While I believe athletes have the right to control and benefit from their name, image, and likeness, I can see that this will be damaging to athletics programs outside big conferences or not located in large urban areas, both of which permit greater opportunities for earnings. As I wrote a couple months ago: "If you thought there is a gap between big conferences and mid-major conferences now, you haven't seen anything yet. Even within smaller conferences like the Missouri Valley, the better players with earning potential will gravitate to schools that are in commercial or media centers. Hello, Loyola! Schools or conferences will not have to facilitate endorsements; instead, the universities with higher earning athletes will be well known on social media and elsewhere, and recruited players or transfers will be aware of the potential. In addition, the ways of making money go far beyond endorsements. Athletes could create their own You Tube channels the way some 'influencers' earn millions of dollars each year. This will benefit top-level players financially, but it also will help certain athletics programs while harming other athletics programs, including Valpo."
Already on Twitter, my predictions are beginning to prove true. Paul has highlighted two programs that will benefit. Loyola's team is meeting with a "brand marketing specialist later today" that will show their players how to take advantage of the Chicago market, and Oklahoma has added a prominent web page celebrating its marketing skills for athletes: https://www.only1oklahoma.com/nil.html (https://www.only1oklahoma.com/nil.html)
Additionally, other programs—especially at private schools—are concerned about what associations or images the athletes might promote that could counter university standards and values. Paul points out BYU as an example. The new NIL rules will hurt places like Valpo (smaller, more rural, private, and religious) in recruiting top high school players, and may be more harmful when trying to attract transfers who have established reputations and social media followings.
This comment by Alec Peters in Paul's Times article is also revealing: ""Coming out of high school, I didn't know that I wanted to be a professional basketball player. I know that I loved playing basketball and I wanted to play right away wherever I went and Valpo gave me that opportunity. If I went to a bigger school, I knew I would've had to redshirt and then maybe wouldn't have played right away, but if I knew that I could go there and I was going to make $20,000 (because of NIL), maybe that changes things. Coming out of high school, maybe I look at things a little differently then."
Here's some MVC thoughts on NIL's and interviews with the MVC coaches.
Way to go Paul Oren on your contributions.
The Valpo interview with Matt starts at the 22:40 mark.
https://twitter.com/ValleyHoops/status/1410605453868888067
Quote from: valpopal on July 01, 2021, 12:36:11 PM
While I believe athletes have the right to control and benefit from their name, image, and likeness, I can see that this will be damaging to athletics programs outside big conferences or not located in large urban areas, both of which permit greater opportunities for earnings. As I wrote a couple months ago: "If you thought there is a gap between big conferences and mid-major conferences now, you haven't seen anything yet. Even within smaller conferences like the Missouri Valley, the better players with earning potential will gravitate to schools that are in commercial or media centers. Hello, Loyola! Schools or conferences will not have to facilitate endorsements; instead, the universities with higher earning athletes will be well known on social media and elsewhere, and recruited players or transfers will be aware of the potential. In addition, the ways of making money go far beyond endorsements. Athletes could create their own You Tube channels the way some 'influencers' earn millions of dollars each year. This will benefit top-level players financially, but it also will help certain athletics programs while harming other athletics programs, including Valpo."
Already on Twitter, my predictions are beginning to prove true. Paul has highlighted two programs that will benefit. Loyola's team is meeting with a "brand marketing specialist later today" that will show their players how to take advantage of the Chicago market, and Oklahoma has added a prominent web page celebrating its marketing skills for athletes: https://www.only1oklahoma.com/nil.html (https://www.only1oklahoma.com/nil.html)
Additionally, other programs—especially at private schools—are concerned about what associations or images the athletes might promote that could counter university standards and values. Paul points out BYU as an example. The new NIL rules will hurt places like Valpo (smaller, more rural, private, and religious) in recruiting top high school players, and may be more harmful when trying to attract transfers who have established reputations and social media followings.
This comment by Alec Peters in Paul's Times article is also revealing: ""Coming out of high school, I didn't know that I wanted to be a professional basketball player. I know that I loved playing basketball and I wanted to play right away wherever I went and Valpo gave me that opportunity. If I went to a bigger school, I knew I would've had to redshirt and then maybe wouldn't have played right away, but if I knew that I could go there and I was going to make $20,000 (because of NIL), maybe that changes things. Coming out of high school, maybe I look at things a little differently then."
A further stipulation right now is that the NCAA NIL rule states:
—Individuals can engage in NIL activities that are consistent with the law of the state where the school is located. Colleges and universities may be a resource for state law questions.
—College athletes who attend a school in a state without an NIL law can engage in this type of activity without violating NCAA rules related to name, image and likeness.
As far as Valparaiso University is concerned, Indiana is a state that does not have an NIL law nor is there currently a need or a plan to pass one; therefore, VU athletes are free to pursue partnerships for paid personal activities. However, I can see where it would be advantageous for Valpo to craft a preemptive statement about what would or would not be acceptable paid pursuits for its athletes. In fact, I am surprised guidelines were not developed by the university in anticipation of this new NCAA rule; however, Valparaiso University does not have a reputation for being proactive and unfortunately often tends to be reactive.
Here is a related excerpt from Paul's
Times article:
"We don't have a formal policy in place yet," Valparaiso athletic director Mark LaBarbera said. "At the Missouri Valley Conference meetings (in June), the presidents decided they would put together a task force that would have a model policy for everyone to see. We're going to wait for that. We know there is a sense of urgency and we're hoping to have something in the next two to three weeks."
A breakdown of status for state NIL laws:
https://businessofcollegesports.com/tracker-name-image-and-likeness-legislation-by-state/ (https://businessofcollegesports.com/tracker-name-image-and-likeness-legislation-by-state/)
College sports will never be the same. Add this on top of the transfer rule and it's done.
Basically free agency and get paid.
I waffle back and forth if NIL is good.
Should players get paid? I think yes.
But recruiting at a mid major was already tough and the NIL will put people out of business.
Valpo doesn't sell out games, the locals don't care, and it's small# wise. NIL isn't working out in Valpos favor.
We've got a few more stories coming out on this. One of them will be concerning Grace White on Saturday. Even before I interviewed her, I figured she was absolutely the athlete best positioned to make money off NIL. She won't make anything in Valpo, but she's a celebrity back home. She's had to turn down speaking engagements and working with companies on her reservation. She can do that now. She's going to make some money.
Interesting question, with this whole NIL initiative. Valpo traditionally puts top players on promotional material, whether via schedule printouts or social media. Are our athletes now going to require compensation for such a thing, or is that covered in anything they sign to receive a scholarship nowadays?
The tax man cometh. No way the US Congress and state tax law makers will forget to get their fair share of the value of the NIL from students.
Quote from: Just Sayin on July 02, 2021, 05:18:55 AM
The tax man cometh. No way the US Congress and state tax law makers will forget to get their fair share of the value of the NIL from students.
I don't understand this point. Any compensation for services rendered by any of us are taxable as ordinary income.
Quote from: vu72 on July 02, 2021, 06:40:37 AM
Quote from: Just Sayin on July 02, 2021, 05:18:55 AM
The tax man cometh. No way the US Congress and state tax law makers will forget to get their fair share of the value of the NIL from students.
I don't understand this point. Any compensation for services rendered by any of us are taxable as ordinary income.
An interesting question related to this is whether athletic scholarships will be considered taxable income since other compensation for athletes definitely will.
I don't see how scholarships will be effected at all if they haven't been considered taxable income at this point. This is now allowing players to create their own businesses and/or enter partnership contracts without outside agencies or with themselves outside of their expectations/roles as student athletes which is something that other people have always been allowed to do and will be taxed the same way those types of situations have always been taxed.
This hasn't changed the tax code of the structure of anything, it's just no longer barring them from something others have always had access too.
As a grad student I attended a university that, in addition to a good athletics department with D-1 basketball and football, had a premier dance department. The university is located in a city with one of the best ballet theaters in the country. Many of the dance students who were on scholarship also performed regularly as part of the ballet troupe and received (taxable) payment that did not impact their (non-taxable) scholarships. A few also performed in a famous Hollywood movie that was filmed on location nearby. Similarly, students with music scholarships performed in the orchestra or at other venues in the city. In fact, the availability of such added income sources helped attract students to the performance programs at the university over going to some other school. I see the NIL creating a similar situation for athletes: players having an ability to earn extra money that does not influence their scholarships, plus choosing a school partly based upon opportunities for supplemental income.
Wow. It's a brave new self-promoting me-centered new world and I think I will always be nostalgic for a simpler day when players intended to play for 4 years.
Just 10-15 years ago people didn't have smart phones that now put the whole world literally in the "palm of your hand." Digital media and cell phones don't observe state law and boundaries so I don't think the state can ever hold off the national trends. Purdue, IU, and Notre Dame will find a need to battle for their piece of the national spotlight against the heavy artillery of the Power 5 athletes. Their influence in the state legislature is immense.
It does appear that the rich will get richer. Again, that's sad in my book. But c'est la vie.
Schools should do away with scholarships. This is no longer amateur sports.
What is stopping a booster from paying a freshman 50k for 1 autograph or for a summer camp. You can go on and on how to pay athletes to come to your school.
If I was a university I would have my trademark lawyers all over how the universities name is used online, in social media, pictures, etc.
If an athlete chooses a sponsor from a business you do not agree with (weed, booze, clubs, etc) it is a reflection on your university.
Yes, you're right. Wow.
Universities and wild west advertising copyright of university brands in the hands of 18-23 year-olds (and greedy self-appointed "friends/agents") is really not a realistic match.
Those $100 handshakes just came out of the shadows and will bid off the charts in SEC country, Texas. And anywhere else where bragging rights are a big part of your identity. Eric Dickerson could have wrangled much more than a new sports car from SMU.
Got a message from a friend who is part owner of a small independent contemporary sportswear line of clothes. He reported receiving dozens of e-mail requests from D-1 athletes on day one of the new NIL rule wishing to be brand ambassadors on social media. He shared some texts from basketball and football players. Perhaps a benefit of this new NCAA rule is that the players will gain a better appreciation of American capitalism through personal experience than they do from lectures in classrooms taught by university professors! ::)
Ah yes, the $100+/tweet model that social media influencers can command. Geez, this will be interesting.
The NIL rule is justified, especially with the way the NCAA and many colleges were exploiting the athletes. The NCAA needs new leadership and must stop micromanaging trivial issues.
If students have to pay taxes for education, then are they required to forego an education, not pay taxes and just play their sport and get proper compensation?
One other issue to consider - non revenue or lower interest sports for men and women will be dropped.
The good news is that Emmert and NCAA operations will go away.
As an attorney who has experience with this, just want to chime in here on a couple issues brought up.
–@Chairback: Schools typically have policies preventing athletes from having endorsements in certain fields, like alcohol, tobacco, pornography, and gambling. In fact, some have more specific restrictions. BYU actually prevents any endorsements related to coffee, because it is in conflict with Mormonism.
– Comments regarding parity are well taken. Some schools may be disadvantaged because of location, number of businesses in their area, etc. However, let's be real, many of the schools are already disadvantaged because of location and many other factors. But, it's important to note, this could actually be a major victory for some programs who embrace the New World. The great thing about the Internet is that it is an equal playing field. Money is dictated by followers, not location or school size. I can tell you some of the most profitable college-athletes are often people that are not household names. There are gymnasts, lacrosse players, and basketball walk-ons that are making big deals because of this. There are even D2 athletes from rural schools that are making 5-6 figures off of this. I'm not saying it's all going to be smooth and go off without a hitch. But, it's not all bad when it comes to "Olympic sports" or small schools. I can tell you so far that the schools that are most proactive have been the most successful. The fact that Valpo is slow to the party is a bigger worry than the actual policy. If they would have embraced the change, they could've used it as an advantage.
Uh oh, pgmado, get ready to increase that budget!
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/31833403/texas-fan-site-secures-deal-pay-two-aggies-football-players-10000-exclusive-interviews
Other than big-time star basketball players at big-time programs (not talking about football), I don't see anyone benefitting much at all from this. For openers, mid major stars are still mid major stars. Alec Peters, for example, mentioned all the autographs he signed for free after games, and I know he did. Does he honestly think that if instead he set up at Dick's Sporting Goods on a Saturday morning, people would line up and pay $10 or whatever for his autograph? Someone mentioned that a program like Loyola would have a big advantage over Valpo because they're in a major metropolitan area. Really? Chicago, like most big cities, is exclusively a pro sports town. Sports fans live, eat and sleep the Bears, Cubs, Sox, Blackhawks, and Bulls. It's all Chicago sports radio talking heads ever discuss. No one follows Depaul - no one. Loyola was a blip on the radar until they went to the final 4. Could they have made a few bucks then? Probably, but how often are they going to be a Cinderella? In fact, the person who would have made the most money was Sister Jean - hands down - because she was a novelty and conversation piece. As for major programs, average players on good teams aren't going to get any attention. With rare exception, good to very good players on losing teams aren't going to be marketable. Think about Butler in Indy. Who's going to pay Butler players to do anything? Marketing experts can do some amazing things to help shape public opinion and attract business, but it's not a magic potion that turns someone who isn't marketable into someone who is. Just my $.02.
A timely article:
https://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/nation/2021/07/19/businesses-college-towns-face-new-nil-world/8014148002/
Quote from: wh on July 20, 2021, 09:55:35 AM
Other than big-time star basketball players at big-time programs (not talking about football), I don't see anyone benefitting much at all from this. For openers, mid major stars are still mid major stars. Alec Peters, for example, mentioned all the autographs he signed for free after games, and I know he did. Does he honestly think that if instead he set up at Dick's Sporting Goods on a Saturday morning, people would line up and pay $10 or whatever for his autograph? Someone mentioned that a program like Loyola would have a big advantage over Valpo because they're in a major metropolitan area. Really? Chicago, like most big cities, is exclusively a pro sports town. Sports fans live, eat and sleep the Bears, Cubs, Sox, Blackhawks, and Bulls. It's all Chicago sports radio talking heads ever discuss. No one follows Depaul - no one. Loyola was a blip on the radar until they went to the final 4. Could they have made a few bucks then? Probably, but how often are they going to be a Cinderella? In fact, the person who would have made the most money was Sister Jean - hands down - because she was a novelty and conversation piece. As for major programs, average players on good teams aren't going to get any attention. With rare exception, good to very good players on losing teams aren't going to be marketable. Think about Butler in Indy. Who's going to pay Butler players to do anything? Marketing experts can do some amazing things to help shape public opinion and attract business, but it's not a magic potion that turns someone who isn't marketable into someone who is. Just my $.02.
You are correct to some extent. Major college towns in the south have a significant advantage over cities that have Pro sports teams – in terms of players making money because they are associated with a certain college program. However, the majority of people making money from this aren't necessarily making money because they play for a team. They are making money because of what they do individually, whether that be playing video games, modeling on Instagram, being funny on TikTok, or creating a clothing brand. The people that are successful are successful because of who they are, not who they play for. It's all about your following, not necessarily even performance, just your following. Sure, being a better player will increase your followers but that's not the only component. For example, one of the most profitable players in the Big Ten is a walk-on who has played like 53 minutes total over four years. He is profitable because of his talent on the Internet, not on the court or an association with a program. So, there is an opportunity for non-star players at smaller programs reaping the benefits. We are already seeing it
Yeah I think the other piece missing her is that student athletes were forbidden from making any type of outside money on themselves even if it wasn't related to sports. A swimmer couldn't open their own t-shirt company on-line, a football player couldn't sell customized shoes or other art work etc. I think those types of rules would impact a lot more players and are incredibly unfair in a way that balances out whatever happens with some of the big name guys and gals at the bigger schools. Think about Eron, maybe he could get some sponsors for his youtube shows now which are not at all just basketball focused.
Quote from: wh on July 20, 2021, 09:55:35 AM
Other than big-time star basketball players at big-time programs (not talking about football), I don't see anyone benefitting much at all from this. For openers, mid major stars are still mid major stars. Alec Peters, for example, mentioned all the autographs he signed for free after games, and I know he did. Does he honestly think that if instead he set up at Dick's Sporting Goods on a Saturday morning, people would line up and pay $10 or whatever for his autograph? Someone mentioned that a program like Loyola would have a big advantage over Valpo because they're in a major metropolitan area. Really? Chicago, like most big cities, is exclusively a pro sports town. Sports fans live, eat and sleep the Bears, Cubs, Sox, Blackhawks, and Bulls. It's all Chicago sports radio talking heads ever discuss. No one follows Depaul - no one. Loyola was a blip on the radar until they went to the final 4. Could they have made a few bucks then? Probably, but how often are they going to be a Cinderella? In fact, the person who would have made the most money was Sister Jean - hands down - because she was a novelty and conversation piece. As for major programs, average players on good teams aren't going to get any attention. With rare exception, good to very good players on losing teams aren't going to be marketable. Think about Butler in Indy. Who's going to pay Butler players to do anything? Marketing experts can do some amazing things to help shape public opinion and attract business, but it's not a magic potion that turns someone who isn't marketable into someone who is. Just my $.02.
You may be correct. But I think we will need to come back and revisit this at the end of the next few seasons.
Quote from: crusader05 on July 20, 2021, 04:29:57 PMYeah I think the other piece missing her is that student athletes were forbidden from making any type of outside money on themselves even if it wasn't related to sports. A swimmer couldn't open their own t-shirt company on-line, a football player couldn't sell customized shoes or other art work etc. I think those types of rules would impact a lot more players and are incredibly unfair in a way that balances out whatever happens with some of the big name guys and gals at the bigger schools. Think about Eron, maybe he could get some sponsors for his youtube shows now which are not at all just basketball focused.
100% agree with this. This is what always seemed unfair to me. Student athletes now have the opportunity to use their non athletic talents to make money the way anyone else would be able to. The vast majority of student athletes are not going to be getting shoe deals, or advertising spots, or money for autographs.
Now, there will be that top 1% that will have boosters pay for interviews or some BS as a way to lure recruits. But that was all happening behind the scenes anyway and those guys were never mid major recruits to begin with. I honestly don't see this changing things much.
Much like the transfer portal, there will be the students that are looking for that Perfect deal and they will be left out in the cold once they realize no one is paying them for advertising spots or speaking engagements.
https://twitter.com/lainehiggins17/status/1422169139314143240
With the Olympics going on it has also made me wonder how this may effect people in sports that don't get a lot of attention until the Olympics or where the NIL rules may now mean your choice isn't always Olympic money and/or swimming for a college.
Suni Lee, the Olympic Gold Medalist in All-Around Gymnastics will be a major beneficiary of the new NIL rules. Before, she would not have been able to participate in gymnastics in college if she chose to do DWTS, a national tour or Subway ads. Now, she can participate in those activities and may be able to perform in Simone Biles gymnastics tour (which will need some other headliners), and she can still compete at Auburn, where she had committed and plans to attend for her freshperson year this Fall. The schools will need to determine how to balance the athletes travel and competition schedules. The same will be true for those college swimmers who competed in the Olympics -- TYR deals for all of them. From that perspective, that's a positive of the NIL rules.
The big news nationally and in particular, in Texas is that Qwinn Ewers, the nations #1 rated Quarterback, is skipping his senior year of high school to enroll at Ohio State. It's all about the money.
https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/article253198923.html#:~:text=Ben%20Powell%20AP-,Quinn%20Ewers%2C%20considered%20the%20top%20quarterback%20prospect%20in%20the%20class,State%20for%20the%20upcoming%20semester.
Quote from: vu72 on August 03, 2021, 04:23:16 PM
The big news nationally and in particular, in Texas is that Qwinn Ewers, the nations #1 rated Quarterback, is skipping his senior year of high school to enroll at Ohio State. It's all about the money.
https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/article253198923.html#:~:text=Ben%20Powell%20AP-,Quinn%20Ewers%2C%20considered%20the%20top%20quarterback%20prospect%20in%20the%20class,State%20for%20the%20upcoming%20semester.
Smart guy
Quote from: vu72 on August 03, 2021, 04:23:16 PM
The big news nationally and in particular, in Texas is that Qwinn Ewers, the nations #1 rated Quarterback, is skipping his senior year of high school to enroll at Ohio State. It's all about the money.
https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/article253198923.html#:~:text=Ben%20Powell%20AP-,Quinn%20Ewers%2C%20considered%20the%20top%20quarterback%20prospect%20in%20the%20class,State%20for%20the%20upcoming%20semester.
Screw Southlake Carroll, go Colleyville Heritage :)
Athletic booster "business collectives" promising huge payouts to prize football recruits
https://wcfcourier.com/sports/college/football/nil-was-factor-on-signing-day-how-big-of-one-up-for-debate/article_613a90f9-7239-513e-8e0e-c6a6f11eea0f.html
This is only the beginning. As I stated in another thread, people are born to cheat, lie, and steal.
I am sure that Ewers will have a massive amount of NIL at UT
The Recruiting Guy:
NIL deals becoming more absurd
https://www.wholehogsports.com/news/2022/jan/09/nil-deals-becoming-absurd/
Business "cooperatives" are forming around big time FB programs. 4 and 5-star players are going to the highest bidder. Offers and counter offers. Texas A&M has bought the No. 1 2022 FB recruiting class, and the highest rated recruiting class in college FB history. They are offering 4-and 5-star players up to $100,000/yr. for 4 years - paid every year up front.
This is only the beginning. Look for under the table payments on top of NIL payments. Booster sleaze now rules college athletics.
Not to mention coaches leaving for other schools and taking players with them. Yeah I'm looking at you USC.
not sure what you are say ok... but college football needs USC to be great again. It cant be all SEC all the time.
Hate to break it to you, but "Booster Sleaze" has been running big time college football for several decades now.
Possibly, but we have never seen a coach leave one school and go to another while bringing several of his players with him. That's a first.
We haven't seen Texas A&M ever have the number ranked recruiting class until boosters starting step up the way they did this year.