.....wanted to get thoughts from the board on how this game will go. It means nothing as far as "need" for Valpo and everything for the Bulldogs, who could finish anywhere from 2nd to 6th. How will Bryce treat this game? You know you will get Butler's best shot and they are playing very well right now. Are there any players the Crusaders need to rest? Do they feel a need to sweep Butler and send a message? Or perhaps incentive to move Butler down in the standings?
After starting Shelton and Stegglesaurus for a minute Valpo will play this game to win it. If they don't play to win it Butler could come back and bite them in the a$$ ala what Green Bay did to the Bears a few years back.
Valpo has the best record in the league, but they need to have the longest winning streak in the league against Butler to be in Charge come the playoffs. We want to be the biggist dog on the block!!! :thumbsup:
so long as the game is close, i think we'll see the majority of the normal rotation. but if the score gets highly lopsided one way or the other, kevin will likely be the first to get pulled to rest his knee.
This is not the Green Bay Packers who blistered the rest of the NFL all season and then rested people in a meaningless final game. This is a team that quite honestly looked like crap for most of last night's game, at home no less, and against the team with the worst record in the league no less. We very easily could have, and probably should have, lost that game. We had better use Friday night's game to straighten some things out and get back in sinc, or our first tournament game may very well be our last. I could care less who the opponent is. This isn't about them - it's about us. As far as Kevin's knee - he's got a whole week to rest it before the tournament starts. What possible difference could it make whether he plays 19 minutes or 24? Let's get back to a normal rotation, show some intensity, win this game, and send a message that we're the 1st place team for a reason.
Quote from: staxawax on February 22, 2012, 09:44:32 PM
.....wanted to get thoughts from the board on how this game will go. It means nothing as far as "need" for Valpo and everything for the Bulldogs, who could finish anywhere from 2nd to 6th. How will Bryce treat this game? You know you will get Butler's best shot and they are playing very well right now. Are there any players the Crusaders need to rest? Do they feel a need to sweep Butler and send a message? Or perhaps incentive to move Butler down in the standings?
According to Luke Gore, they know they have lots to improve on. Valpo is not firing on all cylinders. The only difference between this year and last year is that this year's team found what they needed in crunch time to stave off defeat. Last year's team ran out of steam. This year's team hasn't yet, but they look like they are running on fumes at times. We aren't crashing and burning -- not even close -- but we are wobbling a bit.
Loyola ran some sort of textbook screen and roll and Valpo fell for it every damn time. That's one thing that concerns me big-time. That seems like a weak spot, though I'm not able to define it with any precision. Also their particular zone defense gave us fits (but maybe it gave you guys fits too, I don't know).
Sweeping Butler has nothing to do with sending a message as far as I'm concerned. I think we need to sweep you guys to keep you out of the 2 seed and make you play 2 extra games before reaching the semifinals. Outside of Detroit (and I'm with wh or whoever it was on their coach), Butler seems to be playing the best basketball right now.
Will you be coming up for the game, Stax?
I would imagine that we would play this game as normal. No coach wants to see Butler in the tournament, and if you do, you want them to have played a few games to possibly have tired legs. I just can't see Bryce using this as a rest game, unless one team pulls ahead quite a bit, as nerd mentioned. KVW needs to get back into his groove, as with his injury, he is not crashing the basket as much as we would like.
Quote from: wh on February 22, 2012, 11:45:05 PM
This is not the Green Bay Packers who blistered the rest of the NFL all season and then rested people in a meaningless final game. This is a team that quite honestly looked like crap for most of last night's game, at home no less, and against the team with the worst record in the league no less. We very easily could have, and probably should have, lost that game. We had better use Friday night's game to straighten some things out and get back in sinc, or our first tournament game may very well be our last. I could care less who the opponent is. This isn't about them - it's about us. As far as Kevin's knee - he's got a whole week to rest it before the tournament starts. What possible difference could it make whether he plays 19 minutes or 24? Let's get back to a normal rotation, show some intensity, win this game, and send a message that we're the 1st place team for a reason.
Exactly. +1. I would forget about resting up and exploring the "letting the chips fall where they may" mantra as to tournament seeding for everybody else simply because we've clinched the #1. For VU, the chips have already fallen as to seeding. That is no longer in doubt. What is in doubt however, is the strength of VU as a #1 seed. We need to show the league that we are less beatable than we are at present.
I say:
Valpo 67
Butler 63
(from another thread but I thought it fits better here)
The thing that no one has mentioned is that Butler won all of their games except 2 in their current winning streak at home in Hinkle. They still have not shot well from 3 range. The way they are winning is by gaining the momentum with physical play and athletic play down low from Kyle Marshall and Roosevelt Jones. Jones has not played this well all year. Marshall was hurt a good portion of the season.
The guard play of Nored, Stigall and others has been excellent in this winning streak but the Bulldogs are not shooting from 3 nearly as well as Broekhoff, Bogan, Edwards, Kenney and others. Butler was 2 for 11 from 3 against a weak UIC. I think the key will be how well the Valpo defense can stop Marshall and Jones under the basket and if they can challenge them physically and athletically under the basket for rebounds and putting on enough defensive pressure to make them miss under the basket. Our guard play and ball handling will have to be a lot better than the Crusaders have played lately. Butler has played excellent defense lately and if Valpo starts making mistakes like throwing bad passes or letting Buggs dribble into trouble or forcing things when caught in a move to the basket not knowing what they were going to do with the ball then Butler will get a big lead and not relinquish it.
On the other hand if Valpo can keep it close by playing some tough defense like Butler, play physically & athletically tough under the basket, make free throws, not make a lot of turnovers, hit those important 3 pointers near the end of the game to thwart Butler's momentum then Valpo can squeak out a win and send Butler to the #3 or #4 seed in the HL tourney which is also not at Hinkle this year except the first round game which they wouldn't lose at Valpo or Hinkle.
Quote from: historyman on February 23, 2012, 11:08:02 AM
(from another thread but I thought it fits better here)
The thing that no one has mentioned is that Butler won all of their games except 2 in their current winning streak at home in Hinkle. They still have not shot well from 3 range. The way they are winning is by gaining the momentum with physical play and athletic play down low from Kyle Marshall and Roosevelt Jones. Jones has not played this well all year. Marshall was hurt a good portion of the season.
The guard play of Nored, Stigall and others has been excellent in this winning streak but the Bulldogs are not shooting from 3 nearly as well as Broekhoff, Bogan, Edwards, Kenney and others. Butler was 2 for 11 from 3 against a weak UIC. I think the key will be how well the Valpo defense can stop Marshall and Jones under the basket and if they can challenge them physically and athletically under the basket for rebounds and putting on enough defensive pressure to make them miss under the basket. Our guard play and ball handling will have to be a lot better than the Crusaders have played lately. Butler has played excellent defense lately and if Valpo starts making mistakes like throwing bad passes or letting Buggs dribble into trouble or forcing things when caught in a move to the basket not knowing what they were going to do with the ball then Butler will get a big lead and not relinquish it.
On the other hand if Valpo can keep it close by playing some tough defense like Butler, play physically & athletically tough under the basket, make free throws, not make a lot of turnovers, hit those important 3 pointers near the end of the game to thwart Butler's momentum then Valpo can squeak out a win and send Butler to the #3 or #4 seed in the HL tourney which is also not at Hinkle this year except the first round game which they wouldn't lose at Valpo or Hinkle.
Wow, a headache trying to read this. Shorter sentences are your friend, historyman!
Offensively, Butler is finally playing an inside/out game. Pound it or drive it down low, then kick it out if need be. 3-point % hasn't really improved all that much, but Fromm and Hopkins are getting more consistent and Stigall is going to break out a good game someday. As far as defense goes, Butler has made the national finals two years in a row because of it's defense. They are playing that quality of defense now. So, the opponent or the sight makes little difference. A Butler win is like a shot across the bow of Valpo's boat. The real battle will be the league tourney finals.
Sorry StlVUFan, I will not be able to make the drive this year. I'll be watching on ESPNU.
Vegas has Valpo as a 1 point favorite, but I think Butler has a lot more motivation and Kevin didn't show he was back to his normal self in the Loyola game. Therefore, my head tells me that Butler wins by 5. However, I have a rule of always picking Valpo over Butler, which I will not break:
Butler 61: Valpo 64
Quote from: staxawax on February 23, 2012, 07:59:40 PM
Quote from: historyman on February 23, 2012, 11:08:02 AM
(from another thread but I thought it fits better here)
The thing that no one has mentioned is that Butler won all of their games except 2 in their current winning streak at home in Hinkle. They still have not shot well from 3 range. The way they are winning is by gaining the momentum with physical play and athletic play down low from Kyle Marshall and Roosevelt Jones. Jones has not played this well all year. Marshall was hurt a good portion of the season.
The guard play of Nored, Stigall and others has been excellent in this winning streak but the Bulldogs are not shooting from 3 nearly as well as Broekhoff, Bogan, Edwards, Kenney and others. Butler was 2 for 11 from 3 against a weak UIC. I think the key will be how well the Valpo defense can stop Marshall and Jones under the basket and if they can challenge them physically and athletically under the basket for rebounds and putting on enough defensive pressure to make them miss under the basket. Our guard play and ball handling will have to be a lot better than the Crusaders have played lately. Butler has played excellent defense lately and if Valpo starts making mistakes like throwing bad passes or letting Buggs dribble into trouble or forcing things when caught in a move to the basket not knowing what they were going to do with the ball then Butler will get a big lead and not relinquish it.
On the other hand if Valpo can keep it close by playing some tough defense like Butler, play physically & athletically tough under the basket, make free throws, not make a lot of turnovers, hit those important 3 pointers near the end of the game to thwart Butler's momentum then Valpo can squeak out a win and send Butler to the #3 or #4 seed in the HL tourney which is also not at Hinkle this year except the first round game which they wouldn't lose at Valpo or Hinkle.
Wow, a headache trying to read this. Shorter sentences are your friend, historyman!
Offensively, Butler is finally playing an inside/out game. Pound it or drive it down low, then kick it out if need be. 3-point % hasn't really improved all that much, but Fromm and Hopkins are getting more consistent and Stigall is going to break out a good game someday. As far as defense goes, Butler has made the national finals two years in a row because of it's defense. They are playing that quality of defense now. So, the opponent or the sight makes little difference. A Butler win is like a shot across the bow of Valpo's boat. The real battle will be the league tourney finals.
Sorry StlVUFan, I will not be able to make the drive this year. I'll be watching on ESPNU.
Stax may have a point there historyman. 91 words...:o
:)
Quote from: staxawax on February 23, 2012, 07:59:40 PM
Wow, a headache trying to read this. Shorter sentences are your friend, historyman!
that's how we roll in the humanities ;) it took me a while to get used to it when i changed my major to history.
Are there tickets still available for this game? If so, should I order ahead or just show up? Thanks!
Quote from: zvillehaze on February 23, 2012, 09:45:03 PM
Are there tickets still available for this game? If so, should I order ahead or just show up? Thanks!
I would call the ticket office tomorrow, then order ahead, just to be safe. Since you're coming from out-of-town, would hate for you to drive all that way with gas being priced how it is this weekend to find out that you can't get a ticket.
There are still seats available upstairs.
http://www.etix.com/ticket/online/performanceSearch.jsp?performance_id=1566138&cobrand=valpo (http://www.etix.com/ticket/online/performanceSearch.jsp?performance_id=1566138&cobrand=valpo)
Up a ways, but it's not as big as Hinkle - so the views should still be pretty good.
Last year, last time I ordered, you could print them from home. So, if I were you, I'd buy them online and print them at home.
I don't have any reason to expect that you'd get _better_ tickets at the gate. But, I suppose there might be returns...
There appear to be 400-500 seats still available across the top 3 or4 rows of the mezzanine. I doubt that they will sell out between now and game time. On the other hand, the line is usually shorter at will call than the ticket office, which means less time screwing around once you enter the front door. I would suggest the latter.
Quote from: zvillehaze on February 23, 2012, 09:45:03 PM
Are there tickets still available for this game? If so, should I order ahead or just show up? Thanks!
Just checked. Lower level all gone but about 300 in the top rows. Still good viewing angles! ;) Wonder what the walk up might be. Is the weather any good??
Quote from: vu72 on February 24, 2012, 10:17:54 AM
Just checked. Lower level all gone but about 300 in the top rows. Still good viewing angles! ;) Wonder what the walk up might be. Is the weather any good??
Weather's a little on the lousy side. Wet snow falling this morning, an inch of melting slush. More forecast through the day, falling below freezing over night.
Since they were turning students away who requested advance tickets, I hope they somehow encourage them to come back, and help fill the place up with at-the-gate ticket distribution.
What is the capacity?
Surprised you haven't sold this game out, being senior night, and with all the implications!?
Quote from: Nildogg on February 24, 2012, 11:21:06 AM
What is the capacity?
Surprised you haven't sold this game out, being senior night, and with all the implications!?
Capacity is 5500. As for senior night, there is only one--a walk-on, so not a lot of buzz in that regard. By game time it probably will be a sellout if the weather holds up.
All of the scenarios are spelled out in the Horizon League release that came out Friday.
Butler can still be No. 2 even with a loss tonight.
Go to page 17 of this release:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/hln/sports/releases/2/release.pdf?1322839841 (http://s3.amazonaws.com/hln/sports/releases/2/release.pdf?1322839841)
Just checked the ticket situation and there are now 181 listed seats available, down from 204 about an hour and a half ago. Suppose there are a few more in EE or in the endzone added bleachers. Still, sounds like a sellout will occur.
Seth Davis picked us to win by 7.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/seth_davis/02/24/Weekend.Picks/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_wr_a3 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/seth_davis/02/24/Weekend.Picks/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_wr_a3)
Quote from: Nildogg on February 24, 2012, 11:21:06 AM
What is the capacity?
Surprised you haven't sold this game out, being senior night, and with all the implications!?
I could be wrong, but I'm guessing that not as many Butler fans are headed up I-65 as in the past. There doesn't seem to be as much buzz on the Butler board from people saying they are going to the game. Do you agree?
I guess we can consider it another dimension of the "Butler Effect." :)
Quote from: Valpo10 on February 24, 2012, 01:28:44 PMSeth Davis picked us to win by 7.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/seth_davis/02/24/Weekend.Picks/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_wr_a3 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/seth_davis/02/24/Weekend.Picks/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_wr_a3)
Reltimerpi (computer calculation) has it valpo 73-65 (I don't think it's _just_ as simple as "Valpo's RPI is better").
Sportsnetwork.com has it Valpo 72-68.
I think one set of Vegas odds has butler by 1.5, but I'm not always sure I get the sign right on those.
If anybody is in need of tickets I have two in section BB towards the top on the end that I am looking to sell, I cannot attend any longer and there are no refunds for these tickets.
Quote from: agibson on February 24, 2012, 02:47:21 PM
Quote from: Valpo10 on February 24, 2012, 01:28:44 PMSeth Davis picked us to win by 7.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/seth_davis/02/24/Weekend.Picks/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_wr_a3 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/seth_davis/02/24/Weekend.Picks/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_wr_a3)
Reltimerpi (computer calculation) has it valpo 73-65 (I don't think it's _just_ as simple as "Valpo's RPI is better").
Sportsnetwork.com has it Valpo 72-68.
I think one set of Vegas odds has butler by 1.5, but I'm not always sure I get the sign right on those.
Yes, the odds have moved from Valpo favored by 1.5 to Butler favored by 1.5, which I believe reflects views of the importance of the game to Butler as much as anything else.
Quote from: Valpo10 on February 24, 2012, 01:28:44 PMSeth Davis picked us to win by 7.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/seth_davis/02/24/Weekend.Picks/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_wr_a3 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/seth_davis/02/24/Weekend.Picks/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_wr_a3)
Seth is 2-10 in his last 12 Butler predictions
Quote from: Nildogg on February 24, 2012, 11:21:06 AMSurprised you haven't sold this game out, being senior night, and with all the implications!?
This game has no implications for Valpo so I'm not sure what you are talking about here.
ee, I would say season sweep of Butler, and potentially knocking them out of the double-bye. Though I'm reading here that Butler might still be able to get that #2 seed, even if we win, tonight.
That was start to finish domination! Congrats to the guys for finishing strong in a game that meant nothing. Here's to hoping Matt Kenney's shoulder is okay.
You might call this somewhat of a "statement game". We have had some difficulties in conference recently, but
Bryce has them playing up, together, it's just a great moment for these guys. They have come together through a
lot this season. And finished their regular season well tonight. Now to focus on the next prize! Congrats Crusaders,
well done!! :thumbsup:
Big win - Valpo!
Solid turnout in the ARC; maybe not quite sold-out, but awfully close. A good lot of Butler fans, maybe 100 students together, and plenty of other sprinkled around. With fairly loud cheerleaders, etc. As I left the ARC two busloads of Butler fans (must have been more buses somewhere? one of those was at least 50% 40+ year olds) were getting ready for the long trip back to Indy.
Great to see KVW put up big numbers, and such balanced scoring. Fantastic that the game was never close (OK, when it got to within six, I started to wonder a little...). Great that Shelton and Stegelman both got in.
If there's a downside, it's that Broekhoff didn't do himself many favors, with six points, in the POY voting. But, the defense was pretty intent on him - he had to work _hard_ for some pretty lousy shots. I'm not too worried about whether _he_ can bring it in the tournament, so it was great to have KVW put up numbers, and to balance the rest.
Go Valpo! Don't get too rusty in seven days off!
And, Hank - the views from EE aren't bad! Might have to try it again sometime. We'll see where they put me for the semifinals. It pays to not sit too far up. Still, couldn't read the fight song lyrics; even heard a couple of people singing it!
Just got back from the unofficial Valpo Triangle viewing party! We had a great time and count it pure pleasure to beat Butler, see such a fun atmosphere, and hear our school's name on national TV! I hope that this type of success and atmosphere will get the students and fans coming back on a regular basis.
Really could have been even more dominating with less turnovers and more shots down the well, but it stayed interesting throughout. Love love LOVE it!
So when nildogg said the "Butler train was coming", who did he think they were playing? Purdue? Stanford? ;)
A solid game for sure and to think, our best player only had 6 points!! Nothing miraculous about the win, didn't shoot lights out or anything, just a solid game all around.
http://sectionee.blogspot.com/2012/02/game-wrap-up-sending-message.html (http://sectionee.blogspot.com/2012/02/game-wrap-up-sending-message.html)
Nice win, great student section. 2 more to go
It was a good, balanced game tonight. Yes, Ryan was far from his usual double-double, but when the defense was focused on him all night, and not giving him the room to feel his shot, he wasn't going to get his usual points. In no way does tonight's point total affect his opportunity for the HL Player of the Year award. One tough game like this one should make him lose the POY.
Now we just need to rest up, and get ready for next week.
I just saw the highlights of the game on the LA version of Sportscenter. Anyone know when we picked a center by the name of "Keith" Van Wijk? Yes, Neil Everett called him Keith instead of Kevin. Still good to see Valpo in ESPN highlights, (channeling my inner Cris Carter), Neil.."C'mon Man!!"
I absolutely loved how I did not have any worries in watching this game. I highly doubt this type of point differential will happen in either of our tournament games, so I will enjoy it while I can!
I just love the Valpo atmosphere. Fans are great and it creates an inviting place for our opponents to be gracious. The place was still packed 20 minutes after the game for some thank you and good bye speeches. Bruce did excellent. Well spoken and seemed comfortable.
Can you see the headlines?
Valpo - league champs
Ryan - POY
Bryce - COY
:thumbsup:
This may be the only game when Buggs puts up more points than Rowdy. The stats don't reflect the number of times that Rowdy got his hand on a rebound and pushed it out of the hands of a Butler player.
Does anyone have a report on Matt's injury?
Towards the end of the game with Butler making the run a rebound bounces out about 12 feet, Rowdy and two Butler players go for the rebound and Rowdy tips the ball to Kevin standing under the basket for the easy put back. HUGE play that will not be in the scorebook.
Statement game. I DVRed the game and watched it late. It would have been a great game to attend. The atmosphere looked great.
Congradulations to all.
Lowposter
Quote from: FWalum on February 25, 2012, 07:11:04 AMTowards the end of the game with Butler making the run a rebound bounces out about 12 feet, Rowdy and two Butler players go for the rebound and Rowdy tips the ball to Kevin standing under the basket for the easy put back. HUGE play that will not be in the scorebook.
I asked about his arm on Twitter and he said "it is perfectly fine I'll be ready to go". I believe him.
Quote from: MattCarter on February 25, 2012, 07:54:53 AM
Quote from: FWalum on February 25, 2012, 07:11:04 AMTowards the end of the game with Butler making the run a rebound bounces out about 12 feet, Rowdy and two Butler players go for the rebound and Rowdy tips the ball to Kevin standing under the basket for the easy put back. HUGE play that will not be in the scorebook.
I asked about his arm on Twitter and he said "it is perfectly fine I'll be ready to go". I believe him.
I presume that you're reporting about Kenney, not Rowdy...
Valpo went from being very beatable as a #1 to the team to beat in the Horizon League.
Excellent job fellas. Now bring home the tournament hardware.
Quote from: valporun on February 25, 2012, 12:29:07 AM
I just saw the highlights of the game on the LA version of Sportscenter. Anyone know when we picked a center by the name of "Keith" Van Wijk? Yes, Neil Everett called him Keith instead of Kevin. Still good to see Valpo in ESPN highlights, (channeling my inner Cris Carter), Neil.."C'mon Man!!"
Just saw the report on Sports Center. 'Keith' nearly loses the ball and passes to Broekhoff, If you remember, it was Broekhoff who nearly lost the ball and passes to Van Wijk. Reporter gets the two mixed up!
Earlier in the season ESPN called KVW "Van Broekhoff". Now that'd be a player to recon with!
Quote from: sectionee on February 25, 2012, 08:42:51 AM
Earlier in the season ESPN called KVW "Van Broekhoff". Now that'd be a player to recon with!
That is priceless and yes that player would be a beast of an inside outside player!
By the way, Buggs stepped up to line and knocked em down. fT shooting is less stressful this year. Congrats on the HL Championhsip and 3 in a row over Butler.
Quote from: humbleopinion on February 25, 2012, 07:59:23 AMQuote from: MattCarter on February 25, 2012, 07:54:53 AMQuote from: FWalum on February 25, 2012, 07:11:04 AMTowards the end of the game with Butler making the run a rebound bounces out about 12 feet, Rowdy and two Butler players go for the rebound and Rowdy tips the ball to Kevin standing under the basket for the easy put back. HUGE play that will not be in the scorebook.
I asked about his arm on Twitter and he said "it is perfectly fine I'll be ready to go". I believe him.
I presume that you're reporting about Kenney, not Rowdy...
yes. sorry
Will this game be available on HLN? Currently, I don't see it posted on either HLN or ESPN3. Sounds like a heckuva game, wish I would have known that it was on ESPNU.
Now, hopefully we don't have to play BU again in the tournament. Very difficult to beat a team like Butler three times in a season.
Quote from: rink on February 25, 2012, 12:41:00 PM
Very difficult to beat a team like Butler three times in a season.
Not if you're better than them! ;)
New NWI Times article (noon today):
Van Wijk shines in VU's regular-season finale
http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/basketball/college/van-wijk-shines-in-vu-s-regular-season-finale/article_370c2224-21e9-532b-9f4a-62292baa59bd.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/basketball/college/van-wijk-shines-in-vu-s-regular-season-finale/article_370c2224-21e9-532b-9f4a-62292baa59bd.html)
i watched the game from my little hole in the ground up here in dak-land. and it was perhaps the most glorious two hours i've ever spent watching espn from underground. and i was highly amused when they called kvw "keith."
so proud of the guys and the way they came to play last night. i kept hoping that we'd find the gas pedal and run them out of the gym, but the game played out well regardless. we looked SO much better than we did tuesday against loyola. this was a great way to end the regular season, and i really hope we can harness this and bring it back next weekend. SO SO SO SO SO SO pumped for next weekend and the chance to watch the guys play again!!!!! :D :D
hopefully kenney's shoulder wasn't hurt too badly - it looked like he was barely moving his arm last night after he finally got back up and went to the bench.
Valpo's calling it a sell-out at 5,237. Last year's sell-out when Butler visited was 5,432. Missouri State was 5,328 (not sure if they called that one a sell-out).
The capacity of the arc might be 5500, but there aren't that many actual seats. So, a sellout can mean all the seats were sold, with student tickets/standing room accounting for others.
one thing i noticed and was happy to see - the students didn't rush the court after the win. at least not that i saw on tv. maybe they waited until after the tv broadcast had ended?
There were ropes holding them back, and they had been urged to stay in their seats for the awarding of the trophy. The team went to the fans instead of the fans coming to the team.
Quote from: humbleopinion on February 26, 2012, 09:16:10 AM
There were ropes holding them back, and they had been urged to stay in their seats for the awarding of the trophy. The team went to the fans instead of the fans coming to the team.
gotcha. at least we were spared the embarrassment of another needless court-rushing.
Quote from: vuweathernerd on February 26, 2012, 08:50:08 AMone thing i noticed and was happy to see - the students didn't rush the court after the win. at least not that i saw on tv. maybe they waited until after the tv broadcast had ended?
why would that be bad? Don't we want the students to be excited about their team and be more involved? As long as they are not hurting anyone / damaging property, obviously...
isn't the footage/ photos from the students on the court after last years bracketbuster still in promos / highlights?
I've heard said that the students didn't rush the floor because of it being Senior Night, and the significance of this night to Nick. Yes, the same could have been said for Nathan, but he'd only been on the team a short time, compared to Nick's four years. I certainly would not have had issue with the students storming the court, but I agree with how they handled it. Also, it seems like a smart decision to rope off the baselines, though that doesn't always stop the students either.
I have been fumbling around the thought in my head though...the ONLY way that schools/conferences could possibly avoid the whole court storming "event" is to have a floor like you see at Williams Arena at University of Minnesota, where it is elevated about 5 feet up from the base of the foundation for the seating area. It would take students a lot more time to rush after climbing onto the court that they would eventually give up on the whole idea.
Quote from: letsgovu on February 26, 2012, 09:39:25 AM
Quote from: vuweathernerd on February 26, 2012, 08:50:08 AMone thing i noticed and was happy to see - the students didn't rush the court after the win. at least not that i saw on tv. maybe they waited until after the tv broadcast had ended?
why would that be bad? Don't we want the students to be excited about their team and be more involved? As long as they are not hurting anyone / damaging property, obviously...
isn't the footage/ photos from the students on the court after last years bracketbuster still in promos / highlights?
i'm all for getting the students excited. hell, those were some of the most fun times i had at basketball games. but there are right and wrong times to rush the court. beating butler for the first time in a long time, while they're in the midst of a pair of title game runs is one thing. winning the conference title (albeit against a team like loyola) is acceptable. beating a ranked team on our floor is definitely reason for doing so. but the conference leader beating butler with nothing more on the line on our end, and for the third straight time, is not a valid reason to rush the floor.
Quote from: letsgovu on February 26, 2012, 09:39:25 AM
Quote from: vuweathernerd on February 26, 2012, 08:50:08 AMone thing i noticed and was happy to see - the students didn't rush the court after the win. at least not that i saw on tv. maybe they waited until after the tv broadcast had ended?
why would that be bad? Don't we want the students to be excited about their team and be more involved? As long as they are not hurting anyone / damaging property, obviously...
isn't the footage/ photos from the students on the court after last years bracketbuster still in promos / highlights?
Once the students were on the floor celebrating it would have been difficult, if not impossible, to "reassemble" everyone in order to give our senior players and managers their proper due on senior night. If not for that, I would agree with your point.
I'll repeat an earlier sentiment that a first place team beating just about anyone is not worthy of a court storming. CS-ing should be reserved when some kind of under dog has a big win (upset of a highly-ranked team, snapping long overall or team-specific losing streak, exciting buzzer-beater finish, etc.)
The only "real" argument I heard from friends who wanted to rush out on Friday was because it's a rivalry game. Some even said it would be fine if Butler fans rushed if they had won. :crazy: Sure it's a rivalry, at least on our end, but that does not warrant court storming for every game.
It's like how the audience gives a standing ovation at every theatrical play or recital as common courtesy. An SO used to be for exemplary performances only and not just something we always do to be nice. That's what I think of when I hear people taking about wanting to storm the court for situations like Friday where I don't think it's warranted. Save it for a time when it's truly something to celebrate, not just "yay, we beat a team we used to not beat as much who we call one of our rivals"
Rambling done. Carry on.
Quote from: KL31NY on February 26, 2012, 01:29:46 PMSure it's a rivalry, at least on our end, but that does not warrant court storming for every game.
Save it for a time when it's truly something to celebrate, not just "yay, we beat a team we used to not beat as much who we call one of our rivals"
I know that the Butler people use to say that you can't call this a rivalry if one team wins every time, but I think we can now officially call it a rivalry because we have won the last three in a row including on their floor, knocked them from the 2 seed down to the 5 and are their oldest competitor in the conference. If they don't think this is a rivalry now then I think they are the ones kidding themselves.
That being said, I am glad we didn't storm the court on Friday.
I'll agree with that
Butler will be a preseason Top 10 team next year.
The team will be more dominant than the 09-10 that went 18-0.
Coming in is an all-SEC guard and a another top 50 small forward who is going to win Mr Basketball. He's the best shooter in the country, hands down.
This is really the last year for about 3 years where there was a reasonable chance of a team knocking Butler off.
Thanks for the warning, dawgsfan. It's a good thing for Valpo that they make teams play out the schedule rather than simply letting polls decide winners.
Absolutely no way that Butler goes 18-0 next year. There is pride in your team, then there is just being blind. We return EVERY single player that won the title this year. Your team has shown great weakness this year, so you can add all the people you want, but 2 people won't make you undefeated...
No way we are a top 10 team next year, people base that off of the previous year's success and we are off the radar unless something miraculous happens at the end of the season.
I am optimistic that we'll play at the level of a top 25 team though - with our main problem being the lack of an outside threat - and adding one if not two of the best shooters in the country.
That, and we'll have some interesting options at the point guard position, which at times has been a problem, despite the leadership and experience of Nored.
I don't think 18-0 is possible - it is so rare; but this team may have more pieces to the puzzle than that team, which is what I think he meant.
My hat is off to Valpo for getting it done (so far) this year, but you have to take a look around and realize that the conference is not any good this year, and its as even of a playing field as there has been in years. Even if you are returning everyone, and bringing in some additional pieces, its going to be a much different year next year with talent and experience around the league. It will be interesting to see what Capobianco can do... transfers are always wildcards when they have been unproven at another school.
Quote from: dawgsfan on February 26, 2012, 04:11:04 PM
Butler will be a preseason Top 10 team next year.
The team will be more dominant than the 09-10 that went 18-0.
Coming in is an all-SEC guard and a another top 50 small forward who is going to win Mr Basketball. He's the best shooter in the country, hands down.
This is really the last year for about 3 years where there was a reasonable chance of a team knocking Butler off.
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is hysterical! Thanks for making my day and solidifying my feeling that Butler fans are delusional!! Sure the SEC kid will be good and to say a freshman, no matter how good, will be the difference, is truly funny. Next, the idea that the only reason we won the conference is that it is so bad (Nildogg) is sour grapes at its worst. The Horizon is ranked 12th right now in the Sagarin's. Just awful, don't you think?
We bring everyone back. Who else besides the 5th seed Butler(all most everyone) does that? CSU? Nope. Milwaukee? Nope. YSU? Nope. Should I go on??
Ryan Broekhoff is the best player in the league. Guess what? He will be again next year, just before he is drafted in the NBA. Transfers take time to adjust, just ask Will Bogan and Ben Boggs, oh wait, they both be back NEXT year. Hmmmm, adding another banger and a phenom 6'11" freakish athlete sure will hurt us. Makes all the sense in the world why Butler will be better (top 10) while I think we will be only a top 25!
Thanks for the laugh. Don't get me started... ;D
Quote from: dawgsfan on February 26, 2012, 04:11:04 PM
Butler will be a preseason Top 10 team next year.
The team will be more dominant than the 09-10 that went 18-0.
Coming in is an all-SEC guard and a another top 50 small forward who is going to win Mr Basketball. He's the best shooter in the country, hands down.
This is really the last year for about 3 years where there was a reasonable chance of a team knocking Butler off.
Thanks for making my evening dawgsfan. I almost spit up laughing when I read this. No doubt Butler will be a much better team next year, but NONE of those things are going to happen.
Quote from: staxawax on February 26, 2012, 09:15:29 PM
Quote from: dawgsfan on February 26, 2012, 04:11:04 PM
Butler will be a preseason Top 10 team next year.
The team will be more dominant than the 09-10 that went 18-0.
Coming in is an all-SEC guard and a another top 50 small forward who is going to win Mr Basketball. He's the best shooter in the country, hands down.
This is really the last year for about 3 years where there was a reasonable chance of a team knocking Butler off.
Thanks for making my evening dawgsfan. I almost spit up laughing when I read this. No doubt Butler will be a much better team next year, but NONE of those things are going to happen.
Phew! And here I thought all the dawg fans were back on drugs again! ;)
Funny thing, the same exact post was on the Wright State board by "UdFlyerandButlerFan". Coincidence? I don't think so.
http://raiderroundball.yuku.com/topic/2827/Butler-s-dominance#.T0r7GocgfTA (http://raiderroundball.yuku.com/topic/2827/Butler-s-dominance#.T0r7GocgfTA)
Obviously the facts are a little off. Rivals has Kellen Dunham ranked 141 (that's 91 spots from being a top 50 recruit). He has zero chance of winning Mr. Basketball. Rotnei Clarke was an honorable mention all-sec guard. Calling him an all-sec guard is a bit misleading.
Ok, yea Obviously your facts are a little off...
Rotnei is a stud, and yes, he was ALL-SEC (2nd team): http://www.helena-arkansas.com/sports/x698034493/Rotnei-Clarke-makes-All-SEC-second-team (http://www.helena-arkansas.com/sports/x698034493/Rotnei-Clarke-makes-All-SEC-second-team)
I like the looks of this, and more importantly the results he brought at Arkansas:
http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=2500001 (http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=2500001)
And Kellen Dunham is absolutely a legitimate Mr. Basketball candidate, and 1 of 3 that are fighting for the honor, if its not a guarantee for an IU recruit. As for rankings, I think they are all pretty much a joke; regardless, what I hear is that Rivals lost all of their recruiting people to ESPN and other services, so their rankings have become even less reliable. Maybe you should look at ESPN? (yes top 100) Most importantly, Kellen is being called the best pure shooter of this years class; yes, thats in the nation. :)
That, my friends is instant offense, and the answer to all of our problems.
He is ranked behind several other kids on the ESPN list of 2012 recruits from IN, including the top ranked shooting guard in the nation (his position). Just wondering why you think your guy has a good shot at Mr. BB? For the record I don't know anything about these players and have no axe to grind. In fact I think it would be great for the HL for one of it's teams to land IN's Mr. BB.
These guys have Dunham ranked 8th. Still, pretty impressive:
http://www.btownbanners.com/2012-indiana-high-school-player-rankings/ (http://www.btownbanners.com/2012-indiana-high-school-player-rankings/)
I do not know if Dunham will win Mr BB but he might. He leads the state in scoring and there will be a vote split between Gary Harris, Yogi Farrell, Glenn Robinson and Dunham. My guess is it will be one of the first two but Dunham is definitely in the conversation.
Here a note on Clarke's transfer. He averaged 15 in the SEC. Think about Bogan's effect here and he averaged much less at Ole Miss
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog/_/name/katz_andy/id/6689307 (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog/_/name/katz_andy/id/6689307)
Quote from: chef on February 27, 2012, 12:21:26 AM
Question: How can a team be more dominant than 18-0?
Quote from: wh on February 27, 2012, 07:30:22 AM
He is ranked behind several other kids on the ESPN list of 2012 recruits from IN, including the top ranked shooting guard in the nation (his position). Just wondering why you think your guy has a good shot at Mr. BB? For the record I don't know anything about these players and have no axe to grind. In fact I think it would be great for the HL for one of it's teams to land IN's Mr. BB.
Here's a recent analysis of the Mr. Basketball race. http://blogs.indystar.com/recruitingcentral/2012/02/10/taking-a-deeper-look-at-the-mr-basketball-race/ (http://blogs.indystar.com/recruitingcentral/2012/02/10/taking-a-deeper-look-at-the-mr-basketball-race/) It's from the Indianapolis Star, so it probably has some central Indiana bias. FWIW, I'd be very surprised if Dunham won ... this is still an IU dominated state and that gives any kid going to IU (or any Big Ten school to a lesser extent) a voting bump.
On a side note, you guys should be enjoying this season instead of engaging in these debates. Leave the "wait until next" year talk to us! ;)
Valpo89, the only answer I can think of is to be a dominant 18-0 instead of simply 18-0, to surprise people in perfection even when everyone expects you to win every game. See the 2010-11 Green Bay Phoenix women's basketball team for a recent HL example.
Dunham is not in the Mr Basketball race. I have it from a source that should know. It's expected to be a two horse race between Harris and Farrell, both rated significantly higher than Dunham on every service, including ESPN.
Quote from: chef on February 27, 2012, 12:21:26 AM
Obviously the facts are a little off. Rivals has Kellen Dunham ranked 141 (that's 91 spots from being a top 50 recruit). He has zero chance of winning Mr. Basketball. Rotnei Clarke was an honorable mention all-sec guard. Calling him an all-sec guard is a bit misleading.
Clarke was 2nd All-SEC per the SEC, but honorable mention per the AP. The SEC included 8 or 9 guys on the first and second "teams", while the AP went with the more commonly used (and Naismith approved) five.
Quote from: zvillehaze on February 27, 2012, 09:00:24 AMOn a side note, you guys should be enjoying this season instead of engaging in these debates. Leave the "wait until next" year talk to us! ;)
Amen, zvillehaze.
The only other way that 18-0 could look very dominant is if Butler won every game by 20-30 points. It would get very boring for the 9 teams they beat, but that's the only way they could be successfully dominant at 18-0, instead of simply 18-0 because the other teams gave Butler a run, but didn't have the gas left in the final 4 minutes of each game.
Quote from: chef on February 27, 2012, 09:04:52 AM
Dunham is not in the Mr Basketball race. I have it from a source that should know. It's expected to be a two horse race between Harris and Farrell, both rated significantly higher than Dunham on every service, including ESPN.
Love the "source" quote. Why do we even bother now?
Dunham is in the race. He will be a 50/50 IF his Pendleton Heights Arabians win the state 4A title. HSE/North Central play tomorrow night, so Gary Harris' team might be watching the rest of the tournament. Harris is the stud athlete, but going out of state to play college may not sit well with the voters. Ferrell's only chance is IU bias....... he plays for a 2A private school that has a shot at winning the 2A title. Both PHHS and Ferrell's Park-Tudor teams have beaten North Central. HSE split with North Central, PHHS lost twice to HSE, the 1st with 3 starters out and the 2nd in OT in the Hall-of-Fame tourney. Winning state goes a long way....... look at Luke Zeller. His half-court game winner for a state title helped him beat out Josh McRoberts and Dominic James..... 2 players that were CLEARLY better than Zeller in high school.
Quote from: chef on February 27, 2012, 09:04:52 AM
Dunham is not in the Mr Basketball race. I have it from a source that should know. It's expected to be a two horse race between Harris and Farrell, both rated significantly higher than Dunham on every service, including ESPN.
I'd also be interested in that source and how "they know" ... especially since ballots aren't due for weeks.
I stated earlier that Dunham would have to overcome several "biases" to win over Harris or Ferrell, but if he's not even in the race, I'd have to question the credentials of the voters. Dunham is averaging 30+ ppg for the #2 team in the state which has played a slate of 4A teams. He isn't Steve Hendershot at Morgan Twp., Kirk Manns at North Judson or Ricky Hise at Kouts who put up big numbers against small schools.
If you choose to rely on ESPN rankings, then you're missing the boat. Those are recruiting rankings based upon college potential and really have nothing to do with what a player does or doesn't accomplish in high school. I would hope that Mr. Basketball would be based on something more than that, but I've been disappointed before.
End of the day, Harris is a worthy winner of the award. Ferrell winning would just prove that Mr. Basketball = best player attending IU. In any case, Butler is excited to have Kellen as a Bulldog, whether anyone else appreciates him or not.
Call me crazy, but I wouldn't be surprised if the source was Gary Donna, publisher of Hoosier Basketball Magazine. He goes to a lot of VU games because he is close with Matt Kenney's family.
I was at the game Friday night. Drove in from Iowa.
I don't know that much about basketball. I rarely see college games in person. Maybe I've been to 3 or 4 of them in the last 10 years.
My two observations from the game are (1) Broekhoff may not have scored much, but I don't think we would have won without him. His rebounding effort and overall defensive play was --if I can use this word -- superb. FWAlum has mentioned his tip of a rebound that Van Wijk caught and laid in for a bucket. Great play. The one that really stands out for me, though, occurred in the second half. At that point Butler had cut the lead to 9 (I think) and was poised to seize momentum. Broekhoff came out of nowhere to block a close-in shot that almost certainly would have gone in. It was a sensational play. I thought he was very wise in his shot selection, too, choosing not to take awkward shots (Edwards: please take note) or force the action. (2) Butler's big guys were a load to handle. I breathed a sigh of relief every time Khyle Marshall went out of the game. If Butler gets a decent outside shooter or two for next year -- and I doubt Brad Stevens has overlooked this need -- then Butler will be one tough customer in '12-13. Of course, so will we.
Paul
ps this was my second ever ARC game and I still think it is a great atmosphere for a college basketball game. I thought everything, from the pep band to the Crusaderettes to the video board to the Valpo mascot, was really good, and D-1 worthy.
Quote from: vu72 on February 26, 2012, 09:09:06 PMHmmmm, adding another banger and a phenom 6'11" freakish athlete sure will hurt us.
72 nailed this. Valpo will be favorites next year just based on returning all their players. But the addition of Capobianco will allow Valpo to compete beyond the Horizon. I've heard Crean lament the loss of "the Vanilla Gorilla" and suggest that IU would be significantly better this year if they hadn't been forced to rely on freshmen.
Capo is a tireless worker and I'm sure just his presence in practice this year has elevated the play of all of Valpo's big men. For those who haven't seen him play, a good comparison for Capo is Kevin Love with a little better range.
Capobianco averaged 2.3 and 1.0 points during his two years at IU, both of which were 20-loss seasons for the Hoosiers.
Paul
Quote from: EddieCabot on February 27, 2012, 09:23:50 PM
Quote from: vu72 on February 26, 2012, 09:09:06 PMHmmmm, adding another banger and a phenom 6'11" freakish athlete sure will hurt us.
72 nailed this. Valpo will be favorites next year just based on returning all their players. But the addition of Capobianco will allow Valpo to compete beyond the Horizon. I've heard Crean lament the loss of "the Vanilla Gorilla" and suggest that IU would be significantly better this year if they hadn't been forced to rely on freshmen.
Capo is a tireless worker and I'm sure just his presence in practice this year has elevated the play of all of Valpo's big men. For those who haven't seen him play, a good comparison for Capo is Kevin Love with a little better range.
Eddie, my man - long time no scarcasm! It's great to have you back. You've really been missed.
As someone that's voted for the Mr. Basketball award numerous times, I'd admit the system is flawed. This is precisely why my guy could say weeks ago that he feels it will be either Harris or Ferrell. 95 percent of the voters will not see all of the top players in the state play. Almost every year, the Mr. Basketball winner is the highest rated player in the state. Luke Zeller was an exception, but geography was a big part of that, along with the way the state title game played out. I believe 5 of the last 6 Mr. Basketball winners were McDonalds All-Americans. Harris and Ferrell are McDonalds All-Americans, Dunham is not. This does not mean Dunham isn't having as outstanding a season as the other two. It also doesn't mean he won't get more votes if Pendleton Heights wins the state title and he plays huge in that game. The bottom line is when you have 300 voters around the state the couldn't pick the guy they're voting for out of a lineup, reputation carries the most weight.
Quote from: chef on February 27, 2012, 11:39:35 PM
As someone that's voted for the Mr. Basketball award numerous times, I'd admit the system is flawed. This is precisely why my guy could say weeks ago that he feels it will be either Harris or Ferrell. 95 percent of the voters will not see all of the top players in the state play. Almost every year, the Mr. Basketball winner is the highest rated player in the state. Luke Zeller was an exception, but geography was a big part of that, along with the way the state title game played out. I believe 5 of the last 6 Mr. Basketball winners were McDonalds All-Americans. Harris and Ferrell are McDonalds All-Americans, Dunham is not. This does not mean Dunham isn't having as outstanding a season as the other two. It also doesn't mean he won't get more votes if Pendleton Heights wins the state title and he plays huge in that game. The bottom line is when you have 300 voters around the state the couldn't pick the guy they're voting for out of a lineup, reputation carries the most weight.
I'd say he's pretty much right on the money here. There are exceptions of course, but it really comes down to Ferrell or Harris, with Ferrell getting the nod because he stayed in state. I don't know if it's so much the IU bias, as the in state bias. That being said, Dunham is picking up steam here in the Indianapolis area. It could get interesting, but in the end the only way Dunham wins is if he gets a state title and does so in amazing fashion.
My guess...Ferrell
Quote from: dawgsfan on February 26, 2012, 04:11:04 PM
Butler will be a preseason Top 10 team next year.
The team will be more dominant than the 09-10 that went 18-0.
Coming in is an all-SEC guard and a another top 50 small forward who is going to win Mr Basketball. He's the best shooter in the country, hands down.
This is really the last year for about 3 years where there was a reasonable chance of a team knocking Butler off.
Interesting to see that even some Butler posters have toned down the rhetoric of these "absolute" type of statements "He's the best shooter in the country, hands down" and "Butler will be a preseason Top 10 team next year". I don't think there is any doubt that Butler has some very good talent coming in to the program with Rotnei Clarke and Kellen Dunham. Do they make Butler a more complete team by filling the programs need for outside shooting? Clarke has proven his worth in the SEC, something that Dunham should be able to do in the Horizon if not next year then certainly in the future.
Valpo also fills some program needs with the addition of Capobianco and Fernandez. It was very evident when VanWijk was out of games or not 100% that our offense became very one dimensional and the new bigs should help remedy that depth problem.
The real challenge then falls to the coaches. Perhaps Butler's biggest adjustment may occur on defense when they lose two time defensive player of the year Nored. Does Clarke play the point? Will Dunham be ready to contribute as a starter or does he come in off the bench and if he starts what position will he play and who's spot will he take? Will the addition of an outside threat open things up for Smith so that he can reach his expected potential? I think that this year Valpo is winning because of chemistry and not necessarily on talent/athleticism. Will the addition of another big like Capobianco change that chemistry? If we add that big to the mix and Broekhoff moves to the 3 what affect might that have on both the offensive and defensive ends of the floor. Jay Harris was one of the highest rated recruits VU has had in recent years, he will be a junior next year, does the coaching staff effectively challenge him to get stronger and improve defensively so we can finally get him on the floor in a starting spot? Does Buggs continue to improve his free throw percentage and continue to be come more of a scoring threat?
All of these questions and no absolutes. It really comes down to players and coaches putting things together to form a cohesive unit. I think the league will be up for grabs again next year with two teams that could possibly get an at large bid.
Quote from: milanmiracle on February 28, 2012, 11:11:29 AM
Quote from: chef on February 27, 2012, 11:39:35 PM
As someone that's voted for the Mr. Basketball award numerous times, I'd admit the system is flawed. This is precisely why my guy could say weeks ago that he feels it will be either Harris or Ferrell. 95 percent of the voters will not see all of the top players in the state play. Almost every year, the Mr. Basketball winner is the highest rated player in the state. Luke Zeller was an exception, but geography was a big part of that, along with the way the state title game played out. I believe 5 of the last 6 Mr. Basketball winners were McDonalds All-Americans. Harris and Ferrell are McDonalds All-Americans, Dunham is not. This does not mean Dunham isn't having as outstanding a season as the other two. It also doesn't mean he won't get more votes if Pendleton Heights wins the state title and he plays huge in that game. The bottom line is when you have 300 voters around the state the couldn't pick the guy they're voting for out of a lineup, reputation carries the most weight.
I'd say he's pretty much right on the money here. There are exceptions of course, but it really comes down to Ferrell or Harris, with Ferrell getting the nod because he stayed in state. I don't know if it's so much the IU bias, as the in state bias. That being said, Dunham is picking up steam here in the Indianapolis area. It could get interesting, but in the end the only way Dunham wins is if he gets a state title and does so in amazing fashion.
My guess...Ferrell
Harris with 35 points, 22 in the 4th quarter and game-winning three at the buzzer to beat North Central. That'll leave a mark.
Quote from: FWalum on February 28, 2012, 07:42:51 PMInteresting to see that even some Butler posters have toned down the rhetoric of these "absolute" type of statements "He's the best shooter in the country, hands down" and "Butler will be a preseason Top 10 team next year". I don't think there is any doubt that Butler has some very good talent coming in to the program with Rotnei Clarke and Kellen Dunham. Do they make Butler a more complete team by filling the programs need for outside shooting? Clarke has proven his worth in the SEC, something that Dunham should be able to do in the Horizon if not next year then certainly in the future.
Just a side note. Clarke had surgery on his foot for a bone issue. Two bones were fusing together and he had them surgically seperated. Rotnei himself said he would be ready to go by summer. He was in a wheel chair at the WSU/BU game tonight.
Quote from: zvillehaze on February 28, 2012, 09:15:39 PM
Quote from: milanmiracle on February 28, 2012, 11:11:29 AM
Quote from: chef on February 27, 2012, 11:39:35 PM
As someone that's voted for the Mr. Basketball award numerous times, I'd admit the system is flawed. This is precisely why my guy could say weeks ago that he feels it will be either Harris or Ferrell. 95 percent of the voters will not see all of the top players in the state play. Almost every year, the Mr. Basketball winner is the highest rated player in the state. Luke Zeller was an exception, but geography was a big part of that, along with the way the state title game played out. I believe 5 of the last 6 Mr. Basketball winners were McDonalds All-Americans. Harris and Ferrell are McDonalds All-Americans, Dunham is not. This does not mean Dunham isn't having as outstanding a season as the other two. It also doesn't mean he won't get more votes if Pendleton Heights wins the state title and he plays huge in that game. The bottom line is when you have 300 voters around the state the couldn't pick the guy they're voting for out of a lineup, reputation carries the most weight.
I'd say he's pretty much right on the money here. There are exceptions of course, but it really comes down to Ferrell or Harris, with Ferrell getting the nod because he stayed in state. I don't know if it's so much the IU bias, as the in state bias. That being said, Dunham is picking up steam here in the Indianapolis area. It could get interesting, but in the end the only way Dunham wins is if he gets a state title and does so in amazing fashion.
My guess...Ferrell
Harris with 35 points, 22 in the 4th quarter and game-winning three at the buzzer to beat North Central. That'll leave a mark.
Gary Harris 3 Pointer to Beat North Central -- 2/28/12 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8P0vXXFJg1M#ws) ... now that's how to rush a court, Valpo student section ;D
Yep. Watching the ending to that game was pretty amazing, even on replay. I suspect that doesn't hurt his chances of being Mr. Basketball.
Well, if that didnt cement Mr. Basketball, I dont know what it would take.
It is an outstanding senior class of Indiana High School talent.
lowposter
Quote from: lowposter on February 29, 2012, 03:40:42 PM
Well, if that didnt cement Mr. Basketball, I dont know what it would take.
It is an outstanding senior class of Indiana High School talent.
lowposter
I would absolutely agree with this. Every voter in the state can see "the play' on ESPN. That's exposure! It would take a quick out by HSE (maybe by Carmel?) and something amazing by Ferrell or Dunham to change anyone's minds.
Anyone but an IU recruit...