I think we're headed in the right direction but can we take down Drake? I watched Drake against North Texas which was a great game and Drake lost by 3, UNT out hustled them but idk if our guys have that for 40 minutes. Two very competitive games against them last year one of which we dominated. Line started at Valpo +14.5 and has moved to +13.5, little to no respect from Vegas but I think we'll cover. +625 on the money line. Eron Gordon gets back at it and hits 4 3s(Why is he shooting soooo badly) and we keep it close!
Drake 72
Valpo 64
I can't imagine any pressure being on us so a loose and nearly healthy and complete team could easily outperform the home bunch. That doesn't guarantee a win but I expect us to play well! :thumbsup:
KenPom Rank
Valpo offensive efficiency 249
Drake offensive efficiency 59
Valpo defensive efficiency 193
Drake defensive efficiency 73
Other Stats
Drake Eff FG% better
Valpo turns ball over slightly less than Drake
Drake kills us in offensive rebounding Valpo 355 of 358 teams. Drake 92
Drake gets to the line better than Valpo
Drake is a better shot blocking team
We are slightly better ball thiefs than Drake
Valpo Prime Time :popcorn:
Game is on ESPNU!!!!!
Finally I get to see the Beacons play on the big screen!!!
Quote from: Just Sayin on December 02, 2021, 02:08:22 PMValpo offensive efficiency 249
Drake offensive efficiency 59
Valpo defensive efficiency 193
Drake defensive efficiency 73
Obviously we have no chance so obviously we do.
A few weeks ago a3uge and I touched on the question of how much (in minutes) and how well Kithier and Krikke can perform on the floor together. It is already apparent that either 4 guard and or good 3 point shooting stretch 4's could be a defense or foul problem for keeping both on the floor for extended minutes. Drake fits that same Tulane mold only better. If they can both defend and rebound well while avoiding big foul trouble then we have a chance. Even when King is ready Thomas and Ben will have to shine as a unit for this team to reach our preseason expectations.
As a 43 year old with 3 kids under 14 I believe 8:00pm starts are against my Constitutional rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of sleep.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on December 02, 2021, 07:38:17 PM
As a 43 year old with 3 kids under 14 I believe 8:00pm starts are against my Constitutional rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of sleep.
It's a 9pm start on the East Coast! :o
Announcer: Brodie put Krikke in the spin cycle. :rotfl: :rotfl:
These first 4 minutes are the best we've looked all season IMO. Moving the ball , Solid D! 36 more minutes of this and it'll be competitive!
Giving up offensive rebounds
Bad subs by Lottich
End of game / End of half execution very poor again. A staple of the Lottich era.
The good: we're putting up a fight! We're switching up defenses.
The bad: Rebounding.
The ugly: defending the 3 point shot.
Quote from: mj on December 02, 2021, 08:44:31 PM
The good: we're putting up a fight! We're switching up defenses.
The bad: Rebounding.
The ugly: defending the 3 point shot.
Very Good: We are not chuckin up 1 million 3's. We are actually for the most part trying to get to the basket and shooting a good % because of it.
The word "Ugly" doesn't describe it well enough: "Defending" the 3 point line. We are sooooo bad at it. I put "defending" in quotes because I'm not sure you can call what we do defense. The weird part, I think we are doing pretty good at the other areas of our defense. Very strange.
Taylor and Gordon have to have their minutes reduced. Both nice role players but not guys you can count on down the stretch.
Gordon definitely should have minutes reduced , Taylor is a different player and I like him
In the game , much mor athletic
Taylor is not a go to guy. Inconsistent shooting and sometimes out of control.
Good lord, what is up with Gordon this year? Get them to miss another 1-and-1, down by 4 with 30 seconds left, and then you throw a pansy pass from midcourt that even a guy with average speed would steal? WTF...
Well we gagged that one up. Every time we had a chance to make it close in the second half we either blew the shot, missed the front end of a one and one or turned it over. As well as we played at times that half when it counted we didn't have it. I hope King is a clutch player cause we sure need one.
Should have won tonight. Anderson missed the 3 that would have cut it to 3. Missing the front end of a 1 and 1 (twice).
I'll give kudos to Lottich for switching up the defense. Nice to see some coaching for a change.
I'm really getting frustrated that some of our older players don't know how to properly pass as basketball. Until we panacked in the last 5 minutes, our handling of the ball was pretty good, but we literally handed Drake the victory at the end with turnovers and missed free throws.
I don't know how to process this game. Obviously I'm pissed we lost, but there were some really good offensive and defensive sets tonight. I will say this, if Sheldon isn't frontrunner right now for MVC defensive player of the year, I don't know who is. He just makes stops and locks guys down.
Drake is a very good team. Not like we lost to a chump team. Talent level edge to Valpo. Execution Drake. This is a game that came down to little things, a few decisions in closing out the first and second half, closing out on shooters better. Our turnovers will be way down this year with the ball in Anderson's hands a lot. The key will be getting production from Connor and Young/developing bench. looks like a 7 man rotation tonight. I think Valpo's execution/mistakes are correctable this season. As we saw in night one of the valley. Anyone is beatable!
Coaching was actually really good tonight. We were hurt by player execution. Only real complaint i have is that Gordon continues to receive minutes. I hope Kobe King changes all that.
"we should have won" is not an accurate statement. It should have been a nailbiter though.
The stretch that changed everything (between the 3 and 5 minute marks) :
2 missed front ends of 1 and 1's
Gordon drives to the basket for offensive foul
Krikke wide wide wide open 3 misses
With 3 minutes to go we should have been leading by 2, tied, or down by 2 depending on how those 4 things played out. Instead I think we were down by 6. We simply did not execute.
Even then we still got back into it at the end of the game and we proceeded to miss more shots and another careless turnover.
Progress is being made, but we need to execute. Defense was really good inside the arc for the most part, need to extend that beyond the arc.
This was on the road at the pre-season favortie playing with their backs against the wall after 3 dissapointing games in a row. Drake is DEEP and talented. We were supposed to lose this game.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on December 02, 2021, 09:33:05 PMTaylor and Gordon have to have their minutes reduced.
About 1/3 of the minutes King gets will come from Taylor and most of the rest (nearly 2/3) from Gordon. This should improve the defense.
Quote from: Just Sayin on December 02, 2021, 09:42:11 PM
Taylor is not a go to guy. Inconsistent shooting and sometimes out of control.
Agree! I don't want Talyor handling the ball with the game on the line unless he is the wide open shot. Krikke aside I'm thinking that every crunch time will have King, Anderson and Edwards as our go to players and quite possibly in that nearly interchangeable order.
Isn't it a shame we can't afford to put a 7-footer in a game against a team that is good at getting offensive rebounds?
Quote from: justducky on December 02, 2021, 03:48:49 PMA few weeks ago a3uge and I touched on the question of how much (in minutes) and how well Kithier and Krikke can perform on the floor together. It is already apparent that either 4 guard and or good 3 point shooting stretch 4's could be a defense or foul problem for keeping both on the floor for extended minutes.
29 minutes each for Kithier and Krikke. That means they were on the floor together for roughly 18+ minutes. I can't remember offensive advantages for easy buckets directly coming from their combination efforts but I might have missed something. Meanwhile Ben covering out to the 3 line has some debatable level of defensive disadvantage. If their joint offense can learn to thrive then we might need to rely on playing some zone on a regular basis. On the other hand I can't picture how King, Krikke and Kithier will interact in the half court offense together??? Lots of questions and bugs still in the system but I am anxious to see them sorted out.
Under the radar: KenPom numbers
While our record has not improved all that much, our numbers of the NET actual offensive and defensive efficiency is rising from rank 256 just a few days ago to 225 as of yesterday's loss. Hmm. Over 1450 Div1 games have been played to date by 358 teams being ranked in comparison to each other and Valpo is creeping up into the right direction. This is good news despite the losses. When King suits up, the numbers should get even better. We should be able to compete and beat the top teams in the MVC given some good coaching who should be able to put the pieces together with the talent we have.
Four out of 5 starters for Drake are from NWIndiana or Calumet City. We need to recruit our turf.
Drake is not a world beater and Valpo had opportunities to win. Bench play was overall lacking.
Krikke played hard last night
Isn't it unfortunate that we're coming away feeling pretty good about a game where we were never really ahead after the first eight minutes? Krikke is the real deal, but past that, there just isn't all that much on this team.
Quote from: AlaskaCrusader19 on December 03, 2021, 08:14:50 AM
Isn't it unfortunate that we're coming away feeling pretty good about a game where we were never really ahead after the first eight minutes? Krikke is the real deal, but past that, there just isn't all that much on this team.
Not sure what team you are talking about, surely not Valpo. This team has a TON of talent and lost to the league favorite at their place in a very hard fought game. We missed some threes that would have been the difference. Anderson is the real deal but needs to score which he certainly can do. He is playing kinda like he is still playing at Wisconsin where his role was to not make mistakes and give the ball to other players. Kithier was just OK last night but Taylor really showed some athleticism.
I think this team still needs time to gel as a unit and when Kobe is inserted into the lineup and Eron Gordon takes a seat, it will be very hard to double anyone.
I'm waiting for Taylor to settle in. He must have been the go-to guy at Winona where he was averaging over twenty points per game. I know the competition is better in Div 1, but I expect much more from him in the games to come. We've seen flashes of what that might be.
I was actually pretty pleased with the game. Drake is tough.
We didn't defend the 3 great, but I thought we improved that towards the end of the game a bit. Bad passes by Gordon and Deaveiro at the end were really frustrating and ruined any chance we had at a come back. Also felt like Krikke didn't get fed the ball as much towards the end when we could have used some clutch baskets, but happy to see Anderson and Edwards hit some big shots in those moments.
Still not a fan of the rotations and would love to see some more playing time from guys like Young and Barrett.
Could have been a game we won, but if we can play like that we win the rest in December.
Imagine if Eron Gordon were averaging 13 PPG instead of 2 PPG. Imagine if Eron Gordon were shooting 43% instead of 27%. Now imagine Kobe King.
Honestly, Drake is OK but I was not overwhelmed.I think the Valley is up for grabs.
Quote from: humbleopinion on December 03, 2021, 09:38:48 AM
I'm waiting for Taylor to settle in. He must have been the go-to guy at Winona where he was averaging over twenty points per game. I know the competition is better in Div 1, but I expect much more from him in the games to come. We've seen flashes of what that might be.
My thinking ------ He will remain a starter but drop to less than 27 minutes per game. Depending on the lineup (and 3 point situations) he will rarely be higher than our 3'rd option and could occasionally be the 5'th.
Quote from: vu72 on December 03, 2021, 08:40:19 AMAnderson is the real deal but needs to score which he certainly can do. He is playing kinda like he is still playing at Wisconsin where his role was to not make mistakes and give the ball to other players.
King thinking aside, Trevor is clearly our most important addition. He is an experienced floor general who can also score. As we settle in at full strength he should captain us toward Keith Carter like win-loss numbers.
Quote from: vu72 on December 03, 2021, 08:40:19 AMKithier was just OK last night
What happened to our Kithier vs Cory Johnson comparisons? Suddenly the ball is rarely reaching his hands as Krikke initiates all the inside play. Just maybe those two shouldn't spend that much time on the floor together especially when King suits up?
Will we lose another game in December?
Several comments referred to the fact that once Krikke, Kithier, Anderson and King(?) team start getting used to playing together this team should be very much improved and I totally agree. Last night's game play was much improved both offensively and defensively. With the exception of some guarding against the 3, the defense was very good. While we could have won this game, it showed that The Valley is wide open and very competitive this year.
Quote from: SanityLost17 on December 02, 2021, 10:23:43 PM
Coaching was actually really good tonight. We were hurt by player execution. Only real complaint i have is that Gordon continues to receive minutes. I hope Kobe King changes all that.
"we should have won" is not an accurate statement. It should have been a nailbiter though.
The stretch that changed everything (between the 3 and 5 minute marks) :
2 missed front ends of 1 and 1's
Gordon drives to the basket for offensive foul
Krikke wide wide wide open 3 misses
With 3 minutes to go we should have been leading by 2, tied, or down by 2 depending on how those 4 things played out. Instead I think we were down by 6. We simply did not execute.
Even then we still got back into it at the end of the game and we proceeded to miss more shots and another careless turnover.
Progress is being made, but we need to execute. Defense was really good inside the arc for the most part, need to extend that beyond the arc.
This was on the road at the pre-season favortie playing with their backs against the wall after 3 dissapointing games in a row. Drake is DEEP and talented. We were supposed to lose this game.
Last night after the game I came on the forum and thought I would have to say that it was not the coaching that let us down, but player execution, but to my surprise I found that SanityLost17 had already done just that. The team was put into a position to win this game it just did not properly execute certain situations. It still appears to me that we don't yet have a feel for the tendencies of the fellow players. By that I mean, where are they going to cut to, what do they normally do, where to they want the pass to be thrown to, and other things that come with playing together. There just still seems to be some hesitancy, especially among certain players.
I agree that it appears the team chemistry in regards to truly knowing each other's game is not quite there yet. and let's not forget that not only are we building that chemistry with each other we have multiple transfers who had that time with other teams that they probably have to unlearn. I think that's why individually we can see the talent but the flow is still a struggle. Hence the turnovers/rebounds. Both of which require more awareness of where your teammates are going to be and how/when they shoot.
In the radio postgame, Luke Gore pointed out some specific plays in both halves where we failed to execute that cost us dearly. In the 1st half we failed to close out on 4 3-point attempts, and they scored on all 4. He noted that you cannot give a good 3-point shooter enough time to both turn and square up his feet, but that's what we did. He said those 4 miscues were the difference between an 8-point halftime deficit and leading going into the locker room. Going down the stretch, he pointed to the play where Darius missed Sheldon on a 2 on 1 break and threw the ball out of bounds. He said Darius was looking to set Sheldon for a 3, when he should have held onto the ball and fed a streaking Sheldon closer to the basket for a layup. That was a crucial play at a crucial time. He also mentioned the misses on the front half of 2 1-and-1's down the stretch costing potentially 4 points. He noted that all the effort and patience to draw fouls throughout the half to get in the bonus doesn't do any good if you can't capitalize. He said (or Todd said) the game was there for the taking.
At this point in their freshmen seasons I am much more impressed with DeAveiro than I was with Buggs or Lexus Williams. Sons of coaches bring insights that others have to learn. Right now Darius has 1 more defensive rebound than Kevin Taylor in about 1/2 the minutes played. Much of that is from watching the shot trajectory and anticipating where the missed shot will land. He might maintain or even slightly gain in minutes when King is fully integrated. I can't say that for anybody else.
Assuming a healthy 8 to 9 player rotation for Valley play means that Matt needs to give Barrett, Young, Hedstrom and Woodyard all the minutes he can find during December. Even if that costs us with an extra Dec loss it should be worth it. :thumbsup:
The comments about rebounding are correct in terms of the team being consistently outrebounded particularly on the defensive boards however I'm not sure the reason is correct. Rebounding is about quickness in leaping and positioning. The team up front isn't quick a foot nor does it possess guys who can get off the ground. Kithier is great at positioning. He just has issues when a guy who's quicker and has more hops goes right around him and you can say similar things about Krikke. Bigger guys would actually make this situation worse IMHO.
One of the killer turnovers near the end of the game was when Taylor (I think it was him) was crossing half-court and threw a pass near the baseline to Young which was picked off by Drake coach's son Tucker DeVries. Just who was at fault here?
It looked like a lazy pass but I'm not sure. Surely Taylor should have seen how close Tucker was to Young.
However, Young surely should have seen how close Tucker was to him and he could have run to the ball rather than waiting for it while Tucker cut off the pass and stole it.
A teaching moment? They like to watch the tapes. I wonder if they will say anything to either player.
Quote from: Just Sayin on December 03, 2021, 02:16:50 PM
One of the killer turnovers near the end of the game was when Taylor (I think it was him) was crossing half-court and threw a pass near the baseline to Young which was picked off by Drake coach's son Tucker DeVries. Just who was at fault here?
It looked like a lazy pass but I'm not sure. Surely Taylor should have seen how close Tucker was to Young.
However, Young surely should have seen how close Tucker was to him and he could have run to the ball rather than waiting for it while Tucker cut off the pass and stole it.
A teaching moment? They like to watch the tapes. I wonder if they will say anything to either player.
That was Gordon, a vet, making a really crappy pass
I've seen it mentioned a couple times that Gordon threw it away with :35 left, I just went back and watched, because I was almost convinced that I remembered it wrong, and it was definitely Taylor on that turnover.
Quote from: chef on December 03, 2021, 08:21:05 PM
I've seen it mentioned a couple times that Gordon threw it away with :35 left, I just went back and watched, because I was almost convinced that I remembered it wrong, and it was definitely Taylor on that turnover.
Fair enough, I am apparently misremembering. Taylor, a vet, made a really crappy pass :)