The Valparaiso Beacons Fan Zone Forum

Valpo Sports => Valpo Basketball => Topic started by: humbleopinion on January 01, 2023, 08:34:04 AM

Title: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: humbleopinion on January 01, 2023, 08:34:04 AM
A step down in talent from Drake, and familiar baskets (I'm not counting on a strong showing in the stands). 

I have hopes of a victory.  Valpo 67, InSU 61.
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: talksalot on January 01, 2023, 08:58:29 AM
HO, I hope you are right... however, this InSt team did beat Drake (75-53 at home)...  The trees are vulnerable, with the three consecutive "Final Exam Week" losses to Southern Indiana, Duquesne and Northern Illinois...but they bounced back with the Valley destruction of Evansville 91-63.

The Vegas line is 6.5

Valpo did leapfrog the Aces in the rankings ... the RPIs this morning:  Valpo 317, Evansville 318...

I will agree with the crowd estimate... We're up against the Lions, Tigers (LSU vs Purdue) and Bears, Oh My.  and we have no pep band.  I'm guessing there will be a typically vocal contingent of InSt fans...

SO... let's play like TCU did yesterday... and pull out the upset W and start the new year right!









Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: justducky on January 01, 2023, 09:21:51 AM
I'm not counting on a great performance (unless ISU gives it) but I might show up anyway. Hoping to see a well played game!  :)
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: Just Sayin on January 01, 2023, 10:56:38 AM
Quote from: talksalot on January 01, 2023, 08:58:29 AM
HO, I hope you are right... however, this InSt team did beat Drake (75-53 at home)...  The trees are vulnerable, with the three consecutive "Final Exam Week" losses to Southern Indiana, Duquesne and Northern Illinois...but they bounced back with the Valley destruction of Evansville 91-63.

The Vegas line is 6.5

Valpo did leapfrog the Aces in the rankings ... the RPIs this morning:  Valpo 317, Evansville 318...

I will agree with the crowd estimate... We're up against the Lions, Tigers (LSU vs Purdue) and Bears, Oh My.  and we have no pep band.  I'm guessing there will be a typically vocal contingent of InSt fans...

SO... let's play like TCU did yesterday... and pull out the upset W and start the new year right!

https://bracketologists.com/compare/bradley-braves;drake-bulldogs;southern-illinois-salukis;missouri-state-bears;indiana-state-sycamores;belmont-bruins;murray-state-racers;valparaiso-beacons
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: tjjvalpo on January 01, 2023, 12:55:10 PM
I am among those that are choosing to stay home. I hope they win, but the thought of going to the game and being disappointed by another lose, it would have just make me feel like a wasted a whole afternoon.
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: VUSWIM08-12 on January 01, 2023, 01:01:40 PM
Probably will be high scoring , but do we have enough fire power?

Valpo 72
Trees 81
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: tiny707 on January 01, 2023, 01:38:32 PM
Interesting to see what a year two coach can do in MVC...10-4 record and 3-0 wins in MVC play.
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: VUSWIM08-12 on January 01, 2023, 01:38:59 PM
How are we 2/10 from 3 at HOME ! Did we max out lift this morning or what ? A couple have been too quick but WTF! WHY IS LOTTICH STILL OUR COACH. ABSOLUTELY DISGRACEFUL. We should be down more than 9...
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: mj on January 01, 2023, 01:43:15 PM
Indiana State has better fundamentals. It's obvious they play as a team. It also doesn't help that we can't shoot the ball.

Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: valpopal on January 01, 2023, 01:47:39 PM
Paul states it plainly: [tweet]1609635743806242818[/tweet]
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: AB on January 01, 2023, 01:48:06 PM
shots come and go. The game needs to be won on the defensive end. Once again, getting carved up with interior defense. Guy did great things at LMU, he's got a system that's working in year two at ISU. Too much standing around on offense. Need to take advantage of our height on the inside.
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: tiny707 on January 01, 2023, 01:51:48 PM
Appreciate PO being honest.
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: tjjvalpo on January 01, 2023, 02:02:51 PM
Our interior defensive being carved up is an understatement. They are 12 of 17 on layups. They have had different players cutting to the basket on almost every possession for easy baskets.
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: tiny707 on January 01, 2023, 02:07:30 PM
Can the color commentator working with Todd step in ASAP and coach?
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: valpotx on January 01, 2023, 02:12:26 PM
Wow, over 10 minutes of game time without a basket...
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: valpotx on January 01, 2023, 02:59:20 PM
Ben Krikke is this generation's Urule Igbavboa.  Had a decent/solid overall career, but his time will be remembered as a lull in Valpo basketball ability. 
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: valporun on January 01, 2023, 03:01:17 PM
Quote from: valpotx on January 01, 2023, 02:12:26 PM
Wow, over 10 minutes of game time without a basket...

More of the norm. Not only has this team quit on the coaching staff, not just Lottich, but all of it, THEY QUIT ON THEMSELVES!! They show ZERO leadership or tenacity. The "G" word can't even be attached to this team. The team is as bad as the coaching staff.
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: AB on January 01, 2023, 03:12:50 PM
This is going to be a long two months. Stating obvious, team looks lost, confidence effected and when we miss shots we stop playing hard. Illinois State, Evansville, UIC, Valpo have cemented themselves in the play in game. Indiana State is a nice turnaround story and they play well as a team, but they ain't the most talented team. They are beatable. We've not figured out how to use our mixed matched pieces and still have no answer when Krikke is doubled on the base line. He needs to dribble drive to the basket from the top of the key.
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: tjjvalpo on January 01, 2023, 03:21:11 PM
As far as the MVC tournament, actually seeds 5 thru 12 will be playing on Thursday. We were always going to have to play Thursday.

As for today's game, another pathetic performance. If the game against Drake gave some hope, that was dashed once again today. I made the right decision to stay home.
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: mj on January 01, 2023, 03:37:42 PM
I agree that Indiana State isn't the most talented team. But they get those most out of that talent.

I don't understand Valpo's rotations at all. I know that we have zero depth but why did Hedstrom not play at all today?
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: VULB#62 on January 01, 2023, 03:58:36 PM
Quote from: mj on January 01, 2023, 03:37:42 PM
I agree that Indiana State isn't the most talented team. But they get those [sic] most out of that talent.

I believe that is what is called, outside zip codes 46385 & 46383, good coaching.
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: beacons23 on January 01, 2023, 04:06:41 PM
Womens team may even be worse...what a debacle
Former administration should give some money back to unwind these hires
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: justducky on January 01, 2023, 04:09:59 PM
I had really hoped that a Valpo team would show up today. I saw nothing in our play or strategy that can be built on for future success. The only thing I really learned was who our 4'th string point guard is.

I now can picture 4 conference wins as being a challenge. Maybe only one team in the last 30 years has been clearly worse.   :o
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: covufan on January 01, 2023, 04:28:24 PM
After three decent to good outings, we bring you back to your regularly scheduled team led by Lottich


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: valpopal on January 01, 2023, 04:40:36 PM
Apparently, the problem was that our players were "exhausted," even though they had only played one game in the previous ten days and have had no classes to attend, readings to do, or papers to write because they have also been on an academic break during that entire stretch of time. Also, this doesn't explain the more than 11 minutes without a basket that started not at the end of the game, when weariness might be expected, but in the first half and then continued after a halftime break.  ???


Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: valpofb16 on January 01, 2023, 05:52:25 PM
Team is in rough shape. The hire of Lottich was bad. Labarbaras hires as a whole were bad despite what was incumbent.

He did a good job getting Valpo to the doormat of the MVC. I am hoping school starts getting resourceful or a declined basketball program with dwindling enrollment could bode bad news
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: usc4valpo on January 01, 2023, 06:10:17 PM
What is worse 16 is that the student body is apathetic toward basketball and have more concern promoting the stupid dog mascots. Padilla has a huge challenge ahead getting this university in decent shape.
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: beacons23 on January 01, 2023, 06:58:50 PM
Quote from: valpofb16 on January 01, 2023, 05:52:25 PM
Team is in rough shape. The hire of Lottich was bad. Labarbaras hires as a whole were bad despite what was incumbent.

He did a good job getting Valpo to the doormat of the MVC. I am hoping school starts getting resourceful or a declined basketball program with dwindling enrollment could bode bad news

None of the media asks any tough questions ...all softballs...and our announcers make excuses....
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: usc4valpo on January 01, 2023, 07:08:19 PM
Beacons23 - not sure I completely agree. Paul Oren was pretty darn objective today. I agree with you on the Media and announcers non critical attitude. This big issue is lack of interest. Hopefully big changes ahead.
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: AlaskaCrusader19 on January 01, 2023, 08:18:52 PM
A new coaching staff won't have an easy job ahead of him, but you'd have to think that Padilla/Small are at the point of no return here. It's clear that Matt Lottich isn't going to bring Valpo into the top half of the Missouri Valley. The recruiting, the development, the in-game coaching and the game planning simply aren't there.
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: valpopal on January 01, 2023, 08:32:44 PM
Quote from: AlaskaCrusader19 on January 01, 2023, 08:18:52 PM
A new coaching staff won't have an easy job ahead of him, but you'd have to think that Padilla/Small are at the point of no return here. It's clear that Matt Lottich isn't going to bring Valpo into the top half of the Missouri Valley. The recruiting, the development, the in-game coaching and the game planning simply aren't there.
According to the current NET rankings, Valpo would not even crack the top half of the Horizon League. VU would place 9th.
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: AB on January 01, 2023, 09:15:55 PM
Fine line between being critical and being objective. You still want the coaching staff too feel open/comfortable enough to talk. This isn't a power 5 team where you have multiple media members/beat writers and radio covering the team. The team and radio travel on the plane together. Don't want to create a tense environment.
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: usc4valpo on January 01, 2023, 09:28:13 PM
It may be tense with conversations with Padilla and Small. If this continues I feel we'll see a change. It's overdue.
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: vu72 on January 01, 2023, 09:30:42 PM
Great news!  I wasted over three hours of my life I'll never regain, watching our mens and woman's teams get blown out.  Interestingly enough, by all most the same score. Dr. Small is now getting use to the Valpo dilemma:  Terrible teams results.  Get use to the winter basketball teams because softball and baseball are coming up quickly.
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: JD24 on January 01, 2023, 11:23:13 PM
Quote from: mj on January 01, 2023, 03:37:42 PMI agree that Indiana State isn't the most talented team. But they get those most out of that talent. I don't understand Valpo's rotations at all. I know that we have zero depth but why did Hedstrom not play at all today?
I'll offer an opinion....and I don't think it's a positive for the program.

He stinks. He hasn't spent much time on the floor but I don't think there was a second of any play I've seen from him in which I thought he could be of any value at all whether defensively, offensively or shifting down a chair when a player comes back to the bench.
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: David81 on January 01, 2023, 11:33:10 PM
Both President Padilla and AD Small seem to have these competitive, can-do streaks. And both have been around the block a bit, in significant university positions. I'm sure that whatever we're seeing, they're seeing. And neither is here to let VU's sports program deteriorate on their watch. That said, they're not going to be sharing their private thought bubbles and conversations with us. We'll know something when they want us to know it (unless Paul O. gets a scoop).

I'll change my tune if we get more of the status quo during the off-season. But I don't think that will happen. For now, I hope this team does as well as it can, for the sake of its fans, the school, and the players and coaches -- who seem to be handling the adversity of this season with class.


Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: mj on January 01, 2023, 11:40:35 PM
We're now shooting 18% from 3 during conference play. (14-76)

Green is 15% (4-27)
Barrett is 11% (1-9)
Hedstrom is 100%! (2-2)

Apparently the lid on the basket has been welded shut. Yikes.


Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: Valpo89 on January 02, 2023, 09:34:05 AM
Quote from: AB on January 01, 2023, 09:15:55 PM
Fine line between being critical and being objective. You still want the coaching staff too feel open/comfortable enough to talk. This isn't a power 5 team where you have multiple media members/beat writers and radio covering the team. The team and radio travel on the plane together. Don't want to create a tense environment.
The Post Tribune stopped covering the team last year. The Times basically stopped covering the team last year, when Paul Oren left to start The Victory Bell. The Times coverage isn't going to get any better for a couple reasons - 1. The team stinks; 2. The Times laid off its long-time sports editor, it currently has a young guy who has only been around for about one year and he's probably overwhelmed just trying to get a paper out every day. Bad Beacons teams are not going to be high on the coverage list.
So, there IS no one to ask tough questions. PO does as much as he can. The newspapers not covering the team, I believe, contributes to the lack of attendance. Only die-hards like people on this board actually know the schedule. It's a death spiral.
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: vu72 on January 02, 2023, 10:24:40 AM
Quote from: mj on January 01, 2023, 11:40:35 PM
We're now shooting 18% from 3 during conference play. (14-76)

Green is 15% (4-27)
Barrett is 11% (1-9)
Hedstrom is 100%! (2-2)

Apparently the lid on the basket has been welded shut. Yikes.




Worse yet is Kobe shooting 0% in conference play--now 0-7,  Part of the problem is these guys are in and out so much they can't find a rhythm and Ben, notwithstanding how hard he worked on the 3 ball in the off season, isn't the answer.  I would go with Nelson a lot more.

Mark LaBarbera wasn't a basketball man, Charles Small is and can see the issues as good as anyone.
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: valpopal on January 02, 2023, 11:32:56 AM
Quote from: vu72 on January 02, 2023, 10:24:40 AM
Worse yet is Kobe shooting 0% in conference play--now 0-7,  Part of the problem is these guys are in and out so much they can't find a rhythm and Ben, notwithstanding how hard he worked on the 3 ball in the off season, isn't the answer. I would go with Nelson a lot more.
Although there is a problem, I don't see the "in and out" status as the issue for King, Green, or Krikke. They are the three players getting the most time on the court. Minutes played per game in conference play: King (37.6), Green (31.5), and Krikke (37.8). Yet, the trio are just 6-41 (14.6%) from three-point range, with Krikke actually shooting best at 28.6%. Nelson (3-8) is only one shot better than Krikke (2-7).     
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: valpofb16 on January 02, 2023, 01:50:45 PM
The portal and lack of community support are killing Valpo athletics.

No newspaper covering the only division one product in the region is an awful sentiment. You would think a town of Valpos size would really embrace the University and revenue it could bring in, however it has gone the opposite direction.

Off campus housing is a pain to get, no newspaper coverage, no regional TV deal.
It is mind boggling why there isn't more of an effort.

The portal is allowing every player who over achieves as an underclassmen or isn't a fit to move on immediately. Valpo is left getting busts (harsh term but yes a P5 transfer to a mid major is a bust) from larger schools, or taking a chance on fliers / over achievers from small majors or juco.

Valpos arguably becoming one of the hardest schools to win at and it is for these reasons. A completely ill timed rebranding. Lack of alumni / student support, and still rising(!) tuiton. That athletics are looking doom and gloom
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: JD24 on January 02, 2023, 05:00:22 PM
Quote from: valpopal on January 02, 2023, 11:32:56 AM
Quote from: vu72 on January 02, 2023, 10:24:40 AMWorse yet is Kobe shooting 0% in conference play--now 0-7,  Part of the problem is these guys are in and out so much they can't find a rhythm and Ben, notwithstanding how hard he worked on the 3 ball in the off season, isn't the answer. I would go with Nelson a lot more.
Although there is a problem, I don't see the "in and out" status as the issue for King, Green, or Krikke. They are the three players getting the most time on the court. Minutes played per game in conference play: King (37.6), Green (31.5), and Krikke (37.8). Yet, the trio are just 6-41 (14.6%) from three-point range, with Krikke actually shooting best at 28.6%. Nelson (3-8) is only one shot better than Krikke (2-7).
I'm in agreement here. It's not a continuity issue. It's a talent issue. It is difficult to win with 2 1/2 players on the roster worth anything more than the occasional period of solid play. Green was mentioned earlier as a guy who'd started to play well which is true. Problem is that one fault with some players can be consistency so he follows up a few good games with a down in the dumps game.
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: David81 on January 02, 2023, 05:51:06 PM
Quote from: JD24 on January 02, 2023, 05:00:22 PM
Quote from: valpopal on January 02, 2023, 11:32:56 AM
Quote from: vu72 on January 02, 2023, 10:24:40 AMWorse yet is Kobe shooting 0% in conference play--now 0-7,  Part of the problem is these guys are in and out so much they can't find a rhythm and Ben, notwithstanding how hard he worked on the 3 ball in the off season, isn't the answer. I would go with Nelson a lot more.
Although there is a problem, I don't see the "in and out" status as the issue for King, Green, or Krikke. They are the three players getting the most time on the court. Minutes played per game in conference play: King (37.6), Green (31.5), and Krikke (37.8). Yet, the trio are just 6-41 (14.6%) from three-point range, with Krikke actually shooting best at 28.6%. Nelson (3-8) is only one shot better than Krikke (2-7).
I'm in agreement here. It's not a continuity issue. It's a talent issue. It is difficult to win with 2 1/2 players on the roster worth anything more than the occasional period of solid play. Green was mentioned earlier as a guy who'd started to play well which is true. Problem is that one fault with some players can be consistency so he follows up a few good games with a down in the dumps game.


If VU had a genuine star who can carry the team on his shoulders and inspire others to step up, this could be a darn good team with Krikke, King, and Edwards surrounding him. But this raises my biggest concern about the competitiveness of mid-majors: A team with a Drew, Broekhoff, Peters, or JFL, plus a solid surrounding cast, can compete for post-season play. But if they can't sign and retain that kind of player through graduation, it's not going to happen.


Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: elephtheria47 on January 02, 2023, 07:52:48 PM
That model is dead. If you have a mid major star, you will lose him. Need to create a positive and winning atmosphere to win the transfer portal and to built the next man up mentality. While the portal has plenty of negatives, it also allows a program to turn itself around quickly. Which one do we want to be.
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: VULB#62 on January 02, 2023, 08:50:07 PM
Quote from: elephtheria47 on January 02, 2023, 07:52:48 PM
That model is dead. If you have a mid major star, you will lose him. Need to create a positive and winning atmosphere to win the transfer portal and to built the next man up mentality. While the portal has plenty of negatives, it also allows a program to turn itself around quickly. Which one do we want to be.

If  ............   you have the MONEY to underwrite that kind of tumultuous environment.

I absolutely, positively HATE this S#*+  !!! 

Sorry everyone. Valpo currently is not, IMO, institutionally, culturally or financially equipped to competitively play in this hardball arena.  Unless, that is, it can find several million in cash right now to turn this aircraft carrier headed over Niagara Falls around.

Now, excuse me while I grab my mixed metaphors and retreat down to my cave and play old videos of the Drew, Rowdy, and Peters eras — when things were more predicable and the world was simpler.
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: JD24 on January 02, 2023, 10:45:38 PM
Quote from: elephtheria47 on January 02, 2023, 07:52:48 PMThat model is dead. If you have a mid major star, you will lose him. Need to create a positive and winning atmosphere to win the transfer portal and to built the next man up mentality. While the portal has plenty of negatives, it also allows a program to turn itself around quickly. Which one do we want to be.
I had posted in another earlier thread that it will likely take a coach and staff which can, on an annual basis, put together a roster from scratch and make it jell quickly. There will likely be no player development to any great degree.
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: David81 on January 02, 2023, 10:48:16 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on January 02, 2023, 08:50:07 PM
Quote from: elephtheria47 on January 02, 2023, 07:52:48 PM
That model is dead. If you have a mid major star, you will lose him. Need to create a positive and winning atmosphere to win the transfer portal and to built the next man up mentality. While the portal has plenty of negatives, it also allows a program to turn itself around quickly. Which one do we want to be.

If  ............   you have the MONEY to underwrite that kind of tumultuous environment.

I absolutely, positively HATE this S#*+  !!! 

Sorry everyone. Valpo currently is not, IMO, institutionally, culturally or financially equipped to competitively play in this hardball arena.  Unless, that is, it can find several million in cash right now to turn this aircraft carrier headed over Niagara Falls around.

Now, excuse me while I grab my mixed metaphors and retreat down to my cave and play old videos of the Drew, Rowdy, and Peters eras — when things were more predicable and the world was simpler.

Well, VULB#62, in addition to visualizing the USS Valpo trying to turn around before it goes over the falls, you further beg the big picture question of whether the transfer portal has changed the D1 game so dramatically that someone like Alec Peters -- whose game matured in part because he was at a mid-major that allowed him to fully develop rather than be a role player, and who graduated a mere 6 years ago -- would no longer stay for four years.

Folks, if this is the new reality, then either the NCAA is going to have to change the portal, or you'll start to see a trickle of more marginal DI programs scaling back to D2 or perhaps even more likely, D3. (I see no glory in being a top D2 school....) Eventually schools like VU will confront the question.
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: David81 on January 02, 2023, 10:55:22 PM
Quote from: JD24 on January 02, 2023, 10:45:38 PM
Quote from: elephtheria47 on January 02, 2023, 07:52:48 PMThat model is dead. If you have a mid major star, you will lose him. Need to create a positive and winning atmosphere to win the transfer portal and to built the next man up mentality. While the portal has plenty of negatives, it also allows a program to turn itself around quickly. Which one do we want to be.
I had posted in another earlier thread that it will likely take a coach and staff which can, on an annual basis, put together a roster from scratch and make it jell quickly. There will likely be no player development to any great degree.


Then that may be the death knell for the VU-type mid-major, i.e., a solid program with some positive history, but not at a level to attract the players it needs to be NCAA tourney-worthy, absent a very lucky year.

Right now, VU's most promising transfer vein is a possibly continuous flow of outstanding D2 players who are ready to be strong role player starters, like Kevion Taylor and Nick Edwards.
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: JD24 on January 02, 2023, 11:01:14 PM
Quote from: David81 on January 02, 2023, 10:55:22 PM
Quote from: JD24 on January 02, 2023, 10:45:38 PM
Quote from: elephtheria47 on January 02, 2023, 07:52:48 PMThat model is dead. If you have a mid major star, you will lose him. Need to create a positive and winning atmosphere to win the transfer portal and to built the next man up mentality. While the portal has plenty of negatives, it also allows a program to turn itself around quickly. Which one do we want to be.
I had posted in another earlier thread that it will likely take a coach and staff which can, on an annual basis, put together a roster from scratch and make it jell quickly. There will likely be no player development to any great degree.
Then that may be the death knell for the VU-type mid-major, i.e., a solid program with some positive history, but not at a level to attract the players it needs to be NCAA tourney-worthy, absent a very lucky year. Right now, VU's most promising transfer vein is a possibly continuous flow of outstanding D2 players who are ready to be strong role player starters, like Kevion Taylor and Nick Edwards.
For Valpo it is going to be tough. It'll be tough to attact the coach they would need because he may see a situation too tough for him to be successful in. It'll be tough to attact the players needed to be competitive.

I'm not real confident that this gets turned around in the current environment.
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: oklahomamick on January 03, 2023, 07:40:52 AM
Yea but it's been done before.  Valpo has been successful at basketball for a long long time. 

Yes I know everyone who coached had the same last name. 
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: usc4valpo on January 03, 2023, 08:08:11 AM
Drake and Indiana State compete in the same environment. At the MVC level, Valpo has been in the bottom half. Time for a change, change is painful but good for the long term. Valpo tends to be so passive in their decision making.
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: vu72 on January 03, 2023, 09:01:22 AM
Quote from: valpofb16 on January 02, 2023, 01:50:45 PMValpo is left getting busts (harsh term but yes a P5 transfer to a mid major is a bust) from larger schools, or taking a chance on fliers / over achievers from small majors or juco.

Here is where memories can be a little faulty.  We have had transfers from P5 schools who have either been stars or very valuable role players.

Witness:

Thomas Kithier  10.1 ppg (would have been very good if heathy)
Trevor Anderson  9.2 ppg (ditto Kithier)
Ryan Fazekas  10.6 ppg (ditto Kithier)
Bakari Evelyn  9.2 ppg
Shane Hammink  15.1 ppg
LaVonte Dority  15.7 ppg
Cory Johnson  14.1 ppg
Ron Howard
Tony Falu (while it lasted!)
Joe Burton (ditto Falu)

So it is very possible to bring in a guy from a P5 who either didn't play much (Cory Johnson) or was a starter but not featured (Thomas Kithier).  Sure, there are the Joe Hedstrom's of our recruiting past who will never be a main line contributor but many others who have come in and been great supporting actors like, say, Will Bogan or Ben Boggs.
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: JD24 on January 03, 2023, 10:22:35 AM
Quote from: vu72 on January 03, 2023, 09:01:22 AM
Quote from: valpofb16 on January 02, 2023, 01:50:45 PMValpo is left getting busts (harsh term but yes a P5 transfer to a mid major is a bust) from larger schools, or taking a chance on fliers / over achievers from small majors or juco.
Here is where memories can be a little faulty.  We have had transfers from P5 schools who have either been stars or very valuable role players. Witness: Thomas Kithier  10.1 ppg (would have been very good if heathy) Trevor Anderson  9.2 ppg (ditto Kithier) Ryan Fazekas  10.6 ppg (ditto Kithier) Bakari Evelyn  9.2 ppg Shane Hammink  15.1 ppg LaVonte Dority  15.7 ppg Cory Johnson  14.1 ppg Ron Howard Tony Falu (while it lasted!) Joe Burton (ditto Falu) So it is very possible to bring in a guy from a P5 who either didn't play much (Cory Johnson) or was a starter but not featured (Thomas Kithier).  Sure, there are the Joe Hedstrom's of our recruiting past who will never be a main line contributor but many others who have come in and been great supporting actors like, say, Will Bogan or Ben Boggs.
We're going hack a bit for Cory Johnson but the first three listed had problems staying healthy and that is part of the overall point. These are flawed players in some fashion. For some its inconsistency. For others its the simple fact that they can't really play. For others its that they can't stay healthy. In addition, these are still role players best left to feed off a high end talent which will either never get to Valpo or leave quickly if they do.
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: VULB#62 on January 03, 2023, 11:36:50 AM
Given the hypothetical (repeat, hypothetical) that Valpo goes "all-in" to boost its MBB program, can Valpo......

1 - Find and pay for a coach who can annually assemble a cadre of new mercenaries who can jell over night to become a force in the MVC?

2 - Find the money and sponsorships necessary to compete for players in the new NIL world — something that is just beginning to rear its ugly head beyond the P5 domain?

3 - Find a way to create a more fan/player-attractive entertainment venue (i.e., the playing arena and ancillary trappings) that actually contributes to generating enough income to help pay for 1 and 2 above.

And finally.....

4 - Find a way to change institutionally, culturally and financially to facilitate an all-in commitment?

And related to #4. Can just two people, Padilla and Smart, both of whom have displayed the leadership characteristics Valpo needs, lift Valpo over what seems innumerable obstacles to make this happen?


Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: valpofb16 on January 03, 2023, 11:41:22 AM
None of the above players moved the needle at a P5 program. Some were good-fine Valpo players.

Guys like Peters will be hard to come by to stay for four because teams are quite literally poaching mid majors.

Guys like Browkhoff and Van Wijk are hard finds because the world is a lot more connected than in 2008 in terms of technology.

So yes Valpo is left getting power 5 left overs, mid major recruits, and any sleepers will move on.

In terms of pumping money into basketball. Valpo should look at what provides its highest overall profit and value to the university and triple down at this time
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: JD24 on January 03, 2023, 12:22:47 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on January 03, 2023, 11:36:50 AM2 - Find the money and sponsorships necessary to compete for players in the new NIL world — something that is just beginning to rear its ugly head beyond the P5 domain? 
It's going to take a while for NIL to settle down. Right now its just a free for all. At some point players down the food chain a bigger places will not get the dollars they might at the moment and those players will move down the list where they can earn some as the bigger fish in the smaller pond.

That said, I'm not particularly confident that Valpo has the kind of alumni commitment to fund NIL as will be necessary even as a mid major.
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: VULB#62 on January 03, 2023, 01:52:41 PM
The accelerating pace of change in college athletics is mind-boggling — and, with a few exceptions, more-so at the mid-major level. It's head-spinning.

At least when free agency hit professional sports there were player contracts that provided some stability.  No so in college sports. Kids can transfer willy-nilly - no restrictions, no repercussions, no responsibility, no accountability.

When the NCAA basically opened the barn door with the transfer portal and no restrictions like sitting out a year, and then, for good measure, tore the barn down completely with NIL that, in effect, incentivized the scramble to transfer, it (the NCAA) did nothing to provide for any semblance of order or stability. This self-inflicted mayhem, and it is mayhem, will cause a shakeout that actually will harm the institution of college athletics more than it helps. And schools like Valpo with meager alumni support and weak revenue streams will be among the first schools pushed off the cliff.

Nuff for now. Gotta go recharge my metephor mixer. It just ran out of juice. :lol:
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: usc4valpo on January 03, 2023, 02:36:27 PM
If the NCAA and Emmert were not so academic and pompous jerks, NIL would not have been so extreme.
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: VULB#62 on January 03, 2023, 02:43:55 PM
Former governor of Massachusetts, Charlie Baker, the first non-academic, has been chosen to replace Emmert.  He gets a chance to bring some credibility to the NCAA this year.
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: usc4valpo on January 03, 2023, 02:57:09 PM
Why Emmert is not gone is beyond me. The NCAA needs an enema.
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: Valpo89 on January 03, 2023, 04:29:34 PM
One thing I've always said, there's a reason basketball players end up at VU ... and not at a Big 10 school (or other Power 5).
Usually, the reason is a flaw (or combination of flaws) that is exposed either during the recruiting process, or the reason for a transfer.
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: VULB#62 on January 03, 2023, 08:00:59 PM
Quote from: usc4valpo on January 03, 2023, 02:57:09 PM
Why Emmert is not gone is beyond me. The NCAA needs an enema.


USC, he is done (i.e., gone), kaput, outta there. It is now the Baker era.
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: usc4valpo on January 04, 2023, 06:11:32 AM
Actually, he is still there until February. He is a complete putz.
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: VULB#62 on January 04, 2023, 11:51:07 AM
Very lame duck there merely for transition purposes. He is now powerless to do anything (assuming he ever did anything positive  ::)  ).
Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: David81 on January 04, 2023, 01:28:25 PM
Quote from: vu72 on January 03, 2023, 09:01:22 AM
Quote from: valpofb16 on January 02, 2023, 01:50:45 PMValpo is left getting busts (harsh term but yes a P5 transfer to a mid major is a bust) from larger schools, or taking a chance on fliers / over achievers from small majors or juco.

Here is where memories can be a little faulty.  We have had transfers from P5 schools who have either been stars or very valuable role players.

Witness:

Thomas Kithier  10.1 ppg (would have been very good if heathy)
Trevor Anderson  9.2 ppg (ditto Kithier)
Ryan Fazekas  10.6 ppg (ditto Kithier)
Bakari Evelyn  9.2 ppg
Shane Hammink  15.1 ppg
LaVonte Dority  15.7 ppg
Cory Johnson  14.1 ppg
Ron Howard
Tony Falu (while it lasted!)
Joe Burton (ditto Falu)

So it is very possible to bring in a guy from a P5 who either didn't play much (Cory Johnson) or was a starter but not featured (Thomas Kithier).  Sure, there are the Joe Hedstrom's of our recruiting past who will never be a main line contributor but many others who have come in and been great supporting actors like, say, Will Bogan or Ben Boggs.


Some very good players on that list -- and a lot of what-could-have-beens, minus injuries -- but I would count even the best of them (Hammink, Dority, Johnson) as solid #2s, not the kind of player who leads a team into the NCAA tourney.

But to play the devil's advocate, could what seems so far be closer than we think? After all, the fan fiction version of last year would be JFL leading a team that includes Krikke, King, Taylor, S. Edwards, and healthy versions of Kithier and Anderson. Now that's a group that puts VU into the post-season conversation.

Title: Re: Sycamores visit the ARC -- 1 pm New Year's Day
Post by: beacons23 on January 05, 2023, 07:48:54 AM
The guy was a self serving pompous ass