I think I'm going. I need a vacation!
https://www.valpoathletics.com/mbasketball/news/2021-22/20567/valpo-basketball-to-participate-in-baha-mar-hoops-nassau-championship/
I like it! A good mid major tournament with quality mid major teams!!!
Coastal Carolina is a good first round get.
https://twitter.com/valpoathletics/status/1420432406784380937
We went to Battle 4 Atlantis a number of years ago. This is at a different place, but it looks like a similar setup. If it is like Battle 4 Atlantis, the "stadium" is setup in a large conference center which is not normally used for basketball - which means a low ceiling and strange lighting. Additionally, the Battle 4 Atlantis has no locker rooms - so players dress in their rooms and walk to the playing area and then walk back to their rooms after the game. Not bad, just pretty different. Looks like a good field and nice that the players will get a trip to the Bahamas.
An all mid-major field provides an opportunity to build some early season momentum without risk of getting drummed by some dominant high major. It should be an exciting and fun experience for the players and coaches alike.
Quote from: wh on July 28, 2021, 04:48:21 PMAn all mid-major field provides an opportunity to build some early season momentum without risk of getting drummed by some dominant high major.
If there is any drumming we might be the one doing it!
The final 2021 NET is now meaningless but for reference only Toledo 67, Charlotte 231, Drexel 135, Tulane 168, Ab Christian 74, Jacksonville St 256, Coastal Carolina 154, and VU at 229.
Winning this tournament would be impressive and likely a sign of things to come. This is the breakout year with breakout talent. There is good reason to be optimistic this year.
It also gives us the opportunity to rub elbows with other mid-majors that perhaps could provide some pre-conference scheduling possibilities in the future.
Not a bad field. A solid program in Toledo an AAC team (Tulane) a team that won a tournament game (Abeline Christian) another tournament team (Drexel) and it looks winnable given the talent on the roster. I'm okay with this.
I just saw that Abilene Christian has withdrawn from the tournament due to COVID issues. By looking at various websites, I see that Valpo will now open against Jacksonville State (instead of Coastal Carolina). Per Coastal Carolina website, they now have a first round "bye", and will play the winner of the Valpo/Jacksonville St. game. Not a huge deal as Valpo will still get 3 games, but they do have a much easier first round opponent.
Quote from: EddieCabot on November 18, 2021, 05:14:38 PM
I just saw that Abilene Christian has withdrawn from the tournament due to COVID issues. By looking at various websites, I see that Valpo will now open against Jacksonville State (instead of Coastal Carolina). Per Coastal Carolina website, they now have a first round "bye", and will play the winner of the Valpo/Jacksonville St. game. Not a huge deal as Valpo will still get 3 games, but they do have a much easier first round opponent.
Oops! I just saw wh post in another thread that Valpo could get only 2 games if they lose the opener.
It looks like to watch you have to subscribe to a streaming service called Flosports.
Regardless, 2 or 3 games doesn't matter in regards to Kobe King, I hopefully don't think we'd miss him during East-West...but with how weak this team is...
Jacksonville State has a great coach with a solid record of success with two different colleges and the team this year is pretty good too. (Or expected to be good.)
QuoteJacksonville State Gamecocks
2020-2021: 18-9, 13-6 in the OVC
Departures: No major departures
Graduates taking an extra year: Brandon Huffman, Darian Adams, and Kayne Henry
Additions: 6-3 Mount St. Mary's transfer Jalen Gibbs (16.5 ppg., 4.8 rpg., 42.3% 3pt. in 4 games)
Preseason Projection: NCAA Round of 64
With three starters (including two All-OVC players) returning to take advantage of the extra year of eligibility granted by the NCAA, Ray Harper's Gamecocks will be an immediate contender for the ASUN's automatic NCAA Tournament bid in their first year in the conference. Jalen Gibbs was off to an outstanding start to his senior year at Mount St. Mary's (including a 19 point effort against Maryland) before making an interesting decision to opt out ostensibly due to covid and quickly entering the transfer portal. He will join first team All-OVC point guard Darian Adams (15.7 ppg., 4.6 rpg., 3.1 apg., 36.9% 3pt.) and senior point guard Jalen Finch (11.0 ppg., 3.9 rpg., 4.8 apg., 38.2% 3pt.), who was outstanding in his first year in Division I, to form what should be one of the best trios of guards in college basketball. The Gamecocks eventually figured out how good 6-10 North Carolina transfer Brandon Huffman could be in January, and he averaged 12.0 points, 7.9 rebounds, and 1.6 blocks over the team's last 17 games on his way to earning second team All-OVC honors. Senior stretch four Amanze Ngumezi (8.7 ppg., 40.0% 3pt.), a 6-9 former Georgia transfer, started to fulfill his potential last season as well, and should be in line for a strong senior year. Harper won two NCAA Division II championships and two NAIA Division I championships at previous stops, and he will have plenty of talent and experience available to lead the Gamecocks back to the NCAA Tournament for the first time since his first year at the school in 2016-2017.
https://howtheyplay.com/team-sports/NCAA-Basketball-Mid-Major-Teams-to-Watch-in-2022
Good thing Toledo is on the other side.....
Quote from: Just Sayin on November 18, 2021, 06:18:55 PMJacksonville State has a great coach with a solid record of success with two different colleges and the team this year is pretty good too. (Or expected to be good.)
I will second or third this. Pretty good team.
We were expected to be good too though and that has worked out swimmingly so far...
Is anyone going? Hopefully we have at least a few fans there to support the team. Maybe a little dose of sunshine will turn this team around. My hopefulness is hanging by a thread.
I'm legitimately concerned we go winless in this tournament.
Sadly, I think this is the most likely scenario.
Quote from: VUSERF on November 19, 2021, 09:11:23 AM
I'm legitimately concerned we go winless in this tournament.
Sadly, I think this is the most likely scenario.
It likely depends on Thomas and Ben. If both are healthy we could win the whole thing. If both are out then we get drilled in the first game.
Will Ben be playing? We've clearly demonstrated we can't win without him, so that's all that matters to me. Our "next man up" replacement for Ben in the starting lineup has scored a grand total of 2 points in 3 games on 1-11 FG, 0-3 3FG, and 0-0 FT. I understand that that's somehow Coach Matt Lottich's fault that his 6th year senior is a shell of his former self. That aside, simple math tells me that adding about 35-45 more points had Ben played Eron's minutes, and we'd be sitting at 3-0 instead of 0-3.
In the meantime we're in a holding cell waiting for Ben to pay our bail and drive us home. If he doesn't come soon, then we're waiting on Ben - and Kobe. Who knows, maybe we'll be waiting on Ben, Kobe - and Thomas. Won't that be a treat. If only that Lottich could coach this would all be meaningless!!
Quote from: wh on November 19, 2021, 09:56:35 AMWill Ben be playing? We've clearly demonstrated we can't win without him, so that's all that matters to me. Our "next man up" replacement for Ben in the starting lineup has scored a grand total of 2 points in 3 games on 1-11 FG, 0-3 3FG, and 0-0 FT. I understand that that's somehow Coach Matt Lottich's fault that his 6th year senior is a shell of his former self. That aside, simple math tells me that adding about 35-45 more points had Ben played Eron's minutes, and we'd be sitting at 3-0 instead of 0-3. In the meantime we're in a holding cell waiting for Ben to pay our bail and drive us home. If he doesn't come soon, then we're waiting on Ben - and Kobe. Who knows, maybe we'll be waiting on Ben, Kobe - and Thomas. Won't that be a treat. If only that Lottich could coach this would all be meaningless!!
Two words: Indiana. State. No stability (new coach lots of transfers) No Key (best player by far) No problem. Still 3-1. Why? Coaching is the only thing I can think of unless Indiana State is somehow more talented than we are which would also be a Lottich problem because it shows that he can't even recruit. I don't subscribe to the Matt can't recruit theory but the Matt can't coach theory? The evidence seems pretty darn compelling there.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 19, 2021, 10:44:57 AM
Quote from: wh on November 19, 2021, 09:56:35 AMWill Ben be playing? We've clearly demonstrated we can't win without him, so that's all that matters to me. Our "next man up" replacement for Ben in the starting lineup has scored a grand total of 2 points in 3 games on 1-11 FG, 0-3 3FG, and 0-0 FT. I understand that that's somehow Coach Matt Lottich's fault that his 6th year senior is a shell of his former self. That aside, simple math tells me that adding about 35-45 more points had Ben played Eron's minutes, and we'd be sitting at 3-0 instead of 0-3. In the meantime we're in a holding cell waiting for Ben to pay our bail and drive us home. If he doesn't come soon, then we're waiting on Ben - and Kobe. Who knows, maybe we'll be waiting on Ben, Kobe - and Thomas. Won't that be a treat. If only that Lottich could coach this would all be meaningless!!
Two words: Indiana. State. No stability (new coach lots of transfers) No Key (best player by far) No problem. Still 3-1. Why? Coaching is the only thing I can think of unless Indiana State is somehow more talented than we are which would also be a Lottich problem because it shows that he can't even recruit. I don't subscribe to the Matt can't recruit theory but the Matt can't coach theory? The evidence seems pretty darn compelling there.
Are you actually going to double down on your bogus comparison of a team with its full complement of players vs. a team without its top returning scorer and rebounder and all-conference designee? A team without its no. 1 transfer who as a sophomore at P-5 Wisconsin started and averaged 10 PPG 13 PPG in league? I assume you tried a little slight-of-hand there (twice); otherwise, I'm worried about you.
I'm sorry, we can't always have instant gratification. Stuff happens that's nobody's fault. It's called life.
Quote from: wh on November 19, 2021, 12:03:49 PMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on November 19, 2021, 10:44:57 AMQuote from: wh on November 19, 2021, 09:56:35 AMWill Ben be playing? We've clearly demonstrated we can't win without him, so that's all that matters to me. Our "next man up" replacement for Ben in the starting lineup has scored a grand total of 2 points in 3 games on 1-11 FG, 0-3 3FG, and 0-0 FT. I understand that that's somehow Coach Matt Lottich's fault that his 6th year senior is a shell of his former self. That aside, simple math tells me that adding about 35-45 more points had Ben played Eron's minutes, and we'd be sitting at 3-0 instead of 0-3. In the meantime we're in a holding cell waiting for Ben to pay our bail and drive us home. If he doesn't come soon, then we're waiting on Ben - and Kobe. Who knows, maybe we'll be waiting on Ben, Kobe - and Thomas. Won't that be a treat. If only that Lottich could coach this would all be meaningless!!
Two words: Indiana. State. No stability (new coach lots of transfers) No Key (best player by far) No problem. Still 3-1. Why? Coaching is the only thing I can think of unless Indiana State is somehow more talented than we are which would also be a Lottich problem because it shows that he can't even recruit. I don't subscribe to the Matt can't recruit theory but the Matt can't coach theory? The evidence seems pretty darn compelling there.
Are you actually going to double down on your bogus comparison of a team with its full complement of players vs. a team without its top returning scorer and rebounder and all-conference designee? A team without its no. 1 transfer who as a sophomore at P-5 Wisconsin started and averaged 10 PPG 13 PPG in league? I assume you tried a little slight-of-hand there (twice); otherwise, I'm worried about you. I'm sorry, we can't always have instant gratification. Stuff happens that's nobody's fault. It's called life.
Right because Indiana State isn't missing Tyreke Key or anybody of that caliber right? You're not going to tell me Tyreke Key isn't an all MVC caliber player are you? Did Indiana State not lose Jake LaRavia (their second leading scorer and leading rebounder to transfer ? Did they not lose their fourth leading scorer leading rebounder and leading shot blocker Tre Williams to transfer too? Yes they did because they are Out for the Year with injury and at Wake Forest and Duquesne respectively. In light of these minor omissions on your part I must question who is really trying sleight of hand here.
They have a first year coach a completely overhauled roster headlined in large part by D2 players and they are 3-1. We have a sixth year coach (fifth in the MVC) highlighted by transfers out of the Big 10 having experienced similar injury issues and yet we are 0-3. What else could it be if not coaching wh? I admire your constant optimism but come on. I've tried to see it your way many times in the Lottich era--even denying my eyes and the numbers to do so not trusting in my own powers of observation and my own analysis to try to be a good and loyal fan through thick and thin-- and it just leads to disappointment at every turn. At this point it feels like to continue to be positive and optimistic is to completely deny the reality we face and I just can't do it anymore. I can't keep doing this to myself and no Valpo fan should be doing it to themselves. "If we just get X or Y player back" or "if only we hadn't experienced this transfer." "Just wait until we gel together and we get over these injuries" It's excuse after excuse. Meanwhile a team that could easily hang its head and hide behind all of the same excuses. Literally all of them. Has managed to start 3-1 against decent competition.
Indiana State's coach is winning games that this team would probably lose (Yes Toledo is a good team and Stanford is P5 but we couldn't even beat UIC or either of the D2 teams we played I have no confidence we can win any game we play. We have exactly ONE D1 OOC win over the past season-plus. ONE. Against OVC bottom feeder SIUE Meanwhile Indiana State fires their coach who was performing at about Lottich's level if we're being quite honest with ourselves loses a bunch of transfers pulls together a skeleton crew of players the portal didn't want (outside of Key who just must not have found the right fit or role because I'm sure he had offers) and former D2 players and is winning. You may not like these facts because they don't suit your rose tinted narrative but this is all 100% factual.
This isn't about wanting instant gratification. This is about wanting to see the team fix issues that have plagued it the entire Lottich tenure. This is about ending what has become half a decade of frustration outside of that flash in the pan at Arch Madness. Most people who underperform at their job for five years even amidst a lot of hardships don't get the benefit of patience. They're out on their behind well before that and you know that. Even Lansing eventually exhausted his patience at Indiana State and he had an NCAA appearance two NITs and a CIT to his name against Missouri Valley competition. Matt has an NIT with Bryce's players against HL competition and literally nothing else except a fluky run at Arch Madness. Lansing was 181-164 in his tenure at Indiana State. Lottich as an MVC coach is 59-72. If it weren't Valpo basketball and you weren't so enamored with Lottich's character as a man (which is impeccable) there's no way you would be such a staunch defender of him. The eyes don't lie and neither do the numbers which indicate the results we have achieved under Lottich. This is a program that is nowhere near where it needs to be and there is little to suggest that it will get there any time soon. Lottich has had plenty of time by this point to right the ship and show us he's capable of better and he just simply hasn't been able to do so. I respect your willingness to try to get me to see the other side of things but I think it is you who needs a dose of perspective this time. Pessimism isn't good but neither is toxic positivity which is what I feel you are exhibiting here in regards to the state of the program.
Still a completely bogus comparison. No one, including you, knows anything about Indiana State's current team or the impact their new players will have. You also cherry-picked a statistically meaningless number of games. For all anyone knows, they could lose their next 10 games. Also, if you want to go by who they lost from last year, we lost 3/4 of our entire roster. Using your logic, I guess I should throw that in there as a another factor why we're struggling out of the gate - player churn, lack of familiarity. But then I remember what those two MVC blogger basketball scientists said - you can't win that way (or a similar profound, original thought like that), so I know that excuse isn't legitimate.
I previously challenged anyone to show me mid major examples where a team is severely hampered by injuries (and/or awaiting eligibility of a key player) that just went on their merry way. Let's see. How about N. Iowa? They lost the top player in the league A.J. Green and went from 25-6 to 10-15. We lost the 2nd ranked player in the league and went 10-18. The last year they both played, JFL and company took us to the conference championship game while Green and company were cleaning out their lockers. BTW the league portrayed Jacobson as a poor victim of circumstances trying to do the best he can with a bunch of rumdums. What happened to "next man up?" Why didn't he have other quality players to pick up the slack? Why are they 0-3 against D-1 opponents so far this season - with Green playing? Maybe Green's not 100%, who knows? But even if that's true, what happened to "next man up?" I could find a hundred stories similar to that for every "went on their merry way" story you can come up with.
This is my last post on the matter of Coach Matt Lottich until the season is over and all the facts are in. In the meantime if it somehow makes you feel less miserable to have a fall guy to trash, by all means have at it. Just do me a favor. If things would happen to turn around, stay consistent. Just say we won in spite of our coach, or something like that. Don't change your mind about Matt - for the 40th time.
I've been critical of Northern Iowa during the Green years for being too dependent on him and the fact that having a leading star who doesn't play defense which will (and has) hampered them from reaching the heights their overly exuberant fanbase told me they would and sold many (including me) into believing for awhile. Jacobson got the portrayal as a victim of circumstance because one can argue that he had earned that through past performance. Not recently mind you but like pre 2016 Texas A&M collapse. Jacobson has a resume not even Homer or Bryce can touch. Four NCAA Tournament wins (including a Sweet 16) an NIT and two CIT appearances. He even won the MVC twice while Creighton and Wichita State were still in the league. Lottich hasn't done anything remotely resembling that. That's why the media is softer on Jacobson. If Matt had done it before and proven his acumen like Jacobson has he would get (and deserve) a lot more leeway. JFL was a special recruit and I can't help but wonder what he would have done and what VU would have done as a program had he been coached by one of the Drews but he wasn't. The reason we fared better in the tournament than UNI was because we had a two way star. Everybody knows that defense wins especially in leagues like the MVC. It was the calling card of Jacobson's most successful UNI teams as well which they have sadly gone away from to their detriment.
As for Indiana State you've just made my point for me: They are winning in spite of that player churn and we are not. What gives? Are Green Bay and Old Dominion going to be significantly worse than UIC or the D2s Matt lost to this year? It doesn't matter to me that those games didn't count. We all saw them. You can fool yourself into thinking this is just Bethel 1998 but do you honestly believe that? Why? I would love to be able to think everything is sunshine and roses in Valpo because we are being led by a good Christian man of high character who is shaping good men of high character and that is great for society. Who doesn't want more men of high character out there in the world? But they are also charged with (because it is one of the primary reasons why they are here and it is Matt's main reason for being here) winning basketball games and they have come up woefully short in that regard.
Basing your hope on what COULD happen when what you are proposing is extremely hypothetical given what we are seeing right now is a pointless argument and I know you are smart enough to see that. Matt COULD win the next 10-15 games. Valpo COULD win 25 or so games and make the tournament. But have you seen anything at all that would remotely suggest that such a thing would be even the least bit likely? It doesn't make the criticism that I am making RIGHT NOW any less valid to know that it could turn around. Anything can happen but that doesn't mean this pie in the sky fantasy scenario like the one you described for ISUb or that I have outlined for Valpo in my post is going to happen. I have no doubt Krikke makes a difference I have no doubt King will make a difference. Having that kind of talent makes a difference but we still have most of the talent we have assembled on this roster that was supposed to be good playing and available to us and we are still losing.
Everyone (including me) wrote the eulogy for Indiana State before the season started and they look like they are thriving but they have not lost a single game that they weren't expected to lose. I have no doubt they will take some losses probably starting tonight and when they open up conference play with Loyola but by your logic they COULD win those games and right now there is more reason to believe that Indiana State could pull an upset of that caliber than there is that we can and that is even with a healthy team. It's to the point where I feel like "well we MIGHT beat Jacksonville State We MIGHT beat Coastal Carolina." With or without Krikke and King those should absolutely be wins if the program is healthy. As things stand right now right this moment which is the only thing we know for sure it's hard not to think that Indiana State is in a better place as a program than we are right now.
We are coming up on a full calendar year since we won a D1 game out of conference. Injuries or not that is wholly unacceptable. I could deal with some bad stretches or a bad season or two but it's getting to the point where we're literally praying for a fifth place finish. You think that is the mark of a good program? 59-72 since we moved to the MVC is your idea of success? Not only are our facilities upgrades scant and being picked on by MVC writers and observers we have also lost the performance aspect that papered over those shortcomings. Too much longer and our success will be too distant a memory for it to be relied upon as a factor in recruiting and our issues with whether or not we are committed to athletics success (and I think there is evidence both for and against that given the growth of our other sports around the department even with our flagging MBB performance) will become more of a concern.
You can say that I'm not seeing the bigger picture. You can say that I'm too pessimistic and I might be willing to grant you that but it's really hard to remain positive and bullish on the program when you see a program facing all of the same issues we are facing and winning games while we continue to stack losses. Yes our schedule has been tougher than Indiana State's so far but I have no confidence in this team in any game anymore to the point where if we win it's a pleasant surprise. Winning used to be the default expectation no matter the opponent and that is the standard (because that is what I am used to) that I judge the program on.
You no doubt have enough experience of the program to know that the Drew years were actually the pleasant surprise but that is not the standard I wish to judge the program on. That is not what I will be content to accept. I always felt that this program was and is capable of more and my displeasure at this point comes from those unrealized dreams and that untapped potential. The unfulfilled optimism that I felt when we got into the MVC much like how an idealist feels when they are hit by the reality of the world. The reality that outside of the Drew era we simply haven't been that good and maybe based on that which is a heck of a lot of evidence it was better for me to expect that. At least then I wouldn't be so disappointed and upset by all these losses. Maybe this is just who we are: a mediocre also-ran program who got lucky and caught an extended wave of success that they rode well above their station not the mid major power we all built up in our most optimistic visions I know I'm not the only fan who feels this way.
It's hard not to believe that we win in spite of Matt a lot because of how bad we are when we don't have the unquestioned best player on the floor (and even with that advantage we are a mediocre MVC team as the JFL years showed) and when the exact same issues (slow starts long droughts getting outrebounded turnovers etc.) still plague the program. It's like he can't make adjustments which is what a competent coach should be able to do. You can look at it and see all the reasons why better days are ahead if we can just get healthy That's fine Maybe you're right but I see a lot to be concerned about that has not been fixed from previous years and therefore see no reason to believe that the issues will be fixed in the future. I'm sorry. I'm just getting to the point where I'm about done hoping for better. The Lottich era has pretty much broken me and I just want Valpo basketball to be fun again.
I truly hope Lottich is on the hot seat, but lets face the fact that Valpo is consistently overly patient in making changes.
Quote from: usc4valpo on November 19, 2021, 08:08:04 PM
I truly hope Lottich is on the hot seat, but lets face the fact that Valpo is consistently overly patient in making changes.
Then again, you're the same person who thinks Stephen Austin College should be in the MVC.
I don't understand the relationship. I will say SFA has had athletics success and is a growing school in a growing state. I don't understand why they would be a bad fit for the Valley.
Lottich has had too many chances and there are too many excuses. Stanford was nothing special, and they looked much better coached while Valpo was moving around like chickens with their head cut off.
You cannot be serious in comparing our lineup/and returning team this season with IN State. That is as bad as a few nights ago NBC Sports-Chicago, carrying the Loyola-Chicago State game, raving how good LU was as they played against a low, low ranked D-1 team that has only won a handful of games all told over the past several years.