as that. The fact that I have seen very little pushback since from the fake news media basically confirms it. Otherwise, more liberal heads would be exploding than just the know-nothing CBS info babe that rudely tried to take the President of United States on in yesterday's briefing.
10th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Putting aside this little thing like the constitution, the President says "we're going to open these businesses in these states" and the governors of some of those states say "no, given information from the CDC and other public health experts, we are not going to open those businesses yet". Please explain his recourse. I thought that States' rights were important. And just to correct you...every media outlet that does not consider itself a propaganda machine for Donald Trump has blasted Trump's statement. Lastly, that CBS reporter had more guts and professional integrity than all of the so-called journalists at OAN.
Quote from: vu72 on April 14, 2020, 04:27:38 PM
Quote from: wh on April 14, 2020, 03:44:16 PMHow do I reconcile it? The President said it, and I have no reason to doubt him.
Come on wh, you're kidding right?
The President said today that whatever decisions he makes will be done in conjunction with the Governors. NY Governor Cuomo said today that he isn't looking for fight and fully expects he and the President will work together going forward. Truthfully, I'm pleasantly surprised at how well our President and his team and our Governors have worked together. Let's hope they keep it up and finish the job.
Quote from: vu84v2 on April 14, 2020, 04:49:37 PM
Quote from: wh on April 14, 2020, 03:44:16 PM
Quote from: vu84v2 on April 13, 2020, 07:53:43 PM
To those of you who support Trump, how do you reconcile this gem that he said today?
"When somebody is President of the United States, your authority is total"
Where is this supported in the Constitution? Do you totally reject states rights? By my estimate, this is the 9,356th statement that Donald Trump has made that illustrates he is completely unfit to be President.
How do I reconcile it? The President said it, and I have no reason to doubt him. It's as simple as that. The fact that I have seen very little pushback since from the fake news media basically confirms it. Otherwise, more liberal heads would be exploding than just the know-nothing CBS info babe that rudely tried to take the President of United States on in yesterday's briefing.
10th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Putting aside this little thing like the constitution, the President says "we're going to open these businesses in these states" and the governors of some of those states say "no, given information from the CDC and other public health experts, we are not going to open those businesses yet". Please explain his recourse. I thought that States' rights were important. And just to correct you...every media outlet that does not consider itself a propaganda machine for Donald Trump has blasted Trump's statement. Lastly, that CBS reporter had more guts and professional integrity than all of the so-called journalists at OAN.
"Guts and integrity?" She was 1 of a roomful of journalistic shills of the Democrat Party on the attack of a duly elected President. If she would have acted that way toward President Obama, she would be a local reporter in Tacoma today. If she would have pulled a stunt like that in front of a President Hilary Clinton, someone in the Clinton family cartel would be planning her impending suicide as we speak.
Quote from: wh on April 14, 2020, 05:16:22 PM
Quote from: vu72 on April 14, 2020, 04:27:38 PM
Quote from: wh on April 14, 2020, 03:44:16 PMHow do I reconcile it? The President said it, and I have no reason to doubt him.
Come on wh, you're kidding right?
The President said today that whatever decisions he makes will be done in conjunction with the Governors. NY Governor Cuomo said today that he isn't looking for fight and fully expects he and the President will work together going forward. Truthfully, I'm pleasantly surprised at how well our President and his team and our Governors have worked together. Let's hope they keep it up and finish the job.
We can agree that working together is the best thing for everyone. But it is not "the governors get a say, but the President gets the final word". It just does not work that way. If anything, the mayors get the final say unless their state constitutions allow them to be overruled by the governor. But again, working together and reaching a consensus is best.
It is interesting to look back at early posts in this thread and read some of the "its no big deal" posts. Without naming names, some of those folks have been very quiet recently. Hopefully they haven't come down with the virus.
Quote from: vu84v2 on April 14, 2020, 05:54:27 PM
Quote from: wh on April 14, 2020, 05:16:22 PM
Quote from: vu72 on April 14, 2020, 04:27:38 PM
Quote from: wh on April 14, 2020, 03:44:16 PMHow do I reconcile it? The President said it, and I have no reason to doubt him.
Come on wh, you're kidding right?
The President said today that whatever decisions he makes will be done in conjunction with the Governors. NY Governor Cuomo said today that he isn't looking for fight and fully expects he and the President will work together going forward. Truthfully, I'm pleasantly surprised at how well our President and his team and our Governors have worked together. Let's hope they keep it up and finish the job.
We can agree that working together is the best thing for everyone. But it is not "the governors get a say, but the President gets the final word". It just does not work that way. If anything, the mayors get the final say unless their state constitutions allow them to be overruled by the governor. But again, working together and reaching a consensus is best.
You may want to inform Governor Cuomo that he doesn't know what he's talking about:
Cuomo says de Blasio doesn't have authority to keep NYC schools closed
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2020/04/11/cuomo-says-de-blasio-has-no-authority-to-keep-nyc-schools-closed/amp/
You may want to inform Governor Cuomo that he doesn't know what he's talking about:
Cuomo says de Blasio doesn't have authority to keep NYC schools closed
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2020/04/11/cuomo-says-de-blasio-has-no-authority-to-keep-nyc-schools-closed/amp/
[/quote]
It is possible that Governor Cuomo is right, because his authority to overrule a mayor would be based on the state constitution (and I know nothing about the New York state constitution). However, from the 10th amendment it seems very clear that the President does not have the authority to overrule the states.
Quote from: justducky on March 11, 2020, 08:04:34 PM
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 11, 2020, 06:23:47 PMI think this will taper off and much of the fear and hysteria is irrational and overblown.
Because this is new we have zero immunity to it. Figures today said 80 to 150 million Americans will be stricken before this runs its course. I've heard 1% mortality at least for us in the highest risk categories.
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 11, 2020, 06:23:47 PMSpring is around the corner and viruses typically don't spread in warmer weather.
They believe or maybe are certain that this will not follow that pattern. Italy is a world outbreak hotspot (warm) while South Korea (cold) seems to be winning because they reacted quickly.
Quote from: Just Sayin on March 11, 2020, 06:23:47 PMI think it's stupid for the NCAA to prohibit fan attendance at the dance. The likely outcome of this will be to cancel the tournament. Boneheaded and gutless decision by the president of the NCAA today.
Or maybe they will look like cautious geniuses.
Quote from: justducky on March 11, 2020, 09:15:31 PM
Quotequote from: Just Sayin on March 11, 2020, 09:26:53 PM
Looking like a genius doesn't make you one.
Not a genius but going forward I will be listening carefully to what VP Pence says and ignoring the president. Much better source of unbiased information.
Let's give justducky the kudos he deserves for his forethought many days ago when decisions were being made about cancelling events we were looking forward to like the NCAA tournament.
The president is so toxic to America. Today he is tweeting liberate Virginia. Liberate Michigan. Liberate Minnesota. All he is doing is escalating the growing unrest in the States. Yes people want to get back to work. Get back to our normal lives of eating out, movies, visiting friends and family, shopping and sporting events and concerts. But according to every medical expert this will not happen for a long time. Maybe even a year or more. Has everyone seen pictures of those Michigan protesters. Right wing Trumpsters carrying automatic weapons and having their children carrying signs that I'm sure they dint have a clue about. It will spread if people are not maintaining recommended health standards and precautions. I'm sure the president realizes that those states are important to his re-election and inciting his Trumpsters is needed. Give me a break. Yes leave it up to the Governors. Opening up the states county by county would seem to be a not very good way of doing it. So you open up Porter county. Whats to keep people from Lake County or La Porte County or even Illinois from coming to Porter County and shopping and spreading the virus. There has to be a more logical way. Yes more testing is needed. As for sporting events ... I would not be surprised as NCAA basketball next fall will be a victim. I hope not. To all ... please be safe. Wear your masks when going out.
Quote from: wh on April 14, 2020, 03:44:16 PMHow do I reconcile it? The President said it, and I have no reason to doubt him.
You should.
Trump to 'suspend immigration into the United States' by executive order amid coronavirus
"Given tens of millions of Americans are out of work right now and we're battling a virus that spreads through human-to-human transmission I am dying to hear one coherent argument against this," wrote Spectator USA's Washington editor Amber Athey.
Jon Meacham the Pulitzer prize winning presidential biographer has made a very observant but obvious statement saying the corona virus has become a partisan pandemic. With various Republican governors opening up their states one wonders where their concern for the health of their constituents belongs. At least Holcomb is taking a more measured look at opening up the state.
Quote from: wh on April 21, 2020, 01:02:31 AM
Trump to 'suspend immigration into the United States' by executive order amid coronavirus
"Given tens of millions of Americans are out of work right now and we're battling a virus that spreads through human-to-human transmission I am dying to hear one coherent argument against this," wrote Spectator USA's Washington editor Amber Athey.
What does 'suspend immigration' mean and who does it apply to? New immigrants? Illegal immigrants? Current green card holders? See, here is one of the many problems with Trump's horrendous leadership. He manages as if he is producing a TV show..."make sure you tune in to see what's next". That is not effective leadership...effective leadership involves communicating with clarity. That is especially true in a crisis.
Here is yet another example of how poorly Donald Trump communicates and acts:
-Governors, both Democrat and Republican, say they need more capacity for testing. Not only do they need test kits, they need chemicals, access to labs, etc.
Governors: "We need to ramp up testing to be able to have the data needed to open up. The response of the federal government has not been good enough"
Fauci: "We need to increase testing capacity by two to probably three times what it is right now."
Pence works closely with the governors and, my guess, with various suppliers to ramp this up. From anything that I can see, Pence is doing a good job in that he does not deny the problem or let politics get in the way...he just works the problem.
Trump's response: "Democrats are playing a dangerous political game" and "we're in very good shape on testing".
Quote from: vu84v2 on April 21, 2020, 07:59:36 AM
Quote from: wh on April 21, 2020, 01:02:31 AM
Trump to 'suspend immigration into the United States' by executive order amid coronavirus
"Given tens of millions of Americans are out of work right now and we're battling a virus that spreads through human-to-human transmission I am dying to hear one coherent argument against this," wrote Spectator USA's Washington editor Amber Athey.
What does 'suspend immigration' mean and who does it apply to? New immigrants? Illegal immigrants? Current green card holders? See, here is one of the many problems with Trump's horrendous leadership. He manages as if he is producing a TV show..."make sure you tune in to see what's next". That is not effective leadership...effective leadership involves communicating with clarity. That is especially true in a crisis.
Are you completely tone deaf?
U.S. now has 22 million unemployed, wiping out a decade of job gains"More than 22 million Americans have filed for unemployment aid since President Trump declared a national emergency,
a staggering loss of jobs that has wiped out a decade of employment gains and pushed families to line up at food banks as they await government help."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/04/16/unemployment-claims-coronavirus/?outputType=amp
Yes, but again...who? What types of immigrants? There are many people here legally on green cards and work visas, and many of these people bring critical skills that the U.S. lacks (in terms of knowledge and the needed volume of qualified people). There are not Americans who are qualified to fill these jobs (medical and research is a big one, but this is applicable to many other skilled positions). There are people who are on the legal path to citizenship, so what about them? If you decide to "stop immigration", are you going to go find all of these people and deport them?
The lack of clear communication creates chaos (which might be what Trump wants). But good leadership is preventing miscommunication and chaos - especially during a crisis.
Additionally, Trump is the master of getting people to look at the "shiny object". He has gotten a lot of justified criticism for delays in reacting to the crisis (see the previous history of his comments during February and March). He desperately wants to get people beyond just his blindly loyal followers to agree that blame lies elsewhere, so no blame lies with him - but people are not buying that. Thus, he just raises another contentious issue to move people's attention.
Quote from: vu84v2 on April 21, 2020, 11:09:55 AM
Yes, but again...who? What types of immigrants? There are many people here legally on green cards and work visas, and many of these people bring critical skills that the U.S. lacks (in terms of knowledge and the needed volume of qualified people). There are not Americans who are qualified to fill these jobs (medical and research is a big one, but this is applicable to many other skilled positions). There are people who are on the legal path to citizenship, so what about them? If you decide to "stop immigration", are you going to go find all of these people and deport them?
The lack of clear communication creates chaos (which might be what Trump wants). But good leadership is preventing miscommunication and chaos - especially during a crisis.
Additionally, Trump is the master of getting people to look at the "shiny object". He has gotten a lot of justified criticism for delays in reacting to the crisis (see the previous history of his comments during February and March). He desperately wants to get people beyond just his blindly loyal followers to agree that blame lies elsewhere, so no blame lies with him - but people are not buying that. Thus, he just raises another contentious issue to move people's attention.
I can picture you sitting at home cozied up to the fireplace with not a care in the world. Your paycheck keeps magically appearing in your bank account. You're biggest worry is getting bored over your 6 month "sabbatical." Kind of like elitist Nancy's biggest concerns are choosing which gourmet ice cream to choose from her commercial sized freezer in her gated mansion and doing her best to make this recovery as difficult as possible in order to make President Trump look as bad as possible.
Would you like to hear what life's like for a good friend of mine who owns a 3-chair barber shop who is completely broke? Of course you wouldn't. You would rather talk about immigrants.
vu84v2 - yes there are immigrants providing technical skills, they are also providing technical skills at a cost lower than citizens. This may not sound PC, but corporations exploit this.
Quote from: usc4valpo on April 21, 2020, 12:42:59 PM
vu84v2 - yes there are immigrants providing technical skills, they are also providing technical skills at a cost lower than citizens. This may not sound PC, but corporations exploit this.
There are clearly cases in which what you are saying is true, especially when you roll in outsourcing and offshoring. But many companies that I am familiar with pay the same to immigrants and U.S. citizens. They often can't find enough talent or hire the best available person who might be someone from another country. Beyond that, the vast complexities of the global economy often make it impractical to not outsource and offshore.
Look at universities, who employ a lot of immigrants as professors. Why is that? Because there are not many Americans willing to devote the time and effort to get the necessary training (PhD, etc.). But the demand for advanced education is there and universities need to meet the demand - so many people from other countries come here to get a PhD and then get hired as professors.
Quote from: wh on April 21, 2020, 11:39:40 AM
Quote from: vu84v2 on April 21, 2020, 11:09:55 AM
Yes, but again...who? What types of immigrants? There are many people here legally on green cards and work visas, and many of these people bring critical skills that the U.S. lacks (in terms of knowledge and the needed volume of qualified people). There are not Americans who are qualified to fill these jobs (medical and research is a big one, but this is applicable to many other skilled positions). There are people who are on the legal path to citizenship, so what about them? If you decide to "stop immigration", are you going to go find all of these people and deport them?
The lack of clear communication creates chaos (which might be what Trump wants). But good leadership is preventing miscommunication and chaos - especially during a crisis.
Additionally, Trump is the master of getting people to look at the "shiny object". He has gotten a lot of justified criticism for delays in reacting to the crisis (see the previous history of his comments during February and March). He desperately wants to get people beyond just his blindly loyal followers to agree that blame lies elsewhere, so no blame lies with him - but people are not buying that. Thus, he just raises another contentious issue to move people's attention.
I can picture you sitting at home cozied up to the fireplace with not a care in the world. Your paycheck keeps magically appearing in your bank account. You're biggest worry is getting bored over your 6 month "sabbatical." Kind of like elitist Nancy's biggest concerns are choosing which gourmet ice cream to choose from her commercial sized freezer in her gated mansion and doing her best to make this recovery as difficult as possible in order to make President Trump look as bad as possible.
Would you like to hear what life's like for a good friend of mine who owns a 3-chair barber shop who is completely broke? Of course you wouldn't. You would rather talk about immigrants.
If it makes you happy, I spend more hours working now than I did prior to the crisis. And I did not start the discussion on immigration (you did) - I just feel that I do not want to let your one-sided (and sometimes deranged) views go unabated.
That said, I am 100% more concerned about your friend who owns the barber shop and the many smaller, often independent businesses in this country. Programs the government has implemented are sorely needed to keep as many businesses as possible sustained. And I wish we didn't need these programs...but the data, lack of testing capacity, etc. indicates we can't go very far yet in opening the country. Almost every top economist in this country says that opening too early, in a manner that creates a new outbreak and further shutdowns, makes everything worse economically. You would probably say that the governor of Georgia is right in opening businesses in his state to the degree he announced, and I would say that the data from IHME and elsewhere indicates he is wrong. But I sincerely hope that he (and probably you) are right and I am wrong.
https://twitter.com/parscale/status/1252369647338319878?s=20
Quote from: vu84v2 on April 21, 2020, 01:39:13 PMI would say that the data from IHME and elsewhere indicates he is wrong.
The data from IHME has been really bad in its modeling here in Indiana. On Monday the 13th IHME issued a new statistical model for Indiana, it showed that Indiana had reached its resource peak on Wednesday April 8th. Since I helped develop the software that some of the larger counties in Indiana use for Vital Records, I tried to explain to the Doctor that sent me the report that the reason for the decline in reporting was probably due to Holy Week and the fact that Indiana had done a VERY poor job of testing outside of Marion County. The new model excitedly showed new projected deaths for Indiana would be 606 by early August down from their original projection of 1681 deaths. I tried to explain that this new model seemed overly optimistic and that once testing increased in Allen, Lake, St. Joseph and Vanderburgh counties numbers would go up. Yes, just eight days later we have blown through that 606 deaths by August projection and deaths in Indiana now stand at 630 on April 21st. Doing modeling without knowing how the data is being collected is a recipe for inaccuracy. So even Bill Gates can get it wrong sometimes. I don't know about the IHME data from Georgia, I would think that if their data is anything like Indiana I would rely more on local knowledge of the situation. I personally would think this is too early for any extensive reopening of areas where large groups could get together.
Information on COVID-19 in Porter County by township.
Just in case you were wondering how many cases were in your own town in Porter County, we discovered a website by the Porter County Government that tella you exactly that. (updated daily)
There are also several informative links available as well, that we have included in this post.
Find the most current COVID-19 information, updates, guidance and resources along with the practices that the Porter County government has established to reduce the risk of spreading the virus. More information is being added as it becomes available, so please check back often.
As of April 20th, there are 191 Positive Cases in Porter county. This map breaks it down per township.
https://panoramanow.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/porter-county-indiana-positive-covid-19-cases-per-township.jpg
Top 6 townships:
Portage 79 positive, total population 47,085, .16%
Washington 36 positive, total population 4,963, .73%
Center 27 positive, total population 44,784, .06%
Westchester 14 positive, total population 20,717, .07%
Liberty 11 positive, total population 9,700, .11%
Union 10 positive, total population 9,050, .11%
This info was shared by my relative in Valpo.
EDIT: It was explained to me that the reason that Washington Twp has an usual amount of COVID-19 positive cases is because the Porter County jail sits barely in Washington Twp on the east side of Hwy 49 just south of US 30 by the county fairgrounds. There have been a large amount of COVID-19 cases reported at the jail. I was not familiar with the jail being close to the fairgrounds.
Quote from: vu84v2 on April 21, 2020, 01:39:13 PM
If it makes you happy, I spend more hours working now than I did prior to the crisis. And I did not start the discussion on immigration (you did) - I just feel that I do not want to let your one-sided (and sometimes deranged) views go unabated.
I'm also among those working from home that is putting in 12 hour days to do everything I can to keep my company afloat. I'm also tired of people asking me if I'm doing home improvement projects or binge-watching Netflix with my "time off". I'm not taking time off, I'm just working (more) from home.
With that said, I fully respect the concerns of those who can't work from home. My hope is that when the economy opens that it is done in a responsible manner. If socially distancing and other precautions aren't followed, I fear we'll be back to another lockdown. I hope we can get businesses reopened, but I don't think everything will be back to "normal" anytime soon.
Quote from: EddieCabot on April 21, 2020, 10:24:37 PM
Quote from: vu84v2 on April 21, 2020, 01:39:13 PM
If it makes you happy, I spend more hours working now than I did prior to the crisis. And I did not start the discussion on immigration (you did) - I just feel that I do not want to let your one-sided (and sometimes deranged) views go unabated.
I'm also among those working from home that is putting in 12 hour days to do everything I can to keep my company afloat. I'm also tired of people asking me if I'm doing home improvement projects or binge-watching Netflix with my "time off". I'm not taking time off, I'm just working (more) from home.
With that said, I fully respect the concerns of those who can't work from home. My hope is that when the economy opens that it is done in a responsible manner. If socially distancing and other precautions aren't followed, I fear we'll be back to another lockdown. I hope we can get businesses reopened, but I don't think everything will be back to "normal" anytime soon.
My criticism wasn't directed at people who have gone from working at the job site to working at home. 84-2 has said he's a college instructor. Most college instructors have gone from having the summer off to having the spring and summer off, thus my reference to a 6-month "sabbatical." I'm not sure what 84-2 could be doing to keep him busier than ever unless he picked up part time jobs at Walmart and Home Depot, but maybe there's more to his story than just teaching. Speaking of which, a nephew of mine and his wife teach at an area high school. Both are now on a 6-month vacation without a care in the world. I don't begrudge them their time off at all. I do begrudge them for their sanctimonious Facebook posts spewing their liberal nonsense about people who are pushing to get the economy up and running are selfish and don't care how many people fall victim to the virus. They should just set the alarm for Sept. and go back to sleep.
This is complete B.S. Yes, I am a college professor. And like college professors at Valparaiso and any other university, I still have to teach all of my classes and do all of the associated work (as I should be required to do). All of my instruction has to be converted to online...which takes more time than if I were teaching in the classroom. I have all of my other obligations (the main one is research productivity) - but that is my job. I am not saying that my work is physically demanding or that it is heroic like medical workers, but it is essential that it be done well for the students - and even more for the university. You like Valparaiso University? If professors at Valparaiso don't do their damn best under these circumstances, then students don't get the value that they paid for. They don't get necessary learning and subsequently don't pay tuition (if this extends into the Fall). Then the university closes...forever! Professors at Valparaiso that I have talked with know this and are doing everything they can. It is no different where I teach (also a private university) and thus the situation for myself and professors at my university is the same. So perhaps you might want to know what the F$#% you're talking about before you say that professors are sitting around like they are on some form of sabbatical.
And just to inform you, I am a tenure-track professor. Do you know what you call a tenure-track professor who takes the summer off? Unemployed. Again, I am not at all saying that I have challenges as difficult as a small business owner - but you really need to know what you are talking about when you start making claims about professors.
And my opinion of your nephew and his wife who teach high school (if they are indeed sitting around doing nothing)? They are completely irresponsible and are not fit to be teachers at any level.
Another miss step by the President. The VA has just finished a test on hyrochloroquine based on over 300 covid patients taking the drug, It found that the drug has no benefit on keeping you off ventilators and actually 28% died taking the drug compared to 11% who did not take the drug.
OK, a few things...
1. I see his faults, but quit slamming Trump on how this is being handled. This is a chaotic situation and data and information is very fluid. For anyone this is as challenging a situation any person can handle. He has put his foot in his mouth, but the political demands from the Dems is not helping. We need to work together to get thorugh this mess.
2. My wife is a teacher and now unemployed and not on a holiday. Teachers are generally concerned about their students and they are using Zoom and Skype so students can keep up. The 6 month vacation for teachers is the exception rather than the rule, and if teachers are not enabling education and treating it as a vacation, then IMO they are a discredit to the profession. Teachers for the most part are committed to education.
RS - I worked in healthcare, and result like this can happen in clinical studies. There was hope, and the study was worith the effort and had to be done. No guaranteed solution was proposed.
Quote from: usc4valpo on April 22, 2020, 09:21:41 AM
RS - I worked in healthcare, and result like this can happen in clinical studies. There was hope, and the study was worith the effort and had to be done. No guaranteed solution was proposed.
True, and the study should have been done. The fault lies with Trump interjecting his "personal opinion" that this drug was going to be the answer. He has zero medical or research in his background yet chose to give hope to many and as a result some hoarded the drug to the detriment of those people (arthritis and lupus) who truly need it. Why can't he let Pence do the numbers update and the doctors do the medical update and leave it at that? It would serve him best politically and give the doctors a couple of more hours a day to do their job.
Quote from: usc4valpo on April 22, 2020, 09:08:41 AM1. I see his faults, but quit slamming Trump on how this is being handled. This is a chaotic situation and data and information is very fluid. For anyone this is as challenging a situation any person can handle. He has put his foot in his mouth, but the political demands from the Dems is not helping. We need to work together to get thorugh this mess.
Do you feel that NY Governor Cuomo has to govern during a chaotic and fluid situation? Cuomo is leading a state in the most covid-19 struck area of the world. Is he putting his foot in his mouth?
Quote from: vu72 on April 22, 2020, 10:16:04 AM
Quote from: usc4valpo on April 22, 2020, 09:21:41 AM
RS - I worked in healthcare, and result like this can happen in clinical studies. There was hope, and the study was worith the effort and had to be done. No guaranteed solution was proposed.
True, and the study should have been done. (1) The fault lies with Trump interjecting his "personal opinion" that this drug was going to be the answer. He has zero medical or research in his background yet chose to give hope to many (2)and as a result some hoarded the drug to the detriment of those people (arthritis and lupus) who truly need it. (3) Why can't he let Pence do the numbers update and the doctors do the medical update and leave it at that? It would serve him best politically and give the doctors a couple of more hours a day to do their job.
(1) I recall him pointing to anecdotal evidence and saying "it's worth a try," and "what do we have to lose." That's a far cry from "this drug is going to be the answer." Also, many doctors actively treating patients with coronavirus have had very positive things to say about it publicly. There have been a ton of personal testimonials from individuals who were seriously ill who turned the corner after receiving the malaria drug cocktail. The biggest concern I recall doctors treating patients having is not knowing what dosage to use at what frequency. that kind of thing.
(2) I don't ever recall hearing that use of the drug for coronavirus kept people with arthritis and lupus from getting it. I do recall hearing speculation fueled by the Trump-hating media that it could. To my knowledge, that never materialized or came anywhere close.
(3) If Trump was not present at these briefings, the media spin would be that he should be leading the effort, that he doesn't care enough about what's happening, that this is far too important to hand down, that states weren't getting what they need because he wasn't personally pressuring anyone to get the job done, that Pence is really the President - Trump is just a figurehead, he's too dumb, or aloof, or prideful to admit that we have a major problem, blah, blah, blah. I can picture in-the-tank leftist "reporters" like Acosta (supposedly a straight news reporter) posing loaded either/or questions to Pence like "The states aren't getting the ventilators they need. Would you say President Trump is more to blame because he's totally uninvolved in the process, or you're to blame because you're in over your head?" The bottom line is if you're in a room filled with adversaries whose mission in life is to destroy you, don't EVER delegate your defense to a subordinate. Trump knows full well that every day he is in a fight for his very survival with a morally corrupt opposition party and their minions in the media, Hollywood, academia, globalists, race baiters, abortion industry, drug runners, illegal aliens, Christian bashers, Israel haters, marxists, communists - I could go on for an hour.
Quote from: wh on April 22, 2020, 11:31:31 AM(2) I don't ever recall hearing that use of the drug for coronavirus kept people with arthritis and lupus from getting it. I do recall hearing speculation fueled by the Trump-hating media that it could. To my knowledge, that never materialized or came anywhere close.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/barr-warns-hoarders-of-masks-and-drugs-that-trump-has-touted/ar-BB11I6ZP
Another story from Texas:
AUSTIN, Texas — The Texas State Board of Pharmacy issued an emergency rule limiting certain drugs. These drugs fight malaria, lupus and rheumatoid arthritis.
"The first thing in the morning, the phone started ringing and emails started coming in," said Allison Benz, executive director/secretary for the Texas State Board of Pharmacy.
Kroger Is Enforcing A 5-item Limit On Certain Items
The board regulates all pharmacies and pharmacists in Texas.
Benz said pharmacies around the state started asking for help because they were flooded with prescriptions they don't see often.
It came the day after President Donald Trump said the drugs may help treat COVID-19.
The prescriptions were for chloroquine, hydroxychloroquine, mefloquine and azithromycin. These meds typically are used to treat malaria, lupus and rheumatoid arthritis.
"These medications, for the most part, are ones you're probably not going to get a prescription even every day, let alone like two or three. They are getting nine, 14, you know, by lunchtime," said Benz.
Quote from: valpo64 on May 05, 2020, 05:30:32 PM
If the basketball season is affected, which it shouldn't be, you are going to have a lot more to worry about than sports. The viability of some colleges and universities will be hanging in the balance. and some will close their doors if students do not return to campus in the Fall. This close down has to end soon or this country is in deep doo-doo. As long as some of the press, some academia and some in the public health sector keep promoting shut down instead of concern for getting the economy back up and running, people are going to run scared. What are we going to do in the Fall when the regular flu season returns on it's annual basis? Shut downs, masks, social distances, gloves , etc. every time someone sneezes, coughs, or has a fever? Many seem to be oblivious to common sense these days. While some precautions need to be practiced right now, lets not blow this all out of proportion.
And drop the Mic! 100% onboard with common sense here. We are not evolved enough in medicine to begin to think we can entirely control the world we live in. The business world is quite aware of what risk and reward is, as they deal with it on a daily basis. We should continue to consider what medical science knows today but we also have to make a business decision at some point and I think it's fairly safe to say that Sweden didn't fall apart so continue to open up intelligently and realize we may have jumped the gun on this one.
I'm sure we'll argue for decades about the response to this. But it has been interesting watching the old Isaac Asimov quote playing out in real time. Ironic since I first read this while at Vu.
" There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."
......and yet its been proven in the last 2 months by our math-challenged medical researchers (vast over-prediction of fatalities), our frenetic click-thirsty media, and our permanently employed government workers that Will Rogers was right. "There is nothing so uncommon as common sense."
Hi just a reminder that there may be people in this chat who have family members or close friends who have been sicken by or even died by this virus. Maybe out of respect of both this being not a politics forum and that we don't know what others are going for we don't turn this into a weird partisan fight
I just want to escape from my crazy kids and ever so loving wife for 20 minutes a day and read about Valpo basketball! Then I'll go back to this crazy world we all live in now.
I sure did not mean to disrespect anyone regarding suffering the consequences of the "virus" as I have a friend who suffered from it. I am sorry if I offended anyone in this regard.
Quote from: valpo64 on May 05, 2020, 08:40:44 PM
I sure did not mean to disrespect anyone regarding suffering the consequences of the "virus" as I have a friend who suffered from it. I am sorry if I offended anyone in this regard.
'64, You have nothing to apologize for. What you said is correct, and you weren't being insensitive in saying it.
This discussion is a microcosm of what happens every day across the national political landscape. Dems intentionally slow-play the recovery in order to damage Trump's chances for re-election, then shame anyone who dares express that we need to get our economy back on track. What happens nationally and what happened to you are identical in that both are consistent with a long established, deeply ingrained anarchical tactic:
"Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it."
Rules for Radicals, Rule No. 13
By Saul D. Alinsky, Anarchist
This tactic is part of a larger counter cultural theme recently parroted by Hilary Clinton called "Never let a crisis go to waste". It's political sleaze perpetrated by the left, nothing more. Pay no attention to it.
The problem is that we have zero national strategy. We can't even get people to wear masks.
Then the President says this--"I think we're doing very well on the vaccines but, with or without a vaccine, it's going to pass, and we're going to be back to normal," Trump said. Does this sound familiar? Remember back on March 10 when he said this:"It will go away, just stay calm," Mr. Trump said of the coronavirus Tuesday. He added, "Be calm. It's really working out. And a lot of good things are going to happen." Clearly he is way over his head. That isn't a knock, it is reality.
In the meantime we are adding 25,000 cases a day and losing 2,000 Americans. The states are fighting their own battles for testing. This isn't trying to "shame" anyone. It is trying to save lives.
Quote from: wh on May 06, 2020, 05:49:27 AMThis discussion is a microcosm of what happens every day across the national political landscape. Dems intentionally slow-play the recovery in order to damage Trump's chances for re-election, then shame anyone who dares express that we need to get our economy back on track. What happens nationally and what happened to you are identical in that both are consistent with a long established, deeply ingrained anarchical tactic:
"Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it."
Rules for Radicals, Rule No. 13
By Saul D. Alinsky, Anarchist
This tactic is part of a larger counter cultural theme recently parroted by Hilary Clinton called "Never let a crisis go to waste". It's political sleaze perpetrated by the left, nothing more. Pay no attention to it.
So this is nonsense. Governor Hogan in Maryland and Governor DeWine in Ohio contradict your conspiracy theory.
Are you denying this existence of the virus? It's dangerousness? The fact that's it's killed 70,000 Americans the last two months?
Why didn't Trump do anything the past two months to prevent Democrats from "slow-playing" the recovery? He could have taken steps, like testing and tracing, that would have convinced folks that they could be safe. But he didn't do any of that.
Instead the plan is to do nothing and just sacrifice people to Mammon. He all but admitted that this morning.
But yes, tell us more how this is all just a plot to hurt Trump.
Here is a plan that is linked to a strategy:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/openingamerica/
You could quibble with some minor details, but it makes sense and makes reasonable attempts to balance health and economic issues.
The problem is that you have a President who immediately refutes the plan that his administration wrote (Liberate _____!) and states that don't follow those guidelines. Lack of any degree of leadership leads to a far worse situation economically and healthwise.
The President had a golden opportunity to wrap up the Nov. election with more decisive "leadership" at the beginning the the crisis which continues to this day. Define "leadership" however you wish but had he stood up in front of the country and explained that the country had a problem which needed to be addressed immediately he'd certainly be in better standing with some today than he is other than those prone to follow his every word.
Instead, by downplaying the problem, he allowed for doubt to creep in to the message which those who follow him are more prone to believe to this day. In some form of "this isn't that big of a deal". He continues this currently with many mixed messages, seeming to go against what he's being advised to do, recommending or even mentioning medical treatments which have either not been fully vetted, proven to some degree to be ineffective or downright nuts to even suggest. All this does is bolster what his followers believe and galvanize those who think he's incompetent.
While he's clearly completely consumed by the Nov election, he's probably miscalculated in how he could have sewn it up and now is likely in a dogfight at best.
Well, I see I'm unable to win everyone over on that topic, so let's try something different. I was in the checkout line last night at Stracks behind a young 30-ish couple who had their little masks perfectly in place. As the checker was ringing up their purchases, she asked if they would like to "round up" for Meals on Wheels. The guy replied with an emphatic "No!" - said with a somewhat dismissive/disgusted tone. I immediately thought to myself - self-absorbed, millennial Democrats.
Group question: What are the odds I was right? 9:1? 10:0?
Note: If you detour onto the road of sanctimony, please answer the question before you end your journey.
JD24 - All good points. In fact, I agree that he had a golden opportunity to sew up the election by handling this as an effective executive. Your points on mixed and inappropriate messaging are absolutely right. I would add that, in terms of executive leadership, he fails miserably in projecting specific detailed progress on key issues. Any senior executive knows that you don't just say "we're doing a great job" and "we have lots of ______". You say, here is the situation and we need this amount of something over this period of time. Then, you say we are not there yet...we only have X% of what is needed. Next, you say here is our plan over time to eliminate the gap. Then, every update reviews progress on that plan. As the senior most executive, he shouldn't review the granular details - but all comments should be directly tied to that plan.
The big issue now is testing and tracing. Short of a vaccine, they are essential to getting the economy (and definitely universities) going in a meaningful way. The federal, state and local governments can say whatever they want - but will people go back with so much uncertainty? (of course, a few well - but not enough to revive businesses and the economy) Will parents allow their children to attend college in person if the university does not know the current spread of infection in and around the university and has no way of detecting and isolating cases quickly? Yet, despite how critical testing and tracing is to a meaningful reopening of the economy, there is no stated plan of what is needed - let alone any plan or progress reviewed towards meeting what is needed. This is not a Federal issue, state issue, local issue, private organization issue...this is an everyone issue. Everyone will succeed or fail together.
Quote from: wh on May 06, 2020, 11:58:56 AMa young 30-ish couple who had their little masks perfectly in place.
Bigger question: Did you have your little mask on?
Quote from: vu84v2 on May 06, 2020, 12:10:46 PMThe big issue now is testing and tracing.
Testing is helpful but it has significant limitations. You can test negative one day, and be positive the next. What then? You can't test everyone every day. Self-testing has limitations too. Many people will not be willing to stick the swab far enough up their nose or far enough down their throat to get a reliable sample.
The daily number of infections is becoming less of an indicator now of how rampant the virus is since more people are being tested now than, for instance, the beginning or middle of April.
If by "testing" you are referring to antibody testing, then I think that is much more useful since it will provide a much clearer picture on how many people have been infected with the virus. If, as several small sample antibody testing results have indicated, a significant percentage of the population has already been infected, then that will reduce the mortality rate, which in turn might impact state-and nationwide plans to reopen going forward.
Paul
I've hesitated to weigh in on this topic, yet there are a few points that need to be emphasized.
1) On President Trump, the single worst thing he has done was to insert himself into the daily briefings. He should have let he public health experts be more prominent all the way through, which would have de-politicized a public health crisis. He could have attended those briefings, perhaps taking questions once a week, or limiting his comments to "We are looking closely at the data; it is a fluid and complex situation, and we all should follow the advice of our experts for the good of our country." Instead, short comments (be they tweets or offhand remarks after a briefing) as President Trump processes information or news have not served him or the public especially well.
2) Several other politicians, such as Mayor de Blasio, Governor Cuomo and Joe Biden have made foolish and irresponsible statements. For example, on March 2, de Blasio tweeted, "to go on with your lives + get out on the town despite Coronavirus" and on March 11, he was, "telling people to not avoid restaurants, not avoid normal things that people do. ... If you're not sick, you should be going about your life." Those tweets are not going to age well. Similarly, Candidate Biden on January 31 and in a similar tweet on Feb 1 criticized President Trump for closing down direct flights to Wuhan, referring to Trump's "...record of hysteria xenophobia, hysterical xenophobia, and fear-mongering to lead the way instead of science." Of course, it is difficult to pin down exactly what Mr. Biden meant, but in context, many people (including the WHO) were critical of travel restrictions.
3) More important to our future, we have to get out of an either/or mentality. We have seen governors foolishly require roping-off the garden section of a large retail store because it was not deemed life-sustaining in one state but acceptable by other states. However, buying vegetable seeds or not doing so did virtually nothing to stem the tide of infection. If the stores were open at all, the risk of a customer adding some seeds to his/her shopping basket is virtually zero.
Similarly, we should not be talking about open or closed states or open/closed economies. We have to be thinking about reasonable risks. For example, near where I work is a large construction site for a new biosciences building. When our state closed down, construction stopped for seven weeks and only returned on Monday. Yet look at these risks - these workers already were wearing long pants, boots, hardhats, gloves and safety glasses, and most of the work is outside. So adding masks and encouraging social distancing on the jobsite does allow work to progress. This doesn't mean zero risk - it is possible more people will be infected and some might die because construction re-started at that site. Yet it doesn't make sense to keep a site like that closed for months and hundreds of (thus far) reasonably healthy workers drawing unemployment for such a minuscule reduction in risk.
Will things return to normal? Yes, though there will be some differences in the interim - we will be wearing masks in public, and avoiding large gatherings for some time. We must balance reasonable risks with the need to move forward.
Quote from: wh on May 06, 2020, 11:58:56 AMWell, I see I'm unable to win everyone over on that topic, so let's try something different. I was in the checkout line last night at Stracks behind a young 30-ish couple who had their little masks perfectly in place. As the checker was ringing up their purchases, she asked if they would like to "round up" for Meals on Wheels. The guy replied with an emphatic "No!" - said with a somewhat dismissive/disgusted tone. I immediately thought to myself - self-absorbed, millennial Democrats.
Well this is quite the non-sequitor.
Quote from: valpo95 on May 06, 2020, 03:14:01 PMSimilarly, we should not be talking about open or closed states or open/closed economies. We have to be thinking about reasonable risks. For example, near where I work is a large construction site for a new biosciences building. When our state closed down, construction stopped for seven weeks and only returned on Monday. Yet look at these risks - these workers already were wearing long pants, boots, hardhats, gloves and safety glasses, and most of the work is outside. So adding masks and encouraging social distancing on the jobsite does allow work to progress. This doesn't mean zero risk - it is possible more people will be infected and some might die because construction re-started at that site. Yet it doesn't make sense to keep a site like that closed for months and hundreds of (thus far) reasonably healthy workers drawing unemployment for such a minuscule reduction in risk.
Yes, you begin to take reasonable risks when there are precautions in place. That hasn't happened. The federal government sat around for 8 weeks while people stayed at home. Now the plan appears to open everything back up and hope for the best.
Dem state economies have been in shutdown mode for nearly 2 months now with no end in sight. Unemployment in many areas is as high as 30% or more. Businesses are bleeding red. Many small businesses with short cash runways have already collapsed or are on the verge of collapse. Practically overnight we've added trillions of dollars to our national debt.
With this said, how much longer should the Dem slow players continue to lockdown their states?
• A week?
• Month?
• Year?
• Until we get a vaccine?
• After the presidential election?
• Until it affects me personally?
• Until we get more testing (recognizing that we don't yet have a clue as to how much more testing is realistic, how mass testing would work logistically, how long it would take, or what the benefit would be)?
• Or (my personal favorite), however long it takes to keep everyone safe?
Again, your characterization of this as a partisan issue is incorrect. The governors of Ohio and Maryland are Republicans and those states are still under lockdown.
You assume that if a lockdown is lifted, the economy will suddenly spring back. But that's not going to happen until people are confident the virus is under control. And there's no amount of bluffing that can cause that to happen. Why? Because with over 70,000 dead, most Americans have been affected or know someone affected so they know how serious it is.
And we do know how testing and tracing could look. Other countries were able to get things under control. Yes, there will alway be an element of risk but there are ways to mitigate that risk.
That hasn't been done so now we're prepared to sacrifice the weak. I'm not ready to accept the pro-death position.
Perhaps an indication of optimism or hope, Valparaiso University announces a schedule of six in-person campus Focus sessions between July 6 and July 17 for incoming students and their families: "At Valpo, personal interactions are extremely important to us, and we know students are ready to spend time with new friends in person. Our goal is to have FOCUS new student orientation in person, on campus, while exercising the necessary precautions to continue to limit the spread of COVID-19."
The lifting of the lockdown order does not mean it is any safer to go out today than it was a week ago, it simply means they have made room in the healthcare system to hospitalize you when you do get sick. A large percentage of the population is going to stay away from heavily used public spaces like restaurants for a long long time regardless of a lockdown being in place or not. And what is this exemption for churches on the half capacity rule? Restaurants and malls and the like must operate at half capacity, but churches do not. Is coronavirus allergic to churches? Does it not spread in between church walls?
Other countries (See Germany and Italy)completely shut down their whole country for a month and a half and are going to be returning to almost normal life soon, with probably the continued use of masks and gloves. They had to shut down businesses for that time period but they were able to survive for the most part AND they have absolutely thwarted the virus. The US on the other hand couldn't sit down and make a responsible decision, and instead decided to not really shut down but not really open up and so we are seeing a situation where we turned the curve from exponential to linear but aren't actually turning the curve around. We missed the opportunity to have a quicker, more strict, shutdown that would get less people sick and allow businesses to reopen soon. Instead, we have forced ourself into a situation where we aren't seeing a decrease in new cases AND we aren't getting any closer to being to reopen businesses safely, we are just dragging out the process. And now we are reopening when we aren't even at our peak. If we were going to do that, then why did we even shut down? It's just begging for cases to start growing exponentially again.
After 3 1/2 years of failed fraudulent endeavors by morally bankrupt democrats to bring down the President of the United States, they may have received some hopeful news:
Trump valet tests positive for coronavirus
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-valet-tests-positive-for-coronavirus
I know I am probably in the minority here, but with my wife being the head of a Life Sciences department and a daughter on the front-line in Washington DC, it is frustrating to not hear or see data in its proper context. I know that DC is worse than Indiana, but some of the stories we are hearing first hand are frightening. Complications from this virus are still very unknown and our daughter says very unlike any respiratory virus she has seen. Since I work with Indiana County Health Departments and their Vital Records software recording deaths, investigating the best prediction models has become a project for me so I thought I would do some sharing of data from May 6th. In my opinion Indiana has been pretty slow and low in its testing, especially here in Allen County. Until the drive through testing was opened here about 2 1/2 weeks ago Allen County was worst of the 20 most populous counties in the state. To put that in context, Marion county, at that time, was testing at a rate almost 8 times that of Allen County. To be totally transparent, that difference as decreased drastically to 2.65 as of May 6th, but Allen County, the states 3rd most populous county, still ranks 49th of the 92 counties in testing. Here is some data on how Indiana is doing according to the Harvard Global Health Institute.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/YpqSaFhN8m0JIUkitbgSJh-q98OPh0TtG7-O3y9gcxPCzjhncXf0gko2gbi0I5_j1_9yaU1EyrsDEYGT1bEWt1ZfQW6gwUfLNRI3n52QaNo6l2pbFMQS-CvvSH_ZOUEPc69ikpQFSGhKNkAZbWtuCvTnj3B-RO1xCREsq4I2wMKlqbvRRucyZdzqV4uL54hDDzaF0kQYvQY65HBZie4XwPkqM6Fk1RB7tZjXcqEj-jPSd2gHC-XQsnMywcABzSWQhpulG1TvlSfVCXcYkXBr-CiwRNyarlXx210R33AZF6MvoyAVXlN34CTb0ZfPZtiPbT2dNYrnIiJk95DRZONaqAoE6f-GEZcWU_a2PzyReccQ2upjLDWYENRGWoevBAuMZ8cjXVvwH3ttTFtlabkcKKrbnZimRDeKL42BAqfQRiXoGdg-rQcy4s3mgOuakrebDKjTDp0kxE28QhY518IV4oHWeAhyfCSUvy3pHrHraCwcrjdSFHxkeCyYdEhGkXdoeHzRJ00-0O1TU8Q-lc0jOJ-nHV5Msj2UeP_yIv2KYuUw3WOYutq6jVhDJqufi7OAfKSVp3LKN7fqPCdnfKa0n7x0KOR2DAg5aJyfadIOMU4aP2SuuiUg2BH6imqxUffUJa7NaeLXOksCyEc-CrG1gVPulO0LjWjaJU3Pbib3OhOBec7WoQf0Djm1XUhM=w676-h563-no)
So don't go up to the podium and tell us we are going to reopen because here is how many new cases and deaths we had today... give us some meaningful data that instill confidence in that decision.
For those of you who think this is no worse than the flu, our total deaths from flu in Indiana during the 18-19 season was 113. Yes, in the past decade we had a flu season where deaths where over 350. Here is the link to Indiana's influenza statistics. Indiana Influenza Reports (https://www.in.gov/isdh/22104.htm) Automobile deaths for 2018 were 858. Covid-19 deaths by early August now estimated at over 5,000. Yes, that many, imagine what the toll would have been if the schools, restaurants, concerts, sporting events and churches had not closed. Just look at the infection rate in the food processing plants here in Indiana if you want to know what could have happened.
Currently the most accurate prediction model for the US has been Youyang Gu model. Here is a link to their site Covid19-Projections.com (https://covid19-projections.com/about/)
One of our family businesses (restaurants) has been hit very hard by the closures. We will be able to reopen this coming Monday at 50% capacity. Other than "all employees must wear masks and employees and patrons must practice social distancing" we have not been given any real idea as to what those instructions mean. I have heard at least 10 different ideas as to what restaurants must do during this limited reopening. Our leaders aren't being decisive and when they are one side thinks it's bad and the other thinks it's good. Can the political bias please stop. Sorry for the ramble. :crazy:
Quote from: FWalum on May 07, 2020, 11:07:11 AM
I know I am probably in the minority here, but with my wife being the head of a Life Sciences department and a daughter on the front-line in Washington DC, it is frustrating to not hear or see data in its proper context. I know that DC is worse than Indiana, but some of the stories we are hearing first hand are frightening. Complications from this virus are still very unknown and our daughter says very unlike any respiratory virus she has seen. Since I work with Indiana County Health Departments and their Vital Records software recording deaths, investigating the best prediction models has become a project for me so I thought I would do some sharing of data from May 6th. In my opinion Indiana has been pretty slow and low in its testing, especially here in Allen County. Until the drive through testing was opened here about 2 1/2 weeks ago Allen County was worst of the 20 most populous counties in the state. To put that in context, Marion county, at that time, was testing at a rate almost 8 times that of Allen County. To be totally transparent, that difference as decreased drastically to 2.65 as of May 6th, but Allen County, the states 3rd most populous county, still ranks 49th of the 92 counties in testing. Here is some data on how Indiana is doing according to the Harvard Global Health Institute.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/YpqSaFhN8m0JIUkitbgSJh-q98OPh0TtG7-O3y9gcxPCzjhncXf0gko2gbi0I5_j1_9yaU1EyrsDEYGT1bEWt1ZfQW6gwUfLNRI3n52QaNo6l2pbFMQS-CvvSH_ZOUEPc69ikpQFSGhKNkAZbWtuCvTnj3B-RO1xCREsq4I2wMKlqbvRRucyZdzqV4uL54hDDzaF0kQYvQY65HBZie4XwPkqM6Fk1RB7tZjXcqEj-jPSd2gHC-XQsnMywcABzSWQhpulG1TvlSfVCXcYkXBr-CiwRNyarlXx210R33AZF6MvoyAVXlN34CTb0ZfPZtiPbT2dNYrnIiJk95DRZONaqAoE6f-GEZcWU_a2PzyReccQ2upjLDWYENRGWoevBAuMZ8cjXVvwH3ttTFtlabkcKKrbnZimRDeKL42BAqfQRiXoGdg-rQcy4s3mgOuakrebDKjTDp0kxE28QhY518IV4oHWeAhyfCSUvy3pHrHraCwcrjdSFHxkeCyYdEhGkXdoeHzRJ00-0O1TU8Q-lc0jOJ-nHV5Msj2UeP_yIv2KYuUw3WOYutq6jVhDJqufi7OAfKSVp3LKN7fqPCdnfKa0n7x0KOR2DAg5aJyfadIOMU4aP2SuuiUg2BH6imqxUffUJa7NaeLXOksCyEc-CrG1gVPulO0LjWjaJU3Pbib3OhOBec7WoQf0Djm1XUhM=w676-h563-no)
So don't go up to the podium and tell us we are going to reopen because here is how many new cases and deaths we had today... give us some meaningful data that instill confidence in that decision.
For those of you who think this is no worse than the flu, our total deaths from flu in Indiana during the 18-19 season was 113. Yes, in the past decade we had a flu season where deaths where over 350. Here is the link to Indiana's influenza statistics. Indiana Influenza Reports (https://www.in.gov/isdh/22104.htm) Automobile deaths for 2018 were 858. Covid-19 deaths by early August now estimated at over 5,000. Yes, that many, imagine what the toll would have been if the schools, restaurants, concerts, sporting events and churches had not closed. Just look at the infection rate in the food processing plants here in Indiana if you want to know what could have happened.
Currently the most accurate prediction model for the US has been Youyang Gu model. Here is a link to their site Covid19-Projections.com (https://covid19-projections.com/about/)
One of our family businesses (restaurants) has been hit very hard by the closures. We will be able to reopen this coming Monday at 50% capacity. Other than "all employees must wear masks and employees and patrons must practice social distancing" we have not been given any real idea as to what those instructions mean. I have heard at least 10 different ideas as to what restaurants must do during this limited reopening. Our leaders aren't being decisive and when they are one side thinks it's bad and the other thinks it's good. Can the political bias please stop. Sorry for the ramble. :crazy:
Thanks for your real life input, it's invaluable in a time where most headlines are reporting on the craziest 1% of stories out there. Keep us informed as you can please. Because it's clear you have more real time examples than any of us could ask for in the embellishment of media today.
Quote from: wh on May 07, 2020, 11:05:58 AM
After 3 1/2 years of failed fraudulent endeavors by morally bankrupt democrats to bring down the President of the United States, they may have received some hopeful news:
Trump valet tests positive for coronavirus
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-valet-tests-positive-for-coronavirus
Someone who would rejoice in the illness or death on another person because they disagree with them is morally bankrupt. Which is exactly what you have stated in previous posts on this website. Therefore, by your argument you yourself must be morally bankrupt.
Quote from: vu84v2 on May 07, 2020, 01:07:18 PM
Quote from: wh on May 07, 2020, 11:05:58 AM
After 3 1/2 years of failed fraudulent endeavors by morally bankrupt democrats to bring down the President of the United States, they may have received some hopeful news:
Trump valet tests positive for coronavirus
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-valet-tests-positive-for-coronavirus
Someone who would rejoice in the illness or death on another person because they disagree with them is morally bankrupt. Which is exactly what you have stated in previous posts on this website. Therefore, by your argument you yourself must be morally bankrupt.
I have to admit, that is a home run comeback. lol :bowdown:
Maybe if we just prayed more things would get better
Get the :censored: outta here
If there were a God he's either inept or evil
Quote from: Valpo2013 on May 07, 2020, 09:52:46 PM
Maybe if we just prayed more things would get better
Get the :censored: outta here
If there were a God he's either inept or evil
Read Psalm 14:1
Quote from: wh on May 07, 2020, 10:13:15 PM
Quote from: Valpo2013 on May 07, 2020, 09:52:46 PM
Maybe if we just prayed more things would get better
Get the :censored: outta here
If there were a God he's either inept or evil
Read Psalm 14:1
Thanks but I've got enough fictional books to read for now...
Quote from: Valpo2013 on May 08, 2020, 05:57:21 AM
Quote from: wh on May 07, 2020, 10:13:15 PM
Quote from: Valpo2013 on May 07, 2020, 09:52:46 PM
Maybe if we just prayed more things would get better
Get the :censored: outta here
If there were a God he's either inept or evil
Read Psalm 14:1
Thanks but I've got enough fictional books to read for now...
Wow! Our resident atheist! I suppose on the Valpo board there had to be one. Sad though.
Quote from: Valpo2013 on May 08, 2020, 05:57:21 AM
Quote from: wh on May 07, 2020, 10:13:15 PM
Quote from: Valpo2013 on May 07, 2020, 09:52:46 PM
Maybe if we just prayed more things would get better
Get the :censored: outta here
If there were a God he's either inept or evil
Read Psalm 14:1
Thanks but I've got enough fictional books to read for now...
This is unnecessarily antagonist towards fellow members of the Valpo family. Let's be nice.
Thanks.
NCAA president says no fall sports unless campuses are open to all students: 'It's really that simple'
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/ncaa-president-fall-sports-return
Somewhere along the northeastern seaboard liberal hog trough, some haughty, morally narcissistic, pseudo intellectual, European anarchist descendant, college president will seize her 15 minute moment and announce to the world that she cannot in all good conscience reopen campus to all students until either there are no more reported cases of COVID-19 anywhere in the world, or a vaccine is found and proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, whichever comes last. When asked whether she is aware that her decision means the cancellation of all fall college sports in the United States, she will reply that in fact she was not, but even had she known, her decision would have remained the same. "Is selfishly indulging in a child's game worth the sacrifice of human lives? I think not!"
Georgia reports lowest number of COVID patients in a month
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/georgia-reports-lowest-number-covid-patients-in-a-month
Georgia opened up before anyone else. Wasn't this predicted to be an unmitigated disaster? Even President Trump was mad at their Governor. As someone who is anxious to see our country return to some sense of normalcy sooner rather than later, this is good news. But how will the moral narcissists react?
Moral narcissist: A liberal who projects moral superiority to discredit or dismiss conservative views. Moral narcissism is self-aggrandizing. It requires no personal evidence of adherence to high moral standards on the part of the claimant. It is pretense.
Quote from: wh on May 10, 2020, 10:58:36 AM
Georgia reports lowest number of COVID patients in a month
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/georgia-reports-lowest-number-covid-patients-in-a-month
Georgia opened up before anyone else. Wasn't this predicted to be an unmitigated disaster? Even President Trump was mad at their Governor. As someone who is anxious to see our country return to some sense of normalcy sooner rather than later, this is good news. But how will the moral narcissists react?
Moral narcissist: A liberal who projects moral superiority to discredit or dismiss conservative views. Moral narcissism is self-aggrandizing. It requires no personal evidence of adherence to high moral standards on the part of the claimant. It is pretense.
I agree with being smart while letting businesses open. And imo Sweden has done its population a great service by not putting it in lockdown and causing panic (the same panic that prevents people who have had heart attacks from going to the hospital to get treatments that would've save their lives and a myriad of other health problems).
So please do not take this the wrong way but it was my understanding that we won't see the results of this opening for between 2 to 4 weeks when any current infections peek out.
Here is a great example of Fox News reporting only the information necessary to justify the outcome they want to make and a governor doing the same to promote himself (rather than projecting an honest view of what may be going on). Here are the facts that the story did not say:
-Georgia had their second highest day of reported new cases three days ago.
-Georgia's five-day running average show just a slight decline in daily new cases. (they totally miss that you need to look at running averages to reduce anecdotal judgements from only one or two data points).
I certainly hope that they really are seeing a major decline in Georgia and I do think that we need a more balanced and nuanced approach to opening. But reporting like this is just dangerous and grossly irresponsible.
FWAlum's post made such great points that we need to rely on data (which includes understanding assumptions like how much testing was completed) and rigorous analysis...and that we need to get away from political bias.
What do you want to bet that if we double the testing, Trump haters will claim the spread is twice as bad?
Quote from: wh on May 10, 2020, 02:20:18 PM
What do you want to bet that if we double the testing, Trump haters will claim the spread is twice as bad?
Yes, it is called confirmation bias. People throughout the political spectrum have such biases and this prevents them from gaining additional data and information which might refute (of perhaps more strongly affirm) their preconceptions.
Can't wait to see what the experts...medical/science/government both National and State/academia, etc. have to say when the Fall flu season starts.
Quote from: vu84v2 on May 10, 2020, 03:57:31 PM
Quote from: wh on May 10, 2020, 02:20:18 PM
What do you want to bet that if we double the testing, Trump haters will claim the spread is twice as bad?
Yes, it is called confirmation bias. People throughout the political spectrum have such biases and this prevents them from gaining additional data and information which might refute (of perhaps more strongly affirm) their preconceptions.
Confirmation bias applies to honest differences of opinion among honest people. It does not apply to intentionally misrepresenting everything about someone because you despise them.
Quote from: wh on May 10, 2020, 11:25:33 PM
Quote from: vu84v2 on May 10, 2020, 03:57:31 PM
Quote from: wh on May 10, 2020, 02:20:18 PM
What do you want to bet that if we double the testing, Trump haters will claim the spread is twice as bad?
Yes, it is called confirmation bias. People throughout the political spectrum have such biases and this prevents them from gaining additional data and information which might refute (of perhaps more strongly affirm) their preconceptions.
Confirmation bias applies to honest differences of opinion among honest people. It does not apply to intentionally misrepresenting everything about someone because you despise them.
Well FoxNews, OAN and so-called media outlets with a strongly conservative bias have made a lot of money by making points that suit their own and their viewers' ideology and only showing data that supports their points (and intentionally omit data that might weaken the point that they want to make). More liberally oriented media does this too, but FoxNews were the kings of intentional misrepresentation and the others in conservative-oriented media are just trying to do even better with misrepresentation.
Tragically, the reported new Georgia cases on Sunday, May 10th were about 1,000 which is their second highest reported day since this all started. Should they lock everything down because of that? No, they need to look at the data more closely to consider region, amount of testing versus other days, etc. - which should drive more refined adjustments to how and where they reopen. But I would bet that Fox News is not reporting this and the governor is trying to spin this, since both parties erroneously and dangerously tried to reach a conclusion from a single anecdotal data point.
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on May 10, 2020, 11:39:53 AM
Quote from: wh on May 10, 2020, 10:58:36 AM
Georgia reports lowest number of COVID patients in a month
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/georgia-reports-lowest-number-covid-patients-in-a-month
Georgia opened up before anyone else. Wasn't this predicted to be an unmitigated disaster? Even President Trump was mad at their Governor. As someone who is anxious to see our country return to some sense of normalcy sooner rather than later, this is good news. But how will the moral narcissists react?
Moral narcissist: A liberal who projects moral superiority to discredit or dismiss conservative views. Moral narcissism is self-aggrandizing. It requires no personal evidence of adherence to high moral standards on the part of the claimant. It is pretense.
I agree with being smart while letting businesses open. And imo Sweden has done its population a great service by not putting it in lockdown and causing panic (the same panic that prevents people who have had heart attacks from going to the hospital to get treatments that would've save their lives and a myriad of other health problems).
So please do not take this the wrong way but it was my understanding that we won't see the results of this opening for between 2 to 4 weeks when any current infections peek out.
Sweden has a death rate of about 100 more per million than us, and it is significantly higher than its Scandinavian neighbors. I'm not sure that's doing their population a great service.
Quote from: wh on May 10, 2020, 10:58:36 AM
Georgia reports lowest number of COVID patients in a month
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/georgia-reports-lowest-number-covid-patients-in-a-month
Georgia opened up before anyone else. Wasn't this predicted to be an unmitigated disaster? Even President Trump was mad at their Governor. As someone who is anxious to see our country return to some sense of normalcy sooner rather than later, this is good news. But how will the moral narcissists react?
Moral narcissist: A liberal who projects moral superiority to discredit or dismiss conservative views. Moral narcissism is self-aggrandizing. It requires no personal evidence of adherence to high moral standards on the part of the claimant. It is pretense.
Serious question...Why do you feel the need to add the second paragraph? Do you find that making sweeping generalizations, or attacking characterizations and misrepresentations makes for a better discourse or quality of discussion and debate? I don't.
Quote from: valpo04 on May 11, 2020, 08:49:54 AM
Quote from: FieldGoodie05 on May 10, 2020, 11:39:53 AM
Quote from: wh on May 10, 2020, 10:58:36 AM
Georgia reports lowest number of COVID patients in a month
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/georgia-reports-lowest-number-covid-patients-in-a-month
Georgia opened up before anyone else. Wasn't this predicted to be an unmitigated disaster? Even President Trump was mad at their Governor. As someone who is anxious to see our country return to some sense of normalcy sooner rather than later, this is good news. But how will the moral narcissists react?
Moral narcissist: A liberal who projects moral superiority to discredit or dismiss conservative views. Moral narcissism is self-aggrandizing. It requires no personal evidence of adherence to high moral standards on the part of the claimant. It is pretense.
I agree with being smart while letting businesses open. And imo Sweden has done its population a great service by not putting it in lockdown and causing panic (the same panic that prevents people who have had heart attacks from going to the hospital to get treatments that would've save their lives and a myriad of other health problems).
So please do not take this the wrong way but it was my understanding that we won't see the results of this opening for between 2 to 4 weeks when any current infections peek out.
Sweden has a death rate of about 100 more per million than us, and it is significantly higher than its Scandinavian neighbors. I'm not sure that's doing their population a great service.
Quote from: valpo04 on May 11, 2020, 08:59:51 AM
Quote from: wh on May 10, 2020, 10:58:36 AM
Georgia reports lowest number of COVID patients in a month
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/georgia-reports-lowest-number-covid-patients-in-a-month
Georgia opened up before anyone else. Wasn't this predicted to be an unmitigated disaster? Even President Trump was mad at their Governor. As someone who is anxious to see our country return to some sense of normalcy sooner rather than later, this is good news. But how will the moral narcissists react?
Moral narcissist: A liberal who projects moral superiority to discredit or dismiss conservative views. Moral narcissism is self-aggrandizing. It requires no personal evidence of adherence to high moral standards on the part of the claimant. It is pretense.
Serious question...Why do you feel the need to add the second paragraph? Do you find that making sweeping generalizations, or attacking characterizations and misrepresentations makes for a better discourse or quality of discussion and debate? I don't.
This is your home, and you are a great host. Message received.
I hope the cases in Georgia are reduced over time but I think we need to be careful of declaring victory too soon anywhere. South Korea has had a flareup they are concerned about only within the last 24 hours and they've handled things about as well as any country to this point.
My own opinion is that much of the population has gone through a tough education over the past two months which was necessary in terms of how to help prevent (but certainly not eliminate) infectious diseases. The mere awareness as to how to not transfer an infectious disease by washing hands often, not touching our face, not standing on top of each other and even to the point of wearing masks in public in itself should drastically reduce cases from spreading over time. Cases of any infectious disease that is.
There was an article in Florida of how the population actually began to act prior to the Governor shutting things down which may have helped avoid more cases and deaths. This all judged by cellphone activity which has recently began to pick up. So that state will see how things go over the next two weeks now that Florida is being opened. This could lead us to look at what does "open" really mean. In Georgia as a for instance, does being open mean the population immediately ran back to "normal" as normal can be with the restrictions? It appears they did not. I don't think we really see the effects of truly being open until the general population is comfortable enough to go back to restaurants, stores, etc even at limited capacity which I don't think is happening at the moment...probably a good thing.
https://www.13wmaz.com/article/news/local/georgia/heres-what-georgias-case-curve-looks-like-as-of-may-11/93-552bab15-8073-434f-967b-0c8be13b213c
At first glance, it looks like the trend line plummets in the last two weeks, but that's not really the case.
Recently, the state started backdating cases, graphing them based not on when they're reported, but when symptoms first began.
So, for example, if you get diagnosed with COVID-19 today but your symptoms started 10 days ago, the state will graph your case 10 days ago.
With that in mind, the state warns the data in the most recent 14-day window (in the orange zone on our graph) is subject to change.
That's because new cases could be reported in the days to come that would get backdated to 14-day period.
There are some who say we shouldn't even be showing the 14-day window since the data is likely incomplete.