This includes no size limitations on events, if approval is granted by the county health department. Hopefully, the new normal at the ARC will look a lot like the old normal.
Indiana will move to reopening plan Stage 5, mask mandate to continue
https://www.google.com/amp/s/fox59.com/news/coronavirus/gov-holcomb-state-leaders-to-give-update-on-reopening-plan-mask-mandate/amp/
Quote from: wh on September 24, 2020, 12:14:44 PM
This includes no size limitations on events, if approval is granted by the county health department. Hopefully, the new normal at the ARC will look a lot like the old normal.
Indiana will move to reopening plan Stage 5, mask mandate to continue
https://www.google.com/amp/s/fox59.com/news/coronavirus/gov-holcomb-state-leaders-to-give-update-on-reopening-plan-mask-mandate/amp/
Even with this, the executive order requires businesses to continue their efforts to keep at least 6 feet of distance between unrelated patrons. So there's no way you're going to see a full-capacity ARC.
When was the last time we were full capacity? Or needed it.
Family has a restaurant here in the Fort. The math doesn't make any sense. A restaurant with 6' social distancing between tables is probably no more than 70% capacity. All bar patrons are suppose to be seated with social distancing. Either enforce these rule/suggestions or just allow full capacity with the mask mandate and stop playing these word games. We are trying, but many or our competitors are just having a free for all with full dance floors and karaoke nights etc.. The local Turner's Club is packed most every night and nobody seems to mind. This is really beginning to piss me off.
Direct quotes from the Back on Track Website for Stage 5:
• Restaurants and bars that offer food service open at full capacity
• Bar section customers must be seated, whether at a table or counter
• Social distancing required as a seating consideration
• Provisions must be made so individuals, households or parties are spaced six feet apart from another individual, household or party
• Bars and nightclubs open at full capacity
• Customers must be seated, whether at a table or counter
• Social distancing required as a seating consideration
Very few places are following these rules and the ones that are are getting their asses kicked.
Quote from: vusupporter on September 24, 2020, 02:59:53 PM
Quote from: wh on September 24, 2020, 12:14:44 PM
This includes no size limitations on events, if approval is granted by the county health department. Hopefully, the new normal at the ARC will look a lot like the old normal.
Indiana will move to reopening plan Stage 5, mask mandate to continue
https://www.google.com/amp/s/fox59.com/news/coronavirus/gov-holcomb-state-leaders-to-give-update-on-reopening-plan-mask-mandate/amp/
Even with this, the executive order requires businesses to continue their efforts to keep at least 6 feet of distance between unrelated patrons. So there's no way you're going to see a full-capacity ARC.
The only way this would happen, a full capacity ARC, is if there is a Trump rally in the ARC and that would be a certain death trap for many of the Trump supporters.
Quote from: Chairback on September 24, 2020, 05:38:12 PM
When was the last time we were full capacity? Or needed it.
Sunday February 10th 2019 vs. Loyola 5,148 fans.
After that Monday December 30th 2019 vs. Loyola 4,364 fans.
Average attendance last year 2,797 (55% full)
What is sad is that after the way last season ended with the tournament run, I would have expected a slight uptick in attendance. We will struggle for a loooonnngg time into the future trying to reach the types of numbers VALPO LI quoted. Large social gatherings for these types of events will continue to lag behind for years to come.
I have attended several IN HS volleyball games this fall to cheer on my grandchild. Everywhere I've been the requirements are similar:
- masks on at all times
- every other row blocked off to provide adequate spacing between attendees above and below
- fans in the same row are asked to leave gaps, other than within your own group
- instructions posted at entrances and announcement made over the PA
I would think Valpo could do something similar. Blocking off every other row would cut capacity in half. Building in same row spacing for season ticket holder groups is simple enough. Sections not needed to accommodate season ticket holders can be designated for single game ticket holders with similar social distancing requirements. I'm guessing that would still allow for as many as 2000 fans at capacity. Given that some regular supporters (especially seniors) may decide to sit this season out, 2000 should be plenty to accommodate everyone interested in attending in person. BTW I heard that the Athletic Department was scheduled to present it's "500 capacity" plan to the administration today. That plan was devised before the state went to Stage-5 and loosened event restrictions. Hopefully, they have revised it accordingly. Staying with 500 max. (10% capacity) is needless overkill given the new rules and something that I personally wouldn't be interested in participating in.
Az long as we taze people who don't comply that should work! :thumbsup: :o
be good if they just tazed people. things are goint to go nuts this week.
Time to wake up people
58 people have died at a Valpo nursing home......not all residents
40 are currently in the coronavirus ward on the 5th floor of Northwest Health Hospital (formerly Porter Regional) on US 6 & Hwy 49.
Quote from: bbtds on November 02, 2020, 10:24:49 AM
Time to wake up people
58 people have died at a Valpo nursing home......not all residents
40 are currently in the coronavirus ward on the 5th floor of Northwest Health Hospital (formerly Porter Regional) on US 6 & Hwy 49.
Could you offer support for this? The current dashboard (Nov. 2) for Porter County shows there has been a total for the year of 22 deaths in Center Township (where Valparaiso is located) connected to Covid-19. It also lists only 24 patients currently hospitalized for Covid-19 in all 12 townships of Porter County, which includes the hospital. I ask because I have a relative who works at a Valpo nursing home, and there have been no deaths at her location.
https://www.porterco.org/1638/Dashboard-for-DESKTOP-DEVICES (https://www.porterco.org/1638/Dashboard-for-DESKTOP-DEVICES) Additionally, the state website lists a total of 57 Covid-19 related deaths in all of Porter County for the year.
https://www.coronavirus.in.gov/ (https://www.coronavirus.in.gov/)
As someone who does vital records data for counties in Indiana and has done such work for Porter County it would appear that valpopal's data is what has been reported. Perhaps there is some lag from reported data to the actual current situation, but that would seem to be quite a large jump and would have to be a very significant lag to account for those differences.
I get concerned when discrepancies exist in health data and would be interested in your source bbtds, where are you getting this information?
I have a family member that works at multiple hospitals across the area. I couldn't give an exact number for anything, but they are telling me that the numbers on the dashboards for NWI are about a week behind because somebody has to plug everything in by hand, and that reality is worse than what the current numbers show. But again, I can't speak to any exact numbers and don't know anything about nursing homes.
Quote from: vok22 on November 02, 2020, 03:09:03 PM
I have a family member that works at multiple hospitals across the area. I couldn't give an exact number for anything, but they are telling me that the numbers on the dashboards for NWI are about a week behind because somebody has to plug everything in by hand, and that reality is worse than what the current numbers show. But again, I can't speak to any exact numbers and don't know anything about nursing homes.
Deaths should be reported within 2-4 days depending upon the doctor's final sign-off (obviously some death cases can linger on for significant amounts of time), the positive cases and hospitalizations could very well be behind that by a significant number of days.
I had to check with my source and they said it was okay to give out this info as long as I didn't give the name of the nursing home. My source is a person who works in the Covid unit at Northwest Health-Porter (the hospital at US Hwy 6 & St Rd 49). The three hospitals in Starke County, LaPorte and Porter County have joined together to become Northwest Health. I don't believe beyond the one nursing home that any other nursing homes have more than 1 or 2 deaths. My info is from November 2nd and at this time I don't have any other current info.
This Pfizer vaccine announcement might mean that many of us (highest risk) receive it before the end of the season. How quickly it hits the streets could still change many of yesterday's scheduling and attendance assumptions.
The downside to this is that I sold my large and long held position in the stock about 3 years ago. :'( :'(
Quote from: justducky on November 09, 2020, 12:30:42 PM
This Pfizer vaccine announcement might mean that many of us (highest risk) receive it before the end of the season. How quickly it hits the streets could still change many of yesterday's scheduling and attendance assumptions.
The downside to this is that I sold my large and long held position in the stock about 3 years ago. :'( :'(
The way I understand it, the first priority will be:
- In-patient Healthcare Workers (top priority)
- Out-patient workers/first responders
- Residents in long term care facilities
- Congregate housing/essential workers
After that would be highest risk. With two doses needed and a -70 C shipping/storage requirements, we won't see it hitting general population until March-May, unless many skip out on this vaccine.
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Quote from: covufan on November 09, 2020, 10:31:52 PMThe way I understand it, the first priority will be:
- In-patient Healthcare Workers (top priority)
- Out-patient workers/first responders
- Residents in long term care facilities
- Congregate housing/essential workers
After that would be highest risk. With two doses needed and a -70 C shipping/storage requirements, we won't see it hitting general population until March-May, unless many skip out on this vaccine.
Lots of moving parts but I'm expecting The Biden Task Force to be handed the difficult decisions that will probably please none of us. Politics aside and in no particular order I would recommend that Fauci, Biden, Trump, Pence and Harris publicly receive the first 5 doses to impress on the vaccine doubters the importance of receiving it. After that I'd cynically expect significant chaos with the deepest pockets usually prevailing.
Lots of speculation by Wall Street on the speed at which this gets done but my hope is that I can make it to the ARC for at least a girl's basketball or volleyball game or two where spacing might not be a big issue. Also, however it is prioritized, many of us should fall into that first 30,000,000 dose category. Maybe those with proof of vaccination can be seated elbow to elbow in C and H where we can cough and sneeze and argue with each other kind of like normal times. :thumbsup:
The Dow will open 500 points higher on a Moderna vaccine announcement which exceeds the efficacy shown by Pfizer. Looks like similar technology and similar logistical distribution problems. Some speculation that much of this could be distributed by CVS, Walgreens, and Walmart and that 40,000,000 combined doses (20,000,000 people) could be vaccinated by end of December. If Trump's "Warp Speed" and Biden's planned rollout can be properly integrated and executed then maybe??????? February will look a lot like a our normal MVC prelude to St.Louis????
Either way the finish line is now in sight and I hope that none of us collapse and die with it clearly in our sights. Hold on until January!
Logistics issues are somewhat easier with the Moderna vaccine, as it can be stored for longer periods and can be stored in a regular freezer rather than a super cold freezer. I agree that the finish line is in sight, but realistically the country is not going get back to close to normal until late Spring or Summer. Even at these high efficacy levels, you probably need something like 70 percent of adults to be vaccinated to kill the vaccine - and there are a lot of hurdles (logistically and ideologically) that need to be overcome to get to that number.
Quote from: vu84v2 on November 16, 2020, 09:45:27 AMI agree that the finish line is in sight, but realistically the country is not going get back to close to normal until late Spring or Summer.
We may need to redefine "normal". If all of the willing members of the named priority groups and most or all of the elderly are vaccinated by early Feb (say 50 million) then life for them has essentially returned to "normal". With minimal risk for serious infection and hospitalization most of us will take our chances and return to near normal activities.
Quote from: vu84v2 on November 16, 2020, 09:45:27 AMEven at these high efficacy levels, you probably need something like 70 percent of adults to be vaccinated
That might be high. Many in the low risk category have already dismissed the dangers and are behaving accordingly. Most have or will survive infection and will bolster the combined herd and vaccinated immunity groups.
Quote from: vu84v2 on November 16, 2020, 09:45:27 AMthere are a lot of hurdles (logistically and ideologically) that need to be overcome to get to that number.
The ideological hurdle could evaporate quickly. If Trump, Pence, Biden and Harris receive their vaccinations publicly then the anti-vaccers are each standing alone with a very personal and perhaps dangerous decision to make. I think enough will eventually come around so that the summer and fall infections and deaths drop off the charts and out of the headlines.
Bigger picture, I get why many are resentful for the sacrifices they have made to protect the fragile (like me). Hopefully I can repay your generosity by continuing to be a mischievous board irritant for many years to come. ;)
justducky - I also hope that you can continue to be a mischievous board irritant for many years to come.
Quote from: justducky on November 16, 2020, 08:40:04 AM
The Dow will open 500 points higher on a Moderna vaccine announcement which exceeds the efficacy shown by Pfizer. Looks like similar technology and similar logistical distribution problems. Some speculation that much of this could be distributed by CVS, Walgreens, and Walmart and that 40,000,000 combined doses (20,000,000 people) could be vaccinated by end of December. If Trump's "Warp Speed" and Biden's planned rollout can be properly integrated and executed then maybe??????? February will look a lot like a our normal MVC prelude to St.Louis????
Either way the finish line is now in sight and I hope that none of us collapse and die with it clearly in our sights. Hold on until January!
As always during this pandemic the keys are 1. wearing a mask 2. social distancing when possible 3. washing your hands
Avoiding large groups of people (like at sporting events) is one of the big keys because these are superspreader events. And I dare say that both political persuasions have participated in these kind of events.
I don't believe anyone should take their guard down (not practice the 3 items above) in March because some of the public will have received the coronavirus vaccine. It will be summer or fall before anything like that happens at public events.
Quote from: bbtds on November 17, 2020, 08:41:05 AMI don't believe anyone should take their guard down (not practice the 3 items above) in March because some of the public will have received the coronavirus vaccine. It will be summer or fall before anything like that happens at public events.
What I'm hinting at is some kind of "Proof of Vaccination Card". A section of restaurants might phase to elbow to elbow "vaccinated only" seating. Maybe Tuesdays and Thursdays at your hair dresser are scheduled only for the vaccinated. Something like this might be tried at the ARC also. Maybe upper vs lower bowl alternating isolations of the vaccinated from the great unwashed :). Just throwing around ideas so you can add any reopening thoughts that cross your minds.
Quote from: justducky on November 17, 2020, 01:24:56 PMQuote from: bbtds on November 17, 2020, 08:41:05 AMI don't believe anyone should take their guard down (not practice the 3 items above) in March because some of the public will have received the coronavirus vaccine. It will be summer or fall before anything like that happens at public events.
What I'm hinting at is some kind of "Proof of Vaccination Card". A section of restaurants might phase to elbow to elbow "vaccinated only" seating. Maybe Tuesdays and Thursdays at your hair dresser are scheduled only for the vaccinated. Something like this might be tried at the ARC also. Maybe upper vs lower bowl alternating isolations of the vaccinated from the great unwashed :). Just throwing around ideas so you can add any reopening thoughts that cross your minds.
Maybe those that don't have vaccines can sit at the back of the bus and we will reserve the good seats for those good members of society. I don't think anything like that has been tried before, lets see how that plays out...
If a vaccine is available, those that get it can feel comfortable knowing they are protected. Those that don't understand the risk they are taking by not having the vaccine. We don't need government to force people to get a drug put into their body or make their lives miserable if they don't.
If a vaccine is available, those that get it can feel comfortable knowing they are protected. Those that don't understand the risk they are taking by not having the vaccine. We don't need government to force people to get a drug put into their body or make their lives miserable if they don't.
[/quote]
You seem to be missing how vaccines work. Let's say the vaccine is 95% effective (which would be truly amazing for a first pass vaccine). While the symptoms from getting sick may be less (we'll need to know this), you still have a 1 in 20 chance of getting sick (compared to before the vaccine). Furthermore, how long do the effects of the vaccine last? 6 months? a year? The point here is that solving the COVID-19 pandemic problem requires a combination of high efficacy, high duration and a lot of people taking the vaccine (plus safety, of course). Not sure what percentage of people need to take the vaccine if it has a 95% efficacy, but my guess is that it is around 70%. A big 2021 dilemma is going to be to get people to take the vaccine (you can't force them to), because if not enough take it we'll be continuously battling this for many years.
a choice to take a vaccine or not is not the same as racial segregation.
Not sure they can't be forced. Doesn't the state require certain vaccinations for kids going to school? Doesn't the state require seatbelts be worn? Doesn't the state require auto insurance? Seems like the state can enforce whatever policy it wants if a law is passed.
Perhaps the answer is for the state to not require the vaccination but if you are caught being in public spaces without same, then hefty fines occur. This is why I'm not in politics!
Can insurance companies raise rates for individuals or families who refuse any or all vaccinations?
Quote from: vu84v2 on November 18, 2020, 12:48:28 PMIf a vaccine is available, those that get it can feel comfortable knowing they are protected. Those that don't understand the risk they are taking by not having the vaccine. We don't need government to force people to get a drug put into their body or make their lives miserable if they don't.
You seem to be missing how vaccines work. Let's say the vaccine is 95% effective (which would be truly amazing for a first pass vaccine). While the symptoms from getting sick may be less (we'll need to know this), you still have a 1 in 20 chance of getting sick (compared to before the vaccine). Furthermore, how long do the effects of the vaccine last? 6 months? a year? The point here is that solving the COVID-19 pandemic problem requires a combination of high efficacy, high duration and a lot of people taking the vaccine (plus safety, of course). Not sure what percentage of people need to take the vaccine if it has a 95% efficacy, but my guess is that it is around 70%. A big 2021 dilemma is going to be to get people to take the vaccine (you can't force them to), because if not enough take it we'll be continuously battling this for many years.
I am aware of how vaccines work. Understand you still have a chance to get sick even with the vaccine. my whole point is forcing people to take a vaccine is a slippery slope. The comments after I posted that further my point.. insurance rates up, fines for being in public without a vaccine, not allowing someone to take part in society or to essentially wear the scarlet letter if they don't... Especially for a disease that lets be honest, the majority of society has very little severe effects from. The vaccine will greatly help protect those that want it (no it cure it but it greatly reduces risk). Everyone else should be allowed to live their lives. If you took a vaccine and you are still scared to be out in public or you are in high risk group, don't be then.
Quote from: justducky on November 18, 2020, 02:58:47 PM
Can insurance companies raise rates for individuals or families who refuse any or all vaccinations?
Of course they can set their own rules for policy holders but if the other insurance companies don't agree with raising rates on people that refuse the vaccinations then those insurance companies that choose to enforce their rules will lose business and hurt their profitability.
I seem to have missed an important detail on the new vaccines. Many of you may have missed it as well. Apparently the lag between the 1'st and 2'nd doses is 30 days which should be followed by another week of caution before the immunity completely sets in. :'(
Sorry! This significantly changes my assumptions for reopening as per 2021 winter (plus spring?) basketball .
My thinking on speeding the rollout for "normalization" of economic activities by prioritizing say restaurant space or baseball seating for the proven vaccinated is still a relevant topic for discussion. The entire economy is in desperate need for a rapid return to as normal of a behavior as we can manage. The profitability or survival of many businesses depend upon it.
Very good point about the two does required for the vaccine. Getting people to complete both doses will be a further challenge that will impact loosening restrictions on large gatherings (sports and otherwise).
One other point here (which really goes to the Fall 2021 semester). It seems highly likely that universities will require all of their students to be vaccinated against COVID-19 unless there is some serious availability/logistics problem through the summer. Universities already require other vaccines, so this will just be an extension of that. There will be no "opt out" allowed unless the student provides detailed medical records that say they cannot take the vaccine. Many employers will do the same thing.
Quote from: vu84v2 on November 20, 2020, 10:44:34 AMVery good point about the two does required for the vaccine. Getting people to complete both doses will be a further challenge that will impact loosening restrictions on large gatherings (sports and otherwise).
I assume you meant to say "two doses required for the vaccine" Or possibly you meant "two dosey doe's"
(https://secureservercdn.net/50.62.89.79/dpp.58a.myftpupload.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/dosey-doe-1.jpg?time=1604390580)
Quote from: justducky on November 17, 2020, 01:24:56 PMQuote from: bbtds on November 17, 2020, 08:41:05 AMI don't believe anyone should take their guard down (not practice the 3 items above) in March because some of the public will have received the coronavirus vaccine. It will be summer or fall before anything like that happens at public events.
What I'm hinting at is some kind of "Proof of Vaccination Card". A section of restaurants might phase to elbow to elbow "vaccinated only" seating. Maybe Tuesdays and Thursdays at your hair dresser are scheduled only for the vaccinated. Something like this might be tried at the ARC also. Maybe upper vs lower bowl alternating isolations of the vaccinated from the great unwashed :). Just throwing around ideas so you can add any reopening thoughts that cross your minds.
Ticketmaster has already mentioned that proof of vaccination or negative test within a short period prior to any event they ticket is likely when events first startup. How long this is continued is anyone's guess. All electronic ticket and entry. There will be a place on the website where you can upload your vax/test results. Absent these.....no entry even if you bought the ticket.
Don't think this can happen? When was the last time anyone walked onto a plane without making a stop or two beforehand?
Doctors fear COVID-19 worst for college basketball: 'Horrible idea'
By Zach Braziller
November 21, 2020 | 6:19pm
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2020/11/21/doctors-fear-covid-19-worst-for-college-basketball-season/amp/
Over the weekend Florida State called off their game with Clemson 3 hours before kickoff because 1 backup player tested COVID positive. Clemson's coach called it ridiculous, saying they should forfeit for refusing to play. If 1 infected player can shut down a major college FB game, imagine how many BB games are going to be cancelled. Moreover, MVC conference games are going to be played back-to-back/same teams/same location, so we're talking about 2 games cancelled by a single incident. Add to that the same government officials who have been demanding since last spring that everything remain shut down until a vaccine is developed are now calling the safety of the new vaccines into question and scaring the American public away from getting vaccinated. Bottom line - I will be surprised if this year's college bb season lasts past January before it collapses. Obviously and sincerely, I hope I'm completely wrong and it all goes fine.
Despite Dabo's complaining, the postponement of that game was entirely on Clemson. They had a positive test on an OLman the day they left and let the player make the trip to Tallahassee. Incredibly stupid which, of course, Dabo blames on FSU.
Quote from: JD24 on November 23, 2020, 09:08:12 PM
Despite Dabo's complaining, the postponement of that game was entirely on Clemson. They had a positive test on an OLman the day they left and let the player make the trip to Tallahassee. Incredibly stupid which, of course, Dabo blames on FSU.
Has Cleveland St. been banned from the postseason because of this Dabo situation?
Quote from: valporun on November 29, 2020, 03:05:23 PMQuote from: JD24 on November 23, 2020, 09:08:12 PMDespite Dabo's complaining, the postponement of that game was entirely on Clemson. They had a positive test on an OLman the day they left and let the player make the trip to Tallahassee. Incredibly stupid which, of course, Dabo blames on FSU.
Has Cleveland St. been banned from the postseason because of this Dabo situation?
It would be well deserved don't you think?