Alright, Ladies and Gentlemen and Fans. Make sure you tray tables and seats are in the upright position. We are coming in for the season ending game with Three possible landing spots for the MVC tournament. A calm smooth touch down is not expected, so fasten your seat belts and hold your breaths. Where we land is determined by the following:
Landing spot #1
We win at Indiana State and we are a 4 or 5 seed. Doesn't matter which one because they face off each other on Friday at 2:35PM.
Landing spot #2
We lose and Missouri State loses also, we are a 6 seed and play Friday at 8:35PM
Landing spot #3
We lose and Missouri State wins at home. We are tied and they win the try breaker via NET standings ( unless the are some DNC Caucus people tabulating the final NET standing numbers ). We are the #7 seed and play Thursday 8:35PM
Bad news for us is, Javon is most likely out and Indiana State has only lost once at home this year and Missouri State has only lost 4 times at home.
But in the words of VUGrad1314 - I BELIEVE !!! GO VALPO !!!
At the beginning of the year I mentioned that the low bar for a successful regular conference season would be a top-6 finish and avoidance of the PITS, play in Thursday session. Valpo has an opportunity to reach that minimum level.
Quote from: VUBBFan on February 27, 2020, 11:49:06 AMLanding spot #1
We win at Indiana State and we are a 4 or 5 seed.
So we lay it all on the line Sat and if victorious have to repeat the process the following Thursday against the same probable opponent. :o I absolutely hate when this happens almost to the point where I would say no thanks.
Quote from: VUBBFan on February 27, 2020, 11:49:06 AMLanding spot #2
We lose and Missouri State loses also, we are a 6 seed and play Friday at 8:35PM
I like this (probably Bradley) better than facing ISUb twice in 5 days. This holds true even while I consider Bradley to be the better opponent.
Quote from: valpopal on February 27, 2020, 11:56:26 AMLanding spot #3
We lose and Missouri State wins at home. We are tied and they win the try breaker via NET standings
A near certainty that we we play Evansville as the 7 seed and with a win would get another shot at Loyola. :thumbsup: With UNI (our worst set of matchups) likely waiting for the 4 vs 5 winner there could be deep run MVC tourney advantages for being relagated to the 6 or 7 seed. Not that I am recommending we start Pappas, Morrill, and Freese-Vilien but a loss doesn't really spook me pertaining to our prospects in St Louis.
I watched Indiana State beat up on Southern Illinois last night--on the road. The game before they beat UNI at home. With Javon out we will have a really hard time keeping up with their very athletic guards. Will need guys like Zion Morgan to really step it up on the defensive end and for us to stay hot from the 3. Possible win? Sure. Probable win? Nope.
Quote from: vu72 on February 27, 2020, 02:28:20 PM
I watched Indiana State beat up on Southern Illinois last night--on the road. The game before they beat UNI at home. With Javon out we will have a really hard time keeping up with their very athletic guards. Will need guys like Zion Morgan to really step it up on the defensive end and for us to stay hot from the 3. Possible win? Sure. Probable win? Nope.
Indiana State is playing the same rotation we faced in our previous win whereas we'll have quite a new look without JFL and with Fazekas and Sackey (whom they didn't see the last time). Fazekas and Sackey (the latter playing much better of late) will add two modes of attack at the extreme ends of the spectrum that they didn't really have to defend before. The adjustments they try to make to keep Fazekas from lighting it up from the perimeter and Sackey from speeding into the paint will open up interesting possibilities for McMikke and Clay.
The two games we have in common in most-recent play are MSU and SIU; we handily won both, at home, and they split, winning on the road, but losing at home. MSU has the athletes to deal with ISU's guards, but we didn't seem to have any problem with either team's athleticism (perhaps because we underrate our own). What I wonder is whether our hot perimeter shooting is just a result of the comfort of home or a new normal?
Quote from: Valpower on February 27, 2020, 04:40:18 PMIndiana State is playing the same rotation we faced in our previous win whereas we'll have quite a new look without JFL and with Fazekas and Sackey (whom they didn't see the last time).
Robinson also didn't play in that game. Being 3 players short is the probable explanation for Siggy Lorange playing 6 minutes thus jeopardizing his red-shirt possibilities. On the other side Kessinger was sidelined then and is now back in the ISUb bench rotation. Net, net we might now have a slight advantage if Robinson is ready to play. On the other hand additional rest might be just what Nick needs to find his tourney mojo? With a chronic back issue should Nick go out and test it?
Here's a podcast that talks about ISUb's recent performance from their beat writer. Hat Tip: VU2014. Thanks for tweeting this out and bringing it to my attention.
https://www.tribstar.com/multimedia/down-in-the-valley-podcast-episode-hot-stuff/audio_77884e44-5937-11ea-b6e5-1b944d4ef793.html
Thanks 1314 for hat tipping VU2014, who has brought a lot of information to the board over the years. Posts have tailed off recently - hope all is well.
I try to do it whenever I find something he tweeted. I hope he doesn't mind. I just think the information is good to be shared with the board. I echo your sentiments. I hope that 2014 is doing well as well.
Valpo 75
ISUb 72
Lets win one more to close out the year on a high note, of anther sweep!! And have six days of rest ;D
They've been pretty hot at home. If Valpo can rebound defensively we got a good chance.
I'll be there tomorrow. other than the obvious reasons...with our illnesses and injuries. it's also senior day at Hulman. hate to think I'll be on the paying end of a standing lunch bet.
maybe the Insomnia Cookies will be a celebration for us
As we've said the past few games, first team to 70 wins, including if game goes to OT.
Should be a good one. I had a dream last night that JFL played ... so there's that.
If the guys rally like they did the last time out and Ryan shoots at a high clip with and/or Gordon or someone gets hot from the 3 point line, watch out. Especially if Donovan is involved early and often.
Gotta get going here
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Giving up clean drives to the basket and offensive rebounds. Gotta be better.
Well so far they are laying a turd. Sackey needs to stop shooting.
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Not going to come back in this one without JFL's steals. Disappointing but not unexpected.
Not a good first half but we've had worse. Much worse. If Ryan gets his stroke back in the second half we could make it a game. Going to be tough without JFL though.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 29, 2020, 01:39:51 PM
Not going to come back in this one without JFL's steals. Disappointing but not unexpected.
Not good but this team always seems to fight back. It's just so frustrating sometimes.
We can do this! All it takes is one good half! Give us the best half of the season and play like the season depends on it because in many ways it does! Come on Valpo! I BELIEVE!
For all my issues with Lottich, his players never quit. We'll fight. Would easily be the biggest win of the ML era if they can pull it off.
I have no idea what it is about Terre Haute but we never seem to play well there... The nice thing is that even with a loss we're not dead... We just need to hope that SIU gets a road win.
Quote from: truth219 on February 29, 2020, 01:38:10 PMWell so far they are laying a turd. Sackey needs to stop shooting. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
Sackey is one of the reasons we're still somewhat in this. This is a biased comment based on his difficult season (that he is beginning to improve on a great deal of late).
Indiana State is just hot right now. They'll cool off and we'll have a chance to come back in this game. Go Valpo! I BELIEVE!
Looking very much like we'll have to depend on the Salukis in Springfield. It's not good to have your season left in the hands of another team...
That fourth foul on Clay was crap. Not like State needs the help today.
Come on... Let's make a push! Go Valpo! I BELIEVE!
I believe this game is over
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Go SIU....
The Terre Haute Turd Sandwich strikes again and is unfortunately becoming a yearly thing for us. Hopefully that starts to change soon.
Lot of front rims from three. Team just doesn't seem to have legs today. State defense may have something to do with that. Just a complete beat down in every phase today. Nothing to do but just move on and look to the next game hopefully with JFL ready.
I'm still hoping for a miracle (SIU winning a road game since that's very hard in the MVC) but honestly this effort with everything on the line deserves to land us in Thursday and if that happens we will have gotten exactly what we earned today. This team that went to Terre Haute is not a Friday team at all. This is not a fire Lottich post He still deserves to be extended but this is a true reflection of the reality. We did not put forth an effort worthy of being a team that plays anywhere but in the PIGs.
The last few games we have shot 3 pointers at an unrealistically high clip. Had we shot 50% from three today we would have won
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We looked like garbage today
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Three silver linings:
1. We're not dead yet. We can avoid Thursday with some help from SIU.
2. We finished .500 in a much tougher conference in just our 3rd year (I believe it took Loyola four full years (year 5) to finally pull it off
3. Indiana State absolutely whupping our behinds will probably get their NET to a Q2 neutral floor game which could (with the right set of outcomes give UNI an extra Q2 opportunity for whatever at large hopes may still exist for them. The trouble is our loss might take one away from them so... That's not good...
Wonder what those who - in my opinion overreacted after winning a couple games - advocated for ML as coach of the year still (in the name of overreacting after a loss) feel different.
Having followed Valpo through thick and thin this year, I have to say that what hurt us most in this game (besides our defense) was our
offensive rebounding. Ben Krikke has come a long way this year but he should be tougher on the boards. JFL is probably the best
on the Valpo team in getting to loose balls.
Offensive rebounding is hard work and takes players that really are ready to fight for each rebound and have a nose for the ball. We cannot attribute it just to lack of height, athleticism
or muscle. One of the best offensive rebounders in the country plays for Utah State, Justin Bean. He has been averaging a double double this year and is only 6-7 and not super athletic.
What he does have is a motor that goes all out and he has a nose for the ball like a bear after bacon. You can't make a come back in a game like this when you are only limited to one shot because no one is snagging an offensive rebound.
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on February 29, 2020, 02:50:09 PM
Wonder what those who - in my opinion overreacted after winning a couple games - advocated for ML as coach of the year still (in the name of overreacting after a loss) feel different.
This game shouldn't change anyone's perception of the team or the coach. Playing on the road down 2 starters (including your best player) is a challenge, to say the least. Move on.
Regardless, we made some progress this year. Ironically, the next 2 months might be the most important time of the year for us, as we wait to see if anyone leaves.
Those who are posting extremely negative things right now I completely understand. This loss hurts because it was such a huge and important game but I hope you'll be around and comment positively and give props when there are good reasons to do so. I'm just saying.
No doubt, but is ML worth a 5 year extension? I would say more like 2.
Quote from: usc4valpo on February 29, 2020, 03:20:15 PMNo doubt, but is ML worth a 5 year extension? I would say more like 2.
Something like a 2+2 or compromise and give 3 would be nice but 4 is probably what is going to happen for security and recruiting's sake.
Early returns in Springfield not good for us... 19-10 Bears early in the first half...
Ok, but no tenure like they gave Tom Smith back in 1984. Why they ever did that was beyond me, especially after the Harden experiment.
Who's talking tenure or anything close to lifetime? If MLB does that he should be fired on the spot. The only coaches who even remotely earned that were the Drews and even then I'd be uneasy giving that to them at least in formal contract terms. I do believe they had total de facto lifetime contracts hence the incredibly long term (10 years I think) that Bryce got on an extension he signed with us.
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on February 29, 2020, 02:50:09 PM
Wonder what those who - in my opinion overreacted after winning a couple games - advocated for ML as coach of the year still (in the name of overreacting after a loss) feel different.
What are you taking about? It was the guys on the March to the Arch podcast that suggested he might be in the conversation based on the off season issues and the injuries. They both thought in the preseason we were going to be a disaster.
39-31 Missouri State at the half. The Bears have clearly been the better team. I'm not totally giving up hope because SIU has been able to turn them over and has been somewhat cold from the field but it might be prudent to start gameplanning for Evansville right now. If we're wrong we can always change and gameplan for our 3 seed opponent (probably ISUb) but if we're right then we're already getting a jump on our next opponent and making sure that we won't be their first (and likely only) MVC win.
Pretty sure I said "those who" - I'm no genius but couldn't that refer to those on the podcast???????????????
Now really isn't the time for this.. Or most of the comments you've been making pertaining to Lottich... If I didn't know any better I'd say that you're almost happy we lost because it supports your contention that Matt sucks. That being right is more important to you than Valpo succeeding.
Yeah... This is over... Get ready for Evansville on Thursday... Kudos to the Bears they earned it today. They made the most of their opportunity we did not. I'm not even going to mention the JFL injury because to be honest I don't know if he would have been able to lead us to victory today even healthy. Do you think he could have made up 13 points?
This isn't all on Lottich, the conference record improved, and the JFL illness hurt us, but man. It's hard to be anything other than really bummed right now.
Thursday night, again. Ugh.
What I'm most worried about is next season. While the reasons for optimism are certainly there and actually quite obvious a third straight Thursday finish is not likely to get the fans to want to come out and watch the team. Avoiding Thursday would have been an obvious sign of progress that everyone could have objectively pointed to but now that we don't have that it's hard to convince someone who wouldn't otherwise go to games that going to games is a worthwhile idea. I've said it since we got into the MVC there would be initial excitement but it wouldn't last long if we don't prove it on the court and although the progress has been steady sure and clear to everyone we haven't proven it on the court to a degree that motivates people to come out. We will probably struggle in the attendance department this year too especially early in the season unless and until we start winning and pull off some wins that raise some eyebrows and give everyone an indication that we can contend in the MVC. The sooner we do that next year the better but that's what it's going to take. It takes wins to get fans. Not close losses. Not moral victories. Not fighting hard. Not good efforts that don't end successfully. Wins. We've done a good job at home overall but we need to do better against the top of the conference we need to stop digging holes and having to claw back we need to do better on the road we need to be more consistent. WE NEED TO WIN. And until we do that don't blame the fans or the community at large for being reluctant to come out.
Very disappointing. There was a single prime measurement by which to gauge this year's regular conference season: avoid the PIG! I get there may be signs of hope in the future assuming all players are back, with the leadership of JFL, the development of Clay and Krikke, and the possible contributions by Gordon, Robinson, and maybe Sackey or Morgan going forward. And I would like to think McMillen will break out next year the way someone like Vashil Fernandez eventually did. Perhaps there is a gem among the incoming freshmen as well. However, next year is always next year, and there have been too many "next year" sentiments in recent end of season summaries. Playing in the tournament on Thursday again this year seems a sure sign of further frustration if not failure. Instead, I now feel like there simply ought to be a "You Had One Job!" meme posted here.
To be fair Harre had one job in 1998: promote and grow the basketball team while it had the nation's attention. We could have been like Gonzaga BEFORE GONZAGA. We didn't do it and although we have continued to succeed to the degree that we are now in a great conference we have not had that kind of 1998 success again and we have paid for our lack of commitment to athletics with declining enrollment and waning interest now that we've hit a bit of a rough patch. Gonzaga was going to close when they bet on basketball. Now they're thriving. Butler I think was having financial problems in the mid 90s when they bet on basketball. They sure aren't now. Loyola has surged since committing to basketball. Similar success stories for Xavier Creighton and Wichita State (though their situations weren't nearly as dire as Gonzaga's was or ours appears to be). What's missing? INSTITUTIONAL COMMITMENT. We were given a GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY and we chose not to take advantage because we're too good for sportsball. And now here we sit hoping for another opportunity and hoping that the old guard board members have learned their lesson and would actually commit to basketball as a growth strategy (fat chance). Before anyone comes at me with the "What makes you think it'll work and what about all the other things we need to do around campus?" I must have missed the part where our current strategy was working so well and we were in such great shape financially. The new buildings (while necessary) have NOT positively impacted enrollment. What do we have to lose by trying the basketball first strategy? This CAN WORK and HAS WORKED for MANY schools. It's tried and true. Show me cases where a team committed to basketball to the level of Gonzaga Butler Xavier and Wichita State or even Loyola after the MVC invite and it didn't work. I think you'd be hard pressed to find that. It is a way to bring money attention and applications in to the school. We just need another catalyzing run and if we get it I hope we are smart enough to take full advantage in a way we simply didn't back in 98.
Optimistically-speaking:
We play Evansville for the PIG, right? If so, that gives us an opportunity to get our feet under us ... get our 2nd win in Arch Madness play, and garner some confidence going into Friday's match-up. I'm hoping JFL stayed back to help him get healthy and that he'll be ready-to-go next weekend. Though, I don't know a lot about mono.
Either way, Evansville proved 16 times that they could not win a conference game. They've got some players but never made it all work. So, we've gotta feel good about that. Maybe even better than if we had been a (6) seed even if it means we have to partake in the PIG.
I know no MVC team has won since the start of this format being the 7-10 seed but there's still something good about being the team who stays in a groove instead of the one that ends up resting, playing a team that's just come off a win in the PIG, and losing a game they shouldn't have lost. That happened to us in the Horizon a few times.
So, all is not lost.
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on February 29, 2020, 06:20:44 PM
Optimistically-speaking:
We play Evansville for the PIG, right? If so, that gives us an opportunity to get our feet under us ... get our 2nd win in Arch Madness play, and garner some confidence going into Friday's match-up. I'm hoping JFL stayed back to help him get healthy and that he'll be ready-to-go next weekend. Though, I don't know a lot about mono.
Either way, Evansville proved 16 times that they could not win a conference game. They've got some players but never made it all work. So, we've gotta feel good about that. Maybe even better than if we had been a (6) seed even if it means we have to partake in the PIG.
I know no MVC team has won since the start of this format being the 7-10 seed but there's still something good about being the team who stays in a groove instead of the one that ends up resting, playing a team that's just come off a win in the PIG, and losing a game they shouldn't have lost. That happened to us in the Horizon a few times.
So, all is not lost.
Still a dangerous team on any given night, though Mileek needs to stop dribbling/driving, as it never ends well.
Golden, I don't regret my COY comment one bit. With the roster turnover, no one was picking us to do anything this season, and we have surpassed Loyola's trajectory from when they first joined the MVC. As I just said on the other thread, the COY award is not always awarded to the top 2 teams in the conference, but rather the coach that had the most impact. If we would have won at ISUb to finish 10-8, he would have received votes.
we have surpassed Loyola's trajectory from when they first joined the MVC.
:crazy:
Why are we using that as the bar to compare ourselves? I'll remind you when Loyola arrived to the MVC they were coming off a decade of horrible HL results. Valpo was coming into the MVC off of 5 of 6 HL championships and a NIT championship runner up.
We should be quicker to success in the mvc than Loyola. :crazy:
Remember we got invited based on our merits on the floor not because we are in Chicago and have nice facilities.
Stop comparing us to LU.
Have any of you heard of preferring illusion to despair? It means that it's better to believe a comfortable lie than to confront a painful reality. Comfortable lie: It doesn't matter that Loyola came from being a bottom feeder in the HL to finally contending in the MVC in Year 5 and Valpo was a top flight HL team that is struggling in the MVC It's important that we got to .500 first. Reality: We should have competed way faster and the fact that we are a Thursday team for the third consecutive year after competing so well in the same league Loyola struggled in is a huge red flag for the state of the program. I feel like if I'm forced to confront the increasingly apparent reality that this program is not and never will be anything without the Drews I'll become despondent and have no reason to ever hope for anything as a fan. I need that hope that we're building something and we're going to be fine and that we are still a legitimate mid major power on the national stage; and if it's not there and there truly is no hope that things will ever get better than what's the point?
Not with the roster turnover we've had. You all need to be more realistic. Finishing at 9-9 with what we lost and our unknowns, is an amazing accomplishment.
Im sorry but I just can't call a 9-9 finish and not avoiding the play in game an amazing accomplishment.
Tex missing the point again
So what's everyone's mood if we lose to EVille? No Robinson, likely no JFL. Bigger arena with unfamiliar shooting background. Still shouldn't happen but not completely out of the realm of possibility.
Quote from: valpotx on March 01, 2020, 05:06:47 AM
Not with the roster turnover we've had. You all need to be more realistic. Finishing at 9-9 with what we lost and our unknowns, is an amazing accomplishment.
I'm 50-50 on fire/extending Lottich. I think Okie-boys point is that Lottich signed the players who fled last off season. Thereby he must take ownership of the whole picture because his instincts brought them to Valpo and allowed the mass exodus.
I get both sides of the argument personally. I just don't see why shooting for the moon with a fire-then-hire makes sense at this point. I highly question whether a bible thumping coach (Tonnagel) relates to MVC level recruits...he is unflinching and quite the hardliner from what I hear. By all appearances Lottich does not lean away from religion but I also think he's more grounded than most that carry the religious badge.
Either way...Oklahomamick....play nice buddy!!!
Well said fieldgoodie.
I also thought Vugrad1314's preferring illusion to despair was good.
The max exodus was all Lottich except for smits. But hopefully coach pushed them out because they were cancers. By them not being here we are better.
If they stayed I think we are 9th not 7th. Tough to replace evansville at 10th.....
I think not extending Lottich 2 years we will be taking a step back. Need stability and the team likes to play for him. However he just doesn't have a high ceiling. Unless you go out and get a proven coach and are willing to spend Some money, just stay at status quo
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 01, 2020, 10:15:24 AM
Tex missing the point again
I understand if you might still be butt hurt about my OK comments :), but don't let that blind you from a season where we should have been at a level similar to Evansville and Illinois State. Almost the entire key roster turned over! Your expectation on our immediate potential to compete for championships in the MVC is not realistic. We had 2 separate NBA players for 8 consecutive seasons. You were spoiled by that success. We were not competing for championships after we transitioned to the HL for 3 seasons, and are well ahead of schedule moving into and competing in the more difficult MVC. Belmont and Murray State would have performed similar or worse than we have in our 3 seasons, as they get to beat down a :censored: OVC.
"We were not competing for championships after we transitioned to the HL for 3 seasons"
Yes, nor were we the last 3 years of the Mid-Con.....
"Almost the entire key roster turned over!"
Yes, for the better. Also, the roster that Lottich brought in. So, if they left then that is his fault.....
"we should have been at a level similar to Evansville and Illinois State"
We aren't far from it....7 instead of 10 or 9.
We had 2 separate NBA players for 8 consecutive seasons. You were spoiled by that success.
Yes, we were spoiled. Must have been a good recruiter at the helm. Probably some good assistants that stayed for several years too. Little staff turnover and little roster turnover.
If I call Green Bay and Oakland both had 2 nba guys get drafted as well.
No hard feelings on the OK comments. Keep giving me layups though. Comparing our MVC success to Loyola's was a good one too. :crazy:
And for all of us celebrating the transfers last season, Bakari and Smits (if healthy) will be playing in the tourney this year, and Jay will soon be getting a paycheck. And here we are again on Thursday night.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on March 01, 2020, 02:01:32 PM
And for all of us celebrating the transfers last season, Bakari and Smits (if healthy) will be playing in the tourney this year, and Jay will soon be getting a paycheck. And here we are again on Thursday night.
Bakari isn't putting up big numbers, but he's playing almost 20 mpg for an Iowa team that's currently a 5 seed per bracketmatrix.com. He either wasn't healthy last year or just needed a change of scenery.
We ended up in 6th place, not 7th place. We just have the 7 seed in the tournament, due to a random NET tiebreaker, but history will have us listed as tied for 6th, just 1 loss from a 4th place finish. I understand that living in TX's shadow on a daily basis can make you bitter, but try to go outside and smell the roses a bit, bud :thumbsup:. Maybe this anger stems from 3 MVPs leaving your NBA team for greener pastures, and not being able to win the big one while you had them all in 2011, due to getting spanked by a big god-like German and several key role players? :) It will get better, I promise...one day.
Loyola is a very valid comparison, as we just lost the greatest player in the history of our program, so it wasn't the same team joining the MVC. Our funding was at the top of the HL, and was/is near the bottom of the MVC. That is also a factor. There's your layup, but just like the 2011 conference finals, I think OK will come up short.
Not even a fan of ok thunder but cool. Not even a fan of the nba.
Only thing we agree on is how bad oklahoma is, and I'm talking about the state not university's football team or the nba team.
Don't see how it relates to any of this.
Maybe you can compare it to when you were a big D1 athlete. I always enjoyed those post. Miss them dearly. Maybe 10k a year scholarship, if that? Doesn't matter, not relevant.
Let's keep to the facts and the argument at topic.
Coming into the valley we had 8 years of success and returning several from a HL league title.
Loyola came into the valley with 8 years of bottom feeding. Also at that time loyola's budget isn't what it is now.
Of course it's expected valpo should have quicker success.
What's impressive is our women's program. They came into the valley with similar 8 year of bottom feeding just Loyola. However they are going a two bid league. The girls have over achieved.
My answers to your comments are in bold above.
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 01, 2020, 04:11:06 PM
Not even a fan of ok thunder but cool. Not even a fan of the nba.
Only thing we agree on is how bad oklahoma is, and I'm talking about the state not university's football team or the nba team.
Don't see how it relates to any of this.
Maybe you can compare it to when you were a big D1 athlete. I always enjoyed those post. Miss them dearly. Maybe 10k a year scholarship, if that? Doesn't matter, not relevant.
Let's keep to the facts and the argument at topic.
Coming into the valley we had 8 years of success and returning several from a HL league title.
Loyola came into the valley with 8 years of bottom feeding. Also at that time loyola's budget isn't what it is now.
Of course it's expected valpo should have quicker success.
What's impressive is our women's program. They came into the valley with similar 8 year of bottom feeding just Loyola. However they are going a two bid league. The girls have over achieved.
My answers to your comments are in bold above.
Actually, I never said I was a big time D-1 athlete, but good try. I've fully mentioned several times that I gained limited run with the varsity, and was mainly on the JV. My scholarship was academic, not athletic, and it paid off :). However, that does not change the fact that I was a D-1 athlete, when many folks never get to be. Layup...missed.
If we make it to Saturday next weekend I'd consider this season a mild success. If we lose on thursday...kind of a disaster. Regardless of illness, because we can't be a one man show. Then we wait for the roster turnover...if any
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No worries there. I'm confident in winning Thursday. Thursday again.
I was one of those d1 athletes. Even coached at the d1 level. A little surprised you were just JV, I mean with all the war stories and all. You have also mentioned how many people work for you and how many your hire. And Im willing to guess they all know you were d1 too. 😊
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 01, 2020, 05:38:53 PM
No worries there. I'm confident in winning Thursday. Thursday again.
I was one of those d1 athletes. Even coached at the d1 level. A little surprised you were just JV, I mean with all the war stories and all. You have also mentioned how many people work for you and how many your hire. And Im willing to guess they all know you were d1 too. 😊
Nobody wins this measuring contest gents. Might be time to redirect! Just an opinion...
There you go again with misinterpreting what I say/have said in the past :). If you play & practice 4 years of a traveling college sport, you end up with a ton of 'war stories,' as you call them, and honestly, I've barely given any that relate directly to baseball games. Whether I was practicing/playing with the JV or the varsity, depending on the week, we had practices almost daily, so yeah, that was a good chunk of my college experience. From the 4 am running drills, to normal practice, you are going to have stories to impart when similar topics come up.
Also, I don't talk about the amount of people that work for me, and the only reason that I talk about the folks that I hire, is because that is my occupation. I am a Senior Manager, Technical Recruiting for my company, so all I do is hire Engineers day-in and day-out. Maybe instead of taking it as gloating, you ask a question in why someone says such a thing? As far as them knowing about my college baseball career, they only know that I played baseball, and nothing special past that fact :). Thanks for playing, though!
I wouldn't get butt hurt about it.... :-\ I got sidetracked and need to stick to my own advice by keeping to the topic at hand as I originally was doing. We are probably pretty similar (except you were lucky enough to be born in a lot better place than me) in the fact that we really care about our young kids, our wife, our job and Valpo hoops. We just differ in where we think the current status of the program is. That shouldn't lead to knocks on Oklahoma (although I agree with all of them and could probably add some). Nor should it lead to me trying to make fun of you.
I used to fly out to 4-6 games a year. I really enjoyed watching my alma matter. Very proud of the basketball team who represents the university. Also proud of the academics at our school.
I saw us beat BYU at MGM for a tournament championship in Vegas. A couple weeks later I witnessed us beat a nationally ranked team. I think where the program is currently, we are really far from that.
Lottich inherited a good team and a good program ready to compete in the MVC right away. (middle of the pack, not dead last and second to last and then once again playing on Thursday). We have had a lot of departures from the storied and proud program. Both players and coaches. Coupled with losing a lot of non conference and conference games, those facts are disturbing and frustrating.
This thread is becoming 5 pages and very little to do with Valpo hoops. Don't know how we got to everything else. Standing in at a generous 5'8, I sometimes think I'm 6'7 when I get behind a keyboard.....my bad. End of the day, we both want Valpo to do better, I think. My fault.
No problem, Mick. I just found you on LI (it is my job to be able to find people :)), and you were actually on campus for much of the same time as me. I didn't know you, but knew a few of your teammates. Older Flugstad was sometimes a part of our self-titled 'Brandt Hall Gangstaz' crew, but none of the overtly negative stuff that some of my friends got into.
Either way, I agree that both of us are very prideful people, and just have different visions on the current stance of Valpo basketball.
Oklahomamick vs. Valpotx :hijack:
:whiteflag: :whiteflag: :whiteflag: :whiteflag: :whiteflag: :whiteflag:
Imagine how powerful they'd be if they joined forces.
Maybe that could happen after the egos go away.
The saddest aspect of all of this is that we are a made Donovan Clay 3 pointer or a better final possession in Gentile Arena away from feeling so much better about ourselves and our direction and not even having most of the conversation that is happening right now... It's sad how close we were and amazing how close we are to being really good and I just hope the players see that and stay...
Well, I see the sky is falling once again on the old Valpo board after our loss to Indiana State, at their place where they've proven to be nearly impossible to beat and where we were absent 2 starters, including our MVP and likely 1st team all-conference player. So now we play on Thursday, the season is a complete failure, and "Matt the much improved X's and O's coach" has once again become "Lottich the coach that shouldn't get a contract extension." We are officially mired in mediocrity and may never recover, and we are the MVC's mistake addition because the mighty Racers and Bruins went 15-3 in their equivalent of the old Mid Con Conference. Who knew that after winning 4 of our last 5 after getting Ryan back that 1 road game where we were severely shorthanded would have so much meaning.
In case someone is still interested in a bit of optimism, here it is. Assuming that JFL is back full strength, there is no one in this league that we can't beat on a neutral court. If we have the good fortune to get past Evansville, our toughest matchup will be the quarterfinal game because of tired legs against a fresh opponent. After that, everyone will be tired. Let's see what happens.
I wonder if they'll try to sneak some rest for JFL and not announce his return until right before the Loyola game. If we can sneak that extra rest for our best player it could make the difference. Would you take that risk of resting JFL (assuming he is okay and cleared to play) against Evansville to set up a surprise return to the lineup against Loyola and mitigate the tired legs factor and give the entire team an extra boost with him coming back? It's a tough decision considering we had trouble with them in both games WITH JFL. If we had blown them out in both games I think this would definitely be worth doing but since both games were battles the risk might be too great. Furthermore it would be a pretty arrogant gesture to play a team at less than full strength and intentionally tie your own hands in a game and arrogance tends to get punished severely. The basketball gods don't like that at all.
You could say we're a few shots away from being great and you could say we're 1 injury away from being terrible.
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Quote from: truth219 on March 02, 2020, 03:14:36 PMYou could say we're a few shots away from being great and you could say we're 1 injury away from being terrible. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
Welcome to the razor's edge AKA the life of the mid major.
We can not lose on Thursday. That would be hard to get past.
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Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 02, 2020, 01:51:13 PMThe saddest aspect of all of this is that we are a made Donovan Clay 3 pointer or a better final possession in Gentile Arena away from feeling so much better about ourselves and our direction and not even having most of the conversation that is happening right now... It's sad how close we were and amazing how close we are to being really good and I just hope the players see that and stay...
I hope Mileek is right. The only players I see as possibly thinking of transferring right now are Siggy or Eron, but I have no idea. I think it's a good chance they all stay.
https://twitter.com/NWIOren/status/1234583239177756677
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 02, 2020, 03:12:58 PMI wonder if they'll try to sneak some rest for JFL and not announce his return until right before the Loyola game.
Assuming he's capable of playing, this would be a fireable offense for the coach and possibly even after a victory. No way any Valpo team should be even remotely considering playing a game vs any team without the team's best player and a player in the conversation for the conference player of the year.
Edit: My reference is to a Conference Playoff game.
Quote from: JD24 on March 02, 2020, 04:57:24 PM
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 02, 2020, 03:12:58 PMI wonder if they'll try to sneak some rest for JFL and not announce his return until right before the Loyola game.
Assuming he's capable of playing, this would be a fireable offense for the coach and possibly even after a victory. No way any Valpo team should be even remotely considering playing a game vs any team without the team's best player and a player in the conversation for the conference player of the year.
I think that would be short sighted beyond compare.
You play and win the game in front of you Period Full Stop. There is only 1 game -- Evansville. Win and you can worry about Friday.