Saints look to build on last year's success
https://flaglerathletics.com/news/2021/11/3/MBB_1103_Preview.aspx
Some sobering facts:
• Return four starters.
• Have four 5th year seniors and 1 6th year senior.
• 6-foot-2 senior guard Lottie finished 7th in the nation in scoring with 24.4 PPG. Selected Peach Belt Conference POY and NCAA D2 South Region Most Valuable Player.
• 6-foot-7 forward (sixth season) last year shot 71.6 percent from the field, second-best in the nation, averaged 11.8 points and 6.2 rebounds per game. Had biggest game, 26 points on 13-of-15 shooting, in Flagler's rout (92-73) of NCAA Division I member Central Michigan University.
• Jalen Barr, a 6-foot-4 swing, was PBC Defender of the Year.
• Added several high profile transfers.
I'm glad someone else started this thread...I'm like 1-3 dating back to last season and Ashland lol. I'll take East-West in a few weeks ! Can we beat an even better D2 team ? I'll be optimistic.
VU 70
Flagler 67
Todd and I on the radio for the game. Intrigued to see how Valpo comes out for this one.
Flagler College men's basketball begins season ranked second in NCAA Division II poll
https://www.staugustine.com/story/sports/college/2021/10/27/flagler-college-mens-basketball-begins-season-second-ncaa-division-ii-poll/8568078002/
I will be looking for 2 or 3 basic adjustments from game-1.
---Matt talked previously about the physicality of the new transfers during practice, how the freshmen weren't used to that, etc. None of that was on display last Saturday. I will be looking for hardnosed, in-your-face, physical defense for 40 minutes by everyone on the court. Make it hard for them to get to the basket, force them into long possessions, make them make mistakes, tire them out. Most D-2 games are not that physical. Play to your advantage.
---Use the clock on offense and make them work on defense. Get the ball into the post. Take 3's as a last resort, not a first resort.
Presumably, Ben won't play. That is a huge loss. Having a 1-2 punchdown low with Thomas would have been a huge advantage. You can almost guarantee 60% shooting from those guys, and drawing a bunch of fouls.
I JUST NOTICED, I SEEM TO BE TALKING TO MYSELF. LOL
Does anyone think that Matt will have learned from the first game and tailored his practices to work on team weaknesses, that he will make adjustments during the game when called for at critical moments, and will bring this team to victory?
You can say all you want about how Div 2 teams are better than they were in the past but there is no way that a good Div 1 team in a tough conference should get spanked two times by any Div 2 team. We should be winning these games big time. Yes, we had an outlier situation the year we went to the Sweet 16 but c'mon, our expectations should be a lot higher than "I hope we win this exhibition game against a good Div 2 team."
Quote from: wh on November 04, 2021, 10:34:23 AMI JUST NOTICED, I SEEM TO BE TALKING TO MYSELF. LOL
Thats good because nobody else wants to
talk listen to us!
I have vowed patience until Thanksgiving! After that my inner ugliness may reemerge. >:(
The Ashland game may have exposed a big weakness this year, that is how thin we are in the front court. To be successful this year the two K's may each need to play 35 minutes a game. Having one on the bench for an extended time seems to disrupt the offense, too often reducing it to jacking up quick threes. If Big Joe can't contribute valuable minutes, we are going to struggle when one of the K's are out.
As for this game, I expect the team will play better, particularly on defense. I'm afraid however that it may not be reflected in the score as Flagler appears to be a better team than Ashland, at least on paper. If we were to win by more than 5 I will be surprised and pleased. If we win or lose by 5 I will be satisfied. If we lose by 6 to 15. I'll be disappointed but not surprised. Lose by more than that and well, I'll say we have a long way to go to be at all competitive this year.
As usual, I try to keep my expectations low early as I prefer to see them exceeded rather than have high expectations dashed.
Please don't embarrass us AGAIN...
https://twitter.com/valpobasketball/status/1456402053455040521?s=21
Down at the half... oh boy... Last year I believe we only won one D1 game OOC are we going to struggle to even match that output this season?
Why does everything have to be so difficult in the Lottich era? We were spoiled with the Drew Family but the Lottich has really made me more grateful for what we had under the Drew Family.
I'm not giving up on this Team, but it's really difficult to watch Lottich's Teams... the highs are high, damn are the Lows very Low.
https://twitter.com/valpobasketball/status/1456408342193188867?s=21
Quote from: VU2014 on November 04, 2021, 07:06:19 PMWhy does everything have to be so difficult in the Lottich era? We were spoiled with the Drew Family but the Lottich has really made become more grateful for what we had under the Drew Family. I'm not giving up on this Team, but it's really difficult to watch Lottich's Teams... the highs are high, damn are the Lows very Low. https://twitter.com/valpobasketball/status/1456408342193188867?s=21
This is what happens when you don't have a succession plan in place (If you're going to hire from within you have to KNOW BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT that your chosen candidate is going to accept the job. If not, and you still take that route because you're too cheap to do a national search, this is what you end up with.
I think we really miss Krikke.
Quote from: tjjvalpo on November 04, 2021, 07:25:31 PMI think we really miss Krikke.
I agree and he's a great and very important player but if losing him makes it so we can't even beat a D2 or at least that we struggle to beat them then we're not a very good team. Sorry that's just a fact. In our preseason exuberance we have probably overrated this team severely. This could be a long season.
Pulling away a bit perhaps... Thank God...
We have to remember we are playing against the second best team in NCAA II basketball. For those that remember when Marquette and then UWGB were the top NCAA II teams that beat NCAA I teams regularly. We not playing our usually D2 teams that we have in the past.
I think we really miss defense
This Flagler (almost) exact roster beat Central Michigan by 20 last year. We played Central Michigan just a couple weeks later and were lucky to lose to them by 5. In theory they are likely even better than they were last year too considering they returned all their key players.
Even so this is a horrible sign of things to come I would think. If we're as good as we thought we were we should be winning these games. I'm not expecting much this season after these performances.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 04, 2021, 07:53:08 PM
Even so this is a horrible sign of things to come I would think. If we're as good as we thought we were we should be winning these games. I'm not expecting much this season after these performances.
Yea I defintiely agree it's not a good sign and we should absolutely be winning these games. Still will only be judging this team on their D1 games, but frankly if they are this sloppy against D2 teams I don't see why that would magically change by next week. Starting to feel like the Bears where every game is like watching the same sloppy crappy game with excuses but just enough success when they need it to justify not making significant changes.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 04, 2021, 07:53:08 PM
Even so this is a horrible sign of things to come I would think. If we're as good as we thought we were we should be winning these games. I'm not expecting much this season after these performances.
I think you are very wrong. We got like 7 points and they got something like 25 from their bench. That all changes when Ben and Barrett get back and Eron goes to the bench, where he belongs. Kithier, Anderson and Taylor are the real deal.
I understand these were two good dII teams. I understand we have many new players, and are still missing a couple of key contributors. But going 0-2 against DII teams is an absolute embarrassment.
Quote from: vu72 on November 04, 2021, 07:58:32 PMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on November 04, 2021, 07:53:08 PMEven so this is a horrible sign of things to come I would think. If we're as good as we thought we were we should be winning these games. I'm not expecting much this season after these performances.
I think you are very wrong. We got like 7 points and they got something like 25 from their bench. That all changes when Ben and Barrett get back and Eron goes to the bench, where he belongs. Kithier, Anderson and Taylor are the real deal.
If you say so. This team looks like it has bottom dwelling Thursday team written all over it. Please go out and prove me wrong Beacons but this is such a low point as a fan. It's just one disappointment after another and it's hard to stay hopeful at this point. It's to the point where I almost expect to lose and am pleasantly surprised when we don't. It's sad. I don't want to feel this way. I want to be proud of my team again and feel like we were going to win no matter who we were up against. I miss those days. Will they ever come again?
You think we could just replace our players with the other team players? Why didn't we offer those guys? Or are they just better coached?
Lottich Teams really know how to squander good preseason vibes from the Fanbase and students.
Embarrassing
Quote from: VUSWIM08-12 on November 03, 2021, 09:42:48 PM
I'm glad someone else started this thread...I'm like 1-3 dating back to last season and Ashland lol. I'll take East-West in a few weeks ! Can we beat an even better D2 team ? I'll be optimistic.
VU 70
Flagler 67
Sooo close
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I will not put stock into a short-handed exhibition game. I will not put stock into a short-handed exhibition game. I will not put stock into a short-handed exhibition game. I will not put stock into a short-handed exhibition game. I will not put stock into a short-handed exhibition game.
All I'll say is that there aren't a whole lot of reasons to be optimistic.
Coulda shoulda won this game. Woulda been nice, but like I said earlier, I'm satisfied with a close loss as I was afraid it was going to be a blowout. Team played better tonight on defense overall, but was way to weak giving up points in the paint. Kithier is a horse, but he can't do it all. Bench didn't contribute much once again. Still, I want to see how they play with Ben and Conner available before I declare this another lost cause.
Always hoped for the best when the transfers started to find their way to Valpo. All I read about was how talented and hungry this group was/is. If that was all hype shame on me for believing it. I really wanted to believe after suffering through some awful years, post Peters. The coach was going to make things happen and he couldn't keep his most exciting franchise player JFL. Give me a break coach!!!! How much of your talent is figuring out that the Valpo Beacons don't have much of a chance to make the Dance with a confused leader. Go to Youtube and take a few online coaching classes. 0-2 to D2.
Quote from: Just Sayin on November 04, 2021, 10:39:42 AM
Does anyone think that Matt will have learned from the first game and tailored his practices to work on team weaknesses, that he will make adjustments during the game when called for at critical moments, and will bring this team to victory?
You can say all you want about how Div 2 teams are better than they were in the past but there is no way that a good Div 1 team in a tough conference should get spanked two times by any Div 2 team. We should be winning these games big time. Yes, we had an outlier situation the year we went to the Sweet 16 but c'mon, our expectations should be a lot higher than "I hope we win this exhibition game against a good Div 2 team."
Yes. How many players on those two teams were offered scholarships at Valpo or another Division I school?
This better light a fire under the the team, especially the locker room leaders. If we come out flat in any game the rest of the year, we're doing it wrong.
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Quote from: NativeCheesehead on November 04, 2021, 07:59:29 PM
I understand these were two good dII teams. I understand we have many new players, and are still missing a couple of key contributors. But going 0-2 against DII teams is an absolute embarrassment.
Agreed!
Where is my Grand Canyon season streaming pass.
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We do not have a plan. It's coaching. It's the exact same as last year but with better players. We stand around so much. There is zero movement.
Watch one of our timeouts and how long it takes for us to discuss a play. It's like the coaches rush into the huddle with 10 seconds left with the plan.
This team we played was not spectacular. They were a low level d1 at best. We act like they were Duke. I guess it was another moral victory tonight.
Rationalization.
I will hold off on making final evaluations of this team until I can see the Triple K lineup of Kithier, Krikke, and King on the court together. However, I am tired of the spinning we get from Lottich when the team isn't winning. When I hear the praise for Flagler and Ashland, you would think he was talking about Baylor and Gonzaga. They are good Division-2 teams, but we should be beating them, especially when up by 6 points coming out of the final media timeout.
I think of some of our previous 6th men and even guys that were coming off the bench further down. They would be stars on this team.
E. Victor Nickerson
Jabril
Bobby C.
David Skara
LaVonte Dority
How much longer on the Lottich contract? Anybody want to start a GoFundMe on the buyout?
With all the spectacular transfers coming in, why are 5 starters playing more than 30 mins in an exhibition and one guy off the bench playing more than 7 mins. Flagler (and Ashland for that matter) spread the minutes around as the lower level rosters of those programs are apparently deeper than what Valpo can put out there.
Shorthanded or not this tells me that the rest of this roster isn't good enough to compete in the MVC. Again if we were as good as we were led to believe we should have won these games even without Krikke Barratt and King. The fact that we didn't tells me that we need to dial back our expectations significantly and anything higher than like eighth place would be a pleasant surprise (At this point we deserve to be picked tenth until we prove otherwise).
This is pretty bad, and I think that a lot of uneven play awaits as a rotation emerges and these guys get used to each other. There may be another adjustment when King suits up. For now, Edwards is growing into a scorer, Kithier may be more of a 9/8 guy than the 7/6 guy I thought he'd be, Taylor gets to the basket and draws fouls, and Anderson should be a solid point guard. Add in Krikke and King and......maybe this team gels just in time for the conference tourney.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on November 04, 2021, 08:02:19 PM
Quote from: vu72 on November 04, 2021, 07:58:32 PMQuote from: VUGrad1314 on November 04, 2021, 07:53:08 PMEven so this is a horrible sign of things to come I would think. If we're as good as we thought we were we should be winning these games. I'm not expecting much this season after these performances.
I think you are very wrong. We got like 7 points and they got something like 25 from their bench. That all changes when Ben and Barrett get back and Eron goes to the bench, where he belongs. Kithier, Anderson and Taylor are the real deal.
If you say so. This team looks like it has bottom dwelling Thursday team written all over it. Please go out and prove me wrong Beacons but this is such a low point as a fan. It's just one disappointment after another and it's hard to stay hopeful at this point. It's to the point where I almost expect to lose and am pleasantly surprised when we don't. It's sad. I don't want to feel this way. I want to be proud of my team again and feel like we were going to win no matter who we were up against. I miss those days. Will they ever come again?
Not as long as......................(you know the rest)
Points in the paint. Valpo 16, Flagler 40
Fast break points. Valpo 0, Flagler 10
Points off turnovers. Valpo 9, Flagler 20
2nd chance points. Valpo 8, Flagler 10
Bench points Valpo 7, Flagler 28
Where was the defense after the final media timeout? Those were veteran players out there. Our most intense defensive player is a Freshman non-scholarship player. That is sad! Matt award minutes based on defense and you will get better results. I honestly don't think it will ever happen.
I was able to get the game after all and I walked away with the same question.
We have the talent. I just don't understand the offense. Can anyone explain it to me? Not sure the players like it either, which would explain a lot. Is it too late to put in something more structured and more plays? This isn't working.
The other team ran a nice Princeton style offense that is typically very successful. And #4 (Flagler) could be one of the best players we face all year. He was great.
My top 5 thoughts after last night:
1. I am encouraged that we played significantly better last night against a much better opponent.
2. I am inspired by the gorgeous sunrise earlier this morning over the vale of paradise.
3. I am excited about the start of the 2021-22 season next Tuesday night.
4. I am eager to see how much better we are going to be when we add Ben, Kobe, and Connor to the mix.
5. I am grateful to have this outstanding group of young men represent us.
It is a great time to be alive, and an even better time to be a Valpo fan!
Everyone's opinions are justified.
Yes, our offense still looks bad. Lottich clearly isn't Bryce. He needs to hand off the duties of creating an offense to an assistant coach or something. I think our defenseive intensity will get better as the season goes on because I do feel Lottich has proven he can get the defense in order.
Krikke and King are going to help a lot. Clearly we win this game by 10+ with them in the lineup. I'm not so sure on Barrett outside being a spot up shooter, but maybe he surprises me and is a key contributor.
I'm shocked that the freshman out of Oklahoma isn't seeing any minutes... We sure he doesn't have some nagging injuries? Just not ready yet? I thought he might be a starter based on the hype.
Player Development:
Edwards has taken a big step from last year, so give credit to player development at least.
Definitely a mix of good and bad takeaways. I will reserve my harshest critcisms for the MVC season when we are at full strength and have played together for a while.
As long as the VU "Offense" is four guys standing around the perimeter with a post player setting a weak-ass ball screen at the top of the key - every possession - this team is going no where.
And I don't necessarily think it's the fault of the guys on the floor.
Oh, and the defense sucks as well.
Whatever the over-under was on Paul and Todd's podcast for wins, give me the under.
Holy overreaction Batman!!!
We lost to a team likely to be favored to win the D2 national championship. They have four starters back who have played, what, 200 games together. We lose by 2 with out a likely all conference player and a key contributor. Oh, and our guys, have played TWO games together.
Get a grip.
ummm, NW Missouri State is a better team than Flagler.
Our bench against Flagler has a COMBINED 127 minutes of college experience. I think everybody needs to relax over the bench play and our depth right now. The bench was 3 freshmen, Hedstrom, who has barely played a college game, and Emil, who hadn't even had a full practice in 1.5 years. Chances are, at full strength, most of those guys wont be seeing the court. With Gordon back on the bench with the return of Krikke, King becoming eligible, and Barrett getting healthy, our bench will have over 3500 minutes of experience from those 3 players alone. And all three are scoring threats off the bench. Barrett, as a freshmen, averaged 7 points a game. Our entire bench through 2 exhibitions has averaged 5.5. He will make a difference. Gordon wont shoot 0/9 from three for very long. Everybody was expecting it to take some time for the team to mesh, but now that that time is being taken, the season is deemed over and we mine as well buy our Thursday Night tickets now?
There's lots of talent here -- pretty miraculous assemblage after the spring exodus and losing JFL earlier -- but obviously there are kinks to be worked out.
And it could be just a couple of early clunker games. For example, Taylor shot only 7 for 23 vs. competition he excelled against while playing for D2 Winona State. I'm sure he's better than that.
Hey, we almost won. Kinda like what we've seen in the past few years. We did win eight Division 1 games last year people. Don't be so negative. And sometimes your eyes are lying. Good grief, I'm tired of the negative comments. It's sunny outside you negative Nellies.