i don't see us winning at csu either. yeah, we caused them matchup problems before. but pogue has improved his play of late, and playing at their place means they're gonna get away with far more than they would on the road.
csu wins thursday 72-67.
valpo trumps ysu saturday 77-65.
By the way I think CSU has their bracketbuster sandwiched between the Wisconsin trips, which means two long road trips. Looks like our schedule from last year. (If I am remembering correctly). But agree, CSU has been the most difficult place for us to play at since returning to the Horizon. It seems like we start way too sluggishly and suddenly are down 8-10 and always climbing the hill. We need a fast start to begin both halves.
CSU is riding high, but maybe they'll look past us for Butler and the 11 am start on Saturday. (SI)
I ran my PPS formula for the major players and both teams for Thursday, http://sectionee.blogspot.com/2012/02/pps-statistical-preview-for-thursday.html (http://sectionee.blogspot.com/2012/02/pps-statistical-preview-for-thursday.html)
As far as matchups, I think KVW is a definate mismatch. I do think that Grady (he is pretty tall if I'm thinking of the right guy) can guard Rowdy. I'll take Valpo 76-74 as long as they stay at or below 15 turnovers.
Quote from: sectionee on February 06, 2012, 08:42:09 PM
I ran my PPS formula for the major players and both teams for Thursday, http://sectionee.blogspot.com/2012/02/pps-statistical-preview-for-thursday.html (http://sectionee.blogspot.com/2012/02/pps-statistical-preview-for-thursday.html)
As far as matchups, I think KVW is a definate mismatch. I do think that Grady (he is pretty tall if I'm thinking of the right guy) can guard Rowdy. I'll take Valpo 76-74 as long as they stay at or below 15 turnovers.
Grady is 6'8": though he stepped in for the injured Brown against UIC, he could be developing into the best sixth man in the league. He is 17-21 in field goals his last three games, during which he also twice had double-doubles. His play could be the deciding factor in this game.
Hey guys, Cleveland State fan here hoping to talk some basketball. If you don't mind, I'm going to quote a few things I saw so far on this thread. Feel free to ask any questions.
Quote from: vuweathernerd on February 06, 2012, 04:56:12 PMi don't see us winning at csu either. yeah, we caused them matchup problems before. but pogue has improved his play of late, and playing at their place means they're gonna get away with far more than they would on the road. csu wins thursday 72-67. valpo trumps ysu saturday 77-65.
Pogue was playing through a leg injury for much of the season. He's just recently started to get healthy and his play has reflected that. Even with that fact, he's never been a consistent player for us and he's still not a great defender (and he still gets in foul trouble). With all that being said, I expect a better effort out of him this time around simply because he's healthy. I also expect a different defensive game-plan than the box and one and constant fronting of Van Wijk that we saw last time.
Either way, your bigs definitely are a concern for us, as we don't have a good match-up for Broekhoff or Van Wijk defensively.
As I'm sure you know, D'Aundray Brown is our best defender and even at 6-4 he can usually go toe-to-toe with other team's power forwards. The difference with Broekhoff is that he's able to play like a guard on the perimeter and his 6-7 length gives him the advantage. I honestly think Brown would rather bang in the post against a 6-7 forward than play a player like Broekhoff on the outside. Also, Brown was injured in the victory over Loyola and did not play at UIC. He's questionable for this game and I would be surprised to see him play. That would make us bigger because 6-8 Anton Grady would start (sliding 6-6 Tim Kamczyc from the 4 to the 3), but Grady isn't near the defender that Brown is and he's not as quick either.
Quote from: valpopal on February 06, 2012, 09:34:11 PMQuote from: sectionee on February 06, 2012, 08:42:09 PMI ran my PPS formula for the major players and both teams for Thursday, As far as matchups, I think KVW is a definate mismatch. I do think that Grady (he is pretty tall if I'm thinking of the right guy) can guard Rowdy. I'll take Valpo 76-74 as long as they stay at or below 15 turnovers.
Grady is 6'8": though he stepped in for the injured Brown against UIC, he could be developing into the best sixth man in the league. He is 17-21 in field goals his last three games, during which he also twice had double-doubles. His play could be the deciding factor in this game.
Grady has been playing great lately. He can post up, hit the mid range jumper and drive past bigger defenders. He's also our best rebounder and shot blocker. He will be our best player next year and I truly believe he has the potential to be one of the top players in the Horizon League in the next two years. I agree that he can be the deciding factor, but both ways. He gives us a more consistent threat in the post and he can challenge more shots around the rim than Brown (or Pogue). But on the flip side, if he gets matched up with Broekhoff, it will be his first real test defending on the perimeter as he's played most of his minutes at the five spot this year.
Quote from: valpo84 on February 06, 2012, 06:48:42 PMBy the way I think CSU has their bracketbuster sandwiched between the Wisconsin trips, which means two long road trips. Looks like our schedule from last year. (If I am remembering correctly). But agree, CSU has been the most difficult place for us to play at since returning to the Horizon. It seems like we start way too sluggishly and suddenly are down 8-10 and always climbing the hill. We need a fast start to begin both halves. CSU is riding high, but maybe they'll look past us for Butler and the 11 am start on Saturday. (SI)
This is correct regarding the Bracketbuster. We play at Milwaukee on Tuesday, we're home for Drexel on Saturday and we're back to Green Bay the following Tuesday (exact same as you guys last year). Tough draw. Both games will be a challenge, but that Green Bay game really scares me on the back end of that trip and following the nationally televised Drexel game.
As for this week, now that we got the Butler monkey off our backs, I don't see us overlooking you guys for them on Saturday. Remember that last year we were in this exact same situation. We were one game up on Milwaukee when they came to our place with a chance to put some separation between us and the rest of the league. Milwaukee beat us in that game and we went from hosting the tournament to the third seed. I'm not saying we're going to win, but if we don't it won't be because we overlooked you.
Valpo 72
CSU 68
Kamczyc is the guy who worries me. He almost killed us last time going 7 of 8 from the field including 2 of 2 from the 3, for 18 points. Looking at the box score, the game was incredibly even. Both teams made 6 3's and 12 FTs. CSU had 16 assts to only 10 TOs while they forced us into 16 TOs. They did have 23 fouls to our 13 and outrebounded us 32-29. Still, we won and the only reason I can figure was that we were fresher at the end of the game. CSU play basicly 6 guys meaningful minutes, while we played 8. Will that be the same this time? Does CSU continue to use a short bench?
I know Ryan is banged up and don't have any idea how he will be by game time. Our depth and 3 point shooting will be critical. If we go 1 for 17 like we did earlier against Milwaukee we will be doomed. On the other hand, if we go 8 for 17 like we did against Wright State, we will be hard to beat.
Ryan:
That is a brutal trip for CSU. It was tough for VU...and Cleveland is another 250 miles. The Wisconsin trip is normally tough anyway, then throw in 440 miles from CSU to UWM then 440 back home, play a game, then back to Green Bay (552 miles), play and return 552 miles...ouch.
This bracketbuster is like going out on a date with a high maintenance woman...is it worth it?
lowposter
Ryan, how deep is the CSU bench? With brown limits at best do you think they just shorten their rotation or is there another guy who will get more minutes?
Bracketbuster is not worth it at all. I don't think we get an at-large this year even with a Drexel win. If that game costs us a conference loss I'll be upset.
CSU's bench is pretty inconsistent outside of Grady (to be expected from all freshman and sophomores). 6-6 freshman Marlin Mason will play more at the 3 with Brown out. Mason was supposed to red shirt but he started playing towards the middle of the conference season after a season ending injury to one of our backup guards (which started the problems with our depth).
Our backup PG, Charlie Lee, has been playing better as of late, which allows us to play Montgomery off the ball more. You'll probably see us go small at times with Lee (5-9) at the point with Montgomery (6-1) and Harmon (6-1) on the wings together.
Waters seems to tighten up the rotation when we're down, which is why we basically went with 6 at your place, but Mason and Lee will definitely get minutes, and one of two sophomore big men (6-9 Ndaye or 6-7 Long) will be pressed into service with Grady now starting.
Interesting how the schedule worked out this year. No wonder Butler opted out of the Bracketbuster last season. Although maybe Homer's whining about the schedule and the Bracketbuster's effect on the schedule really paid off for Valpo this season with the schedule Cleveland State ended up with.
Valpo 80
CSU 77
I'm not sure, but I don't think historyman's statement that Butler opted out of the Bracketbuster last year is exactly correct. I believe they requested and received permission to skip it for a year in order to schedule a repeat of the previous season's NCAA championship game against Duke to open the year. It may have been a "made-by-TV" game since it was nationally televised. Nevertheless, the continuing value of Bracketbuster participation is worthy of discussion -- it has enhanced our schedule (adding a couple of teams a year we might not otherwise get scheduled, especially at home, including Missouri State and Loyola Marymount -- but perhaps at a cost.
Quote from: sliman on February 08, 2012, 11:39:36 AMI'm not sure, but I don't think historyman's statement that Butler opted out of the Bracketbuster last year is exactly correct. I believe they requested and received permission to skip it for a year in order to schedule a repeat of the previous season's NCAA championship game against Duke to open the year. It may have been a "made-by-TV" game since it was nationally televised. Nevertheless, the continuing value of Bracketbuster participation is worthy of discussion -- it has enhanced our schedule (adding a couple of teams a year we might not otherwise get scheduled, especially at home, including Missouri State and Loyola Marymount -- but perhaps at a cost.
One of the things that I value most about the Horizon League is the fair and balanced schedule. If we can find a way to incorporate the Bracketbuster without changing the dynamics of the league schedule, then I'm all for it. But this year, YSU traveled to Milwaukee on the Tuesday before the Chicago trip and they don't return to Green Bay until the Tuesday after the Bracketbuster. Why didn't we (CSU) do the same (Green Bay before Chicago and Milwaukee after BB)?
Also, I would think it would be possible to schedule every team against their travel partner the week of the BB so that there is only one conference game that week. It could be scheduled on a Wednesday to allow teams the time to make the trip home or to their BB opponent.
The last thing I want to think about right now is a non conference game that might not even matter, especially when it's causing so much extra travel and a brutal five games in 11 days schedule to close out the season.
And none of that even mentions the fact that the BB is such a crap shoot. CSU hasn't faired well in matchups over the years. We got stuck with a terrible Toledo team a couple years back and it killed our rpi (and had to return that game this year, which killed our rpi), we got sent out to California for CSU-Northridge one year, at a so-so Marist team another year, and even this year Drexel is more than 20 spots below us in the rpi. Really, the only games that could have been beneficial to us were at Wichita State and at Old Dominion, and we were big underdogs in both games.
You forget that Butler is a rival for Valpo (much more than YSU is a rival for CSU) and playing that game on a Wednesday of bracketbuster week would not make the most of possible attendance numbers. We have to play Butler on a weekend. I'm sure the same is true of Milwaukee & Green Bay.
Maybe the HL should just mix up the travel partners a little for next season as was previously suggested (don't remember who, sorry). Or just eliminate travel partners all together.
Quote from: sliman on February 08, 2012, 11:39:36 AMI believe they requested and received permission to skip it for a year in order to schedule a repeat of the previous season's NCAA championship game against Duke to open the year.
Isn't that basically opting out?
Quote from: historyman on February 08, 2012, 01:08:45 PMYou forget that Butler is a rival for Valpo (much more than YSU is a rival for CSU) and playing that game on a Wednesday of bracketbuster week would not make the most of possible attendance numbers. We have to play Butler on a weekend. I'm sure the same is true of Milwaukee & Green Bay. Maybe the HL should just mix up the travel partners a little for next season as was previously suggested (don't remember who, sorry). Or just eliminate travel partners all together.
Good point, that frankly I wouldn't have thought of because of our "rivalry" with YSU.
I like the travel partners and woudn't want to see them get mixed up. Makes no sense to travel to Wisconsin twice, or Chicago, Indiana, Ohio, etc.
I still think there has to be a better way than what they're doing now to schedule around the bracketbuster. And worst case, they should make it uniform (like sending us and YSU on the same trip, instead of them spreading it out and us packing it into one week).
The early lines on the game have Valpo as a 9 point underdog. In the last game, Vegas was exactly right in selecting Valpo a 9 point favorite, as the Crusaders won 63-54 over Wright State. I am afraid the oddsmakers may be correct again:
Valpo 61
CSU 70
Quote from: valpopal on February 08, 2012, 02:19:51 PMThe early lines on the game have Valpo as a 9 point underdog. In the last game, Vegas was exactly right in selecting Valpo a 9 point favorite, as the Crusaders won 63-54 over Wright State. I am afraid the oddsmakers may be correct again: Valpo 61 CSU 70
I think the odds makers are looking at the fact that we've won our last four games by 18+ and five in a row by double digits. They're also looking at Valpo's track record at the Wolstein Center. I don't think they're taking into account the match-up problems that you give us and the fact that D'Aundray Brown is doubtful. No way do I see a 9 point victory (of course I'd take it :) )
Historyman, I value your contributions to this board and hope I didn't offend you. I responded because I interpreted Butler "opting out" of the Bracketbuster to imply that the decision was theirs alone when it's my understanding that they had to get permission to skip the Bracketbuster last year. Since the conference participates in Bracketbuster, I don't think teams can choose not to participate unless they can make a case why they should be an exception. But perhaps I'm wrong.
It's up to 9.5 points with an o/u of 131.5
Quote from: CSURyan on February 08, 2012, 01:17:55 PM
Quote from: historyman on February 08, 2012, 01:08:45 PMYou forget that Butler is a rival for Valpo (much more than YSU is a rival for CSU) and playing that game on a Wednesday of bracketbuster week would not make the most of possible attendance numbers. We have to play Butler on a weekend. I'm sure the same is true of Milwaukee & Green Bay. Maybe the HL should just mix up the travel partners a little for next season as was previously suggested (don't remember who, sorry). Or just eliminate travel partners all together.
Good point, that frankly I wouldn't have thought of because of our "rivalry" with YSU.
I like the travel partners and woudn't want to see them get mixed up. Makes no sense to travel to Wisconsin twice, or Chicago, Indiana, Ohio, etc.
I still think there has to be a better way than what they're doing now to schedule around the bracketbuster. And worst case, they should make it uniform (like sending us and YSU on the same trip, instead of them spreading it out and us packing it into one week).
Agreed on most points. I do believe that CSU could be teamed with Detroit and YSU with WSU. Also Valpo with Loyola and Butler with UIC. That would help with the Chicago schools picking up some of that "Butler/Valpo hangover."
Quote from: sliman on February 08, 2012, 04:53:16 PM
Historyman, I value your contributions to this board and hope I didn't offend you. I responded because I interpreted Butler "opting out" of the Bracketbuster to imply that the decision was theirs alone when it's my understanding that they had to get permission to skip the Bracketbuster last year. Since the conference participates in Bracketbuster, I don't think teams can choose not to participate unless they can make a case why they should be an exception. But perhaps I'm wrong.
Unfortunately right now the HL will kiss Butler's ass if they ask. Butler is bringing a ton of money into the conference for the next 5 years at least. You're probably correct that other HL teams might not get permission from LeCrone to skip out on the bracketbuster. The bracketbuster helps way too much with pub when the games might be on one of the ESPN channels.
No fear. I also hope I didn't offend you. I just laugh when I think what Butler gets away with in this league. Murray State has the same leeway in the Ohio Valley.
I didn't mean to imply that other schools might not get permission to skip the Bracketbuster for a year. If one gets an opportunity for a national TV game against the defending national champion, who knows -- especially if the HL team was runner-up.
Great write up at letsgovikes: http://www.letsgovikes.com/node/624 (http://www.letsgovikes.com/node/624)
Sounds like a pretty solid atmosphere tonight. Their fans are predicting over 5000 (their place seats 8500) so it won't exactly be like 5000 at the ARC, but still a good turnout. Should be fun!!
I believe that if we can control and win the first and last five minutes of each half, we will have a good shot at winning this game, unless of course the wheels come off during any middle 10 minute stretch and we allow a run that we cannot overcome. I honestly don't see that possibility happening though if we start and finish each half strong. Hoping for the best.
Don't forget you can watch the game and chat with your fellow Fan Zone members by opening up the "Game Day" portion, at the bottom of the message board.
If I was Edwards and Broekhoff I wouldn't go near a Cle State player if possible. That was a deliberate take out of Kevin. You can't leave that injured after a scrum.
I can't blame kenney at all for the intentional foul. You have to stand up for yourself somewhere.
Although it is time for Valpo to play the game instead of just waiting for the game to end and fight back the correct way.
Game over -- VU win (by a lot). Just caught most of the second half. Seems like Bryce has got the boys playing better and better defense and playing overall smart ball. Heard from the announcers that KVW was hurt. Hope it wasn't bad. The rest of you BB experts take it from here. But VU is in first in the HL -- pretty cool.
Most dominating win of the year? I think so. No Kevin, no problem (let's hope he is OK) And that Richie guy? Should be kicked off the team. Way to good. Looked like a Junior College All American. We can't have that stuff!
Anyway, a GREAT win and we had them off their game from the opening tip. Now, on to YSU and a must win!!
Just got home from a church voter's meeting. Saw the last 3 minutes. Could not believe my eyes when I saw the score. Had tried to follow the game on Game Tracker but it was not working properly. What happened to Kevin? I am going crazy from information deprivation!!!!
Chef just said Kevin's knee injury did not seem too serious. Really hope Kevin can play against Youngstown. We have to play just as seriously against the Penguins as we did against Cleveland State. Can't take YSU lightly at all. Or UIC. Or Loyola.
Amazing. Holding Cleveland State to 41 points at their place, simply amazing. 41 points..that sounds more like a half than a final score.
First place with all the tie breakers...RPI Predictor was a 13-point CSU win...rare to see that off by 31 points on the spread...CSU was at 58 and Valpo at 103 for today's rankings...WarrenNolan's Realtime RPI shoots Valpo up to 85th... and drops CSU down to 68... OK, it's been a few years... and I know we have a ways to go... but for your consideration...
Rose Garden, Portland, Oregon (Host: University of Oregon)
The Pit, Albuquerque, New Mexico (Host: University of New Mexico)
Consol Energy Center, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania (Host: Duquesne University)
KFC Yum! Center, Louisville, Kentucky (Host: University of Louisville)
Nationwide Arena, Columbus, Ohio (Host: Ohio State University)
CenturyLink Center Omaha, Omaha, Nebraska (Host: Creighton University)
Bridgestone Arena, Nashville, Tennessee (Host: Ohio Valley Conference)
Greensboro Coliseum, Greensboro, North Carolina (Host: Atlantic Coast Conference)
Valpo-Baylor in the 14-3 game at the Pit in Albuquerque.
Quote from: historyman on February 09, 2012, 08:03:45 PM
Chef just said Kevin's knee injury did not seem too serious. Really hope Kevin can play against Youngstown. We have to play just as seriously against the Penguins as we did against Cleveland State. Can't take YSU lightly at all. Or UIC. Or Loyola.
early tweets are that it was in fact just a knee sprain. i would hope that he not play at ysu if at all possible, to get him some extra recovery time going into the home stretch. the less he plays saturday, the quicker it'll hopefully heal.
Quote from: talksalot on February 09, 2012, 08:10:40 PM
First place with all the tie breakers...RPI Predictor was a 13-point CSU win...rare to see that off by 31 points on the spread...CSU was at 58 and Valpo at 103 for today's rankings...WarrenNolan's Realtime RPI shoots Valpo up to 85th... and drops CSU down to 68... OK, it's been a few years... and I know we have a ways to go... but for your consideration...
Rose Garden, Portland, Oregon (Host: University of Oregon)
The Pit, Albuquerque, New Mexico (Host: University of New Mexico)
Consol Energy Center, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania (Host: Duquesne University)
KFC Yum! Center, Louisville, Kentucky (Host: University of Louisville)
Nationwide Arena, Columbus, Ohio (Host: Ohio State University)
CenturyLink Center Omaha, Omaha, Nebraska (Host: Creighton University)
Bridgestone Arena, Nashville, Tennessee (Host: Ohio Valley Conference)
Greensboro Coliseum, Greensboro, North Carolina (Host: Atlantic Coast Conference)
Valpo-Baylor in the 14-3 game at the Pit in Albuquerque.
Nashville, Louisville or Columbus but if it is Baylor than you're probably correct it would be in Albuquerque. Although as valpotx said El Paso is 10 hours from DFW so Waco is probably 12 hours from Albuqwirkque. Maybe Nashville is best for both Baylor and Valpo.
EDIT: 12 hours to both Nashville & Albuqwirkque from Waco. 7 hours from Valpo to Nashville.
Quote from: bbtds on February 09, 2012, 08:19:20 PM
Quote from: talksalot on February 09, 2012, 08:10:40 PM
First place with all the tie breakers...RPI Predictor was a 13-point CSU win...rare to see that off by 31 points on the spread...CSU was at 58 and Valpo at 103 for today's rankings...WarrenNolan's Realtime RPI shoots Valpo up to 85th... and drops CSU down to 68... OK, it's been a few years... and I know we have a ways to go... but for your consideration...
Rose Garden, Portland, Oregon (Host: University of Oregon)
The Pit, Albuquerque, New Mexico (Host: University of New Mexico)
Consol Energy Center, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania (Host: Duquesne University)
KFC Yum! Center, Louisville, Kentucky (Host: University of Louisville)
Nationwide Arena, Columbus, Ohio (Host: Ohio State University)
CenturyLink Center Omaha, Omaha, Nebraska (Host: Creighton University)
Bridgestone Arena, Nashville, Tennessee (Host: Ohio Valley Conference)
Greensboro Coliseum, Greensboro, North Carolina (Host: Atlantic Coast Conference)
Valpo-Baylor in the 14-3 game at the Pit in Albuquerque.
Nashville, Louisville or Columbus but if it is Baylor than you're probably correct it would be in Albuquerque. Although as valpotx said El Paso is 10 hours from DFW so Waco is probably 13 to 14 hours from Albuqwirkque. Maybe Nashville is best for both Baylor and Valpo.
Lets not start this now. Such a long way to go.
Please, more game impressions and recap. Heard Rowdy's stats, sounded like a MONSTER game, any details?
Rowdy and Richie were unbelievable in the first half--not sure they missed any 3's, for a combined 25 ? A bunch. In the second half we controlled the clock, working it down and continued to hit shots. Great defense (obviously) as CSU never got ANYTHING going. Less TOs and better execution. Got a few good minutes from Vuc in Kevin's absences. Our depth really payed off.
Quote from: vu72 on February 09, 2012, 08:35:45 PM
Rowdy and Richie were unbelievable in the first half--not sure they missed any 3's, for a combined 25 ? A bunch. In the second half we controlled the clock, working it down and continued to hit shots. Great defense (obviously) as CSU never got ANYTHING going. Less TOs and better execution. Got a few good minutes from Vuc in Kevin's absences. Our depth really payed off.
Thanks VU72. Found this error in the ESPN game recap.
QuoteCleveland State's Aaron Pogue made a free throw 32 seconds in for the Vikings' only lead. The Crusaders then scored 17 straight, on five 3-pointers and two free throws. Broekhoff accounted for eight of those points.
Cleveland State, which took a 29-17 advantage into halftime, led by double figures the rest of the night.
I guess the outcome was a little bit of a surprise for whomever wrote the recap. 8)
What a wonderful surprise: Valpo plays exceptional basketball and Cleveland State has its worst game of the year! Although CSU missed some easy shots and layups, the Valpo defense has definitely solidified as the season progressed.
Ryan set the tone with his great shooting, and he gets 24 points, 10 rebounds in the biggest game of the season. He must be considered a lock for Player of the Year now. Edwards comes up big when needed with Kevin out.
Other than Kevin's injury, which we all hope is merely a strain, the only other negative was that there were a few more turnovers than we would like, but that would be nitpicking after such a powerful performance.
Also, how important are the conference road games this year at Butler, Detroit, Milwaukee, and now Cleveland State! Imagine if the team had won the Summit games they should have: the record would be 21-5.
I don't want to get ahead of ourselves and jinx the team by talking about a conference championship and home court tournament. However, if the Crusaders can win the conference, no matter what happens in the tournament, they should at least have a sure NIT invitation. In fact, the win tonight might have made the NIT a more likely possibility if Valpo doesn't make the NCAA tournament.
I hope the team doesn't dwell too long on tonight's game, and they focus on a victory at Youngstown State this Saturday.
If Valpo wins the regular season title they are guaranteed an NIT bid.
And, as a final thought tonight, (I need to calm down!! ;) We got a total of 7 points tonight from Jay, Matt, Ben and Will. Obviously, we have other weapons when needed. GO VALPO!! ;D
how many layups did they miss in the first half? ;)
Never saw a win like this coming... Cleveland State played poorly, but Valpo played smart and great. Great outside shooting always helps.
Key thoughts:
-Broekhoff's overall game was great - loved the coast-to-coast dunk when it looked like momentum might be swinging a little.
-Edwards obviously came up big with KVW out. Besides his three-point shooting (heck he looks good shooting it), I thought his interior defense was solid. Better positioning and use of his strength.
-Given than Valpo went into a more deliberate offense, I thought Buggs' play was very good. With a few exceptions, he got them into the offense late in the shot clock and Valpo still got a lot of good looks (though there were a few stretches where Valpo was heaving up prayers).
-Valpo's overall defense took away the three from Cleveland State. The zone was agressive and extended (I am sure Scott is wishing his zone was as effective last night - that got slaughtered with their zone)
Lastly...great coaching job by Bryce. He loses KVW in the middle of the first half and spreads the minutes out efficiently (even a few serviceable minutes from Vucic). No on played more than 33 minutes. His strategy to extend the possessions was a little scary at first, but they got enough good shots in the last 10-15 seconds of the shot clock.
Ya wanna know what impresses me the most?
Winning 5-on-8 on the road.
:thumbsup: :clap: :dance:
I can't believe I missed this game. Can someone fill me in how Kevin got hurt? I also understand that one of our players received a Flagrant? Can someone explain what happened? Did any of the Cleveland state players lose their heads when getting whooped at home and losing 1st place?
I hope butler beats them Saturday and gives us a little more breathing room. I'm glad Richie Edwards wasn't kicked off the team, he's come up big as of late.
I turned on the game 10 minutes late and saw the 14-1 score. Thought they had switched the team names or scores. Why? we have always been destroyed on that court and almost always started out horribly. I can't remember a good start there.
It actually goes back to the NCAA 1st round game at the Wolstein when we played vs. Mateen Cleaves and the Spartans. They just crushed us in the first 4-5 minutes and just ruined the night. It was the very earliest game in the evening and it was lost before they even were scheduled to go to the next game.
What a break through and heal quick, Kevin!!
One thing that continues to scare me is how many turnovers we commit. We are very poor at handling the ball.
Cleveland State played crappy D to start the game. All of those shots were wide open and we made them pay. I've never seen our players left so wide open. A little worried that no one else really contributed at all except for Ryan and Edwards however they were wide open. Nice to hear CSU head coach in the post game say Ryan is the best in the league.
Bryce did a great job shortening the game and extending possessions with a big lead on the road. Interesting that he put in the walkons and Vucic at the end but no Kurth.....
Didn't know the walk-ons got some PT. Bryce trying to save the legs on the road trip.
Well...9 seconds of PT for Stegelman and Shelton. They walked on the court, turned around, and walked off. And yes, no Kurth definitely indicates something...
I know that Kurth recently made a trip to Indy to have some tests done, I believe he is still struggling to get 100% healthy. I don't believe its something to read into too much.
Quote from: vu84v2 on February 09, 2012, 09:50:40 PMWell...9 seconds of PT for Stegelman and Shelton. They walked on the court, turned around, and walked off. And yes, no Kurth definitely indicates something...
With 9 seconds to go? Was that after the shot clock violation? I guess CSU did in-bounds, but I think the last dribble of the game was forty seconds before they came in.
11-22 from beyond the arc, 7-21 from inside. That doesn't happen very often!
Posted by: oklahomamick
« on: Today at 09:21:20 PM » Insert Quote
I can't believe I missed this game. Can someone fill me in how Kevin got hurt? I also understand that one of our players received a Flagrant? Can someone explain what happened? Did any of the Cleveland state players lose their heads when getting whooped at home and losing 1st place?
I hope butler beats them Saturday and gives us a little more breathing room. I'm glad Richie Edwards wasn't kicked off the team, he's come up big as of late.
Kevin and a CSU got tangled up and Kevin was in excruciating pain for a good 5 min. Bryce and Rod came over to the non-moving Kevin to check him out. We thought it was an ankle but turns out it was a knee. He seemed to be able to move better after the game so I hope he is ready for the Butler game. The flagrant was BS in my opinion. The Cleveland State guy jumped out of the gym and got bumped by Kenney (I think it was him) and he fell hard. Great game to be at surrounded by Cleveland State fans. Don't buy tickets through VU because they stick you in the corner. Buy them through CSU and sit among the enemy, that's what I have done 3 out of the last 4 years.
A great line from Bill Potter with the Horizon League, "with the Tasman Tandem accounting for 75 percent of the Crusaders' points."
I was at the game and feel like I saw a different game then the majority of people on this board. Neither team played well. CSU played like absolute crap, pushing the ball and missing layups left and right. Ryan and Richie played well knocking down 3's throughout the game. I felt like Valpo's offense was mediocre at best. They set the occasional screen on their half court sets but overall were very stagnant. I am not trying to be pessimistic but just calling it like I saw it. We won the game and are in first place! I hope Kevin can play again this year. He did not move for a good 5 min after the tie up with the CSU player. We need him to win the regular season, conference tourney, and to knock off some big brother of the poor in the NCAA tourney.
I tend to agree that Valpo could have played much better than they did (3pt shooting aside), to still come away with such an impressive victory shows just how high of a ceiling they may have if all cylinders fire on the same night!
Hmm...11-3...first place...where have I heard that before? Oh wait! Last year when Valpo went 1-3 down the stretch. Granted, the space between 1st and 4th place is much greater than last year, but it is certainly not time to celebrate yet. A lot can happen in four games.
valpocleveland wrote: "I felt like Valpo's offense was mediocre at best. They set the occasional screen on their half court sets but overall were very stagnant."
Valpo shot 42%, with 50% (11-22) from the 3-point line, despite the fact that our leader in field goal percent (Kevin) was out of the game. Kevin's absence also accounted for a lack of the usual inside passes and offensive flow to the basket. Still, the team had 13 assists, only 1 below their average, which is understandable when so many shots are 3-point attempts. All of this happened against the best defense in the league by a wide margin.
In addition, after getting such a big lead, much of the second half consisted of a "stagnant" slow down offense to eat up the clock. Furthermore, the team had 7 offensive rebounds, only 1 below average, again without Kevin in the game and because more shots went in the basket instead of creating rebounds. As mentioned previously, there were a few more turnovers than anyone would want, but overall not much about which to complain.
Quote from: valpocleveland on February 09, 2012, 11:11:56 PM
I was at the game and feel like I saw a different game then the majority of people on this board. Neither team played well. CSU played like absolute crap, pushing the ball and missing layups left and right. Ryan and Richie played well knocking down 3's throughout the game. I felt like Valpo's offense was mediocre at best. They set the occasional screen on their half court sets but overall were very stagnant. I am not trying to be pessimistic but just calling it like I saw it. We won the game and are in first place! I hope Kevin can play again this year. He did not move for a good 5 min after the tie up with the CSU player. We need him to win the regular season, conference tourney, and to knock off some big brother of the poor in the NCAA tourney.
I think when good defense meets average offense it makes the offense look really bad and causes many turnovers. Both teams played very good defense and therefore you get what looks like a very ugly game. It can't be all about offense but when the game is mostly about defense the game seems rotten. The lopsided score was because Ryan and Richie shot so well from behind the arc. Also Valpo played a well controlled milk the clock game in the 2nd half and was still able to get some good shots off at some critical moments.
The deal with Kevin going down was unintentional/intentional at best. Kevin got in a knock down scrum with 2 CSU players over a loose ball and one of the CSU players "accidently" rolled over on Kevin's leg. He didn't move for about 5 minutes before they dragged him off the floor. Later Rod Moore told the Valpo Sports Radio Network (Chef) that Kevin's injury was not that severe and that he was questionable for Saturday against Youngstown.
Quote from: valpocleveland on February 09, 2012, 11:11:56 PM
I was at the game and feel like I saw a different game then the majority of people on this board. Neither team played well. CSU played like absolute crap, pushing the ball and missing layups left and right. Ryan and Richie played well knocking down 3's throughout the game. I felt like Valpo's offense was mediocre at best. They set the occasional screen on their half court sets but overall were very stagnant. I am not trying to be pessimistic but just calling it like I saw it. We won the game and are in first place! I hope Kevin can play again this year. He did not move for a good 5 min after the tie up with the CSU player. We need him to win the regular season, conference tourney, and to knock off some big brother of the poor in the NCAA tourney.
I dunno, shooting 50% from beyond the arc hardly seems mediocre. It certainly could have been mediocre at times, say, when we were committing 17 turnovers, but you have to balance that with incredible shooting. Overall, I thought Valpo played a good game. Certainly there is room for improvement.
That was quick
http://www.hoopville.com/2012/02/10/march-to-madness/ (http://www.hoopville.com/2012/02/10/march-to-madness/)
Has us as a 13 seed playing San Diego State out in Portland. :cheers:
Good game to watch in regards to the great cushion in points. It has been awhile since we beat a good team this badly, going back to the Mid-Con days where it was fairly routine for us to win by 10-20 against everyone but the 2nd and 3rd place teams. Nice to not have to shout at the computer when we make mistakes in a close game :)
Also, in looking at that bracket, that would be an ideal situation for us. Way too early to put any stock in these, but a first round match-up with a San Diego State, and possible second round against Florida State or Washington, is wayyyyyyy better than some of the games we have played in the tournaments of past: Michigan State, Kentucky, Gonzaga with Turiaf, Boston College, Maryland.
Don't want to offend anyone and I'm very positive about our dominate performance last night BUT I think all the ncaa tourney talk should be put away for now. I understand it's fun but there is a very long and difficult road ahead of us. I'm sure Bryce and the boys agree and are taking it one game at a time. How many teams sweep the Ohio road trip? Youngstown is a must win or we are back in second.... Granted if playing the conf. Tourney at the arc. will help us, the tourney is still very difficult with so many teams capable of going off and winning it, Detroit, Milwaukee, Cleveland state.
Good win, celebrate, now onto Saturdays game.
Bryce coach of the year, Ryan player of the year.
Good win guys. Broekhoff is hands down the best HL player I've seen this year, and I thought he was the POY before last night.
I'm so disappointed that my Vikings didn't come to play last night, but the credit has to go to Bryce Drew and your team. They had the better game plan and they outplayed CSU from the opening tip.
D'Aundray Brown's injury set us back (he should have never played, he was clearly limping from the beginning), but we just don't have an answer for your big men stepping out and shooting like they do. I have no idea how our game-plan allowed for so many wide open shots, but again, credit to Drew for out-coaching Waters.
My opinion on the two questionable plays: The play with Van Wijk happened right in front of me. VW was bending down for a lose ball when one of our guys went to the ground to try to tie him up, then a second CSU player (Brown) dove in to try to grab the lose ball and rolled right up on his leg. VW fell awkawrdly to the side and then to the ground. I saw it right away and thought it was a knee. Knowing the way that Brown plays (all-out hustle, but clean), I don't think for a second that it was an intentional play, but I do think it looked worse than they're reporting. I hope the big guy is back soon.
And I agree that the flagrant was a bad call. Our guy (Mason) is a high flyer. I just think he was up so high and moving so quickly that he lost his balance. The contact was hard but he mostly hit him with the body as he went for the block. If he didn't fall as hard, I don't think they call it a flagrant.
As for the rest of the season, I don't see us winning out, in fact I wouldn't be surprised to see us lose 2 more conference games with our remaining schedule. I think you guys should feel pretty safe with the top seed.
Hopefully I get another chance to come over here come Tourney time.
http://www.cleveland.com/sports/csu/index.ssf/2012/02/cleveland_state_loses_to_valpa.html (http://www.cleveland.com/sports/csu/index.ssf/2012/02/cleveland_state_loses_to_valpa.html)
CSU received a couple of votes in the last AP and ESPN/USA polls. Maybe we sneak in there? When was the last time we received votes? Seems long overdue, but maybe I'm failing to remember something recent.
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 10, 2012, 06:59:45 AM
Don't want to offend anyone and I'm very positive about our dominate performance last night BUT I think all the ncaa tourney talk should be put away for now. I understand it's fun but there is a very long and difficult road ahead of us. I'm sure Bryce and the boys agree and are taking it one game at a time. How many teams sweep the Ohio road trip? Youngstown is a must win or we are back in second.... Granted if playing the conf. Tourney at the arch will help us, the tourney is still very difficult with so many teams capable of going off and winning it, Detroit, Milwaukee, Cleveland state.
Good win, celebrate, now onto Saturdays game.
Bryce coach of the year, Ryan player of the year.
1. It wasn't a serious reference, just for fun.
2. How we as fans view the rest of the season has zero impact on how the team does the rest of the season. They don't take their cue from us (If they do, they are in serious trouble).
I do agree that brackets are silly until the field is set. In fact, I don't fill one out ahead of time. I fill mine out "As-They-Go" (tm MidMajority). Half the time, the bracket projections you see are slapped together in 5 minutes with one-bid leagues being represented by whoever is in first place at the time (don't even get me started on Lunardi). There's little serious work being done on some of them. I was just kind of giddy about seeing Valpo's name in one so soon after the win.
Quote from: StlVUFan on February 10, 2012, 09:21:17 AM
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 10, 2012, 06:59:45 AM
Don't want to offend anyone and I'm very positive about our dominate performance last night BUT I think all the ncaa tourney talk should be put away for now. I understand it's fun but there is a very long and difficult road ahead of us. I'm sure Bryce and the boys agree and are taking it one game at a time. How many teams sweep the Ohio road trip? Youngstown is a must win or we are back in second.... Granted if playing the conf. Tourney at the arch will help us, the tourney is still very difficult with so many teams capable of going off and winning it, Detroit, Milwaukee, Cleveland state.
Good win, celebrate, now onto Saturdays game.
Bryce coach of the year, Ryan player of the year.
1. It wasn't a serious reference, just for fun.
2. How we as fans view the rest of the season has zero impact on how the team does the rest of the season. They don't take their cue from us (If they do, they are in serious trouble).
You sure? :crazy: ;)
[/quote]
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 10, 2012, 06:59:45 AM
Don't want to offend anyone and I'm very positive about our dominate performance last night BUT I think all the ncaa tourney talk should be put away for now. I understand it's fun but there is a very long and difficult road ahead of us. I'm sure Bryce and the boys agree and are taking it one game at a time. How many teams sweep the Ohio road trip? Youngstown is a must win or we are back in second.... Granted if playing the conf. Tourney at the arch will help us, the tourney is still very difficult with so many teams capable of going off and winning it, Detroit, Milwaukee, Cleveland state.
Good win, celebrate, now onto Saturdays game.
Bryce coach of the year, Ryan player of the year.
Quote from: CSURyan on February 10, 2012, 08:49:40 AM
VW was bending down for a lose ball when one of our guys went to the ground to try to tie him up, then a second CSU player (Brown) dove in to try to grab the lose ball and rolled right up on his leg. VW fell awkawrdly to the side and then to the ground. I saw it right away and thought it was a knee. Knowing the way that Brown plays (all-out hustle, but clean), I don't think for a second that it was an intentional play, but I do think it looked worse than they're reporting.
Super win last night. This team has really shown me growth and tenacity as the season has progressed. I had my doubts after watching us bumble and stumble against IPFW and the other Summit teams.
Broekhoff, what more can be said, he is a complete player, has all the skills and the intangibles that really make him special.
That being said, I find that I couldn't agree more with oklahomamick. How quickly everyone has forgotten where we were this time last year and where we ended up in the standings. Not to mention that now we are facing the possible season ending injury to one of our most important players... and posters are talking about our seeding in the big dance???? I know that Edwards has been playing very well of late but let's see what happens when a team doesn't have to game plan to stop Van Wijk and can just concentrate on Edwards. Van Wijk has been a terror for most teams in the league, our team is drastically different and much easier to defend if he is not able to play at a high level. Kevin has endured much during his basketball career, I hope and pray that this is only a minor injury as some have seemed to indicate.
Clearly Kevin will be missed but, Edwards adds a dimension Kevin will never have--the 3 point shot. When you have a 6'8" guy who can move as well as Richie AND hit the 3, it makes their bigs try to defend on the perimeter which in many cases just doesn't work.
I'm not suggesting for a moment that he wouldn't be missed, but would the loss be fatal? I don't think so. We would need more minutes from Ben and Matt which makes us smaller, but quicker with another 3 point shooter on the floor. Imagine what next year will bring when we add to more skilled bigs to the equation--but, that is next year not this year. Let's all pray for a quick and full recovery!
No one is saying we are expecting to go to the tourney at this time lol. Just like Stl said, it is just fun to see our name on the bracket for the first time in 8 years. Everyone knows it is way too early to consider this, it is just a bit of levity considering we haven't been in so long. It used to be the expectation in the Mid-Con that we would be going to the tourney. We know it is a much harder road in the Horizon.
http://sectionee.blogspot.com/2012/02/valpo-vs-cleveland-state-pps-results.html (http://sectionee.blogspot.com/2012/02/valpo-vs-cleveland-state-pps-results.html)
Here are my productivity scores from last night's game.
Any report yet on Kevin's injury? My gut tells me he will be unavailable for YSU the way he was limping around. Also, I read Boggs suffered a concussion--anyone know his status as well?
This story about Richie kind of reaffirms my point about Richie being a different type of big versus Kevin. Water's say as much in describing Pogue's problems:
Edwards steps up for Valparaiso
By Mark Lazerus 648-3140 or mlazerus@post-trib.com February 9, 2012 11:28PM
ReprintsTweetUpdated: February 10, 2012 2:08AM
CLEVELAND — Cleveland State coach Gary Waters didn't even seem to know Richie Edwards' name.
But he won't soon forget this performance.
With Kevin Van Wijk sidelined by a knee injury, Richie Edwards stepped in and had his third straight monster game, scoring 20 points and hauling in six rebounds in Valparaiso's crucial 59-41 road victory at Cleveland State.
After Ryan Broekhoff opened the game with three 3-pointers, Edwards hit three straight treys of his own as the Crusaders jumped out to a 20-4 lead and never looked back.
Edwards finished 4-of-7 from long range.
"That one kid had 20," Waters said. "He probably only averaged six or eight points a game."
Edwards' early treys took Cleveland State big man Aaron Pogue — who was abused inside for 23 points by Van Wijk in the teams' earlier meeting at the ARC — out of his game, as he was forced to step out and defend along the perimeter."Broekhoff's going to hit some shots — in my estimation, he's the best player in the league," Waters said. "(Number) zero stepping out and hitting shots, now Aaron, who normally would be inside, now this guy's outside shooting the 3. That was deflating. That really was deflating."Less than two weeks ago, Edwards was drawing heavy criticism for getting himself ejected from a big game at Milwaukee with two quick technical fouls. Since then, he's more than atoned, with 16 points against Detroit, 16 against Wright State and 20 against CSU.
He had 18 in his previous five games combined.
"I just feel like my after-practice work is what's really been helping me play better," Edwards said.
With Van Wijk's status uncertain, Edwards could play a key role down the stretch as VU tries to stay in first place.If the last three games are any indication, he might be ready to do that.
"He was a junior-college All-American, but when he came in, it usually takes a little time to get used to the system and the offense and where his spots are to score," VU coach Bryce Drew said. "I think he's done a tremendous job. Even early in the year, he did a really good job, it's just that Kevin's been playing so well."
Quote from: rink on February 10, 2012, 09:06:41 AM
CSU received a couple of votes in the last AP and ESPN/USA polls. Maybe we sneak in there? When was the last time we received votes? Seems long overdue, but maybe I'm failing to remember something recent.
Not that overdue--we received votes in the ESPN/USA Today poll last year, actually right around this time of the season. I don't think we ever received a vote in the AP.
On the bracketology noise, I think someone has a sense of humor in placing us today:
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology)
Quote from: valpotx on February 10, 2012, 01:11:58 PM
On the bracketology noise, I think someone has a sense of humor in placing us today:
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology)
Yes, I wondered what it would be like if Valpo were in the same bracket with Michigan State just as much as I wondered about Baylor.
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 10, 2012, 06:59:45 AMGranted if playing the conf. Tourney at the arch will help us, the tourney is still very difficult with so many teams capable of going off and winning it, Detroit, Milwaukee, Cleveland state.
When was SLU admitted to the HL? Won't both Scottrade and Chaifitz be busy during tournament week? ;) StLVUFan? vuweathernerd?
The win last night really means that we and CSU are tied in losses three each (they have a game in hand). If we win out and CSU win out record wise we will be tied record wise, we win on tie breakers. We lose one game and CSU wins out we end up 2ed. A YSU game win and a Butler win over CSU gives VU a one game advantage. A big advantage for the rest of the season. There is a lot to be done before the season is over. Let's focus on YSU the next game!!
Quote from: CSURyan on February 10, 2012, 08:49:40 AMthen a second CSU player (Brown) dove in to try to grab the lose ball and rolled right up on his leg. VW fell awkawrdly to the side and then to the ground. I saw it right away and thought it was a knee. Knowing the way that Brown plays (all-out hustle, but clean), I don't think for a second that it was an intentional play,
I call it unintentional/intentional. It's like when your mother used to tell you not to play and "rough-house" so much. Before you know it you banged yourself into your brother's knee and he's crying and yelling "Mom,
YOUR NAME hurt me." You didn't mean to hurt your brother but you knew the physical play could lead to dangerous circumstances and you are just lucky that it was just your brother and not both of you that got hurt.
Quote from: valpotx on February 10, 2012, 10:32:48 AM
No one is saying we are expecting to go to the tourney at this time lol. Just like Stl said, it is just fun to see our name on the bracket for the first time in 8 years.
As with the national polling, our name was on _this_ kind of bracket a year ago. It's the next four games, and the HL tournament, that will really test how far we've come.
(Hmmm.. March 15, 16, 17, 18. Still Spring Break. Road trip to... Columbus? Louisville? Nashville? Omaha? I suppose I'd stay home with the family.)
Lost in all the discussion of last night's win was Ryan's monster dunk in the second half. The Cleveland Plain Dealer wrote about the coast-to-coast play, and of course Ryan remembered everything and broke it down like a coach:
Valpo's Ryan Broekhoff, working on a 24-point night, snatched the rebound under the basket, then drove coast-to-coast for a dunk and a 49-34 lead that all but took first place, and perhaps a chance at hosting the Horizon League Tournament, out of the hands of the Vikings (20-5, 10-3), and placed it firmly in the grasp of the Crusaders (18-8, 11-3). Valparaiso swept CSU this season.
"I was trying to track the ball, because I'm not a physical guy that can bang around and get [a rebound]," Broekhoff said. "I noticed it was short so I ran under the ring, pushed through. Kind of an instinct. I grabbed the ball, pushed it out and kind of caught everyone else by surprise, flat-footed and straight-legged. I was either going to take a layup or go for a 3. I was able to force it [to the rim] and finish the play."
Quote from: bbtds on February 10, 2012, 02:01:04 PM
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 10, 2012, 06:59:45 AMGranted if playing the conf. Tourney at the arch will help us, the tourney is still very difficult with so many teams capable of going off and winning it, Detroit, Milwaukee, Cleveland state.
When was SLU admitted to the HL? Won't both Scottrade and Chaifitz be busy during tournament week? ;) StLVUFan? vuweathernerd?
Probably a slip of the finger. Probably meant ARC ;)
Quote from: vu72 on February 10, 2012, 10:04:41 AM
Clearly Kevin will be missed but, Edwards adds a dimension Kevin will never have--the 3 point shot. When you have a 6'8" guy who can move as well as Richie AND hit the 3, it makes their bigs try to defend on the perimeter which in many cases just doesn't work.
I'm not suggesting for a moment that he wouldn't be missed, but would the loss be fatal? I don't think so. We would need more minutes from Ben and Matt which makes us smaller, but quicker with another 3 point shooter on the floor. Imagine what next year will bring when we add to more skilled bigs to the equation--but, that is next year not this year. Let's all pray for a quick and full recovery!
I respect your view on this VU72 but have to really disagree. Kevin is a true "back to the basket" player "the best true post in the HL" as the pregame analyst said before last nights game, something we have not had in a long time and something that has really changed the way teams have had to defend us this year. Richie has added a different dimension to the team on the floor when he comes in, but this is really set up by Kevin's physical play. Teams have to game plan for Kevin's majority of minutes letting Richie come in and give us a different look. If Kevin is out for a period of time it allows teams to game plan specifically for Richie and a less physical style of play. Kevin also gets more than twice the free throw attempts per minute played and consequently can rack up the fouls on the opposition. Without Kevin this team becomes the Cory Johnson style team of 2009-2010 when Cory shot 50% from 3. While the blow may not be fatal I think it make things much harder strategically.
Quote from: StlVUFan on February 10, 2012, 02:32:44 PM
Quote from: bbtds on February 10, 2012, 02:01:04 PM
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 10, 2012, 06:59:45 AMGranted if playing the conf. Tourney at the arch will help us, the tourney is still very difficult with so many teams capable of going off and winning it, Detroit, Milwaukee, Cleveland state.
When was SLU admitted to the HL? Won't both Scottrade and Chaifitz be busy during tournament week? ;) StLVUFan? vuweathernerd?
Probably a slip of the finger. Probably meant ARC ;)
probably. but chaiffetz will be quiet by then b/c stl doesn't host the a10 tourney. and the mo valley tourney is played out at scottrade center.
Just an update: word is that Kevin's knee is feeling better today, but it is uncertain whether he will be able to play against YSU. Certainly good news after the initial impression when he went down in the Cleveland game.
Quote from: FWalum on February 10, 2012, 05:29:18 PM
Quote from: vu72 on February 10, 2012, 10:04:41 AM
Clearly Kevin will be missed but, Edwards adds a dimension Kevin will never have--the 3 point shot. When you have a 6'8" guy who can move as well as Richie AND hit the 3, it makes their bigs try to defend on the perimeter which in many cases just doesn't work.
I'm not suggesting for a moment that he wouldn't be missed, but would the loss be fatal? I don't think so. We would need more minutes from Ben and Matt which makes us smaller, but quicker with another 3 point shooter on the floor. Imagine what next year will bring when we add to more skilled bigs to the equation--but, that is next year not this year. Let's all pray for a quick and full recovery!
I respect your view on this VU72 but have to really disagree. Kevin is a true "back to the basket" player "the best true post in the HL" as the pregame analyst said before last nights game, something we have not had in a long time and something that has really changed the way teams have had to defend us this year. Richie has added a different dimension to the team on the floor when he comes in, but this is really set up by Kevin's physical play. Teams have to game plan for Kevin's majority of minutes letting Richie come in and give us a different look. If Kevin is out for a period of time it allows teams to game plan specifically for Richie and a less physical style of play. Kevin also gets more than twice the free throw attempts per minute played and consequently can rack up the fouls on the opposition. Without Kevin this team becomes the Cory Johnson style team of 2009-2010 when Cory shot 50% from 3. While the blow may not be fatal I think it make things much harder strategically.
Well said. I defer to your judgement and experience Coach!
Quote from: StlVUFan on February 10, 2012, 02:32:44 PM
Quote from: bbtds on February 10, 2012, 02:01:04 PM
Quote from: oklahomamick on February 10, 2012, 06:59:45 AMGranted if playing the conf. Tourney at the arch will help us, the tourney is still very difficult with so many teams capable of going off and winning it, Detroit, Milwaukee, Cleveland state.
When was SLU admitted to the HL? Won't both Scottrade and Chaifitz be busy during tournament week? ;) StLVUFan? vuweathernerd?
Probably a slip of the finger. Probably meant ARC ;)
Yes, should have arched over and fixed it. [preview button works great] :P
There is also a way to "modify" a post, if you catch a mistake/typo after you've posted it.
Quote from: vuweathernerd on February 10, 2012, 05:53:52 PMprobably. but chaiffetz will be quiet by then b/c stl doesn't host the a10 tourney. and the mo valley tourney is played out at scottrade center.
it wasn't really about whether Chaifetz was empty or not. I'm just a stickler for correcting spelling errors that are oblivious ;D ;D
Very small small spelling errors can make a huge huge dilifference.
Right, Crudsader 03?
Quote from: valporun on February 10, 2012, 07:58:55 PM
There is also a way to "modify" a post, if you catch a mistake/typo after you've posted it.
I love "modify." I must modify about every post.
Fixed.
Quote from: vu72 on February 10, 2012, 07:18:00 PM
Quote from: FWalum on February 10, 2012, 05:29:18 PM
Quote from: vu72 on February 10, 2012, 10:04:41 AM
Clearly Kevin will be missed but, Edwards adds a dimension Kevin will never have--the 3 point shot. When you have a 6'8" guy who can move as well as Richie AND hit the 3, it makes their bigs try to defend on the perimeter which in many cases just doesn't work.
I'm not suggesting for a moment that he wouldn't be missed, but would the loss be fatal? I don't think so. We would need more minutes from Ben and Matt which makes us smaller, but quicker with another 3 point shooter on the floor. Imagine what next year will bring when we add to more skilled bigs to the equation--but, that is next year not this year. Let's all pray for a quick and full recovery!
I respect your view on this VU72 but have to really disagree. Kevin is a true "back to the basket" player "the best true post in the HL" as the pregame analyst said before last nights game, something we have not had in a long time and something that has really changed the way teams have had to defend us this year. Richie has added a different dimension to the team on the floor when he comes in, but this is really set up by Kevin's physical play. Teams have to game plan for Kevin's majority of minutes letting Richie come in and give us a different look. If Kevin is out for a period of time it allows teams to game plan specifically for Richie and a less physical style of play. Kevin also gets more than twice the free throw attempts per minute played and consequently can rack up the fouls on the opposition. Without Kevin this team becomes the Cory Johnson style team of 2009-2010 when Cory shot 50% from 3. While the blow may not be fatal I think it make things much harder strategically.
Well said. I defer to your judgement and experience Coach!
Thanks for the ego boost VU72. Just my humble opinion and perhaps old school approach to coaching. Hopefully this will all be a moot point and Richie will continue to impress along with Kevin's knee appearing to be better than initial appearances and responding to treatment as has been intimated by others.
One of the big differences I see in this team is how Kevin has really gotten to the line this year. This ability really puts pressure on the other teams big men often creating foul trouble. In the past years many posters have complained that we did not take the ball to the basket and get free throw attempts. Compare Kevin to last years two top players in free throw attempts and makes.
FTM FTA GMS
Cory 97 137 35
Brandon 77 116 35
Kevin 114 174 26
Currently as a team we are getting 22 FTA a game this year vs 19.8 last year and making 15.58 per game vs 12.8 makes from last years team. Perhaps a small thing but I think pretty significant.
From Butler board, quotes from Butler player,
"I mean, Cleveland State is a really dirty team," Marshall said. "They get away with a lot."
The Vikings long have been recognized in the Horizon League for physical, hard-nosed play. The same often has been said about Butler.
Marshall referred to an incident in last month's game in which a Cleveland State player inbounded a ball hard off Butler's Kameron Woods, who doubled over in pain.
"Cleveland State is definitely a dirty team, and it's just how we respond to it," Marshall said. "There were a lot of bumps, a lot of hand checks, pushing calls we wish we could have gotten."
I know this is nothing new but it still makes me think that the injury to Kevin was more intentional than unintentional. But as I said the payback must come in beating UIC and Loyola and not giving Cleveland State any chance at hosting the HL tourney where they will get away with more of their "dirty" play.
Quote from: historyman on February 13, 2012, 08:03:24 AMI know this is nothing new but it still makes me think that the injury to Kevin was more intentional than unintentional. But as I said the payback must come in beating UIC and Loyola and not giving Cleveland State any chance at hosting the HL tourney where they will get away with more of their "dirty" play.
I did not get to watch the first CSU VU game so after the win at CSU I watched the previous game and could not get over how many times Kevin got tangled up with someone and ended up on the floor. I can't say that any incident in particular was intentional it just seemed rather unusual.
Quote from: FWalum on February 13, 2012, 09:09:50 AM
Quote from: historyman on February 13, 2012, 08:03:24 AMI know this is nothing new but it still makes me think that the injury to Kevin was more intentional than unintentional. But as I said the payback must come in beating UIC and Loyola and not giving Cleveland State any chance at hosting the HL tourney where they will get away with more of their "dirty" play.
I did not get to watch the first CSU VU game so after the win at CSU I watched the previous game and could not get over how many times Kevin got tangled up with someone and ended up on the floor. I can't say that any incident in particular was intentional it just seemed rather unusual.
Butler is physical.
Green Bay is physical and very good at pushing the envelope right to the edge.
CSU likes to think they are Green Bay, except they push it past the edge, plus they whine like babies whenever they get caught.
And Gary Waters begins every postgame press conference (well, at least after crushing losses anyway) with "I always start by giving God all the glory."
Things that make you go hmmmmm.....
CSU likable fans........unlikable program
BU unlikable fans.....likable program
Milw likable fans........likable program
WSU likable fans........likable program
I definitely agree with your analysis on program vs. fans. As always, there are outliers to the fans portion, but a good amount of Butler fans are the only ones in league that I don't have the greatest respect for.
Quote from: wh on February 13, 2012, 12:30:08 PM
CSU likable fans........unlikable program
BU unlikable fans.....likable program
Milw likable fans........likable program
WSU likable fans........likable program
I'd take exception, but "unlikable" is much tamer than the "arrogant a-hole" blast from last week. At this rate, we may improve to "slightly annoying" by the end of the year. ;)
Quote from: zvillehaze on February 13, 2012, 04:13:53 PM
Quote from: wh on February 13, 2012, 12:30:08 PM
CSU likable fans........unlikable program
BU unlikable fans.....likable program
Milw likable fans........likable program
WSU likable fans........likable program
I'd take exception, but "unlikable" is much tamer than the "arrogant a-hole" blast from last week. At this rate, we may improve to "slightly annoying" by the end of the year. ;)
Butler: Likeable program, unlikeable fans. Except for zvillehaze. He's a jerk. Can't stand him. Wish I could bounce him off the Butler Bubble. Sheesh, what a moron... :rotfl:
Not sure why, but I just felt the need :) Your sarcasm detector might need new batteries after that though...I'm guessing it was howling away...
So were does Valpo stand in this analysis? unlikeable, Arrogant a-hole, slightly annoying or likeable or maybe we should not ask....and who do we ask?
Without a doubt, we'll be unlikeable to all those whom we call unlikeable. Butler has its share of loud mouths and so do we. We have some passionate, but thoughtful and nearly objective fans; so does Butler...and Milwaukee, et al.
Quote from: wh on February 13, 2012, 12:30:08 PM
CSU likable fans........unlikable program
BU unlikable fans.....likable program
Milw likable fans........likable program
WSU likable fans........likable program
My only argument is your qualification of UWM having likeable fans.
They're the most unlikeable fans in the HL, which makes them really, really good fans. I'd say UWM and Butler have the "best" fans in the HL in as much as they really know how to be fans. They know exactly what to say and when to say it to get under your skin. That's what good fans do. They're nasty and they make you hate them because they're offensive in just the right ways and right times.