Milwaukee is favored by 6 points: the Crusaders will have to convince me they did not start another second-half swoon with their disappointing performance in the Green Bay game.
Valpo 60, Milwaukee 70
Unfortunately, I don't see us winning at Milwaukee after a let down in Green Bay.
Milwaukee 73
Valpo 59
Have we had two bad games in a row? I predict that both Bogan and Harris will have big nights (or should I say afternoons) each hitting at least four threes on way to a 80 to 74 Valpo victory.
This gives me the opportunity to be wrong on three counts...
As the HLN game of the week, the game's on Comcast Sports Net. On Comcast in Valpo, it looks like it's channel 200, in HD. Does anybody happen to know if there's a non-HD feed? I don't think so, but please correct me if I'm wrong!
Channel 200's apparently not included in my package...
Richie Edwards should be kicked off the team. What a piece of crap.
Yeah, the only guy with any enthusiasm.
Valpo 56, your crazy...Besides Kenny, Edwards is the only one not afraid to get physical and tangle.
Quote from: oklahomamick on January 28, 2012, 01:56:51 PM
Valpo 56, your crazy...Besides Kenny, Edwards is the only one not afraid to get physical and tangle.
Who gives a :censored:? He's a giant headcase and a detriment to the team when he acts like that.
Technical foul against Kenny.
A good win and a pleasant surprise! Although we wanted a Wisconsin sweep, I think most of us realistically would have been satisfied with a split, though we would have guessed a win over GB and a loss to Milwaukee. The team deserves credit for coming back from the Green Bay loss and coming back in today's game.
Quote from: valpofan56 on January 28, 2012, 02:09:20 PM
Quote from: oklahomamick on January 28, 2012, 01:56:51 PM
Valpo 56, your crazy...Besides Kenny, Edwards is the only one not afraid to get physical and tangle.
Who gives a :censored:? He's a giant headcase and a detriment to the team when he acts like that.
Yeah,. and we should kick Matt off too! Maybe 56, you should get a few more facts before you spout off. I don't know what happened out there but it was a brawl the whole game. Suggesting a kid should be kicked off the team is just over the top.
BTW, a great win in a very tough environment. We definitely needed it so we aren't behind Milwaukee in tie breakers.
As for oklahomamick's comment, I guess most of us think Kevin and Ryan aren't exactly afraid to mix it up ;D
Looks like the Horizon League could be between Valpo and Cleveland State now. Milwaukee has just 2 home games left and 5 road games (although 2 are against UIC and Loyola). This was a great victory today. And how about 4 techs on the Wisconsin trip? Never would have guessed that.
Quote from: vu72 on January 28, 2012, 03:19:35 PM
Quote from: valpofan56 on January 28, 2012, 02:09:20 PM
Quote from: oklahomamick on January 28, 2012, 01:56:51 PM
Valpo 56, your crazy...Besides Kenny, Edwards is the only one not afraid to get physical and tangle.
Who gives a :censored:? He's a giant headcase and a detriment to the team when he acts like that.
Yeah,. and we should kick Matt off too! Maybe 56, you should get a few more facts before you spout off. I don't know what happened out there but it was a brawl the whole game. Suggesting a kid should be kicked off the team is just over the top.
BTW, a great win in a very tough environment. We definitely needed it so we aren't behind Milwaukee in tie breakers.
As for oklahomamick's comment, I guess most of us think Kevin and Ryan aren't exactly afraid to mix it up ;D
I know exactly what happened because I was watching the game. Edwards kept running his damn mouth, he started all of the chippy play by acting like a complete ass hat every minute he was in the game. Son of Christian missionaries or not, the kid is a thug and that's exactly what he acts like.
Was not happyq with the TS called as they seemed to be driven more by refs reading conference edicts than letting players show passion. valpo was listless until they showed some sparks w Richie early. What we need to do is stop giving away offensive possessions. Notwithstanding, incredible comeback on road, tough environ, physical opponent. And Ryan B takes the lead in POY. Steal, penetration, kick, got it back score and foul, and then when Cornette said only Harris can create, Ryan goes on drive and ONIONS layup. And great call by Bryce to zone. Plus 1 for the post play on last poss too. Great wins by Bryce and Scott today on Coaches v Cancer day. Get well Janet and Coach Homer.
Very good defense, especially on Williams, who only had one basket and he got that in the last minute of play.
The team showed a lot of character and will power. Would have been easy to give up when your on the second leg of the Wisconsin road trip, down 11 in a physical game, no help from refs and one of your top bench defenders out of the game with two technical fouls. Instead, the team battled back. Props to Bryce for going to the zone. It appeared the Panthers had difficulties breaking the zone. Congratulations to the team and coaching staff on a big win.
Would be nice if Youngstown beat Cleveland State tonight.
OMG can't believe some of the crap that is written on here. Ritchie is no thug he is a really nice guy that wears his heart on his sleeve and is passionate. Yes getting T's is not a smart thing but I love the passion and it certainly fired up the team, maybe it was a plan ;D What about Matt's T, I don't know how many times he got smacked in the head/face I am proud of him for not decking someone. Those refs were so blatantly bad and home town, how many times did we go to the basket and get bumped and smacked in the face and got no calls. I thought the rest of the team did well to keep their cool because it was so bad. What does this team need to do to please some of you, we loose and you are not happy, we win and you are not happy? I for one am so proud of the never say die attitude this team showed in a very hard fought and physical win with everything stacked against them. GO VALPO!!! :thumbsup:
There is no way we can conclude that Richie should be kicked off the team, especially those of who weren't there. Not nearly enough info.
That said, I am very disappointed in him, if what I heard is true, and I saw nothing to contradict that conclusion. He was pumping his fists as he left the court. There is no scoreboard for macho. There is, however, a scoreboard for free throws.
We did not win because Richie got tossed. We won in spite of it (because he was helping). We probably did feed off it, but that's not a credit to Richie, that's a credit to his teammates.
We also won because we were better than Milwaukee in the 2nd half, which had nothing to do with any technical fouls.
Quote from: koala on January 28, 2012, 03:59:34 PM
OMG can't believe some of the crap that is written on here. Ritchie is no thug he is a really nice guy that wears his heart on his sleeve and is passionate. Yes getting T's is not a smart thing but I love the passion and it certainly fired up the team, maybe it was a plan ;D What about Matt's T, I don't know how many times he got smacked in the head/face I am proud of him for not decking someone. Those refs were so blatantly bad and home town, how many times did we go to the basket and get bumped and smacked in the face and got no calls. I thought the rest of the team did well to keep their cool because it was so bad. What does this team need to do to please some of you, we loose and you are not happy, we win and you are not happy? I for one am so proud of the never say die attitude this team showed in a very hard fought and physical win with everything stacked against them. GO VALPO!!! :thumbsup:
Agreed mostly, though I thought we started getting those calls in the 2nd half and even some questionable calls went our way. But yes, very impressed with the effort.
props to the students that traveled. the uwm student section twitter-er is complaining that they were shown up by 40 students from valpo. that's what i'm talkin' about!! and if you don't believe it, go to twitter, and search for @jetersjungle. :clap: :cheers: :thewave:
Great win in a tough venue...the guys were not going to be beaten up by the Panthers... disappointed in Edwards' and Matt's T's but love their enthusiam and hustle...this win says alot for Bryce and how his team responds to difficult situations, especially being down so far in the first half...says alot for a first year coach and young team... seems like Buggs is becoming less and less of as factor as the season progresses, quite a disappointment...altho he is young and needs improvement I like Harris at the point AND HE CAN SCORE AND ISN'T AFRAID TO SHOOT!!!! GO VALPO!!!!
Good win, and glad I was wrong. In regards to Richie, not sure he deserved the second T. All the video showed was him yelling loudly looking towards OUR bench, I didn't see anything where he yelled at their bench?
Quote from: valpotx on January 28, 2012, 04:09:00 PM
Good win, and glad I was wrong. In regards to Richie, not sure he deserved the second T. All the video showed was him yelling loudly looking towards OUR bench, I didn't see anything where he yelled at their bench?
Agreed. I want to be clear: I don't *know* that he deserved it, I'm just saying that I think it's plausible.
Quote from: valpotx on January 28, 2012, 04:09:00 PM
Good win, and glad I was wrong. In regards to Richie, not sure he deserved the second T. All the video showed was him yelling loudly looking towards OUR bench, I didn't see anything where he yelled at their bench?
Watch again. He looked right at them and ran his mouth. I was disappointed, but mostly okay with the first T, but that second one was completely stupid and shows that Edwards has absolutely no poise and no class. Combine that with other bits of evidence (see ssshing the Butler student section) and I can come to no other than conclusion than that Edwards is an immature little punk and he better grow up in a big hurry.
Great win. This is the type of "tough-it-out" physical win a team needs to win a regular season conference title. With Edwards getting tossed, it is pretty amazing that the rest of the guys hung tough and played physical.
Hey we won the game how about we talk about that and not Ritchie anymore? The coaching staff will deal with him so lets get back to talking about the great win :)
Quote from: koala on January 28, 2012, 04:16:57 PMHey we won the game how about we talk about that and not Ritchie anymore? The coaching staff will deal with him so lets get back to talking about the great win :)
I agree Koala it was a hard fought win in a tough environment, well done boys !! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Quote from: valpofan56 on January 28, 2012, 04:13:36 PMWatch again. He looked right at them and ran his mouth. I was disappointed, but mostly okay with the first T, but that second one was completely stupid and shows that Edwards has absolutely no poise and no class. Combine that with other bits of evidence (see ssshing the Butler student section) and I can come to no other than conclusion than that Edwards is an immature little punk and he better grow up in a big hurry.
from the camera I was watching, looks like the ref was right there so whatever he did/said was right in front of the ref..bad luck.
great game today. so proud of the guys for hanging in there till all the way till the bitter end. Go Valpo!!!
Quote from: valpofan56 on January 28, 2012, 04:13:36 PMQuote from: valpotx on January 28, 2012, 04:09:00 PMGood win, and glad I was wrong. In regards to Richie, not sure he deserved the second T. All the video showed was him yelling loudly looking towards OUR bench, I didn't see anything where he yelled at their bench?
Watch again. He looked right at them and ran his mouth. I was disappointed, but mostly okay with the first T, but that second one was completely stupid and shows that Edwards has absolutely no poise and no class. Combine that with other bits of evidence (see ssshing the Butler student section) and I can come to no other than conclusion than that Edwards is an immature little punk and he better grow up in a big hurry.
Yep! Immature punk is accurate.
Quote from: valpofan56 on January 28, 2012, 04:13:36 PM
Quote from: valpotx on January 28, 2012, 04:09:00 PM
Good win, and glad I was wrong. In regards to Richie, not sure he deserved the second T. All the video showed was him yelling loudly looking towards OUR bench, I didn't see anything where he yelled at their bench?
Watch again. He looked right at them and ran his mouth. I was disappointed, but mostly okay with the first T, but that second one was completely stupid and shows that Edwards has absolutely no poise and no class. Combine that with other bits of evidence (see ssshing the Butler student section) and I can come to no other than conclusion than that Edwards is an immature little punk and he better grow up in a big hurry.
Shushing Butler fan section? That's a minor infraction at best. Butler students have thin skins. I thought it was funny.
Quote from: valpofan56 on January 28, 2012, 04:13:36 PM
Quote from: valpotx on January 28, 2012, 04:09:00 PM
Good win, and glad I was wrong. In regards to Richie, not sure he deserved the second T. All the video showed was him yelling loudly looking towards OUR bench, I didn't see anything where he yelled at their bench?
Watch again. He looked right at them and ran his mouth. I was disappointed, but mostly okay with the first T, but that second one was completely stupid and shows that Edwards has absolutely no poise and no class. Combine that with other bits of evidence (see ssshing the Butler student section) and I can come to no other than conclusion than that Edwards is an immature little punk and he better grow up in a big hurry.
Seems the pot is calling the kettle black. You seem to have a corner on running your mouth and showing no class on this board.
I thought that Richie was goaded into some of the stuff that got him ejected. Another case of Jeter telling his guys to pick on the most volatile player, so they went for the freshman, and happened to get Richie riled up. We lose him for the Detroit game because of the ejection.
The guys did put up a hard fight. A very strong win in the closing minutes for these guys.
I did mention during the game chat that it might not hurt to try having Rowdy, Kevin, and Vucic in at the same time, maybe that would help our guards shoot the ball some more, since they would have some height to go after rebounds, rather than having our height being about as tall as their physical players inside.
Some positives, some negatives, but a ballsy win on the road in a hostile environment--this is exactly what we needed after GB ripped the scab off of the wound inflicted by last year's Wisconsin trip. Nice to see us come back like that after the crap we strung together two days ago. Good job fellas.
Rather than slam the guys on this board who are critical of Edwards, maybe we should all consider what Edwards did. His technicals could have cost us this game and wasted a terrific effort by his teammates. Not only that, he can't play in the next game against Detroit. How is that helping his teammates, who find themselves in the middle of a race for the conference championship?
Doesn't matter that we weren't getting the calls from the refs, or that he was goaded or taunted by the opposing team into losing his temper. He showed very poor judgment and an immature attitude. He is responsible, not guys on the board who call him out for conduct that hurts the team and, by the way, the university. Paul
Quote from: vu72 on January 28, 2012, 04:43:14 PM
Quote from: valpofan56 on January 28, 2012, 04:13:36 PM
Quote from: valpotx on January 28, 2012, 04:09:00 PM
Good win, and glad I was wrong. In regards to Richie, not sure he deserved the second T. All the video showed was him yelling loudly looking towards OUR bench, I didn't see anything where he yelled at their bench?
Watch again. He looked right at them and ran his mouth. I was disappointed, but mostly okay with the first T, but that second one was completely stupid and shows that Edwards has absolutely no poise and no class. Combine that with other bits of evidence (see ssshing the Butler student section) and I can come to no other than conclusion than that Edwards is an immature little punk and he better grow up in a big hurry.
Seems the pot is calling the kettle black. You seem to have a corner on running your mouth and showing no class on this board.
:snore: I'm not even going to point out how hypocritical you are being by attacking me right now
. . . Oh wait I just did!
Quote from: 78crusader on January 28, 2012, 05:15:12 PM
Rather than slam the guys on this board who are critical of Edwards, maybe we should all consider what Edwards did. His technicals could have cost us this game and wasted a terrific effort by his teammates. Not only that, he can't play in the next game against Detroit. How is that helping his teammates, who find themselves in the middle of a race for the conference championship?
Doesn't matter that we weren't getting the calls from the refs, or that he was goaded or taunted by the opposing team into losing his temper. He showed very poor judgment and an immature attitude. He is responsible, not guys on the board who call him out for conduct that hurts the team and, by the way, the university. Paul
Thank you!
Quote from: valporun on January 28, 2012, 04:54:25 PM
I thought that Richie was goaded into some of the stuff that got him ejected. Another case of Jeter telling his guys to pick on the most volatile player, so they went for the freshman, and happened to get Richie riled up. We lose him for the Detroit game because of the ejection.
The guys did put up a hard fight. A very strong win in the closing minutes for these guys.
I did mention during the game chat that it might not hurt to try having Rowdy, Kevin, and Vucic in at the same time, maybe that would help our guards shoot the ball some more, since they would have some height to go after rebounds, rather than having our height being about as tall as their physical players inside.
I didn't see the first half of the game, though I have it recorded and will review the game. Therefore, I don't know yet what Edwards did or didn't do and say. Nor do I know whether his actions warranted ejection or the officials were over-reacting to the recent pressure from above. Apparently, two other players received technical fouls as well.
However, I find it amusing that some folks on this board seem so upset. I recall the discussions here last year about how that team was too passive and rolled over when confronted by the antics of a couple other teams in the league, when they should have stood up with a bit more attitude. Okay, maybe Edwards should have been more cautious after the first technical. Still, I'm just saying, perhaps this year's team is a little more feisty, a characteristic some of us have been requesting, and despite the ejection of Edwards, that might be a good thing in the long run.
I also like the idea of Kevin, Vucic (or Edwards), and Rowdy occasionally on the court at the same time, and I am wondering what numbers Rowdy might have next year if he can move from the 4 position to the 3 position with the additional big men eligible. That could be a huge difference.
Don't think there's any rule stating a player that gets two technicals is suspended for the next game.
Quote from: chef on January 28, 2012, 05:27:52 PM
Don't think there's any rule stating a player that gets two technicals is suspended for the next game.
Maybe there isn't a subset of rules for technicals that aren't from a fight, but I guess I was thinking that two technicals resulted in ejection and automatic suspension from the following game.
I thought we had seen Edwards in with Rowdy and Kevin a few times this season, but we'd never seen Kevin, Rowdy, and Vucic in together?
Holy Crapoli! Was not expecting to come home to a W! A nice way to end a lovely afternoon with the future Mrs. (She roots for Valpo mainly because I am far more fun to be around when they win...I guess because she went to Valpo also.) I'll have to watch the last 12 minutes on replay! Very important win!
Quote from: valpofan56 on January 28, 2012, 05:16:16 PM
Quote from: 78crusader on January 28, 2012, 05:15:12 PM
Rather than slam the guys on this board who are critical of Edwards, maybe we should all consider what Edwards did. His technicals could have cost us this game and wasted a terrific effort by his teammates. Not only that, he can't play in the next game against Detroit. How is that helping his teammates, who find themselves in the middle of a race for the conference championship?
Doesn't matter that we weren't getting the calls from the refs, or that he was goaded or taunted by the opposing team into losing his temper. He showed very poor judgment and an immature attitude. He is responsible, not guys on the board who call him out for conduct that hurts the team and, by the way, the university. Paul
Thank you!
Some do a much better job of commenting responsibly on what happened. It is not necessary to jump to hasty conclusions in order to criticize Richie.
Quote from: valpopal on January 28, 2012, 05:27:21 PM
Quote from: valporun on January 28, 2012, 04:54:25 PM
I thought that Richie was goaded into some of the stuff that got him ejected. Another case of Jeter telling his guys to pick on the most volatile player, so they went for the freshman, and happened to get Richie riled up. We lose him for the Detroit game because of the ejection.
The guys did put up a hard fight. A very strong win in the closing minutes for these guys.
I did mention during the game chat that it might not hurt to try having Rowdy, Kevin, and Vucic in at the same time, maybe that would help our guards shoot the ball some more, since they would have some height to go after rebounds, rather than having our height being about as tall as their physical players inside.
I didn't see the first half of the game, though I have it recorded and will review the game. Therefore, I don't know yet what Edwards did or didn't do and say. Nor do I know whether his actions warranted ejection or the officials were over-reacting to the recent pressure from above. Apparently, two other players received technical fouls as well.
However, I find it amusing that some folks on this board seem so upset. I recall the discussions here last year about how that team was too passive and rolled over when confronted by the antics of a couple other teams in the league, when they should have stood up with a bit more attitude. Okay, maybe Edwards should have been more cautious after the first technical. Still, I'm just saying, perhaps this year's team is a little more feisty, a characteristic some of us have been requesting, and despite the ejection of Edwards, that might be a good thing in the long run.
Don't count me in that group. Intensity is one thing. Macho bravado is quite another. Taunting the crowd doesn't put points on the board.
The VU athletic website's account of the game doesn't mention Edward's Ts - Hmmm. :-X
Quote from: valpospartan on January 28, 2012, 06:08:40 PM
The VU athletic website's account of the game doesn't mention Edward's Ts - Hmmm. :-X
An athletic website sugar coated a game story! Stop the presses.
Quote from: valpopal on January 28, 2012, 05:27:21 PM
Quote from: valporun on January 28, 2012, 04:54:25 PM
I thought that Richie was goaded into some of the stuff that got him ejected. Another case of Jeter telling his guys to pick on the most volatile player, so they went for the freshman, and happened to get Richie riled up. We lose him for the Detroit game because of the ejection.
The guys did put up a hard fight. A very strong win in the closing minutes for these guys.
I did mention during the game chat that it might not hurt to try having Rowdy, Kevin, and Vucic in at the same time, maybe that would help our guards shoot the ball some more, since they would have some height to go after rebounds, rather than having our height being about as tall as their physical players inside.
I didn't see the first half of the game, though I have it recorded and will review the game. Therefore, I don't know yet what Edwards did or didn't do and say. Nor do I know whether his actions warranted ejection or the officials were over-reacting to the recent pressure from above. Apparently, two other players received technical fouls as well.
However, I find it amusing that some folks on this board seem so upset. I recall the discussions here last year about how that team was too passive and rolled over when confronted by the antics of a couple other teams in the league, when they should have stood up with a bit more attitude. Okay, maybe Edwards should have been more cautious after the first technical. Still, I'm just saying, perhaps this year's team is a little more feisty, a characteristic some of us have been requesting, and despite the ejection of Edwards, that might be a good thing in the long run.
I also like the idea of Kevin, Vucic (or Edwards), and Rowdy occasionally on the court at the same time, and I am wondering what numbers Rowdy might have next year if he can move from the 4 position to the 3 position with the additional big men eligible. That could be a huge difference.
I hated Dennis Rodman when he was part of the Detroit "Bad Boys." When he became a part of my beloved Bulls, I grew to love him - attitude, technicals and all. Why - because he added an element of toughness and attitude the Bull were sorely in need of (yes stl, I know I ended in a preposition). If Richie can add more hustle to his defensive game and bring some much needed attitude and toughness at the same time, I'll love him as well. Great finish by our guys by the way!
Quote from: StlVUFan on January 28, 2012, 05:42:47 PM
Quote from: valpopal on January 28, 2012, 05:27:21 PM
Quote from: valporun on January 28, 2012, 04:54:25 PM
I thought that Richie was goaded into some of the stuff that got him ejected. Another case of Jeter telling his guys to pick on the most volatile player, so they went for the freshman, and happened to get Richie riled up. We lose him for the Detroit game because of the ejection.
The guys did put up a hard fight. A very strong win in the closing minutes for these guys.
I did mention during the game chat that it might not hurt to try having Rowdy, Kevin, and Vucic in at the same time, maybe that would help our guards shoot the ball some more, since they would have some height to go after rebounds, rather than having our height being about as tall as their physical players inside.
I didn't see the first half of the game, though I have it recorded and will review the game. Therefore, I don't know yet what Edwards did or didn't do and say. Nor do I know whether his actions warranted ejection or the officials were over-reacting to the recent pressure from above. Apparently, two other players received technical fouls as well.
However, I find it amusing that some folks on this board seem so upset. I recall the discussions here last year about how that team was too passive and rolled over when confronted by the antics of a couple other teams in the league, when they should have stood up with a bit more attitude. Okay, maybe Edwards should have been more cautious after the first technical. Still, I'm just saying, perhaps this year's team is a little more feisty, a characteristic some of us have been requesting, and despite the ejection of Edwards, that might be a good thing in the long run.
Don't count me in that group. Intensity is one thing. Macho bravado is quite another. Taunting the crowd doesn't put points on the board.
Apparently, Coach Jeter admired the attitude shown by Valpo in this game as well:
"I'm very impressed with Valpo — their toughness, their grittiness," UWM coach Rob Jeter said. "From the first play of the game, you knew it was going to be an edgy game. They never backed down, they never backed off, they really kept coming at us. As a result you get the technicals and all the things that happened. We tried to keep the cooler heads, but at the end, we were a little too cool, maybe. If we could have been a little nastier, maybe we could have gotten some of those rebounds and some of those 50-50 balls."
http://posttrib.suntimes.com/sports/10295153-556/crusaders-rally-for-crucial-road-win.html (http://posttrib.suntimes.com/sports/10295153-556/crusaders-rally-for-crucial-road-win.html)
As a side note, kudos to the students who made the bus trip up, it looked like a nice showing on the video. Even though they were in the upper section I could here some orchestrated FT chants and a couple of "let's go Valpo" cheers. UWM has become a nice rival for us, and perhaps one with a little more heat to it now that all of the members of the 07-08 team who lost that devastating game to Butler have graduated.
http://sectionee.blogspot.com/2012/01/weekend-wrap-up-wisconsin-split.html (http://sectionee.blogspot.com/2012/01/weekend-wrap-up-wisconsin-split.html)
Not a fan of that second T. Even less of a fan of the fist pump. But unless there is a HL rule about a one gamer he won't be suspended. The NCAA has no rule like that in place except for maybe fighting. Anyways, good win and I take a shot at Kaylon Williams in this post. Hope you like it. Looking forward to home games this weekend and a HOF induction!
Quote from: govalpogo on January 28, 2012, 08:26:11 PM
As a side note, kudos to the students who made the bus trip up, it looked like a nice showing on the video. Even though they were in the upper section I could here some orchestrated FT chants and a couple of "let's go Valpo" cheers. UWM has become a nice rival for us, and perhaps one with a little more heat to it now that all of the members of the 07-08 team who lost that devastating game to Butler have graduated.
I agree that Milw has become a good rivalry. For one thing their fans are everything Butler fans aren't. They make it a point to become educated about the other teams and opposing players. The vast majority of Butler fans are totally absorbed by their own program and its past success. They don't want to waste their time learning about other teams in a league they think they're too good for. Their game thread comments are superficial (almost childlike) because they don't know anything of substance. Milw fans care about the league. They genuinely root for us when we play OOC games because they care about the conf. and its image. Butler fans "root" for the other HL teams strictly out of concern for their own RPI and program image. Bottom line: Milw fans are to be respected; Butler fans are to be tolerated. One thing I do have in common with Butler fans - they don't consider us their rival and I will never consider them ours.
Agreed! Milwaukee fans are fantastic. Loved the tweets today from their side throughout and after the game. Great rivalry!
Read their board, very classy and even handed comments. One of the comments toned negatively about Valpo (Edwards specifically) came from one of our own interestingly enough...
Quote from: 78crusader on January 28, 2012, 05:15:12 PM
Rather than slam the guys on this board who are critical of Edwards, maybe we should all consider what Edwards did. His technicals could have cost us this game and wasted a terrific effort by his teammates. Not only that, he can't play in the next game against Detroit. How is that helping his teammates, who find themselves in the middle of a race for the conference championship?
Doesn't matter that we weren't getting the calls from the refs, or that he was goaded or taunted by the opposing team into losing his temper. He showed very poor judgment and an immature attitude. He is responsible, not guys on the board who call him out for conduct that hurts the team and, by the way, the university. Paul
There is a BIG difference between calling for a kid to be kicked off the team, calling him a "piece of crap", a "giant head case", saying he acted "like a complete ass", saying he was "running his damn mouth" or that "the kid is a thug", and, as you suggest, saying he "showed very poor judgement and an immature attitude".
Perhaps if was the messenger or the immature delivery. I agree that Richie needs to control thr aggression but also agree with wh when he says we need the tough attitude which perhaps we lacked last year.
Good tough win, Riche he's young, he can grow up, 56, well I have my doubt's about that.
I have heard that the second tech on Ritchie was crap, also the tech on Matt was crap. What's wrong with showing a bit of enthusiasm and emotion at hitting a 3? I remember a couple of years back at an away game I was at, Brandon got a tech after hitting a 3 and all he was doing was showing the same enthusiasm and emotion. The refs are a bit precious and need to grow a pair. How sad for one of our own fans to get on the Milwaukee board and bag Ritchie, don't see any fans from any of the other teams getting on our board and bagging one of their own :-X
Quote from: vu72 on January 28, 2012, 09:46:43 PM
Quote from: 78crusader on January 28, 2012, 05:15:12 PM
Rather than slam the guys on this board who are critical of Edwards, maybe we should all consider what Edwards did. His technicals could have cost us this game and wasted a terrific effort by his teammates. Not only that, he can't play in the next game against Detroit. How is that helping his teammates, who find themselves in the middle of a race for the conference championship?
Doesn't matter that we weren't getting the calls from the refs, or that he was goaded or taunted by the opposing team into losing his temper. He showed very poor judgment and an immature attitude. He is responsible, not guys on the board who call him out for conduct that hurts the team and, by the way, the university. Paul
Perhaps if was the messenger or the immature delivery. I agree that Richie needs to control thr aggression but also agree with wh when he says we need the tough attitude which perhaps we lacked last year.
'72 are you ESL?
according to Matt's twitter account he made the ref give him a T
:thumbsup:
WAY TO GO!!! Sure enjoyed the game.
Another reason to disapprove of Ritchie's 2nd T -- if taunting is indeed what he did: The Crossroads Debacle earlier this year, the one that led to at least half a dozen suspensions?
Started with a little taunting. Incompetent refs helped, of course.
Interestingly enough, the team that got hit the hardest by suspensions came back strong. The team that got off lightly fell off the map for a while and has lots of company at the top of the A-10. And that was the team that thought they had to react verbally to a little trash talk. Hardly seems worth it now.
I'd rather see intensity show up in their play and leave the trash talk to the fans.
Quote from: valporun on January 28, 2012, 04:54:25 PM
I thought that Richie was goaded into some of the stuff that got him ejected. Another case of Jeter telling his guys to pick on the most volatile player, so they went for the freshman, and happened to get Richie riled up. We lose him for the Detroit game because of the ejection.
I can tell you right now that he was not "goaded" into anything.
When he originally started talking the trash - the double technical on he and Williams - he was repeatedly saying to Kaylon "You know where the f*** I'm from?" and when Kaylon was laughing because of such a weird intimidation. Edwards didn't get the response he was looking for, so he said something a little worse, and that got the rise out of Williams. It's so stupid how guys need to compare their johnsons sometimes, and those two acted like knuckleheads. Deserving T's on both sides.
The second one was completely unprovoked. He hit the three - a big play - and then immediately turned to our bench, who had said nothing (can't do much taunting after a big 3 just hit you), and continued saying some real verbal garbage.
Matt Kenney was the other player that I just couldn't get. He was rude, talking trash as much as Eli Holman does, and wasn't getting any response - Jeter had told the team to not engage in any of it because of the T on Williams.
Other than that, I was very pleased with everyone from Valpo. You guys run a class program, your coaching staff is personable and gracious, and the players that I spoke with shortly - namely Broekhoff, Buggs and Van Wijk - seemed like really nice guys.
Valpo just seems like the kind of atmosphere that puts out a lot of very good people and a couple douchebags. Every time we come down there for games, everyone is so nice and gracious, then you get the one fan who throws stuff at you or says some really pointed racist comment that spoils the fun.
Don't know why that is. Usually it's the other way around - you get a school like Detroit, which has a couple really nice guys like Reggie and Ben Lee, and a whole bunch of turds.
Quote from: koala on January 28, 2012, 10:20:56 PM
I have heard that the second tech on Ritchie was crap, also the tech on Matt was crap. What's wrong with showing a bit of enthusiasm and emotion at hitting a 3? I remember a couple of years back at an away game I was at, Brandon got a tech after hitting a 3 and all he was doing was showing the same enthusiasm and emotion. The refs are a bit precious and need to grow a pair. How sad for one of our own fans to get on the Milwaukee board and bag Ritchie, don't see any fans from any of the other teams getting on our board and bagging one of their own :-X
If you can get a chance, watch the game again. I watched it a second time at home with our home audio, and Richie's words are clear in Bill Johnson's microphone (he sits in the first seat next to the bench). It was definitely worth the price of a T.
I didn't hear what exactly Kenney said myself, only second hand, but he apparently didn't like a call or a non-call, told the ref as much, the ref disagreed with him, and Kenney said something that the ref took issue with. The players I talked to (our guys) had differing views - one said that Kenney practically asked for a technical, the other said he shouldn't have gotten it but they weren't taking any more guff once Edwards was bounced.
Aside from that, someone asked why Kaylon Williams walks with a limp. He has a nagging ankle injury that has been bothering him since the Wisconsin game on December 12th.
I have had a chance now to see my recording of the game. The first technical on Edwards was part of a double technical involving Milwaukee's Williams in the middle of a multi-player scrum. The second technical appeared to be an overreaction by the official. I replayed the incident a couple times, and though I don't know what he said and would be willing to consider his words, the physical action of Edwards didn't seem to do much to cause a technical.
One could defend the call due to the memo that went out to officials insisting they call more technical fouls, as well as for the fact that this game was extremely physical. Still, in almost any other circumstance in the past that second technical would not have been called. However, I can't see any defense for the overreactions by posters here that even included a call for Edwards to be kicked off the team.
Clearly, players were pounding one another on just about every possession. On a number of instances I saw Ryan and Matt get smacked in the head or the face on drives without any foul being called, and there was blood as evidence. Nevertheless, I was pleased to see Valpo didn't back down, and the physical play was also used by the Crusaders, especially Kevin. Maybe it is the players or maybe it is Bryce's style of coaching, but this year's team seems a bit more willing to mix it up on the court if needed.
As for Ryan: he made a number of amazing moves and circus shots, even while being mugged each time he went to the basket. His terrific performance again gave further support to him as leading candidate for the conference Player of the Year.
Quote from: valpopal on January 29, 2012, 01:31:25 AM
I have had a chance now to see my recording of the game. The first technical on Edwards was part of a double technical involving Milwaukee's Williams in the middle of a multi-player scrum. The second technical appeared to be an overreaction by the official. I replayed the incident a couple times, and though I don't know what he said and would be willing to consider his words, the physical action of Edwards didn't seem to do much to cause a technical.
One could defend the call due to the memo that went out to officials insisting they call more technical fouls, as well as for the fact that this game was extremely physical. Still, in almost any other circumstance in the past that second technical would not have been called. However, I can't see any defense for the overreactions by posters here that even included a call for Edwards to be kicked off the team.
Clearly, players were pounding one another on just about every possession. On a number of instances I saw Ryan and Matt get smacked in the head or the face on drives without any foul being called, and there was blood as evidence. Nevertheless, I was pleased to see Valpo didn't back down, and the physical play was also used by the Crusaders, especially Kevin. Maybe it is the players or maybe it is Bryce's style of coaching, but this year's team seems a bit more willing to mix it up on the court if needed.
As for Ryan: he made a number of amazing moves and circus shots, even while being mugged each time he went to the basket. His terrific performance again gave further support to him as leading candidate for the conference Player of the Year.
:clap: :clap:
I am trying to stay positive because I am proud of my team.... (players, coaches, fans) I wanted to leave it at that..
However, some of the garbage being posted on this thread is annoying(about Edwards). It is not very supportive of a "team".
1. I was at the game - if you were not their you should think about what you "know" before you post.
2. I also watched the replay on ESPN (ipad app) - many things stated in this thread are INCORRECT.
3. any college team is a group of young kids learning - a game, teamwork and about themselves (this is a learning opportunity)
4. Name calling and saying someone should be gone because of Passion and emotion is not fair.... Tomorrow some of you will post that someone should be gone for the opposite (hell there were some players with less than "passionate" impact on Saturday's game.)
4. has VU ever really let us down when it comes to making the good (right) decisions about what is important
Now, with that said - the first technical was two players trying to establish their presence. The second Edwards technical was NOT something that usually gets a technical. I watch a lot of basketball and have seen so many thing deserving of a technical. He NEVER turned to the bench or another player to say anything as a few of you have said. i have seen this Ref before and sometimes he interjects himself too much into the game. (if there is some hidden video showing more give me a link)
Now Bryce - who I respect - can work with the team to ensure they walk that "wavey-gray" line between being aggressive and being appropriately passionate.
Quote from: blackpantheruwm on January 29, 2012, 01:27:06 AM
Quote from: koala on January 28, 2012, 10:20:56 PM
I have heard that the second tech on Ritchie was crap, also the tech on Matt was crap. What's wrong with showing a bit of enthusiasm and emotion at hitting a 3? I remember a couple of years back at an away game I was at, Brandon got a tech after hitting a 3 and all he was doing was showing the same enthusiasm and emotion. The refs are a bit precious and need to grow a pair. How sad for one of our own fans to get on the Milwaukee board and bag Ritchie, don't see any fans from any of the other teams getting on our board and bagging one of their own :-X
If you can get a chance, watch the game again. I watched it a second time at home with our home audio, and Richie's words are clear in Bill Johnson's microphone (he sits in the first seat next to the bench). It was definitely worth the price of a T.
I didn't hear what exactly Kenney said myself, only second hand, but he apparently didn't like a call or a non-call, told the ref as much, the ref disagreed with him, and Kenney said something that the ref took issue with. The players I talked to (our guys) had differing views - one said that Kenney practically asked for a technical, the other said he shouldn't have gotten it but they weren't taking any more guff once Edwards was bounced.
Aside from that, someone asked why Kaylon Williams walks with a limp. He has a nagging ankle injury that has been bothering him since the Wisconsin game on December 12th.
It's hard to discuss Richie's 2nd T because none of us were there, and your audio play-by-play is most likely not archived. That said, I won't strongly dispute your account either. About all I can say is I can't dismiss the possibility.
As for Kenney, the last post before yours is the first person I've heard who wanted to dispute that one. Even our play-by-play guys didn't dispute it. Matt is a fiery player. I have no trouble believing he is capable of going too far like that.
If some of our players were talking trash all game long, I have little use for that. I'm with you on guys "comparing their johnsons." It's just plain stupid, on top of everything. It backfires at least as often as it helps, assuming there's any cause-and-effect at all.
If you're trying to understand it, I could take a wild guess. Basketball-wise, Valpo over their first 4 HL years has seemed soft in league play more often than not. We still seem so when driving to the hole for contested layups. Amateur athletes have been known to think that trash talking helps make them more grindy :crazy:
Bryce's comments on Edwards:
Valparaiso coach Bryce Drew defended Richie Edwards after Saturday's intense victory at Milwaukee. Edwards was ejected in the first half after picking up two technical fouls -- the first during a scrum for a loose ball and the second for taunting either the crowd or the Milwaukee bench (depending on whom you ask) after hitting a 3-pointer.... Drew didn't seem to think the second tech on Edwards was warranted. "When you get to know Richie, he's a sensational kid," Drew said. "When he makes shots, after he made that 3-pointer, that's what he does in practice. He just loves the game and he loves celebrating after good things happen. That's just Richie."
http://blogs.post-trib.com/lazerus/2012/01/richie-edwards-taunting-and-te.html (http://blogs.post-trib.com/lazerus/2012/01/richie-edwards-taunting-and-te.html)
http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/dissecting-saturday-s-technical-fouls/article_2950e246-4aee-11e1-bc2e-0019bb2963f4.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/dissecting-saturday-s-technical-fouls/article_2950e246-4aee-11e1-bc2e-0019bb2963f4.html)
From the paper that hasn't -- yet -- limited free page views per month.
Funny how the refs say Richie started the scrum for the first T, as if you watch, Williams is the one that started talking the trash first after Richie was battling another guy for a rebound. Richie responded to that, to which Williams responded again. When it was happening, I was worried that Richie would be the only one with a T, as it is always the guy that reacts that gets caught, not the instigator. Both deserved the T for this one.
Hilarious that they say, 'in our estimation, he turned to the Milwaukee bench and taunted following a made shot' for the second one. The estimation portion leads me to believe they just heard him and assumed he was yelling at Milwaukee because of the earlier instance, rather than celebrating a huge basket in general.
Perhaps he will have learned his lesson for future instances. It is not a bad idea just to play the game and let your actions speak for themselves.
How "old school" of me! Today's game is often more about bravado and style rather than results.
Now, that being said...I attended nearly 200 games during the Homer Drew era and absolutely admire what he accomplished and HOW he did it. But, let's face it, officials knew coming into the ARC they had an easy game. Homer seldom confronted the officials and it showed. Then, when we moved to the HL, it seemed at times we had to prove ourselves as the new team.
I like a little edginess in players and coaches. It has to be contained and it has to be used in the proper doses. There is a fine line between my first comments and the last. However, there are simply times when you have to stand up and say no more. Let's see...one tough road trip, 1 win/1 loss, 4 technicals, 1 ejection. Overall, not bad.
Now, let's see if the players understand that.
lowposter
I was in attendance at the Cell Saturday, and can say this. By far, the worst officiated game I've ever seen at any level and I've attended hundreds of hoops games in my life. Richie's first "T" was a ghost call. No one there had any idea. The second, though, after he hit the three, was obviously him saying something he shouldn't have as he ran past the official. Kid was totally stoked about the impact he'd just made and got a bit too stoked.
THis game was the exact opposite of most VU games. IN the first half, a solid 3A team would've outplayed them. They were terrible. SOme of that had to do with the officiating, but a lot of it didn't. They were terrible. Second half, though, their D stepped up and flustered UWM. It reversed ... Panthers couldn't do anything in the second half. And when VU finally took a lead they stepped it up a notch to make sure they got the win.
Very proud of their second half ...
Exciting game.
For those wondering about Vashil Fernandez, I found him--playing for Milwaukee!!
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/panthers/pantmen29-6l3vbb5-138266664.html (http://www.jsonline.com/sports/panthers/pantmen29-6l3vbb5-138266664.html)
Quote from: vu72 on January 30, 2012, 02:37:15 PM
For those wondering about Vashil Fernandez, I found him--playing for Milwaukee!!
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/panthers/pantmen29-6l3vbb5-138266664.html (http://www.jsonline.com/sports/panthers/pantmen29-6l3vbb5-138266664.html)
Haha. Quality journalism.
From there, Valparaiso got another off-balance shot from Broekhoff, who hit at least three fading, twirling, Tasmanian devil shots in traffic - all adjustments needed because of UWM's stifling defense.
What? The J-S is a very well respected, solid paper. What the hell kind of journalism is this? This is something you'd find in a high school paper.
The NCAA memo on calling technicals is causing quite the stir...
http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/46631/officials-chief-john-adams-explains-memo (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/46631/officials-chief-john-adams-explains-memo)
I saw an excellent tweet the other day from one of the BIAH RoadTrip guys, something like: referees who swallow their whistle in an effort to avoid impacting the game, impact the game by doing so.
The tweet said it much more clearly and succinctly, but I totally agree with them. Any referee who is afraid to blow his whistle when the rules dictate it, regardless of the game context, should be fired.
I agree with this directive.
Quote from: milldew72 on January 30, 2012, 03:08:30 PM
From there, Valparaiso got another off-balance shot from Broekhoff, who hit at least three fading, twirling, Tasmanian devil shots in traffic - all adjustments needed because of UWM's stifling defense.
What? The J-S is a very well respected, solid paper. What the hell kind of journalism is this? This is something you'd find in a high school paper.
Put it this way. The JS has gotten so bad that it has been suggested to me by several people inside and outside the program that I should switch PantherU.com to a paying model that will net me the $ needed to cover the Panthers like a beat writer that happens to be a fan.
The new directive for controlling the game seems reasonable to me.
Now that the players and coaches know the rules, abide by them. Keep your mouths shut and play the game. Play hard, play fair, and give no quarter.
lowposter
Quote from: lowposter on January 31, 2012, 10:09:14 AM
The new directive for controlling the game seems reasonable to me.
Now that the players and coaches know the rules, abide by them. Keep your mouths shut and play the game. Play hard, play fair, and give no quarter.
lowposter
:clap:
Quote from: vu72 on January 30, 2012, 02:37:15 PMFor those wondering about Vashil Fernandez, I found him--playing for Milwaukee!!
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/panthers/pantmen29-6l3vbb5-138266664.html
Can hardly believe this error did not get caught by someone! How did they ever mix Gulley up with Fernandez, a guy who is on the other team and does not even dress for VU??