Active cases are spiking on campus. Now 30. The University just announced that classes till the end of the semester (Nov 25) will go online though apparently there will be accommodations for those wanting to take finals in person. Scary stuff.
Be well!
In late September there were over 40,000 COVID cases among college students since schools resumed in August. And 2 hospitalizations. Maybe things have changed since then.
Paul
After day one of President Padilla's Presidency, he shut down the campus! Great start! Seriously, the campus is going to all online classes because of a serious spike in cases. Let's hope the Basketball team makes it out of town!
Cases are up at VU, bucking the Indiana trend (actually, a nationwide trend) of declining COVID cases. The number of COVID cases reported in Indiana:
March 1 540
February 1 1,709
December 31 6,468
December 1 5,296
November 1 1,709
October 1 1,157
September 1 695
Paul
Valpo had reported no more than 21 active cases at any time since the start of the semester, but it jumped in one day to 78 in the latest report. Definitely a cause for concern.
On Texas Independence Day, our Governor lifted the mask mandate, and businesses are now allowed 100% capacity
Quote from: vu84v2 on March 02, 2021, 03:49:56 PM
Valpo had reported no more than 21 active cases at any time since the start of the semester, but it jumped in one day to 78 in the latest report. Definitely a cause for concern.
I didn't want to use the "like" button here but such as is used on Facebook a "caring" button would work for me here. I'm terribly concerned about that kind of jump during a downturn. Texas citizens should also be concerned.
The situation is not as dire as it seems. The University is doing mandatory testing now, whereas before they only tested kids who exhibited symptoms. As a result, the tests are catching a lot of kids who have had the virus at some point in time dating back to last semester. The vast majority of these positive test results are for kids who have no symptoms whatsoever.
Paul
Paul
Quote from: 78crusader on March 05, 2021, 11:48:23 AM
The situation is not as dire as it seems. The University is doing mandatory testing now, whereas before they only tested kids who exhibited symptoms. As a result, the tests are catching a lot of kids who have had the virus at some point in time dating back to last semester. The vast majority of these positive test results are for kids who have no symptoms whatsoever.
Paul
Paul
Covid tests don't pick up those who have had it in the past. Only an antibody test can tell you that. Yes, the vast majority of people who get Covid are
asiymptotic asymptomatic.
Depends on your definition of "vast". Most analysis suggests that between 50% and 70% of cases are asymptomatic. Might be a bit higher for college students.
The concept of a "Vaccination Passport" is concrete nowhere but under discussion everywhere. How do we best reopen safely? While realizing it could create court fights I'm still thinking that a more favorable entrance policy or seating status for vaccinated will likely happen. Locally (with vaccinations well underway) there is a new push to reopen all public meetings with masks and distancing. Who goes first and how do we make the transition? Who is doing what and where and what are the early results?
Internationally the border relaxations seem to be all over the map. Literally! No final word from Canada but our fly-in fishing outfitter is speculating that proof of vaccination + a negative test result (less than 72 hrs old) should get us across the border where we directly drive to the fly out location, board the float plane and spend our quarantine time with the moose, and bears. I doubt if the local mosquitoes will mind but the fish might. :thumbsup:
Prioritizing nationally all school personnel should be next in line and it looks like it will be. No arguments here. Colleges and Universities should likely fall behind basic 1 thru 12 but you could argue differently.
Quote from: justducky on March 07, 2021, 04:28:43 PM
The concept of a "Vaccination Passport" is concrete nowhere but under discussion everywhere. How do we best reopen safely? While realizing it could create court fights I'm still thinking that a more favorable entrance policy or seating status for vaccinated will likely happen. Locally (with vaccinations well underway) there is a new push to reopen all public meetings with masks and distancing. Who goes first and how do we make the transition? Who is doing what and where and what are the early results?
Internationally the border relaxations seem to be all over the map. Literally! No final word from Canada but our fly-in fishing outfitter is speculating that proof of vaccination + a negative test result (less than 72 hrs old) should get us across the border where we directly drive to the fly out location, board the float plane and spend our quarantine time with the moose, and bears. I doubt if the local mosquitoes will mind but the fish might. :thumbsup:
Prioritizing nationally all school personnel should be next in line and it looks like it will be. No arguments here. Colleges and Universities should likely fall behind basic 1 thru 12 but you could argue differently.
Canadian Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau, was just interviewed on Meet the Press last Sunday and he stated very clearly that Canada had decided nothing about the border with the US and any decisions would be based on the infection rates. Otherwise people are just making guesses.
Great job by Valpo staff and its student body in getting the COVID positive numbers under control in a short time period! While numbers are dropping across the nation, college campuses are still suffering from spikes. Duke just put their entire student body into quarantine conditions.
Per the Wall Street Journal today, numbers of new cases nationally have reached their lowest level since early October. Do you hear that in the MSM?...or from the teachers' unions?
Quote from: crusadermoe on March 15, 2021, 01:42:21 PM
Per the Wall Street Journal today, numbers of new cases nationally have reached their lowest level since early October. Do you hear that in the MSM?...or from the teachers' unions?
The decline in new cases has definitely been reported in detail in the media (as well as ever-increasing numbers of vaccinated people). But the teachers need to get back in the classroom and stop the excuses (excluding the few who have legitimate medical reasons). There is way too much being lost from classes continuing to be remote. Teachers need to understand that they are responsible for students learning, not just filling time in whatever mode they (the teachers) prefer.
Trump encouraging everybody to be vaccinated is overdue but welcome news. Just for today I could kiss him.
Positive COVID-19 tests in March Madness bubble (https://www.wthr.com/article/sports/ncaa/ncaab/march-madness/5-positive-tests-in-march-madness-bubble-6-referees-ruled-out-due-to-covid-19-protocols/531-0d4ce7fb-c788-4990-867d-da2993035e39), lets hope this thing actually goes forward without too many issues like forfeits or players not being allowed to play.
Got my J&J shot today. Glad to know that I just needed the one
Indiana's Governor Holcomb announced today that beginning April 6 Indiana will no longer insist Hoosiers wear face masks in public, follow social distancing guidelines, or limit the size of social gatherings. Individuals, local governments, and businesses, including restaurants, may use their own discretion in setting guidelines, but the state will not interfere. Barring any setbacks, this is seen as a start of the return to normalization. Likewise, Valparaiso University has begun to loosen restrictions in phases. Indoor gatherings of 15 and outdoor gatherings of 30 are permitted, and the fitness center has reopened at 50% capacity. Beginning this weekend, the limits on gatherings rise to 25 indoors and 50 outdoors. In all larger gatherings, face masks and social distancing are still expected. However, recreational sports on campus also will be resumed. The university is hoping to phase toward some form of in-person graduation ceremony in May and full in-person normalization in fall semester. It is anticipated that these developments hopefully will be beneficial to fall enrollment numbers.
This is coming to many universities....Northeastern is one of the largest private universities in the United States.
https://news.northeastern.edu/2021/04/06/northeastern-to-require-covid-19-vaccinations-for-all-students-this-fall/
Add DePaul to the list of schools requiring students to be vaccinated for the Fall semester. Stanford and all UC and Cal State universities too.
This map shows the states where vaccinations are the slowest. As you can see, the deep South leads the way in slowness but Indiana is right there with them. What's up with that?
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations
We are the northern most southern state :crazy:
Quote from: vu72 on April 23, 2021, 08:25:26 AM
This map shows the states where vaccinations are the slowest. As you can see, the deep South leads the way in slowness but Indiana is right there with them. What's up with that?
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations
I heard that at least 60% of adults have to be vaccinated before we can start to bring this epidemic to an end. It seems that a lot of people are figuring that enough people will get vaccinated so they don't have to. In the meantime we look like a society of mask wearing zombies, and people are still dying every day from the disease. My daughter and son-in-law have put it off, even though my wife and I got vaccinated with next to no side effects. So, what happened? My daughter and 2 of their 3 children tested positive 3 days ago. Now the whole family is in quarantine, the boys can't go to school, mom and dad have to work from home, my one grandson will miss multiple track meets, not to mention that my daughter is extremely fatigued and all the other stuff that goes with COVID. My advice to everyone - do your civic duty and get the freaking shots. Yes, there's a minuscule risk of an adverse reaction, but we assume some element of risk in everything we do.
Quote from: vu84v2 on April 23, 2021, 07:56:25 AM
Add DePaul to the list of schools requiring students to be vaccinated for the Fall semester. Stanford and all UC and Cal State universities too.
I am told you will be able to add Valpo to that list.
I can't imagine Valpo wouldn't require vaccines. That will be a significant relief on mitigation policies and procedures and it's not like vaccines haven't been required for ages for college students. Especially something as contagious as COVID has come to be. I think IN Is slower partly do the rigid age roll-out. It kept the procedure orderly and efficient but I don't know that it allowed for the same capacity as others with more lax. Also, it did seem like expansion to the private pharmacies went out slower than in other states with a lot of stuff being focused through the state health department.
Quote from: wh on April 23, 2021, 09:01:08 AM
Quote from: vu72 on April 23, 2021, 08:25:26 AM
This map shows the states where vaccinations are the slowest. As you can see, the deep South leads the way in slowness but Indiana is right there with them. What's up with that?
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations
I heard that at least 60% of adults have to be vaccinated before we can start to bring this epidemic to an end. It seems that a lot of people are figuring that enough people will get vaccinated so they don't have to. In the meantime we look like a society of mask wearing zombies, and people are still dying every day from the disease. My daughter and son-in-law have put it off, even though my wife and I got vaccinated with next to no side effects. So, what happened? My daughter and 2 of their 3 children tested positive 3 days ago. Now the whole family is in quarantine, the boys can't go to school, mom and dad have to work from home, my one grandson will miss multiple track meets, not to mention that my daughter is extremely fatigued and all the other stuff that goes with COVID. My advice to everyone - do your civic duty and get the freaking shots. Yes, there's a minuscule risk of an adverse reaction, but we assume some element of risk in everything we do.
So are you ever going to acknowledge that the previous president approached this pandemic all wrong (saying it would be gone by Easter 2020, not encouraging the wearing of facemasks, saying that covid did not effect him despite that former president receiving an expensive medical treatment that most of us can't afford) and that the current president has done an excellent job of getting shots in arms and getting this country on the slow movement of getting back to normal?
bbts - wh's daughter, son-in-law, and grandchild are sick. Let's just wish them a speedy recovery with no complications. No need for a political argument when someone's loved ones are suffering.
Quote from: crusader05 on April 23, 2021, 09:43:58 AM
I can't imagine Valpo wouldn't require vaccines. That will be a significant relief on mitigation policies and procedures and it's not like vaccines haven't been required for ages for college students. Especially something as contagious as COVID has come to be. I think IN Is slower partly do the rigid age roll-out. It kept the procedure orderly and efficient but I don't know that it allowed for the same capacity as others with more lax. Also, it did seem like expansion to the private pharmacies went out slower than in other states with a lot of stuff being focused through the state health department.
I hope you're right. I'm all about freedom of choice, but our society cannot continue to make special accommodations centered around people who would rather remain masked up, holed up, and social distanced than get vaccinated. If you're a student who doesn't want to get the shot, fine. Take online classes until you change your mind or graduate, whichever comes first. In the meantime, students who no longer need to play the COVID game can resume normal college life.
I don't really think that the people who don't want to get vaccinated have a lot of overlap with those who have been diligent about masking and social distancing.
Quote from: crusader05 on April 26, 2021, 04:20:15 PM
I don't really think that the people who don't want to get vaccinated have a lot of overlap with those who have been diligent about masking and social distancing.
I know what you're saying, and you could be right. At this point, I really don't care who the people are or what their rationale is.
I agree.
I am respectful that vaccines can make people nervous but that can't override the evidence and the need. Much as I'm sure for those people who were more anxious about COVID even being told its "safe" may not feel like enough doesn't mean we don't have policy that matches the current level.
I feel like we will soon be in that weird space where the "pandemic" is over but COVID is still out there at higher levels that may concern those that are immuno compromised and unable to be vaccinated. I hope all people have patience and grace with each other as we navigate this transition back.
Quote from: crusader05 on April 26, 2021, 04:36:48 PM
I agree.
I am respectful that vaccines can make people nervous but that can't override the evidence and the need. Much as I'm sure for those people who were more anxious about COVID even being told its "safe" may not feel like enough doesn't mean we don't have policy that matches the current level.
I feel like we will soon be in that weird space where the "pandemic" is over but COVID is still out there at higher levels that may concern those that are immuno compromised and unable to be vaccinated. I hope all people have patience and grace with each other as we navigate this transition back.
Thank you for pointing that out. That's the danger of making a blanket statement.
Quote from: wh on April 26, 2021, 04:14:06 PM
Quote from: crusader05 on April 23, 2021, 09:43:58 AM
I can't imagine Valpo wouldn't require vaccines. That will be a significant relief on mitigation policies and procedures and it's not like vaccines haven't been required for ages for college students. Especially something as contagious as COVID has come to be. I think IN Is slower partly do the rigid age roll-out. It kept the procedure orderly and efficient but I don't know that it allowed for the same capacity as others with more lax. Also, it did seem like expansion to the private pharmacies went out slower than in other states with a lot of stuff being focused through the state health department.
I hope you're right. I'm all about freedom of choice, but our society cannot continue to make special accommodations centered around people who would rather remain masked up, holed up, and social distanced than get vaccinated. If you're a student who doesn't want to get the shot, fine. Take online classes until you change your mind or graduate, whichever comes first. In the meantime, students who no longer need to play the COVID game can resume normal college life.
As I reported previously, Pres. Padilla has announced that this spring graduation ceremonies will be in-person. Also, I am told Valpo will require vaccines of all in the fall with some obvious exemptions.
Quote from: valpopal on April 26, 2021, 05:38:00 PM
As I reported previously, Pres. Padilla has announced that this spring graduation ceremonies will be in-person. Also, I am told Valpo will require vaccines of all in the fall with some obvious exemptions.
It is now official. The Valparaiso University has announced all faculty, staff, and students must be vaccinated for Covid before returning for fall semester. Limited exemptions on religious or medical grounds will be considered.
Hopefully this will help the kids have a relatively normal year next year.
The 18 - 29 age group accounts 0.0037% of all Covid deaths in this country. I will give President Trump credit for operation warp speed, but let's face it, no one really knows whether there will be any long-term negative effects from the vaccine. I believe a valid argument can be made that the potential risks to college-age students getting the vaccine outweigh the potential risk of contracting the virus, which for the vast majority of young people results in mild and transient symptoms.
Another hasty and unnecessary decision by the University.
Paul
From An Earlier Comment: The 18 - 29 age group accounts 0.0037% of all Covid deaths in this country. I will give President Trump credit for operation warp speed, but let's face it, no one really knows whether there will be any long-term negative effects from the vaccine. I believe a valid argument can be made that the potential risks to college-age students getting the vaccine outweigh the potential risk of contracting the virus, which for the vast majority of young people results in mild and transient symptoms.
Another hasty and unnecessary decision by the University.
Response: Do you know what the longterm effects is of getting Covid and recovering is? Such an infection has not been studied long enough to determine if there are any long term negative effects, even to a small minority. Vaccines have been administered and studied for many years including their general mechanisms of action even though the specific ones for Covid may be relatively new. I would rather go with the preponderance of the medical community that proclaims them worth the risk rather than an outlier group that raises doubt but with little or no credible evidence. And by the way, President Trump had little or no significant contribution to the speed of vaccine development that has been substantiated by anything credible that I have heard about. Give credit to the scientists and researchers (many non-US) where credit is due.
It looks like we have some new members of the "Mask Generation".
Quote from: valpo64 on April 28, 2021, 11:41:23 AMI would rather go with the preponderance of the medical community that proclaims them worth the risk rather than an outlier group that raises doubt but with little or no credible evidence.
It appears the criticism of those who choose not to get the vaccine is in full swing. Rather than call such persons "outliers," I would submit they are being cautious about taking a vaccine approved for emergency use. Young people especially should be wary - no one has any idea of the long term effects of the vaccine - for example, if a 23-year old woman decides not to get the shot since there are no studies on whether the vaccine has a deleterious effect on fertility, that is a perfectly reasonable choice.
I got the vaccine since at age 65 I am at higher risk than, say, the 23-year old mentioned above. I am not anti-vaccine. I simply made the point that for young people, there can be a genuine, legitimate debate of the risks involved in getting the vaccine vs not getting the vaccine - and they shouldn't be forced to get vaccinated by VU.
Paul
Here's some current advice from the medical community for young people:
Young people should get vaccinated to avoid the long-term consequences of Covid-19, the director of the National Institutes of Health said Wednesday,
its"one critical way to prevent long Covid is to prevent Covid itself," NIH director Dr. Francis Collins said at a House Energy and Commerce subcommittee hearing. "Even for young people who consider their risk of severe Covid to be low, the long-term consequences can be quite serious. So long Covid represents one more reason to encourage everyone age 16 and over to get vaccinated as quickly as possible."
Here's some more advice, this time from Dr. Fauci, issued just today: children should continue wearing masks ... while playing OUTSIDE.
Paul
It's good to remember that people in public health and the CDC also recommend things like not eating eggs sunnyside up or meat cooked Rare.
They're always going to be more cautious than the general populace. Their guidance for kids is the same as for all unvaccinated people. Right now, they view any risk to passing the virus on prior to herd immunity as something to be mitigated as they will view most lives lost as unnecessary due to our current vaccination process. Which is why we should encourage young people who are eligible to get vaccinated. The reality is we know much more about long-term risks for vaccines than we do long-term risks for COVID.
Saw it pointed out by some of the conservative news organizations that the attendees at the President's speech last night sent the exact wrong message on COVID. Everyone in that room had been vaccinated yet they all sat 6 feet apart and were wearing masks, in some cases double masks. If you wanted to send the message of hope for the future the place should have been packed with vaccinated people and it should have been explained that our normal social lives can once again be obtained if people are vaccinated to protect the people around them. The spectacle last night just showed continued fear and governmental confusion because the CDC actually now states that masks are not required in completely vaccinated groups even indoors.
Amen! Brother...but the show must go on!
Trump certainly had big flaws. But no one can take away his work on Operation Warp Speed. But the dufus on this board a few posts back said he knows of no evidence Trump played any role in the vaccine rollout. It's lot information voters like him that give us Maxine Waters, Gerald Nadler, and the squad.
How about the fact that they pre-negotiated prices with drug prices so that they could immediately go out to the public? And how about ordering them in hand so that they could go immediately once tests succeeded.
Cringeworthy to see Biden trying to act like his 100 days had an impact.
Quote from: FWalum on April 29, 2021, 10:48:51 AM
Saw it pointed out by some of the conservative news organizations that the attendees at the President's speech last night sent the exact wrong message on COVID. Everyone in that room had been vaccinated yet they all sat 6 feet apart and were wearing masks, in some cases double masks. If you wanted to send the message of hope for the future the place should have been packed with vaccinated people and it should have been explained that our normal social lives can once again be obtained if people are vaccinated to protect the people around them. The spectacle last night just showed continued fear and governmental confusion because the CDC actually now states that masks are not required in completely vaccinated groups even indoors.
I do not think that the assumption that everyone in the room had been vaccinated is true (it is probably very close). My guess is that, like the rest of the population, there are some senators and representatives who refuse to get vaccinates. However, I agree with you if your assumptions are true. They could have set a policy of "no social distancing, no masks, more in attendance" by requiring all attendees to show that they have been vaccinated. That would have sent a far more positive message about vaccinations...but it also would have created a firestorm of people complaining that they or others were somehow discriminated against because they chose not to be vaccinated.
Here is what makes me laugh...
My stepfather telling me he doesn't want to get the vaccine because he doesn't know what's in it, yet he eats at McDonald's three days a week.
A friend of mine in Valpo telling me she doesn't want the vaccine because she doesn't want the government to track her. She sent me that in a Facebook message.
One eats food that isn't real and the other is already being tracked...yet the vaccine is the problem?
Quote from: 78crusader on April 27, 2021, 08:24:14 PM
The 18 - 29 age group accounts 0.0037% of all Covid deaths in this country. I will give President Trump credit for operation warp speed, but let's face it, no one really knows whether there will be any long-term negative effects from the vaccine. I believe a valid argument can be made that the potential risks to college-age students getting the vaccine outweigh the potential risk of contracting the virus, which for the vast majority of young people results in mild and transient symptoms.
Another hasty and unnecessary decision by the University.
Paul
Back to the post that started this debate.
What do you propose Valpo should do? Private universities like Valpo must have in-person teaching and can't afford to have classrooms socially distanced. Online education is poor, hybrid classes are not good enough. Students need to have a social and campus life as close as possible to pre-COVID - parties, clubs, events, concerts, sporting events, etc. Private universities charge a premium for the education and environment they provide and without everything I listed (and more) that premium is not justifiable. Wearing masks is uncomfortable at best. Universities need revenues from revenue-generating sports. And, with all of that, the university needs to be safe for students, faculty and staff. Requiring vaccinations for students, faculty and staff, given voluminous information from medical experts, is the best option (though it is not perfect).
As for your point that the decision was "hasty"...parents and students are making choices of what school to attend now (submitting the deposit is the real inflection point of choice). The deadline for deposits is probably (soft) May 1st and (hard) June 1st. Making the decision in July would create more unknowns for families that need to make choices now.
Quote from: Pgmado on April 29, 2021, 03:55:23 PM
Here is what makes me laugh...
My stepfather telling me he doesn't want to get the vaccine because he doesn't know what's in it, yet he eats at McDonald's three days a week.
A friend of mine in Valpo telling me she doesn't want the vaccine because she doesn't want the government to track her. She sent me that in a Facebook message.
One eats food that isn't real and the other is already being tracked...yet the vaccine is the problem?
Folks who listen only to their left or right wing news sources should do so at their own risks. Personally I want to know how business people are assembling and interpreting information to best advance their profit motivations. They tend to over research their studies and their numbers. They need their clearest pictures of reality, science and probability to be successful. Tune business in and listen to every point of view. Tune the morons out! In 6 or less months reality will start migrating toward the center and the center is where reality has always hidden.
Oh--- and business is very largely (close to overwhelmingly) pro vaccination and that should not be a surprise!
Here's a List of Colleges That Will Require Students or Employees to Be Vaccinated Against Covid-19
By Andy Thomason
MAY 3, 2021
[Last updated: 5/4/2021, 11:25 a.m.]
According to the article, Valpo is 1 of 209 universities to date that will require students to be vaccinated.
Note: Free sign-up required to access the article. Also, if you decide to peruse The Chronicle website, be aware that they have a far left point of view.
https://www.chronicle.com/blogs/live-coronavirus-updates/heres-a-list-of-colleges-that-will-require-students-to-be-vaccinated-against-covid-19?cid=gen_sign_in
I understand the hesitancy of requiring the vaccine since it is still only has emergency use FDA approval, but I would be shocked if it wasn't fully approved this month. Then I no longer understand the hesitancy. Being full vaccinated myself, I continue to marvel at the relief I feel, especially when I am out in public.
AMEN, bb33!
Apparently, China is better at spreading disease than fighting it.
https://in.news.yahoo.com/seychelles-worlds-most-vaccinated-nation-081710301.html
Yes I've seen the EUA mentioned as hesitancy but the reality is we now have massive trials with people who will have been vaccinnated for over a year from the first phases so I cannot imagine it will be long before it's fully approved. They will be getting and EUA soon for 12-15 and it looks like the plan is to hopefully apply for one from 2-11 by early September.
If this vaccine works - and it does- then why can't we live like it works?
Paul
Because we are still in the process of vaccinated the population which means many are still unprotected which means they can both get it and also can pass it around still.
Also most places are setting dates and parameters for relaxing requirements already with concerts and other things being scheduled. It's not like a switch flip, it's going to be a gradual relaxation based on state and local vaccination rates. The best thing we can all do right now is to encourage everyone we know to get vaccinated to help create that environment sooner.
But how can the unprotected pass it on to those who are protected? Isn't that the point of the vaccine?
Paul
They have measured a decreased risk of infection and practically eliminated severe illness and death but people can still catch and pass it on. Although the likelihood is decreased but as long as there is still a substantial amount traveling around in the unvaccinated population the amount of vaccinated people who may catch it and spread it will be higher. The goal is to vaccinate as many people as possible so that the spread gets strangled out as much as possible to prevent break out cases and variants.
In April the CDC reported that out of 66 million people at that time who were fully vaccinated, 5800 had gotten the virus. That is less than 1 in 10,000.
I repeat: if the vaccine works, let us live like it works.
In the meantime, we will continue to endure ridiculous episodes of COVID fear, like the 4 police officers who escorted an elderly man out of a baseball stadium for not wearing a mask - although he was sitting by himself in an outdoor stadium; Joe Biden wearing a mask outside to announce it is no longer necessary to wear a mask outside; the rule in DC prohibiting guests at wedding receptions from dancing, including the bride and groom (imagine what they will likely be doing later in the evening); Brookline, Mass., for adopting a regulation that despite new CDC guidelines, citizens must still wear a mask outdoors; or the newly announced rules for summer campers requiring everyone 2 years old and up to wear masks at all times except when eating or swimming.
Paul
These are rough numbers, but they're close enough for illustration. 5% of people who haven't been vaccinated contract COVID. The effective rate of people who have been vaccinated is 96%. That tells me that the chance of someone vaccinated contracting COVID is 4% of 5%, or .2%. That, my friends, is infinitesimal. You don't social distance for that, you don't work from home for that, and you don't continue to mask-up in public to make people who don't want to get vaccinated more comfortable. I don't wear a mask anywhere, including stores that still insist on it. I keep hoping a mask nazi calls me on it, but no takers so far. Bottom line - I'm done.
My point though is that there's a difference between an individual's risk and the larger public risk which is impacted by how many people are unvaccinated and therefore still able to contract and spread the virus amongst themselves.
Right now many individuals are fully vaccinated but not everyone is, giving the vaccination process time to reach more people while keeping some mandates in place to protect those that cannot get immunized yet, such as children or the those who are ill, is the point of the continued restrictions.
Many states have already targeted dates where state wide restrictions will be waived b/c they know a larger portion of their population will be vaccinated and therefore the risk for all will have significantly decreased. The best thing we can do is to not sit here and complain but to work on those in our family and friend circle who are vaccine hesitant to get the vaccine so that we can reach a critical mass of people sooner rather than later.
Quote from: 78crusader on May 05, 2021, 08:22:08 PMI repeat: if the vaccine works, let us live like it works.
The quicker everyone can get vaccinated the quicker life can return to "normal." In the meantime, wearing a mask isn't a burden. I'm still surprised that people haven't learned that we're all in this thing together...
Ah, the masked generation...some will wear masks the rest of their lives, no matter what age they are now, scared to death they will catch a cold, get the flu, or whatever.
Personally, I have enjoyed not catching a cold, or the flu this past year And I may wear a mask permanently on planes. TBD. A mask is a small inconvenience. I'd rather not be sick. But that's me. Afraid? No. Just would rather be out living and enjoying life than feeling miserable, especially if I can prevent it. That is also why we wash our hands and use hand sanitizer. I will continue to be diligent about that too, as I always have.
Many people seem to be focused on masks as the big issue. I am a big fan of get vaccinated and don't wear a mask unless the facility owner requires it (and don't make a big deal of it if they do - if you don't like it, don't go there and don't give them your business). And if you want to keep wearing a mask in certain situations, you are free to do so.
But the far bigger issue from an economic and lifestyle standpoint is social distancing. Concerts, sporting events, restaurants, festivals, etc. are not viable with social distancing requirements. It is good that events are now being planned (with tickets sold) which require attendees to show that they have been vaccinated or have tested negative for COVID within three days of the event. Universities going "fully open" (with a few minor exceptions), but requiring vaccinations for all students (and preferably faculty and staff) is also the right move.
Fully vaccinated people can ditch masks indoors, physical distancing: CDC
"People who are fully vaccinated against coronavirus no longer need to wear masks while indoors or outdoors or physical distance in either large or small gatherings, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky announced during a White House COVID-19 briefing Thursday."
https://www.foxnews.com/health/cdc-fully-vaccinated-people-no-masks-indoors
I just discarded my 1 remaining mask. 14 months of misery finally in the rear view mirror. :thumbsup:
Here's a List of Colleges That Will Require Students or Employees to Be Vaccinated Against Covid-19
By Andy Thomason and Brian O'Leary
MAY 13, 2021
[Last updated: 5/13/2021, 4:48 p.m.]
Up to 348 campuses currently. 3 in IN - Valpo, ND, Depauw.
https://www.chronicle.com/blogs/live-coronavirus-updates/heres-a-list-of-colleges-that-will-require-students-to-be-vaccinated-against-covid-19?utm_source=Iterable&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=campaign_2337074_nl_Academe-Today_date_20210514&cid=at&source=&sourceId=&cid2=gen_login_refresh
A teacher in Poynette, WI berates a student who has been vaccinated for not wearing a mask in the classroom. This is after the CDC and Biden announced that people who have been vaccinated no longer need to wear a mask indoors or outdoors, or social distance. She has been put on administrative leave.
https://twitter.com/simonelhanna/status/1393273814847565827?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1393273814847565827%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thegatewaypundit.com%2F2021%2F05%2Fshocking-video-insane-teacher-berates-vaccinated-student-not-wearing-mask-calls-jerk-tells-nobody-likes%2F
Quote from: wh on May 14, 2021, 09:31:11 PMShe has been put on administrative leave.
Good.
On leave? She should be FIRED!
She should not berate a student, but her general point is accurate. If someone isn't 3-4 weeks past their final vaccination, they can still get it from vaccinated people. The vaccine doesn't mean that you can't transmit it to other people. This board has to be smarter than believing that the mask wearing is only protecting yourself. Do I think a mask mandate is still needed? No.
I am dealing with this stupid crap in my hometown/city, with a bunch of the extremist folks from my party (full-blooded Republican here), touting a bunch of BS theories around masks, Critical Race Theory, and racial quotas for Gifted & Talent programs in the school system. Google Colleyville or Southlake, TX, and don't be these people making the news for ignorance...oh yeah, F the True Texas Project/Texas Tea Party.
Quote from: valpotx on May 15, 2021, 02:30:37 PMf someone isn't 3-4 weeks past their final vaccination, they can still get it from vaccinated people. The vaccine doesn't mean that you can't transmit it to other people.
Don't think that's right. https://www.healthline.com/health-news/cdc-says-vaccinated-people-dont-need-to-wear-masks-in-most-indoor-settings#Vaccinated-people-are-well-protected-against-COVID-19
The article says in part..
."The vaccines also cut people's ability to transmit the infection and make post-vaccination transmission very unlikely.
"Even if vaccinated people do carry tiny bits of virus in their nose without symptoms, it's not likely to be in any significant amount to infect other people. Basically, once you have been vaccinated, you are safe yourself, and you are safe to be around other people," McBride said.
Right, but it says 'cut' and 'very unlikely.' That doesn't mean it doesn't or can't happen for vaccinated folks. Point me to data that shows it can't happen, and I will change my statement.
Quote from: valpotx on May 15, 2021, 07:45:12 PM
Right, but it says 'cut' and 'very unlikely.' That doesn't mean it doesn't or can't happen for vaccinated folks. Point me to data that shows it can't happen, and I will change my statement.
And you can be hit by lightening as well.
Statement that I made:
"The vaccine doesn't mean that you can't transmit it to other people."
It is too early to tell what % of vaccinated folks can still transmit COVID to non-vaccinated folks, as the vaccines are too recent.
Quote from: valpotx on May 16, 2021, 01:08:04 PM
Statement that I made:
"The vaccine doesn't mean that you can't transmit it to other people."
It is too early to tell what % of vaccinated folks can still transmit COVID to non-vaccinated folks, as the vaccines are too recent.
Tex - Is there a purpose to your point? Are you suggesting that Biden and the CDC erred in announcing that people who have been vaccinated no longer need to wear masks or social distance?
Uh, the point was made in my original response to that video:
She should not berate a student, but her general point is accurate. If someone isn't 3-4 weeks past their final vaccination, they can still get it from vaccinated people. The vaccine doesn't mean that you can't transmit it to other people. This board has to be smarter than believing that the mask wearing is only protecting yourself. Do I think a mask mandate is still needed? No.
Quote from: valpotx on May 16, 2021, 04:13:07 PM
Uh, the point was made in my original response to that video:
She should not berate a student, but her general point is accurate. If someone isn't 3-4 weeks past their final vaccination, they can still get it from vaccinated people. The vaccine doesn't mean that you can't transmit it to other people. This board has to be smarter than believing that the mask wearing is only protecting yourself. Do I think a mask mandate is still needed? No.
She sounds like a petulant child whatever the circumstance. A clerk at the local Family Express comes face-to-face with hundreds of customers every day, none of whom have to wear a mask. Some have been vaccinated, some haven't. Some might be carrying COVID. Like everyone who serves the public, the clerk has 3 choices: wear a mask and hope for the best, quit, or man up and get vaccinated and stop living in fear.
Now consider this. The teacher is on the job 180 days a year (36 weeks); a full-time clerking job is 50 weeks a year. That's 40% more exposure time dealing with infinitely more people along the way. Then there's the icing on the cake. All teachers have spent at least some part of last year teaching from home, while store clerks (and most everyone else in the real world) have had to get up, gear up, and go out there and face the music every day with a smile on their face.
Teachers aren't anything special, they've just been told they are for so long they have a sense of entitlement that no one else has, or would dare have. The teacher in the video is not a sympathetic figure under incredible stress; she's a spoiled brat who bullies kids because she can.
LOL, Teachers aren't anything special, they've just been told they are for so long they have a sense of entitlement that no one else has, or would dare have.....this may be the goofiest thing you've ever said, and I don't say that lightly.
Quote from: wh on May 17, 2021, 04:46:54 AM
Quote from: valpotx on May 16, 2021, 04:13:07 PM
Uh, the point was made in my original response to that video:
She should not berate a student, but her general point is accurate. If someone isn't 3-4 weeks past their final vaccination, they can still get it from vaccinated people. The vaccine doesn't mean that you can't transmit it to other people. This board has to be smarter than believing that the mask wearing is only protecting yourself. Do I think a mask mandate is still needed? No.
She sounds like a petulant child whatever the circumstance. A clerk at the local Family Express comes face-to-face with hundreds of customers every day, none of whom have to wear a mask. Some have been vaccinated, some haven't. Some might be carrying COVID. Like everyone who serves the public, the clerk has 3 choices: wear a mask and hope for the best, quit, or man up and get vaccinated and stop living in fear.
Now consider this. The teacher is on the job 180 days a year (36 weeks); a full-time clerking job is 50 weeks a year. That's 40% more exposure time dealing with infinitely more people along the way. Then there's the icing on the cake. All teachers have spent at least some part of last year teaching from home, while store clerks (and most everyone else in the real world) have had to get up, gear up, and go out there and face the music every day with a smile on their face.
Teachers aren't anything special, they've just been told they are for so long they have a sense of entitlement that no one else has, or would dare have. The teacher in the video is not a sympathetic figure under incredible stress; she's a spoiled brat who bullies kids because she can.
Teachers aren't anything special is easily the most ignorant thing ever written on this message board. Every teacher made a decision at some point in their lives whether they were going to pursue their own dreams or they were going to help others fulfill theirs. As a teacher myself, I'm not here to tell you I'm God's gift or anything, but I could've left this place long ago, become a national writer, written books and chased my own accomplishments. Instead, I draw joy from watching my students succeed. I've found purpose in sacrificing my own accomplishments (and finances) so I can help others. So lose it with this teachers aren't anything special :censored:. What have you given back to the world?
It just isn't the same thing. Having 100 interactions of 30-60 seconds each day, versus shepherding 15-30+ kids each day for 7-8 hours, and on top of that aspect, having to put up with some really insane parents that like to flout community expectations for their own 'freedoms.' I used to be much further right on the political spectrum than I am now, and even my own dumb a$$ 18-22 year old self, would never have said what you just mentioned.
Valpo announcement:
In response to the newly released CDC guidelines, beginning this fall, Valpo students who are fully vaccinated can gather in groups and will not be required to wear face coverings on campus. As a reminder, Valparaiso University will require every full-time, part-time, or audit student to complete a COVID-19 vaccination program by Aug. 1, 2021. A vaccinated campus means that you can look forward to the full Valpo campus experience this fall.
Quote from: valpotx on May 17, 2021, 11:53:41 PM
It just isn't the same thing. Having 100 interactions of 30-60 seconds each day, versus shepherding 15-30+ kids each day for 7-8 hours, and on top of that aspect, having to put up with some really insane parents that like to flout community expectations for their own 'freedoms.' I used to be much further right on the political spectrum than I am now, and even my own dumb a$$ 18-22 year old self, would never have said what you just mentioned.
Rather than wasting time trying to help you understand how convoluted your logic is, hopefully this gets us there faster:
The world started dealing with the COVID pandemic 14 months ago. Every teacher in the United States, bar none, worked from home for the first 3 months and sat home the next 3. As you may recall the first 6 were the worst 6. We had no protocols, no proven therapy drugs, hospitals were overwhelmed with sick people,. Immediately, we experienced severe shortages of ventilators, masks, gloves and gowns, Nursing home residents in some areas were dropping like flies. We learned through painful experience that standard ventilator protocols didn't work, and were in fact adding to the death count. There were so many dead bodies in the New York metropolitan area they had to be stored in refrigerated trucks. Manufacturers were forced to make ventilators and PPE 24/7. Along the way everyday people from every walk of life began losing their jobs and small businesses. Many people were flat broke - busted - livelihoods and lives destroyed. Those who still had jobs, had to figure out what to do with their school-aged children who were suddenly stuck at home and exposed to on-line learning and complete isolation for the first time in their lives. There were no instruction manuals or best practices. Everything was learn as you go. When people finally started asking when schools were going to open up again, they were sumarily tarred and feathered by haughty bubble dwellers, who in the irony of all ironies called them selfish and a thousand oother profanity-laced descriptives. Some school systems finally began to open up in September 2020, and teachers were forced to put their health at risk for the first time since the pandemic began. Of course, this didn't happen without a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth, threats, etc. from teachers unions (a powerful advocate that only a small portion of the workforce is privy to). So, let's fastforward to the present. Only half of school systems in the country are fully back to in-person instruction. Not only has NYC not reopened at all, they're debating whether they'll "be ready" by the beginning of next school year.
To be absolutely clear, I have no animosity toward teachers. I'm not jealous of their priveleged status. I don't begrudge them for receiving the same stimulus checks that people who lost their jobs, or had their hours reduced, or lost their businesses, or their savings, or had to borrow money to survive, or leave their children alone all day, or continuously baby sat a loved one's children, or contracted COVID, or lived in fear every day of contracting COVID through constant daily exposure, who lived not a prison sentence with a set time to be released but became prisoners of war never knowing from one day to the next when or if their imprisonment and punishment would ever end. Those are the the "special" people.
Oh, one more thing, the COVID vaccine has been available to everyone for several weeks. All the obnoxious WI teacher had to do was go get it and get on with her life. But, apparently she'd rather bully a kid who had the courage to do what she doesn't have. She's choosing to live in misery and fear. No one else owns her situation but her.
I always laugh at the idea that teachers don't work during the summer. As I write this, I'm sitting in my office, working on my summer courses that I'm teaching. I'm also outlining my lesson plans for my classes I'll be teaching in the fall. As a professor in journalism and communication, I'll be spending the next three months doing research on trends in the industry and updating my lectures. Teachers don't magically show up in August after three months of sunning ourselves on the beach and have all of our lesson plans and lectures ready to go. While you might not believe it, teachers do work year round.
As for teaching during those first three months as well as during the 2020-21 school year, let me borrow some of your words. "There were no instruction manuals or best practices. Everything was learn as you go." Yes, I received stimulus checks, and yes, I did with them exactly what they were intended to do. I stimulated the economy. We ordered take out from a different local restaurant every Sunday. We donated to food shelters. We put that money directly back into the hands of the people that needed it.
I'd write more, but I have to go back to work. What a novel concept.
Quote from: Pgmado on May 18, 2021, 12:37:10 PM
I always laugh at the idea that teachers don't work during the summer. As I write this, I'm sitting in my office, working on my summer courses that I'm teaching. I'm also outlining my lesson plans for my classes I'll be teaching in the fall. As a professor in journalism and communication, I'll be spending the next three months doing research on trends in the industry and updating my lectures. Teachers don't magically show up in August after three months of sunning ourselves on the beach and have all of our lesson plans and lectures ready to go. While you might not believe it, teachers do work year round.
As for teaching during those first three months as well as during the 2020-21 school year, let me borrow some of your words. "There were no instruction manuals or best practices. Everything was learn as you go." Yes, I received stimulus checks, and yes, I did with them exactly what they were intended to do. I stimulated the economy. We ordered take out from a different local restaurant every Sunday. We donated to food shelters. We put that money directly back into the hands of the people that needed it.
I'd write more, but I have to go back to work. What a novel concept.
I was referring specifically to the people we commonly refer to as "Teachers," not "College Professors." That said, I found myself dealing with an issue the other day that left me wondering about this group's summer activity level. My HS junior grandson (cousin to the thrower) wants to pursue a history/archaeology/anthropology academic track in college. My daughter has lined up 3 official college visits with universities with strong history programs. Two of the universities have lined up Professors from History to explain their programs, talk about career paths, archeology digs, internships, the whole 9. At the third college an admissions person told her that meeting with someone from history probably wouldn't be possible until the fall semester because their faculty members are on 9 month contracts and aren't available. When my daughter pressed her on it, she said she can ask and someone might be willing to come in, but no one is required to. Now he's going to 2 college visits in the next month.
Quote from: wh on May 18, 2021, 01:27:44 PMI was referring specifically to the people we commonly refers to as "Teachers," not "College Professors." That said, I found myself dealing with an issue the other day that left me wondering about this group's summer activity level. My HS junior grandson (cousin to the thrower) wants to pursue a history/archaeology/anthropology academic track in college. My daughter has lined up 3 official college visits with universities with strong history programs. Two of the universities have lined up Professors from History to explain their programs, talk about career paths, archeology digs, internships, the whole 9. At the third college an admissions person told her that meeting with someone from history probably wouldn't be possible until the fall semester because their faculty members are on 9 month contracts and aren't available. When my daughter pressed her on it, she said she can ask and someone might be willing to come in, but no one is required to. Now he's going to 2 college visits in the next month.
I can't refute that. It's a frustration for me when I see professors who don't want to meet with students. Personally, I'm meeting with a prospective sports journalism student from Hamilton Southeastern on Friday morning. I'm excited to meet with the student.
Teachers are on the job 180 days a year. My hope is that you haven't been around many teachers. Most teachers spend their Saturday mornings or Sunday evenings grading papers, revising lesson plans to meet district/school requirements, and considering how to make the next "unit" informative and interesting. You also fail to account for teachers who are involved in extracurricular activities. Teachers also coach, conduct bands or orchestras, accompany students to academic competitions, direct school plays, supervise school clubs and organizations, chaperone dances, etc. In schools with limited resources, teachers routinely spend their summers painting their classrooms, collecting school supplies for students, providing tutoring to students, with much of the expenses coming out of their own pockets. While you can always find a person in any profession who behaves badly and it reflects on the entire profession, making general statements about how much teachers work is reckless. Some of us can point to people in our own lives who were teachers, and can assure you that all teachers aren't on the gravy train.
If you really want to get educated on SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19), then you need to watch the Dark Horse Podcast by evolutionary biologists Heather Heying and Bret Weinstein. They review and critique current research and the many hypotheses surrounding the origin of the virus and also the MRNA vaccines. Natural Antibodies and the COVID Vaccines (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dX_Cr7lh-g&t=244s) Spike Protein Hazard (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMjPtDK8evg&t=96s) How Many Cells are Damaged to Achieve Immunity? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDu8mUji6Ww&t=176s) Lab Leak Theory (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEPwW4rfyFk&t=120s)
No, I am not an Anti-Vaxxer. As some of you will remember from earlier posts on this topic, I had a severe case of the virus. I was finally cleared to get the vaccine 2 weeks ago and have gotten my first shot. Drs. Heying and Weinstein are not right-wing activists, they are social liberals that are very concerned with the politicization of science and the fact that competing hypothesis to the natural origin of the virus were not allowed to even be discussed and debated, for fear of being called a conspiracy theorist, until early this year. Now it seems most probable that the virus was a "Gain of Function" experiment that got out of the lab and the global research community is just now looking at this virus through the proverbial correct lens. My wife is a Biochemist and she also has become concerned at the lack of rigor shown in proper scientific investigation in regards to SARS-CoV-2
Here is a link to the "Smoking Gun" investigative paper published about 2 weeks ago that is discussed in the videos linked above. The origin of COVID: Did people or nature open Pandora's box at Wuhan? (https://thebulletin.org/2021/05/the-origin-of-covid-did-people-or-nature-open-pandoras-box-at-wuhan/)
BILL MAHR WITH HEATHER HEYING & BRET WEINSTEIN: THE LAB HYPOTHESIS (https://www.real-time-with-bill-maher-blog.com/index/2021/1/29/heather-heying-amp-bret-weinstein-the-lab-theory)
They are discussing and evaluating the absolute latest research and information on the virus. Most people are way behind the curve on this stuff, consider yourself now armed to know exactly what you are talking about in relation to SARS-CoV-2.
Just please tell me that no one here is doing the same as members of my city's racist city council, and still calling COVID the Wuhan or Chinese Virus/Flu.
Quote from: valpotx on May 15, 2021, 02:30:37 PM
She should not berate a student, but her general point is accurate. If someone isn't 3-4 weeks past their final vaccination, they can still get it from vaccinated people. The vaccine doesn't mean that you can't transmit it to other people. This board has to be smarter than believing that the mask wearing is only protecting yourself. Do I think a mask mandate is still needed? No.
I am dealing with this stupid crap in my hometown/city, with a bunch of the extremist folks from my party (full-blooded Republican here), touting a bunch of BS theories around masks, Critical Race Theory, and racial quotas for Gifted & Talent programs in the school system. Google Colleyville or Southlake, TX, and don't be these people making the news for ignorance...oh yeah, F the True Texas Project/Texas Tea Party.
A close relative of mine is a conservative who teaches in a liberal, highly racially diverse school district with mostly white teachers. He's a great guy who loves his job. He's also astute enough to know that white male conservatives have become enemy number-1 of the radical left. He knows that he could become an easy mark for the cancel culture - doxxing, comments from recorded on-line class sessions taken out of context, smear campaign, etc.
My advice to him was play the game. Do what you have to do to survive. Change the tone of your tweets and Facebook posts. Talk about how your views have evolved (Obama's term from his 180 about gay marriage) as you've gotten older and wiser. Publicly surrender your rights to express opinions relative to racial and gender issues - "How could I as a privileged 45-year-old white male possibly understand what you're dealing with?"
So, that's his life now until the Bolshevik's are driven from power. Living underground, keeping his thoughts to himself, parroting leftist talk as required, protecting his reputation, his livelihood, and his family.
Godspeed, Tex. Till we meet again...
Quote from: valpotx on May 19, 2021, 02:18:18 AM
Just please tell me that no one here is doing the same as members of my city's racist city council, and still calling COVID the Wuhan or Chinese Virus/Flu.
I do not use those terms, but I also certainly do not regard them as racist. In fact, in discussions I always emphasize the truth about the responsibility of the Chinese government and the Wuhan lab, both their actions and inactions, for the horrible consequences we have witnessed the past two years. At the start of the pandemic, news agencies—including CNN, MSNBC, New York Times, and others—referenced the "China virus" or the "Wuhan virus." However, seeing the responsibility and focus placed on the Chinese government (rightfully so) rather than Trump—who used the term "China virus" to highlight the culpability of the Chinese government (not the people)—where Democrats and reporters wanted to place blame, the messaging was changed. Dr. Fauci even called it the "Wuhan virus" (he and the media still occasionally label variants as "the London strain," "the South African strain," or "the Indian strain"). However, like many in the medical establishment who also originally said "Wuhan virus," Fauci realized that pointing out the origins in Wuhan, specifically bringing attention to the work at the lab, would not reflect well on them (him), especially those who authorized and signed off on funding for the virus experiments at the lab.
Quote from: valpopal on May 19, 2021, 10:15:26 AM
Quote from: valpotx on May 19, 2021, 02:18:18 AM
Just please tell me that no one here is doing the same as members of my city's racist city council, and still calling COVID the Wuhan or Chinese Virus/Flu.
I do not use those terms, but I also certainly do not regard them as racist. In fact, in discussions I always emphasize the truth about the responsibility of the Chinese government and the Wuhan lab, both their actions and inactions, for the horrible consequences we have witnessed the past two years. At the start of the pandemic, news agencies—including CNN, MSNBC, New York Times, and others—referenced the "China virus" or the "Wuhan virus." However, seeing the responsibility and focus placed on the Chinese government (rightfully so) rather than Trump—who used the term "China virus" to highlight the culpability of the Chinese government (not the people)—where Democrats and reporters wanted to place blame, the messaging was changed. Dr. Fauci even called it the "Wuhan virus" (he and the media still occasionally label variants as "the London strain," "the South African strain," or "the Indian strain"). However, like many in the medical establishment who also originally said "Wuhan virus," Fauci realized that pointing out the origins in Wuhan, specifically bringing attention to the work at the lab, would not reflect well on them (him), especially those who authorized and signed off on funding for the virus experiments at the lab.
And having written that, have you thought about the reality of the idiots running around in this country assaulting Asian Americans? You may not regard them as racist but street thugs apparently do. How else would you justify the thousands of attacks on Asians? Geez.
Quote from: vu72 on May 19, 2021, 10:25:10 AM
Quote from: valpopal on May 19, 2021, 10:15:26 AM
Quote from: valpotx on May 19, 2021, 02:18:18 AM
Just please tell me that no one here is doing the same as members of my city's racist city council, and still calling COVID the Wuhan or Chinese Virus/Flu.
I do not use those terms, but I also certainly do not regard them as racist. In fact, in discussions I always emphasize the truth about the responsibility of the Chinese government and the Wuhan lab, both their actions and inactions, for the horrible consequences we have witnessed the past two years. At the start of the pandemic, news agencies—including CNN, MSNBC, New York Times, and others—referenced the "China virus" or the "Wuhan virus." However, seeing the responsibility and focus placed on the Chinese government (rightfully so) rather than Trump—who used the term "China virus" to highlight the culpability of the Chinese government (not the people)—where Democrats and reporters wanted to place blame, the messaging was changed. Dr. Fauci even called it the "Wuhan virus" (he and the media still occasionally label variants as "the London strain," "the South African strain," or "the Indian strain"). However, like many in the medical establishment who also originally said "Wuhan virus," Fauci realized that pointing out the origins in Wuhan, specifically bringing attention to the work at the lab, would not reflect well on them (him), especially those who authorized and signed off on funding for the virus experiments at the lab.
And having written that, have you thought about the reality of the idiots running around in this country assaulting Asian Americans? You may not regard them as racist but street thugs apparently do. How else would you justify the thousands of attacks on Asians? Geez.
Let me point out a couple of fallacies in your brief comment. First, I am not in the business of justifying attacks of any kind or for any reason, rather I would deplore such acts; nor would I take the bait by expanding on this example of the Red Herring Fallacy. I was simply stating that the accurate use of a term that indicates an origin and thus a government's responsibility does not automatically consign its speaker as a racist. Second, what we see here is an example of the False Dilemma Fallacy: because some "thugs" react in a racist manner, then the city council members (or anyone else) who might use the term "Wuhan virus" must also be regarded as racist. Geez!
Quote from: vu72 on May 19, 2021, 10:25:10 AM
And having written that, have you thought about the reality of the idiots running around in this country assaulting Asian Americans? You may not regard them as racist but street thugs apparently do. How else would you justify the thousands of attacks on Asians? Geez.
You do realize your comment offering a reprimand and suggesting a more sensitive response to terms that might be regarded as racist actually includes a word regarded by many, including news media, as racist and forbidden. Ironic, eh? However, I am going to be consistent and not going to jump to the conclusion that you are racist for using the word "thugs" (Google "thug racist")!
Definition of thug
1see usage paragraph below : a violent or brutish criminal or bully
a brutal thug
That's from Merriam-Webster
The fact is that many of the people following/listening to those who use such terms just aren't the brightest (I know, now I'm being judgmental) So the way to avoid these attacks or interpretations as in any Asian must be responsible, is simply to not use such terms, accurate or not.
Quote from: vu72 on May 19, 2021, 12:16:37 PM
Definition of thug
1see usage paragraph below : a violent or brutish criminal or bully
a brutal thug
That's from Merriam-Webster
The fact is that many of the people following/listening to those who use such terms just aren't the brightest (I know, now I'm being judgmental) So the way to avoid these attacks or interpretations as in any Asian must be responsible, is simply to not use such terms, accurate or not.
Apparently, you are unwilling to follow the advice you dole out to others. From a newspaper article: "In a political world, where words are pregnant with moral meanings, language is not innocent of racist content. Race-code words can trigger deep seated feelings of revulsion and give permission to vent frustration on targets lacking economic, social and political power.
Words like 'criminals,' '
thugs,' 'cockroaches' and 'sewer rats' can serve to whip up anxiety, fear and to manufacture consent."
Quote from: valpopal on May 19, 2021, 10:59:01 AM
Quote from: vu72 on May 19, 2021, 10:25:10 AM
Quote from: valpopal on May 19, 2021, 10:15:26 AM
Quote from: valpotx on May 19, 2021, 02:18:18 AM
Just please tell me that no one here is doing the same as members of my city's racist city council, and still calling COVID the Wuhan or Chinese Virus/Flu.
I do not use those terms, but I also certainly do not regard them as racist. In fact, in discussions I always emphasize the truth about the responsibility of the Chinese government and the Wuhan lab, both their actions and inactions, for the horrible consequences we have witnessed the past two years. At the start of the pandemic, news agencies—including CNN, MSNBC, New York Times, and others—referenced the "China virus" or the "Wuhan virus." However, seeing the responsibility and focus placed on the Chinese government (rightfully so) rather than Trump—who used the term "China virus" to highlight the culpability of the Chinese government (not the people)—where Democrats and reporters wanted to place blame, the messaging was changed. Dr. Fauci even called it the "Wuhan virus" (he and the media still occasionally label variants as "the London strain," "the South African strain," or "the Indian strain"). However, like many in the medical establishment who also originally said "Wuhan virus," Fauci realized that pointing out the origins in Wuhan, specifically bringing attention to the work at the lab, would not reflect well on them (him), especially those who authorized and signed off on funding for the virus experiments at the lab.
And having written that, have you thought about the reality of the idiots running around in this country assaulting Asian Americans? You may not regard them as racist but street thugs apparently do. How else would you justify the thousands of attacks on Asians? Geez.
Let me point out a couple of fallacies in your brief comment. First, I am not in the business of justifying attacks of any kind or for any reason, rather I would deplore such acts; nor would I take the bait by expanding on this example of the Red Herring Fallacy. I was simply stating that the accurate use of a term that indicates an origin and thus a government's responsibility does not automatically consign its speaker as a racist. Second, what we see here is an example of the False Dilemma Fallacy: because some "thugs" react in a racist manner, then the city council members (or anyone else) who might use the term "Wuhan virus" must also be regarded as racist. Geez!
Ok, let me put it this way. One of our council members is fine having the confederate flag in pictures with her included, and a supporter of our current council was recently caught on video during the recent local elections, yelling 'white power' at an Indian American candidate that served in the US armed forces. Does this put into perspective the level of far right BS I am dealing with locally? I am a proud Republican, but I am not a white supremacist. It is fine to reference COVID originating from Wuhan, but calling it the Wuhan Flu or Chinese Flu, is considered racist, regardless of how it was originally referenced. Do we say Africa Ebola or US AIDS?
https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/article250982779.html
Quote from: valpopal on May 19, 2021, 12:32:22 PMWords like 'criminals,' 'thugs,'
I hereby apologize to anyone who has attacked an Asian American for calling you a thug.
Quote from: valpotx on May 19, 2021, 02:55:52 PM
It is fine to reference COVID originating from Wuhan, but calling it the Wuhan Flu or Chinese Flu, is considered racist, regardless of how it was originally referenced. Do we say Africa Ebola or US AIDS?
The CDC calls viruses by their place names. Here are examples from the CDC web page:
Ebola virus (species Zaire ebolavirus)
Sudan virus (species Sudan ebolavirus)
Taï Forest virus (species Taï Forest ebolavirus, formerly Côte d'Ivoire ebolavirus)
Bundibugyo virus (species Bundibugyo ebolavirus)
Reston virus (species Reston ebolavirus)
Bombali virus (species Bombali ebolavirus)
Quote from: valpopal on May 19, 2021, 03:55:28 PM
Quote from: valpotx on May 19, 2021, 02:55:52 PM
It is fine to reference COVID originating from Wuhan, but calling it the Wuhan Flu or Chinese Flu, is considered racist, regardless of how it was originally referenced. Do we say Africa Ebola or US AIDS?
The CDC calls viruses by their place names. Here are examples from the CDC web page:
Ebola virus (species Zaire ebolavirus)
Sudan virus (species Sudan ebolavirus)
Taï Forest virus (species Taï Forest ebolavirus, formerly Côte d'Ivoire ebolavirus)
Bundibugyo virus (species Bundibugyo ebolavirus)
Reston virus (species Reston ebolavirus)
Bombali virus (species Bombali ebolavirus)
• Lyme Disease originated in Lyme, Connecticut.
• 3 guesses where Hong Kong flu originated.
• I think the Spanish flu started in Spain. (I've been dreaming of sucker punching a Spaniard ever since.
• MERS stands for Middle East Respiratory Syndrome. Don't tell anyone, but it originated in Saudi Arabia.
• Ebola began in the Ebola River region of the Congo.
• The Hendra virus, which I never heard of, was named after the Brisbane suburb of Hendra. I hate those people now, whoever they are.
• And, for good measure, a few more places and people to hate: Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, West Nile Virus, Ross River Fever, Norovirus (named after its city of origin Norwalk, Ohio), Japanese Encephalitis, and, as all Boomers remember all too well, German Measles.
There is no evidence that the Spanish Flu originated in Spain. There are a variety of theories, the main one being that it originated in and around U.S. military based in Kansas.
Quote from: wh on May 19, 2021, 08:09:56 PM
Quote from: valpopal on May 19, 2021, 03:55:28 PM
Quote from: valpotx on May 19, 2021, 02:55:52 PM
It is fine to reference COVID originating from Wuhan, but calling it the Wuhan Flu or Chinese Flu, is considered racist, regardless of how it was originally referenced. Do we say Africa Ebola or US AIDS?
The CDC calls viruses by their place names. Here are examples from the CDC web page:
Ebola virus (species Zaire ebolavirus)
Sudan virus (species Sudan ebolavirus)
Taï Forest virus (species Taï Forest ebolavirus, formerly Côte d'Ivoire ebolavirus)
Bundibugyo virus (species Bundibugyo ebolavirus)
Reston virus (species Reston ebolavirus)
Bombali virus (species Bombali ebolavirus)
• Lyme Disease originated in Lyme, Connecticut.
• 3 guesses where Hong Kong flu originated.
• I think the Spanish flu started in Spain. (I've been dreaming of sucker punching a Spaniard ever since.
• MERS stands for Middle East Respiratory Syndrome. Don't tell anyone, but it originated in Saudi Arabia.
• Ebola began in the Ebola River region of the Congo.
• The Hendra virus, which I never heard of, was named after the Brisbane suburb of Hendra. I hate those people now, whoever they are.
• And, for good measure, a few more places and people to hate: Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, West Nile Virus, Ross River Fever, Norovirus (named after its city of origin Norwalk, Ohio), Japanese Encephalitis, and, as all Boomers remember all too well, German Measles.
Most of the examples provided are from several decades back, and in the case of Spanish Flu, around 100 years back. Most of the folks saying 'Chinese Flu' or 'Wuhan Flu,' very well know that they are not just trying to imply that is fitting into proper nomenclature of outbreak-naming. Come on now, you are smarter than this. In my community, the same people yelling 'white power,' posing with confederate flags, despairing CRT in our schools (which is not factual), etc, are the same people saying Chinese Flu.
This is just verbal gymnastics. COVID is and always will be associated with Wuhan, China, irrespective of virus titles. The only question is whether it was manufactured in a test tube in the Wuhan lab or coincidentally began organically at a live market down the street. If it's proven to be intentional, it will change the course of history. Time will tell.
Quote from: wh on May 20, 2021, 09:49:11 AM
This is just verbal gymnastics. COVID is and always will be associated with Wuhan, China, irrespective of virus titles. The only question is whether it was manufactured in a test tube in the Wuhan lab or coincidentally began organically at a live market down the street. If it's proven to be intentional, it will change the course of history. Time will tell.
This is true. Trying to deflect by stating the previous viruses were named far in the past is disingenuous. Just last week NBC reported from the CDC about "the New York variant," "the Brazilian variant," "the South African variant," "the Indian variant," "the U.K. variant," and others. Anyone who doesn't realize the refusal to use "Wuhan virus" or "Chinese virus" has to do with medical politics and cooperation with the Chinese government is being naive. If Wuhan is named, then the direct link to the Wuhan Institute of Virology is obvious, and that is where coronavirus experiments were taking place that intentionally enhanced the deadly aspects of SARS2. These experiments were approved and funded by U.S. medical individuals and organizations, including Dr. Fauci and the EchoHealth Alliance of New York, headed by Peter Daszak. As Nicholas Wade writes in his stellar reporting:
"Virologists like Daszak had much at stake in the assigning of blame for the pandemic. For 20 years, mostly beneath the public's attention, they had been playing a dangerous game. In their laboratories they routinely created viruses more dangerous than those that exist in nature. They argued that they could do so safely, and that by getting ahead of nature they could predict and prevent natural 'spillovers,' the cross-over of viruses from an animal host to people. If SARS2 had indeed escaped from such a laboratory experiment, a savage blowback could be expected, and the storm of public indignation would affect virologists everywhere, not just in China. "It would shatter the scientific edifice top to bottom," an MIT Technology Review editor, Antonio Regalado, said in March 2020."
Wade further reports:
"...either the director of the NIAID, Anthony Fauci, or the director of the NIH, Francis Collins, or maybe both, would have invoked the exemption in order to keep the money flowing to Shi's gain-of-function research, and later to avoid notifying the federal reporting system of her research.
"Unfortunately, the NIAID Director and the NIH Director exploited this loophole to issue exemptions to projects subject to the Pause –preposterously asserting the exempted research was 'urgently necessary to protect public health or national security'—thereby nullifying the Pause," Dr. Richard Ebright said in an interview with Independent Science News.
The objections to the Wuhan Virus and China Virus labels are merely attempts to cover up culpability of the medical community in cooperation with China for a worldwide pandemic that is now projected to kill 10,000,000 people by the end of this year. Perhaps this could be considered the most serious crime since the Holocaust. Nicholas Wade places the blame at four groups: 1) Chinese virologists, 2) Chinese government authorities, 3) The worldwide community of virologists who aided and have covered up, 4) The US individuals and agencies that funded the Wuhan Institute of Virology. Avoiding the terms Wuhan Virus and China Virus only serves to abet the deceit.
https://thebulletin.org/2021/05/the-origin-of-covid-did-people-or-nature-open-pandoras-box-at-wuhan/ (https://thebulletin.org/2021/05/the-origin-of-covid-did-people-or-nature-open-pandoras-box-at-wuhan/)
Quote from: valpopal on May 20, 2021, 10:22:39 AMThe objections to the Wuhan Virus and China Virus labels are merely attempts to cover up culpability of the medical community in cooperation with China
Or perhaps to stop the over 3000 attacks on Asian Americans. Give it a rest.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/asian-american-hate-crimes-assaults/
Quote from: vu72 on May 20, 2021, 10:38:16 AM
Quote from: valpopal on May 20, 2021, 10:22:39 AMThe objections to the Wuhan Virus and China Virus labels are merely attempts to cover up culpability of the medical community in cooperation with China
Or perhaps to stop the over 3000 attacks on Asian Americans. Give it a rest.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/asian-american-hate-crimes-assaults/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/asian-american-hate-crimes-assaults/)
There were not 3,000 "attacks." Your own source reports that figure has to do with "incidents," which has a very broad definition. According to Statista and California State University, the number of "reported" (some will be seen as false reports and some others charged will likely be found innocent) anti-Asian crimes across the country in 2020 was 122, the largest number occurring in New York City, and many arose during the times of the Black Lives Matter riots not because the term "Wuhan virus" was used.
Quote from: valpopal on May 20, 2021, 11:08:41 AM
Quote from: vu72 on May 20, 2021, 10:38:16 AM
Quote from: valpopal on May 20, 2021, 10:22:39 AMThe objections to the Wuhan Virus and China Virus labels are merely attempts to cover up culpability of the medical community in cooperation with China
Or perhaps to stop the over 3000 attacks on Asian Americans. Give it a rest.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/asian-american-hate-crimes-assaults/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/asian-american-hate-crimes-assaults/)
There were not 3,000 "attacks." Your own source reports that figure has to do with "incidents," which has a very broad definition. According to Statista and California State University, the number of anti-Asian crimes across the country in 2020 was 122, the largest number occurring in New York City, and many arose during the times of the Black Lives Matter riots not because the term "Wuhan virus" was used.
Yeah, I was hoping we could avoid bring this to light, but when people keep distorting the truth, it becomes unavoidable. Over 90% of these "incidents" occurred in large urban centers and perpetrated by individuals who typically vote Democrat in overwhelming numbers. This group has a long-standing, deep seated frustration with Asians coming to America and "stealing" jobs from underserved minorities. When something happens that reinforces their disdain, frustration can very quickly lead to frustration aggression. And, with that, I would suggest we move on.
Quote from: valpopal on May 20, 2021, 10:22:39 AM
Quote from: wh on May 20, 2021, 09:49:11 AM
This is just verbal gymnastics. COVID is and always will be associated with Wuhan, China, irrespective of virus titles. The only question is whether it was manufactured in a test tube in the Wuhan lab or coincidentally began organically at a live market down the street. If it's proven to be intentional, it will change the course of history. Time will tell.
This is true. Trying to deflect by stating the previous viruses were named far in the past is disingenuous. Just last week NBC reported from the CDC about "the New York variant," "the Brazilian variant," "the South African variant," "the Indian variant," "the U.K. variant," and others. Anyone who doesn't realize the refusal to use "Wuhan virus" or "Chinese virus" has to do with medical politics and cooperation with the Chinese government is being naive. If Wuhan is named, then the direct link to the Wuhan Institute of Virology is obvious, and that is where coronavirus experiments were taking place that intentionally enhanced the deadly aspects of SARS2. These experiments were approved and funded by U.S. medical individuals and organizations, including Dr. Fauci and the EchoHealth Alliance of New York, headed by Peter Daszak. As Nicholas Wade writes in his stellar reporting:
"Virologists like Daszak had much at stake in the assigning of blame for the pandemic. For 20 years, mostly beneath the public's attention, they had been playing a dangerous game. In their laboratories they routinely created viruses more dangerous than those that exist in nature. They argued that they could do so safely, and that by getting ahead of nature they could predict and prevent natural 'spillovers,' the cross-over of viruses from an animal host to people. If SARS2 had indeed escaped from such a laboratory experiment, a savage blowback could be expected, and the storm of public indignation would affect virologists everywhere, not just in China. "It would shatter the scientific edifice top to bottom," an MIT Technology Review editor, Antonio Regalado, said in March 2020."
Wade further reports:
"...either the director of the NIAID, Anthony Fauci, or the director of the NIH, Francis Collins, or maybe both, would have invoked the exemption in order to keep the money flowing to Shi's gain-of-function research, and later to avoid notifying the federal reporting system of her research.
"Unfortunately, the NIAID Director and the NIH Director exploited this loophole to issue exemptions to projects subject to the Pause –preposterously asserting the exempted research was 'urgently necessary to protect public health or national security'—thereby nullifying the Pause," Dr. Richard Ebright said in an interview with Independent Science News.
The objections to the Wuhan Virus and China Virus labels are merely attempts to cover up culpability of the medical community in cooperation with China for a worldwide pandemic that is now projected to kill 10,000,000 people by the end of this year. Perhaps this could be considered the most serious crime since the Holocaust. Nicholas Wade places the blame at four groups: 1) Chinese virologists, 2) Chinese government authorities, 3) The worldwide community of virologists who aided and have covered up, 4) The US individuals and agencies that funded the Wuhan Institute of Virology. Avoiding the terms Wuhan Virus and China Virus only serves to abet the deceit.
https://thebulletin.org/2021/05/the-origin-of-covid-did-people-or-nature-open-pandoras-box-at-wuhan/ (https://thebulletin.org/2021/05/the-origin-of-covid-did-people-or-nature-open-pandoras-box-at-wuhan/)
Not disingenuous at all. I genuinely believe such a thing. You completely gloss over the fact that the majority of people who still say 'the Chinese virus' or 'the Wuhan flu,' are people that have views similar to what I mentioned in my comment. In my community, the people purposely saying Wuhan Flu at this point in time, are the same folks yelling 'white power' at candidates of a minority persuasion, among other despicable things. Like a lot of other people, I initially referred to it as Wuhan Flu, but then saw how this community of folks is using it to imply hatred towards China and Asian Americans, and realized how wrong it was/is.
Quote from: valpotx on May 20, 2021, 02:30:21 PM
I initially referred to it as Wuhan Flu, but then saw how this community of folks is using it to imply hatred towards China and Asian Americans, and realized how wrong it was/is.
Just curious, weren't you the one who once said the following: "I do not support the over sensationalism that this 'woke' culture is giving to words that really have no contentious meaning. Just because one hate group has been utilizing a word, doesn't mean that we should immediately react, and let them own that word." ;)
Can we say that existing evidence indicates that the COVID-19 virus originated in China and that anyone who harasses Asian-Americans (or Asians in general) is repugnant and should be held accountable for such behavior?
Quote from: valpopal on May 20, 2021, 02:58:48 PM
Quote from: valpotx on May 20, 2021, 02:30:21 PM
I initially referred to it as Wuhan Flu, but then saw how this community of folks is using it to imply hatred towards China and Asian Americans, and realized how wrong it was/is.
Just curious, weren't you the one who once said the following: "I do not support the over sensationalism that this 'woke' culture is giving to words that really have no contentious meaning. Just because one hate group has been utilizing a word, doesn't mean that we should immediately react, and let them own that word." ;)
Yes, but my view doesn't translate over to racism. Racism is racism. A Crusader can come from all over the world, and is not tied to any specific culture or ethnicity, though it obviously probably leaned white male. Crusaders came from Bulgaria, Hungary, etc, which do include other races.
Quote from: vu84v2 on May 20, 2021, 03:03:53 PM
Can we say that existing evidence indicates that the COVID-19 virus originated in China and that anyone who harasses Asian-Americans (or Asians in general) is repugnant and should be held accountable for such behavior?
Are you kidding with this ridiculous face-saving question? Since 90% of attacks on Chinese people are perpetrated by a single minority group, you might get a different answer if you asked them the same question. Personally, I don't know a soul that has expressed anything negative about anyone Chinese anywhere. Even if it's found that the virus was manufactured in a test tube and used as a biological weapon by the CCP, everyone with a minimum of one brain cell knows that the biggest victims of the CCP's communist form of government are the Chinese people themselves. As to Tex's repeating the same rhetorical account of someone he knows in po-dunk Texas who carries a confederate flag and hates Chinese people is evidence of exactly nothing. In fact, it's far worse than nothing because it stereotypes a whole group of people based on the actions of some born fool.
Quote from: valpotx on May 20, 2021, 04:18:59 PM
Quote from: valpopal on May 20, 2021, 02:58:48 PM
Quote from: valpotx on May 20, 2021, 02:30:21 PM
I initially referred to it as Wuhan Flu, but then saw how this community of folks is using it to imply hatred towards China and Asian Americans, and realized how wrong it was/is.
Just curious, weren't you the one who once said the following: "I do not support the over sensationalism that this 'woke' culture is giving to words that really have no contentious meaning. Just because one hate group has been utilizing a word, doesn't mean that we should immediately react, and let them own that word." ;)
Yes, but my view doesn't translate over to racism. Racism is racism. A Crusader can come from all over the world, and is not tied to any specific culture or ethnicity, though it obviously probably leaned white male. Crusaders came from Bulgaria, Hungary, etc, which do include other races.
Since the "hate group" in your first comment includes the most notorious racist KKK, which named their official newspaper The Crusader, I can only read the attempted "racism" rationalization in your second comment as a textbook definition of "distinction without a difference." ::)
Quote from: wh on May 20, 2021, 05:25:36 PMSince 90% of attacks on Chinese people
Except, wh, it isn't just Chinese people. Anyone from Asia that resembles a Chinese person has been subject to these attacks. And as for valpopal's assertion that in reality the number of attacks was actually 122, the ignorance of such a statement says all I need to hear. I'm done wasting my time on this discussion.
Quote from: vu72 on May 20, 2021, 07:26:40 PM
as for valpopal's assertion that in reality the number of attacks was actually 122, the ignorance of such a statement says all I need to hear. I'm done wasting my time on this discussion.
My 122 number for reported anti-Asian hate crimes (New York City led the nation with 28 reports) was quoted from the Study of Hate and Extremism at California State University, San Bernardino, and broadcast by NBC News. The data revealed that some large cities, such as San Diego and Cincinnati, only experienced one anti-Asian crime report each. Although even one hate crime is deplorable, it is interesting to note for comparison that about 450 people are struck by lightning in the US each year (50 fatal). Anyway, I apologize for citing such sources of "ignorance." Obviously, these sources must not be as legitimate as your false report of "3,000 attacks" that was not even accurate according to the very article you linked.
Quote from: wh on May 20, 2021, 05:25:36 PM
Quote from: vu84v2 on May 20, 2021, 03:03:53 PM
Can we say that existing evidence indicates that the COVID-19 virus originated in China and that anyone who harasses Asian-Americans (or Asians in general) is repugnant and should be held accountable for such behavior?
Are you kidding with this ridiculous face-saving question? Since 90% of attacks on Chinese people are perpetrated by a single minority group, you might get a different answer if you asked them the same question. Personally, I don't know a soul that has expressed anything negative about anyone Chinese anywhere. Even if it's found that the virus was manufactured in a test tube and used as a biological weapon by the CCP, everyone with a minimum of one brain cell knows that the biggest victims of the CCP's communist form of government are the Chinese people themselves. As to Tex's repeating the same rhetorical account of someone he knows in po-dunk Texas who carries a confederate flag and hates Chinese people is evidence of exactly nothing. In fact, it's far worse than nothing because it stereotypes a whole group of people based on the actions of some born fool.
Haha, you should probably Google Colleyville and Southlake household income. Attaching one data point of reference where you can see how 'podunk' my area is lol.
https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/slideshow/Richest-Cities-in-Texas-2020-199207.php
Found another: https://datausa.io/profile/geo/colleyville-tx#:~:text=Median%20household%20income%20in%20Colleyville%2C%20TX%20is%20%24175%2C369.
Quote from: valpotx on May 20, 2021, 08:30:45 PM
Quote from: wh on May 20, 2021, 05:25:36 PM
Quote from: vu84v2 on May 20, 2021, 03:03:53 PM
Can we say that existing evidence indicates that the COVID-19 virus originated in China and that anyone who harasses Asian-Americans (or Asians in general) is repugnant and should be held accountable for such behavior?
Are you kidding with this ridiculous face-saving question? Since 90% of attacks on Chinese people are perpetrated by a single minority group, you might get a different answer if you asked them the same question. Personally, I don't know a soul that has expressed anything negative about anyone Chinese anywhere. Even if it's found that the virus was manufactured in a test tube and used as a biological weapon by the CCP, everyone with a minimum of one brain cell knows that the biggest victims of the CCP's communist form of government are the Chinese people themselves. As to Tex's repeating the same rhetorical account of someone he knows in po-dunk Texas who carries a confederate flag and hates Chinese people is evidence of exactly nothing. In fact, it's far worse than nothing because it stereotypes a whole group of people based on the actions of some born fool.
Haha, you should probably Google Colleyville and Southlake household income. Attaching one data point of reference where you can see how 'podunk' my area is lol.
https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/slideshow/Richest-Cities-in-Texas-2020-199207.php
Found another: https://datausa.io/profile/geo/colleyville-tx#:~:text=Median%20household%20income%20in%20Colleyville%2C%20TX%20is%20%24175%2C369.
Whoops, very poor choice of words. I didn't mean that the way it came out. I'm sure you live in a very nice area. My apologies.
Quote from: vu72 on May 20, 2021, 07:26:40 PM
Quote from: wh on May 20, 2021, 05:25:36 PMSince 90% of attacks on Chinese people
Except, wh, it isn't just Chinese people. Anyone from Asia that resembles a Chinese person has been subject to these attacks. And as for valpopal's assertion that in reality the number of attacks was actually 122, the ignorance of such a statement says all I need to hear. I'm done wasting my time on this discussion.
Yeah, this topic has worn me out, as well. Let's call it a draw and get our minds refocused on the great recruits and transfers we have to look forward to.
Quote from: wh on May 20, 2021, 05:25:36 PM
Quote from: vu84v2 on May 20, 2021, 03:03:53 PM
Can we say that existing evidence indicates that the COVID-19 virus originated in China and that anyone who harasses Asian-Americans (or Asians in general) is repugnant and should be held accountable for such behavior?
Are you kidding with this ridiculous face-saving question? Since 90% of attacks on Chinese people are perpetrated by a single minority group, you might get a different answer if you asked them the same question. Personally, I don't know a soul that has expressed anything negative about anyone Chinese anywhere. Even if it's found that the virus was manufactured in a test tube and used as a biological weapon by the CCP, everyone with a minimum of one brain cell knows that the biggest victims of the CCP's communist form of government are the Chinese people themselves. As to Tex's repeating the same rhetorical account of someone he knows in po-dunk Texas who carries a confederate flag and hates Chinese people is evidence of exactly nothing. In fact, it's far worse than nothing because it stereotypes a whole group of people based on the actions of some born fool.
For what it is worth, I was not condoning how the Chinese government has approached investigating the cause of the virus. It seems that they are completely focused on saving face for the Chinese government instead of getting to the truth. And I agree that the Chinese people are the greatest victims of the CCP...and so do most of my Chinese friends and colleagues.
Indiana University cannot require proof of COVID-19 vaccination, attorney general says
https://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/education/indiana-university-cannot-require-proof-of-covid-19-vaccination-attorney-general-says/article_e51c9ae4-e56c-544c-9089-eccd689be338.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1
Quote from: wh on May 26, 2021, 09:32:53 PM
Indiana University cannot require proof of COVID-19 vaccination, attorney general says
https://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/education/indiana-university-cannot-require-proof-of-covid-19-vaccination-attorney-general-says/article_e51c9ae4-e56c-544c-9089-eccd689be338.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1
So stupid. This is nothing new. Kids have been having to show vaccination cards to go to school since they were born. The group that is so hellbent on documentation for voting or living in the country suddenly wants no documentation at all of health matters. The hypocrisy is a little too on the nose for me.
Quote from: Pgmado on May 27, 2021, 06:04:58 PM
Quote from: wh on May 26, 2021, 09:32:53 PM
Indiana University cannot require proof of COVID-19 vaccination, attorney general says
https://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/education/indiana-university-cannot-require-proof-of-covid-19-vaccination-attorney-general-says/article_e51c9ae4-e56c-544c-9089-eccd689be338.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1 (https://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/education/indiana-university-cannot-require-proof-of-covid-19-vaccination-attorney-general-says/article_e51c9ae4-e56c-544c-9089-eccd689be338.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1)
So stupid. This is nothing new. Kids have been having to show vaccination cards to go to school since they were born. The group that is so hellbent on documentation for voting or living in the country suddenly wants no documentation at all of health matters. The hypocrisy is a little too on the nose for me.
As is usually the case, such sweeping generalizations are inaccurate and misleading. The state attorney general is explaining the details of a law that is specific in its composition. The bipartisan law was approved 88-10 in the House and 48-1 in the Senate; therefore, I am left wondering what "group" is being referenced and who is being "hypocritical." First, the Covid-19 vaccination is not in the same category as those vaccinations that have been required for attending school in the past. This one is still regarded by the Food and Drug administration as "for use on an emergency basis," which is an experimental category. Second, "Rokita noted the law does not prevent IU from requiring its students and employees be vaccinated against COVID-19 or other contagious diseases; it only prevents the university from mandating written or electronic evidence of a person's COVID-19 vaccination status," which is prohibited by law. Another state university, Purdue is within the law by permitting even vaccinated "students to not provide the university with their immunization status if they are willing to be tested for COVID-19." This is the same situation students or faculty with medical or religious exemptions likely would be following at any university, public or private, including Valparaiso.
First, does anyone really think that states will change their position once vaccines have regular FDA approval? They'll just come up with a different reason to prevent requiring vaccines.
Second, the documentation law makes no sense. A university requires students to have other vaccines and provide evidence - so why not the COIVD-19 vaccine (especially once it has FDA approval)? Also, if written or electronic evidence cannot be required - isn't that effectively preventing any sort of vaccine requirement policy (unless you are going to require every student to be blood tested)?
Lastly, Purdue's alternative seems quite reasonable - but do they get away with this because their President is a former Republican governor? If the President of Purdue were a former Democratic governor and he instituted the same policy, I could see the governor and state legislature trying to prevent the policy from being implemented.
Quote from: vu84v2 on May 28, 2021, 07:44:54 AM
First, does anyone really think that states will change their position once vaccines have regular FDA approval? They'll just come up with a different reason to prevent requiring vaccines.
Second, the documentation law makes no sense. A university requires students to have other vaccines and provide evidence - so why not the COIVD-19 vaccine (especially once it has FDA approval)? Also, if written or electronic evidence cannot be required - isn't that effectively preventing any sort of vaccine requirement policy (unless you are going to require every student to be blood tested)?
Lastly, Purdue's alternative seems quite reasonable - but do they get away with this because their President is a former Republican governor? If the President of Purdue were a former Democratic governor and he instituted the same policy, I could see the governor and state legislature trying to prevent the policy from being implemented.
As I suggested in my last post, I don't understand the need to politicize and speculate about a bill that was passed by the Indiana Senate 48-1. The only dissenting voter was a Republican, which indicates the law was fully supported by Democrats. Shouldn't we celebrate a bipartisan act of unity that reflects the will of the people in the state?
Looks very likely that the Tokyo Olympics will either be with no fans or postponed again. How can their fully vaccinated rate (less than 3%) be so far behind when so much has been invested and is now at risk?
Japan—With Opposition To Olympics Rising—Has Only A 2% Covid Vaccination Rate. Here's Why
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/carlieporterfield/2021/05/12/japan-with-opposition-to-olympics-rising-has-only-a-2-covid-vaccination-rate-heres-why/amp/
China confirms first human case of H10N3 bird flu: report
What is it with China and disease?
https://www.foxnews.com/world/china-announces-first-human-case-of-h10n3-bird-flu
Never mind. A 5-minute Google search told me more than I wanted to know. Apparently, personal hygiene, including bathing, hand washing, and soap, is not high on the list in utopia.
Quote from: valpopal on May 27, 2021, 08:26:01 PM
Quote from: Pgmado on May 27, 2021, 06:04:58 PM
Quote from: wh on May 26, 2021, 09:32:53 PM
Indiana University cannot require proof of COVID-19 vaccination, attorney general says
https://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/education/indiana-university-cannot-require-proof-of-covid-19-vaccination-attorney-general-says/article_e51c9ae4-e56c-544c-9089-eccd689be338.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1 (https://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/education/indiana-university-cannot-require-proof-of-covid-19-vaccination-attorney-general-says/article_e51c9ae4-e56c-544c-9089-eccd689be338.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1)
So stupid. This is nothing new. Kids have been having to show vaccination cards to go to school since they were born. The group that is so hellbent on documentation for voting or living in the country suddenly wants no documentation at all of health matters. The hypocrisy is a little too on the nose for me.
As is usually the case, such sweeping generalizations are inaccurate and misleading. The state attorney general is explaining the details of a law that is specific in its composition. The bipartisan law was approved 88-10 in the House and 48-1 in the Senate; therefore, I am left wondering what "group" is being referenced and who is being "hypocritical." First, the Covid-19 vaccination is not in the same category as those vaccinations that have been required for attending school in the past. This one is still regarded by the Food and Drug administration as "for use on an emergency basis," which is an experimental category. Second, "Rokita noted the law does not prevent IU from requiring its students and employees be vaccinated against COVID-19 or other contagious diseases; it only prevents the university from mandating written or electronic evidence of a person's COVID-19 vaccination status," which is prohibited by law. Another state university, Purdue is within the law by permitting even vaccinated "students to not provide the university with their immunization status if they are willing to be tested for COVID-19." This is the same situation students or faculty with medical or religious exemptions likely would be following at any university, public or private, including Valparaiso.
Just an update: As I believed would happen, IU has announced that it agrees to follow the state law and will set its requirements in a similar fashion as Purdue. Students and faculty are required to be vaccinated, but the school will "adopt adjustments to the vaccine verification and exemption process," eliminating the previous strict mandate for documented proof. Additionally, IU now "will allow individuals to request an exemption from the COVID-19 vaccine requirement based on a religious objection, a documented allergy, or other specific medical issue."
Over 500 schools are requiring various groups to get vaccinated. It's a fluid situation that will change over the summer.
https://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2021/06/over-500-us-colleges-will-require-students-andor-facultystaff-to-be-vaccinated-for-the-fall-semester.html