Looking forward to going today's game. Western Michigan maybe a bigger challenge than I originally thought. They almost beat Minnesota last week. Here's hoping that we don't come out flat like did against Toledo.
I was a bit surprised to see Valpo favored. Let's get in the win column!
Hoping for the best. Hopefully we'll get off to a better start and come prepared this time. Hopefully we'll at least be competitive in this one and have enough to pull out the win at home. That's about all I've got right now unfortunately. Just hopeful platitudes until I see a definitive reason for optimism.
line has moved to -5. Minnesota went 9-23 from the free throw line against the Broncs. Curious what the crowd will be like today. Over or under 2,500?
Quote from: AB on November 13, 2022, 02:21:09 PMCurious what the crowd will be like today. Over or under 2,500?
Under. Nobody seems interested! I would rather fall asleep in a tree stand this afternoon than fall asleep in a mostly empty ARC. More likely that a deer will wake me up than a Lotich coached basketball team!
Quote from: justducky on November 13, 2022, 02:36:41 PM
Quote from: AB on November 13, 2022, 02:21:09 PMCurious what the crowd will be like today. Over or under 2,500?
Under. Nobody seems interested! I would rather fall asleep in a tree stand this afternoon than fall asleep in a mostly empty ARC. More likely that a deer will wake me up than a Lotich coached basketball team!
Well under...no excitement generated (yet) for this team.
There is nothing going on with this team to generate excitement. Last year they had Tic Tok videos, etc. There was an excitement about the potential. The team was excited about the potential. Not sure there is a leader on this team to take them on his back and make them believe. I would be happy to be proven wrong. I am rooting for this team but I am not a Lottich fan.
There is a lot to like about this team, based what I am seeing today!
How great was it to see Connor Barrett hit that three from the corner. If he can get back to the stroke he had as a freshman that really helps our bench. Valpo up 13, 35 to 22.
Awesome performance tonight! That's more like it. King, Krikke and DeAveiro... Fantastic stuff.
Good win today. Glad to see us bounce back. WMU won't be a pushover for their MAC opponents. Great game from King and Krikke.
Now that was a pleasure to watch. Cut down the turnovers. Played with poise. Got the ball to the two guys who were red hot in the right spots. Excellent point guard play. Now if only Krikke could just hit his first 3 to gain some confidence and Darius fix his free throw shooting. Still, an encouraging performance.
I love watching Kobe. It was good to see others stepping it up. Maybe there is hope after all.
It is pretty hysterical to read about the "rather fall asleep in a treehouse" stuff just a few posts above and how that quickly changed for those of us who were there, or in my case, watched from afar. I saw a Valpo team of old, got a head, let it slip near the end of the first half and then closed it out with gusto! We have a lot of very encouraging pieces and we still aren't at full strength. 15 assists and 2 turnovers from our points! And our two stars shown very brightly. Great performance against a team that will win a lot of games. :clap: :clap: :clap:
Glad to see this team bounce back in a big way. Still without 3 players that are suppose to be regular contributors.
Kobe needs to be aggressive and involved in the offense every game. If he and Krikke can just play at 3/4 of the way they did tonight every game then we should be able to compete nightly.
Green is surprising me with his athleticism, defense and length. Knew he was brought in as a shooter but his defense has really surprised me.
Always nice to post a "W" and good for the team; however, I'm not getting sucked into even the slightest of false hopes this year. Western Michigan is ranked #253 in the Pomeroy ratings. Our upcoming two opponents are at the bottom of the ratings (Chicago St. at #360 and Incarnate Word at #358). I will wait to see if Valpo can get a "W" against the next five (Samford at #155, South Dakota St. at #122, James Madison at #93, Belmont at #136, or Murray St. at #135). I want to witness wins against teams in the top 50% before I even think about becoming enthusiastic.
Well then... That's a night and day difference... Western Michigan has the looks of a potentially solid team judging from their near victory over Minnesota so this could be something. We're going to learn a lot about this team over the next 3-4 games and beyond. They better win the next two. After that, there's plenty of decent competition on the schedule that will tell us a lot about what we have. If we can string together some wins and be competitive throughout, my optimism will grow.
Encouraging performance, but yes Broncs will finish in the bottom half of the MAC. They have two nice scores, absolutely no post play and not a good defensive team. Our point guard play was excellent, but the defense was not good with our bigs opening up on ice. Norman is a difficult player to guard but our bigs were slow to rotate. Green does play good Defense. Edwards, Green and DeAvario play under control. DeAvario is reminding me of the Drake point guard with out a jump shot. Will be interesting to see who gets more playing time moving forward, Darious or Preston? maintaining defensive intensity this season when we go through cold stretches on offense will be key.
1680 is such a sad attendance number but I totally get it. If this is the start of Valpo getting hot and winning a bunch of games that number will rise by the time we play our first MVC home game. If we can start by winning a few more in conference as well then we'll surely see that number rise dramatically. The fanbase just needs a reason to believe. Maybe this is the start we need but for right now the best we have is cautious optimism. Too many ifs in this post and too many unknowns with only two data points that are in no way similar to each other this season to expect anything. I know this "Wait and see" attitude is a much different tenor than my posts in the Toledo thread and I'm sorry that my mind is biased towards negativity (because I was fully ready to say Same Ol' Lottich Era Valpo after Toledo) but I'm sure it's hard to blame anyone who is in this same frame of mind RE: the state of the program right now. I don't like being in this mindset either. Just like any other Valpo fan, I want to believe.
I like having 15 fouls at C, going into conference play. We're going to need it against guys like Broadie (Drake), Mast (Bradley), and Phyfe (UNI). I was glad to see that Prim (MoSt) finally graduated, when looking to see which of the beefy bigs were still on MVC rosters!
Good overall game, and yes, very encouraging to see Barrett make his first 3. Green has freakish athletic ability. It looks like he has springs in his legs, at times. Good to see Darius have a solid game overall, and Krikke/King show that they can be a formidable 1-2. Let's keep at it with the next few games, which should be more opportunities to gain confidence.
I did not see the game, but this looks like it was a much better performance. 18 assists versus 8 turnovers with 50 percent from the floor shows good offensive execution. I hope that is a sign of good things to come.
Quote from: valpopal on November 13, 2022, 07:20:13 PM
Always nice to post a "W" and good for the team; however, I'm not getting sucked into even the slightest of false hopes this year. Western Michigan is ranked #253 in the Pomeroy ratings. Our upcoming two opponents are at the bottom of the ratings (Chicago St. at #360 and Incarnate Word at #358). I will wait to see if Valpo can get a "W" against the next five (Samford at #155, South Dakota St. at #122, James Madison at #93, Belmont at #136, or Murray St. at #135). I want to witness wins against teams in the top 50% before I even think about becoming enthusiastic.
I wouldn't get too hung up on the KenPom rankings at this time of the year. There is no way logically or statistically that Murray St. should be ranked #135, they have basically a whole new team that have limited experience running any of Prohm's offense or sets. Lost to SLU by 23 and then beat an NAIA team by 37. I think our two games match up favorably with what Murray has done so far. KenPom has 6 MVC teams ranked between 131-137, once again logically and statistically very improbable. Not sure what formula he is using that would make that happen. Everyone knows that most of the rankings at this time of the year are either based off of last year or just educated guesses. KenPom uses offensive and defensive efficiency ratings and tempo rating, but since there really is little data yet for this year.....
Good to see King aggressive and Daverio put the ball up a few times (excepting the FT shooting). Krikke looks like a pencil him in for 20-25 per night guy.
Good performance. Not sure how good Western Michigan will be. Enjoyed up tempo type of game. 20 fast break points and 46 points in the paint is impressive. Pushing the ball does not allow defense to set and provide help. Main concern is performance from the three big men 2 points and 13 rebounds and outside guard shooting. Time will tell as team improves. Several games to work on this before Eastern trip.
Quote from: FWalum on November 13, 2022, 11:17:17 PM
Quote from: valpopal on November 13, 2022, 07:20:13 PM
Always nice to post a "W" and good for the team; however, I'm not getting sucked into even the slightest of false hopes this year. Western Michigan is ranked #253 in the Pomeroy ratings. Our upcoming two opponents are at the bottom of the ratings (Chicago St. at #360 and Incarnate Word at #358). I will wait to see if Valpo can get a "W" against the next five (Samford at #155, South Dakota St. at #122, James Madison at #93, Belmont at #136, or Murray St. at #135). I want to witness wins against teams in the top 50% before I even think about becoming enthusiastic.
I wouldn't get too hung up on the KenPom rankings at this time of the year. There is no way logically or statistically that Murray St. should be ranked #135, they have basically a whole new team that have limited experience running any of Prohm's offense or sets. Lost to SLU by 23 and then beat an NAIA team by 37. I think our two games match up favorably with what Murray has done so far. KenPom has 6 MVC teams ranked between 131-137, once again logically and statistically very improbable. Not sure what formula he is using that would make that happen. Everyone knows that most of the rankings at this time of the year are either based off of last year or just educated guesses. KenPom uses offensive and defensive efficiency ratings and tempo rating, but since there really is little data yet for this year.....
I realize the Pomeroy ratings will adjust as the season progresses, but it's what we have and just an example that gives an approximate idea of relative strength. In any case, despite adjustments as the season advances, Western Michigan, Chicago State, and Incarnate Word are not going to be teams in the top 50% by the end of the year. The others could be. Therefore, I will wait to see Valpo's success against stronger teams rated in the upper half when they are played as the rankings settle before getting too enthusiastic.
Quote from: vu72 on November 13, 2022, 06:57:55 PM15 assists and 2 turnovers from our points!
I was very high on both Preston and Darius last year (in that order) and their talents along with Nick Edwards should make point guard minutes very hard to find. Defensive match ups and scoring consistency should mainly dictate floor time because I'm not yet picturing much benefit from having any 2 playing lengthy minutes together. Maybe that could change? Thoughts?
Quote from: valpotx on November 13, 2022, 08:21:00 PMI like having 15 fouls at C, going into conference play. We're going to need it against guys like Broadie (Drake), Mast (Bradley), and Phyfe (UNI).
Is this trio of centers TODAY better than the Capo, Moussa, and young Vashil trio from a decade past? That bunch also gave us 15 fouls and they frequently used most or all of them without giving us many points. I think I would be happier if one of them really stepped forward and claimed the job!
Quote from: vu72 on November 13, 2022, 06:57:55 PMAnd our two stars shown very brightly.
Agree so we should be solid at the point, marginal at center with 2 stars amoung the other 3 positions. Does Matt have enough filler pieces at the 2,3 and 4 to turn this bunch into a winner?
Quote from: valpopal on November 14, 2022, 09:12:04 AMI realize the Pomeroy ratings will adjust as the season progresses, but it's what we have and just an example that gives an approximate idea of relative strength. In any case, despite adjustments as the season advances, Western Michigan, Chicago State, and Incarnate Word are not going to be teams in the top 50% by the end of the year. The others could be. Therefore, I will wait to see Valpo's success against stronger teams rated in the upper half when they are played as the rankings settle before getting too enthusiastic.
I get what you are saying and you are most likely correct. Western Michigan has the opportunity to move up, but probably not above the 180 threshold of the top 50%, time will tell. If we look at how they performed at Minnesota I think they probably feel like they did not play very well on defense, allowing us to score 20 points more than the Gophers. Kobe going off for the early 15 points really shook them up. Their coach coming from the B1G probably got them fired up against Minnesota and then playing us was a big letdown, maybe in their minds an expected win. I wouldn't want to be at their practice today.
Quote from: justducky on November 14, 2022, 10:41:52 AM
Quote from: vu72 on November 13, 2022, 06:57:55 PM15 assists and 2 turnovers from our points!
I was very high on both Preston and Darius last year (in that order) and their talents along with Nick Edwards should make point guard minutes very hard to find. Defensive match ups and scoring consistency should mainly dictate floor time because I'm not yet picturing much benefit from having any 2 playing lengthy minutes together. Maybe that could change? Thoughts?
Quote from: valpotx on November 13, 2022, 08:21:00 PMI like having 15 fouls at C, going into conference play. We're going to need it against guys like Broadie (Drake), Mast (Bradley), and Phyfe (UNI).
Is this trio of centers TODAY better than the Capo, Moussa, and young Vashil trio from a decade past? That bunch also gave us 15 fouls and they frequently used most or all of them without giving us many points. I think I would be happier if one of them really stepped forward and claimed the job!
Quote from: vu72 on November 13, 2022, 06:57:55 PMAnd our two stars shown very brightly.
Agree so we should be solid at the point, marginal at center with 2 stars amoung the other 3 positions. Does Matt have enough filler pieces at the 2,3 and 4 to turn this bunch into a winner?
I think it is easy to forget the players that did not play last night. I hope this is not a foreshadowing of the rest of an injury-riddled season.
- Preston Ruedinger - Has anything been said about when he might return? If he is out for an extended time he may find it difficult to get significant minutes with the way DeAveiro and Edwards played last night.
- Cam Palesse - I was surprised that he was in street clothes last night. When and what did he injure?
- Ibra Bayu - The mystery man. Other than the ridiculously athletic highlights from a couple of years ago, I have no idea when he might be able to play. Is he practicing at all? Todd thinks he might even start by the new year if I remember correctly from the over under Victory Bell podcast.
Quote from: justducky on November 14, 2022, 10:41:52 AMAnd our two stars shown very brightly.
Agree so we should be solid at the point, marginal at center with 2 stars amoung the other 3 positions. Does Matt have enough filler pieces at the 2,3 and 4 to turn this bunch into a winner?
Re
I really like what we are getting from Quinton. He is now 10 of 22 from the 3 for the season and if that keeps up he's in rock star category. I expect that between Max and Connor we will also get some shooting support and remember, Ibra is suppose to be a incredible athlete, if and when he returns to the court. Nothing was said about why Cam wasn't in uniform either.
FWalum wrote:
"I think it is easy to forget the players that did not play last night. I hope this is not a foreshadowing of the rest of an injury-riddled season.
Preston Ruedinger - Has anything been said about when he might return? If he is out for an extended time he may find it difficult to get significant minutes with the way DeAveiro and Edwards played last night.
Cam Palesse - I was surprised that he was in street clothes last night. When and what did he injure?
Ibra Bayu - The mystery man. Other than the ridiculously athletic highlights from a couple of years ago, I have no idea when he might be able to play. Is he practicing at all? Todd thinks he might even start by the new year if I remember correctly from the over under Victory Bell podcast."
Just an observation: I watched the post-game news conference, and I was reminded of a topic I mentioned in a post during September, the lack of coverage of VU sports by local media. During yesterday's presentation, I noticed another problem this loss of coverage has created. Paul was the only media person asking all the questions, as if it has become a personal interview. As far as I could tell, there weren't even any questions from a Torch reporter. Paul is great, knowledgeable, and he asks good questions. However, he can only ask so many before it gets uncomfortable, plus it can be awkward to ask about some subjects since he is a university employee. Additionally, some of the players may have been or currently might be students in his class, which can further complicate questioning. I sympathize with the position in which he finds himself. There was a time when other media had representatives at games who could ask questions in the post-game conferences as well. Without that local media coverage to provide variety, the discussions are limited by fewer perspectives (or just one) represented and less input from more objective outsiders.
Missed the game. Sounds like play was much improved. While Pomeroy is still adjusting, the Almanac has Western MI as 3rd from the bottom and playing for a spot in the conference tournament. Lamar Norman is a nice piece, but not much after that. Like others, waiting to see about these #s against a better opponent.
Quote from: elephtheria47 on November 14, 2022, 12:33:30 PM
Missed the game. Sounds like play was much improved. While Pomeroy is still adjusting, the Almanac has Western MI as 3rd from the bottom and playing for a spot in the conference tournament. Lamar Norman is a nice piece, but not much after that. Like others, waiting to see about these #s against a better opponent.
The preseason coaches poll had them 8th of 12 with Norman being named 1st team all conference.
https://getsomemaction.com/news/2022/10/25/mens-basketball-preseason-coaches-poll-all-mac-teams-announced.aspx
Quote from: valpopal on November 14, 2022, 12:07:58 PM
FWalum wrote:
"I think it is easy to forget the players that did not play last night. I hope this is not a foreshadowing of the rest of an injury-riddled season.
Preston Ruedinger - Has anything been said about when he might return? If he is out for an extended time he may find it difficult to get significant minutes with the way DeAveiro and Edwards played last night.
Cam Palesse - I was surprised that he was in street clothes last night. When and what did he injure?
Ibra Bayu - The mystery man. Other than the ridiculously athletic highlights from a couple of years ago, I have no idea when he might be able to play. Is he practicing at all? Todd thinks he might even start by the new year if I remember correctly from the over under Victory Bell podcast."
Just an observation: I watched the post-game news conference, and I was reminded of a topic I mentioned in a post during September, the lack of coverage of VU sports by local media. During yesterday's presentation, I noticed another problem this loss of coverage has created. Paul was the only media person asking all the questions, as if it has become a personal interview. As far as I could tell, there weren't even any questions from a Torch reporter. Paul is great, knowledgeable, and he asks good questions. However, he can only ask so many before it gets uncomfortable, plus it can be awkward to ask about some subjects since he is a university employee. Additionally, some of the players may have been or currently might be students in his class, which can further complicate questioning. I sympathize with the position in which he finds himself. There was a time when other media had representatives at games who could ask questions in the post-game conferences as well. Without that local media coverage to provide variety, the discussions are limited by fewer perspectives (or just one) represented and less input from more objective outsiders.
All good points here. Figured I'd chime in.
1) A complete misstep on my part to not ask about Cam. I had put on Twitter that he was out with a thumb injury, but who the hell is on Twitter anymore? He got hurt in the second half of the Toledo game. As for Preston, he went through some shootaround drills and is getting closer. Another thing I put on Twitter, but I have to remember that while I live on that hellscape of a site, very few others do. I had a note to ask about injuries in the presser (I generally make a few notes as the game goes on for questions). I wanted to ask Matt about the student support and he gave a pretty solid answer and I forgot about injuries. I'll definitely get to it for Chicago State. Me not asking about injuries has nothing to do with shielding medical information or anything along those lines. It was a simple misstep. Remember, I'm the guy who once camped outside the Valpo locker room for 90 minutes to see if Ryan Fazekas was going to play.
2) As the guy who runs a subscription-based website that covers Valparaiso athletics, I both love and hate the fact that no other media were at the game. I love it because I've got exclusive access and if you want the story and quotes from someone who was there, I guess I'm it. Yes, ValpoAthletics.com writes great recaps and the presser is there for you to watch, but I'd like to think I add value as a storyteller by tying it all together. On the other hand, being the only one asking questions is frustrating. No two people see the game the same way and having another person in there to ask questions helps me see the game through someone else's eyes.
As an alum and someone who has dedicated much of my life to living in Valpo, being around the school and the athletics programs, it is truly sad for me to see that the local media are going the other way. I can't, for the life of me, figure what else those papers would be covering on Sunday. It was a 4p start. Plenty of time for deadline. The home opener. Should be some interest. I guess not.
I get great joy out of covering Valpo athletics and I hope that comes through with TheVictoryBell.com (cheap plug if you aren't a subscriber. $5 a month or $49.99 for the whole year). Thanks to all that do subscribe.
Quote from: Old Timer on November 14, 2022, 08:58:54 AMGood performance. Not sure how good Western Michigan will be. Enjoyed up tempo type of game. 20 fast break points and 46 points in the paint is impressive. Pushing the ball does not allow defense to set and provide help. Main concern is performance from the three big men 2 points and 13 rebounds and outside guard shooting. Time will tell as team improves. Several games to work on this before Eastern trip.
I've seen or we've seen nothing from the big guys over a couple of seasons for two of them which would indicate much difference offensively. Points will have to come from elsewhere which makes having a point guard not even looking at the basket which we saw last year and in game 1 this year a bigger issue.
Vashil's best scoring year was his junior season when he average 6.9ppg, for his career 4.7ppg. Palm may not be as long as Vashil but appears to be very athletic, quick, and mobile. He needs to be able to handle the pick-and-roll a little better, but he could be a defensive force down low if he can stay out of trouble and not over commit. Edwards can score and will look to the basket so I think we could be alright, but who knows, we have only played two games.
Quote from: FWalum on November 14, 2022, 04:18:59 PMVashil's best scoring year was his junior season when he average 6.9ppg, for his career 4.7ppg. Palm may not be as long as Vashil but appears to be very athletic, quick, and mobile. He needs to be able to handle the pick-and-roll a little better, but he could be a defensive force down low if he can stay out of trouble and not over commit. Edwards can score and will look to the basket so I think we could be alright, but who knows, we have only played two games.
My mistake on the PG reference. Edwards looks like a guy who'll look for his shot. My reference was to DaVeiro in the preseason and game 1 and Reudinger in the preseason game who seem(ed) way too non committal to the basket. Tough to have two positions on the court which are non threats to shoot the ball.
DeAveiro definitely looked to shoot a lot more against Western Michigan and that threat lead to him dishing out 10 assists. When is the last time that we saw that? On top the fact he only had 1 TO.
FWIW, WMU did nearly knock off Minnesota, but the Gophers are without their best player and just got ran off their home floor by DePaul last night.
Quote from: JD24 on November 14, 2022, 08:26:08 PMMy mistake on the PG reference. Edwards looks like a guy who'll look for his shot. My reference was to DaVeiro in the preseason and game 1 and Reudinger in the preseason game who seem(ed) way too non committal to the basket. Tough to have two positions on the court which are non threats to shoot the ball.
Quote from: tjjvalpo on November 14, 2022, 09:57:49 PMDeAveiro definitely looked to shoot a lot more against Western Michigan and that threat lead to him dishing out 10 assists. When is the last time that we saw that? On top the fact he only had 1 TO.
I think JD24 was thinking about outside shooting. DeAveiro definitely was probing the driving lanes looking to get in the paint which produced some nice layups, but he is not yet an outside threat. I think that someone on the forum posted that the way DeAveiro was playing reminded them of Drake's Roman Penn. I agree, he was really keeping his dribble alive and probing weak spots of the defense which created a number of assist opportunities. Penn really does a great job of keeping that dribble going with his head up and seeing how the defense reacts. IMO we have not really had a point guard that has had that skill since Keith Carter and now it seems that DeAveiro and Edwards might both have that skill set.
Just to refresh my and our memories I looked a few things up.
Connor Barrett shot 31-78 for 39.7% from 3 as a freshman? My mind really garbled that memory and it must be because he shot so poorly last (injury) season.
Point Play #1 Nick Edwards was injured much of last season but had 87 assists vs 35 turnovers in 2020-21. I couldn't find his 3 point shooting % from Glenville St but he can score and distribute. #2 Preston Ruedinger was 32-8 assists to turnovers 2021-22. It just doesn't get any better than that. He also shot reluctantly but better than I thought from 3 where he came in at 27.7% with 13-47 shooting. He should be able to play more at the 2 position if he can get his 3 point shooting up to 32%? #3 Darius DeAveiro had 50 assists vs 24 turnovers in 21-22. :thumbsup: but only shot 21% from 3. With this trio at point our turnovers should remain low and our assists very high both at the Valley and national levels.